RV-Archive.digest.vol-ny
December 08, 2002 - December 14, 2002
would be a liability rather than an asset to the sale.
When maintenance (replacement of the belts driving
the cam, for instance) is required, I don't think any
automobile mechanic or shop would touch it because
of potential liability problems.
If maintenance is required the access to an auto
mechanic coming to an airport to perform service on my
plane is very doubtful.
I can't see shipping the engine back to your plant for
service. I am not comfortable you will be in service in
the next 8-15 years.
The ignition system is a single point of failure and I have
already had an auto disabled on the interstate with a bad
crank position sensor.
Can you respond to these questions to allay my fears?
Thanks from Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN"
----------------
The response I received was:
"This engine is not for you
Jan"
Based on my criteria, Jan's response is quite valid.
I applaud him for that. The key message is one of
how much risk does one want to take. Each builder
has his or her own threshold of comfort and it is
important we not force-fit a solution that makes us lose
sleep... (I've been flying for 5 years behind a 2-cyle Rotax
and want something much more reliable!)
Joe Connell - RV-9A (fuselage) - N95JJ
jconnell(at)rconnect.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | baggage floor and platenuts |
list:
This is a picky kind of question, but here goes. Those of you that have installed
your baggage compartment floor panels with screws/platenuts, what spacing
between screws did you use? My thought is to have one at the front and back edges
of each panel at each rib and then evenly space two between them. Sound
good?
Thanks in advance folks
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuselage
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: baggage floor and platenuts |
I used the spacing that was prepunched for the pop-rivets originally called
for...probably was mega-overkill too!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: baggage floor and platenuts
>
> list:
>
> This is a picky kind of question, but here goes. Those of you that have
installed your baggage compartment floor panels with screws/platenuts, what
spacing between screws did you use? My thought is to have one at the front
and back edges of each panel at each rib and then evenly space two between
them. Sound good?
>
> Thanks in advance folks
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuselage
> Peshtigo, WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: MT-Propeller |
Hi Norm,
While MT Propeller's seem expensive, their "Prop" price normally includes
those incidental items required to actually use the prop. Like completely
fitted spinner (including front and rear bulkheads), governor, etc.
Hartzell "Prop" prices are usually just a prop.
I just received my $10,000 MT Propeller. It includes a $500 adapter (and
bushings) for the LOM M332A engine, a $1370 electric governor, and a $890
spinner with the electric sliprings (completely fitted to the prop).
Of course, this three bladed cruise prop is only around $7,000, when stated
like a Hartzell priced prop.
I've flown through my share of rain with a wood prop. At 2000 RPM, they
still don't hold up too well.
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV sn 50
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: baggage floor and platenuts |
In a message dated 12/8/02 2:01:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
jorear(at)new.rr.com writes:
<< This is a picky kind of question, but here goes. Those of you that have
installed your baggage compartment floor panels with screws/platenuts, what
spacing between screws did you use? My thought is to have one at the front
and back edges of each panel at each rib and then evenly space two between
them. Sound good? >>
Might be OK, but I just used the same spacing as shown on the plans for
rivets for my platenuts. Undoubtedly an overkill but only took a few hours
to put all the platenuts in so what the hey, it made for an easy decision.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "WALTER KERR" <kerrjb(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternative Powerplants et.al. (rotary cost vs lycoming) |
> I'd like to see some breakdown of the $8000 for an automotive "mount to
> hub" installation, as that sounds exceedingly cheap.
I am just going thru the purchasing, installation phase of a rotary engine.
This will be a course cut at the numbers.
13B 180 HP rotary from Bruce Turrentine $3500
including oil cooler, starter, etc.
(this could be reduced to $1500 if you feel capable of
overhauling a core; $500 for core and $1000 for parts)
Tracy Crook Reduction $2850
ECU/FFI $875
Coils if you do not use the stock ones $130
Griffin Custom Aluminum Radiator (about the same cost as O-360 oil cooler)
Cowling ( I used Sam James about $200 cheaper than Vans
without the aluminum rings which I did not buy)
Engine mount is considerably more expensive than Vans
Alternator is same
Do not have a price for the air induction system from
Bruce Turrentine nor the exhaust system from Barry Crook.
From these numbers you can see that $8k is a very achievable number.
When my engine is complete I will tally the numbers accurate for the list.
For pictures on my installation, go to www.rotaryaviation.com and look under
latest news.
Bernie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary" <rv9er(at)3rivers.net> |
No, they do like the rest of us sensible guys....they leave the insides bare aluminum.
Gary
From: "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com>
Subject: RV-List: Priming
I noticed that the Van's prototype for the RV-10 has had no priming or other corrosion
treatment for the internal structures such as bulkheads etc. Do they dip
the entire thing after the fact, or what? What about the mated surfaces?
DOC
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | engine baffling RV6 S-cowl |
I'm working on engine baffling and wondering specifically how at the front of the
engine between the starter ring gear and the upper/lower cowl joint the distance
that the part 1 fits forward of the aft end of the cowl joint? Should it
be cut off even with the cowl joint so that the fabric will seal that gap?
What about the cowl joint screws rubbing/chaffing against the aluminum or fabric
(depending which method used)? The part supplied in the generic baffle kit
extends forward of the aft end of the cowl air inlet. Should the airseal fabric
seal the whole area around this area with no leaks? It seems this is a hard
area to seal with the fiberglass air inlets being bonded to the cowl meeting
at this area also. Surely someone has been there. Thanks.
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Engines...somewhat long! |
Hi Bob,
There is one alternate engine, which is actually an aircraft engine with a
2000 hour TBO. It would work really well in a RV-9A. The LOM M332CE(12V).
It is an air-cooled four cylinder four cycle engine with "hemi" heads,
overhead cam, fuel injected and supercharged. It produces 170 horsepower.
When the supercharger is disengaged, this 245 cubic inch engine has a
specific fuel consumption of 0.43 pounds per horsepower.
It has a 250 pound weight. However, this is a "flying" weight.
You would need to add 60 pounds to the Lycoming "running" weight to get an
equivalent "flying" weight.
BTW, the engine is delivered with the complete baffling installed. :-)
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
RV-3 N47RV sn 50 LOM M332A engine (140 horsepower with supercharger engaged.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WCruiser1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Rapco Vac Pump Mount questions |
I am working on installing my rapco vac pump on the aux mount of my O-360 and
have not figured out how to tighten the lower corner nut closest to the
centerline of the engine. With the pump diameter larger than the mount
pattern, you have to tighten the nuts from the side (no socket access)
however the oil filter, temerature control, and tach drive are imediated
adjacent to the lower corner attachement.
Any advise would be greately appreciated.
Gary Gembala
RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rapco Vac Pump Mount questions |
Aircraft Spruce sells a special wrench for this.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10)
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <WCruiser1(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Rapco Vac Pump Mount questions
>
> I am working on installing my rapco vac pump on the aux mount of my O-360
and
> have not figured out how to tighten the lower corner nut closest to the
> centerline of the engine. With the pump diameter larger than the mount
> pattern, you have to tighten the nuts from the side (no socket access)
> however the oil filter, temerature control, and tach drive are imediated
> adjacent to the lower corner attachement.
>
> Any advise would be greately appreciated.
>
> Gary Gembala
>
> RV8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rockets vs Van's |
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
Terry,
The F1 tail kit has its advantages and disadvantages over the RV-8 emp. kit. It
is not matched-hole like the RV-8 is, but the skins are punched. So you do
have to jig everything and build carefully. It does shine in many other respects,
however. All of the internal parts are anodized, and the heavier internal
parts are prepunched and finished. The ribs require no flutes, the are perfectly
straight out of the box; and are formed really well so no fluting or straightening
are required. The trailing edges are riveted (not bent) unlike the
RV kits, which almost totally eliminates the possibility of oil-canning. As
a result they are much stronger. At first I didn't like the looks of the trailing
edges but I've grown to like them--it looks more like a Mooney trailing edge
than it does an RV. Mark has done a great job with the manuals, there are
plenty of diagrams and photos to show the builder how things go together. Having
built an RV the old fashioned way, its been an easy kit to build for me.
I've had many RV builders over in my hangar and they seem to ooh and aah over
a lot of the little details that I do; pressed joggles in angles, critical placement
items already finished, nice riteting, etc. It is a great kit and I have
been very pleased with it and the support from Mark. He supports builders
110% and is an all-around great guy.
Yesterday I got jumped by a friend in his P-51 (fight's on! woohoo!) and boy I
could have used those two extra cylinders...at least I could out-turn him. I
chased him up a few verticals and did manage to wax him twice, but he got me more
times than that. Flew some formation afterward and I knew when he came up
on my right without having to look--that big Merlin sings a tune like no other.
Flights like that alone are worth pounding a few thousand rivets...
Bob Japundza
RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
F1 QB under const.
>The F1 Rocket looks like a great airplane. How does the F1 kit compare to Van's
>pre-punched kits (especially the empennage)?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines...somewhat long! |
snipped
>Figuring Normal Rated Power Output:
>an IO-360 turning @ 2024 rpm gives us 135 True HP at 75% and a piston
>speed of 1518 fpm.
>a 4.3L (262ci) turning @3375 rpm gives us 168 True HP at 75% and a
>piston speed of 1958 fpm.
>
>If you look at Absolute Maximum Power Output (Redline for application)
>IO-360 turning at 2650 rpm develops 180 THP and a piston speed of 2024 fpm
>4.3L turning at 4500 rpm develops 223 THP and a piston speed of 2610 fpm
snipped
Jim,
I was searching the internet looking for stock weight of the 4.3 engine. I came
across the following page, which states the horsepower of the 4.3 engine in
the S-10 as either 180 or 190 hp at 4400 rpm
http://www.new-cars.com/2002/chevrolet/chevrolet-s10-specifications.html
What model of this engine produces the 223 hp you quote? Is this web site in error?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose Gear Leg/Eng Mount |
Curt
This won't be much consolation to you now. I suggest you purchase a reamer to
clean up the gear leg socket in your replacement mount. Or perhaps you can weld
the gouge you have and ream to size. My 8A main gear legs did not fit my Wd-821
weldments. I decided that rather than trying to hand fit these important parts,
I'd ream them.
I checked with my shop landlord, Ed Heishman. Ed owns a machine shop and helps
me out when needed. Unfortunately, he didn't have a 1 7/16" reamer. I checked
with my other machinist friends. No joy. I purchased an import adjustable reamer
from MSC for $42. It did a great job. I have a .001" clearance fit of both
gear legs. Yesterday, local 9A builders Fabian Lefler and Jim Streit brought
their gear legs and sockets over. We did 6 legs & sockets (also did another 9A
builder's stuff as well). All have a real "honeymoon" fit now. The adjustable
reamer allowed me to compensate for the slight variation in the machining of
the legs.
MSC part number is 02239119. It is a K (size range) reamer. It adjusts from 1
11/32" to 1 1/2" Price is $41.17 Web link is:
http://www.mscdirect.com/PDF.process?pdf=196&Keyword=Y
I hope this helps
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A
>
>Well, now Ive done it!!!! Im working on the nose gear leg to my 6A and
>thought I had all the surfaces sanded nicely and all oiled up....it slid in
>great..perfect. Then I go to take the #$%
>& thing out and it wont
>budge....so after packing leg with ice, a bottle of oil, WD-40, a heat gun,
>and 2 days work the thing is finally out!!!
>
>Now the rub. The nose gear leg, on the lower portion where it makes contact
>with the engine mount (there are two "wide" parts..upper and about 7 in below
>where it exits the nose gear mount) I have a nice big gouge on the gear leg
>about 1/16th in deep...obvious replacement. My question is on the eng
>mount...I have a nice gouge on that too on the inside...not sure if a burr
>got in there or what, but looks like the way it is put together causes
>continuos rubbing at that position (as I replicated trying to get the gear
>leg mount out) and is going to dig into the nose gear leg and eventually
>cause failure.
>
>So should I go with a new eng mount from vans, get it fixed somehow, or get
>a new one from vans and modify it somehow to prevent this in the future??
>
>Since I most likely will go with some new parts...anyone need a 6A nose gear
>leg or engine mount (dynafocal)???
>
>Working on the plane is fun...but sometimes I use a lot of $#%
>&@# type
>words...today was one of those days!!!
>
>Kurt in OKC
>Ruining Parts as fast as I can buy them!!!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines...somewhat long! |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engines...somewhat long!
>
> snipped
> >Figuring Normal Rated Power Output:
> >an IO-360 turning @ 2024 rpm gives us 135 True HP at 75% and a piston
> >speed of 1518 fpm.
> >a 4.3L (262ci) turning @3375 rpm gives us 168 True HP at 75% and a
> >piston speed of 1958 fpm.
> >
> >If you look at Absolute Maximum Power Output (Redline for application)
> >IO-360 turning at 2650 rpm develops 180 THP and a piston speed of 2024
fpm
> >4.3L turning at 4500 rpm develops 223 THP and a piston speed of 2610 fpm
> snipped
>
> Jim,
> I was searching the internet looking for stock weight of the 4.3 engine.
I came across the following page, which states the horsepower of the 4.3
engine in the S-10 as either 180 or 190 hp at 4400 rpm
>
> http://www.new-cars.com/2002/chevrolet/chevrolet-s10-specifications.html
>
> What model of this engine produces the 223 hp you quote? Is this web site
in error?
> Charlie Kuss
I agree that there are a lot of exagerated HP claims around but there are
some valid reasons why some auto engines can make somewhat more than the
rating given by the carmaker.
Some of the main factors are:
Eliminating the restrictive car exhaust system.
Eliminating unneeded accessories like power steering pumps, air injection
pumps, radiator fans
Eliminating power robbing stuff like EGR
Improved intake manifold tuning
Running best power fuel mixture instead of best emissions (stochiometric)
These factors account for the increase from 160 HP that Mazda rated the 1989
13B to the 180 HP that I estimate I'm getting. The 4.3L Chevy will
definitely make more power but at the cost of 100+ more pounds.
A useful 'sanity check' is to calculate the theoretical CFM of air pumped by
any given engine at the target RPM and compare that to a reference engine
like the O - 360. If the auto engine pumps less air than the Lyc, it's not
going to make as much power.
Tracy Crook
Mazda 13B powered RV-4 1300 Hrs.
Mazda 20B powered RV-8 Gestation Mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rockets vs Van's |
Sounds like fun, Bob.
How will insurance costs differ...RV versus F1?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Japundza
> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 11:29 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Rockets vs Van's
>
>
>
>
> Terry,
>
> The F1 tail kit has its advantages and disadvantages over the
> RV-8 emp. kit. It is not matched-hole like the RV-8 is, but
> the skins are punched. So you do have to jig everything and
> build carefully. It does shine in many other respects,
> however. All of the internal parts are anodized, and the
> heavier internal parts are prepunched and finished. The ribs
> require no flutes, the are perfectly straight out of the box;
> and are formed really well so no fluting or straightening are
> required. The trailing edges are riveted (not bent) unlike
> the RV kits, which almost totally eliminates the possibility
> of oil-canning. As a result they are much stronger. At
> first I didn't like the looks of the trailing edges but I've
> grown to like them--it looks more like a Mooney trailing edge
> than it does an RV. Mark has done a great job with the
> manuals, there are plenty of diagrams and photos to show the
> builder how things go together. Having built an RV the old
> fashioned way, its been an ! easy kit to build for me. I've
> had many RV builders over in my hangar and they seem to ooh
> and aah over a lot of the little details that I do; pressed
> joggles in angles, critical placement items already finished,
> nice riteting, etc. It is a great kit and I have been very
> pleased with it and the support from Mark. He supports
> builders 110% and is an all-around great guy.
>
> Yesterday I got jumped by a friend in his P-51 (fight's on!
> woohoo!) and boy I could have used those two extra
> cylinders...at least I could out-turn him. I chased him up a
> few verticals and did manage to wax him twice, but he got me
> more times than that. Flew some formation afterward and I
> knew when he came up on my right without having to look--that
> big Merlin sings a tune like no other. Flights like that
> alone are worth pounding a few thousand rivets...
>
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 N244BJ O-360C/S flying
> F1 QB under const.
>
>
> >The F1 Rocket looks like a great airplane. How does the F1
> kit compare
> >to Van's pre-punched kits (especially the empennage)?
>
>
> ==========
> =========
> Matronics Forums.
> =========
> List members.
> =========
> =========
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WPAerial(at)aol.com |
i am sorry but priming really dose not mean someone is a TRUE craftsmen just
means they took extra time to prime. makes more weight, takes more time, and
for what?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engines...somewhat long! |
>
>>
>> snipped
>> >Figuring Normal Rated Power Output:
>> >an IO-360 turning @ 2024 rpm gives us 135 True HP at 75% and a piston
>> >speed of 1518 fpm.
>> >a 4.3L (262ci) turning @3375 rpm gives us 168 True HP at 75% and a
>> >piston speed of 1958 fpm.
>> >
>> >If you look at Absolute Maximum Power Output (Redline for application)
>> >IO-360 turning at 2650 rpm develops 180 THP and a piston speed of 2024
>fpm
>> >4.3L turning at 4500 rpm develops 223 THP and a piston speed of 2610 fpm
>> snipped
>>
>> Jim,
>> I was searching the internet looking for stock weight of the 4.3 engine.
>I came across the following page, which states the horsepower of the 4.3
>engine in the S-10 as either 180 or 190 hp at 4400 rpm
>>
>> http://www.new-cars.com/2002/chevrolet/chevrolet-s10-specifications.html
>>
>> What model of this engine produces the 223 hp you quote? Is this web site
>in error?
>> Charlie Kuss
>
>I agree that there are a lot of exagerated HP claims around but there are
>some valid reasons why some auto engines can make somewhat more than the
>rating given by the carmaker.
>Some of the main factors are:
>
>Eliminating the restrictive car exhaust system.
>Eliminating unneeded accessories like power steering pumps, air injection
>pumps, radiator fans
>Eliminating power robbing stuff like EGR
>Improved intake manifold tuning
>Running best power fuel mixture instead of best emissions (stochiometric)
>
>These factors account for the increase from 160 HP that Mazda rated the 1989
>13B to the 180 HP that I estimate I'm getting. The 4.3L Chevy will
>definitely make more power but at the cost of 100+ more pounds.
>
>A useful 'sanity check' is to calculate the theoretical CFM of air pumped by
>any given engine at the target RPM and compare that to a reference engine
>like the O - 360. If the auto engine pumps less air than the Lyc, it's not
>going to make as much power.
>
>Tracy Crook
>Mazda 13B powered RV-4 1300 Hrs.
>Mazda 20B powered RV-8 Gestation Mode
Tracy
Or you check it's fuel burn at a given percent of peak power. HP can be fairly
accurately determined that way. Losing the exhaust I'll buy. Generally that
will gain you about 15%. Do the auto manufacturers actually do hp tests with all
accessories mounted? I'm asking here, as I don't know. Are folks like Belted
Air running fuel injection or carbs? I don't see smog pumps on many cars anymore.
Electronic fuel injection eliminated the need for most smog pumps in 1986.
Improved intake manifolds? The Vortec system is very good. I don't think that
there is much there. I could be wrong though.
I was checking out aluminium block and heads for the 4.3. They cut about 90 pounds
off it's weight, but at the cost of about $3000 wholesale.
See
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Cylinder_Heads/4-6V.html
http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/Engine_Blocks/gm.html
I think your Mazda engine has a lot more going for it than any of the V-6 auto
engines.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | perfeng(at)3rivers.net |
| Subject: | Charlie Kuss (engines) |
Charlie,
Your figures are right for the S-10 application for 1998-2001. The engine I
use is not "on-road" production. It is actually one of GM's primary Marine
engines. Box stock right out of the crate 233hp @4800. Roller valve train,
60% under balanced crank, trufrided,"Pink" type rods, vortec flow profile heads.
We've put together quite a few of these for different types of applications and
every one we've had apart so far has been right down to the blueprint spec's so
very little tweeking has had to be done.
Jim D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Autogas + water = ice = no fuel flow |
Listers,
I've been using 93 octane auto gas on one tank of my RV-6A for over
a year. For the first time, last week, I had a problem with the auto gas.
- I'd noticed on the last several tanks that after I poured the autogas
into the tank (using that AC$ filter that's supposed to trap water) that I
was getting about 1/4" of water in the fuel sampler when I sumped the
auto gas tank. (I check each batch of auto gas to ensure it contains
no alcohol, using the EAA test).
- On a flight to Chicago, 10-15 degrees F @ 8000', I started loosing
power. Carb heat did no good, so "nearest/nearest" on the GPS
headed me to Zanesville OH 4 miles away, and I switched tanks to the
avgas tank. Power instantly restored.
- Once overhead ZZV, I switched back to the offending (autogas)
tank, and saw fuel flow instantly drop. Problem isolated... no fuel flow
from autogas tank. Gauge showed 1/4 tank remaining, fuel totalizer
agreed.
- On the ground at ZZV, sumped autogas tank, found very slow fuel
flow from sump, lots of little white "slivers" perhaps 1/16" long, which
I think were ice. Hypothesized ice slush blocking fuel pickup.
Removed fuel sump drain and let a half gallon or so flow out. No
obvious chunks of ice emerged onto pavement. Fuel flow showed
good on the ground.
- Filled auto gas tank with avgas, took off on avgas tank, then tested
autogas tank at altitude. No problem.
20/20 hindsight:
- ANY sign of water in autogas is dangerous in the winter -- ice.
-- I won't use autogas from that dealer in the future, due to consistent
signs of H2O in the gas
- Keeping one tank devoted to 100% avgas is a good safety precaution
Tim
******
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas + water = ice = no fuel flow |
.> 20/20 hindsight:
> - ANY sign of water in autogas is dangerous in the winter -- ice.
Water in any gas is dangerous. Water, and unknowns, can be found in avgas,
as well. That's why we're supposed to test for water before flights and
after filling up with gas. I've also found that one must keep the shafts of
the caps lubricated to keep them moist so that water does not venture into
the tanks when it rains. When I do that, I don't get water in my tanks. If
I don't, I can see some seepage. This is very important if one keeps his
airplane tied out, like I do.
> -- I won't use autogas from that dealer in the future, due to consistent
> signs of H2O in the gas
That is a smart move. The dealer is obviously not checking his tanks. I'm
sure your airplane is not the only one suffering from water in the gas. His
auto customers are probably suffering, as well. I've been buying airplane
gas from local auto service stations since 1986. I've yet to find water in
the gas from those stations. Call it lucky; but, I make sure that I buy
from those stations that sell a lot of gas. When I first started flying
with autogas, I'd also buy from airports that sold it. I finally quit that
because I was afraid that they didn't pump enough of it to keep it fresh. I
must admit that I still will buy it from Winterhaven, FL because their gas
is in nice tanks, which is a sign that they
probably push quite a bit of it to go to the expense of buying new tanks for
it.
> - Keeping one tank devoted to 100% avgas is a good safety precaution
>
Yes, maybe. If your avgas has water in it, you could get the same results.
:-) I don't bother with that. I check for water in the gas like I was
taught. With that, I don't worry about it. I have autogas in both tanks.
There is one little problem, though. If you're flying in extremely cold
conditions, you could have water in the gas and not find it in the test.
That could happen with either type. Since I don't like to fly when it's
that cold, I can usually find any water that's present. Another thing to do
is keep the tanks full in colder months to prevent condensation. I get more
moisture in the tanks from that than I do from leaks.
BTW, the auto gas price around the corner at the local BP was $1.17,
yesterday. Our airport's gas is around $2.40. For a guy like me who flys
on a very limited budget, auto gas in airplanes is a godsend. It's meant
that I've been able to fly my own aircraft at a much cheaper hourly rate for
the last 16+ years. If the Feds ever bring 82UL avgas on board, the rest of
you will be joining me, whether you want to or not. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
> i am sorry but priming really dose not mean someone is a TRUE craftsmen
just
> means they took extra time to prime. makes more weight, takes more time,
and
> for what?
I guess that depends on where you live. I've seen Cessnas, etc. with some
pretty bad corrosion at the ribs, etc. Especially those I've seen from
Florida. I did primer my RV-6A's interior parts; but, I'll probably just
primer the parts that do not have alclad on my next one. I don't live near
salt water; so, I'm sure that will be enough. Aircraft around here that
have not been around salt water generally fare well without the primer. A
shot of a corrosion preventative will take care of any worrying about it
that I might have; but, I'm going to wait for a while before I decide to do
that.
BTW, if one looks at a Van's QB, one would swear that they don't use primer,
either. They do. It has no pigment in it. I'm not too sure I like that.
I'd rather be able to see it.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: baggage floor and platenuts |
Hi Jeff- welcome to "Platenut Hell" 8-)
I wound up using basically 2-1/2" spacing on the front and rear edges, one on each
end of each rib with 3 spaced as necessary in between. In using K1100 (flush)
screws, I figured they would probably have a little more shear strength than
K1000's, so perhaps a few less than the rivet call out would work OK, but
then I
haven't done any crash tests yet (nor do I intend to!!)
Good luck from The PossumWorks
Mark Phillips
Jeff Orear wrote:
>
> list:
>
> This is a picky kind of question, but here goes. Those of you that have installed
your baggage compartment floor panels with screws/platenuts, what spacing
between screws did you use? My thought is to have one at the front and back
edges of each panel at each rib and then evenly space two between them. Sound
good?
>
> Thanks in advance folks
>
> Regards,
>
> Jeff Orear
> RV6A
> fuselage
> Peshtigo, WI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com> |
| Subject: | N-345SL makes first flight |
RV-4 N345SL made it's first flight on Sunday morning in the cool clear skies
over Farmington NM. It was great, landing was easier than I expected even
though my approach was too fast, these airplanes don't want to slow down. I
owe thanks to many on the list for help and encouragement over the years but
mostly to my good friend Mike Talovich who is always there to help.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, "FLYING"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Charlie Kuss (engines) |
Jim,
Thanks for the info. Sounds really good. Marine and truck engines are always better
choices than the auto versions. Since the S-10 engine makes 190 hp at 4400
rpm, 223 hp at 4800 sounds about right. Does this engine use a "hotter" cam
than the S-10? Turning those extra "Rs" may require a different PSRU ratio to
fully utilize that extra power. More power and higher engine speed means more
stress on the PSRU.
To be honest, it's the PSRU and possibly poorly constructed cooling systems that
make me shy away from using something like the 4.3. I also want constant speed
prop capability. Using a PSRU means wood or composite props ONLY. The only
C/S props which work well are the hydraulic units. The current electric versions
are to slow to adjust.
What are your thoughts & experience using the aluminium block/head combinations
offered by Chevrolet and the after market? Do these parts offer enough rigidity
for steady high output applications?
Charlie
PS Perhaps you should post your reply on list. I'm sure that there are others interested
in this info.
>
>
>Charlie,
>Your figures are right for the S-10 application for 1998-2001. The engine I
>use is not "on-road" production. It is actually one of GM's primary Marine
>engines. Box stock right out of the crate 233hp @4800. Roller valve train,
>60% under balanced crank, trufrided,"Pink" type rods, vortec flow profile heads.
>We've put together quite a few of these for different types of applications and
>every one we've had apart so far has been right down to the blueprint spec's so
>very little tweeking has had to be done.
>
>Jim D.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com> |
I used the regular water based clay and it worked fine you just have to seal
it with the mold release and do your lay ups before it dries and cracks,
once the wet lay up is on it won't dry out at least not before the
fiberglass epoxy resin cures. I bought 25# for $12 still have about 203 you
can have for free, come and get it.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, Flying.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Kells [mailto:ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca]
Subject: RV-List: Modeling Clay
First question: I have decided to make my own intersection fairings.
Instead of the oil-based modeling clay mentioned by Vans and the archives
for the molds, has anyone tried the normal (water-based) modeling clay that
is readily available - and cheap? First, I am considering mixing a
food-grade oil into the clay, replacing the water - stirring well in small
batches for each fairing. Second, I am considering laying up the
water-based clay, then rubbing a coating of oil on the surface for no
sticking. Would one of these methods work?? Working with fiber-glass is a
little bit of hell on Earth.
Second question: I would like to repair a few riveting dings. Would resin
mixed with flox - or milled fiber work after really roughing up the skin? I
understand that it would dry very hard. Although sanding may be really
tough, I only have very few of these so this wouldn't be a problem. It
would be great to hide these very few errors with something that won't
shrink, crack, fall off, etc. Thanks.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 85% Complete
RE: RV-List: Modeling Clay
I used the regular water based clay and it worked fine you just have to seal it
with the mold release and do your lay ups before it dries and cracks, once the
wet lay up is on it won't dry out at least not before the fiberglass epoxy resin
cures. I bought 25# for $12 still have about 203 you can have for free, come
and get it.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, Flying.
-----Original Message-----
From: Ernest Kells [<A HREF"mailto:ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca">mailto:ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca]
Subject: RV-List: Modeling Clay
-- RV-List message posted by: Ernest Kells ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca
First question: I have decided to make my own intersection fairings.
Instead of the oil-based modeling clay mentioned by Vans and the archives
for the molds, has anyone tried the normal (water-based) modeling clay that
is readily available - and cheap? First, I am considering mixing a
food-grade oil into the clay, replacing the water - stirring well in small
batches for each fairing. Second, I am considering laying up the
water-based clay, then rubbing a coating of oil on the surface for no
sticking. Would one of these methods work?? Working with fiber-glass is a
little bit of hell on Earth.
Second question: I would like to repair a few riveting dings. Would resin
mixed with flox - or milled fiber work after really roughing up the skin? I
understand that it would dry very hard. Although sanding may be really
tough, I only have very few of these so this wouldn't be a problem. It
would be great to hide these very few errors with something that won't
shrink, crack, fall off, etc. Thanks.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 85% Complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: N-345SL makes first flight |
Larry:
Congrats!!!
Take care of all the minors squawks and fly safe .. and have FUN !!!
Len Leggette RV-8A
N901LL
Greensboro, N.C.
24 hours !!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Autogas + water = ice = no fuel flow |
Jim & Tim-
Thanks for the great info- 2 questions:
1. Other than sumping the tanks, what is the "test for water" procedure you
speak of?
2. Any ideas if any of the commercially available fuel anti-ice products might
be useful prophylactics for icing (I'm am not familiar with them, just heard of
'em) or would the tank sealant/hoses/seals etc. object with unpleasant results?
Anybody used any of this stuff?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - 6A
>
> .> 20/20 hindsight:
> > - ANY sign of water in autogas is dangerous in the winter -- ice.
>
> Water in any gas is dangerous. Water, and unknowns, can be found in avgas,
> as well. That's why we're supposed to test for water before flights and
> after filling up with gas.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Charlie Kuss (engines) |
> I also want constant speed prop capability. Using a PSRU means wood or composite
props ONLY.
There are PSRUs that allow you to use a Hartzell CS prop. A friend has one on
his Spitfire replica. However, I think it's a gear drive, which I know you're
not so keen on. If you like I can find out more about it for you.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Rockets vs Van's |
| From: | "Bob Japundza" <Bob.Japundza(at)realmed.com> |
>How will insurance costs differ...RV versus F1?
Larry,
Yearly insurance costs will be a little more than double what I'm paying now.
On the other side of that, the hull value is much higher so it comes as no surprise.
I've been quoted around $2500/yr. Ouch. This is because of the high
rate of claims on the HR2...that's an entirely different subject which I won't
get into here. Hopefully it will go down somewhat as more F1's get airborne.
Ironically, I believe I will only a few thousand $$ more into the completion
of this airplane than my RV-6. The engines and props at the moment are in greater
supply than 4-cyl engines, I was able to get some good deals on the engine
and prop. Its all a balancing act.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | N-345SL makes first flight |
Larry,
Congratulations!!!!!!!!!! I wish you many thousands of hours more. The
RV-4 is a dream come true for many of us, myself included.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: RV-List: N-345SL makes first flight
>
> RV-4 N345SL made it's first flight on Sunday morning in the cool clear
skies
> over Farmington NM. It was great, landing was easier than I expected even
> though my approach was too fast, these airplanes don't want to slow down.
I
> owe thanks to many on the list for help and encouragement over the years
but
> mostly to my good friend Mike Talovich who is always there to help.
> Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, "FLYING"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N-345SL makes first flight |
Larry,
CONGRATULATIONS & WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'RV List'"
>Subject: RV-List: N-345SL makes first flight
>Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2002 06:43:45 -0700
>
>
>RV-4 N345SL made it's first flight on Sunday morning in the cool clear
>skies
>over Farmington NM. It was great, landing was easier than I expected even
>though my approach was too fast, these airplanes don't want to slow down. I
>owe thanks to many on the list for help and encouragement over the years
>but
>mostly to my good friend Mike Talovich who is always there to help.
>Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, "FLYING"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rapco Vac Pump Mount questions |
Hi Gary,
A homegrown solution is to modify a 7/16 box end wrench by cutting open
the end of the boxend to slip over the stud and putting a right angle
bend (requires heating) in the shank of the wrench about 2" from the
center of the boxend. This will allow the long part of the shank to pass
between the pump and the oil filter.
Hope this helps.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A FWF
WCruiser1(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> I am working on installing my rapco vac pump on the aux mount of my O-360 and
> have not figured out how to tighten the lower corner nut closest to the
> centerline of the engine. With the pump diameter larger than the mount
> pattern, you have to tighten the nuts from the side (no socket access)
> however the oil filter, temerature control, and tach drive are imediated
> adjacent to the lower corner attachement.
>
> Any advise would be greately appreciated.
>
> Gary Gembala
>
> RV8A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Water+Autogas=ice=no Gas |
I have used a mixture of auto regular and 100LL and have had NO water
problems . Of course I strain everything through a funnel with a screen fine
enough to reject water . NOTHING goes into my tanks - except through that
funnel . Really cheap insurance .
I check each barrel of auto gas for alcohol too.
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Charlie Kuss (engines) |
Hi All,
MT-Propeller makes a very nice electric constant speed propeller. I just
received one for my LOM engine. They put together a very complete propeller
system package (based on what I've received.).
Jim Ayers
RV-3 N47RV sn 50 LOM M332A engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Electric Constant Speed Propeller |
Hi All,
After spending my week at Oshkosh this year looking for a replacement
propeller for my present electric CS prop, I found the booth for
MT-Propeller.
Yea. I know. They make "aerobatic" propellers, which make the airplane fly
slower. I read that on the RV-list. Recently. So it must be true. :-)
However, if you request a "cruise" propeller, you'll get a very efficient
cruise propeller. (For you "Missouri technical" people, I'll have actual
performance numbers soon. :-) )
MT-Propeller uses a questionnaire to determine the appropriate propeller for
each application. (I have already filled out a couple of questionnaires for
individuals on the RV-list that have E-mailed me directly.)
The questionnaire does NOT order the propeller.
The questionnaire is used to identify the propeller hub and blade design,
which match the data provided on the questionnaire. The propeller model and
blade designation is provided with a price list of the "propeller system".
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon Lomoth" <rv7canuck(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | countersinking spar on RV7 wings |
Hello
I am starting to countersink the flange for the nutplates that hold the fuel
tank skins to the spar. I am using a piece of aluminum behind the spar to
center the pilot. I have drilled the holes to #19 and am using a #8 screw
countersink cutter. The size of the countersinks seem quite large to me and
was wondering how wide other peoples countersinks may be? I know that they
are deeper than the flange so thats why I used the aluminum behind it. When
I use a test dimple, also #8 the countersinks seem larger than they should.
Anybody else out there with this problem?
Thanks in advance
Gordon Lomoth
Kitchener, Ontario
Rv7 wings
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com> |
| Subject: | width of fuselage |
Can anyone please tell me how wide the widest part of an RV-7 fuselage is, when
it's ready to be moved out of the shop and out to a hanger for installation of
the wings, etc?
I'm trying to decide which RV to build.
KL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: width of fuselage |
I measured 43 5/16" exterior width at the widest point.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com>
Subject: RV-List: width of fuselage
>
> Can anyone please tell me how wide the widest part of an RV-7 fuselage is,
when it's ready to be moved out of the shop and out to a hanger for
installation of the wings, etc?
>
> I'm trying to decide which RV to build.
>
> KL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Truitt <Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov> |
| Subject: | weight of Hooker Harnesses |
I have Hooker harnesses for my 8A, five point, with shoulder and lap
pads, pull tabs, and military style latch. Weight of both is about 9 pounds
- hard to be exact on my bathroom scales, but should be close.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | N-345SL makes first flight |
That is really great, congratulations on your first flight..
Fran Malczynski
RV6 - N594EF, (still test flying, weather not co-operating)
Olcott, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larry Hawkins
Subject: RV-List: N-345SL makes first flight
RV-4 N345SL made it's first flight on Sunday morning in the cool clear skies
over Farmington NM. It was great, landing was easier than I expected even
though my approach was too fast, these airplanes don't want to slow down. I
owe thanks to many on the list for help and encouragement over the years but
mostly to my good friend Mike Talovich who is always there to help.
Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, "FLYING"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: countersinking spar on RV7 wings |
The way I check machined countersinks is to gradually adjust the cutter depth
until a test dimple in a piece of scrap material the same thickness as the
overlying skin just fits flush in the countersink. Another thing you need to
watch is that even a backup plate unless it is securely clamped in position
will allow the cutter pilot to wobble and cut uneven and oversized holes.
This works for me, hope it helps
In a message dated 12/9/02 8:53:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,
rv7canuck(at)hotmail.com writes:
Hello
I am starting to countersink the flange for the nutplates that hold the fuel
tank skins to the spar. I am using a piece of aluminum behind the spar to
center the pilot. I have drilled the holes to #19 and am using a #8 screw
countersink cutter. The size of the countersinks seem quite large to me and
was wondering how wide other peoples countersinks may be? I know that they
are deeper than the flange so thats why I used the aluminum behind it. When
I use a test dimple, also #8 the countersinks seem larger than they should.
Anybody else out there with this problem?
Thanks in advance
Gordon Lomoth >>
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: countersinking spar on RV7 wings |
That's basically what I did. I got some 1/8" x 1" aluminum strips from Home
Depot and made templates by drilling to #19 after I had drilled the holes in
the spar to #19. I just attached the templates using #8 flat screws and
nuts and clecoes through the platenut holes. When I finished
countersinking, I had barely touched the aluminum backplate. You don't want
to use an air drill here. I used a battery powered drill set to the slower
of the two possible speeds. I also used cutting fluid available from
Cleaveland.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121 fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon Lomoth" <rv7canuck(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: countersinking spar on RV7 wings
>
> Hello
>
> I am starting to countersink the flange for the nutplates that hold the
fuel
> tank skins to the spar. I am using a piece of aluminum behind the spar to
> center the pilot. I have drilled the holes to #19 and am using a #8 screw
> countersink cutter. The size of the countersinks seem quite large to me
and
> was wondering how wide other peoples countersinks may be? I know that
they
> are deeper than the flange so thats why I used the aluminum behind it.
When
> I use a test dimple, also #8 the countersinks seem larger than they
should.
> Anybody else out there with this problem?
>
> Thanks in advance
>
> Gordon Lomoth
> Kitchener, Ontario
> Rv7 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Princeton capacitive fuel level probes |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
Is anyone out there using Princeton capacitive fuel level probes? Grand Rapids
Technologies is selling them with their EIS engine monitor, and they are available
pre-bent to fit the RV tanks so I'm assuming there must be some in service.
Any comments pro or con? I already have the Stewart Warner float senders
but am thinking about getting the capacitive probes and putting them in before
my wings are permanently mounted. They are more expensive at $95 each but if
it saves me *ever* having to pull them out for replacement it's probly worthwhile.
I know it can be done but in my case it will be worse on the left wing
since I have my fuel pump and gascolator in the wing root area...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6 S-cowl Dave Ford |
Dave..
I am just finishing my baffles. The way I read the instructions the area behind
the spinner is to be sealed and I am in the process of doing that now but have
not succeeded yet. The fiberglass ducts on the underside of the top cowl have
been trimmed to fit between the side baffles and the center baffles. The
ducts have a very small space (1/4") between them and the baffles to allow the
rubber seal to pass as the top cowl is being installed in position. This may
be enlarged later for fit as the rubber seals have not been installed yet. My
cowl ducts are, at this point only clecoed in position so they are still moveable.
I don't know if this is the proper way to do this but that is where I
am now. It appears like the seal around the nose of the cowl will not be super
tight like the rest of the baffles but I am trying.
Dick DeCramer
RV 6
Northfield, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Princeton capacitive fuel level probes |
Haven't used them.
The EIS folks said the Van's cap. Senders, which I have installed, would
work with their instrument too. Just need a converter/adapter thingy.
I don't remember the details at this point. I'll have to revisit those
details and order them soon. I already have the EIS.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> czechsix(at)juno.com
> Sent: Monday, December 09, 2002 6:16 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Princeton capacitive fuel level probes
>
>
>
> Guys,
>
> Is anyone out there using Princeton capacitive fuel level
> probes? Grand Rapids Technologies is selling them with their
> EIS engine monitor, and they are available pre-bent to fit
> the RV tanks so I'm assuming there must be some in service.
> Any comments pro or con? I already have the Stewart Warner
> float senders but am thinking about getting the capacitive
> probes and putting them in before my wings are permanently
> mounted. They are more expensive at $95 each but if it saves
> me *ever* having to pull them out for replacement it's probly
> worthwhile. I know it can be done but in my case it will be
> worse on the left wing since I have my fuel pump and
> gascolator in the wing root area...
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame |
> I am stuck; the frame for my canopy does not
> fit well with one side of the fuselage.
>
> I am trying to bend to fit better, instead what
> I did was to make it worst.
>
> Any suggestions, any one out there had any problem
> with this? how was fixed... is hard to bend this
> steel tube...
Picture a flowchart that goes:
1) Bend tube
2) Better? go to step 4. Otherwise
3) Worse? Go to step 1. Otherwise
4) Still not quite right? Go to step 1. Otherwise
5) You're done.
If the you haven't made it to step 5 at the end of a week, you're still not
alone -- keep trying.
And no I'm not even really trying to be sarcastic. I spent close to a week
of evenings on that. Read the other posts for suggestions on how to bend the
thing (and hit the archives if you cant get enough of that.) Also I believe
it was issue 5 2002 of the RVator that had a good write-up on it by Scott
McDaniels.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~450 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Single Strobe Power Supply Source? |
> Has anyone found an acceptable, reasonably-priced Strobe Power Supply
Source
> for single tail strobe? I have searched archives w/o success for
alternative
> source. Thanks for your help.
When I researched strobes and what power supplies (read brightness) put
out, I found that you get what you pay for. I then noticed that some small
planes had strobes that were much brighter than others. The lessor of the
ones I saw in flight weren't effective very far but yet I was able to notice
stobe flashes on some planes at very great distances. I then bought the
Whelens from ACS for big bucks. Ho hum......
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Unloading new Lycoming from the freight truck |
I just found out my new Lycoming engine is in town. The catch is that the
truck doesn't have a lift gate to unload the engine. I have a portable
engine crane and five of the nylon tiedowns that I used to pull the wing
skins into position. I don't want to take it out of the box since it's
packed for long term storage. I'm thinking it won't be a big deal to rig up
something when the truck arrives to lower it about four feet onto a cart I
have. Am I wrong?
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
> I'm building and RV-9A and am wondering how you
> are securing the aft fuselage wiring. The wire goes
> through snap bushings on the bulkheads, but how do
> you secure it between the bulkheads? Do you just
> lace it together and let it dangle?
Does the RV9 use J-stringers to stiffen the fuselage side skins like my
RV6A?
I bundled my wires in plastic wrap then laid them in the J-stringers. A few
holes and some mil spec plastic tie wraps and they are very secure. I used
Van's snap bushings at the bulkheads.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Single strobe power supply |
Thanks for your help. I contacted Louis there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: baggage floor and platenuts |
> This is a picky kind of question, but here goes. Those of you that have
installed your baggage compartment floor panels with screws/platenuts, what
spacing between screws did you use? My thought is to have one at the front
and back edges of each panel at each rib and then evenly space two between
them. Sound good?
Yup (RV6A), it's in my "if I were doing it again" file.....
Norman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Cockpit Floor Details |
Time for the cockpit floor to get finished (RV-6A, btw). The Coleman camping foam
is already cut and two layers glued to fit between the stiffener angles and
the somewhat fire-resistant carpet is ready to cut to fit.
Can anyone with a few hours flying comment on the need for any additional stiffening
or reinforcement material between the foam and the carpet ? How about "heel
scuff plates" as mentioned in the archives occasionally.?
My thinking is to provide a smooth, flat surface to lay the carpet on (attached
with velcro strips or whatever) and provide a firmer surface to step on when
getting in. Probably won't be too many ladies with spike heels or similar getting
in but something fairly substantial seems needed; .025 alum seems too thin,
040 or greater would work but seems heavy. I am thinking about something like
1/4" ply or 1/8" hardboard cut to fit around the battery box and miss the various
tits of fuel and brake line at the edges of the floor. Salvaged airliner
honeycomb floor would be notice but is not likely to happen.
Scuff plates would be strategically placed alum rectangles riveted to the carpet
under the rudder pedals.
So, useful items or just more unnecessary weight ??
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A (wings on - only 30 inaccessible $%&* nuts left to tighten)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
snip
> I also put in the Targa strip with Velcro. I used contact cement on my
Now some builders from the past will recall that I have been promoting the
use of nothing but non flamable products within the cockpit. Now I am in a
state of conflict with contact cement. The stuff is available from many
manufactors with a water base that is very low flamable where the regular
stuff and certainly the V90 is highly flammable.
--------------------------------
Hi Norman
Are you worried about in shop use during construction or in flight use, I
would think that it is not that flammable after it has dried and all the
solvent has dissolved. A flammability test of the dry V90 might be in order.
George in Langley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Floor Details |
Hi Jim,
Awhile back Mike Nellis kindly put some drawings and pictures of my approach
to the cabin foot well floors. these can be found at:
http://bmnellis.com/BuilderIdeas/JimJewellIdeas.htm
I felt then that this approach served the purpose of providing some extra
floor area strength with the least added weight that I could devise. the
added foor strength is surprising! The total weight of the various non Vans
designed aircraft parts weighed in at less than six pounds including extra
rivets, screws and nut plates. The added appearance of a clean uncluttered
floor area is a bonus.
I thought that having the floors built removable and integral to the air
frame to a must. the insulation that vans sells will be attached to the
underside of the floors. This will provide heat and sound dampening and keep
the hull frame work open to air movement. I would rather not provide places
for condensation to be trapped if at all possible.
This did represent extra effort and ate up extra days of build time. If I
build again I will do it again and basically the same. since the pictures
where taken I added additional floor trim parts and heel scuff plates.
I think that if your upper forward section is riveted in place this would be
a hard addition to accomplish.
If you want more information let me know.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Cockpit Floor Details
>
> Time for the cockpit floor to get finished (RV-6A, btw). The Coleman
camping foam is already cut and two layers glued to fit between the
stiffener angles and the somewhat fire-resistant carpet is ready to cut to
fit.
>
> Can anyone with a few hours flying comment on the need for any additional
stiffening or reinforcement material between the foam and the carpet ? How
about "heel scuff plates" as mentioned in the archives occasionally.?
>
> My thinking is to provide a smooth, flat surface to lay the carpet on
(attached with velcro strips or whatever) and provide a firmer surface to
step on when getting in. Probably won't be too many ladies with spike heels
or similar getting in but something fairly substantial seems needed; .025
alum seems too thin, 040 or greater would work but seems heavy. I am
thinking about something like 1/4" ply or 1/8" hardboard cut to fit around
the battery box and miss the various tits of fuel and brake line at the
edges of the floor. Salvaged airliner honeycomb floor would be notice but is
not likely to happen.
>
> Scuff plates would be strategically placed alum rectangles riveted to the
carpet under the rudder pedals.
>
> So, useful items or just more unnecessary weight ??
>
> Jim Oke
> Winnipeg, MB
> RV-6A (wings on - only 30 inaccessible $%&* nuts left to tighten)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Contact Cement |
Hi to George and Norman,
If the material that is glued in place is fire retardant the dried glue
holding it will be sealed off from air supply so it will not readily
combust.
I tend to think that if there is enough heat to cause serious gassing (the
main concern with these types of products) due to excess heat form a fire
source you will already be frying other fish. (g-{
Do try to avoid using materials like poly urethanes etc. in the forward
cabin section. The gases from these materials will do you great harm and are
likely to incapacitate you long before the fire itself.
Bummer topic eh!,.. Canadian for; Bummer topic huh! .....(:-)!
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Contact Cement
>
>
> snip
> > I also put in the Targa strip with Velcro. I used contact cement on my
>
> Now some builders from the past will recall that I have been promoting the
> use of nothing but non flamable products within the cockpit. Now I am in a
> state of conflict with contact cement. The stuff is available from many
> manufactors with a water base that is very low flamable where the regular
> stuff and certainly the V90 is highly flammable.
>
>
> --------------------------------
>
> Hi Norman
>
> Are you worried about in shop use during construction or in flight use, I
> would think that it is not that flammable after it has dried and all the
> solvent has dissolved. A flammability test of the dry V90 might be in
order.
>
> George in Langley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Seats & Cockpit Floor Details |
Time for the cockpit floor to get finished (RV-6A, btw). The Coleman camping
foam is already cut and two layers glued to fit between the stiffener angles
and the somewhat fire-resistant carpet is ready to cut to fit.
Can anyone with a few hours flying comment on the need for any additional
stiffening or reinforcement material between the foam and the carpet ? How
about "heel scuff plates" as mentioned in the archives occasionally.?
My thinking is to provide a smooth, flat surface to lay the carpet on
(attached with velcro strips or whatever) and provide a firmer surface to
step on when getting in. Probably won't be
------------------------------------
Hi Jim
My experience with my 6A is that I do not step directly on the floor when
getting in/out, the floor is too far forward. I get in by stepping/standing
on the seat and kind of sitting or supporting myself on the seat back, I
have a matching doily to protect seat cushion. Once in this position I slide
down into the seat.
I have these recommendations for builders.
(1)A firm, level, bottom seat cushion, it is easier to stand on.
(2)Rugged upholstery material and strong attachment where the seatback
cushion is attached at the top of the seat back. You will be pushing the
seat back cushion downwards with your back as you lower yourself into the
seat.
(3) Handles on roll bar to assist entry exit.
(4) Watch positioning of pull type controls on botom of instrument panel,
there is a tendency for the cuff of a pantleg to snag protruding controls.
(5)carpeting must be securily attached to the floorboards to prevent your
heels from pushing it forward as you slide down into the seat. There is
quite a bit of weight in your legs and it is applied through your heels to
the flooring as you move or drag your feet forward/aft during entry/exit.
Flooring with less traction (slippery) is better.
(6)Many builders use small wear plates where heels rest on carpet at the
rudder pedals.
On my 6A flooring, I used vinyl, a Boeing (surplus) galley flooring over 1/2
inch felt insulation, my seats are a heavy Boeing surplus fabric like they
use in 747 cockpit seats.
Hope that helps,
Coldest winter of my life, CYWG, 1959, ATC school!
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <JimNolan(at)kconline.com> |
List,
I've got to share this experience in buying headsets with you.
I bought two noise canceling headsets about two and a half months ago
from a place called AvShop in Warsaw Indiana. ( they do mostly internet
business ) I had trouble hearing and the words were distorted. I mailed them
back to the manufacture and they sent me two new sets. ( they were real
understanding ) With the new sets, I found that a squeal developed when I
turned my head sideways.
AvShop has a policy that if you don't like your headsets within a month
that you can take them back and exchange them for a different set. But after
two and a half months they took these back cheerfully and exchanged them for
two non-noise canceling headsets. You don't get service like that very often
and when you've spent $900.00 it makes you feel queasy to think that you're
money was wasted.
Just thought I'd share this experience in case someone needed headsets
without taking a chance on your purchase.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Warsaw, In.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Unloading new Lycoming from the freight truck |
I would imagine the engine is strapped to the pallet that is the base for the
box- cut a hole in the top of the box large enough to attach your crane to the
lifting strap, hook it up & hoist away? No idea if this would work, but worth
looking at?
Stephen Johnson wrote:
>
> I just found out my new Lycoming engine is in town. The catch is that the
> truck doesn't have a lift gate to unload the engine. I have a portable
> engine crane and five of the nylon tiedowns that I used to pull the wing
> skins into position. I don't want to take it out of the box since it's
> packed for long term storage. I'm thinking it won't be a big deal to rig up
> something when the truck arrives to lower it about four feet onto a cart I
> have. Am I wrong?
>
> Steve Johnson
> RV-8 #80121
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Engine installation |
Within the next two weeks or so, I am expecting a factory new Lycoming
0-320-D1A and welcome any tips, advice, or suggestions for avoiding grief or
needless aggravation in hanging the engine on my 6A as soon as possible.
Another words, what prep work is advantageous or needs to be done to the engine
right out of the box, mandatory or otherwise, prior to bolting the powerplant to
the engine mount?
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Brown" <nightmare(at)adelphia.net> |
A few years ago, while at SNF, I was talking to a guy on the flight line and he
mentioned that if I ever wanted to buy any avionics for my RV I should check
with a guy in Georgia. He said that this guy had the best prices. Does anyone
know of this place. I'm looking to purchase one of UPS's SL40's. The best price
that I could find, so far, is 1245.00
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
Try Charles at Mt Pocono, Pa .....570.839.1181
10% over cost or garmin is 30% off their published list and ups is 20%
off.
Gave me a great deal.
Barry Pote RV9a
Paul Brown wrote:
>
>
> A few years ago, while at SNF, I was talking to a guy on the flight line and
he mentioned that if I ever wanted to buy any avionics for my RV I should check
with a guy in Georgia. He said that this guy had the best prices. Does anyone
know of this place. I'm looking to purchase one of UPS's SL40's. The best
price that I could find, so far, is 1245.00
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because of flammability, and toxic
vapors that could result from a short situation, etc.
Electrical tape placed strategically with good flammability ratings instead?
Robert
Norman wrote:
>
> > I'm building and RV-9A and am wondering how you
> > are securing the aft fuselage wiring. The wire goes
> > through snap bushings on the bulkheads, but how do
> > you secure it between the bulkheads? Do you just
> > lace it together and let it dangle?
>
> Does the RV9 use J-stringers to stiffen the fuselage side skins like my
> RV6A?
> I bundled my wires in plastic wrap then laid them in the J-stringers. A few
> holes and some mil spec plastic tie wraps and they are very secure. I used
> Van's snap bushings at the bulkheads.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Water+Autogas=ice=no Gas |
| From: | "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com> |
Unless a filter is specifically engineered to repel water (hydrophobic), the water
will pass through it. Filters at retail gasoline stations are designed with
hydrophobic elements, but even they fail too often. It is almost impossible
to keep water out of fuel, aviation or otherwise along the production, distribution
and retail chain, and systems are employed at each level to remove it.
Even the most reliable marketer will find it in his tanks eventually, but if
you don't get it from the refiner, distributor, or marketer, watch out for condensation
in your own tanks as another poster pointed out.
The rule is: expect water, check your sumps before every flight and feel good
when you don't find it. Interestingly enough, ethanol in gasoline will absorb
water to a point so it provides some safety margin at the expense of economy
and materials compatibility. We have ETOH in all of our automotive gasoline here
in Minnesota (but not because of water).
Bruce Anthony
Chemical Engineer
18 years in refining and retail petroleum
RV-9A - just getting started
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
Here are some preliminary part #'s for the metal
"standoff" Try these with your local tool dealer. They
are listed in the M.S. books.
WSI42L3W-5 (this is a 1/2" standoff)
BAC18F OR G
BACS18R
these are upright standoffs and not the ones that lay
flat.
Glenn Williams
A&P Fort Worth
--- Miller Robert wrote:
>
>
> The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because
> of flammability, and toxic
> vapors that could result from a short situation,
> etc.
> Electrical tape placed strategically with good
> flammability ratings instead?
> Robert
>
> Norman wrote:
>
>
> >
> > > I'm building and RV-9A and am wondering how you
> > > are securing the aft fuselage wiring. The wire
> goes
> > > through snap bushings on the bulkheads, but how
> do
> > > you secure it between the bulkheads? Do you
> just
> > > lace it together and let it dangle?
> >
> > Does the RV9 use J-stringers to stiffen the
> fuselage side skins like my
> > RV6A?
> > I bundled my wires in plastic wrap then laid them
> in the J-stringers. A few
> > holes and some mil spec plastic tie wraps and they
> are very secure. I used
> > Van's snap bushings at the bulkheads.
> >
> > Norman Hunger
> > RV6A Delta BC
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Engine for sale 0 320 E3D |
Helping a friend try to sale his Glassair kit 70% finished with engine and
prop. Engine overhauled ready to go 12,500. prop spinner backiing plate bolts
and extension ,new never used 70CM 6S16-O-78. 1,650
Terry E. Cole
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
The guy's name is John Stark.
Stark avionics.
Here is his old web site (I think he has a new one, but its not in Google...
this on still has his correct phone numbers, etc)
http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/starkav.html
In my opinion, John has the lowest prices around. I bought a complete
Apollow/UPS IFR stack from him about 3 months ago. His price was $5,120 LESS
than Gulf Coast Avionics, and about $3,000 less than Eastern Avionics.
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Brown
Subject: RV-List: Avionics
A few years ago, while at SNF, I was talking to a guy on the flight line and
he mentioned that if I ever wanted to buy any avionics for my RV I should
check with a guy in Georgia. He said that this guy had the best prices. Does
anyone know of this place. I'm looking to purchase one of UPS's SL40's.
The best price that I could find, so far, is 1245.00
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine installation |
Hi Rick,
I just hung my 0-320-D1A last weekend. I found the "Illustrated Guide to
Engine Hanging" very helpful in both preparation of the engine and the
actual hanging. It can be found at the following address:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/articles/IllustratedGuideToEngineHanging/enginehanging.htm.
The same article was published in a the Second Issue of 2001 RVator.
Their step-by-step sequence works. The fourth bolt was still difficult
and required a lot of patience and persistence.
On tightening and torquing the bolts, you will need a variety of 7/16
wrenches. Each nut has different accessibility problems. Typical open
end and sockets will not fit. I found that a Sears short box end wrench
worked well for all nut positions. I ended up cutting a piece out of the
end of the box end to allow removal on the third nut after tightening.
Not enough room between the valve push tube and the mounting ear.
Hope this helps. I'll be glad to discuss further while still fresh in my
mind if you wish.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A FWF
Rick Galati wrote:
>
>
> Within the next two weeks or so, I am expecting a factory new Lycoming
> 0-320-D1A and welcome any tips, advice, or suggestions for avoiding grief or
> needless aggravation in hanging the engine on my 6A as soon as possible.
> Another words, what prep work is advantageous or needs to be done to the engine
> right out of the box, mandatory or otherwise, prior to bolting the powerplant
to
> the engine mount?
>
> --- Rick Galati
>
> --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
Hi Paul,
The "guy in Georgia" is John Stark of Stark Avionics. I purchased my
whole avionics package from him about a year ago. His prices are the
best I have seen. I polled the list before I bought and got all positive
comments. I am very pleased with what I received: GNS-430, GTX-327,
GMA-340 and SL-30.
His address is:
Stark Avionics
Hangar 12
Columbus Metro Airport
Columbus, GA 31909
Ph. 706-321-1008
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A FWF
Paul Brown wrote:
>
>
> A few years ago, while at SNF, I was talking to a guy on the flight line and
he mentioned that if I ever wanted to buy any avionics for my RV I should check
with a guy in Georgia. He said that this guy had the best prices. Does anyone
know of this place. I'm looking to purchase one of UPS's SL40's. The best
price that I could find, so far, is 1245.00
>
> Paul
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Lundquist" <lundquist(at)ieee.org> |
Probably Stark Avionics:
I've done some business with them recently and was very pleased
Dave Lundquist
Telephone
706-321-1008
FAX
706-324-3770
Postal address
5290E ARMOUR ROAD COLUMBUS METRO AIRPORT
COLUMBUS, GA 31909
Electronic mail
General Information: john(at)starkavionics.com
Sales:john(at)starkavionics.com
Customer Support: john(at)starkavionics.com
Webmaster: john(at)starkavionics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <davevon(at)tir.com> |
Charlie's new number is 610-258-4750.
Just got off the phone with him. Sounds like a good guy to do business
with.
Dave
RV-6
The need for speed...
----- Original Message -----
From: "barry pote" <barrypote(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Avionics
>
> Try Charles at Mt Pocono, Pa .....570.839.1181
> 10% over cost or garmin is 30% off their published list and ups is 20%
> off.
> Gave me a great deal.
> Barry Pote RV9a
>
> Paul Brown wrote:
> >
> >
> > A few years ago, while at SNF, I was talking to a guy on the flight line
and he mentioned that if I ever wanted to buy any avionics for my RV I
should check with a guy in Georgia. He said that this guy had the best
prices. Does anyone know of this place. I'm looking to purchase one of
UPS's SL40's. The best price that I could find, so far, is 1245.00
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Targa Strip (and tip-up stuff) |
Norman wrote:
>
>
> How do you get the upper edge of the fairing to have a nice edge? I don't
> see myself sanding away there with one little slip ruining the windscreen. I
> thought I would make the fairing removable for just the first three layers,
> perfect the upper edge, then glue it on and continue glassing on more layers
> while being carfull to never get too near the top edge. Comments?
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
Norman, I applied two or three layers of black electrical tape to the
canopy/fairing edge. It was then possible to feather the edge of the
fairing without damaging the plexi by sanding down to the tape. This
will result in the fairing blending into the canopy so you won't have
the "lip" that you see on the edge of many fairings. Here are details:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/finish3.html
By the way, I removed your note about archiving this thread....can't
imagine why you wouldn't want this info in the archives (even though it
is already there.....). :-)
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Piper Pitot Facts |
Hello
I want to leave my experience with the Piper Pitot for the archives.
I have installed a Piper Pitot 12" from the leading edge in the junction
of the spar and a the 2nd to outboard rib of my RV-8.
1. The pitot mounted STATIC system caused errors and the airspeed
indicator wound read low (20 kts) especially at low speeds.
2. Upon relocating to dual static locations on the aft fuselage (just
behind the rear baggage compartment) all pitot/static instruments now read
correctly.
3. The Piper Pitot is considerably more robust than the stock version and
is built to take abuse by spectators, photographers and line personnel. I
also suspect it is slightly less draggy but have no hard evidence of this.
I hope this helps someone, some time.
Rob Miller -8
N262RM "Bad Cat"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Priming (That was not corrosion) |
Having an old B model 1950 model Bonanza myself and repairing that same
location, that brown muck
down in the belly of the airframe was old greese, oil, dirt and goop
from oil mixed with insulation and dirt that collects in a 50 year old
airplane belly. Also, Beechcraft sprayed a tar based muck in that
location. I dont beleive that was corrosion you saw in the pictures (see
clip below).
.................................................................................
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Priming
I strongly agree with Bob's attached comments. I have used Dupont's
epoxy
primer on all internal parts, including homemade clips, etc.
In the current Sport Aviation is the 2nd part of an article on bringing
a
Beechcraft Bonanza up to current. There is an eye-opening picture with
the
skins off. It looks like someone raked dead leaves over it - brown rash
EVERYWHERE. It's an older model - but I wouldn't ride in a plane with
1/10
that . In the past I don't think that manufacturers expected ANY
plane would last a half century. Today, with modern paints, there is no
reason why EVERY plane could not last much longer. Of course, do not
archive
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 85% Complete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Targa Strip (and tip-up stuff) |
I was out of town all weekend, or I would have been all over this
thread. I am currently doing both the canopy leading edge and a
fiberglass targa strip over the front/ rear split line. The method
described by Sam on his website works like a charm. You do have to be a
bit carefull. Electrical tape is pretty thick and surprisingly tough
against sandpaper, and one thickness is all I used to define the edge,
and sanded the superfil down to it. I am using the same method for the
front edge of the targa strip, which is 5 layers of cloth thick, with
the layers staggered to be only two layers thick at the front edge, and
full thickness at the rear. The glass was roughed up so it would stick
better, and I left every other screw hole open ( I used screws on the
entire canopy in place of rivets) to back drill through them into the
strip when it is finished, for a mechanical bond.
There was an article in the 18 Years of RVater which I don't have just
now, where the author (Ken Scott I think) built his fairing by glassing,
removing, finishing and reapplying as you describe. He recommended
against doing it like this. Also, one slip of the sandpaper will not
really ruin the canopy. Micro mesh works like a charm on these little
booboos (of course, don't ask how I know.)
Jeff Point
RV-6 canopy...still
Milwaukee WI
>
>Norman, I applied two or three layers of black electrical tape to the
>canopy/fairing edge. It was then possible to feather the edge of the
>fairing without damaging the plexi by sanding down to the tape. This
>will result in the fairing blending into the canopy so you won't have
>the "lip" that you see on the edge of many fairings. Here are details:
>
>http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/finish3.html
>
>By the way, I removed your note about archiving this thread....can't
>imagine why you wouldn't want this info in the archives (even though it
>is already there.....). :-)
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy crack :-( |
Listers,
Not a happy subject line. After over two years, flying nearly 500 hrs, my 6A sliding
canopy developed a crack last weekend at one of the aft skirt rivets.
The OAT in Wisconsin was 10-20 deg F, so that probably didn't help. The hangar
was about 65, so maybe the temperature change did it.
I stop-drilled the crack with 1/16" drill. It has about 2" exposed, with a further
inch under the skirt, going through the rivet to the edge of the plexiglass.
Reading the archives, it seems that Weld-on 3 is the thing to use, so I've
ordered some from Spruce.
Here's my question:
After letting the Weld-on 3 wick into the crack, should I dissolve some plexi shavings
in the solvent to make a filler for the 1/16" hole, or should I leave
it open? Anything else I should do?
Regards,
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI
RV-6A, flying 480 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy crack :-( |
Chris,
I have a nearly identical crack in mine near the forward end of the
skirt (on a tip up though) which happened while drilling. I stop
drilled it, used Weldon 3 injected with a medical syringe (it is watery
thin) and let it cure. Then I filled the stop-drill hole with epoxy,
let that cure, and sanded it flush, then used Micro Mesh to fix the
plexi. Turned out, well, not perfect, but not too bad, and better than
a new canopy. A better solution (which I considered but abandoned) may
have been to find or make a plug of plexi for the hole and glue it in
with Weldon, then sand it flush.
I played around quite a bit with the Weldon and scrap plexi. Based on
my very un-scientific testing, it seems that the joint is about 50-75%
as strong as unbroken plexi, judging by the force required to re-break
the fused piece. Pretty amazing stuff. Never did try disolving plexi
shavings though. Certainly I have plenty of them after cutting and
drilling the canopy. I have 99.5% of the one quart can left, and you're
welcome to it if you don't feel like waiting for AC$.
Jeff Point
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Mucker" <matthew(at)mucker.net> |
| Subject: | Builder Locator Database |
All,
Recently, one of the members of the Zenith-list took a cross country trip in
his Zodiac and later found that he'd been mere miles from other Zenith
builders and missed seeing them during his stops. This led to a discussion
about creating a database where homebuilders could look up other builders by
geographic area.
I took on the challenge and have created a Homebuilders Directory at
www.matthewmucker.com/builder_directory.asp. I presented this web-based
database to the Zenith list and have received very positive feedback.
The web server hasn't gone belly-up yet, so in order to stress test the
database, I'd like to invite the RV'ers on the Matronics list to register in
the directory and test it out some. If it survives the RV list, it'll
probably survive anything, and I'll declare the database "live" and commit
to maintaining it and keeping it running.
I am not a member of the RV list, so replies to the list won't get to me.
Please send feedback/compliments/criticism to matthew(at)mucker.net. (I'm away
from the computer until late tonight taking final exams.)
Thanks,
-Matt
P.S. Currently, only ZIP codes and airports in the United States are
supported by the database, as I haven't been able to find latitude/longitude
data for airports and postal codes in other countries. If you know of such
a source, please PLEASE email me! I need it in a flat-file or database
format that I can import into MS Access.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | How to buck two dag-bern rivets |
I'm stumped...there are two rivets on each side rail (canopy deck, whatever
you want to call it) that I just can't buck. One is because the side rail
curls under and prevents me from getting any sort of even modified bucking
bar in there (that I can think of, at least), and the other rivet is
obscured by the top of the F-704 flange.
I put some pictures of the area in question here:
http://www.rvproject.com/bucking_issue.html
Got any advice on how I might buck these rivets, or do most people put blind
rivets in those two spots?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Feedback on Finding an Oil Leak |
Many thanks to all those who provided suggestions on finding the oil leak in
my -4. I ended up using dye from NAPA and an ultraviolet light. The leak,
oddly enough, was a pin hole in an Aeroquip hose that connected the engine
to the firewall-mounted oil transducer. The hose has only about 100 hours
on it. It's one of the ridiculously expensive types with a stainless steel
braid over a polymer tube.
It took me a long time to believe this hose could really be the culprit, but
this past weekend, I removed it and pressure-tested it. I applied about
70psi air to the hose with my compressor and submersed it in a bucket of
water. Sure enough, a steady stream of air exited the tube from an
invisible hole in the center of the line.
I'm looking forward to replacing the line and once again having a clean
engine compartment. Thanks, again for the help.
Dean Pichon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: You're welcome |
JT,
Thanks for your half witted flames. But the Insurance Industry has NEVER come
out on the short end. I and other Californians/Americans are constantly screwed
by these white collar criminals. :
) But seriously, I do think that insurance agents, realtors, attorneys, bartenders,
and politicians profit inappropriately in good and bad times.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: John Helms
Subject: You're welcome
Can you read?
This was a government law that was passed. I was trying to explain it.
Why are you so down on insurance? If you don't want it don't purchase it. If
I am not mistaken, you have requested quotes in the past. You must be a person
who expects the insurance company to offer coverages for you at so low a price
that they lose money. (that by the way is what has gotten us to the point
we're at in this segment of the market... with so few companies left that do aviation
insurance.)
Some people do want it. Insurance provides a useful tool for some people to manage
risk.
Am I using words that are too large for you to understand?
You pay small $, we pay big $ if plane breaks, or you hurt people.
Don't be so negative.
JT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How to buck two dag-bern rivets |
Dan:
Not sure if this will help you, as I could not see if you have enough room
in your pictures.
In several confined areas, I have had success using the base of the smaller
version from a set of machine squares that I purchased from Harbor Freight.
It is small enough and narrow enough to get into some tight squeezes. It is
just heavy enough to whang an occasional elusive rivet.
Hope this helps. Otherwise, the suggestion to use a blind rivet may be the
way to go.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuselage
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: How to buck two dag-bern rivets
>
> I'm stumped...there are two rivets on each side rail (canopy deck,
whatever
> you want to call it) that I just can't buck. One is because the side rail
> curls under and prevents me from getting any sort of even modified bucking
> bar in there (that I can think of, at least), and the other rivet is
> obscured by the top of the F-704 flange.
>
> I put some pictures of the area in question here:
> http://www.rvproject.com/bucking_issue.html
>
> Got any advice on how I might buck these rivets, or do most people put
blind
> rivets in those two spots?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: You're welcome |
I'm glad he left out doctors!!
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fw: You're welcome
>
> JT,
>
> Thanks for your half witted flames. But the Insurance Industry has
NEVER come out on the short end. I and other Californians/Americans are
constantly screwed by these white collar criminals. :
> ) But seriously, I do think that insurance agents, realtors, attorneys,
bartenders, and politicians profit inappropriately in good and bad times.
>
> Chuck
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: John Helms
> To: crabaut(at)coalinga.com
> Subject: You're welcome
>
>
> Can you read?
>
> This was a government law that was passed. I was trying to explain it.
>
> Why are you so down on insurance? If you don't want it don't purchase it.
If I am not mistaken, you have requested quotes in the past. You must be a
person who expects the insurance company to offer coverages for you at so
low a price that they lose money. (that by the way is what has gotten us to
the point we're at in this segment of the market... with so few companies
left that do aviation insurance.)
>
> Some people do want it. Insurance provides a useful tool for some people
to manage risk.
>
> Am I using words that are too large for you to understand?
>
> You pay small $, we pay big $ if plane breaks, or you hurt people.
>
> Don't be so negative.
>
> JT
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Terrorism Act and Insurance- Long |
In a message dated 12/10/02 5:13:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,
crabaut(at)coalinga.com writes:
> Leave it to the Insurance Industry to lead the heroic charge to recede from
> any/all liability/responsibility.
>
>
You guys need to realize that without insurance there would be no commerce. I
hate paying for insurance like everyone else, but without it there would be
no mortgages available for houses, no financing for any commercial
properties, no investments into corporate America. I was an aviation
insurance broker for 27 years and I can state from experience that you cannot
ever accuse the insurance industry of being smart, but without them there
would be no Aviation. Someone has to provide the financial security necessary
for business to operate.
Someone should think what it would be like if everyone had to pay for his own
mistakes and problems out of his own checkbook. Tell me a different way of
doing it I I will beat a path to your door
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How do you put a tire and tube together. |
| From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
How do you put a tire and tube together?
I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in cheek,
soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a few
times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
Cecil Hatfield
I just know I will wake up in the morning and have the answer. Ain't this
list great? Yep, I paid my dues last month for the sixth time in six
years.
Cecil (again)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
>
> How do you put a tire and tube together?
>
> I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in cheek,
> soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a few
> times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
> Cecil Hatfield
Shoot! I don't have the answer. It's always a struggle for me. After you
do get the tube kinda in position it probably pays to put a bit of air in it
to give it shape so it won't get pinched when you bolt the rims together.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Piper Pitot Facts |
>
>Hello
>
>I want to leave my experience with the Piper Pitot for the archives.
>
>I have installed a Piper Pitot 12" from the leading edge in the junction
>of the spar and a the 2nd to outboard rib of my RV-8.
>
>1. The pitot mounted STATIC system caused errors and the airspeed
>indicator wound read low (20 kts) especially at low speeds.
>
>2. Upon relocating to dual static locations on the aft fuselage (just
>behind the rear baggage compartment) all pitot/static instruments now read
>correctly.
>
>3. The Piper Pitot is considerably more robust than the stock version and
>is built to take abuse by spectators, photographers and line personnel. I
>also suspect it is slightly less draggy but have no hard evidence of this.
>
>I hope this helps someone, some time.
>
>Rob Miller -8
>N262RM "Bad Cat"
>
Do you know what part number the pitot tube is, or what model and
year Piper it is off of? There are several different part number
Piper pitot tubes, with different angles on the bottom face to tweak
the pressure sensed by the static source. So we need to be able to
figure out which pitot tube you used in order to make good use of
this info.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 price jump |
After evaluating our costs for the ACS 2002 engine monitor it has become
necessary to increase the price of the units. Since setting a price for the
system we have changed to better quality and expensive EGT probes, CHT
probes, pressure transducers and include a complete wiring harness. We have
been notified by a number of our suppliers that we will have price increases
starting the first of the year.
We have also added a new full time engineer Ken Chard to work on exciting new
features and to help with system manufacturing.
The System comes with the following sensors:
4 EGT Probes
4 CHT Probes
1 Amp Transducer
1 Fuel Pressure Transducer
1 Oil Pressure Transducer
1 Oil Temperature Probe
1 OAT Probe
1 Fuel Flow Transducer
1 Manifold Pressure Transducer
1 Carb Temperature Probe (If Required)
1 RPM Transducer
You will need to supply:
MAC Trim Servo's
MAC Flap Position Sensor
Fuel Tank Sending Units
Micro Switches for Digital Inputs (Canopy, ?)
The system also comes with a laser cut template to make installing the screen
easier.
Sincerely,
Rob Hickman
Advanced Control Systems Inc.
www.Advanced-Control-Systems.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
Use talcum powder (baby powder) inside the tire to lubricate the interface.
At least that's what's recommended for bicycles and motorcycles.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121 fuse
----- Original Message -----
From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: How do you put a tire and tube together.
>
> How do you put a tire and tube together?
>
> I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in cheek,
> soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a few
> times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
> Cecil Hatfield
> I just know I will wake up in the morning and have the answer. Ain't this
> list great? Yep, I paid my dues last month for the sixth time in six
> years.
> Cecil (again)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: How to buck two dag-bern rivets |
Don't know what size rivet you need there as I am just finishing wings. I
discovered a great Cherry-Max called a 3214-4-2 which fits a 40 dimple slick
as h---. Used them on the tight spots on ailerons, flaps,and vert
stab..Ouytfit called aero fasteners in socal has them.. Really saved time and
grinding bucking bars
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: RE: Weight of Hooker Harnesses for RV-8/A? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, just in case anyone else cares, here's the answer I got straight
from the horse's mouth for the weight of a set of Hooker 5 poin military
latch sport harnesses for the RV-8. For comparison sake, the Pac Aero
harnesses (no longer in business) which are virtually identical except
without the pads weigh about 3 lbs 9 oz per seat.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fiberglass until hell freezes over....
--------- Forwarded message ----------
From: "Scott McPhillips" <scott(at)hookerharness.com>
Date: Tue, 10 Dec 2002 14:07:27 -0600
Subject: RE: Weight of Hooker Harnesses for RV-8/A?
Message-ID:
<9B8DC966664D77468670421AA08DD767D189(at)hh2000.hooker-harness.bz>
Dear Mark,
Weight is slightly over 4 pounds per seat (5 point harness with
regular foam padding). Please let me know if you have any other
questions.
Scott McPhillips
Hooker Custom Harness, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: czechsix(at)juno.com [mailto:czechsix(at)juno.com]
Subject: Re: Weight of Hooker Harnesses for RV-8/A?
Hi Scott, thanks for the prompt reply. I was thinking the "standard"
offering for RV-8's....5 point sport harness with military style latch,
4
pads, and the 1 3/4" wide belt size. I don't need dual lap belts or
extra heavy harness material as I don't plan any inverted or otherwise
rigorous aerobatic maneuvers, and I can't afford the very cool rotary
latch.
Thanks,
--Mark
writes:
> Dear Mark,
>
> Which system or you interested in? Weigh will vary based
> on
> type of buckle, pads and harness style? Weigh can range anywhere
> from a
> little over 2 pounds per seat to a little over 8 pounds per seat.
> If I
> know which system you are looking for I can quote you a more
> precise
> weight. Please contact me with any questions.
>
> Regards,
>
> Scott McPhillips
> Hooker Custom Harness, Inc.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: czechsix(at)juno.com [mailto:czechsix(at)juno.com]
> Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2002 11:39 AM
> To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Cc: hoohar(at)mwci.net; czech6(at)hotmail.com
> Subject: Weight of Hooker Harnesses for RV-8/A?
>
>
> Does anybody know how much a set of Hooker harnesses for an RV-8/A
> weighs? I'm just curious if anyone has weighed them or if there's
> a
> published weight number for them.
>
> If anyone has this info for a Rocket or RV-4 it's probably close
> enough
> to me an idea....
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D fiberglass....
>
> ________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
As has been suggested, I put talcum powder in the tire and roll it around
until all of the inside has a coating of powder then dump the excess out.
Put the inner tube in the tire and put enough air in it to get it seated
wrinkle free in the tire, then leave just enough air in it retain it's
shape. This with a little care should allow the two wheel halves to go
together without pinching the tube.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. 6A wings and emp. parts painted.
----- Original Message -----
From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: How do you put a tire and tube together.
>
> How do you put a tire and tube together?
>
> I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in cheek,
> soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a few
> times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
> Cecil Hatfield
> I just know I will wake up in the morning and have the answer. Ain't this
> list great? Yep, I paid my dues last month for the sixth time in six
> years.
> Cecil (again)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How to buck two dag-bern rivets |
You are never going to complete that airplane with such wimpy little swear
words as 'dag-bern'!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | glenn williams <willig10(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
I would suggest you put talcum on the rims as well as
the inside of the tire. DO NOT INFALTE THE TUBE. with
the tube deflated you can better position the tube
around on the inside of the tire away from the rim
that you should already have positioned inside the
tire. Lay the tube inside the tire and position it
away from the lip of the rim. Install the other rim
(make sure the weight mark on the tire is positioned
correctly.) Place the bolts through the holes and push
on the tire to get the nuts started. at this point the
rims will still be seperated and if you have a small
inspection mirror you can look through the bearing
races and ensure the tube is not protruding through
the wheel halves. If for some reason it is. take a
wood dowel and gently push the tube inside the tire
assy. snug up and torque the bolts. Inflate to
pressure and deflate. Do this several times to seat
the tube to the tire.
Glenn Williams
A&P Fort Worth
--- Larry Pardue wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> > How do you put a tire and tube together?
> >
> > I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried,
> carefully, tongue in cheek,
> > soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> > So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or
> girls have done this a few
> > times. Have any of you figured out an easy way
> that works every time?
> > Cecil Hatfield
>
> Shoot! I don't have the answer. It's always a
> struggle for me. After you
> do get the tube kinda in position it probably pays
> to put a bit of air in it
> to give it shape so it won't get pinched when you
> bolt the rims together.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
====
Glenn Williams
8A
A&P
N81GW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Truitt <Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov> |
| Subject: | re: You're Welcome |
C. Rabaut wrote:
" But seriously, I do think that insurance agents, realtors, attorneys,
bartenders, and politicians profit inappropriately in good and bad times."
I can't believe you included bartenders in there. I'm in law enforcement
also. I like bartenders ... especially when bartenders and strippers are
together, it's always a good time. (I only know this because so many
fugitives are found in those places).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
May I ask a silly question?
Can the presence of Talcum powder be abrasive to the tube over time?
Thanks.
Robert
Eustace Bowhay wrote:
>
> As has been suggested, I put talcum powder in the tire and roll it around
> until all of the inside has a coating of powder then dump the excess out.
> Put the inner tube in the tire and put enough air in it to get it seated
> wrinkle free in the tire, then leave just enough air in it retain it's
> shape. This with a little care should allow the two wheel halves to go
> together without pinching the tube.
>
> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. 6A wings and emp. parts painted.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: How do you put a tire and tube together.
>
> >
> > How do you put a tire and tube together?
> >
> > I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in cheek,
> > soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> > So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a few
> > times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
> > Cecil Hatfield
> > I just know I will wake up in the morning and have the answer. Ain't this
> > list great? Yep, I paid my dues last month for the sixth time in six
> > years.
> > Cecil (again)
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Kramer" <JRKramer(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 KIT FOR SALE |
RV8 empennage and wing kit for sale. Inquire at 623-202-8223
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eugene Williams" <Ewill177(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine installation |
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Dudley
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine installation
Hi Rick,
I just hung my 0-320-D1A last weekend. I found the "Illustrated Guide to
Engine Hanging" very helpful in both preparation of the engine and the
actual hanging. It can be found at the following address:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/articles/IllustratedGuideToEngineHanging/enginehanging.htm.
The same article was published in a the Second Issue of 2001 RVator.
Their step-by-step sequence works. The fourth bolt was still difficult
and required a lot of patience and persistence.
On tightening and torquing the bolts, you will need a variety of 7/16
wrenches. Each nut has different accessibility problems. Typical open
end and sockets will not fit. I found that a Sears short box end wrench
worked well for all nut positions. I ended up cutting a piece out of the
end of the box end to allow removal on the third nut after tightening.
Not enough room between the valve push tube and the mounting ear.
Hope this helps. I'll be glad to discuss further while still fresh in my
mind if you wish.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A FWF
Rick Galati wrote:
>
>
> Within the next two weeks or so, I am expecting a factory new Lycoming
> 0-320-D1A and welcome any tips, advice, or suggestions for avoiding grief or
> needless aggravation in hanging the engine on my 6A as soon as possible.
> Another words, what prep work is advantageous or needs to be done to the engine
> right out of the box, mandatory or otherwise, prior to bolting the powerplant
to
> the engine mount?
>
> --- Rick Galati
>
> --- rick07x(at)earthlink.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
Tire shops use powder, without it the tubes tend to stick to the inside of
the tire when they are removed.
Eustace
----- Original Message -----
From: "Miller Robert" <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: How do you put a tire and tube together.
>
> May I ask a silly question?
> Can the presence of Talcum powder be abrasive to the tube over time?
> Thanks.
> Robert
>
> Eustace Bowhay wrote:
>
> >
> > As has been suggested, I put talcum powder in the tire and roll it
around
> > until all of the inside has a coating of powder then dump the excess
out.
> > Put the inner tube in the tire and put enough air in it to get it seated
> > wrinkle free in the tire, then leave just enough air in it retain it's
> > shape. This with a little care should allow the two wheel halves to go
> > together without pinching the tube.
> >
> > Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. 6A wings and emp. parts painted.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: How do you put a tire and tube together.
> >
> > >
> > > How do you put a tire and tube together?
> > >
> > > I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in
cheek,
> > > soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> > > So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a
few
> > > times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
> > > Cecil Hatfield
> > > I just know I will wake up in the morning and have the answer. Ain't
this
> > > list great? Yep, I paid my dues last month for the sixth time in six
> > > years.
> > > Cecil (again)
> > >
> > >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "KostaLewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | How do you put a tire and tube together. |
>May I ask a silly question? Can the presence of Talcum powder be
abrasive >to the tube over time?
I don't believe so. If there is a great gob of it left in the tire, it
can probably change the balance. There have been rumors that the perfume
in baby powder can break down the rubber in the tube but I doubt that
also as I have used baby powder for several decades without a tube
coming apart.
SO: put a shake or two of powder (I believe you can get tire talc at Pep
Boys etc if you don't want your tires to smell like a baby's butt) and
coat the inside of the tire. Shake the excess out. Deflate the tube and
slip it in, then add some air to the tube, just enough to give it some
shape. Put the tube stem where the RED TRIANGLE is on the tire for
balance. Push the wheel halves together and run the bolts in. If there
is just enough air in the tube the wheel slips right together without
pinching the tube. Bolt the wheel together and torque the bolts. Make
sure the bolts are torqued before you put air pressure in the tube as
the wheel can come apart if not properly bolted together. Inflate to
proper pressure 5 or so pounds at a time, bouncing the tire around
between. Then deflate the tube and reinflate to the proper pressure
(different for everyone; I use 29 pounds to avoid shimmy). Why deflate
the tire? I don't know; Dale taught me to do it that way and he was
pretty smart about most things aircraft. He said it helps prevent the
tube from wrinkling inside the tire.
The tire guys recommend a new tube every time you change tires.
Depending on the age of the tube, every other or third time may be
adequate.
IMHO
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:How do you put a tire and tube together |
I have used talcum powder for 40+ years with no problems.
I always air the tube to its full shape , powder the inside of the tube , and
put the wheel half with valve stem on the bench. I then push down on the
other half until the halves come tohether . You can tell if the halves have
the tube between them this way . Hold the halves together while installing
the bolts - with help if necessary .
I used 30# in my 985 # RV-4. It bleeds down over time . The posts on the RV-4
list explain how to do access holes for checking pressure.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X
Charleston,Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randall Henderson" <randallh(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 price jump |
Yeah its too bad he had to raise the price, but I know Rob and I'm sure he's
done it out of necessity, and isn't out to gouge anybody.
The ACS2002 is expensive, but we're talking about a really nice glass-panel
engine and aircraft systems monitor that is as complete and well-presented
as anything out there. I think if you looked at what you get and figured out
how to get all of that with other systems the cost maybe makes more sense.
(Maybe Rob will do a comparison sometime with what you'd pay for similar
functionality from EI, VMI, etc.?) Granted, most of us don't NEED all that
stuff. I know there are plenty of guys who learned how to fly in cubs with a
wire-on-a-cork for fuel an oil pressure gauge in the cockpit, and thats
still good enough for them. But more and more of us are looking for
comprehensive, well-presented aircraft monitoring systems, and this is a
top-end model. I guess you gotta pay for the best!
I have steam gauges now but I intend to upgrade my panel eventually, and
when I do I definitely plan to put one of Rob's units in there.
Randall Henderson, RV-6 N6R (~450 hrs)
Portland, OR
www.vanshomewing.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV Seat Belts/Harnesses |
I'm looking at an upgrade on my -8 seat belts, and drawing a blank on the
better lines of harnesses available out there. Any suggestions? How about
Simpson Racing products? Seems like a nice looking harness for about
$165/set.
Thanks
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | How do you put a tire and tube together. |
Cecil,
I used a couple of strips of cloth strung through between the hub and
the tire/tube to keep from pinching the tube as you tighten the bolts. Then
just pull the strips out.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: How do you put a tire and tube together.
>
> How do you put a tire and tube together?
>
> I mean without pinching the tube. I've tried, carefully, tongue in cheek,
> soft cajoling words and polite curse words so far.
> So I figure some of you thousands of guys, or girls have done this a few
> times. Have any of you figured out an easy way that works every time?
> Cecil Hatfield
> I just know I will wake up in the morning and have the answer. Ain't this
> list great? Yep, I paid my dues last month for the sixth time in six
> years.
> Cecil (again)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Engine installation |
What a palaver!-- by the group that installed the engine per the web link
provided by Eugene Williams in response to this thread! I saw the original
article in the RVator but didn't bother to respond to it, because except for
my cowling hinge article, other things I wrote to Van's were never
acknowledged. (The "NIH" factor perhaps?) Anyway, as I outlined in my
posting of 12/1, I installed my engine by MYSELF WITHOUT ANY HELP and it was
easy. Getting those first two bolts installed is difficult. Check the
posting with the subject titled "Engine mount holes and installing
it"--------Cheers!! ------- Henry Hore.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you put a tire and tube together. |
I was a motorcycle dealer for 30 years. If one of my mechanics forgot to
put a 'puff' of air in a tube, and he pinched it...HE PAID FOR THE
TUBE!.
The idea is to ge enough for it to just barely hold it's shape. That
positions the tube a little and gets it out of some bad places. You must
still exercise care.
Barry Pote RV9a
>
> This thread is like so many.
>
> Depending on who you believe, it is quite important to put some air in
> the tube to prevent pinching or it is really important to not put any air
> in the tube to prevent pinching.
>
> It seems like a majority of the time such contradictory opinions are
> expressed in reply to a request for help.
>
> Makes me wonder sometimes how much help the list really is? Maybe we
> should just do what we think.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <rv4bell(at)door.net> |
There is a tire talc. I bought it years ago for use on my 1949 A35 Bonanza.
Brand name is Camel Tire Talc. Made by H.B. Egan Manufacturing Company,
Muskogee, Oklahoma 74401. I use it on my Bonanza and my RV4. Follow the
instructions and no problems!
Happy Holidays to All!
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 # 2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 price jump |
I have researched the ACS2002 and feel it is about as good as anything out
there right now. I ordered it just before the price increased. Lucky I
guess. ACS has about a 12 week delivery window if anyone is interested. I
had asked Bob at ACS several questions and he was always very prompt.
Another thing I liked about the system is the fuel gauge that compensates
for the tail wheel attitude.
I figured out early if Vans believes in them enough to list their product,
they are a sound investment. I am looking forward to 2003 when I install
it.
Indiana Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Terrorism Act and Insurance- Long |
Yes I realize the NEED is there... I just dislike the corrupt folks who
profit obscenely from the misery of folks they force to pay excessive rates
for something this necessary.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Smcm75(at)aol.com>
>
> > Leave it to the Insurance Industry to lead the heroic charge to recede
from
> > any/all liability/responsibility.
>
> You guys need to realize that without insurance there would be no
commerce. I
> hate paying for insurance like everyone else, but without it there would
be
> no mortgages available for houses, no financing for any commercial
> properties, no investments into corporate America. I was an aviation
> insurance broker for 27 years and I can state from experience that you
cannot
> ever accuse the insurance industry of being smart, but without them there
> would be no Aviation. Someone has to provide the financial security
necessary
> for business to operate.
>
> Someone should think what it would be like if everyone had to pay for his
own
> mistakes and problems out of his own checkbook. Tell me a different way of
> doing it I I will beat a path to your door
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Unloading new Lycoming from the freight truck |
In a message dated 12/10/02 4:41:52 AM Pacific Standard Time,
ripsteel(at)edge.net writes:
<< I would imagine the engine is strapped to the pallet that is the base for
the
box- cut a hole in the top of the box large enough to attach your crane to
the
lifting strap, hook it up & hoist away? No idea if this would work, but
worth
looking at? >>
The only problem with this is that the new engines from Van's with long term
storage are sealed in an airtight plastic bag. To get at the lifting strap
you would have to tear/cut a hole in the bag. I was not willing to do that
but I was lucky enough to have the engine delivered by a truck with a lift
gate. Can you round up three or four buddies to help lift it off the truck?
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
John Stark, 706-321-1008 or jts(at)mindspring.com. He is a great guy to do
business with. It's also in the Yeller Pages.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, electrical (still)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Santa's Check Ride.....Not RV Related |
Santa's Check Ride
It is a little known fact that Santa has to keep his pilot's license
current
in order to make his deliveries every year,and so the old man wasn't too
surprised when he got a letter from the FAA informing him that an examiner
would be appearing shortly to run him through the usual recertification
drill.
A detail of elves was sent out to wash and polish the sleigh, another group
was assigned to inspect,service,and repair all the tack,and a third squad
started curry-combing the reindeer. Santa himself got out his logbook and
the rest of the paperwork and made sure that it was all in order.
On the appointed day the examiner arrived, and after the ritual cup of
coffee, he went over Santa's log and the paperwork, then followed Santa
outside. After a meticulous review of Santa's weight and balance
calculations, the examiner watched Santa do the preflight, then followed
behind him, looking closely at everything from the bells on the back of the
sleigh to Rudolph's nose. When he finished, he turned to Santa and
said:"It
looks pretty good so far. Let me get one thing out of my bags and then
we'll
take her up."
When the examiner got back, Santa was in the sleigh and ready to taxi. As
the
examiner climbed into the sleigh, Santa noticed that he was carrying a
shotgun. "What's THAT for?" Santa asked. The examiner looked at him, then
winked: "I really shouldn't tell you this, but you're going to lose an
engine
on takeoff."
Merry Christmas - -
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Terrorism Act and Insurance- Long |
Problem is that for years the companies have actually charged less than what
they pay out in claims, and that was o.k. with them. They got there $ up
front, and were making their profit in the stock market. Now that there is
no profit to be had there, they have been forced to make an underwriting
profit (charge more in premiums than they pay out in claims.)
By the way, I did take it personally (your 1st email) and that may have been
my fault. (so really you did pick this fight.) :-) But if I was on some
cop chat room and posted that all cops are bad (which they aren't) just
because I had a bad experience with one, I think you would take offense.
And again, it appears that you are generalizing your experience as bad
because you are ignorant (means you don't know or understand... not how
intended how it sounds) of how insurance works. And by the way all types of
insurance is the same, they evaluate you as a risk based on your accident
history whether they paid out the claim or some other company did. The
problem that you keep referring to is that the aviation insurance industry
has only 8 players in it. They will not compete with each other on a risk
that another company is still willing to write for a couple of years after a
significant claim has been paid.
You keep calling this collusion. Even if you went to a different company,
they still would be surcharging you for the claim. If your agent has done
his job well, you should be with the best price and value for your risk that
exists. So why not pay them back a little? Why are you in such an all
fired hurry to rush away from that company which did it's duty under the
insurance contract and paid your claim?
So, your argument is flawed. You are trying to say that people who have
made claims should not pay more (even for 3 years) than those with a clean
record. If this were true, then YOU would be artificially raising everyone
elses premiums (even those with clean records.) Do you understand?
Yes, I hope to write policies for RV owners. We created a program for them
and administer it for Van. It has preferential rates. We have a very
profitable business selling aircraft policies to all types of light aircraft
owners. You being a public servant, you may not understand that many of us
out there don't survive on tax money. We must make/sell/service things for
$ to survive.
I don't think anyone can accuse me of abusing my presence here on this list.
I have never directly solicited business on this site. I think that part of
my service to my customers (and even those who aren't) to be present here
and educate them about insurance if they have misconceptions (you) or
questions.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Fw: Fw: RV-List: Terrorism Act and Insurance- Long
Yes I realize the NEED is there... I just dislike the corrupt folks who
profit obscenely from the misery of folks they force to pay excessive rates
for something this necessary.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Smcm75(at)aol.com>
>
> > Leave it to the Insurance Industry to lead the heroic charge to recede
from
> > any/all liability/responsibility.
>
> You guys need to realize that without insurance there would be no
commerce. I
> hate paying for insurance like everyone else, but without it there would
be
> no mortgages available for houses, no financing for any commercial
> properties, no investments into corporate America. I was an aviation
> insurance broker for 27 years and I can state from experience that you
cannot
> ever accuse the insurance industry of being smart, but without them there
> would be no Aviation. Someone has to provide the financial security
necessary
> for business to operate.
>
> Someone should think what it would be like if everyone had to pay for his
own
> mistakes and problems out of his own checkbook. Tell me a different way of
> doing it I I will beat a path to your door
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy frame |
>
> I am stuck; the frame for my canopy does not
>fit well with one side of the fuselage.
I had to cut and re-weld mine to make it fit. It was about 3/8 inch too
wide. Trying to mash it in makes it go up and it is already too high.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine |
Questions
>
> The normal aircraft engine is about 1/2 HP per cubic inch.....
>Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP for long periods of
>time as are aircraft engines.
Where do you get this information, Dave? Is 1/2 HP per cubic inch
considered "high .."? My Lyc O360 has **NEVER** put out 1/2 HP per cubic
inch since I have never been lower than about 500 MSL. I have flown at sea
level and even below but then not at WOT. Most of the hours on my plane
are at %50 or less.
Can you point me to a document written or at least authorized by the
designer that says "Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP
for long periods of time"?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Engine installation]CORRECTION |
Rick Galati,
I must correct one error I made in my response to your inquiry about
engine installation. The wrench size for the 4 nuts is not 7/16" but is
5/8".
The nuts holding the vacuum pump to the engine are 7/16".
Richard Dudley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris <chrisw3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative EngineQuestions |
kempthornes wrote:
> Can you point me to a document written or at least authorized by the
> designer that says "Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP
> for long periods of time"?
I don't know about how they are actually designed but while going 80 mph down
the highway my vehicle is using a very small percentage of the 160 HP it is
supposed to put out. And since most of the time your car is in this power
range it would make sense that they are designed for that. Most people don't
use anywhere near max. horse power even when they are accelerating to highway
speeds. I'm not most those people though :)
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206 (home)
chrisw(at)programmer.net
N35? 20.492'
W97? 34.342'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
> >
> >Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP for long periods of
> >time as are aircraft engines.
Even if that were true (which it isn't; refer to
http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/eng_auto_endurance.shtml), what matters
is what the engine CAN do, regardless of the design intent. This is where
Van's famous auto-engine-designer-banging-head-on-desk argument falls down.
Automotive engines have been successfully used in airplanes, boats, water
pumps, stationary generators, and many, many other uses, as have airplane
engines. The suggestion that an engine can't work well in one application only
because it was originally designed for another is nonsense, and is successfully
ignored daily.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
I always thought the difference between auto engines and aircraft engines
was mainly that if you car is unreliable, you may have to walk home but if
your aircraft engine is unreliable you get to ride in the hearse.
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on windscreen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
| Subject: | sliders & tip-up |
Doc asked: Does anyone sell a pre-made lid for these things?
No
Doc asked: Why are the ones in Van's kits so difficult to build?
Because by the time you get to that point, all the little errors have
made each one a custom fit.
Doc asked: Would a well made lid from one RV6 fit another RV6 or is
there a high degree of variability from one plane to another?
See previous answer.
Doc asked: Finally, is one style (slider vs tip-up) safer than the
other?
Ahhh, let the arguments begin. (hehehe) Personally, I'd say it's a
toss-up.
Doc said: Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. I'm learning as quickly
as I can! Thanks for your input.
No problem. Asking questions is what it's all about (and you thought it
was just sweaty exercise...building an airplane, you gutterminds!
)
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Fuselage on hold for holiday cleaning and
guests...
Archive (or not, for all I care)...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <albert.gardner(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sliders & tip-up |
I built a slider and while I don't think it was all that difficult, it
wasn't easy either. Making the canopy fit like I wanted was time consuming
but I finally got there and moved on. Now, making the paint look good is
difficult!
Albert Gardner, Yuma, AZ
RV-9A: N872RV
Working on windscreen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | While you guys were complaining about Insurance companies.... |
While you guys spent your time today complaining about Insurance
companies....
I went for a ride in an F16!!!! Wow, What a machine!!!!!!!
The good news is, it just further confirmed what I already knew, the RVs fly
like fighters.
The bad news is, the grin I've got makes an RV-grin look pretty lame.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Natedanna(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Remove Me From List |
Please remove me from the list and stop future e mails.
It has been most informative and I thank you very much
Nate D'Anna
natedanna(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
After a great day, flying in the F-16, my email included some bad news. Ed
Jungst built an RV-6 and an RV-8 and was a member of this list at different
times. He was a great guy and just like me, he went for a ride in a cool
airplane. His ride did not go so well.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
Minneapolis Star-Tribune
Published Dec. 11, 2002 MNPlaneCrash
GLENWOOD, Minn. - State and federal investigators were trying Wednesday to
determine why a single-engine plane crashed, killing two men near Glenwood
in west-central Minnesota.
The Pope County sheriff's office identified them as Eberhard Engel, 59, of
Alexandria, and Edwin Jungst, 70, of Glenwood. They were dead at the scene,
and their bodies were sent to the Hennepin County medical examiner for
autopsies.
It wasn't immediately clear which man was at the controls when the T-28
crashed in a pasture and plowed field around 1 p.m. Tuesday.
The T-28 is high-powered Korean War-era trainer converted to civilian use. A
witness reported the crash. The plane had taken off from the Glenwood
airport around 12:50 p.m., Sheriff Tom Larson said.
The crash site is north of the Glenwood Airport, near Lake Amelia, about
seven miles from Glenwood.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Taylor" <david(at)hom.net> |
| Subject: | I took the plunge |
Well,
After 2 years of research I finally ordered my tail kit (RV-7) yesterday along
with the 21 years of the RVator and a 2003 subscription to the RVator. I'm looking
forward to getting started but you can bet I'll need lots of help.
-David Taylor (N207DT reserved)
empennage on order (finally)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sliders & tip-up |
>
>Hey Guys,
>
>snipped stuff....
>
>Finally, is one style (slider vs tip-up) safer than the other?
>
>Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. I'm learning as quickly as I
>can! Thanks for your input.
>
>Doc
>
Doc,
No stupid questions. This has been covered in the archives quite a
bit (you DO know about the archives....RIGHT?)
Anyway, I have my own opinion which I think is safer, but you might
read these two stories and make up your own mind.
The tip up story at Sam's great RV Journal site:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/bird.html
The slider story at Dougs great Vansairforce.net site:
http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/articles/howtoruinyourwindshield.htm
BTW, the pictures link at the bottom of the story is obsolete. New one is:
http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/429051/guest.phtml
Which canopy looked like it stood up to the impact better????
Laird (callsign "Lucky")
RV-6 SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative EngineQuestions |
The O-360 is designed to to put out 180 hp (which is half of 360) FULL TIME.
Whether you choose to run it that way or not, it is designed for that and is
capable of doing it FULL TIME.
In order to get 100% of available power out of your car engine you will have to
turn it at redline rpm at wide open throttle (like pulling a heavy trailer up a
hill ). I don't know what kind of cars you drive but I've never had one that
I'd trust to do that full time.
No, 1/2 hp per ci is not high, if fact it's pretty low especially by automotive
standards. Ratings closer to 1 hp per ci are closer to the norm. But, that
makes the point. The aircraft engine is very underrated. You could probably
make a few changes to the O-360, turn it at twice the rpm and get 360 hp out of
it. By the same token, a Continental O-200 can be made to put out 200 hp -
quite common at Reno, but it won't last very long.
The bottom line is that aircraft engine ratings are very conservative and the
result is that they are very reliable.
This IS experimental aviation and I think it's great that people are working
with auto engines - maybe someday they'll be viable aircraft engines, but for
now don't put one on your airplane and expect the reliability of a Lyc. but, DO
have fun EXPERIMENTING! :-)
Dave, Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, RV6, O-360
kempthornes wrote:
>
> >
> > The normal aircraft engine is about 1/2 HP per cubic inch.....
> >Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP for long periods of
> >time as are aircraft engines.
>
> Where do you get this information, Dave? Is 1/2 HP per cubic inch
> considered "high .."? My Lyc O360 has **NEVER** put out 1/2 HP per cubic
> inch since I have never been lower than about 500 MSL. I have flown at sea
> level and even below but then not at WOT. Most of the hours on my plane
> are at %50 or less.
>
> Can you point me to a document written or at least authorized by the
> designer that says "Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP
> for long periods of time"?
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: While you guys were complaining about Insurance companies.... |
Doug,
I hate you even more now. :-)
How did you rate a ride in the F-16?
If you ever get to Apple Valley, CA., you can't have a ride in my
underpowered unpainted rocket
I won't want to get that grin off your face.
9G's sure pulls your socks down. Did you stay awake?
Tom Gummo
Apple Valley, CA
HR-II #78 to fly
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: RV-List: While you guys were complaining about Insurance
companies....
>
> While you guys spent your time today complaining about Insurance
> companies....
>
> I went for a ride in an F16!!!! Wow, What a machine!!!!!!!
>
> The good news is, it just further confirmed what I already knew, the RVs
fly
> like fighters.
>
> The bad news is, the grin I've got makes an RV-grin look pretty lame.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
> > >
> > >Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP for long periods of
> > >time as are aircraft engines.
>
> Even if that were true (which it isn't; refer to
> http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/eng_auto_endurance.shtml),
Well Ted, all that article tells me is that Chrysler did a good job of testing
1
special engine. It says nothing about testing the rest of the line, and I doubt
that most folks are going to use a V10 in their RV anyway. That engine is a very
special engine developed for a very expensive car, not like the lower end V6's
that
are being used in airplanes.
Show us how Chevy and Ford test the V6's that are being used in airplanes and show
us also that they can be run at REDLINE & WOT, reliably, on a continuous basis
and
you might get more converts.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sliders & tip-up |
Laird Owens wrote:
>
>
> >
> >Hey Guys,
> >
> >snipped stuff....
> >
> >Finally, is one style (slider vs tip-up) safer than the other?
> >
> >Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions. I'm learning as quickly as I
> >can! Thanks for your input.
> >
> >Doc
> >
>
> Doc,
>
> No stupid questions. This has been covered in the archives quite a
> bit (you DO know about the archives....RIGHT?)
>
> Anyway, I have my own opinion which I think is safer, but you might
> read these two stories and make up your own mind.
>
> The tip up story at Sam's great RV Journal site:
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/bird.html
>
> The slider story at Dougs great Vansairforce.net site:
>
> http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/articles/howtoruinyourwindshield.htm
>
> BTW, the pictures link at the bottom of the story is obsolete. New one is:
>
> http://members3.clubphoto.com/socal230330/429051/guest.phtml
>
> Which canopy looked like it stood up to the impact better????
>
> Laird (callsign "Lucky")
> RV-6 SoCal
The links Lucky Laird (aka Birdman) referenced are indeed sobering to
those of us who like to occassionally make a low pass down the runway.
We had a local RV-4 pilot take a hawk in the upper cowling and the bird
destroyed the cowl...sure am glad it missed the canopy!
Please don't base your decision on which canopy to build purely on the
two bird strike stories. Perri had to kick his way out of the canopy of
his overturned RV-6, so the comparison of damages is not very equitable.
:-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JhnstnIII(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: sliders & tip-up |
The slider/tip-up mod is at www.aircraftextras.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative EngineQuestions |
> The aircraft engine is very underrated. You could probably
> make a few changes to the O-360, turn it at twice the rpm and get 360 hp out
of
> it.
Not really. The Lycoming wouldn't be able to do 5400 RPM for very long, if at
all. It would take extensive modifications to the valvetrain alone just to
avoid float, if you could even do it.
But you missed the important insight, which is that an auto conversion doesn't
have to run at such high RPM, and the engine WILL put out good power at more
modest RPMs for a very, very long time. If you run an auto engine at the same
manifold pressure and piston speed as a Lycoming, guess what, it will last as
long (possibly longer, since water cooling allows a better piston-to-cylinder
fit and avoids many thermal problems). For a comparison of a 160-HP 4.3 Chevy
and an O-320 see
http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/chevy.html
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: I Took the Plunge |
You will need help to get started if you aren't REALLY familiar with aircraft
sheet metal work. Get an experienced aircraft metal person to help you
through the tail feathers - then it's pretty well repetition after that .
I made some mistakes when I started , and built another horizontal stabilizer
. That can get costly -- and disappointing !!
Good Luck , You made a good choice ,
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
> Well Ted, all that article tells me is that Chrysler did a good job of testing
1
> special engine.
There's nothing specail about the V10, and the Chrysler test was TYPICAL, of
auto industry testing, that's the whole point of the article. In fact, the
test described in the article was an abbreviated test, as the article says.
Tests of some engines are even more extensive.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
> us also that they can be run at REDLINE & WOT, reliably, on a continuous basis
and
> you might get more converts.
(a) You don't run them at redline, you run them well below.
(b) I'm not looking for converts, just seeking to dispel myths.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Single strobe power |
Like a few other have said, check out Strobes-n-More for a Nova EPS 402
power supply. It's a 40 Watt, 2 head supply.
I'd also recommend you look up Eric Henson's post on using the Nova
strobe products. We have their XPAK 904 powering the wing tip strobes
and the EPS 402 for the tail. We gave in and used the Whelen combo lights.
Jim Duckett, N708JD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark and Sabina Gilbert <msgilbert(at)attbi.com> |
| Subject: | Aero Electric Connection; Still in Business? |
Is the Aero Electric Connection still in business? I ordered the shrink
wrapped electrical guide on November 23rd, and 18 days later it still has
not arrived, even though I received a confirming email the day I placed the
order stating that it would be sent by priority mail. I didn't get a
response to my email to Bob Nuckoll's site inquiring about the order status
either. Any clues out there?
Mark
Sacramento
RV6A, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roy Glass or Mary Poteet <rlglass(at)alaska.net> |
This morning's paper had this obituary for Bryan E. Files, a previous
active participant on the RV list.
Palmer resident and pilot BRYAN EVERETT FILES, 37, died Nov. 13, 2002,
in San Andreas, Calif. A memorial service will be at 2 p.m. Sunday at
the Alaska Aviation Heritage Museum, 4721 Aircraft Drive in Anchorage.
Mr. Files was born June 18, 1965, in San Francisco. He was a 15-year
resident of Alaska and a previous resident of San Andreas. He had worked
as a pilot for Lynden Air Cargo. Mr. Files is survived by his wife,
Susan E. Files, and daughter, Beth Anne Files, both of Alaska... In lieu
of flowers, the family has requested that donations be made to Alaska
Aviation Heritage Museum in Mr. Files' name.
Preliminary NTSB report at:
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 021127X05538&key=1
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Kramer" <JRKramer(at)cox.net> |
RV8 empennage and wing kit for sale in Arizona. Cut some building time
down!! Empennage is completed and left wing is 65% complete. Heated
pitot tube. Asking $5000. We can discuss pick-up or delivery options.
Also have tools, all plans, video, and building manual. 623-202-8223
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> |
| Subject: | While you guys were complaining about Insurance companies.... |
Doug,
How in the heck did you finagle the ride?
Jack Textor
RV8, wings
DSM
While you guys spent your time today complaining about Insurance
companies....
I went for a ride in an F16!!!! Wow, What a machine!!!!!!!
The good news is, it just further confirmed what I already knew, the RVs fly
like fighters.
The bad news is, the grin I've got makes an RV-grin look pretty lame.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: While you guys were complaining about Insurance |
companies....
Hi Guys:
Off topic, but:
I'm reading with fond memories your F-16 ride. (Pardon the intrusion on your
RV list... I'm a lurker from the Zenith side, building a VSTOL701) I am an
aviation artist with stuff in many collections including USAF Art Program. The
F-16 ride I had was due to that connection. My 45 minutes of fame turned out
to be an hour and 45 minutes and over an hour of it actual stick time. After
the typical drill weapons delivery they gave me some initial stick time
including some aerobatics. I got to dog fight our flight leader got "Dolphin
I" once he got me three times. Then a civil emergency, a dead pilot with a
female non pilot in a Cherokee had dropped below radar coverage south of
Tampa. Our radar found her and "Dolphin I" formatted on her starboard side
and flew the to a landing at some strip in the Everglades. I wound up with an
hour and forty five minutes of dual in my log book Amazing to see an F-16,
with everything hung out, slow flight down to 70 or 80 miles an hour standing
on thrust alone, side of a Piper.
Hal
theplanefolks.net
Tom Gummo wrote:
>
> Doug,
>
> I hate you even more now. :-)
> How did you rate a ride in the F-16?
> If you ever get to Apple Valley, CA., you can't have a ride in my
> underpowered unpainted rocket
> I won't want to get that grin off your face.
> 9G's sure pulls your socks down. Did you stay awake?
>
> Tom Gummo
> Apple Valley, CA
> HR-II #78 to fly
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: While you guys were complaining about Insurance
> companies....
>
> >
> > While you guys spent your time today complaining about Insurance
> > companies....
> >
> > I went for a ride in an F16!!!! Wow, What a machine!!!!!!!
> >
> > The good news is, it just further confirmed what I already knew, the RVs
> fly
> > like fighters.
> >
> > The bad news is, the grin I've got makes an RV-grin look pretty lame.
> >
> > Tailwinds,
> > Doug Rozendaal
> >
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
Absolutely correct.
Good example: In Italy, I had a chance to investigate co-generators. These were
devised with Fiat auto engines. Run on natural gas. Produce electricity, heat
and hot water for an apartment building. Run continuously at static RPM. Kind
of
like flying along in cruise, I guess. Co-generators are wonderfully sensible and
simple solutions to energy production. That's not what those engines were
designed for, but they perform the task well just the same.
My car, when I lived there, was a Fiat 124 with propane tanks in the trunk. There
was a switch on the dash to allow using either gasoline or propane... and you
could switch on the fly as you desired.
I know of no reason why a modern properly equipped and engineered piston engine
should, on its face, be considered unsuitable for flight. Many may be more
suitable, it seems to me, than what are accepted as "airplane engines".
The idea that some magical thing enters the design if the designer is simply
thinking about airplanes is a bit overblown, I think.
Robert
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
> > >
> > >Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP for long periods of
> > >time as are aircraft engines.
>
> Even if that were true (which it isn't; refer to
> http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/eng_auto_endurance.shtml), what matters
> is what the engine CAN do, regardless of the design intent. This is where
> Van's famous auto-engine-designer-banging-head-on-desk argument falls down.
> Automotive engines have been successfully used in airplanes, boats, water
> pumps, stationary generators, and many, many other uses, as have airplane
> engines. The suggestion that an engine can't work well in one application only
> because it was originally designed for another is nonsense, and is successfully
> ignored daily.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
> -6 wings
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Single strobe power |
I'm curious. Why use two power supplies when the XPAK 904 will power all
three heads? Also where did you mount the XPAK 904, it was a tad bigger
than I thought that it would be. I was considering mounting it just aft of
the baggage compartment bulkhead, but I'm not sure if mounting something to
the J-stringers is such a good idea.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach
RV-7
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Duckett" <perfeng(at)3rivers.net>
Subject: RV-List: Single strobe power
>
> Like a few other have said, check out Strobes-n-More for a Nova EPS 402
> power supply. It's a 40 Watt, 2 head supply.
> I'd also recommend you look up Eric Henson's post on using the Nova
> strobe products. We have their XPAK 904 powering the wing tip strobes
> and the EPS 402 for the tail. We gave in and used the Whelen combo
lights.
>
> Jim Duckett, N708JD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Bryan,
I bought the Simpson belts and am quite pleased with them. Order p/n 29063 and
you most likely will be quite happy. It is a pull down to tighten, 2" webbing
model that will bolt in AND has the right fittings included for the pilot's
shoulder harness, i.e. to wrap around the pilot seat roll bar.
DO NOT order the Latch F/X model as the buckle is too bulky, IMHO. The camloc
looks nice but is too much $$$.
Vince Frazier
1946 Stinson, NC97535, flying
F-1H Rocket, "Six Shooter", N540VF reserved,
canopy installation stage
<http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html>
From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV Seat Belts/Harnesses
I'm looking at an upgrade on my -8 seat belts, and drawing a blank on the
better lines of harnesses available out there. Any suggestions? How about
Simpson Racing products? Seems like a nice looking harness for about
$165/set.
Thanks
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative |
EngineQuestions
>For a comparison of a 160-HP 4.3 Chevy
>and an O-320 see
>
> http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/chevy.html
Nice to see a reference, Tedd, even if it is to your own article! A very
nice article it is too.
Durability of the auto engine conversion is a question yet to be answered
since we really don't have the history of operation in aircraft which is
certainly a different mode. However, if it can only last half as long,
1000 hours, overhaul is simple and very cheap.
Reliability is a more critical issue and may be what really concerns
builders. By reliability I mean the ability of the engine to make it to
TBO. I am inclined to believe that most engines that can make full power
for several minutes will give some signs before outright failure. A
feature of the rotary engine, I am told, is that their usual failure mode
is that they fail to start.
Of course, most of the forced landings of alternate engine aircraft that we
hear of are due to the failure of the accessories or the installation
rather than the basic or core engine.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative |
EngineQuestions
>
>The O-360 is designed to to put out 180 hp (which is half of 360) FULL TIME.
Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the O360 is designed to put out 180 hp
FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of yours?
All I want to do is gets the facts, mam. I have no ax to grind here. I
don't care if people fly behind a Lycoming or a rubber band. My RV has a
new Lycoming O360 in it and I would be most unwilling to fly it anywhere
near 180 hp for more than a minute or two. In fact, I usually throttle
back in less than a minute after applying full throttle which has never
given 180 hp since I have never had it at sea level.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net> |
Listers,
My right brake tends to drag sometimes and makes an awful
groan if I press on it to taxi.
When I get out of the airplane to push it back, it is difficult until I
reach in and pull the right pedal back, which only comes back about 1/8
inch, and then she free wheels fine....
This does not happen every time, but does so a lot of the time.....
What do I do to fix this one ?
Thanks for your views,
Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mstewart(at)qa.butler.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dragging brake |
>
Listers,
My right brake tends to drag sometimes and makes an awful
groan if I press on it to taxi.
When I get out of the airplane to push it back, it is difficult until I
reach in and pull the right pedal back, which only comes back about 1/8
inch, and then she free wheels fine....
This does not happen every time, but does so a lot of the time.....
What do I do to fix this one ?
Thanks for your views,
Austin.
Well well, I am not the only one with the dreaded groaning brake problem.
I did not have a dragging brake though. So here is what I finally came up
with on the groaning brake.
Here is a snip from my web site:
This is really pissin me off. You know that groan the brakes make when you
stop in a 757. You know the kind that makes the whole plane shake? Well this
is happening to me. I have relined the brakes twice for good measure,
scuffed and cleaned the rotor, replaced the fluid in that line, used that
blue goopy stuff for cars, repacked the bearings twice, with no luck. Van's
says they don't know and have only heard of this once, Cleveland actually
told me this is VERY common in all rv models. I am still workin this
problem. I have some of the e-mails below for your reading pleasure.
Hi There.
Serial # 25708. RV-6A. First flight dec 2001 a few months ago.
The right brake is moaning and vibrating the whole plane in all
conditions and all speeds below 40mph, always, when brakes are
applied.
There is no dragging, and I have replaced the pads, scuffed the
rotor, rebuilt the master cylinder, replaced the seal in the
caliper, replaced the fluid, with absolutely no change.
The caliper appears to my novice self to be a bit loose on the pins.
I have felt others and I believe mine has more slack than others.
I have repacked the bearings.
Any ideas? Mike
From: Scott Risan [mailto:scottr(at)vansaircraft.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:05 PM
> To: Michael Stewart
> Subject: Re: noisy groaning brake
>
> Mike, saw this on one other plane and it turned out to be the flex
> lines that the builder used to run down the gear leg. these lines
> started a 'harmonic' (for lack of a better word) when the brakes were
> applied due to the expansion/contraction of the hose. the lines
> themselves made a 'horendous' noise. If you have flex lines running
> down to your callipers, check this out. even if you have solid lines,
> it might be installed just right to set up this kind of harmonic
> vibration. try changing the lines or taping them to the gear legs in
> a few extra spots and see if things change. let me know if this is
> the case...i would be interested to know.
Well I have hard lines, and well taped. Cleveland says replace the rotor. I
did that. I replaced the fluid, rebuilt the master cylinder, ect.
So after all that, I ended up shimming the pad to caliper with an .020 piece
of alum. Basically what you are trying to do is to have a little pressure on
the trailing edge of the brake pad, as the tire rotates. So make a shim,
with a hole for the caliper pin to fit through to hold it in place, on the
up side of the pad, so that as the wheel rotates, the trailing side of the
pad has a little more pressure than the leading edge of the pad. Again as
the wheel rotates. The groan is acting much like an eraser on a pencil when
you push it across a table. One way it slides, another way, it skips. It's
the skipping of the pad that is likely causing the groan. I spent many
hours figuring this out on mine.
Good luck.
I hope I explained this in an understandable form.
BTW, on the master cyl not retracting, there is a spring in there that you
could tweak a bit longer to get it to retract the pedal. Also be sure the
pedal is completely free.
Mike Stewart
snip
-- RV-List message posted by: Austin 6430(at)axion.net
Listers,
My right brake tends to drag sometimes and makes an awful
groan if I press on it to taxi.
When I get out of the airplane to push it back, it is difficult until I
reach in and pull the right pedal back, which only comes back about 1/8
inch, and then she free wheels fine....
This does not happen every time, but does so a lot of the time.....
What do I do to fix this one ?
Thanks for your views,
Austin.
snip
Well well, I am not the only one with
the dreaded groaning brake problem.
I did not have a dragging brake though.
So here is what I finally came up with on the groaning brake.
Here is a snip from my web site:
snip
This is really pissin me off. You
know that groan the brakes make when you stop in a 757. You know the kind that
makes the whole plane shake? Well this is happening to me. I have relined the
brakes twice for good measure, scuffed and cleaned the rotor, replaced the
fluid in that line, used that blue goopy stuff for cars, repacked the bearings
twice, with no luck. Van's says they don't know and have only heard of this
once, Cleveland actually told me this is VERY common in all rv
models. I am still workin this problem. I have some of the e-mails below for
your reading pleasure.
Hi There.
Serial # 25708. RV-6A. First flight dec
2001 a few months ago.
The right brake is moaning and
vibrating the whole plane in all
conditions and all speeds below
40mph, always, when brakes are
applied.
There is no dragging, and I have
replaced the pads, scuffed the
rotor, rebuilt the master cylinder,
replaced the seal in the
caliper, replaced the fluid, with
absolutely no change.
The caliper appears to my novice self
to be a bit loose on the pins.
I have felt others and I believe mine
has more slack than others.
I have repacked the bearings.
Any ideas? Mike
Sent: Wednesday, April 17, 2002 12:05 PM
To: Michael Stewart
Subject: Re: noisy groaning
brake
Mike, saw this on one other
plane and it turned out to be the flex
lines that the builder used to
run down the gear leg. these lines
started a 'harmonic' (for lack
of a better word) when the brakes were
applied due to the
expansion/contraction of the hose. the lines
themselves made a 'horendous'
noise. If you have flex lines running
down to your callipers, check
this out. even if you have solid lines,
it might be installed just right
to set up this kind of harmonic
vibration. try changing the
lines or taping them to the gear legs in
a few extra spots and see if
things change. let me know if this is
the case...i would be interested
to know.
Well I have hard lines, and well
taped. Cleveland says replace the rotor. I did that. I replaced the fluid,
rebuilt the master cylinder, ect.
snip
So after all that, I ended up shimming
the pad to caliper with an .020 piece of alum. Basically what you are trying to
do is to have a little pressure on the trailing edge of the brake pad, as the tire
rotates. So make a shim, with a hole for the caliper pin to fit through to hold
it in place, on the up side of the pad, so that as the wheel rotates, the trailing
side of the pad has a little more pressure than the leading edge of the pad. Again
as the wheel rotates. The groan is acting much like an eraser on a pencil when
you push it across a table. One way it slides, another way, it skips. It's
the skipping of the pad that is likely causing the groan. I spent many hours figuring
this out on mine.
Good luck.
I hope I explained this in an understandable
form.
BTW, on the master cyl not retracting,
there is a spring in there that you could tweak a bit longer to get it to retract
the pedal. Also be sure the pedal is completely free.
Mike Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
> That's pretty obvious with an auto engine but my point is that an O-360 is DESIGNED
> AND APPROVED to run FULL TIME at these settings.
What exactly IS your point? I've presented evidence in support of the
assertion that an auto engine can put out adequate power reliably for hundreds
of hours, evidence that you have not refuted. So please, what is your point?
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
> It is a fact. The 0-360 can make full rated power for it's 2000 hour TBO.
Please provide a reference for this. It has been confidently stated on this
list before that the full-power certification test is 100 hours. I think
that's a point that should be clarified.
It seems to be common knowledge that if you run a Lycoming at 24-squared (and
otherwise treat it reasonably) you have a good chance of making TBO, but if you
run it harder you don't. Twenty-four-squared is 75 percent of rated power.
It's important to understand that auto engines ARE tested at loads and RPMs as
high as or even higher than they would see in aircraft use, for hundreds of
hours. The assertion that auto engines are not tested for the kinds of loads
they would see in aircraft use is simply not true.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing to
check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting the forward
bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I think
they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal, and
once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear fork.
I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have any
signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just barely snug
enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in and out at least a dozen
times now during the fitting process for the nosewheel pant.
I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I can find them),
but...has anyone else with a training wheel had problems like this? I'm not
even flying yet so I'm not too encouraged with the
longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KAKlewin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Continous Priming Option?? |
Howdy again all,
In discussing my primer set up with a fellow RV9 builder and A&P he made a
suggestion I would like to run by the list. I have the standard electric
primer sold by vans that runs a 1/8in line to 3 cyl that is controlled by a
momentary on switch in the panel. He suggested that maybe I change the
switch to an ON/OFF switch so you could run the primer continuously. His
idea was in an emergency (non-catastrophic and fuel/air related) you could
run the primer continuously and adjust the throttle to restore (hopefully)
partial power to the engine. I assume if this theory holds any water it
would be for a blocked intake or some type of carb problem?? (I have a
Aerosport O-360 on the way with a normal carb) Any comments, suggestions, or
inputs??
Kurt in OKC
RV6A Finishing....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cindy Gastrich" <WJ8M(at)alaska.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dragging brake |
I can see a couple things it could be. If you have to physically retract or
pull back the pedal mechanism, the problem might be in the mechanics of it.
I would detach things in sorta of a progression and see if you can find
anything. It is also very important to allow the calipher to "float".
The brakes are designed to allow the unit (part with the discs attached) to
move back and forth across the rotor. The flex line near the unit serves
this purpose. If it is not long enough or has a twist in it the unit . The
least that will happen is one disc will wear much faster than the other
because it is always being held against the rotor brakes being applied or
not. This could also manifest itself as a vibration (not felt but possibly
heard) when the rotor disc is at higher rpms. Next time it does this see if
the unit will wiggle (the part with the pads) in relation to the disc. Have
a glove on because it may be hot, especially if it were dragging or being
held to one side. Tom Gastrich
>> My right brake tends to drag sometimes and makes an awful
> groan if I press on it to taxi.
>> Austin.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Wittman" <fmico(at)iaxs.net> |
| Subject: | Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
Hi Mark,
I have an older 6A that has shown that problem in extremis. The threads had
stripped to where the hex bolt couldn't be tightened. A 3/8 helicoil fixed
I pretty easily. Jim Wittman
MIC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
Fellow RVers...
For illumination on the subject of auto engines being run at WOT, please go
to "Google" and type in"Subaru Endurance Record" If memory serves, way back
in 1989 or so, Subaru ran away with the world endurance record by running 18
days, 24/7 at WOT, averaging 135+mph including stopping for driver changes,
gas, etc. Believe this was with the 2.2L (135 c.i.d.) 4-banger. The current
Subaru 2.5L 4 cyl has 5 massive crank journals to support 4 massive rod
journals with relatively small pistons. I have owned 2 Lycomings in the past
and loved them, but not sure they would withstand 400+ hours WOT at sea
level. BTW, the engines Subaru ran were production engines, not some special
one-off racing design. Hope this helps.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
RV6a/90/70
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Success unloading new Lycoming |
Thanks for the advice from everyone both on list and off. I built a ramp
from two 4'x4' squares of 3/4" plywood and four 8 foot long 2x4's with some
extra length obtained by adding two sections of 2x4 to bring the total ramp
length to about 11 feet. I would recommend this approach for anyone needing
to unload a Lycoming from a truck without a lift gate.
Steve Johnson
RV-8 #80121 fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dragging brake |
Austin, (and others afflicted with dragging brakes): A few years ago, during
my 7 year building period, I remember reading somewhere that it is BAD thing
to press on the brake pedals without any fluid in the system. If you climbed
into your partially completed fuselage pretending to be wannabe pilots with
A/C noises, etc, and pressed your empty pedals a lot ,you may have
compressed the springs to the point that they yielded their spring action.
There is hardly any compression on them when the master cylinders are full
and the system is bled, but when empty, they get fully compressed by the
total cylinder piston travel.You may have to get new springs from Cleveland
to cure the problem.
Cheers!! --------Merry Christmas!-----Henry Hore--RV6-A
hangared at CYCC,
Cornwall,
Ontario.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
>
--snip--
> in 1989 or so, Subaru ran away with the world endurance record by running 18
> days, 24/7 at WOT, averaging 135+mph including stopping for driver changes,
Thanks for sending that, Jerry. I remember when it happened, and I've wanted
to bring it up several times in RV List discussions about auto engine
endurance, but didn't have any documentation to back it up before. (This
record is documented on the Subaru Canada web site, and others.)
According to the Subaru web site, that's 452 hours at WOT. Given the speed
(139 mph in a Legacy), it's got to be darned close to peak power for the
engine. (Note "peak" power, not "rated" power.) My recollection is that on
teardown the engine was still within production tolerances, but I haven't been
able to confirm that. If you treat 450 hours as TBO (clearly very
conservative), and compare the cost of a Subaru rebuild to a Lycoming rebuild,
it makes the Eggenfellner engine look like a pretty good option.
(As an aside, I personally feel that the Eggenfellner engine is a little small
for the RV-7 or 8, but I believe it's a good choice for an RV-9. They've sold
over a hundred of them already.)
By the way, the previous record holder was the Saab 9000 Turbo, which ran 472
hours at WOT. The record is for average speed over 100,000 km, so fewer hours
is "better."
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "donald hostetler" <loclas(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | How do you put a tire and tube together |
Ask the experts. See page 4:
http://195.154.239.169/aviation/care/files/08%20General%20Mounting%2Epdf
If it's good enough for the space shuttle it's good enough for me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Alternative Engines |
Here is a reference I based part of my thoughts on when making my engine
decision. It may be of help to others posting here who have ideas about
using an alternative engine in an RV.
http://www.prime-mover.org/Engines/Torsional/contact1/contact1.html
Larry in Indiana
Building an RV7 - that will be named and flown under the call of 3XG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
>
>Before I add some more of my 2 cents worth, let me point out that I don't
>really
>know what I am talking about. Even if the automotive engines have great
>endurance at high power output, they aren't doing it with a prop hanging
>of the
>end of the crank, which seems as though that would be a huge factor. I guess
>sense most auto conversions would use a PSRU that wouldn't be near as much
>of a
>factor as it would be if the prop were directly attached to the crank, but
>still
>a factor I would think.
You're going (thinking) down the right road, Chris. The concern here is
for the gyroscopic forces that the prop flange has to deal with when you
run your plane through a few whifferdils. Bending forces of over 600
ft-lbs at the prop flange are not unusual for some aerobatic
maneuvers. Even for the AEIO Lycs it isn't unusual to find a bent crank
flange if the plane has been subject to some real nasty unlimited
acro. Also note that the TBO for some of these is in the 400 hour range.
Depending on the mission profile for your plane you will want to consider
if the PSRU/redrive on your alternative engine choice has been engineered
for this type of life style. The ones I'm familiar with, Real World
Solutions planetary PSRU http://www.rotaryaviation.com/ and Power Sports
internal spur gear PSRU http://www.POWERSPORTAVIATION.COM/, have been
engineered for the higher stress of mild aerobatics. One unusual
application on a Long Ez (I know .. just an example here)
http://www.bridgingworlds.com/duckt.htm has the prop and extension directly
mounted to the flywheel as you described, yet it has had no problems for
several hundred hours so far. It's also not in the Long Ez mission profile
to do the kinds of aerobics the RV is intended for.
Wow, that got a little long winded. Viva la' experimental!
Mike
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
Tedd,
In response to your statement below, I don't think the issue is that "auto
engines CAN'T work well in another application". Instead, the issue is that
auto engines, and more specifically, auto engines and their associated
systems have not been demonstrated to work well in the aviation application.
This isn't to say it can't be done, but so far, there are no conversions out
there with enough units in the field x enough flight hours to make the claim
that such-and-such a conversion is superior to the tried and true Lycoming.
With that, I'm outta this thread. The horse is not only dead, but the
carcass is badly picked over.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions
>
> > >
> > >Automotive engines are not designed to put out high HP for long periods
of
> > >time as are aircraft engines.
>
> Even if that were true (which it isn't; refer to
> http://www.vansairforce.org/articles/EP/eng_auto_endurance.shtml), what
matters
> is what the engine CAN do, regardless of the design intent. This is where
> Van's famous auto-engine-designer-banging-head-on-desk argument falls
down.
> Automotive engines have been successfully used in airplanes, boats, water
> pumps, stationary generators, and many, many other uses, as have airplane
> engines. The suggestion that an engine can't work well in one application
only
> because it was originally designed for another is nonsense, and is
successfully
> ignored daily.
>
> Tedd McHenry
> Surrey, BC
> -6 wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative |
EngineQuestions
>
>>
>>The O-360 is designed to to put out 180 hp (which is half of 360) FULL TIME.
>
>Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the O360 is designed to put out 180 hp
>FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of yours?
>
>All I want to do is gets the facts, mam. I have no ax to grind here. I
>don't care if people fly behind a Lycoming or a rubber band. My RV has a
>new Lycoming O360 in it and I would be most unwilling to fly it anywhere
>near 180 hp for more than a minute or two. In fact, I usually throttle
>back in less than a minute after applying full throttle which has never
>given 180 hp since I have never had it at sea level.
>
The FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet for the Lycoming O-360 lists the
rated maximum continuous power as 180 hp. So, as far as the FAA is
concerned, the engine is capable of producing 180 hp continuously.
However, I would be very surprised if the 2,000 hr TBO assumed the
engine was producing 180 hp continuously, as no one operates these
engines that way. I've searched the web, but I can't find any info
on how TBO intervals are defined. I would expect the TBO was based on
a more normal type of operation.
These discussions on the suitability of auto engines appear to have
gone off on a strange tangent. As far as I can tell, the biggest
risk in an auto conversion isn't that the engine itself may have a
major failure. Most of the failures I've heard of were failures of
the ancillary systems (reduction drives, cooling system, fuel
injection or carburetors etc), not failures of the basic engine. We
simply need to get enough service history on auto conversions to
learn which ancillary systems are reliable, and which ones are not.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | barry pote <barrypote(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
As I mentioned in an earlier post, I am in the midst of trying an all
aluminum (Bowtie block, Brodix heads) 4.3 V6, alternate engine in my
RV9a.
Time will tell if it is a good choice.
But I am compelled to tell a story told to an RV build'm class in
Griffin, Georgia, by Alex Sloan, instructor, and EAA upper escalon,
office holder, as well as top notch golf instructor.
I think this is important for all to keep in mind, when it comes to
engines, be it Lycoming or Auto.
1. Alex told of a fellow he knew that built a world class Velocity-type
aircraft. The fellow won the big award at the 1st flyin that it went to.
He had bought a mid time engine that looked good and installed it, as
is. Within a month, the engine broke on take off and he and the plane
were lost.
2. Alex then told one on himself. He bought an engine that was supposed
to be good, from a reputable dealer. It was for his own plane. He took
it to the local
school that taught aircraft mechanics and had them tear it down. It
looked good on the outside. It was bought from a well known dealer, but
it was junk inside. Not a part was useable.
My point is this. If you buy a used engine, even if it is a Lycoming,
the least that should be done is a partial tear down to look for
potential problems. Better yet, have a good guy tear it down and
reassemble it, as someone ,in a post last week, said.
One reason I am going with a Chevy, I have a long experience with them.
Another is, and this has not been mentioned, those Lyosaurs (emotive
word) that have a 2000 between......even if you buy a new one.....do
they go that long without some major work? Check the ads "400 since
major, 100 since head"." 1000 since major, 0 since top". There are a lot
of birds out there with similar wording in their ads. I admit that I
don't know enough to know if that is to be expected, but I know the used
market is rife with that kind of ad.
I know this post is long, but Alex thought it was important, and he
should know.
I think it is important to think about.
Barry Pote RV9a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
I'm about to trim the curved shape into the F-652 upper baggage bulkhead
(corrugated skin that attaches to F-706). I have an issue with the stock
Van's sent me. There's a bent-back LIP at the very edge that is baffling
me! Here are some photos:
http://www.rvproject.com/f652_issue.html
It would be no big freakin' deal if the stock was tall enough to just cut
off the extra, but there is NO extra. The stock is exactly 34" wide and 10
5/8" tall (if the bend were straightened), but the lip points AFT. It's not
even like it's bent in the same direction as the corrugation. Weird.
Did anybody else have this issue with their F-652? I'm really
baffled...this is definitely not damage, but I don't see the purpose! I
assume Van's just shipped out a bogus skin to me, but it's after hours. I'm
not about to take my hand seamer to this to try to get it straight...screw
that! I would love other builder's perspective on this issue...
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
Hello, Kurt: I am installing a primer system that seems the same as you
described. I am thinking about the switches well. One option that I am I
am considering is an (ON) OFF ON switch. I was thinking of installing it
with the (ON) up so that temporary prime would be the normal start, and
throw it all the way down to ON for emergency or continuous use. Still
waffling!!
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
Finish Kit 85% Complete
> In discussing my primer set up with a fellow RV9 builder and A&P he made
a
> suggestion I would like to run by the list. I have the standard electric
> primer sold by vans that runs a 1/8in line to 3 cyl that is controlled by
a
> momentary on switch in the panel. He suggested that maybe I change the
> switch to an ON/OFF switch so you could run the primer continuously. His
> idea was in an emergency (non-catastrophic and fuel/air related) you could
> run the primer continuously and adjust the throttle to restore (hopefully)
> partial power to the engine.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
Your part is fine. That lip is at the top of the lower of the two
corrugated pieces, and adds stiffness without pushing the top piece out of
alignment, which is what would happen if that lip pointed forward.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead
>
> I'm about to trim the curved shape into the F-652 upper baggage bulkhead
> (corrugated skin that attaches to F-706). I have an issue with the stock
> Van's sent me. There's a bent-back LIP at the very edge that is baffling
> me! Here are some photos:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/f652_issue.html
>
> It would be no big freakin' deal if the stock was tall enough to just cut
> off the extra, but there is NO extra. The stock is exactly 34" wide and
10
> 5/8" tall (if the bend were straightened), but the lip points AFT. It's
not
> even like it's bent in the same direction as the corrugation. Weird.
>
> Did anybody else have this issue with their F-652? I'm really
> baffled...this is definitely not damage, but I don't see the purpose! I
> assume Van's just shipped out a bogus skin to me, but it's after hours.
I'm
> not about to take my hand seamer to this to try to get it straight...screw
> that! I would love other builder's perspective on this issue...
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
Any time you thread a hard metal into a soft metal, (or vice-versa) you
should use anti-seize compound on the threads. That's why it's called
anti-SIEZE compound. I use Permatex's stuff and if you have an engine in
your velocipede with an aluminum cylinder head, they tell you to use the
same stuff on the spark-plugs! "Elementary my dear Watson"!
Cheers!!---------Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Fellow Listers:
I'm a little confused as usual about those darn electrons. On my
"about-to-fly" RV-4, I am getting a voltage surge when I release the starter
(my EI engine instruments go nuts). I do have diodes on my master switch
and starter solenoid which are from Van's diode protection kit. But I'm not
sure whether I have them wired correctly now that I am cranking the starter
and this surge appears (and I lost the installation instructions).
My starter solenoid (supplied from Van's) has two small terminals "S" and
"I". I have the blue diode connected from the "S" terminal to ground with
the red band of the diode next to the "S" terminal. Is this correct?? My
wiring has a wire running from the "S" terminal to the starter pushbutton,
and the "I" terminal runs to the small terminal on my Sky Tech Starter.
If this is correct, why am I getting a surge (I will check the ground
tomorrow also)
Help is always appreciated!!
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim <rv9a_000(at)deru.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> I'm about to trim the curved shape into the F-652 upper baggage bulkhead
> (corrugated skin that attaches to F-706). I have an issue with the stock
> Van's sent me. There's a bent-back LIP at the very edge that is baffling
> me! Here are some photos:
>
> www.rvproject.com/f652_issue.html
I am just about at the same step on my RV9a, and
my F-652 has the identical "lip" as yours.
It's a good question - I can't see why this was done
from the plans, but unless we got bad parts from the
same batch, that extra bend was probably put there
for a reason... which we will promptly discover after
cutting and drilling exactly the wrong way. :-)
- Tim.
RV9a fuselage - "Finishing the inside of the cabin".
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
Dan:
That lip that you are seeing is to go on the bottom of the upper rear
baggage panel. It is there so that when you screw the top panel to the
bottom, the seam that they make will be nice and flush. It is the same
concept as curling the edge of overlapping skins so the skin does not pull
up at the edge and leave a gap between skins when the rivets are driven
along their edges.
So don't trim that edge of the top baggage panel. Leave that lip for when
you screw the mess together.
Hope that helps. Sorta just did that so we are doin' the same stuff
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
fuselage
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead
>
> I'm about to trim the curved shape into the F-652 upper baggage bulkhead
> (corrugated skin that attaches to F-706). I have an issue with the stock
> Van's sent me. There's a bent-back LIP at the very edge that is baffling
> me! Here are some photos:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/f652_issue.html
>
> It would be no big freakin' deal if the stock was tall enough to just cut
> off the extra, but there is NO extra. The stock is exactly 34" wide and
10
> 5/8" tall (if the bend were straightened), but the lip points AFT. It's
not
> even like it's bent in the same direction as the corrugation. Weird.
>
> Did anybody else have this issue with their F-652? I'm really
> baffled...this is definitely not damage, but I don't see the purpose! I
> assume Van's just shipped out a bogus skin to me, but it's after hours.
I'm
> not about to take my hand seamer to this to try to get it straight...screw
> that! I would love other builder's perspective on this issue...
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
Uh, Kyle, I think you as mistaking this for the bottom piece. The
bottom piece does have a bend 90deg aft, which the shoulder rub blocks
get riveted to. The top piece does indeed have a slight bend to the
rear, for no apparent reason. Mine looks just like your pictures
(except painted grey ;) I just drilled it (not in the bend) and when it
is all screwed down, it looks fine. The bend sort of flattens out, like
using an edge rolling tool on skin edges. I have no idea what the bend
is for- maybe a bit of extra rigidity?
Don't sweat it, just cut it and drill it.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finish kit
Milwaukee WI
Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
>Your part is fine. That lip is at the top of the lower of the two
>corrugated pieces, and adds stiffness without pushing the top piece out of
>alignment, which is what would happen if that lip pointed forward.
>
>KB
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Dragging brake |
The post about pressing the pedal with no fluid in the system is correct.
To solve the problem , I took the springs off and stretched them . A little
extra strength doesn't bother anything here .
The brake only releases in the last .065 travel . That's 65 thousandths !!
Be sure the rod is coming ALL the way back when you release the pedal.
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: References please -- WAS:Alternative EngineQuestions |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>The O-360 is designed to to put out 180 hp (which is half of 360) FULL TIME.
> >
> >Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the O360 is designed to put out 180 hp
> >FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of yours?
> >
> >All I want to do is gets the facts, mam. I have no ax to grind here. I
> >don't care if people fly behind a Lycoming or a rubber band. My RV has a
> >new Lycoming O360 in it and I would be most unwilling to fly it anywhere
> >near 180 hp for more than a minute or two. In fact, I usually throttle
> >back in less than a minute after applying full throttle which has never
> >given 180 hp since I have never had it at sea level.
> >
>
> The FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet for the Lycoming O-360 lists the
> rated maximum continuous power as 180 hp. So, as far as the FAA is
> concerned, the engine is capable of producing 180 hp continuously.
>
> However, I would be very surprised if the 2,000 hr TBO assumed the
> engine was producing 180 hp continuously, as no one operates these
> engines that way. I've searched the web, but I can't find any info
> on how TBO intervals are defined. I would expect the TBO was based on
> a more normal type of operation.
Isn't it true that the only way to run one of these engines at max power
for an extended amount of time is to skim across the waves of the ocean?
As soon as we climb above sea level, the engine is no longer producing
100% power. Matter of fact, we lose about one inch of manifold pressure
per thousand feet gained.
The ideal flight would be to push the throttle all the way forward on
takeoff, leave it wide open as we climb to an altitude where full
throttle yields 75% power, and leave the throttle all the way forward
until it is time to descend.
There is no way I can get the engine in my RV-6 to produce rated power
because max power occurs at 2700 rpm, and the prop is limited to 2600
rpm. Since initial climb-out near sea level in my RV-6 at full throttle
is only about 2340 rpm, I am proving that an RV will fly just fine on
about 130 hp! :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, and don't mind a bit using all the throttle)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Continous Priming Option?? |
Subject: RV-List: Continous Priming Option??
Howdy again all,
In discussing my primer set up with a fellow RV9 builder and A&P he made a
suggestion I would like to run by the list. I have the standard electric
primer sold by vans that runs a 1/8in line to 3 cyl that is controlled by a
momentary on switch in the panel. He suggested that maybe I change the
switch to an ON/OFF switch so you could run the primer continuously.
Kurt in OKC
RV6A Finishing....
Hi Kurt
Nice to see a new topic, the alternative engine issue has become a lot like
the discussion my wife & I had many years ago about the toilet seat being
left up or down, no matter about facts, I was wrong!
I don't recommend that suggested primer switch idea for following reasons.
1) If you have ever witnessed a engine fire during start caused by over
priming, backfire, you might not like the idea. Amazing how big that ball of
flame can be, maybe big enough to make you panic and jump out with your fire
extinguisher leaving the master switch ON and the primer continuing to fuel
the fire.
2) Switch would have to be a garded and/or spring loaded to OFF otherwise
inadvertantly activating the switch in flight (bumped in turbulance, night
etc) could cause engine problems.
3) This would be a non-standard setup and might someday cause a problem for
some other pilot or owner (read liability).
I had the same thoughts as you about the primer being used to run the engine
if mixture control broke and went to idle, in fact I plumbed all four
cylinders for prime and opened up the primer nozzels slightly. I have a
pushbutton primer switch.
It will run on the primer (12-1300 RPM) on ground, (rich and rough) but I
have not tested engine in flight to see what happens, instead I put a small
spring on mixture arm to return mixture to rich if the cable fails.
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <n8wv(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Doug... I didn't use Van's protection kit, but I used diodes to protect my
electrical system throughout... You can see my wiring diagram here:
.pdf format: http://www.vondane.com/wiring/dwg/n8vd_wdwg_r4.pdf
.html format: http://www.vondane.com/wiring/dwg/_HTML/n8vd_wdwg_r4_frame.htm
Hope this helps...
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A ~ 80 hrs
www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
Fellow Listers:
I'm a little confused as usual about those darn electrons. On my
"about-to-fly" RV-4, I am getting a voltage surge when I release the starter
(my EI engine instruments go nuts). I do have diodes on my master switch
and starter solenoid which are from Van's diode protection kit. But I'm not
sure whether I have them wired correctly now that I am cranking the starter
and this surge appears (and I lost the installation instructions).
My starter solenoid (supplied from Van's) has two small terminals "S" and
"I". I have the blue diode connected from the "S" terminal to ground with
the red band of the diode next to the "S" terminal. Is this correct?? My
wiring has a wire running from the "S" terminal to the starter pushbutton,
and the "I" terminal runs to the small terminal on my Sky Tech Starter.
If this is correct, why am I getting a surge (I will check the ground
tomorrow also)
Help is always appreciated!!
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <towertoy(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aero Electric Connection; Still in Business? |
____ Original Message ____
From: Mark and Sabina Gilbert
Subject: RV-List: Aero Electric Connection; Still in Business?
Is the Aero Electric Connection still in business? I ordered the shrink
wrapped electrical guide on November 23rd, and 18 days later it still has
not arrived, even though I received a confirming email the day I placed the
order stating that it would be sent by priority mail. I didn't get a
response to my email to Bob Nuckoll's site inquiring about the order status
either. Any clues out there?
Mark
Sacramento
RV6A, wings
---- New post ----
I too ordered the book and CD from Bob about the same time. Here is his reply
to an e-mail I sent to him.
>Below is the result of your inquiry. It was submitted by
>David Toy (Towertoy(at)earthlink.net) on Wednesday, December 11, 2002 at
23:57:19
>
>Wednesday, December 11, 2002
>
>David Toy
>
>,
>Email: Towertoy(at)earthlink.net
>Comments/Questions: I previously placed the following order with
>you. There was no date given on when to expect the delivery. This is not
>a complaint but simply an inquiry as to expected shipping date. Also,
>please use the easiest and cheapest shipping possible for you.
I am temporarily out of books. Expect more from printers
next week. Sorry for delay.
Bob . . .
Dave Toy
Towertoy(at)earthlink.net
Still in the "thinking about building" stage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | References please -- WAS:Alternative Engine Questions |
Engines are not normally certified as you mention, part of an airframe. A
certified engine is always a certified engine as long as it is kept in it's
original TC conduction and logs, etc., or kept properly. It may not be
acceptable per a particular airframe TC for use in that airframe but it is
nonetheless certified.
True, the RV is not certified but Vans has designed and tested the aircraft
along the lines of the FAR's and aside from the sporty handling (stability
issues) they are probably close enough for our purposes to be considered
proven airframes, we know the weaknesses and problem areas etc. and there are
many 1000 hour RV's and 2000 hour RVs but none that I know of (could be
wrong) with all those hours behind anything other than a Lyc.
"not been mentioned, those Lyosaurs (emotive
word) that have a 2000 between......even if you buy a new one.....do
they go that long without some major work? Check the ads "400 since
major, 100 since head"." 1000 since major, 0 since top".
as previously stated not all engines run TBO, especially those flown
infrequently. I ran my 0235 Yankee 1850ish hours and it had excellent
compression and good oil analysis when I sold it. It required only normal
maintenance. My father and law's 0360 Cardinal went 2300 hours before
overhaul and it still had good compression and good oil analysis and was
mostly within limits when torn down. My neighbors 0360 powered spam can has
1900 hours since new over a 20 year period, I did his service and it has good
compression, no history of repairs in the log book other than normal
maintenance items, good oil analysis, the Cessna 172 I am doing some of my
Commercial in and got my Instrument in is pushing 2000 hours on second major,
it runs good, has good compression and oil analysis is beginning to indicate
some acceleration of wear. All of these have made TBO without anything but
normal oil changes, plugs, timing, mag maintenance etc.
The 5 minute thing--nah, not true of the 0360/0320/0235, it is full rated
power for TBO and that would include tubo normalized engines with STC's etc.I
have a friend in AZ, turbonormalized Cardinal. It just went in for overhaul
with over 2100 hours since reman. No interveneing issues. These are more
common than not but of course there are always exceptions. I have seen a few
that have been seriously abused and yet they kept chugging. Lycomings are
hard to kill but it can be done. Then you get things like the recent crank
problems at Lycoming so there you go. Do Not Archive. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Wayne Stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: alternat. engines discussion |
I may be wrong, but if my memory is correct, The Subaru boxer-type (4
horizontally opposed cylinders--just like guess who?) engine was originally
designed and developed for a proposed Japanese light aircraft program. The
aircraft program was aborted and the engine design shelved until Subaru
needed a compact low center of gravity engine for their small 4wd vehicles.
If my recollection is correct what we have is an aircraft designed engine,
redeveloped for auto use--now being returned to its original purpose.
The new MSN 8: smart spam protection and 2 months FREE*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
Mark,
The previous responses to your question all gave good advice. Before simply replacing
the bolt, do this. Install a new bolt about 4 turns into the threaded
hole with nothing else attached. Wiggle the bolt side to side and note the amount
the bolt deflects. Now repeat the process with the same bolt installed in
a new steel nut of the appropriate size and thread. If there is more side play,
the female threads are damaged. Chasing them with a tap won't help. The bolt
will strip again later. Better to fix it now than to lose the whole wheel pant
later. You will need to install a HeliCoil thread repair insert.
If the threads check out OK, apply Never Seize as previously suggested. You won't
need the Never Seize in any HeliCoiled hole. The HeliCoil insert is stainless
steel, so no galvanic reaction will take place.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A fitting F-816 sill plates
Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>Guys,
>
>Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing to
>check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting the forward
bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
>new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I think
>they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal, and
>once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
>stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear fork.
>I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have any
>signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just barely snug
enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in and out at least a dozen
times now during the fitting process for the nosewheel pant.
>
>I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
>maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I can find them),
but...has anyone else with a training wheel had problems like this? I'm not
even flying yet so I'm not too encouraged with the
>longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
>periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
>
>Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
TBO is established by the manufacturer at 100% continuous power. There is an
AC on this somewhere that is very tedious, but I have read it at least once.
What usually reduces TBO is thermal cycling and corrosion. If you fire up an
engine and run it for 2000 hours straight, stopping only to change the oil
every 50 hours, it will probably make it at 100% power.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 63 Msgs - 12/12/02 |
Hey JT,
I got my letter yesterday.
Man, you are too hard on your boss, it wasn't that hard to comprehend.
thanks for the great service.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Oil Temp Sender? |
On my O-320 (E3D) there is what appears to be a sender unit on top of
the spin-on oil filter housing, directly in front of the filter. I can
find no reference in the Lycoming manuals. I have the drawing of the
rear accessory case and it shows a temp sender on the rear of the filter
screen housing (which is not like my engine). What it is? If oil p. or
t., can this be used for the EIS input?
TIA from The PossumWorks
Mark -6A, firewall forwardish...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Continous Priming Option?? |
George,
The spring on the mixture arm sounds like an excellent
idea. I will be noting that one for future refernce.
Thanks,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV7 Fuse
--- George McNutt wrote:
>
>
>
> Subject: RV-List: Continous Priming Option??
>
>
>
> Howdy again all,
>
> In discussing my primer set up with a fellow RV9
> builder and A&P he made a
> suggestion I would like to run by the list. I have
> the standard electric
> primer sold by vans that runs a 1/8in line to 3 cyl
> that is controlled by a
> momentary on switch in the panel. He suggested
> that maybe I change the
> switch to an ON/OFF switch so you could run the
> primer continuously.
>
> Kurt in OKC
> RV6A Finishing....
>
> Hi Kurt
>
>
> Nice to see a new topic, the alternative engine
> issue has become a lot like
> the discussion my wife & I had many years ago about
> the toilet seat being
> left up or down, no matter about facts, I was wrong!
>
>
> I don't recommend that suggested primer switch idea
> for following reasons.
>
> 1) If you have ever witnessed a engine fire during
> start caused by over
> priming, backfire, you might not like the idea.
> Amazing how big that ball of
> flame can be, maybe big enough to make you panic and
> jump out with your fire
> extinguisher leaving the master switch ON and the
> primer continuing to fuel
> the fire.
>
> 2) Switch would have to be a garded and/or spring
> loaded to OFF otherwise
> inadvertantly activating the switch in flight
> (bumped in turbulance, night
> etc) could cause engine problems.
>
> 3) This would be a non-standard setup and might
> someday cause a problem for
> some other pilot or owner (read liability).
>
> I had the same thoughts as you about the primer
> being used to run the engine
> if mixture control broke and went to idle, in fact I
> plumbed all four
> cylinders for prime and opened up the primer nozzels
> slightly. I have a
> pushbutton primer switch.
>
> It will run on the primer (12-1300 RPM) on ground,
> (rich and rough) but I
> have not tested engine in flight to see what
> happens, instead I put a small
> spring on mixture arm to return mixture to rich if
> the cable fails.
>
> George McNutt
> Langley, B.C.
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV7 - F715 Seat Rib |
Dear List,
Can anyone out there tell me the appropriate time to
drill the F715 seat ribs to the bottom center section
skin and the seat skins. I can't find it in the
plans.
Thanks,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV-7 Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
Mark,
What you are describing is probably galling, which means that the threads
are most likely toast and jsut running a tap through the hole may not do it.
You will more than likely need to go up one size in the bolt, drill out
and re-tap the hole. Whenever you put a steel bolt in an aluminum structure
the bolt needs to be lubricated by some means to reduce the chances of
galling happening.
Mike Robertson
RV-8A, 6A, 9A
>From: czechsix(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping
>Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2002 19:17:06 GMT
>
>
>Guys,
>
>Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing to
>check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting the
>forward bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
>new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I think
>they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal, and
>once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
>stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear fork.
>I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have any
>signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just barely
>snug enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in and out at least
>a dozen times now during the fitting process for the nosewheel pant.
>
>I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
>maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I can find
>them), but...has anyone else with a training wheel had problems like this?
>I'm not even flying yet so I'm not too encouraged with the
>longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
>periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
>
>Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)wmca.net> |
| Subject: | Re: baggage floor and platenuts |
That's almost exactly the way I installed mine. I used one-leg platenuts on the
aft ends.
Bob Brown
RV7A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | mixture return spring |
If you wish to see a photo of a mixture return spring, hit this link and
scroll about half way down the page:
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/engine4.html
Just make certain that the spring isn't installed in such a manner as to
interfere with the either the mixture or throttle cables and arms. I
found the very light tension spring at an auto parts store.
Sam Buchanan
-================-
Ross Schlotthauer wrote:
>
>
> George,
>
> The spring on the mixture arm sounds like an excellent
> idea. I will be noting that one for future refernce.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV7 Fuse
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: alternat. engines discussion |
> I may be wrong, but if my memory is correct, The Subaru boxer-type (4
> horizontally opposed cylinders--just like guess who?) engine was originally
> designed and developed for a proposed Japanese light aircraft program.
This rumour has been floating around for quite a few years, probably in part
fuelled by Subaru's references to their aviation heritage in their marketing
literature. Subaru--or rather, the company from which Subaru decended in the
complex genealogy of post-WWII Japanese industry--was an aircraft company.
However, they seem to have built jets and turboprops, not any piston-engined
aircraft.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC
-6 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Continous Priming Option?? |
On the issue of doing fuel primers at all: be aware that many many RVs have
no primer at all including mine and all the Van's demo ships. I now have
close to 300 hours on mine and have started many times at temps down to
about 30 degrees f. Two or three pumps of the throttle WHILE the engine is
cranking have always done the trick. True, it does take a few more blades
than when warmer, but it's never failed to start and I've never run my
battery down in the process (Concord RG25XC).
My reason for bringing this up is that with any primer system you are adding
potential failure points with the potential to have fuel loose in the engine
compartment. That scares the bejeezus out of me. Perhaps I am biased
though -- I was helping a friend swap engines in his C172 and watched the
copper primer line fall apart as it was just nudged. It had obviously
developed a weak spot from all the motion over the years and was just
waiting to fail. Still, the though of fuel spraying/dripping in the fwf area
is to much for me... simple is good as with most things in aviation. Anyway,
don't feel like you MUST put a primer system in.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 285 hrs
www.rv-8.com
Home Wing VAF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib |
Yeah, the instructions aren't really clear on this. I drilled mine right
after riveting the center section and it worked out fine.
Outboard seat ribs are covered here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20021026.html
and here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20021027.html
And by the way...save yourself the time and drill the nutplate holes in the
outboard seat ribs at the same time you drill the rest of the holes. I
waited because I was unsure, and ended up drilling them after the side skins
came off for deburring. No harm in drilling them earlier.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib
>
> Dear List,
>
> Can anyone out there tell me the appropriate time to
> drill the F715 seat ribs to the bottom center section
> skin and the seat skins. I can't find it in the
> plans.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ross Schlotthauer
> RV-7 Fuse
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
"'RV-List Digest Server'"@matronics.com
| Subject: | RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
Actually you are incorrect, I did not write "FULL TIME" I cut and pasted
that entire statement directly from the previous post. Below that I then cut
and pasted the engine data directly from the TC.
FAA requires the Type Certificate to list max continuous power for every
engine certified under that TC.
TBO is established by the Manufacturer using criteria set forth by the FAA
in an Advisory Circular, I don't remember which one. But, max continuous
means just that, until it wears out. I remember the AC requiring testing at
many power levels and very different types of testing to determine TBO, but
the engine should be able to make TBO at any power setting, given no other
misuse, or mismaintenance. They then require commercial use of the engine to
follow manfacturer's recommendations which includes TBO. This has no
exclusion for engines that have been run at full power a lot or a little.
The FAA isn't going to certify something that the testing didn't allow for.
What kills these engines prematurely is corrosion mostly as they sit around
and rust, then get run, and the corroded areas then wear at an accelerated
rate.
I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee 140 at full power its
entire service life doing photo runs and it easily made TBO because we were
running daily flights.
-----Original Message-----
From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto:lhelming(at)sigecom.net]
Subject: 360 makes 180 hp
You wrote, "Who says??? Does Lycoming say that the O-360 is designed to put
out 180 hp
FULL TIME? Is this a FACT or just a BELIEF of yours?"
I think you inserted the words, "FULL TIME" all by yourself. I think the
engine produces 180 hp when called to do it under proper conditions. It
will do that. I would assume that would be full power capability. Is that
needed at all times during use of the engine?
But, you should suspect that being capable of producing at that level and
doing it to TBO are two different things.
Larry
RV7 - Named 3XG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Temp Sender? |
Hi Mark,
I don't have any official information or manuals for your application to
research so double check this information. If I read your email correctly
the outlet you refer to is on the top of the oil filter housing.
I removed the plug that resided in this area and inserted a solid brass
adapter that Avery tools supplied. This adapter has a hole bored into it but
not through it thus avoiding the chance of leakage.
Into the hole in the adapter I potted the Rocky Mountain Instruments oil
temp sensor as per their instructions.
Be sure that whatever adapter, plug or fitting is put in this location can
be safety wire tied. This area is open to live oil pressure. Avoid using or
mounting any sensors etc.directly to this or any other location on the
engine itself. remote mounting of such units is the way to go.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: RV-List: Oil Temp Sender?
>
> On my O-320 (E3D) there is what appears to be a sender unit on top of
> the spin-on oil filter housing, directly in front of the filter. I can
> find no reference in the Lycoming manuals. I have the drawing of the
> rear accessory case and it shows a temp sender on the rear of the filter
> screen housing (which is not like my engine). What it is? If oil p. or
> t., can this be used for the EIS input?
>
> TIA from The PossumWorks
> Mark -6A, firewall forwardish...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Doug! You have connected the diode the wrong way! It is now blown to
smithereens! The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it. Current
flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
therefore the first time you applied power to your solenoid with the cathode
to ground, you blew it!-----(Literally!)
All relays, solenoids, or other inductive coils powered by DC should have a
diode across them to quench the negative spike ( inductive back-EMF [Electro
Motive Force]) produced by the collapsing field in the coil when the power
to it is shut off. Without the diode, the spike will play "merry hell" with
switch contacts and could affect delicate electronic circuits that do not
have spike protection. (I hope your instruments survived, but desist from
further application of power until you replace the diode).---The high
voltage produced in ignition coils is done exactly by the collapsing field
in the primary winding when the breaker points open, stepped-up by the
secondary winding. There is no diode there!
The ACS A-510-2 ignition switch comes with a diode to put across the starter
solenoid winding but I did not use it because it had the connecting
terminals crimped on to the diode wires (solid conductors) which is bad
practice, as solid copper wire will "cold flow" and the terminals will
become loose, which was the case with that diode. So I used another diode
with stranded wire pig-tails soldered to it and terminals crimped on them.
These diodes are very common and any electronics shop, (eg. Radio Shack)
would have them.
The 1N4001 to 1N4006 series are fine. These are "rectifier" diodes. "Signal"
diodes are not rugged enough therefore not recommended.
BTW: I hope all builders using the electric primer valve have a diode across
it. I got mine from Spruce and no diode was supplied.
Cheers!!----Merry Xmas-----Henry Hore---(retired electronics eng,
once program mgr.of Space Shuttle Canada Arm electronics system)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ross Schlotthauer <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib |
Thanks Dan!
--- Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
> Yeah, the instructions aren't really clear on this.
> I drilled mine right
> after riveting the center section and it worked out
> fine.
>
> Outboard seat ribs are covered here:
> http://www.rvproject.com/20021026.html
> and here:
> http://www.rvproject.com/20021027.html
>
> And by the way...save yourself the time and drill
> the nutplate holes in the
> outboard seat ribs at the same time you drill the
> rest of the holes. I
> waited because I was unsure, and ended up drilling
> them after the side skins
> came off for deburring. No harm in drilling them
> earlier.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ross Schlotthauer" <rdschlotthauer(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: RV7 - F715 Seat Rib
>
>
>
> >
> > Dear List,
> >
> > Can anyone out there tell me the appropriate time
> to
> > drill the F715 seat ribs to the bottom center
> section
> > skin and the seat skins. I can't find it in the
> > plans.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ross Schlotthauer
> > RV-7 Fuse
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> latest messages.
> List members.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
> The Lycomings are certified
> to TBO at full rated power.
Whatever. Since we are NOT certifying engines here, the real question is, "How
long will the engine last under the conditions of use?" The evidence presented
so far indicates that, assuming a well-developed engine-PSRU-prop combination
and well-designed ancillary systems, an auto engine can last many hundreds of
hours in aircraft use, if not longer.
Is there anyone here who still doubts that?
Tedd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Doug, as a PS to my earlier posting, if you have a diode on the master
solenoid connected the same way, it's blown too! Check any others you may
have in your wiring also.------Cheers!!------Henry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Service Bulletin |
The just issued service bulletin calling for the inspection of the various
hoses for possible defects seems reasonable enough. All of the hoses in my
FWF kit are easy enough to inspect mostly by holding up to the light and
examining internally, except for the VA-133. This hose is only
approximately 7/16 dia. yet is 27" long. With the fittings attached the
orfice is way too small to check this way. Has anyone come up with a way
to definitively examine the internal structure of this particular hose?
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TBO & alternative engines. |
the real question is, "How
long will the engine last under the conditions of use?" The evidence
presented
so far indicates that, assuming a well-developed engine-PSRU-prop
combination
and well-designed ancillary systems, an auto engine can last many hundreds
of
hours in aircraft use, if not longer.
Is there anyone here who still doubts that?
Tedd
I'm a believer. I was very pleased to find that the apex seals were only
worn about 30% of allowable after 856 hours. This is the fastest wearing
part in a rotary engine, everything else had no measurable wear. First 200
hours were flown at very conservative power settings (40 - 50% cruise) but
the last 400 were at typical aircraft numbers (60 - 75%)
But the biggest factor regarding alternative engines has not been mentioned
yet.
At this point in time, the over-riding factor in deciding whether or not to
use something other than a Lycoming should be whether the idea appeals to
you. This situation is slowly changing but in most cases, there are
*many* more details for the builder to work out that don't have to be
considered with a Lyc. This factor should not be underestimated and it is
the reason that the majority of auto powered projects never get off the
ground. If you are not excited from the start about having something
different under the cowl, it would be silly to even consider anything other
than a Lycoming.
Cost of an auto conversion can be a little less than a good used Lyc, but
not enough to be the deciding factor. Having said that, the cost and
availability of good used Lycs seems to be going up all the time though.
Tracy Crook
Mazda 13B powered RV-4 (1300 hrs)
Mazda 20B powered RV-8 (carefully cutting the canopy today)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual crank-triggered
Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I thought I'd pass along
the info FYI...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....
IAD03IA017
Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8, N184CM,
experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent into Leesburg
Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane landed uneventfully,
and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was not injured. No flight
plan was filed for the flight that originated at Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1),
Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400. Visual meteorological conditions
prevailed for the personal flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was forced
to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern the
engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the ramp, he
determined that the right ignition source was working intermittently.
The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown, and
returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal descent
into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was "completely
dead."
The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with Hall Effect
Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and found
the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back plate exhibited
rotational scoring.
The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a total
of 34 hours.
According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and there
been no reported failures.
The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's Materials
Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Okay, okay, I do feel like an idiot : ) I painted my nosewheel fork with primer/rustoleum
just after getting the finish kit and had long since forgotton to
even think about what material it was made out of...I usually don't lubricate
bolts going into other stuff like lock nuts, plate nuts, castle nuts, etc...and
in fact if you're torqueing something you're supposed to use DRY threads. This
is obviously different, and if I had thought about it a bit more, it would
have made perfect sense (yes, I DO use anti-seize when installing steel spark
plugs into aluminum cylinder heads).
So...for anyone else out there with a nosedragger, just in case you did't already
realize this,
USE ANTI-SEIZE LUBRICANT ON THE NOSEWHEEL FORWARD BRACKET ATTACHMENT BOLTS and
save yourself some grief.
Off to the hardware store for a helicoil set...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D might fly someday if I can quit screwing stuff up...
From: "Tom Green" <tomg(at)vansaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping
Date: Fri, 13 Dec 2002 07:14:12 -0800
Probably the only thing we can imagine is that you have not used
some type of lubricant on the threads... running dry threads in
aluminum (or for that matter anything) is probably not a good
idea... aluminum has a tendency to gall and being dry worsens
this... Tom @ Van's
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel fork forward bracket threads stripping
Any time you thread a hard metal into a soft metal, (or vice-versa) you
should use anti-seize compound on the threads. That's why it's called
anti-SIEZE compound. I use Permatex's stuff and if you have an engine in
your velocipede with an aluminum cylinder head, they tell you to use the
same stuff on the spark-plugs! "Elementary my dear Watson"!
Cheers!!---------Henry Hore
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Guys,
Had a weird thing happen today...I remounted my nosewheel fairing
to
check the fit and when I went to remove it, I had a hard time getting
the forward bracket bolts out (the ones with a hex head--this is the
new-style wheel pant on my RV-8A if that makes a difference, but I
think
they're all the same). They seemed be binding up during removal,
and
once I got them out, there was metal on the threads....almost like it
stripped out some of the internal threads tapped into the nosegear
fork.
I'm totally mystified because they went in pretty easy (didn't have
any
signs of being cross-threaded) and I didn't torque them down, just
barely snug enough to check the wheel pant fit. I've had them in
and out at least a dozen times now during the fitting process for
the nosewheel pant.
I'm thinking I'll try running a tap through to clean up the threads and
maybe get a couple new bolts from the local hardware store (if I
can find them), but...has anyone else with a training wheel had
problems like this? I'm not even flying yet so I'm not too
encouraged with the
longevity of this arrangement as it will have to be removed/replaced
periodically. The threads are looking pretty messed up.
Maybe I should have got a taildragger afterall : )
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
>
> Doug! You have connected the diode the wrong way! It is now blown to
> smithereens! The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it.
Current
> flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
> therefore the first time you applied power to your solenoid with the
cathode
> to ground, you blew it!-----(Literally!)
>
> All relays, solenoids, or other inductive coils powered by DC should have
a
> diode across them to quench the negative spike ( inductive back-EMF
[Electro
> Motive Force]) produced by the collapsing field in the coil when the power
> to it is shut off. Without the diode, the spike will play "merry hell"
with
> switch contacts and could affect delicate electronic circuits that do not
> have spike protection. (I hope your instruments survived, but desist from
> further application of power until you replace the diode).---The high
> voltage produced in ignition coils is done exactly by the collapsing field
> in the primary winding when the breaker points open, stepped-up by the
> secondary winding. There is no diode there!
>
> The ACS A-510-2 ignition switch comes with a diode to put across the
starter
> solenoid winding but I did not use it because it had the connecting
> terminals crimped on to the diode wires (solid conductors) which is bad
> practice, as solid copper wire will "cold flow" and the terminals will
> become loose, which was the case with that diode. So I used another diode
> with stranded wire pig-tails soldered to it and terminals crimped on them.
>
> These diodes are very common and any electronics shop, (eg. Radio Shack)
> would have them.
> The 1N4001 to 1N4006 series are fine. These are "rectifier" diodes.
"Signal"
> diodes are not rugged enough therefore not recommended.
>
> BTW: I hope all builders using the electric primer valve have a diode
across
> it. I got mine from Spruce and no diode was supplied.
> Cheers!!----Merry Xmas-----Henry Hore---(retired electronics eng,
> once program mgr.of Space Shuttle Canada Arm electronics system)
Well guys, I'm not so sure I wired it incorrectly in light of this note from
Gus at Van's (I sent him a digital photo of the installation... also I did
find the instructions and they state to place the red banded end of the
diode (BTW, this is a heat shrinked connection with a red band at one end)
at the "S" terminal and the other goes to ground. I checked continuity
along the diode connection and I do have continuity. But Gus may have a
point regarding the voltage drop. Remember, I have not run this engine yet
and my battery voltage is only 11.5 right now (I run it down and charge it
up as I work on the airplane). I'd say the logical solution is to change
the wiring to put all the EI instruments on the avionics bus which is
controlled by a separate switch which is off for start.
Doug
Gus' comments:
The wiring sounds correct, the diode red band should be toward the
S terminal. Possibly the problem is not a voltage surge from the
starter, but the result of a voltage drop caused by running the
starter. The diodes are not intended to protect the instruments. I
would turn them off for engine start, you can turn them on once it is
running to see oil press etc. The diodes are there to protect the
starter and master switches.
Gus
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
Can someone shed light here?
jim
Tampa
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
czechsix(at)juno.com
Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual
crank-triggered Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I
thought I'd pass along the info FYI...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....
IAD03IA017
Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
completed.
On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8,
N184CM, experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent
into Leesburg Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane
landed uneventfully, and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was
not injured. No flight plan was filed for the flight that originated at
Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1), Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400.
Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight conducted
under 14 CFR Part 91.
According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was
forced to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern
the engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the
ramp, he determined that the right ignition source was working
intermittently.
The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown,
and returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal
descent into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was
"completely dead."
The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with
Hall Effect Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and
found the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back
plate exhibited rotational scoring.
The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a
total of 34 hours.
According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and
there been no reported failures.
The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's
Materials Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
>
>
>Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual
>crank-triggered Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I
>thought I'd pass along the info FYI...
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D finishing....
>
>
>IAD03IA017
>Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
>Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
>Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8,
>N184CM, experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent
>into Leesburg Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane
>landed uneventfully, and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was
>not injured. No flight plan was filed for the flight that originated at
>Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1), Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400.
>Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight
>conducted under 14 CFR Part 91.
>
>According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was
>forced to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic
>pattern the engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing
>to the ramp, he determined that the right ignition source was working
>intermittently.
>
>The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown,
>and returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal
>descent into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was
>"completely dead."
>
>The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with
>Hall Effect Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
>
>The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and
>found the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back
>plate exhibited rotational scoring.
>
>The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a
>total of 34 hours.
>
>According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and
>there been no reported failures.
>
>The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's
>Materials Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
Yikes! I would be most interested in the outcome of the Material Lab's
findings. I have one of these modules controlling my Lightspeed...but still
have the mag on the left side. With this information, I'm glad I chose to
keep the old sparky as a backup. I still love the LSE system, but with my
recent ignition failure in my pickup truck, I no longer feel this technology
to be as failure proof as I used to. Oh well, nothing is perfect and, as
they say, "stuff" happens. Just have to be prepared to deal with it if/when
you draw the short straw.
I'm very glad the pilot is OK.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
Hi Jim,
If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done in
place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on the
other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
place with the locknut.
It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor. When
you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor being
the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts on
the housing. The timing is set.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
> What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>
> I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
> side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
> installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>
> I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>
> Can someone shed light here?
>
> jim
> Tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees BTC
(instead of the required 25). The LEDs get the timing close enough to start
the engine - then you must set the timing using a timing light.
The easiest way to do this is to make a 25 degree BTC mark on the back of
the flywheel that lines up with whatever engine reference mark you want (I
used the center of my top forward engine baffle). This way you are behind
the prop pointing the timing light forward to check the timing. This takes
just a minute or two to set the hall effect modules.
Carl Froehlich
RV-8A flying (dual Lightspeed ignitions)
Vienna, VA.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
Hi Jim,
If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done in
place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on the
other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
place with the locknut.
It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor. When
you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor being
the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts on
the housing. The timing is set.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
> What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>
> I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
> side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
> installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>
> I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>
> Can someone shed light here?
>
> jim
> Tampa
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Gus's comments have merit and I'd certainly charge the battery and try
again. I don't have my E.I. gauges on my avionics master and they do just
fine during start. BTW, monitor your voltage during start, if should drop to
about 9.7 if your battery is healthy.
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
>
> >
> > Doug! You have connected the diode the wrong way! It is now blown to
> > smithereens! The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it.
> Current
> > flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (-
negative)
> > therefore the first time you applied power to your solenoid with the
> cathode
> > to ground, you blew it!-----(Literally!)
> >
> > All relays, solenoids, or other inductive coils powered by DC should
have
> a
> > diode across them to quench the negative spike ( inductive back-EMF
> [Electro
> > Motive Force]) produced by the collapsing field in the coil when the
power
> > to it is shut off. Without the diode, the spike will play "merry hell"
> with
> > switch contacts and could affect delicate electronic circuits that do
not
> > have spike protection. (I hope your instruments survived, but desist
from
> > further application of power until you replace the diode).---The high
> > voltage produced in ignition coils is done exactly by the collapsing
field
> > in the primary winding when the breaker points open, stepped-up by the
> > secondary winding. There is no diode there!
> >
> > The ACS A-510-2 ignition switch comes with a diode to put across the
> starter
> > solenoid winding but I did not use it because it had the connecting
> > terminals crimped on to the diode wires (solid conductors) which is bad
> > practice, as solid copper wire will "cold flow" and the terminals will
> > become loose, which was the case with that diode. So I used another
diode
> > with stranded wire pig-tails soldered to it and terminals crimped on
them.
> >
> > These diodes are very common and any electronics shop, (eg. Radio Shack)
> > would have them.
> > The 1N4001 to 1N4006 series are fine. These are "rectifier" diodes.
> "Signal"
> > diodes are not rugged enough therefore not recommended.
> >
> > BTW: I hope all builders using the electric primer valve have a diode
> across
> > it. I got mine from Spruce and no diode was supplied.
> > Cheers!!----Merry Xmas-----Henry Hore---(retired electronics
eng,
> > once program mgr.of Space Shuttle Canada Arm electronics system)
>
> Well guys, I'm not so sure I wired it incorrectly in light of this note
from
> Gus at Van's (I sent him a digital photo of the installation... also I did
> find the instructions and they state to place the red banded end of the
> diode (BTW, this is a heat shrinked connection with a red band at one end)
> at the "S" terminal and the other goes to ground. I checked continuity
> along the diode connection and I do have continuity. But Gus may have a
> point regarding the voltage drop. Remember, I have not run this engine
yet
> and my battery voltage is only 11.5 right now (I run it down and charge it
> up as I work on the airplane). I'd say the logical solution is to change
> the wiring to put all the EI instruments on the avionics bus which is
> controlled by a separate switch which is off for start.
>
> Doug
>
> Gus' comments:
>
>
> The wiring sounds correct, the diode red band should be toward the
> S terminal. Possibly the problem is not a voltage surge from the
> starter, but the result of a voltage drop caused by running the
> starter. The diodes are not intended to protect the instruments. I
> would turn them off for engine start, you can turn them on once it is
> running to see oil press etc. The diodes are there to protect the
> starter and master switches.
>
> Gus
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
Hi Carl,
Good point.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com>
Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure)
>
> The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
> ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees BTC
> (instead of the required 25). The LEDs get the timing close enough to
start
> the engine - then you must set the timing using a timing light.
>
> The easiest way to do this is to make a 25 degree BTC mark on the back of
> the flywheel that lines up with whatever engine reference mark you want (I
> used the center of my top forward engine baffle). This way you are behind
> the prop pointing the timing light forward to check the timing. This
takes
> just a minute or two to set the hall effect modules.
>
> Carl Froehlich
> RV-8A flying (dual Lightspeed ignitions)
> Vienna, VA.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done
in
> place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on
the
> other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
> place with the locknut.
>
> It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor.
When
> you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
> the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor
being
> the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
> unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
> lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts
on
> the housing. The timing is set.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
> >
> > What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
> >
> > I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the
right
> > side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which
is
> > installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
> >
> > I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
> >
> > Can someone shed light here?
> >
> > jim
> > Tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
>
>Actually you are incorrect
and
>I personally have flown an under powered Cherokee 140 at full power its
>entire service life doing photo runs and it easily made TBO because we were
>running daily flights.
What did you photograph, Wheeler, the lodge in Death Valley??
How else could you fly at full power?? Super cold weather while
photographing seals on ice floes in the Arctic Ocean??
I'm guessing you meant full throttle. I don't think that it is at all
uncommon for an O-320 to make TBO when operated as generally recommended
and cared for properly. No issue with this.
You are not alone in sometimes forgetting that full throttle is not full
power except during a very few minutes in the average engine's life.
In your experience, do Lycomings tend to lose the ability to make full
power as they near TBO?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK flying!
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
> The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
> ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees
BTC>
At what rpm are you using the timing light? I am using dual Lightspeed Eng
ignitions systems and have set them per the maker's instructions, using the
LED indications.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
>
> >
> > The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this
Lightspeed
> > ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> > light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees
BTC
> > (instead of the required 25). The LEDs get the timing close enough to
>
I have asked Klaus for his view on this information, and will post his reply
when received.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Alt Engine-- Loyd/Subaru? |
Am no engine historian, but let me toss this into the mix. About 40 years
ago a military acquaintance returned from Germany with a liquid cooled four
cylinder opposed engined Loyd automobile. That company disapeared, and then
a strikingly similarly engine appeared in the imported Subaru. At the time,
about 25 years ago, I suspected maybe the design and tooling had been
transfered from Germany to Japan. Any takers?
Jack Blomgren, Twin City RV Wing
-8 finish kit on order
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Service Bulletin |
To check the small hoses you could take a strong string and blow it through
the hose , then tie a small cloth on the end and pull it through.
If that isn't fancy enough ; use a rifle cleaning rod .
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Taylor" <david(at)hom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: I Took the Plunge |
Thanks,
I've got an IA and a couple of experienced builders on my side. Hopefully
things will go fairly smooth.
-David
----- Original Message -----
From: <Oldsfolks(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: I Took the Plunge
>
> You will need help to get started if you aren't REALLY familiar with
aircraft
> sheet metal work. Get an experienced aircraft metal person to help you
> through the tail feathers - then it's pretty well repetition after that .
> I made some mistakes when I started , and built another horizontal
stabilizer
> . That can get costly -- and disappointing !!
> Good Luck , You made a good choice ,
>
> RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
> Charleston, Arkansas
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Froehlich" <carlfro(at)erols.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure) |
Timing is checked at idle. Since the manifold pressure hose is removed
before the timing is checked, RPM does not affect timing setting.
If memory serves me right, Klaus's instructions do discuss setting timing
with a timing light.
Again the LEDs just get you in the ball park.
Carl.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Subject: Re: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module timing (was failure)
> The timing LED should NOT be used as the final timing for this Lightspeed
> ignition system. Using the LED only, then checking timing with a timing
> light, we found the actual timing to be anywhere from 35 to 50 degrees
BTC>
At what rpm are you using the timing light? I am using dual Lightspeed Eng
ignitions systems and have set them per the maker's instructions, using the
LED indications.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
Jim
It is exactly the part you think it is. It is usually a "star" shaped iron gear
(as you've described it) It is also sometimes called a reluctor. (Sort of like
valve lifter or valve tappet) When the tips of the iron rotor pass close by
the pick up coil, a very weak voltage is induced. This voltage is used to signal
the control box to break the ground to the ignition coil. This event causes
the spark to be generated by the coil.
Charlie Kuss
>
>What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>
>I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
>side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
>installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>
>I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>
>Can someone shed light here?
>
>jim
>Tampa
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>czechsix(at)juno.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
>Anyone else had, or heard of, a failure like this? I have dual
>crank-triggered Lightspeeds so this failure mode won't affect me, but I
>thought I'd pass along the info FYI...
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D finishing....
>
>
>IAD03IA017
>Incident occurred Tuesday, October 22, 2002 at LEESBURG, VA
>Aircraft:CRAIG N. MOEN RV-8, registration: N184CM
>Injuries: 1 Uninjured.
>This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors.
>Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been
>completed.
>
>On October 22, 2002, about 1600 eastern standard time, a homebuilt RV-8,
>N184CM, experienced a failure of the right ignition system during descent
>into Leesburg Executive Airport (JYO), Leesburg, Virginia. The airplane
>landed uneventfully, and the certificated private pilot/builder/owner was
>not injured. No flight plan was filed for the flight that originated at
>Elizabethtown Airport, (4W1), Elizabethtown, North Carolina, about 1400.
>Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the personal flight conducted
>under 14 CFR Part 91.
>
>According to the pilot, he was on a return flight from Florida, when he was
>forced to land at Elizabethtown due to weather. While in the traffic pattern
>the engine backfired a few times. After landing, and while taxiing to the
>ramp, he determined that the right ignition source was working
>intermittently.
>
>The pilot was unable to replace the right ignition source in Elizabethtown,
>and returned to Leesburg the following day. As the airplane made a normal
>descent into Leesburg, the pilot discovered the right ignition source was
>"completely dead."
>
>The pilot had installed a Dual Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system with
>Hall Effect Sensor Modules, which replaced both magnetos.
>
>The pilot removed the back plate of the right Hall Effect sensor module and
>found the timing rotor had fractured, and the internal face of the back
>plate exhibited rotational scoring.
>
>The pilot reported that the right Hall Effect sensor module had accrued a
>total of 34 hours.
>
>According to the manufacturer, 400 timing rotors were currently in use and
>there been no reported failures.
>
>The fractured timing rotor and back plate were sent to Safety Board's
>Materials Laboratory, Washington, D.C, for further examination.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
My priorities in flying have always been safety first and keeping the operating
costs as low as possible and in order to do this the handling of the engine(s)
has to be near the top of the list.
In this case we are talking about naturally aspirated four cylinder Lycomings 0320
and up,it would be the same for the six cylinders.
My Lycoming manual for the 0360 says the maximum continuous power setting is 75%
and the red line RPM is 2700. Maximum cylinder head temperature 500 degrees
F but for maximum service life it should not exceed 435.
Some years back I was part owner in a charter operation and my job revolved around
maintenance and operating costs. The fleet of aircraft included nine Piper
Aztecs equipped with Lycomings. From operating experience we developed a engine
handling program that guaranteed all these engines went to TBO without a single
cylinder change.
The engines were new or factory remans run on Shell W oil. Each aircraft flew around
1000 hours per year.
Over a eight year period accumulated over 70,000 hours without a single cylinder
change or failure.
The engine handling procedures used can be seen on my post, Care and Feeding in
the archives. We also operated DC 3's and Beech 18's and the same general rules
applied.
Proper engine handling is a absolute must in single engine aircraft for safety
reasons and I believe we have an obligation to our passengers to do this.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: 360 makes 180 hp |
The name of the magazine was Private Pilot should anyone be interested.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: 360 makes 180 hp
>
> Hi Glenn,
> This might interest you;
>
> Yesterday I saw a January issue of one of the aircraft magazines has an
> article on the recently discussed Moony / Porche combination. It is
pictured
> and listed on the cover.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed hall effect module failure |
Jim in Kelowna,
I think you accidently made a mis-statement below. You compared the timing rotor
to the ignition rotor in a distributor. The timing rotor, in conjunction with
the pick up coil, signals the control box when to trigger the ignition coil
primary circuit. (in electronic ignition systems) The comparable part in a "points
style" distributor would be the points cam lobe. The ignition points are
opened and closed by the cam lobe. The cam lobe is attached to the distributor
shaft. It (and the timing rotor) is rotated by the shaft. This is how the ignition
coil's primary circuit is controlled in the points (aka Kettering ignition)
system.
The ignition rotor sits on the distributor shaft, above the cam lobe. I think
this is where the confusion is. The rotor's job is to distribute the spark generated
by the ignition coil's secondary circuit to the appropriate spark plug.
Think of a black jack dealer dealing cards to the players. The spark comes out
of the ignition coil, through the coil wire, into the distributor cap, into
the center of the rotor. As the rotor is spun by the distributor shaft, it's
tip passes under the outer terminals of the distributor cap. These are the contact
points which the individual spark plug wires attach to.
The spark then jumps a slight air gap from the rotor tip, to each spark plug wire
and spark plug in turn. I hope this clears things up.
Charlie Kuss
You know you are getting old when mechanics below the age of 35 have no clue how
a points ignition system works or how to troubleshoot one!!!! ;-(
>Hi Jim,
>
>If you take the "Hall Effect Module" off of your engine (this can be done in
>place) and remove the cover you will find "the timing rotor" residing on the
>other end of the shaft that the drive gear was installed onto and held in
>place with the locknut.
>
>It serves essentially the same function as the rotor in a distributor. When
>you turn the housing you are changing the relationship timing wise between
>the hall effect magnet and the pick up. The engine driven timing rotor being
>the constant and the housing being the variable. With the re-install the
>unit with the bolts a bit loose. Turn the housing until the timing LED is
>lit at the manufactures suggested position and tighten the clamping bolts on
>the housing. The timing is set.
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Norman" <jnorman(at)intermapsystems.com>
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Lightspeed hall effect module failure
>
>
>>
>> What is "the timing rotor" of the Hall Effect Module.
>>
>> I have a single LightSpeed system, with a Hall Effect Module on the right
>> side. I installed it, and recall that it simply has a shaft onto which is
>> installed a small gear via a keyed slot, and held on with a locknut.
>>
>> I'm unsure what a "timing rotor" is.
>>
>> Can someone shed light here?
>>
>> jim
>> Tampa
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Temp Sender? |
Mark,
It's the oil temperature sender. If the EIS is designed to use that sender, it
will work. An easy way to check it is:
Remove the sender from the filter adapter. Connect the center terminal to the appropriate
wire in the EIS. Attach a ground wire to the sender housing. Attach
the other end of the ground wire to a good ground on the airframe. Submerge the
sender first in ice, than in boiling water. You should get a reading of about
32 degrees or a bit less (in ice) and 212 degrees (or a bit less if you are
at high altitude) in the boiling water. You can use this simple test to check
the accuracy of your temp sender system.
Charlie Kuss
>
>On my O-320 (E3D) there is what appears to be a sender unit on top of
>the spin-on oil filter housing, directly in front of the filter. I can
>find no reference in the Lycoming manuals. I have the drawing of the
>rear accessory case and it shows a temp sender on the rear of the filter
>screen housing (which is not like my engine). What it is? If oil p. or
>t., can this be used for the EIS input?
>
>TIA from The PossumWorks
>Mark -6A, firewall forwardish...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternative Engine Questions |
Yeah, I am learning, and having folks so respected like Tracy Cook and Belted
Airpower and so on are real experts. Just because I do not agree with
everything they say does not mean I do not think they are engine gurus, I am
just a doubting Thomas--sorry.
I have always owned import vehicles. The Mazda RX7 sucked fuel, was fast and
very smooth, 30,000 reliable miles when I traded it for a Suburu wagon with
the 1600 flat 4. That was the worst car I ever owned, noisy, slow and it over
heated when I would use the a/c. I got tired one day of sweating and refused
to turn the ac off--it overheated--good riddance. Fiat--Fix it Again ah
Tony!! Ford (not an import) very flammable and usually found on road dead.
Chevy, well the Vega is responsible for my Import lust. Toyota, does not get
any better.
In all honesty I think the Eggenfellner Subies look great and I hope they
work great for the guys buying them. I bet they are successful. The
BeltedAirpower also looks great and he is flying while I run my mouth, both
companies have nice and informative websites. I wish I could take them up on
an offer to show me but I am to busy but I bet he would make me eat crow.
The most advanced engines right now commonly encountered are motorcycle
engines, though 4-stroke dirt bikes are not designed for reliability, they
have some awesome technology in those little screamers. I rode a Yamaha
YZ426F, holy cow!!!!!!!!!! I know that Rotax has an aluminum V6 for marine
use and it like the 912/914 really is high tech (at least a little). Jabiru
has a good looking engine and I would love to see one in an RV. If I had the
money to experiment I would love to try that Chevy V6 with aluminum heads and
block. I think there are a lot of guys out there that would be really
interested in this if a package was put together, dry sump and limited acro
capable. I still think it would run 20,000 plus dollars but it is a start. I
am going to shut up now--you are welcome. I don't want to step on anyone. Do
Not Archive JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
> The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because of flammability, and
toxic
> vapors that could result from a short situation, etc.
> Electrical tape placed strategically with good flammability ratings
instead?
> Robert
I must agree. That is why my plastic cable ties are all Mil Spec.
I got them at Terminal Town
http://www.terminaltown.com/index.htm
The page with the ties is
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page8.html
They are made by Thomas&Bates
The trademark is CATAMOUNT
I have two sizes. The small are working for almost everything.
Part # L-5-30-9-C Intermediate Cable Tie
Length 5.6"
Width 0.130"
Tensile Strength 30 lbs / 134N
Temp Rating 185F / 85C
Max Wire Bundle 1.25"
Tool / Setting L-200 / 3-5
Material Nylon Natural
Military Standard MS-3367-5-9
Also available are various wire bundling products for high temperature
areas. Check out this page:
http://www.terminaltown.com/Pages/Page206.html
I am striving to have every component of my aircraft the best possible.
Might be one of the reasons that I have been building for 7 years. One of
the others reasons would be that I have to work over 80 hours a week to pay
for it all.
Norman Hunger
RV6A Delta BC
>
> Norman wrote:
>
> >
> > > I'm building and RV-9A and am wondering how you
> > > are securing the aft fuselage wiring. The wire goes
> > > through snap bushings on the bulkheads, but how do
> > > you secure it between the bulkheads? Do you just
> > > lace it together and let it dangle?
> >
> > Does the RV9 use J-stringers to stiffen the fuselage side skins like my
> > RV6A?
> > I bundled my wires in plastic wrap then laid them in the J-stringers. A
few
> > holes and some mil spec plastic tie wraps and they are very secure. I
used
> > Van's snap bushings at the bulkheads.
> >
> > Norman Hunger
> > RV6A Delta BC
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
In a message dated 12/13/2002 11:29:51 AM Pacific Standard Time,
elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
> The stripe on a diode indicates the cathode side of it. Current
> flows from the anode side (+, positive) to the cathode side (- negative)
Au contrare Pierre! A diode is forward biased (conducting) when the cathode
is made more negative than the anode and the current flows from negative to
positive.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
"'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | RE: low level etc |
Well, I have no objection to the thread itself, it just seemed like the
tension was kinda high as a result of it and then JT came along to announce
a sudden change in the law and got royally trounced. He's a good guy and
that was just a little too much on the personal side for this forum IMHO. do
not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: JRWillJR(at)aol.com [mailto:JRWillJR(at)aol.com]
Subject: low level etc
Well, why unfortunately, every time an interesting thread gets going it gets
squashed. If I don't have interest I just bypass/delete it, I don't get
angry at the fellows who might have an interest in the topic, why have the
threads if commenting is not allowed? This is why I come and go from the
Matronics lists and while I used to contribute funds no longer do so because
folks get angry every time there is a discussion about anything other than
their own personal interests. Please do not be offended by me. Good luck
with your project. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE: low level etc |
In a message dated 12/14/2002 12:23:43 AM Central Standard Time,
wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us writes:
> Well, I have no objection to the thread itself, it just seemed like the
> tension was kinda high as a result of it and then JT came along to announce
> a sudden change in the law and got royally trounced. He's a good guy and
> that was just a little too much on the personal side for this forum IMHO.
> do
> not archive
>
Who is JT, I guess I missed that one and what law was suddenly changed? Do
Not Archive . JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <andrew.wereley(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Fuselage Jig |
Free to good home, one RV-8 fuselage jig. I have recently moved my project
out of the jig and now I need to get the jig out of my garage. I'm happy to
donate it to whomever is willing to haul it away. It's straight and I'm
pleased with the way my fuse is proceeding.
I'm located in Vacaville, CA which is about 40 mi. northeast of San Francisco.
If we cut the jig in half, it will fit in the bed of a pickup with the gate
down and can be spliced back together later. Please reply off list to
awereley(at)hotmail.com.
Andy Wereley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillRVSIX(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Van's instrument lighting ? |
Hello IM trying to figure out the breaker size for van's lighted instruments.
I have six lighted instrument connecting to a breaker but I don't know how
many amps or watts the lights are to figure out the breaker and wire size.
its a 12 volt system.
2 ?-- My six flight instruments will all be lite by the EL light bezels and I
was wondering if any one new if the van's lighted instruments are going to
match or look the same color white/blue color as the light bezels or is it
such a problem to match lighted instruments I shouldn't worry about it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Service Bulletin |
RV-List message posted by: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
To
check the small hoses you could take a strong string and blow it through
the
hose , then tie a small cloth on the end and pull it through.
If that isn't
fancy enough ; use a rifle cleaning rod .
RV-4 , N1191X ,
Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
Unless I am missing something here, the string trick is
impractical since the fittings installed on both ends of the VA-133 have an
opening of only .154 dia. It would take a pretty small cloth affixed to
one end of the string to pass through such a small opening. Then, once
inside the hose, it would have no way to break loose a possible curl in the
material outlined in the service bulletin. I'm not sure how a rifle cleaning rod
(do they come in such a small diameter?) would help either. Bottom line is
whatever you insert into this 7/16" hose must pass through a .154 gateway.
--- Rick Galati
--- rick07x(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
Norman wrote:
>
>
> > The plastic wrap makes me a little nervous because of flammability, and
> toxic
> > vapors that could result from a short situation, etc.
> > Electrical tape placed strategically with good flammability ratings
> instead?
> > Robert
>
> I must agree. That is why my plastic cable ties are all Mil Spec.
>
> I am striving to have every component of my aircraft the best possible.
> Might be one of the reasons that I have been building for 7 years. One of
> the others reasons would be that I have to work over 80 hours a week to pay
> for it all.
>
> Norman Hunger
> RV6A Delta BC
I certainly find no fault with building high quality into our planes. If
you are concerned about flammability in wire bundles.......STOP.... and
reexamine your wiring architecture! The reason we install breakers
and/or fuses is to achieve a wiring architecture where there is no
possibility of wires getting hot enough to melt. There is no reason to
have ANY wires longer than a few inches that are not protected by either
a breaker, fuse, or fusible link. Wires that are bundled together in the
fuse or wing most definitely should be protected by devices that will
trip or blow in milliseconds after a short occurs, long before
flammability becomes an issue.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Bob Nuckolls disciple)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Doug,
I always leave the elect. buss off during engine start. That much load on
the system does weird things.
Pat Allender
RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Alternate Engines |
This subject has been beat to death this past week but regardless of each ones
personal opinion we desperately need a reliable source of power for our RV's that
could be had for say 10,000 firewall forward.
As it stands now the cost of the new Lycomings eliminates many potential builders
and this is a shame. Van has succeeded in giving us the worlds best kitbuilt
at a very affordable price, now it is up to someone to come up with suitable
power at a affordable price. From what I have picked out of the past week's discussion
it seems that we are getting closer.
I have no problem with the development of automotive power and encourage those
who are trying and would be more than willing to bolt one on the front of my aircraft
if it could meet my list of qualifications.
The installed weight be no heavier than a Lycoming of comparable power.
Be able to fly in formation with another same model Lyco RV both using the same
manifold pressure.
Be able to run a Hartzell constant speed prop.
Fit into a cowling that would not take away from the good looks of an RV.
I think it can be done or maybe is already.
The RV list gets carried away once and awhile and one is tempted to push the un-subscribe
button but then pause for a moment and think about all the good that
comes out of it. We are fortunate to have such a list especially during the
building process.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Princeton capacitive fuel level probes |
Hi Mark:
I am using the VM1000 in my 6A and the fuel level probes that came with the
kit. They are probes that go the full length of the tank top to bottom. I
installed them along the back baffle, easily done when the rear baffle is
of. They have a threaded end and screw into a fitting riveted into the lower
rear corner that does not interfere with the inspection cover. the
calibration screws are in the threaded end and are easily reached with the
root fairing off. If for any reason they had to be removed it is just a
matter of taking the tank of and unscrewing the probe.
These probes may not be compatible with your installation but may be worth
looking at.
Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B. C.
----- Original Message -----
From: <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: Princeton capacitive fuel level probes
>
> Guys,
>
> Is anyone out there using Princeton capacitive fuel level probes? Grand
Rapids Technologies is selling them with their EIS engine monitor, and they
are available pre-bent to fit the RV tanks so I'm assuming there must be
some in service. Any comments pro or con? I already have the Stewart
Warner float senders but am thinking about getting the capacitive probes and
putting them in before my wings are permanently mounted. They are more
expensive at $95 each but if it saves me *ever* having to pull them out for
replacement it's probly worthwhile. I know it can be done but in my case it
will be worse on the left wing since I have my fuel pump and gascolator in
the wing root area...
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D fiberglass...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JRWillJR(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternate Engines, suggestions, etc |
In a message dated 12/14/2002 11:37:39 AM Central Standard Time,
ebowhay(at)jetstream.net writes:
> The RV list gets carried away once and awhile and one is tempted to push the
> un-subscribe button but then pause for a moment and think about all the
> good that comes out of it. We are fortunate to have such a list especially
> during the building process.
Gosh, I thought we was just sitting around with some beers having a
discussion.
Perhaps the list could have moderators, long time members who would have the
power to "edit" offensive or inflammatory material. Sometimes people say
things that are meant as harmless and it does not come across that way. For a
well run forum visit www.tractorbynet . It is the most civil, friendly
place on the net. It has moderators but more than that the people are just
good people and the forum is designed to allow a wide variety of topics.
Visit www.usjabiru.com for a look at their 8 cylinder 180/200 horse
engine under going development. It is priced around 15,000 I think, not sure
about that price exactly.
I thought the only thread on this forum that had gotten nasty as of recent
was the Insurance one, I apologize if I have caused anyone heartburn, I was
not in that one. I learned somethings from the engine thread and I figure
there are folks shopping for engines so they may have been interested in a
pro/con discussion.
Y'all have a happy holiday, I got to go fire up the Kubota, I am building a
new shop and need to get the slab banked in. If you think airplane engines
are expensive try looking at "real" tractors. Out of here for a while. Oh, do
not archive. JR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
"current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a battery
and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it. (assuming
the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
(anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the cathode)
and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the Anodes
connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode normally
when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike traveling
to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
hundred volts!
Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sport Aviation Mag and a Scanner (Not RV-Related) |
| From: | "Gannon, Terence" <Terence.Gannon(at)trican.ca> |
Hello Folks - this is not directly RV-related so pardon the interruption. Anybody
out there have a copy of the JULY 1995 edition of Sport Aviation, and wouldn't
mind scanning and sending an article for me? If so, please contact me off
list...thanx...
Terry in Calgary
RV-6 S/N 24414
"Right Wing"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> |
>
>Yeah, if anyone is really interested in this subject they would need to get
>the AC's on this subject, certification standards. There are beliefs and
>there are facts and then there is the real world. The Lycomings are certified
>to TBO at full rated power. There is no take off power limit etc on our
>little Lycs. It is 2700 RPM continuous sea level standard conditions for full
>TBO.
If someone can actually find this AC and tells us which AC and which
page talks about how TBO is defined I would love to have the info. I
have looked at all the engine and maintenance related ACs I can find
on the FAA web site, and I can't find any discussion of TBO and what
it really means.
I know that with the modern turbine engines the manufacturers get
really touchy if an operator wants to operate at anything approaching
max continuous power (or thrust for jet engines) continuously, as
they know that they probably won't get the engine life "guaranteed"
by the engine manufacturer. Depending on the aircraft's design
mission, the aircraft manufacturer defines a typical mission profile,
including climb and cruise power settings that are lower than max
continuous power, and the engine manufacturer provides engine life
guarantees based on this mission profile. If the aircraft
manufacturer later wants to increase the climb or cruise thrust there
is a lot of hard negotiation with the engine manufacturer about
engine life guarantees, even if the increased power levels are well
below maximum continuous power.
So, I would be quite surprised if the Lycoming TBO actually assumes
maximum continuous power for 2,000 hrs. Lots of folks claim to know
that this is how the TBO is defined, but I would love to see some
evidence.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
"current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a battery
and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it. (assuming
the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
(anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the cathode)
and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the Anodes
connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode normally
when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike traveling
to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
hundred volts!
Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
If I where to hold an imaginary diode in my thumb out closed fist with the
arrow symbol pointing up in the direction my thumb would be pointing. Which
end would I attach to the positive pole on whatever devise or application I
wish to protect or control?
Is this question too simplified, or am I not getting it at all?
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
<elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
>
> Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
> "current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is
ELECTRON
> flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
> negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a
battery
> and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it.
(assuming
> the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
> battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
> (anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the
cathode)
> and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
>
> That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the
Anodes
> connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
> energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode
normally
> when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
> off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
> polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
> there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike
traveling
> to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
> Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
> hundred volts!
>
> Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
> installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
> and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
> spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
> finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
> the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
> Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Miller Robert <rmiller3(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you secure wiring harnesses in the aft fuselage? |
I agree, absolutely.
Circuit protection is most important.
(Actually, second most important... right after designing the circuits properly
in the first place. That's why I too am a "Bob Nuckolls disciple".)
Nevertheless, I would not then go on to wrap bundles of wires in "plastic
wrap"... which was original point.
Would rather see wire ties or electrical tape with acceptable flammability
ratings for bundling wires, as needed.
Robert
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> I certainly find no fault with building high quality into our planes. If
> you are concerned about flammability in wire bundles.......STOP.... and
> reexamine your wiring architecture! The reason we install breakers
> and/or fuses is to achieve a wiring architecture where there is no
> possibility of wires getting hot enough to melt. There is no reason to
> have ANY wires longer than a few inches that are not protected by either
> a breaker, fuse, or fusible link. Wires that are bundled together in the
> fuse or wing most definitely should be protected by devices that will
> trip or blow in milliseconds after a short occurs, long before
> flammability becomes an issue.
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Bob Nuckolls disciple)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
>
> I have no problem with the development of automotive power and encourage
those who are trying and would be more than willing to bolt one on the front
of my aircraft if it could meet my list of qualifications.
>
> The installed weight be no heavier than a Lycoming of comparable power.
> Be able to fly in formation with another same model Lyco RV both using the
same manifold pressure.
> Be able to run a Hartzell constant speed prop.
> Fit into a cowling that would not take away from the good looks of an RV.
> Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C.
I'm to the 'Three out of 4' point now. I thought I could see my way clear
to make my RD-1A/B reduction drive work with a Hartzell CS because it would
be relatively easy to add a port and get oil through the hollow prop shaft.
But I recently read that the oil pressure from governor is around 1200 psi.
I'm not familiar with the plumbing of a Lyc. Can anyone briefly tell me how
the high pressure oil from the governor on the accessory case gets through
the crank to the prop? I can't imagine the oil seals necessary to do this.
Tracy Crook
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>>
>>Yeah, if anyone is really interested in this subject they would need to get
>>the AC's on this subject, certification standards. There are beliefs and
>>there are facts and then there is the real world. The Lycomings are certified
>>to TBO at full rated power. There is no take off power limit etc on our
>>little Lycs. It is 2700 RPM continuous sea level standard conditions for full
>>TBO.
>
>
> If someone can actually find this AC and tells us which AC and which
> page talks about how TBO is defined I would love to have the info. I
> have looked at all the engine and maintenance related ACs I can find
> on the FAA web site, and I can't find any discussion of TBO and what
> it really means.
>
I have a copy of all of of Lycomings key reprints which is a compliation of key
maintenance and performance articles taken from the Textron Lycoming "Flyer" newsletter.
Every article on service life says "For maximum sevice life, maintain the following
recommended limits for continuous cruise operation:
(a) Engine power setting - 65% of rated or less"
(b) Cylinder head temperatures - 400deg F or below.
(c) Oil temperature - 165degF - 220deg F.
Lycoming also feels it is manditory to overhaul at 2000 hours or 12 years of service
life. They also say that there is no hard fast rule for determining when an engine
should be overhauled. It all is determined on how the engine is used in service.
It appears that there is nothing written that say an engine well run for 2000 hours
at full rated power setting of 100% based on the above saying maximum service at
65%
power.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Todd Houg <thoug(at)attglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Henry,
What you state below is correct, but I think you mis-read Doug's original description
of his connections. Doug's post states the following:
"I have the blue diode connected from the "S" terminal to ground with the red
band of the diode next to the "S" terminal."
Since the banded end of a diode corresponds to the cathode, Doug has the cathode
connected to the positive supply and the anode connected to ground just as you
described. Thus the Diode is reverese biased and non conducting until the coil
circuit opens and the coil inductance attempts to pull the voltage below ground
at which point the diode becomes forward biased and "clamps" the spike.
Todd Houg
Just another Electrical Engineer . . .
-----Original Message-----
From: Elsa & Henry
Subject: Re: RV-List: Protection diodes on starter solenoid
Au contraire to you, GV (your posting is not identified by your name) The
"current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
negative! If you connect a diode anode to the positive terminal of a battery
and the cathode of it to the negative terminal, you will blow it. (assuming
the battery has sufficient capacity to do just that, which an aircraft
battery sure has) That is why the schematic of a diode shows a triangle
(anode) pointing to a straight line across the triangle point (the cathode)
and indicates the direction of current flow. (Anode to cathode, or + to -)
That is why diodes connected across solenoid or relay coils have the Anodes
connected to ground and the Cathodes connected to the positive supply that
energizes the coil. There will not be any current through the diode normally
when the coil is energized, BUT when the current is interrupted (switched
off), the collapsing field in the coil will generate (induce) a reverse
polarity voltage which will cause the diode to conduct and quench it. If
there was no diode there to do this, the resulting negative spike traveling
to the switch contacts will cause arcing as the switch contacts open.
Depending on the inductance of the coil, that spike could reach several
hundred volts!
Try this: If you have a starter or master solenoid sitting around not
installed, connect the coil, without a diode, to a battery with clip leads
and verify that it operates OK. Now disconnect one lead and observe the
spark as the contact is broken. Repeat the exercise, but this time, hold a
finger in contact with the cliplead and the battery terminal as you break
the contact.- You will not like the jolt you feel!
Cheers!!----------Henry Hore
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie and Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Jim Jewell wrote:
>
> If I where to hold an imaginary diode in my thumb out closed fist with the
> arrow symbol pointing up in the direction my thumb would be pointing. Which
> end would I attach to the positive pole on whatever devise or application I
> wish to protect or control?
> Is this question too simplified, or am I not getting it at all?
>
> Jim in Kelowna
OK Jim, here's the answer, but you are ruining all the fun & controversy.
:-(
Tie the banded end to the same terminal as the wire that comes from the positive
terminal on the battery.
The unbanded end goes to terminal that gets tied to ground and/or the negative
terminal of the battery.
Remember that we are talking about the terminals for the *coil*, not the load
carrying terminals of the solenoid, relay or contactor. 'Solenoid' is included
because most starter 'solenoid's actually function as a true solenoid when they
move the pinion gear into mesh with the ring gear, and also as a 'contactor' or
'relay' by completing the high-current switch function to run the starter motor.
Charlie
now bored in Slobovia
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Stewart" <davestewart(at)globalserve.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead |
Dan........I questioned Vans about this a couple of months ago and Bruce
confirmed that the small aft lip in the top bulkhead goes on TOP and gets
partially cut away by radii. (The side view showing the top /bottom overlap
& harness wear block - and no "lip" in evidence - is correct). I did it this
way and it looks fine.
Dave (90252)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: Issue with upper baggage bulkhead
>
> I'm about to trim the curved shape into the F-652 upper baggage bulkhead
> (corrugated skin that attaches to F-706). I have an issue with the stock
> Van's sent me. There's a bent-back LIP at the very edge that is baffling
> me! Here are some photos:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/f652_issue.html
>
> It would be no big freakin' deal if the stock was tall enough to just cut
> off the extra, but there is NO extra. The stock is exactly 34" wide and
10
> 5/8" tall (if the bend were straightened), but the lip points AFT. It's
not
> even like it's bent in the same direction as the corrugation. Weird.
>
> Did anybody else have this issue with their F-652? I'm really
> baffled...this is definitely not damage, but I don't see the purpose! I
> assume Van's just shipped out a bogus skin to me, but it's after hours.
I'm
> not about to take my hand seamer to this to try to get it straight...screw
> that! I would love other builder's perspective on this issue...
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (fuselage)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Airfoil Diagram & Van's Fuel Valve |
> >Also, how do ya get the &%@*! handle off of Vans standard fuel valve
> >without destroying it? -yes, I HAVE removed the screw! 8-)
I suppose the best way to get the handle off would be to fly it without
the screw, I'm sure the handle would fall right off when you run a tank
dry :
)
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 237 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
In a message dated 12/14/2002 12:07:21 PM Pacific Standard Time,
elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
> The
> "current" flow that you state going from negative to positive, is ELECTRON
> flow and the conventional way of stating current flow is from positive to
> negative!
A brilliant mind is a terrible thing to waste ;
). Fortunately for me we
have schools that teach Electronics 101, so you may wish to go see:
http://www.electronicstheory.com/html/e101-6.htm
Keep in mind that it is still just theory and your particular religion my
believe the opposite.
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 575hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Protection diodes on starter solenoid |
Todd: you are right! (Sorry, Doug ) I thought that the "S" terminal was
grounded but apparently it is a positive supply from the starter
push-button, in which case the diode with the banded side connected to that
terminal is correct. I am not familiar with the Sky Tech starter as I have
the old Delco unit which requires the three terminal relay, two of which are
heavy duty that connect the battery direct to the starter. Now, the question
I have (to try to solve Doug's problem) is about the "I" terminal that goes
to the small terminal on the Sky Tech starter---It would seem to me that
this supplies power to another solenoid inside the starter which makes the
heavy current connection to the starter motor there---So, is there a
suppression diode inside for THAT solenoid ?? If not that one could cause a
very heavy back-EMF spike that would play "Merry Hell" (as I stated in the
first post on this subject).
So it would appear that we have two solenoids in series, the first, the
Van's unit which I agree the coil is correctly dioded, followed by Sky Tech
which may not be! Anybody know what's in there?
If there is no diode then, another one needs to be connected from the "small
terminal" (cathode) to ground (Anode) preferably right at the terminal to
suppress EMI (electro magnetic interference) that could occur if you put it
at the "I" terminal.
Cheers!!-----------Henry (Pierre to GV?)
PS See my letter to the Editor in the July 2002 issue pg 10 of
Sport Aviation on the subject.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Davis" <rvpilot(at)695online.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate Engines |
Tracy,
Oil is piped from the governor via an external line to a port at the front
of the engine. This port is between the two halves of the front main
bearing. This part of the bearing has a reduced diam. creating a small
chamber there.Holes in the crank and bearing at this point conduct the oil
into the hollow crank, then to the prop. There are 3 seals involved (1) an
O ring seal where the prop mates to the crankshaft flange, this one never
gives any trouble unless damaged during installation. (2 & 3), the front and
rear halves of the front main bearing. Some leakage occurs there back into
the case but the governor has enough capacity to overcome normal clearances.
If the clearances become too large,the prop will not function once the oil
December 08, 2002 - December 14, 2002
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ny