RV-Archive.digest.vol-ok
October 29, 2003 - November 04, 2003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Install Kit |
Guys
This is a good deal. Wish I had it when I was installing my Dynon. I
spent a lot more money than this and got a lot less (not counting shipping).
Next time I build an airplane, I am going to buy stock in UPS, so at least
I get some of my money back.
As for flying with the Dynon, I am now flying my RV6 much better. Before I
always had problems in a turn by gaining altitude. This thing sure helps
me make turns and stay on altitude. One thing I do not like is the bank
angle indicator marks only goes to about 50 degrees, that is fine for
shallow turns, but for me steep turns do not start until I get to 60+ degrees.
I still have not calibrated the remote compass module. With a GPS, who
needs it?
This Dynon thing is GREAT! I love it.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
>Hi All,
>
>Just a quick note to let you all know that I "FINALLY" got all the
>components together for the Dynon EFIS install kit's I promised awhile ago.
>
>They include connectors, crimper, pins, etc..
>
>Price is $55.00
>http://www.steinair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>
>Hummmph,
>
>Rocket guys who use a slide rule while making perfect landings with pretty
>ladies who own RV-4s....
Yeah, Gummibear must be livin' right. I now will join the "I hate Rocket
Drivers" club with Doug R.
>
>All I can say is "the bad thing about a perfect landing is the next one is
>going to be worse, so be careful" ;{)
Sort of a "glass is half empty" paradigm as applied to landing an aircraft?
:)
>
>
>Brian, thanks for the advice on the tail link clips. Has anyone come up
>with
>an adjustable connector for the chains? My new springs and chains seem to
>be
>different than the old ones, they are either too loose or they are very
>tight, and put some significant preload on the rudder spar.
I don't know of a simple means to fine tune the chain length, either it's
too loose or too tight, from my experience. I prefer the chains to be snug.
The steering arm is made of some pretty beefy metal and the springs are
supposed to take the bumps and bounces. Oh, and the chain link repair clips
aren't an original idea of mine....Doug R gave me the idea one day after he
had just flown into my home airfield in a B-25.
Now I hate Doug too.
Also, be sure to use a thread locker to secure the link nuts once installed.
>
>I am going to try putting AN42B eyebolts on the rudder ends to make the
>chain lay more flat and hopefully fit better. I'll go get the connectors
>you
>mentioned Brian.
I installed those on the rudder horn and they work great. You'll like the
result.
>
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 40051
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
| Subject: | Hartzell Spinner |
Listers,
I have an RV4 with a 360 engine and a hartzell 2-blade CS prop. I am looking
for a metal spinner with a 13 inch back plate. Does anyone have one for sale
or know the part number so that I can look for it somewhere?
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
Wheeler,
I've had good luck on my RV-4 "adjusting" the chain/ spring length as follows:
If the chain is too tight, devise a method to hold one end of the chain/ spring
(off the plane in a vise is preferrable), and pull the hell out of the other
end of the chain several times, thereby fully compressing the spring. It will
slightly shorten the spring a small amount, giving you a "looser" fit.
To tighten up a slightly loose chain, stick a large, flat bladed screwdriver
between each curl in the spring itself, and "pry" them apart. This will have
the opposite effect of slightly increasing the length of the spring, taking out
some slack.
Your mileage may vary, but it's worked for me.
Tom
RV-4
15 years old and 1040 hours...
> Brian, thanks for the advice on the tail link clips. Has anyone come up with
> an adjustable connector for the chains? My new springs and chains seem to be
> different than the old ones, they are either too loose or they are very
> tight, and put some significant preload on the rudder spar.
>
> I am going to try putting AN42B eyebolts on the rudder ends to make the
> chain lay more flat and hopefully fit better. I'll go get the connectors you
> mentioned Brian,
>
> thanks, remind me of this when the call for list donations comes around
> again.
>
> W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric flap motor failures |
HTML_SHOUTING3, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY
Larry,
I just got back from the hanger where I repaired the flap motor. It
too had a greasy black film on the commutator & brushes. Since the "O"
ring on the gearbox end was damaged, I can only suspect that is how the
grease is getting into the motor area. Since I didn't have a
replacement "O" ring, I re-installed the motor with some RTV around the
cleaned "O" ring and the mating metal areas. I'm hoping that this will
prevent the problem from repeating.
In the meantime, I'm going to try to contact the manufacturer to see
if there has been any QC related complaints for this product. My motor
has date stamped 2/8/00, so I doubt if I can get a free replacemnet...
But it might be worth the cost to get a backup motor.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 70+ Hrs
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Electric flap motor failures
The flap motor in my RV6 failed at 8 hours and again at 30 hours.
I could
hear the flap relay click but the motor would not move. Both times
an oily
substance on the brush/armature area caused it to work
intermittently but I never
saw an excess of grease in the motor. The second time I also
found a brush
broken so I'm waiting for a replacement from Van's. BTW make sure
the lock nut
on
the rod end is tight, if it looseness up the arm will unscrew
itself from the
rod end. Ask me how I know. I agree on the necessary tools, I'll
be sure to
carry what I need on board to deal with this if it happens again.
Larry Gagnon
RV6 O360 N6LG
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HUMOR - are bigger engine's Chick Magnets |
- are bigger engine's Chick Magnets?
>
aircraft with bigger engines and more horsepower are
> "Chick Magnets." I think I have some proof.
Now I *Really* can't wait to get my 3 rotor 270 HP RV-8 flying : )
Tracy Crook
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Builder IM Network and bragging points |
For God's sake guys how about cutting this out and get back to RV stuff. I'm
fed up of getting this unrelated NONSENSE!!!!!!!!
Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Stewart <mstewartga(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon EMI update |
Thought I would give you all an update on my Dynon
install now with over 100 hours of use.
The head unit has preformed flawlessly and its
accuracy is simply amazing. I have never felt more
comfortable flying the plane in the soup as i do
flying with this thing in my panel. What is neat about
it is that even in turbulance, it is not bouncing
around like a normal vac gyro would. It only moves
when you do, and does not see ill effects of inertial
forces.
Now the bad news. My self,along with many others, are
experienceing serious EMI (electro magnetic
interference) resulting from the remote compass unit.
I have received many e-mails from others who are
having this problem. Myself, along with others, have
tried various solutions, none solve the problem. The
symptoms of the problem are simply broad band white
noise across the com. Ill bet every plane has the
problem but most don't know it. If you have the remote
compass, try flying and tuning in a distant AWOS or
something with a weak signal, turn your dynon on and
off and hear the difference. The degree to which the
problem exists varies greatly. In my airplane, the
noise will break squelch often and cause terrible
noise on the com. A scan across the com frequencies
will dislay the noise across all frequencies at all
times the remote compass is powered. My local electro
buzzhead friend brought his bag of tools and is
convinced the noise is coming from the Dynon screen
and traveling around in the wiring. The same problem
that Garmin is having with their weather updates (I
have been playing with that stuff too in my neighbors
Mooney. How would you like to be Garmin and taking
back the thousands of wx installs that are not
reliable do to this noise stuff. EEK!.). These screens
put out a bunch of noise.
Dynon suggests a couple of temp fixes.
1. Shield the lines to the compass. (did nothing for
me)
2. power the compass from a different buss. (took
about 30% of the noise out for me.)
I have ended up putting a toggle switch between the
head and the compass so I can kill the power to the
compass at will. If I get noise, which is a lot, I
kill the power and the noise disappears. Of courser my
dynon compass goes whacky when I power down the
compass. But at least my com gets clear and it is a
quick and imediate solution to the noise problem. My
plan is to remove the compass unit and return it. It
is just not workable for me and I am way past tired of
messing with it.
In the end, although i have spent an inordinate amount
of time dealing with this compass issue, I am very
happy with the horizon capibility. I have not gotten
used to the speed and altitude tapes. I still have
steam gauges and i am sure this is why I am not using
the tapes.
Since I have pulled out my vac and gyros, I am
considering putting a second one in. My only fear in
IFR, other than that one prop/engine I have, is that
if the Dynon goes TU, I am down to turn coordinator,
whisky compass, and steam gauges on partial panel to
keep her upright. Not fun in a bouncing RV in the
soup. The cost/benefit of this instrument is so
low/high, that having 2 of these to me, really makes
sense.
Anyway, there is my update.
Mike
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | fastening sliderwindshield |
I'm getting ready to secure in place the windshield for my slider 6. Question
is about attaching and securing the front edge. I have opted to make a removable
windshield fairing which is completed and fits like a glove to the windshield
except in the front where the plex does not touch the top forward skin, it
is about 1/2 inch above the skin so there is some floating of the plex to reach
the fairing. I would like to make a clean, secure, good looking attachment
of the plex to the fairing and top skin. Some have mentioned clips touching
the plex and riveted to the skin, others riveting the fairing and using epoxy
to attach plex to the fairing. Still another would be using Lexel between plex
and fairing, and pop riveting fairing to skin. My concern is the force and
pressure of the air against the plex since I have a 1/2 inch gap where the plex
does not touch the top skin. Any suggestions or opinions as to the best way
to attach forward plex to top skin?
Dave Ford
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan McKeen" <amckeen(at)twcny.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT/CHT probes |
I have an O-320 in my RV-6. At idle all four cylinders run similar EGT and CHT.
At full power climb out #3 cylinder is the highest for CHT and EGT. At cruise
power #1 and #3 consistently are higher CHT and EGT than #2 and #4. During
climb and cruise, #4 is consistently the lowest temperature for both CHT and
EGT. Based on my plane and my observation of it, #3 is most often the highest
CHT and EGT.
Alan McKeen
N418AL
RV-6
O-320
602 Hours on the Hobbs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Great stuff Mike.
You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
>Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse here
>it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
>delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
>
>Mike Robertson
>
>
>HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
>By Mike Robertson
>
>Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
>and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
>some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
>unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO means
>Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
>requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
>there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and equipment
>must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
>somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that this
>article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been issued
>an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
>operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations amended.
>
>Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
>operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
>Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
>airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section 7
>of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built aircraft
>and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
>Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
>
>This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment and
>instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to equipment
>requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of the
>airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
>operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA to
>issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
>safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
>limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered. The
>ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the interest
>of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
>limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations are
>understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI can
>require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
>prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
>
>1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
>2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless appropriately
>equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205, this
>aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
>3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
>under 91.205 must
>be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part 91.
>Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
>aircraft maintenance records.
>
>To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
>What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment is
>prudent or safe?
>
>So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
>effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
>equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
>states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
>that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
>transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states that
>the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
>environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class of
>TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
>the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
>that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment must
>meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested and
>calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
>notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
>equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
>not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you could
>build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
>requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
>
>You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section 91.205(a)
>states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
>safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
>typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
>Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in conjunction
>with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by the
>Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed on
>the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
>that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
>equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
>considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its up
>to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91 requirements
>prior to operating the aircraft.
>
>Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that per
>the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
>appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with
>91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
>Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
>flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night. In
>paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
>day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
>talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated that
>they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the requirements
>of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval from
>the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
>FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about a
>TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states that
>for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if the
>IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
>also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
>system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to be
>used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
>sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock displaying
>hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate capacity,
>a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a gyroscopic
>direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
>91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
>VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
>Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
>pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered aircraft.
>
>So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
>items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must remember
>that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is where
>our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
>amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and your
>family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
>during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
>and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
>Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
>category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the FAA
>through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
>manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
>equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA standards.
>
>In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
>want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first concern
>when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
>certificate.
>
>Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
>patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
>
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Spinner |
In a message dated 10/29/2003 1:45:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,
scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com writes:
Listers,
I have an RV4 with a 360 engine and a hartzell 2-blade CS prop. I am looking
for a metal spinner with a 13 inch back plate. Does anyone have one for sale
or know the part number so that I can look for it somewhere?
Scott
I replaced my fiberglass spinner with an aluminum spinner from GBI
http://www.fly-gbi.com/ It is a direct replacement for Van's fiberglass
spinner. One trick I would like to pass on is how to locate the holes in the
spinner using the existing back plate. I used 1/4" long #8 pointed set screws.
Insert the screws in the backplate from the outside in making them flush
with the outer circumference. After the spinner is cut for the prop and centered
for runout gently turn the set screws into the spinner. This will leave
center marks for each hole. Using this method my spinner runs true.
Cash Copeland
RV6 Hayward, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV4Joe" <rv4joe(at)sofnet.com> |
I just purchased a -4 with 600 hours on it. The canopy has what appears to be a
retaining piston similar to what you find on a hatchback car. It is needs to
be redesigned because when opened, it is putting too much stress on the canopy
frame at the attach point of the 'piston'. I am looking for ways to redesign
this. At Osh 2002, I seem to recall a couple of ingenious solutions, but do not
have any photos and at that time did not have a plane so did not take careful
notes.
Thanks,
Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SoCAL RV RendezVous - Nov. 8 |
RV Enthusiasts,
Due to the wildfires currently raging in Southern California (SoCAL) and the
unfavorable flying weather forecast for this Saturday, Nov. 1, we have decided
to delay the SoCAL RV RendezVous to Saturday, Nov. 8. We assume that our
SoCAL weather will return to its normal sunny, clear self by Nov. 8, and that the
wildfires will be out, or nearly out. RendezVous information and procedures
will remain as before. We will send out a detailed reminder next week.
For those RV enthusiasts who cannot make Nov. 8, we're still planning to have
an informal, unorganized RV hangar-flying session at Cable Airport this
Saturday, Nov. 1. It will be a relatively small, but friendly, gathering. We'll
have free donuts, juice, etc. for morning arrivals. Please drive or fly-in if
you can, Safely!
Bottom Line: THE RV SHOW MUST GO ON!
EVENT: SoCAL RV RendezVous
NEW DATE: Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003
TIME: 9am to 4pm
LOCATION: Cable Airport (KCCB), Upland, CA (http://www.cableairport.com)
Best Regards,
Gary Sobek
SoCAL RV RendezVous Chairman
EAA Technical Counselor, AB DAR-elect
RV-6 N157GS
Bill Palmer
RendezVous Marketing and Communications Officer
RV-8A QB In-Progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon EMI update |
I have the Dynon and external mag sensor. About 50 hours on the unit and
probably 30 on the mag sensor. I have a KX-155 Nav/Com. I can hear a small
difference in the noise when the Dynon is on vs off, but it is not a problem
at all my mag cable and power cable are shielded.
My horizon works good, but not as good as Mike reports, mine will "quiver"
from time to time, especially in turbulence.
I too am very happy! This is a great instrument and a great value.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tailwheel chains |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Awww geez, somebody was whining about getting back to building topics... and I
thought this list was just for BS'ing.
Anyway, regarding the chain length on your tailwheel, loose is better than tight.
Don't fret too much here, just take out one chain length from being tight
and call it good.
If your chains hit the bottom of your rudder, you can add the eyebolts to the rudder
horns and tailwheel bellcrank if you like. And make sure to put your springs
on the tailwheel end, even though they look nicer on the top end. And if
the chains still scratch the paint off of your rudder, cover the chains with
shrink tubing. You can get shrink tubing at your electrical supply store and
it comes in many colors including clear.
IMHO, throw those funny teardrop shaped wire links that Van supplied in the trash.
I've seen too many of them come undone.
Have fun... at least you know that you put the little wheel on the correct end.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
>
>
>Where I'm trying to puzzle out the details is with respect to things like
>the new integrated LED position lights which Bill VonDane and Bill Dube are
>making available. While I am unsure as of yet whether I'm going to build
>my RV for IFR or not, I don't want to make choices which categorically rule
>IFR operation out. I _do_ know I like the perceived higher reliability
>that the LED solution seems to bring to the table.
First, let me say that if the LED lights don't meet FAA specs, or
don't fulfill your needs, send them back to me and I will gladly refund
your money. I have had zero complaints or problems to this point. Everyone
seems to be very happy with them.
I think that your quote from Mike answers your own question. He
correctly stated:
>For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed on
>the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved.
If you assemble the kit according to the instruction, the LED
lights more than meet the FAA specs, so there should be no problems. Also,
with the kit, I supply a table showing the required candlepower at each
angle and step-by-step instructions on how to measure the light output and
compare it with the requirement. Thus, if you follow the instructions, you
have everything you need to pass muster with the FAA.
I also should note that all you have to do is look at the lights
and there will be no question in your mind that they are bright enough. The
second time I brought my lights to a meeting, the tech councilor at my
local EAA chapter (301) said, "Please don't point those directly at me. I
don't want to see spots all night like last time." :-)
Looking forward,
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
Joe,
I have the exact same problem in my RV-4.
I am planning on making a "box" structure out of sheet metal to reinforce the
canopy structure there. I really can't describe it, but I'l send you pictures
when I'm done.
Pedro
RV4Joe wrote:
I just purchased a -4 with 600 hours on it. The canopy has what appears to be a
retaining piston similar to what you find on a hatchback car. It is needs to
be redesigned because when opened, it is putting too much stress on the canopy
frame at the attach point of the 'piston'. I am looking for ways to redesign
this. At Osh 2002, I seem to recall a couple of ingenious solutions, but do not
have any photos and at that time did not have a plane so did not take careful
notes.
Thanks,
Joe
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fastening sliderwindshield |
Hi Dave-
I'm right at the point of doing that on my tip-up and have the same gap in the
center. I've laid a length of 3/8" vinyl tubing snugly between the plexi and
skin on the inside along the area of the gap, about 20" long. This will provide
a seal between the plexi & skin for a fillet of micro/flox slurry injected
into the gap from the front. I would have done this last night if the tube of
black coloring agent (Evercoat 508) had shown up!
I don't know if anyone else has done this, but it seems like it should work. Does
this make sense or anyone see any pitfalls here?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
Dave Ford wrote:
>
> I'm getting ready to secure in place the windshield for my slider 6. Question
is about attaching and securing the front edge. I have opted to make a removable
windshield fairing which is completed and fits like a glove to the windshield
except in the front where the plex does not touch the top forward skin,
it is about 1/2 inch above the skin so there is some floating of the plex to reach
the fairing. I would like to make a clean, secure, good looking attachment
of the plex to the fairing and top skin. Some have mentioned clips touching
the plex and riveted to the skin, others riveting the fairing and using epoxy
to attach plex to the fairing. Still another would be using Lexel between plex
and fairing, and pop riveting fairing to skin. My concern is the force and
pressure of the air against the plex since I have a 1/2 inch gap where the plex
does not touch the top skin. Any suggestions or opinions as to the best way
to attach forward plex to top skin?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: HUMOR - are bigger engine's Chick Magnets |
This has gone on long enough..... and I hate to shine reality on all the
delusions you all have, but the truth is..... It doesn't matter if you have
a V1650, 1- R-2800 or 2-R2600s, if you want a chick magnet, go to the Lake.
Back in my single days I attracted more chick attention with a 5hp Johnson
on my 23' Columbia sailboat (and yes I mean the outboard) in one weekend,
than all the flying I have ever done combined.
Sorry guys, Sometimes the truth hurts....
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 and 20 years with the same old Columbia 23' Ahhh, the memories........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | paint and engine exhaust |
I am painting a friends RV-8 and have a question about painting the
bottom of the plane directly in the path of the engine exhaust stacks.
THe plane has about 100 hours on it and you can tell the aluminum has
gotten hot because of the bluish tint of the aluminum.
Should this area be left un-painted, painted with high temp paint or
just go ahead and paint it with the same PPG Concept that the rest of
the plane is painted with?
My thoughts are to leave the area in the reverse air scoop that exhausts
the cowling air, and where the exhaust pipes exit, aluminum but paint
everything else.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A working on second wing panel and painting an RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Hartzell Spinner |
menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com
I received a message asking for clarification on how I mounted an aluminum
spinner on an existing backplate.
This is my reply in case anyone else had a question.
Cash Copeland
RV6 Hayward, Ca
Hi Mark,
I used #8 allen head set screws that have a point. You start them backwards,
point facing out, from the outside in till they are flush. Then screw them
out from the inside to make a mark on the inside of the spinner. I used the
old fiberglass spinner as template to cut the aluminum spinner. When I
fabricated the fiberglass spinner I used poster board to make templates of the
prop
contour. I found that the metal spinner cutout was a little different than the
glass spinner so I trimmed it to fit. I did not use screws in the front
bulkhead. Spacers are used to move the front bulkhead into position for a snug
fit
with the spinner. Flap anti-chafe tape is used between the front bulkhead
and the spinner to prevent fretting.
Hope this helps
Cash Copeland
In a message dated 10/30/2003 6:52:09 AM Pacific Standard Time,
menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com writes:
Hi Cash,
I have one of the metal Orndorff spinners that I have not mounted yet and
have a couple questions. One is, what kind of #8 screws are you using to
secure the metal spinner? Panhead, flathead, flathead w/ Tinnerman
washers, etc? Second, do you have a Hartzell prop and if so do you have a
template for the cutouts, or did you just do it by trial and error? I know
Sensenich provides a template to cutout spinners for their props but I have
not seen the same for the Hartzell...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
My airplane is painted with white PPG Concept. I haven't noticed any heat
discoloration nor exhaust residue in 75hrs. I have the Vetterman crossover
exhaust system.
Cash Copeland
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 10/30/2003 10:14:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
newtech(at)newtech.com writes:
I am painting a friends RV-8 and have a question about painting the
bottom of the plane directly in the path of the engine exhaust stacks.
THe plane has about 100 hours on it and you can tell the aluminum has
gotten hot because of the bluish tint of the aluminum.
Should this area be left un-painted, painted with high temp paint or
just go ahead and paint it with the same PPG Concept that the rest of
the plane is painted with?
My thoughts are to leave the area in the reverse air scoop that exhausts
the cowling air, and where the exhaust pipes exit, aluminum but paint
everything else.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A working on second wing panel and painting an RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel clips |
Doug Gray wrote:
>
>I have seen one RV in this country without any interconnect from the
>rudder to tail wheel.
>
>For that matter the DHC Chipmunk I did my aerobatic training in had no
>linkage by design. The only times I missed it was when I had a brake
>failure while taxying downhill around a bend. Taxying in a very stiff
>crosswind was a non event, dragging a brake and adding power easily
>compensated for the lack of rudder authority.
>
>I'll certainly give it a try without, when the day finally comes.
>
>Doug Gray
>RV-6 fuse in Oz
>
snipped
I flew a Globe Swift without chains for almost 200 hrs. I've also flown
2 different RV-4's (with old-style tailwheels) for a total of around 8
years without chains. The only negative issue is losing a brake in a
stiff crosswind. In that case you are likely to find the weeds anyway.
I'm not telling anyone to do it, but I do know that they handle fine
without them.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
| Subject: | Tip up v slider - again!!! |
Geoff wrote : -
Subject: RV-List: Tip-Up vs. Slider
Could some kind folk out there give me their comments re. going with
a tip-up vs. slider canopy? About to buy Fusel.
Boy this one ranks right up there with nosewheel v realman butt dragger and your
favourite flavour of primer. I presume you have checked the archives? There's
rich material and lot's of impartial unbiased opinions in there (as if!).
My .02 - fly each kind. If the view is more important than what some misguided
folks consider 'cool looks' on the ground you'll make the intelligent choice
and build a tipper. This also happens to be the choice of most of the guys at
Van's according to a recent RVator, (you do read this too right?). It won't
hurt at all that with the tipper all of your wiring behind the panel and future
mods as well will be far and away easier to do.
Good luck
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
Steve,
We painted our 8A prior to engine start. We have not had any problems with
the paint.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (200 + hours)
>From: Steven Eberhart <newtech(at)newtech.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
>Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 12:08:52 -0600
>
>
>I am painting a friends RV-8 and have a question about painting the
>bottom of the plane directly in the path of the engine exhaust stacks.
>THe plane has about 100 hours on it and you can tell the aluminum has
>gotten hot because of the bluish tint of the aluminum.
>
>Should this area be left un-painted, painted with high temp paint or
>just go ahead and paint it with the same PPG Concept that the rest of
>the plane is painted with?
>
>My thoughts are to leave the area in the reverse air scoop that exhausts
>the cowling air, and where the exhaust pipes exit, aluminum but paint
>everything else.
>
>Steve Eberhart
>RV-7A working on second wing panel and painting an RV-8
>
>
Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon EMI update |
Question. Are you also only really *using* the attitude indicator and not
really using the rest of the info as Mike seemed to be implying he was? Mike
said he still used the other steam gauges for everything else, whatever that
means.
When I see the unit, it looks like it would be hard to use the tape & digital
readouts due to their size and the display realestate being relatively small.
The impression I have is it looks like a neat option for IFR equipped planes
that don't want to fool with a vacuum attitude indicator and want backups for
the other steam gauges but not really right to be the primary display for VFR
guys who want to do away with round gauges all together.
thx,
lucky
In a message dated 10/30/2003 8:10:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dougr(at)petroblend.com writes:
I have the Dynon and external mag sensor. About 50 hours on the unit and
probably 30 on the mag sensor. I have a KX-155 Nav/Com. I can hear a small
difference in the noise when the Dynon is on vs off, but it is not a problem
at all my mag cable and power cable are shielded.
My horizon works good, but not as good as Mike reports, mine will "quiver"
from time to time, especially in turbulence.
I too am very happy! This is a great instrument and a great value.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | paint and engine exhaust |
> I am painting a friends RV-8 and have a question about painting the
> bottom of the plane directly in the path of the engine
> exhaust stacks.
> THe plane has about 100 hours on it and you can tell the aluminum has
> gotten hot because of the bluish tint of the aluminum.
The discoloration is probably deposits, or simply aluminum oxide
resulting from the deposits, rather than being from heat. Most solvents
don't remove the exhaust deposits, but Simple Green does (yeah, yeah, I
know, the airframe will corrode using that stuff and fall out of the sky
- use it just this once to see if the junk will clean off). If it
doesn't clean it, it is probably oxide. Painting the area should be a
non-issue with respect to heat.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow(at)fedex.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight (no, not the Wrights...) |
Well, the FAA came out Tuesday Oct 28 and told me that I had an airplane instead
of a kit. Yesterday we proved them correct...
After a 7 year gestation and 10 month labor and delivery, RV-8A
"N-8-8-9-Bravo-Sierra" (S/N 80077) took to the skies on a crystal clear Fall
afternoon in Memphis, TN. But more about that after the important stuff (the
thank-yous and acknowledgments!)
First off, I thank God for a safe day. All I prayed for (okay, perhaps "begged"
and "pleaded" would be a little more accurate) was a safe, non-event first flight,
and that is what we had.
Second goes to Lisa and the kids. When we first got into this project, it was with
the anticipation that Lisa would be going back to a paid job (notice that I
managed NOT to imply that staying home with the kids was not work!). Anyway, as
most of you know, plans changed and now she still is at home, homeschooling three
kids. For those of you that are at all familiar with aviation, you know it is not
cheap. Thus, it is needless to say that this aircraft makes things pretty tight
financially around the house. And yet not once - and I mean not once - has the
burden ever come up in any, ah... financial "discussions" we have had along the
way. That level of support is huge. Secondarily, the support, help, and
encouragement from her and the kids has been invaluable. Finally, add to that the
patience over the last two months. While over the length of this project I think
I
have done a good job not letting it interfere with the home/kid/spouse life, the
same cannot be said for the last two months. Pretty much all I have done is go
to
work and then go to the airport. Fortunately the kids have bikes and toys out
there, so they were able to spend a lot of time there as well, but obviously it
is
a strain nonetheless.
Third goes to Jerry Carter. Jerry is also an RV-8A builder and owner at Charles
Baker Airport who has spent the last six months encouraging me on how "easy" this
thing is to fly. Jerry's aircraft is essentially configured exactly as mine. We
had talked about me getting some time in his, but then he actually came out at
the
end of my inspection and essentially said, when you are done here, come over and
let's fly. So I went over, he put me in the pilot's seat and let me fly his
aircraft for an hour doing take offs, landings, etc. - the things I would need
to
be able to fly my own. The confidence boost from that alone was huge. Then he
topped it off by offering to do the first flight on mine (greatly simplifying
things for me logistically as a friend from Atlanta was originally going to do
the
flight). It is kind of funny - my stomach had been in knots since the inspection,
and Jerry met me at the airport yesterday completely unconcerned.
Fourth goes to Steve Denton, A&P extrordinaire. Steve is the one who first came
out to inspect some of the critical systems (i.e., fuel!!) and then help me with
first engine start. Steve then came out to help with weighing etc. of the aircraft
- not to mention being just around the corner at work for endless questions!
Fifth goes to everyone else who has contributed along the way. So many have
contributed ideas, advice, opinion, wiring diagrams - you wouldn't believe how
helpful and needed this was. A project of this magnitude is something you simply
cannot accomplish alone. The counsel of those who have helped along the way have
without a doubt helped make Bravo Sierra a safer aircraft.
THE FLIGHTS
As I mentioned, Jerry took the first flight. It was a very weird feeling watching
my aircraft taxi away, then take off, with someone else in it! The whole idea here
was to get it up in the air, monitor critical instruments, aircraft
controllability and feel, engine performance, and then do some basic stall work
to
establish what the pattern (i.e., landing) speeds needed to be. Jerry did that
and
came back with the report that - as he expected - my aircraft flew just like his.
We pulled the top cowl off to check for leaks etc. and discovered a slight oil
leak out of the oil cooler, but that was it.
So - armed with the confidence from flying Jerry's aircraft and knowing that mine
flew just like his, it was my turn. My only intent was to get up in the air, do
a
short flight, and then land - and that is what I did. It was kind of strange. I
thought there would be all of this emotion and excitement, but there was not. I
was too busy monitoring instruments, listening and feeling the aircraft out. I
went out and did some basic turns, climbs, and descents, and then came back to
the
airport. The aircraft felt good and even natural - just as Jerry's had. Once I
finally got in the aircraft, the pent-up nervousness of the previous 24 hours
finally evaporated - even for that all important first landing.
Only now is it beginning to sink in that I have in fact completed this project
(okay, except for paint and a few other items!), that it flies well, and that I
can fly it well. Transitioning to my old Cessna 140 was more difficult and
nerve-wracking than this. The only squawk was the previously mentioned oil cooler
leak - and Vans Aircraft is already sending out a replacement.
For those interested, total construction time was 1553 hours over a 7 year period.
However, most of that time was in the last couple years (621 hours in 2003 and
340
in 2002).
Finally, for those that are wondering if I will ever build anything like this
again - the answer is "NO!!!" I am a pilot first and a builder second, and now
it
is time to do the pilot thing...
csb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <rvl(at)davepar.com> |
| Subject: | Email list vs. Web forum |
As long as were discussing IM (ok, the discussion got way off IM), I was wondering why such an active discussion is happening over an email list. How about a web-based discussion forum? A very active one is the TiVo forum: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/. Web forums make it much easier to follow a thread of conversation, much easier to search, and much easier for one to ignore conversations. Plus our email addresses wouldn't be posted on the web for every spambot in the universe to pick up.Often they even have an area for off-topic discussions (Date yourself by your first computer).
Just a thought.
Dave
RV-7A Empennage, Seattle
http://www.dualrudder.com/rv7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel chains |
Hello List.
I have seen all the talk about tail wheel springs, nobody has come up with
right answer.
Here is the right way to do it. Set a bench under the tail of the A/C have
a friend push the rudder petals left and right, the rudder must be able to
hit the rudder stops on the aft side of the fuselage.If there is slack in
the chains when the rudder is against the stops, tighten them up, if you
can't hit the stops the chain is to tight. You want them as tight as
possible but you must be able to hit the stops. This affect your ability to
land in cross winds. Simple as that.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>>I am painting a friends RV-8 and have a question about painting the
>>bottom of the plane directly in the path of the engine
>>exhaust stacks.
>>THe plane has about 100 hours on it and you can tell the aluminum has
>>gotten hot because of the bluish tint of the aluminum.
>
>
> The discoloration is probably deposits, or simply aluminum oxide
> resulting from the deposits, rather than being from heat. Most solvents
> don't remove the exhaust deposits, but Simple Green does (yeah, yeah, I
> know, the airframe will corrode using that stuff and fall out of the sky
> - use it just this once to see if the junk will clean off). If it
> doesn't clean it, it is probably oxide. Painting the area should be a
> non-issue with respect to heat.
When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
with all that drag.
So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I have
found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort. The
degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every rivet
hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly anymore.....
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
north Alabama)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Canopy Manufacturers visit. |
I just got back from picking up my custom color 7 canopy from the supplier
of all of Van's canopies. The company is called Airplane Plastics,
937-669-2677. They are located on the north side of Dayton, OH. The first
thing I saw when I walked into the shop was a beautiful F1 canopy which
happened to be the same color as my 7 canopy. It started a little darker
but the F1 canopy is stretched more that the 6/7 canopy so it lightens up to
the 2404 that I am using............I started drooling on the spot. Hanging
above the oven was what turned out to the the radar imaging canopy of the
joint strike fighter.......pretty neat. Molds and frames were all over the
place with a stack of 6/7 canopies tucked away in one corner with two in
different states of completion. They had the initial 10 mold with an
acrylic sheet in it. Greg and Becky both said it needs some tweaking before
they finalize the jig/mold assembly. It was neat to see the various ways
canopies are made from blowing......really sucking to pre molding and the
wet mold method they use on 6/7 canopies due to the flat surface areas on
these. He told me how many canopies they send to Van's and I ain't
telling.........you'll have to go there and visit.
With winter coming up I thought I would relay a word of advice they
animatedly mentioned. I know Dan has a picture of doing it on his website
but Becky said under no circumstances should one use a space heater to heat
the canopy prior to working on it. They told me acrylic has memory and can
flat spot quite easily......Dan, they said you got lucky:-). Greg told me
the acrylic they use has such a memory that if a canopy blown, such as the
F1 canopy, does not come out to specs they can reheat the canopy which
flattens it out and reblow the sheet and get results as if it had not been
blown the first time. The recommended procedure is leave the canopy in the
house overnight, heat your shop up in the morning and bring the 70 degree
canopy into the shop and start working. I'm just repeating what I was told
and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I can't even act like
an expert.
As for cleaning, they say don't use 409, acetone, window sprays,
concentrated alcohols or anything with ammonia. They say to remove "sticky
stuff" with mineral spirits, kerosene, white gas, naptha or isopropy
alcohol. After using any of the above, wash solvents off with Dawn
dishwashing liquid and water followed by a clear water rinse.
I had a great time talking with them and seeing their process. They are
only 5 minutes off i75 on the north side of Dayton. If you are in the area
I would encourage you to give them a call and stop by and see their
operation. Great people also.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
Gabe A Ferrer wrote:
>
>On my O360 the #3 cylinder is the hottest. Cylinder EGT varies depending on how
much I lean the engine. Hottest cylinder EGT varies from flight to flight and
during any given flight. I haven't figured out why.
>
>Gabe A Ferrer
>RV6 N2GX 83 hours
>South Florida
>Email: ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
>Cell: 561 758 8894
>Night Phone: 561 622 0960
>Fax: 561 622 0960
>
Hi Gabe (you were missed at Tracy's last weekend),
If your engine is carburated the hot cylinder can change with throttle
setting due to fuel distribution variations caused by the throttle
butterfly.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tailwheel clips |
I flew a hi-horse hot rod for about 200 hours with no connection, it has a
bunch of "caster" I think is the correct term, (the pivot was tipped forward
and it had a centering tendency, pulling back on the stick increased the
centering force and bent the spring which increased the "caster" which
increased the centering tendency even more. To turn, you just pushed
forward on the stick. It was a very stable system on a very hot little
airplane.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie & Tupper England" <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tailwheel clips
>
> Doug Gray wrote:
>
> >
> >I have seen one RV in this country without any interconnect from the
> >rudder to tail wheel.
> >
> >For that matter the DHC Chipmunk I did my aerobatic training in had no
> >linkage by design. The only times I missed it was when I had a brake
> >failure while taxying downhill around a bend. Taxying in a very stiff
> >crosswind was a non event, dragging a brake and adding power easily
> >compensated for the lack of rudder authority.
> >
> >I'll certainly give it a try without, when the day finally comes.
> >
> >Doug Gray
> >RV-6 fuse in Oz
> >
> snipped
>
> I flew a Globe Swift without chains for almost 200 hrs. I've also flown
> 2 different RV-4's (with old-style tailwheels) for a total of around 8
> years without chains. The only negative issue is losing a brake in a
> stiff crosswind. In that case you are likely to find the weeds anyway.
>
> I'm not telling anyone to do it, but I do know that they handle fine
> without them.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | VS rib to spar gap |
Hi rvators,
I have been trying to rivet my VS ribs to the forward spar for a while now.
(RV-9, but same VS in 7 and 8) After some learning curve on the rivet gun,
my only remaining problem is that a gap forms between the rib and spar as I
drive the rivet. This happens whether I squeeze or buck, and I am putting the
shop head on the thin side where applicable. And I am keeping things as
clamped together as I think is possible, though it is difficult with the spar
flange in the way.
The gap isn't big but it is definitely there. I don't have a feeler gauge,
but I'd estimate it at .02". If I drill these out again I am going to have to
go to the next size rivet :(
I'm already using swelled rivets.
I just missed Van's call-in hours...anyone else out there have this problem?
Sick of drilling out good (and bad) rivets,
Paul
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon EMI update |
RV8ter(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> When I see the unit, it looks like it would be hard to use the tape & digital
> readouts due to their size and the display realestate being relatively small.
> The impression I have is it looks like a neat option for IFR equipped planes
> that don't want to fool with a vacuum attitude indicator and want backups for
> the other steam gauges but not really right to be the primary display for VFR
> guys who want to do away with round gauges all together.
>
After flying the Dynon for several hours, I think it would work just
fine in a VFR aircraft as the primary display. Matter of fact, that is
what it is in my RV-6 that is still only flown in VMC. A photo of the
latest version of the panel in N399SB is near the top of this page:
http://thervjournal.com
Yes, you will need some acclimation if going from needles to a digital
display. For nearly 500 hrs the only altimeter and airspeed indicators
in my plane was the RMI uEncoder; it took a few hours to get accustomed
to flying via digits instead of needles, but once my brain was
recalibrated, I became very comfortable with the preciseness of the
digital readout.
In my opinion, the airspeed readout and tape on the Dynon is very
acceptable; it is the altimeter tape and readout that is more difficult
to read at a glance since the "hundreds" digits are small in order to
fit them into the available space. For VFR this is fine, but I would not
want to have to squint at the tape in IMC. I have disabled the digital
altimeter readout in the Dynon since I still have the uEncoder. The tape
is still used since it is sorta neat to be able to set "bugs" on the tape.
I think some of the slight "jitter" of the horizon that has been
mentioned is due to the digital nature of the display. When the horizon
tilts a couple of pixels or so, it is much more noticeable than the
smooth and barely detectable motion of a mechanical horizon. It could be
that a little more tweaking of the display will smooth out the movement
so it will more closely mimic the movement of an old-fashioned gyro. I
am confident the Dynon gang will aggressively pursue refinement of their
baby.
I continue to be impressed with what Dynon has been able to accomplish
with relatively inexpensive hardware.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | paint and engine exhaust |
Sam,
How much faster did it get when you trimmed the exhaust?
Ed Holyoke
>When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
with all that drag.
>So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I have
found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort. The
degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every rivet
hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly
anymore.....
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
north Alabama)
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip up v slider - again!!! |
>> Could some kind folk out there give me their comments re. going with
>> a tip-up vs. slider canopy? About to buy Fusel.
>
> My .02 - fly each kind. If the view is more important than what some
misguided > folks consider 'cool looks' on the ground you'll make the
intelligent choice and > build a tipper. This also happens to be the
choice of most of the guys at Van's
> according to a recent RVator, (you do read this too right?). It won't
hurt at all
> that with the tipper all of your wiring behind the panel and future mods
as well will > be far and away easier to do.
When I built my RV-6A, I went through the pros and cons of both versions.
The one big question I had for the slider was whether one could open it in
flight as I could with my Cheetah. Of course, I could not. That told me
the framework wasn't as strong as I felt it should be. After having done
both kinds of canopy versions, I've still got to favor the tip up over the
slider. Granted, the slider is so much more macho looking; but, the tip up
is a much nicer installation to do. I really do like the ability to work on
my goodies behind the panel without much trouble. I quickly found out that
working behind the panel on a slider is a real problem, just as it was on my
Cheetah. When I build my next one, if it isn't the -10, I'll do the tip up
again.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> How much faster did it get when you trimmed the exhaust?
>
> Ed Holyoke
Not sure of the numbers Ed, but its gotta be a lot faster. I mean, those
turned down pipes were hangin' right out in the wind, and as fast as a
RV flies, we all know how just a little streamlining goes a long way. It
just looks a LOT faster when you sight down the fuse and can't see those
pipes because they are tucked up in the canopy air exit. Also, the way
the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
producing several more horsepower.
It sorta reminds me of the speed I picked up when I got rid of those
draggy ol' tailwheel springs and chains and installed one of Terry
Jantzi's slick tailwheel linkages. I could almost hear the wind hissing
by the tail once those clanky spring and chains were gone.
The guys at the hangar are convinced that my plane is one of the fastest
RV-6's around because of the speed mods, and they know I would never
tell them anything that isn't true.
Sam Buchanan
==================
>
>
>>When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
>
> was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
> couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
> stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
> with all that drag.
>
>
>>So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
>
> exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
> hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
> concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I have
> found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort. The
> degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
> Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
> plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
> Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
> piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every rivet
>
> hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly
> anymore.....
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
> north Alabama)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
You mentioned "keeping things as clamped together as I think is possible" -
If you aren't using "vise-grip clamps" you aren't.
It was exactly that kind of problem, and ribs being "twisted" by the drill
after it went through skin into rib - or spar - that made me get really
serious about clamping - had only been using cleco clamps and other wimpy
things. Even C-clamps aren't as good as a vise-grip clamp (the smaller
size - I bought 2 of them and that was enough for everything else).
David Carter
RV-6
Nederland, Texas
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <abstraction(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: VS rib to spar gap
>
> Hi rvators,
> I have been trying to rivet my VS ribs to the forward spar for a while
now.
> (RV-9, but same VS in 7 and 8) After some learning curve on the rivet
gun,
> my only remaining problem is that a gap forms between the rib and spar as
I
> drive the rivet. This happens whether I squeeze or buck, and I am putting
the
> shop head on the thin side where applicable. And I am keeping things as
> clamped together as I think is possible, though it is difficult with the
spar
> flange in the way.
> The gap isn't big but it is definitely there. I don't have a feeler
gauge,
> but I'd estimate it at .02". If I drill these out again I am going to
have to
>
> go to the next size rivet :(
> I'm already using swelled rivets.
> I just missed Van's call-in hours...anyone else out there have this
problem?
>
> Sick of drilling out good (and bad) rivets,
> Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1/4" - 28 Threaded Shank Drill Bits / Scotch-Brite Wheels |
- 40% SAVINGS
--- Garey Wittich wrote:
> FOR YOUR BUILDING NEEDS:
>
> 1) 1/4"-28 THREADED SHANK DRILL BITS, Size #40
> NEW
> * Used with Angle Air Drills and Flexible
> Drill Attachments, etc.
> * NEW from Northrup / Grumman Aircraft Co.
> * 2 1/8" Long, 135 Degree Split Point, High
> Speed Steel
> * YOUR PRICE $1.50 each (Avery Part #4140,
> $2.70 each)
>
> 2) NAS907 Type B Drill Bits, Size #30 NEW
> * High Speed, Nitride Oxide coated for
> enhanced abrasion resistance
> * Recommended for Stainless Steel, hard
> Steel, Titanium, etc.
> * NEW from Northrup / Grumman Aircraft Co.
> * 135 degree Split Point
> * 2 3/4" long
> * YOUR PRICE $1.00 each
>
> 3) DEBURRING WHEEL (aka Scotch Brite Wheel)
> * NEW from Northrup / Grumman Aircraft Co.
> * Used to Radius, Deburr & Smooth edges on
> Aluminum parts using a Die Grinder, etc.
> * 7A Medium Grit, Aluminum Oxide
> (The "ONE" recommended by Van's Aircraft)
> * 1" dia x 1" high with 3/16" hole for
> Mandrel (Mandrel not supplied)
> * YOUR PRICE $3.25 each (Avery Part #3700,
> $5.00 each)
>
> Minimum Order $10.00 POSTAGE INCLUDED
>
> Indicate interest OFF LINE by E-Mail. Supplies
> Limited
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | paint and engine exhaust |
Makes sense. I was just wondering if you'd done speed runs to try and
quantify the difference. Tracy Saylor told me he thought that he was
getting some augmentation affect also from the shortened pipes in the
cooling air exit area after he cut his. I can't remember how many knots
he said he got out of it, but he did say that he shortened his pipes
several times and his plane got faster each time.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> How much faster did it get when you trimmed the exhaust?
>
> Ed Holyoke
Not sure of the numbers Ed, but its gotta be a lot faster. I mean, those
turned down pipes were hangin' right out in the wind, and as fast as a
RV flies, we all know how just a little streamlining goes a long way. It
just looks a LOT faster when you sight down the fuse and can't see those
pipes because they are tucked up in the canopy air exit. Also, the way
the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
producing several more horsepower.
It sorta reminds me of the speed I picked up when I got rid of those
draggy ol' tailwheel springs and chains and installed one of Terry
Jantzi's slick tailwheel linkages. I could almost hear the wind hissing
by the tail once those clanky spring and chains were gone.
The guys at the hangar are convinced that my plane is one of the fastest
RV-6's around because of the speed mods, and they know I would never
tell them anything that isn't true.
Sam Buchanan
==================
>
>
>>When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
>
> was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
> couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
> stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
> with all that drag.
>
>
>>So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
>
> exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
> hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
> concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I
have
> found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort.
The
> degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
> Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
> plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
> Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
> piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every
rivet
>
> hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly
> anymore.....
>
> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
> north Alabama)
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Hi everyone,
On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time, I
flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a near
perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and all
engine instruments were gone.
Not knowing anything about how she would fly during approach, I was
committed to some seat of the pants flying. I continued climb to 5,500
making turns over the airport and started my slow flight work. Again Cappy
s Toy flew like a dream. 75 MPH clean, 70 MPH flap and 65 MPH full flap,
not even a suggestion of stall. Next I started descent and again tested her
at all thee configurations. I decided on flaps for landing with a final
approach speed of 80 MPH.
The landing went quite well with no control problems, but during the landing
roll the engine quit. Thanks to a great ground crew we pushed her clear in
a very short time and back to the hanger. We determined the EIS problem was
probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
auto shutdown. The engine quit because the idle mixture screw was missing.
It must have been set to far back and worked its way out. When the engine
slowed to idle after landing the mixture was way to rich and the engine
flooded .
A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
awesome ride.
Steve Glasgow
Charlotte, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bad Cat Aviation <rmill2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations Steve!
Like soloing, your first flight is a day you will never forget. You'll get those
little bugs worked out in very short order and will be able to hit all the
airshows in style next year. Here's an electronic atta boy for a job well done.
Welcome to the club!
Rob Miller N262RM "Bad Cat" -8 150 hours
visit us at www.badcataviation.com
Steve Glasgow wrote:
Hi everyone,
On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time, I
flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a near
perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and all
engine instruments were gone.
Not knowing anything about how she would fly during approach, I was
committed to some seat of the pants flying. I continued climb to 5,500
making turns over the airport and started my slow flight work. Again Cappy
s Toy flew like a dream. 75 MPH clean, 70 MPH flap and 65 MPH full flap,
not even a suggestion of stall. Next I started descent and again tested her
at all thee configurations. I decided on flaps for landing with a final
approach speed of 80 MPH.
The landing went quite well with no control problems, but during the landing
roll the engine quit. Thanks to a great ground crew we pushed her clear in
a very short time and back to the hanger. We determined the EIS problem was
probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
auto shutdown. The engine quit because the idle mixture screw was missing.
It must have been set to far back and worked its way out. When the engine
slowed to idle after landing the mixture was way to rich and the engine
flooded .
A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
awesome ride.
Steve Glasgow
Charlotte, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Why do we use VariPrime? |
Hi All,
Getting ready to start building (attended the George Orndoff's (sp?) class last
weekend - great experience!) and now I'm doing some homework w/ regards to
primers, tools, and such.
I've been reviewing manufacturer's spec sheets for various products and looking
them over. To my surprise, while reading DuPont's VariPrime tech manual it
clearly states under "Tips for Success" that "For optimum holdout and
performance, VariPrime 615S/625S" must always be primed or sealed prior to
topcoat application". So I called up DuPont and spoke to their tech support
(1-800-338-7668) and they were very firm that VariPrime should NOT be left
alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and 2)
it's very porous when left alone. So are VariPrime users putting something on
top that I'm not aware of? I'm not trying to be difficult here or start
another primer religious war - just trying to make right decisions based on
facts and best practices.
I then asked what they would recommend for such an application and they
recommended the "DuPont 2510S/2540S/2570S/2580CR Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer" line
of products which are available in a few colors (white, gray, dark gray, and
olive green).
Thanks,
/\/elson
RV-7A (soon, very soon)
Austin, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time,
I
> flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
> about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
> Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
> otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
>
> > SNIP
> A loaner EIS from Grand Rapids and a mixture idle screw should both be her
> this morning. After some tweaking of the voltage regulator and mixture
> adjustments, I hope to fly again this afternoon. Can't wait for another
> awesome ride.
>
> Steve Glasgow
> Charlotte, NC
>
Congratulations Steve!
Nothing like a little excitment to make an already memoriable day even
more so. Always a few bugs to work out, which you'll have done in short
order.
Best Regards
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon EMI update |
In the -4 the panel is pretty close to your face so the digits are big
enough to read easily. This instrument would be the PERFECT choice for a
VFR cruise like Stien has done. For IFR you still need an Altimeter, and
probably an Airspeed Indicator might be would be good too, is all that is
needed. I keep all the info up on the Dynon even though I think I am using
the steam gauge altimeter as a primary source of altitude info.
One thing about the Dynon, the display is so accurate that your pitch and
roll are so stable the altitude and heading don't move around at all.
This is great technology, these are great times!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV8ter(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon EMI update
>
> Question. Are you also only really *using* the attitude indicator and not
> really using the rest of the info as Mike seemed to be implying he was?
Mike
> said he still used the other steam gauges for everything else, whatever
that
> means.
>
> When I see the unit, it looks like it would be hard to use the tape &
digital
> readouts due to their size and the display realestate being relatively
small.
> The impression I have is it looks like a neat option for IFR equipped
planes
> that don't want to fool with a vacuum attitude indicator and want backups
for
> the other steam gauges but not really right to be the primary display for
VFR
> guys who want to do away with round gauges all together.
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> In a message dated 10/30/2003 8:10:40 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> dougr(at)petroblend.com writes:
>
> I have the Dynon and external mag sensor. About 50 hours on the unit and
> probably 30 on the mag sensor. I have a KX-155 Nav/Com. I can hear a
small
> difference in the noise when the Dynon is on vs off, but it is not a
problem
> at all my mag cable and power cable are shielded.
>
> My horizon works good, but not as good as Mike reports, mine will "quiver"
> from time to time, especially in turbulence.
>
> I too am very happy! This is a great instrument and a great value.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
Does anyone know of a manufacturer of small stuff sacks, similar to what
one might put tent stakes in? I'm apparently not putting the correct
words into my searches.
Thanks,
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
Hi Alex,
I like these a lot:
http://www.ripoffs.com/marine.htm
These are bigger:
http://www.arizonatools.com/catalog/browse/3586-2730-3833/?source=googleppc
I keep my headphones in something like this that was intended to be an
insulated lunch sack. It is padded, has a pocket on the front, is the
perfect size for a headset and two of them cost less then $10.00!
http://store.yahoo.com/gearlabs/hisiwiwapa.html
Here is something that might be closer to what you were looking for:
http://www.newtribe.com/bags.html
Good luck!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)aol.com |
I would try camping and RV (the other kind) stores like Dick's, or sporting
goods stores.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
I just spoke to Gus at Van's about it and he agrees that insufficient
clamping is the problem and would not leave any gap that you can
see daylight through on this part. So I am going to try drilling out
(again) and finding some way to put an extra clamp on there.
David suggested vise-grips...I presume vise-grip c-clamps to get over
the spar flange? I don't think my hardware store carries those but I
will try to hunt them down because they look really useful for this
sort of thing.
Failing that, Gus said pop rivets would even be fine and would ensure
the parts stay together...hopefully it won't come to that.
Thanks for the replies,
Paul
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
Alex... 9 pages here...
http://www.rei.com/online/store/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=40000008000&langId=-1&storeId=8000&categoryId=4500447
and I've bought small ones at my local WalMart and Target stores. They are
usually in the camping section.
gil in Tucson
>
>Does anyone know of a manufacturer of small stuff sacks, similar to what
>one might put tent stakes in? I'm apparently not putting the correct
>words into my searches.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | tailwheel chains |
I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
some specific info for him?
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tom Green" <tomg(at)vansaircraft.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
> Dave, no, but in all of the years, I have never seen it... it would be
> interesting to know of an individual and how it happened... Tom
>
> Forwarded by: "Support"
> Forwarded to: tomg
> Send reply to: "David Carter"
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
> To: "Van's Aircraft - Support"
> Subject: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>
> There's been some discussion of tailwheel chains coming loose - with the
> Van's wire links being a persistent culprit. Has anyone taken the time to
> pass this on to you?
>
> David Carter
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:12 AM
> Subject: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>
>
> >
> > Awww geez, somebody was whining about getting back to building topics...
> and I thought this list was just for BS'ing.
> >
> > Anyway, regarding the chain length on your tailwheel, loose is better
than
> tight. Don't fret too much here, just take out one chain length from
being
> tight and call it good.
> >
> > If your chains hit the bottom of your rudder, you can add the eyebolts
to
> the rudder horns and tailwheel bellcrank if you like. And make sure to
put
> your springs on the tailwheel end, even though they look nicer on the top
> end. And if the chains still scratch the paint off of your rudder, cover
> the chains with shrink tubing. You can get shrink tubing at your
electrical
> supply store and it comes in many colors including clear.
> >
> > IMHO, throw those funny teardrop shaped wire links that Van supplied in
> the trash. I've seen too many of them come undone.
> >
> > Have fun... at least you know that you put the little wheel on the
correct
> end.
> >
> > Vince
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
Jim Oke wrote:
> Sam,
>
> Could you please try and quantify which was the larger effect. IOW,
did the
> extra bark from the exhaust stacks drown out the extra wind "hiss"
from the
> tail or vice versa. Inquiring minds would like to know.
>
> Jim Oke
> RV-6A
> Wpg, MB
>
> (Thinking of taking a Dremel to my Vettermans any day now...)
Jim, no doubt the biggest gain is from the extra bark since a lot more
hot air is being expelled........! ;-)
I guess I am going to have to 'fess up. I thought it was very obvious
that this was just a bunch of bull but I am surprised at how many people
took this stuff seriously. I am getting requests for photos and hard
data about the "exhaust speed mods"!!
By the way, I would not suggest trimming the exhaust stacks; in my case
all it did was make the belly of the plane dirtier and created a bit
more noise in the cabin. And.....even though the plane looks a little
better without the stacks hanging down, there is no difference in top
speed that I can detect.
Guess I better not mention the special wax I use on the canopy to reduce
airflow friction......
Sam Buchanan
==========
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 9:19 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: paint and engine exhaust
>
>
>
>>
>> Ed Holyoke wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Sam,
>>>
>>> How much faster did it get when you trimmed the exhaust?
>>>
>>> Ed Holyoke
>>
>>
>> Not sure of the numbers Ed, but its gotta be a lot faster. I mean, those
>> turned down pipes were hangin' right out in the wind, and as fast as a
>> RV flies, we all know how just a little streamlining goes a long way. It
>> just looks a LOT faster when you sight down the fuse and can't see those
>> pipes because they are tucked up in the canopy air exit. Also, the way
>> the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
>> producing several more horsepower.
>>
>> It sorta reminds me of the speed I picked up when I got rid of those
>> draggy ol' tailwheel springs and chains and installed one of Terry
>> Jantzi's slick tailwheel linkages. I could almost hear the wind hissing
>> by the tail once those clanky spring and chains were gone.
>>
>> The guys at the hangar are convinced that my plane is one of the fastest
>> RV-6's around because of the speed mods, and they know I would never
>> tell them anything that isn't true.
>>
>> Sam Buchanan
>>
>> ==================
>>
>>>
>>>> When I first started flying my RV-6 with the Vetterman exhaust, there
>>>
>>>
>>> was very little exhaust residue on the belly of the plane. But, I
>>> couldn't leave well enough alone so I *had* to trim the ends of the
>>> stacks so they wouldn't protrude into the slipstream and slow me down
>>> with all that drag.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> So, my plane is now a whole lot faster but the price is the blue/gray
>>>
>>>
>>> exhaust residue on the black belly of my plane. The PPG Concept paint
>>> hasn't been damaged, but Simple Green or some water-based degreaser
>>> concentrate I bought at a Harbor Freight store is the only thing I have
>>> found that will cut the residue with a reasonable amount of effort. The
>>> degreaser (full strength) on a blue paper towel works better than the
>>> Simple Green and it is supposedly non-corrosive, but the bottom of the
>>> plane will probably fall off one of these days because I have used
>>> Simple Green a few times.......and also because I didn't prime every
>>> piece.......oh, and I also failed to use a deburring tool on every
rivet
>>>
>>> hole......Good Grief, this plane may be too dangerous to fly
>>> anymore.....
>>>
>>> Sam Buchanan (RV-6, leaving a trail of falling airplane parts across
>>> north Alabama)
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
> ........So I called up DuPont and spoke to their tech support
> (1-800-338-7668) and they were very firm that VariPrime should NOT be left
> alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and
2)
> it's very porous when left alone. So are VariPrime users putting
something on
> top that I'm not aware of?......
> ........I then asked what they would recommend for such an application and
they
> recommended the "DuPont 2510S/2540S/2570S/2580CR Epoxy DTM Primer-Sealer"
line
> of products which are available in a few colors (white, gray, dark gray,
and olive green).
I have completed all of the internal painting, including final paint in the
cabin. I use the Dupont two-part epoxy system - cleaner, metal conditioner,
thinner, primer and final paint (Imron). The only downside is setup time
for epoxy and cost (still good for value). All products work very well
together and have never caused a single problem. When you have predicable
results your quality, speed and reduced product usage (weight) will have
significant benefits.
Although I use Dupont, I think that other major products have comparable
benefits. Pick a good system and don't try to save steps - or cost. It's a
false economy. Check the Archives.
Ernest Kells - RV-9A O235-N2C, Wood Prop
90 plus % Complete - Electrical
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
In a message dated 10/31/03 7:19:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
david.nelson(at)pobox.com writes:
> that VariPrime should NOT be left
> alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and 2)
> it's very porous when left alone.
David,
This is true for most primers. That is why they are called "primers" . By
design/formulation they are intended for substrate prep. and bonding of the final
finish. Not as a protective coating by itself.
Dale Ensing
Many years in the industrial coatings industry.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
After a brief infatuation with the 7A, I ended up building a 9A and now
have the preview plans for both airplanes. I don't really need the 7A
plans now, so if someone out there could use them you can have them.
You pay to ship it (they're not light), or pick it up from me in Mountain View,
CA.
As much as I would like to promote RVs and offer this only to prospective
builders, note that Van's will supposedly require you to buy a copy (any
airplane) of the preview plans by the time you buy the emp kit. So if you
haven't yet
taken the plunge, but think you probably will, I'm not sure this will help you
much. You might call and ask them though.
Reply off-list please.
Paul
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D. Jones" <dljinia(at)yahoo.com> |
List:
I'm attempting to get my -7A inspected this year.
It's going to come right down to the wire as to
whether I'm going to be ready or not. So I'm thinking
that a DAR might be more flexible than the FSDO.
Any recommendations for DAR in Iowa. I'm located in
Muscatine,IA. Feel free to respond offline to dljinia
at yahoo.com
Thanks,
Doug -7a Finish
http://www.oncloud7.com/rv7.htm
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Phillips <ripsteel(at)edge.net> |
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you shortened the
pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed increase?
But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the pipes, but not at
the expense of more noize..
Mark
Sam Buchanan wrote:
the way the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
> producing several more horsepower.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jake L. Wegman" <jake(at)ultrex.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Email list vs. Web forum |
For those of you who have never used a web based forum needs to informed of
several key benefits:
1st - [structured topics] - Painting/Priming topics can be kept separate
from engine/accessory topics. This is very beneficial when you want to
focus on a particular task.
2nd - [searchable content] - Items of interest are much easier found when
like topics are contained. Searching a mailing list of news group is very
limited and time consuming.
3rd - [Low "noise to signal" ratio] - Again, focus on topics that are
important to you. When it's time to focus on another topic, that
information is stored in an easy to find manner in their respective forum
"group".
4th - [Convenience of getting the information anytime, anywhere] (where
there is an Internet connected computer.) - Want a chance to look up a topic
while at the office then pick that reading up again when you go home?
5th - [Personal Messages] - Termed "PM's" - these are mini-emails sent from
one user of the forum to another without tying up your e-mail mailbox.
Don't you get enough e-mail as it is?
6th - [Protect your e-mail address] - as Dave pointed out, web forums do NOT
reveal your e-mail address. You NEVER have to give your e-mail address in a
message. Internet spiders cannot gain that information because it wasn't
used in the message in the first place!
Web based forums are a central way of holding discussions. If you think
about it, mailing lists for our purpose are antiquated. Why should a single
topic result in a few thousand e-mails? That's just ridiculous...
As an exercise, I've setup a web based forum for the education of this
group. If you are so inclined, please visit:
http://forums.happyhangar.com
I've created an "RVs" category with the following subjects:
"Painting/Priming"
"Engine/Accessories"
"Avionics"
"Airframe"
"Finishing"
These forums have been configured so that an anonymous guest does NOT need
to register to read the forums (that can be changed). In order to post a
message, you will need to register for an account. The registration process
asks for a username, e-mail address, and password. You also have the
ability to fill out the rest of the account profile to give others more
information about yourself. (When you post a message, readers can easily
bring up your profile from that message)
Feel free to register for an account and give it a try. If this is
something that you guys want to use, by all means use it - the server that
it's hosted on is around for the long haul as it also serves as a picture
gallery for a local R/C club...
Again, if you can squeeze the trigger on a rivet gun, you can use a web
based forum.
regards,
Jake Wegman - RV-8 emp
chrisw3(at)cox.net wrote:
>I really don't get the web based discussion forums. My only guess
as to why they
>exist at all is because those who start them don't have the server
resources
>to do a mailing list or news group. IMO mailing lists and news
groups are much
>easier to use than the web based discussion forums.
rvl(at)davepar.com wrote:
>> As long as were discussing IM (ok, the discussion got way off
IM), I was wondering
>>why such an active discussion is happening over an email list. How
about
>>a web-based discussion forum?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: paint and engine exhaust |
Mark Phillips wrote:
>
> Hi Sam- Could you really tell if it got louder after you shortened the
> pipes? Or was it just the wind noise that went up with the speed increase?
>
> But seriously now- I was thinking about shortening the pipes, but not at
> the expense of more noize..
>
> Mark
Mark, I noticed the additional "bark" the first few flights, mostly
during climbs, but I don't notice it anymore ('cause of the deafness??).
I trimmed off most of the downturn, but I wouldn't take off that much
because of the resulting exhaust deposits on the belly of the plane. You
probably can take off enough to keep the pipes from protruding beneath
the cowl and still have a little downturn.
Sam Buchanan (huh....whadja say...????)
==============
>
> Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> the way the plane barks through the abbreviated stacks means it has to be
>
>>producing several more horsepower.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Steve,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:27:45 -0500
>
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>On October 30, 2003 after almost 3 years and 1900 hours of building time, I
>flew my RV-8 QB for the first time. Now I know what the RV grin is all
>about. My crew and I launched around 12 noon into a beautiful clear
>Carolina Blue Sky from the Stanly County Airport in Albemarle NC. N123SG
>otherwise known as Cappys Toy, flew like a dream.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
Hi Dale,
Exactly. Of the limited frames/interiors I've seen there doesn't appear to be
any top coat applied. Am I mistaken and not seeing what I think I'm seeing?
/\/elson
On Fri, 31 Oct 2003 DWENSING(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 10/31/03 7:19:21 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> david.nelson(at)pobox.com writes:
>
>
> > that VariPrime should NOT be left
> > alone for two reasons - 1) It's acrylic based so it absorbs moisture and 2)
> > it's very porous when left alone.
>
> David,
> This is true for most primers. That is why they are called "primers" . By
> design/formulation they are intended for substrate prep. and bonding of the final
> finish. Not as a protective coating by itself.
> Dale Ensing
> Many years in the industrial coatings industry.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling canopy frame first |
Gang, I've looked in the archives and came up with a couple posts where
people drilled the slider canopy frame first then back drill the canopy. Is
there anyone willing to comment on this practice. It would seem to me that
you would be able to assure nice center punched holes in the frame with this
method. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill here??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight (no, not the Wrights...) |
Scott,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow(at)fedex.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight (no, not the Wrights...)
>Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2003 15:37:16 -0600
>
>
>Well, the FAA came out Tuesday Oct 28 and told me that I had an airplane
>instead
>of a kit. Yesterday we proved them correct...
>
>After a 7 year gestation and 10 month labor and delivery, RV-8A
>"N-8-8-9-Bravo-Sierra" (S/N 80077) took to the skies on a crystal clear
>Fall
>afternoon in Memphis, TN. But more about that after the important stuff
>(the
>thank-yous and acknowledgments!)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
These are now taken.
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim M." <nebrrv8(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: New Parts for Sale |
SMTPD_IN_RCVD
Hi All,
Decided to go with a Dynon in the panel of my RV-8 so I have some NEW
parts I don't need.
Aero Heated Pitot Tube - NEW in Box
PH502-12CR (AN5812-12)
Paid $430.00 Let go for $345.00
ACK A-30 Encoder - NEW in Box
Paid $177.00 Let go for $141.00
UMA-3-200-10 1" Gyro Suction Gauge - NEW in Box
Paid $70.00 Let go for $56
All parts are new in box.
Above prices plus shipping.
Respond off-list to nebrrv8(at)earthlink.net
Thanks,
Jim Muegge
Wiring Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Flamemaster tank sealant |
> I used it recently and it took well over a week to reach the
> consistency that I hoped for. Part of the problem was
> unusually cool temperatures in the shop
The time for most chemical reactions to happen doubles for each 10C
temperature drop. So, proseal used in a shop at about 50F would take
about twice as long as at 68F.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 396 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
I've got a set of RV-7 preview plans if someone wants them.
Free for the asking,
Bryon Crook
RV-9A Emp.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Too Late Sam...... |
>By the way, I would not suggest trimming the exhaust stacks; in my case
>all it did was make the belly of the plane dirtier and created a bit
>more noise in the cabin.....
I did that. I have the curved-down Vetterman exhaust on Suzie Q (-4) and
thought it would look better and maybe go faster if I trimmed the ends a
bit. Bad idea. It made a whole lot more of a mess on the belly: exhaust
stains, interestingly enough, mostly on the center to right side of the
belly. It also made more of a difference (increase) in the cockpit noise
and vibration felt through the floor. I called Larry and he brought me
over a new set of end curves for NOTHING. What a guy. He may not do this
now, however, if 158 people from the list write him asking for exhaust
extensions that they sawed off. Or, he may ask Sam to pay for them as he
started this mess in the first place.
Course, then you have to take the exhaust off and saw off the old
extensions, and have the new ones welded on again. AOG in the meantime.
I think the exhaust looks kind of cool sticking out from the cowl, those
four stacks. P-51 has 12 stacks sticking out and it doesn't seem to slow
it down much. It has a little more horsepower, perhaps, helping things
along, but still.....
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Drilling canopy frame first |
I would recommend against it, I think. When ou drill the slider canopy to
the frame, you want to do that at the exact spot where the canopy contacts
the frame. You can see a slight distortion in the plexi when press the
canopy agains the steel - thats where the hole goes. It would be very
difficult to locate all the holes in the right places beforehand. It works
pretty good to do the standard thing and drill them as you go. Just take
your time and switch drill bits a lot.
Good luck,
Jordan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dana Overall
Subject: RV-List: Drilling canopy frame first
Gang, I've looked in the archives and came up with a couple posts where
people drilled the slider canopy frame first then back drill the canopy. Is
there anyone willing to comment on this practice. It would seem to me that
you would be able to assure nice center punched holes in the frame with this
method. Am I making a mountain out of a mole hill here??
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Too Late Sam...... |
Subject: Re: RV-List: Too Late Sam......
Sam, et al: I have enjoyed the levity on this thread. I can also say
that I cut the downturns off the crossover exhaust on my unpainted RV-4
and soon found that the combustion byproducts and the aluminum were not
a good combination. Paint surely would be less vulnerable but over the
long term might suffer as well. Without the downturns the flow tends to
remain attached to the fuselage and as someone has said, curves off on
the right side of the tailcone. An amusing sidebar: Dan Gilbert tried
the same thing on his formula one racer "Shadow" and since he was
sitting directly on the floor, he soon had a real hot seat. Aside from
generously fried buns he was concerned about structural damage to the
compost, er, composite fuselage. He changed it back.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
As soon as I get the thing built I will.
Pedro
Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
I too need a good picture of the RV-4 canopy cylinder installation.
If you would post the photos to the Matronics Photo List it might help a bunch
of us,
Thanks,
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Steve:
Congrats on your first flight. Come to INT (Winston Salem) sometime ...
let's fly !!!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
160 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
Fellow RV'ers:
As you are probably aware, Meigs Field in Chicago was closed this year due mayor
Richard Daley authorizing the bulldozing of the runway. His intent being to
turn the property into another lakeside park.
At present, the city of Chicago does not have a design or general plan for the
such a proposed park.
The Friends of Meigs, an organization that has been working hard to preserve Meigs,
has come up with a plan to reopen Meigs as a skypark and Chicago Air Museum.
The first step toward this goal is to request of the Chicago City Council an opportunity
to present the Friends of Meigs proposal at an open hearing.
Please take a moment to visit the Friends of Meigs website at:
www.friendsofmeigs.org
There you will see the design of the proposal for the property, and the methods
that are available to fund such a project without involving City of Chicago tax
dollars.
You can also make your views heard by signing an online petition to get the process
of reopening Meigs started.
I must note that I am not affiliated with the Friends of Meigs. I am just a general
aviation pilot who would love to take my wife to dinner in downtown Chicago
by flying her there in my RV someday.
I am sure that there are many of you out there that feel the same way.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
canopy
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry" <jdoyal(at)sport.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
I would like to have the preview plans if they haven't been spoken for.
Jerry Doyal
1-800-221-3418
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of BGCrook(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans
I've got a set of RV-7 preview plans if someone wants them.
Free for the asking,
Bryon Crook
RV-9A Emp.
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Kevin,
What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
but do not have to BE TSO'd.
Mike
>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
>
>
>Great stuff Mike.
>
>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
> >
> >Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
> >Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>here
> >it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
> >delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
> >
> >Mike Robertson
> >
> >
> >HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
> >By Mike Robertson
> >
> >Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
> >and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
> >some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
> >unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>means
> >Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
> >requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
> >there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>equipment
> >must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
> >somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>this
> >article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>issued
> >an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
> >operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>amended.
> >
> >Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
> >operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
> >Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
> >airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>7
> >of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>aircraft
> >and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
> >Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
> >
> >This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>and
> >instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>equipment
> >requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>the
> >airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
> >operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>to
> >issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
> >safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
> >limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>The
> >ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>interest
> >of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
> >limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
>are
> >understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>can
> >require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
> >prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
> >
> >1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
> >2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>appropriately
> >equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>this
> >aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
> >3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
> >under 91.205 must
> >be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>91.
> >Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
> >aircraft maintenance records.
> >
> >To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
> >What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>is
> >prudent or safe?
> >
> >So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
> >effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
> >equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
> >states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
> >that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
> >transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>that
> >the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
> >environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class
>of
> >TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
> >the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
> >that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>must
> >meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>and
> >calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
> >notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
> >equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
> >not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>could
> >build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
> >requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
> >
> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>91.205(a)
> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>conjunction
> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>the
> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>on
> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>up
> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>requirements
> >prior to operating the aircraft.
> >
> >Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>per
> >the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
> >appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>with
> >91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
> >Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
> >flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>In
> >paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
> >day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
> >talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>that
> >they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>requirements
> >of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
>from
> >the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
> >FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about
>a
> >TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
>that
> >for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>the
> >IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
> >also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
> >system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to
>be
> >used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
> >sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>displaying
> >hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>capacity,
> >a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>gyroscopic
> >direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
> >91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
> >VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
> >Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
> >pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>aircraft.
> >
> >So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
> >items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>remember
> >that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>where
> >our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
> >amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>your
> >family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
> >during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
> >and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
> >Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
> >category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>FAA
> >through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
> >manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
> >equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>standards.
> >
> >In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
> >want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>concern
> >when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
> >certificate.
> >
> >Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
> >patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
> >
>
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
What Bill said in his email is very correct. If your DAR gives you problems
then have him look at Part 23 of the regs for lights illumination
requirements. If they meet the requirements of that then he, the DAR, can
"approve" them.
Mike Robertson
>From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:54:33 -0500 (EST)
>
>
>First I'll simply say "wow", and thank you for this effort. This is
>great information! I do have a question (and this has nothing to do
>with ancient computers). :)
>
>In the section I quote below you say :
>
>On Wed Oct 29 12:01:27 2003, Mike Robertson wrote :
> >[ ... snip ... ]
> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>91.205(a)
> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>conjunction
> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>the
> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>on
> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>up
> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>requirements
> >prior to operating the aircraft.
> >[ ... snip ... ]
>
>Where I'm trying to puzzle out the details is with respect to things like
>the new integrated LED position lights which Bill VonDane and Bill Dube are
>making available. While I am unsure as of yet whether I'm going to build
>my RV for IFR or not, I don't want to make choices which categorically rule
>IFR operation out. I _do_ know I like the perceived higher reliability
>that the LED solution seems to bring to the table.
>
>I'm trying to parse the section quoted above and what I get from this is
>that
>if the DAR gives you your certificate and does *not*, for whatever reason,
>include any limitations regarding your choice of lights ... you are good to
>go. The assumption is that unless explicitly noted they are, by definition,
>approved.
>
>If my interpretation is right, this begs the question of how do we know
>that
>a DAR will NOT include limitations regarding your position lights unless
>you
>purchase and install units which have _clearly_ approved previously by the
>FAA? If I install the spiffy LED position lights, will I have a chance of
>being limited from IFR ops in my RV? Any clue? Or is it a case of you pay
>your money and take your chances?
>
> -- Dwight
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
For anyone interested the crude 3D models I made of the RV8 can now be
downloaded from:
http://www.geocities.com/brett_morawski/rv.html?1067665891627
This is a free site so I don't know how long it will be available.
Brett Morawski
RV 8 emp, waiting on wings.
Toledo, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | All New Matronics Email List Online Chat!!! |
Hi Listers!
A number of Listers have been asking for some Matronics Email List online
chat and NOW ITS HERE! Over the last couple of days I've set up a nifty
web-based Chat site here on the Matronics systems. No special programs to
download; all you need is a late model web browser like Internet Explorer
or Netscape with a java plugin. I would recommend downloading the latest
Java plugin if you experience any problems getting the page to come
up. Here's a link to the Sun Java download
website. http://java.com/en/index.jsp Look for the green box with the
yellow arrow in the upper right corner. Before you bother, though, just
try you browser because it'll probably just work.
Each Email List on Matronics has its own "Room" and all rooms can easily be
accessed from the same client. In the Email List URL Trailer at the bottom
of each List message, you'll find the Link to this List's specific Chat
Room. Just click on the Link, and then type in your name or email address
in the User Name box. Try to use a name or email address that the other
Listers know you by. You'll find me lurking around the various List chat
rooms as "MattDralle".
There's a couple of nifty features I'll explain right off. On the main
Chat Window page after you login, you'll see a little icon with a Hammer
and a Screwdriver. This is the Control Panel window. Once the Control
Panel comes up, click on the "Settings" tab. Here you'll find, among other
things, three check boxes to enable sound. Click all three and you'll be
treated to a sound whenever someone enters or leaves the Room, or when
someone sends a message.
The other cool button is the one that has four little arrows pointing to
each of the four corners of the button. This will rip the main Chat window
from the web page and allow you to resize and move it anyway you'd like.
Let's have some fun and get to know one another better using this awesome
new Chat Room! To get started, just click the URL Link below for this
List's specific Chat Room!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Admin
PS - I'm working on a web link interface to the chat logfiles. Coming soon...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
But practically speaking, this means the IFR GPS must be TSO'd.
If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the
manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type
certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a
hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO
requirements.
Kevin Horton
>
>Kevin,
>
>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
>
>Mike
>
>
>>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
>>
>>
>>Great stuff Mike.
>>
>>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
>>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
>>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
>>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
>>
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
>> >Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>>here
>> >it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
>> >delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
>> >
>> >Mike Robertson
>> >
>> >
>> >HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
>> >By Mike Robertson
>> >
>> >Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
>> >and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
>> >some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
>> >unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>>means
>> >Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
>> >requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
>> >there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>>equipment
>> >must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
>> >somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>>this
>> >article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>>issued
>> >an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
>> >operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>>amended.
>> >
>> >Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
>> >operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
>> >Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
>> >airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>>7
>> >of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>>aircraft
>> >and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
>> >Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
>> >
>> >This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>>and
>> >instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>>equipment
>> >requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>>the
>> >airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
>> >operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>>to
>> >issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
>> >safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
>> >limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>>The
>> >ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>>interest
>> >of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
>> >limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
> >are
>> >understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>>can
>> >require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
>> >prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
>> >
>> >1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
> > >2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>>appropriately
>> >equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>>this
>> >aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
>> >3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
>> >under 91.205 must
>> >be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>>91.
>> >Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
>> >aircraft maintenance records.
>> >
>> >To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
>> >What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>>is
>> >prudent or safe?
>> >
>> >So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
>> >effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
>> >equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
>> >states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
>> >that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
>> >transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>>that
>> >the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
>> >environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class
>>of
>> >TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
>> >the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
>> >that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>>must
>> >meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>>and
>> >calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
>> >notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
>> >equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
>> >not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>>could
>> >build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
>> >requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
>> >
>> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>>91.205(a)
>> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
>> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
>> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
>> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>>conjunction
>> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>>the
>> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>>on
>> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
>> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
>> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
>> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>>up
>> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>>requirements
>> >prior to operating the aircraft.
>> >
>> >Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>>per
>> >the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
>> >appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>>with
>> >91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
>> >Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
>> >flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>>In
>> >paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
>> >day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
>> >talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>>that
>> >they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>>requirements
>> >of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
> >from
>> >the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
>> >FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about
>>a
>> >TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
> >that
>> >for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>>the
>> >IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
>> >also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
>> >system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to
>>be
>> >used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
>> >sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>>displaying
>> >hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>>capacity,
>> >a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>>gyroscopic
>> >direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
>> >91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
>> >VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
>> >Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
>> >pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>>aircraft.
>> >
>> >So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
>> >items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>>remember
>> >that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>>where
>> >our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
>> >amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>>your
>> >family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
>> >during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
>> >and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
>> >Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
>> >category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>>FAA
>> >through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
>> >manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
>> >equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>>standards.
>> >
>> >In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
>> >want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>>concern
>> >when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
>> >certificate.
>> >
>> >Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
>> >patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
> > >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: free to good home: RV-7A preview plans |
Plans are now spoken for.
Thanks,
Bryon
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? |
So which Transtar primer are people using for corrosion protection? There are
several epoxy primers listed on their website.
Thanks,
Bryon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime? - QB kits |
I assume from this thread that the acid wash primer that Van's uses on
the quick build kits has the same properties/problems as variprime. I
built the Emp. for my plane and then switched to the QB. I painted
everything I could reach with the Deft epoxy primer, but since the wings
were largely closed up to start with I did nothing on the wing interior.
Is it worth trying (or even possible) to prime inside the wings after
they're completed?
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | michael michael <top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
I use Sherwin williams self-etching Primer....Knowing full well that Sherwin Williams
told me it offers no rust protection. Now you may ask...why would you use
something that you have been told offers no protection....
#1....My understanding of rust protection is that corrosion is an electrical process..anything
that can insulate 2 metals from each other...(think of insulation
on wires) offers protection..The primer does absord moisture....but i have
observed this product (dunked in water). It is resistant to a point...In my belief
it offers a level of protection. Also sherwin WIlliams & others like to
sell big $$$$$.....So i`m making an educated choice/guess.
#2 I dont have the facilities to large scale spray. I have considered ...mixing
& rolling the epoxy primer on just the joints. after much thought on the matter
I decided to go the etch-primer route in spray cans.
#3 After watching on CNN the 6 cigerette presidents swear under oath in front of
Congress that smoking does not cause cancer. I dont trust
anything big bizz says.;)...So I spray with a usless paint that IS marked as cancer
causing.
I believe that that the etch primers offer a level of protection (how much is only
a guess) ....I dont believe they premote corrosion.
For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize or Epoxy
paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
Hi,
While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration routine,
I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where the screen always
displays "LOADING". I think this was caused because I hit the "END"
button instead of the "AIRLFT" button (in the air) prior to executing
the left hand turn manurver.
I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2 hour, and it
didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power seems to not get it out of
this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can re-start the
calibration process? Is there a processor "RESET" button?????
I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 75 hrs
Phone Weekdays: (860)-727-2393
Weekends: (860)-623-1094
Email Weekdays: fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com
Weekends: wstucklen1(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Something similar happened to mine when I was updating the software and
my laptop battery died in the middle of the process (I know - my
fault!). I had to send it in to Dynon to be flashed. They turned it
around quickly and didn't charge me. But -- I wasn't thrilled that it
happened in the first place. I'm no EE, but I would think it would be
relatively simple to guard against this sort of problem....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Fred Stucklen [mailto:wstucklen1(at)cox.net]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 11:33 AM
> To: info(at)dynondevelopment.com
> Subject: RV-List: EFIS-D10 Help!
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration
> routine, I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where
> the screen always displays "LOADING". I think this was
> caused because I hit the "END" button instead of the "AIRLFT"
> button (in the air) prior to executing the left hand turn manurver.
> I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2
> hour, and it didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power
> seems to not get it out of this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
> How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can
> re-start the calibration process? Is there a processor
> "RESET" button?????
> I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-6A N926RV 75 hrs
> Phone Weekdays: (860)-727-2393
> Weekends: (860)-623-1094
>
> Email Weekdays: fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com
> Weekends: wstucklen1(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Smith <dave(at)rv10project.net> |
| Subject: | Alodine & Anodine |
Okay, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between these two
products/processes? I'd like to do some corrosion protection, but am
new to the 'primer' discussion.
Thanks!
--
Dave
http://www.rv10project.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kenneth Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
I'm no EE, but I would think it would be
> relatively simple to guard against this sort of problem....
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
Most small computers are vulnerable while updating the EEPROM. This is
because the instructions for loading is in the EEPROM that is being
updated and has been copied to RAM for execution. Yes, this can be
guarded against at additional cost and components. This can also happen
to your computer when flashing a new BIOS. See http://www.badflash.com/
which explains that "flashing your computer's bios can sometimes go
wrong leaving your computer a useless paperweight."
Ken
RV-6A N94KB
RV-4 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
Fred Stucklen wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration routine,
> I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where the screen always
> displays "LOADING". I think this was caused because I hit the "END"
> button instead of the "AIRLFT" button (in the air) prior to executing
> the left hand turn manurver.
> I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2 hour, and it
> didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power seems to not get it out of
> this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
> How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can re-start the
> calibration process? Is there a processor "RESET" button?????
> I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to reboot
the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power feed in
order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I bet the
unit will come back to life once you do that.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
If I'm not mistaken, the internal battery also serves as a "keep alive"
if you have that option, so disconnecting the external keep alive will
not make a difference. Removing the internal battery might do the trick.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing
Milwaukee, WI
>Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to reboot
>the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power feed in
>order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I bet the
>unit will come back to life once you do that.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | 2003 List Fund Raiser - Please Support Your Lists... |
Dear Listers,
During November of each year, I have a voluntary Email List Fund Raiser to
support the continued operation, development, maintenance and upgrade of
the Email Forums sponsored here. Your Contributions go directly into
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The traffic on the Lists continues to grow and the numbers are nothing
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* 11/01/2002 - 10/31/2003
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List-related upgrades this year have been plentiful, and List performance
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* Internet Connection upgrade to a full, commercial-grade T1 Line!
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As you can well imagine, this year's upgrades translate into a fair amount
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servers" on the Web these days, I have a strict
*no-commercial-advertisement policy* on the Matronics Lists and associated
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My goal with the Matronics List Service is to provide all members
The best news this year is that, with the gracious help of Andy Gold and
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
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http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Yes, I understand that much.
My thought was something along the line of having an extra backup EEPROM
that is never updated. It always has the software on it as shipped from
the factory. Should the primary, updatable one fail, the backup is
always there -- A second boot device that can't be over written.
Restore from it when needed, then start upgrading to the current
software version. What does an EEPROM chip cost, a dollar?
Anyway, I bet Dynon is already looking at the issue...
Cheers,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kenneth Beene [mailto:kbeene(at)citilink.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 01, 2003 3:44 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: EFIS-D10 Help!
>
>
>
>
> I'm no EE, but I would think it would be
> > relatively simple to guard against this sort of problem....
> >
> > -
> > Larry Bowen
>
>
> Most small computers are vulnerable while updating the
> EEPROM. This is because the instructions for loading is in
> the EEPROM that is being updated and has been copied to RAM
> for execution. Yes, this can be guarded against at
> additional cost and components. This can also happen to your
> computer when flashing a new BIOS. See
> http://www.badflash.com/ which explains that "flashing your
> computer's bios can sometimes go wrong leaving your computer
> a useless paperweight."
>
> Ken
> RV-6A N94KB
> RV-4 under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com> |
| Subject: | Alodine & Anodine |
If you meant anodize:
Anodize. Aluminum anodizing is the electrochemical process by which aluminum
is converted into aluminum oxide on the surface of a part. This coating is
desirable in specific applications due to the following properties:
Increased corrosion resistance
Increased durability / wear resistance
Ability to be colored through dying
Excellent base or primer for secondary coatings
The process of anodizing is rather simple but it requires extensive
equipment to do it right. It consists of an anodizing solution that is an
acid electrolyte. A cathode is connected to the negative terminal of a
voltage source and placed in the solution. An aluminum component is
connected to the positive terminal of the voltage source and also placed in
the solution. When the circuit is turned on the oxygen in the anodizing
solution will be liberated from the water molecules and combine with the
aluminum on the part forming an aluminum oxide coating. Anodizing will
protect the aluminum parts by making the surface much harder than natural
aluminum. RV builders that get their spars pre-built will receive them
anodized and theyll have the nice gold color.
Alodine. This is a product that most of us use as part of the priming
process. It is a chromic acid conversion coating that is applied to aluminum
to provide corrosion protection and surface preparation for paint. It is
called a conversion coating because it does a chemical conversion of the
surface (oxidizes it) and is the best way to prep it for painting. All by
itself, aluminum naturally combines with oxygen to form a protective surface
film that inhibits further oxidation of the aluminum. Unlike steel or iron
alloys, aluminum will not continue to oxidize (rust) once this protective
layer is formed. But this natural oxide is extremely thin and loosely
adhered to the aluminum surface, and is easily removed by handling. In
contrast, Alodine forms a very durable, protective oxide. Application
usually gives a gold tint to the aluminum surface, although some Alodine
products are clear and invisible. [Note: Alodine is a trademark name of
Henkel Corporation but it has come to be used generically. DuPont calls
theirs 226S conversion coating. Poly-Fiber is Aluma-Dyne E-2300 Chromic Acid
Conversion Coating.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Smith
Subject: RV-List: Alodine & Anodine
Okay, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between these two
products/processes? I'd like to do some corrosion protection, but am
new to the 'primer' discussion.
Thanks!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
Jeff Point wrote:
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the internal battery also serves as a "keep alive"
> if you have that option, so disconnecting the external keep alive will
> not make a difference. Removing the internal battery might do the trick.
>
Good point. Disconnect keep alive feed *and* the internal battery. :-)
Sam Buchanan (didn't have the internal battery in mine when I had to do
a hard reboot)
>>Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to reboot
>>the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power feed in
>>order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I bet the
>>unit will come back to life once you do that.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
I just finished a truly exceptional ride in Rod Linde's new RV8. Later on, I noticed
the heat of the sun glare from the unpainted aluminum wing was considerable.
Made me think of selling time as a winter tanning parlor. Has anyone explored
using a flat paint or other way to reduce the reflected heat energy?
Does paint of any kind reduce the effect in your experience? The heat was definitely
coming from the side & the flight took place at noon so an overhead sunshade
wouldn't affect it.
Rod has put 2 2" diameter holes in the aft wall of his rear baggage compartment
with a screen cover to protect against FOD to the control system. I couldn't
feel any draft around the canopy & the skirt seemed firmly in contact with the
fuselage sides when I poked it. However, the day was a sunny 75 degrees. Maybe
I'll get another ride to check it out this winter.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> But practically speaking, this means the IFR GPS must be TSO'd.
>
> If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the
> manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type
> certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a
> hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO
> requirements.
>
> Kevin Horton
>
>
>>
>>Kevin,
>>
>>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
>>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
>>
>>Mike
>>
We're talking about GPS for approaches, not enroute, right? And doesn't
the enroute GPS have to be a "supplement" (FAA Advisory Circular 20-138)
to onboard navigational equipment that is ground based (VOR)? And since
the primary enroute navigation is ground based, the enroute GPS doesn't
have to meet the requirements of a TSO, right?
In other words, as I understand it, a handheld GPS is fine for enroute
IFR ops as long as an operational VOR receiver (handheld???) is in the
plane. The TSO-equivalent GPS is required for approaches.
We are not discussing what is prudent, only what is literally required
by the FARs.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
I had the same problem when working on the calibration program. I ended up
trying to recommunicate with the unit and computer and was able to re-establish
communication and download the information. Try establishing communication
between the computer and EFIS, try what you were doing, or try uploading a
checklist or the v speeds or similar. I can't remember what I did, but I was
finally able to re-establish communication and the unit started working properly.
I hope this helps!
-Mike
In a message dated 11/1/2003 11:37:15 AM Eastern Standard Time,
wstucklen1(at)cox.net writes:
Hi,
While trying tor un the Magnetic Field/heading calibration routine,
I've managed to get the EFIS-D10 into a mode where the screen always
displays "LOADING". I think this was caused because I hit the "END"
button instead of the "AIRLFT" button (in the air) prior to executing
the left hand turn manurver.
I've let the unit run (attached to the PC) for over 1/2 hour, and it
didn't stop "LOAD"ing.. Re-cycling the power seems to not get it out of
this mode, even with the PC disconnected.
How do I get the unit out of this mode so that I can re-start the
calibration process? Is there a processor "RESET" button?????
I do not have the External EDC-D10 unit attached (yet).
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 75 hrs
Phone Weekdays: (860)-727-2393
Weekends: (860)-623-1094
Email Weekdays: fred.stucklen(at)utcfuelcells.com
Weekends: wstucklen1(at)cox.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "I-K Technologies (Ralph Krongold)" <2pilots(at)comcast.net> |
Steve Glasgow wrote:
>> The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a
near
perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and all
engine instruments were gone . . . We determined the EIS problem was
probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make an
auto shutdown. < <
Ken Simmons wrote:
>> You mentioned the EIS failure was probably an alternator over-voltage
that caused
an auto shutdown. If you're needing a loaner it sounds like it damaged the
EIS. Is that correct? < <
Listers -
In response to Ken's comments regarding survival of an engine monitor
over-voltage situation, I wanted to suggest that potential buyers of
avionics in general -- and engine monitors in particular -- verify that
equipment to be used in their aircraft is protected against voltage
transients and other over-voltage phenomena. As an engine monitor
manufacturer focusing on the experimental market, we at I-K Technologies
have designed our instruments to withstand significant over-voltage
transients and other over-voltage
conditions without interruption or failure.
In addition, we've built significant redundancy into our instruments so that
multiple displays and support circuitry provide redundancy and fault
tolerance in the event of a failure of a one component in the system for any
reason. Adding protection against over-voltage is fairly trivial and should
be a consideration before buying instruments -- particularly those that
provide pilots with information regarding the health of their
engine.
Ralph Krongold
CEO & Chief Engineer
I-K Technologies
www.i-ktechnologies.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "austin" <austin(at)uniserve.com> |
Hi Listers,
I would like to add strobes to my finished RV wingtips.
I have seen notes about cheaper alternatives to the big name suppliers, but
their site usually shows bus flashers and amber lights etc.
I do not need position lights, but would like to add white ( clear )
multiple flash pattern lights to the tips...( pos. lights are separate and
already in ).
Any thoughts to offer ?
Input greatly appreciated,
Austin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (more questions) |
This begs questions of much more practical significance that
constructing my own GPS or transponder.
Can I, as the builder, legally demonstrate compliance of the
*installation* of an IFR GPS in my plane?
Can I, as the builder, legally calibrate the static system/altimeter
(manometers are relatively easy to construct) & verify that the mode C
is correctly reporting altitude?
Next, addressing the issue of 'navigational equipment appropriate to
the ground facilities to be used'. Aren't there now (or there soon will
be) GPS approaches to airports that have no other instrument approach?
If that is correct, do you need ADF or VOR to fly an approach there? If
not, then part B follows: If you are flying a GPS approach into an
airport that has both GPS & other approaches, you aren't using 'ground
facilities'. Do you still need ADF and/or VOR to fly that approach?
Thanks Mike,
Charlie
Mike Robertson wrote:
>
>Kevin,
>
>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR use
>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
>>
>>
>>Great stuff Mike.
>>
>>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
>>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
>>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
>>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
>>
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
>>>Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of worse
>>>
>>>
>>here
>>
>>
>>>it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the time to
>>>delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
>>>
>>>Mike Robertson
>>>
>>>
>>>HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
>>>By Mike Robertson
>>>
>>>Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built aircraft
>>>and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There are
>>>some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly IFR
>>>unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
>>>
>>>
>>means
>>
>>
>>>Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
>>>requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR. Then
>>>there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
>>>
>>>
>>equipment
>>
>>
>>>must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
>>>somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain that
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
>>>
>>>
>>issued
>>
>>
>>>an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow the
>>>operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
>>>
>>>
>>amended.
>>
>>
>>>Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g) and
>>>operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors and
>>>Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
>>>airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2. Section
>>>
>>>
>>7
>>
>>
>>>of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
>>>
>>>
>>aircraft
>>
>>
>>>and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
>>>Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
>>>
>>>This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO equipment
>>>
>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
>>>
>>>
>>equipment
>>
>>
>>>requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part of
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots follow
>>>operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the FAA
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
>>>safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states, Operating
>>>limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation encountered.
>>>
>>>
>>The
>>
>>
>>>ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
>>>
>>>
>>interest
>>
>>
>>>of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed operating
>>>limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating limitations
>>>
>>>
>>are
>>
>>
>>>understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the ASI
>>>
>>>
>>can
>>
>>
>>>require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating limitations
>>>prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
>>>
>>>1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
>>>2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
>>>
>>>
>>appropriately
>>
>>
>>>equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with 91.205,
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
>>>3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
>>>under 91.205 must
>>>be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of part
>>>
>>>
>>91.
>>
>>
>>>Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in the
>>>aircraft maintenance records.
>>>
>>>To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two questions:
>>>What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What equipment
>>>
>>>
>>is
>>
>>
>>>prudent or safe?
>>>
>>>So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules that
>>>effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
>>>equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT) and
>>>states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an ELT
>>>that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
>>>transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It states
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
>>>environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any class
>>>
>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as appropriate, or
>>>the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to state
>>>that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting equipment
>>>
>>>
>>must
>>
>>
>>>meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were tested
>>>
>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You will
>>>notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
>>>equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or must
>>>not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably, you
>>>
>>>
>>could
>>
>>
>>>build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
>>>requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
>>>
>>>You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
>>>
>>>
>>91.205(a)
>>
>>
>>>states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an approved
>>>safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights. Approved
>>>typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
>>>Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
>>>
>>>
>>conjunction
>>
>>
>>>with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved by
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed
>>>
>>>
>>on
>>
>>
>>>the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is expected
>>>that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
>>>equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
>>>considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO. Its
>>>
>>>
>>up
>>
>>
>>>to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
>>>
>>>
>>requirements
>>
>>
>>>prior to operating the aircraft.
>>>
>>>Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know that
>>>
>>>
>>per
>>
>>
>>>the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to be
>>>appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance
>>>
>>>
>>with
>>
>>
>>>91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we need.
>>>Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day VFR
>>>flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at night.
>>>
>>>
>>In
>>
>>
>>>paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required for
>>>day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and (c)(3)
>>>talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly stated
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
>>>
>>>
>>requirements
>>
>>
>>>of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an approval
>>>
>>>
>>from
>>
>>
>>>the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the requirements of
>>>FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything about
>>>
>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
>>>
>>>
>>that
>>
>>
>>>for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and if
>>>
>>>
>>the
>>
>>
>>>IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c) must
>>>also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio communications
>>>system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground facilities to
>>>
>>>
>>be
>>
>>
>>>used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
>>>sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
>>>
>>>
>>displaying
>>
>>
>>>hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
>>>
>>>
>>capacity,
>>
>>
>>>a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
>>>
>>>
>>gyroscopic
>>
>>
>>>direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e) of
>>>91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are using a
>>>VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment (DME).
>>>Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
>>>pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
>>>
>>>
>>aircraft.
>>
>>
>>>So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than those
>>>items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
>>>
>>>
>>remember
>>
>>
>>>that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
>>>
>>>
>>where
>>
>>
>>>our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in an
>>>amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you and
>>>
>>>
>>your
>>
>>
>>>family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your aircraft
>>>during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the aircraft
>>>and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of safety.
>>>Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
>>>category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by the
>>>
>>>
>>FAA
>>
>>
>>>through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
>>>manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of the
>>>equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
>>>
>>>
>>standards.
>>
>>
>>>In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we all
>>>want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
>>>
>>>
>>concern
>>
>>
>>>when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an airworthiness
>>>certificate.
>>>
>>>Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
>>>patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>--
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "First Flight" |
> Steve Glasgow wrote:
>
> >> The flight however was not without some unexpected excitement. After a
> near
> perfect takeoff and climb to 3,000 my EIS system went totally dead and
all
> engine instruments were gone . . . We determined the EIS problem was
> probably caused by over voltage of the alternator which caused it to make
an
> auto shutdown. < <
>
> Ken Simmons wrote:
>
> >> You mentioned the EIS failure was probably an alternator over-voltage
> that caused
> an auto shutdown. If you're needing a loaner it sounds like it damaged the
> EIS. Is that correct? < <
>
> Listers -
>
> In response to Ken's comments regarding survival of an engine monitor
> over-voltage situation, I wanted to suggest that potential buyers of
> avionics in general -- and engine monitors in particular -- verify that
> equipment to be used in their aircraft is protected against voltage
> transients and other over-voltage phenomena. As an engine monitor
> manufacturer focusing on the experimental market, we at I-K Technologies
> have designed our instruments to withstand significant over-voltage
> transients and other over-voltage
> conditions without interruption or failure.
>
> In addition, we've built significant redundancy into our instruments so
that
> multiple displays and support circuitry provide redundancy and fault
> tolerance in the event of a failure of a one component in the system for
any
> reason. Adding protection against over-voltage is fairly trivial and
should
> be a consideration before buying instruments -- particularly those that
> provide pilots with information regarding the health of their
> engine.
>
> Ralph Krongold
> CEO & Chief Engineer
> I-K Technologies
> www.i-ktechnologies.com
Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine monitor?
Every single time you start the engine you will drop down to at least 9.7
volts while at the same time wanting your engine monitor on so as to check
on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such all-in-one
instruments won't tolerate the low voltage rendering them useless during the
startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers could
respond to this.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
EAA Technical Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Email list vs. Web forum |
>
>For those of you who have never used a web based forum needs to informed of
>several key benefits:
>
>1st - [structured topics] - Painting/Priming topics can be kept separate
>from engine/accessory topics. This is very beneficial when you want to
>focus on a particular task.
>
>2nd - [searchable content] - Items of interest are much easier found when
>like topics are contained. Searching a mailing list of news group is very
>limited and time consuming.
>
>3rd - [Low "noise to signal" ratio] - Again, focus on topics that are
>important to you. When it's time to focus on another topic, that
>information is stored in an easy to find manner in their respective forum
>"group".
>
>4th - [Convenience of getting the information anytime, anywhere] (where
>there is an Internet connected computer.) - Want a chance to look up a topic
>while at the office then pick that reading up again when you go home?
>
>5th - [Personal Messages] - Termed "PM's" - these are mini-emails sent from
>one user of the forum to another without tying up your e-mail mailbox.
>Don't you get enough e-mail as it is?
>
>6th - [Protect your e-mail address] - as Dave pointed out, web forums do NOT
>reveal your e-mail address. You NEVER have to give your e-mail address in a
>message. Internet spiders cannot gain that information because it wasn't
>used in the message in the first place!
>
>Web based forums are a central way of holding discussions. If you think
>about it, mailing lists for our purpose are antiquated. Why should a single
>topic result in a few thousand e-mails? That's just ridiculous...
>
>As an exercise, I've setup a web based forum for the education of this
>group. If you are so inclined, please visit:
>
>http://forums.happyhangar.com
All good points, but I think there is one very big plus to an e-mail
based list that we shouldn't discount - once you sign up it those
messages come every day, and you tend to at least glance at the
subject lines before deleting them. If something looks interesting
you'll read it, and if you feel qualified to answer a question or
make a comment you'll do it.
Case in point - I subscribe to a number of web based forums on other
subjects. I may go several months between visits to some of them, as
there are too many other things pulling for my time. But those
RV-List messages are staring me in the face everyday, so I am drawn
in to responding to a few subjects that I feel qualified to comment
on. I bet if we had a web based forum instead of an e-mail list we
would have fewer responses to any given question.
I do like web based forums when I am looking for information from old
postings. But if I need a question answered right now, I'll take an
e-mail list any day as a lot more people will probably be aware of my
question in the next hour or two.
Just my opinion, FWIW.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
Randy,
That's exactly what seems to happen with a Blue Mountain EFIS/one on
start-up, so they recommend a small battery that can power the system
separate from the main alternator and battery during engine start. It
doesn't take much of a battery. You can see the simple wiring diagram on
Blue Mountain's site.
I am leaning toward a dual battery system with two 17ah batteries for my
EFIS/one. The second battery could be used to power the starter if the main
battery is too low. In that case, I would shut off the EFIS/one for the
start. I have an oil pressure warning light, which seems to be the main
concern for engine gauges on start.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 panel
Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine monitor?
Every single time you start the engine you will drop down to at least 9.7
volts while at the same time wanting your engine monitor on so as to check
on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such all-in-one
instruments won't tolerate the low voltage rendering them useless during the
startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers could
respond to this.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
EAA Technical Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Anodine |
John Brick wrote:
>
> If you meant anodize:
>
> Anodize. Aluminum anodizing is the electrochemical process by which aluminum
> is converted into aluminum oxide on the surface of a part. This coating is
> desirable in specific applications due to the following properties:
> Increased corrosion resistance
> Increased durability / wear resistance
> Ability to be colored through dying
> Excellent base or primer for secondary coatings
> The process of anodizing is rather simple but it requires extensive
> equipment to do it right.
Home anodizing is simpler than you may think........
http://my.execpc.com/~gert/anodize.html
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: tailwheel chains |
Hey Tom,
I lost one July 4 of this year. I operate off a smooth, closely clipped
grass strip. I can only assume that the other one had already been
lost, because that side had a screw-shut chain link installed when I
bought the plane.
Charlie
RV-4 N914RV
David Carter wrote:
>
>I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
>chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
>some specific info for him?
>
>David Carter
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Tom Green" <tomg(at)vansaircraft.com>
>To: "David Carter"
>Subject: Re: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>
>
>
>
>>Dave, no, but in all of the years, I have never seen it... it would be
>>interesting to know of an individual and how it happened... Tom
>>
>>Forwarded by: "Support"
>>Forwarded to: tomg
>>Send reply to: "David Carter"
>>From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
>>To: "Van's Aircraft - Support"
>>Subject: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>>
>>There's been some discussion of tailwheel chains coming loose - with the
>>Van's wire links being a persistent culprit. Has anyone taken the time to
>>pass this on to you?
>>
>>David Carter
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
>>To:
>>Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2003 8:12 AM
>>Subject: RV-List: tailwheel chains
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Awww geez, somebody was whining about getting back to building topics...
>>>
>>>
>>and I thought this list was just for BS'ing.
>>
>>
>>>Anyway, regarding the chain length on your tailwheel, loose is better
>>>
>>>
>than
>
>
>>tight. Don't fret too much here, just take out one chain length from
>>
>>
>being
>
>
>>tight and call it good.
>>
>>
>>>If your chains hit the bottom of your rudder, you can add the eyebolts
>>>
>>>
>to
>
>
>>the rudder horns and tailwheel bellcrank if you like. And make sure to
>>
>>
>put
>
>
>>your springs on the tailwheel end, even though they look nicer on the top
>>end. And if the chains still scratch the paint off of your rudder, cover
>>the chains with shrink tubing. You can get shrink tubing at your
>>
>>
>electrical
>
>
>>supply store and it comes in many colors including clear.
>>
>>
>>>IMHO, throw those funny teardrop shaped wire links that Van supplied in
>>>
>>>
>>the trash. I've seen too many of them come undone.
>>
>>
>>>Have fun... at least you know that you put the little wheel on the
>>>
>>>
>correct
>
>
>>end.
>>
>>
>>>Vince
>>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
David,
you have been Van'ed off. All of Van's employee's must take a class prior to
employement where they are trained to use this line via deep brain root
electro shock Pavlovian conditioning. Exmpl. "Have you ever heard of your
new product, Sam B's GoingtooFast canopy wax, causing unusually loud
emissions from the Vetterman exhaust systems you also sell", and without any
form of hesitation the response will be, "Why no, its never happened to any
of our planes, but I would love to meet anybody who has had that happen".
Now you must also bear in mind that all the employees are telepathically
linked much like insurance agents when offering quotes. So if you go to the
next employee with your story you will get this same line but the phrases
will be ordered differently. "Why no, I would love to meet anybody who has
had that happen, but its never happened to any of our planes".
You are welcome to use my name, but Tom will know it and avoid you for the
rest of eternity as I have brought many things to his attention to no avail.
The top of this list being their line of Amp gauges.
And before the Van's police jump in and trash me here, I am teasing a
little, Tom and I poke fun at each other at airshows all over. A big part of
their problem is they are making and shipping a lot of parts with a few
employees, so the little things get dropped through the cracks.
The problem is that with some springs when one has enough links to keep the
chain from placing a significant preload in the rudder spar then it might be
loose enough to have the clip spin. It can rotate to the point where it is
being pulled on the sides rather than on the ends. This causes the clip to
spread open, and voila, the wheel is free at last. If there was a way to
fine adjust it half a link then this wouldn't happen. I am going to try the
"list mentioned" spring shrink/stretch method first.
but, after burning 1700 homes in a 30 mile ring around my airport and
causing several small towns to vanish, the Cedar fire has still got a TFR
placed smack dab on top of my hangar. Although I am not happy about this, I
am one of the lucky ones. If you ever want a picture of Armageddon, come on
down to KSEE and take one from about 2000ft agl.
I sure do hope it is lifted by Nov 8th, as I would greatly love to go to
Cable. Probably the only good thing about the fires was I had to be in a
State Faculty/Senate Session all day today and would have missed the flyin.
W
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Fw: Fw: RV-List: tailwheel chains
I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
some specific info for him?
David Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Alodine & Anodize |
Listers,
Just to add to John's informative post, MacDirmid Corp. also produces a chromic
acid process (aka Alodining) called Iridite 14-2
Charlie Kuss
>snipped
>
>Alodine. This is a product that most of us use as part of the priming
>snipped
> [Note: Alodine is a trademark name of
>Henkel Corporation but it has come to be used generically. DuPont calls
>theirs 226S conversion coating. Poly-Fiber is Aluma-Dyne E-2300 Chromic Acid
>Conversion Coating.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Smith
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Alodine & Anodine
>
>
>Okay, excuse my ignorance, but what is the difference between these two
>products/processes? I'd like to do some corrosion protection, but am
>new to the 'primer' discussion.
>
>Thanks!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Austin,
I purchased a Nova power supply, wiring harness & 4 strobe heads from Strobes
N' More, on the recommendation of Mark N. I'm impressed with them. See the link
below for more info.
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/18/1829.htm?26
Like the Whelen units, this power supply allows you the choice of several flash
patterns. This unit also has the same power output as the Whelen units. These
strobe heads do not come with a magnifying lens. These can be purchased reasonably
from Vans. Lens part number is LN A612 and is found on the web page below
on Vans site.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1067746587-352-183&browse=lighting&product=strobe_parts
Charlie Kuss
>
>Hi Listers,
> I would like to add strobes to my finished RV wingtips.
>I have seen notes about cheaper alternatives to the big name suppliers, but
>their site usually shows bus flashers and amber lights etc.
>I do not need position lights, but would like to add white ( clear )
>multiple flash pattern lights to the tips...( pos. lights are separate and
>already in ).
>Any thoughts to offer ?
>Input greatly appreciated,
>Austin.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
area from the remainder.
I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
every oil change.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
> the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
> found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
> the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
> effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
> area from the remainder.
>
> I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
> kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
> system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
> long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
>
> One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
> every oil change.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
Just finished assembling mine a week ago. I was thinking that this could cause
trouble in the long run. It seemed pretty flimsy. I think it is about .062 and
I thought about making it .080, Then gave up that idea to keep from adding
weight. I don't think it has been a problem, but it is good to know and
something to keep an eye on...
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
Funny you should mention that Alex! I just finished fabricating a brand new
plate this afternoon, for the exact same reason. During my annual this
week, I found that plate was crached in nearly the same place and required a
new one.
Just an FYI, I have nearly the same setup Alex does, IO-360 with the
vertically mounted servo. I really don't know exactly how long mine has
been cracked, but the crack was a good 2" long, and it wasn't fresh, so I'm
guessing it's been growing for awhile. Also, it currently has 152hrs on it.
Like Alex said, I guess it needs to be checked more than once per year!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Peterson
Subject: RV-List: Cracked FAB mounting plate
During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
area from the remainder.
I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
every oil change.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Smith <dave(at)rv10project.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Anodine |
Anodozing sounds great, but that's more than I want to get into. Dan,
I've read your stuff on alodining before, so for the workload, that's
probably where I'm headed. Now....why prime afterwards? Obviously the
cockpit area makes sense, but a lot of the rest of the plane won't see
finish paint, so why prime? (basing this discussion on the fact that
most primers only help the finish coat stick, not prevent corrosion).
Any good suggestions on Alodining supplies?
Gert wrote:
>
>
>John Brick wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>If you meant anodize:
>>
>>Anodize. Aluminum anodizing is the electrochemical process by which aluminum
>>is converted into aluminum oxide on the surface of a part. This coating is
>>desirable in specific applications due to the following properties:
>> Increased corrosion resistance
>> Increased durability / wear resistance
>> Ability to be colored through dying
>> Excellent base or primer for secondary coatings
>>The process of anodizing is rather simple but it requires extensive
>>equipment to do it right.
>>
>>
>
>
>Home anodizing is simpler than you may think........
>http://my.execpc.com/~gert/anodize.html
>
>
>
>
--
Dave
http://www.rv10project.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
>
> I don't have any real good ideas as to why mine cracked, I
> have plenty of flex between the FAB and the cowl, yet still a
> snug fit. One thing I can think of is that I do a fair
> amount of wifferdills & wooptydoos, so maybe my engine moves
> more than most of the "straight and level" fliers.
>
> After making a new plate, I decided to trim some of the inner
> "snout" off my cowl, and make a longer rubber neck on the
> FAB, I figured it can't hurt.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
I also don't know the cause of my cracks either. The FAB on the Airflow
Performance servo is essentially the same as for the carb, so I doubt it
is that. Clearly, the cowl (due to engine motion) can exert a lot of
leverage on the FAB even if the connection is rubber, since it is so far
away from the mount.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Second and Third Flight |
Simply awesome! What a ride!
The EIS problem seems to have been a pin connector rather than an overvoltage or
undervoltage. At one point we simply connected the sub-D and everything has
been OK since.
Many KUDOS to the people at Grand Rapids!! They were very helpful and sent me
a loaner to have available the next day.
Many KUDOS also to Klaus at Lightspeed Engineering for his help earlier when we
were having Electronic Ignition problems. He was very helpful in the trouble
shooting process and sent a loaner box right away. My box which was out of warranty
was repaired for a very nominal fee and I was more than pleased with the
great service.
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EFIS-D10 Help! |
HTML_SHOUTING3, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY
Thanks all for the productive comments... Pulling the fuse on the keep
alive circuit did the trick. (I don't have an internal battery as there
are two n the plane...).
I also found the source of the problem - ME.... I was using the
setup program for the remote compass sensor, but didn't have it in the
circuit.... I guess I didn't read the warning on the lapTop screen
correctly while trying to fly and type at the same time....
In any case, Using the correct program I was successful in setting up
the compass. But, like many others, I'm not happy with the performance
of the EFIS-D10 internal compass. Any aircraft load change tends to
result in major heading errors...
I will now install the remote compass ( and use the correct setup
program) and evaluate the results.
So far, everything else is working as advertised... This is a very
nice unit. Wouldn't it be nice if Dynon installed all the necessary
signals to drive an auto-pilot?
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV 70+ Hrs
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: EFIS-D10 Help!
Jeff Point wrote:
>
> If I'm not mistaken, the internal battery also serves as a "keep
alive"
> if you have that option, so disconnecting the external keep
alive will
> not make a difference. Removing the internal battery might do
the trick.
>
Good point. Disconnect keep alive feed *and* the internal battery.
:-)
Sam Buchanan (didn't have the internal battery in mine when I had
to do
a hard reboot)
>>Fred, the only thing I know to do is to continue with efforts to
reboot
>>the EFIS. You will need to disconnect the "keep-alive" power
feed in
>>order to do a true reboot and get the EFIS out of Loader mode. I
bet the
>>unit will come back to life once you do that.
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I'm still having a problem setting the idle mixture. No matter how much we try
we can't seem to get the 50 or so RPM increase when we go to idle cutoff. We
can't even get an increase at all.
Starting form 1 1/2 turns out, we have been using 1/2 turns out to increase idle
rich. Can it be that there is a very narrow range on the setting and we need
to use 1/4 turns, 1/8 turns or less, instead of 1/2 turns?
Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | FAB mount cracks |
A photo of the FAB mounting plate cracks can be seen at:
http://www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson/misc.htm
Click on the little thumbnail for a better picture.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
>Well I am not too far along that I can't do a fix. I am going up a couple
of
>sizes until it is a little more rigid. Going up a couple sizes will really
add
>no weight for no bigger than it is. I also have vertical mount fuel servo.
Dunno about making the plate thicker! Better it crack than something on the
carb or servo!!
Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe A Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
I've had some mud dubbers at work inside the engine cowl. Hopefully cowl plugs
will help.
Thanks
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX 83 hours
South Florida
Email: ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night Phone: 561 622 0960
Fax: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
Mine cracked somewhere between 350 and 400 hours TTSN
Gary Zilik
RV-6A N99PZ
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote:
>
>Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
>>the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
>>found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
>>the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
>>effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
>>area from the remainder.
>>
>>I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
>>kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
>>system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
>>long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
>>
>>One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
>>every oil change.
>>
>>Alex Peterson
>>Maple Grove, MN
>>RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
>>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>>
>>
>>
>
>Just finished assembling mine a week ago. I was thinking that this could cause
>trouble in the long run. It seemed pretty flimsy. I think it is about .062 and
>I thought about making it .080, Then gave up that idea to keep from adding
>weight. I don't think it has been a problem, but it is good to know and
>something to keep an eye on...
>
>Phil
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)comcast.net> |
Try Bruce's Custom Covers; he made a very nice set for my -8.
www.aircraftcovers.com
Ken Balch
RV-8 N118KB
Gabe A Ferrer wrote:
>
>Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
>
>I've had some mud dubbers at work inside the engine cowl. Hopefully cowl plugs
will help.
>
>Thanks
>
>Gabe A Ferrer
>RV6 N2GX 83 hours
>South Florida
>Email: ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
>Cell: 561 758 8894
>Night Phone: 561 622 0960
>Fax: 561 622 0960
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "First Flight" |
In a message dated 11/1/2003 6:17:35 PM Eastern Standard Time,
2pilots(at)comcast.net writes:
2pilots(at)comcast.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "I-K Technologies (Ralph Krongold)" <2pilots(at)comcast.net> |
Randy Lervold wrote:
> Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine
monitor?
> Every single time you start the engine you will drop down to at least 9.7
> volts while at the same time wanting your engine monitor on so as to check
> on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such all-in-one
> instruments won't tolerate the low voltage rendering them useless during
the
> startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers could
> respond to this.
You are absolutely right, Randy. Whereas over-voltage is a condition to be
protected against in terms of damaging instruments, under-voltage is a
condition to be guarded against in order to prevent a brown-out, reset or
even a hang-up of the internal microprocessor(s) in today's engine monitors
and other micro-based units.
Our initial testing years ago had been performed on a hand-cranked Vari-EZ,
which had all instruments turned off until the pilot got the engine
running -- at which point he immediately powered up his instruments and
checked oil pressure, etc. It was actually our experience with the Van's
RV-9 factory demonstrator a couple of years ago when the issue of power-up
starting of the engine monitor came up. When Van's mechanics and pilots
brought to our attention that problems arose when starting the engine with
the IK2000 monitor on, and a manual recycling of the instrument power was
occasionally required to get good engine info, I checked with users of other
engine monitors.
Just as Terry indicated, a number of other manufacturers indicated that
either a secondary battery was required during engine start, or -- better
yet -- they said to leave the instrument off until engine start. Thought we
were off the hook! However, the gurus at Van's didn't accept that. Hence, we
have since made hardware and software changes to prevent any kind of
hang-up, reset or other anomalies to mitigate the effects of under-voltage.
The Van's demo model and our other units have been since corrected with just
a software update, and all new models have both software and hardware
protection against under-voltage problems.
Our thanks to the folks at Van's for bringing this to our attention a couple
of years
ago and for not accepting a second battery or power-turn-on after engine
start, and to Tom Emery and his Chino-based RV-6A as a test vehicle to solve
this nasty problem ... and thanks to Randy for bringing it up.
Ralph Krongold
I-K Technologies
www.i-ktechnologies.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I've been told the Grand Rapids EIS can and should be on during start.
I haven't heard of under voltage being a problem for it. Can anyone
using it verify?
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 cowl....blah
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: I-K Technologies (Ralph Krongold) [mailto:2pilots(at)comcast.net]
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:43 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>
>
> --> <2pilots(at)comcast.net>
>
> Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> > Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine
> monitor?
> > Every single time you start the engine you will drop down
> to at least
> > 9.7 volts while at the same time wanting your engine
> monitor on so as
> > to check on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such
> > all-in-one instruments won't tolerate the low voltage
> rendering them
> > useless during
> the
> > startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers
> > could respond to this.
>
> You are absolutely right, Randy. Whereas over-voltage is a
> condition to be protected against in terms of damaging
> instruments, under-voltage is a condition to be guarded
> against in order to prevent a brown-out, reset or even a
> hang-up of the internal microprocessor(s) in today's engine
> monitors and other micro-based units.
>
> Our initial testing years ago had been performed on a
> hand-cranked Vari-EZ, which had all instruments turned off
> until the pilot got the engine running -- at which point he
> immediately powered up his instruments and checked oil
> pressure, etc. It was actually our experience with the Van's
> RV-9 factory demonstrator a couple of years ago when the
> issue of power-up starting of the engine monitor came up.
> When Van's mechanics and pilots brought to our attention that
> problems arose when starting the engine with the IK2000
> monitor on, and a manual recycling of the instrument power
> was occasionally required to get good engine info, I checked
> with users of other engine monitors.
>
> Just as Terry indicated, a number of other manufacturers
> indicated that either a secondary battery was required during
> engine start, or -- better yet -- they said to leave the
> instrument off until engine start. Thought we were off the
> hook! However, the gurus at Van's didn't accept that. Hence,
> we have since made hardware and software changes to prevent
> any kind of hang-up, reset or other anomalies to mitigate the
> effects of under-voltage. The Van's demo model and our other
> units have been since corrected with just a software update,
> and all new models have both software and hardware
> protection against under-voltage problems.
>
> Our thanks to the folks at Van's for bringing this to our
> attention a couple of years ago and for not accepting a
> second battery or power-turn-on after engine start, and to
> Tom Emery and his Chino-based RV-6A as a test vehicle to
> solve this nasty problem ... and thanks to Randy for bringing it up.
>
> Ralph Krongold
> I-K Technologies
> www.i-ktechnologies.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
Easy to make. Get some 3 inch poly foam and cut to shape. Cover with
vinyl or whatever. If you don't want to learn to sew and spouse won't or
can't, take foam to upholstery shop and have it done in colors to match
your RV.
A cheaper way if you are one of those who'd rather save the money for gas
is to put foam in colorful plastic baggie and tie at the back.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
>
>I also don't know the cause of my cracks either.
Wouldn't it be that the plate is being flexed a bunch?? There is a fair
amount of weight on long levers from a relatively small mounting
footprint. I can't picture the whole installation just now but three
possible solutions come to mind:
1 - add a brace or strut from front and maybe rear of plate up to ???
2 - make a new plate of steel - say .032 steel Isn't steel better able to
withstand repeated flexing? But which steel?
3 - make a plate with ribs - probably attached strips of angle like 1/2 by 1.0.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine & Anodine |
> Anodozing sounds great, but that's more than I want to get into. Dan,
> I've read your stuff on alodining before, so for the workload, that's
> probably where I'm headed. Now....why prime afterwards? Obviously the
> cockpit area makes sense, but a lot of the rest of the plane won't see
> finish paint, so why prime? (basing this discussion on the fact that
> most primers only help the finish coat stick, not prevent corrosion).
Whoa...I'm tempted not to touch this for obvious reasons, but here goes.
You're right that some primers are intended as a middle layer between paint
and metal. However...some primers are designed exclusively as a sealer for
bare metal and are *not* intended to have a top coat. Case in point, the
AKZO 2-part epoxy primer that I used.
It's intended for use on interior structure that won't get painted. It's
considered a durable and long-lasting primer/sealer.
Ok, that's it on this topic for me! I'm out!
> Any good suggestions on Alodining supplies?
Aircraft Spruce sells Alodine 1201. I've never had to ship it (just drove
over), though, so you might want to find a local supplier if you're not
anywhere near Spruce -- to avoid hazmat shipping costs.
In terms of other "supplies," all I've got for alodining are some plastic
cups, zip-loc bags, and cheap foam brushes. Others have made dip troughs
and PVC dipping pipes, etc., but I like the brush on or confined soaking
(zip-loc bag) myself...uses less alodine, and I don't recycle it (loses
effectiveness).
Ok, really, I'm out!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com> |
| Subject: | IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
On Wed Oct 29 12:01:27 2003, Mike Robertson wrote :
>[ ... snip ... ]
>For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed on
>the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved.
Mike,
I have not seen this statement before. Where does it come from? What does it
really mean?
It seems like the operating limitations put the burden on the operator for
anything beyond day / vfr. So why should the DAR get concerned about ifr
equipment, homemade or otherwise.
We are not asking the DAR for ifr certification, so why would the subject
even come up?
Thanks,
jb
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net> |
"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com
| Subject: | Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
Can someone send me a link to more info on the LED lighting that's being
talked about? I want to find out if this is a more efficient (weight and
number of holes to cut in my wing) and less expensive way to combine
landing, nav, and strobe lights for IFR than the route I was going to take.
Thanks,
-Will Allen
RV8 Wings
North Bend, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
You're right. Who, amongst us wants to try to build a GPS. For that matter
who would want to try to build a transponder. But the bottom line fact
remains that there is nothing that has to be TSO'd to fly IFR.
Mike
>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 06:21:27 -0500
>
>
>But practically speaking, this means the IFR GPS must be TSO'd.
>
>If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the
>manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type
>certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a
>hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO
>requirements.
>
>Kevin Horton
>
> >
> >Kevin,
> >
> >What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR
>use
> >but do not have to BE TSO'd.
> >
> >Mike
> >
> >
> >>From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
> >>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
> >>Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 22:23:47 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >>Great stuff Mike.
> >>
> >>You didn't mention GPSs. My understanding is that GPSs that are to
> >>navigate when IFR must meet the requirements of TSO C129A. Do you
> >>concur? That is certainly the way our regs are interpreted up here
> >>in Canada, but I'm not sure of the situation in the US.
> >>
> >>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> >>Ottawa, Canada
> >>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
> >>
> >>
>
> >> >
> >> >Several weeks ago I siad that I would come up with something about
> >> >Homebuilts and the need for TSO'd equipment. Well, for better of
>worse
> >>here
> >> >it is. It is quite lenghtly so if you are interested now is the
>time to
> >> >delete and carry on. Any comments are very welcome.
> >> >
> >> >Mike Robertson
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >HOMEBUILTS AND IFR
> >> >By Mike Robertson
> >> >
> >> >Recently the issue has come up several times about Amateur-Built
>aircraft
> >> >and their ability to fly under Instrument Flight Rules (IFR). There
>are
> >> >some that say that Amateur-Built aircraft cannot be certified to fly
>IFR
> >> >unless the instruments and equipment installed in them are TSOD (TSO
> >>means
> >> >Technical Standard Order). There are some that say that there are NO
> >> >requirements at all and that they cant be stopped from flying IFR.
>Then
> >> >there are some in the middle that say that certain instruments and
> >>equipment
> >> >must be TSOd. In fact these are all incorrect. The real truth is
> >> >somewhere in the middle. Before going any further let me explain
>that
> >>this
> >> >article is mostly for new aircraft. Aircraft that have already been
> >>issued
> >> >an airworthiness certificate and operating limitations must follow
>the
> >> >operating limitations, or apply to have the operating limitations
> >>amended.
> >> >
> >> >Amateur-Built aircraft today are certificated under 14 CFR 21.191(g)
>and
> >> >operated under 14 CFR 91 (FAR 91). The guidance that FAA Inspectors
>and
> >> >Designated Airworthiness Representatives (DARs) reference to issue
> >> >airworthiness certificates to ALL aircraft is FAA Order 8130.2.
>Section
> >>7
> >> >of the Order covers the requirements for Experimental Amateur-Built
> >>aircraft
> >> >and tells us about eligibility, aircraft inspection, issuance of the
> >> >Airworthiness Certificate, and the issuance of Operating Limitations.
> >> >
> >> >This Order does not specifically mention requirements for TSO
>equipment
> >>and
> >> >instruments to be installed in Amateur-Built aircraft. The key to
> >>equipment
> >> >requirements is found in the operating limitations, which are a part
>of
> >>the
> >> >airworthiness certificate. 14 CFR 91.9(a) requires that pilots
>follow
> >> >operating limitations. 14 CFR 91.319(c) and (e) both authorize the
>FAA
> >>to
> >> >issue necessary limitations that are prescribed in the interest of
> >> >safety. FAA Order 8130.2 paragraph 134, paragraph (a) states,
>Operating
> >> >limitation must be designed to fit the specific situation
>encountered.
> >>The
> >> >ASI may impose any additional limitations deemed necessary in the
> >>interest
> >> >of safety. The ASI and/or designee must review each imposed
>operating
> >> >limitation with the applicant to ensure that the operating
>limitations
> > >are
> >> >understood by the applicant. However, this does not mean that the
>ASI
> >>can
> >> >require the use of TSOd equipment. The following operating
>limitations
> >> >prescribe aircraft equipment requirements and may be imposed:
> >> >
> >> >1. This aircraft is to be operated under VFR, day only or;
> > > >2. After completion of phase I flight testing, unless
> >>appropriately
> >> >equipped for night and/or instrument flight in accordance with
>91.205,
> >>this
> >> >aircraft is to be operated VFR, day only and,
> >> >3. Aircraft instruments and equipment installed and used
> >> >under 91.205 must
> >> >be inspected and maintained in accordance with the requirements of
>part
> >>91.
> >> >Any maintenance or inspection of this equipment must be recorded in
>the
> >> >aircraft maintenance records.
> >> >
> >> >To understand equipment requirements for IFR, we must ask two
>questions:
> >> >What are the Part 91 requirements for the equipment? And, What
>equipment
> >>is
> >> >prudent or safe?
> >> >
> >> >So lets look at FAR 91 and see what we have. There are three rules
>that
> >> >effect the operation of amateur-built aircraft that do mention TSO
> >> >equipment. FAR 91.207 address emergency locator transmitters (ELT)
>and
> >> >states that any new installations after June 21, 1995, may not use an
>ELT
> >> >that meets the requirements of TSO-C91. FAR 91.215 addresses ATC
> >> >transponders and altitude reporting equipment and their use. It
>states
> >>that
> >> >the ATC transponder equipment installed must meet the performance and
> >> >environmental requirements of any class of TSO-C47b (Mode A) or any
>class
> >>of
> >> >TSO-C74b (Mode A with altitude reporting capabilities) as
>appropriate, or
> >> >the appropriate class of TSO-C112 (Mode S). FAR 91.217 goes on to
>state
> >> >that the altimeters and digitizers in the altitude reporting
>equipment
> >>must
> >> >meet the standards in TSO-C10b and TSO-C88, respectively, or were
>tested
> >>and
> >> >calibrated and shown to meet the standard referenced therein. You
>will
> >> >notice that in each of these rules that there is no wording that this
> >> >equipment must, in fact, be TSOd. Each does say that they must, or
>must
> >> >not, meet the requirements of their prospective TSO. Conceivably,
>you
> >>could
> >> >build your own transponder, and if you are able to prove it meets the
> >> >requirements of the appropriate TSO, you could use it.
> >> >
> >> >You will also notice rules that use the word, approved. Section
> >>91.205(a)
> >> >states, or FAA approved equivalents. Paragraph (b) references an
>approved
> >> >safety belt. Paragraph (c) requires approved position lights.
>Approved
> >> >typically means something that is approved by the FAA through a Parts
> >> >Manufacture Approval (PMA), a Technical Standard Order (TS0), in
> >>conjunction
> >> >with a type certification procedure, or in any other manner approved
>by
> >>the
> >> >Administrator (21.305). For amateur built aircraft, equipment
>installed
> >>on
> >> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved. It is
>expected
> >> >that operating limitations will be issued as necessary to cover this
> >> >equipment, in the interest of safety. Even though this equipment is
> >> >considered approved, it still may not meet the standards of a TSO.
>Its
> >>up
> >> >to the operator to ensure that the equipment meets all Part 91
> >>requirements
> >> >prior to operating the aircraft.
> >> >
> >> >Even though 91.205(a) excludes amateur-built aircraft, we now know
>that
> >>per
> >> >the operating limitations amateur built aircraft are required by to
>be
> >> >appropriately equipped for night and/or instrument flight in
>accordance
> >>with
> >> >91.205 to operate under IFR, so lets take a look and see what we
>need.
> >> >Paragraph (b) talks about those basic instruments required for day
>VFR
> >> >flight. Paragraph (c) gives the requirements for VFR flight at
>night.
> >>In
> >> >paragraph (1) it states that those instruments and equipment required
>for
> >> >day VFR per paragraph (b) must be installed. Paragraph (c)(2) and
>(c)(3)
> >> >talk about position lights and anticollision lights, and clearly
>stated
> >>that
> >> >they must be approved. To be approved the lights must meet the
> >>requirements
> >> >of FAR 23 at a minimum. Therefore, if they do not come with an
>approval
> > >from
> >> >the FAA then you must be able to prove that they meet the
>requirements of
> >> >FAR 23. But you will notice that paragraph (c) doesnt say anything
>about
> >>a
> >> >TSO. Paragraph (d) gives the requirements for IFR flight. It states
> > >that
> >> >for IFR flight all the instruments in paragraph (b) are required, and
>if
> >>the
> >> >IFR flight is to be at night then the requirements of paragraph (c)
>must
> >> >also be met. Then the paragraph states that two-way radio
>communications
> >> >system and navigational equipment appropriate to the ground
>facilities to
> >>be
> >> >used, a gyroscopic rate-of-turn indicator, a slip-skid indicator, a
> >> >sensitive altimeter adjustable for barometric pressure, a clock
> >>displaying
> >> >hours, minutes, and seconds, a generator or alternator of adequate
> >>capacity,
> >> >a gyroscopic pitch and bank indicator (artificial horizon), and a
> >>gyroscopic
> >> >direction indicator (directional gyro or equivalent). Paragraph (e)
>of
> >> >91.205 is for flight above 24,000 feet and states that if you are
>using a
> >> >VOR then you must also have approved distance measuring equipment
>(DME).
> >> >Paragraphs (f), (g), and (h) talk about Cat II and Cat III and do not
> >> >pertain to this article unless you plan on building a jet powered
> >>aircraft.
> >> >
> >> >So, after thoroughly looking at FAR 91.205 we see that other than
>those
> >> >items already discussed there is no mention about a TSO. We must
> >>remember
> >> >that a TSO is a standard to which equipment is manufactured. This is
> >>where
> >> >our second question comes in. As an instrument pilot flying IFR in
>an
> >> >amateur built aircraft, what equipment is prudent and safe for you
>and
> >>your
> >> >family to fly with? It is necessary that when evaluating your
>aircraft
> >> >during certification, that the FAA or designee (DAR) inspect the
>aircraft
> >> >and issue the necessary operating limitations in the interest of
>safety.
> >> >Remember, all the equipment listed in 91.205 installed in a STANDARD
> >> >category aircraft at the time of its certification, was evaluated by
>the
> >>FAA
> >> >through a type certification process, a TSO process, or a parts
> >> >manufacturing process (PMA). For an amateur built aircraft most of
>the
> >> >equipment listed in Part 91.205 requires no adhereance to any FAA
> >>standards.
> >> >
> >> >In light of how much time has been spent building these aircraft, we
>all
> >> >want to operate them safely for many years. And safety is the first
> >>concern
> >> >when the aircraft are being inspected for issuance of an
>airworthiness
> >> >certificate.
> >> >
> >> >Add MSN 8 Internet Software to your current Internet access and enjoy
> >> >patented spam control and more. Get two months FREE!
> > > >
> >
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip |
All-
I am thinking of taking advantage of all those
switches in the Infinity Aerospace grip.
Has anyone run a high pressure fuel pump and the
lights through the grip?
The wires look like 20/22 gauge wire - did you put a
relay in between the switch and the rest of the
circuit (fuse/circuit breaker etc.)?
Thanks
Dag
====
*****************
Dag Adamson
617 513 1182
Cambridge, MA
Grand Junction, CO
*****************
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> |
<"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com>
| Subject: | Re: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
http://www.creativair.com
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
<"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
Can someone send me a link to more info on the LED lighting that's being
talked about? I want to find out if this is a more efficient (weight and
number of holes to cut in my wing) and less expensive way to combine
landing, nav, and strobe lights for IFR than the route I was going to take.
Thanks,
-Will Allen
RV8 Wings
North Bend, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Doug Weiler ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Doug Weiler
Subject: RV-4 Canopy Support & Hold-Open Bracket
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/dougweil@pressenter.com.11.02.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
Alex,
Mine also cracked at 230 hrs. I made a new plate from .062 aluminimum & added
a steel brace dropping down from one of the front crank case bolts to the front
bolt attaching the air box to the plate. This stiffens it up dramatically,
avoiding motion transmitted fom the flexible air intake coupling. I'm sorry I
can't remember which lister suggested this method, but it was not my idea. 400
hrs later & it's still looking good.
Regards,
Chris Good, http://rv.supermatrix.com
West Bend, WI
RV-6A, flying 630 hrs.
--
--------- Original Message ---------
DATE: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:56:22
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
>
>During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
>the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
>found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
>the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
>effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
>area from the remainder.
>
>I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
>kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
>system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
>long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
>
>One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
>every oil change.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
FREE ADHD DVD or CD-Rom (your choice) - click here!
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
> Alex,
>
> Mine also cracked at 230 hrs. I made a new plate from .062
> aluminimum & added a steel brace dropping down from one of
> the front crank case bolts to the front bolt attaching the
> air box to the plate. This stiffens it up dramatically,
> avoiding motion transmitted fom the flexible air intake
> coupling. I'm sorry I can't remember which lister suggested
> this method, but it was not my idea. 400 hrs later & it's
> still looking good.
>
> Regards,
>
> Chris Good, http://rv.supermatrix.com
> West Bend, WI
> RV-6A, flying 630 hrs.
Chris, thanks for the idea. One always needs to worry when something is
stiffened up - I guess in this case the rubber sheet interface between
the FAB and the cowl should take the motion. I did find that the
Airflow Performance mounting ring had a very sharp edge, which would
have greatly decreased the time for fatigue cracks to show up. It now
has a nice fillet at the edge of interest.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip |
Yes, you need to use relays. I run my flaps through the grip.
My Infinity grip set up...
PTT---Trigger
Alieron/elevator trim hat
Flaps down and up with limit switch for automatic shut off
Comm1 flip/flp and playback for my SL15
TruTrack Control Wheel Autopilot Switch
Previous/next screens on my GRT engine monitor
Ross Mickey
RV6A N9PT
Inspection on Thursday
-----Original Message-----
From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip
All-
I am thinking of taking advantage of all those
switches in the Infinity Aerospace grip.
Has anyone run a high pressure fuel pump and the
lights through the grip?
The wires look like 20/22 gauge wire - did you put a
relay in between the switch and the rest of the
circuit (fuse/circuit breaker etc.)?
Dag
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
I have the EIS 4000 in my-8 and it is wired to come on with the master
switch as recommended. My display only dims when I crank it and the OAT is
around 60 degrees or less. Once the unit warms up, like when I stop for gas
and then re-start there is no drop off in the display. Even when it is cold
outside the display goes to normal without resetting within 2 seconds at
the most. It is certainly not a problem....
Ed Perry
RV-8 85 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: First Flight
>
> I've been told the Grand Rapids EIS can and should be on during start.
> I haven't heard of under voltage being a problem for it. Can anyone
> using it verify?
>
> -
> Larry Bowen, RV-8 cowl....blah
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: I-K Technologies (Ralph Krongold) [mailto:2pilots(at)comcast.net]
> > Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 10:43 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: First Flight
> >
> >
> > --> <2pilots(at)comcast.net>
> >
> > Randy Lervold wrote:
> >
> > > Guys, isn't an UNDER volt situation more of a problem for an engine
> > monitor?
> > > Every single time you start the engine you will drop down
> > to at least
> > > 9.7 volts while at the same time wanting your engine
> > monitor on so as
> > > to check on oil pressure, system voltage, etc. Many (most?) such
> > > all-in-one instruments won't tolerate the low voltage
> > rendering them
> > > useless during
> > the
> > > startup phase. Not good IMHO. Perhaps Ralph and other manufacturers
> > > could respond to this.
> >
> > You are absolutely right, Randy. Whereas over-voltage is a
> > condition to be protected against in terms of damaging
> > instruments, under-voltage is a condition to be guarded
> > against in order to prevent a brown-out, reset or even a
> > hang-up of the internal microprocessor(s) in today's engine
> > monitors and other micro-based units.
> >
> > Our initial testing years ago had been performed on a
> > hand-cranked Vari-EZ, which had all instruments turned off
> > until the pilot got the engine running -- at which point he
> > immediately powered up his instruments and checked oil
> > pressure, etc. It was actually our experience with the Van's
> > RV-9 factory demonstrator a couple of years ago when the
> > issue of power-up starting of the engine monitor came up.
> > When Van's mechanics and pilots brought to our attention that
> > problems arose when starting the engine with the IK2000
> > monitor on, and a manual recycling of the instrument power
> > was occasionally required to get good engine info, I checked
> > with users of other engine monitors.
> >
> > Just as Terry indicated, a number of other manufacturers
> > indicated that either a secondary battery was required during
> > engine start, or -- better yet -- they said to leave the
> > instrument off until engine start. Thought we were off the
> > hook! However, the gurus at Van's didn't accept that. Hence,
> > we have since made hardware and software changes to prevent
> > any kind of hang-up, reset or other anomalies to mitigate the
> > effects of under-voltage. The Van's demo model and our other
> > units have been since corrected with just a software update,
> > and all new models have both software and hardware
> > protection against under-voltage problems.
> >
> > Our thanks to the folks at Van's for bringing this to our
> > attention a couple of years ago and for not accepting a
> > second battery or power-turn-on after engine start, and to
> > Tom Emery and his Chino-based RV-6A as a test vehicle to
> > solve this nasty problem ... and thanks to Randy for bringing it up.
> >
> > Ralph Krongold
> > I-K Technologies
> > www.i-ktechnologies.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Email list vs Web forum |
| From: | "Jake Wegman" <jake(at)happyhangar.com> |
Good afternoon everyone,
Kevin, as always you provide very concise and valid input. Thank you!
A point that comes to mind with the active e-mail list participation is
that there are many topics that wander off track and provide little value
to the original issue.
I understand that topic wandering can occur regardless of the format,
however I am convinced that web based forums are better situated to
maintain the original topic integrity.
There are web based forums that just wouldn't scale as an e-mail list due
to the diversity of the common theme (many have started this way). I see
the rv-forums as something that could grow beyond what the e-mail lists
offer bringing better communal value in the coming years.
To help with the convienance issue, I'm certain that you are aware of some
features in use by certain web based forums that aid in the notification
of the participants regarding forum activity.
One such feature is "topic notification" via e-mail. When you are
participating in a topic (thread) and new responses are posted, you are
informed of that via e-mail (which provides a link to the relevant topic).
There are also methods of subscribing to a category of topics such as the
"Engine/Accessory" category, if new messages are posted you can be
notified via e-mail just like the thread notification.
Another use of web base forums (that I've seen used with success) are
Manufacturer Direct forums where the manufacturer is given the ability to
moderate their section of the forum. Getting info from the "horses mouth"
is something that I miss in the RV-list. Perhaps if they see that they
can participate in a safe, cordial manner, they may take to it as an
effective method to promotion and support thier product. Can you imagine
a Manufacturer Direct category with forums for Vans Aircraft, Lycoming,
Hartzell, Dynon and others where the focus is on their product with direct
responses by them?
For some, the rv-list is a social venue. If a venue is provided via way
of a "General topic" forum, it wouldn't interfere with the "meat" of the
other technical categories. Many have found this worth the simple
convenience lost from the e-mails in your inbox...
And by goodness, no more erroneous virus scares!
regards,
Jake
rv-8 emp
>>All good points, but I think there is one very big plus to an e-mail
based list that we shouldn't discount - once you sign up it those
messages come every day, and you tend to at least glance at the
>>subject lines before deleting them. If something looks interesting
you'll read it, and if you feel qualified to answer a question or make a
comment you'll do it.
>>
>>Case in point - I subscribe to a number of web based forums on other
subjects. I may go several months between visits to some of them, as
RV-List messages are staring me in the face everyday, so I am drawn in
to responding to a few subjects that I feel qualified to comment on. I
bet if we had a web based forum instead of an e-mail list we would have
fewer responses to any given question.
>>
>>I do like web based forums when I am looking for information from old
postings. But if I need a question answered right now, I'll take an
e-mail list any day as a lot more people will probably be aware of my
question in the next hour or two.
>>
>>Just my opinion, FWIW.
>>--
>>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>>Ottawa, Canada
>>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Email list vs Web forum |
On Sun, 2 Nov 2003, Jake Wegman wrote:
--snip--
> Another use of web base forums (that I've seen used with success) are
> Manufacturer Direct forums where the manufacturer is given the ability to
> moderate their section of the forum. Getting info from the "horses mouth"
> is something that I miss in the RV-list. Perhaps if they see that they
> can participate in a safe, cordial manner, they may take to it as an
> effective method to promotion and support thier product. Can you imagine
> a Manufacturer Direct category with forums for Vans Aircraft, Lycoming,
> Hartzell, Dynon and others where the focus is on their product with direct
> responses by them?
Jake:
I think that's a good idea, but its success depends on the willingness of the
manufacturer to participate more than the type of forum used. In practice,
if the manufacter is (or has a person on staff who is) a webophile they'll
participate, otherwise probably not. For several years I've been discussing
the idea of a forum with bona fide "expert" advice on building issues, with
some of the experts who might participate. The bottom line is that, in
general, the experts are too busy developing and maintaining their expertise to
participate in such an exercise, unless they happen to be a webophile, which
most aren't.
Tedd McHenry
VAF Western Canada Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip |
My low pressure FP is switched the Infinity Grip without a relay. It's
tested fine, but the pump hasn't been run for any length of time -- not
ready to crank the engine yet. The switch is rated to 8 amps. I don't
recall what my fuel pump draws, it's fused for 5 amps. Not sure what
the specs on your fuel pump are...
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 in progress...
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: dag adamson [mailto:dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Sunday, November 02, 2003 2:22 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip
>
>
>
> All-
>
> I am thinking of taking advantage of all those
> switches in the Infinity Aerospace grip.
>
> Has anyone run a high pressure fuel pump and the
> lights through the grip?
>
> The wires look like 20/22 gauge wire - did you put a
> relay in between the switch and the rest of the
> circuit (fuse/circuit breaker etc.)?
>
> Thanks
> Dag
>
> ====
> *****************
> Dag Adamson
> 617 513 1182
> Cambridge, MA
> Grand Junction, CO
> *****************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)velocitus.net> |
1/2 turn is lot. Try using 1/8 to get into the ballpark, then use less than
that to fine tune. The actual RPM drop you want depends on your field
elevation. If you're at or near sea level, you don't need more than 25. I
operate from an area around 2400 agl, and I find that a 30rpm drop works
great. Even when I go to sea level I still get around 20.
If you live in Denver you may want more of a drop so you aren't too lean at
low elevations. It won't hurt anything, but it may sputter a little from
being to lean. As far as idle mixture goes, it's better to be too lean than
too rich. Those plugs foul real easily. In addition to a leanish idle
mixture I always lean aggressively on the ground.
Ed Bundy
RV6A 600+ hours
>I'm still having a problem setting the idle mixture. No matter
>how much we try we can't seem to get the 50 or so RPM increase
>when we go to idle cutoff. We can't even get an increase at all.
>
>Starting form 1 1/2 turns out, we have been using 1/2 turns out to
>increase idle rich. Can it be that there is a very narrow range
>on the setting and we need to use 1/4 turns, 1/8 turns or less,
>instead of 1/2 turns?
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Bean <jim-bean(at)att.net> |
Excellent description by John Brick. I would add that Alodine is
electrically conductive while Anodize is an electrical insulator.
Jim Bean
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
Thanks Bill for the reply,
A few questions that I couldn't find on your website:
Does the green and red side come with the landing light so that one could be
used as a taxi light?
How would weight compare to a traditional light system?
Any idea on what the strobe system you're working on will cost?
And are you going to do a tail light to complete the system?
Thanks,
-Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
http://www.creativair.com
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
<"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
Can someone send me a link to more info on the LED lighting that's being
talked about? I want to find out if this is a more efficient (weight and
number of holes to cut in my wing) and less expensive way to combine
landing, nav, and strobe lights for IFR than the route I was going to take.
Thanks,
-Will Allen
RV8 Wings
North Bend, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
Hey Will...
Yes, You can get the LED position lights with landing lights that can be
aimed for landing or taxi, and soon I'll have 24 watt HID landing lights
that will integrate with the LED position lights if you like. These HID
lamps would be brighter than 100 watt halogen lamps and draw less amps.
However, you cannot use any Wig-Wag flasher units with HID lamps...
The LED lights are MUCH light than tradition lights. I have them both, so
as I will weigh them as soon as I go out to the hangar again. I have the
prototype stobe power supply in my airplane, and it weights 7 oz less than
the Whelen HDCAF power supply.
Right now I am including the Whelen A500 Tail Position/Strobe Light as part
of my strobe kit...
My guess is that my complete light system; LED nav lights, strobes w/single
power supply, and landing lights w/or w/o wig-wag flasher, will be
signifigantly less exspensive than any existing system, unless you go with
the HID lamps, which are not cheap...
I should have final pricing in the next few weeks...
Hope this helps!
-Bill VonDane
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
www.vondane.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
Thanks Bill for the reply,
A few questions that I couldn't find on your website:
Does the green and red side come with the landing light so that one could be
used as a taxi light?
How would weight compare to a traditional light system?
Any idea on what the strobe system you're working on will cost?
And are you going to do a tail light to complete the system?
Thanks,
-Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
http://www.creativair.com
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
<"'rv8-list(at)matronics.com'"(at)barracuda.matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
Can someone send me a link to more info on the LED lighting that's being
talked about? I want to find out if this is a more efficient (weight and
number of holes to cut in my wing) and less expensive way to combine
landing, nav, and strobe lights for IFR than the route I was going to take.
Thanks,
-Will Allen
RV8 Wings
North Bend, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eregensburg <eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com> |
It's with a great deal of regret I have to announce I am putting my RV6A up
for sale. Personal reasons are to blame (saving a marriage etc) N925RV was
built by Fred Stucklen (I am the 2nd owner) and first flew in 1993. She is
very well equiped - full IFR certified with Garmin 300XL GPS, Dual VORS,
ADF, Auto pilot, electric trim and electric flaps and more. She is in the
shop undergoing her annual right now. I just returned from flying her to &
from the AOPA Expo in Philly. She flies like a dream and I hate to sell her.
Going price $75K . For more info contact me directly at
eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com
336-275-3009
Ed Regensburg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
Do you have the lights in 28v?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: Re: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
Hey Will...
Yes, You can get the LED position lights with landing lights that can be
aimed for landing or taxi, and soon I'll have 24 watt HID landing lights
that will integrate with the LED position lights if you like. These HID
lamps would be brighter than 100 watt halogen lamps and draw less amps.
However, you cannot use any Wig-Wag flasher units with HID lamps...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | eregensburg <eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com> |
More details on my RV6A for sale
It's with a great deal of regret I have to announce I am putting my RV6A
up for sale. Personal reasons are to blame (saving a marriage etc) N925RV
was built by Fred Stucklen and first flew in 1993. She is very well equiped
-full IFR certified with Garmin 300XL GPS, Dual VORS, ADF, Auto pilot,
electric trim and electric flaps and more. She is in the shop undergoing
her annual right now. I just returned from flying her to & from the AOPA
Expo in Philly. She flies like a dream and I hate to sell her. Going price
$75K.
For more info contact me directly at eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com
336-275-3009
RV-6A 1993 Full IFR
2020 TTAE, O-320-D1A, 849 STOH, Sensenich Metal Prop, KX-125, KY-97A, AT150
Xpdr,GX55 GPS, KR86 ADF, NAV 122A, KA134 Audio Panel, Shadin ?Mini-Flow?
with GPS interface, Century I AP, SP400 intercomm with stereo interface,
Electronics International RPM(R-1), Ultimate Scanner (US-8A), Oil Press/temp
(Opt-1), Volt/Amps (VA-1A-50), Electric trim/flaps, Impulse Mag/Electronic
Ignitions, 60 Amp Alternator, Alternate vacuum system,
Dual Brakes, Phlogiston Spar.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Idle Mixture |
> I'm still having a problem setting the idle mixture. No matter how much
we try we can't seem to get the 50 or so RPM increase when we go to idle
cutoff. We can't even get an increase at all.
>
> Starting form 1 1/2 turns out, we have been using 1/2 turns out to
increase idle rich. Can it be that there is a very narrow range on the
setting and we need to use 1/4 turns, 1/8 turns or less, instead of 1/2
turns?
>
> Any ideas or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Steve Glasgow
Steve,
I just reset mine after re-installing the carb. 3.5 turns is the magic
number for my plane, runs great.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
www.rv-8.com
EAA Technical Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave & Jill" <whiskeybird(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | RV9-A Q.B. Kit for Sale |
Winter Project. My complete RV-9A Quick Build Kit is for sale. Complete empennage,
wings, fuselage and finish kits are included. The kit has the slider canopy,
electric trim, landing lights and many other factory options. The owner
construction has barely started on the horizontal stabilizer. Price to be my
actual invoiced cost from Vans, less $1,000. Don't spend months on a waiting
list like I did. This kit is in Western Washington uncratred but available for
imediate delivery. Buyer must arrange transport. Terms available, but no delivery
until full payment is received. Please respond off list to whiskeybird(at)charter.net.
Serious inquiries only, please.
Dave Gilstrap
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
I have a 0-320 E2D with a mechanical fuel pump. I am in the process of connecting
the fuel lines to the fuel pump and am not sure which side of the pump is
the inlet.
From the cockpit looking forward, I believe the inlet is on the right side of the
pump.
Is this correct?
Thanks,
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok -6
N296JC res
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump inlet |
The inlet on the fuel pump for my 0-320 is on the right side if you're
facing forward, as you state.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pump inlet
>
> I have a 0-320 E2D with a mechanical fuel pump. I am in the process of
connecting the fuel lines to the fuel pump and am not sure which side of the
pump is the inlet.
>
> From the cockpit looking forward, I believe the inlet is on the right side
of the pump.
>
> Is this correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Jerry Calvert
> Edmond Ok -6
> N296JC res
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SoCAL RendezVous Warm-Up! |
RV Enthusiasts,
Our Nov. 1 "RendezVous Warm-Up" turned out to be a Great Success! Once more,
Mother Nature completely fooled the National Weather Service and delivered a
beautiful, mostly sunny, day. Much to our delight, the forecasted light rain
came early the night before and dampened the various fires near Los Angeles.
We woke up to mostly blue skies, some puffy cumulus clouds, light winds, and
super clear visibility!
Seven superb RVs (2 RV-6s, 2 RV-6As, 1 RV-7, 1 RV-8, and 1 RV-8A) attended
from as far north as Rosamond (Paul and Victoria Rosales) and as far south as
Corona (Chuck Miller). Despite the remaining fires, the nearby TFR, and some
weather south toward San Diego, it was nice day with good VFR access to Cable
Airport. Paul Rosales reported that the line of clouds over the mountains north
of Los Angeles proved to have many gaps. Paul and Victoria had no problem
getting through. At total of approximately 50 people attended our Warm-Up.
Of course, we were disappointed that the RendezVous delay to next Saturday,
Nov. 8, limited our Warm-Up attendance yesterday, but those who came enjoyed a
great time. If our Warm-Up is any indication, next Saturday's SoCAL RV
RendezVous promises to be OUTSTANDING!!! As of now, the long-range forecast for
next Saturday is a 40% chance of showers. This is good news! If yesterday is
any indication, the Upland weather will actually be mostly sunny with some puffy
cumulus clouds and super visibility with light winds! Stay Tuned!
Some photos of our RendezVous Warm-Up are loaded in our group's photo album
at http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCAL-RVlist/lst. Check out photos 25
to 31. Note that photos 29 to 31 were taken as Gary Sobek, Gary Hart, and
Paul Rosales treated us to some beautiful formation flying! Ultimately, the best
parts of the "Warm-Up" were the terrific "RVers" attending. Flyers,
builders, friends, and family all had a great time! We're all looking forward
to the
"Big" SoCAL RV RendezVous next Saturday, Nov. 8!
Best Regards,
Bill Palmer
RendezVous Marketing and Communications Officer
RV-8A QB In-Progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
Ed,
This link from a Grumman mechanic describes a procedure for
setting idle that will work at different altitudes. It was originally
written for a O-360, but I imagine it would be identical for an O-320....
http://www.aucountry.com/TeamGrumman/Technical/Engine_Idle.html
gil in Tucson ... DA of 4770 to-day (75F)
>
>1/2 turn is lot. Try using 1/8 to get into the ballpark, then use less than
>that to fine tune. The actual RPM drop you want depends on your field
>elevation. If you're at or near sea level, you don't need more than 25. I
>operate from an area around 2400 agl, and I find that a 30rpm drop works
>great. Even when I go to sea level I still get around 20.
>
>If you live in Denver you may want more of a drop so you aren't too lean at
>low elevations. It won't hurt anything, but it may sputter a little from
>being to lean. As far as idle mixture goes, it's better to be too lean than
>too rich. Those plugs foul real easily. In addition to a leanish idle
>mixture I always lean aggressively on the ground.
>
>Ed Bundy
>RV6A 600+ hours
>
>
> >I'm still having a problem setting the idle mixture. No matter
> >how much we try we can't seem to get the 50 or so RPM increase
> >when we go to idle cutoff. We can't even get an increase at all.
> >
> >Starting form 1 1/2 turns out, we have been using 1/2 turns out to
> >increase idle rich. Can it be that there is a very narrow range
> >on the setting and we need to use 1/4 turns, 1/8 turns or less,
> >instead of 1/2 turns?
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | canopy screws--torque and locktite |
Thanks to those who answered my previous canopy question one more thing though----I'm
unsure about 1) the torque on the screws attaching the plexiglass to the
rollbar causing undue stress against the plexiglass and also 2)about using
threadlock so the screws don't back out. I've heard stories of crazing of plex
with some locking agent but a vendor at Oshkosh handed me a sample (which I
misplaced) of a threadlocking agent "guaranteed" not to craze plexiglass. Anyone
know of a good thread lock that won't harm the plex?
Dave Ford
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy screws--torque and locktite |
Dave,
A little touch of clear RTV on the threads should do the trick and
be Plexiglas safe...
gil in Tucson
>
>Thanks to those who answered my previous canopy question one more thing
>though----I'm unsure about 1) the torque on the screws attaching the
>plexiglass to the rollbar causing undue stress against the plexiglass and
>also 2)about using threadlock so the screws don't back out. I've heard
>stories of crazing of plex with some locking agent but a vendor at Oshkosh
>handed me a sample (which I misplaced) of a threadlocking agent
>"guaranteed" not to craze plexiglass. Anyone know of a good thread lock
>that won't harm the plex?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6 finishing
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: canopy screws--torque and locktite |
The one I'm going to use (wish I could report back on years of good service,
but I'm not there yet...) is Vibra-Tite from ND Industries. It's a brush-on
nylock material...just brush it onto your canopy screws, let it dry, and
you've got a homemade nylock patch on your screws. It's not reactive with
acrylic (it's acrylic itself, I believe), and since the drying process
happens nowhere near the acrylic it's not even a risk. Well, at least
that's my understanding of this gunk.
http://www.ndindustries.com/Indexed/pr/vibra_aircraft.asp
I got it from McMaster Carr...go to http://www.mcmaster.com and search for
"vibra-tite" and when the catalog page comes up, it's toward the bottom.
Very expensive at $14.68 for a 1oz bottle, but hey, the canopy's more
expensive! 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: canopy screws--torque and locktite
>
> Thanks to those who answered my previous canopy question one more thing
though----I'm unsure about 1) the torque on the screws attaching the
plexiglass to the rollbar causing undue stress against the plexiglass and
also 2)about using threadlock so the screws don't back out. I've heard
stories of crazing of plex with some locking agent but a vendor at Oshkosh
handed me a sample (which I misplaced) of a threadlocking agent "guaranteed"
not to craze plexiglass. Anyone know of a good thread lock that won't harm
the plex?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6 finishing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com> |
> Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
>
> I've had some mud dubbers at work inside the engine cowl. Hopefully cowl
plugs will help.
>
You can pay lots of money and buy some fancy plugs; but, I'm cheap and found
a cheaper approach than the ones I bought for my Cheetah. I went to Walmart
and got two of their car washing sponges. They're sort of bow tie shaped
and cost about two dollars for the two. I then punched a couple of holes in
the center of each one and looped some ski rope through them. I made the
rope long enough that I could put it up and over the spinner so that they
could be slung out if I accidentally forgot to remove them before flight.
From experience, it works. :-) Granted, this is not a fancy way of doing
things; but, I've only had to buy two sets in four years. That's with my
airplane sitting outside all the time and facing into the sun. If you
hangar your airplane, they may last for years. I also cover the pitot with
short piece of arrow shaft that's blocked at the end to keep dobbers out of
there. I pull the carb heat fully to close the opening into the FAB to keep
out birds. All of this tends to work pretty well for an airplane that sits
on the ramp all year.
I know you're questioning my leaving my RV outside. It's simple. I could
afford a hangar; or, I could afford an airplane. Guess which I chose. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
Go to a toy store and buy a pair of matching nerf footballs. They also sell
miniature ones that fit perfectly into the carb air inlet. Pick up some
nylon rope at a hardware store and tie all three together so they can't be
accidentally left in on start-up.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flies great!
>From: "Gabe A Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Cowl Plugs
>Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:43:03 -0500
>
>
>Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
>
>I've had some mud dubbers at work inside the engine cowl. Hopefully cowl
>plugs will help.
>
>Thanks
>
>Gabe A Ferrer
>RV6 N2GX 83 hours
>South Florida
>Email: ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
>Cell: 561 758 8894
>Night Phone: 561 622 0960
>Fax: 561 622 0960
>
>
Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American Greetings!
Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
All,
Don't forget the fuel vents - used a couple of vinal fiber optic caps with a
string thru each end and a Remove before flight streamer in the middle of
the string.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl Plugs
>Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 07:41:59 -0500
>
>
> > Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
> >
> > I've had some mud dubbers at work inside the engine cowl. Hopefully cowl
>plugs will help.
> >
>
>You can pay lots of money and buy some fancy plugs; but, I'm cheap and
>found
>a cheaper approach than the ones I bought for my Cheetah. I went to
>Walmart
>and got two of their car washing sponges. They're sort of bow tie shaped
>and cost about two dollars for the two. I then punched a couple of holes
>in
>the center of each one and looped some ski rope through them. I made the
>rope long enough that I could put it up and over the spinner so that they
>could be slung out if I accidentally forgot to remove them before flight.
>From experience, it works. :-) Granted, this is not a fancy way of doing
>things; but, I've only had to buy two sets in four years. That's with my
>airplane sitting outside all the time and facing into the sun. If you
>hangar your airplane, they may last for years. I also cover the pitot with
>short piece of arrow shaft that's blocked at the end to keep dobbers out of
>there. I pull the carb heat fully to close the opening into the FAB to
>keep
>out birds. All of this tends to work pretty well for an airplane that sits
>on the ramp all year.
>
>I know you're questioning my leaving my RV outside. It's simple. I could
>afford a hangar; or, I could afford an airplane. Guess which I chose. :-)
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS
>EAA Tech Counselor.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | tailwheel links reply |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP I gave Van's Tech Support a copy of one of the e-mails about tailwheel
chains coming loose. Tom Green kindly replied (see below). Anyone have
some specific info for him?
David Carter
> Dave, no, but in all of the years, I have never seen it... it would be
> interesting to know of an individual and how it happened... Tom SNIP
My RV-4 did it. John's RV-6 did it too. And judging by the ones I've seen at Oshkosh
that are in various degrees of spreading out, or are wrapped with safety
wire, I don't think it's uncommon at all.
How does the link get spread out? Who knows? I can only SPECULATE (caps indicate
that I am SPECULATING here)that when those chains bounce around OCCASIONALLY
the link in question gets a little sideways. Then you hit just the right rough
spot and "TWANG"..... link spreads open or fails.
As Dennis Miller says during his rants..."but that's just my opinion, I could be
wrong."
Vince in Indiana
RV repeat offender since 1987
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
> For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize or
> Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
>
>
Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that will
give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing epoxy does
provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Selling my RV6A |
Ed:
You mean you can keep only one plane .... and you choose the Cessna ?????
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
161 hrs
> >It's with a great deal of regret I have to announce I am putting my RV6A
> up
> >for sale. Personal reasons are to blame (saving a marriage etc) N925RV was
> >built by Fred Stucklen (I am the 2nd owner) and first flew in 1993. She is
> >very well equiped - full IFR certified with Garmin 300XL GPS, Dual VORS,
> >ADF, Auto pilot, electric trim and electric flaps and more. She is in the
> >shop undergoing her annual right now. I just returned from flying her to &
> >from the AOPA Expo in Philly. She flies like a dream and I hate to sell
> her.
> >Going price $75K . For more info contact me directly at
> >eregensburg(at)triad.rr.com
> >336-275-3009
> >Ed Regensburg
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | A20driver(at)aol.com |
Have lost logbooks for my RV-3....Has anyone info on the procedure for
replacement???? JLB, NJ- RV.3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
>
>Do you have the lights in 28v?
The LED position lights operate from 10 volts to 30 volts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
What about the landing lights, HID and regular?
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Dube
Subject: RE: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
>
>Do you have the lights in 28v?
The LED position lights operate from 10 volts to 30 volts.
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
That is why I used 2-part epoxy DP40LF. Also, when you go to do the finish
painting, the DP48LF is a good primer for the PPG Concept paint. Great
stuff. And by the way, the DP40/48LF primer can be thinned to make it flow
out nice and smooth. Ask your PPG paint supplier about it. Great primer
but you need a air supply to protect yourself or work outside where there is
plenty of fresh air. And it does not dry instantly like some other primers.
Painting in the fall is a good time due to bugs being less common with
outside painting. However, I suggest you setup an inside paint booth large
enough to do a detached wing and later the fuselage. That is the best way
to go when you think about it seriously IMO.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit and painting things Viper Race Yellow over DP48LP primer
----- Original Message -----
From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
>
> In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
>
>
> > For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize or
> > Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
> >
> >
>
> Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that will
> give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing
epoxy does
> provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
> Dale Ensing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
List:
I have the following for sale:
RC Allen Electric Attitude Indicator with 8 degree tilt
14V , unlighted
RC Allen Electric DG
14V , unlighted
These instruments list for $1895 each. They are still in my plane and are
working perfectly. Make an offer. I will be posting to Ebay this week. I am
switching to Dynon. I have been flying these instruments one year.
Len Leggette RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting |
The strobe power supply will operate from 10 to 30 VDC as well...
The halogen and HID lamps I currently sell operate up to 15 VDC...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Info on the talked about "LED" lighting
>
>Do you have the lights in 28v?
The LED position lights operate from 10 volts to 30 volts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost log books |
Pbviously you need new logboos. You will need to reconstruct, to the best
of your knowledge, the times for everything. Then you will need to make an
entry to the effect that the prior leogbooks were lost. Then a new
condition inspection will need to be done unless you still have a copy of
the inspection checklist you used and it is dated. Then you will need to
get the transponder and encoder checks redone. I think that is about it.
Mike Robertson
>From: A20driver(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Lost log books
>Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2003 10:15:02 EST
>
>
>Have lost logbooks for my RV-3....Has anyone info on the procedure for
>replacement???? JLB, NJ- RV.3
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Microair T2000 Transponder problems |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
A friend of mine, Alan Kritzman, has had problems with his Microair T2000 tranponder
installed in his RV-8, and since I have the same unit but am not flying
yet, I'm posting this to ask if anyone else has had the same trouble.
The symptoms are very repeatable: whenever taking off out of a controlled field
with radar service, the controllers always say they are not picking up the transponder.
After the aircraft is about 5 miles from the airport, the power is
cycled using the transponders on/off button and then the tower picks up the signal
normally. If the flight originates from a nearby uncontrolled field, the
controllers pick the the transponder normally when approaching the towered airport
without having to cycle power on the unit. The coax has been replaced
and the antenna replaced and moved in attempts to fix the problem. Then Alan
took his transponder out and sent it back to Microair in Australia for repairs,
and while it was gone, he installed my identical transponder in his airplane
with the same problem. A few days ago he got a brand new and different unit
back from Microair and it too exhibits the same problem.
Anybody else flying out of Class C or other facility with radar that has experienced
this problem? Or, any idea what could cause it in terms of the installation
as opposed to the transponder itself?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip |
I did not wire the fuel pump through my Infinity Aerospace grip, but did
wire the flaps through it. For this arrangement, I used a relay to protect
the small switch (and wires) in the grip. I believe the current draw of a
high pressure fuel pump would require a similar arrangement. When I wired
my grip, I spoke with JD (at Infinity Aerospace) and received good advice
from him - you may wish to do the same.
Good luck,
Dean
RV-4, 160 hrs
Worcester, MA
>From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip
>Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 11:22:24 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>All-
>
>I am thinking of taking advantage of all those
>switches in the Infinity Aerospace grip.
>
>Has anyone run a high pressure fuel pump and the
>lights through the grip?
>
>The wires look like 20/22 gauge wire - did you put a
>relay in between the switch and the rest of the
>circuit (fuse/circuit breaker etc.)?
>
>Thanks
>Dag
>
>====
>*****************
>Dag Adamson
>617 513 1182
>Cambridge, MA
>Grand Junction, CO
>*****************
>
>__________________________________
>
>
Surf and talk on the phone at the same time with broadband Internet access.
Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month (depending on the local service
providers in your area). https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
At 150hrs, I found my plate was severely cracked. The plate in my -4 was
the anodized version supplied with the fuel injection system purchased from
Airflow Performance. I spoke with Don at Airflow Performance about the
failure. He told me it was the first he had heard of this part failing and
asked me to send him the plate (for which he sent me a new one) for
analysis. I have not since spoken with Don, but I may give him a call to
let him know many others have experienced similar failures.
I believe failure is caused by vibrations due to relative motion between the
cowl and the engine. I have a relatively "stiff" connection between the FAB
and the cowl and am concerned it may crack again. I don't believe making
the plate stiffer will solve the problem. The movement of the engine
(especially during starting/stopping) will not be in any way diminished by
stiffening the FAB plate. If we assume the magnitude of the deflection to
remain constant, either the (stiffened) plate will fail again, or the plate
will transfer this larger load to a more expensive structure (cowl?), or
both.
Regards,
Dean
RV-4
Worcester, MA
>From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Cracked FAB mounting plate
>Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2003 22:56:22 -0600
>
>
>During an oil change today, I noticed a bit more compliance when I moved
>the forward end of the FAB up and down. Upon further inspection, I
>found that the elliptical plate which mounts to the carb (or in my case,
>the fuel servo) had cracked. The aft two mounting bolts were
>effectively not doing anything anymore, since the cracks isolated that
>area from the remainder.
>
>I actually had an extra one of these plates, as one came with the FAB
>kit from Van's, while another one came with the Airflow Performance
>system. Of course, I carved the extra one up for some other purpose
>long ago. Probably made a bracket for something or another from it.
>
>One lesson here is that it pays to inspect things under the cowl at
>every oil change.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair T2000 Transponder problems |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
11/03/2003 01:33:23 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/03/2003 01:33:23 PM
The antenna is probably being blanked by the airframe when flying away
from the controlled field. Is your friend cycleing the power after
leveling off after 5 miles then asking if they can see him? If so, have
him level off and not cycle the power and see if they can see him.
This theory makes sense approaching the controlled field from the
uncontrolled since the antenna will not be blanked.
Scott
czechsix(at)juno.com
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
11/03/2003 12:15 PM
Please respond to rv-list
To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Microair T2000 Transponder problems
Guys,
A friend of mine, Alan Kritzman, has had problems with his Microair T2000
tranponder installed in his RV-8, and since I have the same unit but am
not flying yet, I'm posting this to ask if anyone else has had the same
trouble.
The symptoms are very repeatable: whenever taking off out of a controlled
field with radar service, the controllers always say they are not picking
up the transponder. After the aircraft is about 5 miles from the airport,
the power is cycled using the transponders on/off button and then the
tower picks up the signal normally. If the flight originates from a
nearby uncontrolled field, the controllers pick the the transponder
normally when approaching the towered airport without having to cycle
power on the unit. The coax has been replaced and the antenna replaced
and moved in attempts to fix the problem. Then Alan took his transponder
out and sent it back to Microair in Australia for repairs, and while it
was gone, he installed my identical transponder in his airplane with the
same problem. A few days ago he got a brand new and different unit back
from Microair and it too exhibits the same problem.
Anybody else flying out of Class C or other facility with radar that has
experienced this problem? Or, any idea what could cause it in terms of
the installation as opposed to the transponder itself?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
Pat,
Great minds think alike. I've got a small Nerf football stuffed into
my intake and a rope (with a red "Remove Before Flight" flag) attached to my
prop. If you forget to remove it, the first crank tosses the football & a
flag on the play.
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Perry <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl Plugs
>
> Go to a toy store and buy a pair of matching nerf footballs. They also
sell
> miniature ones that fit perfectly into the carb air inlet. Pick up some
> nylon rope at a hardware store and tie all three together so they can't be
> accidentally left in on start-up.
>
>
> Pat Perry
> Dallas, PA
> RV-4 N154PK Flies great!
>
>
> >From: "Gabe A Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: Cowl Plugs
> >Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 09:43:03 -0500
> >
> >
> >Anyone know where I could buy cowl plugs for an RV6?
> >
> >I've had some mud dubbers at work inside the engine cowl. Hopefully cowl
> >plugs will help.
> >
> >Thanks
> >
> >Gabe A Ferrer
> >RV6 N2GX 83 hours
> >South Florida
> >Email: ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
> >Cell: 561 758 8894
> >Night Phone: 561 622 0960
> >Fax: 561 622 0960
> >
> >
>
> Cheer a special someone with a fun Halloween eCard from American
Greetings!
> Go to http://www.msn.americangreetings.com/index_msn.pd?source=msne134
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | EIS on during start |
Ok, the question seems to be the subject of much speculation
based upon the original post, which was a mis-wire or
connection issue, not a powerup issue at all.
The Grand Rapids EIS is very happy being on during start. I
have mine on the main electrical bus and it comes on with the
master. Upon start it dims just a bit (it's good down to 5V) and
suffers no ill effects. I instantly have a flashing zero oil
pressure reading and then slowly watch it rise until it's over
the min threshold and the screen returns to my default startup
page.
I am very happy with the company and the product!
- Andy Karmy
RV9a Seattle WA
145hrs TT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair T2000 Transponder problems |
Scott,
I don't think it is a blanking issue, I have departed on runway 09 and circuled
to the west with the same result as climbing straight out. ATC does not get
anything until I cycle power. I have also relocated the antenna, now there is
nothing within 24 inches of the transponder antenna.
Thanks
Alan Kritzman
In a message dated 12/2/2003 12:39:21 PM Eastern Standard Time, Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com
writes:
>
>The antenna is probably being blanked by the airframe when flying away
>from the controlled field. Is your friend cycleing the power after
>leveling off after 5 miles then asking if they can see him? If so, have
>him level off and not cycle the power and see if they can see him.
>
>This theory makes sense approaching the controlled field from the
>uncontrolled since the antenna will not be blanked.
>
>Scott
>
>
>czechsix(at)juno.com
>Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>11/03/2003 12:15 PM
>Please respond to rv-list
>
>
> To: aeroelectric-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
> cc:
> Subject: RV-List: Microair T2000 Transponder problems
>
>
>Guys,
>
>A friend of mine, Alan Kritzman, has had problems with his Microair T2000
>tranponder installed in his RV-8, and since I have the same unit but am
>not flying yet, I'm posting this to ask if anyone else has had the same
>trouble.
>
>The symptoms are very repeatable: whenever taking off out of a controlled
>field with radar service, the controllers always say they are not picking
>up the transponder. After the aircraft is about 5 miles from the airport,
>the power is cycled using the transponders on/off button and then the
>tower picks up the signal normally. If the flight originates from a
>nearby uncontrolled field, the controllers pick the the transponder
>normally when approaching the towered airport without having to cycle
>power on the unit. The coax has been replaced and the antenna replaced
>and moved in attempts to fix the problem. Then Alan took his transponder
>out and sent it back to Microair in Australia for repairs, and while it
>was gone, he installed my identical transponder in his airplane with the
>same problem. A few days ago he got a brand new and different unit back
>from Microair and it too exhibits the same problem.
>
>Anybody else flying out of Class C or other facility with radar that has
>experienced this problem? Or, any idea what could cause it in terms of
>the installation as opposed to the transponder itself?
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D finishing...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Sam,
Sorry it took me so long to reply but I wanted to check on something to amek
sure I was giving you the right info.
There is NO requirement to have or use a VOR for IFR enroute. The reg says
that you will have navigation equipment compatible with the ground
facilities to be used. If you don't use any ground facilities then there is
no need for ground based navigational equipment. An enroute GPS may be the
only thing you use for IFR enroute.
Now if you do use a VOR for enroute navigation then the GPS can be of any
make/model that you want.
Mike Robertson
>From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 17:05:38 -0600
>
>
>Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> >
> > But practically speaking, this means the IFR GPS must be TSO'd.
> >
> > If the box was capable of meeting the requirements of the TSO, the
> > manufacturer would sell it as TSO'd so he had access to the type
> > certificated aircraft market. And I have difficulty believing a
> > hobbyist will cobble together a homebuilt GPS that meets all the TSO
> > requirements.
> >
> > Kevin Horton
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Kevin,
> >>
> >>What you say is true. GPS must MEET the requirements of the TSO for IFR
>use
> >>but do not have to BE TSO'd.
> >>
> >>Mike
> >>
>
>
>We're talking about GPS for approaches, not enroute, right? And doesn't
>the enroute GPS have to be a "supplement" (FAA Advisory Circular 20-138)
>to onboard navigational equipment that is ground based (VOR)? And since
>the primary enroute navigation is ground based, the enroute GPS doesn't
>have to meet the requirements of a TSO, right?
>
>In other words, as I understand it, a handheld GPS is fine for enroute
>IFR ops as long as an operational VOR receiver (handheld???) is in the
>plane. The TSO-equivalent GPS is required for approaches.
>
>We are not discussing what is prudent, only what is literally required
>by the FARs.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
Never get a busy signal because you are always connected with high-speed
Internet access. Click here to comparison-shop providers.
https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (more questions) |
See answers enbedded below.
Mike Robertson
>From: Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (more questions)
>Date: Sat, 01 Nov 2003 18:38:33 -0600
>
>
>
>This begs questions of much more practical significance that
>constructing my own GPS or transponder.
>
>Can I, as the builder, legally demonstrate compliance of the
>*installation* of an IFR GPS in my plane?
YES
>
>Can I, as the builder, legally calibrate the static system/altimeter
>(manometers are relatively easy to construct) & verify that the mode C
>is correctly reporting altitude?
Look at CFR 91.411(b) and 413(c) for your answers here. If you are not an
airframe mechanic then you, as the builder, may not conduct the encoder and
transponder checks. If you have an airfrasme mechanics certificate then you
can do the encoder checks but not the tranponder. A repair station can do
the encoder and must do the tranponder.
>
>Next, addressing the issue of 'navigational equipment appropriate to
>the ground facilities to be used'. Aren't there now (or there soon will
>be) GPS approaches to airports that have no other instrument approach?
>If that is correct, do you need ADF or VOR to fly an approach there? If
>not, then part B follows: If you are flying a GPS approach into an
>airport that has both GPS & other approaches, you aren't using 'ground
>facilities'. Do you still need ADF and/or VOR to fly that approach?
>
Here you may want to get into the AIMS. You can use an IFR approved enroute
GPS NOW and not have any ground based nav equipment. You can use approach
approved GPS for non-precision GPS approaches now and can use it to identify
ADF and intersection fixes now. The only caviat is that for precision
approaches that require DME you must still have a DME receiver on board.
>Thanks,
>
>Charlie
>
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account has exceeded
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
John,
Please don't take this a rude but it means exactly what it says. Once the
FAA buys off your plane, everything on it, for that aircraft ONLY, is
approved. For example, what if you had Hooker Harness seatbelts. They are
not an approved seatbelt. They are definitely better that most of the
approved belts out there IMHO. But once the DAR signs off the inspection
and issues the airworthiness certificate the belts become "approved" for use
on that aircraft. The same goes for lights.
As far as the second point, the inspector/DAR issues Operating Limitations
at the time of certification. He has the option of limiting the aircraft to
Day VFR use only, or of giving the authorization for night and/or IFR
operation. You will notice that I did not say anything about IFR
certification as there is none needed. He just has to note that the
aircraft is equipped for more than Day VFR and issue the appropriate
operating limitation. The pilot is responsible to ensure the aircraft is
properly equipped for night and/or IFR operations in accordance with the
requirements of CFR 91.205.
Mike Robertson
>From: "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2003 10:37:48 -0800
>
>
>On Wed Oct 29 12:01:27 2003, Mike Robertson wrote :
> >[ ... snip ... ]
>
> >For amateur built aircraft, equipment installed on
> >the aircraft at certification is considered FAA approved.
>
>Mike,
>
>I have not seen this statement before. Where does it come from? What does
>it
>really mean?
>
>It seems like the operating limitations put the burden on the operator for
>anything beyond day / vfr. So why should the DAR get concerned about ifr
>equipment, homemade or otherwise.
>
>We are not asking the DAR for ifr certification, so why would the subject
>even come up?
>
>Thanks,
>
>jb
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair T2000 Transponder problems |
Could it possibly be the blind encoder is not warmed up and not transmitting
data to the xpndr? My blind encoder takes a number of minutes before it will
start sending data to the xpndr, and thus the xpndr will not report an
altitude. In my case the transponder is a Garmin GTX327 and the blind
encoder is an ACK A-30.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
In a message dated 11/2/03 4:07:43 PM Eastern Standard Time,
chrisjgood(at)lycos.com writes:
> . I made a new plate from .062 aluminimum & added a steel brace dropping
> down from one of the front crank case bolts to the front bolt attaching the
> air box to the plate. This stiffens it up dramatically, avoiding motion
> transmitted fom the flexible air intake coupling. I'm sorry I can't remember
which
> lister suggested this method, but it was not my idea.
Hi Chris,
I think it was Randall Henderson. He has a picture of his on his web page.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Mike Robertson wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> Sorry it took me so long to reply but I wanted to check on something to amek
> sure I was giving you the right info.
>
> There is NO requirement to have or use a VOR for IFR enroute. The reg says
> that you will have navigation equipment compatible with the ground
> facilities to be used. If you don't use any ground facilities then there is
> no need for ground based navigational equipment. An enroute GPS may be the
> only thing you use for IFR enroute.
>
> Now if you do use a VOR for enroute navigation then the GPS can be of any
> make/model that you want.
>
> Mike Robertson
Thanks for the follow up, Mike. Here is the quote from Advisory Circular
138-20 that the EAA is using in their opinion about GPS in IFR ops:
Paragraph 4, Background, subparagraph g:
(3) IFR Navigation Equipment. GPS equipment for IFR
navigation is for use as a supplemental navigation system. The
installation of GPS equipment does not affect the requirement for
a primary means of navigation appropriate to the route intended
to be flown. Within the contiguous United States, Alaska,
Hawaii, and surrounding coastal waters, this requirement can be
met with an operational, independent VOR receiver. Additional
navigation equipment redundancy may be required for operation in
oceanic and remote airspace.
Are experimental aircraft subject to the requirements of the AC20-138?
Or, is the AC *only* advisory, not regulatory, in scope? Or, has this AC
been superseded by something newer?
Thanks in advance for your reply,
Sam Buchanan
==============
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
>
> At 150hrs, I found my plate was severely cracked. The plate
> in my -4 was
> the anodized version supplied with the fuel injection system
> purchased from
> Airflow Performance. I spoke with Don at Airflow Performance
> about the
> failure. He told me it was the first he had heard of this
> part failing and
> asked me to send him the plate (for which he sent me a new one) for
> analysis. I have not since spoken with Don, but I may give
> him a call to
> let him know many others have experienced similar failures.
>
> I believe failure is caused by vibrations due to relative
> motion between the
> cowl and the engine. I have a relatively "stiff" connection
> between the FAB
> and the cowl and am concerned it may crack again. I don't
> believe making
> the plate stiffer will solve the problem. The movement of the engine
> (especially during starting/stopping) will not be in any way
> diminished by
> stiffening the FAB plate. If we assume the magnitude of the
> deflection to
> remain constant, either the (stiffened) plate will fail
> again, or the plate
> will transfer this larger load to a more expensive structure
> (cowl?), or
> both.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dean
> RV-4
> Worcester, MA
Dean,
I agree with everything you've said. I don't know if you caught my
message about the Airflow Performance mounting ring having a very sharp
edge which contacts the mounting plate in question. I suspect that
radiusing that will help a lot.
IMPORTANT: Everyone needs to understand that if the plate cracks enough,
the engine could swallow chunks of it!
A better solution would be a better system to interface the FAB snout to
the cowl. If one uses the air seal rubberized fabric, it is almost
impossible to get any real flexibility. I would think some sort of
bellows like affair might be better. It seems the problem is the lack
of fore/aft clearance which can be had in this area. When I initially
fabricated my FAB, I cut the front end as short as I could while still
retaining an alternate air door. Even with it being short, there still
isn't a lot of distance from the cowl to it.
I have often wondered if we had a video camera under the cowl, would we
decide not to fly these things....
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
bert murillo wrote:
>
>Hi:
>
> I am ready to install wings, question is I found that
>the Vent line connection to the tank, is very difficult,
>first i put the line to far aft, and there is very
>little space, between connection from tank, which by
>the way faces to the leading edge with an 90o,fitting,
>I wish they would put a straight connection,, so
> I am thinking of a flexible line,, any comments
>as to what kind? Any other suggestions...
>
>Appreciate your input...
>
>Bert
>
>rv6a
>
>on wings
>
>
>
I thought it was going to be hard untill I got my spring bender and went
at it. It wasn't bad at all!
http://members.hopkinsville.net/bhester/FuseAssyPg2.htm
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <abstraction(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
Followup on what I wrote a while ago:
> I have been trying to rivet my VS ribs to the forward spar for a while now.
> (RV-9, but same VS in 7 and 8) After some learning curve on the rivet gun,
> my only remaining problem is that a gap forms between the rib and spar as I
> drive the rivet.
Gus at Van's told me that gaps "are not good" and to drill out and clamp
better, or use pop rivets if I cannot eliminate the gap. I've tried clamping
everywhere possible but still have gaps forming. Now I find this old post from
Scott at Vans:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=46098614?KEYS=spar_&_rib_&_gap?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=108?SERIAL=18500310051?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
Which seems to say that small gaps are ok (on the HS) if the parts are tight
before riveting, which they have been. My gaps are small too (.01 - .02"?
Can't find a feeler gauge)
After lots of experimenting one of the causes that seems impossible to
eliminate here is that you cannot clamp both sides of the flange surrounding
some of the rivets. This seems to allow enough slack to allow the flange to
lift up as the shop head is formed.
After at least 10 drilled rivets, 2 damaged holes (about to receive AD5
rivets), several nicks on my spar, countless test strips to try to identify the
problem, and a *huge* delay, I guess I will push ahead gaps and all. Anyone
want to argue for the pop rivet approach? I wish I knew how common this
problem is because I sure don't see anyone else using pop rivets here...did
anyone else hold their spar up to the light and not see a gap?
Just barely hanging on,
Paul
__________________________________
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip |
Be careful running your flaps off a stick-mounted switch. On the RV-4 I bought,
the flaps switch was on the top of the stick. On a recent flight I inadvertently
deployed the flaps to 30% and flew around for half an hour or so at 40 KIAS
above flap speed. Ow. Fortunately, the guys at Van's say this isn't a problem
at only 30% flaps.
My point is, be cautious about putting every control on the stick grip. Some
control are not MEANT to be easy to get to.
Pedro
rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com wrote:
Yes, you need to use relays. I run my flaps through the grip.
My Infinity grip set up...
PTT---Trigger
Alieron/elevator trim hat
Flaps down and up with limit switch for automatic shut off
Comm1 flip/flp and playback for my SL15
TruTrack Control Wheel Autopilot Switch
Previous/next screens on my GRT engine monitor
Ross Mickey
RV6A N9PT
Inspection on Thursday
-----Original Message-----
From: dag adamson
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Pump and Lights - Inifinity Aerospace grip
All-
I am thinking of taking advantage of all those
switches in the Infinity Aerospace grip.
Has anyone run a high pressure fuel pump and the
lights through the grip?
The wires look like 20/22 gauge wire - did you put a
relay in between the switch and the rest of the
circuit (fuse/circuit breaker etc.)?
Dag
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Cracked FAB mounting plate |
Another suggestion would be to eliminate the FAB altogether in lieu of a "tunnel
ram". I use unfiltered ram air above 1000' AGL via an aluminum tube I fabricated
that attaches to the base of the carb and fits flush against the lip of
the scoop inlet. I have a flapper valve with a 2" duct behind it 4" down the tube.
With the flapper closed, inlet air is ducted through a remote K&N filter.
On the ground I close the valve and open it after safely airborne. I gain about
50 RPM and 1"MP at sea level and almost 2" at 5000'. There is plenty of room
in the "scoop" for the tunnel and I have never had a problem in 1100 hours.
Rob Ray
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> At 150hrs, I found my plate was severely cracked. The plate
> in my -4 was
> the anodized version supplied with the fuel injection system
> purchased from
> Airflow Performance. I spoke with Don at Airflow Performance
> about the
> failure. He told me it was the first he had heard of this
> part failing and
> asked me to send him the plate (for which he sent me a new one) for
> analysis. I have not since spoken with Don, but I may give
> him a call to
> let him know many others have experienced similar failures.
>
> I believe failure is caused by vibrations due to relative
> motion between the
> cowl and the engine. I have a relatively "stiff" connection
> between the FAB
> and the cowl and am concerned it may crack again. I don't
> believe making
> the plate stiffer will solve the problem. The movement of the engine
> (especially during starting/stopping) will not be in any way
> diminished by
> stiffening the FAB plate. If we assume the magnitude of the
> deflection to
> remain constant, either the (stiffened) plate will fail
> again, or the plate
> will transfer this larger load to a more expensive structure
> (cowl?), or
> both.
>
> Regards,
>
> Dean
> RV-4
> Worcester, MA
Dean,
I agree with everything you've said. I don't know if you caught my
message about the Airflow Performance mounting ring having a very sharp
edge which contacts the mounting plate in question. I suspect that
radiusing that will help a lot.
IMPORTANT: Everyone needs to understand that if the plate cracks enough,
the engine could swallow chunks of it!
A better solution would be a better system to interface the FAB snout to
the cowl. If one uses the air seal rubberized fabric, it is almost
impossible to get any real flexibility. I would think some sort of
bellows like affair might be better. It seems the problem is the lack
of fore/aft clearance which can be had in this area. When I initially
fabricated my FAB, I cut the front end as short as I could while still
retaining an alternate air door. Even with it being short, there still
isn't a lot of distance from the cowl to it.
I have often wondered if we had a video camera under the cowl, would we
decide not to fly these things....
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hollandm" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Gascolator extensions |
I'm considering adding a short extension tube to the bottom of the gascolator to
so that the quick drain will end-up flush with the canopy bottom. Is there
any problem with this? My concern is with possible movement of the canopy and
how much clearance to allow, choice of material for the tube and fittings.
Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Required Indicators for KNS-80 RNAV |
All,
Does anybody know if a KI-209 VOR/ILS CDI indicator can be used with a Collins
KNS-80 RNAV? Normally, the KNS-80 uses a KI-206 (as the KX-155 normally uses
the KI-209 or KI-208). I believe the difference is that the KI-206 has no internal
resolver (relying instead on the KNS-80's internal resolver), while the
KI-209 does. That seem to imply that you could hook up the KNS-80 to the KI-209
and just use one of the resolvers, leaving the other disconnected. Maybe.
Anybody know?
Pedro
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
Hello Paul,
It's really hard to be sure but from your description it sounds like you
could be guilty of being too fussy.
Now keep in mind that no other builder before you fell pray to such a
malady. Shame on you! tsk tsk.(;-}!
If the you put he framework inside the skin and it all clekos together with
good hole alignment chances are you will be good to go.
You might consider leaving it and moving on for a while. With the added
wisdom that comes from making and fixing mistreakes elsewhere you can come
back to it troubleshoot and flash it together later, no problem.
Happy building,
Jim (I never make mistreaks) Jewell in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <abstraction(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: VS rib to spar gap
>
> Followup on what I wrote a while ago:
>
> > I have been trying to rivet my VS ribs to the forward spar for a while
now.
> > (RV-9, but same VS in 7 and 8) After some learning curve on the rivet
gun,
> > my only remaining problem is that a gap forms between the rib and spar
as I
> > drive the rivet.
>
> Gus at Van's told me that gaps "are not good" and to drill out and clamp
> better, or use pop rivets if I cannot eliminate the gap. I've tried
clamping
> everywhere possible but still have gaps forming. Now I find this old post
from
> Scott at Vans:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=46098614?KEYS=spar_&_rib_&_gap?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=108?SERIAL=18500310051?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
>
> Which seems to say that small gaps are ok (on the HS) if the parts are
tight
> before riveting, which they have been. My gaps are small too (.01 - .02"?
> Can't find a feeler gauge)
>
> After lots of experimenting one of the causes that seems impossible to
> eliminate here is that you cannot clamp both sides of the flange
surrounding
> some of the rivets. This seems to allow enough slack to allow the flange
to
> lift up as the shop head is formed.
>
> After at least 10 drilled rivets, 2 damaged holes (about to receive AD5
> rivets), several nicks on my spar, countless test strips to try to
identify the
> problem, and a *huge* delay, I guess I will push ahead gaps and all.
Anyone
> want to argue for the pop rivet approach? I wish I knew how common this
> problem is because I sure don't see anyone else using pop rivets
here...did
> anyone else hold their spar up to the light and not see a gap?
>
> Just barely hanging on,
> Paul
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked FAB mounting plate |
Hi Rob,
hows about some pictures sometime?
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "rob ray" <smokyray(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cracked FAB mounting plate
>
> Another suggestion would be to eliminate the FAB altogether in lieu of a
"tunnel ram". I use unfiltered ram air above 1000' AGL via an aluminum tube
I fabricated that attaches to the base of the carb and fits flush against
the lip of the scoop inlet. I have a flapper valve with a 2" duct behind it
4" down the tube. With the flapper closed, inlet air is ducted through a
remote K&N filter. On the ground I close the valve and open it after safely
airborne. I gain about 50 RPM and 1"MP at sea level and almost 2" at 5000'.
There is plenty of room in the "scoop" for the tunnel and I have never had a
problem in 1100 hours.
>
> Rob Ray
>
>
> Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
> >
> > At 150hrs, I found my plate was severely cracked. The plate
> > in my -4 was
> > the anodized version supplied with the fuel injection system
> > purchased from
> > Airflow Performance. I spoke with Don at Airflow Performance
> > about the
> > failure. He told me it was the first he had heard of this
> > part failing and
> > asked me to send him the plate (for which he sent me a new one) for
> > analysis. I have not since spoken with Don, but I may give
> > him a call to
> > let him know many others have experienced similar failures.
> >
> > I believe failure is caused by vibrations due to relative
> > motion between the
> > cowl and the engine. I have a relatively "stiff" connection
> > between the FAB
> > and the cowl and am concerned it may crack again. I don't
> > believe making
> > the plate stiffer will solve the problem. The movement of the engine
> > (especially during starting/stopping) will not be in any way
> > diminished by
> > stiffening the FAB plate. If we assume the magnitude of the
> > deflection to
> > remain constant, either the (stiffened) plate will fail
> > again, or the plate
> > will transfer this larger load to a more expensive structure
> > (cowl?), or
> > both.
> >
> > Regards,
> >
> > Dean
> > RV-4
> > Worcester, MA
>
> Dean,
>
> I agree with everything you've said. I don't know if you caught my
> message about the Airflow Performance mounting ring having a very sharp
> edge which contacts the mounting plate in question. I suspect that
> radiusing that will help a lot.
>
> IMPORTANT: Everyone needs to understand that if the plate cracks enough,
> the engine could swallow chunks of it!
>
> A better solution would be a better system to interface the FAB snout to
> the cowl. If one uses the air seal rubberized fabric, it is almost
> impossible to get any real flexibility. I would think some sort of
> bellows like affair might be better. It seems the problem is the lack
> of fore/aft clearance which can be had in this area. When I initially
> fabricated my FAB, I cut the front end as short as I could while still
> retaining an alternate air door. Even with it being short, there still
> isn't a lot of distance from the cowl to it.
>
> I have often wondered if we had a video camera under the cowl, would we
> decide not to fly these things....
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator extensions |
I bet you really meant "cowl" and not "canopy"...
With that in mind, you really don't need much clearance. The cowl is mounted
to the airframe, and doesn't move very much, especially near the firewall.
Your gascolator is
mounted to the firewall too, so it won't move.
Therefore, you shouldn't need a whole lot of clearance.
A few things to consider...
1) That extension tube on the gascolator is going to add one more thing to
the cowl attach/detach process. It isn't a really, really, nasty process,
but it ain't easy to do either, especially without scratching something.
2) The under-cowl gascolator is an excellent heat sink. A wonderful way to
put your engine a little bit closer to vapor lock on a hot day. On my
airplane, this is very evident when I stop somewhere for 20 minutes on a hot
day.
3) I've never seen any water or trash in my gascolator. If I had it to do
over again, I'd strongly consider omitting this device and installing a fuel
filter with a large minimum particle size.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "hollandm" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: Gascolator extensions
>
> I'm considering adding a short extension tube to the bottom of the
gascolator to so that the quick drain will end-up flush with the canopy
bottom. Is there any problem with this? My concern is with possible
movement of the canopy and how much clearance to allow, choice of material
for the tube and fittings.
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Barry Bruns ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Barry Bruns
Subject: Wing jig
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/BBruns6831@aol.com.11.03.2003/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Oil cooler hose/fitting issues: RESOLVED |
A while back, there was some discussion about oil cooler hose/fitting
interference with the new Jihostroj (aka MT) governor bracket. To provide
some background... (if you don't care, jump straight to the photos:
http://www.rvproject.com/20031103.html)
Van's used to sell a McCauley prop governor standard with firewall forward
kits. The McCauley governor's cable bracket mounts to the aft face of the
governor itself and poses no problem when routing oil cooler
hoses...specifically the hose that sends oil from the engine to the cooler
(the fitting is roughly centered on the accessory case, right below and to
the right of the oil filter spin on adapter -- at least on my IO-360-A1B6).
Anyway...the firewall forward kit comes with the fittings and hoses required
to hook up the oil cooler. They recommend using a 45-degree fitting in the
accessory housing. That worked swimmingly with the McCauley governor &
bracket.
Some time ago, Van's started shipping the new Jihostroj governor as the
standard option in the firewall forward kit, and they include a governor
cable bracket with it. Problem is, the bracket mounts to the front mounting
flange of the governor, unlike the old McCauley setup. And this bracket is
directly in the way of the traditional & recommended oil cooler hose route.
45 or straight nipple, there's no way to make it work with a
*straight-ended* hose. And installing a 90-degree fitting is impractical,
because it requires the removal of the oil filter adapter just to get it on
(not impossible, just inconvenient and impractical)...even then, I'm not
sure if it would solve the problem (it would at least require a longer
hose).
So...recently somebody suggested installing a straight nipple and using a
hose with a 45-degree end. Apparently, swapping where the 45 is (on the
hose as opposed to the fitting) made enough difference that the system
worked without the hose interfering with the governor bracket.
Well, I tried it, and it didn't work for me. I ordered a new straight-to-45
hose and installed the straight nipple. The hose interfered slightly (but
isn't slightly too much? it is for me!) with the oil filter, and the hose
was pushing/possibly chafing on the governor bracket. Not good.
Long story short, I played around with different configurations, and I
finally came up with a setup that works 100%, no interference, no chafing,
no exceptions. It may sound ridiculously simple now, but it wasn't
intuitive to me until about an hour ago...use a 45-degree fitting *and* a
45-degree hose end!
I've taken some before/during/after photos, the most relevant being the
final setup: http://www.rvproject.com/20031103.html
My advice to Van's is to update the firewall forward kit, both the
plans/instructions and the hose (give it a 45 end), to accommodate the new
governor bracket. Otherwise, everybody with this configuration might bump
into this same issue.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair T2000 Transponder problems |
Thanks for all the comments on the transponder, below is the responce I received
from Microair. It looks like the problem is the brains are being scrambled
operating to close to the radar site.
Alan Kritzman
RV-8 N8EM 99.7 hours
We are sorry you are having trouble with your transponder. We have found a snag
with our transponder, which is due to overloading in the face of multiple radars.
In areas of high radar activity, the rear microprocessor goes into a dither
mode and wont answer to anything. We have developed a fix for this, which
we are presently flight testing with excellent results, however it will not
be available for several weeks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
I have a bit of problem really understanding your problem. But it sounds
like it could be what is needed is a shim could fill the gap and allow the
two parts to fit and be riveted tightly together. I believe my older plans
called for the possible use of a shim and I had to use it to get a real
tight fit.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit and Painting Viper Racer Yellow over DP48LP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <abstraction(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: VS rib to spar gap
>
> Followup on what I wrote a while ago:
>
> > I have been trying to rivet my VS ribs to the forward spar for a while
now.
> > (RV-9, but same VS in 7 and 8) After some learning curve on the rivet
gun,
> > my only remaining problem is that a gap forms between the rib and spar
as I
> > drive the rivet.
>
> Gus at Van's told me that gaps "are not good" and to drill out and clamp
> better, or use pop rivets if I cannot eliminate the gap. I've tried
clamping
> everywhere possible but still have gaps forming. Now I find this old post
from
> Scott at Vans:
>
>
http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=46098614?KEYS=spar_&_rib_&_gap?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=108?SERIAL=18500310051?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
>
> Which seems to say that small gaps are ok (on the HS) if the parts are
tight
> before riveting, which they have been. My gaps are small too (.01 - .02"?
> Can't find a feeler gauge)
>
> After lots of experimenting one of the causes that seems impossible to
> eliminate here is that you cannot clamp both sides of the flange
surrounding
> some of the rivets. This seems to allow enough slack to allow the flange
to
> lift up as the shop head is formed.
>
> After at least 10 drilled rivets, 2 damaged holes (about to receive AD5
> rivets), several nicks on my spar, countless test strips to try to
identify the
> problem, and a *huge* delay, I guess I will push ahead gaps and all.
Anyone
> want to argue for the pop rivet approach? I wish I knew how common this
> problem is because I sure don't see anyone else using pop rivets
here...did
> anyone else hold their spar up to the light and not see a gap?
>
> Just barely hanging on,
> Paul
>
>
> __________________________________
> http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
Hi All,
Does anybody know how I might contact Fred Kunkle. His last known
(rvator(at)earthlink.net) address bounces.
Thanks,
/\/elson
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Kunkel" <rvator(at)socal.rr.com> |
Hi Nelson,
You can contact us at info(at)clearairtools.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fred Kunkle
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> Does anybody know how I might contact Fred Kunkle. His last known
> (rvator(at)earthlink.net) address bounces.
>
> Thanks,
> /\/elson
>
> --
> ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Brown" <nightmare(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Electronic Ignition |
I know that a lot of the guys have installed electronic ignitions in their RV's.
Most that I have seen are the lightspeed. Has anyone determined which one is
the best?
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
>
>I just spoke to Gus at Van's about it and he agrees that insufficient
>clamping is the problem and would not leave any gap that you can
>see daylight through on this part. So I am going to try drilling out
>(again) and finding some way to put an extra clamp on there.
I suspect you are having trouble because you are using a rivet gun
instead of a squeezer. On the few rivets I had to hit with the rivet gun, I
found it was more difficult to close the gap.
I used a squeezer on nearly every rivet.
http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG ($100 on Ebay)
This foot-operated, 9 inch throat monster, along with a more
conventional CP-214C with a selection of yokes made it possible for me to
squeeze almost all the rivets on the tail.
I think when the rivet set strikes the rivet head against the
spar, the rib behind the spar bounces away, leaving a gap.
There are a few things you can try. 1)You can set the rivet gun to
a lower pressure and hit the rivet with a lot of small strokes instead of a
few big strokes. 2)You can use the flush rivet tool on the gun on the shop
head, and use a universal rivet set to buck the other side. (You drill a
3/16" hole in a chunk of steel to allow you to use sets to buck with.)
3)You can glue a rubber washer to your bucking bar to help brace the metal
around the rivet. The rubber washer should be tall enough to press against
the rib before the bar touches the rivet.
You can practice these techniques on scrap before trying them on
the tail itself.
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electronic Ignition |
>
>
>I know that a lot of the guys have installed electronic ignitions in their
>RV's. Most that I have seen are the lightspeed. Has anyone determined which
>one is the best?
>
>Paul
They're ALL great. There should be ample information in the rv-list
archives. Lightspeed is, indeed, quite poplular, with Jeff Rose's system
right on par with it and the LASAR from Unison from an FAA certified
standpoint. You can't go wrong with any of these.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
O-360/Lightspeed.
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Sam,
You asked from a regulatory standpoint what was allowed/required. I guess
the answer was somewhat misleading. Per AC 20-138, dated 5/94, and the
current AIMS you must have the appropriate ground based nav equipment on
board the aircraft but you don't have to use it provided the installed GPS
is IFR approved. Obviously if you only have an enroute or terminal IFR GPS
then you would need the proper/appropriate equipment for the approach.
Does that clear it up??
Mike Robertson
>From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:05:04 -0600
>
>
>Mike Robertson wrote:
> >
> > Sam,
> >
> > Sorry it took me so long to reply but I wanted to check on something to
>amek
> > sure I was giving you the right info.
> >
> > There is NO requirement to have or use a VOR for IFR enroute. The reg
>says
> > that you will have navigation equipment compatible with the ground
> > facilities to be used. If you don't use any ground facilities then
>there is
> > no need for ground based navigational equipment. An enroute GPS may be
>the
> > only thing you use for IFR enroute.
> >
> > Now if you do use a VOR for enroute navigation then the GPS can be of
>any
> > make/model that you want.
October 29, 2003 - November 04, 2003
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ok