RV-Archive.digest.vol-og

September 15, 2003 - September 29, 2003



      >than on a horizontal surface where they seem to just lay as the fell?
      >Anybody with metallic painting experience that can offer some insight or
      >suggestions?  I still need to do my wing LE's and want them to look good...
      >
      >Thanks,
      >
      >--Mark Navratil
      >Cedar Rapids, Iowa
      >RV-8A N2D painting...learning everything the hard way...
      >
      >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
      >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
      >
      >
      >---
      >Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
      >
      >---
      >
      >
      
      Bill Dube 
      http://www.killacycle.com/Lights.htm
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2003
From: Blake Avant <planesense2002(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Whelen Strobe Power Supplies for Sale
I have USED Whelen Strobe Power supplies for sale. I have 1, 2, and > 3 strobe power supplies in working condition. I have tested each of > these units for proper operation. The cost for these units is $75 to > $125, plus shipping. You can email me for current inventory, I will > send pictures and price of the unit. > > These are surplus and salvage units that have been tested and proven > to be fully operational. If you have the desire to repair units, I > have others that do not work and will sell these for half the price > of the working units. > > Blake Avant __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Rolling Elevator leading Edges
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Anyone have a good procedure and/or pictures for rolling the leading edges of the control surfaces? Are people cutting down lengths of broomsticks and doing a cut-out section at a time, or do they do it all at once? I just followed the directions and rolled the whole thing at once (after using the edge-rolling tool on both edges). It seemed to produce different curvatures from inboard to outboard ends. I then got the bright idea of "fixing" it with the hand seamer, and put little indentions all along the inboard edge. I'm more disgusted with the results of this than any other part to date. I haven't started the right elevator or the rudder, so I am hoping I can do it better on those pieces. A quick search of the archives didn't do much help. Also, is anyone using an alternative pop-rivet in that area? The AD-41s specified in the plans sure seem wimpy. Thanks in advance for any help, Scott 7A Emmp/Wings Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: paint weight and coats required
Date: Sep 16, 2003
HOW MUCH WEIGHT!! ----- Original Message ----- From: <czechsix(at)juno.com> Subject: RV-List: paint weight and coats required > > > Guys, > > I thought I'd offer some insight for those of you who are interested in saving weight on your paint job. I have learned (again, the hard way) that for a given color, certain paint brands cover (or "hide") better than others, and from a weight/time/money standpoint, obviously the fewer coats it takes to cover the plane the better. I knew before I started painting that some colors tend to need more coats than others....for example I've heard that yellow airplanes tend to be a bit heavier (or is this hearsay??) due to more coats needed. > > Anyway my paint scheme (T-6A JPATS in USAF markings) is mostly blue and white with red stripe. I am using Sherwin Williams Genesis series which is an acrylic urethane (designed to replace the Sunfire acrylic urethane series). I picked the Genesis paint over DuPont Imron 5000 (the two offerings from my local paint shop) because it is a bit less expensive and easier to buff out any small flaws. Being a novice painter I thought this was a good thing. But the downside I've discovered is that the single-stage dark blue color that I'm using requires at least 3 wet coats to get full color coverage. This is over a grey primer, and I might get by with only two coats using a black or dark blue tinted primer. Anyway it's a real bummer because it takes more time and most of all adds WEIGHT. I've tried to keep my airplane light so this is discouraging. Several people I've talked to who've used dark blue DuPont Imron or PPG Concept have said they only needed 1-2 coats. Dave Wilso! > n for example (who's nice USAF-themed red/white/blue RV-8 was featured a few weeks ago in RV of the Week) told me he only needed a single coat of each color, with PPG Concept). If I had known this, I'd have used Imron or Concept instead of Genesis just for weight savings, and ironically, might even save money since less paint is required (even though Imron is more expensive than Genesis). > > The twist according to local painters I've talked to is that while this is true for dark blue, it may be just the opposite for a different color. For example, I was told that red Imron doesn't cover as well as red Genesis. Ah, too bad my whole airplane isn't red instead of just the stripe : ) > > The one and only advantage to using 3 coats of dark blue Genesis is that it does have great "depth"....a really nice wet look with a single-stage paint that if buffed out would probably rival a 2-stage (clearcoat). But the reason I would not clearcoat an airplane--or use dark blue Genesis again--is because IMHO the weight gain and expense and time to apply is not worth the slightly nicer looks you get compared to using minimal coats of a good-hiding single-stage paint. > > Why didn't somebody tell me all this before I started? : ) > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D painting....crying....painting....whining... > > The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic(at)starband.net>
Subject: Rolling Elevator leading Edges
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Use the broomstick method and do the whole length at a time. You need a vise-grip on EACH END of the broomstick to get consistent results the full length. Bend the outer edge in a bit before doing this, so it sits tight to the inner edge. Yes, I did use better rivets. See details on my empennage page. http://brian76.mystarband.net/rv7a/empennage/EmpennageBuild.htm brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com Subject: RV-List: Rolling Elevator leading Edges Anyone have a good procedure and/or pictures for rolling the leading edges of the control surfaces? Are people cutting down lengths of broomsticks and doing a cut-out section at a time, or do they do it all at once? I just followed the directions and rolled the whole thing at once (after using the edge-rolling tool on both edges). It seemed to produce different curvatures from inboard to outboard ends. I then got the bright idea of "fixing" it with the hand seamer, and put little indentions all along the inboard edge. I'm more disgusted with the results of this than any other part to date. I haven't started the right elevator or the rudder, so I am hoping I can do it better on those pieces. A quick search of the archives didn't do much help. Also, is anyone using an alternative pop-rivet in that area? The AD-41s specified in the plans sure seem wimpy. Thanks in advance for any help, Scott 7A Emmp/Wings Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Rolling Elevator leading Edges
> > >Anyone have a good procedure and/or pictures for rolling the leading edges >of the control surfaces? I used a length of steel pipe. The first one did not come out as well as the last one :) I found that it all worked much better if I held the pipe to the table with a couple of C-clamps. I didn't crank down hard with the clamps. I put the clamps in position, twisted the pipe a bit with a pipe wrench, then repositioned the clamps, etc. Seemed to work very well. Definitely much more "under control" than the "all manual" method. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow(at)fedex.com>
Subject: Re: Stobes and Power Supplies
First off, I have not been getting emails from the list for a number of weeks (and have not had time to investigate), so if you respond to this please do so directly to CSBRUMBELOW(at)FEDEX.COM I am preparing to mount my strobes/nav lights and power supplies and have seen NO documentation, suggestions, etc. from Vans or anywhere else. I did some research in the archives and came up empty (not to say I didn't miss it). I have the wingtip set up: each wingtip fixture has the position light, strobe light, and rear-facing white light. I have a power supply for each unit. I also have the "standard" wingtips for the RV-8. Additionally, my intent is to mount the power supplies on the outer most rib of each wing. This leads to three questions: 1) Is there a "best" recommended placement/methodology for mounting the power supplies on this outer rib? What about water protection, any strengthening/doubling of the rib structure, etc. required? 2) How high up on the outer side of the wingtip should the strobe/nav/etc. light fixtures be mounted? Obviously they need to be high enough such that they give the required convergence over the top of the aircraft, but not so high that I am seeing them (especially the strobe) from the cockpit. 3) Is the light mounting plate simply mounted directly to the wingtip surface, or do people typically use some kind of filler (i.e., RTV) between it and the wingtip? Thanks! Scott in MEM Finally at the airport!!!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stobes and Power Supplies
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Scott, I mounted my power supplies on the spar plate out on the end of the wing. Four nutplates! My DAR said no doubler would be necessary. I'm using the spar plate as a local ground and will bond the other end at the center of the fuse. My hi-power runs are very short to the end of the tip to the same type of lights that you've described. Van's sells a spacer plate made out of fiberglas that puts the light assy in the correct spot/angle. I have pictures of my power supply mounting at home if you want Ralph Capen RV6A Richardson, TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Brumbelow" <csbrumbelow(at)fedex.com> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stobes and Power Supplies > > First off, I have not been getting emails from the list for a number of weeks (and > have not had time to investigate), so if you respond to this please do so directly > to CSBRUMBELOW(at)FEDEX.COM > > I am preparing to mount my strobes/nav lights and power supplies and have seen NO > documentation, suggestions, etc. from Vans or anywhere else. I did some research in > the archives and came up empty (not to say I didn't miss it). > > I have the wingtip set up: each wingtip fixture has the position light, strobe > light, and rear-facing white light. I have a power supply for each unit. I also > have the "standard" wingtips for the RV-8. Additionally, my intent is to mount the > power supplies on the outer most rib of each wing. This leads to three questions: > > 1) Is there a "best" recommended placement/methodology for mounting the power > supplies on this outer rib? What about water protection, any strengthening/doubling > of the rib structure, etc. required? > 2) How high up on the outer side of the wingtip should the strobe/nav/etc. light > fixtures be mounted? Obviously they need to be high enough such that they give the > required convergence over the top of the aircraft, but not so high that I am seeing > them (especially the strobe) from the cockpit. > 3) Is the light mounting plate simply mounted directly to the wingtip surface, > or do people typically use some kind of filler (i.e., RTV) between it and the > wingtip? > > Thanks! > Scott in MEM > Finally at the airport!!!!! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Rolling Elevator leading Edges
Date: Sep 16, 2003
> I found that it all worked much better if I held the pipe to the >table with a couple of C-clamps. I didn't crank down hard with the clamps. I used a length of 3/4" copper water pipe with a 90 degree elbow soldered on one end and a 1' stub soldered into the elbow to act as cranking handles. Worked perfectly. I too, used clamps to hold the pipe in place as I cranked it, but I used 2--12"carpenter's "Jensen" wood clamps with the opening set to just over the diameter of the pipe, plus the thickness of the table base. "C" clamps are used to hold the Jensen clamps to the table and the whole set-up then is firm but the pipe is free to move as it is rotated. Cheers!!------Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: LRI
vansairforce Hi all... I have an LRI - www.liftreserve.com - in my -8A and seem to remember there were two parties involved in this company that split apart to form two separate companies... The one above is still selling the analog gauge, and the other developed an LED instrument... Anyone have any info the LED version? -Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Subject: Re: LRI
From: <racker(at)rmci.net>
> Anyone have any info the LED version? www.liftreserve.net BTW, any comments (positive, negative, does it help your approaches, etc) on the LRI in your RV-8? I'm still wanting some type of AOA device, love to hear real world user experiences vs manufacturer hype. Rob Acker (RV-6 flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: Re: LRI
www.liftreserve.net Ken ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 11:27:39 -0600 > >Hi all... > >I have an LRI - www.liftreserve.com - in my -8A and seem to remember there were two parties involved in this company that split apart to form two separate companies... The one above is still selling the analog gauge, and the other developed an LED instrument... > >Anyone have any info the LED version? > > >-Bill VonDane >RV-8A >www.vondane.com >www.creativair.com >www.epanelbuilder.com > The Internet Truckstop The first and largest freight matching service on the Intenet ______________ ______________ ______________ ______________ Sent via the KillerWebMail system at truckstop.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Rolling Elevator leading Edges
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Scott, On the first one I did the whole thing at once and on the second I tried each segment separately. In comparing, I found doing them separately to be easier. It also seemed to come out better but that could be due to the practice of already completing one? I also used an edge roller on the outside edge of the second one I did after advise from the list and that made a huge difference. I wish I had used it on the first one because it made the edges seam together perfectly and I highly recommend you do the same. -Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com Subject: RV-List: Rolling Elevator leading Edges Anyone have a good procedure and/or pictures for rolling the leading edges of the control surfaces? Are people cutting down lengths of broomsticks and doing a cut-out section at a time, or do they do it all at once? I just followed the directions and rolled the whole thing at once (after using the edge-rolling tool on both edges). It seemed to produce different curvatures from inboard to outboard ends. I then got the bright idea of "fixing" it with the hand seamer, and put little indentions all along the inboard edge. I'm more disgusted with the results of this than any other part to date. I haven't started the right elevator or the rudder, so I am hoping I can do it better on those pieces. A quick search of the archives didn't do much help. Also, is anyone using an alternative pop-rivet in that area? The AD-41s specified in the plans sure seem wimpy. Thanks in advance for any help, Scott 7A Emmp/Wings Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: LRI
Rob... The LRI works great... I check it out every time I do stalls and crap, but to tell you the truth, I never really look at it under normal flying... -Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: <racker(at)rmci.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: LRI > Anyone have any info the LED version? www.liftreserve.net BTW, any comments (positive, negative, does it help your approaches, etc) on the LRI in your RV-8? I'm still wanting some type of AOA device, love to hear real world user experiences vs manufacturer hype. Rob Acker (RV-6 flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Subject: RV Forum EAA 486 Summary
The 9th annual RV Forum was held Saturday September 13th 2003 at the EAA chapter 486 Facility, KFZY-Oswego County Airport, Fulton New York. That Saturday was centered on a weekend long event, which many flyer/driver tent campers partook of. While the poor weather Saturday was a mild deterrent, 20 RVs were on the field for Saturdays event. As well some 90+-paid forum attendees who enjoyed the classroom environment that these forum-technical presentations at EAA 486 are known for. This included displaying both a flying RV6 less the cowls, and a fuselage of an RV8 Subaru FWF, trailered in especially for the event. Other Number details would include 5 production Aircraft, 1 Cozy, 1 Glastar, 140 Lunches served and about 90 for the evening banquet wrap up. They were entertained as guest speaker, author, historian Mr. Kirk House and the Glenn Curtiss story was told about central New Yorks Ultimate Aviation Experimenter. All the way form Oregon, Mr. Mike Seager gets extra credit for fighting through the weather front to arrive at the forum and give his scheduled lessons. As KFZY it self remained VFR most of the time, I believe just about all the lessons were given, and his continued support is appreciated, THANK YOU MIKE!!!. Finally we need to mention the Peoples Choice awards. This year it is no surprise that Rick Grays (Vincent, Ohio) pristine RV6 took top honors in the RV side-by-side category. As well the beautiful RV8 of Bill Flaherty (Irwin, PA) took the award in the RV Tandem configuration. It was our pleasure to host such nice planes once again at EAA 486. Many thanks go out to our paid attendees who travel from all over in their cars, to our technical presenters, to the pilot-builder supporters who flew in and finally the many vendor material and door prize donators. The 10th annual RV Forum is in planning stages already. Pencil in Saturday September 11th, 2004. The featured banquet speaker is tentative, but we will continue to secure Mr. Bob McClurg, F4U Corsair pilotwingman to Pappy Boyington of the famed Black Sheep Squadron. Respectfully submitted David McManmon President EAA 486 RV6 N58DM Builder-Pilot DNA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: First Flight RV-4
Date: Sep 16, 2003
I flew N996NC for the first time today. Wow! I had been doing transition training in a friend's RV-4 and I was so happy mine flew as nice as his. I did have a heavy left wing, but because of this list, I know what to do about that. Real flight testing starts tomorrow. I hope I can sleep tonight. Thanks guys. Ron Calhoun RV-4 FLYING ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2003
From: Nels Hanson <pa201950(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re:Short Field
I have a 160 HP Sterba prop RV-6 that I go in and out of my 1,100 ft. farm strip(705 msl). Since I have trees at both ends I restrict my activities at 85 degrees F and no wind conditions. Not bad for cruising at 170 mph IFR. What more does a person need? --- Bob n' Lu Olds wrote: > > > Just HOW short a field are you talking about?? I fly > our RV-4(150 HP) from our 1100 ft. grass strip @460 > MSL in summer or winter. > I have just installed vortex generators from Larry > Vetterman for enough margin to take my wife along. > Bob Olds > Charleston,Arkansas > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > latest messages. > List members. > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 16, 2003
Subject: Re:RV-4 First Flight
Congratulations Ron ! Now you'll find out what the RV Grin is all about. Everything I have flown since our RV-4 has seemed like a DOG !! Keep Flyin' Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight RV-4
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Ron, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: First Flight RV-4 >Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2003 19:59:26 -0500 > > >I flew N996NC for the first time today. Wow! I had been doing transition >training in a friend's RV-4 and I was so happy mine flew as nice as his. I >did have a heavy left wing, but because of this list, I know what to do >about that. Real flight testing starts tomorrow. I hope I can sleep >tonight. Thanks guys. > >Ron Calhoun >RV-4 FLYING > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Rivet options, top fwd fuse skin
Date: Sep 16, 2003
I'll be rivetting the top forward fuse skin on my RV-8 one of these days. Many of the 3/32" rivets will have to be blind rivets due to access issues. What is the preferred blind rivet to use in this area? The smallest CherryMax I know of is 1/8". Are MK319's the next best thing? Something else? Thanks, - Larry Bowen, 80607 Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com>
Subject: Flip-up center armrest?
Date: Sep 16, 2003
I saw a plane at a fly-in Jackson, CA about five years ago that had a real nice flip-up armrest that they said they were always fighting over when they flew. Anybody know which plane that might be? It was an RV-6 or 6A with a real nice interior. Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com>
"RV-List Digest Server"
Subject: AVG / Grisoft antivirus
Date: Sep 16, 2003
NOT RV RELATED I'm posting this to the list since I'm aware that many listers use this antivirus software. I've been using their free offering for a while now - in fact since turned on to it by another lister. In the last week I've been making some changes with my ISP and some server problems have arisen. I am now unable to receive my scheduled updates and after a complete reinstall on one computer I cannot get a response from AVG to the request for a password to activate the new installation. I would be very grateful if anyone can help me figure out if there is a problem with AVG or my ISP's server. I really would like to be able to continue using this program but since there is no reply to the activation code request I'm wondering if they have discontinued the free antivirus service. Any help appreciated. Fly safe Rob Rob W M Shipley RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Rivet options, top fwd fuse skin
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Larry, Aviation Fasteners carries a Cherry Max CR3214-4-2 which is an opps type rivet (1/8" shaft-3/32" head). Supper strong......looks like a driven rivet when completed. Tom in Ohio RV6-A (Painting) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> Subject: RV-List: Rivet options, top fwd fuse skin > > I'll be rivetting the top forward fuse skin on my RV-8 one of these > days. Many of the 3/32" rivets will have to be blind rivets due to > access issues. What is the preferred blind rivet to use in this area? > The smallest CherryMax I know of is 1/8". Are MK319's the next best > thing? Something else? > > Thanks, > > - > Larry Bowen, 80607 > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorto1537(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: LRI
Al was working on an add-on module for the round-dial LRI to add aural stall warning. I saw a demo at OSH, and it seems to be promising. Anyone installing a LRI (or other "AOA" system needs to decide what they want the unit to do. If you want stall warning, you need one with some sort of audible signal. If you want it to help you go into and out of short fields, or to be there in case you need to do a forced landing in a small spot, you had better get used to using it on every flight. Otherwise you won't have developed the skills and habit patterns required to use the AOA system on the day you really need it. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mstewart(at)qa.butler.com
Subject: Flip-up center armrest?
Date: Sep 17, 2003
I Assume from your question you are looking for armrest pictures. I have some here. Center console, simple construction, flip up top. I have several friends who put one of these in after flying mine. (right smoozer?) Very comfortable and useful. http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/index.htm go to finishing, then interior. If you were looking for that particular plane, sorry I can not help you Enjoy, Mike Stewart RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Flip-up center armrest?
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Ken Barto used to make these. You can reach him at 315-622-2072. Best regards Craig still building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com> Subject: RV-List: Flip-up center armrest? > > I saw a plane at a fly-in Jackson, CA about five years ago that had a real nice flip-up armrest that they said they were always fighting over when they flew. Anybody know which plane that might be? It was an RV-6 or 6A with a real nice interior. > > Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Rivet options, top fwd fuse skin
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Larry, I used MK319s as you suggest. Holes need to be enlarged to #33 as you know, after they are set, they will need to be filled (I used a micro slurry). Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 QB (Building) Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> Subject: RV-List: Rivet options, top fwd fuse skin > > I'll be rivetting the top forward fuse skin on my RV-8 one of these > days. Many of the 3/32" rivets will have to be blind rivets due to > access issues. What is the preferred blind rivet to use in this area? > The smallest CherryMax I know of is 1/8". Are MK319's the next best > thing? Something else? > > Thanks, > > - > Larry Bowen, 80607 > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2003
From: "Wayne Reese" <waynereese(at)qwest.net>
Subject: Flip-up center armrest?
There is a RV=6a builder flyer at Bountiful Skyharbor Utah, who has a STC for arm rests in certified aircraft. It could be him, I'll look for a name etc. Wayne -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mitch Faatz Subject: RV-List: Flip-up center armrest? I saw a plane at a fly-in Jackson, CA about five years ago that had a real nice flip-up armrest that they said they were always fighting over when they flew. Anybody know which plane that might be? It was an RV-6 or 6A with a real nice interior. Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight RV-4
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Way to Go... Now we have another RV-4 Bro! ----- Original Message ----- From: Ron Calhoun <roncal(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: First Flight RV-4 > > > I flew N996NC for the first time today. Wow! I had been doing transition > training in a friend's RV-4 and I was so happy mine flew as nice as his. I > did have a heavy left wing, but because of this list, I know what to do > about that. Real flight testing starts tomorrow. I hope I can sleep > tonight. Thanks guys. > > Ron Calhoun > RV-4 FLYING > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tripp Myrick" <tmyrick(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: RV-10 engines
Date: Sep 17, 2003
I am trying to help an RV friend sell two new RV-10 Lycoming engines. IO-540-T4B5 260 HP with alternator, starter, magnetos and injector pump. Brand new in box with all paperwork, logbooks and Factory Warranty $33,900 outright Contact me off-list at : tmyrick(at)mchsi.com or call 706-660-8082 Thanks, Tripp Myrick RV-8 (sold) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com>
Subject: Re: Flip-up center armrest?
Date: Sep 17, 2003
The one I'm looking for wasn't a center console, it was just a flip-up arm rest. So when you didn't want to use it, there was nothing between the seats. It just flipped down against the electric flap console. Then again, perhaps a rugged center console that you could step on would make it easier to get in without stepping on the seat cushions... Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Auburn, CA >> I Assume from your question you are looking for armrest pictures. I have >> some here. Center console, simple construction, flip up top. I have several ... > -----Original Message----- > >From: Mitch Faatz [mailto:mitchf(at)skybound.com] > > I saw a plane at a fly-in Jackson, CA about five years ago that had a real > nice flip-up armrest that they said they were always fighting over when they > flew. Anybody know which plane that might be? It was an RV-6 or 6A with a > real nice interior. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Subject: Re: Flip-up center armrest?
Mitch, sorry I can't help but I'm interested, so if you do locate any info on the flip up (down?) armrest please pass it on. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Subject: static wicks
Listers--Those of you flying IFR, have you had any problems with P-static? Have you any experience or opinions on installing static wicks? Our avionics shop is recommending a bunch of them--they're pricy little devils (what isn't?). I checked the archives, no real experience, just speculation. Thanks in advance. --LeRoy Johnston/David White in Ohio (RV-6, fuel lines, wing attach work). ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: static wicks
Date: Sep 17, 2003
That is a good question.... most airplanes that go RV speed have static wicks... I have flown airplanes with static wicks all over them that still looked like a fireball in a snow storm, and I have flown them that have no trouble at all. go figure. If you are not in a hurry, when winter comes I will tell you what happens with my -4. The previous owner flew it IFR and he made no mention of it. St Elmo's fire at night is so cool, but not being able to talk to center or navigate is kind of a bummer. One 210 I used to fly was the worst of all, The prop would glow with a ring of fire. You could shoot sparks 6 inches off your fingers to the Windshield, and it would make your hair stand on end. Holding on to the compass with one hand was the only way you could talk on the radio. It had static wicks all over it but nothing helped. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ----- Original Message ----- From: <JhnstnIII(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: static wicks > > Listers--Those of you flying IFR, have you had any problems with P-static? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: LOE Fly-in
Date: Sep 17, 2003
Anyone have info on transportation to/from the airport and town? Are restaurants within walking distance from the motel (Hampton Inn)? Is there any reason one would need/want a rental car? Thanks in advance. Ivan Haecker rv-4 950 hrs. So.Cen.TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: LOE Fly-in
Date: Sep 18, 2003
> >Anyone have info on transportation to/from the airport and town? Are >restaurants within walking distance from the motel (Hampton Inn)? Is there >any reason one would need/want a rental car? Thanks in advance. >Ivan Haecker rv-4 950 hrs. So.Cen.TX We have to have a car...with a toddler seat! The airport is rather isolated from the city. If you want true flexibility for your itinerary, rent a car. (I booked a Hertz, Ford Taurus for about $30.) Or, just hitch a ride with someone who has an extra seat. There should be plenty...even mine! If you stay at the Hampton Inn, there should be a small squadron of RV'ers with rental cars coming and going throughout the event. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Painting metallics
Mark, When shooting metallic paint you have to keep the paint agitated. If you don't have a professional gun with an agitator in it then just give the gun a shake at the end of every couple of strokes. Most of the metallic paints that I've used don't like to stay mixed very well and you have to keep it stirred somehow. I had to repaint a car once because of this and believe me, it DOES make a difference. Dave EAA Technical Counselor czechsix(at)juno.com wrote: > > >Guys, > >What's the trick to painting single-stage metallics and getting the flakes to lay down in a uniform fashion? The only metallic I'm using on my plane is a single-stage silver (SherWill Genesis) that I'm applying to the leading edges of the wings, empennage, and flaps. The first thing I sprayed was the empennage leading edges. Per the recommendation of a local paint guy, I sprayed two coats--the first coat was across (perpendicular to) the leading edge, wait 10 mins for it to tack up, and the second coat was along the leading edge (i.e. a 90 degree cross coat to the first coat). This was on the empennage with the parts hanging in the booth LE down. Great results. > >Couple days ago I sprayed silver on the "LE" of my flaps (the part that will get covered by UHMW). I did everything the same as on the empennage except the parts were laying flat on sawhorses. This time the flakes look weird....kinda splotchy with an uneven pattern. Wondering if painting it on a vertical surface helps "align" the flakes better due to the tug of gravity than on a horizontal surface where they seem to just lay as the fell? Anybody with metallic painting experience that can offer some insight or suggestions? I still need to do my wing LE's and want them to look good... > >Thanks, > >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D painting...learning everything the hard way... > >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Painting metallics
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Throw a couple of marbles into the bottom of the can. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Bristol Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting metallics Mark, When shooting metallic paint you have to keep the paint agitated. If you don't have a professional gun with an agitator in it then just give the gun a shake at the end of every couple of strokes. Most of the metallic paints that I've used don't like to stay mixed very well and you have to keep it stirred somehow. I had to repaint a car once because of this and believe me, it DOES make a difference. Dave EAA Technical Counselor czechsix(at)juno.com wrote: > > >Guys, > >What's the trick to painting single-stage metallics and getting the flakes to lay down in a uniform fashion? The only metallic I'm using on my plane is a single-stage silver (SherWill Genesis) that I'm applying to the leading edges of the wings, empennage, and flaps. The first thing I sprayed was the empennage leading edges. Per the recommendation of a local paint guy, I sprayed two coats--the first coat was across (perpendicular to) the leading edge, wait 10 mins for it to tack up, and the second coat was along the leading edge (i.e. a 90 degree cross coat to the first coat). This was on the empennage with the parts hanging in the booth LE down. Great results. > >Couple days ago I sprayed silver on the "LE" of my flaps (the part that will get covered by UHMW). I did everything the same as on the empennage except the parts were laying flat on sawhorses. This time the flakes look weird....kinda splotchy with an uneven pattern. Wondering if painting it on a vertical surface helps "align" the flakes better due to the tug of gravity than on a horizontal surface where they seem to just lay as the fell? Anybody with metallic painting experience that can offer some insight or suggestions? I still need to do my wing LE's and want them to look good... > >Thanks, > >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D painting...learning everything the hard way... > >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Subject: Re: Flip-up center armrest?
In a message dated 9/17/2003 11:00:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mitchf(at)skybound.com writes: The one I'm looking for wasn't a center console, it was just a flip-up arm rest. So when you didn't want to use it, there was nothing between the seats. It just flipped down against the electric flap console. Then again, perhaps a rugged center console that you could step on would make it easier to get in without stepping on the seat cushions... That's what I have, and believe me, a center case is more useful in a plane than it is in a car. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 648hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jimnolan(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Installation Requirements
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Listers, I'd like to thank Steve Chambers, Mike Robertson and Charlie Becker for the information provided to me about the legalities of the changes that I'm making to my aircraft. The result is, I'm getting a Recurrent Certification on my aircraft. I have new OpLims and a five hour test period. The DAR at Warsaw has turned in all the paperwork. The reason I've went to this trouble is to have a warm, fuzzy feeling knowing that I don't have to wonder if I'm legal or if the insurance company will pay off in case of an accident. Isn't it nice to have the list to seek information when you need it. Jim Nolan N444JN ( The Sensenich prop (79) is five knots slower than the Warnke, but it cuts through rain) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Painting metallics
Date: Sep 18, 2003
There are many variables in shooting metallic.To get an even layer of metallic the biggest are, Same air pressure at the spray gun each time, Same distance between work and gun, Same drying time (temperature in shop), Same speed of travel with the gun,Same mix ratio in paint(thinner and hardener) and well mixed paint.The marbles are only for use in siphon feed guns (with the paint cup on the bottom) they will block a gravity feed gun. Speaking of guns, add to the above list to use the same gun with the same tip.(especially on HVLP). The main thing we are trying to do is to get the paint on evenly with the same drying time. This will let the small particles of metallic lay down in the same position in the paint and reflect light back the same amount giving the appearance of being the same color. Best regards Craig Warner still building ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Painting metallics > > Mark, > > When shooting metallic paint you have to keep the paint agitated. If you > don't have a professional gun with an agitator in it then just give the > gun a shake at the end of every couple of strokes. Most of the metallic > paints that I've used don't like to stay mixed very well and you have to > keep it stirred somehow. > I had to repaint a car once because of this and believe me, it DOES make > a difference. > > Dave EAA Technical Counselor > > czechsix(at)juno.com wrote: > > > > > > >Guys, > > > >What's the trick to painting single-stage metallics and getting the flakes to lay down in a uniform fashion? The only metallic I'm using on my plane is a single-stage silver (SherWill Genesis) that I'm applying to the leading edges of the wings, empennage, and flaps. The first thing I sprayed was the empennage leading edges. Per the recommendation of a local paint guy, I sprayed two coats--the first coat was across (perpendicular to) the leading edge, wait 10 mins for it to tack up, and the second coat was along the leading edge (i.e. a 90 degree cross coat to the first coat). This was on the empennage with the parts hanging in the booth LE down. Great results. > > > >Couple days ago I sprayed silver on the "LE" of my flaps (the part that will get covered by UHMW). I did everything the same as on the empennage except the parts were laying flat on sawhorses. This time the flakes look weird....kinda splotchy with an uneven pattern. Wondering if painting it on a vertical surface helps "align" the flakes better due to the tug of gravity than on a horizontal surface where they seem to just lay as the fell? Anybody with metallic painting experience that can offer some insight or suggestions? I still need to do my wing LE's and want them to look good... > > > >Thanks, > > > >--Mark Navratil > >Cedar Rapids, Iowa > >RV-8A N2D painting...learning everything the hard way... > > > >The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! > >Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Kewl A&P Site
vansairforce http://www.tech.purdue.edu/at/courses/aeml/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Filter airbox drawings needed
Can someone scan the pages to assemble the FAB for me. Mine have got lost. I have the 0-360 carb. style. reply direct to my address above... To save time scanning, I will accept from the first offer and advise all others. Thanks, Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dane Sheahen" <dane(at)mutualace.com>
Subject: LRI
Date: Sep 18, 2003
I have a LRI on my RV8 and have been using it for about a year. It is great in the pattern and gives you an audible warning before you run out of lift. I have the unit with the LED in the horizontal position and it mounted on the top of my glare shield . All of the LEDs light about 90 knots and as you slow down one LED at time shuts off starting from left to right. When you hear the tone you had better be near the ground. The other nice feature was the ease of calibrating. You just take the plane to wear you not climbing and not quite stalling and you hit the button and you are done. Any question call me at 847-727-0026 Dane Sheahen RV8a N838RV > Anyone have any info the LED version? www.liftreserve.net BTW, any comments (positive, negative, does it help your approaches, etc) on the LRI in your RV-8? I'm still wanting some type of AOA device, love to hear real world user experiences vs manufacturer hype. Rob Acker (RV-6 flying) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
I am installing the Dynon in my RV and I thought I would pass along a few comments as I go. The unit is very light. I had a chance to compare it to a turn and bank gyro and it seems that the Dynon unit is about 5 lbs lighter (both systems are about the same physical size). So with three gyros I am saving well over 10 pounds with just the instrument, not counting the vacumn system. You do need an RS 232 cable to wire the system. I live in a very rural area, went to Radio Shack asked for an RS 232 cable and they looked at me like I was from Mars! The frustrations of rural living. Installing the remote magnometer would be a lot easier during construction, although it is doable for a completed aircraft. For me the hardest part is deciding where to put it, a lot of places are possible, but what is the best, etc. FYI, Aeroelectric Bob has a Dynon installation kit, it has some of what you will need, it does not have the D-9 and D-25 connector shields, RS 232 cable or the pitot and static connectors (1/8" male fittings). Why Dynon does not include this stuff is beyond me, it would make it much simpler just to add it to the package and charge more money. This is what Rocky Mountain and Grand Rapids does. In the instructions and wiring you can wire an external temp probe, but no where on the Dynon's web site do they mention how to order the probe. The instructions state this is an optional item from Dynon. I guess I will have to call. When you get your system, download the latest instructions. Although my system was shipped after the date of the latest instruction version, I received the old instructions. I borrowed a smart level. Never having used one before, there was a learning curve in using the calibration, mode and units. I did it all wrong before I figured it out. For the Dynon unit I am using the same static/pitot system as I use for my RMI microencoder. Once I get the Dynon pitot tube, I will put that in as a seperate pitot and static system just for the Dynon unit. This gives me a redundant pitot/static system in the A/C. No sense ripping out the old system just to put in the new one. Well that is it for now. Will post more of the saga as it continues. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Dynon Report
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Hi Bob, Just an FYI, but the "RS-232" is not actually a "cable", but rather a data communication protocal, in Dynon's case used to communicate with a PC. You won't actually find a "pre-made" harness for this thing, since everyone is going to use it differently. I used the gray code outputs coupled to my UPSAT SL-70, most people who already have an encoder probably won't. Basically you end up making a harness with several leads, one for the txpdr, one for power, and one for the remote mount compass module, but bare bones the only thing required to turn it on is power/ground. Also, I will have the same "install kit" available soon with all the stuff mentioned below, INCLUDING the D-Sub shells for about %30 less. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis The NEW SteinAir Store - http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Report I am installing the Dynon in my RV and I thought I would pass along a few comments as I go. The unit is very light. I had a chance to compare it to a turn and bank gyro and it seems that the Dynon unit is about 5 lbs lighter (both systems are about the same physical size). So with three gyros I am saving well over 10 pounds with just the instrument, not counting the vacumn system. You do need an RS 232 cable to wire the system. I live in a very rural area, went to Radio Shack asked for an RS 232 cable and they looked at me like I was from Mars! The frustrations of rural living. Installing the remote magnometer would be a lot easier during construction, although it is doable for a completed aircraft. For me the hardest part is deciding where to put it, a lot of places are possible, but what is the best, etc. FYI, Aeroelectric Bob has a Dynon installation kit, it has some of what you will need, it does not have the D-9 and D-25 connector shields, RS 232 cable or the pitot and static connectors (1/8" male fittings). Why Dynon does not include this stuff is beyond me, it would make it much simpler just to add it to the package and charge more money. This is what Rocky Mountain and Grand Rapids does. In the instructions and wiring you can wire an external temp probe, but no where on the Dynon's web site do they mention how to order the probe. The instructions state this is an optional item from Dynon. I guess I will have to call. When you get your system, download the latest instructions. Although my system was shipped after the date of the latest instruction version, I received the old instructions. I borrowed a smart level. Never having used one before, there was a learning curve in using the calibration, mode and units. I did it all wrong before I figured it out. For the Dynon unit I am using the same static/pitot system as I use for my RMI microencoder. Once I get the Dynon pitot tube, I will put that in as a seperate pitot and static system just for the Dynon unit. This gives me a redundant pitot/static system in the A/C. No sense ripping out the old system just to put in the new one. Well that is it for now. Will post more of the saga as it continues. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Flip-up center armrest?
Date: Sep 18, 2003
I like your idea of a center console from the stand point of having something to grab or push on when getting out of the plane and into it. It would have to be strong. BUT I am concerned, because one of the guys that I will give a ride to on occasion is about 255 pounds. It will aid him with entry and exit. Once in however, he will be putting constant strain/pressure on the console from the side. What do you think of your console's strength from side force? Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: <mstewart(at)qa.butler.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Flip-up center armrest? > > I Assume from your question you are looking for armrest pictures. I have > some here. Center console, simple construction, flip up top. I have several > friends who put one of these in after flying mine. (right smoozer?) Very > comfortable and useful. > > http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/index.htm > go to finishing, then interior. > > If you were looking for that particular plane, sorry I can not help you > > Enjoy, > > Mike Stewart > RV-6A > -----Original Message----- > From: Mitch Faatz [mailto:mitchf(at)skybound.com] > > I saw a plane at a fly-in Jackson, CA about five years ago that had a real > nice flip-up armrest that they said they were always fighting over when they > flew. Anybody know which plane that might be? It was an RV-6 or 6A with a > real nice interior. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terence Gannon" <terence.gannon(at)telus.net>
Subject: -6 Fuse Jig Bill of Materials
Date: Sep 18, 2003
'Listers -- I'm about to head to the lumberyard to pick up the wood for the fuse jig, which I intend to build as per the plans. Did any of you -6 builders compile a bill of materials, and if so, would it be possible to get a copy?? Thanx, in advance. Terry in Calgary RV-6 S/N 24414 "Fuse!" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Subject: LOE Fly-in
Date: Sep 18, 2003
There are also some good restaurants - if you know where to go. Old Mesilla is just down the street from the Hampton and has a quaint flavor as well as the Meson de Mesilla restaurant. East of the University there's the Farm and Ranch Heritage Museum. Also a drive up highway 70 to the pass over looking White Sands Missile Range. Sorry just a little home sick! I miss Cruces - lived there 18 years!!!!! Bob Hassel RV9A in a holding pattern - RV10 maybe soon! 8-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Brian Denk Subject: Re: RV-List: LOE Fly-in > >Anyone have info on transportation to/from the airport and town? Are >restaurants within walking distance from the motel (Hampton Inn)? Is there >any reason one would need/want a rental car? Thanks in advance. >Ivan Haecker rv-4 950 hrs. So.Cen.TX We have to have a car...with a toddler seat! The airport is rather isolated from the city. If you want true flexibility for your itinerary, rent a car. (I booked a Hertz, Ford Taurus for about $30.) Or, just hitch a ride with someone who has an extra seat. There should be plenty...even mine! If you stay at the Hampton Inn, there should be a small squadron of RV'ers with rental cars coming and going throughout the event. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2003
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: -6 Fuse Jig Bill of Materials
Terence Gannon wrote: > > 'Listers -- > > I'm about to head to the lumberyard to pick up the wood for the fuse > jig, which I intend to build as per the plans. Did any of you -6 > builders compile a bill of materials, and if so, would it be possible to > get a copy?? Thanx, in advance. > > Terry in Calgary > RV-6 S/N 24414 > "Fuse!" Terry, You might ask around and see if there is a jig sitting that some one has finished with. There may be many of them around for free, especially in your area where there are lots of RV's. Just a thought, Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: -6 Fuse Jig Bill of Materials
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Sorry, I didn't keep mine, just jotted it down on a post-it and tossed it when done. Took about 15 minutes to figure out from the plans and, from memory, I think it was 9 2x4 studs, 3 1x4 8', 2 2x6 18' and a half sheet of plywood. I used drywall screws to assemble, so a box of 3" and a box of 5". I bought construction pine and regret it; some of it warped pretty badly while aging and has caused me to keep an eye on it while building my fuselage. Meanwhile, my cedar wing jig is still as straight as ever. If you can afford it, go with the cedar or something else that will be more stable. You don't want a warp in your jig showing up in your airplane. I agree with Phil - if you can find a jig, don't build your own. Now that the -6 series is winding down, you will essentially end up using it for firewood when you are done. It's less and less likely that you will find someone to take it off your hands. Anyway, good luck. I'm finding the fuselage to be the most fun component to work on - possibly because there's more room to work. Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - aft bottom skins drilled, working on sides Terence Gannon wrote: > > 'Listers -- > > I'm about to head to the lumberyard to pick up the wood for the fuse > jig, which I intend to build as per the plans. Did any of you -6 > builders compile a bill of materials, and if so, would it be possible to > get a copy?? Thanx, in advance. > > Terry in Calgary > RV-6 S/N 24414 > "Fuse!" Terry, You might ask around and see if there is a jig sitting that some one has finished with. There may be many of them around for free, especially in your area where there are lots of RV's. Just a thought, Phil ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Dynon report
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Folks, I finally got to fly the thing yesterday after moving the mag unit to the wing leading edge(its been a busy month). It seems to be glued to the earth's iron core. It still reads off from the steam one slightly, but then I wasn't very accurate with the calibration. As soon as I get a cooler day I'll go out to the rose and get it accurate. When doing slow turns it tracks the DG exactly, when doing 3g knife edge turns it roars right along with the turn and when I snap out of the turn, its right on heading, either direction. The DG will precess slighly when I do this. I then shot the ILS into CRQ and it was far easier to track it then the steam compass or the DG as my total scan was D-10 / ILS So for your specs, I measured how far away it originally was from the aileron corner, 10.75" where it was having interference from the steel in the aileron. Right now the closest steel (4130 push rod for the navaid servo) to it is 15" app. Its slightly less for the wing wires, but they are on the back side of the spar. The strobe lights on the tips are about 23" away, and don't seem to effect it either. So, needless to say, I'm am still very impressed by this unit every time I fly it. Also, RE the AOA pitot tube question from yesterday. This is not yet available to my knowledge, but they are working on it. W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
Bob wrote: > > > You do need an RS 232 cable to wire the system. I live in a very rural > area, went to Radio Shack asked for an RS 232 cable and they looked at me > like I was from Mars! The frustrations of rural living. > > Installing the remote magnometer would be a lot easier during construction, > although it is doable for a completed aircraft. For me the hardest part is > deciding where to put it, a lot of places are possible, but what is the > best, etc. > Here is another heads up for Dynon installations. For a previous magnetometer installation in my RV-6, I used CAT-5 network cable to wire the mag installed in the tail and the cable worked just fine. I used the same harness for the Dynon remote mag and was plagued by serious EMI which manifested itself as noise in the com radio. When I contacted Dynon for assistance in locating the source of the noise, I was told that shielded cable was highly recommended for the remote mag installation. Unfortunately, that is not mentioned in the Dynon documentation. I disconnected the remote mag power lead at the D10 connector, and the noise disappeared. It seems the Dynon is sending EMI down the remote mag power line so be sure you use shielded cable to the remote mag. This problem may not be present in all installations; it may depend on the proximity of the harness to antennae in a particular aircraft. I too am perplexed about the temp sensor; I have seen mention of it on the web site, but there is no mention of it in the wiring docs I have, and no mention of it in the User Manual. There must have been, or are plans to later incorporate, a TAS function in the D10. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 510 hrs) http://thervjournal.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: -6 Fuse Jig Bill of Materials
Date: Sep 18, 2003
Terry, Use kiln dried lumber! there are some horror stories including one from my Son-in -law who had to rebuild his horizontal stab. rear spar because he didn't realize the jig had warped! Another tip is to build the fuse jig in two sections. The front section, conforming to the plans, but terminating about 10" behind the F-606 bulkhead, essentially a rectangular frame of 2 x 6"s with 4 x 4" legs at each corner. The aft section is also a rectangular frame of 2 x 6"s but the width is reduced to that required for mounting the F-607 bulkhead. It's asinine to have the same width the whole length of the jig taking up all that space toward the rear. A 4 x 4" leg is installed at each aft corner.The front cross-member of the rear section is bolted to the aft cross-member of the front section, which then results in the complete jig with 6 legs. The beauty of having the jig in two sections is that once you have skinned the rear cone and the front side skins, the aft section of the jig can be removed and clear access is available to install those final rivets in the rear of the cone that are hard to get to when it is on the jig. I had 2 x 2" steel angles bolted to the bottom of the legs which could take hold down bolts to the floor and later take casters on the front section so I could move it around at will. That was very useful as I built a 6-A and was able to move the fuse around my garage to put the wings on to drill the U/C mounts. (I envy the 7-A builders that don't have to go through that !*#!~*! routine!) I put on a slab of 3/8" ply-wood on the front section of the jig and now is a very useful table (on casters) in my hangar! I can scan a few photos and send them to you, if you like. I don't think its worth putting them on the List Photo- Share seeing that there must be very few -6 builders out there a your stage. cheers!!---Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJB6A(at)cs.com
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Subject: Re: -6 Fuse Jig Bill of Materials
Terry, I used 3/4 birch ply laminated together, cut into 4" strips. Screwed and lag bolted, then the whole thing coated with polyurethane, jig was very accurate and did not warp. Did take some time to build, and needed some reasonable woodworking tools, table saw and jointer. Straightness of fuse and bulkhead placement is very important. Best suggestion is look for a used one in your area. Dave Burnham RV6A (N64FN reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
Date: Sep 19, 2003
> I too am perplexed about the temp sensor; I have seen mention of it on > the web site, but there is no mention of it in the wiring docs I have, > and no mention of it in the User Manual. There must have been, or are > plans to later incorporate, a TAS function in the D10. > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 510 hrs) > http://thervjournal.com Sam et al, The temp sensor wiring is there because Dynon is eventually planning on adding real time TAS, which of course they will need temperature input for. There are some builders, myself included, who won't buy one util they have it. Believe me, once you've flown with real time TAS you don't want to go back. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
Randy Lervold wrote: > > > > I too am perplexed about the temp sensor; I have seen mention of it on > > the web site, but there is no mention of it in the wiring docs I have, > > and no mention of it in the User Manual. There must have been, or are > > plans to later incorporate, a TAS function in the D10. > > > > Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 510 hrs) > > http://thervjournal.com > > Sam et al, > The temp sensor wiring is there because Dynon is eventually planning on > adding real time TAS, which of course they will need temperature input for. > There are some builders, myself included, who won't buy one util they have > it. Believe me, once you've flown with real time TAS you don't want to go > back. Randy, since I have the RMI uEncoder, I have had real time TAS for 500 hrs, and I refer to it often, especially for calculating winds aloft. I agree it is a nice feature, but I don't think I would let the lack of a TAS function be a deal breaker when it comes to buying a cool EFIS. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
>Installing the remote magnometer would be a lot easier during construction, >although it is doable for a completed aircraft. For me the hardest part is >deciding where to put it, a lot of places are possible, but what is the >best, etc. I have had a request on possible locations, so I thought I would post to all. 1. In front of the horizontal stab, under the vertical stab. 2. On the rear of the baggage bulkhead, top and sides 3. Outboard in a wing bay 4. Behind the pilot or copilots seat, mount to the horizontal crossbar 5. Under the baggage floor skins 6. Inside my wing fairing, I have P-40/Spitfire style fairings. 7. Inside the baggage compartment 8. On the floorboards, just behind the pilot/copilot seats 9. On any fuselage bulkhead behind the baggage compartment 10. Build a shelf somewhere behind the baggage compartment hang from top skin, or mount to bottom skin. 11. Inside a wing tip. Now you see what I mean by the hardest part, if you do investigate all of these options, you may never get it installed. Depending on how you configured your aircraft, some areas will definitely be better than others. If I were in the building stage, I would try and put it under the seat or baggage floor. Lots of good unused space under there. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dmedema(at)att.net
Subject: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 19, 2003
I recently weighed my plane both level and in the normal on-ground attitude. The results were very interesting to me so I thought I would share them. I originally weighed it in the normal on-ground attitude thinking I could convert it to level values using some trig. It turns out you need to know the exact height of the real center-of-gravity to do this calculation. I made an estimate based on the W&B drawings from Van's but didn't feel comfortable with it. I built some ramps to get it level and re-weighed it to get it right. Here are the results On-ground Level Nose tire: 236 272 Right tire: 396 377 Left tire: 394 378 The total weight was only 1 pound different which I consider a good sign of repeatability for the scales. The empty weight c.g. for the on-ground numbers is 70.45 inches while for level, it is 68.51. I'm putting my airplane's gross at 1800 which will allow me to have two 225lb. people, full fuel, and over 90 pounds of baggage and still stay in proper c.g. range and gross weight. C.G. is still ok after all the fuel is used in this scenario. I was quite surprised that lifting the main gear approximately 4 inches transferred 36 more pounds onto the front gear. For reference, the plane is unpainted with minimal interior. It has an 0-320-E2D with standard starter, Van's 35 amp alternator, an Odyssey battery just in front of the firewall, and a fixed pitch Sensenich prop. Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM ready for inspection! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
Date: Sep 19, 2003
> If I were in the building stage, I would try and put it under the seat or > baggage floor. Lots of good unused space under there. No way...I would strongly recommend against mounting it under the seat. If you or your passenger is wearing anything steel (belt buckle?) or have anything ferrous in your pockets that might cause interference (key ring on a keychain, for example; some pens?), you'll be hatin' it. Then there's the effect of the moving stick/control column, flap weldment, etc. Or if you mount it under the baggage floor, who's to say you'll never put anything ferrous back there? Maybe a zipper on a bag or suitcase? Tools? I'd recommend mounting the remote compass well away from any potential interference. http://www.rvproject.com/20030806.html )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Matco master cylinder rebuild
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Listers, I have a leaking master cylinder on my RV8. I ordered rebuild kits (two of them). For those with a few years of RV operation behind them, have you found it's best to just rebuild both master cylinders every few years or do they typically work for a long time, thus requiring rebuild only as needed? I'd rather just do both while I'm at it if it's the best plan of action. Thanks, Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Fwd: Dynon Avionics Announces Release of AOA/Pitot Probe
For those not on the Dynon mailing list, this just came this afternoon: Dynon Avionics Announces Release of AOA/Pitot Probe Dynon Avionics is pleased to announce the immediate availability of the AOA/pitot probe for use with the EFIS-D10 electronic flight information system. This original release is for the unheated version only. We hope to have the heated version available within the next several months. Introductory pricing is $199.00. Orders can be placed by calling Dynon Avionics at 425-402-0443. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Dynon Remote Mag Placement
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Excuse me if I missed some of the posts along the way but.... isn't the calibration program supposed to correct for any "permanent" interference? I can understand why you wouldn't want it near any fluctuating magnetic current but shouldn't it take into account the permanent magnetic force created by a screw or nearby steel tube? What about using mu-metal to shield the offending steel? Ross Mickey RV6A Painting ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dmedema(at)att.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: Dynon Avionics Announces Release of AOA/Pitot Probe
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Just a quick note regarding the announcement of the AOA/pitot probe: The phone number is incorrect in some of the emails that got sent out including the one posted on the list. The correct phone number is: 425-402-0433. Thanks, Doug Medema Dynon Avionics ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dmedema(at)att.net
Subject: Re: Dynon Remote Mag Placement
Date: Sep 20, 2003
>Ross Mickey wrote: >Excuse me if I missed some of the posts along the way but.... > >isn't the calibration program supposed to correct for any "permanent" >interference? I can understand why you wouldn't want it near any >fluctuating magnetic current but shouldn't it take into account the >permanent magnetic force created by a screw or nearby steel tube? > >What about using mu-metal to shield the offending steel? A magnetic calibration that will account for any "permanent" interference would require a much more extensive in-flight calibration than is practical. The in-plane EDC-D10 calibration is intended to only take care of minor interference. The best performance will be obtained by mounting the EDC-D10 as far away from ferrous metal and current carrying wires as possible. For reasons mentioned by Dan Checkoway, I would not mount it under the seats or floorboards (i.e. moving ferrous metal from controls.) Doug Medema Dynon Avionics P.S. We have just released a new version of the software as well. We are now at V1.5. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RiteAngle3(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Subject: RE: RiteAngle AOA owners
Hello aircraft builders. I know I have quite a few customers out there in your ranks. If you are building an aircraft or flying your aircraft with the RiteAngle AOA system I would appreciate personal photos of installation and comments, positive or negative sent to me off list. Please state model of aircraft, hours flown with RiteAngle AOA system and any suggestions. Those who have questions re AOA please also contact me off list. I don't want to use the list unless questions are asked that would apply to all. address for contact: riteangle3(at)aol.com There are several hundred RiteAngle systems out there and many owners have changed e-mail addresses. Thanks, Elbie Outstanding Customer Service is our Motto If you like it let others know If not let me know! EM aviation, LLC Elbie Mendenhall President 13411 NE Prairie Rd Brush Prairie, WA 98606 Phone & Fax 360-260-0772 www.RiteAngle.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2003
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Diamondhead Flyin?
Anyone in the Southeast going to the Diamondhead Mississippi flyin tomorrow? Charlie RV-4 N914RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: 9A manual trim cable in a 6A?
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Listers: I am trying to get everything squared away in the aft fuselage before I rivet my aft top fuselage skin on, and I have a question, mostly for the 9A builders out there, regarding routing the manual elevator trim cable. On the 6A, the plans call out for it to be routed under the seat and baggage floors, with the trim knob mounted on a center console that runs from the bottom of the panel to the fuel valve mount. This requires the cable to form a vertical loop from where it exits the wing spar up to where the trim knob is mounted on the center console. I would very much like to eliminate this loop, as well as the center console, and mount my manual elevator trim knob on a small sub-panel along with my throttle, mixture and carb heat controls. This would give me more leg room, and eliminate the possibility of kicking that vertical trim cable loop. Plus, I just don't like the looks of it as designed. My thought is to loop the trim cable in a horizontal plane infront of the instrument panel and run it to the aft end of the fuselage by way of under the canopy decks ( I am building a slider). This would require me to get a longer elevator trim cable, which I see is available by getting either part number CT-23V42-DF-2-181, which if I read it right is 3" longer than that in the 6A kit, or going with part number CT-23V42-DF-2-191 which is 13" longer....probably the one to go with. I was able to inspect a 9A that was in my airport's FBO and noticed that my desired arrangement was present in this particular 9A. Unfortunately, I was unable to talk with its owner/builder. Is that a design feature of all 9's? Any other 6 builders go with this type of arrangement?? Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A finish kit....slider in progress Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Diamondhead Flyin?
Date: Sep 19, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie & Tupper England" <cengland(at)netdoor.com> Subject: RV-List: Diamondhead Flyin? > > Anyone in the Southeast going to the Diamondhead Mississippi flyin tomorrow? > > Charlie > RV-4 N914RV > Not going, Charlie, but wondered if you were going to try and make the SERFI at Evergreen, AL in early October? Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Subject: Re: Matco master cylinder rebuild
In a message dated 9/19/2003 3:34:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes: I have a leaking master cylinder on my RV8. I ordered rebuild kits (two of them). For those with a few years of RV operation behind them, have you found it's best to just rebuild both master cylinders every few years or do they typically work for a long time, thus requiring rebuild only as needed? I'd rather just do both while I'm at it if it's the best plan of action. Brian- This depends on why it developed a leak. I'm assuming in my response that your master cylinder is leaking fluid out of the rod seal rather than leaking by the piston seal. If you have a rough rod (ouch!), the seals will just get torn up again in short order. If the rod is good and mirror smooth, it's possible that the seal was damaged during initial installation or was defective in some other way. Pay particular attention to the quality of the surfaces in contact with the seal. If I were doing this I would probably use it as an opportunity to replace the nitrile (buna-n) O-rings with Viton but the nitrile ones work fine in the master. Viton is really much better than nitrile for the caliper piston seal. See you at Copperstate. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 648hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: 9A manual trim cable in a 6A?
Date: Sep 19, 2003
Listers: I am trying to get everything squared away in the aft fuselage before I rivet my aft top fuselage skin on, and I have a question, mostly for the 9A builders out there, regarding routing the manual elevator trim cable. On the 6A, the plans call out for it to be routed under the seat and baggage floors, with the trim knob mounted on a center console that runs from the bottom of the panel to the fuel valve mount. This requires the cable to form a vertical loop from where it exits the wing spar up to where the trim knob is mounted on the center console. I would very much like to eliminate this loop, as well as the center console, ---------------------------big snip Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A ----------------------------------------- Hi Jeff I have electric trim on my 6A because I did not like the looks of the trim cable setup either. However if I was trying to put in manual trim on a 6A I would investigate trying a shorter cable running along left side under left arm-rest, then connecting to a lever that runs up through a slot at forward end of arm-rest. There must be off the shelf outboard motor throttle cables or something similar that could be made to work. This is only food for thought and worth what you paid for it. Have flown both manual & electric trim, both work fine. Only drawback with the vernerier cable setup is that on the aircraft I flew there was no trim indicator and it is hard to tell when trim is neutral during before takeoff check. With a left side lever there would be a visual reference for trim tab position. George McNutt Langley, BC 6A - 210 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2003
From: eregensburg <eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com>
Subject: Diamondhead VS Danville Flyin
Im going to Danville VA for the young Eagles fly in that Len Leggette helped organize. Anyone else willing to help would be appreciated. (DAN) Starting around 9AM (briefing) 10 AM we fly. Anyone, anytime welcome !! Ed "Ditch" N925RV - RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2003
From: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Horiz vs. Vert induction
Aero Sport Power now lists two types of IO-360 (the 180HP non-counterweighted version) engines on their pricing page. The IO-360-B series has a vertical draft sump (like the O-360) and the IO-360-M series has a horizontal setup (like the IO-360-A1B6). Other than the extra hole in the front of the cowl, what are the advantages and disadvantages of a horizontal vs. vertical induction setup? Why is the M-series (horizontal) almost $2000 more? Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 QB fuselage __________________________________ http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Subject: [ Ken Brooks ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Ken Brooks Subject: Remote Magnetometer Shelf and CPU Mount for Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS-One in RV-8 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kenbrooks@charter.com.09.20.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)attcanada.ca>
Subject: F-810C LENGTH RV-8 QUICKBUILD
Date: Sep 20, 2003
When mounting my horiz.stab to the fuselage I noticed that the F-810C angle was not quite long enough. It does not butt tight against the vert. flange of the F-887 longeron As a result it will be difficult to maintain edge clearance for the bolt that goes through both the f-810C and the F-887 . Has anyone had this problem on the RV-8 QB . GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman(at)attcanada.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Subject: Re: RE: RiteAngle AOA owners
My RV6 has 27 hours now and the AOA is still not programed. I wanted to wait until I could take a passenger with me to be able to program the unit. I'm intimidated by the instructions and want someone in the plane to help with the programing. I'll let you know when I get the system up and running. Larry Gagnon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick Jordan" <mkejrj(at)erols.com>
Subject: Re: Horiz vs. Vert induction
Date: Sep 20, 2003
Geoff, I ordered the horizontal induction Superior engine and have not received same at this writing. It should be ready for delivery in about 60 days since they are doing engineering work on the manifold before releasing it to the public.My answers are based on conversations with Superior and are not first hand knowledge but I believe them to be accurate. The new manifold is made from a composite material which is about 8 Lbs. lighter than it's standard aluminum counterpart. It routes the induction charge to the cylinders so that the gas air mixture does not pick up as much heat as the conventional unit( which routes through the crank case filled with hot oil). The cooler induction method results in a denser mixture and more power.. Superior advises about 1/2 " more manifold pressure. The above summarizes the main advantages. Other than that I understand the RV 8 is designed for the forward induction system and this should save time and money in not having to modify the cowl for vertical induction. If my memory serves me the horizontal system sells for a $1,000. more than the standard system. This may be distorted in that I purchased my engine at an OSH sales price. Good Luck, Dick Jordan RV 8A, Finishing ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Evans" <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Horiz vs. Vert induction > > Aero Sport Power now lists two types of IO-360 (the 180HP non-counterweighted > version) engines on their pricing page. > > The IO-360-B series has a vertical draft sump (like the O-360) and the > IO-360-M series has a horizontal setup (like the IO-360-A1B6). > > Other than the extra hole in the front of the cowl, what are the advantages > and disadvantages of a horizontal vs. vertical induction setup? > > Why is the M-series (horizontal) almost $2000 more? > > Thanks. > > -Geoff > RV-8 QB fuselage > > __________________________________ > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Matco master cylinder rebuild, etc.
Date: Sep 21, 2003
LIMITED_TIME_ONLY >In a message dated 9/19/2003 3:34:15 PM Pacific Daylight Time, >akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes: >I have a leaking master cylinder on my RV8. I ordered rebuild kits (two of >them). For those with a few years of RV operation behind them, have you >found it's best to just rebuild both master cylinders every few years or >do >they typically work for a long time, thus requiring rebuild only as needed? >I'd rather just do both while I'm at it if it's the best plan of action. >Brian- > >This depends on why it developed a leak. I'm assuming in my response that >your master cylinder is leaking fluid out of the rod seal rather than >leaking by >the piston seal. Yeah, it's around the rod seal. > >If you have a rough rod (ouch!), the seals will just get torn up again in >short order. If the rod is good and mirror smooth, it's possible that the >seal >was damaged during initial installation or was defective in some other way. >Pay particular attention to the quality of the surfaces in contact with the >seal. If I were doing this I would probably use it as an opportunity to >replace >the nitrile (buna-n) O-rings with Viton but the nitrile ones work fine in >the >master. Viton is really much better than nitrile for the caliper piston >seal. I'll thoroughly check the rod surface finish and O-rings for flaws. I have access to all kinds of O-rings at work, including viton. I'll cross reference the rings when the kits arrive and keep them handy for the future. I'm thinking the most likely reason for the leakage is dirt getting on the rod and wearing the O ring by sawing into it. It's pretty dusty here, especially during the spring and it just doesn't rain enough! I have to sweep mounds of dust out of my hangar a few times every year. Time to invent a master cylinder rod condom. :) > >See you at Copperstate. I hope! I started the annual today and found *gasp*...another bad engine cylinder. That makes three cracked jugs in four years. I could just scream. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Horiz vs. Vert induction
Date: Sep 21, 2003
I believe one benefit of the vert is that there is more room up front than below. Easier to plumb fuel lines and cables and further away from the exhaust. I dont think they can make it work for a carb though. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Jordan" <mkejrj(at)erols.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Horiz vs. Vert induction > > Geoff, > I ordered the horizontal induction Superior engine and have not received > same at this writing. It should be ready for delivery in about 60 days since > they are doing engineering work on the manifold before releasing it to the > public.My answers are based on conversations with Superior and are not first > hand knowledge but I believe them to be accurate. > > The new manifold is made from a composite material which is about 8 Lbs. > lighter than it's standard aluminum counterpart. It routes the induction > charge to the cylinders so that the gas air mixture does not pick up as much > heat as the conventional unit( which routes through the crank case filled > with hot oil). The cooler induction method results in a denser mixture and > more power.. Superior advises about 1/2 " more manifold pressure. > > The above summarizes the main advantages. Other than that I understand the > RV 8 is designed for the forward induction system and this should save time > and money in not having to modify the cowl for vertical induction. > > If my memory serves me the horizontal system sells for a $1,000. more than > the standard system. This may be distorted in that I purchased my engine at > an OSH sales price. > > Good Luck, > Dick Jordan > RV 8A, Finishing > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Evans" <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com> > To: "RV List" > Subject: RV-List: Horiz vs. Vert induction > > > > > > Aero Sport Power now lists two types of IO-360 (the 180HP > non-counterweighted > > version) engines on their pricing page. > > > > The IO-360-B series has a vertical draft sump (like the O-360) and the > > IO-360-M series has a horizontal setup (like the IO-360-A1B6). > > > > Other than the extra hole in the front of the cowl, what are the > advantages > > and disadvantages of a horizontal vs. vertical induction setup? > > > > Why is the M-series (horizontal) almost $2000 more? > > > > Thanks. > > > > -Geoff > > RV-8 QB fuselage > > > > __________________________________ > > http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: F-810C LENGTH RV-8 QUICKBUILD
Date: Sep 21, 2003
I think shortness is a pretty standard problem with this part regardless of whether it's a QB or not. I had the same concern on my 8A QB and here is Van's response: There is no shear load on the bolt that goes thru the F-810C so as long as the edge distance on the 887 is good, leave it as is. No matter how tight you get the 810 in the 887, there is no way to get standard edge distance on the 810 and the 887. It is more important to get edge distance on the 887 longeron. If I had built it myself, the fit would have been quite a bit closer and I would have beveled the horizontal edge of F-810C to snug up to the curve between the horizontal and vertical legs of F-887. The QB fit seemed perfunctory to me. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2003
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: F-810C LENGTH RV-8 QUICKBUILD
George, I noticed the same thing. I scrapped my original, "made to plans" angle. I used a cardboard template to make a second, longer piece which fits snugly in between the longerons. Charlie Kuss > > When mounting my horiz.stab to the > fuselage I noticed that the F-810C angle > was not quite long enough. > It does not butt tight against the > vert. flange of the F-887 longeron > As a result it will be difficult to > maintain edge clearance for the bolt > that goes through both the f-810C > and the F-887 . > Has anyone had this problem > on the RV-8 QB . > >GEORGE H. INMAN >ghinman(at)attcanada.ca > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RiteAngle3(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2003
Subject: Re: % RiteAngle AOA owners
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: RiteAngle AOA owners My RV6 has 27 hours now and the AOA is still not programed.=A0 I wanted to wait until I could take a passenger with me to be able to program the unit.=A0 I'm intimidated by the instructions and want someone in the plane to help with the programing.=A0 I'll let you know when I get the system up and running. Larry Gagnon Larry, According to my records you purchased the system on 06/04/01, over two years ago. I haven't heard from you in many many months. If I would have known you were intimidated by the instructions, it would have been easy to send you an updated CD of the setup instructions. There are over 400 RiteAngle systems out there, and the instructions have improved constantly, primarily by resolving questions like you may have. You purchased your system shortly after it was introduced and we are striving to make it easier to understand the setup instructions all the time. It is definitely true it is easier with another person in the aircraft, however, as said earlier, there is nothing required you didn't do prior to solo. Let me know your questions and I'll either e-mail or phone at a time convenient to you to get them answered! It is hard to resolve questions when you don't know them and we strive to have the best customer service in the industry. Outstanding Customer Service is our Motto If you like it let others know If not let me know! EM aviation, LLC Elbie Mendenhall riteangle3(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [Please Read] SPAM Filter Could Be Causing Posting Problems
For Some Members...? Dear Listers, Matronics is now utilizing a SPAM filter appliance to filter out the excessive amounts of inappropriate email that bombards the Email List Forums each day. The filter is reporting that over 66% of the email messages sent to Matronics email destinations are of SPAM content and reviewing the logfiles, it would appear to be true. That is indeed great! While the Lists are enjoying the breath of fresh air afforded by the new appliance, I am suspecting that a few legitimate email List posts are being blocked as too, although I can't confirm this. It is difficult to churn through the logfiles looking though thousands of blocked email messages trying to determine if any legitimate List posts were blocked. If you suspect that your posts are accidently being blocked by the SPAM filter appliance, I have created a new Trouble Report web page that will allow you to report your problems directly to me without having to use email. If the SPAM filter is blocking your email address for some reason, then its likely that I wouldn't be able to receive your direct email regarding difficulty in posting. The web form bypasses the incoming email and directs your message directly to me. Please include as much information as possible regarding the problems you are having including any bounced email or email error messages that you may have received back in regard to your posts to the lists. The more information I have about the email you are sending and what the errors you are receiving, the better chance I'll have in hunting down the problem. The Trouble Report Website URL is: http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report/ I apologize for any inconvenience the SPAM filter may be causing you. I will work toward resolving your issues as quickly as possible. Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics EMail List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: RV FLy-In - JEFFERSON CITY, MO - Oct. 11th.
Date: Sep 21, 2003
I was asked to post this for the group: The second annual RV get together @ Jefferson City, MO (JEF)( http://www.airnav.com/airport/KJEF ) will be held Saturday, October 11th. A Young Eagles even will kick-off at 09:00 with Lunch from 11:30. Looking forward to seeing you there. Regards, David Schaefer RV6-A Finishing Kit ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: "BillDube(at)killacycle.com" <BillDube(at)killacycle.com>
Subject: Ultimate C-frame
For those that want the "deluxe" version of a C frame riveter, check out: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2559535597&category=32718 Bill Dube http://www.killacycle.com/Lights.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: eregensburg <eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com>
Subject: Partnership - RV6A and C210 Greensboro NC
I am working to save a marriage here! I have a RV6A (2 passenger limited baggage 130 cruise)- full IFR (GPS,Dual VOR & GS, auto pilot, engine monitor, fuel flow meter etc). I recently purchased a Cessna 210 (4+passenger + baggage + fuel 170Knot cruise)which will be full IFR (new GNS 430, 3 axis auto pilot and more). My wife is a little upset at the new purchase. I need to find a partner for these planes. It would be ideal to find an RV builder looking for flying time while he finishes his plane. Partnership in the RV would run around $40K. (I would buy them out once theirs is built.) The 210 would run $50K. Or a person could partner in both airplanes for the best of both worlds! If anyone is interested contact me by email at: eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com Thanks Ed Regensburg N925RV - Greensboro NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Looking for an RV ride in Orlando...
vansairforce Hi all... I have a buddy that has been working is butt off on a paint scheme for me that is going to be AWESOME and I would love it if I could get him an RV ride... He lives in Orlando... If anyone is interested, please contact me off list... -Bill bill(at)vondane.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Nuse" <gnuse(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 24v to 5v plug-in adapter?
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Anyone know of a cig. lighter plug adapter to plug a PDA(ipaq with GPS) with 5v into the aircraft's 24v system? George ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played around with on scrap: http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not want to use it? Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Possible Freight Carrier for Quickbuild Components
From: Don.Alexander(at)AstenJohnson.com
Date: Sep 22, 2003
09/22/2003 03:41:42 PM Listers, I have developed a contact for a freight carrier to move our huge crates to the East Coast. The carrier's name is Nema Inc. and they are based in the Atlanta GA area. My company uses them for shipping extremely valuable freight that happens to have a similar dimension to what our quickbuilds have. They run a weekly route up the West Coast and would have it back in the Atlanta area a few days later. They have a warehouse in the Atlanta area with a fork truck, so they could cross-dock onto your trailer right there. What makes this carrier attractive for shipping aircraft is that they are not a LTL carrier. This is a truck that is heading back to home and will not be stopping at many terminals and beating the heck out of your crate while switching it to different trailers from hub to hub. Nema also has designed a crane into the roof of their trailers so that they can lift the crate right out of the trailer and set it on your flat-bed if needed. I have not witnessed this crane in action, so I can't vouch for its ability to do this on a fuselage-sized crate without having to tilt the crate during the process. I know that some of the cargo that we ship weighs over a ton and are packaged in crates over 30' long, but we are not concerned about keeping things level while handling. They run a truck out of the Atlanta area up the East Coast every week as well hitting one of our facilities in Warrendale PA and Appleton WI (Near Oshkosh) so you may wait on this truck if you are not in a hurry for your shipment. I can tell you that the price that they quoted me was about $300 less than what Van's said that ABF would charge for the move of my RV-8 QB fuselage, and I have much more faith in Nema. If you are interested in talking to them, call Mike George at 800-229-6362. Do not give them a call if you are in an extreme hurry to receive your freight because the rate that they will quote will assume that you are working with their regular route structure. In my case, I will have to meet them at a rest stop so they can drop the load on my flat-bed. If you choose to use them, please leave feedback on The RV List for others to see. If you are like me, a $300 freight savings helps out quite a bit. I will close by saying that I have no financial interest in Nema. I recommend them based on the success that I have had with them in the past in moving high-value freight. Don Alexander RV-8 wings almost done, QB fuse on the way in December ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
All it needs in my opinion is to spring load the hinge to the open position and a hartwell latch........ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV-List: invisible hinge on cowl oil door > > I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl > that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it > before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played > around with on scrap: > > http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html > > Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not > want to use it? > > Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Dan, I like your idea and your prototype oil door; however, I think the pressure inside the cowl is quite high and your oil door will tend to bulge outward. I was really surprised on the RV-4 how much it bulged around the fastners. I see your possible weak point at the hinge line where air pressure will push the door out in flight. Perhaps a little lip on this side to catch under the cowl when closed? Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 QB (Building) Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: RV-List: invisible hinge on cowl oil door > > I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl > that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it > before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played > around with on scrap: > > http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html > > Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not > want to use it? > > Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Starn" <jhstarn(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Your photo's look great. Flush latch, Hartwell H-5000-2, on A/S page# 179 is what we used. Take a look at the oil door on Cessna types. They have a "U" bend attached to the door and the other end to the hidden hinge. They open toward the center line of the airframe but it's easy to adapt so that the hinge side is on the front quarter. Had a proto type built for the HRII but Gummibear was in a hurry to get airborne so we installed the hinge with the eyes up and cut door to fit. Someday I'll get back to it either for N561FS or an RV-10. KABONG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: invisible hinge on cowl oil door > > All it needs in my opinion is to spring load the hinge to the open position > and a hartwell latch........ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > To: ; > Subject: RV-List: invisible hinge on cowl oil door > > > > > > I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl > > that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it > > before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played > > around with on scrap: > > > > http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html > > > > Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would > not > > want to use it? > > > > Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? > > > > Thanks in advance, > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D > > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: dynon magentometer
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Folks, re the list provided about magnetometer locations, I don't mean to trash it, but I found that this thing is very sensitive to any steel or current within 12". I had it located 10 inches away diagonally from the aileron leading edge and it was all over the place, due to the steel pipe in the aileron. 1. In front of the horizontal stab, under the vertical stab. Fair, but you have the steel hardware for the vert and horizontal stab, as well as elevator horns 2. On the rear of the baggage bulkhead, top and sides Poor, if steel or magnets are loaded into baggage area, and if slider version then you have steel canopy frame. 3. Outboard in a wing bay Seems like best place, as long as no major current wires nearby and in leading edge away from aileron. 4. Behind the pilot or copilots seat, mount to the horizontal crossbar Bad, flaps bar is steel, as well as flap motor, and baggage loading, see 2 5. Under the baggage floor skins bad, same as 2 and 4 6. Inside my wing fairing, I have P-40/Spitfire style fairings. bad, same as 2 and 4 7. Inside the baggage compartment bad, same as 2 and 4, (I assume that you don't mean the forward one in an 8, in which case if this location works then the internal unit should work.) 8. On the floorboards, just behind the pilot/copilot seats bad, same as 2 and 4 9. On any fuselage bulkhead behind the baggage compartment Fair, but a bitch to get to, and very hard to get exactly oriented and get it stiff enough to not vibrate. 10. Build a shelf somewhere behind the baggage compartment hang from top skin, or mount to bottom skin. Same as 9 11. Inside a wing tip. good as long as nothing else is in there As you can see this thing is not that easy to locate, particularly if you have a bunch of stuff in your wingtips and leading edges. Then once you find a spot getting it matched to the main unit and mounted securly isn't that easy either. My notes on how I did it should be in the archives W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Master Cyl
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Brian, I had the same problem on my right system, pilots pedal. There were some rough spots on the shaft, where something had marred the shaft. Not sure if this happened in route to me or during installation. I could not find anything that would have caused it as installed. But its symptoms were that it would suck in air between the copilot and pilot's pedals every time I went upside down. It finally started leaking fluid out, so I rebuilt it, and chucked the shaft up in a lathe and polished it. A drill press would work for this. If it happens again I'm going to replace the whole unit. The other three seem to be working just fine. W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Nothing wrong with the design, it's been done many times. I used p/n 11205A36 from http://www.mcmaster.com rather than roll my own. And I got the p/n from someone else. A friend used one very wide version of yours rather than 2 pieces. Keep in mind the cowling is not flat and the hinge lines of the 2 pieces should be co-linear to prevent binding. It's also got to clear the baffling and dipstick depending on its orientation. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil > door on the cowl that will make the hinge invisible. I'd > like to get some feedback on it before I commit to it. Here > are some photos of the design, which I played around with on scrap: > > http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html > > Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason > why I would not want to use it? > > Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
> >I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl >that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it >before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played >around with on scrap: > >http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html > >Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not >want to use it? I would be concerned about aerodynamic loads. I was chatting with a local RVer, and he showed me how his cowl bowed at the top rear where he decided not to install a single fastener. (It is installed now.) The arms are much weaker and more compliant than direct attachment to the hinge. Thus, the door might bow in or out as the arms flex. You could put a lip and a fastener (like a cam lock) on the hinge edge of the door to be sure it didn't bow in or out. However, if you did that, why have the hinge at all? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dmedema(at)att.net
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
I can't tell for sure on what side of the access door you have the hinge (i.e. top, bottom, front or back). I basically copied Laird Owen's design which has the hinges on the front. It works fine but I almost put the hinge point to far forward which would have been inside the baffles. As it is, it just clears the rear baffle on the engine. Doug Medema RV-6A N276 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: dynon magentometer
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Wheeler et al: I spent the better part of yesterday building a shelf patterned after Dan Checkoway's design he had for his magnetometer. Go to http://www.rvproject.com/20030806.html to have a look at his design. I made one modification to it that seems to eliminate Wheeler's concern that it would be a pain to get to if it is mounted on F607, in a 6A in my case. My shelf is hinged at its trailing edge so that adjustments in pitch orientation can be made precisely. My first concern about this design was that the hinge would vibrate, but it appears to be quite stable. I used the same size as for the flaps. I plan to rivet the vertical portion of the tray that is supported by F607 without the rest of the tray on....in other words I'll pull the hinge pin. That way I can rivet it in place, oriented parallel to the bottom flange of my instrument panel (my Dynon is not mounted yet). . The Magnetometer will attach to the horizontal part of the tray such that it is parallel to the aft edge/hinge of the tray. This in turn makes it parallel to F607, taking care of orientation in yaw, assuming that my panel is still perpendicular to the long axis of the airplane as it was constructed. The forward angle support can be clamped to the top rib extending from F606 ( sorry, don't have parts numbers infront of me) and oriented until it is level with the long axis of the Dynon. Once the aft top skin is riveted on, the only thing I will have to crawl back there to do is slip my hinge pin back in and get the tray level in the long axis, then drill through pilot holes in the forward support into the fuselage top rib. If I can't get in there, at least my 12 year old son can! I'll loan him out for a price. ; ) The only ferrous material nearby is the steel cable for the shoulder harness anchors, but seems they are more than 12" away, and should not be a factor. I opted for this location as I have landing lights/wigwags in both wings, as well as nav/strobes in both wings. It also just seems easier to get it oriented to the Dynon if it is in the fuselage. Just my opinion...FWIW.. If anyone wants pictures of what I came up with, let me know and I will shoot some out to you. Again, it is just a modification of Dan's design. Hope this helps anyone. Comments and accusations welcome........ Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A finish kit Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> Subject: RV-List: dynon magentometer > > Folks, re the list provided about magnetometer locations, I don't mean to > trash it, but I found that this thing is very sensitive to any steel or > current within 12". I had it located 10 inches away diagonally from the > aileron leading edge and it was all over the place, due to the steel pipe in > the aileron. > > > 1. In front of the horizontal stab, under the vertical stab. > > Fair, but you have the steel hardware for the vert and horizontal stab, as > well as elevator horns > > 2. On the rear of the baggage bulkhead, top and sides > > Poor, if steel or magnets are loaded into baggage area, and if slider > version then you have steel canopy frame. > > 3. Outboard in a wing bay > > Seems like best place, as long as no major current wires nearby and in > leading edge away from aileron. > > 4. Behind the pilot or copilots seat, mount to the horizontal crossbar > > Bad, flaps bar is steel, as well as flap motor, and baggage loading, see 2 > > 5. Under the baggage floor skins > > bad, same as 2 and 4 > > 6. Inside my wing fairing, I have P-40/Spitfire style fairings. > > bad, same as 2 and 4 > > 7. Inside the baggage compartment > > bad, same as 2 and 4, (I assume that you don't mean the forward one in an 8, > in which case if this location works then the internal unit should work.) > > 8. On the floorboards, just behind the pilot/copilot seats > > bad, same as 2 and 4 > > 9. On any fuselage bulkhead behind the baggage compartment > > Fair, but a bitch to get to, and very hard to get exactly oriented and get > it stiff enough to not vibrate. > > 10. Build a shelf somewhere behind the baggage compartment hang from top > skin, or mount to bottom skin. > > Same as 9 > > 11. Inside a wing tip. > > good as long as nothing else is in there > > As you can see this thing is not that easy to locate, particularly if you > have a bunch of stuff in your wingtips and leading edges. Then once you find > a spot getting it matched to the main unit and mounted securly isn't that > easy either. > > My notes on how I did it should be in the archives > > W > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
I remember reading awhile back about a cowl oil door that hinged in. When stopped, it could be pushed down (open) to allow the hot air from the engine to escape. With the engine running, the air pressure held it closed. It must be in the archives somewhere. The only obvious problem I can think of would be rain while parked. The hinge would be inside. Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Subject: Aerobatic Stress
I am out on the road ...does anyone have the stress limits for the 8A ??? -- Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 145 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RGray67968(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
(0.6 points), at.a.big.ISP(at)matronics.com Hi Dan, I have a 'flush' mounted door on my Six. So, speaking from 'experience': with your current plan your door will NOT stay closed in flight on the hinged end (we'll forget about the latching mechanism for now since you didn't show one). The 'low pressure' air behind the air baffles WILL blow your door part way open and the 'hinge arms' will bend and scratch all your pretty new paint. The solution is to turn your hinges 90deg so the strength of the arm comes into play. Just use your 'arms' as templates and draw a new 'arm' on a piece of 060 (you want the door to stay closed...right?). Then you'll have to make little 032. angles to attach the arms to the door. I've got a few pics I can mail ya' if it will help. Rick Gray RV6 in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - took me a while to get my flush door working but I'd make another one in a heartbeat - no visible hinge or latch I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played around with on scrap: http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not want to use it? Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Subject: Hartzell Prop
(2.8 points) 'From' juno.com does not match 'Received' headers Does anyone out there know what the combination of stud,washer,nut and locking arrangement is used when mounting a Hartzell to a O-320 B3B? Also I have one aluminum 12 in. spinner and a 12 in. fiberglass spinner that I would like to sell/trade for a 13 in. Joel "Weasel" Graber RV-4 Finishing The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WPAerial(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Subject: need tip up canopy repair ideas
I have 170 hours on my RV6A. after coming back from Reno air race I found the canopy had separated at the leading edge from the fiberglass on my tip up. Any ideas how I should repair this? Jerry Wilken N699WP Albany Oregon 541-926-8316 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Aerobatic Stress
Date: Sep 23, 2003
LIMITED_TIME_ONLY > > >I am out on the road ...does anyone have the stress limits for the 8A ??? > >-- >Len Leggette, RV-8A >Greensboro, NC N910LL >145 hrs > Len, Should be +6/-3 at no higher than max aerobatic gross weight....I think it's 1550 lbs, unless you have the slightly modified spar that Van's made well after my wing kit. Bumped it up 50 pounds maybe. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Rocket
Date: Sep 22, 2003
> Jim Ayers > Flight tests completed on two Hartzell props and an MT 3 blade Propeller. And the results? Randy Lervold ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2003
From: Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Subject: Pneumatic cleco tool--Some of us gotta have it!
So I put about 300 clecos in my HS, then drilled, pulling & moving clecos as I did so. Must have squeezed those things about 600 times. Next 3 days I couldn't use my thumbs; arthritis at the base of them flared up from repeatedly squeezing the cleco pliers. Turns out The Yard (yardtools.com) has a pneumatic cleco tool on sale for $25. Sold! This thing works great! Faster than the pliers & holds the cleco straight so it doesn't get cocked. Needs about 70 pounds of air; with less it doesn't fully compress the cleco. Dick Scott RV-9A, Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Hi Dan, I think you have the general shape of the hinge right, but I would make them just the opposite. Meaning, carve the hinges out of a solid piece of thick Aluminum, instead of bending a strap. The straps are somewhat prone to stretching, and I've seen a similar setup that had to be re-done because the straps just stretched. Think of the hinges on an old car glove box, or if you need a picture, the same style I used on my flush door glove box (http://www.steinair.com/N64YU.htm, and have seen on multiple oil doors. Built that way, they can't stretch out and let the door come loose. Just my 2 cents, not gospel. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: RV-List: invisible hinge on cowl oil door I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played around with on scrap: http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not want to use it? Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic cleco tool--Some of us gotta have it!
Date: Sep 22, 2003
Hi Dick, Early in the beginning stage of building my 6-A I encountered difficulties with the cleco pliers similar to what you describe, (very uncomfortable). I used some thick wall heat shrink on the handles of my cleco pliers and the problem went away. A side benefit was that the pliers are much less slippery in the hand (read less likely to be dropped). Also, with the improved grip in the hand, the clecos are easier to control therefore less fatiguing. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Scott" <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> Subject: RV-List: Pneumatic cleco tool--Some of us gotta have it! > > So I put about 300 clecos in my HS, then drilled, pulling & moving clecos > as I did so. Must have squeezed those things about 600 times. Next 3 days > I couldn't use my thumbs; arthritis at the base of them flared up from > repeatedly squeezing the cleco pliers. > > Turns out The Yard (yardtools.com) has a pneumatic cleco tool on sale for > $25. Sold! > > This thing works great! Faster than the pliers & holds the cleco straight > so it doesn't get cocked. > > Needs about 70 pounds of air; with less it doesn't fully compress the cleco. > > Dick Scott > RV-9A, Emp. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: need tip up canopy repair ideas
Date: Sep 23, 2003
> I have 170 hours on my RV6A. after coming back from Reno air race I found the > canopy had separated at the leading edge from the fiberglass on my tip up. > Any ideas how I should repair this? > Maybe you didn't make the plexi rough enough, in the beginning. What one could do is mix up some epoxy, use a straw that's flattened at one end that can be pushed in between, and blow it in with the straw. Just be sure to not suck the epoxy into your mouth as you fill the straw. :-) Of course, you may have to slip something in between the plexi and the glass to allow the epoxy to come out of the straw. It may even be a good idea to roughen things up in between, first. The big hangup is that you'll most likely mess up the paint. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Dan, here is another design for the hinge... http://www.lazy8.net/hinges.htm I guess the whole thing is better suited to the 8, but take a look. John Huft RV8 120 hrs, Pagosa Springs, CO > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: invisible hinge on cowl oil door > > > I'm playing around with a design for the hinge on the oil door on the cowl > that will make the hinge invisible. I'd like to get some feedback on it > before I commit to it. Here are some photos of the design, which I played > around with on scrap: > > http://www.rvproject.com/oildoordesign.html > > Do you see any potential snags with this design? Any reason why I would not > want to use it? > > Or...are there any simpler tricks for making the hinge invisible? > > Thanks in advance, > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: Pneumatic cleco tool--Some of us gotta have it!
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Dick, I checked their site and couldn't find them. What category are they listed under? Jack RV8 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Scott Subject: RV-List: Pneumatic cleco tool--Some of us gotta have it! So I put about 300 clecos in my HS, then drilled, pulling & moving clecos as I did so. Must have squeezed those things about 600 times. Next 3 days I couldn't use my thumbs; arthritis at the base of them flared up from repeatedly squeezing the cleco pliers. Turns out The Yard (yardtools.com) has a pneumatic cleco tool on sale for $25. Sold! This thing works great! Faster than the pliers & holds the cleco straight so it doesn't get cocked. Needs about 70 pounds of air; with less it doesn't fully compress the cleco. Dick Scott RV-9A, Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: oil door hinge
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Here's a couple pics of my oil door hinge. I found the hinge on one of the junk tables at Oshkosh. I plan to use a covered cooling plenum above the cylinders so I'm not too concerned about the door bulging.... although anything is possible as I haven't flown it yet! http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-08-25/oil%20door%201.jpg http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-08-25/oil%20door%204.jpg Vince F-1H Rocket <http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: invisible hinge on cowl oil door
Date: Sep 23, 2003
In addition to an invisible hinge, Dan, consider a manual release that will allow the door to open and cool the engine compartment after landing. Then you'll have done all my work for me! Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Pneumatic cleco tool--Some of us gotta have it!
The pneumatic cleco tool is a cool thing to have in the shop, but 300 clecoes in the HS? It is not necessary to put a cleco in every hole; a cleco in about every third or fourth hole is *usually* plenty to hold the parts in alignment. But with the pneumatic tool, how will you be recognized at fly-ins as an RV builder if both your forearms are the same size??!??? ;-) Sam Buchanan ======================== Richard Scott wrote: > > > So I put about 300 clecos in my HS, then drilled, pulling & moving clecos > as I did so. Must have squeezed those things about 600 times. Next 3 days > I couldn't use my thumbs; arthritis at the base of them flared up from > repeatedly squeezing the cleco pliers. > > Turns out The Yard (yardtools.com) has a pneumatic cleco tool on sale for > $25. Sold! > > This thing works great! Faster than the pliers & holds the cleco straight > so it doesn't get cocked. > > Needs about 70 pounds of air; with less it doesn't fully compress the cleco. > > Dick Scott > RV-9A, Emp. > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Subject: Correct URL for "The Yard" & cleco tool
The correct URL is yardstore.com; find the pneumatic cleco tool at http://www.yardstore.com/tools/cleco.htm#an12165 & look near the bottom of hte page or do a search for 12165. Dick Scott 9A emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Rocket
My Ultimate RV (Recreational Vehicle) would be a C-130, short dirt strip capable, a bathroom, room for a kitchen, plenty of sleeping space inside,you can carry your car/atv/snowmobile (you could even carry a Rocket but would have to remove the wings). It sure is a lot of fun to fly, can even fly through hurricanes and and other stuff. It flies on skis and I heard of someone putting one on floats. The range is pretty good and cruise is not bad. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2003
Subject: Re: Rocket
(0.6 points), at.a.big.ISP(at)matronics.com In a message dated 09/22/2003 8:33:49 PM Pacific Daylight Time, randy@rv-8.com writes: > Jim Ayers > Flight tests completed on two Hartzell props and an MT 3 blade Propeller. And the results? Randy Lervold We used the installed two blade Hartzell CS propeller to get the reference data with a know characteristic that maximum level flight speed was obtained at 2600 RPM. The MT 3 blade CS Propeller was 2 mph faster with the same characteristic that the maximum speed obtained in level flight was at 2600 RPM. Since this HR2 was going to be running at Reno, we also tried a new Hartzell 2 blade "J" blade propeller. The propeller matched the performance of the MT propeller from 2300 to 2600 RPM. However, the performance kept improving above 2600 RPM. This propeller was used at the Reno races. An F-1 Rocket using an MT Propeller at Reno was running one mph faster than the HR2. Jim Ayers Not exactly unbiased Southern California Homebuilt MT Propeller Distributor BTW, the 3 blade MT Propeller is 9 pounds lighter than the Hartzell "J" 2 blade prop. And even on the six cylinder engine, there was a significant reduction in vibration using the 3 blade MT Propeller. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Rocket
Date: Sep 23, 2003
> My 4 airplanes would be: > Taylorcraft L-2 w/85hp (an L-2 is a cub with Leg Room and they hooked up the > ailerons ;-).) > IFR Rocket! (who needs an RV if you have a Rocket) > P-51A Mustang (A Mustang without the hassles of a Merlin engine. Kits will > be available soon!) > G-V ( If you are gonna dream, dream big!) > A DC-3 would come in handy too for traveling parties too!!! What, only monoplanes? What are you going to fly when it's hot out? Surly a Fokker DR-1 or Stearman is needed for those hazy summer dawn patrols. Or perhaps a Pitts, Beech Staggerwing or AN-2 depending on your personal multi-wing tastes. Oh, unless the G-V was referring to a WW-1 Gotha GV. A bit heavy on the controls for a recreational airplane though. :-) Curt RV-6 C-GACR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: need tip up canopy repair ideas
Date: Sep 23, 2003
----- Original Message ----- From: <WPAerial(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: need tip up canopy repair ideas > > I have 170 hours on my RV6A. after coming back from Reno air race I found the > canopy had separated at the leading edge from the fiberglass on my tip up. > Any ideas how I should repair this? > > > Jerry Wilken > N699WP > Albany Oregon > 541-926-8316 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: Dynon Magnetometer (All Charged Up)
Date: Sep 23, 2003
"All Charged Up" a strange but true story. I don't have a Dynon but have watched the posts about the super sensitivity of the Dynon magnetometer and suddenly a light switched on, I remembered the trouble I had with Underdogs compass. Way back when, my Sirs Navigator compass was state of the art for navigation, except it was about 60 degrees off when I tried to mount it in Underdog, a 6A slider. All kinds of magnetism in everything, roll bar, controls, everything! Called in the specialists who degauss engine parts after magnaflux inspection and they tried to demagnetize the roll bar, then they decided that the crankshaft must be magnetized! Magnetism everywhere, just what I really wanted to hear! Driven almost to tears I purchased a marine compass with remote sensor. Then I borrowed a gizmo from our local Hydro company that tests for EMF fields. I found that there was all kinds of magnetism in my shop pouring out from all those wonderful fluorescent lights I had installed. Anyway seems like Underdog got all charged up sitting for years in all that EMF from the fluorescent lights. Once Underdog got to the airport for final assembly all the magnetism bleed off allowing the Sir's compass to be swung to within two degrees. Now who can hold a heading that close! George McNutt Langley, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
Subject: H10-40 Headsets for sale
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Listers, I have two H10-40 headsets that I am no longer using, and would like to sell. Both are a few years old, but in excellent condition. One has a head pad and gel ear muffs. Both have foam mike filters. I'm asking $150.00 each, or $275.00 for both. Anybody interested should contact me off the list at the email address below. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: virii
Date: Sep 24, 2003
As an experiment, I dropped my old subscription to this list, and re-subscribed under a new email address. During the past two months, I did not post a single message, and I received no spam or virii. Then, yesterday I posted a message, and last night I received 6 virus messages and 2 pleas for help from Nigerian nationals. My own conclusion is that people are "mining" this list for valid addresses. How Matt can stop this is beyond me. I guess it is just the cost of sharing knowledge and opinions with our fellow builders. John Huft RV8 Pagosa Springs, CO www.lazy8.net/rv8.html see you at Copper State and LOE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2003
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Give my buddy a ride?
vansairforce Hi all... I am still searching for a ride for a friend of mine if FL... I received a message from Bernie Kerr regarding a flyin at Love's Landing this weekend and was wondering if anyone who plans to attend this flyin could give my friend a ride... Please let me know so I can tell him to show up... Thanks! -Bill VonDane RV-8A www.vondane.com www.creativair.com www.epanelbuilder.com ----- Original Message ----- From: WALTER KERR Subject: Orlando ride Hi Bill, There is an RV flyin by the FLA VAF this Saturday at Love's Landing just north of Orlando , South of Ocala. I'm sure if your friend showed up, someone would give him a ride. I'm bumming a ride up since I can't legally fly at the moment after my MI. Bernie Kerr, selling 6A, building 9A with rotary ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2003
From: Rob Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-8 1st anniversary observations
Hi Listers It's been 1 year and 150 fun-filled hours since the first flight of my O-360 180 hp RV-8 "Bad Cat" last year. Here are some noteworthy items: 1. Carb Heat flange failed at 35 hours. The Van's supplied, tack-welded flange just didn't hold up. A spun aluminum flange from Spruce has done the trick. 2. Main gear replaced at 40 hours with Grove aerodynamic aluminum gear. What a nice mod! Saves on parts count, no lower cuffs to make, internal brake line, and 11 lbs less weight--the wallet is lighter too! 3. Air box mounting plate cracked at 95 hours. Replaced 1/16th plate with 1/8th stock. 4. Electric Bob fused based electrical system driving an all electrical panel and a full Apollo stack has worked beautifully--no failures. 5. Control stick is a little short. Make yours long enough so that it just does clear the bottom edge of the panel. 6. New O-360/Harzell has plenty of power. Lowest initial climb rate recorded: Malad City 4000 +- MSL, 85 degrees gross weight (and then some) = 700 fpm. 7. CG is extreme forward w/full fuel (O-360, Hartzell, and Panasonic Battery up front) and solo but flies ok.--I really like this setup with a heavy backseater and lots of bags. 8. & &%$#&*& gear towers cut in on leg room and prevent me from putting my feet flat on the floor. This gets tiring on a long cross country. 9. Aircraft painted at 75 hours in Yerrington NV by Matthews Aviation--Nice guys who did a great job. 4 color imron = $4300. 10. Buy a big hat! And also some slap up window tint. The sun will cook your head! 11. Rivets on rear canopy skirt are working and some small cracks have developed in the canopy. They have been stop drilled. 12. Performance= 75% 206 mph @ 8,000 ft; 65% 201 mph @ 11.5K, Time to climb to 11K = 7 minutes 35 sec @ 1600 lbs. 13. Fun fun fun -- keep on a rivetin' Rob Miller N262RM 80153 "Bad Cat" 150 hours Visit us at www.badcataviation.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2003
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Re: virii
I think the problem is that many people on the List have a virus or 10. When the infected machine gets a message from you though the List, the viruses just shoot their wad your way. I don't think its really mining per say, just how certain viruses work. Matt Dralle At 06:59 AM 9/24/2003 Wednesday, you wrote: > >As an experiment, I dropped my old subscription to this list, and >re-subscribed under a new email address. During the past two months, I did >not post a single message, and I received no spam or virii. Then, >yesterday I posted a message, and last night I received 6 virus messages >and 2 pleas for help from Nigerian nationals. > >My own conclusion is that people are "mining" this list for valid >addresses. How Matt can stop this is beyond me. I guess it is just the >cost of sharing knowledge and opinions with our fellow builders. > >John Huft >RV8 Pagosa Springs, CO >www.lazy8.net/rv8.html >see you at Copper State and LOE > Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Dynon Report
I finally installed the Dynon head in the A/C and before I installed the magnometer, I had to check what software version I had on the Dynon. Since I did not have the user's manual with me I thought this would be a real bear. But, it was easy to do a temp wire up and turn it all on. Much to my surprise it worked. So I started playing with all the buttons, and sure enough I was able to get the software version, without reading pages and pages of the user's manual. Now I have read the user's manual and it is pretty good. But what I really like, is how intuitive the switchology was for the system. Unlike my Grand Rapids EIS and Rocky Mountain MicroEncoder, the Dynon can be operated without having to use the User's manual at all. I am not knocking my RMI or GRT systems, they are truly great, but the Dynon is just so much eaiser to use and understand the output. In a previous life I used to conduct testing of complex systems in a combat environment. Human Factors and switchology was important to a soldier (or helicopter pilot) on the battlefield with no time to review the manual prior to operation. I find the Dynon far exceeds anything I have ever used in this area. With little or no experience, most aviators could figure out how to use this system. However, that is not true with the EIS or MicroEncoder, at least I would not lend my aircraft to someone without a good checkout on those two instruments. I must give Dynon an A+ for ease of use and the human factors side of the system. I have not flown with the system yet, so I can not comment on how it works in the air. I can comment on the magnometer placement, as it is a real pain!!! As other posts have indicated, there are few if any good places to mount it. On my aircraft I have choices between bad and really bad! Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: magnetometer placement/mount update
Date: Sep 24, 2003
List: Spent a part of today getting my magnetometer mount installed in my 6A. I was concerned about the proximity of the shoulder harness cable to the magnetometer, so I gave Dynon a call. I must say that I was impressed with how quickly I was referred to Paul for technical help. Paul indicated that my setup being as close as 10 inches from the shoulder harness cable was perfectly acceptable. That is really the only ferrous material close to where I have my tray mounted on F607. Mine is a slider, so I plan to change the last two screws holding the rear slider rail on to brass. Two things have surfaced regarding the design of my tray. First, I would recommend riveting a piece of angle to the forward area of the horizontal component of the tray to stiffen as well as level it. Otherwise it tends to distort and upset the lateral alignment of the magnetometer. Second, I plan to apply thick cyanoacrylate glue along the hinge line after I get the tray aligned in pitch. This will prevent any side to side movement of the hinge line due to inherent "slop" in the hinge itself. This glue is not to prevent the hinge from "hinging", but rather to form "Washers" made of glue between the hinge tabs, keeping the hinge from moving laterally. Once the tray is installed and after I have my aft top fuselage skin riveted, I may install more forward support from the front flange of the tray up to the J channels on either side of the center fuselage rib (again, sorry I don't have that part number infront of me). As it stands, I can get a slight twist in the tray, but this may be due to the skin not being riveted and the center rib twisting with the tray. This should be more ridged with the skin riveted on. This added support would also prevent the hinge from moving laterally. Just thought I would pass this on, especially that Dynon feels 10 inches away from ferrous material is OK. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A finish kit Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Fuel Managment System
I am shopping for a fuel management system for my -6. I am considering the E.I. FP-5L, Shadin Miniflo-L and the Matronics FuelChec DX. If any of you are using these units would you share your experiences to help me make a decision. Cash Copeland RV6 Hayward, Ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillRVSIX(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Gyros 8 deg tilt question.
Hello Quick question on a panel that has a 8 deg tilt I know the artificial horizon has to have the tilt built in but dose the DG and turn coordinator need to be set up for the 8 deg tilt panel. Bill Higgins RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "D. Wayne Stiles" <dwstiles(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Imron paint calculations
Date: Sep 24, 2003
I'm asking this for another builder. Does anyone know what the square footage paintable area is on an RV-6a slider, and/ or the approximate weight of a single coat of Imron paint on the same plane ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: magnetometer placement/mount update
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Hi Jeff This might work instead of messing with CA glue that might jam up the hinge pin. To stop the hinge segments from shifting laterally drill a hole in each of two hinge segments very close to the hinge pin loop bases. If the holes are drilled diagonally opposite one another on two opposing loops a tie wrap cable tie can be threaded through and pulled tight holding the hinge segments tight against each other. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> Subject: RV-List: magnetometer placement/mount update > > List: > > Spent a part of today getting my magnetometer mount installed in my 6A. >SNIP< > Second, I plan to apply thick cyanoacrylate glue along the hinge line after I get the tray aligned in pitch. This will prevent any side to side movement of the hinge line due to inherent "slop" in the hinge itself. This glue is not to prevent the hinge from "hinging", but rather to form "Washers" made of glue between the hinge tabs, keeping the hinge from moving laterally. > > Just thought I would pass this on, especially that Dynon feels 10 inches away from ferrous material is OK. > > Regards, > > Jeff Orear ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Managment System
I have a Matronic DX and love it. Plus you have the best support in the world right here on the list through our great list administrator Matt Dralle :) the designer of the FuelChec. Jerry JusCash(at)aol.com wrote: > >I am shopping for a fuel management system for my -6. I am considering the >E.I. FP-5L, Shadin Miniflo-L and the Matronics FuelChec DX. If any of you are >using these units would you share your experiences to help me make a decision. > >Cash Copeland >RV6 Hayward, Ca > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: magnetometer placement/mount update
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Thanks Jim. Sounds like a better plan. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A finish kit Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: magnetometer placement/mount update > > Hi Jeff > > This might work instead of messing with CA glue that might jam up the hinge > pin. > To stop the hinge segments from shifting laterally drill a hole in each of > two hinge segments very close to the hinge pin loop bases. > If the holes are drilled diagonally opposite one another on two opposing > loops a tie wrap cable tie can be threaded through and pulled tight holding > the hinge segments tight against each other. > > Jim in Kelowna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: magnetometer placement/mount update > > > > > > List: > > > > Spent a part of today getting my magnetometer mount installed in my 6A. > >SNIP< > > Second, I plan to apply thick cyanoacrylate glue along the hinge line > after I get the tray aligned in pitch. This will prevent any side to side > movement of the hinge line due to inherent "slop" in the hinge itself. This > glue is not to prevent the hinge from "hinging", but rather to form > "Washers" made of glue between the hinge tabs, keeping the hinge from moving > laterally. > > > > Just thought I would pass this on, especially that Dynon feels 10 inches > away from ferrous material is OK. > > > > Regards, > > > > Jeff Orear > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Re: Gyros 8 deg tilt question.
Date: Sep 24, 2003
No, of the normal flight instruments, I believe the AH is the only one. If you get a gyro without the tilt (at least in my case) after the unit is caged, the horizon drifts up and within about 10 minutes is also badly lopsided. At Oshkosh, the guys at Kelly Manufacturing (R C Allen) told me that that is a sympton of a non-tilted gyro installed in a tilted panel. I understand the amount of tilt is not critical, ie. you don't have to order a gyro with 7.5 degrees of tilt in it. Also, the panel tilt is measured in straight and level flight not on the ground. Albert Gardner RV-9A 872RV Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2003
Subject: Re: Gyros 8 deg tilt question.
In a message dated 9/24/2003 4:01:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, BillRVSIX(at)aol.com writes: Hello Quick question on a panel that has a 8 deg tilt I know the artificial horizon has to have the tilt built in but dose the DG and turn coordinator need to be set up for the 8 deg tilt panel. No. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 648hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: virii
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Knock on wood, but I dont get any spam. Jeff Im using earthlink if that matters. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> Subject: RV-List: virii > > As an experiment, I dropped my old subscription to this list, and re-subscribed under a new email address. During the past two months, I did not post a single message, and I received no spam or virii. Then, yesterday I posted a message, and last night I received 6 virus messages and 2 pleas for help from Nigerian nationals. > > My own conclusion is that people are "mining" this list for valid addresses. How Matt can stop this is beyond me. I guess it is just the cost of sharing knowledge and opinions with our fellow builders. > > John Huft > RV8 Pagosa Springs, CO > www.lazy8.net/rv8.html > see you at Copper State and LOE > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: question on windscreen fairing for slider
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Is it recommended to do anything to the inside of the windscreen to block the view of the backside of the bond area at the base of the windscreen? I'm wondering if I should paint that area on the inside of the windscreen. (I couldn't find an answer in the archives.) Chris Heitman Dousman WI RV-9A N94ME (reserved) ready to install windscreen http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: question on windscreen fairing for slider
Chris, There are tints available from automotive paint and boat supplies that can be added to epoxy to color it. I've used a black tint I got from a boat supply store for the first layers of fiberglass on my windscreen front fairing and over the top to avoid the regular fiberglass color. Hope this helps. Regards, Richard Dudley -6A finishing details (there are lots!) C J Heitman wrote: > > > Is it recommended to do anything to the inside of the windscreen to block > the view of the backside of the bond area at the base of the windscreen? I'm > wondering if I should paint that area on the inside of the windscreen. (I > couldn't find an answer in the archives.) > > Chris Heitman > Dousman WI > RV-9A N94ME (reserved) > ready to install windscreen > http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html > > --- > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
"Rv9-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv8-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com"
Subject: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly IFR. I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, then please let me know. Sincerely, Noel Simmons ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Resolver vs Converter education
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Fellow listers, My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the whatever brand CDI. I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as inputs. The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only. I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different type of signals.... Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of signals be used without the other? Thanks, Ralph Capen Soooooo many little wires ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: washers, forward elevator pushrod end
Date: Sep 25, 2003
I'm having one heck of a hard time getting the front rod end of the fwd elevator pushrod attached to the control column. On the RV-7, the plans call for one AN960-10 washer on each side of the bearing, sandwiched between the bearing and the control column. The issue is that I can't really access that area easily now that everything's assembled. I can get one washer in no problem, then put the rod end in -- it's the 2nd washer that's a real bear to install. I've tried the tape-tab, superglue the washer to a screwdriver tip, hold each washer with one bolt from each side, etc. tricks and it's just so confined in there I can't seem to nail it. It's tough because the body of the rod end blocks access from behind, and I can't really get in front of it with my hands or a tool. Any advice on this? I'll keep on keepin' on, but if there are other tricks I'd love to hear about 'em! Thanks, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "pauls(at)kc.rr.com" <pauls(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
"even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly IFR. " WHAT ?? I am not to sure where you get this type of information, but if I were you, not only would I not listen to this type of mumbo jumbo, I sure wouldn't be repeating it! Paul do not archieve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com>
Subject: Re: washers, forward elevator pushrod end
Dan, I've found that using a 2-3" length of hinge pin instead of the bolt is much easier to get all the necessary washers in place. Then push the pin out with the bolt, wiggling the pin about as necessary to get it through everything. Chris Good, http://rv.supermatrix.com West Bend, WI RV-6A 600 hrs. -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:13:59 From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > >I'm having one heck of a hard time getting the front rod end of the fwd >elevator pushrod attached to the control column. On the RV-7, the plans >call for one AN960-10 washer on each side of the bearing, sandwiched between >the bearing and the control column. The issue is that I can't really access >that area easily now that everything's assembled. I can get one washer in >no problem, then put the rod end in -- it's the 2nd washer that's a real >bear to install. > >I've tried the tape-tab, superglue the washer to a screwdriver tip, hold >each washer with one bolt from each side, etc. tricks and it's just so >confined in there I can't seem to nail it. It's tough because the body of >the rod end blocks access from behind, and I can't really get in front of it >with my hands or a tool. > >Any advice on this? I'll keep on keepin' on, but if there are other tricks >I'd love to hear about 'em! > >Thanks, >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: question on windscreen fairing for slider
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Chris, On our 8A we painted the inside of the fairing - flat black to off set light reflections. Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A (200+ hours) >From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: question on windscreen fairing for slider >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 09:37:37 -0500 > > >Is it recommended to do anything to the inside of the windscreen to block >the view of the backside of the bond area at the base of the windscreen? >I'm >wondering if I should paint that area on the inside of the windscreen. (I >couldn't find an answer in the archives.) > >Chris Heitman >Dousman WI >RV-9A N94ME (reserved) >ready to install windscreen >http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html > > >--- > > FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillRVSIX(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Subject: Gyros and 8 deg panel question.
Hello Quick question on a panel that has a 8 deg tilt I know the artificial horizon has to have the tilt built in but dose the DG and turn coordinator need to be set up for the 8 deg tilt panel. Bill Higgins RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: need tip up canopy repair ideas
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Hi Jerry:: In the original manual for my 6 (1990) it was optional regarding the installation of the pop rivets (CS4-4) through the canopy base molding. For the 6A it calls up the installation of these rivets at 4 inch spacing, was wondering if you have those rivets installed. Although it may have happened I have not heard of one separating with the rivets installed. If you care to contact me I have some ideas on a repair. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ----- Original Message ----- From: <WPAerial(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: need tip up canopy repair ideas > > I have 170 hours on my RV6A. after coming back from Reno air race I found the > canopy had separated at the leading edge from the fiberglass on my tip up. > Any ideas how I should repair this? > > > Jerry Wilken > N699WP > Albany Oregon > 541-926-8316 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Pedersen" <wayne(at)pedersentransport.com>
Subject: remote engine heater
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Winter is coming and I am looking at a remote control box that turns on your engine heater - see link http://www.goflying.cc/index.html Anybody have any experience with this RS Beeper Box ? or other suggestions and suppliers. Thanks Wayne RV7a - fuse Southern Alberta --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly IFR. I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, then please let me know. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Lot's has been written and is in the archives about this subject. Ask your FAA or DAR person to show you the reg that requires TSO instruments for part pi oiperations. Then you can post it here for the rest of us. This issue is also discussed on the Bluse Mountain site. They are not even required to sign off the installation. Typically your operating limitations read something like ".. approved for VFR only unless equipped for IFR.." It's up to you to make the determination. Stan Blanton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: remote engine heater
Date: Sep 25, 2003
> > Winter is coming and I am looking at a remote control box > that turns on your engine heater - see link > http://www.goflying.cc/index.html > > Anybody have any > experience with this RS Beeper Box ? or other suggestions and > suppliers. > > Thanks > > Wayne RV7a - fuse > Southern Alberta Wayne, I hooked a line break thermostat on to the end of an extension cord. I drop the whole thermostat end of the cord into the oil door, and plug the engine heater (mine has a sump heater and cylinder heater bands) into this cord. I set it at about 50F, and insulate the cowl well. I also wedge a piece of foam rubber into the cooling air exit area. I leave this on all the time during the winter, and I suspect the duty cycle is not too high. I am quite happy with this arrangement, as the year before I had it hooked to a telephone apparatus, and I always had to plan to call the hangar the night before I planned to fly. I'd be surprised if it used $10/month electricity. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 373 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: [rv8list] Buyer beware (a bit long)
As am update, I finally got hold of the new owner (?) of moneeymart, no I never got a call back, who informed me they would honor (grudgingly) the published price. Gert wrote: > Hi Folks > > Today I went looking for oil on the internet. A friend who has done a > big favor requested I don't pay him money but get engine oil for him to > defer costs. He requested Phillips X/C 20W50. > > I searched the net using google and my quest led me to: > http://www.mooneymart.com/ShopSite/engine_accessories.html > > they had the best rate if one considered also the shipping charges. I > duly ordered 2 cases and stuck them on my credit card. In return the > website made a receipt for me. on reading the receipt I found an error, > was my mistake. > > Called the number on the web site and was told that the prices on the > website are wrong, that the price on my receipt was wrong, matter of > fact, I was told there are warnings on their website that the prices are > wrong and that the website was 'down'. > > When told that I found their site through google, the person I talked to > admitted that I would not see the warnings, which after all are on a > different page. He was aware of this problem. He had no answer as to why > his transaction server was up and running, charging credit cards and > wrong pricing, if the website was really 'down'. ( it merrily acepted my > credit card info ). I was then connected to another person who offered > the same oil for about a dollar a bottle more, making it about the most > expensive oil around and that they are changing ownership. I was told > that the 'manager' or new owner would call me back. > Of course, I never got a call back, I tried several times to call the > supplied number with no success. I will call my credit card company, and > put a stop on the payment. I called the better business bureau, they > were very interested as it would be both interstate commerce and wire > fraud if my credit card would be charged. > > Now, to me, an analogy would be to go to macdonalds, order food from the > menu, pay and get a receipt. then whilst you wait for your tray to be > filled, the manager tells you that you can't have your food because the > prices on the menu board and charged by the person behind the counter > were wrong and by the way if you had come into macdonalds through the > other door you could have read the notice that the prices displayed are > wrong. please pay extra or go away. > > I don't expect mooneymart to part the red sea for me, nor would I want > to see a struggeling aviation shop to go under. I would have liked at > least a confirmation that the transaction can not be consumed and that > my credit card will not be charged, so far I have neither. I really > don't want an appology, just a reasurance. > > > There is a silver lining, the next best price I found, at > www.stylesaviation.com, looked to good to be true too. 12 bottles bought > separate would be cheaper than buying the same 12 in a case. Sent a > quick email, and sure enough, the pricing on the website was old for the > separate bottles. > > HOWEVER, I received a nice thank you email and was told that Styles > Aviation stood by their pricing and would honor the website pricing at > least today to give me a chance to buy the oil at the wrong price via > the website. > > I duly ordered my oil from Styles Aviation and got a good rate on > shipping too. > > I am in no way related to either website, nor have I done business with > either before, I'll know however that I'll be back shopping at Styles > Aviation, just for the fact that they honored their published pricing. > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: question on windscreen fairing for slider
Date: Sep 25, 2003
> Is it recommended to do anything to the inside of the > windscreen to block the view of the backside of the bond area > at the base of the windscreen? I'm wondering if I should > paint that area on the inside of the windscreen. (I couldn't > find an answer in the archives.) > > Chris Heitman > Dousman WI > RV-9A N94ME (reserved) > ready to install windscreen I painted mine with flat black spray paint from the hardware store. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 373 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS & IFR
Date: Sep 25, 2003
OK, Time to jump in here. There is nothing in the regs requiring the instruments in an Amateur-Built aircraft to be TSO'd. There are some that say they must meet the requirements for a TSO but that is different. I have gone round and round on this issue with several people and they have ALL so far had to agree with this. There is nothing in 91.205 about TSO'd instruments. NOW, let's quickly talk the other side. Your friendly neighborhood FAA Inspector or DAR does have to sign off your aircraft in your logbook. He is saying that it meets the requirements for the certificate sought. He is taking on a pretty big responsibility and may not be familiar with some instruments/systems that are not TSO'd (like the Dynon EFIS D-10). Therefore he may not be confortable with signing that off for IFR. If that does happen and you don't like the respose you are getting from him/her, then bump it up to their superviser. You can do that all the way up to the Administrator if you so desire. If you have any questions feel free to drop me a line directly and we can talk. Mike Robertson Das Fed >From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Rv-List(at)Matronics. Com" , >"Rv9-List(at)Matronics. Com" , "Rv8-List(at)Matronics. >Com" , "Rv7-List(at)Matronics. Com" >, "Rv6-List(at)Matronics. Com" > >Subject: RV-List: EFIS & IFR >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:28:09 -0600 SUSPICIOUS_RECIPS > > > >It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative >and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not >sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to >positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or >equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA >positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly >IFR. > >I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is >no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in >experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR >who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, >then please let me know. > > >Sincerely, > >Noel Simmons > > Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: washers, forward elevator pushrod end
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Have you tried a piece od .020 safety wire or fishing line yet? If you haven't thread the line thru the control yoke, then the washer, the rod end, the other washer, then the other side of the control yoke. Once all threaded pull on both ends of the line and most times everything will pop into place enough to put a tapered pin punch on one end to further line up the mass. Once the line is out and the puch is in you can tehn slide a bolt in, pushing the pin punch out. This has worked for me several times when nothing else would. Mike Robertson >From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: washers, forward elevator pushrod end >Date: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 11:13:59 -0700 > > >I'm having one heck of a hard time getting the front rod end of the fwd >elevator pushrod attached to the control column. On the RV-7, the plans >call for one AN960-10 washer on each side of the bearing, sandwiched >between >the bearing and the control column. The issue is that I can't really >access >that area easily now that everything's assembled. I can get one washer in >no problem, then put the rod end in -- it's the 2nd washer that's a real >bear to install. > >I've tried the tape-tab, superglue the washer to a screwdriver tip, hold >each washer with one bolt from each side, etc. tricks and it's just so >confined in there I can't seem to nail it. It's tough because the body of >the rod end blocks access from behind, and I can't really get in front of >it >with my hands or a tool. > >Any advice on this? I'll keep on keepin' on, but if there are other tricks >I'd love to hear about 'em! > >Thanks, >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > High-speed Internet access as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). Click here. https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gyros and 8 deg panel question.
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Duberstein, Allen" <allen.duberstein(at)intel.com>
Nope...just the DG. Allen Duberstein ODC Processor Architecture 503-712-2323 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillRVSIX(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Gyros and 8 deg panel question. Hello Quick question on a panel that has a 8 deg tilt I know the artificial horizon has to have the tilt built in but dose the DG and turn coordinator need to be set up for the 8 deg tilt panel. Bill Higgins RV-6 = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Gyros and 8 deg panel question.
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Duberstein, Allen" <allen.duberstein(at)intel.com>
SO next try....it's the AH that needs to be changed. If you don't alter it you appear to be flying uphill all the time. Sorry for the goof on previous mail allen Allen Duberstein ODC Processor Architecture 503-712-2323 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BillRVSIX(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Gyros and 8 deg panel question. Hello Quick question on a panel that has a 8 deg tilt I know the artificial horizon has to have the tilt built in but dose the DG and turn coordinator need to be set up for the 8 deg tilt panel. Bill Higgins RV-6 = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: EFIS & IFR
> > >It appears that these FAA regs alone are not enough. My FAA representative >and our FAA DAR (who is a homebuilder, too!) has told me that it is not >sufficient to follow all the rules; instead, an FAA rep or DAR needs to >positively approve it. If the instrument avionics are not TSO'ed or >equivalent, then they will not sign off on it. Period. Without the FAA >positive approval, even if you do not violate any FAA regs, you cannot fly >IFR. > >I think the FAA inspectors/DAR do not want to risk their jobs, and there is >no specific instruction to them that non TSO'ed instruments are ok in >experimentals, so they just refuse. If you can find one FAA inspector/DAR >who is willing to sign off e.g., a bluemountainavionics EFIS for IFR use, >then please let me know. > > >Sincerely, > >Noel Simmons Where does it say that an FAA or DAR signature is needed? Don't the standard Operating Limitations simply say something to the effect of "Aircraft restricted to day VFR unless equipped in accordance with FAR 91.XXX", where 91.XXX lists the equipment requirements for night or IFR. So it is up to the pilot to decide whether the aircraft equipment meets the requirements of FAR 91. Why make it more complicated than that? By all means exercise good judgement and common sense when you decide whether the aircraft is suitably equipped or not, but don't try to fight needless bureaucratic battles. Kevin Horton ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com>
Subject: Re: Resolver vs Converter education
Ralph, If you have the choice, use the resolver output rather than the converter. If you have to use the converter output on the SL30, you lose the ability to monitor the radial on the standby VOR frequency. Unfortunately, I chose a KI-209 CDI head before realizing this :-( Chris Good, http://rv.supermatrix.com West Bend, WI RV-6A 600 hrs -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Thu, 25 Sep 2003 12:53:06 From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> > >Fellow listers, > >My UPSAT SL30 outputs both converter and resolver signals for an external CDI. That and my GX60 are switched through the ACU for input to the whatever brand CDI. > >I have a NSD-1000 HSI that I am installing in the panel of my RV6A which takes both of these signal types - this is intended to be the primary CDI. The Narco NAV122D/GPS that I have will also take these signals as inputs. > >The instructions for my SL30 indicate that the resolver signals need to be calibrated and should not be switched. These instructions also state that supplemental CDI's should use converter signals only. > >I'm trying to understand the functionality provided by these different type of signals.... > >Are they complementary - or similar in functionality? Can one set of signals be used without the other? > >Thanks, >Ralph Capen >Soooooo many little wires Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
Subject: ANR Headsets
Date: Sep 25, 2003
I am getting ready to buy ANR headsets. What is everyone happy with? Rich Crosley RV-8 engine & finish stuff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: washers, forward elevator pushrod end
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Dan, A trick I used was to cut a strip of scrap .025" aluminum, say, 5/8" wide, length to suit and slot the end of it slightly narrower than the diameter of the washer and file it so that you can snap it into the slot and it stays in place (you can persuade it with a drop super glue if you wish) and then feed the washer into the gap between the parts and feed the bolt through it. Then it's easy to pull the "tool" out.You can bend and shape this "tool" to suit your access needs. You will find some other places that a similar "tool" can be useful, one is installing the aileron hinge and push-rod bolts which are hard to get to because the outboard end of the flap is in the way, but for that "tool", I cut the slot on the side of the end of the strip to get the required access. A similar "tool" can be made to hold nuts. Cheers!!-----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Subject: H10-40 Headsets for sale (Sold)
Date: Sep 25, 2003
The headses have been sold.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> Subject: H10-40 Headsets for sale Listers, I have two H10-40 headsets that I am no longer using, and would like to sell. Both are a few years old, but in excellent condition. One has a head pad and gel ear muffs. Both have foam mike filters. I'm asking $150.00 each, or $275.00 for both. Anybody interested should contact me off the list at the email address below. Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 54 Hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2003
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: New Ray Allen G307 stick grips
Listers, Has anyone purchased the new stick grips from Ray Allen Co. yet? What is your opinion of them? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dougpsr(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Subject: Re: New Ray Allen G307 stick grips
Charlie, what is web address for Ray Allen? How is your project coming? Has Eric flown yet? We are putting our 8 in the paint shop the end of next month. Sure be glad when it is done. Ya'll take care. Doug Preston ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Gyros and 8 deg panel question.
Date: Sep 25, 2003
> -----Or > > SO next try....it's the AH that needs to be changed. If you > don't alter it you appear to be flying uphill all the time. > I don't believe this is the problem with using a non 8 degree tilt gyro in our panels; if it were, one need only reset the little airplane. The problem with a non tilt gyro is the various errors which will occur during turns and acceleration/deceleration. Gyros, like everything else, have compromises. One is that there are inherent errors that occur, for example, during turns. If you watch closely, and execute a 180 turn, you will notice a slight error on a AH gyro after stopping the turn. This error is likely quite small, but will be bigger if you are in an 8 degree climb (or have a non tilt gyro - same thing). I don't know how much the relative errors are in the two cases. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 373 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick N" <rvator(at)nicknaf.com>
Subject: ANR Headsets
Date: Sep 25, 2003
Really depends on what your preference / budget is. My first set is a Headsets Inc. conversion for my DC 10-30's. Inexpensive ($250 ish), easy to install, works as advertised, overall I'm very happy with the kit. Takes 1 9v battery which lasts (if you remember to turn it off, the new kits have a auto off feature) about 15-20 hours. My only complaint with them was that my head would start to feel squeezed after about 2 hours. This was in no way related to the conversion, but rather a typical DC feature. At Sun-N-Fun this spring I bought a pair of Lightspeed G3 Thirty's. WAY comfortable! I can wear these all day with no problem. Battery life is about double with two AA's. The G3's have Cell phone and Music input, which I thought would be a neat toy at the time, but find invaluable now. The ability to plug my MP3 player directly into the headset has been great on those long cross countries, as the Cherokee I fly now does not have a music input on the intercom. Cell Phone input... I really didn't' think I would use this. I was wrong. Getting a Clearance from FSS from the run up area is now a non-issue. No more straining to hear them over the cockpit noise, and no more running from the FBO jumping in the airplane trying to make a Void time. I'm VERY happy with my Lightspeed's and hard pressed to buy anything else. Nick Disclaimer: I'm in no way affiliated with either ANR Inc. (http://www.headsetsinc.com/) or Lightspeed (http://www.anrheadsets.com). Just a satisfied customer of both. -----Original Message----- From: Crosley, Rich [mailto:RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM] Subject: RV-List: ANR Headsets I am getting ready to buy ANR headsets. What is everyone happy with? Rich Crosley RV-8 engine & finish stuff = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Seats & head to canopy clearnace
Just read the post about the head sets hitting the canopy. This reminded me of something I did when I ordered my seats. I am 6' 3" and find it very difficult to find anything that fits me right such as cars airplanes etc. So, when ordering my seats form Oregon Aero I had them make the front seat bottom in 2 pieces. What they did was cut off 2 inches of the bottom of the front seat and ship both pieces. I installed them on a hot day so the foam compressed quickly. I put them in sat down closed the canopy and realized I only had 1" clearance to the top of the canopy with out head sets. Pulled out the 2" thick piece got back in and everything is now perfect. I highly recommend having Oregon Aero make this modification for anyone near 6' 3" or taller. Just imagine you have the seats upholstered and then realize the seat bottom is too thick! Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: ANR Headsets
Nick, What happens during cruise when ATC broadcasts while listening to music? Does the music stay or cut out? Charlie Kuss > >Really depends on what your preference / budget is. My first set is a >Headsets Inc. conversion for my DC 10-30's. Inexpensive ($250 ish), >easy to install, works as advertised, overall I'm very happy with the >kit. Takes 1 9v battery which lasts (if you remember to turn it off, >the new kits have a auto off feature) about 15-20 hours. My only >complaint with them was that my head would start to feel squeezed after >about 2 hours. This was in no way related to the conversion, but rather >a typical DC feature. > >At Sun-N-Fun this spring I bought a pair of Lightspeed G3 Thirty's. WAY >comfortable! I can wear these all day with no problem. Battery life is >about double with two AA's. The G3's have Cell phone and Music input, >which I thought would be a neat toy at the time, but find invaluable >now. The ability to plug my MP3 player directly into the headset has >been great on those long cross countries, as the Cherokee I fly now does >not have a music input on the intercom. Cell Phone input... I really >didn't' think I would use this. I was wrong. Getting a Clearance from >FSS from the run up area is now a non-issue. No more straining to hear >them over the cockpit noise, and no more running from the FBO jumping in >the airplane trying to make a Void time. > >I'm VERY happy with my Lightspeed's and hard pressed to buy anything >else. > >Nick >Disclaimer: I'm in no way affiliated with either ANR Inc. > (http://www.headsetsinc.com/) or Lightspeed >(http://www.anrheadsets.com). Just a satisfied customer of both. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Crosley, Rich [mailto:RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM] >To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com' >Subject: RV-List: ANR Headsets > >I am getting ready to buy ANR headsets. What is everyone happy with? > > > >Rich Crosley >RV-8 engine & finish stuff > > >= >= >http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report >= >= > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: FAB to carb attach
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Van's issued a service bulletin, 96-10-1 on 10-8-96 dealing with the subject. For those of you that have not seen it, here is the gist: "----The four bolts used to fasten the VA-130C (FAB-320) or the VA131C ((FAB-360) to the carburetor must be safetied. This may be accomplished by either using bolts with drilled heads and safety wiring them in pairs, or installing tab lock washers under the bolt heads. If the tab lock washers are used , a 1/8" hole must be drilled in the top plate for the tab that prevents the washer from rotating. After the bolt is installed, an ear of the washer is bent up against one flat of the bolt head, preventing the bolt from moving."-- Cheers!!---Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: need tip up canopy repair ideas
Date: Sep 26, 2003
>In the original manual for my 6 (1990) it was optional regarding the >installation of the pop rivets (CS4-4) through the canopy base molding. For >the 6A it calls up the installation of these rivets at 4 inch spacing, was >wondering if you have those rivets installed. Although it may have happened >I have not heard of one separating with the rivets installed. My 1994 vintage manual also called up the rivets as per Eustace's post above. A word of caution if you have not installed the rivets and are about to so, be careful that the rivets near the center clear the metal strip below that holds the weather strip. I know of an unfortunate individual who installed the rivets and found he couldn't open his canopy after the fact, having the rivets go right through into the weather strip angle! Cheers!!----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick N" <rvator(at)nicknaf.com>
Subject: ANR Headsets
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Its selectable on the battery box. You can set it to either soft mute where it drops to about 5-10% of original volume when either the radio or the intercom comes alive, or the always on mode where it will not mute no matter who is talking. I fly probably 98% of the time with the mute feature turned on. It's a VERY quick fade out, not a sudden chop like some I've seen. I've found the setup very friendly on the ears when switching from Pink Floyd to Denver Center! :-) Nick -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss Subject: RE: RV-List: ANR Headsets Nick, What happens during cruise when ATC broadcasts while listening to music? Does the music stay or cut out? Charlie Kuss > >Really depends on what your preference / budget is. My first set is a >Headsets Inc. conversion for my DC 10-30's. Inexpensive ($250 ish), >easy to install, works as advertised, overall I'm very happy with the >kit. Takes 1 9v battery which lasts (if you remember to turn it off, >the new kits have a auto off feature) about 15-20 hours. My only >complaint with them was that my head would start to feel squeezed after >about 2 hours. This was in no way related to the conversion, but rather >a typical DC feature. > >At Sun-N-Fun this spring I bought a pair of Lightspeed G3 Thirty's. WAY >comfortable! I can wear these all day with no problem. Battery life is >about double with two AA's. The G3's have Cell phone and Music input, >which I thought would be a neat toy at the time, but find invaluable >now. The ability to plug my MP3 player directly into the headset has >been great on those long cross countries, as the Cherokee I fly now does >not have a music input on the intercom. Cell Phone input... I really >didn't' think I would use this. I was wrong. Getting a Clearance from >FSS from the run up area is now a non-issue. No more straining to hear >them over the cockpit noise, and no more running from the FBO jumping in >the airplane trying to make a Void time. > >I'm VERY happy with my Lightspeed's and hard pressed to buy anything >else. > >Nick >Disclaimer: I'm in no way affiliated with either ANR Inc. > (http://www.headsetsinc.com/) or Lightspeed >(http://www.anrheadsets.com). Just a satisfied customer of both. > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Crosley, Rich [mailto:RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM] >To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com' >Subject: RV-List: ANR Headsets > >I am getting ready to buy ANR headsets. What is everyone happy with? > > > >Rich Crosley >RV-8 engine & finish stuff > > >= >= >http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report >= >= > > = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit
Date: Sep 26, 2003
I want to install the Dynon AOA meter which requires the Gretz Aero (http://www.gretzaero.com/) pitot bracket kit. I had already drilled my 6A wing as per plans for the standard pitot installation. Does anyone with a 6A know if the bracket installs in the same location? I contacted Gretz and have not received a reply. Don Mack don(at)dmack.net www.dmack.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Don, It does not. The Gretz mount is installed aft of the Spar adjacent to a rib. With the extended profile of the pitot tube design (Dynon's included) that fits the Gretz mount the measuring point is in approximately the same air as the standard vans design. In our quick build, where the piot hole is already drilled, we put a pop-in style chrome button in the old pitot mount hole and make a new hole closer to the rib. Mounting instructions for the Gretz mount come with the mount. Mike Robertson >From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 08:55:21 -0500 > > >I want to install the Dynon AOA meter which requires the Gretz Aero >(http://www.gretzaero.com/) pitot bracket kit. I had already drilled my 6A >wing as per plans for the standard pitot installation. Does anyone with a >6A >know if the bracket installs in the same location? I contacted Gretz and >have not received a reply. > >Don Mack >don(at)dmack.net www.dmack.net > > Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Aux Battery Location
Date: Sep 26, 2003
For those building all-electric airplanes with an aux battery, here's an idea for its location. See my installation at: http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch go to RV-7 Project, then Aux Batt Mount. Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 QB (Building) Vero Beach, FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Subject: Re: FAB to carb attach
Mark: I drilled the heads of grade 8 bolts from the aviation supply aisle at the local hardware store and safety wired them in pairs. Drilling those suckers was (is) a challenge (learning experience). I went through four drill bits and as many extra bolts trying to use my clunky drill press. A friend with a good quality combi mill/drill press tool finally showed me how to do it. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Don, actually you can mount the Gretz pitot kit in several locations. I found it more convenient to move it to the next bay outboard of the inspection cover to give more clearance from the tiedown. If you have already drilled the hole in the flange/skin for Van's pilot tube, the Gretz doubler has a joggle/flange that will probably cover this hole. Or you could patch the hole and move the Gretz kit outboard. Pat Hatch RV-4 RV-6 RV-7 QB (Building) Vero Beach, FL ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net> Subject: RV-List: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit > > I want to install the Dynon AOA meter which requires the Gretz Aero > (http://www.gretzaero.com/) pitot bracket kit. I had already drilled my 6A > wing as per plans for the standard pitot installation. Does anyone with a 6A > know if the bracket installs in the same location? I contacted Gretz and > have not received a reply. > > Don Mack > don(at)dmack.net www.dmack.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: question on windscreen fairing for slider
Has anyone used a very dark or black window tint film trimmed to just cover the bond area? I am in the process of painting an RV-8 with PPG Concept and need to do something about the back side of the molding that shows through the canopy also. Will be painting the fuselage in a week or so. Cowling is painted and I am on a break letting the primer setup on the wing tips I just painted. Starting to develop a nice feeling for PPG Concept. I was planning on one gallon of primer and two gallons of color but that is looking like it isn't going to be enough. Steve Eberhart RV-7A - working on wings and painting a friend's RV-8 lex Peterson wrote: > >>Is it recommended to do anything to the inside of the >>windscreen to block the view of the backside of the bond area >>at the base of the windscreen? I'm wondering if I should >>paint that area on the inside of the windscreen. (I couldn't >>find an answer in the archives.) >> >>Chris Heitman >>Dousman WI >>RV-9A N94ME (reserved) >>ready to install windscreen > > > > I painted mine with flat black spray paint from the hardware store. > > Alex Peterson > Maple Grove, MN > RV6-A N66AP 373 hours > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "McFarland, Randy" <Randy.McFarland(at)novellus.com>
Subject: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit
Date: Sep 26, 2003
That makes two of us with that question. R ---------- From: Don Mack [SMTP:don(at)dmack.net] Sent: Friday, September 26, 2003 6:55 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit I want to install the Dynon AOA meter which requires the Gretz Aero (http://www.gretzaero.com/) pitot bracket kit. I had already drilled my 6A wing as per plans for the standard pitot installation. Does anyone with a 6A know if the bracket installs in the same location? I contacted Gretz and have not received a reply. Don Mack don(at)dmack.net www.dmack.net http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Rob Miller <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: FAB to carb attach
Mark Spencer Aircraft in Washington State has just the bolts you need--Coarse threads with drilled heads. The ones that came with the engine are not drilled--not good, you wouldn't want the carb to ingest a loosened bolt and mine were not quite long enough. Spencer has a number of sizes and I enjoy doing business with them. Rob Miller -8 N262RM "Bad Cat" 150 hours visit us at www.badcataviation.com HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote: Mark: I drilled the heads of grade 8 bolts from the aviation supply aisle at the local hardware store and safety wired them in pairs. Drilling those suckers was (is) a challenge (learning experience). I went through four drill bits and as many extra bolts trying to use my clunky drill press. A friend with a good quality combi mill/drill press tool finally showed me how to do it. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: IFR
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Mike, the question as I see it is that most EXPs are certified as VFR and are now allowed to make major alterations with a log book sign off and 5 hours of flight testing. So does making the major alterations such that it is now IFR qualified constitute only making major alterations or does it constitute a change in certification status which is then being interpreted as a need for recertification. From what I can devine from my Special Airworthiness Certificate addendum this is only a major alteration and the aircraft is still Special Airworthiness - Experimental regardless of mission capabilities. I would also state that parts of FAR 91.205 D are quickly becoming out of date given the pending evolution of technology and I would hope your contemporaries are looking at that. But I'm not sure there is a fix that would ever be received well in the NPRM process. The key seems to be a clarification of the term "Gyroscopic". Must this be an object of definable mass spinning around, or can it be an electronic sensor system sensing the same or similarly reliable physical phenomina? At this point, in your shoes with my inspector/agent status on the line I would be conservative and say, "The Law says, where is the gyro in it???" But that doesn't preclude that the new systems aren't viable and should be allowed into our airplanes for IFR use. It is one of the FAA's charters to help maintain the economic viability of this industry. So it will be interesting to see how this plays out. W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: ANR Headsets
Michael J. Robbins wrote: > So, you have to try them all if you are going to buy the high end ones. And > you generally do get what you pay for. For what it's worth, here's a link to a review our flying club did a while ago. In the end, we decided the Lightspeed QFR Cross Country was the best ANR headset "bang-for-the-buck". They're not pretty, but they are pretty robust, and they do work well. As always, your mileage may vary. http://www.b4.ca/raa_85/story/ANRHeadsets/ -Rob Prior rv7 "at" b4.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: IFR
I didn't realize the DAR or FAA inspector had any say in whether the plane can be flown under an IFR flight plan. The operating limitations allow day VFR ops, and night VFR/IFR ops if equipped according to 91.205; it is the pilot's responsibility to determine whether or not the plane is so equipped. There is no such thing as an "FAA IFR certification" for an experimental aircraft. The big question is whether or not the insurance carrier is satisfied the aircraft was properly equipped for the conditions under which an accident occurred. Sam Buchanan ================== Wheeler North wrote: > > > Mike, > > the question as I see it is that most EXPs are certified as VFR and are now > allowed to make major alterations with a log book sign off and 5 hours of > flight testing. So does making the major alterations such that it is now IFR > qualified constitute only making major alterations or does it constitute a > change in certification status which is then being interpreted as a need for > recertification. From what I can devine from my Special Airworthiness > Certificate addendum this is only a major alteration and the aircraft is > still Special Airworthiness - Experimental regardless of mission > capabilities. > > I would also state that parts of FAR 91.205 D are quickly becoming out of > date given the pending evolution of technology and I would hope your > contemporaries are looking at that. But I'm not sure there is a fix that > would ever be received well in the NPRM process. The key seems to be a > clarification of the term "Gyroscopic". Must this be an object of definable > mass spinning around, or can it be an electronic sensor system sensing the > same or similarly reliable physical phenomina? > > At this point, in your shoes with my inspector/agent status on the line I > would be conservative and say, "The Law says, where is the gyro in it???" > But that doesn't preclude that the new systems aren't viable and should be > allowed into our airplanes for IFR use. It is one of the FAA's charters to > help maintain the economic viability of this industry. So it will be > interesting to see how this plays out. > > W > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: IFR
Date: Sep 26, 2003
Wheeler, See notes imbedded in each paragraph > > >Mike, > >the question as I see it is that most EXPs are certified as VFR and are now >allowed to make major alterations with a log book sign off and 5 hours of >flight testing. So does making the major alterations such that it is now >IFR >qualified constitute only making major alterations or does it constitute a >change in certification status which is then being interpreted as a need >for >recertification. From what I can devine from my Special Airworthiness >Certificate addendum this is only a major alteration and the aircraft is >still Special Airworthiness - Experimental regardless of mission >capabilities. > On this issue we really need to look at YOUR aircraft's Operating Limitations and what they say. If you have the older operating limitations that state you must seek and get approval for any major change then you will need to seek approval for installing those extra items need on your aircraft to meet the requirements of 91.205(e). Those same older operating limitations alwo usually stated that your aircraft was/is restricted to VFR day, or VFR night, of IFR. If you have the newer operating limitations that allow you to make major changes/alterations yourself and place the aircraft back into a five hour test flight period, then you are in luck because these limitations also usually say that your aircraft is restricted to day VFR unless appropriately equipped for night and/or IFR. So on these you install the needed equipment, test fly it for a minimum of 5 hours, sign it off yourself and go fly night and/or IFR. But for those of you with the older operating limitations there is an out. If you have the older operating limitations you can apply for, and will be granted, newer operating limitations as layed out in Order 8130.2E. This order is available to all on the internet. >I would also state that parts of FAR 91.205 D are quickly becoming out of >date given the pending evolution of technology and I would hope your >contemporaries are looking at that. But I'm not sure there is a fix that >would ever be received well in the NPRM process. The key seems to be a >clarification of the term "Gyroscopic". Must this be an object of definable >mass spinning around, or can it be an electronic sensor system sensing the >same or similarly reliable physical phenomina? If you were to look in Part 23.1311 you will notice that the newer MFD instruments are addressed and can replace "gyroscopic" instruments. So now instead of "Gyroscopic" meaning a physical style of instrument it has evolved to be understood to mean a gyroscopic type of instrument. In type certificated aircraft if they do use MFDs for their flight instruments they must also have a backup but this does not apply to homebuilt aircraft. The important thing here is that we are supposed to already recognize MFDs as a gyropscopic type of instrument if it displays attitude, etc. > >At this point, in your shoes with my inspector/agent status on the line I >would be conservative and say, "The Law says, where is the gyro in it???" >But that doesn't preclude that the new systems aren't viable and should be >allowed into our airplanes for IFR use. It is one of the FAA's charters to >help maintain the economic viability of this industry. So it will be >interesting to see how this plays out. > At this time I am trying to put together the needed information, with specifics, to write something to clarify this issue. Generally speaking I hate writing lengthly documents but I feel strongly that this issue needs some input so I am going to try to force myself to write this. Unfortunately something of this nature has to be reviewed by the powers on high so it will take several weeks before I will be able to let it out. I will let everybody know when it is ready. Mike Robertson Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Gretz Aero pitot bracket kit
Date: Sep 26, 2003
It doesn't.... I have some pictures if you want to see what I did. Zap me directly, Ralph Capen ***SNIP*** > I want to install the Dynon AOA meter which requires the Gretz Aero > (http://www.gretzaero.com/) pitot bracket kit. I had already drilled my 6A > wing as per plans for the standard pitot installation. Does anyone with a 6A > know if the bracket installs in the same location? I contacted Gretz and > have not received a reply. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2003
From: "Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov>
Subject: New RV Flying
Just wanted to let everyone know - kit # 81610, an RV-8A (N627TT), is now flying. 180 hp. Aero Sport Power, carb, Sensenich fixed pitch 85", full interior, day/night VFR, 1107 lbs. A lot of thanks to John Crabtree, Vince Frazier, and Steve Steckler for all their help, and especially John's "engineering s*** ". Special thanks to my most patient and loveable wife, Terri, who, by the way, designed the paint scheme and the interior, and installed the interior. Flys GREAT! Only 8 hours so far - can't wait to get some more stick time! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Stephenson" <mike(at)proclaimweb.com>
Subject: Re: Seats & head to canopy clearnace
Date: Sep 26, 2003
At Oshkosh, I purchased an ear plug headset from http://www.quiettechnologies.com/ for less than the cost of a good ANR headset you get better noise canceling and it will never hit the canopy. The total weight is 0.38 oz (11 grams) I have 20 hours flight time on it in both a Cessna Skylane and an RV-6A and there is nothing better. I have already sold my David Clark and Lightspeed headsets. Sweaty ears no more and no more bad hair days for my wife.!!!! The company is owned by a nice feller who will return you money if you don't like them. Not everyone can wear this headset. If you ear canal is shaped like a funnel the boom mic will pivot downward. If your canal has a slight angle it works very well. <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > Just read the post about the head sets hitting the canopy. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: High Pressure Fuel Pump Location - RV6A??
Date: Sep 26, 2003
I'm wondering where the RV6 folks with I0-360's mount the high pressure fuel pump that's required. I really don't like the idea of running it down the center floor. Does anyone have any good pictures I can take a look at for ideas? Thanks.. David Schaefer RV6-A Finish ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: High Pressure Fuel Pump Location - RV6A??
Date: Sep 26, 2003
> I'm wondering where the RV6 folks with I0-360's mount the > high pressure fuel pump that's required. I really don't like > the idea of running it down the center floor. Does anyone > have any good pictures I can take a look at for ideas? > > Thanks.. > > David Schaefer David, see http://www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson and click on misc, you can see where I mounted mine. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 373 hours (doing second annual already!) www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <pshipley17(at)comcast.net>
Subject: HIO-360-D1A
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Is the HIO-360-D1A from the Schweizer 300C helicopter practical for use in an RV? This is the angle valve engine with a conical mount and a rear mount for the fuel injection servo. I am building an RV-4 and was wondering if the modifications would be worth the effort. Would this engine be suitable for an RV-8? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
From: FlashandCo(at)aol.com
Subject: Bottom Cowl Exit
There was some discussion just recently about adding a "scupper" to the bottom cowl exit, apparently to create a better low pressure area for cooling air exit. I just trimmed the bottom edge of my RV6/O-360 bottom cowl but left the cowl exit (center part) edge long as it came from Van's. Is there any benefit to the longer edge (better alignment of exit air) or should I just cut it in line with the bottom cowl aft edge? Looks like the Vetterman exhaust would work fine either way. Bob Gordon Dover DE RV6 Electrics, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Van's brake system and rear seat rudder pedal extensions
Date: Sep 27, 2003
I am inventorying my QB fuse parts and am having second thoughts on a couple of items. I got the RV8 rear passenger rudder extensions. I am now leaning towards them being a $93 dollar waste and think I would rather put the $ towards something like the Andair fuel valve or a different brake master cylinder system. Who's got a URL showing an alternative master cylinder system that'll provide a low/easy maintenance and cleanup job? Any firm opinions? thx, lucky Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Tailgummer(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: Van's brake system and rear seat rudder pedal extensions
You may want to see Randy Lervold's website: Click here: RV-8.com - Ideas & Products ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Bottom Cowl Exit
> >There was some discussion just recently about adding a "scupper" to the >bottom cowl exit, apparently to create a better low pressure area for >cooling air exit. I just trimmed the bottom edge of my RV6/O-360 bottom >cowl but left the cowl exit (center part) edge long as it came from >Van's. Is there any benefit to the longer edge (better alignment of exit >air) or should I just cut it in line with the bottom cowl aft edge? Looks >like the Vetterman exhaust would work fine either way. > >Bob Gordon >Dover DE >RV6 Electrics, etc. Unless you are having cooling problems I'd leave it straight. No sense in adding extra drag that isn't needed. Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Bottom Cowl Exit
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Hi Bob, You are ok leaving it be for the time being, but you may find out that you need to trim some more off. I left mine, but ended up cutting about another inch off this summer to keep my CHT's in order. Depends on the airplane. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of FlashandCo(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Bottom Cowl Exit There was some discussion just recently about adding a "scupper" to the bottom cowl exit, apparently to create a better low pressure area for cooling air exit. I just trimmed the bottom edge of my RV6/O-360 bottom cowl but left the cowl exit (center part) edge long as it came from Van's. Is there any benefit to the longer edge (better alignment of exit air) or should I just cut it in line with the bottom cowl aft edge? Looks like the Vetterman exhaust would work fine either way. Bob Gordon Dover DE RV6 Electrics, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: Re: Bottom Cowl Exit
Hi All, On the HR2, John Harmon recommends not trimming the bottom of the cowl below the firewall. Just let it extend back along the bottom of the fuselage. This has been found to improve the airflow. However, this is the very end of a long engine cooling system. A few other factors are involved in getting proper cooling. Not to mention low drag. Jim Ayers Less Drag products, Inc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: [ Charles F. Long ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Charles F. Long Subject: GPS Color Moving Map For Less Than $500 http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/charles.long@gm.com.09.27.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: seats fabrics..
Date: Sep 27, 2003
> Hello: > > I am ready to have my seats upholstered, got > samples of materials etc.. > > Question, what is the type most used on our rv's? > besides leather.. > > Are the fabrics, synthetic, cotton, wool? > > the samples I got, do not specified the type > of material.. > > Any information and suggestions will be appreciated > > > Thanks > > > Bert You can do none better than having DJ Lauritsen do your interior. She has done probably the majority of RV's on the planet and her workmanship is impeccable. Contact her at Cleaveland Aircraft Tool and she'll send you samples and discuss all the alternatives. Doug Weiler Hudson, WI RV-4, N722DW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Subject: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Subject: Corrosion Inside Fuel Tank Cap http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.27.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: attaching seats
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Speaking of seats, how does everybody attach the seat cusions to the seat frames. I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back and seat base, with the other half sewn into the fabric cusion. Problem is, I've yet to find a glue that's stronger then the velcro. Any time I need to remove the cusion, the glued velcro strip comes along with it. I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. Any other ideas? Andy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: attaching seats
Date: Sep 27, 2003
> Speaking of seats, how does everybody attach the seat cusions > to the seat frames. > > I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back > and seat base, with the other half sewn into the fabric > cusion. Problem is, I've yet to find a glue that's stronger > then the velcro. Any time I need to remove the cusion, the > glued velcro strip comes along with it. > > I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. > Any other ideas? > > Andy The stick'em that is on good quality velcro will probably hold. To improve the odds, though, have the piece that is sewn to the seats be much smaller than the piece that is stuck onto the metal. This will avoid pulling up an edge. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 373 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
From: "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com>
Subject: attaching seats
In a couple of places, I've found that a pop rivet at each end of a long pice of velcro will stop it peeling away. Chris. good. -- --------- Original Message --------- DATE: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 18:23:19 From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> > >> Speaking of seats, how does everybody attach the seat cusions >> to the seat frames. >> >> I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back >> and seat base, with the other half sewn into the fabric >> cusion. Problem is, I've yet to find a glue that's stronger >> then the velcro. Any time I need to remove the cusion, the >> glued velcro strip comes along with it. >> >> I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. >> Any other ideas? >> >> Andy > >The stick'em that is on good quality velcro will probably hold. To >improve the odds, though, have the piece that is sewn to the seats be >much smaller than the piece that is stuck onto the metal. This will >avoid pulling up an edge. > >Alex Peterson >Maple Grove, MN >RV6-A N66AP 373 hours >www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson Get advanced SPAM filtering on Webmail or POP Mail ... Get Lycos Mail! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Hi listers, Matronics has just posted a Photo Share that I submitted on the subject. To say that I was surprised to find what I did is an understatement considering the short time the aircraft has been in service. I hope the text of the photo-share and what I added below can be useful to you if you encounter the same problems. I'd like to expand on some details over the write-up in the photo-share: After the penetrating oil soaking, I chucked the stud in my lathe and removed the stud, but some skidding occurred which caused some scoring that can be seen in the photo, and as can be seen, the remnant of the roll-pin There is no evidence of any plating on the parts and there should be. At least Cad plating (like rivets) or preferably Nickel plating to prevent the corrosion observed. Another problem which caused the reason for the attempt of adjustment was that the latch-lever no longer nestled flat inside the top cap when closed. There is a fiber spacer-washer beneath the latch-lever which takes the brunt of the pressure of the latch when it is being closed. The fiber material is too soft as there were deep gouge marks in it caused by the lands of the latch. I made a new spacer out of epoxy-glass printed circuit board material and this is working fine. The roll-pin that holds the latch to the stud is 1/16" diameter 3/4" long. I have a good selection of roll pins but not that length in the required diameter. So I ended up using two pins of equal length installed into the stud from each side of the latch lever and seems to work OK. Cheers!!-----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap
Date: Sep 27, 2003
Hi Henry, Just a couple of notes about fuel caps. The "plastic / fiber" spacer under the flipper has since been replaced by Van's with metal spacers. Both my platic ones failed pretty quickly, and I just made my own out of aluminum. Also, regarding the pins, a good drill bit shaft will last forever, those roll pins have a tendency to break. I carry a couple extras now just in case! Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Elsa & Henry Subject: RV-List: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap >>>>>>There is a fiber spacer-washer beneath the latch-lever which takes the brunt of the pressure of the latch when it is being closed. The fiber material is too soft as there were deep gouge marks in it caused by the lands of the latch.>>>> >>>>>The roll-pin that holds the latch to the stud is 1/16" diameter 3/4" long. I have a good selection of roll pins but not that length in the required diameter. So I ended up using two pins of equal length installed into the stud from each side of the latch lever and seems to work OK. Cheers!!-----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Van's brake system and rear seat rudder pedal extensions
Lucky, Just curious, why would you want to change the master cylinder system? Dave lucky macy wrote: > >I am inventorying my QB fuse parts and am having second thoughts on a couple >of items. > >I got the RV8 rear passenger rudder extensions. I am now leaning towards >them being a $93 dollar waste and think I would rather put the $ towards >something like the Andair fuel valve or a different brake master cylinder >system. > >Who's got a URL showing an alternative master cylinder system that'll >provide a low/easy maintenance and cleanup job? > >Any firm opinions? > >thx, >lucky > >Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month >(depending on the local service providers in your area). >https://broadband.msn.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Doug, What engineering design changes did you make to Van's standard RV 6A aircraft to permit a gross weight of 1800 lbs? The RV 6A has been designed and tested to certain load limitations by the kit manufacturer (my RV 6A manual states maximum gross weight as 1650 lbs). Any alteration of these limitations would require certain design changes and possibly flight testing. To forgo such a process is not prudent in my opinion. I hope I have mistakenly misinterpreted your posting, if so I apologize in advance. Safe Flying! Aloha Greg Grigson dmedema(at)att.net wrote: I recently weighed my plane both level and in the normal on-ground attitude. The results were very interesting to me so I thought I would share them. I originally weighed it in the normal on-ground attitude thinking I could convert it to level values using some trig. It turns out you need to know the exact height of the real center-of-gravity to do this calculation. I made an estimate based on the W&B drawings from Van's but didn't feel comfortable with it. I built some ramps to get it level and re-weighed it to get it right. Here are the results On-ground Level Nose tire: 236 272 Right tire: 396 377 Left tire: 394 378 The total weight was only 1 pound different which I consider a good sign of repeatability for the scales. The empty weight c.g. for the on-ground numbers is 70.45 inches while for level, it is 68.51. I'm putting my airplane's gross at 1800 which will allow me to have two 225lb. people, full fuel, and over 90 pounds of baggage and still stay in proper c.g. range and gross weight. C.G. is still ok after all the fuel is used in this scenario. I was quite surprised that lifting the main gear approximately 4 inches transferred 36 more pounds onto the front gear. For reference, the plane is unpainted with minimal interior. It has an 0-320-E2D with standard starter, Van's 35 amp alternator, an Odyssey battery just in front of the firewall, and a fixed pitch Sensenich prop. Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM ready for inspection! --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com>
Matronics RV9 List
Subject: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this better? Warren Hurd 90454 Wings http://www.ahyup.com Mushroomed Rivets ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8ter(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Re: Van's brake system and rear seat rudder pedal extensions
Only because I didn't know ACS made little reservoirs that would fit on Van's cylinders! But someone pointed out to me that ACS sold the A-600 with an unvented plug at the top that can be threaded directly onto Van's master cylinder and they are about $11 a piece. lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Henry & Listers, I have noticed that on one of my tank caps, the lever also doesn't fit down flat, so I'm left wondering if I don't have a similar problem. Since a properly fitted cap is essential for keeping rain water out f the tank, this might well be good iem to add to the conditional inspection list, and/or preflight list....... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 55+ hours From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Subject: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Hi listers, Matronics has just posted a Photo Share that I submitted on the subject. To say that I was surprised to find what I did is an understatement considering the short time the aircraft has been in service. I hope the text of the photo-share and what I added below can be useful to you if you encounter the same problems. I'd like to expand on some details over the write-up in the photo-share: After the penetrating oil soaking, I chucked the stud in my lathe and removed the stud, but some skidding occurred which caused some scoring that can be seen in the photo, and as can be seen, the remnant of the roll-pin There is no evidence of any plating on the parts and there should be. At least Cad plating (like rivets) or preferably Nickel plating to prevent the corrosion observed. Another problem which caused the reason for the attempt of adjustment was that the latch-lever no longer nestled flat inside the top cap when closed. There is a fiber spacer-washer beneath the latch-lever which takes the brunt of the pressure of the latch when it is being closed. The fiber material is too soft as there were deep gouge marks in it caused by the lands of the latch. I made a new spacer out of epoxy-glass printed circuit board material and this is working fine. The roll-pin that holds the latch to the stud is 1/16" diameter 3/4" long. I have a good selection of roll pins but not that length in the required diameter. So I ended up using two pins of equal length installed into the stud from each side of the latch lever and seems to work OK. Cheers!!-----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Re:Bad Wing Rib to Spar Rivets
In my RV-4 the rivets you show were pop rivets to hold main AND nose ribs to the spar. They weren't put in until all other things were done. Might be different on yours. Which one are you building? Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now Charleston, Arkansas "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: BillRVSIX(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: 8 deg panel and gyros Question.
Hello Quick question on a panel that has a 8 deg tilt I know the artificial horizon has to have the tilt built in but dose the DG and turn coordinator need to be set up for the 8 deg tilt panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap
Date: Sep 28, 2003
>Just a couple of notes about fuel caps. The "plastic / fiber" spacer under >the flipper has since been replaced by Van's with metal spacers. Both my >platic ones failed pretty quickly, and I just made my own out of aluminum. >Also, regarding the pins, a good drill bit shaft will last forever, those >roll pins have a tendency to break. I carry a couple extras now just in >case Hi Stein, Yep, I was considering using a 1/16" or a #52-#53 drill-bit shaft, and I would have had I not found suitable roll-pins. But then I mused that it took a lot of torque to break-off the roll-pins and what would break if the stud seizure happened again? Would the latch lever lands break instead of the drill-bit shaft? Who knows? that's why I used the roll-pins. (for now) Cheers!!---Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Greg, Van supplies parts not aircraft, Doug is the manufacturer, as the manufacturer he can sit his own W&B. Van's W&B figures only say that he has tested the aircraft to those limits and it did not break. This airplane is very capable of carrying 1800lbs and many have a W&B limit of 1800 lbs already. It is like you say your 6A manual states a gross weight of 1650lbs. My RV-6 manual says a gross weight of 1600lbs. Whats the deal, they are the same airplane. We all do flight testing on each aircraft built, that is what the stage one flight test period is about. Jerry Greg Grigson wrote: > >Doug, > What engineering design changes did you make to Van's standard RV 6A aircraft to permit a gross weight of 1800 lbs? The RV 6A has been designed and tested to certain load limitations by the kit manufacturer (my RV 6A manual states maximum gross weight as 1650 lbs). Any alteration of these limitations would require certain design changes and possibly flight testing. To forgo such a process is not prudent in my opinion. I hope I have mistakenly misinterpreted your posting, if so I apologize in advance. > >Safe Flying! >Aloha >Greg Grigson > >dmedema(at)att.net wrote: > >I recently weighed my plane both level and in the >normal on-ground attitude. The results were very >interesting to me so I thought I would share them. >I originally weighed it in the normal on-ground >attitude thinking I could convert it to level values >using some trig. It turns out you need to know the >exact height of the real center-of-gravity to do >this calculation. I made an estimate based on the >W&B drawings from Van's but didn't feel comfortable >with it. I built some ramps to get it level and >re-weighed it to get it right. Here are the results > >On-ground Level >Nose tire: 236 272 >Right tire: 396 377 >Left tire: 394 378 > >The total weight was only 1 pound different which I >consider a good sign of repeatability for the scales. >The empty weight c.g. for the on-ground numbers >is 70.45 inches while for level, it is 68.51. >I'm putting my airplane's gross at 1800 which will >allow me to have two 225lb. people, full fuel, and >over 90 pounds of baggage and still stay in proper >c.g. range and gross weight. C.G. is still ok after >all the fuel is used in this scenario. > >I was quite surprised that lifting the main gear >approximately 4 inches transferred 36 more pounds >onto the front gear. For reference, the plane is >unpainted with minimal interior. It has an 0-320-E2D >with standard starter, Van's 35 amp alternator, an >Odyssey battery just in front of the firewall, and >a fixed pitch Sensenich prop. > >Doug Medema >RV-6A N276DM ready for inspection! > > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 28, 2003
CG is more of an issue than weight with this airplane (unless you are talking about pulling more g's) . My 6A weight and balance is listed as 1750 pounds gross. The weight and balance is claimed by the builder, not the kit manufacturer. Van's has listed 1650 as what old blue was set at. On the record van's will tell you that you *should* set your max gross at 1650. Off the record, they will tell you that 1800 is fine, just watch the CG as you burn fuel. I've been loaded to 1700 wihout a problem. Just have to watch the fuel burn. I landed with alot of fuel burned and it required alot of power on landing to keep her level. As long as the pilot ensures that all turns are shallow, no aerobatics, no abrupt maneuvers, etc, this airplane will fly fine at 1800. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Grigson" <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A > > Doug, > What engineering design changes did you make to Van's standard RV 6A aircraft to permit a gross weight of 1800 lbs? The RV 6A has been designed and tested to certain load limitations by the kit manufacturer (my RV 6A manual states maximum gross weight as 1650 lbs). Any alteration of these limitations would require certain design changes and possibly flight testing. To forgo such a process is not prudent in my opinion. I hope I have mistakenly misinterpreted your posting, if so I apologize in advance. > > Safe Flying! > Aloha > Greg Grigson > > dmedema(at)att.net wrote: > > I recently weighed my plane both level and in the > normal on-ground attitude. The results were very > interesting to me so I thought I would share them. > I originally weighed it in the normal on-ground > attitude thinking I could convert it to level values > using some trig. It turns out you need to know the > exact height of the real center-of-gravity to do > this calculation. I made an estimate based on the > W&B drawings from Van's but didn't feel comfortable > with it. I built some ramps to get it level and > re-weighed it to get it right. Here are the results > > On-ground Level > Nose tire: 236 272 > Right tire: 396 377 > Left tire: 394 378 > > The total weight was only 1 pound different which I > consider a good sign of repeatability for the scales. > The empty weight c.g. for the on-ground numbers > is 70.45 inches while for level, it is 68.51. > I'm putting my airplane's gross at 1800 which will > allow me to have two 225lb. people, full fuel, and > over 90 pounds of baggage and still stay in proper > c.g. range and gross weight. C.G. is still ok after > all the fuel is used in this scenario. > > I was quite surprised that lifting the main gear > approximately 4 inches transferred 36 more pounds > onto the front gear. For reference, the plane is > unpainted with minimal interior. It has an 0-320-E2D > with standard starter, Van's 35 amp alternator, an > Odyssey battery just in front of the firewall, and > a fixed pitch Sensenich prop. > > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM ready for inspection! > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
rv-list
Subject: Stick hat switches
Hi Does anybody know an alternate source for hat switches or cooly switches like the one in the Ray Allen grips. Alternate to RAC that is..... looking for one for the back seater. Gert -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Here's my 2 cents: 1) Stabilize the work as best you can. Clamp it down to the bench in multiple places, block it with clamped/screwed down wood, etc. 2) Use a partner. This ought to be #1, actually, but I think stabilization might cure your issues. But anyway, when smashing 1/8" AN470 rivets I always like to have a partner so each person can use both hands and focus their attention on their own side. I think it makes for better quality riveting. 3) Maintain more force on the gun, keeping the set on that rivet until after it stops hammering. I find that if you release pressure even an instant too soon, you get smiles. So keep a good amount of force on it (thus all the clamping!) until it's silent, then pull the gun away. 4) Use more pressure. 3 to 4 seconds is kind of a long time to shoot, but your mileage may vary. My opinion is that it's almost easier and more controllable to have a quicker, more intense burst, rather than a long, drawn-out buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurst. So crank the PSI up to 80 or 90 and it should cut the time in half...but apply good force to that machine head and keep the set dead centered and plumb. Use your 2nd hand's fingertips to brace the set. 5) If all else fails, blame the bucker. 8-) Make sure the bucking bar is good and square. If it's not, it has the ability to knock *you* off center. At least that's what I've found and theorized. Also, use the heaviest bucking bar you've got, if possible. Hope this helps! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com> Subject: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting > of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the > factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the > rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to > make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much > attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. > I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this > better? > > Warren Hurd > 90454 Wings > http://www.ahyup.com > Mushroomed Rivets > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Stick hat switches
Date: Sep 28, 2003
You might want to give michael(at)kalama.com an email or call (360-274-6508...no web site that I've seen). He's the guy who makes Custom Stick Grips (teak wood). I believe he sells switches individually as well as gorgeous stick grips. http://www.rvproject.com/20030605.html (some pics of the stick grips) http://www.rvproject.com/20030611.html (some more pics here) )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com> Subject: RV-List: Stick hat switches > > Hi > > Does anybody know an alternate source for hat switches or cooly switches > like the one in the Ray Allen grips. > > Alternate to RAC that is..... > > looking for one for the back seater. > > > Gert > -- > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap
Elsa & Henry wrote: > > > >Just a couple of notes about fuel caps. The "plastic / fiber" spacer under > >the flipper has since been replaced by Van's with metal spacers. Both my > >platic ones failed pretty quickly, and I just made my own out of aluminum. > >Also, regarding the pins, a good drill bit shaft will last forever, those > >roll pins have a tendency to break. I carry a couple extras now just in > >case > > Hi Stein, > Yep, I was considering using a 1/16" or a #52-#53 drill-bit shaft, and I > would have had I not found suitable roll-pins. But then I mused that it took > a lot of torque to break-off the roll-pins and what would break if the stud > seizure happened again? Would the latch lever lands break instead of the > drill-bit shaft? Who knows? that's why I used the roll-pins. (for now) > Another alternative for pins is stainless welding rod. It is softer than the drill rod, yet still holds up fine in regular service. I carry a 6" length of the rod in the flight kit and have had one occasion to quickly fabricate a new cap pin. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 517 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Yikes. 80-90# is way high, IMO. I do better with lower pressure, closer to 30#, even for 1/8" rivets. They are done in 1.5 or 2 secs (Using an offset rivet set like you have pictured takes longer). I also try to keep everything exactly perpendicular or parallel to each other, nothing in between. That helps to get good shop heads and no smileys. - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 12:13 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > > > Here's my 2 cents: .... So crank the PSI up to 80 or > 90 and it should cut the time in half... > > Hope this helps! > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com> > To: ; "Matronics RV9 List" > > Subject: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > > > > > I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the > > riveting of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly > deformed some > > of the factory rivet heads. See them at > http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To > > make the rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would > take 3 to 4 > > seconds to make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was > paying much to > > much attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory > head. I also > > made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this better? > > > > Warren Hurd > > 90454 Wings > > http://www.ahyup.com > > Mushroomed Rivets ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
A couple more points. To drill out the bad rivets, I stole a technique from someone else: Drill off the factory head. Then, use a 3/32 drill to drill most of the way through, but being carefull to not go all the way through the rivet. Use a 3/32 punch in this hole to tap out the rivet. You might need to use a pair of Vice-Grips to help get the rivet off the punch after you've tapped it out. This should allow you to get the rivet out without doing any damage to the holes. As far as avoiding smilies on round head rivets, a local builder keyed me into using a small piece of hockey shin guard tape on the rivet set. It is a thick, soft, tough tape. It helps keep the rivet set from slipping off the rivet and it also keeps the rivet set from marking up the rivet. The factory rivets look absolutely pristine after they are driven. You might think about a 3X gun for 1/8 rivets, especially if that area of structure is very stiff. The gun has to flex the structure when you are driving the rivet, and I suspect areas of stiff structure might be harder to do with a 2X gun than with a 3X. A long straight rivet set would avoid the problems of that offset set turning, if the straight set will work in this area. That offset set gave me hard time too, and I also screwed up a few rivets when it turned on me. Taping it to the gun helps, but it didn't completely stop it from turning for me. Kevin Horton > >Here's my 2 cents: > >1) Stabilize the work as best you can. Clamp it down to the bench in >multiple places, block it with clamped/screwed down wood, etc. > >2) Use a partner. This ought to be #1, actually, but I think stabilization >might cure your issues. But anyway, when smashing 1/8" AN470 rivets I >always like to have a partner so each person can use both hands and focus >their attention on their own side. I think it makes for better quality >riveting. > >3) Maintain more force on the gun, keeping the set on that rivet until after >it stops hammering. I find that if you release pressure even an instant too >soon, you get smiles. So keep a good amount of force on it (thus all the >clamping!) until it's silent, then pull the gun away. > >4) Use more pressure. 3 to 4 seconds is kind of a long time to shoot, but >your mileage may vary. My opinion is that it's almost easier and more >controllable to have a quicker, more intense burst, rather than a long, >drawn-out buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurst. So crank the PSI up to 80 or 90 >and it should cut the time in half...but apply good force to that machine >head and keep the set dead centered and plumb. Use your 2nd hand's >fingertips to brace the set. > >5) If all else fails, blame the bucker. 8-) Make sure the bucking bar is >good and square. If it's not, it has the ability to knock *you* off center. >At least that's what I've found and theorized. Also, use the heaviest >bucking bar you've got, if possible. > >Hope this helps! >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com> >To: ; "Matronics RV9 List" >Subject: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > >> >> I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting >> of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the >> factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the >> rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to >> make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much >> attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. >> I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this >> better? >> >> Warren Hurd >> 90454 Wings >> http://www.ahyup.com >> Mushroomed Rivets > > >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Engine Preheaters For Sale
From: Martin Sobel <rv8vator(at)earthlink.net>
EAA Chapter 9 , Columbus Flight Watch , COSAnet All: I am moving soon to a new home where I will finally be able to start my RV-8. In the meantime, I have two brand new Red Dragon LT 2-12 MH200 propane pre-heaters for sale. New List for these items is $471.00. Will sell them for $250.00 each plus shipping. These pre-heaters may be seen at: http://www.flameengineering.com/Preheater_12voltDC.html Satisfaction guaranteed. Martin Sobel rv8vator(at)earthlink.net 740-548-5730 740-972-3243 (cell) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: DAHON Folding Bicycles for Sale
From: Martin Sobel <rv8vator(at)earthlink.net>
RV8 List , EAA Chapter 9 , Columbus Flight Watch , COSAnet All: In another life, I built bicycle assist engines under the trade name of Terratran Manufacturing. These engines were fitted to DAHON Folding Bicycles to make a neat 40 lb. motor scooter that would fit in most airplanes. I have several of these folders in my basement and since I am moving soon, I need to get rid of them. Most are 20" wheel bikes with 7 speed internal hubs (no derailleurs) with a disk brake that does not fade when wet. These bikes will make an excellent Christmas gift(s) for any pilot. I also have several 16" bikes including a rare stainless steel model. If any one wants a new DAHON Folder including the newest full size aluminum folders, I can make them available at very good prices. Martin Sobel rv8vator(at)earthlink.net 740-548-5730 740-972-3243 (cell) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Amendment: I overlooked that you are using a 2X. The numbers I referenced below I used for my 3X. - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Bowen [mailto:Larry(at)bowenaero.com] > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 1:22 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > > > Yikes. 80-90# is way high, IMO. I do better with lower pressure, > closer to 30#, even for 1/8" rivets. They are done in 1.5 or > 2 secs (Using an offset rivet set like you have pictured > takes longer). I also try to keep everything exactly > perpendicular or parallel to each other, nothing in between. > That helps to get good shop heads and no smileys. > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Dan Checkoway [mailto:dan(at)rvproject.com] > > Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2003 12:13 PM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > > > > > > > Here's my 2 cents: > .... So crank the PSI up to 80 or > > 90 and it should cut the time in half... > > > > Hope this helps! > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D > > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Warren W Hurd" <warren(at)ahyup.com> > > To: ; "Matronics RV9 List" > > > > Subject: RV-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets > > > > > > > > > > I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the > > > riveting of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly > > deformed some > > > of the factory rivet heads. See them at > > http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To > > > make the rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would > > take 3 to 4 > > > seconds to make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was > > paying much to > > > much attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory > > head. I also > > > made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make > this better? > > > > > > Warren Hurd > > > 90454 Wings > > > http://www.ahyup.com > > > Mushroomed Rivets > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Lock tabs on carb
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Folks, I responding to the comment about using lock tabs to fix the fasteners for the FAB adaptor plate to the carb. I believe one of our local guys recently had a portion of the lock tab get disgested by a cylinder. (I walked into that conversation mid stream so I may have misheard it) In any event I drilled heads and safetied these fasteners with ss wire and would recommend that as the only appropriate method for these bolts. I am also not very big on Vans use of nutplates and centering tabs inside of the air filter, and therefore consider these critical inspection items every 25 hours. Given the fact that the carb is moving and the end of the FAB is semi fixed to the cowl, the nutplates and fasteners in there are subject to a lot of activity. So far no signs of wear. W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Scuppers and Velcro
Date: Sep 28, 2003
RE RV-6 outlet, I have left mine long appx 1.25", then cut it even, then made it even but with an 11 deg flare outwards all the way around, then cut it 1" short at an angle, then tried an outlet airflow alignment baffle, then tried several simple inlet aligment baffles, and nothing changed in any of the attempts to either CHT or OT. But I had fun. ;{) My temps aren't terrible given that I live in the south west, but it would be nice to see them a few degrees lower. OT is normally 200, and CHT is 390-420 when playing around in a 85-95 deg day. But if I climb or slow flight for awhile they both start looking for red. My current experiment is to see what the temp difference is between the spark plug probe and the in head probe, then I am going to change the oil cooler inlet to a more tapered design rather than Vans folded box design. I believe it was Beech Aircraft who one time fixed an oil temp problem by moving the probe to a cooler location. Its kinda like these posts, if you don't like what you're reading than read something else. ;{) I guess Vans overall cooling design is to get just enough cooling so that drag is minimized. To bad he lives in the cool climes of Oregon. RE velcro, it also helps to not have any corners on stickum stuff. Cut them round so the sharp corners don't curl up. W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Corrosion inside a fuel tank cap
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Regarding the corrosion inside the fuel caps, this is apparently common. I took mine apart and cleaned them up. Prior to re-assembling them, I gobbered them up with EZ Turn (formerly called Fuel Lube). This stuff is really handy for many things, I even keep a little 35mm film canister in the plane with a little glob of it inside. Also good for holding washers/nuts etc. to one's finger for tough to assemble areas. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 375 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: DAHON Folding Bicycles for Sale
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Prices and shipping costs, Please Cy Galley - Bellanca Champion Club Newsletter Editor & EAA TC www.bellanca-championclub.com Actively supporting Aeroncas every day Quarterly newsletters on time Reasonable document reprints ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Sobel" <rv8vator(at)earthlink.net> List" ; "EAA Chapter 9" ; "Columbus Flight Watch" ; "COSAnet" Subject: RV-List: DAHON Folding Bicycles for Sale > > All: > > In another life, I built bicycle assist engines under the trade name of > Terratran Manufacturing. These engines were fitted to DAHON Folding Bicycles > to make a neat 40 lb. motor scooter that would fit in most airplanes. > > I have several of these folders in my basement and since I am moving soon, I > need to get rid of them. > > Most are 20" wheel bikes with 7 speed internal hubs (no derailleurs) with a > disk brake that does not fade when wet. > > These bikes will make an excellent Christmas gift(s) for any pilot. > > I also have several 16" bikes including a rare stainless steel model. > > If any one wants a new DAHON Folder including the newest full size aluminum > folders, I can make them available at very good prices. > > Martin Sobel > rv8vator(at)earthlink.net > 740-548-5730 > 740-972-3243 (cell) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hassel" <bob@hassel-usa.com>
Subject: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Ah once again a very good thread. It's interesting to hear what techniques work for different folks. First off for reference I use a 2x Sioux generally 40 - 60 pounds depending what I'm doing (with a 25' hose). I prefer the offset shank to the straight one. I don't get smilies on the large rivets with the offset but for some reason with the straight shank I do. I was surprised to run in to other folks that had the same experience including one of our local guru's and DAR. Of course this is Texas so our shanks tend to be bigger.... (I'm ducking). Also I use a pin vice when drilling out bad rivets. This can be picked up at most hobby shops and is basically a small shank like tool used to hold a drill bit. I use a real small bit, center it and turn it by hand. Then I go to a larger bit. This allows me to get the starter holes in the center of what I perceive the is the shaft of the rivet. After that a few pops with my Sioux drill and it's out. Bob Hassel RV9A on hold / RV10 soon! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 28, 2003
>A long straight rivet set would avoid the problems of that offset set >turning, if the straight set will work in this area. That offset set >gave me hard time too, and I also screwed up a few rivets when it >turned on me. Taping it to the gun helps, but it didn't completely >stop it from turning for me. I have just submitted a couple of photos to the Matronics Photo Share of my double off-set rivet set holder that secures the set firmly in the gun so that it does NOT rotate. One of these days I will submit Photos of a variety of tools which I home-made in 1995 when I was waiting for my kits to be delivered: C-Frame Pneumatic cleco installer / remover Edge roller Cut-off wheel holder Squeezer anvils for crimping #4 & #8 terminals Plus others I can't think of at the moment Cheers!! Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Gear Leg Stiffeners
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Well today I installed the wood gear leg stiffeners. I know, from reading the archives, that many builders are happy/surprised that not putting in the wood stiffeners has not resulted in shimmies and was not needed. I thought through the process of doing it and not. I thought that not doing it and having a shimmy would not be good for my co-pilot 's (wife) peace of mind. So,,, I went to the local aviation dept of Lowes and bought a 10' length of molding. Cost $7.69. I used my Mother-in-Laws radial arm saw and cut the molding per plans and glued it together with some Sears wood glue. Next day I hued and sanded it down and mixed up some epoxy with flux to get a consistency of runny peanut butter. I poured the mixture slowly into the grooved angle of the two wood anti-shimmy legs and taped it tightly on the aft side of the gear leg (after cleaning with a piece of scotch brite). Watched it ever hour or so for any leakage. Let it cure overnight. Next day I fitted the completed gear leg fairing and aligned according to plans with the legs off the ground. I had to sand the wood stiffener just a bit to get the fairing to fit without a conflict with the stiffener. Then I removed the faring and wrapped the wood stiffener with 3" fiberglass tape to get three overlapping layers and epoxied each layer well and covered with peal ply tape and the next day it was ready. Final sanded it just a bit to get rid of a couple of rough edges. The fairing fits over it like a glove. Is the wood stiffener needed? I will never know. But if I hadn't taken this step and had a shimmy problem after completing the plane, I am sure it would be way more than 6 hours or effort and discomfort for me. AND did I mention: My co-pilot's/passenger's peace of mind will not be challenged. Weight? I'd say the whole thing is probably 6 oz or less, $7.69, and about 6 hours. I will sleep tonight knowing it is under that leg fairing, out of sight. I know -- and for me -- that is important. My suggestion to you? Answering that is too easy -- You decide for yourself. ( But I say: what is 6 hours and 6 oz. considering the whole project? ) Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak On Finish Kit and fire wall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Fwd: FW: Message *Not* Posted to RV-List...
List: Posting for a fellow RV-8A owner. Please contact Wayne direct. > Complete Vacuum System: Sigma Tek TSOd DG and AI 8 tilt; Rapco pump with > full install kit, gauge and shroud; flown 90hrs, changing to EFIS; $1200. > rwayne(at)adelphia.net, 434-797-3919. > From: "Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> Subject: FW: Message *Not* Posted to RV-List... Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:40:10 -0400 I thought you had to be a member to post. Could you do it? Or, tell me how to join? Thanks. (The message is at the very bottom of all this stuff.) Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Matronics Email Bounce Service [mailto:bounces(at)matronics.com] Subject: Message *Not* Posted to RV-List... -- -- "Poster: "Wayne Williams" " -- "Subject: vacuum system for sale" -- -- The message below was not posted to the RV-List because the -- poster is not a member of any Email List on the Matronics Email System. -- -- Note that this check can be triggered in some cases where your -- your message's From: address isn't an *exact* match to the email -- address that is subscribed. An example of this might be where -- you are subscribed to a List as: -- -- "joe(at)internet.com" -- -- but your email message's From: line shows your address as: -- -- "joe(at)email.internet.com" -- -- While these may be functionally the same email address, there is -- no way for the receiving email system to determine that they are -- in fact actually the same address. -- -- If this has occured to you while posting a message to a List here at -- Matronics, please either change your email application's configuration -- so that your From: line matches the email address you have subscribed -- as, or go to the Subscription Web Site and unsubscribe your old email -- address an subscribe your actual email address. The Matronics Email -- List Subscription Web Page can be found at: -- -- http://www.matronics.com/subscribe -- -- Thank you for your interest in these Email Lists, -- -- Matt Dralle -- Matronics Email List Administrator -- dralle(at)matronics.com -- -- >------------------- > > > From rwayne(at)gamewood.net Sat Sep 27 14:02:41 2003 > Received: from barracuda.matronics.com (barracuda.matronics.com [66.92.24.21]) > by matronics.com (8.11.6/8.11.0/Rbl-Orbs-Dul) with ESMTP id h8RL2fH20482 > Received: from mta1.adelphia.net (mta1.adelphia.net [68.168.78.175]) > by barracuda.matronics.com (Barracuda Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 130BC200008B > Received: from williams ([67.21.150.2]) by mta1.adelphia.net > (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with SMTP > From: "Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> > To: > Subject: vacuum system for sale > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:03:02 -0400 > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) > Importance: Normal > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > X-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Networks Anti-Spam/Anti-virus Gateway at matronics.com > > Something important for RV builders: > > Complete Vacuum System: Sigma Tek TSOd DG and AI 8 tilt; Rapco pump with > full install kit, gauge and shroud; flown 90hrs, changing to EFIS; $1200. rwayne(at)adelphia.net, 434-797-3919. > > >------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Vacumn Pump for Sale
> Complete Vacuum System: Sigma Tek TSOd DG and AI 8 tilt; Rapco pump with > full install kit, gauge and shroud; flown 90hrs, changing to EFIS; $1200. > rwayne(at)adelphia.net, 434-797-3919. > From: "Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> Subject: FW: Message *Not* Posted to RV-List... Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 21:40:10 -0400 I thought you had to be a member to post. Could you do it? Or, tell me how to join? Thanks. (The message is at the very bottom of all this stuff.) Wayne -----Original Message----- From: Matronics Email Bounce Service [mailto:bounces(at)matronics.com] Subject: Message *Not* Posted to RV-List... -- -- "Poster: "Wayne Williams" " -- "Subject: vacuum system for sale" -- -- The message below was not posted to the RV-List because the -- poster is not a member of any Email List on the Matronics Email System. -- -- Note that this check can be triggered in some cases where your -- your message's From: address isn't an *exact* match to the email -- address that is subscribed. An example of this might be where -- you are subscribed to a List as: -- -- "joe(at)internet.com" -- -- but your email message's From: line shows your address as: -- -- "joe(at)email.internet.com" -- -- While these may be functionally the same email address, there is -- no way for the receiving email system to determine that they are -- in fact actually the same address. -- -- If this has occured to you while posting a message to a List here at -- Matronics, please either change your email application's configuration -- so that your From: line matches the email address you have subscribed -- as, or go to the Subscription Web Site and unsubscribe your old email -- address an subscribe your actual email address. The Matronics Email -- List Subscription Web Page can be found at: -- -- http://www.matronics.com/subscribe -- -- Thank you for your interest in these Email Lists, -- -- Matt Dralle -- Matronics Email List Administrator -- dralle(at)matronics.com -- -- >------------------- > > > From rwayne(at)gamewood.net Sat Sep 27 14:02:41 2003 > Received: from barracuda.matronics.com (barracuda.matronics.com [66.92.24.21]) > by matronics.com (8.11.6/8.11.0/Rbl-Orbs-Dul) with ESMTP id h8RL2fH20482 > Received: from mta1.adelphia.net (mta1.adelphia.net [68.168.78.175]) > by barracuda.matronics.com (Barracuda Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 130BC200008B > Received: from williams ([67.21.150.2]) by mta1.adelphia.net > (InterMail vM.5.01.05.32 201-253-122-126-132-20030307) with SMTP > From: "Wayne Williams" <rwayne(at)gamewood.net> > To: > Subject: vacuum system for sale > Date: Sat, 27 Sep 2003 17:03:02 -0400 > Message-ID: > MIME-Version: 1.0 > X-MSMail-Priority: Normal > X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) > Importance: Normal > X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 > X-Virus-Scanned: by Barracuda Networks Anti-Spam/Anti-virus Gateway at matronics.com > > Something important for RV builders: > > Complete Vacuum System: Sigma Tek TSOd DG and AI 8 tilt; Rapco pump with > full install kit, gauge and shroud; flown 90hrs, changing to EFIS; $1200. rwayne(at)adelphia.net, 434-797-3919. > > >------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: Rv list Hartzell Prop
From: smoothweasel(at)juno.com
Does anyone out there know what the combination of stud,washer,nut and locking arrangement is used when mounting a Hartzell to a O-320 B3B? Also I have one aluminum 12 in. spinner and a 12 in. fiberglass spinner that I would like to sell/trade for a 13 in. Joel "Weasel" Graber RV-4 Finishing Brooksville Ms ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Putting an Epoxy Primer over Van's Wash Primer used on QB kits
I have a RV8A QB Kit and plan to spray the Cockpit Area with Sterling U1201G (2 part epoxy primer, green in color - which I have used before). This Primer (MIL-P_ 223377G) is tough as nails. It is perfect for a "high wear area", such as a cockpit, and then plan to spray over it with grey Tempo Epoxy Propeller Paint for the finish grey color coat. Propeller paint is tough too. I have some test samples of this sitting on my roof aging in the weather, since April 03. How have you Builders prepared the Wash Primer, that Van's uses on their QB Kits, prior to putting a Primer or Paint over it? 1) Clean off with Denatured Alcohol, then paint? 2) Lightly scuff using Red Scotchbrite Pads, then clean with Denatured Alcohol, then paint ? What worked for you and how did your process "wear with time" ? FYI according to MIL Specs on Wash Primers, they do NOT provide corrosion protection unless top coated with a "real" primer or paint. Thanks, Garey Santa Monica, CA __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Subject: [ Henry Hore ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Henry Hore <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com> Subject: Rivet-gun double off-set holder for one hand operation. http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com.09.28.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Gear Leg Stiffeners
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Hi Larry, Not certain which Model RV you have, but will tell you a tale about the stiffeners that has nothing to do with shimmy. I once had to make a panic stop after aborting a take off (was around 10-20' in the air and around 80mph taking off from a 2300 ft runway). I had many times rehershed in my mind what I would do should I ever face the need to abort at various stages in the take off. My guideline was and is I would rather go off the end of the runway doing 30 MPH than find myself airborn with less viable options. I know others may disagree and that fine. Anyhow, within a second of the problem occuring, I was committed to putting the bird back on the ground, but that I knew I needed ever inch of remaining runway to get stopped - if that were even possible. So I dove for the runway and planted my bird on that runway hard, firmly pushing the stick forward as I touched down to keep it there (fortunately did not bounce). I slammed down 300 ft (measured) from the end of the runway (Boy! was the end of that runway coming up like an express train). Immediately got on the binders - HARD!. Fortunately had a nose wheel and the stiffeners on the main gear. Stopped 12 ft off the end of the runway in the mowed grass with no damage to aircraft or self (well, seat cushion, underwear, heart rate, nerves,etc were a bit perturbed). After getting my legs steady enough to get out. I went back and looked at my touch down point and followed the twin trails of black rubber from that point to the end of the runway. There were no skips or hops or skid marks (wheels locked) just two solid lines of that soft rubber compound that ate into that tramac and slowed me from (must have been close to 75-80MPH on touchdown) to zero in 312 ft. I am absolutely convinced that if I had not had the wood stiffeners on my gear that the force of the panic braking would have sprung those steel rods backwards, until their spring action would have popped the wheels forward, then back, then forward, etc. I am certain I would have survived the abort but the aircraft would have probably ended up in the gully at that end of the runway and a series of skipping wheel marks. So, the stiffeners may not be needed 99.99999.... % of the time, but just once is enough. FWIW Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> Subject: RV-List: Gear Leg Stiffeners > > Well today I installed the wood gear leg stiffeners. I know, from reading > the archives, that many builders are happy/surprised that not putting in the > wood stiffeners has not resulted in shimmies and was not needed. > > I thought through the process of doing it and not. I thought that not doing > it and having a shimmy would not be good for my co-pilot 's (wife) peace of > mind. So,,, I went to the local aviation dept of Lowes and bought a 10' > length of molding. Cost $7.69. I used my Mother-in-Laws radial arm saw and > cut the molding per plans and glued it together with some Sears wood glue. > Next day I hued and sanded it down and mixed up some epoxy with flux to get > a consistency of runny peanut butter. I poured the mixture slowly into the > grooved angle of the two wood anti-shimmy legs and taped it tightly on the > aft side of the gear leg (after cleaning with a piece of scotch brite). > Watched it ever hour or so for any leakage. Let it cure overnight. Next > day I fitted the completed gear leg fairing and aligned according to plans > with the legs off the ground. I had to sand the wood stiffener just a bit > to get the fairing to fit without a conflict with the stiffener. Then I > removed the faring and wrapped the wood stiffener with 3" fiberglass tape to > get three overlapping layers and epoxied each layer well and covered with > peal ply tape and the next day it was ready. Final sanded it just a bit to > get rid of a couple of rough edges. The fairing fits over it like a glove. > > Is the wood stiffener needed? I will never know. But if I hadn't taken > this step and had a shimmy problem after completing the plane, I am sure it > would be way more than 6 hours or effort and discomfort for me. AND did I > mention: My co-pilot's/passenger's peace of mind will not be challenged. > > Weight? I'd say the whole thing is probably 6 oz or less, $7.69, and about > 6 hours. I will sleep tonight knowing it is under that leg fairing, out of > sight. I know -- and for me -- that is important. > > My suggestion to you? Answering that is too easy -- You decide for > yourself. ( But I say: what is 6 hours and 6 oz. considering the whole > project? ) > > Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak > On Finish Kit and fire wall forward > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "aronsond" <aronsond(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: DAHON Folding Bicycles for Sale
Date: Sep 28, 2003
Martin: Where can I go to see what they look like? DCa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Martin Sobel" <rv8vator(at)earthlink.net> List" ; "EAA Chapter 9" ; "Columbus Flight Watch" ; "COSAnet" Subject: RV-List: DAHON Folding Bicycles for Sale > > All: > > In another life, I built bicycle assist engines under the trade name of > Terratran Manufacturing. These engines were fitted to DAHON Folding Bicycles > to make a neat 40 lb. motor scooter that would fit in most airplanes. > > I have several of these folders in my basement and since I am moving soon, I > need to get rid of them. > > Most are 20" wheel bikes with 7 speed internal hubs (no derailleurs) with a > disk brake that does not fade when wet. > > These bikes will make an excellent Christmas gift(s) for any pilot. > > I also have several 16" bikes including a rare stainless steel model. > > If any one wants a new DAHON Folder including the newest full size aluminum > folders, I can make them available at very good prices. > > Martin Sobel > rv8vator(at)earthlink.net > 740-548-5730 > 740-972-3243 (cell) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 28, 2003
From: Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
I guess I missed early postings on builders establishing individual limitations. Too busy sniffing lacquer thinner or bucking rivets without ear muffs. Somehow I presumed experimental aircraft builders/manufacturers had to design AND test the plane to establish limits. I guess that's one freedom of the experimental world. Also we are only talking about adding 10% to Van's "recommended" gross weight. Are builders documenting the aforementioned considerations and procedures in thier flight manual for these type loadings for those who might pilot the aircraft? Or am I showing my big airplane/conservative slant again? Thanks for all the informative responses. All the info from the list has definitely leveraged my building progress, one of these days I will be flying... (at my gross weight!) Aloha. Greg Paul Besing wrote: CG is more of an issue than weight with this airplane (unless you are talking about pulling more g's) . My 6A weight and balance is listed as 1750 pounds gross. The weight and balance is claimed by the builder, not the kit manufacturer. Van's has listed 1650 as what old blue was set at. On the record van's will tell you that you *should* set your max gross at 1650. Off the record, they will tell you that 1800 is fine, just watch the CG as you burn fuel. I've been loaded to 1700 wihout a problem. Just have to watch the fuel burn. I landed with alot of fuel burned and it required alot of power on landing to keep her level. As long as the pilot ensures that all turns are shallow, no aerobatics, no abrupt maneuvers, etc, this airplane will fly fine at 1800. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Greg Grigson" Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A > > Doug, > What engineering design changes did you make to Van's standard RV 6A aircraft to permit a gross weight of 1800 lbs? The RV 6A has been designed and tested to certain load limitations by the kit manufacturer (my RV 6A manual states maximum gross weight as 1650 lbs). Any alteration of these limitations would require certain design changes and possibly flight testing. To forgo such a process is not prudent in my opinion. I hope I have mistakenly misinterpreted your posting, if so I apologize in advance. > > Safe Flying! > Aloha > Greg Grigson > > dmedema(at)att.net wrote: > > I recently weighed my plane both level and in the > normal on-ground attitude. The results were very > interesting to me so I thought I would share them. > I originally weighed it in the normal on-ground > attitude thinking I could convert it to level values > using some trig. It turns out you need to know the > exact height of the real center-of-gravity to do > this calculation. I made an estimate based on the > W&B drawings from Van's but didn't feel comfortable > with it. I built some ramps to get it level and > re-weighed it to get it right. Here are the results > > On-ground Level > Nose tire: 236 272 > Right tire: 396 377 > Left tire: 394 378 > > The total weight was only 1 pound different which I > consider a good sign of repeatability for the scales. > The empty weight c.g. for the on-ground numbers > is 70.45 inches while for level, it is 68.51. > I'm putting my airplane's gross at 1800 which will > allow me to have two 225lb. people, full fuel, and > over 90 pounds of baggage and still stay in proper > c.g. range and gross weight. C.G. is still ok after > all the fuel is used in this scenario. > > I was quite surprised that lifting the main gear > approximately 4 inches transferred 36 more pounds > onto the front gear. For reference, the plane is > unpainted with minimal interior. It has an 0-320-E2D > with standard starter, Van's 35 amp alternator, an > Odyssey battery just in front of the firewall, and > a fixed pitch Sensenich prop. > > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM ready for inspection! > > > --------------------------------- > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: velcro peeling off
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
SNIP I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back and seat base, with the other half sewn into the fabric cusion. Problem is, I've yet to find a glue that's stronger then the velcro. Any time I need to remove the cusion, the glued velcro strip comes along with it. I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. Any other ideas? Andy SNIP Yes, there is a better way. Put a narrow strip on the seat cushion, say 1" wide, sewn on of course. Then put a wider width, say 2" or wider if you can find it, on the seat back. The wider strip will resist pulling loose much better. If you can't do that, simply put the strip on the seat back PERPENDICULAR to the strip on the cushion. And don't use cheap velcro! You can get heavy duty stuff in various widths at Walmart in the fabric dep't. Not just a hat rack.... Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Gesele" <tgesele(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Painting problems
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Listers, I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it. Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and starting over again) Thanks in advance for any advice. Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Painting problems
How old was the hardner (You did use hardner, right)? Some have a 2 week shelf life after first opening. > >Listers, > > I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint >ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it >takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and >let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it. > > Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or >can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and >starting over again) > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > >Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit) > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You guys have any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Painting problems
Date: Sep 29, 2003
> > > >Listers, > > > > I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint > >ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it > >takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and > >let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it. > > > > Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or > >can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and > >starting over again) > > > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > > > >Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit) Ed Anderson had a painter who forgot the hardner (on the *whole plane*). It took a couple of months but the paint did finally cure. Time cures all ills? Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Painting problems
Tom, It sounds like you didn't use enough hardener in the Imron. It's a 2 part paint and MUST have the correct amount of catalyst. Dave Tom Gesele wrote: > >Listers, > > I've run into a little problem while painting my canopy frame. The paint >ended up real soft, to the point where anything that rubs up against it >takes the paint off down to the bare metal. I used Imron over veri-prime and >let the paint set up a full week before I even touched it. > > Does anyone out there have any ideas on what may have caused this and/or >can suggest a possible fix (other than stripping the whole thing down and >starting over again) > > Thanks in advance for any advice. > >Tom Gesele (RV-6 finishi kit) > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: New RV Flying
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Jim, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "rv-list(at)matronics.com" (Receipt Notification >Requested) >Subject: RV-List: New RV Flying >Date: Fri, 26 Sep 2003 17:07:18 -0400 (EDT) > > > >Just wanted to let everyone know - kit # 81610, an RV-8A (N627TT), is >now flying. 180 hp. Aero Sport Power, carb, Sensenich fixed pitch 85", >full interior, day/night VFR, 1107 lbs. >A lot of thanks to John Crabtree, Vince Frazier, and Steve Steckler for all >their help, and especially John's "engineering s*** ". >Special thanks to my most patient and loveable wife, Terri, who, by the >way, designed the paint scheme and the interior, and installed the >interior. >Flys GREAT! Only 8 hours so far - can't wait to get some more stick >time! > > http://msnmessenger-download.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Painting Web site, forums, educational data and professional
supplies Long post www.autobodystore.com A great site to learn (or relearn) painting basics and purchase professional supplies. I purchased my Devilbiss Plus Gravity gun from them at 150$ off list. The paint gun was selected based on conversations with Len Stewart, owner/operator of the online shop. Len will answer questions and generally help you with your paint needs. I found the counter folks at the jobber stores less then helpfull, lacking in product familarity and generally lacking in the painting knowledge in general. I only buy the paint from them now and rely on the data I got from the forums. Here is the section on "Painting Basics" from Len's web site...... Being HVLP and low VOC products are the way the industrys going I will be referring to them in this discussion on painting and paint guns. Most all basic issues dealing with HVLP can be applied to conventional guns, atomization is atomization. The HVLP just arrives at it differently. The object of the spray gun is to break up the primer/sealer/paint/clear (I will call this PSPC from here out) into small particles and lay them in neat little rows on the panel being PSPRed. So the whole outcome rests on how well the gun is doing this. Picture the droplets of PSPC coming out of the fluid tip of the gun and then the air slapping them into smaller droplets. You have two things that help you with this process, air and solvent. Solvent can mean something that is already in the PSPR from the manufacture or something the manufacture has told you to add to it. By the way, you should always mix in proper ratios as instructed in the tech sheet. The thinner (less viscosity) you get the PSPR or the more air you have at the fluid tip of the gun the more it will break up the PSPR. The target for you is getting the perfect balance needed. Too much solvent and the PSPR will have no body, fill, durability, etc. Too much air and you blow the PSPR everywhere but the car, poor adhesion, excessive texture, etc. So, the answer is proper air supply and gun (and fluid tip) choice and how you adjust it. With todays high solids-low VOC (Volatile Organic Compound, you know the bad stuff that goes up into the air we breathe) products there is less solvent. And with HVLP guns there is less air at the cap to break up the PSPC, proper air supply and gun setup is more important than ever. FIRST THINGS FIRST, your compressor and air supply. An HVLP gun requires more VOLUME of air to operate (the V in HVLP, High Volume Low Pressure). Now you may notice that your HVLP gun is adjusted at maybe the same PSI as an old conventional gun, around 50 lbs at the gun (many HVLP guns are set at much lower though) so where is the Low in PSI they are talking about? It is at the actual air cap where the air and paint come out. An HVLP gun has only 10 lbs at the cap while a conventional has upwards of 50! So the VOLUME of air (CFM, Cubic Feet per Minute) is the key to proper atomization with an HVLP. If you have a gun that requires 15 CFM you will need a compressor and plumbing that will produce that at a very minimum. There are HVLP guns that need as little as 7.5 CFM so you can get good results even from a smaller compressor. Air supply is a complete subject by its self so lets assume that you have the air supply needed and move on to gun set up. So atomization is the key, but why? Why cant you just lay it out wet and let it flow, as an old painter will say. Picture a jar full of bbs, they will represent well small, atomized droplets of PSPC. The gaps in between the bbs is solvent. Now picture a jar filled with marbles, they will represent large, poorly atomized droplets of PSPC. The gaps in between are, you guessed it, solvent. If you apply your PSPC in large poorly atomized droplets, what you will have is a film full of solvent. This can and will cause slow curing, shrinkage and dieback (the loss of gloss in the hours and days after application). So, now that we have learned the need for gun set up, how do we do it? Lets start with the fluid tip choice. The newer high solids low VOC PSPC products need to be broken up more, so a smaller fluid tip is needed. Basically you want the smallest fluid tip that will still allow you to PSPC the particular part you are PSPCing keeping the entire thing wet and in a fair amount of time. In other words a 1.0 tip would be beautiful for clearing one fender, but would be lousy to paint a complete. The application would be way to slow and the first panel would be way to flashed by the time you got around back to it. So you need to compromise, a 1.3 is a great all around tip, while a 1.5 though getting a little big, can get you by. If you read the tech sheet on the particular product you are shooting, it will have a recommendation for fluid tip size. There are needs for other tips, for instance when shooting polyester primer you may need as big as a 2.3, but for urethanes and epoxies, the 1.3 or 1.4 will work great. If you plan on using a pressure pot or paint a bus, all bets are off and we would need to study a little bit more. As an example of the use of a 1.3 tip I did a test once that proved the point well. I shot two panels of metal with a med solids urethane primer. One was shot with a 1.3 super high atomizing top of the line topcoat gun. The other was shot with a 1.5 (or a 1.7 I cant remember) hoser primer gun. Three coats were applied and after a full cure (the one shot with the larger gun took MUCH longer to flash and cure by the way) the film thickness was measured. The one shot with the 1.3 tip was 2 tenths of a MIL thicker! The larger gun laid out the marble sized droplets full of solvent and when the solvent flashed the film shrank. Air supply is a subject that could fill many pages by its self. So we are going to assume you have that covered and move on to gun set up. You need to tune your gun EVERY TIME you use it just as you would tune a guitar before you perform. This is done with a very basic spray out pattern test. This very basic test tells you how your gun is atomizing and you adjust it to achieve the best atomization you can. Lets do a spray pattern test: Set the fan width as need (you dont want to change it after you have tuned the gun). Turn out the material knob about 2 turns. This is the mixture adjustment, kind of like the idle screw on a carburetor. The farther in it is screwed the lower the fluid to air ratio is and the smaller the droplets will be. The farther out it is, the higher the fluid to air ratio is and the larger the droplets. Set the air pressure at the inlet to the gun to the manufactures specs. On an HVLP gun this spec is usually found on the gun and is the maximum PSI it can have while still maintaining the maximum 10 lb at the cap for legal HVLP transfer efficiency (68 %). You are now ready to do a test spray out. Tape a piece of masking paper on the wall for the test. Hold the gun at a right angle to the wall, just as if you were going the wall. Hold the gun at a spread out hands distance (about 8 or 22cm). Pull the trigger to completely open for a split second and then close it. You want an ON-OFF wide open-completely closed in ONE movement. You should have a cigar shaped pattern with complete coverage in the center with fading coverage going away from the full coverage cigar shape in the center. The center should be fully covered without any runs. If you have runs, either you are holding the trigger too long, you are too close or the gun is simply applying too much material. In which case you need to screw in the material knob or turn the air pressure down. But most likely if you have turned the material knob out the 2 turns and the air is set at the factory specs, you are just too close or holding the trigger open too long. The droplets you see trailing off the center are what you will use to tune your gun. Turn in the material knob to make the droplets smaller (and or raise the air pressure). The balance you need to attain is the smallest droplet size possible before you loose the coverage desired. In other words if you turn in the material knob too far, not enough material will be coming out to cover the panel! Now, youll notice that I said, raise the pressure to the gun, while earlier I said to set it to manufactures specs. We are talking a very small adjustment. It is a fine balance in material to air ratio and a little more air than specified is okay. Even if it is an HVLP gun the inlet pressure recommended is to maintain the 10 lb limit at the cap. Well, about three quarters of the country has no regulations for HVLP use so if you go over the 10 lbs all it will do is atomize the material a little better. You may loose a little of the benefits of HVLP though. But remember you have a lot of control with the material adjustment knob. After you are happy with the droplet size, DONT TOUCH THE FAN CONTROL. It will change the PSI at the cap and will change the atomization you worked hard to get. Do this spray out every time you spray as material change, temp, and humidity will necessitate a spray out droplet pattern test. Good luck! Check out this URL to see an example of a sprayout pattern. http://members.aol.com/icantunderstand/hvlpdropletpatterns.jpg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)attcanada.ca>
Subject: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 29, 2003
I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this better? Warren Hurd MIL-R-47196A(MI) ( MILITARY SPECIFICATION) Shows that the head is OK if 1.4 times the diameter of the shaft is good. By the looks of some of your rivets you may have used the wrong size rivet set (too small) GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman(at)attcanada.ca ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Hobert" <terhobey(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Warren, I had the same problem, I got all the ribs riveted to the main spar and when I looked under at them I almost sh....... well you know. This was the right wing too, I had already done the left wing and for some (luck of the draw, I guess) reason they all turned out OK. Anyway, I ended up drilling out over 18 rivets! I read the advise on a lot of sights and then found that duct taping up my rivet set and paying attention to the factory head more did the trick. Live an learn I guess it is all part of the journey. Terry Hobert 90680 - building fuel tanks. >From: Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> >Reply-To: rv9-list(at)matronics.com >To: "rv-list(at)matronics.com" , Matronics RV9 List > >Subject: RV9-List: Bad wing rib to spar rivets >Date: Sun, 28 Sep 2003 03:42:05 -0400 > >--> RV9-List message posted by: Warren W Hurd > >I have been happy with most of my rivets until now. During the riveting >of the wing ribs to the main wing spar I badly deformed some of the >factory rivet heads. See them at http://www.ahyup.com/Rivet/ To make the >rivets I used a 2X gun at about 60 psi. It would take 3 to 4 seconds to >make the shop head to my satisfaction. I was paying much to much >attention to the shop head and ignoring the factory head. >I also made some smileys in the ribs. What should I do to make this >better? > >Warren Hurd >90454 Wings >http://www.ahyup.com >Mushroomed Rivets > > Help protect your PC. Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: seats fabrics..
A comment on seat fabrics. I don't know how everyone else gets into an RV6, but I end up stepping right in the middle of the seat before I am able to lower myself into the seat itself. After a time this makes the fabric dirty/dingy. Depending on how you enter and exit the aircraft, you might consider this on the color and type of seat covering you use. I have tired to find a good heavy canvass, OD in color. Neat thing about OD, the dirtier it gets the better it looks. When I ordered my seats from D.J. she laughed at me and told me canvass was not an approved covering as it was not very flame proof. Somebody should have told all those Guys with the Right Stuff at Edwards AFB during the 60's, as I recall the XF107 had a canvass seat laced to a tubular frame! So I have very nice dirty seats that are flame retardant. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
This is an very interesting topic. If the RV6 will carry 1800 pounds, what about 1850? Just what is the real gross weight. I hope Van did some sort of engineering analysis on the airframe, and just didn't throw darts to determine the gross weight! This leads to the question, just what is gross weight anyway (and I don't just mean the FAR defination)? Perhaps gross weight is not an engineering term, but it has something to do with the ability of potential pilots? Bob RV6 NightFighter >On the record van's will tell you that you *should* set your max gross at >1650. Off the record, they will tell you that 1800 is fine, just watch the >CG as you burn fuel. I've been loaded to 1700 wihout a problem. Just have >to watch the fuel burn. I landed with alot of fuel burned and it required >alot of power on landing to keep her level. As long as the pilot ensures >that all turns are shallow, no aerobatics, no abrupt maneuvers, etc, this >airplane will fly fine at 1800. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WMPALM(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Geoff, After working several years part-time on a Velocity kit, I sold the kit about 50% complete and bought an RV-8A QB kit. It was a very good decision for many reasons. The main reason, though, was that I simply could not build the Velocity with my work schedule. What I learned is that fiberglass kits must generally be built in 8-to-12-hour increments due to lay-up and cure/monitoring time. If you're retired and can work full-time on your kit, this is probably okay. If not, I would recommend sticking with an aluminum or steel and fabric kit. You can work on aluminum a few hours every day or evening and then quit. If you quit early on a fiberglass layup, you could have a nasty surprise when you check it later! I know! A little story: Ten years ago, when I first approached my wife about building an airplane, I told her that I would like to build an RV-6A. She said, "How many seats does it have?" I said, "2." She said, "Wrong Answer." (We had 2 children still at home.) Now that the kids are on their own, we're happily building an RV-8A! If you need 4 seats, build an RV-10! One other note: If you look at RVs from a performance, safety, builder support, and almost any other objective measure, they almost always beat the heck out of a Cozy or a Velocity. My personal opinion is that you've really got to like the "spaceship" looks of the pushers to justify building them. Good Luck with Your Decision! Bill Palmer ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: attaching seats
Date: Sep 29, 2003
McMaster Carr Hardware has a lot of interesting types of hook and loop, including sone super adhesive nylon and marine grade hook and loop that should work nicely. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> Subject: RV-List: attaching seats > > Speaking of seats, how does everybody attach the seat cusions to the seat > frames. > > I tried gluing a half strip of velcro to the metal seat back and seat base, > with the other half sewn into the fabric cusion. Problem is, I've yet to > find a glue that's stronger then the velcro. Any time I need to remove the > cusion, the glued velcro strip comes along with it. > > I suppose I could rivet the velcro strip to the seat back. Any other ideas? > > Andy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Good question. I just know that the limits can be exceeded. How much, who knows. I know Van would not just throw darts to determine GW, but what I am sure he has done is built in a fudge factor for those who push the limits, just to keep it from falling out of the sky. If he recommended the weight at 1800, someone would go 1900, and so on. I have heard many mention that this airplane is over engineered in many ways for this reason exactly. Van's has told me not to worry about certain things due to the fact that the plane is over engineered to allow for let's say, poor building habits. I think most airplanes are this way. They can't set all the limts at the *real* limits, or we would have alot more accidents due to accidental (or intentional) acts of exceeding limits. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <panamared2(at)brier.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A > > This is an very interesting topic. If the RV6 will carry 1800 pounds, what > about 1850? Just what is the real gross weight. I hope Van did some sort > of engineering analysis on the airframe, and just didn't throw darts to > determine the gross weight! This leads to the question, just what is gross > weight anyway (and I don't just mean the FAR defination)? Perhaps gross > weight is not an engineering term, but it has something to do with the > ability of potential pilots? > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: governor hose hole in front baffle
Date: Sep 29, 2003
On my RV-7/IO-360-A1B6, the governor hose OD is 1" including the firesleeve. I'm curious what the best way to protect this hose is, as it passes down through the front baffle floor. Grommet? RTV? The reason I'm even asking about this, rather than just simply using a grommet, is that the location of the hole kind of straddles the edge of the baffle bracket (part #16 in my kit) and the .063" doubler. The issue is that the grommet would have to accommodate varying thickness...in some areas baffle+doubler+bracket, baffle+doubler, and just baffle. The range is basically .032 to .125, so I'm not sure if a grommet is best suited for this. Here's a photo of the front baffle, showing the location of the hole-to-be...the clecoed hole is a good centering candidate: http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_to_be.jpg And here's a photo up from underneath, showing roughly how the hole will straddle the edges of various thicknesses: http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_beneath.jpg If I were to drill the hole exactly 1", I believe the firesleeved hose would have a snug fit. But I can't imagine that letting the firesleeve chafe against the hole would be kosher. What's the best way to protect the hose in this case? Thanks in advance, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: [new builder] Dimpling..
In a message dated 9/29/03 10:11:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, radomirz(at)vitez.net writes: << I suspect I wasn't holding the skin perfectly flat). >> That is most likely your problem, but move on, when you set the rivets the rivet head will form the dimple "to fit". Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Lets say there is a incident with some damage. A insurance claim is filed and the insurance company suspects that you were over weight. The fight begins. Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: 6A Tip-Up for Sale
Date: Sep 29, 2003
I am selling my well-equipped 6A tip up due to back problems. Specs and pics at http://home.att.net/~dpersyk/rv6a.htm Dennis Persyk N600DP 147 enjoyable hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Canyon <steve.canyon(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Gkb5577(at)aol.com wrote: >I'm in the market for another project: tossing b/w Co-Z and RV You >guys have >any words of wisdom? Geoff Bowman, North Carolina --- Geoff, I've followed both the EZ lists and the RV lists for about 5 years in anticipation of the time I would build and initially had the same thoughts. It's been a long time since I convinced myself the RV is just more 'bang for the buck," and that doesn't count all around performance advantages of the RVs. Below is a clip from a builder of one of the EZ/Cozys: ---cut here--- Has anyone flown their Cozy into the Taos Regional airport? Did you have sufficient runway to comfortably fly in and out? What time of the year did you visit Taos? http://www.airnav.com/airport/SKX Runway length is 5798' and the elevation is 7065' MSL ---cut here--- Don't recall ever seeing such a message from an RV builder. If you intend to fly from one looong concrete strip to another, then that sexy looking plane may suit your intended missions as well or better, but I personally want a little more flexibility and may not have the luxury of postponing an unexpected departure from the original flight plan. Speed is within probably about 5% or so anyway. Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: LPS-1 vs LPS-2
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Guys, Does anybody know what the practical application difference is between LPS-1 and LPS-2 for general purpose lubrication? The former contains grease and the latter is greaseless if memory serves me correctly. Seems that the -1 with grease might hold up longer (i.e. be less likely to wash or evaporate out). Just thought I'd tap into the endless knowledge and wisdom of The Great RV-List to see if anybody has a revelation on which one to use for various applications like rod end bearings, piano hinges, and various FWF linkages and assemblies--and why one is better than the other for said application. Forever indebted, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D painting...painting...painting... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dmedema(at)att.net
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 29, 2003
A couple of comments based on the recent posts regarding my gross weight of 1800 lbs. I decided on 1800 lbs based on various messages posted on the RV list over the years. A major one was with regards to the float conversion which supposedly received an ok from Van to go up to 1800 lbs. There have also been postings giving G loads at various weights and 1800 seems to still be in the Utility category. I haven't had my plane inspected yet (still waiting for the Feds), but am confident that I am allowed to set the gross weight to what I want since I'm the manufacturer. A slightly related issue is that there are no structural differences between the -6 and the -6A, but the gross weight was raised by Van by 50 pounds. I wonder what the ultimate gross weight really is for these planes and how is it determined? I suspect gear loads on a rough landing have a lot to do with it. With regards to insurance issues: I'm certainly no legal expert, but I would rather be at 1700 lbs with a listed gross weight of 1800 rather than a listed gros weight of 1650. Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM waiting for inspection. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: [new builder] Dimpling..
Date: Sep 29, 2003
> Should I re-do the "bad" ones? Any suggestions? Don't sweat it, just keep it all perpendicular as you dimple. But my real advice to any new builder is that you ought to take the SportAir "RV Assembly" workshop. It's *well* worth the money. http://www.sportair.com/workshops/RV%20Assembly.html Alternatively/additionally, find another local RV builder and/or an EAA technical counselor. Other builders are what really make this whole thing happen. I definitely would not have gotten this far without other guys locally and all the help I've gotten on the email lists. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: governor hose hole in front baffle
Since the hose is at an angle the hole is made egg shaped. I just made the hole with about 1/8 clearance all around and then sealed with red silicone. OR Why not run the hose on top of the engine? You have AFP, FI. The hoses (Gov, and fuel) will fight each other if routed under the cylinders. At least the did for me. FWIW > >On my RV-7/IO-360-A1B6, the governor hose OD is 1" including the firesleeve. >I'm curious what the best way to protect this hose is, as it passes down >through the front baffle floor. Grommet? RTV? > >The reason I'm even asking about this, rather than just simply using a >grommet, is that the location of the hole kind of straddles the edge of the >baffle bracket (part #16 in my kit) and the .063" doubler. The issue is >that the grommet would have to accommodate varying thickness...in some areas >baffle+doubler+bracket, baffle+doubler, and just baffle. The range is >basically .032 to .125, so I'm not sure if a grommet is best suited for >this. > >Here's a photo of the front baffle, showing the location of the >hole-to-be...the clecoed hole is a good centering candidate: > >http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_to_be.jpg > >And here's a photo up from underneath, showing roughly how the hole will >straddle the edges of various thicknesses: > >http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030928_hose_hole_beneath.jpg > >If I were to drill the hole exactly 1", I believe the firesleeved hose would >have a snug fit. But I can't imagine that letting the firesleeve chafe >against the hole would be kosher. What's the best way to protect the hose >in this case? > >Thanks in advance, >)_( Dan >RV-7 N714D >http://www.rvproject.com > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
dmedema(at)att.net wrote: > A slightly related issue is that there are > no structural differences between the -6 and the -6A, but the > gross weight was raised by Van by 50 pounds.


September 15, 2003 - September 29, 2003

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