RV-Archive.digest.vol-mz
June 16, 2002 - June 24, 2002
> rollover bar....just had to adjust front/back position and
> mostly adjust the 'windscreen's' match to the top fwd
> fuselage. Laying on the bar gave me solid support while
> making the parting-cut.....which, shaking hands
> notwithstanding, went must fine with the kit's cutting wheel.
> Spend lots
> of time getting things lined up and each step clear in your
> mind....there's only one attempt!
>
> Best,
> David
>
>
> >--> RV8-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen"
> >
> >I'm making the initial cuts to my RV-8 canopy. I'm almost up to the
> >lines on the canopy that represent the factory planes. Things are
> >fitting well, but it's still about 3/8" from the rollover bar. Do I
> >keep cutting past the lines or am I at the point where everyone else
> >cut it in half "early"?
> >
> David Grebe
> RV-8 #80354...North Wales, PA
> Starting Finishing Kit
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Thanks. I'll be sure to watch the edge distance!!
Sorry yours cracked. Did you have to replace it, or were you able to
make due?
If you have electronic pictures handy, send 'em my way. Thanks!!
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 3:08 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Canopy cuttin'
>
>
>
> Well, having just cracked mine last week...
>
> As you trim, allow the edge of the rear half of the plexi to
> overlap the canopy frame. You may have to cut it in half to
> do this. It really doesn't matter if it is long here, since
> it will be covered by the skirt, and on the inside by
> finishing material. I left mine too short here, and the edge
> distance was too short. It survived the drilling, but when I
> pulled the "keeper" rivets in, every hole cracked. I had no
> problem with the other holes, where I had at least 1/2" from
> the hole to the edge of the plexi, but having only 1/4" is
> the recipe for a crack. The plans call for 5/16" from the
> edge to the center of the holes, I think this is too little.
> If this is not clear, I could send you a picture.
>
> John, RV8qb, Pagosa Springs, CO
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
> To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com; rv8-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Canopy cuttin'
>
>
>
> I'm making the initial cuts to my RV-8 canopy. I'm almost up
> to the lines on the canopy that represent the factory planes.
> Things are fitting well, but it's still about 3/8" from the
> rollover bar. Do I keep cutting past the lines or am I at
> the point where everyone else cut it in half "early"?
>
> Canopy cuttin' in Carolina,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Canopy cuttin' |
>
>But the quesiton was, when is the bubble cut in half?
Fit the plexiglass after **EVERYTHING** else is complete. Fitting glass
earlier just makes life harder for you.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed two
100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will be wired
to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps according to
my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14 ga into and out
of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a bundle. But I
may have erred in the separate wiring out in the wings going to the lights.
I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp draws
7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15 amps?
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
No. You only size the wire to the current that particular piece of wire
will draw. For example, say you have a wire going from your switch to the
circuit breaker. That wire is only 2 feet long, and will carry 15 amps.
Being that this particular piece of wire is carrying 15 amps only 2 feet, it
doesn't have to be sized as if it was carrying it 20 feet. However, it
can't hurt to have too large of wire going through the hole thing. If you
went with 16 guage wire for everything to the wings you would be fine. I
had a lengthy discussion with 'lectric Bob about this a couple of years ago
and then it finally made sense to me!
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wiring question
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed two
> 100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will be
wired
> to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps according
to
> my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14 ga into and
out
> of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a bundle. But
I
> may have erred in the separate wiring out in the wings going to the
lights.
> I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp
draws
> 7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15 amps?
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
Hello Doug,
Yes, you should really have 14 guage out to each light at the wing tips.
Remember that the circuit breaker is there to protect the wire, thus it
should be rated for the smallest wire in the circuit. If you have a
short out in the wingtip, it could draw the entire 15 amps through the
16 gauge wire and potentially get to hot and melt the insulation. I
don't have my chart handy, but 15 amps in a bundled 16 gauge wire is
likely beyond what even tefzel is rated for. Perhaps you could put two
breakers in and switch them seperatly as landing as taxi lights?
Todd Houg
St. Francis, MN
Fuselage kit arrived last week!
-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Weiler [SMTP:dougweil(at)pressenter.com]
Subject: RV-List: Wiring question
Fellow Listers:
For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed
two
100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will be
wired
to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps
according to
my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14 ga into and
out
of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a bundle.
But I
may have erred in the separate wiring out in the wings going to the
lights.
I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp
draws
7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15 amps?
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
Just remember that all wires after your CB must be sized to
handle the trip current of the breaker. If they aren't, then
the wire can become the 'fuse' protecting any downstream
load (another way of saying 'fire').
Charlie
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> No. You only size the wire to the current that particular piece of wire
> will draw. For example, say you have a wire going from your switch to the
> circuit breaker. That wire is only 2 feet long, and will carry 15 amps.
> Being that this particular piece of wire is carrying 15 amps only 2 feet, it
> doesn't have to be sized as if it was carrying it 20 feet. However, it
> can't hurt to have too large of wire going through the hole thing. If you
> went with 16 guage wire for everything to the wings you would be fine. I
> had a lengthy discussion with 'lectric Bob about this a couple of years ago
> and then it finally made sense to me!
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
> To: "RV List"
> Subject: RV-List: Wiring question
>
> >
> > Fellow Listers:
> >
> > For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed two
> > 100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will be
> wired
> > to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps according
> to
> > my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14 ga into and
> out
> > of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a bundle. But
> I
> > may have erred in the separate wiring out in the wings going to the
> lights.
> > I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp
> draws
> > 7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15 amps?
> >
> > Doug Weiler
> > Hudson, WI
> >
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
Since the bulb only draws 7.5 amps, your wiring to that bulb only needs to
carry 7.5 amps. Not the total. The feed to the switch needs to carry the
total.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wiring question
Fellow Listers:
For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed two
100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will be wired
to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps according to
my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14 ga into and out
of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a bundle. But I
may have erred in the separate wiring out in the wings going to the lights.
I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp draws
7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15 amps?
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight - RV-8 |
Mike,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A - Flying
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <MICHAEL.J.ROBBINS(at)VERIZON.NET>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: First Flight - RV-8
Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 08:54:49 -0700
-- RV-List message posted by: "Michael J. Robbins"
This posting is a little late as I have been off the list changing my email
address, but N88MJ, an RV-8QB first flew on Monday out of Paine Field,
Everett, Washington after 4.5 years and 3600 hours of labor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A |
Put mine under the footwell like lots of others have. I like the fit there.
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL (res)
Greensboro, N.C.
Hanger # 23 at INT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
Doug,
Even though your lights take less than 17 amps your CB is protecting
your wires. If you had a short in the 16 ga. wire in the wing, it might
overheat because the breaker wouldn't protect it. If you don't want to
change the wire, put a fuse or breaker on each leg.
Ken
For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed
two 100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will
be wired to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps
according to my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14
ga into and out of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps
in a bundle. But I may have erred in the separate wiring out in the
wings going to the lights. I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to
each lamp when each lamp draws 7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15
amps?
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
Doug Weiler wrote:
> -Fellow Listers:
>
> For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed two 100
amp halogen landing
> lamps in each wing tip. These lights will be wired to one switch and one CB.
Each light draws
> about 7 to 7.5 amps according to my calculations for a total of say 15 amps.
I have used 14 ga
> into and out of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a bundle.
But I may have
> erred in the separate wiring out in the wings going to the lights. I used 16
ga. Do you need the
> 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp draws 7.5 amps but the whole system draws
15 amps?
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
>
The purpose of the breaker is to protect the wire. Therefore ALL wires downstream
of the breaker
must be capable of carrying the breaker current. If you have a short at the end
of any wire in the
circuit you want the breaker to trip, not the wire to melt. If the particular 16
gauge wire you are
using is rated for the current rating of your breaker then you're OK, if not, you
need to either
provide protection for the smaller wire or increase the wire size. Also, theoretically,
your 100
watt lamps connected to 12 volts draw 100/12=8.33 Amps each for a total of 17.7
Amps (approx.)
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
Robert McCallum wrote:
. Also, theoretically, your 100watt lamps connected to 12 volts draw 100/12=8.33
Amps each for a total
of 17.7 Amps (approx.)
Bob McC
Folks;
Sorry, I can't do simple arithmetic either. That should be 16.7 amps NOT 17.7 amps.
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
As always, thanks for all the info. It's not a big deal to draw out the 16
ga wire and lead in the 14 ga. That way I'll cover all the bases.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Meketa" <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy cuttin' |
Hello Yall
It sounds like you have the answer to your question. Cut until you touch
the top of the rollover bar and top of the canopy frame. The sides may not
pull down without distorting the canopy shape, but this will change when
you seperate the halfs.
George Meketa
RV-8, 87 hours/in the paint shop
> I'm making the initial cuts to my RV-8 canopy. I'm almost up to the
> lines on the canopy that represent the factory planes. Things are
> fitting well, but it's still about 3/8" from the rollover bar. Do I
> keep cutting past the lines or am I at the point where everyone else cut
> it in half "early"?
>
> Canopy cuttin' in Carolina,
> Larry Bowen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T Bronson" <bipetype(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wanted: untouched RV4 emp kit |
Hi Folks,
After MUCH deliberation and procrastination, I have decided to jump into
this RV madness. I would like to acquire an untouched RV-4 empennage kit.
Prefer provision for tail light and electric trim option. I would like to
save a few $$, but am not out to steal one (well...maybe...) E-mail me off
list at:
bipetype(at)hotmail.com.
Tim Bronson
Pittsburgh, PA.
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim's Hotmail" <rv8apilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight - RV-8 |
Congratulations Mike!
Aint it great! It just keeps getting better and better.
It's been almost a year for me and I'm still loven every minute of it.
Enjoy your new bird.
- Jim Andrews
N89JA
RV-8A ( headed for the paint shop - finally )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <michael.j.robbins(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: First Flight - RV-8
>
> This posting is a little late as I have been off the list changing my
email
> address, but N88MJ, an RV-8QB first flew on Monday out of Paine Field,
> Everett, Washington after 4.5 years and 3600 hours of labor. It has a
> factory new O-360 and Hartzell CS prop with an AirFlow Performance fuel
> injection system. Full IFR with a Garmin 430, Garmin transponder and
audio
> panel and ICOM second com, S-Tec 20 autopilot, all electric attitude
> indicator and Century HSI plus angle-of-attack.
>
> It was not without incidence. 30 seconds after takeoff what I thought was
> oil began spraying over the windshield. Got up to pattern altitude and
> decided I had to come down NOW. Landed (more of an arrival - bounced
three
> times) with a 90 degree crosswind and little forward visibility. Turned
> out to be grease from the prop. Had a defective grease fitting where the
> ball didn't seat, so threw most of the hub grease out. A new fitting and
> some grease solved the problem, but maybe Hartzell should pay my laundry
> bill. Subsequent landings have been greasers (not on the windshield) now
> that I know how the 8 lands. Will post some photos on Randy Lervold's
> website (www.RV-8.com) in a week or so.
>
> Mike Robbins
> RV8Q 80591 N88MJ now flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Geoff Evans" <gwevans(at)attbi.com> |
I recently received the empennage kit for my RV-8 QB. It contains
updates to the preview plans manual.
The preview plans I got three month ago (dated 2/20/01) had detailed
instructions about building an H-shaped jig for the empennage
construction.
The recent updates to the plans (dated 2/20/02) have completely removed
all references to this H-shaped jig. There are no drawings of it and no
references to it in the textual description of the empennage
construction.
Are the matched holes so good that the jig is no longer necessary? Has
anyone had any experience (good or bad) building the empennage pieces on
a table without a jig, as the instructions now specify?
The old plans also mention the "V-groove" jig, used for fitting the
skins on the elevators and rudder, and say that "parts for these
fixtures are included with the empennage kit." The new instructions have
omitted all drawings and references to the "V-groove" jig, except for
one sentence that I think was left in the document in error. The kit
also does not include any parts for building a "V-groove" jig.
Is this jig no longer necessary as well?
Thanks.
-Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring question |
Ahh yes...forgot about the total load. I had inline fuses in mine to
protect each side. This way if one went bad, then the other wouldn't go.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wiring question
>
> Doug,
>
> Even though your lights take less than 17 amps your CB is protecting
> your wires. If you had a short in the 16 ga. wire in the wing, it might
> overheat because the breaker wouldn't protect it. If you don't want to
> change the wire, put a fuse or breaker on each leg.
>
> Ken
>
> For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I installed
> two 100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip. These lights will
> be wired to one switch and one CB. Each light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps
> according to my calculations for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14
> ga into and out of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps
> in a bundle. But I may have erred in the separate wiring out in the
> wings going to the lights. I used 16 ga. Do you need the 14 ga wire to
> each lamp when each lamp draws 7.5 amps but the whole system draws 15
> amps?
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A |
I put mine just fwd of the spar on the right side. I don't think it will
work with an -8A however because of the gear leg mount. Might be worth
checking though. My installation can be seen at...
http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm
Randy Lervold
RV-8, ~180 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "dag adamson" <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A
>
> Hello-
>
> Anybody out there mount the Navaid servo in the
> cockpit of an -8A?
>
> Seems to me that someone with -8 did it....
>
> Pictures or discussion would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Dag
>
> ====
> *****************
> Dag Adamson
> 617 513 1182
> Natick, MA
> RV-8A Fuselage
> *****************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Gear Leg Fairings / MORE SPEED! |
Hi all...
I finally got my gear leg fairings installed this weeked.....no intersection
fairings yet though... Even with the clamps hanging out in the breeze I got
another 15 MPH speed increase... Here's some numbers from a short test
flight I made yesterday morning:
Heading East at 8000' MSL
2600 RPM - 700 RPM increase
22.5 MPA - .6 MAP increase
165 MPH indicated - 15 MPH increase
OAT: 69* F
Oil Temp/Press: 180/70
Highest EGT: 1403* F
Highest CHT: 359* F
I hope to see some of you at Longmont in two weekends!
http://www.greeleynet.com/eaaregional/
-Bill VonDane
Colorado Springs
RV-8A N8WV - 22+ hours...
http://vondane.com/rv8a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A |
The TruTrak Servo will fit in the same place
----- Original Message -----
From: <Lenleg(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A
>
> Put mine under the footwell like lots of others have. I like the fit
there.
>
> Len Leggette RV-8A
> N901LL (res)
> Greensboro, N.C.
> Hanger # 23 at INT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wanted: untouched RV4 emp kit |
> >
> >I hope you have really thought this out. The only reason I could imagine
> >for building a -4 is that you want to go dirt cheap,
>
>
> I can think of another reason. 4's are beautiful. None of the RV
> designs since then have approached it in looks.
>
Amen!!!!!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A |
I put mine under the floor on the left side just in front of the rear spar.
Vince
>From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A
>Date: Sun, 16 Jun 2002 10:01:11 -0700 (PDT)
>
>
>Hello-
>
>Anybody out there mount the Navaid servo in the
>cockpit of an -8A?
>
>Seems to me that someone with -8 did it....
>
>Pictures or discussion would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>Dag
>
>====
>*****************
>Dag Adamson
>617 513 1182
>Natick, MA
>RV-8A Fuselage
>*****************
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Thomas Rupe <trupe(at)ridgenet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: RV4 Canopy for Sale |
I'm pretty sure I need one. My RV4 is S/N 62 so I will have to check and
see if they have made any changes in the shape. How much are you asking for
it.
Thanks
Tom Rupe
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Bertsch" <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV4-List: RV4 Canopy for Sale
> --> RV4-List message posted by: Jeff Bertsch
>
> I have a new RV-4 canopy for sale. It has never been
> removed from the original shipping crate. It is the
> grey tinted canopy, Vans part number C-401. Send an
> email if you would like more info and some photos.
>
> Thanks
> Jeff Bertsch
> RV-4
> Houston, TX
> Noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RE: RV8-List: Canopy cuttin' |
| From: | Michael Stephan <mstephan(at)shr.net> |
I just finished cutting mine. Although my canopy came from Todd's Canopies
and didn't have the factory lines on it, I kept making little trimming cuts
until I got the canopy to rest on the top of the rollbar and canopy frame.
Then I separated the two halves and trimmed each part to get an even better
final fit. It took a lot of off and on before it was perfect. But my
advice is to get close, mark a line from the back to the front near the
separation point so that you can get the two pieces in the same location to
make those final finishing trim cuts. Make round notches around the canopy
frame ribs to give yourself a little plastic to hang over the frame.
keep cutting.
--
Michael Stephan
EAA Chapter 168
RV-8 builder
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
>
> It fits well in the back, and the 3.25" between the windshield and the
> bag door is good, so I guess I'll keep taking little bits off until it
> touches the roll bar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Flight Testing Spreadsheet Needed |
Does anyone have a spread sheet that will calculate TAS given CAS, temp,
altitude, and barometric pressure? I would sure appreciate a copy to
simplify my flight testing program.
Ken Harrill
RV6, 19 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe D. Wiza" <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
test
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Boone fly-in pictures |
In a message dated 6/17/2002 12:49:36 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
jack(at)iajobs.com writes:
> Good turn out in Boone, 31 RV's. Your can see pictures at
> http://members5.clubphoto.com/jack381669/801668/guest.phtml
>
>
Where is Boone??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | art stavro <art79(at)pacbell.net> |
Just a note to thank all who volunteered to fly my RV back from VA. I
was able to find an RV pilot in my neck of the woods who is going to fly
her back to Hayward for me. Thanks again, I really appreciated the
response.
Now the next question, are there any CFI's who own an RV4 with rudder
pedals etc in the rear who might be able to check me out, tail wheel
endorsment and sign off? Any where within a reasonable distance from HWD
preferably. I weigh 210 lbs .Thanks again. Art Stavro
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cross Country |
Ed,
The rocky mountain annual regional flyin is the 29th
and 30th of June at Longmont Co.
Stewart RV4 Co.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Ferry Flight |
Michael Kellems 1306 Horseshoe Dr Lewisburg TN 37091
mkellems(at)bellsouth.net (931) 270-9202 RV-4
The above was the only RV-4 entry for a Transitional Training Waiver in
March of this year. Contact Jan Streblow at EAA 1-888-322-4636 to see if
there are any new additions.
You are doing the right thing even if you have to drive a few miles.
I don't know Mike but you might be able for a small fee to get him to fly to
your airport. After getting some training, he might even check you out in
your plane. It is worth a phone call or at least an e-mail.
I believe in transition training and the statistics prove that it is the
safer way to fly.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "art stavro" <art79(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ferry Flight
Just a note to thank all who volunteered to fly my RV back from VA. I
was able to find an RV pilot in my neck of the woods who is going to fly
her back to Hayward for me. Thanks again, I really appreciated the
response.
Now the next question, are there any CFI's who own an RV4 with rudder
pedals etc in the rear who might be able to check me out, tail wheel
endorsment and sign off? Any where within a reasonable distance from HWD
preferably. I weigh 210 lbs .Thanks again. Art Stavro
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ferry Flight |
Hi Art,
Give Paul Traver a call 510-357-4581. He is a CFI based at Oakland who flys
an RV4. Don't know if it has rear rudder pedals but I'm sure he can help you
out.
Cash Copeland
HWD Hanger J-1 West Tee's
>
> Just a note to thank all who volunteered to fly my RV back from VA. I
> was able to find an RV pilot in my neck of the woods who is going to fly
> her back to Hayward for me. Thanks again, I really appreciated the
> response.
> Now the next question, are there any CFI's who own an RV4 with rudder
> pedals etc in the rear who might be able to check me out, tail wheel
> endorsment and sign off? Any where within a reasonable distance from HWD
> preferably. I weigh 210 lbs .Thanks again. Art Stavro
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | governor & clearance |
I am in the midst of installing the prop governor and am finding that
with the prop control in the fully open position the arm is only 1/4 of
an inch from the floor of the firewall cutout. Have any of you run into
this? How did you obtain more clearance for the arm-stop from hitting
the firewall cutout?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Rather than running heavier 14 gauge wires, use a double pole switch,
and feed each side of the switch with a separate fuse rated for the 16
gauge wires. This is one of the real advantages of the fuse panel block
that you are using - adding circuits is easy.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 162 hours
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Weiler
> Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2002 6:20 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Wiring question
>
>
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> For you electrical wizards I have a question. In my RV-4 I
> installed two 100 amp halogen landing lamps in each wing tip.
> These lights will be wired to one switch and one CB. Each
> light draws about 7 to 7.5 amps according to my calculations
> for a total of say 15 amps. I have used 14 ga into and out
> of the switch and CB which is adequate for up to 17 amps in a
> bundle. But I may have erred in the separate wiring out in
> the wings going to the lights. I used 16 ga. Do you need the
> 14 ga wire to each lamp when each lamp draws 7.5 amps but the
> whole system draws 15 amps?
>
> Doug Weiler
> Hudson, WI
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Boone fly-in pictures |
> > Good turn out in Boone, 31 RV's. Your can see pictures at
> > http://members5.clubphoto.com/jack381669/801668/guest.phtml
> >
> >
>
> Where is Boone??
>
Just next to Docks.
Actually, north central Iowa.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 162 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net> |
Need an engine guru again. My RV8 made first test flights (2) today.
Everything went well, despite the really nervous pilot. The oil temp shot
up to 210 in tem minutes. THe CHT was 325, the EGT was 1200 at cruise, and
so what the heck is going on here. I have a 9 row cooler, and still the
temp spiked. I am running a plenum as do the Rocket people. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Dan Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Compressor Noise |
I need some creative help. My compressor is VERY loud. It is a belt type,
large IR 60 gal.compressor but it's in the basement. The wife is not happy
about the noise when it fires off. Any thoughts on how to quiet it down
without creating airflow/over-heating problems?
Thanks...
David Schaefer
RV6-A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | ACS2002 Engine Monitor Update |
I finally got some pictures of the new color engine monitor in our RV-4. I
have flown the unit in every condition from bright sun to dusk and at night
and it's always incredibly clear. The only downside is it makes the color
screen on my Garmin 195 look really bad. In fact, the other night flying
home into the setting sun I couldn't read the GPS but the engine monitor
always looked great.
I had the plane at the NW RV fly-in on Saturday and was thrilled with all the
positive comments.
Follow the RV-4 link from our web site to see the new panel.
www.Advanced-Control-Systems.com
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor Noise |
David Schaefer wrote:
>
> I need some creative help. My compressor is VERY loud. It is a belt type,
> large IR 60 gal.compressor but it's in the basement. The wife is not happy
> about the noise when it fires off. Any thoughts on how to quiet it down
> without creating airflow/over-heating problems?
>
> Thanks...
>
> David Schaefer
> RV6-A Fuse
> =====
One of the greatest noise sources on a compressor is the air intake. Plumbing the
intake to the
house exterior via a fairly heavy wall pipe or tube and installing an air filter
on the (now
outdoor) intake end of this pipe will reduce the noise considerably. An automotive
style filter is
suitable if housed in some sort of canister with the inlet facing down to prevent
the entry of rain.
Good condition belts, well aligned pulleys, new motor bearings, and heavy duty
cast iron compressors
all also go a long way to providing a quiet set-up as does mounting the unit on
vibration absorption
mounts. These mounts can be as simple as thick rubber or cork pads to dampen some
vibration. (just
place them under the regular feet of the compressor where it sits on the floor)
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "G. Miller" <gvm(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: hot engine??? |
My -8 is standard setup O-360. Runs typically at 180F oil, CHT 300F cruise
to 390F during long climb out, and about 1210F EGT with peak at 1350 burning
91 octane auto. EGT runs a bit hotter running 100LL. These are Vans gages.
Except for your oil temp, it sounds normal. Make sure your oil temp sensor
and gage are ok, e.g. the boiling water test.
Congrats on the flights!! Wasn't that fun? On my first flight my elevator
trim switches were reversed. Pucker factor until I figured it out...
Greg Miller
N89GM
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv8-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of TwoAviators
Subject: RV8-List: hot engine???
--> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators
Need an engine guru again. My RV8 made first test flights (2) today.
Everything went well, despite the really nervous pilot. The oil temp shot
up to 210 in tem minutes. THe CHT was 325, the EGT was 1200 at cruise, and
so what the heck is going on here. I have a 9 row cooler, and still the
temp spiked. I am running a plenum as do the Rocket people. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Dan Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flap/aileron gap |
What's the concensus with respect to how big the gap between the flap and
the aileron should be ?
I am guessing 1/4", any words of wisdom ??
Thanks,
Amit.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor Noise |
Build a box around it with egg carton foam on the inside. Build the box
around a box fan on the floor. Then put a hole on the top of the box. This
way the fan will blow cool air from the bottom of the compressor and blow
the hot air out of the top. Even with the hole, you can expect a 40.7%
reduction in noise.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Compressor Noise
>
> I need some creative help. My compressor is VERY loud. It is a belt
type,
> large IR 60 gal.compressor but it's in the basement. The wife is not
happy
> about the noise when it fires off. Any thoughts on how to quiet it down
> without creating airflow/over-heating problems?
>
> Thanks...
>
> David Schaefer
> RV6-A Fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Update |
How much is it?
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <RobHickman(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Update
>
> I finally got some pictures of the new color engine monitor in our RV-4.
I
> have flown the unit in every condition from bright sun to dusk and at
night
> and it's always incredibly clear. The only downside is it makes the color
> screen on my Garmin 195 look really bad. In fact, the other night flying
> home into the setting sun I couldn't read the GPS but the engine monitor
> always looked great.
>
> I had the plane at the NW RV fly-in on Saturday and was thrilled with all
the
> positive comments.
>
> Follow the RV-4 link from our web site to see the new panel.
>
> www.Advanced-Control-Systems.com
>
> Rob Hickman
> RV-4 N401RH
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hot engine??? |
If you have a plenum without adequate exit volume, that could be a problem.
You might want to double check the exit of your cowl. If you haven't
painted yet and can open it up an inch or two, that might work.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "TwoAviators" <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
Subject: RV-List: hot engine???
>
> Need an engine guru again. My RV8 made first test flights (2) today.
> Everything went well, despite the really nervous pilot. The oil temp shot
> up to 210 in tem minutes. THe CHT was 325, the EGT was 1200 at cruise, and
> so what the heck is going on here. I have a 9 row cooler, and still the
> temp spiked. I am running a plenum as do the Rocket people. Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dan Ward
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor Noise |
David:
I have been trying to prevent airflow/over-heating problems with my wife for
years. It doesn't have a thing to do with a noisy compressor.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Compressor Noise
>
> I need some creative help. My compressor is VERY loud. It is a belt
type,
> large IR 60 gal.compressor but it's in the basement. The wife is not
happy
> about the noise when it fires off. Any thoughts on how to quiet it down
> without creating airflow/over-heating problems?
>
> Thanks...
>
> David Schaefer
> RV6-A Fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
| Subject: | ACS2002 Engine Monitor Update |
From his website ....
Engine Monitor with Sensors (4 Cylinder): $3250
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Besing
> Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2002 12:09 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Update
>
>
> How much is it?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <RobHickman(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Update
>
>
> >
> > I finally got some pictures of the new color engine monitor in our RV-4.
> I
> > have flown the unit in every condition from bright sun to dusk and at
> night
> > and it's always incredibly clear. The only downside is it
> makes the color
> > screen on my Garmin 195 look really bad. In fact, the other
> night flying
> > home into the setting sun I couldn't read the GPS but the engine monitor
> > always looked great.
> >
> > I had the plane at the NW RV fly-in on Saturday and was
> thrilled with all
> the
> > positive comments.
> >
> > Follow the RV-4 link from our web site to see the new panel.
> >
> > www.Advanced-Control-Systems.com
> >
> > Rob Hickman
> > RV-4 N401RH
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor Noise |
Hello David,
If it is a oiled piston type you can reduce the noise by devising an air
intake system with a good filter. A filter inside another filter will reduce
the noise enough to be able to talk on the phone while standing next to it.
If you use two filters be sure they are oversized for the job so that air
flow to the compessor is not restricted. The majority of the sound created
by this type of compressor is from the intake ports being open to the air
with no more than a very thin foam filter to keep the big chunks from
finding their way into the machinery. The older high end unit I had in the
past used an oil bath air filter, It kept a large shop running while
standing in the open less than ten feet away from the phone desk.
The more recent dry compressor types have the advantage of providing
oil-less compressed air. The price for this advantage is noise (Real loud
noise!!!) The best advice is to put the damn thing out and away from the
shop. The choice of weather or not to build a sound proof shed for it in the
back yard might be driven by the desire to continue being married and or
weather or not your neighbor is bigger and meaner than you are {:-)!
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Compressor Noise
>
> I need some creative help. My compressor is VERY loud. It is a belt
type,
> large IR 60 gal.compressor but it's in the basement. The wife is not
happy
> about the noise when it fires off. Any thoughts on how to quiet it down
> without creating airflow/over-heating problems?
>
> Thanks...
>
> David Schaefer
> RV6-A Fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hot engine??? |
I would suggest that you check what type of oil cooler
you are using if it is a positech get rid of it and go
with the stewart warner. I agree with Paul to check
for your exit areas as they are critical to get the
airflow out of the cowl. You may want to use the oil
filter cooler that you can get from J.C. Whitney. Also
be advised that if your engine is new or newly
overhauled it will take about ten to fiftenn hours for
your temps to stabilize.
hope this helps
Glenn Williams
Fort Worth, Texas
A&P
--- Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> If you have a plenum without adequate exit volume,
> that could be a problem.
> You might want to double check the exit of your
> cowl. If you haven't
> painted yet and can open it up an inch or two, that
> might work.
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "TwoAviators" <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: hot engine???
>
>
>
> >
> > Need an engine guru again. My RV8 made first test
> flights (2) today.
> > Everything went well, despite the really nervous
> pilot. The oil temp shot
> > up to 210 in tem minutes. THe CHT was 325, the EGT
> was 1200 at cruise, and
> > so what the heck is going on here. I have a 9 row
> cooler, and still the
> > temp spiked. I am running a plenum as do the
> Rocket people. Thoughts?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dan Ward
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A |
what I did is strengthen the right hand floor added
doublers ( mine will be removable for access to the
servo, will mount the servo on the right hand side of
the floor and attach a weldment to the control yoke
tube for the servo arm to mount to.
Glenn
--- TruTrak Flight Systems
wrote:
> Systems"
>
> The TruTrak Servo will fit in the same place
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Lenleg(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Navaid servo in the cockpit of
> an -8A
>
>
> >
> > Put mine under the footwell like lots of others
> have. I like the fit
> there.
> >
> > Len Leggette RV-8A
> > N901LL (res)
> > Greensboro, N.C.
> > Hanger # 23 at INT
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight Testing Spreadsheet Needed |
Ken,
See Kevin Horton's excellent collection of flight test links at:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/ftlinks.html
Hmmm.... 'simplify', I've always found answering one question just leads
to ten more questions.
have fun,
Doug Gray
RV-6 Fuse.
> Does anyone have a spread sheet that will calculate TAS given CAS, temp,
> altitude, and barometric pressure? I would sure appreciate a copy to
> simplify my flight testing program.
>
> Ken Harrill
> RV6, 19 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Boone fly-in pictures |
North of DesMoines and West of Ames
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Boone fly-in pictures
> > Good turn out in Boone, 31 RV's. Your can see pictures at
> > http://members5.clubphoto.com/jack381669/801668/guest.phtml
> >
> >
>
> Where is Boone??
>
Just next to Docks.
Actually, north central Iowa.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 162 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: hot engine??? |
What was the outside temp and what size hoses to the oil cooler?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "TwoAviators" <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
Subject: RV-List: hot engine???
Need an engine guru again. My RV8 made first test flights (2) today.
Everything went well, despite the really nervous pilot. The oil temp shot
up to 210 in tem minutes. THe CHT was 325, the EGT was 1200 at cruise, and
so what the heck is going on here. I have a 9 row cooler, and still the
temp spiked. I am running a plenum as do the Rocket people. Thoughts?
Thanks,
Dan Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flap/aileron gap |
Hi Amit,
I used 1/4" on my RV-6A. I think that what the plans called for if I
remember correctly.
Regards,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A - N57ME (Flying)
www.ericsrv6a.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: flap/aileron gap
>
> What's the concensus with respect to how big the gap between the flap and
> the aileron should be ?
> I am guessing 1/4", any words of wisdom ??
> Thanks,
> Amit.
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Blum <bob(at)theblums.net> |
| Subject: | Koger sunshade placement RV6a tipup |
I have a tipup canopy on my RV6a, and recently purchased a Koger sunshade.
About how far forward of the trailing edge of the tipup have you placed the
rear edge of the sunshade rail? I would like to mount it as close as
possible to the rear edge. Are there any issues with the canopy safety
latch when the rail is mounted above it?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Dan,
Take a piece of duct tape and cover your oil temperature gauge, that should solve
your problem. I would worry about it if it was reaching 230-250. The engine
is breaking in and running hot is normal, plus your temps will run lower once
you change oil. Run the ***t out of it for the first few hours so the rings
seat properly. Don't baby that engine during the first few hours.
Bob Japundza
RV-6 300+ hours
building F1 QB
>From: TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net>
>Subject: RV-List: hot engine???
>
>
>Need an engine guru again. My RV8 made first test flights (2) today.
>Everything went well, despite the really nervous pilot. The oil temp shot
>up to 210 in tem minutes. THe CHT was 325, the EGT was 1200 at cruise, and
>so what the heck is going on here. I have a 9 row cooler, and still the
>temp spiked. I am running a plenum as do the Rocket people. Thoughts?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dan Ward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Positech upgrade |
glenn williams wrote:
>
>
> I would suggest that you check what type of oil cooler
> you are using if it is a positech get rid of it and go
> with the stewart warner. I agree with Paul to check
> for your exit areas as they are critical to get the
> airflow out of the cowl. You may want to use the oil
> filter cooler that you can get from J.C. Whitney. Also
> be advised that if your engine is new or newly
> overhauled it will take about ten to fiftenn hours for
> your temps to stabilize.
As has been mentioned in previous posts, Positech has a free upgrade for
many of their coolers. I sent my four year old cooler back and got a
shiny new one that has considerably larger air passages. One of our
local RV-6A's was running high oil temps with the original Positech and
the new version solved the temp problem.
Contact Positech for more details; ask for Brian.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6....EFIS/Lite testing in progress...)
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Ferry Flight |
Art;
Just a suggestion, if you have NO taildragger time,
go get some dual in a Cessna 140, citabria or anything
first, then get a differences checkout in the RV. The
rear seat visibility is poor in the RV4 and not good
for "saving" you baby from mistakes. I personally
wouldn't do it, and I have instructed from the back
seat of the F16D.
Rob Ray
--- art stavro wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: art stavro
>
>
> Just a note to thank all who volunteered to fly my
> RV back from VA. I
> was able to find an RV pilot in my neck of the woods
> who is going to fly
> her back to Hayward for me. Thanks again, I really
> appreciated the
> response.
> Now the next question, are there any CFI's who own
> an RV4 with rudder
> pedals etc in the rear who might be able to check me
> out, tail wheel
> endorsment and sign off? Any where within a
> reasonable distance from HWD
> preferably. I weigh 210 lbs .Thanks again. Art
> Stavro
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fletcher Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: governor & clearance |
Dave,
The control arm on your governor can be "clocked" so that it is 90 degrees to the
control cable at mid travel and/or to clear any obstacles. The
procedure for doing this depends on which governor you have. Basically,
it involves loosening the screws on the back, clocking the arm to the desired position
then tightening the screws, but check with your manufacturer.
Pat Hatch
RV-4 Flying
RV-6 Almost there
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave Ford
Subject: RV-List: governor & clearance
I am in the midst of installing the prop governor and am finding that
with the prop control in the fully open position the arm is only 1/4 of
an inch from the floor of the firewall cutout. Have any of you run into
this? How did you obtain more clearance for the arm-stop from hitting
the firewall cutout?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jordan, Mel" <jordan_mel(at)ti.com> |
| Subject: | Vans Tachometer transducer wiring |
Does anyone have the wiring schematic for the Vans Tachometer transducer
(part # IE VTACHGEN)? It has threee wires (Red, Black, White) which I
assume are power, ground and signal, but it sure would be nice to know for
sure. I want to use this to drive the Grand Rapids Engine monitor instead
of messing around with a switch to select different mag P leads when doing a
mag check. I assume that the wiring diagram is with the tach gauge itself,
which I did not buy. So if anyone that has wired up on of these
transducers I would much appreciate confirmation of the correct connections.
Thanks,
Mel Jordan RV6A
Tucson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Tachometer transducer wiring |
Mel,
>From the diagram that Van's supplies (I'll send you scanned copy if you
wish):
- Black goes to ground
- White provides signal
- Red goes to power bus
as you guessed.
The indicator is labeled with G, S and I respectively for black, white
and red.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A panel N331RD
Jordan, Mel wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have the wiring schematic for the Vans Tachometer transducer
> (part # IE VTACHGEN)? It has threee wires (Red, Black, White) which I
> assume are power, ground and signal, but it sure would be nice to know for
> sure. I want to use this to drive the Grand Rapids Engine monitor instead
> of messing around with a switch to select different mag P leads when doing a
> mag check. I assume that the wiring diagram is with the tach gauge itself,
> which I did not buy. So if anyone that has wired up on of these
> transducers I would much appreciate confirmation of the correct connections.
>
> Thanks,
> Mel Jordan RV6A
> Tucson
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
The reason I put mine out on the spar at the right wing end is I wanted it
to be connected to the bell crank in the wing as this will prevent any
lateral input from causing pitch inputs.
It seemed easier to just remove the wing tip as mine are installed with #6
cs screws.
The servo is bolted directly to the Spar Web with a small backing plate that
has the nut plates riveted to it.
The hiem joint is attached to the bell crank via a top and bottom plate that
have three #8 screws and a few layers of aluminum spacers that catch the
outboard edge of the bell crank. This allows the hiem attach bolt to go
through the top plate, the ball and then the bottom plate. This pivot point
is set close enough to the bell crank pivot so that it has a full range of
travel without hitting the servo's range stops.
The unit works great as I just flew it across most of California and it
found everyplace I set it to look for, including L45. I must say, that
although the fires have been bad the weather's been fantastic.
w
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor Noise |
>
>I need some creative help. My compressor is VERY loud. It is a belt type,
>large IR 60 gal.compressor but it's in the basement. The wife is not happy
>about the noise when it fires off. Any thoughts on how to quiet it down
>without creating airflow/over-heating problems?
Get rid of wife?
Put compressor in the next county?
Put compressor in box outdoors.
Enclose compressor in **HEAVY** box with no gaps, cracks, holes etc. Also
do as others suggest, intake outdoors, shock mounts etc. If possible,
cooling air in and out to outdoors. Just using a heavy box (concrete,
wood) will do wonders.
Lightweight insulation does little. Mass kills sound best.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: K1000-4 center section attach nutplates |
>
>
>I'm going to be getting to this point later today. On the wings, the 7
>plans call for you to attach the K1000-4 center section attach nutplates to
>the forward side of the spar. Refer to DWG 11. I have found a section
>showing the platenuts, but no reference to the rivets. Anybody care to
>chime in and let me know what to use?? Pic below shows the position for
>these platenuts.
>
>http://rvflying.tripod.com/csnutplates.jpg
>
>BTW, it goes much faster working on two wings. After the first platenut
>flange learning curve, I was able to do the remaining three in just over an
>hour per flange.
>
>Dana Overall
>Richmond, KY
>7 emp. wings on bench.
>http://rvflying.tripod.com
It doesn't matter what the plans say about rivet lengths, because they are
often in error. You need to know the rivet diameter, type of head, and
then you pick the correct length using a rivet gauge or by
measurement. Rivet lengths for platenuts are not critical, as the purpose
of the rivet is to keep the plate nut from turning, or falling off. You
don't need a perfect rivet to do that.
So, you know it is 3/32 diameter. You know platenuts always get
countersunk rivets, so all you need to do is decide on the length.
The small head OOPS rivets are the cat's meow for platenuts, as you don't
need to countersink as deep, which is great on thin material (not really
relevant to the centre section, but I thought you might want to know).
Kevin Horton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Claude Heiniger" <cheiniger(at)dplanet.ch> |
| Subject: | S-TEC Autopiilot installation - Altitude Hold not working |
I would appreciate comments from list members who have installed an
S-TEC autopilot (50 series).
This has just been installed in a Cessna 310 and as the airplane was
test flown, it was impossible to have the Altitude mode hold altitude.
It would either push the nose over and go out of trim and dive or
initiate a steep climb.
The Sensor was tested on a static system box and behaved like another
one that works ok. It seems like, on a ground test that the servo will
not hold the yoke in positon, rather go forward on it.
If any one has had a run-in with such a problem, I would appreciate your
comments.
Greetings from Europe
Claude Heiniger
A&P, CFII, ATP
Stby for a RV-7 when the time is ripe!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Pohl" <planewiz(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Salvage LYC Engine |
If anyone is looking to bid on an engine in what's left of a Yr 2000 Cessna
172 (SP?), here is the link. (I just can't get out there to have a look at
it first.)
http://64.4.30.250/cgi-bin/linkrd?_lang=EN&lah=473bdfbb02117c07fa0a6e2252c0d677&lat=1024430525&hm___action=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2esalvagesale%2ecom%2fshowoffer%2easp%3fo%3d9929%26l%3d1977318
DRP
7A Builder
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Compressor Noise |
>
> Lightweight insulation does little. Mass kills sound best.
>
One small addendum:
I found gluing that bedcrate stuff to the inside of my compressor "dog
house" cut a lot of noise.
That stuff is foam shaped just like the inside of anechoic chambers,
with little pyramids that reflect the sound around the inside of the
enclosure and trap much of it.
Attach it with the pyramids facing the compressor, of course.
Mike Thompson
Austin, TX
-6 N140RV (Reserved)
FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terrywatson3(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Navaid servo in the cockpit of an -8A |
I see that the Cirrus SR22 uses the same motor and springs for aileron trim
and autopilot roll changes. Why do I need two motors and connections to the
control system for the same thing?
Terry
RV-8A fuselage & finish
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Sam James Phone?? |
Anyone out there have an up todate phone for Sam. Tried both of the ones I
had and the failed. Also checked the one on the Yeller pages. Same story.
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | V-speed question |
What is the "V" speed designator for "best glide"? (such as Vso for stall
speed).
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 182 hours
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe D. Wiza" <planejoel(at)juno.com> |
Some time back some one on the list mention the name and catalog number
of the on/off wing tip valves They used or were going to use. I just
can't get my one way valve not to siphon when it's hot out.
Joe
Celebrity
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: V-speed question |
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
>
> What is the "V" speed designator for "best glide"? (such as Vso for stall
> speed).
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, 182 hours
> www.rv-8.com
> Home Wing VAF
>
Here you go Randy,
Jerry
V-Speed Definitions:
Vr = Velocity Rotation
Vy = Best Rate of
Climb Speed.
Vx = Best Angle of
Climb Speed.
Vfe = Maximum Flap
Extended Speed.
Vs = Stall Speed
Vso = Stalling Speed in
landing configuration.
Gear + Flaps
extended.
Va = Manuevering
Speed.
Vno = Max Stuctural
Cruising Speed.
Vne = Velocity Never
Exceed.
Vglide= Maximum
Glide Speed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Meketa" <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: S-TEC Autopiilot installation - Altitude Hold not working |
Claude
It sounds like the wires to the pitch servo motor need to be swapped.
These are the two wires that actually run the motor. Look at the supplied
blueprint diagram and swap the wires at the harness end before the servo.
All servos are wired the same way. If you switch the wires at the servo end
of the plug a factory repaired ar replaced servo will again do the same
thing.
I flew in a friends 182 on the initial auto pilot test flight (S-TEC 30) and
it
would act as you mentioned. The auto pilot would start a pitch up or down
and would progress into a steep accent or decent. The motor was going in
the wrong direction.
A simple ground test would be to suck on the static source with the altitude
hold engaged and watch the yoke. It should push in for a decent. If it pulls
back things are working backwards.
If you have no diagram and need wire colors let me know. I have all the info
at
the airport.
George Meketa
RV8 / S-TEC 30
>
> I would appreciate comments from list members who have installed an
> S-TEC autopilot (50 series).
>
> This has just been installed in a Cessna 310 and as the airplane was
> test flown, it was impossible to have the Altitude mode hold altitude.
> It would either push the nose over and go out of trim and dive or
> initiate a steep climb.
>
> The Sensor was tested on a static system box and behaved like another
> one that works ok. It seems like, on a ground test that the servo will
> not hold the yoke in positon, rather go forward on it.
>
> If any one has had a run-in with such a problem, I would appreciate your
> comments.
>
> Greetings from Europe
>
> Claude Heiniger
> A&P, CFII, ATP
> Stby for a RV-7 when the time is ripe!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Positech upgrade |
Sam,
Is correct, as usual, Positech replaced our oil cooler as well. We are seeing temps
a good 8-10 C less.
Give them a call - we had the new n/c oil cooler in about 3 days.
Chuck Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (flying)
From: Sam Buchanan <SBUC(at)HIWAAY.NET>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: Positech upgrade
Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 09:25:26 -0500
-- RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan
glenn williams wrote:
-- RV-List message posted by: glenn williams
I would suggest that you check what type of oil cooler
you are using if it is a positech get rid of it and go
with the stewart warner. I agree with Paul to check
for your exit areas as they are critical to get the
airflow out of the cowl. You may want to use the oil
filter cooler that you can get from J.C. Whitney. Also
be advised that if your engine is new or newly
overhauled it will take about ten to fiftenn hours for
your temps to stabilize.
As has been mentioned in previous posts, Positech has a free upgrade for
many of their coolers. I sent my four year old cooler back and got a
shiny new one that has considerably larger air passages. One of our
local RV-6A's was running high oil temps with the original Positech and
the new version solved the temp problem.
Contact Positech for more details; ask for Brian.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6....EFIS/Lite testing in progress...)
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug's Mail" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: V-speed question |
If you don't know the best glide speed use Vy. It is usually very close.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: V-speed question
>
>
> Randy Lervold wrote:
> >
> >
> > What is the "V" speed designator for "best glide"? (such as Vso for
stall
> > speed).
> >
> > Randy Lervold
> > RV-8, 182 hours
> > www.rv-8.com
> > Home Wing VAF
> >
>
>
> Here you go Randy,
>
> Jerry
>
> V-Speed Definitions:
>
> Vr = Velocity Rotation
>
> Vy = Best Rate of
> Climb Speed.
>
> Vx = Best Angle of
> Climb Speed.
>
> Vfe = Maximum Flap
> Extended Speed.
>
> Vs = Stall Speed
>
> Vso = Stalling Speed in
> landing configuration.
> Gear + Flaps
> extended.
>
> Va = Manuevering
> Speed.
>
> Vno = Max Stuctural
> Cruising Speed.
>
> Vne = Velocity Never
> Exceed.
>
> Vglide= Maximum
> Glide Speed.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRGSCHMIDT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Removeable top skin, was Working under the panel |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GRGSCHMIDT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MT Prop MTV-12-B/183-59 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Safety & Operating Costs |
I have been asked for my thoughts on the use of EGT equipment. Will add
my observations as related to engine fuel mixtures to the recent
discussions on the subject.
One of the first jobs I had after leaving the air force at the end of
WWll was instructing and flying charter trips for a small FBO. They also
had a engine overhaul facility, when there was no flying to do I filled
in in the engine shop. With no overhaul experience I spent my time in
the clean-up dept. dismantling parts and removing valves from cylinders.
This is were I noticed the wide range of conditions of cylinders and in
particular the exhaust valves. The exhaust valves on one engine would be
burnt and another engine with about the same time on it would be
carboned up and the rings stuck from carbon build-up and all the
variations in between. The shop foreman explained the reasons, one
running too lean the other too rich and he got me started on the proper
use of the mixture control.
All we had to go by in those days was in the case of a fixed pitch prop
lean till we got a rise in rpm and then richen up. With a cs prop lean
till we got an increase in airspeed or loss of airspeed then richen up.
Now with having to pay the engine maintenance costs ourselves instead of
the air force I tended to run a bit on the rich side. In any case not a
very accurate way to handle the mixture. A lot of the big radial engines
used automatic carbs so the mixture was taken care of for you.
With the advent of the EGT gauge the whole process changed. One probe
installed on the leanest running cylinder gives us the ability to lean
accurately, now we can get maximum valve life and at the same time the
best fuel consumption.
Now we take it a step further and install a probe on all cylinders, now
we can see what's going on in each cylinder and by comparing we have a
poor man's engine analyzer. If one is say running a lot cooler we know
we have a problem, could be a bad plug or wire or a valve leaking or
sticking or in the case of a fuel injected engine a bad nozzle. It will
also tell us if we have a carb that is acting up, an example would be
not able to get a sufficient rise when leaning to peak indicating a lean
carb or malfunctioning throttle body.
Then we go another step further and add CHT on all cylinders with a
graphic display, now in addition to all the other info we can take the
best care of our engine by managing our cylinder head temps properly.
Over the years a lot of my flying has been single engine over a lot of
sparsely settled areas and rough terrain and this equipment would sure
have added a lot to the peace of mind. When you are 300 to 400 miles
from the nearest airport I tend to take a real interest in how the
engine is running.
The greatest advantage in this type of equipment for me is if properly
monitored it will give lots of advanced warning of a problem.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N6JX" <n6jx(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Vans Tachometer Transducer |
I am posting this message as I feel that others may find this hint
helpful if they are trying to hook an electronic engine monitor up to
their engine.
I am using a Grand Rapids Engine Information System engine monitor in my
RV6A. My plane has an O-360 Lyc with dual mags. The EIS has a single
mag input for the tach function, a connection to the P lead on one of
the mags. The problem arises in that when you are doing a mag check,
you will only get a tach reading when the mag that is connected to the
EIS is hot. When you ground this mag, you lose your tach, and so it is
hard to judge if you are getting a uniform mag drop. Some have dealt
with this by installing a switch, to select the respective mag, but I
did not like this.
I considered building a micro-controller based mag selector, but this
got complicated, as the very dirty P lead signal needed a lot of
conditioning for the uP to deal with it, and the system got complex as I
added relays to switch the connections. Also, I didn't like running
the dirty P lead around the instrument panel.
While looking through Van's catalog, I saw that they offered a
transducer that connected to the Tach drive on a Lyc and fed a signal to
their electronic tach. Obviously, since this is a mechanical take-off,
it will show the RPM regardless of the mag selected. I bought one of
the transducers and with the help of a couple of RV-list folks,
confirmed the correct wire connections ( red +12vdc, black
ground, white signal).
I put this on the workbench and hooked it up to an oscilloscope, and
drove it from my drill press at several known RPMs (which turned out to
be overkill since you can turn the input by hand and just count the
pulses). The transducer puts out 8 pulses per revolution, and each
pulse goes from ground to +12vdc. This makes it perfect to interface
with the EIS, which allows you to select from 0.5 to 10 pulsed per
revolution and needs a pulse that is at least 9 volts above ground.
While I am using a dual mag setup, obviously this is also a good
solution for those that are using one mag and one electronic ignition.
The transducer is very well made and has no real friction to it. I
assume that it is either and optical or hall effect sensor. I assume
that this will last very well.
Hope this is helpful to others that may be looking for a similar
solution.
Mel Jordan
Tucson, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Koger sunshade placement RV6a tipup |
In a message dated 6/18/2002 6:45:10 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bob(at)theblums.net writes:
> I have a tipup canopy on my RV6a, and recently purchased a Koger sunshade.
> About how far forward of the trailing edge of the tipup have you placed the
> rear edge of the sunshade rail? I would like to mount it as close as
> possible to the rear edge. Are there any issues with the canopy safety
> latch when the rail is mounted above it?
You need to make sure that the cantilevered (loose front flaps) section of
the shade can span the distance to reach the Velcro patches on the front
canopy arch without the front thumbnut running off the end of the rail, so
don't place the rail too far aft.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 525hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | boarding step 8-8A |
has anyone installing the boarding step had a mismatch
between the step and the skin? (at the lower radius)
if so had did you make it fit? Mine is already drilled
and I have about a 1/4" gap at the lower radius. I
know that the fairing will cover this but I dont like
the idea of having a gap there for corrosion reasons
and I have serious doubts that I can get the rivets to
take a good shop head without wrinkling the fuselage
outer skin,and the fact that it plainly does not look
right. Any ideas?
Glenn Williams
Fort Worth, Texas
A&P
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: boarding step 8-8A |
A number of us have had trouble with the fit. It seems the best answer is to
try to reshape the weldment by bending and hammering on it before you drill
it to the fuselage. If you've already drilled it, I guess you'll have to
either fill the gap with a spacer or just accept it as is.
Jerry Carter
RV-8A
135 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "glenn williams" <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: boarding step 8-8A
>
> has anyone installing the boarding step had a mismatch
> between the step and the skin? (at the lower radius)
> if so had did you make it fit? Mine is already drilled
> and I have about a 1/4" gap at the lower radius. I
> know that the fairing will cover this but I dont like
> the idea of having a gap there for corrosion reasons
> and I have serious doubts that I can get the rivets to
> take a good shop head without wrinkling the fuselage
> outer skin,and the fact that it plainly does not look
> right. Any ideas?
>
> Glenn Williams
> Fort Worth, Texas
> A&P
>
> ====
> Glenn Williams
> 8A
> A&P
> N81GW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Sunshade for all RV's |
I came across a baby sun screen at the dollar store (the only
enterainment after lunch at the local strip mall at work....). This
thing is real neat......they fold up with a twisting figure 8 motion and
fit into a pocket. They are made of a very fine black mesh that you can
see thru, has a little suction cup in the center and the postage meter
at work can't register the weight. They actually do cut down on the sun
and heat....I am experimenting with it on my commute home. Anyway,
baby-r-us carries them and the new mom at work said she has seen them in
her recent baby shopping trips. They look good in the RV too.........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sjhdcl(at)kingston.net |
| Subject: | Re: boarding step 8-8A |
I installed the steps in my 7A. Anywhere the face didn't touch the fuselage
skin I removed part of the faceplate. In the end I have 4 less rivets holding
the faceplate to the skin then recommended. I'm very happy with the fit and it
looks great. See website below.
Actually I can take some better pictures for you tonight if you wish.
Steve
RV-7A
http://members.kingston.net/sjhdcl/fuse_pg2.htm
Quoting Jerry Carter :
>
> A number of us have had trouble with the fit. It seems the best answer is
> to
> try to reshape the weldment by bending and hammering on it before you drill
> it to the fuselage. If you've already drilled it, I guess you'll have to
> either fill the gap with a spacer or just accept it as is.
>
> Jerry Carter
> RV-8A
> 135 hrs
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "glenn williams" <willig10(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: boarding step 8-8A
>
>
> >
> > has anyone installing the boarding step had a mismatch
> > between the step and the skin? (at the lower radius)
> > if so had did you make it fit? Mine is already drilled
> > and I have about a 1/4" gap at the lower radius. I
> > know that the fairing will cover this but I dont like
> > the idea of having a gap there for corrosion reasons
> > and I have serious doubts that I can get the rivets to
> > take a good shop head without wrinkling the fuselage
> > outer skin,and the fact that it plainly does not look
> > right. Any ideas?
> >
> > Glenn Williams
> > Fort Worth, Texas
> > A&P
> >
> > ====
> > Glenn Williams
> > 8A
> > A&P
> > N81GW
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sunshade for all RV's |
Is this it?
http://www.bluelight.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1029372
It's says it'll fit an RV! :o)
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Sunshade for all RV's
Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 09:00:02 -0400
I came across a baby sun screen at the dollar store (the only
enterainment after lunch at the local strip mall at work....). This
thing is real neat......they fold up with a twisting figure 8 motion and
fit into a pocket. They are made of a very fine black mesh that you can
see thru, has a little suction cup in the center and the postage meter
at work can't register the weight. They actually do cut down on the sun
and heat....I am experimenting with it on my commute home. Anyway,
baby-r-us carries them and the new mom at work said she has seen them in
her recent baby shopping trips. They look good in the RV too.........
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
Hi all...
I need to put together a 25# ballast bag for when I am flying solo and was
wondering if anyone had a list of tools & stuff they regularly take with
them...
Thanks!
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - 23hrs
http://vondane.com/rv8a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Help on selecting tools |
>> For my hand squeezer (and pneumatic) I have a longeron yoke, 3" deep
yoke, and the tight access yoke (one side with no hole and 1" reach I
think). I'm almost done the fuselage and these yokes have served me fine. I
use all of them. <<
Although Steve has the Caddilac solution I don't think that it is necessary.
Also, a couple of "long reach" yokes and a good pneumatic squeezer will add
about $1,000US to your project. I would suggest that you get an Avery hand
squeezer with a 1 1/2" yoke, then make a decision on additional tools later
based upon your own experience. You may be able to buy used, which will
cost you almost nothing if you later sell it.
I'm almost finished all of my riveting and I think that the 1 1/2" yoke does
at least 95% of the rivets that could be reached by a squeezer. Perhaps 50%
of your rivets are not on an open edge so you have to use the rivet
tool/bucking bar a lot, anyway. Many people swear by the pneumatic tool - I
guess they don't mind dragging a hose and heavy tool around, or they have
Popeye arms from hand squeezing. You only rivet once. A $1,000 invested in
instrumments will last a lifetime.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 25% Complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil temperature |
Internal oil temps run 40*-50* hotter than at the probe. The oil temp
sensor is shortly downstream of the oil cooler and reflects the temperature
of the oil after it has visited the cooler. That's why Lycoming uses 165*
as the bottom of the green arc - so the oil inside the engine is still hot
enough to boil off the water.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> I have noticed many listings reporting oil temperatures of 180 degrees as
> desirable and 210 degrees as too hot.
>
> I would think you would want an oil temperature of at least 212 degrees
> to boil off any water condensed in the oil. Please let me know if I am
> wrong.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Help on selecting tools |
I too have found a longeron yoke, 3" yoke and no set yoke is the ultimate
way to go. I would much rather squeeze than buck. If you really want a
Porsche tool (heck with a Caddy:-), spend an extra few bucks and get a
pneumatic cleco tool. You talking about a breeze.....
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
7 emp. complete, spars done.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus" <marcustuck(at)cwcom.net> |
| Subject: | Vans Tachometer Transducer |
A much simpler system is to use the technique employed on the Rocky Mountain
Instrument Monitor (you can down load there instillation manual from there
website, it explains the system), connect a 0.1 microfarad capacitor (the
capacitor should cost less than $0.05 each) to each of the P terminals and
then joint the other end of the 2 capacitors together to feed the gauge.
The P lead uses DC to 'short' the magneto to stop it, a capacitor only
passes AC. This will allow the RPM to me measure from either or both
magnetos. As both magnetos should be timed together they both produce a
pulse at the same time and so you do not get false RPM indications. An
added bonus is that if the capacitors are connect directly to the magneto,
if the signal wire from the capacitors is accidentally shorted the magneto
will still run.
I hope this is of help for someone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
>
>Hi all...
>
>I need to put together a 25# ballast bag for when I am flying solo and was
>wondering if anyone had a list of tools & stuff they regularly take with
>them...
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Bill VonDane
>RV-8A - 23hrs
>http://vondane.com/rv8a
This all fits in my small canvas tool bag. I've used it more on others'
planes than on mine. Not listing stuff like extra oil, portable radio, and
survival gear.
1/4 drive socket set
set of screwdrivers (as needed for your airframe)
set of end wrenches
small chanel locks, needle nose, side cutters, regular pliers
spare safety wire, safety wire pliers
RTV silicone, JB Weld, thread locker red and blue, thread sealant
wire strippers, crimp pliers, selection of wire ends and a little spare wire
selection of replacement screws, nuts, bolts, cotter pins per your airframe
duct tape, electrical tape
If you're going way out in the boonies add:
bicycle tire pump
tire stop leak or tube patch kit
If you're heading out into the Caribbean, well, you've got another list to
work on.
Mike
Oregon to Angel Falls, Venezuela, November/December 2000
http://home.teleport.com/~jmpcrftr/Main.htm
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Aurora, OR
13B in gestation mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | V-speed question |
Got this one from an Ozzie (Australian for my fellow Yanks) website:
Vbg - best power-off glide - the CAS that provides minimum drag thus maximum
L/D, or glide ratio, consequently greatest flight distance available from
the potential energy of height. It is the same aoa as Vbr but slightly lower
airspeed and decreases as the aircraft weight decreases from MTOW
I've also seen it as Vg.
My personal opinion is that you can use whatever designation you want as
long as you define it somewhere. My personal favorite V-speed for best
glide is Vos - Oh Sh:t! I lost the engine!!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy@rv-8.com]
Subject: RV-List: V-speed question
What is the "V" speed designator for "best glide"? (such as Vso for stall
speed).
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 182 hours
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help on selecting tools |
>
> >> For my hand squeezer (and pneumatic) I have a longeron yoke, 3" deep
Next airplane, I'll get a power squeezer. I'm sure I could resell it later.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Tachometer Transducer |
If you are using individual magneto switches rather than the key switch
(IMHO the key switch weighs too much and it is inflexible for engine
testing) you can simply use double pole double throw switches for each mag
switch and wire them so that the mag is always fed with the operating mag
signal. This is OK when both switches are hot, too. Only one mag signal
sent to instrument at a time. No "double pulses" sent to instrument if mag
timing not exactly identical.
The capacitor solution might be a little tricky. The capacitors should be
chosen to take quite a high AC current. When one mag is grounded, these two
capacitors are in series to ground from the other operating mag. In effect,
these capacitors are parallel to the capacitor installed in the mag which is
there to reduce points arcing.
Also, when both mags are selected, the P-Leads are essentially tied together
through the capacitors. I'm not sure this is a good idea.
I tried replacing one of these mag points capacitors with a capacitor which
I thought was superior. Well, the engine worked fine for a few revolutions
until the capacitor fried. Does Rocky Mountain specify the capacitors for
this solution?
Garth Shearing
VariEze and 80% RV6A
Victoria BC Canada
|
| A much simpler system is to use the technique employed on the Rocky
Mountain
| Instrument Monitor (you can down load there instillation manual from there
| website, it explains the system), connect a 0.1 microfarad capacitor (the
| capacitor should cost less than $0.05 each) to each of the P terminals and
| then joint the other end of the 2 capacitors together to feed the gauge.
| The P lead uses DC to 'short' the magneto to stop it, a capacitor only
| passes AC. This will allow the RPM to me measure from either or both
| magnetos. As both magnetos should be timed together they both produce a
| pulse at the same time and so you do not get false RPM indications. An
| added bonus is that if the capacitors are connect directly to the magneto,
| if the signal wire from the capacitors is accidentally shorted the magneto
| will still run.
|
| I hope this is of help for someone.
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Testing the static system... |
Hi all...
I am looking for a nice easy way to test my (van's standard pop-rivet)
static system for leaks...
Thanks...
-Bill
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Chipley" <craigchipley(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety & Operating Costs |
I agree, but the problem being, in todays get 'em in and get 'em out flight
training enviroment, little if any training is given on proper leaning
technique. At least, my instructor never did. And, I only recall three
questions on the FAA exam about leaning, or rather only about the hazards of
it. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction to learn more of this.
Thanks, craig
>From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "rv list"
>Subject: RV-List: Safety & Operating Costs
>Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2002 19:40:46 -0700
>
>
>I have been asked for my thoughts on the use of EGT equipment. Will add
>my observations as related to engine fuel mixtures to the recent
>discussions on the subject.
>
>One of the first jobs I had after leaving the air force at the end of
>WWll was instructing and flying charter trips for a small FBO. They also
>had a engine overhaul facility, when there was no flying to do I filled
>in in the engine shop. With no overhaul experience I spent my time in
>the clean-up dept. dismantling parts and removing valves from cylinders.
>This is were I noticed the wide range of conditions of cylinders and in
>particular the exhaust valves. The exhaust valves on one engine would be
>burnt and another engine with about the same time on it would be
>carboned up and the rings stuck from carbon build-up and all the
>variations in between. The shop foreman explained the reasons, one
>running too lean the other too rich and he got me started on the proper
>use of the mixture control.
>
>All we had to go by in those days was in the case of a fixed pitch prop
>lean till we got a rise in rpm and then richen up. With a cs prop lean
>till we got an increase in airspeed or loss of airspeed then richen up.
>Now with having to pay the engine maintenance costs ourselves instead of
>the air force I tended to run a bit on the rich side. In any case not a
>very accurate way to handle the mixture. A lot of the big radial engines
>used automatic carbs so the mixture was taken care of for you.
>
>With the advent of the EGT gauge the whole process changed. One probe
>installed on the leanest running cylinder gives us the ability to lean
>accurately, now we can get maximum valve life and at the same time the
>best fuel consumption.
>
>Now we take it a step further and install a probe on all cylinders, now
>we can see what's going on in each cylinder and by comparing we have a
>poor man's engine analyzer. If one is say running a lot cooler we know
>we have a problem, could be a bad plug or wire or a valve leaking or
>sticking or in the case of a fuel injected engine a bad nozzle. It will
>also tell us if we have a carb that is acting up, an example would be
>not able to get a sufficient rise when leaning to peak indicating a lean
>carb or malfunctioning throttle body.
>
>Then we go another step further and add CHT on all cylinders with a
>graphic display, now in addition to all the other info we can take the
>best care of our engine by managing our cylinder head temps properly.
>
>Over the years a lot of my flying has been single engine over a lot of
>sparsely settled areas and rough terrain and this equipment would sure
>have added a lot to the peace of mind. When you are 300 to 400 miles
>from the nearest airport I tend to take a real interest in how the
>engine is running.
>
>The greatest advantage in this type of equipment for me is if properly
>monitored it will give lots of advanced warning of a problem.
>
>Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Testing the static system... |
| From: | Denis Walsh <deniswalsh(at)earthlink.net> |
The best easy cheap non stressful way (Sound like a Von Dane?) I have heard
of is compliments of Tom Redfield. He put strips of duct tape on the two
source holes, recorded the altimeter reading and went off and left it
overnight. The altimeter should read the same in a day or two. For the
final step, remove tape and note the altimeter changes.
Denis
> From: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2002 21:29:24 +0000
> To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com,
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Testing the static system...
>
>
> Hi all...
>
> I am looking for a nice easy way to test my (van's standard pop-rivet)
> static system for leaks...
>
> Thanks...
>
> -Bill
>
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Vans Tachometer Transducer vs Rocky Mountain |
In a message dated 6/19/2002 8:30:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
marcustuck(at)cwcom.net writes:
> A much simpler system is to use the technique employed on the Rocky Mountain
> Instrument Monitor (you can down load there instillation manual from there
> website, it explains the system), connect a 0.1 microfarad capacitor (the
> capacitor should cost less than $0.05 each) to each of the P terminals and
> then joint the other end of the 2 capacitors together to feed the gauge.
> The P lead uses DC to 'short' the magneto to stop it, a capacitor only
> passes AC. This will allow the RPM to me measure from either or both
> magnetos. As both magnetos should be timed together they both produce a
> pulse at the same time and so you do not get false RPM indications. An
> added bonus is that if the capacitors are connect directly to the magneto,
> if the signal wire from the capacitors is accidentally shorted the magneto
> will still run.
>
This is not exactly correct. The Rocky Mountain system then feeds this
signal into a 555 timer circuit. The first pulse in from one of the mags
triggers the 555 timer and masks off the second mags signal. Both mags will
not fire at the same time.
If the lead to the capacitor from the mag gets shorted to ground the mag will
NOT RUN. On my engine monitor I use a Hall Efect transducer that screws into
the vent hole of the mag. This way if anything gets shorted the mag will
still work.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed Ignition, (again?) |
I know this has been discussed before, but not for several months.
I'm looking for some real life results from those who have replaced a mag with
the Lightspeed Ignition. I'll put one in my 6 if the benefits are worthwhile,
but if it's just another black box, I'd just as soon save the money for the
RV-10. If you've actually installed one in your plane, could you please let me
know how it is.
1] actual significant performance benefits? (rpm or MP changes?)
2] significant changes in fuel consumption? (at both high and low altitudes at
cruise power settings?)
3] engine smoothness?
4] any surprises in the installation process?
5] preferences between the direct or hall sensor systems?
6] In comparing the II and the II+, it seems that the only difference is cockpit
display options. Since I already have a tach and MP, the only thing to gain is
the timing advance indicator. Is this worthwhile and usable information, or is
it just another flashing light that I'll never really use.
7] Any thoughts on the new III system. Are the benefits noticeable and
worthwhile?
8] anything else about it worth mentioning?
Thanks,
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Safety & Operating Costs |
There is a good practical article on mixture and leaning at:
www.avweb.com/articles/pelperch/pelp0018.html
Garth Shearing
VariEze and 80% RV6A
Victoria BC Canada
. And, I only recall three
| questions on the FAA exam about leaning, or rather only about the hazards
of
| it. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction to learn more of
this.
| Thanks, craig
|
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
Has anyone done a weight study of different panel options ??? I'm thinking
of the difference between a Vision Microsystems system and a complete set of
Mitchell gauges; or Rochester gauges (I have a couple of these and they are
heavy!!). I'm wondering if there is a weight advantage or penalty to "steam
gauges".
Cheers,
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II -fuselage-
larry(at)ncproto.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Ignition, (again?) |
Andy,
I have two Lightspeed electronic ignitions on my RV6A that uses an O-320
160-HP engine.
One unit was the 'original' that cost around $1400 as I recall. It uses the
Hall effect system.
I used it on the right side, and kept the left mag as back-up just in case.
I was pleased with it so I put the newer $700 (?) unit into the left side.
It too has the Hall effect system.
I like the units. I see no reason for any cockpit indicators for the system.
Maximum RPM is unchanged...limited by my prop.
MP seems the same
Fuel use...right now, I get about 7GPH (Matronics fuel flow meter readings)
at 2,300 RPM doing an honest 175TAS. If I am just fooling around, I cut the
throttle back to 2050RPM and consistently see the fuel flow moving back and
forth between 3.9 GPH and 4.0 GPH.
Smoothness? Well I have a Warnke wood prop, so that is fairly smooth
already, but I added a Landoll dynamic system that evened out the
prop/piston impulses even more. It is now VERY smooth!
I like the Hall system. It is very simple to time the engine...just twist
till the light comes on (on the earlier unit it was until the light went
out) and the timing is set. So simple.
During run up, I set throttle to 1,700RPM and serially kill one ignition
system. Nothing happens. RPM doesn't move one bit. Same when the opposite
side is on only. Same thing during flight. Flies without any perceptable
change if one side is turned off. (I used toggle switches to turn power
on/off to the units.)
I installed the electronics package on the fore/aft ribs between the
firewall and the subpanel...awkward on an already built plane, but do-able.
Questions? I will try to answer any.,
John at Salida, CO (lots of smoke from the fires here today!!!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Whitman" <wyvern1(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed Ignition, (again?) |
Regarding any electronic ignition, do any of them give the advantage of
using the nevolving unleaded 91/98?octane? avfuel in the larger engines? I
understand the new unleaded fuel will be "transparent" to 60%+ of the GA
fleet, but larger engines seem to need either TEL, compression sensing
electronic ignition not available yet, or FADEC at BIG $.
I'm hoping to find an engine system which can use the new fuel in the RV-10
for the decade to come.
Tim Whitman
600 flight hrs on 6A, looking toward the -10
Wyvern1(at)attbi.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed Ignition, (again?)
>
> I know this has been discussed before, but not for several months.
>
> I'm looking for some real life results from those who have replaced a mag
with
> the Lightspeed Ignition
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | TwoAviators <TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net> |
| Subject: | Cowlflaps anyone? |
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WillUribe(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV6A engine overheated in El Paso, TX |
http://www.borderlandnews.com/updates/crash.jpg
A 75-year-old pilot walked away with only minor injuries when the small
homemade experimental plane he was flying made a crash landing at El Paso
International Airport Wednesday morning.FAA spokesman Roland Herwig said the
planes engine overheated while on a test flight over the city.The accident
happened at 8:05 a.m. as the pilot, West Side resident Rollie Quinn,
attempted to land on runway 26.Quinn had been in the air for about 15 minutes
before having engine trouble, Quinn said.I just have a cut lip and a bruised
pocketbook, Quinn said. Thats a tough little airplane or I would have
been hurt a lot worse.On landing, the aircraft apparently veered off the
runway, flipped over and came to rest in the dirt. The airplane was heavily
damaged in the accident.Quinn, a pilot since 1994, and his son Roderick Quinn
had spent years building the plane.It took four years to build it and 15
minutes for it to be destroyed, Quinn said.The plane, an RV6A low wing
two-seater, is a popular home built aircraft among many flight enthusiasts.El
Paso International Airport spokeswoman Liz Bellegarde said the crash landing
will be investigated by both the NTSB and FAA.Bellegarde said airplanes were
only delayed when the RV6A made its crash landing, but were not otherwise
held up afterward.Quinn said the RV6A and all the necessary equipmennt for it
costs between $35,000 and $40,000.Quinn is not sure yet if he will rebuild
this plane or build another one.
Will Uribe
El Paso, TX
FireStar II N4GU
C-172 N2506U
http://home.elp.rr.com/airplane/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vans Tachometer Transducer |
The end of the first sentence of my earlier posting should read "so that the
instrument is always fed with the operating mag signal".
Garth Shearing
VariEze and 80% RV6A
Victoria BC Canada
| If you are using individual magneto switches rather than the key switch
| (IMHO the key switch weighs too much and it is inflexible for engine
| testing) you can simply use double pole double throw switches for each mag
| switch and wire them so that the mag is always fed with the operating mag
| signal. This is OK when both switches are hot, too. Only one mag signal
| sent to instrument at a time. No "double pulses" sent to instrument if
mag
| timing not exactly identical.
|
| The capacitor solution might be a little tricky. The capacitors should be
| chosen to take quite a high AC current. When one mag is grounded, these
two
| capacitors are in series to ground from the other operating mag. In
effect,
| these capacitors are parallel to the capacitor installed in the mag which
is
| there to reduce points arcing.
|
| Also, when both mags are selected, the P-Leads are essentially tied
together
| through the capacitors. I'm not sure this is a good idea.
|
| I tried replacing one of these mag points capacitors with a capacitor
which
| I thought was superior. Well, the engine worked fine for a few
revolutions
| until the capacitor fried. Does Rocky Mountain specify the capacitors for
| this solution?
|
| Garth Shearing
| VariEze and 80% RV6A
| Victoria BC Canada
|
|
| |
| | A much simpler system is to use the technique employed on the Rocky
| Mountain
| | Instrument Monitor (you can down load there instillation manual from
there
| | website, it explains the system), connect a 0.1 microfarad capacitor
(the
| | capacitor should cost less than $0.05 each) to each of the P terminals
and
| | then joint the other end of the 2 capacitors together to feed the gauge.
| | The P lead uses DC to 'short' the magneto to stop it, a capacitor only
| | passes AC. This will allow the RPM to me measure from either or both
| | magnetos. As both magnetos should be timed together they both produce a
| | pulse at the same time and so you do not get false RPM indications. An
| | added bonus is that if the capacitors are connect directly to the
magneto,
| | if the signal wire from the capacitors is accidentally shorted the
magneto
| | will still run.
| |
| | I hope this is of help for someone.
| |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Cowlflaps anyone? |
Hi guys,
I did. Once with an additional oil cooler and a seperated NACA inlet on the
right side and an air outlet in a shape of a gill at the lower cowling. For the
time no experiences. I am shortly prior the first flight
Stephan Servatius
80303
Germany
TwoAviators schrieb:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators
>
> Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
> the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
> the high pressure above the engine.
>
> Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
> simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
> might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
>
> Well what do ya think?
>
>
Stephan Servatius
Untere Hauptstr. 3
85461 Bockhorn
Germany
________________________________________________________________________________
If you want to see what Lycoming says about leaning, look at this web site-
it has Lycoming publications on a number of engine-operation subjects,
including leaning:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/index.html
Ed Winne
RV9A
Palmyra PA
>I agree, but the problem being, in todays get 'em in and get 'em out flight
training enviroment, little if any training is given on proper leaning
technique. At least, my instructor never did. And, I only recall three
questions on the FAA exam about leaning, or rather only about the hazards of
it. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction to learn more of this.
Thanks, craig<
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
08:39:40 AM
Last weekend Ken Sebok and I tried a similar experiment with his cowl. He's
been fighting cooling problems for months. We removed a 2" strip of glass
from the bottom of the cowl right below where the exhaust pipes exit. Then
we put on a strip of metal that spans the width of the area we cut out
(approx 11"). The metal strip was bent to a 45 degree angle relative to the
slipstream. The idea is to create a low pressure area. We then went and
did touch and go's. The temps at cruise were pretty much the same, but
unlike normally, they dropped quickly and significantly in the pattern,
once MP was reduced. This was new, so I have to believe the alteration
worked. He still has a cooling problem at cruise, which is baffeling, no
pun intended since we've checked that many times. The mystery continues.
Eric
TwoAviators (at)matronics.com on 06/19/2002
11:00:51 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kuehn, George" <George.Kuehn(at)ost.dot.gov> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: Cowlflaps anyone? |
Check out Greg Hale's RV-8 site. http://www.nwacaptain.com/
I think Van also experimented with cowl flaps on the 8.
-----Original Message-----
From: TwoAviators [mailto:TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net]
Subject: RV8-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
--> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
What size are the hoses to the oil cooler?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Last weekend Ken Sebok and I tried a similar experiment with his cowl. He's
been fighting cooling problems for months. We removed a 2" strip of glass
from the bottom of the cowl right below where the exhaust pipes exit. Then
we put on a strip of metal that spans the width of the area we cut out
(approx 11"). The metal strip was bent to a 45 degree angle relative to the
slipstream. The idea is to create a low pressure area. We then went and
did touch and go's. The temps at cruise were pretty much the same, but
unlike normally, they dropped quickly and significantly in the pattern,
once MP was reduced. This was new, so I have to believe the alteration
worked. He still has a cooling problem at cruise, which is baffeling, no
pun intended since we've checked that many times. The mystery continues.
Eric
TwoAviators (at)matronics.com on 06/19/2002
11:00:51 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
09:17:52 AM
5/8 ID, he's on his second or third oil cooler. Has moved it from remote on
the firewall to the back baffle. Has an oil filter with a JC Whittney heat
sinc. Temps now stay about 218 at cruise and the gauge checked out OK. Any
more ideas? We're definitely open to suggestions. I'm sure the big SW oil
cooler will do the trick but what the heck, everyone else is blocking off
their standard coolers? What gives. Vernatherm checks 5.0 btw.
Eric
"Cy Galley" (at)matronics.com on 06/20/2002 08:56:37 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
What size are the hoses to the oil cooler?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Last weekend Ken Sebok and I tried a similar experiment with his cowl. He's
been fighting cooling problems for months. We removed a 2" strip of glass
from the bottom of the cowl right below where the exhaust pipes exit. Then
we put on a strip of metal that spans the width of the area we cut out
(approx 11"). The metal strip was bent to a 45 degree angle relative to the
slipstream. The idea is to create a low pressure area. We then went and
did touch and go's. The temps at cruise were pretty much the same, but
unlike normally, they dropped quickly and significantly in the pattern,
once MP was reduced. This was new, so I have to believe the alteration
worked. He still has a cooling problem at cruise, which is baffeling, no
pun intended since we've checked that many times. The mystery continues.
Eric
TwoAviators (at)matronics.com on 06/19/2002
11:00:51 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Sisson <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> |
This is a real good web site, thanks Ed...
Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL
Ewinne(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> If you want to see what Lycoming says about leaning, look at this web site-
> it has Lycoming publications on a number of engine-operation subjects,
> including leaning:
>
> http://www.lycoming.textron.com/support/publications/index.html
>
> Ed Winne
> RV9A
> Palmyra PA
>
> >I agree, but the problem being, in todays get 'em in and get 'em out flight
> training enviroment, little if any training is given on proper leaning
> technique. At least, my instructor never did. And, I only recall three
> questions on the FAA exam about leaning, or rather only about the hazards of
> it. Maybe someone can point me in the right direction to learn more of this.
> Thanks, craig<
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun Screen for RV's |
Yup, I use two of em on the RV-4 . They are really slick and do the job.
K-Mart link enclosed is a good picture of it....
http://www.bluelight.com/product/index.jsp?productId=1029372
It's says it'll fit an RV! :o)
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Sunshade for all RV's
I came across a baby sun screen at the dollar store (the only
enterainment after lunch at the local strip mall at work....). This
thing is real neat......they fold up with a twisting figure 8 motion and
fit into a pocket. They are made of a very fine black mesh that you can
see thru, has a little suction cup in the center and the postage meter
at work can't register the weight. They actually do cut down on the sun
and heat....I am experimenting with it on my commute home. Anyway,
baby-r-us carries them and the new mom at work said she has seen them in
her recent baby shopping trips. They look good in the RV too.........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
I saw an RV-6A at SNF a year or two ago that had two louvered vents installed on
the bottom on the cowl. They appeared to be about 6" x 9", one on each side.
I asked the owner about them and he said that they cured all
his overheating problems. They would certainly be easier to install than
cowl flaps. He said he got them from the Pitts folks.
Tommy Walker
6A Finishing
Ridgetop, TN
----- Original Message -----
From: TwoAviators
Subject: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be
a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: what does the FAA like to read in the log books for a condition |
inspectio
> what does the FAA like to read in the log books for a condition inspection?
>
>
Is this what most folks add to the log books ???
Will, After your annual insp. of your aircraft, enter into your
aircraft
log , the following ____ Date, recorded tach time, and " I find this
aircraft to be in safe operating condition and certify it has been
inspected
as per appendix D of FAR 43" Follow with your name and repairmans
cert. #
Safe flying
Bob Griffin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
Did Ken build the hoses? Are there right angle hose ends or is he using
fitting to change directions. If the hoses were fabricated I would remove
and make sure that when the ends were installed that some of the lining
wasn't cut. Some times a little flap of material obstructs the passage.
I've been told that the right angle hose end fittings also restricts oil
flow.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
5/8 ID, he's on his second or third oil cooler. Has moved it from remote on
the firewall to the back baffle. Has an oil filter with a JC Whittney heat
sinc. Temps now stay about 218 at cruise and the gauge checked out OK. Any
more ideas? We're definitely open to suggestions. I'm sure the big SW oil
cooler will do the trick but what the heck, everyone else is blocking off
their standard coolers? What gives. Vernatherm checks 5.0 btw.
Eric
"Cy Galley" (at)matronics.com on 06/20/2002 08:56:37 AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
What size are the hoses to the oil cooler?
----- Original Message -----
From: <Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Last weekend Ken Sebok and I tried a similar experiment with his cowl. He's
been fighting cooling problems for months. We removed a 2" strip of glass
from the bottom of the cowl right below where the exhaust pipes exit. Then
we put on a strip of metal that spans the width of the area we cut out
(approx 11"). The metal strip was bent to a 45 degree angle relative to the
slipstream. The idea is to create a low pressure area. We then went and
did touch and go's. The temps at cruise were pretty much the same, but
unlike normally, they dropped quickly and significantly in the pattern,
once MP was reduced. This was new, so I have to believe the alteration
worked. He still has a cooling problem at cruise, which is baffeling, no
pun intended since we've checked that many times. The mystery continues.
Eric
TwoAviators (at)matronics.com on 06/19/2002
11:00:51 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Help on selecting tools |
Hi Jim,
I'm just working on my empennage as well. I splurged for the Pneumatic
squeezer from Avery when they were on sale before Christmas. I think
the prices are still the lowest around, for what it's worth.
So far, I haven't used it for any rivets, because I bought a few rivet
sets that are too long... 8-P The combination of my 1/2" thick flat set
and 3/8" thick cupped set is too thick to squeeze the rivets on my
horizontal stab spar, so I haven't done it yet. New sets are on order
from Brown Aviation Tools, so I can get going again. I'd recommend
getting a range of flat sizes (I'm ordering 1/8", 1/4", and 3/8" from
Brown), and the shortest cupped sizes available (Brown sells 1/4" thick
cupped sets). I've got the adjustable set for the Pneumatic squeezer,
but want the variety in sets anyway, if I ever buy a hand squeezer.
It works like a hot damn for dimpling, though... It's really nice to use
for that.
I bought it with the 3" yoke, and I do notice that it flexes a bit when
squeezing (even while dimpling). It's not much, but it's just visible.
I'm planning on getting a 1.5" yoke sometime for more rigidity, and a
no-clearance yoke as well. I'll wait until I *really* need them first,
though.
For a good starting point for tools (and some recommendations as to
where's a good cheap place to get them), you can look at my RV website
at http://www.b4.ca/rv7/. There's a "tools" link on the left side.
-RB4
RV7 Empennage
rv7 "at" b4.ca
j1j2h3(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> I am just starting my RV-7 and could use some help on selecting tools.
> For the hand squeezer, what size throat? Can I just get the largest and
> then position it as required, or should I get the one with
> interchangeable throats?
>
> If anyone has used tools for sale, I am interested in buying them.
>
> Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | El Paso RV-6A Accident |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
http://www.borderlandnews.com/stories/borderland/20020620-122718.shtml
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Testing the static system... |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
You need to borrow a vacuum pump from your mechanic with a rubber hose on
it.
Tape one static port & put a piece of tape over the pumping side.
Then use a needle & punch a small hole in the pumping side tape.
Place a second peice of tape over that side,buat not taped down yet.
This limits the lose of vacuum when you remove the pump & cover the small
hole.
The second tape is used to seal the system after you pump her down.
You want to go up slowly. The airspeed will be you limit, but you should
get about 2-3 thousand feet.
She should not loose more that 100 feet in 5 minutes.
Use the over tape to vent it when you want to come back down. The VSI
will become your rate meter.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
writes:
>
> Hi all...
>
> I am looking for a nice easy way to test my (van's standard
> pop-rivet)
> static system for leaks...
>
> Thanks...
>
> -Bill
>
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
>
>
>
> messages.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing the static system... |
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/ftlinks.html
Bill VonDane wrote:
>
> Hi all...
>
> I am looking for a nice easy way to test my (van's standard pop-rivet)
> static system for leaks...
>
> Thanks...
>
> -Bill
>
> MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
> http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Testing the static system... |
Here is the proper way to test the static pressure system per the FAR's.
FAR 23.1325 (b) (i)Unpressurized airplanes. Evacuate the static pressure
system to a pressure differential of approximately 1 inch of mercury or to a
reading on the altimeter, 1,000 feet above the aircraft elevation at the time
of the test. Without additional pumping for a period of 1 minute, the loss
of the indicated altitude must not exceed 100 feet on the altimeter.
1,000ft----1 minute------100ft
To do this test you can purchase a one man brake bleeder from the auto parts
store for about $20.00. This will provide your vacuum source.(Can also be
used to bleed your brakes.) I used my static drain to connect the vacuum
pump. If you don't have a drain connection you can use a suction cup over
one of the static ports. Don't forget to seal the other one. You don't have
to remove the vacuum pump while you do the test. The main point is not have
any openings other than the one for the vacuum source.
Cash Copeland A&P
RV6 Hayward, Ca
>
>
> You need to borrow a vacuum pump from your mechanic with a rubber hose on
> it.
>
> Tape one static port & put a piece of tape over the pumping side.
> Then use a needle & punch a small hole in the pumping side tape.
> Place a second peice of tape over that side,buat not taped down yet.
> This limits the lose of vacuum when you remove the pump & cover the small
> hole.
> The second tape is used to seal the system after you pump her down.
>
> You want to go up slowly. The airspeed will be you limit, but you should
> get about 2-3 thousand feet.
>
> She should not loose more that 100 feet in 5 minutes.
>
> Use the over tape to vent it when you want to come back down. The VSI
> will become your rate meter.
>
>
> Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
> Arlington, Tx
> *******************************
>
>
> writes:
> >
> > Hi all...
> >
> > I am looking for a nice easy way to test my (van's standard
> > pop-rivet)
> > static system for leaks...
> >
> > Thanks...
> >
> > -Bill
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: K1000-4 center section attach nutplates |
OOPS rivets work great. Only a very shallow countersink is required.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillRVSIX(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | F610 &F611 Angle ? |
Hello on plan #34 it's not very clear on how to make the angles that attach
to the longerons and bulkheads (F610 &F611) it looks like they have a slot in
the ends similar to ones i have put in other angles seem like common practice
to keep the angle from cracking but it's not real clear. thanks
Bill Higgins
RV 6
Pembroke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so clean under
the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the cooling of
the high pressure above the engine.
Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with, might be a
simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the cowling,
might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
Well what do ya think?
From discussion that were on the RV-List years ago when I was having the
same problem, it was determined that adding a lip on the outlet did not help
cooling.
I was running high oil temps all the time during the first 6 months. I had
vapor lock 3 times. (On the ground and never in flight.) All the gas hoses
had firesleaving (spelling) from day one. Three items helped lower the oil
temp on my aircraft.
Opening the bottom of the cowl 2 inches help lower temp a few degrees.
Relocating the Niagara Oil Cooler from firewall (3" SCAT tube connecting it
to the baffle) to the ENGINE MOUNT behind the # 4 cylinder (the rear
cylinder on the left hand side of the aircraft) was the biggest help. The
oil cooler is mounted to the ENGINE MOUNT and there is a small duct
(actually rectangular plenum) the same size as the cooler to the rear
baffle. This idea was stolen from a RV-6 at Copperstate 3 years ago. The
opening in the rear baffle is 3" X 5" or the same size as the oil cooler
opening. If anything, I run a little too cool. Typically I have an oil temp
of 170-175 in cruise. I am almost always running 10 degrees cooler than the
other RVs that I fly with.
In my opinion, moving the oil cooler to just behind the #4 cylinder in a
location that did NOT touch the cylinder head did the most to lower
temperature. My opinion is that there is some heat transfer from the
cylinder head into the Oil Cooler when it is mounted on the baffle. The one
to two inch separation reduces the heat transfer from the cylinder head
(350-375 F) to the oil cooler (175 F). Not sure how much heat transfer
there actually is but the cylinder head is approximate 200 F higher. Going
from a 3" round opening to the oil cooler to a 3" X 5" rectangular opening
off the baffle to the oil cooler did the trick for me.
The third thing that I did (actually 2nd) was to install exhaust wrap on the
exhaust pipes. This is very controversial and is not recommended by many
old timers. This lowered under cowl temperatures a lot and there was a drop
in oil temp. NO Wields, Expansion joints, or ball joints were covered. In
my opinion, the temperature drop in the under cowl temperature was enough
that it was worth the cost of replacing the exhaust system every 500 flying
hours. So far, I have had NO exhaust problems after running the wrap 1,000
hours. Yes I have had to replace sections of the wrap as it wore out and
have replaced all of it at least once. No exhaust pipe parts have been
replaced.
First thing to do is CALIBRATE your temperature measuring device. Both the
sensor and the gauge.
Gary Hart (RV-6, N64GH) had oil temperature problems like I did when he
first flew 1.5 years ago. The opening of the cowl 2" at the outlet caused a
measurable drop in oil temp. (I think he reported between 5 and 8 degree F
drop.) His problem was traced to a BAD Westach GAUGE and BAD Westach
Sender. He replaced all of it with a different brand and saw the
temperatures fall back in line. By this time, his new engine was broke in
so his temperatures were no more than 10 degrees above what I run.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,089.9+ Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.tripod.com
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillRVSIX(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Seat rib and f 604 Rivets |
Hello I started drilling the F 604 bulkhead for the seat ribs and then I
noticed the rivet size on the drawing. I drilled # 31 holes on three ribs not
the #41holes for the 426-3 like the drawing shows. Now my ? is do I keep
drilling the #31 holes and use 470-4 rivets except were the spare hits and
use 426-4 rivets. Or just finish it like the drawing shows. I like the idea
of the 470-4 rivets and not counter sinking the 604 except were needed that
way I keep all the rivets the same it also seems funny that most of all the
other seat ribs have the 470-4 rivets but not on were it attaches to the f
604 bulkhead. Well just looking for your opinion thanks
Bill Higgins
RV-6
Pembroke Ma
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Testing the static system... |
>
>You need to borrow a vacuum pump from your mechanic with a rubber hose on
Or tap into manifold vacuum from your old pickup.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rivet gun and set for sale. |
Taylor 4x rivit gun brand new and rivit set and bucking bars for sale.
Everything on the rivit gun side u need to build a RV. I dont forsee a new
f1 kit anytime in my future, since i had to sell mine, so i am selling some
of my tools. Not enough room. lol. Its 398 bucks on the Avery site. So
make me an offer.
anyways email me off list.
thanks
chris wilcox
f1 rocket builder no more :(
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Nichols" <russnichols(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Airpark home available |
Just in case anyone is looking or knows someone that is...
One of our neighbors is attempting to sell his home. It's on Alta Mesa
Airpark in Wilton, CA. (It's not on the sectionals, yet.) That's about 20
miles southeast of Sacramento.
I don't know the specifics on the home, but I can tell you it's very nice.
The property is 5 acres and it is set up for horses. There isn't a hanger,
but there is room for one. The runway is 2200' and oiled. We plan to pave
when we can afford it. We also have a grass runway that is about 1600'.
If anyone is interested, drop me a note and I'll get you the contact info.
You could be the 2nd RV. There are several Stinsons, a Baron, a few
Bonanzas, and several other various flying contraptions.
thanks,
Russ
russnichols(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowlflaps anyone? |
If you check the archives, there are plenty of folks out there who had
temperature problems. Most of 'em were oil temperature related. A few
(seemingly early RV-8's without the firewall bottom fairing) had CHT problems
in addition to oil temp problems.
In my case, I had oil temps that ran 210 degrees in cruise on any 80F or
higher day, with 220 - 225 readings after a long climb. I switched out the
vernatherm, added a cool collar, switched oil coolers, and checked all the
hoses, etc for obstructions. None of these things made a noticiable
difference. For purposes of reference, my CHT's are great - never above 400,
even on extended climbs, and my oil cooler is mounted flat on the baffle
behind the #3 or #4 cylinder (the aft left one, I forget the convention).
Anyway, at condition inspection time last winter, I was able to open the oil
cooler airflow hole in the baffles by approximately 5/8" x 3.5". I figure
that was an increase in area of 15% or so. It made all the difference.
Since then, my oil temps have never exceeded 210F, and I routinely cruise in
the 180-190F range.
Now, tying back to the original question, I believe that if you have a
properly installed (and properly sized) oil cooler, hoses, etc. and tight
baffles, the cowl and cooling systems on Van's designs is more than adequate.
If someone wants to add cowl flaps or make any other modifications, that's
fine, but in many cases the modifications are probably covering up for an
underlying problem that is correctable.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | Airpark home available |
Hey I might be interested. How close is that to the nudie-ranch?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Russ Nichols [mailto:russnichols(at)msn.com]
Subject: RV-List: Airpark home available
Just in case anyone is looking or knows someone that is...
One of our neighbors is attempting to sell his home. It's on Alta Mesa
Airpark in Wilton, CA. (It's not on the sectionals, yet.) That's about 20
miles southeast of Sacramento.
I don't know the specifics on the home, but I can tell you it's very nice.
The property is 5 acres and it is set up for horses. There isn't a hanger,
but there is room for one. The runway is 2200' and oiled. We plan to pave
when we can afford it. We also have a grass runway that is about 1600'.
If anyone is interested, drop me a note and I'll get you the contact info.
You could be the 2nd RV. There are several Stinsons, a Baron, a few
Bonanzas, and several other various flying contraptions.
thanks,
Russ
russnichols(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
hi all
today my baby got its birth certificate. the labor period lasted about an
hour, then the FAA proudly handed the bouncing lil airplane to me as
airworthy. looking forward to her first walk around the patch, maybe sunday
if weather and test pilot cooperates.
a good day in scotty land
scott
tampa
passed final inspection, whoooo hooooooo
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | V-speed for best glide |
Listers,
I posted a question a day or so ago asking what the designator was for "best
glide". All responses were derivatives of either Vglide (or Vg), or
Vlift/drag. Turns out the correct designator is Vbg, at least according to
this source...
http://www.auf.asn.au/groundschool/umodule2.html
This is a pretty interesting page anyway, you might take a look.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 185 hrs.
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Ferry Flight
Ray,
Regarding your advice to Art, I'll go you one better that I think you will
agree with. I was a 60 hr private pilot when I started learning to fly my
RV-4. Your comment that the rear seat is not a great place for an
instructor to "save" you is very true. Also, the rear rudder pedals don't
have brakes. handy to save a ground loop if the touch down has drift or is
crooked. So here is my solution, I didn't think of it, my instructor did.
Art, have your instructor teach you to fly your RV-4 in your RV-4. But
here's the rub. You fly from the back seat, he sits in front. Once you can
taxi and land from the rear seat. (very doable, thats what I did) Then you
earn the right to fly from the front. Maybe this is overly cautions, but I
found that it sharpened my skills considerably. Every instructor tells you
"don't look over the nose for clues about when to flare. Look at the runway
edge with your peripheral vision". Well, landing an RV-4 from the rear seat
FORCES you to use your peripheral vision. Once you go to the front, you'll
wonder why it was so hard to figure out how to drive this thing, just a few
days ago.
Good luck, take it slow.
Don Mei
N92CT - RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
Art;
Just a suggestion, if you have NO taildragger time,
go get some dual in a Cessna 140, citabria or anything
first, then get a differences checkout in the RV. The
rear seat visibility is poor in the RV4 and not good
for "saving" you baby from mistakes. I personally
wouldn't do it, and I have instructed from the back
seat of the F16D.
Rob Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | structural adhesive/pro seal guns |
I'm looking for some structural adhesive to use on my -8 wing skins. I
found one place that sells it, but has a minimum order and I really don't
need 2 gallons of it.
Has anyone come up with a refillable caulking gun for pro seal? Do
large vet syringes work? With aux tanks I have 4 tanks to build and the
popsicle sticks are seeming kind of stupid. kevin portland (imagine,
picking paint colors for my engine, a 3 rotor!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <michael.j.robbins(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: structural adhesive/pro seal guns |
Kevin;
R.S. Hughes sells 3M adhesives in small quantities. I have used DP190 and
420 extensively on my -8. Buy the kit with the gun and several tubes of
glue. They have a web site and I believe a store in Portland.
Mike Robbins
RV8Q N88MJ flying
Seattle area
>
>I'm looking for some structural adhesive to use on my -8 wing skins. I
>found one place that sells it, but has a minimum order and I really don't
>need 2 gallons of it.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | structural adhesive/pro seal guns |
So you aren't using any rivets on the wing skins?
-
Larry Bowen
RV-8 canopy
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 3 rotor
> Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:43 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: structural adhesive/pro seal guns
>
>
>
> I'm looking for some structural adhesive to use on my -8 wing
> skins. I found one place that sells it, but has a minimum
> order and I really don't need 2 gallons of it.
> Has anyone come up with a refillable caulking gun for pro
> seal? Do large vet syringes work? With aux tanks I have 4
> tanks to build and the
> popsicle sticks are seeming kind of stupid. kevin portland
> (imagine,
> picking paint colors for my engine, a 3 rotor!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | structural adhesive/pro seal guns |
Subject: RV-List: structural adhesive/pro seal guns
I'm looking for some structural adhesive to use on my -8 wing skins. I
found one place that sells it, but has a minimum order and I really don't
need 2 gallons of it.
Has anyone come up with a refillable caulking gun for pro seal? Do
large vet syringes work?
---------------------------------------------
Syringes work and the pro-seal does not stick to the ones that I used so
they were reusable.
Drug stores have some medium sizes and they are not expensive.
Pro-seal can also be thinned out (can't remember if I used MEK or acetone,
they both affect memory) and the thinned pro-seal painted on over screws,
seams etc as a sealer.
George McNutt
Langley B.C.
6A - flying, 34 hours!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | FW: AeroElectric-List: Non Phillips drive screws |
6/20/2002
Hello Fellow Amateur Experimental Aircraft Builders,
Some background: Recently a fellow builder in a posting to a web based
group
that I belong to expressed his complete disgust with Phillips drive
screws. I
responded that there were superior alternatives such as hex socket,
Torx, and
Torx Plus drive screws that were being used in modern aerospace
vehicles, but
that it was very difficult to find and expensive to buy such screws in
small
quantities for our use. There then ensued a series of postings back and
forth
saying "are too" / "are not". The result was a another search on my part
for
such a souce -- I have potentially located one.
John Fleisher of Micro Fasteners has offered to procure and stock some
T20,
Torx drive, 8-32x5/8 inch, 100 degree countersink, flat head screws in
18-8
stainless steel. These will be special ordered, but he will be able to
provide them at an extremely attractive price. (Compare to MS24694C7
Phillips
drive screws from Aircraft Spruce or Skybolt). Before he commits to the
significant expense of stocking these screws he needs some assurance
that
there is indeed a market for these screws at the price he is going to
charge.
Here is where you come in. If you have a sincere interest in purchasing
some
of these screws please contact John very soon by email at
as he will be making his purchase / non
purchase
decision within two weeks. John's proposal, questions, and concerns that
he
must resolve are contained in his email to me (slightly edited) directly
below:
" OC, We can buy 8-32x5/8 100 deg. torx T15 or torx T20 18-8 stainless
to
sell for$14.50/100, and the dollars on our shelf would be small enough
to put
in up to 4 or 5 different sizes if necessary.
This supplier doesn't stock any finished goods, so we couldn't have
saved on
the screws we've supplied to you so far, but for the future we only need
to
feel that we can move 5000-10,000 pieces at those prices to go ahead.
Hex
sockets are only about 10% less expensive, so let's forget them for now.
So if you will indicate to your fraternity that we can supply them at
the
$.15/screw level and see what kind of reaction occurs, we would be
willing
to go ahead and order this size now. Let me know. John @ Micro Fasteners
"
Now some personal notes:
1) I have no dollar dog in this fight -- I am not connected financially
to
Micro Fasteners in any way, but I am a long time satisfied customer and
have
made purchases from them in the past including some very expensive
specially
ordered screws. They have a web site at <> and a
printed catalog for their existing standard products that they will mail
to
you if requested.
2) I too feel that Phillips drive screws are inferior to hex socket,
Torx,
and Torx Plus Drive.
3) The 8-32x5/8 100 degree flat head, T20 Torx drive 18-8 stainless
steel
screws are my recommendation to John based on my perception of the most
commonly needed screw. I could be wrong. If you have more / better
choices
please let John know the specifics, but realize that he can not afford
to
stock too many sizes of specially ordered screws.
4) I feel that these screws are acceptable for structural use in our
amateur
built experimental aircraft. I base this opinion on the fact that the
similar
Phillips drive structural MS24694C screws are also made of 85 ksi
tensile
strength stainless steel.
5) I have searched for a source of such screws for several years without
success until now and I think that John's offer is a significant break
through. I will be letting John know that I will order 300 if he decides
to
stock them based on the responses that he gets.
6) Again, please contact John very soon by email at
if you have a sincere interest. I apologize
for
the use of this group to put out this off topic message, but I feel that
it
could be of real service to many fellow builders.
7) I have one other request, if you participate in some other internet
builder's group and you think that any of their members would benefit
from
this information would you please forward a copy of this posting to that
group? Many thanks.
'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: structural adhesive/pro seal guns |
In a message dated 6/20/2002 8:54:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv8r300(at)attbi.com writes:
> I'm looking for some structural adhesive to use on my -8 wing skins. I
> found one place that sells it, but has a minimum order and I really don't
> need 2 gallons of it.
What brand and part number?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 525hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: structural adhesive/pro seal guns |
just glue and clecoes, I'm in a hurry :-)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: structural adhesive/pro seal guns
>
> So you aren't using any rivets on the wing skins?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> RV-8 canopy
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 3 rotor
> > Sent: Thursday, June 20, 2002 11:43 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: structural adhesive/pro seal guns
> >
> >
> >
> > I'm looking for some structural adhesive to use on my -8 wing
> > skins. I found one place that sells it, but has a minimum
> > order and I really don't need 2 gallons of it.
> > Has anyone come up with a refillable caulking gun for pro
> > seal? Do large vet syringes work? With aux tanks I have 4
> > tanks to build and the
> > popsicle sticks are seeming kind of stupid. kevin portland
> > (imagine,
> > picking paint colors for my engine, a 3 rotor!)
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Seat rib and f 604 Rivets |
Bill,
I've forgotten so much about building the RV-6A, but I think that you will
be sliding your wing spar into the space in front of that F-604 bulkhead and
the flat heads on the seat ribs are essential.
Stephen Soule
Huntington, Vermont
RV-6A N227RV 70 hours
-----Original Message-----Hello I started drilling the F 604 bulkhead for
the seat ribs and then I
noticed the rivet size on the drawing. I drilled # 31 holes on three ribs
not
the #41holes for the 426-3 like the drawing shows. Now my ? is do I keep
drilling the #31 holes and use 470-4 rivets except were the spare hits and
use 426-4 rivets. Or just finish it like the drawing shows. I like the idea
of the 470-4 rivets and not counter sinking the 604 except were needed that
way I keep all the rivets the same it also seems funny that most of all the
other seat ribs have the 470-4 rivets but not on were it attaches to the f
604 bulkhead. Well just looking for your opinion thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Ingram <Ingram(at)SpringfieldElectric.com> |
| Subject: | KING - Wiring Diagrams |
I am looking for wiring diagrams for the King KLN89B, KT76C and the KI209A.
Anybody out there have any of these that I could get a copy of?
Thanks
Ron Ingram
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Jones" <gratech(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun and set for sale. |
Chris, et al.
With out wanting to start an "R-word" war or upset your sales plan may I
respectfully suggest to all those wannabees thinking 'bout this deal that
the only place on any RV (or probably F1 rocket) that you need a 4X gun is
to do the main Wing Spars and perhaps one or two other places wher LARGE
rivets are used......
All other riveting is better done with a 2X and/or maybe a turned down (air
pressure) 3X gun......
Unless of course you use a pressure with the 4X such that you can set a 3/32
rivet with one or two blows of the hammer and control it to only deliver
them [AKA Mission Impossible!].
Graham Jones
Kilmore Australia
RV6A Wings.
1 - 4X gun
1 - 2X gun
1 pneumatic squeezer
1 hand squeezer
Too many memories of seeing 3/32 rivets that had been set with a 4x gun at
30psi+ (not mine).......Ouch!
DNA
----- Original Message -----
From: <CW9371(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Rivet gun and set for sale.
>
> Taylor 4x rivit gun brand new and rivit set and bucking bars for sale.
> Everything on the rivit gun side u need to build a RV. I dont forsee a
new
> f1 kit anytime in my future, since i had to sell mine, so i am selling
some
> of my tools. Not enough room. lol. Its 398 bucks on the Avery site. So
> make me an offer.
>
> anyways email me off list.
>
> thanks
> chris wilcox
> f1 rocket builder no more :(
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
08:11:51 AM
Just a thought, in flying a T-34 from the back seat before graduating to
the front, you had much better visual clues as to what was going on. There
was just much more in front of you and it acted as a gun sight. On landing
you had great pitch clues. Then when you go forward there is nothing but
plexiglass, no nose no nothing. But now you have a feel for the airplane,
and a real good idea of what it takes to fly it. Seemed much safer to me.
"Donald Mei" (at)matronics.com on 06/20/2002 10:09:58 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject:
From: rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV4-List: Ferry Flight
Ray,
Regarding your advice to Art, I'll go you one better that I think you will
agree with. I was a 60 hr private pilot when I started learning to fly my
RV-4. Your comment that the rear seat is not a great place for an
instructor to "save" you is very true. Also, the rear rudder pedals don't
have brakes. handy to save a ground loop if the touch down has drift or is
crooked. So here is my solution, I didn't think of it, my instructor did.
Art, have your instructor teach you to fly your RV-4 in your RV-4. But
here's the rub. You fly from the back seat, he sits in front. Once you
can
taxi and land from the rear seat. (very doable, thats what I did) Then
you
earn the right to fly from the front. Maybe this is overly cautions, but I
found that it sharpened my skills considerably. Every instructor tells you
"don't look over the nose for clues about when to flare. Look at the
runway
edge with your peripheral vision". Well, landing an RV-4 from the rear
seat
FORCES you to use your peripheral vision. Once you go to the front, you'll
wonder why it was so hard to figure out how to drive this thing, just a few
days ago.
Good luck, take it slow.
Don Mei
N92CT - RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
Art;
Just a suggestion, if you have NO taildragger time,
go get some dual in a Cessna 140, citabria or anything
first, then get a differences checkout in the RV. The
rear seat visibility is poor in the RV4 and not good
for "saving" you baby from mistakes. I personally
wouldn't do it, and I have instructed from the back
seat of the F16D.
Rob Ray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
08:17:43 AM
Oh you go Boy, standing by for good reports. And Scotty, you stay away from
those aircraft carriers ya hear. Two words Pha-linx!
Eric
ABAYMAN(at)aol.com@matronics.com on 06/20/2002 07:41:18 PM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: a good day
hi all
today my baby got its birth certificate. the labor period lasted about an
hour, then the FAA proudly handed the bouncing lil airplane to me as
airworthy. looking forward to her first walk around the patch, maybe sunday
if weather and test pilot cooperates.
a good day in scotty land
scott
tampa
passed final inspection, whoooo hooooooo
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Jones" <gratech(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: AeroElectric-List: Non Phillips drive screws |
Once more, without wanting to fan flames, Phillips and crosshead type screws
have generally got a bad rep through misunderstanding and misuse.
One needs to realise that there are several types of "cross head" screws
forms (Parker, Phillips, ISO,to name a few ) and a corresponding set of
screw drivers to perfectly fit them......... You should use the right driver
for the appropriate head.
If you use the wrong type of driver with a screw you will prove just how bad
and hard they are to use.. Typically Phillips have a finer angle in the
tines of the blade than ISO (Japanese M/cycle type) so when you use an ISO
driver (very common) with a Phillips screw the misfit will damage or chew
out the centre of the screw and make it unuseable. The reverse is also
true..... Then there are the types with a smaller secondary flute between
the main tines....
Cross head screws also need a constant downward force supplied as the
twisting motion is applied. This maintains the engagement of the driver
blades to the screw head AND releives the pressure on the faces of the
thread thus actually making it easier to loosen (and conversely tighted) the
screw..... Most cross head screws I have come across in 30 years of
motorcycling, where these are used extensively, have been overtightened for
the required application!
One method that is often used in the M-cycle workshop is to use an impact
driver with the correct driver head for the screw. One hit of a snug screw
with a 10-15 oz hammer to tighten will need one hit to loosen and the screw
heads will last a lot longer as they don't get chewed with the wrong type of
blade. The screws stay tight too.
Still TORX and other more positive parallel engagement methods (what ever
happened to Allen head set screws????) will always be better where
appropriate.
Use the right tool for the job.
Graham Jones
Kilmore Australia
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: FW: AeroElectric-List: Non Phillips drive screws
>
>
> 6/20/2002
>
> Hello Fellow Amateur Experimental Aircraft Builders,
>
> Some background: Recently a fellow builder in a posting to a web based
> group
> that I belong to expressed his complete disgust with Phillips drive
> screws. I
> responded that there were superior alternatives such as hex socket,
> Torx, and
> Torx Plus drive screws that were being used in modern aerospace
> vehicles, but
> that it was very difficult to find and expensive to buy such screws in
> small
> quantities for our use. There then ensued a series of postings back and
> forth
> saying "are too" / "are not". The result was a another search on my part
> for
> such a souce -- I have potentially located one.
>
> John Fleisher of Micro Fasteners has offered to procure and stock some
> T20,
> Torx drive, 8-32x5/8 inch, 100 degree countersink, flat head screws in
> 18-8
> stainless steel. These will be special ordered, but he will be able to
> provide them at an extremely attractive price. (Compare to MS24694C7
> Phillips
> drive screws from Aircraft Spruce or Skybolt). Before he commits to the
> significant expense of stocking these screws he needs some assurance
> that
> there is indeed a market for these screws at the price he is going to
> charge.
>
> Here is where you come in. If you have a sincere interest in purchasing
> some
> of these screws please contact John very soon by email at
> as he will be making his purchase / non
> purchase
> decision within two weeks. John's proposal, questions, and concerns that
> he
> must resolve are contained in his email to me (slightly edited) directly
>
> below:
>
> " OC, We can buy 8-32x5/8 100 deg. torx T15 or torx T20 18-8 stainless
> to
> sell for$14.50/100, and the dollars on our shelf would be small enough
> to put
> in up to 4 or 5 different sizes if necessary.
>
> This supplier doesn't stock any finished goods, so we couldn't have
> saved on
> the screws we've supplied to you so far, but for the future we only need
> to
> feel that we can move 5000-10,000 pieces at those prices to go ahead.
> Hex
> sockets are only about 10% less expensive, so let's forget them for now.
>
> So if you will indicate to your fraternity that we can supply them at
> the
> $.15/screw level and see what kind of reaction occurs, we would be
> willing
> to go ahead and order this size now. Let me know. John @ Micro Fasteners
> "
>
> Now some personal notes:
>
> 1) I have no dollar dog in this fight -- I am not connected financially
> to
> Micro Fasteners in any way, but I am a long time satisfied customer and
> have
> made purchases from them in the past including some very expensive
> specially
> ordered screws. They have a web site at <> and a
>
> printed catalog for their existing standard products that they will mail
> to
> you if requested.
>
> 2) I too feel that Phillips drive screws are inferior to hex socket,
> Torx,
> and Torx Plus Drive.
>
> 3) The 8-32x5/8 100 degree flat head, T20 Torx drive 18-8 stainless
> steel
> screws are my recommendation to John based on my perception of the most
> commonly needed screw. I could be wrong. If you have more / better
> choices
> please let John know the specifics, but realize that he can not afford
> to
> stock too many sizes of specially ordered screws.
>
> 4) I feel that these screws are acceptable for structural use in our
> amateur
> built experimental aircraft. I base this opinion on the fact that the
> similar
> Phillips drive structural MS24694C screws are also made of 85 ksi
> tensile
> strength stainless steel.
>
> 5) I have searched for a source of such screws for several years without
>
> success until now and I think that John's offer is a significant break
> through. I will be letting John know that I will order 300 if he decides
> to
> stock them based on the responses that he gets.
>
> 6) Again, please contact John very soon by email at
> if you have a sincere interest. I apologize
> for
> the use of this group to put out this off topic message, but I feel that
> it
> could be of real service to many fellow builders.
>
> 7) I have one other request, if you participate in some other internet
> builder's group and you think that any of their members would benefit
> from
> this information would you please forward a copy of this posting to that
>
> group? Many thanks.
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Phillips drive screws |
I note that my hardware store cross-head bits don't fit the #8 screws that
we use on our RV aircraft very well. Does anyone know what bit I should look
for that would be a perfect fit?
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
(good stuff clipped)
Once more, without wanting to fan flames, Phillips and crosshead type screws
have generally got a bad rep through misunderstanding and misuse.
Use the right tool for the job.
Graham Jones
Kilmore Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Hot Oil - Cowlflaps anyone ? Was oil temp |
A experiment with thermocouples on the rear of the #3 cylinder baffling
metal (aluminum) and the oil cooler itself......the temp of the metal
baffle material was very hot and heat soaking my oil cooler by the way I
mounted it. I remounted the cooler with a gasket of the red silicon
baffle material so there was no metal-to-metal contact between the
cooler and baffle plate. I got a major temp drop when I isolated the
cooler from the baffle....something along the lines of 125-150 degrees.
My guess is that I was running hot oil through a HOT cooler body and the
air flow wasn't sufficient to drop my overall oil temp. Something to
think about...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phillips drive screws |
--- "Stephen J. Soule" wrote:
>
> I note that my hardware store cross-head bits don't fit the #8 screws
> that
> we use on our RV aircraft very well. Does anyone know what bit I
> should look
> for that would be a perfect fit?
Size matters.
Get a #2 head.
- Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DavidAWilks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 06/20/02 |
Here are some ideas and suggestions for all you pilots and builders with overheating
and temperature problems.
For quite some time I have been using ceramic coatings on exhaust and intake systems
to control heat. This heat is the biggest criminal while on the ground
and controlled cooling is most difficult due to a lack of airflow across the engine.
For this I would suggest cutting two flush panel doors and forward hinging them
on the top area of your cowling. You can even find a small steel spring similar
to an ashtray door spring to give the openings a little help. During ground
operations the doors will fall and allow heat to escape out of the top of the
cowling instead of trying to escape under the bottom, which we know does not
work at slow speeds. During flight, the high pressure airflow into the inlet
of the cowling easily closes the doors allowing operation through the cylinders
as normal.
Another simple item to add is two louvered vents on the lower extremes of the cowl.
Many Buick Grand National aftermarket shops offer a simple high strength
ABS vent as offered by Buick on the GNX. These vents can be painted to match
your airplane, the necessary hole cut out, and secured using high strength silicon
or epoxy without a mess or the need to repaint your entire cowl.
Again, I will suggest ceramic coatings. Ceramics for exhaust systems are now in
the areas of 2600 degrees in thermal barrier strength. I have coated turbos
and headers that you could touch with the hand while an engine was idling. Furthermore
they increase the power output of your engine due to their added thermal
efficiency by moving hotter exhaust gases faster. Also a gain is that you
reduce the intake charge temp, netting a denser and cooler intake mixture.
This is a benefit everywhere. I do not suggest wrapping of headers or intake
pipes. This is very dangerous as it creates thermal hotspots that are uneven
and will ruin the strength of the steel you are using. In most cases it causes
accelerated fatigue, cracking and eventual failures.
For more information on this, please let me know if I can help.
Regards,
David Wilks
http://www.davidawilks.com/fly-in
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Phillips drive screws |
You might have gotten "pozi-drive" screws. Look the same but obviously are
different. There is another X shaped slot which the interior corners a
square not rounded like the Phillips. We used to use them in model airplane
engines but I forget the proper trade name.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RV-List: Phillips drive screws
I note that my hardware store cross-head bits don't fit the #8 screws that
we use on our RV aircraft very well. Does anyone know what bit I should look
for that would be a perfect fit?
Steve Soule
-----Original Message-----
(good stuff clipped)
Once more, without wanting to fan flames, Phillips and crosshead type screws
have generally got a bad rep through misunderstanding and misuse.
Use the right tool for the job.
Graham Jones
Kilmore Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in |
Listers in Colorado,
Thinking about flying up to the Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in but have
been hearing about the fires and the smoke. How is it up in Longmont?
I've seen TV pictures of people in Denver walking around holding hanks
to their mouths. I know it depends on which way the wind is blowing,
but what's it like up there?
Stu McCurdy
RV-8, N78TX (Flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
dear listers
vandenburg is having a flyin tomorrow, food, drinks, airplanes, all is
welcome. it last all day.
hope to see you there
scott]
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
Hi Randy,
Great fly-in as usual. The weather was typical of course. We tried to
fly over to Tillamook for dinner at the museum on Friday but got skunked by
the clouds. We diverted to McMinnville, the Spruce Goose and the Brewpub in
town instead. That worked out just fine.
John and I are trying to plan the RVator's BBQ at Arlington. Do you
know how many people you fed this year? You guys did a great job of feeding
everyone. I enjoyed the salads a lot, courtesy of Costco? We are
scratching to get the BBQ going. John (RedRV(at)aol.com) just had the first
flight in his 8 yesterday so he has been consumed with all the details of
getting that done. Flew great! Hope to pull this BBQ off, we are down to
just a couple of folks to help.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in |
Stuart,
All the fires are well south of Longmont. The Longmont area is not affected
at all.
Colorado is a big state, and while the fires are certainly serious, remember
that 99+% of the state is not burning, and regardless of what the media and
our shiny faced governor says, we are not having nuclear winter.
Andy
Winter Park, CO
> Thinking about flying up to the Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in but have
> been hearing about the fires and the smoke. How is it up in Longmont?
> I've seen TV pictures of people in Denver walking around holding hanks
> to their mouths. I know it depends on which way the wind is blowing, but
> what's it like up there?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <fasching(at)amigo.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in |
I can't speak to the smoke in Longmont, but I wanted to caution you to look
at the TFR's in the area south of Denver...the EAA web site under Pilot
Services lists them and they are a bit complicated but essentially seem to
cover the so-called Hayman fire....and the other major fires in the state
at Glenwood Springs, Durango, and South Fork.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in |
Hey Stu...
I did some flying this morning and it's a bit hazy at 10K', but I am about
80 SM SE of Longmont... Best advise is to call Denver FSS...
1-800-WX-BRIEF
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in
Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2002 10:13:52 -0500
Listers in Colorado,
Thinking about flying up to the Rocky Mountain Regional Fly-in but have
been hearing about the fires and the smoke. How is it up in Longmont?
I've seen TV pictures of people in Denver walking around holding hanks
to their mouths. I know it depends on which way the wind is blowing,
but what's it like up there?
Stu McCurdy
RV-8, N78TX (Flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Non Phillips drive screws |
>
>One needs to realise that there are several types of "cross head" screws
>
>If you use the wrong type of driver with a screw you will prove just how bad
>and hard they are to use..
Right on! I wonder too if some of the "Phillips" screwdrivers available
adhere closely to the specifications for any of the screw forms. I was
using attaching wheel pants yesterday with stainless screws from ACS and
found that I have one screwdriver bit which really fits. I could hold the
screwdriver level and the screw would stick to the point as if it were all
magnetic. Most screwdrivers are a very sloppy fit and readily chew up the
stainless.
The stainless screws have a different form than the AN screws that came
with the kit! The AN's have a very shallow 'pit' and I suspect most
screwdrivers hit bottom before filling out the sides of the form.
Anyone know for sure what form (type) the AN screws are ?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | RV4/6 Comparison |
My 6 with 0360 fixed sensenich 85" pitch alongside a friends 4 with 0320
hartzell cs his will blow right by me going up, but full out level I
actually creep by him by maybe 1-2 kts.
I would guess weight effects climb and MPG more than full out speed between
a fat and skinny airplane. Also the fixed pitch may allow me to produce a
few more HP as it goes a hundred over redline at full blast level, whereas
his stays below redline. (I have spent no more than a few minutes total time
at this speed as it also has me just creeping past VNE and uses gobbs of
fuel.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd Seal" <supersonic(at)mail.sisna.com> |
| Subject: | RE: RV8-List: Cowlflaps anyone? |
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Kuehn, George" <George.Kuehn(at)ost.dot.gov>
Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2002 08:52:38 -0400
>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Kuehn, George"
>
>Check out Greg Hale's RV-8 site. http://www.nwacaptain.com/
>I think Van also experimented with cowl flaps on the 8.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TwoAviators [mailto:TwoAviators(at)lexcominc.net]
>To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV8-List: Cowlflaps anyone?
>
>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: TwoAviators
>
>Has anyone put cowl flaps on their RV? I feel the design is so
clean under
>the airplane that there is little vacuum created to assist the
cooling of
>the high pressure above the engine.
>
>Am I nuts? Seems cowl flaps though something else to deal with,
might be a
>simple way to get more 'low pressure' in the lower section of the
cowling,
>might especially help in climb where speeds are slower.
>
>Well what do ya think?
>
>
>_-
==================================================================
===
of
>_-
==================================================================
===
messages.
members.
>_-
==================================================================
===
list
>_-
==================================================================
===
>
>Check with Vans. They had an RV with cowl flaps at Oshkosh last
year. I think that it was the one that had the fancy engine
control system installed.
Boyd Seal
Flying RV6; second offender buildin RV8>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | Annual condition inspection log book entry |
CFR14 part 43 gives you the verbage to use for any inspection entry. You are
required to use a checklist but you are not required to cite which one you
use, for certified aircraft. There is no such limitation posed upon EXPs but
the civil rulings still seem to apply somewhat. So stick with what the Feds
tell you to write.
Date TTIS
I certify this aircraft has been inspected in accordance with an (insert
inspection type) and has been found to be in an airworthy condition.
Name
Type of cert
Cert number
Any service work you do other than the inspection put in a different entry,
such as cleaning the plugs, lubing the pedals yadi yadi.
If you are not a certified repairman, or an A&P you can't do the annual
condition inspections.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: F610 &F611 Angle ? |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Study the drawing real close. the angles just sit on the longerons. The
ends will taper to fit the sweep of the fuselage.
Getting the bolt holes to come out right is the hardest part. Sec D-D
shows the 610 gets the one inch below the longeron, then a one inch
spacer that butts between the longerons , then 2 small spacers that sit
on top of the longeron, then the horz stabilizer.
The 611 gets a 3/4 angle under & the 612 gets one 3/4 over the longerons.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
>
> Hello on plan #34 it's not very clear on how to make the angles
> that attach
> to the longerons and bulkheads (F610 &F611) it looks like they have
> a slot in
> the ends similar to ones i have put in other angles seem like common
> practice
> to keep the angle from cracking but it's not real clear. thanks
>
> Bill Higgins
> RV 6
> Pembroke
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun and set for sale. |
In a message dated 6/21/2002 6:50:30 AM Central Daylight Time,
gratech(at)bigpond.com writes:
>
> Chris, et al.
>
> With out wanting to start an "R-word" war or upset your sales plan may I
> respectfully suggest to all those wannabees thinking 'bout this deal that
> the only place on any RV (or probably F1 rocket) that you need a 4X gun is
> to do the main Wing Spars and perhaps one or two other places wher LARGE
> rivets are used......
>
> All other riveting is better done with a 2X and/or maybe a turned down (air
> pressure) 3X gun......
>
> Unless of course you use a pressure with the 4X such that you can set a
> 3/32
> rivet with one or two blows of the hammer and control it to only deliver
> them [AKA Mission Impossible!].
>
> Graham Jones
> Kilmore Australia
> RV6A Wings.
> 1 - 4X gun
> 1 - 2X gun
> 1 pneumatic squeezer
> 1 hand squeezer
> Too many memories of seeing 3/32 rivets that had been set with a 4x gun at
> 30psi+ (not mine).......Ouch!
> DNA
>
well my rivit gun worked fine for any and all rivits, its just a matter of
turning down the air pressure on the gun. I asked mark fredricks what gun to
get and he said the 4x, thats what he uses when he builds aircraft, so hey
if he can build bruce bohannons flying tiger aircraft i think i will go with
his advice. But you are right you have to watch the airpressure so u dont
make a mess of things.
chris
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Airpark home available |
Russ,
I'm interested and would be pleased to be able to find out more about this
property.
Many thanks and best wishes,
Jack Abell
Russ Nichols wrote:
>
> Just in case anyone is looking or knows someone that is...
>
> One of our neighbors is attempting to sell his home. It's on Alta Mesa
> Airpark in Wilton, CA. (It's not on the sectionals, yet.) That's about 20
> miles southeast of Sacramento.
>
> I don't know the specifics on the home, but I can tell you it's very nice.
> The property is 5 acres and it is set up for horses. There isn't a hanger,
> but there is room for one. The runway is 2200' and oiled. We plan to pave
> when we can afford it. We also have a grass runway that is about 1600'.
>
> If anyone is interested, drop me a note and I'll get you the contact info.
>
> You could be the 2nd RV. There are several Stinsons, a Baron, a few
> Bonanzas, and several other various flying contraptions.
>
> thanks,
>
> Russ
> russnichols(at)msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4/6 Comparison |
>
>
>I would guess weight effects climb and MPG more than full out speed between
Greater weight means greater induced drag, doesn't it?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Seat rib and f 604 Rivets |
Hi Bill;
The F604 to seat rib connections are wider than the F605 end and the plans
call for 1" spacing on the 426-3 rivets, so lots of 426-3 rivets do the same
thing as the few 470-4 rivets at the aft end.
If you have a few #30 holes already drilled, I would say press on with 470
or 426-4 rivets in those locations and keep to 426-3 rivets in the other
places. Note carefully the design of the wing spar and when the spar bars
will have to slide into place, those locations will have to be flush rivets
on the front face of the F604, the others could be 470 rivets in you like.
Note the screws mounting the left side F619 ribs go into blind nut on the
front of the F604 without a problem.
Jim Oke
RV-6A
Wpg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: <BillRVSIX(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Seat rib and f 604 Rivets
>
> Hello I started drilling the F 604 bulkhead for the seat ribs and then I
> noticed the rivet size on the drawing. I drilled # 31 holes on three ribs
not
> the #41holes for the 426-3 like the drawing shows. Now my ? is do I keep
> drilling the #31 holes and use 470-4 rivets except were the spare hits and
> use 426-4 rivets. Or just finish it like the drawing shows. I like the
idea
> of the 470-4 rivets and not counter sinking the 604 except were needed
that
> way I keep all the rivets the same it also seems funny that most of all
the
> other seat ribs have the 470-4 rivets but not on were it attaches to the
f
> 604 bulkhead. Well just looking for your opinion thanks
>
> Bill Higgins
> RV-6
> Pembroke Ma
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV4/6 Comparison |
Me thinks you're seeing a dramatic illustration of the effects of the
constant speed prop during climb. With the pitch change during climb it will
be much more efficient (than your cruise FP) and able to deliver more excess
HP/thrust which translates to rate of climb. In cruise, your FP and the CS
have almost equal efficiency so your bigger engine wins out.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> My 6 with 0360 fixed sensenich 85" pitch alongside a friends
> 4 with 0320
> hartzell cs his will blow right by me going up, but full out level I
> actually creep by him by maybe 1-2 kts.
>
> I would guess weight effects climb and MPG more than full out
> speed between
> a fat and skinny airplane. Also the fixed pitch may allow me
> to produce a
> few more HP as it goes a hundred over redline at full blast
> level, whereas
> his stays below redline. (I have spent no more than a few
> minutes total time
> at this speed as it also has me just creeping past VNE and
> uses gobbs of
> fuel.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
-since I am on a roll here with shaking people up(what, structural
adhesives?), how 'bout this question? I find that with the prepunched holes
when you enlargen them by whatever, a thousandths, a drill size, that there
really isn't much of a burr to speak of. When a hole is drilled from
scratch, yes, there is a definite burr to the back side from where the tip
breaks through the backside of the skin. Recognizing that deburring has
been an industry practice for new, unprepunched holes and that prepunched
skins are something quite new, I wondered if it was all that necessary to
deburr enlargened prepunched holes? When a skin is dimpled it is streched
into a new shape. I find that the new hole is a bit larger with seems to
mean that there must be some cracking around the perimeter. This doesn't
seem to have been a problem for anyone, cracking from dimpled holes. I'd
like to know how much deburring is done on the quickbuilds. I know I saw
Mark F. deburr a skin with a metal ruler once with one stroke down the rivet
line. Chris tells me that some builders are just driving the dimple die
through the undrilled, prepunch hole and skipping the hole matching process
all together. I tried match drilling and not on the elevator stiffeners and
could tell no difference in the fit. So what opinions do you guys have
about the sacred cow of deburring for prepunched skins? Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing experiment.-little long. |
Dana - I picked up my RV-8 wing kit June 3rd. I drilled skins to the ribs
last night. I added outboard leading edge fuel tanks so that slowed me down
a bit. I am thinking about glueing the skins but was told it would add
time and weight :-) You can;t believe the difference from the old way of
building where you had to actually use a tape measure. This new "digital"
build is great, "let's see, this hole lines up with this hole..." I love
knowing I'm not messing up $5500 worth of aluminum. Thanks for assuring
things are straight. Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
| Subject: | Wing experiment.-little long. |
This 'old-timer' remains unconvinced; I would not attempt to build a
plane without a fixture. At the time I had to suspend my project, the
pre-punched assemblies were still relatively new; I opted for the 'real'
kit (and took the kidding from the earlier builders who's kits were even
less prefab - 'why, Van sent me an 8x11 drawing, some bauxite, iron, and
a rubber tree'). What convinced me was what happened when I
build my vertical fin. I was in a hurry to get it done and the jig
(sorry, 'fixture') out of my sliding door as Spring was coming. So I
drilled and clecoed the entire assembly and removed it; it was rock
solid. Then I dimpled it and reassembled it. To my horror, it was now
possible to easily twist it slightly but visibly out of alignment. What
happened? Dimpling enlarged the drilled holes slightly and the clecoes
could shift - individually not enough to notice but enough over the
course of the part to be measurable. Back into the fixture it went
until it was riveted; which locked the parts together in alignment.
It's true that the pre-punch kits save a lot of measuring, especially in
rivet spacing, but it's not wise to ignore the fact that some assembly
processes can throw off your careful alignment; a fixture's main purpose
in life is to maintain alignment throughout assembly.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A wings and tail moving to AZ, soon.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 3 rotor
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing experiment.-little long.
Dana - I picked up my RV-8 wing kit June 3rd. I drilled skins to the
ribs
last night. I added outboard leading edge fuel tanks so that slowed me
down
a bit. I am thinking about glueing the skins but was told it would add
time and weight :-) You can;t believe the difference from the old way
of
building where you had to actually use a tape measure. This new
"digital"
build is great, "let's see, this hole lines up with this hole..." I
love
knowing I'm not messing up $5500 worth of aluminum. Thanks for assuring
things are straight. Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
Hi Kevin,
You are right, if stretched too far Aluminum will crack. That is why the
pre-punched holes need to be re-drilled to spec.
Aluminum will stretch some, but only some. Done correctly the dimpling
process stretches and reforms the hole at one and the same time. The hole
sizes set out in the kit instructions are not arbitrarily arrived at. They
do take into account the processes they will go through and the consistency
of the materials being used.
The de-burring is intended to remove any swarf left over from the drilling
process. de-burring is also intended to remove only the very smallest
amount of the sharp edge that results due to being drilled to size.
I personally don't mind how this gets done by any others. It is however
important that all pre-punched holes get drilled to the proper size and are
de-burred in preparation for the dimpling process. The traditional method of
de-burring works and precludes various possible failures of some other
methods that have been used.
It might help to keep in mind that this road we travel has been gone over
endlessly since the early thirties when the concept was first put into
practice. Since then many refinements in the process and the materials have
been incorporated.
The refinements made available to us by Van's have been in the area of CAD.
machine punching etc. have not relieved us of the responsibility to attempt
to follow the materials assembly process laid out that has to date been all
but perfected.
Our lives and the lives of others will depend not only on our flying skills,
they also could depend on our attitude as to how we approach the building of
our aircraft.
I suspect that most all the builders that have taken on the task of building
a Vans aircraft have visited their own impatience and taken a look at short
cutting the various repetitive and tedious tasks that are part of the
territory.
I suspect that you will follow in the footsteps of the many that dealt with
these issues and grew to look back on their almost finished aircraft with
both pride and regret that the building phase is almost a thing of the past.
Some hints:
Avoid the temptation to bypass drilling the pre-punched holes
Avoid deburring too much
Always use a sharp drill. they do get dull drilling aluminum.
Throw out the dulled #30, #40, #41 drills they don't cost much and never
sharpen well due the small sizes. I use them for drilling other materials in
the drill press when making small jigs and tools
Pet "the sacred cow" often and with love.{:-)!
Keep on building!
Lots of luck,
Jim in Kelowna
how 'bout this question? I find that with the prepunched holes
> when you enlargen them by whatever, a thousandths, a drill size, that
there
> really isn't much of a burr to speak of. When a hole is drilled from
> scratch, yes, there is a definite burr to the back side from where the tip
> breaks through the backside of the skin. Recognizing that deburring has
> been an industry practice for new, unprepunched holes and that prepunched
> skins are something quite new, I wondered if it was all that necessary to
> deburr enlargened prepunched holes? When a skin is dimpled it is
streched
> into a new shape. I find that the new hole is a bit larger with seems to
> mean that there must be some cracking around the perimeter. This doesn't
> seem to have been a problem for anyone, cracking from dimpled holes. I'd
> like to know how much deburring is done on the quickbuilds. I know I saw
> Mark F. deburr a skin with a metal ruler once with one stroke down the
rivet
> line. Chris tells me that some builders are just driving the dimple die
> through the undrilled, prepunch hole and skipping the hole matching
process
> all together. I tried match drilling and not on the elevator stiffeners
and
> could tell no difference in the fit. So what opinions do you guys have
> about the sacred cow of deburring for prepunched skins? Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
Hello Listers,
This is quite long and is offered with the hope that it will give some
insight into the complicated issue of engine over heating in general. If it
seems to be in layman's English it's because that's what the author is, a
layman.
A number of years ago I was involved in an automotive business that had a
chassis dynamometer. During this time we performed dyne testing and tuning
for a wide range of customers. We had contracts with the local area hydro
company etc..
we also did a lot of custom tuning for all comers such as: Alternate fuel
system installers (Propane, Natural gas and Alcohol), mileage experimenters,
street racers, stock car racers, custom engine builders, etc..
The vast majority of overheating trouble shooting cases that came to us were
solved by adjusting more than one system. When the customer's emphasis was
on power the problem was very often mainly due to too much initial timing
complicated by an incorrect timing curve. Often incorrect fuel mixture
further complicated this situation, With the emphasis on mileage the lean
mixture scenario came to the forefront and most often timing would be
secondarily involved. Additionally in both of these cases spark plug
gapping, plug heat ranges, and upgrades to ignition systems came into play
for fine or finish tuning. As far as fuel systems were concerned we seldom
had to advise going to higher capacity equipment (cubic feet per minute flow
rate), the opposite was some times the case. It seems that the more is
better group still have a strong following to this day.
"Not me!", I just installed a mild cam and re-tuned my Mazda pickup and my
6a has an OF-360 ANA with electronic ignition (one side) and a constant
speed prop. {;-)!
In most cases, in an effort to fix their problems the customers had already
replaced or repaired such things as water pumps, radiators. Some had gone to
great lengths to clean out cooling systems etc to no avail. They were often
surprised to find that incorrect timing and fueling etc. could wreak such
havoc.
We tuned a number of VWs, Porsches and a couple of Corsairs with basically
the same outcomes. However many of these units tended to need additional
attention regarding efficient air flow for cooling. with the VWs
re-installing some of the stock sheet metal (removed "to save weight") was
all that was required. We often cured the fueling and timing ailments first
in such cases.
I realize that the aircraft industry has for many years accepted that 25
degrees of advance is all that is needed for a running engine?!!!. Further I
understand that putting the mixture control in the hands of the operator has
also been considered normal.
I was relieved to find out that systems such as Faced, Electronic fuel
injection and aftermarket electronic ignition system have been developed and
are finding good recognition in both the experimental and certified aircraft
industries.
This rather long posting is intended to point out the importance of
attention to details regarding basic engine tuning. such as being very sure
that the timing is exactly right and jetting is correct before going
elsewhere in search of cooling problems.
As time has passed there have been many A.D.s and advisories re-carburetion.
by going to the manufacturers site and researching we can find the correct
part numbers and settings to check against what we have on hand. Doing this
even if it means replacing a carb or ignition component will assure that
those of us with basic stock equipment will be starting at the right point
in problem solving.
There are good reasons to keep everything as designed and as provided by the
manufacturer. There are also good reasons to research and utilize upgraded
equipment.
As often as not the choice to upgrade is held in check or driven by the
dollar cost of doing so.
Be that as it may, attempting to re-jet carburetion or adjust timing
(outside of specs) to fix heating problems will seldom be the answer in the
long run. Air cooled engines are at best a handful compared to water cooled
systems. Once basic tuning has been checked out and found to be correct it
will be all but a certainty that adjustments to cooling air flow with some
localized tweaking will be the solution.
To coin a phrase; Start by re-tuning and end with re-tinning.
OK!!!, I'm sorry I said that. {:-/ !
If any of the above is in need of correction or added comments, have at it,
I need to learn.
Jim in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Meketa" <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phillips drive screws |
Hello Yall
I have one bit style and several screw drivers that work great
for both cad. and stainless phillips screws. I have many
screwdrivers/bits: Snapon, Craftsman, Matco, Cornwell, etc,
etc. These are by far the best I have come across.
The bits are #1 APEX phillips for #4 screws and #2 APEX
phillips for #6 and #8 phillips screws. They are found at a local
aviation supply store and Southwest Airlines uses them in
their shop. Also an article in July 2002 Fine Homebuilding mentioned
APEX as the bit of choice for their cordless impact driver survey.
There are likely several different styles manufactured by APEX, both
the #1 and #2 I use have a 446 number on them. Spruce has sets in
their catalog and may have individual bits. The APEX web site is
www.cooperindustries.com and the number is 937-222-7871.
Maybe someone on the list has a good source for builders.
The screw drivers that work well all happen to be made in Germany.
I have used them heavily and they show no signs of wear or slipping.
The #2 phillips is made by Wiha and was purchased at an electronics
store. Wiha screw drivers can be purchased at www.wihatools.com.
Mine is not in the catalog but looks exactly like 51120 in the phillips
tip style / dynamic handle section.The #0 and #1 phillips are made by
Witte and are sold by Matco tools. Matco tools are sold on the tool
truck at the local mechanic shop.
Get yourselves some good screwdrivers and you will have very few
stripped screw problems. I am also interested in the torx screws and
will add my name to the list to get both #6's and #8's. Not that I feel
a need for them, but to have something different.
George Meketa
RV8, 89hours (paint shop is almost done)
> I note that my hardware store cross-head bits don't fit the #8 screws that
> we use on our RV aircraft very well. Does anyone know what bit I should
look
> for that would be a perfect fit?
>
> Steve Soule
>
> -----Original Message-----
> (good stuff clipped)
> Once more, without wanting to fan flames, Phillips and crosshead type
screws
> have generally got a bad rep through misunderstanding and misuse.
> Use the right tool for the job.
>
> Graham Jones
> Kilmore Australia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Graham Jones" <gratech(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivet gun and set for sale. |
Chris,
Of course you CAN drive 3/32 rivets with a 4X gun, it just takes much more
control to do it right than most beginners have when they start. It is much
easier to consistently drive them with the smaller 2X gun, especially when
you are starting out.
When you have as much experience as Mark has in building you could probably
draw the Mona Lisa on the Machine head of a 3/32 with a 4X gun. I've used
both with a similarly qualified person assisting me and I know which one was
easier to control and get consistent results.
But, as with all things, your mileage may vary.
Graham Jones
>
> well my rivit gun worked fine for any and all rivits, its just a matter
of
> turning down the air pressure on the gun. I asked mark fredricks what gun
to
> get and he said the 4x, thats what he uses when he builds aircraft, so
hey
> if he can build bruce bohannons flying tiger aircraft i think i will go
with
> his advice. But you are right you have to watch the airpressure so u dont
> make a mess of things.
>
> chris
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Arthur and Christine" <act1(at)reap.org.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Phillips Screw Alternative |
REAP-MailScanner: Found to be clean
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: RV-List: Phillips Screw Alternative
>
> Howdy RV-list-
>
> See message copied below- I haven't seen this cross over to the RV-list
> from the Aeroelectric list so I'm posting here to see if we can generate
> enough interest to make this happen- I count about 150 8-32's for the
> tanks alone- at $14.50/100 it adds up to maybe $25 with s&h. Sounds like
> a deal to me- I'll express interest to Micro Fasteners for #6x 1/2" for
> inspection covers & fiberglass stuff as well. Thanks to OC for running
> with this...
>
>
> John Fleisher of Micro Fasteners has offered to procure and stock some
> T20,
> Torx drive, 8-32x5/8 inch, 100 degree countersink, flat head screws in
> 18-8
> stainless steel. These will be special ordered, but he will be able to
Caution, from experience I know stainless steel screws cause corrosion in
alclad.
Cheers,
Arthur Whitehead
RV-8 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Wing experiment.-little long. |
>From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
>
>This 'old-timer' remains unconvinced; I would not attempt to build a
>plane without a fixture.
Patrick,
I knew someone would go this route so I did another little experiment last
night to cover my bases:-). I made up a little contraption to hang my bench
completed horizontal stab from the ceiling using the elevator brackets. I
once again repositioned my trusty "plum" at four points of the HS; both
outboard edges straight down the center line and the inboard side of the
skins using the aft spar flange to position the tip of the "plum" on a point
on the front spar. Guess what, after following the instructions and
building the HS on the bench (including many flips and flops and adding the
aft spar last)............it too, is dead nu$s straight. I'm not Billy
Graham trying to convert anyone, I'm more of Jack Webb, "just stating the
facts, mam":-). Trust me, seeing is believing.
I know it's hard to believe, but in the new plans there is no mention of
threaded rod to position the leading edge ribs (added the left outer leading
edge last night), clamps are mentioned only to hold the wing on the "stand",
no nothing. Trust me, I am not doing anything the plans don't say. Just
following them step by step and I'm trusting their computer a whole lot more
than I would trust my wooden jig.
Not trying to convince anyone, other than myself............and I have seen
the light:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Oil drain valve? |
Can anyone recommend an oil drain valve for my IO-360-A1B6? I found two
in the Spruce catalog, though they have a proscription against using
them in Arrows, which also have the IO-360 engine.
I'm coming up on my first oil change and would like to install one of
these valves to make future changes easier. Any comments appreciated...
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 N118KB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil drain valve? |
The reason for the Arrow warning is the retracting front wheel comes up and
opens the valve. Don't think your RV has that problem. If it does you have
a bunch of other difficulties.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Balch" <kbalch1(at)attbi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Oil drain valve?
Can anyone recommend an oil drain valve for my IO-360-A1B6? I found two
in the Spruce catalog, though they have a proscription against using
them in Arrows, which also have the IO-360 engine.
I'm coming up on my first oil change and would like to install one of
these valves to make future changes easier. Any comments appreciated...
--
Regards,
Ken Balch
Ashland, MA
RV-8 N118KB
Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | ELT antenna location |
I have the ACK ELT and am wondering where the antenna is being located
since they recommend outside and vertical. I believe some are locating
it inside but I am thinking if it is surrounded by aluminum that is
effectively shielding the desired radiating rf pattern. If it is being
mounted nearest the canopy, at what location is the antenna positioned?
BTW I would prefer to have it inside.
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna location |
Dave Ford wrote:
>
>
> I have the ACK ELT and am wondering where the antenna is being located
> since they recommend outside and vertical. I believe some are locating
> it inside but I am thinking if it is surrounded by aluminum that is
> effectively shielding the desired radiating rf pattern. If it is being
> mounted nearest the canopy, at what location is the antenna positioned?
> BTW I would prefer to have it inside.
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
Archives, archives, archives...... :-)
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
Sam Buchanan
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com> |
As to the question if deburring is needed. Take piece of scrap aluminum
and dimple it without deburring, then examine the hole using a good size
magnifying glass and you will note small cracks radiating out from the
hole. It may not be as pronounced in thinner stock. Then prepare
another using proper deburring techniques and you will not see this. It
will take a good reading glass to see this.
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD
finish kit wiring
Northfield, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Non Phillips drive screws |
BAKEROCB(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: BAKEROCB(at)aol.com
>
> 6/20/2002
>
> Hello Fellow Amateur Experimental Aircraft Builders,
>
> Some background: Recently a fellow builder in a posting to a web based group
> that I belong to expressed his complete disgust with Phillips drive screws. I
> responded that there were superior alternatives such as hex socket, Torx, and
> Torx Plus drive screws that were being used in modern aerospace vehicles, but
> that it was very difficult to find and expensive to buy such screws in small
> quantities for our use. There then ensued a series of postings back and forth
> saying "are too" / "are not". The result was a another search on my part for
> such a souce -- I have potentially located one.
>
snipped
> 6) Again, please contact John very soon by email at
> if you have a sincere interest. I apologize for
> the use of this group to put out this off topic message, but I feel that it
> could be of real service to many fellow builders.
>
> 7) I have one other request, if you participate in some other internet
> builder's group and you think that any of their members would benefit from
> this information would you please forward a copy of this posting to that
> group? Many thanks.
>
> 'OC' Baker, Builder of KIS TR-1 #116 4/14/97 - ?/?/?
>
Why not take this issue directly to the various kit
manufacturers? If you can convince KIS, Van's, etc to
switch, then the supply problem cures itself & the cost per
screw will likely drop even more.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil drain valve? |
>
>
>Can anyone recommend an oil drain valve for my IO-360-A1B6? I found two
>in the Spruce catalog, though they have a proscription against using
>them in Arrows, which also have the IO-360 engine.
>
>I'm coming up on my first oil change and would like to install one of
>these valves to make future changes easier. Any comments appreciated...
>
>--
>Regards,
>Ken Balch
>Ashland, MA
>RV-8 N118KB
>Flying
>
Ken,
I believe the only reason they are not to be used in the Arrow is because of
the retractable nose gear geometry. Don't want the gear to come up and open
up your oil sump! Noooo.
Use whatever valve you like in the RV. My engine has a brass turn-and-lock
type of valve similar to the tank sump drain valves. It's most groovy and
easy to open, but not TOO easy.
Welcome to the flying community!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
291 hrs.
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Dick DeCramer wrote:
>
>
> As to the question if deburring is needed. Take piece of scrap aluminum
> and dimple it without deburring, then examine the hole using a good size
> magnifying glass and you will note small cracks radiating out from the
> hole. It may not be as pronounced in thinner stock. Then prepare
> another using proper deburring techniques and you will not see this. It
> will take a good reading glass to see this.
So.......does this make any difference for an airframe that will
probably have a real-world lifespan of no more than twenty years?
(Before you object, think about how many people want to buy a twenty
year old homebuilt airplane....)
No flame intended, just curious.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Robertson" <res0rlvx(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Ceramic exhaust coatings |
>>Again, I will suggest ceramic coatings. Ceramics for exhaust systems are
now in the areas of 2600 degrees in thermal barrier strength. I have coated
turbos and headers that you could touch with the hand while an engine was
idling.
David, could you post the details on ceramic coating your exhaust pipes?
Which material, how the exhaust is prepared, do it yourself or send it away,
etc.? I am sure many people would be interesed in a how-to discussion.
Gordon Robertson
RV-8 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil drain valve? |
In a message dated 6/22/2002 5:52:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
kbalch1(at)attbi.com writes:
> Can anyone recommend an oil drain valve for my IO-360-A1B6? I found two
> in the Spruce catalog, though they have a proscription against using
> them in Arrows, which also have the IO-360 engine.
>
> I'm coming up on my first oil change and would like to install one of
> these valves to make future changes easier. Any comments appreciated.
As Cy indicated, the cautionary statement comes in the wake of an incident
some years back where someone equipped their Piper Arrow retractable gear a/c
with an oil drain valve and as the gear was retracted in flight, it tripped
the valve, dumping all oil overboard. This is a moot point for us.
You can pay $50 for an a/c drain valve (aluminum) from ACS or you can pay
less than $20 for a Fumoto Valve (brass automotive). Your choice.
If you know the thread size that you need for your engine sump, talk to
Fumoto. The Yeller Pages has contact info and the P/N for the O-360 that
I've used. The valve handle is very effectively spring loaded into a notch,
but I also drilled a small hole in the handle for safety wiring.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 525hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
gert wrote:
>
>
> Hey Sam
>
> for most people, it will be 20 years, but for some, odds just as with
> winning the lottery or getting hit by lightning, it will cause a fatigue
> crack which leads to airframe failure.
Catastrophic airframe failure from a few tiny cracks around some skin
rivets????!???
Wow, this flyin' business is riskier than I realized...... ;-)
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Berger <navspex(at)localnet.com> |
| Subject: | IFR GPS avialable |
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NAVIGATION SPECIALTIES: office: 716-363-0436, Cell 716-410-2508, or
email: navspex(at)localnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Open Canopy in Flight! |
Well, I just want to thank all the folks who have in the past posted what to
do in event of a canopy coming open in flight. I have a tilt-up and was
cursing at 3500 MSL at 180IAS when my canopy popped opened up approx 6-8" in
the rear with a resulting roar of air and sound. After realizing what it
was - my first thought was to get back to the airfield and land, then I
recalled the experience of others and decided to see if I could not get it
latched back down. With plenty of altitude and keeping in mind to continue
to fly the aircraft I proceeded.
I had immediately slowed the aircraft to around 100mph and grasping the
canopy handle was able to pull it down to within a inch or so, but could not
get it latched. I then decided to lock it down as far as I could with the
secondary handle latch. I slowed to 80mph and was able to get the lip of
the canopy handle under the roll bar. Then I relaxed a bit and slowed the
aircraft to 70 mph and was able to pulled it down and engage the latches and
locked it down. Continued with an otherwise uneventful flight.
As best I can tell I engaged the canopy latches but failed to lock the lever
handle in the fully closed position and engag the little latch, it came open
after about 8 minutes of flight.. I normally engaged the lip of the canopy
closing handle under the roll bar, but had failed to do so this time.
So thanks for sharing, it does help when you encounter a similar situation
to know what others have successfully done to remedy the situation.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: AeroElectric-List: Non Phillips drive screws |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: FW: AeroElectric-List: Non Phillips drive screws
>
> John Fleisher of Micro Fasteners has offered to procure and stock some
> T20,
> Torx drive, 8-32x5/8 inch, 100 degree countersink, flat head screws in
> 18-8
> stainless steel. These will be special ordered, but he will be able to
> provide them at an extremely attractive price. (Compare to MS24694C7
> saved on
> 3) The 8-32x5/8 100 degree flat head, T20 Torx drive 18-8 stainless
> steel
> screws are my recommendation to John based on my perception of the most
> commonly needed screw. I could be wrong> 4) I feel that these screws are
acceptable for structural use in our
> amateur
> built experimental aircraft. I base this opinion on the fact that the
> similar
> Phillips drive structural MS24694C screws are also made of 85 ksi
> tensile
> strength stainless steel.
Ed: I would be interested in fasteners as you describe except not in
stainless steel. Stainless is not considered to be structural and therefore
I would not, say, mount a fuel tank on an RV with them. If available in
aircraft grade cad plated steel, I would stock several hundred for my own
use. I frequently have to replace Phillips head screws on my -4 and would
look forward to a better system.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open Canopy in Flight! |
I had the same thing happen. This is where checklists are invaluble. Had I
used it on that flight, I would have remembered to latch the canopy cross
bar latch. Usually it wasn't an issue, since I usually close the canopy
using that handle, and just turn it when it is closed.
It appears is some low pressure at the rear of the canopy, that sucks it
open. From every tip up canopy that I heard had opened, they never open
more than about 6 inches or so. Getting her slow enough is about the only
thing one could do.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Open Canopy in Flight!
>
> Well, I just want to thank all the folks who have in the past posted what
to
> do in event of a canopy coming open in flight. I have a tilt-up and was
> cursing at 3500 MSL at 180IAS when my canopy popped opened up approx 6-8"
in
> the rear with a resulting roar of air and sound. After realizing what it
> was - my first thought was to get back to the airfield and land, then I
> recalled the experience of others and decided to see if I could not get it
> latched back down. With plenty of altitude and keeping in mind to
continue
> to fly the aircraft I proceeded.
>
> I had immediately slowed the aircraft to around 100mph and grasping the
> canopy handle was able to pull it down to within a inch or so, but could
not
> get it latched. I then decided to lock it down as far as I could with the
> secondary handle latch. I slowed to 80mph and was able to get the lip of
> the canopy handle under the roll bar. Then I relaxed a bit and slowed the
> aircraft to 70 mph and was able to pulled it down and engage the latches
and
> locked it down. Continued with an otherwise uneventful flight.
>
> As best I can tell I engaged the canopy latches but failed to lock the
lever
> handle in the fully closed position and engag the little latch, it came
open
> after about 8 minutes of flight.. I normally engaged the lip of the
canopy
> closing handle under the roll bar, but had failed to do so this time.
>
> So thanks for sharing, it does help when you encounter a similar situation
> to know what others have successfully done to remedy the situation.
>
>
> Ed Anderson
> Matthews, NC
> RV-6A N494BW
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
As I said, about everybody will never see any problem, my question is,
do you want to be the poor sod who falls from heaven ???
Or, do you want to stack the favors in your direction.
bet the crew of the ac-130 which lost it's wings in flight never even
considered that a -130 could loose both wings, build like a brick
sh*thouse they say, guess what, their numbers were up......
Or...who doesn't remember van's rv8 falling from the sky, never really
solved what happend, all we can do is look at the end result and guess,
yet it did happen.
Remember all the weak wing theories. Now does that mean I would not fly
a rv8?? hell no, I am building one as we speak. Can't wait to fly it !!
I did make sure though, I was extra carefull working on the wing, just
to be safe, I let my 8 year old hold the bucking bar to buck the
rivets........
As is most the case, planes forget to fly because of a series of events,
not one bad rivet, I damm well hope not ;-).........it doesn't hurt to
be carefull.
Now if you all will excuse me, I have more rivets to buck in *deburred*
holes......hehehe
Gert
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
> gert wrote:
>
>>
>>Hey Sam
>>
>>for most people, it will be 20 years, but for some, odds just as with
>>winning the lottery or getting hit by lightning, it will cause a fatigue
>>crack which leads to airframe failure.
>>
>
>
> Catastrophic airframe failure from a few tiny cracks around some skin
> rivets????!???
>
> Wow, this flyin' business is riskier than I realized...... ;-)
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open Canopy in Flight! |
>
>
> I had the same thing happen.
Me too. After jostling around for about 20 minutes waiting for an opening to
departing an airshow, I just forgot. At about 40-50 mph during the roll-out,
the canopy lifted about up about 6 inches. I pulled the throttle back about
half way to keep from taking off and reached for the upper handle. There was
definitely some resistance and i didn't want to be wrestling with the canopy
while trying to hold the plane straight on the runway at the verge of lift off
speed, so I pulled the throttle back the rest of the way. At about 20 mph, the
canopy sank back down, I was able to easily latch it, re-applied the throttle
and continued the takeoff. Thats what 10,000' runways are good for.
The whole thing happened in just a few seconds. I doubt the guy behind me even
knew there was any kind of problem at all.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
-still, no one really addressed the heart of my question. I have been
deburring my kit, please don't start a rumor against me for that. What I
was wondering was if the aerospace industry had studied the prepunched,
enlargened hole type construction we are now doing to the previous, drill
your own hole construction, and if the same rules still applied to the need
to deburr? Personally I can feel a significant difference, especially on
the backside where the drill bit exits. Try running your hand over the
backside of the wingskin and over the backside of the wing walk doubler skin
(which is not prepunched). There is no doubt that the doubler skin needs
deburring.
It was my impression that deburring was done to insure the pieces set
together perfectly and that the burr didn't create a void between them or
create a sharp edge against the rivet. Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing experiment.-little long. |
Dana - when I built my -6A I started with someone else's kit that had the
emp already built. I discovered the V-stab was warped 5/8ths of an inch off
center and in the opposite direction(to the passenger side) of any preset
offsets. My hangar mate dubbed it "Keiko" and suggested a killer whale
paint scheme. Several years ago I built a new one and found absolutely no
difference in any aspects other than looks. I believe the non-jig
construction is fine. Funny how some people will quote Van chapter and
verse if we want to change something but then when Van says don't bother
with a jig, well, then he doesn't know how it should be done. Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ceramic exhaust coatings |
Check our Jet-Hot Coatings in the Yeller Pages. Nice folks to do business
with.
-Don
RV8 NJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cmosier(at)comporium.net |
If you haven't purchased a canopy yet, you might consider Todd's
Canopies (BSILVER05(at)aol.com ) or call Todd at (954) 579-0874. I had
the misfortune of purchasing a kit that was already started and came
with the original -8 canopy prototype. After several days of cutting,
scraping, sanding, etc., it was obvious that the canopy would not fit.
I contacted Todd Silver (owner) and he immediately furnished me a new
canopy and even transported it to SnF....all at his cost.
The new one fits perfectly, is much thicker than Van's canopies and is
tinted. The material was not brittle and proved very easy to cut and
finish.
It is rare to find anyone in business that would provide the instant
response the way he did, as I really wasn't his customer.
Colby Mosier -8a
Charlotte, N.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Liming <gary(at)liming.org> |
| Subject: | Upholstery material |
On the tapes "From the Ground Up" they were using a material to cover the
cabin sides, something plastic based because it melted from a soldering
iron. Anyone know of a source or a name for that stuff? I have been to
some fabric stores, but they don't have anything like that. Or, I would be
glad to hear abotu any good material you may have used.
Thanks,
Gary Liming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
Hi all,
I'd also like to thank OC for taking the time and making the effort to
persue this issue. Like Mark Phillips, I plan to contact John and order
400 8-32 screws and probably 300 of the 6's.
We use a lot of Torx but like OC pointed out, most suppliers require a
minimum. Ours wanted a 10K piece order for them to stock these smaller
screws.
Again, Good Job OC...and thanks!
Jim Duckett, RV-7a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upholstery material |
You really want something that will melt when hot? If you have a fire,
that just makes one more hazard. When I fought forest fires, before they
issued Nomex, they required we wear cotton & prohibited anything with
polyester because when polyester burns it sticks to your skin, making burns
much worse. I heard about a guy involved in a gasoline fume explosion in
his garage and the only severe burns he got were where his socks melted
onto his skin--everything else was protected with cotton. I would look for
something that neither burns nor melts.
Richard Scott
Interstate Cadet
RV-9?
At 01:25 PM 6/22/02, you wrote:
>
>
>On the tapes "From the Ground Up" they were using a material to cover the
>cabin sides, something plastic based because it melted from a soldering
>iron. Anyone know of a source or a name for that stuff? I have been to
>some fabric stores, but they don't have anything like that. Or, I would be
>glad to hear abotu any good material you may have used.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gary Liming
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | C-map aviation EKP IIIC gps |
Has anyone had any experience with this color moving map gps ?
c-map aviation EKP IIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tipper Canopy in Flight! |
has anyone ever flown with the handle on the roll bar latched only, how
important is the side latching system on the tipper.
scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
> Dick DeCramer wrote:
> >
> >
> > As to the question if deburring is needed. Take piece of scrap aluminum
> > and dimple it without deburring, then examine the hole using a good size
> > magnifying glass and you will note small cracks radiating out from the
> > hole. It may not be as pronounced in thinner stock. Then prepare
> > another using proper deburring techniques and you will not see this. It
> > will take a good reading glass to see this.
>
> So.......does this make any difference for an airframe that will
> probably have a real-world lifespan of no more than twenty years?
> (Before you object, think about how many people want to buy a twenty
> year old homebuilt airplane....)
>
> No flame intended, just curious.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
>
Well Sam, my airplane is getting close to 14 years old and I still have
people calling me and offering me good money for it. My guess is it well
still look and fly the same in another 6 years. While it does have
a few spots of hangar rash it does not seem to be any worse for the wear
and still flies great. When I open it up at inspection time it still looks
the same insides as it did the day I built it. I don't plan to ask any
less money for it at 20 years than I would have taken at five or ten years.
both of Van's prototype RV-4s have well over twenty years on them
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upholstery material |
>
>
>On the tapes "From the Ground Up" they were using a material to cover the
>cabin sides, something plastic based because it melted from a soldering
>iron. Anyone know of a source or a name for that stuff? I have been to
>some fabric stores, but they don't have anything like that. Or, I would be
>glad to hear abotu any good material you may have used.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Gary Liming
Leather baby! Have no idea what kind of flammability it has. Probably
burns nicely, with a piquant, backyard BBQ kind of smell. I say that if
you're on fire all the way back to the sidewalls, you're just plain screwed
no matter what is used for upholstery fabric. Use what you like, and enjoy
it.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
293 hrs.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tipper Canopy in Flight! |
Scott, based on my experience today, the canopy handle can latch under the
roll bar and still leave the canopy open approx 1-1 1/2". There is
considerable upward force being exerted on the canopy by the airflow and I
briefly released the stick and pulled down with both hands and could not get
it down far enough to latch until I had slowed to around 70-80 mph. I
noticed that there appeared to be sufficient flexing of the tilt section of
the canopy where the handle attaches to leave the end of the side rails 1 -
1 1/2" above the stringer even after you have the canopy handle lip under
the roll bar.
Ed Anderson
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: tipper Canopy in Flight!
>
> has anyone ever flown with the handle on the roll bar latched only, how
> important is the side latching system on the tipper.
> scott
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C-map aviation EKP IIIC gps |
Do they have a website?
Has anyone had any experience with this color moving map gps ?
c-map aviation EKP IIIc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bernie Kerr" <kerrbernie(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open Canopy in Flight! |
Ed,
I think you are seriously trying to challenge Finn for the best story
telling title :>)
The one extra thing that might have helped close the canopy easier is to
apply flaps after you are slowed below flap speed. It has been reported by a
reliable source that he has intentionally tested this idea and that I should
do it for the experience. Have not tried it because I never think of it when
I'm flying.
Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tom sargent <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6/4 wing root fairing rubber |
Hi:
I am making my wing root fairings for my RV-6A and have a dumb question
about the rubber "weather strip" material that seals it against the
fuselage. I'm not sure which surface of the rubber stripping should
face up. It looks like it could go either way.
This is hard to describe with words, but the rubber strip has a
crossection which looks like a lower case "h", that is, it's a flat
strip on one side and has a flap on the other side. Do I put the rubber
on the fairing with the tall part of the h facing out, or the short part
facing out?
The manual says virtually nothing about the fairing. There's a quite a
bit in the archives, but apparently no one but me has been confused on
the orientation of the strip.
--
Tom Sargent. RV-6A
Better to ask a dumb questions than to make a dumb mistake.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
http://aviation.c-map.com/EKP3c.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> Well Sam, my airplane is getting close to 14 years old and I still have
> people calling me and offering me good money for it. My guess is it well
> still look and fly the same in another 6 years. While it does have
> a few spots of hangar rash it does not seem to be any worse for the wear
> and still flies great. When I open it up at inspection time it still looks
> the same insides as it did the day I built it. I don't plan to ask any
> less money for it at 20 years than I would have taken at five or ten years.
> both of Van's prototype RV-4s have well over twenty years on them
I certainly don't want to cast a negative light on anybody's
"experienced" RV!
And I am certainly no prophet when it comes to profit.......I kept my
growth funds six months too long....... :-(
However.....we need to keep in mind the possible resell climate twenty
years from now when instead of a couple dozen RV's being for sale, there
are many hundred. This multitude of mature RV's is going to be sporting
panels full of antique watch-like instruments, obscure little vacuum
driven gizmos that haven't worked in years, and navaids and radios that
have about as much relevance as an ADF or coffee grinder com do now. Not
to mention a creaky old engine that will need to be converted so it can
run on diesel.
Now......try to sell that once glorious RV to a shiney-faced 2022 model
year prospective builder who is rabidly devouring all the brochures and
marketing of the latest and greatest aircraft!
Or.......just look at how likely you were to buy a twenty year old
Thorpe T-18 or Quickie instead of building a new RV!
I stand by my statement that most of our planes will be out to pasture
by the time they are twenty years old.....and the whole purpose of this
nonsense is to make us consider whether or not we should obsess over
trying to build a plane that will last forever....
Sam Buchanan (RV-6......seventeen years to go!)
"The RV Journal" http://sambuchanan.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Open Canopy in Flight! |
Hi Bernie,
Well, once the rush from the canopy popping open had receded, it really
was not worrisome compared to my previous experience coming home from
Memphis {:>). It was certainly not anything that effected the handling of
the aircraft, so a landing would have been uneventful.
I have the uneasy feeling that I'm on a string of three and wondering
what number three will be.
Ed
Subject: Re: RV-List: Open Canopy in Flight!
>
> Ed,
>
> I think you are seriously trying to challenge Finn for the best story
> telling title :>)
>
> The one extra thing that might have helped close the canopy easier is to
> apply flaps after you are slowed below flap speed. It has been reported by
a
> reliable source that he has intentionally tested this idea and that I
should
> do it for the experience. Have not tried it because I never think of it
when
> I'm flying.
> Bernie Kerr, 6A,O-320,tipup,Sensenich metal,SE Fla
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net> |
Dop not archive.
Lets see, its got to be more than thirty years ago that "they" were saying
that the B-52 wouldn't last either. Are there any Ercoupes or Cessna 120's
still flying. KABONG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Debur
> I stand by my statement that most of our planes will be out to pasture
> by the time they are twenty years old.....and the whole purpose of this
> nonsense is to make us consider whether or not we should obsess over
> trying to build a plane that will last forever....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-6/4 wing root fairing rubber |
In a message dated 6/22/02 8:23:43 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes:
> This is hard to describe with words, but the rubber strip has a
> crossection which looks like a lower case "h", that is, it's a flat
> strip on one side and has a flap on the other side. Do I put the rubber
> on the fairing with the tall part of the h facing out, or the short part
> facing out?
>
>
The tall part is out, it gets bent back (up) and lays against the
fusilage.Use gorilla snot, 3M upholstry cement and let it cure overnight
before mounting your fairings.
Fred LaForge RV-4 180 cs EAA tech counselor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Help on selecting tools |
I might add that using my hand squeezer to set all them -4 rivets in my rollbar
(tipper) I gave myself a right dandy case of tendonitis (tennis elbow) doing all
those rivets- Took about 5 months to heal. It might be a good opportunity to at
least borrow one of these for this task...
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Jim Bower wrote:
> I have to say that my pneumatic squeezer is worth its weight in gold.
> If you really don't want to spend the bucks for the power squeezer, give
> Cleveland Tools a look. They have one that takes less "oomph" to operate.
> You will appreciate that with those 1/8" rivets.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henley" <henley(at)seii.net> |
| Subject: | Re: C-map aviation EKP IIIC gps |
Amit,
I have a EKP IIIc panel mounted in my RV7 and it works great.
John Henley
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: C-map aviation EKP IIIC gps
>
> Has anyone had any experience with this color moving map gps ?
>
> c-map aviation EKP IIIc
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henley" <henley(at)seii.net> |
| Subject: | First Flight N57LD |
Listners,
I am proud to announce that exactly 5 weeks after selling my RV6, I have
flew my new RV 7 for the first time on June 14th. With a 200 HP IO 360
and Hartzell C/S prop the takeoff and climb performance is exceptional.
This was not a quick build kit and I have approx 1400 hrs construction
time in it including painting and rebuilding my own engine.
Keep pounding those rivets,
John Henley, N57LD, 15 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight N57LD |
John,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (Westerly, RI) (71 hrs)
From: "Henley" <HENLEY(at)SEII.NET>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To:
Subject: RV-List: First Flight N57LD
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 07:36:00 -0500
-- RV-List message posted by: "Henley"
Listners,
I am proud to announce that exactly 5 weeks after selling my RV6, I have
flew my new RV 7 for the first time on June 14th. With a 200 HP IO 360
and Hartzell C/S prop the takeoff and climb performance is exceptional.
This was not a quick build kit and I have approx 1400 hrs construction
time in it including painting and rebuilding my own engine.
Keep pounding those rivets,
John Henley, N57LD, 15 Hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
I am posting this for a friend who wishes to remain anonymous. Recently,
while fitting the wings to his RV-8 he found that he had drilled the hole on
the rear spar of his left hand wing too low, thus violating the edge
distance by between 1/16 - 1/32". Local A&Ps, engineers (not aerospace) and
even a computer nerd or two looked at it and said, "Just fly it."
My friend called Van's and asked them for advice. Their advice was not to
fly it in that condition because it was just too "iffy." They further told
him to remove and replace that portion of the rear wing spar. Our thoughts
on this was that the cure was worse than the disease. We felt that this
would weaken the rear spar.
So now we put to these vast halls of wisdom. What do you think he should
do?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillRVSIX(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | F610 &F611 angle ? |
Hello on plan #34 it's not very clear on how to make the angles that attach
to the longerons and bulkheads (F610 &F611) it looks like they have a slot in
the ends similar to ones i have put in other angles seem like common practice
to keep the angle from cracking but it's not real clear. thanks
Bill Higgins
RV 6
Pembroke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | C-map aviation EKP IIIC gps |
Any pictures of your installation?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Henley
> Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 8:23 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: C-map aviation EKP IIIC gps
>
>
>
> Amit,
> I have a EKP IIIc panel mounted in my RV7 and it works great.
>
> John Henley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
I've got to jump in and agree with Sam here. Yes, there are lots of 20, 30,
40+ year old *certificated* airplanes out there. That isn't what he was
talking about, he was talking about experimentals. I know there are VERY
few 20 year old experimentals that I would be interested in purchasing.
Certificated aircraft have the luxury of being perceived as safe and
well-built. Those of us who have done some research have seen what kind of
"craftsmanship" most of these aircraft display. Considering what I've seen
in the garden variety Cessna, I would be extremely surprised to learn that
every (any?) single hole in that airframe was deburred. I'll stack my RV up
against *any* Spam can any time.
Personally, I deburred all of my holes. I don't know if it's absolutely
necessary, but then again I'm no engineer and I'm not willing to deviate
from established practices. My RV has 6 years on it now, and I hope to fly
it for another 30 (God willing, the creek don't rise, and my medical holds
out) but I stand by Sam and think that after 20 years, a large portion of
them won't be around, and for the ones that are, they won't be worth all
that much.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> Lets see, its got to be more than thirty years ago that "they" were saying
> that the B-52 wouldn't last either. Are there any Ercoupes or Cessna 120's
> still flying. KABONG
>
>
> > I stand by my statement that most of our planes will be out to pasture
> > by the time they are twenty years old.....and the whole purpose of this
> > nonsense is to make us consider whether or not we should obsess over
> > trying to build a plane that will last forever....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Some observations. |
>Deburring, yes I am deburring. I challenged a comment made to me about
>making a A&P laugh. I asked the one of the local guys about deburring
>before dimpling. He reply was, "Why the Hel
do you want to do that?"
A&P mechanics are not usually builders and many are grossly incompetent.
I have no argument with one who wants to build a perfect airplane. I just
hate to see the situation where the builder burns out after a year or two
of perfection and gives up on the project. In terms of time and money, a
perfect airplane might cost several times that of an acceptable one. A
showplane builder at Oshkosh told me that behind every showplane is a big
pile of scrap.
I wonder if private airplanes will be legal at all in 20 years?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
Ouch. If it were me, I would replace the rear spar, I wouldn't even
consider flying it in that condition. The reason that rear spar edge
distance has become the Holy Grail of things to avoid is that people have
died proving it.
As far as I know only -3's have had this failure, but I'm not positive.
The -8 may be more or less sensitive to it, but it gives me the heebee
jeebee's thinking about it.
Replacing the rear spar doesn't have to weaken it as long as it's done
right. It will be a pain in the rear, but IMHO, worth the piece of mind.
Most A&P's probably don't know about this issue. When I was building my 6a
I happened into a maintenance facility where the mechanics were finishing
a -4 for an individual. They had just finished the wings and I noticed that
there were TWO attachment holes in the left rear spar! I asked the guy
about it and he said that the owner had drilled the first hole, but the
incidence was off so he put one in the "proper" place. Neither hole had
proper edge distance, and there was just a 1/16" or so between the two
holes. I tried to encourage him to call Van's and discuss it with him, and
I was told that there was plenty of material there and to mind my own
business. Yikes.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
> I am posting this for a friend who wishes to remain anonymous. Recently,
> while fitting the wings to his RV-8 he found that he had drilled the hole
on
> the rear spar of his left hand wing too low, thus violating the edge
> distance by between 1/16 - 1/32". Local A&Ps, engineers (not aerospace)
and
> even a computer nerd or two looked at it and said, "Just fly it."
>
> My friend called Van's and asked them for advice. Their advice was not to
> fly it in that condition because it was just too "iffy." They further
told
> him to remove and replace that portion of the rear wing spar. Our
thoughts
> on this was that the cure was worse than the disease. We felt that this
> would weaken the rear spar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
Scott wrote:
>My friend called Van's and asked them for advice.
I am not at all sure which spar or hole you are talking about but I can
tell you this. Van is now acting as he must to avoid lawsuits. Get the
A&P who tells you to go fly it to put it in writing!
Won't matter, I guess, since the mechanic won't have the deep pockets to
sue for anyway.
I thought the 2X rules were for rivets?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
>Ed Bundy wrote:
>
> The reason that rear spar edge
>distance has become the Holy Grail of things to avoid is that people have
>died proving it.
>
>As far as I know only -3's have had this failure,
One RV3 as I heard. And it is unclear (archives?) that the failure at this
bolt was the cause or a result of some other failure. At any rate, it was
a completely different design. With it there was one piece sticking out of
the fuselage and one out of the wing. Such design allows the bolt to be
placed in tension. The new design keeps the bolt in shear.
However, the critical loads on this bolt are created by the flaps at full
extension and by loads from crashing.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Clamping Vacuum Hoses |
Listers,
For those who are using a vacuum system:
What is the accepted practice for hose type and clamping (or not
clamping) the hoses between regulator and instruments and between filter
and instruments?
What I found in the 3/8" size that seems ok is Aeroequip 306. However,
it is very stiff. With effort, it slides over the fittings. With much
effort, it can be removed from fittings. I have found (at ACS) clamps
that will certainly secure these hoses (Aero-seal QS-100 and QS-200)but
they are relatively heavy.
I'll appreciate any comments or experience.
Thanks in advance.
Richard Dudley
-6A N331RD reserved
panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | EKP IIIc gps and the ePanelbuilder |
For those interested, I already sent the ePanelbuilder site a link,
dimensions and a bitmap of the EKP IIIc gps. I don't know if that project
has been abandoned.
(http://www.epanelbuilder.com).
Amit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
| From: | tlutgring(at)juno.com |
How about peace of mind. Will that edge distance problem creep into
"your friends" mind every time he pulls on that control stick? Will it
affect how he flies the plane that he may not completely trust?
just my two cents,
Tom RV-9A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Tank Access Panel Screws |
Ok, it seem quite a few people are switching to Hex head 1/2" 8-32
stainless steel screws for attaching the tank access cover. Does this
seem to be right route to take? I have the screws and just ordered some
stainless steel washers to go under the heads. Trying to get some fule
lube to put on the cork gasket and fuel fittings, Aircaft Spruce is out
of stock right now.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
| Subject: | Some observations. |
You are absolutely correct. When I resume building, I will have a new
fuselage kit and will be glad for it. I built my tail with no
pre-punched parts and enjoyed it thoroughly, and then built my wings
with pre-punched skins and enjoyed that, too. I have the usual
'do-overs' and some riveting dings and such, but my surfaces are
straight because I riveted on fixtures. The point of my previous post
was to point out that the riveting process can cause alignment to
'creep'. I remember in one of George's tapes he showed how flexible the
structure remained until the final skin was attached. Too bad you can't
rivet with all the skins attached in most cases. By the way, no one
said that a fixture had to be the 'traditional' H jig, though I think it
would be difficult to rivet the wings in a cradle. For the fuselage, a
series of leveled saw-horses should suffice. My RV-7 plans are packed
for the move so I can't check but I believe that's what Van recommended.
For the record, I don't believe in the necessity for elaborate or
expensive jigs either (you can find lots of prior discussion on this in
the archives). Mine was only fancy because I needed to make it
compatible with an apartment living room. Anyway, I think your
'experiment' showed what a great job Vans has done on the kit over the
years. But he still has not made it 'builder-proof' and I just
wanted folk to be aware of the pitfalls.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A project relocating
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RV-List: Some observations.
*** snip ***
For anyone to think that the new pre punched kits are inviting shoddy
workmanship is way off base. It is the builder not the kit.
*** snip ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Help on selecting tools |
In a message dated 6/23/02 8:24:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
<< I might add that using my hand squeezer to set all them -4 rivets in my
rollbar
(tipper) I gave myself a right dandy case of tendonitis (tennis elbow) doing
all
those rivets- Took about 5 months to heal. It might be a good opportunity
to at
least borrow one of these for this task...
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark >>
Use conduit or something to make a set of cheater bars that slip over the
handles of your squeezers. You won't overload the squeezers - they are made
to handle 1/8" rivets. The additional leverage makes 1/8" rivets much easier.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
Ed, I think I can agree with you but the issue for me was not the resale
value but rather the safety of the airframe over its working life. When
I finally get my baby built, I expect it will last as long as any spam
can (barring accidents) and I hope it will outlast me. That means
someone will be flying it, even if they paid a pittance for all my work.
Possibly it will be someone in my family who inherits it. So I don't
know how long I am building it for; my attitude says 'indefinitely'.
As for production construction, I have also seen some areas in a/c I
have rented that raise the hair on the back of my neck. I also worked
for American International Airways (before Kitty Hawk absorbed it) and
watched the A&Ps doing repair work. I should build as well (let alone
as fast). It's easy to see how errors can occur given the complexity of
the structure and systems they have to work on but they adhered to
accepted practices and standards, even if they had to stop and look up
spec for the task they were performing. I get the impression that
light-plane construction and maintenance are not as tightly regulated.
But I don't see how we, as builders, can go wrong by setting our
standards at least as high as 'acceptable practice'.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A project in transit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Bundy
Subject: Re: RV-List: Debur
I've got to jump in and agree with Sam here. Yes, there are lots of 20,
30,
40+ year old *certificated* airplanes out there. That isn't what he was
talking about, he was talking about experimentals. I know there are
VERY
few 20 year old experimentals that I would be interested in purchasing.
Certificated aircraft have the luxury of being perceived as safe and
well-built. Those of us who have done some research have seen what kind
of
"craftsmanship" most of these aircraft display. Considering what I've
seen
in the garden variety Cessna, I would be extremely surprised to learn
that
every (any?) single hole in that airframe was deburred. I'll stack my
RV up
against *any* Spam can any time.
Personally, I deburred all of my holes. I don't know if it's absolutely
necessary, but then again I'm no engineer and I'm not willing to deviate
from established practices. My RV has 6 years on it now, and I hope to
fly
it for another 30 (God willing, the creek don't rise, and my medical
holds
out) but I stand by Sam and think that after 20 years, a large portion
of
them won't be around, and for the ones that are, they won't be worth all
that much.
Ed Bundy - RV6A N427EM 500+ hours
160hp 0320 w/Sensenich 70x78
Eagle, ID
ebundy(at)velocitus.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
In a message dated 6/23/02 11:54:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes:
However, the critical loads on this bolt are created by the flaps at full
extension and by loads from crashing.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) >>
With absolutely no intention of starting a flame war, I would NOT accept the
above information at anything like face value. The only organization which
has run the calculations on our airframes is Vans. Anyone else offering
structural advice in absoulute terms (like above) is offering advice that
s/he probably can't support.
For what it is worth, the aft spar attach bolt handles the drag load, which
is what prevents our wings from "sweeping" at 210 miles an hour. Also, that
bolt handles the majority of the torsional load when you apply aileron in a
roll (I'm guessing that can be a much higher torsional load that what is
applied by the flaps). Finally, that bolt handles another set of torsional
loads imposed by flight at various angles of attack.
This is a critical bolt. Handle it as such. You've already called Van's.
Call 'em back. One thing I've seen "offered" in the RVator is "If you make a
major screw-up, call the factory and we'll get an engineer to look at the
situation." This may take more than a phone call - you may have to
ask/beg/grovel to get an objective (engineering) answer.
If that fails, ask for their calculations on the structural loads on that
bolt. They should be able to give you a summary of the design loads on that
bolt, plus the safety factor (which may be 2x because that is a critical
attach point). Take that information plus the information on your hole's
location to a DER (Designated Engineering Representative), or an engineer who
is competent to evaluate the facts.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
| Subject: | Some observations. |
Perfection and acceptable standard are two things. My work is
definitely not perfect (I learned to rivet twice, it was so long between
the tail and the wings . I've got the dings to prove it.) but it
is within standards and has been critiqued by an IA (who told me it was
perfectly fine but why didn't I do this? Or this? Or...) My project is
taking a long time due to other circumstances; I don't have that many
hours invested, they're just spread out. My standard has been safety,
not show quality. One area where I am somewhat compulsive is alignment,
which is why I'm such a fixture advocate. I've built model airplanes,
especially high-performance sailplanes, long enough to understand the
cumulative effect of small alignment errors.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A project in transit
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kempthornes
Subject: Re: RV-List: Some observations.
*** snip ***
I have no argument with one who wants to build a perfect airplane. I
just
hate to see the situation where the builder burns out after a year or
two
of perfection and gives up on the project. In terms of time and money,
a
perfect airplane might cost several times that of an acceptable one. A
showplane builder at Oshkosh told me that behind every showplane is a
big
pile of scrap.
*** snip ***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Some observations. |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of kempthornes
Subject: Re: RV-List: Some observations.
A&P mechanics are not usually builders and many are grossly incompetent.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
-----------------------------------------
OK, generalities are fine, but I have to take a bit of offense to such a
stereotypical comment. The fact that someone is an A&P matters little as to
the outcome of his/her airplane. We've all seen heaps of garbage that were
built by A&P's, but we've also seen some of the best work out there done by
A&P's. Same goes with everyone building an airplane. I think the quality
of the job is determined by several things, mainly common sense. I'm
building and RV6 with another A&P, and our plane is not "perfect", but as
close as we can make it. We are both good mechanics, and whether it's
deburring, priming, wiring, plumbing, etc..., we try to do a good job, and
make the plane safe. I agree there are lot's of incompetent people out
there, but I'd hazard to guess that there are more competent A&P's than
"grossly incompetent" ones. I'll also tell you from experience there are
just as many stupd non-A&P's as certified ones. Anyway, I could go on for
hours, and I won't make any arrogant statements.
For the rest of you, I just moved the plane to the hangar for final prepping
and paint. One last project is to convert one tank with a flop tube in it,
and then I'm ready for final assembly and paint. FYI, we started the
project 14 months ago, and yes, it's an "old, slow build" kit.
It's amazing with two "competent" A&P's can do in such a short time.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6-N664SB, Minneapolis, prepping for paint.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Henley" <henley(at)seii.net> |
| Subject: | EKP IIIc GPS Mounting |
Here is how I mounted my GPS (no pictures available). I mounted it to
the left of and beside the radio stack which is just to the right of
panel centerline. I removed the rear cover from the GPS and moved the
power and antenna receptacles so that they exit the rear of the unit
rather than the top. I then attached a piece of aluminum to either side
of the unit that follow the curvature of the side and will lay flat
against the instrument panel. There are nuts on either side or the unit
in the rear cover that work fior this purpose. I cut a big hole in the
panel so that the rear of the unit will fit into the panel. Lastly,
mount a couple of platenuts on either side of the unit on the rear of
the instrument panel and run screws from the front through the aluminum
"mounting tabs" into the platenuts. I am mounting an EFIS to the left of
the GPS so I didn't need panel space for all the round instruments. You
can buy a cable from Cmap for $17 that plugs into the power connection
receptacle that contains not only wires for power but also wires for the
NEMA output as well as others. I hard wired the unit to my airplane.
There is no space available below the GPS for switches.
This GPS has a great picture and is sunlight readable even with this old
man's eyes.
John Henley
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi:
I had installed the brake valve, on the lower left corner of fuselage, but
now I realized that I must change location, I did not left enough space to
do a good installation of the control cable, going to the arm..of this small
unit.. too crowded in there...
I would like to see, some of the installations used, hopefully a good photo
of
this..
Thanks for any suggestions etc..
Bert
rv6a
working on panel..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
>
> However, the critical loads on this bolt are created by the flaps at full
> extension and by loads from crashing.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK flying!
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) >>
>
> With absolutely no intention of starting a flame war, I would NOT accept
the
> above information at anything like face value. The only organization
which
> has run the calculations on our airframes is Vans. Anyone else offering
> structural advice in absoulute terms (like above) is offering advice that
> s/he probably can't support.
>
> For what it is worth, the aft spar attach bolt handles the drag load,
which
> is what prevents our wings from "sweeping" at 210 miles an hour. Also,
that
> bolt handles the majority of the torsional load when you apply aileron in
a
> roll (I'm guessing that can be a much higher torsional load that what is
> applied by the flaps). Finally, that bolt handles another set of
torsional
> loads imposed by flight at various angles of attack.
>
> This is a critical bolt. Handle it as such. You've already called Van's.
> Call 'em back. One thing I've seen "offered" in the RVator is "If you
make a
> major screw-up, call the factory and we'll get an engineer to look at the
> situation." This may take more than a phone call - you may have to
> ask/beg/grovel to get an objective (engineering) answer.
>
> If that fails, ask for their calculations on the structural loads on that
> bolt. They should be able to give you a summary of the design loads on
that
> bolt, plus the safety factor (which may be 2x because that is a critical
> attach point). Take that information plus the information on your hole's
> location to a DER (Designated Engineering Representative), or an engineer
who
> is competent to evaluate the facts.
>
> Kyle Boatright
> 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
> Kennesaw, GA
> http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
There is apparently one other loading on the drag fitting that is sometimes
not recognized: On a sharp pullup the lift vector moves way forward with
the resultant tendency to pull the drag fitting our (wing wants to sweep
forward). This can be a serious condition and the wing may fail forward
especially if roll imput is added to the pull. If that happens and the drag
fitting disengages, the wing pitching moment will twist the main spar and it
too will fail. I would be unwilling to compromise that fitting.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | AN316-6 Jam Nut (checknut) installation torque |
Short ans: 160-190 inch-lbs: ref below
Long ans with soapbox:
One of the most fundamental, irritating annoyances with the plans is
that along side every bolt, nut, screw combination there is no torque
value. Vans takes great pride (and rightly so) in supplying everything
you need to complete the air frame, but I have in total spent hours
trying to nail down torque values that should have been there in the
plans. Must be a black ink shortage.
BTW, please spare me the "bible of aircraft maintenance is AC43.13-1B"
bull. In my opinion AC43.13-1B is only similar to the "bible" in that it
has no index and that after reading it several times, you still have to
pray. Proof? Go to archives and search on keyword 'torque'.
Having said that:
Just finished searching the archives trying to find out the correct
torque for 316 type jam nuts (checknut AC43.13.-1B section 7-70). Yes I
do read the !#!$ thing.
I found everything from simply "it's technical, look it up" to numerous
admonitions to go to the "bible" (AC43.13-1B) with an oblique/direct air
of "don't bother the list with your trivial question". This to a fellow
builder who had the audacity to ask "how do you read the torque table in
AC43.13.1B?". Ans: over and over very carefully, see example below.
All in all interesting reading but not informative, no 'the answer
is....' replies. Hence the reason for my post.
So measuring the diameter of the rod end bearing (3/8") and counting the
threads (24) per inch (not threads/post :>)), I came up with 3/8-24 for
the rod end bearing that uses the AN316-6 nut. Checking with the torque
table of confusion, page 7-9, table 7-1, I come up with a (tension)
value of 160-190 psi (that's inch pounds of torque). This assumes that
the table actually applies in this instance.
To convert to foot- pounds: divide the inch-pound value by 12 though by
my stage in the game (fuselage), you will have already bought an inch-lb
torque wrench.
As a supplement to the AC43.13-1B I recommend the "Standard Aircraft
Handbook" McGraw-Hill, ISBN 0-8306-8634-7. Unfortunately, neither is a
good substitute for the addition of torque values to the RV plan sets.
If I am incorrect, please inform the list so that the next person or
persons doing a search on this subject will find real numbers to work
with.
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8-SB Fuselage mounting tail section
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Builder's Bookstore" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
During each preflight, I reach down to each exhaust stack and give them
a shake. Today I noticed that each seemed to "wiggle" around a little
more than I was used to. A closer inspection showed that the Adel
clamps used to support the aft end of the pipe to the engine mount had
both cracked and broke at the 90 degree bend of the clamp. My last
flight before today was a 2 hour trip, so they both must have failed
during that flight. Funny that after almost 200 hours, they both broke
at the same time.
Anyway, it took about 45 minutes to pull the cowl, replace both clamps,
inspect the rest of the exhaust system for cracks since they were
hanging free for a while (there weren't any), button back up the cowl,
and fire up.
No big deal. I put this in the category of expected minor maintenance.
Just one more thing to pay attention to.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 VS installation height |
Problem:
On Dwg 27, section D-D', there are two dimensions to consider when
mounting the Vertical stabilizer to the fuselage of the RV8. The
forward one is measured between the forward VS and the top skin and
should be between 1/16 and 1/8 inch. The second dimension is at the
rear VS and is measured between the top of the f812b on the fuselage and
the top of the bottom hinge on the VS and should be 8 and 1/8 inch.
The measurements on my installation show that my VS is mounted 1/8 " too
high in front (1/8-3/16) and the rear VS measurement is 1/8 too much (8
and 1/4). Everything else seems ok, no rudder binding,leveled, etc.
Question:
Has anyone on the list encountered this same problem, said "close
enough", and moved on? Problems encountered?
I have sent this to VANS support (expect response Monday or so) but
would like list input.
Thanks,
Vince Himsl
RV8-SB Mounting empennage on fuselage
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: tipper Canopy in Flight! |
hi dick
boy was i close to a 1st flight today, the last thing on the checklist was
canopy latch, and it would not come all the way down to set the primary
latch. i think the interferance is comming from behind the panel, but we
trimmed, bent, wiggled everything we could think of with no help. i guess
i'll have to take it off and really take a good look at it. other than that,
the test pilot did a high speed runup with the nose pointed up and it just
purrs like a kitten. maybe next weekend.
scott
tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
Just some food for thought on the value of old metal airplanes. The last
DC 3 (C 47) I flew (1982) was built in 1944 and had over 10,000 hours
on it at that time, and is still flying. Up to the last time I flew it
never had a skin repair. The only sheet metal work done on it was to
comply with an AD on the wing attach angles. This aircraft was primed
throughout when built.The current market value is approx. five times
what it was in 1965.
I picked up a new DeHavilland Beaver at the factory in Toronto in 1953
for the company I was working for and the price was $52,000 Canadian,
the current market value is anywhere from $250,000 to $350,00 and there
is not many for sale.These aircraft were primed throughout when built.
My RV 6 was 10 years old in May of this year and has had no airframe
repairs, it is also primed throughout.There is no signs or any wear and
looks the same as it did in 1992. It did a lot of hard work with the
testing of the floats. Though it is not for sale I have been offered the
same amount as is being asked for one built recently.
There is no evidence of corrosion on any of these aircraft.
A 1946 Aeronca Champ with the original C65 engine and good fabric sold
recently for $18,000. I ferried several from Middletown Ohio to Calgary
in 1946-47 and can remember giving them a check for $3250.00 on taking
delivery.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Vacuum System Hose Clamps |
Listers,
For those who are using a vacuum system:
What is the accepted practice for hose type and clamping (or not
clamping) the hoses between regulator and instruments and between filter
and instruments?
What I found in the 3/8" size that seems ok is Aeroequip 306. However,
it is very stiff. With effort, it slides over the fittings. With much
effort, it can be removed from fittings. I have found (at ACS) clamps
that will certainly secure these hoses (Aero-seal QS-100 and QS-200)but
they are relatively heavy.
I'll appreciate any comments or experience.
Thanks in advance.
Richard Dudley
-6A N331RD reserved
panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
Heck, Eustace, I'd double that offer - if I could afford it. But then,
we all got a good look at your work with so much written about the float
conversion at the time. Happy belated anniversary to the -6F and will
we ever see a -7f? Or, more properly, what are you working on now?
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A project in transit
Ps - "the same amount as is being asked for one built recently" Has
another been built? I thought yours was one of a kind. I've been out
of touch for a few years, tho...
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Eustace Bowhay
Subject: RV-List: Debur
*** snip ***
My RV 6 was 10 years old in May of this year and has had no airframe
repairs, it is also primed throughout.There is no signs or any wear and
looks the same as it did in 1992. It did a lot of hard work with the
testing of the floats. Though it is not for sale I have been offered the
same amount as is being asked for one built recently.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 VS installation height |
I had similar but different VS problems.
I took the 1/8" measurement from the fwd tip of the VS to the fuse to
mean min clearance. If I recall correctly, its says somewhere the
bottom, fwd edge of the VS may be filed slightly to allow this
clearance. That's what I had to do to get the other dimensions to fall
into place. Otherwise no problems.
-
Larry Bowen
RV-8 canopy
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vince Himsl
> Sent: Sunday, June 23, 2002 4:45 PM
> To: RV List Server (RV List Server)
> Subject: RV-List: RV8 VS installation height
>
>
>
>
> Problem:
> On Dwg 27, section D-D', there are two dimensions to consider
> when mounting the Vertical stabilizer to the fuselage of the
> RV8. The forward one is measured between the forward VS and
> the top skin and should be between 1/16 and 1/8 inch. The
> second dimension is at the rear VS and is measured between
> the top of the f812b on the fuselage and the top of the
> bottom hinge on the VS and should be 8 and 1/8 inch.
>
> The measurements on my installation show that my VS is
> mounted 1/8 " too high in front (1/8-3/16) and the rear VS
> measurement is 1/8 too much (8 and 1/4). Everything else
> seems ok, no rudder binding,leveled, etc.
>
> Question:
> Has anyone on the list encountered this same problem, said
> "close enough", and moved on? Problems encountered?
>
> I have sent this to VANS support (expect response Monday or
> so) but would like list input.
>
> Thanks,
> Vince Himsl
> RV8-SB Mounting empennage on fuselage
> Moscow, ID USA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EKP IIIc gps and the ePanelbuilder |
I am still working on the ePanelBuiilder, I have just been very busy with my
plane lately... I will try to get caught up on adding stuff this next
week...
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: EKP IIIc gps and the ePanelbuilder
Date: Sun, 23 Jun 2002 16:02:55 +0000
For those interested, I already sent the ePanelbuilder site a link,
dimensions and a bitmap of the EKP IIIc gps. I don't know if that project
has been abandoned.
(http://www.epanelbuilder.com).
Amit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Meketa" <acgm(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 Rear spar bolt hole - major problem |
Hello anonymous friend,
Why remain anonymous? Admit to the mistake and fix it. If you do not
fix it, the thing will always be in the back of your mind or if not, should
be.
We are constantly warned about how important this hole is and checking
several times before drilling is important. An experienced builder helped
in the set-up and drilling of my rear spar. I was not as careful as when
making all decisions myself and gave too much authority to the other
builder. I had the exact same problem on the same wing. The edge distance
on one wing spar was 1/16 off. This was difficult to see until the wing was
removed for deburing. I found no differences on the wings and feel that the
difference was at the fuselage attach points. The engineer at Vans told me
that no Quick builds had predrilled pilot holes in the fuselage spar. I was
sure
mine were, but felt I must have been wrong after talking to him. Looking
at three QB's since then has proven that they come or maybe used to come
pilot drilled. The amount of material on the wing spar gives very little
room
for error (+/- 1/8 inch) to get it right. On one with something off a
little, as
in mine, room for error would be less. Maybe 0.00 inches if the wings are
set to the incidence in the plans. This is even if the wings were set at the
same
incidence and not using the factory pilot holes. With both wings at exactly
the same incidence over the entire length, the required wing spar hole
locations can be slightly different. With the pilot holes in the fuselage,
this
can be a difficult task in itself.
I had two options. Leave it alone as many people suggested, or fix it. The
person that helped obviously felt bad and suggested talking to Van himself
about a fix. Most others said to leave it and forget it.
I never got to Van himself, but was told by the engineer that I could either
replace both spars and redrill or build a new spar. Using a factory spar
replacement would not fix the problem without replacing both and changing
the incidence on both wings. This would have made the already large gap
between the lower fuselage skin and wing skin larger at the rear and
change the incidence from the plans. I decided that building a new spar
from aluminum stock and adding extra material to the end would be the
answer.
I ordered an original spar as a drill template and enough material to build
two
new wing spars. The fabricated spar was manufactured with extra material
in the spar attach area. The flap brace, old spar and several inner ribs
were
drilled out. I mentioned my plan to an area A&P-RV4 builder and was talked
out of using any pull rivets. After removing the spar I felt comfortable
that all the
holes were OK for standard rivets. To allow bucking of the rivets the inner
three or four ribs were now removed. This allowed access to all rivets for
bucking. The wing was re-installed and wing geometery re-measured and
clamped in place. A new hole drilled in the wing spar was then reamed
for an AN oversized bolt, the wing was removed and the extra spar material
sanded off for proper edge distance and to clear the bottom wing and
fuselage skins.
After crying for a week and ordering the parts from Vans ($100 worth of
parts and overnight shipping) the job only took two nights to complete. Once
started, the job was really not all that difficult and the peace of mind is
very
reassuring. This is really not that big of a deal. Nothing compared to the
time required to have a nice canopy skirt.
A fix for your plane would depend on how much the edge distance is
off, how do the skins overlap under the plane, is the incidence where it
should be and is the incidence the same on both wings. If the wing
incidence
is changed, the horizontal incidence may be out in relation to the wing. I
had to
raise my horizontal to get the elevator horns even with the horizontal in
level
solo flight. It would have been off even further if I had replaced both
spars and
lowered the rear wing spar.
If you have any questions let me know. I can get the oversized bolts for
about
$10-15 each and will loan the reamer for shipping charges.
George Meketa RV-8 89 hours
> > I am posting this for a friend who wishes to remain anonymous.
Recently,
> while fitting the wings to his RV-8 he found that he had drilled the hole
on
> the rear spar of his left hand wing too low, thus violating the edge
> distance by between 1/16 - 1/32". Local A&Ps, engineers (not aerospace)
and
> even a computer nerd or two looked at it and said, "Just fly it."
>
> My friend called Van's and asked them for advice. Their advice was not to
> fly it in that condition because it was just too "iffy." They further
told
> him to remove and replace that portion of the rear wing spar. Our
thoughts
> on this was that the cure was worse than the disease. We felt that this
> would weaken the rear spar.
>
> So now we put to these vast halls of wisdom. What do you think he should
> do?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>I'll add a little salad with that food for thought. My 48 Show Bonanza
has
>absolutely no primer at all. It has never had a single component
replaced
>in its lifetime.
In contrast, over the years I have inspected at lest several airplanes
that weren't that old that had so much corrosion inside the wings they
were complete junk. Looked like someone had sprayed some sort of dull
white powder all over. Not a pretty site. Not internally primed, of
course.
It depends on where you keep them (humid vs dry environment; salt air vs
not), how you fly them (sea plane vs land), maintenance and several
things we probably don't understand.
Priming the parts is not a big deal. The primer can be very thinly
applied (diluted with MEK) and still be effective. And why not prime.
Personal preference. If your bird is going to live in Arizona its entire
life, forget priming. Live on a sea coast? Prime.
IMHO
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Rod End Bearing Tool Tip |
Hello,
Was watching the tube a week or so ago and came across one of those
miracle tools that is supposed to do everything. I normally zap'em but
this one I paid attention to. Always on the look out for some
revolutionary and cheap (emphasis on cheap) airplane building tool or
technique, I mentally filed it away until today when I needed something
to adjust the rudder rod end bearings.
It is called the Gator Grip, costs @ $15.00, and I bought mine at
WalMart. It is a special socket filled with a bunch of pins that are
spring loaded to form around most any object up to about 3/4" in
diameter.
I don't know how it works on nuts and bolts but it works perfectly when
adjusting the rod end bearings that attach the rudder and elevators to
airplane without chewing them and the aluminum skin up.
I have just used it on the rudder rod end bearings and it works great
and it didn't mark them. One had a slight mark on it but I believe it
was from my earlier attempts to get at it with a wrench.
Oh, and you can get it on a Sunday afternoon.
Hope this helps!
Regards
Vince Himsl
RV8-SB (fuselage, mounting the elevators)
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Rod End Bearing Tool Tip |
Hello,
Was watching the tube a week or so ago and came across one of those
miracle tools that is supposed to do everything. I normally zap'em but
this one I paid attention to. Always on the look out for some
revolutionary and cheap (emphasis on cheap) airplane building tool or
technique, I mentally filed it away until today when I needed something
to adjust the rudder rod end bearings.
It is called the Gator Grip, costs @ $15.00, and I bought mine at
WalMart. It is a special socket filled with a bunch of pins that are
spring loaded to form around most any object up to about 3/4" in
diameter.
I don't know how it works on nuts and bolts but it works perfectly when
adjusting the rod end bearings that attach the rudder and elevators to
airplane without chewing them and the aluminum skin up.
I have just used it on the rudder rod end bearings and it works great
and it didn't mark them. One had a slight mark on it but I believe it
was from my earlier attempts to get at it with a wrench.
Oh, and you can get it on a Sunday afternoon.
Hope this helps!
Regards
Vince Himsl
RV8-SB (fuselage, mounting the elevators)
Moscow, ID USA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: AN316-6 Jam Nut (checknut) installation torque |
In a message dated 6/23/2002 9:23:42 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
vhimsl(at)turbonet.com writes:
> Is the an316-6 under shear or under tension when used on the rod end
> bearings that attach the rudder and elevators to the airplane? I think
> they are under tension. If so, I believe (notice I didn't say know) the
> 160-190 is correct.
It doesn't matter how it's used. What matters is whether it is a shear nut
(designed to have one thread diameter of engaged thread length or less) or a
tension nut (designed to have one and one half thread diameters of engaged
thread length or more). Compare the total length of the threads in the metal
portion of the nut with the fastener major thread diameter to see which you
have.
In other words, a tension nut has sufficient thread length to carry the full
rated tension load of the fastener, the shear nut does not. Torquing the
shear nut to tension nut values will result in thread yield (damage) that
could contribute to ultimate failure of the fastened joint.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 525hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vacuum System Hose Clamps |
In a message dated 6/23/2002 4:04:32 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
rhdudley(at)att.net writes:
> For those who are using a vacuum system:
>
> What is the accepted practice for hose type and clamping (or not
> clamping) the hoses between regulator and instruments and between filter
> and instruments?
I used the "squeeze to release" steel leaf automotive type of clamp as they
are quite light and do the job. They probably have a proper name but I don't
know it.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 525hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RW" <chiefs(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tipper Canopy in Flight! |
scott,
Sorry you couldn't make it work this weekend. Seems like I spent a lot of
time fixing things that weren't right. It is still more than worth the
wait. You're gonna love it!
I am still dinking with my wheel pants.
dick
----- Original Message -----
From: <ABAYMAN(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: tipper Canopy in Flight!
>
> hi dick
> boy was i close to a 1st flight today, the last thing on the checklist was
> canopy latch, and it would not come all the way down to set the primary
> latch. i think the interferance is comming from behind the panel, but we
> trimmed, bent, wiggled everything we could think of with no help. i guess
> i'll have to take it off and really take a good look at it. other than
that,
> the test pilot did a high speed runup with the nose pointed up and it just
> purrs like a kitten. maybe next weekend.
> scott
> tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
Could someone please give me the real world amount of proseal it will take
to do both tanks? I'd rather have leftover of the dreaded goo, than not
enough.
Thanks,
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Wings final drilled.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank Access Panel Screws |
I did mine this way simply so I could get the cover off (gawdforbid!) without
pulling the tank- It's gotta be a whole lot easier with an allen wrench in
there than a screwdriver, plus it looks way cool if you want to pull your
fairings to show 'em off! 8
)
Phillips screws? We don't need no stinkin' Phillips screws!
Screwing around at the PossumWorks
Mark PHILLIPS
>
> Ok, it seem quite a few people are switching to Hex head 1/2" 8-32
> stainless steel screws for attaching the tank access cover. Does this
> seem to be right route to take?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal amount. |
I used about 1 1/3 cans to do mine and had no leaks...
-Bill
http://vondane.com/rv8a
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Proseal amount.
Date: Mon, 24 Jun 2002 07:23:29 -0400
Could someone please give me the real world amount of proseal it will take
to do both tanks? I'd rather have leftover of the dreaded goo, than not
enough.
Thanks,
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Wings final drilled.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
Gentlemen,
I just received my engine (IO-360) built up by an engine shop. I was
noticing that the studs for the mags and the prop governor (5/16-18)are
equipped with the star type lock washers and plain nuts. Is the customary
for this application or should I be looking for nuts that can be saftied or
the metal lock nuts?
It also appears that the same studs, lock washers, and nuts are used for the
exhaust system.
Vince Welch
RV-8A
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Bolts |
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I just received my engine (IO-360) built up by an engine shop. I was
>noticing that the studs for the mags and the prop governor (5/16-18)are
>equipped with the star type lock washers and plain nuts. Is the customary
>for this application or should I be looking for nuts that can be saftied or
>the metal lock nuts?
>
>It also appears that the same studs, lock washers, and nuts are used for
>the
>exhaust system.
>
>Vince Welch
>RV-8A
>
Vince,
That's typical Lycoming hardware. Kinda surprised me as well, but hasn't
been a problem once properly torqued.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
293 hrs.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Eric.J.Henson(at)chase.com |
| Subject: | Wing experiment.-little long. |
08:51:42 AM
Dana, ya have to understand. Blind trust in Van is a subject that can
result in many cases of beer meeting their demize among a blizzard of
horror stories between builders. Most of us way-back builders view what you
are saying with skepticism, because we have all been burned so many times
in so many ways. Before something like this will be widly accepted, it has
to be proven a few times. Which is where you come in. Keep doing what
your'e doing, we're watching. Kinda like the neighborhood kid that rode his
bike off the roof with a chute on his back (although its likely many of us
were that kid). Nothing changes until someone takes a risk. It sounds like
you are going to great lengths to keep yourself out of trouble, so keep up
the reports, its interesting stuff. I'm trying to sway my mind into
believing that someday I can just blindly build one of these.
Eric
"Dana Overall" (at)matronics.com on 06/22/2002 07:28:35
AM
Please respond to rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing experiment.-little long.
>From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
>
>This 'old-timer' remains unconvinced; I would not attempt to build a
>plane without a fixture.
Patrick,
I knew someone would go this route so I did another little experiment last
night to cover my bases:-). I made up a little contraption to hang my
bench
completed horizontal stab from the ceiling using the elevator brackets. I
once again repositioned my trusty "plum" at four points of the HS; both
outboard edges straight down the center line and the inboard side of the
skins using the aft spar flange to position the tip of the "plum" on a
point
on the front spar. Guess what, after following the instructions and
building the HS on the bench (including many flips and flops and adding the
aft spar last)............it too, is dead nu$s straight. I'm not Billy
Graham trying to convert anyone, I'm more of Jack Webb, "just stating the
facts, mam":-). Trust me, seeing is believing.
I know it's hard to believe, but in the new plans there is no mention of
threaded rod to position the leading edge ribs (added the left outer
leading
edge last night), clamps are mentioned only to hold the wing on the
"stand",
no nothing. Trust me, I am not doing anything the plans don't say. Just
following them step by step and I'm trusting their computer a whole lot
more
than I would trust my wooden jig.
Not trying to convince anyone, other than myself............and I have seen
the light:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
http://rvflying.tripod.com
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Proseal amount. |
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
1 of the quart cans Vans sells is plenty.
Gary
Quoting Dana Overall :
>
> Could someone please give me the real world amount of proseal it will
> take
> to do both tanks? I'd rather have leftover of the dreaded goo, than not
>
> enough.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dana Overall
> Richmond, KY
> http://rvflying.tripod.com
> Wings final drilled.
>
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Proseal amount. |
"Mark D. Dickens" wrote:
>
>
> Dana, I can't give you that information from personal experience since I had
> my tanks built, but I do want to point out an older post by Scott McDaniels
> on this subject. He says he uses about a 1/2 a can on a set of tanks. I've
> heard others say they use two cans for a set of tanks. Take a minute and
> read message #31018 or search on "tank sealing process"...it's really too
> bad Scott left the list as his advice was invaluable. Fortunately, you can
> still find it in the archives.
It took about 2/3 of a can for my tanks. Had plenty left over for
various other gluing jobs on the project.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/tanks.html
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 390 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Andrews" <rv8apilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | More on Upholstery |
Speaking of Leather...
I'm in need of some upholstery advice myself.
My plane is going into the paint shop for 60 weeks (it's only six weeks but
it will feel like sixty by the time I get it back) so I'm going to have some
free time on my hands. I notice through regular wear and tear that the side
panels that cover the flap arms are pretty scuffed up. I was thinking that
I should probably cover these with leather.
I'm new at the whole upholstery game. How does one cover aluminum with
leather??? My guess is some sort of spray on adhesive but if so what kind
is best. After sitting out side in the Texas sun, it gets pretty darn hot
inside that fuselage. Is there any kind of glue that can take that heat?
What does one do about the corners. Seems like the leather would bunch up
pretty good turning a 90 degree corner. I assume that you just fold it over
and tack it down somehow.
What say oh wise and experienced ones.
- Jim Andrews
RV-8A ( flying into the paint shop next week )
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Upholstery material
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >On the tapes "From the Ground Up" they were using a material to cover the
> >cabin sides, something plastic based because it melted from a soldering
> >iron. Anyone know of a source or a name for that stuff? I have been to
June 16, 2002 - June 24, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-mz