RV-Archive.digest.vol-nk
September 02, 2002 - September 06, 2002
Folks, (a tad long - delete if not interested) (pics at the bottom)
Just now getting back to report on N856RG since the first flight on 7
August 02. She has now accumulated 64 hours including 2 short trips (800 mile
round trip) from Ohio to New Jersey.
Performance with Aerosport Power (read: Bart Lalonde) O-360 and a Warnke ACS
Air Claw, 1038lbs (w/oil and unusable fuel), pressure recovery pants w/rocket
leg and intersection fairings: cruise is "as Van advertises"........ a nice
comfortable cruise at 8000' at 2450RPM/21.5" yields a TAS of 203-4mph - full
throttle at sea level is right at 210mph (just a tweak shy on RPM's at 2670
but the tach has not been verified). Big grin on my first trip to NJ (with
40.1 hours on the tach) cruising east at 11,500' with a tailwind and seeing a
229mph ground speed.
Climb is also 'as Van advertises - you know the numbers. I'll just mention
that it's a BIG difference from the Kitfox - my RV6 keeps telling me "Rick,
altitude is my friend.........let's go". It's real nice to blast up to 8 or
11K feet and be on top the clouds for a smooth ride - effortlessly.
Clean stalls seem a tad high at about 60 indicated but I believe my airspeed
may be a tad off here - but, that's my number for various speed calculations
(landing config. etc).
Short story: I was in the midst of my test flights and learning how to land
this thing (previous instruction from RV CFI Bob Lynch) when 'we' lost 'our'
friends in Florida. It made me take a second look at what I was doing as
well. New builders - please take appropriate instruction to fly your new
bird. I'll share this (with about 50 hours on the plane) - I was doing very
well with my landings and then took up a local 'CFI friend' who decided to
'critique' my landings. Next thing I know he has me doing it 'his way' which
was a near vertical decent final approach (sound familiar?). I was bouncing
in after a 'not enough ummpphh' flair and then trying to 'regain control' for
the touch and go. This DID NOT work for me. Learn from MY MISTAKE - I was
listening to a CFI that I trusted but who had NO PRIOR RV FLIGHT EXPERIENCE.
I called Bob Lynch as soon as I walked in the door and told him what was
going on and he told me to "get that clown out of my airplane right now"
(sound familiar to the recent posts??? - Bob had no problem telling me what I
needed to do to 'fly and land safely'). I immediately went up again (same
day) and went back to the method Bob taught me and have been landing smoothly
and with confidence ever since - well pretty good anyway :
). Thanks Bob -
for caring and sharing!! I now have about 110 take offs and landings - all
but 5 of those are pretty good - you know which 5 they were.
Trim - manual elevator which I loved from the 1st flight - others like the
electric but for me the manual is great - you just give it a little tweak and
its kinda' foolproof. Manual aileron which works great but I really don't
seem to use - I flip tanks every half hour and don't notice and roll
tendencies. Rudder - I needed a little wedge on the left side about 1" wide X
5" long X 1/4" thick - this took care of about a 3/4 ball out at cruise. It's
still taped on and now I'm too busy flying to paint it :
). The plane flys
hands off.
I've met MANY new friends from the Mid Atlantic Group (see Dougs site) and
will be flying to the RV forum in Oswego (Wx permitting) this weekend with
the gang.
Heres a few pics that I posted on Doug's site if you care to see them:
gound pics
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/files/Rick%20Gray%201/
and
in flight
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/files/Rick%20Gray%202/
Hope you deleted this if it was too long - (yea right......you guys were
hanging on every word :
) and THANKS to all of you!!!
Rick Gray RV6 Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - keepa' poundin' the rivets boys -
you'll be there before you know it!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: [SoCAL-RVlist] Riveted joint test results |
Bill: Thank you for posting the results of your riveted joint strength
comparisons. Good information and well presented, I suggest sending it to
Van's for possible inclusion in the Rvator archives.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel Gordillo" <michell(at)arrakis.es> |
| Subject: | Re: How to fly the wing |
Every landing site is different, and also the way to do it.-
But I have always in mind the procedures used by our oldtimers..... side
slipping the plane to have the wing absorbing the energy !
But the pilot has to be proficient on that ...!
Michel Gordillo
---- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: How to fly the wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Left elevator tabs |
Ken, I tried two different methods for producing little "riblet" for my
aileron trim and elevator trim. The method I used for the aileron trim
worked best for me and involved using some modeling clay. You can see how I
made it here. http://bmnellis.com/wings_ailerons_trim.htm#AileronTrimTab
I didn't document my elevator trim tab riblet very well but you can see what
it looks like here.
http://bmnellis.com/elevator4.htm
You can have the riblet facing either way but squeezing the rivets if you
install it with the flanges out poses a problem. I had the riblet flange
facing out and just used blind rivets. Remember to offset the holes a
little between the top and bottom rivets so you don't have interference
problems.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: RV8-List: Left elevator tabs
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Ken Simmons"
>
> As a follow up to my left elevator being almost finished, the bending of
the
> tabs for the trim tab opening didn't turn out so well. From reading other
> posts it's no big deal to cut off these tabs and insert a rib. The
question
> is what's the best way to do this? Specifically, which way should the rib
be
> positioned and how many rivets on each side? Unfortunately I didn't make
> this decision until the left elevator was riveted so that will add a level
> of difficulty.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | rigging ailerons/flaps with wings in the cradle |
Does anybody see any potentials snags with mounting and rigging the ailerons
and flaps while the wings are in the cradle (leading edge down)? The
instructions say to put the wings topside down onto a bench and rig the
controls that way. I'm curious if anybody sees any snags in going through
this process with the wings vertical.
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (wings 99%)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Whew, its getting deep here. There has been a lot of theorizing going on on
this. There is a real way to test all this stuff that you all have been
discussing. DO IT. Every landing in an RV should be a power off landing.
No reason to do it any way else. (Unless you have special needs, but if you
are landing at a paved airport with between 1500 ft and 10,000 feet of
runway this holds true)
No offense intended, but so often I hear people espousing theories when all
they have to do is go out and fly it. (See my post from about a year ago
regarding controling power with mixture)
OK, so if every landing in your RV is power off, go out and experiment.
Short final at 80 mph: looooooong float, oops almost ballooned, float some
more, flare, down.
If you have a tail dragger, in almost all instances if you are really
landing right, you will touch down tail wheel first. If you have a trigear,
DON'T BE LAZY. Don't fly it on. You should almost be grinding off the tie
down ring below your rudder (do they have one? a la Cessna 152?)
If you are flying your trigear on, you are landing faster than you have to.
If you do it right, no matter what speed you choose to "land" at, the plane
will actually land at the same speed. (Assuming constant weight, its
actually the same angle of attack)
Now fly final at 75 mph: Some float, fairly easy. Pretty good.
Fly final at 70: Hmm a bit of a sink, but manageable if you know when to
flare. Actually this is a pretty good compromise.
Final at 65 mph: This is the slowest I fly final power off. Considerable
sink and only one shot to flare. If I screw up, I will plop it on.
You need the sink to be minimal at the time of touchdown, what the sink rate
is before the flare is irrelevant. If you have the skill to fly final,
power off at 55 and can nail the flare every time so you touch down gently,
then that is how your final approach should be done in an engine out
emergency. If you don't have that skill level you should fly it faster.
If you practice this way, an engine out landing should be no different from
any other landing, other than increased glide performance because you don't
have a windmilling prop.
Another thing to remember is that an emergency landing will most likely be
onto a soft surface. Studies have shown (and I can't back it up but I
remember reading it, and it makes intuitive sense) That if the gear
collapses, the cowl will essentially crush leaving the sharp edge of the
firewall to plough into the ground and cause a very rapid (unsurvivable??)
deceleration. This also plays into the idea of minimal sink (that's what
the flare is for) and minimal speed.
Finally, remember that our aircraft have inertia. A sink takes time to
develop. The trick is to get the sink to ZERO, just a bit above the ground.
Then to gradually keep increasing the angle of attack (come back on the
stick) until the plane just can't fly anymore. Then, even if you are only
going 55 and the sink develops quickly, it will be a gentle landing.
By the way, that is what Vans does when he achieves his amazingly short
landing distances. I don't have the skills he does so I can't land as
short.
My instructor used to tell me when I started my flare that I DON'T WANT YOU
TO LET THE PLANE LAND. Thus, as I began my flare a few feet AGL, I would
continue to come back on the yolk until the plane wouldn't fly anymore.
This mindset fooled a student pilot into getting pretty good at landing a
152.
Strange how so much of what is written comes down to Practice, Practice,
Practice. I have seen more RVs than I can count flown well by good pilots,
then landed horribly at 90 mph. Oh sure, they were straight, no drift, on
the centerline, but they were going much faster than they needed to.
Remember that Kinetic energy is a square function of speed. That means that
if you are going 80 mph, you have 50% more kinetic energy than you have at
65. Thats half again as much kinetic energy the airframe has to absorb if
you hit anything vertical. (80/65 = 1.23 squared = 1.51)
Increase the odds of surviving an engine out. Practice landing slowly, with
the power off, with minimal sink EVERY DAY by making this your standard way
of landing. (I'm not saying pull power to landing on downwind, fly a normal
approach, but your short final should be power off.) They may not always be
pretty. (Tailwheel touches first as the plane starts to sink, decreasing
the angle of attack and the plane "plops" onto the ground) But they are
easy on the airframe, safe and a lot of fun to (try to) perfect.
Sorry for the peachiness.
Don Mei (physics geek)
RV-4 N92CT
3B9 Chester, CT
Americans used to roar like lions for liberty: Now they bleat like sheep for
security
Norman Vincent Peale
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Hi Don,
I have a significantly different opinion than yours on approach speeds. I
believe you must keep in mind runway length, pilot experience, RV weight,
fixed vs constant speed prop, etc.).
I myself normally have at least 10 mph more than your listed speeds. Guess
what, for what I do, there is a much higher safety factor carrying these
speeds. You won't catch me stalling on final approach. I have plenty of
reserve lift, so I will never plop it on.
My formula won't work for everybody since I have a constant speed prop
(which can slow a plane real quick), heavy plane, full flaps, and a long
runway.
Most importantly, the average RV pilot flying an RV at 65mph approach speed
is asking for it sooner or later.
Scott RV6A 5 yrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
> Whew, its getting deep here. There has been a lot of theorizing going on
on
> this. There is a real way to test all this stuff that you all have been
> discussing. DO IT. Every landing in an RV should be a power off landing.
> No reason to do it any way else. (Unless you have special needs, but if
you
> are landing at a paved airport with between 1500 ft and 10,000 feet of
> runway this holds true)
>
> No offense intended, but so often I hear people espousing theories when
all
> they have to do is go out and fly it. (See my post from about a year ago
> regarding controling power with mixture)
>
> OK, so if every landing in your RV is power off, go out and experiment.
> Short final at 80 mph: looooooong float, oops almost ballooned, float
some
> more, flare, down.
>
> If you have a tail dragger, in almost all instances if you are really
> landing right, you will touch down tail wheel first. If you have a
trigear,
> DON'T BE LAZY. Don't fly it on. You should almost be grinding off the
tie
> down ring below your rudder (do they have one? a la Cessna 152?)
>
> If you are flying your trigear on, you are landing faster than you have
to.
> If you do it right, no matter what speed you choose to "land" at, the
plane
> will actually land at the same speed. (Assuming constant weight, its
> actually the same angle of attack)
> Now fly final at 75 mph: Some float, fairly easy. Pretty good.
>
> Fly final at 70: Hmm a bit of a sink, but manageable if you know when to
> flare. Actually this is a pretty good compromise.
>
> Final at 65 mph: This is the slowest I fly final power off. Considerable
> sink and only one shot to flare. If I screw up, I will plop it on.
>
> You need the sink to be minimal at the time of touchdown, what the sink
rate
> is before the flare is irrelevant. If you have the skill to fly final,
> power off at 55 and can nail the flare every time so you touch down
gently,
> then that is how your final approach should be done in an engine out
> emergency. If you don't have that skill level you should fly it faster.
>
> If you practice this way, an engine out landing should be no different
from
> any other landing, other than increased glide performance because you
don't
> have a windmilling prop.
>
> Another thing to remember is that an emergency landing will most likely be
> onto a soft surface. Studies have shown (and I can't back it up but I
> remember reading it, and it makes intuitive sense) That if the gear
> collapses, the cowl will essentially crush leaving the sharp edge of the
> firewall to plough into the ground and cause a very rapid (unsurvivable??)
> deceleration. This also plays into the idea of minimal sink (that's what
> the flare is for) and minimal speed.
>
> Finally, remember that our aircraft have inertia. A sink takes time to
> develop. The trick is to get the sink to ZERO, just a bit above the
ground.
> Then to gradually keep increasing the angle of attack (come back on the
> stick) until the plane just can't fly anymore. Then, even if you are
only
> going 55 and the sink develops quickly, it will be a gentle landing.
>
> By the way, that is what Vans does when he achieves his amazingly short
> landing distances. I don't have the skills he does so I can't land as
> short.
>
> My instructor used to tell me when I started my flare that I DON'T WANT
YOU
> TO LET THE PLANE LAND. Thus, as I began my flare a few feet AGL, I would
> continue to come back on the yolk until the plane wouldn't fly anymore.
> This mindset fooled a student pilot into getting pretty good at landing a
> 152.
>
> Strange how so much of what is written comes down to Practice, Practice,
> Practice. I have seen more RVs than I can count flown well by good
pilots,
> then landed horribly at 90 mph. Oh sure, they were straight, no drift, on
> the centerline, but they were going much faster than they needed to.
> Remember that Kinetic energy is a square function of speed. That means
that
> if you are going 80 mph, you have 50% more kinetic energy than you have at
> 65. Thats half again as much kinetic energy the airframe has to absorb if
> you hit anything vertical. (80/65 = 1.23 squared = 1.51)
>
> Increase the odds of surviving an engine out. Practice landing slowly,
with
> the power off, with minimal sink EVERY DAY by making this your standard
way
> of landing. (I'm not saying pull power to landing on downwind, fly a
normal
> approach, but your short final should be power off.) They may not always
be
> pretty. (Tailwheel touches first as the plane starts to sink, decreasing
> the angle of attack and the plane "plops" onto the ground) But they are
> easy on the airframe, safe and a lot of fun to (try to) perfect.
>
> Sorry for the peachiness.
>
> Don Mei (physics geek)
> RV-4 N92CT
> 3B9 Chester, CT
>
>
> Americans used to roar like lions for liberty: Now they bleat like sheep
for
> security
>
> Norman Vincent Peale
>
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rigging ailerons/flaps with wings in the cradle |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
> Does anybody see any potentials snags with mounting and rigging the ailerons
> and flaps while the wings are in the cradle (leading edge down)? The
> instructions say to put the wings topside down onto a bench and rig the
> controls that way. I'm curious if anybody sees any snags in going through
> this process with the wings vertical.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (wings 99%)
> http://www.rvproject.com
===============================
Dan, I certainly hope there is no problem with rigging the control
surfaces with the wing panels in a vertical position! :-)
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/wing_lg4.html
Granted, I did this with the trailing edge down, but I see no reason why
it wouldn't work leading edge down (though is seems to me that it would
be easier with the control surfaces "hanging" rather than "pointing
up").
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 418 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Determining Vx Vy |
Is there a method to determining the Vx and Vy of an airplane, other
than what is published?
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 engine monitor |
----Original Message Follows----
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002 engine monitor
Date: Fri, 30 Aug 2002 19:02:03 -0400
I noted a new link on Van's page to an ACS 2002 engine monitor, a new
unit that I had not heard of before.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?&browse=ei&product=acs-2002
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
Kevin:
It was powered up and on display at the Homecoming. It looks first class in
person and the web photos do not do it justice.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Empennage jig |
I just recieved my RV-7 empennage kit. I been reading other builders web
sites and some are following the book and saying that no jig is required?
Let me know what you find out. I still setting up my shop so I hope to be
starting in the next week or so.
Karie
----- Original Message -----
From: <david(at)hom.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Empennage jig
>
> I have purchased the RV-7 preview plans and as I have looked over them I
> have found myself a bit confused about the jig (it's bad to be confused
> before you order the kit :) ). On page 7-1 of the preview plans under the
> "Getting Ready" section it says to modify the vertical stabilizer jig into
> a wing assembly stand by adding arms and supports. I have looked through
> the empennage section several times and have yet to see where it tells to
> build this vertical stabilizer jig? Can someone please tell me the page
> number that tells when and how to build this jig?
>
> Thanks,
>
> -David Taylor
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
Can anyone tell me how much travel is required to get the flaps to 40
degrees? I'm building up the electric flap stuff and need to know the
amount of up and down motion needed at the aft end of the flap weldment.
Thanks,
Russ
HRII, Maui
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kitz" <JKITZ1(at)columbus.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
>
> If you have a tail dragger, in almost all instances if you are really
> landing right, you will touch down tail wheel first.
I agree with a lot you said, but with an RV taildragger, you land on the
back of the mains, but not necessarily tailwheel first.
Trim up during downwind like always, AND DO NOT CHANGE IT. Touch down on
the back of the mains, release the backpressure and the plane will make a
great wheel landing.
Works well for everyone I know that has learned to do it. The tailwheel
only touches first when you are heavy aft.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Tip-up Canopy Re-shaping |
In fitting the tip canopy to my -6A, after multiple trimming the front
edge lays quite nicely on the front canopy skin and more-or-less fits
well with the exception of where it curves around to the Wd-625 on the
right side. The left side fits nicely flush with only slight pressure,
while the right requires a fair amount of "forcing" to get it to lay
down- there is about a one inch gap between the plexi and the front of
the -625 with it just laying there. I have tried shifting it side to
side and even skewing it some without improvement, so obviously the
plastic shifted a little as it cooled or wasn't fully pressed into the
mold, whatever, I'd like to get a better fit before drilling holes.
Has anyone corrected this kind of mis-fit by carefully heating the
plastic to get a better profile? According to several sources, it
appears the required temp is from 325-375 degrees F., and I think it
would best be done clamped to the frame, which is still clamped to the
fuse. (After an hour or so searching archives, I learned to not drill
the front holes on the sides and about the poor soul who made a huge
"dimple" in the top of his canopy by using a gas heater! I'll stick to
a ceramic or heat gun or whatever!)
Appreciate all wisdom & advice-
From the PossumWorks in TN
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Tail wheel instructor |
Art;
Where are you located and who is your insurance
company? I might be able to help.
Rob Ray
--- art stavro wrote:
> --> RV4-List message posted by: art stavro
>
>
> Maby I should clarify, I am looking to fly off
> mandatory hours for my insurance
> to kick in. They demanded an RV4 pilot, CFI with 250
> hrs tail wheel time 1000
> hours TT. I believe I have talked them into a CFI
> with lots of tail wheel time.
> I have already had tail wheel instruction and check
> out and am currently
> commuting with the airplane but thought it would be
> nice to have some insurance
> seeing as how I have paid for it already. Thanks
> again, Art
>
> James Lawliss wrote:
>
> > --> RV4-List message posted by: "James Lawliss"
>
> >
> > Not trying to be negative about this, Art, but
> maybe you should list your TD
> > experience for those instructors?
> > Particularly since you say you "...are not looking
> for instruction..."
> > Just a thought.
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "art stavro" <art79(at)pacbell.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV4-List: Tail wheel instructor
> >
> > > --> RV4-List message posted by: art stavro
>
> > >
> > > Hi guys..I am looking for a tail wheel
> instructor with lots and lots of
> > > hours preferably but not necesarily with RV
> time..Said instructor must
> > > weigh 180 lbs or less..Must live somewhere
> realatively close to the bay
> > > area and must have 6.5 hours of free time some
> weekend to go fly around
> > > with me in my 150 HP RV4. I am not looking for
> instruction, just
> > > someone to give my hard earned money to so I can
> satisfy my insurance
> > > requirements.You can contact me off line at 510
> 278 0260 or my cell 510
> > > 541 4979..Thanks, Art
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions of
> any other form
>
> latest messages.
> other List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/search
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | rigging ailerons/flaps with wings in the cradle |
One concern is installation of the wing tips. There is a small amount of
"adjustment latitude' or 'fudge factor' when fitting the tips. When the
tips are screwed on, there is some movement that will allow alignment
with the aileron....so both tip end and airelon ends are aligned. I
would wait untill your wings are installed, aligned and ready until you
mount the tips. This way you can ensure proper allignment of the tips
with the airelons. I waited until everything was in the hanger to mount
airelons, flaps and tips. I don't think there is any up or down side
either way here here.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | RV-List Landings, landing technique , approaches |
(Reposted with new title for future archive searching)
landing speed approach speeds landing speeds landing technique
landings
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: How to fly the wing
Dick,
There is chart showing survivability Vs angle of impact and speed
posted
somewhere (can't remember where). The bottom line appears to be that
gaining a lower landing speed and buying a higher vertical rate of
descent
does not buy you much (if anything). The charts show that hitting the
ground at a shallower angle does more for you than any other parameter
in
surviving the crash. The biggest thing is the de-acceleration -can your
body stand it and can the airframe keep from collapsing into the
cockpit. .
Hitting it in a 90 deg nose down attitude at 50 mph looks to be much,
much
worst that hitting at a 10 deg angle doing 80 mph. Obviously there is a
trade off as hitting a field at 150mph at a 10 deg angle is not the way
to
go either.
My recent 12 mile engine-out glide indicates that knowing your best
glide
speed (mine was 87mph IAS) helps with a minimum rate of descent (mine
was
750fpm with the prop stopped). I came over the fence with around 100
mph
but fortunately had a 4000ft runway to put her down on (did not need
anywhere near all of that - but it was nice to have). I would be very
leery
of flirting with marginal airspeed as I think it will greatly increase
your
rate of descent and also pose the risk you mention to flying too close
to
the edge of the stall. At too slow an airspeed, even if you do not
stall,
the rate of sink can get pretty high and without the energy to flare and
break you descent - the end result may be worst than need be. Just my
0.02
worth.
Ed Anderson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Empennage jig |
Karie, you do not need the "traditional" jig for the pre-punched emp
kits. Here is a link to photos from our last Tennessee Valley RV
Builders Group meeting that was hosted by an RV-9A builder. You will see
that the horiz stab was built on a benchtop with just the V-blocks.
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/#news
Have fun with your new project!!
Sam Buchanan
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
"TVRVBG" http://www.tvrvbg.org
====================
Karie Daniel wrote:
>
>
> I just recieved my RV-7 empennage kit. I been reading other builders web
> sites and some are following the book and saying that no jig is required?
>
> Let me know what you find out. I still setting up my shop so I hope to be
> starting in the next week or so.
>
> Karie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip-up Canopy Re-shaping |
Sounds like and "experimental" situation. Experiment at your own risk!
These canopies can be pretty finiky when it comes to doing anything to them.
Inquiring minds would like to know if it works, though. Perhaps you could
find a bad canopy somewhere and try it before you mess with that $1000 piece
of plastic. Maybe Todd from Todd's canopies could give you some advice.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: RV-List: Tip-up Canopy Re-shaping
>
> In fitting the tip canopy to my -6A, after multiple trimming the front
> edge lays quite nicely on the front canopy skin and more-or-less fits
> well with the exception of where it curves around to the Wd-625 on the
> right side. The left side fits nicely flush with only slight pressure,
> while the right requires a fair amount of "forcing" to get it to lay
> down- there is about a one inch gap between the plexi and the front of
> the -625 with it just laying there. I have tried shifting it side to
> side and even skewing it some without improvement, so obviously the
> plastic shifted a little as it cooled or wasn't fully pressed into the
> mold, whatever, I'd like to get a better fit before drilling holes.
>
> Has anyone corrected this kind of mis-fit by carefully heating the
> plastic to get a better profile? According to several sources, it
> appears the required temp is from 325-375 degrees F., and I think it
> would best be done clamped to the frame, which is still clamped to the
> fuse. (After an hour or so searching archives, I learned to not drill
> the front holes on the sides and about the poor soul who made a huge
> "dimple" in the top of his canopy by using a gas heater! I'll stick to
> a ceramic or heat gun or whatever!)
>
> Appreciate all wisdom & advice-
> >From the PossumWorks in TN
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS 2002 engine monitor |
I want to put in a good word for the ACS2002. One thing you can hardly
believe until you see it is just how "sunlight readable" the screen really
is. Rob used a screen that is on the leading edge of such technology, and
I've never seen a color flat panel screen that looks as good as this one, in
full sunlight down to darkness. And great angle viewing as well -- even at
the most extreme angle you'd ever get from it in a cockpit, it doesn't
change colors and is still quite readable. It's a reflective screen so when
there's sun shining on it it gets brighter. I sat in his plane and flew with
it on a sunny evening with the sun low to the horizon, both shining in my
face and also straight at the screen from behind and in all cases it was as
readable as the conventional instruments next to it, and possibly even
moreso. Very impressive. Hopefully this display technology will soon make it
into some of the other offerings out there.
Other than that, the photos of the unit speak for it better than I can. One
look and you can see that this engine monitor is more intuitive and displays
the information more clearly than anything else out there (at least the ones
that are shipping!)
But will it take off, and can he deliver? I'm sure everyone is wondering
that in light of some of the recent reports of other products that seem to
be a lot of smoke and mirrors. I can't say for sure but I do know he put in
a lot of time and effort getting it working (years) before ever trying to
market it. This last year he's been pushing to bring it to market but not
taking deposits in advance, and he only started accepting orders when
production was immanent. He has parts for a number of units now and his
regular business Advanced Control Systems has been around for years, doing
robotic systems for the manufacturing industry. And he's pretty committed to
making this thing a go (has put a lot of his own money into it). So I think
its safe to say that if anything can make it, this can.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
Disclaimer: yeah, he used to be my hangar mate.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net |
| Subject: | Emergency Chutes for Sale |
Listers,
I have two Para-phernalia emerg parachutes for sale, include carrying cases.
Hunter green with sheep-skin backs. Two years old. Always kept indoor at
home. Paid $1350 ea. Yours for $1000 ea plus shipping. Will repack by
certified rigger before shipping.
v/r,
Anh
Maryland
---
[This E-mail was scanned for viruses at mail.ameritel.net]
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Digitrak now offers GPS NAV MODE |
GPS NAV MODE ADDED TO DIGITRAK
In addition to flying drift-free selected direction without having to
program the GPS, a GPS NAV MODE has been added. This mode is superior to
systems which track the CDI. It can fly to, intercept, and track a
programmed route from any position. Once on course, heading does not
fluctuate as is generally the case with conventional NAV couplers. In
fact, this new digitally computed NAV MODE approaches the capability of
GPS steering. GPS steering is a series of bank commands sent to an
autopilot by a GPS, which computes the path to be followed.
For those who purchased the initial version of the DIGITRAK, the new NAV
MODE can be added for $150.00 after October 1.
TruTrak Flight Systems
1500 S. Old Missouri Rd.
Springdale, AR 72764
(479)751-0250
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: X-Air/Microair/Xcom 760 |
What I heard was this...
Some of the guys at Microair "left the company" for one reason or another.
It may have something to do with Jabiru buying Microair... Anyway, these
guys went to X-Air, and guess what, now X-Air has a new radio... Go
figure... This is all hearsay and conjecture on my part, form your own
opinions...
I have the Microair 760 Comm and Xpndr and love them!
-Bill
www.vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digitrak now offers GPS NAV MODE |
DigiFlight models too?
-Larry
--- TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
>
>
> GPS NAV MODE ADDED TO DIGITRAK
>
>
> In addition to flying drift-free selected direction without having to
> program the GPS, a GPS NAV MODE has been added. This mode is superior to
> systems which track the CDI. It can fly to, intercept, and track a
> programmed route from any position. Once on course, heading does not
> fluctuate as is generally the case with conventional NAV couplers. In
> fact, this new digitally computed NAV MODE approaches the capability of
> GPS steering. GPS steering is a series of bank commands sent to an
> autopilot by a GPS, which computes the path to be followed.
>
> For those who purchased the initial version of the DIGITRAK, the new NAV
> MODE can be added for $150.00 after October 1.
>
> TruTrak Flight Systems
> 1500 S. Old Missouri Rd.
> Springdale, AR 72764
> (479)751-0250
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digitrak now offers GPS NAV MODE |
Hi Andrew,
We spoke the other day about this latest improvement and your upgrade to
reduce the slight drift off course.
Does this upgrade take care of both issues?
Do I understand that it's available after 10-1-02
Still the immediate turn-around time ?
Love it more each time I fly it.
Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
Ok, I'm trying to figure out a fuel line routing that works for my FWF installation.
In going from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb, I need to insert the
a flowscan transducer. So far my best routing swings from the engine driven pump,
through a fairly tight (at minimum bend radius) 180+ (more like 195deg) into
the flowscan mounted to the firewall. Then out of the flowscan with a nice
sweeping 90 and into the carb with a 90 elbow on the input. That part works fine.
The only way that I can make it all work is to use a 90 on the fuel pump, then
attach a 45 female/male to enter the aeroquip. Seems strange to turn 90, then
turn back 45, but if I drop the 90, then I don't have a fuel pressure tap. Also
I'm concerned about the long term effects of the tight 195deg turn with the
hose.
What have others done in this area?
Vans new FWF kit was going great, right up to the point that there was no provision
for the flowscan...
- Andy Karmy
RV9A - Seattle WA
FWF & Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | RV-List RV Flight Training in South Central NJ 9/10,11,12 |
There are a few training / familiarization slots available with Mike
Seager (Vans factory flight instructor) next week in NJ. Sept. 10,11 &
12. Mike will leave the NY owego RV air event and we will host him on
the three days for training flights. E-mail or phone me for slots. Phil
Condon 609.654.9587 Best time to reach me is after 9:30 ish in the
leave your name, e-mail and phone number and your preference for a slot
in the AM or a slot in the PM. Mike traditionally has 4 slots in the AM
and 4 slots in the PM. Cost- 85 dollars (wet) (Plane, gas, Mike(CFI))
and log book entry). Normal rules apply, see Vans site for training and
Mikes requirements.........
Mike will fly from the Burlington County Airport, AKA South NJ Regional
(small time airport with a big time name...no tower, just tumble weeds)
Located about 28 miles due east of Philadelphia. Hotels available at the
Flying-W-Airport, along with food service. Flying-W is about 3 miles
from Burlington County Airport (there in each others pattern...)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "TruTrak Flight Systems" <info(at)trutrakflightsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Digitrak now offers GPS NAV MODE |
At this point in time the Digitrak is the only product with this feature.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Digitrak now offers GPS NAV MODE
>
> DigiFlight models too?
>
> -Larry
>
>
> --- TruTrak Flight Systems wrote:
> >
> >
> > GPS NAV MODE ADDED TO DIGITRAK
> >
> >
> > In addition to flying drift-free selected direction without having to
> > program the GPS, a GPS NAV MODE has been added. This mode is superior to
> > systems which track the CDI. It can fly to, intercept, and track a
> > programmed route from any position. Once on course, heading does not
> > fluctuate as is generally the case with conventional NAV couplers. In
> > fact, this new digitally computed NAV MODE approaches the capability of
> > GPS steering. GPS steering is a series of bank commands sent to an
> > autopilot by a GPS, which computes the path to be followed.
> >
> > For those who purchased the initial version of the DIGITRAK, the new NAV
> > MODE can be added for $150.00 after October 1.
> >
> > TruTrak Flight Systems
> > 1500 S. Old Missouri Rd.
> > Springdale, AR 72764
> > (479)751-0250
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> http://finance.yahoo.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
Andy,
I have pretty much the same arrangement. I ended up using two adel clamps
to hold the flowscan to the bottom of the engine mount. The hose from the
mechanical fuel pump goes over the top and outboard of the flowscan then
doubles back, this to allow the output hose from the flowscan to double back
to the 90 degree fitting on the carb from about the middle of the firewall
to keep the hoses away from the exhaust. My biggest issue was with the
exhaust and second with the fact that the flowscan needs to be as low as
possible. I put a 45 degree fitting on the output of the mechanical pump.
The good news is that it seems to be working just fine with about 30 hours
on it. Check to see if your carb has a 1/8 inch pipe fitting for the fuel
pressure hose, if you have one it should be just inboard of the fuel inlet
fitting on top.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, N44PH, 30 hrs
O-360, Hartzell C/S
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com>
Subject: RV-List: Aeroquip bends
>
> Ok, I'm trying to figure out a fuel line routing that works for my FWF
installation. In going from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb, I need to
insert the a flowscan transducer. So far my best routing swings from the
engine driven pump, through a fairly tight (at minimum bend radius) 180+
(more like 195deg) into the flowscan mounted to the firewall. Then out of
the flowscan with a nice sweeping 90 and into the carb with a 90 elbow on
the input. That part works fine.
>
> The only way that I can make it all work is to use a 90 on the fuel pump,
then attach a 45 female/male to enter the aeroquip. Seems strange to turn
90, then turn back 45, but if I drop the 90, then I don't have a fuel
pressure tap. Also I'm concerned about the long term effects of the tight
195deg turn with the hose.
>
> What have others done in this area?
>
> Vans new FWF kit was going great, right up to the point that there was no
provision for the flowscan...
>
> - Andy Karmy
> RV9A - Seattle WA
> FWF & Wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
My suggestion is to put the flowscan on the firewall BEFORE the line goes to
the mechanical pump.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: RV-List: Aeroquip bends
Ok, I'm trying to figure out a fuel line routing that works for my FWF
installation. In going from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb, I need to
insert the a flowscan transducer. So far my best routing swings from the
engine driven pump, through a fairly tight (at minimum bend radius) 180+
(more like 195deg) into the flowscan mounted to the firewall. Then out of
the flowscan with a nice sweeping 90 and into the carb with a 90 elbow on
the input. That part works fine.
The only way that I can make it all work is to use a 90 on the fuel pump,
then attach a 45 female/male to enter the aeroquip. Seems strange to turn
90, then turn back 45, but if I drop the 90, then I don't have a fuel
pressure tap. Also I'm concerned about the long term effects of the tight
195deg turn with the hose.
What have others done in this area?
Vans new FWF kit was going great, right up to the point that there was no
provision for the flowscan...
- Andy Karmy
RV9A - Seattle WA
FWF & Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Determining Vx Vy |
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Paul:
Look in the Sport Aviation March thru July of 2002. The guy has a real
good article on the saw tooth test.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
writes:
>
>
> Is there a method to determining the Vx and Vy of an airplane,
> other
> than what is published?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Don Jordan <dons6a(at)juno.com> |
Russ:
I set my flaps so the up stops match the wing & the rod end is at it end
travel. I think you will be close to 40 degrees.
Don Jordan - N6DJ - RV6A
Arlington, Tx
*******************************
>
> Can anyone tell me how much travel is required to get the flaps to
> 40
> degrees? I'm building up the electric flap stuff and need to know
> the
> amount of up and down motion needed at the aft end of the flap
> weldment.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Russ
> HRII, Maui
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
Ditto,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 250.2 hrs
> My suggestion is to put the flowscan on the firewall BEFORE the line goes
to
> the mechanical pump.
>
> jim
> Tampa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Aeroquip bends
>
>
> Ok, I'm trying to figure out a fuel line routing that works for my FWF
> installation. In going from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb, I need
to
> insert the a flowscan transducer. So far my best routing swings from the
> engine driven pump, through a fairly tight (at minimum bend radius) 180+
> (more like 195deg) into the flowscan mounted to the firewall. Then out of
> the flowscan with a nice sweeping 90 and into the carb with a 90 elbow on
> the input. That part works fine.
>
> The only way that I can make it all work is to use a 90 on the fuel pump,
> then attach a 45 female/male to enter the aeroquip. Seems strange to turn
> 90, then turn back 45, but if I drop the 90, then I don't have a fuel
> pressure tap. Also I'm concerned about the long term effects of the tight
> 195deg turn with the hose.
>
> What have others done in this area?
>
> Vans new FWF kit was going great, right up to the point that there was no
> provision for the flowscan...
>
> - Andy Karmy
> RV9A - Seattle WA
> FWF & Wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
HI Andy,
The flowscan is a pain to locate a good place. In order to get accurate
readings for fuel flow, they recommend a minimum of 6" of straight line
before the "in" side of the transducer. Since I couldn't make it work on my
firewall, I installed it on the cockpit side of the fuel line, between my
fuel selector and the firewall bulkhead fitting. This ensured a nice long
run of straight fuel line, and hopefully no big errors in my fuel flow.
Don't know if this helps you much, but it's what I ended up going. FYI, I
have an IO-360 with inverted oil on it which used up a large portion of
usable firewall space, so I didn't have any room on the firewall to install
anything related to the fuel system. My pump/filter is directly underneath
the tank selector valve.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch.
RV6, Minneapolis.
Prepping for Inspection!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
Subject: RV-List: Aeroquip bends
Ok, I'm trying to figure out a fuel line routing that works for my FWF
installation. In going from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb, I need to
insert the a flowscan transducer. So far my best routing swings from the
engine driven pump, through a fairly tight (at minimum bend radius) 180+
(more like 195deg) into the flowscan mounted to the firewall. Then out of
the flowscan with a nice sweeping 90 and into the carb with a 90 elbow on
the input. That part works fine.
The only way that I can make it all work is to use a 90 on the fuel pump,
then attach a 45 female/male to enter the aeroquip. Seems strange to turn
90, then turn back 45, but if I drop the 90, then I don't have a fuel
pressure tap. Also I'm concerned about the long term effects of the tight
195deg turn with the hose.
What have others done in this area?
Vans new FWF kit was going great, right up to the point that there was no
provision for the flowscan...
- Andy Karmy
RV9A - Seattle WA
FWF & Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
The up is easy to set with the length of the flap links. Down is where the
motor drives it. Depending on where I locate one hole on my electric flap
mechanism I can get varying amounts of travel at the flap link (which will
determine the degrees of full flaps). I'm just trying to know the travel
distance to get 40 degrees.
Russ
>
> I set my flaps so the up stops match the wing & the rod end is at it end
> travel. I think you will be close to 40 degrees.
>
> >
> > Can anyone tell me how much travel is required to get the flaps to
> > 40
> > degrees? I'm building up the electric flap stuff and need to know
> > the
> > amount of up and down motion needed at the aft end of the flap
> > weldment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Busick" <panamared1(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: time to speak up... a rant |
> The reason for this rant? I'm just really p-ssed over an accident that
> happened this weekend. How many of us during our hangar flying make
comments
> about fellow pilots like, "he's gonna kill himself someday", or "it's too
> bad that when he kills himself, he's gonna take a friend". Well, it
happened
> to our flying community this weekend.
When we were created, we were given the greatest gift of life, free choice.
We all have the ability to choose right or wrong, and even God himself can
not change that.
I can not beleive that this pilot did not know the consequences of his
actions.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com> |
I've looked in the search engine but can't quite find the answer to this
question. For those RV6 or RV9 guys flying in, to, or from desert
areas, are the vents supplied by Van's ample? A friend of mine has
suggested that I cut an additonal hole/access down near the footwell and
attach a open/close door similar to what Piper Cherokees have. He
thinks this would increase cabin cooling to an acceptable level in warm
climes. Is there a need to go to this extra work?
Chuck Weyant
RV9A Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>
>I've looked in the search engine but can't quite find the answer to this
>question. For those RV6 or RV9 guys flying in, to, or from desert
>areas, are the vents supplied by Van's ample? A friend of mine has
>suggested that I cut an additonal hole/access down near the footwell and
>attach a open/close door similar to what Piper Cherokees have. He
>thinks this would increase cabin cooling to an acceptable level in warm
>climes. Is there a need to go to this extra work?
>Chuck Weyant
>RV9A Finish Kit
>
Chuck,
I live in pretty hot country, 104 F last week. I find the regular big
plastic vents from Vans make a windstorm. I get a little warm sometimes,
especially during a descent, but those vents move a bunch of air. You
have to make sure they aren't pointed right at your face or the VOX will
be triggered all the time.
A big difference in an RV and a Cherokee is the ability to easily climb
to a high and cool altitude.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Don Mei wrote:
>There has been a lot of theorizing going on
and
> There is a real way to test all this stuff that you all have been
>discussing. DO IT.
>No offense intended, but so often I hear people espousing theories when all
>they have to do is go out and fly it.
We are best advised to take a position somewhere between endless thinking
and impetuous action.
At Oshkosh (Airventure to you marketer victims) this year, I attended an
interesting talk by Martin Hollman of Monterey California. He was
discussing a computer system for flutter testing. He voiced a strong
objection to those who want to jump in the plane and do the flutter testing
in the air. Several reasons. First, it allows for testing even before the
aircraft is built. Second, it saves pilots and airplanes.
Test flights are made for testing, of course. What the finished aircraft
is expected to do should be proven during flight testing. Maybe they
should be called 'proof flights'. Think, study, theorize until you are
quite sure that the result of DO IT won't be the destruction of the rest of
your day.
I wonder what happens if I dive to Vne then jerk the stick back? DON'T TRY
THIS AT ALL!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK Temporarily grounded while prop goes racing at Reno.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net> |
Stein, I did the same thing. But I can't decide on fuel filters between
tanks and fuel selector. What did you use, if any?
Ron Calhoun
RV-4 Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Taylor" <david(at)hom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Empennage jig |
Thanks to all for the replies about the jig. I hope to order the tail in the
next 3 months or so.
-David Taylor
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Empennage jig
>
> Karie, you do not need the "traditional" jig for the pre-punched emp
> kits. Here is a link to photos from our last Tennessee Valley RV
> Builders Group meeting that was hosted by an RV-9A builder. You will see
> that the horiz stab was built on a benchtop with just the V-blocks.
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/#news
>
> Have fun with your new project!!
>
> Sam Buchanan
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
> "TVRVBG" http://www.tvrvbg.org
>
>
> ====================
>
>
> Karie Daniel wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just recieved my RV-7 empennage kit. I been reading other builders web
> > sites and some are following the book and saying that no jig is
required?
> >
> > Let me know what you find out. I still setting up my shop so I hope to
be
> > starting in the next week or so.
> >
> > Karie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Incompetence and decision making |
Regarding attempts to save your fellow airman, who appears to unable to
realize the danger of a situation nor inclined to accept well-intended
advice. There was a recent study of incompetence in individuals. This use
of Incompetence was not in the derogatory sense of being a "dummy" but was
looked at from a skill viewpoint. I was still somewhat surprised to learn
that incompetence (in the sense of the study) is not directly correlated to
individual intelligence (or lack thereof). The results of the study
indicated that the most significant factor in an individual incompetence is
the inability to objectively and accurately assess a situation and
including in particular their own ability to deal with a situation. These
individuals will almost always overestimate their scores on a test or
ability to achieve a goal. So - if not a lack of intelligence, then what
was it?
The study found that factor that was most crucial in objectively (and
accurately) assessing a situation was a logical thought pattern. If "A"
then "B" or "C" and if "C" then Results "E",etc. . The study went on to
indicate that when many of these individuals were given training in
"Logical" objective decision making that their ability to accurately assess
a situation (and their ability to cope with it) improved.
So don't know if the study has any bearing on the ongoing discussion, but
the headline of the study ( it was published in a local paper) was ...If
your incompetent, then its unlikely that you will recognize it as that
recognition requires competencel.. of something to that effect was rather
interesting.. It may be that the attempt to (as many have tried) to aid a
fellow airman is doomed to failure if he fits the category of the study -
but, there are many others who do not fall in that category and your word or
warning/advise may be just the thing the person needs. You can give it your
best shot and hopefully it will be heeded.
FWIW.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | X-Air/Microair/Xcom 760 |
Hey Bill,
How are those little gizmos to handle in flight? I have both too and was
wondering how easy or difficult they are to operate while airborne?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Manager
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8wv(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: X-Air/Microair/Xcom 760
What I heard was this...
Some of the guys at Microair "left the company" for one reason or another.
It may have something to do with Jabiru buying Microair... Anyway, these
guys went to X-Air, and guess what, now X-Air has a new radio... Go
figure... This is all hearsay and conjecture on my part, form your own
opinions...
I have the Microair 760 Comm and Xpndr and love them!
-Bill
www.vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Incompetence and decision making |
I have long been of the opinion that incompetence is not really the problem
in aviation, but rather attitude. The incompetent are weeded out early,
either during training, or when they manage to pass a check ride, and are
then faced with the daunting task of striking out on their own, and they
don't pursue the sport.
I think Van wrote an excellent article in the RVator a couple of years ago
about helping to create an atmosphere, a group mind (zeitgeist), at the
airport about safety, and good airmanship. It involves reinforcing sensible
behavior, not stupid risk taking. Set the example, yourself, for others to
follow. Do a proper pre-flight check, every time. Don't fly with known
problems, even if it is inconvenient. Don't push the weather in peacetime.
Don't participate in the hot-dog flying (I am not saying don't have fun,
they are two different things).
If nothing else, you will live to regret the foolish acts of others.
John, RV8, almost
Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Subject: RV-List: Incompetence and decision making
Regarding attempts to save your fellow airman, who appears to unable to
realize the danger of a situation nor inclined to accept well-intended
advice. There was a recent study of incompetence in individuals. This use
of Incompetence was not in the derogatory sense of being a "dummy" but was
looked at from a skill viewpoint. I was still somewhat surprised to learn
that incompetence (in the sense of the study) is not directly correlated to
individual intelligence (or lack thereof). The results of the study
indicated that the most significant factor in an individual incompetence is
the inability to objectively and accurately assess a situation and
including in particular their own ability to deal with a situation. These
individuals will almost always overestimate their scores on a test or
ability to achieve a goal. So - if not a lack of intelligence, then what
was it?
The study found that factor that was most crucial in objectively (and
accurately) assessing a situation was a logical thought pattern. If "A"
then "B" or "C" and if "C" then Results "E",etc. . The study went on to
indicate that when many of these individuals were given training in
"Logical" objective decision making that their ability to accurately assess
a situation (and their ability to cope with it) improved.
So don't know if the study has any bearing on the ongoing discussion, but
the headline of the study ( it was published in a local paper) was ...If
your incompetent, then its unlikely that you will recognize it as that
recognition requires competencel.. of something to that effect was rather
interesting.. It may be that the attempt to (as many have tried) to aid a
fellow airman is doomed to failure if he fits the category of the study -
but, there are many others who do not fall in that category and your word or
warning/advise may be just the thing the person needs. You can give it your
best shot and hopefully it will be heeded.
FWIW.
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
RV-6A N494BW
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Blast Tube Construction |
I have searched the archives, but still don't have a good answer.
What are people using for Blast Tubes for the alternator, magnetos, etc? I
have heard of the conduit from Van's, but how is everyone securing it to the
cowl and how are they securing the end to continuously point in the area
needed? Adel clamps? I don't think it is very hard, just wondering what
others are doing.
What about using soft aluminum tubing? I tried making one tonight from 3/4"
tubing by drilling drill stop holes and cutting slots in the end and bending
them out (to rivet to the baffling), but it did not seem real 'robust' to
stand up to the vibration of the engine. I'd worry about the soft aluminum
cracking and falling off over time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
N223RV Registered
Fiberglass and a few other little things.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | X-Air/Microair/Xcom 760 |
Easy... I don't have any trouble setting freqs or squawk codes.....and I
have never been in a situation I couldn't see the displays... I really like
them...
-Bill
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: X-Air/Microair/Xcom 760
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:19:33 -0700
Hey Bill,
How are those little gizmos to handle in flight? I have both too and was
wondering how easy or difficult they are to operate while airborne?
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Manager
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Bill VonDane [mailto:n8wv(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: X-Air/Microair/Xcom 760
What I heard was this...
Some of the guys at Microair "left the company" for one reason or another.
It may have something to do with Jabiru buying Microair... Anyway, these
guys went to X-Air, and guess what, now X-Air has a new radio... Go
figure... This is all hearsay and conjecture on my part, form your own
opinions...
I have the Microair 760 Comm and Xpndr and love them!
-Bill
www.vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Blast Tube Construction |
Mike,
I used 3/4" scat tubing secured with good old industrial zip ties! I have 4
tubes, alternator, both mags, and fuel pump. Had some small flanges welded
together and drilled a small hole in the baffling. This is the easiest to
replace, and quickest solution for blast tubes. Any rigid type of tube
would be a pain!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch-RV6, Minneapolis
Waiting on the FAA!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N8292W(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Blast Tube Construction
I have searched the archives, but still don't have a good answer.
What are people using for Blast Tubes for the alternator, magnetos, etc? I
have heard of the conduit from Van's, but how is everyone securing it to the
cowl and how are they securing the end to continuously point in the area
needed? Adel clamps? I don't think it is very hard, just wondering what
others are doing.
What about using soft aluminum tubing? I tried making one tonight from 3/4"
tubing by drilling drill stop holes and cutting slots in the end and bending
them out (to rivet to the baffling), but it did not seem real 'robust' to
stand up to the vibration of the engine. I'd worry about the soft aluminum
cracking and falling off over time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
N223RV Registered
Fiberglass and a few other little things.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com> |
| Subject: | need 6 platenuts |
Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
Thanks
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 Empennage jig |
This is great, thanks and good luck on yours.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Empennage jig
>
> Karie, you do not need the "traditional" jig for the pre-punched emp
> kits. Here is a link to photos from our last Tennessee Valley RV
> Builders Group meeting that was hosted by an RV-9A builder. You will see
> that the horiz stab was built on a benchtop with just the V-blocks.
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/tvrvbg/#news
>
> Have fun with your new project!!
>
> Sam Buchanan
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
> "TVRVBG" http://www.tvrvbg.org
>
>
> ====================
>
>
> Karie Daniel wrote:
> >
> >
> > I just recieved my RV-7 empennage kit. I been reading other builders web
> > sites and some are following the book and saying that no jig is
required?
> >
> > Let me know what you find out. I still setting up my shop so I hope to
be
> > starting in the next week or so.
> >
> > Karie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerospace Logic |
Before someone chimes in with a flames for Phil for the oversight of
mentioning that they have a website, but not including their address
(Arrrrgh!), here it is:
http://www.aerospacelogic.com/
-RB4
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote:
>
>I got one of their fuel gages from EBAY. It is really a high class gage. I
>think it could be calibrated accurately to closer than 1/2 gal in tank.
>
>I am personally more in favor of analog instruments, but this little thing
>will serve my fuel gage needs very good. It has a bargraph for each tank plus
>a switchable digital readout for each tank individually.
>
>They list this as fitting a 2" hole. Mine was slightly over 2" and needed
>some enlarging on the 2" hole I had cut for it.
>
>Very simple programming. Bright LED's with a dim function for night time.
>
>They have a real discriptive website. You can also call them. Some times they
>put them on ebay. I got mine for 120. they list for quite a bit more. they
>have many different kinds of gages. Mine is lightweight machined aluminum
>case.
>
>Phil
>
>Harvey Sigmon wrote:
>
>>
>>Listers: I received a letter today from Aerospace Logic a Canadian
>>Instrument company selling instrument to RV people before going to the
>>general public. Some of the instruments were very impressive, do we know
>>anything about this company? Any input appreciated.
>>Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602RV
>>
--
---------
Rob Prior
rv7 "at" b4.ca
-----------------------------
Stop dreaming... Start flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net> |
| Subject: | need 6 platenuts |
Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
> sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
> platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them.
If they are that hard to find, then just buy some double-eared ones and trim
one of the ears off. It'll give your friends and neighbors something to do.
Finish them up with a belt sander. I'm sure this isn't the hardest aspect of
building an RV that you have had to tackle.
Good Luck,
Linc
-------------------------------------------
Introducing NetZero Long Distance
Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
I posted this once before. I have two NASA vents. On a recent trip from N.C.
to Sacramento I disconnected my heat muff. I connected the air intake directly
to the firewall transfer box and voila, I had an additional
supply of adjustable air down by my feet. My scat tubes are 2" dia and I screwed
in an extra length to reach. I'll leave it until Las Cruces and then change
back for the winter. I can always change on the road if needed. Gene W.
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Pardue
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ventilation
>
>
>I've looked in the search engine but can't quite find the answer to this
>question. For those RV6 or RV9 guys flying in, to, or from desert
>areas, are the vents supplied by Van's ample? A friend of mine has
>suggested that I cut an additonal hole/access down near the footwell and
>attach a open/close door similar to what Piper Cherokees have. He
>thinks this would increase cabin cooling to an acceptable level in warm
>climes. Is there a need to go to this extra work?
>Chuck Weyant
>RV9A Finish Kit
>
Chuck,
I live in pretty hot country, 104 F last week. I find the regular big
plastic vents from Vans make a windstorm. I get a little warm sometimes,
especially during a descent, but those vents move a bunch of air. You
have to make sure they aren't pointed right at your face or the VOX will
be triggered all the time.
A big difference in an RV and a Cherokee is the ability to easily climb
to a high and cool altitude.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jose del Peso <JDELPESO(at)teleline.es> |
| Subject: | Performance of the RV-8 with a TAE 125 engine (135 HP) |
I have read some posts about this engine, HP, rpm, torque, etc. but I
havent read anything about
the performance of the RV-8 with this engine and a MT CS propeller.
So, can someone estimate the following performance:
-Cruise speed at 8000 feet (125,110 and 90 HP).
-Rate of climb S.L.( 1400 and 1800 lbs).
-Take-off distance S.L. (1400 and 1800 lbs.)
Thanks
Jose del Peso
RV8 #80981
Madrid (Spain)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Anyone have lodging info for Las Cruces?
Thanks, 273SB in CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sjhdcl(at)kingston.net |
| Subject: | Oshkosh & Arlington pictures |
Barnstormers just posted the pictures of Arlington and Oshkosh that I took this
July.
For those interested see:
http://www.barnstormers.com/EVENTS/events.html
Captions will be added soon.
Steve Hurlbut
Kingston, Ont
RV7A
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>
>
>Anyone have lodging info for Las Cruces?
>Thanks, 273SB in CO.
>
Stewart,
Quite a few of us are staying at the Hampton Inn. Go to Doug's website
(vansaircraft.net) for details. I'll be there, and I believe some of the
SoCal squadron cats will too.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
I put my flowscan between the mechanical pump and the carb. My flow readings are
the same with or without the boost pump on. I understand that when the flowscan
is mounted befor the mechanical pump the flow rate will fluctuate while the
boost pump is on.
Gary Zilik
Quoting Jim Norman :
>
>
> My suggestion is to put the flowscan on the firewall BEFORE the line
> goes to
> the mechanical pump.
>
> jim
> Tampa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Karmy
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Aeroquip bends
>
>
>
> Ok, I'm trying to figure out a fuel line routing that works for my FWF
> installation. In going from the mechanical fuel pump to the carb, I need
> to
> insert the a flowscan transducer. So far my best routing swings from
> the
> engine driven pump, through a fairly tight (at minimum bend radius)
> 180+
> (more like 195deg) into the flowscan mounted to the firewall. Then out
> of
> the flowscan with a nice sweeping 90 and into the carb with a 90 elbow
> on
> the input. That part works fine.
>
> The only way that I can make it all work is to use a 90 on the fuel
> pump,
> then attach a 45 female/male to enter the aeroquip. Seems strange to
> turn
> 90, then turn back 45, but if I drop the 90, then I don't have a fuel
> pressure tap. Also I'm concerned about the long term effects of the
> tight
> 195deg turn with the hose.
>
> What have others done in this area?
>
> Vans new FWF kit was going great, right up to the point that there was
> no
> provision for the flowscan...
>
> - Andy Karmy
> RV9A - Seattle WA
> FWF & Wiring
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blast Tube Construction |
I did the same thing... Simply drill the holes in the baffles JUST large
enough that it holds the blast tube in place, then use some plastic (or
metal) adel clamps on the engine mount to clamp and point them... You can
see some pictures of my installations here:
http://www.vondane.com/engine/engine4.htm
and
http://vondane.com/engine/baffles2.htm
-Bill
www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blast Tube Construction
Mike,
I used 3/4" scat tubing secured with good old industrial zip ties! I have 4
tubes, alternator, both mags, and fuel pump. Had some small flanges welded
together and drilled a small hole in the baffling. This is the easiest to
replace, and quickest solution for blast tubes. Any rigid type of tube
would be a pain!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch-RV6, Minneapolis
Waiting on the FAA!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N8292W(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Blast Tube Construction
I have searched the archives, but still don't have a good answer.
What are people using for Blast Tubes for the alternator, magnetos, etc? I
have heard of the conduit from Van's, but how is everyone securing it to the
cowl and how are they securing the end to continuously point in the area
needed? Adel clamps? I don't think it is very hard, just wondering what
others are doing.
What about using soft aluminum tubing? I tried making one tonight from 3/4"
tubing by drilling drill stop holes and cutting slots in the end and bending
them out (to rivet to the baffling), but it did not seem real 'robust' to
stand up to the vibration of the engine. I'd worry about the soft aluminum
cracking and falling off over time.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
N223RV Registered
Fiberglass and a few other little things.......
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Go to http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/vaf.htm for all the latest info. Top
center under featured items is the LOE info.
Gary Zilik
Quoting RVer273sb(at)aol.com:
>
> Anyone have lodging info for Las Cruces?
> Thanks, 273SB in CO.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerospace Logic |
AEROSPACE Logic CEO/President is traveling to EAA Chapter 486's 8th Annual RV Forum
held on September 7th, there instruments will be on display and they can
explain it all in person to attendee's.
See you there.
Respectfully
David McManmon
President, EAA 486
Chairman, RV Forum 2002
RV6 Builder/Pilot
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
----Original Message Follows----
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:32:20 EDT
Anyone have lodging info for Las Cruces?
Thanks, 273SB in CO.
Van's California Air Force along with Kansas, Colorado, and New Mexico Wings
are staying at:
Hampton Inn. Hampton Inn: 877-525-0500 or 505.526.8311
http://www.adventureaviation.com/hotel.htm
http://www.adventureaviation.com/rv.htm
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/loe/loervfi.htm
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | one legged nutplates need dimple |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP From: "flyseaplane" <flyseaplane(at)netzero.net>
Subject: RV-List: need 6 platenuts
Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
> sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
> platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them.
If they are that hard to find, then just buy some double-eared ones and trim
one of the ears off. SNIP
I have the same problem but a different solution. Just make a shim to fit between
the MS21051-08 non CS, one legged platenut and the airframe. Countersink
the shim for the #8 screw and rivet the whole mess on. Voila!
Vince
F-1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
I just called them and got a room with two beds on the night of the 26th for
$47...
-Bill
www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Las Cruces
----Original Message Follows----
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:32:20 EDT
Anyone have lodging info for Las Cruces?
Thanks, 273SB in CO.
Van's California Air Force along with Kansas, Colorado, and New Mexico Wings
are staying at:
Hampton Inn. Hampton Inn: 877-525-0500 or 505.526.8311
http://www.adventureaviation.com/hotel.htm
http://www.adventureaviation.com/rv.htm
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/loe/loervfi.htm
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Data Plate |
I recently had to change the sump on my engine. The sump I received had no
data plate. I am assuming that when inspection time arrives the FAA
inspector or DAR will require an engine data plate. I have checked Wicks,
Spruce, Vans, etc. and don't see a blank engine data plate listed. Does
anyone know where I can find one?
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine Data Plate |
You don't need the data plate on an experimental...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Engine Data Plate
I recently had to change the sump on my engine. The sump I received had no
data plate. I am assuming that when inspection time arrives the FAA
inspector or DAR will require an engine data plate. I have checked Wicks,
Spruce, Vans, etc. and don't see a blank engine data plate listed. Does
anyone know where I can find one?
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
> I put my flowscan between the mechanical pump and the carb. My flow
readings are
> the same with or without the boost pump on. I understand that when the
flowscan
> is mounted befor the mechanical pump the flow rate will fluctuate while
the
> boost pump is on.
>
> Gary Zilik
How'd ya do that, there's not very much space there for flex hose and all
the fittings necessary. Did you take it out in a large loop?
Inquiringly,
Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blast Tube Construction |
Corrugated plastic tubing of the type used for bilge pump plumbing, and which
looks like split loom wire sheathing, but without the split, works well. I
bought mine from the local hardware store. It's some kind of black plastic.
A slightly undersized hole in the firewall holds one end by grabbing it
between the corrugations, and I secure the far end to the magneto,
alternator, fuel pump, or whatever, by use of nylon zip ties, as someone else
mentioned. Sounds cheezy, but has held up quite well in the engine
compartment for years now, and looks "okay" as far as workmanship and
appearance.
-Bill B
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine Data Plate |
Move the data plate from the original sump, that's the one that matches
the logs. There's some debate as to whether you need to mark the data
plate as Experimental, mark with a "-C" for changed or not at all or
remove it completely - check the archives and do what you think right. I
moved mine and did not mark it but the logs are very clearly labeled. Of
course if you don't have logs or built it from unrelated parts then it
doesn't matter, just use blank SS. If it's a certified engine there is a
special process to get a replacement data plate from Lycoming. I think
you need some proof of its pedigree - not just a simple request.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> -->
>
>
> I recently had to change the sump on my engine. The sump I
> received had no
> data plate. I am assuming that when inspection time arrives the FAA
> inspector or DAR will require an engine data plate. I have
> checked Wicks,
> Spruce, Vans, etc. and don't see a blank engine data plate
> listed. Does
> anyone know where I can find one?
>
> Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blast Tube Construction |
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Corrugated plastic tubing of the type used for bilge pump plumbing, and which
> looks like split loom wire sheathing, but without the split, works well. I
> bought mine from the local hardware store. It's some kind of black plastic.
> A slightly undersized hole in the firewall holds one end by grabbing it
> between the corrugations, and I secure the far end to the magneto,
> alternator, fuel pump, or whatever, by use of nylon zip ties, as someone else
> mentioned. Sounds cheezy, but has held up quite well in the engine
> compartment for years now, and looks "okay" as far as workmanship and
> appearance.
>
> -Bill B
> RV-6A
>
Here is a link to the blast tube for the alternator on my RV-6 (scroll
to the last photo on the page):
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/engine4.html
It is the corrugated tubing supplied in the kit, and a simple bracket
was bent out of scrap aluminum sheet to capture the downwind end of the
tubing. The bracket is attached by the alternator mounting bolt. As has
been mentioned, a hole slightly undersize will securely hold the tubing
in place. These brackets can be easily fabricated for any blast tube
application.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: need 6 platenuts |
I don't know what the K stands for, but Van sells an MS21053-L08 platenut in his
catalog. These are 8x32 one leg dimpled platenuts, standard size. The price is
65 cents each. Is he just out of stock?
Bill Marvel
flyseaplane wrote:
>
> Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
> > sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
> > platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them.
>
> If they are that hard to find, then just buy some double-eared ones and trim
> one of the ears off. It'll give your friends and neighbors something to do.
> Finish them up with a belt sander. I'm sure this isn't the hardest aspect of
> building an RV that you have had to tackle.
> Good Luck,
> Linc
>
> -------------------------------------------
> Introducing NetZero Long Distance
> Unlimited Long Distance only $29.95/ month!
> Sign Up Today! www.netzerolongdistance.com
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Blast Tube Construction |
Go to Home Depot and buy some metal gas can corrugated hose. It comes
with a screw on top. Cut the threads off the top so that all that's left
is the flat circular part that holds the hose. Drill and pop rivet to
the back of your baffling, use an adel clamp at the other end to hold in
place.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Blast Tube Construction |
The angle and direction of short blast tubes can also be controlled by
putting a piece of stiff wire-i.e., music wire-down the inside of the blast
tube and bending it as desired. I put a small diameter loop at the top of
the wire and screw that to the baffle surface and fold the bottom end over
the blast tube to hold it in place.
Albert Gardner
Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Data Plate |
Unfortunately, when I sold my original sump I left the data plate on it.
Vince
>From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Data Plate
>Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:09:27 -0500
>
>
>Move the data plate from the original sump, that's the one that matches
>the logs. There's some debate as to whether you need to mark the data
>plate as Experimental, mark with a "-C" for changed or not at all or
>remove it completely - check the archives and do what you think right. I
>moved mine and did not mark it but the logs are very clearly labeled. Of
>course if you don't have logs or built it from unrelated parts then it
>doesn't matter, just use blank SS. If it's a certified engine there is a
>special process to get a replacement data plate from Lycoming. I think
>you need some proof of its pedigree - not just a simple request.
>
>Regards,
>Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
>RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
>Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
>
> > -->
> >
> >
> > I recently had to change the sump on my engine. The sump I
> > received had no
> > data plate. I am assuming that when inspection time arrives the FAA
> > inspector or DAR will require an engine data plate. I have
> > checked Wicks,
> > Spruce, Vans, etc. and don't see a blank engine data plate
> > listed. Does
> > anyone know where I can find one?
> >
> > Vince
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
I did exactly that. From the fuel pump to the carb is a big loop with the
flowscan mounted horizontal and about 3 inches higher than the pump. I bought
plenty of hose so if I wanted to change the setup I could. It works really well
and I don't have to remember to turn the boost pump off.
BTW, I found that the cheapest place to buy Aeroquip hose is
http://racehose.com
Gary
Quoting Randy Lervold <randy@rv-8.com>:
>
> > I put my flowscan between the mechanical pump and the carb. My flow
> readings are
> > the same with or without the boost pump on. I understand that when
> the
> flowscan
> > is mounted befor the mechanical pump the flow rate will fluctuate
> while
> the
> > boost pump is on.
> >
> > Gary Zilik
>
>
> How'd ya do that, there's not very much space there for flex hose and
> all
> the fittings necessary. Did you take it out in a large loop?
>
> Inquiringly,
> Randy Lervold
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:56:38 -0700
Well, I only have 700 hours in a Champ. It's not a Cub and I didn't learn
to fly it in the 60's so maybe my qualifications don't amount to much. But
there is a local gent who's been flying his cub since he bought it back in
1948. I find it wonderful and amazing that he's still flying. He doesn't
know how many hours he has because he stopped counting after 900. That was
back in the 50's some time. When I asked him about wheel landings I got a
half hour lecture on why there's never a reason to do a wheel landing. His
basic premise was that no matter what, you want to be going as slowly as
possible when you touch down. Whether you're going to make a good landing,
a bad one, hit a tree, a dog, or go into a ditch, you still want to be going
as slowly as possible. You land your airplane the way you want but I'm
following the advice of an "old salt" that's been doing it for years.
By the way, my tailwheel instructor learned to fly in the 60's, in a cub.
He now flies a SuperCub. He's got all kinds of fancy ratings up through
ATP, CFII, etc. He told me the same thing. Like I said, my qualifications
may be suspect but some people I respect have told me these things, and
their qualifications are pretty good.
I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just calling it like I see it.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Manager
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
Scott:
I transitioned into Tailwheel aircraft in 1988. I had a GREAT instructor
that also taught full stall landings. I am not sure when SHE learned to fly
tailwheel but she also has all kinds of fancy ratings up through ATP, CFII,
A&P, etc. She does checkouts in RVs and is one of only two instructors that
I would let fly my airplane solo.
99% of the time I do full stall landings in my -6. Did a wheel landing with
a crosswind after an Overhead Arrival with Paul Rosales at Willows-Glen
(WLW) on the way home from Homecoming. Was having a conversation on
crosswind wheel vs 3 point landings at the Homecoming. This prompted me to
try something different. Kept the tail up too long and started toward the
side of the runway. The aircraft was trying to weathervane into the wind.
Got control back when the tail wheel touched down.
This landing reminded me why I always do 3 point full stall landings or
tailwheel first full stall landings.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Here's one for you motor heads.. |
My RV-4 had been parked outside in the bay area in the sun until 12:30 PM,
temp was around 93 degrees. It was full of gas (topped off) in both tanks.
The engine is a IO-360A1B (fuel injected), on run up everything checked out
just fine. Shortly after my departure I noticed my fuel pressure dropped from
25 psi down to 8 psi. I then turned on the electric fuel pump and switched
tanks, (this brought the pressure back up to 30 psi) and then shut off the
electric fuel pump and it then did the same thing. The engine never faulted
and my fuel pressure returned to the normal operating pressure of 25 psi at
8000 ft altitude. This low fuel pressure made for a very uncomfortable flight
over the water in the San Francisco bay. My fuel pressure was fine after that
for the remainder of the flight. So what's up with this, I am trying to
understand what's going on...reply's welcomed.
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Determining Vx Vy |
If you want a personal Vx/Vy plot for your airplane you need to fly a series
of climbs at diferent airspeeds centered around your presumed Vx/Vy speeds
and plot vertical distance vs. time and vertical distance vs. horizontal
distance. Also, see the "Test Pilot" articles in the last 6-7 months of
Sport Aviation for a whole series on nailing the performance parameters of
YOUR airplane.
Paul Besing wrote:
>
> Is there a method to determining the Vx and Vy of an airplane, other
> than what is published?
>
> Paul Besing
> RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> http://www.kitlog.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | Van's Homecoming |
I haven't heard anything about Van's Homecoming. Was it a non-event?
Did anyone go?
How about a quick write-up on it from someone who was there?
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | alternate canopies |
Howdy listers-
I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to be
able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources. The
recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about other
sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The other
question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks in
advance for any and all insights!
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | high pressure fuel pumps |
Hi listers-
So, my other question relates to electric boost pumps for my IO-360. I've
been trying to track down a smaller / lighter / cheaper system than the AP
units offered by Van's. There are quite a variety avaiable through the
motorsport world, but hitting the proper pressure and flow rate have been
problematic. Any insights? Thanks again for the collective wisdom...
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Interesting discussion on wheel landings. My only tailwheel experience is
in a C-140. I practice both 3 points and wheel landings. In my admittedly
limited experience I've not noted an advantage of one type over the other
in the conditions I've flown in. I do find wheel landings to be much more
challenging than 3 pointers.
Just for another data point, at the glider port I fly at, I've been told
that the owner has a strict policy regarding wheel landings for his tow
pilots. A wheel landing in one of his tow planes is regarded as grounds for
firing. The tow pilot who told me this said that the owner regards wheel
landings as nothing more than showing off. Afternoon winds at this site are
frequently 45 - 90 degrees cross at up to 25 mph.
Mike Wills
RV-4 firewall forward details; Mazda powered
>
>Tailwheel pilots should be able to do both wheel landings and 3-point
>landings,
>depending on conditions. To ignore one of these techniques is just depriving
>yourself of a useful tool. All it takes is a little practice and it makes
>for a
>safer pilot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Armstrong <armstrbc(at)ucsub.colorado.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Here's one for you motor heads.. |
sounds to me like vapor in the line between the electric pump and the
engine. the electric pump is pushing the fuel vapor through the line. my
'68 mercedes unimog does the same thing.
brian armstrong
englewood, co
--
On Wed, 4 Sep 2002 MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> My RV-4 had been parked outside in the bay area in the sun until 12:30 PM,
> temp was around 93 degrees. It was full of gas (topped off) in both tanks.
> The engine is a IO-360A1B (fuel injected), on run up everything checked out
> just fine. Shortly after my departure I noticed my fuel pressure dropped from
> 25 psi down to 8 psi. I then turned on the electric fuel pump and switched
> tanks, (this brought the pressure back up to 30 psi) and then shut off the
> electric fuel pump and it then did the same thing. The engine never faulted
> and my fuel pressure returned to the normal operating pressure of 25 psi at
> 8000 ft altitude. This low fuel pressure made for a very uncomfortable flight
> over the water in the San Francisco bay. My fuel pressure was fine after that
> for the remainder of the flight. So what's up with this, I am trying to
> understand what's going on...reply's welcomed.
>
> Tim Barnes
> Meangreen RV-4
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Here's one for you motor heads.. |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
09/04/2002 01:13:07 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/04/2002 01:13:07 PM
You had vapor lock in your mechanical fuel pump. I had the same thing
happen in my Cherokee, I took off on a hot day (with electric on) and
forgot to turn it off until I had about 300', when I did, the fuel
pressure dropped but came right back with the electric on. I turned
around and landed and had the same effect (low pressure with the electric
off, just fine when on) in the pattern and on the ground. The next day
after it cooled down, everything was fine.
Scott
MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/04/2002 11:17 AM
Please respond to rv-list
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Here's one for you motor heads..
My RV-4 had been parked outside in the bay area in the sun until 12:30 PM,
temp was around 93 degrees. It was full of gas (topped off) in both tanks.
The engine is a IO-360A1B (fuel injected), on run up everything checked
out
just fine. Shortly after my departure I noticed my fuel pressure dropped
from
25 psi down to 8 psi. I then turned on the electric fuel pump and switched
tanks, (this brought the pressure back up to 30 psi) and then shut off the
electric fuel pump and it then did the same thing. The engine never
faulted
and my fuel pressure returned to the normal operating pressure of 25 psi
at
8000 ft altitude. This low fuel pressure made for a very uncomfortable
flight
over the water in the San Francisco bay. My fuel pressure was fine after
that
for the remainder of the flight. So what's up with this, I am trying to
understand what's going on...reply's welcomed.
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
In a 90 degree crosswind (or stiff crosswind at any angle), a wheel
landing with one wing low, and one wheel first, is the only way to land
the aircraft with no lateral "skidding" of the tire. A three-point
landing will, in a crosswind, require some lateral forces on the landing
gear, unless you can *instantly* transition from crabbed or one wing low
to straight down the runway with all three wheels rolling.
Is this necessary on all aircraft? Possibly not. But anything that
minimizes the sideways load on landing gear is a good thing, at least
that's what I was taught.
-RB4
Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> Very true and I am trying to keep an open mind on the subject. I can land
> both ways I just can't see a reason to do a wheel landing over a
> three-point. What situation(s) would you do one over another?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Mike Wills wrote:
> Just for another data point, at the glider port I fly at, I've been told
> that the owner has a strict policy regarding wheel landings for his tow
> pilots. A wheel landing in one of his tow planes is regarded as grounds for
> firing. The tow pilot who told me this said that the owner regards wheel
> landings as nothing more than showing off. Afternoon winds at this site are
> frequently 45 - 90 degrees cross at up to 25 mph.
Sheesh. That's one glider port i'll never volunteer to fly tow at.
With that crosswind, you're asking for trouble trying nothing but three
point landings. How often does someone groundloop one of his towplanes?
-RB4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com> |
| Subject: | alternate canopies |
Look in the Yeller pages for Todd Silver, great product, great service at a
great price.
-----Original Message-----
From: glen j matejcek [mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com]
Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
Howdy listers-
I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to be
able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources. The
recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about other
sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The other
question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks in
advance for any and all insights!
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
Look in the Yeller pages for Todd Silver, great
product, great service at a great price.
-----Original Message-----
From: glen j matejcek [<A
HREF"mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com">mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com]
Sent: September 04, 2002 1:21 PM
To: INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
-- RV-List message posted by: glen j matejcek
aerobubba(at)compuserve.com
Howdy listers-
I've been poking around the archives on two subjects,
and don't seem to be
able to find any clear guidance. Fist is
alternate canopy sources. The
recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to
thinking about other
sources. Does anyone have feedback on the
cost/quality/weight
advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared
to Van's? The other
question will be a seperate post to seperate the
threads. Thanks in
advance for any and all insights!
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
List: http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv-list
http://www.matronics.com/search
Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
http://www.matronics.com/
| From: | "Jim Wittman" <fmico(at)iaxs.net> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Scott,
Im flying a 6A so take my info for what it's worth; I had a Stinson
108-3 for a few years and usually made 3 point landings. On several
occasions, though, I had to make night landings in marginal light or low
visibity situations. Wheel landings worked much better (for me) in
those instances as I had a better look at the runway. I would make a
"rate of descent" approach, much like a seaplane landing, so that the
marginal depth perception wouldn't catch me stalling out before reaching
the ground.
Jim
Mpls
>Very true and I am trying to keep an open mind on the subject. I can
land both ways I just can't see a
>>reason to do a wheel landing over a three-point. What situation(s)
would you do one over another?
--
>Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | alternate canopies |
My own experience from Todd Silver...good product, LOUSY SERVICE, ok
price. BTW, it will cost MORE to buy a "3rd party" canopy than you will
receive credit by excluding it from your finishing kit order. I don't
have the numbers in front of me, but I think the "credit" from vans was
around $325-$375, and the cost of the canopy and shipping from Todd
Silver will be well over $500. Remember that Todd's prices no longer
include shipping, so be prepared to add around $100 to $150 to his
prices.
Todd Wenzel
Delafield, WI USA
RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Hawkins [mailto:lhawkins(at)giant.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
Look in the Yeller pages for Todd Silver, great product, great service
at a great price.
-----Original Message-----
From: glen j matejcek [mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com]
Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
-->
Howdy listers-
I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to
be able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources.
The recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about
other sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The
other question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks
in advance for any and all insights!
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
Look in the Yeller pages for Todd Silver, great product,
great service at a great price.
-----Original Message-----
From: glen j matejcek [<A
HREF"mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com">mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com]
Sent: September 04, 2002 1:21 PM
To: INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
-- RV-List message posted by: glen j matejcek
aerobubba(at)compuserve.com
Howdy listers-
I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and
don't seem to be
able to find any clear
guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources. The
recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to
thinking about other
sources. Does anyone
have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to
Van's? The other
question will be a
seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks in
advance for any and all insights!
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
http://www.matronics.com/subscription
Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
List: http://www.matronics.com/browselist/rv-list
http://www.matronics.com/search
Archives: http://www.matronics.com/archives
http://www.matronics.com/rv-list
Lists: http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
http://www.matronics.com/
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
>In a 90 degree crosswind (or stiff crosswind at any angle), a wheel
>landing with one wing low, and one wheel first, is the only way to land
>the aircraft with no lateral "skidding" of the tire. A three-point
>landing will, in a crosswind, require some lateral forces on the landing
>gear, unless you can *instantly* transition from crabbed or one wing low
>to straight down the runway with all three wheels rolling.
>
>Is this necessary on all aircraft? Possibly not. But anything that
>minimizes the sideways load on landing gear is a good thing, at least
>that's what I was taught.
>
I think what we have here may be "a failure to communicate." I, and I
think most people mean a three point attitude, when we refer to three
point landings. In a crosswind it is really a two point landing,
tailwheel and one main. There are no more side loads than in a wheel
landing, and what loads there are are likely to be less at the lower
speed.
I know nobody cares, but I am in the camp that thinks a wheel landing is
NEVER necessary. People speak about better control at the higher speed,
but no matter what, one has to decelerate through the lower speed of the
three point (attitude) landing. And when you land with the tailwheel on
the ground, it is helping you steer from the beginning. The only reason
I ever do a wheelie is for fun. When it comes to landings, I think slow
is good.
Interesting about the glider operation requiring three point. I know
some glider operations require wheel landings because Pawnees tend to
break tailwheel springs. I've seen it happen myself. As far as I know,
this is not a problem on RVs.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
>Sheesh. That's one glider port i'll never volunteer to fly tow at.
>With that crosswind, you're asking for trouble trying nothing but three
>point landings. How often does someone groundloop one of his towplanes?
>
>-RB4
I've never heard of a groundloop out there. And this is a large operation
with as many as 4 tow planes (Super Cub, Pawnee, and Callair) operating on
weekends. I dont think he's looking for volunteers - he has all the tow
pilots he needs.
Mike Wills
RV-4 firewall forward details; Mazda powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Interesting. I was taught that even in a stiff 90 deg crosswind I should
still to a three-point landing. The thought being that you're much less
likely to be picked up by a gust if the wing is stalled.
I have successfully completed a 3 point landing in a 35mph direct crosswind
in my Champ (a well-known flying weathervane.) I ran out of rudder so I
landed downwind of the centerline and angled upwind of it on rollout.
Frightening but I kept the shiney side up.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Manager
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Rob Prior [mailto:rv7(at)b4.ca]
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
In a 90 degree crosswind (or stiff crosswind at any angle), a wheel
landing with one wing low, and one wheel first, is the only way to land
the aircraft with no lateral "skidding" of the tire. A three-point
landing will, in a crosswind, require some lateral forces on the landing
gear, unless you can *instantly* transition from crabbed or one wing low
to straight down the runway with all three wheels rolling.
Is this necessary on all aircraft? Possibly not. But anything that
minimizes the sideways load on landing gear is a good thing, at least
that's what I was taught.
-RB4
Van Artsdalen, Scott wrote:
>
> Very true and I am trying to keep an open mind on the subject. I can land
> both ways I just can't see a reason to do a wheel landing over a
> three-point. What situation(s) would you do one over another?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
>
>Don Mei wrote:
>
>>There has been a lot of theorizing going on
>
>and
>
>> There is a real way to test all this stuff that you all have been
>>discussing. DO IT.
>>No offense intended, but so often I hear people espousing theories when all
>>they have to do is go out and fly it.
>
>We are best advised to take a position somewhere between endless thinking
>and impetuous action.
>
>At Oshkosh (Airventure to you marketer victims) this year, I attended an
>interesting talk by Martin Hollman of Monterey California. He was
>discussing a computer system for flutter testing. He voiced a strong
>objection to those who want to jump in the plane and do the flutter testing
>in the air. Several reasons. First, it allows for testing even before the
>aircraft is built. Second, it saves pilots and airplanes.
>
>Test flights are made for testing, of course. What the finished aircraft
>is expected to do should be proven during flight testing. Maybe they
>should be called 'proof flights'. Think, study, theorize until you are
>quite sure that the result of DO IT won't be the destruction of the rest of
>your day.
>
>I wonder what happens if I dive to Vne then jerk the stick back? DON'T TRY
>THIS AT ALL!
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
Flutter is still not as well understood as some of the aero
engineering guys like to think it is. They do ground vibration
testing to see the different modes of vibration, and measure the
natural frequency of each one. Then they do some analysis and
predict at what speed each type of flutter mode should be expected.
Then we go up and so some flight tests to see if they knew what they
were talking about. They often get it fairly close, but every once
in a while they really miss the mark. Boeing had flutter during
flight testing of a modified 707 (TACAMO program for the Navy) about
12 years ago. They lost half the vertical tail, if I recall
correctly. They rebuilt the plane, redid all their analysis, went
flying again and promptly lost half the tail again. If a company
with all their resources can't predict flutter, I question whether
Martin Hollman is going to get it right every time.
Fortunately we are building designs with a long history of
flutter-free flight. So, as long as we build per the plans, and
respect Van's recommended VNE, we should be OK.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
Doesn't Van's sell these ?? thought a few came with my kit
Gert
Roger Crandell wrote:
>
> Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
> sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
> platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
> special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
> other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
> application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
>
> Thanks
>
> Roger
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
RV6 Flyer wrote:
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 08:56:38 -0700
>
>
>
> Well, I only have 700 hours in a Champ. It's not a Cub and I didn't learn
> to fly it in the 60's so maybe my qualifications don't amount to much. But
> there is a local gent who's been flying his cub since he bought it back in
> 1948. I find it wonderful and amazing that he's still flying. He doesn't
> know how many hours he has because he stopped counting after 900. That was
> back in the 50's some time. When I asked him about wheel landings I got a
> half hour lecture on why there's never a reason to do a wheel landing. His
> basic premise was that no matter what, you want to be going as slowly as
> possible when you touch down. Whether you're going to make a good landing,
> a bad one, hit a tree, a dog, or go into a ditch, you still want to be going
> as slowly as possible. You land your airplane the way you want but I'm
> following the advice of an "old salt" that's been doing it for years.
>
> By the way, my tailwheel instructor learned to fly in the 60's, in a cub.
> He now flies a SuperCub. He's got all kinds of fancy ratings up through
> ATP, CFII, etc. He told me the same thing. Like I said, my qualifications
> may be suspect but some people I respect have told me these things, and
> their qualifications are pretty good.
>
> I'm not trying to pick a fight with anyone, just calling it like I see it.
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Manager
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
> Scott:
>
> I transitioned into Tailwheel aircraft in 1988. I had a GREAT instructor
> that also taught full stall landings. I am not sure when SHE learned to fly
> tailwheel but she also has all kinds of fancy ratings up through ATP, CFII,
> A&P, etc. She does checkouts in RVs and is one of only two instructors that
> I would let fly my airplane solo.
>
> 99% of the time I do full stall landings in my -6. Did a wheel landing with
> a crosswind after an Overhead Arrival with Paul Rosales at Willows-Glen
> (WLW) on the way home from Homecoming. Was having a conversation on
> crosswind wheel vs 3 point landings at the Homecoming. This prompted me to
> try something different. Kept the tail up too long and started toward the
> side of the runway. The aircraft was trying to weathervane into the wind.
> Got control back when the tail wheel touched down.
>
> This landing reminded me why I always do 3 point full stall landings or
> tailwheel first full stall landings.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
Hi Gary,
I doubt that you are full stalled if you do three point, it sounds more like I
do it most of the time. Set up a three point attitude and when I am lucky it
just starts rolling down the runnway. :)
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
Went to the homecoming this year. Several of we Colorado
people left on friday and had headwinds, virga and some lightning
to deal with. I would say the turnout was average. Alot of wonderful
RVs showed up. I have not heard an offical count but the parking was
full.
The RV10 prototype is really coming along! It is going to be a quality
airplane with LOTS of interior room for all.
The food was good and Van was his usual hospitable and helpful person
he always is.
Couldn't do much costal flying because of fog but we were able to get into
the Flying M and Pacific city. For the most part the weather was excellent!
Stewart RV-4 273SB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Performance of the RV-8 with a TAE 125 engine (135 |
HP)
>
>I have read some posts about this engine, HP, rpm, torque, etc. but I
>havent read anything about
>the performance of the RV-8 with this engine and a MT CS propeller.
>So, can someone estimate the following performance:
>-Cruise speed at 8000 feet (125,110 and 90 HP).
>-Rate of climb S.L.( 1400 and 1800 lbs).
>-Take-off distance S.L. (1400 and 1800 lbs.)
>Thanks
>
>Jose del Peso
>RV8 #80981
>Madrid (Spain)
>
Jose,
Based on the numbers on Van's web site for various power settings, I
predict the following cruise speeds at 8000 ft at 1800 lb weight,
with a prop that has the same efficiency as the Hartzell that Van
used:
power speed speed speed
(hp) (mph) (kt) (km/h)
125 195 170 314
110 187 163 301
90 175 152 281
These predictions were based on the speed Van lists for the 200 hp
engine at 55% power (110 hp). This is the engine he had in his
prototype, so I suspect all the performance predictions on his site
is based on tests with the 200 hp engine, and then analytically
corrected for other power conditions.
According to the info I got from Hartzell, the 72 inch prop Van sells
should get around 80% efficiency at these conditions. I'm not sure
what efficiency you should expect from the MT. If it does better
than 80%, you could do a bit better than these speeds. If it is
worse than 80%, you'll be slower. What rpm would the prop be turning
at each of these conditions?
Take-off and climb performance are a bit harder to predict. How much
power do you expect the engine to produce during take-off and climb?
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
>
>Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
>sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
>platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
>special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
>other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
>application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
>
>Thanks
>
>Roger
>
Roger,
I've got some old RV-List messages that indicate that you used to be
able to get these from:
Wicks,
Bon Aero (209-795-22363, Avery, CA), and
Skybolt Aeromotive Corp. 551 North Park Ave. ,Apopka, Florida 32712
(407)889-2613
For those that are wondering what these are, the K on the end of the
part number means they have dimpled rivet holes. I always just used
the NAS 1097 "cheater" rivets, as the very small head lets you
countersink the skin, and use a regular platenut.
Good luck
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
> One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> do it?
> Jerry
Van wrote an excellent article for the RVator a year or so ago specifically
on takeoffs, it is quite detailed. To oversimplify, he says "let it fly off,
no need to raise the tail". I had just started flying my plane at the time
and was pushing the stick forward as I was taught in the Citabria. I tried
Van's technique and it works great, no gyroscopic precession caused by the
prop to mess with, just set the trim properly and let it fly off. Try it.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 250.2 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HalBenjamin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Infamous WD-402/403 Fit |
Hello Listers,
It's time for me to have my WD402/403 fit. (Cousin of the hissy fit)
From what I've read in the archives, this seems to be a common problem in the
RV-4. Longerons don't line up very well with the 402 weldments. The angle
of the weldments doesn't match the angle of the longerons. The weldments used
to be "split" to aid in alignment, but are now solid.
Also, in order to have the skins fit well, the longerons would have to be
shimmed approximately 1/8" off the weldment. Or, as mentioned in the
archives, bend everything to fit and then shim for the skin fit. I'm going
to give Van's a call tomorrow, but I would be interested to hear what some of
you other guys did in this area.
Thanks for the help,
Hal Benjamin
RV-4, Fuselage & Job Hunting
Long Island, New York
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Busick" <panamared1(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
I will be interested to hear the results. I actually lowered the angle of
incidence (relative to the fuselage) to improve cruise speed.
Bob Busick
>
I'm going to do everything reasonable
> to increase my wing incidence relative to the fuselage (have e-mail from
> Van's engineering telling how much the aft spar can be lowered "below
plans"
> when drilled to fuselage, plus one from Van's himself stating he doesn't
> think my idea is very good - but only mentions the forward visibility
issue
> and years of successful operation "as is"), modify the tailwheel "spring"
> (straight steel rod) to lower tail a bit, increase landing gear length
> (Harmon Rocket - longer - titanium landing gear?), and/or find/use larger
> diameter tires (still have not found a combination of Cleveland wheels and
> "x brand" tires that fit Van's gear leg's wheel bearing size & spacing) -
so
> the three point attitude puts the wing closer to the actual stall angle of
> attack. My measurements indicate we are giving up about the last 4
degrees
> of useful angle of attack at the current 11 degree angle of incidence
> measured from Van's drawing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Engine Data Plate |
What both Bill and Greg say is correct. On an Experimental aircraft the
engine does not need a data plate. For your records only it would be good
if you could get the old data tag. If you are h*ll bent on getting a data
plate and can't get ahold of the the old one you will need to get ahold of
your local FSDO to get an inspection of the case so they can write you a
letter. Then you will need to send that letter along with your own letter
requesting a new plate to the manufacturer. They are the only ones that can
give you a new data plate.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
RV-8A, 6A, and 9A
>From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Engine Data Plate
>Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 10:09:27 -0500
>
>
>Move the data plate from the original sump, that's the one that matches
>the logs. There's some debate as to whether you need to mark the data
>plate as Experimental, mark with a "-C" for changed or not at all or
>remove it completely - check the archives and do what you think right. I
>moved mine and did not mark it but the logs are very clearly labeled. Of
>course if you don't have logs or built it from unrelated parts then it
>doesn't matter, just use blank SS. If it's a certified engine there is a
>special process to get a replacement data plate from Lycoming. I think
>you need some proof of its pedigree - not just a simple request.
>
>Regards,
>Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
>RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
>Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
>
> > -->
> >
> >
> > I recently had to change the sump on my engine. The sump I
> > received had no
> > data plate. I am assuming that when inspection time arrives the FAA
> > inspector or DAR will require an engine data plate. I have
> > checked Wicks,
> > Spruce, Vans, etc. and don't see a blank engine data plate
> > listed. Does
> > anyone know where I can find one?
> >
> > Vince
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV 4 Flaps.....FL 6 |
Hi again
I'm having a little difficulty in deciphering the sketches for the FL 6
assembly. Are there any better prints available other than the three views
shown on the bottom of sheet 15? Knew I should have taken blue print reading
somewhere along the line...Did get the rest of the first flap constructed and
it even looks like the drawings. Ha.
Thanks for any additional information.
Pat Long
Bay City, Michigan
(989)684-0581
Working on an RV-4
Email: PGLong(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going. :)
> Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well discussing
> RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point landings"
> very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that their
> airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone should land
> the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in landing
> techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone from Van's
> can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and rear
> fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use attitude,
> I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and hold
> that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you guys that
> believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are going to
> hit the tailwheel first.
> Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
> I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is afraid
> of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
> this subject.
> One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> do it?
> Jerry
>
Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
wheels. It looked so...........good!
It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
three-pointer.
I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
class medical????
Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
So Cal RV Group
| Subject: | Water leakage path |
Hi all:
After posting a question regarding water leakage into the belly area of
my 8A, I received a number of suggestions. Thanks to all who
responded. Today I got to the bottom of it and have the following info
for all of you, especially those in the building stage of any of the
nosewheel airplanes of all RV models.
A major, primary leakage path exists at the junction of the belly skin
that forms the lower fairing between fuselage and wing and the fuselage
just above it. This joint is a particular problem in the tri-gear
airplanes because of their level attitude on the ground. The belly skin
creates a low spot at which water accumulates from several sources, both
above and below the wing. Once there, standing water being quite
aggressive in its ability to penetrate small voids, it will flow into
the belly through this joint.
The first appearance is outboard of the two center floor beams, but it
then flows under these to pool in the area below the rear control
stick. Most of us have com, nav and transponder antenna coaxes running
through here, not to mention wing tip light wiring, pitot heat wiring,
etc. In my case, the water entered a wing root plug going to the OAT
probe below the right wing, causing erroneous temp readings after the
airplane was washed or sat outside in the rain. In one of those
Murphy's laws, I have a hanger here in So. Cal., where it rarely rains,
but every time I travel in the plane (often), it pours. Thus I have the
water problem every trip.
With wings on, it is not very easy to seal this joint, but for those of
you still building, it is quite easy. Just look at that lower fuselage
skin that extends beyond the fuselage in the wing root area. Where it
meets the fuselage you need to apply some type of sealant. I have also
drilled drain holes in that skin overlap area and in the belly of the
airplane after pouring water in there to see where the low points are.
You can either solve the problem now, when it is simple, or wait until
later when it is more difficult. There is no other path that I found
that is as much of a problem as this one is.
Bill Marvel
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832
7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
Van's Homecoming was significantly improved over the last couple of years,
primarily due to the efforts of EAA chapter 902, who provided breakfast and
lunch at Van's hangar both days. In addition parking seemed a bit better
organized which reduced some confusion getting in and out, and Van's people
were out and about and accessible, and the weather was great!
And there did seem to be a lot of flying in and out. That's one neat thing
about the Homecoming -- the informal, 2-day format offers an opportunity for
flyers to come in, oogle each other's planes, BS a while, fly out to a
nearby airport for lunch, fly back in, oogle and BS some more, etc. for the
whole weekend. I did that and had a great time, and only wished I'd had a
bit more time to do that.
I attended the banquet, my first in several years, and had a nice time. The
food was quite good, and the atmosphere was nice although the windowless
banquet room (Holiday in Wilsonville) left somethig to be desired in my
opinion. I think that the couple of years they held it at the Pumpkin Ridge
Golf Course years ago have unfortunately spoiled me forever. General Manager
Tom Green made a good MC for the show with his dry wit, and Mike Robertson
gave a nice talk on certifying your homebuilt. And Ken Kruger held the
audience spellbound with his presentation on the RV-10, including slides of
detailed 3-view drawings.
I can't speak for the ground-bound, still-builders or wannabees, but it
seemed to me there was plenty for them as well -- touring the factory,
checking out the RV-10 prototype parts that were prominently display, having
an opportunity to talk to Van's people face-to-face, and of course checking
out all the finished RVs and talking to their owners.
I do think that everyone including Vans people will agree that its not what
it used to be when it was out at Sunset. In some ways this is good -- for
example I didn't see any busted props this year. And Van himself seems much
less stressed out, no doubt due to not having to worry about some bozo
plowing into the food line at the end of the runway. But still... the
parking fragmented and away from the runway, the asphalt runway and ramps,
the much more industrial feel to the facility, just make for a less
"grass-roots" kind of feel to the thing. There have been noises about
holding at least one day of the fly-in at some other, more
comfortable-feeling place. Don't know if that will happen but I hope they
give it a try some time.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
In a message dated 9/4/02 10:45:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
zilik(at)bewellnet.com writes:
<< I did exactly that. From the fuel pump to the carb is a big loop with the
flowscan mounted horizontal and about 3 inches higher than the pump. >>
Help. I've been following this thread with interest but now I'm confused so
please bare with me. I have read (in EI flowmeter installation instructions)
that the flow transducer should be mounted below the carb inlet, but it sound
from Gary's installation that this may not be necessary. I need to sort this
out because I'm ready to mount the bloody thing somewhere.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerospace Logic |
Actually, I believe that the standard size instrument hole is 2 1/4" not 2"
Dave
>
> They list this as fitting a 2" hole. Mine was slightly over 2" and needed
> some enlarging on the 2" hole I had cut for it.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
Harry:
Take a deep breath. It ain't that bad...
FWIW, I have a VM1000 in my 8A. I mounted the flowmeter downstream of both the
electrical and mechanical fuel pumps, just before the carb. It is attached to
the engine mount with adel clamps and a long, gradual-looping fuel line leads to
it in order to have a six inch (or so) straight run into the meter. It is about
three inches above the carb inlet and works fine.
In the certified world, I have a Grumman Tiger with a Hoskins FT100 fuel flow
system. In this STC'd application, the transducer (flowmeter) is located about
6
inches above the carb and it also works fine.
Personally, I would go by what the manufacturer of your unit said. Just follow
the instructions and you'll be fine. There is ALWAYS a way to install it per the
instructions. It may work in other configurations, but testing this hypothesis
is not one of the things I want to be involved with over nasty terrain at night.
Bill Marvel
HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/4/02 10:45:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> zilik(at)bewellnet.com writes:
>
> << I did exactly that. From the fuel pump to the carb is a big loop with the
> flowscan mounted horizontal and about 3 inches higher than the pump. >>
>
> Help. I've been following this thread with interest but now I'm confused so
> please bare with me. I have read (in EI flowmeter installation instructions)
> that the flow transducer should be mounted below the carb inlet, but it sound
> from Gary's installation that this may not be necessary. I need to sort this
> out because I'm ready to mount the bloody thing somewhere.
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, electrical stuff
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)surfsouth.com> |
| Subject: | Dipstick Question |
A couple of years ago during the overhaul of my 0-320-E2D, I needed an oil
dipstick and the tube that screws into the oil sump because the core I
bought did not come with one. In my infinite wisdom, I called the salvage
yard and told them to send me the shortest one they had. Man it was great!
All metal (no plastic for me) and about 6 1/2 inches tall for the paltry sum
of $40.00. I cleaned it up, painted the housing Lycoming grey and the screw
cap industrial yellow. It really looked good safety wired to the sump.
Now fast forward. The engine was recently mounted to the airframe and at
first glance everything looked good. However when I tried to unscrew the
dipstick I realized that the dipstick housing is hard up against the
dynafocal mount tubing between the upper and lower engine mounts. Of course
this is unacceptable because the first engine start will probably break the
whole shebang out of the oil sump with a resultant loss of oil. What length
dipstick housing should I be using for an RV4? It looks like one about 2
inches longer will work but that will only give about 1/8 inch clearance
between the tube and engine mount. The reason I don't have clearance now is
because the housing is larger at the threaded area where the dipstick screws
in. Extending this area out a couple of inches will put the necked down
portion of the tube next to the mount thus providing a small amout of
clearance. Is this right? How much clearance do you need here? Do I need
more washers under the lower engine mounts? I have one big one on each side
between the mount and the bosses on the engine as per the directions. Can
someone tell me what length housing I need?
Jerry Isler
RV4 # 1070
N455J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | emrath <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RE-RV-list: need 6 platenuts |
Why not get them from VAN's ? Seems like the catelog on-line has them
for $0.65 each. I recently needed 2 but then ordered them with a bunch
of other hwd.
Have fun.
Marty in Brentwood TN, RV-6A Slider Canopy cutting.
From: Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com>
Subject: RV-List: need 6 platenuts
Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
Thanks
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
> Van wrote an excellent article for the RVator a year or so ago
specifically
> on takeoffs, it is quite detailed. To oversimplify, he says "let it fly
off,
> no need to raise the tail". I had just started flying my plane at the time
> and was pushing the stick forward as I was taught in the Citabria. I tried
> Van's technique and it works great, no gyroscopic precession caused by the
> prop to mess with, just set the trim properly and let it fly off. Try it.
I second that one. I too flew a Citabria while building my RV, and the first
50 or so hours in the RV I would held it on the runway to 60 or so before
taking off. No need! Once I started just letting it fly off with neutral
trim, it felt like it'd been let out of its cage.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
Does anyone know why my encoder would consistently send an altitude signal that's
exactly five hundred feet low ?
Did I wire one or two of the many interconnect wires wrong?
Will the adjustment screws take up this much error? It's a new encoder.
I've traced the wiring twice against the install manual and it appears Ok, if I'm
using the right schematic. The transponder is an old Narco AT-50 but it appears
to answer interrogations promptly.
Thanks again, guys,
Scott in VAncouver
-6, 5 hours!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Ha! You're funny.
What's the technique for the wheelie, and making the first turn-off?
I like wheelies too. Better visibility. I only have a miniscule amount
of time in a Cub and Super Cub though, so I may not know any better. :)
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish/fwf
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 10:55 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
>
> Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a
> confession to make. I don't know exactly how it started, and
> I certainly didn't think it would progress this far. It's not
> like I planned it or anything, or even wanted it to happen!
> It was so innocent at first, but before long.....I was
> hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
> meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted
> with how inconsistent my three point landings were becoming.
> I started seeing other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing
> their planes on just the main wheels. It looked so...........good!
>
> It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge
> becomes stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't
> wait until you have the chance to do another......then
> another.....then...........another!!
>
> Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV
> wheel-lander!
>
> There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about
> redicule from that hateful group of RV-listers that cast a
> disgusting gaze in my direction as I grease on another wheel
> landing. No longer do I have to "explain" the "RV Skip" after
> trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a three-pointer.
>
> I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I
> want! All I have to do is have full flaps as I cross the
> numbers (this results in maximum nose-down attitude), keep a
> little power, and fly down to the runway. I have even figured
> out how to make the first turn-off!
>
> No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting
> current with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can
> land! I am a bird!!
>
> I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men
> in the white suits........I HATE needles.........does this
> mean I lose my third class medical????
>
> Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
>
> Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aerospace Logic |
yes I think you are right, but the size was larger than called out. I dont
remember without going down and measuring......... Seems it was about a
sixteenth bigger than they said.
Phil
Dave Bristol wrote:
>
> Actually, I believe that the standard size instrument hole is 2 1/4" not 2"
>
> Dave
>
> >
> > They list this as fitting a 2" hole. Mine was slightly over 2" and needed
> > some enlarging on the 2" hole I had cut for it.
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Panel Access - slider |
| From: | "Martin Hone" <martin.hone(at)tradergroup.com.au> |
I am contemplating cutting an access panel in the fwd top skin, just in
front of the windscreen on the pilot's side, on my RV6. This will give
me easy access to the rear of the firewall and the various electrical
and brake fittings, including the brake reservoir, that will be a
nightmare to get to after the top skin is rivetted in place.
Is there a structural reason why I should not do this ?
Thanks in advance,
Martin in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
My feelings exactly Sam. Although not flying the RV yet, I rarely land the
Stinson in 3 points unless I'm going into a very short field. When getting
my tailwheel training about 250 hours ago my instructor didn't want me even
playing around with 3 pointers. In fact, in all of my 5 hours of tailwheel
instruction I don't recall even performing a "wheel" landing.
However, when the time comes to get into that 1200' strip you need to
pointed with nose to the air and praying to the God of Landings (at least in
the Stinson by this inexperienced tailwheel pilot).
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> >
> > One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going.
:)
> > Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
discussing
> > RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point
landings"
> > very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that their
> > airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone should
land
> > the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in
landing
> > techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone from
Van's
> > can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and rear
> > fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> > wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
attitude,
> > I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and hold
> > that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you
guys that
> > believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are
going to
> > hit the tailwheel first.
> > Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> > of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
> > I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> > someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is
afraid
> > of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
> > this subject.
> > One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> > main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> > do it?
> > Jerry
> >
>
>
> Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
> make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
> it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
> even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
> long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
> meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
> inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
> other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
> wheels. It looked so...........good!
>
> It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
> stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
> the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
>
> Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
>
> There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
> hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
> as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
> the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
> three-pointer.
>
> I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
> have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
> maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
> runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
>
> No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
> with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
>
> I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
> white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
> class medical????
>
> Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
>
> Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
In a message dated 9/4/2002 7:57:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
writes:
> Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
> make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
> it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
> even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
> long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
> meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
> inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
> other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
> wheels. It looked so...........good!
>
> It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
> stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
> the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
>
> Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
>
> There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
> hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
> as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
> the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
> three-pointer.
>
> I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
> have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
> maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
> runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
>
> No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
> with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
>
> I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
> white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
> class medical????
>
> Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
>
> Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
>
Nice to have ya in the "you can kiss the runway on the mains anytime you want
club". Isn't it amazing how well a little dowm trim works on those greaser
wheel landings.
Tim Barnes
Meangreen RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: encoder error |
Probably just an encoder calibration error. Take it to an avionics shop for testing.
Bill Marvel
Jaye and Scott Jackson wrote:
>
> Does anyone know why my encoder would consistently send an altitude signal that's
exactly five hundred feet low ?
> Did I wire one or two of the many interconnect wires wrong?
> Will the adjustment screws take up this much error? It's a new encoder.
> I've traced the wiring twice against the install manual and it appears Ok, if
I'm using the right schematic. The transponder is an old Narco AT-50 but it appears
to answer interrogations promptly.
> Thanks again, guys,
> Scott in VAncouver
> -6, 5 hours!
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Dipstick Question |
Jerry, I have the same engine and had to cut my plastic dipstick down. I'll
check it when I go to airport today.
Ron Calhoun
Rv-4 Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Isler
Subject: RV-List: Dipstick Question
A couple of years ago during the overhaul of my 0-320-E2D, I needed an oil
dipstick and the tube that screws into the oil sump because the core I
bought did not come with one. In my infinite wisdom, I called the salvage
yard and told them to send me the shortest one they had. Man it was great!
All metal (no plastic for me) and about 6 1/2 inches tall for the paltry sum
of $40.00. I cleaned it up, painted the housing Lycoming grey and the screw
cap industrial yellow. It really looked good safety wired to the sump.
Now fast forward. The engine was recently mounted to the airframe and at
first glance everything looked good. However when I tried to unscrew the
dipstick I realized that the dipstick housing is hard up against the
dynafocal mount tubing between the upper and lower engine mounts. Of course
this is unacceptable because the first engine start will probably break the
whole shebang out of the oil sump with a resultant loss of oil. What length
dipstick housing should I be using for an RV4? It looks like one about 2
inches longer will work but that will only give about 1/8 inch clearance
between the tube and engine mount. The reason I don't have clearance now is
because the housing is larger at the threaded area where the dipstick screws
in. Extending this area out a couple of inches will put the necked down
portion of the tube next to the mount thus providing a small amout of
clearance. Is this right? How much clearance do you need here? Do I need
more washers under the lower engine mounts? I have one big one on each side
between the mount and the bosses on the engine as per the directions. Can
someone tell me what length housing I need?
Jerry Isler
RV4 # 1070
N455J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: encoder error |
>
>Does anyone know why my encoder would consistently send an altitude
>signal that's exactly five hundred feet low ?
>Did I wire one or two of the many interconnect wires wrong?
>Will the adjustment screws take up this much error? It's a new encoder.
>I've traced the wiring twice against the install manual and it
>appears Ok, if I'm using the right schematic. The transponder is an
>old Narco AT-50 but it appears to answer interrogations promptly.
>Thanks again, guys,
>Scott in VAncouver
>-6, 5 hours!
>
You might try this question on the Aeroelectric list, also hosted by
Matt Dralle. There have been a couple of encoder questions there
over the last few months, and there seem to be several guys on that
list who have access to the Gray code that those things use. They
might be able to tell you whether a wiring problem could be the cause.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com> |
Tim Barnes
i had the same problem in July, here is the post:
> i flew from Chicago to St Louis yesterday in 90 deg humid and hazy
> conditions. No problems on the way there but on the return i decided
to
> climb to 14,500' to get on top of the haze and avoid towering Q's in
the
> area. While climbing with fuel injected 0-360 and mech pump the engine
> quit at about 13,000' and i had to turn the boost pump on to get it to
> run. i leveled off at 14,500 and continued on with the boost pump and
> dialed in the nearest airports on the way. i tried to turn off the
boost
> twice with same results. The third time it ran ok on the mech pump and
i
> continued home without any problems. Has anyone else had this problem?
i
> am thinking it was the heat and altitude that vapor locked the mech
> pump. N564DF race #53 Chicago.
> Dennis and Fran
>
it had 100oct avgas, the mech pump is 34 years old along with the rest
of the aircraft.This has not happened before or after the above flight.
You can see a photo of my system at
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/flamini@home.com/N4JB-Servo.jpg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Well,
I have to fess up as well, being a native San Diegan I used to be a surfer.
One thing I noticed was that every wave is different. So to is every
landing, regardless of how hard we try to make them all the same.
So is every airplane. I can assure you that on a gusty day, if you know how
to do a wheel landing, the only way to keep a kitfox from going where it
wants is to keep the nose down, which means the tail has to stay up. They
are so light on wing loading that the upwind wing loves to start flying
again, sometimes after being down and stalled for some time.
Forward stick corrects this, but one has to learn this carfully or do a lot
of engine work.
As for my 6, sometimes I touch the tail first, sometimes I touch the mains
first, sometimes I touch them all at the same time, and sometimes I have no
idea what the heck I did, but the airplane still works. I am usually happy
when what I planned to do actually happened and it worked. Beyond that who
cares. I fly because I want to do it all, and be somewhat good at most of
it. Someday I might get one out of two, but I doubt I'll ever get both of
these down.
One comment Mike Seager made was that doing three point takeoffs on a gusty
day can get you into trouble, so it seems like a good idea to keep up the
tail up take off skills.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Water leakage path |
Bill,
Thanks for the great post. Could you give us fore to aft location for drilling
the drain holes? How far from the forward edge of the belly skins?
TIA
Charlie Kuss
>Hi all:
>
>After posting a question regarding water leakage into the belly area of
>my 8A, I received a number of suggestions. Thanks to all who
>responded. Today I got to the bottom of it and have the following info
>for all of you, especially those in the building stage of any of the
>nosewheel airplanes of all RV models.
>
>A major, primary leakage path exists at the junction of the belly skin
>that forms the lower fairing between fuselage and wing and the fuselage
>just above it. This joint is a particular problem in the tri-gear
>airplanes because of their level attitude on the ground. The belly skin
>creates a low spot at which water accumulates from several sources, both
>above and below the wing. Once there, standing water being quite
>aggressive in its ability to penetrate small voids, it will flow into
>the belly through this joint.
>snipped
>With wings on, it is not very easy to seal this joint, but for those of
>you still building, it is quite easy. Just look at that lower fuselage
>skin that extends beyond the fuselage in the wing root area. Where it
>meets the fuselage you need to apply some type of sealant. I have also
>drilled drain holes in that skin overlap area and in the belly of the
>airplane after pouring water in there to see where the low points are.
>You can either solve the problem now, when it is simple, or wait until
>later when it is more difficult. There is no other path that I found
>that is as much of a problem as this one is.
>
>Bill Marvel
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aeroquip bends |
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
Mine instructions stated that it should be mounted above the carb inlet if
possable. I really see no reason why it should make any difference. On a friends
RV-8A I routed the flowscan in a simular fashion with the unit higher than the
carb. This was on a VM1000 and following the directions supplied with the
flowscan.I do know that the manufactures wants the flowscan mounted between the
mechanical pump and the carb. Liability drives this and the fact that is how the
part was certifed.
Gary
Quoting HCRV6(at)aol.com:
>
> In a message dated 9/4/02 10:45:53 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> zilik(at)bewellnet.com writes:
>
> << I did exactly that. From the fuel pump to the carb is a big loop with
> the
> flowscan mounted horizontal and about 3 inches higher than the pump.
> >>
>
> Help. I've been following this thread with interest but now I'm
> confused so
> please bare with me. I have read (in EI flowmeter installation
> instructions)
> that the flow transducer should be mounted below the carb inlet, but it
> sound
> from Gary's installation that this may not be necessary. I need to sort
> this
> out because I'm ready to mount the bloody thing somewhere.
>
> Harry Crosby
> Pleasanton, California
> RV-6, electrical stuff
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Well, this has been a fun thread. I can't resist jumping in, though with two
disclaimers...first, I have no RV time, and second, this is NOT internet
flight instruction.
I think Boyd earlier referenced an article about wheel landings, see--
http://www.skywagon.org/content/kbase/mainkbaseframesset.htm
There is a lot of experience collected there. The theory presented is that
you can stop just as short with a wheel landings as 3 point (if you have
good brakes), and I believe it.
I have spent the last several years on the Cessna 180/185 email list, as
well as this one. We have held this same debate there several times. There
seem to be as many opinions as pilots, expecially when you get into the
details. I started flying taildraggers in a Taylorcraft, and have flown
about 30 different kinds total, but most of my time is in C180/185s. I
really think wheel vs 3-point depends on the airplane, and the conditions.
Any Tailwheel Pilot worth the title is comfortable with either. He will do
what is best for the situation. If he has an underpowered, big wing type
with cable operated heel brakes, he will probably 3 point most of the time.
If he has a big heavy airplane with good toe brakes, he will wheel land
(ever see a DC-3 3-point?).
Same sort of thing on takeoff. If you are flying an underpowered Cub or
T-cart, you best lift the tail before you lift off, to get some extra speed
for immunity to gusts. If you have less than 10lbs/HP power loading (RV),
there is probably no need, unless it is really gusty.
Thanks for the discussion, now I am even more fired up to fly this 8. Maybe
by the end of this month!!!
John, RV8, Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going. :)
> Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
discussing
> RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point
landings"
> very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that their
> airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone should
land
> the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in landing
> techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone from
Van's
> can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and rear
> fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
attitude,
> I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and hold
> that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you guys
that
> believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are going
to
> hit the tailwheel first.
> Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
> I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is afraid
> of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
> this subject.
> One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> do it?
> Jerry
>
Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
wheels. It looked so...........good!
It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
three-pointer.
I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
class medical????
Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Water leakage path |
Hi Charlie:
Best bet here is determine it on your own airplane. The exact location of any
low spot may well vary. I just poured a cup water in there and then
drilled according to where the "lake" formed. I took the holes out to 3/16 but
draining began as soon as the first number 40 was drilled.
Bill Marvel
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> Bill,
> Thanks for the great post. Could you give us fore to aft location for drilling
the drain holes? How far from the forward edge of the belly skins?
> TIA
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >Hi all:
> >
> >After posting a question regarding water leakage into the belly area of
> >my 8A, I received a number of suggestions. Thanks to all who
> >responded. Today I got to the bottom of it and have the following info
> >for all of you, especially those in the building stage of any of the
> >nosewheel airplanes of all RV models.
> >
> >A major, primary leakage path exists at the junction of the belly skin
> >that forms the lower fairing between fuselage and wing and the fuselage
> >just above it. This joint is a particular problem in the tri-gear
> >airplanes because of their level attitude on the ground. The belly skin
> >creates a low spot at which water accumulates from several sources, both
> >above and below the wing. Once there, standing water being quite
> >aggressive in its ability to penetrate small voids, it will flow into
> >the belly through this joint.
> >snipped
> >With wings on, it is not very easy to seal this joint, but for those of
> >you still building, it is quite easy. Just look at that lower fuselage
> >skin that extends beyond the fuselage in the wing root area. Where it
> >meets the fuselage you need to apply some type of sealant. I have also
> >drilled drain holes in that skin overlap area and in the belly of the
> >airplane after pouring water in there to see where the low points are.
> >You can either solve the problem now, when it is simple, or wait until
> >later when it is more difficult. There is no other path that I found
> >that is as much of a problem as this one is.
> >
> >Bill Marvel
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
I must be missing something here regarding crosswind landings... my RV-4 (and every
other plane I've flown) would make a wing low, full stall landing just fine.
Who says you can only have wing low, wheel landings???? Don't believe them!
OTOH, my RV-4 also made nice wheel landings. The wheel landings had 2 advantages
in the RV-4, which is a tail heavy creature when built with a wood prop:
1) the landings were easier when Bubba was in the back. Tail heavy loading made
for a bouncy full stall landing.
2) when I wanted to stop in the least possible distance, I made a normal approach
until the wheels touched, pushed the stick forward, and got on the brakes.
Easy to stop quick with a bit of practice. The nose low attitude is a bit unusual
at first though.
However,I still don't think that wheel landings and crosswinds are necessarily
codependent!
YMMV,
Vince
F-1H Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
For all you guys who have bonded on the canopy bubble using Proseal, Lexel, or
whatever. How did you attach the aluminum side skirts without adding rivets???
If you glued it on.... how did you clamp it down until the glue sets????
I gotta know!
Vince
F-1H Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
FWIW, back when I earned a living in a properly configured airplane ; ), I
had a friend who liked touching down tail wheel first on our grass runway.
We had to straighten the bottom of the rudder more than once due to contact
with the tail wheel... then the internal spring for the detent function of
the 'full swivel' Scott unit failed... food for thought....
Glen
rv8, right side up again
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
I do. My reason being that the tailwheel airplanes I've flown thus far will
get off the ground quicker that way. My Champ, the Citabria I rented, and
the Aeronca K I've been flying are all flown that way.
And yes, Jerry, I have to agree we can get a good thread going when we're
not bickering. :-D
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
do it?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Maybe I'm assuming too much. Is 1200' considered a short strip? Because
those are the runway lengths I go into frequently. 3000' is long and
luxurious in my opinion. Maybe that's why my instructors (and myself) are
hung up on three-point full-stall landings. I've always treated every
landing as a short field landing. Power-off approach too. However I will
agree with Jerry and others who have said you can't fly every single
airplane the same as all the others. Every airplane requires it's own
specific technique and I am sooooo looking forward to figuring out my -4!!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
My feelings exactly Sam. Although not flying the RV yet, I rarely land the
Stinson in 3 points unless I'm going into a very short field. When getting
my tailwheel training about 250 hours ago my instructor didn't want me even
playing around with 3 pointers. In fact, in all of my 5 hours of tailwheel
instruction I don't recall even performing a "wheel" landing.
However, when the time comes to get into that 1200' strip you need to
pointed with nose to the air and praying to the God of Landings (at least in
the Stinson by this inexperienced tailwheel pilot).
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> >
> > One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going.
:)
> > Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
discussing
> > RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point
landings"
> > very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that their
> > airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone should
land
> > the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in
landing
> > techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone from
Van's
> > can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and rear
> > fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> > wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
attitude,
> > I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and hold
> > that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you
guys that
> > believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are
going to
> > hit the tailwheel first.
> > Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> > of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
> > I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> > someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is
afraid
> > of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
> > this subject.
> > One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> > main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> > do it?
> > Jerry
> >
>
>
> Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
> make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
> it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
> even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
> long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
> meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
> inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
> other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
> wheels. It looked so...........good!
>
> It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
> stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
> the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
>
> Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
>
> There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
> hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
> as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
> the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
> three-pointer.
>
> I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
> have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
> maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
> runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
>
> No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
> with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
>
> I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
> white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
> class medical????
>
> Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
>
> Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Very well put! Actually wheel-landing can be made much shorter than
three-points. As the mains touch down, apply full brake and full forward
stick. The plane stops pretty quickly. Come to think of it, the same
technique will work from a three-point attitude!
Disclaimer for the humor-impaired: That was a joke.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: John Huft [mailto:rv8tor(at)lazy8.net]
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
Well, this has been a fun thread. I can't resist jumping in, though with two
disclaimers...first, I have no RV time, and second, this is NOT internet
flight instruction.
I think Boyd earlier referenced an article about wheel landings, see--
http://www.skywagon.org/content/kbase/mainkbaseframesset.htm
There is a lot of experience collected there. The theory presented is that
you can stop just as short with a wheel landings as 3 point (if you have
good brakes), and I believe it.
I have spent the last several years on the Cessna 180/185 email list, as
well as this one. We have held this same debate there several times. There
seem to be as many opinions as pilots, expecially when you get into the
details. I started flying taildraggers in a Taylorcraft, and have flown
about 30 different kinds total, but most of my time is in C180/185s. I
really think wheel vs 3-point depends on the airplane, and the conditions.
Any Tailwheel Pilot worth the title is comfortable with either. He will do
what is best for the situation. If he has an underpowered, big wing type
with cable operated heel brakes, he will probably 3 point most of the time.
If he has a big heavy airplane with good toe brakes, he will wheel land
(ever see a DC-3 3-point?).
Same sort of thing on takeoff. If you are flying an underpowered Cub or
T-cart, you best lift the tail before you lift off, to get some extra speed
for immunity to gusts. If you have less than 10lbs/HP power loading (RV),
there is probably no need, unless it is really gusty.
Thanks for the discussion, now I am even more fired up to fly this 8. Maybe
by the end of this month!!!
John, RV8, Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
> One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going. :)
> Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
discussing
> RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point
landings"
> very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that their
> airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone should
land
> the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in landing
> techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone from
Van's
> can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and rear
> fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
attitude,
> I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and hold
> that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you guys
that
> believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are going
to
> hit the tailwheel first.
> Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
> I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is afraid
> of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
> this subject.
> One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> do it?
> Jerry
>
Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
wheels. It looked so...........good!
It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
three-pointer.
I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
class medical????
Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Actually Jerry, I'm quite proud of both of us. We had a rational discussion
without getting mad, calling each other names, or leaving the list. Well
done! :)
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going. :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Al Mojzisik <prober(at)iwaynet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Water leakage path |
Bill and Charlie,
One thing you may consider when drilling into a known pool of water on the
other side of the material being drilled is to take a shortened Styrofoam
cup or a short cat food can or something similar and drill the hole into
the can first. Then place the can/cup over the drill so the drill sticks
up higher than the edge of the can/cup. Now hold the can/cup as you drill
the hole in the skin and as the water comes through it will leak into the
can/cup and not get all over the drill motor. If you hold the whole thing
at a slight angle as you make penetration the water will go to the inside
edge of the can/cup and will not leak out onto the drill motor as it gives
you time to extract the drill and let the water leak out the new hole. This
also works when drilling upward into drywall, wood, or metal and prevents
the drill chips from flying into your face and safety
glasses. HTH....... AL
>
>Hi Charlie:
>
>Best bet here is determine it on your own airplane. The exact location of
>any low spot may well vary. I just poured a cup water in there and then
>drilled according to where the "lake" formed. I took the holes out to
>3/16 but draining began as soon as the first number 40 was drilled.
>
>Bill Marvel
>
>
>Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
> >
> > Bill,
> > Thanks for the great post. Could you give us fore to aft location for
> drilling the drain holes? How far from the forward edge of the belly skins?
> > TIA
> > Charlie Kuss
> >
> > >Hi all:
> > >
> > >After posting a question regarding water leakage into the belly area of
> > >my 8A, I received a number of suggestions. Thanks to all who
> > >responded. Today I got to the bottom of it and have the following info
> > >for all of you, especially those in the building stage of any of the
> > >nosewheel airplanes of all RV models.
> > >
> > >A major, primary leakage path exists at the junction of the belly skin
> > >that forms the lower fairing between fuselage and wing and the fuselage
> > >just above it. This joint is a particular problem in the tri-gear
> > >airplanes because of their level attitude on the ground. The belly skin
> > >creates a low spot at which water accumulates from several sources, both
> > >above and below the wing. Once there, standing water being quite
> > >aggressive in its ability to penetrate small voids, it will flow into
> > >the belly through this joint.
> > >snipped
> > >With wings on, it is not very easy to seal this joint, but for those of
> > >you still building, it is quite easy. Just look at that lower fuselage
> > >skin that extends beyond the fuselage in the wing root area. Where it
> > >meets the fuselage you need to apply some type of sealant. I have also
> > >drilled drain holes in that skin overlap area and in the belly of the
> > >airplane after pouring water in there to see where the low points are.
> > >You can either solve the problem now, when it is simple, or wait until
> > >later when it is more difficult. There is no other path that I found
> > >that is as much of a problem as this one is.
> > >
> > >Bill Marvel
> >
>
>
>--
>Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
>P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
>San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
>
>One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dalski, Dave" <dave.dalski(at)eds.com> |
| Subject: | Navaid Autopilot FOR SALE |
Navaid autopilot for sale - as removed from RV-8A for upgrade. Perfect
condition. Includes control head, servo, linkage, instructions, etc.. Used
very little - aircraft at 50 hours when removed. $1050 Navaid details at
http://www.navaid-devices.com/ Interested? Contact dave.dalski@eds.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
>Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
>of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
>I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
>someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is afraid
>of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
>this subject.
>One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
>main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
>do it?
>Jerry
Jerry,
As I mentioned previously, my only tailwheel experience is in the C-140
so I wont try to make the claim that it carries to any other type. I find
that wheel landings are more challenging and that's the reason I practice
them. But I havent yet found a situation in which there would be an
advantage to using a wheel landing. From the varied responses, it appears
that there isnt a consensus opinion stating under what circumstances a
wheel landing would be more appropriate.
I was taught to raise the tail on takeoff ASAP in the C-140. Some time
after I got my tailwheel endorsement, one of my partners emailed me a copy
of an old magazine article (circa 1950) with a pilot review of the C-140.
The author stated that he found takeoffs were easier and shorter if the
airplane was simply allowed to fly off. I tried it and now usually do it
that way. I throw in the occasional takeoff with the tail raised just to
stay proficient at it.
The owner of the gliderport has been in business and flying (power and
gliders) for many years. He even does an aerobatic routine in a Grob on the
airshow circuit. So I doubt he's afraid of wheel landings. I suspect that
like several others who have commented on this thread, he simply feels that
there is never a reason why a wheel landing should be chosen over a 3
point. And that because for at least some of us, wheelies are more
challenging, doing them poses an unacceptible risk for no reason. At his
gliderport all of his rental ships (about 2 dozen gliders) are tied down on
the north side of the runway, parallel to it, at the approach end about 50
feet from the runway edge. A ground loop to the north would probably put
him out of business.
Mike Wills
RV-4 firewall forward details; Mazda powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
I think that's probably the best answer. Do both types of landings, and use
the one you're more comfortable with because you'll probably be more
proficient at it and able to safely land in any conditions.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Wills [mailto:willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil]
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
>of them and well never really learn the full ability of their airplane.
>I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
>someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is afraid
>of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts on
>this subject.
>One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
>main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
>do it?
>Jerry
Jerry,
As I mentioned previously, my only tailwheel experience is in the C-140
so I wont try to make the claim that it carries to any other type. I find
that wheel landings are more challenging and that's the reason I practice
them. But I havent yet found a situation in which there would be an
advantage to using a wheel landing. From the varied responses, it appears
that there isnt a consensus opinion stating under what circumstances a
wheel landing would be more appropriate.
I was taught to raise the tail on takeoff ASAP in the C-140. Some time
after I got my tailwheel endorsement, one of my partners emailed me a copy
of an old magazine article (circa 1950) with a pilot review of the C-140.
The author stated that he found takeoffs were easier and shorter if the
airplane was simply allowed to fly off. I tried it and now usually do it
that way. I throw in the occasional takeoff with the tail raised just to
stay proficient at it.
The owner of the gliderport has been in business and flying (power and
gliders) for many years. He even does an aerobatic routine in a Grob on the
airshow circuit. So I doubt he's afraid of wheel landings. I suspect that
like several others who have commented on this thread, he simply feels that
there is never a reason why a wheel landing should be chosen over a 3
point. And that because for at least some of us, wheelies are more
challenging, doing them poses an unacceptible risk for no reason. At his
gliderport all of his rental ships (about 2 dozen gliders) are tied down on
the north side of the runway, parallel to it, at the approach end about 50
feet from the runway edge. A ground loop to the north would probably put
him out of business.
Mike Wills
RV-4 firewall forward details; Mazda powered
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | 3M VHB tape for canopy install |
Just received this from 3M tech support- thought y'all might be
interested. Even if I do go this route, most likely across the top of
the roll bar and top edge of the side skirts, I'll still have screws at
least in the corners and probably screw or rivet around the rear window
with a thin bead of Lexel or pro-seal for sealant. Here's the note:
Thank you for inquiring about 3M products.
There are no long term affects of VHB's on acrylics, since VHB tapes are
a
closed cell acrylic foam, coated with an acyric adhesive. And All
acrylics
are totally UV resistant.
If you have further questions or need more
information, I can be reached at
1-800-285-3215; ext. 29.
Regards,
Steve Ripka
3M Industrial Markets
Technical Support Center
1-800-362-3550
-----------Original Message Follows------------
mail_subject* = VHB tape on acrylic sheet
message* = Are there any known long-term negative effects of using VHB
tape
on acrylic (Plexiglas) such as reaction of the adhesive to the acrylic,
or
degradation from exposure to temperature extremes or intense UV
radiation?
Thanks!
name* = Mark Phillips
Moving on at the PossumWorks
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Modular Instrument Panel |
I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have called
me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, after it
was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27.
As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our orders.
The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site
http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in
place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of the
questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone who
has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it
better.
Regards,
Fabian Lefler
RV-9A (90292)
N292FL (Reserved)
fablef(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Check out how many Luscombe 8A's have the bottom of their rudder removed for
the same reason.
Have not seen any RV-X (not A) with any rudder damage
----Original Message Follows----
Subject: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 10:44:12 -0400
FWIW, back when I earned a living in a properly configured airplane ; ), I
had a friend who liked touching down tail wheel first on our grass runway.
We had to straighten the bottom of the rudder more than once due to contact
with the tail wheel... then the internal spring for the detent function of
the 'full swivel' Scott unit failed... food for thought....
Glen
rv8, right side up again
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charles Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Flo Scan (Was Aeroquip bends) |
I have the AP fuel injection in addition to the VM1000 so my FloScan is
mounted between the Fuel Controller (carb) and the Fuel Distributor.
Both fuel lines have long gradual curves in them, and no sharp 90 bends.
A related question. My VM1000 manual says to protect the FloScan with
fireseal, or air ducted heat shielding. I have mine mounted low on the
firewall and not near any direct heat source. Are others adding the heat
protection as per the manual?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB (Res.)
San Antonio
-------------------------------------------------
> From: Bill Marvel
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aeroquip bends
>
>
> Harry:
>
> Take a deep breath. It ain't that bad...
>
> FWIW, I have a VM1000 in my 8A. I mounted the flowmeter downstream of
> both the electrical and mechanical fuel pumps, just before the carb. It is
> attached to the engine mount with adel clamps and a long, gradual-looping fuel
line
> leads to it in order to have a six inch (or so) straight run into the meter.
It is
> about three inches above the carb inlet and works fine.---------snip
>
> Bill Marvel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Modular Instrument Panel |
Nice. The web site mentions it supports RV-7 and RV-9 sliders. How about
tip-ups?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (wings 99.9999% running out of 9s)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
>
> I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have
called
> me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel, after
it
> was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27.
>
> As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our orders.
> The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site
> http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in
> place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of
the
> questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone
who
> has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it
> better.
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Fabian Lefler
> RV-9A (90292)
> N292FL (Reserved)
> fablef(at)bellsouth.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Modular Instrument Panel |
Dan,
No tip-ups, yet.
The main advantage of my Modular Panel is the accessibility is provides to
the back of the instruments and/or the avionics stack, if needed. Another
advantage is that major panel layouts changes, say going from steam gauges
to a Blue Mountain or alike, can be easily accomplished by replacing the
panel plates. For the tip-ups, accessibility to the back of the panel is
not an issue, so I didn't think that enough builders would be interested in
spending the extra money for just one advantage. That may change though.
To give you an idea how inexpensive it is to change the layout of an
airplane with this modular system, I sell replacement plates for the left
side (pilot) for $80 and the right side (co-pilot) for $60. So if a builder
ever decides to replace their steam gauges for a $10,000 Blue Mountain
system, they'll have to allocate an additional $80.00 and/or $60 for the
plate. Kidding aside, the big advantage is that the cutting, fiddling and
painting of the replacement plate can be accomplished at the shop, while the
airplane remains flying. Very little downtime.
Regards,
Fabian
RV-9A (90292)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV7-List: Re: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "Dan Checkoway"
>
> Nice. The web site mentions it supports RV-7 and RV-9 sliders. How about
> tip-ups?
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (wings 99.9999% running out of 9s)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Fabian Lefler" <fablef(at)bellsouth.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Modular Instrument Panel
>
>
> >
> > I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank all of you whom have
> called
> > me and/or e-mailed me to inquire about my Modular Instrument Panel,
after
> it
> > was featured on Doug Reeeve's website on August 27.
> >
> > As promised, the website is ready and we have started filling our
orders.
> > The website is being held, temporarily, at a remote site
> > http://www.rdwy.com/affordablepanels/ until on-line ordering is put in
> > place. The website content has been designed to answer the majority of
> the
> > questions we have received. However, we would like to hear from anyone
> who
> > has visited the website and has additional input as to how to make it
> > better.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> >
> > Fabian Lefler
> > RV-9A (90292)
> > N292FL (Reserved)
> > fablef(at)bellsouth.net
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:55:04 -0700
Very well put! Actually wheel-landing can be made much shorter than
three-points. As the mains touch down, apply full brake and full forward
stick. The plane stops pretty quickly. Come to think of it, the same
technique will work from a three-point attitude!
Disclaimer for the humor-impaired: That was a joke.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Scott:
Yes this does work and makes for a very SHORT landing. My question is what
do you do when you want to use the airplane over again? :-)
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Well the way some of the pilots around here fly you'd think they were Dixie
cups. You prang one you just go get (or build in our case) another one!
All kidding aside I actually did see that very technique in print albeit in
more detail in one of the local aviation rags. The gentleman that wrote the
article actually espoused wheel landings, hard on the brake, and stick
forward for short field landings. Now there may be pilots out there that
can actually do that without harming the airplane but I'm not one of them.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: RV6 Flyer [mailto:rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com>
Date: Thu, 5 Sep 2002 07:55:04 -0700
Very well put! Actually wheel-landing can be made much shorter than
three-points. As the mains touch down, apply full brake and full forward
stick. The plane stops pretty quickly. Come to think of it, the same
technique will work from a three-point attitude!
Disclaimer for the humor-impaired: That was a joke.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Scott:
Yes this does work and makes for a very SHORT landing. My question is what
do you do when you want to use the airplane over again? :-)
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,180 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> |
I was riding along with a friend in a pressurized Baron a few weeks ago.
Noticed that on one of the engines, somewhere around 15-19 thousand feet
(don't remember exactly ... we were headed to FL210) there were fluctuations
on the fuel flow/pressure(??) on the right engine. VERY soon thereafter it
got a bit rough and he quicked turned the boost pumps back on. Everything
was fine thereafter.
Your mileage may vary but I made a mental note that when the RV flies, I
need to be prepared to have on a boost pump up around 12000. Just in case.
Of course your situation could have been something TOTALLY different.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of flamini2
> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2002 8:21 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: Vapor lock
>
>
> Tim Barnes
> i had the same problem in July, here is the post:
>
> > i flew from Chicago to St Louis yesterday in 90 deg humid and hazy
> > conditions. No problems on the way there but on the return i decided
> to
> > climb to 14,500' to get on top of the haze and avoid towering Q's in
> the
> > area. While climbing with fuel injected 0-360 and mech pump the engine
> > quit at about 13,000' and i had to turn the boost pump on to get it to
> > run. i leveled off at 14,500 and continued on with the boost pump and
> > dialed in the nearest airports on the way. i tried to turn off the
> boost
> > twice with same results. The third time it ran ok on the mech pump and
> i
> > continued home without any problems. Has anyone else had this problem?
> i
> > am thinking it was the heat and altitude that vapor locked the mech
> > pump. N564DF race #53 Chicago.
> > Dennis and Fran
> >
> it had 100oct avgas, the mech pump is 34 years old along with the rest
> of the aircraft.This has not happened before or after the above flight.
>
>
> You can see a photo of my system at
>
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/flamini@home.com/N4JB-Servo.jpg
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
First, sorry for taking up bandwidth with a personal problem. This is
perhaps a long shot but thought I would give it a try.
I recently had my Hartzell c/s prop on my RV-4 condemned--got caught up
in Service Bulletin 227, then the prop shop determined that my blades
were out of limits on width and length (this was an old prop!). So...I
just ordered a new C2YL prop (the one for the Lycoming O-320) from
Van's. Problem is my projected delivery is Nov 1st. What I am
wondering is if there is anyone out there who has this prop on order
from Van's who might want to trade slots, assuming you are not quite
ready for your prop. If you are getting your prop soon and want to
help, please contact me off line or call Barbara at Van's. Otherwise
I'm looking at about 2 months down time!
If someone comes forward, I will let everyone know all the details of
how the "list" once again come to the rescue! Thanks.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs
O-320, Hartzell C/S (broke)
RV-6, N44PH, 30 hrs
O-360, Hartzell C/S
Vero Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
Well, I can't keep my fingers off the keyboard any longer.
A couple of years ago, we did a test with a 180-hp/wood prop RV-4.
It was conducted at a grass strip with a tall barn sitting right across the
country road from the threshold of the strip. It's roof was different
colours from all the patches required after aircraft had run into it.The
test was to see which would give the shortest landing distance-three point
or wheel landing. There was two of us on board.
The need to keep a little airspeed cushion in reserve to flare this
short-span wing I feel skewed the results a little, in that the other
characteristic of the wing seems to be a pronounced ground cushion.
The technique which resulted in the shortest runway used was a slightly
faster approach, very slight nose-up input to stop the descent, then raise
the tail when the mains touched almost immediately thereafter and get on the
brakes firmly. It does look a little odd to see the nose lower than usual,
but the air hitting the empennage seems to keep it from nosing over-even
full forward stick partway through the landing roll wouldn't raise the tail
any further, but just allow a gentle settling of the tail onto the grass.
The three-point technique I used was to approach at a slower speed, idle
power passing over the barn, flare to a three-point attitude( the need to
use almost full-back stick to effect this I thought meant the approach speed
was right at the minimum acceptable) and wait....... until it ran out of
airspeed and settled onto the ground without any flying speed left; then
jump on the brakes.
In summary, the uniquely short-span, wide-chord wing used on the RV's gives
a different reponse on approach and landing from any other aircraft. The
ability to decide that,"I'm touching down right here" when using the
wheel-landing technique makes this the better choice than the long float to
wait for the ground cushion to dissipate-if the minimum ground run is the
goal.
There, now I feel better.....
Scott in VAncouver!
Gimme a minute to put on my Nomex flying suit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Subject: RV-List: landings
>
> I must be missing something here regarding crosswind landings... my RV-4
(and every other plane I've flown) would make a wing low, full stall landing
just fine. Who says you can only have wing low, wheel landings???? Don't
believe them!
>
> OTOH, my RV-4 also made nice wheel landings. The wheel landings had 2
advantages in the RV-4, which is a tail heavy creature when built with a
wood prop:
> 1) the landings were easier when Bubba was in the back. Tail heavy
loading made for a bouncy full stall landing.
> 2) when I wanted to stop in the least possible distance, I made a normal
approach until the wheels touched, pushed the stick forward, and got on the
brakes. Easy to stop quick with a bit of practice. The nose low attitude
is a bit unusual at first though.
>
> However,I still don't think that wheel landings and crosswinds are
necessarily codependent!
>
> YMMV,
>
> Vince
> F-1H Rocket
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jose del Peso <JDELPESO(at)teleline.es> |
| Subject: | Performance of the RV8 with a TAE 125 engine (135 HP) |
.
>So, can someone estimate the following performance:
>-Cruise speed at 8000 feet (125,110 and 90 HP).
>-Rate of climb S.L.( 1400 and 1800 lbs).
>-Take-off distance S.L. (1400 and 1800 lbs.)
Kevin wrote:
According the numbers on Van's web site for various power settings, I
predict the following cruise speeds at 8000 ft at 1800 lb weight,
with a prop that has the same efficiency as the Hartzell that Van
used:
power speed speed speed
(hp) (mph) (kt) (km/h)
125 195 170 314
110 187 163 301
90 175 152 281
Take-off and climb performance are a bit harder to predict. How much
power do you expect the engine to produce during take-off and climb?
Maximum continuos power is 135 hp from sea level to 6000 feet. Above
6000 feet is 125hp. We can expect 80% of prop efficiency.
Thanks Kevin
Jose del Peso
RV8 80981
Madrid (Spain)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | RV-List TFR's in the northeast |
Caution when flying your RV's. (Now this is RV relevant)
Its interesting that rental trucks weren't treated like this when they
were twice used in bombings( Oak City Morrow building anf the WTC in
'93)
>FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
>
>An electronic version of this news
>release is available via the
>World Wide Web at
>http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/index.cfm
>>
>APA 38-02
>September 5, 2002
>Contact: William Shumann
>Phone: 202-267-3883
>
>Flying Restrictions for September 11 Events Announced
>
>WASHINGTON The U. S. Department of
>Transportations Transportation
>Security Administration (TSA) and
>Federal Aviation Administration (FAA)
>announced today temporary flight
>restrictions (TFRs) that will be in
>effect on September 11, 2002. These
>restrictions will be in effect in
>connection with public events that day
>in New York, Washington, DC and
>Somerset, PA.
>
>During those times, there will be
>extensive limits on flying within a 30-
>nautical-mile (34.5-statute-mile)
>radius of the event sites at altitudes
>below 18,000 feet. For airline flights
>into and out of all airports in these
>areas, the 30-minute seat rule will
>be in effect. That means all
>passengers must remain seated for 30
>minutes after takeoff and for 30
>minutes prior to landing. This same
>rule has been in effect for flights at
>Reagan Washington National Airport
>since last October.
>
>General aviation or private flying will
>be banned or, in some cases, limited to
>aircraft on Instrument Flight Rules
>(IFR) flight plans, which must be filed
>at least six hours before takeoff.
>Sightseeing and training flights are
>banned, as are all Visual Flight Rules
>(VFR) flights.
>
>Special air traffic management
>procedures will be in effect for all
>flights in these areas, including
>foreign airlines.
>
>In the New York area, these
>restrictions will be in effect from 7
>a.m. on September 11 until 8 p.m. on
>September 13. There will be no general
>aviation flying in the TFR area before,
>during and after public outdoor events
>on those three days. At other times,
>general aviation flying will be limited
>to IFR operations. The 30th and 34th
>Street heliports in Manhattan will have
>limited flying during the public
>outdoor events. Times for these events
>will be announced later. For pilots,
>the center of the 30-nautical-mile TFR
>will be the Ground Zero site.
>
>In the Washington area, the
>restrictions will be in effect from
>8:30 a.m. until 11 a.m. on September
>11. The Washington Monument will be
>the center of the TFR. There will be
>no flying over or near the Pentagon
>ceremony, and use of Runway 15/33 at
>Reagan Washington National Airport will
>be restricted. IFR general aviation
>flying will be permitted in the outer
>area of the TFR zone, not less than 15
>miles from the Washington Monument.
>All general aviation flying continues
>to be prohibited within a 15-statute-
>mile radius of the Washington
>Monument.
>
>In Somerset, PA, the TFR will be
>centered on the ceremony site, near the
>location of the crash of United Air
>Lines Flight 93. There will be no
>flying over or near the ceremony.
>
>An interagency working group that
>included the Office of Homeland
>Security, North American Aerospace
>Defense Command, US Secret Service and
>the Department of State, as well as TSA
>and FAA, developed these restrictions.
>
> ###
>
>An electronic version of this news
>release is available via the
>World Wide Web at
>http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/index.cfm
>
>
>____________________________________________________________
>To unsubscribe from this list please visit:
>
>http://www.faa.gov/apa/pr/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
09/05/2002 02:13:52 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/05/2002 02:13:52 PM
Because you can't see a DANG thing in front of you from the back seat of a
Stearman! (BTW, I usually 3 point land it)
Scott
Jerry Springer
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/04/2002 06:13 PM
Please respond to rv-list
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
do it?
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Combs" <jimc(at)mail.infra-read.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Center of Gravity |
I am new to this (Read First time builder!).
Having finished the rudder, I thought I might check out the balance
to see where it's center of gravity was. While not yet painted,
it is aft of the pivot point for the hinge(Not really a hinge).
I looked through the plans and can't find any reference as to where
exactly the balance point of the rudder should be. So can anyone
tell me if the rudder is supposed to be perfectly balanced about the
pivot point of the hinge.
I was expecting the balance point to be forward of the hinge pivot
and after painting, the lead weight would be adjusted as appropriate.
At this point will I be adding weight or just leave it as is?
Thanks, Jim Combs
Working on elevators
RV-8A (Planning on Subaru Power)
Lexington, Ky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
Re my previous post on landings.
Please remember this was on grass- on pavement the mileage will be
different, especially with the amount of braking available. Also, the higher
landing speed in the wheel landing should cause a slight increase in tire
wear.
The wheel landing requires enough forward stick at touchdown to ensure the
angle of attack is reduced to zero or less. Doing so has the same effect of
raising the spoilers on the heavy iron- puts a lot of weight on the main
gear for more effective braking, as well as ensuring it won't go flying
again if it encounters a gust..Failure to achieve this attitude makes for an
exciting rollout as the aircraft will leap and hop about just as if it was
forced onto the ground too early during a three-point landing.
In my experience, those uncomfortable with wheel landings aren't getting the
lift off the wing after touchdown.
Yes, I know both landing techniques end up with a tail-down rollout anyways.
But, in a crosswind, the higher approach speed of the wheel landing means
less of a crab angle for the first portion, and less cross-controlling
required during the transition to a no-drift, no-crab touchdown.
And, with the wheel landing, the visibility over the nose is better for the
touchdown and far enough through the rollout that, by the time that big,
beautiful cowling comes up and pretty well erases the view ahead- at least
on my -6 while sitting on only a parachute-there's not enough kinetic energy
left for a ground loop anyways.
Scott in "VAncouver
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
I bought a CI-102 Marker Beacon antennae from Aircraft Spruce.
They are no help on questions. I called Comant and got the old "I'm away
from my desk or on the phone with another customer" routine.
I am making doublers for my antennaes.
Looking at the Commant Marker Beacon (CI-102) boat type:
There is either a small bolt, or a stud with a welded on nut on the
bottom of this unit that sticks out about 5/16" from the bottom of the
unit (as delivered) and approximately 1/2" cc with the nearest threaded
screw hole, on the narrow end.
I don't want to break it, by turning it in or out until I find out what
is it's purpose?
Any help out there?
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Access - slider |
Hi Martin,
I didn't see a response to your question so here goes...I did exactly this,
I even thought about doing 2 but ended up putting an access panel on just
one side between the windscreen and the firewall. I can send you a picture
if you need one. Let me know.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, N44PH, 30 hrs
O-360, Hartzell C/S
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Martin Hone" <martin.hone(at)tradergroup.com.au>
Subject: RV-List: Panel Access - slider
>
> I am contemplating cutting an access panel in the fwd top skin, just in
> front of the windscreen on the pilot's side, on my RV6. This will give
> me easy access to the rear of the firewall and the various electrical
> and brake fittings, including the brake reservoir, that will be a
> nightmare to get to after the top skin is rivetted in place.
>
> Is there a structural reason why I should not do this ?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Martin in Oz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
Barry,
I just looked in the Comant antenna book that shows your antenna, also has
mounting footprints and doublers depicted for the various antennas. I
believe that the stud you reference is for fine tuning the antenna to your
particular installation. However, I do not believe you will need to mess
with this since beacon transmitters are pretty overpowering anyway. I did
not bother to fine tune mine, and it works great. I think I have the same
antenna, mounted it out in my wingtip, on a shelf built on to the outboard
rib. Just allow a hole in your footprint for access to this adjustent stud
if you are mounting on the belly.
Hope this helps. Let me know if you need a fax of the applicable
information in the Comant book.
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, N44PH, 30 hrs
O-360, Hartzell C/S
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102
>
> I bought a CI-102 Marker Beacon antennae from Aircraft Spruce.
>
> They are no help on questions. I called Comant and got the old "I'm away
> from my desk or on the phone with another customer" routine.
>
> I am making doublers for my antennaes.
>
> Looking at the Commant Marker Beacon (CI-102) boat type:
>
> There is either a small bolt, or a stud with a welded on nut on the
> bottom of this unit that sticks out about 5/16" from the bottom of the
> unit (as delivered) and approximately 1/2" cc with the nearest threaded
> screw hole, on the narrow end.
>
> I don't want to break it, by turning it in or out until I find out what
> is it's purpose?
>
> Any help out there?
>
> Barry Pote RV9a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical Gyros For Sale |
I'm selling my two R.C. Allen 3 1/8" electrical gyros due to my latest panel
redesign. The DG and horizon have both been in service and run regularly
until being removed from my airplane two weeks ago. The DG was purchased on
9-21-01, the horizon on 8-28-00. The horizon has the 8 degree panel tilt
adjustment needed for RV's and is placarded as such by the manufacturer.
There is no manufacturer's warranty, although I will warranty each for
thirty days to allow the purchaser to inspect the instruments. Each is
supplied with the required connector, so all one has to do is splice the
power and ground wires. New price for these instruments is over $1,850 each.
I'm asking $1,500.00 each, buyer pays shipping.
E-mail me for any questions.
Jerry Carter
RV-8A
155 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter H. Blake" <pblake(at)epix.net> |
The possibility to rent hangar space at a good rate has come up at a class C
airspace airport near me. Is there any restriction to flying off the test
period on a new RV at such an airport? Thanks for your help.
Peter Blake
Pharmaceutical Performance Institute
60 Beverly Drive
Kintnersville, PA 18930
Office: (610) 847-8478
Fax: (610) 847-8160
e-Mail: pblake(at)epix.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Dipstick Question |
Jerry, I have only about 1/8" clearance at the same point you mention. Maybe
others will know if this is satisfactory.
Ron
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Calhoun
Subject: RE: RV-List: Dipstick Question
Jerry, I have the same engine and had to cut my plastic dipstick down. I'll
check it when I go to airport today.
Ron Calhoun
Rv-4 Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Isler
Subject: RV-List: Dipstick Question
A couple of years ago during the overhaul of my 0-320-E2D, I needed an oil
dipstick and the tube that screws into the oil sump because the core I
bought did not come with one. In my infinite wisdom, I called the salvage
yard and told them to send me the shortest one they had. Man it was great!
All metal (no plastic for me) and about 6 1/2 inches tall for the paltry sum
of $40.00. I cleaned it up, painted the housing Lycoming grey and the screw
cap industrial yellow. It really looked good safety wired to the sump.
Now fast forward. The engine was recently mounted to the airframe and at
first glance everything looked good. However when I tried to unscrew the
dipstick I realized that the dipstick housing is hard up against the
dynafocal mount tubing between the upper and lower engine mounts. Of course
this is unacceptable because the first engine start will probably break the
whole shebang out of the oil sump with a resultant loss of oil. What length
dipstick housing should I be using for an RV4? It looks like one about 2
inches longer will work but that will only give about 1/8 inch clearance
between the tube and engine mount. The reason I don't have clearance now is
because the housing is larger at the threaded area where the dipstick screws
in. Extending this area out a couple of inches will put the necked down
portion of the tube next to the mount thus providing a small amout of
clearance. Is this right? How much clearance do you need here? Do I need
more washers under the lower engine mounts? I have one big one on each side
between the mount and the bosses on the engine as per the directions. Can
someone tell me what length housing I need?
Jerry Isler
RV4 # 1070
N455J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
There might be someone that says it can't be done but 4 of our chapter
members have done it in last couple of years (MLI) We have had a couple of
RVs, a Cozy, and a L-29 jet do their test flying just this summer.
It is probably the best way to test fly as we have 11,000 E-W with a couple
of crossing runways that are both over a mile. All are paved. Full time
fire protection is an added bonus. Couple of the tower operators are
Chapter members.
If I remember right, the FAA inspector for one of the planes said the
builder would have to go to an un-controlled field to do their testing but
with a couple of phone calls, permission was granted. The field inspector
was uninformed. Obviously, the flights were done without interferring with
any of the scheduled airliners. Having some one looking out for you when you
are doing circles in the sky over a controlled airport doesn't hurt. Tower
has a direct line to the fire station. I'll bet they would race down the
runway after you if anything was out of the ordinary.
Good Luck as every FSDO makes their own interpretations. Remember every
flight after maintenance is a TEST flight.
Cy Galley
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter H. Blake" <pblake(at)epix.net>
Subject: RV-List: Flight testing
>
> The possibility to rent hangar space at a good rate has come up at a class
C
> airspace airport near me. Is there any restriction to flying off the test
> period on a new RV at such an airport? Thanks for your help.
>
> Peter Blake
> Pharmaceutical Performance Institute
> 60 Beverly Drive
> Kintnersville, PA 18930
>
> Office: (610) 847-8478
> Fax: (610) 847-8160
> e-Mail: pblake(at)epix.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Infamous WD-402/403 Fit |
In a message dated 9/4/2 9:20:22 PM, HalBenjamin(at)aol.com writes:
<>
Hal,
When I was at this point in building the 4, I had this problem, and called
Vans about it. The guy I talked to said to cut the weldment at the angle and
bend it to fit the angle of the longeron meeting it. I really did not want to
do it at first, but after thinking about it, when you attach it to the
longreon , it gets fastened on both sides of the angle, which makes it
rigid. Anyway, I did cut them. It worked for me, but it doesn't leave a lot
of edge distance for fasteners. Also, I drilled a hole at the end of the cut
and filed/sanded the edges very carefully.
That is just one way to do it, and you are the one who has to live with
it, so get other ideas and do what ever works for you. Good luck. Hope this
helps.
Pat Allender
RV-4 85 hr.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
"Van Artsdalen, Scott" wrote:
>
>
> Maybe I'm assuming too much. Is 1200' considered a short strip? Because
> those are the runway lengths I go into frequently. 3000' is long and
> luxurious in my opinion. Maybe that's why my instructors (and myself) are
> hung up on three-point full-stall landings. I've always treated every
> landing as a short field landing. Power-off approach too. However I will
> agree with Jerry and others who have said you can't fly every single
> airplane the same as all the others. Every airplane requires it's own
> specific technique and I am sooooo looking forward to figuring out my -4!!
>
Scott, you will get various opinions as to whether or not 1200' is a
short strip. After many, many operations from a one-way 1800' strip, it
is my opinion that 1200' is short! Yes, an RV with competent pilot can
operate out of 1200', especially if the approaches are low and
clear.......but you better not mess up because there isn't much room for
error.
By the way, I think you will find that the approaches to the short
strips will work much better is you carry some power. You will be able
to fly the RV slower and under better control if you master the art of
flying in the vicinity of the backside of the power curve. Once again,
you need to be familiar with your plane before attempting high
performance landings.
Obviously, the field elevation and temperatures are important, and since
you didn't mention elevation, I don't know if you are routinely landing
on a merely challenging 1200' near sea level, or a terrifying 1200' at
5000' MSL in the heat of summer!
I suggest you begin at the 3000' strip (you might even try some wheel
landings ) and then work toward the shorter strips. We had a local
RV-4 pilot (who flies his plane off his own 1800' strip) find out that
too much braking and lack of attention for a few moments on an 800'
strip will result in the need to straighten a prop, disassemble an
engine, and rebuild the wheel pants!
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | George Frost <ghfrost(at)earthlink.net> |
How do you hook up the flaps on an RV-6?
The actuator tube doesn't seem to want to go around the lower corner
of the fuselage.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
Peter:
Having gotten into, and won, a rip-roaring fight with FAA over flight test of my
8A, my guess is that a class C airport probably will not hack it.
The fact is that each FSDO has designated airports to be used for this purpose.
You can find out from them, or from a local DAR if you use one for your
airworthiness inspection, which airports are available. I can't say for certain
that a class C won't work, but I would be surprised if it did.
In any case, one phone call to your local FSDO ought to get you all the info you
need.
Bill Marvel
8A 130 hours, So. Calif.
"Peter H. Blake" wrote:
>
> The possibility to rent hangar space at a good rate has come up at a class C
> airspace airport near me. Is there any restriction to flying off the test
> period on a new RV at such an airport? Thanks for your help.
>
> Peter Blake
> Pharmaceutical Performance Institute
> 60 Beverly Drive
> Kintnersville, PA 18930
>
> Office: (610) 847-8478
> Fax: (610) 847-8160
> e-Mail: pblake(at)epix.net
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/5/02 9:30:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
ghfrost(at)earthlink.net writes:
<< How do you hook up the flaps on an RV-6?
The actuator tube doesn't seem to want to go around the lower corner
of the fuselage.
Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks,
George >>
You make a hideously ugly pair of holes (one on the left side, one on the
right) in the side/bottom of the fuselage. Start by holding the flap in the
retracted position then mark (on the fuselage) where the flap actuator would
have to penetrate the fuse to attach to the flap. Drill a hole in this
location. Might as well start with something big - say 3/8" - 1/2". Use a
file (a dremel might be better) to enlarge the hole so the actuator rod will
attach to the flap handle and the flap. Then enlarge the hole again (and
again, and again, and again) to allow full flap travel. It took me an entire
evening to create the holes on both sides of the fuselage.
In the end, the holes are oblong, or even slightly J shaped. They seem huge
and ugly after all the time you spent trying to build a pristine fuselage.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
> I bought a CI-102 Marker Beacon antennae from Aircraft Spruce.
>
> They are no help on questions. I called Comant and got the
> old "I'm away from my desk or on the phone with another
> customer" routine.
>
> I am making doublers for my antennaes.
>
Barry, I'm not directly answering your question, but offering something
to consider. Send the antenna back, and simply run your marker beacon
coax out to the wingtip, and attach it to a 41" long copper wire (I'm
going on memory here - check with others regarding the length). Glue it
down, or some other attachment, and you are good to go. No rocket
science with MB antennae.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 199 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> The fact is that each FSDO has designated airports to be used
> for this purpose. You can find out from them, or from a local
> DAR if you use one for your airworthiness inspection, which
> airports are available. I can't say for certain that a class
> C won't work, but I would be surprised if it did.
>
I'm sure there are many different schemes in place throughout the
country regarding this, but the main criterion I was told is in place
here in the Minneapolis area is how populated the area around the test
airport is. If class C airports were out in open country, they probably
could be used.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 199 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Center of Gravity |
>
>I am new to this (Read First time builder!).
>
>Having finished the rudder, I thought I might check out the balance
>to see where it's center of gravity was. While not yet painted,
>it is aft of the pivot point for the hinge(Not really a hinge).
>
>I looked through the plans and can't find any reference as to where
>exactly the balance point of the rudder should be. So can anyone
>tell me if the rudder is supposed to be perfectly balanced about the
>pivot point of the hinge.
>
>I was expecting the balance point to be forward of the hinge pivot
>and after painting, the lead weight would be adjusted as appropriate.
>At this point will I be adding weight or just leave it as is?
>
>Thanks, Jim Combs
>
>Working on elevators
>RV-8A (Planning on Subaru Power)
>Lexington, Ky
Van simply wants you to put in the specified lead weight and not
worry about it. He obviously believes that there is not a VS/rudder
flutter problem within his recommended VNE. I see no reason to doubt
his engineering.
So, I say stop worrying and move on.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tap and Die Questions... |
Howdy,
Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod. The
plans say to tap this for 1/4. It has a notation that also says
UNF-28..which I assume is some type of thread spacing?? My tap and die set
has a 1/4 inch tap (matching #7 drill bit and a notation on the unit that
says 1/4-20)?? I tried it once and it seems that when I tap it that the
threads are too far apart and wont work with the 1/4 rod end with a smaller
spacing. My guess is that I need a different tap with smaller spacing?? If
so...where would I get one of these...already tried the local Lowes, Home
Depot and Avery catalog. Thanks again for your help.
Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing...Finishing...Finishing....uggggg....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flutter (was: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT) |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Amen to Kevin's comments on flutter. It's a bit of a black art kinda
thing to predict accurately. Also a word of caution about Martin
Hollman....I have also attended one of his flutter seminars (several
years ago). While he has some good experience and knowledge, he had a
bad habit of publicly bashing other people without any real data to back
up his claims. For example he went on for some time about Vans' company
demonstrator RV-8 that lost it's wing....he claimed that it was aileron
flutter. He hypothesized that with a company pilot on board there's no
way they could have overstressed the wing and simply pulled the wings
off. Since the -8 had a new wing structure compared to the -4 and -6,
which could allow the wing to have a different resonant vibration
frequency, he decided that the accident was caused by high-speed
wing/aileron flutter that overloaded the wing and broke it off. He
claimed that he offered to do a free analysis for Van after the accident
using his self-proclaimed superior computer program to fix the "flutter
problem", and that Van refused his help and instead opted to retest the
wing for flutter using the "outdated" method used on spam cans were the
wing and control surfaces are excited (vibrated) on the ground and the
results analyzed by qualified DER's. After hearing him talk I'm not
surprised Van declined his offer to "help". After the forum I pressed
him on the issue asking him if he was convinced that flutter was the
problem on the -8, and he was willing to do the analysis for free, why
not do the analysis anyway and make it available to Van and -8 builders?
The data could then be analyzed by others, and either rejected or
accepted (and a fix to the wing implemented). He then stated that he'd
do the analysis but only if paid $5000 for it. He suggested that I
collect money from interested fellow builders to pay him for this task.
Any takers? I have a Paypal account, feel free to send all donations to
me : ) I just couldn't believe it....
On the subject of flutter though....the general rules of thumb to be on
the safe side are to build structures very stiff (carbon fiber rules in
this category), balance all control surfaces 100% around the hinge axis,
and use rigid control actuation systems (like push-pull tubes instead of
cables which have more slop). Good bearings at all locations (control
surface pivot points, pushrods and belcranks, etc) also helps. Note of
course that if you did all of this on most airplanes it would be
overkill...the RV for example does not have 100% balanced ailerons or
rudder and it does just fine. But it has been tested and analyzed
professionally to reduce the amount of weight forward of the hinge line
in the ailerons and rudder without allowing flutter. If you were to
build an airplane of your own design and don't have the knowledge or
tools to safely reduce the balance/stiffness/slop margins it would be
better to go the overkill route and stay on the safe side....
Over and out.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....finishing....finishing...canopy skirts....
_______
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>Don Mei wrote:
>
>>There has been a lot of theorizing going on
>and
There is a real way to test all this stuff that you all have been
>>discussing. DO IT.
>>No offense intended, but so often I hear people espousing theories when
all
>>they have to do is go out and fly it.
>
>We are best advised to take a position somewhere between endless
thinking
>and impetuous action.
>
>At Oshkosh (Airventure to you marketer victims) this year, I attended an
>interesting talk by Martin Hollman of Monterey California. He was
>discussing a computer system for flutter testing. He voiced a strong
>objection to those who want to jump in the plane and do the flutter
testing
>in the air. Several reasons. First, it allows for testing even before
the
>aircraft is built. Second, it saves pilots and airplanes.
>
>Test flights are made for testing, of course. What the finished
aircraft
>is expected to do should be proven during flight testing. Maybe they
>should be called 'proof flights'. Think, study, theorize until you are
>quite sure that the result of DO IT won't be the destruction of the rest
of
>your day.
>
>I wonder what happens if I dive to Vne then jerk the stick back? DON'T
TRY
>THIS AT ALL!
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
Flutter is still not as well understood as some of the aero
engineering guys like to think it is. They do ground vibration
testing to see the different modes of vibration, and measure the
natural frequency of each one. Then they do some analysis and
predict at what speed each type of flutter mode should be expected.
Then we go up and so some flight tests to see if they knew what they
were talking about. They often get it fairly close, but every once
in a while they really miss the mark. Boeing had flutter during
flight testing of a modified 707 (TACAMO program for the Navy) about
12 years ago. They lost half the vertical tail, if I recall
correctly. They rebuilt the plane, redid all their analysis, went
flying again and promptly lost half the tail again. If a company
with all their resources can't predict flutter, I question whether
Martin Hollman is going to get it right every time.
Fortunately we are building designs with a long history of
flutter-free flight. So, as long as we build per the plans, and
respect Van's recommended VNE, we should be OK.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
For another data point on Todd Silver's Canopies...personally I was happy
with his service, and the price too (as part of a group order I helped
organize a while back the discounted prices were pretty competitive with
the credit from Van's for omitting it from the finish kit...but as Todd
Wenzel points out shipping for Todd's Canopies is now additional and if
you aren't getting a group order discount it would not be a good deal
IMHO). The origninal post/question on this topic was regarding the
problem someone had with a Vans canopy being too short on the sides to
fit the frame. I thought I was going to have this problem with the
Todd's Canopy that I got....the sides come pre-trimmed, and for a while I
thought it had been trimmed too much. In the end after all the trimming
on the front and back of the canopy, mine fits on the sides....but just
*barely* with minimum edge distance. I would prefer to have a bit extra
there for insurance to keep the rivets from cracking to the canopy edge.
PRO's: The things that attracted me to get a Todd's Canopy was his free
replacement guarantee if you crack it during installation, and his
offering of 1/4" thickness which is noticably sturdier than the 3/16"
that Vans offers. As part of my "compensation" for helping get a group
order together, Todd sent me two canopies for the price of one. One is
1/4" and the other is 3/16". What I did is used the front half of the
1/4" for the windscreen (extra bird strike protection), and the back half
on the slider is 3/16" (to keep it light and make it easier to break out
of in an emergency compared to using 1/4" for the entire canopy). I am
very pleased with this setup so for me it was worthwhile to get it from
Todd Silver.
CON's: My canopy is perfectly clear--no tint at all. I would have
preferred a light tint like Vans canopies have, but the only tint offered
by Todd Silver is a much darker tint. Some builders wanted the darker
tint but for me it was too dark so I reluctantly settled for the clear.
The other concern I have is that on my 3/16" canopy, the sides at the
base of the canopy (where it rivets to the frame) have a *very slight*
distortion or "ripple effect" as you sight down the side of the canopy.
It appears that the clamping method Todd used involved multiple clamps in
the mold around the edges of the plexi, and on my canopy this resulted in
some distortion at the intersection of each clamp. Most of it is hidden
under the skirt, and as far as I can tell it isn't really noticeable from
sitting inside the cockpit looking out. But standing on the outside
looking down the side, or through the canopy at an angle, it is visible
if you look closely. Don't know if anyone else with a Todd's canopy has
the same thing and it's not a big enough deal to whine about much but I
think in this sense it is slightly inferior quality to what Vans offers.
BTW the view through the windscreen and general impression from inside
the cockpit is just fine.
Hope this feedback helps someone else make their decision. Unless you
really want a much darker tint, 1/4" thickness, or the replacement
guarantee, I'd keep things simple and just stick with the canopy Vans
ships with the finish kit....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D eternally finishing (when I can get away from fixing the flood
damage to my home....)
_______
Subject: RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
From: "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel@heartland-software.com>
<TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com>
My own experience from Todd Silver...good product, LOUSY SERVICE, ok
price. BTW, it will cost MORE to buy a "3rd party" canopy than you will
receive credit by excluding it from your finishing kit order. I don't
have the numbers in front of me, but I think the "credit" from vans was
around $325-$375, and the cost of the canopy and shipping from Todd
Silver will be well over $500. Remember that Todd's prices no longer
include shipping, so be prepared to add around $100 to $150 to his
prices.
Todd Wenzel
Delafield, WI USA
RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Larry Hawkins [mailto:lhawkins(at)giant.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
Look in the Yeller pages for Todd Silver, great product, great service
at a great price.
-----Original Message-----
From: glen j matejcek [mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com]
Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
-->
Howdy listers-
I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to
be able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources.
The recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about
other sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The
other question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks
in advance for any and all insights!
Glen
RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
In a message dated 9/5/02 11:28:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KAKlewin(at)aol.com
writes:
<< Howdy,
Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod. The
plans say to tap this for 1/4. It has a notation that also says
UNF-28..which I assume is some type of thread spacing?? My tap and die set
has a 1/4 inch tap (matching #7 drill bit and a notation on the unit that
says 1/4-20)?? I tried it once and it seems that when I tap it that the
threads are too far apart and wont work with the 1/4 rod end with a smaller
spacing. My guess is that I need a different tap with smaller spacing?? If
so...where would I get one of these...already tried the local Lowes, Home
Depot and Avery catalog. Thanks again for your help.
Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing...Finishing...Finishing....uggggg.... >>
You are correct, you need a different tap. It'll say 1/4 - 28 on the side.
Home Depot, Lowes, etc. usually carry a set of 6 or so cheapie taps with all
the sizes you'll need.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karied4(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Regarding RV-7A empennage parts with vinyl coating |
Regarding RV-7A empennage parts HS-411APP hinge brackets, HS-413 Hinge
brackets and the WD-605-R-1 elevator horn.
These parts are all coated with a vinyl or plastic. Does this coating
need to be removed and primed before installation?
I had read about aluminum vinyl coated parts like this but I'm not sure
if this is what they are talking about? I have seen web sites with
builders that left the coating on and some who removed or primed over
the coating. I'm not talking about the blue plastic over most of the
aluminum this is thick white or off white coating.
Thanks again for all the great help. Also if there are any RV-7 builders
in The Maple Valley, WA area that would like to compare notes (let me
look at your project) :-) then please e-mail me directly.
Karie Daniel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
Scott,
I suppose any strip that is shorter than what you've previously landed on
could be considered short. It's been my experience that 1200' is, indeed, a
pretty short landing field. Toss in some bushes or short trees at the
approach end or a little xwind and you've got you're work cut out for
yourself. I know all the stories about bush pilots and how they land in
less than 300' (or whatever distance the story teller cares to embellish)
but that's certainly not the norm.
The 1200' airports that you mention flying into, are they public use or
private?
I don't know about your area, but of the 272 public use airports within a
200nm radius of my home base, none are less than 1500' publish length. I'd
be curious to find a web site where I could look up and find how many public
airports have lengths of less than 1500' in the U.S. Maybe there is a site
where we can specify a search of all public airports greater than 1500' then
compare those results with a search of the total number of public use
airports in the U.S.
I think that would interesting.
Mike
>
> Maybe I'm assuming too much. Is 1200' considered a short strip? Because
> those are the runway lengths I go into frequently. 3000' is long and
> luxurious in my opinion. Maybe that's why my instructors (and myself) are
> hung up on three-point full-stall landings. I've always treated every
> landing as a short field landing. Power-off approach too. However I will
> agree with Jerry and others who have said you can't fly every single
> airplane the same as all the others. Every airplane requires it's own
> specific technique and I am sooooo looking forward to figuring out my -4!!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:33 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
> My feelings exactly Sam. Although not flying the RV yet, I rarely land
the
> Stinson in 3 points unless I'm going into a very short field. When
getting
> my tailwheel training about 250 hours ago my instructor didn't want me
even
> playing around with 3 pointers. In fact, in all of my 5 hours of
tailwheel
> instruction I don't recall even performing a "wheel" landing.
>
> However, when the time comes to get into that 1200' strip you need to
> pointed with nose to the air and praying to the God of Landings (at least
in
> the Stinson by this inexperienced tailwheel pilot).
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Georgetown, TX
> Fuselage
> RV6 N699BM Reserved
> 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
> >
> >
> > Jerry Springer wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going.
> :)
> > > Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
> discussing
> > > RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point
> landings"
> > > very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that
their
> > > airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone
should
> land
> > > the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in
> landing
> > > techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone
from
> Van's
> > > can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and
rear
> > > fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> > > wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
> attitude,
> > > I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and
hold
> > > that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you
> guys that
> > > believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are
> going to
> > > hit the tailwheel first.
> > > Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> > > of them and well never really learn the full ability of their
airplane.
> > > I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> > > someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is
> afraid
> > > of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts
on
> > > this subject.
> > > One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> > > main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> > > do it?
> > > Jerry
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
> > make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
> > it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
> > even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
> > long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
> > meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
> > inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
> > other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
> > wheels. It looked so...........good!
> >
> > It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> > then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
> > stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
> > the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
> >
> > Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
> >
> > There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
> > hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
> > as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
> > the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
> > three-pointer.
> >
> > I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
> > have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
> > maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
> > runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
> >
> > No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
> > with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
> >
> > I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
> > white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
> > class medical????
> >
> > Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
> >
> > Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flight testing |
While waiting for "Das Fed" to throw his .02 in on this, I'll suggest NOT
calling the FSDO yet, but first cast around and see if you can find anyone
else in your area that's had experience with them and specifically whether
anyone else has flight-tested a homebuilt out of your airport, and who they
dealt with. What you don't want is to get some guy on the phone who says
"absolutely NOT" and then find out later he's some bozo who doesn't know
what he's talking about, and the guy at the next desk is the one you really
needed to talk to but the first guy is now digging in his heels so as not to
be proven wrong.
This is not necessarily from experience but I know how bureaucracies can be.
Reconnoiter first, then make your move.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Tap and Die Questions... |
Howdy yerself! The easiest solution is to buy the "new" octagonal
pre-threaded rods from Van's. They are MUCH beefier than the others,
although I think the tubes work just fine.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6, Minnepolis,
Waiting on the FAA.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of KAKlewin(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
Howdy,
Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod. The
plans say to tap this for 1/4. It has a notation that also says
UNF-28..which I assume is some type of thread spacing?? My tap and die set
has a 1/4 inch tap (matching #7 drill bit and a notation on the unit that
says 1/4-20)?? I tried it once and it seems that when I tap it that the
threads are too far apart and wont work with the 1/4 rod end with a smaller
spacing. My guess is that I need a different tap with smaller spacing?? If
so...where would I get one of these...already tried the local Lowes, Home
Depot and Avery catalog. Thanks again for your help.
Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing...Finishing...Finishing....uggggg....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Regarding RV-7A empennage parts with vinyl coating |
What you're seeing is the powder coating. It's (arguably) probably the best
coating you can have on your steel parts. Leave it there and just install
the parts, no other treatment is necessary at this point.
Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
Georgetown, TX
Fuselage
RV6 N699BM Reserved
1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
>
> Regarding RV-7A empennage parts HS-411APP hinge brackets, HS-413 Hinge
> brackets and the WD-605-R-1 elevator horn.
>
> These parts are all coated with a vinyl or plastic. Does this coating
> need to be removed and primed before installation?
>
> I had read about aluminum vinyl coated parts like this but I'm not sure
> if this is what they are talking about? I have seen web sites with
> builders that left the coating on and some who removed or primed over
> the coating. I'm not talking about the blue plastic over most of the
> aluminum this is thick white or off white coating.
>
> Thanks again for all the great help. Also if there are any RV-7 builders
> in The Maple Valley, WA area that would like to compare notes (let me
> look at your project) :-) then please e-mail me directly.
>
> Karie Daniel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Performance of the RV8 with a TAE 125 engine (135 HP) |
>.
>>So, can someone estimate the following performance:
>>-Cruise speed at 8000 feet (125,110 and 90 HP).
>>-Rate of climb S.L.( 1400 and 1800 lbs).
>>-Take-off distance S.L. (1400 and 1800 lbs.)
>
>Kevin wrote:
>According the numbers on Van's web site for various power settings, I
>predict the following cruise speeds at 8000 ft at 1800 lb weight,
>with a prop that has the same efficiency as the Hartzell that Van
>used:
>
>power speed speed speed
> (hp) (mph) (kt) (km/h)
> 125 195 170 314
> 110 187 163 301
> 90 175 152 281
>
>
>Take-off and climb performance are a bit harder to predict. How much
>power do you expect the engine to produce during take-off and climb?
Jose wrote:
>Maximum continuos power is 135 hp from sea level to 6000 feet. Above
>6000 feet is 125hp. We can expect 80% of prop efficiency.
>Thanks Kevin
>
>Jose del Peso
OK, I guess I should have read the subject line of your first message
a bit more closely :)
Climb - I tried to calculate predicted climb rates a couple of
different ways, but got different answers each way. So, I decided to
keep it simple and take a close look at the data on Van's web site.
Van gives climb performance predictions for 160, 180 and 200 hp
engines. If you plot the rate of climb against power, the points
fall on a straight line, which is what you would expect, if the prop
efficiency was the same for each point.
If I assume you will get the same prop efficiency with the MT as
Van's Hartzell during the climbs, I predict a rate of climb at sea
level of about 1090 ft/min at 1800 lb and about 1560 ft/min at 1400
lb.
Take-off - At a given weight, the take-off distance should be
approximately inversely proportional to the excess power, assuming
the prop efficiency stays the same. So, based on Van's data for 200
hp, because that is what his tests were done with, I predict a
take-off distance of approximately 800 ft at 1800 lb and 400 ft at
1400 lb. Note: I added a small "fudge factor", as the inversely
proportional rule isn't exactly true here.
You might be very happy with the performance, as long as you never
took a flight in an RV with a more powerful engine.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
----- Original Message -----
From: <KAKlewin(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
>
> Howdy,
>
> Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
> working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod.
The
> plans say to tap this for 1/4. It has a notation that also says
> UNF-28..which I assume is some type of thread spacing?? My tap and die
set
> has a 1/4 inch tap (matching #7 drill bit and a notation on the unit that
> says 1/4-20)?? I tried it once and it seems that when I tap it that the
> threads are too far apart and wont work with the 1/4 rod end with a
smaller
> spacing. My guess is that I need a different tap with smaller spacing??
If
> so...where would I get one of these...already tried the local Lowes, Home
> Depot and Avery catalog. Thanks again for your help.
>
> Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing...Finishing...Finishing....uggggg....
Kurt: You have identified the distinction between these taps. The -20
and -28 stand for the number of threads per inch of length for each. The
tap drill size is intended to result in a specific percentage of a full
thread and my info card calls for a number 8 for the 1/4-28 tap and a number
3 for the 1/4-20. There is only .002" difference between the #7 and #8 so
either should be fine. Most good hardware stores should have what you need
and certainly any mill supply house would have it. The "Standard Aircraft
Handbook" has a lot of information on such things and I recommend you obtain
a copy.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Kohser" <dckoh(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
Ace hardware also sells individual taps, about $3.00 each.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
>
> In a message dated 9/5/02 11:28:34 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
KAKlewin(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> << Howdy,
>
> Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
> working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod.
The
> plans say to tap this for 1/4. It has a notation that also says
> UNF-28..which I assume is some type of thread spacing?? My tap and die
set
> has a 1/4 inch tap (matching #7 drill bit and a notation on the unit that
> says 1/4-20)?? I tried it once and it seems that when I tap it that the
> threads are too far apart and wont work with the 1/4 rod end with a
smaller
> spacing. My guess is that I need a different tap with smaller spacing??
If
> so...where would I get one of these...already tried the local Lowes, Home
> Depot and Avery catalog. Thanks again for your help.
>
> Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing...Finishing...Finishing....uggggg.... >>
>
> You are correct, you need a different tap. It'll say 1/4 - 28 on the
side.
> Home Depot, Lowes, etc. usually carry a set of 6 or so cheapie taps with
all
> the sizes you'll need.
>
> Kyle Boatright
> 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
> Kennesaw, GA
> http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
THanks for that input. I didn't know it was that simple. I see nothing
in the archives about that.
Barry
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
> > I bought a CI-102 Marker Beacon antennae from Aircraft Spruce.
> >
> > They are no help on questions. I called Comant and got the
> > old "I'm away from my desk or on the phone with another
> > customer" routine.
> >
> > I am making doublers for my antennaes.
> >
>
> Barry, I'm not directly answering your question, but offering something
> to consider. Send the antenna back, and simply run your marker beacon
> coax out to the wingtip, and attach it to a 41" long copper wire (I'm
> going on memory here - check with others regarding the length). Glue it
> down, or some other attachment, and you are good to go. No rocket
> science with MB antennae.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 199 hours
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
I was told that 2000 feet was the minimun that you could get insurance, IF
that was your hopme base.
Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club
Newsletter Editor & EAA TC
www.bellanca-championclub.com
We support Aeroncas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
> Scott,
>
> I suppose any strip that is shorter than what you've previously landed on
> could be considered short. It's been my experience that 1200' is, indeed,
a
> pretty short landing field. Toss in some bushes or short trees at the
> approach end or a little xwind and you've got you're work cut out for
> yourself. I know all the stories about bush pilots and how they land in
> less than 300' (or whatever distance the story teller cares to embellish)
> but that's certainly not the norm.
>
> The 1200' airports that you mention flying into, are they public use or
> private?
>
> I don't know about your area, but of the 272 public use airports within a
> 200nm radius of my home base, none are less than 1500' publish length.
I'd
> be curious to find a web site where I could look up and find how many
public
> airports have lengths of less than 1500' in the U.S. Maybe there is a
site
> where we can specify a search of all public airports greater than 1500'
then
> compare those results with a search of the total number of public use
> airports in the U.S.
>
> I think that would interesting.
>
> Mike
> >
> > Maybe I'm assuming too much. Is 1200' considered a short strip?
Because
> > those are the runway lengths I go into frequently. 3000' is long and
> > luxurious in my opinion. Maybe that's why my instructors (and myself)
are
> > hung up on three-point full-stall landings. I've always treated every
> > landing as a short field landing. Power-off approach too. However I
will
> > agree with Jerry and others who have said you can't fly every single
> > airplane the same as all the others. Every airplane requires it's own
> > specific technique and I am sooooo looking forward to figuring out
my -4!!
> >
> > --
> > Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> > Network Administrator
> > Union Safe Deposit Bank
> > 209-946-5116
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com]
> > Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:33 PM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
> >
> >
> > My feelings exactly Sam. Although not flying the RV yet, I rarely land
> the
> > Stinson in 3 points unless I'm going into a very short field. When
> getting
> > my tailwheel training about 250 hours ago my instructor didn't want me
> even
> > playing around with 3 pointers. In fact, in all of my 5 hours of
> tailwheel
> > instruction I don't recall even performing a "wheel" landing.
> >
> > However, when the time comes to get into that 1200' strip you need to
> > pointed with nose to the air and praying to the God of Landings (at
least
> in
> > the Stinson by this inexperienced tailwheel pilot).
> >
> > Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> > Georgetown, TX
> > Fuselage
> > RV6 N699BM Reserved
> > 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Jerry Springer wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion
going.
> > :)
> > > > Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
> > discussing
> > > > RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three
point
> > landings"
> > > > very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that
> their
> > > > airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone
> should
> > land
> > > > the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in
> > landing
> > > > techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone
> from
> > Van's
> > > > can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and
> rear
> > > > fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> > > > wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
> > attitude,
> > > > I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and
> hold
> > > > that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for
you
> > guys that
> > > > believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are
> > going to
> > > > hit the tailwheel first.
> > > > Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> > > > of them and well never really learn the full ability of their
> airplane.
> > > > I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> > > > someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is
> > afraid
> > > > of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts
> on
> > > > this subject.
> > > > One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> > > > main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> > > > do it?
> > > > Jerry
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession
to
> > > make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't
think
> > > it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
> > > even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
> > > long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it
was
> > > meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
> > > inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
> > > other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the
main
> > > wheels. It looked so...........good!
> > >
> > > It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> > > then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
> > > stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you
have
> > > the chance to do another......then
another.....then...........another!!
> > >
> > > Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
> > >
> > > There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from
that
> > > hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my
direction
> > > as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
> > > the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in
a
> > > three-pointer.
> > >
> > > I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
> > > have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
> > > maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
> > > runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
> > >
> > > No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
> > > with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
> > >
> > > I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
> > > white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my
third
> > > class medical????
> > >
> > > Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
> > >
> > > Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate canopies |
I went with one of Todd's . . . got the slightly thicker, tinted canopy.
Fit well, looks dayam good.
Rick Jory RV8A
----- Original Message -----
From: glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
>
> Howdy listers-
>
> I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to be
> able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources. The
> recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about other
> sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
> advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The other
> question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks in
> advance for any and all insights!
>
> Glen
> RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
Is the "Standard Aircraft Handbook" available on the web for download? In
RV Yeller Pages in hard copy or CD format?
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KAKlewin(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
>
>
> >
> > Howdy,
> >
> > Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
> > working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod.
> The
> > plans say to tap this for 1/4. It has a notation that also says
> > UNF-28..which I assume is some type of thread spacing?? My tap and die
> set
> > has a 1/4 inch tap (matching #7 drill bit and a notation on the unit
that
> > says 1/4-20)?? I tried it once and it seems that when I tap it that the
> > threads are too far apart and wont work with the 1/4 rod end with a
> smaller
> > spacing. My guess is that I need a different tap with smaller spacing??
> If
> > so...where would I get one of these...already tried the local Lowes,
Home
> > Depot and Avery catalog. Thanks again for your help.
> >
> > Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing...Finishing...Finishing....uggggg....
>
> Kurt: You have identified the distinction between these taps. The -20
> and -28 stand for the number of threads per inch of length for each. The
> tap drill size is intended to result in a specific percentage of a full
> thread and my info card calls for a number 8 for the 1/4-28 tap and a
number
> 3 for the 1/4-20. There is only .002" difference between the #7 and #8 so
> either should be fine. Most good hardware stores should have what you
need
> and certainly any mill supply house would have it. The "Standard Aircraft
> Handbook" has a lot of information on such things and I recommend you
obtain
> a copy.
>
> Gordon Comfort
> N363GC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
Yep - Kyle is exactly right. I looked at countless pictures of RV-6(a)'s on
the internet before I finally accepted the fact that I actually had to make
some ugly holes in the sides of my fuselage. They are covered up when the
flaps are up. Like Kyle, I used a 3/8" bit to start the hole and then used
a uni-bit to open it gradually until the flaps could make there full travel
up and down without the flap rod touching anything. I then made sure there
was an extra 1/8" clearance. I found that I could actually open the hole in
the direction wanted using the uni-bit in a variable speed drill and
holding some pressure in the direction that I wanted to go. Works great.
Finish the hole edges to smooth with a small scotchbrite wheel in a die
grinder.
I know it hurts but everyone has to do it. The best remedy is an ice cold
beer when you are finished.
Happy building,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (Sold)
Glastar (Empennage)
www.ericsrv6a.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps
>
> In a message dated 9/5/02 9:30:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> ghfrost(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
> << How do you hook up the flaps on an RV-6?
> The actuator tube doesn't seem to want to go around the lower corner
> of the fuselage.
> Any help would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> George >>
>
> You make a hideously ugly pair of holes (one on the left side, one on the
> right) in the side/bottom of the fuselage. Start by holding the flap in
the
> retracted position then mark (on the fuselage) where the flap actuator
would
> have to penetrate the fuse to attach to the flap. Drill a hole in this
> location. Might as well start with something big - say 3/8" - 1/2".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
Hi Kurt,
I looked at these with and didn't like the small size for the job they are
doing. I bought the required tap at the local Home Depot and tried to drill
the rod out to the correct size and then tap the holes. The result was
unacceptable (I got it crooked).
I ended up tossing the ones Vans sent me and went with the ones they make
for the 9(a) kits. These are an octoganal shaped push rod that has already
been pre-threaded for you. Call Van's and they will know what you want and
the right stock number. They told me that a lot of builders were calling
and ordering these. The new ones are slightly long for the 6 but taking some
off each end with a hacksay leaves plenty of thread.
These look much stronger to me and I felt better having these pushing my
flaps down that the puny looking rods that I got with the kit. Thats my
opinion however. There was a lot of back and forth discussion on this list
about the strength of the original ones Van's sent with the 6(a) kits. You
can probably find it in the archives and decide for yourself.
Regards,
Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
RV-6A N57ME (Sold)
Glastar (Empennage)
www.ericsrv6a.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <KAKlewin(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
> Im currently getting things together to do some wing fitting and am
> working on manufacturing the F-659 (I believe)...the flap actuator rod.
The
> plans say to tap this for 1/4.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sjhdcl(at)kingston.net |
| Subject: | More Tap and Die Questions... |
I found when taping my flap control arms, the outside of the aluminum tubing
bulged a bit. I've ordered several more pieces and I'll try it again but did
others find this?
Steve
RV7A
misc fuse stuff
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate canopies |
BTW, when I cut the windshield from the canopy of the Van's part on my 8A, I was
so shocked I called the factory to make sure I wasn't hallucinating. The edge
of the windshield (the part that sees the 200 mph wind blast), was well less
than 1/8 inch thick. It looked so thin that I was hesitant to trust it.
The response was that the curvature of the plexi and the support it received
from the bow and bonding to the forward panel made it very strong and stiff.
They also said that I could get a thicker canopy from other suppliers if I so
choose.
Have been to 10 knots below red line and it is still there. Have not hit any
geese, however...
Bill Marvel
ready to duck and cover at any moment
Rick Jory wrote:
>
> I went with one of Todd's . . . got the slightly thicker, tinted canopy.
> Fit well, looks dayam good.
> Rick Jory RV8A
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
>
> >
> > Howdy listers-
> >
> > I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to be
> > able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources. The
> > recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about other
> > sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
> > advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The other
> > question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks in
> > advance for any and all insights!
> >
> > Glen
> > RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
> >
> >
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Tap and Die Questions... |
Steve:
I do not recall encountering this on my 8A. It sounds as though the pilot hole
you drilled for the tap may have been too small. This would allow the tap to
push the walls outboard.
Recheck the drill size called out for the tap and that the drill you have is the
correct one. Put on those reading glasses and use a drill index as a backup.
This should not happen.
Bill Marvel
8A 130 hours So Cal.
sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote:
>
> I found when taping my flap control arms, the outside of the aluminum tubing
> bulged a bit. I've ordered several more pieces and I'll try it again but did
> others find this?
>
> Steve
> RV7A
> misc fuse stuff
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Regarding RV-7A empennage parts with vinyl coating |
In a message dated 9/5/2002 10:58:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
mike(at)bmnellis.com writes:
> What you're seeing is the powder coating. It's (arguably) probably the best
> coating you can have on your steel parts.
I don't want to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, I would like to
hear your view of the facts (the testable hypothesis that is science) that
supports this statement. Or did you really mean IMHO (religion or belief not
necessarily based on factual evidence)?
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Tap and Die Questions... |
While I'm a fan of cheap chinese tools... this might be the time to spend
the money on a well made American quality tap. The difference is amazing.
Most of the hardware store taps and dies are good enough for emergency use,
but not up to the task of cutting quality threads. Technique is important
too. Be sure to use a tapping fluid and to go slow, removing the tap to
clean the chips out regularly. One trick that we use is a "tapping block"
which is nothing more then an aluminum block with clearance holes drilled
through it for the common tap sizes you use. This will insure that the hole
is tapped straight. On flat stock you set the block on the part and put the
tap through the correctly sized hole. This holds the tap at exactly 90
degrees to the part. On the threaded tube a lathe is the best way, but a
drill press can work as well. Turn the tap by hand by rotating the chuck.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
Dang! I wish I'da done that homemade hidden MB in the wingtip thing. I do
wonder about weight however. Has anyone gone out and weighed 10' of coax? I
wonder if it would weigh more than a MB antenna (or a NAV or COM for that
matter). Its great to get these antennas out of the wind but if you're
trading weight for drag (and admittedly some $$ too) it starts not to be so
simple which is "best". Those ounces do add up! (Forgive me I just reread
Don Wentz's "weight-loss" article in the RVator :-)
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
>
>These look much stronger to me and I felt better having these pushing my
>flaps down that the puny looking rods that I got with the kit.
Are the octagon push rods heavier and more expensive? An ounce here and a
penny there, it adds up.
These push rods are in compression, even when raising the flaps (except
when stopped on the ground). While they do look flimsy, they seem to be
working okay.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
Pat is indeed correct. Comant Tech just got back to me, and the screw is
described is a tuning screw and is not to be messed with. Drill a big
enough hole in your doubler and fuselage for it to pass through without
taking it out.
Barry Pote RV9a finishing
Pat Hatch wrote:
>
> I just looked in the Comant antenna book that shows your antenna, also has
> mounting footprints and doublers depicted for the various antennas. I
> believe that the stud you reference is for fine tuning the antenna to your
> particular installation.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
While cutting those ugly flap pushrod holes, builders (-6 and -6A guys
anyway) should be aware that the size and shape of the holes required is
dependant (well, obviously!) on the positioning of the pushrod and how much
clearance you feel you need from the fuselage skin..
The position of the pushrod changes during its travel and in turn depends on
the finished length of the flap pushrod, where any spacers that you choose
to add go on the rodends (inside or outside in the U ends of the flap arms),
where you decide to position the flap lever in the cockpit for the "fully
retracted" setting (manual flaps or where of the end travel of the electric
flap actuator is set) and the amount of flap travel that you decide to use
in consultation with the plans.
If the variations in the above all add up the wrong way, the size and
location of the hole needed can extend past the inboard end of the flap
leaving a dime size opening visible when the flaps are retracted. Probably
no big deal for the aerodynamics of the airplane but possibly an issue for
wind noise and definitely lousy cosmetically! The usual fix is to add a half
circle of sheet metal to the inside end of the flap, covers the hole but
looks a bit odd. GHIK*
Rigging the flaps is one of those "up to the builders discretion" things
that Vans leaves for you when you are turned loose on your own in the latter
stages of the project. I made my flap pushrods according to the plans and
then cut them down three times in stages to arrive at a reasonable flap
pushrod geometry.
*(guess how I know).
Jim Oke
RV-6A (painting to begin real soon now!!)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps
>
> Yep - Kyle is exactly right. I looked at countless pictures of RV-6(a)'s
on
> the internet before I finally accepted the fact that I actually had to
make
> some ugly holes in the sides of my fuselage. They are covered up when the
> flaps are up. Like Kyle, I used a 3/8" bit to start the hole and then
used
> a uni-bit to open it gradually until the flaps could make there full
travel
> up and down without the flap rod touching anything. I then made sure
there
> was an extra 1/8" clearance. I found that I could actually open the hole
in
> the direction wanted using the uni-bit in a variable speed drill and
> holding some pressure in the direction that I wanted to go. Works great.
> Finish the hole edges to smooth with a small scotchbrite wheel in a die
> grinder.
>
> I know it hurts but everyone has to do it. The best remedy is an ice cold
> beer when you are finished.
>
> Happy building,
>
> Eric Newton - Long Beach, MS
> RV-6A N57ME (Sold)
> Glastar (Empennage)
> www.ericsrv6a.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <KBoatri144(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flaps
>
>
> >
> > In a message dated 9/5/02 9:30:46 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> > ghfrost(at)earthlink.net writes:
> >
> > << How do you hook up the flaps on an RV-6?
> > The actuator tube doesn't seem to want to go around the lower corner
> > of the fuselage.
> > Any help would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > George >>
> >
> > You make a hideously ugly pair of holes (one on the left side, one on
the
> > right) in the side/bottom of the fuselage. Start by holding the flap in
> the
> > retracted position then mark (on the fuselage) where the flap actuator
> would
> > have to penetrate the fuse to attach to the flap. Drill a hole in this
> > location. Might as well start with something big - say 3/8" - 1/2".
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "van Bladeren, Ron" <rwv(at)nwnatural.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate canopies |
My canopy ended up being one of the one's with the short sides which I
didn't detect until after trimming the flange off. I would recommend that
before any trimming is done, that you set the canopy frame on a table and
lower the bubble down over it and check for adequate side edge material.
Van's was VERY gracious in providing a free replacement which has about .5"
to .75" more side material (in fact, the old canopy will fit quite nicely
inside the new canopy!).
Also, I'm not sure what value the red cut line provides on these canopies.
The plans indicate that this was the final trim line of a production canopy
and is to be used for reference. While the sides and back appear to be
pretty accurate, the front seems to be way off. I'm guessing that I'll have
to cut 2" to 3" above the front red line in order to clear the front deck.
Have others had this same experience?
Ron.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "F. Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com> |
| Subject: | internal and external voltage regulator |
Hi to the listers-
I just purchased Van's 60 amp alternator which has an internal voltage
regulator. For the previous alternator (not regulated) I installed Bob
Knuckoll's 14 v linear regulator. Can I take remove this regulator now
that the alternator has one?
The one thing I like about that regulator is the yellow light that
indicates low voltage. Is there another way to trigger a low voltage
light?
Thanks,
Parker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Christie" <billc3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies |
Mark,
I was one of your group. I got the 1/4" tinted (Phoenix, AZ) and was quite
happy with it. Once trimmed, I have about an inch below the rail where it is
rivited. I just went out and looked down the edge for the ripple, but can't
see it on mine. Maybe the tint tends to hide it, if it's there. I agree that
we got a good deal and I was quite satisfied with the canopy and dealings
with Todd.
Thanks Again,
Bill Christie, RV8A, Phoenix
----- Original Message -----
From: <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies
>
> Guys,
>
> For another data point on Todd Silver's Canopies...personally I was happy
> with his service, and the price too (as part of a group order I helped
> organize a while back the discounted prices were pretty competitive with
> the credit from Van's for omitting it from the finish kit...but as Todd
> Wenzel points out shipping for Todd's Canopies is now additional and if
> you aren't getting a group order discount it would not be a good deal
> IMHO). The origninal post/question on this topic was regarding the
> problem someone had with a Vans canopy being too short on the sides to
> fit the frame. I thought I was going to have this problem with the
> Todd's Canopy that I got....the sides come pre-trimmed, and for a while I
> thought it had been trimmed too much. In the end after all the trimming
> on the front and back of the canopy, mine fits on the sides....but just
> *barely* with minimum edge distance. I would prefer to have a bit extra
> there for insurance to keep the rivets from cracking to the canopy edge.
>
> PRO's: The things that attracted me to get a Todd's Canopy was his free
> replacement guarantee if you crack it during installation, and his
> offering of 1/4" thickness which is noticably sturdier than the 3/16"
> that Vans offers. As part of my "compensation" for helping get a group
> order together, Todd sent me two canopies for the price of one. One is
> 1/4" and the other is 3/16". What I did is used the front half of the
> 1/4" for the windscreen (extra bird strike protection), and the back half
> on the slider is 3/16" (to keep it light and make it easier to break out
> of in an emergency compared to using 1/4" for the entire canopy). I am
> very pleased with this setup so for me it was worthwhile to get it from
> Todd Silver.
>
> CON's: My canopy is perfectly clear--no tint at all. I would have
> preferred a light tint like Vans canopies have, but the only tint offered
> by Todd Silver is a much darker tint. Some builders wanted the darker
> tint but for me it was too dark so I reluctantly settled for the clear.
> The other concern I have is that on my 3/16" canopy, the sides at the
> base of the canopy (where it rivets to the frame) have a *very slight*
> distortion or "ripple effect" as you sight down the side of the canopy.
> It appears that the clamping method Todd used involved multiple clamps in
> the mold around the edges of the plexi, and on my canopy this resulted in
> some distortion at the intersection of each clamp. Most of it is hidden
> under the skirt, and as far as I can tell it isn't really noticeable from
> sitting inside the cockpit looking out. But standing on the outside
> looking down the side, or through the canopy at an angle, it is visible
> if you look closely. Don't know if anyone else with a Todd's canopy has
> the same thing and it's not a big enough deal to whine about much but I
> think in this sense it is slightly inferior quality to what Vans offers.
> BTW the view through the windscreen and general impression from inside
> the cockpit is just fine.
>
> Hope this feedback helps someone else make their decision. Unless you
> really want a much darker tint, 1/4" thickness, or the replacement
> guarantee, I'd keep things simple and just stick with the canopy Vans
> ships with the finish kit....
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D eternally finishing (when I can get away from fixing the flood
> damage to my home....)
> _______
> Subject: RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
> From: "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel@heartland-software.com>
>
> <TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com>
>
> My own experience from Todd Silver...good product, LOUSY SERVICE, ok
> price. BTW, it will cost MORE to buy a "3rd party" canopy than you will
> receive credit by excluding it from your finishing kit order. I don't
> have the numbers in front of me, but I think the "credit" from vans was
> around $325-$375, and the cost of the canopy and shipping from Todd
> Silver will be well over $500. Remember that Todd's prices no longer
> include shipping, so be prepared to add around $100 to $150 to his
> prices.
>
> Todd Wenzel
> Delafield, WI USA
> RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
> TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Larry Hawkins [mailto:lhawkins(at)giant.com]
> Subject: RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
>
>
> Look in the Yeller pages for Todd Silver, great product, great service
> at a great price.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: glen j matejcek [mailto:aerobubba(at)compuserve.com]
> Subject: RV-List: alternate canopies
>
>
> -->
>
> Howdy listers-
>
> I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to
> be able to find any clear guidance. Fist is alternate canopy sources.
> The recent problems with canopy dimensions got me to thinking about
> other sources. Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
> advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's? The
> other question will be a seperate post to seperate the threads. Thanks
> in advance for any and all insights!
>
> Glen
> RV-8QB, back rightside up in Indy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Tap and Die Questions... |
Another place to use the method David mentions below is drilling the rear spar
fuselage to wing attach hole. This is one area where you have to get it right
the first time. Making a block as described will hold your drill perpendicular
to the spar. This hole has to be made with a hand drill, not a drill press, so
you have to take extra precautions. A good technique is to drill slightly
undersized and then use a reamer to bring it up to perfect diameter.
Bill Marvel
David Burton wrote:
> One trick that we use is a "tapping block"
> which is nothing more then an aluminum block with clearance holes drilled
> through it for the common tap sizes you use. This will insure that the hole
> is tapped straight. On flat stock you set the block on the part and put the
> tap through the correctly sized hole. This holds the tap at exactly 90
> degrees to the part.
-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate canopies |
glen j matejcek wrote:
>
> Howdy listers-
>
> I've been poking around the archives on two subjects, and don't seem to be
> able to find any clear guidance. First is alternate canopy sources.
>
> Glen
> RV-8QB,
Glen;
Try http://www.kgarden.com/todd/
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Roseblade <davidagr(at)emirates.net.ae> |
| Subject: | Air-Conditioning in an RV6 |
Listers,
Has anyone contemplated putting an AC in an RV6?, we fly out here in the
Persian Gulf, where the temp is HOT ie today was 40 C + 60% humidity, our
1976 vintage! PA 28's have a factory fit AC, but are not that effective.
I would probably install a lightweight Japanese compressor driven by the
engine (dual pulley flywheels are available) an electrically operated
evaporator door with a switch on the throttle quadrant which would cut off
the compressor and retract the evaporator door for take-off (should I forget
to do it). If there are any installations installed I would be interested on
what parts were used and effectiveness.
n.b Only needed below 8000'
Regards
David Roseblade
RV6A - Finish kit - working canopy in air conditioned comfort.
Dubai, UAE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: alternate canopies |
Ron:
> Also, I'm not sure what value the red cut line provides on these canopies.
> The plans indicate that this was the final trim line of a production canopy
> and is to be used for reference. While the sides and back appear to be
> pretty accurate, the front seems to be way off. I'm guessing that I'll have
> to cut 2" to 3" above the front red line in order to clear the front deck.
> Have others had this same experience?
FWIW, I had to cut my 8A canopy about 3 inches forward of the rear trim line.
I
called Vans when I saw that geometry and they simply said to trim as necessary
to make it fit. Makes me wonder what the point is of placing the lines on there
in the first place.
Bill Marvel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Regarding RV-7A empennage parts with vinyl coating |
Like I said in the opening line "it's (arguably) probably.......
That pretty much sums it up.
Mike
>
> > What you're seeing is the powder coating. It's (arguably) probably the
best
> > coating you can have on your steel parts.
>
> I don't want to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, I would like to
> hear your view of the facts (the testable hypothesis that is science) that
> supports this statement. Or did you really mean IMHO (religion or belief
not
> necessarily based on factual evidence)?
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
So Cal RV Group
| Subject: | Mechanical fuel pump problem |
Hi all:
Here's a heads up for any of you who may have purchased a new O-360-A1A
from Van or from any other source back in late 2000 or early 2001.
My engine arrived in early Jan 2001, was installed in my 8A months
later, and started flying on April 6, 2002. The pump was not one of
those included in Lycoming SB 548. I noted from the earliest flights
that the fuel pressure was below the usual 5 psi I get in my Grumman
Tiger, which has essentially the same pump. Often I saw only 3 psi from
the mechanical pump and occasionally it was as low as 1. Although
Lycoming specs .5 psi as the lower limit, I can assure you that I had no
good feelings about 1 psi when 5 is more normal.
Because my electric boost pump reliably brought the pressure back up to
5 to 6 psi I did not worry too much about the mechanical pump. After
all, it operated to within specs and I had a solid gold backup.
Eventually I bought an overhauled pump and installed it, keeping the
original for investigation. I did not make a warranty claim, since I
did not want either the hassle or the down time. The overhauled pump
operated normally, giving me a solid 5 to 6 psi, with a lowest seen of 3
psi. A detailed teardown and inspection of the original pump did not
reveal any discrepancies, so I will have it overhauled and left on the
shelf as a spare.
I don't know if this has occurred to anyone else, but if it does, you
might want to consider getting the pump off the engine.
Bill Marvel
8A So. Cal.
130 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring B8 stick grip |
Ron:
A couple of thoughts:
> Each switch has one wire going to a
> > connector pin and the other connected to a common connector pin (9
> > pins in
> > all).
In short, it looks like activating any of these switches will take the circuit
to ground, which is no
doubt what the additional wire is for.
> I wanted to use two of the other
> > switches
> > for flaps (one for flaps up, one for flaps down). The only way I
> > can think
> > of to wire this is to have each flap switch power a relay that would
> > in
> > turn power the flaps in the appropriate direction.
This is probably the surest way to do it, in that you don't know how long the
small contacts on the stick switches will last with flap power running
directly across them.
> I would also
> > like to
> > use one switch for a PTT, but this would require that the switch
> > have two
> > leads that can be wired directly to the radio PTT function, or again
> > use a
> > relay to momentarily connect the PTT circuit to the radio.
I think it is much easier than that. Keying a mic requires connecting the
"tip" to ground. "Tip" is the old telephone company lingo for the pointed end
of the microphone plug. In short, ground it and you have keyed the mic. This
is the way I wired in backup PTTs in my 8A. The primary is on the stick and
backup next to the mic jack on the panel. Only one lead of this stick switch
is required. Pushing the PTT will close that circuit to ground (see my first
observation above) and this will key the mic.
> (I
> > really like the feel of the B8 as it is the same grip we used in AF
> > fighters (former life).
If this is what you want, there is no reason why you cannot wire it to work.
Bill Marvel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: internal and external voltage regulator |
Parker,
Another possiblity might be to convert your alternator to non-regulating and
stay with your Knuckolls' regulator. This can be done by your local
alternator shop, it is probably not something you would want to try
yourself. I recently did this with a 65 amp Nippon Denso and was charged
$40 by the local automotive electric shop. Should have seen the look on the
guy's face..."you want to do what?"
Pat Hatch
RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs
O-320, Hartzell C/S
RV-6, N44PH, 30 hrs
O-360, Hartzell C/S
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "F. Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com>
Subject: RV-List: internal and external voltage regulator
>
> Hi to the listers-
>
> I just purchased Van's 60 amp alternator which has an internal voltage
> regulator. For the previous alternator (not regulated) I installed Bob
> Knuckoll's 14 v linear regulator. Can I take remove this regulator now
> that the alternator has one?
>
> The one thing I like about that regulator is the yellow light that
> indicates low voltage. Is there another way to trigger a low voltage
> light?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Parker
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
maybe this is old news to all of you computer sauvy types, but, it has taken
me a week to recover from the many viruses that crashed my computer last
week. Since the vast majority of my e-mail comes from the RV-list, I
thought I'd pass this on. While I was downloading a weeks worth of e-mail,
Norton detected another 8 viruses, although I don't believe they were RV
list originated. I would guess that 99% of my e-mail and internet visits
are RV related, so perhaps others have been to the same places. I've also
learned that just having a backup file doesn't mean that it will actually
work when needed.
So, a lack of replies comes from having nothing saved at this point.
Please repost me if I didn't respond. Kevin Lane -6A Portland OR do
not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's |
Canopies
> My own experience from Todd Silver...good product, LOUSY SERVICE, ok
> price. BTW, it will cost MORE to buy a "3rd party" canopy than you will
> receive credit by excluding it from your finishing kit order. I don't
> have the numbers in front of me, but I think the "credit" from vans was
> around $325-$375, and the cost of the canopy and shipping from Todd
> Silver will be well over $500. Remember that Todd's prices no longer
> include shipping, so be prepared to add around $100 to $150 to his
> prices.
>
> Todd Wenzel
> Delafield, WI USA
> RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
> TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
Listers,
I've mentioned this thread on the list to Todd Silver. He is a member of my EAA
Chapter. He asked me to forward his explanation of what transpired with Todd
Wenzel's canopy. It is because of the problems he had with this one particular
trucking company that he dropped the free shipping.
FYI, Todd Silver had to "eat" the shipping on the canopies which arrived at Todd
Wenzel's damaged. He was not able to to even collect insurance on the second
damaged canopy. It seems that he was not able to get one of his other trucking
firms to deliver to Todd Wenzel's area. His comments to me are below.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fuselage
Boca Raton, Fl.
Charlie,
I sent Todd a canopy. The crate looked like a forklift blade went through it. I
sent him a second canopy. The crate looked like it was dragged from FL to WI.
I sent him a third canopy. It got there undamaged. He was upset that he had to
wait so long to get his canopy. I guess I would
be too.
I stopped prepaying shipping. I now ask that the customer pays for the shipping
when the crate arrives in good condition. Since I started doing this I haven't
had one problem with trucking companies trashing crates.
Todd Silver
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wiring B8 stick grip |
Bill,
We had the same problem with wanting to use a coolie hat switch for our
elevator trim. The problem being that the trim system called for a DPDT
switch and the one we had was a SPDT. The solution was to purchase from
Van's a servo for a mere $ 67.00. This also releives the switch from having
to handle all that current.
Wayne
8A QB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Marvel" <bmarvel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wiring B8 stick grip
>
> Ron:
>
> A couple of thoughts:
>
>
> > Each switch has one wire going to a
> > > connector pin and the other connected to a common connector pin (9
> > > pins in
> > > all).
>
> In short, it looks like activating any of these switches will take the
circuit
> to ground, which is no
> doubt what the additional wire is for.
>
> > I wanted to use two of the other
> > > switches
> > > for flaps (one for flaps up, one for flaps down). The only way I
> > > can think
> > > of to wire this is to have each flap switch power a relay that would
> > > in
> > > turn power the flaps in the appropriate direction.
>
> This is probably the surest way to do it, in that you don't know how long
the
> small contacts on the stick switches will last with flap power running
> directly across them.
>
> > I would also
> > > like to
> > > use one switch for a PTT, but this would require that the switch
> > > have two
> > > leads that can be wired directly to the radio PTT function, or again
> > > use a
> > > relay to momentarily connect the PTT circuit to the radio.
>
> I think it is much easier than that. Keying a mic requires connecting the
> "tip" to ground. "Tip" is the old telephone company lingo for the pointed
end
> of the microphone plug. In short, ground it and you have keyed the mic.
This
> is the way I wired in backup PTTs in my 8A. The primary is on the stick
and
> backup next to the mic jack on the panel. Only one lead of this stick
switch
> is required. Pushing the PTT will close that circuit to ground (see my
first
> observation above) and this will key the mic.
>
>
> > (I
> > > really like the feel of the B8 as it is the same grip we used in AF
> > > fighters (former life).
>
> If this is what you want, there is no reason why you cannot wire it to
work.
>
> Bill Marvel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: internal and external voltage regulator |
> Another possiblity might be to convert your alternator to
> non-regulating and stay with your Knuckolls' regulator. This can be
> done by your local alternator shop
Instructions and photos for how I did mine are at
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/alternator.htm
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Comant Marker Beacon antennae CI-102 |
Did you look in the Aeroelectric List archives? Might find something
there, I seem to recall this came up before.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 199 hours
>
> THanks for that input. I didn't know it was that simple. I
> see nothing in the archives about that. Barry
>
> Alex Peterson wrote:
> >
> > -->
> >
> > > I bought a CI-102 Marker Beacon antennae from Aircraft Spruce.
> > >
> > > They are no help on questions. I called Comant and got
> the old "I'm
> > > away from my desk or on the phone with another customer" routine.
> > >
> > > I am making doublers for my antennaes.
> > >
> >
> > Barry, I'm not directly answering your question, but offering
> > something to consider. Send the antenna back, and simply run your
> > marker beacon coax out to the wingtip, and attach it to a 41" long
> > copper wire (I'm going on memory here - check with others regarding
> > the length). Glue it down, or some other attachment, and
> you are good
> > to go. No rocket science with MB antennae.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
>
> Is the "Standard Aircraft Handbook" available on the web for download? In
> RV Yeller Pages in hard copy or CD format?
>
> David Carter
David: The Builders Bookstore catalog I have lists the above book. Phone
970-887-2207 and web address is www.buildersbooks.com. I had thought that
Aircraft Spruce had them but couldn't find it in the catalog I have. I
don't know about the download possibilities.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More Tap and Die Questions... |
----- Original Message -----
From: <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net>
Subject: RV-List: More Tap and Die Questions...
>
> I found when taping my flap control arms, the outside of the aluminum
tubing
> bulged a bit. I've ordered several more pieces and I'll try it again but
did
> others find this?
>
> Steve
> RV7A
> misc fuse stuff
Steve: Take a look at the tubing ID. It probably need drilling out before
tapping.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tap and Die Questions... |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Newton" <enewton57(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tap and Die Questions...
>
> Hi Kurt,
> I looked at these with and didn't like the small size for the job they are
> doing. I bought the required tap at the local Home Depot and tried to
drill
> the rod out to the correct size and then tap the holes. The result was
> unacceptable (I got it crooked).
One approach to the problem is to chuck the tap in your drill press, set the
tube in your drill press vise, align and use a combination of drill press
feed (by hand) and turning the chuck by hand to start the tap. Revert to a
regular tap wrench when started. There is also a tap wrench that has a
spindle that allows the wrench to turn and feed itself while the spindle is
chucked in the press. The drill press is then just a fixture and the work
is done by hand. Be sure and drill the tubing ID to the proper size for the
tap being used.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Mechanical fuel pump problem |
I'm responding to this for a friend and hangar-mate.
He had the EXACT same problem with his fuel pump, on a new 0-360 bought from
Vans.
He noticed the problem prior to flying and began a discussion with Lycoming.
They proptly sent him a new pump (had to send the old one to them first) and
the replacement pump immediately fixed the problem.
The symptoms and fix are EXACTLY as you describe here...
Jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Marvel
Subject: RV-List: Mechanical fuel pump problem
Hi all:
Here's a heads up for any of you who may have purchased a new O-360-A1A
from Van or from any other source back in late 2000 or early 2001.
My engine arrived in early Jan 2001, was installed in my 8A months
later, and started flying on April 6, 2002. The pump was not one of
those included in Lycoming SB 548. I noted from the earliest flights
that the fuel pressure was below the usual 5 psi I get in my Grumman
Tiger, which has essentially the same pump. Often I saw only 3 psi from
the mechanical pump and occasionally it was as low as 1. Although
Lycoming specs .5 psi as the lower limit, I can assure you that I had no
good feelings about 1 psi when 5 is more normal.
Because my electric boost pump reliably brought the pressure back up to
5 to 6 psi I did not worry too much about the mechanical pump. After
all, it operated to within specs and I had a solid gold backup.
Eventually I bought an overhauled pump and installed it, keeping the
original for investigation. I did not make a warranty claim, since I
did not want either the hassle or the down time. The overhauled pump
operated normally, giving me a solid 5 to 6 psi, with a lowest seen of 3
psi. A detailed teardown and inspection of the original pump did not
reveal any discrepancies, so I will have it overhauled and left on the
shelf as a spare.
I don't know if this has occurred to anyone else, but if it does, you
might want to consider getting the pump off the engine.
Bill Marvel
8A So. Cal.
130 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fw: Re: RV-8 canopy feedback |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, I got the following response from Todd Silver regarding my comments
on his canopy that I'm using on my -8A. Just thought I'd pass it
along....it's good that he's improved his product and offering more tints
than when I ordered.
One other thing I forgot to mention in my post yesterday, there is
another advantage to clear plexi (in addition to night flying visibility
that Todd mentions below) and that is for air-to-air photography. You
can still get good enough pics through the light tint that Vans supplies
that for most people this isn't a consideration--even Ed Hicks was
shooting air-to-air from Vans RV-8A at homecoming this year--but the
absolute best thing to shoot pictures through is nothing (i.e. open door
or window) and the next best is through untinted clear plexi.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D canopy skirts...
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: BSILVER05(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 6 Sep 2002 13:33:00 EDT
Subject: Re: RV-8 canopy feedback
Mark,
Believe it or not the canopy you recieved from me is an exact copy of a
canopy supplied by Van's. I used to think that was good enough.
With the feedback from other builders I now know it is not.
I now make an improved version of the RV-8 canopy. I give significanly
September 02, 2002 - September 06, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-nk