RV-Archive.digest.vol-oh

September 29, 2003 - October 06, 2003



      
      Well, that's not exactly true.  The main gearlegs on a -6A mount to the 
      front of the spar, don't they?  And the nosewheel into the engine mount. 
        I think the default configuration also used to be a tip-up canopy on a 
      tailwheel, and slider on a nosewheel, but i'm not sure if that is still 
      the case.  I would guess that an RV-6 would also have reinforcements in 
      the tailcone for tailwheel attachment.  Off the top of my head, i'd 
      guess that these modifications would suggest that the -6 gross weight 
      shoudl be higher than the -6A, but I didn't design the plane so I don't 
      know what considerations were made.
      
      > I wonder what
      > the ultimate gross weight really is for these planes and 
      > how is it determined?  I suspect gear loads on a rough landing
      > have a lot to do with it.
      
      Actually, they don't.  Gear loads on a rough landing have a lot to do 
      with how the landing gear is designed, period.  What (should) determine 
      the gross weight limitation on an airplane is the aerodynamic structural 
      limits of the aircraft for a given loading condition.  In the case of 
      the -6, that's Utility category to 1600#, and Aerobatic to 1400#, if I 
      recall.  My -7 will be Utility to 1800#, and Aerobatic to 1600#.  I 
      don't know what components are the limiting factors in these conditions, 
      but without analyzing every structural member myself, I wouldn't change 
      the gross weight from what Van suggests.
      
      > With regards to insurance issues:  I'm certainly no legal
      > expert, but I would rather be at 1700 lbs with a listed
      > gross weight of 1800 rather than a listed gros weight of 1650.
      
      I have a hard time believing that an insurance company would consider 
      one condition to be better than the other when the manufacturer's 
      recommended gross weight is 1650, unless you have some engineering data 
      to back up your increase to 1800.  I doubt your adjuster would accept 
      "well, everyone on the RV-List is doing it and they say it's okay."
      
      Just my $0.02.
      
      -Rob Prior
        rv7 "at" b4.ca
        RV-7 Empennage (still)
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
On my -6, if I had an O-320 and a wood prop, I wouldn't be able to load it above 1600 without exceeding the aft CG limit, since the empty CG starts out pretty will back. As it happens I have an O-360 and a Hartzell CS which moves the empty CG well forward. The airplane is within CG limits when it's sitting empty on the ramp or when it's loaded to 1850 lbs. with 100 of that in the baggage area. So, if Van set the gross weight limit using the small engine and wood prop he probably couldn't have set it any higher and still had anything in the baggage area. So, I think that it might be more of a CG issue than a weight issue. Dave Paul Besing wrote: > >Good question. I just know that the limits can be exceeded. How much, who >knows. I know Van would not just throw darts to determine GW, but what I am >sure he has done is built in a fudge factor for those who push the limits, >just to keep it from falling out of the sky. If he recommended the weight >at 1800, someone would go 1900, and so on. I have heard many mention that >this airplane is over engineered in many ways for this reason exactly. >Van's has told me not to worry about certain things due to the fact that the >plane is over engineered to allow for let's say, poor building habits. > >I think most airplanes are this way. They can't set all the limts at the >*real* limits, or we would have alot more accidents due to accidental (or >intentional) acts of exceeding limits. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A Sold >RV-10 Soon >http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing >Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software >http://www.kitlog.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Bob" <panamared2(at)brier.net> >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A > > > > >> >>This is an very interesting topic. If the RV6 will carry 1800 pounds, >> >> >what > > >>about 1850? Just what is the real gross weight. I hope Van did some sort >>of engineering analysis on the airframe, and just didn't throw darts to >>determine the gross weight! This leads to the question, just what is >> >> >gross > > >>weight anyway (and I don't just mean the FAR defination)? Perhaps gross >>weight is not an engineering term, but it has something to do with the >>ability of potential pilots? >> >>Bob >>RV6 NightFighter >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: Friends
Niiiccce answer. You guys are sure helpful. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Does this mean that if you CAD out a RV that W&B could very rality based be increased? Would it be necessary to lengthen the coupling to the empennage, or some other reasonable mods? I'm thinking of starting ( anyone know of someone with some parts/ kit, etc. they want to unload) one. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Thanks, Bill. I've done some fiberglass work too and what you say is exactly the situation I encountered.. if you know of anyone that has partial kits, etc. let me know, would you. No sense putting good a/c components to waste. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
I had some scraps of laid up FG on foam and took the out to the burn pile: it was like lighting a fuse--that stuff REALLY IS petroleum product(s)!!! Scares the heck out of me just thinking of the possibilities. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: [new builder] Dimpling..
CHARLOTTE, NC!!! !!!! I'm in Statesville and thinking of starting a RV. Could I pick your brains sometime? Geoff 704-872-0004, 7555 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Steve: These comments are all very helpful. The clip reminds me of flying the Piper Lance: aside from the obvious it too had 'port limitations. Thanks again. Let me know if you hear of anyone with some of the kits, would you? Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Lycoming IO-360 (180 - 200HP) wanted
These are from Wentworth. http://www.wentworthaircraft.com/home.htm 0360A1A 180 H.P. LOGS LOST $8,950 0360A1D 180 H.P. 605 SMOH $13,500 0360A1D 180 H.P. 2700 SMOH $8,500 0360A1G6D 180 H.P. 2845 SMOH $8,500 0360A3A 190 H.P. 695 SMOH AEROBATIC $12,950 0360A4A 180 H.P. 540 SMOH BAD CRANK $7,500 0360A1F6D 180 H.P. 340 SMOH 0360A4A 180 H.P. 120 SFOH BAD CRANK $8,500 0360J2A 180 H.P. 1072 SNEW CONICAL MOUNT $10,500 0360J2A 180 H.P. 238 SNEW $12,950 0360A4G 180 H.P. 980 SMOH $7,950 I0-360A3B6D 200 H.P. 1947 SMOH I0-360B1A 180 H.P. 871 SMOH I0-360B1E 180 H.P. 1616 SMOH I0360B1E 180 H.P. 128 SMOH T0-360C1A6D 210 H.P. 350 SMOH I0-360C1B 200 H.P. 85 SMOH I0-360C1C 200 H.P. 510 SMOH I0360C1E6 NO LOGS I0-360L2A 180 H.P. 123 SNEW $13,500 Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 29, 2003
> Van to go up to 1800 lbs. There have also been postings > giving G loads at various weights and 1800 seems to still > be in the Utility category. Utility category implies 4.4g's. This would not be wise to intentionally do at 1800 lbs. I set my gross at 1800, but in my weight and balance sheet I extrapolated the maximum g loading for 1800 lbs to be about 3.6. This was based upon 6 g's at 1375 and 4.4 at 1650. This, of course, assumes that the wing is the limiting structural item. I also never plan to land above 1650 lbs. I recall Van (or someone at Van's) once writing that the landing gear ARE a limiting factor (obviously). It is a probability game, play with knowledge of the risks. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 375 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 29, 2003
IF you juggle things carefully, you can move the empty CG far enough forward with an 0-320/wood prop combination to carry plenty of baggage. I routinely load 75-80 pounds of bags in mine with as much as 350 pounds of people up front and 220 lbs of fuel. With this loading, I consider the last 50 pounds of fuel (8 gallons, or one hour's worth) to be an emergency reserve, and if it is an emergency situation, I'll take being a little aft of the "allowable" CG over being a glider pilot. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: W&B on a -6A > > On my -6, if I had an O-320 and a wood prop, I wouldn't be able to load > it above 1600 without exceeding the aft CG limit, since the empty CG > starts out pretty will back. As it happens I have an O-360 and a > Hartzell CS which moves the empty CG well forward. The airplane is > within CG limits when it's sitting empty on the ramp or when it's loaded > to 1850 lbs. with 100 of that in the baggage area. So, if Van set the > gross weight limit using the small engine and wood prop he probably > couldn't have set it any higher and still had anything in the baggage area. > So, I think that it might be more of a CG issue than a weight issue. > > Dave > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 29, 2003
> I think the default configuration also used to be a tip-up canopy on a >tailwheel, and slider on a nosewheel, but I'm not sure if that is still >the case. I would guess that an RV-6 would also have reinforcements in >the tailcone for tailwheel attachment. Off the top of my head, i'd >guess that these modifications would suggest that the -6 gross weight >shoudl be higher than the -6A, but I didn't design the plane so I don't >know what considerations were made. Pure conjecture, but when I started work on my -6A in 1994 there were no sliders designed. I remember it being an option offered in a later RVator. The GW's didn't change for the tip-ups in either configuration, I.e. 50 lbs difference. I expect the raise in GW between -6 and the -6-A of 50 pounds was due to the difference in weights between the tail wheel and the nose wheel with its longer leg + fairing + bigger wheel + fairing and more complex engine mount. Cheers!! Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Fuel line help needed!
Vent lines installed, now I move on to the fuel lines and I am stumped :-( I am building a 7A so those gear weldment are there. I ran the fuel line from the flop tube straight back and plan on putting a 90 fitting to attach the tube coming thru the fuselage. I looked at that corner where the gear weldment is and I can not figure out how to even start , Help!!! -- Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Rv list Hartzell Prop
Hi Joel, Nobody seems to be responding to your question so I'll give it a stab. This is completely from memory so you REAL mechanics out there will need to cut me some slack! On the compact hub propeller they use a combination of a stud and a nut that are pinned together with a roll pin and of course a washer between the nut and the propeller hub. This all came assembled on my prop so I didn't pay a lot of attention to it but I guess they use that combination because there isn't enough room to get a bolt in. The only way you can run the safety wire is through the hole in the roll pin. Dave smoothweasel(at)juno.com wrote: > > > Does anyone out there know what the combination of >stud,washer,nut and locking arrangement is used when mounting a Hartzell >to a O-320 B3B? Also I have one aluminum 12 in. spinner and a 12 in. >fiberglass spinner that I would like to sell/trade for a 13 in. > > >Joel "Weasel" Graber >RV-4 Finishing >Brooksville Ms > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WMPALM(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Geoff, Probably the best way to find a partially-completed kit is by "word-of-mouth" in your local area. Shipping is certainly cheaper, and you can inspect the kit relatively easily. A second option is Trade-A-Plane, but it's likely to be more of a hassle. Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than 50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate. If you're going the RV route and are looking to build as fast as possible, you can't beat Van's Quick Build kits. Good Luck! Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick N" <rvator(at)nicknaf.com>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Date: Sep 29, 2003
*** Snip *** Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than 50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate. *** End Snip *** Negative ghostrider. Check the archives and the EAA website. The 51% rule should be no problem in getting the repairman's cert on a previously started kit. Just a quick search and I found this one, there are several hundred other examples. http://www.checkoway.com/url/?s=a39d360 Best of luck, Nick = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
> > > Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than >50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate. > > > The airplane must be 51% "amateur built" but it's not necessary for the holder of the repairman certificate to have built 51%, he could be one of a group of builders and still get the certificate. Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
Subject: [ Jim & Terri Truitt ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jim & Terri Truitt Subject: Jim & Terri Truitt's RV-8A http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Jim.Truitt@usdoj.gov.09.29.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 29, 2003
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel line help needed!
>The 6a is similar. I made several sets of fuel lines, the ones inside >fuse from valve to fuse wall, before I got an acceptable setup. If I were >to do it again I would use fuel hoses. More money but easier and tougher. K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) >I am building a 7A so those gear weldment are there. I ran the fuel line >from the flop tube straight back and plan on putting a 90 fitting to >attach the tube coming thru the fuselage. I looked at that corner where >the gear weldment is and I can not figure out how to even start , Help!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ Werner" <russ(at)wernerworld.com>
Subject: Looking for Tampa area builder (Not RV)
Date: Sep 29, 2003
I'm looking for a Tampa area builder who might be able to look over a BMW I'm thinking of purchasing used from someone in Tampa, FL. Anyone with the time and interest who might be able to help out a fellow builder, drop me a line at the email below. Please do not respond to this message to reply. Thanks, Russ Werner russ@wernerworld ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Date: Sep 30, 2003
There is NO 51% rule for the "limited repairman's certificate." Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: <WMPALM(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV frame of mind > > Geoff, > > Probably the best way to find a partially-completed kit is by "word-of-mouth" > in your local area. Shipping is certainly cheaper, and you can inspect the > kit relatively easily. A second option is Trade-A-Plane, but it's likely to be > more of a hassle. Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than > 50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate. > > If you're going the RV route and are looking to build as fast as possible, > you can't beat Van's Quick Build kits. > > Good Luck! > > Bill > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
Listers, I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The consensus seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the best. The are also the most expensive. I'd like to know what listers using the Flightcom 403S or 403D think of these units. Is anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other units I should look at? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
From: Allan.James(at)hstna.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
18, 2001) at 09/30/2003 09:00:20 AM, Serialize complete at 09/30/2003 09:00:20 AM Listers, I just completed the installation of the elevator electric trim. After riveting everything together, I found where the platenuts overlapped the opening in the reinforcement plate prevented me from inserting the cover plate with the servo. I ended up grinding down five of the plate nuts where the overhung the opening. I don't recall seeing any mention of this in the archives or any where else. Has anyone else run into this, or did I do something wrong? Thanks, Allan James Michigan RV7A - Emp - Elevators N322AR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
Date: Sep 30, 2003
DRE 244e. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss > Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 7:51 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted > > > Listers, > I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The > consensus seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the > best. The are also the most expensive. I'd like to know what > listers using the Flightcom 403S or 403D think of these units. Is > anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other units I should look at? > Charlie Kuss > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Date: Sep 30, 2003
I just read Dana's and Jerry's two inputs to this discussion. I applaud Jerry for having taken just 20 months to build his RV using the old style kits. It took me 7.5 years to build my -6A. Why? I had an airplane to fly and wasn't pressured to get mine done. I also agree with Dana that it would be better if one could snap up one of the newer kits. They do go together much faster. I helped Jim Render get his -9A quick build in the air in eleven months of part time work. I was very impressed with the kits we worked with and am looking forward to doing one of my own, when I can get around to it. :-) My spending a lot of time at Pat Patterson's Miles Field near Shelbyville, KY has helped me to learn a bit about the used kit market. There are plenty of them out there to be had, if one takes his time to look. Pat buys and sells partially built kits as a hobby and has involved me in getting some of them ready to fly, etc. Granted, I didn't spend great amounts of my time helping him; but, my exposure to the used kit market has been greatly appreciated and very enlightening. Thanks, Pat! Alas, there is one rub in what I've been seeing in some of the incomplete kits that are for sale. The kits seem to run the gauntlet between being of superior quality to being death traps looking for an unsuspecting victim. Believe me, there are far more of the latter than the former. At least, that's what I've witnessed. If you're looking for a partially built kit to finish, be sure to have someone with you who's got the knowledge of that kit to look at it with you. Make sure that person believes in building a quality airplane so that something inferior in the kit in question will be pointed out before you've bought it and found that it's going to take a lot of work, or just plain throwing away of a portion of it, to fix the problems found. I'm not saying that you must find the perfect kit before buying it. Just be aware of what it will take to fix the problems and buy it accordingly. Never buy a kit over the telephone without looking at it in person. As Jerry said, there are some mighty fine older kits out there looking to be finished and can be had a good prices. Just be careful when you start looking. One other thing one wants to be aware of. One should be careful of any kit that's been advertised as being A&P, or professionally, built. Granted, I'm sure many of the A but, some of the worst homebuilt kits I've seen were done by A&Ps. It's as if they threw out everything they've ever learned when they started building an airplane. Remember that these guys usually get very little training in metal work, fiberglassing, etc. in schools. Most of the A&Ps I know have less that a couple of dozen clecos and may not even have a hand squeezer in their tool chests. One Dragonfly that I was just helping with had hardware in it that surely was pulled out of the A&P's scrounge box. In fact, almost everything in that airplane looked like it had been scrounged. It had inferior work, throughout, and was going to cost him more to get it back in the air than it would cost for one already flying. I was finally able to convince the owner to sell it and start looking for something else. As Jerry said, the older kits can be a real buy. If you're in a really big hurry, try to find a newer kit or buy one already flying. Just be wary of what you're buying and look it over very carefully, I don't care if it is flying. The Dragonfly already had about 15 hours on it. There was no way I'd ride in it the way it was built. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Take a look at flight tech intercoms http://flighttech.com/. They make a ANR-line intercom. I have heard one and was amazed. Wiring one for my 6A now. Don Listers, I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The consensus seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the best. The are also the most expensive. I'd like to know what listers using the Flightcom 403S or 403D think of these units. Is anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other units I should look at? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
Date: Sep 30, 2003
I us the AA-83 by NAT This is the best unit by far IMHO. I have used the PS engineering's units and was very happy with the PM7000B, but just for an intercom the AA-83 is by far the best for the Van's aircraft line and the other small noisy ones like Kitfox. Sincerely, Noel Simmons Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. Phone: 866-859-0390 Fax: 406-538-6574 noel(at)blueskyaviation.net www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net> -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss Subject: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted Listers, I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The consensus seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the best. The are also the most expensive. I'd like to know what listers using the Flightcom 403S or 403D think of these units. Is anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other units I should look at? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Re: Fuel lines 6A
In a message dated 9/30/03 1:01:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes: > The 6a is similar. I made several sets of fuel lines, the ones inside > >fuse from valve to fuse wall, before I got an acceptable setup. If I were > >to do it again I would use fuel hoses. More money but easier and tougher I agree with Hal. Had the same experience of fabricating several pieces before was satisfied. Plus, the lines down near the back of your feet are susceptible to getting hit by your heels. Flexible lines would take more abuse. Dale Ensing ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
I'll second James suggestion. I have the DRE 244e in my RV and it's awesome. I get lots of comments on the great sounding intercom, and stereo sound (I use it with an iPod) with people I fly with. I later added a new radio and had some tech questions...they were great! Highly recommended. http://www.drecomm.com/ Laird 800 hrs with DRE > >DRE 244e. > >James > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss >> Sent: Tuesday, September 30, 2003 7:51 AM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted >> >> >> >> Listers, >> I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The >> consensus seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the >> best. The are also the most expensive. I'd like to know what >> listers using the Flightcom 403S or 403D think of these units. Is >> anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other units I should look at? >> Charlie Kuss >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Tilt option for slider
I can't find the address of the person making the tilt mod for the sliding canopy. After flying the first 27 hours off on my RV6 I think I'd like to add that to mine. Any help out there? Larry Gagnon N6LG 27.8 hours of RV grin so far ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Electric elevator trim
From: Allan.James(at)hstna.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
18, 2001) at 09/30/2003 01:10:26 PM, Serialize complete at 09/30/2003 01:10:26 PM Listers, I just completed the installation of the elevator electric trim. After riveting everything together, I found where the platenuts overlapped the opening in the reinforcement plate prevented me from inserting the cover plate with the servo. I ended up grinding down five of the plate nuts where the overhung the opening. I don't recall seeing any mention of this in the archives or any where else. Has anyone else run into this, or did I do something wrong? Thanks, Allan James Michigan RV7A - Emp - Elevators N322AR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
I'll second the recommendations for the DRE-244. Installation was a snap, it comes with a very nice pre assembled wiring harness with every wire labeled. One nice feature, which I understand is unique to DRE, is that the earphone jacks automatically compensate for stereo/ mono headsets. They are stereo jacks, but one can plug a mono headset in without any adapters, and the intercom automatically senses this and compensates. Jeff Point RV-6 panel, wiring Milwaukee WI Charlie Kuss wrote: > >Listers, > I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The consensus seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the best. The are also the most expensive. I'd like to know what listers using the Flightcom 403S or 403D think of these units. Is anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other units I should look at? >Charlie Kuss > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Does it come with a 2.25" round face option? - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Laird Owens said: > > I'll second James suggestion. I have the DRE 244e in my RV and it's > awesome. I get lots of comments on the great sounding intercom, and > stereo sound (I use it with an iPod) with people I fly with. > > I later added a new radio and had some tech questions...they were great! > > Highly recommended. > http://www.drecomm.com/ > > Laird 800 hrs with DRE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RE: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
The NAT units are simply the best units I've tried. The NAT units are made for the helo market and I can't imagine a nosier environment.....well my RV-4 comes close. The NAT allow normal communications with no background noise, no clipping and no cut-out. When I first used it with ATC, I thought the controller was chatting with me in my office-the voice was so clear and crisp and not loud. Also, female voices don't get lost,clipped or drown out. My wife's 2000+ hrtz. voice come in very crisp & good with out shouting.....maybe thats bad now that she can talk to me with apparent ease while flying......hmmmm Got my NAT from a Hughes 300 in a salvage yard for 1/3 to 1/4 the price of new, no tax or shipping. I have somewhere near 90 bucks in the unit. I us the AA-83 by NAT This is the best unit by far IMHO. I have used the PS engineering's units and was very happy with the PM7000B, but just for an intercom the AA-83 is small noisy ones like Kitfox. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Tilt option for slider
http://www.aircraftextras.com/ Larygagnon(at)aol.com wrote: > >I can't find the address of the person making the tilt mod for the sliding >canopy. After flying the first 27 hours off on my RV6 I think I'd like to add >that to mine. Any help out there? > >Larry Gagnon >N6LG 27.8 hours of RV grin so far > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
I would make sure I had cleared that with the DAR or inspector who's going to give you the cert, BEFORE purchasing that kit. Finn Nick N wrote: > > >*** Snip *** > >Note that you'll have to purchase a kit that is less than >50% complete in order to qualify for the repairman certificate. > >*** End Snip *** > >Negative ghostrider. > >Check the archives and the EAA website. The 51% rule should be no >problem in getting the repairman's cert on a previously started kit. > >Just a quick search and I found this one, there are several hundred >other examples. >http://www.checkoway.com/url/?s=a39d360 > >Best of luck, > >Nick > > >= >= >http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report >= >= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Re: RV List
Saw your Email, would appreciate any refs. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
No mention of it on their website, and I don't recall seeing one at the booth at Oshkosh. The faceplate is 2 1/2 wide. Looking at mine, it looks like it could be made to fit, with some minor trimming of the faceplate. Or call the company, they are great to deal with. http://www.drecomm.com/ Jeff Point Larry Bowen wrote: >Does it come with a 2.25" round face option? > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Re: Kit Caution
Good advice . Perhaps I should just get a new kit from Vans? Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Re: RV Comments
Thanks for the words of wisdom. Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
For those who know more about aerodynamics than I, and I did study it in college, I have a question. Is the G loading graph linear? Can you extrapolate as indicated in the Post below? Can you interpolate a G load at a given weight below gross weight. One aerodynamic engineer has told me no! I don't think we can assume that the wing is the "only" limiting structural item (see Post below). Other parts of the aircraft are critical to flight, and structural departure of horizontal stab, failure of the motor mount/firewall would cause serious in flight problems. In my life every time I have said "never" God makes me do what I said I never would do. In my opinion if you are loaded above 1650 lbs, sooner or later you will land over gross (See Post below). Critical emergencies demand a landing immediately, even non critical reasons might demand an immediate landing. Personally, I see nothing wrong with an 1800 lbs gross weight, but, when I die, and my wife sells the plane (an RV is a valuable asset that should not be not just be junked when the builder dies) I want to insure that the next pilot understands the limitations. In my POH, the max gross weight is 1600 lbs. If the next owner wants to fly at 1800 lbs. with an extreme rearward CG, then that is his problem, if he crashes, then he can not blame the manufacturer. I try to keep in mind that I will not be the only person to fly or own my RV! Bob RV6 NightFighter >Utility category implies 4.4g's. This would not be wise to >intentionally do at 1800 lbs. I set my gross at 1800, but in my weight >and balance sheet I extrapolated the maximum g loading for 1800 lbs to >be about 3.6. This was based upon 6 g's at 1375 and 4.4 at 1650. This, >of course, assumes that the wing is the limiting structural item. > >I also never plan to land above 1650 lbs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Fuel lines 6A
Before arbitrarily replacing metal lines with hoses remember that besides being a lot more expensive, they are also life limited and WILL have to be replaced someday while metal lines usually last the life of the airplane. Hoses are also more susceptible to leaks with age and are usually used only where there is likely to be flexing that would damage a solid line. I know using a hose would be easier but who said this was going to be easy? 8>) Dave EAA Technical Counselor DWENSING(at)aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 9/30/03 1:01:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes: > > > > >>The 6a is similar. I made several sets of fuel lines, the ones inside >> >> >>>fuse from valve to fuse wall, before I got an acceptable setup. If I were >>>to do it again I would use fuel hoses. More money but easier and tougher >>> >>> > >I agree with Hal. Had the same experience of fabricating several pieces >before was satisfied. Plus, the lines down near the back of your feet are >susceptible to getting hit by your heels. Flexible lines would take more abuse. >Dale Ensing > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Bob wrote: > For those who know more about aerodynamics than I, and I did study it in > college, I have a question. Is the G loading graph linear? Can you > extrapolate as indicated in the Post below? Can you interpolate a G load > at a given weight below gross weight. One aerodynamic engineer has told me no! Make that *two* aeronautical engineers. > I don't think we can assume that the wing is the "only" limiting structural > item (see Post below). Other parts of the aircraft are critical to flight, > and structural departure of horizontal stab, failure of the motor > mount/firewall would cause serious in flight problems. Very true. This is much easier to see if you look at the problem from the other side, that of an airplane that is certified for Normal Category at a given weight being flown for Aerobatics: It's tempting to say that "if it's safe at 3.8G at gross, then certainly with one person aboard and half fuel, it should be safe for light aerobatics." This is, of course, wrong. And it's easy to see using your engine mount example above... In a 3.8G pull-up, your engine weighs a certain amount, and your engine mount can support that weight. If you pull harder, regardless of the loading elsewhere in the plane, you increase the load on your engine mount beyond that design limit. That's just one simple, and (hopefully) very clear example. Taken from the RV perspective, flying an aerobatic plane at a lower G, but higher Gross Weight, you can run into any number of limitations on the airframe, from the question of "where do you put that extra weight?" to "was the area you're going to put it in designed to take it?" Without a full, engineering analysis of the airframe it's quite difficult to say where the limiting factor would be. It *may* turn out, as people hope, to be the wing, in which case flying Utility at 1800# could be completely safe. But you won't *know* without that analysis, and I suspect the only way to find out is to pay someone to do it. -Rob Prior B.A.Sc. Mech Eng. 1994 Industrial Aerodynamics and Aircraft option (specializing in light aircraft structures and aerodynamics) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Gkb5577(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: Dimpler
Someone had mentioned that they develpoed an efficient dimpler-- can they contact me? ( I think I'm learning how to use this site.) Geoff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Jim Sears offensive comments on RV frame of mind
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Apparantly, Mr. Williams has led a sheltered life as a A&P and doesn't realize that not all A&Ps are made the same way. I've seen good A&Ps that I'd put up against any other A&P. However, I've also seen A&Ps so bad that I wonder how they still hold their certificates. I don't have to go very far from home to find both kinds, either. Alas, I don't see the other A&Ps working to get rid of the bad ones, as Mr. Williams spoke of. They continue to do sloppy jobs and keep moving around to keep ahead of their bad reputations. Because I don't know him, I have no idea which category Mr. Williams falls into without seeing his work. He may be one of the good ones; but; I'd still not buy a kit, or a flying airplane, from him without giving it a real looking over. Yep, I've seen some A&P owned certified aircraft that I wouldn't ride in either. With that, Mr. Williams, I'd not be so defensive. I'm just telling some of our folks that one can not depend on everyone being honest or really good at what they do. My experience has shown that many are not. With that, I do not apologize for stating the facts. The Dragonfly I spoke of in an earlier note was built by an A&P with an IA. Had Mr. Williams read the note carefully, he'd have noted that I did not bash all A&P built aircraft. It's just that ones I saw were not very well done to the point that I would not ride in them without modifications. Even the Dragonfly could be made into a nice airplane, given enough time and money to do so. The owner did not have the time and did not want to spend that much money to do so. Do not depend on a A&P built claim to give you a warm fuzzy that the kit in question is a good one. Look at it carefully before you buy it, no matter who is supposed to have built it and no matter what credentials they may hold. Talk is cheap. Buying a kit is not. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Subject: RV-4 Extended Length IP question
I am considering re-doing my RV-4 panel and lowering the bottom edge of it by about 1.5 inches. I have mocked up a panel in my plane and I can get in and out OK and I don't hit my knees on it, but I am worried about taking 1.5" off of my stick. I am 5'10" and I have by rudder pedals as far forward as I can. Has anyone out there done this, and if so how is the stick at 1.5" lower? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Mike Kraus N223RV Flying, approaching 100 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hollandm" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel lines 6A
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Having just finished this process in a 9A I can easily understand what you were dealing with and how I solved the problem. First of all, on an "A" version of anything Van's sells the plans are wrong. What they show on the fuel line drawings is based upon the tail dragger configuration. This impacts most critically which grommet hole you choose to run the 3/8th (fat) lines. Don't do as the plans show because it will have the line running smack into the gear main weldment, use the upper grommet holes instead for this run. The vent lines aren't much trouble as they are more flexible so I won't bother with them. But the way I finally got it to work, after many failed tries and discarded tubing, was to get an approximate idea of how much pipe I would need for the run from the valve to outside, with a little excess. Flare only the valve end. Don't attach it. Bend the valve end into a close coupled shallow S curve that will allow it to connect to the valve and still reach the grommet in the rib without strain. Thread the straight part through the grommets and sort of milk it out into the cabin in front of the gear weldment. Once you have all your excess out there then work the valve end into position and fasten it to hold it in position. Now the fun part. You will have to make a bend (all done by hand around the main gear weldment by estimating where it will need to be with the pipe in final position. Once you have this done then you insert the straight portion through the web and work it out through the grommet in the cabin side. The problem is that as you work with this tubing it work hardens fast and eventually becomes almost impossible to deal with. By the time I was through with this process I was regretting the decision not to build a tail dragger, regardless of the insurance cost! If there are some who would like pictures of the finished result let me know. There are lots of trail dragger examples and not many trigears, to my knowledge. Regards, Mike Holland ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel lines 6A > > Before arbitrarily replacing metal lines with hoses remember that > besides being a lot more expensive, they are also life limited and WILL > have to be replaced someday while metal lines usually last the life of > the airplane. Hoses are also more susceptible to leaks with age and are > usually used only where there is likely to be flexing that would damage > a solid line. I know using a hose would be easier but who said this was > going to be easy? 8>) > > Dave EAA Technical Counselor > > DWENSING(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > >In a message dated 9/30/03 1:01:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes: > > > > > > > > > >>The 6a is similar. I made several sets of fuel lines, the ones inside > >> > >> > >>>fuse from valve to fuse wall, before I got an acceptable setup. If I were > >>>to do it again I would use fuel hoses. More money but easier and tougher > >>> > >>> > > > >I agree with Hal. Had the same experience of fabricating several pieces > >before was satisfied. Plus, the lines down near the back of your feet are > >susceptible to getting hit by your heels. Flexible lines would take more abuse. > >Dale Ensing > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Extended Length IP question
N223RV(at)aol.com wrote: > > >I am considering re-doing my RV-4 panel and lowering the bottom edge of it by >about 1.5 inches. I have mocked up a panel in my plane and I can get in and >out OK and I don't hit my knees on it, but I am worried about taking 1.5" off >of my stick. I am 5'10" and I have by rudder pedals as far forward as I can. > >Has anyone out there done this, and if so how is the stick at 1.5" lower? >Any help would be greatly appreciated. >Thanks >-Mike Kraus >N223RV Flying, approaching 100 hours > I'm now flying my 2nd purchased -4, & the only time I move my hand to the top of the stick is when I want a max rate roll or to get my thumb on the PPT. Why not wrap a bungie at the cut point & fly it a few days or weeks with your hand below the cut point & see how you like it? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 30, 2003
A few more comments, see below: Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 375 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > I don't think we can assume that the wing is the "only" limiting > > structural > > item (see Post below). Other parts of the aircraft are > critical to flight, > > and structural departure of horizontal stab, failure of the motor > > mount/firewall would cause serious in flight problems. > > Very true. This is much easier to see if you look at the > problem from > the other side, that of an airplane that is certified for Normal > Category at a given weight being flown for Aerobatics: > > It's tempting to say that "if it's safe at 3.8G at gross, > then certainly > with one person aboard and half fuel, it should be safe for light > aerobatics." This is, of course, wrong. And it's easy to see using > your engine mount example above... In a 3.8G pull-up, your > engine weighs > a certain amount, and your engine mount can support that > weight. If you > pull harder, regardless of the loading elsewhere in the plane, you > increase the load on your engine mount beyond that design limit. Yes, but we are not talking about that. We are talking about a specific aircraft which, at certain weights, is allowed to go to +6 gs. Your example above would apply if someone were saying "ok, then at 1300 lbs I can go to 7 g's". No one is suggesting that. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Sep 30, 2003
I was quite sure my post from yesterday would stir things up, and it has. See my comments below. Alex Peterson Maple Grove, MN RV6-A N66AP 375 hours www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson > > I don't think we can assume that the wing is the "only" > limiting structural > item (see Post below). Other parts of the aircraft are > critical to flight, > and structural departure of horizontal stab, failure of the motor > mount/firewall would cause serious in flight problems. The motor mount's flight stresses are not affected by the gross weight, only the g loads on the airplane. The loads on the horizontal stabilizer are related to g loads, but also to cg location. The motor mount in a non RV8 taildragger would, of course, see more landing and ground ops loads. > > In my life every time I have said "never" God makes me do > what I said I > never would do. In my opinion if you are loaded above 1650 > lbs, sooner or > later you will land over gross (See Post below). Critical > emergencies > demand a landing immediately, even non critical reasons might > demand an > immediate landing. I have landed above 1650, and of course the gear survived. Would they survive a really botched landing as well at 1800 as at 1650? Obviously not. I have contemplated the fact that I might have to land at 1800, and I take that into consideration when weighing the risks of flight. Rough grass strips are much more likely to damage landing gears at 1650 than paved runways at 1800. Indeed, many trikes have bent nose gears and bent airplanes on rough strips. Does this mean that the POH should prohibit grass runways? I consider rough strips much more hazardous at 1400 lbs. than paved at 1800. > > Personally, I see nothing wrong with an 1800 lbs gross > weight, but, when I > die, and my wife sells the plane (an RV is a valuable asset > that should > not be not just be junked when the builder dies) I want to > insure that the > next pilot understands the limitations. In my POH, the max > gross weight is > 1600 lbs. If the next owner wants to fly at 1800 lbs. with > an extreme > rearward CG, Can't be done in my plane, unless one puts more than the 100 lbs limitation in the baggage area. > then that is his problem, if he crashes, then he > can not blame > the manufacturer. I try to keep in mind that I will not be > the only person > to fly or own my RV! Good point. > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > > >Utility category implies 4.4g's. This would not be wise to > >intentionally do at 1800 lbs. I set my gross at 1800, but > in my weight > >and balance sheet I extrapolated the maximum g loading for > 1800 lbs to > >be about 3.6. This was based upon 6 g's at 1375 and 4.4 at 1650. > >This, of course, assumes that the wing is the limiting > structural item. > > > >I also never plan to land above 1650 lbs. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Extended Length IP question
Mike, Take some tape and cover the top 1-1/2" of your stick and go fly your airplane, keeping your hand below the tape to see how the stick forces will be with the reduced stick length. Jim Streit 90073 fuse N223RV(at)aol.com wrote: > > >I am considering re-doing my RV-4 panel and lowering the bottom edge of it by >about 1.5 inches. I have mocked up a panel in my plane and I can get in and >out OK and I don't hit my knees on it, but I am worried about taking 1.5" off >of my stick. I am 5'10" and I have by rudder pedals as far forward as I can. > >Has anyone out there done this, and if so how is the stick at 1.5" lower? >Any help would be greatly appreciated. >Thanks >-Mike Kraus >N223RV Flying, approaching 100 hours > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)rogers.com>
Subject: RV-4 Extended Length IP question
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Mike I have an RV4 that I built with an extension to the panel of about 2 inches. I did not remake the whole panel, I just bent up a 2" wide panel with flanges on both sides and riveted it to the bottom of the stock panel. I cut the stick as necessary to fit underneath, and have had no problems. I am 5"9" and have no trouble getting in and out. Some of my taller friends do hit their knees on the bottom of the panel though. I think I have some photo's around if you are interested. Email off list if you would like to see them. Joe Hine RV4 C-FYTQ I am considering re-doing my RV-4 panel and lowering the bottom edge of it by about 1.5 inches. I have mocked up a panel in my plane and I can get in and out OK and I don't hit my knees on it, but I am worried about taking 1.5" off of my stick. I am 5'10" and I have by rudder pedals as far forward as I can. Has anyone out there done this, and if so how is the stick at 1.5" lower? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Mike Kraus N223RV Flying, approaching 100 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-4 Extended Length IP question
Date: Sep 30, 2003
My old RV-4 had a longer stick than my new one and I liked the longer stick better. Not a big deal at all, but when you lower the panel you reduce the market that you can sell your airplane to when you are thru with it, cause us tall guys won't be buying it. I would try to figure a different solution. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Streit" <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Extended Length IP question > > Mike, Take some tape and cover the top 1-1/2" of your stick and go fly > your airplane, keeping your hand below the tape to see how the stick > forces will be with the reduced stick length. > > Jim Streit > 90073 > fuse > > N223RV(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > > > >I am considering re-doing my RV-4 panel and lowering the bottom edge of it by > >about 1.5 inches. I have mocked up a panel in my plane and I can get in and > >out OK and I don't hit my knees on it, but I am worried about taking 1.5" off > >of my stick. I am 5'10" and I have by rudder pedals as far forward as I can. > > > >Has anyone out there done this, and if so how is the stick at 1.5" lower? > >Any help would be greatly appreciated. > >Thanks > >-Mike Kraus > >N223RV Flying, approaching 100 hours > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 30, 2003
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel lines 6A
Dave, ... I think that the preferred Teflon hoses are not life limited, and are easy to obtain from race car supply places ready made and pressure tested.... http://www.anplumbing.com/shop/ gil in Tucson > >Before arbitrarily replacing metal lines with hoses remember that >besides being a lot more expensive, they are also life limited and WILL >have to be replaced someday while metal lines usually last the life of >the airplane. Hoses are also more susceptible to leaks with age and are >usually used only where there is likely to be flexing that would damage >a solid line. I know using a hose would be easier but who said this was >going to be easy? 8>) > >Dave EAA Technical Counselor > >DWENSING(at)aol.com wrote: > > > > >In a message dated 9/30/03 1:01:07 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > >kempthornes(at)earthlink.net writes: > > > > > > > > > >>The 6a is similar. I made several sets of fuel lines, the ones inside > >> > >> > >>>fuse from valve to fuse wall, before I got an acceptable setup. If I > were > >>>to do it again I would use fuel hoses. More money but easier and tougher > >>> > >>> > > > >I agree with Hal. Had the same experience of fabricating several pieces > >before was satisfied. Plus, the lines down near the back of your feet are > >susceptible to getting hit by your heels. Flexible lines would take more > abuse. > >Dale Ensing > > > > > > > > > > RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Electric elevator trim
Date: Sep 30, 2003
Allan, My platenuts protruded also, it's not a big deal. I was able to grind one or two back flush with the skin. I believe anyone doing this job on any current kit will run into the same issue. E-mail me offline if anyone would care for a picture. This doesn't look bad, you only need to grind one or two to allow for the servo to slide into the elevator. Karie Daniel RV-7A QB ----- Original Message ----- From: <Allan.James(at)hstna.com> Subject: RV-List: Electric elevator trim > > Listers, > > I just completed the installation of the elevator electric trim. > After riveting everything together, I found where the platenuts overlapped > > the opening in the reinforcement plate prevented me from inserting the > cover plate with the servo. I ended up grinding down five of the plate > nuts where the overhung the opening. I don't recall seeing any mention of > > this in the archives or any where else. Has anyone else run into this, or > > did I do something wrong? > > Thanks, > Allan James > Michigan > RV7A - Emp - Elevators > N322AR > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 stick length
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Mike, I had to lower mine 1" when I installed all my equipment for IFR. The panel being lower didn't bother me, but the stick being lower did. You'll get used to it, but it won't be the same as it was before. I installed the Infinity grip so I wouldn't have to lower the panel more than an inch. If you can achieve what you want without shortening the stick, I'd do it. I flew mine 1050 hours before I shortened the stick, so I was used to the lighter feel of the controls. But like I said, you'll get used to it. Jim Nolan N444JN used to it ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Emmanuelle Richard <frenchflyer21(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: velcro peeling off
If you use the "sticky back" velcro, it tends to lift up, especially when it's hot (the heat softens the adhesive). If you use standard velcro and bond it in place with glue, you won't have this problem. On the cushions, you bond and stitch as well. Velcro sell a glue or you can use yellow glue. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
>Yes, but we are not talking about that. We are talking about a specific >aircraft which, at certain weights, is allowed to go to +6 gs. Your >example above would apply if someone were saying "ok, then at 1300 lbs I >can go to 7 g's". No one is suggesting that. I was asking that specific question. If we can say it is ok to have an 1800 lbs gross weight at 4.4 Gs, then can we have 6.6 Gs at 1250 lbs? If the G loading graph is linear (I don't know if it is) then we should be able to pull more Gs at less than aerobatic weight. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Van's on Weight and Balance
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Contrary to my earlier post regarding GW on the 6A, Van's is taking a different approach on the RV-10. Below is a re post from the RV-10 list. This is from Ken Krueger. Not sure why he is so adament about this, maybe due to the CG or gear strength, who knows. Anyway, here it is for kicks! Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com The maximum gross weight of the RV-10 is 2700 lb. PERIOD!!! Every single ounce of "extras" that you add to the empty weight will deduct not only from performance but also from the amount of people, fuel, and baggage that you can carry without exceeding 2700 lb. Please, please don't give in to the temptation to operate your RV-10 outside of our weight and CG recommendations. You are asking for our recommendations about all the extras you are considering therefore I believe that you value our inputs...please show that you indeed value our inputs by adhering to our gross weight, CG, and engine output recommendations. My best advice to you and others is to simply build the aircraft as designed and don't try to make the RV-10 into something that it isn't. Thanks for your interest in the RV-10! So long for now. Ken Krueger, Engineer Van's Aircraft ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Re: Kit Caution
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Hi Geoff: There are so many advantages now in getting a new kit from Van's. The pre-punched kits are a joy to build, and the drawings are such an improvement over the earlier ones. You would be starting the process from the very beginning and have the advantage of all the benefits that come with working with the great institution that Van's Aircraft has become. As to deciding what type of aircraft to build take a look at the number of RV's flying now, somewhere in the area of 3500 and over 7000 starts. For me one of the most important factors in choosing an RV is protecting my investment. Compare the resale value of the RV's to some others. This rv-list alone would be part of my decision to build one. Pick the model you like and order the kit. Eustace Bowhay Blind B.C. ----- Original Message ----- From: <Gkb5577(at)aol.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Kit Caution > > Good advice . Perhaps I should just get a new kit from Vans? Geoff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Bob wrote: > I was asking that specific question. If we can say it is ok to have an > 1800 lbs gross weight at 4.4 Gs, then can we have 6.6 Gs at 1250 lbs? The answer is "maybe." It would depend on the airplane, and what that airplane has been designed for. Using your numbers, here's an example why this might not be safe: Let's say you have an engine hanging on the front of the airplane that weighs about 200# (ballpark for an O-3x0). At 1800# gross and at 4.4G, that engine will pull on the engine mount with a force of (200)(4.4) = 880#. At 1250# and at 6.6G, the load on the engine mount would be (200)(6.6) = 1320#. Note that the weight of the aircraft itself does not factor into the equation. So that's 50% more load on the engine mount, despite being at 70% of your gross weight. *If* the engine mount is designed to take 6.6G, then you're okay. But if the airplane is designed to be most efficient at 1800#/4.4G, the designer would probably have saved the extra weight that would be needed to make a 6.6G engine mount. > If the G loading graph is linear (I don't know if it is) then we should be > able to pull more Gs at less than aerobatic weight. The G loading graph *can* be linear, but frequently isn't due to limitations of individual components. > Bob > RV6 NightFighter -RB4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Gross weight
Date: Oct 01, 2003
There have been some comments about using 1800 lbs. as a gross weight on the RV 6 -6A. I may have in some way been responsible for some if them. When I put my 6 on floats I worked closely with Van on this installation. I set the gross at 1800 to accommodate the extra weight of the floats. The gross weight increase is normal on most float installations as the floats tend to carry most of their weight in flight. In discussing this with Van he agreed with this on the basis of the approval was for floats only and that our engineers were also in agreement. When the floats are removed it reverts back to the 1600 lb GW. I personally would go with what Van's recommends, who else is better qualified to set this weight. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Maybe I missed something in this discussion about loads on various elements of an RV but if the same airplane is considered with variations in the load carried then doesn't it make sense that the loads on the wing spar, tail spar etc are more important than those on the landing gear? Apparently the gross weight of 1375 is acceptable with a limit of 6G's. Would make sense to calculate thus? weight * G's = load then 1375 * 6.0 = 4.4 * utility_gross_weight 1375 * 6.0 = 4.4 * 1875 In 30 years of flying I don't believe I have ever been at 4.4 so with care it seems that a takeoff with 1800 is safe. Have I just missed reading about the effects of gross weight on performance? K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: NEED PROP
vansairforce I am posting this for a friend of a friend... He needs a wood prop for a 160HP O320 with 3/8" bolts for his RV-4... He is not on this list, so please contact him off list: email: firepilot(at)yahoo.com cell: 805-448-3078 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: Wing Dip
From: Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com>
I have my wings mounted on the fuselage. I just happened to lay a straight edge on the wing main spar down to rear spar and found I have a 1/4 to 3/8" dip in the wing. Anyone experience this. Joe RV9A Installing flaps and ailerons. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Dip
I am guessing that you did not do this on top of a rib right? This is happening between the ribs right? That "dip" sounds normal, place the wing out in the sun and just watch the skins start to expand and sometimes even pop. Place it in the garage and then look at it when it is cool. There will be a big difference, this is affectionally known as "oil canning". > >I have my wings mounted on the fuselage. I just happened to lay a >straight edge on the wing main spar down to rear spar and found I have a >1/4 to 3/8" dip in the wing. Anyone experience this. > > >Joe RV9A Installing flaps and ailerons. > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-4 stick length
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Hi mike, Would recessing the additional lower panel section about 3/4" help you reduce the amount you need to shorten the control stick? Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-4 stick length > > Mike, > I had to lower mine 1" when I installed all my equipment for IFR. The panel being lower didn't bother me, but the stick being lower did. You'll get used to it, but it won't be the same as it was before. I installed the Infinity grip so I wouldn't have to lower the panel more than an inch. If you can achieve what you want without shortening the stick, I'd do it. I flew mine 1050 hours before I shortened the stick, so I was used to the lighter feel of the controls. But like I said, you'll get used to it. > Jim Nolan > N444JN > used to it > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Wing Dip
Date: Oct 01, 2003
When you say "dip" do you mean it dips down mid-span and then rises toward the tip? Did you jig your wings when assembling them? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joe Wiza" <planejoel(at)juno.com> Subject: RV-List: Wing Dip > > I have my wings mounted on the fuselage. I just happened to lay a > straight edge on the wing main spar down to rear spar and found I have a > 1/4 to 3/8" dip in the wing. Anyone experience this. > > > Joe RV9A Installing flaps and ailerons. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Maybe that's the way it is with the DARs and FAA inspectors in your area, but I still feel it's bum advice to a new guy on the list to say: sure go out and buy any kit in any state of completeness, you will still get your Repairman's cert. Additionally, he'll in all likelyhood also need the previous builder's logs to prove that 51% was indeed built for "education and recreation", in order to get the airplane certified as amaturbuilt. My recommendation of contacting the FAA or DAR before buying the partially built kit still stands. I beleive you'll find the same recommendations in EAA's Sport Aviation articles and on their web site as well. Finn Jerry Springer wrote: > >Finn, I would hope that if you are the one the finishes the airplane you >would learn all there is to >know about the airplane you are building. Once again the repairman's >certificate has nothing >to do with the 51% rule. I could buy a half finished airplane with 5 >other guys and never do >any work on it and still receive the repairman's certificate. > >Jerry > >Finn Lassen wrote: > > > >> >>Let's say you go out and buy a kit that's 90% complete. How are you >>going to convince the DAR or FAA inspector that you qualify for the >>repairman's certificate? In other words, that you have the neccessary >>skills to determine if the aircraft is in airworthy condition when doing >>the annual conditional inspection? >>I'm sure that some DARs or FAA inspectors would refuse to issue (or >>recommend, if the DARs don't issue) you the repairman cert, if all you >>did, for example, was to fit the canopy and cowling to finish the airplane. >> >>Finn >> >>Jerry Springer wrote: >> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: W&B on a -6A
Date: Oct 01, 2003
You cannot do a linear extrapolation to figure out the G limits on our airframes. Why??? Because most (all?) of the additional weight isn't evenly distributed. Instead, it is concentrated in the fuselage - big engine, constant speed prop, B-747 panel, lotsa bags, bubba sized people, etc. This causes a non-linear increase in wing bending moments (and probably other structural issues as well). If you could spread that weight out evenly along the wings, you wouldn't have a bending moment problem, but you can't strap bags or bubba to the wing, so there is no option for evenly distributing additional weight. Imagine this: Take a 8' 2"x4" board. Put your sawhorses 7'6" apart and lay the 2x4 across the sawhorses so it is supported at each end. Lets say the 2x4 holds up when you spread ten 10 pound weights evenly across it. When you add the 11th weight, the 2x4 breaks. Ok, you've established that that 2x4 can hold 100 evenly distributed pounds. What happens if you put all 100 pounds in the dead center of another 2x4? It breaks, right? How about if you only stack 90 pounds in the center? That breaks the 2x4 too... 80 pounds - a broken 2x4...Why? Because the load is concentrated and this increases bending moments. This is the same scenario we get into with our airplanes when we start playing games with useful load - the extra load is concentrated, not evenly distributed... Do people fly Van's designs over the suggested gross? Sure. Do I? Yep. My RV-6's gross is set at 1675 pounds. Do I have any idea what load factor my airplane has at that weight? Nope, and neither does anyone unless someone has done the appropriate finite element analyis on the entire aircraft. I know Van's has done the analysis on the wing, but I've never seen anything that says they have done the analysis for the whole airframe. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: W&B on a -6A > > Maybe I missed something in this discussion about loads on various elements > of an RV but if the same airplane is considered with variations in the load > carried then doesn't it make sense that the loads on the wing spar, tail > spar etc are more important than those on the landing gear? > > Apparently the gross weight of 1375 is acceptable with a limit of > 6G's. Would make sense to calculate thus? > > weight * G's = load > > then > > 1375 * 6.0 = 4.4 * utility_gross_weight > > 1375 * 6.0 = 4.4 * 1875 > > In 30 years of flying I don't believe I have ever been at 4.4 so with care > it seems that a takeoff with 1800 is safe. > > Have I just missed reading about the effects of gross weight on performance? > > > K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne > RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. > PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: Canopy Frame Fit
I am building an RV-7 and I was wondering how close I need to be on the canopy frame fit. Vans says 1/16 inch inside all the way around. I am able to get 1/16" on all the areas, but on the back area arc piece, it is supposed to be 1/16" lower than the back top skin. The best I can get is about even on the left side and 1/8" low on the right side. It seems no matter what I do, I cannot get it better than this without severely throwing off all the other dimensions. Will I be able to compensate for this mismatch, or will it be an issue? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. -Mike Kraus ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N223RV(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location
I'm looking to mount my intercom Jacks and was wondering where others put theirs and whether the liked the location or not. I have seen some with them mounted on the top of the bulkhead that supports the seat backs above the flap motor, but I think this would be more in the way when you wanted to reach back for something. Anyone have an opinion on the best location? Thanks -Mike K ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Could you point these EAA recommendations out to me? Cy Galley Editor, EAA Safety Programs cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV frame of mind > > Maybe that's the way it is with the DARs and FAA inspectors in your > area, but I still feel it's bum advice to a new guy on the list to say: > sure go out and buy any kit in any state of completeness, you will still > get your Repairman's cert. > > Additionally, he'll in all likelyhood also need the previous builder's > logs to prove that 51% was indeed built for "education and recreation", > in order to get the airplane certified as amaturbuilt. > > My recommendation of contacting the FAA or DAR before buying the > partially built kit still stands. > I beleive you'll find the same recommendations in EAA's Sport Aviation > articles and on their web site as well. > > Finn > > Jerry Springer wrote: > > > > >Finn, I would hope that if you are the one the finishes the airplane you > >would learn all there is to > >know about the airplane you are building. Once again the repairman's > >certificate has nothing > >to do with the 51% rule. I could buy a half finished airplane with 5 > >other guys and never do > >any work on it and still receive the repairman's certificate. > > > >Jerry > > > >Finn Lassen wrote: > > > > > > > >> > >>Let's say you go out and buy a kit that's 90% complete. How are you > >>going to convince the DAR or FAA inspector that you qualify for the > >>repairman's certificate? In other words, that you have the neccessary > >>skills to determine if the aircraft is in airworthy condition when doing > >>the annual conditional inspection? > >>I'm sure that some DARs or FAA inspectors would refuse to issue (or > >>recommend, if the DARs don't issue) you the repairman cert, if all you > >>did, for example, was to fit the canopy and cowling to finish the airplane. > >> > >>Finn > >> > >>Jerry Springer wrote: > >> > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rich Crosley" <dirtrider(at)qnet.com>
Subject: Catto Props
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Those running a Catto Prop --are you happy with the prop and the performance? I am building an RV-8 with a O-360 and considering a fixed pitch prop, Sensenich or the three bladed Catto looks great. Any thoughts? Rich Crosley Palmdale,CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Subject: Re: Wing Dip
Hi-Some builders have heated the wing skins when riviting,then they don't oil can-Tom Tom Whelan Whelan Farms Airport President EAA Chapter 1097 wfact01(at)aol.com 249 Hard Hill Road North PO Box 426 Bethlehem, CT 06751 Tel: 203-266-5300 Fax: 202-266-5140 EAA Technical/Flight Advisor RV-8 540 LYC (Taxi Tests) S-51-D Mustang Turbine (Under Construction) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FIBERGLASS NOW OR LATER
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Oct 01, 2003
All, What's the prefferred time to fiberglass tips on some of the newer kits/ Is it best to do it now while i am finishing the emp, or should i wait and do it all at once/ Anyone wish they would have done it one way or another/ Also, one person told me that his fiberglass significantly warped over time and he had to buy new when he finally did the fiberglass...anyone else have that experience/ thanks, scott 7a emp/wings http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fiberglass Now or Later
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Oct 01, 2003
For those that have been through it...if you were to do it again, would you fiberglass the emp tips when you finish that particular kit? Or, would you wait and do it all at the same time later? I have heard that the tips can warp over time...anyone else have that experience? What's the preferred method? Thanks, Scott 7A Emp/Wings http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/ Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Frame Fit
Date: Oct 01, 2003
Sure, you'll be able to compensate for the mismatch. It'll just mean more work fitting the aft skirts. What you need to ask yourself is whether you're building a good airplane, or if you want an Oshkosh award winner. Most folks I know start out to build an Oshkosh winner, but after a few dozen smiley's and other cosmetic blurs, they realize that a nice airplane is good enough, and Oshkosh award winners are for the gifted, experienced, and/or obsessed builder... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: <N223RV(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Canopy Frame Fit > > I am building an RV-7 and I was wondering how close I need to be on the > canopy frame fit. Vans says 1/16 inch inside all the way around. I am able to get > 1/16" on all the areas, but on the back area arc piece, it is supposed to be > 1/16" lower than the back top skin. The best I can get is about even on the > left side and 1/8" low on the right side. It seems no matter what I do, I > cannot get it better than this without severely throwing off all the other > dimensions. > > Will I be able to compensate for this mismatch, or will it be an issue? > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > -Mike Kraus > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 01, 2003
From: Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Catto Props
Rich, When I bought my RV-4 it came with a 3-bladed Catto. I've only had the airplane for about 60 hours, but the logbook shows about 500+ with the Catto. No problems. One thing though... this older prop has no leading edge protectors. Thus, NO erosion protection in rain. Craig Catto now puts LE protectors on his props. Also, a product called Prop Guard is now on the street. I haven't applied it to my prop yet, but a fellow RV-4 pilot named Rob "SmokeyRay" Ray has, and he absolutely swears by it. I think Craig Catto will add it to your prop if you ask for it; if not, you can (and should) do it yourself. Pedro Rich Crosley wrote: Those running a Catto Prop --are you happy with the prop and the performance? I am building an RV-8 with a O-360 and considering a fixed pitch prop, Sensenich or the three bladed Catto looks great. Any thoughts? Rich Crosley Palmdale,CA --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: FIBERGLASS NOW OR LATER
Date: Oct 01, 2003
I had my wing tips on a shelf laying flat for about 7 months. When I took them off one had a really nice flat spot, the other was fine. I took some towels and foam and stuffed the entire tip for about a week and the flat spot disappeared. The smaller parts are stiff enough that you shouldn't get any distortion but when storing the wing tips place them with the open end (side that attaches to the wing) facing down. Don't lay them on the side. Same with the cowling and other large parts. As far as when to do it.....doesn't really matter. Karie Daniel RV-7A Sammamish, WA. ----- Original Message ----- From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> Subject: RV-List: FIBERGLASS NOW OR LATER > > > All, > > What's the prefferred time to fiberglass tips on some of the newer kits/ Is it best to do it now while i am finishing the emp, or should i wait and do it all at once/ Anyone wish they would have done it one way or another/ Also, one person told me that his fiberglass significantly warped over time and he had to buy new when he finally did the fiberglass...anyone else have that experience/ > > thanks, > scott > 7a emp/wings > http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/ > > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com > The most personalized portal on the Web! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Skyforce Moving Map on ebay
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Same as King prior to Skymap's aquisition by king: Item number: 2434561399 Currently at $480 SKYFORCE CM2001 Color Skymap FEATURES: Voltage required: 10-30 Vdc 6 month factory warranty Americas database card Database date: 10-97 Sofware version: V2.09 Tray and connector are not included, but are availble from Bendix/King at an additional charge. SV condition Exceptional value! Law that forbid ownership of arms disarm only those who are neither inclined, nor determined to commit crimes. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants. They serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man. --Thomas Jefferson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location
On my -6A, I put the headphone jacks on the main panel on the little stub that sticks out below the longeron on each side. This is otherwise probably just wasted space plus the wiring can be more or less permanently run from the jacks to the panel mounted radio. IOW, the panel can be removed without disturbing this wiring. If the back of the cockpit location is used then the jacks have to be removed and the wiring unthread from the structure or some sort of plug arrangement has to be made up to remove the panel. I use a few bits of velcro to hold the headphone wires up out of the way to go back and then loop forward. The aft bulkhead position avoids this. Almost everything in life is a compromise and this is too. I choose to come down on the side of slightly easier maintenance. Jim Oke RV-6A C-GKGZ Winnipeg, MB ----- Original Message ----- From: <N223RV(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location > > I'm looking to mount my intercom Jacks and was wondering where others put > theirs and whether the liked the location or not. I have seen some with them > mounted on the top of the bulkhead that supports the seat backs above the flap > motor, but I think this would be more in the way when you wanted to reach back > for something. > > Anyone have an opinion on the best location? Thanks > -Mike K > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Warren W Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com>
Subject: Rib to Spar Rivets--Thank You
Many thanks to all those who have written about my rib to spar rivet problem. Things that will be changed when I try again are. 1, A 3X rebuilt rivet gun just ordered from The Yard 2, A long straight rivet set. 3, I will also try to find some hockey shin tape to put on the rivet head. 4, Turn the spars upside down so that I will be looking at the factory head during the riveting process. 5, Remove some the wooden spar supports so the spar will flex slightly during riveting. 6, Try a starting pressure of about 40 psi. 7, Smooth out some of the smileys on the ribs. The spar was undamaged. 8, For some reason I had thought that the flow valve hat comes with a gun kit was ball valve. So in the future I will turn it more than 180 degrees. I had thought the valve was rather ineffectual. 9, Make a small gauge to locate the center of the rivet, and remove the bad rivet heads. 10, Then drive out the bad rivets with a punch. I also liked the exhaust pipe anti rotate tool, which I will probably try at some time. Thanks again for the many words of encouragement. My confidence has been restored. Warren http://ahyup.com 90454 (Rib to Spar Rivets, again) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Transponder antenna mounted inside cowl?
The archives make a few references to people who were going to try this, but no mention of the results. Anyone mounted the transponder antenna in under the cowl? Thoughts on this? Jeff Point RV-6 panel, wiring Milwaukee WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne R. Couture" <commando@cox-internet.com>
Subject: Re: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Where can I get the info on this unit and have you compared it with the PS 501? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted > > I us the AA-83 by NAT > > This is the best unit by far IMHO. I have used the PS engineering's units > and was very happy with the PM7000B, but just for an intercom the AA-83 is > by far the best for the Van's aircraft line and the other small noisy ones > like Kitfox. > > Sincerely, > > Noel Simmons > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > Phone: 866-859-0390 > Fax: 406-538-6574 > noel(at)blueskyaviation.net > www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted > > > Listers, > I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The consensus > seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the best. The are also the > most expensive. I'd like to know what listers using the Flightcom 403S or > 403D think of these units. Is anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other > units I should look at? > Charlie Kuss > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: Re: fabric type seats
Bert: I am in the furniture manufacturing business and getting ready to start making RV seats ... having produced several sets already. Most of the fabrics that seem applicable to aircraft seats have a lot of polyester, rayon and cotton in them. They are a textured fabric. Very durable and rugged. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 148 hrs Bert: I am in the furniture manufacturing business and getting ready to start making RV seats ... having produced several sets already. Most of the fabrics that seem applicable to aircraft seats have a lot of polyester, rayon and cotton in them. They are a textured fabric. Very durable and rugged. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 148 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Finn Lassen <finnlassen(at)netzero.net>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Sure, here's a couple: http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/How%20to%20get%20Your%20Repairman%20Certificate.html I am thinking about buying a 95% complete project from another builder, will I be able to get a Repairman Certificate? If you, as the final builder, can convince the FAA or DAR inspector that you have the requisite skill necessary for determining whether the aircraft is in condition for safe operation, the inspector should give you the Repairman Certificate. http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/selecting/articles/The%20Decision%20is%20Made...Now%20What.html#TopOfPage Now that we have prepared our workspace and ourselves for the task at hand we are ready to being the actual building of component parts. Remember to establish a relationship with a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative) or an FAA inspector at this point. Cy and Jerry, I'm really surprised that you don't agree with me. Why would you want a newbie to charge ahead, dump a lot of $ into a nearly completed kit, only to find that he's denied his repairman cert because he can't "convince the FAA or DAR inspector that you have the requisite skill...", when he could have gotten with the DAR or FAA inspector before buying the kit and worked it out? Finn Cy Galley wrote: > >Could you point these EAA recommendations out to me? >Cy Galley > > Sure, here's a couple: http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/How%20to%20get%20Your%20Repairman%20Certificate.html I am thinking about buying a 95% complete project from another builder, will I be able to get a Repairman Certificate? If you, as the final builder, can convince the FAA or DAR inspector that you have the requisite skill necessary for determining whether the aircraft is in condition for safe operation, the inspector should give you the Repairman Certificate. http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/selecting/articles/The%20Decision%20is%20Made...Now%20What.html#TopOfPage Now that we have prepared our workspace and ourselves for the task at hand we are ready to being the actual building of component parts. Remember to establish a relationship with a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative) or an FAA inspector at this point. Cy and Jerry, I'm really surprised that you don't agree with me. Why would you want a newbie to charge ahead, dump a lot of $ into a nearly completed kit, only to find that he's denied his repairman cert because he can't "convince the FAA or DAR inspector that you have the requisite skill...", when he could have gotten with the DAR or FAA inspector before buying the kit and worked it out? Finn Cy Galley wrote:
-- RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" cgalley(at)qcbc.org Could you point these EAA recommendations out to me? Cy Galley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: re- alternator RPM / speed
Date: Oct 02, 2003
This morning I recieved this information from a fellow who states the following about alternator speed / RPM. "'from a person who has access to the ND drawings- Max rpm is 18000 rpm, rated output is achieved at 5000 rpm. Minimum rpm for any output is 1500 rpm.'" He hopes that this should convey the essential information to those people concerned about overspeeding alternators. At his request, I have chosen to provided the above information in the manner he requested, It is hoped that this will be helpful information in the archives. Jim in Kelowna This morning I recieved this information from a fellow who statesthe following about alternator speed / RPM. "'from a person who has access to the ND drawings- Max rpm is 18000 rpm, rated output is achieved at 5000 rpm. Minimum rpm for any output is 1500 rpm.'" He hopes that this should convey the essential information to those people concerned about overspeeding alternators. At his request, I have chosen to provided the above information in the manner he requested, It is hoped that this will be helpful information in the archives. Jim in Kelowna ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Now or Later
>For those that have been through it...if you were to do it again, would >you fiberglass the emp tips when you finish that particular kit? Or, >would you wait and do it all at the same time later? I have heard that >the tips can warp over time...anyone else have that experience? What's >the preferred method? Fiberglass when it is convenient and warm. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: RV frame of mind
Date: Oct 02, 2003
I'm sorry but I subscribe the positive idea that the glass is half full. Not getting a Limited Repairman's isn't the end of the world. One can still do all the maintenance and have the use of the airplane, you just have to get an A&P to sign it off. Now if the person has much building experience, the EAA statement that you quote still permits you to get the Certificate. But as you say, you might check with your DAR before purchase if the certificate is that important. Many RVs are sold after completion and then require the use of an A&P if the builder with the certificate will not do the conditional. It can't be that big a deal as these sales go for really big bucks. Have a friend that has built several prize winners and then sells when he gets the next plane finished. I know he doesn't do any conditional inspections after that. The certificate isn't that big a deal. If it was, these projects would sell at a loss instead of $120 grand and up. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Finn Lassen" <finnlassen(at)netzero.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV frame of mind > > > Sure, here's a couple: > >
http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/How%20to%20get%20Your%20Repairman%20Certificate.html > > I am thinking about buying a 95% complete project from another builder, > will I be able to get a Repairman Certificate? > If you, as the final builder, can convince the FAA or DAR inspector that > you have the requisite skill necessary for determining whether the > aircraft is in condition for safe operation, the inspector should give > you the Repairman Certificate. > > http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/selecting/articles/The%20Decision%20is%20Made...Now%20What.html#TopOfPage > Now that we have prepared our workspace and ourselves for the task at > hand we are ready to being the actual building of component parts. > Remember to establish a relationship with a DAR (Designated > Airworthiness Representative) or an FAA inspector at this point. > > Cy and Jerry, I'm really surprised that you don't agree with me. Why > would you want a newbie to charge ahead, dump a lot of $ into a nearly > completed kit, only to find that he's denied his repairman cert because > he can't "convince the FAA or DAR inspector that you have the requisite > skill...", when he could have gotten with the DAR or FAA inspector > before buying the kit and worked it out? > > Finn > > Cy Galley wrote: > > > > >Could you point these EAA recommendations out to me? > >Cy Galley > > > > > > > > > > > > Sure, here's a couple: > > http://members.eaa.org/home/homebuilders/faq/Ho w%20to%20get%20Your%20Repairman%20Certificate.html > > I am thinking about buying a 95% complete project from another builder, > will I be able to get a Repairman Certificate? > If you, as the final builder, can convince the FAA or DAR inspector > that you have the requisite skill necessary for determining whether the > aircraft is in condition for safe operation, the inspector should give > you the Repairman Certificate. > > http://members.eaa.org/home/ho mebuilders/selecting/articles/The%20Decision%20is%20Made...Now%20What.html#T opOfPage > Now that we have prepared our workspace and > ourselves for the task at hand we are ready to being the actual > building of component parts. Remember to establish a relationship with > a DAR (Designated Airworthiness Representative) or an FAA inspector at > this point. > > Cy and Jerry, I'm really surprised that you don't agree with me. Why > would you want a newbie to charge ahead, dump a lot of $ into a nearly > completed kit, only to find that he's denied his repairman cert because > he can't "convince the FAA or DAR inspector > that you have the requisite skill...", when he could have gotten with > the DAR or FAA inspector before buying the kit and worked it out? > > Finn > > Cy Galley wrote: >
cite="mid200310020241.h922fZ931416(at)matronics.com"> > -- RV-List message posted by: "Cy Galley" cgalley(at)qcbc.org > > Could you point these EAA recommendations out to me? > Cy Galley > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Delee & Pete" <4680(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Manual elevator trim placard
Date: Oct 02, 2003
I am looking for a source for a placard for my manual elevator trim. I am looking for a source for a placard for my manual elevator trim. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Mine were in the baggage compartment. The forwad side panel, where the flap arm exits the fuselage, if you can picture that panel. I put them on the top of that panel. Works well, because the headset cord just hangs behind you, over your left shoulder (pilot) and over the right shoulder (pax). Easy and out of the way. One thing I did not want is heasdset wires in my lap or around the controls in anyway. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Oke" <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location > > On my -6A, I put the headphone jacks on the main panel on the little stub > that sticks out below the longeron on each side. This is otherwise probably > just wasted space plus the wiring can be more or less permanently run from > the jacks to the panel mounted radio. IOW, the panel can be removed without > disturbing this wiring. If the back of the cockpit location is used then the > jacks have to be removed and the wiring unthread from the structure or some > sort of plug arrangement has to be made up to remove the panel. > > I use a few bits of velcro to hold the headphone wires up out of the way to > go back and then loop forward. The aft bulkhead position avoids this. > > Almost everything in life is a compromise and this is too. I choose to come > down on the side of slightly easier maintenance. > > Jim Oke > RV-6A C-GKGZ > Winnipeg, MB > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <N223RV(at)aol.com> > To: ; ; > > Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location > > > > > > I'm looking to mount my intercom Jacks and was wondering where others put > > theirs and whether the liked the location or not. I have seen some with > them > > mounted on the top of the bulkhead that supports the seat backs above the > flap > > motor, but I think this would be more in the way when you wanted to reach > back > > for something. > > > > Anyone have an opinion on the best location? Thanks > > -Mike K > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com>
Subject: Re: baffling question? mounting oil cooler
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Phil I finished my baffles a few days ago and was as puzzled as you are. Used the stiffener out of the box with the bend at 90 degrees. It all fitted well using the standard Vans supplied oil cooler. Can only assume the instructions were for an earlier iteration. Neil Henderson UK RV9 -A Phil Ifinished my baffles a few days ago and was as puzzled as you are.Used the stiffener out of the box with the bend at 90 degrees. It all fitted well using the standard Vans supplied oil cooler. Can only assume the instructions were for an earlier iteration. Neil Henderson UK RV9 -A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net>
Subject: Stereo intercom opinions wanted
Date: Oct 02, 2003
I sent you information on the AA-83 directly. As far as a comparison with the PM501! There is none. Similar to comparing Yugo's with Aston Martin's, they will both get you there but you wont get any on the way in the Yugo. Noel -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne R. Couture Subject: Re: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted <commando@cox-internet.com> Where can I get the info on this unit and have you compared it with the PS 501? Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted > > I us the AA-83 by NAT > > This is the best unit by far IMHO. I have used the PS engineering's units > and was very happy with the PM7000B, but just for an intercom the AA-83 is > by far the best for the Van's aircraft line and the other small noisy ones > like Kitfox. > > Sincerely, > > Noel Simmons > Blue Sky Aviation, Inc. > Phone: 866-859-0390 > Fax: 406-538-6574 > noel(at)blueskyaviation.net > www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net> > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Stereo intercom opinions wanted > > > Listers, > I'm looking for a stereo panel mount intercom for my 8A. The consensus > seems to be that the PS Engineering intercoms are the best. The are also the > most expensive. I'd like to know what listers using the Flightcom 403S or > 403D think of these units. Is anyone using Softcom's ATC-2PS? Any other > units I should look at? > Charlie Kuss > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: Manual elevator trim placard
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Avery has a decal that fits right on the manual elevator knob that shows which way to turn it for UP or DOWN...as I recall it costs around $5 and has 'stuck' on for 8-year now with no trouble. Call them...they are listed in the Yeller pages John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Now or Later
Date: Oct 02, 2003
I have found it useful to save tasks like that (ones that are not on the critical path) to do when I am waiting on parts or tools. I got a lot of fiberglass done when some confusion about my fuselage order caused a 4 week delay in shipping. :-) Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob" <panamared2(at)brier.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass Now or Later > > > >For those that have been through it...if you were to do it again, would > >you fiberglass the emp tips when you finish that particular kit? Or, > >would you wait and do it all at the same time later? I have heard that > >the tips can warp over time...anyone else have that experience? What's > >the preferred method? > > > Fiberglass when it is convenient and warm. > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: RV9A Boost pump
From: Joe Wiza <planejoel(at)juno.com>
I found that making the 90 deg turn from the bottom of the boost pump was difficult. I re drilled the pump an additional few deg to right in order to keep from running into the floor. I guess a 45 deg elbo would help. anyway you may want to check this before mounting pump. RV9A Fuel lines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: Polished
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Remember, your aircraft is covered with pure aluminum, called Alclad, polishing will eventually remove this layer. W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Ron Bakus <bigblockron(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: C-frame hammer
--0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? thanks Ron --------------------------------- --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? thanks Ron --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: LOE3
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Where is the Saturday evening "banquet" being held? John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: C-frame hammer
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Wood. I use a hard maple mallet. Cheap, natural deadening and environmentally friendly - What more can you ask for? Greg > > > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 > > Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a > C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? > > thanks > Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fiberglass Now or Later
--0-28179566-1065138910=:82848 Scott, I worked the fiberglass components to complete each kit. There really isn't a whole lot in the empennage kit and although overkill, I made everything except the vertical tip removable with #4 screws and nutplates. Ditto for the wingtips, though I got my first real taste of epoxy work when I bonded on the optional nav night extentions and prewired/installed the nav lights. While waiting for the engine, I got the wheel pants and gear leg fairings done using Bob Snedacker's premade intersection fairings. In short, I did the fiberglass in kit stages and although many other tasks need to be done before first flight, I can say all the fiberglass work is done, including microballooning the pin holes. Actually for me, the greatest challenge was mating the upper and lower cowls because as mine came in the finish kit were far from having a good fit. Lots of cutting, bonding, and sanding there. But the experience I gained over the months working with the fiberglass components in progressively more challenging steps paid off and that job was not nearly as intimidating as it could have been had I waited to do all the fiberglass work at once. Different strokes for different folks. Rick Galati RV-6A FWF For those that have been through it...if you were to do it again, would you fiberglassthe emp tips when you finish that particular kit? Or, would you waitand do it all at the same time later? I have heard that the tips can warp overtime...anyone else have that experience? What's the preferred method?Thanks,Scott7A Emp/Wingshttp://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/ --------------------------------- --0-28179566-1065138910=:82848 Scott, I worked the fiberglass components to complete each kit. There really isn't a whole lot in the empennage kit and although overkill, I made everything except the vertical tip removable with #4 screws and nutplates. Ditto for the wingtips, though I got my first real taste of epoxy work when I bonded on the optional nav night extentions and prewired/installed the nav lights. While waiting for the engine, I got thewheel pants andgear leg fairings doneusing Bob Snedacker's premade intersection fairings. In short, I did the fiberglass in kit stages and although manyother tasksneed to be done before first flight, I can say all the fiberglass work is done, including microballooning the pin holes. Actually for me, the greatest challenge was mating the upper and lower cowlsbecause as mine came in the finish kit were far from having a good fit. Lots of cutting, bonding, and sanding there. But the ex perience I gained over the months working with thefiberglass components in progressively more challenging steps paid off and that job was not nearly as intimidating as it could have been had I waited to do all the fiberglass workat once.Different strokes for different folks. Rick Galati RV-6A FWF For those that have been through it...if you were to do it again, would you fiberglass the emp tips when you finish that particular kit? Or, would you wait and do it all at the same time later? I have heard that the tips can warp over time...anyone else have that experience? What's the preferred method? Thanks, Scott 7A Emp/Wings http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/ --0-28179566-1065138910=:82848-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: baffling question? mounting oil cooler
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Phil, I assume you mounted your oil cooler behind cyl 4 - if so I'd recommend cutting out a gasket from the excess baffle material. Not only will this provide an air seal but more importantly is will porvide vibration isolation. With over 150 hours on the second rear baffle - still no cracks in the ALu baffling. Chuck Rowbotham RV-8A- >From: "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: baffling question? mounting oil cooler >Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:09:33 +0100 > > >Phil > >I finished my baffles a few days ago and was as puzzled as you are. Used >the stiffener out of the box with the bend at 90 degrees. It all fitted >well using the standard Vans supplied oil cooler. Can only assume the >instructions were for an earlier iteration. > >Neil Henderson UK RV9 -A > > > > > > > >Phil > >Ifinished my baffles a few days >ago and was >as puzzled as you are.Used the stiffener out of the box with the >bend at >90 degrees. It all fitted well using the standard Vans supplied >oil >cooler. Can only assume the instructions were for an earlier >iteration. > >Neil Henderson UK RV9 >-A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marcel" <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com>
Subject: Re: C-frame hammer
Date: Oct 02, 2003
we used one of the wooden mallets from Avery and worked fine Marcel RV-9 and 7 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bakus" <bigblockron(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: C-frame hammer > > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 > > Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a > C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? > > thanks > Ron > > > --------------------------------- > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 > > > Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a > C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? > > thanks > Ron > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421-- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Subject: Re: Transponder antenna mounted inside cowl?
-------------------------------1065141885 Hi Jeff, I see a lack of response on the list. (It appears most RV builders feel Van's design is clean enough.) Tracy Saylor mounted his transponder antenna on the bottom of the airbox in his RV-6. I haven't seen his actual installation. You'll want to mount it in a metal ground plane the same diameter as the height of the antenna, and be clear of all metal protrusions to twice that distance. Jim Ayers RV-4 fuselage with flush mount transponder antenna installed. (you don't want to know.) -------------------------------1065141885 tutf-8"> Hi Jeff, I see a lack of responseon the list. (It appears most RV builders feel Van's design is clean enough.) Tracy Saylor mounted his transponder antenna on the bottom of the airbox in his RV-6. I haven't seen his actual installation. You'll want to mount it in a metalground plane the same diameter as the height of the antenna, and be clear of all metal protrusions to twice that distance. Jim Ayers RV-4 fuselage with flush mount transponder antenna installed. http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/01
"> (you don't want to know.) -------------------------------1065141885-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: Saturday
Date: Oct 02, 2003
On Monday I flew across those same mountains in a P-51 going from Midland TX to Prescott AZ. For 2+45 I was stretching fuel, looking for non-exsistant landing spots around the big Merlin. Sitting on a parachute my butt hurt. and knowing that much of the time there was no place to park an airplane with a 100 kt landing speed and lousy forward visibility. Then I rode a mini Van to PHX where I boarded a cattle car called a 757. I was assigned a center seat, but thankfully a thoughtful flight attendant looked at me and said, "follow me" to an asile seat. Three hours later I was in MSP where I found my -4 waiting for me at the CAF hanger. I climbed in my airplane, climbed to 6500 feet, turned Faith Hill on the CD, watched the sunset and rolled my way home!!! By far the best leg of the trip!!! I had no fear of where I would park if the fire went out. Anywhere was my answer. What a machine, what a way to travel. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal PS if any of you are in Prescott AZ this weekend, go find the beautiful P-51C with a Red tail look it over, then ask the pilot, "Wheres Doug?" Its an inside joke. Thanks > > Listers: > > On Saturday I rode around with my friend Louis in her factory built > airplane. It has the same engine my RV-6 has. She let me fly the short leg > from Ruidoso to Alamogordo, NM. First we circled around and took pictures > of the magnificent and growing Ft. Stanton Cave, not more than a couple of > miles from the Ruidoso Airport, then we flew by Sierra Blanca Peak and over > the Mescalero Apache resort, Inn of the Mountain Gods. Things went pretty > well except for me starting the let down early because of the marked speed > difference in this airplane and the RV I am used to flying. > Snip ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: FIBERGLASS NOW OR LATER
Date: Oct 02, 2003
> > As far as when to do it.....doesn't really matter...Karie Daniel > Although it doesn't really matter when you do the fiberglass I did as much fiberglassing as possible as a warm-up to building the canopy. Not a place where you would tolerate rusty skills ! ! Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop 90 plus % Complete - wiring, seats, etc. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Subject: Seat fabric considerations
Ever get a spark when you got out of your car? That spark is from you sliding your butt across the synthetic seat fabric, building up a static charge. Suppose you have a small fuel seep in your cockpit (my Interstate Cadet has a nose tank the tank right above the rudder pedals & lines & fittings in the cockpit--they have leaked a little before) & you generate a spark. A low probability event, but why ask for trouble? Nylon is one of the worst in terms of generating sparks (but one of the best in terms of wear). Don't know about others, but I do know that when we selected carpet fabric for our house there were some synthetics available that did not generate static charges--a consideration for our office computers. Richard Scott RV-9 Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location/start
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Well, as a matter of fact I do have an opinion on this subject. The way I see it, you can either have the jacks located in front of you or behind you, when you are sitted in the cockpit. In front of you, (in the panel itself/on a little tab under the panel/on a side of a bulkhead, etc.) means shorter wire runs from the jacks to your intercom/audio panel. It also means you will have the headset wires in your way when you put on the seatbelts or oxygen canulas/mask. It might also interfere with getting in and/or out of the cabin, and even with chart folding. It is in easy reach this way, and in full sight, so when you accidentaly pull on the headset wire, you see what you did and can re-plug it immediately. Behind you means the wires are out of the way. That is a big plus. They are also out of sight, which may or may not be a problem, I don't think it is. Are they within easy reach ? That is up to you. Sit in a -7 and reach up and behind you - how far can you easily go ? I think you will find that it is easier for the pilot to reach behind the co-pilot seat and vice-versa. Also, If you are talking about a slider, there is a longitudinal channel that connects the roll bar with the baggage aft wall, just under the window. This lends itself to a cover (see Dan C's site, very bottom of http://www.rvproject.com/20030925.html). In this picture you can also see where Dan has his jacks. A little too far back for me to reach, I am putting mine in that cover (Which is not a part of the origianl kit, but a simple addition). I am also putting a little 12v auto light in that cover, for finding stuff in the bag in tha baggage compartment when it's the middle of the night and you are on the camping trip, tied down by the lake... but I degress...;) A simple hook on each side of that channel can hold the headsets too, while not in use. This keeps the headsets and their wires out of the way when getting in/out of the cokpit, and does not take any space in the baggage compartment. The only down side is longer wire runs to the radios. I agree with you that the brace behind the seats is not an ideal place, I think you will find that you use it to support your weight when getting in/out of the plane. Jacks would be in the way. Just my opinion. AD. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PittsS1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Saturday
wow...watta cool guy.... wow...watta cool guy.... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Intercom Jack Location/start
Date: Oct 02, 2003
> http://www.rvproject.com/20030925.html). In this picture you can also see > where Dan has his jacks. > A little too far back for me to reach, I am putting mine in that cover > (Which is not a part of the origianl kit, but a simple addition). The reason why I didn't choose that cover as a jack location is because I didn't want headset plugs/wires interfering with loading and unloading baggage, and I basically never want to unplug 'em. I looked at recessed jacks, and in the end that channel ended up being too narrow to do anything aesthetically and physically acceptable (to me). FWIW, my priorities are/were: (a) not having any cables in the cockpit if I can help it (b) not having any interference when loading/unloading baggage I'll have little headset hangars in two spots in the baggage area...one for each headset high up on the baggage bulkhead, and also one for each in the "recess" just above the flap housings on the sidewalls. That'll give me storage options for times when I do and don't have bags/camping crap/etc. filling up the back. Here's a direct link to the photo Amit was referencing: http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030925_cover_panel.jpg There are definitely drawbacks to putting the jacks where I did...ymmv. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PittsS1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Saturday
at least a sense of humor at least a sense of humor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PittsS1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Saturday
say something say something ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nick N" <rvator(at)nicknaf.com>
Subject: Transponder antenna mounted inside cowl?
Date: Oct 02, 2003
Actually.. I do want to know... Nick *** Snip *** Jim Ayers RV-4 fuselage with flush mount transponder antenna installed. (you don't want to know.) *** End snip *** = = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: Re: Transponder antenna mounted inside cowl?
-------------------------------1065157346 In a message dated 10/02/2003 9:34:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvator(at)nicknaf.com writes: Actually.. I do want to know... Nick *** Snip *** Jim Ayers RV-4 fuselage with flush mount transponder antenna installed. (you don't want to know.) *** End snip *** I installed a MIL SPEC flush mount transponder antenna in the bottom of the fuselage. It requires an 8 3/8" diameter hole in the bottom fuselage skin. And the antenna only weighs 2 3/4 pounds. Are you sure you want to know about this? Only one other person has been interested after the weight of the antenna and the size of the antenna porthole was identified. Jim Ayers RV4 fuselage on the gear with John Harmon's mod kit No compromise - Maximum antenna performance with no drag Internal skin doublers based on Structural Repair Manuals from McDonnell Douglas and Boeing. -------------------------------1065157346 tutf-8"> In a message dated 10/02/2003 9:34:46 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rvator(at)nicknaf.com writes: -- RV-List message posted by: "Nick N" rvator(at)nicknaf.com Actually.. I do want to know... Nick *** Snip *** Jim Ayers RV-4 fuselage with flush mount transponder antenna installed. (you don't want to know.) *** End snip *** I installed a MIL SPEC flush mount transponder antenna in the bottom of the fuselage. It requires an 8 3/8" diameter hole in the bottomfuselage skin. And the antennaonly weighs 2 3/4 pounds. Are you sure you want to know about this? Onlyone other personhas been interested after the weight of the antenna andthe size of the antennaporthole was identified. Jim Ayers RV4 fuselage on the gear with John Harmon's mod kit http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/01"> No compromise - Maximumantenna performance with no drag Internal skin doublers based on Structural Repair Manualsfrom McDonnell Douglas and Boeing. -------------------------------1065157346-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)access4less.net>
Subject: Previously owned RV kits
Date: Oct 03, 2003
There has been some discussion on the list about purchase of a partially complete RV kit. I am looking at the possibility of purchasing an RV6/6A kit myself. There seems to be a wide variety of levels of completion and of completeness of the kits offered. Has anyone on the list built an RV completely from raw material, or a combination of Vans parts and raw stock? What is the parts situation with Vans? Are all of the individual parts available from them? I downloaded the parts list and there are many major items not in the list, such as the spar or gear legs. Information that I have indicates that the value of a partially completed kit can vary greatly. It depends a lot on the workmanship and the storage conditions of the material. Corrosion of unused material is a concern. If I were to consider a kit that was some distance from my home, would there be a soul so kind as to inspect the kit for me. I would be willing to offer some compensation. Is there anyone on the list that has more information to offer me on the subject of partially completed kits? The subject of the Repairman Certificate has been very thoroughly discussed so I won't go there. Thanks to the group for a very interesting and informative list, Lyle Peterson lyleap(at)access4less.net Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 02, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Seat fabric considerations
Most of us don't slide our butts across the seats in our RVs. If you have enough fuel in the cockpit to start a fire with a spark from your butt you have bigger problems. Jerry Ready to fly my RV-6 tomorrow with my new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer. *************************** Richard Scott wrote: > >Ever get a spark when you got out of your car? That spark is from you >sliding your butt across the synthetic seat fabric, building up a static >charge. Suppose you have a small fuel seep in your cockpit (my Interstate >Cadet has a nose tank the tank right above the rudder pedals & lines & >fittings in the cockpit--they have leaked a little before) & you generate a >spark. A low probability event, but why ask for trouble? > >Nylon is one of the worst in terms of generating sparks (but one of the >best in terms of wear). Don't know about others, but I do know that when >we selected carpet fabric for our house there were some synthetics >available that did not generate static charges--a consideration for our >office computers. > >Richard Scott >RV-9 Emp. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
Subject: Previously owned RV kits
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Lyle, I've just completed my second RV-6A. This kit was purchased from another builder whom had experienced a coast to coast job transfer, and was unable to complete it's construction. In my case, the horizontal stab was not closed up, so I was able to inspect all of his work. Since this is usually the first component to be fabricated, it's a good place to inspect for the workmanship of a first time builder. In the kits I've inspected over the years, I've seen the full range of good, bad, & ugly. Personally, if the visible outside workmanship of a closed up part is suspect, I would have a hard time justifying the quality of the inside construction. That all said, I'm available on the East Coast if you need any inspections performed on kits that you might find. Contact me off the list.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV 55 Hours Hm email: wstucklen1(at)cox.net Wk Email: fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com > There has been some discussion on the list about purchase of a partially complete RV kit. I am looking at the possibility of purchasing an RV6/6A kit myself. There seems to be a wide variety of levels of completion and of completeness of the kits offered. Has anyone on the list built an RV completely from raw material, or a combination of Vans parts and raw stock? What is the parts situation with Vans? Are all of the individual parts available from them? I downloaded the parts list and there are many major items not in the list, such as the spar or gear legs. Information that I have indicates that the value of a partially completed kit can vary greatly. It depends a lot on the workmanship and the storage conditions of the material. Corrosion of unused material is a concern. If I were to consider a kit that was some distance from my home, would there be a soul so kind as to inspect the kit for me. I would be willing to offer some compensation. Is there anyone on the list that has more information to offer me on the subject of partially completed kits? The subject of the Repairman Certificate has been very thoroughly discussed so I won't go there. Thanks to the group for a very interesting and informative list, Lyle Peterson lyleap(at)access4less.net Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Textor" <jack(at)personnelincorporated.com>
Subject: C-frame hammer
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Ron I bought a dead blow at Harbor Freight which has a brass head on one side and plastic on the other. I use the brass side and it works great. Jack RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: Seat fabric considerations
Date: Oct 03, 2003
> Ready to fly my RV-6 tomorrow with my new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer. > Jerry Hey Jerry, Looking for a little more crosswind rudder authority? :-) Let us know what the differences are... Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: C-frame hammer
Date: Oct 03, 2003
I've pounded on mine a lot with the plastic hammer from Avery. It works really well. Whatever you choose don't use a metal hammer. The C-frame arbor is hardened and hitting hardened steel with another piece of hardened steel is a no-no. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Canopy http://www.myrv7.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Bakus" <bigblockron(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: C-frame hammer > > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 > > Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a > C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? > > thanks > Ron > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: Paint adhesion over cured paint
Listers--Does anyone have experience with either clear Imron or clear Polane adhesion when applied over cured (eg 2 months or more) Imron or Polane and the surface not roughed up first. I know this is not recommended. Checked the archives and nothing there. Haven't done it yet, but for reasons I won't go into here, I may have to on the panel. Thanks in advance. --LeRoy Johnston in Ohio. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Paint adhesion over cured paint
Call the applicable tech line. I have found them to be a wealth of info. You would be surprised how much info is not printed. Some times you need to push them out of the "box" to get them to think about what you need. > >Listers--Does anyone have experience with either clear Imron or clear Polane >adhesion when applied over cured (eg 2 months or more) Imron or Polane and the >surface not roughed up first. I know this is not recommended. Checked the >archives and nothing there. Haven't done it yet, but for reasons I won't go >into here, I may have to on the panel. Thanks in advance. --LeRoy Johnston in >Ohio. > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DJB6A(at)cs.com
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Subject: 4 conductor shielded wire for Dynon
To all, For those of you (like me) who have been searching for 4 conductor 22 gauge shielded wire for your remote mounted Dynon Magnetometer, Wicks aircraft has special ordered 500 ft. You will need to let them know it is not in the catalogue. They expect it in next week. They will add it as a permanent item if there is a demand for it. Regards, Dave Burnham RV6A (N64FN) To all, For those of you (like me) who have been searching for 4 conductor 22 gauge shielded wire for your remote mounted Dynon Magnetometer, Wicks aircraft has special ordered 500 ft. You will need to let them know it is not in the catalogue. They expect it in next week. They will add it as a permanent item if there is a demand for it. Regards, Dave Burnham RV6A (N64FN) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: Re: Transponder antenna mounted inside cowl?
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Jim, Whatcha' buildin'.... an RV-4 that will pull +10/-10 G's ???? Chuck ----- Original Message ----- From: <LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com> > > Jim Ayers > RV4 fuselage on the gear with John Harmon's mod kit > No compromise - Maximum antenna performance with no drag > Internal skin doublers based on Structural Repair Manuals from McDonnell > Douglas and Boeing. > > -------------------------------1065157346 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: 4 conductor shielded wire for Dynon
DJB6A(at)cs.com wrote: > > > To all, > > For those of you (like me) who have been searching for 4 conductor 22 gauge > shielded wire for your remote mounted Dynon Magnetometer, Wicks aircraft has > special ordered 500 ft. You will need to let them know it is not in the > catalogue. > They expect it in next week. They will add it as a permanent item if there is > a demand for it. > > Regards, > Dave Burnham > RV6A (N64FN) Be sure you check your local electrical cable suppliers. I found a nearby outlet that had the four conductor 22g shielded cable for $0.45/ft. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
After reading the archives on the subject of fuel tank inspection plates and fuel senders, I've decided to throw away the gaskets and just proseal the inspection covers and the SW float fuel senders. The general consensus seems to be that prosealing the whole thing will be more leakproof and moderately easy to remove with a sharp putty knife if need be. I'm going to order some stainless steel socket head cap screws to use in place of the AN phillips head screws. They should be easier to remove later if need be. Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of standard socket head screws versus "button head" screws? Both use an allen wrench, but the button heads have a lower profile and are somewhat less expensive. Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when sealed with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in several years. Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 QB __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Richard Lundin <rlundin46(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: C-frame hammer
I'm currently using a dead blow hammer. Works great, and is easy on my elbow and wrist. Rick --- Ron Bakus wrote: > > > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 > > Can any one tell me which hammer works better with a > C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead blow? > > thanks > Ron > > > --------------------------------- > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421 > > > Can any one tell me which hammer works better > with a > C-Frame dimpler, hard plastic or a dead > blow? > > thanks > Ron > --0-496134999-1065131975=:54421-- > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: 4 conductor shielded wire for Dynon
Also at 0.21 per foot from these guys.... http://www.action-electronics.com/cabl-prc.htm#Shielded > > >DJB6A(at)cs.com wrote: > > > > > > To all, > > > > For those of you (like me) who have been searching for 4 conductor 22 gauge > > shielded wire for your remote mounted Dynon Magnetometer, Wicks > aircraft has > > special ordered 500 ft. You will need to let them know it is not in the > > catalogue. > > They expect it in next week. They will add it as a permanent item if > there is > > a demand for it. > > > > Regards, > > Dave Burnham > > RV6A (N64FN) > > >Be sure you check your local electrical cable suppliers. I found a >nearby outlet that had the four conductor 22g shielded cable for >$0.45/ft. > >Sam Buchanan > > Also at 0.21 per foot from these guys.... http://www.action-electronics.com/cabl-prc.htm#Shielded -- RV-List message posted by: Sam Buchanan sbuc(at)hiwaay.net DJB6A(at)cs.com wrote: -- RV-List message posted by: DJB6A(at)cs.com To all, For those of you (like me) who have been searching for 4 conductor 22 gauge shielded wire for your remote mounted Dynon Magnetometer, Wicks aircraft has special ordered 500 ft. You will need to let them know it is not in the catalogue. They expect it in next week. They will add it as a permanent item if there is a demand for it. Regards, Dave Burnham RV6A (N64FN) Be sure you check your local electrical cable suppliers. I found a nearby outlet that had the four conductor 22g shielded cable for $0.45/ft. Sam Buchanan - The RV-List Email Forum - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
Geoff Don't know if that was my message, but I had problems with inconsistent readings because there was no good ground contact between the sender and the tank, I drilled and tapped a small hole in the sender base for a dedicated small ground strap. I wonder sometimes if tank error readins sometimes are the result of this but blamed on sender and/or gauge. Gert Geoff Evans wrote: > > After reading the archives on the subject of fuel tank inspection plates and > fuel senders, I've decided to throw away the gaskets and just proseal the > inspection covers and the SW float fuel senders. The general consensus seems > to be that prosealing the whole thing will be more leakproof and moderately > easy to remove with a sharp putty knife if need be. > > I'm going to order some stainless steel socket head cap screws to use in > place of the AN phillips head screws. They should be easier to remove later > if need be. Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of standard > socket head screws versus "button head" screws? Both use an allen wrench, but > the button heads have a lower profile and are somewhat less expensive. > > Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when sealed > with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one > message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in > several years. > > Thanks. > -Geoff > > RV-8 QB > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
Date: Oct 03, 2003
> After reading the archives on the subject of fuel tank inspection plates and > fuel senders, I've decided to throw away the gaskets and just proseal the > inspection covers and the SW float fuel senders. The general consensus seems > to be that prosealing the whole thing will be more leakproof and moderately > easy to remove with a sharp putty knife if need be. > > I'm going to order some stainless steel socket head cap screws to use in > place of the AN phillips head screws. They should be easier to remove later > if need be. Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of standard > socket head screws versus "button head" screws? Both use an allen wrench, but > the button heads have a lower profile and are somewhat less expensive. > > Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when sealed > with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one > message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in > several years. > > Thanks. > -Geoff > RV-8 QB My covers are ProSealed with hex head screws exactly as you describe. 356 hours with no grounding problems whatsoever, and I've removed each one for sender replacements, not really a big deal. For details see...
http://www.rv-8.com/Wings.htm While button heads will work, spend the $ for the socket heads... less fragile. Randy Lervold www.rv-8.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
Date: Oct 03, 2003
OK I gotta chime in here....I have been trying to stay quiet on the subject but I think you are making a mistake. I have had to remove a bunch of the inspection plates that have been glued on and it is often a real headache. Proseal is a very effective glue....even if the plate comes off easy you will have to razor blade the sealant off of the tank and the plate and you will score the crap out of both surfaces. I have had the plate stuck on there so hard that I ruined it trying to remove it. I also know a guy who punched a hole in the end rib trying to pry the plate up. It can be a real bear of a job. If you dont trust the gaskets then put them on dry and then put a fillet of sealant around the plate. Same thing goes for the screws...keeping the sealant out of the screw heads. Also if you are going to substitue different screws be careful. The ones Vans send are very soft and do strip out real easy...but for a good reason. It is a lot easier to get another screw than to replace a stripped nutplate. Trust me on this, I have handled a lot of tanks. :) Evan www.evansaviationproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoff Evans" <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders > > After reading the archives on the subject of fuel tank inspection plates and > fuel senders, I've decided to throw away the gaskets and just proseal the > inspection covers and the SW float fuel senders. The general consensus seems > to be that prosealing the whole thing will be more leakproof and moderately > easy to remove with a sharp putty knife if need be. > > I'm going to order some stainless steel socket head cap screws to use in > place of the AN phillips head screws. They should be easier to remove later > if need be. Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of standard > socket head screws versus "button head" screws? Both use an allen wrench, but > the button heads have a lower profile and are somewhat less expensive. > > Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when sealed > with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one > message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in > several years. > > Thanks. > -Geoff > > RV-8 QB > > __________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Vans gauge lamps
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Mark, I recently had a requirement for a special lamp, and found what I was looking for by doing a Google search on Miniature lamps. The entire GE catalogue is listed (PDF file) and also aviation vendors. Good luck. Cheers!!----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net>
Subject: Heated Paint Booth
Date: Oct 03, 2003
I'm close to painting my RV6. One option I'm considering is an offer from a good friend who is an excellent professional painter for the last 25 year, at a large auto body shop near me. Obviously I'd have the wings and fuselage (with empennage installed) done in pieces prior to assembly. In going through the painting process review with him, he discussed the auto painting and the 10-20 minute "bake" they do on automobiles after each stage. Although I'd take the slider canopy off and paint it separately (air cure?), I'm unsure about subjecting the fuselage to a quick heat cycle with the plexiglass windscreen. The instruments in the panel are also a concern, although obviously cars go through this with all their plastic parts and nothing melts. My painter says we could skip the bake, but it would take a good deal longer to dry. I don't know how hot it gets in the booth; I'd guess at least 110 degrees maybe more. My concern would be how rapidly the temperature came up. He says he can change the temperature rate as well if that is a problem. I know that Eustace Bowhay talked about painting his next RV in pieces and then assembling it. Has anyone had experience with a heated professional paint booth. Thanks Duane Bentley RV6 Finishing West Chester, OH Im close to painting my RV6. One option Im considering is an offer from a good friend who is an excellent professional painter for the last 25 year, at a large auto body shop near me. Obviously Id have the wings and fuselage (with empennage installed) done in pieces prior to assembly. In going through the painting process review with him, he discussed the auto painting and the 10-20 minute bake they do on automobiles after each stage. Although Id take the slider canopy off and paint it separately (air cure?), Im unsure about subjecting the fuselage to a quick heat cycle with the plexiglass windscreen. The instruments in the panel are also a concern, although obviously cars go through this with all their plastic parts and nothing melts. My painter says we could skip the bake, but it would take a good deal longer to dry. I dont know how hot it gets in the booth; Id guess at least 110 degrees maybe more. My concern would be how rapidly the temperature came up. He says he can change the temperature rate as well if that is a problem. I know that Eustace Bowhay talked about painting his next RV in pieces and then assembling it. Has anyone had experience with a heated professional paint booth. Thanks Duane Bentley RV6 Finishing West Chester, OH ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: "Pieper_Frank" <Pieper_Frank(at)asdk12.org>
UnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribe > ---------- > From: Gert > Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Friday, October 3, 2003 2:47 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders > > > Geoff > > Don't know if that was my message, but I had problems with inconsistent > readings because there was no good ground contact between the sender and > the tank, I drilled and tapped a small hole in the sender base for a > dedicated small ground strap. > > I wonder sometimes if tank error readins sometimes are the result of > this but blamed on sender and/or gauge. > > Gert > > Geoff Evans wrote: > > > > > After reading the archives on the subject of fuel tank inspection plates and > > fuel senders, I've decided to throw away the gaskets and just proseal the > > inspection covers and the SW float fuel senders. The general consensus seems > > to be that prosealing the whole thing will be more leakproof and moderately > > easy to remove with a sharp putty knife if need be. > > > > I'm going to order some stainless steel socket head cap screws to use in > > place of the AN phillips head screws. They should be easier to remove later > > if need be. Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of standard > > socket head screws versus "button head" screws? Both use an allen wrench, but > > the button heads have a lower profile and are somewhat less expensive. > > > > Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when sealed > > with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one > > message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in > > several years. > > > > Thanks. > > -Geoff > > > > RV-8 QB > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: "Pieper_Frank" <Pieper_Frank(at)asdk12.org>
UnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribeUnsubscribe > ---------- > From: Evan and Megan Johnson > Reply To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Friday, October 3, 2003 2:59 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders > > > OK I gotta chime in here....I have been trying to stay quiet on the subject > but I think you are making a mistake. I have had to remove a bunch of the > inspection plates that have been glued on and it is often a real headache. > Proseal is a very effective glue....even if the plate comes off easy you > will have to razor blade the sealant off of the tank and the plate and you > will score the crap out of both surfaces. I have had the plate stuck on > there so hard that I ruined it trying to remove it. I also know a guy who > punched a hole in the end rib trying to pry the plate up. It can be a real > bear of a job. If you dont trust the gaskets then put them on dry and then > put a fillet of sealant around the plate. Same thing goes for the > screws...keeping the sealant out of the screw heads. Also if you are going > to substitue different screws be careful. The ones Vans send are very soft > and do strip out real easy...but for a good reason. It is a lot easier to > get another screw than to replace a stripped nutplate. Trust me on this, I > have handled a lot of tanks. :) > > Evan > www.evansaviationproducts.com > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Geoff Evans" <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com> > To: "RV List" > Subject: RV-List: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders > > > > > > After reading the archives on the subject of fuel tank inspection plates > and > > fuel senders, I've decided to throw away the gaskets and just proseal the > > inspection covers and the SW float fuel senders. The general consensus > seems > > to be that prosealing the whole thing will be more leakproof and > moderately > > easy to remove with a sharp putty knife if need be. > > > > I'm going to order some stainless steel socket head cap screws to use in > > place of the AN phillips head screws. They should be easier to remove > later > > if need be. Does anyone have any comments regarding the use of standard > > socket head screws versus "button head" screws? Both use an allen wrench, > but > > the button heads have a lower profile and are somewhat less expensive. > > > > Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when > sealed > > with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one > > message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in > > several years. > > > > Thanks. > > -Geoff > > > > RV-8 QB > > > > __________________________________ > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Previously owned RV kits
Date: Oct 03, 2003
Im nearing completion of a 6a that was started 14 years ago. I bought it partially completed from a previous owner. I am very fortunate to have found some local builders with a ton of experience, especially in RV's. In finishing the kit, we have found some very serious problems. The empennage attach bolts missed the longerons, the rudder would not attach to the vs without serious bending, the wings were ridiculously tight, ailerons mounted too high....... As you can tell, there were plenty of mistakes that I dont think I would have caught without the help from others. One of these may have caused a fatal accident. It definitely made me think. I just hope we caught them all. Now, with that being said, I still am glad with my purchase. I'll have the plane flying in much less time and with less money than if I bought it new. Even with the problems, if you're careful enough with your purchase and subsequent inspections, I believe you can make buying a partial kit a great deal. If you have to tear some parts open to inspect, you'll still be time well ahead than starting from scratch. I cant stress enough to try and find some experienced RV builder(s) to help you inspect every piece. Then get busy finishing. Good luck Jeff Dowling RV-6A almost Chicago/Louisville ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com>
Subject: Manual elevator trim placard
Date: Oct 03, 2003
How about an update and some pictures Pete? Jerry Doyal -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Delee & Pete Subject: RV-List: Manual elevator trim placard I am looking for a source for a placard for my manual elevator trim. I am looking for a source for a placard for my manual elevator trim. = direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. = http://www.matronics.com/trouble-report = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Duckworks landing light puzzle
Date: Oct 04, 2003
I don't get it. If the duckworks mount/reflector is in place, I can't get the lense back through the hole to install. If the lense is done first, I can't get to the mount screws. What is the solution to this puzzle?? - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 03, 2003
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Heated Paint Booth
If you have an offer from a professional painter with professional facilities at hand, then take it! The "Do it yourself" alternative will consume a surprising amount of time and personal effort. As far as the "bake" goes, it sounds no worse than parking the airplane on a typical concrete ramp in the US southwest on most any summer day. A nice slow warm up and cool down would be preferred to ensure even heating/cooling and so reduce differential expansion. Perhaps try and get some actual temperatures involved to see what really happens in the paint booth. Jim Oke RV-6A Winnipeg, MB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net> Subject: RV-List: Heated Paint Booth > > > I'm close to painting my RV6. One option I'm considering is an offer > from a good friend who is an excellent professional painter for the last > 25 year, at a large auto body shop near me. Obviously I'd have the > wings and fuselage (with empennage installed) done in pieces prior to > assembly. > > > In going through the painting process review with him, he discussed the > auto painting and the 10-20 minute "bake" they do on automobiles after > each stage. Although I'd take the slider canopy off and paint it > separately (air cure?), I'm unsure about subjecting the fuselage to a > quick heat cycle with the plexiglass windscreen. The instruments in the > panel are also a concern, although obviously cars go through this with > all their plastic parts and nothing melts. My painter says we could > skip the bake, but it would take a good deal longer to dry. I don't > know how hot it gets in the booth; I'd guess at least 110 degrees maybe > more. My concern would be how rapidly the temperature came up. He says > he can change the temperature rate as well if that is a problem. > > > I know that Eustace Bowhay talked about painting his next RV in pieces > and then assembling it. Has anyone had experience with a heated > professional paint booth. > > > Thanks > > > Duane Bentley > > > RV6 Finishing > > > West Chester, OH > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Im close to painting my > RV6. > One option Im considering is an offer from a good friend who is > an > excellent professional painter for the last 25 year, at a large auto > body shop > near me. Obviously Id have the wings and fuselage (with > empennage installed) > done in pieces prior to assembly. > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>In going through the painting > process > review with him, he discussed the auto painting and the 10-20 minute > bake they do on automobiles after each stage. > Although > Id take the slider canopy off and paint it separately (air > cure?), > Im unsure about subjecting the fuselage to a quick heat cycle > with the > plexiglass windscreen. The instruments in the panel are also a > concern, > although obviously cars go through this with all their plastic parts and > nothing melts. My painter says we could skip the bake, but it > would take > a good deal longer to dry. I dont know how hot it gets in > the > booth; Id guess at least 110 degrees maybe more. My concern > would > be how rapidly the temperature came up. He says he can change the > temperature rate as well if that is a problem. > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>I know that Eustace Bowhay talked > about > painting his next RV in pieces and then assembling it. Has anyone > had > experience with a heated professional paint booth. > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Duane Bentley > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>RV6 Finishing > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>West Chester, OH > > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: Re: Transponder antenna mounted inside cowl?
-------------------------------1065243166 In a message dated 10/03/2003 12:29:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, crabaut(at)coalinga.com writes: Jim, Whatcha' buildin'.... an RV-4 that will pull +10/-10 G's ???? Chuck No, I just want to be able to reach Vne in level flight. Where Vne = 270 mph. Jim Ayers -------------------------------1065243166 tutf-8"> In a message dated 10/03/2003 12:29:52 PM Pacific Daylight Time, crabaut(at)coalinga.com writes: -- RV-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut" crabaut(at)coalinga.com Jim, Whatcha' buildin'.... an RV-4 that will pull +10/-10 G's ???? Chuck No, I just want to be able to reach Vne in level flight. Where Vne 270 mph. http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201d20638/01"> Jim Ayers -------------------------------1065243166-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV4PatA(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: Re: oil door
In a message dated 10/3/3 8:12:47 PM, RV6AOKC(at)aol.com writes: <<.anyone have ideas on how to cut the door out from the top cowl>> Kurt I used a hack saw blade on the straight part, and a round blade that fits into a hack saw to cut curved corners. It came out very nice. To start the cut, use the end teeth on the hack saw blade to work your way through the glass. Sounds harder than it is to do. Pat Allender RV-4 Iowa City Go Hawks ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: RV Flap Settings
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Guys, I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 degree range? If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. Thanks! --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D painting... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: best oil filter cutter
I want to get an oil filter cutter but there are several available. Which one seems to work the best and is less messy? Kim Nicholas RV9A - almost done! Kent, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: Grounding & sealing SW fuel senders
Date: Oct 04, 2003
> Has anyone had problems with the senders not grounding properly when sealed > with proseal (including dipping the screws in proseal)? I saw only one > message about this in the archives, and no one has posted about this in > several years. My $.02 worth: I also was concerned about the ground return for the senders and also by the sealing method of the cover plates, especially after seeing George Orndorf's video on the wing construction. He made a comment about some people using Pro-seal to seal it but would probably wreck the tank if you ever had to remove it. So I didn't. I just have the gasket with a small bead of fuel resistant sealant running around both sides of the gasket. This bead is spread in a circle inside the circle of the screws. The reinforcing plate with the platenuts is prosealed along its edges to the tank's rib to prevent gas weeping through between it and the rib. All the platenuts are capped with a small thimble and they are liberally prosealed. The net result is that no gas can weep down the screw threads and the screws provide the necessary ground . Cheers!!-----Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Duckworks landing light puzzle
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Larry, I just finished this job and the lens goes in fine. You have to bend the plexi sort of like trying to close an open clam shell and then slide it in. Sure its a little tight but completely doable. Make sure not to scratch the lens on the opening though. I put a little tape on the edge of the opening to make sure of this then removed it once the lens is in. It's a pretty flexible lens and it helps to warm it up a little first. Karie Daniel Vans RV-7A Sammamish, WA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> Subject: RV-List: Duckworks landing light puzzle > > I don't get it. If the duckworks mount/reflector is in place, I can't > get the lense back through the hole to install. If the lense is done > first, I can't get to the mount screws. What is the solution to this > puzzle?? > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: Re: Duckworks landing light puzzle
-------------------------------1065285903 Use duct tape to hold the lens in position per the instructions Cash Copeland In a message dated 10/4/2003 9:40:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, karie4(at)comcast.net writes: Larry, I just finished this job and the lens goes in fine. You have to bend the plexi sort of like trying to close an open clam shell and then slide it in. Sure its a little tight but completely doable. Make sure not to scratch the lens on the opening though. I put a little tape on the edge of the opening to make sure of this then removed it once the lens is in. It's a pretty flexible lens and it helps to warm it up a little first. Karie Daniel Vans RV-7A Sammamish, WA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> Subject: RV-List: Duckworks landing light puzzle > > I don't get it. If the duckworks mount/reflector is in place, I can't > get the lense back through the hole to install. If the lense is done > first, I can't get to the mount screws. What is the solution to this > puzzle?? > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > -------------------------------1065285903 tutf-8"> Use duct tape to hold the lens in position per the instructions Cash Copeland In a message dated 10/4/2003 9:40:49 AM Pacific Daylight Time, karie4(at)comcast.net writes: -- RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" karie4(at)comcast.net Larry, I just finished this job and the lens goes in fine. You have to bend the plexi sort of like trying to close an open clam shell and then slide it in. Sure its a little tight but completely doable. Make sure not to scratch the lens on the opening though. I put a little tape on the edge of the opening to make sure of this then removed it once the lens is in. It's a pretty flexible lens and it helps to warm it up a little first. Karie Daniel Vans RV-7A Sammamish, WA. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Bowen" Larry(at)bowenaero.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Duckworks landing light puzzle -- RV-List message posted by: "Larry Bowen" Larry(at)bowenaero.com I don't get it. If the duckworks mount/reflector is in place, I can't get the lense back through the hole to install. If the lense is done first, I can't get to the mount screws. What is the solution to this puzzle?? - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com -------------------------------1065285903-- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com>
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
> > I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have > decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. > What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 > degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better > yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most > landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done > with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with > minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 > degree range? > > If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work > well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. > > Thanks! > > --Mark Navratil Personally I wouldn't go to the trouble. I always use full flaps for landing. These are not like Cessna flaps that induce a large amount of drag. I make no flap takeoffs except on grass there I will deflect the flaps equal to the down deflection of one aileron. Works fine. For landing, I use one half flaps on base leg (that takes 4 seconds or I just glance out and eye-ball it). Full flaps on final (another 4 seconds). Doug Weiler RV-4, N722DW, 82+ hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV8ter(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
on a dark night no problem? thought a small dot of reflective tape would do wonders. on a dark night no problem? thought a small dot of reflective tape would do wonders. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
> > >Guys, > >I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have >decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. >What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 >degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better >yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most >landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done >with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with >minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 >degree range? > >If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work >well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. > >Thanks! > >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D painting... Mark, I have no indicator whatsoever. I don't need one. I look out the window! I pop them down a bit for takeoff, and drop them all the way down for most landings. So there. Have fun! Brian Denk RV8 N94BD Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JNice51355(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: C/S Prop
(0.6 points), at.a.big.ISP(at)matronics.com Folks Not sure if this is of any use, since I plan a fixed pitch, but there is a c/s prop on ebay that came off of a Malibu Mirage. It's an HC-12YR-1BF. The "buy it now" price is $1370.00 Jim Nice WA State Folks Not sure if this is of any use, since I plan a fixed pitch, but there is a c/s prop on ebay that came off of a Malibu Mirage. It's an HC-12YR-1BF. The "buy it now" price is $1370.00 Jim Nice WA State ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: "BillDube(at)killacycle.com" <BillDube(at)killacycle.com>
Subject: Re: Vans gauge lamps
At 02:43 PM 10/3/03, you wrote: > >Attempting to achieve a total-LED panel, I am trying to convert >(pervert?) Vans fuel gauges to accept LEDs without much success. >Problem is the lamps must radiate 360 degrees around the axis of the >lamp holder to do much good. Has anyone experimented with using >diffuse-lense high intensity red LEDs for this? Any thoughts on if it >would even work? Perhaps you could put little reflective cones at the tip of each LED. You could make them out of aluminum (or anything shiny) and place them in the lamp holder ahead of the LED. They sell some pretty wide angle white LEDs. I've seen as large as 170, but 50 degrees is not uncommon. Wider angle would be better for this application. Bill Dube http://www.killacycle.com/Lights.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Subject: [ Jerry Calvert ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Jerry Calvert Subject: Oil Door http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/rv6@cox.net.10.04.2003/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Duckworks landing light puzzle
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Once I trimmed it 'almost to the retaining strip' it fit fine. Just like the instructions said it would. RTFM.... Thanks, - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Karie Daniel [mailto:karie4(at)comcast.net] > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 12:39 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Duckworks landing light puzzle > > > > Larry, > I just finished this job and the lens goes in fine. You have > to bend the plexi sort of like trying to close an open clam > shell and then slide it in. Sure its a little tight but > completely doable. Make sure not to scratch the lens on the > opening though. I put a little tape on the edge of the > opening to make sure of this then removed it once the lens is in. > > It's a pretty flexible lens and it helps to warm it up a little first. > > Karie Daniel > Vans RV-7A > Sammamish, WA. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Duckworks landing light puzzle > > > > > > I don't get it. If the duckworks mount/reflector is in > place, I can't > > get the lense back through the hole to install. If the > lense is done > > first, I can't get to the mount screws. What is the > solution to this > > puzzle?? > > > > - > > Larry Bowen > > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > > http://BowenAero.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV Flap Settings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
I have a (flap marking) dream: Mark the inboard end of the flap at the top wing skin with the flaps up. Lower the flaps completely and mark the flap at the outboard end at the wing skin. Connect the two marks, giving you a diagonal line. Above/forward of the line paint safety orange/red/whatever -- some contrasting color. As the flap are lowered the colored area grows and progresses outboard. If it's halfway out, you have half flaps. Etc. This seems really cool and clever in my mind's eye. Are there any drawbacks? Not really what you were asking for, but I thought I would share anyway. - Larry Bowen, RV-8 forever finishing ... Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: czechsix(at)juno.com [mailto:czechsix(at)juno.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 11:30 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: RV Flap Settings > > > > Guys, > > I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I > have decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to > show position. > What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have > markings every 10 degrees, or just a single mark for the > "half flaps" position? Or better yet, a mark for the typical > takeoff position? Seems to me that most landings will be > done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done with > either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift > with minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere > in the 10-15 degree range? > > If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that > seem to work well for best performance, I'd appreciate > knowing what they are. > > Thanks! > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D painting... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Flap leading edge protection
Listers, The leading edge of the flap on the RV-6/A (and probably all other RV's) is tight against the underside of the top skin of the wing. It drags on that top skin as the flaps are lowered. I have seen flap leading edges covered by a metal foil and by a white polymer that Van sells as UHMW tape as a replacement for the metal foil. My question is: has anyone tried applying the UMHW tape to the underside of the wing skin rather than to the flap? What were the results? Does it protect the paint on the flap? Thanks in advance. Regards, Richard Dudley -6A final details ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Previously owned RV-8 Kit
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Listers, I've got a RV-8 empennage kit for sale. I've decided to go with a RV-7 for my old age. I ordered the RV-7 empennage kit Friday. So, the RV-8 empennage kit is for sale. The horizontal is done. Fair workmanship if I do say so myself, and the vertical is started. I'm going out to the hanger this evening to start inventorying the parts. ( I have them in plastic drawers now.) I want $900.00 for the kit. I don't want to ship the empennage so you have to come here to get it. I'll put you up for the night, feed you and entertain you. You can't beat that. I live in Warsaw, Indiana (north central Indiana) Jim Nolan N444JN Listers, I've got a RV-8empennage kit for sale. I've decided to go with a RV-7 for my old age. I ordered the RV-7 empennage kit Friday. So, the RV-8 empennage kit is for sale. The horizontal is done. Fair workmanship if I do say so myself, and the vertical is started. I'm going out to the hanger this evening to start inventorying the parts. ( I have them in plastic drawers now.) I want $900.00 for the kit. I don't want to ship the empennage so you have to come here to get it. I'll put you up for the night, feed you and entertain you. You can't beat that. I live in Warsaw, Indiana (north central Indiana) Jim Nolan N444JN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Flap leading edge protection
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Richard: Regarding your question about the tape on the underside of the wing to protect the wing flaps. I have UHMA tape on the underside of the wing on my present RV, as Van suggested. After several hundred hours it is showing some marks on the flaps. My previous RV-6 I used the Stainless tape on the flap surface which was hid when the flaps were up. After 400 hours no wear was noted on the tape. Of the two ideas I liked the Stainless Steel tape best, and if it was still available I would use it as my flap as it is beginning to show some scratches on the flap surfaces. My view only. Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N502-RV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley(at)att.net> Subject: RV-List: Flap leading edge protection > > Listers, > > The leading edge of the flap on the RV-6/A (and probably all other RV's) > is tight against the underside of the top skin of the wing. It drags on > that top skin as the flaps are lowered. > > I have seen flap leading edges covered by a metal foil and by a white > polymer that Van sells as UHMW tape as a replacement for the metal foil. > > My question is: has anyone tried applying the UMHW tape to the underside > of the wing skin rather than to the flap? What were the results? Does it > protect the paint on the flap? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > > Richard Dudley > -6A final details > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID DAVENPORT" <ddavenport5(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Another completed RV-6
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Kit # 23811 flew for the first time on Thursday, October 2. For those of you keeping up with serial #'s, yes, this is an older slow-build from back in the days when you had to drill everything. These newer guys don't know what they are missing. The plane has an O-320 w/ a Sensenich prop, full IFR panel w/ autopilot. Everything looks like it is pretty straight forward from the first two or three flights. I'll get this test period knocked out and see you guys at Lakeland in April. Kit # 23811 flew for the first time on Thursday, October 2. For those of you keeping up with serial #'s, yes, this is an older slow-build from back in the days when you had to drill everything. These newer guys don't know what they are missing. The plane has an O-320 w/ a Sensenich prop, full IFR panel w/ autopilot. Everything looks like it is pretty straight forward from the first two or three flights. I'll get this test period knocked out and see you guys at Lakeland in April. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Flap leading edge protection
Date: Oct 04, 2003
The rule-of-thumb I remember is you put the tape on the surface you don't want scratched. Eventually you'll get some dust or dirt in there and the opposing surface will be scuffed... - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Richard Dudley [mailto:rhdudley(at)att.net] > Sent: Saturday, October 04, 2003 5:48 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Flap leading edge protection > > > > Listers, > > The leading edge of the flap on the RV-6/A (and probably all > other RV's) is tight against the underside of the top skin of > the wing. It drags on that top skin as the flaps are lowered. > > I have seen flap leading edges covered by a metal foil and by > a white polymer that Van sells as UHMW tape as a replacement > for the metal foil. > > My question is: has anyone tried applying the UMHW tape to > the underside of the wing skin rather than to the flap? What > were the results? Does it protect the paint on the flap? > > Thanks in advance. > > Regards, > > Richard Dudley > -6A final details ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: rivet gun psi
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz(at)vitez.net>
Hey guys, I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets etc.. So, I have two questions: 1) Most of the builders' sites I've seen, I haven't noticed anyone with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere "near" the gun. Yet, everyone' s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with that swivel regulator? 2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it - well, since I've seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun won't even "fire" when set to that pressure.. actually it won't "fire" at anything less than 80-85psi (per that gauge)... Would anyone know what I might be doing wrong? (It's a Taylor 2x gun) Now, back to a real-beginner's question :-) I must be missing something - but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as "dumbest question yet" :-) Thanks! Radomir Charlotte, NC RV-7A Emp. Hey guys, I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets etc.. So, I have two questions:

1) Most of the builders sites Ive seen, I havent noticed anyone with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere near the gun. Yet, everyone s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with that swivel regulator?

2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it well, since Ive seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun wont even fire when set to that pressure.. actually it wont fire at anything less than 80-85psi (per that gauge) Would anyone know what I might be doing wrong? (Its a Taylor 2x gun) Now, back to a real-beginners question J I must be missing something but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as dumbest question yet J Thanks! Radomir Charlotte, NC RV-7A Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: rivet gun psi
Radomir There are two kinds of regulators, pressure and volume. The pressure of 55 psi is set at the regulator with the gauge on, it will set the force of the blow and within reason will try to maintain the pressure at 55 psi regardless of volume (if the volume is within the regulator specs) so the gun will chatter away as fast as it can. The regulator in the swivel, if yours is like mine, regulates an amount of air (yes, it does INDIRECTLY affect the pressure at the gun). It would slow down the amount of strokes you get from the rivet gun because the volume of air is restricted. TOO much restriction and the air will bleed out of the gun faster than the air can move through the swivel and hence never build up pressure to start with. try the swivel all the way open and then play with the pressure till you are happy with the force of the blow. Then close the swivel regulator sloooowly till the strokes slow down a bit. From experience with the rivet gun I worked with, it sometimes appears gummed up or so and I have to drip airtool oil in it. that will make the mechanism go better (read: at lower pressures). Also, in the cold months it not always wants to work in the nether regions of the working pressure. I have a piece of (soft) wood I use to set the airpressure. I press the gun with the rivet set I am going to use and regulate the air pressure till I have the right 'feel'. If needed I tweak the swivel regulator so it slows down the blows to minimize walking of the buckingbar or rivet set. Hope this helps Gert Radomir Zaric wrote: > > > Hey guys, > > > I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets > etc.. So, I have two questions: > > > 1) Most of the builders' sites I've seen, I haven't noticed anyone > with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere "near" the gun. Yet, > everyone' s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with > that swivel regulator? > > 2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it - > well, since I've seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for > shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun won't even "fire" when set > to that pressure.. actually it won't "fire" at anything less than > 80-85psi (per that gauge)... Would anyone know what I might be doing > wrong? (It's a Taylor 2x gun) > > > Now, back to a real-beginner's question :-) I must be missing something > - but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head > goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from > the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as "dumbest question yet" :-) > > > Thanks! > > > Radomir > > Charlotte, NC > > RV-7A Emp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>Hey guys, > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>I keep reading about setting different psi for > different > size rivets etc.. So, I have two > questions: > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'> > >

style'margin-left:25.5pt;text-indent:-.25in'> faceVerdana> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>1) face"Times New Roman"> Roman"'> > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>Most of the builders sites Ive > seen, > I havent noticed anyone with a pressure gauge (manometer?) > anywhere near > the gun. Yet, everyone s referring to 55psi etc.. How do > you know > what you set with that swivel regulator? > >

style'margin-left:25.5pt;text-indent:-.25in'> faceVerdana> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>2) face"Times New Roman"> Roman"'> > style'font-size: > 10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>I got one of those regulators that has a > pressure > gauge on it well, since Ive seen references to setting > 55psi (or > even less) for shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun wont > even fire > when set to that pressure.. actually it wont fire > at > anything less than 80-85psi (per that gauge) Would > anyone > know what I might be doing wrong? (Its a Taylor 2x > gun) > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>Now, back to a real-beginners question > size2 faceWingdings> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J size2 faceVerdana> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'> I > must be missing something but when it comes to spars, how do I > determine which side factory head goes on (and ultimately, which way to > dimple). Am I to figure this from the drawings? Sorry if > this > qualifies as dumbest question yet size2 > faceWingdings> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings'>J > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>Thanks! > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'> > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>Radomir > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>Charlotte faceVerdana> style'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Verdana'>, NC > > style'font-size:10.0pt; > font-family:Verdana'>RV-7A Emp. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com>
Subject: Re: Flap leading edge protection
For some reason I put it on both surfaces. If you only put it only on the bottom side of the skin dirt will get in and scratch the paint on the flap. Of course this can only be seen with the flaps down. Gary Richard Dudley wrote: > >Listers, > >The leading edge of the flap on the RV-6/A (and probably all other RV's) >is tight against the underside of the top skin of the wing. It drags on >that top skin as the flaps are lowered. > >I have seen flap leading edges covered by a metal foil and by a white >polymer that Van sells as UHMW tape as a replacement for the metal foil. > >My question is: has anyone tried applying the UMHW tape to the underside >of the wing skin rather than to the flap? What were the results? Does it >protect the paint on the flap? > >Thanks in advance. > >Regards, > >Richard Dudley >-6A final details > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com>
Subject: Re: rivet gun psi
Hey guys, >1) Most of the builders' sites I've seen, I haven't noticed anyone >with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere "near" the gun. Yet, >everyone' s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with >that swivel regulator? > The swivel regulator only regulates the amount of air to the gun. It has no effect on pressure. Use the swivel to adjust the speed of the hits. The regulator on the air compressor regulates pressure. > >2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it - >well, since I've seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for >shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun won't even "fire" when set >to that pressure.. actually it won't "fire" at anything less than >80-85psi (per that gauge)... Would anyone know what I might be doing >wrong? (It's a Taylor 2x gun) > Sometimes mine missfires but always goes. That is a sign that it needs cleaning. (works for me) I have no experience with a Taylor gun. > > >Now, back to a real-beginner's question :-) I must be missing something >- but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head >goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from >the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as "dumbest question yet" :-) > I'm not quite sure I understand the question. I do know that the female die goes on the inside of the skin and the male on the outside. you want the dimple going to the inside. On my slow build 6A I countersunk everything on the empenage cept for the rudder and elevators. > > >Thanks! > > >Radomir > >Charlotte, NC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Indicators, who needs stinkin indicators. Ken Kruger once showed me that for takoff settings he would crank the elevator all the way over and match the flap position to the downward thrown elevator. This seemed to work pretty good. I have manual flaps and use 10 deg of flaps when heavy for takeoff. For landing my first flap notch is full. Get em down and forget about em. Gary Gary czechsix(at)juno.com wrote: > >Guys, > >I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have >decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. >What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 >degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better >yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most >landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done >with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with >minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 >degree range? > >If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work >well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. > >Thanks! > >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D painting... > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Another completed RV-6
Date: Oct 05, 2003
David, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "DAVID DAVENPORT" <ddavenport5(at)nc.rr.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Another completed RV-6 >Date: Sat, 4 Oct 2003 19:05:38 -0400 > > >Kit # 23811 flew for the first time on Thursday, October 2. For those of >you keeping up with serial #'s, yes, this is an older slow-build from >back in the days when you had to drill everything. These newer guys >don't know what they are missing. The plane has an O-320 w/ a Sensenich >prop, full IFR panel w/ autopilot. Everything looks like it is pretty >straight forward from the first two or three flights. I'll get this test >period knocked out and see you guys at Lakeland in April. > > > > > > > >Kit # 23811 flew for the first time on >Thursday, >October 2. For those of you keeping up with serial #'s, yes, this is an >older >slow-build from back in the days when you had to drill everything. These >newer >guys don't know what they are missing. The plane has an O-320 w/ a >Sensenich >prop, full IFR panel w/ autopilot. Everything looks like it is pretty >straight >forward from the first two or three flights. I'll get this test period >knocked >out and see you guys at Lakeland in April. > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: rivet gun psi
Date: Oct 04, 2003
This brings up the same old debate. Here's what I do. I have a very good brass regulator on my rivet gun, and leave my shop air at 120psi. You'll see that most experienced sheet metal guys don't give a hoot about pressures. The process....you shoot the rivet gun onto a piece of wood or something for a split second while adjusting the pressure knob on the gun. When it feels right for the size of rivet and set you are using, go riveting. The problem I have with adjusting the air at the compressor is as follows: 1) If you adjust it at the compressor, you still don't truly know what the pressure at the gun is becuase of line loss. 2) Pressure at the gun is next to meaningless. Different guns require different pressures for the same task. 3) Quickly changine sets becomes and issue. Flush, Spoon, or Mushroom sets take more "bang" than straight sets. 4) If you're doing things like fuselage skins that may have both #3 & #4 rivets, It's nice to change the pressure quickly. 5) If you need to drill out a rivet it's nice to have the pressure cranked up for the drill. I think I'll start selling the high quality brass valves on my site, as soon as I can get a good deal on them. I'll keep everyone posted when I do. Hope this helps, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Radomir Zaric Subject: RV-List: rivet gun psi Hey guys, I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets etc.. So, I have two questions: 1) Most of the builders' sites I've seen, I haven't noticed anyone with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere "near" the gun. Yet, everyone' s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with that swivel regulator? 2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it - well, since I've seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun won't even "fire" when set to that pressure.. actually it won't "fire" at anything less than 80-85psi (per that gauge)... Would anyone know what I might be doing wrong? (It's a Taylor 2x gun) Now, back to a real-beginner's question :-) I must be missing something - but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as "dumbest question yet" :-) Thanks! Radomir Charlotte, NC RV-7A Emp. Hey guys, I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets etc.. So, I have two questions:

1) Most of the builders sites Ive seen, I havent noticed anyone with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere near the gun. Yet, everyone s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with that swivel regulator?

2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it well, since Ive seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun wont even fire when set to that pressure.. actually it wont fire at anything less than 80-85psi (per that gauge) Would anyone know what I might be doing wrong? (Its a Taylor 2x gun) Now, back to a real-beginners question J I must be missing something but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as dumbest question yet J Thanks! Radomir Charlotte, NC RV-7A Emp. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Agreed here to. I had a position sensor (MAC LED type, looked really cool) but thought it was useless. I focused too much on it, and it kept my eyes from being outside. It didn't really matter how much was down, I just went by feel and by looking outside. After 20 hours of flying *your* airplane (really cool, BTW) you will know exactly how much flaps to use on most normal approaches and landings. I used to bump a little more in just before touchdown if it was a floater. If I were to do it again (and I will) I'd leave out the position sensor. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Flap Settings > > > > > > > >Guys, > > > >I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have > >decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. > >What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 > >degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better > >yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most > >landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done > >with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with > >minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 > >degree range? > > > >If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work > >well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. > > > >Thanks! > > > >--Mark Navratil > >Cedar Rapids, Iowa > >RV-8A N2D painting... > > Mark, > > I have no indicator whatsoever. I don't need one. I look out the window! I > pop them down a bit for takeoff, and drop them all the way down for most > landings. > > So there. > > Have fun! > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > > Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your existing Internet access and enjoy > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Davis" <rvpilot(at)access4less.net>
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Mark, In almost all cases, takeoff flaps are unnecessary in an RV and to use them invites damage to the flaps from stones, etc. thrown back by the prop blast. Bill, RV-8, Tiger-Kat ----- Original Message ----- From: <czechsix(at)juno.com> Subject: RV-List: RV Flap Settings > > Guys, > > I don't have a flap position indicator in my panel, instead I have > decided to put a few marks on the flaps themselves to show position. > What I'm wondering is if it really makes sense to have markings every 10 > degrees, or just a single mark for the "half flaps" position? Or better > yet, a mark for the typical takeoff position? Seems to me that most > landings will be done with full flaps, and most takeoffs will be done > with either no flaps at all, or a setting which gives added lift with > minimal extra drag....I imagine this would be somewhere in the 10-15 > degree range? > > If anybody has recommendations on takeoff flap settings that seem to work > well for best performance, I'd appreciate knowing what they are. > > Thanks! > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D painting... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: rivet gun psi
Radomir Zaric wrote: > > >Hey guys, > > >I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets >etc.. So, I have two questions: > > >1) Most of the builders' sites I've seen, I haven't noticed anyone >with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere "near" the gun. Yet, >everyone' s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with >that swivel regulator? > >2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it - >well, since I've seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for >shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun won't even "fire" when set >to that pressure.. actually it won't "fire" at anything less than >80-85psi (per that gauge)... Would anyone know what I might be doing >wrong? (It's a Taylor 2x gun) > > >Now, back to a real-beginner's question :-) I must be missing something >- but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head >goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from >the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as "dumbest question yet" :-) > > >Thanks! > > >Radomir > >Charlotte, NC > >RV-7A Emp. > Hi Radomir, You are right; every compressor/regulator/hose/gun regulator/gun combination is different, so pressure numbers are very rough approximations. Test on scrap & then use the pressure that's comfortable for you. If your spar question is about the tail kit spars, I applied an old buisiness course planning technique: I used the 'best worst case scenario' planning technique. I put the factory head on the side that was easiest to drill out if I messed up the rivet. :-) If this is poor technique, hopefully someone with more experience than us will offer their wisdom. Just wait till you get to the instruction that tells you the countersunk head can go on either side.... Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: rivet gun psi] (More)
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: RV-List: rivet gun psi Date: Sat, 04 Oct 2003 20:35:43 -0500 From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> Radomir Zaric wrote: > > >Hey guys, > > >I keep reading about setting different psi for different size rivets >etc.. So, I have two questions: > > >1) Most of the builders' sites I've seen, I haven't noticed anyone >with a pressure gauge (manometer?) anywhere "near" the gun. Yet, >everyone' s referring to 55psi etc.. How do you know what you set with >that swivel regulator? > >2) I got one of those regulators that has a pressure gauge on it - >well, since I've seen references to setting 55psi (or even less) for >shooting rivets, I tried that.. and the gun won't even "fire" when set >to that pressure.. actually it won't "fire" at anything less than >80-85psi (per that gauge)... Would anyone know what I might be doing >wrong? (It's a Taylor 2x gun) > > >Now, back to a real-beginner's question :-) I must be missing something >- but when it comes to spars, how do I determine which side factory head >goes on (and ultimately, which way to dimple). Am I to figure this from >the drawings? Sorry if this qualifies as "dumbest question yet" :-) > > >Thanks! > > >Radomir > >Charlotte, NC > >RV-7A Emp. > Hi Radomir, You are right; every compressor/regulator/hose/gun regulator/gun combination is different, so pressure numbers are very rough approximations. Test on scrap & then use the pressure that's comfortable for you. If your spar question is about the tail kit spars, I applied an old buisiness course planning technique: I used the 'best worst case scenario' planning technique. I put the factory head on the side that was easiest to drill out if I messed up the rivet. :-) If this is poor technique, hopefully someone with more experience than us will offer their wisdom. Just wait till you get to the instruction that tells you the countersunk head can go on either side.... Charlie Just reread your question. If you are talking about the spar FLANGE, then you dimple with the male die on the outside of the flange so that the skin dimple will nest into it. If you are talking about the 1/8" round head rivets that are internal, then my statement above would apply (at least for me) & there wouldn't be any dimpling. Except for that one 3/16" internal rivet where they give you a choice of countersink sides.... (Yes, I finally figured out WHY they said that in the plans.) Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Nylon brakeline fittings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
List: I am trying to get my brake lines installed on the pedal end of the system. The plans call out for a brass elbow and insert to attach a plastic high pressure line from the master cylinders to the reservoir. There is a plastic "T" fitting that attaches these plastic lines from the right and left brakes to the reservoir. In my finish kit, which was received late this summer, I do not have any brass elbow fittings or inserts. Instead, I have two elbow plastic fittings the same design as the "T" fitting for the reservoir. Is this a design change from using the brass fittings? I am not installing brakes on the copilot's side, so all I need is these two plastic fittings. I have noticed on some websites that plastic elbows were used on the copilot's side, but brass on the pilot's side. I looked for the brass elbows and inserts on my parts list and found them listed for bag 921-1. No such bag supplied with my kit, and no such bag called out for in the shipping list. Anyone else come upon this? I sure am tired of looking for parts that aren't there! Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A finish kit Peshtigo, WI List: I am trying to get my brake lines installed on the pedal end of the system. The plans call out for a brass elbow and insert to attach a plastic high pressure line from the master cylinders to the reservoir.There is a plastic "T" fitting that attaches these plastic lines from the right and left brakes to the reservoir. In my finish kit, which was received late this summer, I do not have any brass elbow fittings or inserts. Instead, I have two elbow plastic fittings the same design as the "T" fitting for the reservoir. Is this a design change from using the brass fittings? I am not installing brakes on the copilot's side, so all I need is these two plastic fittings. I have noticed on some websites that plastic elbows were used on the copilot's side, but brass on the pilot's side. I looked for the brass elbows and inserts on my parts list and found them listed for bag 921-1. No such bag supplied with my kit, and no such bag called out for in the shipping list. Anyone else come upon this? I sure am tired of looking for parts that aren't there! Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A finish kit Peshtigo, WI ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Flap leading edge protection
Harvey, The stainless tape is still available. Excuse the long link... http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?Ntx=mode+matchallany&langId=-1&AID=1157440&Dx=mode+matchall&PID=1323201&productId=1194&CJURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jcwhitney.com%2F&catalogId=10101&TID=101&storeId=10101 Or go to www.jcwhitney.com and search for "stainless tape" I think it is the 3 inch wide by 20 ft. roll that is applicable for $19.99 gil in Tucson *** snip *** > Of the two ideas I liked the Stainless Steel >tape best, and if it was still available I would use it as my flap as it is >beginning to show some scratches on the flap surfaces. My view only. >Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N502-RV RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ Harvey, The stainless tape is still available. Excuse the long link... http://www.jcwhitney.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?Ntx=mode+matchallanylangId=-1AID=1157440Dx=mode+matchallPID=1323201productId=1194CJURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.jcwhitney.com%2FcatalogId=10101TID=101storeId=10101 Or go to www.jcwhitney.com and search for stainless tape I think it is the 3 inch wide by 20 ft. roll that is applicable for $19.99 gil in Tucson -- RV-List message posted by: Harvey Sigmon rv6hes(at)comcast.net *** snip *** Of the two ideas I liked the Stainless Steel tape best, and if it was still available I would use it as my flap as it is beginning to show some scratches on the flap surfaces. My view only. Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N502-RV RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall... 77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Nylon brakeline fittings
Date: Oct 05, 2003
> > >List: > >I am trying to get my brake lines installed on the pedal end of the >system. The plans call out for a brass elbow and insert to attach a >plastic high pressure line from the master cylinders to the reservoir. >There is a plastic "T" fitting that attaches these plastic lines from >the right and left brakes to the reservoir. > >In my finish kit, which was received late this summer, I do not have any >brass elbow fittings or inserts. Instead, I have two elbow plastic >fittings the same design as the "T" fitting for the reservoir. > >Is this a design change from using the brass fittings? I am not >installing brakes on the copilot's side, so all I need is these two >plastic fittings. I have noticed on some websites that plastic elbows >were used on the copilot's side, but brass on the pilot's side. > >I looked for the brass elbows and inserts on my parts list and found >them listed for bag 921-1. No such bag supplied with my kit, and no >such bag called out for in the shipping list. > >Anyone else come upon this? I sure am tired of looking for parts that >aren't there! > > >Regards, > >Jeff Orear >RV6A Scrap all that crap and use Swagelok fittings. They will NOT leak, and are the ultimate in security for such a critical system. We use them exclusively for plumbing very nasty chemicals and gases at Intel. Brass or Stainless are fine for brake fluid. Find a seal and fitting store in your town and go get 'em. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 40051 Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rv6tc" <rv6tc(at)myawai.com>
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Date: Oct 04, 2003
Gary, I'm not sure that I'd want to fly with someone who's cranking elevators to match the flaps. Although, I bet the roll rate would kick butt. Keith ----- Original Message ----- > > Indicators, who needs stinkin indicators. Ken Kruger once showed me that > for takoff settings he would crank the elevator all the way over and > match the flap position to the downward thrown elevator. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: Re: best oil filter cutter
-------------------------------1065327591 In a message dated 10/4/2003 8:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: I want to get an oil filter cutter but there are several available. Which one seems to work the best and is less messy? I have the KRC1203 from Chief. It is inexpensive and works well. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 650hrs) -------------------------------1065327591 tutf-8"> In a message dated 10/4/2003 8:33:30 AM Pacific Daylight Time, Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes: I want to get an oil filter cutter but there are several available. Which one seems to work the best and is less messy? I have the KRC1203 from Chief. It is inexpensive and works well. -GV (RV-6A N1GV 650hrs) -------------------------------1065327591-- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: New rudder
If anyone is interested I have posted a few pictures that I took just before the first flight of the new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer on my RV-6.
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html Having built one of the first RV-6 kits I could not believe the quality of the new kit. I picked up the parts at Van's a week ago Friday and flew it this last Friday. I have not mentioned it here on the RV-List tell now, but the reason I replaced them is because my rudder was damaged at the homecoming flyin this year. I don't know how it happened and no one has admitted knowing anything. My rudder was hit about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom and the trailing edge was pushed over about 2". Because I had to replace the rudder I decided to go ahead and replace the stab also with the new style larger rudder and stabilizer. Well report more as I get more time on it. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Nylon brakeline fittings
Jeff Orear wrote: snip Jeff, I took the advice of several people and used the individual brake reservoirs on each cylinder. Randy Lervold has a pic of this on his site: http://www.rv-8.com/IdeasProducts.htm#PRODUCT:%20Aircraft%20Spruce%20A-600%20Brake%20Reservoirs His is for an 8 but it works on the 6 as well. These are available from AC$ for $11.60. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/reservoirs.php I did have to move some washers around to shim the master cylinders around to get good clearance between them, but it worked out OK. Jeff Point RV-6 wiring Milwaukee WI ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: Re: RV Flap Settings
Mark: I worried a lot about not having flap marks ... now it is not an issue. If I am solo I land with about 15 - 20 degrees of flaps. I have the CS prop and battery up front. The lower flap setting was a hint from Pat Hatch that really works. Otherwise with full flaps it is really hard to keep the flare easy. With passengers I land with full flaps. I put half down at the numbers and the other half on base. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 150 hrs Mark: I worried a lot about not having flap marks ... now it is not an issue. If I am solo I land with about 15 - 20 degrees of flaps. I have the CS prop and battery up front. The lower flap setting was a hint from Pat Hatch that really works. Otherwise with full flaps it is really hard to keep the flare easy. With passengers I land with full flaps. I put half down at the numbers and the other half on base. Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, NC N910LL 150 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
Subject: Re: rivet gun psi
Date: Jan 04, 1980
To prevent erratic operation of the rivet gun regardless of length of hose from the compressor, I have my pressure regulator with gauge and filter at the end of the hose, usually hanging from my belt with about 6' from there to the gun. I set the operating pressure for the gun in use (2x or 3x) there, with the other regulator at the compressor end set at 80 PSI which is the cut-in pressure of my compressor start-up. Worked great for me. Cheers!!---Henry Hore ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: New rudder
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Hi Jerry, I'm very curious to see what flight improvements you might see. I also put a new "RV9" rudder/stab on my latest -6 that will fly within the next month or two. My current -6 has the old "short" tail, and really likes to wag in bumpy air. Also, I run out of rudder in gusty x-winds of 15+. I'm hoping the big tail will help on both fronts. Let me know if you do a new W&B, I'm also curious to see how much more weight is back there. Sorry to hear about your rudder damage. Too bad someone wasn't big enough to apologize and offer afew dimes to help. Happy flying with your new "6.9" as I call mine! Cheers, Stein Bruch, RV6's, Minneapolis. http://www.steinair.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Subject: RV-List: New rudder If anyone is interested I have posted a few pictures that I took just before the first flight of the new RV-9 rudder and stabilizer on my RV-6. http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html Having built one of the first RV-6 kits I could not believe the quality of the new kit. I picked up the parts at Van's a week ago Friday and flew it this last Friday. I have not mentioned it here on the RV-List tell now, but the reason I replaced them is because my rudder was damaged at the homecoming flyin this year. I don't know how it happened and no one has admitted knowing anything. My rudder was hit about 1/3 of the way up from the bottom and the trailing edge was pushed over about 2". Because I had to replace the rudder I decided to go ahead and replace the stab also with the new style larger rudder and stabilizer. Well report more as I get more time on it. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Stephenson" <mike(at)proclaimweb.com>
Subject: Re: New rudder
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Jerry, The http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html now works correctly. Could you give more details on the problems you ran into when changing to the 9 rudder. If will be mounting the tail on my 6A soon, but if it a improvement, I would not mind building and using a 9 rudder. Mike Stephenson Lubbock, TX RV-6A canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New rudder
There is absolutely no problem with the conversion at all. The toughest part for me was having to match drill the new holes in the vertical stab spar to match the existing hole in my fuselage where the original vertical spar was attached. Everything else fit with no problems. I am doing my 5 hour test flights in phase 1 now and have about an hours flight time. So far I have found that I have much more rudder authority taxiing on the ground It was a calm day when I flew on Friday but I found that it just felt much more solid in flight, I could take my feet off the rudder pedals and the ball would stay solid in the center. My big test well be when I can fly it on a windy day and try some x-wind landings. Jerry Mike Stephenson wrote: > >Jerry, > >The http://www.home.earthlink.net/~jsflyrv/page6.html now works correctly. > >Could you give more details on the problems you ran into when changing to >the 9 rudder. > >If will be mounting the tail on my 6A soon, but if it a improvement, I would >not mind building and using a 9 rudder. > >Mike Stephenson >Lubbock, TX >RV-6A canopy > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Dynon report
mstewart(at)qa.butler.com wrote: > 2. They should have had a turn knob for setting baro pressure. At Arlington this year, one of the units Dynon had on display was one with a knob in place of one of the end buttons. They had the firmware set up to act just as you describe, with rotation of the knob setting those numbers. They indicated they were evaluating the demand for such a feature, so you might want to send them an email and let them know you think it would be worth adding. -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com>
Subject: Aileron counterweight
I only found one reference to this in the archives. I'm wondering about priming the aileron counterweight pipe. The reference said if using epoxy primer just etch, no alodine. The no alodine makes sense because it's a chemical reaction with the aluminum, but I'm not sure about the etching. Will alumi-prep (or equivalent) etch a galvanized pipe? I'm using a two part epoxy primer and would like to stick with that unless a different primer is just far superior on galvinized pipe. Thanks. Ken ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: Aileron counterweight
Ken Different etch for iron products. I lightly sanded the pipe, cleaned it thoroughly and primed with DP50 an epoxy primer from PPG. primer seems to adhere pretty good, I also blew primer inside the tube. Gert Ken Simmons wrote: > > I only found one reference to this in the archives. I'm wondering about priming the aileron counterweight pipe. The reference said if using epoxy primer just etch, no alodine. The no alodine makes sense because it's a chemical reaction with the aluminum, but I'm not sure about the etching. Will alumi-prep (or equivalent) etch a galvanized pipe? I'm using a two part epoxy primer and would like to stick with that unless a different primer is just far superior on galvinized pipe. > > Thanks. > > Ken > > > > > > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: Re: New rudder
In a message dated 10/5/03 10:03:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net writes: << The toughest part for me was having to match drill the new holes in the vertical stab spar to match the existing hole in my fuselage where the original vertical spar was attached. >> Jerry: Was the -9 vertical stab spar predrilled for the mounting holes, and if so did you have any problem with hole to hole edge distance there? Thanks. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, firewall forward ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: New rudder
No, it was not pre drilled thankfully, I believe they are left undrilled on all of them so they can be drilled with the fuselage. I had to locate the spar in position and then transfer the hole location in my fuselage to the new spar. It was not difficult just time consuming to make sure the holes lined up properly and the vertical stabilizer was perpendicular to the horizontal stab.. The spar is basically the same width as the original -6 spar so hole edge distance was not a problem. Jerry HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 10/5/03 10:03:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, >jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net writes: > ><< The toughest part for me was having to match drill the new holes in the >vertical stab spar to match the existing hole in my fuselage where the >original vertical >spar was attached. >> > > >Jerry: Was the -9 vertical stab spar predrilled for the mounting holes, and >if so did you have any problem with hole to hole edge distance there? Thanks. > >Harry Crosby >Pleasanton, California >RV-6, firewall forward > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Nice Recovery!
Date: Oct 05, 2003
> Had my first dead stick yesterday, flight of 7, lead, while performing at > SERFI. > Mechanical fuel pump failure in flight. Landed safely on the runway. No harm > no foul. WHEW! I was watching Team RV at SERFI and thought Lead broke off a little suddenly! Other than that, didn't even notice anything was wrong. Nice job Mike. Tracy Crook ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com>
Subject: Dynon report
I have to second Sam's statement. Talk about a wonderful unit. I forced it to +/- 500 feet off desired altitude and the Altrak returns to the assigned altitude at 500 fpm and does not overshoot. I sure wish my Navaid worked as good. Gary Sam Buchanan wrote: >Besides, I have become SPOILED ROTTEN by the AlTrak! Just fly to the >desired altitude, punch the green button, and let the electrons keep the >plane at the correct altitude. Matter of fact, I have found you don't >even have to level out; just activate as you climb through the desired >altitude and the AlTrak will come back to where you want it! > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WMPALM(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: SoCAL RV RendezVous - Nov. 1
RV Enthusiasts, Our SoCAL (Southern California) RV List group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socal-rvlist/) is hosting an RV "get-together" called the SoCAL RV RendezVous on Saturday, Nov. 1 at Cable Airport, Upland, CA (KCCB) (http://www.cableairport.com). This "get-together" is an opportunity for RV enthusiasts (flyers, builders, friends, and family) to fly together, swap stories, swap extra RV parts, enjoy RV camaraderie, have a little something to eat and drink, enjoy the sunshine, etc., etc. - - Just a straightforward, informal "good time" for all! We'll be ready for arrivals starting at 9 am, and the RendezVous goes until 4 pm. Note: SoCAL's weather is normally terrific in early November! For morning arrivals, we will have FREE donuts, rolls, juice, and coffee. For lunch, the Cable EAA Chapter will have their food booth with reasonably priced food and drink. Cable also has an excellent airport restaurant, Maniac Mike's Caf=E9, for more "gourmet" fare at reasonable prices. Important: If you're planning to come to the RendezVous (75% sure, anyway!), please RSVP to socal_rendezvous(at)yahoo.com with your estimated number of people and vehicles (autos or aircraft) so that we can get a rough idea of how many people and vehicles might be arriving. This will help us with aircraft and auto parking preparations, food and drink amounts, etc. THANKS! Further details concerning the SoCAL RV RendezVous will be e-mailed to you in a few days. If you have any questions, please reply to this e-mail, and we'll try to provide an answer, or at least an opinion! We'll look forward to seeing you on Saturday, Nov.1 at Cable Airport!!! RVs FOREVER!!! Best Regards, Gary Sobek SoCAL RV RendezVous Chairman EAA Technical Counselor RV-6 N157GS Bill Palmer RendezVous Marketing & Communications Officer RV-8A QB In-Progress RV Enthusiasts, Our SoCAL (Southern California) RV List group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/socal-rvlist/) is hosting an RV "get-together" called the SoCAL RV RendezVous on Saturday, Nov. 1 at Cable Airport, Upland, CA (KCCB) (http://www.cableairport.com). This "get-together" is an opportunity for RV enthusiasts (flyers, builders, friends, and family) to fly together, swap stories, swap extra RV parts, enjoy RV camaraderie, have a little something to eat and drink, enjoy the sunshine, etc., etc. - - Just a straightforward, informal "good time" for all! We'll be ready for arrivals starting at 9 am, and the RendezVous goes until 4 pm. Note: SoCAL's weather is normally terrific in early November! For morning arrivals, we will have FREE donuts, rolls, juice, and coffee. For lunch, the Cable EAA Chapter will have their food booth with reasonably priced food and drink. Cable also has an excellent airport restaurant, Maniac Mike's Caf=E9, for more "gourmet" fare at reasonable prices. Important: If you're planning to come to the RendezVous (75% sure, anyway!), please RSVP to socal_rendezvous(at)yahoo.com with your estimated number of people and vehicles (autos or aircraft) so that we can get a rough idea of how many people and vehicles might be arriving. This will help us with aircraft and auto parking preparations, food and drink amounts, etc. THANKS! Further details concerning the SoCAL RV RendezVous will be e-mailed to you in a few days. If you have any questions, please reply to this e-mail, and we'll try to provide an answer, or at least an opinion! We'll look forward to seeing you on Saturday, Nov.1 at Cable Airport!!! RVs FOREVER!!! Best Regards, Gary Sobek SoCAL RV RendezVous Chairman EAA Technical Counselor RV-6 N157GS Bill Palmer RendezVous Marketing Communications Officer RV-8A QB In-Progress ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: SS tape
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Of the two ideas I liked the Stainless Steel tape best, and if it was still available I would use it as my flap as it is beginning to show some scratches on the flap surfaces. Try JC Whitney Catalog they had it last year. Make sure you have it shipped to someplace other then your home as you will get 3000 catalogs from them for the next few years. W ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: AlTrak article
Here is a link to additional info about the AlTrak installation in N399SB: http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/altrak.htm Sam Buchanan =========================== Gary Zilik wrote: > > > I have to second Sam's statement. Talk about a wonderful unit. I forced > it to +/- 500 feet off desired altitude and the Altrak returns to the > assigned altitude at 500 fpm and does not overshoot. I sure wish my > Navaid worked as good. > > Gary > > Sam Buchanan wrote: > > >Besides, I have become SPOILED ROTTEN by the AlTrak! Just fly to the > >desired altitude, punch the green button, and let the electrons keep the > >plane at the correct altitude. Matter of fact, I have found you don't > >even have to level out; just activate as you climb through the desired > >altitude and the AlTrak will come back to where you want it! > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mstewart(at)qa.butler.com
Subject: My dead stick
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Well since the cat is out of the bag, and my e-mail is getting full with all the inquiry's, I have attached our flight debrief from the airshow at SERFI yesterday for you to read the events. At the end, Ill follow up with some notes based on the questions I have been getting. ======= 7 ship taxi and takeoff went real well. Our hold outside the box was a bit long for the show delay, but the only issue I was concerned about was Nomad making his Delta departure on-time. We watched the video of the flight extensively last night and surprisingly, the flight looked real good. We all felt it is a bit ragged as pilots, but the video proved otherwise. Transitions were smooth, and the runs to show center were quite good. Then.. at about 400' agl ... Well, my little engine problem and pitch straight up and out of the flight. I was very impressed with my instant decision to pull out of the flight without anyone in the flight knowing there was a problem. It was nice to see that our training kicked in instantly and the flight only knew that I was gone with "1's out". In summary: I had about 2 seconds of an alarm beeping at me. I looked at the instrument and a big fat Zero blinking on the fuel pressure. As I stared at it confirming I was seeing what I was seeing, I had one cough from the engine and I made an imediate decision to pull out and called "1's out". I made a 6 G pull, 130 deg. bank left for a look see at the runway and called "1's engine out, got the field made, Nomad you have the flight"(as briefed). Now I did not intend to pull that hard, but the 50lbs of smoke oil made made me more tail heavy than I considered at that moment, and I had only ONE concern at that moment... Get my ass out from this flight so I don't have a bunch of planes running into me. Airboss keyed up and said "1's cleared to land." I remember thinking. "Well thats good. Cause Im landing on that runway right there." I layed in the hardest slip I could and again keyed up, "I have the field, Jim you have the flight" Made a nice landing, and rolled off the runway into the grass while the rest of the flight regrouped and continued on without me, just as briefed. I got my engine started and taxied back. Turns out I had a failure in my mechanical fuel pump and had the breaker pulled for the electric fuel pump(for other reasons too complicated to explain here). Incredible job team for getting it together and pressing on. Our show was cut short, we had only completed about 1/2 of it, but it could not had gone ANY better than it did based on the circumstances. It is a testimate to our trainers (Stu, Subie, Nomad et al.), and the teams focus and attention to detail. The wingmen kept their position and the flight did not fall apart. Its incredible really when you think about it. Most of the on-lookers did not even know there was a problem. Thank goodness for all you military guys that have passed on your experiences to us civillian types. It saved my butt yesterday, and the others in the flight. Next show is columbia. See you there. Mike ========= Question? What about the electric pump? Well I had just completed a major panel change over and had not tested the elec. pump circuit. I left the breaker pulled before leaving home base that morning. I knew it worked, I had turned it on after the panel change, I had not changed anything in that circuit, but just as a matter of my own procedure, I dont turn anything on until I test the circuit(wire chase, current draw, etc.) on a major change like a panel overhaul. I pulled the breaker as a reminder to do it. It was a mistake for not following up on it sooner. It would not have changed the circumstances of the pitchout from the flight, but the engine would have fired back up and I could have put down with my prop making power. Question? Mike dont you fly with your pump on? Not as a matter of course. Usually only for acro, take-off and landing. But not that day. We discussed it during the debrief. Some do and some dont. Hind sight, well yes my elec fuel pump on would have cured that problem. But we all agreed that a pump failure like the is so rare, that is is Monday night quarterbacking to now have all pumps on. We have many more, much higher risk items to deal with when show flying like that and this one is extremely rare that to burden all with one more mental item to do would be detrimental. You want the flight members to have their mind one a small finite amount of items. You don't want to add rules for extremely rare items. For example. A tire failure in a formation takeoff is a much higher risk item, well somewhat in terms of the way we take off we try and take it into account, Do we address it really? No, we take the risk. I know your thinking just put the pump on whats the big deal. Well i probably will now. But it will not be a flight brief item. This needs more discussion between us. Much debate here to be had. And I am sure many will chime in about having the pump on when at low altitude. Ill probably have my pump running at low altitude next time when my battery fails on my dual elec ign.. Its hard to manage all the risks. Clearly I should have had that breaker in and it was a lapse on my part to not have done so. Mike how did you have the presense of mind to talk to the flight whilst your engine was out? Well quite frankly, once I pitched up and rolled and saw the runway, my only concern then was my buddies I left behind. I have seen formations go to hell from little items. I could not see them as they were going away from the airport. I was of course heading toward it. They were not talking as they were busy reconfiguring as briefed. Naturally they were also worried about me too so they were pretty quiet. We owned the freq.. But all I could think about once I saw the runway was the 6 ships I left behind. "Were they OK, did I pull hard enough? Was what I was thinking" In the end I had nothing to worry about. They were making power and were in good hands with Nomad (Jim Lawrence.. Lifetime military fighter pilot, formation flight lead and check pilot, Delta captain, good man, great stick, and so forth...) Mike why the pitch up so hard? The biggest danger of all is not pulling out in an engine failure. Although all flight members fly in a stacked down position, the clearance is minimal (2-4 feet Leader prop to vert fin for the guy in the slot for example) and it would not be pretty to the planes behind me to have a prop not making power while i continue straight and level. They would try by habit to match my speed and well, it would get ugly very very quickly. As part of our training, the only thing to do, and I mean RIGHT NOW, is to pull out. The danger in a pull out like that is that the flight follows you. Thats why the pull out must be abrupt and RIGHT NOW! you don't want any flight member to have the chance to follow you. 6 g's? No it did not have to be that hard, but I pulled to get the hell out, it just ended up the six is where the needle stopped. Speed at the time was 135kts. Next time I'll try and only pull 4.7:) Mike you guys briefed a lost leader? Yes. And I am glad we did. It is common enough for leader to have a problem that the flight needs to be taken control of imediately to maintain flight dicipline and flight safety. We don't necessairly brief a lost lead for every flight, but we do when we are show flying, doing low altitude maneuvering. Is there anytime during the flight where you would not be able to make the field? In theory no. We are never low and slow. Low and fast or high and slow yes. We get pretty slow at the top of our lazy eights during formation changes. But we work the routine so that at anytime, the field can be had. This was my first uncommanded engine out, but not my first dead stick landing. I have practiced several engine outs over big airports and landed engine out. I wanted to know exactly what my plane felt like when the engine was not making power so I have practiced it a few times. There is no question that my practice did help my calmness during this emergency. You glider guys know what I'm talking about. OK thats it. Let the discussions begin. Ill try and answer other questions as they come if they are addressed my way. This incident has changed me. There is no question about that. I am going through a strange mental period right now. I am sure there is a psyco babble name for the stage I am in. The event was actually no problem. The after event mentally has been challenging. I am so thankful for my mentors who instilled a few key items in me. I have learned some things. Regards, Mike Stewart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RV6AOKC(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Subject: Mixture Cable/Attachment...
Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the Mixture cable the rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on carb sized for #4. The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find any material to make a bushing due to the small difference in size between the two. I also looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a rod end bearing in a #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks again!!!!!!!!!! Kurt in OKC Finishing RV6A..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In
Date: Oct 05, 2003
A reminder: For those unable to attend LOE, the 3rd Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In will be held at Eagle Neck Airpark (1GA0) on Sat. Oct. 18. Eagle Neck is located on the Georgia coastline half way between Savannah and St. Simons Island. This is a low key event featuring a BBQ lunch and lots of southern hospitality. If you have the time, Savannah is a beautiful city and a visit there would compete a great weekend. If you can make it, please RSVP to this address for details. Dick & Vicki Sipp RV4 N250DS RV10 N1110DV 912 832 4813 A reminder: For those unable to attend LOE, the 3rd Coastal Georgia Fall Fly In will be held at Eagle Neck Airpark (1GA0) on Sat. Oct. 18. Eagle Neck is located on the Georgia coastline half way between Savannah and St. Simons Island. This is a low key event featuring a BBQ lunch and lots of southern hospitality. If you have the time, Savannah is a beautiful city and a visit there would compete a great weekend. If you can make it, please RSVP to this address for details. Dick Vicki Sipp RV4 N250DS RV10 N1110DV 912 832 4813 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Mixture Cable/Attachment...
Date: Oct 05, 2003
Kurt, Some thin wall brass tubing from a hobby shop should keep the #3 bolt on center while being tightened. Once tight the bearing center race is clamped in place so bolt centering is all that is required if at all. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: <RV6AOKC(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... > > Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the Mixture cable the > rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on carb sized for #4. > The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find any material to > make a bushing due to the small difference in size between the two. I also > looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a rod end bearing in a > #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks again!!!!!!!!!! > > Kurt in OKC > Finishing RV6A..... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: My dead stick
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Mike, WELL DONE on your composure in FLYING THE AIRPLANE and not endangering your formation. As a fellow member of the RV glider club, all I can say to those wondering what goes on in your noggin when the mill quits...well...you do as your are trained to do. PRACTICE power off landings folks. Then, practice some more. I can understand your strange mental situation now. After I was down and safe, I had a flood of mental thoughts...fear, anger, frustration, etc. The anger was directed to the airplane I had come to trust completely for letting me down. That trust will be regained for you. It only takes time. Fly safely. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 40051 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Mixture Cable/Attachment...
Date: Oct 05, 2003
I found a bushing for that situation at http://mcmaster.com. I had to trim to length, but otherwise it was perfect. - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: RV6AOKC(at)aol.com [mailto:RV6AOKC(at)aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 9:35 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... > > > > Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the > Mixture cable the > rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on > carb sized for #4. > The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find > any material to > make a bushing due to the small difference in size between > the two. I also > looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a > rod end bearing in a > #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks > again!!!!!!!!!! > > Kurt in OKC > Finishing RV6A..... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 05, 2003
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: tempo aircraft enamel
In the Aircraft Spruce catalog I came across paint in a spray can called Tempo Aircraft Enamel. It is supposed to be used for aircraft interiors. Has any one used this product? Is it reasonably durable? -- Tom Sargent RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Mixture Cable/Attachment...
Date: Oct 06, 2003
I also used brass tubing. Use a short piece of 1/4" OD piece which has a 7/32" ID. This piece fits the hole in the arm. Insert a short piece of 7/32" OD piece which has a 3/16" ID which is the size of an AN3 bolt. You end up with one tube inserted in the other and the bolt through the inner tubing. The brass comes in one foot lengths at hobby shops and hardware stores...enough for about 30 RV's! Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok RV6 N296JC res ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... > > Kurt, > > Some thin wall brass tubing from a hobby shop should keep the #3 bolt on > center while being tightened. Once tight the bearing center race is clamped > in place so bolt centering is all that is required if at all. > > > Jim in Kelowna > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <RV6AOKC(at)aol.com> > Subject: RV-List: Mixture Cable/Attachment... > > > > > > Another question for the masses....=) In attaching the Mixture cable the > > rod end bearing has a hole for a #3 bolt and mixture arm on carb sized for > #4. > > The instructions say simply to use a bushing. I cant find any material > to > > make a bushing due to the small difference in size between the two. I > also > > looked at just using a #4 bolt/washers, but couldn't find a rod end > bearing in a > > #4 size. Please enlighten me if you have the time...thanks > again!!!!!!!!!! > > > > Kurt in OKC > > Finishing RV6A..... > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: My dead stick
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Great Job! Mike You have shown again that "preplanning" or thinking out your responses ahead can save valuable time during an emergency situtation. Clearly the closer to terra firma you are the more valuable each second is. My RV glider experience lasted 12 miles and 8 1/2 minutes as I was fortunately at 9500 MSL when the fan stopped. Hit the GPS "nrt" button, picked the closest airport and turned to it before spending more time trying to figure out "what was wrong". Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 04, 2003
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Another completed RV-6
Congratulation David!!! Richard Dudley DAVID DAVENPORT wrote: > > > Kit # 23811 flew for the first time on Thursday, October 2. For those of > you keeping up with serial #'s, yes, this is an older slow-build from > back in the days when you had to drill everything. These newer guys > don't know what they are missing. The plane has an O-320 w/ a Sensenich > prop, full IFR panel w/ autopilot. Everything looks like it is pretty > straight forward from the first two or three flights. I'll get this test > period knocked out and see you guys at Lakeland in April. > > > > > > > Kit # 23811 flew for the first time on > Thursday, > October 2. For those of you keeping up with serial #'s, yes, this is an > older > slow-build from back in the days when you had to drill everything. These > newer > guys don't know what they are missing. The plane has an O-320 w/ a > Sensenich > prop, full IFR panel w/ autopilot. Everything looks like it is pretty > straight > forward from the first two or three flights. I'll get this test period > knocked > out and see you guys at Lakeland in April. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: New rudder
Date: Oct 05, 2003
For those who don't want to change rudder designs, my local EAA chapter, Ch186 at Manassas VA, has a partially completed RV6 rudder that I'm sure it could easily be persuaded to part with. Dave Reel - RV8A For those who don't want to change rudder designs, my local EAA chapter, Ch186 at Manassas VA,has a partially completed RV6 rudder that I'm sure it could easily be persuaded to part with. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: G meter and turn coordinator(long)
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Ken, I had the DA-55 in the Phoenix. It's a nice instrument and has all the features they say - even has a secret code to keep others from erasing the recordings. With what limited flight time I had on it I liked it and will reinstall it. Mine says it was made by EZE Instruments but I couldn't find a site either. Why not shoot ACS a note and ask for more info? An example of pretty poor marketing by the mfgr. I can scan the manual if you want to get to that depth. As to the TC, you need to decide why you want it since you're not IFR. If you want it to save your ass if you do something stupid then it better work and you better be able to use it without getting used to it first. My original was VFR w/o gyros except for the Navaid which was my backup if I got stupid. I'm now IFR and the Phoenix will be too. BTW, Navaid uses a mechanical gyro but has a digital display. Trutrak is solid state as are all the EFIS. Decide on your mission then pick the equipment. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > Is anyone familiar with the DA-55 digital G meter available > from Aircraft Spruce? Here's a link to the website > http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/inpages/accelerometers.p > hp. Google didn't seem to have anything for a website for the > manufacturer. I'm considering building a digital G meter of > some sort, but if I can buy one with all the features I want, > I would rather pound rivets. > > Also, what's the impression of the built in "turn > coordinator" features of some of the devices like Navaid > autopilot, EZ Pilot autopilot, and the Dynon D-10. It doesn't > appear to be as intuitive as the standard turn coordinator. > Do you eventually get used to it? Is it to much of a trade > off to get the no-moving-parts-reliability? > > I also think a turn coordinator could be built with the > semiconductor accelerometers/gyros, but what's the point if > there is already an instrument out there that works. I can't > think of a way to digitally represent the look of a > mechanical turn coordinator short of somthing similar to the > digital EFIS'. In that case it would be more efficient to get an EFIS. > > I would prefer individual instruments because I personally > think there is just too much information packed into the > available space on the current EFIS'. This seems to be > confirmed somewhat by a couple of recent posts. I'm also not > planning on IFR so I don't need all the insturments packed > into the EFIS. > > Thanks. > > Ken > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2003
From: flmike <flmike2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: New rudder
Just out of curiosity, why the -9 rudder / stab and not the -7? Mike __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Dynon report
Date: Oct 06, 2003
From: "Lockamy, Jack L" <jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil>
Mike (and others), I spoke with an engineer at Dynon this AM about the accuracy/inaccuracy of the EFIS-D10 Internal Mag -vs- the External Magnometer. The engineer I spoke with said +/- 10 degrees is the BEST accuracy they were aware of with the Internal Compass and the External was good to +/- 3-5 degrees. Of course his comments were prefaced with "each panel/installation will vary somewhat depending on what else is the panel which may cause some interference". How accurate do you fee YOUR Internal Compass is -vs- the External? Thanks for your time and your report. Jack Lockamy RV-7A QB Re: RV-List: Dynon report Mike (and others), I spoke with an engineer at Dynon this AM about the accuracy/inaccuracy of the EFIS-D10 Internal Mag -vs- the External Magnometer. The engineer I spoke with said +/- 10 degrees is the BEST accuracy they were aware of with the Internal Compass and the External was good to +/- 3-5 degrees. Of course his comments were prefaced with each panel/installation will vary somewhat depending on what else is the panel which may cause some interference. How accurate do you fee YOUR Internal Compass is -vs- the External? Thanks for your time and your report. Jack Lockamy RV-7A QB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2003
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RE: New rudder
They are now the same thing. See: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb02-6-1.pdf Jeff Point RV-6 panel, wiring Milwaukee, WI flmike wrote: > >Just out of curiosity, why the -9 rudder / stab and >not the -7? > >Mike > >__________________________________ > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: My dead stick
Date: Oct 06, 2003
Mike, Congratulations on a good save. Say hello to Nomad. Chuck Rowbotham RV-8A (Blue Angles) >From: mstewart(at)qa.butler.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: My dead stick >Date: Sun, 5 Oct 2003 21:14:39 -0400 > > >Well since the cat is out of the bag, and my e-mail is getting full with >all >the inquiry's, I have attached our flight debrief from the airshow at SERFI >yesterday for you to read the events. At the end, Ill follow up with some >notes based on the questions I have been getting. >======= >7 ship taxi and takeoff went real well. Our hold outside the box was >a bit long for the show delay, but the only issue I was concerned >about was Nomad making his Delta departure on-time. We watched the >video of the flight extensively last night and surprisingly, the >flight looked real good. We all felt it is a bit ragged as pilots, >but the video proved otherwise. Transitions were smooth, and the >runs to show center were quite good. Then.. at about 400' agl ... >Well, my little engine problem and pitch straight up and out of the >flight. I was very impressed with my instant decision to pull out of >the flight without anyone in the flight knowing there was a problem. >It was nice to see that our training kicked in instantly and the >flight only knew that I was gone with "1's out". > >In summary: >I had about 2 seconds of an alarm beeping at me. I looked at the >instrument and a big fat Zero blinking on the fuel pressure. As I >stared at it confirming I was seeing what I was seeing, I had one >cough from the engine and I made an imediate decision to pull out >and called "1's out". I made a 6 G pull, 130 deg. bank left for a >look see at the runway and called "1's engine out, got the field >made, Nomad you have the flight"(as briefed). Now I did not intend >to pull that hard, but the 50lbs of smoke oil made made me more tail >heavy than I considered at that moment, and I had only ONE concern >at that moment... Get my ass out from this flight so I don't have a >bunch of planes running into me. Airboss keyed up and said "1's >cleared to land." I remember thinking. "Well thats good. Cause Im >landing on that runway right there." I layed in the hardest slip I >could and again keyed up, "I have the field, Jim you have the >flight" Made a nice landing, and rolled off the runway into the >grass while the rest of the flight regrouped and continued on >without me, just as briefed. I got my engine started and taxied >back. Turns out I had a failure in my mechanical fuel pump and had >the breaker pulled for the electric fuel pump(for other reasons too >complicated to explain here). > >Incredible job team for getting it together and pressing on. Our >show was cut short, we had only completed about 1/2 of it, but it >could not had gone ANY better than it did based on the >circumstances. It is a testimate to our trainers (Stu, Subie, Nomad >et al.), and the teams focus and attention to detail. The wingmen >kept their position and the flight did not fall apart. Its >incredible really when you think about it. Most of the on-lookers >did not even know there was a problem. Thank goodness for all you >military guys that have passed on your experiences to us civillian >types. It saved my butt yesterday, and the others in the flight. > >Next show is columbia. >See you there. >Mike >========= >Question? What about the electric pump? Well I had just completed a major >panel change over and had not tested the elec. pump circuit. I left the >breaker pulled before leaving home base that morning. I knew it worked, I >had turned it on after the panel change, I had not changed anything in that >circuit, but just as a matter of my own procedure, I dont turn anything on >until I test the circuit(wire chase, current draw, etc.) on a major change >like a panel overhaul. I pulled the breaker as a reminder to do it. It was >a >mistake for not following up on it sooner. It would not have changed the >circumstances of the pitchout from the flight, but the engine would have >fired back up and I could have put down with my prop making power. >Question? Mike dont you fly with your pump on? Not as a matter of course. >Usually only for acro, take-off and landing. But not that day. We discussed >it during the debrief. Some do and some dont. Hind sight, well yes my elec >fuel pump on would have cured that problem. But we all agreed that a pump >failure like the is so rare, that is is Monday night quarterbacking to now >have all pumps on. We have many more, much higher risk items to deal with >when show flying like that and this one is extremely rare that to burden >all >with one more mental item to do would be detrimental. You want the flight >members to have their mind one a small finite amount of items. You don't >want to add rules for extremely rare items. For example. A tire failure in >a >formation takeoff is a much higher risk item, well somewhat in terms of the >way we take off we try and take it into account, Do we address it really? >No, we take the risk. I know your thinking just put the pump on whats the >big deal. Well i probably will now. But it will not be a flight brief item. >This needs more discussion between us. Much debate here to be had. And I am >sure many will chime in about having the pump on when at low altitude. Ill >probably have my pump running at low altitude next time when my battery >fails on my dual elec ign.. Its hard to manage all the risks. Clearly I >should have had that breaker in and it was a lapse on my part to not have >done so. >Mike how did you have the presense of mind to talk to the flight whilst >your >engine was out? Well quite frankly, once I pitched up and rolled and saw >the >runway, my only concern then was my buddies I left behind. I have seen >formations go to hell from little items. I could not see them as they were >going away from the airport. I was of course heading toward it. They were >not talking as they were busy reconfiguring as briefed. Naturally they were >also worried about me too so they were pretty quiet. We owned the freq.. >But >all I could think about once I saw the runway was the 6 ships I left >behind. >"Were they OK, did I pull hard enough? Was what I was thinking" In the end >I >had nothing to worry about. They were making power and were in good hands >with Nomad (Jim Lawrence.. Lifetime military fighter pilot, formation >flight >lead and check pilot, Delta captain, good man, great stick, and so >forth...) > >Mike why the pitch up so hard? The biggest danger of all is not pulling out >in an engine failure. Although all flight members fly in a stacked down >position, the clearance is minimal (2-4 feet Leader prop to vert fin for >the >guy in the slot for example) and it would not be pretty to the planes >behind >me to have a prop not making power while i continue straight and level. >They >would try by habit to match my speed and well, it would get ugly very very >quickly. As part of our training, the only thing to do, and I mean RIGHT >NOW, is to pull out. The danger in a pull out like that is that the flight >follows you. Thats why the pull out must be abrupt and RIGHT NOW! you don't >want any flight member to have the chance to follow you. 6 g's? No it did >not have to be that hard, but I pulled to get the hell out, it just ended >up >the six is where the needle stopped. Speed at the time was 135kts. Next >time >I'll try and only pull 4.7:) >Mike you guys briefed a lost leader? Yes. And I am glad we did. It is >common >enough for leader to have a problem that the flight needs to be taken >control of imediately to maintain flight dicipline and flight safety. We >don't necessairly brief a lost lead for every flight, but we do when we are >show flying, doing low altitude maneuvering. >Is there anytime during the flight where you would not be able to make the >field? In theory no. We are never low and slow. Low and fast or high and >slow yes. We get pretty slow at the top of our lazy eights during formation >changes. But we work the routine so that at anytime, the field can be had. >This was my first uncommanded engine out, but not my first dead stick >landing. I have practiced several engine outs over big airports and landed >engine out. I wanted to know exactly what my plane felt like when the >engine >was not making power so I have practiced it a few times. There is no >question that my practice did help my calmness during this emergency. You >glider guys know what I'm talking about. > >OK thats it. Let the discussions begin. Ill try and answer other questions >as they come if they are addressed my way. This incident has changed me. >There is no question about that. I am going through a strange mental period >right now. I am sure there is a psyco babble name for the stage I am in. >The >event was actually no problem. The after event mentally has been >challenging. I am so thankful for my mentors who instilled a few key items >in me. I have learned some things. >Regards, >Mike Stewart > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: New rudder
Date: Oct 06, 2003
They are the same.....it's what Van's ships for the -7's now. Cheers, Stein Bruch -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of flmike Subject: RV-List: RE: New rudder Just out of curiosity, why the -9 rudder / stab and not the -7? Mike __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 06, 2003
From: Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: New rudder
Jeff Point wrote: > > They are now the same thing. > > See: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb02-6-1.pdf > That says the "Rudder" on the 7 and 9 are now the same. But I thought I heard somewhere that the VS on the 7 was from the 8 not the 9. -- Chris Woodhouse 3147 SW 127th St. Oklahoma City, OK 73170 405-691-5206 chrisw(at)programmer.net N35 20.492' W97 34.342' "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RE: New rudder
Date: Oct 06, 2003
The rudder is the same now but the stabs are still unique to the dash number. The -9 is a constant chord stab. And, interestingly Van's did not put the new rudder on their demonstrator. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: New rudder > > They are now the same thing. > > See: http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb02-6-1.pdf > > Jeff Point > RV-6 panel, wiring > Milwaukee, WI > > flmike wrote: > > > > >Just out of curiosity, why the -9 rudder / stab and > >not the -7? > > > >Mike



September 29, 2003 - October 06, 2003

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