RV-Archive.digest.vol-nv

November 18, 2002 - November 27, 2002



      >
      > Of course if the part was omitted one would have some kind of canopy
      shattering
      > tool close by.
      >
      > Any comments? Anybody actually used it? How well does it work?
      >
      > Steve Hurlbut
      > RV7A
      >
      >
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Hunt" <robinrmh(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 50 Msgs - 11/17/02
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Dual batteries/alternators/electronic ignitions I recently installed a second lightspeed ignition in my aircraft and at the same time removed my 3 year old concord battery and installed two Odyssey batteries. Same weight(almost) as the old concord, but I do have redundancy. I made the choice not to have dual alternators. The cost is high and I feel that if I have failure of an alternator and if I manage my electrical consumption, I have two hours of flight time easily. Now with one of these fast RV's, that should get me to an airport. And yes, those alternators do require some voltage from a battery to operate. The chances of a complete battery failure are very slim, but with dual electronic ignitions, I felt that I MUST have dual batteries. Searching the internet , I have found that there are even lighter and just as powerful batteries as the odyssey. Sam Buchanan, (http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/battery.htm see his web sight) has found some batteries for under $40.00. Now I can replace one battery each year at annual time and always have a battery less than one year old in my airplane for $40.00 per year. Pretty cheap insurance. Sunday, I cranked my 200 hp engine at 30 degrees, with just one of my batteries(just to see how it worked). It started in two blades very nicely. Point is, that if you use Electric Bob's architecture and spring for two light weight batteries, any dual electronic ignition should be fine. Of course for almost fool proof reliability, use one mag. Robin Hunt RV-8 350 hours ________________________________ From: "MSices" <msices(at)core.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: 12 Ah battery anyone? Don't the alternator's need juice from the battery to keep doing their thing? If so, what if you had a battery go bad in flight (stops taking a charge) - then the dual alternator setup might not help. I am using the smaller Odysey in my -8 - the PC545 (which is 12ah) as opposed to the PC625 (16ah or something like that) which Van's sells. The cca (cold cranking amps) for starting with even the smallest Odyssey is quite a bit better than an even larger ah battery from Concord - so I don't believe starting will be a problem with the smaller battery - unless you are cranking it over for long periods of time and draining the entire battery on the ground (is that a real concern?). If that is not the concern, then the only question left is how much time do you want in the air after a (dual?) alternator failure. 12ah will provide 25amps for about 22 minutes (don't quote me on that) and 16 ah will buy you an extra 10 minutes or so. For my single lightspeed installation, I chose an exp bus with backup battery circuitry - using a small reserve 5ah battery. Probably completely overkill - but its nice to know that if the battery goes bad runs out, my com and ignition can stay powered without skipping a beat. -Mike Sices RV-8 wiring N339JA res @juno.com > > Just curious Mark, > > If I read it right, you're using dual lightspeeds. > Do you feel OK about > having only one battery? I've been wondering if it's > safe to run dual > elec ignitions from one power source for my airplane > too. If an > alternator gives out you've got another, but what if > a battery cable > loosens up? I've been thinking about a couple of > small batteries > crossfed for starting. Any opinions out there? > > Ed Holyoke > 6 QB (slow) > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list- > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > czechsix(at)juno.com > have good luck with it > for > > starting? BTW I'm using Lightspeeds and a Sky-Tec > starter (but no > primer > > system) so my starts should be pretty snappy...) > > > > Thanks and have a good, safe weekend everybody. > > > > --Mark Navratil > > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > > RV-8A N2D finishing...fiberglass... > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: IO 540
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
Stewart, Regarding your question on the crankshaft counterweights, it depends on the engine/prop certification. If you are using a Hartzell compact-hub propeller then your engine will require the appropriate counterweights for the prop you are using. If you look into the TCDS's they will say something to the effect of "counterweighted for the Hartzell propeller." The counterweights are easily changeable, of course, when you have the engine apart. I believe that they are changable by pulling the cylinders, also. There's just a circlip that holds them in place on the crank. If you change the counterweights you can request from Lycoming a new dataplate for $150 with the new model designation (they also add a "C" to the model # suffix to reflect a converted engine). The RPM limitation is just a matter of recalibrating the governor. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360 C/S flying F1 QB under const. IO-540 275hp 9.2:1 pistons "there's no replacement for displacement" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Release Tip-up
sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote: > > > Ref Tip up canopy RV7A > > After spending the better part of the day (cutting steel is fun!) making the > canopy release I started to wonder if anybody omitted this part. Yes they have. > > It seems to work fine, and its pretty robust, but is it required? Has anybody > just used AN4-x bolts with cotter pins to hold the tip up on? I do like the > idea of being able to eject the canopy, but I just had a thought. I did have to > modify the F-643-1 support rib as well as trim a bit of the F687 (part #?) to > get the proper fit. I modified the release mechanism so it would point "down" and could be reached under the panel. The point was to make the canopy easily removable for maintenance purposes; however, in the course of accumulating 430 hrs and numerous panel modifications, I have not found it necessary to remove the canopy. If I ever revisit this issue, I will mount the canopy with bolts and omit the release mechanism so sub-panel space can be gained in the middle of the panel. It is my personal opinion that the release is useless for actually jettisoning the canopy in flight. > > Of course if the part was omitted one would have some kind of canopy shattering > tool close by. You already have one......the passenger control stick would make a very effective escape tool! Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Comfortable parachutes?
Date: Nov 18, 2002
I have flown up to 7 hours in a sailplane with my Strong back pack and it was very comfortable. I plan to use a Strong chair type in my 7. I have had friends bail out of planes in emergency situations and it is amazing what they could do when the adrenaline was pumping. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Comfortable parachutes? > > T Bronson wrote: > > > > > Hi Folks, > > > > Does anyone have an opinion (On THIS list? Ha!) on what types of parachutes > > are most comfortable for full-time use? I would like to set my airplane up > > for full-time (including long cross-country) parachute use, and would like > > to get some recommendations on seatpack vs. backpack vs. whatever else there > > is. I have checked the archives - no luck on this topic. > > > > Thanks, > > > > Tim Bronson > > > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > Good question. I don't have the answer though. > > We were just discussing this very thing a few nights ago. I fly a Pitt's S1S > mostly just for fun now. I always wear a chute. Mine is an old Security 250, It > is very comfortable on long trips. I feel naked without it. It is kind of a > combination seat-back pack. One time when it was repacked, it was done wrong and > the pilot chute was right in the middle of my back, like a rock in your shoe... > > Last year I ferried an S1 home for a friend. I think he had a National that was > packed like that. It was an uncomfortable two legs. > > Maybe a rigger will respond, but I think the comfort is more in the packing than > the type of chute. There are definitely some that are better than others, but > still the pack is very important. > > I am going to have a pair of Securities as seats when I get the "6" in the air, > because I have a matched set of very good ones. I may have them fitted with > newer type canopies. > There are several on the market that are just as comfortable. > > Phil > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RAMTHAXTON(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Roll bar/windscreen seal
Has anyone tried using 3M EC3524 Void Filling Compound to seal the windscreen/rollbar gaps. My mechanic at work swears by the stuff. Bob Thaxton RV-7 (711RT res) ramthaxton(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re Hinge Article-- material sources
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Of the 40 builders that have asked for copies of the article, I noted that quite a few of you are in Canada. (Delta BC seems to be a nest of them!) You might be interested to know that the "Floating row cover" that is mentioned, pieces of which I "liberated" from my wife was bought at Lee Valley (XC505). You won't use much of the 7x50' roll, but it would make a good Xmas present for gardening Wives (Girl friends) and for those of you that don't have West Systems epoxy, (horrors! that's the only stuff to use!), they have that too!-------Cheers!!---------Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us>
Subject: 12 Ah battery anyone?
Date: Nov 18, 2002
I was also concerned about the single-point-of-failure with the "All Electric on a Budget" system. I modified Bob's design slightly and added a .8 AH battery to the SD-8 circuit. The result is two completely independent electrical systems. I now have 110 hours on the airplane. I check the backup system (SD-8 on essential buss) on each run-up before flight; it has worked perfectly every time. Ken Harrill RV-6 110 hours Columbia, SC ....the battery connection becomes a single-point failure in the system (both power and ground terminals) plus the engine ground --Mark Navratil ...If an alternator gives out you've got another, but what if a battery cable loosens up? ... Ed Holyoke 6 QB (slow) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: IO 540
Bob, Thanks for this information!!! A big help for this Rocket bound engine. Stewart ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: "Ralph Capen"<recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP!
I've just done some of this... I ended up with a small piece of aluminum that was machine countersunk that I used as a female dimple-die. That coupled with a my squeezer (no-hole yoke - ground down to fit inside) and the regular male dimple die produced satisfactory results. If you need more info / pictures...zap me directly Ralph Capen > > I need some help from someone who's "been > there, done > that". I am working on the replacement > rudder,(RV-9 > style), for my RV7, and Itiringring to dimple > the top > tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how > to get > to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back > end. > > I was able to get most of the holes dimpled > using a > combinationdifferentrsqueezereser yokes and the > pop > rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the > last two > holes are so tight I can not get anything to > work. > > What am I missing? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jeff Cook > RV-7A, Rudder > > > This Month -- > Gifts!) > Click on the Contribution > year's Terrific Free Gifts! > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > - > the Contributions of > ads or any other form > Forums. > view the latest messages. > other List members. > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > http://www.matronics.com/ > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com>
Subject: Re: N959WP First flight
Date: Nov 18, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: <Imfairings(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: N959WP First flight > > Congrats Wayne !! Every chance I get to fly in an RV I get the grin too. > Bob > Fairings-Etc. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com>
Subject: Re: N959WP First flight
Date: Nov 18, 2002
I am building an RV8A and have built a 6A in the past. I went to Farmerville La. today to see Wayne Petrus new 8A, his first flight was yesterday. A great looking plane! Are there any other builders in North Louisiana or East Texas, or anyone else getting ready to build a RV? I live in Shreveport and would like to get together with other builders in my area to help with their project or just to keep in touch with. Please E-Mail me. Jerry Doyal jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <Imfairings(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: N959WP First flight > > Congrats Wayne !! Every chance I get to fly in an RV I get the grin too. > Bob > Fairings-Etc. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Release Tip-up
Date: Nov 18, 2002
On my 6-A, I gave up on the release mechanism as designed and as described in the manual. I made the holes in the sub-panel and instrument panel per plans and when I installed the pull-T-bar, the spring did not allow enough travel for the bell-crank to pull the release the pins. Cutting the spring and slotting the sub-panel to allow the bell-crank handle to pass through did not help. So I cut off the T handle and used that tube to extend the WD619 crank straight down to the bottom of the sub-panel, passing through a block of UHMW pop riveted there. I put a spring loaded handle and latching mechanism at the bottom of the tube,- works great. Jettisoning is another matter!! I asked Tom Green if they had any history of a successful jettison in flight? --No--How can it jettison when the hinge pins are pulled with the hinge-hooks recessed beneath the nose skin?--The metal just gets torn away---Well, alright, what about the gas-strut?---They will tear away too-----Oh yeah? I wouldn't like to try it--probably take your head off . Carry a small fireman's type axe and shatter the canopy!-------------Cheers!!--------Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP!
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel@heartland-software.com>
You can also get small dimple dies - from Avery for example, that you use with an appropriate sized nail and your handy-dandy pop-rivet squeezer. You can see them here: http://www.averytools.com/showoneitem.cfm?primarykey=37&cat=5&kit=0 Todd Wenzel Delafield, WI USA RV-8AQB - Finish Kit N900TW - Reserved TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com -----Original Message----- From: Ralph Capen [mailto:recapen(at)earthlink.net] Subject: Re: RV-List: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP! I've just done some of this... I ended up with a small piece of aluminum that was machine countersunk that I used as a female dimple-die. That coupled with a my squeezer (no-hole yoke - ground down to fit inside) and the regular male dimple die produced satisfactory results. If you need more info / pictures...zap me directly Ralph Capen > > I need some help from someone who's "been > there, done > that". I am working on the replacement > rudder,(RV-9 > style), for my RV7, and Itiringring to dimple > the top > tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how > to get > to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back > end. > > I was able to get most of the holes dimpled > using a > combinationdifferentrsqueezereser yokes and the > pop > rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the > last two > holes are so tight I can not get anything to > work. > > What am I missing? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jeff Cook > RV-7A, Rudder > > > This Month -- > Gifts!) > Click on the Contribution > year's Terrific Free Gifts! > -Matt Dralle, List Admin. > - > the Contributions of > ads or any other form > Forums. > view the latest messages. > other List members. > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > http://www.matronics.com/ > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP!
Don't know if this will help in your situation but I made a simple little tool from a piece of steel bar about 1 1/4 x 3/16 x 6 in. that worked fine for these areas on my -6. Drill and countersink a few holes near the edges at one end. This is the female part of your dimple tool. If you've got three hands available just tap a male dimple die lightly with a small hammer while holding this female die in position, otherwise use your rivet gun with VERY low pressure. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, electrical (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Dual Electric Ignition Redundancy
Date: Nov 18, 2002
I have had dual Lightspeed ignitions in or some time now, and go back and forth on the subject of dual batterys. I finally concluded that a simplier system would be to provide a way to isolate the entire electrical system (except the main battery) in case of some massive failure. I am going to put in a switch that will (in case of a massive failue) allow me to 'kill' the master relay, and turn off the ignition system, then, flip an "emergency ignition" toggle switch that will connect the main battery directly to one ignition system. This will 'remove' the entire electrical system, and connect the main battery directly to one ignition system. I will also thereby connect my GPS (which normally runs off the main 12-volt system) over to the main battery. (Only takes one DPDT toggle switch) I think if I had such a failure I would need my GPS "nearest airport" feature right away, and wouldn't want to hunt for the GPS battery pack which is not usually hooked up. This only adds the weight of one toggle switch (2oz ?) and the risk of complete main battery failure is so far a remote happening that I think this may be superior to adding a diode and another battery. But ... I am open to suggestions and contrary ideas. John at Salida, CO RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: RV6 Fuselage dimensions
61 in. from firewall to seat back bulkhead where the fuselage starts to taper and 113 in. from that point to rear bulkhead. The cabin is 44 in. wide but if the bottom skin is on there is a 2 in. overhang on each side at the bottom between the wing spar carry through bulkhead and the seat back bulkhead. The rear bulkhead is 4 1/2 in. wide. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, electrical (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV6 Fuselage dimensions
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Harry, Thank you so much for taking the time to get those dimensions to me. Your fellow RV enthusiast, Ned ----- Original Message ----- From: <HCRV6(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6 Fuselage dimensions > > 61 in. from firewall to seat back bulkhead where the fuselage starts to taper > and 113 in. from that point to rear bulkhead. The cabin is 44 in. wide but > if the bottom skin is on there is a 2 in. overhang on each side at the bottom > between the wing spar carry through bulkhead and the seat back bulkhead. The > rear bulkhead is 4 1/2 in. wide. > > Harry Crosby > Pleasanton, California > RV-6, electrical (still) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Dual Electric Ignition Redundancy
Wow, John, a switch to connect directly to the battery, eh? I don't suppose you have read Bob Nuckoll's essential book, "The AeroElectric Connection", have you? :-) All kidding aside, you are describing a simplified version of 'Lectric Bob's "Essential Bus" wiring architecture. Here is a link to a PDF file with schematics to this design scheme and other more elaborate systems: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev10/z10.pdf I have the split bus system on my RV-6, the purpose being precisely what you are describing. Even though I don't have an electronic ignition, all the "essentials" necessary to complete the flight can be connected directly to the battery merely by flipping one switch. This means the main contactor and everything downstream can go south and all the goodies will still function. I highly recommend Bob's book to all builders who are still contemplating wiring their project; the book contains many innovative ways to improve the wiring systems beyond what we normally see in spam cans. Sam Buchanan ============================ John wrote: > > > I have had dual Lightspeed ignitions in or some time now, and go back and > forth on the subject of dual batterys. I finally concluded that a simplier > system would be to provide a way to isolate the entire electrical system > (except the main battery) in case of some massive failure. > > I am going to put in a switch that will (in case of a massive failue) allow > me to 'kill' the master relay, and turn off the ignition system, then, flip > an "emergency ignition" toggle switch that will connect the main battery > directly to one ignition system. This will 'remove' the entire electrical > system, and connect the main battery directly to one ignition system. I will > also thereby connect my GPS (which normally runs off the main 12-volt > system) over to the main battery. (Only takes one DPDT toggle switch) I > think if I had such a failure I would need my GPS "nearest airport" feature > right away, and wouldn't want to hunt for the GPS battery pack which is not > usually hooked up. > > This only adds the weight of one toggle switch (2oz ?) and the risk of > complete main battery failure is so far a remote happening that I think this > may be superior to adding a diode and another battery. > > But ... I am open to suggestions and contrary ideas. > > John at Salida, CO RV6A Flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Release Tip-up
Date: Nov 18, 2002
I omitted that T-tube piece and used some stiff wire which enables me to mount it high on the panel out of the way, not requiring a direct, straight path. It needs to be stiff so you can push on it to engage the pins. kevin -6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garth Shearing" <garth(at)Islandnet.com>
Subject: Re: 12 Ah battery anyone?
Date: Nov 18, 2002
The ampere-hour capacity of a battery is not indicative of its ability to deliver high current for long periods during cranking. If you cranked continuously from a fully-charged 12 ampere battery drawing 200 amps as below, the battery would probably only do this for approximately three minutes. And if the ambient temperature happens to be lower than 68 degrees F, the cranking time would even be shorter. Cranking at the freezing point would probably reduce the cranking time by a third. This is why the Cold Cranking Amperage (CCA - ability to deliver the needed starting current at 0 degrees F) is important. Also, how long will it do this? Usually three to nine minutes is needed. The starter's ability to crank for long periods without overheating is another thing to consider. I can't remember what vehicle I had at the time (I think it was a Cessna 150) but it could only be cranked for 30 seconds before overheating. However, when you think about, if the engine doesn't start within this length of time, there is something wrong with either the starting procedure or the engine!. Unfortunately, a lot of these specifications don't seem to be listed in the catalogues for aircraft batteries (Aircraft Spruce, for example). The manufacturer's web sites probably list them. Many commercial aircraft use nickel-cadmium batteries because they deliver more starting current, even at very low temperatures. You can also drain them to zero without damaging them. If you drain an average lead acid type battery down so that it reads less than ten volts open circuit, it is essentially toast. Nickel-cadmium batteries are quite a bit more expensive than lead acid types. Anyone using one? Anyway, if your 12 AH battery has a CCA rating of 200 amps, and it can do this for three minutes, it's OK. If you are never going to start the airplane at 0 degrees F., pick the battery accordingly. The ampere-hour capacity is used to calculate how long the battery will last while drawing its normal in-service continuous load after the failure of the alternator. Garth Shearing VariEze and 80% RV6A Victoria BC Canada > Actually, starting could be a problem with a 12 AH battery. > The Sky Tec starter draws 200 amps which gives you about 7.5 minutes of cranking > with a 25 ampere hour battery. With a 12 AH battery you'll get half that time or > about 3.5 minutes which should be fine if the battery is new, the weather is > warm and the engine starts easily, but even here in southern California, those 3 > things seldom happen at the same time. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris Fordham" <consult(at)island.net>
Subject: Dual Lightspeed
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Hi John On the lightspeed web site there is a very simple wiring diagram that connects a 4.5 a/h battery to one of your ignition modules in order to make a completely redundant power supply for the ignition. The diagram includes a diode in order to keep the small battery charged and a spdt switch in order to connect aux. battery in case of your main battery failure. This is how I am wiring in the dual lightspeeds in my RV-4. Chris F ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: fiberglass prep
Date: Nov 18, 2002
When the time comes, I plan on having an experienced shop paint my plane. That said, should I do any prep work on the fiberglass parts prior to this? If so, what is the best way to approach this? More importantly, is there anything I should NOT do in order to avoid possible rework by a paint shop that may have other ideas on prepping? --- Rick Galati --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP!
You might get some ideas from http://www.vansairforce.org/projects/mchenryt/tips/ or http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/tips/tip_rivet_tight_places.shtml Tedd McHenry Van's Air Force Western Canada Wing tedd(at)vansairforce.org www.vansairforce.org ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP!
My solution - 1. drill skins to end rib per usual and dimple as many rivet hole as possible 2. remove end rib 3. bend flange at narrow end of rib to something less than 90 degs to allow access with your usual dimpling tool 4. rebend flanges to 90 degs 5. dimple the skin separately 6. reassemble and rivet Obviously this must be done with reasonable care to avoid work hardening the metal or deforming the rib but is a quick and easy way to get that last dimple in. Does it weaken the rib ? Perhaps but the amount of "stress" at this location in the finished control surface is very low and there are lots of other things to worry about instead. Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB RV-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "JCTV" <jctv(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP! > > I need some help from someone who's "been there, done > that". I am working on the replacement rudder,(RV-9 > style), for my RV7, and Itiringring to dimple the top > tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how to get > to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back end. > > I was able to get most of the holes dimpled using a > combinationdifferentrsqueezereser yokes and the pop > rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the last two > holes are so tight I can not get anything to work. > > What am I missing? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jeff Cook > RV-7A, Rudder > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Metric Conversion
You can find any conversion factors you need here http://members.aol.com/MonT714/convrsns/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robin Wessel" <Robin.Wessel(at)verizon.net>
Subject: HF Powder Coating kit
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Does anyone have any experience with the Harbor Freight Powder Coating gun kit? I addition to Harbor Freight, a few other suppliers sell effectively the same gun and powder for about $100. I have a few parts inside my cabin of my 6A that are getting pretty beat up and would like a more durable coating. I know that I can go to a local shop to have it done but I need an excuse to buy a new tool. Robin Wessel RV-6A Tigard, OR 252 hrs http://robin.getbiz.net/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
I have and am going to use Skybolt fasteners for the fuselage to fiberglass cowling. Skybolts web site is giving "404" errors. Their phone etiquette was never that good, and besides...they are closed for the day. The enclosed literature that came with the bolts, says a support lip should be 1 1/8".But their pictures and descriptions leave a lot to the imagination. Do I need to add a 1/2" (approximate) to put it under the fuselage to firewall lip? In other words, should the support lip be a total of 1 1/2" to 1 5/8" wide? And what material did anyone use for it (.032?). I'd like to order the material tonight. Barry Pote RV9a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Barry, I've done this, and you are right on all counts. The width of the materials should be the width of the firewall flange (1/2 to 5/8), plus the width of the material that you need for your hole/receptacle. Where the hole goes in this material is determined by the distance from the edge of the cowl (fiberglass extending beyond the hole). I seem to remember using .040 for this. You have to counter sink for big rivets. Also, it is very hard to make one piece of AL go around the entire top of the firewall. I did the top of the firewall in 3 pieces (two small pieces on each side, one long piece in the middle) They have a series of pictures on their web site showing installation on an RV-4. You are also right about their phone etiquette. They have a great product, but as a company they suck so bad I can't stand it. I wish we all could use a different vendor. Check the archives for the word "@#$@@@#$" and you will find lots of stuff about SkyBolt. Of the dozens (hundreds?) of vendors used to make my plane, nobody was worse than SkyBolt. jim Tampa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of barry pote Subject: RV-List: cowling camlocks skybolt etc I have and am going to use Skybolt fasteners for the fuselage to fiberglass cowling. Skybolts web site is giving "404" errors. Their phone etiquette was never that good, and besides...they are closed for the day. The enclosed literature that came with the bolts, says a support lip should be 1 1/8".But their pictures and descriptions leave a lot to the imagination. Do I need to add a 1/2" (approximate) to put it under the fuselage to firewall lip? In other words, should the support lip be a total of 1 1/2" to 1 5/8" wide? And what material did anyone use for it (.032?). I'd like to order the material tonight. Barry Pote RV9a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Stuff for sale
From: Michael D Hilger <rvsixer(at)juno.com>
> I have the following "leftovers" for sale from my completed > project: > > 1 ea. Van's adjustable voltage regulator - $20 > 2 ea. Wemac air vents, 2470-05, 1.5" dia - $12 ea > 2 ea. Wemac air vents, B-2150, 1" dia - $12 ea > 1 ea. Hobbs #15000, rectangular quartz hourmeter - $20 > 2 ea. Isspro fuel gauges, #R8690 (no Van's logo) - $15 ea > 1 ea. Koger sunshade kit, RV-6 slider - $100 > > All are new in the box and I will ship. Please contact me > off-list > if interested. > > Listers, All except the fuel gauges and voltage regulator have been sold. Thanks for all the replies. Mike HIlger RV-6 N207AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Oil cooler for sale
From: Michael D Hilger <rvsixer(at)juno.com>
> > I have a Niagara 7-row oil cooler from Van's for sale. Listers, The oil cooler is sold. Mike HIlger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Fw: Teak Stick Grip Attachment
Date: Nov 18, 2002
List, I didn't get a reply on this question and the archives were dry? Anyone used these grips? ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin Subject: Teak Stick Grip Attachment List, I have a set of Teak Stick Grips that are to be installed in my RV6-A. Before reinventing the wheel I was wondering how people have attached the grips to the stick? Drill and tape using a counter sunk Allen Head? Any neat ideas out there on a Website I might have missed? Thanks, Tom in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Vans Air Filter Assembly
Date: Nov 18, 2002
List, Fitted the Air Filter Base to the carb (RV-6-A 0-360-A1A) in preparation to mount the cowling and have a concern. The instructions call for cutting the base plate to allow the drain bolt at the rear of the carb to protrude through the plate. No problem with the modification but I am really concerned about the use of RTV (per the instructions) to fill the left over void. Won't the RTV eventually get sucked into the engine? I have used High-Temp RTV on many automotive applications for gaskets, but not filling voids that must withstand high air pressure loads?? Anybody used a fiberglass patch on the base plate and mold release on the carb? I don't have a "Warm Fuzzy" with Vans approach on this one. Tom in Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Skybolt's site
Netscape 4.7 will not open www.skybolt.com. Must use Microsoft explorer. Barry Pote RV9a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list
Subject: Lighting Instruments
I was wondering what the thoughts are on alternatives to internally lit instruments were. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: Lighting Instruments
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Try the UMA light bezels. Same cost as posts, and looks absolutely fantastic. Cheaper than internally lit lights. jim Tampa -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Chris Woodhouse Subject: RV-List: Lighting Instruments I was wondering what the thoughts are on alternatives to internally lit instruments were. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Lighting Instruments
Date: Nov 18, 2002
http://www.matronics.com/searching/ws_script.cgi, and search for backlighting in the RV list. 31 messages there. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > I was wondering what the thoughts are on alternatives to > internally lit instruments were. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Vans Air Filter Assembly
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Pro seal it. RTV will quickly disintegrate there. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > Won't the RTV eventually get sucked into the > engine? I have used High-Temp RTV on many automotive > applications for gaskets, but not filling voids that must > withstand high air pressure loads?? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Skybolt's site
barry pote wrote: > > Netscape 4.7 will not open www.skybolt.com. > Must use Microsoft explorer. > > Barry Pote RV9a > Netscape 7.0 works ok. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Subject: Re: Vans Air Filter Assembly
From: Michael D Hilger <rvsixer(at)juno.com>
> Won't the RTV eventually get sucked into the engine? Tom, Just carefully file the plate for a very close fit and, after the plate is mated to the carb, apply some red hi-temp RTV around the drain boss on the OUTSIDE. If it comes loose, it can't get sucked into the carb. Mike Hilger RV-6 N207AM 320 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Teak Stick Grip Attachment
Date: Nov 18, 2002
> > List, > I didn't get a reply on this question and the archives were dry? Anyone used these grips? > ----- Original Message ----- Not me, so I didn't answer. A friend made my grips out of cherry. I first tried a fancy set screw inside a threaded insert. It didn't hold up so I ended up with a plain ole #8 countersunk style screw into threads I cut into the stick, on the forward side so nobody sees them. With the screws and countersunk style washers it holds up fine. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Teak Stick Grip Attachment
Tom & Cathy, I used some RTV on the grips, so that I could remove them later, if necessary. I also used a single #6 screw, countersunk into the forward surface of each grip. I may have used locktite when final fitting the #6 screw into the drilled & tapped hole in the control stick. I also shortened the control sticks to allow for the additional height of the teak grips. I'm very happy with the way it all turned out Regards, Chris Good, West Bend, WI RV-6A N86CG, 475 hrs. http://rv.supermatrix.com -- On Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:30:19 Tom & Cathy Ervin wrote: > >List, > I didn't get a reply on this question and the archives were dry? Anyone used these grips? >----- Original Message ----- >From: Tom & Cathy Ervin >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Teak Stick Grip Attachment > > > List, > I have a set of Teak Stick Grips that are to be installed in my RV6-A. Before reinventing the wheel I was wondering how people have attached the grips to the stick? > Drill and tape using a counter sunk Allen Head? Any neat ideas out there on a Website I might have missed? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: Lighting Instruments
Date: Nov 18, 2002
I was wondering what the thoughts are on alternatives to internally lit instruments were. -- Hi Chris I have two of Vans Eyeball Lights side by side on the left side of my 6A and one on the right side. They are mounted on the forward sides at the base of roll bar (slider canopy). Left & right sides are on different rheostats as I have Vans internally lighted engine instruments on right side. I recommend two eyeball lights for good flight instrument coverag. Night lighting of the instrument panel is good, equivalent or maybe better than some of the Cessna's and Pipers that I have flown. George McNutt Langley, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Lighting Instruments
Date: Nov 18, 2002
UMA bezels rule. They are awesome. You can see them on my website. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Woodhouse" <chrisw3(at)cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Lighting Instruments > > I was wondering what the thoughts are on alternatives to internally lit > instruments were. > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 (home) > chrisw(at)programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Instr. Template?
Date: Nov 19, 2002
What's the consensous on drilling the screw holes for each instrument in the panel? Invest in an official template or use the holes in each instrument as a guide? - Larry Bowen RV-8 panel carving... Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "flamini2" <flamini2(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Navy RV-6A
Date: Nov 19, 2002
i made a Navy related trip to Fort Worth today and while watching F-16's and F-18's doing high speed breaks over NFW i happened to spy a yellow RV-6A parked in the corner of the flight line. Brought a smile to my face as i thought about an F-18 pilot doing a 450kt upwind and slowing to 140 kts in a 7G turn on the downwind with the speed brake out and a tight turn to base and final with a "carrier" landing to be repeated over and over all the while he is thinking "i can't wait to go flying in my RV" Anyone know who he is? Dennis and Fran in Chicago ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Instr. Template?
Date: Nov 18, 2002
Hi Larry, Being at the panel stage in building your own aircraft you most likely have developed the skill and a steady enough hand needed to make your own "official" template. A 3-1/8" X 1/8" thick disk centered and riveted or machine screwed to a square plate of the same material, dimensioned such that four holes in the corners can be match drilled to the instrument /s in question. A drill press and a flycutter with the cutter set to cut a clean edge inside will mak the disk. Drop the disk in the hole orient the square for proper hole alignment and drill. If have a hole in the center of the template to facilitate a clamp or two the unit will not slip that little bit that might otherwise ruin your day. Made of mild steel it will not last as good as the "official" hardened steel unit. It should however retain the accuracy you built into it, long enough to do your first and most likely your third RV. You do plan to build more of these beauties, don't you?! Of course you will likely put more time into making this thing than you expect, but by now that should not bother a seasoned RV builder too much. You can be a tool and die maker, well, sort of :) Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> Subject: RV-List: Instr. Template? > > What's the consensous on drilling the screw holes for each instrument in > the panel? Invest in an official template or use the holes in each > instrument as a guide? > > - > Larry Bowen > RV-8 panel carving... > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Instr. Template?
Larry; I made my own template out of a scrap of .040 or so 4130 (could have been 2024, of course). Draw an X with the legs at 90 degs, then two concentric circles at 1 5/16" and 1 3/4". Drill #40 where all the lines cross - nine holes in total. (The Aircraft Spruce and Spec catalog has a diagram if you need more layout info.) Lay out your panel marking where the center of each instrument face will lie. Drill #30 at these locations. Cleco the template in place at the center hole, make sure everything is square, then drill the four holes at the small or large circle as needed. Then set you fly cutter as reqd and cut the instrument cut-out using the center hole as a guide. Do a few test holes in scrap first to make sure your layout is accurate before you start on your actual panel. :-) Jim Oke RV-6A Winnipeg, MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowenaero.com> Subject: RV-List: Instr. Template? > > What's the consensous on drilling the screw holes for each instrument in > the panel? Invest in an official template or use the holes in each > instrument as a guide? > > - > Larry Bowen > RV-8 panel carving... > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year?
Dear Listers, I got to thinking today that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot* receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the Archive Search times. Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion, is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header data and all the other header garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread. I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of messages online for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous v*ruses. I am currently working on the additional ability to post and/or reply directly from the List Browse interface. More on this upcoming feature in the next week or so. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into over 40 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 9,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards well over 50,000,000 (yes, that 50 MILLION) email messages to subscribers each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free. I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! Thank you, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator ------------------------------------------ The SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution ------------------------------------------ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Lighting Instruments
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Chris, We installed Van's eyeball LEDs in each side in the roll bar. They do a great job of flooding the panel with light but you will need a dimmer. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: vansairforce , RV-list > >Subject: RV-List: Lighting Instruments >Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2002 20:30:22 -0600 > > >I was wondering what the thoughts are on alternatives to internally lit >instruments were. > >-- >Chris Woodhouse >3147 SW 127th St. >Oklahoma City, OK 73170 >405-691-5206 (home) >chrisw(at)programmer.net >N35 20.492' >W97 34.342' > > Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: Re: Tight Space Dimpling - HELP!
Another option is to cut the head off a nail you use for your pop rivet set, stick it through the dies and skin, then grab the headless end of the nail with a pair of diagonal cutters- then apply pop rivet tool as usual. There's a fine line between holding the nail tightly enough and cutting through it, but I did many of the tight spots this way with good results. Then use the properly smoothed end of a splitting wedge as a bucking bar and your Avery swivel set to set the rivet. From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips > > I need some help from someone who's "been there, done > > that". I am working on the replacement rudder,(RV-9 > > style), for my RV7, and Itiringring to dimple the top > > tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how to get > > to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back end. > > > > I was able to get most of the holes dimpled using a > > combinationdifferentrsqueezereser yokes and the pop > > rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the last two > > holes are so tight I can not get anything to work. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Metric Conversion
> Thanks to so many people who provided the number needed on the ALT to join > the Kilometer High Club, eh? Why set your sights so low? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Instr. Template?
Larry, For $15 Bob Avery will rent you both a punch that will cut both common size holes and a template to locate the screw holes. That is the way I cut all my instrument holes. Very convenient! Regards, Richard Dudley -6A FWF Larry Bowen wrote: > > > What's the consensous on drilling the screw holes for each instrument in > the panel? Invest in an official template or use the holes in each > instrument as a guide? > > - > Larry Bowen > RV-8 panel carving... > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Will Cretsinger <cretsinger(at)ticnet.com>
Subject: Terra Repair
Since Terra avionics equipment is now an orphan, it is good to know that a reliable repair source is available. Free Flight Systems, 3700 IH35, Waco, Texas 76706, acquired the spare parts and manuals from Trimble when the Terra line was discontinued. I have been happy with their service and turnaround time. Place "ATTN: Repair" on the label. Items can be sent for repair estimate and you pay shipping charges only. Phone 800-487-4662. Will Cretsinger, Arlington, Texas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)attcanada.ca>
Subject: Dimple in tight places
Date: Nov 19, 2002
I need some help from someone who's "been there, done that". I am working on the replacement rudder,(RV-9 style), for my RV7, and Itiringring to dimple the top tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how to get to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back end. I was able to get most of the holes dimpled using a combinationdifferentrsqueezereser yokes and the pop rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the last two holes are so tight I can not get anything to work. What am I missing? Thanks in advance, Jeff Cook RV-7A, Rudder I modified a small(2") c-clamp to dimple in tight places Cut the nail of your pop rivet dimple dies,so that it just passes through the two dies Drill a shallow hole in the end of the screw part of the c-clamp,to accept the nail head. It may be neccessary to file down the arm of the c-clamp for real tight places. Place the pop dimple dies in the hole and use the modified c-clamp to squeeze them. GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman(at)attcanada.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Dimple in tight places
Date: Nov 19, 2002
For some places you can modify the dimple die to get into small places by grinding off an edge. In a couple of other areas (in thin material) I remember just squeezing in the die by hand without a holder and pushing like hell. Sometimes you got to just do what you gotta do. Andy > > I need some help from someone who's "been there, done > that". I am working on the replacement rudder,(RV-9 > style), for my RV7, and Itiringring to dimple the top > tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how to get > to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back end. > > I was able to get most of the holes dimpled using a > combinationdifferentrsqueezereser yokes and the pop > rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the last two > holes are so tight I can not get anything to work. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Instr. Template?
Thanks, Jim. I'll try it! --- Jim Oke wrote: > > Larry; > > I made my own template out of a scrap of .040 or so 4130 (could have been > 2024, of course). > > Draw an X with the legs at 90 degs, then two concentric circles at 1 5/16" > and 1 3/4". Drill #40 where all the lines cross - nine holes in total. (The > Aircraft Spruce and Spec catalog has a diagram if you need more layout > info.) > > Lay out your panel marking where the center of each instrument face will > lie. Drill #30 at these locations. Cleco the template in place at the center > hole, make sure everything is square, then drill the four holes at the small > or large circle as needed. > > Then set you fly cutter as reqd and cut the instrument cut-out using the > center hole as a guide. > > Do a few test holes in scrap first to make sure your layout is accurate > before you start on your actual panel. :-) > > Jim Oke > RV-6A > Winnipeg, MB > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bowen" <larry(at)bowenaero.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Instr. Template? > > > > > > What's the consensous on drilling the screw holes for each instrument in > > the panel? Invest in an official template or use the holes in each > > instrument as a guide? > > > > - > > Larry Bowen > > RV-8 panel carving... > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > > http://BowenAero.com > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: JCTV <jctv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Tight Space Dimpling - THANKS!
Thanks to everyone who had great advice for me. I ended up filing down an old C-clamp and countersinking the tip with my right angle drill. I then used the standard male dimple on the other side and tighten it down with the clamp. The one line I keep telling myself over and over is "Skill does not build planes, Perseverance does!". Thanks again and on to the next challenge... Jeff Cook RV-7A - Rudder --- JCTV wrote: > > I need some help from someone who's "been there, > done > that". I am working on the replacement rudder,(RV-9 > style), and I'm trying to dimple the > top > tip rib,(R-903), but I can not figure out how to get > to last two holes dimpled on the tapered back end. > > I was able to get most of the holes dimpled using a combination different squeezers yokes and the pop > rivet dimpler set from Avery tools. But the last two > holes are so tight I can not get anything to work. > > What am I missing? > > Thanks in advance, > > Jeff Cook > RV-7A, Rudder > > > > Month -- > Gifts!) > Click on the Contribution > Terrific Free Gifts! > Dralle, List Admin. > _-> > Contributions of > any other form > > latest messages. > other List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/search > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca>
Subject: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
Date: Nov 19, 2002
> You are also right about their phone etiquette. They have a great > product, > but as a company they suck so bad I can't stand it. I wish we all could > use > a different vendor. Check the archives for the word "@#$@@@#$" and you > will > find lots of stuff about SkyBolt. Of the dozens (hundreds?) of vendors > used > to make my plane, nobody was worse than SkyBolt. > > jim > Tampa > Hi Jim; Thanks for the heads up on this company. I was going to order a set for the upper cowl to fuse, but I already have the hinge installed and it's really not that bad to install the pins. If a better vendor comes up, I will change to a camloc, but I refuse to do business with companies that have bad CS. I appreciate reports on this list of vendor CS -- good & bad. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B rotary powered RX-9endurance (FWF) C-FSTB (reserved) http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm RE: RV-List: cowling camlocks skybolt etc You are also right about their phone etiquette. They have a great product, but as a company they suck so bad I can't stand it. I wish we all could use a different vendor. Check the archives for the word @#$@@@#$ and you will find lots of stuff about SkyBolt. Of the dozens (hundreds?) of vendors used to make my plane, nobody was worse than SkyBolt. jim Tampa Hi Jim; Thanks for the heads up on this company. I was going to order a set for the upper cowl to fuse, but I already have the hinge installed and it's really not that bad to install the pins. If a better vendor comes up, I will change to a camloc, but I refuse to do business with companies that have bad CS. I appreciate reports on this list of vendor CS -- good bad. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B rotary powered RX-9endurance (FWF) C-FSTB (reserved) http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
Date: Nov 19, 2002
ACS sells the real McCoy "Camlock". Their price is lower than buying directly from Skybolt. Skybolt sells their own version of the "Camlock", they do NO sell Camlocks. The top of my cowl is held on with Skybolt's products, but when I needed new washers for them, I bought them from ACS. Long story made short, Skybolt would only sell me a bag of 20, and they used FedEx to send them to me ("we don't use the US Mail for anything". Total cost for 2 washers that I needed: $28. I called ACS, they sent me 2 washers (4 cents each) for free, and put it in an envelope with a stamp. Free. Camlocks are cool... but Skybolt is not the only place to get them (or a look-alike). jim -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bartrim, Todd Subject: RE: RV-List: cowling camlocks skybolt etc > You are also right about their phone etiquette. They have a great > product, > but as a company they suck so bad I can't stand it. I wish we all could > use > a different vendor. Check the archives for the word "@#$@@@#$" and you > will > find lots of stuff about SkyBolt. Of the dozens (hundreds?) of vendors > used > to make my plane, nobody was worse than SkyBolt. > > jim > Tampa > Hi Jim; Thanks for the heads up on this company. I was going to order a set for the upper cowl to fuse, but I already have the hinge installed and it's really not that bad to install the pins. If a better vendor comes up, I will change to a camloc, but I refuse to do business with companies that have bad CS. I appreciate reports on this list of vendor CS -- good & bad. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B rotary powered RX-9endurance (FWF) C-FSTB (reserved)
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm RE: RV-List: cowling camlocks skybolt etc You are also right about their phone etiquette. They have a great product, but as a company they suck so bad I can't stand it. I wish we all could use a different vendor. Check the archives for the word @#$@@@#$ and you will find lots of stuff about SkyBolt. Of the dozens (hundreds?) of vendors used to make my plane, nobody was worse than SkyBolt. jim Tampa Hi Jim; Thanks for the heads up on this company. I was going to order a set for the upper cowl to fuse, but I already have the hinge installed and it's really not that bad to install the pins. If a better vendor comes up, I will change to a camloc, but I refuse to do business with companies that have bad CS. I appreciate reports on this list of vendor CS -- good bad. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B rotary powered RX-9endurance (FWF) C-FSTB (reserved) http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com>
I have a question for you guys out there that have installed the adjustable Skybolt camlocs and have been flying with them for a while. I'm struggling with the notion of buying the expensive adjustable camloc kit when you could measure the thickness of your cowling with a digital caliper and order the non-adjustable stainless camloc receptacles much cheaper through another source. I wouldn't think there would be much need to adjust them after they've been in service a while, but I could be wrong. Bob Japundza RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying F1 QB under const. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: OKC Visit
Date: Nov 19, 2002
I am visiting Oklahoma City this week and would love to visit with any builder's in the area during the evening hours. Mike Robertson Das Fed RV-8A, 6A, 9A builder STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RE: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Bob, I have not found the need to re-adjust them at all. When you set them up originally you want to set them tight enough to be able to just rotate the stud over the cam against the spring pressure. So there is some room for loosening up. To your point, you could do the same thing with shims that the adjustable feature provides on the Skybolts. They are nice, machined out of solid aluminum, but are they worth the price/aggravation? Dunno. So far I like them though. Pat Hatch RV-4, N17PH, 700 hrs O-320, Hartzell C/S RV-6, N44PH, 40 hrs O-360, Hartzell C/S Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> Subject: RV-List: RE: cowling camlocks skybolt etc > > I have a question for you guys out there that have installed the adjustable Skybolt camlocs and have been flying with them for a while. I'm struggling with the notion of buying the expensive adjustable camloc kit when you could measure the thickness of your cowling with a digital caliper and order the non-adjustable stainless camloc receptacles much cheaper through another source. I wouldn't think there would be much need to adjust them after they've been in service a while, but I could be wrong. > > Bob Japundza > RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying > F1 QB under const. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGray67968(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: cowling camlocks skybolt etc
In a message dated 11/19/02 11:21:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com writes: Bob, I went with the Camlocks from Spruce and am VERY happy with them. I used #6's across the top of the cowl on my 6. This took into account an .060 strip that my receptacles go into. You can order standard or flush.YMMV Here's a picture where you can see a few of them. N856RG BTW, make sure you put them farther down on the sides than the hinges were. This will keep the sides nice and tight. Rick Gray RV6 (Ohio) at the Buffalo Farm - Camlocks looking good after 110 hours > I have a question for you guys out there that have installed the adjustable > Skybolt camlocs and have been flying with them for a while. I'm struggling > with the notion of buying the expensive adjustable camloc kit when you > could measure the thickness of your cowling with a digital caliper and > order the non-adjustable stainless camloc receptacles much cheaper through > another source. I wouldn't think there would be much need to adjust them > after they've been in service a while, but I could be wrong. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Karpinski" <karpinski(at)baldcom.net>
Subject: Delivery Problems with Falcon Electric Gyro's
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Hi all.. Ordered Non-TSO electric DG and AG back on 9-17-02... With a 3-4 week delivery.. Still nothing... Anyone else see delivery problems with Falcon Electric gyro's?? Options.. ?? No archive _________________________ Al Karpinski RV8 50% ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Canopy Release Tip-up
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Steve.....check the archives. We just discussed this a few weeks ago, and I posted pictures of how I modified the canopy release mechanism. The mod revoved the release arm from the panel, and put it underneath where wandering passenger fingers won't find it. Very simple to do. You could still release it in flight, but the consensus is you likely don't want to. Van's people tell me it is unlikely it would come off, and if it did, it would take your face with it.. You do want to be able to remove it on the ground, though, for even better access behind the panel, repairs, repainting, etc. If you can't find the pictures and discussion in the archives, let me know, and I'll help you. Gary From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net Subject: RV-List: Canopy Release Tip-up Ref Tip up canopy RV7A After spending the better part of the day (cutting steel is fun!) making the canopy release I started to wonder if anybody omitted this part. It seems to work fine, and its pretty robust, but is it required? Has anybody just used AN4-x bolts with cotter pins to hold the tip up on? I do like the idea of being able to eject the canopy, but I just had a thought. I did have to modify the F-643-1 support rib as well as trim a bit of the F687 (part #?) to get the proper fit. Of course if the part was omitted one would have some kind of canopy shattering tool close by. Any comments? Anybody actually used it? How well does it work? Steve Hurlbut RV7A --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2002
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Teak Stick Grip Attachment
>> List, I didn't get a reply on this question and the archives were dry? >> Anyone used these grips? ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy >> Ervin To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Teak Stick Grip Attachment >> >> >> List, I have a set of Teak Stick Grips that are to be installed in my >> RV6-A. Before reinventing the wheel I was wondering how people have >> attached the grips to the stick? Drill and tape using a counter sunk Allen >> Head? Any neat ideas out there on a Website I might have missed? >> Are you familiar with T-nuts? They are used for machine screws in wood. Sloppy description follows: Internally threaded barrel attached to a washer. The washer has 'spikes' around the edge that are parallel to the threaded barrel. The barrel is inserted into a predrilled hole in the wood & the spikes are pushed into the solid wood around the hole. If you insert the T-nut from inside the stick, you could use an allen head set screw with little risk of sripping the wood. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 18, 2002
From: rv8driver <rv8tor(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: pneumatic rivet squeezers
I picked up one on eBay (a CP model) for $275. I had to be patient because they usually get bid up to 350 or 400 sometimes. But I just happened to be the only one to bid on this one and got it "cheap". Got it from a guy that sells aircraft tools a lot on eBay. I've bought from him before. Very reputable. I believe his eBay ID is acfttools. Cheers, Kevin >-->RV-List message posted by: "MARSHALL,STEPHANIE (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" > >Hi all, >What is the general consensus of pneumatic rivet squeezers? > >Thanks >Stephanie >in Or'gun > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: website update
Date: Nov 19, 2002
For those of you who are *still* building an RV-6A (like me) or the morbidly curious , I have the latest photos up now. This is a first for me - website updated before the promised date. Basically it's the beginning of the fuselage construction - jig, firewall, F604 and F605 plus jigging the first couple of bulkheads. Website is http:\www.flion.com for those who haven't bookmarked it. By the way, Matt, your link to my site is incorrect. Patrick Kelley - RV-6A slooooow build :-) - Working on forward structure ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: website update
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Sorry, the url is www.flion.com <
http://www.flion.com/> ; I mistyped the http:// in front of it because I hardly ever use that anymore, anyway. For those of you still using low screen resolutions, you might not see the link to the right because the frame collapses in some browsers. If so, try www.flion.com/rv6a/Default.htm to get right to the page. Patrick Kelley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: KAKlewin(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Subject: Re: OKC Visit
Mike, Love to chat with ya if our schedules permit.... Kurt Klewin, RV6A, Finishing... OKC, OK 405-670-6240 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Petty" <ppetty@c-gate.net>
Subject: Fw: Thanksgiving Weekend
Date: Nov 19, 2002
----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Petty Subject: Thanksgiving Weekend Hello Kolbers, We plan to be in the Jacksonville FL. area over the Thanksgiving holidays and are looking to find some activity in the area. We will not have our aircraft, but will have ground transportation. We will be staying at Hanna RV resort park. Would love to hook up with any Kolb flyers/builders as well as any Vans RV builders/flyers. Thanks Paul & Charley Cessna 4958p ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Composites - Glasair Finishing Time
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Wow, I'm astounded he only took 80 hours to do all that. It's taken me 200+ hours to wash, alodine, prime and topcoat my RV. So far. I'm STILL filling and sanding wingtips and fairings. And I won't be taking home any awards. Curt RV-6 soon to be moving to the assembly hangar. > The total cost was about $2,000 in > > materials and about 80 hours of work. Then I took home a trophy from > Oshkosh. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N8292W(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Subject: N223RV First Flight!
This is kinda old news now, but I flew my RV-4 for the first time October 30th from Willow Run Airport in Michigan. Plane came in at 1030 lbs unpainted, but is full IFR, including vacuum system. The plane flew excellent with no major issues and minimal trimming necessary. I only have 6.5 hours to date (crappy Michigan weather!) It took 3 years and 8 months (including a move from Atlanta to Michigan and getting married with a honeymoon at Sun-N-Fun this year!) and just over 1700 hours. I still have a bit of fiberglass work to do, and then paint. Specs: -0320-E2D modified to 160 hp -Sensenich fixed pitch prop -climbs out at 100 mph and 2000 fpm sustained -KX155 radio with VOR and G/S -Standard T panel with all 6 gauges -UMA 1.25" engine gages (nice and small for my tiny panel) -center stack built over battery compartment to hold the radio, panel mounted Garmin 295, transponder (KT-76A) and Van's fuel gauges. A special thanks to all at Van's, everyone on the list who helped me (both directly and indirectly), and to Russ Werner who provided me with all kinds of incite and was always there to bounce ideas off of! I know y'all have heard it over and over, but keep workin' on that plane, it is worth every second of the time spent! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N8292W(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Subject: Cold Weather Fiberglassing
I have some fiberglass work to finish up on my plane, but the weather is getting pretty cold up here in Michigan. Does anyone know how low of a temperature I should (or should not) fiberglass at? What are the ramifications of fiberglassing at cold temperatures? I did some glass work tonight and put a small heater on a timer pointing at the fiberglass and resin, but was wondering what others have done or what people know about glassing at cold temperatures. Thanks for any help you can provide! -Mike Kraus N223RV - finally flying!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Cold Weather Fiberglassing
Date: Nov 19, 2002
Well, the coldest it probably got here was around 30 at night, so that's all I have to base it off of. I have the West Systems slow cure epoxy. It would take all night to cure. Perhaps if you got the fast cure stuff, the colder temperatures would make it a slower cure, and you would have time to work with it. Be careful with heat. Too much heat in the wrong areas could cause the fiberglass to cure unevenly when it sets in other areas. Make sure if you are doing heating that it is general area heating rather than a focused heat. But, to answer your question, I would think you could glass in any temperature, you just have to wait longer until it cures enough to cut and sand. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <N8292W(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Cold Weather Fiberglassing > > I have some fiberglass work to finish up on my plane, but the weather is > getting pretty cold up here in Michigan. > > Does anyone know how low of a temperature I should (or should not) fiberglass > at? What are the ramifications of fiberglassing at cold temperatures? I did > some glass work tonight and put a small heater on a timer pointing at the > fiberglass and resin, but was wondering what others have done or what people > know about glassing at cold temperatures. > > Thanks for any help you can provide! > -Mike Kraus > N223RV - finally flying!! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)wmca.net>
Subject: Flap Actuator Weldments
Date: Nov 19, 2002
A batch of flap actuator weldments was shipped by Van's that had the powder coat free area (where the bushing block goes) on the wrong side of the center arm. I talked to Van's today and they said either put the block support on the right side of the vertical post, or, just put the block where the plans call out (on the left side of the vertical post) (which means the powder coat is lying on the bushing block) and paint over the spot where they masked off the powder coat... I was hoping for a new one, but they are not offering... Make sure you look closely at the plans to see how the angles of the arms at each end of the weldment lie relative to the center arm, because you can't rely on the position of the masked off portion to show you how to install the weldment... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com>
Subject:
Date: Nov 19, 2002
test ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com>
Subject: Builders in Waco Texas
Date: Nov 19, 2002
I have built a 6A in the past and now building an 8A. Are there any builders in the Greater Waco Metroplex? I am from Shreveport and will be in Waco Thursday Nov 21 thru saturday or sunday and would like to visit some projects or flying planes. E-Mail me or call me please! My cell # is 318-208-3111 Thanks in advance! Jerry Doyal jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Actuator Weldments
Date: Nov 19, 2002
> A batch of flap actuator weldments was shipped by Van's that > had the powder coat free area (where the bushing block goes) > on the wrong side of the center arm. Well in MY day we had to paint our OWN damn weldments...! Okay, yeah, I know that's not very helpful.... :-) Seriously though I'd recommend you either add a thin washer between the bearing blocks, or sand the powder coat off in that area, since otherwise the paint thickness will make it too tight and stiff. How do I know? I painted mine and didn't mask where the bearing block goes either (I fixed it with the thin washer method). Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~450 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: Terra Repair
Date: Nov 19, 2002
(Delete now if you don't have/don't care about Terra Radios) > Since Terra avionics equipment is now an orphan, it is good to know that > know that a reliable repair source is available. [snip] This reminds me of something that happened with my Terra NAV. I'd had it for a while problem-free, but then it started doing this annoying thing -- it would occasionally just up and blow its fuse. I was about ready to ship it to Free Flight but decided to take the cover off and have a look first. I noticed a piece of yellow electrical tape on the side housing right next to where a voltage regulator (a little black part about 5/8" square with a metal tab sticking up from it) was mounted close to the side housing. The only reason for the tape seemed to be to insulate the regulator from shorting on the housing. However there was no such tape on the top piece, just the side, and the regulator was shorting on the top of the housing. Put some electrical tape there and the problem went away. Maybe if anyone else ever has a similar problem this will help save some $$ and hassle. Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~450 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Flap Actuator Weldments
Date: Nov 20, 2002
> > A batch of flap actuator weldments was shipped by Van's that > > had the powder coat free area (where the bushing block goes) > > on the wrong side of the center arm. > The RV-9A I'm working on had the same problem. I'm just wondering how long this has been going one and if it's been corrected. These things can be slow about being corrected at Van's. Been there and done that sort of thing. > Well in MY day we had to paint our OWN damn weldments...! Okay, yeah, I > know that's not very helpful.... :-) Actually, I've found places on the -9A that I'd just as soon that they hadn't powder coated the parts. It looks nice; but, it can chip very easily. >Seriously though I'd recommend you either > add a thin washer between the bearing blocks, or sand the powder coat off in > that area, since otherwise the paint thickness will make it too tight and > stiff. How do I know? I painted mine and didn't mask where the bearing block > goes either (I fixed it with the thin washer method). > One almost has to have some kind of spacer, be it a washer or manufactured one, so that there is enough space after cutting them that you can tighten down without grabbing the tubing too hard. It's a bushing, not a clamp. I had to put spacers in mine when there was no paint in those areas. Yeah, no powder coating, either. :-) The cut I made took some of the UHMW material away; so, a spacer was needed. You need the same thing at the rudder pedals. On the -9A, I didn't take the powder coating off of the tubing at either location. I felt the stuff would be there for years to come. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 11/19/02
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Can someone please put me out of my misery and post a picture of a modified squeezer yoke or some other method that works for riveting on the hinge to the elevator trim tab? I modified a pair of pliers to try and squeeze some of the rivets that I couldn't get to with my TATCO hand squeezer with no luck (i'd need to be Popeye to do an adequate job). This is not a place where I can see using something like use an ax blade or tapered bucking bar. Thanks in advance! Lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Cold Weather Fiberglassing
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Mike, The West 105 epoxy and 205 hardner has a temperature range of 40 degrees to 90 degrees. If temperature is getting below that, use a heat source to help. I used a halogen 300 watt light and it helped. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC ----- Original Message ----- From: <N8292W(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Cold Weather Fiberglassing > > I have some fiberglass work to finish up on my plane, but the weather is > getting pretty cold up here in Michigan. > > Does anyone know how low of a temperature I should (or should not) fiberglass > at? What are the ramifications of fiberglassing at cold temperatures? I did > some glass work tonight and put a small heater on a timer pointing at the > fiberglass and resin, but was wondering what others have done or what people > know about glassing at cold temperatures. > > Thanks for any help you can provide! > -Mike Kraus > N223RV - finally flying!! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: N223RV First Flight!
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Congratulations, looks like you crammed a lot into 3 years and 8 months, having flown mine for the first time recently, I know how you feel. Congratulations again. Fran Malczynski RV6 - N594EF (13.3 hrs in crappy upstate NY weather since 10/20/02) Olcott, NY -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of N8292W(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: N223RV First Flight! This is kinda old news now, but I flew my RV-4 for the first time October 30th from Willow Run Airport in Michigan. Plane came in at 1030 lbs unpainted, but is full IFR, including vacuum system. The plane flew excellent with no major issues and minimal trimming necessary. I only have 6.5 hours to date (crappy Michigan weather!) It took 3 years and 8 months (including a move from Atlanta to Michigan and getting married with a honeymoon at Sun-N-Fun this year!) and just over 1700 hours. I still have a bit of fiberglass work to do, and then paint. Specs: -0320-E2D modified to 160 hp -Sensenich fixed pitch prop -climbs out at 100 mph and 2000 fpm sustained -KX155 radio with VOR and G/S -Standard T panel with all 6 gauges -UMA 1.25" engine gages (nice and small for my tiny panel) -center stack built over battery compartment to hold the radio, panel mounted Garmin 295, transponder (KT-76A) and Van's fuel gauges. A special thanks to all at Van's, everyone on the list who helped me (both directly and indirectly), and to Russ Werner who provided me with all kinds of incite and was always there to bounce ideas off of! I know y'all have heard it over and over, but keep workin' on that plane, it is worth every second of the time spent! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Michael Stewart <mstewartga(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Team RV is hosting a weekend formation seminar
Hi listers,Team RV is hosting its 1st Annual Formation Seminar January 25-26 2003 in Lawrenceville, GA. It will be a weekend of training, flying, check-rides, and all around fun. The seminars will be for ALL skill levels, from beginner to advanced. The seminar is free, parking is free, and the fun is priceless. We hope you will come join us.Details can be found here:http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/teamrv/formationclinic/index.htmhope to see you there,Mike StewartRV-6A troubleshooting electronic ignition, almost got it. I hope! --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: N223RV First Flight!
Congratulations Mike!!!! Richard Dudley -6A FWF N8292W(at)aol.com wrote: > > > This is kinda old news now, but I flew my RV-4 for the first time October > 30th from Willow Run Airport in Michigan. Plane came in at 1030 lbs > unpainted, but is full IFR, including vacuum system. The plane flew > excellent with no major issues and minimal trimming necessary. I only have > 6.5 hours to date (crappy Michigan weather!) It took 3 years and 8 months > (including a move from Atlanta to Michigan and getting married with a > honeymoon at Sun-N-Fun this year!) and just over 1700 hours. I still have a > bit of fiberglass work to do, and then paint. > Specs: > -0320-E2D modified to 160 hp > -Sensenich fixed pitch prop > -climbs out at 100 mph and 2000 fpm sustained > -KX155 radio with VOR and G/S > -Standard T panel with all 6 gauges > -UMA 1.25" engine gages (nice and small for my tiny panel) > -center stack built over battery compartment to hold the radio, panel mounted > Garmin 295, transponder (KT-76A) and Van's fuel gauges. > > A special thanks to all at Van's, everyone on the list who helped me (both > directly and indirectly), and to Russ Werner who provided me with all kinds > of incite and was always there to bounce ideas off of! > > I know y'all have heard it over and over, but keep workin' on that plane, it > is worth every second of the time spent! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 11/19/02
Date: Nov 20, 2002
As I recall, the key to riveting the trim tab hinge is to separate the hinge halves. Once you pull the pin, there should be no problem reaching all the rivets. My Avery die set came with two flush sets, 1/4" thick and 1/8" thick. With the 1/4" set on the stationary side of the yoke I could clear the hinge eyes with no problem; the other set was in the ram side and clearance on the outside of the tab was no issue. My fear was that the hinge would slightly misalign while riveting, which proved to be unfounded. I'm not sure what model you're building, but I checked the plans for the 7/7A and the arrangement is the same so I expect it would be true of all the models; hope this helps you. Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - working on forward fuselage structure -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lucky Macy Subject: RV-List: RE: RV-List Digest: 42 Msgs - 11/19/02 Can someone please put me out of my misery and post a picture of a modified squeezer yoke or some other method that works for riveting on the hinge to the elevator trim tab? I modified a pair of pliers to try and squeeze some of the rivets that I couldn't get to with my TATCO hand squeezer with no luck (i'd need to be Popeye to do an adequate job). This is not a place where I can see using something like use an ax blade or tapered bucking bar. Thanks in advance! Lucky = Contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dane Sheahen" <dane(at)mutualace.com>
Subject: Comfortable parachutes?
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Hi Tim I just tried two different parachutes for comfort from Strong Parachute Co. Both were uncomfortable for me. They were about as soft as a rock. I have an RV8a with the tall man option for the seat back and it put my knees right under the panel. Try them your self they will send you a parachute for ten days to see if you like it. If you do, then they will make you a custom color one. I am going to try Softie Parachute next. My feeling is what good is it if you don't use it. Dane Sheahen RV8a Flying, No Paint Hi Folks, Does anyone have an opinion (On THIS list? Ha!) on what types of parachutes are most comfortable for full-time use? I would like to set my airplane up for full-time (including long cross-country) parachute use, and would like to get some recommendations on seatpack vs. backpack vs. whatever else there is. I have checked the archives - no luck on this topic. Thanks, Tim Bronson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael D. Crowe" <tripacer(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RE: [rv8list] riveting around hinges
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Lucky, I have always used a Tatco hand squeezer for that job. Different heads have thinner ends where the dies go in. Check with builders in your area to see if one has a thinner head you can borrow. If you are in the Atlanta area I could help you out. Mike Crowe RV8A Tail Done To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com Cc: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: [rv8list] riveting around hinges Can someone please put me out of my misery and post a picture of a modified squeezer yoke or some other method that works for riveting on the hinge to the elevator trim tab? I modified a pair of pliers to try and squeeze some of the rivets that I couldn't get to with my TATCO hand squeezer with no luck (i'd need to be Popeye to do an adequate job). This is not a place where I can see using something like use an ax blade or tapered bucking bar. Thanks in advance! Lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Comfortable parachutes?
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: "Todd Wenzel" <TWenzel@heartland-software.com>
Dane, Please DO let us, or at least me, know how the Softie works for you. I am building an -8A also and would be very interested in your obsevations. I do not have the tall pilot option, but I am 6'1" and find my knees come real close to the bottom of the panel. What are you using for seats with the chutes? Do you remove both the bottom and backs of the seats or what? Thanks! Todd Wenzel Delafield, WI USA RV-8AQB - Finish Kit N900TW - Reserved TWenzel@Heartland-Software.com -----Original Message----- From: Dane Sheahen [mailto:dane(at)mutualace.com] Subject: RE: RV-List: Comfortable parachutes? Hi Tim I just tried two different parachutes for comfort from Strong Parachute Co. Both were uncomfortable for me. They were about as soft as a rock. I have an RV8a with the tall man option for the seat back and it put my knees right under the panel. Try them your self they will send you a parachute for ten days to see if you like it. If you do, then they will make you a custom color one. I am going to try Softie Parachute next. My feeling is what good is it if you don't use it. Dane Sheahen RV8a Flying, No Paint Hi Folks, Does anyone have an opinion (On THIS list? Ha!) on what types of parachutes are most comfortable for full-time use? I would like to set my airplane up for full-time (including long cross-country) parachute use, and would like to get some recommendations on seatpack vs. backpack vs. whatever else there is. I have checked the archives - no luck on this topic. Thanks, Tim Bronson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: Flap Actuator weldments
Date: Nov 20, 2002
There is really no need to do this. A bunch of the RV-9 flap arms came with the bare spot on the "wrong" side. It is no problem at all to just install the bearing block on the side that is masked off. Fits fine. Gary ] ____________________________________ From: "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap Actuator Weldments > A batch of flap actuator weldments was shipped by Van's that > had the powder coat free area (where the bushing block goes) > on the wrong side of the center arm. Well in MY day we had to paint our OWN damn weldments...! Okay, yeah, I know that's not very helpful.... :-) Seriously though I'd recommend you either add a thin washer between the bearing blocks, or sand the powder coat off in that area, since otherwise the paint thickness will make it too tight and stiff. How do I know? I painted mine and didn't mask where the bearing block goes either (I fixed it with the thin washer method). Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~450 hrs) Portland, OR www.vanshomewing.org --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: RV6a For Sale
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
"RV-List Digest (E-mail)" , "EAA 21 (E-mail)" , "Ric Merriwether (E-mail)" Subject: RV6a For Sale All - A friend and RV pilot called me last night with sad news that he is selling his RV6a. He is asking $45,000 for it, which is a steal!!!!! I've flown this plane, and it flies great. Some of the vital statistics: RV-6a with slider canopy; approx 200 hours; licensed '96 Lycoming O-320B3B (160hp), 900 SMOH, chrome cylinders all cylinders checked in mid/upper 70's at last annual. Sensenich metal prop Phlogiston spar Navaid autopilot Apollo Flybuddy GPS Terra Nav-com with glideslope Xponder with encoder Intercom Audio panel with 3 lite marker beacon Vacuum horizon and DG Manual elevator and aileron trim New main tires; nose tire recent March '02 annual; will supply fresh annual with sale Please call Leonard at 479-649-0761 (Fort Smith, Arkansas) he does not have e-mail. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Comfortable parachutes?
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
> > >Hi Tim > I just tried two different parachutes for comfort from Strong Parachute Co. >Both were uncomfortable for me. They were about as soft as a rock. I have >an RV8a with the tall man option for the seat back and it put my knees right >under the panel. Try them your self they will send you a parachute for ten >days to see if you like it. If you do, then they will make you a custom >color one. > >I am going to try Softie Parachute next. My feeling is what good is it if >you don't use it. > I have a back pack Softie with foam that I use primarily for soaring. I have used it for up to 6.5 hours straight and don't even notice I have it on. It has a sort of cut-out area for the spine. I have used it in my RV-6 and it is fine, but puts me a little further forward than I like, for that airplane. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: To cerminil or not to cerminil
Date: Nov 20, 2002
that is the question. actually I have answered it but I thought I'd post my thoughts on the subject. When I built up this engine, 0-360 I had a set of chrome cylinders that I didn't know the age of but they were just in service limits so I figured I could get another 500 hours out of them. Well this has worked for 1 and 3 as I now have 300 hours on them, and the pisser is they are still at 79.5/80, but 2 and 4 are going south. I'm getting 50/80 on 2 and 62/80 on 4 at TDC. Its interesting to plot because if I move the piston about 3/4" down they both are in the mid 60s to 70s but as it moves up the ring gap opens due to taper and phooosh. It seems to make sense to just do all 4 now rather then waiting another 200 hours for the right side. I have also noticed for sometime that when pulling to blades through each cylinder during preflight those two are definately weaker. Although I always do a full power runup on the end of the runway to assure full static RPM and that hasn't decreased, so they are still dynamically sealing. So, after reading everything Superior and ECI has to say about it I decided to go with ECI Steels. I picked ECI because they cost a lot less and they seemed to be doing just as much excellant research and development as the other guys. The question was cerminil or not. I found several "experts" that felt the break in issues along with the reduced ability to hold oil on the walls weren't worth it unless the engine wasn't being flown much. Then the extra corrosion protection was definately needed. The other issue is reworking the cerminils is much more difficult during the next overhaul. Well, I flew 250 hours last year so I went plain steel. The other question was to go 8.5:1, 9:1, or 10:1. It would cost more as the standard pistons are in the kit. The 9:1 0-320h2ad pistons are $42 each and the 10:1 helicopter pistons were a little more. I did not want the 10:1 as there will come a time when fuel and detonation is an issue, the only question is when. The other ones would give a slight increase in power, one that I might be able to notice, but would cost another $170. Seemed like a wash to me considering the engine manufacturer has gone to great lengths to make this a wonderful engine. Why pay money to change it now for something I might not even be able to notice??? I got a good price for the complete kits, with gaskets, less wrist pins and rockers/pushrods of $857 a piece to my front door from Premium in Arkansas. It seems ECI sells then in quanity for much less than they will sell direct, which is OK by them; they don't care who you buy it from as they sell it either way. W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: Re: Composites
Date: Nov 20, 2002
You would have really felt bad though if Kent Paser blew past both of you with his O-320 powered Mustang II, burning only 12 gph wide open... From reading through Kent's book, it looks like there's a lot of things we can do to get a few more knots out of our RV's. Does anyone know how fast the fastest RV-6 is? Dave RV-6 O-360 tip-up Mich. On one leg, Mike and I had a chance to do some back to back full throttle runs. Turns out a his Glasair IIS is exactly 20kts faster than my RV-6. He also came away with Reserve Grand Champion this year. So they're faster, but not THAT much faster. Laird RV-6 640 hrs SoCal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Imfairings(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Subject: Re: fiberglass prep
Rick, Your best bet is to check with the paint shop you are going to use. You could fill the pin holes with a body filler and sand with 150 or 220 grit paper. I would check with them first, however. Bob Fairing-Etc.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Composites
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Here's some numbers Bruce www.glasair.org Does anyone know how fast the fastest RV-6 is? ******************* Copperstate Dash Air Race Results Apple Valley (APV) to Coolidge (P08) 305 NM Course - Oct 11th, 2002 Millennium Class - Experimentals to 180 HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Richard Keyt - Polen Special - 1:10:52 - 258.23 2nd Don Saint - Glasair IIFT - 1:19:42 - 229.61 3rd Larry Henney - Lancair 360 - 1:20:41 - 226.81 4th Ray Caldwell - RV-6A 1:37:02 - 188.59 5th Charles Graves - Glasair I - 1:39:21 - 184.20 6th Matt Koglmeier - RV-6A - 141:29 - 180.33 7th Joh Rost - RV-6A - 1:43:54 - 176.13 Phoenix Class - Experimentals to 160 HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Norman Howell - Long EZ - 1:30:47 - 201.58 2nd Eddie Sneed - RV-3 - 1:40:28 - 182.15 3rd David Biesemeier - S. Sidewinder - 1:40:59 - 181.22 4th Jack Merritt - RV-6 - 1:55:12 - 158.85 5th Dean Berry - RV-6 - 1:56:05 - 157.65 6th Mark Reyner - RV-6A 1:56:61 - 156.61 Flash Gordon Class - Experimentals to 120 HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Klaus Savier - Varieze - 1:21:18 - 225.09 2nd Bob Eckes - Varieze - 1:35:09 - 192.33 3rd Dennis Vories - Turbo Europa - 1:49:27 - 167.20 Road Runner Class - Experimental to 90HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Ron Caraway - Cosman 1 - 1:53:55 - 160.64 2nd Kim Prout - Europa - 2:08:57 - 141.92 3rd David Wilcox - Sonarai - 2:12:22 - 138.25 Millennium Class - Certified to 180HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Scott Schroeder - Mooney - 2:03:45 - 147.88 2nd Adrian Funnell - Grumman - 2:06:07 - 145.10 Phoenix Class - Certified to 160 HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Robert Watson - Grumman - 2:09:09 - 141.07 2nd John Sims - c-172 - 2:23:25 - 127.60 3rd Walter Wasowski - C-172 - 2:34:54 - 118.14 4th Richard Johnson - c-172 - 2:42:16 - 112.78 Flash Gordon Class - Certified to 120HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Dan Hall - Ercoupe - 2:58:48 - 102.35 2nd John Drexler - Luscombe - 3:02:04 - 100.51 Road Runner Class - Certified to 90 HP Place Pilot - Aircraft - Time - Avg. Speed Kts 1st Dan Overholt - Katana - 2:36:36 - 116.86 2nd Ralph Finch - Alon A-2 - 3:01:10 - 101.01 3rd D.Wayne Woolard - Alon A-2 - 3:01:39 - 100.74 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: fiberglass prep
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Rick: I sanded the gel-coat to erase the weave patterns, using 100-120 grit open-coat paper, (lots of "elbow grease", an orbital palm sander helps) then applied Dupont 30S Hi Speed Lacquer Primer Surfacer. sprayed and sanded as required to seal pin-holes. Final sanded using 220-400 silicon-carbide wet-dry paper.--------Cheers!!-------Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Vans Air Filter Assembly
Date: Nov 20, 2002
The cut-out in the base-plate supplied in the kit fit exactly around the drain area of my carb and only a small filet of RTV applied outside, was required to seal. My concern was the chopping done to the filter element to clear the bottom of the accelerator pump. This mod weakens the element to the point that IT may be sucked-in!! I made some .025x1/2x1/2" alum. angles slotted so they could be bent to follow the contours of the inside of the element and then riveted them to the base-plates, top and bottom. -------Cheers!!------Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com>
Subject: parts inventory
Date: Nov 20, 2002
I found reference to it in the archives, but can't duplicate it. Does anyone have a SORTED (my, what a radical idea) -8 fuselage kit parts list? Randomly looking thru a list over 9' long seems wasteful. Are those little brown paper bags of hardware (instead of clear plastic) kept around for nastalgia's sake? Kevin -6A, -8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To cerminil or not to cerminil
>When I built up this engine, 0-360 I had a set of chrome cylinders that I >didn't know the age of but they were just in service limits so I figured I >could get another 500 hours out of them. Well this has worked for 1 and 3 as >I now have 300 hours on them, and the pisser is they are still at 79.5/80, >but 2 and 4 are going south. I'm getting 50/80 on 2 and 62/80 on 4 at TDC. >Its interesting to plot because if I move the piston about 3/4" down they >both are in the mid 60s to 70s but as it moves up the ring gap opens due to >taper and phooosh. It seems to make sense to just do all 4 now rather then >waiting another 200 hours for the right side. Why? If the engine is producing good power why overhaul? How can we explain the results of your testing? I guess you are sure you are using proper compression testing techniques? K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
I gave up on the bag thing about 2 months into the project. I once asked Van's helper elfs (we are approaching Christmas) about the bags. They said they often kick that one around. It is a throw back to people buying a section at a time. It was Van's way of making sure the customer got the hardware they needed for that part of the kit. As for me, finding 18,000 bags in a kit that had a hand full of 426-(fill in the size) rivets, drove me nuts. I got a couple plastic drawer units and 3 tote type plastic boxes with dividers and spent 2 or 3 hours separating the stuff. My son says I am a kinder, nicer person because of this. If Van had callouts on the plans that said go to bag 957, maybe I could understand. Funny thing is, unless you have experience and can ID hardware by looking at it, the bag method leaves you with a lot of decisions. I was (maybe still am) so in-experienced that I determined what a thing was (in the bag) by how many where listed as being in the bag. A pretty good techique, I think, because almost never are there 33 washers of different sizes. There is 29 of one and 32 of another. For me, the drawing calls for a rivet, I go to that rivet drawer and get it. Not to a bag. I used to be a bag lady in another life. Barry Pote RV9a cut the canopy into 2 pieces today. No cracks so far. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: Vans Air Filter Assembly
Date: Nov 20, 2002
That sounds like a great idea, don't suppose you have pics. OK if you don't I think I get the idea. -----Original Message----- From: Elsa & Henry [mailto:elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com] Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Air Filter Assembly The cut-out in the base-plate supplied in the kit fit exactly around the drain area of my carb and only a small filet of RTV applied outside, was required to seal. My concern was the chopping done to the filter element to clear the bottom of the accelerator pump. This mod weakens the element to the point that IT may be sucked-in!! I made some .025x1/2x1/2" alum. angles slotted so they could be bent to follow the contours of the inside of the element and then riveted them to the base-plates, top and bottom. -------Cheers!!------Henry RE: RV-List: Vans Air Filter Assembly That sounds like a great idea, don't suppose you have pics. OK if you don't I think I get the idea. -----Original Message----- From: Elsa Henry [<A HREF"mailto:elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com">mailto:elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com] Subject: Re: RV-List: Vans Air Filter Assembly -- RV-List message posted by: Elsa Henry elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com The cut-out in the base-plate supplied in the kit fit exactly around the drain area of my carb and only a small filet of RTV applied outside, was required to seal. My concern was the chopping done to the filter element to clear the bottom of the accelerator pump. This mod weakens the element to the point that IT may be sucked-in!! I made some .025x1/2x1/2 alum. angles slotted so they could be bent to follow the contours of the inside of the element and then riveted them to the base-plates, top and bottom. -------Cheers!!------Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Clip Art or graphic of RV-4
I would like to get some Land's End shirts for my partners in our RV-4, but I need a graphic of an RV-4 that I can possibly modify with our paint scheme. Or if I can't find that, maybe a clip art of an RV-4 that is good enough to use. Even better, if someone has already done this and Land's End has image on file, I can use it and save big bucks. Any advice? Thanks Jeff Bertsch noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list
Subject: Pneumatic Squeezers
I have been reading recent messages and the archives about Pneumatic Squeezers and I hear a lot of talk about a new design that you don't need to use shims to adjust them but I can't find any info on that in the catalogs I am looking at. Also I don't hear much about the A frame type. I think one message said something about having to use the shims where with the newer C frame squeezers you didn't have to, and a few vague references that they were harder to use. Can someone shed some more light on this subject. One thing I did learn from the catalogs, if you want to squeeze bigger than 1/8" rivets those Squeezers can get pretty dang heavy but the ones for 1/8" and smaller don't seem too bad. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "<alkritzm(at)rockwellcollins.com>
(Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id" ; Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:50:05.-0600(at)matronics.com
Subject: N8EM First Flight
Date: Nov 20, 2002
5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 11/20/2002 04:50:43 PM I made the first flight in my RV-8 N8EM (80353) on 11-19-02 after 5 1/2 years of building. The flight was uneventful just as I had hoped. The only squawks were heavy left wing, encoder reporting incorrect altitude and airspeed reading low (I think I have a leak). Total flight time was just under an hour and included some slow flight and stalls. I would not really break without flaps just kind of bobbed along, but I did not push it. With flaps the stall break was mild with out any wing drop. The landing was not as smooth as I had hoped but it did roll out straight once I got it pointed down the runway. Nothing scary just not smooth. Airplane particulars: O-320 Sensenich Metal Prop. Painted (Dodge Viper Race Yellow) Simple interior, just foam seats with covers. Microair Com and Transponder No Vacuum system (waiting on glass cockpit) Day/night VFR Empty weight 1031 Lb (yes, that is on good digital scales) Flies like a dream. Pilot particulars: Just under 100 hours total time. Yes I started building before I started flying, I had the wings built before I had my first flight instruction. 25 hours in a Citabria. 2 hours with Bob Lynch in his RV-6. I highly recommend Bob for transition training he is a great teacher. Alan Kritzman RV-8 N8EM 0.9 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: To cerminil or not to cerminil
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Wheeler: Sounds like a reasonable analysis, and I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. For what it's worth, I put Cerminil cylinders on my O-360 A4M and have been very happy with the results. Break-in was uneventful and oil consumption at 100 hours is a little less than 1 quart/10hours, all of which finds its way to the belly of my plane (woulda/could/shoulda installed an air/oil seperator). George Kilishek N888GK >From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "'RV-List Digest Server '" >Subject: RV-List: To cerminil or not to cerminil >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 09:23:02 -0800 > > >that is the question. > >actually I have answered it but I thought I'd post my thoughts on the >subject. > >When I built up this engine, 0-360 I had a set of chrome cylinders that I >didn't know the age of but they were just in service limits so I figured I >could get another 500 hours out of them. Well this has worked for 1 and 3 >as >I now have 300 hours on them, and the pisser is they are still at 79.5/80, >but 2 and 4 are going south. I'm getting 50/80 on 2 and 62/80 on 4 at TDC. >Its interesting to plot because if I move the piston about 3/4" down they >both are in the mid 60s to 70s but as it moves up the ring gap opens due to >taper and phooosh. It seems to make sense to just do all 4 now rather then >waiting another 200 hours for the right side. > >I have also noticed for sometime that when pulling to blades through each >cylinder during preflight those two are definately weaker. Although I >always >do a full power runup on the end of the runway to assure full static RPM >and >that hasn't decreased, so they are still dynamically sealing. > >So, after reading everything Superior and ECI has to say about it I decided >to go with ECI Steels. I picked ECI because they cost a lot less and they >seemed to be doing just as much excellant research and development as the >other guys. The question was cerminil or not. I found several "experts" >that >felt the break in issues along with the reduced ability to hold oil on the >walls weren't worth it unless the engine wasn't being flown much. Then the >extra corrosion protection was definately needed. The other issue is >reworking the cerminils is much more difficult during the next overhaul. >Well, I flew 250 hours last year so I went plain steel. > >The other question was to go 8.5:1, 9:1, or 10:1. It would cost more as the >standard pistons are in the kit. The 9:1 0-320h2ad pistons are $42 each and >the 10:1 helicopter pistons were a little more. I did not want the 10:1 as >there will come a time when fuel and detonation is an issue, the only >question is when. The other ones would give a slight increase in power, one >that I might be able to notice, but would cost another $170. Seemed like a >wash to me considering the engine manufacturer has gone to great lengths to >make this a wonderful engine. Why pay money to change it now for something >I >might not even be able to notice??? > >I got a good price for the complete kits, with gaskets, less wrist pins and >rockers/pushrods of $857 a piece to my front door from Premium in Arkansas. >It seems ECI sells then in quanity for much less than they will sell >direct, >which is OK by them; they don't care who you buy it from as they sell it >either way. > >W > > Help STOP SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic Squeezers
Date: Nov 20, 2002
There are [at least] two types of sets/plungers on these suckers. One is adjustable...threaded, and you just rotate it to where you need it. The other is fixed and intentionally short...you have to use washers/shims to get the closed gap to be correct. The pneumatic squeezer that Avery sells comes with the NON-adjustable set by default. For another fifty bucks or however much it is, you can buy the adjustable set. I couldn't live without the adjustable set so I splurged for it. Some people swear by the washer method, that it produces the most consistent results and doesn't "creep." I'll buy that, but the adjustable set gives you somewhat finer granularity. To each his own! Hope this helps, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Woodhouse" <chrisw3(at)cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Pneumatic Squeezers > > I have been reading recent messages and the archives about Pneumatic > Squeezers and I hear a lot of talk about a new design that you don't > need to use shims to adjust them but I can't find any info on that in > the catalogs I am looking at. Also I don't hear much about the A frame > type. I think one message said something about having to use the shims > where with the newer C frame squeezers you didn't have to, and a few > vague references that they were harder to use. Can someone shed some > more light on this subject. One thing I did learn from the catalogs, if > you want to squeeze bigger than 1/8" rivets those Squeezers can get > pretty dang heavy but the ones for 1/8" and smaller don't seem too bad. > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 (home) > chrisw(at)programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca>
Subject: parts inventory
Date: Nov 20, 2002
You can't be serious? Building while fishing for parts out of those stupid little bags? Buy yourself some quality, upright portable (not bolted to the wall) plastic storage bins. (the 2 sided ones work great) It takes about 2-3 hours during inventory to sort everything, but this is paid back a hundred fold in time savings during building. I have one for rivets, 426 on one side, 430 on the other, another for screws & nutplates & washers, and another for nuts & bolts & blind rivets. That covers most all needs. I'd imagine that most builders use a variation of this, but you should never, ever be forced to look through those stupid little bags more than once. S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B rotary powered RX-9endurance (FWF) C-FSTB (reserved) http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm > -----Original Message----- > From: barry pote [SMTP:barrypote(at)comcast.net] > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:19 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: parts inventory > > > I gave up on the bag thing about 2 months into the project. I once asked > Van's helper elfs (we are approaching Christmas) about the bags. > They said they often kick that one around. It is a throw back to people > buying a section at a time. It was Van's way of making sure the customer > got the hardware they needed for that part of the kit. > > As for me, finding 18,000 bags in a kit that had a hand full of > 426-(fill in the size) rivets, drove me nuts. > > I got a couple plastic drawer units and 3 tote type plastic boxes with > dividers and spent 2 or 3 hours separating the stuff. My son says I am > a kinder, nicer person because of this. > > If Van had callouts on the plans that said go to bag 957, maybe I could > understand. > > Funny thing is, unless you have experience and can ID hardware by > looking at it, the bag method leaves you with a lot of decisions. > > I was (maybe still am) so in-experienced that I determined what a thing > was (in the bag) by how many where listed as being in the bag. A pretty > good techique, I think, because almost never are there 33 washers of > different sizes. There is 29 of one and 32 of another. > > For me, the drawing calls for a rivet, I go to that rivet drawer and get > it. Not to a bag. > > I used to be a bag lady in another life. > > Barry Pote RV9a cut the canopy into 2 pieces today. No cracks so far. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: More than I can Chew?
> >Louis: >I have installed the system in my 4. If you can solder and have some hand >eye coordination, enough to fly, you can do it. Give me a call and I will >help all I can. >Dave Aronson >RV4 N504rv Dave, Thanks for the offer. Could you please send your phone number. The Digitrak arrived today, and I am somewhat perplexed about the electrical portion of the installation. Does anyone make pre-wired connectors that I can cut up and splice? Also, am I to remove the mechanical stops currently screwed onto the servo? It seems like there is no way to mount the servo to the mounting bracket and retain the mechanical stop. Did you rivet the bracket to the airframe, or did you use screws? Oh well, then questions outnumber the answers. Hope to here from you soon. Louis - Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop 255 exciting Hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Lycoming casting alloys
Listers, Does anyone know what alloy Lycoming makes the crankcases, accessory cover and sump from? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Subject: Re:Clip art or graphic of RV-4
The construction manual for the RV's has several drawings to use for designing your paint scheme . I made several copies of these and designed & redesigned until I got what I wanted. There are three view and pictorials . RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Builders in the Truckee/Tahoe area?
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Are there any RV builders in the Truckee/Tahoe area? I'm going to be stuck at my inlaws' house up there all next weekend, and I'd love an excuse not to spend $60 on a freakin' lift ticket. If anybody wants a 2nd pair of hands for RV-related stuff, just let me know! 8 ) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "3 rotor" <rv8r300(at)attbi.com>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
Date: Nov 20, 2002
you guys missed my point. It was that they give you a list of parts 9' long in random order and ask you to find them all. I've got bins, heck, I've already got a -6A I built in 2.5 years from unpunched parts. My guess is that it isn't worth the time to check, it seems to have been checked pretty well in the warehouse. kevin -6A, -8 fuse ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com>
Subject: Waco Texas Area Builders?
Date: Nov 20, 2002
I have built a 6A in the past and now building an 8A. Are there any builders in the Greater Waco Metroplex? I am from Shreveport and will be in Waco Thursday Nov 21 thru saturday or sunday and would like to visit some projects or flying planes. E-Mail me or call me please! My cell # is 318-208-3111 Thanks in advance! Jerry Doyal jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Composites
Date: Nov 20, 2002
Don't know if it is the fastest (at 180 HP) but I don't know of any that are faster. "180 HP RV" Class Sun 100 Race at Sun-N-Fun 2002 (KNOTS)... 1st Place Richard Jankowski N241RB RV-6 198.12 2nd Place Richardo Salinas N239RS RV-6 189.35 3rd Place Thomas Irlbeck N214FF RV-8 188.39 4th Place Steven Foste N104SJ RV-8 186.48 5th Place Frank Smith N83FS RV-4 184.50 6th Place Bob Hargrove N426NC RV-8 183.13 In the 200 HP class Dick Martin did a little over 200 kts. I am sure there are "Super 6's" out there with a LOT more than 180+HP that are even faster, but 198 kts in a "180+ HP" RV6 is nothing to sneeze at. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 12:53 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Composites > > > You would have really felt bad though if Kent Paser blew past > both of you with his O-320 powered Mustang II, burning only 12 > gph wide open... > > >From reading through Kent's book, it looks like there's a lot of > things we can do to get a few more knots out of our RV's. > > Does anyone know how fast the fastest RV-6 is? > > Dave > RV-6 O-360 tip-up > Mich. > > > On one leg, Mike and I had a chance to do some back to back full > throttle runs. Turns out a his Glasair IIS is exactly 20kts faster > than my RV-6. He also came away with Reserve Grand Champion this > year. > > So they're faster, but not THAT much faster. > > Laird > RV-6 640 hrs > SoCal > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
Clear plastic fishing lure storage boxes from the "Aviation Department" at Wal Mart (or Cdn tire for those north of the 49th) do well too. You can even jot notes about bolt lengths, etc. on the cover with your favorite colour Sharpie. :-0 Jim Oke RV-6A Wpg., MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca> Subject: RE: RV-List: parts inventory > > You can't be serious? Building while fishing for parts out of those > stupid little bags? Buy yourself some quality, upright portable (not bolted > to the wall) plastic storage bins. (the 2 sided ones work great) It takes > about 2-3 hours during inventory to sort everything, but this is paid back a > hundred fold in time savings during building. I have one for rivets, 426 on > one side, 430 on the other, another for screws & nutplates & washers, and > another for nuts & bolts & blind rivets. That covers most all needs. > I'd imagine that most builders use a variation of this, but you > should never, ever be forced to look through those stupid little bags more > than once. > > S. Todd Bartrim > Turbo 13B rotary powered > RX-9endurance (FWF) > C-FSTB (reserved) > http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: barry pote [SMTP:barrypote(at)comcast.net] > > Sent: Wednesday, November 20, 2002 1:19 PM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: parts inventory > > > > > > I gave up on the bag thing about 2 months into the project. I once asked > > Van's helper elfs (we are approaching Christmas) about the bags. > > They said they often kick that one around. It is a throw back to people > > buying a section at a time. It was Van's way of making sure the customer > > got the hardware they needed for that part of the kit. > > > > As for me, finding 18,000 bags in a kit that had a hand full of > > 426-(fill in the size) rivets, drove me nuts. > > > > I got a couple plastic drawer units and 3 tote type plastic boxes with > > dividers and spent 2 or 3 hours separating the stuff. My son says I am > > a kinder, nicer person because of this. > > > > If Van had callouts on the plans that said go to bag 957, maybe I could > > understand. > > > > Funny thing is, unless you have experience and can ID hardware by > > looking at it, the bag method leaves you with a lot of decisions. > > > > I was (maybe still am) so in-experienced that I determined what a thing > > was (in the bag) by how many where listed as being in the bag. A pretty > > good techique, I think, because almost never are there 33 washers of > > different sizes. There is 29 of one and 32 of another. > > > > For me, the drawing calls for a rivet, I go to that rivet drawer and get > > it. Not to a bag. > > > > I used to be a bag lady in another life. > > > > Barry Pote RV9a cut the canopy into 2 pieces today. No cracks so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: N8EM First Flight
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Congratulations, nice to see that someone else's landings aren't as smooth as they would like. I too had about 25 hours total tail dragger time and opted for transition training with Mike Seagar. It really paid off. Congratulations again. Fran Malczynski Rv6 - N594EF Olcott, NY -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id Subject: RV-List: N8EM First Flight Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id I made the first flight in my RV-8 N8EM (80353) on 11-19-02 after 5 1/2 years of building. The flight was uneventful just as I had hoped. The only squawks were heavy left wing, encoder reporting incorrect altitude and airspeed reading low (I think I have a leak). Total flight time was just under an hour and included some slow flight and stalls. I would not really break without flaps just kind of bobbed along, but I did not push it. With flaps the stall break was mild with out any wing drop. The landing was not as smooth as I had hoped but it did roll out straight once I got it pointed down the runway. Nothing scary just not smooth. Airplane particulars: O-320 Sensenich Metal Prop. Painted (Dodge Viper Race Yellow) Simple interior, just foam seats with covers. Microair Com and Transponder No Vacuum system (waiting on glass cockpit) Day/night VFR Empty weight 1031 Lb (yes, that is on good digital scales) Flies like a dream. Pilot particulars: Just under 100 hours total time. Yes I started building before I started flying, I had the wings built before I had my first flight instruction. 25 hours in a Citabria. 2 hours with Bob Lynch in his RV-6. I highly recommend Bob for transition training he is a great teacher. Alan Kritzman RV-8 N8EM 0.9 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: re: RC Allen attitude indicator gyro
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Real, Can you confirm that your attitude gyro is calibrated for an 8 degree panel tilt? If not, the chances of your gyro failing in short order are greatly increased. --- Rick Galati --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Re: Cylinder replacement
cylinder cylinders Cerminil ECI From: "Sally and George" <aeronut58(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: To cerminil or not to cerminil Wheeler: Sounds like a reasonable analysis, and I'm sure you'll be happy with the results. For what it's worth, I put Cerminil cylinders on my O-360 A4M and have been very happy with the results. Break-in was uneventful and oil consumption at 100 hours is a little less than 1 quart/10hours, all of which finds its way to the belly of my plane (woulda/could/shoulda installed an air/oil seperator). George Kilishek N888GK ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Locking Down Fuel Fittings
From: Don.Alexander(at)AstenJohnson.com
Date: Nov 21, 2002
11/21/2002 09:44:36 AM Hello List I am getting ready to close out my tanks and had a question about the fuel fittings. Should the fuel fittings inside the wings have any sort of sealant/locking compound on them? I am using a fixed pick-up in one wing and a flop tube in the other. I didn't know if the compression of the fittings is enough to prevent leaks, or if a sealer is needed. I also wondered if all of the many joints on the flop tube will stay together or if they need some sort of locking compound. Don Alexander RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv8don(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Subject: A/C Data Plate Requirements
Folks, Does anyone know the FAR that references the the required information on the A/C data plate? I have 2 or 3 different samples, all with slightly different fields. Thanks, -Don RV8 NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mstewart(at)qa.butler.com
Subject: Re: A/C Data Plate Requirements
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Everything you ever wanted to know about data plates. http://www.airworthy.org/dataplates.htm Mike Stewart Everything you ever wanted to know about data plates. http://www.airworthy.org/dataplates.htm Mike Stewart ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
After seeing the fancy storage bins they use in Home Depot to store things like small fasteners, I hunted down the manufacturer myself. I ended up with a wall of 10 rows of these 6-drawer bins: http://www.tiltbin.com/6bin.html They work great, and when you need to use a lot of one size of rivet you can one bin out and move it around your shop. Wall mounted, they keep everything visible and accessible. Each "drawer" has a little nametag slot at the top that you can label the contents with without blocking the view of what's inside. No, I don't work for them, I just like their product... -RB4 RV7 Empennage Jim Oke wrote: > > Clear plastic fishing lure storage boxes from the "Aviation Department" at > Wal Mart (or Cdn tire for those north of the 49th) do well too. You can even > jot notes about bolt lengths, etc. on the cover with your favorite colour > Sharpie. :-0 > > Jim Oke > RV-6A > Wpg., MB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: re RC Allen attitude indicator gyro
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Dave, The good folks at R.C. Allen can more precisely explain why a gyro can prematurely fail if not matched for panel tilt much better than I can. Here's what we can all observe first hand. Assuming an out of the box zero tilt A/H, the adjustable horizon bar controlled by a knob has more or less the same amount of travel up and down when the instrument is level. If you take this same zero degree calibrated instrument and place it at an 8 degree angle as found on your average RV-6 you will find that the adjustable horizon bar is already nearing one of its limits at an 8 degree angle. However, when this instrument is recalibrated for an 8 degree tilt, the adjustable horizon bar once again allows for the same amount of travel up or down when the instrument is placed at an 8 degree angle such as found in our RV's. I'm sure that the folks at R.C. Allen make some internal adjustments to the A/H to insure reliability but what specifically, I do not know. --- Rick Galati --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RC allen attitude indicator problem
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Hi Real: I also had a problem with my R C Allen Horizon Gyro RCA 22-7! The darned thing worked great for the first 5 hours of its operating life as my same time of flight of my RV-6A. It suddenly assumed an ~ 80 degree left bank and stuck there.(Never got into that attitude) On shut down, as the vacuum died, it would start to spin like a top and slowly slow down until it did its dance as a normal gyro does on start-up. Knowing it was out of warranty and being naturally curious, I opened it up and had a good look.- There is a brass nut threaded about half way down a 6-32 stub sticking up from the center of the main gimbal arm,(a balance adjuster)-and it was loose! It could be turned easily about three turns. I also noted that there was considerable side play across the main gimbal arms in the gyro-wheel case. I took it to a reputable repair shop in Dorval, (Montreal) and described what I had seen. There should be nothing loose, the nut should have been properly sealed and there should have not been any side play. I got away cheap-- they charged me 2 hours labor! (C$120 total + taxes) The Quality Control Report stated that "threaded bearing holder is loosened". It was "--opened, partially disassembled, checked, cleaned, reassembled and tested--" It's been working great since. I am not impressed with RC Allens' quality control!!! Cheers!--------Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Gyros
Date: Nov 21, 2002
> > SNIP Gyros have a very limited "shelf life", and if they sit > for extended periods of time without being run will become > useless. This happens because all of the grease in the > needle bearings will settle down to the bottom, and the > bearings may become stuck. While I accept this theory is widely believed to be true, it does not pass the reasonableness test. A more likely suspect is handling that might occur while gyros are being "stored". Torch away. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Subject: Re: re: RC Allen attitude indicator gyro
In a message dated 11/21/2002 4:52:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, rick07x(at)earthlink.net writes: > Can you confirm that your attitude gyro is calibrated for an 8 degree panel > tilt? If not, the chances of your gyro failing in short order are greatly > increased. Can someone who knows how these gyros are constructed, corroborate or disavow this old wives tale? My understanding is that the only thing that gets changed for the 8-10 deg tilt is the height of the little airplane on the adjusting post. What really is going on here? -GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: [RV7Yahoo] Flop tube installtion
Bobby Hester wrote: > I know I saw somewhere that someones instalation included a cover > riveted over the big center hole on the rib that the door is installed > on. I don't see any mention of that in the directions. Is it suppose to > be covered or not? > Here is the answer I got back from Gus Funnell at Vans, this information is not in the Plans or the directions. If your installing a flop tube you will need to do this. Subject: Re: Flop Tube mod - cover hole or not From: Gus Funnell <gusf@vansaircraft> Date: 11/18/02 10:57AM You need to cover the hole or fuel will run out of the inboard bay too fast. Vans On 17 Nov 02, at 21:37, Bobby Hester wrote: >> I am installing a flop tube in my last tank. I have installed the >> hinged door, but I am not sure if I am suppose to put a cover over >> this hole. I have seen that done on other web sites, but there is no >> mention of it in the directions and it is not shown on the plans >> either. Please let me know if I should rivet the plate over the hole >> or not. >> >> -- >> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY >> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ >> RV7A Working on the wings :-) >> >> > > -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Working on the wings :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RC allen attitude indicator problem
Date: Nov 21, 2002
I think you hit it on the head. Quality control. They have some gyros out there that run great for 1000 hours, and others that fail after 5. I've heard both sides of the coin for years now. Personally, the fact that I've heard many negative problems with RC Allen, is enough for me to never put them in an airplane. I put SigmaTek in mine and it works perfectly. That's enough for a decision on the next plane. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RC allen attitude indicator problem <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> > > Hi Real: I also had a problem with my R C Allen Horizon Gyro RCA 22-7! The > darned thing worked great for the first 5 hours of its operating life as my > same time of flight of my RV-6A. It suddenly assumed an ~ 80 degree left > bank and stuck there.(Never got into that attitude) On shut down, as the > vacuum died, it would start to spin like a top and slowly slow down until it > did its dance as a normal gyro does on start-up. Knowing it was out of > warranty and being naturally curious, I opened it up and had a good look.- > There is a brass nut threaded about half way down a 6-32 stub sticking up > from the center of the main gimbal arm,(a balance adjuster)-and it was > loose! It could be turned easily about three turns. I also noted that there > was considerable side play across the main gimbal arms in the gyro-wheel > case. I took it to a reputable repair shop in Dorval, (Montreal) and > described what I had seen. There should be nothing loose, the nut should > have been properly sealed and there should have not been any side play. I > got away cheap-- they charged me 2 hours labor! (C$120 total + taxes) The > Quality Control Report stated that "threaded bearing holder is loosened". It > was "--opened, partially disassembled, checked, cleaned, reassembled and > tested--" > It's been working great since. > I am not impressed with RC Allens' quality control!!! > Cheers!--------Henry Hore > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Locking Down Fuel Fittings
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Don, Recommend pro-seal on the inside tank fittings. For the flop tube, take out the 'O' ring that acts as a bumper on the end, put a little proseal in the 'O' ring groove, then reinstall the 'O' ring. A while back there was some discussion of these 'O' rings working themselves off. Use a little proseal on the flop tube fittings as well. Just be careful not to get any inside the tube. Carl Froehlich RV-8A (flying) Vienna, VA -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don.Alexander(at)AstenJohnson.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Locking Down Fuel Fittings Hello List I am getting ready to close out my tanks and had a question about the fuel fittings. Should the fuel fittings inside the wings have any sort of sealant/locking compound on them? I am using a fixed pick-up in one wing and a flop tube in the other. I didn't know if the compression of the fittings is enough to prevent leaks, or if a sealer is needed. I also wondered if all of the many joints on the flop tube will stay together or if they need some sort of locking compound. Don Alexander RV-8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: re: RC Allen attitude indicator gyro
The gyro doesn't care about the tilt - only the pilot does. The gyro just thinks it's in a slight dive most of the time. If you can adjust the horizon bar for level flight ( I can on mine) it will work just fine. Although, if you're IFR you'd probably want the tilt added since the moveable horizon bar won't line up with level on the outside of the moving gyro face. The bottom line is that not having the tilt added will not damage the instrument. Dave Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 11/21/2002 4:52:54 AM Pacific Standard Time, > rick07x(at)earthlink.net writes: > > > Can you confirm that your attitude gyro is calibrated for an 8 degree panel > > tilt? If not, the chances of your gyro failing in short order are greatly > > increased. > > Can someone who knows how these gyros are constructed, corroborate or disavow > this old wives tale? My understanding is that the only thing that gets > changed for the 8-10 deg tilt is the height of the little airplane on the > adjusting post. What really is going on here? > > -GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs) > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Gyros
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Hi Alex, No Torching necessary. You're explanation carries as much weight as the rest of them. I only posted the storage thing because I have a friend who repairs Gyros for a living, and told me of the problems he had seen as a result of extended storage. Of course handling could and most likely is the #1 reason for failure, along with plumbing them wrong initially. Have a great night. I look forward to your seminar on wiring at Saturday's meeting! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6, Rosemount, MN Still flying of the time! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Peterson Subject: RE: RV-List: Gyros > > SNIP Gyros have a very limited "shelf life", and if they sit > for extended periods of time without being run will become > useless. This happens because all of the grease in the > needle bearings will settle down to the bottom, and the > bearings may become stuck. While I accept this theory is widely believed to be true, it does not pass the reasonableness test. A more likely suspect is handling that might occur while gyros are being "stored". Torch away. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Jack <baron58(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RC Allen attitude indicator
Rick Galati wrote: > ...place it at an 8 degree angle as found on your > average RV-6 you will find that the adjustable horizon > bar is already nearing one of its limits at an 8 degree > angle. What possible effect could the positioning of the horizon bar (an external adjustable visual reference) have on the internal workings of the gyro? Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: Skybolt's site
barry pote wrote: > >Netscape 4.7 will not open www.skybolt.com. >Must use Microsoft explorer. > >Barry Pote RV9a > > Upgrade to Netscape 7.0, I did and I love it! It will open www.skybolt.com just fine! -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Working on the wings :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PittsS1D(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 21, 2002
Subject: KMA24 Audio Panel for Sale
KMA24 Audio Panel/Marker Beacon Receiver for Sale. Excellent condition. Yellow tagged from JA Air with installation kit and manuals. $700. Selling because I sold plane and don't need. Please respond off list to Chuck at grayk9(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2002
From: Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Comfortable parachutes?
>> Hi Tim >> I just tried two different parachutes for comfort from Strong >> Parachute Co. >> Both were uncomfortable for me. They were about as soft as a rock. >> I have >> an RV8a with the tall man option for the seat back and it put my >> knees right >> under the panel. Try them your self they will send you a parachute >> for ten >> days to see if you like it. If you do, then they will make you a >> custom >> color one. >> >> I am going to try Softie Parachute next. My feeling is what good is >> it if >> you don't use it. I don't have any direct experience with the RV comfort yet (still building), but in the glider my National 425 was extremely comfortable for hours on end. The one neat feature is that the chute is convertible between a back style and seat style with a removable flap for the lower portion (GRF Option). Each brand has pros and cons. I found the armored cable of the softie to be uncomfortable in the tight glider cockpit, but on the plus side it has excellent access to the ripcord pins for inspection. The National, on the other hand, is so difficult to inspect the pins that I usually didn't. The plus side was the comfort. If there is a soaring operation nearby that might be a good place to try on some different brands and models. You might even talk some of them into building an RV - it happened to me! http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page39.htm http://www.nationalparachute.com http://www.pia.com/silver/index.htm <- Softies & some good articles Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2002
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)apex.net>
Subject: Re: RE: [rv8list] riveting around hinges
Michael D. Crowe wrote: > >Lucky, > > I have always used a Tatco hand squeezer for that job. Different heads have >thinner ends where the dies go in. Check with builders in your area to see >if one has a thinner head you can borrow. If you are in the Atlanta area I >could help you out. > >Mike Crowe >RV8A >Tail Done > To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com > Cc: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: [rv8list] riveting around hinges > > > Can someone please put me out of my misery and post a picture of a >modified > squeezer yoke or some other method that works for riveting on the hinge to > the elevator trim tab? > > I modified a pair of pliers to try and squeeze some of the rivets that I > couldn't get to with my TATCO hand squeezer with no luck (i'd need to be > Popeye to do an adequate job). > > This is not a place where I can see using something like use an ax blade >or > tapered bucking bar. > > Thanks in advance! > > Lucky > > > I had trouble with that also, goto my Tips page and scroll down a little to see what I found that works http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/Tips.html -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Working on the wings :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Value?
Dear Listers, We are quickly approaching the end of November and the official end of the List Fund Raiser. If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least $20 or $30 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... :-) Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists. Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com>
Subject: RC Allen
Date: Nov 22, 2002
When I bought my RC Allen Attitude gyro, I talked to the woman that makes them. Yep, woman. She explained to me that I could do all the aerobatics I wanted to, just so long as I didn't do a loop. Dave Bristol was right. The adjustable bar isn't the problem with a gyro that doesn't have an 8 degree tilt. The earth and sky don't line up on the center of the gauge. That's weird looking at. I bought a new gauge just for that reason. Jim Nolan N444JN Warsaw, In. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Loops and gyros (wasRC Allen)
Date: Nov 22, 2002
A friend was a contractor who worked on instruments and avionics for Air Force. While visiting his facility, he did a demo for me. He spun up a gyro out of a T-37 and simulated some airobatics by holding the gyro in his hand and moving it through the motions. The loop movement caused the gyro to make a very loud knock. He stated that loops are not good on gyros. He simulated a barrel roll and there was no knock. I can't remember if the roll was to left or right or if direction was important. He says he never does loops in his RV6, but does rolls and barrel rolls and a few other manuvers. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> Subject: RV-List: RC Allen > > When I bought my RC Allen Attitude gyro, I talked to the woman that > makes them. Yep, woman. She explained to me that I could do all the > aerobatics I wanted to, just so long as I didn't do a loop. > Dave Bristol was right. The adjustable bar isn't the problem with a > gyro that doesn't have an 8 degree tilt. The earth and sky don't line up on > the center of the gauge. That's weird looking at. I bought a new gauge just > for that reason. > Jim Nolan > N444JN > Warsaw, In. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: N223RV First Flight!
Date: Nov 22, 2002
CONGRADULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: N8292W(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: N223RV First Flight! >Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 22:43:24 EST > > >This is kinda old news now, but I flew my RV-4 for the first time October >30th from Willow Run Airport in Michigan. Plane came in at 1030 lbs >unpainted, but is full IFR, including vacuum system. The plane flew >excellent with no major issues and minimal trimming necessary. I only have >6.5 hours to date (crappy Michigan weather!) It took 3 years and 8 months >(including a move from Atlanta to Michigan and getting married with a >honeymoon at Sun-N-Fun this year!) and just over 1700 hours. I still have >a >bit of fiberglass work to do, and then paint. >Specs: >-0320-E2D modified to 160 hp >-Sensenich fixed pitch prop >-climbs out at 100 mph and 2000 fpm sustained >-KX155 radio with VOR and G/S >-Standard T panel with all 6 gauges >-UMA 1.25" engine gages (nice and small for my tiny panel) >-center stack built over battery compartment to hold the radio, panel >mounted >Garmin 295, transponder (KT-76A) and Van's fuel gauges. > >A special thanks to all at Van's, everyone on the list who helped me (both >directly and indirectly), and to Russ Werner who provided me with all kinds >of incite and was always there to bounce ideas off of! > >I know y'all have heard it over and over, but keep workin' on that plane, >it >is worth every second of the time spent! > > The new MSN 8: advanced junk mail protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: N8EM First Flight
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Alan, CONGRADULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "<alkritzm(at)rockwellcollins.com> (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) > 20 Nov 2002 16:50:05.-0600(at)matronics.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com, info(at)vansaircraft.com >Subject: RV-List: N8EM First Flight >Date: Wed, 20 Nov 2002 16:55:32 -0600 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 11/20/2002 >04:50:43 PM > >Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.10) with ESMTP id > >I made the first flight in my RV-8 N8EM (80353) on 11-19-02 after 5 1/2 >years of building. The flight was uneventful just as I had hoped. The >only squawks were heavy left wing, encoder reporting incorrect altitude and >airspeed reading low (I think I have a leak). Total flight time was just >under an hour and included some slow flight and stalls. I would not really >break without flaps just kind of bobbed along, but I did not push it. With >flaps the stall break was mild with out any wing drop. The landing was not >as smooth as I had hoped but it did roll out straight once I got it pointed >down the runway. Nothing scary just not smooth. > >Airplane particulars: > O-320 Sensenich Metal Prop. > Painted (Dodge Viper Race Yellow) > Simple interior, just foam seats with covers. > Microair Com and Transponder > No Vacuum system (waiting on glass cockpit) > Day/night VFR > Empty weight 1031 Lb (yes, that is on good digital scales) > Flies like a dream. >Pilot particulars: > Just under 100 hours total time. Yes I started building before I > started flying, I had the wings built before I had my first flight > instruction. > 25 hours in a Citabria. > 2 hours with Bob Lynch in his RV-6. I highly recommend Bob for > transition training he is a great teacher. > > >Alan Kritzman >RV-8 N8EM 0.9 hours > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Gyros and aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
The recent posts about gyros, tilt, etc. and aerobatics has been interesting. It is true that an artificial horizon gyro doesn't like loops, and the directional gyro doesn't like rolls. Each gyro has limits to its travel, and when the limits are reached, large forces are generated. It should be noted that caging is not some magic force reduction device either. This summer, I installed pneumatic valves on my gyros, so that I can shut them off when planning aerobatic flight. The valves are three way valves, and when switched simply shunt the vacuum past the gyro and off towards the vacuum pump. I can reach these valves under the panel in flight. I would suspect that a "dead" gyro hitting its stops has essentially zero force as compared to a spun up one. It is interesting to note the spin down times of my gyros - the AH starts to show a nose down attitude in about 2 minutes, while the DG seems to take something like 6 to 10 minutes to stop functioning. Also interesting is that the AH must be completely dead before restarting in flight, if it is to erect itself (residual spinning will not allow it to use "gravity" to erect itself). Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: cerminil
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Hal, I'm pretty certain my technique is good. I always check @ TDC then check either side of TDC with the piston land forced into the ring going up. The results are because most of the cylinder wear occurs at the top due to high heat and pressure. That's one of the reasons the aluminum head doesn't go very far down over the steel. The heat and high pressure is at the top for a short duration. My concern was and is, after the chrome gets so thin it will finally delaminate, which I have seen happen to over a dozen engines. Its one of the reasons I won't recommend chrome as a viable means to repair cylinders. Also as the cylinder wears from a choked to a tapered condition the piston no longer has the centering alignment effect that the choke offers. This then tends to promote more blow by, quicker rate of wear, more contamination, etc. The bottom end only has 300 hours on it so I was hesitant to push it any further for fear of doing end unecessary damage there. With the swishing ease of pulling through #2 and #4 I just wasn't comfortable flying behind it any longer. Gradual wear can transition into catastrophic wear fairly rapidly. W From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: To cerminil or not to cerminil >When I built up this engine, 0-360 I had a set of chrome cylinders that I >didn't know the age of but they were just in service limits so I figured I >could get another 500 hours out of them. Well this has worked for 1 and 3 as >I now have 300 hours on them, and the pisser is they are still at 79.5/80, >but 2 and 4 are going south. I'm getting 50/80 on 2 and 62/80 on 4 at TDC. >Its interesting to plot because if I move the piston about 3/4" down they >both are in the mid 60s to 70s but as it moves up the ring gap opens due to >taper and phooosh. It seems to make sense to just do all 4 now rather then >waiting another 200 hours for the right side. Why? If the engine is producing good power why overhaul? How can we explain the results of your testing? I guess you are sure you are using proper compression testing techniques? K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-6A is sold
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
\"Rocket-List Digest (E-mail)\"" The RV-6A in Arkansas is sold. I knew it wouldn't last thru the weekend. You gotta be ready to jump when these things pop up. Someone inquired why it was for sale. Owner's health has taken a big hit recently and he felt it was time to give up flying. Bummer. Pray for him and his family. They're facing some tough times. Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karpinski" <karpinski(at)baldcom.net>
Subject: Gyros... Aerobatics .... Off Switches...??
Date: Nov 22, 2002
. So them the next logical step is... If you really want Gyro's. And want to do light aerobatics too.. It may be worth either a switch (Electrics) or a valve (Vac) and then NOT firing them up at the start of the flight ? Any comments from you Gyro experts out there ? ? Inactive gyro's less likely to be harmed.. (logical and easy to do...) Al Karpinski RV8 50% CNY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
Date: Nov 22, 2002
I went to a local photo-processing place and asked them for empty film cassettes. They gave me a shopping bag full of them, glad to get rid of them! There must have been ~200 of them. My "green-thumb" wife is now using them for seeds and I used them for various RV parts. The white plastic ones are fine for rivets, one for each type and size and the snap-on top prevents embitterment when exposed to the stuff we breathe! The black ones are great for AN bolts (the ones that fit) and a variety of other small parts, all identified on the gray cover with the venerable "Sharpie", all stored in stack bins. I found that the white ones were great for storing two-part epoxy primer paint left over from a late evening session, and continuing the next morning, as the stuff I use has a 12 hour pot life. (At least).-------Cheers!! -------Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros and aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Alex, Where could one find these valves? Nice looking plane BTW. Neil ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> Subject: RV-List: Gyros and aerobatics > > The recent posts about gyros, tilt, etc. and aerobatics has been > interesting. It is true that an artificial horizon gyro doesn't like > loops, and the directional gyro doesn't like rolls. Each gyro has > limits to its travel, and when the limits are reached, large forces are > generated. It should be noted that caging is not some magic force > reduction device either. > > This summer, I installed pneumatic valves on my gyros, so that I can > shut them off when planning aerobatic flight. The valves are three way > valves, and when switched simply shunt the vacuum past the gyro and off > towards the vacuum pump. I can reach these valves under the panel in > flight. I would suspect that a "dead" gyro hitting its stops has > essentially zero force as compared to a spun up one. > > It is interesting to note the spin down times of my gyros - the AH > starts to show a nose down attitude in about 2 minutes, while the DG > seems to take something like 6 to 10 minutes to stop functioning. Also > interesting is that the AH must be completely dead before restarting in > flight, if it is to erect itself (residual spinning will not allow it to > use "gravity" to erect itself). > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 229 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com>
Subject: Gyros and aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
> > This summer, I installed pneumatic valves on my gyros, so > that I can shut them off when planning aerobatic flight. Alex, I wonder if a non-spinning gyro will really last longer in an aircraft. I know that the little NavAid eclectic gyro bangs the stops a lot more when not powered. There is not much mass here and at appears to be different with my heaver vacuum gyros. The vibration damage to the bearings might be worse when they are static. I don't know if loops are harder on AIs than rolls but I flew for 220 hours with only rolls and 10 hours after starting loops my SigmaTec AI started acting up. The DG and NavAid TC are still solid. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Gyros... Aerobatics .... Off Switches...??
The gyro shops that I've talked to say that it won't help to turn them off and that the longevity will be about the same. I'm not sure of the logic here but it may be that the vibration on the stopped bearing may be the problem. These are kind of delicate bearings. Maybe the answer is to make them easily removable? Dave Karpinski wrote: > > . > So them the next logical step is... > > If you really want Gyro's. And want to do light aerobatics too.. > > It may be worth either a switch (Electrics) or a valve (Vac) and then > NOT firing them up at the start of the flight ? > > Any comments from you Gyro experts out there ? ? Inactive gyro's less > likely to be harmed.. (logical and easy to do...) > > Al Karpinski RV8 50% > CNY > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RC Allen Gyros
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Listers, The following is a partial response to a query posed to Kelly Manufacturing (RC Allen). Part of my response to a previous question regarding these issues was in error. I stand corrected. ----- Original Message ----- From: kmc info Subject: Re: RC Allen Rick, The main problem with installing a zero degree tilt in an 8 degree panel is that the pitch will always be off. We do not think this will significantly change the life of the unit. The concern would be that the unit is not displaying properly because of the incorrect tilt............ Thanks, kmc ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Galati AM Subject: RC Allen Hello, Could you please explain to me the consequences of installing a zero tilt RC Allen electric artificial horizon instrument onto an 8 degree instrument panel? Will this or will this not shorten the life of the instrument? Thank you. --- Rick Galati --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net --- Rick Galati --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karpinski" <karpinski(at)baldcom.net>
Subject: Solid State Gyro's
Date: Nov 22, 2002
No flaming here... But The general underlying feeling is.. Gyro's in general are expensive, and have lousy warranties... keep them always from aerobatics... ********************************************** Sooo... What about SS Gyros... a quick look on the net revealed Comments about Control Development "EARLY" try at it for $3.5K (Ouch!) If they could take the screen of a PDA and package it in a 3 1/2 " round hole ?? For say $1K.. Well then.. :> anyone played with one of these..... looks like they are just starting to ship now... **************** http://www.anywheremap.com/pages/ai.htm Al Karpinski RV8 50% ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joshua Siler" <joshs(at)ninatek.com>
Subject: Solid State Gyro's
Date: Nov 22, 2002
The EFIS D10 from Dynon (http://www.dynondevelopment.com) looks interesting. About 2k I think...not sure if they are shipping yet. Josh http://www.pilotdaily.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Karpinski Subject: RV-List: Solid State Gyro's No flaming here... But The general underlying feeling is.. Gyro's in general are expensive, and have lousy warranties... keep them always from aerobatics... ********************************************** Sooo... What about SS Gyros... a quick look on the net revealed Comments about Control Development "EARLY" try at it for $3.5K (Ouch!) If they could take the screen of a PDA and package it in a 3 1/2 " round hole ?? For say $1K.. Well then.. :> anyone played with one of these..... looks like they are just starting to ship now... **************** http://www.anywheremap.com/pages/ai.htm Al Karpinski RV8 50% = Contribution ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
Date: Nov 22, 2002
It doesn't matter what you system is - as long as you use a system. My system for organizing parts dies and tools, etc., is to use a series of interlocking drawer cabinets. Each cabinet is a grid of trays - containing 6 rows by 8 columns (from Canadian Tire). Each drawer can be subdivided into 1 to 4 parts by using plastic dividers. I label all drawers with the contents, and group them by function. For instance, in one cabinet the first column is AN3 hardware. The top drawer contains AN3 bolts (the whole tray). Going downward I have trays of AN3 washers, AN3 locknuts, AN3 platenuts, etc. Column Two ? ? AN4 hardware. When I take out a #40 drill bit I will leave the tray cracked open - it ensures that I don't put it back with the #40s. When I am fitting an AN3 bolt in assembly I will take the AN3 Washer tray to my work table. After I have selected the required combination of AN960-10, AN960-10L, An960-10L (small), Tinnerman, etc., I return the tray to the cabinet. Works like a charm. The amount of time it takes to inventory your stuff will be repaid through by faster set-up, fewer errors, less distraction AND BETTER PARTS IDENTIFICATION. You may want to do it differently - just do it in an organized manner, your own way. Happy Building ! ! Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop Finish Kit 85% Complete RV-List message posted by: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> > I went to a local photo-processing place and asked them for empty film cassettes. They gave me a shopping bag full of them< ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Gyros and aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
> > Where could one find these valves? Nice looking plane BTW. > > Neil McMaster Carr, I'll look up the number and post it. Thanks for the compliment. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Gyros and aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
> Alex, I wonder if a non-spinning gyro will really last longer > in an aircraft. I know that the little NavAid eclectic gyro > bangs the stops a lot more when not powered. There is not > much mass here and at appears to be different with my heaver > vacuum gyros. The vibration damage to the bearings might be > worse when they are static. Ken, I weight heavily the opinion of the guy who designed the HSI in my plane (Jim Younkin). I was discussing this topic with him at our forum, and he said any gyro shop that thinks the gyros do better during aerobatics while spinning is looking for business. I suspect that there aren't many planes in existence with switchable vacuum gyros, like mine, so what data would the shops have? Regarding vibration damage static vs spinning, I doubt it. Even if the vibration was severe (+/- 2 g's), it would only create bearing forces twice those when the plane and gyro are sitting still. Some sort of rotional excitement of the gyro to cause it to oscillate between stops in resonance seems the only possible explanation of worse results when not spinning. This doesn't seem likely in flight, as aerobatics are actually quite mild movements. The wild movements the gyro sees are when the spinning gyro tries to find its spin axis when up against a stop. I suspect this question cannot be conclusively answered without data, and it would take a significant project to do so. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Solid State Gyro's
From: Michael Stephan <mstephan(at)shr.net>
I did some research and found two units. I thought that the xbow unit was to be marketed for experimental avaition and the price tag was less than 5K. The Watson unit was more expensive. http://www.watson-gyro.com/products/ahrs.html http://www.xbow.com/Products/Inertial_Systems.htm There is quite a bit of information on the xbow website. -- Michael Stephan RV-8 builder ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros and aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Alex, I think there may be some anecdotal data on this topic. Gyros are shipped all over the country every day from instrument shops and the manufacturer. If the normal shipping trauma caused significant damage, I think we would have some information on it by now. Now, I don't know how many G's a typical package from UPS or FedEx might experience during shipment, but I would guess that at least the box would have some history of rapid shifting of orientation. All of this of course happens to non-spinning gyros. This is the thought process I have gone through to allow me to forget about a removable sub-panel for my gyros which will be electric and easily switched off. Steve Johnson RV-8 #80121 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Gyros and aerobatics > > > > Alex, I wonder if a non-spinning gyro will really last longer > > in an aircraft. I know that the little NavAid eclectic gyro > > bangs the stops a lot more when not powered. There is not > > much mass here and at appears to be different with my heaver > > vacuum gyros. The vibration damage to the bearings might be > > worse when they are static. > > Ken, I weight heavily the opinion of the guy who designed the HSI in my > plane (Jim Younkin). I was discussing this topic with him at our forum, > and he said any gyro shop that thinks the gyros do better during > aerobatics while spinning is looking for business. I suspect that there > aren't many planes in existence with switchable vacuum gyros, like mine, > so what data would the shops have? > > Regarding vibration damage static vs spinning, I doubt it. Even if the > vibration was severe (+/- 2 g's), it would only create bearing forces > twice those when the plane and gyro are sitting still. Some sort of > rotional excitement of the gyro to cause it to oscillate between stops > in resonance seems the only possible explanation of worse results when > not spinning. This doesn't seem likely in flight, as aerobatics are > actually quite mild movements. The wild movements the gyro sees are > when the spinning gyro tries to find its spin axis when up against a > stop. > > I suspect this question cannot be conclusively answered without data, > and it would take a significant project to do so. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 229 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: "Boyd C. Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Loops and gyros (wasRC Allen)
Any mechanical gyro will have a problem trying to turn a full 360 deg in the same axis that it's "axle" is gimballed. (ie, the Attitude Indicator's gyro spins horizontally about a vertical axis and thus hits the stops in a loop and the same for the DG in a roll--since the TC gyro is tilted from the vertical so it can detect both yaw and roll, you'd have to do one turn of a funky flat spin to get it to tumble). The US Navy solved this problem in it's Vietnam era jets (A-4 Skyhawk, F-4 Phantom) with the AJB-3(x) series "All Attitude System" in which multiple gyros fed info to the display head in the panel, which had full motion thru 360 deg in both pitch and roll. However, this system is big, heavy and expensive--tho they were virtually indestructable. The Navy did not seem worried that their pilots would lose attitude information when they were in a flat spin (yaw) : ) Commercial mechanical gyros for GA aircraft are not designed for aerobatics--simple as that. So, why would a company keep info on failure rates for something their unit was not designed to handle? Further, as far as I can tell, the Mean Time to Failure for gyros is not a simple, first-order function of Time in Service, so that graph is non-linear and virtually impossible to predict. That there are so many conflicting theories of why gyros fail, given by people educated in their care and feeding, attests to this problem. So, if you're going to go and flop around the sky, turn 'em off or take 'em out--but, you'll still have to relace them, sometime.... Digital AHRS. Parts that move wear out or break sooner than parts that don't move. Boyd. RV-Super 6 Jerry Calvert wrote: > > A friend was a contractor who worked on instruments and avionics for Air > Force. While visiting his facility, he did a demo for me. He spun up a > gyro out of a T-37 and simulated some airobatics by holding the gyro in his > hand and moving it through the motions. The loop movement caused the gyro > to make a very loud knock. He stated that loops are not good on gyros. He > simulated a barrel roll and there was no knock. I can't remember if the > roll was to left or right or if direction was important. He says he never > does loops in his RV6, but does rolls and barrel rolls and a few other > manuvers. > > > > When I bought my RC Allen Attitude gyro, I talked to the woman that > > makes them. Yep, woman. She explained to me that I could do all the > > aerobatics I wanted to, just so long as I didn't do a loop. > > Dave Bristol was right. The adjustable bar isn't the problem with a > > gyro that doesn't have an 8 degree tilt. The earth and sky don't line up > on > > the center of the gauge. That's weird looking at. I bought a new gauge > just > > for that reason. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: panamared2(at)brier.net
Subject: RVs and Aerobatics (Was Gyros and aerobatics)
A few comments from one who does Aerobatics in an RV. My first slow roll in my RV, a real cockpit disaster. Slow roll means you pull 0 to -1 G. I had loose things in the cockpit, I forgot to switch to the Aerobatic tank. While inverted, maps, pencils and knee board went flying, engine sputtered at -1G, engine monitor (instruments) quit working (loose wire because of -1G attitude) and I am upside down. Very interesting. Lessons learned 1. Get a parachute. Preflight the parachute before using. 2. After A/C preflight, do an aerobatic preflight (another 20 minutes of checking) I should do a check of the inverted oil system, but than means taking off the top and bottom cowl. A. Remove any items from the baggage area, tool box, extra QT of oil, etc. B. Remove all items from my pockets, or zip pockets of flight suit. C. Secure all items in the cockpit D. Preflight parachute E. Put on Parachute, adjust the harness 5. Prior to aerobatics, conduct airborne pre-aerobatic checklist Fuel Pressure Oil Pressure Voltage Oil Temp Reset G Meter Select Aerobatic Tank (check fuel level both tanks) Ratchet down seat belts Tighten Shoulder Harness Secure all loose items (knee board, GPS, Maps, checklists) Check parachute, locate ripcord Check to insure canopy is locked, make sure it can be opened in an emergency Make sure I am flying in an aerobatic approved airspace (can not fly aerobatics within 5 miles (I think) of an airway, Insure I can recover from Aerobatic maneuver way above 1500 feet AGL 6. Conduct clearing turns. 7. I fly in the mountains, so I do aerobatics over an emergency landing site. I do not have any Gyros, but if I did I would remove them. I use my A/C for cross county and aerobatics. If I had to remove the Gyros every time I flew aerobatics, then that would definitely reduce the amount of time I would be flying aerobatics. As it is now, I start flying with full tanks, I burn down the fuel in the non aerobatic tank, then I do aerobatics on the aerobatic tank. Lightness counts. Running out of fuel on the way to or from the aerobatic practice area is not good form. I use a National Parachute, it is not comfortable, I do not like to use it for non aerobatic flight. Doing aerobatics at night (I am not that good). Under a 6000' ceiling, (I am not that good). When I do not feel aggressive or I am tired, I don't do aerobatics. After a high G aerobatic session, I am really beat (tired) I fly directly to the airport and land, no touch and goes. Disclaimer: This is what I do, it might not work for you, and it probably does not include all things recommended by the IAC. I keep an open mind and I am prepared to learn from the mistakes of others. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV's and Aerobatics
Date: Nov 22, 2002
You seem to have forgotten the MOST IMPORTANT item of all !!! Get some aerobatic instruction with a good instructor !!! It will save MUCH grey hair and elevated blood pressure ; possibly even prevent making a hole in the ground . NEVER split S an RV at more than 100 MPH - I did that and came whistling out the bottom at about 30% above redline ! NOT GOOD !! Bob Olds , Old n' grey , RV-4 N1191X Charleston , Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks(at)aol.com>
Subject: Headset Plugs for TR-720 Handheld Radio
Date: Nov 22, 2002
I desperately need two headset plugs for Communications Specialists TR-720 handheld airband radio . Any info appreciated . Bob Olds , RV-4 , N1191 Charleston,Arkansas no not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
Subject: Re: Solid State Gyro's
From: Michael Stephan <mstephan(at)shr.net>
I contacted Crossbow to ask about the price, and I need to correct my previous post. The Crossbow AHRS400cc which is the cheapest option available is $7500. -- Michael Stephan RV-8 builder > > I did some research and found two units. I thought that the xbow unit was > to be marketed for experimental avaition and the price tag was less than 5K. > The Watson unit was more expensive. > > http://www.watson-gyro.com/products/ahrs.html > http://www.xbow.com/Products/Inertial_Systems.htm > > There is quite a bit of information on the xbow website. > > > -- > Michael Stephan > RV-8 builder > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel F-821
Hello- I am finally finishing up the fuselage and am second guessing drilling the forward top panel F-821 to the fuselage. I have drilled the flanges that hold the panel - but have stopped short of drilling the holes along the longerons. Everything seems to line up OK. I have designed my panel - but haven't cut it yet and consequnelty haven't installed the panel equipment. I am wondering if all this work in here may upset the alignment of the top panel along the longerons. Let alone hanging that IO360. Looking for folks feedback: Did you drill the top panel before or after you installed all the gear on the panel and hung the engine? -Dag P.S. I am not going to rivet the top panel until all the radio and firewall forward is done. ==== ***************** Dag Adamson 617 513 1182 Cambridge, MA Grand Junction, CO ***************** http://mailplus.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2002
From: Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Gyros and aerobatics
snips FWIW, another perspective: I was a partner in a 200hp Swift for a couple of years. My partner flew airshows in the plane on a regular basis for almost 10 years. He also used the plane as a commuter to get to his airline 'day job'. I learned acro in the plane. I put around 200 hrs on it, with at least 30 or 40 of them positive g acro like most people do in RV's. My partner had a LOT more hours doing acro in the plane. Because it was his commuter as well, it was flown IFR on a regular basis. Total hours flown: almost 2000 Gyro failures: 0 Pump failures: several This subject comes up from time to time on this list, & dozens of people have said that acro kills gyros. However, I can't remember a single person who has said that they have personally had a gyro failure in a plane used for acro AND that the plane had never had a prior failure of a dry vacuum pump. Are any of you out there with that experience? I don't dispute that acro is harder on gyros than no acro. But I also recognize that acro is a lot harder on an engine, prop & airframe than no acro. This is a choice that anyone who performs acro makes and no one seems concerned with catastrophic failure of their engine or prop. So, does it really make that much sense to worry so much about the gyros? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: Prop
Date: Nov 23, 2002
I'm shopping for a go fast prop for my RV-6 to replace the Hartzell that's on it (that means I'm selling the Hartzell). Does anyone have any experience with an Aero Composites prop on a RV? I really don't want to go to a fixed pitch prop. Thanks, Dave RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Fund Raiser Free Gift Shipping Status...
Dear Listers, A couple of people have written asking what the shipping status was of their free List Contribution Gifts. Seemed like some status was in order and I thought I detail where we're at... Flight Bag Requests ------------------- On 11/20/02 I shipped out the first batch of Flight Bag-Only (FBO) gift requests. I shipped all FBO gift requests I had received from 11/1 to 11/19 except for 3 (Sorry guys!) - I ran out of my first shipment flight bags! Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore ( http://www.buildersbooks.com ) is supplying me with another batch flight bags which should arrive in about 2 weeks. By the way, these are REALLY nice Flight Bags. Extremely well built and very professional looking. Folds down into a very small size, but will hold a huge amount of stuff. If you fly, and you've got a lot of stuff, they you WANT one of these guys. Surf over to the List Contribution page for details on how to get one of your own!!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution The Flight Bags have been shipped out US Mail Parcel Post in a large, and I mean LARGE, padded white plastic envelope. According to the Post Office, worse case delivery time would be 8 days to destinations on the East Coast, but indicated it would likely take a lot less time. Archive CDROM Requests ---------------------- The Archive CDROMs will be mastered and burned on or about December 1 and should ship out shortly there after. Shipping will be US Mail, Media Rate in a big padded white envelope. The Archive List data included will be up to November 30th. Flight Bag and Archive CDROM Requests ------------------------------------- These combination orders will ship out when the Archive CDROMs are complete as described above, likely a little after December 1. The Flight Bag and the CDROM will be shipped together in the same Giant white padded envelope! Again, I want to thank Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore for providing these awesome Flight Bags to support the List Fund Raiser. Andy has gone way beyond the call of duty with regard to his support of the Lists this year and to show your gratitude I would ask that you have a look at his web site and great media offerings. You'll find some excellent deals on some very useful material. http://www.buildersbooks.com And finally, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution so far this year! Your generosity and kindness is greatly appreciated. If you've been putting off making a Contribution, now's a great time show your appreciation in plenty of time to make it onto this year's List of Contributors AND get your free gift with qualifying Contribution!!! List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution/ Thank you! Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fuselage Kit Updated
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Did Van's ever go back to the RV8 model and "further refine" the fuselage kit to get it up to the same pre-punched standards as the RV9? I took some time off from the RV building scene so did't pay too close attention to these things but I heard that when the 9 kit came out you could cleco the whole fuselage together right out of the box. Maybe that was a slight exaggeration but supposedly pretty true. The impact was the jig didn't have to be as precise/important since the RV9 parts are "self aligning" for the most part. Is the 8 like that now too? curious, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Kit Updated
Date: Nov 23, 2002
I asked Van about that at Airventure 2002. He said there was no plans to update the RV8 fuse right now. That was part of my deciding factor in building the 7. The 8 is next however. The "add clecoes, shake box, got fuselage" description in my opinion is a bit optimistic. Steve Rv7A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Kit Updated > > Did Van's ever go back to the RV8 model and "further refine" the fuselage > kit to get it up to the same pre-punched standards as the RV9? > > I took some time off from the RV building scene so did't pay too close > attention to these things but I heard that when the 9 kit came out you > could cleco the whole fuselage together right out of the box. Maybe that > was a slight exaggeration but supposedly pretty true. The impact was the > jig didn't have to be as precise/important since the RV9 parts are "self > aligning" for the most part. Is the 8 like that now too? > > curious, > lucky > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Fuselage Kit Updated
Van has made small improvements though. I understand that he did make a few small changes in the landing gear box area to address problems that we earlier builders had. He added powder coating to the steel parts, etc. Changing to a prepunched fuselage would require a huge amount of work though to ensure the parts were speced correctly so the holes would all line up. It is much easier to move to a prepunched wing than a prepunched fuselage as something with parallel surfaces is much more tolerant of the typical stack up of tolerances. Kevin Horton > >I asked Van about that at Airventure 2002. He said there was no plans >to update the RV8 fuse right now. > >That was part of my deciding factor in building the 7. The 8 is next >however. > >The "add clecoes, shake box, got fuselage" description in my opinion is >a bit optimistic. > >Steve >Rv7A > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy(at)earthlink.net> >To: "RV-List Digest Server" >Subject: RV-List: Fuselage Kit Updated > > >> >> Did Van's ever go back to the RV8 model and "further refine" the fuselage >> kit to get it up to the same pre-punched standards as the RV9? >> >> I took some time off from the RV building scene so did't pay too close >> attention to these things but I heard that when the 9 kit came out you >> could cleco the whole fuselage together right out of the box. Maybe that >> was a slight exaggeration but supposedly pretty true. The impact was the >> jig didn't have to be as precise/important since the RV9 parts are "self >> aligning" for the most part. Is the 8 like that now too? >> >> curious, >> lucky > > >> -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: parts inventory
> >It doesn't matter what you system is - as long as you use a system. I used clearish flat tray like boxes of about 12 compartments each. Some parts can be stored two in one bin. I put AN3-4 bolts and AN3-14 bolts in the same bin as they are easy to tell apart. The boxes stack and I put an icon on the ends. I gave up tiny drawers with labels years ago. Too many itty bitty labels to make and squint at and too many 'pull drawer out, nope, push drawer in's. Bags are okay too. Odd, rarely accessed items... Inventory the expensive bags and forget the rest. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Loops and gyros (wasRC Allen)
> >So, if you're going to go and flop around the sky, turn 'em off >or take 'em out--but, you'll still have to relace them, sometime.... > >Digital AHRS. Who cares if they wear out? It's only money!! For the price of digital you can buy a bag full of the old fashioned gyros. Buy two sets of rebuilt ones and rebuild as necessary. I think I'll try a shutoff valve too. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: Re: Prop
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Whirl Wind definitely has light weight going for it, but I'm not sure 3 blades is the best setup for efficient cruise with a RV. The reason for going to 3 blades vs. 2 is usually for ground clearance and/or reduced prop noise because of lower tip speeds from reduced diameter. A 3 blade can also reduce the stresses on the crankshaft during aerobatics and in some cases increase "hang time" because of a lower blade loading for a given diameter. A Hartzell engineer told me to go with the largest diameter possible for the highest cruise speed, although I haven't heard of anyone trying different diameter C/S props of the same make on the same airplane to validate that claim. His statement was based on the parasitic drag increase of the fuselage due to the smaller area of increase local flow velocity of the smaller diameter prop. I'm sure that there would be an optimum diameter dependent on the percentage of drag from the fuselage relative to the whole airplane. Dave > Give the Whirlwind Prop 150 series > a look see. > > Mauri > RV8 wings/tanks > > > > I'm shopping for a go fast prop for my RV-6 to replace the Hartzell that's > > on it (that means I'm selling the Hartzell). Does anyone have any > > experience with an Aero Composites prop on a RV? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Dave > > RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Julie Jankowiak" <jjankowiak(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: parts inventory
Date: Nov 23, 2002
I am hoping to send this email to all members. I am interested in unfinished RV 6 kits for sale. Not RV 6A. Can you please direct me to a web site that advertises kits for sale. Thanks for your help. Howard Nelson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of kempthornes Subject: Re: RV-List: parts inventory > >It doesn't matter what you system is - as long as you use a system. I used clearish flat tray like boxes of about 12 compartments each. Some parts can be stored two in one bin. I put AN3-4 bolts and AN3-14 bolts in the same bin as they are easy to tell apart. The boxes stack and I put an icon on the ends. I gave up tiny drawers with labels years ago. Too many itty bitty labels to make and squint at and too many 'pull drawer out, nope, push drawer in's. Bags are okay too. Odd, rarely accessed items... Inventory the expensive bags and forget the rest. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)nbnet.nb.ca>
Subject: Items for sale.
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Hello all I thought I would just pass along that I have a King KX155 for sale on ebay this week. It is a ex helicopter unit that will not drive a speaker, but would be ideal for an RV. None G/S, but does have a VOR head with it. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=26436&item =1873013034&rd=1 I have a few other items for sale right now as well, but the 155 is the gem. Joe Hine RV4 C-FYTQ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Subject: Re: Prop
Hi All, I just completed the certification classes for MT-Propeller hydraulic and electric constant speed props. So I am very biased. Propellers are normally designed to have optimum efficiency at cruise RPM, or at climb RPM. (My observation.) During the second week of class, I went to lunch each day with the engineers. The MT-Propeller blades can be designed to be optimum specifically for what you want to accomplish; i.e., climb, cruise, top speed, etc. This blade design is then entered into their normal operation for fabrication and assembly. I'll let you know how it works after I have my new MT-Propeller electric CS prop installed and flying. (The root of the blade on my prop in cruise look like it is feathered. However, the lift distribution is nearly constant. It looks a great deal different than the Ivoprop Magnum prop, besides being white instead of black. :-) ) Jim Ayers RV-3 N47RV LOM M332A engine Warnke fixed pitch wood prop MTV-7-C/L175-112 prop arrived yesterday. Propeller Assembly Fixture - due within two weeks. Prop Balance Stand - fabrication in process. FAA Repair Station - request in process. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Chris Woodhouse <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list
Subject: Matched Injectors?
I once heard someone talk about a process where you monitor the EGT on all cylinders and swap out the injectors so that you get the same or at least closer to the same EGT on all cylinders and how this is supposed to significantly improve fuel economy. Has anyone else heard of this or done it? -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: New vertical stab & rudder (RV-6)
I am giving serious thought to putting a RV-7 vertical stab and rudder on my old 1989 RV-6. I was wondering if anyone else has done this? In the almost 14 years of flying my RV-6 the ONE thing I do not really like about it is the lack of rudder authority in stiff crosswinds. IMO I feel that the fatter fuselage somewhat lessens the effect of the rudder. My ex hanger partner had an RV-6 with the same complaint, he sold it and bought an RV-4 (to fly while building his Harmon Rocket)and say it is like a different airplane in crosswind handling. It takes a lot of the pucker factor out of strong crosswind landings. Several at the pilots breakfast this morning said the larger surfaces on the RV-7 helps this situation. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Matched Injectors?
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Isn't that the concept behind GAMIjectors? http://www.gami.com )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (fuselage) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Woodhouse" <chrisw3(at)cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Matched Injectors? > > I once heard someone talk about a process where you monitor the EGT on > all cylinders and swap out the injectors so that you get the same or at > least closer to the same EGT on all cylinders and how this is supposed > to significantly improve fuel economy. Has anyone else heard of this or > done it? > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 (home) > chrisw(at)programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Matched Injectors?
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Check out www.gami.com Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chris Woodhouse Subject: RV-List: Matched Injectors? I once heard someone talk about a process where you monitor the EGT on all cylinders and swap out the injectors so that you get the same or at least closer to the same EGT on all cylinders and how this is supposed to significantly improve fuel economy. Has anyone else heard of this or done it? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Subject: [ Marc Drake ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Marc Drake Subject: My Two Projects... http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/drakerv@gte.net.11.23.2002/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: Re: New vertical stab & rudder (RV-6)
Date: Nov 23, 2002
>I am giving serious thought to putting a RV-7 vertical stab and rudder on my old 1989 RV-6. I was wondering if anyone else has done this? In the almost 14 years of flying my RV-6 the ONE thing I do not really like about it is the lack of rudder authority in stiff crosswinds. < I've been having thoughts of doing something similar on my 6, but with a little difference. In stead of just using a 7 fin and rudder, I was thinking of using a 6 fin with a new rudder. The fin would be modified by eliminating the angle on top and making a taller fiberglass tip. The taller tip would house the comm antenna (my understanding is that all you would need is 10" of vertical fiberglass). The rudder would be taller with a counter balance and wider in chord with heavier skins. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net>
Subject: Re: Matched Injectors?
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Check out GAMI...basically if you get your engine well balanced you can run at peak egt or a little on the lean side of peak, this is where you get the improved economy. Run the lean test that GAMI suggests. If you are running a Lycoming, you will probably not find much difference between cylinders and hence you can run near peak if you like. If you are running a Continental you will probably need matched injectors. I ran the test on my Lycoming IO-360-B1E (180hp) twice and there was only about .3 gals. per hour difference between the cylinders. At 7000ft., 65% power, 100 deg. lean of peak, I was burning 8.0 gals per hour and still indicating 175 mph. Jim Jim Cimino RV-8 sn 80039 N7TL 75+ Hrs. http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ (570)842-4057 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chris Woodhouse" <chrisw3(at)cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Matched Injectors? > > I once heard someone talk about a process where you monitor the EGT on > all cylinders and swap out the injectors so that you get the same or at > least closer to the same EGT on all cylinders and how this is supposed > to significantly improve fuel economy. Has anyone else heard of this or > done it? > > -- > Chris Woodhouse > 3147 SW 127th St. > Oklahoma City, OK 73170 > 405-691-5206 (home) > chrisw(at)programmer.net > N35 20.492' > W97 34.342' > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: New vertical stab & rudder (RV-6)
> >I am giving serious thought to putting a RV-7 vertical stab and rudder on my >old 1989 RV-6. I was wondering if anyone else has done this? In the almost 14 >years of flying my RV-6 the ONE thing I do not really like about it >is the lack >of rudder authority in stiff crosswinds. IMO I feel that the fatter fuselage >somewhat lessens the effect of the rudder. My ex hanger partner had >an RV-6 with the >same complaint, he sold it and bought an RV-4 (to fly while building >his Harmon >Rocket)and say it is like a different airplane in crosswind >handling. It takes a lot >of the pucker factor out of strong crosswind landings. >Several at the pilots breakfast this morning said the larger >surfaces on the RV-7 >helps this situation. > >Jerry > If I understand you properly, in large crosswinds you sometimes find that you are using full rudder, and wishing that you had even more rudder available. Or, in other words, you can't generate quite enough sideslip angle with full rudder to handle the crosswinds you sometimes encounter. Have I got this correct? How do the rudder and VS areas of the old and new tails compare? A bigger rudder will allow you to generate more sideslip angle for the same rudder input. But, the VS tends to want to keep the nose pointed into wind, so a bigger VS would mean less sideslip angle for the same rudder input. If the VS and rudder areas are both increased you may or may not end up with more sideslip capablity. If you are really interested in more sideslip capablity, you would want to increase the rudder area, but keep the VS area the same. Can you make the -7 rudder work with your VS? Now, if I have misunderstood your problem, then ignore all this drivel. :) -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage
panel F-821 > >I have drilled the flanges that hold the >panel - but have stopped short of drilling the holes >along the longerons. I don't remember the order in which I did it. Do you also have a 6a slider? I'd leave the panel till next to last. Last is the canopy plexiglass. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New vertical stab & rudder (RV-6)
Kevin Horton wrote: > > >> >>I am giving serious thought to putting a RV-7 vertical stab and rudder on my >>old 1989 RV-6. I was wondering if anyone else has done this? In the almost 14 >>years of flying my RV-6 the ONE thing I do not really like about it >>is the lack >>of rudder authority in stiff crosswinds. IMO I feel that the fatter fuselage >>somewhat lessens the effect of the rudder. My ex hanger partner had >>an RV-6 with the >>same complaint, he sold it and bought an RV-4 (to fly while building >>his Harmon >>Rocket)and say it is like a different airplane in crosswind >>handling. It takes a lot >>of the pucker factor out of strong crosswind landings. >>Several at the pilots breakfast this morning said the larger >>surfaces on the RV-7 >>helps this situation. >> >>Jerry >> > > > If I understand you properly, in large crosswinds you sometimes find > that you are using full rudder, and wishing that you had even more > rudder available. Or, in other words, you can't generate quite > enough sideslip angle with full rudder to handle the crosswinds you > sometimes encounter. Have I got this correct? > Yes Kevin, you have pretty much got it correct. From what I understand the larger VS helps dampen some of what people call fishtailing in turbulence. I have never thought that was a problem in my RV-6, or I am just used to it and the larger rudder helps with the crosswind capability. I want to talk to Van about it and get his opinion before I start. There is a reason that the -7 and -9 have larger stabs and rudders. I do understand what you are saying about a larger VS. I also believe that the rudder is where most of the "larger" comes from on the -7 and -9,they also have the counter balanced rudder that I don't have. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2002
From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel F-821
>I have drilled the flanges that hold the >panel - but have stopped short of drilling the holes >along the longerons. >I don't remember the order in which I did it. Do you >also have a 6a slider? I am doing the slider. Is there anyone out there who drilled the top panel first and then hung the engine and panel gear? Thanks again Dag http://mailplus.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Prop
Date: Nov 23, 2002
Dave, I'm in the same boat, although there are several things I'm after. I have a deposit on an AeroComposites. I have dedicated a page to this prop upgrade at www.rv-8.com/Prop.htm and will be posting my results there. Randy Lervold RV-8, 279 hrs www.rv-8.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com> Subject: RV-List: Prop > > I'm shopping for a go fast prop for my RV-6 to replace the Hartzell that's > on it (that means I'm selling the Hartzell). Does anyone have any > experience with an Aero Composites prop on a RV? I really don't want to go > to a fixed pitch prop. > > Thanks, > > Dave > RV-6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: New vertical stab & rudder (RV-6)
Date: Nov 24, 2002
>I am giving serious thought to putting a RV-7 vertical stab and rudder on my old 1989 RV-6. I was wondering if anyone else has done this? In the almost 14 years of flying my RV-6 the ONE thing I do not really like about it is the lack of rudder authority in stiff crosswinds. < I've been having thoughts of doing something similar on my 6, but with a little difference. In stead of just using a 7 fin and rudder, I was thinking of using a 6 fin with a new rudder. The fin would be modified by eliminating the angle on top and making a taller fiberglass tip. The taller tip would house the comm antenna (my understanding is that all you would need is 10" of vertical fiberglass). The rudder would be taller with a counter balance and wider in chord with heavier skins. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: RV-4 & RV-6A For Sale
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Hello All, I am back........ I said last summer the pink panther was for sale, but I have been dragging my feet about selling it. Well it is time. I have to have an IFR airplane, ( I am still looking for an IFR -4 w/CS) 1994 RV-4 IO-320 ~775 TT ~600 SMOH Bernie Warnke prop VFR Val 760 Flybuddy Loran Narco Xponder w/alt Aeroflash nav/strobes A great airplane! I have owned it for over 5 years and flown it over trouble free hours 500 hours RV-6A O-360 ~500 TT ~500 Engine Snew Prince prop IFR KX-55 w/GS KLX-135 GPS/Comm KT-76 w/alt Garmin 195 Nav/strobes 2 axis elect trim manual flaps This airplane belongs to the brother of the WWII navy pilot who mentored me flying warbirds for years. I helped him buy this airplane and I said I would help him sell it. If I can't find a nice IFR -4, I may buy this myself, but I am struggling with the whole idea sitting to the side, and a nosewheel.... This too is a very nice airplane. I am working on digital pics of both. Great to be back! Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2002
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: New vertical stab & rudder (RV-6)
Maybe Gary LeGare would post a picture of Casper from the side... Casper is a modified RV-6 that lives in California somewhere, but came up to the Langley fly-in this year (where I saw it). I seem to recall it has an enlarged tail, in the manner you describe below. Personally, I thought the taller tail looked out-of-place on the airframe, but that's just me. I may be biased by the umpteen hundred RV's i'd seen with stock tails before seeing Gary's. -Rob Prior RV7 Empennage (stock) Dave wrote: > >>I am giving serious thought to putting a RV-7 vertical stab and rudder on > > my old 1989 RV-6. I was wondering if anyone else has done this? In the > almost > 14 years of flying my RV-6 the ONE thing I do not really like about it is > the > lack of rudder authority in stiff crosswinds. < > > I've been having thoughts of doing something similar on my 6, but with a > little difference. In stead of just using a 7 fin and rudder, I was > thinking of using a 6 fin with a new rudder. The fin would be modified by > eliminating the angle on top and making a taller fiberglass tip. The taller > tip would house the comm antenna (my understanding is that all you would > need is 10" of vertical fiberglass). The rudder would be taller with a > counter balance and wider in chord with heavier skins. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Pol;ished Sensenich Spinner
Date: Nov 24, 2002
The spinning process used in manufacturing the Sensenich spinner creates tooling marks on the spinner. They appear as rings around the spinner. I have polished the spinner to a mirror finish, but the marks are still visible. The spinner is smooth and the marks cannot be felt, but are visible. Can these marks be removed with more work, or is this normal? Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Polished Sensenich Spinner
Date: Nov 24, 2002
>The spinning process used in manufacturing the Sensenich spinner creates >tooling marks on the spinner. They appear as rings around the spinner. I >have polished the spinner to a mirror finish, but the marks are still >visible. The spinner is smooth and the marks cannot be felt, but are >visible. > >Can these marks be removed with more work, or is this normal? > >Jerry Calvert >Edmond Ok >RV6 N296JC(res) Jerry, I don't have the Sensenich metal spinner, but have owned a few of the Tru-Turn aluminum spinners on my RC toys. They spin these out of a solid chunk of alloy and they can be polished to a mirror finish. The grooves are likely due to the cutter being moved a bit too fast. When you're manufacturing stuff for resale, you don't want to spend too much time on it, so that may be the reason for the somewhat coarse finish. It's certainly fine for a good looking, serviceable installation, but not for a show plane. The surface can be polished out with a coarser polishing compound or rouge. It all depends on how much time you want to spend on it. Or, have it chrome plated and be done with it. Time or money, your choice! Have fun. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD Sensenich with Van's spinner. MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Polished Sensenich Spinner
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Brian, Just returned home from getting coarser compound. The compounds I used would easily get the mirror finish, just wouldn't take off enough to clear the turn lines. They are microscopic and can't be felt, but are visable. The compound I have now will take out minor imperfections, so if this doesn't do, I will live with the results. Thanks for the comments. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Polished Sensenich Spinner > > > >The spinning process used in manufacturing the Sensenich spinner creates > >tooling marks on the spinner. They appear as rings around the spinner. I > >have polished the spinner to a mirror finish, but the marks are still > >visible. The spinner is smooth and the marks cannot be felt, but are > >visible. > > > >Can these marks be removed with more work, or is this normal? > > > >Jerry Calvert > >Edmond Ok > >RV6 N296JC(res) > > > Jerry, > > I don't have the Sensenich metal spinner, but have owned a few of the > Tru-Turn aluminum spinners on my RC toys. They spin these out of a solid > chunk of alloy and they can be polished to a mirror finish. The grooves are > likely due to the cutter being moved a bit too fast. When you're > manufacturing stuff for resale, you don't want to spend too much time on it, > so that may be the reason for the somewhat coarse finish. It's certainly > fine for a good looking, serviceable installation, but not for a show plane. > The surface can be polished out with a coarser polishing compound or > rouge. It all depends on how much time you want to spend on it. Or, have > it chrome plated and be done with it. Time or money, your choice! Have fun. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > Sensenich with Van's spinner. > > MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2002
From: emrath <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel F-821
I drilled the forward top skin and panel, fit the canopy already. I plan on mounting the enging and finishing the panel with equipment and wiring concurrently. Another local builder has done his -6A slider this way, with no apparent issues. Seems to be working out fine, but riveting on that top skin is going to be a challenge. In fact, I've mounting the canopy, but have yet to mount the tail or set the wing angle of incidence and drilled the rear spar bolt hole. I wanted to get the canopy cut and mounted before the weather turned cold. The other stuff I hope to get done this winter. Marty in Brentwood, TN From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel F-821 >I have drilled the flanges that hold the >panel - but have stopped short of drilling the holes >along the longerons. >I don't remember the order in which I did it. Do you >also have a 6a slider? I am doing the slider. Is there anyone out there who drilled the top panel first and then hung the engine and panel gear? Thanks again Dag http://mailplus.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV7 Quck Build Fuselage & Wings for Sale
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Long story but I ended up with a 6 and a 7 kit this past week. I am selling the 7. No work has been done on the kit. Let me know if you are seriously intersted. Ned ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2002
From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: peel ply
A one hour review of the archives, led me to new subjects that I will need to master shortly. But there are still lingering doubts about how peel ply is used on fiberglass lay ups to get a smooth finish. I believe that you apply it dry, on top of the final fiberglass lay-up. You smooth it down with a tamper, brush or fingers. It soaks up excess resin. You remove the peel ply after the glass sets up, to a smooth finish. Is that correct? Barry Pote RV9a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: peel ply
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Yes, the peel ply will allow you to remove excess resin and after the resin has cured removing the peel ply will also remove any amine blush that has occured and will actually make the finish sanding easier. Peel ply is a good idea.You have the right idea as to use. Craig Warner - started verticle stab RV6 ----- Original Message ----- From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: peel ply > > A one hour review of the archives, led me to new subjects that I will > need to master shortly. But there are still lingering doubts about how > peel ply is used on fiberglass lay ups to get a smooth finish. > > I believe that you apply it dry, on top of the final fiberglass lay-up. > You smooth it down with a tamper, brush or fingers. It soaks up excess > resin. You remove the peel ply after the glass sets up, to a smooth > finish. > > Is that correct? > > Barry Pote RV9a > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2002
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel
F-821 That should work out fine. I fitted and drilled the fwd. top skin (including the longerons) and then removed it while I did all the detail work between the panel and firewall (engine controls, tach cable, rudder pedals, fuel and vent lines, battery box, etc,., there is lots to do there). When all this was finally done, I removed the inst. panel and riveted the top skin on. No big issues if you keep the need for bucking bar access in mind when you are running wires etc. near where rivets are going to go. My instrument panel is removable with a dozen #8 screws for this purpose. Will get the wings on and all those spar bolts & nuts in place before I put the panel back in. Jim Oke Winnipeg, MB RV-6A (slider - moving parts to airport at last...) ----- Original Message ----- From: "emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel F-821 > > I drilled the forward top skin and panel, fit the canopy already. I > plan on mounting the enging and finishing the panel with equipment and > wiring concurrently. Another local builder has done his -6A slider this > way, with no apparent issues. Seems to be working out fine, but riveting > on that top skin is going to be a challenge. > In fact, I've mounting the canopy, but have yet to mount the tail or set > the wing angle of incidence and drilled the rear spar bolt hole. I > wanted to get the canopy cut and mounted before the weather turned cold. > The other stuff I hope to get done this winter. > > Marty in Brentwood, TN > > From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com> > Subject: RV-List: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage > panel F-821 > > > >I have drilled the flanges that hold the > >panel - but have stopped short of drilling the holes > >along the longerons. > > >I don't remember the order in which I did it. Do you > >also have a 6a slider? > > I am doing the slider. > > Is there anyone out there who drilled the top panel > first and then hung the engine and panel gear? > > Thanks again > Dag > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Polished Sensenich Spinner
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Hi Brian, I have the Sensenich Metal Spinner, and have worked around polished and chrome spinners for awhile. Here's my observations. >Jerry, From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: peel ply
Date: Nov 24, 2002
You got it, Barry. Just make sure you have a little excess resin on the top layer before you put on the peel ply, as it will soak up alot of resin. Also, you don't have to buy the brand "Peel Ply" . It is simply Dacron fabric. You can get it from any fabric store. It is commonly used as liners for coats. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: peel ply > > A one hour review of the archives, led me to new subjects that I will > need to master shortly. But there are still lingering doubts about how > peel ply is used on fiberglass lay ups to get a smooth finish. > > I believe that you apply it dry, on top of the final fiberglass lay-up. > You smooth it down with a tamper, brush or fingers. It soaks up excess > resin. You remove the peel ply after the glass sets up, to a smooth > finish. > > Is that correct? > > Barry Pote RV9a > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: To drill or not to drill top forward fuselage panel F-821
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Further to Jim Oke's response, before you finally install the nose-skin, take lots of close-up photos of every view you can get of the area below it. It sure helps if later you have to find out where a certain wire is routed! I don't know if the design has changed since I built my 6-A, but make sure that the routing of the fuel-tank vent plumbing that per plans goes right over the area where the longeron rivets go is clear! I formed the pipes so that they sit ~1"" below that line to allow bucking-bar access.----------Cheers!!-------Henry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: baffling & cowl
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Just wondering what kind of spacing is best between the aluminum baffling and the cowl for best fit of baffling material. Dave Ford RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: baffling & cowl
Date: Nov 24, 2002
A finger's width is fine. Big finger, little finger, it doesn't really matter. This is an area where there is a wide range of acceptable spacing. Also, there is a fair amount on this subject in the archives. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> Subject: RV-List: baffling & cowl > > Just wondering what kind of spacing is best between the aluminum baffling and the cowl for best fit of baffling material. > > Dave Ford > RV6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Subject: Re: Baffling and Cowl
I have used 1/4" to 1/2" on my RV-4 , O-320 & wood prop. That keeps the rubber from folding over to allow air to flow past . You can use a Sharpie pen laid parallel on the inside cowl to mark the baffle and get about 1/4" clearance. RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Re: baffling & cowl
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Plans call for 3/8" to 1/2". Don Mack don(at)dmack.net www.dmack.net > > Just wondering what kind of spacing is best between the aluminum baffling and the cowl for best fit of baffling material. > > Dave Ford > RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ned Thomas" <315(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: baffling & cowl
Date: Nov 24, 2002
I just saw this discussed on teh video. He said Van's recommends 1/2" of space between the aluminum baffle and the cowl. He made a 1/2" spacer and put it on a marker and reached in thru oil access door and front air inlets to marke the aluminum for cutting.. Ned ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: baffling & cowl > > A finger's width is fine. Big finger, little finger, it doesn't really > matter. This is an area where there is a wide range of acceptable spacing. > > Also, there is a fair amount on this subject in the archives. > > KB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> > To: "rv list" > Subject: RV-List: baffling & cowl > > > > > > Just wondering what kind of spacing is best between the aluminum baffling > and the cowl for best fit of baffling material. > > > > Dave Ford > > RV6 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: peel ply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Barry: If I do not have a lot of excess resin in my final glass layup, I will apply the peel ply just like it is another layer of glass using a bursh and resin to lay it down. It makes a heaver part but there is a lot less finishing. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,215 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: peel ply Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 18:30:37 -0500 A one hour review of the archives, led me to new subjects that I will need to master shortly. But there are still lingering doubts about how peel ply is used on fiberglass lay ups to get a smooth finish. I believe that you apply it dry, on top of the final fiberglass lay-up. You smooth it down with a tamper, brush or fingers. It soaks up excess resin. You remove the peel ply after the glass sets up, to a smooth finish. Is that correct? Barry Pote RV9a The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Jugs
Date: Nov 24, 2002
Well, I got all four jugs off yesterday and there was some definate washboarding and taper at the top of 2 and 4, the low ones. Also noticed that you couldn't see the channels of the chrome up there either... sooooo, I am very happy about my decision to pull them all out of service. Come on UPS. Lets get the show on the road. Anybody ever heard of a thing called roller burnishing. One is suppose to do this to the new rocker bushings, but I can't seem to find a good place to by one. Apparently the roller burnishing tools are all made on the east coast or in India, where ever the heck that is. Would like to buy one local to So Cal. but the internet did not provide a source as of yet. W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: Baffling and Cowl
Date: Nov 24, 2002
> I have used 1/4" to 1/2" on my RV-4 , O-320 & wood prop. > That keeps the rubber from folding over to allow air to flow > past . You can use a Sharpie pen laid parallel on the inside > cowl to mark the baffle > and get about 1/4" clearance. A trick that worked for me to get a nice uniform 1/2" was, once the baffles were trimmed enough for the cowl to go on, using blobs of clay. Put the clay blobs on the baffles and put the cowl on. When you remove the cowl, it will be clear how much to trim. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 229 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2002
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: peel ply
Gary, I'm curious why peel ply makes the part heavier? I thought the purpose was to remove the excess resin from the layup? Jeff Point RV-6 fiberglassing canopy, using peel ply by the mile... Milwaukee WI >Barry: > >If I do not have a lot of excess resin in my final glass layup, I will apply >the peel ply just like it is another layer of glass using a bursh and resin >to lay it down. It makes a heaver part but there is a lot less finishing. > >Gary A. Sobek >"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, >1,215 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA >http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: peel ply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Peel ply is NOT left on. It makes a heaver part as there is more EPOXY in the layup filling in the weave. This does not make for a light composite aircraft when done on an entire compostie airplane but on a non structural part like the layups we do on an RV, the added weight is not much. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,215 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: peel ply Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2002 23:16:21 -0600 Gary, I'm curious why peel ply makes the part heavier? I thought the purpose was to remove the excess resin from the layup? Jeff Point RV-6 fiberglassing canopy, using peel ply by the mile... Milwaukee WI >Barry: > >If I do not have a lot of excess resin in my final glass layup, I will apply >the peel ply just like it is another layer of glass using a bursh and resin >to lay it down. It makes a heaver part but there is a lot less finishing. > >Gary A. Sobek >"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, >1,215 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA >http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: All New List FAQs!
Dear Listers, I got to looking at the Email List FAQs (Frequently Asked Questions) today and realized that they where miserably out of date. I spent a wad of time today completely revising them and adding in documentation on all of the many new features such as the List Browse and Photoshare. Many of the little-known features are documented in there now, too, so even if you're a seasoned List veteran, you might want to give it a read. Never know what you might discover. At the bottom of this message in the Trailer you will find a new link item called "List FAQ" with a URL for this specific List. Just click on it and print it out or read it online. Don't forget that November is the List Fund Raiser month! The "2002 List of Contributors" is just days away and I know you'll want to make sure your name is on it!! Please make your Contribution today to support the continued operation of these List Services! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lucky Macy" <luckymacy(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: elevator counterbalance interference
Date: Nov 25, 2002
My elevator halves don't fit perfectly. The left elevator's counter balance hits the HS skin at the tip of the counterbalance (as if the counterbalance was 1/8 inch too long) and the right elevator's counter balance is not parallel with the HS along its counterbalance. It also seems as if the right counterbalance was about 1/8 inch too long and it tapers in towards the stab at the tip as if the right elevator's outer hinge is closer to the HS than the root hinge. I took the elevators off and double checked that the rod end bearings are 13/16th's out on the center of the bolt hole per plans. I doublechecked that the hinges on the HS were installed correctly. I can sight down the hinge brackets from one end of the HS to the other and they seem to still be in perfect alignment. So something is off a tad somewhere and I'm wondering if it would be OK just to turn the rod end bearings a turn or 2 in or out to make the required minor adjustments or should I be grinding off the counterbalance and HS to make things work out. What's the acceptable thing to do? (un)Lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: Headset Plugs for TR-720 Handheld Radio
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Try Chief Avionics -----Original Message----- From: Bob n' Lu Olds [mailto:oldsfolks(at)aol.com] Subject: RV-List: Headset Plugs for TR-720 Handheld Radio I desperately need two headset plugs for Communications Specialists TR-720 handheld airband radio . Any info appreciated . Bob Olds , RV-4 , N1191 Charleston,Arkansas no not archive RE: RV-List: Headset Plugs for TR-720 Handheld Radio Try Chief Avionics -----Original Message----- From: Bob n' Lu Olds [<A HREF"mailto:oldsfolks(at)aol.com">mailto:oldsfolks(at)aol.com] Subject: RV-List: Headset Plugs for TR-720 Handheld Radio -- RV-List message posted by: Bob n' Lu Olds oldsfolks(at)aol.com I desperately need two headset plugs for Communications Specialists TR-720 handheld airband radio . Any info appreciated . Bob Olds , RV-4 , N1191 Charleston,Arkansas no not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Pol;ished Sensenich Spinner
I had to resort to powder coating to make the finish acceptable. I tried nickel(electroless) and chroming, but the shops all said that the Sensenich spinner surface was to rough. The powder coat process made this look vern nice, cost 65 dollars. I did mine in white to match the airplane. Hundreds of colors to choose from. BTW, there were 10 different whites....stand outside in sunlight to pick your colors from the swatch folder..... From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Pol;ished Sensenich Spinner The spinning process used in manufacturing the Sensenich spinner creates tooling marks on the spinner. They appear as rings around the spinner. I have polished the spinner to a mirror finish, but the marks are still visible. The spinner is smooth and the marks cannot be felt, but are visible. Can these marks be removed with more work, or is this normal? Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)vondane.com>
"vansairforce"
Subject: Overnight hangar in Lincoln, NE...
Date: Nov 25, 2002
I have relatives in Lincoln, NE that I am thinking of visiting and wanted to see if there was a hangar I could keep my RV overnight some weekend... -Bill VonDane RV-8A ~ 76 hours www.vondane.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: elevator counterbalance interference
> >My elevator halves don't fit perfectly. Make rod end adjustments. Make a note in your TO DO log of what you did. Make final adjustment when tuning controls, along with a few hundred other details, before getting signed off. In other words, get on with it. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK flying! PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marc Guay" <marcrv6a(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-6A for Sale
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Day/Night VFR 1998 RV-6A for Sale. US$80K. Total Time Airframe and prop (since new): 200 hours Total Time Engine (since major overhaul): 200 hours Engine: Lycoming IO-360 A1B (200HP) Prop: Hartzell Constant speed Full gyro panel with electronic tach, gmeter, JPI engine scanner, Mode C transponder, MX11 Com, Recording intercom, AmeriKing ELT, full dual control including dual axix electric trim, electric flap, Whelen strobes and more. For information and pictures please contact Marc Guay email Marc_Guay(at)hotmail.com The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Radio Mounting
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Hey guys, I am at that point where I am starting to seriously consisder my instrument panel. I have looked in several books but have not seen the subject of the physical mounting of the radios discussed in any detail. What is the preferred method of mounting the radios? Is .063 angle riveted to the rear of the panel and screwed to the trays adequate? Are the trays long enough that there should be some type of rear support? If rear support is needed, how is it arranged? If you support it off the structure in the rear somewhere, how do you remove the panel for maintenance? Does anyone have any pictures on their websites? Does anyone have any JPEGs that they can email? Is there a website out there that gives detailed mounting instructions? I am building a RV-8A if that makes any difference. Vince Welch Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marc Guay" <marcrv6a(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-6A for Sale
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Day/Night VFR 1998 RV-6A for Sale. US$80K. Total Time Airframe and prop (since new): 200 hours Total Time Engine (since major overhaul): 200 hours Engine: Lycoming IO-360 A1B (200HP) Prop: Hartzell Constant speed Full gyro panel with electronic tach, gmeter, JPI engine scanner, Mode C transponder, MX11 Com, Recording intercom, AmeriKing ELT, full dual control including dual axix electric trim, electric flap, Whelen strobes and more. For information and pictures please contact Marc Guay email Marc_Guay(at)hotmail.com STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Baffling and Cowl
Date: Nov 25, 2002
I used 1/2" spacing. That is the highest figure given in the plans. I selected that clearance, not knowing what my engine's "wet dog shake" would be on start-up. It will vary depending on resiliency of the engine mounts, and the mass of the prop. I used a piece of 1/4" thk x 1/2" wide x~ 1 1/2" lg scrap aluminum to make a scriber. I rounded an end of it and 1/2" down I drilled a .032 hole (PC board drill ) and inserted the shank of another (blunt) drill sharpened to a point secured with a drop of Super-glue. Works great when inserted through the cooling snouts, scribing the line on the baffle, sliding along the cowl. Cheers!!------Henry Hore. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)wmca.net>
Subject: static system, strobe power supply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
I am building an RV7A-QB...I was wondering about how/where to route the static line from the back to the front...the plans are pretty unclear forward of the baggage area bulkhead. What are others doing?? The other forward bulkheads are not predrilled for anything and I am leery of drilling a hole where I may regret it later... Also, I am installing a 3-light Whelen strobe system and was wondering about location of the power supply. And are others running the strobe wiring to the tail strobe inside conduit? Bob Brown RV7A - Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "I-Blackler, Wayne R" <wayne.blackler(at)boeing.com>
rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RE: AeroElectric-List: Radio Mounting
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Vince and list, http://www.rv-8.com/Panel.htm is a pretty good one I believe. Picture is shown about half way down the page. I'll be doing mine similarly, with the addition of aluminium sheet to tie the racks together on each side (probably just not shown in this particular picture). I checked out the back of a few Avionics panel shops at OSH, and they did it likewise. Might be worth a calculation or two to see what load is involved, and more importantly, what loads you envisage your panel components to experience for the flying you plan on doing. If you plan on aerobatics (not sure from your email), you will want to consider aft mounting, and perhaps what you take with you on an aerobatic flight if you plan on doing so anyway.. RV-8.com seems to be a pretty good website all round in my opinion. Great quality workmanship with equally great close-up high quality pictures with explanations. Tells a thousand words... Cheers Wayne Blackler IO-360 Long EZ, 95% done Seattle, USA -----Original Message----- From: Vincent Welch [mailto:welchvincent(at)hotmail.com] Subject: AeroElectric-List: Radio Mounting --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Vincent Welch" Hey guys, I am at that point where I am starting to seriously consisder my instrument panel. I have looked in several books but have not seen the subject of the physical mounting of the radios discussed in any detail. What is the preferred method of mounting the radios? Is .063 angle riveted to the rear of the panel and screwed to the trays adequate? Are the trays long enough that there should be some type of rear support? If rear support is needed, how is it arranged? If you support it off the structure in the rear somewhere, how do you remove the panel for maintenance? Does anyone have any pictures on their websites? Does anyone have any JPEGs that they can email? Is there a website out there that gives detailed mounting instructions? I am building a RV-8A if that makes any difference. Vince Welch Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail http://www.matronics.com/browselist/aeroelectric-list http://www.matronics.com/FAQs/AeroElectric-List.FAQ.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: static system, strobe power supply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
On my RV6 I had made clearance between the corner of my F605 and the side skin by grinding off part of the corner to route my static line. I filled the area around it with RTV to prevent chaffing. On F604 I drilled holes and put in nylon bushings to route through that area. I mounted my 3 light Whelan power supply on the back of my battery case. I installed plate nuts on the inside of the battery case and screwed the PS to it. Do you need a tail strobe if you are installing a 3 light system? I assume by 3 light you mean a red/green position light, strobe and white position light on each wingtip. Fran Malczynski RV6 - N594EF (flight testing) Olcott, NY -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Karen and Robert Brown Subject: RV-List: static system, strobe power supply I am building an RV7A-QB...I was wondering about how/where to route the static line from the back to the front...the plans are pretty unclear forward of the baggage area bulkhead. What are others doing?? The other forward bulkheads are not predrilled for anything and I am leery of drilling a hole where I may regret it later... Also, I am installing a 3-light Whelen strobe system and was wondering about location of the power supply. And are others running the strobe wiring to the tail strobe inside conduit? Bob Brown RV7A - Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: static system, strobe power supply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
I ran it through each bulkhead, under the floor pans, then through a rectangular hole I cut where the 2 spars meet. All my wires and static passed through this hole. I've seen alot of Whelen power supplies mounted in the tail cone behind the elevator bellrank. Wire doesn't need to be going through conduit, just be sure it is secured and out of the way of any control tubes! Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)wmca.net> Subject: RV-List: static system, strobe power supply > > I am building an RV7A-QB...I was wondering about how/where to route the static line from the back to the front...the plans are pretty unclear forward of the baggage area bulkhead. What are others doing?? The other forward bulkheads are not predrilled for anything and I am leery of drilling a hole where I may regret it later... > > Also, I am installing a 3-light Whelen strobe system and was wondering about location of the power supply. And are others running the strobe wiring to the tail strobe inside conduit? > > Bob Brown > RV7A - Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Radio Mounting
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Vince, See: http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing/panel2.htm This is how I mounted my stack. By tying all of the units together, you get the support of all the units mounted to the panel. Worked great. No support was needed Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RV-List: Radio Mounting > > > Hey guys, > > I am at that point where I am starting to seriously consisder my instrument > panel. I have looked in several books but have not seen the subject of the > physical mounting of the radios discussed in any detail. What is the > preferred method of mounting the radios? Is .063 angle riveted to the rear > of the panel and screwed to the trays adequate? Are the trays long enough > that there should be some type of rear support? If rear support is needed, > how is it arranged? If you support it off the structure in the rear > somewhere, how do you remove the panel for maintenance? Does anyone have > any pictures on their websites? Does anyone have any JPEGs that they can > email? Is there a website out there that gives detailed mounting > instructions? I am building a RV-8A if that makes any difference. > > Vince Welch > > > Add photos to your e-mail with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail > > > _-> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Polishing Spinner
Date: Nov 26, 2002
In order to make the rings disappear, you need to start with something like 400 or 600 grit on a block. Then start all over again with the polishing. Block sanding will allow you to take the tops off the ridges. Then once you have finished the 600 wet, you can go to a coarse polishing compound, then finer, then. . . Remember that as you go finer, all you are doing is removing the scratches that the previous level of coarseness left. If you are working something and you can not remove an imperfection, you need to go COARSER, not finer. Learned this all by trial and error. I've ended up with many shiny pieces of metal with the original blemish still intact. Don Mei p.s. you can buy a 3/4 hp polishing wheel on harbor freight for like $60. The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Everett" <llevt(at)speedfactory.com>
Subject: H.S. Spacers
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Is it ok to make the H.S. 2x1x1/8 spacers out of 2024-T4 instead of 2024-T3? The plans call for T3 but all I have in my scrap heap is 4T. Thanks, Larry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Gear Leg Fairing - Piano Hinge
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Listers: I am finishing the gear leg fairings. A question not covered in the archives by my search. How do you know where to place the piano hinge on the rear of the fairing. DWG C3 shows a cross section of the leg. It appears to show the big hinge too close to the rear - leaving a gap. I am trying to locate the hinge fairly forward so that the fairings would be "pulled together" like a pressure recovery system. Tapered, of course. I don't want it too far forward as the stress of the pressure may induce cracking. How have others found the sweet spot?? Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop Finish Kit 85% Complete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Vertical Card Compass?
Does anybody make a vertical card compass that fits in a standard 3" instrument hole? All I found at Aircraft Spruce were 2" cards to mount someplace other than the panel. Dan DeNeal trying to fill an empty spot http://mailplus.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Polishing Spinner
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Another local builder(Ned Thomas) shared some past experience on the topic and I tried it. I am about done buffing and the spinner looks like chrome and the lines are almost non existent. I went with automotive paint store 3M 400, 600, 1500 grits and changed sanding directions between grits. Took close to 5 hours of wet sanding, but results are excellent. The buffing goes much faster and produces that mirror shine. A lot of work, but since I am building a slow-build kit....I must continue to do things the slow way. Thanks for the input, Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RV-List: Polishing Spinner > > In order to make the rings disappear, you need to start with something like > 400 or 600 grit on a block. Then start all over again with the polishing. > Block sanding will allow you to take the tops off the ridges. Then once you > have finished the 600 wet, you can go to a coarse polishing compound, then > finer, then. . . > > Remember that as you go finer, all you are doing is removing the scratches > that the previous level of coarseness left. If you are working something > and you can not remove an imperfection, you need to go COARSER, not finer. > > Learned this all by trial and error. I've ended up with many shiny pieces > of metal with the original blemish still intact. > > Don Mei > p.s. you can buy a 3/4 hp polishing wheel on harbor freight for like $60. > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Fairing - Piano Hinge
Date: Nov 26, 2002
> >Listers: I am finishing the gear leg fairings. A question not covered in >the archives by my search. How do you know where to place the piano hinge >on the rear of the fairing. DWG C3 shows a cross section of the leg. It >appears to show the big hinge too close to the rear - leaving a gap. I am >trying to locate the hinge fairly forward so that the fairings would be >"pulled together" like a pressure recovery system. Tapered, of course. I >don't want it too far forward as the stress of the pressure may induce >cracking. How have others found the sweet spot?? >Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop > Finish Kit 85% Complete I tried to achieve the "pressure recovery" shape as you stated and did so by squeezing the fairing uniformly with clamps along the gap. I wanted a slight preload on the hingepin so they would be snug to insert, but not impossibly so. Just a few pounds of hand squeeze is enough to do the job. You certainly don't want to have to smash the thing together just to get the pins inserted, as that would likely lead to rivets pulling through over time. If it feels OK, it probably is. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD 3yrs of RV grins MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE* http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Polishing Spinner(correction)
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Correction on the grits that I listed. Should have been 3M 400, 800, 1500. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Polishing Spinner > > Another local builder(Ned Thomas) shared some past experience on the topic > and I tried it. I am about done buffing and the spinner looks like chrome > and the lines are almost non existent. I went with automotive paint store > 3M 400, 600, 1500 grits and changed sanding directions between grits. Took > close to 5 hours of wet sanding, but results are excellent. The buffing > goes much faster and produces that mirror shine. > > A lot of work, but since I am building a slow-build kit....I must continue > to do things the slow way. > > Thanks for the input, > Jerry Calvert > Edmond Ok > RV6 N296JC(res) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Polishing Spinner > > > > > > In order to make the rings disappear, you need to start with something > like > > 400 or 600 grit on a block. Then start all over again with the polishing. > > Block sanding will allow you to take the tops off the ridges. Then once > you > > have finished the 600 wet, you can go to a coarse polishing compound, then > > finer, then. . . > > > > Remember that as you go finer, all you are doing is removing the scratches > > that the previous level of coarseness left. If you are working something > > and you can not remove an imperfection, you need to go COARSER, not finer. > > > > Learned this all by trial and error. I've ended up with many shiny pieces > > of metal with the original blemish still intact. > > > > Don Mei > > p.s. you can buy a 3/4 hp polishing wheel on harbor freight for like $60. > > > > > > The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE* > > http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: static system, strobe power supply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Bob, Here's where I mounted the strobe power supply: http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/fuse-1.html Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html -----Original Message----- I am installing a 3-light Whelen strobe system and was wondering about location of the power supply. And are others running the strobe wiring to the tail strobe inside conduit? --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Subject: Gear leg fairing - piano hinge
I clamped the trailing edges together and slipped the piano hinge in place just very lightly pushed into tha taper . You're right - you want the trailing edges together when pinned in place. RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Polishing proceedure
Date: Nov 25, 2002
A re-listing of a recent list email, -edited and re-titled A little about polishing: The trick about polishing most materials is to start with a sandpaper grit that is not quite as course as the surface you want to polish. The idea is to scratch off the unwanted surface roughness while avoiding making scratches that the next finer grit cannot easily remove. The term "wet and dry" refers to a type of sandpaper that can be immersed in water and or other liquids, lacquer thinners, solvents, etc.while working with it. The water et. al. serves both as a lubricant and keeps the grit from loading up Sandpaper grits start at something like 40 grit forty sharp crushed rock bits per square inch! and go down to a fineness of at least about 2000 grit. The numbers refer to grit particles per square inch. (don't try to imagine the texture of number one grit) :-)! After a series of ever finer sandpaper grits we move on to polishing compounds. Again there are a series of compound grits that will eventually bring up a shine as bright or brighter than polished nickel chrome. Most of these grits are carried in a lubricating past or liquid that is designed to provide the desired results. Often the liquids in the specifically named polishes, i.e..Silvo and Brasso, have chemicals in them that are mildly corrosive to the metal. These are meant to work at the molecular level and thusly aid in obtaining that sought after very bright shine. Jewelers rouge is one among the finer group of compounds that comes in a stick form. It and most polishing compounds in stick form can be applied to a buffing wheel or used on a soft cloth with some elbow grease. Different materials i.e. stainless steel, brass, aluminum, plastics or what have you will require slow to fast buffing wheel speeds and different pressures while buffing. For instance starting with a flat side of a piece of rough sand cast aluminum fitting: A double bastard file to cut down the roughness. A finer file to cut away the roughness left by the double bastard file. 220 sandpaper to cut away the remaining fine file marks. 320 sandpaper to cut away the 220... 400 grit, then 600 grit and so on past 2000 grit and onto the polishing compounds. Depending upon the material at hand, steel, brass, copper, plastics etc. and the desired finish you can sometimes skip one or more steps. Often people impatiently skip a step or steps and end up working harder and longer than actually needed. lessons form the boyhood years that by now probably are outdated a bit. The sparkle of sunlight off those varnished brass hull fittings for the boat sure made me proud though. This is stuff that most of you know, but, just in case some don't. Jim in Kelowna ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: static system, strobe power supply
Date: Nov 25, 2002
Hi Bob, I'm jealous of your kit! Anyway, I ran all my static lines, wiring, etc.. along and under the longeron, with a hole drilled through the bulkheads with snap bushings in place. I did this on both sides, and it really makes it easy. The staic line comes out of the deck rails right in my panel ready to be hooked up. Same with the wiring. I installed the ELT remote right in the deck rail, and ran the wire from there under the 605 bulkhead and down the electric flap arm and over to the ELT which I have mounted behind the pax seat. I've been able to hide all my wires, etc.. under the deck rails. Hope this helps, Stein Bruch RV6, Minneapolis, Flying. Brown" I am building an RV7A-QB...I was wondering about how/where to route the static line from the back to the front...the plans are pretty unclear forward of the baggage area bulkhead. What are others doing?? The other forward bulkheads are not predrilled for anything and I am leery of drilling a hole where I may regret it later... Also, I am installing a 3-light Whelen strobe system and was wondering about location of the power supply. And are others running the strobe wiring to the tail strobe inside conduit? Bob Brown RV7A - Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett7(at)attbi.com>
Subject: wiring handheld radio into intercomm
Date: Nov 10, 2002
I would like to wire my handheld radio into the intercomm system so that I have a 2nd radio. The intercomm is a Flightcom 403 from Van's and the handheld is a Japan Radio JHP-520. The problem is that there is no wiring information with the handheld. I was able to figure out most of the wiring for the handheld by reverse engineering the headset adapter. The problem comes with the push-to-talk. The headset adapter for the handheld assumes, reasonably enough, that you have a detachable PTT switch. In this arrangement, PTT switch connects or disconnects the mike from the radio. In other words, if you just plugged the mike into the handheld without the PTT switch, the radio would try to transmit all the time. This doesn't really work for an intercomm situation because you want to be able to talk over the intercomm through the mike all the time, but you only want to trigger the handheld when you push the PTT switch. I probably haven't explained that very well. Anyway, what I am looking for is how to wire the mike that goes into the handheld so that there is a PTT line as well as the mike audio input. I seem to have the audio input working, but the radio stays in transmit mode all the time. How do I trigger the transmit using a PTT line? Thanks! Randy Garrett RV-6A -- 41 hours TT ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2002
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: WLAS
Dear Listers, There are only a few days left until the November List of Contributors. I thought I'd take another opportunity to pass along some of the really nice things people have been saying recently about the Lists and how much they mean to them. If you receive value from the Lists in the form of ideas, assistance, comradery, moral support, inspiration, or just plain 'ol good entertainment, then won't take a moment to make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of them? Secure List Contribution Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution What does the List mean to you? Here's what some of your fellow contributing List members have said... ------------------------- What Listers Are Saying ------------------------- Great service for aviation types like me. Larry H Best investment I've made. Harley B I've been on this list since around 1996 and used it to help me finish my RV-6A three years ago. I'm still here because I still learn from it and use it to help others like me who may be where nobody else is building a RV. Thanks for your service to our community. It's appreciated. Jim S [List] people are a great break away from politics, religion and other sordid subjects. Robert B This site is a great confidence builder for the amateur builder. Gene L Great service! Barry P Very handy list to have, a good place for a beginner to get great answers from those who already experienced it. ...sure enjoy reading it. Joel R ...valuable service! Chris & Indira K This is the better than any morning paper - the best and most frequent service that I use on the Internet. Great job! This will make building the RV doable for me. Pete E I enjoy all of the ideas, suggestions and humor that comes with this list. I don't think I could build my RV4 with out everyone's help. Ross S GRRRRRRRRRRRREAT! James W The list is a great source of information, motivation, entertainment, passionate debate, and light-hearted back slapping. I wouldn't be without it. Roger H ...would still be looking for plans to hook-up s-tec auto pilot without your service! David S The new [digest] format is good. Graham S Great information you can't get anywhere else. Lots of nice people who have "Been there...done that." George D My normal morning routine: 1 Kiss "the princess" 2 Good cup of coffee 3 Log onto "List" A wonderful means of exchanging ideas, asking questions, gathering information, and sharing experiences. Robert G Great lists. Not only are the lists professionally and efficiently managed, but the *people* on the lists are very helpful, friendly and fun to chat with. Thank you for this wonderful resource. Ihab A Thanks a million, well maybe not a million!!! (: Ken H I need this fix every morning or I get grumpy... Wayne P Very useful lists Paul E This communication medium that you created, nurtured and continue to maintain is the best thing since AN rivets! Jim J The information I gleaned off the list has always been helpful. Kenneth B I've been a subscriber to varied lists for several years now. The knowledge provided has been extremely useful throughout. David P Enjoy everyone's input even though I am not a builder...just a flyer. Douglas P Just laughin' and a scratchin' Dennis N It is a real asset and good for comic relief. Ross S I can't build my plane without your service! Kent H Great info on the lists! Wesley H I'm very new to the List but have already benefited greatly. Jim S The "List" has been my best source for information concerning my aviation projects. Besides, it also brings a bunch of people together to share their interests and knowledge. Thanks for providing a state of the art, easy to use resource tool. David A I have saved a lot of grief and dollars from referencing this site. It is truly an extension of Van's product support. Joseph C Terrific asset this List is to the builder! Scott J Great service! Tony B Look forward to the list each and every day. John B I could not cope up here in this lonely island without the help of the List and all the wonderful helpful people that have the experience of aircraft building and flying for fun. Johann J This list is part of my daily routine. I'm addicted. Terry D Great forum! John H This list is my main interest in the Internet. George R Great list. The best out there on any subject. Kevin H Been on the list since 1998 and I still look forward to reading the list every day. A most valuable tool. I have picked up many useful tips during the construction of my RV-4. Jerry I Thanks for all of your hard work on the lists. It is one of the reasons I bought a CJ-6A. Without the Yak-list, I believe it would have been much more difficult to get all the information that I need for safe operation and maintenance of this fine aircraft. David L The List has been an amazing source of useful information. I consider it one of my best builder tools. Gunter M An excellent channel of information. I have gained a wealth of knowledge on both building and flying Kolb aircraft. Jim B Enjoy the wealth of information that is shared. Richard N Fine service. Beauford T [The] List is the first stop of the day. Made lot of friends from it. Orie S The information I gleaned off the List has always been helpful. Kenneth B Over the 3+ years that I have been building, I check it several times each day. I have learned a lot of very useful tips that have helped me in my building. Richard D Not only is it worth a contribution for the info gleaned from it but the personalities alone are pure entertainment! Stephen F This is great stuff!!! Entertaining, too!! Fast answers from those who really know... Bob R I am building an RV-9A and have received help from the lists and occasionally been able to give help to others. Alden Van W This list has saved me countless hours of work and worry already, and I'm only halfway there! Undoubtedly the most important aid I have yet found in this sometimes intimidating process of building an aircraft. Paul H I've been a member since '96 and have learned so much from the vast knowledge of the listers. Gary Z Outstanding List, exceptionally maintained. David S Thanks for all the improvements you've made this year. The Photoshare feature definitely proves "one picture is worth a thousand words". Richard H I finished my RV6A this year. It is a much better airplane because of the help I found on the RV and Aeroelectric Lists. Dale W Can't imagine building without the list. Larry H The list continues to be a great resource of information and advice. Jeff O ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Vertical Card Compass?
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Don't know about a 3" one, but you can mount the 2" ones in a hole. If you already a have a 3" hole cut, you could make an adapter to mount the 2" one inside. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan DeNeal" <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Vertical Card Compass? > > Does anybody make a vertical card compass that fits in > a standard 3" instrument hole? All I found at Aircraft > Spruce were 2" cards to mount someplace other than the > panel. > > Dan DeNeal > trying to fill an empty spot > > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: wiring handheld radio into intercomm
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Not sure about your installation there, sounds a little confusing. But, the way a "normal" PTT works is you simply tie one of the pins of the the barrel jack on the mic audio plug to the barrel ground on the jack and put a switch between. Does that make sense? Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett7(at)attbi.com> Subject: RV-List: wiring handheld radio into intercomm > > I would like to wire my handheld radio into the intercomm system so that I > have a 2nd radio. The intercomm is a Flightcom 403 from Van's and the > handheld is a Japan Radio JHP-520. The problem is that there is no wiring > information with the handheld. I was able to figure out most of the wiring > for the handheld by reverse engineering the headset adapter. The problem > comes with the push-to-talk. The headset adapter for the handheld assumes, > reasonably enough, that you have a detachable PTT switch. In this > arrangement, PTT switch connects or disconnects the mike from the radio. In > other words, if you just plugged the mike into the handheld without the PTT > switch, the radio would try to transmit all the time. This doesn't really > work for an intercomm situation because you want to be able to talk over the > intercomm through the mike all the time, but you only want to trigger the > handheld when you push the PTT switch. I probably haven't explained that > very well. > > Anyway, what I am looking for is how to wire the mike that goes into the > handheld so that there is a PTT line as well as the mike audio input. I > seem to have the audio input working, but the radio stays in transmit mode > all the time. How do I trigger the transmit using a PTT line? > > Thanks! > > Randy Garrett > RV-6A -- 41 hours TT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Subject: RE: Throttle/Prop Co-ordination
List: Can you tell me the proper sequence to reduce power from idle settings with a constant speed prop. Do you pull the prop back to idle first or the power back to idle first, etc???? Len Leggette RV-8A N901LL (res) Greensboro, N.C. 12 hours !! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Throttle/Prop Co-ordination
Hi Len, The recommended procedures for handling the prop settings that I learned many years ago are: Takeoff - max RPM First power reduction (or any power reduction) - reduce manifold pressure first, then prop. (This is to avoid excessive cylinder pressures by reducing RPM with full or high throttle settings.) For landing preparation - max RPM setting in case of wave off and go-around. Shutdown - no reason to change prop setting from max RPM when shutting down. Throttle to idle and mixture to idle cutoff. Hope this answers your questions. Regards, Richard Dudley -6A FWF Lenleg(at)aol.com wrote: > > > List: > > Can you tell me the proper sequence to reduce power from idle settings with a > constant speed prop. Do you pull the prop back to idle first or the power > back to idle first, etc???? > > Len Leggette RV-8A > N901LL (res) > Greensboro, N.C. > 12 hours !! > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Krhooper(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Subject: Re: RE: Throttle/Prop Co-ordination
Reduce with throttle first, increasewith prop first ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Eric Greindl <Eric.Greindl@mt-propeller.com>
Subject: RE: Throttle/Prop Co-ordination
Date: Nov 26, 2002
When you pull the throttle back to idle, the constant speed propeller itself changes the blade angle back into fine pitch position automatically, so power back into idle first, then prop lever back into high RPM (take-off) position. Michael Muehlbauer MT-Propeller Entwicklung GmbH > -----Ursprungliche Nachricht----- > Von: Lenleg(at)aol.com [SMTP:Lenleg(at)aol.com] > Gesendet am: Dienstag, 26. November 2002 15:15 > An: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Betreff: RV-List: RE: Throttle/Prop Co-ordination > > > List: > > Can you tell me the proper sequence to reduce power from idle settings with a > constant speed prop. Do you pull the prop back to idle first or the power > back to idle first, etc???? > > Len Leggette RV-8A > N901LL (res) > Greensboro, N.C. > 12 hours !! > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: H.S. Spacers
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Yep, it's ok. >From: "Larry Everett" <llevt(at)speedfactory.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: H.S. Spacers >Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2002 21:10:38 -0500 > > >Is it ok to make the H.S. 2x1x1/8 spacers out of 2024-T4 instead of >2024-T3? The plans call for T3 but all I have in my scrap heap is 4T. > >Thanks, Larry > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: John Allen <fliier(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Polishing Sensenich Spinner
I took my Sensenich spinner to a metal polish shop and they did it for less than $50. It looks like chrome. John Allen RV6A --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Polishing Sensenich Spinner
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Have heard that there are places that can do it for $50 to $60. This is a very good option if available. I easily spent $40 for sand paper, buffs, and compound. I plan on polishing some other parts too, so I bought the supplies. I don't know if the pros can buff out the manufacturing rings with the commercial equipment, but my little buffer wouldn't. Spent mucho time sanding, but results are the smooth chrome mirror look which was what I was wanting. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC(res) ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Allen" <fliier(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Polishing Sensenich Spinner > > > I took my Sensenich spinner to a metal polish shop and they did it for less than $50. It looks like chrome. > > John Allen > > RV6A > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Subject: Static system / Piper pitot probe question
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Guys, is anyone successfully using a Piper pitot/static mast on an RV-8/A with good results for the static system? I have this setup and am not flying yet but have heard a few builders say they had to switch to the static ports on the aft fuse to get correct readings. I'm thinking it would be easier to do it now instead of waiting until I'm painted and flying to add the static ports.... And on a related note, are you folks having good success with the flush static ports sold by Cleveland Tools or do I need the less-sexy but functional-and-cheap protruding pop rivet sold by Vans to get accurate readings? Thanks as always for the endless wisdom... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D sanding fiberglass and lovin' that good ol' itchy feelin'... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Fogerson" <rickf(at)velocitus.net>
Subject: Naca vent in place of cowl snout
Date: Nov 26, 2002
I would like to eliminate the engine air snout on the bottom of the cowl. The engine I have ordered from aerosport power will have fuel injection with the air intake mounted in the horizontal position. Is there any reason a NACA vent lined up with the F.I. on the lower front of the cowl would not adequately supply air for the engine. What size, 2 inch or larger? Maybe a course screen to keep out bugs, etc. I plan to change oil at 25 hour intervals and operate only from paved runways so I don't consider an air filter as all that necessary. Thanks for your thoughts, Rick Fogerson RV3 fuselage Boise, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Fogerson" <rickf(at)velocitus.net>
Subject: Tail wheel bronze thrust washer source
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Does anyone know where to get a bronze thrust washer. The RV 3 plans call for a 1/2 inch ID thrust washer on top of the tail wheel yoke where it mounts to the tail spring. Van's doesn't have them and doesn't know where to get them???? Rick Fogerson RV3 fuselage Boise, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: Chris <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list
Subject: luxury items
I have been reading a lot of messages lately about what I consider luxury items some of which I would never consider but all the talk about certain ones has got me questioning my reasoning for not wanting some and wanting others. So I am going to list a few of these "luxury" items and would like everyone's input on why they plan on putting any particular item in their plane and not another. I guess a lot of it comes down to what you want to do with your plane but I am still curious in other peoples thought process on these items. Basic IFR panel. Full IFR panel. Redundant IFR Panel. Constant Speed Prop. "FULL" engine instrumentation EGT CHT(on all cylinders) CarbT OAT . . . . . Panel mount moving map GPS 1 2 or 3 axis Autopilot. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Naca vent in place of cowl snout
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Richard: It's not so much junk ingested on take-offs and landings, although that has to be considered,- its what comes in, in flight! During the past Summer there were days that my 6-A was plastered with mashed butterflies, moths, dragon-flies, other bugs ,you name it, and although I haven't removed the snout (yet) to fully inspect and clean the filter element, looking in from the front I could see the odd insect mashed in the filter element mesh. I know of a case where a RV pilot found a dead bird in there! Not a happy thought if that had gone into the engine!!!! A filter is a must!! Cheers!------Henry Hore--RV6-A, C-GELS ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel bronze thrust washer source
Richard Fogerson wrote: > > Does anyone know where to get a bronze thrust washer. The RV 3 plans call for a 1/2 inch ID thrust washer on top of the tail wheel yoke where it mounts to the tail spring. Van's doesn't have them and doesn't know where to get them???? > > Rick Fogerson > RV3 fuselage > Boise, ID > Try a bearing shop. Dont mention airplane. Just tell them the size and they will probably have it. Also go to McMaster-Carr and see what they have.. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Tail wheel bronze thrust washer source
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Hello Richard, One of the local industrial suppliers in my town is Acklands Granger. Their catalog is 1760 pages thick. On page 970 they list Boston Gear http://www.bostongear.com/ "STEEL" thrust washers in various sizes. There are 5 different 1/2" ID. T.W.s of various dimentions on the page. An email to either of them might get you on the right track. Roller and ball thrust bearings seem to be replacing the thrust washers these days. I think that Eagle Hardware or some similar Hardware chain outlet might have them in in their tilt out racks. You can get a machine shop to make one out of oilite (cintered bronze impregnated with lubricant). A friend with a lathe would be an asset in this case.. Make a call to a machine shop, they might have a supplier to provide what you need. A machine shop could make a half a dozen in the time it takes to set up to make them. Good hunting, Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Fogerson" <rickf(at)velocitus.net> Subject: RV-List: Tail wheel bronze thrust washer source > > Does anyone know where to get a bronze thrust washer. The RV 3 plans call for a 1/2 inch ID thrust washer on top of the tail wheel yoke where it mounts to the tail spring. Van's doesn't have them and doesn't know where to get them???? > > Rick Fogerson > RV3 fuselage > Boise, ID > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)mcleodusa.net>
Subject: Re: Polishing Sensenich Spinner
Jerry Calvert wrote: > > Have heard that there are places that can do it for $50 to $60. This is a > very good option if available. I easily spent $40 for sand paper, buffs, > and compound. I plan on polishing some other parts too, so I bought the > supplies. > > I don't know if the pros can buff out the manufacturing rings with the > commercial equipment, but my little buffer wouldn't. Spent mucho time > sanding, but results are the smooth chrome mirror look which was what I was > wanting. > > Jerry Calvert > Edmond Ok > RV6 N296JC(res) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Allen" <fliier(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Polishing Sensenich Spinner > > > > > > > I took my Sensenich spinner to a metal polish shop and they did it for > less than $50. It looks like chrome. > > > > John Allen > > > > RV6A > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > In My Pitts spinner, I took out the spinning rings with a wood rasp and a coarse auto body file. I rasped across the rings until they were gone. I layed it down with dome up and just started filing away. This removes the high spots. This was 29 years ago but as I remember, it took a morning to get them all worked out. Then I took an orbital sander and started going all over it until it looked like it was finely etched, which it was. ----cleaned with laquer thinner, primed and painted it. It is still like it was the day it was painted. Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Bibb" <richard.bibb(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: luxury items
Date: Nov 26, 2002
My opinions inserted below > Basic IFR panel. - whatever floats your boat but these are not great IFR platforms. I would like a wing leveler autopilot with a turn coordinator for those "oops I'm stuck on top and need a way to get down" scenarios. > Full IFR panel. see above. > Redundant IFR Panel. - how are you going to carry this much stuff in an RV I have no idea. > Constant Speed Prop - if you have the bucks and the engine for it this is the best solution to the prop question. > "FULL" engine instrumentation EGT CHT(on all cylinders) - Full EGT on all cylinders is a must with an injected engine if you want to lean it without running the risk of burning up a valve. It is overkill for a carburated engine INHO. CarbT OAT . . .OAT is nice for measuring TAS. Carb Temp is overkill. Lycomings are not very prone to carburator ice and you should not need a guage to detect it. > . . > Panel mount moving map GPS - the ultimate in situatoinal awareness but a "panel mounted" portable is a heck of a lot more cost effective and just as good for VFR. IFR certified GPS is great for use in IFR envirnoment but IMHO RVs are best as VFR platforms. > 1 2 or 3 axis Autopilot. - winge leveler would be nice for Cross Country and to have as emergency escape if caught on top. Opinions are mine alone and are based on 160 hours in an RV-4 VFR with a fair amount of Cross Country time some over 1,000 miles. Also, 300 hours of Mooney time most in IFR cross country environment with three axis autopilot and IFR GPS. Other will feel differnetly and I'm not here to debate just add my opinion. Richard Bibb Mooney N212WD T-6G N3518G RV-4 N144KT (in rebuild - ready to mount the wings) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Naca vent in place of cowl snout
It is certainly possible, Glasairs have been using a large NACA scoop as an induction intake for a long time. My understanding is that they are considered to be higher drag than a scoop. If you like I could measure the one on my neighbor's Glasair cowl and give you the dimensions. Jeff Point RV-6 still sanding/filling/etc canopy. I don't know how anyone builds an entire airplane out of this crap. Milwaukee WI >I would like to eliminate the engine air snout on the bottom of the cowl. The engine I have ordered from aerosport power will have fuel injection with the air intake mounted in the horizontal position. Is there any reason a NACA vent lined up with the F.I. on the lower front of the cowl would not adequately supply air for the engine. What size, 2 inch or larger? Maybe a course screen to keep out bugs, etc. I plan to change oil at 25 hour intervals and operate only from paved runways so I don't consider an air filter as all that necessary. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MeangreenRV4(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2002
Subject: Re: luxury items
In a message dated 11/26/2002 1:19:51 PM Pacific Standard Time, chrisw3(at)cox.net writes: > > I have been reading a lot of messages lately about what I consider > luxury items some of which I would never consider but all the talk about > certain ones has got me questioning my reasoning for not wanting some > and wanting others. So I am going to list a few of these "luxury" items > and would like everyone's input on why they plan on putting any > particular item in their plane and not another. I guess a lot of it > comes down to what you want to do with your plane but I am still curious > in other peoples thought process on these items. > > Basic IFR panel. > Full IFR panel. > Redundant IFR Panel. > Constant Speed Prop. > "FULL" engine instrumentation EGT CHT(on all cylinders) CarbT OAT . . . > . . > Panel mount moving map GPS > 1 2 or 3 axis Autopilot. > > Some of this stuff can be considered luxury items but a few items on your list are necessity's 1.Constant Speed Prop .....this is a good thing to have especially if you have some horsepower to work with. 2."FULL" engine instrumentation EGT CHT(on all cylinders) "A Must" It is so easy to destroy cylinders without it. 3. Panel mount moving map GPS...If you ever have used one you would never use anything else. This is my opinion and your all intitled to it Tim Barnes Meangreen RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: luxury items
Date: Nov 26, 2002
I agree. I don't think full EGT/CHT is a luxury. It really helps determine potential problems, and makes engine problem diagnosis much easier. The cost delta more than outweighs the benefit. Carb temp? Scrap it. Good IFR training will let you know if you are going to have carb ice. I would stick with the minimum to get you through the clouds. As mentioned before, this isn't the best IFR ship, but it can get you out of a cloud layer (or into one) pretty well. I would go with the following for a basic IFR package: Basic VFR instruments plus: Turn corridinator and gyros VOR/LOC/GS Head One Nav/COM with GS Clock/Timer (has to be installed to be legal) Optional IFR options to consider: (Items that would be real nice, but not a necessity for occasional IFR flight) Additional Nav/Com Additional VOR head Audio panel w/Marker Beacon Wing leveler/single axis (navaid, etc) ADF (Just kidding, seeing if you are paying attention) Pitot Heat You can use your handheld or panel mount GPS for DME, so skip that $2000 option. Next level IFR that would be really, really cool, but unnecessary IMHO unless you are made of money. Panel mount IFR GPS/COMM (ie. Garmin 430/530) Slaved to external CDI Dual Axis autopilot coupled to GPS for flying holding patterns and approaches DME HSI Coupled to VOR and GPS Just my opinions, and you are all entitled to them... Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2002
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: luxury items
Chris: A lot of the stuff on your list I probably couldn't afford even if I wanted it, but since I don't know your financial pain threashold I'll ignore that in my answers and assume cost isn't a problem. > Basic IFR panel. > Full IFR panel. > Redundant IFR Panel. None because (a) I can't afford them and (b) I don't plan to fly IFR and (c) I hate looking at all that stuff if I don't have a use for it (to say nothing of carrying the extra weight). I enjoy IFR flying, but I don't think it's wise on a single engine, at least not around where I mostly fly. (For you F-16 drivers, the bang seat counts as a second engine, right?). > Constant Speed Prop. Probably. I've flown RVs with FP props (wood and metal) and the performance is still great, but I'm developing the opinion that a CS prop would be better for aerobatics and formation, both of which I plan to do a lot of. And it's pretty good bang for the buck if you get a good deal on a non-certified prop (whoops, there I go mentioning money). > "FULL" engine instrumentation EGT CHT(on all cylinders) CarbT OAT . . . Probably not, although this would be the next most likely thing on your list for me, after a CS prop. I've never flown a piston airplane that had all that stuff, so maybe I just don't know what I'm missing. CHT on all cylinders would be nice during the initial fly-off hours, in case there was a cooling problem. > Panel mount moving map GPS Definitely not. I look out the window and read maps, and there's not a lot of


November 18, 2002 - November 27, 2002

RV-Archive.digest.vol-nv