RV-Archive.digest.vol-ol
November 04, 2003 - November 10, 2003
> >
> > Mike Robertson
>
>
>Thanks for the follow up, Mike. Here is the quote from Advisory Circular
>138-20 that the EAA is using in their opinion about GPS in IFR ops:
>
>Paragraph 4, Background, subparagraph g:
>(3) IFR Navigation Equipment. GPS equipment for IFR
>navigation is for use as a supplemental navigation system. The
>installation of GPS equipment does not affect the requirement for
>a primary means of navigation appropriate to the route intended
>to be flown. Within the contiguous United States, Alaska,
>Hawaii, and surrounding coastal waters, this requirement can be
>met with an operational, independent VOR receiver. Additional
>navigation equipment redundancy may be required for operation in
>oceanic and remote airspace.
>
>Are experimental aircraft subject to the requirements of the AC20-138?
>Or, is the AC *only* advisory, not regulatory, in scope? Or, has this AC
>been superseded by something newer?
>
>Thanks in advance for your reply,
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>==============
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
You're right, it was worse with a rivet gun but the squeezer is doing
it too.
(I have also heard from two Van's employees, one says that squeezing tends
to be worse for gaps, the other says bucking is worse.)
Gus made a good point that if you are squeezing you may be able to have
a free hand to hold the parts together. This did not appear to help
in this case though.
That's an awesome looking squeezer! I have a very used CP-214 myself,
which with the longeron yoke and 4-inch no-hole can get to every rivet on
the skeleton.
Paul
>
> >
> >I just spoke to Gus at Van's about it and he agrees that insufficient
> >clamping is the problem and would not leave any gap that you can
> >see daylight through on this part. So I am going to try drilling out
> >(again) and finding some way to put an extra clamp on there.
>
> I suspect you are having trouble because you are using a rivet gun
> instead of a squeezer. On the few rivets I had to hit with the rivet gun, I
> found it was more difficult to close the gap.
>
> I used a squeezer on nearly every rivet.
>
> http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG ($100 on Ebay)
>
> This foot-operated, 9 inch throat monster, along with a more
> conventional CP-214C with a selection of yokes made it possible for me to
> squeeze almost all the rivets on the tail.
>
> I think when the rivet set strikes the rivet head against the
> spar, the rib behind the spar bounces away, leaving a gap.
>
> There are a few things you can try. 1)You can set the rivet gun to
> a lower pressure and hit the rivet with a lot of small strokes instead of a
> few big strokes. 2)You can use the flush rivet tool on the gun on the shop
> head, and use a universal rivet set to buck the other side. (You drill a
> 3/16" hole in a chunk of steel to allow you to use sets to buck with.)
> 3)You can glue a rubber washer to your bucking bar to help brace the metal
> around the rivet. The rubber washer should be tall enough to press against
> the rib before the bar touches the rivet.
>
> You can practice these techniques on scrap before trying them on
> the tail itself.
>
> Bill Dube'
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
I saw a story this morning where Bruce Bohannon's aircraft became a glider during
an altitude record attempt because the fuel vents iced over. The moisture
source was f fluid from the spray bars used for engine cooling.
Now, my airplane doesn't have spray bars, but it does have external fuel vents
that look like excellent ice accumulators. Anyone else share this opinion? Has
anyone done anything that might improve the situation? I find it interesting
that we worry about heated pitot tubes, but not fuel vents. My airplane will
fly *much* better with an iced pitot tube than with two iced fuel vents...
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | Fred Kunkel - Thanks! |
Hi All,
Got a couple quick responses for Fred's address inluding an email from
'clearairtools.com' that surely looked like a SPAM email until later
inspection. ;)
Below is Fred's latest info:
contact(at)clearairtools.com
Phone: 818 775-1650
Thanks guys!
/\/elson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Fred Kunkel - Thanks! |
Just a note about Fred Kunkel and ClearAir Tools.
Information for those who may not have heard of Fred....His company has
really good deals on tools, riveting equipment, and hardware. This is not
"cheaply made" stuff, but name brand, top of the line equipment. I know for
a fact his air squeezers are just about the best deal around, as well as
many of his other items. He has more stuff than you probably can imagine!
Before you start buying lots of tools, give Fred a try, you won't be
disspointed.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David E. Nelson
Subject: RV-List: Fred Kunkel - Thanks!
Hi All,
Got a couple quick responses for Fred's address inluding an email from
'clearairtools.com' that surely looked like a SPAM email until later
inspection. ;)
Below is Fred's latest info:
contact(at)clearairtools.com
Phone: 818 775-1650
Thanks guys!
/\/elson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> I saw a story this morning where Bruce Bohannon's aircraft
> became a glider during an altitude record attempt because the
> fuel vents iced over. The moisture source was f fluid from
> the spray bars used for engine cooling.
>
> Now, my airplane doesn't have spray bars, but it does have
> external fuel vents that look like excellent ice
> accumulators. Anyone else share this opinion? Has anyone
> done anything that might improve the situation? I find it
> interesting that we worry about heated pitot tubes, but not
> fuel vents. My airplane will fly *much* better with an iced
> pitot tube than with two iced fuel vents...
Kyle,
I don't have icing experience with my plane, but I did have that
concern. The vents on my 6A are what Van calls for, the 45 degree cut
AN fitting. I filed a small flat on the aft side of the fitting, above
the open bevel area, and drilled a 3/32" hole from the aft side. This
hole is "masked" as viewed from the front, so hopefully, it would allow
an alternate vent.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michel" <rv8ter(at)rogers.com> |
I agree with you! This is why I modified my RV8 vents and routed the tubing
to the ramp so that it gets the air coming from the cowling area. Have not
made any tests, so it's all experimental.
Had the experience with my one vent RV3, a mud dauber had made a real tight
seal and I was caught over bush land and after diverting still put almost
one hour before landing.
The engine did not quit but the wing tanks were gravely modified.
RV8 120 hrs
Michel
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Vent Icing
I saw a story this morning where Bruce Bohannon's aircraft became a glider
during an altitude record attempt because the fuel vents iced over. The
moisture source was f fluid from the spray bars used for engine cooling.
Now, my airplane doesn't have spray bars, but it does have external fuel
vents that look like excellent ice accumulators. Anyone else share this
opinion? Has anyone done anything that might improve the situation? I find
it interesting that we worry about heated pitot tubes, but not fuel vents.
My airplane will fly *much* better with an iced pitot tube than with two
iced fuel vents...
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Gascolator extensions |
I bet you meant cowl, not canopy.
I used one of the quick drains with the 1" extension on my gascolator.
I'll have a hole in the cowl aligned with the drain that will allow me
to insert an AL tube (3/8 x 10"?), capture the drain, push and take a
sample. All in theory so far. I'm working on the cowl now, so we'll
see how it works out soon enough...
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: hollandm [mailto:hollandm(at)pacbell.net]
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 11:03 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Gascolator extensions
>
>
>
> I'm considering adding a short extension tube to the bottom
> of the gascolator to so that the quick drain will end-up
> flush with the canopy bottom. Is there any problem with
> this? My concern is with possible movement of the canopy and
> how much clearance to allow, choice of material for the tube
> and fittings.
>
>
> Thanks
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
Ah the memories....Thanks for refering to my post 5 years ago. You'd
think I would be done with this plane by now! But, no....
Anyway. I bet you are fine. Do you have a picture to share? Can
another builder take a look in person?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Eastham [mailto:abstraction(at)yahoo.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 03, 2003 10:42 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: VS rib to spar gap
>
>
>
> Followup on what I wrote a while ago:
>
> > I have been trying to rivet my VS ribs to the forward spar
> for a while
> > now. (RV-9, but same VS in 7 and 8) After some learning
> curve on the
> > rivet gun, my only remaining problem is that a gap forms
> between the
> > rib and spar as I drive the rivet.
>
> Gus at Van's told me that gaps "are not good" and to drill
> out and clamp better, or use pop rivets if I cannot eliminate
> the gap. I've tried clamping everywhere possible but still
> have gaps forming. Now I find this old post from Scott at Vans:
>
> http://www.matronics.com/searching/getmsg_script.cgi?INDEX=460
> 98614?KEYS=spar_&_rib_&_gap?LISTNAME=RV?HITNUMBER=108?SERIAL=1
> 8500310051?SHOWBUTTONS=YES
>
> Which seems to say that small gaps are ok (on the HS) if the
> parts are tight before riveting, which they have been. My
> gaps are small too (.01 - .02"? Can't find a feeler gauge)
>
> After lots of experimenting one of the causes that seems
> impossible to eliminate here is that you cannot clamp both
> sides of the flange surrounding some of the rivets. This
> seems to allow enough slack to allow the flange to lift up as
> the shop head is formed.
>
> After at least 10 drilled rivets, 2 damaged holes (about to
> receive AD5 rivets), several nicks on my spar, countless test
> strips to try to identify the problem, and a *huge* delay, I
> guess I will push ahead gaps and all. Anyone want to argue
> for the pop rivet approach? I wish I knew how common this
> problem is because I sure don't see anyone else using pop
> rivets here...did anyone else hold their spar up to the light
> and not see a gap?
>
> Just barely hanging on,
> Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Sather" <sather(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent Icing |
With out the liquid spray bar cooling would this still be a problem with the
fuel vents where the are installed? Have not heard that problem on a
standard RV.
Bobby
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Vent Icing
>
> > I saw a story this morning where Bruce Bohannon's aircraft
> > became a glider during an altitude record attempt because the
> > fuel vents iced over. The moisture source was f fluid from
> > the spray bars used for engine cooling.
> >
> > Now, my airplane doesn't have spray bars, but it does have
> > external fuel vents that look like excellent ice
> > accumulators. Anyone else share this opinion? Has anyone
> > done anything that might improve the situation? I find it
> > interesting that we worry about heated pitot tubes, but not
> > fuel vents. My airplane will fly *much* better with an iced
> > pitot tube than with two iced fuel vents...
>
>
> Kyle,
> I don't have icing experience with my plane, but I did have that
> concern. The vents on my 6A are what Van calls for, the 45 degree cut
> AN fitting. I filed a small flat on the aft side of the fitting, above
> the open bevel area, and drilled a 3/32" hole from the aft side. This
> hole is "masked" as viewed from the front, so hopefully, it would allow
> an alternate vent.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stainless Steel Tape |
>Date: Tue, 4 Nov 2003 15:18:43 -0600
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>I was just looking to purchase some 3" Stainless steel tape for my latest
>RV6 flaps, and found out most places are wanting $1.00+ per foot (even JC
>Whitney)--- YIKES!!
>
>So....as typical, I found the manufacturer, and ordered a BUNCH!!
>
>I negotiated a much better deal, and will be passing it on to everyone
>else!
>
>I will be selling it on my website starting next week, and the price will
>be
>$.50 cents per foot. The stainless tape is 3" with the heavy duty Acrylic
>adhesive, exactly what works well on the leading edge of the -4,6,7, & 8
>flaps.
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>
FWIW, I found the stainless tape to be really wicked...would not lay down
smoothly and the edges were so sharp as to make handling it a hazardous
endeavor. The plastic tape (UMHF, VHF, FBI, CIA, whatever it's called) went
on beautifully and safely. It's held up perfectly for four years thus far.
Stein, get some of this stuff too and you'll sell a ton of it!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
350 hrs.
MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
http://shopping.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Gascolator extensions |
LARRY-You might look at the Cessna gasotator with the remote cable and put
the drain tube tube out the exit ramp-the cable operates from the oil door-works
great-TOM
Tom Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
President EAA Chapter 1097
wfact01(at)aol.com
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
Tel: 203-266-5300
Fax: 202-266-5140
EAA Technical/Flight Advisor
RV-8 540 LYC (Engine Runs, Taxi-Tests)
S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Cheap Sectionals???? |
I just ran across www.avmaps.com They sell sectional and other
aviation map products. Their sectional price is $5.99 That's a
bunch lower than even the FAA sells them direct (8.00)
Has anybody had any dealings with this company, or any other
recommendations of places for cheap maps that you use.
TIA,
Laird RV-6 820hrs
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BillRVSIX(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV7 Facet boost pump location ? |
Hello IM building a RV-6 and want to see how the RV -7 Facet fuel pump is
mounted and located if any one could send a picture i would appreciate it. Thanks
Bill Higgins
Whigg1170(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless Steel Tape |
I'm surprised that stainless steel tape is still being used on the flap's
leading edges. When Van's came out with the UHMW tape and in an RVator
article extolled its virtues as compared to the SS stuff, it convinced me to
use the HHMW despite the fact that I already had a roll of the SS tape. I'm
very happy with the UHMW, goes on easily and doesn't wrinkle as I have seen
on lots of RV's with the SS. My experience, anyway.
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stainless Steel Tape |
Folks,
While you're talking about it........here's a tip.........put the UHMW tape
on the UNDERSIDE of the wing skin........NOT on the leading edge of the flap.
This way you DO NOT SEE the tape. No scratches on my flaps in 260 hours - and,
if they start to get scratched I can always put the tape on 'em :
).
Rick Gray RV6 in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
please archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Sectionals???? |
| From: | Kevin Maxwell <kevmaxwell(at)mac.com> |
I use their subscription service and have been very happy.
Kevin Maxwell
F1
On Tuesday, November 4, 2003, at 05:32 PM, Laird Owens wrote:
>
> I just ran across www.avmaps.com They sell sectional and other
> aviation map products. Their sectional price is $5.99 That's a
> bunch lower than even the FAA sells them direct (8.00)
>
> Has anybody had any dealings with this company, or any other
> recommendations of places for cheap maps that you use.
>
> TIA,
>
> Laird RV-6 820hrs
> SoCal
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Sectionals???? |
AVmaps.com is priced 1 cent below the price at http://www.flyairways.com -
they advertise 25% off the $8 price for Sectionals, or $6. They also have
all the IFR maps and every other map and the Airport/Facility Directory,
etc. I've called them and ordered from them - and they do NOT charge the $5
shipping shown when you check out - use U.S. Postal Svc for about $1.22 for
a single map. Tried to check shipping at www.avmaps.com and the site
wouldn't come up.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laird Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cheap Sectionals????
>
> I just ran across www.avmaps.com They sell sectional and other
> aviation map products. Their sectional price is $5.99 That's a
> bunch lower than even the FAA sells them direct (8.00)
>
> Has anybody had any dealings with this company, or any other
> recommendations of places for cheap maps that you use.
>
> TIA,
>
> Laird RV-6 820hrs
> SoCal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
j1j2h3(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Excellent description by John Brick. I would add that Alodine is
>>electrically conductive while Anodize is an electrical insulator.
>>
>>
>
>Man, you've just given me a whole 'nother thing to worry about. If I
>prime with a non-conductive primer, do I then have to worry about not
>getting a good ground path for my electrics?
>
Yes, and no. Yes, because paint COULD prevent a grounding screw from
contacting the metal. Removing the paint in that area only will
alleviate that problem. Priming with paint on both sides would be worst
case. Usually there is enough contact between the sides of the hole and
the grounding fastener that you get conduction. The rivets are enough
to supply conduction paths between completely isolated items .... such
as primer before assembly. One solution is to have a few really good
grounding points and routing grounding wires to those points.
Linn
>
>Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
>Tennessee)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
Funny- I just completed riveting these ribs to the VS tonight just before I
came up and read this string of mails. I ran back downstairs to see if I had
any gaps that I didn't recall. I don't see any gaps on mine so I speculated
on what could cause then based on what I just did. By the way, I used a
squeezer for the two independent ribs to spar attachments, and bucked the
ribs that attach together with the spar in the middle ( forget the numbers).
I had difficulty getting the squeezer in this area so decided it was just
easier to buck them.
Since the ribs attach to the spar at an angle it is pretty easy to pull a
gap if the flanges aren't held tight to the rib even though the rib is at an
angle. This was why I bucked the ribs at the bottom. I was having trouble
getting the squeezer in there without bending the rib back and pulling the
flange away from the spar. I was only holding it with clecoes so it could
bend away.
On the ones I squeezed, I had the ability to hold the rib flange flat
against the spar while holding the squeezer with the other hand and that
seemed to work well. I personally think it is nicer to squeeze them to avoid
gaps but I have screwed up both ways. I couldn't get a piece of paper
between the flange and the spar and they seemed pretty tight. Not sure what
the spec is but if you can see light between them that may be too much. The
check of the clecoing the skin to the assembly was a good idea I think.
Also, given there aren't that many rivets, it might be good to try drilling
one rib out to see if holding the rib differently really helps. With only
riveting a rib flange to the spar there really shouldn't be a reason to have
a gap unless something is pulling the flange away while riveting and that
likely is connected with the way you are holding it. Might be good to get
someone to lend a hand to avoid this. I did this many times when I thought,
while it was possible to hold myself, it was much easier and better quality
to have a hand.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: VS rib to spar gap
>
> You're right, it was worse with a rivet gun but the squeezer is doing
> it too.
>
> (I have also heard from two Van's employees, one says that squeezing tends
> to be worse for gaps, the other says bucking is worse.)
>
> Gus made a good point that if you are squeezing you may be able to have
> a free hand to hold the parts together. This did not appear to help
> in this case though.
>
> That's an awesome looking squeezer! I have a very used CP-214 myself,
> which with the longeron yoke and 4-inch no-hole can get to every rivet on
> the skeleton.
>
> Paul
>
> >
> > >
> > >I just spoke to Gus at Van's about it and he agrees that insufficient
> > >clamping is the problem and would not leave any gap that you can
> > >see daylight through on this part. So I am going to try drilling out
> > >(again) and finding some way to put an extra clamp on there.
> >
> > I suspect you are having trouble because you are using a rivet
gun
> > instead of a squeezer. On the few rivets I had to hit with the rivet
gun, I
> > found it was more difficult to close the gap.
> >
> > I used a squeezer on nearly every rivet.
> >
> > http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG ($100 on Ebay)
> >
> > This foot-operated, 9 inch throat monster, along with a more
> > conventional CP-214C with a selection of yokes made it possible for me
to
> > squeeze almost all the rivets on the tail.
> >
> > I think when the rivet set strikes the rivet head against the
> > spar, the rib behind the spar bounces away, leaving a gap.
> >
> > There are a few things you can try. 1)You can set the rivet gun
to
> > a lower pressure and hit the rivet with a lot of small strokes instead
of a
> > few big strokes. 2)You can use the flush rivet tool on the gun on the
shop
> > head, and use a universal rivet set to buck the other side. (You drill a
> > 3/16" hole in a chunk of steel to allow you to use sets to buck with.)
> > 3)You can glue a rubber washer to your bucking bar to help brace the
metal
> > around the rivet. The rubber washer should be tall enough to press
against
> > the rib before the bar touches the rivet.
> >
> > You can practice these techniques on scrap before trying them
on
> > the tail itself.
> >
> > Bill Dube'
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
As I read this continuing commentary, I begine to remember 5 years ago when
I was at this stage - without dragging out the plans and my detailed notes
(whining) I do believe that I rebent the rib's flange so that the rib was
about an 8th of an inch longer - was a real pain to do but I got it done.
Another of those, "No, I've never heard of that." from Van's and here we are
5 years later with the same problem on the newest and best kits.
How I love people who really practice Continuous Quality Improvement (more
descriptive or meaningful words for Total Quality Management) - and how I
resent those who won't get on board and do simple things to make things
better for those coming along behind.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: VS rib to spar gap
>
> Funny- I just completed riveting these ribs to the VS tonight just before
I
> came up and read this string of mails. I ran back downstairs to see if I
had
> any gaps that I didn't recall. I don't see any gaps on mine so I
speculated
> on what could cause then based on what I just did. By the way, I used a
> squeezer for the two independent ribs to spar attachments, and bucked the
> ribs that attach together with the spar in the middle ( forget the
numbers).
> I had difficulty getting the squeezer in this area so decided it was just
> easier to buck them.
>
> Since the ribs attach to the spar at an angle it is pretty easy to pull a
> gap if the flanges aren't held tight to the rib even though the rib is at
an
> angle. This was why I bucked the ribs at the bottom. I was having trouble
> getting the squeezer in there without bending the rib back and pulling the
> flange away from the spar. I was only holding it with clecoes so it could
> bend away.
>
> On the ones I squeezed, I had the ability to hold the rib flange flat
> against the spar while holding the squeezer with the other hand and that
> seemed to work well. I personally think it is nicer to squeeze them to
avoid
> gaps but I have screwed up both ways. I couldn't get a piece of paper
> between the flange and the spar and they seemed pretty tight. Not sure
what
> the spec is but if you can see light between them that may be too much.
The
> check of the clecoing the skin to the assembly was a good idea I think.
> Also, given there aren't that many rivets, it might be good to try
drilling
> one rib out to see if holding the rib differently really helps. With only
> riveting a rib flange to the spar there really shouldn't be a reason to
have
> a gap unless something is pulling the flange away while riveting and that
> likely is connected with the way you are holding it. Might be good to get
> someone to lend a hand to avoid this. I did this many times when I
thought,
> while it was possible to hold myself, it was much easier and better
quality
> to have a hand.
>
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
> Quick build fuselage now in basement
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
> 1974 TR6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: VS rib to spar gap
>
>
> >
> > You're right, it was worse with a rivet gun but the squeezer is doing
> > it too.
> >
> > (I have also heard from two Van's employees, one says that squeezing
tends
> > to be worse for gaps, the other says bucking is worse.)
> >
> > Gus made a good point that if you are squeezing you may be able to have
> > a free hand to hold the parts together. This did not appear to help
> > in this case though.
> >
> > That's an awesome looking squeezer! I have a very used CP-214 myself,
> > which with the longeron yoke and 4-inch no-hole can get to every rivet
on
> > the skeleton.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >I just spoke to Gus at Van's about it and he agrees that insufficient
> > > >clamping is the problem and would not leave any gap that you can
> > > >see daylight through on this part. So I am going to try drilling out
> > > >(again) and finding some way to put an extra clamp on there.
> > >
> > > I suspect you are having trouble because you are using a
rivet
> gun
> > > instead of a squeezer. On the few rivets I had to hit with the rivet
> gun, I
> > > found it was more difficult to close the gap.
> > >
> > > I used a squeezer on nearly every rivet.
> > >
> > > http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG ($100 on Ebay)
> > >
> > > This foot-operated, 9 inch throat monster, along with a more
> > > conventional CP-214C with a selection of yokes made it possible for me
> to
> > > squeeze almost all the rivets on the tail.
> > >
> > > I think when the rivet set strikes the rivet head against the
> > > spar, the rib behind the spar bounces away, leaving a gap.
> > >
> > > There are a few things you can try. 1)You can set the rivet
gun
> to
> > > a lower pressure and hit the rivet with a lot of small strokes instead
> of a
> > > few big strokes. 2)You can use the flush rivet tool on the gun on the
> shop
> > > head, and use a universal rivet set to buck the other side. (You drill
a
> > > 3/16" hole in a chunk of steel to allow you to use sets to buck with.)
> > > 3)You can glue a rubber washer to your bucking bar to help brace the
> metal
> > > around the rivet. The rubber washer should be tall enough to press
> against
> > > the rib before the bar touches the rivet.
> > >
> > > You can practice these techniques on scrap before trying them
> on
> > > the tail itself.
> > >
> > > Bill Dube'
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
I agree that rivets swell up during squeezing/bucking so as to make really
secure contact with the unpainted sides of the hole in the skins and
longerons through which the rivets are inserted. There should be no problem
with a ground path from almost anywhere in the basic airframe of an RV-x.
I was curious about this issue and used my digital multimeter with really
long leads and measured the resistance from a point near the center of the
stainless steel firewall of my RV-6 back to the tail area (where my Whelen
power supply is installed and grounded). After measuring the resistance of
each long lead and subtracting, I was back at the 0.06 ohms that my meter
always reads when holding the ends of my normal test leads together to check
"zero".
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alodine
>
> j1j2h3(at)juno.com wrote:
>
> >
> >>Excellent description by John Brick. I would add that Alodine is
> >>electrically conductive while Anodize is an electrical insulator.
> >
> >Man, you've just given me a whole 'nother thing to worry about. If I
> >prime with a non-conductive primer, do I then have to worry about not
> >getting a good ground path for my electrics?
> >
> Yes, and no. Yes, because paint COULD prevent a grounding screw from
> contacting the metal. Removing the paint in that area only will
> alleviate that problem. Priming with paint on both sides would be worst
> case. Usually there is enough contact between the sides of the hole and
> the grounding fastener that you get conduction. The rivets are enough
> to supply conduction paths between completely isolated items .... such
> as primer before assembly. One solution is to have a few really good
> grounding points and routing grounding wires to those points.
> Linn
>
> >Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
> >Tennessee)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer(at)iserv.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Sectionals???? |
I use AvShop at avshop.com. The sectionals are $6.70 each and A/FDs are
$4.10. Shipping is always only $1.00 no matter how many sectionals or A/FDs
are sent at a time. The always arrive before the old ones expire.
Doug Fischer -9A Emp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laird Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cheap Sectionals????
>
> I just ran across www.avmaps.com They sell sectional and other
> aviation map products. Their sectional price is $5.99 That's a
> bunch lower than even the FAA sells them direct (8.00)
>
> Has anybody had any dealings with this company, or any other
> recommendations of places for cheap maps that you use.
>
> TIA,
>
> Laird RV-6 820hrs
> SoCal
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Mike Robertson wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> You asked from a regulatory standpoint what was allowed/required. I guess
> the answer was somewhat misleading. Per AC 20-138, dated 5/94, and the
> current AIMS you must have the appropriate ground based nav equipment on
> board the aircraft but you don't have to use it provided the installed GPS
> is IFR approved. Obviously if you only have an enroute or terminal IFR GPS
> then you would need the proper/appropriate equipment for the approach.
>
> Does that clear it up??
>
> Mike Robertson
It may; this latest answer is different from what you originally stated
(I think...) and is more in keeping with the interpretation the EAA
gurus have formulated.
So.....it appears that a VOR receiver needs to be on the shopping list
for anyone planning IFR enroute ops in their experimental aircraft
regardless of what flavor GPS is going to be installed.
I suspect this tidbit is going to come as an unpleasant surprise to some
builders! The argument that the GPS will relieve us of having to be
capable of using "ground based equipment" seems to be false.
Sam Buchanan
====================
>
>
>
>>From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>>Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2003 21:05:04 -0600
>>
>>
>>Mike Robertson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>Sam,
>>>
>>>Sorry it took me so long to reply but I wanted to check on something to
>>
>>amek
>>
>>>sure I was giving you the right info.
>>>
>>>There is NO requirement to have or use a VOR for IFR enroute. The reg
>>
>>says
>>
>>>that you will have navigation equipment compatible with the ground
>>>facilities to be used. If you don't use any ground facilities then
>>
>>there is
>>
>>>no need for ground based navigational equipment. An enroute GPS may be
>>
>>the
>>
>>>only thing you use for IFR enroute.
>>>
>>>Now if you do use a VOR for enroute navigation then the GPS can be of
>>
>>any
>>
>>>make/model that you want.
>>>
>>>Mike Robertson
>>
>>
>>Thanks for the follow up, Mike. Here is the quote from Advisory Circular
>>138-20 that the EAA is using in their opinion about GPS in IFR ops:
>>
>>Paragraph 4, Background, subparagraph g:
>>(3) IFR Navigation Equipment. GPS equipment for IFR
>>navigation is for use as a supplemental navigation system. The
>>installation of GPS equipment does not affect the requirement for
>>a primary means of navigation appropriate to the route intended
>>to be flown. Within the contiguous United States, Alaska,
>>Hawaii, and surrounding coastal waters, this requirement can be
>>met with an operational, independent VOR receiver. Additional
>>navigation equipment redundancy may be required for operation in
>>oceanic and remote airspace.
>>
>>Are experimental aircraft subject to the requirements of the AC20-138?
>>Or, is the AC *only* advisory, not regulatory, in scope? Or, has this AC
>>been superseded by something newer?
>>
>>Thanks in advance for your reply,
>>
>>Sam Buchanan
>>
>>==============
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kyle.boatright(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent Icing |
Yep, the fuel vents could ice, even without the spray bar. As long as the
vents stick out in the breeze, they are subject to icing. In fact, their
shape would make them ice faster than most of the remainder of the airframe.
(I don't remember exactly why, or where I found this tidbit of info, but
smaller jagged or pointy shapes ice faster than larger more rounded
surfaces.) I suppose this is one reason Cessna hides their vents behind the
struts on some (all?) of their strut equipped aircraft.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Sather" <sather(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Vent Icing
>
>
> With out the liquid spray bar cooling would this still be a problem with
the
> fuel vents where the are installed? Have not heard that problem on a
> standard RV.
> Bobby
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Vent Icing
>
>
> >
> > > I saw a story this morning where Bruce Bohannon's aircraft
> > > became a glider during an altitude record attempt because the
> > > fuel vents iced over. The moisture source was f fluid from
> > > the spray bars used for engine cooling.
> > >
> > > Now, my airplane doesn't have spray bars, but it does have
> > > external fuel vents that look like excellent ice
> > > accumulators. Anyone else share this opinion? Has anyone
> > > done anything that might improve the situation? I find it
> > > interesting that we worry about heated pitot tubes, but not
> > > fuel vents. My airplane will fly *much* better with an iced
> > > pitot tube than with two iced fuel vents...
> >
> >
> > Kyle,
> > I don't have icing experience with my plane, but I did have that
> > concern. The vents on my 6A are what Van calls for, the 45 degree cut
> > AN fitting. I filed a small flat on the aft side of the fitting, above
> > the open bevel area, and drilled a 3/32" hole from the aft side. This
> > hole is "masked" as viewed from the front, so hopefully, it would allow
> > an alternate vent.
> >
> > Alex Peterson
> > Maple Grove, MN
> > RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Cheap Sectionals???? |
My local EAA chapter sells them for $5 + shipping (or pick them up at
the next meeting). Another member perk.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Douglas A. Fischer [mailto:dfischer(at)iserv.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, November 04, 2003 9:59 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Sectionals????
>
>
>
>
> I use AvShop at avshop.com. The sectionals are $6.70 each
> and A/FDs are $4.10. Shipping is always only $1.00 no matter
> how many sectionals or A/FDs are sent at a time. The always
> arrive before the old ones expire.
>
> Doug Fischer -9A Emp
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Laird Owens" <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
> To: "rv-list"
> Subject: RV-List: Cheap Sectionals????
>
>
> >
> > I just ran across www.avmaps.com They sell sectional and other
> > aviation map products. Their sectional price is $5.99
> That's a bunch
> > lower than even the FAA sells them direct (8.00)
> >
> > Has anybody had any dealings with this company, or any other
> > recommendations of places for cheap maps that you use.
> >
> > TIA,
> >
> > Laird RV-6 820hrs
> > SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hollandm" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Filter options (was gascolator) |
I'm considering tossing the gascolator, too much trouble for too little benefit.
What alternative fuel filter is acceptable for aircraft use? I've heard that
some of the automotive types aren't recommended.
Another complication is that I have a floscan sensor mounted between the facet
pump and the bulkhead penetration and there isn't any room in that area.
Thanks
Mike Holland
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? |
Dear Listers,
The List Fund Raiser is going well so far this year and I wanted to say
"Thank You" to everyone that has made a Contribution already this year!
Though the generous support of Andy Gold and the Builders Bookstore (
http://www.buildersbooks.com ), I'm able to offer some truly awesome gifts
with qualifying Contributions this year. There's quite a line up and a
rather diverse set of options - certainly something for every taste and
personality. Here's a list of this year's fine options:
* List Archive CD
* Aircraft Builder's Log
* Pilot Flashlight System
* Pro Pilot Logbook
* FAR/AIM on CD
* Jeppesen Flight Bag
* Aviation History Book
* Techstar Flight Computer
Please support your Email List Community AND pick up a really slick Gift at
the same time! The SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found at the
following URL:
http://www.matronics.com/contributions
Once again, I would like to thank everyone that has so generously supported
the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists Services here on the
Matronics servers!!
Thank you!
Matt Dralle
Matronics Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter options (was gascolator) |
> I'm considering tossing the gascolator, too much trouble for too
> little benefit. What alternative fuel filter is acceptable for
> aircraft use? I've heard that some of the automotive types aren't
> recommended.
>
> Another complication is that I have a floscan sensor mounted between
> the facet pump and the bulkhead penetration and there isn't any room
> in that area.
I've been using the Fram G-3 fuel filters (auto parts store, less than $5) in
my -6A for about 600 hours. I use one from each tank en route to the fuel
selector, and one between the flowscan sensor and the boost pump. The
later filter is primarily used as an air reservoir to dampen fuel flow pulses
from the engine driven pump and the boost pump. The pulses were
causing significant flow errors before I installed the 3rd Fram G3.
I also have a gascolator.
Tim******
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - First Flight 18 Dec 99
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
******
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Dana Overall wrote:
>
>BTW, Mike thanks for researching all you have on the issues this and
>spurring this conversation to help clear up once and for all.
>
>One point to keep emphasising though folks, is your new bird does not have
>to be, nor will be, IFR on your initial inspection.
>
>
"nor well be, IFR on your initial inspection."
I guess I don't understand that statement. Maybe I missed part of the
conversation somewhere.
If you aircraft is IFR equipped then it well be IFR after inspection. IMO
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Sectionals???? |
I use Howie Keefe's Air Charts. http://www.airchart.com/index.html The whole
country in one book if you use WACs, two books if you use Sectionals. Much
easier to manage in a -4 cockpit (or a Mustang) than folding maps. I have
been using them for several years and they are the answer for small croweded
cockpits and pilots who travel across the entire country. They also have an
IFR system as well.
Air Chart has a book that contains some of the info that is not found on WAC
charts but I use the AOPA Palm PDA airport directory. It has loads of
useful info in it.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Stainless Steel Tape |
In a message dated 11/4/03 7:05:17 PM Eastern Standard Time,
elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com writes:
> I'm
> very happy with the UHMW, goes on easily and doesn't wrinkle as I have seen
> on lots of RV's with the SS.
Henry,
Did you put the tape directly on the alclad aluminum? or over a primer? or
over the final paint? What would you recommend?
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <marknlisa(at)hometel.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's (more questions) |
Mike,
Please check to make sure you have the latest updates to your AIM. AOPA
maintains an HTML version of the AIM on their website for members. If you
are a member you can follow this link:
www.aopa.org/members/files/aim/chapter_1.html#1-1-20
If you aren't a member, try this link below which clarifies the AIM.
www.aopa.org/whatsnew/newsitems/1999/991213gps.html
The bottom line; you CAN use GPS in lieu of stand alone ADF or DME
equipment for IFR approach procedures (with certain restrictions), as well
as satisfying the requirement for DME above FL 240.
Mark
Sletten
---------------------------------------------
This message was sent using Home Telephone
Company's Web-Based Email interface.
http://webmail.hometel.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? |
| From: | glenn.williams(at)businessacft.bombardier.com |
11/05/2003 07:28:16 AM
Matt: How is your airplane coming along? when do you anticiapte being
finished and ready to fly?
Regards
Glenn Williams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
> I guess I don't understand that statement. Maybe I missed part of the
> conversation somewhere.
> If you aircraft is IFR equipped then it well be IFR after
> inspection. IMO
>
> Jerry
Jerry, in my case, the operating limitations indicate day VFR only
during the initial test phase. After that, it simply indicates that it
must be equipped accordingly for either night and/or IFR.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
Dana Overall wrote:
>
> Sam, after looking more closely at the AIM one particular points sticks out
> in my discussions with Old Bob. If an alternate is named it must have a non
> GPS approach if your primary is/was a GPS. I hadn't considered this and
> will check into it furthur. Stick a NAV head in since most airports either
> have a VOR approach, or an ILS that can be "converted" to a VOR, and you're
> home free. You must have an indicator head in anyway to go along with the
> GPS..........so time to look and see if one NAV head will handle both the
> GPS/NAV.
>
>
> Just thinking out loud.
I think you got it, Dana. The nifty little KX125 with the integrated VOR
indicator and the strong com section is my ticket to IFR conformance! :-)
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Roller applied paint finish |
I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss,
self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird
Hal Rozema
VSTOL 701
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Conrad <gwc(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Sensenich Prop Wanted |
I am looking for a Sensenich 70CM7S9-0-79 or similar prop for my 0-320
--160HP. The Collin Walker wooden prop developed a small crack & I would
like a fixed pitch metal prop. I can get new from Van's for $1870. But,
10-12 weeks delivery. Does anyone else except Sensenich supply a fixed
pitch metal prop for a RV-6A?
Gerry Conrad 514-697-0656.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filter options (was gascolator) |
I'm using a Purolator PRO-806 automotive fuel filter in the fuel supply for my
carburetted O360. The filter screen retaining nut has to be safetied by drilling
a hole through the shaft just behind it and inserting a cotter pin. That
done, the filter is good to 10 psi, will pass 35 gph before a 1/10 psi pressure
reduction can be measured, and blocks particles over 32 microns with a non-hydroscopic
nylon mesh screen that is not affected by alcohol. The clear pyrex
body permits visual preflight inspection provided you mount it where you can
see it. I put mine on the suction side of the boost pump so leakage and the lack
of flared tubing fittings are not a problem.
That said, this airplane is not flying yet so, as far as being something I know
for sure myself, the information above is just theoretical wishful thinking.
But, I just had to let you know because I love spouting all those numbers.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Roller applied paint finish |
Hal Rozema wrote:
>
>I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss,
>self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird
>
So is everyone else. Use a spray gun.
Linn
>
>Hal Rozema
>VSTOL 701
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop Wanted |
Gerald Conrad wrote:
>
> I am looking for a Sensenich 70CM7S9-0-79 or similar prop for my 0-320
> --160HP. The Collin Walker wooden prop developed a small crack & I would
> like a fixed pitch metal prop. I can get new from Van's for $1870. But,
> 10-12 weeks delivery. Does anyone else except Sensenich supply a fixed
> pitch metal prop for a RV-6A?
> Gerry Conrad 514-697-0656.
>
> Try here at Rondure. Price is a little less than Van's and a little faster
> because faster inhouse processing.
> Stan Shannon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Roller applied paint finish |
>
>I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss,
>self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird
The trouble with self-leveling finishes is that they are quite
thick, and thus heavy.
>>>>>> Spray painting <<<<<
Spray painting is really not that difficult. There are quite a few
good books on the subject.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/0879385235/ref=sib_dp_pt/002-6828491-6784036#reader-link
You can buy the equipment for about what you would pay someone to do it for
you. Practice on objects you don't care about with mis-mixed paint that you
can generally get cheap at the paint store. Get the same type/brand you are
planning to use.
I've found that the most overlooked requirement for good painting
is adequate light. Buy a few of the $10 florescent shop lights and prop
them up on end around the perimeter of your painting project.
The next overlooked requirement is surface preparation. All
surfaces should be gone over with a scuff pad with water with a dash of
soap, then blown dry with an air gun, then allowed to dry completely.
Set the gun for a good pattern with thinner on the side of a large
cardboard box. Fill the gun with paint and put a few test strokes on your
garbage cans. Once you get the "feel" of the way the paint lays down on the
garbage can, and are satisfied with the result, move over to the car or
airplane. Do this for every layer.
You can hardly blow it with the base coat / clear coat style
paints. If the base coat has runs, clean the panel off with thinner and
shoot it again. If the basecoat is too thin, shoot more right over it. If
the clear coat runs, wait for it to dry and sand out the runs. Too thin,
shoot it again while it is still tacky.
Don't buy cheap paint. Get the good names like DuPont or the like.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
| Subject: | While yokes are _really_ needed for a 7A |
Hi All,
Quick question. Which yokes/sizes are really needed to build a 7A slow build?
At ~$100/ea I'd like to try and minimize the initial cost. BTW, these will be
for a pneumatic squeezer.
Thanks,
/\/elson
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Sectionals???? |
Just a few words about the chart business.
All chart dealers buy sectionals from FAA for $4.80 each. That includes us,
Sporty's (the largest chart dealer) Spruce, and everyone else. So, even at
full retail ($8) there is not a lot of margin.
The dream, of course is that subscribers would be subscribing to large
amounts of charts, cause it doesn't take any more time to package 10 then it
does for just one. But that's not typically how it works out. About a
third to half of our subscribers get just a single item. And of those who
do get multiple charts, chances are the renewal dates are spread throughout
the year, making any given shipment still for just 1-2 items.
Bottom line is that it is hard enough to maintain a viable business selling
at full retail. I can't imagine how anyone can continue to do it as low as
$5.99. $1.19 margin profit per chart minus about 25 cents for credit card
fees and another 15-20 for envelopes and receipts is .79 cents. Between
credit card processing, pulling, packing, receipt making, and record keeping
it takes about 7-8 minutes to process an order (and thats when you get good
at it) .85 cents times 8 per hour = $6.32 per hour. And thats not
including all the others tasks you do for free (inventory maintenance,
ordering, obsolete returns, accounting, advertising, tracking down expired
credit cards, special customer service, etc.......) Someone is working
pretty cheap.
We sell sectionals for $7.65 which just covers the cost of $15 per hour
salary for the guys who do the packing. Spruce and Sporty's, the two
largest volume dealers sell for the full $8. They've been around for
awhile, as have we. So if we can't make money on it, why do we bother? For
us, (Sporty's and Spruce too) its a good way to keep in touch with our
customers. This way, if we keep a relationship going, maybe you'll buy
something else from us once in a while; ...things that do actually help pay
the rent.
But for the guy's to whom charts are their primary business? I've just got
to scratch my head and wonder. It can't be much more than the dream that's
keeping them alive.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
PilotsBooks (formerly e-charts)
www.PilotsBooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | North East - AeroElectric Seminar |
All,
EAA Chapter 334 is sponsoring Bob Nuckolls - North East AeroElectic Seminar
on March 6th and 7th of 2004.
As many of us, who have taken one of Bob's seminars knows - it's one of the
best investments we've made.
We have made special arrangements with the Groton Inn and Suites (very nice)
for extra special rates. The area is also a great place to visit with many
attractions, such as Mystic Seaport, Mystic Aquarium (Ballard exploration
center), Mystic Village, Watch Hill/Westerly, RI and many other activities
for a spouse/significant other, as well a two great casinos.
Check out Bob's website WWW. aeroelectric.com
Mark your calendars and register early,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
President EAA chapter 334
Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus
scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>I saw a story this morning where Bruce Bohannon's aircraft became a
glider >during an altitude record attempt because the fuel vents iced
over....
Well, he flies at higher altitudes than us "normal" pilots but it is a
problem that can happen to anyone.
My fuel vents are sections of vent line faired in with a piece of model
airplane aluminum strut material wrapped around them, airfoil shape. The
vent hole, of course, faces forwards. Being an airfoil shape make
them less susceptible to ice. The vent hole is always part of my
preflight inspection, of course, even though we don't have mud daubers
here in Colorado. Both vents reside in the "trough" that the cooling air
escapes from the engine/cowling and where the exhaust exits. The right
one in particular is somewhat grey from the exhaust hitting near it
(previously covered in the length of the exhaust discussion). That one
for sure is not going to ice over. I like the look better than the
bent-piece-of-tubing look and I think they may work better. Don't things
that look good work better??
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com> |
| Subject: | While yokes are _really_ needed for a 7A |
I have only the standard yoke that came with my Avery dimpler tool. Its like
2" or something - I think its the shallowest one. I'm almost totally done
with my metal work and I've been able to make it work. The bigger yokes come
in handy sometimes, but they are not impossible to do without.
Jordan Grant
RV-6 N198G (reserved)
Inst. Panel and Systems
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David E. Nelson
Subject: RV-List: While yokes are _really_ needed for a 7A
Hi All,
Quick question. Which yokes/sizes are really needed to build a 7A slow
build?
At ~$100/ea I'd like to try and minimize the initial cost. BTW, these will
be
for a pneumatic squeezer.
Thanks,
/\/elson
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent Icing |
I put a small hole in the back side of the vent tube as an alternate air
source. You could even put the hole above the gear leg door cover, on the
RV-8, and have it completely out of the slip stream. Just an idea
Rich Crosley
Palmdale, CA
RV-8, canopy and engine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: While yokes are _really_ needed for a 7A |
>
>
>Hi All,
>
>Quick question. Which yokes/sizes are really needed to build a 7A slow
>build?
I have a 4 inch thin nose:
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=SNYT45&variation=&aitem=11&mitem=13
My squeezer came with 2 inch regular yoke:
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=SNY20&variation=&aitem=5&mitem=13
There are very few instances where a deep yoke would be a problem,
and lots of times where you need the reach. Thus, I would opt for a deeper
"regular" yoke if I was given a choice.
The thin nose is very nice for getting in tight spots like the
trailing edge, (but you can't dimple with it.)
Of course, I also have "Mongo Squeeze", a CP-351 with 9 inch
alligator jaws.
http://www.killacycle.com/mongo1.JPG
Here is a CP 214C look-alike on Ebay. Looks like a twin piston model.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2569766527
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless Steel Tape |
Hi Dale,
I put the UHMW tape on after the flaps were finally painted and installed on
the 'plane. It's a big job to get the hinge pins in and I certainly didn't
want to take them off once done to do any work on them. To prevent
scratching the paint until the UHMW tape was installed I used a strip of 5
mil artist's Mylar over the tape area until all the installation adjustments
and rigging were complete.But, beforehand, I made sure the affected surface
area was spotlessly clean and washed down with solvent
Then retracting the flaps, I slid out the Mylar and marked a line with the
Sharpie on the flaps to show where the edge of the tape should be aligned
to.
Then I slid the Mylar back in until the flaps were fully lowered and the
actuator linkage disconnected (in my case at the flap weldment) in which
case the flap hangs down vertically. Then the tape was applied after a final
clean of the leading edge flange. That's a two person job, one to hold and
align the roll while the other peels back the "stickum" masking tape and
finally sticks it to the flap following the forward edge of the marked
line. The tape I got from Van's was just the right width so no trimming was
require there.
Bottom line: With the flaps fully retracted, can't see the tape.
Happy taping---Cheers!----Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: While yokes are _really_ needed for a 7A |
Just my opinion, but...
Sell the pneumatic squeezer (you don't need it), and get a Tatco squeezer
with the 2" yoke, the 3" yoke, the 2"x2" yoke, and the thin nose yoke...
You will come out ahead in the wallet, and never look back...
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David E. Nelson
Subject: RV-List: While yokes are _really_ needed for a 7A
Hi All,
Quick question. Which yokes/sizes are really needed to build a 7A slow
build?
At ~$100/ea I'd like to try and minimize the initial cost. BTW, these will
be
for a pneumatic squeezer.
Thanks,
/\/elson
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question ?? |
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish/buff out some
micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Anti-corrosion coatings |
In a message dated 11/4/03 11:04:44 PM Eastern Standard Time, j1j2h3(at)juno.com
writes:
> There are other paint systems that
> will
> >give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy.
>
> Okay, Dale. Don't keep us in suspense. What are they?
>
> Jim Hasper - RV-7
Most major paint companies would have coatings of this type. Corrosion
resistance is usually measured in a humidity chamber or sometimes in a salt spray
booth. These are ASTM test and the prospective paint supplier can give you the
data to compare vs their epoxies. Also, the test are usually run on cold rolled
steel panels.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Sensenich Prop Wanted |
Gerry
For the rest of us that fly Colins prop, could you give us a bit more info
on the crack. Where it developed, how big, or long etc.
Thanks
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Gerald Conrad
Subject: RV-List: Sensenich Prop Wanted
I am looking for a Sensenich 70CM7S9-0-79 or similar prop for my 0-320
--160HP. The Collin Walker wooden prop developed a small crack & I would
like a fixed pitch metal prop. I can get new from Van's for $1870. But,
10-12 weeks delivery. Does anyone else except Sensenich supply a fixed
pitch metal prop for a RV-6A?
Gerry Conrad 514-697-0656.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Richter <richterrbb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 21 Years of the RV-Ator |
Do any of you have this book? I saw it on Andy Gold's "Builder's
Bookstore" website as I was finding out how to make a contribution to
Matt's fundraiser.
Has it been of use to you? Better yet, would you recommend it to someone
you like?
I'm either on the verge of buying an RV-7QB kit in the next couple of
weeks, or it'll be about a year before I can do it. Either way, I'm
trying to start a collection of useful resources.
Thanks in advance for your inputs!
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>I had a fan pushing air in through 2 furnace filters.....
I assume your fan was a sealed motor type. Do you have a source? How big
was it to be effective? An open or Exposed motor can cause a KABOOM to
occur with flammable paint fumes as the brushes are hanging out in the
open, subject to producing sparks. Which means you don't want to use
your K-Mart box fan.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: >Re:Stainless Steel Tape |
Whichever tape you use; be SURE the edge doesn't catch when the flap is fully
extended !
I used my heat gun to warm the plastic tape so it went down smoothly.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent Icing |
Michael; I've got news for you!!
>them less susceptible to ice. The vent hole is always part of my
>preflight inspection, of course, even though we
>here in Colorado.>>>!!!
Several years ago my cousin Georgie Newbery flew his Bonanza from Florida to
Bolder Colo to visit his brother and the plane was parked outside for two
weeks. He took his plane up to do some training of his wife and they did
three circuits and the engine quit on climb-out. He did a magnificent job of
squeezing the plane into a tiny field at the back of farm buildings but went
into a ditch. No injuries but the Bonanza was a write-off. Cause: Mud
daubers had clogged both fuel vents! Couldn't have been there on the flight
from FLA. I saw the write-up in the local paper with a Photo of a very
wrinkled Bonanza at a 45 degree angle in the ditch!
Cheers!!----- Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
Here's my canopy polishing "tricks".
Try to always "wet sand" the plexi, the results are much better.
If the scratches are deep (you can catch a fingernail on them), start out by
using 600grit wet/dry sandpaper and sand in one direction until the scratch
dissapears.
Move to 1000 grit, sanding the opposite direction until all the 600 grit
marks are gone.
Move then to 1500 grit, once again removing all previous mars,
Then, polish with a buffing wheel using 3M Liquid Polishing Compound
(Carquest/Napa, etc..).
This should remove all sandpaper marks and leave the canopy looking new. Go
over it with the Plexus and there you have it.
I just finished restoring a REALLY messed up bubble canopy, full of
scratches, cuts, and massive abrasions (had 6" cargo straps over it during a
move on a trailer)-- NOT of my doing, but I helped fix it. Took me a good 8
hours, but the canopy looks new!
If the scratches are superficial, then start right out with the 1200-1500
grit sandpaper and polishing coumpound.
If the scratches are only light marks, then just use the polishing compoun
alone.
IMHO, Plexus is just about the best plexi cleaner out there, although not
the cheapest.
Contact me off list if you need a more detailed explanation or have any
questions. I've done a lot of plexi work, and can give you the skinny on
all the "snake oil" methods out there.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
Subject: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish/buff out some
micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 21 Years of the RV-Ator |
I only wish that Van's had "pushed it more when I first started. All sorts
of great tips and interesting reading. I consider it a must have. I finally
ordered it 6 months before I finished the plane!!!
>
>Do any of you have this book? I saw it on Andy Gold's "Builder's
>Bookstore" website as I was finding out how to make a contribution to
>Matt's fundraiser.
>
>Has it been of use to you? Better yet, would you recommend it to someone
>you like?
>
>I'm either on the verge of buying an RV-7QB kit in the next couple of
>weeks, or it'll be about a year before I can do it. Either way, I'm
>trying to start a collection of useful resources.
>
>Thanks in advance for your inputs!
>
>Randy
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Allen Mecum <mecum(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
I never post anything so this is a first.
I know that there is a product called Mirror Glaze by Mequiars that you can use
to polish plastic and glass to remove small scratches. However, not sure how
I will work on canopies.
here is the link to Mequiars plastic care products
http://www.meguiars.com/product_showroom/showproducts_template.cfm?SrcLine=BP
Allen Mecum
P M Condon wrote:
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish/buff out some
micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
> ----
>
> What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been
> using Plexus with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need
> to polish/buff out some micro fine scratches so I am
> wondering what others are using to do this? At the AOPA
> convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing
> kit.....I am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I
> realize that micro-mesh and other similar companies have a
> product...I am wondering what else is out there that polishes
> out micro scratches and all that. There are canopies on RV's
> at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of the
> mold-there so clean and scratch free...
There is a system called Scratch Off which has four different polishes.
It is designed for heavy scratch removal (successively finer grit), but
for "cobweb" scratch removal, using the finest polish should work very
well. It comes with a foam buffing pad designed to be put in a drill.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 21 Years of the RV-Ator |
No doubt it's worth every cent. Somebody mentioned it's becoming outdated,
but I think that's an overstatement.
If you subscribe to the RVator (don't we all), then you've already
rationalized the purpose of the book...so if you don't have a huge archive
of 'em, I think "21 Years" is well worth the price. I wished I got my copy
much earlier than I did.
Best of luck with the trip/purchase, and hope to meet you when you're out
this way.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Richter" <richterrbb(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: 21 Years of the RV-Ator
>
> Do any of you have this book? I saw it on Andy Gold's "Builder's
> Bookstore" website as I was finding out how to make a contribution to
> Matt's fundraiser.
>
> Has it been of use to you? Better yet, would you recommend it to someone
> you like?
>
> I'm either on the verge of buying an RV-7QB kit in the next couple of
> weeks, or it'll be about a year before I can do it. Either way, I'm
> trying to start a collection of useful resources.
>
> Thanks in advance for your inputs!
>
> Randy
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com> |
| Subject: | self flattening roll or brush on paint |
Hi Gummibear and Kabong,
The paint I was referring to is Interlux "Brightside" polyurethane.
It is made in Union NJ 908-686-1300.
I have used it on my boats for many years. It goes on easily with brush or roller,
and then it flattens out almost immediately. It dries hard, and I mean really
hard. I have a can in my storeroom that I took the info. from today. It had
lots of paint on the sides of the can, and I tried to scratch it with my fingernail
and then with a ballpoint pen. I also tried to bend the can to make it
separate from the label. It leaves a very glossy finish that is quite hard, but
also quite flexible.
Please understand that I am not necessarily recommending this product for your
airplane. I simply do not have the knowledge or experience to do so. However,
the stuff is what it is. maybe it's worth checking out!
Cheers
Doc
BearHawk Patrol #P002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
Another option...
Micro-Mesh is excellent stuff. The kit has "cusioned abrasives" (basically
wet/dry sandpaper but cloth, not paper) in increasingly fine steps, with a
compound to finish up. I had overspray on my wing tip lenses, and I used
Micro-Mesh to sand it off and then smooth to a clear finish.
I haven't used it on the canopy (yet), but I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/micromeshscratch.php
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
>
>
> > ----
> >
> > What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been
> > using Plexus with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need
> > to polish/buff out some micro fine scratches so I am
> > wondering what others are using to do this? At the AOPA
> > convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing
> > kit.....I am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I
> > realize that micro-mesh and other similar companies have a
> > product...I am wondering what else is out there that polishes
> > out micro scratches and all that. There are canopies on RV's
> > at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of the
> > mold-there so clean and scratch free...
>
>
> There is a system called Scratch Off which has four different polishes.
> It is designed for heavy scratch removal (successively finer grit), but
> for "cobweb" scratch removal, using the finest polish should work very
> well. It comes with a foam buffing pad designed to be put in a drill.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Re: List Fund Raiser - Wow, Have You Seen The Free Gifts? |
>--------------
>
>Matt: How is your airplane coming along? when do you anticiapte being
>finished and ready to fly?
>
>Regards
> Glenn Williams
>--------------
Well, I wish it was coming along faster! There always seems to be a
new distraction lately. Last I was working on the instrument panel. I
emailed a DXF CAD drawing of what I wanted to Steve Davis of the Panel
Pilot and he set me back a Plexi version so that I could trial fit all
of the instruments. I found a few things I didn't like, modified the
CAD and emailed it to him. He cut a second Plexi version and sent it
to me. It was prefect, so he cut me one out of aluminium. Totally
awesome! I can't recommend the process highly enough. Steve's a great
guy too, and easy to work with.
I did a whole website on my process with lots of cool pictures. Steve
even emailed a few of pictures of the gantry milling machine cutting
out the panel! Cool! Here's a link to the site:
http://www.matronics.com/MattsRV4/NewPanel/index.html
I was also working on painting the canopy frame and roll bar. I'm
using a dark, golden metallic. The motor mount came out beautiful, but
I've been having some trouble with the canopy frame - runs, don't you
know... Its going to look great if I can ever get it just right...
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
> Another option...
>
> Micro-Mesh is excellent stuff. The kit has "cusioned
> abrasives" (basically wet/dry sandpaper but cloth, not paper)
> in increasingly fine steps, with a compound to finish up. I
> had overspray on my wing tip lenses, and I used Micro-Mesh to
> sand it off and then smooth to a clear finish.
>
> I haven't used it on the canopy (yet), but I wouldn't
> hesitate to do so.
Dan, I'm glad your experience with Micro Mesh was good. Mine sucked. I
tried and failed to remove a scratch from my windscreen with the stuff.
I suppose if I worked for a few weeks on it, I could have finished the
job. Scratch Off was 10 times less work. I like it when the drill
works and I don't.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
I have used it on the canopy. It does work, however you need to be careful
not to "sand" the areas around your objective area. The purpose of the
finer steps in sand paper is to remove the scratches from the previous one.
If you don't hit the previous papers marks, you will have fine scratches all
around the area. I recommend feathering the job by using the finer
sandpapers progressively out further to ensure that you get all the
scratches out.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
>
> Another option...
>
> Micro-Mesh is excellent stuff. The kit has "cusioned abrasives"
(basically
> wet/dry sandpaper but cloth, not paper) in increasingly fine steps, with a
> compound to finish up. I had overspray on my wing tip lenses, and I used
> Micro-Mesh to sand it off and then smooth to a clear finish.
>
> I haven't used it on the canopy (yet), but I wouldn't hesitate to do so.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cspages/micromeshscratch.php
>
> Best of luck,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
> question ??
>
>
> >
> >
> > > ----
> > >
> > > What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been
> > > using Plexus with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need
> > > to polish/buff out some micro fine scratches so I am
> > > wondering what others are using to do this? At the AOPA
> > > convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing
> > > kit.....I am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I
> > > realize that micro-mesh and other similar companies have a
> > > product...I am wondering what else is out there that polishes
> > > out micro scratches and all that. There are canopies on RV's
> > > at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of the
> > > mold-there so clean and scratch free...
> >
> >
> > There is a system called Scratch Off which has four different polishes.
> > It is designed for heavy scratch removal (successively finer grit), but
> > for "cobweb" scratch removal, using the finest polish should work very
> > well. It comes with a foam buffing pad designed to be put in a drill.
> >
> > Alex Peterson
> > Maple Grove, MN
> > RV6-A N66AP 397 hours
> > www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: roll on paint |
> >I had a fan pushing air in through 2 furnace filters.....
>
> I assume your fan was a sealed motor type. Do you have a source? How big
> was it to be effective? An open or Exposed motor can cause a KABOOM to
> occur with flammable paint fumes as the brushes are hanging out in the
> open, subject to producing sparks. Which means you don't want to use
> your K-Mart box fan.
I'm pretty sure most small box fans use brushless induction motors. In fact,
almost all small AC motors are brushless induction motors. There shouldn't
be any sparks. I used a couple of cheap box fans for my paint booth and they
worked great. One on the inlet side pushing through the filters and one on
the outlet side. I ran the outlet fan on high and the inlet fan on medium
and had a good draft without blowing out or sucking in the the polyethylene
walls of the booth. This can can happen if you only put a fan at one end
Curt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Smith <dave(at)rv10project.net> |
| Subject: | Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question |
Okay, I've been checking into Iridite 14-2 and found a local distributor
here in Spokane. When we talked about different application methods, he
mentioned that McDermid makes some kind of kit to go with it to make it
'brushable', although he was short on details. Upon further searching
of the archives and the net, I ran across a reference to an additive
that you put into 14-2 to make it brushable (sorry, can't remember the
name).
Do folks use 14-2 as is mixed, or are they putting in this additive for
when they want to brush/spray the solution?
Second question: the sales guy suggested taking the parts to a local
shop that specializes in dipping. He said that he knew business had
been slow for them, so they would probably cut a good deal. Has anybody
else used a shop like this? If so, how much did it cost you?
--
Dave
http://www.rv10project.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Roller applied paint finish |
Hal,
Even though all of the aircraft folks use a spray gun, it is
typical for the Imron class of paints to be applied by brush/roller for
marine uses.
In general, it's the same paint with a different thinner.
This web site give the Sterling paint methods for marine use.
http://www.detcomarine.com/sltopcoat.htm#BRUSH%20GLOSS%20APPLICATION
The EXACT same paint for aircraft spray application is described
here...
http://www.detcomarine.com/slacguide.htm#AIRCRAFT%20TOPCOAT%20APPLICATION
It is possible, but I don't know anyone who has done it.....
gil in Tucson
>
>Hal Rozema wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss,
> >self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird
> >
>So is everyone else. Use a spray gun.
>Linn
>
> >
> >Hal Rozema
> >VSTOL 701
> >
> >
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Roller applied paint finish |
Follow-up with respect to the posting (with no data) about brushing being
heavier..
Again, from the links below.....
Brushing (marine).....
"Practical coverage for brush application is between 200 and 400 square
feet per catalyzed gallon depending upon coating thickness."
Spraying (aircraft)
"Topcoat....................200-250 sq. ft. per mixed gal."
Looks like it's a toss-up, with brushing/rolling possibly lighter....
gil A
>
>Hal,
> Even though all of the aircraft folks use a spray gun, it is
>typical for the Imron class of paints to be applied by brush/roller for
>marine uses.
>
> In general, it's the same paint with a different thinner.
>
> This web site give the Sterling paint methods for marine use.
>
>http://www.detcomarine.com/sltopcoat.htm#BRUSH%20GLOSS%20APPLICATION
>
> The EXACT same paint for aircraft spray application is described
>here...
>
>http://www.detcomarine.com/slacguide.htm#AIRCRAFT%20TOPCOAT%20APPLICATION
>
> It is possible, but I don't know anyone who has done it.....
>
> gil in Tucson
>
> >
> >Hal Rozema wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >I'm looking for any experience and recommendations for a high gloss,
> > >self leveling roller applied finish for an aluminum bird
> > >
> >So is everyone else. Use a spray gun.
> >Linn
> >
> > >
> > >Hal Rozema
> > >VSTOL 701
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
>77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Painting the airframe |
I am considering painting my plane myself. From those who painted their own planes
I'd like to get some input into the type of spray booth they used or made
and any types of fixtures that were used to hold the various components.
I'm thinking that one of those car canopies would be big enough and I could enclose
it to make a fairly sanitary situation. I live in an airpark but there is
lots of construction going on and it is very dusty here so a spray booth of some
type is a must.
Thanks in advance.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Off Topic But Cool |
The Concorde made it's final flight today to BFI in Seattle to rest at the Boeing
Museum of Flight. A few buddies and I flew in from Harvey to watch the event.
It was like flying into KOSH! We circled for a half hour outside the pattern
before he could get us in. Just as we hit the down wind the tower announced
that we were the last ones that were cleared to land and he kicked everyone else
out. On final the Concorde made a pass directly over us. We promptly landed
and parked just in time to watch it land.
The tower had it's hands full today and did an outstanding job getting everyone
in safely. I don't think they expected all the traffic. After it was over I watched
several RV flights of two departing, almost as cool as seeing the Concorde...almost.
Karie Daniel
RV-7A QB
Sammamish, WA.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent plugging variations |
Kosta Lewis wrote:
> No injuries but the Bonanza was a write-off. Cause: Mud
>
>
>>daubers had clogged both fuel vents....
>>
>>
>
>Bummer.
>
>Well, let's put it this way: I have never had my fuel vents or hole of
>any kind (!) daubed with mud and I've been here for a really LONG time.
>I know "mud daubers" are certain kinds of wasps that I do not believe
>are indigenous to mountainous Colorado, although their habitat is listed
>as "throughout the United States". I still take a peek at those ol' fuel
>vents though, not to mention my pitot tube prior to every flight, just
>looking for them, or anything else that has decided to set up shop in
>there. 'Specially if the airplane has been 'sitting out' for two weeks,
>which it never does.
>
There are a couple of 'remedies', and come from the Grumman owners.
Depending on your vent size, these may or may not work.
1. A bent pipe cleaner. Fold in half and poke the loose ends in. Bend
the 'bent' part so the pipe cleaner won't push further into the vent.
You can leave them in, or remove before flight.
2. A bent paper clip installed to block the entrance to the vent.
3. A rainbird plastic filter, trimmed to fit.
Linn Walters
>
>Yikes. Not fly for two weeks in the summer? Never happen.
>
>Thanks for setting me straight. I'll be looking for them.
>
>Here's to a Zen approach to preflights.
>
>Michael
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting the airframe |
Darwin N. Barrie wrote:
>
>I am considering painting my plane myself. From those who painted their own planes
I'd like to get some input into the type of spray booth they used or made
and any types of fixtures that were used to hold the various components.
>
>I'm thinking that one of those car canopies would be big enough and I could enclose
it to make a fairly sanitary situation. I live in an airpark but there is
lots of construction going on and it is very dusty here so a spray booth of
some type is a must.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Darwin N. Barrie
>Chandler AZ
>Finish kit stuff
>
My spray booth is made of 1/2" electrical conduit, cut from 10' lengths
down to 9' so the 10' wide plastic fits over it. I use 90 degree
electrical fittings in the corners of the top. For all other fittings I
use a 1/2" PVC 'T' Buy some 1/2" schedule 80 (the thin stuff) pipe and
cut 2" lengths. Then slit the tubes. Fit them over the conduit and
press the PVC "T"s on the ends of the uprights and crosspieces across
the top. Buy the large ACCO butterfly clips and use these to clamp the
plastic to the frame. It'll take a lot of clips. Bore some small holes
where the uprights hit the floor and put a drywall screw in them and set
the legs over the drywall screw. This will prevent the legs from
sliding when you turn the fan on. In the back of the booth I have a box
that goes all the way across the back, and has rolled fiber-fill
attached to it for the filter.
This paint booth is simple to erect, low cost, and when you're done is
easily transported or stored when broken down.
Linn Walters
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerald Conrad <gwc(at)videotron.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich Prop Wanted |
Re: Colins Walker prop. This prop is a 70 x 72 wood prop with 150 hrs. I
only acquired this A/C 20 hrs ago so I don't know it's history. It did
fly out of a grass strip with a low time 75+ year old pilot. Upon
removing the black paint on the back side we found many chips that were
covered with paint only. The hairline crack is about 2" long & 1/4" from
the trailing edge starting at the tip. There was a large chip on the
back of the prop at the tip of the blade where the crack started. In
talking with Colin Walker in BC, he said that due to illness he was not
doing any prop work. His repair suggestion was to fill the crack with
epoxy glue. I'll pass that on to a Pro. I have aquired a new Sensenich
metal prop with immediate delivery & much cheaper than Van's. Many
people replied to my wanted add. Thank you all.
Gerry Conrad
________________________________________________________________________________
The key word, "pushing". The fan was pushing outside air through the 2
furnace filters to remove dust. Then the over spray air was cleaned up by
the exit filters which were ducted to the side door of the garage. The fan
was the floor mount type (not a box fan) has 3 power settings and moves
LARGE amounts of air. I belive all the ones that cost about 45~50 bucks and
can be purchased at Target and like stores are the same type. Oh and you
will need a LOT of tape and it must be taped inside and out, to make sure
it wont come apart later. Once the over spray gets on everything it makes
it very difficult to tape up again.
>
>>I had a fan pushing air in through 2 furnace filters.....
>
>I assume your fan was a sealed motor type. Do you have a source? How big
>was it to be effective? An open or Exposed motor can cause a KABOOM to
>occur with flammable paint fumes as the brushes are hanging out in the
>open, subject to producing sparks. Which means you don't want to use
>your K-Mart box fan.
>
>Michael
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Vent plugging variations |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I have the flappers normally seen on pitot tubes on my vent lines. Work
great so far, but not flying yet.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
linn walters said:
>
> Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>> No injuries but the Bonanza was a write-off. Cause: Mud
>>
>>
>>>daubers had clogged both fuel vents....
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Bummer.
>>
>>Well, let's put it this way: I have never had my fuel vents or hole of
>>any kind (!) daubed with mud and I've been here for a really LONG time.
>>I know "mud daubers" are certain kinds of wasps that I do not believe
>>are indigenous to mountainous Colorado, although their habitat is listed
>>as "throughout the United States". I still take a peek at those ol' fuel
>>vents though, not to mention my pitot tube prior to every flight, just
>>looking for them, or anything else that has decided to set up shop in
>>there. 'Specially if the airplane has been 'sitting out' for two weeks,
>>which it never does.
>>
> There are a couple of 'remedies', and come from the Grumman owners.
> Depending on your vent size, these may or may not work.
> 1. A bent pipe cleaner. Fold in half and poke the loose ends in. Bend
> the 'bent' part so the pipe cleaner won't push further into the vent.
> You can leave them in, or remove before flight.
>
> 2. A bent paper clip installed to block the entrance to the vent.
>
> 3. A rainbird plastic filter, trimmed to fit.
>
> Linn Walters
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: roll on paint |
>
>I built a in garage (2 car) paint booth out of PVC pipe and plastic sheet
What size pipe works best, Scott?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: roll on paint |
I used the standard size PVC water pipe....what is that, 1.0"...? That was a
bit flimsy but worked. Maybe the next size up would be best, whats that 1.5
inch? I also got a bag of 90 and 45 degree fittings and just went to work a lot
like tinker toys! If you used a fan to force air into the paint booth as I did
it will balloon up so tape it all together inside and out with 2 inch masking
tape. I highly recommend the furnace filters (6) for the out going air. The
largest (24x30?) ones that cost about 4~5 bucks each will stop 99% of the over
spray but will have to be replaced about 3 times.
I recommend at least 3 feet between whatever your painting and the "paint
booth"
wall.
>
>>
>>I built a in garage (2 car) paint booth out of PVC pipe and plastic sheet
>
>What size pipe works best, Scott?
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
Stein
Quick question.....do you use a foam buffing wheel rather than wool? If so,
are there different consistencies, (firm, med, soft, etc.?)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
Here's my canopy polishing "tricks".
Try to always "wet sand" the plexi, the results are much better.
If the scratches are deep (you can catch a fingernail on them), start out by
using 600grit wet/dry sandpaper and sand in one direction until the scratch
dissapears.
Move to 1000 grit, sanding the opposite direction until all the 600 grit
marks are gone.
Move then to 1500 grit, once again removing all previous mars,
Then, polish with a buffing wheel using 3M Liquid Polishing Compound
(Carquest/Napa, etc..).
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
Subject: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish/buff out some
micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting the airframe |
JOHN STARN wrote:
>
>Opp's....schedule 80 PVC is the extra thick, dark gray, threadable type. Sch
>40 is the thick lighter gray and the thin stuff is white sprinkler pipe.
>Like your idea, may have to use it. KABONG
>
It's the thin white stuff.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
If I'm starting on deeper "cobwebs" or scratches, I'll use a 'light-cut'
wool polishing pad, but if I'm finishing up, I use the foam polishing pads.
I dont recall which consitency I have, I just know they are the 3M foam
polishing pads (no deep cut).
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Mader
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
Stein
Quick question.....do you use a foam buffing wheel rather than wool? If so,
are there different consistencies, (firm, med, soft, etc.?)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
Here's my canopy polishing "tricks".
Try to always "wet sand" the plexi, the results are much better.
If the scratches are deep (you can catch a fingernail on them), start out by
using 600grit wet/dry sandpaper and sand in one direction until the scratch
dissapears.
Move to 1000 grit, sanding the opposite direction until all the 600 grit
marks are gone.
Move then to 1500 grit, once again removing all previous mars,
Then, polish with a buffing wheel using 3M Liquid Polishing Compound
(Carquest/Napa, etc..).
http://www.steinair.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
Subject: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish/buff out some
micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MARSHALL,STEPHANIE (HP-Corvallis,ex1)" <stephanie.marshall(at)HP.COM> |
ople in the terminal at the time.
| Subject: | This is a real story and has been verified with the author and |
pe
ople in the terminal at the time.
This is a real story and has been verified with the author and people in the
terminal at the time (see bottom of page).
Dear Friends and Family,
I hope that you will spare me a few minutes of your time to tell you about
something that I saw on Monday, October 27.
I had been attending a conference in Annapolis and was coming home on
Sunday. As you may recall, Los Angeles International Airport was closed on
Sunday, October 26, because of the fires that affected air traffic control.
Accordingly, my flight, and many others, were canceled and I wound up
spending a night in Baltimore.
My story begins the next day. When I went to check in at the United counter
Monday morning I saw a lot of soldiers home from Iraq. Most were very young
and all had on their desert camouflage uniforms. This was as change from
earlier, when they had to buy civilian clothes in Kuwait to fly home. It was
a visible reminder that we are in a war. It probably was pretty close to
what train terminals were like in World War II.
Many people were stopping the troops to talk to them, asking them questions
in the Starbucks line or just saying "Welcome Home." In addition to all the
flights that had been canceled on Sunday, the weather was terrible in
Baltimore and the flights were backed up. So, there were a lot of unhappy
people in the terminal trying to get home, but nobody that I saw gave the
soldiers a bad time.
By the afternoon, one plane to Denver had been delayed several hours. United
personnel kept asking for volunteers to give up their seats and take another
flight. They weren't getting many takers. Finally, a United spokeswoman got
on the PA and said this, "Folks. As you can see, there are a lot of soldiers
in the waiting area. They only have 14 days of leave and we're trying to get
them where they need to go without spending any more time in an airport then
they have to. We sold them all tickets, knowing we would oversell the
flight. If we can, we want to get them all on this flight. We want all the
soldiers to know that we respect what you're doing, we are here for you and
we love you."
At that, the entire terminal of cranky, tired, travel-weary people, a
cross-section of America, broke into sustained and heart-felt applause. The
soldiers looked surprised and very modest. Most of them just looked at their
boots. Many of us were wiping away tears.
And, yes, people lined up to take the later flight and all the soldiers went
to Denver on that flight.
That little moment made me proud to be an American, and also told me why we
will win this war.
If you want to send my little story on to your friends and family, feel
free. This is not some urban legend. I was there, I was part of it, I saw it
happen.
Will Ross
Administrative Judge
United States Department of Defense
(Verification of story is at http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/onleave.asp
)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>What is the reason for the fittings where the vents go through the
floor
>anyway? Why not just run the line through a bushing or grommet in a
>hole in the floor?
All manners of vile fumes could enter the cockpit if the holes were not
sealed: exhaust and oil breather would be enough. Ever seen the belly of
an airplane? Lots of junk there. You don't want that stuff in where you
are living.
Yuck.
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C Ennis" <sgtairdog(at)peoplepc.com> |
| Subject: | Weight of paint..roller Vs spray |
In one of the posts on 11/06 someone stated some stats for the weight of paint
being the same wether rolled, brushed or sprayed. The sq. ft. coverage was the
same per gallon. While that is probably true, please consider the overspray which
does not adhere to the airframe...versus what may drip off the brush or
roller onto the floor. I believe the advantages of spray painting include much
less weight and no doubt a much more consistant paint film thickness over the
whole airframe.
If someone could figure out how to get all the overspray to adhere to the airframe
instead of winding up in those airfilters, we could cut the cost of a paint
job in half.
Just my opinion...rebuttals?
Charlie Ennis RV-6A Working on the fiberglass. UGH
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: Polishing Canopy and scratch removal Question |
| From: | "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com> |
I should also say that when you switch to a finer grit/grade paper, your
sanding strokes need to be 90 degrees from the previous grit/grade.
Only go to the next finer grit/grade when you can no longer see any of
the scratches from the previous grit/grade.
What you're really doing is replacing scratches with finer scratches.
It's important that the coarser scratches are gone before going to a
finer grit/grade. By switching back and forth 90 degrees you can tell
if you sanded/polished enough before moving on.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: vonLinsowe, David
Subject: FW: Polishing Canopy and scratch removal Question
From experience I had with a Pitts canopy I would highly recommend the
Micro Mesh system then finish off with Finish 2001 in the bright green
and orange bottle.
I went from sanding with 320 wet-or-dry all through Micro Mesh's steps.
It turned out nice, but the Finish 2001 really did the trick. I use the
Finish 2001 all the time on the RV canopy for cleaning and de-hazing and
I haven't found anything that works as well! It does polish, but I also
think it somehow fills small scratches so they can't be seen at all. It
makes the Plexiglas invisible.
The problem I have now is nose prints on the canopy. People can't tell
where the canopy is so they run into it with their nose...
Dave
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
Subject: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish out some micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
****************************************************************************************
Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential
and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you.
****************************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Lightspeed + Mag Starter Switch? |
RV Builders/Flyers,
I'm looking for a good keyed starter/ignition switch solution to use with
toggle switches for one Lightspeed, one Slick mag configuration. If you
have the same setup and arrived at a happy, non-Van's mag switch solution,
your response will be appreciated.
NAPPA has two catalog pages of keyed ignition/starter switches with a
variety of contact or circuit arrangements. If you used or know these
Standard (domestic, non-Chinese) switches could you share recommended
catalog or part numbers for the growing number of two-type ignition RV
builders. Thanks much in advance.
Jack, Red Wing, MN
-8 panel, wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lightspeed + Mag Starter Switch? |
>RV Builders/Flyers,
>
>I'm looking for a good keyed starter/ignition switch solution to use with
>toggle switches for one Lightspeed, one Slick mag configuration. If you
>have the same setup and arrived at a happy, non-Van's mag switch solution,
>your response will be appreciated.
>
>NAPPA has two catalog pages of keyed ignition/starter switches with a
>variety of contact or circuit arrangements. If you used or know these
>Standard (domestic, non-Chinese) switches could you share recommended
>catalog or part numbers for the growing number of two-type ignition RV
>builders. Thanks much in advance.
>
>Jack, Red Wing, MN
>-8 panel, wiring
Jack,
As a dual ignition source RV8 driver, I found the most simple solution was
to just use toggle switches for both. I inverted one so they both are UP
when they are hot. Remember, the logic is opposite with this
installation....closed switch to fire up the Lightspeed, and open switch to
render the mag active. Key switches are of marginal value in light
airplanes. It's utterly simple for Joe Dirtbag to reach under the panel and
short out or open the wires to get the engine started. Digikey and Newark
should have various forms of keyed switches if you truly feel a key is
necessary.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
350 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of paint..roller Vs spray |
C Ennis wrote:
>
>In one of the posts on 11/06 someone stated some stats for the weight of paint
being the same wether rolled, brushed or sprayed. The sq. ft. coverage was the
same per gallon. While that is probably true, please consider the overspray
which does not adhere to the airframe...versus what may drip off the brush or
roller onto the floor. I believe the advantages of spray painting include much
less weight and no doubt a much more consistant paint film thickness over the
whole airframe.
> If someone could figure out how to get all the overspray to adhere to the airframe
instead of winding up in those airfilters, we could cut the cost of a paint
job in half.
> Just my opinion...rebuttals?
> Charlie Ennis RV-6A Working on the fiberglass. UGH
>
>
>
I agree with everything you said about spraying. Rolling just doesn't
put down a consistent thickness film. As to overspray, we know that the
standard high pressure air sprayer has an overabundance of it. We can
cut that down a little with HVLP, High Volume Low Pressure. If you
already have a compressor, then you'll spend more money on a
turbine-type 'compressor'. there are, however, HVLP guns that will hook
up to your high pressure compressor. The next best thing is
static-charged painting. I haven't tried this, but Harbor freight has a
powder coat system for $99 that might be adapted to a regular spray
gun. It places a charge on the powder (I think +) and the workpiece is
charged - ..... and the powder is attracted evenly on the workpiece.
Should work the same with paint. The car makers used a charged paint
system (with robotic sprayers, of course .... a bit of overkill for what
we need) and it seems OK.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal question |
??
The best thing I have found for new or old canopies is 3M Liquid Polish P/N
05993. Available at Auto stores that sell 3M products. This stuff works great
on restoring faded or scratched canopies, I have found nothing better.
Regards,
Bill Mahoney
Sherman, CT
RV6 N747W
Sherman, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weight of paint..roller Vs spray |
C Ennis wrote:
>
>In one of the posts on 11/06 someone stated some stats for the weight of paint
being the same wether rolled, brushed or sprayed. The sq. ft. coverage was the
same per gallon. While that is probably true, please consider the overspray
which does not adhere to the airframe...versus what may drip off the brush or
roller onto the floor. I believe the advantages of spray painting include much
less weight and no doubt a much more consistant paint film thickness over the
whole airframe.
> If someone could figure out how to get all the overspray to adhere to the airframe
instead of winding up in those airfilters, we could cut the cost of a paint
job in half.
> Just my opinion...rebuttals?
> Charlie Ennis RV-6A Working on the fiberglass. UGH
>
>
>
I agree with everything you said about spraying. Rolling just doesn't
put down a consistent thickness film. As to overspray, we know that the
standard high pressure air sprayer has an overabundance of it. We can
cut that down a little with HVLP, High Volume Low Pressure. If you
already have a compressor, then you'll spend more money on a
turbine-type 'compressor'. there are, however, HVLP guns that will hook
up to your high pressure compressor. The next best thing is
static-charged painting. I haven't tried this, but Harbor freight has a
powder coat system for $99 that might be adapted to a regular spray
gun. It places a charge on the powder (I think +) and the workpiece is
charged - ..... and the powder is attracted evenly on the workpiece.
Should work the same with paint. The car makers used a charged paint
system (with robotic sprayers, of course .... a bit of overkill for what
we need) and it seems OK.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Cowl Heat Protector Tape for RV8 |
Hello,
Roughly how much of Van's cowl heat protector tape do I need to order for the RV8?
180 HP
Thanks!
Vince Himsl
RV8 - SB Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
Larry,
DP40LF does not contain strontium chromate. If it's an automotive product, & is
not intended for use on aircraft aluminum. Strontium chromate is the replacement
for Zinc chromate used in Aerospace Mil Spec epoxy primers. I know that PPG
makes aircraft refinishing products. DeSoto is their Aviation Division. DeSoto
Desoprime HS is one product which is specifically formulated for use on aluminium.
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1&pdfID=4
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/desophs.pdf
Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy primers
are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not offer any special
ingredients to prevent corrosion.
The link below lists all the aviation primers available through PPG's DeSoto division.
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1
DeSoto's Super Koropon is another excellent product for aircarft use. You can use
anything you want on your aircraft. However, why not use a product specifically
designed for aircraft aluminum? Epoxy primers are not cheap, so why not get
the best product for the job?
Charlie Kuss
>
>That is why I used 2-part epoxy DP40LF. Also, when you go to do the finish
>painting, the DP48LF is a good primer for the PPG Concept paint. Great
>stuff. And by the way, the DP40/48LF primer can be thinned to make it flow
>out nice and smooth. Ask your PPG paint supplier about it. Great primer
>but you need a air supply to protect yourself or work outside where there is
>plenty of fresh air. And it does not dry instantly like some other primers.
>Painting in the fall is a good time due to bugs being less common with
>outside painting. However, I suggest you setup an inside paint booth large
>enough to do a detached wing and later the fuselage. That is the best way
>to go when you think about it seriously IMO.
>
>Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>On Finish Kit and painting things Viper Race Yellow over DP48LP primer
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
>
>
>>
>> In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
>>
>>
>> > For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize or
>> > Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that will
>> give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing
>epoxy does
>> provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
>> Dale Ensing
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Schematic Diagram Wanted |
Is there anyone one the list who has an internal schematic diagram of the PS
Engineering intercom? I have a model PS501 and want to trouble shoot beyond
the information provided by the manufacturer - they only give the
inputs/outputs without any internal diagrams.
Thanks...a long shot I know.
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
green board tested 8:25
two led's are dim, but it can't be detected. they are in the forward facing cluster
and they are so
bright that they are not noticed.....
will trouble shoot later when vision returns.
Now I do a beer......
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question |
Dave,
Why do you wish to brush the Iridite on? I've used Iridite 14-2 extensively on
my project. It's great stuff. If you purchase it in powder form, it 's cheap
enough to dip every part. I've dip tank treated every part on my 8A, including
the main longerons, my one piece wing main skins (9' 2 5/8" long) & the fuselage
tail cone skins.
Buying Alodine or Iridite in liquid form is WAY to expensive. Purchased in powder
form, it works out to under $2 per gallon. With 40 gallons, you can treat
the largest parts of your project and have enough to do all the parts. The dipping
method yields the best results with the least work. I have seen the same
info you refer to, but like you, could find no additional info. Sorry! :-(
Charlie Kuss
>
>Okay, I've been checking into Iridite 14-2 and found a local distributor
>here in Spokane. When we talked about different application methods, he
>mentioned that McDermid makes some kind of kit to go with it to make it
>'brushable', although he was short on details. Upon further searching
>of the archives and the net, I ran across a reference to an additive
>that you put into 14-2 to make it brushable (sorry, can't remember the
>name).
>
>Do folks use 14-2 as is mixed, or are they putting in this additive for
>when they want to brush/spray the solution?
>
>Second question: the sales guy suggested taking the parts to a local
>shop that specializes in dipping. He said that he knew business had
>been slow for them, so they would probably cut a good deal. Has anybody
>else used a shop like this? If so, how much did it cost you?
>--
>
>Dave
>http://www.rv10project.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: This is a real story and has been verified with the author |
and pe ople in the terminal at the time.
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
Yeah, that's the same reception I got coming back from Viet Nam. Would
you like me to drop napalm on some one?--maybe some women or a few
kids? I was actually quite accurate in bombing with the A4-Skyhawk
("Scooter"--to you guys that were there)--I can put a bunch of 500's in
your neighbor's house if you want or just mess up the whole yard with
Zunis--I mean they spent a lot of money to train me to do that.
Actually, there was ONE A4 pilot who shot down a MiG with his Zunis--it
was accidental but still a good day. And it was LT John McCain's A4
that started the big fire on the Forrestall (Forest Fire) when a
missile from an F-4 hit the bottom of his fuselage (and fuel tank, oh,
yeah, and then some bombs) and he had to run out on his refueling probe
to get out of the flames--they didn't have 0/0 ejection seats back then
(1967?). The worst thing was that the fire crew got blasted away when
the bombs started going off--and then they (the bombs) blew a hole in
the deck.
And all good stories have a happy ending. And an Administrative Judge
is (I think?--do I really?) retired.
Boyd.
RV-Super 6 (325 hp/IO-540)
On Thursday, November 6, 2003, at 02:55 PM, MARSHALL,STEPHANIE
(HP-Corvallis,ex1) wrote:
>
>
> This is a real story and has been verified with the author and people
> in the
> terminal at the time (see bottom of page).
>
> Dear Friends and Family,
>
> I hope that you will spare me a few minutes of your time to tell you
> about
> something that I saw on Monday, October 27.
>
> I had been attending a conference in Annapolis and was coming home on
> Sunday. As you may recall, Los Angeles International Airport was
> closed on
> Sunday, October 26, because of the fires that affected air traffic
> control.
> Accordingly, my flight, and many others, were canceled and I wound up
> spending a night in Baltimore.
>
> My story begins the next day. When I went to check in at the United
> counter
> Monday morning I saw a lot of soldiers home from Iraq. Most were very
> young
> and all had on their desert camouflage uniforms. This was as change
> from
> earlier, when they had to buy civilian clothes in Kuwait to fly home.
> It was
> a visible reminder that we are in a war. It probably was pretty close
> to
> what train terminals were like in World War II.
>
> Many people were stopping the troops to talk to them, asking them
> questions
> in the Starbucks line or just saying "Welcome Home." In addition to
> all the
> flights that had been canceled on Sunday, the weather was terrible in
> Baltimore and the flights were backed up. So, there were a lot of
> unhappy
> people in the terminal trying to get home, but nobody that I saw gave
> the
> soldiers a bad time.
>
> By the afternoon, one plane to Denver had been delayed several hours.
> United
> personnel kept asking for volunteers to give up their seats and take
> another
> flight. They weren't getting many takers. Finally, a United
> spokeswoman got
> on the PA and said this, "Folks. As you can see, there are a lot of
> soldiers
> in the waiting area. They only have 14 days of leave and we're trying
> to get
> them where they need to go without spending any more time in an
> airport then
> they have to. We sold them all tickets, knowing we would oversell the
> flight. If we can, we want to get them all on this flight. We want all
> the
> soldiers to know that we respect what you're doing, we are here for
> you and
> we love you."
>
> At that, the entire terminal of cranky, tired, travel-weary people, a
> cross-section of America, broke into sustained and heart-felt
> applause. The
> soldiers looked surprised and very modest. Most of them just looked at
> their
> boots. Many of us were wiping away tears.
>
> And, yes, people lined up to take the later flight and all the
> soldiers went
> to Denver on that flight.
>
> That little moment made me proud to be an American, and also told me
> why we
> will win this war.
>
> If you want to send my little story on to your friends and family, feel
> free. This is not some urban legend. I was there, I was part of it, I
> saw it
> happen.
>
> Will Ross
> Administrative Judge
> United States Department of Defense
>
> (Verification of story is at
> http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/onleave.asp
> )
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FW: Polishing Canopy and scratch removal Question |
| From: | "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com> |
(I don't think the first time I sent this it went through, so I'm
retrying...)
I should also say that when you switch to a finer grit/grade paper, your
sanding strokes need to be 90 degrees from the previous grit/grade.
Only go to the next finer grit/grade when you can no longer see any of
the scratches from the previous grit/grade.
What you're really doing is replacing scratches with finer scratches.
It's important that the coarser scratches are gone before going to a
finer grit/grade. By switching back and forth 90 degrees you can tell
if you sanded/polished enough before moving on.
Dave
-----Original Message-----
From: vonLinsowe, David
Subject: FW: Polishing Canopy and scratch removal Question
From experience I had with a Pitts canopy I would highly recommend the
Micro Mesh system then finish off with Finish 2001 in the bright green
and orange bottle.
I went from sanding with 320 wet-or-dry all through Micro Mesh's steps.
It turned out nice, but the Finish 2001 really did the trick. I use the
Finish 2001 all the time on the RV canopy for cleaning and de-hazing and
I haven't found anything that works as well! It does polish, but I also
think it somehow fills small scratches so they can't be seen at all. It
makes the Plexiglas invisible.
The problem I have now is nose prints on the canopy. People can't tell
where the canopy is so they run into it with their nose...
Dave
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
Subject: RV-List: Re: Polishing Canopies and micro scratch removal
question ??
What have RV-ers been using to polish canopies? I have been using Plexus
with good results as a cleaner/polisher. I need to polish out some micro
fine scratches so I am wondering what others are using to do this? At
the AOPA convention this weekend I purchased a Flitz polishing kit.....I
am not thrilled with the results on plastic. I realize that micro-mesh
and other similar companies have a product...I am wondering what else is
out there that polishes out micro scratches and all that. There are
canopies on RV's at Oshkosh that look like Todd just took them out of
the mold-there so clean and scratch free...
****************************************************************************************
Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential
and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you.
****************************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
I second Charlie's comments and would add that it is easy to spray. It's
been on the inside of my 4 for 6 years and looks like the day it was
painted. I know the origninal poster, Larry, was talking about a primer
which would be top-coated on the exterior. A good feature of the Super
Koropon is that it does not require top coating when used on the interior
structure.
The list of aerospace vehicles that are interior primed with DeSoto Super
Koropon is long including many airlines, the space shuttle, Gulfstreams
etc.
Dick Sipp
RV 4 N250DS
RV10 N110DV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
>
> Larry,
> DP40LF does not contain strontium chromate. If it's an automotive product,
& is not intended for use on aircraft aluminum. Strontium chromate is the
replacement for Zinc chromate used in Aerospace Mil Spec epoxy primers. I
know that PPG makes aircraft refinishing products. DeSoto is their Aviation
Division. DeSoto Desoprime HS is one product which is specifically
formulated for use on aluminium.
>
>
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1&pdfID=4
>
> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/desophs.pdf
>
> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>
> The link below lists all the aviation primers available through PPG's
DeSoto division.
>
>
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1
>
> DeSoto's Super Koropon is another excellent product for aircarft use. You
can use anything you want on your aircraft. However, why not use a product
specifically designed for aircraft aluminum? Epoxy primers are not cheap, so
why not get the best product for the job?
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> >That is why I used 2-part epoxy DP40LF. Also, when you go to do the
finish
> >painting, the DP48LF is a good primer for the PPG Concept paint. Great
> >stuff. And by the way, the DP40/48LF primer can be thinned to make it
flow
> >out nice and smooth. Ask your PPG paint supplier about it. Great primer
> >but you need a air supply to protect yourself or work outside where there
is
> >plenty of fresh air. And it does not dry instantly like some other
primers.
> >Painting in the fall is a good time due to bugs being less common with
> >outside painting. However, I suggest you setup an inside paint booth
large
> >enough to do a detached wing and later the fuselage. That is the best
way
> >to go when you think about it seriously IMO.
> >
> >Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
> >On Finish Kit and painting things Viper Race Yellow over DP48LP primer
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >> top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> > For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize
or
> >> > Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that
will
> >> give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing
> >epoxy does
> >> provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
> >> Dale Ensing
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
Stein wrote
"I will be selling it on my website starting next week, and the price will be
$.50 cents per foot. The stainless tape is 3" with the heavy duty Acrylic
adhesive, exactly what works well on the leading edge of the -4,6,7, & 8 flaps.
Cheers, Stein Bruch, http://www.steinair.com "
Is this not likely to be of use to 9 builders?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
Larry,
The same PPG paint dealer should be able to sell you DP70
epoxy primer, which IS MIL-Spec. qualified (the MIL-P-23377 spec) and does
contain strontium chromate for Alum. protection.... and doesn't need a top
coat....
gil in Tucson
>
>Larry,
>DP40LF does not contain strontium chromate. If it's an automotive product,
>& is not intended for use on aircraft aluminum. Strontium chromate is the
>replacement for Zinc chromate used in Aerospace Mil Spec epoxy primers. I
>know that PPG makes aircraft refinishing products. DeSoto is their
>Aviation Division. DeSoto Desoprime HS is one product which is
>specifically formulated for use on aluminium.
>
>http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1&pdfID=4
>
>http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/desophs.pdf
>
> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
> primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
> offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>
>The link below lists all the aviation primers available through PPG's
>DeSoto division.
>
>http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1
>
>DeSoto's Super Koropon is another excellent product for aircarft use. You
>can use anything you want on your aircraft. However, why not use a product
>specifically designed for aircraft aluminum? Epoxy primers are not cheap,
>so why not get the best product for the job?
>
>Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> >That is why I used 2-part epoxy DP40LF. Also, when you go to do the finish
> >painting, the DP48LF is a good primer for the PPG Concept paint. Great
> >stuff. And by the way, the DP40/48LF primer can be thinned to make it flow
> >out nice and smooth. Ask your PPG paint supplier about it. Great primer
> >but you need a air supply to protect yourself or work outside where there is
> >plenty of fresh air. And it does not dry instantly like some other primers.
> >Painting in the fall is a good time due to bugs being less common with
> >outside painting. However, I suggest you setup an inside paint booth large
> >enough to do a detached wing and later the fuselage. That is the best way
> >to go when you think about it seriously IMO.
> >
> >Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
> >On Finish Kit and painting things Viper Race Yellow over DP48LP primer
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >> top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> > For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize or
> >> > Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that will
> >> give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing
> >epoxy does
> >> provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
> >> Dale Ensing
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SoCAL RV RendezVous is GO!!! |
RV Enthusiasts,
The weather forecast for this Saturday, Nov. 8, is looking fine for Cable
Airport (Upland, CA), and our SoCAL RV RendezVous is GO!!! In fact, the weather
forecast looks good from San Luis Obispo in the north to all points east and
south. We would expect a lot of fly-ins from Arizona, Southern Nevada, and
Southern California! We are expecting weather similar to last Saturday - -
Please see Photos 25 to 31 in our group's photo album at
http://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCAL-RVlist/lst. Last Saturday was a very pleasant,
super-visibility day!
Once Again: Our SoCAL RV RendezVous "get-together" is an opportunity for RV
enthusiasts (flyers, builders, potential builders, friends, and family) to
enjoy RV camaraderie, gawk at some nice RVs, swap stories, SWAP EXTRA RV PARTS,
BUY A RENDEZVOUS T-SHIRT, have a little something to eat and drink, enjoy the
sunshine, etc., etc. - - Just a straightforward, informal "good time" for all!
We'll be ready for arrivals starting at 9 am, and the RendezVous goes until 4
pm.
Here are the details:
EVENT: SoCAL RV RendezVous
DATE: Saturday, Nov. 8, 2003
TIME: 9am to 4pm
LOCATION: Cable Airport (KCCB), Upland, CA (http://www.cableairport.com)
Cable Airport's manger, Chuck Barnett, is graciously allowing us to use the
old north-south crosswind runway as the site of our fly-in. The old runway is
now a taxiway located at the northwest corner of the airport just north of the
fuel pit and west of the north hangars.
REGISTRATION:
When you arrive, please sign-in at our registration table and pick-up your
badge. If you already have an EAA badge, you are encouraged to wear it as well.
RV FLYERS:
Our SoCAL RV RendezVous is a great opportunity for you to meet your fellow RV
flyers/builders, enjoy some great RV camaraderie, and share your RV
experiences and knowledge. Since this is an RV-focused "get together," everyone
attending will be an enthusiastic "RVer" in some way! Many RV builders, potential
builders, and other RV enthusiasts will be attending the RendezVous, and we
encourage you to encourage them! We're sure that they will be very interested
in
your building experiences and will enjoy hearing about your RV flying.
Note: If you decide that you want to give a few builders/enthusiasts a short
ride, that would be great, but we want to emphasize that giving rides is
completely optional on your part. You are certainly not obligated to do so. Our
main goal is to have you fly-in, show-off your RV, share your building and
flight experiences, and Have Fun! Only offer a short ride if you happen to feel
like it! If not, don't worry about it! Just relax and Have Fun with your
fellow "RVers!"
RV BUILDERS, POTENTIAL BUILDERS, and RV ENTHUSIASTS:
Note that this "get together" will be a particularly great opportunity for RV
builders, and potential builders/enthusiasts, to meet experienced RV
builders/flyers and see their beautiful aircraft both in-flight and at the RV parking
area. You will be able to ask questions and gain valuable knowledge
concerning the RV building process, the installation and checkout of various aircraft
systems, and RV performance and flight characteristics. A few RV flyers may
offer some lucky builders/enthusiasts a short encouragement/motivation ride, but
this opportunity is strictly at the discretion of the individual RV
flyers/owners. We would expect builders/enthusiasts to be courteous and not solicit
any of the RV flyers/owners for a ride - - Please wait to be asked. Many RV
flyers will prefer to just sit, relax, and talk rather than give rides.
Builders interested in rides should display their Van's builder's number and
RV model under construction on their registration badge and have a pilot's
license. Potential builders may also be lucky enough to fly - - Please note "RV
Builder???" on your badge and have your pilot's license handy. Also,
"Significant Others" (the real decision-makers!) may be able to get a ride.
If
offered a flight, builders and potential builders should offer to help pay for
avgas.
FLY-IN PROCEDURES:
Cable Airport is a family-owned, RV-friendly airport with easy VFR access
from the northwest and northeast (north of Ontario) as well as relatively easy
access from the south and southwest past Corona and west of the Chino and
Brackett Airports. Be sure to contact the Chino and Brackett towers for permission
to fly through their airspace if you so chose. Please comply with all
airspace restrictions and steer-clear of Ontario's airspace unless you're talking
to
ATC. We definitely want to have a violation-free day and maintain good
relations with all air traffic control facilities/personnel.
Note: A moving map GPS with airspace boundary depiction is highly
recommended.
SoCAL airspace permits good VFR access, but you do need to know exactly where
and how high you are relative to controlled airspace. Also, please keep a
wary eye out for airborne traffic. The traffic is not as thick as popularly
rumored, but SoCAL is a nice place to fly for all, and many RVs will be flying
into Cable as well.
Cable is an uncontrolled airport but does have published recommended VFR
arrival and departure procedures which you should review (see Cable's website and
your flight guide). Also, please be neighbor-friendly by keeping noise down.
VFR arrival and departure procedures for Cable airport can be found at
http://www.cableairport.com/images/vfr24.gif for runway 24 (most likely runway with
prevailing winds from the west) and at
http://www.cableairport.com/images/vfr6.gif for runway 6.
Please note that the Cable traffic pattern is left turns only - - No
straight-ins or outs! No formation takeoffs, No buzz jobs, No fooling around!
Flybys
are restricted to pattern altitude, and flyby aircraft must yield to any
aircraft in the standard traffic pattern. Be particularly watchful for crosswind
approach traffic!
PLEASE NO LOW FLYBYS!
All FARs must be observed. An FAA representative who is also building an RV
will be on the airport and could potentially issue violations for unsafe
actions. If you wish to do a flyby, please remain at pattern altitude and watch
carefully for traffic.
After landing, you will exit off the runway to the NORTH side of the runway
then taxi WEST. As you taxi westbound, please look for our RV RendezVous taxi
and parking guides - - they'll have vests, wands, etc. and will help direct
you to the next available parking spot.
You might want to bring your own wheel chocks as we will be parking RVs on
the old crosswind runway/taxiway that has a slight slope. We will have wooden
chocks available if you forget yours! Non-RV aircraft will be parked parallel
to and facing the active runway near the RV parking. Tie-down chains are
available for those aircraft parking along the runway.
FORMATION FLYING:
If you are interested in formation flying (who isn't?), please contact Gary
Sobek for further information and coordination: RV6_Flyer(at)hotmail.com. You
must be a qualified, experienced RV formation flyer and comply with all Cable
Airport flight procedures/restrictions as well as FAA regulations.
WEATHER ALTERNATES:
In the unlikely event that Cable Airport is not sunny and clear on the
morning of Nov. 1 as usual, our VFR weather alternates are: #1 Agua Dulce Airpark
(L70) and #2: Apple Valley (KAPV). Both Agua Dulce and Apple Valley are well
equipped with ramp space, food, and avgas to handle lots of fly-ins.
If Cable is IFR, Paul and Victoria Rosales (cell 661 433-6056) will be at
Agua Dulce to greet arrivals there. Paul and Victoria will be in contact with
the RendezVous crew at Cable to get the latest weather information. We don't
plan to have anyone stationed at Apple Valley, but Paul and Victoria will fly
there if Agua Dulce is socked in (which only happens "once in a blue moon!").
NOTE: All drive-ins should proceed to Cable Airport, because we will have
Cable-stationed RVs on-hand regardless of weather.
DRIVE-IN DIRECTIONS:
Ground-bound RV enthusiasts, particularly RV builders and potential builders,
are encouraged to attend! Cable Airport is located north of the I-10 freeway
in Upland, CA. Take I-10's Central Avenue exit NORTH past Montclair Plaza.
At the end of Central Ave. (1.3 miles from I-10) turn RIGHT (EAST) on Foothill
Blvd. (Historic Route 66). (There's a traffic light there.) Travel EAST on
Foothill to the next traffic light. Turn LEFT (NORTH) at the light onto
Benson Ave. (There's a "76" Gasoline/Car Wash Plaza on the left, and on the right
you'll see a Carl's Jr. and an "Old-Style" McDonald's across the
intersection.)
Continue NORTH on Benson Ave. past the Lowe's on your left and PAST the main
entrance to Cable Airport at the 13TH Street (first) traffic light. Continue
PAST the second traffic light and you should see a Fire Station on the right.
After you pass the Fire Station (the runway will be on your left), you will
make a LEFT (WEST) turn at the next opportunity (Howard Access Road) onto Cable
Airport.
There is a sign that says "Holliday Rock Quarry" at this entrance. Drive
through the gate onto the airport. Continue WEST via the taxiway between the
hangars and keep your speed down to 5 mph or less.
AIRCRAFT HAVE THE RIGHT OF WAY!
Give way to aircraft by pulling over to the right and stopping until the
aircraft passes. Also, be careful to slow down before any open hangar to make
sure that aircraft, people, or vehicles are not exiting the hangar. At the end
of the row of hangars, you will be directed to parking. Look for the SoCAL RV
signs and our RendezVous parking guides.
OVERNIGHT STAY:
If you are flying in from a distance and plan to stay Friday and/or Saturday
night, we would recommend the Western Inn located at 1191 East Foothill Blvd.,
Upland, CA approximately 4 to 5 miles from Cable. Their web address is
http://www.venquest.com/westerninnupland. The Western Inn is clean and accessible
with restaurants nearby. The Western Inn has a "Cable Airport" discount of
$59 for a single king or two queen beds and $69-$79 for more upscale
accommodations. These are excellent prices for the Southern California area.
Note:
Cable Airport's management has confirmed Western Inn's low $59 rate for either
call-in or internet reservations - - make sure to ask for the "Cable Airport"
discount!
The Western Inn's reservation phone number is 800-726-2955 (Internet Hotel
Hotline), and their local number is 909-949-4800. Reservations can also be made
directly through Western Inn's website. The Western Inn does not have Cable
Airport pickup, but our SoCAL group might be able to provide complimentary
ground transportation for you. Please contact Bill Palmer at wmpalm(at)aol.com as
soon as possible to request complimentary transportation between Cable Airport
and the Western Inn. Also, there are two taxi companies serving the area:
Yellow Cab, 909-622-1313, and Dell Cab, 800-340-8294.
FOOD and DRINK:
For morning arrivals, we will have FREE donuts, rolls, juice, and coffee.
For lunch, the Cable EAA Chapter will have their food booth with reasonably
priced food and drink. Cable also has an excellent airport restaurant, Maniac
Mike's Caf=E9, for more "gourmet" fare at reasonable prices. We will have a
shuttle van to take people to the south side of the airport where Maniac Mike's
Caf=E9 is located.
Please DO NOT walk across the runway but please DO use our shuttle van.
SHELTER, SEATING, SWAPS, AND OTHER STUFF:
Shade and seating will be under the new 60 X 60 shade hangar that is used as
an aircraft wash rack. We will have the food booth, Clearair Tools tool demo
area, and an area to SELL/SWAP ANY OF YOUR RV-RELATED PARTS.
RENDEZVOUS T-SHIRTS!!!
We will also have a TEE SHIRT vendor on site to sell custom 2003 SoCAL RV
RendezVous shirts - - Please see Photos 27 and 28 in our photo album. THE
T-SHIRTS ARE VERY NICE!!! LOOKIN' GOOD!!!
Note: You might want to bring some suntan lotion, or sunscreen, if you plan
to do a lot of gawking at the RVs out on the ramp!
SAFETY AND SECURITY:
Our Safety and Security Officer is Gary Hart. In case of any problems, Gary
will be able to contact local law enforcement, the local fire department,
healthcare, etc.
Note: Gary Hart has the "Final Word" with respect to RendezVous safety! All
RendezVous participants are expected to follow Gary's guidance to ensure a
Safe, Good Time!
Important: We have no "event" insurance, since this is an informal "get
together" for RV folks only and is not a "public" fly-in, so you're self-insured.
All flying and ground operations are at your own risk/insurance. Although
Gary, and other SoCAL volunteers, will be available to help you, your safety and
security is ultimately your own responsibility!
QUESTIONS:
If you have any questions, please contact Bill Palmer at wmpalm(at)aol.com, and
we'll try to provide an answer, or at least an opinion! Note: Our responses
are at your own risk!
SUMMARY:
No Judging, No Trophies, No Schedule, No Fees, No Hassles - - Just Mutual RV
Admiration and FUN!
We'll look forward to seeing you on Saturday, Nov.8 at Cable Airport!!! RVs
FOREVER!!!
Best Regards,
Gary Sobek
SoCAL RV RendezVous Chairman
EAA Technical Counselor, AB DAR-elect
RV-6 N157GS
Bill Palmer
RendezVous Marketing and Communications Officer
RV-8A QB In-Progress
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Smith <dave(at)rv10project.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question |
Charlie, I guess my thinking is that with the limited lifespan (re-use)
that I'd be spending a lot of time recovering the powder (not sure how
that's done yet). I've read msgs that talked about using an air stone
(aquarium type) to keep the solution good, but does that really work? I
don't mind building a dip tank so much, as having to continually recover
& re-mix the solution. (Perhaps recovery is so simple I'm dreading it
for no reason, dunno).
I'm planning to hook up with the local EAA Chapter at the meeting in a
week, and hope to find somebody that will either sell a couple of
pounds, or wants to split some, since I've heard that a 10 lb tin goes a
LONG way. Iridite sounds like the way to go (for me, anyways) vs. the
liquid options. If I can keep the solution in the dip tank workable, it
would be perfect.
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>Dave,
> Why do you wish to brush the Iridite on? I've used Iridite 14-2 extensively on
my project. It's great stuff. If you purchase it in powder form, it 's cheap
enough to dip every part. I've dip tank treated every part on my 8A, including
the main longerons, my one piece wing main skins (9' 2 5/8" long) & the fuselage
tail cone skins.
> Buying Alodine or Iridite in liquid form is WAY to expensive. Purchased in powder
form, it works out to under $2 per gallon. With 40 gallons, you can treat
the largest parts of your project and have enough to do all the parts. The dipping
method yields the best results with the least work. I have seen the same
info you refer to, but like you, could find no additional info. Sorry! :-(
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Okay, I've been checking into Iridite 14-2 and found a local distributor
>>here in Spokane. When we talked about different application methods, he
>>mentioned that McDermid makes some kind of kit to go with it to make it
>>'brushable', although he was short on details. Upon further searching
>>of the archives and the net, I ran across a reference to an additive
>>that you put into 14-2 to make it brushable (sorry, can't remember the
>>name).
>>
>>Do folks use 14-2 as is mixed, or are they putting in this additive for
>>when they want to brush/spray the solution?
>>
>>Second question: the sales guy suggested taking the parts to a local
>>shop that specializes in dipping. He said that he knew business had
>>been slow for them, so they would probably cut a good deal. Has anybody
>>else used a shop like this? If so, how much did it cost you?
>>--
>>
>>Dave
>>http://www.rv10project.net
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Dave
http://www.rv10project.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Why can one buy powdered Alodine |
I have read this thread with interest. I have heard that Alodine/Iridite is
available as a powder, but I have been unable to locate a source. Any leads
(especially in the East) would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Dean Pichon
>From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question
>Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:07:52 -0500
>
>
>Dave,
> Why do you wish to brush the Iridite on? I've used Iridite 14-2
>extensively on my project. It's great stuff. If you purchase it in powder
>form, it 's cheap enough to dip every part. I've dip tank treated every
>part on my 8A, including the main longerons, my one piece wing main skins
>(9' 2 5/8" long) & the fuselage tail cone skins.
> Buying Alodine or Iridite in liquid form is WAY to expensive. Purchased
>in powder form, it works out to under $2 per gallon. With 40 gallons, you
>can treat the largest parts of your project and have enough to do all the
>parts. The dipping method yields the best results with the least work. I
>have seen the same info you refer to, but like you, could find no
>additional info. Sorry! :-(
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
> >
> >Okay, I've been checking into Iridite 14-2 and found a local distributor
> >here in Spokane. When we talked about different application methods, he
> >mentioned that McDermid makes some kind of kit to go with it to make it
> >'brushable', although he was short on details. Upon further searching
> >of the archives and the net, I ran across a reference to an additive
> >that you put into 14-2 to make it brushable (sorry, can't remember the
> >name).
> >
> >Do folks use 14-2 as is mixed, or are they putting in this additive for
> >when they want to brush/spray the solution?
> >
> >Second question: the sales guy suggested taking the parts to a local
> >shop that specializes in dipping. He said that he knew business had
> >been slow for them, so they would probably cut a good deal. Has anybody
> >else used a shop like this? If so, how much did it cost you?
> >--
> >
> >Dave
> >http://www.rv10project.net
> >
> >
>
>
Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus
scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question |
Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>Dave,
> Why do you wish to brush the Iridite on? I've used Iridite 14-2 extensively on
my project. It's great stuff. If you purchase it in powder form, it 's cheap
enough to dip every part. I've dip tank treated every part on my 8A, including
the main longerons, my one piece wing main skins (9' 2 5/8" long) & the fuselage
tail cone skins.
> Buying Alodine or Iridite in liquid form is WAY to expensive. Purchased in powder
form, it works out to under $2 per gallon.
>
Where do you get it in powder form? I've searched and came up empty.
If a local source, please find out if they'll ship.
Linn Walters
> With 40 gallons, you can treat the largest parts of your project and have enough
to do all the parts. The dipping method yields the best results with the least
work. I have seen the same info you refer to, but like you, could find no
additional info. Sorry! :-(
>Charlie Kuss
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>
Thanks very much Charlie for the new information on primers. I am not sure
you are right on this. I look at the product description on PPG DPLF epoxy
primer and it reads, "DPLF.....provides an excellent corrosion resistant
primer. This primer provides excellent adhesions to many types of properly
prepared metal, fiberglass and aluminum substrates, as well as plastic
fillers."
And it is a compatible base surface for PPG Concept paint. I don't see
where DeSoto Desoprime HS is acceptable in that regard.
What is it about acceptability of a paint on a plane that is different from
a car? The folks at Nascar use PPG Concept paints on many race cars that
routinely go over 200 MPH although I don't know what the primer is. I
assume they paint on steel and not aluminum but they may be painting on
composite too. I would like to hear more about why the primer is not
designed for the plane. Thanks for more information.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
>
> Larry,
> DP40LF does not contain strontium chromate. If it's an automotive product,
& is not intended for use on aircraft aluminum. Strontium chromate is the
replacement for Zinc chromate used in Aerospace Mil Spec epoxy primers. I
know that PPG makes aircraft refinishing products. DeSoto is their Aviation
Division. DeSoto Desoprime HS is one product which is specifically
formulated for use on aluminium.
>
>
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1&pdfID=4
>
> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/desophs.pdf
>
> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>
> The link below lists all the aviation primers available through PPG's
DeSoto division.
>
>
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1
>
> DeSoto's Super Koropon is another excellent product for aircarft use. You
can use anything you want on your aircraft. However, why not use a product
specifically designed for aircraft aluminum? Epoxy primers are not cheap, so
why not get the best product for the job?
>
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> >That is why I used 2-part epoxy DP40LF. Also, when you go to do the
finish
> >painting, the DP48LF is a good primer for the PPG Concept paint. Great
> >stuff. And by the way, the DP40/48LF primer can be thinned to make it
flow
> >out nice and smooth. Ask your PPG paint supplier about it. Great primer
> >but you need a air supply to protect yourself or work outside where there
is
> >plenty of fresh air. And it does not dry instantly like some other
primers.
> >Painting in the fall is a good time due to bugs being less common with
> >outside painting. However, I suggest you setup an inside paint booth
large
> >enough to do a detached wing and later the fuselage. That is the best
way
> >to go when you think about it seriously IMO.
> >
> >Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
> >On Finish Kit and painting things Viper Race Yellow over DP48LP primer
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
> >
> >
> >>
> >> In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> >> top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
> >>
> >>
> >> > For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize
or
> >> > Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >> Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that
will
> >> give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing
> >epoxy does
> >> provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
> >> Dale Ensing
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | a flyer <aflyer(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowl Heat Protector Tape for RV8 |
You need about 6 ft. It does not stretch at all, so you end up cutting it
into strips to make it conform to the compound curves in the cowl. This
makes for a lot of little pieces left over. You only need to cover the
bottom, and sides, near the exhaust tubes.
John Huft
RV8 135 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cowl Heat Protector Tape for RV8
>
> Hello,
>
> Roughly how much of Van's cowl heat protector tape do I need to order for
the RV8?
> 180 HP
>
> Thanks!
> Vince Himsl
> RV8 - SB Finish
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cheap, easy paint booth |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP
>I am considering painting my plane myself. From those who painted their own planes
I'd like to get some input into the type of spray booth they used or made
and any types of fixtures that were used to hold the various components.
.....
>My spray booth is made of 1/2" electrical conduit, cut from 10' lengths
down to 9' so the 10' wide plastic fits over it. I use 90 degree
electrical fittings in the corners of the top. For all other fittings I
use a 1/2" PVC 'T' Buy some 1/2" schedule 80 (the thin stuff) pipe and
cut 2" lengths. Then slit the tubes. Fit them over the conduit and
press the PVC "T"s on the ends of the uprights and crosspieces across
the top. Buy the large ACCO butterfly clips and use these to clamp the
plastic to the frame. It'll take a lot of clips. Bore some small holes
where the uprights hit the floor and put a drywall screw in them and set
the legs over the drywall screw. This will prevent the legs from
sliding when you turn the fan on. In the back of the booth I have a box
that goes all the way across the back, and has rolled fiber-fill
attached to it for the filter.
This paint booth is simple to erect, low cost, and when you're done is
easily transported or stored when broken down.
Linn Walters
SNIP
Linn's idea is just fine, but here's another one that might save you a BUNCH of
time and money.
Go to the local junk tool store, online, or flea market and buy one of the 10'X
20' garage tents that sell for about $100. It comes with EVERYTHING in one box.
It's what I used and it is just the right size for painting RVs.
Here's a few links that shows the tent in action.
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-10-02/painting%20tent.jpg
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-10-02/fuselage%20painting%201.jpg
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-10-02/fuselage%20painting%203.jpg
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Everything%20else.htm or just read the entire, detailed painting process on this page. It's worth reading if you are painting your own plane. If you're not painting your own plane... you big sissy. LOL. You don't have to thank me.... just send cash. ;-)
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket, N540VF, Crazy Horse
<http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob G" <f1rocketboy(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Homebuilder parts |
Hi builders,
I recently finished my F1 Rocket. Along the way, I needed some special parts. As
a bunch of other homebuilders also need these parts, I made plenty of them and
made them available on my newly formed website to subsidize my new 14 GPH AVGAS
habit.
Stuff includes F1 Canopy covers, Control stick leather boots and matching anodized
trim rings, Bendix RSA-5 injector adapters, and soon, an external power unit
kit for all homebuilts.
If you feel like surfing, check out the cosmic stuff (homemade EFIS and more) I
have going at ..
www.F1-Rocketboy.com ...Aviation entertainment for homebuilders. Constantly being updated.
Warmest regards,
Rocketboy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Sundberg" <david_fs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Backup Instruments |
Has anyone flown the Garmin 196 Panel Screen under actual or simulated IFR conditions?
Is it reasonable to plan on it as an emergency-only backup instrument
to get you down safely if the rest of the panel goes dark? I've been scratching
my head over a panel layout and would appreciate some input. My main concern
is with what I realistically need for backup. I'm not IFR rated, but plan
to be shortly after completing my 7, so I want the panel to be at least minimally
IFR capable. The current plan is for:
GRT EFIS
GRT EIS
GTX 327
SL30
GPS196
DigiTrak
AlTrak
Vert. Card Compass
AOA
I may add an IFR GPS later for GPS approaches, but should this panel be sufficient
for "Light (and safe) IFR"?
Dave
Alpharetta, GA
RV-7A - Panel & Wire
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | more painting tips |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP The key word, "pushing". The fan was pushing outside air through the 2
furnace filters to remove dust. Then the over spray air was cleaned up by
the exit filters which were ducted to the side door of the garage. The fan
was the floor mount type (not a box fan) has 3 power settings and moves
LARGE amounts of air. I belive all the ones that cost about 45~50 bucks and
can be purchased at Target and like stores are the same type. Oh and you
will need a LOT of tape and it must be taped inside and out, to make sure
it wont come apart later. Once the over spray gets on everything it makes
it very difficult to tape up again.
>
>>I had a fan pushing air in through 2 furnace filters.....
>
>I assume your fan was a sealed motor type. Do you have a source? How big
>was it to be effective? An open or Exposed motor can cause a KABOOM to
>occur with flammable paint fumes as the brushes are hanging out in the
>open, subject to producing sparks. Which means you don't want to use
>your K-Mart box fan. SNIP
*********************************
I saw this tip years ago. Take your cheap box fan outside. Plug the fan into
a 50' cord, turn the fan on. After making sure the other end is unplugged, pour
a quart of gasoline on the fan and motor. Go plug the other end into the wall
outlet. If there is a giant fireball, don't use that fan. Continue testing
until you find an explosion proof fan.
Seriously though, many box fans work just fine for this. The key is to keep the
air moving, not to move giant amounts. You just want enough flow to move the
overspray out. And making a totally airtight spray box isn't really necessary
for 95% of us who could care less about Oshkosh trophies. You can get a very
nice paint job anyway. It's more important how you apply the paint than whether
an occasional dust particle gets in it.
As I implied above, as far as dust filters go... I didn't use any. None whatsoever.
But I live in the country and have no nearby cars to get overspray on.
Filtering the air coming into the paint booth isn't as necessary as some might
lead you to believe, just screen out the bugs. I mean, seriously, is your paint
job going to be dust free because you spent 3 hours setting up a filtration
system? I doubt it.
To eliminate most dirt in your paint:
1) vacuum the floor periodically to get rid of the dried overspray, dirt, etc (wetting
the floor works too... until it dries!)
2) use a tack rag before spraying
3) rinse your spray gun to get out any lint left from cleaning/wiping
4) a bunch of hair, dandruff, lint comes off of you and your clothes... wear disp.
tyvek coveralls if you can.
Just get out there and paint!
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP What is the reason for the fittings where the vents go through the floor
anyway? Why not just run the line through a bushing or grommet in a
hole in the floor? SNIP
I used a grommet through the floor of my RV-4. Worked fine. The 1/4 vent line
was bent to face forward, similar to what the fitting would do. Drill a small
hole in the back of the vent line in case of ice or insect blockage.
Mine looked nicer than the big fitting. Seal the grommet with some ProSeal to
prevent small exhaust gas fume source into the cockpit.
Vince
(verbose today, aren't I?)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Why can one buy powdered Alodine |
Dean,
I went with Iridite simply because their distributor was in Florida. The nearest
powdered Alodine distributor is in Georgia. We get ours from Allied Plating
Supplies
5000 E. 10th Court
Hialeah, Florida.
(305) 681-8531
Check Heinkel's and MacDirmid's web sites to find your local distributor.
http://www.macindustrialproducts.com/sales.html
http://www.hstna.com/index.cfm?location=10&subsection=5
Charlie Kuss
>
>I have read this thread with interest. I have heard that Alodine/Iridite is
>available as a powder, but I have been unable to locate a source. Any leads
>(especially in the East) would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Dean Pichon
>
>
>>From: Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question
>>Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 21:07:52 -0500
>>
>>
>>Dave,
>> Why do you wish to brush the Iridite on? I've used Iridite 14-2
>>extensively on my project. It's great stuff. If you purchase it in powder
>>form, it 's cheap enough to dip every part. I've dip tank treated every
>>part on my 8A, including the main longerons, my one piece wing main skins
>>(9' 2 5/8" long) & the fuselage tail cone skins.
>> Buying Alodine or Iridite in liquid form is WAY to expensive. Purchased
>>in powder form, it works out to under $2 per gallon. With 40 gallons, you
>>can treat the largest parts of your project and have enough to do all the
>>parts. The dipping method yields the best results with the least work. I
>>have seen the same info you refer to, but like you, could find no
>>additional info. Sorry! :-(
>>Charlie Kuss
>>
>>
>> >
>> >Okay, I've been checking into Iridite 14-2 and found a local distributor
>> >here in Spokane. When we talked about different application methods, he
>> >mentioned that McDermid makes some kind of kit to go with it to make it
>> >'brushable', although he was short on details. Upon further searching
>> >of the archives and the net, I ran across a reference to an additive
>> >that you put into 14-2 to make it brushable (sorry, can't remember the
>> >name).
>> >
>> >Do folks use 14-2 as is mixed, or are they putting in this additive for
>> >when they want to brush/spray the solution?
>> >
>> >Second question: the sales guy suggested taking the parts to a local
>> >shop that specializes in dipping. He said that he knew business had
>> >been slow for them, so they would probably cut a good deal. Has anybody
>> >else used a shop like this? If so, how much did it cost you?
>> >--
>> >
>> >Dave
>> >http://www.rv10project.net
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus
>scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question |
Dave,
I visited MacDirmid's web site last night. You have to "sign up" to get into
the useful areas of the site. I got the documentation on that "brush on" kit
you referred to. It's simply 4 oz of powdered Iridite and 16 oz of powdered Isoprep
188 deoxidizer. The Isoprep is not added to the Iridite. Isoprep is simply
the MacDirmid trade name for their version of AlumiPrep 33 (Heinkel Corp)
You use the Isoprep to clean the aluminum BEFORE you treat it with the Iridite.
According to their directions, no special additives are needed. I've downloaded
the tech info on Iridite 14-2 and the Brush On Kit from their web site. (Which
is NOT user friendly) I'll be happy to email these documents off list, to
anyone who wants them.
I'm unclear on what you mean by "recovering" the Iridite? I store my Iridite
in 5 gallon paint pails after I've converted it to a liquid. I simply pour the
pails into whatever size & shape dip tank I need to do the job. Alodine and
Iridite are photochemically reactive. Don't use these products out in the sun.
Exposure to sunlight ruins the chemicals. Properly stored, the liquid will stay
fresh for 18 months.
Local RV-9A builder Peter Laurence stored his Iridite in a 5 gallon pail left on
his porch. To his dismay, he discovered that the pails are not completely opaque.
Since the pail was exposed to the sun during the late afternoon, 5 gallons
of Iridite was ruined after sitting for 2 months on the porch. Keep this stuff
in the shade. I store mine under the work bench at the rear of my shop, away
from the doors.
To transfer the Iridite back to the pails, I've found using an aquarium pump
works very well. I transfer the AlumiPrep the same way. Wear gloves while doing
this. I have photos I can email you of this, if you like.
AlumiPrep and Isoprep will keep for a long time. I've got some that's over 4 years
old. I'm still using it and it still works quite well.
FYI, get your email. I received a post that my email sent directly to your email
address bounced. Your account was over it's allotted limit. You need to fix
this before I can send you any "off list" photos or documents.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Charlie, I guess my thinking is that with the limited lifespan (re-use)
>that I'd be spending a lot of time recovering the powder (not sure how
>that's done yet). I've read msgs that talked about using an air stone
>(aquarium type) to keep the solution good, but does that really work? I
>don't mind building a dip tank so much, as having to continually recover
>& re-mix the solution. (Perhaps recovery is so simple I'm dreading it
>for no reason, dunno).
>
>I'm planning to hook up with the local EAA Chapter at the meeting in a
>week, and hope to find somebody that will either sell a couple of
>pounds, or wants to split some, since I've heard that a 10 lb tin goes a
>LONG way. Iridite sounds like the way to go (for me, anyways) vs. the
>liquid options. If I can keep the solution in the dip tank workable, it
>would be perfect.
>
>Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>>
>>Dave,
>> Why do you wish to brush the Iridite on? I've used Iridite 14-2 extensively
on my project. It's great stuff. If you purchase it in powder form, it 's cheap
enough to dip every part. I've dip tank treated every part on my 8A, including
the main longerons, my one piece wing main skins (9' 2 5/8" long) & the fuselage
tail cone skins.
>> Buying Alodine or Iridite in liquid form is WAY to expensive. Purchased in powder
form, it works out to under $2 per gallon. With 40 gallons, you can treat
the largest parts of your project and have enough to do all the parts. The dipping
method yields the best results with the least work. I have seen the same
info you refer to, but like you, could find no additional info. Sorry! :-(
>>Charlie Kuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Okay, I've been checking into Iridite 14-2 and found a local distributor
>>>here in Spokane. When we talked about different application methods, he
>>>mentioned that McDermid makes some kind of kit to go with it to make it
>>>'brushable', although he was short on details. Upon further searching
>>>of the archives and the net, I ran across a reference to an additive
>>>that you put into 14-2 to make it brushable (sorry, can't remember the
>>>name).
>>>
>>>Do folks use 14-2 as is mixed, or are they putting in this additive for
>>>when they want to brush/spray the solution?
>>>
>>>Second question: the sales guy suggested taking the parts to a local
>>>shop that specializes in dipping. He said that he knew business had
>>>been slow for them, so they would probably cut a good deal. Has anybody
>>>else used a shop like this? If so, how much did it cost you?
>>>--
>>>
>>>Dave
>>>http://www.rv10project.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>--
>
>Dave
>http://www.rv10project.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
Thanks to all for the many replies. I successfully riveted the VS
skeleton yesterday, without any gaps, and thought I would share what
worked for posterity and the archives...
1. (dumb one) After a few initial failures, I needed to flatten out
the flanges to remove the puckering around the rivet holes. If this
is not done you will of course get a gap next time around. Depending
on the severity I used hand seamers or taps with a ballpeen hammer.
2. Gus had a good idea for squeezing, which is to hold the material
together with a free hand. I actually try to keep both hands on the
squeezer since I'm afraid of it slipping and damaging something, but
usually you can find a spare finger or two to press the material
together. This was all the clamping I needed for the squeezer, since
you can hold it together much closer to the hole than a clamp could.
3. Even if you can't get a clamp very close to the rivet it's still
better than some distant (1" or more away) clecos. It's almost as if
the clecos are pretty much useless under the vibration of the rivet
gun. I found some long-reach c-clamps at home depot which are not
ideal but better than nothing. The c-clamp visegrips also look
promising.
4. Shop head on the thicker side does help somewhat but it doesn't
solve all problems. Note that there are some posts in the archives
that have this backward.
5. I ended up hitting some of these rivets with a long set I just
bought instead of the double-offset. The double-offset seemed harder
to control and required more time/PSI, at least to my inexperienced
hands...
Also I'll pass along another "thumbs up" on hockey shin tape for
cushioning those universal sets. You'll spend some time tracking it
down but it sure seemed to help my newbie riveting quite a bit.
No smilies at all and the heads look pristine. Lasts longer than
masking tape and no residue.
Thanks again, can't wait to rivet the skin on now.
Paul
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>
Thanks very much Charlie for the new information on primers. I am not sure
you are right on this. I look at the product description on PPG DPLF epoxy
primer and it reads, "DPLF.....provides an excellent corrosion resistant
primer. This primer provides excellent adhesions to many types of properly
prepared metal, fiberglass and aluminum substrates, as well as plastic
fillers."
And it is a compatible primer base surface for PPG Concept paint. I don't
see
where DeSoto Desoprime HS is acceptable in that regard for Concept.
What is it about acceptability of a paint on a plane that is different from
a car if it works on aluminum? The folks at Nascar use PPG Concept paints
on many race cars that
routinely go over 200 MPH although I don't know what the primer is. I am
sure they could not prove it will last for 20 years. I assume they paint on
steel and not aluminum but they may be painting on
composite too. I would like to hear more about why the DPLF primer is not
to be used for the plane. It might help someone else make a better
decision, but for me I am already committed to DPLF. Thanks for more
information to make me smarter next time if there is one.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Circuit Breakers |
Howdy-
While comparison shopping on the web I discovered that one can get CB's that will
work in ATC / automotive style fuse blocks. Does anyone have any insights
as to the reliability / quality / applicability of these devices to our homebuilts?
Glen Matejcek
All-electric RV-8, pulling wires
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Backup Instruments |
I think this is more of a subjective thing that can't simply be answered as
a "blanket" rule. I think it depends more on pilot proficiency than the
instrument itself. I know one pilot on my airport who could easily fly hard
IFR with only the 196 (or less), but then I know guys who could barely fly
light IFR with a full panel of working instruments and a coupled Autopilot!
The difference is experience and comfort level flying hard IFR. Some have
it and some don't. Personally, I don't have tons of time or experience
flying hard IFR, so I know my limits.
Sorry for the vaguely rhetorical answer, but I think it's the truth! BTW,
your panel looks like it should be a really nice setup! Perhaps a Dynon
EFIS for a backup?!?
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
1 RV6 - IFR
1 RV6 - VFR
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dave Sundberg
Subject: RV-List: Backup Instruments
Has anyone flown the Garmin 196 Panel Screen under actual or simulated IFR
conditions? Is it reasonable to plan on it as an emergency-only backup
instrument to get you down safely if the rest of the panel goes dark? I've
been scratching my head over a panel layout and would appreciate some input.
My main concern is with what I realistically need for backup. I'm not IFR
rated, but plan to be shortly after completing my 7, so I want the panel to
be at least minimally IFR capable. The current plan is for:
GRT EFIS
GRT EIS
GTX 327
SL30
GPS196
DigiTrak
AlTrak
Vert. Card Compass
AOA
I may add an IFR GPS later for GPS approaches, but should this panel be
sufficient for "Light (and safe) IFR"?
Dave
Alpharetta, GA
RV-7A - Panel & Wire
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: cheap, easy paint booth |
Frazier, Vincent A wrote:
>
>Linn's idea is just fine, but here's another one that might save you a BUNCH of
time and money.
>Go to the local junk tool store, online, or flea market and buy one of the 10'X
20' garage tents that sell for about $100. It comes with EVERYTHING in one
box. It's what I used and it is just the right size for painting RVs.
>
>Here's a few links that shows the tent in action.
>http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-10-02/painting%20tent.jpg
>http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-10-02/fuselage%20painting%201.jpg
>http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2003-10-02/fuselage%20painting%203.jpg
>
Great idea, and great pics! I used light chain to hang the 'top' from
the hangar beams, and when I'm not painting, I just pull the uprights
out and fold the plastic over the top so it's out of the way. I had to
attach the frame to the back of the hangar until I had the plastic on
otherwise it sways a lot. The 'carport' frame is more sturdy and that
isn't a problem. Thanks for sharing your idea!
Linn
>
>http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Everything%20else.htm or just read the entire, detailed painting process on this page. It's worth reading if you are painting your own plane. If you're not painting your own plane... you big sissy. LOL. You don't have to thank me.... just send cash. ;-)
>
>Vince Frazier
>F-1H Rocket, N540VF, Crazy Horse
><http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: VS rib to spar gap |
>
>3. Even if you can't get a clamp very close to the rivet it's still
>better than some distant (1" or more away) clecos. It's almost as if
>the clecos are pretty much useless under the vibration of the rivet
>gun. I found some long-reach c-clamps at home depot which are not
>ideal but better than nothing. The c-clamp visegrips also look
>promising.
The folks at Vans recommend that you have several "cleco" style
clamps. These work extremely well for this sort of clamping task. I use
them constantly. here is a link:
http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=CLC100&variation=&aitem=3&mitem=9
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>
>green board tested 8:25
>
>two led's are dim, but it can't be detected. they are in the forward
>facing cluster and they are so
>bright that they are not noticed.....
As you note later, a forgotten resistor was the cause.
You left off a part, but the light still functioned quite well. As
you proved to yourself, I designed the lights to be as reliable as possible.
I could have used a single voltage regulator instead of many
current regulators. The separate current regulators protect the LEDs from
voltage spikes, make the LEDs last longer, and have a very constant light
output, regardless of aging or changes in ambient temperature or changes in
supply voltage.
>will trouble shoot later when vision returns.
The instructions tell you not to look directly at the lights when
you power them up. :-) Perhaps I should change the instructions and suggest
folks put on sunglasses.
How long did you see spots? :-)
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Another Plane Is Born |
N9PT has successfully made the transition from being a bundle of parts to an
airplane. At 11:30 am, Nov 6, Mike Robertson, aka das fed, issued the
special airworthiness certificate. Mike did a great job and was fantastic
to work with.
First flight is scheduled for Sunday, Nov 9, exactly 9 years after I picked
my empennage kit up from Vans.
Many thanks to the RV-List. My first post was June 14, 1995.
Vital Statistics
RV-6A (slow build obviously)
N9PT (no significance. I picked it because its shortness and how it rolls
off the tongue (Niner, Papa, Tango))
New O360-A1A Lycoming
New Hartzel Constant Speed Prop
One Lightspeed Plasma II Electronic Ign, One Mag
GRT Engine Monitor with fuel flow option
TruTrack DFC 250
Propriety Software AOA Pro II
Dynon EFIS with remote compass
Aviation Instruments Technology Mach III Air Data Computer
Richie M2 electronic compass
RC Allen Turn Coordinator
Electronic International Super Clock
Bob Nuckolls Voltage/Loadmeter
Apollo Full Stack
MX20 MFD
GX60 GPS/Com
SL15 Audio/CD/Playback
SL70 Transponder
SL30 Nav/Com
Annunciator
Mid-Continent CDI
Electric aileron/elevator trim and flaps
Infinity Aerospace Grip (pilot only, co-pilot unwired w/ Mac grip)
PTT---Trigger
Aileron/elevator trim hat
Flaps down and up with limit switch for automatic shut off
Comm1 flip/flop and playback for my SL15
TruTrack Control Wheel Autopilot Switch
Previous/next screens on my GRT engine monitor
Standard Nav and Com 1 antenna
Archer Wingtip Com II and Marker Beacon Antennas
All Electric, one battery, B&C 40 amp alternator and backup B&C SD-8 PM
Alternator
Wired as per Bob Nuckolls "All Electric On A Budget"....with some tweaks
Hot bus, essential bus, main bus
Leather, tempra foam seats by Becky Orndorff
Panel by Steve Davis, Panel Pilot
Hooker Harness Seat Belts
Andair Gasolator
Safecraft Chrome Halon Fire Extinguisher
Stewart Warner oil cooler
Earls SS oil and gas hoses
Whelan Strobes
Mountain High Portable O2 with Kevlar tank
Ross Mickey
N9PT....flying...almost
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Mounting Oil Air Separator |
| From: | Edward OConnor <edwardoconnor(at)mac.com> |
I have an Andair oil/air separator and am wondering if it needs to be
mounted on the firewall in any particular relationship to the outlet on
the engine. Can it be mounted lower then the engine outlet or should
it be higher? Using XP 360 on RV-8.
Ed OConnor/RV-8/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: more painting tips |
>I assume your fan was a sealed motor type. Do you have a source? How big
>was it to be effective? An open or Exposed motor can cause a KABOOM to
>occur with flammable paint fumes as the brushes are hanging out in the
>open, subject to producing sparks. Which means you don't want to use
>your K-Mart box fan. SNIP
A word of warning for those of you using fans as extractors. The motor may
be of the induction type and have no brushes as DC motors have, BUT the
heavier ones usually have a capacitor start or bucking coil start winding
which is in the circuit as the motor gets up to speed and which then is
switched out of circuit by a centrifugal switch with an accompanying spark.
The dangers are there!
I salvaged the blower from my old heating furnace when it was replaced by a
modern high-efficiency unit. It has a 3/8 HP motor which V-belt drives a 12"
dia. squirrel-cage rotor. Man, can that thing move air! Ideal for clearing
paint fumes out of the shop! These blowers are usually available on the
cheap form Heating Contractors salvaged from old furnaces like mine. (Sorry
for all you guys in hot climates that don't need these animals [Grrrr] )o_o(
Cheers!!-----Henry Hore in cold Canada!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: more painting tips |
Henry, the same thing can be had from air conditioning contractors.
they use squirrel cage blowers in the air handlers and you can be
usually get them free from a/c dealers who junk the old units that they
replace
Jim Streit
90073
fuse
Elsa & Henry wrote:
>
>
>
>>I assume your fan was a sealed motor type. Do you have a source? How big
>>was it to be effective? An open or Exposed motor can cause a KABOOM to
>>occur with flammable paint fumes as the brushes are hanging out in the
>>open, subject to producing sparks. Which means you don't want to use
>>your K-Mart box fan. SNIP
>>
>>
>
>A word of warning for those of you using fans as extractors. The motor may
>be of the induction type and have no brushes as DC motors have, BUT the
>heavier ones usually have a capacitor start or bucking coil start winding
>which is in the circuit as the motor gets up to speed and which then is
>switched out of circuit by a centrifugal switch with an accompanying spark.
>The dangers are there!
>
>I salvaged the blower from my old heating furnace when it was replaced by a
>modern high-efficiency unit. It has a 3/8 HP motor which V-belt drives a 12"
>dia. squirrel-cage rotor. Man, can that thing move air! Ideal for clearing
>paint fumes out of the shop! These blowers are usually available on the
>cheap form Heating Contractors salvaged from old furnaces like mine. (Sorry
>for all you guys in hot climates that don't need these animals [Grrrr] )o_o(
>
>Cheers!!-----Henry Hore in cold Canada!
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mounting Oil Air Separator |
Edward OConnor wrote:
>
>I have an Andair oil/air separator and am wondering if it needs to be
>mounted on the firewall in any particular relationship to the outlet on
>the engine. Can it be mounted lower then the engine outlet or should
>it be higher? Using XP 360 on RV-8.
>Ed OConnor/RV-8/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
>
>
>
Needs to be higher than the return to the engine. Can be higher than
the crankcase vent, but doesn't have to be.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | =?Windows-1252?Q?Jack_&_Ren=E9e?= <jack.bannon(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | 2600 rpm placard |
We've recently purchased a Sensenich 70CM7S9-0-79 prop for our also recently purchased
RV-6A. The prop is not yet installed. Part of the joy of flying the plane,
should be it's aerobatic capability. I've been reading about the do not
exceed 2600 rpm with this prop, as well as cautions not to do aeros because of
the probability of exceeding the rpm limit. Can anyone shed some light on this?
What ramifications if it is exceeded?
Short term excursions? Is there instant damage to the prop/engine mount/airframe?
A harmonic... leading to...?Whatever you have to share would be appreciated.
tks... Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 2600 rpm placard |
The restriction is there because of a 10th order harmonic vibration in the prop.
Basically that means the prop will shake it self apart, but you will not feel
any vibration until you loose several inches of one of the blades. I was told
the prop needs to be overhauled when it reaches 50 hours of operation in excess
of 2600 rpm. I was also told that the vibration starts at 2600 but starts
low and really build at 2650. So brief excursion should be avoided, but not
something to really sweet in cruise. As for aerobatics, I enjoy looping add
rolling my -8 but I keep the RPM down below 2400. Not a real problem it just
requires some attention to the throttle in a loop.
Hope this helps,
Alan Kritzman
RV-8 99.7 hour....gotta break 100 this weekend.
In a message dated 11/7/2003 5:42:59 PM Eastern Standard Time, Jack & Rene
writes:
>
>We've recently purchased a Sensenich 70CM7S9-0-79 prop for our also recently purchased
RV-6A. The prop is not yet installed. Part of the joy of flying the plane,
should be it's aerobatic capability. I've been reading about the do not
exceed 2600 rpm with this prop, as well as cautions not to do aeros because of
the probability of exceeding the rpm limit. Can anyone shed some light on this?
What ramifications if it is exceeded?
>Short term excursions? Is there instant damage to the prop/engine mount/airframe?
A harmonic... leading to...?Whatever you have to share would be appreciated.
>tks... Jack
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel vent blockages / mud daubers |
I'm somewhat puzzled by the many reports of problems of this nature. I thought
it was standard practice to Proseal screen material across the bottom of the
vents.
Can the wasps get through nylon or fabric mesh? How about metal?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Backup Instruments |
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
God Damnit--there is no "light" IFR--if you fly in the soup, you fly in
the soup--do you think that you can peek out the side of your training
glasses in the real world? When things get grey, they get grey--when
things get dark, they get dark--there is no in-between. Where's Old
Bob--the Ancient Aviator-- when you need him? Your ten-year kid, who's
been raised on video games, can probably fly a better ILS course than
you can.
Boyd--I love to fly--I really don't like to look at dead people.
On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 09:49 AM, Dave Sundberg wrote:
>
> Has anyone flown the Garmin 196 Panel Screen under actual or simulated
> IFR conditions? Is it reasonable to plan on it as an emergency-only
> backup instrument to get you down safely if the rest of the panel goes
> dark? I've been scratching my head over a panel layout and would
> appreciate some input. My main concern is with what I realistically
> need for backup. I'm not IFR rated, but plan to be shortly after
> completing my 7, so I want the panel to be at least minimally IFR
> capable. The current plan is for:
>
> GRT EFIS
> GRT EIS
> GTX 327
> SL30
> GPS196
> DigiTrak
> AlTrak
> Vert. Card Compass
> AOA
>
> I may add an IFR GPS later for GPS approaches, but should this panel
> be sufficient for "Light (and safe) IFR"?
>
> Dave
> Alpharetta, GA
> RV-7A - Panel & Wire
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
Bill Dube wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >green board tested 8:25
> >
> >two led's are dim, but it can't be detected. they are in the forward
> >facing cluster and they are so
> >bright that they are not noticed.....
>
> As you note later, a forgotten resistor was the cause.
>
> You left off a part, but the light still functioned quite well. As
> you proved to yourself, I designed the lights to be as reliable as possible.
>
> I could have used a single voltage regulator instead of many
> current regulators. The separate current regulators protect the LEDs from
> voltage spikes, make the LEDs last longer, and have a very constant light
> output, regardless of aging or changes in ambient temperature or changes in
> supply voltage.
>
> >will trouble shoot later when vision returns.
>
> The instructions tell you not to look directly at the lights when
> you power them up. :-) Perhaps I should change the instructions and suggest
> folks put on sunglasses.
>
> How long did you see spots? :-)
>
> Bill Dube'
They are almost gone now.... actually they only lasted a few minutes, I have old
eyes that are nearly wore out anyway, so seeing nothing is almost normal...
I did the red board this morning, I impressed my wife and a Luscombe friend of
mine.
Don't know if I mentioned in the note to you or not, I did it in about an hour.
After you do the first board, you don't need to read the step by step
instructions and it goes quicker.
These are fantastic, and building them is a lot better than building a
Heathkit.......
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Backup Instruments |
Maybe a more helpful response would be to answer two questions implied by
his request:
1. What do your recommend for a VFR airplane where the pilot would like a
second chance when he inadvertently ends up scud running? Think of Bill &
Jeremy Benedict.
2. What would you consider the minimum requirement for an airplane where the
pilot would like to occasionally file IFR?
"God Damnit-there is no 'light IFR..." may be politically correct among the
jet jockey set, but it doesn't help someone trying to decide how to equip
his RV.
Terry
RV-8A finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Boyd Braem
Subject: Re: RV-List: Backup Instruments
God Damnit--there is no "light" IFR--if you fly in the soup, you fly in
the soup--do you think that you can peek out the side of your training
glasses in the real world? When things get grey, they get grey--when
things get dark, they get dark--there is no in-between. Where's Old
Bob--the Ancient Aviator-- when you need him? Your ten-year kid, who's
been raised on video games, can probably fly a better ILS course than
you can.
Boyd--I love to fly--I really don't like to look at dead people.
On Friday, November 7, 2003, at 09:49 AM, Dave Sundberg wrote:
>
> Has anyone flown the Garmin 196 Panel Screen under actual or simulated
> IFR conditions? Is it reasonable to plan on it as an emergency-only
> backup instrument to get you down safely if the rest of the panel goes
> dark? I've been scratching my head over a panel layout and would
> appreciate some input. My main concern is with what I realistically
> need for backup. I'm not IFR rated, but plan to be shortly after
> completing my 7, so I want the panel to be at least minimally IFR
> capable. The current plan is for:
>
> GRT EFIS
> GRT EIS
> GTX 327
> SL30
> GPS196
> DigiTrak
> AlTrak
> Vert. Card Compass
> AOA
>
> I may add an IFR GPS later for GPS approaches, but should this panel
> be sufficient for "Light (and safe) IFR"?
>
> Dave
> Alpharetta, GA
> RV-7A - Panel & Wire
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-
> ======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel vent blockages / mud daubers |
Rob W M Shipley wrote:
>
>I'm somewhat puzzled by the many reports of problems of this nature.
>
It's a big problem
> I thought it was standard practice to Proseal screen material across the bottom
of the vents.
>
I don't know about the RVs (I'm learning!), but it's not common elsewhere.
>Can the wasps get through nylon or fabric mesh?
>
No. They need a hole about > 1/8" ..... depending on the size (age) of
the mud daubers.
> How about metal?
>
They don't eat metal.
Linn
>Rob
>Rob W M Shipley
>RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Paint information Thanks |
As usual the list has came through with volumes of great information. Thanks to
everyone who submitted. I guess this has given the quevos to give it a try. I'll
rely on 38 years of RC modeling experience and the considerable information
gleaned here to make it work.
Thanks everyone
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
Finish kit stuff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy samples |
The acrylic is recyclable.
>
>Come Tuesday all this scrap stuff gets
>pitched.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
Rob
Get the uhmw tape from Van's. It is applied to the wing itself rather than
to the flap. Also comes in the correct length.
Dean Van Winkle
90095
Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com>
Subject: RV-List: SS tape
>
> Stein wrote
> "I will be selling it on my website starting next week, and the price will
be
> $.50 cents per foot. The stainless tape is 3" with the heavy duty Acrylic
> adhesive, exactly what works well on the leading edge of the -4,6,7, & 8
flaps.
> Cheers, Stein Bruch, http://www.steinair.com "
>
> Is this not likely to be of use to 9 builders?
>
> Rob
> Rob W M Shipley
> RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel vent blockages / mud daubers |
>I'm somewhat puzzled by the many reports of problems of this nature. I
thought it was standard practice to >Proseal screen material across the
bottom of the vents.
>Can the wasps get through nylon or fabric mesh? How about metal?
>Rob
I've done that on all four of my vents. Four?
The two fuel tank vents,
The crankcase breather and
The engine driven fuel pump overflow (vent)
What I did on the last one was to run a length 1/4" tubing down the firewall
to the port side corner and exit through the FW flange (and Cowl hinge
flange) there so that it just barely, protrudes into the slip stream, the
other end connected to the fuel pump through a flex hose length. I figured
that if ever one of the diaphragms in the fuel pump ruptured, I would either
get an oil streak or nice blue one down the belly depending which one "gave
up the ghost" I think this is a good thing to find out early and can be seen
on every pre-flight inspection.
I've never seen anything written about this on the copious literature on
fuel systems I have read.
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leesafur(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Circuit Breakers |
Semi's been using them for years
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup Instruments |
To answer the questions;
A VFR airplane needs at a minimum a Turn coodinator in addition to Airspeed
and Altimeter.
As for the "occasional IFR" Boyd is right, Call it what you like, but this
is a bad concept. Would I fly in worse weather in a deiced radar equiped
twin than my RV? Yes, but if you are going to fly IFR at all, then you need
to have an IFR airplane.
Whether you fly light, occasional, or just plain IFR. The requirements for
the pilot and the plane are the same. A current well trained pilot and a
plane with the basics and some back up. That means no single failure will
leave you unable to control your airplane.
Using the Dynon or other EFIS, I would want a turn coordinator (preferably
driving an A/P) a seperate Airspeed and Altimeter. The EFIS and the T/C
need to have a different power source. (the Dynon internal battery
qualifies)
To answer an earlier question that started this, I practiced flying the B-25
without looking out the windows using a Garmin 196 and I was convinced that
I could get thru a cloud deck with it alone, but I would not consider that
as a sole source of back up to an EFIS. It is a little slow reacting and an
RV rolls pretty fast, in turbulence in a quick airplane it might not work.
Also, too many times the battery is dead in my handheld GPS. I have shot an
ILS to minimums in a C-210 with a froze up pitot system and using GPS info
for speed and it works, but I can tell you it is not an Airspeed indicator.
If the G196 was continiously being charged by the ships power, that might
be an acceptable alternative, but I would strongly prefer separate panel
mounted backups. Yoke mounted, cigarette lighter powered, handhelds, with
cords all over the cockpit and an antenna that gets blocked in certain
situations would not cut it.
Just one old freight hound's opinion.
Doug Rozendaal
IFR RV-4 Dynon, AS, Alt, Navaid A/P, KX-155w/GS, ARNAV 5000 GPS, plus a cell
phone and a Lowrance handheld sometimes with dead batteries just in case it
gets really tough. I am not paranoid, I have just had everything in an
airplane quit at least once.
>
> Maybe a more helpful response would be to answer two questions implied by
> his request:
>
> 1. What do your recommend for a VFR airplane where the pilot would like a
> second chance when he inadvertently ends up scud running? Think of Bill &
> Jeremy Benedict.
> 2. What would you consider the minimum requirement for an airplane where
the
> pilot would like to occasionally file IFR?
>
> "God Damnit-there is no 'light IFR..." may be politically correct among
the
> jet jockey set, but it doesn't help someone trying to decide how to equip
> his RV.
>
> Terry
> RV-8A finishing
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> VariPrime/ Sherwin williams? |
| Subject: | Re: Epoxy primers for aluminum was Why do we use |
VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
Sherwin williams?
Larry,
I'm sorry I wasn't clear. Yes, you can use the DP40, however, it will not afford
you the same level of corrosion protection. As I stated earlier, it doesn't
contain strontium chromate. I'm going to send you some info regarding the Mil
Spec for aircraft primers. I'll send this "off list", since the RV List will
simply strip it out, if I post it here.
I "thought" that DP70 contained strontium chromate, however, I was not sure, so
I did not mention using it. However, I see that another lister posted that it
does contain this useful ingredient. If you prefer to stick to PPG's automotive
primers, I'd say go with that. Just out of curiosity, what does PPG say is
a "properly prepared" aluminum surface? I'll bet they recommend using a chromate
conversion process (aka Alodine or Iridite) prior to painting.
I don't get to wound around the axle when I read statements by paint manufacturers
regarding using only their specified products. There are 2 reasons for this.
#1 They have tested their primers and finish paints. They know they work together.
They also want to instill brand loyalty and get you to buy all you paints
from them. Using other products is an unknown quantity to them. They usually
state this in their literature. The implication is that something will go
wrong with your paint job if you don't buy their stuff.
Epoxy primers are capable of being used with most any top coat. When they first
came out many years ago, painters used them to seal enamel paints. Certain older
cars were originally painted with lacquer. Most classic cars are more valuable
if they are painted with the "original" paint. When acrylic enamels first
came on the scene, a lot of older cars were repainted with it. You can not
directly apply lacquer over enamel. A chemical reaction will occur which makes
the new lacquer top coat look like wrinkle paint. A painter could either totally
strip the enamel paint job off, then paint with the original lacquer. This
is time consuming and expensive. As an alternative, an epoxy primer could be
applied over the enamel paint. This seals the enamel paint job and keeps it separate
from the lacquer paint job to be applied over it.
My point here is that epoxy primers will allow application of dissimilar paints
without causing problems.
#2 With today's litigious society, specifying use of certain products gives them
an "out" if things go wrong for you. It's another case of CYA.
Concept or even PPG's Delta (which I'm using over Sterling Mil-Spec epoxy primer)
will work fine over any of PPG's or DeSoto's primers. The great thing about
all epoxy primers is that they are not sensitive about what you apply as a finish
coat over them.
Charlie
>
>> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
>primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
>offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>>
>
>Thanks very much Charlie for the new information on primers. I am not sure
>you are right on this. I look at the product description on PPG DPLF epoxy
>primer and it reads, "DPLF.....provides an excellent corrosion resistant
>primer. This primer provides excellent adhesions to many types of properly
>prepared metal, fiberglass and aluminum substrates, as well as plastic
>fillers."
>
>And it is a compatible base surface for PPG Concept paint. I don't see
>where DeSoto Desoprime HS is acceptable in that regard.
>
>What is it about acceptability of a paint on a plane that is different from
>a car? The folks at Nascar use PPG Concept paints on many race cars that
>routinely go over 200 MPH although I don't know what the primer is. I
>assume they paint on steel and not aluminum but they may be painting on
>composite too. I would like to hear more about why the primer is not
>designed for the plane. Thanks for more information.
>
>Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>On Finish Kit
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
>
>
>>
>> Larry,
>> DP40LF does not contain strontium chromate. If it's an automotive product,
>& is not intended for use on aircraft aluminum. Strontium chromate is the
>replacement for Zinc chromate used in Aerospace Mil Spec epoxy primers. I
>know that PPG makes aircraft refinishing products. DeSoto is their Aviation
>Division. DeSoto Desoprime HS is one product which is specifically
>formulated for use on aluminium.
>>
>>
>http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1&pdfID=4
>>
>> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/desophs.pdf
>>
>> Automotive epoxy primers are formulated for use on steel. These epoxy
>primers are not intended for use on aluminum. Their formulation does not
>offer any special ingredients to prevent corrosion.
>>
>> The link below lists all the aviation primers available through PPG's
>DeSoto division.
>>
>>
>http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/main.asp?img=coat&menuID=2&contLvl=com&catID=2&prodLvl=prime&prodID=1
>>
>> DeSoto's Super Koropon is another excellent product for aircarft use. You
>can use anything you want on your aircraft. However, why not use a product
>specifically designed for aircraft aluminum? Epoxy primers are not cheap, so
>why not get the best product for the job?
>>
>> Charlie Kuss
>>
>
>> >
>> >That is why I used 2-part epoxy DP40LF. Also, when you go to do the
>finish
>> >painting, the DP48LF is a good primer for the PPG Concept paint. Great
>> >stuff. And by the way, the DP40/48LF primer can be thinned to make it
>flow
>> >out nice and smooth. Ask your PPG paint supplier about it. Great primer
>> >but you need a air supply to protect yourself or work outside where there
>is
>> >plenty of fresh air. And it does not dry instantly like some other
>primers.
>> >Painting in the fall is a good time due to bugs being less common with
>> >outside painting. However, I suggest you setup an inside paint booth
>large
>> >enough to do a detached wing and later the fuselage. That is the best
>way
>> >to go when you think about it seriously IMO.
>> >
>> >Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
>> >On Finish Kit and painting things Viper Race Yellow over DP48LP primer
>> >
>> >
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: <DWENSING(at)aol.com>
>> >To:
>> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Why do we use VariPrime/ Sherwin williams?
>> >
>> >
>> >>
>> >> In a message dated 11/1/03 11:34:22 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>> >> top_gun_toronto(at)yahoo.ca writes:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > For those following our steps... the only true sure way is to Anodize
>or
>> >> > Epoxy paint. Anything else is a guess against mother nature.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Sorry, but that is not quite true. There are other paint systems that
>will
>> >> give equal or better corrosion protection versus epoxy. The one thing
>> >epoxy does
>> >> provide is chemical resistance. i.e. gasoline and oil
>> >> Dale Ensing
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
I'm happy with how my oil door has turned out, with the hinge invisible and
all. But before I rivet it together, I want to make sure I'm not shooting
myself in the foot with regard to painting. Here are some photos and
comments on the issue:
http://www.rvproject.com/oildoor.html
...the issue being that unlike the "stock" design, the oil door is not
removable once riveted on (can't be painted separately), and it might be
tricky to get the inside flange painted.
If I paint everything separately and then assemble it, I'll obviously have
visible rivet heads, no can do.
Is it as simple as masking off everything but the flange, painting that
first, letting that dry, then closing the door and painting the whole cowl?
I'm going to have a paint shop shoot it, so is this something I can expect
the average shop to accommodate?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel vent blockages / mud daubers |
> > I thought it was standard practice to Proseal screen material across
the bottom > > of the vents.
> >
> I don't know about the RVs (I'm learning!), but it's not common elsewhere.
>
I have to second that one. Here in central KY, I don't know of anyone who
covers his fuel tank vents to prevent mud dobbers from getting in. I didn't
even cover the pitot tubes on my other two airplanes; but, the RV quickly
showed me I needed to cover the pitot on it. I got a dobber in the pitot
two times in a week. I made a cover for it out of an old arrow shaft and
haven't had a problem since. I cut off a section that would slip over the
pitot quite a bit and drilled a hole in one end. I ran a tie wrap through
that and tied a ribbon off of the tie wrap for recognition of its being
there on the pitot. I made the ribbon long enough that I could tie it to
the tie down ring so that the cover wouldn't blow off of the pitot. I've
been using this method for over three years and have yet to have a mud
dobber come back. I did put screens over the inlet flanges of my air ducts.
I also close the carb heat to keep out critters when the airplane is
sitting. Those things seem to keep my RV cleared of home builders. Notice
that all were cheap methods. :-)
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS
EAA Tech Counselor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel vent blockages / mud daubers |
Jim Sears wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>> I thought it was standard practice to Proseal screen material across
>>>
>>>
>the bottom > > of the vents.
>
>
>>I don't know about the RVs (I'm learning!), but it's not common elsewhere.
>>
>>
>>
>
>I have to second that one. Here in central KY, I don't know of anyone who
>covers his fuel tank vents to prevent mud dobbers from getting in. I didn't
>even cover the pitot tubes on my other two airplanes; but, the RV quickly
>showed me I needed to cover the pitot on it. I got a dobber in the pitot
>two times in a week. I made a cover for it out of an old arrow shaft and
>haven't had a problem since. I cut off a section that would slip over the
>pitot quite a bit and drilled a hole in one end. I ran a tie wrap through
>that and tied a ribbon off of the tie wrap for recognition of its being
>there on the pitot. I made the ribbon long enough that I could tie it to
>the tie down ring so that the cover wouldn't blow off of the pitot. I've
>been using this method for over three years and have yet to have a mud
>dobber come back. I did put screens over the inlet flanges of my air ducts.
>I also close the carb heat to keep out critters when the airplane is
>sitting. Those things seem to keep my RV cleared of home builders. Notice
>that all were cheap methods. :-)
>
>Jim Sears in KY
>RV-6A N198JS
>EAA Tech Counselor
>
Good points Jim! One needs to keep in mind that our aircraft are really
mobile, and while you might not have a problem locally, you can be tied
down overnight in an area that does have a problem. Mud daubers are
quick. At a recent convention (Grumman) at St. Simons Island, the
dauber did his thing in a couple of hours after a plane arrived. They
passed out pipe cleaners to place in the vents to keep the critters
out. This is a case of 'flyer beware'. For the Grummans, the plastic
filter from a rainbird fits nicely (trimmed) and can be left in the vent.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Dan,
Aesthetically, would it be acceptable in your view to attach the hinges to
the door with four SS #4 screws? Also, it's a little difficult to tell from the
photos but can you make the hinge pins removable? I've devised a hidden door
hinge on my -8 primarily using a fabricated fiberglass arm. The hinge pin is
removable which alleviates this problem.
Rick McBride
In a message dated 11/8/03 2:06:05 AM Eastern Standard Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
> I'm happy with how my oil door has turned out, with the hinge invisible and
> all. But before I rivet it together, I want to make sure I'm not shooting
> myself in the foot with regard to painting. Here are some photos and
> comments on the issue:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/oildoor.html
>
> ...the issue being that unlike the "stock" design, the oil door is not
> removable once riveted on (can't be painted separately), and it might be
> tricky to get the inside flange painted.
>
> If I paint everything separately and then assemble it, I'll obviously have
> visible rivet heads, no can do.
>
> Is it as simple as masking off everything but the flange, painting that
> first, letting that dry, then closing the door and painting the whole cowl?
> I'm going to have a paint shop shoot it, so is this something I can expect
> the average shop to accommodate?
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Dan,
From your photo's, it appears the door will be attached to the cowl by a total
of four rivets which tie oil access door into the hinges. Where is it written
in stone that you have to use rivets? To paint the door separately, use can
simply use #4 screws and mini-nuts to fasten the door to the hinge(s) after painting.
Either use screws through the cowl/hinge or the door/hinge attach, your
choice. Paint screw heads as desired.
Rick Galati RV-6A FWF
....the issue being that unlike the "stock" design, the oil door is notremovable
once riveted on (can't be painted separately), and it might betricky to get
the inside flange painted.If I paint everything separately and then assemble it,
I'll obviously havevisible rivet heads, no can do.Is it as simple as masking
off everything but the flange, painting thatfirst, letting that dry, then closing
the door and painting the whole cowl?I'm going to have a paint shop shoot
it, so is this something I can expectthe average shop to accommodate?)_( Dan
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Two options for you Dan. Use countersunk screws instead of rivets to hold
the door on to the hinges (or the hinges on the cowl)? Ok, not completely
invisibile, but if you paint the screw heads, maybe.
Second option. Rivet the hinges to the cowl. Paint the cowl. Rivet the
hinges on the door (after cowl is dry of course). Mask the cowl and paint
the door. Shouldn't be too much trouble. Come to think of it, that's how I
would do it.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting
>
> I'm happy with how my oil door has turned out, with the hinge invisible
and
> all. But before I rivet it together, I want to make sure I'm not shooting
> myself in the foot with regard to painting. Here are some photos and
> comments on the issue:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/oildoor.html
>
> ...the issue being that unlike the "stock" design, the oil door is not
> removable once riveted on (can't be painted separately), and it might be
> tricky to get the inside flange painted.
>
> If I paint everything separately and then assemble it, I'll obviously have
> visible rivet heads, no can do.
>
> Is it as simple as masking off everything but the flange, painting that
> first, letting that dry, then closing the door and painting the whole
cowl?
> I'm going to have a paint shop shoot it, so is this something I can expect
> the average shop to accommodate?
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com> |
| Subject: | IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
>
> John,
>
> > Once the
> FAA buys off your plane, everything on it, for that aircraft ONLY, is
> approved. For example, what if you had Hooker Harness seatbelts.
> They are
> not an approved seatbelt. They are definitely better that most of the
> approved belts out there IMHO. But once the DAR signs off the inspection
> and issues the airworthiness certificate the belts become
> "approved" for use
> on that aircraft. The same goes for lights.
Mike,
So, just in case somebody important inquired, how is that documented? Does
that equipment become part of an equipment list with the airworthiness
certificate for that aircraft or what?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
> Second option. Rivet the hinges to the cowl. Paint the cowl. Rivet the
> hinges on the door (after cowl is dry of course). Mask the cowl and paint
> the door. Shouldn't be too much trouble. Come to think of it, that's how
I
> would do it.
Winner, winner, chicken dinner! I like it.
That'll let me use rivets instead of screws, which is ideal since I want the
whole thing to be completely flush and have no visible fasteners. I figure
if I ever need the door off, I can drill out the rivets and convert to
screws at that point. Perfect!
Thanks everybody for all the great tips!!!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net> |
The new EZ Pilot autopilot has a load of new features. RV friendly, too.
http://www.trioavionics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's |
That is the interesting part. Unless you, the builder, make an equipment
list( you should for weight and balance reasons) and date it, there will be
no record, nor is there any requirement to.
Mike Robertson
>From: "John Brick" <jbrick(at)wolfenet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: IFR, HOmebuilts, and TSO's
>Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2003 05:56:29 -0800
>
>
> >
> > John,
> >
> > > Once the
> > FAA buys off your plane, everything on it, for that aircraft ONLY, is
> > approved. For example, what if you had Hooker Harness seatbelts.
> > They are
> > not an approved seatbelt. They are definitely better that most of the
> > approved belts out there IMHO. But once the DAR signs off the
>inspection
> > and issues the airworthiness certificate the belts become
> > "approved" for use
> > on that aircraft. The same goes for lights.
>
>Mike,
>
>So, just in case somebody important inquired, how is that documented? Does
>that equipment become part of an equipment list with the airworthiness
>certificate for that aircraft or what?
>
>John
>
>
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Battery Location |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Brian summed it all up pretty well in his post but I thought I'd
elaborate on a few things FWIW. One is the difference in weight between
the Sensenich and Hartzell props is a little over 20 lbs total, most of
that in the prop right on the nose (41 lbs for Sensenich vs. 55-57 lbs
for the Hartzell, depending on the model). The rest of the difference is
the governor, gov adaptor/gear, oil line, and gov control cable/bracket.
So there is definitely a greater weight penalty with the Hartzell IMHO
and having most of it right on the nose should make a noticeable
difference in the nose-heavy effect. The really light weight of the
Whirlwind 150 is pretty appealing from this perspective but I was
disappointed that the performance was less than Hartzell, with cost being
quite a bit more. So I'm putting the Hartzell on mine.
For the same reasons Brian mentioned I'm putting an Odyssey battery on
the firewall (easier wiring, accessibility, and overall lighter due to
not having the big long 2 AWG wiring back to the aft-battery position).
I have the 180 hp O-360....if I had the much heavier angle valve 200 hp
IO-360, I would definitely put the battery in the back. To help with the
nose-heavy tendency when solo I made a 10 lb ballast weight that goes in
the tail just under the elevator control arms. I goes up through a hole
in the bottom of the fuselage with an over-center twisting motion just
like a camlock and then has a spring loaded tab that locks it in place so
it can't move. I can remove and install it in about 5 seconds. When
installed it's equivalent to about 20-25 lbs ballast in the aft baggage
compartment, or another way to look at it is it will offset the extra 20
lbs the Hartzell is adding the the nose. When I want to carry a
passenger and/or go XC with baggage, I just take it out (and it's MUCH
easier than lugging out sandbags or lead for the aft baggage
compartment). It was--like all custom mods--a lot of work to design and
fabricate but I'm very pleased with the results and think it will be very
nice when I'm flying....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Battery Location
>Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2003 05:28:34 -0000
>
>I am probably going to put an O-360 in my plane. I am leaning
>toward a fixed pitch prop, but may end up putting on a constant
>speed prop.
If you go with a Sensenich metal prop, the overall weight on the nose
isn't
much different than a Hartzell, so you can apply your battery mounting
strategy to either. A wooden prop is an entirely different story.
>
<>
>
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | A SoCAL RendezVous Day! |
Well, as the song goes, "It's a beautiful morning . . . time to go outside
for a ride . . . !!!
THE WEATHER IS GOING TO BE GREAT TODAY - - ALL DAY!
SEE YOU AT CABLE!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Illinois Builders who haven't paid any sales tax yet |
If you care about "being in compliance" with Illinois tax law and you have
yet to send the fine bureaucrats in Springfield any of your hard-earned
RV-bucks, you have 9 more days to pay your sales tax on your airplane
components (finished and flying or otherwise) without being liable for
penalties and interest on said unpaid taxes.
Illinois is offering a sales tax penalties and interest "amnesty" period
which expires November 17th. I was made aware of IL state law while talking
with multiple RV-8 builder Dave Wilson at Oshkosh last August and he was
kind enough to encourage me to look into it ASAP. As luck would have it,
the timing for the amnesty period was fortuitous. It hurt to write the
check, but at least they won't come looking for me when I get the RV-8
signed off next year. After November 17th, penalties and interest will be
DOUBLED!! You can read about this on the IL Dept of Revenue website at
http://www.revenue.state.il.us/
Every state's laws differ, so your mileage may vary if you are fortunate
enough NOT to live in Illinois.
Ken Brooks
RV-8QB in progress
N1903P reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com> |
| Subject: | ACS2002 Engine Monitor Analog Module Installation |
Listers:
I just got my ACS2002 engine monitor and I am contemplating where I can
mount the Analog Module in the airplane. Is there anyone out there with the
ACS2002 installed in an RV-6 Slider? I would like to know where you mounted
the module and how its been working for you.
Thanks,
Jordan Grant
RV-6 - working on the panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Illinois Builders who haven't paid any sales tax yet |
Wait until you get your property tax bill. And you have to pay that
every year.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Brooks
Subject: RV-List: Illinois Builders who haven't paid any sales tax yet
If you care about "being in compliance" with Illinois tax law and you
have
yet to send the fine bureaucrats in Springfield any of your hard-earned
RV-bucks, you have 9 more days to pay your sales tax on your airplane
components (finished and flying or otherwise) without being liable for
penalties and interest on said unpaid taxes.
Illinois is offering a sales tax penalties and interest "amnesty" period
which expires November 17th. I was made aware of IL state law while
talking
with multiple RV-8 builder Dave Wilson at Oshkosh last August and he was
kind enough to encourage me to look into it ASAP. As luck would have
it,
the timing for the amnesty period was fortuitous. It hurt to write the
check, but at least they won't come looking for me when I get the RV-8
signed off next year. After November 17th, penalties and interest will
be
DOUBLED!! You can read about this on the IL Dept of Revenue website at
http://www.revenue.state.il.us/
Every state's laws differ, so your mileage may vary if you are fortunate
enough NOT to live in Illinois.
Ken Brooks
RV-8QB in progress
N1903P reserved
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Hey Dan,
How about a part number for these hinges. I need a couple of em.
Gary
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>I'm happy with how my oil door has turned out, with the hinge invisible and
>all. But before I rivet it together, I want to make sure I'm not shooting
>myself in the foot with regard to painting. Here are some photos and
>comments on the issue:
>
>http://www.rvproject.com/oildoor.html
>
>...the issue being that unlike the "stock" design, the oil door is not
>removable once riveted on (can't be painted separately), and it might be
>tricky to get the inside flange painted.
>
>If I paint everything separately and then assemble it, I'll obviously have
>visible rivet heads, no can do.
>
>Is it as simple as masking off everything but the flange, painting that
>first, letting that dry, then closing the door and painting the whole cowl?
>I'm going to have a paint shop shoot it, so is this something I can expect
>the average shop to accommodate?
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> Hey Dan,
>
> How about a part number for these hinges. I need a couple of em.
>
I thought I would try and give Dan a bit of a break from answering all the email
his site generates . If you look on his site he has a search function.
http://www.rvproject.com/search.html go there and do a search for "oil door",
and you will quickly find this page that has the mcmaster.com part numbers.
http://www.rvproject.com/20031029.html
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw(at)programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Bringing airplane into USA |
A friend and I just returned from Cranbrook, BC Canada, just north of Kalispel,
MT. My RV-6 got us there in 4 hours flat from Casper, WY. What great country
and people. Know I can say I have flown to another country.
My friend is purchasing a Avid MK III with a 582 Rotax. The airplane is registered
in Canada and bringing the plane back into the USA does not seem a problem.
The plane was built and flown in Canada all its life.
The problem arises about bringing the engine into the USA. US Customs wants a paper
stating that it meets USA emmision Standards.
Question: where does one obtain a copy of this? Has any one else delt with this
issue before?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
Just recently my alternator has been acting up.
Problem: I have vans 35 amp alterntor and a cessna style master switch. I have
been flying my RV with setup for 155 hours before the problem occured.
With both switches of the master on, I engage the starter and the plane starts,
the alt. field fuse blows. If I turn the alt. switch off and start the plane
then turn the alt. switch of the master on, everything is ok.
What is causing my fuse to blow?
Thanks
John Danielson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Don't understand all the yahoo you guys are going through on the oil door!
Here is what I did:
When I cut the piece out of the cowl to make the door, I used an Exacto saw
blade to make the font and rear cuts. To use that saw I peeled away the
stiffener rib so the blade could be inserted into the cut as it progressed.
It worked great and resulted in very narrow kerfs. For the inboard and
outboard cuts I used a standard fine toothed hack-saw blade as I was not
concerned about the wider kerf because I would trim the door to allow space
for the hinge eyes, therefore the kerf width was not an issue, because the
hinge is mounted on the inside of the door and cowl. I use shim strips to
get the top of the hinge eyes flush with the cowl outside surface. It was a
piece of cake to rivet the hinge to the cowl using a rivet squeezer and then
rivet the cover to the hinge with the hinge in the open position. This was
done with the edge of the door in vertical position resting on the hinge
eyes and with my 3" yoke on the squeezer all the rivets can be reached from
the forward or rear side of the door
Net result: After filling sanding and priming the top of the eyes are flush
with the door and cowl top surface and all that can be seen are the gaps
between the eyes. Only disadvantage: The door can only be opened a little
beyond the vertical position, but that's no problem.
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
John: I had this problem with my RV-6 when using Bob Nichols Crow Bar wired
to the switch, as indicated by his install diagram. I then located the Crow
Bar overvoltage protection to my alternator field circuit breaker and the
problem went away. I deduced that the starting surge was causing the
breaker to pop. My view only.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602RV flying 260hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Alternator
>
> Just recently my alternator has been acting up.
> Problem: I have vans 35 amp alterntor and a cessna style master switch. I
have been flying my RV with setup for 155 hours before the problem occured.
> With both switches of the master on, I engage the starter and the plane
starts, the alt. field fuse blows. If I turn the alt. switch off and start
the plane then turn the alt. switch of the master on, everything is ok.
> What is causing my fuse to blow?
> Thanks
> John Danielson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Starter/Starter Relay |
Hi gang,
My buddy called me yesterday to say that when he tried to restart my RV-4
after refueling, the starter circuit breaker popped off and continued to
pop out when re-trying the start. He pushed the plane back into the hanger
and went home. I came out this morning and, of course, the starter worked
just fine. In thinking out the problem, my conclusion is that the starter
itself did not make the 5 amp circuit breaker pop. Only the starter rely is
hooked to this circuit. I have not yet pulled off the cowling, and I do not
have an installed amp meter. I want to get a handle on the problem first.
Am I correct in thinking that the starter relay is the cause of the
overload? That it is having an intermittent shorting problem and that It
needs immediate replacement? Are there other probabilities or possibilities?
The little Mark Landoll starter has been running like a champ and always
turns the IO-360 over like a bat out of hell. This morning as well.
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF " Miss Viagra"
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Another Plane Is Born |
| From: | Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com> |
Ross: I hope your plane can carry all the weight.
Doyle Reed Flying RV7A 127 Hrs.
writes:
>
> N9PT has successfully made the transition from being a bundle of
> parts to an
> airplane. At 11:30 am, Nov 6, Mike Robertson, aka das fed, issued
> the
> special airworthiness certificate. Mike did a great job and was
> fantastic
> to work with.
>
> First flight is scheduled for Sunday, Nov 9, exactly 9 years after I
> picked
> my empennage kit up from Vans.
>
> Many thanks to the RV-List. My first post was June 14, 1995.
>
>
> Vital Statistics
>
> RV-6A (slow build obviously)
> N9PT (no significance. I picked it because its shortness and how
> it rolls
> off the tongue (Niner, Papa, Tango))
> New O360-A1A Lycoming
> New Hartzel Constant Speed Prop
> One Lightspeed Plasma II Electronic Ign, One Mag
> GRT Engine Monitor with fuel flow option
> TruTrack DFC 250
> Propriety Software AOA Pro II
> Dynon EFIS with remote compass
> Aviation Instruments Technology Mach III Air Data Computer
> Richie M2 electronic compass
> RC Allen Turn Coordinator
> Electronic International Super Clock
> Bob Nuckolls Voltage/Loadmeter
> Apollo Full Stack
> MX20 MFD
> GX60 GPS/Com
> SL15 Audio/CD/Playback
> SL70 Transponder
> SL30 Nav/Com
> Annunciator
> Mid-Continent CDI
> Electric aileron/elevator trim and flaps
> Infinity Aerospace Grip (pilot only, co-pilot unwired w/ Mac grip)
> PTT---Trigger
> Aileron/elevator trim hat
> Flaps down and up with limit switch for automatic shut off
> Comm1 flip/flop and playback for my SL15
> TruTrack Control Wheel Autopilot Switch
> Previous/next screens on my GRT engine monitor
> Standard Nav and Com 1 antenna
> Archer Wingtip Com II and Marker Beacon Antennas
> All Electric, one battery, B&C 40 amp alternator and backup B&C SD-8
> PM
> Alternator
> Wired as per Bob Nuckolls "All Electric On A Budget"....with some
> tweaks
> Hot bus, essential bus, main bus
> Leather, tempra foam seats by Becky Orndorff
> Panel by Steve Davis, Panel Pilot
> Hooker Harness Seat Belts
> Andair Gasolator
> Safecraft Chrome Halon Fire Extinguisher
> Stewart Warner oil cooler
> Earls SS oil and gas hoses
> Whelan Strobes
> Mountain High Portable O2 with Kevlar tank
>
> Ross Mickey
> N9PT....flying...almost
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
Mine occasionally does this too.... & I don't thave a clue......
Doug Rozendaal
----- Original Message -----
From: <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Alternator
>
> Just recently my alternator has been acting up.
> Problem: I have vans 35 amp alterntor and a cessna style master switch. I
have been flying my RV with setup for 155 hours before the problem occured.
> With both switches of the master on, I engage the starter and the plane
starts, the alt. field fuse blows. If I turn the alt. switch off and start
the plane then turn the alt. switch of the master on, everything is ok.
> What is causing my fuse to blow?
> Thanks
> John Danielson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: invisible hinge oil door...questionable assembly/painting |
Sorry I didn't respond sooner, I was busy all day helping a local RV-7A
builder seal & rivet a tank. Not as bad as I remember, but sure glad I'm
well past all that! 8-)
Just for the archive, here are the concealed hinge part #s:
#11205A35 - $3.60ea, Weldable Concealed Hinge Type 304 Stainless Steel,
51/64" Wide, .075" Thick
#11205A36 - $7.45ea, Weldable Concealed Hinge Type 304 Stainless Steel,
1-1/4" Wide, .090" Thick
I used the small ones. If anybody wants the two bigger ones they're yours
for 10 bucks for both, shipping to anywhere in the 48 US included. I paid
$14.90 plus tax for 'em. First come first serve. 8-)
I think the bigger ones would work well for a wingtip locker door or
something like that. I felt they were a little too big and heavy for the
oil door app.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W" <chrisw3(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: invisible hinge oil door...questionable
assembly/painting
>
> Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> >
> > Hey Dan,
> >
> > How about a part number for these hinges. I need a couple of em.
> >
>
> I thought I would try and give Dan a bit of a break from answering all the
email
> his site generates . If you look on his site he has a search function.
> http://www.rvproject.com/search.html go there and do a search for "oil
door",
> and you will quickly find this page that has the mcmaster.com part
numbers.
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/20031029.html
>
>
> --
> Chris Woodhouse
> 3147 SW 127th St.
> Oklahoma City, OK 73170
> 405-691-5206
> chrisw(at)programmer.net
> N35 20.492'
> W97 34.342'
>
> "They that can give up essential liberty
> to obtain a little temporary safety
> deserve neither liberty nor safety."
> -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Analog Module Installation |
Jordan,
I've got an ACS2002 in my RV-7 tip-up -- animal of a different breed than
you asked for, but I still have a suggestion. I mounted mine on angle
"rails" running longitudinally between the sub-panel bottom flange and the
top firewall stiffener angle. I'm already regretting it.
Here are some photos of where I put mine:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030602.html
If I had to do it again, I would mount the analog box on a hinged plate (or
hinged rails), hinged at the firewall so it can drop down for easy
maintenance. I found that it's an ideal location, I just dread having to
work on it...since mine is facing up, and the thought of using a mirror and
a small screwdriver from below is a little annoying...hope I don't have to
do any work on the thing.
Like many people hinge their fuse blocks (I didn't), I'd do the same thing
for the ACS2002 analog box. Leave enough of a service loop on each sensor
wire, run 'em through an adel clamp in the corner, and hinge that puppy.
Will definitely do it that way next time.
I did find that some of the sensor wires were shorter than I would have
liked, which was a factor in choosing where I mounted the box. Now I'm not
intimidated by wiring at all, so I wouldn't let that play into the equation
next time either. Extending a sensor wire is no big deal.
Anyway, I hope this RV-7 tip-up perspective helps your RV-6A slider
situation. 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jordan Grant" <jgrant(at)sw.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Analog Module Installation
>
> Listers:
> I just got my ACS2002 engine monitor and I am contemplating where
I can
> mount the Analog Module in the airplane. Is there anyone out there with
the
> ACS2002 installed in an RV-6 Slider? I would like to know where you
mounted
> the module and how its been working for you.
>
> Thanks,
> Jordan Grant
> RV-6 - working on the panel
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Analog Module Installation |
Here is a photo of the ACS 2002 installation in my 7A slider.
http://members.aol.com/N67BT/behindpanel.htm
Bob Trumpfheller
PS, to review my very simple RV7A update web page go to:
http://members.aol.com/N67BT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
Hi John,
I don't know what is causing the fuse to blow, but if you have the Cessna
Split Master switch I read in Light Plane Maintenance that it is preferable
to start the engine with the Alternator Field "OFF" then once the engine
starts turn the Alternator Field "ON". The reason for this was that it takes
2 amps off the battery power capacity to provide the field with a charge.
This power is not used to start the engine and it does not contribute to
charging the battery until the engine is turning faster. In my -8 I have the
split switch and I start it with the battery only and then switch on the
Alternator Field. This also allows me to check the battery voltage and
verify that the Alternator kicks in by watching the Volts gauge. So what I'm
saying is that I believe it is perfectly acceptable to start with the Alt
Field OFF then turn it on when the engines running.
Good Luck- I would definitely find the cause of the fuse tripping though.
Ed Perry
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: <JDaniel343(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Alternator
>
> Just recently my alternator has been acting up.
> Problem: I have vans 35 amp alterntor and a cessna style master switch. I
have been flying my RV with setup for 155 hours before the problem occured.
> With both switches of the master on, I engage the starter and the plane
starts, the alt. field fuse blows. If I turn the alt. switch off and start
the plane then turn the alt. switch of the master on, everything is ok.
> What is causing my fuse to blow?
> Thanks
> John Danielson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bringing airplane into USA |
I think you got ahold of a customs person that is not very knowledgeable
about aircraft. Aircraft engines to not have to meet any emissions
standards at this time. If you want to go further though I would get ahold
of Rotax themselves and ask about it.
Mike Robertson
>From: JDaniel343(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Bringing airplane into USA
>Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2003 17:55:32 -0500
>
>
>A friend and I just returned from Cranbrook, BC Canada, just north of
>Kalispel, MT. My RV-6 got us there in 4 hours flat from Casper, WY. What
>great country and people. Know I can say I have flown to another country.
>My friend is purchasing a Avid MK III with a 582 Rotax. The airplane is
>registered in Canada and bringing the plane back into the USA does not seem
>a problem. The plane was built and flown in Canada all its life.
>The problem arises about bringing the engine into the USA. US Customs wants
>a paper stating that it meets USA emmision Standards.
>Question: where does one obtain a copy of this? Has any one else delt with
>this issue before?
>
>
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
| Subject: | Over the fence at 70 |
I wonder - we are both talking KIAS right? Stall is mid forties as I remember
and this would make a normal stabilised approach just below 60 KIAS using the
usual 1.3 Vso. I've only flown a 9 once - the factory demonstrator - and it was
very stable in slow flight indeed. I certainly experienced no difficulties
at all at speeds in the 60's.
This is most certainly not meant to be contentious or a flame and my experience
is limited but the implication that a 9 cannot be flown 'comfortably' at 60 to
65 KIAS is of great surprise to me and some concern as well, for if this is
true I am not building the plane I thought I was.
Are there any other 9 drivers who can contribute their experiences?
Rob
Subject: Re: RV9-List: Over the fence at 70 ........
From: "Larry PERRYMAN" <larry.perryman(at)atofina.com>
11/07/2003 03:31:52 PM,
Serialize complete at 11/07/2003 03:31:52 PM
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Larry PERRYMAN"
Rob,
If you are comfortable with those speeds then use them. It will shorten
your roll. My only problem is getting it down that slow.
Regards,
Larry Perryman
N194DL
"Rob W M Shipley"
Sent by: owner-rv9-list-server(at)matronics.com
11/06/2003 07:13 PM
Please respond to rv9-list
To: "RV9-List Digest Server"
cc:
Subject: RV9-List: Over the fence at 70 ........
--> RV9-List message posted by: "Rob W M Shipley"
I'm still building and have no opportunity to land a 9 yet but for a plane
with a stall in the mid 40s and reportedly very stable handling 70 sounds
rather high. I used 60 - 65 in the Cherokees and 152s and would not
expect to use higher speeds in a slipperier (?) plane with a similar stall
speed.
Is anyone using slower speeds?
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AnywhereMap airspace warning |
For those using Control Vision's AnywhereMap you should not rely on it's
Class B & C airspace depictions without verifying it against current
charts. The latest database download does not show the new Houston Class
B airspace correctly, missing (at least) the new East-West approach
corridors that went into effect 10/30. In discussions with CV about the
problem I was disturbed to discover that it is further reaching with
problems reported on the forums with ABQ & ISP Class C and DEN & BOS
Class B. CV's contention is that the problems are in the "government
data" and they are "working on it" but some of these are long standing
(multi-year). Responding to a forum question on busting airspace they
doubted a defence of "corrupted government data" would hold up since
they are not certified. Since CV makes a big deal out of having SFR
updates 4 times a day in seems inconguous that they let known B & C
problems go unresolved for so long without even warning their users. If
it truely is a data problem and not CV's handling then it could extend
to other manufacturers units. I've been holding off updating my panel
mount so I can't verify if the Jepp data has the same problem. Since
it's approach certified, I would hope it's correct.I always carry
current charts but have certainly been guilty of reliance on the moving
maps for airspace boundaries. Maybe this is part of the reason the Jepp
updates are more expensive. As always YMMV, caveat emptor, etc.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch |
| Subject: | AnywhereMap airspace warning |
>For those using Control Vision's AnywhereMap you should not rely on it's
>Class B & C airspace depictions without verifying it against current
>charts. ...
This is not new. Unfortunately you should never completely trust any
of these new-fangled electronic charts. Remember this warning from
the AOPA earlier this year?
JEPPESEN REPORTS AIRSPACE BOUNDARY PROBLEMS
About 350 airspace boundaries contained in Jeppesen NavData are incorrect,
the FAA has warned. The error occurred at Jeppesen after a software
upgrade when information was pulled from a database containing 20,000
airspace boundaries worldwide for the March NavData update, which takes
effect March 20. Only a dozen are in the United States, including Chicago;
Louisville, Kentucky; Fayetteville, North Carolina; Santa Ana, California;
Las Vegas; Honolulu; Des Moines; and Oklahoma City. The error could cause
pilot alerts to be given by GPS units too early or too late. Pilots are
advised to use multiple sources of information, such as carrying paper
charts (Jeppesen paper charts are unaffected by the problem), and contacting
controlling agencies by radio to avoid airspace violations. Jeppesen has
provided a searchable database of locations with airspace boundary errors
on its Web site ( http://www.aopa.org/epilot/redir.cfm?adid=1875 ). To
search, click on the binocular icon and enter an airport identifier.
Jeppesen spokesman Mike Pound said the errors will be corrected "for the
next possible release." The next release is scheduled for April 17.
Of course, the most dangerous (for your ticket, and your life) is to
ignore a Presidental TFR, which will not be in your electronic
chart anyway.
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 Engine Monitor Analog Module Installation |
Jordon,
A RV-9A builder I am helping mounted it on the floor just aft of the firewall and
covered it with a sheet metal top. The DB-37 connector is forward. Accessibility
is very good.
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A
Jordan Grant wrote:
>
> Listers:
> I just got my ACS2002 engine monitor and I am contemplating where I can
> mount the Analog Module in the airplane. Is there anyone out there with the
> ACS2002 installed in an RV-6 Slider? I would like to know where you mounted
> the module and how its been working for you.
>
> Thanks,
> Jordan Grant
> RV-6 - working on the panel
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AnywhereMap airspace warning |
mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch wrote:
> This is not new. Unfortunately you should never completely trust any
> of these new-fangled electronic charts.
> Of course, the most dangerous (for your ticket, and your life) is to
> ignore a Presidental TFR, which will not be in your electronic
> chart anyway.
Or on your old fashioned paper charts........
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Jerry's tall tale, er tail |
Hey Jerry,
How about a pirep on the new tall tail on your 6?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WPAerial(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Over the fence at 70 |
you will need to find out about each airplane. if you find what your
airplanes 1-g stall is(desending at 500' per min) than 1.4 times that would be
a good
starting point. with this you could start getting a feel for it. each plane
could be different.
Jerry Wilken
N699WP
Albany Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com> |
| Subject: | OT-Building a RV is going to pay off |
NIGERIAN_BODY (2.7 points) Message body has multiple indications of Nigerian
spam
RVers'
I got an e-mail the other day that I thought you guys might get a kick
out of. Mr. Michael Smith from South Africa is a RV 6A builder and he's
going to make me rich, rich, rich!
***
Greetings from South Africa,
How are you and your family I hope that you are all okay? I want to ask
you, If you are not capable to quietly look for a reliable and honest
person who will be capable and fit to provide either an existing bank
account or to set up a new Bank a/c immediately to receive this money, even
an empty a/c can serve to receive this money, as long as you will remain
honest to me till the end for this important business trusting in you and
believing in God that you will never let me down either now or in future.
I am a homebuilder and presently I have an RV-6A I built with my friend and
I am contacting you as a fellow RV enthusiast
I am the Auditor in charge of international transaction in one of the
biggest bank here in South Africa. During the course of our auditing, I
discovered a floating fund in an account opened in the bank in 1996 and
since 1998 nobody has operated on this account again, after going through
some old files in the records I discovered that the owner of the account
died without a [Heir/WILL] hence the money is floating and if I do not
remit this money out urgently it will be forfeited for nothing. The owner
of this account Mr. Victor Ratnavale a British, who unfortunately lost his
life in the plane crash of Swiss Air Flight Number 111 which crashed on 2nd
September 1998, including his wife. You shall read more news about the
crash on visiting this site;
http://users.aol.com/dharris498/swissair111/victims.html.
No other person knows about this account or any thing concerning it, the
account has no other beneficiary and my investigation proved to me as well
that the account is a secret account.
The total amount involve is Eighteen million Six Hundred Thousand United
States Dollars only [$18,600.000.00] and we wish to transfer this money
into a safe foreigners account abroad. But I don't know any foreigner, I am
only contacting you as a foreigner because this money can not be approved
to a local person here, but to a foreigner who has information about the
account, which I shall give to you upon your positive response. I am
revealing this to you with believe in God that you will never let me down
in this business, you are the first and the only person that I am
contacting for this business, so please reply urgently so that I will
inform you the next step to take urgently.
I need your strong assurance that you will never let us down, me and a key
bank official who is deeply involved with me in this business. I guarantee
that this transaction will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that
will protect you from any breach of the law. I will destroy all documents
of transaction immediately we receive this money leaving no trace to any
place. I will use my position and influence to obtain all legal approvals
for onward transfer of this money to your account with appropriate
clearance from the relevant ministries and foreign exchange departments.
At the conclusion of this business, you will be given 30% of the total
amount, 70% will be for us. Further details awaits your earliest reply.
PLEASE, TREAT THIS PROPOSAL AS TOP SECRET.
Best Regards
Michael Smith.
*************
Man, if this deal works out, I'll build another RV
Now, something that may be of value to RVers.
My airplane replacement is a new 2003 Dodge Diesel Quad cab and I'm on a
couple of Dodge diesel forums. One of the guys there is selling "Magic
Cloths", 2 for $12.00. They are about 14 inces square. The tag on the
cloth says "The Original Euro-Shine microfiber". This cloth works very
well for cleaning bugs off my truck and for cleaning windshields and
mirrors. It works well dry, too. After using the cloths on my truck, I
"flashed back" to when I used to clean bugs off my RV after every flight
during the summer in Nebraska. I had a bunch of clean, terry cloth towels
and a jug of water that I kept in the hanger and I wiped the bugs off while
they were fresh after every flight. I think these cloths would be ideal
for this and would clean airplanes up with a lot less effort. It might be
something a few of you might want to try and, if it works as well on
airplanes as I think it will, pass the info onto your fellow RVers. The
guy I bought from is David Miller, 516-371-9021, e-mail dcmille290(at)aol.com.
He travels in his work so is not always available. You could possibly to
a search and find another source, as well.
Speaking of "flash back", I use the "Dry Wash & Guard" I bought for the
RV (works really well on the canopy) on my vehicles and every time I smell
the stuff, I flash back to all of the times I used it on my RV. I almost
get teary-eyed:)
Bob Skinner
Buffalo, WY (Former RV6 guy and EAA Tech Counselor"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over the fence at 70 |
>
>you will need to find out about each airplane. if you find what your
>airplanes 1-g stall is(desending at 500' per min) than 1.4 times
>that would be a good
>starting point. with this you could start getting a feel for it. each plane
>could be different.
>
>Jerry Wilken
Jerry's point that each aircraft is different is important, and often
not properly understood. Each aircraft has its own airspeed errors,
its own drag from the prop, its own weight and CG, its own elevator
and flap angles, etc. And its own pilot, airfield altitude, etc.
In the certification world we test the suitability of a recommended
approach speed by deliberately doing an approach (in smooth
conditions) at 5 kt less than the recommended speed with max forward
CG and the most critical weight, and making sure we have sufficient
elevator authority to flare without requiring unusual pilot skill or
an unusual technique (i.e. use the same technique as for a landing at
the recommended speed). Doing a successful approach at 5 kt less
than the recommended speed ensures that there is some margin for the
day that the pilot is not flying accurately, or there is a small wind
shear on short final. The most critical weight for this test is max
landing weight if you plan the same speed for all weights, or
lightest possible weight if you plan to schedule the landing speed
with weight.
Of course you would want to sneak up on this minimum approach speed
gently, doing a series of tests with the approach speed a couple of
knots less each time.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Puckett <rv8er(at)concentric.net> |
| Subject: | Baffle kit instructions needed |
Hello,
Well, with all of the delay in completing my RV-8, my baffle kit and
their instructions have gone their separate ways. At least it was just
the instructions I have misplaced and not the kit :-).
After searching the archives and reading some of the complaints some
have with these instructions maybe I don't want them but after staring
at the drawing for 30 minutes I think I need them.
Does anyone have the latest instructions in electronic format that they
could email me with???
Thanks,
Greg Puckett 80081 wires and firewall fwd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT-Building a RV is going to pay offNIGERIAN_BODY (2.7 |
points) Message body has multiple indications of Nigerian spam
Bob,
Can I have your RV-6, since with all those millions you'll probably be
buying a Lear or something?
Chuck
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Skinner <bskinner(at)vcn.com>
Subject: RV-List: OT-Building a RV is going to pay offNIGERIAN_BODY (2.7
points) Message body has multiple indications of Nigerian spam
>
> RVers'
>
> I got an e-mail the other day that I thought you guys might get a kick
> out of. Mr. Michael Smith from South Africa is a RV 6A builder and he's
> going to make me rich, rich, rich!
>
> ***
>
> Greetings from South Africa,
>
> How are you and your family I hope that you are all okay? I want to ask
> you, If you are not capable to quietly look for a reliable and honest
> person who will be capable and fit to provide either an existing bank
> account or to set up a new Bank a/c immediately to receive this money,
even
> an empty a/c can serve to receive this money, as long as you will remain
> honest to me till the end for this important business trusting in you and
> believing in God that you will never let me down either now or in future.
> I am a homebuilder and presently I have an RV-6A I built with my friend
and
> I am contacting you as a fellow RV enthusiast
>
> I am the Auditor in charge of international transaction in one of the
> biggest bank here in South Africa. During the course of our auditing, I
> discovered a floating fund in an account opened in the bank in 1996 and
> since 1998 nobody has operated on this account again, after going through
> some old files in the records I discovered that the owner of the account
> died without a [Heir/WILL] hence the money is floating and if I do not
> remit this money out urgently it will be forfeited for nothing. The owner
> of this account Mr. Victor Ratnavale a British, who unfortunately lost his
> life in the plane crash of Swiss Air Flight Number 111 which crashed on
2nd
> September 1998, including his wife. You shall read more news about the
> crash on visiting this site;
> http://users.aol.com/dharris498/swissair111/victims.html.
>
> No other person knows about this account or any thing concerning it, the
> account has no other beneficiary and my investigation proved to me as well
> that the account is a secret account.
>
> The total amount involve is Eighteen million Six Hundred Thousand United
> States Dollars only [$18,600.000.00] and we wish to transfer this money
> into a safe foreigners account abroad. But I don't know any foreigner, I
am
> only contacting you as a foreigner because this money can not be approved
> to a local person here, but to a foreigner who has information about the
> account, which I shall give to you upon your positive response. I am
> revealing this to you with believe in God that you will never let me down
> in this business, you are the first and the only person that I am
> contacting for this business, so please reply urgently so that I will
> inform you the next step to take urgently.
>
> I need your strong assurance that you will never let us down, me and a key
> bank official who is deeply involved with me in this business. I
guarantee
> that this transaction will be executed under a legitimate arrangement that
> will protect you from any breach of the law. I will destroy all documents
> of transaction immediately we receive this money leaving no trace to any
> place. I will use my position and influence to obtain all legal approvals
> for onward transfer of this money to your account with appropriate
> clearance from the relevant ministries and foreign exchange departments.
>
> At the conclusion of this business, you will be given 30% of the total
> amount, 70% will be for us. Further details awaits your earliest reply.
> PLEASE, TREAT THIS PROPOSAL AS TOP SECRET.
>
> Best Regards
>
> Michael Smith.
>
> *************
>
> Man, if this deal works out, I'll build another RV
>
>
> Now, something that may be of value to RVers.
>
> My airplane replacement is a new 2003 Dodge Diesel Quad cab and I'm on a
> couple of Dodge diesel forums. One of the guys there is selling "Magic
> Cloths", 2 for $12.00. They are about 14 inces square. The tag on the
> cloth says "The Original Euro-Shine microfiber". This cloth works very
> well for cleaning bugs off my truck and for cleaning windshields and
> mirrors. It works well dry, too. After using the cloths on my truck, I
> "flashed back" to when I used to clean bugs off my RV after every flight
> during the summer in Nebraska. I had a bunch of clean, terry cloth towels
> and a jug of water that I kept in the hanger and I wiped the bugs off
while
> they were fresh after every flight. I think these cloths would be ideal
> for this and would clean airplanes up with a lot less effort. It might be
> something a few of you might want to try and, if it works as well on
> airplanes as I think it will, pass the info onto your fellow RVers. The
> guy I bought from is David Miller, 516-371-9021, e-mail
dcmille290(at)aol.com.
> He travels in his work so is not always available. You could possibly to
> a search and find another source, as well.
> Speaking of "flash back", I use the "Dry Wash & Guard" I bought for the
> RV (works really well on the canopy) on my vehicles and every time I smell
> the stuff, I flash back to all of the times I used it on my RV. I almost
> get teary-eyed:)
>
> Bob Skinner
>
> Buffalo, WY (Former RV6 guy and EAA Tech Counselor"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter/Starter Relay |
>
>Hi gang,
>
>My buddy called me yesterday to say that when he tried to restart my RV-4
>after refueling, the starter circuit breaker popped off and continued to
>pop out when re-trying the starter.
I'd begin by considering whether heat isn't part of the problem chain. You
could try again to restart while hot. If it fuse blows, then I'd
disconnect the solenoid and try again. If it still blows wire is
shorted. If starter operates okay then - intermitant problems are difficult.
Maybe it would help to measure current passing thru the fuse to see if 5 A
is really enough fuse?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Help - tip-up canopy latch slot dimensions |
Guys ... I need some help with RV-6 plan dimensions...
I was ready to cut the slot in the left fuselage side for the canopy latch,
and I found some dimension 'anomalies' with my plans set (even though they
were recently updated).
Sheet 51 give a dimension of 1 3/8 (1.375 inches) from the aft side of the
F-604 bulkhead to the front edge of the canopy latch angles (C-612). But
if I use this dimension, then the C-615 spring and the C-616 rod will be
too short, and not fit into the hole in F-604.
I'm guessing that the 1 3/8 dimension should be to the forward edge of the
front 'latch' piece C-609, but this is only a guess.
Does anyone have a dimension that works for this assembly? I don't want
to cut slots in my nice clean fuselage side in the wrong spot...:
(
NOTE ... this is an old RV-6A original very slow build kit, and the wing
spar bulkhead is different on the later RV-7s....
....thanks for any help..... gil in Tucson
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Richter <richterrbb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Is this thing on? |
Is this just a really slow weekend, or have my subscriptions died for
some reason? I've gotten zero posts this weekend.
Just wondering.
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Salute to our Mil Aviators (OT) |
Boyd Braem wrote:
>
>Tom--
>
>That's why you guys got the smokeless engine because "G" is an
>advanced replacement over the "J"--yeah--stick a frog in my throat.
>Tho, I do love you--except you AF guys have this bad habit of having
>better quarters than the Navy guys--that's why we always overnighted at
>an AF base--esp. in TX where they trained the nurses.
>
>
Yeah, but the Navy had better food!! Hmmm. Where did those pounds come
from???
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Salute to our Mil Heroes |
How appropriate! I just received this link on sea life:
http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1483260750
Turn the sound up and check it out! You'll be glad you did.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
I'm looking for a Hartwell latch that has the round push lever instead of the rectangular
spring loaded one seen in ACS. There is a part number on this broken
one that I have of H601S-100-C356. Anyone know of a source for this?
Dave Ford
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Neil McLeod <neilmcleod(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: hartwell latch |
I've never seen one in a catalog but I was just looking at such a latch this
afternoon my friends Mooney 201 and thinking that it would be perfect for
the RV oil door as well. Maybe an aircraft salvage yard if the part form
Mooney is too $$$$.
Neil McLeod
RV7 qb finishing
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: hartwell latch
>
> I'm looking for a Hartwell latch that has the round push lever instead of
the rectangular spring loaded one seen in ACS. There is a part number on
this broken one that I have of H601S-100-C356. Anyone know of a source for
this?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6 finishing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Alternator Bracket failure |
At oil change this weekend I noticed a complete failure of my stock blue anodized
aluminum alternator bracket, with a crack across both halves of the arm at
the far end of the belt tension adjustment slot, just above the bolt which locks
the alternator into final position. Because the belt holds the broken pieces
in tension, there was no significant displacement of the parts, and I have
no way of knowing how long it may have been like this. I suspect this is a vibration-related
failure possibly originating from a stress riser where the bolt
head/washer may have galled the bracket. I believe the alternator boss position
also places some lateral bending stress on this arm, as it is not in perfect
alignment with the plane of the engine case's boss. That's if my memory of
the installation serves me correctly after 5 years. FWIW, my v-belt is of a
length that requires the alternator to be bolted at maximum distance down the
slot to adequately tension the belt. I will be ordering a replacement from Van's,
which will be radiused along the edges of the slot (the original was shipped
quite roughly machined and anodized, and I neglected to deburr it before
installation.) Meanwhile, after a bit of boy scout lashing with safety wire,
I went flying with the bracket as is, and had an uneventful 1 hour local flight.
Just giving everyone a heads-up and wondering if this had ever come up before.
-Bill Boyd
RV-6A 335 hrs TT Lyc O-320-E2D Sensenich FP prop, Van's 35A Alternator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Altoq <altoq(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Salute to our Mil Heroes |
I feel Better. Thank you.
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Salute to our Mil Heroes
>
> How appropriate! I just received this link on sea life:
>
> http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=1483260750
>
> Turn the sound up and check it out! You'll be glad you did.
>
> Linn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | N9PT First Flight |
N9PT flew for the first time today. 9 years to the day of when I picked my emp
kit up from Vans.
One hour of joy and uneventful flying. No heavy wing, aileron in trim, and no
trim tab needed on the rudder. All engine parameters good. Indicated airspeed
at 45 degrees F, 2,000 feet, 24" manifold pressure and 2400 rpm's was 168 knots.
No flap stall speed was 38 knots.
Only squawk,so far, the GRT engine monitor goes wierd when I transmit on Comm 2
which is my wingtip antenna.
Keep building.
Thanks again,
Ross
N9PT...Flying!!!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Smith <dave(at)rv10project.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brushing on Iridite 14-2 Question |
Charlie,
I'm not sure why anything would bounce. I leave my email up all the
time, so I'm always cleaning out the inbox. I have 50mb of storage for
my email, and I don't have any msgs sitting there, so I should have been
able to receive it. If you would, please try a test msg and let's see
if that goes sans attachments.
The recovery I'm talking about is converting the liquid back into powder
form, which can be re-used. I'm not sure how it's done yet, but I've
been told it's possible.
Linn,
I just started calling chemical companies that were listed in my yellow
pages, and started asking who carries McDermid. 1st call I made got me
to an Alodine rep, and he gave me the # for the Iridite rep. Friendly
folks, but they don't deal in this stuff a lot, so whenever I ask a
question, there's a delay of a day or two to get an answer.
--
Dave
http://www.rv10project.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
Dana,
I'm presently considering gluing the canopy on for my 9 tipper. A couple of samples
would be most useful.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
Subject: RV-List: Canopy samples
If anyone wants a sample of canopy material to test, play, drill, scratch,
buff, hammer, bend, break or just drill and rivet with until you get yours
in let me know off the list. Come Tuesday all this scrap stuff gets
pitched.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim and Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com> |
My RV-6A stalls at 38 KIAS. This was verified by a four way GPS groundspeed check.
I know that is a bit slow compared to the stock RV, but I have several home
made fairings and the plane is very clean. I can fly at 50 KIAS and roll
to 60 degrees and back the other way to 60 degrees without any problem. I use
60 KIAS for approach solo and 65 KIAS for dual. For gusty conditions, I add
1/2 the gust. That works good for me. BTW, my stalls are a non-event. As soon
as I relax the back pressure on the stick, I am flying again. The nose never
gets below the horizon and I don't loose any altitude. I also have the Proprietary
System AOA and that keeps me safe with a wake up call if my speed gets
too slow. I too, flew the -9, and think that 60 KIAS has plenty of margin against
a stall.
Jim Cone
#2 RV-6A flying, soon to be for sale.
#3 RV-7A working on the finishing kit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garey Wittich <gareywittich2000(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | A GUIDE TO AIRCRAFT PAINTING & CORROSION CONTROL |
THIS IS NOT "SPAM", but from a Real RV-8A Builder with
a lot of information to share - to help others.
--------------------------------------------------
SAVE YOURSELF hundreds of hours of research time and
building time, by using the comprehensive
"Guide to Painting & Corrosion Control of Aluminum and
Composite Aircraft"
This book took over 600+ hours of research time, by a
fussy RV-8A Builder. Contains 64 pages of the latest,
practical information - summarized and gathered from
MIL Standards, Paint Shops, Builders like you (what
worked or didn't), Airframe Mfgs, etc. Covers
products from PP&G, Dupont, Sherwin W'ms, Sterling,
Poly Fiber, Deft, Randolph Paints, PRC De Soto, US
Paints, Aircraft Finishing Systems, 3M, etc.
Some of the Topics covered in the 30 Sections are:
* Aircraft Paints vs Auto Paints and Other
Considerations
* Corrosion Control
* Spray Guns - selecting, adjusting, using
and painting problems
* Brushes / Rollers used with Primers &
Paints
* Prep Methods for Painting - Fiberglass,
Steel and Aluminum
* Epoxy Primers for Aluminum - MIL &
Commercial, Solvent & Water Reducible
* Primers for Fiberglass & Steel
* Wash Primers & Self Etching Primers
* Other Primers - Zinc Chromate,Zinc Oxide,
Enamel
* Paint Types: MIL & Non MIL Polyurethanes
Enamel Types
Acrylics - Lacquers & Enamels
* Acid Etch / Conversion Coatings (Alodine)
* Selecting a Paint Shop
* 3M Cleaning Pads, Liquid Cleaner
compatibility
* Paint Booths and their Construction
* References - MIL Standards & Tech Orders
* Directory of Aircraft Paint Mfgs, Distrib-
utors, etc. E-Mail addresses, phone
numbers, Application Notes
YOUR AIRPLANE is judged by it's Paint Job and it is
costly too, so have the latest "Information" in order
to make good decisions. Contains plenty of "Do's" and
"Don'ts" that save time, money and frustration.
Send a check for $25 to (includes Postage within the
US) to:
Garey Wittich
58 Village Parkway
Santa Monica, CA. 90405
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
Dear Listers,
Below are some of the nice things people have been saying about the Lists
in that little message box on the Contribution form! Thank you to everyone
that has made a Contribution thus far and for all the great
feedback! Please know that I really appreciate the comments and support!!
If you haven't yet shown your support for these Lists, won't you take a
moment and make your Contribution today? The Matronics Lists are always
Commercial-Free, SPAM-Free, Virus-Free, and High-performance and its your
direct support through this yearly Fund Raiser that enables all of these
valuable services you've come to expect.
Thank you for your Contribution!!
SSL Secure Web Site - http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Matt Dralle
EMail List Administrator
===============================================================
=================== What Listers Are Saying ===================
===============================================================
You provide a service to us kit builders that cannot be measured.
-Clifford M.
...great service to the aviation community.
-Curt R.
Thanks for being there - your List has really been of help.
-Thomas R.
Your lists have been most helpful to my RV-9A project.
-Dean V.
...has been a great help to me.
-Jim N.
..."must-have" for RV builders and pilots.
-Douglas W.
I find something every day on the List that helps me in my project.
-Ron P.
...very valuable!
-Patrick L.
Don't know that I could have persevered and succeeded without the List.
-Curt R.
...service continues to be awesome and is one of the most helpful resources
for homebuilding that I have ever found.
-Jim H.
The information and hours of entertainment many of us derive from the Lists
is priceless.
-Chris R.
I learn a lot about my [aircraft] through the Lists...
- Lee P.
Great source of education and entertainment. Love it!!!
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Great List & very well organized.
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The List is an important part of my daily routine.
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...incredible resource.
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Excellent facility.
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...unmatched service to all builders and flyers.
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Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Desoprime CA7700 |
Listers,
Is there anyone out there that has actually used PPG Concept topcoat
over Desoprime CA7700. Or better yet is there anyone that's used Desothane
CA8800 as a topcoat and would like to inform me of the result.
I'm getting ready to order a kit from the Indianapolis office, I've got
to be set up as a customer. The price is right, $158.00 per kit. But it's a
five week wait.
The advantages of using Desoprime seem to outweigh the waiting period
to get it. But if it's not compatible with various automotive topcoats, I'll
go back to Variprime.
I do know that after 1100 hrs the Variprime and Zinc Chromate have held
up, but my RV4 lives in a heated hanger and it don't know what bugs are.
If you've used Desoprime and Desothane, or Desoprime and Concept. Please
e-mail me directly. If it's a bad review, I'll be able to stop the
transaction.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alan McKeen" <amckeen(at)twcny.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator Bracket failure |
My aluminum alternator bracket also failed with about 300 hour on it at the time
of discovery. The bracket cracked under one of the bolts attaching it to the
engine. The crack was difficult to see, but not impossible. The bolt held
the bracket together and the second bolt to engine appears to have been adequate
to hold the alternator in place. I replaced the aluminum bracket with the
universal two part steel bracket sold by Van's and Aircraft Spruce.
Alan McKeen
N418AL
600 Hours on the Hobbs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Recently I was able to test a new version of Trio's single roll axis
autopilot. www.trioavionics.com . I have been running the Navaid for
1000hrs and was pretty happy with it. It WAS the only game in town so I
really did not have any comparisons. Here are some things that have
always annoyed me about the Navaid unit.
1. I had have the gyro rebuilt
2. When you engaged the unit you had better hold on. There is no telling
what it might do. IT could roll into a 60 degree bank and scare the
bejesus out of you and your passenger before it gets stable and presses
on.
3. It was stable in turbulence, but not real stable.
4. Tracking was always off one way or another. Not by a lot, but always
off. More annoying than anything.
5. When I keyed up the mic, again you had better hold on. It could roll
you upside down.
6. When intercepting a course, it would overshoot, undershoot,
overshoot, undershoot until it got on course. IT would never nail it. If
you had an approach loaded, it would shoot you right through the FAF and
there was no hope of making the runway unless you got on the final
approach course miles before the FAF.
7. Every conversation with Navaid for the past 3 years about improving
their unit resulted in me ending the conversation with a feeling that
these guys will not be in business much longer.
So when I heard about this unit from Trio I contacted them immediately
and asked how I could get a hold of one. Jerry Hansen answered and we
hit it off right from the start. They were nearing readiness for a beta
test of their new 2 gyro unit and were looking for flyers. I had to pay
for the unit, but that was fine with me. I entered the beta program and
received the unit in the mail. Out of the box impressions were this:
1. It is small. It weighs less than 8oz(yes 8!)
2. The direct plug into my existing Navaid servo really was the right
plug!
3. It's small. Less than 3" deep.
After a recent complete panel overhaul (ripped out vacuum, installed 2nd
EI and ripped that ole last mag out, installed Dynon, Garmin 430, and
some other nifty items) I was ready for this new solid state gyro
technology. No gyros to replace, no tumbling the unit, no electric whine
to listen to. Just quiet reliable computer chips to crank away at the
data to fly me along. As a young guy, it just seems to make sense to me.
Electronic failures are almost unheard of with this type of equipment. I
have rebuilt my horizon 3 times, DG twice, and Navaid once in 1000
hours. I mean come on! This electronic solid state gyro stuff is the
future, and the future is now. Here are some of the cool features this
unit has:
1. A display has has data on it. At first I did not see this as any real
benefit until I flew it. My 430 moving map, and I am sure yours too,
displays important data fields that you use and need constantly. Ground
speed, track, distance to waypoint etc are all important. What is also
important is the moving map real estate space. Those fields take up
valuable real estate on the moving map. This trio displays those fields,
and cycles through others freeing up the moving map to use up all the
screen. This is extremely valuable. In fact, in my report to trio, I
recommended then add more display lines for more data to display.
2. Intercept mode. You can read the web site for what it does. Ill just
say it works just as advertised and is extremely accurate. Even if the
direction you need to go is behind you, it makes a real nice teardrop
course reversal and nails the course line. Obviously this thing is smart
and doing some pretty good math to handle that maneuver. Navaid would
not even drop me in the same county if tried that.
3. Adjustable course track. Dial in .97 deg. heading, and that's what
you will fly. In either the TRK or CRS mode, if the remote servo
disconnect switch is activated, you can fly to any new course desired
and, upon releasing the switch, the autopilot will enter the CRS mode
and track the new course over the ground. SO the next time you are told
turn 10 degrees left, you can either dial in 10 degrees left, or release
the servo, turn manually 10 left, and reengage the servo.
4. Excellent turbulence performance. It reacts so quickly, a noticeable
improvement over the Navaid.
5. Plugs in quickly to an existing Navaid servo. I am not kidding you
when I tell you that installation took less than 3 minutes. 4 screws and
the navaid dropped right out of the panel, and 4 screws and the Trio was
in and running. I already had a remote servo disconnect I used for the
Navaid. I moved 2 moles pins to take advantage of this feature in Trios
box and that was it. In minutes I was playing with running.
6. It accepts an "Aviation" data stream, as well as the NMEA format. But
the aviation data stream has much more info contained in it. Like
waypoint name etc. All can now be displayed on-screen, freeing up the
moving map space. This is great.
7. Communication and service has been very very good. They have already
implemented mine, and others recommendations. Some features now
available that I have not tried are: (taken from their website)
Selectable Track Offset Position (TOP)
While flight testing the autopilot and flying flight plans using
published airways, we often encountered other airplanes using the same
airway. While this was usually during climb or descent (for either us
or the opposing aircraft) it was a potential safety issue. As more
aircraft are using precision GPS receivers to navigate, and many are
coupled to autopilots, such close encounters are likely to increase.
For this reason, the EZ Pilot incorporates a Track Offset Position (TOP)
feature that allows the pilot to select a track offset of up to 1 mile.
This places the aircraft away from the course centerline where much of
the traffic might be found. It is interesting to note, that if all
aircraft positioned themselves to the right of the published course
centerline (for instance), opposing traffic would always be on the
opposite side of the centerline. Top
<http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Top>
Speed Controlled Bank Angle
A "standard rate turn" of 3 degrees per second may result in a
comfortable bank angle at 130 knots, but as speed increases the bank
angle must be increased to achieve the standard rate of turn. In faster
aircraft this steeper bank may be uncomfortable to some pilots and,
indeed, may exceed the capability of an altitude hold system to maintain
altitude properly in the turn. To remedy this, the EZ Pilot has a means
whereby the users can adjust the maximum rate of turn to their personal
satisfaction. When shipped, the EZ Pilot is defaulted to an
"automatic" mode where the actual turn rate is automatically adjusted
based on groundspeed (as measured by your GPS). For aircraft cruising
at groundspeeds of 140 knots or greater the automatic mode will decrease
the allowable turn rate to keep the aircraft bank angle at a comfortable
maximum of approximately 15 degrees. Slower speeds will allow a
standard rate turn of 3 degrees per second. Top
<http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Top>
Adjustable Bank Angle Limit
If your cruise groundspeed is typically less than 150 knots, or if you
do not mind the higher bank angles at the higher groundspeeds, you may
want to select the MANUAL mode. In the MANUAL mode you can set the
maximum turn rate to a fixed limit. It is adjustable from 1 degree/sec
to as high as 3 degree/sec, in increments of 1/10th degree/sec.
Emergency Course Reversal
In an effort to increase safety and save lives, this mode may be
implemented as an emergency aid to the VFR pilot who inadvertently
enters IMC conditions and needs to execute an immediate course reversal.
It is important to realize that the autopilot must be turned on and
receiving a good GPS data signal for proper operation. You may be
tracking a flight plan but a sudden IMC encounter may not leave you with
an opportunity to reprogram your GPS to invert the flight plan. This
procedure does not require you to adjust your GPS receiver. If you are
manually flying your aircraft, this procedure will also work because the
servo does not have to be engaged to initiate this emergency procedure.
The procedure is simple and straightforward. Press and hold the MODE
button for three seconds. That's all you need to do! After three
seconds the following will occur:
1 The servo will be energized (if off) and the wing leveler
function will engage.
2 The upper right display line will read "TRN 180"
3 The lower right display line will be forced to the turn
coordinator display
4. A 175 degree right course reversal will be executed
(Back to Mike Stewart's comments) All in all this is a tremendous value.
I'll be sending my unit in soon for the recent changes. There is one
notable item that is absolutely terrible, and that is the screen goes
completely blank in direct sunlight. I mean you can not read one item. A
quick hand over the unit and all is fine, but they will no doubt need to
address this soon. From Jerry here is what is in the works:
In the works:
Turbulence penetration enhancement incorporating a full roll coupled
gyro - Expected late 1st quarter 2004
LCD display option - Expected 1st quarter 2004
Altitude hold system +/- 20 feet vertical tracking - Expected 3rd
quarter 2004
(back to Mike Stewart's comments) Sam Buchanan and I are both real happy
with this thing and its performance. Sam has already spoken to his
interest in this unit in message number #116018. Electric spinning
gyro's are history and this company has a roll axis autopilot at a price
point that will put all others to shame. (Navaid are you listening? I
tried to tell you over the past 3 years you needed to look at this
stuff, and here it is!) I can't wait to see the new display and
integrated vertical guidance. One thing I don't have and wish I did was
altitude pre-select at a reasonable price. Altrak watch out, these guys
are knocking on your door. If I were your mother, and you are flying
your rv in anything other than severe clear local flights, I would make
you put one of these things in your plane. Not only will it take some
workload off, but it might save your A#@! one day.
Mike Stewart
6A 1100 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
| Subject: | Spinner for CS prop with counter weights |
Listers,
Having a problem finding a spinner that will fit my hartzell cs prop with
counter weights. Has anyone come up against this obstacle? Vans spinner will
not work. Any ideas would greatly be appreciated. Please respond offline.
Thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> Question |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine vs Iridite was Brushing on Iridite 14-2 |
Question
Hi Dave,
I was surprised by the bounce myself. If the Alodine distributor is a lot closer,
go with them. These two products are functionally identical. I've used both.
However, I would have to go out of state to get powdered Alodine, so I now
use the Iridite. (their distributor is 25 miles south of me) Both products are
great. Use whichever is easier to obtain.
Charlie
PS I wished I'd known that Isoprep 188 ( similar to AlumiPrep 33, PPG's DX533 and
DuPont's 225S) was available in powdered form back when I was buying it. :-(
>
>Charlie,
>
>I'm not sure why anything would bounce. I leave my email up all the
>time, so I'm always cleaning out the inbox. I have 50mb of storage for
>my email, and I don't have any msgs sitting there, so I should have been
>able to receive it. If you would, please try a test msg and let's see
>if that goes sans attachments.
>
>The recovery I'm talking about is converting the liquid back into powder
>form, which can be re-used. I'm not sure how it's done yet, but I've
>been told it's possible.
>
>Linn,
>
>I just started calling chemical companies that were listed in my yellow
>pages, and started asking who carries McDermid. 1st call I made got me
>to an Alodine rep, and he gave me the # for the Iridite rep. Friendly
>folks, but they don't deal in this stuff a lot, so whenever I ask a
>question, there's a delay of a day or two to get an answer.
>
>
>--
>
>Dave
>http://www.rv10project.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Milner" <tldrgred(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternator bracket failure |
My steel alternator bracket failed at about 150hrs. Repair welded and it`s good
yet at 375hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
> Recently I was able to test a new version of Trio's single roll axis
> autopilot. www.trioavionics.com .
:-)
> All in all this is a tremendous value.
> Sam Buchanan and I are both real happy
> with this thing and its performance. Sam has already spoken to his
> interest in this unit in message number #116018. Electric spinning
> gyro's are history and this company has a roll axis autopilot at a price
> point that will put all others to shame.
Just a footnote to Mike's report on the EX-Pilot; I have the latest
software version in my EZ-Pilot and the newest additions to the feature
set gives this puppy some tricks that are not available in any other
wing leveler, and probably not any other autopilot regardless of complexity.
As Mike stated, this autopilot really, really works nicely. Even though
I have supported and used the Navaid for over four years and 500 hrs,
(the Navaid was functioning properly when I retired it) the EZ-Pilot's
capabilities are far beyond what the Navaid can offer. And the fact that
the Navaid servo already buried in the wing of my RV-6 works perfectly
with the EX-Pilot made this upgrade a no-brainer.
I am really impressed with the responsiveness of Jerry, Chuck and the
rest of the Trio group in how they were receptive to the observations
made during the beta test phase of their system. The latest production
version of the software addresses all the minor issues found in testing,
and adds some cool stuff we hadn't even thought about! One really neat
feature is the "automatic 180"; even if the system is not engaged, as
long as it is receiving GPS data you can push one button and the plane
will instantly initiate a course reversal and lock on to the reciprocal
course in wing leveler mode. Might be just the ticket in case you lapse
into a brain fade and manage to stick the nose of the plane into
something you don't like.
Since the system is digital, it offers great flexibility in the way you
can program it for your needs. The way the unit intercepts courses and
rolls into turns can be customized to your taste and aircraft. We just
had another EZ-Pilot installed in one of the RVs at DCU and when I
checked on the pilot yesterday, he was all grins after returning from a
cross country lunch flight. This is a very capable system backed up by a
company that appears to be committed to the long haul and I think we are
going to see a bunch of EZ-Pilots in RVs in the months to come.
Sam Buchanan
new panel with EX-Pilot; http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
Michael: As with all new devices your account is interesting as we are
always looking for a better mouse trap. But in all fairness I felt that I
must reply to your many complaints with the Navaid. As a background with
Navaid on two RV's over the past ten years with a total of 900 hours, I am
yet to experience the problems you describe. If the unit is trimmed as
described in the directions it will track as any auto pilot wing leveler
will. In my case with my present RV, I use a portable GPS with a smart
coupler, an Altrac altitude hold and the system works very well. If
trimmed before engagement very little change noted. Never had a problem
with the gyro as you describe and feel it is an added back up in case of the
loss of VAC. By replacing the junk turn co-coordinators that we have had
to use in the past. No flame intended but felt we need more than one view.
Harvey Sigmon N602RV
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Subject: RV-List: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long)
>
> Recently I was able to test a new version of Trio's single roll axis
> autopilot. www.trioavionics.com . I have been running the Navaid for
> 1000hrs and was pretty happy with it. It WAS the only game in town so I
> really did not have any comparisons. Here are some things that have
> always annoyed me about the Navaid unit.
> 1. I had have the gyro rebuilt
> 2. When you engaged the unit you had better hold on. There is no telling
> what it might do. IT could roll into a 60 degree bank and scare the
> bejesus out of you and your passenger before it gets stable and presses
> on.
> 3. It was stable in turbulence, but not real stable.
> 4. Tracking was always off one way or another. Not by a lot, but always
> off. More annoying than anything.
> 5. When I keyed up the mic, again you had better hold on. It could roll
> you upside down.
> 6. When intercepting a course, it would overshoot, undershoot,
> overshoot, undershoot until it got on course. IT would never nail it. If
> you had an approach loaded, it would shoot you right through the FAF and
> there was no hope of making the runway unless you got on the final
> approach course miles before the FAF.
> 7. Every conversation with Navaid for the past 3 years about improving
> their unit resulted in me ending the conversation with a feeling that
> these guys will not be in business much longer.
>
> So when I heard about this unit from Trio I contacted them immediately
> and asked how I could get a hold of one. Jerry Hansen answered and we
> hit it off right from the start. They were nearing readiness for a beta
> test of their new 2 gyro unit and were looking for flyers. I had to pay
> for the unit, but that was fine with me. I entered the beta program and
> received the unit in the mail. Out of the box impressions were this:
> 1. It is small. It weighs less than 8oz(yes 8!)
> 2. The direct plug into my existing Navaid servo really was the right
> plug!
> 3. It's small. Less than 3" deep.
>
> After a recent complete panel overhaul (ripped out vacuum, installed 2nd
> EI and ripped that ole last mag out, installed Dynon, Garmin 430, and
> some other nifty items) I was ready for this new solid state gyro
> technology. No gyros to replace, no tumbling the unit, no electric whine
> to listen to. Just quiet reliable computer chips to crank away at the
> data to fly me along. As a young guy, it just seems to make sense to me.
> Electronic failures are almost unheard of with this type of equipment. I
> have rebuilt my horizon 3 times, DG twice, and Navaid once in 1000
> hours. I mean come on! This electronic solid state gyro stuff is the
> future, and the future is now. Here are some of the cool features this
> unit has:
>
> 1. A display has has data on it. At first I did not see this as any real
> benefit until I flew it. My 430 moving map, and I am sure yours too,
> displays important data fields that you use and need constantly. Ground
> speed, track, distance to waypoint etc are all important. What is also
> important is the moving map real estate space. Those fields take up
> valuable real estate on the moving map. This trio displays those fields,
> and cycles through others freeing up the moving map to use up all the
> screen. This is extremely valuable. In fact, in my report to trio, I
> recommended then add more display lines for more data to display.
> 2. Intercept mode. You can read the web site for what it does. Ill just
> say it works just as advertised and is extremely accurate. Even if the
> direction you need to go is behind you, it makes a real nice teardrop
> course reversal and nails the course line. Obviously this thing is smart
> and doing some pretty good math to handle that maneuver. Navaid would
> not even drop me in the same county if tried that.
> 3. Adjustable course track. Dial in .97 deg. heading, and that's what
> you will fly. In either the TRK or CRS mode, if the remote servo
> disconnect switch is activated, you can fly to any new course desired
> and, upon releasing the switch, the autopilot will enter the CRS mode
> and track the new course over the ground. SO the next time you are told
> turn 10 degrees left, you can either dial in 10 degrees left, or release
> the servo, turn manually 10 left, and reengage the servo.
> 4. Excellent turbulence performance. It reacts so quickly, a noticeable
> improvement over the Navaid.
> 5. Plugs in quickly to an existing Navaid servo. I am not kidding you
> when I tell you that installation took less than 3 minutes. 4 screws and
> the navaid dropped right out of the panel, and 4 screws and the Trio was
> in and running. I already had a remote servo disconnect I used for the
> Navaid. I moved 2 moles pins to take advantage of this feature in Trios
> box and that was it. In minutes I was playing with running.
> 6. It accepts an "Aviation" data stream, as well as the NMEA format. But
> the aviation data stream has much more info contained in it. Like
> waypoint name etc. All can now be displayed on-screen, freeing up the
> moving map space. This is great.
> 7. Communication and service has been very very good. They have already
> implemented mine, and others recommendations. Some features now
> available that I have not tried are: (taken from their website)
>
>
> Selectable Track Offset Position (TOP)
> While flight testing the autopilot and flying flight plans using
> published airways, we often encountered other airplanes using the same
> airway. While this was usually during climb or descent (for either us
> or the opposing aircraft) it was a potential safety issue. As more
> aircraft are using precision GPS receivers to navigate, and many are
> coupled to autopilots, such close encounters are likely to increase.
> For this reason, the EZ Pilot incorporates a Track Offset Position (TOP)
> feature that allows the pilot to select a track offset of up to 1 mile.
> This places the aircraft away from the course centerline where much of
> the traffic might be found. It is interesting to note, that if all
> aircraft positioned themselves to the right of the published course
> centerline (for instance), opposing traffic would always be on the
> opposite side of the centerline. Top
> <http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Top>
> Speed Controlled Bank Angle
> A "standard rate turn" of 3 degrees per second may result in a
> comfortable bank angle at 130 knots, but as speed increases the bank
> angle must be increased to achieve the standard rate of turn. In faster
> aircraft this steeper bank may be uncomfortable to some pilots and,
> indeed, may exceed the capability of an altitude hold system to maintain
> altitude properly in the turn. To remedy this, the EZ Pilot has a means
> whereby the users can adjust the maximum rate of turn to their personal
> satisfaction. When shipped, the EZ Pilot is defaulted to an
> "automatic" mode where the actual turn rate is automatically adjusted
> based on groundspeed (as measured by your GPS). For aircraft cruising
> at groundspeeds of 140 knots or greater the automatic mode will decrease
> the allowable turn rate to keep the aircraft bank angle at a comfortable
> maximum of approximately 15 degrees. Slower speeds will allow a
> standard rate turn of 3 degrees per second. Top
> <http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Top>
> Adjustable Bank Angle Limit
> If your cruise groundspeed is typically less than 150 knots, or if you
> do not mind the higher bank angles at the higher groundspeeds, you may
> want to select the MANUAL mode. In the MANUAL mode you can set the
> maximum turn rate to a fixed limit. It is adjustable from 1 degree/sec
> to as high as 3 degree/sec, in increments of 1/10th degree/sec.
> Emergency Course Reversal
> In an effort to increase safety and save lives, this mode may be
> implemented as an emergency aid to the VFR pilot who inadvertently
> enters IMC conditions and needs to execute an immediate course reversal.
> It is important to realize that the autopilot must be turned on and
> receiving a good GPS data signal for proper operation. You may be
> tracking a flight plan but a sudden IMC encounter may not leave you with
> an opportunity to reprogram your GPS to invert the flight plan. This
> procedure does not require you to adjust your GPS receiver. If you are
> manually flying your aircraft, this procedure will also work because the
> servo does not have to be engaged to initiate this emergency procedure.
> The procedure is simple and straightforward. Press and hold the MODE
> button for three seconds. That's all you need to do! After three
> seconds the following will occur:
> 1 The servo will be energized (if off) and the wing leveler
> function will engage.
> 2 The upper right display line will read "TRN 180"
> 3 The lower right display line will be forced to the turn
> coordinator display
> 4. A 175 degree right course reversal will be executed
>
>
> (Back to Mike Stewart's comments) All in all this is a tremendous value.
> I'll be sending my unit in soon for the recent changes. There is one
> notable item that is absolutely terrible, and that is the screen goes
> completely blank in direct sunlight. I mean you can not read one item. A
> quick hand over the unit and all is fine, but they will no doubt need to
> address this soon. From Jerry here is what is in the works:
>
> In the works:
>
> Turbulence penetration enhancement incorporating a full roll coupled
> gyro - Expected late 1st quarter 2004
>
> LCD display option - Expected 1st quarter 2004
>
> Altitude hold system +/- 20 feet vertical tracking - Expected 3rd
> quarter 2004
>
>
> (back to Mike Stewart's comments) Sam Buchanan and I are both real happy
> with this thing and its performance. Sam has already spoken to his
> interest in this unit in message number #116018. Electric spinning
> gyro's are history and this company has a roll axis autopilot at a price
> point that will put all others to shame. (Navaid are you listening? I
> tried to tell you over the past 3 years you needed to look at this
> stuff, and here it is!) I can't wait to see the new display and
> integrated vertical guidance. One thing I don't have and wish I did was
> altitude pre-select at a reasonable price. Altrak watch out, these guys
> are knocking on your door. If I were your mother, and you are flying
> your rv in anything other than severe clear local flights, I would make
> you put one of these things in your plane. Not only will it take some
> workload off, but it might save your A#@! one day.
>
> Mike Stewart
> 6A 1100 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Approach Speeds |
> Tho, 38 kts make me wonder if you have a measurement problem with your
> airspeed thingy.
>
> Don't rely on me, I'm pretty stupid.
>
> Boyd.
Even though I only have 1 hour on my plane, 4 stalls showed between 36-38
knots no flap stall on both the Dynon EFIS and the AITI Mach II Air Data
Computer. With flaps the Dynon showed 28 knots and the AITI showed 34 knots
on two different stalls. Needless to say, much testing is still needed.
Mike Seager flew it and recommended a 65 knot indicated over the fence for
landing.
A question for Jim Cone....
Do you have a AOA Pro that give the digital readout? If so, what AOA do you
stall at?
Ross Mickey
N9PT
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | WAHOOO! N276DM Takes Flight |
Hello!
Just want to let everyone know that there is one more
RV-6A in the world! First flight was Saturday morning
November 8th. The weather was calm, cool and beautiful!
A great day for a first flight. Home airport (and where
the pictures were taken) is Arlington, Washington.
John Sturgis flew chase in his RV-8 with my daughter
Michelle in the back seat taking some pictures. The pictures
can be viewed at www.dynonavionics.com/doug. The first flight
was for 0.6 hours and included a climb to 3000 AGL over the
airport followed by 360's left and right. Than I slowed it
down to 80 mph, added full flaps, and did another set of
360's. I then climbed to 3500 AGL and did one power off
stall to verify the ASI stall speed. I then flew back and
forth over the runway for awhile to let John form up for
some pictures. Finally descended down to pattern altitude
and came in for the landing. What a great feeling!
As a fairly low-time pilot, <100 hours, I knew I would need
some transition training. I ended up driving down to Mike
Seager's place 3 different times and had four separate flights.
I totaled a little over 6 hours in the factory RV-6A with
Mike and felt very comfortable with my plane as a result.
N276DM has been a long project. The first sheet metal work
I did on the plane was in late November of 1991, so it took
me almost 12 years. No work was done on the project at all
for several years as there were external circumstances that
precluded working on it. Plans number was 21140 so it
predates the switch to the later numbering scheme. No
QuickBuild here! I called it my UltraSlowBuild kit.
For you RV listers: If you did a search on my last name,
you would find the following post posted by Matt Dralle on
November 15, 1990:
"Here's the current list of subscribers on RV-LIST. If you
would like individual address, write.
There's 19 now - wow! Matt
(RV-6A Chris Krieg)
(RV-6 Jim Harriger)
(RV-6 Rodney Sinclair)
(RV-4 Steve Harris)
(RV-4 Ed Wischmeyer)
(RV-4 Matt Dralle)
(RV-6A Martin R. Calsyn)
(RV-6 Quent Johnson)
(RV-4 Paul Stafford)
(RV-6 Chris Moody)
(RV-6 Deene Ogden)
(RV-6 Laurens V.Ackerman)
(RV-6A Doug Medema)
(RV-6 Don Wentz 503-696-7185)
(RV-6 Rick Gracely 301-496-5238)
(RV-? John Perrin)
(RV-6 Keith A. Kelleman)
(Venture Bret Marquis)
(RV-6 Michael Goldsmith)"
Back then, 5 posts a day was a busy day! The RV list has
certainly been a help through the years. It would be
interesting to know how many of these 19 people finished
an RV. I know of one more who needs to finish -- come
on Matt, pry your fingers off your keyboard(s) long enough
to get your '4 in the air!
I didn't bother looking for any performance numbers, just
wanted a safe flight and a safe landing.
Mission accomplished!
The plane:
RV-6A N276DM UltraSlowBuild kit
O-320-E2D rebuilt and converted to 160 hp.
Sensenich fixed pitch
Left mag; right LightSpeed electronic ignition
Single piece top wing skins
Manual flaps
Electric elevator trim
Van's manual aileron trim
PS Engineering CD player/intercom
ICOM A200 com
GRT EIS 4000 engine monitor
Garmin GTX327 transponder
Dynon Avionics EFIS-D10 ( 8>} )
Whelan strobes
Day/night VFR equipped
Empty weight is 1026 w/o paint
I logged my time through the first 2200 hours or so and
then got tired of it. I believe I have 2500+ hours in it, but
none of that matters anymore. As you can see from the pictures,
I still have a lot of work to do on the plane, but right now,
I just want to go flying!
For all of you listers out there who are thinking about building,
just remember: You can't finish if you don't start. These
are great airplanes, I'm looking forward to a lot of fun ahead!
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM FLYING!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: WAHOOO! N276DM Takes Flight |
dmedema(at)att.net wrote:
>
> Hello!
>
> Just want to let everyone know that there is one more
> RV-6A in the world! First flight was Saturday morning
> November 8th. The weather was calm, cool and beautiful!
> A great day for a first flight. Home airport (and where
> the pictures were taken) is Arlington, Washington.
Waydda go, Doug!
*Now* I know why Gloria said "Doug's not in the office right now" when I
called Dynon last week.......... :-)
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Approach Speeds |
> Are you flying a Cub?
>
> Did you type that right?--"With flaps the Dynon showed 28 knots and the
> AITI showed 34 knots on two different stalls"? I mean, with added
> power I can fly my -6 slow enough to stay with one of those Twin Cam
> funny-looking airplanes--but, 28 kts? That's why I paint the top of my
> wings flat black and the bottoms gloss white and just the reverse for
> the HS/elevators. I'm yanking your chain, Ross.
> >> Boyd.
Like I said, with one hour, the numbers have to be taken very lightly. Mike
was a bit surprised at the 38K no flap but the two instruments agreed on
that. He felt that the AITI reading of 34K full flaps is probably more
correct. He said his experience shows that there is very little difference
between the no flap and full flap stall speeds. I am scheduled for a
pitot/static and transponder check tomorrow.
Ross
It's raining.......sigh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | SafetyCell Cell Phone Adapter |
I would appreciate hearing from anyone using the SafetyCell adapter for talking on a cell phone through your intercom/headset in the airplane. Specifically, would you recommend the standard or the amplified version? Also, they said you can plug the adapter into a tape recorder and record your intercom output in flight. Has anyone tried doing this with a video camcorder to see if this works. When I asked they said they had never heard of anyone actually doing this but thought that it would probably work OK. For anyone interested their web site is www.pilotsupport.com.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 QB (Building)
Vero Beach, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Approach Speeds |
>I was thinking that's Fiesler Storch territory!
>28KT = 32mph
>34KT = 39mph
>38KT = 43mph
More like a Westland Lysander!
Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WAHOOO! N276DM Takes Flight |
Congratulations Doug! What a long haul...
I was up flying around on Saturday too. I'd would have stopped by if I had
any idea that Saturday was going to be the day! You (and I) are on
different ends of the building spectrum from John... It took him like
what, about four months to build his RV-8? :-)
Have fun, hope the weather gives you a break. It's supposed to rain for
the next couple of weeks.
Dave
RV6
Slooow build
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SafetyCell Cell Phone Adapter |
Pat:
I bought an adapter ... don't remember who it is made by that plugs into my
cell phone and then into my Lightspeed headset. The volume is a problem.
It works great when on the ground idling but in the air the phone does not
have enough volume to be heard over the plane very well. Any amplication I
think you would want.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
160 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
"Rv-List(at)Matronics.Com"
| Subject: | heated pitot tube on eBay |
Here is the link to a 24volt heated pitot tube for sale on eBay. If you can live
with out heat and just use the pitot head you can save about $200.
This was listed for $9.00 today when I check with no bids. Good Luck,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item2441185678&category26439
Ed Perry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DICK PITTENGER" <pittenger32(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Pilot Operating Handbook |
Some time ago I received a neat P.O.H. for an RV-6A from someone on this list,
but somehow it got lost in the bowels of this computer.
Does someone have a copy that you can e-mail me? My project is almost finished
and this handbook with all the stats and procedures would sure be helpful.
Thanks
Dick Pittenger
pittenger32(at)msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Round oil door latch (was Re: hartwell latch) |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Dave,
I got one of these for my oil door and think it looks and works great. I can't
remember if it has a P/N on it but the one I have is made by the Camloc company,
not Hartwell like the rectangular latches (and yes, I do know what you're
talking about and am not confusing it with the product we normally call "camlocs"
used to attach cowls and the like). It just looks like a round button, probably
about 1" in diameter, and you push it in to release the latch and open
the oil door. If I recall correctly I saw it in a catalog somewhere for an outrageous
price so I got mine from Air Salvage of Dallas for something like $15.
Would do the same if I had to do it over...
BTW, if you install this in your oil door, you'll have to add a couple stiffeners
to the door...Van's design is flexible and made to be held down at each corner
as shown in the plans. On my oil door I took a couple pieces of lightweight
angle (I think it was .025") and fluted the heck out of them to get them to
match the curvature of the oil door. Then I riveted them to the door with flush
rivets countersunk into the fiberglass. They extend from the door hinge all
the way down to the lower edge of the door on each side of the latch. There's
also a small strip of stainless steel riveted to the cowl lip where the latch
makes contact (the fiberglass edge isn't robust enough to handle the stress
that the latch places on it). Some high-build surfacing primer and quick sanding
job to kill the pinholes and cover the rivet heads, and it looks sweet.
Works great. Way cool.
P.S. -- to give credit where it's due, the first RV I saw this latch used on was
Don Christianson's in Dallas. I took a few pics of it and copied it shamelessly.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing...would be flying by now if not for all the deviations from
the plans...
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: hartwell latch
I'm looking for a Hartwell latch that has the round push lever instead of the rectangular
spring loaded one seen in ACS. There is a part number on this broken
one that I have of H601S-100-C356. Anyone know of a source for this?
Dave Ford
RV6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
For 6 or 6As with electric flaps:
Drawing 42 shows the length of the flap rod as 3 1/2 inches for the
manual flaps. The electic flap instructions don't specify the length.
With the torque tube being relocated, it seems that the length of the
rods might need to change. What length have you used for these?
Jeff Point
Milwaukee WI
RV-6 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: was - Approach Speeds, turned into "heavy wing" |
Hi Chuck,
The process I involves the use of a reasonably long block of wood (to avoid
denting the control surface edge) and a hammer. It was suggested that light
taps with the hammer served to produce noticeable changes. Read that to say;
Go easy on the offending control surface,.... it didn't mean to do it,
honest it didn't! ...(8-}
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
Subject: RV-List: was - Approach Speeds, turned into "heavy wing"
>
> Henry,
>
> While searching the archives about a "heavy wing", I found an email
from
> you mentioning not only squeezing the lightside aileron, but also the
> "possibility of inflating the heavy wing's aileron". Do you remember
that?
> Anywho... I changed my RV-4 into a clipped wing, with full span ailerons
> (no flaps) and find I once again have a heavy right wing. Having
> previously squeezed ailerons (a little each side) I would prefer to try
> "inflation" verses deflating them more. The question is "How?". Any
> suggestions, from any knowledgeable person(s) would be greatly
appreciated.
> Thanks,
>
> Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
I'm not seeing a turn coordinator or a slip/skid ball on the EZ Pilot --
many of us have Navaids installed for this function as well. Do they have
any plan to add those functions? Slip/skid ball is not a biggie, one of
those separate ones could be added, but the TC is a bit tougher to replace.
It's too bad when a company such as Navaid, who used to own a market niche,
doesn't adapt with the market and technology. My Navaid is one of the few
things in my airplane that hasn't needed some attention, but the features of
some of these newer units are very appealing. I know of another vendor who
will enter this market during 2004 with a 2-axis autopilot that DOES have a
turn coordinator as well as a slip/skid ball. Guess my Navaid is getting
replaced one way or the other. :-)
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Subject: RV-List: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long)
>
> Recently I was able to test a new version of Trio's single roll axis
> autopilot. www.trioavionics.com . I have been running the Navaid for
> 1000hrs and was pretty happy with it. It WAS the only game in town so I
> really did not have any comparisons. Here are some things that have
> always annoyed me about the Navaid unit.
> 1. I had have the gyro rebuilt
> 2. When you engaged the unit you had better hold on. There is no telling
> what it might do. IT could roll into a 60 degree bank and scare the
> bejesus out of you and your passenger before it gets stable and presses
> on.
> 3. It was stable in turbulence, but not real stable.
> 4. Tracking was always off one way or another. Not by a lot, but always
> off. More annoying than anything.
> 5. When I keyed up the mic, again you had better hold on. It could roll
> you upside down.
> 6. When intercepting a course, it would overshoot, undershoot,
> overshoot, undershoot until it got on course. IT would never nail it. If
> you had an approach loaded, it would shoot you right through the FAF and
> there was no hope of making the runway unless you got on the final
> approach course miles before the FAF.
> 7. Every conversation with Navaid for the past 3 years about improving
> their unit resulted in me ending the conversation with a feeling that
> these guys will not be in business much longer.
>
> So when I heard about this unit from Trio I contacted them immediately
> and asked how I could get a hold of one. Jerry Hansen answered and we
> hit it off right from the start. They were nearing readiness for a beta
> test of their new 2 gyro unit and were looking for flyers. I had to pay
> for the unit, but that was fine with me. I entered the beta program and
> received the unit in the mail. Out of the box impressions were this:
> 1. It is small. It weighs less than 8oz(yes 8!)
> 2. The direct plug into my existing Navaid servo really was the right
> plug!
> 3. It's small. Less than 3" deep.
>
> After a recent complete panel overhaul (ripped out vacuum, installed 2nd
> EI and ripped that ole last mag out, installed Dynon, Garmin 430, and
> some other nifty items) I was ready for this new solid state gyro
> technology. No gyros to replace, no tumbling the unit, no electric whine
> to listen to. Just quiet reliable computer chips to crank away at the
> data to fly me along. As a young guy, it just seems to make sense to me.
> Electronic failures are almost unheard of with this type of equipment. I
> have rebuilt my horizon 3 times, DG twice, and Navaid once in 1000
> hours. I mean come on! This electronic solid state gyro stuff is the
> future, and the future is now. Here are some of the cool features this
> unit has:
>
> 1. A display has has data on it. At first I did not see this as any real
> benefit until I flew it. My 430 moving map, and I am sure yours too,
> displays important data fields that you use and need constantly. Ground
> speed, track, distance to waypoint etc are all important. What is also
> important is the moving map real estate space. Those fields take up
> valuable real estate on the moving map. This trio displays those fields,
> and cycles through others freeing up the moving map to use up all the
> screen. This is extremely valuable. In fact, in my report to trio, I
> recommended then add more display lines for more data to display.
> 2. Intercept mode. You can read the web site for what it does. Ill just
> say it works just as advertised and is extremely accurate. Even if the
> direction you need to go is behind you, it makes a real nice teardrop
> course reversal and nails the course line. Obviously this thing is smart
> and doing some pretty good math to handle that maneuver. Navaid would
> not even drop me in the same county if tried that.
> 3. Adjustable course track. Dial in .97 deg. heading, and that's what
> you will fly. In either the TRK or CRS mode, if the remote servo
> disconnect switch is activated, you can fly to any new course desired
> and, upon releasing the switch, the autopilot will enter the CRS mode
> and track the new course over the ground. SO the next time you are told
> turn 10 degrees left, you can either dial in 10 degrees left, or release
> the servo, turn manually 10 left, and reengage the servo.
> 4. Excellent turbulence performance. It reacts so quickly, a noticeable
> improvement over the Navaid.
> 5. Plugs in quickly to an existing Navaid servo. I am not kidding you
> when I tell you that installation took less than 3 minutes. 4 screws and
> the navaid dropped right out of the panel, and 4 screws and the Trio was
> in and running. I already had a remote servo disconnect I used for the
> Navaid. I moved 2 moles pins to take advantage of this feature in Trios
> box and that was it. In minutes I was playing with running.
> 6. It accepts an "Aviation" data stream, as well as the NMEA format. But
> the aviation data stream has much more info contained in it. Like
> waypoint name etc. All can now be displayed on-screen, freeing up the
> moving map space. This is great.
> 7. Communication and service has been very very good. They have already
> implemented mine, and others recommendations. Some features now
> available that I have not tried are: (taken from their website)
>
>
> Selectable Track Offset Position (TOP)
> While flight testing the autopilot and flying flight plans using
> published airways, we often encountered other airplanes using the same
> airway. While this was usually during climb or descent (for either us
> or the opposing aircraft) it was a potential safety issue. As more
> aircraft are using precision GPS receivers to navigate, and many are
> coupled to autopilots, such close encounters are likely to increase.
> For this reason, the EZ Pilot incorporates a Track Offset Position (TOP)
> feature that allows the pilot to select a track offset of up to 1 mile.
> This places the aircraft away from the course centerline where much of
> the traffic might be found. It is interesting to note, that if all
> aircraft positioned themselves to the right of the published course
> centerline (for instance), opposing traffic would always be on the
> opposite side of the centerline. Top
> <http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Top>
> Speed Controlled Bank Angle
> A "standard rate turn" of 3 degrees per second may result in a
> comfortable bank angle at 130 knots, but as speed increases the bank
> angle must be increased to achieve the standard rate of turn. In faster
> aircraft this steeper bank may be uncomfortable to some pilots and,
> indeed, may exceed the capability of an altitude hold system to maintain
> altitude properly in the turn. To remedy this, the EZ Pilot has a means
> whereby the users can adjust the maximum rate of turn to their personal
> satisfaction. When shipped, the EZ Pilot is defaulted to an
> "automatic" mode where the actual turn rate is automatically adjusted
> based on groundspeed (as measured by your GPS). For aircraft cruising
> at groundspeeds of 140 knots or greater the automatic mode will decrease
> the allowable turn rate to keep the aircraft bank angle at a comfortable
> maximum of approximately 15 degrees. Slower speeds will allow a
> standard rate turn of 3 degrees per second. Top
> <http://www.trioavionics.com/Features.htm#Top>
> Adjustable Bank Angle Limit
> If your cruise groundspeed is typically less than 150 knots, or if you
> do not mind the higher bank angles at the higher groundspeeds, you may
> want to select the MANUAL mode. In the MANUAL mode you can set the
> maximum turn rate to a fixed limit. It is adjustable from 1 degree/sec
> to as high as 3 degree/sec, in increments of 1/10th degree/sec.
> Emergency Course Reversal
> In an effort to increase safety and save lives, this mode may be
> implemented as an emergency aid to the VFR pilot who inadvertently
> enters IMC conditions and needs to execute an immediate course reversal.
> It is important to realize that the autopilot must be turned on and
> receiving a good GPS data signal for proper operation. You may be
> tracking a flight plan but a sudden IMC encounter may not leave you with
> an opportunity to reprogram your GPS to invert the flight plan. This
> procedure does not require you to adjust your GPS receiver. If you are
> manually flying your aircraft, this procedure will also work because the
> servo does not have to be engaged to initiate this emergency procedure.
> The procedure is simple and straightforward. Press and hold the MODE
> button for three seconds. That's all you need to do! After three
> seconds the following will occur:
> 1 The servo will be energized (if off) and the wing leveler
> function will engage.
> 2 The upper right display line will read "TRN 180"
> 3 The lower right display line will be forced to the turn
> coordinator display
> 4. A 175 degree right course reversal will be executed
>
>
> (Back to Mike Stewart's comments) All in all this is a tremendous value.
> I'll be sending my unit in soon for the recent changes. There is one
> notable item that is absolutely terrible, and that is the screen goes
> completely blank in direct sunlight. I mean you can not read one item. A
> quick hand over the unit and all is fine, but they will no doubt need to
> address this soon. From Jerry here is what is in the works:
>
> In the works:
>
> Turbulence penetration enhancement incorporating a full roll coupled
> gyro - Expected late 1st quarter 2004
>
> LCD display option - Expected 1st quarter 2004
>
> Altitude hold system +/- 20 feet vertical tracking - Expected 3rd
> quarter 2004
>
>
> (back to Mike Stewart's comments) Sam Buchanan and I are both real happy
> with this thing and its performance. Sam has already spoken to his
> interest in this unit in message number #116018. Electric spinning
> gyro's are history and this company has a roll axis autopilot at a price
> point that will put all others to shame. (Navaid are you listening? I
> tried to tell you over the past 3 years you needed to look at this
> stuff, and here it is!) I can't wait to see the new display and
> integrated vertical guidance. One thing I don't have and wish I did was
> altitude pre-select at a reasonable price. Altrak watch out, these guys
> are knocking on your door. If I were your mother, and you are flying
> your rv in anything other than severe clear local flights, I would make
> you put one of these things in your plane. Not only will it take some
> workload off, but it might save your A#@! one day.
November 04, 2003 - November 10, 2003
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ol