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RV-Archive.digest.vol-ob
December 30, 2002 - July 23, 2003

> > Everything else seems just fine with the plane. Hummed beautifully to > Florida and back yesterday. > > Any tips? Suggestions? Wild ideas to look into? Similar experiences? Source > of foo-foo dust to exorcise this demon?? > > James > N996PJ (45+ hours) > > > "If you don't make dust, you eat dust" > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Re: Multi pin Connecters
Date: Dec 30, 2002
"DigiKey" will have them for sure and they give good service on small orders. They have a catalog and also a web site with an electronic catalog for internet orders. Dick DeCramer RV6 Northfield, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Are you using an electronic ignition in place of one of the mags?? More on the reason later. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > SportAV8R(at)aol.com > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 1:47 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > In a message dated 12/30/2002 11:13:00 AM Eastern Standard Time, > sjhdcl(at)kingston.net writes: > > > > I've seen this 'popping sound before on RV6. Not sure if its > the same thing > > as yours. > > This one was very quiet but still noticeable. Turned out it was > the bottom > > skin > > just aft of bulkhead 607. I'm not sure if that number is > correct but its > > the > > skin just aft of where > > the elevator bell crank and bell crank rib are located. There is no > > stiffeners or ribs on the floor > > > > I've noticed similar and it is accentuated by the fact that the > noise is just > sufficient to break the squelch on my intercom, which allows a > large imrush > of ambient noise through the microphone into the headset, along with the > "pop." Open the squelch (or remove the headset) and the actual > "pops" are > veery low intensity and don't have nearly the ringing quality that the > intercom artifact causes. I've learned to ignore this noise for > over 4 years > now. Usually heard on climb-out at higher power settings. > > Bill B > RV-6A 275 hrs > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request (MORE INFO)
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Thanks, Eustace. I don't think it is the rubber seal. Don't know if it is a sticking valve. More later .... James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Eustace Bowhay > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 4:03 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > (MORE INFO) > > > I would what to make sure you don't have a sticking valve, When a valve > hangs up and the engine fires on a partially open .valve it will > blow into > the induction system if it is an intake or make that popping > noise if it is > a exhaust valve Intake valves rarely give trouble as they are being cooled > by the intake mixture. I would do a differential after landing while it is > still hot just to make sure. This doesn't always pick it up as valve > sticking seems associated with conditions of flight. > > I have had a wing fairing rubber seal come loose in flight, about eight > inches from the flap forward, it beats against the side of > fuselage but this > is a continuous noise and the sound only changes with airspeed. > > Eustace Bowhay > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request (MORE > INFO) > > > > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > > From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> > > To: > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP > request (MORE > > INFO) > > Date: Mon, 30 Dec 2002 09:13:17 -0500 > > > > > > Should have included the following info in original post: > > > > > > Ignition: One mag, one Jeff Rose/ElectroAir > > Engine: <50 hours since overhaul > > > > > > Engine: B2B at 160 HP > > Carb: standard, no modification of jets > > > > James > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > James E. Clark > > > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 1:18 AM > > > To: Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com > > > Subject: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an appeal to the list for help in solving a mystery .... > > > > > > > > > My partner (Patty) and I have an RV6 with a carbureted O-320 > > > (B2B), that has > > > a strange "quirk". > > > > > > >From time to time we hear a "pop"/"pup"/"pup-pup" sound that > > > *sounds* like > > > it could be: > > > > > > a small backfire -or- > > > a single misfire -or- > > > metal oilcanning somewhere -or- > > > something slipping and banging into something under the cowl -or- > > > something somewhere else ??? > > > > > > We have no idea what the real deal is and when we removed the > > > cowl last, we > > > saw nothing askance. > > > When we inspect the airframe we find nothing so far. > > > > > > When it happens we *seem* to continue maintaining full power (it is > over > > > quickly). > > > For a while it *appeared* to happen only during climbout > (interestingly > > > enough only when I was flying at first :-) ) > > > It also seemed to happen once and be over. > > > > > > It has now happened in LEVEL flight > > > It has now happened during "pull-up" from level flight > > > It has now happened with BOTH of us in the plane > > > It has now happened more than once during a flight > > > It has now happened more than once during a climbout > > > > > > Everything else seems just fine with the plane. Hummed beautifully to > > > Florida and back yesterday. > > > > > > Any tips? Suggestions? Wild ideas to look into? Similar > > > experiences? Source > > > of foo-foo dust to exorcise this demon?? > > > > > > James > > > N996PJ (45+ hours) > > > > > > > > > "If you don't make dust, you eat dust" > > > > > > > James: > > > > I have an O-320 B2B 1961 vintage Narrow Deck installed in my > airplane. It > > was rebuilt to new specs before going into the RV. It has over 4,500 TT > > since new. I converted it to Constant Speed prop at rebuild. > > > > The only time I get popping sound is when the throttle is moved > to idle at > > speed. This would be backfiring. > > > > I have the origional M-S carb. Think it is a MA3SPA or MA4SPA. No > > rejetting on it. I was not able to get the idle mixture set > properly till > > around 40 hours when the engine was broke in. > > > > Not sure what the sound is that you are hearing with power. The only > thing > > that I have heard with power on would be the rubber molding at the > fuselage. > > It needs to be glued on or have an EXTREMELY tight fit to keep it from > > slapping the airplane. > > > > > > Gary A. Sobek > > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > > 1,225 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > > > > > http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_a ddphotos_3 mf > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request
Date: Dec 31, 2002
We seemed to have the "oil can" sound and Patty deduced that that was from the wing root intersection fairing being overly snug with the rubber gasket. She applied some type of lubricant to the rubber so it could slip it it was really pressed and that seemed to have gone away. This sound is yet a different one. Thanks though. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ross > Schlotthauer > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 2:55 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > > I heard a similar noise when I took to $60,000 ride at > vans in their blue RV-6A. I heard it several times > during the flight and it was quite noticible. It > startled me but I was didn't ask what it was. You > might call Vans and ask if they know what causes that > "oil can" sound. > > Ross Schlotthauer > RV7 Fuse > > > --- "James E. Clark" wrote: > > > > > > This is an appeal to the list for help in solving a > > mystery .... > > > > > > My partner (Patty) and I have an RV6 with a > > carbureted O-320 (B2B), that has > > a strange "quirk". > > > > From time to time we hear a "pop"/"pup"/"pup-pup" > > sound that *sounds* like > > it could be: > > > > a small backfire -or- > > a single misfire -or- > > metal oilcanning somewhere -or- > > something slipping and banging into something under > > the cowl -or- > > something somewhere else ??? > > > > We have no idea what the real deal is and when we > > removed the cowl last, we > > saw nothing askance. > > When we inspect the airframe we find nothing so far. > > > > When it happens we *seem* to continue maintaining > > full power (it is over > > quickly). > > For a while it *appeared* to happen only during > > climbout (interestingly > > enough only when I was flying at first :-) ) > > It also seemed to happen once and be over. > > > > It has now happened in LEVEL flight > > It has now happened during "pull-up" from level > > flight > > It has now happened with BOTH of us in the plane > > It has now happened more than once during a flight > > It has now happened more than once during a climbout > > > > Everything else seems just fine with the plane. > > Hummed beautifully to > > Florida and back yesterday. > > > > Any tips? Suggestions? Wild ideas to look into? > > Similar experiences? Source > > of foo-foo dust to exorcise this demon?? > > > > James > > N996PJ (45+ hours) > > > > > > "If you don't make dust, you eat dust" > > > > > > > > Click on the > > this > > generous > > _-> > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request
Date: Dec 31, 2002
More comments coming soon. Don't know if we have the cure yet though. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve J Hurlbut > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 2:38 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > We also placed rigid foam on the sides of the fuse around that area. > The RV was almost 'ring' free. > > Good luck and let us know the problem and cure of its found. It will be a > good one for the archives. > > > Steve > RV7A wiring > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > > > Hmmm. > > > > Must take a look at that. > > > > Thanks, > > > > James > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve > J Hurlbut > > > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 11:07 AM > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > > > > > > > > > I've seen this 'popping sound before on RV6. Not sure if its the > > > same thing > > > as yours. > > > This one was very quiet but still noticeable. Turned out it was the > bottom > > > skin > > > just aft of bulkhead 607. I'm not sure if that number is correct > > > but its the > > > skin just aft of where > > > the elevator bell crank and bell crank rib are located. There is no > > > stiffeners or ribs on the floor > > > in that area. Problem was solved by gluing some rigid foam lengthwise. > You > > > could also install a > > > couple stiffeners. Maybe try laying under the plane and pushing up on > the > > > skin. > > > > > > Steve > > > RV7A > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com> > > > To: > > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > We think we had that too and Patty "lubricated" the rubber > > > gasket and that > > > > *different* noise seems to have gone away. It was more of a metal > bang. > > > > Seemed to ONLY occur during takeoff, presumbably as the wing > > > was unloaded > > > > from the flex of liftoff. It seems that if you make that fairing and > > > gasket > > > > fit REALLY snug on the ground, you will have the possibility of that > > > > happening. > > > > > > > > Keep those off-chance guesses coming!! > > > > > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex > Peterson > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 8:58 AM > > > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > > > Subject: RE: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... > HELP request > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just a real off-chance guess: I heard someone else describe > something > > > > > similar when their wing root fairing gasket was loose at the > > > aft end and > > > > > banging the fuselage.... > > > > > > > > > > Alex Peterson > > > > > Maple Grove, MN > > > > > RV6-A N66AP 247 hours > > > > > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > > > > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > > > > > > James E. Clark > > > > > > Sent: Monday, December 30, 2002 12:18 AM > > > > > > To: Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com > > > > > > Subject: RV-List: Random (engine??) "POP" noise ... HELP request > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is an appeal to the list for help in solving a mystery .... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > My partner (Patty) and I have an RV6 with a carbureted O-320 > > > > > > (B2B), that has a strange "quirk". > > > > > > > > > > > > From time to time we hear a "pop"/"pup"/"pup-pup" sound that > > > > > > *sounds* like it could be: > > > > > > > > > > > > a small backfire -or- > > > > > > a single misfire -or- > > > > > > metal oilcanning somewhere -or- > > > > > > something slipping and banging into something under the cowl > > > > > > -or- something somewhere else ??? > > > > > > > > > > > > We have no idea what the real deal is and when we removed the > > > > > > cowl last, we saw nothing askance. When we inspect the > > > > > > airframe we find nothing so far. > > > > > > > > > > > > When it happens we *seem* to continue maintaining full power > > > > > > (it is over quickly). For a while it *appeared* to happen > > > > > > only during climbout (interestingly enough only when I was > > > > > > flying at first :-) ) It also seemed to happen once > and be over. > > > > > > > > > > > > It has now happened in LEVEL flight > > > > > > It has now happened during "pull-up" from level flight > > > > > > It has now happened with BOTH of us in the plane > > > > > > It has now happened more than once during a flight > > > > > > It has now happened more than once during a climbout > > > > > > > > > > > > Everything else seems just fine with the plane. Hummed > > > > > > beautifully to Florida and back yesterday. > > > > > > > > > > > > Any tips? Suggestions? Wild ideas to look into? Similar > > > > > > experiences? Source of foo-foo dust to exorcise this demon?? > > > > > > > > > > > > James > > > > > > N996PJ (45+ hours) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > "If you don't make dust, you eat dust" > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ========== > > > > > > ========= > > > > > > Matronics Forums. > > > > > > ========= > > > > > > List members. > > > > > > ========= > > > > > > ========= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: UPDATE ... Random (engine??) "POP"
Date: Dec 31, 2002
First, thanks to the many listers who have responded both "on-list" and "off-list". There have been several things suggested as the potential culprit so I think I should give a status on many of them. 1. Rubber seal at wing root (either causing oil canning or flapping in the breeze)... We have had that problem already (oil canning) and think it has been solved. For those unaware, it seems if you make the fairing and rubber gasket fit VERY snug against the fuselage, you can induce oilcanning when the wing loads (bends) up on takeoff and unloads (bends) down when you ease off the back pressure. You can either trim the fairing some more or make it so the rubber will give a little ... we did the latter and it seems to work. Our sound in question is a *different* one now. 2. Sticky valve ... Don't know about that one. It is not the leading candidate yet. 3. Leaky induction ... Same as #2 above. Visually, did not find anything amiss. We did find a little "blow-by" on one exhaust ... bolts needed re-tightening. 4. Bottom skin, aft bulkhead ... Same as #2 above 5. Exhaust stack hitting fuselage ... We looked into that and all is snug. No signs of it hitting the fuselage. Also the sound is more of a "pop" than a vibration. 6. Electronic ignition "misfire" ... --->> CURRENT NUMBER ONE CANDIDATE! I had a talk with Jeff Rose, and with great precision and logic, he proceeded to explain what ***COULD*** be happening. Jeff thinks (with "80% certainty") that what we have here is arcing in one of the spark plug wires driven by the electronic ignition. He explained that it is possible that one of the connections is just loose enough to cause this when the engine is UNDER LOAD (climb out, pull up etc.) and the pressure inside the cylinder/chamber is high enough to cause INCREASED RESISTANCE across the plug. With a "loose" connection, there would be an arc as opposed to a clean firing (path of least resistance) and the missing of ONE firing would make a sound that would be enough to scare you. He suggested removing the wires and inspecting inside the plugs looking for the tell-tale sign of a black spot (carbon from the arcing). I did and 'lo and behold there was some in the plug where the wire had come loose before and I had replaced it!! I also found some (a lot less) in another cyclinder. In **THEORY** maybe this could even explain why there were multiple, I guess. The wire was cut and the spring at the end re-inserted per Jeff's instructions. The engine was started to make sure I did not make matters worse. Other than that, we have **NOT** tested this yet and the problem did NOT manifest itself on the ground (per Jeff, the engine does not have enough load to drive the pressure high enough to cause the arcing in that situation.) It was late when we got most of it done and I *hope* the weather is good enough to do a flight test tommorrow. PLEASE NOTE: This may turn out to NOT be the problem. It is number one on the list for me (actually it was 2nd in the things I originally listed -) )because Jeff seemed to be so informed about exactly why and how this **COULD** be the problem. He was so thorough in explaining all of the "why's" and "how come's" that we are focussing on this first. **IF** this is the problem, please note that it is NOT a problem of the electronic ignition itself, but of the connector at the end of the plug wire and its construction. Even if it is not, I would love to kow if anyone with the ElectroAir system has any tips on making those ends a little more substantial (this is with aircraft plugs, NOT automotive plugs). Once this is tested, I will let the list know what happened and if needed, proceed down the list of other possibilities. Keep those ideas coming .... just in case. :-) Again, thanks to all!! James "If you don't make dust, you eat dust" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Multi-pin wire connectors
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Hi Steve, One of the best all around types of connectors are Cannon Plugs. They can be bought in ANY size from 3 pins up to 100+ in one connector ranging from 1/2" diameter to 4+" in diameter. They come in may shapes, sizes, materials, and types. Simple twist, plastic, metal, thermocouple, etc... You can find them supporting wire guages/pin sizes from 2-30AWG wire,etc.. They've been Aerospace industry standard for years. I have my almost everything in my plane wired with some sort of connectors (Cannon, Molex, D-Sub), in fact nearly my whole panel can be pulled out by disconnecting 3 cannon plugs! The fact that I'm a lazy A&P that doesn't like difficult maintenance, I tried to build my plane with maintenance/upgrades in mind. The Cannon plugs I used are the newer hard black plastic and take only about a half twist to disconnect. For all the wires through the firewall, I used a 48pin Mil-Spec sealed metal cannon plug that can be disconnected on both sides of the firewall. Makes for an easy and clean firewall penetration. FYI, the really good pins are gold plated and are NOT cheap, but they work on the space shuttle and Boeings, so.... Digi-Key stocks hundreds of variable kinds, pins, tools, etc.. and just about every other kind of connector you could ever think of including molex, D-subs, etc.. as does allied electronics and several other big distribution houses. Hope this help, Stein Bruch RV6, Minneapolis. The search continues. I looked at the Newark Electronics website and every electronics catalog I have along with RC catalogs but can't seem to find a good wire connector. I would like to have a quick disconnect for each wing to fuselage wire assembly as well and for the control columns. I initially wanted to use 9 pin connectors but can only seem to find the males ones. Can someone give me a place and part number for a good quick disconnect for these wires? Thank you Steve RV7A wiring, wiring, more wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Oil on airplane belly
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Listers: I now have about 40 hours since a major overhaul of my Lyc O-320. I have been consistently getting some oil on the belly just aft of / in line with the engine breather line. This has been happening even while doing nothing but straight-and-level cross country type flying. It's doesn't seem to be a lot, but just enough to make a 6-inch diameter splotch and a few run-back lines for a foot or so. The flight-times have all been in the 1 to 2 hour range. Perhaps it could be due to over-servicing the oil quantity, but I am getting this oil mess even when the quantity is showing 6 quarts. I did an oil change yesterday and saw no oil leaks anywhere at all on the engine or accessories. I've been told that a new/freshly overhauled engine should not be blowing any oil if it is broken-in and serviced correctly, so I'm beginning to wonder if I have a cylinder problem or something. I've also heard that a glazed cylinder will cause the crankcase to pressurize excessively and oil to blow out. What's puzzling is that I followed the break-in instructions exactly. I did not "baby" the engine, and all the operating temps, etc. have been good. I've been running the engine at 65% to 75% power on the x/c flights, varying between the two at 10 to 15 minute intervals. Any insight here will be most appreciated. Thanks, Randy Compton RV-3 N84VF Gulf Breeze, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Subject: Paint Shops on East Coast
List: I had my paint shop all lined up for the end of January and yesterday they called me with a $2000 price increase. I politely declined !!! (well, maybe not so politely !!) Anyone have good recommendations for shops on the east coast that are also reasonable. I have had quotes of $7000-9000. I just don't believe it has to be that expensive for a simple paint scheme. Thanks !! Len Leggette RV-8A N901LL Greensboro, N.C. 44 hours !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Oil on airplane belly
Date: Dec 31, 2002
I assume you are running mineral oil for the break-in. There was a recent article in AOPA Pilot about breaking in a fresh overhaul, and they recommended a multi-weight mineral oil for this period. I think it was Phillips, but I'm not sure. Steve Johnson RV-8 fuse ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Oil on airplane belly > > Listers: > > I now have about 40 hours since a major overhaul of my Lyc O-320. I have > been consistently getting some oil on the belly just aft of / in line with > the engine breather line. This has been happening even while doing nothing > but straight-and-level cross country type flying. It's doesn't seem to be a > lot, but just enough to make a 6-inch diameter splotch and a few run-back > lines for a foot or so. The flight-times have all been in the 1 to 2 hour > range. > > Perhaps it could be due to over-servicing the oil quantity, but I am getting > this oil mess even when the quantity is showing 6 quarts. I did an oil > change yesterday and saw no oil leaks anywhere at all on the engine or > accessories. I've been told that a new/freshly overhauled engine should not > be blowing any oil if it is broken-in and serviced correctly, so I'm > beginning to wonder if I have a cylinder problem or something. I've also > heard that a glazed cylinder will cause the crankcase to pressurize > excessively and oil to blow out. > > What's puzzling is that I followed the break-in instructions exactly. I did > not "baby" the engine, and all the operating temps, etc. have been good. > I've been running the engine at 65% to 75% power on the x/c flights, varying > between the two at 10 to 15 minute intervals. > > Any insight here will be most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Randy Compton > RV-3 N84VF > Gulf Breeze, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Shops on East Coast
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Earlier this year I had got a few quotes in the $5,000-$6,000 and that was stripping off Imeron first. That was in the Michigan and Ohio area. The best deals were in Canada. There is one near Saut Ste Marie (KANJ) and Echo Bay in Canada that has done Oshkosh award winners that was in the $6,000 range. Dave RV-6 The need for speed--> > > List: > > I had my paint shop all lined up for the end of January and yesterday they > called me with a $2000 price increase. I politely declined !!! (well, maybe > not so politely !!) > > Anyone have good recommendations for shops on the east coast that are also > reasonable. I have had quotes of $7000-9000. I just don't believe it has to > be that expensive for a simple paint scheme. Thanks !! > > Len Leggette RV-8A > N901LL > Greensboro, N.C. > 44 hours !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Oil on airplane belly
Date: Dec 31, 2002
As per the recommendation of ECI, I am using Phillips X/C 20W50 for the break-in. ECI says that this oil is good from break-in to TBO, and if you ever need cylinder work in the future you will not need to revert to mineral oil while the new cylinder breaks-in. For what its worth, my oil consumption at this point looks to be about 1 quart per every 5 to 6 hours. Thanks, RC ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on airplane belly > > I assume you are running mineral oil for the break-in. There was a recent > article in AOPA Pilot about breaking in a fresh overhaul, and they > recommended a multi-weight mineral oil for this period. I think it was > Phillips, but I'm not sure. > > Steve Johnson > RV-8 fuse > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Oil on airplane belly > > > > > > Listers: > > > > I now have about 40 hours since a major overhaul of my Lyc O-320. I have > > been consistently getting some oil on the belly just aft of / in line with > > the engine breather line. This has been happening even while doing > nothing > > but straight-and-level cross country type flying. It's doesn't seem to be > a > > lot, but just enough to make a 6-inch diameter splotch and a few run-back > > lines for a foot or so. The flight-times have all been in the 1 to 2 hour > > range. > > > > Perhaps it could be due to over-servicing the oil quantity, but I am > getting > > this oil mess even when the quantity is showing 6 quarts. I did an oil > > change yesterday and saw no oil leaks anywhere at all on the engine or > > accessories. I've been told that a new/freshly overhauled engine should > not > > be blowing any oil if it is broken-in and serviced correctly, so I'm > > beginning to wonder if I have a cylinder problem or something. I've also > > heard that a glazed cylinder will cause the crankcase to pressurize > > excessively and oil to blow out. > > > > What's puzzling is that I followed the break-in instructions exactly. I > did > > not "baby" the engine, and all the operating temps, etc. have been good. > > I've been running the engine at 65% to 75% power on the x/c flights, > varying > > between the two at 10 to 15 minute intervals. > > > > Any insight here will be most appreciated. > > > > Thanks, > > Randy Compton > > RV-3 N84VF > > Gulf Breeze, FL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2002
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Oil on airplane belly
My O-320-E2G (150 hp) at 315 hrs uses a quart in 22-25 hours. It's been that way since I got it with 110 hrs. Best oil consumption of any airplane I've ever owned (also the first Lycoming). MGM > >As per the recommendation of ECI, I am using Phillips X/C 20W50 for the >break-in. ECI says that this oil is good from break-in to TBO, and if you >ever need cylinder work in the future you will not need to revert to mineral >oil while the new cylinder breaks-in. > >For what its worth, my oil consumption at this point looks to be about 1 >quart per every 5 to 6 hours. > >Thanks, >RC > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Stephen Johnson" <spjohnsn(at)ix.netcom.com> >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil on airplane belly > > > > > > I assume you are running mineral oil for the break-in. There was a recent > > article in AOPA Pilot about breaking in a fresh overhaul, and they > > recommended a multi-weight mineral oil for this period. I think it was > > Phillips, but I'm not sure. > > > > Steve Johnson > > RV-8 fuse > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Oil on airplane belly > > > > > > > > > > Listers: > > > > > > I now have about 40 hours since a major overhaul of my Lyc O-320. I >have > > > been consistently getting some oil on the belly just aft of / in line >with > > > the engine breather line. This has been happening even while doing > > nothing > > > but straight-and-level cross country type flying. It's doesn't seem to >be > > a > > > lot, but just enough to make a 6-inch diameter splotch and a few >run-back > > > lines for a foot or so. The flight-times have all been in the 1 to 2 >hour > > > range. > > > > > > Perhaps it could be due to over-servicing the oil quantity, but I am > > getting > > > this oil mess even when the quantity is showing 6 quarts. I did an oil > > > change yesterday and saw no oil leaks anywhere at all on the engine or > > > accessories. I've been told that a new/freshly overhauled engine should > > not > > > be blowing any oil if it is broken-in and serviced correctly, so I'm > > > beginning to wonder if I have a cylinder problem or something. I've >also > > > heard that a glazed cylinder will cause the crankcase to pressurize > > > excessively and oil to blow out. > > > > > > What's puzzling is that I followed the break-in instructions exactly. I > > did > > > not "baby" the engine, and all the operating temps, etc. have been good. > > > I've been running the engine at 65% to 75% power on the x/c flights, > > varying > > > between the two at 10 to 15 minute intervals. > > > > > > Any insight here will be most appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Randy Compton > > > RV-3 N84VF > > > Gulf Breeze, FL Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dane Sheahen" <dane(at)mutualace.com>
Subject: Paint Shops on East Coast
Date: Dec 31, 2002
I am in the just about ready to paint my RV8a and I have a quote of $4700. The plane is still naked (the skin has no paint, no polish, no wax) and I must take off all control surfaces and reinstall when completed. The paint shop is well known in the Midwest, does a lot of warbirds and is not to far from OSH. The only thing I don't like is they only use Emron which has a lack of colors. ( The shop is in Watertown Wi. KRYV ) Dane Sheahen RV8a N838RV (flying naked with no pants ) I had my paint shop all lined up for the end of January and yesterday they called me with a $2000 price increase. I politely declined !!! (well, maybe not so politely !!) Anyone have good recommendations for shops on the east coast that are also reasonable. I have had quotes of $7000-9000. I just don't believe it has to be that expensive for a simple paint scheme. Thanks !! Len Leggette RV-8A N901LL Greensboro, N.C. 44 hours !! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Oil on airplane belly
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Hi Randy, I'm surprised at your oil consumption! I have 40 hours on mine also and I've been using Phillips type "M" 20W50 up to now. I did my first oil change at 25 hours and I was down a 1/2 a quart at that time. It looks I am down about ~1/3 quart now. My engine was a first time majored 0-320 E2D which was upgraded to 160 HP by raising the compression to 8.5 by the overhauler. They did a 2.3 hour run-in before they shipped it to me, that was part of the "Performance Plus" package I purchased which included balancing rotating parts, fuel flow porting, etc. The dipstick is marked up to 6 quarts. The flying school mechs at my airport, told me that if you fill it up to the dipstick mark it will blow oil. The school has a fleet of Cessnas and Piper twins and they keep the oil level in all of them between 4 and 5 quarts. That's what I did and my oil temperatures have not been above 195 degrees. Wiped a small amount of oil on the belly at oil change time. At their recommendation, I did not do any taxi tests to keep low engine RPM to minimum. The only taxiing I did before 1st flight was from my hangar to the fuel pumps and that was done at 1800 RPM to condition the brakes --Dunno! maybe I'm lucky!? Cheers!!-----Happy New Year-----Henry Hore, C-GELS at Cornwall Regional, CYCC. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Paint Shops on East Coast
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Call charlie Bell of Aircraft Refinishers of Western New York. 585-237-3790 I have seen a Beech he did that looked great. Tell him that the guy that does the paint seminar at the RV forum in upstate NY sent you. Reguards Craig Warner RV6A still workin ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lenleg(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Paint Shops on East Coast > > List: > > I had my paint shop all lined up for the end of January and yesterday they > called me with a $2000 price increase. I politely declined !!! (well, maybe > not so politely !!) > > Anyone have good recommendations for shops on the east coast that are also > reasonable. I have had quotes of $7000-9000. I just don't believe it has to > be that expensive for a simple paint scheme. Thanks !! > > Len Leggette RV-8A > N901LL > Greensboro, N.C. > 44 hours !! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Paint Shops on East Coast
Date: Dec 31, 2002
That is the shop that the EAA uses also. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dane Sheahen" <dane(at)mutualace.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Paint Shops on East Coast > > > I am in the just about ready to paint my RV8a and I have a quote of $4700. > The plane is still naked (the skin has no paint, no polish, no wax) and I > must take off all control surfaces and reinstall when completed. The paint > shop is well known in the Midwest, does a lot of warbirds and is not to far > from OSH. The only thing I don't like is they only use Emron which has a > lack of colors. ( The shop is in Watertown Wi. KRYV ) > > Dane Sheahen > RV8a N838RV (flying naked with no pants ) > > I had my paint shop all lined up for the end of January and yesterday they > called me with a $2000 price increase. I politely declined !!! (well, maybe > not so politely !!) > > Anyone have good recommendations for shops on the east coast that are also > reasonable. I have had quotes of $7000-9000. I just don't believe it has > to > be that expensive for a simple paint scheme. Thanks !! > > Len Leggette RV-8A > N901LL > Greensboro, N.C. > 44 hours !! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jimnolan(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Poping noise
Date: Dec 31, 2002
When I first built my RV4, I had a noise similar to what you're talking about. It was the .016 firewall flexing, it was irritating to say the least. I found a fix for it though. I taxied through a field at RCR going to Karen's Restraint and ran my right wheel into a gopher hole. It spun the airplane around, cracked my wheel pant and put a crease in the .016 firewall. Didn't have the popping sound anymore though. There's got to be a better fix than mine. Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Subject: how to remove pop rivet?
From: Jerry Howell <jehowell(at)tampabay.rr.com>
greetings all, I have managed to incorrectly set a pop rivet! I failed to check to see if both the skin and spar that I was riveting were actually attached, and as a result, I riveted only the skin. Now there is a layer of skin/rivet head/spar - and i will have to remove a LOT of other rivets to get easy access to it. It seems very hard to drill. Anyone have any ideas? Jerry Howell jehowell(at)tampabay.rr.com RV-7A Empennage - almost finished ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2002
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: how to remove pop rivet?
Jerry I've had good luck by knocking out the center out of the rivet and the drilling the head off. you don't have to wack hard but be persistent and the tail will eventually out of the rivet. Gert Jerry Howell wrote: > > greetings all, > > I have managed to incorrectly set a pop rivet! I failed to check to > see if both the skin and spar that I was riveting were actually > attached, and as a result, I riveted only the skin. Now there is a > layer of skin/rivet head/spar - and i will have to remove a LOT of > other rivets to get easy access to it. It seems very hard to drill. > Anyone have any ideas? > > > Jerry Howell > jehowell(at)tampabay.rr.com > RV-7A > Empennage - almost finished > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 31, 2002
From: Lonnie Woodman <fxdlrider(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: how to remove pop rivet?
Drilling is the preferred method, but if you have to, use a dremmel. Get the smallest round tip, and try to take off all the head of the rivet. Push it on through. Howell greetings all, I have managed to incorrectly set a pop rivet! I failed to check to see if both the skin and spar that I was riveting were actually attached, and as a result, I riveted only the skin. Now there is a layer of skin/rivet head/spar - and i will have to remove a LOT of other rivets to get easy access to it. It seems very hard to drill. Anyone have any ideas? Jerry Howell jehowell(at)tampabay.rr.com RV-7A Empennage - almost finished --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: Oil on airplane belly
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Listers: I now have about 40 hours since a major overhaul of my Lyc O-320. I have been consistently getting some oil on the belly just aft of / in line with the engine breather line. This has been happening even while doing nothing but straight-and-level cross country type flying. It's doesn't seem to be a lot, but just enough to make a 6-inch diameter splotch and a few run-back lines for a foot or so. The flight-times have all been in the 1 to 2 hour range. ------snip ------------ Any insight here will be most appreciated. Thanks, Randy Compton Hi Randy My 0-320 uses a quart in 30 hrs and I still get a bit on the belly, more like thin dirt than a puddle, the breather drips on the exhaust pipe a bit on shutdown. You didn't tell us how much oil you used in the first 40 hrs. There will always be some vapors out the breather that will condense and come out as liquid, and it just takes a few drops if it exits into turbulent air to make a mess. Make sure you have a small "whistle hole" or whatever its called a few inches up from the bottom of the breather, its intended to relieve pressure if the exit freezes over but may also relieve any suction at the outlet. Try repositioning the breather, there may be a vacuum at the breather exit. George McNutt, Langley B.C. 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WILLMINCEY(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 31, 2002
Subject: Re: Paint Shops on East Coast
You might like to checkout Blue Sky Aviation, Loris SC. (Near Myrtle Beach) He is currently painting an RV-8. They got the contract last year for 6-7 Civil Air Patrol and did a super job on all of them. Much better than the five other paint shops that previously flunked. All looked good initially but after a few flights, paint was peeling from all except the Loris contractor. You will have to fit into their schedule but the wait would be worth it. Head honcho is Brian and a real nitpicker, thats good. Will Mincey RV-3 81TD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Oil on airplane belly
Date: Jan 01, 2003
Randy, I am by no means an expert on this subject but, I own a 150 that is suppose to hold 6 quarts also but will blow out about 1 1/2 quarts after every oil change. So I just put in 5 quarts and let it settle down to about 4 1/2 and leave it there. It never goes below that. Saves a big mess on my cowling. You may want to try running a bit low to see if it stops at a reasonable level. Wayne RV-8 qb ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Compton" <rdcompton(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Oil on airplane belly > > Listers: > > I now have about 40 hours since a major overhaul of my Lyc O-320. I have > been consistently getting some oil on the belly just aft of / in line with > the engine breather line. This has been happening even while doing nothing > but straight-and-level cross country type flying. It's doesn't seem to be a > lot, but just enough to make a 6-inch diameter splotch and a few run-back > lines for a foot or so. The flight-times have all been in the 1 to 2 hour > range. > > Perhaps it could be due to over-servicing the oil quantity, but I am getting > this oil mess even when the quantity is showing 6 quarts. I did an oil > change yesterday and saw no oil leaks anywhere at all on the engine or > accessories. I've been told that a new/freshly overhauled engine should not > be blowing any oil if it is broken-in and serviced correctly, so I'm > beginning to wonder if I have a cylinder problem or something. I've also > heard that a glazed cylinder will cause the crankcase to pressurize > excessively and oil to blow out. > > What's puzzling is that I followed the break-in instructions exactly. I did > not "baby" the engine, and all the operating temps, etc. have been good. > I've been running the engine at 65% to 75% power on the x/c flights, varying > between the two at 10 to 15 minute intervals. > > Any insight here will be most appreciated. > > Thanks, > Randy Compton > RV-3 N84VF > Gulf Breeze, FL > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Paint Shops on East Coast
Date: Jan 01, 2003
Charles Bell of Aircraft refinishers of wny just finished my second RV-6 last month. He's a great guy to deal with and is very experimental friendly. As part of our deal he assigned me some hangar space to final assemble and get the faa inspection. I test flew it right from his airport. His web site is http://www.aircraftrefinisherswny.com (585) 237-3790 Steve DiNieri capsteve(at)adelphia.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Painting
Date: Jan 01, 2003
Painted the first RV (6 completed 1992) at home in a double garage, turned out remarkably well considering the conditions. Last year it was time to think about painting the 6A that is just being completed. My two main concerns were the toxicity of two part epoxy paints and dust control so decided to take a different route. Talked to and established a plan with one of our local well equipped body shops that have a first class paint booth. We would supply the paint (Endura the same as on the RV 6 which still looks the same as it did ten years ago) and do the prepping. The painting would be done in three stages, emp, wings and fuselage. After the parts are prepped they go to the paint shop and then to the hangar for final assembly, emp and wings are finished and in the hangar and the fuselage will go around the end of March, when the weather warms up. The paint and primer cost was $420.00 Canadian (approx. $275.00 US) and it looks like we have enough left to finish up. Plan is to go with one basic color and use vinyl for trim and registration letters. Based on the hourly charges so far from the body shop it looks like the final cost for painting will be in the area of $1800.00 CD including the paint. The finish is just excellent and so far looks like it was the right way to go. Eustace Bowhay- Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: more baffling questions
Date: Jan 01, 2003
Still working on cowling and baffles, currently have ramps bonded to cowl, have fit outside fabric to baffles for good seal to cowl . Now to the center area around front of engine. Should the ramp inside ends be glassed over to get a good seal transitioning from baffle to ramp to cowl? Dave Ford RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: more baffling questions
Date: Jan 01, 2003
Yep, that's the only solution I could come up with, but there may be others. Glass away! KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> Subject: RV-List: more baffling questions > > Still working on cowling and baffles, currently have ramps bonded to cowl, have fit outside fabric to baffles for good seal to cowl . Now to the center area around front of engine. Should the ramp inside ends be glassed over to get a good seal transitioning from baffle to ramp to cowl? > > Dave Ford > RV6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: more baffling questions
I can't picture what you are doing here, where are you glassing? Doug Gray > > Yep, that's the only solution I could come up with, but there may be others. > > Glass away! > > KB > ----- Original Message ----- > >> >>Still working on cowling and baffles, currently have ramps bonded to cowl, > > have fit outside fabric to baffles for good seal to cowl . Now to the > center area around front of engine. Should the ramp inside ends be glassed > over to get a good seal transitioning from baffle to ramp to cowl? > >>Dave Ford >>RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 01, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: IO-360-A power spreadsheet
I was away from home over the Christmas period, and I couldn't work on the project, so I found some time to produce a spreadsheet to calculate the power output of the Lycoming IO-360-A and C engines. The Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the front page of the site for the next while. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: more baffling questions
Date: Jan 01, 2003
> > cowl, > have fit outside fabric to baffles for good seal to cowl . > Now to the center area around front of engine. Should the > ramp inside ends be glassed over to get a good seal > transitioning from baffle to ramp to cowl? I'm not sure the exact area you are writing about, however, the lower outside corners of the inlet ramp sections I radiused with aluminum. These little pieces of .016" aluminum are roughly cone shaped, and blend the baffles right into the cowl lower outside corners. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 247 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: more baffling questions
Date: Jan 01, 2003
The inlet ramps are relatively small fiberglass parts that attach to the inside of the upper cowl, and provide a smooth transition for air as it enters the cowl. As supplied, these ramps attach to the lip of the inlet, and to the top of the cowling. The ramps have no sides, so there is a tunnel running under each (Left & Right) inlet ramp. Imagine the inexpensive steel ramps you can buy at the local auto parts store. The ones I've seen don't have solid sides, so there is a tunnel of sorts under them. You could roll a tennis ball or whatever through the void. This is OK for the auto ramp, but on our inlet ramps, one side of each ramp is in the high pressure area of the cowl, and the other side is on the low pressure side of the cowl. Unless you seal the tunnel, you're going to lose cooling air without any benefit. At this point, you have two options - 1) Glass in one end of each ramp, or 2) Make the baffles themselves seal the area, despite some obvious fit issues. If you glass in the inside ends of the ramps, it gives you a smooth (rather than jagged) transition in the area where your baffles shift from sealing against the inlet ramp to sealing against the top cowl. This is very helpful in getting a good seal. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Gray" <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV-List: more baffling questions > > I can't picture what you are doing here, where are you glassing? > Doug Gray > > > > > Yep, that's the only solution I could come up with, but there may be others. > > > > Glass away! > > > > KB > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > >> > >>Still working on cowling and baffles, currently have ramps bonded to cowl, > > > > have fit outside fabric to baffles for good seal to cowl . Now to the > > center area around front of engine. Should the ramp inside ends be glassed > > over to get a good seal transitioning from baffle to ramp to cowl? > > > >>Dave Ford > >>RV6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Canopy skirt
Date: Jan 01, 2003
I'm just starting to fit the RV-8 canopy skirt and I'm stuck on the step where it says to trim the skirt 1/4" away from the "scribed line". Look as I may, there is no trace of a scribed line, mold line, or anything resembling either. Can any of you RV-8 builders give me an idea of where the top & bottom of the skirt ends up relative to canopy frame (top) and junction of top & side Fuselage skins (bottom)? Also, everything seems to fit fairly well except for the rear 1/3 of the skirt at the top edge. It stands out away from the canopy bubble by at least 1/3", way more than will ever lay down when pop riveted to the canopy frame. Looks like I'll have to trim most of the top edge above the rivet line away and lay up some glass to fair it into the canopy bubble. Common story? Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: UPDATE #2 ... Random (engine??) "POP"
Date: Jan 02, 2003
First, I must mention that Jeff Rose was such a delight to chat with on the phone about this matter. He is sending to me some of the "improved" rubber grommets for the plug wires. (ElectroAir users will know what this is). Second, I got a chance to go around the pattern once after the "update". I climbed agressively (~80kts at most) and did NOT get a "pop". More flying is required before we feel that the problem is "solved". Once around the pattern is NOT conclusive in proving "solution" but is potentially conclusive in proving "NOT solution". We have a trip planned this weekend that should be enough to discover if the problem persists. Again THANKS(!!!) to all who sent in suggestions. I still may need to followup on each. James > <<<< SNIP, SNIP, SNIP >>>> > Other than that, we have **NOT** tested this yet and the problem > did NOT manifest itself on the ground (per Jeff, the engine does > not have enough load to drive the pressure high enough to cause > the arcing in that situation.) > > It was late when we got most of it done and I *hope* the weather > is good enough to do a flight test tommorrow. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Firewall penetration of Prop control cable
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Happy New Year, Does anyone have a coordinate position for the hole in the firewall that the C/S prop govenor control cable will pass through? For instance: X number of inches up from the fuselage bottom flange. Y number of inches in from the left side skin flange. For some reason I just can't picture it's position I'm Building a 6a with an O-360-A1A. The cable I have is the 45.5" one from Van's. Thanks in advance, Jim in Kelowna ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <skybolt-aviator(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: UPDATE #2 ... Random (engine??) "POP"
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Hi James--------I'm just curious as to why you are using aircraft plugs instead of supplied auto plugs? Ollie 6A (Jeff's on rt.) ----- Original Message ----- From: James E. Clark Subject: RV-List: UPDATE #2 ... Random (engine??) "POP" First, I must mention that Jeff Rose was such a delight to chat with on the phone about this matter. He is sending to me some of the "improved" rubber grommets for the plug wires. (ElectroAir users will know what this is). Again THANKS(!!!) to all who sent in suggestions. I still may need to followup on each. James > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
Subject: Todds Canopies
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Does anybody have an email address for Todd Silver at Todds Canopies? Thanks Al Grajek algrajek(at)msn.com The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: Larry Bowen <lcbowen(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Canopy skirt
The line is there, but cloaked. You have to hold it just right under a bright light, tilt your head, stick your tongue out, etc. I marked mine with a Sharpie as I found it, then connected the dots. LB 2003 - The year of flight. --- Tracy Crook wrote: > > I'm just starting to fit the RV-8 canopy skirt and I'm stuck on the step > where it says to trim the skirt 1/4" away from the "scribed line". Look as > I may, there is no trace of a scribed line, mold line, or anything > resembling either. > > Can any of you RV-8 builders give me an idea of where the top & bottom of > the skirt ends up relative to canopy frame (top) and junction of top & side > Fuselage skins (bottom)? > > Also, everything seems to fit fairly well except for the rear 1/3 of the > skirt at the top edge. It stands out away from the canopy bubble by at > least 1/3", way more than will ever lay down when pop riveted to the canopy > frame. Looks like I'll have to trim most of the top edge above the rivet > line away and lay up some glass to fair it into the canopy bubble. Common > story? > > Tracy Crook > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 Canopy skirt
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Last question first, yes, common story. Do you have the 1-piece or 2-piece skirt? If you have a 1-piece skirt, you need to convert it into a 2-piece skirt, by cutting it on the rear centerline. After it is all fitted and riveted, you will custom glass the back together. The skirt has a radius that fits into the junction of plexi and frame. Using a little homemade radius tool with a center line, I went around and marked the center of this radius. I used this line as a reference to trim the upper edge. I then drilled holes and clecko'd the skirt on. Then, using the seams in the sheet metal as guides, I trimmed the lower edges. I made the lower edges line up with the edges of the top cowl skin and the turtledeck skin (looks nice). I tried to make the upper edge of the skirt line up with the upper edge of the windscreen skirt (failed, but not too bad). I made sure the upper trim line was straight before riveting, so I wouldn't have to sand up against the plexi. There are some pictures of my windscreen skirt at www.lazy8.net/rv8.html Good luck, John Pagosa Springs, CO RV8 30 hrs (10 to go!) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tracy Crook Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-8 Canopy skirt I'm just starting to fit the RV-8 canopy skirt and I'm stuck on the step where it says to trim the skirt 1/4" away from the "scribed line". Look as I may, there is no trace of a scribed line, mold line, or anything resembling either. Can any of you RV-8 builders give me an idea of where the top & bottom of the skirt ends up relative to canopy frame (top) and junction of top & side Fuselage skins (bottom)? Also, everything seems to fit fairly well except for the rear 1/3 of the skirt at the top edge. It stands out away from the canopy bubble by at least 1/3", way more than will ever lay down when pop riveted to the canopy frame. Looks like I'll have to trim most of the top edge above the rivet line away and lay up some glass to fair it into the canopy bubble. Common story? Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: Todds Canopies
Date: Jan 02, 2003
http://www.kgarden.com/todd/ -----Original Message----- From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] Subject: RV-List: Todds Canopies Does anybody have an email address for Todd Silver at Todds Canopies? Thanks Al Grajek algrajek(at)msn.com The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months RE: RV-List: Todds Canopies http://www.kgarden.com/todd/ -----Original Message----- From: Al Grajek [<A HREF"mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com">mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] Subject: RV-List: Todds Canopies -- RV-List message posted by: Al Grajek algrajek(at)msn.com Does anybody have an email address for Todd Silver at Todds Canopies? Thanks Al Grajek algrajek(at)msn.com The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rv8don(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Subject: Re: Todds Canopies
Al, It is: Todd Silver Todd's Canopies 1445 NE 33rd St. Ft Lauderdale, FL 33334 (954) 579-0874 Got a canopy from Todd a couple of months ago. Nice quality and Todd was good to work with. Regards, -Don RV8 NJ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Firewall penetration of Prop control cable
Jim, Page 18 of First Issue 2001 of RVator has a diagram of engine control penetrations. If you don't have it, I can send you an image. It is referenced from the left side vertical row of rivets in the firewall and the top row of rivets. The X= 7-7/32 and the Y= 4-17/32. So, the cable makes a 90 degree turn to the right to reach the governor. Regards, Richard Dudley -6A FWF Jim Jewell wrote: > > > Happy New Year, > > Does anyone have a coordinate position for the hole in the firewall that the C/S prop govenor control cable will pass through? > For instance: X number of inches up from the fuselage bottom flange. > Y number of inches in from the left side skin flange. > > For some reason I just can't picture it's position > I'm Building a 6a with an O-360-A1A. The cable I have is the 45.5" one from Van's. > > Thanks in advance, > > Jim in Kelowna > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Todds Canopies
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Bsilver05(at)aol.com 954579-0874 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Al Grajek Subject: RV-List: Todds Canopies Does anybody have an email address for Todd Silver at Todds Canopies? Thanks Al Grajek algrajek(at)msn.com The new MSN 8 is here: Try it free* for 2 months ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Austin" <6430(at)axion.net>
Subject: Belly antenna
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Greetings y'all.. I need a bent whip antenna for the belly of my 6.....anybody have one to sell me ? Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <jclark(at)conterra.com>
Subject: UPDATE #2 ... Random (engine??) "POP"
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Jeff actually recommends the use of aircraft plugs. He was not against auto plugs ... I specifially asked if maybe we should change. But, per him the aviation plugs should give better performance. Also, we have the same plugs upper and lower ...just a different gapping. Yes, automotive would work. I must repeat to all, we have NOT determined conclusively that we have a "fix" yet. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ollie Washburn > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 8:43 AM > To: RV-List Matronics > Subject: Re: RV-List: UPDATE #2 ... Random (engine??) "POP" > > > Hi James--------I'm just curious as to why you are using > aircraft plugs instead of supplied auto plugs? > Ollie 6A (Jeff's on rt.) > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: James E. Clark > To: Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com > Subject: RV-List: UPDATE #2 ... Random (engine??) "POP" > > > First, I must mention that Jeff Rose was such a delight to chat > with on the > phone about this matter. He is sending to me some of the "improved" rubber > grommets for the plug wires. (ElectroAir users will know what this is). > > > Again THANKS(!!!) to all who sent in suggestions. I still may need to > followup on each. > > James > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alodine treatment
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com>
I am approaching the stage in my RV-9A empennage construction where I need to make a decision on corrosion treatment. I've done a lot of investigation and reading on the subject, and since I live in a relatively dry, non-salty climate, I plan to just alodine the interior surfaces. Also I'm a big guy and every paint pound counts. I have only a couple last unanswered questions. One poster in the archive said that alodine surfaces are brittle, but I haven't seen any reports from anyone where the treatment actually failed. I am wondering how a failure of the surface is manifested. Small cracks? Sloughing of the treated surface? Flaking? Anyone have experience with a corrosion or mechanical/chemical failure of an alodined aluminum surface? Has anyone done only this and wished later they had primed as well? I'm attending a meeting of corrosion experts (I am not one) in February. I'll ask around on the subject, and if I learn anything new, I'll report back to the list. Bruce Anthony RV-9A Empennage in my garage Rosemount, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Hawkins <lhawkins(at)giant.com>
Subject: Belly antenna
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Austin I have an older one that you can have for free. Just give me your mailing address. Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, flying -----Original Message----- From: Austin [mailto:6430(at)axion.net] Subject: RV-List: Belly antenna Greetings y'all.. I need a bent whip antenna for the belly of my 6.....anybody have one to sell me ? Austin. RE: RV-List: Belly antenna Austin I have an older one that you can have for free. Just give me your mailing address. Larry Hawkins, RV-4 Farmington, NM, N-345SL, flying -----Original Message----- From: Austin [<A HREF"mailto:6430(at)axion.net">mailto:6430(at)axion.net] Subject: RV-List: Belly antenna -- RV-List message posted by: Austin 6430(at)axion.net Greetings y'all.. I need a bent whip antenna for the belly of my 6.....anybody have one to sell me ? Austin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Alodine treatment
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Alodine is a VERY thin chemical conversion of the top layer of the aluminum. If it gets scratched, you've lost the barrier. It doesn't add material, so there is no material to come loose. Anodizing (another process entirely) makes the surface of the part more brittle. Yes, our spars are anodized. Van says it really doesn't matter, as you'll get 12,000 (?) hours out of the anodized spar, more with the un-anodized spar. Again, this isn't a coating, it is a transformation of the metal. Check the archives, but I think you'll find that it is a LOT of work to alodine your entire kit, and you may find that it isn't worth the investment of your time and money. If you're looking for a good solution for a non-salty, dry climate, I'd say prime (pick a brand) the faying surfaces, and leave the remainder unprimed. The airplane will be lighter, you'll have saved time and money, and you'll have protected the areas that are most likely to corrode. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com> Subject: RV-List: Alodine treatment > > I am approaching the stage in my RV-9A empennage construction where I need to make a decision on corrosion treatment. I've done a lot of investigation and reading on the subject, and since I live in a relatively dry, non-salty climate, I plan to just alodine the interior surfaces. Also I'm a big guy and every paint pound counts. > > I have only a couple last unanswered questions. One poster in the archive said that alodine surfaces are brittle, but I haven't seen any reports from anyone where the treatment actually failed. I am wondering how a failure of the surface is manifested. Small cracks? Sloughing of the treated surface? Flaking? Anyone have experience with a corrosion or mechanical/chemical failure of an alodined aluminum surface? Has anyone done only this and wished later they had primed as well? > > I'm attending a meeting of corrosion experts (I am not one) in February. I'll ask around on the subject, and if I learn anything new, I'll report back to the list. > > > Bruce Anthony > RV-9A > Empennage in my garage > Rosemount, MN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Alodine treatment
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Bruce, Alodine is a form of acid etch treatment (3 minute wetting of surface and some scuffing with red Scotch Bright pad) and the only visible change to the aluminum surface is a slight gold tint - if you buy the "gold" alodine instead of the "clear". There is no "brittle" or "hard surface" change to aluminum. - Alodine, alone, without corrosion control primer, does NOTHING for corrosion resistance - it is ENTIRELY to promote adhesion of paint. ANODIZING is an electrical coating process that does give a hard surface "layer" - it changes the molecules on the surface - there is some mention of "brittle" - it is a "harder" surface than plan, un-anodized aluminum. I use gold tint alodine - the gold tint is rather faint - grows fainter as the chemical is "used up" as you run several pieces through the same batch of liquid. Also, either ALCLAD (pure aluminum) or the alloys (6064, etc) take a more bright color tint - I forget which way it goes. In other words, some parts will hardly change color at all - don't worry about it - except, if the parts that SHOULD change color don't, then it is probably time to toss that batch of liquid and pour in some fresh stuff. The process I've used is this, based on calls to tech service of all suppliers of stuff I'm using: 1) Put on latex rubber exam gloves when handling parts to be cleaned, alodined, and painted - keeps body oils off parts - body oils don't help paint adhesion. 2) Wash parts in warm water in kitchen sink or bathtub (to remove oil from manufacturing/rolling/forming processes, & body oils, etc) using liquid dish soap, and scrub with red Scotch Bright pad ( I cut off little 1/2 inch by 1 inch pieces from the big 10 inch or so square pieces that you buy), then rinse, and blot & blow dry (don't want minerals from city water to be left behind). 3) Wet in alodine for 3' and a bit of scrubbing with SB pad. 4) Paint with your choice of corrosion control primer - on same day, before 24 hours is up or whatever it says on the label. I'd go with Deft, a PARTLY water based 2 part epoxy system that cleans up with water (about 90% and a bit of solvent for final cleaning. The stuff will still kill you if you breath it - is is no safer than my solvent-based strontium chomate 2 part epoxy primer - DEFT also has the strontium chromate and other nasty stuff - wear a good mask. - Solvent based stuff: Solvent is very volitile and evaporate rapidly, causing primer to thicken up, go on too thick, and weigh more - have to keep thinning. - Don't think Deft has nearly as much solvent - if any - so should stay same consistency. To cut weight of paint, you only need to spray along lines where two parts will be in physical contact, like a row of rivet holes in a skin where it will be riveted to a rib or spar. And, seems to me, that painting only one of the parts to be in contact would be satisfactory. So, you don't have to paint every side and every square inch of every part. There is difference of experience and opinion on when & if you will have corrosion on a skin area that is not in contact with anything - if you want to paint inside of bottom skins that might collect junk from the air, then do so. I wouldn't, on my next airplane, paint the inside of upper skins - very little probability of corrosion there. - Also, re weight of primer: My primer is supposed to go on 0.7 mils thick - very thin layer. Can read marking pen ink thru that thin a layer. Don't know about Deft - call their tech supt. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com> Subject: RV-List: Alodine treatment > > I am approaching the stage in my RV-9A empennage construction where I need to make a decision on corrosion treatment. I've done a lot of investigation and reading on the subject, and since I live in a relatively dry, non-salty climate, I plan to just alodine the interior surfaces. Also I'm a big guy and every paint pound counts. > > I have only a couple last unanswered questions. One poster in the archive said that alodine surfaces are brittle, but I haven't seen any reports from anyone where the treatment actually failed. I am wondering how a failure of the surface is manifested. Small cracks? Sloughing of the treated surface? Flaking? Anyone have experience with a corrosion or mechanical/chemical failure of an alodined aluminum surface? Has anyone done only this and wished later they had primed as well? > > I'm attending a meeting of corrosion experts (I am not one) in February. I'll ask around on the subject, and if I learn anything new, I'll report back to the list. > > > Bruce Anthony > RV-9A > Empennage in my garage > Rosemount, MN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Alodine treatment
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: "Gannon, Terence" <Terence.Gannon(at)trican.ca>
Bruce -- others who are more expert may correct me, but I think you might be confusing anodizing with alodining. Alodining is usually the second step in a three step priming process (clean, alodine, prime) and as far as I know, there is no issue with making the part brittle with alodining. The issue (if in fact there is one) of embrittlement is related to anodizing, which is an electrolytic process, totally different from alodining. I realize that I haven't answered your central question, but I thought that would contribute the little I do know ;-) Cheers... Terry in Calgary RV-6 S/N 24414 "Wings" -----Original Message----- From: Bruce Anthony [mailto:bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com] Subject: RV-List: Alodine treatment --> I am approaching the stage in my RV-9A empennage construction where I need to make a decision on corrosion treatment. I've done a lot of investigation and reading on the subject, and since I live in a relatively dry, non-salty climate, I plan to just alodine the interior surfaces. Also I'm a big guy and every paint pound counts. I have only a couple last unanswered questions. One poster in the archive said that alodine surfaces are brittle, but I haven't seen any reports from anyone where the treatment actually failed. I am wondering how a failure of the surface is manifested. Small cracks? Sloughing of the treated surface? Flaking? Anyone have experience with a corrosion or mechanical/chemical failure of an alodined aluminum surface? Has anyone done only this and wished later they had primed as well? I'm attending a meeting of corrosion experts (I am not one) in February. I'll ask around on the subject, and if I learn anything new, I'll report back to the list. Bruce Anthony RV-9A Empennage in my garage Rosemount, MN direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Subject: [ Fred Stucklen ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Fred Stucklen Subject: RV-6A IFR Inst Panel & Wiring http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/wstucklen1@cox.net.01.02.2003/index.html -------------------------------------------- o EMAIL LIST PHOTO SHARE Share your files and photos with other List members simply by emailing the files to: pictures(at)matronics.com Please view the typical Share above and include the Description Text Fields as shown along with your submission of files and photos. o Main Photo Share Index: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare -------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net>
Subject: Hartzell Prop for Sale
Date: Jan 02, 2003
I have decided to go to a composite prop on my RV6 ( still finishing) with 0-360 engine. I have a new C/S Hartzell Prop and McCauley governor I bought from Vans a while back that have never been run. I'll sell both for less than Van's lists today and they are available now. Contact me off line Duane Bentley N515DB (reserved) RV6 finishing electrical wiring West Chester, OH 513-777-5491 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Alodine treatment
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Hi Bruce, Anodizing does have embrittlement issues attached to it. The trade off is between how long before corrosion of the anodized part becomes problematic and the overall anodized part service life. It seems that an anodized part is expected to have a good service life for a period longer than the expected service life of the assembled airworthy aircraft. The un-Anodized part would have twice that expected service life as long as corrosion is avoided or kept out of the equation. I can not say which is the better road to travel. There is a notable amount of info in the archives if my memory serves me. A prime reason to do chemical Alodining is to stop Filform corrosion. Filform corrosion is disused in the Van's builders instruction on page 13-3. Alodine treatment is best done immediately after the phosphoric acid treatment is rinsed and dried. Alodine crystallizes the surface locking out aluminum oxidization that begins the instant that oxygen reaches it. This surface crystallization stabilizes the oxide formation and provides a good footing or grip for the application of corrosion protection or priming. I don't think that Alodining has any positive/negative structural effect such as with Anodizing as described above. Alodine when properly applied should give a gold yellow sheen to the surfaces it is applied to. It should not be allowed to get to dark gold or brown as this lends itself to surface flaking. Happy building Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruce Anthony" <bruce.anthony(at)holidaycompanies.com> Subject: RV-List: Alodine treatment > > I am approaching the stage in my RV-9A empennage construction where I need to make a decision on corrosion treatment. I've done a lot of investigation and reading on the subject, and since I live in a relatively dry, non-salty climate, I plan to just alodine the interior surfaces. Also I'm a big guy and every paint pound counts. > > I have only a couple last unanswered questions. One poster in the archive said that alodine surfaces are brittle, but I haven't seen any reports from anyone where the treatment actually failed. I am wondering how a failure of the surface is manifested. Small cracks? Sloughing of the treated surface? Flaking? Anyone have experience with a corrosion or mechanical/chemical failure of an alodined aluminum surface? Has anyone done only this and wished later they had primed as well? > > I'm attending a meeting of corrosion experts (I am not one) in February. I'll ask around on the subject, and if I learn anything new, I'll report back to the list. > > > Bruce Anthony > RV-9A > Empennage in my garage > Rosemount, MN > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Alodine treatment
Date: Jan 02, 2003
Hi Bruce, 2 things here, Apples & Oranges.... Both provide some level of corrosion protection, but: Alodine...CHEMICAL COATING. Easy, economical, lightweight, effective, no noxious fumes and fast. Anodize...Electochemical Reaction. Not easily done at home (I've done it and I know), produces toxic fumes, not to mention that the bath is sulfuric acid and must have quite a high voltage applied to it which then produces a toxic gas that must be ventilated away. Not pratical for corrosion protection on the entire airplane. Overall, I dip nearly every part of my plane, as the weight is nil, it's fast, looks good, and the corrosion protection is as good or better than most primers, short of Zinc Chromate. (ooops, shouldn't have gone there.. :) Cheers, Stein Bruch, Minneapolis RV6, Flying RV7, Empennage From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Anthony Subject: RV-List: Alodine treatment I am approaching the stage in my RV-9A empennage construction where I need to make a decision on corrosion treatment. I've done a lot of investigation and reading on the subject, and since I live in a relatively dry, non-salty climate, I plan to just alodine the interior surfaces. Also I'm a big guy and every paint pound counts. I have only a couple last unanswered questions. One poster in the archive said that alodine surfaces are brittle, but I haven't seen any reports from anyone where the treatment actually failed. I am wondering how a failure of the surface is manifested. Small cracks? Sloughing of the treated surface? Flaking? Anyone have experience with a corrosion or mechanical/chemical failure of an alodined aluminum surface? Has anyone done only this and wished later they had primed as well? I'm attending a meeting of corrosion experts (I am not one) in February. I'll ask around on the subject, and if I learn anything new, I'll report back to the list. Bruce Anthony RV-9A Empennage in my garage Rosemount, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: IO-360-A power spreadsheet - need to fix errors
I found several errors in this spreadsheet that cause it to fail to calculate at some rpm and manifold pressure conditions. There is also a data error for 2000 rpm. I will post a corrected version on 4 Jan 2003 as soon as I do some more testing. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Moser" <moserr(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: w-822 inspection hole covers
Date: Jan 02, 2003
How should one countersink the rivet holes that attach the k1100-08 platenuts for the inspection covers to the bottom wing skins? The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking is not a great option, but dimpling doesn't leave the platenut flush with the skin. I know the platenuts only hold the access cover on, but still, I was wondering what others have done..... Things that make you go hmmmmmm! Bob Moser East Bethel, MN RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: Charles Kuss <chaskuss(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: w-822 inspection hole covers
Bob, My solution was to replace the K1100 nutplates with MS21049-08K nutplates. These are the "triple dimpled" nutplates. The rivet holes are also dimpled on these nutplates. I bought 100 of these from Wicks at a very good price last year. I've been using them everywhere. (All my floors are removable) Charlie Kuss --- Robert Moser wrote: > > > How should one countersink the rivet holes that > attach the k1100-08 platenuts for the inspection > covers to the bottom wing skins? > > The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking > is not a great option, but dimpling doesn't leave > the platenut flush with the skin. I know the > platenuts only hold the access cover on, but still, > I was wondering what others have done..... > > Things that make you go hmmmmmm! > > Bob Moser > East Bethel, MN > RV-8 Wings > > > > Click on the > this > generous > _-> > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: w-822 inspection hole covers
Date: Jan 03, 2003
I think I used countersunk nutplates and dimpled the skin.... - Larry Bowen, RV-8 wires Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003: The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Moser > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 11:45 PM > To: RV List > Subject: RV-List: w-822 inspection hole covers > > > > How should one countersink the rivet holes that attach the > k1100-08 platenuts for the inspection covers to the bottom wing skins? > > The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking is not a > great option, but dimpling doesn't leave the platenut flush > with the skin. I know the platenuts only hold the access > cover on, but still, I was wondering what others have done..... > > Things that make you go hmmmmmm! > > Bob Moser > East Bethel, MN > RV-8 Wings > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Can Canadians can save money on shipments?
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Find yourself a friendly American builder to receive and hold your shipment until you can pick it up your self. You also save money shipping to a commercial address as compared to residential. Or better yet have it held at the shipping distribution center closest to your locale. Gotta love free trade. I've got a commercial shipping address in Niagara falls if it would help any of our southern Ontario neighbors. Steven DiNieri capsteve(at)adelphia.net n221rv n331rv ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 02, 2003
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: w-822 inspection hole covers
You can dimple nutplates yourself. I do it all the time. Use the female die with a side ground flat for close clearances. Ed Holyoke > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Kuss > Sent: Thursday, January 02, 2003 9:09 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: w-822 inspection hole covers > > > Bob, > My solution was to replace the K1100 nutplates with > MS21049-08K nutplates. These are the "triple dimpled" > nutplates. The rivet holes are also dimpled on these > nutplates. I bought 100 of these from Wicks at a very > good price last year. I've been using them everywhere. > (All my floors are removable) > Charlie Kuss > > --- Robert Moser wrote: > > > > > > How should one countersink the rivet holes that > > attach the k1100-08 platenuts for the inspection > > covers to the bottom wing skins? > > > > The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking > > is not a great option, but dimpling doesn't leave > > the platenut flush with the skin. I know the > > platenuts only hold the access cover on, but still, > > I was wondering what others have done..... > > > > Things that make you go hmmmmmm! > > > > Bob Moser > > East Bethel, MN > > RV-8 Wings > > > > > > > > Click on the > > this > > generous > > _-> > > Contributions > > any other > > Forums. > > > > latest messages. > > List members. > > > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > > Digests:http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list > > http://www.matronics.com/archives > > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _-> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Overhaul/repair gyro
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Anyone know a shop I can send a turn & bank to for clean up and repair? I would be happy to use a Canadian company, if you can recommend one. Stephen Soule Huntington, Vermont N227RV RV-6A flying N222SZ RV-8 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2003
lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
I corrected the errors I found in the IO-360 power spreadsheet. It is built from the Lycoming chart for the IO-360-A, -C, -D, -J, -K and AIO-360 series. I tried comparing it to data from the POH for a 1977 Mooney 201 with a IO-360-A3B6 engine. However it quickly became clear that the data in the Mooney POH differs significantly from the Lycoming power chart. For example, at 8000 ft and 2700 rpm, Mooney claims that 23.6" manifold pressure gives 75% power, while the Lycoming power chart gives something like 21" for 75%. Either Mooney wants to cruise at artificially high power to give good marketing numbers, or they measure manifold pressure differently than Lycoming or Lycoming has changed their power chart since 1977. The corrected Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the front page of the site for the next while. Several years ago I created an Excel 4 spreadsheet version of a power chart for the Lycoming O-360-A and -C engines. It is also available on my web site. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
"RV-List $E-mail$"
Subject: Fuel Sender Help
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Happy New Year friends! I'm just finishing my second tank and found the, I think, fuel sender is inaccurate. When testing with the arm all the way up it reads full. When testing with it in the lowest position it reads about a couple gallons off the lower gauge peg. I tried it with two gauges and got the same reading. My first sender seems to be right on. Anyone else run into this problem? Thanks, Jack Textor RV8, wings KDSM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender Help
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Yep, the right tank gauge on my RV-4 reads backwards too. I mounted the sender upside down. I promise to do better on my -8 :-) Tracy Crook tcrook(at)rotaryaviation.com www.rotaryaviation.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com> Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Help > > Happy New Year friends! I'm just finishing my second tank and found the, I > think, fuel sender is inaccurate. When testing with the arm all the way up > it reads full. When testing with it in the lowest position it reads about a > couple gallons off the lower gauge peg. I tried it with two gauges and got > the same reading. My first sender seems to be right on. Anyone else run > into this problem? > Thanks, > Jack Textor > RV8, wings > KDSM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass on would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I don't remember exactly which models had it. My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to 22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day). John -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com Subject: RV-List: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets I corrected the errors I found in the IO-360 power spreadsheet. It is built from the Lycoming chart for the IO-360-A, -C, -D, -J, -K and AIO-360 series. I tried comparing it to data from the POH for a 1977 Mooney 201 with a IO-360-A3B6 engine. However it quickly became clear that the data in the Mooney POH differs significantly from the Lycoming power chart. For example, at 8000 ft and 2700 rpm, Mooney claims that 23.6" manifold pressure gives 75% power, while the Lycoming power chart gives something like 21" for 75%. Either Mooney wants to cruise at artificially high power to give good marketing numbers, or they measure manifold pressure differently than Lycoming or Lycoming has changed their power chart since 1977. The corrected Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the front page of the site for the next while. Several years ago I created an Excel 4 spreadsheet version of a power chart for the Lycoming O-360-A and -C engines. It is also available on my web site. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Subject: EIS and Cap. fuel senders
From: <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Surely I am not the only one using Van's capacitance fuel senders and the Grand Rapids EIS for fuel level. Am I? What are other's using for the converters -- the little gizmos that allow the sender to talk to the EIS? Greg at EIS offers very expensive Princeton converters. Van's has cheap converters for the EI fuel gauage ($45/tank?). Blue Mtn has similar devices for $70 for use with their EFIS. Are either of these compatible with the EIS? Are there other options? Who has been here, done this? Thanks, Larry(at)BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RICKRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Subject: Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
My engine came from a 1987 Mooney 201 and it had this device. It seemed the best of all worlds. The intake provided a choice of flitered air for ground and dirty environment operations, direct unfiltered ram air in flight, and an alternate air source if things really went downhill. I opted to install an F-1 Rocket intake and a cone shapped K&N filter on my -8. I've equiped the airplane for IFR but unfortunately don't have a means to provide alternate air beyond the filter. Rick McBride 80027 N523RJ In a message dated 1/3/03 9:44:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, rv8tor(at)lazy8.net writes: > > Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be > operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass on > would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I > don't remember exactly which models had it. > > My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to > 22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day). > > John > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton > To: rv8-list(at)matronics.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com; rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com; > lycoming(at)yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: IO-360 &O-360 power spreadsheets > > > I corrected the errors I found in the IO-360 power spreadsheet. It > is built from the Lycoming chart for the IO-360-A, -C, -D, -J, -K and > AIO-360 series. > > I tried comparing it to data from the POH for a 1977 Mooney 201 with > a IO-360-A3B6 engine. However it quickly became clear that the data > in the Mooney POH differs significantly from the Lycoming power > chart. For example, at 8000 ft and 2700 rpm, Mooney claims that > 23.6" manifold pressure gives 75% power, while the Lycoming power > chart gives something like 21" for 75%. Either Mooney wants to > cruise at artificially high power to give good marketing numbers, or > they measure manifold pressure differently than Lycoming or Lycoming > has changed their power chart since 1977. > > The corrected Excel 4 spreadsheet basically replicates the graphical > power chart found in the Lycoming Operator Manual. The zipped > spreadsheet can be found on my web site - there is a link in the > Engine part of the RV Links section, and there will be a link on the > front page of the site for the next while. > > Several years ago I created an Excel 4 spreadsheet version of a power > chart for the Lycoming O-360-A and -C engines. It is also available > on my web site. > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (baffles, induction air, oil cooler) > Ottawa, Canada > http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave von Linsowe" <davevon(at)tir.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 & O-360 power spreadsheets
Date: Jan 03, 2003
John, How close is your M.P. gage on the ground? I found mine to be almost an inch off. Dave RV-6 The need for speed--> > > Some of the Mooneys had an air filter bypass arrangement that could be > operated in flight. I have used this in the past, and pulling the bypass on > would result in an increase of manifold pressure of about 1 1/2 inches. I > don't remember exactly which models had it. > > My RV8 with K&N filter (canister style, 3x bigger than Van's) shows 22 to > 22.5 inches at 8000 ft. (depends on barometric pressure that day). > > John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: w-822 inspection hole covers (nut plate countersinking)
Date: Jan 03, 2003
That is a problem everywhere a K1100-8 nut-plate is used on thin aluminum and rivets have to be countersinked (countersunk?): I made a little tool to install all my nut-plates: I took a short piece of 3/16" dia brass rod and turned the end down so I could thread it to #8-32 right to the end of the shoulder to the 3/16" original dia. If you screw this piece of rod into a nut plate, you'll find goes-in a couple if turns before it starts to bind in the distorted part of the nut-plate. So cut off the threaded part until the shoulder clamps the nut-plate to the piece it will finally be riveted to (assuming you've drilled the hole .173" dia, [#17 drill] beforehand). The resulting little tool can be used for all #8 nut-plates and does not take-up the space of a screw head does, thus allowing a 1/2"dia #40 countersink to countersink the aluminum AND the nut-plate together for riveting. I found it frustrating to drill nut-plate holes #30 to hold them with a 1/8" clecoes while the rivet holes are drilled, and then enlarging them to #17 for the 1/8" screw: What invariably happens, the flute of the drill will grab into one side of the #30 hole and the result will be an-off center #17 hole! Cheers-------Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: tchoug <tchoug(at)micron.com>
Subject: w-822 inspection hole covers
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Hi Bob, In most cases, I use the oops rivets for attaching the nut plates to the thin stock. The 3/32" ones have a very small head that works great for attaching the nut plates when countersinking the skin. I usually just countersink the skin with about ten turns of the deburring tool. Then you don't have to mess with trying to dimple the nutplates. If you need some oops rivets let me know, I can stop by and drop some off. Todd -----Original Message----- From: Robert Moser [mailto:moserr(at)earthlink.net] Subject: RV-List: w-822 inspection hole covers How should one countersink the rivet holes that attach the k1100-08 platenuts for the inspection covers to the bottom wing skins? The outboard skin is .025" so machine countersinking is not a great option, but dimpling doesn't leave the platenut flush with the skin. I know the platenuts only hold the access cover on, but still, I was wondering what others have done..... Things that make you go hmmmmmm! Bob Moser East Bethel, MN RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Galati" <rick07x(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: w-822 inspection hole covers
Date: Jan 03, 2003
rear fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: RE; RV-List W822 Inspection hole covers
Date: Jan 03, 2003
I dimpled the nut plates as well as the overlying skins. My dimple dies come from Avery Tools and included female dies with one side flat so the threaded portion of the nut plate will not interfere with the function of the dies. Careful, you can snap the tip of of the male 3/32" die ($30 error) very easily when dimpling steel nut plates if there is any sideload or pressure. Dick DeCramer RV-6 Northfield, MN Baffles & FAB "The end is in sight" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Karpinski" <karpinski(at)baldcom.net>
Subject: QB and aft tooling holes for wiring conduit
Date: Jan 03, 2003
For those of you who have QB wings.. and still want to run a conduit... You can still use the aft tooling holes to run a 5/8 OD PVC conduit for your wires.. I went to McMaster-Carr.. Got 3 drill bit extensions.. 2 ft each.. Made it easy to use the Unibit.. 3 Minute job.. With the right tools! _________________________ Al Karpinski RV8QB Central NY 12"+ snow today ! Nice warm shop to work in ! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Music Connection
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Hey Guys, I have a question for those of you that have or are planning to have music in your cockpit. I currently have a PS Engineering PMA4000 Audio Panel. The panel is mono (which doesn't bother me) and has one input marked as music jack. I have a Sony AM/FM/MP3 player with front and rear left and right speakers. I am assuming that I will only connect one set, but which, front or rear? Also, with only one music input, how do in connect the left and right? I called PS Engineering tech support and they said that maybe I should tie the two speaker outputs together through a 10K resistor but they weren't sure. How have others done this? Vince Welch ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2003
From: FlashandCo(at)aol.com
Subject: Canopy Screws
Listers, From those who have gone before, is there much difficulty in using the #6 screws into tapped holes everywhere on the RV6 sliding canopy? I like the looks of screws along the canopy front bow and backbone, but wonder if screws can be used along the 1/2 dia. rear canopy bow. Also, Van's talks about drilling the plexi to 1/8 inch for the #6 screw, but an RVAtor article by Charles Wagner (Aug 97) discusses opening these suckers to 5/16 inch due to plexi expansion/contraction. Any good middle ground? Thanks for the assist. Bob Gordon Dover DE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2003
From: Chris <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
vansairforce
Subject: Elevator Trim servo mounting location
I have been reading a lot about the mounting of the elevator trim servo. Some where that I can't find now I saw a modification to mount that servo on the aft deck instead of in the elevator. Has any one done this? And if so how did it work out. It seems to me like getting that weight out of the elevator would be desirable and it also seems like it would just be all around easier to put it on the aft deck. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Jan 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Paint Shops on East Coast
Will: I had a real nice conversation with Brian on the phone. My hometown is pretty close to Loris ... so I am going down for a visit. Hope to see the 8 he is presently working on. There is a good chance I will make an opening he has for February. Again, thanks for the information. Len Leggette RV-8A N901LL Greensboro, N.C. 44 hours !! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2003
From: Chris <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
RV-list
Subject: Gear legs -- titanium?
I have been reading about titanium gear legs in the archives. Like lots of things there was mostly disinformation so I thought I would post what I know and see what others thought. First stiffness. Titanium is not as stiff as steel, steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium. Then their is strength. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but as I recall, the titanium alloy that comes to mind for this application is called 6-4 with 6% aluminum and 4% vanadium and most of the remainder titanium. This alloy is pretty close to the strength of 4140 steel but not quite as strong. Ok then there is weight. Steel is .283 lb/in 3 (or around there depending on alloy) and 6-4 titanium is .160 lb/in 3. Now that we have the stats lets talk about what we want to accomplish with titanium gear legs. I think it is common knowledge that the gear legs are limiting factor in gross take off weight of an RV. (I don't know about the 8 since it uses different gear design than the other RV's) So what I want is a stronger gear leg with out adding weight. Since Weight increases with the square of the diameter we can make a titanium leg 33% larger and still have the same weight. Stiffness increases with 4th power of the diameter so with a 33% larger leg the stiffness would be a little more than triple the original size leg and since steel is almost twice as stiff as titanium that would mean that our new titanium gear leg is about 50% stiffer than the steel leg. Now for strength, strength increases with the cube of the diameter so our new gear leg would be about 2.35 times stronger than the original diameter and since the titanium is close to the strength of steel this new leg should be noticeably stronger than the steel let. Now lets keep in mind that I'm not an engineer (I just play one on the internet). There are other material properties that I am not aware of that may make titanium a bad choice here. But there are also titanium spring alloys that I think are even stronger than than 6-4 and still have the same stiffness, maybe they would be a better choice. So how do we mount the new larger diameter gear to the plane. Well if the leg is larger, but we turn down the end that goes in the mount on the plane so it fits in the same hole the steel leg did, it would seem that we have just defeated our purpose. So new mounts are in order, which makes this modification a whole lot more difficult, unless some one knows some thing I don't or can see some other way to mate the new larger leg to the original gear mount. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 (home) chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jan 03, 2003
From: "George Wilson" <topgun@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Gear legs -- titanium?
Interesting post. We have been looking at this material for gear legs on an ultralight. IE a redesign of the Ultracruiser that had unsprung gear and there have been gear problems. GW ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Elevator Stiffener ?s
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2003
A couple of easy stiffener questions on the 7A: 1) When people have been cutting the taper on the rudder and/or elevator stiffeners, how have they been doing it? Do they gut the bulk off with WISS snips (and finish with sander/scotchbrite), or do they use the file/sander/scotchbrite entirely? I cut the first one with the snips to a rough approximation, but it seems like it warped the stiffener a little bit. 2) When making the elevator -J, K, and L stiffeners, it appears that you trim just a tiny bit off of the tapered end of D, E, and F (almost negiligible). Is that correct? Is the trimming required due to the taper in the elevator (the raised portion is flipped on oppostie sides)? Assuming the elevators are identical, I was questioning why one set would be trimmed. Thanks, Scott Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing Kit Questions
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Jul 16, 2003
I just got the great news that my wing kit shipped today, and I am need to make some "wing" decisions. I would appreciate any feedback on the following: 1) Wing-leveler (Navaid vs. Trutrak) - Based on bang for the buck (one of my most dominant considerations), everything I have read in the archives sounds like the Navaid is a better choice. I do plan to fly IFR, so I will definitely get one or the other. I would appreciate hearing from anyone that strongly supports the Trutrak as a better option. 2) Guages (fuel monitoring) - Based on the reputation of some of the Vans-labeled guages (and installation benefits), I think I will be going with the Grand Rapids EIS-4000 for engine monitoring. I would appreciate hearing any "dislikes" people might have with the Grand Rapids (haven't heard many). Also what type of fuel senders they require (Van's resistive, Van's capacitance, other). FYI...the fancy ones (Vision, ACS, etc.) are out of my price range. Thanks, Scott 7A Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "aronsond" <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Microair T2000 SFL Sale
Date: Jul 15, 2003
Gary: you are second on the list. I will let you know by tomorrow (Wednesday). Thanks Dave Ps: let me know your address and I will quote you UPS fee. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry LeGare" <versadek(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair T2000 SFL Sale > > Dave, I'll take it if it's still available. > > aronsond wrote: > > > > >Lister: > >I have a new, never opened Microair T2000 SFL for sale. Chiefs wants > >$1415.00 for it. I will sell for 1200. It comes with 1 year warantee from > >supplier (from time aircraft is flying). Going to Ebay in a day or so. > >Dave Aronson > >N504RV RV4 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "aronsond" <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
Date: Jul 15, 2003
What is a good source for OAT sensors (12v). Dave aronson RV4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > > I have been told that temperature probes exposed to high speed air flow read > HIGH due to friction of the air across the probe. > > Cy Galley > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > How can so much heated air come out of the side of the cowl and into the > > NACA duct??? I can imagine a lot of things but not this. > > > > > > > > > >I recently coorresponded with Ed Z at Sensenich about a prop re-pitch in > the > > >wake of horsepower increase and airframe clean-up efforts, and as part of > the > > >data collection for Ed's advice, I finally realized the magnitude of the > temp > > >error introduced by placing the OAT probe in the NACA duct on the -6A. > The > > >erroneously high readings we get from this location have been mentioned > > >before, > > >and anyone who was still building when this was first discussed probably > saw > > >trouble coming and placed their probe in a wing root or other shaded > > location, > > >out of the way of hot air leaking from the engine compartment. I was > > finished > > >building by then, so my probe has stayed where it was. By comparing the > > >reading I get when the airplane is first powered up with the OAT readings > > >obtained > > >at low-altitude cruise, I was shocked to see a difference of 6 - 7 > degrees C. > > > Correcting the TAS calculations for this error is not really my main > concern > > >here. What this tells me is that the outside air I am drawing into my > > >cockpit for ventilation and "free air-conditioning" at altitude is about > 13 > > >degrees > > >F warmer than what should be available for this purpose. No wonder I > > start to > > >swelter in the RV cockpit by about 3500 MSL when I let down at the Outer > > >Banks. It's not just the humidity that's the problem! My cockpit is > being > > >fed > > >warm air when cool is available at other pick-off points. > > > > > >Wonder if others have noticed this much extra heating and where else we > can > > >cut NACA vents to get away from the unwanted heat. One experiiment I > have > > yet > > >to do is fly with the fuselage/cowling joints taped to stop the leakage > and > > >recheck the temps I get. > > > > > >-Bill B > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > Eng dept 305 > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: carb repair vs. Ellison TBI
Date: Jul 15, 2003
Hi guys, My carb seems to be acting up and I want to make an informed decision between overhauling the carb myself, sending it out for overhaul (to who?) and replacing it with an Ellison TBI. The engine sometimes falters between 1500 and 2000 rpm and usually hesitates when adding throttle in this range (even small, slow increases with a vernier control). Leaning seems to help a little. The mags check ok and I just removed and cleaned the plugs and they seemed fine with just a little lead, no change in performance. The engine is Lyc O-360 A3A narrow deck converted to A1A with a constant speed prop. The airframe is a RV-6. I've heard good and bad about the Ellison. Although, on the surface it does look like a better option than a carb. I've been all through Ellison's web site. Any opinions, experience and/or info? Thanks, ------------------------------------------------- Hi David I am not an expert on this topic but have not seen any other replies so will take a stab at it. My aircraft is 0-320 with carburetor and also has a little stumble when power is slowly applied and about the 1500 - 1700 RPM range. Only happens occasionally, generally when leveling off from a descent. It is over before you have time to do anything but skip a single heartbeat. I have been told that this occurs at the carburetor change-over point between idle and main jet and is not uncommon. I talked to Lycoming rep. at Arlington and he suggested two things (1) experiment with linkage on accelerator pump if it has different holes on the linkage (2) check idle mixture for 30 RPM rise at idle cut-off. Good Luck George McNutt Langley, B.C. 6-A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: gascolators
In a message dated 7/15/03 6:45:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, versadek(at)earthlink.net writes: > when you flow over > 15 gallons per hour thru the most commonly used gascolator, exposed to > the vibration level of a blender, there is just not a whole bunch of > settling going on. I would have to agree. I've got a Cherokee with a stock gascolator. I've never found any water in the gascolator, ever, although I did find a piece of a bugs(wasp) body lodged in the drain valve causing it to drain slowly. The only water I've ever found was in the wing tank sumps, and only after washing the airplane without taping off the fuel vents.(and then, not very much water, maybe a half thimble full) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Looking for an RV7 engine.
From: Tony Speranza <asperan(at)us.ibm.com>
Date: Jul 09, 2003
07/16/2003 06:34:23 Hi, I'm just starting my RV7. I'd like to find a good rebuildable engine core. I'd prefer an O360 but would consider a 320. I have a really nice 1978 Triumph Bonneville motorcycle. It's valued at $4700 and I'd like to swap. Runs great, numbers all match (engine/transmission never been apart), less then 7000 original miles, original except for new paint, seat cover, cables, gaskets etc. A really fun British classics. Please call Tony 802-878-7377 if interested. Thanks. (See attached file: triumph.bmp) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
In a message dated 07/15/2003 5:55:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time, khorto1537(at)rogers.com writes: > I wonder if what it > really means is that the temp probe indications are affected by the > temperature on the back side of the probe - i.e. the cockpit. The > air in the cockpit is often quite a bit warmer than ambient due to > the green house effect, so perhaps this is what we are seeing. Or > maybe not. > I considered that possibility several years ago, Kevin, and addressed it by putting a huge chunk of spray-in-place foam insulation over the back side of the NACA scopop and the probe body... probably somewhere around R-10-worth of GreatStuff insulation. I think part of the error is ram, part is hot air leakage. Perhaps the duct tape test will tell, when I fly with the seams taped shut... -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: gascolators
Isnt the gascolator after your fuel filter? If yes how did that wasp make it past? > >In a message dated 7/15/03 6:45:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >versadek(at)earthlink.net writes: > >> when you flow over >> 15 gallons per hour thru the most commonly used gascolator, exposed to >> the vibration level of a blender, there is just not a whole bunch of >> settling going on. > >I would have to agree. I've got a Cherokee with a stock gascolator. I've >never found any water in the gascolator, ever, although I did find a piece >of a >bugs(wasp) body lodged in the drain valve causing it to drain slowly. The >only water I've ever found was in the wing tank sumps, and only after >washing the >airplane without taping off the fuel vents.(and then, not very much water, >maybe a half thimble full) > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: RV3 <rv3(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: gascolators
Scott Bilinski wrote: > > Isnt the gascolator after your fuel filter? If yes how did that wasp make > it past? > > > >of abugs(wasp) body lodged in the drain valve causing it to drain slowly. "lodged in the DRAIN VALVE" <===<<< ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Elevator Stiffener ?s
> > >A couple of easy stiffener questions on the 7A: > >1) When people have been cutting the taper on the rudder and/or elevator >stiffeners, how have they been doing it? Do they gut the bulk off >with WISS snips (and finish with sander/scotchbrite), or do they use the >file/sander/scotchbrite entirely? I cut the first one with the snips to a >rough approximation, but it seems like it warped the stiffener a little bit. I cut them out with a fine blade on my band saw, then rounded the corners and brought them to final shape with a 1 inch bench belt sander. After that, I smoothed the edges with a Scotchbrite wheel. Seemed to work quite well. >2) When making the elevator -J, K, and L stiffeners, it appears that you >trim just a tiny bit off of the tapered end of D, E, and F (almost >negiligible). Is that correct? Is the trimming required due to the taper >in the elevator (the raised portion is flipped on oppostie >sides)? Assuming the elevators are identical, I was questioning why one >set would be trimmed. In this case, measure three times, then cut. Actually lay out the stiffeners in the position each one will go before you trim the "odd ball" ones to size. The elevators are not identical. One has the trim mechanism, the other does not. This makes the stiffener layout different on each side. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Aileron Removal
> Has anyone have had to >remove their ailerons from the wings once the plane is flying.? Most folks find that the propwash makes it too difficult to crawl out on the wing. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
"RV8ListVANS" , "VansAirForce"
Subject: Registration numbers
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Could someone tell me the web page to check for available N numbers, and the process for reserving one? Thanks Al Grajek RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: gascolators
Thats what happens when I read to fast. > >Scott Bilinski wrote: > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> >> >> Isnt the gascolator after your fuel filter? If yes how did that wasp make >> it past? >> >> > >> >of abugs(wasp) body lodged in the drain valve causing it to drain slowly. > > "lodged in the DRAIN VALVE" <===<<< > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Stiffener ?s
> > >A couple of easy stiffener questions on the 7A: > >1) When people have been cutting the taper on the rudder and/or elevator >stiffeners, how have they been doing it? Do they gut the bulk off >with WISS snips (and finish with sander/scotchbrite), or do they use the >file/sander/scotchbrite entirely? I cut the first one with the snips to a >rough approximation, but it seems like it warped the stiffener a little bit. > >2) When making the elevator -J, K, and L stiffeners, it appears that you >trim just a tiny bit off of the tapered end of D, E, and F (almost >negiligible). Is that correct? Is the trimming required due to the taper >in the elevator (the raised portion is flipped on oppostie >sides)? Assuming the elevators are identical, I was questioning why one >set would be trimmed. > >Thanks, >Scott Here's what worked well for me. I didn't have much luck using the tin snips, I kept getting wrinkles along the cut that were hard to get out. I wanted something that would make the cut in one shot and discovered the hedge clippers hanging about six feet from my work bench. http://home.teleport.com/~dianas-rv9a/ConLogR/ConLogR20030703.html Scroll down a few pictures and you'll get to the part about the hedge clippers. If you don't have any they are probably less than ten bucks at your local Home Depot or equivalent. Read all the way through the trimming part as there is a right and wrong way to do it and now I have some extra scrap for my experimentation efforts. Drop me a line if you have any questions. Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Registration numbers
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraft.asp > >Could someone tell me the web page to check for available N numbers, and the >process for reserving one? >Thanks >Al Grajek >RV8A > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Strobes...
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Anyone just recently wired their -9 for strobes? Was looking for cable lengths for the wings and to the tail... Thanks! -Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Streamline Tubing CAD file
Does anyone have the profile for streamline tubing in CAD or know the specific NACA profile used? I want to make a hole in a part with the exact correct shape on a CNC mill. Thanks in advance, Bill Dube' National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration Aeronomy Laboratory 2 - Kinetics Group Mail Stop R/AL2 325 Broadway Boulder, CO 80305 (303) 497-3933 (303) 497-5822 (fax) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
Since it's apparent that the NACA duct is not a good place to locate OAT probes, what kind of success has anyone had with other locations? Several people have mentioned the wing root, but it seems to me that if there is enough airflow to give reasonable response time that hot air leaking from the cowl will still be a factor, true or am I missing something (again)? Anyone out there got any real data on that location? Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: Registration numbers
In a message dated 7/16/03 8:13:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time, algrajek(at)msn.com writes: << Could someone tell me the web page to check for available N numbers, and the process for reserving one? Thanks Al Grajek RV8A >> Try http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Questions
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Hi Scott, First let me say I'm not flying quite yet, so my advice is not from first-hand in-flight experience with the specific hardware in question here, but instead based on a lot of research into the options, the experience of others, and my perspective as an avionics systems engineer: 1) For the wing leveler, I bought the Trutrak Digitrak unit. It's only a little more expensive than the Navaid, weighs about the same for the whole system, and has two big advantages over the Navaid: the control head is solid state, and the servo has no clutch. Bottom line is (all other things being equal) the Digitrak will last a lot longer (not as many moving parts to wear out) and operate with greater precision. I know some of the guys using Navaids are happy as a clam with these units and this is not meant as an insult to them, I'm glad they're happy with it. But I know others have had some trouble getting them set up to work well, and I have a friend with one in his Long-EZ who wants to replace it with a Digitrak. The reason we put digital solid-state autopilots in bizjets, fighters and airliners isn't just because it sounds sexy and high-tech and costs a lot of money, it's because there are decided advantages that have made spinning gyros obsolete. The Navaid used to offer a good value in that it offered acceptable performance and was the only thing available in it's price range that would keep you right side up and more or less on course. Now you can get superior technology at a very competitive price...the Digitrak. 2) I have an EIS-4000 because of the outstanding reputation from its many users, and my firsthand experience with Greg Toman at Grand Rapids who has been a pleasure to work with and has incorporated some custom features in my unit at no extra cost. I think this unit is the best thing going in the "bang-for-the-buck" category of digital engine monitors. It's capable, easy to set up and use, light, inexpensive, reliable, and takes up minimal panel space. The only disadvantage is that it doesn't have gauge displays like the bigger, pricier monitors....they are easier for the eye to read and spot trends at a glance than digital characters alone, but the importance of this is not as great when you incorporate the limit alarms that the EIS features. The fancier displays are nice but not necessary. Fuel probes: the EIS-4000 will work with almost any fuel probe out there, ask Greg Toman if you want to be sure before buying. I installed Van's float sensors but then Greg started offering some nice Princeton capacitive probes that are custom bent and fit for RV tanks, so I bought them to retrofit before I put the wings on for final assembly. Whatever you do I'd go capacitive...it's not much more expensive and it should mean you'll never have to service it (as opposed to the floats, where more than one RV'er has had to pull them out and change them...not a fun job). Bottom line is if you want to spend more time flying and less time fixing things, and save weight and increase reliability, go solid state and eliminate mechanical moving parts wherever possible. This applies to autopilots, fuel probes, vacuum pumps (horrors!), gyros of any kind (I've got a Dynon, and no spinning masses of any sort in my panel), engine instruments, etc. The only exception to this rule that I can think of is for a prop...the rule still applies in that a fixed-pitch prop (no moving parts) is more reliable than a constant-speed, but unlike the other things I've listed, the constant-speed prop has a decided performance *advantage* in it's favor. I've got fixed-pitch now, but C.S. is in the long-term plans... Just my humble $.02, no offense to any vacuum-sucking, steam-gauge-loving, clutch-clinging, spinning-mass aficionados out there : ) --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D painting... Subject: RV-List: Wing Kit Questions From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> I just got the great news that my wing kit shipped today, and I am need to make some "wing" decisions. I would appreciate any feedback on the following: 1) Wing-leveler (Navaid vs. Trutrak) - Based on bang for the buck (one of my most dominant considerations), everything I have read in the archives sounds like the Navaid is a better choice. I do plan to fly IFR, so I will definitely get one or the other. I would appreciate hearing from anyone that strongly supports the Trutrak as a better option. 2) Guages (fuel monitoring) - Based on the reputation of some of the Vans-labeled guages (and installation benefits), I think I will be going with the Grand Rapids EIS-4000 for engine monitoring. I would appreciate hearing any "dislikes" people might have with the Grand Rapids (haven't heard many). Also what type of fuel senders they require (Van's resistive, Van's capacitance, other). FYI...the fancy ones (Vision, ACS, etc.) are out of my price range. Thanks, Scott 7A The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Hey Kevin, that's some really interesting stuff...I had NO idea that ram rise could amount to several degrees in an RV, I would have guessed it would be too small to measure! I'll add that to my list of things to impress spam can pilots..."yeah, she flies so fast I have to subtract several degrees from the OAT reading because the probe heats up so much..!" Try THAT in your Cessna 150! He he... So...where would you recommend putting the OAT probe on an -8 or -8A? I was planning to put it in the NACA vent in the lower right wing (or duct connected to it). My thinking was that way it would be shaded, but not enclosed within the structure such that it would heat up excessively when sitting on the ramp in the sun. And it would not be affected in flight by heat from the exhaust or engine. Seems to me that putting it in the wing root fairing for example would probly work great in flight, but when sitting on the ramp wondering what your density altitude performance is going to be for that hot/high takeoff, the probe may be reading much higher than the real air temp due to the air space within the fairing heating up. Whereas if exposed to the open air in the lower NACA vent it should be more accurate, at least on the ground?? Where are you putting it on your airplane? --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D painting...actually still sanding hi-build primer, those pinholes NEVER DIE!! From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > >I recently coorresponded with Ed Z at Sensenich about a prop re-pitch in the >wake of horsepower increase and airframe clean-up efforts, and as part of the >data collection for Ed's advice, I finally realized the magnitude of the temp >error introduced by placing the OAT probe in the NACA duct on the -6A. The >erroneously high readings we get from this location have been >mentioned before, >and anyone who was still building when this was first discussed probably saw >trouble coming and placed their probe in a wing root or other shaded location, >out of the way of hot air leaking from the engine compartment. I was finished >building by then, so my probe has stayed where it was. By comparing the >reading I get when the airplane is first powered up with the OAT >readings obtained >at low-altitude cruise, I was shocked to see a difference of 6 - 7 degrees C. > Correcting the TAS calculations for this error is not really my main concern >here. What this tells me is that the outside air I am drawing into my >cockpit for ventilation and "free air-conditioning" at altitude is >about 13 degrees >F warmer than what should be available for this purpose. No wonder I start to >swelter in the RV cockpit by about 3500 MSL when I let down at the Outer >Banks. It's not just the humidity that's the problem! My cockpit >is being fed >warm air when cool is available at other pick-off points. > >Wonder if others have noticed this much extra heating and where else we can >cut NACA vents to get away from the unwanted heat. One experiiment I have yet >to do is fly with the fuselage/cowling joints taped to stop the leakage and >recheck the temps I get. > >-Bill B Just pondering - Bill figures the high OAT indications are telling him that the air coming into the NACA scoop is warmer than ambient. Perhaps it is, but I'm not sure why that would be (other than the ram temperature rise, which I'll discuss later). I wonder if what it really means is that the temp probe indications are affected by the temperature on the back side of the probe - i.e. the cockpit. The air in the cockpit is often quite a bit warmer than ambient due to the green house effect, so perhaps this is what we are seeing. Or maybe not. Note: there is a bit of ram rise at play here too. The maximum amount of ram rise in deg C is equal to TAS 2/7592, where the TAS is in kt. So, if we are at 170 kt TAS, the max amount of ram rise would be 3.8 deg C. Our temperature probes don't recover the full amount of the ram rise though - the probe recovery factor is probably somewhere between 0.7 and 1, so the actual amount of ram rise at this condition is likely between 2.6 and 3.8 deg C. So, depending on whether Bill has accounted for the ram rise or not, the amount of error might not be quite as much as he reported. However, it is still an error, and it makes sense to not put OAT probes in NACA scoops. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Cowl Installation
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Hey Guys, I just started looking at the installation for my RV-8A cowl. I don't see anything that supports it at the front end near the prop hub. Does it just rest on the baffle seal fabric? The plans show the front of the cowl being located 1/8" higher than the prop hub, what holds it up there? Vince Welch ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Bibb" <richard.bibb(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Looking for a fuel stop enroute to Oshkosh someplace around Columbus, Ohio. Looking fro cheap gas as I won't be flyying the RV this time but a T-6 and cheap gas is kinda a necessity. Any suggesstions? Richard Bibb RV-4 N144KT T6-G N3518G ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terence Gannon" <terence.gannon(at)telus.net>
Subject: Nelson Flightfest 2003 Sept 6-7, 2003
Date: Jul 09, 2003
For those of you that might still be in the area the weekend after Van's Homecoming, this is an event you might consider putting on your fly-in calendar and taking in. Looks like a lot of fun, and a beautiful location in the Kootenays, in British Columbia. Great accommodation and amenities are all within walking distance of the airport. Here's the link; http://www.flynorth.com/nelson.html There's a link at the bottom of the page if you have any additional questions. Hope to see you there!! Cheers. Terry in Calgary RV-6 S/N 24414 "Wings" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Garry LeGare <versadek(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
Harry, I ran the one in Casper out behind the fuel tank and stuck it into the slipstream about a 1/4". it pokes out thru a small grommet so it isn't influenced by contact with the skin. HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote: > >Since it's apparent that the NACA duct is not a good place to locate OAT >probes, what kind of success has anyone had with other locations? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
Go here to check out the prices: http://www.airnav.com/fuel/ > >Looking for a fuel stop enroute to Oshkosh someplace around Columbus, Ohio. >Looking fro cheap gas as I won't be flyying the RV this time but a T-6 and >cheap gas is kinda a necessity. > >Any suggesstions? > >Richard Bibb >RV-4 N144KT >T6-G N3518G > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: OAT probes
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
OAT probes reading high in the NACA vents??? In my experience, when you're OAT probe is any where close to that 400 pound oven on the front of your plane, the readings will be high. Take a thermometer and stick it anywhere near the firewall. What do you get? HOT! If you want an accurate reading for OAT, you'll need to install it far out on the bottom of your wing, insulated from stagnant air inside the wing, yet not really in the slipstream where all of that friction will warm it. Is it worth the trouble.... nah! Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: Elevator Stiffener ?s
Michael McGee wrote: > > > >> >> >>A couple of easy stiffener questions on the 7A: >> >>1) When people have been cutting the taper on the rudder and/or elevator >>stiffeners, how have they been doing it? Do they gut the bulk off >>with WISS snips (and finish with sander/scotchbrite), or do they use the >>file/sander/scotchbrite entirely? I cut the first one with the snips to a >>rough approximation, but it seems like it warped the stiffener a little bit. >> >>2) When making the elevator -J, K, and L stiffeners, it appears that you >>trim just a tiny bit off of the tapered end of D, E, and F (almost >>negiligible). Is that correct? Is the trimming required due to the taper >>in the elevator (the raised portion is flipped on oppostie >>sides)? Assuming the elevators are identical, I was questioning why one >>set would be trimmed. >> >>Thanks, >>Scott >> >> > >Here's what worked well for me. I didn't have much luck using the tin >snips, I kept getting wrinkles along the cut that were hard to get out. I >wanted something that would make the cut in one shot and discovered the >hedge clippers hanging about six feet from my work bench. >http://home.teleport.com/~dianas-rv9a/ConLogR/ConLogR20030703.html >Scroll down a few pictures and you'll get to the part about the hedge >clippers. If you don't have any they are probably less than ten bucks at >your local Home Depot or equivalent. Read all the way through the trimming >part as there is a right and wrong way to do it and now I have some extra >scrap for my experimentation efforts. Drop me a line if you have any >questions. > >Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR >13B in gestation mode > That sounds like a great idea. If you must spend more money for an effective tool, try a band saw with a fine-tooth blade. It worked fine for me, but I already owned the saw. If you know someone who owns one, ask to use it for an hour or so. Cutting them to length can be done with regular tin snips. I used the non-aviation type, cutting just a tad long from each edge toward the bend. It probably took a little longer on the scotchbrite wheel, but no deformed angles. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
Date: Jul 16, 2003
If you can make it to Starke County Indiana (OXI) , you will normally find some of the cheapest gas around. http://www.airnav.com/airport/KOXI Looking for a fuel stop enroute to Oshkosh someplace around Columbus, Ohio. Looking fro cheap gas as I won't be flyying the RV this time but a T-6 and cheap gas is kinda a necessity. Any suggesstions? Richard Bibb RV-4 N144KT T6-G N3518G ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
Date: Jul 16, 2003
If you stop at my house you can have it for what I pay, Something under $2 @ gal. I'm located 20 miles SE of canton, Ohio My Identifier is 5OH9, 2600' of the nicest grass there is. John Furey RV6A 330-592-4944 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
If you want to really impress them, put in a Mach meter :) And quote your speeds in km/hr - "Oh yeah, this thing really goes - it cruises at 320". I came to the same conclusion you did about where to put the OAT probe - mine will go in the under wing NACA scoop. I still expect there may be some error when sitting on the ground on a sunny day, as the ramp typically warms up above ambient temperatures due to the sun hitting it, and it probably warms up the air close to the ground. I really don't expect hot/high T/O performance is going to be a problem, unless I deliberately go into some stupidly short strip, or some place with crazy obstacles. Of course the hot/high performance will be greatly decreased compared to std day/sea level, but it should still be very acceptable. Take care, Kevin > > >Hey Kevin, that's some really interesting stuff...I had NO idea that >ram rise could amount to several degrees in an RV, I would have >guessed it would be too small to measure! I'll add that to my list >of things to impress spam can pilots..."yeah, she flies so fast I >have to subtract several degrees from the OAT reading because the >probe heats up so much..!" Try THAT in your Cessna 150! He he... > >So...where would you recommend putting the OAT probe on an -8 or >-8A? I was planning to put it in the NACA vent in the lower right >wing (or duct connected to it). My thinking was that way it would >be shaded, but not enclosed within the structure such that it would >heat up excessively when sitting on the ramp in the sun. And it >would not be affected in flight by heat from the exhaust or engine. >Seems to me that putting it in the wing root fairing for example >would probly work great in flight, but when sitting on the ramp >wondering what your density altitude performance is going to be for >that hot/high takeoff, the probe may be reading much higher than the >real air temp due to the air space within the fairing heating up. >Whereas if exposed to the open air in the lower NACA vent it should >be more accurate, at least on the ground?? > >Where are you putting it on your airplane? > >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D painting...actually still sanding hi-build primer, those >pinholes NEVER DIE!! > > >From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com> >Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > > >> >>I recently coorresponded with Ed Z at Sensenich about a prop re-pitch in the >>wake of horsepower increase and airframe clean-up efforts, and as part of the >>data collection for Ed's advice, I finally realized the magnitude of the temp >>error introduced by placing the OAT probe in the NACA duct on the -6A. The >>erroneously high readings we get from this location have been >>mentioned before, >>and anyone who was still building when this was first discussed probably saw >>trouble coming and placed their probe in a wing root or other >>shaded location, >>out of the way of hot air leaking from the engine compartment. I >>was finished >>building by then, so my probe has stayed where it was. By comparing the >>reading I get when the airplane is first powered up with the OAT >>readings obtained >>at low-altitude cruise, I was shocked to see a difference of 6 - 7 degrees C. >> Correcting the TAS calculations for this error is not really my >>main concern >>here. What this tells me is that the outside air I am drawing into my >>cockpit for ventilation and "free air-conditioning" at altitude is >>about 13 degrees >>F warmer than what should be available for this purpose. No wonder >>I start to >>swelter in the RV cockpit by about 3500 MSL when I let down at the Outer >>Banks. It's not just the humidity that's the problem! My cockpit >>is being fed >>warm air when cool is available at other pick-off points. > > >>Wonder if others have noticed this much extra heating and where else we can >>cut NACA vents to get away from the unwanted heat. One experiiment >>I have yet >>to do is fly with the fuselage/cowling joints taped to stop the leakage and >>recheck the temps I get. >> >>-Bill B > >Just pondering - Bill figures the high OAT indications are telling >him that the air coming into the NACA scoop is warmer than ambient. >Perhaps it is, but I'm not sure why that would be (other than the ram >temperature rise, which I'll discuss later). I wonder if what it >really means is that the temp probe indications are affected by the >temperature on the back side of the probe - i.e. the cockpit. The >air in the cockpit is often quite a bit warmer than ambient due to >the green house effect, so perhaps this is what we are seeing. Or >maybe not. > >Note: there is a bit of ram rise at play here too. The maximum >amount of ram rise in deg C is equal to TAS >2/7592, where the TAS is >in kt. So, if we are at 170 kt TAS, the max amount of ram rise would >be 3.8 deg C. Our temperature probes don't recover the full amount >of the ram rise though - the probe recovery factor is probably >somewhere between 0.7 and 1, so the actual amount of ram rise at this >condition is likely between 2.6 and 3.8 deg C. > >So, depending on whether Bill has accounted for the ram rise or not, >the amount of error might not be quite as much as he reported. >However, it is still an error, and it makes sense to not put OAT >probes in NACA scoops. > >-- >Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) >Ottawa, Canada >http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bartrim, Todd" <sbartrim(at)mail.canfor.ca>
Subject: Nelson Flightfest 2003 Sept 6-7, 2003
Date: Jul 16, 2003
I'd like to add that recently, Nelson which is another lakeside airport, was threatened with closure much the same way as Meigs, however city council listened to the many letters of support for the airport and kept it open for at least another year. This would be a good opportunity to show them that it is valuable resource and source of tourist revenue. As I expect to be flying and have test hours flown off by then, I plan to attend. Hope to see some of you there! S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B RX-9endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "Imagination is more important than knowledge" -Albert Einstein > -----Original Message----- > From: Terence Gannon [SMTP:terence.gannon(at)telus.net] > Sent: Wednesday, July 09, 2003 10:58 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Nelson Flightfest 2003 Sept 6-7, 2003 > > > For those of you that might still be in the area the weekend after Van's > Homecoming, this is an event you might consider putting on your fly-in > calendar and taking in. Looks like a lot of fun, and a beautiful > location in the Kootenays, in British Columbia. Great accommodation and > amenities are all within walking distance of the airport. Here's the > link; > > http://www.flynorth.com/nelson.html > > There's a link at the bottom of the page if you have any additional > questions. Hope to see you there!! Cheers. > > RE: RV-List: Nelson Flightfest 2003 Sept 6-7, 2003 I'd like to add that recently, Nelson which is another lakeside airport, was threatened with closure much the same way as Meigs, however city council listened to the many letters of support for the airport and kept it open for at least another year. This would be a good opportunity to show them that it is valuable resource and source of tourist revenue. As I expect to be flying and have test hours flown off by then, I plan to attend. Hope to see some of you there! S. Todd Bartrim Turbo 13B RX-9endurance C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm Imagination is more important than knowledge -Albert Einstein -----Original Message----- From: Terence Gannon [SMTP:terence.gannon(at)telus.net] Subject: RV-List: Nelson Flightfest 2003 Sept 6-7, 2003 -- RV-List message posted by: Terence Gannon terence.gannon(at)telus.net For those of you that might still be in the area the weekend after Van's Homecoming, this is an event you might consider putting on your fly-in calendar and taking in. Looks like a lot of fun, and a beautiful location in the Kootenays, in British Columbia. Great accommodation and amenities are all within walking distance of the airport. Here's the link; http://www.flynorth.com/nelson.html There's a link at the bottom of the page if you have any additional questions. Hope to see you there!! Cheers. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Nielsen" <mark.nielsen@fiedler-lp.com>
Subject: RE: Garmin 196 in panel
Date: Jul 16, 2003
> > >Has anyone mounted a Garmin 196 IN the panel? I plan on doing so and >would >appreciate any info. > > Don, I recently completed a panel re-build that included a Garmin 196 mounted in the panel. I disassembled the yoke mount that came with the 196 and used the plastic bracket (from the yoke mount) as a holder for the 196. I made a U-bracket out of 0.040" aluminum (about 2.5" wide) and riveted it to the back side of panel. The plastic holder was attached to the U-bracket with screws. The U-bracket was bent so that the screen of the 196 would be perpendicular to my line of sight. I used a full-sized layout of my panel and a small mirror to determine the bend angles for the U-bracket. The 196 is inserted into the plastic holder through the panel cut-out. To remove the 196, I reach behind the panel and pull on the holder release lever. For power, I cut the cigarette lighter power cord and installed a plug that plugs into a power jack mounted on the instrument panel support bracket. Mark Nielsen RV-6, 850 hrs. Green Bay, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: carb repair vs. Ellison TBI
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com>
Thanks George. Dave ----------------------------------------------- Any opinions, experience and/or info? Thanks, ------------------------------------------------- Hi David I am not an expert on this topic but have not seen any other replies so will take a stab at it. My aircraft is 0-320 with carburetor and also has a little stumble when power is slowly applied and about the 1500 - 1700 RPM range. Only happens occasionally, generally when leveling off from a descent. It is over before you have time to do anything but skip a single heartbeat. I have been told that this occurs at the carburetor change-over point between idle and main jet and is not uncommon. I talked to Lycoming rep. at Arlington and he suggested two things (1) experiment with linkage on accelerator pump if it has different holes on the linkage (2) check idle mixture for 30 RPM rise at idle cut-off. Good Luck George McNutt Langley, B.C. 6-A ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com>
I ran into the higher than normal temps in the NACA duct too. Even with a tight, honeycomb cowl. Because I was setting up to do some prop testing I needed to get accurate air temps. First the old analog gage had to go. The scale was so coarse you'd be lucky to read it within 5 degrees. The gage I went with is a Davtron 655. It's a digital volt meter, outside air temp in F or C, it ties into the encoder and gives you pressure altitude and density altitude. A little pricey, but what the heck it's in the name of science :-) The techs at Davtron told me the probe has to be 4 feet from the fuselage to get an accurate reading. They told me that Cessna tried mounting the probe on top of the windshield and couldn't understand why the readings wouldn't match the readings from the test probe out in the wing tip. They moved the probe away from the fuselage and the readings agreed. I mounted the probe in the aileron belcrank inspection plate. It works great out there. For now it sticks out in the breeze. Once the prop testing is done it's going to be remounted with a delrin mount I turned up so only about 1/4" will be exposed (gotta reduce that drag). Dave RV-6 the "Silver Turtle" The need for (more) speed----> From: "aronsond" <aronsond(at)pacbell.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... What is a good source for OAT sensors (12v). Dave aronson RV4 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > > I have been told that temperature probes exposed to high speed air flow read > HIGH due to friction of the air across the probe. > > Cy Galley > Editor, EAA Safety Programs > cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > How can so much heated air come out of the side of the cowl and into the > > NACA duct??? I can imagine a lot of things but not this. > > > > > > > > > >I recently coorresponded with Ed Z at Sensenich about a prop re-pitch in > the > > >wake of horsepower increase and airframe clean-up efforts, and as part of > the > > >data collection for Ed's advice, I finally realized the magnitude of the > temp > > >error introduced by placing the OAT probe in the NACA duct on the -6A. > The > > >erroneously high readings we get from this location have been mentioned > > >before, > > >and anyone who was still building when this was first discussed probably > saw > > >trouble coming and placed their probe in a wing root or other shaded > > location, > > >out of the way of hot air leaking from the engine compartment. I was > > finished > > >building by then, so my probe has stayed where it was. By comparing the > > >reading I get when the airplane is first powered up with the OAT readings > > >obtained > > >at low-altitude cruise, I was shocked to see a difference of 6 - 7 > degrees C. > > > Correcting the TAS calculations for this error is not really my main > concern > > >here. What this tells me is that the outside air I am drawing into my > > >cockpit for ventilation and "free air-conditioning" at altitude is about > 13 > > >degrees > > >F warmer than what should be available for this purpose. No wonder I > > start to > > >swelter in the RV cockpit by about 3500 MSL when I let down at the Outer > > >Banks. It's not just the humidity that's the problem! My cockpit is > being > > >fed > > >warm air when cool is available at other pick-off points. > > > > > >Wonder if others have noticed this much extra heating and where else we > can > > >cut NACA vents to get away from the unwanted heat. One experiiment I > have > > yet > > >to do is fly with the fuselage/cowling joints taped to stop the leakage > and > > >recheck the temps I get. > > > > > >-Bill B > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > Eng dept 305 > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
I put the probe in one of the wing inspection plates under the right wing. Small hole drilled with the probe exposed and glued in. Seems to be pretty accurate. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 102 hrs Race #87 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV 4 parts for sale
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Fellow Listers I have a friend who has a RV-4 dynafocal motor mount and gear legs, the short ones, with wood/fiberglas stiffeners, which he will give away to a good home if anyone has a use for them. Please reply to me off list. Thanks Doug Weiler dougweil(at)pressenter.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Webster" <twebste(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
Date: Jul 16, 2003
Check out Madison County airport (UYF) just north of London, Ohio. They are usually the lowest price for 100LL in the Columbus area. They had 80 octane, but I think it is gone now. Madison Co. is located about 25 miles west of Columbus about 3 miles south of Interstate 70. Tom Webster RV-7A >From: "Richard Bibb" <richard.bibb(at)verizon.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:53:37 -0400 > > >Looking for a fuel stop enroute to Oshkosh someplace around Columbus, Ohio. >Looking fro cheap gas as I won't be flyying the RV this time but a T-6 and >cheap gas is kinda a necessity. > >Any suggesstions? > >Richard Bibb >RV-4 N144KT >T6-G N3518G > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Fw: Van's Request for Interest in Purchasing Finished Fuel Tanks
for 7/8/9 Kits
Date: Jul 16, 2003
A local RV-7A builder and buddy of mine asked that I forward this along to the Matronics list. I imagine Van's would sell "QB tanks" like crazy if they offered them. Van's would still have to price the tanks close to or less than what Evan Johnson of Evan Aviation charges: http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/ Pretty sure his price is $975 for both tanks. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linas Danilevicius" <rv7a(at)sbcglobal.net> Subject: [SoCAL-RVlist] Van's Request for Interest in Purchasing Finished Fuel Tanks for 7/8/9 Kits > In the current issue of Van's RVATOR they posed a question to all builders. They want us to drop them an e-mail letting them know if anyone would be interested in buying "Finished Fuel Tanks." Since the kits are now match hole drilled, they feel they can now offer this service if there is interest. I say with a resounding YES! Anyone interested in this option or anyone who would have bought them finished had it been available should respond YES. Based on our input they will make their decision to manufacture or not. Thanks....Linas ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net>
Subject: Re: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Check Green County (Dayton), I think I paid about 2.40 a gallon there this weekend. Jim James Cimino RV-8 SN 80039 100+ Hours 570-842-4057 http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Webster" <twebste(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop > > Check out Madison County airport (UYF) just north of London, Ohio. > They are usually the lowest price for 100LL in the Columbus area. > They had 80 octane, but I think it is gone now. > Madison Co. is located about 25 miles west of Columbus about 3 miles south > of Interstate 70. > Tom Webster > RV-7A > > > >From: "Richard Bibb" <richard.bibb(at)verizon.net> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: > >Subject: RV-List: Ohio Oshkosh Fuel Stop > >Date: Wed, 16 Jul 2003 14:53:37 -0400 > > > > > >Looking for a fuel stop enroute to Oshkosh someplace around Columbus, Ohio. > >Looking fro cheap gas as I won't be flyying the RV this time but a T-6 and > >cheap gas is kinda a necessity. > > > >Any suggesstions? > > > >Richard Bibb > >RV-4 N144KT > >T6-G N3518G > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com>
Subject: Cowl Installation
Date: Jul 16, 2003
The cowl's only support is from the hinges at the aft end (connection to the firewall). The forward end is 'free floating'. At least that's the way the RV-6 works... -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vincent Welch Subject: RV-List: Cowl Installation --> Hey Guys, I just started looking at the installation for my RV-8A cowl. I don't see anything that supports it at the front end near the prop hub. Does it just rest on the baffle seal fabric? The plans show the front of the cowl being located 1/8" higher than the prop hub, what holds it up there? Vince Welch direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 16, 2003
From: Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: SL-40 vs xcom760
Lucky, I just received my SL40 yesterday. According to the SL40 owners manual, you may activate just the pilot's mic, just the copilot's mic, or both from the front panel. You can separately adjust the squelch for either mic, also from the front panel, and that should take care of unwanted noise. You need to install a separate switch to select between the intercom function and the monitoring of a secondary frequency. I bought the SL40 because John Stark said that is a higher quality unit than the xcom 760. Leland Collins RV9A wiring " 2. Both pilot and copilot mics are opened when anyone keys the PTT circuit. Almost all modern intercoms activate only the mic of the person speaking to eliminate unwanted noise." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Wing Kit Questions
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Ditto. I am going with the Tru-Trak for the reason cited below (solid state, no moving parts, etc..) but also because they simply have more options available. If the NASDAQ will improve I'll be able to buy the DigiFlight 100 which is upgradeable to the two axis version with a software load and servo. Another thing to consider is the designer of the Navaid is no longer associated with that product (somebody correct me if I am wrong on this) but the TruTrak stuff is still under development and since it is solid state and not mechanical, features can be added through a serial port instead of having to be fabricated from parts. You don't have to decide on an autopilot right off the bat. The TruTrak would be pretty easy to retrofit and I left the bottom skins off of the wings until I was ready to mount them to the fuse and I was sure that I had everything in there that I wanted. If you go with TruTrak you can just buy the servo and decide which 'head' you want to get later. I was also able to get just the install kit for the pitch servo from them and put it in even though I don't plan to upgrade to 2-axis until later. Now all I have to do is bolt the servo in and plug in the wire when the time comes to upgrade. I am going with the GRT EIS-4000 for all the reasons that Mark cites, but I am going with the EI fuel gauge. I decided that I could live without the analog representations of all the engine data, but in talking with a guy who has a GRT EIS on his ultralight I decided that I wanted a separate gauge for fuel level. Besides that'll give me a couple of extra inputs on the EIS for other stuff. And that EI fuel gauge is really cool looking. :-) Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: <czechsix(at)juno.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Kit Questions > > > Hi Scott, > > First let me say I'm not flying quite yet, so my advice is not from first-hand in-flight experience with the specific hardware in question here, but instead based on a lot of research into the options, the experience of others, and my perspective as an avionics systems engineer: > > 1) For the wing leveler, I bought the Trutrak Digitrak unit. It's only a little more expensive than the Navaid, weighs about the same for the whole system, and has two big advantages over the Navaid: the control head is solid state, and the servo has no clutch. Bottom line is (all other things being equal) the Digitrak will last a lot longer (not as many moving parts to wear out) and operate with greater precision. I know some of the guys using Navaids are happy as a clam with these units and this is not meant as an insult to them, I'm glad they're happy with it. But I know others have had some trouble getting them set up to work well, and I have a friend with one in his Long-EZ who wants to replace it with a Digitrak. The reason we put digital solid-state autopilots in bizjets, fighters and airliners isn't just because it sounds sexy and high-tech and costs a lot of money, it's because there are decided advantages that have made spinning gyros obsolete. The Navaid us! > ed to offer a good value in that it offered acceptable performance and was the only thing available in it's price range that would keep you right side up and more or less on course. Now you can get superior technology at a very competitive price...the Digitrak. > > 2) I have an EIS-4000 because of the outstanding reputation from its many users, and my firsthand experience with Greg Toman at Grand Rapids who has been a pleasure to work with and has incorporated some custom features in my unit at no extra cost. I think this unit is the best thing going in the "bang-for-the-buck" category of digital engine monitors. It's capable, easy to set up and use, light, inexpensive, reliable, and takes up minimal panel space. The only disadvantage is that it doesn't have gauge displays like the bigger, pricier monitors....they are easier for the eye to read and spot trends at a glance than digital characters alone, but the importance of this is not as great when you incorporate the limit alarms that the EIS features. The fancier displays are nice but not necessary. > > Fuel probes: the EIS-4000 will work with almost any fuel probe out there, ask Greg Toman if you want to be sure before buying. I installed Van's float sensors but then Greg started offering some nice Princeton capacitive probes that are custom bent and fit for RV tanks, so I bought them to retrofit before I put the wings on for final assembly. Whatever you do I'd go capacitive...it's not much more expensive and it should mean you'll never have to service it (as opposed to the floats, where more than one RV'er has had to pull them out and change them...not a fun job). > > Bottom line is if you want to spend more time flying and less time fixing things, and save weight and increase reliability, go solid state and eliminate mechanical moving parts wherever possible. This applies to autopilots, fuel probes, vacuum pumps (horrors!), gyros of any kind (I've got a Dynon, and no spinning masses of any sort in my panel), engine instruments, etc. The only exception to this rule that I can think of is for a prop...the rule still applies in that a fixed-pitch prop (no moving parts) is more reliable than a constant-speed, but unlike the other things I've listed, the constant-speed prop has a decided performance *advantage* in it's favor. I've got fixed-pitch now, but C.S. is in the long-term plans... > > Just my humble $.02, no offense to any vacuum-sucking, steam-gauge-loving, clutch-clinging, spinning-mass aficionados out there : ) > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D painting... > > Subject: RV-List: Wing Kit Questions > From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> > > > I just got the great news that my wing kit shipped today, and I am need to make > some "wing" decisions. I would appreciate any feedback on the following: > > 1) Wing-leveler (Navaid vs. Trutrak) - Based on bang for the buck (one of my most > dominant considerations), everything I have read in the archives sounds like > the Navaid is a better choice. I do plan to fly IFR, so I will definitely get > one or the other. I would appreciate hearing from anyone that strongly supports > the Trutrak as a better option. > > 2) Guages (fuel monitoring) - Based on the reputation of some of the Vans-labeled > guages (and installation benefits), I think I will be going with the Grand > Rapids EIS-4000 for engine monitoring. I would appreciate hearing any "dislikes" > people might have with the Grand Rapids (haven't heard many). Also what type > of fuel senders they require (Van's resistive, Van's capacitance, other). > FYI...the fancy ones (Vision, ACS, etc.) are out of my price range. > > Thanks, > Scott > 7A > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
In a message dated 07/16/2003 1:19:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HCRV6(at)aol.com writes: > Since it's apparent that the NACA duct is not a good place to locate OAT > probes, what kind of success has anyone had with other locations? Several > people > have mentioned the wing root, but it seems to me that if there is enough > airflow to give reasonable response time that hot air leaking from the cowl > will > still be a factor, true or am I missing something (again)? Anyone out there > got > any real data on that location? > One point I hoped to address in starting this thread was whether the fuselage side is the proper location for a cool air inlet in the first place. If this 6 or 7 degree Celsius rise is real, this does not seem like the best place to pick off airflow for cockpit ventilation! I think if I had it to do over, I'd go with an underwing NACA scoop of some sort as a few others have done. -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net>
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
How about the bottom of the wingroot fairing, a couple inches aft of the LE? > > One point I hoped to address in starting this thread was whether the fuselage > side is the proper location for a cool air inlet in the first place. If this > 6 or 7 degree Celsius rise is real, this does not seem like the best place to > pick off airflow for cockpit ventilation! I think if I had it to do over, > I'd go with an underwing NACA scoop of some sort as a few others have done. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: "Vern Darley,II" <vern(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: submission
Product Review-Affordable Panels Introduces their Modular Panel for the RV-6 (part 1) by Vern Darley (vern(at)mindspring.com) As my RV-6A project has progressed, I've been bugging Fabian Lefler , owner of Affordable Panels to include the RV-6 family in his product line. Catching him a a moment of weakness,he agreed to if I would test the fit and finish, since he did not have an RV-6 available to work with. So,I sent him a ton of measurements and sketches,talked a lot via e-mail and phone, and these photos show what he sent back to me-an incredibly beautiful custom precision panel. Fabian's kits are beautiful and complete. When I cut the box open, I was delighted to see all the attention to detail. Fabian uses the latest technology to cut these panels. Besides the beautifully crafted metal parts, Fabian had included very detailed instructions and color photos, all the screws,rivets, and nutplates, and even several larger clecos to help in the installation process. Each part was carefully labeled. As I clamped it into place, I felt a tremendous sense of satisfaction knowing that between the Vans prebuilt spars and this panel, my old '93 era slowbuild kit would have at least two perfect parts. Mine was delivered with a burnished finish designed to hold the paint/powder coating for many years of service. In fact,the natural aluminum finish is so beautiful,I've been tempted to clear-coat it! When I get this panel decked out with my instruments, radios, and switches, it will look as good or better than many $30,000 custom panels you occasionally see. As the install progresses,I hope to update this article with more photos. In the meantime, my fellow RV-6 builders now have another choice for their panels. Contact Fabian at ,or look at his great website <http://www.affordablepanels.com/> for more information. Vern Darley Falcon RV Squadron Peachtree City, GA RV-6A N680V ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Cowl Installation
Date: Jul 15, 2003
Vince, It becomes very rigid structure when the top-half is pinned to the bottom-half through the side hinges and the whole assembly is pinned to the firewall with the hinges that go around it. The top-half is also joined to the bottom-half at the front at the air inlets. I didn't use the extruded hinges there, as supplied in the kit, (RV-6) as called for in the plans.- Instead I riveted and epoxied two .063" plates to the top-half protruding down into the bottom-half with three #8 plate-nuts installed per side with matching counter-sunk holes in the bottom-half for FH #8 screws. The holes in the bottom-half are CSK'd for #8 Tinnerman washers. Because of the limited space to get a screw-driver in the inlets, I use an angle drive to install the screws. That arrangement contributes greatly to the rigidity. (I have seen broken hinge eyes there, hence my mods.) Besides, there is no mounting arrangement at the front to secure it to the airframe and it is certainly not possible to mount it to any part of the engine which has to clear the cowl by at least 1/2" all around to prevent contact due to flight load deflections and the "Wet Dog Shakes" at start-up and shut-down. Cheers!!-----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: RV-6 Damaged Rudder Tailing edge.
Date: Jul 17, 2003
My rudder was damaged at a recent flyin. I suspect a golf cart, but am not certain of that, besides the point is that however it happened, it now needs repair. So for you metal worker experts here is what I am considering. Damage. The very trailing edge of the rudder was creased/displaced at two points approx 8" apart (there is a rudder rib between the two bends) with the lower point approx 8" above the rudder position light opening. The upper bend was a crease which could be pushed straight with the fingers. However the stresses on the lower damage area caused the skin to rupture right on the tailing edge radius. . By pushing with the fingers I have the trailing edge pretty straight. I am considering three alternatives and would appreciate comments: After trimming away the ragged damaged area (area is a bit smaller than your little finger nail) where the skin ruptured, I could: 1. Bend and trim a piece of 0.016 sheet 2024T3 into a broad "V" shape and use the rear position light opening to push it into the tail such that the vertex of the "V" sits in the curve of the trailing edge. Then to put some rivets through the skin to the patch metal. The "V" would run above the top crease and below the bottom crease. 2. Same idea as #1, but instead of a "V" of sheet metal, use a small aluminum tube of appropriate diameter that would fit the curvature of the trailing edge and rivet it in there. 3. Replace rudder skin or portion of it. Any suggestion appreciated Thanks in advance Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
"vansairforce"
Subject: Speaking of Paint Schemes...
Date: Jul 17, 2003
I just got a photo of Ken Balch's soon-to-be major award winning RV-8 with her new paint job! You gotta see this! http://www.vondane.com/rv8a/ -Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Greetings all: My newly completed RV-4 now has about 45 hours on it. It is unpainted but hopefully will have a striking paint job completed this fall. BUT... I hope to come up with a good method to prevent the rear canopy skirt from scratching the paint on the top rear of the fuselage. Maybe I was too successful in getting a tight seal around the rear canopy skirt. Currently I have it lined with Van's UHMW plastic tape and also some small foam tape, but it still rubs and scratches the fuselage. I have seem folks put tape on the fuselage itself to prevent scratches but it doesn't look real great when the canopy open. It would be nice if there existed some thin, flexible, durable, clear U-channel to put on the skirt itself. Anyone got any great ideas? Thanks Doug Weiler N722DW, flies like a dream ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
Try UHMW tape on both parts. > >Greetings all: > >My newly completed RV-4 now has about 45 hours on it. It is unpainted but >hopefully will have a striking paint job completed this fall. BUT... I hope >to come up with a good method to prevent the rear canopy skirt from >scratching the paint on the top rear of the fuselage. Maybe I was too >successful in getting a tight seal around the rear canopy skirt. Currently >I have it lined with Van's UHMW plastic tape and also some small foam tape, >but it still rubs and scratches the fuselage. I have seem folks put tape on >the fuselage itself to prevent scratches but it doesn't look real great when >the canopy open. It would be nice if there existed some thin, flexible, >durable, clear U-channel to put on the skirt itself. > >Anyone got any great ideas? > >Thanks > >Doug Weiler >N722DW, flies like a dream > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dynon D-10
Hey Fellas, I just received my Dynon EFIS via UPS on Wednesday (#287). What a fantastic piece of engineering!!. I ordered the aux battery feature, and as I unpacked the unit I couldn't find the Battery. As I was about to call and ask, I pushed the left button and the thing lit up! Turns out they even engineered the Lithium Battery into the unit! Did you know it also has space on the screen, via toggle, to download custom checklists for you and your aircraft? Made a call to Paul, on of Dynon's designers / engineers to praise their work and asked about the Angle of Attack and the OAT modes. Both of these interface with the present unit, but the Pitot and the OAT sensors are not quite ready for distribution. They should be available to us in the next few months. So, if your considering this option instead of traditional (or, like me, in tandem with Airspeed and Altimeter), you will be totally happy with this unit. I'm anxious to see how they do on their next projects (GPS, Engine Monitor, Autopilot). I have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer... Ron Patterson RV-4 N8ZD (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
I spoke with Dynon at Arlington concerning the probe since I'm working on my wings. I was concered about difficulty in mounting the probe after the wing was completed. They told me that the probe is/will be designed to use the pitot mount from Gretz aero. Warren Gretz confirmed this and said the mount for the PH502-12CR pitot is the one that Dynon is designing around. Ken > >Hey Fellas, > >I just received my Dynon EFIS via UPS on Wednesday (#287). What a fantastic piece of engineering!!. I ordered the aux battery feature, and as I unpacked the unit I couldn't find the Battery. As I was about to call and ask, I pushed the left button and the thing lit up! >Turns out they even engineered the Lithium Battery into the unit! > >Did you know it also has space on the screen, via toggle, to download custom checklists for you and your aircraft? > >Made a call to Paul, on of Dynon's designers / engineers to praise their work and asked about the Angle of Attack and the OAT modes. Both of these interface with the present unit, but the Pitot and the OAT sensors are not quite ready for distribution. They should be available to us in the next few months. > >So, if your considering this option instead of traditional (or, like me, in tandem with Airspeed and Altimeter), you will be totally happy with this unit. I'm anxious to see how they do on their next projects (GPS, Engine Monitor, Autopilot). > >I have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer... >Ron Patterson >RV-4 >N8ZD (reserved) > > The Internet Truckstop The first and largest freight matching service on the Intenet ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Re: of OAT probes and NACA ducts...
Date: Jul 17, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Phillips" <ripsteel(at)edge.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: of OAT probes and NACA ducts... > > How about the bottom of the wingroot fairing, a couple inches aft of the LE? > > > > > One point I hoped to address in starting this thread was whether the fuselage > > side is the proper location for a cool air inlet in the first place. If this > > 6 or 7 degree Celsius rise is real, this does not seem like the best place to > > pick off airflow for cockpit ventilation! I think if I had it to do over, > > I'd go with an underwing NACA scoop of some sort as a few others have done. I would recommend staying several feet away from the fuselage as has been suggested by others. I tried the NACA vent location and found it to be useless. I then mounted the probe in the rib that divides the bellcrank inspection panel and drilled a hole in the cover to accommodate it. One could just as easily mount it proximate to the opening. The location works very well with the exception that when parked on a sun heated ramp it will tend to read higher than the local ASOS. Otherwise it can indicate even small temp shifts in the atmosphere. I believe that many performance calculations use "total temperature" which takes into account the heating due to motion. If that is so, then no protective measures are needed. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
Date: Jul 17, 2003
I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Patterson" <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Dynon D-10 > > Hey Fellas, > > I just received my Dynon EFIS via UPS on Wednesday (#287). What a fantastic piece of engineering!!. I ordered the aux battery feature, and as I unpacked the unit I couldn't find the Battery. As I was about to call and ask, I pushed the left button and the thing lit up! > Turns out they even engineered the Lithium Battery into the unit! > > Did you know it also has space on the screen, via toggle, to download custom checklists for you and your aircraft? > > Made a call to Paul, on of Dynon's designers / engineers to praise their work and asked about the Angle of Attack and the OAT modes. Both of these interface with the present unit, but the Pitot and the OAT sensors are not quite ready for distribution. They should be available to us in the next few months. > > So, if your considering this option instead of traditional (or, like me, in tandem with Airspeed and Altimeter), you will be totally happy with this unit. I'm anxious to see how they do on their next projects (GPS, Engine Monitor, Autopilot). > > I have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer... > Ron Patterson > RV-4 > N8ZD (reserved) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com>
Anybody know where I can get a panel for my RV-4 that is custom made? I have most of the avionics and need a fabricated unit to bolt up my radios to and plug in the wiring. (also want a pre-wired package prepared for me by an expert). Ron Patterson scc_ron(at)yahoo.com 510-421-2316 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
Paul Besing wrote: > > > I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start > flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument > (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary > attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds. Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground is...........useless. I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one. But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Mine arrived today also!!! I agree with all you say!!!! what a machine!!!! I can't wait to get it installed!!! Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal BTW The pink panther has a new home in Sioux Falls SD and I bought an IFR -4 from Terry Stern in North Central MN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Patterson" <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Dynon D-10 > > Hey Fellas, > > I just received my Dynon EFIS via UPS on Wednesday (#287). What a fantastic piece of engineering!!. I ordered the aux battery feature, and as I unpacked the unit I couldn't find the Battery. As I was about to call and ask, I pushed the left button and the thing lit up! > Turns out they even engineered the Lithium Battery into the unit! > > Did you know it also has space on the screen, via toggle, to download custom checklists for you and your aircraft? > > Made a call to Paul, on of Dynon's designers / engineers to praise their work and asked about the Angle of Attack and the OAT modes. Both of these interface with the present unit, but the Pitot and the OAT sensors are not quite ready for distribution. They should be available to us in the next few months. > > So, if your considering this option instead of traditional (or, like me, in tandem with Airspeed and Altimeter), you will be totally happy with this unit. I'm anxious to see how they do on their next projects (GPS, Engine Monitor, Autopilot). > > I have no affiliation with the company, just a satisfied customer... > Ron Patterson > RV-4 > N8ZD (reserved) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted
Date: Jul 17, 2003
I put some RV p-40 pics at http://hometown.aol.com/rv8ter/page2.html >From: "Aaron Zeff" <aaronzeff(at)hotmail.com> >To: luckymacy(at)hotmail.com >Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 20:41:12 +0000 > >Lucky, > >How can I get a view of the P-40 scheme RV-8? > >Thanks, >Naked RV-8 > > >>From: "lucky macy" <> >>Reply-To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com >>To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com >>Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted >>Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 12:32:50 -0400 >> >>http://hometown.aol.com/rv8ter/myhomepage/index.html >> >>here's the picture. They were all 3 painted a little differently on >>purpose >>as they were still experimenting with details like the different sizes of >>Stars and Bars. I like the closest one's Stars and Bars best. The others >>are too small, I think. All of these planes have been updated and look a >>little better now and I think I have varous updated pictures though maybe >>not in formation like this. >> >>There's also a flying tigers P-40 with shark teeth scheme in the mix too. >> >>I'll post a few more if I find some good ones. >> >> >> >From: "Danny King" <danny.king(at)charter.net> >> >Reply-To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com >> >To: >> >Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted >> >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 08:25:30 -0500 >> > >> >Lucky, >> >I'd like to see that picture too! >> >Danny >> >danny.king(at)charter.net >> > ----- Original Message ----- >> > From: lucky macy >> > To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com ; azeff(at)priorityparking.com >> > Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 5:52 AM >> > Subject: Re: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted >> > >> > >> > Here's three 8's in a WWII D-day invasion scheme flying formation. >> >There is >> > a "squadron" of them around the PA/MD area. Maybe up to 8 or 9 >>painted >> >this >> > way now? >> > >> > Anyway, they look very good. RV8 is a poor man's P-51. No Axis paint >> > schemes yet but I'd be tempted with all the *allied targets* flying >> >around >> > here :-) >> > >> > >> > >From: "azeff2000" <azeff(at)priorityparking.com> >> > >Reply-To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com >> > >To: rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com >> > >Subject: [rv8list] Paint Scheme Wanted >> > >Date: Thu, 17 Jul 2003 06:21:15 -0000 >> > > >> > >Help! RV-8 Needs Paint. >> > > >> > >After building and flying my unpainted RV-8 for over 75 hours, I >> > >still haven't determened the appropriate scheme. I've untilized >> > >schemedesigners, friends, family, ect. From considering the P-40 to >> > >the F-4 Phantom I am still undecided. Any thoughts or ideas would >>be >> > >appreciated. Does any other builder have a scheme that they wish >> > >they did or should have done? Make my day!! >> > > >> > >Regards, >> > >A Naked RV-8 >> > > >> > > >> > >> > _________________________________________________________________ >> > >> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> > >> > ADVERTISEMENT >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits. >> > >> > IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO : >> > >> > rv8list-unsubscribe(at)egroups.com >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >> > >> > >> >>_________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> >>Control Hunger EZ with fast acting oral EZ Appetite Suppressant Spray >>from VitaminBoost.com. 1 Month Supply - 2oz., 80 sprays: $19.97. >>http://www.challengerone.com/t/l.asp?cid=2866&lp=ezappetite3.html >>http://us.click.yahoo.com/aSJFwB/XWXGAA/ySSFAA/1yWplB/TM >> >>Information exchange for builders of Vans Aircraft RV-8 kits. >> >>IF YOU WISH TO UNSUBSCRIBE, PLEASE SEND AN EMAIL TO : >> >>rv8list-unsubscribe(at)egroups.com >> >> >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: bruno <rv4(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function
From: Leland <Federigo(at)pacbell.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: SL-40 vs xcom760 Lucky, I just received my SL40 yesterday. According to the SL40 owners manual, you may activate just the pilot's mic, just the copilot's mic, or both from the front panel. You can separately adjust the squelch for either mic, also from the front panel, and that should take care of unwanted noise. You need to install a separate switch to select between the intercom function and the monitoring of a secondary frequency. I bought the SL40 because John Stark said that is a higher quality unit than the xcom 760. Leland Collins RV9A wiring ----------------------------------------------- Hello Leland I have a SL-40 installed in my RV-4 and I can used the intercom and the monitoring function without having a separate switch installed.I believe an avionics shop can take care of that.It works really good. I have no complaint with the intercom(I used a David Clark H-10-80)and it's flawless. Bruno ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Hi Listers Does anyone know of a source for either all metal lock nuts or drilled nuts with 5/16 X 18 threads for the carb studs on the bottom of the engine. I would prefer either one to regular nuts with locktite or jam nuts. thanks, Rick Fogerson RV3 finish Boise, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs
Date: Jul 17, 2003
Genuine Aircraft Hardware Co. http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com They sell an AN363 or MS21045-518 all metal lock nut...or at least it's in their products section. These guys seem to carry just about every aircraft fastener under the sun. Haven't ordered from them yet, but I'm sure I will someday when I need something funky or uncommon. (888) 247-2738 Good luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> Subject: RV-List: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs > > Hi Listers > Does anyone know of a source for either all metal lock nuts or drilled nuts with 5/16 X 18 threads for the carb studs on the bottom of the engine. I would prefer either one to regular nuts with locktite or jam nuts. > > thanks, > Rick Fogerson > RV3 finish > Boise, ID > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 17, 2003
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs
Sounds like a job for the hefty MSC catalog..... Or you can use the lighter weight on-line version... http://www.mscdirect.com/PDF.process?pdf=1885 gil in Tucson > >Hi Listers >Does anyone know of a source for either all metal lock nuts or drilled >nuts with 5/16 X 18 threads for the carb studs on the bottom of the >engine. I would prefer either one to regular nuts with locktite or jam nuts. > >thanks, >Rick Fogerson >RV3 finish >Boise, ID > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
> >Paul Besing wrote: >> >> >> I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start >> flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument >> (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary >> attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds. > > >Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the >Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them >unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground >is...........useless. > >I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though >is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when >subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the >Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one. >But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown >actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That >will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together. > >Sam Buchanan > I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial panel. If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed, altimeter and VSI. I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > > >Paul Besing wrote: > >> > >> > >> I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start > >> flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument > >> (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary > >> attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds. > > > > > >Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the > >Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them > >unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground > >is...........useless. > > > >I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though > >is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when > >subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the > >Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one. > >But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown > >actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That > >will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together. > > > >Sam Buchanan > > > I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with > the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a > cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is > really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS > fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial > panel. > > If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed, > altimeter and VSI. > > I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable > solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have > failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me. By "only flight instrument" I was referring to flying approaches (IMC or under the hood) using the Dynon as the only source of reference for flight information. Obviously the Dynon should have at least partial panel backup in actual IMC. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function
Date: Jul 18, 2003
Bruno, You wrote "I have a SL-40 installed in my RV-4 and I can used the intercom and the monitoring function without having a separate switch installed. I believe an avionics shop can take care of that." Am I to understand that this unit doesn't ordinarily support this functionality and that the OWNER MUST make a change to it first before it you can separate the intercom and standby frequency monitoring? If so, is this change in the instructions so the owner can do it themselves? thx, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2003
From: "Brad Benson" <brad@cds-inc.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
Hi Kevin, I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention a backup gyro (TC / T&B / AI / whatever) - was that intentional? I have my panel layout just about ready for cutting. Essentially, I used the Dynon to replace the attitude indicator and the gyro compass - the Dynon will be located in place of the attitude indicator and I'm putting the VOR head underneath where the gyro compass would have been. I kept the turn coordinator as a backup gyro "just in case", and kept the other instruments (ASI, altimeter, VSI) in the six pack as well for the same reason. I figure that what I have done is traded one liability (the vaccuum system & associated gyros) for a smaller one (the Dynon w/battery backup) and saved some weight at the same time. After factoring everything in (AOA, G-meter, etc.), it looks like this swap is a wash, cost-wise. Thanks! Brad "Sharpie" Benson RV6AQB underway... "Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" - http://www.notamd.com *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 7/18/2003 at 5:53 AM Kevin Horton wrote: >I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with >the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a >cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is >really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS >fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial >panel. > >If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed, >altimeter and VSI. > >I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable >solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have >failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me. >-- >Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) >Ottawa, Canada >http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil McLeod" <bedrock(at)theriver.com>
Subject: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function
Date: Jul 18, 2003
On my SL-40 you can select the intercom and monitor functions as it came from Stark. I cannot use both at the some time however. Neil McLeod -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of lucky macy Subject: Re: RV-List: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function Bruno, You wrote "I have a SL-40 installed in my RV-4 and I can used the intercom and the monitoring function without having a separate switch installed. I believe an avionics shop can take care of that." Am I to understand that this unit doesn't ordinarily support this functionality and that the OWNER MUST make a change to it first before it you can separate the intercom and standby frequency monitoring? If so, is this change in the instructions so the owner can do it themselves? thx, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2003
From: Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org>
Subject: Re: SL-40 Intercom/monitor function
lucky macy wrote: >Am I to understand that this unit doesn't ordinarily support this >functionality and that the OWNER MUST make a change to it first before it >you can separate the intercom and standby frequency monitoring? If so, is >this change in the instructions so the owner can do it themselves? > Here's the deal on the SL-40 intercom function and monitor function: Intercom: Activating the intercom requires pulling pin 12 to ground. This can be done with a switch on the panel (as shown in the installation manual, switch not supplied with SL-40 install kit), or by hard wiring pin 12 to ground in the harness (if you want the intercom ON all the time). Monitor: Activated by pressing the MON button on the front of the panel. De-activated by pressing MON again. There is no mention in either the Installation Manual or Users Guide of not being able to use Intercom and Monitor at the same time. All this and more can be found in the Installation Manual and Users Guide available on the UPS Aviation Technologies website. http://www.upsat.com/ I found the time spent reading the installation manuals and users guides answered all my questions about functions, features, and how to mount the hardware. Many manufacturers make both available to download in PDF format. Steve Allison SL-40 on the shelf, along with other panel hardware....time to make holes in the panel :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net>
Subject: Re: RV-Panel
Date: Jul 18, 2003
Ron, East Coast Avionics did a great job on my -8, Gulf Coast can do it too. Jim James Cimino RV-8 SN 80039 100+ Hours 570-842-4057 http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Patterson" <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> > > Anybody know where I can get a panel for my RV-4 that is custom made? I have most of the avionics and need a fabricated unit to bolt up my radios to and plug in the wiring. (also want a pre-wired package prepared for me by an expert). > > Ron Patterson > scc_ron(at)yahoo.com > 510-421-2316 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
I didn't mention backup gyro (TC, T&B or backup AI) because I thought the regs required a separate "rate of turn indicator", so it didn't need to be mentioned again. However, now that I read FAR 91.205(d)(3) more closely, I see that you could literally comply with the regs using the turn indicator function that is part of the Dynon display. The situation is the same in Canada. So, add turn coordinator, turn & bank or standby attitude indicator to the list in my first e-mail. And to be completely complete, add a magnetic compass too (although, practically speaking, GPS track is probably good enough). The bottom line is that you need to be able to fly partial panel if the Dynon dies. The regs don't require this, but common sense certainly does. So figure out what you need to fly partial panel, and make sure you have it if the Dynon dies. I will point out this weakness in the regs to the guys in Transport Canada who are responsible to update them. They work a few floors above me (Transport Canada has long recognized that the people in the upper floors of office towers are less likely to get out in the event of the major emergency. So, they put the people who do the really important work on the lower floors, giving the organization has the best chance of still being able to function following a major catastrophe. Senior management gets the upper floors, as the organization could continue to tick along just nicely without them. And the Minister of Transport is on the top floor. I'm almost at ground level.) Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > >Hi Kevin, > >I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention a backup gyro (TC / >T&B / AI / whatever) - was that intentional? > >I have my panel layout just about ready for cutting. Essentially, >I used the Dynon to replace the attitude indicator and the gyro >compass - the Dynon will be located in place of the attitude >indicator and I'm putting the VOR head underneath where the gyro >compass would have been. I kept the turn coordinator as a backup >gyro "just in case", and kept the other instruments (ASI, altimeter, >VSI) in the six pack as well for the same reason. > >I figure that what I have done is traded one liability (the vaccuum >system & associated gyros) for a smaller one (the Dynon w/battery >backup) and saved some weight at the same time. After factoring >everything in (AOA, G-meter, etc.), it looks like this swap is a >wash, cost-wise. > >Thanks! >Brad "Sharpie" Benson >RV6AQB underway... >"Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" - >http://www.notamd.com > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 7/18/2003 at 5:53 AM Kevin Horton wrote: > >>I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with >>the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a >>cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is >>really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS >>fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial >>panel. >> >>If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed, >>altimeter and VSI. >> >>I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable >>solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have >>failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me. >>-- >>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) >>Ottawa, Canada > >http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joshua Siler" <joshs(at)ninatek.com>
Subject: Dynon D-10
Date: Jul 18, 2003
Since by all accounts you need an autopilot to fly an RV IFR and maintain a reasonable workload, it seems like one of those turn-and-bank integrated autopilots would do double duty as a gyro backup quite well. Josh Siler RV-7 Emp -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10 I didn't mention backup gyro (TC, T&B or backup AI) because I thought the regs required a separate "rate of turn indicator", so it didn't need to be mentioned again. However, now that I read FAR 91.205(d)(3) more closely, I see that you could literally comply with the regs using the turn indicator function that is part of the Dynon display. The situation is the same in Canada. So, add turn coordinator, turn & bank or standby attitude indicator to the list in my first e-mail. And to be completely complete, add a magnetic compass too (although, practically speaking, GPS track is probably good enough). The bottom line is that you need to be able to fly partial panel if the Dynon dies. The regs don't require this, but common sense certainly does. So figure out what you need to fly partial panel, and make sure you have it if the Dynon dies. I will point out this weakness in the regs to the guys in Transport Canada who are responsible to update them. They work a few floors above me (Transport Canada has long recognized that the people in the upper floors of office towers are less likely to get out in the event of the major emergency. So, they put the people who do the really important work on the lower floors, giving the organization has the best chance of still being able to function following a major catastrophe. Senior management gets the upper floors, as the organization could continue to tick along just nicely without them. And the Minister of Transport is on the top floor. I'm almost at ground level.) Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > >Hi Kevin, > >I couldn't help but notice you didn't mention a backup gyro (TC / >T&B / AI / whatever) - was that intentional? > >I have my panel layout just about ready for cutting. Essentially, >I used the Dynon to replace the attitude indicator and the gyro >compass - the Dynon will be located in place of the attitude >indicator and I'm putting the VOR head underneath where the gyro >compass would have been. I kept the turn coordinator as a backup >gyro "just in case", and kept the other instruments (ASI, altimeter, >VSI) in the six pack as well for the same reason. > >I figure that what I have done is traded one liability (the vaccuum >system & associated gyros) for a smaller one (the Dynon w/battery >backup) and saved some weight at the same time. After factoring >everything in (AOA, G-meter, etc.), it looks like this swap is a >wash, cost-wise. > >Thanks! >Brad "Sharpie" Benson >RV6AQB underway... >"Please buy my software, it's funding my RV6A project!" - >http://www.notamd.com > >*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** > >On 7/18/2003 at 5:53 AM Kevin Horton wrote: > >>I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with >>the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a >>cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is >>really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS >>fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial >>panel. >> >>If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed, >>altimeter and VSI. >> >>I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable >>solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have >>failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me. >>-- >>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) >>Ottawa, Canada > >http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 18, 2003
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Instrament Panels
Ron Patterson wrote: > >Anybody know where I can get a panel for my RV-4 that is custom made? I have most of the avionics and need a fabricated unit to bolt up my radios to and plug in the wiring. (also want a pre-wired package prepared for me by an expert). > >Ron Patterson >scc_ron(at)yahoo.com >510-421-2316 > > http://www.aerotronics.com - I saw there work at Sun-n-Fun and it looked great! -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10
Date: Jul 18, 2003
Agreed. Even if I had a Dynon that was proven after some IFR trials, I would still have at minimum a backup attitude indicator, altimeter, and airspeed. Just a comfort factor so that I don't have all instruments wrapped up in one. Heck, I would probably end up looking at the analog altimeter and airspeed indicator most of the time anyway, since that is what I am used to. I had a Rocky Mountain uEncoder and never used it.....guess that qualifies me as "old school". Paul Besing RV-6A Sold (Waiting on the RV-10) http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10 > > > Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Paul Besing wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> I'd like to hear more of these kinds of reports, especially when they start > > >> flying. Is there anyone who has a Dynon flying and has some instrument > > >> (hood) time with it? My RV-10 will be IFR, and if this is my primary > > >> attitude indicator (and then some) I'd like to see how it is in the clouds. > > > > > > > > >Paul, you make a very good point. It is good that purchasers of the > > >Dynon are enthusiastic about their units before they even get them > > >unpacked, but a report on the way the unit "works" on the ground > > >is...........useless. > > > > > >I have experience with a beta test version of an EFIS, and even though > > >is was very impressive in the hands, it was useless in the air when > > >subjected to actual flight conditions. I have heard good reports of the > > >Dynon in the air, matter of fact one of our RV groups pilots has one. > > >But I also look forward to hearing reports from pilots who have flown > > >actual approaches with the Dynon as the only flight instrument. That > > >will really tell us how well the Dynon guys have their act together. > > > > > >Sam Buchanan > > > > > I certainly agree that we need to get some in-flight experience with > > the D-10 before we declare it a winner. But, anyone who goes in a > > cloud with the D-10 (or any EFIS) as the only flight instrument is > > really sticking their neck out. Let's not forget that if the EFIS > > fails you need some other flight instruments so you can do partial > > panel. > > > > If you plan to fly IFR, you really should also have backup airspeed, > > altimeter and VSI. > > > > I don't care how good the Dynon software coders are, or how reliable > > solid state devices and modern displays are, they still have > > failures. And I want to make sure that the failure doesn't kill me. > > > By "only flight instrument" I was referring to flying approaches (IMC or > under the hood) using the Dynon as the only source of reference for > flight information. > > Obviously the Dynon should have at least partial panel backup in actual > IMC. > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Dynon D-10 First Flight
Date: Jul 18, 2003
I went to the hanger at 5:20 pm, ripped out the Vac Horizon, installed the Dynon. Dropped the nuts and made what should have been a 5 minute task into 30. I had made a quick and dirty cable with an alligator clip on the hot lead. At 6:30 I went home for dinner. After supper I went to Menards and got 2- 1/4" Ts and nipples for the pitot static lines. Back to the airport, hooked up the pitot & static, installed the cover over the panel and went flying. Temp installation, less than 90 minutes. I only had time to fly for about 20 minutes. First of all in an RV-4 the display is Large enough. Maybe even too large. I think I noticed errors that also exsist in Vacuum Horizon instruments but mostly go unnoticed. The Alt and airspeed functions work flawlessly and correlated with my TSO'd altimeter and Rocky encoder with in a few feet and a knot or two. The roll indications were for the most part right on, however, during turns on the ground there was some bank indication error in sharp turns. During level flight the roll indication wandered a a couple of degrees, mostly indicating a left roll, again the display is so accurate the indication probably would have gone unnoticed in a std 3 1/8 gyro instrument. The pitch also wandered a few times, In most cases this was after large, rapid pitch excursions. After a few moments it seemed to settle down. The yaw indications seemed very accurate both in rate and the ball, but I did not have time to really test standard rate turns etc. I did several rolls and a half-Cuban. After the cuban the pitch was off by nearly 10 deg but it settled quickly. The "attitude indeterminate" warning never was never displayed in during the flight. It did several times when I was experimenting with the insturment in my hands. As advertised, The compass does not work at all. Sometimes it will be pretty close and others it was 180 degrees off. I did not have time to try long shallow banks. So after one short flight, my thoughts are that the unit is pretty good, it is not perfect. It has several really nice features. I have no doubt that I can fly IFR successfully. The brightness of the display is excellent, even in direct sunlight. It is big enough. The information is all very easily to comprehend. and the accuracy is probably acceptable but I must admit the pitch and roll is not everything I hoped for, but I am comfortable enough with it to go find a cloud and fly around inside it. In short, for you VFR types, Vacuum pumps are a thing of the past! This thing is the answer! I am looking for an IFR solution and I am not ready to rip out the vacuum system just yet. I should have several more hours on it before the weekend is over. More to come. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal RV-4 with no name, anybody got any good ideas????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com>
Subject: RV's and Mexico
Date: Jul 18, 2003
Has anyone out there flown an experimental into Mexico? I saw the recent article about Francesquito in Pilot Getaways and thought a weekend trip might be fun. Can't find anything online about flying an RV. See you at Oshkosh. Thanks, Parker RV8 N321PT flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rpmiller" <rpmiller(at)1usa.net>
Subject: very basic rivet question
Date: Jul 18, 2003
O.K. I'm riveting my 4 wing and I am wondering why the leading edge is supposed to use -4 rivets while the rest of the wing uses -3.5. Also I was merrily squeezing the rivets that connect the leading edge to the spar web flange but am finding that using a 3.5 the head height looks just barely big enough when the rivet is squeezed just enough to reject the little avery rivet gauge. I tried a -4 and of course it has a bigger head. I'd like to blindly follow the plans but I thought someone might have some advice. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 2003
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: very basic rivet question
RP ... before you rework any of the rivets that fail the Avery gauge, check out the exact rivet specifications at my web page... http://home.earthlink.net/~gilalex/ I have found that most of my dimpled holes seem to work better using a rivet length that is 0.5 longer than the plane call out. I belive this is due to the hole being somewhat enlarged during the dimpling process. gil in Tucson PS If any of you have book marked my old page at http://home.flash.net/~gila/ I suggest you change the bookmark/link. I don't know how much longer this old page will last. > >O.K. I'm riveting my 4 wing and I am wondering why the leading edge is >supposed to use -4 rivets while the rest of the wing uses -3.5. Also I >was merrily squeezing the rivets that connect the leading edge to the spar >web flange but am finding that using a 3.5 the head height looks just >barely big enough when the rivet is squeezed just enough to reject the >little avery rivet gauge. I tried a -4 and of course it has a bigger >head. I'd like to blindly follow the plans but I thought someone might >have some advice. > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: very basic rivet question
Date: Jul 19, 2003
> > O.K. I'm riveting my 4 wing and I am wondering why the leading edge is supposed to use -4 rivets while the rest of the wing uses -3.5. Also I was merrily squeezing the rivets that connect the leading edge to the spar web flange but am finding that using a 3.5 the head height looks just barely big enough when the rivet is squeezed just enough to reject the little avery rivet gauge. I tried a -4 and of course it has a bigger head. I'd like to blindly follow the plans but I thought someone might have some advice. > It is my opinion that blindly following the plans is not a good idea in this, or any other, area. Use the rivet length that is needed. The plans will usually give you a starting place to figure it out. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PASSPAT(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Subject: Re: RV's and Mexico
Parker Make dam sure your insurance has a Mx. binder for travel in that place Also you don't want to get to far from the plane or it may get ripped off. Pat ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Dynon D-10 Second Flight
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Second flight this morning. This morning I was kind to the Dynon and did not assualt it with acro, but rather flew it like an IFR airplane and it worked great!!! The speed envelope on the RV is so wide and the display is so accurate that much of what I percieved last night as pitch wandering was really airspeed (read pitch) changes. The bank still wanders on the ground in turns and only a degree or two in flight, but again, the screen allows you to see EXACTLY what level is and you want it to be PERFECT and and it almost is! I will probably have a nice backlit Horizon for sale soon! I am pretty happy with it right now. More to follow. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 2003
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10 First Flight
Sorry to hear the sexy box is not 100% what we were hoping it would be. I wonder if the new offering from Greg Toman will have any of the same flaws. I look forward to a critical shoot-out among the new whiz-boxes on the market now or by year's end. These are excoiting times to live in for airplane builders and weekend warrior scud-runner types. www.grtavionics.com (I'm a satisfied customer of one of Greg's original Engine Information Systems monitors, and I think he's going to rock the competition in October with this one ;-) -Bill B ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Subject: very basic rivet question
Date: Jul 19, 2003
I agree with the others. The rivet length you need will vary. Sometimes you just need a longer rivet. We all dimple/countersink etc to differing levels. Even from rivet to rivet there is bound to be some minor variation. Use the rivet length that gets you the results you need. I even ordered extra rivets (longer) than what came in the kits for just that reason. Bob Hassel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of rpmiller Subject: RV-List: very basic rivet question O.K. I'm riveting my 4 wing and I am wondering why the leading edge is supposed to use -4 rivets while the rest of the wing uses -3.5. Also I was merrily squeezing the rivets that connect the leading edge to the spar web flange but am finding that using a 3.5 the head height looks just barely big enough when the rivet is squeezed just enough to reject the little avery rivet gauge. I tried a -4 and of course it has a bigger head. I'd like to blindly follow the plans but I thought someone might have some advice. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: very basic rivet question
Date: Jul 16, 2003
I had no trouble at all meeting the I 1/2 + diameter ratio between shop-head and rivet body on all my wing skins as called up on the plans (1994 vintage). I don't know what the present RV-4 plans call-up, but on the -6 the spar web is .040" thk mat'l, whereas most of the ribs are .025" and a few .032".-- A .032" skin with a .040" web used with -3.5 rivet will just (theoretically) make it by .007" if squeezed perfectly, not including primer thickness.-----Use the -4 rivet! Cheers!! Henry Hore > O.K. I'm riveting my 4 wing and I am wondering why the leading edge is supposed to use -4 rivets while the rest of the wing uses -3.5. Also I was merrily squeezing the rivets that connect the leading edge to the spar web flange but am finding that using a 3.5 the head height looks just barely big enough when the rivet is squeezed just enough to reject the little avery rivet gauge. I tried a -4 and of course it has a bigger head. I'd like to blindly follow the plans but I thought someone might have some advice. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Gummo" <t.gummo(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon D-10 Second Flight
Date: Jul 19, 2003
> > The bank still wanders on the ground in turns and only a degree or two in > flight, but again, the screen allows you to see EXACTLY what level is and > you want it to be PERFECT and and it almost is! > Tailwinds, > Doug Rozendaal Doug, I was told to only taxi as fast as I can walk. You must be really going fast on the ground to cause bank angles during turns. You must be hard on tires and brakes too. :-) How about this for the name for your RV-4: "Almost A Rocket" LOL Sounds like you are having fun. Check 6. Tom Gummo Apple Valley, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Werner" <russ(at)wernerworld.com>
Subject: Dynon encoder question
Date: Jul 19, 2003
A friend at the hangar is wiring up his Dynon encoder functions to a KT76 Transponder. The encoder has a "strobe" line out. The old Ameriking encoder manual said to put this line to ground when using a KT76. Is this the case with any encoder and should the Dynon "strobe" line also be grounded? We're guessing so, but anyone with some knowledge here that can point us right would be appreciated. Russ Werner HRII Copy: rv-list aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Subject: Temporairily off list
Signing off the list for about 10 days. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Oshkosh Newby
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Hi Everyone, I am now the proud owner of a nearly completed RV7. I am making the journey to Osh for the first time and am wondering if there is a central location where the RV's park. I'm sure some will be a separate camping area but I'm interested in seeing as many as possible. I'm ready!! Digital camera, 512mb card, hat , sunscreen, twitching credit card and an attitude, I'll be there when it opens. This list has already been extremely helpful. Thanks folks, and God bless American for providing us the opportunity to enjoy what we love!!!! Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ Stellar Airpark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 19, 2003
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh Newby
Hi Darwin Ohhh Yesssss, there's an RV area. go North, my friend, we're at the north end of 18-36 and a little west. If ya wander towards the warbird area or the trimotor rides, yer bound to meet up with us. There is a parking area, all for us, called 'Area 51', if there are enough, we even overflow in to 'The Skunkworks'...... Gert ktlkrn(at)cox.net wrote: > > Hi Everyone, > > I am now the proud owner of a nearly completed RV7. I am making the journey to Osh for the first time and am wondering if there is a central location where the RV's park. I'm sure some will be a separate camping area but I'm interested in seeing as many as possible. > > I'm ready!! Digital camera, 512mb card, hat , sunscreen, twitching credit card and an attitude, I'll be there when it opens. > > This list has already been extremely helpful. Thanks folks, and God bless American for providing us the opportunity to enjoy what we love!!!! > > Darwin N. Barrie > Chandler AZ > Stellar Airpark > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: very basic rivet question
Date: Jul 19, 2003
I found that I sometimes needed to substitute a longer rivet than called for in the plans because the rivet did not extend 1.5 times the rivet diameter beyond the hole before squeezing. I hand-filed a notch in a small piece of 1/8" thick aluminum so I could check this and avoid having to drill out a rivet that formed a shop head that was less than 1/2 a rivet diameter high. The vast majority of the rivets called for were OK, but occasionally they would be too short. When this would happen, I'd check that the pieces were fitting together without gaps & if so, go with the longer rivet. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Dynon encoder question
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Russ, Just put in my second Dynon using the encoder. GROUND pin#s #16 - #4 along with the master ground #3. Power pin#s #1 - #14. The gray code A1-C4 are all the same as the encoder to transponder. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone/Fax: 406-538-6574 noel(at)blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Russ Werner Subject: RV-List: Dynon encoder question A friend at the hangar is wiring up his Dynon encoder functions to a KT76 Transponder. The encoder has a "strobe" line out. The old Ameriking encoder manual said to put this line to ground when using a KT76. Is this the case with any encoder and should the Dynon "strobe" line also be grounded? We're guessing so, but anyone with some knowledge here that can point us right would be appreciated. Russ Werner HRII Copy: rv-list aeroelectric-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Oshkosh Newby
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Thanks, this is the information I'm looking for. Myself and another builder are flying commercially to Milwaukee then driving up. We will be there the first 4 days. I'm close to the panel planning stage so I'm going to be taking pictures and shopping. Thanks again. Darwin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oshkosh Newby > > Hi Darwin > > Ohhh Yesssss, there's an RV area. go North, my friend, we're at the > north end of 18-36 and a little west. If ya wander towards the warbird > area or the trimotor rides, yer bound to meet up with us. > > There is a parking area, all for us, called 'Area 51', if there are > enough, we even overflow in to 'The Skunkworks'...... > > Gert > > ktlkrn(at)cox.net wrote: > > > > > Hi Everyone, > > > > I am now the proud owner of a nearly completed RV7. I am making the journey to Osh for the first time and am wondering if there is a central location where the RV's park. I'm sure some will be a separate camping area but I'm interested in seeing as many as possible. > > > > I'm ready!! Digital camera, 512mb card, hat , sunscreen, twitching credit card and an attitude, I'll be there when it opens. > > > > This list has already been extremely helpful. Thanks folks, and God bless American for providing us the opportunity to enjoy what we love!!!! > > > > Darwin N. Barrie > > Chandler AZ > > Stellar Airpark > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Subject: Re: Dynon encoder question
According to Dynon tech support the strobe connection is just grounded if there is no corresponding connection on the transponder. Bob Trumpfheller ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jcobb(at)guardpilot.com" <jcobb(at)guardpilot.com>
Subject: For Sale: 70x71 Warnke Prop for 160HP RV-4/6
Date: Jul 19, 2003
FOR SALE: 2-blade, wood, 70x71, Warnke Propeller The prop has about 500 hours and is in good condition. It performed very well on the airplane with a consistent cruise speed of 160 KTS at 75% power at 8K feet and a gross weight climb of 1500fpm. I am moving back to the southeast and have opted for a composite (Catto) prop for better weather resistance. The prop is available for pick-up at DVT (Phoenix, AZ) now, or it will be moved to MGM (Montgomery, AL) in a few weeks. Or you can pay shipping anywhere. Make an offer. John Cobb jcobb(at)guardpilot.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2003
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Dynon D10 encoder input/output
I have not received my D10 yet, but I have read the manuals available on the web site. Does the D10 output grey code to the transponder or does it require input from an external encoder? Inquiring minds want to know. Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: For Sale: 70x71 Warnke Prop for 160HP RV-4/6
Date: Jul 20, 2003
Might be interested. Need to check with my partner. Please put me on your list. I will get back to you. We are in SC so AL is a lot closer. Question: On what plane do you have it and at what weight are the numbers mentioned for that plane? Thanks, James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of > jcobb(at)guardpilot.com > Sent: Saturday, July 19, 2003 11:36 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: For Sale: 70x71 Warnke Prop for 160HP RV-4/6 > > > > > FOR SALE: 2-blade, wood, 70x71, Warnke Propeller > > The prop has about 500 hours and is in good condition. It performed very > well on the airplane with a consistent cruise speed of 160 KTS at > 75% power > at 8K feet and a gross weight climb of 1500fpm. I am moving back to the > southeast and have opted for a composite (Catto) prop for better weather > resistance. > > The prop is available for pick-up at DVT (Phoenix, AZ) now, or it will be > moved to MGM (Montgomery, AL) in a few weeks. Or you can pay shipping > anywhere. > > Make an offer. > > John Cobb > jcobb(at)guardpilot.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2003
From: RV3 <rv3(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: For Sale: 70x71 Warnke Prop for 160HP RV-4/6
jcobb(at)guardpilot.com wrote: > >FOR SALE: 2-blade, wood, 70x71, Warnke Propeller > >The prop has about 500 hours and is in good condition. It performed very >well on the airplane with a consistent cruise speed of 160 KTS at 75% power >at 8K feet and a gross weight climb of 1500fpm. I am moving back to the >southeast and have opted for a composite (Catto) prop for better weather >resistance. > >The prop is available for pick-up at DVT (Phoenix, AZ) now, or it will be >moved to MGM (Montgomery, AL) in a few weeks. Or you can pay shipping >anywhere. > >Make an offer. > >John Cobb > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Hi John, OOOPS. I offer $425 and will pay UPS Ground shipping.... IF, PROP BOLT HOLES ARE 3/8 INCH. Can you send close-up pictures? Bob Urban Kansas City area ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Dynon D10 encoder input/output
Date: Jul 20, 2003
Yes, it outputs the grey codes. See the installation manual. - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com 2003 - The year of flight! > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard V. Reynolds [mailto:rvreynolds(at)macs.net] > Sent: Sunday, July 20, 2003 6:24 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Dynon D10 encoder input/output > > > --> > > I have not received my D10 yet, but I have read the manuals > available on the web site. > > Does the D10 output grey code to the transponder or does it > require input from an external encoder? > > Inquiring minds want to know. > > Richard Reynolds > > > ========= > Matronics Forums. > ========= > List members. > ========= > ========= > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2003
From: Frank Dombroski <f_dombroski(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Nags Head NC Area RV's
I will be in Nags Head for a family week, today until next Sat. As my RV-8 project is still in AZ, and I on the east coast, I am having RV withdraw. Any flying or nearly completed RV's in the neighborhood interested in a visit/flight companion??? Thanks Frank Dombroski -8 wires and plumbing - still... --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 2003
Subject: Re: Nags Head NC Area RV's
The Airventure Cup Race has 18 of us "RVs" in it and we are all coming down to Kitty Hawk next Friday and Saturday. Come out to Dare County for the time trials on Saturday. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 106 hrs Race #87 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: For Sale: RV-6A
Date: Jul 20, 2003
Hi Listers, I'm posting this for a friend. For more info please contact Jill whose email and phone listed below. She is not the owner either but has agreed to handle the sale. The aircraft is located in Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada. About 3 1/2 hours north of Fargo, ND. Curt RV-6 C-GACR 25 hours and loving it! >> RV6A for sale - e-mail jill_oakes(at)umanitoba.ca or call (204) 261-1007 if >> you're interested, feel free to pass this information on to others you >> think might like to know. >> 150 hrs. TT >> Lycoming o-320 160 hp. Phlogiston spar. >> Electric flaps and elevator trim. >> Wing tip landing and position lights, >> Strobe on vertical stabiliser. >> New navcom radio, >> Sigtronics voice activated intercom. >> Transponder with Mode C. >> AmeriKing ELT. >> Stainless steel cross-over exhaust. >> Electric tachometer. >> Electric artificial horizon. >> EGT and CHT. >> Colin Walker wooden prop. >> New main wheel tires. >> Asking $55,000 Canadian firm. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 20, 2003
Subject: Of NACA scoops: the early experiments
Yesterday dawned bright and only somewhat hazy, so there was no excuse not to make scientific progress and dispell ignorance... since none of the cows or dogs around here seemed intersted, I stepped forward to fly the mission. Hey, it's a tough job, expanding the scope of aeronautical knowledge, but someone has to do it. A highly accurate, precision temperature sensing instrument (from the aerospace division of Radio Shack) was fitted to the airframe with Duck brand duct tape, to allow independent monitoring of the OAT during the flights. OAT readings from the right wheel pant would be compared with the warm-ish air being delivered by my left-side NACA scoop, where the probe for my Rocky Mountain microEncoder OAT function is mounted. Flight test data was collected at 75% cruise power in level flight at 2000, 3000 and 4000 feet MSL from both instruments, then avaraged and compared. Three different regimes were tested. The first compared the readings in the normal state, as installed. This test run showed a difference on the ground, before engine startup, of only 0.8 C. This was taken to be the absolute gauge error between the two instruments. This difference was subtracted out of all subsequent comparisons. Averaging data from all three flight levels, the measured (uEncoder) vs. actual (RadioShack) OAT's was off by +5.3 C. The next test flight was made with the gaps in the cowling halves taped over to eliminate hot air leakage from the engine compartment into the slipstream. The temp spread in this condition dropped to +4.6 C. Thus we conclude that convection contributes about 0.7 C to the temp rise above ambient. This still left unanswered the question of probe error due to heat soak (conduction and radiation) into the back of the probe from the cockpit environment under the panel and close to the firewall. (The probe is insulated with generous amounts of spray in place foam, but this still proved to be a source of error; read on...) The Radio Shack probe was moved inside, to the opening of the air vent, allowing comparison of measured versus delivered air temps in the fresh air vent system. This error was found to be +1.2 C, meaning the air coming from the vent was actually slightly cooler than what the dedicated OAT probe was reporting. By subtraction, it is possible to estimate the warming contribution made by conduction from the cowling surface into the boundary layer of air flowing along the outside of the cowl and ultimately into the fresh air vent system. The answer: an average of 4.1 C. The cowl gets quite hot even in that gale of a slipstream, and sources that heat into the ambient air by the bucketload! I didn't fly with this instrumentation set-up and the cowl gaps untaped again, but adding that earlier 0.7 C contribution back in, we get an estimated 4.8 C total rise in air temp, with instrument errors factored out, as a result of heat transfer in this scoop location. My opinion: it's structurally simple and elegant to locate the scoop where Van says to put it, but DON"T!!! Considering the scoop's puropose, it's a very bad choice of locations for entraining cool outside air into the RV cockpit. And the OAT probe should be nowhere near the engine or any slipstream air that has passed near the engine. I am not sure what I will do about this (except to relocate the probe, which is realtively simple), since my ship is finished and painted and all, but for those of you still building, this may help you improve your free "adiabatic lapse rate air conditioning" substantially. Suggestions for retro-fit modifications are welcome and solicited... Bill Boyd RV-6A one of the few things I've posted that may be worth archiving ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2003
From: RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Subject: RV Forum NY 9-13...COME FLY WITH ME
From Ohio to Maryland up through NEE Canada....1200+ Flyers sent...did you get your REV Forum Notice? See you at KFZY (Fulton NY) this year? Mark your calendars and plan to attend. September 12, 2003 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA 486 General meeting night too. September 13, 2003 Saturday technical seminars all day, meals provided to paid attendee's. Then a nice dinner banquet with a presentation. This year Mr. Kirk House, ex-Director Curator of the Glenn Cirtiss Museum will talk about the books on Glenn he wrote, and how Glenn was the ultimate Experimenter! September 14, 2003 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing. see us at www.eaachapter486.com We will be updating (correcting-there are ome errors now) our site soon with the 2003 plans. Last year over 56+ RV's and 25 SPAM's flew in with over 150 attendee's. There was Mike Seager and the Factory RV6 doing instruction (which is happening again this year are you builders close email Craig Warner at cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com ) and as well there was manufacturers like Lycoming and Aerospace logic with tables displaying and selling their wares. I could go on...but you get the picture...just ask some one who has been there the $40 (pre registered) is easily worth it. Hope to See you all there. OH I plan to give rides this year Dammmmmit! YOU GAME? Respectfully, David McManmon President EAA 486 RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net>
Subject: checkered pattern
Date: Jul 20, 2003
Anybody know of a nice 'how to' website (pictures) for painting a black and white checkered pattern? Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 20, 2003
From: bruno <rv4(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: SL-40 Intercom Function
Here's the deal on the SL-40 intercom function and monitor function: Intercom: Activating the intercom requires pulling pin 12 to ground. This can be done with a switch on the panel (as shown in the installation manual, switch not supplied with SL-40 install kit), or by hard wiring pin 12 to ground in the harness (if you want the intercom ON all the time). Monitor: Activated by pressing the MON button on the front of the panel. De-activated by pressing MON again. There is no mention in either the Installation Manual or Users Guide of not being able to use Intercom and Monitor at the same time. All this and more can be found in the Installation Manual and Users Guide available on the UPS Aviation Technologies website. http://www.upsat.com/ I found the time spent reading the installation manuals and users guides answered all my questions about functions, features, and how to mount the hardware. Many manufacturers make both available to download in PDF format. Steve Allison SL-40 on the shelf, along with other panel hardware....time to make holes in the panel :-) ----------------------------------------------- Hello Steve hard wiring pin 12 to ground in the harness (if you want the intercom ON all the time)... That's exactly how my SL-40 is wired.If I don't want the intercom to work in the back seat, I just turn the volume/squelch function to zero and switch to single mike operation. The Intercom/Monitor function do work nicely together on my radio. Cheers Bruno ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Pichon" <DeanPichon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Hi Doug, I started by placing tape on the fuselage to prevent the skirt from chafing the paint. I didn't like the look either, and glued a small rubber "U" channel to the edge of the skirt. The channel is not clear as you would like, but is black and does not seem objectionable. I installed the channel 100 hours ago and it's still working well. You can buy this "U" channel from AS&S. Good luck, Dean Pichon Morgantown, WV ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Weiler Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing Greetings all: My newly completed RV-4 now has about 45 hours on it. It is unpainted but hopefully will have a striking paint job completed this fall. BUT... I hope to come up with a good method to prevent the rear canopy skirt from scratching the paint on the top rear of the fuselage. Maybe I was too successful in getting a tight seal around the rear canopy skirt. Currently I have it lined with Van's UHMW plastic tape and also some small foam tape, but it still rubs and scratches the fuselage. I have seem folks put tape on the fuselage itself to prevent scratches but it doesn't look real great when the canopy open. It would be nice if there existed some thin, flexible, durable, clear U-channel to put on the skirt itself. Anyone got any great ideas? Thanks Doug Weiler N722DW, flies like a dream ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: checkered pattern
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Steve, I just undertook the same thing a couple months ago. I got a lot of responses from the list as I used the original 7 rudder as a "painting test bed". The best way for me turned out going to a sign shop and having a mirror image paint masking overlay cut on a vinyl cutting machine. The rudder, for example, is drawn to size within the sign companies image software. You could call the company and ask them what format your file should be and draw your own. All they then do is overlay your rudder over a self created checkerboard within their software or a checkboard they have in their image files. You just position your file over the checkboard for the look you want. In my case, we kinda morphed the checkerboard to get the look I wanted. They then cut the masking material, do not use vinyl as it sticks way too tight, peel off the blocks you want to paint and apply it to the backing material. They give this to you. There is no measuring, sticking each square or painting one and then the next. Paint it and peel. If you want to do something other than the rudder, most cutting machines will handle rolls about 3-4' wide and as long as you want. Most of these sign shops will have to order the masking rolls. This may be totally opposite of what you want to do but this is cheap, quick and easy. Here is the look I got. http://rvflying.tripod.com/blackrudder.jpg Dana Overall Richmond, KY RV-7 slider/fuselage Finish kit ordered!! Buying Instruments http://rvflying.tripod.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mlfred(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Subject: checkerboard pattern how-to
In a message dated 7/21/2003 1:58:32 AM Central Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > From: "Steve J Hurlbut" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> > Subject: RV-List: checkered pattern > > > Anybody know of a nice 'how to' website (pictures) for painting > a black and white checkered pattern? > > Steve > Hey Steve: You don't mention what area you might be doing...but in my experience,... get your local sign shop to do it in vinyl (have 'em lay the black onto a white part) -- much less frustrating. Choice #2 would be to get them to put the pattern on in reverse, and then paint your pattern on, removing the sign shop areas later. They have less sticky stuff for this type of procedure. If it's transportable parts (tips, cowl, rudder), just take the parts in and pick 'em up later -- an extension of the KISS principle. Cheers! Mark Team Rocket LP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: very basic rivet question
> >I found that I sometimes needed to substitute a longer rivet than called >for in the plans because the rivet did not extend 1.5 times the rivet >diameter beyond the hole before squeezing. I hand-filed a notch in a >small piece of 1/8" thick aluminum so I could check this and avoid having >to drill out a rivet that formed a shop head that was less than 1/2 a >rivet diameter high. The vast majority of the rivets called for were OK, >but occasionally they would be too short. When this would happen, I'd >check that the pieces were fitting together without gaps & if so, go with >the longer rivet. I found the same thing. I also made a gauge like the one Dave describes above. What I also found was that I often had to trim rivets to half sizes. A 4 was too short, but a 5 was too long. Thus, I would trim rivets to 4.5. I suppose it would be easier to simply buy some half-sizes. They are not terribly inexpensive. Sometimes (rarely) the rivet size is not listed anywhere. Also, I found that Vans did not supply enough blind rivets to finish the tail. This seemed very odd because I only used blind rivets where absolutely essential since I have nearly every riveting tool known to man. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Subject: Re: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
3M makes a thin flexible clear material that is used as a chip protector on the front of cars. The stuff is almost invisible allowing the color to show through. I used it on the canopy of my 6 on the front edge that goes under the roll bar hoop and on the underside of the skirt. Only 15 hours but seems to be holding up well. Try a local automotive customizing shop or body shop supply house. Larry Gagnon Kitfox N102LG RV6 N6LG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
Date: Jul 21, 2003
I think this must be the same stuff Van's is now selling to protect the flaps, in place of the stainless tape they used to sell. I used some of it to protect the back of my pickup where the canopy door rubbed on the tailgate. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Larygagnon(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing 3M makes a thin flexible clear material that is used as a chip protector on the front of cars. The stuff is almost invisible allowing the color to show through. I used it on the canopy of my 6 on the front edge that goes under the roll bar hoop and on the underside of the skirt. Only 15 hours but seems to be holding up well. Try a local automotive customizing shop or body shop supply house. Larry Gagnon Kitfox N102LG RV6 N6LG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV's and Mexico
Date: Jul 21, 2003
You can do it but you must have a letter from the Mexican CAA giving you permission to operate an experiemtnal aircraft in their coutry. And you must carry that letter with you during the flight. Check out the airplane's Operating Limitations. There should be a paragraph in there about this topic. Mike Robertson Das Fed >From: "Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: RV's and Mexico >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:50:58 -0700 > > >Has anyone out there flown an experimental into Mexico? I saw the >recent article about Francesquito in Pilot Getaways and thought a >weekend trip might be fun. Can't find anything online about flying an >RV. > >See you at Oshkosh. > >Thanks, > >Parker >RV8 N321PT flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "michael michael" <top_gun_toronto(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Safety crazy in canada
Date: Jul 21, 2003
I found a site on the net. www.amsafe.com They are working on an airbag that fits in your shoulder belt. The sales staff informed me they had sold over 1000 units to the airlines over the last year & that theyse belts are in the zenair 2000. They have not had a single non-impact inflation to date. it should be certified to be used in general aviation this September. does anyone else have any info on this or know of RVers or other kitplanes with theyse installed Michael Safety crazy toronto ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV's and Mexico
> >You can do it but you must have a letter from the Mexican CAA giving you >permission to operate an experiemtnal aircraft in their coutry. And you >must carry that letter with you during the flight. Check out the airplane's >Operating Limitations. There should be a paragraph in there about this >topic. Perhaps things have changed, but when I checked several years ago, it was not unusual for your insurance company to forbid you to go to Mexico without a substantial increase in premium. As I understand it, the problem is theft that is condoned (often perpetrated) by local officials. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV's and Mexico
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Mexico is a covered policy territory on all the policies available today(I assume on AVEMCO as well). You can verify this by reading your policy... it should be listed as policy territory in the index. This means that they would pay a claim (liability or hull or both... whatever you've purchased) if you had a claim down there. The issue with the certificate is that the Mexican government requires proof of insurance from a MEXICAN insurance company (to bring $ into their economy). Most companies can provide this if they own or have an agreement with a mexican insurance company, and normally it costs 85 to 100 $'s. The reason to get that is that it prevents the Mex. gov't from impounding the plane and imprisoning you. The VanGuard Program has no such agreement and can't provide that certificate. (However, you can get coverage in weeklong or monthlong blocks thru Baja Bush Pilots if I'm not mistaken and it's about $110). This really does nothing to change the fact that you're covered under an inforce policy, which you would be if covered by the VanGuard Program. Well worth it as a get out of jail free card for that place. JT (never been in a Mexican Jail, nor had to recover property from them) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill Dube" <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and Mexico > >You can do it but you must have a letter from the Mexican CAA giving you >permission to operate an experiemtnal aircraft in their coutry. And you >must carry that letter with you during the flight. Check out the airplane's >Operating Limitations. There should be a paragraph in there about this >topic. Perhaps things have changed, but when I checked several years ago, it was not unusual for your insurance company to forbid you to go to Mexico without a substantial increase in premium. As I understand it, the problem is theft that is condoned (often perpetrated) by local officials. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
Date: Jul 21, 2003
@msn.com> > > Hi Doug, > > I started by placing tape on the fuselage to prevent the skirt from chafing the paint. I didn't like the look either, and glued a small rubber "U" channel to the edge of the skirt. The channel is not clear as you would like, but is black and does not seem objectionable. I installed the channel 100 hours ago and it's still working well. You can buy this "U" channel from AS&S. > > Good luck, One of our local RV pilots suggested using the "fuzzy" half of a self-stick Velco strip. I cut it to about 1/4" wide and stuck it neatly to the bottom of the canopy skirt. This now seems to really work well. It allows the canopy skirt to ride just a fraction of an inch above the fuselage surface plus it is a tan color which is also the color of my interior. Thanks Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bill cox" <bcox(at)atgi.net>
Subject: RV's and Mexico
Date: Jul 21, 2003
friends of mine went into Mexico (actually 2 Rv 6's) for a week , had a great time , just had to constantly grease palms. you can email Bud, at: RV-6(at)attbi.com and a website with more info as well, http://www.bajabushpilots.com/ good luck BILL COX NETWORK DESIGN ENGINEER (NDE) ADVANCED TELCOM GROUP 707-284-4240 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson Subject: Re: RV-List: RV's and Mexico You can do it but you must have a letter from the Mexican CAA giving you permission to operate an experiemtnal aircraft in their coutry. And you must carry that letter with you during the flight. Check out the airplane's Operating Limitations. There should be a paragraph in there about this topic. Mike Robertson Das Fed >From: "Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: RV's and Mexico >Date: Fri, 18 Jul 2003 20:50:58 -0700 > > >Has anyone out there flown an experimental into Mexico? I saw the >recent article about Francesquito in Pilot Getaways and thought a >weekend trip might be fun. Can't find anything online about flying an >RV. > >See you at Oshkosh. > >Thanks, > >Parker >RV8 N321PT flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Doug Reeves "Van's Air Force" web site
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Doug's site now says it is no longer available. Does anyone know what happened? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV's and Mexico
Just found this on EAA chapter 14 web site. The saga of Mike Black's flight to Cabo in the Avid continues: Bob,sorry it took a week to get back to you,but I need some obvious time to regroup. I did recover my airplane and I'm in process of fixing it. Well after the police figured out that I was traveling in a plane and not in a car wreck as they originally assumed, I was taken to a store where I quickly downed a gallon of water. The police were very insistent of me going to the hospital,but I was very firm in my decision to return to Cabo San Lucas as quickly as possible to pick up my truck and trailer and begin planning my recovery process. Thanks to the very helpful boys in blue,I was dropped at the bus station at 11:15 p.m. to my now changing luck,45 mins. before the last bus to Cabo was to leave. It was a scheduled 8 hr. bus ride and I found it very hard to sleep knowing how dangerous the road is and the speed in which we driving. Tijauna taxi's have nothing on this guy I kept thinking. I finally arrived in Cabo at about 10:30 a.m. or so the next day. All I could think about is how I was going to drive that far without sleeping. Well the decision was made. I needed rest and there was no way around it! After reassuring everyone that I was going to be alright I finally made it to sleep around 4:00 in the afternoon and slept well indeed. By noon the next day I was on my way with my girlfriend and her daughter for the campground an hour or so south of the area where the police found me. We arrived there shortly before 8 p.m. and I quickly scouted around for someone who needed some work. I met a Mexican guy named Joel (ho-el)who seemed up to the task and we agreed on a dollar amount and off we went. The dessert road that I walked out on was very tough on the truck and trailer. At times we were traveling slower that a slow walk. About a half mile from the "Bad Landing Area", we were greeted by the military and several police.They were real adamant about us turning around and trying again in the morning. One of the guys kept saying that there was nothing left.He said a lot of things had been stolen. I could tell be his nervous actions something was up! After more pleading thy let us pass,but offered no help. At about midnight we were looking at the mess. Someone had moved it causing more damage and all of my personal items were gone except for the ones I squeezed into my backpack. My time has run out again on this computer,but I will keep you updated on the repair process. MIKE Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Safety crazy in canada
> > >I found a site on the net. www.amsafe.com They are working on an airbag that >fits in your shoulder belt. The sales staff informed me they had sold over >1000 units to the airlines over the last year & that theyse belts are in the >zenair 2000. They have not had a single non-impact inflation to date. > >it should be certified to be used in general aviation this September. > >does anyone else have any info on this or know of RVers or other kitplanes >with theyse installed > > >Michael >Safety crazy toronto My understanding is that this system is not yet approved in the Zenair 2000, although it is possible that this approval has happened recently and I haven't heard about it yet. My last involvement was a couple of months ago - we asked a bunch of questions about the effect of an undesired deployment of the bag, and they were still trying to figure out the answers. Things to think about: Yes, such a system might help reduce injuries in an accident where the crash forces happened to be in the right direction. But, the system is designed so only a single input is required to cause it to deploy. Thus it is quite possible that a wiring fault or g-sensor failure or other fault could cause the system to deploy when it should not. Will the deployment of the bag push forward on the controls? If so, you can easily picture scenarios where an unwanted deployment could cause an accident (low altitude, or at high speed). So it is quite possible that the addition of such a system could in fact reduce the level of safety. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: "D. Jones" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Dynon- External Magnetic Sensor
List: Those that are using the Dynon... Are you using the external magnetic sensor? It's one of those things that if I need it, I'd rather deal with it now than later but if it works well without the remote then all the better. Thanks, Doug -7A.. Finish, electric, panel, baffling...busy.. wanting to fly (: __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: " bert murillo" <bert6(at)mybluelight.com>
Subject: Re: Reply to Whom?
Just curious why, if his e-mail address is listed, why would not, the message find his way direct to that w-mail address. It does not say rv-list... Bert Sign up for Internet Service under $10 dollars a month, at http://isp.BlueLight.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Fw: Doug Reeves' VAFWWW site
Date: Jul 21, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Doug Reeves" <vansairforce(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Doug Reeves' VAFWWW site > Hi. > > Saw your RV-List post. My ISP is changing over to faster machines and my > URL (http://www.metronet.com/~dreeves/vaf.htm) has changed to > http://new.metronet.com/~dreeves/vaf.htm. You simply change the 'www' to > 'new' > > I've updated the changes to network solutions to have the domain names I own > redirect to the new site, but this may take up to 72 hours. These are the > URLs affected: > www.vansairforce.net > www.vansaircraft.net > > Long story short..... go to http://new.metronet.com/~dreeves/vaf.htm to get > to the site. It is very much alive. In a day or so www.vansairforce.net > and www.vansaircraft.net will take you to the correct site also. > > If you could forward this to the RV-List I'd appreciate it. > > Sorry for the problems, but the site should be a little quicker shortly. > > Best, > Doug Reeves > www . VansAirForce . NET > > _________________________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon- External Magnetic Sensor
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Yep, I'm planning and wiring for it. I figure it'll be the most reliable way to have a good, accurate compass reading. Dynon said they'd probably be ready to ship the compass units in "mid July," but we're sort of there already and no sign of it. But the wiring harness is trivial to run for it...just four wires in the circuit, and Dynon said that using a 3-conductor shielded wire with ground running through the shield would be fine -- that's what I did. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "D. Jones" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Dynon- External Magnetic Sensor > > List: Those that are using the Dynon... Are you using > the external magnetic sensor? It's one of those > things that if I need it, I'd rather deal with it now > than later but if it works well without the remote > then all the better. > > Thanks, > Doug -7A.. Finish, electric, panel, baffling...busy.. > wanting to fly (: > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: AFP w/horizontal induction
Date: Jul 21, 2003
If anybody out there has installed Airflow Performance injection on an IO-360 with horizontal induction, please let me know. I'm having quite a bit of trouble visualizing the control cable setup! AFP just told me they haven't seen one installed on a horizontal induction engine yet. I was, um...surprised to hear that. Surely I can't be the first! The issue I'm having is that even if I move the throttle arm to the right side (FM-200), the action is reversed, and the sump itself gets in the way of doing anything useful with it. The mixture is a whole 'nuther issue just like that, where I'm at a loss as to how I'm going to rig up the control for it. Any help is much appreciated. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks(at)aol.com>
Subject: NACA Ducts
Date: Jul 21, 2003
In our first RV-4 I put two NACA ducts in the right canopy skirt,one forward and one aft. They gave very little fresh air to the front seat and were so noisy I had to plug them to use the radio. I didn't make the same mistake in our present RV-4. I use an intake from the front of the engine on the horizontzl baffle, with only a 1" hose to feed into a 2" cut-off valve box on the firewall. This gives enough fresh air for 95 degree WX in Arkansas. Of course I climb out to 4-5 K feet for cooler air. Good luck, Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X Charleston,Arlansas ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 21, 2003
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: NACA Ducts
Bob n' Lu Olds wrote: > >In our first RV-4 I put two NACA ducts in the right canopy skirt,one forward and one aft. They gave very little fresh air to the front seat and were so noisy I had to plug them to use the radio. >I didn't make the same mistake in our present RV-4. I use an intake from the front of the engine on the horizontzl baffle, with only a 1" hose to feed into a 2" cut-off valve box on the firewall. This gives enough fresh air for 95 degree WX in Arkansas. Of course I climb out to 4-5 K feet for cooler air. >Good luck, >Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X >Charleston,Arlansas > I can confirm the evaluation of canopy skirt naca vents. Noise level is about like an open cockpit biplane. Maybe worse. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
, , ,
Subject: I have an O-320 D1A, 200 hours TTSN, asking $16k
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Hi Guys & Gals, I've got a nice Lycoming O-320 D1A, 200 hours TTSN (total time since new), with factory carb, mags, and more... asking $16-k to a good home, I'm located in Coalinga California (middle of the state), I can't seem to get anyone in this state, everyone who's interested is from "out-of-state". I can deliver within reason. Give me a call or drop me an email if interested. Thanks, Chuck (559) 974-6733 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Re: AFP w/horizontal induction
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Hi Dan, I'm installing an AFP horizontal induction on an 0320 and I assume the situation is similar to yours. Throttle - I am using a throttle quadrant so I need to have the throttle lever on the F.I. move aft for full throttle. My throttle lever is on the left and pointed up which gives me the correct movement. The problem though, full movement of the long lever hole is 2 7/16 inches and of the short lever hole is 1 13/16 inches. A hole half way in between would exactly match the full range of the throttle cable which is 2 2/16 inches. Don Riviera recommended drilling a third hole in the lever in between the two existing and shortening the lever for clearance with the sump. I probably will do that when I convince myself the lever won't be overly weakened. Mixture - I wanted the mixture lever on the left side of the FI and to point up to for better clearance from the cowl at the bottom. However, forward movement of the cockpit mixture knob caused aft movement of the mixture lever which was idle cut-off . This is non standard so I sent the unit back to AFP to reverse the action of the mixture lever. With the above lever corrections made and the quadrant on the left, my throttle and mixture cables will go forward high enough to miss my feet and then curve down and through the firewall at about a 45 degree angle and then guadually curve up to align with the respective levers in a horizontal orientation. Just need to keep the radius of the cable bends guadual and use eyeball bulkhead fittings that allow for firewall penetration at up to 50 degrees off of perpendicular. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV-List: AFP w/horizontal induction > > If anybody out there has installed Airflow Performance injection on an > IO-360 with horizontal induction, please let me know. I'm having quite a > bit of trouble visualizing the control cable setup! AFP just told me they > haven't seen one installed on a horizontal induction engine yet. I was, > um...surprised to hear that. Surely I can't be the first! > > The issue I'm having is that even if I move the throttle arm to the right > side (FM-200), the action is reversed, and the sump itself gets in the way > of doing anything useful with it. > > The mixture is a whole 'nuther issue just like that, where I'm at a loss as > to how I'm going to rig up the control for it. > > Any help is much appreciated. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Subject: Re: checkered pattern
Seeing I just finished painting my RV-4 last weekend, including the checkerboard tail last Saturday, I felt inclined to chime in. I ended up masking and painting the checkers, and they turned out awesome! Mine is red and black. I painted the red base coat first. I used 4" checkers (really nice size on a RV-4, not too big, not too small). I used fine line tape and masked off every other vertical row. Then I used masking tape to cover rest. It only took about 1 hour to mask. I sprayed the black checkers and let it dry for about 48 hours. Then I removed all the masking and masked every other vertical row. I also scuff sanded each square and cleaned real good with laquer thinner before spraying the checkers. I know it sounds like a lot of work, but it really turned out nice. -Mike Kraus RV-4, finally painted! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net>
Subject: Fw: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs
Date: Jul 21, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Fogerson Subject: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs Hi Listers Does anyone know of a source for either all metal lock nuts or drilled nuts with 5/16 X 18 threads for the carb studs on the bottom of the engine. I would prefer either one to regular nuts with locktite or jam nuts. thanks, Rick Fogerson RV3 finish Boise, ID ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Subject: KX155 Squelch Question
I installed some electronics in my airplane, and it now appears that it is causing some interference in my radio. In particular it seems to act just like the squelch needs to be adjusted on the radio, although I cannot find any squelch adjustment. I have King KX-155, it has a pull to test (volume knob), but that does not adjust the squelch. When I transmit or the tower calls out, the radio is clear and fine, but when there is no transmissions, there is a ton of 'white noise' or static. The noise is exactly the same sound and loudness as when I pull to test on the volume knob. It appears to work fine on some frequencies, but not on all frequencies. I have adjusted the squelch on the intercom, but it just appears to set the level for the voice activation on the mic, not on the radio. To me it seems like I need to adjust the squelch. Is that possible on a KX155, I have an older radio that is out of warranty so I am not afraid to open it up if there is a potentiometer or some way to adjust it. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Mike Kraus RV-4, flying and now painted! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>

Subject: SoCal Wing July 2003 Newsletter
Date: Jul 21, 2003
On behalf of Linas Danilevicius, RV-7A builder extraordinaire and the editor/producer of the SoCal Wing's now-monthly Newsletter, I want to post the link to the newsletter for anybody and everybody to check it out. Linas does a fantastic job putting this together. http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/July2003.pdf In case you're interested, earlier newsletters (there's only one from June at this point) are also available here: http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/ )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: right brake line across engine mount (taildragger)
Date: Jul 21, 2003
Taildraggers: I'm running the brake lines from the AN fittings at the firewall down to the brake cylinders. Got the left side done no problem. The right side is leaving me with a few choices, though, specifically how to route the aluminum tubing along/through the bottom of the engine mount. Is there a standard way of doing this, i.e. always route the right brake line in front of the bottom lateral tube (in front so the tubing can be removed in one piece without bending), use Adel clamps -or- electrical tape & 1/4" tubing for protection, etc.? Just curious if anybody has a photo or a description of their right brake line installation. Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: AFP w/horizontal induction
I saw this type problem at the local airport with a Ellison system. Either you will need longer cables so they U turn and come in from the front, meaning pointing towards the tail of the plane after installing. Or you could make up a bell crank system to reverse the throw using the standard cables and routing. I like the idea of longer cables myself........if they will fit? > >If anybody out there has installed Airflow Performance injection on an >IO-360 with horizontal induction, please let me know. I'm having quite a >bit of trouble visualizing the control cable setup! AFP just told me they >haven't seen one installed on a horizontal induction engine yet. I was, >um...surprised to hear that. Surely I can't be the first! > >The issue I'm having is that even if I move the throttle arm to the right >side (FM-200), the action is reversed, and the sump itself gets in the way >of doing anything useful with it. > >The mixture is a whole 'nuther issue just like that, where I'm at a loss as >to how I'm going to rig up the control for it. > >Any help is much appreciated. > >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com>
Subject: AFP w/horizontal induction
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Throttle - I am using a throttle quadrant so I need to have the throttle lever on the F.I. move aft for full throttle. My throttle lever is on the left and pointed up which gives me the correct movement. The problem though, full movement of the long lever hole is 2 7/16 inches and of the short lever hole is 1 13/16 inches. A hole half way in between would exactly match the full range of the throttle cable which is 2 2/16 inches. Don Riviera recommended drilling a third hole in the lever in between the two existing and shortening the lever for clearance with the sump. I probably will do that when I convince myself the lever won't be overly weakened. Rick, If you are able to change the push-pull direction of the cable end a little, you can get the 2 7/16 throw without having to move the throttle lever that much. Lay it our on graph paper. jb AFP vertical induction ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PGLong(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Subject: Prop mfg. and crack
Hi Group Looking for some help in determining what brand of prop came with the partially built RV4 I purchased a year ago. For a description it has this part number stamped in the wood. 68X66-20=A0=A0 I know the size is 68 "with a 66" pitch, but that is all. It is made of 6 layers of what looks like it could be birch or maple and glued with resorcinol because the glue is black in color. It has something like a Teflon coating on the leading edge and back side and also has the same material except white on the front side at the tips for 7-1/2". I suppose it could be paint but seems not to be. The balance is clear finish of some kind. Anyone have any ideas? Reason for my concern is that looking into the 2-3/16" bored hole in the center I can a crack in the end grain radiating out towards each of the tips. The small crack is only about=A0 2-1/2" in length. This area has no finish on it and I'm thinking these cracks are from moisture getting into and out of the wood. But to be safe, I would like to contact the manufacture or even send back for his advice. Thanks in advance for your help. Pat Long RV-4 in Michigan 85% done ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: so much for retreads
Date: Jul 22, 2003
After recommendations from Vans and others, I opted this time to replace my worn tires with retreads. They last twice as long and cost half the price I'm told. They are also just a little bit bigger than original tires. Just bigger enough so that a single flight, there is now a big hole on the top of my left wheel pant and some early abrading on the right side too. Perfect example of things that you think are too good to be true, probably are. Anyway, if anyone wants a free set of one landing old 5x500 retreads, they are yours for the cost of shipping. Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: RV-4 Canopy skirt chafing
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Things that we do to our airplanes should look like we did them for a purpose, not to fix something. I have seen several "fixes" for the canopy skirt rubbing and, to me, they looked like "fixes": something that was correcting something else that was going on. We have rubber channels on other parts of the airplane: the wing-to-fuselage intersection, for example. I used a rubber "U" channel, with one side of the "U" being a tad longer than the other, the longer side being inside. It works well and looks like it belongs there, like I did it on purpose. Which I did. NOT that the other fixes don't look like they belong. Black rubber channel looks good and is functional. IMHO, only. Mine looks good to me. Which is what matters, after all. Do something that looks OK to you. At OSH, look at the various ideas. Then do yours. Someone will be looking at yours one day and say, hey, that looks good; that was a good idea. Michael ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gene Polenske" <Rv8tor(at)centurytel.net>
Subject: Wing rib riveting question
Date: Jul 22, 2003
I have a question to those who have gone before me. I am now riveting the wing ribs to the forward spar on my RV-8. The edges of the rib flange are curling up 1/32" to 1/16" especially the corners. Is this normal? I used clecos in every hole, and the rib flange laid flat against the spar web before. I assume it's from the metal stretching as the rivet expands. Is this right or am I doing something wrong. Thanks, Gene Polenske RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Wing rib riveting question
Date: Jul 22, 2003
> >I have a question to those who have gone before me. I am now riveting the >wing ribs to the forward spar on my RV-8. The edges of the rib flange are >curling up 1/32" to 1/16" especially the corners. > >Is this normal? I used clecos in every hole, and the rib flange laid flat >against the spar web before. I assume it's from the metal stretching as >the rivet expands. Is this right or am I doing something wrong. > >Thanks, >Gene Polenske >RV-8 Wings It's happening due to rivet shank expansion and compression of the shop head. It's normal. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2003
From: terence.gannon(at)telus.net
Subject: Re: Wing rib riveting question
Gene -- as Brian has already said, this is normal...I think it's fair to say to virtually everybody has experienced it at one time or another. However, I did come across a technique this past weekend (while visiting another fella's project) that had a GREAT tip on how to avoid it, should you want to -- at least for the most part. Take a small piece of heavy rubber sheet that is *slightly* thinner than the tail of the unset rivet. Drill a hole slightly larger than the size of the rivet shank towards one edge so that you can slip the hole over the unset rivet. Now shoot and buck the rivet the way you normally do. The first couple of taps will set the rivet enough so that the tail and the rubber will now be the same thickness. For the balance of the setting process, the rubber keeps the flange pressed nice and flat against the mating surface. I watched as the guy did this on a number of problem rivets, and it seemed to work like a charm, every time. I'll be giving it a try the next time I'm in this type of situation. Hope this helps! Best regards... Terry in Calgary RV-6 S/N 24414 "Wings" Quoting Gene Polenske : > > I have a question to those who have gone before me. I am now riveting the > wing ribs to the forward spar on my RV-8. The edges of the rib flange are > curling up 1/32" to 1/16" especially the corners. > > Is this normal? I used clecos in every hole, and the rib flange laid flat > against the spar web before. I assume it's from the metal stretching as the > rivet expands. Is this right or am I doing something wrong. > > Thanks, > Gene Polenske > RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: so much for retreads
Date: Jul 22, 2003
The tires go to Ed Bundy who was the first to ask less than 5 minutes after I posted the offer. Ed apparently has oversized draggy wheel pants that can handle these big retreads. A good thing to know if you ever get the chance to wager on a race. Andy Builder's Bookstore http://buildersbooks.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Aircraft Technical Book Company <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> Subject: RV-List: so much for retreads > > After recommendations from Vans and others, I opted this time to replace my > worn tires with retreads. They last twice as long and cost half the price > I'm told. They are also just a little bit bigger than original tires. Just > bigger enough so that a single flight, there is now a big hole on the top of > my left wheel pant and some early abrading on the right side too. > > Perfect example of things that you think are too good to be true, probably > are. > > Anyway, if anyone wants a free set of one landing old 5x500 retreads, they > are yours for the cost of shipping. > > Andy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James Jula" <jmjula(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Wing rib riveting question
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Are you putting the machine head of the rivet on the flange? It is a bit more difficult to rivet, but the curling will go away. James -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gene Polenske Subject: RV-List: Wing rib riveting question I have a question to those who have gone before me. I am now riveting the wing ribs to the forward spar on my RV-8. The edges of the rib flange are curling up 1/32" to 1/16" especially the corners. Is this normal? I used clecos in every hole, and the rib flange laid flat against the spar web before. I assume it's from the metal stretching as the rivet expands. Is this right or am I doing something wrong. Thanks, Gene Polenske RV-8 Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2003
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: SSP
The MS20257-3 hinge that ties in the upper and lower cowl on my 6A uses a standard .089 SSP. After inserting the pin 3/4 of the way in, the fit gets too snug for my liking. I could rework the hinges to make for a looser fit, but a much easier way would be to find a hinge pin with a diameter between .080-085. Does such an animal exist? If so where? --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: SSP
Date: Jul 22, 2003
rub some candle wax on the pin....I bet it will help. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: SSP > > The MS20257-3 hinge that ties in the upper and lower cowl on my 6A uses a standard .089 SSP. After inserting the pin 3/4 of the way in, the fit gets too snug for my liking. I could rework the hinges to make for a looser fit, but a much easier way would be to find a hinge pin with a diameter between .080-085. Does such an animal exist? If so where? > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Rquinn1(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Subject: Re: SSP
Another solution is to get an extra hinge pin of the same diameter and file one end slanted sharp as the point of a chisel then chuck the hinge pin in your drill and start the pin down the cowl hinges. The point will round out the bends and cut the hinge loops enough though allow the real hinge pin to be inserted. Worked for me. Rollie & Rod 6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: SSP
> >The MS20257-3 hinge that ties in the upper and lower cowl on my 6A >uses a standard .089 SSP. After inserting the pin 3/4 of the way >in, the fit gets too snug for my liking. I could rework the hinges >to make for a looser fit, but a much easier way would be to find a >hinge pin with a diameter between .080-085. Does such an animal >exist? If so where? > I found that a bit of Boelube made a huge difference. I also used a ScotchBrite wheel to put an off-centre tapered end on the pin. The off-centre aspect really helps it catch the hinge eyes, if you rotate it slowly as you insert it. At first, I could only get them in if I cucked them in a drill to rotate them. After a few cycles of insert and remove, I can now get them in by hand. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)carlsbad.net>
Subject: Re: so much for retreads
Date: Jul 22, 2003
> > The tires go to Ed Bundy who was the first to ask less than 5 minutes after > I posted the offer. Ed apparently has oversized draggy wheel pants that can > handle these big retreads. A good thing to know if you ever get the chance > to wager on a race. > I use retreads and am very happy with them. I have the new Van's pressure recovery wheelpants, installed per instructions with the original equipment tires. Draggy? I guess, but I documented reduced drag compared to the smaller wheelpants I originally had installed. Sorry I missed out on the offer. In a related matter, the last tire change I changed to the Michelin Airstop tubes and will not go back. Since this change in May I have not added air. It used to be about every two weeks. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 22, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: so much for retreads
Larry Pardue wrote: > > > > > >>The tires go to Ed Bundy who was the first to ask less than 5 minutes > > after > >>I posted the offer. Ed apparently has oversized draggy wheel pants that > > can > >>handle these big retreads. A good thing to know if you ever get the > > chance > >>to wager on a race. >> > > > I use retreads and am very happy with them. I have the new Van's pressure > recovery wheelpants, installed per instructions with the original equipment > tires. Draggy? I guess, but I documented reduced drag compared to the > smaller wheelpants I originally had installed. > > Sorry I missed out on the offer. > > In a related matter, the last tire change I changed to the Michelin Airstop > tubes and will not go back. Since this change in May I have not added air. > It used to be about every two weeks. > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6 N441LP Flying > http://www.carlsbadnm.com/n5lp/index.htm > I too can testify that they ARE NOT "draggy," Van himself told me that I should see about 6 mph when I installed them. I see a good honest 4 mph and I have not yet installed the lower wheel pant cuff. the last set of tires I bought are Desser retreads and so far I have been very happy with them. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "aronsond" <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Microair T2000 SFL Sale
Date: Jul 22, 2003
Garry: Received your check today. Will deposit and send unit tomorrow. You should get in two days. I will let you know tracking No. Thanks, Off to Kosh...... Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Garry LeGare" <versadek(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair T2000 SFL Sale > > Dave, I'll take it if it's still available. > > aronsond wrote: > > > > >Lister: > >I have a new, never opened Microair T2000 SFL for sale. Chiefs wants > >$1415.00 for it. I will sell for 1200. It comes with 1 year warantee from > >supplier (from time aircraft is flying). Going to Ebay in a day or so. > >Dave Aronson > >N504RV RV4 > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Jul 23, 2003
Subject: Re: Fw: Metal lock nuts for 5/16 X 18 carb studs
In a message dated 7/21/2003 8:59:20 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rickf(at)cableone.net writes: > Does anyone know of a source for either all metal lock nuts or drilled nuts > with 5/16 X 18 threads for the carb studs on the bottom of the engine. I > would prefer either one to regular nuts with Loctite or jam nuts. McMaster-Carr has them. P/N 91839A127 pkg of 5 is around $10. Contact info is in the Yeller Pages. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 615hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Meketa" <acgm(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: AC rated switches for DC (was:Electrical question)
Date: Jul 23, 2003
Hello Yall The AC/DC switch specs. discusion never came to a helpful end. I promised to write no more on the subject, but felt the overwelming desire to get down to the truth on the subject. The problem is that there is no real answer as far as our small 14 volt aircraft are involved. I will not attempt to give any answers one way or another, but the data as I have found it. You can come to your own conclusions 1. The EAA switch article in the April issue of Experimenter. I have not found a copy of the article, but talked to a structural DER who read it and heard enough to have an idea of its content. Basically the author recommended nothing but DC rated switches. I would like a link to or copy of the article if anyone has one. 2. An article on the same subject and possibly the same one as above. http://safetydata.com/switches.htm Some of the data in the article has no real meaning in our application. Points in an coil system have nothing to do with the type of switches used in our aircraft. Also I have my doubts to a fast acting switch contact welding itself together. Has anyone had a set of toggle switch contacts weld together? 3. Another switch article http://www.sbw.org/switches/. How are AC only rated switches on a certified aircraft. Just looking at the original and the FAA certified replacement it is obvious that the load carrying ability of the switches is in question for landing lamps and pitot heat. Nothing to do with ratings, they just look too cheaply built to take any type of heat from the contact or terminals. Notice the mention of Aeroelectric Connection and the quality push-on terminal description. 4.Some data from the Carling Switch web site. http://www.carlingtech.com/products/switches/faq.asp?cat=2#11 Q: What DC current and voltage will an AC rated switch handle? A: The DC current "rule of thumb" holds that the highest amperage rating on the switch should perform satisfactorily up to 30 volts DC. For example, if you have an F Series toggle switch which is rated at 10A 250VAC, 15A 125-250VAC, the DC rating is 15A up to 30VDC This is from the manufacturer that supplies the switches on the certified Piper and Grumman, also the switches sold by Aeroelectric. I have a few doubts to such a crossover, but there it is from the manufacturer. Why do the actual switch specs not show these ratings from them?? The description for several of their switches mentions rated for AC and DC but no DC mentioned in the specs?? 5.Not really related, but mentions DC circuits and the use of high quality switches at the end. http://lists.rnib.org.uk/pipermail/tbtalk/2003-March/000257.html 6.The article by Bob Knuckles on switch ratings http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/swtchrat.pdf A lot of common sense with years of experience. I do not tend to agree with everything he suggests (who cares? I do) , but he does know what he is talking about. I have no personal doubts on the switch info. 7. I talked to an Engineer at Raytheon who designs electrical systems for aircraft STC,s. He had no real answers for my questions, but would have no problem using a name brand, high quality, AC only switch in a DC application with the same ratings at 14 volts DC as the switch is rated for 125 lots AC. He stated that only ring terminals or solder leads to the switch are used by him. 8. I also talked to two DER's. Both electrical engineers. They were less help as they mainly worked on larger commercial aircraft. Both stated they had no problems with the above statement, but had a few issues with lamp and motor loads. They like to see a switch rating at least 5 times the lamp current draw due to the high inrush current to light the lamp and 2 1/2 times the electric motor running draw due to high start up surge currents. This is under ideal conditions and there was the realization that sometimes there is no choice but to run the lower than ideally rated switch as long as it meets the working limit by at least 50%. They both felt that the more expensive AC switches have sufficient contact size and quality to work. There was some discussion concerning contact life and the installation of suppression diodes to help prevent arcing, but no conclusions were made. It seems that there is no ideal answer to the switch question. The actual rating has no true meaning, just that it was tested and passed under some specific conditions. Switch quality should mean something. If it is inexpensive (LIKE 2 DOLLARS) it likely lot well built. If it looks and feels high quality with good AC ratings it is likely fine. In conclusion. Well, I have none. George Meketa RV8, N444TX, 356.8 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Microair 760 Transceiver
Date: Jul 23, 2003
Listers I'm just wiring in a Microair 760 transceiver and am puzzled why I should need a separate intercom. The unit appears to have an inbuilt intercom, is this not adequate or am I missing something. Neil Henderson RV9-A Aylesbury UK ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: Microair 760 Transceiver
Date: Jul 23, 2003
Neil... The 760 does indeed have a built in intercom, but it is a "hot mic" not a VOX intercom, and in an RV that would not be good... You would have install and use a button just to talk on the intercom, or you would be forced to listen to the ambient sounds of the cockpit all the time... I have a 760 in my -8A, and I also have a PS Engineering PM3000 Stereo intercom... -Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> Subject: RV-List: Microair 760 Transceiver Listers I'm just wiring in a Microair 760 transceiver and am puzzled why I should need a separate intercom. The unit appears to have an inbuilt intercom, is this not adequate or am I missing something. Neil Henderson RV9-A Aylesbury UK ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: SSP
Try the wax after painting!! I have been told that they will loosen with time, how much time I dont know. > >rub some candle wax on the pin....I bet it will help. > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> >To: >Subject: RV-List: SSP > > >> >> The MS20257-3 hinge that ties in the upper and lower cowl on my 6A uses a >standard .089 SSP. After inserting the pin 3/4 of the way in, the fit gets >too snug for my liking. I could rework the hinges to make for a looser fit, >but a much easier way would be to find a hinge pin with a diameter between >.080-085. Does such an animal exist? If so where? >> >> >> --------------------------------- >> >> > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: SSP
Date: Jul 19, 2003
Reading the (again) spate of recent posts on getting the cowl hinges to slide in easily, makes me wonder how many builders are out there that still have to fit their cowl to their airframe! I contributed a List Post on 11/13/02 on what I did on mine, as pasted below: >Amazing! I'm sorry for all you guys (Dolls?) that are having trouble with >your hinges.You obviously haven't read about how to install them like I did, >as recorded in the third issue, 1999, of the RVator, pg 7 graciously >reproduced there by Ken Scott. The secret is to install the rivets AFTER the >epoxy has set! Then the hinges are not distorted as when you do it BEFORE. >The article details how I went about it. Suffice it to say that after the >riveting, I was able to pull-out (and re-insert) the hinge pins with my >fingers! I presume that this post and a follow-up one dated 11/14/02, are in the archives, but I haven't bothered to look. Cheers!! ---Henry Hore. CYCC, Cornwall, Ontario. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Jul 23, 2003
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: SSP
Another solution is to get an extra hinge pin of the same diameter and file one end slanted sharp as the point of a chisel then chuck the hinge pin in your drill and start the pin down the cowl hinges.The point will round out the bends and cut the hinge loops enough though allow the real hinge pin to be inserted.Worked for me.Rollie & Rod6A Many thanks to all who responded. One thing leads to another. The chisel technique and a little Boelube worked perfectly. I took advantage of the chiseled end of the pin to drill through the firewall. The pin(s) cannot migrate aft past the NACA vent(s) and I can now terminate the forward cowl pin insertion holes with a simple plate. I saw a rather elegant design shaped something like an elongated and beveled triangle that attached to the cowl with a flush screw at Oshkosh one year, capturing the pin. Beautifully done. Something similiar on my part will take care of any chance of the pin migrating forward into the prop. Again, thanks for all the responses. Rick Galati RV-6A FWF --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: NACA Ducts Installation
Date: Jul 23, 2003
The "high pressure = no air" comment stumped me too. Talk about non-obvious results! But just to muddy the water a bit more, My RV-4 canopy skirt NACA inlet (for passenger) works like gang busters. My front seat NACA (ala Van's plans) gets good airflow but it is obviously hotter than OAT air. Thank You to whoever posted the test results and explained why. My inlets are on the RIGHT side and my prop rotates LEFT (opposite of Lyc) so your milage may vary. Details matter. Tracy Crook > > Hi Guys > > I don't know about the high and low pressure areas, but I have mine just > under the cheek extensions and get LOTS of air. A friend I fly with has one > on the canopy skirt, gets no air in and lots of noise. Has it plugged with > a rag most of the time. In the older 4 plans and manual Vans use to > indicate that they went on the canopy skirt. Now I think they suggest under > the wing. I think it would be very hard to get the air from the wing to a > vent on the panel. I just have short piece of scat tube and it works great. > A second vent under the wing would probably be great for the rear seater. I > have no provision for air in the back. > > Cheers > > Joe Hine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: starter ring/flywheel
Date: Jul 23, 2003
List: Does anyone know if a starter ring (122 tooth)/flywheel from an 0235-L2C would fit an O320-E2D? Thanks Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A fuselage (waiting for finish kit) Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Microair 760 Transceiver
Date: Jul 23, 2003
For those yet to order their radio and want something like the Microair 760, I've been looking at a seemingly similar but *better* functional/performaning radio called the XCOM 760 (they provide a direct comparison chart against the Microair model as well as others). I specifically asked them about their intercom function and they said the built in intercom function was identical to their standalone intercom they sell which I'll send links to (sounds too good to be true): http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/comparison/comparison.html http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/intercom/intercom.html

December 30, 2002 - July 23, 2003

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