RV-Archive.digest.vol-nl
September 06, 2002 - September 12, 2002
more
edge distance. The optical ripple on the bottom edge of the canopy you
commented about? It is now small enough to be hidden by the canopy frame.
Because my company has grown since you bought from me I now have access
to
tints I didn't have before. ( I can afford minimum orders) I have a light
grey tint which is what you wanted.
As we both know an advantage to a clear canopy and windshield is that it
is
the best for night flight. Next time you are up in the pitch dark under
the
clouds on a moonless night you may be thanking me.
Lycoming is still comming out with AD's for their 50 year old engines. I
hope
to get all the bugs out of my canopies in a year or so.
Thanks again for organizing the group order and for your business.
Todd Silver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
<<<<>>>>>>
Codependant??? don't they have special hospitals for those with this
problem,
oh yeah,
Sam already covered that?
never mind ;{)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: More Tap and Die Questions... |
Bill Marvel wrote:
>
>
> Steve:
>
> I do not recall encountering this on my 8A. It sounds as though the pilot hole
> you drilled for the tap may have been too small. This would allow the tap to
> push the walls outboard.
>
> Recheck the drill size called out for the tap and that the drill you have is
the
> correct one.
> This should not happen.
>
> Bill Marvel
> 8A 130 hours So Cal.
>
> sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote:
>
> >
> > I found when taping my flap control arms, the outside of the aluminum tubing
> > bulged a bit.
> >
> > Steve
> > RV7A
> > misc fuse stuff
> >
Or the tap is dull/worn and/or tapping "dry" without cutting compound.
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
"RV List"
| Subject: | Golden West Air Race |
The Aircraft Spruce Golden West Race was run today from Apple Valley
Airport.
Where were the RV series aircraft????
It turns out that only 19 planes entered.
The was only one Harmon Rocket and one RV-8.
There were 8 or 9 plastic planes. :-(
Anyway, I wasn't able to find any results.
Tom Gummo
Bouncing Three Pointers and Smooth as Glass Two Pointers :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Not sure of this got answered.
Universal National Fine thread 1/4" shank, 28 threads per inch
or
Universal National Coarse thread 1/4" shank, 20 threads per inch
Home Depot or any good hardware store sells both
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rocket-List: Golden West Air Race |
Thats OK Tom everyone will get another chance on the Oct.11th Copperstate
Race. IF Jim (A/S Pres.) follows thru with plans for a high HP class at
Copperstate maybe we'll get the RV and Rocket racers at APV on the 10th and
ready to race on the 11th. For more info get a hold of Aircraft Spruce and
express your interest in same. KABONG
--- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Rocket-List: Golden West Air Race
> --> Rocket-List message posted by: "Tom Gummo"
>
> The Aircraft Spruce Golden West Race was run today from Apple Valley
> Airport.
> Where were the RV series aircraft????
> It turns out that only 19 planes entered.
> The was only one Harmon Rocket and one RV-8.
> There were 8 or 9 plastic planes. :-(
> Anyway, I wasn't able to find any results.
>
> Tom Gummo
> Bouncing Three Pointers and Smooth as Glass Two Pointers :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy question |
I'm about there but I'm going to use #6 stainless steel screws. Didn't
drill the front two holes. They will get the full row on the bottom where it
attaches to the frame.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
> For all you guys who have bonded on the canopy bubble using Proseal,
Lexel, or whatever. How did you attach the aluminum side skirts without
adding rivets???
>
> If you glued it on.... how did you clamp it down until the glue sets????
>
> I gotta know!
>
> Vince
> F-1H Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Wiring B8 stick grip |
> I notice that the Infinity grip has 17 conductors, (obviously doesn't use
a
> common ground). I could rewire the B8 grip to give me two connectors from
> each switch like Infinity ..or... I can just go buy an Infinity switch.
(I
> really like the feel of the B8 as it is the same grip we used in AF
> fighters (former life). Somebody out there have any other ideas? If not,
> can you tell me where to get the 17-pin connector that Infinity uses?
I have the Infinity grips. They come with a thick tail holding 18 wires
three feet long. Longer lengths can be custom ordered. The wire is top
quaility. The grips can be split in half and all the switches exposed. They
are just a bunch of little toggles with the wires painstakinly soldered on.
A factor for me in their large price is the fact that a couple of hours work
for an amature is already done by having them come with the wire bundle
pre-done.
As for a connector, I had looked high and low. Ended up with a large molex
connector on the right side from Digikey and the left side is hardwired in,
no connector. Most of the switches have the two grips wired in parallel. I
don't plan on having the passenger stick installed much. RV6's can be flown
from each seat with only the left grip installed. Other than that I've
always got George. All switches on the grips will be duplicated on the
panel. (I think, not there yet)
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | IK-2000 update (was: ACS 2002 engine monitor) |
Listers,
just wanted to bring you up to speed again on the IK2000 and why I think you
should all look at this before you buy engine instruments. (I have no
connection to this company, just own and love the instrument). Its great
that we have such good choices now!!!, but I took a trip and saw a couple of
planes being built yesterday that were using VM1000 engine monitoring
systems... making me think that there "may" be other choices out there that
do MORE functions for LESS money.
Two days ago Dan Checkoway wrote a nice letter here (attached below) that
indicated all of the individual instruments that would be needed to match
what is included in the recently released ACS 2002 engine monitor. With the
exception of an ammeter and hour meter, the IK2000 gives you everything
listed here also PLUS it gives you indicated airspeed, Mode C altitude,
altitude deviation, and density altitude -- at a price (including ALL
sensors) of $2675. So according to Dan's calculations, you save $824 over
the gauges priced, simplify wiring, save lots of weight, gain tri-colored
bargraphs made up on individual traffic-light-quality LEDs (and digital
displays), and have a unit that is easy to upgrade in the future, comes
fully customized to your specific engine and is composed of two separate
modules and multiple (four I believe) independent microprocessors, so you
wont face the possibility of a blank screen if theres a processor or
screen failure.
Best of all, you really can tell with just an instantaneous glance if all
parameters are within normal limits. The bargraphs all point in the same
direction so your scan wont have to interpret vertical indications as well
as circular gauge-like indications. And the bright colors dont fight each
other if somethings out of limits, youll see just a yellow LED bar or
red LED bar for that parameter you wont have to figure out where the
white line falls among all those colors.
I-K Technologies has been shipping units for over a year. There are a
handful of RV's flying with these (including Van's RV9A), and I know of a
couple others that will be in the air within a few weeks. Mine took less
than one hour to hook up, and EVERY parameter worked the first time I fired
it up. I can't tell you how easy it is to see a bunch of green LEDs all in
a row to know that every thing is ok. If I want to know the exact
temperature, its there in a digital readout, but I don't need that most of
the time... I just need to glance and see that there are no yellow or red
LEDs. Also, the unit is programmed for your engine/prop/ignition/fuel
system. Parameters (limits) are set according to what you are using up
front.
See it here.
http://www.i-ktechnologies.com/ik2000/
Thanks for the forum... meant NOT to be a sales pitch (I have NO
relationship with these guys), but when I get a good product, I want to
share it with the rest of you. Happy shopping, no flames intended.
jim
Tampa
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS 2002 engine monitor
>
>
> This isn't exactly what you're asking for...but it might be interesting
> nonetheless. I did the math and figured out how much it would cost to go
> with individual needle-style gauges (plus a few digital toys) vs. the ACS
> 2002, and here's what I came up with:
>
> Oil Pressure $58 IE VOP100, IE 411K
> Oil Temperature $45 IE VOT250, IE 02017-00, VA-147
> Fuel Pressure $58 IE VFP50, IE 411L
> Manifold Pressure $121 IE VMP35, IE VMP INSTALL KIT
> Tach $101 IE VTACH3500, IE VTACHGEN 12
> Engine Monitor $1,439 IE UBG-16
> Fuel Qty. $345 IE FL-2C
> Fuel Flow $775 IE FP-5
> Voltmeter $31 IE VV16
> Ammeter $49 IE VAM40, IE VAMSHUNT40
> Hour Meter $70 IE R8864, IE SPDT PRES-15 SW
> OAT/Chron. $410 Davtron M803
> =============================
> Total: $3,500
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com> |
vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
| Subject: | RV8A Quick build |
I just recieved my RV8A Qb fuselage. Vans does not give a clue where they
left off with the quick build and where I need to start. Any advice?
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8A Quick build |
Al:
My short answer is to just start reading the fuselage assembly plans as
written and note the first thing mentioned that is not done. Start there.
That is how I started.
Then there's the longer answer -- As I recall, the first thing was drilling
the floor into place. In truth, you can probably do anything you want as
long as you don't permanently enclose something that you have to get to
later. Totally independent projects include:
Floor
Front and rear seat backs
After floor, front seat ramp
Canopy track on aft fuselage
Throttle quadrant assembly
Lower instrument console assembly, left and right
Static system installation
Flap drive cover installation
Forward and rear baggage compartment installation
ELT location and installation
Step installation (caution-rudder cable may contact step requiring a welded
"U channel" in the step to provide clearance)
Identify wire runs and install snap grommets
Install aft control column hanger
Assemble rudder pedals
Install brake master cylinder and flex lines
All those just pop right to mind as I write this. I am sure there are more
things, but these will keep you busy for a long time....
A few suggestions not mentioned in the plans:
1. Drill a drain hole or two through the bottom skin on the aft side of each
of the fuselage bulkheads. No water drainage is provided otherwise. The aft
side is the high side when the 8A is on the gear and this is where water will
accumulate. Also, note my post from last week on water accumulation in the
belly. You will have to attend to this later when you can pour in water and
locate the low spots. Also, plan to seal the seam where the lower fuselage
panel extends beyond the fuselage as part of the bottom wing fairing. This is
a major water leakage path in all RVs with a nose gear.
2. Before installing the gear weldments to the spar, be sure to run a ream
through all the wing attach bolt holes in the weldment. All of the powder
coated components in the kit have the coating on the ID of holes, making them
too small. Normally you can do these as you go. However, if you follow the
"do as you go" method, you will not get to the 8 wing attach holes per
weldment until the wing is being fitted. At that point the weldments are
bolted to the spar and there is no easy way to clean out the powder coating
on the remaining holes. Do it now.
3. Put a large access panel in the bulkhead that forms the aft side of the
forward baggage compartment. This will give you much improved access to your
instruments.
4. Although shown in the drawing, make a special note to rivet onto the
weldments the shim called out in drawing 30A, just to the left of section
R-R. Finding this after installing the weldments would not make you happy.
No, I did not make that mistake. I made others :-).
5. Lay your HS on the fuselage right now and make absolutely sure that the
forward spar lies on top of the bulkhead through which it is to be bolted.
Specifically, be sure the F810C and D align with the HS814 with sufficient
edge clearance for the AN 3 bolts that go through there to hold the HS down.
In my case there was not enough edge clearance. I did some measurements and
phoned them up to Gus at Van's. He did the same measurements and we found
that my QB fuselage was off by 1/4 inch. That was precisely the edge
clearance I needed but did not have. I had to make up a larger F810C and D
to solve the problem. Best to find that out now while things are accessible.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Frankly, I loved the fuselage. Many of the
projects mentioned above are small enough that you can get them done in a
day. You really accomplish something in a short time period and get a lot of
satisfaction from it.
Man, we're having fun now...
Bill Marvel
Al Grajek wrote:
>
> I just recieved my RV8A Qb fuselage. Vans does not give a clue where they
> left off with the quick build and where I need to start. Any advice?
>
> http://www.hotmail.com
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kdbrv8r(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
I would appreciate some info from other Infinity Stick Grip users. What
length of wire was required for front and rear grips in the RV-8 (for
ordering purposes). They come with 3 feet, and it's $2.00 per foot over
that. Measuring from the rear seat stick, I came up with 11 feet, worst
case scenario. Stick button/switch functions will be the same for pilot
and rear seater. Thanks in advance.
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
N1903P resvd - starting panel and stick wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
>I would appreciate some info from other Infinity Stick Grip users.
What
>length of wire was required for front and rear grips in the RV-8 (for
>ordering purposes). Stick button/switch functions will be the same for
>pilot and rear seater.
Hmmmm. Not sure I would have a wired grip in the back. I worry about my
rear seaters having a push-to-talk some days, which is not even on the
rear stick grip. I think PIC needs switches that run flaps, landing
lights, radio frequencies, etc. Not sure the back seater needs to be
doing any of that, especially inadvertently.
I have an Infinity grip up front which I LOVE, by the way, and have a
simple wooden grip in the back. The stick is usually not installed when
a passenger is back there unless it is someone that is going to fly whom
I know well, then they still get the "wing removal lever" lecture.
Having it hard wired would preclude removal. Maybe not the best idea.
But that is just IMHO.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Van Artsdalen, Scott" <svanarts(at)unionsafe.com> |
| Subject: | flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT |
These are mostly alfalfa pastures and crop duster strips. All at sea-level
and only in the mornings. I used to fly my Champ into them all the time.
That's probably why I land the way I do. Don't worry, I'm not going to be
visiting them unless I feel CERTAIN that my RV-4 will be able to handle
them. Looking at the size of the tires, I'll probably steer clear of all
but the best crop duster strips.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
Network Administrator
Union Safe Deposit Bank
209-946-5116
-----Original Message-----
From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
Scott,
I suppose any strip that is shorter than what you've previously landed on
could be considered short. It's been my experience that 1200' is, indeed, a
pretty short landing field. Toss in some bushes or short trees at the
approach end or a little xwind and you've got you're work cut out for
yourself. I know all the stories about bush pilots and how they land in
less than 300' (or whatever distance the story teller cares to embellish)
but that's certainly not the norm.
The 1200' airports that you mention flying into, are they public use or
private?
I don't know about your area, but of the 272 public use airports within a
200nm radius of my home base, none are less than 1500' publish length. I'd
be curious to find a web site where I could look up and find how many public
airports have lengths of less than 1500' in the U.S. Maybe there is a site
where we can specify a search of all public airports greater than 1500' then
compare those results with a search of the total number of public use
airports in the U.S.
I think that would interesting.
Mike
>
> Maybe I'm assuming too much. Is 1200' considered a short strip? Because
> those are the runway lengths I go into frequently. 3000' is long and
> luxurious in my opinion. Maybe that's why my instructors (and myself) are
> hung up on three-point full-stall landings. I've always treated every
> landing as a short field landing. Power-off approach too. However I will
> agree with Jerry and others who have said you can't fly every single
> airplane the same as all the others. Every airplane requires it's own
> specific technique and I am sooooo looking forward to figuring out my -4!!
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen, MCSE, CCNA
> Network Administrator
> Union Safe Deposit Bank
> 209-946-5116
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Nellis [mailto:mike(at)bmnellis.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 04, 2002 9:33 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
> My feelings exactly Sam. Although not flying the RV yet, I rarely land
the
> Stinson in 3 points unless I'm going into a very short field. When
getting
> my tailwheel training about 250 hours ago my instructor didn't want me
even
> playing around with 3 pointers. In fact, in all of my 5 hours of
tailwheel
> instruction I don't recall even performing a "wheel" landing.
>
> However, when the time comes to get into that 1200' strip you need to
> pointed with nose to the air and praying to the God of Landings (at least
in
> the Stinson by this inexperienced tailwheel pilot).
>
> Mike Nellis - http://bmnellis.com
> Georgetown, TX
> Fuselage
> RV6 N699BM Reserved
> 1947 Stinson 108-2 N9666K
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT
>
>
> >
> >
> > Jerry Springer wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > One thing Scott is that we can certainly get a good discussion going.
> :)
> > > Your examples of the planes you use to fly does not hold up well
> discussing
> > > RV landing techniques. Those airplanes can do "full stall three point
> landings"
> > > very easy. The RV-4 pilots with the short gear well also find that
their
> > > airplanes land different than the RV-6 with longer gear. Everyone
should
> land
> > > the best way they are comfortable with, but do not get so rigid in
> landing
> > > techniques that you cannot adjust to the situation. IMO and someone
from
> Van's
> > > can correct me, I do not believe the tail wheel spring assembly and
rear
> > > fuselage area were designed to take the beating of consistent tail
> > > wheel first landings. I do not necessarily do wheel landings I use
> attitude,
> > > I try to get close to the runway and set up my landing attitude and
hold
> > > that tell it touches down. Hopefully it is about three point. for you
> guys that
> > > believe you need to be full stalled each time you land yes you are
> going to
> > > hit the tailwheel first.
> > > Anyone that says they well never wheel land are in my opinion afraid
> > > of them and well never really learn the full ability of their
airplane.
> > > I would bet money that the guy that says it is ground for firing if
> > > someone wheel lands the tow planes probably doesn't know how or is
> afraid
> > > of them. This is very interesting reading different peoples thoughts
on
> > > this subject.
> > > One more thought how many of you tailwheel pilots transition to
> > > main wheels on takeoff roll. Think about it, if you do why do you
> > > do it?
> > > Jerry
> > >
> >
> >
> > Hello. My name is Sam Buchanan. I am here because I have a confession to
> > make. I don't know exactly how it started, and I certainly didn't think
> > it would progress this far. It's not like I planned it or anything, or
> > even wanted it to happen! It was so innocent at first, but before
> > long.....I was hooked. It even feels natural now.....almost as if it was
> > meant to be! It all started when I stated getting disgusted with how
> > inconsistent my three point landings were becoming. I started seeing
> > other tailwheel pilots at airshows landing their planes on just the main
> > wheels. It looked so...........good!
> >
> > It sorta creeps up on you, just one wheel landing now and
> > then.........but then.......it gets control of you. The urge becomes
> > stronger and stronger......so strong that you can't wait until you have
> > the chance to do another......then another.....then...........another!!
> >
> > Yes, and this is so hard to say......I have become an RV wheel-lander!
> >
> > There, I feel SO much better! I no longer worry about redicule from that
> > hateful group of RV-listers that cast a disgusting gaze in my direction
> > as I grease on another wheel landing. No longer do I have to "explain"
> > the "RV Skip" after trying to force my reluctant RV-6 to the tarmac in a
> > three-pointer.
> >
> > I FEEL LIBERATED!!!!!!! Now I can land my plane any way I want! All I
> > have to do is have full flaps as I cross the numbers (this results in
> > maximum nose-down attitude), keep a little power, and fly down to the
> > runway. I have even figured out how to make the first turn-off!
> >
> > No more RV-Skips! No more "multiple landings! No more getting current
> > with one lap around the pattern! I can fly! I can land! I am a bird!!
> >
> > I.....I......I'm getting carried away......who are those men in the
> > white suits........I HATE needles.........does this mean I lose my third
> > class medical????
> >
> > Do they make ultralights with tailwheels????
> >
> > Sam Buchanan (reformed RV-6 pilot)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Barrys Heads Up, was Flaps |
One of the guys working the tent for Van's at OSH, meantioned a good
tip: With the flaps full up, mark the edge of the top of the flaps on
the fuselage. NEVER open the flap rod hole up above that! It would be
very ugly.
Barry Pote Rv9a
Eric Newton wrote:
>
>
> Yep - Kyle is exactly right. I looked at countless pictures of RV-6(a)'s on
> the internet before I finally accepted the fact that I actually had to make
> some ugly holes in the sides of my fuselage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: alternate canopies |
| From: | James Freeman <flyeyes(at)bellsouth.net> |
On Wednesday, September 4, 2002, at 02:21 PM, glen j matejcek wrote:
> Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
> advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's?
Hi Glen.
I don't have any experience with the "stock" Van's canopy, but I am
happy with the quality/fit/price of my RV8 canopy from Todd's Custom
Canopies. Very little trimming, optically good, and available in a
slightly darker tint than Van's.
James Freeman
RV8 QB N9TN reserved
slowly finishing....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | vertical stabilizer offset |
A builder of an RV7 I met recently told me his preview plans showed an
offset for the vertical stabilizer when mounted to the fuselage. Can
anyone verify this and what the offset measurement is?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | alternate canopies |
I just posted a new progress picture that shows the "real dark" tint that
Todd can get nowadays.
www.lazy8.net/rv8.htm
Strictly a day-VFR airplane! From the inside, it is about equal to an
average pair of sunglasses.
John, Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Freeman
Subject: Re: RV-List: alternate canopies
On Wednesday, September 4, 2002, at 02:21 PM, glen j matejcek wrote:
> Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
> advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's?
Hi Glen.
I don't have any experience with the "stock" Van's canopy, but I am
happy with the quality/fit/price of my RV8 canopy from Todd's Custom
Canopies. Very little trimming, optically good, and available in a
slightly darker tint than Van's.
James Freeman
RV8 QB N9TN reserved
slowly finishing....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: QB and electrical questions |
In a message dated 9/7/02 10:54:04 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Cbradley1967(at)cs.com writes:
<< I plan to start a RV-7 soon, and have a couple questions.
Which option saves more time, the QB wing or the QB Fuse?
My guess: The wings. Lots dimples and rivets.
I have little experience reading electrical diagrams and building electrical
devices. Can any of you recommend a text book or other source to help me
practice before I have to wire the RV?
Get with your local EAA chapter, a local RV builder, or a Tech Counselor.
You'll find someone who can show you the simple techniques used on an
airplane. There really isn't much to it - it just gets more confusing and
intimidating with every additional wire you run.
I have Bob Nuckolls book and plan to utilize some ideas, but I need a more
elementary, practical book to get me started.
Thanks,
C. Bradley Ellenberger >>
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies |
Yes there were shipping company problems with the canopies that Todd
Silver sent to me. The last (3rd) canopy that Todd sent me was finally
in a real shipping crate constructed of plywood. If the first was sent
that way I don't think there would have been any problems. My biggest
beef with Todd Silver is his lack of follow through and lack of any
sense of urgency to delivering me replacement canopies. I had called
multiple times and send multiple emails to Todd Silver. I had to
basically threaten to get any response. For the 3rd canopy I had to pay
the shipping since Todd Silver apparently is seriously under
capitalized. Keep in mind that the shipping was already in the price of
the canopy when I ordered it ($475). Todd said he would refund the
shipping costs after the canopy arrived safely - if the canopy was
damaged, I would refuse delivery again and not pay for the shipping on
the 3rd canopy. Well, it took weeks of prodding to get a check from Todd
reimbursing me for the 2nd shipping charge. Total time span for this
fiasco: 10 months!
In Todd's defense, he did eventually get a nice tinted 1/4" canopy to me
and reimbursed the double shipping charges I paid. He also apparently
went through a divorce during this time period which probably
contributed to the problems I was having getting a canopy. I've got it
celcoed on the 8A now and it looks good. I was REAL careful when
installing it since I was not confident Todd would stand by his
guarantee of a free replacement if I damaged it during installation. I'm
not out of the woods yet, but am over the worst part (I think). My
experience with Todd is probably not typical based on what I've read on
this list. However, I was VERY disappointed with his lack of follow
through and the lengths I had to go to get him back on task. If I
treated my customers that way I wouldn't be in business very long.
The short of it is the canopy looks good. I'm happy with it now. Todd
Silver is a good guy with good intentions. I think I understand a little
of the personal and financial problems he was experiencing during this
10 month period. However, business is business. If you promise
something, you better be willing and able to deliver it. It is MUCH
better to manage your customer's expectations up front rather than avoid
an obvious problem hoping it will go away. It never does go away and
only gets worse.
If you are looking at an alternate canopy, Todd Silver's are good. If
you don't want his darker tint or the 1/4" thickness, then you are
probably better off staying with Van's. You WILL NOT save ANY money
going with a "non-Van's" canopy - but you will not pay much more. Is the
1/4" worth it? Beats me. Is the tint worth it? That's up to your
personal preference. I wanted a tint to help a little with the
green-house effect and, I'll admit it, I think it looks "cool".
Just my opinion and my experiences - take them for what they're worth.
Todd Wenzel
Delafield, WI USA
RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Kuss [mailto:chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net]
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's
Canopies
> My own experience from Todd Silver...good product, LOUSY SERVICE, ok
> price. BTW, it will cost MORE to buy a "3rd party" canopy than you
will
> receive credit by excluding it from your finishing kit order. I don't
> have the numbers in front of me, but I think the "credit" from vans
was
> around $325-$375, and the cost of the canopy and shipping from Todd
> Silver will be well over $500. Remember that Todd's prices no longer
> include shipping, so be prepared to add around $100 to $150 to his
> prices.
>
> Todd Wenzel
> Delafield, WI USA
> RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
> TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com
Listers,
I've mentioned this thread on the list to Todd Silver. He is a member
of my EAA Chapter. He asked me to forward his explanation of what
transpired with Todd Wenzel's canopy. It is because of the problems he
had with this one particular trucking company that he dropped the free
shipping. FYI, Todd Silver had to "eat" the shipping on the canopies
which arrived at Todd Wenzel's damaged. He was not able to to even
collect insurance on the second damaged canopy. It seems that he was not
able to get one of his other trucking firms to deliver to Todd Wenzel's
area. His comments to me are below. Charlie Kuss RV-8A fuselage Boca
Raton, Fl.
Charlie,
I sent Todd a canopy. The crate looked like a forklift blade went
through it. I sent him a second canopy. The crate looked like it was
dragged from FL to WI. I sent him a third canopy. It got there
undamaged. He was upset that he had to wait so long to get his canopy. I
guess I would
be too.
I stopped prepaying shipping. I now ask that the customer pays for the
shipping when the crate arrives in good condition. Since I started doing
this I haven't had one problem with trucking companies trashing crates.
Todd Silver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
Glen,
Thanks for your excellent info. Your assessment of "local relative wind"
being parallel to lower wing skin regardless of AOA seems valid to me.
Saves a lot of "Rube Goldberg" options that I was spouting out.
Where did you find this "short mast pitot tube" and "Gretz mast"? Brand
name, part number, which company sells? Sorry for the uneducated question
but I haven't done any shopping for these parts yet (wings not yet mounted).
Could you give a description of where you mounted "sufficiently far back" -
maybe a measurement aft to to the edge of wing skin just in front of flap,
and a distance outboard from side of fuselage or that stubby section of skin
that sticks out from fuselage that the wing slides over when installed?
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "glen j matejcek" <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
Subject: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
>
> David-
>
> Re: "As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot tube is the primary
> cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed straight into the pitot
> tube at high AOA),..."
>
> One of the several reasons I chose a short mast pitot tube on a Gretz
mount
> is that the pitot pressure orifice is sufficiently far back along the wing
> chord and close to the wing skin that the local relative wind should
always
> be essentially parallel to the wing skin / pitot axis. If memory serves,
> the Cessna pitot tubes tend to be mounted relatively forward along the
> chord, perhaps inducing the errrors you speak of....
>
> Glen
> -8 QB, fuse upside down
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (was: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT) |
>
>Amen to Kevin's comments on flutter. It's a bit of a black art kinda
>thing to predict accurately.
I guess I started this thread but unintentionally. I really meant to
suggest that the GO OUT AND TRY IT proclamation is dangerous. Thinking,
flight planning, theorizing etc help prevent nasty outcomes.
But while on the topic of flutter analysis and other 21st century hoodoo,
let me mention what I have experienced. I did computer simulation using a
piece of software developed by IBM called GPSS. General Purpose Simulation
System. I simulated manufacturing facilities so that different process and
machine arrangements could be tried without the enormous expense of
actually changing the factory. The 'models' as they are called are not
the real thing, of course and could easily be off. Even if some are way
off, it is still cheaper and faster than rearranging the factories.
Simulations are not analyses, however. It is something of a black
art. Hollman and others are surely wrong to refer to them as 'flutter
analysis' as if it were always correct. I believe the same applies to
computer studies of aerodynamics which obviate the need for much of the
wind tunnel testing of the past.
My opinion is that any kind of pre-flight thinking, computer use etc that
can be done should be done in an effort to save lives and lovely little
airplanes.
DON'T JUST GO OUT AND TRY IT!!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
I agree with Michael. I wouldn't want all the controls in the rear seat.
If you do decide to install them, maybe put in a "co pilot disconnect"
switch to shut off the capability of the rear stick.
FWIW, the Infinity grips are great. I loved mine, and would put them in
again.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Brooks" <kdbrv8r(at)charter.net>
Subject: RV-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>
> I would appreciate some info from other Infinity Stick Grip users. What
> length of wire was required for front and rear grips in the RV-8 (for
> ordering purposes). They come with 3 feet, and it's $2.00 per foot over
> that. Measuring from the rear seat stick, I came up with 11 feet, worst
> case scenario. Stick button/switch functions will be the same for pilot
> and rear seater. Thanks in advance.
>
> Ken Brooks
> Roscoe, IL
> N1903P resvd - starting panel and stick wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | requesting advice on spark plug tools |
Our local RV group is considering adding to our tool collection, and I'm
looking for advice/experience on spark plug maintenance tools.
Among the tools that we collectively own is a condition inspection kit that
includes a spark plug vibrator cleaner, a small "canvas-bag" type abrasive
cleaner, and an inexpensive gapping tool.
What we're looking at upgrading to is a professional cleaner/tester such as
the Champion CT-4754AV. Sacremento Skyranch carries a similar unit, the
Vixen SPCT100, that is less than half the price (looks suspiciously similar
to the one sold by ATS under their name). Anyone have experience with either
of these? Is it really worth the big bucks to get one? I don't much like the
canvas bag cleaner and we don't currently have any way to test them either.
The other thing we're looking at is a gap-setting tool. The Champion model
2500 looks to be pretty neat -- stick the gauge in there and pull the handle
and you're done. Is it really that simple? If so this would be a great
addition to our collection.
Any thoughts from people who have experience with these tools would be
helpful. Our group will be discussing this at the next meeting.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
1) I've heard a lot of opinions that you should use the Andair fuel
selector instead of the Van's stock fuel selector since the Andair one is
much smoother to operate. I'm just getting started with my fuselage,
sorting through the hardware bags, and I tried out the stock Van's
selector -- it's very smooth through the full range of motion. Is the
Andair selector *that* much better and worth the extra money?
2) I'm not an A&P, so go easy on me...when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert and
is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as
I've seen).
3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A.
Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
David
You can buy short mounts and heated pitot tubes from Warren Gretz at
Gretz Aero. See the RV Yeller Pages for contact info.
The Gretz mount is a good, well proven way to add a heated pitot
tube, if you need one. I recommend that if you do this, that you
don't put the static source on the tube, as that has been shown on
some RVs to lead to static system errors. We don't need heated
static ports, even if we fly IFR. Unheated aft fuselage static ports
have a very good service history on many aircraft types. You aren't
going to collect ice back there unless you decide to do sustained
sideslips with large rudder deflections.
Note: The Gretz pitot tube mount puts the pitot tube in about the
same location as Van's design because there is nothing wrong with
Van's design. You are trying to solve a problem (pitot system error)
that probably doesn't exist. I have seen results of flight testing
of quite a few pitot-static systems, and the results match the theory
- i.e. pitot system errors are very unlikely (except for leaks).
Static system errors are the real problem.
Glen is correct that the airflow under the wing will be roughly
aligned with the pitot tube. I've seen results from tests done by
NACA that showed that as long as the local airflow is aligned within
about 15 degrees of the pitot tube the resulting error will be very
small. Van's pitot tube location easily meets this criteria.
If you are looking for a mod to make to the airplane just because you
like building more than flying, then fill your boots. But if you are
thinking about moving the pitot tube to improve its accuracy you are
wasting your time and money.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>Glen,
>
>Thanks for your excellent info. Your assessment of "local relative wind"
>being parallel to lower wing skin regardless of AOA seems valid to me.
>Saves a lot of "Rube Goldberg" options that I was spouting out.
>
>Where did you find this "short mast pitot tube" and "Gretz mast"? Brand
>name, part number, which company sells? Sorry for the uneducated question
>but I haven't done any shopping for these parts yet (wings not yet mounted).
>Could you give a description of where you mounted "sufficiently far back" -
>maybe a measurement aft to to the edge of wing skin just in front of flap,
>and a distance outboard from side of fuselage or that stubby section of skin
>that sticks out from fuselage that the wing slides over when installed?
>
>David Carter
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "glen j matejcek" <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
>
>
>>
>> David-
>>
>> Re: "As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot tube is the primary
>> cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed straight into the pitot
>> tube at high AOA),..."
>>
>> One of the several reasons I chose a short mast pitot tube on a Gretz
>mount
>> is that the pitot pressure orifice is sufficiently far back along the wing
>> chord and close to the wing skin that the local relative wind should
>always
>> be essentially parallel to the wing skin / pitot axis. If memory serves,
>> the Cessna pitot tubes tend to be mounted relatively forward along the
>> chord, perhaps inducing the errrors you speak of....
>>
>> Glen
> > -8 QB, fuse upside down
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: vertical stabilizer offset |
Hi Dave-
Yeah, I noticed it in the plans revisions on page 19 of the second 2002
RVator- I don't see a dimension for the offset, it looks like it's set by the
F-781 attach plate (pre-punched of course?!) but looks like about 1/8" or
3/16" to the left... ...oh yeah, and I saw this about a month after I
drilled the V.S. spar for my -6A!!
From the PossumWorks
Mark
Dave Ford wrote:
>
> A builder of an RV7 I met recently told me his preview plans showed an
> offset for the vertical stabilizer when mounted to the fuselage. Can
> anyone verify this and what the offset measurement is?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
Ken and others,
I saw your post to the rv-list about your Infinity grips. I have a
couple thoughts that I'll pass along. I'm building a -6, so adjust your
thought accordingly. First, think out your switches carefully and while
looking at a picture, envision using the switches for each function.
There are physical options for switches that have to be though out.
Momentary, (as in push to talk, comm flip flop and starter engage), push
for on push for off (as for landing lights and/or wig-wag), lever with
and without momentary feature (flaps). For flaps, you have the option
of momentary on both the up and the down positions. The guy at Infinity
suggests momentary only on the down, thinking that on a go-around, you
want the flaps up and have other things to think about other than
holding that switch.
I mention this, because when you call your order in, these questions
have to be answered, and you wouldn't want to be rushed and make a wrong
decision. The switches are hard to replace because of the confines of
the handle and lack of a service loop in the wire.
The length of the wire is something I should have more carefully
considered. I ordered two (2) feet extra and is just enough (on a -6)
to run the wires down the handle, loop around the control tube and into
a bulkhead CPC plug to allow stick removal. From the CPC to a meeting
place where the wires from both handles come together under the
passenger seat. (It is not going to be fun when I have to go in and
make changes to the wiring.)
Some switch functions have to be isolated so that only one handle
works at a time. To accomplish this, I isolated the ground return
through a single pole switch on the panel. This opens a bag of worms
where you have press on/press off switches on the handle. There is no
simple way to tell the state of a switch when changing the handle
authority, therefore except for flaps (lever type switch), my second
handle is not wired with those functions that have a push on/push off
switch.
One last thought, the flap and trim switches activate relays that
direct power to the respective servos. The ground path for the relay(s)
goes through the SPST (stick authority) switch on the panel. You can
find articles in the archives on wiring your own relay box or buy the
relay circuitry from available sources. Someone also mentioned the use
of a simpler solid state switching device, but I haven't hear from
anyone who actually made one work.
Good Luck with your project
Tom Barnes -6
Buffalo Grove, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | alternate canopies |
Sorry, needed one more "ell"
http://www.lazy8.net/rv8.html
john
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Huft
Subject: RE: RV-List: alternate canopies
I just posted a new progress picture that shows the "real dark" tint that
Todd can get nowadays.
www.lazy8.net/rv8.htm
Strictly a day-VFR airplane! From the inside, it is about equal to an
average pair of sunglasses.
John, Pagosa Springs, CO
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of James Freeman
Subject: Re: RV-List: alternate canopies
On Wednesday, September 4, 2002, at 02:21 PM, glen j matejcek wrote:
> Does anyone have feedback on the cost/quality/weight
> advantages/disadvantages of various vendors compared to Van's?
Hi Glen.
I don't have any experience with the "stock" Van's canopy, but I am
happy with the quality/fit/price of my RV8 canopy from Todd's Custom
Canopies. Very little trimming, optically good, and available in a
slightly darker tint than Van's.
James Freeman
RV8 QB N9TN reserved
slowly finishing....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
> 2) I'm not an A&P, so go easy on me...when would you use an
> AN365-1032 nut
> as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert
> and
> is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far
> as
> I've seen).
>
> 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and
> AN365-428A.
> Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any
> difference?
Dan,
I'm wondering if this is just a typo? I sorted out my fuselage kit
yesterday and there are only 1032 and 428 part numbers for the AN365
nuts (some of the other sizes have 'A' suffixes, though). I also went
back to the wing kit and found the same. Lastly, I went online to to
Van's "The List" and did a search - only 1032 and 428 are listed. I
suspect the green vs yellow inserts are just a different manufacturer.
Jim Daniels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Roll Bar - plan discrepancies |
Folks,
I'm in the process of installing my roll bar...RV6A slider QB #60431.
Here's my problem:
Plans sheet SC-1B (as well as old preview plan SC-1) shows the aft edge
of the roll bar (not base plate) 33 1/4" aft of the forward face of the
firewall and 3 1/8" aft of the 604 bulkhead riser.
Plans sheet SC-4 (old - preview plans...the new ones don't show it at
all) also shows that the base plates for the roll bar weldments are 5
1/2" from front to back.
The base plates for my roll bar weldments are only 5 1/4" from front to
back. If I place the aft edge of the roll bar (again - not the base
plate) as far aft as called for, the forward bolt hole for the base
plate to canopy deck attachment falls around the forward 604 bulkhead
riser plate.
What is the correct dimension for placement of the roll bar? Do I have
an incorrectly assembled roll bar? Did I miss a plans change?
I have a digital photo in case anyone thinks they know but aren't
sure...
Please advise,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Imfairings(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Primer for fiberglass parts |
Ron,
Use whatever you are going to use on the plane. Wipe with acetone, sand with
about 320 grit paper and squirt away. This is assuming the pin holes have
been filled.
Bob
Fairings-Etc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
> - I'm just getting started with my fuselage,
> sorting through the hardware bags, and I tried out the stock Van's
> selector -- it's very smooth through the full range of motion. Is the
> Andair selector *that* much better and worth the extra money?
I'm using the stock unit from Van's and have found absolutely nothing wrong
with it. Of course, it has only 130 hours TTSN and is a couple of years old,
so I have no long-term history on it.
> ..when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
> as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert and
> is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as
> I've seen).
>
> 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A.
> Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference?
>
I have no idea what the "A" designation is for. The color usually pertains to
the manufacturer. Unless some specification calls out one versus the other, I
would consider them to be interchangeable.
Bill Marvel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Thomas Yeager" <tdy(at)forcomm.net> |
| Subject: | Aerospace Logic Guages |
RV LIst,
I'm posting this for a friend with a RV6. We seen the Aerospace Logic
egt guage, at the Oswego RV forum. He is interested about installing it.
Has anybody used or had any dealing with them. Thanks in advance.
Tom Yeager
RV8 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary & Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> 1) I've heard a lot of opinions that you should use the Andair fuel
> selector instead of the Van's stock fuel selector since the Andair one is
> much smoother to operate. I'm just getting started with my fuselage,
> sorting through the hardware bags, and I tried out the stock Van's
> selector -- it's very smooth through the full range of motion. Is the
> Andair selector *that* much better and worth the extra money?
Some people prefer the pricey Andair valve over the standard. Both work well
and I would suggest using the supplied valve and saving the money for some
other item.
>
>
> 2) I'm not an A&P, so go easy on me...when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
> as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert and
> is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as
> I've seen).
As far as I know the green or yellow insert AN365-1032 are the same except for
the color. I have never seen the "A" suffex applied to these nuts.
>
>
> 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A.
> Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference?
The AN365-428 is a drilled shank bolt for use with castelated nuts and a cotter
key. The AN365-428A has no holes drilled anywhere and is for use with fiber or
metal self locking nuts.
Gary Zilik
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Malecha" <azflyer(at)theriver.com> |
Does anyone know of an RV8 QB project either started or not started for
sale.
AL Malecha
www.azflyer(at)theriver.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary & Carolyn Zilik <zilik(at)bewellnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
>
Open mouth, insert foot. Please disregard the following reply. I totally misread
the question. Sorry
Gary
>
> > 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A.
> > Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference?
>
> The AN365-428 is a drilled shank bolt for use with castelated nuts and a cotter
> key. The AN365-428A has no holes drilled anywhere and is for use with fiber or
> metal self locking nuts.
>
> Gary Zilik
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
,
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
Bill,
I think you might have nailed it...probably just a different manufacturer.
I'm guessing Van's found a mfr that makes thinner (and thus LIGHTER)
nuts...still haven't called or emailed them to confirm that, but I suspect
you're right.
Anyway, here are some photos which show the obvious physical differences
between the thicker "A" and the thinner "non-A" nuts:
http://www.rvproject.com/nuts.html
)_( Dan
> > ..when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
> > as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert
and
> > is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as
> > I've seen).
> >
> > 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and
AN365-428A.
> > Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any
difference?
> >
>
> I have no idea what the "A" designation is for. The color usually
pertains to
> the manufacturer. Unless some specification calls out one versus the
other, I
> would consider them to be interchangeable.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
> Bill,
>
> I think you might have nailed it...probably just a different manufacturer.
> I'm guessing Van's found a mfr that makes thinner (and thus LIGHTER)
> nuts...still haven't called or emailed them to confirm that, but I suspect
> you're right.
>
> Anyway, here are some photos which show the obvious physical differences
> between the thicker "A" and the thinner "non-A" nuts:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/nuts.html
Dan;
In the photos you show, the nuts where only the hex is a different height but the
overall nut height
is the same, this is simply a manufacturer difference. i.e. Company "A" vs Company
"B". In the
photos which you show one nut as being physically about half the height of the
other, the full
height nut is a "standard" nut the half height nut is a "shear" nut only to be
used to secure a bolt
used in shear and NEVER to be used in a tension application. These are the equivalent
to standard
bolts and "shear" bolts which also have thin heads.
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Andair fuel selector valve |
I think the big advantage of the Andair valve over the one that comes from
Vans is that it has a lock-out so you can't accidentally turn it off when
switching tanks. It has a button you have to lift to turn it to off.
Terry
RV-8A #80729
Canopy
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
| From: | "Brandon Dixon" <dixon(at)cs.ua.edu> |
The photo looks like the difference in a 364 (Shear nut) and a 365
(regular nut).....
Brandon Dixon
-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com]
rv7-list(at)matronics.com; SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types)
Bill,
I think you might have nailed it...probably just a different
manufacturer.
I'm guessing Van's found a mfr that makes thinner (and thus LIGHTER)
nuts...still haven't called or emailed them to confirm that, but I
suspect
you're right.
Anyway, here are some photos which show the obvious physical differences
between the thicker "A" and the thinner "non-A" nuts:
http://www.rvproject.com/nuts.html
)_( Dan
> > ..when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
> > as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow
insert
and
> > is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as
far as
> > I've seen).
> >
> > 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and
AN365-428A.
> > Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any
difference?
> >
>
> I have no idea what the "A" designation is for. The color usually
pertains to
> the manufacturer. Unless some specification calls out one versus the
other, I
> would consider them to be interchangeable.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Roll Bar - plan discrepancies |
Ralph;
I did this bit on a slowbuild last winter and I have to think that the roll
bar is a bit flexible in how it is positioned. In other words a 1/2" forward
or back won't matter much if the fit to the other components in the area is
OK. There is ample trim material in the canopy to ensure that you can
develop a good fit regardless of a 1/2" change in the roll bar position.
Dwg SC-2 gives yet another dimension - section C-C says 2 1/2" from the aft
face of the 604 to the centreline of the roll bar tube. No surprise that
your roll bar base plate is a different than the plans - Van's suppliers do
change a things a bit sometimes.
Two issues to watch for. As per C-C of dwg SC-4, make sure that the forward
AN3 bolt in the base plate is located to leave enough room to get the nut on
forward of the front side of the 604. I don't think the plans give a
dimension for this hole so its a "suit yourself" situation. Likewise for the
aft AN4 bolt. These nuts are tricky to get on at the best of times - so
choose a roll bar location and bolt locations that will cause the least
added grief!
The other thing to watch is the side length of the F-6106 top forward
fuselage skin. Do a trial fit and make sure that the overlap over the roll
bar is what you need for however you plan to do the windscreen, canopy,
canopy skirt, fuse skin join. (They all meet just about there.) Placing the
roll bar too far back or trimming the aft side of the skin will leave a gap
that you will have to make up somehow. (Guess how I know...)
Jim Oke
RV-6A slowwww build, finally painting!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Roll Bar - plan discrepancies
>
> Folks,
>
> I'm in the process of installing my roll bar...RV6A slider QB #60431.
>
> Here's my problem:
>
> Plans sheet SC-1B (as well as old preview plan SC-1) shows the aft edge
> of the roll bar (not base plate) 33 1/4" aft of the forward face of the
> firewall and 3 1/8" aft of the 604 bulkhead riser.
>
> Plans sheet SC-4 (old - preview plans...the new ones don't show it at
> all) also shows that the base plates for the roll bar weldments are 5
> 1/2" from front to back.
>
> The base plates for my roll bar weldments are only 5 1/4" from front to
> back. If I place the aft edge of the roll bar (again - not the base
> plate) as far aft as called for, the forward bolt hole for the base
> plate to canopy deck attachment falls around the forward 604 bulkhead
> riser plate.
>
> What is the correct dimension for placement of the roll bar? Do I have
> an incorrectly assembled roll bar? Did I miss a plans change?
>
> I have a digital photo in case anyone thinks they know but aren't
> sure...
>
> Please advise,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
Dan;
Looking at your photos, I think that both of your 10-32 nuts are MS20365 (AN365)
nuts but from different suppliers.
The "thin 428" nut I suspect is actually an MS20364 (= AN364) nut. Van's
supplies just a few of these - the canopy roller bolts come to mind - so
check your count of these ones. The "fat 428A nut" looks like a garden
variety MS20365 (= AN 365) nut which is used in much larger quantities in
the aircraft.
Have a look at the Wicks online catalog (www.wicksaircraft.com) at page 85
for the difference between a 364 and 365 nut.
Jim Oke
RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
;
Subject: Re: RV-List: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types)
>
> Bill,
>
> I think you might have nailed it...probably just a different manufacturer.
> I'm guessing Van's found a mfr that makes thinner (and thus LIGHTER)
> nuts...still haven't called or emailed them to confirm that, but I suspect
> you're right.
>
> Anyway, here are some photos which show the obvious physical differences
> between the thicker "A" and the thinner "non-A" nuts:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/nuts.html
>
> )_( Dan
>
> > > ..when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
> > > as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert
> and
> > > is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far
as
> > > I've seen).
> > >
> > > 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and
> AN365-428A.
> > > Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any
> difference?
> > >
> >
> > I have no idea what the "A" designation is for. The color usually
> pertains to
> > the manufacturer. Unless some specification calls out one versus the
> other, I
> > would consider them to be interchangeable.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Kevin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Kevin
Subject: Dual Tanks
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv8r300@attbi.com.09.08.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
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--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: requesting advice on spark plug tools |
The old Champion spark plug cleaner/testers were pretty hard to beat.
I dont have any of them but was alway able to borrow a champion. The bag types
look a little "cheesey", but I have never used one.
I run some platinum plugs for many years and never do anything to them. The
problem I see with the champion is storage, since you will not be using it that
often.
But if that is not a problem, I would go for it. Also you might look on EBAY for
one in the automotive. Just do a search once in a while and see what comes up.
A used on would be as good as a new one and there is really nothing that cannot
be fixed in one if it needed it...
Phil in Litchfield, IL
Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> Our local RV group is considering adding to our tool collection, and I'm
> looking for advice/experience on spark plug maintenance tools.
>
> Among the tools that we collectively own is a condition inspection kit that
> includes a spark plug vibrator cleaner, a small "canvas-bag" type abrasive
> cleaner, and an inexpensive gapping tool.
>
> What we're looking at upgrading to is a professional cleaner/tester such as
> the Champion CT-4754AV. Sacremento Skyranch carries a similar unit, the
> Vixen SPCT100, that is less than half the price (looks suspiciously similar
> to the one sold by ATS under their name). Anyone have experience with either
> of these? Is it really worth the big bucks to get one? I don't much like the
> canvas bag cleaner and we don't currently have any way to test them either.
>
> The other thing we're looking at is a gap-setting tool. The Champion model
> 2500 looks to be pretty neat -- stick the gauge in there and pull the handle
> and you're done. Is it really that simple? If so this would be a great
> addition to our collection.
>
> Any thoughts from people who have experience with these tools would be
> helpful. Our group will be discussing this at the next meeting.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> www.vanshomewing.org
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ David Fried ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: David Fried
Subject: C-GZDF, Taperwing 6
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/davefried@rogers.com.09.08.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
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Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
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Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
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--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | EIS 4000 manual - online ? |
Is there a user's manual or operating manual in a file for the EIS 4000 ? I
couldn't see one on their webpage.
Thanks,
Amit.
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "gretz aero" <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
Hello all,
I do handle heated pitot tubes and manufacture my heated pitot tube mounting
bracket kits that are designed to install easily on any RV.
You can see my Gretz Aero website of parts and kits at
http://www.gretzaero.com I am also available to answer questions at
info(at)gretzaero.com or you can contact me on my cell phone that is on at all
times at 720-308-0010 or leave me a message on 303-770-3811
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
>
> David
>
> You can buy short mounts and heated pitot tubes from Warren Gretz at
> Gretz Aero. See the RV Yeller Pages for contact info.
>
> The Gretz mount is a good, well proven way to add a heated pitot
> tube, if you need one. I recommend that if you do this, that you
> don't put the static source on the tube, as that has been shown on
> some RVs to lead to static system errors. We don't need heated
> static ports, even if we fly IFR. Unheated aft fuselage static ports
> have a very good service history on many aircraft types. You aren't
> going to collect ice back there unless you decide to do sustained
> sideslips with large rudder deflections.
>
> Note: The Gretz pitot tube mount puts the pitot tube in about the
> same location as Van's design because there is nothing wrong with
> Van's design. You are trying to solve a problem (pitot system error)
> that probably doesn't exist. I have seen results of flight testing
> of quite a few pitot-static systems, and the results match the theory
> - i.e. pitot system errors are very unlikely (except for leaks).
> Static system errors are the real problem.
>
> Glen is correct that the airflow under the wing will be roughly
> aligned with the pitot tube. I've seen results from tests done by
> NACA that showed that as long as the local airflow is aligned within
> about 15 degrees of the pitot tube the resulting error will be very
> small. Van's pitot tube location easily meets this criteria.
>
> If you are looking for a mod to make to the airplane just because you
> like building more than flying, then fill your boots. But if you are
> thinking about moving the pitot tube to improve its accuracy you are
> wasting your time and money.
>
> Take care,
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>
> >
> >Glen,
> >
> >Thanks for your excellent info. Your assessment of "local relative wind"
> >being parallel to lower wing skin regardless of AOA seems valid to me.
> >Saves a lot of "Rube Goldberg" options that I was spouting out.
> >
> >Where did you find this "short mast pitot tube" and "Gretz mast"? Brand
> >name, part number, which company sells? Sorry for the uneducated
question
> >but I haven't done any shopping for these parts yet (wings not yet
mounted).
> >Could you give a description of where you mounted "sufficiently far
back" -
> >maybe a measurement aft to to the edge of wing skin just in front of
flap,
> >and a distance outboard from side of fuselage or that stubby section of
skin
> >that sticks out from fuselage that the wing slides over when installed?
> >
> >David Carter
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "glen j matejcek" <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
> >
> >
> >>
> >> David-
> >>
> >> Re: "As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot tube is the primary
> >> cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed straight into the
pitot
> >> tube at high AOA),..."
> >>
> >> One of the several reasons I chose a short mast pitot tube on a Gretz
> >mount
> >> is that the pitot pressure orifice is sufficiently far back along the
wing
> >> chord and close to the wing skin that the local relative wind should
> >always
> >> be essentially parallel to the wing skin / pitot axis. If memory
serves,
> >> the Cessna pitot tubes tend to be mounted relatively forward along the
> >> chord, perhaps inducing the errrors you speak of....
> >>
> >> Glen
> > > -8 QB, fuse upside down
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
I recently installed the Gretz Aero heated pitot (sans static) and was very
pleased both with Gretz and the quality of the product. I got the
RV-friendly mounting bracket kit and that made things very, very
straightforward. If you can cut a decent hole in your wing skin, the rest
is pretty much idiot-proof. I can vouch for Gretz Aero producing good stuff
in that department.
You might get the install kit and think to yourself, man this is simple
stuff, I could have made this myself easily...but for me it was worth the
money to save the hassle and head scratching.
Here are some pictures of the installation process, in case anybody wants
'em for reference:
http://www.rvproject.com/20020722.html#pitot
http://www.rvproject.com/20020724.html
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "gretz aero" <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
>
> Hello all,
> I do handle heated pitot tubes and manufacture my heated pitot tube
mounting
> bracket kits that are designed to install easily on any RV.
> You can see my Gretz Aero website of parts and kits at
> http://www.gretzaero.com I am also available to answer questions at
> info(at)gretzaero.com or you can contact me on my cell phone that is on at
all
> times at 720-308-0010 or leave me a message on 303-770-3811
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
>
>
> >
> > David
> >
> > You can buy short mounts and heated pitot tubes from Warren Gretz at
> > Gretz Aero. See the RV Yeller Pages for contact info.
> >
> > The Gretz mount is a good, well proven way to add a heated pitot
> > tube, if you need one. I recommend that if you do this, that you
> > don't put the static source on the tube, as that has been shown on
> > some RVs to lead to static system errors. We don't need heated
> > static ports, even if we fly IFR. Unheated aft fuselage static ports
> > have a very good service history on many aircraft types. You aren't
> > going to collect ice back there unless you decide to do sustained
> > sideslips with large rudder deflections.
> >
> > Note: The Gretz pitot tube mount puts the pitot tube in about the
> > same location as Van's design because there is nothing wrong with
> > Van's design. You are trying to solve a problem (pitot system error)
> > that probably doesn't exist. I have seen results of flight testing
> > of quite a few pitot-static systems, and the results match the theory
> > - i.e. pitot system errors are very unlikely (except for leaks).
> > Static system errors are the real problem.
> >
> > Glen is correct that the airflow under the wing will be roughly
> > aligned with the pitot tube. I've seen results from tests done by
> > NACA that showed that as long as the local airflow is aligned within
> > about 15 degrees of the pitot tube the resulting error will be very
> > small. Van's pitot tube location easily meets this criteria.
> >
> > If you are looking for a mod to make to the airplane just because you
> > like building more than flying, then fill your boots. But if you are
> > thinking about moving the pitot tube to improve its accuracy you are
> > wasting your time and money.
> >
> > Take care,
> >
> > Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Glen,
> > >
> > >Thanks for your excellent info. Your assessment of "local relative
wind"
> > >being parallel to lower wing skin regardless of AOA seems valid to me.
> > >Saves a lot of "Rube Goldberg" options that I was spouting out.
> > >
> > >Where did you find this "short mast pitot tube" and "Gretz mast"?
Brand
> > >name, part number, which company sells? Sorry for the uneducated
> question
> > >but I haven't done any shopping for these parts yet (wings not yet
> mounted).
> > >Could you give a description of where you mounted "sufficiently far
> back" -
> > >maybe a measurement aft to to the edge of wing skin just in front of
> flap,
> > >and a distance outboard from side of fuselage or that stubby section of
> skin
> > >that sticks out from fuselage that the wing slides over when installed?
> > >
> > >David Carter
> > >
> > >----- Original Message -----
> > >From: "glen j matejcek" <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
> > >To:
> > >Subject: RV-List: Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton
> > >
> > >
>
> > >>
> > >> David-
> > >>
> > >> Re: "As I believe that a fixed, single hole pitot tube is the
primary
> > >> cause of the low speed errors (air is not directed straight into the
> pitot
> > >> tube at high AOA),..."
> > >>
> > >> One of the several reasons I chose a short mast pitot tube on a
Gretz
> > >mount
> > >> is that the pitot pressure orifice is sufficiently far back along
the
> wing
> > >> chord and close to the wing skin that the local relative wind should
> > >always
> > >> be essentially parallel to the wing skin / pitot axis. If memory
> serves,
> > >> the Cessna pitot tubes tend to be mounted relatively forward along
the
> > >> chord, perhaps inducing the errrors you speak of....
> > >>
> > >> Glen
> > > > -8 QB, fuse upside down
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Earl Fortner <efortner(at)vnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: requesting advice on spark plug tools |
I bought the bag type from Northern Hydralics and it works great.
Earl RV4
"Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" wrote:
>
> The old Champion spark plug cleaner/testers were pretty hard to beat.
> I dont have any of them but was alway able to borrow a champion. The bag types
> look a little "cheesey", but I have never used one.
>
> I run some platinum plugs for many years and never do anything to them. The
> problem I see with the champion is storage, since you will not be using it that
> often.
>
> But if that is not a problem, I would go for it. Also you might look on EBAY
for
> one in the automotive. Just do a search once in a while and see what comes up.
>
> A used on would be as good as a new one and there is really nothing that cannot
> be fixed in one if it needed it...
>
> Phil in Litchfield, IL
>
> Randall Henderson wrote:
>
> >
> > Our local RV group is considering adding to our tool collection, and I'm
> > looking for advice/experience on spark plug maintenance tools.
> >
> > Among the tools that we collectively own is a condition inspection kit that
> > includes a spark plug vibrator cleaner, a small "canvas-bag" type abrasive
> > cleaner, and an inexpensive gapping tool.
> >
> > What we're looking at upgrading to is a professional cleaner/tester such as
> > the Champion CT-4754AV. Sacremento Skyranch carries a similar unit, the
> > Vixen SPCT100, that is less than half the price (looks suspiciously similar
> > to the one sold by ATS under their name). Anyone have experience with either
> > of these? Is it really worth the big bucks to get one? I don't much like the
> > canvas bag cleaner and we don't currently have any way to test them either.
> >
> > The other thing we're looking at is a gap-setting tool. The Champion model
> > 2500 looks to be pretty neat -- stick the gauge in there and pull the handle
> > and you're done. Is it really that simple? If so this would be a great
> > addition to our collection.
> >
> > Any thoughts from people who have experience with these tools would be
> > helpful. Our group will be discussing this at the next meeting.
> >
> > Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
> > Portland, OR
> > www.vanshomewing.org
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jollyd <jollyd(at)ipns.com> |
there was one on the white p[ages this morning...I also have a RV8A qb
99/95%completed if you are interisted...
Al Malecha wrote:
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Al Malecha"
>
> Does anyone know of an RV8 QB project either started or not started for
> sale.
> AL Malecha
> www.azflyer(at)theriver.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Carter" <jcarter8(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical Gyros for Sale |
I'm selling my two electrical gyros, ie, the DG and artificial horizon.
These are RC Allen gyros, each of which have been run regularly until
removed from my airplane two weeks ago in my latest panel redesign. They
are not under warranty from the manufacturer (actually the DG still has
a few weeks of warranty left), but I will guarantee them for thirty
days to afford the buyer a chance to inspect them. Each is supplied with
the appropriate connector, so all one has to do is splice the two
wires to power and ground. The horizon has the RV panel tilt of of 8
degrees installed and is placarded as such on the side by the
manufacturer. The DG was purchased on 9-21-01, the horizon on 8-28-00.
The new price for these gyros is about $1,850 each. I'm asking $1,500
each.
Jerry Carter
RV-8A
150 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Air-Conditioning in an RV6 |
Putting an air conditioner in is completey doable. Wouldn't be any heavier
than an inverted oil system. Look for a system out of a very small car.
There are custom aftermarket auto kits available in the states.
Some one indicated C of G would be a problem but I've noticed that many
people put Hartzell constant speed props on RV6's which weigh some thing
like 50 lbs more than a wood prop and look how far forward that weight is.
If an RV6 can handle that range of C of G then an air conditioner should be
no problem.
Are you going with a wood prop? C of G would be of no concern. Going with a
constant speed? Use one of the new composite props that are something like
twenty pounds lighter than the Hartzell constant speed prop. C of G would be
of no concern. You'll be able to find a complete air conditioning system for
under 20 lbs.
To each his own, if you want it, do it.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Canada
no air conditioner required
go ahead and archive
> David Roseblade wrote:
>
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > Has anyone contemplated putting an AC in an RV6?, we fly out here in the
> > Persian Gulf, where the temp is HOT ie today was 40 C + 60% humidity,
our
> > 1976 vintage! PA 28's have a factory fit AC, but are not that effective.
> >
> > I would probably install a lightweight Japanese compressor driven by the
> > engine (dual pulley flywheels are available) an electrically operated
> > evaporator door with a switch on the throttle quadrant which would cut
off
> > the compressor and retract the evaporator door for take-off (should I
forget
> > to do it). If there are any installations installed I would be
interested on
> > what parts were used and effectiveness.
> >
> > n.b Only needed below 8000'
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > David Roseblade
> >
> > RV6A - Finish kit - working canopy in air conditioned comfort.
> > Dubai, UAE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Regarding RV-7A empennage parts with vinyl coating |
I did not like the rust underneath the powder coating on the few steel parts
that were done when I got my finishing kit. This was a few years ago when
Van first started shipping stuff with the powder coat. I much prefer my own
quality control cleaning and prepping, then priming with super korapon, then
painting with Sherwin Williams Sunfire. I feel no production line can match
the quality that I have put into every piece of my airplane. If doing
another kit, I will order without the powder coat. I understand it is an
option but Van will not reduce the price. Oh well.....
Norman Hunger
RV6A
West coast of Canada where moisture is a major concern.
> Like I said in the opening line "it's (arguably) probably.......
>
> That pretty much sums it up.
>
> Mike
> >
> > > What you're seeing is the powder coating. It's (arguably) probably
the
> best
> > > coating you can have on your steel parts.
> >
> > I don't want to start a fight, but just out of curiosity, I would like
to
> > hear your view of the facts (the testable hypothesis that is science)
that
> > supports this statement. Or did you really mean IMHO (religion or
belief
> not
> > necessarily based on factual evidence)?
> >
> > -GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Kitz" <JKITZ1(at)columbus.rr.com> |
Listers;
I suspect the pins in the impulse mag have become worn since it is
taking some cranking to start it all of a sudden. When the Sears Die
Hard garden tractor battery starts to give out, the engine starts. I
think that is an indication of the pins being worn.
Are mags very difficult to repair? Where are parts available? If I do
not do it, who repairs them and what does it cost?
The mags were new about 450 hours ago.
John Kitz
N721JK
Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air-Conditioning in an RV6 |
Norman wrote:
>
>
> Putting an air conditioner in is completey doable. Wouldn't be any heavier
> than an inverted oil system. Look for a system out of a very small car.
> There are custom aftermarket auto kits available in the states.
>
> Some one indicated C of G would be a problem but I've noticed that many
> people put Hartzell constant speed props on RV6's which weigh some thing
> like 50 lbs more than a wood prop and look how far forward that weight is.
> If an RV6 can handle that range of C of G then an air conditioner should be
> no problem.
>
> Are you going with a wood prop? C of G would be of no concern. Going with a
> constant speed? Use one of the new composite props that are something like
> twenty pounds lighter than the Hartzell constant speed prop. C of G would be
> of no concern. You'll be able to find a complete air conditioning system for
> under 20 lbs.
>
> To each his own, if you want it, do it.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Canada
> no air conditioner required
> go ahead and archive
>
> > David Roseblade wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > > Listers,
> > >
> > > Has anyone contemplated putting an AC in an RV6?, we fly out here in the
> > > Persian Gulf, where the temp is HOT ie today was 40 C + 60% humidity,
> our
> > > 1976 vintage! PA 28's have a factory fit AC, but are not that effective.
> > >
> > > I would probably install a lightweight Japanese compressor driven by the
> > > engine (dual pulley flywheels are available) an electrically operated
> > > evaporator door with a switch on the throttle quadrant which would cut
> off
> > > the compressor and retract the evaporator door for take-off (should I
> forget
> > > to do it). If there are any installations installed I would be
> interested on
> > > what parts were used and effectiveness.
> > >
> > > n.b Only needed below 8000'
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > David Roseblade
> > >
> > > RV6A - Finish kit - working canopy in air conditioned comfort.
> > > Dubai, UAE
>
I used a Vintage Air after market unit in my 1967 Camaro they now make some
really small units that might be adapted to aircraft use.
http://www.vintageair.com/vintage.htm
This link takes you to their home page then check out the *universal evaporator*
button.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
The first question is always what brand of mags are they. There are several
ADs on Bendix mags and their impulses. There are limits to the play in the
weight pins. You might find a mechanic that will have the tools, manuals,
and most importantly the expertise to check and o'haul if necessary.
But there are other things that make starting difficult. Plugs and plug
gaps come to mind. Have you cleaned and gaps your plugs? This is
frequently the problem when it comes to hard starting.
Have you done a compression check? You might have an exhaust valve hanging.
I would check the compression and clean the plugs before I got excited about
the mags.
Then I would check the static timing of the mags before their removal.
If the above didn't fix the starting problem, I would replace the points and
condensor and re-time the mags internally, re-install, and time the mags to
the engine.
If that simple replacement didn't work, I would buy either re-built Bendix
or if Slick's, factory new which would be the cheaper route.
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kitz" <JKITZ1(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Impulse mag
>
> Listers;
> I suspect the pins in the impulse mag have become worn since it is
> taking some cranking to start it all of a sudden. When the Sears Die
> Hard garden tractor battery starts to give out, the engine starts. I
> think that is an indication of the pins being worn.
> Are mags very difficult to repair? Where are parts available? If I do
> not do it, who repairs them and what does it cost?
> The mags were new about 450 hours ago.
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
John:
You have wandered into an area where the answer really is:
It all depends.
The pricing policy of Slick (Unison) is such that it does not take many
needed parts to make the price of a new mag the way to go. They do this
intentionally to get the old junkers out of the market and newer ones in your
airplane.
If you are quite certain that the problem is in the mag, the best way to go
about tearing into it is to get a copy of the overhaul manual. I think it
costs about 40 dollars and has step by step procedures for disassembling,
inspecting and reassembling the mag. However, some of this requires either
special tools or some ingenuity to get around them.
Don't know what you mean by "pins," unless it is the stop pin in the frame
that catches the impulse coupling pawls as the engine begins to rotate. If
this has failed you will not hear the distinct clanking sound that the mag
makes. But you could also have bad points, condenser or coil, all of which
would cause operational problems.
Frankly, I think your best bet is to get someone who knows the mag to look at
the problem and give you some feedback. You can get parts and mags from
Chief, Aircraft Spruce, etc. IF the problem is in the mag (have you looked
at spark plug gaps?), only some testing will determine if it is more cost
effective to fix it or replace it.
Bill Marvel
John Kitz wrote:
>
> Listers;
> I suspect the pins in the impulse mag have become worn since it is
> taking some cranking to start it all of a sudden. When the Sears Die
> Hard garden tractor battery starts to give out, the engine starts. I
> think that is an indication of the pins being worn.
> Are mags very difficult to repair? Where are parts available? If I do
> not do it, who repairs them and what does it cost?
> The mags were new about 450 hours ago.
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> Ohio
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
John, If you can hear the click of the impulse when you trun the prop, it
isn't the impulses. They have two functions. One to retard the spark. Two,
to increase the rotational speed of the mag to provide a hotter spark when
starting. So if you here the click of the impulse, both those things are
happening.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Kitz" <JKITZ1(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Impulse mag
>
> Listers;
> I suspect the pins in the impulse mag have become worn since it is
> taking some cranking to start it all of a sudden. When the Sears Die
> Hard garden tractor battery starts to give out, the engine starts. I
> think that is an indication of the pins being worn.
> Are mags very difficult to repair? Where are parts available? If I do
> not do it, who repairs them and what does it cost?
> The mags were new about 450 hours ago.
> John Kitz
> N721JK
> Ohio
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
Ok, I sealed up the baffle on the left tank. Everything seemed to go
real well until I placed the tank on the spar.
The tank has a increasing gap from zero at the inboard end to about a
1/16" gap at the outboard end.It's enough that the holes to the splice
piece don't line up and the screws into the platenuts on the spar don't
want to go in after about half way up the tank from the inboard end.
They go in easy at the inboard side.
I didn't fully coat the tank baffle brackets per the instructions so am
surpised if it is too much proseal. I suppose there could be too much
between the ribs and the skin although the rivets went in real nice
there. All the rivets to the tank from the baffle went in nice.
Now what. Is there some fix to this or do I either live with the gap or
start all over.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aerospace Logic Guages |
I talked to them at length about their products.
They seem quite knowledgeable and helpful.
They offer an additional discount when you purchase
more than one instrument.
I told them I was not interested in the cht if it came with
the ring type probes abd they offered the bayonet type
for $18 more total!
I have not received them yet but should in a few days.
Stewart, RV4 flying...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 3 questions (fuel selector and nut types) |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> 2) I'm not an A&P, so go easy on me...when would you use an AN365-1032 nut
> as opposed to an AN365-1032A nut? The "A" version has a yellow insert and
> is slightly thicker, while the "B" version has a green insert (as far as
> I've seen).
>
> 3) I can't tell a bit of difference between an AN365-428 and AN365-428A.
> Same color insert, same dimensions, same threads. Is there any difference?
>
I just looked these nuts up in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. As far as the thin
nuts, they are should be AN364 = (thin) stop nuts for use in structural
applications were the bolt is loaded primarily in shear or in any application
where the tensile strength of a regular height AN365 is not required. The
different color plastic insert is just a different supplier.
AN364 and AN365 stop nuts that end in an "A" are CAD Plateded, those that have
no A at the end are commercial grade stainless.
AN365-428 should be stainless, AN365-428A should be CAD plated.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/8/02 9:14:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com writes:
<< Ok, I sealed up the baffle on the left tank. Everything seemed to go
real well until I placed the tank on the spar.
The tank has a increasing gap from zero at the inboard end to about a
1/16" gap at the outboard end.It's enough that the holes to the splice
piece don't line up and the screws into the platenuts on the spar don't
want to go in after about half way up the tank from the inboard end.
They go in easy at the inboard side.
I didn't fully coat the tank baffle brackets per the instructions so am
surpised if it is too much proseal. I suppose there could be too much
between the ribs and the skin although the rivets went in real nice
there. All the rivets to the tank from the baffle went in nice.
Now what. Is there some fix to this or do I either live with the gap or
start all over.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings
1968 Mustang 302 convertible
Piper Cherokee N5320W >>
First, take the tank off and look at it carefully. Look at the spar
attachment area too. Make darned sure there is nothing obvious that is
preventing the tank from sliding into place. If that doesn't work, hammer
maintenance probably will:
Take a wood block. Place it against the leading edge of your wing. Make
sure it bridges two or more ribs. Take a hammer - ball peen, claw, sledge,
or whatever, and tap the wood block to encourage the tank into place. Be
sure to only tap in locations that line up with ribs. A little force will go
a long way...
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Stall speed - pitot tube orientaton |
Hi Dave-
I got my pitot and mast from Aircraft Spruce. If I recall correctly, the
pitot was slightly cheaper at Wicks, but they didn't carry the mast. In
the latest Sruce catalog, they're on pg 337, top right. I used the
#AN5812-12 pitot-only tube and Van's static kit, along with the Gretz mast
# 10-01950.
The pitot tube is made by Aero Instrument Co., Inc., 14901 Emery Ave.,
Cleveland, Oh 44135. Mfg's part number P. H. 502-12 CR. I have no idea
if they sell direct or what they would charge.
The mounting mast seems to me to be pretty well thought out and executed.
Gretz Aero: Warren Gretz, 3664 E Lake Dr., Littleton, CO 80212.
303-770-3811, info(at)gretzaero.com, www.gretzaero.com.
I mounted my pitot (on my rv-8QB) just outboard of the rib that is just
outboard of the most outboard inspection cover, just aft of the spar. That
puts it about a foot outboard and a couple inches aft of the stock vans
location. by placing it there, the pitot and mount are accessible for mx,
but still pick up the spar and a rib for strength and rigidity. That
position puts the pitot in the section of skin I had to install,
simplifying the whole process. I ran my pitot pressure line between the
axis of the ail bellcrank and the spar web. It took a little tinkering and
fiddling before I convinced myself I was gonna drill in the right spot, but
I really like the way it turned out. At the moment, the bracket is in the
stored wing, and the mast and tube are in a drawer (somewhere, I think....)
so I can't do any damage with or to the mast sicking out of the bottom
skin. Pretty slick, I think. Wish I'd a thought of it...
Glen
RV-8QB, patiently awaiting mating with it's wings...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HalBenjamin(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 9/8/02 9:14:45 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com writes:
> Ok, I sealed up the baffle on the left tank. Everything seemed to go
> real well until I placed the tank on the spar.
> The tank has a increasing gap from zero at the inboard end to about a
> 1/16" gap at the outboard end.It's enough that the holes to the splice
> piece don't line up and the screws into the platenuts on the spar don't
> want to go in after about half way up the tank from the inboard end.
> They go in easy at the inboard side
Hi Curt,
The same thing happened to me on my RV-4. It turned out to be just a little
proseal that had squeezed out from under the baffle. I trimmed it off &
everything fit fine.
Hal Benjamin
RV-4, Fuselage
Long Island, NY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net> |
Curt Hoffman wrote:
>
> Ok, I sealed up the baffle on the left tank. Everything seemed to go
> real well until I placed the tank on the spar.
> The tank has a increasing gap from zero at the inboard end to about a
> 1/16" gap at the outboard end.It's enough that the holes to the splice
> piece don't line up and the screws into the platenuts on the spar don't
> want to go in after about half way up the tank from the inboard end.
> They go in easy at the inboard side.
> I didn't fully coat the tank baffle brackets per the instructions so am
> surpised if it is too much proseal. I suppose there could be too much
> between the ribs and the skin although the rivets went in real nice
> there. All the rivets to the tank from the baffle went in nice.
> Now what. Is there some fix to this or do I either live with the gap or
> start all over.
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings
> 1968 Mustang 302 convertible
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
>
When I installed my tank I started putting the screws in at the top of the
splice plate and then from the outboard end then worked toward the inboard
end the holes on the inboard end did not look like they were going to align,
but with each screw they pulled in closer and closer untill it finally went
on. Maybe that might work for you.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Working on the wings :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Strength of riveted joints |
Bill Marvel posted a very interesting message to the RV-List a few
days about the strength of riveted joints. The message summarized
the actual pull tests between aluminum coupons with different types
of rivets, and with various rivet conditions (over-driven, correctly
driven, under-driven).
With Bill's permission, I have put his original message on my web
site, so it is permanently available.
See: http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/marvelrivets.html
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Not much in the archives about the Pointer brand ELT. Anybody using
one? Feedback?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (was: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT) |
----- Original Message -----
From: "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flutter (was: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT)
>
> when I first started a conversation with this man after he started ripping
> the -8, I was going to "straighten" him out as far as the -8 story, I was
in
> fact at a sailplane convention. The more he spoke the more I realized
this
> guy wasn't just spouting off, but was a professional flutter expert,
Include me among those who are skeptical about Martin Hollman. Having
talked with the man, sat with him while he "held court with those who came
by to pay obiesance to him and looked at the Stallion, I concluded he was
consummately skilled at tooting his own horn. He jumped, nay leaped to the
conclusion that the RV-8 wing failure was flutter induced without a
scintilla of evidence to support the idea. As has been said, he offered to
do flutter analysis for free but when someone suggested he actually do it,
it was suddenly to cost money. But the crowning event, for me, was the
affair referred to already about Cringley or whingley or whoever was going
to build and fly an airplane in 30 days. That he had no hope in hell of
succeeding made the exercise amusing. But the insult was when, after
spending 3 weeks, or whatever, to bring the fuselage to the point where it
looked a little like a boat, the word came down that the designer had made a
mistake and the wing location was so badly misplaced that it would be
necessary to start over. The designer of course was Martin Hollman (and you
can bet he did not do it for free). I doubt if the producers got their
money back.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Roll Bar - plan discrepancies |
>
>Folks,
>
>I'm in the process of installing my roll bar...RV6A slider QB #60431.
Mainly, make sure it is square with the fuselage.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (was: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT) |
Well, okay, you've burst my bubble! I guess I am easily impressed. So
Martin Hollman is a fraud. Sniff...
I'm going out into the garden now to eat worms and its all your fault.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "baremetl" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: John Kitz <JKITZ1(at)columbus.rr.com>
Date: Sunday, September 08, 2002 6:02 PM
Subject: RV-List: Impulse mag
>
>Listers;
>I suspect the pins in the impulse mag have become worn since it is
>taking some cranking to start it all of a sudden. When the Sears Die
>Hard garden tractor battery starts to give out, the engine starts. I
>think that is an indication of the pins being worn.
>Are mags very difficult to repair? Where are parts available? If I do
>not do it, who repairs them and what does it cost?
>The mags were new about 450 hours ago.
>John Kitz
>N721JK
>Ohio
>
>
>John,
My experience with Slick mags has been 3 failed coils in 825 hrs. They are
fairly easy to change if you have a way to remove the wedges that secure
them (I use a modified slide hammer ). Aircraft Spruce carries them for
about $140??? If the secondary winding has infinite resistance then its a
sure bet the coil is the culprit. Unfortunately, the coil can pass a
resistance test (about 17K ohms) and still fail to produce a satisfactory
spark since this test puts no load on it. You do need to know how to time
the mag both internally and to the engine to do this work. If you are
unfamiliar with this then try finding soneone to help. Its not especially
difficult.
Ivan Haecker RV-4 825hrs
==================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pointer ELT? |
In a message dated 9/8/2002 8:06:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
Larry(at)bowenaero.com writes:
> Not much in the archives about the Pointer brand ELT. Anybody using
> one? Feedback?
I had one in my old Kitfox and it worked fine. Replacement batteries were a
little pricey though.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | my next RV will have folding wings!!!!! |
we snuck into the Reno air race preparations today, well actually flew in
with tower permission (OK, so maybe Lyle doesn't know us personally, but...)
This made flying into OSH child's play. On final, six T-4's on knife edge
passed directly in front of me at perhaps 50 above the ground and what, 220
mph? forcing me to do a 360 while, to my amazement, the tower said nothing!
(well, they did warn us to watch for traffic)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
Hi Ralph...
I'm just finishing up my canopy, thank God, on my RV6a QB # 60534 so am very
familiar with the parts you mention. I just went out to look at mine and
refresh my memory on the piece you're concerned with. My measurments are the
same as yours in that the rear of the roll bar is 33.25" aft of the firewall
and the base plate is 5.25". At the time I installed this I had minimal room
to place the forward bolt and remember a couple other builders complained of
this also. Don't know why Van's skimped on the length of the baseplate, but
no matter. In my opinion, the fore/aft placement of the rollbar is not that
critical. What is critical is to give yourself enough room to insert the
forward bolt. Possibly your F604 might be off by .25" and that would be
enough to cause your problem, hard to say. I would carefully place the
rollbar making sure it is at 90 deg. to the canopy deck/longeron and has room
for the forward bolt and nut. If you have to move it forward by .25", should
not matter a whit. Just means the canopy will slide forward another .25",
that's all. Hope this helps and if you need further assistance with the
canopy, email me directly. jerry2dt(at)aol.com
Cheers,
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, Oregon
RVa/finish kit
In a message dated 9/8/02 11:57:33 PM, rv6-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
<< Folks,
I'm in the process of installing my roll bar...RV6A slider QB #60431.
Here's my problem:
Plans sheet SC-1B (as well as old preview plan SC-1) shows the aft edge
of the roll bar (not base plate) 33 1/4" aft of the forward face of the
firewall and 3 1/8" aft of the 604 bulkhead riser.
Plans sheet SC-4 (old - preview plans...the new ones don't show it at
all) also shows that the base plates for the roll bar weldments are 5
1/2" from front to back.
The base plates for my roll bar weldments are only 5 1/4" from front to
back. If I place the aft edge of the roll bar (again - not the base
plate) as far aft as called for, the forward bolt hole for the base
plate to canopy deck attachment falls around the forward 604 bulkhead
riser plate.
What is the correct dimension for placement of the roll bar? Do I have
an incorrectly assembled roll bar? Did I miss a plans change?
I have a digital photo in case anyone thinks they know but aren't
sure...
Please advise,
Ralph Capen
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <douggray(at)ihug.com.au> |
| Subject: | Re: [ David Fried ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
Congratulations David,
I have been waiting for you to get your tapered wing into the air. I am interested
in
flight reports especially stall, spin and performance characteristics.
I cannot recall, did you build any twist (ie washout) into this wing?
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
| Subject: | Infinity Stick Grips |
Listers-
Food for thought- Murphy's law dictates that if I were to put my starter
button on my stick grip, there WOULD come a time while folding a chart,
eating a sandwich, or whatever that I accidentally engage it....
Glen
Soon to be re-employed and furiously filling out order forms....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Jory" <rickjory(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
Figure out your longest wiring run, add two feet, and order that much wire.
I didn't do this and ended up having to find comparable wire (number of
pairs) and do the mother-of-all splice bundles . . . and all of this was a
pain.
Rick Jory RV8A
----- Original Message -----
From: Ken Brooks <kdbrv8r(at)charter.net>
Subject: RV-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>
> I would appreciate some info from other Infinity Stick Grip users. What
> length of wire was required for front and rear grips in the RV-8 (for
> ordering purposes). They come with 3 feet, and it's $2.00 per foot over
> that. Measuring from the rear seat stick, I came up with 11 feet, worst
> case scenario. Stick button/switch functions will be the same for pilot
> and rear seater. Thanks in advance.
>
> Ken Brooks
> Roscoe, IL
> N1903P resvd - starting panel and stick wiring
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flutter (was: flying the wing - GO OUT AND TRY IT) |
There are dozens of -8's of varying "aileron system tightness" and
configuration that have been flying thousands of hours with no reported
flutter symptoms. Mine alone has ~430 hrs and behavior no different than
publically discussed here and at other public forums (BIG knock on wood!).
I'm pretty conservative - rarely flown into the yellow - but there are those
I've witnessed flying the heck out of their -8's (fast and high load
factors). They're still holding together and (gratefully) keeping the
limits of the envelope well proven.
About the factory -8 accident. I recall hearing nothing about aileron
damage symptomatic of flutter. While other companies might try and conceal
a weakness of their product, I cannot believe Van would even consider it.
Flutter discussions can be like metallurgical discussions, in that they
*can* go from firm science to opinion and grayness pretty quickly. At work,
I've been in situations where the resident "metallurgical expert" spews out
things like "the failure was due to grain boundary fatigue corrosion
errosion due to chloride stress delmination and dilution, blah, blah,
blah..." Say what?!?! How do you tell the manager that their favorite
"metallurgist" sounds pretty smart, but is really full of hot air? Sounds
like what *may* be happening here.
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
| From: | "James Madill" <James.Madill(at)duke.edu> |
5.0.11 |July 24, 2002) at 09/09/2002 09:31:02 AM,
Serialize complete at 09/09/2002 09:31:02 AM
>
> Ken and others,
> Some switch functions have to be isolated so that only one handle
> works at a time. To accomplish this, I isolated the ground return
> through a single pole switch on the panel. This opens a bag of worms
> where you have press on/press off switches on the handle. There is no
> simple way to tell the state of a switch when changing the handle
> authority, therefore except for flaps (lever type switch), my second
> handle is not wired with those functions that have a push on/push off
> switch.
You can alleviate this problem by using momentary ON switches to toggle
the state of a latching relay.
-- James
o o o o o o o . . . _______________________ _______=======_T___
o _____ |James Madill | |Duke Univ Med Ctr|
>.][__n_n_| D[ ====|____ |james.madill(at)duke.edu| | (919) 286-6384 |
(________|__|_[____/____]_|_____________________|_|_________________|
_/oo O-O-O ` oo oo 'o
o
o o
o
o` 'o
o o
o`
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-
<http://www.duke.edu/~madil001/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)iajobs.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 fuel access hole ???? |
I'm utilizing the flop tube in my left tank (RV8). The plans don't cover
the hole in the baffle very well. Should it be just large enough for the
sender or similar to the access opening in the normal tank? I did order a
cover plate from Van's so maybe that means the larger size.
Thanks,
Jack Textor
RV8
DSM
Jack Textor
PERSONNEL INCORPORATED
PLACEMENTS / OUTPLACEMENTS
TESTING / TEMPORARY STAFFING
Serving Clients For More Than 39 Years
604 Locust, Suite 516
Des Moines, IA 50309
515-243-7687 phone
515-243-3350 fax
www.iaJobs.com
jack(at)iaJobs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Aronson <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> |
Contact Jeff :
jeff(at)jarlin.com
her has an RV8 that is in progress. He may be interested?.
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Malecha" <azflyer(at)theriver.com>
Subject: RV-List:
>
> Does anyone know of an RV8 QB project either started or not started for
> sale.
> AL Malecha
> www.azflyer(at)theriver.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming for sale |
Posted for Lance Newman
Lycoming 0320H2AD, 1100 SMOH at Mattituck airbase.
Running engine with logs, includes mechanical fuel pump (new).
Mag, wire harness and plugs, Marvel Carb, Stock Starter.
All accessories in running condition.
Engine has been in dry long term storage.
$5900 obo.
Lance Newman
Maple Valley, WA
425-413-1764
mailto:lance.newman(at)siemens.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
I ordered my front grip as standard and one additional foot of wire for my
rear stick. Both cables end near the right gear mount on an RV-8A. I made
up a harness for each stick with AMP plugs to connect to the corresponding
stick (made the front stick connector male and the rear female so they don't
get mixed up). All switches run to terminal strips to make changes easy. I
used a 3PDT switch for the rear stick disable switch. I do have a start
button on the front stick ONLY but there is a covered toggle switch on the
panel that is a start enable. This allows me to have my right hand on the
stick and left on the throttle during starting. After the engine is
running, the guarded switch is closed which disables the start button on the
stick.
Vince Welch
RV-8A
>From: glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: RV-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:05:08 -0400
>
>
>Listers-
>
>Food for thought- Murphy's law dictates that if I were to put my starter
>button on my stick grip, there WOULD come a time while folding a chart,
>eating a sandwich, or whatever that I accidentally engage it....
>
>Glen
>Soon to be re-employed and furiously filling out order forms....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pointer ELT? |
I have one in my RV-4. It did have to be modified by the factory to prevent
interference in my comm radio when flying near a local antenna farm with
strong AM/FM transmitters. Since then it has been fine.
Doug Weiler
N464 EM
Hudson, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: <Vanremog(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pointer ELT?
>
> In a message dated 9/8/2002 8:06:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> Larry(at)bowenaero.com writes:
>
>
> > Not much in the archives about the Pointer brand ELT. Anybody using
> > one? Feedback?
>
> I had one in my old Kitfox and it worked fine. Replacement batteries were
a
> little pricey though.
>
> -GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
That's why you have an "enable starter" toggle switch on the panel or console
-- Without it on, the button on the stick is not hot.
-Larry
--- glen j matejcek wrote:
>
> Listers-
>
> Food for thought- Murphy's law dictates that if I were to put my starter
> button on my stick grip, there WOULD come a time while folding a chart,
> eating a sandwich, or whatever that I accidentally engage it....
>
> Glen
> Soon to be re-employed and furiously filling out order forms....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
http://finance.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
My plan for getting around this is to have two switches, one on the
Infinity grip and one on my Throttle, and require that *both* be pushed
to engage the starter. Murphy's law may still say that I could
concievably push both at the same time by accident, but i'm willing to
take that chance... It seems pretty remote.
The Throttle I have is an ex-F-105 throttle, that has an "ignition"
button (for in-air-restart, presumably). It also has a "speed brakes"
control (extend-hold-retract), which should work quite nicely as a
control for the electric flaps.
-RB4
rv7 "at" b4.ca
RV-7 Empennage
glen j matejcek wrote:
>
> Listers-
>
> Food for thought- Murphy's law dictates that if I were to put my starter
> button on my stick grip, there WOULD come a time while folding a chart,
> eating a sandwich, or whatever that I accidentally engage it....
>
> Glen
> Soon to be re-employed and furiously filling out order forms....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EIS 4000 manual - online ? |
Try calling Greg or Sandy at 616-583-8000 and ask them to send you, either by
e-mail or snail mail, a copy of user's the manual.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
Glen,
We have 120 hrs on our 8A and have not accidentally engaged the start
button. It is far enough out of the way - it's a non issue. If you have a
fuel injected engine - I'd highly recommend it on the grip - to the right of
the collie hat.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
Rv-8A
>From: glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "INTERNET:rv-list(at)matronics.com"
>Subject: RV-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 09:05:08 -0400
>
>
>Listers-
>
>Food for thought- Murphy's law dictates that if I were to put my starter
>button on my stick grip, there WOULD come a time while folding a chart,
>eating a sandwich, or whatever that I accidentally engage it....
>
>Glen
>Soon to be re-employed and furiously filling out order forms....
>
>
http://www.hotmail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bert Forero" <bert6(at)mybluelight.com> |
Hi:
I have the Flight comm Intercom, 403mc. model; I am
ready to wire this thing, and see that the mic.& hdp
jacks have three tabs, for wire connection each.
The mic. jack does not show grd. connection, for pilot or
copilot, unit is grounded i pressume? On the hdph jack
is ground the center pin.?
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.
Bert
rv6a
working on the pannel
Sign up for Internet Service under $10 dollars a month, at http://isp.BlueLight.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | XP-360 Engine and Vans Cowling |
Does anyone know what cowling choice through Vans goes with the XP-360
engine by Superior? What about XP-360 fuel injection?
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EIS 4000 manual - online ? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Amit,
I don't have a copy of their manual electronically, and don't think
there's one on the Grand Rapids Technologies website. I'd call Greg Toman
(his phone number is on the website) and I'll be he would send you
something either electronically or by snailmail.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
------------------------------------------------------
writes:
> Is there a user's manual or operating manual in a file for the EIS
> 4000 ? I
> couldn't see one on their webpage.
> Thanks,
> Amit.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "davefried" <davefried(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing) |
Sorry for the delay. I wanted to wait until the photos came up on Matt's
website.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/davefried@rogers.com.09.08.2002/index.html
After about 6 years of building effort, my aircraft, 21145 was finally
ready
to fly. Life has a funny way of intruding on what I do for fun, that 6
year
period was spread out over 11+ years. The delay happily forgotten the
moment there was air under the tires.
Caveats
**********
I have not calibrated the pitot/static system so the airspeeds quoted
may be in error.
I am a low time pilot with no tailwheel time and haven't flown in ten
years.
I do not have calibrated fingertips or feet.
First flight
************
Saturday, August 31 2002, 1.2 hours with test pilot Dick Van Vliet at
the controls.
Dick is a former bush pilot with nearly 14000 hours in single engine
aircraft. He has tested a number of homebuilt built aircraft including
RVs and currently flies an Auster. Dick is also a flight instructor and
will provide transition training.
Snags:
Intermittent turn coordinator
Low vacuum suction
Prop slinging grease from blade roots
Second flight
****************
Monday, Sept 2, Dick and myself, 1.2 hours.
Snags:
Intermittent turn coordinator now working!?
Vacuum suction still low (adjusted wrong way)
MAP line disconnected at firewall (missed tightening that one)
Prop slinging grease from blade roots
Third flight
*************
Friday, Sept 6, Dick and myself, 1.4 hours.
Snags:
Vacuum suction still low (needs more adjustment)
Tailwheel lock jammed on landing
Tailwheel lock cable failed trying to free latch
Prop slinging grease from blade roots (I hear that this takes
about 10 hours to stop).
Comments
*************
It flies hands off with rudder as required depending on power setting.
The flaps up stall happens at 50 kt and is gentle with a minor left wing
drop. Flaps down stall happens at 39 kt indicated with a more
significant left wing drop. A bit of power is required to fly at 60 kt
indicated and the plane seems to be quite comfortable there. Max
speed flown was 160 kt indicated at 24 square.
The view out the tip up canopy and over the nose in flight is unreal. On
the ground, it is a bit of a challenge to see out. That is improving
somewhat as I learn how to adjust the seat and seat cushions.
Control forces
******************
The stick controls are light and responsive throughout the speed range.
No more than finger tip pressure was required.
Range of motion at low speed was about 3 inches from centre at
low speed and about half that at higher speeds.
The elevator gets rather light (1 finger instead of 2) just prior to
stall.
The spring bias aileron trim is powerful. I adjusted it about 1/4 inch
right to level the wings. On the ground it looks centred. I don't know
where I started from.
Elevator trim is also quite powerful. I don't think I moved it more
than a half turn to trim any where above 80 kt indicated. In slow
flight, considerably more trim is required (no fingers).
The rudder was heavier than I expected. My big feet touch the
pedals closer to the torque tube than most, perhaps this reduces
mechanical advantage. There is a 1/2 inch floor board over the
stiffeners and that doesn't help. I'm not sure yet, but I think that
I would like to have a cabin adjustable rudder trim (any ideas?).
Landing/Taxi
****************
The first few landings included skips and bounces but at no time
did the plane seem uncontrollable. I had visions of groundloops
but it doesn't appear to be unstable on the ground. My tailwheel is
either locked or free castering (no chains). When free, it steers
on the ground with feet on the rudder pedals. The brakes are
doing the work with just foot pressure. The test pilot prefers to
leave the tailwheel free and we will go that route for a while. At
least until I can repair the latch cable and figure out why the
latch jammed.
I am going to be working on my flying skills for a while before
I get into performance testing. The latter should probably wait
until I get the gear fairings on.
I will gave a go at airspeed system errors using my GPS. The
homemade pitot tube that I put on the wing has a leak between
the total and static chamber. I am planning to change that for
a Piper blade-type pitot/static. Does anybody have any
experience with calibrating one of those on an RV?
What a nice little airplane. My thanks to Van for a fine design.
Further testing will reveal if my wing mod has added a small
increment to that.
More to come...
David Fried
C-GZDF DF-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ski2001a(at)aol.com |
List,
I am about to label up my RV-8 panel and cockpit and was looking for some
recommendations on the best approach. My panel is "Van's gray" and am looking
to use black lettering. I would like to do this right the first time and make
it look professional.
Give me some help here,
Tom C.
RV-8 Fastback
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: [Info] New brandname for TAE Jet Fuel Engines |
| From: | Martin Sobel <rv8vator(at)earthlink.net> |
----------
From: "Thielert Aircraft Engines" <info@tae-engines.com>
Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 15:59:54 +0200
Subject: [Info] New brandname for TAE Jet Fuel Engines
=====================================================================
T A E - I N F O M A I L N o. 0 6 / 2 0 0 2
from 9 September 2002
Best legibility Courier New font face
=====================================================================
Dear Sir or Madam,
shortly before receiving the supplement type certification for
installing our certified jet fuel aircraft engine in Piper PA 28 and
Cessna 172, we would like to inform you about some key, market-related
news at this point:
I. CENTURION Engines - jet fuel aircraft engines from TAE
New website: http://www.centurion-engines.com
We hope to provide you with interesting information and are pleased
about your interest.
Yours faithfully
Thielert Aircraft Engines GmbH
I. CENTURION ENGINES - JET FUEL AIRCRAFT ENGINES FROM TAE
The certified jet fuel aircraft engine from Thielert Aircraft Engines
GmbH is currently known under the name "TAE 125". This term for the
device type referred to the overall development and certification
process.
With the market entry, which is now complete, TAE products from the
jet fuel engine range are being given a new, catchy trade name:
TAE 125 is now called "C E N T U R I O N 1.7"
Hence, our high-performance engine with 228kW (310 HP), for which
we are expecting the fully-functioning prototype by the end of the
year, also has a new name:
TAE 310 is now called "C E N T U R I O N 4.0"
To start with, the Centurion 1.7 99kW (135 HP) engine is available
for Cessna 172 and Piper PA 28 in the retrofit from the Centurion
product family. The Centurion 1.7 is already being used in new
aeroplanes, for example in the DA40 from Diamond Aircraft Industries
GmbH.
Please visit us on our new additional website for further information
about the CENTURION jet fuel aircraft engines from TAE:
< http://www.centurion-engines.com >
"CENTURION" is a protected TAE trademark, which is registered in
word and image. TAE is the producer of Centurion diesel aeroplane
engines and system partner of the aviation and automotive industry.
_____ THIELERT AIRCRAFT ENGINES GMBH__________________________________
Platanenstrasse 14
09350 Lichtenstein
Germany
Tel: +49 37204 6960
Fax: +49 37204 69650
mailto:info@tae-engines.com
http://www.tae-engines.com
_____ CENTURION - JET A-ENGINES FOR GA BUILT BY TAE___________________
http://www.centurion-engines.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing) |
The web site is really:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/davefried@rogers.com.09.08.2002/index.ht
ml
Bob Hassel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of davefried
Subject: RV-List: C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing)
Sorry for the delay. I wanted to wait until the photos came up on Matt's
website.
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/davefried@rogers.com.09.08.2002/index.html
After about 6 years of building effort, my aircraft, 21145 was finally
ready
to fly. Life has a funny way of intruding on what I do for fun, that 6
year
period was spread out over 11+ years. The delay happily forgotten the
moment there was air under the tires.
Caveats
**********
I have not calibrated the pitot/static system so the airspeeds quoted
may be in error.
I am a low time pilot with no tailwheel time and haven't flown in ten
years.
I do not have calibrated fingertips or feet.
First flight
************
Saturday, August 31 2002, 1.2 hours with test pilot Dick Van Vliet at
the controls.
Dick is a former bush pilot with nearly 14000 hours in single engine
aircraft. He has tested a number of homebuilt built aircraft including
RVs and currently flies an Auster. Dick is also a flight instructor and
will provide transition training.
Snags:
Intermittent turn coordinator
Low vacuum suction
Prop slinging grease from blade roots
Second flight
****************
Monday, Sept 2, Dick and myself, 1.2 hours.
Snags:
Intermittent turn coordinator now working!?
Vacuum suction still low (adjusted wrong way)
MAP line disconnected at firewall (missed tightening that one)
Prop slinging grease from blade roots
Third flight
*************
Friday, Sept 6, Dick and myself, 1.4 hours.
Snags:
Vacuum suction still low (needs more adjustment)
Tailwheel lock jammed on landing
Tailwheel lock cable failed trying to free latch
Prop slinging grease from blade roots (I hear that this takes
about 10 hours to stop).
Comments
*************
It flies hands off with rudder as required depending on power setting.
The flaps up stall happens at 50 kt and is gentle with a minor left wing
drop. Flaps down stall happens at 39 kt indicated with a more
significant left wing drop. A bit of power is required to fly at 60 kt
indicated and the plane seems to be quite comfortable there. Max
speed flown was 160 kt indicated at 24 square.
The view out the tip up canopy and over the nose in flight is unreal. On
the ground, it is a bit of a challenge to see out. That is improving
somewhat as I learn how to adjust the seat and seat cushions.
Control forces
******************
The stick controls are light and responsive throughout the speed range.
No more than finger tip pressure was required.
Range of motion at low speed was about 3 inches from centre at
low speed and about half that at higher speeds.
The elevator gets rather light (1 finger instead of 2) just prior to
stall.
The spring bias aileron trim is powerful. I adjusted it about 1/4 inch
right to level the wings. On the ground it looks centred. I don't know
where I started from.
Elevator trim is also quite powerful. I don't think I moved it more
than a half turn to trim any where above 80 kt indicated. In slow
flight, considerably more trim is required (no fingers).
The rudder was heavier than I expected. My big feet touch the
pedals closer to the torque tube than most, perhaps this reduces
mechanical advantage. There is a 1/2 inch floor board over the
stiffeners and that doesn't help. I'm not sure yet, but I think that
I would like to have a cabin adjustable rudder trim (any ideas?).
Landing/Taxi
****************
The first few landings included skips and bounces but at no time
did the plane seem uncontrollable. I had visions of groundloops
but it doesn't appear to be unstable on the ground. My tailwheel is
either locked or free castering (no chains). When free, it steers
on the ground with feet on the rudder pedals. The brakes are
doing the work with just foot pressure. The test pilot prefers to
leave the tailwheel free and we will go that route for a while. At
least until I can repair the latch cable and figure out why the
latch jammed.
I am going to be working on my flying skills for a while before
I get into performance testing. The latter should probably wait
until I get the gear fairings on.
I will gave a go at airspeed system errors using my GPS. The
homemade pitot tube that I put on the wing has a leak between
the total and static chamber. I am planning to change that for
a Piper blade-type pitot/static. Does anybody have any
experience with calibrating one of those on an RV?
What a nice little airplane. My thanks to Van for a fine design.
Further testing will reveal if my wing mod has added a small
increment to that.
More to come...
David Fried
C-GZDF DF-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Labels |
In a message dated 9/9/02 5:19:32 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Ski2001a(at)aol.com
writes:
<< List,
I am about to label up my RV-8 panel and cockpit and was looking for some
recommendations on the best approach. My panel is "Van's gray" and am
looking
to use black lettering. I would like to do this right the first time and
make
it look professional.
Give me some help here,
Tom C.
RV-8 Fastback >>
I took my panel to a vinyl sign shop and they made and attached all the
labels for $50. The lettering is crisp, applied straight, and has stuck well
for two years. I'd go that way again.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Gauthier <tgauthier(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XP-360 Engine and Vans Cowling |
I have an XP 0360 and I am installing Van's O-360, no problems.
Ted Gauthier
Pontiac, Mi.
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: RV-List: XP-360 Engine and Vans Cowling
>
> Does anyone know what cowling choice through Vans goes with the XP-360
> engine by Superior? What about XP-360 fuel injection?
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strength of riveted joints |
This was an excellent report in my opinion. I will however like to add that
most
structural problems with riveted joints are due to lop sided, bent over,
cracked, dented, etc
rivets rather than over or under driven rivets. It is nice to see numbers
showing that if you happen
to overdrive a rivet but its otherwise ok, then its probably better to leave
it and not drill it
out. If however, the rivet gun slips and makes a dimple or if the rivet sets
to one side, the
structural integrity will not be as high.
Damaged rivets is one thing that is hard to duplicate in the lab since every
imperfect
rivet is slightly different.
Good job Bill on getting numbers like this for new (and not so new) builders
to see and
reflect on.
Oh yeah, and prime those lap joints well. They are the number 1 place for
corrosion to find a home.
Steve Hurlbut
RV7A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: RV-List: Strength of riveted joints
>
> Bill Marvel posted a very interesting message to the RV-List a few
> days about the strength of riveted joints. The message summarized
> the actual pull tests between aluminum coupons with different types
> of rivets, and with various rivet conditions (over-driven, correctly
> driven, under-driven).
>
> With Bill's permission, I have put his original message on my web
> site, so it is permanently available.
>
> See: http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/marvelrivets.html
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 fuel access hole ???? |
Jack,
The easy way to do this:
- Buy a "blank" end rib cover to replace the cover made to hold the fuel
sender. Van's sells these for just this purpose.
- Use the end rib cover that is now replace as a template to make the hole
in the baffle plate (the hole in the baffle plate is the exact size of the
sender hole in the end plate). Be VERY CAREFUL to align the holes as you
need for the fuel sender orientation. These holes ARE NOT symmetrical.
- After the hole is made, trim the end rib plate to into a donut shape, this
is now used as a backing plate to strengthen the baffle mounted fuel sender.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A (flying)
Vienna, VA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jack Textor
Subject: RV-List: RV8 fuel access hole ????
I'm utilizing the flop tube in my left tank (RV8). The plans don't cover
the hole in the baffle very well. Should it be just large enough for the
sender or similar to the access opening in the normal tank? I did order a
cover plate from Van's so maybe that means the larger size.
Thanks,
Jack Textor
RV8
DSM
Jack Textor
PERSONNEL INCORPORATED
PLACEMENTS / OUTPLACEMENTS
TESTING / TEMPORARY STAFFING
Serving Clients For More Than 39 Years
604 Locust, Suite 516
Des Moines, IA 50309
515-243-7687 phone
515-243-3350 fax
www.iaJobs.com
jack(at)iaJobs.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: vertical stabilizer offset |
I forget how much offset I did on my 6A but it was not enough. A
healthy offset will lessen the need for a wedge on the rudder to keep
the ball centered at cruise.
Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas
Mark Phillips wrote:
>
>
> Hi Dave-
>
> Yeah, I noticed it in the plans revisions on page 19 of the second 2002
> RVator- I don't see a dimension for the offset, it looks like it's set by the
> F-781 attach plate (pre-punched of course?!) but looks like about 1/8" or
> 3/16" to the left... ...oh yeah, and I saw this about a month after I
> drilled the V.S. spar for my -6A!!
>
> >From the PossumWorks
> Mark
>
> Dave Ford wrote:
>
> >
> > A builder of an RV7 I met recently told me his preview plans showed an
> > offset for the vertical stabilizer when mounted to the fuselage. Can
> > anyone verify this and what the offset measurement is?
> >
> > Dave Ford
> > RV6
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
"RV List"
| Subject: | New Class for Copperstate Race in Oct. |
Below is an email I just recieved from Jim Irwin of Aircraft Spruce.
Below that is the news release for the race.
Anyway, if enough people will enter, he will start a new 180+ HP or
unlimited class for the race.
Time to show off those bigger engines.
John Harmon, you were going to Copperstate anyway, why don't you set the
pace?
As long as there are no more than two other unlimited racers,
I might be able to get a third place plaque. :-)
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
EAA Chapter 768 Pres
Owner of the Slowest and Ugliest Harmon Rocket - N561FS
but It is mine,
It is paid for,
and It flys great. (Thanks Van and John)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Irwin" <jji(at)aircraftspruce.com>
Subject: Re: Velocity Crash
> Tom,
>
> Thanks for the nice email on Friday regarding the Golden West Air Race and
> the update on the Velocity Crash. I'm glad that the guys got out of the
> aircraft OK! We appreciate all of the help you gave us once again at
Apple
> Valley; we enjoy sponsoring these races and working with the good people
at
> EAA Chapter 768. We certainly can have an unlimited class for the
> Copperstate and if we get enough entrants above 180 hp we will add the
class
> for the race in October; put the word out!
>
> Thanks again for all your help, and we'll see you next month.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Jim Irwin
> President, Aircraft Spruce
>
AIRCRAFT SPRUCE SCHEDULES SEVENTH ANNUAL COPPERSTATE DASH AIR RACE
Corona, CA - Aircraft Spruce & Specialty will host the sixth annual
Copperstate Dash Air Race this October on Friday the 11th. Co-sponsored by
the EAA, the 286-nautical mile race is run between Apple Valley Airport
(APV) in Victorville, CA and Coolidge Airport (P08), south of Phoenix. Most
participants fly in the race and then visit the Copperstate Fly-In at the
new Phoenix Regional Grand Valley (A39) Airport which runs October 10 - 13.
The race is open to homebuilt and certificated aircraft, which race in
separate categories.
The four categories consist of Millennium, for aircraft with engines up to
180 horsepower; Phoenix for up to 160 horsepower; Flash Gordon for up to 120
horsepower and the Road Runners for those with 90 horsepower or less. Each
category will have separate divisions for Experimentals and factory built
aircraft. Pilots race against the clock and the three fastest times in each
group are the winners. Plaques and gift certificates totaling $4,000 are
presented to the winners each year during the Copperstate Fly-In Awards
Banquet.
Any pilot with current ratings and an appropriate airworthy aircraft can
enter. There is a $30 non-refundable entry fee, payable to Aircraft Spruce,
due with each entry form. All pilots must carry a $1 million liability
policy that covers their flying to, during, and after the race. Temporary
fuselage fuel tanks are not allowed and all pilots are required to obey the
FARs. The race requires VFR conditions enroute, which has never been a
problem in the past.
"The Copperstate Dash is an exciting air race," said Aircraft Spruce
President Jim Irwin. "People participate to have fun, and judging from the
quips we hear on the radio, they do have a good time. Some people take the
race very seriously, of course, but a lot of people simply run the course to
be able to say they spent a day as an air race pilot. Many of the
competitors come back year after year. It's a great way to get to a
fly-in."
Entry forms can be obtained by calling Jerry Aguilar at Aircraft Spruce &
Specialty: (800) 824-1930; fax (909) 372-0555; or write to Jerry at 225
Airport Circle, Corona, CA 91720. Forms must be submitted by October 7.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
Here's a couple for you guys using the Infinity stick and switches:
Are you running the starter lead direct or using a relay?
Are you running a Vans flap motor direct or using a relay?
Infinity claims a 6A rating on the push button switch but doesn't list a
rating on the toggle used for the flaps.
Thanks,
Russ
HRII
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
I went to the EAA Chapter 486 RV Fly-in at Fulton, NY (FZY) last
weekend. I spent quite a bit of time looking at cowlings, as I have
just started working on mine. I noted one thing that is worth
thinking about if you want to reduce drag.
I'm building an RV-8. Van specifies the height of the air inlets as
2 5/8 to 2 3/4 inches (IIRC). I didn't have a ruler with me, but it
was quite clear that many RVs have air inlets that are quite a bit
larger than called for on the RV-8 plans. These RVs also had quite a
large flat area extending above and/or below the spinner, which also
supports my theory that their cowl halves weren't trimmed as much at
the front as Van intended.
So what, you ask? Well, if the height of the cooling air inlets is
increased, the amount of air that goes into the cowling increases.
If we look at the aircraft as our frame of reference, all this air
has to slow down to pretty close to zero speed. Or, looking at the
earth as our frame of reference, all this air has to be accelerated
from a stop to the speed of the RV. This acceleration requires a
force to be exerted on the air by the aircraft, and this force is
felt by the aircraft as drag.
I did a very rough back of the envelope calculation, and if the air
inlet height on both sides is increased by 1/2 inch, that gives about
a 4% drag increase, and would cause a speed decrease of about 2 kt
for a 160 hp RV, and about 2.25 kt for a 200 hp RV. If the inlet
height is one inch too high, you can about double those numbers.
This calculation ignores the drag of the flat part of the cowl that
may be exposed above and below the spinner if the front part of the
cowl has more height than Van intended. So, the real effect could be
greater than this back of the envelope calculation would suggest.
Caveat - this calculation used quite a few simplifications. Total
drag of a nominal aircraft was calculated based on Van's 75% cruise
numbers, and an assumed 79% prop efficiency (obtained from a Hartzell
prop efficiency map). Drag increase calculation assumed that the air
entering the cowling was at free stream ambient conditions, and that
the air was slowed to 10% of its initial velocity (relative to the
aircraft).
So, if you want to get Van's performance numbers, be sure to pay
attention to the height of the air inlets on the cowl.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Kevin has a good point.
Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl: Set it up with the
top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher than the top of the cowl.
That's because, after 100 hours or so, the engine will sag slightly on the mounts.
If you set up initially with a the spinner matching the cowl
contour, you will later have an unsightly step down from cowl to spinner. 1/4"
worked just fine for me, but you could also add a little more, just in case.
Having the spinner slightly higher than the cowl looks okay,
but the converse is not true.
George Kilishek
RV-8 N888GK
80+ hours
----- Original Message -----
From: Kevin Horton
Subject: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets
--> RV8-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
I went to the EAA Chapter 486 RV Fly-in at Fulton, NY (FZY) last
weekend. I spent quite a bit of time looking at cowlings, as I have
just started working on mine. I noted one thing that is worth
thinking about if you want to reduce drag.
I'm building an RV-8. Van specifies the height of the air inlets as
2 5/8 to 2 3/4 inches (IIRC). I didn't have a ruler with me, but it
was quite clear that many RVs have air inlets that are quite a bit
larger than called for on the RV-8 plans. These RVs also had quite a
large flat area extending above and/or below the spinner, which also
supports my theory that their cowl halves weren't trimmed as much at
the front as Van intended.
So what, you ask? Well, if the height of the cooling air inlets is
increased, the amount of air that goes into the cowling increases.
If we look at the aircraft as our frame of reference, all this air
has to slow down to pretty close to zero speed. Or, looking at the
earth as our frame of reference, all this air has to be accelerated
from a stop to the speed of the RV. This acceleration requires a
force to be exerted on the air by the aircraft, and this force is
felt by the aircraft as drag.
I did a very rough back of the envelope calculation, and if the air
inlet height on both sides is increased by 1/2 inch, that gives about
a 4% drag increase, and would cause a speed decrease of about 2 kt
for a 160 hp RV, and about 2.25 kt for a 200 hp RV. If the inlet
height is one inch too high, you can about double those numbers.
This calculation ignores the drag of the flat part of the cowl that
may be exposed above and below the spinner if the front part of the
cowl has more height than Van intended. So, the real effect could be
greater than this back of the envelope calculation would suggest.
Caveat - this calculation used quite a few simplifications. Total
drag of a nominal aircraft was calculated based on Van's 75% cruise
numbers, and an assumed 79% prop efficiency (obtained from a Hartzell
prop efficiency map). Drag increase calculation assumed that the air
entering the cowling was at free stream ambient conditions, and that
the air was slowed to 10% of its initial velocity (relative to the
aircraft).
So, if you want to get Van's performance numbers, be sure to pay
attention to the height of the air inlets on the cowl.
Take care,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
Get mor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Cleaning Nosewheel Bearings |
I have a question concerning the use of Varsol for cleaning the nosewheel
bearings. Eustace has a really good post in the archives - but it pertains
to the main wheel bearings. Instead of a retainer clip, etc., the nose
wheel bearings have a type of neoprene encased seal. In cleaning the
bearing I soaked them in Varsol for many hours, then brushed them before
blowing them out with air. I am concerned that the Varsol my not be
compatible with these seals. Will the Varsol soaking make these seals dry
out, crack or fail to perform in some way. Am I paranoid about this. Is
the Varsol friendly for a long exposure??? It appears impossible to use the
Timken.com site by end customers. I rubbed the parts with a lithium white
grease until I get an answer. Thanks for any help.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 40% Complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Mounting Wings... |
More questions for the more experienced of ya'll......I exhausted the
archives tonight and didn't come up with much to answer my question.....
Im currently finishing up the wings on a QB 6A (wings are already drilled to
match the fuse mounts and landing gear mounts) and would like to do the final
mounting ( rear spar attach and foward support)...along with all the
associated fuel lines and wiring.....
I have the fuse on a jig (not on gear), level, and the wing spar in the fuse
with supports for the wing to keep the bolt holes aligned.....but only room
in the garage to do one wing at a time.....(envy guys with a large shop or
big hangar...=).....)
Once I have the wing bolted in with every other bolt or so...do I dare do the
alignment for sweep and angle of incidence and drill the rear spar per the
instructions without the other wing on at the same time?? Its seems you can
do the angle of incidence easy enough one at a time with the fuse
level....but I'm more concerned about the sweep....can I drop a plumb along
the certer of the fuse...and then along the LE of the wing to set the
sweep.....then when measuring to a point on the aft portion of the fuse,
just ensure both wings are the same when the second one is attached
(separately also).....???
I know doing this in a hangar with both wings at the same time is
optimum...just wondering if anyone has done it one at a time as I would like
to get as much done as possible before moving to the airport...(as it may be
sometime!!!)..
Thanks again for all your help.....!!
Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: XP-360 Engine and Vans Cowling |
Larry,
Go with what ever matches the Lycoming O-360-A1A from Vans.
the XP-360 is a matchup size for size dimensionally speaking.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: RV-List: XP-360 Engine and Vans Cowling
>
> Does anyone know what cowling choice through Vans goes with the XP-360
> engine by Superior? What about XP-360 fuel injection?
>
> Larry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Wings... |
In a message dated 9/9/02 10:58:30 PM Eastern Daylight Time, KAKlewin(at)aol.com
writes:
<<
More questions for the more experienced of ya'll......I exhausted the
archives tonight and didn't come up with much to answer my question.....
Im currently finishing up the wings on a QB 6A (wings are already drilled to
match the fuse mounts and landing gear mounts) and would like to do the
final
mounting ( rear spar attach and foward support)...along with all the
associated fuel lines and wiring.....
I have the fuse on a jig (not on gear), level, and the wing spar in the fuse
with supports for the wing to keep the bolt holes aligned.....but only room
in the garage to do one wing at a time.....(envy guys with a large shop or
big hangar...=).....)
Once I have the wing bolted in with every other bolt or so...do I dare do
the
alignment for sweep and angle of incidence and drill the rear spar per the
instructions without the other wing on at the same time?? Its seems you can
do the angle of incidence easy enough one at a time with the fuse
level....but I'm more concerned about the sweep....can I drop a plumb along
the certer of the fuse...and then along the LE of the wing to set the
sweep.....then when measuring to a point on the aft portion of the fuse,
just ensure both wings are the same when the second one is attached
(separately also).....???
I know doing this in a hangar with both wings at the same time is
optimum...just wondering if anyone has done it one at a time as I would like
to get as much done as possible before moving to the airport...(as it may be
sometime!!!)..
Thanks again for all your help.....!!
Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing.... >>
Setting sweep and incidence is critical and you only get to do it once unless
you're into a frightening amount of rework. Do what I did: Find a volunteer
for a Saturday. Turn the airplane 90 degrees so one wing is inside the
garage and the other wing sticks out the garage door. Turn off the circuit
breaker for your garage door opener. With your helper's aid, set incidence
and sweep and drill the rear attach points. You'll need the helper because
you'll probably take the wings on and off a couple of times before the
alignment is good enough to drill the rear attach holes.
Once you've drilled the holes, put a bolt in 'em and go ahead and rig your
ailerons and mount the wingtips so they match the ailerons.
It'll probably take most of a day, but you won't need to mount both wings at
the same time again until you're at the airport.
Next, pull a wing off and complete the plumbing, wiring, and flap rigging on
the remaining wing. Switch wings and do it again.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pointer ELT? |
In a message dated 9/9/2002 8:40:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
dougweil(at)pressenter.com writes:
> I have one in my RV-4. It did have to be modified by the factory to prevent
> interference in my comm radio when flying near a local antenna farm with
> strong AM/FM transmitters. Since then it has been fine.
>
Ah, now I remember. There was that one ECO to fix the issue Doug mentioned..
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Wings... |
if you are concerned about saving time, I'd say doing one wing at a time is
far more time consuming and risky. Wait until you are in the hangar, it'll
take but a few hours. My hangar mate and I both took 12 hours to install
all the 56 bolts on our -6A's, but we got real picky about washers and
exposed thread count. The bolts behind the gear sockets are REAL fun, find
yourself some forceps to hold the nuts with and a good mirror.
----- Original Message -----
From: <KAKlewin(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Mounting Wings...
>
> More questions for the more experienced of ya'll......I exhausted the
> archives tonight and didn't come up with much to answer my question.....
>
> Im currently finishing up the wings on a QB 6A (wings are already drilled
to
> match the fuse mounts and landing gear mounts) and would like to do the
final
> mounting ( rear spar attach and foward support)...along with all the
> associated fuel lines and wiring.....
>
> I have the fuse on a jig (not on gear), level, and the wing spar in the
fuse
> with supports for the wing to keep the bolt holes aligned.....but only
room
> in the garage to do one wing at a time.....(envy guys with a large shop or
> big hangar...=).....)
>
> Once I have the wing bolted in with every other bolt or so...do I dare do
the
> alignment for sweep and angle of incidence and drill the rear spar per the
> instructions without the other wing on at the same time?? Its seems you
can
> do the angle of incidence easy enough one at a time with the fuse
> level....but I'm more concerned about the sweep....can I drop a plumb
along
> the certer of the fuse...and then along the LE of the wing to set the
> sweep.....then when measuring to a point on the aft portion of the fuse,
> just ensure both wings are the same when the second one is attached
> (separately also).....???
>
> I know doing this in a hangar with both wings at the same time is
> optimum...just wondering if anyone has done it one at a time as I would
like
> to get as much done as possible before moving to the airport...(as it may
be
> sometime!!!)..
>
> Thanks again for all your help.....!!
>
> Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
>
> Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl:
> Set it up wit= h the top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher
> than the top of the cowl. That's because, after 100 hours or
> so, the engine will sag slightly on t= he mounts.
This does not always happen - my plane is exactly one year old today
with 200 hours, and there is no perceptable sag in the engine. These are
whatever mounts Van sells or at least sold a couple years back.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 200 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Mounting Wings... |
I propped my garage door open and built a temporary wall and roof to
extend the garage about 7 feet so I could have enough room to do both
wings. It's been that way for eight or nine months now and the neighbors
haven't complained. It makes it nice for rigging flaps and ailerons and
such too.
Good luck with the rigging. Take your time and do it carefully.
Ed Holyoke
6QB
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
KAKlewin(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Mounting Wings...
More questions for the more experienced of ya'll......I exhausted the
archives tonight and didn't come up with much to answer my question.....
Im currently finishing up the wings on a QB 6A (wings are already
drilled to
match the fuse mounts and landing gear mounts) and would like to do the
final
mounting ( rear spar attach and foward support)...along with all the
associated fuel lines and wiring.....
I have the fuse on a jig (not on gear), level, and the wing spar in the
fuse
with supports for the wing to keep the bolt holes aligned.....but only
room
in the garage to do one wing at a time.....(envy guys with a large shop
or
big hangar...=).....)
Once I have the wing bolted in with every other bolt or so...do I dare
do the
alignment for sweep and angle of incidence and drill the rear spar per
the
instructions without the other wing on at the same time?? Its seems you
can
do the angle of incidence easy enough one at a time with the fuse
level....but I'm more concerned about the sweep....can I drop a plumb
along
the certer of the fuse...and then along the LE of the wing to set the
sweep.....then when measuring to a point on the aft portion of the fuse,
just ensure both wings are the same when the second one is attached
(separately also).....???
I know doing this in a hangar with both wings at the same time is
optimum...just wondering if anyone has done it one at a time as I would
like
to get as much done as possible before moving to the airport...(as it
may be
sometime!!!)..
Thanks again for all your help.....!!
Kurt Klewin, RV6A Finishing....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Kevin ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Kevin
Subject: Reno Race Photos...
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv8r300@attbi.com.09.09.2002/index.html
--------------------------------------------
o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE
Share your files and photos with other List members simply by
emailing the files to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text
Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos.
o Main Photo Share Index:
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
--------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "davefried" <davefried(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing) |
----- Original Message -----
From: Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing)
> Can you give us some details about the wing? Airfoil, span, wing
> area, washout (if any) percent thickness at the tip? I also notice a
> fairly big control horn for the aileron.
>
> And how about the engine/prop, and empty weight of your RV.
>
> Laird RV-6 580 hrs
What I did (from a posting dated Feb 95....)
To use the fuselage design without modification, the wing chord at
the
fuselage side is unchanged (58 in. @ Y=22.5 in.). Inboard of this
point the spars mate to the fuselage in the usual way.
Although the structure has been restressed and resized as required,
it
goes together like the standard wing. Things generally scale down
moving out toward the tip.
The airfoil section, incidence, dihedral and twist are unchanged.
The
mainspar remains at 30% chord and is unswept.
Aspect ratio was increased from 4.76 to 6.0 Fixing the span at 25
ft.
set the average chord to 50 in. at Y=75 in.. With the chord known
at the fuselage side and mid span, a linear taper gave a tip chord
of
38.6 in. at Y=150 in.. Wing area of the new planform is 104.2 ft.
2
compared with 111.2 ft.
2 for the rectangular wing. Each flap is 1
ft.
longer and the fuel tanks one rib bay longer. Fuel capacity is
40 USG in total.
It took me long enough to get it finished but now it is and so the fun
begins.
The engine is an overhauled Lyc 360, injected, 9.0 to 1 cr, ported and
polished.
The builder claims a little better than 180 hp.
The prop is a Hartzell. Never mind the performance part, the weight of it
helps
keep the C.G. where I want it.
Empty weight came out at 1054 pounds. This will increase as I add gear
fairings
upholstery, lights and paint. The flight physician convinced me to put my
sweet
self on a diet. The aircraft's loaded weight might actually decrease ;)
I managed to convince myself that the roll damping characteristic of the
longer wing
would reduce roll power. There is a 6 inch sheet metal aileron extension
outboard
of the hinge to increase the area. The leading edge of the balance matches
the rest
of the aileron. It is not a balance horn if that is what you meant.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Watrous, Donald" <WatrousD(at)ndu.edu> |
I am interested in learning more about the RV-8, especially with regards to
it's aerobatic capabilities and performance. Is there anyone out there in
the in the metropolitan D.C. area who built/flies one and would be willing
to educate me? I am a military pilot thinking about owning an airplane
suitable for both weekend acrobatics and cross-country trips. My friends
indicate the RV-8 may fit both my desires and budget. Any help would be
appreciated. My individual e-mail account is watrousd(at)ndu.edu
. Thank You.
Don W.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DAVAWALKER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: vertical stabilizer offset |
Dave, Talked to one of Van's guys recently, don't remember who, and he said
they are centering the VS and using a rudder tab. Might be worth while to
E-mail Van's and confirm this.
Dale Walker
RV7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl:
> > Set it up wit= h the top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher
> > than the top of the cowl. That's because, after 100 hours or
> > so, the engine will sag slightly on t= he mounts.
>
> This does not always happen - my plane is exactly one year old today
> with 200 hours, and there is no perceptable sag in the engine. These are
> whatever mounts Van sells or at least sold a couple years back.
Same here. The anticipated "sag" never occurred.
Fortunately, I messed up and got the spinner aligned correctly during
the initial fit-up. ;-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 418 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
I am thinking about making fiberglass plug inserts for my conventional
cowling that would adapt the factory oval, large inlets to smaller, circular
inlets as in the Holey Cowl design. If I did so, should I make the diameter
equal to the height (smallest dimension) of the factory inlets, or would I
need to remove some original cowl material to get the round inlets a bit
larger? I would appreciate a suggested starting diameter for round inlets,
in other words.
Will this change play heck with my cylinder cooling, which is presently very
good and very well balanced? I am tempted to "leave well enough alone," but
the heat is on to get all the anticipated speed mods done at one time, so I
only have to repitch my Sensenich _once_ after all the clean-up and hop-up is
finished.
Thanks in advance.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 250 hrs- 160 hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <michael.j.robbins(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | SF Bay Area Airports |
SF Bay RVers;
I am planning a trip to the SF bay on Friday from Seattle and thinking of
going into Palo Alto, since that is the closest airport to our
destination. Is that a good choice for overnighting my just completed and
still waiting for that first dent RV-8? And how do I get into there from
the north? Contact Bay Approach? And will they talk to us little guys
flying VFR?
Thanks.
Mike Robbins
RV-8 N88MJ 82 hours
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Bill Benedict once told me that they put yarns on the inlets once and
noticed that the interior portion of the rextangular opening actually flowed
forward. Apparently the right opening has less flow also. You will notice
some planes with assymetrical openings now.
I would try making some temp inserts before chopping the cowl. I, in
fact, made some for mine but haven't tried them yet.
My original round outlets were formed around 4" pvc union couplings.
Slice them first so they can easily be removed. Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling
inlets
>
> I am thinking about making fiberglass plug inserts for my conventional
> cowling that would adapt the factory oval, large inlets to smaller,
circular
> inlets as in the Holey Cowl design. If I did so, should I make the
diameter
> equal to the height (smallest dimension) of the factory inlets, or would I
> need to remove some original cowl material to get the round inlets a bit
> larger? I would appreciate a suggested starting diameter for round
inlets,
> in other words.
>
> Will this change play heck with my cylinder cooling, which is presently
very
> good and very well balanced? I am tempted to "leave well enough alone,"
but
> the heat is on to get all the anticipated speed mods done at one time, so
I
> only have to repitch my Sensenich _once_ after all the clean-up and hop-up
is
> finished.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bill Boyd
> RV-6A 250 hrs- 160 hp
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Bill,
I have the Sam James Cowl (aka, the Holy Cowl).
I just measured the air intakes for you, they are 4.75 inches in diameter,
each.
My thoughts:
1) Looks can't be beat; 2) speed increases are as much (or more???) from the
associated plenum and not just the round inlets which allow less air and
flow with less drag); 3) the amount of work you are thinking about (by
grafting this on yourself) is huge, and not to be undertaken lightly or
underestimated.
So, don't do it without putting in a plenum, its probably wasted time. And,
prepare to waste a month or more on this one mod.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high
cowling inlets
I am thinking about making fiberglass plug inserts for my conventional
cowling that would adapt the factory oval, large inlets to smaller, circular
inlets as in the Holey Cowl design. If I did so, should I make the diameter
equal to the height (smallest dimension) of the factory inlets, or would I
need to remove some original cowl material to get the round inlets a bit
larger? I would appreciate a suggested starting diameter for round inlets,
in other words.
Will this change play heck with my cylinder cooling, which is presently very
good and very well balanced? I am tempted to "leave well enough alone," but
the heat is on to get all the anticipated speed mods done at one time, so I
only have to repitch my Sensenich _once_ after all the clean-up and hop-up
is
finished.
Thanks in advance.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 250 hrs- 160 hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Beaver" <jason(at)jasonbeaver.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
I saw an expert on cooling drag speak at an EAA Meeting a year or so ago, and he
stated that it is now fairly well understood that cowl openings spaced some
distance from the spinner are the most efficient. It turns out that if the opening
goes all the way to the spinner (as on Vans cowlings), local flow right
next to the spinner is actually reversed (i.e. flow goes out the front). If you
move the opening out a couple of inches from the spinner, you can actually
reduce the opening size quite a bit and still have enough air flow for cooling.
Sorry I don't have a suggestion for a starting diameter, but I'd be surprised
if you need to enlarge the inlets very much.
jason
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high
cowling inlets
I am thinking about making fiberglass plug inserts for my conventional
cowling that would adapt the factory oval, large inlets to smaller, circular
inlets as in the Holey Cowl design. If I did so, should I make the diameter
equal to the height (smallest dimension) of the factory inlets, or would I
need to remove some original cowl material to get the round inlets a bit
larger? I would appreciate a suggested starting diameter for round inlets,
in other words.
Will this change play heck with my cylinder cooling, which is presently very
good and very well balanced? I am tempted to "leave well enough alone," but
the heat is on to get all the anticipated speed mods done at one time, so I
only have to repitch my Sensenich _once_ after all the clean-up and hop-up is
finished.
Thanks in advance.
Bill Boyd
RV-6A 250 hrs- 160 hp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SF Bay Area Airports |
Palo Alto is a great airport for transients...but Oakland typically has much
cheaper fuel, and Kaiser is a very friendly FBO at OAK...they'll give you
rides to the Bart station, call you a cab ahead of time, etc.
But if you go into PAO it's about $8/night for transient and it's very laid
back. After getting off rwy 31 (used to be 30 until last year or so) you
can just follow the "green line" (a green line painted on the taxiway) to
the transient rows. It takes you on a kind of round-about route in order to
avoid the 31 runup area, hooks right down taxiway Delta, but it goes right
by the pumps and ends up on the west end of the transient rows, I believe
November and Oscar (and the grass).
Getting into PAO from the north, ask Bay Approach for the "Bay Tour" and
tell them you're unfamiliar. You should be able to get a nice Golden Gate -
SF city - SFO routing, and then usually they'll tell you to remain "south
and west of 101" around the SFO area. Just follow 101 right down to PAO.
Watch out for San Carlos' airspace, though...stay above 2000' or ask for a
transition.
Another option is to go along the coast down to Half Moon Bay and then cut
over the hills directly to PAO. That way you can avoid the class B. But
again, watch out for cutting into SQL class D. Coming that way will put you
on a 45 to right downwind for 31, more or less.
Just one word of caution...the PAO controllers don't really know what a "low
approach" is. I think they usually associate that with a missed instrument
approach. So they don't expect you to be going 200 when you come up behind
that 152 that just did a touch and go. 8
)
Hope this helps,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael J. Robbins" <michael.j.robbins(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: SF Bay Area Airports
>
> SF Bay RVers;
>
> I am planning a trip to the SF bay on Friday from Seattle and thinking of
> going into Palo Alto, since that is the closest airport to our
> destination. Is that a good choice for overnighting my just completed and
> still waiting for that first dent RV-8? And how do I get into there from
> the north? Contact Bay Approach? And will they talk to us little guys
> flying VFR?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Mike Robbins
> RV-8 N88MJ 82 hours
> Seattle area
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | SF Bay Area Airports |
Mike,
I'm at Reid Hillview (RHV) just south of Palo Alto, I work in Sunnyvale,
and live in Cupertino. RHV is a much bigger Airport and is easy to get
to. Neither airport has hanger space available unless you can talk to an
FBO or maintenance facility
And convince them of your need.
We've got an EAA mtg. tonight and I can ask around for you.
Grab a Street Atlas, and follow along.....
Flying into either airport...I'd fly down I-5 to Vacaville (I-505) over
to Concord (Buchanan Field), follow 680 (stay below 6000') which will
pass through the Hills at the Sunol Grade. This will dump you out at
Fremont, East of Palo Alto and north of San Jose.If you decide on San
Jose (RHV), stay East of (I-880) to remain out of the San Jose (SJC)
Class C.
If you go into Palo Alto, check the Sectionals for the narrow path over
the Bay
Avoiding San Jose's airspace. I'd get a VFR Terminal Area Chart for San
Francisco to review.
In either case you can avoid talking to Bay Approach.
Watch for aircraft coming through the Sunol Grade and coming over
Calaveras Reservoir for RHV. A lot of Palo Alto traffic comes through
Sunol.
It is busy in the Bay Area. Moffett Field (NASA and Air National Guard)
is close to Palo Alto and tucked into San Jose's Class C.
San Jose (RHV) is much more open and easy to get in and out of.
Call me at 408-257-3281 H or 408-530-6605 W and I can clarify with you.
My work email is ed_cole(at)maximhq.com
Let me know when your coming, how long your staying for and your general
destination.
I'll do what I can to help you out.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael J.
Robbins
Subject: RV-List: SF Bay Area Airports
SF Bay RVers;
I am planning a trip to the SF bay on Friday from Seattle and thinking
of
going into Palo Alto, since that is the closest airport to our
destination. Is that a good choice for overnighting my just completed
and
still waiting for that first dent RV-8? And how do I get into there
from
the north? Contact Bay Approach? And will they talk to us little guys
flying VFR?
Thanks.
Mike Robbins
RV-8 N88MJ 82 hours
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Thompson <grobdriver(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
I've combined two different posts because they have a common point
regarding the "reversed" or "forward" flow of cooling air at the inlet.
I found the information from the "cooling expert" interesting in
contrast to what we learn in Paser's "Speed with Economy". To quote
some dead guy, "Is there nothing on which we can place our finger and
say "This is so, this is correct"?"
The point that inlets are more efficient spaced away from the spinner
is 180 degrees out from Paser's conclusion that air spilling off the
spinner and flowing directly into the inlet works better. I must say
that Paser's description matches my own understanding of physics. He
moved his inlets inward and decreased their size and picked up speed.
Kent also describes the way cooling air can back up inside the cowl
when the inlet size exceeds the exhaust size - IOW the inlets let in
more air than can escape down and out of the cowl, so it escapes
forward.
All of this ties in with the use of plenums to make the flow of air
from inlet to exhaust more efficient. This increase in efficiency can
be translated to more speed only by reducing the inlet size and thereby
reducing cooling drag.
Bill, I like your idea of inserting plugs into the standard inlets to
experiment with different sizes. That would allow you to find the
"right" size to minimize cooling drag yet retain sufficient cooling.
I've been wondering how to play with that without making permanent
changes to the cowl.
In summary, Kent Paser accounts for reversed air flow at the inlet
saying, in effect, there is more air coming in than can get out the
bottom, hence it reverses direction to get out however it can... and,
air doesn't like to change direction - it hits the spinner, flows off
and if you let it flow directly into the inlet then you have reduced
drag.
Sorry for the long post but I find this stuff REALLY interesting and
can hardly wait to get my own in the air to experiment with the plenum.
One thing more - Ken Paser backs up his experiments with hard data - "I
did this and got so many MPH change" - although he sometimes combines a
lot of small changes before he reports a result. Not to poo-poo the
EAA "expert"... but can he say as much?
>Bill Benedict once told me that they put yarns on the inlets once and
>noticed that the interior portion of the rextangular opening actually
>flowed forward.
> I saw an expert on cooling drag speak at an EAA Meeting a year or so
> ago, and he stated that it is now fairly well understood that cowl
> openings spaced some distance from the spinner are the most
> efficient. It turns out that if the opening goes all the way to the
> spinner (as on Vans cowlings), local flow right next to the spinner
> is actually reversed (i.e. flow goes out the front). If you move the
> opening out a couple of inches from the spinner, you can actually
> reduce the opening size quite a bit and still have enough air flow
> for cooling.
====
Michael E. Thompson (Grobdriver(at)yahoo.com)
Austin, TX, USA
RV-6 in progress, N140RV
Ex-AX1 Sub Hunter, P-3 (B/B-TACMOD/C) Orion Aircrew,
PP-G,ASEL, Motorglider Driver and Unlimited Air Race Nut!
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
http://dir.remember.yahoo.com/tribute
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SF Bay Area Airports |
> Another option is to go along the coast down to Half Moon Bay and then cut
> over the hills directly to PAO. That way you can avoid the class B. But
> again, watch out for cutting into SQL class D. Coming that way will put
you
> on a 45 to right downwind for 31, more or less.
Um, *left* downwind...sorry. 8
)
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
BILL-SAM JAMES SELLS THE FIBERGLASS ROUND INLETS WITH THE RIGHT RADIUS WHICH
IS VERY IMPORTANT-TOM
Whelan Farms Airport / CT01
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
e-mail: wfact01(at)aol.com
Telephone: 203-266-5300
Fax: 203-266-5140
President, EAA Chapter 1097
EAA Technical Counselor
RV-8 Lycoming IO540 (Getting Close)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cole, Ed" <Ed_Cole(at)maximhq.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling |
inlets
Steve Barnard's cowl was based on a NASA grant given to Mississippi State
for the" Study of Aerodynamics of Horizontally-opposed aircraft engine
installations "
With a 200hp IO360 with a constant speed prop, Steve claimed 220mph at 8500'
density altitude, full throttle, 2700 RPM
Economy cruise= 205 mph
ROC=2700 FPM
Stall--full flaps= 53mph
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing --with Bernard's Original Cowl and 200hp IO-360
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Thompson [SMTP:grobdriver(at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:19 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high
> cowling inlets
>
>
> I've combined two different posts because they have a common point
> regarding the "reversed" or "forward" flow of cooling air at the inlet.
>
Maxim Home Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com
Products Page:
http://www.maxim-ic.com/MaximProducts/products.htm
New Products:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/new_products.cfm
Datasheets:
http://dbserv.maxim-ic.com/l_datasheet3.cfm
The information contained in this message is confidential
and may be legally privileged. The message is intended
solely for the addressee(s). If you are not the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination,
or reproduction is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful.
If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender
by return e-mail and destroy all copies of the original message.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BrownScottA(at)aol.com |
Listers,
Does anyone know of ways to increase the fuel capacity of the RV4? I am
concerned that the 32 gals avail with 180 hp is really not enough for serious
cross country type flying. I have heard in the past that some innovative and
creative RVers have solved this problem. Please let me know how this can be
done cost effectively. Thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | SF Bay Area Airports |
Mike,
I'm at Reid Hillview (RHV) just south of Palo Alto, I work in Sunnyvale,
and live in Cupertino. RHV is a much bigger Airport and is easy to get
to. Neither airport has hanger space available unless you can talk to an
FBO or maintenance facility
And convince them of your need.
We've got an EAA mtg. tonight and I can ask around for you.
Grab a Street Atlas, and follow along.....
Flying into either airport...I'd fly down I-5 to Vacaville (I-505) over
to Concord (Buchanan Field), follow 680 (stay below 6000') which will
pass through the Hills at the Sunol Grade. This will dump you out at
Fremont, East of Palo Alto and north of San Jose.If you decide on San
Jose (RHV), stay East of (I-880) to remain out of the San Jose (SJC)
Class C.
If you go into Palo Alto, check the Sectionals for the narrow path over
the Bay
Avoiding San Jose's airspace. I'd get a VFR Terminal Area Chart for San
Francisco to review.
In either case you can avoid talking to Bay Approach.
Watch for aircraft coming through the Sunol Grade and coming over
Calaveras Reservoir for RHV. A lot of Palo Alto traffic comes through
Sunol.
It is busy in the Bay Area. Moffett Field (NASA and Air National Guard)
is close to Palo Alto and tucked into San Jose's Class C.
San Jose (RHV) is much more open and easy to get in and out of.
Call me at 408-257-3281 H or 408-530-6605 W and I can clarify with you.
My work email is ed_cole(at)maximhq.com
Let me know when your coming, how long your staying for and your general
destination.
I'll do what I can to help you out.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael J.
Robbins
Subject: RV-List: SF Bay Area Airports
SF Bay RVers;
I am planning a trip to the SF bay on Friday from Seattle and thinking
of
going into Palo Alto, since that is the closest airport to our
destination. Is that a good choice for overnighting my just completed
and
still waiting for that first dent RV-8? And how do I get into there
from
the north? Contact Bay Approach? And will they talk to us little guys
flying VFR?
Thanks.
Mike Robbins
RV-8 N88MJ 82 hours
Seattle area
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Firewall construction questions |
First of all...this is for an RV-7 taildragger with an IO-360-A1B6...
1) F-601TD is the "brake plate" that goes on the lower left of the firewall.
Is there any harm in drilling the two 7/16" holes through the plate and
firewall now, or should I wait until I'm setting up the master cylinders and
all that?
2) F-601Z is the "aux fuel firewall doubler" that goes on the bottom of the
firewall and has two -4 nutplates for the "Facet Elec Fuel Pump"
(apparently). I guess the question is twofold:
a) Dwg 36 says "IF REQ'D; NOT PROVIDED IN KIT" -- does everybody use this
type of fuel pump with the IO-360-A1B6?
b) I assume I should wait until I have the pump in hand to drill the
nutplate holes using the mounting brackets as a drill template...right?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bob,
Boyd isn't the first person to report better performance (i.e. higher
horsepower) from the use of EI. Others on the RV-List have made similar
claims. Klaus Savier at LSE told me at OSH that his system will increase
power by 3-5 hp if memory serves me correctly, and Bart Lalonde at
Aerosport Power says without a doubt that it shows up on the dyno at
about 4 hp increase for an O-360. My humble understanding is that the
combination of spark advance and hotter spark allows more complete
burning of the mixture in the combustion chamber, instead of having part
of mixture still uselessly burning as it exits the exhaust valve (this is
why replacing mags with EI results in lower EGT's). Anyway the more
complete combustion results in either greater efficiency at a given power
setting, or greater power at a given fuel flow. Neither will radically
change your performance or range, but the change is *measurable* both in
theory and in reports from actual operation....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing with dual LSE Plasma ignitions....
-
From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem"
>
>The EI IS doing all the work! In my airplane (with a '98 LSE EI), with
the EI
>on, performance data from Vx, Vy and top speed are completely unaffected
as to
>the Bendix mag being on or off. RPM drop during run-up is -200
>rpm. After mag
>"rebuild" at 400 hrs, there's no change in performance data.
Performance with
>the single mag, alone, is Horrible--it's like I have a 160 hp -360 or
>something.
Did anyone claim that the performance of your airplane would
change in any observable way?
If someone told you that you can expect any increase in
horsepower or markedly lower operating costs for fuel
was either in error or blowing smoke . . .
Bob . . .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing) |
David,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (120 hrs)
>From: "davefried" <davefried(at)rogers.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: C-GZDF - First Flight of DF-6 (Taperwing)
>Date: Mon, 9 Sep 2002 17:08:49 -0400
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies |
As far as canopee pricing is concerned, I went straight to the horses
(Van's) mouth
> Hi Folks
>
> What's the price of a replacement canopee for a RV8 ??
>
> What price do I subtract from the finishing kit if I get an alternative
> canopee and not buy yours ??
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
>
>
> #80721
>
> The canopy in the kit is $392. A replacement canopy is $523.08.
> Alternatively, sometimes we have a canopy with a slight blemish
> available for $340
> Anne
I went with Todd's canopee because of the replacement value Todd
promises in case of breakage, the tint and the 1/4 inch thickness. I was
one of the original group orders
I have not installed my canopee yet, however, my canopee was delivered
in a cardboard box nailed to a 2x2 framework. The box arrived with
several 2x2 frames cracked and splintered, but as far as I can tell at
this point I do not have any damage to my canopee other than a possible
scuff mark at the apex of the canopee. This was all shear luck as my
canopee was just laid unsecured in the cardboard box, free to rattle
around, that's what scuffed the top, hopefully it is only the clingwrap
covering the canopee at the moment.
Gert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Wills" <willsm(at)spawar.navy.mil> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high |
cowling inlets
The theory as I understand it is that an inlet which is not spaced away
from an upstream surface ingests lower energy boundary layer air. The
boundary layer is slowed down by surface friction and thickness of the
boundary layer is proportional to the amount of surface upstream of the
inlet. The further back on the fuselage the inlet is the greater the
spacing required to prevent ingestion of boundary layer air. I dont know if
there is a significant boundary layer right at the front of the cowl caused
by the spinner.
Another effect is that of the prop, particularly a wood prop (or any
other type with a very thick root section). The closer to the root end of
the prop, the thicker (and potentially draggier) it is. Tracy Crook with
his Mazda powered RV4 suffered a dramatic coolant temperature increase when
he switched from a wood prop to an Ivoprop which had a particularly draggy
root section. The Mustangs (like Paser's) use a 16" spinner so this effect
would presumably be less noticeable than with an RV spinner.
If the stock RV cowl exhibits flow reversal at cruise speeds this would
seem to suggest to me that it might benefit from a combination of somewhat
smaller inlets and an adjustable cowl flap. Has anyone experimented with
cowl flaps?
Mike Wills
RV-4 firewall forward details; Mazda powered
>
>The point that inlets are more efficient spaced away from the spinner
>is 180 degrees out from Paser's conclusion that air spilling off the
>spinner and flowing directly into the inlet works better. I must say
>that Paser's description matches my own understanding of physics. He
>moved his inlets inward and decreased their size and picked up speed.
>
>Kent also describes the way cooling air can back up inside the cowl
>when the inlet size exceeds the exhaust size - IOW the inlets let in
>more air than can escape down and out of the cowl, so it escapes
>forward.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> |
I've been doing new flight testing after my overhaul/new Aymar prop on my
RV-3. I'm getting a Vy of 105 KIAS, and a Vx of 70 KIAS. I realize that
every airplane is a bit different, but is a 35 knot spread bewteen Vx and Vy
"normal" for RV's?
I've crunched the numbers a few times, and I have good confidence in my raw
data. Did the stopwatch/block climb procedure as has been covered in recent
issues of "Sport Aviation." Still, this spread seems pretty big when
compared to those found in write-ups about your basic spam cans in AOPA
"Pilot" or "Flying." These Vx/Vy spreads always seem to be 10 to 15 mph
apart.
Now I know that an RV is no "spam can" - thank goodness, heck, that's why we
fly RV's and not stuff from Wichita or elsewhere - but I can't help but
wonder if I did something wrong in my testing.
Randy Compton
Gulf Breeze, FL
RV-3A N148CW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 fuel tanks |
You could purchase a set of rocket tanks.
I believe there are two different capacities
out there of which both are considerably more
than the RV4.
RV 4 273Sb in CO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Ritter <d.d.ritter(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: RV-8 interest |
Hi Don,
I'm at the same stage as you, having just developed an intense interest in
a RV 8 project. I have done a lot of reading and investigation into the
project by first joining the national EAA (Experimental Aircraft
Association) and the local chapter, 186. As a result I have made a lot of
friends in the area who have completed or are in process of building
RV8's. I would be happy to talk to you about my findings. I'm in the
Mt.Vernon area and I work for NASA in DC. Also check out the web sites.
Doug Ritter
703-360-5219 home
202-358-0025 work
>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Watrous, Donald"
>
>I am interested in learning more about the RV-8, especially with regards to
>it's aerobatic capabilities and performance. Is there anyone out there in
>the in the metropolitan D.C. area who built/flies one and would be willing
>to educate me? I am a military pilot thinking about owning an airplane
>suitable for both weekend acrobatics and cross-country trips. My friends
>indicate the RV-8 may fit both my desires and budget. Any help would be
>appreciated. My individual e-mail account is watrousd(at)ndu.edu
> . Thank You.
>
>Don W.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Veth" <vethm(at)vsrtechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
Bob,
Check out the Ignition Dynamics reports that CAFE did. Very interesting
reading.
http://www.cafefoundation.org/research.htm
Mike Veth
RV-8A Wings
Dayton, OH
czechsix(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Boyd isn't the first person to report better performance (i.e. higher
> horsepower) from the use of EI. Others on the RV-List have made similar
> claims. Klaus Savier at LSE told me at OSH that his system will increase
> power by 3-5 hp if memory serves me correctly, and Bart Lalonde at
> Aerosport Power says without a doubt that it shows up on the dyno at
> about 4 hp increase for an O-360. My humble understanding is that the
> combination of spark advance and hotter spark allows more complete
> burning of the mixture in the combustion chamber, instead of having part
> of mixture still uselessly burning as it exits the exhaust valve (this is
> why replacing mags with EI results in lower EGT's). Anyway the more
> complete combustion results in either greater efficiency at a given power
> setting, or greater power at a given fuel flow. Neither will radically
> change your performance or range, but the change is *measurable* both in
> theory and in reports from actual operation....
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D finishing with dual LSE Plasma ignitions....
> -
> From: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III" <bob.nuckolls(at)cox.net>
> Subject: AeroElectric-List: Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition
>
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Robert L. Nuckolls, III"
>
>
> >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Boyd C. Braem"
>
> >
> >The EI IS doing all the work! In my airplane (with a '98 LSE EI), with
> the EI
> >on, performance data from Vx, Vy and top speed are completely unaffected
> as to
> >the Bendix mag being on or off. RPM drop during run-up is -200
> >rpm. After mag
> >"rebuild" at 400 hrs, there's no change in performance data.
> Performance with
> >the single mag, alone, is Horrible--it's like I have a 160 hp -360 or
> >something.
>
> Did anyone claim that the performance of your airplane would
> change in any observable way?
>
>
>
> If someone told you that you can expect any increase in
> horsepower or markedly lower operating costs for fuel
> was either in error or blowing smoke . . .
>
> Bob . . .
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 fuel tanks |
BrownScottA(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Does anyone know of ways to increase the fuel capacity of the RV4? I am
> concerned that the 32 gals avail with 180 hp is really not enough for serious
> cross country type flying. I have heard in the past that some innovative and
> creative RVers have solved this problem. Please let me know how this can be
> done cost effectively. Thanks!
>
> Scott
>
You can get (expensive) tip tanks from Van's.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
I went with the Lightspeed on the right side with a freshly overhauled Slick
mag on the left as part of my O-320's major overhaul...and frankly I haven't
seen much change at all. The fuel burn is somewhat better (lower gph at
cruise) and the climb performance is a little, and I mean little, better
than before. But all of this could be due to the fresh overhaul as much as
from the Lightspeed.
I hate to say it, but my post-overhauled, modified firewall-forward RV-3
looks to be the same ol' girl, just a different dress.
Randy Compton
Gulf Breeze, FL
RV-3A N148CW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 fuel tanks |
tip tanks don't give you much extra volume and area lot of work. If you are
building you can extend the existing tanks or create extra leading edge
tanks with minimal work. Ferry tanks are the easiest and cheapest if you
don't have a passenger. I made mine just like the wing tanks, sheet AL,
ribs and rivets and plenty of pro-seal. I plumbed an additional valve to
the existing one and now have 5 possible inlets. Baggage area tanks quickly
hit the weight limits of balance. My -6A has a 18.4 gallon baggage area
ferry tank. "Bladder Buster" tanks extended the wing, but they are out of
business I believe.
With an oxygen system you can seriously decrease your fuel burn by
flying at 16,000'. My O-320 burns under 5.0 gal/hr at 16K, 145kts., that's
11 hrs of flying with my ferry tank. Kevin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie and Tupper England" <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 fuel tanks
>
> BrownScottA(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > Does anyone know of ways to increase the fuel capacity of the RV4? I am
> > concerned that the 32 gals avail with 180 hp is really not enough for
serious
> > cross country type flying. I have heard in the past that some innovative
and
> > creative RVers have solved this problem. Please let me know how this can
be
> > done cost effectively. Thanks!
> >
> > Scott
> >
> You can get (expensive) tip tanks from Van's.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
on our trip to AK last year, my Jeff Rose ignition , 160hp, beat the 150hp
Bendix powered -6A by $10+ at every fill-up. Our planes are identical
otherwise. I think that trip alone paid for the ignition! Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
With the introduction of the KLEZ virus, it is no longer possible to
assume that the person in the 'from:' field is really the sender.
Spammers have known for some time how to alter the sender info to hide
themselves, usually using some obviously made-up email address. KLEZ
does the same thing but makes it more plausible by stealing addresses
from the infected machine's address book and email files. The best
protection is to never open an attachment unless you are specifically
expecting them; if you get an unexpected file, check with the sender
before opening it - no virus yet knows how to automatically respond to
such queries. This includes files received from your parents, spouses,
etc. - people whose machines are infected generally don't know it.
Good anti-virus software helps. Most of it not only can identify and
remove many known viruses but can also detect and prevent virus-like
activity. Unfortunately, the latter capability can interfere with
normal activities, like Windows Installer trying to update or remove a
program, and so often gets disabled. Another good source of info is
www.nai.com in addition to the ones mentioned by other 'listers.
I use one of the 'riskiest' email programs (Outlook) and spend a huge
amount of time on the Internet and have yet to be infected. However, I
do get the occasional virus (haven't received on addressed from myself
yet, that must've been weird :> ) sent to me; I just delete the
attachment file. While Outlook may have some dangerous features, it can
be set to deny attachments and, in fact, I filter much spam with it.
Other email programs have similar facilities. (Please don't ask me for
instructions; I'm not an expert on these programs and only have slight
experience with a few of them.)
If you do receive a virus, notify your service provider, preferably
emailing them a copy of the suspect email (sans attachment) so that they
can look in their logs and see where it came from. Most ISPs only
accept email from users on their networks or other ISPs; remote sending
has been disappearing in response to, for instance, non-AOL users
sending spam via AOL mail servers. In any case, only the ISP has any
hope of determining the sender. On the Anesthesia domain at Univ. of
Chicago, we were able to detect our people who were infected (in fact,
we filtered viruses at the mail server so we often knew who had them
before anyone else did) and were also able to catch incoming viruses.
However, our efforts to coordinate with other providers met with mixed
results; many ISPs care little beyond their own domains due to the size
of the problem. Not all ISPs can filter the email through their system;
they have no way to respond to the angry users who got an email with no
attachment because the filter stopped it - it was tough for us with only
200 - 300 users.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - patiently? waiting for fuselage kit
Flion Consulting - Computer and Networking Support
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 3 rotor
Subject: Re: RV-List: viruses
it came directly from you (well, that's what it read as ) and was the
CLEF
virus, or something like that. I haven't had another case for several
days
now.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
3 rotor wrote:
>
>
> on our trip to AK last year, my Jeff Rose ignition , 160hp, beat the 150hp
> Bendix powered -6A by $10+ at every fill-up. Our planes are identical
> otherwise. I think that trip alone paid for the ignition! Kevin
>
I think you will find that if two RV's (same model) fly at the same
speed in 150-160K cruise range, the 150hp engine will always use more
fuel, everything else being more or less equal.
It is just a matter of the lower-powered engine having to work harder to
keep up.......
This is precisely the situation I found when I was flying my 150 hp RV-6
with other 160hp RV-6A's. It is interesting to note that the 200hp
constant-speed prop RV-8 in our group will use less gas than the O-320's
at about 160K!
My 160hp O-320 will now cruise 10K faster with the same fuel flow as the
old 150hp version.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 418 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
In a message dated 9/10/02 9:49:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
writes:
<< My 160hp O-320 will now cruise 10K faster with the same fuel flow as the
old 150hp version.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 418 hrs)
"The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com >>
Woah there!... Didn't you also repitch the prop, change intersection
fairings, change gear leg fairings, and change wheel pants? Do those mod's
contribute to the 10 knot improvement, or is the entire 10 knot improvement
entirely due to the engine rebuild/compression change?
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling |
inlets
>
>I am thinking about making fiberglass plug inserts for my conventional
>cowling that would adapt the factory oval, large inlets to smaller, circular
>inlets as in the Holey Cowl design. If I did so, should I make the diameter
>equal to the height (smallest dimension) of the factory inlets, or would I
>need to remove some original cowl material to get the round inlets a bit
>larger? I would appreciate a suggested starting diameter for round inlets,
>in other words.
>
>Will this change play heck with my cylinder cooling, which is presently very
>good and very well balanced? I am tempted to "leave well enough alone," but
>the heat is on to get all the anticipated speed mods done at one time, so I
>only have to repitch my Sensenich _once_ after all the clean-up and hop-up is
>finished.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Bill Boyd
Here's what I would do, for what it's worth.
First, I would make sure I had good data on the current
configuration. I would want to be sure I knew what CHTs and oil
temperature to expect at using my normal climb speed and power, and
in cruise at whatever altitude and power I normally used. I would
want enough data so that I knew how the engine temperatures varied
with various outside air temperatures. I would also want be very
sure I knew what my cruise speed was under a particular condition of
interest. You should have the test technique nailed down well enough
that all this data is very repeatable. If you can't get repeatable
data you have no way to evaluate the effect of changes.
One trick for checking cruise speed - if you climb to altitude and
level off, it will take a long, long time to finally reach a stable
speed. If you know from experience what IAS to expect, you can climb
a bit above the test altitude, then dive down and accelerate to this
IAS, set power and wait a bit to see what speed you get. Cruise
speed testing is much more repeatable if you can do it with the
throttle fully open, so you always get the same MP.
Once you know the cruise and cooling perf of the current
configuration (including in a worst case hot summer condition), you
can start making changes and evaluating the effects. Personally, I
wouldn't bother trying to do a round inlet mod - too much work. But,
I would make up some inserts to go in the inboard or outboard edge of
the air inlet, and use some duct tape to hold them in place. This
way you could try reducing the air inlet area by filling in the
inboard edge, and then try the same area reduction by filling in the
outboard edge instead to see the difference.
If you want to get the maximum performance improvement, you'll
probably want to use a plenum chamber type system. This should
reduce the cooling air leaks, and let you get equal cooling with less
air (i.e. smaller inlet air area).
Keep us posted,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV8DRIVER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: RV-8 interest |
Don Watrous wrote:
I am interested in learning more about the RV-8, especially with regards to
it's aerobatic capabilities and performance. Is there anyone out there in
the in the metropolitan D.C. area who built/flies one and would be willing
to educate me? I am a military pilot thinking about owning an airplane
suitable for both weekend acrobatics and cross-country trips. My friends
indicate the RV-8 may fit both my desires and budget. Any help would be
appreciated. My individual e-mail account is watrousd(at)ndu.edu
. Thank You.<
Don, some time ago one of the magazines, KIt Planes or Sport Aviation, had in
their "aircraft completed and restored" photo section an RV-8 built by a
very high-time retired fighter jock whose comment was that it was "the best
airplane he ever flew". You can take this as the hearsay that it is, but my
high-time building partner, who flew F-104s and F-16s for the Norwegian AF,
after flying the Van's demo RV-8, said to me "we have to build this
airplane". My suggestion is to hook up with someone in your area and take a
hop, or fly out to Van's and take the $60,000 free ride. Have fun!
Andy Johnson, fuselage systems 'n stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 9/10/02 9:49:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
> writes:
>
> << My 160hp O-320 will now cruise 10K faster with the same fuel flow as the
> old 150hp version.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 418 hrs)
> "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com >>
>
> Woah there!... Didn't you also repitch the prop, change intersection
> fairings, change gear leg fairings, and change wheel pants? Do those mod's
> contribute to the 10 knot improvement, or is the entire 10 knot improvement
> entirely due to the engine rebuild/compression change?
>
The better cruise performance I referenced occurred after the engine
overhaul. Ok...ok....maybe a little of the boost came from the fresh
engine, but I think if you search the archives and talk to pilots who
have experience with both 150hp and 160 hp in the same plane that you
will find the 160hp will be more efficient at cruise speeds.
These numbers are very hard to nail down precisely because there are so
many variables, but I feel safe in making the general assumptions I have
stated.
Notice I didn't mention increase in top speed after all the mods were
made; that resulted in more than 10K increase! :-) I only stated
changes in speed at a specific fuel flow following the change from 150hp
to 160hp. The prop was repitched only to bring it into standard specs
for a 160hp engine.
By the way, some of the other speed improvements occurred after I sealed
the aileron and elevator gaps with NASCAR stickers. I also used a large
hammer to "fair" in some of the protrusions where the rudder cables exit
and the tail wheel spring protrudes. The new chrome tailpipe extensions
also added a knot or two, but I lost that gain when I added the "Heart
of Dixie" license plate to the lower cowl......
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Loren Pettis <av8r_pt(at)yahoo.com> |
Roger Crandell wrote:
--> RV6-List message posted by: Roger Crandell
Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
Thanks
Roger
I am assuming you are able to get #8 platenuts in non countersunk single ear variety.
I use these and simply added a .040 shim and countersunk the shim.
Pt
---------------------------------
9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
Does anyone have a list of the prize winning RV's from this past weekend
at the RV Forum in Oswego?
Jim Cimino
RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL 75+ Hrs.
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
(570)842-4057
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Strength of riveted joints |
>
>Oh yeah, and prime those lap joints well. They are the number 1 place for
>corrosion to find a home.
Joints are the number one corrosion spots because water collects there and
etc, etc.
Prime yes, but also don't have joints, laps etc where water can collect and
not drain back out.
CHEM 101: What is the most powerful solvent on planet earth???
ANS( water ). Took me a long time to figure this out. It will dissolve
aluminum or make it wish it was dissolved!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
Let's see now. Same airplane at same speed should in theory produce the same
amount of aerodynamic drag which will require the same amount of thrust
horsepower to balance said drag.
Re-pitching the prop could change the advance ratio vs. prop efficiency
curve a bit so possibly the engine needs to produce less mechanical
horsepower to provide the same thrust horsepower. Producing less mechanical
horsepower requires less chemical energy = fuel.
Then to, the engine specific fuel consumption is presumably improved a bit
by the slightly higher compression ratio, this being the usual method to get
the extra ten horses out of the same cubic inch "swept volume" in the
cylinders in the 160 hp O-320s.
Interesting that the fuel consumption numbers are so noticeably better.
BTW, how does one go about arranging gap seals with NASCAR stickers?? Any
special driver or sponsor name required ?? Will Greenpeace stickers or last
years political campaign bumper stickers do ?? Inquiring minds need to know,
Sam.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A (just found out how many pinholes are in an S type cowl
after the first primer coat; well, no, actually I lost
count......)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: "mag" drop with electronic ignition
>
>
> KBoatri144(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > In a message dated 9/10/02 9:49:49 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
sbuc(at)hiwaay.net
> > writes:
> >
> > << My 160hp O-320 will now cruise 10K faster with the same fuel flow as
the
> > old 150hp version.
> >
> > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 418 hrs)
> > "The RV Journal" http://thervjournal.com >>
> >
> > Woah there!... Didn't you also repitch the prop, change intersection
> > fairings, change gear leg fairings, and change wheel pants? Do those
mod's
> > contribute to the 10 knot improvement, or is the entire 10 knot
improvement
> > entirely due to the engine rebuild/compression change?
> >
>
>
> The better cruise performance I referenced occurred after the engine
> overhaul. Ok...ok....maybe a little of the boost came from the fresh
> engine, but I think if you search the archives and talk to pilots who
> have experience with both 150hp and 160 hp in the same plane that you
> will find the 160hp will be more efficient at cruise speeds.
>
> These numbers are very hard to nail down precisely because there are so
> many variables, but I feel safe in making the general assumptions I have
> stated.
>
> Notice I didn't mention increase in top speed after all the mods were
> made; that resulted in more than 10K increase! :-) I only stated
> changes in speed at a specific fuel flow following the change from 150hp
> to 160hp. The prop was repitched only to bring it into standard specs
> for a 160hp engine.
>
> By the way, some of the other speed improvements occurred after I sealed
> the aileron and elevator gaps with NASCAR stickers. I also used a large
> hammer to "fair" in some of the protrusions where the rudder cables exit
> and the tail wheel spring protrudes. The new chrome tailpipe extensions
> also added a knot or two, but I lost that gain when I added the "Heart
> of Dixie" license plate to the lower cowl......
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
I agrre with Kevin about modifying your inlet shape. Think about the air
passage inside the cowl, many places to clean up sharp corners. I've seen
baffles to prevent cooling air from escaping from around the spinner and
help it smoothly go to the rear for instance. I have read a lot about
exhaust augmentation where the exhaust boost is used to accelerate the
cooling air as it leaves the cowl. Don't get too busy with the inlet when
so much can be done downstream which won't even mess up your paint job (not
that it ever stopped me:-) Kevin (Lane)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling
inlets
>
> >
> >I am thinking about making fiberglass plug inserts for my conventional
> >cowling that would adapt the factory oval, large inlets to smaller,
circular
> >inlets as in the Holey Cowl design. If I did so, should I make the
diameter
> >equal to the height (smallest dimension) of the factory inlets, or would
I
> >need to remove some original cowl material to get the round inlets a bit
> >larger? I would appreciate a suggested starting diameter for round
inlets,
> >in other words.
> >
> >Will this change play heck with my cylinder cooling, which is presently
very
> >good and very well balanced? I am tempted to "leave well enough alone,"
but
> >the heat is on to get all the anticipated speed mods done at one time, so
I
> >only have to repitch my Sensenich _once_ after all the clean-up and
hop-up is
> >finished.
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Bill Boyd
>
> Here's what I would do, for what it's worth.
>
> First, I would make sure I had good data on the current
> configuration. I would want to be sure I knew what CHTs and oil
> temperature to expect at using my normal climb speed and power, and
> in cruise at whatever altitude and power I normally used. I would
> want enough data so that I knew how the engine temperatures varied
> with various outside air temperatures. I would also want be very
> sure I knew what my cruise speed was under a particular condition of
> interest. You should have the test technique nailed down well enough
> that all this data is very repeatable. If you can't get repeatable
> data you have no way to evaluate the effect of changes.
>
> One trick for checking cruise speed - if you climb to altitude and
> level off, it will take a long, long time to finally reach a stable
> speed. If you know from experience what IAS to expect, you can climb
> a bit above the test altitude, then dive down and accelerate to this
> IAS, set power and wait a bit to see what speed you get. Cruise
> speed testing is much more repeatable if you can do it with the
> throttle fully open, so you always get the same MP.
>
> Once you know the cruise and cooling perf of the current
> configuration (including in a worst case hot summer condition), you
> can start making changes and evaluating the effects. Personally, I
> wouldn't bother trying to do a round inlet mod - too much work. But,
> I would make up some inserts to go in the inboard or outboard edge of
> the air inlet, and use some duct tape to hold them in place. This
> way you could try reducing the air inlet area by filling in the
> inboard edge, and then try the same area reduction by filling in the
> outboard edge instead to see the difference.
>
> If you want to get the maximum performance improvement, you'll
> probably want to use a plenum chamber type system. This should
> reduce the cooling air leaks, and let you get equal cooling with less
> air (i.e. smaller inlet air area).
>
> Keep us posted,
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jaye and Scott Jackson <jayeandscott(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies |
Yikes! What a project!
Russ P should send you a Christmas card after all this.
What a great looking cockpit and panel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: alternate canopies--feedback on Todd's Canopies
>
> As far as canopee pricing is concerned, I went straight to the horses
> (Van's) mouth
>
>
> > Hi Folks
> >
> > What's the price of a replacement canopee for a RV8 ??
> >
> > What price do I subtract from the finishing kit if I get an alternative
> > canopee and not buy yours ??
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Gert
> >
> >
> > #80721
>
>
> >
> > The canopy in the kit is $392. A replacement canopy is $523.08.
> > Alternatively, sometimes we have a canopy with a slight blemish
> > available for $340
> > Anne
>
>
> I went with Todd's canopee because of the replacement value Todd
> promises in case of breakage, the tint and the 1/4 inch thickness. I was
> one of the original group orders
>
>
> I have not installed my canopee yet, however, my canopee was delivered
> in a cardboard box nailed to a 2x2 framework. The box arrived with
> several 2x2 frames cracked and splintered, but as far as I can tell at
> this point I do not have any damage to my canopee other than a possible
> scuff mark at the apex of the canopee. This was all shear luck as my
> canopee was just laid unsecured in the cardboard box, free to rattle
> around, that's what scuffed the top, hopefully it is only the clingwrap
> covering the canopee at the moment.
>
> Gert
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
So Cal RV Group
Hi all:
For those still building, in particular with the QB fuselage for the -8
series and probably any of the wings, I wanted to pass on two problems I
ran into with the kit. Both of these were confirmed by Vans but it
appears to be just the "luck of the draw" that I encountered them.
1. QB -8 series fuselage. See drawing 27. The fuselage support angle
to which the forward HS spar is bolted was mislocated by about 1/8 inch
too far aft. This meant that the 4 AN3 bolts that hold the forward spar
to the fuselage had insufficient edge clearance. The fix was to drill
out and remove the F-810 C angle and F-810 D spacer and replace them
with corresponding parts that were wider. Van sent the material and I
made up the components. Due to access problems, I also had to replace
the 8 AN470AD4-6 rivets through the F-810C angle and F-810 bulkhead with
AN3 bolts. You can learn if you have this problem by placing the
horizontal stab in place, clamping it to the F-811B bars and measuring
to see if the forward edge of the HS 814 angle in the stabilizer is
approximately aligned with the forward edge of the F-810C angle in the
fuselage. If it is not, you may have the edge clearance problem.
2. Fuel leak through wing tank access plate. This problem may exist in
all of the planes but I am not sure of that. Therefore I will explain
it generically. Everyone has a round plate on the inboard tank rib for
fuel tank access and/or sender mounting. A gasket is provided to seal
the plate to rib junction. Note this area carefully. There is also a
small tooling hole in the rib near the spar that is supposed to be
covered by the gasket. The hole has to be covered because it
constitutes a direct opening to the tank. However, at least in my
installation, the outer edge of the hole was just about tangent to the
gasket. Since the rest of the hole was covered, except for this tiny
edge, I did not notice the potential problem and did a leak test with
the wing temporarily mounted on the fuselage. That is when I noticed
the leak. I had sealed all the screw threads and was surprised to see a
leak around the O.D. of the access plate, where I assumed it had come
through a nutplate. Disassembly identified the hole as the source and
some tank sealant on the inside of the tank to cover the hole more fully
cured the problem. In short, pay attention to this hole location
relative to the gasket. If it is not well within the edges of the
gasket, you will have to seal it separately.
Bill Marvel
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832
7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow(at)fedex.com> |
| Subject: | Ellison Throttle Body Question |
Hi - I have a question for someone who has experience installing an
Ellison Throttle Body in either an RV-8 or an RV-4. I have an RV-8A
that I am putting an XP-360 engine on. Superior is keeping the
carburetor (and giving me a credit) but I have to order the throttle
body and have it sent to the build shop. Which leads to the question...
When I order the throttle body, I have to tell them whether I want the
throttle linkage on the front (toward the prop) or in the back (toward
the firewall). The throttle movement is actually PERPENDICULAR to the
thrust line (at least that is how Ellison recommends the set up).
I talked to Van's, but their advice was not real solid. Their Ken Kruger
used to have an RV-6 with the Ellison, but they were telling me that I
would probably be changing it to where the throttle movement was
PARALLEL to the thrust line. With that in mind, their recommendation
was to order it with the throttle linkage in the back. Of course, my
throttle is on the left (as opposed the the center for the RV-6), so my
options are different. I can see where with the RV-6 and the center
throttle you could (and maybe would) want the throttle movement fore and
aft...
Regardless, I'm thinking that I won't really want to change this around
- if Ellison recommends a certain throttle linkage orientation, then
that's what I want to keep. However, even in my state of ignorance, I'm
thinking that I would still be better off ordering it with the throttle
linkage in the back. The hurdle (that I can see from photos etc. that I
have found on builders' web sites) is working around/staying clear of
these exhaust system. Whether this would be more easily done mounting
the throttle linkage on the firewall side or on the prop side, I do not
know. Of course, in reality it may not matter - back or front would work
just fine.
What do you think?
Thanks!
Scott Brumbelow #80077
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
George,
When I did my cowl I carefully collected data on engine sag. In fact I put
together a spreadsheet with all the data and broke all the configurations
out.... O-320/fixed, O-320 c/s, O-360 fixed, O-360 c/s, IO-360 (angle valve)
fixed... etc. To make a long story short I concluded from the reported data
that my configuration (carbureted O-360 c/s) would sag 3/16", therefore I
positioned my cowl a bit low relative to the spinner with this in mind. I
now have 255 hours on the plane and it has not dropped at all. In fact my
spinner still looks too high which bugs me every time I look at it.
So, did yours really drop, and how much?
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 255 hrs, standard mounts from Van's
www.rv-8.com
> --> RV8-List message posted by: "Sally and George"
> Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl: Set it up wit> h
the top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher than the top of the cowl.
> That's because, after 100 hours or so, the engine will sag slightly on t> he
mounts. If you set up initially with a the spinner matching the cowl
> contour, you will later have an unsightly step down from cowl to spinner.>
1/4" worked just fine for me, but you could also add a little more, jus> t in
case. Having the spinner slightly higher than the cowl looks okay,
> but the converse is not true.
>
> George Kilishek
> RV-8 N888GK
> 80+ hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4 fuel tanks |
Scott:
Depends on what your goals are, but I really find that my 32 gal RV-4 (180hp
with C/S, Bendix FI) is really very suitable. I consistently burn right at
8 gph (22" mp, 2400 rpm) at altitude. This yields 170 knots TAS. I find
that a 2:45 leg is perfectly doable with an hour reserve on landing. I
really don't like sitting in this little bitty airplane any longer than that
anyway.
I have flown some legs at high altitude (as high as 13,500) and the fuel
consumption drops to 7 gph. But oxygen is really needed here for long
periods of time.
Doug Weiler
Hudson WI
>
> Does anyone know of ways to increase the fuel capacity of the RV4? I am
> concerned that the 32 gals avail with 180 hp is really not enough for
serious
> cross country type flying. I have heard in the past that some innovative
and
> creative RVers have solved this problem. Please let me know how this can
be
> done cost effectively. Thanks!
>
> Scott
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Hi all:
With all this discussion about engine sag, which I have not experienced in 25
years and several airplanes, I have to ponder something.
Is everyone aware that the shock mounts for dynafocal mount Lycs have one rubber
biscuit that is harder than the other at all four positions? You have to
install them so that the weight of the engine when sitting on the ground rests
on the hard biscuit. This means that for the top mounts, the hard biscuit has
to be on the aft side of the engine mount and on the bottom mounts the hard ones
have to be on the forward side of the mount. I can't tell you the number of
airplanes I have seen over the years with them reversed, or even random.
If you do reverse them, the soft mounts will take a set and the engine will sag
over time.
Bill Marvel
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> George,
>
> When I did my cowl I carefully collected data on engine sag. In fact I put
> together a spreadsheet with all the data and broke all the configurations
> out.... O-320/fixed, O-320 c/s, O-360 fixed, O-360 c/s, IO-360 (angle valve)
> fixed... etc. To make a long story short I concluded from the reported data
> that my configuration (carbureted O-360 c/s) would sag 3/16", therefore I
> positioned my cowl a bit low relative to the spinner with this in mind. I
> now have 255 hours on the plane and it has not dropped at all. In fact my
> spinner still looks too high which bugs me every time I look at it.
>
> So, did yours really drop, and how much?
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, 255 hrs, standard mounts from Van's
> www.rv-8.com
>
> > --> RV8-List message posted by: "Sally and George"
>
> > Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl: Set it up wit>
> h the top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher than the top of the cowl.
> > That's because, after 100 hours or so, the engine will sag slightly on t>
> he mounts. If you set up initially with a the spinner matching the cowl
> > contour, you will later have an unsightly step down from cowl to spinner.>
> 1/4" worked just fine for me, but you could also add a little more, jus> >
t in case. Having the spinner slightly higher than the cowl looks okay,
> > but the converse is not true.
> >
> > George Kilishek
> > RV-8 N888GK
> > 80+ hours
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Good point Bill. I followed Van's diagram on this EXACTLY however.
Randy
>
> Hi all:
>
> With all this discussion about engine sag, which I have not experienced in
25
> years and several airplanes, I have to ponder something.
>
> Is everyone aware that the shock mounts for dynafocal mount Lycs have one
rubber
> biscuit that is harder than the other at all four positions? You have to
> install them so that the weight of the engine when sitting on the ground
rests
> on the hard biscuit. This means that for the top mounts, the hard biscuit
has
> to be on the aft side of the engine mount and on the bottom mounts the
hard ones
> have to be on the forward side of the mount. I can't tell you the number
of
> airplanes I have seen over the years with them reversed, or even random.
>
> If you do reverse them, the soft mounts will take a set and the engine
will sag
> over time.
>
> Bill Marvel
>
>
> Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> >
> > George,
> >
> > When I did my cowl I carefully collected data on engine sag. In fact I
put
> > together a spreadsheet with all the data and broke all the
configurations
> > out.... O-320/fixed, O-320 c/s, O-360 fixed, O-360 c/s, IO-360 (angle
valve)
> > fixed... etc. To make a long story short I concluded from the reported
data
> > that my configuration (carbureted O-360 c/s) would sag 3/16", therefore
I
> > positioned my cowl a bit low relative to the spinner with this in mind.
I
> > now have 255 hours on the plane and it has not dropped at all. In fact
my
> > spinner still looks too high which bugs me every time I look at it.
> >
> > So, did yours really drop, and how much?
> >
> > Randy Lervold
> > RV-8, 255 hrs, standard mounts from Van's
> > www.rv-8.com
> >
> > > --> RV8-List message posted by: "Sally and George"
> >
> > > Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl: Set it up
wit> > > h the top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher than the top of the
cowl.
> > > That's because, after 100 hours or so, the engine will sag slightly
on t> > > he mounts. If you set up initially with a the spinner matching the
cowl
> > > contour, you will later have an unsightly step down from cowl to
spinner.> > > 1/4" worked just fine for me, but you could also add a little more,
jus> > > t in case. Having the spinner slightly higher than the cowl looks
okay,
> > > but the converse is not true.
> > >
> > > George Kilishek
> > > RV-8 N888GK
> > > 80+ hours
> >
>
>
> --
> Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
> P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
> San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
>
> One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Randy - Brian recently fixed his sag after reinstalling his rebuilt engine.
Two of those large washers added to the lower mount points did it. Takes
maybe an hour and an engine hoist. Pulling out one bolt at a time isn't too
bad a chore, nothing like the original installation. I assume that the
opposite would fix your plane. I, too, have had no sag after 800+ hours
(but then we all know how gently I fly :-) Kevin
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
RANDY-THE COWL SHOULD BE SET WITH THE ENGINE IN THRUST-POWER-MODE-SITTING
SAGGED ON THE GROUND AND ALIGNED IS ONLY FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO LOOK GOOD-BUT
NOT TO GO FAST-TOM
Whelan Farms Airport / CT01
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
e-mail: wfact01(at)aol.com
Telephone: 203-266-5300
Fax: 203-266-5140
President, EAA Chapter 1097
EAA Technical Counselor
RV-8 Lycoming IO540 (Getting Close)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
--- On Wed 09/11, 3 rotor rv8r300(at)attbi.com wrote:
------------------------------------------------
Changed your e-mail? Keep your contacts! Use this free e-mail change of address
service from Return Path. Register now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high |
cowling inlets
But doesn't the swinging prop and all the wind make cowl installation a lot more
difficult? :-)
Brad Benson, Software Architect
Computer Data Strategies, Inc.
Ph. 651-730-4156 / Fax 651-730-4161
Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force. 1990-1951
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
On 9/11/2002 at 1:27 PM WFACT01(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>RANDY-THE COWL SHOULD BE SET WITH THE ENGINE IN THRUST-POWER-MODE-SITTING
>SAGGED ON THE GROUND AND ALIGNED IS ONLY FOR THOSE THAT WANT TO LOOK
>GOOD-BUT
>NOT TO GO FAST-TOM
>
>Whelan Farms Airport / CT01
>249 Hard Hill Road North
>PO Box 426
>Bethlehem, CT 06751
>e-mail: wfact01(at)aol.com
>Telephone: 203-266-5300
>Fax: 203-266-5140
>President, EAA Chapter 1097
>EAA Technical Counselor
>RV-8 Lycoming IO540 (Getting Close)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | cmosier(at)comporium.net |
Have had excellent support from Todd Silver throughout purchase and
installation of one of his tinted (1/4 inch) -8A canopies. It looks
great and seemed impossible to break during drilling, scraping, etc. He
has kept all promises, delivery dates, etc... If I were to build another
plane I would get the canopy from his company.
Colby Mosier FWF -8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
> Apparently the right opening has less flow also. You will notice
> some planes with assymetrical openings now.
I guess that's why my right two cylinders both average about 15 degrees
higher than the left. Possibly due to the rotation direction of the prop?
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 255 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilson, James Mike" <james.mike.wilson(at)intel.com> |
| Subject: | Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons |
One experience,
I have a high compression Lyc IO 360 originally configured with new Sky-Tec.
I spent 8 months and nearly $800 total in mods and new equipment trying to
get clean starts. When it did start, it was only after a full over night on
the charger and then could only get two good cranks before the engine would
not turn over. Finally broke down and bought a B&C on friends advice,
haven't had a problem since and haven't had to use the charger since.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Kimmel [mailto:chs-kimmels(at)worldnet.att.net]
Subject: RV-List: Hi-Torque Starters - Hi Compression Pistons
Fellow listers,
Installed in the O-320 in my -6A are high compression (10-1) pistons. My
starter has been decidedly anemic in rotating the engine, and I am
interested to know if anyone has had a positive experience with one
particular brand of "Hi-Torque" starter or another. My starter has recently
failed, and if an upgrade is available now is the time. Looking for your
advice.
Steve Kimmel
N4357R
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
And, you also have to take g-loading into account. It's a rare flight that I
don't have at least 3g's ticked off on the meter. Flying solo, I'll take it up
to +6 g but with passenger I never exceed 3.5 g (utility category). I had
correctly positioned muffins and had almost 1/4" of sag after 300 hrs (IO-540,
so I'm throwing a little more weight around). My original mount muffins (I
found out later) were not designed for aerobatic loads.
Anybody else with NO sag that does aerobatics?
Note: Since talking with the Hartzell people about the prop extension on the
C/S prop I try to stay under +4.5 g's.
Boyd.
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> Good point Bill. I followed Van's diagram on this EXACTLY however.
>
> Randy
>
> >
> > Hi all:
> >
> > With all this discussion about engine sag, which I have not experienced in
> 25
> > years and several airplanes, I have to ponder something.
> >
> > Is everyone aware that the shock mounts for dynafocal mount Lycs have one
> rubber
> > biscuit that is harder than the other at all four positions? You have to
> > install them so that the weight of the engine when sitting on the ground
> rests
> > on the hard biscuit. This means that for the top mounts, the hard biscuit
> has
> > to be on the aft side of the engine mount and on the bottom mounts the
> hard ones
> > have to be on the forward side of the mount. I can't tell you the number
> of
> > airplanes I have seen over the years with them reversed, or even random.
> >
> > If you do reverse them, the soft mounts will take a set and the engine
> will sag
> > over time.
> >
> > Bill Marvel
> >
> >
> > Randy Lervold wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > George,
> > >
> > > When I did my cowl I carefully collected data on engine sag. In fact I
> put
> > > together a spreadsheet with all the data and broke all the
> configurations
> > > out.... O-320/fixed, O-320 c/s, O-360 fixed, O-360 c/s, IO-360 (angle
> valve)
> > > fixed... etc. To make a long story short I concluded from the reported
> data
> > > that my configuration (carbureted O-360 c/s) would sag 3/16", therefore
> I
> > > positioned my cowl a bit low relative to the spinner with this in mind.
> I
> > > now have 255 hours on the plane and it has not dropped at all. In fact
> my
> > > spinner still looks too high which bugs me every time I look at it.
> > >
> > > So, did yours really drop, and how much?
> > >
> > > Randy Lervold
> > > RV-8, 255 hrs, standard mounts from Van's
> > > www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spray can primer? |
What are the part numbers and where can I get the spray can primers that are
self etching . I just have the flaps and ailerons to prime so don't think I
want to do the alodine procedure for just the few parts I need to make to
finish up the kit. The rest of the RV 4 has been protected by what looks to
be green zinc chromate and could have been done over alodined aluminum. I
recall someone talking about a PPG primer that did the etching as long as the
metal had been cleaned with MEK or Acetone.
Pat Long
Bay City, Michigan
(989)684-0581
Working on an RV-4
Email: PGLong(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray can primer? |
Hello Pat.
I started out with a couple of cans of PPG primer. It seemed to do everything
that I expected. (it even has kind of a nice smell-hope that is not a sign of a
glue sniffer).
Then one day, the last can went empty. In the mean time, the company where I
bought it went out of business.
The nearest place that carried it now was about 50 miles away. I Made a trip down
and bout a couple more cans.
Actually you should buy a case when you buy it. It is a little more expensive
than regular primers.
Then I got to snooping around and I found one at NAPA. #7220 Self etching,
adheres to steel, aluminum, and stainless steel...
Cost is about half. I got a couple of cans and took it home and started studying
it. Ah ha, on the bottom of the can, I found a number that was the same number
that was on the PPG can.... It looks like the PPG and even smells like it...
(still kind of a pleasant smell)....
NAPA also has zinc chromate in yellow and green colors, in spray cans....
Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL
PGLong(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> What are the part numbers and where can I get the spray can primers that are
> self etching . I just have the flaps and ailerons to prime so don't think I
> want to do the alodine procedure for just the few parts I need to make to
> finish up the kit. The rest of the RV 4 has been protected by what looks to
> be green zinc chromate and could have been done over alodined aluminum. I
> recall someone talking about a PPG primer that did the etching as long as the
> metal had been cleaned with MEK or Acetone.
>
> Pat Long
> Bay City, Michigan
> (989)684-0581
> Working on an RV-4
> Email: PGLong(at)aol.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Firewall construction questions |
The Facet fuel pump from Van's (unless he's added another model) is for
carburated engines and doesn't slop enough pressure for FI systems. Look up
Airflow Performance in the Yeller Pages.
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> First of all...this is for an RV-7 taildragger with an IO-360-A1B6...
>
> 1) F-601TD is the "brake plate" that goes on the lower left of the firewall.
> Is there any harm in drilling the two 7/16" holes through the plate and
> firewall now, or should I wait until I'm setting up the master cylinders and
> all that?
>
> 2) F-601Z is the "aux fuel firewall doubler" that goes on the bottom of the
> firewall and has two -4 nutplates for the "Facet Elec Fuel Pump"
> (apparently). I guess the question is twofold:
> a) Dwg 36 says "IF REQ'D; NOT PROVIDED IN KIT" -- does everybody use this
> type of fuel pump with the IO-360-A1B6?
> b) I assume I should wait until I have the pump in hand to drill the
> nutplate holes using the mounting brackets as a drill template...right?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Spray can primer? |
Try Napa 7220. I've used it and it works well.
John McDonnell RV7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
BOYD-LORD MOUNTS ARE MAKING-ARCOBATIC MOUNTS -NO-SAG EXPERIMENTAL ONLY-TOM
Whelan Farms Airport / CT01
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
e-mail: wfact01(at)aol.com
Telephone: 203-266-5300
Fax: 203-266-5140
President, EAA Chapter 1097
EAA Technical Counselor
RV-8 Lycoming IO540 (Getting Close)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray can primer? |
One other alternative, Sherwin-Williams 988. It's a grey self-etching
primer good on steel, aluminum, etc. There's two variants, 988 comes in
a rattle can, 980 comes in a gallon can (you provide the propellant).
-RB4
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote:
>
> Hello Pat.
>
> I started out with a couple of cans of PPG primer. It seemed to do everything
> that I expected. (it even has kind of a nice smell-hope that is not a sign of
a
> glue sniffer).
>
> Then one day, the last can went empty. In the mean time, the company where I
> bought it went out of business.
>
> The nearest place that carried it now was about 50 miles away. I Made a trip
down
> and bout a couple more cans.
>
> Actually you should buy a case when you buy it. It is a little more expensive
> than regular primers.
>
> Then I got to snooping around and I found one at NAPA. #7220 Self etching,
> adheres to steel, aluminum, and stainless steel...
>
> Cost is about half. I got a couple of cans and took it home and started studying
> it. Ah ha, on the bottom of the can, I found a number that was the same number
> that was on the PPG can.... It looks like the PPG and even smells like it...
> (still kind of a pleasant smell)....
>
> NAPA also has zinc chromate in yellow and green colors, in spray cans....
>
>
> Phil Sisson Litchfield, IL
>
> PGLong(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>
>>What are the part numbers and where can I get the spray can primers that are
>>self etching . I just have the flaps and ailerons to prime so don't think I
>>want to do the alodine procedure for just the few parts I need to make to
>>finish up the kit. The rest of the RV 4 has been protected by what looks to
>>be green zinc chromate and could have been done over alodined aluminum. I
>>recall someone talking about a PPG primer that did the etching as long as the
>>metal had been cleaned with MEK or Acetone.
>>
>>Pat Long
>>Bay City, Michigan
>>(989)684-0581
>>Working on an RV-4
>>Email: PGLong(at)aol.com
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Johnson" <scottjohnson345(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Advice on nosewheel shimmy needed on few hundred hour RV6A |
I have an RV6A with a few hundred hours.
When it was new, I needed to tighten the front nosewheel nut after a few
hours and then there was no shimmy when applying brakes to stop at about
30mph.
Everything looks good and tight, but the shimmy has returned and the nut
cannot be tightened anymore.
Please note the plane has the wood dampening rods on the landing gear
and I am running about 37 pounds of air in all my tires.
Does anybody have any recommendations.
(Is is possible to cause a shimmy if the nut is to tight ?)
Thanks
Scott / Chicago
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spray can primer? |
What are the part numbers and where can I get the spray can primers that are
self etching .
Sherwin Williams makes a self etching primer in a can, part # 988.
Available at S-W auto paint stores (not the house paint stores) about $5 a
can. The best spray nozzle I have ever used in a rattle can. It is even on
Van's list of recommended primers. Available any color you like, as long as
it's grey. Not as durable as epoxy, but still pretty good stuff. It
doesn't require etch/alodine, I just scuff the surface with scotchbrite pads
and clean well with MEK, acetone or the like.
Jeff Point
RV-6 N187CF (reserved)
getting ready to cut the $$$ canopy
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Spray can primer? |
Sherwin-Williams 988 in a rattle can is great for small parts
etc. You can get it in a bulk can too but I don't know the number. If
you can get a commercial account at one of their automotive stores it is
around 5 bucks a can. I stumbled on it and several of the local
experienced builders liked it better than other things they had been
using.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JTAnon(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spray can primer?
Try Napa 7220. I've used it and it works well.
John McDonnell RV7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Randy:
Yes, mine has dropped about 3/16" in 80 hours. I have a carbureted O-360
with Sensenich metal prop and standard mounts from Vans. My spinner is
still about 1/16" above the cowl line (started out 1/4" high), but nobody
can see that without running a straight edge along the junction. Don't know
if the thing is finished settling yet, but it seems to be done.
From what I've seen, Randy, your plane looks great. I'd never notice that
your spinner wasn't perfectly aligned with the cowl top.
George Kilishek
N888GK
>From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
>Reply-To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets
>Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 09:20:57 -0700
>
>--> RV8-List message posted by: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
>
>George,
>
>When I did my cowl I carefully collected data on engine sag. In fact I put
>together a spreadsheet with all the data and broke all the configurations
>out.... O-320/fixed, O-320 c/s, O-360 fixed, O-360 c/s, IO-360 (angle
>valve)
>fixed... etc. To make a long story short I concluded from the reported data
>that my configuration (carbureted O-360 c/s) would sag 3/16", therefore I
>positioned my cowl a bit low relative to the spinner with this in mind. I
>now have 255 hours on the plane and it has not dropped at all. In fact my
>spinner still looks too high which bugs me every time I look at it.
>
>So, did yours really drop, and how much?
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, 255 hrs, standard mounts from Van's
>www.rv-8.com
>
>
> > --> RV8-List message posted by: "Sally and George"
>
>
> > Another thing to consider, if you're working on your cowl: Set it up
>wit> > h the top of the spinner about 1/4 inch higher than the top of the cowl.
> > That's because, after 100 hours or so, the engine will sag slightly on
>t> > he mounts. If you set up initially with a the spinner matching the cowl
> > contour, you will later have an unsightly step down from cowl to
>spinner.> > 1/4" worked just fine for me, but you could also add a little more,
>jus> > t in case. Having the spinner slightly higher than the cowl looks okay,
> > but the converse is not true.
> >
> > George Kilishek
> > RV-8 N888GK
> > 80+ hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Aircraft Technical Book Company <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice on nosewheel shimmy needed on few hundred hour RV6A |
Same thing happened to me. I tightened the nut as much as it would go until
the washers were completely flat and still only had about 10 lbs breakout.
Tom Green suggested a new set of washers. Seems like the old ones lost some
of their springiness. When I compared the two sets the concaveity (spelling)
of the new set was only 5-6 thousandths more then the other. With them I was
able to tighten the breakout to about 17 lbs which was enough to stop the
shimmy.
Andy
>
>
> I have an RV6A with a few hundred hours.
>
> When it was new, I needed to tighten the front nosewheel nut after a few
> hours and then there was no shimmy when applying brakes to stop at about
> 30mph.
>
> Everything looks good and tight, but the shimmy has returned and the nut
> cannot be tightened anymore.
>
> Please note the plane has the wood dampening rods on the landing gear
> and I am running about 37 pounds of air in all my tires.
>
> Does anybody have any recommendations.
>
> (Is is possible to cause a shimmy if the nut is to tight ?)
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott / Chicago
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kdbrv8r(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Aerocomposites Prop |
There seems to be some recent interest on this rv-list in
Aerocomposites, Inc. propellers. I have said previously on the list
what I learned about them while at OSH in July and that I was still
considering their prop for our RV-8. I e-mailed John Violette, the
designer of the prop, recently with some questions. I have copied my
letter and the response by Harry Griswold, VP Marketing, for those
interested. It's pretty long, so those not interested can delete now,
or fast-forward to the next post, if you get the digest.
My letter to John:
After talking with you at OSH last month, my partner Ed and I were quite
impressed with your product. You did say that at present, ACI does not
have a 3-blade propeller in the 69" range like the MT prop that we are
also considering (Ken's note: ACI does have a 72" 3-blade CS for
$12,500 plus spinner kit). We like the idea of the 3-blade for noise
reduction. The RV-8 that we are building has quite a loud cockpit and
anything we can do to reduce noise is considered along with propeller
performance. That being said, you might just be able to convince us
that we don't need 3 blades for a quiet prop. What do you say?
We are having Aerosport Power build us a new custom engine. Basically,
it will be a 180 hp Lycoming (or Superior equivalent) O-360 with Airflow
Performance F.I. and one mag/one Lightspeed Engineering E.I. We plan
on using the standard pistons. I believe they are 8.7:1 compression.
At OSH, you mentioned that you are using an RV-8 to flight test one of
your props. Can you relay any comments so far from this program? Do
you have any digital photos of your prop on the RV-8 that you might be
able to attach to an e-mail to me? I think it is safe to say that ACI
and MT are the two companies from which we will select our prop. I've
read every word on your website, Ed and I both like what we heard from
you at OSH and are anxious to get some more info. Also, can you give us
the e-mail address of the pilot with the RV-8 who is testing the prop?
Our RV-8 will be flying on Oct 1st of next year (how's THAT for
confidence?). While we don't have to have a prop right away, it won't
be long, so we need to make a decision fairly soon (for planning
purposes at least). Oh yes, one more question -- Are custom colors
available for your prop, and if so, how much extra will it cost.
That's about it for now. We really appreciate your efforts and think
you have a winning formula. I look forward to your reply.
And here is Harry's response:
Ken:
Thanks for your email with questions and summarizing your conversation
with John Violette.
One of our 2-bladed propellers would be ideal for your RV-8 application.
While more blades generally reduces noise (more but smaller pressure
pulses on windshield), the first order effect for noise is driven by
blade tip diameter. With our 2-bladed propeller noise will be
significantly reduced over aluminum propellers. The lighter blades
results in lower reflected shock (vibration) back into the airframe due
to piston firings. Also the blades are very stiff which means that they
do not vibrate (ring) when excited with aerodynamic loads or pulses from
engine firings. We will be testing our 2-bladed propellers on an RV-8
and Tango II soon and will make the data available to you.
We can arrange for custom color blades for which we can quote you the
extra cost separately.
We have had excellent response to our propellers from the RV, Team
Rocket, Lancair, Express, Glasair, Seawind and other experimental
builder groups.
At the recent Oshkosh race from Kitty Hawk to Wisconsin there were two
aircraft entered with our propeller and they won 2nd and 3rd Place in
the race.
We are still offering our Oshkosh Air Show 2002 pricing made possible by
the growing number of propeller orders we have received and the
resulting quantity hardware buys we can now place with our suppliers.
Our propeller delivery lead-time for customers is now two months where
we are working a partial second shift to meet specific customer needs
for shorter delivery times. We are offering special Oshkosh Air Show
2002 pricing which you can take advantage of with an advance propeller
deposit of $1000 (fully refundable). The pricing for our 3-bladed,
constant speed (hydraulic) propellers is $12,500 plus spinner kit. The
price for our 2-bladed propellers is $9,500 plus spinner kit.
We offer the most advanced technology propellers in General Aviation
with excellent demonstrated performance . Here are just a few of the
advantages you will enjoy with an AeroComposites propeller.
AeroComposite Propeller Benefits
Outstanding environmental compatibility (e.g. float plane applications)
Lightest propeller blades yet with high polar moment of inertia
Quieter propeller/aircraft operation with low vibration
Patented fail-safe blade retention system that is best in aviation
Low aerodynamic drag blades that are thin and attractive
Provide shorter takeoff roll, improved climb rate, and faster cruise
Very durable and long life blades that are also repairable
Composite blades that are 5 times stronger than aluminum or wood
Durable two part urethane paint providing years of blade protection
Nickel leading edge sheath protection with 8000 hour service life rating
Fiberglass tubular braided socks protect against blade delamination
Airfoil shape does not degrade with service like aluminum blades
Molded in mesh on both surfaces provides excellent lightning protection
Offset blade designs minimizes blade bending stresses during operation
Blade tip sweep balances bearing loads and reduces tip mach numbers
Reliable one piece housing hub construction uses large diameter bearings
Resin is non-hydroscopic avoiding water absorption and freeze damage
. . . and Many More Benefits ! ! !
The aerodynamic performance of our propellers is outstanding. You might
be interested in the following. Recently we asked Rick Schrameck,
president of Aero Supercharger Solutions, LLC., if he would flight test
our 3-bladed, constant speed AeroComposites propeller (72 inch diameter)
on his supercharged Lancair Legacy aircraft which he agreed to do. The
powerplant in his aircraft is a Continental IO-550N engine (310
horsepower, normally aspirated) equipped with Rick's supercharger unit
which developed 350 horsepower at all altitudes tested. During all
flight tests there were two pilots on board, takeoff was with full fuel
load plus 50 lbs of baggage on-board. The gross weight of the aircraft
for all testing was 2420 lbs at takeoff where the dry aircraft weighs in
at 1440 lbs.
The flight test results reported to us by Rick are impressive. With the
AeroComposites propeller, Rick reported a shorter takeoff roll, a climb
rate of 3100 ft/min from 3,000 to 15,000 ft altitude at constant 160
knot airspeed. This represented an increase of 1100 ft/min in climb rate
for his Legacy. At 15,000 ft altitude, the high power cruise was
recorded at 345 mph, which Rick stated represents an increase in cruise
speed of 21 mph for his aircraft. Rick has since placed an order for an
AeroComposites propeller. See the article on Rick's Legacy in the
current September issue of Sport Aviation magazine (page 48-56, see
comment about AeroComposite propeller performance on bottom of page 56).
In another Lancair IVP application (geared engine, 1800 rpm in cruise)
the takeoff roll at 2200 rpm for our 3-bladed propeller was half (900
ft) of the takeoff roll distance (1800 ft) compared with his 5-bladed MT
propeller. Our climb rate was 1000 ft/min higher and our propeller
cruised faster than the MT propeller at every altitude.
Currently, we are working with a website developer in Cincinnati to
upgrade our AeroComposites website (www.aerocomposites.com) to include
more informative information on our products (test data, testimonials,
product information, etc.). The new website/look will be in place by the
end of October. Please visit our website for more in-depth information
on our propellers.
Thanks again for your interest in our propellers. I hope we have an
opportunity to support your RV-8 project.
Harry Griswold
VP Marketing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List Digest: 2 Msgs - 08/19/02 |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vx & Vy
> Your Vx speed sounds in the ball-park, but Vy seems too fast. It probably
> should be closer 85-90 KIAS (you do mean knots and not mph?)
Yep, I am talking knots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Vy should be the
speed at the apex of the curve of speed vs. climb rate. I timed climbs of
1000 ft in 10 knot increments from 60 through 130, then calculated the
vertical speed. I plotted these points, found my old "French curve" from my
college junk, and faired in the curve through the data points. All of the
points fell in line fairly well. I didn't have any that were far off where
you're having to guess a bit when applying the french curve. Graphed it on
two separate sheets, and the apex occurred at 105 both times.
> which will also be very close to your "best glide" speed.
That's what is odd. Once again using stopwatch vs. altitude block, I found
my calculated minimum sink rate to be -710fpm at a tad above 70 KIAS.
I could do the testing again, but I'm not sure it would come out much
different. Again, I have pretty good confidence in my numbers. The testing
was done between 0700 and 0800, giving smooth air which made speed control
fairly easy. So, maybe this is just the way my RV-3 is.
Randy Compton
Gulf Breeze, FL
RV-3A N148CW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
I've got a handful ---if you still need them contact me directly,
Ralph Capen
Richardson, TX
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Loren Pettis" <av8r_pt(at)yahoo.com> |
> --> RV6-List message posted by: Loren Pettis
>
>
> Roger Crandell wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: Roger Crandell
>
> Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
> sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
> platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
> special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
> other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
> application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
>
> Thanks
>
> Roger
>
>
> I am assuming you are able to get #8 platenuts in non countersunk single
ear variety. I use these and simply added a .040 shim and countersunk the
shim.
>
> Pt
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com> |
Loren,
Good idea. Thanks for the input.
Roger
Loren Pettis wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: Loren Pettis
>
> Roger Crandell wrote:
> --> RV6-List message posted by: Roger Crandell
>
> Does anyone have six ms21053L08K platenuts (anchor nuts) which you would
> sell? These are single eared, 8-32, countersunk, black steel
> platenuts. I have tired all sources and no one stocks them. If they
> special order, they have a large minimum order quantity. Yes, there are
> other options to these, but these would work the best for my specific
> application. I am building an RV6A. I hope to finish by March 2003.
>
> Thanks
>
> Roger
>
> I am assuming you are able to get #8 platenuts in non countersunk single ear
variety. I use these and simply added a .040 shim and countersunk the shim.
>
> Pt
>
> ---------------------------------
> 9-11: A tribute to the more than 3,000 lives lost
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com> |
| Subject: | IK-2000 Flight & Engine Monitor |
Does anyone have pictures of the IK-2000 Flight & Engine Monitor
installed in your
instrument panel? I am strongly considering installing this unit in my
RV6 and was interested
in seeing what others have done.
Thanks
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
> Here's a couple for you guys using the Infinity stick and switches:
>
> Are you running the starter lead direct or using a relay?
>
> Are you running a Vans flap motor direct or using a relay?
>
Using two relays for the flaps. The wiring diagram for this was published
many times on this list. Check out this totaly excellant RV builders
website.
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/
Check out this page in particular to see how to put relays on the flap motor
that allows you to use small switches in various stick grips..
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
Big thanks to Paul and all the others like him for putting together these
informative websites that make it possible for so many others to build fine
aircraft.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe and Marisol Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Alternate Static Source Valve |
I'm considering installing an alternate static source (cabin air) selection
valve.
Has anyone installed one of these? If so, could you please provide the
source?
I found a panel mounted fuel flow valve in the 2001 2002 Aircraft Spruce
catalog, p154, p/n FFV04 for $7.00. Would this work in the static air
system?
Thanks
Gabe A Ferrer (RV6. N2GX reserved. SE Florida)
ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night or FAX: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Advice on nosewheel shimmy needed on few hundred hour RV6A |
>
> Everything looks good and tight, but the shimmy has returned
> and the nut cannot be tightened anymore.
Scott, what do you mean by the above? Are the two Belleville washers
completely collapsed?
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 200 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> While I agree that Randy's Vy sounds a bit high, I wonder if there is
> something interesting about his prop.
I found something very interesting when doing Vy tests. I ran the tests
last year, but if I recall correctly (I don't have the stuff here), they
were run from 3000msl to 4000msl, temp something around 50F. I
stabilized on a test airspeed at a few hundred feet below 3000', and
applied full throttle, full prop. I kept the ball centered, and
adjusted pitch to nail the airspeed. I then timed the time it took to
go from 3000' to 4000'. What I found was at all airspeeds from 70KIAS
to 120KIAS, the time to climb 1000' was between 30 and 33 seconds for
all airspeeds in the range. I determined that best rate was difficult
to nail down, as the differences were so small. I'm sure with numerous
repetitions, it could be determined.
I know the illusion I get when climbing at 120KIAS is that the rate is
not that high, but a glance at the VSI confirms the rate.
Torch away -
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 200 hours, doing annual, including cooling modifications,
report to follow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice on nosewheel shimmy needed on few hundred hour RV6A |
Scott:
Get new Belleville washers from Van and install them on the nose strut. These
are the angled washers that came with your kit and get compressed when you
tighten that nut. If you have the nut all the way down, the washers are
shot. This is a typical problem on Grummans also.
Bill Marvel
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I have an RV6A with a few hundred hours.
>
> When it was new, I needed to tighten the front nosewheel nut after a few
> hours and then there was no shimmy when applying brakes to stop at about
> 30mph.
>
> Everything looks good and tight, but the shimmy has returned and the nut
> cannot be tightened anymore.
>
> Please note the plane has the wood dampening rods on the landing gear
> and I am running about 37 pounds of air in all my tires.
>
> Does anybody have any recommendations.
>
> (Is is possible to cause a shimmy if the nut is to tight ?)
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott / Chicago
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Cowls Too High/Cooling Drag Etc |
Kent Passer is certainly a guru to be copied in experimental aircraft world,
but one question. Does anyone know anything about Dave Anders' RV-4? If
you don't know about it, it is a remarkable RV with an honest to God 250 mph
top speed. (breathed on IO 360) Lots of aerodynamic trickery.
Do an internet search on his CAFE test. Really impressive.
Am I correct in thinking that he keeps the details pretty close to the
vest??
Best regards,
Don Mei
Americans used to roar like lions for liberty: Now they bleat like sheep for
security
Norman Vincent Peale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan & Eilene VanGrunsven" <stanvan(at)pacifier.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
In response to Boyd's letter (see below).......
About 6 years ago while I was doing cowling on the 6A, I talked to Bill
Benedict about the inlet size/outlet size dilema. He had done a test
with temp. probes and found a 70 degree F increase from inlet to below
the cylinders.
If my expansion chart numbers were correct, that would amount to about
11% volume increase.
Many RV-6,-6A builders have cut the outlet at an angle to get a
proportionate increase in opening size and reduce the pressure inside the
cowl.
Stan Van Grunsven
RV-6A 670 hrs
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling
inlets
Hey! What's happening to all the exit/exhaust air during this
discussion?
If the air is cooling the engine that means it has to expand, so that at
least 2-3 times the volume of inlet air has to get out of the cowl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
> > While I agree that Randy's Vy sounds a bit high, I wonder if there is
> > something interesting about his prop.
>
> I found something very interesting when doing Vy tests. I ran the tests
> last year, but if I recall correctly (I don't have the stuff here), they
> were run from 3000msl to 4000msl, temp something around 50F. I
> stabilized on a test airspeed at a few hundred feet below 3000', and
> applied full throttle, full prop. I kept the ball centered, and
> adjusted pitch to nail the airspeed. I then timed the time it took to
> go from 3000' to 4000'. What I found was at all airspeeds from 70KIAS
> to 120KIAS, the time to climb 1000' was between 30 and 33 seconds for
> all airspeeds in the range. I determined that best rate was difficult
> to nail down, as the differences were so small. I'm sure with numerous
> repetitions, it could be determined.
>
> I know the illusion I get when climbing at 120KIAS is that the rate is
> not that high, but a glance at the VSI confirms the rate.
>
> Torch away -
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 200 hours, doing annual, including cooling modifications,
> report to follow
>
If memory serves, Van talked about this in an old RVator. Recommended 'best'
rate was 120 something (can't remember if it was kts or mph).
The conclusion was that @ 120 the rate was the same as the 1.3 number & you
cover a lot more ground with better cooling.
Too sleepy to hunt for the article.
Charlie
RV-4 (sold)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | "mag" drop with electronic ignition |
I haven't finished reading to the end of the summary but had to chime in.
Why does the 160 hp get better fuel consumption than a 150hp at the same
speed.
All else being equal, very simple. A 160 hp O-320 has a higher compression
ratio than a similar 150 hp and that is really the only difference.
If you think about it. At the same speed, the 2 aircraft engines need to
produce the same power. One may be able to produce 160 vs 150, but at the
same speed, they are producing the same power. So, if they are producing
the same power, the one with the lower specific fuel consumption ( (#
fuel/hp)/hr)will use less fuel. Lycoming specs, please don't ask me to look
them up, but I have in the past, show the 160 hp having a lower specific
fuel consumption than the 150 hp.
I love it when theory, factory info, and anecdotal evidence all line up.
Don Mei
That is why the general understanding is that upping the compression ratio
is "free" power. Limitation is of course detonation.
Americans used to roar like lions for liberty: Now they bleat like sheep for
security
Norman Vincent Peale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
Paul (Bessing)
Nutria fritters for you?? mmmm good
Don Mei
Americans used to roar like lions for liberty: Now they bleat like sheep for
security
Norman Vincent Peale
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harry Hawkins" <hawkbud(at)mail.speednetllc.com> |
I installed a Grand Rapids Tech in my six and am very happy with it
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
| From: | Roger Crandell <rwc(at)swcp.com> |
Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 19:52:08 -0600
>--> RV6-List message posted by: Roger Crandell
>
>Does anyone have pictures of the IK-2000 Flight & Engine Monitor
>installed in your
>instrument panel? I am strongly considering installing this unit in my
>RV6 and was interested
>in seeing what others have done.
>
>Thanks
>
>Roger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Alternate Static Source Valve |
> I'm considering installing an alternate static source (cabin
> air) selection valve.
>
> Has anyone installed one of these? If so, could you please
> provide the source?
I used silicone tubing for plumbing in the static equipment behind the
panel. I put a barbed connector in just under and forward of the bottom
of the panel, and alternate static is simply disconnecting the tube.
Can't get any simpler.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 200 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Alternate Static Source Valve |
>I'm considering installing an alternate static source (cabin air) selection
>valve.
>
>Has anyone installed one of these? If so, could you please provide the
>source?
>
I used a Curtis CCA 1550 quick drain valve which is readily available.
I made a bracket and installed it under the left armrest on my 6-A.
It is easy to connect into the static line at that location and does not use
up panel space.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Vibration transmission on RV's |
Hi all,
There exists an aerobatic version of the engine mount muffins which are
stiffer than stock. They are in Van's accessory catalog. I suspect the
stiffer mounts would eliminate engine sag. I'm going with the 200 hp
IO-360-A1B6 and constant speed prop, which is the heaviest possible
combination. The only justification for not buying the stiffer mounts is
vibration transmision from the engine. I'd like a subjective read on how
severe the vibration is with the RV series. I took the famous $60,000 ride
in the 8A demo ship, and never gave vibration a second thought. I may have
been too excited, frankly to be very critical. I'm building an 8, but I
think this is something which may be common to the whole family. Please
include engine and prop information when replying.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cowls Too High/Cooling Drag Etc |
In a message dated 9/11/02 10:31:56 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
don_mei(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< Am I correct in thinking that he keeps the details pretty close to the
vest??
Best regards,
Don Mei >>
I don't think so. The CAFE article was pretty thorough. I've seen pictures
of the aircraft's cowl, cooling plenum, fairings, reworked tailwheel (no
steering links and a wheel that looks like it is from a set of inline
skates), and well faired main wheels and tires, which are of the smaller Lamb
variety. A few years ago, he added a turtledeck to the rear fuselage.
Something to remember is that he winds the engine up to somewhat higher than
recommended speeds (2900 RPM comes to mind), so the engine is generating
significantly more than stock horsepower.
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom" <tomrv8(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Spray can primer? |
Pat,
I use a spray can product from Sherwin Williams labelled GBP 988. It is
distributed at SW automotive finishes stores. It says on the can it is a
self etching primer. The finish is light gray. Sprays easily, and seems to
be "fairly" durable.
Tom Chapman
RV-4- 985 hours
Building RV-8-fuse
----- Original Message -----
> --> RV4-List message posted by: PGLong(at)aol.com
>
> What are the part numbers and where can I get the spray can primers that
are
> self etching . >
Pat Long
> Bay City, Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Alternate Static Source Valve |
Why would this be needed? Isn't there enough redundancy with two static
ports, one on each side of the fuse?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of George McNutt
> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2002 11:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternate Static Source Valve
>
>
>
>
> >I'm considering installing an alternate static source (cabin air)
> >selection valve.
> >
> >Has anyone installed one of these? If so, could you please
> provide the
> >source?
> >
>
> I used a Curtis CCA 1550 quick drain valve which is readily
> available. I made a bracket and installed it under the left
> armrest on my 6-A. It is easy to connect into the static line
> at that location and does not use up panel space.
>
> George McNutt
> Langley, B.C.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vibration transmission on RV's |
>
>Hi all,
>
>There exists an aerobatic version of the engine mount muffins which are
>stiffer than stock. They are in Van's accessory catalog. I suspect the
>stiffer mounts would eliminate engine sag. I'm going with the 200 hp
>IO-360-A1B6 and constant speed prop, which is the heaviest possible
>combination. The only justification for not buying the stiffer mounts is
>vibration transmision from the engine. I'd like a subjective read on how
>severe the vibration is with the RV series. I took the famous $60,000 ride
>in the 8A demo ship, and never gave vibration a second thought. I may have
>been too excited, frankly to be very critical. I'm building an 8, but I
>think this is something which may be common to the whole family. Please
>include engine and prop information when replying.
>
>Steve Johnson
>
>RV-8 #80121
>fuse
I have an RV8, O-360 with Sensenich metal 72FM8-83 prop. It's mounted via
the regular, non-aerobatic rubber bagels. Startup is the worst time of
all..and can really tweak the airplane when it lights off. I have some
hairline cracks in the paint around the base of my windshield and I'm pretty
sure it's from this wracking the fuselage goes through. Lycosaurs shake
like mad. No way around it. I have to wonder why they didn't design it to
fire one cylinder, then the one opposite almost simultaneously, then back to
the other side, and so on. It doesn't. Silly thing fires both cylinders on
one side, THEN the other two. No wonder it slams right and left on startup.
I'd go with the regular mounts and hope for the best. Harder biscuits will
only intensify the vibration impulses to the airframe....your pricey panel
gadgets, and your butt.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
299 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vx & Vy
>
>
>
> > which will also be very close to your "best glide" speed.
>
> That's what is odd. Once again using stopwatch vs. altitude block, I
found
> my calculated minimum sink rate to be -710fpm at a tad above 70 KIAS.
>
Keep in mind that the minimum sink speed is probably not the same as best
glide speed.
Ole glider pilot.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Marvel <bmarvel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling inlets |
Does insufficient exit area explain the fact that the oil door bulges out in flight
even though it is behind the high pressure plenum area? Clearly, there is pressure
here in the "low pressure" portion of the cowling.
Bill Marvel
Stan & Eilene VanGrunsven wrote:
>
> In response to Boyd's letter (see below).......
>
> About 6 years ago while I was doing cowling on the 6A, I talked to Bill
> Benedict about the inlet size/outlet size dilema. He had done a test
> with temp. probes and found a 70 degree F increase from inlet to below
> the cylinders.
> If my expansion chart numbers were correct, that would amount to about
> 11% volume increase.
> Many RV-6,-6A builders have cut the outlet at an angle to get a
> proportionate increase in opening size and reduce the pressure inside the
> cowl.
>
> Stan Van Grunsven
> RV-6A 670 hrs
>
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV8-List: Drag increase due to too high cowling
> inlets
>
>
> Hey! What's happening to all the exit/exhaust air during this
> discussion?
> If the air is cooling the engine that means it has to expand, so that at
> least 2-3 times the volume of inlet air has to get out of the cowl
>
--
Bill Marvel Home/office 310 832 7617
P.O. Box 784 Cell 310 293 2013
San Pedro, CA 90733 Fax 310 832 5334
One good deed beats 100 good intentions...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russ Werner" <russ(at)maui.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
One stick control of the flaps is easily done with one relay. See
http://www.infinityaerospace.com/Flap.pdf
for details.
Russ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>
>
> > Here's a couple for you guys using the Infinity stick and switches:
> >
> > Are you running the starter lead direct or using a relay?
> >
> > Are you running a Vans flap motor direct or using a relay?
> >
>
> Using two relays for the flaps. The wiring diagram for this was published
> many times on this list. Check out this totaly excellant RV builders
> website.
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/
> Check out this page in particular to see how to put relays on the flap
motor
> that allows you to use small switches in various stick grips..
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
> Big thanks to Paul and all the others like him for putting together these
> informative websites that make it possible for so many others to build
fine
> aircraft.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Source Valve |
In a message dated 9/11/2002 6:54:55 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> I found a panel mounted fuel flow valve in the 2001 2002 Aircraft Spruce
> catalog, p154, p/n FFV04 for $7.00. Would this work in the static air
> system?
To open a second (shared) static source in the cockpit, yes, but it won't
shut off the other, presumably defective, source. This would theoretically
average both sources as long as the other source wasn't otherwise fully
blocked.
On the other hand, its big brother, p/n FFV03 (for $12.50), would switch
quite nicely from one source to the other, discretely.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Advice on nosewheel shimmy needed on few hundred hour RV6A |
In a message dated 9/11/2002 3:48:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
scottjohnson345(at)attbi.com writes:
> When it was new, I needed to tighten the front nosewheel nut after a few
> hours and then there was no shimmy when applying brakes to stop at about
> 30mph.
>
> Everything looks good and tight, but the shimmy has returned and the nut
> cannot be tightened anymore.
If they have lost their mojo then replace them. If they still have their
spring you could also make sure that they are good and rusty, free of any
lubricants and/or bead blast them to increase their stiction (static
friction). Many people "over grease" their nose gear bushings and that would
be a bad thing to do.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 566hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Gageby" <jackgageby(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Spray can primer? |
MAR-HYDE Single Stage Pretreatment Primer, Light Gray, No. 5111. Try an
automotive paint supply store in your area.
----- Original Message -----
From: <PGLong(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV4-List: Spray can primer?
> --> RV4-List message posted by: PGLong(at)aol.com
>
> What are the part numbers and where can I get the spray can primers that
are
> self etching . I just have the flaps and ailerons to prime so don't think
I
> want to do the alodine procedure for just the few parts I need to make to
> finish up the kit. The rest of the RV 4 has been protected by what looks
to
> be green zinc chromate and could have been done over alodined aluminum. I
> recall someone talking about a PPG primer that did the etching as long as
the
> metal had been cleaned with MEK or Acetone.
>
> Pat Long
> Bay City, Michigan
> (989)684-0581
> Working on an RV-4
> Email: PGLong(at)aol.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Source Valve |
I too used a Curtis CCA 1550. See
http://www.edt.com:80/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html for installation
details.
As for whether its needed or not -- who knows for sure? Blocked ports are
one thing but I guess the theory is that something could get in the tube an
clog it up. For VFR only it really wouldn't make much sense, but for IFR its
probably better safe than sorry since its a relatively easy/inexpensive
thing to do.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
> >I'm considering installing an alternate static source (cabin air)
selection
> >valve.
> >
> >Has anyone installed one of these? If so, could you please provide the
> >source?
> >
>
> I used a Curtis CCA 1550 quick drain valve which is readily available.
> I made a bracket and installed it under the left armrest on my 6-A.
> It is easy to connect into the static line at that location and does not
use
> up panel space.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Source Valve |
I purchased an alternate static valve used in a C-172 from Wentworth salvage
for $19.
Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
Norman,
We are runing the start button and flap motor thru relays.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (120 hrs)
>From: "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Infinity Stick Grips
>Date: Wed, 11 Sep 2002 18:52:35 -0700
>
>
> > Here's a couple for you guys using the Infinity stick and switches:
> >
> > Are you running the starter lead direct or using a relay?
> >
> > Are you running a Vans flap motor direct or using a relay?
> >
>
>Using two relays for the flaps. The wiring diagram for this was published
>many times on this list. Check out this totaly excellant RV builders
>website.
>http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/
>Check out this page in particular to see how to put relays on the flap
>motor
>that allows you to use small switches in various stick grips..
>http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
>Big thanks to Paul and all the others like him for putting together these
>informative websites that make it possible for so many others to build fine
>aircraft.
>
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A Delta BC
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
I have new pictures taken this week. I'll post them (as soon as Stein Bruch
posts them for me!)
They fit in a "standard radio stack" cutout... nothing special.
jim
tampa
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Roger Crandell
rv7-list(at)matronics.com
Does anyone have pictures of the IK-2000 Flight & Engine Monitor
installed in your
instrument panel? I am strongly considering installing this unit in my
RV6 and was interested
in seeing what others have done.
Thanks
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flap Actuator Attachment... |
Good Morning Listers....
More work in the garage of course leads to more questions!!! Been searching
the archives and vans www links for a picture or description of how/where to
attach the F-659 (Flap Actuator Rod) to the flap. (Building a 6A QB) I was
about the do some drilling last night and thought better of it until I have a
better Idea of what I should do. The instructions don't say hardly anything
and the plans are limited in direction (#40/42/46). I guess I have 2 main
questions....
1. Where on the flap attach bracket (attached to the inboard portion of the
flap) do I drill the hole to attach the actuator rod?? Is it best to maybe
start with flaps set to 40 degrees and find a good attach point...
2. On cutting the hole in the fuse for the actuator rod...I have read in the
archives that this ends up being a "J" shaped hole, which I can understand as
the F-659 travels up and down....my concern is that it looks like that the
way mine is set up that the hole will (in addition to coming out the bottom
of the fuse) will come out the side of the fuse when in the full retracted
position...?? Does this seem correct.
Thanks again for all the help....
Kurt in OKC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spray can primer? |
I would use naptha, (coleman lantern fluid) to clean the parts. Works better
than MEK or acetone.
I used Marhyde self-etching primer, worked real well. A little pricey but the
cans are 20 oz. as I recall.
John Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glen j matejcek <aerobubba(at)compuserve.com> |
>Who can point me at a weblink that has some of those nomex suits the
>race car guys use?
>Thanks,
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A
Hi Norman-
Flight Suits, of 1675 Pioneer way, El Cajon, CA 92020 has a big booth at
OSH each year. One end has special order / one off stuff that either never
got picked up, or was returned for some reason. At 6' 5" and 250#, I found
a plain black suit that fit great for $82.95 brand new. I think it listed
for closer to $400....
Glen
Indy rv8 on hold for the next 2 months...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Static Source Valve |
Re "whether it is needed or not. . . Blocked ports. . .something could get
in the tube and clog it up"
Water, ice. If you don't tie the static tubing so it slants up from the
side-of-fuselage port, then water can get in, and, on some nice cold VFR
day, you take off and get above the freezing level. . .blocked port.
Or, over time, get condensation in the line and you don't have a procedure
for draining or purging the line (blowing it out), same thing, regardless of
how you route your lines.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate Static Source Valve
>
> I too used a Curtis CCA 1550. See
> http://www.edt.com:80/homewing/rhproject/cabinlts.html for installation
> details.
>
> As for whether its needed or not -- who knows for sure? Blocked ports are
> one thing but I guess the theory is that something could get in the tube
an
> clog it up. For VFR only it really wouldn't make much sense, but for IFR
its
> probably better safe than sorry since its a relatively easy/inexpensive
> thing to do.
>
> Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~400 hrs)
> Portland, OR
> www.vanshomewing.org
>
> > >I'm considering installing an alternate static source (cabin air)
> selection
> > >valve.
> > >
> > >Has anyone installed one of these? If so, could you please provide the
> > >source?
> > >
> >
> > I used a Curtis CCA 1550 quick drain valve which is readily available.
> > I made a bracket and installed it under the left armrest on my 6-A.
> > It is easy to connect into the static line at that location and does not
> use
> > up panel space.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Vx & Vy test procedure |
Not to beat this to death, but....
I thinking about reflying the test. Darn, gotta go fly some more :-)
Here's the question: In "Sport Aviation" the test was timed through 500ft
blocks. I wondering if this is too small a climb for accurate data. With
climb rates of 1800 to 2000 fpm at the lower pressure alt, the times are
short, ie. 16 to 18 secs in the block, and that just a small error in
hacking the clock could have a measurable effect. I'm thinking that a block
of 1000ft might be better, or even 1500 ft.
Any suggestions on this? For my RV-3, I could see where a 500ft block would
suffice when heavy and timing a climb at a high pressure alt, such as 7500ft
or 9500ft. But it just seems tight at low alt when the -3 is really wanting
to scoot.
Randy Compton
Gulf Breeze, FL
RV-3 N148CW
Lyc O-320, 9:1 pistons, Lightspeed on right side
Aymar prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap Actuator Attachment... |
Kurt,
Take your best guess from the plans as to where to drill the holes in the
flap ends, then round out the holes in the fuselage to provide clearence for
the flap rods. Some of that clearence will probably go up around to the
side of the fuselage as you suspect. The main thing is to try and keep as
much, if not all, of the hole in the fuselage covered up by the extended
part of the flaps when they are retracted. There may be others with better
suggestions but that is what I did and it worked out ok for me.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A, 6A, and 9A
>From: KAKlewin(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Flap Actuator Attachment...
>Date: Thu, 12 Sep 2002 08:34:47 EDT
>
>
>Good Morning Listers....
>
>More work in the garage of course leads to more questions!!! Been
>searching
>the archives and vans www links for a picture or description of how/where
>to
>attach the F-659 (Flap Actuator Rod) to the flap. (Building a 6A QB) I was
>about the do some drilling last night and thought better of it until I have
>a
>better Idea of what I should do. The instructions don't say hardly
>anything
>and the plans are limited in direction (#40/42/46). I guess I have 2 main
>questions....
>
>1. Where on the flap attach bracket (attached to the inboard portion of
>the
>flap) do I drill the hole to attach the actuator rod?? Is it best to maybe
>start with flaps set to 40 degrees and find a good attach point...
>
>2. On cutting the hole in the fuse for the actuator rod...I have read in
>the
>archives that this ends up being a "J" shaped hole, which I can understand
>as
>the F-659 travels up and down....my concern is that it looks like that the
>way mine is set up that the hole will (in addition to coming out the bottom
>of the fuse) will come out the side of the fuse when in the full retracted
>position...?? Does this seem correct.
>
>Thanks again for all the help....
>
>Kurt in OKC
>
>
MSN Photos is the easiest way to share and print your photos:
http://photos.msn.com/support/worldwide.aspx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
Fellow Listers:
One of our local MN Wing members has his RV-6 for sale. He recently
completed -6 #2 and now #1 is available. Details are available at our
website here:
http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/mnwing/id76.htm
Thanks
Doug Weiler
MN Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV4-List: Spray can primer? |
Well, I haven't seen anyone mention this one yet, it's a rattle can self
etching primer made by SEM products, Inc. in Charlotte, NC, comes in light
gray, P/N 39683, green and I think white. I get it at a local automotive
paint supply store here in the East Bay. It's as tough as the Vari-Prime I
used to use and a lot less trouble to use for small parts.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marcus" <marcustuck(at)cwcom.net> |
| Subject: | Alternate Static Source Valve |
Check out www.rdaviation.com they have a pneumatic change over toggle switch
used by gliders for their VSI systems. I am intending to use one for
selecting between my pitot static head static and fuselage static system.
It panel mounts and looks like a standard electrical switch. On the web
site look under Instruments then installation accessories, they are not
cheep though 33.55 that's about US$ 50 plus postage.
Regards
Marcus
RV-8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Where can I verify the testing specs on aeroquip hose, specifically 666
hose. It's rated to 1500 working pressure, so I test to 3000 for 30
seconds? I'm assuming a local speed shop can do this for me. No?
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vx & Vy test procedure |
>
>Not to beat this to death, but....
>
>I thinking about reflying the test. Darn, gotta go fly some more :-)
>
>Here's the question: In "Sport Aviation" the test was timed through 500ft
>blocks. I wondering if this is too small a climb for accurate data. With
>climb rates of 1800 to 2000 fpm at the lower pressure alt, the times are
>short, ie. 16 to 18 secs in the block, and that just a small error in
>hacking the clock could have a measurable effect. I'm thinking that a block
>of 1000ft might be better, or even 1500 ft.
>
>Any suggestions on this? For my RV-3, I could see where a 500ft block would
>suffice when heavy and timing a climb at a high pressure alt, such as 7500ft
>or 9500ft. But it just seems tight at low alt when the -3 is really wanting
>to scoot.
>
>Randy Compton
>Gulf Breeze, FL
>RV-3 N148CW
>Lyc O-320, 9:1 pistons, Lightspeed on right side
>Aymar prop
>
Randy,
I do this sort of stuff for a living. When we're doing climb or
descent tests for score, we like to chose an altitude block that will
give at least one minute at the highest rate of climb or descent you
expect. This will give a larger time difference between test points,
and reduce the impact of small differences in how accurately you hit
the stopwatch. Too large a block leads to pilot fatigue, and the
accuracy starts to fall, as it is hard to concentrate on holding the
airspeed for too long. Too long a test also reduces safety, as you
will be pretty much head in the cockpit for the duration of each run.
It is really nice if you can have a friend you trust fly chase (a
very, very loose formation) to watch for traffic.
The winds will likely change over this large an altitude block, and
changes in head wind or tail wind component will cause your airspeed
to increase or decrease as you go through the wind shear. You then
need to raise or lower the nose to get back on the target speed,
which affects your rate of climb or descent for a short period. So,
to minimize this effect, you want to do the tests at 90 degrees to
the expected wind. Be sure to do every test on the same heading, so
that any wind shears will affect all runs the same (this assumes the
wind at each altitude remains the same for the duration of your
tests).
For even more accuracy, you can do each speed twice, with the heading
on the two runs 180 deg apart, and average the calculated rate of
climb or descent for the two points. This helps further remove any
effect of wind shears.
Good luck,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jacobs" <jjrv9a(at)hotmail.com> |
Today, I received my Modular Instrument Panel from Affordable Panels, and
all I can say is WOW!!!
I was very impressed with the panel kit. I feel like I just stroke gold. I
mean, even the packaging was superb. I swear I fondle the pieces for an
hour before I put them back in the box.
Being the cheapest bastard that ever lived, I couldn't bring myself to spend
any extra money on a panel. After all, you get one from Van's in the kit.
But after seeing my friends at the airport under their panels on an almost
daily basis, I thought forget that. I am getting this panel. As a matter
of fact, I am sending Van his panel back for a $40 credit (I hope).
I have spent a small fortune in this kit already and the bird is getting a
very basic VFR panel with an IFR upgrade in the not so near future when
funds allow it.
The gentleman I spoke to over the phone when I ordered the panel kit, said
my panel was the third one shipped to New Jersey alone. Has anyone else on
the list gotten one of these things?
John
RV-9A
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
>
>> which will also be very close to your "best glide" speed.
>
>That's what is odd. Once again using stopwatch vs. altitude block, I found
>my calculated minimum sink rate to be -710fpm at a tad above 70 KIAS.
>
>I could do the testing again, but I'm not sure it would come out much
>different. Again, I have pretty good confidence in my numbers. The testing
>was done between 0700 and 0800, giving smooth air which made speed control
>fairly easy. So, maybe this is just the way my RV-3 is.
>
>Randy Compton
>Gulf Breeze, FL
>RV-3A N148CW
>
Speed for minimum sink is not best glide speed.
Make a graph that has airspeed on one axis, and rate of descent on
the other. Each axis has to extend all the way down to zero. Draw a
curve through all the test points using your trusty "french curve".
Take a ruler and put one end where the two axis cross (the 0,0
point). Draw a straight line that goes from the 0,0 point that is
tangent to the curve that your drew through the test points. The
airspeed where this tangent line hits the curve is your best glide
speed.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (spinner, cowling)
Ottawa, Canada
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rv8.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Hose testing |
I believe you should check it at 1.5 the expected working pressure.Cy
Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: Hose testing
>
> Where can I verify the testing specs on aeroquip hose, specifically 666
> hose. It's rated to 1500 working pressure, so I test to 3000 for 30
> seconds? I'm assuming a local speed shop can do this for me. No?
>
> Thx,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KBoatri144(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Hose testing |
In a message dated 9/12/02 6:30:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
Larry(at)bowenaero.com writes:
<< Where can I verify the testing specs on aeroquip hose, specifically 666
hose. It's rated to 1500 working pressure, so I test to 3000 for 30
seconds? I'm assuming a local speed shop can do this for me. No?
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com >>
Most hydraulic shops can test AN hoses. Personally, I would test it to its
rated strength or less, not 2x rated strength. Testing at 3000 PSI might do
undetectable damage that would wait until a BAD time to manifest itself in a
leak or broken hose. Also, why test a hose that will never see over 150 PSI
at 20+ times its working load?
Kyle Boatright
0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
Kennesaw, GA
http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Why? Don't know. I thought the standard might be 2X for 30 seconds.
Don't know where I got that from....
Thanks for your input.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> KBoatri144(at)aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 8:32 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hose testing
>
>
>
> In a message dated 9/12/02 6:30:23 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> Larry(at)bowenaero.com writes:
>
> << Where can I verify the testing specs on aeroquip hose,
> specifically 666 hose. It's rated to 1500 working pressure,
> so I test to 3000 for 30 seconds? I'm assuming a local
> speed shop can do this for me. No?
>
> Thx,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com >>
>
> Most hydraulic shops can test AN hoses. Personally, I would
> test it to its
> rated strength or less, not 2x rated strength. Testing at
> 3000 PSI might do
> undetectable damage that would wait until a BAD time to
> manifest itself in a
> leak or broken hose. Also, why test a hose that will never
> see over 150 PSI
> at 20+ times its working load?
>
> Kyle Boatright
> 0-320/Aymar Demuth RV-6 Slider
> Kennesaw, GA
> http://www.angelfire.com/my/rv6
>
>
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
> ==========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert McCallum <robert.mccallum2(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Infinity Stick Grips |
Paul Besing wrote:
>
>
> Here's the schmatic for the one I did. It is for one switch, using two
> relays. If you want to use two grips, then you essentially double this
> schematic. The only fault with this one is that if both switches on both
> grips are pressed at the same time, it trips the breaker. Not a big deal,
> because it never happened, and very rarely did the passenger actually have
> the grip while in the pattern. Worked great, and still does.
>
> http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/flap.htm
By making a very slight modification to this circuit, the possibility of a short
is totally
eliminated and you can still use multiple inputs. The switch pressed first will
have precedence and
no matter which way the other switches are selected there will be no short. To
do this the positive
coil wire to each relay is fed from the normally closed positive contact on the
opposite relay
instead of being constantly live via the + feed wire. i.e. The lower right coil
connection of the
"up" relay shown in the schematic would instead of being fed live power as shown
be connected to the
lower (unused) normally closed switched contact of the "down" relay and the same
corresponding
change would be made for the "up" relay coil. This sounds very complicated in words
but in reality
is extremely simple and eliminates the possibility of having a direct short when
engaging both
relays. NOT a good thing. VERY hard on relay contacts. I have no way to show a
modified schematic
but could e-mail anyone interested a modified schematic directly if contacted off
list.
--
Bob McC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John B. Abell" <jbabell(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Advice on nosewheel shimmy needed on few hundred hour RV6A |
Hi Scott,
In addition to replacing the washers, you have no need to have anywhere close
to 37 psi in your nosewheel. 18 or 19 psi would be more like it. Replace
your washers and reduce your nose tire pressure and I'll bet you the problem
disappears, although in my experience it doesn't disappear forever. I think
it tends to be a recurring problem.
Good luck and best wishes,
Jack Abell
Scott Johnson wrote:
>
> I have an RV6A with a few hundred hours.
>
> When it was new, I needed to tighten the front nosewheel nut after a few
> hours and then there was no shimmy when applying brakes to stop at about
> 30mph.
>
> Everything looks good and tight, but the shimmy has returned and the nut
> cannot be tightened anymore.
>
> Please note the plane has the wood dampening rods on the landing gear
> and I am running about 37 pounds of air in all my tires.
>
> Does anybody have any recommendations.
>
> (Is is possible to cause a shimmy if the nut is to tight ?)
>
> Thanks
>
> Scott / Chicago
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Cooling - a little long and geeky |
Since the topic of cooling is currently hot on this list, pun intended,
I thought I'd post what I've been up to on my 6A with regards to
cooling. Some may recall that a few months ago I queried others
regarding what to do to get more margin for summer climbs, etc.
I instrumented my plane with a simple manometer, or loop of tubing,
which compares pressures in the cowl above the engine (Pt) with
September 06, 2002 - September 12, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-nl