RV-Archive.digest.vol-om
November 10, 2003 - November 17, 2003
>
> Mike Stewart
> 6A 1100 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook |
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
Dick-- I have a very inclusive one on my old computer--let me see if I
can start it up and get it talk to me.
Be careful of your bowels, you're never quite sure what they can do.
On Monday, November 10, 2003, at 05:50 PM, DICK PITTENGER wrote:
>
> Some time ago I received a neat P.O.H. for an RV-6A from someone on
> this list, but somehow it got lost in the bowels of this computer.
>
> Does someone have a copy that you can e-mail me? My project is almost
> finished and this handbook with all the stats and procedures would
> sure be helpful.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dick Pittenger
> pittenger32(at)msn.com
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N9PT First Flight |
Ross,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: N9PT First Flight
>Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2003 19:56:40 -0800 (GMT-08:00)
>
>
>N9PT flew for the first time today. 9 years to the day of when I picked my
>emp kit up from Vans.
>
>One hour of joy and uneventful flying. No heavy wing, aileron in trim, and
>no trim tab needed on the rudder. All engine parameters good. Indicated
>airspeed at 45 degrees F, 2,000 feet, 24" manifold pressure and 2400 rpm's
>was 168 knots. No flap stall speed was 38 knots.
>
>Only squawk,so far, the GRT engine monitor goes wierd when I transmit on
>Comm 2 which is my wingtip antenna.
>
>Keep building.
>
>Thanks again,
>
>Ross
>N9PT...Flying!!!!!
>
>
Concerned that messages may bounce because your Hotmail account is over
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook |
>
>Some time ago I received a neat P.O.H. for an RV-6A from someone on
>this list, but somehow it got lost in the bowels of this computer.
>
>Does someone have a copy that you can e-mail me? My project is
>almost finished and this handbook with all the stats and procedures
>would sure be helpful.
>
>Thanks
>
>Dick Pittenger
Dick,
The RV Links section of my web site has several POHs listed. Try:
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/phplinks/index.php?&PID=54
Anyone who has a POH posted that is not listed on my site, please let
me know and I'll add it to the list.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WAHOOO! N276DM Takes Flight |
Doug,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
p.s. You'll love your RV more each time you fly her !
>From: dmedema(at)att.net
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: WAHOOO! N276DM Takes Flight
>Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 19:05:40 +0000
>
>
>Hello!
>
>Just want to let everyone know that there is one more
>RV-6A in the world! First flight was Saturday morning
>November 8th. The weather was calm, cool and beautiful!
>A great day for a first flight. Home airport (and where
>the pictures were taken) is Arlington, Washington.
>
Compare high-speed Internet plans, starting at $26.95.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: was - Approach Speeds, turned into "heavy wing" |
Answer to question posed by Chuck off line to me and the "list"---HH
> Hi Chuck,
> Couldn't remember writing anything about "inflating" an
> aileron so I searched my "Sent Items" file and found the post I sent on
the
> subject, copied below:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Elsa & Henry" <elsa-henry@darlor-watch.com>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2003 8:09 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron squeeze
>
>
> > I'll quote from an article that Van wrote in the August '92 Rvator:
>
> > "----The essential info is that lateral balance can be achieved by
> > decreasing the trailing edge radius of the aileron on the light wing.
This
> > means that if the airplane has a left rolling tendency (heavy left
wing),
> > decreasing the trailing edge radius on the right wing will make the
right
> > wing heavier and bring it into balance.The reverse is true for a right
> > rolling tendency. On the flip side, increasing the radius of the
trailing
> > edge of the aileron on the heavy wing will bring trim into balance.
> >
> > It is obvious that squeezing the trailing edge will decrease the radius,
> but
> > how does one conveniently increase (un-squeeze) the trailing edge?
There
> is
> > a simple but effective procedure; one which most sensitive, intelligent
> > builders find distasteful. Hit it with a hammer!!! Actually, the
procedure
> > calls for holding a wooden block along the trailing edge and tapping it
> with
> > a hammer or similar heavy object. It usually doesn't require much
force,
> so
> > no damage is done to the aileron"
> >
> > Unquote.------- There is a wealth of info in those old RVators and my
wife
> > says I have a terrific memory for what I have read. I go back to early
> 1992
> > form copies made from a very old builder.
> >
> > Suggest that builder's groups print-out the above and disseminate it
to
> > their members for posterity!
> >
> > Cheers!!-------Henry Hore
>
>
> I hope this helps---the bible from Van!
>
> Cheers!! (again)--Henry Hore
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: SafetyCell Cell Phone Adapter |
Pat,
I bought one of these and carry it in my plane. In general it works pretty
well, and I've really saved myself some time by being able to make a call to
a destination or whatever. I find myself not using it frequently because
it's a bit of a hassle to get it out, untangle the cords, unplug my headset,
plug the headset into it, then plug the phone into it. I'm probably just
being lazy.
I have the un-amplified version and in retrospect should have spent the
extra $. Still, if I just turn my left earcup volume up it works just fine.
Overall it's a good widget to have in the cockpit, but I'd rather just have
a cable that plugs into the cell phone and goes directly into the plane or
panel.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV-List: SafetyCell Cell Phone Adapter
>
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone using the SafetyCell adapter for
talking on a cell phone through your intercom/headset in the airplane.
Specifically, would you recommend the standard or the amplified version?
Also, they said you can plug the adapter into a tape recorder and record
your intercom output in flight. Has anyone tried doing this with a video
camcorder to see if this works. When I asked they said they had never heard
of anyone actually doing this but thought that it would probably work OK.
For anyone interested their web site is www.pilotsupport.com.
>
>
> Pat Hatch
> RV-4
> RV-6
> RV-7 QB (Building)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Simmons" <ken(at)truckstop.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
It does have a turn coordinator. It's listed in the operations manual.
That's the one drawback from the Trutrak line in my opinion.
Ken
---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 16:02:05 -0800
>
>I'm not seeing a turn coordinator or a slip/skid ball on the EZ Pilot --
>many of us have Navaids installed for this function as well. Do they have
>any plan to add those functions? Slip/skid ball is not a biggie, one of
>those separate ones could be added, but the TC is a bit tougher to replace.
>
>It's too bad when a company such as Navaid, who used to own a market niche,
>doesn't adapt with the market and technology. My Navaid is one of the few
>things in my airplane that hasn't needed some attention, but the features of
>some of these newer units are very appealing. I know of another vendor who
>will enter this market during 2004 with a 2-axis autopilot that DOES have a
>turn coordinator as well as a slip/skid ball. Guess my Navaid is getting
>replaced one way or the other. :-)
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, 360 hrs
>www.rv-8.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
Randy Lervold wrote:
>
> I'm not seeing a turn coordinator or a slip/skid ball on the EZ Pilot --
> many of us have Navaids installed for this function as well. Do they have
> any plan to add those functions? Slip/skid ball is not a biggie, one of
> those separate ones could be added, but the TC is a bit tougher to replace.
Randy, the EZ-Pilot includes a turn coordinator in the options you can
call up on the display. It is a "bar" display similar to that on the
Navaid, and only requires a couple of presses of the display button to
call up either intermittently or for the duration of the flight.
Since a ball is included in the Dynon display, I have not added another
one to my panel. However, if I didn't have the Dynon, I would want a
slip/skid ball on the panel. One of the small, simple units would be
enough to make sure a really ugly turn from base to final didn't get out
of hand.
> It's too bad when a company such as Navaid, who used to own a market niche,
> doesn't adapt with the market and technology. My Navaid is one of the few
> things in my airplane that hasn't needed some attention, but the features of
> some of these newer units are very appealing. I know of another vendor who
> will enter this market during 2004 with a 2-axis autopilot that DOES have a
> turn coordinator as well as a slip/skid ball. Guess my Navaid is getting
> replaced one way or the other. :-)
True. The Navaid was impressive technology for experimental aircraft for
many years, but the solid-state gyro based units are undeniably a lot
better. A post earlier today defended the Navaid and I certainly
understand the spirit of that post since the Navaid has faithfully
guided my plane all over a considerable portion of the country.
But optimizing the Navaid is sorta like tuning a tube-type radio; the
gain pots have to be set correctly, you have to get the trim just right,
the plane has to be aligned nearly on course, you have to use the right
sequence of pushing the Go-To button on the GPS, switching from leveler
to tracking, wait the right number of seconds for "some capacitors to
charge", and then, on a good day, the Navaid will do a fine job of
tracking (and occasionally, I *still* got a hard pull on the stick as
the thing tried to turn off course). In contrast, with the EZ-Pilot, all
you do is call up your waypoint on the GPS, push one button and BINGO!
the plane turns the correct way that is necessary to find the waypoint
and is locked on course....right now! The unit automatically retrims as
necessary, and there is no need to fine tune the thing as you fly the trip.
Technology comes and goes; analog has gone and digital is here. Enjoy!
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com (not an employee of Trio Avionics, just a
satisfied customer)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: "heavy wing" |
Guys,
Speaking from personal experience with several RVs now let me say that no
one should start squeezing or banging on their aileron trailing edges UNTIL
they have verified that the ailerons are mounted at EXACTLY at the same
height. On all four of the aircraft I've been involved with troubleshooting
it was an aileron bracket that was slightly off in terms of positioning it
the same at both ends, and more importantly THE SAME ON BOTH SIDES. Trust
me, it's amazing how little height difference it takes to create a wing
heavy. If you mess with what may be a perfectly good trailing edge before
you get your ailerons mounted right you will be masking the real problem and
the result will be you'll probably eliminate the heavy wing at one speed but
not all speeds.
Van's has published a well written document on this that I would advise you
to read carefully...
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Heavy.pdf
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
EAA Technical Counselor
www.rv-8.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: was - Approach Speeds, turned into "heavy wing"
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> The process I involves the use of a reasonably long block of wood (to
avoid
> denting the control surface edge) and a hammer. It was suggested that
light
> taps with the hammer served to produce noticeable changes. Read that to
say;
> Go easy on the offending control surface,.... it didn't mean to do it,
> honest it didn't! ...(8-}
>
>
> Jim in Kelowna
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: was - Approach Speeds, turned into "heavy wing"
>
>
> >
> > Henry,
> >
> > While searching the archives about a "heavy wing", I found an email
> from
> > you mentioning not only squeezing the lightside aileron, but also the
> > "possibility of inflating the heavy wing's aileron". Do you remember
> that?
> > Anywho... I changed my RV-4 into a clipped wing, with full span
ailerons
> > (no flaps) and find I once again have a heavy right wing. Having
> > previously squeezed ailerons (a little each side) I would prefer to try
> > "inflation" verses deflating them more. The question is "How?". Any
> > suggestions, from any knowledgeable person(s) would be greatly
> appreciated.
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> >>snipped>>
>
>True. The Navaid was impressive technology for experimental aircraft for
>many years, but the solid-state gyro based units are undeniably a lot
>better. A post earlier today defended the Navaid and I certainly
>understand the spirit of that post since the Navaid has faithfully
>guided my plane all over a considerable portion of the country.
>
>But optimizing the Navaid is sorta like tuning a tube-type radio; the
>gain pots have to be set correctly, you have to get the trim just right,
>the plane has to be aligned nearly on course, you have to use the right
>sequence of pushing the Go-To button on the GPS, switching from leveler
>to tracking, wait the right number of seconds for "some capacitors to
>charge", and then, on a good day, the Navaid will do a fine job of
>tracking (and occasionally, I *still* got a hard pull on the stick as
>the thing tried to turn off course). In contrast, with the EZ-Pilot, all
>you do is call up your waypoint on the GPS, push one button and BINGO!
>the plane turns the correct way that is necessary to find the waypoint
>and is locked on course....right now! The unit automatically retrims as
>necessary, and there is no need to fine tune the thing as you fly the trip.
>
>Technology comes and goes; analog has gone and digital is here. Enjoy!
>
>Sam Buchanan
>http://thervjournal.com (not an employee of Trio Avionics, just a
>satisfied customer)
>
I have a question based on what I read on their web site. Have either of
you disabled your GPS feed to the a/p to check its reaction? The web
site seems to indicate that there is no backup for loss of heading info
from the GPS.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
Charlie & Tupper England wrote:
>
> Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
>>>>snipped>>
>>
>>True. The Navaid was impressive technology for experimental aircraft for
>>many years, but the solid-state gyro based units are undeniably a lot
>>better. A post earlier today defended the Navaid and I certainly
>>understand the spirit of that post since the Navaid has faithfully
>>guided my plane all over a considerable portion of the country.
>>
>>But optimizing the Navaid is sorta like tuning a tube-type radio; the
>>gain pots have to be set correctly, you have to get the trim just right,
>>the plane has to be aligned nearly on course, you have to use the right
>>sequence of pushing the Go-To button on the GPS, switching from leveler
>>to tracking, wait the right number of seconds for "some capacitors to
>>charge", and then, on a good day, the Navaid will do a fine job of
>>tracking (and occasionally, I *still* got a hard pull on the stick as
>>the thing tried to turn off course). In contrast, with the EZ-Pilot, all
>>you do is call up your waypoint on the GPS, push one button and BINGO!
>>the plane turns the correct way that is necessary to find the waypoint
>>and is locked on course....right now! The unit automatically retrims as
>>necessary, and there is no need to fine tune the thing as you fly the trip.
>>
>>Technology comes and goes; analog has gone and digital is here. Enjoy!
>>
>>Sam Buchanan
>>http://thervjournal.com (not an employee of Trio Avionics, just a
>>satisfied customer)
>>
>
> I have a question based on what I read on their web site. Have either of
> you disabled your GPS feed to the a/p to check its reaction? The web
> site seems to indicate that there is no backup for loss of heading info
> from the GPS.
Charlie, if GPS feed is lost, the EZ-Pilot (and I understand the same
can be said for the DigiTrak) will revert to wing-leveler mode wherein
the solid-state gyro will continue to run to keep the shiny side up. The
heading will start drifting since the autopilot is no longer auto or a
pilot but the gyro will still attempt to keep the wings level.
I have not tried flying the EZ-Pilot with the GPS disabled through
radical maneuvers or for long periods of time to see how readily it can
get confused......but I will on the next flight and report back if
difficulties are found! I must admit that GPS has been so reliable in my
plane that I probably haven't considered the possibility of GPS failure
as much as I should, and in VFR ops, it is a none issue. In the real
world it is probably quite unlikely during a "routine" (?!) flight that
loss of GPS data would be followed by a severe upset in IMC, but if that
happened, I doubt a wing leveler is going to save our bacon.
But the remote possibility of total loss of GPS data for an extended
period of time is why I don't favor EFIS's that include GPS in the AHRS
solution (Blue Mountain?). It would be preferable to only lose full
functionality of the wing leveler to having flight instruments get
flakey because they can't hear the satellites.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Source for getting spinner polished.... |
Howdy...
Just thought I would pass on some lessons learned on polishing my alum.
sensenich spinner. First I must say the spinner from sensenich is a work of
art....nothing left to do except paint or polish it...very nice....
Anyway...I always like the polished look...so I did the
usual...sand...sand...buy more sand paper...sand...sand...polish...buy polish compound....buy
polishing wheels....buy a new bench grinder to get more
RPM....polish...cuss....well you get the idea...with over $120 invested in this
I didn't get too
far.....bottom line is you have to know what you are doing...and have the right
equipment.....
My lesson learned: send your spinner to John Frady in Oklahoma City. His
number is 405-350-6908. I picked up my spinner the other day and it looked
like it had been chromed....I almost cried....well almost. He will take a
rough cut spinner out of the box from sensenich and polish it, the backing plate
flanges, washers, and screws for $80. Dont do what I did and try to do it
yourself unless you have the right equipment. His "bench grinder" looks like it
weighs 2000 lbs, is bolted to the floor, and stand about 4 ft tall. He does
Lear Jet type cowl inlets, and spinners for King Airs, Cycle Parts, etc...full
time...he knows what he is doing. Just thought I would pass it along....wish
I had found him earlier....
Keep building...
Kurt in OKC
RV6A...getting close...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
"Subject: Re: RV-List: Salute to our Mil Aviators (OT)
Brian - Your post is very much appreciated by this F-86, F-84F, F-4B/C/D/E
driver. Folks like you are helping to get the taste of the 60's out of my
mouth. - Mike"
Mike. If you or any of our ex military friends are ever in town I'd be honored
to supply the bacon and eggs to help get that 'taste' removed. (Town is San Diego
/ La Mesa / El Cajon. SEE or MYF)
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
RV9A N919RV (res) Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: PC680 Charger..? |
In a message dated 11/10/2003 7:48:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,
RV6AOKC(at)aol.com writes:
Anyone have a favorite charger they use for their PC-680???
During the week in the winter cold, I use a BRW Technology (1-800-426-6008)
EZ-12 two stage (600mA starting then 50mA sustaining) trickle charger, sold in
motorcycle shops.
I have three of them and this charger kept my K100 motorcycle battery good
during continuous charging for three years (with no boil off), while I was
recovering from a back injury. I charges at 13.3V and seems to do a pretty fair
job of keeping the battery topped off during short periods of inactivity (my
plane seldom sits for too long in the generally good CA weather).
-GV (RV-6A N1GV 671hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: "heavy wing" |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net>
>
> Can you tell me that you can tell if ailerons are perfectly
> identical--what about the flaps?
>
I used a digital Smart Level.
I started by lining up the trailing edge of the wingtip, aileron and flap on
one side by stretching a string from the wingtip to the step on my 6A. Then
I used the Smart Level to find the angle. On mine, it was 15.5-16.0
degrees. I then set the flap on the other side to this same value. I then
ran a sting between the wingtip and the step so the string ran along the
flap. On this side, I was unable to get the aileron to follow the string
line. I think the wingtip is a bit higher and one of the aileron brackets
is slightly off. The aileron is not twisted as it reads the same angle all
along the top surface. I rigged it so the string intersected the mid point
of the aileron. Using this method, the plane flies with no heavy wing and
the aileron sits in the proper position in flight (as determined by Mike
Seager).
Ross Mickey
N9PT....flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook |
> Does someone have a copy that you can e-mail me? My project is almost
finished and this handbook with all the stats and procedures would sure be
helpful.
>
> Thanks
>
> Dick Pittenger
> pittenger32(at)msn.com
Dick,
I have one for my 6A if you need another, let me know and I will email it to
you. It is 80, 8.5" X 5 3/4" pages.
Ross Mickey
N9PT....Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | OIL FILTER ADAPTER? |
Which is the best oil filter adapter to get for my O-360? Niagara
(http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ scroll down) seems to have the best
deal but I don't see any reference to them in the archives. Is there
something better? I have the stock oil screen right now....
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
My O-360 came with the left mag only. I'm fitting the Rose ignition to
the right side, but I'm short the mag gear. Where is the best place to
procure a gear?
Thx,
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PC680 Charger..? |
In a message dated 11/10/2003 10:48:33 PM Eastern Standard Time,
RV6AOKC(at)aol.com writes:
> Anyone have a favorite charger they use for their PC-680??? Thanks...
>
> Kurt in OKC
>
I bought a trickle charger from Batteries Plus for the PC680 and keep it
plugged in whenever I park the plane. It has an indicator light and I always walk
into the hanger to a fully charged battery.
Really like it.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
160 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Turbo Tom" <turbotom(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery |
This is the source for PC 680 batteries. E-mail to follow for the box. I
*think* this will fit on the firewall, and that's really the easiest place
for servicing it and wiring it.
Just get the regular PC680. Full metal jacket not required.
TT
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Zilik" <zilik(at)direcpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Odyssey Battery
>
> The MJ stands for Metal Jacket and this jacket is what Van's uses for
> the battery box. Get the plain old PC680 for 62.55 and you'll get the
> same battery as you would from Van
>
> Gary
>
> Chuck Weyant wrote:
>
> >
> >I've got the Odyssey Battery box from Van's installed on my firewall.
I've been to
https://www.batteries4everything.com/store/search.asp?categoryOdyssey%2C+Hawker%2C+Cyclon%2C+Genesis+Batteries&manufacturerODYSSEY
> >and they have three batteries for waaaaaaay less than Van's but which
one? PC680, PC680MJ, or PC680MJT? $62.55, $71.10, and $88.66 respectively.
The last one has SAE brass terminals and a metal jacket. Don't I need both
of these? Second one has metal jacket and I don't know what for terminals.
Which on should I order?
> >Chuck Weyant
> >
> >By the way, if you're going to get one of these, you had better do it
pretty quick, the man says they are going to have a sizeable price increase
in a couple of weeks.
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OIL FILTER ADAPTER? |
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> Which is the best oil filter adapter to get for my O-360? Niagara
> (http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ scroll down) seems to have the best
> deal but I don't see any reference to them in the archives. Is there
> something better? I have the stock oil screen right now....
I have been using the Niagara adapter for over 350 hrs with no problems.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Eaves" <doneaves(at)midsouth.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OIL FILTER ADAPTER? |
I have one and it has preformed great for 150+ hours of my current 200+
hours.
It was the best $ back then and if it still is, buy it.
Don
Don Eaves
doneaves(at)midsouth.rr.com
RV 6 Flying 200 + Hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: OIL FILTER ADAPTER?
>
> Which is the best oil filter adapter to get for my O-360? Niagara
> (http://www.niagaraairparts.com/ scroll down) seems to have the best
> deal but I don't see any reference to them in the archives. Is there
> something better? I have the stock oil screen right now....
>
> Thx,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lwfeatherston(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OIL FILTER ADAPTER? |
Just to add to this thread, has anybody had success with an AIR/OIL
SEPARATOR? And are there any side by side comparisons with different brands of
oil
coolers. I purchased a Positech cooler about 2 years ago, and when I flew this
August, my oil temps were about 225F. I chased the problem for several weeks
($650) until a hangar mate told me to call Positech as they had made some bad
coolers. Positech would never admit it, but I heard that they made a batch of
coolers with 1/8 inch tubing, instead of 1/4 inch. They certainly were
insistent that I send in the defective cooler A.S.A.P. To their credit they sent
me
a new one, and oil temp dropped 30 degrees. Anybody else with Positech
problems???? Any other cooler recommendations? Thanks, Les
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap rod length |
On my RV7 it is 4 1/16".
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Flap rod length
>
> For 6 or 6As with electric flaps:
>
> Drawing 42 shows the length of the flap rod as 3 1/2 inches for the
> manual flaps. The electic flap instructions don't specify the length.
> With the torque tube being relocated, it seems that the length of the
> rods might need to change. What length have you used for these?
>
> Jeff Point
> Milwaukee WI
> RV-6 finishing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward_W. O_Connor" <edwardoconnor(at)mac.com> |
RV-8 list
Does anyone know if the SS line for the prop governor on a Lyc 0-320 is the same
as one on a 0-360? Are they the same part number etc? I may be able to get
one from a 0-320 if it fits. Thanks
Ed OConnor/RV-8 N366RV/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
You might try Wentworth Aircraft. They have everything. I needed the gears
when I put my engine together too. I can't remember the specific price but I
think it was about 1/2 the Lycoming suggested price. They advertise in
Trade a Plane but I think the Phone # is 1800 wentworth.
Good Luck these are hard to find,
Ed Perry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV-List: Mag gear
>
> My O-360 came with the left mag only. I'm fitting the Rose ignition to
> the right side, but I'm short the mag gear. Where is the best place to
> procure a gear?
>
> Thx,
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap rod length |
In a message dated 11/10/03 6:54:12 PM Eastern Standard Time,
jpoint(at)mindspring.com writes:
> For 6 or 6As with electric flaps:
>
> Drawing 42 shows the length of the flap rod as 3 1/2 inches for the
> manual flaps. The electric flap instructions don't specify the length.
> With the torque tube being relocated, it seems that the length of the
> rods might need to change. What length have you used for these?
>
> Jeff Point
>
Jeff,
Recently did mine on a 6A and found that they could have easily been a half
inch longer. There are more threads showing on the rod ends than I like. Have
been thinking about making a new set at 4 inches.
Dale Ensing
Aero Plantation NC21
North Carolina
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
Jeff --
I measured mine (RV-8) and the left rod is 6 5/16" and the right is 6
1/2". Don't know why they're different lengths, but the tapped ends allow
the rod-end bearing to screw in and out for adjustment. Mine have been
final fitted and adjusted and subsequently removed and hung on the shop wall
still attached to the flaps. Hope this helps.
Ken Brooks
RV-8QB in progress
N1903P resvd
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gil Alexander <gilalex(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Gov Line |
The O-320 numbers are 75166, 75167, and 75730... different numbers for
different end combinations.
Since the O-320 cases are essentially the same as the O-360, I would think
they should fit, perhaps someone could fill in the )-360 numbers??
gil in Tucson
>
>Does anyone know if the SS line for the prop governor on a Lyc 0-320 is
>the same as one on a 0-360? Are they the same part number etc? I may be
>able to get one from a 0-320 if it fits. Thanks
>Ed OConnor/RV-8 N366RV/Sandy Creek Airpark/Panama City FL
>
>
RV-6A, #20701 .. fitting out firewall...
77 Tiger N28478 at 57AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "MSices" <msices(at)core.com> |
| Subject: | Flying Question, need advise |
I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI in
his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never done
that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
Mike Sices
RV8 complete
Kenosha, WI
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | re: hartwell latch |
MAILTO_WITH_SUBJ(at)matronics.com
Dave,
I used (2) Camlock KM-610-64 on the oil access door. These latches are typically
used on Cessna's. I much preferred the profile to the Hartwell H-5000 series,
the spring loaded button is about the diameter of a nickel. Don't make the
mistake I did and order them through a Cessna dealer. They charged me $60 for
two, and I subsequently found the identical hardware at B&B Aircraft parts
at the Flymart in Oshkosh for $7.50 each.
Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
Subject: hartwell latchFrom: Dave Ford (dford(at)michweb.net)Date: Sun Nov
09 - 5:32 PM
Hartwell latch that has the round push lever instead of the rectangularspring
loaded one seen in ACS. There is a part number on this brokenone that I have
of H601S-100-C356. Anyone know of a source for this?Dave FordRV6 finishing
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
>>I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
>hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI in
>his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
>Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
>lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
>the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
>constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
>airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
>the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
>and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never
>done
>that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
>land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
>many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
>fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
>Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
>pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
>
>
>Mike Sices
>RV8 complete
>Kenosha, WI
It's certainly wise and prudent from a safety standpoint, to recognize your
own limitations. Your checkout in the -6 is most likely ample to safely
operate the -8, although the gear geometry is indeed different. The -8 begs
to be wheel landed, tail low, and is quite controllable with excellent
visibility forward in this mode. If you can land a Citabria, you can land
an RV8. Bring it down in a stabilized final, roundout and hold a tail low
attitude at almost zero sink rate close to the ground and wheel it on. I
bring the flaps up immediately to dump excess lift and allow the tail to
come down slowly. From there, it's just the usual taildragger dance and
you're done.
FWIW, I had much less total time than you before I did the first flight of
my RV8 and it all went very well. I did get a five hour RV8 dual checkout
with Jeff Ludwig in Florida for insurance purposes, and also because he's a
great guy with a beautiful RV8! If you can't find an RV8 CFI with a
suitably equipped airplane (rear seat pedals and throttle), then I would
consider time in a Citabria or Decathlon to be a viable alternative.
Don't sweat it. You'll do fine. :)
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
Four years of RV grins.
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Vasey" <keith(at)galvinflying.com> |
| Subject: | Flying Question, need advise |
Mike, if a pilot has a concern that urges him to be more conservative, that
pilot should always trust that instinct. The pilots I admire most are the
pilots that understand (and admit) their personal limitations. I suggest you
get an experienced RV pilot to burn the first few hours in your aircraft and
have that pilot check you out in it until you have complete confidence.
That's my opinion.
Keith Vasey
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of MSices
Subject: RV-List: Flying Question, need advise
I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI in
his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never done
that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
Mike Sices
RV8 complete
Kenosha, WI
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
MSices wrote:
>
>
>I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
>hand.
>
Congratulations!!!
> Everything is ready to go except me.
>
This can be fixed.
> I got a checkout from a CFI in
>his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
>
Well, there's a professional opinion.
>Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
>lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
>the first flight
>
Flying an airplane that you built, and flying it the first time is a
major milestone. When I flew my homebuilt Pitts S-1 the first time, I
had never even sat in one before ..... well, I did get some 'stick time'
while it was being built :-D .
> -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
>constant speed prop etc).
>
More training can't possibly hurt. I flew anything with a tailwheel
that I could get my hands on!
> I am very confident in my ability to fly the
>airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
>the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
>and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never done
>that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
>land because of the spring gear which bounces easily.
>
There is a cure for the bounce! It's the throttle! If it bounces very
much, go around and try again. You would be much better off with some
RV8 time just to make you feel more comfortable.
> I was wondering how
>many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
>fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
>
Hmmm. Now why didn't I think of that!
>Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
>pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
>
I hope someone steps up to the plate. A goodly chunk of homebuilt
accidents occur on the first flight, and the better prepared you are,
the better chance of a great 'first flight'. I wouldn't trade my
experience for anything. It was severely gratifying, but remember that
it's just emotion we're talking about here. Even if you find someone
with a -8 that will fly with you ..... and you're still not comfortable,
ask him to do the honors. You've given another -8 pilot a big
compliment, and you may prevent premature customization of your airplane.
I guess I have to say, if you're not REAL confident in your ability,
please find a test pilot. You want to do this the saest way you can!
Linn
>
>
>Mike Sices
>RV8 complete
>Kenosha, WI
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
I would absolutely second your thinking! Add to this the fact that you need
to keep the power up with a new engine and you've really got your hands
full. While these airplanes If I lived anywhere near you I'd volunteer, but
I'm sure you can find an experienced RV pilot willing to assist.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 360 hrs
----- Original Message -----
From: "MSices" <msices(at)core.com>
Subject: RV-List: Flying Question, need advise
>
>
> I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
> hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI
in
> his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
> Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs)
and
> lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to
do
> the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
> constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
> airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
> the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
> and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never
done
> that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
> land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
> many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
> fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
> Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
> pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on
this.
>
>
> Mike Sices
> RV8 complete
> Kenosha, WI
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patty Gillies" <PGILLIES(at)gwm.sc.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Mike,
I flew my airplane for the first time after much soul searching and
training. I always thought I would get a test pilot for the first
flight, but when it was time I wanted to do it!! I did get a bunch of
training with Mike Seager, probably more hours than anyone else he
transitional trained ( I am a slow learner:). I also had a Cessna 140
which I flew quite a bit and was very comfortable with taildraggers. I
had everyone I could think of go through pre first flight checklists,
so I was comfortable with the airplane.
I think you need to feel good about everything: your abilities, the
weather, and the airplane, before you go up. If I were you I would
leave the RV in the hangar, get more training until you feel confident
with your flying, but be the first.
It is really something to fly the airplane you built for the very
first time. It is a day I will never forget.
Patty Hamilton
RV-6 Flying
>>> msices(at)core.com 11/11/2003 10:54:26 AM >>>
I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate
in
hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a
CFI in
his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first
flight.
Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs)
and
lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone
to do
the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has
200hp,
constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly
the
airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony
of
the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger
experience
and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never
done
that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult
to
land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering
how
many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane
to
fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8
time.
Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV
test
pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on
this.
Mike Sices
RV8 complete
Kenosha, WI
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | fuselage longeron & skin overhang at aft bulkhead |
MSGID_OE_SPAM_4ZERO
In building the fuselage (RV-6A), I left the skin and main longeron extended
past the tail F-612 bulkhead, planning to trim as needed when I fit the vert
& horiz stabs. Now that the fuselage is out of the jig and sitting on
sawhorses, I see that I cannot get the vertical stab flush with the aft
bulkhead until after trimming the main longerons back.
My question is, should I trim everything (skins too) right up flush with
that last bulkhead, or should there be some skin extending back a little
past the F-612? Any close up photos of the attached tail section on any of
your web sites?
Thanks for your help!
Chris Hand
RV-6A, #23559
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
>
>
>I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
>hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI in
>his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
>Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
>lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
>the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
>constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
>airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
>the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
>and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never done
>that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
>land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
>many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
>fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
>Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
>pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
>
>Mike Sices
Mike,
You certainly shouldn't do the first flight unless you are
comfortable with it. At the moment, you may have the skills
required, but the fact that you are not comfortable is a show
stopper. So, I see two options:
1. Get some taildragger time and some RV-8 time and then see if you
become comfortable with doing the first flight, or
2. Have someone else do the first flight.
There is no reason to rush into this, or let someone else talk you
into doing something you are not comfortable with.
Fly safe,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise (long winded as usual) |
Mike,
Lots of knowledge is being dispensed here, but what you need is wisdom.
From what I read of your post, you need only look in the mirror to find it.
Anyone who can fly any of the T/W RVs can fly any of them. HOWEVER!!!!
Being able to land the airplane is not the standard for a test pilot!
I am not speaking to you here only Mike, but to the masses. I read the NTSB
reports and there are WAAAAAYYYYY toooooo many Experimental accidents.
Fortunately most of them are not RVs and proportionally, both in terms of
number of aircraft, but even more impressive, number of hours flown, RVs do
very well. Having said that, the risks are much higher on the first flight.
The kinds of questions that need to be answered to make the decision Mike is
facing are: Could I fly the airplane with the Airspeed inop or worse yet
inaccurate. Can I land the airplane on a precise spot, at minimum
controllable speed without power? Can I fly the airplane if it is seriously
out of trim or rig? Can I stay on the runway if the wheel alignment is bad
or with a flat tire? Do I have a plan? Do I have the knowledge to make a
plan. These and many others are questions that need to be answered before a
first flight.
I had a canopy come off (Tipover type with no windshield) on a second flight
once) at 175 KIAS. You can't believe the pressure! This was in an airplane
(1500 hp turbine) that came down final at 100 knots. I could not read any
of the instruments, It required all of my physical strength to keep my head
up against the wind and thrust, and the airplane had an aft CG problem so
the pitch was wild. Things can go wrong in the test phase. The first thing
in my mind was selling the airplane to the insurance company (getting out)
but the flight controls all worked so I flew it back and landed. A big
question is: Will I sacrifice the airplane to save my skin without a second
thought?????? Personally, I know the answer to that question.
Mike, I would not tell you what to do, I am only trying to provide you and
others with the tools to make a safe decision. I know of several homebuilts
that were flown of first flights by pilots who barely got the job done and
nothing was wrong with the airplane. If there had been ANY kind of a
problem, there would have been a funeral. One of these guys I counseled and
he told me he did not know what he was doing on his wedding night and he got
through that. That sounds good, but it is a poor analogy. I don't know of
anyone who got killed on their wedding night.
The CFI that checked you out in his RV-6 might be a perfect candidate. You
do not need some superstar like Dave Morss to fly your airplane, just
someone you trust, who flies allot, in RVs and lots of different airplanes,
with the mechanical aptitude to look your airplane over. Someone who doesn't
care whether or not the wind is blowing goes flying anyway. This highlights
another problem, sometimes people ask others to fly their airplanes and they
decline. Then maybe a second look at the airplane is in order. I know of 2
recently rebuilt homebuilts that are sitting on the ground because the
pilots are not qualified and no one will fly them. Because they were
rebuilds, neither of these airplanes had a DAR inspection. Before I fly
something, I am going to take a pretty good look at it.
We crash too many Exp. airplanes and too many on first flights. This is one
area that would be easy to fix. The EAA flight advisor program is a good
start at this problem. If we don't take more care in preparing for and
selecting who does first flights, the Feds will do it for us.
Stepping down from the box
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
>
>
> I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
> hand. Everything is ready to go except me.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Mike,
One of my F16 squadron mates recently bought an RV4 and received dual in a Cessna
140 before his first flight. I refused to ride with him since there isn't
much in the back seat of the 4 (or the 8) that I could do to affect the outcome
of a calamity. Instead, I chose the route we use in the F16, "chase". I took
off on his wing and shadowed the entire flight, takeoff to touchdown on a grass
strip, something I highly recommend. He did great and I stuck like glue on
his wing until it was back in the chocks.
Like Kevin said, if you're not ready, don't do it. However, having test flown
four new RV's I can tell you the feeling is incredible.
If you decide to fly it ( I would) :
1. Do a blindfold cockpit check, review emergency procedures and have a plan on
the flight.
2. Get someone competent to chase you (I'll do it for $$$ ha!) and brief the mission
as if you would any test flight.
3. Run the engine at full throttle for 30 seconds on the ground with the tail CHAINED
down and chocked and the mains elevated if possible. De-cowl and inspect.
4. Fly off grass...
Good Luck, if you need a test or chase pilot, let me know.
RR
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
>I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
>hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI in
>his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
>Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
>lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
>the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
>constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
>airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
>the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
>and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never done
>that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
>land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
>many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
>fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
>Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
>pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
>
>Mike Sices
Mike,
You certainly shouldn't do the first flight unless you are
comfortable with it. At the moment, you may have the skills
required, but the fact that you are not comfortable is a show
stopper. So, I see two options:
1. Get some taildragger time and some RV-8 time and then see if you
become comfortable with doing the first flight, or
2. Have someone else do the first flight.
There is no reason to rush into this, or let someone else talk you
into doing something you are not comfortable with.
Fly safe,
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Wayne R. Couture wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> At least have someone else with experience in RV's fly your first
> flight. Even though you may think your ready to fly it, are you prepared if
> something goes wrong? A friend of mine just completed his 8 and was pretty
> insistent on flying the first flight, but a group of us talked him out of
> it. Though the flight was uneventful, he was much more comfortable knowing
> that he didn't have to worry about something unexpected happening. Before
> your first flight, do some fast taxi's and be sure you have good directional
> control with the tail up before taking off. Then have fun!
Good advice.......with the possible exception of the last part, "Before
your first flight, do some fast taxi's and be sure you have good
directional control with the tail up before taking off".
In my opinion, fast taxi's are an invitation to major trouble if the
pilot is not rather proficient in the plane. The problem with fast taxi
is that you do not intend to fly the plane, but the plane thinks it is
going flying! And...often it does, whether the pilot is ready or not....
Once the plane gets airborne, the suddenly shocked pilot finds himself
in a most awkward position. The plane thought it was getting ready to
rip into the sky, but it now finds that the pilot wants it in landing
configuration. What we now have is a very confused RV, and a somewhat
clueless pilot who doesn't know how to properly land an RV following a
very low altitude flight! :-)
It is far easier to land an RV from pattern altitude than after a flight
that only attained 15' AGL. Things happen very fast and the pilot finds
himself trying to land the plane without flaps, proper power setting,
the correct speed, and the necessary mental attitude. Unfortunately,
many accidents have occurred following unintentional flight, and many of
the bent aircraft could probably have been saved it the pilot had waited
until he was ready to fly the plane, then blasted off at full throttle
and reached pattern altitude as soon as possible.
I don't like fast taxiing before first flights, don't see what it
accomplishes, and think it is one of the most risky maneuvers an
inexperienced pilot can possible try in a new plane. It is far better to
learn to takeoff and land a similar airplane with an instructor
beside/behind us than to try to teach ourselves how to land from 10' AGL
in an unfamiliar aircraft.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longeron & skin overhang at aft bulkhead |
I think you will want to leave the skins as they are. Mine extend back
about 3/8 from the aft edge of the bulkhead flange. You don't want to
trim the longerons too far, because the elevator stop/ VS brace bolts to
them. I will try to take some pictures and send them to you later.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing
Milwaukee WI
Chris & Kellie Hand wrote:
>
>In building the fuselage (RV-6A), I left the skin and main longeron extended
>past the tail F-612 bulkhead, planning to trim as needed when I fit the vert
>& horiz stabs. Now that the fuselage is out of the jig and sitting on
>sawhorses, I see that I cannot get the vertical stab flush with the aft
>bulkhead until after trimming the main longerons back.
>
>My question is, should I trim everything (skins too) right up flush with
>that last bulkhead, or should there be some skin extending back a little
>past the F-612? Any close up photos of the attached tail section on any of
>your web sites?
>
>Thanks for your help!
>
>Chris Hand
>RV-6A, #23559
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a Garmin GPSMAP196?
Everyone seems to list them for $999. Im not looking for any added
accessories, just the standard package at the lowest price. Reply off list
if youd like.
Thanks.
Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP sold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
Avionics West $879
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
>Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a Garmin GPSMAP196?
>Everyone seems to list them for $999. Im not looking for any added
>accessories, just the standard package at the lowest price. Reply off list
>if youd like.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP sold
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Brumbelow <csbrumbelow(at)fedex.com> |
Jerry Carter"
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Having just flown my RV-8A a week and a half ago, I STRONGLY urge you to get
someone else to do the first flight. You are clearly not really
comfortable/settled with the idea of doing this yourself (I wasn't either with
mine), and as others have pointed out, FOLLOW YOUR INSTINCTS ON THIS ONE.
As I mentioned in my first flight email, a local friend let me fly his for an
hour the day before my aircraft's flight. I had NO troubles with the aircraft,
but still was unsettled flying mine first. It is one thing to be a competent
pilot; something all together different to be a competent TEST pilot. And I do
not feel I am the latter.
After letting me fly his, Jerry graciously offered to do the first flight in
mine. Yes it was extremely nerve-wracking for me to watch him taking my aircraft
(obvious concern for his well being and the airplane) but I knew it was the
safest, best option. And when he got back and was able to say "it flies just like
mine" I had all the confidence I needed to do the second flight. I cannot
overemphasize how huge that was.
One other important recommendation that gave me and Jerry as much confidence in
the first flights as possible... Do all the testing you can on the ground. Engine
runs, taxi tests, etc. I did several slow taxies around the airport - testing
brakes (individually and together), tracking, etc. I only did one "semi" fast
taxi test down the runway (a hair over 40 mph). We also tested the fuel system
thoroughly, including simulated "climb" engine performance (i.e., a friend
sitting on the tail, running the engine up to about 1,800 rpm, switching tanks,
etc.) I didn't want to go overboard with all of this (with a new engine, I
couldn't) - but there are certainly basic tests you CAN perform.
Yes, I know there are those on the list that will consider me a pansy for my
conservative approach, but YOU are the pilot and it is YOUR airplane. Don't let
anyone (including yourself) talk you into doing something you are not comfortable
with. There are those who told me that I would regret not taking the first
flight, but I am here to tell you that is not remotely the case. I have NO
regrets and would do it exactly the same way again. The safety of the flights FAR
outweighed the thrill of doing the "first" flight myself. In about 17 hours, I
am
going to be far more focused on the "thrill" of flying my wife and kids and
friends rather than regretting not doing the virgin flight myself. In fact, I
would suspect that by then I will never really be thinking about that virgin
flight again...
Good Luck!
Scott in MEM
RV-8A: 8.1 hours
do your homework on the ground
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and airworthiness certificate in
> >hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got a checkout from a CFI in
> >his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready to do my first flight.
> >Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with my low time (500hrs) and
> >lack or recent experience, that I would be better off finding someone to do
> >the first flight -or- get more training (also considering my 8 has 200hp,
> >constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in my ability to fly the
> >airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness and control harmony of
> >the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my tail dragger experience
> >and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first flight having never done
> >that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the -8 is more difficult to
> >land because of the spring gear which bounces easily. I was wondering how
> >many of you would second that thought. If the -8 is a different plane to
> >fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would be to get some -8 time.
> >Anyone know of anyone that does training in their 8? How about a RV test
> >pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance for your advise on this.
> >
> >Mike Sices
>
> Mike,
>
> You certainly shouldn't do the first flight unless you are
> comfortable with it. At the moment, you may have the skills
> required, but the fact that you are not comfortable is a show
> stopper. So, I see two options:
>
> 1. Get some taildragger time and some RV-8 time and then see if you
> become comfortable with doing the first flight, or
>
> 2. Have someone else do the first flight.
>
> There is no reason to rush into this, or let someone else talk you
> into doing something you are not comfortable with.
>
> Fly safe,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net> |
Call John Stark, 706-321-1008, Stark avionics.
I just got one a couple months back. $850 + $20 shipping.
Don Mack
-----Original Message-----
Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a Garmin GPSMAP196?
Everyone seems to list them for $999. Im not looking for any added
accessories, just the standard package at the lowest price. Reply off list
if youd like.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
I'd support John Stark, the man who consistently gives RVators good prices
and service...
$850 + fair and inexpensive shipping charges.
http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/index.htm
Dave Burton
RV6
(no relation)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV-List: GPSMAP196 Price
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a Garmin GPSMAP196?
> Everyone seems to list them for $999. Im not looking for any added
> accessories, just the standard package at the lowest price. Reply off
list
> if youd like.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP sold
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise-fast taxi |
I agree Boyd we have to have people who are willing to accept risks and we
should allow them to do that. The difference is, looking a risk, making a
plan to mitigate it as much as possible through training, planning,
experience, etc. and a builder with 100 hours TT blindly jumping in an
airplane for a first flight like it was no big deal are not the same thing.
I think too many people fail to acknowledge the risk involved in First
Flights. Only after you acknowledge the risk, can you honestly work on a
strategy to mitigate it.
There is no sin in an astronaut getting a kick out of a rocket ride, but not
being prepared for it is unforgivable.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
>
> But, remember, some people get a real kick out of taking chances and
> challenging themselves--I'm not saying it's smart or even
> desirable--but some people do that. Can we control everyone's
> behaviour?--obviously not--people who are addicted to
> drugs/chemicals/alcohol/sex/gambling/speed/danger are insane while
> they're addicted, but yet we try to logically talk to them--look at our
> track record with them--and, our brilliant War On Drugs? That's why
> there are test pilots who break new ground/barriers/expand the
> envelope--maybe they're either crazy or courageous?--I don't know--but
> think of the history of the world without these people--and, yes, some
> of them died--but, from what I know (or read), most of them knew this
> option before hand.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Smokyray wrote:
Instead, I chose the route we use in the F16, "chase". I took off on his wing and
shadowed the entire flight, takeoff to touchdown on a grass strip, something
I highly recommend. He did great and I stuck like glue on his wing until it
was back in the chocks.
I hate to bash on a F16 driver on Veterans Day but I don't think this is the best
advice for a first flight by an inexperienced pilot. I'm sure this works great
for military pilots who have gone through training in formation flight. The
average first time builder who has been buzzing around the patch in a C-150/172
is not going to be comfortable seeing another plane 20 feet away in flight
for the first time. It is only going to add to the stress of the first flight
if youre not comfortable in formation already.
BTWThanks to all those who served.
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids, IA
RV-8 N8EM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nels Hanson <pa201950(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Kevin, You can call me sometime at 847-975-0540 and I
could give you the names of at least two people who
might be interested in flying your RV-8 for the first
flight. They have both done "first flights" and are
great guys,and both have RV taildragger experience. We
are in the Chicago-Rockford area.
--- Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>
>
> >
> >
> >I am now ready to fly with my painted RV8 and
> airworthiness certificate in
> >hand. Everything is ready to go except me. I got
> a checkout from a CFI in
> >his RV6 and he signed me off and thinks I am ready
> to do my first flight.
> >Still, I can't help but trust my feeling that with
> my low time (500hrs) and
> >lack or recent experience, that I would be better
> off finding someone to do
> >the first flight -or- get more training (also
> considering my 8 has 200hp,
> >constant speed prop etc). I am very confident in
> my ability to fly the
> >airplane, and I have a feel for the responsiveness
> and control harmony of
> >the RV series, I just feel a little rusty with my
> tail dragger experience
> >and am a little nervous to land an RV8 on its first
> flight having never done
> >that before. An RV8 pilot I know told me that the
> -8 is more difficult to
> >land because of the spring gear which bounces
> easily. I was wondering how
> >many of you would second that thought. If the -8
> is a different plane to
> >fly and land, then it seems the prudent move would
> be to get some -8 time.
> >Anyone know of anyone that does training in their
> 8? How about a RV test
> >pilot near the Kenosha, WI area. Thanks in advance
> for your advise on this.
> >
> >Mike Sices
>
> Mike,
>
> You certainly shouldn't do the first flight unless
> you are
> comfortable with it. At the moment, you may have
> the skills
> required, but the fact that you are not comfortable
> is a show
> stopper. So, I see two options:
>
> 1. Get some taildragger time and some RV-8 time and
> then see if you
> become comfortable with doing the first flight, or
>
> 2. Have someone else do the first flight.
>
> There is no reason to rush into this, or let someone
> else talk you
> into doing something you are not comfortable with.
>
> Fly safe,
>
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> generous
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Hi Alan,
It takes alot more than that to bash me, trust me. I only suggested a chase pilot
if he decided to do his own test flight. Realistically, an experienced test
pilot is always a good option, if one is available. A rear seat observer/pilot
in a RV4 or 8 couldn't do alot in the landing phase which is the most critical
phase anyway and due to regs, it's not an option. Having done a couple of
test flights I personally think it is well within the grasp of most "competent"
aviators but like every other aspect of aviation it involves risk. If chased
correctly the test pilot shouldn't even know he is there.
Personally, I'm glad the Wright brothers did their own test flight.
Happy Veterans day.
RR
N13eer(at)aol.com wrote:
Smokyray wrote:
Instead, I chose the route we use in the F16, "chase". I took off on his wing and
shadowed the entire flight, takeoff to touchdown on a grass strip, something
I highly recommend. He did great and I stuck like glue on his wing until it
was back in the chocks.
I hate to bash on a F16 driver on Veterans Day but I don't think this is the best
advice for a first flight by an inexperienced pilot. I'm sure this works great
for military pilots who have gone through training in formation flight. The
average first time builder who has been buzzing around the patch in a C-150/172
is not going to be comfortable seeing another plane 20 feet away in flight
for the first time. It is only going to add to the stress of the first flight
if youre not comfortable in formation already.
BTWThanks to all those who served.
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids, IA
RV-8 N8EM
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
tests=FROM_HAS_UNDERLINE_NUMS
Tying into what was said below, I suggest finding someone else to make the
first flight or two. If you have to ask, you're not ready. Sounds
simplistic, but reading your post you seem to lack the level of confidence
it takes to *not* be nervous on the first flight. Nerves and apprehention
are what gets in the way on first flights. Also, using an experienced
pilot, their level of stress will be lower. It's a win-win situation - no
bent airplane and no bent pilot.
As for the fast taxi thing, don't try and make high speed extended
taxis/runs. If you *have to*, just power up to about 1/3-1/2 throttle and
allow the plane to acellerate to some speed. Say 30-kts the first time.
When you see the selected speed, pull the throttle *to idle* and just let it
coast to slow taxi speed. Repeat a time or two at higher speeds. BUT, I
wouldn't recommend this for the reasons already mentioned. It'd be easy to
damage an engine if you don't watch the temps. Also, if you're not
confident and proficient enough to make the first flight anyway, don't set
yourself up for a groundloop making these runs. They're possibly more
dangerous than a first takeoff and flight.
I agree with Brian D's comments on the -8. Got a few hours in them myself.
If you still feel like you have to make the flight, get some high(er)
performance time in something like a Pitts or other unlimited acro plane
(T&G's if you can) in addition to honing your tailwheel skills in a Citabria
or Decathlon just prior to the flight. This is how I did it. Oh, and don't
get slow on final!
Good luck.
Bryan Jones -8 ~580 hrs
Pearland, Texas
>Having just flown my RV-8A a week and a half ago, I STRONGLY urge you to
>get
>someone else to do the first flight. You are clearly not really
>comfortable/settled with the idea of doing this yourself (I wasn't either
>with
>mine), and as others have pointed out, FOLLOW YOUR INSTINCTS ON THIS ONE.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Mike and others,
Kind of interesting how much comment there has been on this topic so fast.
I test military airplanes for a living as an F-18 backseater. (US Navy Test
Pilot School Class 114.) One of the most basic principles of flight test is to
never test two flight-critical systems at the same time. If you're not an experienced
RV-8 pilot, then flying the first flight means testing the new airplane
(all of it) at the same time that you are testing YOU, the pilot. YOU are
a flight-critical system (arguably the most important one).
I didn't build my RV-4, I bought it, but I can relate to the desire to do the
first flight yourself. I submit that this desire is emotional, and therefore
has no bearing on the decision. The laws of physics and gravity don't respect
emotion.
If I were in your shoes, I'd do the following. Get an experienced RV pilot,
preferably an experienced RV-8 pilot, to do the first flight. The test pilot
on the first flight should be able to fly by instinct, second nature, by the seat
of his pants (insert cliche of choice here) in an emergency. Doug Rozendahl's
advice about the statistical increase of accidents on first flights is completely
correct. Also, follow Rob Ray's excellent advice and get a chase airplane
flown by an experienced formation pilot. The ideal chase plane will be
similar in performance to the RV-8, have excellent field of view left, right,
and above (tandem is therefore preferred over side-by-side) and with a back seat.
In other words, an RV-8/8A or RV-4 would be best, although not required.
Also, to allow you to participate in the first flight in the best, safest, and
most appropriate way possible, fly in the back seat of the chase. You will
be right there on the first flight, without having to worry about actually flying
the chase plane and not hitting the other guy. Bring a video comera, both
to record the flight for posterity and for post-flight review of the test flight.
Fly the test flight on 122.75 (authorized FAA formation frequency) and either
(a) have the test pilot narrate what he's doing over the radio so that someone
on the ground can copy it all down (relieving the pilot of the need to
take notes, so that he can concentrate on flying the airplane), or (b) wire the
test airplane's intercom with a small tape recorder to record the test pilots
verbal comments. These qualtitative evaluations of test flight are among the
most valuable data you'll get.
Lastly, regarding taxi tests... more accidents occur on hi-speed taxi tests than
on first flights, precisely because we take first flights so much more seriously.
Accidents usually occur on "routine training missions" exactly because
we're not flying around expecting something to go wrong (like we do on first
flights). The key parameter for doing taxi tests is runway length, and to a
lesser extent, headwind and density altitude, since these all affect takeoff distance
and therefore abort distance. If you've got the airplane at a short-runway
field, think real hard about taxi tests. A high-speed taxi test is basically
an intentional high-speed abors, which on a short runway means
intentional a high-speed ground emergency. Treat it accordingly. However, if
you do decide to do them, go to idle no later than liftoff speed, preferably minus
5 knots or so. DON'T get airborne accidentally, and approach any taxi test
as though it might turn into the first flight... which means that you should
not do any taxi tests with the potential to get airborne. This would be an
excellent chance to let your test pilot to get a little cockpit time in your particular
plane before going up.
One final point. There are so many RV pilots flying around that I'd like to
propose something to the RV community. Let's band together to help out our comrades
oin this situation. Mike, I can't recall where you're based, but if it's
near Rob Ray in the Southeast, take him up on his offer to fly chase in his
RV-4. Some other experienced RV-8 pilot near Mike, volunteer to do the first
flight. There are plenty of experienced RV pilots out there who can serve as
test pilots, and more formation-experienced guys out there than you might think.
If nothing else, it's a chance to meet others in the fraternity.
In military flight test, we treat a First Flight with all the seriousness of
a space shot. Some readers of this list might think all my writing here is paranoid
overkill, but if you get killed in an RV-8, you're just as dead as if
you get killed in an F-16.
Pedro
rob ray wrote:
Hi Alan,
It takes alot more than that to bash me, trust me. I only suggested a chase pilot
if he decided to do his own test flight. Realistically, an experienced test
pilot is always a good option, if one is available. A rear seat observer/pilot
in a RV4 or 8 couldn't do alot in the landing phase which is the most critical
phase anyway and due to regs, it's not an option. Having done a couple of test
flights I personally think it is well within the grasp of most "competent"
aviators but like every other aspect of aviation it involves risk. If chased
correctly the test pilot shouldn't even know he is there.
Personally, I'm glad the Wright brothers did their own test flight.
Happy Veterans day.
RR
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long) |
This was posted anonymously on the Blue Mountain Avionics website today.
There is also a lengthy discussion of the subject by Greg Richter of Blue
Mountain on their website today. Have a look at bluemountainavionics.com if
you want a more detailed explanation of how it works by the man who
developed it.
Terry
Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 3:10 pm:
----
The BMA AHRS works with or without GPS in the latest configuration. There is
disinformation being spread by Grand Rapids Instruments that implies the BMA
AHRS requires GPS. The BMA AHRS solutuion is a rigorously developed Kalman
Filter that performs optimal estimation with or without GPS aiding. It is
much like an INS/GPS. The INS will work without the GPS, it just works
better with GPS for it's fundamental mission. The GRI propaganda is
attempting to bring merit to an inferior solution. It really does take far
more work to do the GPS integration and then to constantly operate in a
degraded mode. A GPS aided AHRS will knock the socks off a non-aided AHRS in
performance -- military or commercial.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long)
But the remote possibility of total loss of GPS data for an extended
period of time is why I don't favor EFIS's that include GPS in the AHRS
solution (Blue Mountain?). It would be preferable to only lose full
functionality of the wing leveler to having flight instruments get
flakey because they can't hear the satellites.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
I think the $999 price is what Garmin insists all vendors ADVERTISE. Most will
sell you the 196 for cheaper. Aircraft Spruce offered one to me at the Camarillo
Airshow for $869. I passed because of the 7% California sales tax. I ended
up getting a basically-new unit, with antenna and bracket, for $915 on eBay.
Pedro
David Burton wrote:
I'd support John Stark, the man who consistently gives RVators good prices
and service...
$850 + fair and inexpensive shipping charges.
http://www.mindspring.com/~jts7/index.htm
Dave Burton
RV6
(no relation)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dennis Persyk"
Subject: RV-List: GPSMAP196 Price
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a Garmin GPSMAP196?
> Everyone seems to list them for $999. Im not looking for any added
> accessories, just the standard package at the lowest price. Reply off
list
> if youd like.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP sold
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
The problem I have with Van's read on the aileron fix is that it doesn't ask
you to isolate the problem correctly.
The first thing you need to know is if the problem is caused by a mis rig,
or if it is caused by an imbalance of force.
This is determined by holding the stick dead center in flight, if it doesn't
roll and the ailerons are at neutral then the aircraft ailerons, wings, etc.
are rigged correctly. If you let go and the ailerons find a different spot
then its a force issue. But if it won't fly straight with the stick at
neutral then you need to re-rig it, then fly again to check for force
balance issues.
To rig it correctly one must then check for symetry of all flight and
control surfaces as well as bell cranks and rod lengths. If the flight
surfaces aren't symetrical then fix this(big ouch). Then place all control
surfaces, bellcranks, and the stick at their respective neutrals and lock in
place, then adjust rods to fit.
Once you have determined the problem is only an issue of forces then you can
start checking to see if the ailerons are mispositioned or the trailing
edges are asymetrical.
I use a cut out profile made from foam placed on the wing end, sans the tip,
with the aileron at neutral. Its pretty easy to move this to the other ends
of both ailerons and see if there is a significant asymetry.
One can also do this in a smaller fashion with stiff paper to profile the
trailing edges as well much like propellers are made with brass profiles.
Now to fixes. If the airlerons are mispositioned slightly, fix it with
trailing edge adjustments, as this is much easier to do, and it won't
dramatically alter airspeeds or effeciencies. If the ailerons are way off
(1/8" or more) then bite the bullet and get new steel aileron brackets.
Also note that if both brackets on one end are off a lot then the aileron
could be ok in neutral, but the altered pivot point for that end will cause
the wing chord to change differently then the other end will.
If they are mounted correctly then profile the trailing edge and reduce the
radius of the lighter wing for a portion of the span. It only takes a little
to make a big change and it will be easier to see what changed after a
squeeze or flattening using a profile. Also reduce the span area where its
the fattest, or increase where its the narrowest so that the full span of
the aileron is more even in trailing edge radius.
Meanwhile keep your fuel load fairly even while testing. Also don't reduce
your radius below that recommended as a minumum for that thickness of 2024
T-3. See AC43.13-1B Change 1
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | GPS-less flight with the Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot |
> Charlie & Tupper England wrote:
>>
>> I have a question based on what I read on their web site. Have either
>> of you disabled your GPS feed to the a/p to check its reaction? The
>> web site seems to indicate that there is no backup for loss of heading
>> info from the GPS.
After Charlie's "challenge" < :-) > I made a flight this evening for
the purpose of flying the EZ-Pilot without GPS to see how it would react
to loss of reference data.
After getting the plane established on heading and altitude in light
turbulence with the EZ-Pilot engaged, I turned off the Lowrance Airmap
100 and watched as the EZ-Pilot display indicated "No GPS". For two
minutes the flight continued as before except for a drift of about five
degrees in heading. I could not feel a difference in the way the
auto-pilot, now wing leveler, kept the wings level, even in the light chop.
I then rolled the plane 45 degrees left followed by a 45 degree roll to
the right. While the plane was in the right bank I released the stick
and the plane rolled back left, then a few degrees left of center, then
back to wings level.
Next was a 180 degree standard rate turn to the right. As I neared the
end of the maneuver, I released the stick with the plane still banked to
the right; the plane rolled a few degrees past center then settled back
into wings level.
This is getting interesting! Next came a 45 degree bank to the left for
90 degrees of yaw followed by a similar turn back to the right. While
the plane was in the 45 degree right bank, I released the stick, the
plane recovered, but the brutality was beginning to take its toll on the
solid-state gyro. This time the wings stayed tilted about five degrees
to the left and the plane began a very slow, one degree/sec yaw to the left.
I banked the plane a few more times and the gyro finally began to get a
little "drunk"; it would no longer return absolutely to wings level and
the plane was now doing very shallow turns instead of flying straight. I
could have used the trim switch to straighten out the flight path if
desired, but that was not the point of this test.
However, at this point, the EZ-Pilot had been flying the plane for over
twelve minutes and had endured many abrupt maneuvers; even though the
system could no longer fly the plane straight without retrimming, it
still had no difficulty keeping the plane upright. Maximum "lean" angles
I saw even with the gyro saturated was less than ten degrees.
It could be that if the test had continued for an extended period of
time with more maneuvers, the system would have finally lost its sense
of balance. But I was very impressed at how long the EZ-Pilot can keep
the plane upright even though it has no reference to gravity or heading.
If a momentary glitch occurred in the EZ-Pilot GPS data stream, the
pilot would never even notice it. And if GPS goes down for an extended
period of time, the EZ-Pilot gyro will give the pilot plenty of time to
get his hands out of his pockets, the coffee mug back in the cupholder,
the CD out of the player, so he can reset the trim and continue the
flight, all without causing any alarm or stress.
I continue to be impressed at the solidity of this system.
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longeron & skin overhang at aft bulkhead |
Hi Chris,
Leave the skin wherever it ended up until you mount the vertical
stabilizer. I made the mistake of trimming it before I mounted the VS,
though I did not trim it back to the bulkhead. I will have to add on
some sheet or fiberglass to fix the cosmetic appearance. You will be
able to decide how far to trim it after you mount the VS.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
Chris & Kellie Hand wrote:
>
>
> In building the fuselage (RV-6A), I left the skin and main longeron extended
> past the tail F-612 bulkhead, planning to trim as needed when I fit the vert
> & horiz stabs. Now that the fuselage is out of the jig and sitting on
> sawhorses, I see that I cannot get the vertical stab flush with the aft
> bulkhead until after trimming the main longerons back.
>
> My question is, should I trim everything (skins too) right up flush with
> that last bulkhead, or should there be some skin extending back a little
> past the F-612? Any close up photos of the attached tail section on any of
> your web sites?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, #23559
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
>
> search of John Stark's website turned up nothing on this product.
Best to send him an email or phone him. The website was just for contact
info...
That price is current, he consistently offers us some of the best pricing,
you can do a search of the archives and find lots of happy customers.
I purchased my 195 years ago from:
Southeast Aerospace, Inc.
1399 General Aviation Drive
Melbourne Intl. Airport
Melbourne, FL 32935
Phone: 321-255-9877
Fax: 321-255-9608
Email: jessica(at)seaerospace.com
www.seaerospace.com
At the time they had the best price I could find and were a pleasure to deal
with. They also have the 196 for $850, in stock...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> This was posted anonymously on the Blue Mountain Avionics website today.
> There is also a lengthy discussion of the subject by Greg Richter of Blue
> Mountain on their website today. Have a look at bluemountainavionics.com if
> you want a more detailed explanation of how it works by the man who
> developed it.
>
> Terry
>
>
> Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 3:10 pm:
>
> ----
> The BMA AHRS works with or without GPS in the latest configuration. There is
> disinformation being spread by Grand Rapids Instruments that implies the BMA
> AHRS requires GPS. The BMA AHRS solutuion is a rigorously developed Kalman
> Filter that performs optimal estimation with or without GPS aiding. It is
> much like an INS/GPS. The INS will work without the GPS, it just works
> better with GPS for it's fundamental mission. The GRI propaganda is
> attempting to bring merit to an inferior solution. It really does take far
> more work to do the GPS integration and then to constantly operate in a
> degraded mode. A GPS aided AHRS will knock the socks off a non-aided AHRS in
> performance -- military or commercial.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long)
>
>
> But the remote possibility of total loss of GPS data for an extended
> period of time is why I don't favor EFIS's that include GPS in the AHRS
> solution (Blue Mountain?). It would be preferable to only lose full
> functionality of the wing leveler to having flight instruments get
> flakey because they can't hear the satellites.
>
> Sam Buchanan
"Anonymous", while giving Terry an involved answer.......did not answer
his question! He evaded it! :-)
Terry's query:
"How do the solid state gyro's that you use compare to mechanical gyros
in terms of stability over time, without the GPS input.?"
remains unanswered by "Anonymous".
I am not impressed by "anonymous" posters.......
I debated whether or not to respond to this post, but since it was my
original post that Terry reposted to the BMA forum, I think I am
entitled to a response.
Sounds like a little, ah, *aggressive marketing* is being aimed at some
other EFIS companies by the BMA gang. ;-)
Sam Buchanan
===================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael J. Robbins" <michael.j.robbins(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Wanted: Terra Radios |
A friend of mine is looking for a TN200D and TX760D. Please respond off
line if you know of one or both for sale.
Thanks.
Mike Robbins
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
Come on Sam, tell the whole story. If you read that much, you must have
seen the lengthy discussion posted today and signed by Greg. Look. I know
you bought early and got stung by more promises than fact on an EFIS/lite,
but I don't understand the constant sniping at them that seems to always
turn out to be less than the full story, and that's being generous.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
Subject: RV-List: AHRS vs mechanical gyros
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> This was posted anonymously on the Blue Mountain Avionics website today.
> There is also a lengthy discussion of the subject by Greg Richter of Blue
> Mountain on their website today. Have a look at bluemountainavionics.com
if
> you want a more detailed explanation of how it works by the man who
> developed it.
>
> Terry
>
>
> Posted on Tuesday, November 11, 2003 - 3:10 pm:
>
> ----
> The BMA AHRS works with or without GPS in the latest configuration. There
is
> disinformation being spread by Grand Rapids Instruments that implies the
BMA
> AHRS requires GPS. The BMA AHRS solutuion is a rigorously developed Kalman
> Filter that performs optimal estimation with or without GPS aiding. It is
> much like an INS/GPS. The INS will work without the GPS, it just works
> better with GPS for it's fundamental mission. The GRI propaganda is
> attempting to bring merit to an inferior solution. It really does take far
> more work to do the GPS integration and then to constantly operate in a
> degraded mode. A GPS aided AHRS will knock the socks off a non-aided AHRS
in
> performance -- military or commercial.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot report(long)
>
>
> But the remote possibility of total loss of GPS data for an extended
> period of time is why I don't favor EFIS's that include GPS in the AHRS
> solution (Blue Mountain?). It would be preferable to only lose full
> functionality of the wing leveler to having flight instruments get
> flakey because they can't hear the satellites.
>
> Sam Buchanan
"Anonymous", while giving Terry an involved answer.......did not answer
his question! He evaded it! :-)
Terry's query:
"How do the solid state gyro's that you use compare to mechanical gyros
in terms of stability over time, without the GPS input.?"
remains unanswered by "Anonymous".
I am not impressed by "anonymous" posters.......
I debated whether or not to respond to this post, but since it was my
original post that Terry reposted to the BMA forum, I think I am
entitled to a response.
Sounds like a little, ah, *aggressive marketing* is being aimed at some
other EFIS companies by the BMA gang. ;-)
Sam Buchanan
===================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | clinched rivets? |
Hi everyone,
I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
offset.
Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
Thanks,
Paul
PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil on the
belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this large black
rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know what to
do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB upper plate
just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of fitting
there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole problem just
goes away-
Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is there that
much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers cranked
out in the last forty years?
Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne Reese" <waynereese(at)qwest.net> |
Rick at www.electronictechnologies.net put a deal together for the
experimental avionics group. $840 delivered I got one and two other
friends I know.
Wayne
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Art Glaser
Subject: Re: RV-List: GPSMAP196 Price
Avionics West $879
Dennis Persyk wrote:
>
>Anyone have any suggestions on where to purchase a Garmin GPSMAP196?
>Everyone seems to list them for $999. Im not looking for any added
>accessories, just the standard package at the lowest price. Reply off
list
>if youd like.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dennis Persyk 6A N600DP sold
>
>
>
>
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
Oh, and don't use a PVC valve on an aircraft engine that runs at a
fairly constant rpm--you won't like the result.
On Wednesday, November 12, 2003, at 02:04 AM, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
> on the
> belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
> large black
> rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
> what to
> do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
> upper plate
> just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
> fitting
> there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
> problem just
> goes away-
>
> Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
> there that
> much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
> cranked
> out in the last forty years?
>
> Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
> Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longeron & skin overhang at aft bulkhead |
Hi Chris-
I've never built an airplane before, but here's what I came up with- THOU
SHALT NOT TRIM/CUT/RIVET/PAINT ANYTHING UNTIL YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT GO
FURTHER!!!! I left all the skin and angle hangin' in the breeze until fitting
the VS
and rudder- definitely the w[Unable to display image][Unable to display image]ay
to go- I have installed/removed the VS and rudder
several times and they fit quite nicely!!........See attached-(or mangled-
still tryin' to figger out aol....!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A #25539, N51PW Haulin' it to the airport soon!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Douglas A. Fischer" <dfischer(at)iserv.net> |
"RV-9 Yahoo List" ,
"RV-9 Matronics List"
| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to use two
fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip error). My question
is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement to have yet
a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm thinking (at least
it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are the odds of both fuselage
ports freezing or clogging at the same time since if one did, the other
would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone? I'm wondering if the price
delta of $200 between with and without static in the pitot is worth it or if
in the very rare instance I can just break the VSI glass. Any input would be
greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Doug Fischer
90706
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
I have had my static ports clog twice in heavy rain(you know the bucket
type) in my 6A. ARGH! Not fun. I think the rain puts a little rain drop
just inside the port, both sides, and those drops just sit there and
mess with your static system. It's a terrible thing to have happen in a
plane that loves to whiz bang through altitude. The VSI is an important
gage for me in the soup. Bad things happen when it starts sending you
through altitudes for the wrong reasons. It was one of my worst times in
hard IFR. Anyway, enough rant on that...
Answer:
I went into my box of R/C stuff and retrieved a fuel line bulkhead
fitting. Little plastic bugger. You can buy one from tower hobbies. Part
number LXG851
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXG851&P=7 .
I put this tiny bulkhead fitting in my panel, teed off static line
behind the panel. On the front side of the panel, where the bulkhead is
attached, I have a short piece of r/c fuel line, 1/4 inch long maybe
with a plug in it.
http://www2.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin/wti0001p?&I=LXG848&P=7 part number
lxg48.
When my static ports clog, I just pull the fuel line with the plug stuck
in it right off the panel and let the static vent to cabin. Simple
Install, quick emergency procedure, and very effective.
I spent nothing cause I had this stuff laying around, but you can do it
for less than 10$, and have enough stuff for 2 planes.
Oh and as a side note, when you pull this plug in flight, WHOAA, does
the static and altimeter go bazerko until it settles back down. Takes
maybe 10 seconds. The pressure difference between out and in is
substantial.
Also as another note: For those that don't know, Altrak Alt. hold
suppliments in pitch stability reference with static source. With altrak
alt hold engaged, I can pull the plug off, vent static to cabin, watch
the alt. and VSI go whacky, and the altrak holds steady. A tribute to
its realibility on its gryo as primary and static as a backup.
Mike Stewart
Hope this was helpful
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Douglas A.
Fischer
Subject: RV-List: Alternate static sources
A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and
to use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip
error). My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this
arrangement to have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is
the way I'm thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice
over). What are the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at
the same time since if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has
it happened to anyone? I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between
with and without static in the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare
instance I can just break the VSI glass. Any input would be greatly
appreciated! Thanks!
Doug Fischer
90706
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil on the
>belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this large black
>rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know what to
>do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB upper plate
>just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of fitting
>there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole problem just
>goes away-
>
No, the problem doesn't go away. All you've done is transferred the
problem elsewhere. First, the problem is with a tired engine, or one
that has some seal, valve guide, or ring problem. There is the problem,
and fixing the problem is the only sure and safe way. Continued
operation only leads to higher oil consumption. Masked by oil
separators, recirculators (like you mentioned) you feel 'good' about
it. BUT, the solution above will only result in oil in the cowl since
the oil will slowly drain down into the airbox (I'm new to RVs and don't
know what a FAB really is) after shutdown. Well, that solution would
work if you left the engine running all the time!!!
But, what happens to the oil you've sucked up into the carb? Well, it's
going to carbon up the piston and valve tops and sometime down the road
(airway: 8-) ) you'll suffer engine run-on during shutdown.
Everything here is speculation, of course, because I don't know anyone
that's performed this particular mod to their airplanes .... or at least
admitted that they had tried it.
Linn
>Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is there that
>much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers cranked
>out in the last forty years?
>
>Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
>Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
Check out the C-MAP Aviation EKB-III.
I had a Garmin 196 last year that was stolen. I liked the Garmin but
the display was really to small for me to use when flying. At my desk,
in the car, at the sales counter and at the dining table after supper,
the 196 was ok......When flying it was unusable because of the display
size and location where I had to mount it. Everyone has different
requirements, physical eye site limitations and all that. The Garmin has
one of the best user interfaces (button logic) out there....(and the
EKP-III also has very easy user interfaces). A new, Mono color EKP-III
with new Jepp card is 599$ from the factory-thats a 400 dollar saving
over the mono 196. The color EKP in 1550$. RAM-MOUNT company has
hundreds of RAM Mount combos and I mounted mine on the right cabin rail
so I can swing it up and out of the way when I exit the RV-4.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is doing its job - & in
so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I eventually bought a #41
drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next size smaller than #40,
obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when dimple, hole is slightly
enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
> Hi everyone,
> I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
>
> The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> offset.
>
> Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to
use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip error).
My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement to
have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm
thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are
the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at the same time since
if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone?
I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between with and without static in
the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break the
VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
Doug Fischer
90706
I'm planning on putting a tee in the line in the cabin and installing an
accessible fuel drain valve that can be locked in the open position. SAF-AIR
pn. 1250 would fit the bill.
Stan Blanton
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
Hi all,
I was an attendee of Bob's seminar last weekend on wiring your aircraft, and I
just wanted to let those on the list know that if you haven't taken this seminar...sign
up ASAP. Bob is hands down the aviation wiring Guru. He imparts his
knowledge with a passion that only comes from someone who does what he does because
he loves doing it!
The cost is more than fair and you will save 3-10 times the $150 you spend by not
buying things you don't need, or having to 'start over' after you realize you
haven't done your wiring job correctly (ie: simply/easlily).
Ron Patterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
What is an EKP-III?
> From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 10:08:07 -0500
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: GPSMAP196 Price
>
>
> Check out the C-MAP Aviation EKB-III.
>
> I had a Garmin 196 last year that was stolen. I liked the Garmin but
> the display was really to small for me to use when flying. At my desk,
> in the car, at the sales counter and at the dining table after supper,
> the 196 was ok......When flying it was unusable because of the display
> size and location where I had to mount it. Everyone has different
> requirements, physical eye site limitations and all that. The Garmin has
> one of the best user interfaces (button logic) out there....(and the
> EKP-III also has very easy user interfaces). A new, Mono color EKP-III
> with new Jepp card is 599$ from the factory-thats a 400 dollar saving
> over the mono 196. The color EKP in 1550$. RAM-MOUNT company has
> hundreds of RAM Mount combos and I mounted mine on the right cabin rail
> so I can swing it up and out of the way when I exit the RV-4.
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Painting tip (simple and cleaver) |
In any gravity spray gun (the gun with the paint hopper on the top), a
old timmer offered up this tip. I was complaining about spraying the
underside of my wings with my gravity gun and using the bags (another
great invention escentially using the formula bottle bags for infants in
your gun to spray at odd angles and even upsidedown) He said to simply
use a 45 degree fitting in the bottom of the paint hopper where it
connects to the spray gun handle assembly. I sprayed the underside of
the wings with ease and the 45 degree elbo was easy to remove....cool
idea.
________________________________________________________________________________
It,s interesting to read all the comments on the 196 and AHRSs. I bought
the 196-but agree, the screen is too small. Thought I had a solution with the
Icarus microEFIS but need help from some of you computer gurus: Steve Silverman
at Icarus says that the Compaq Aero 8000 I have is too slow to carry the fast
updating that their product provides and that's why it can only be linked
into the iPaq 38xx or 39xx series; Can the 230MIPs processor of the iPaq really
be that much faster than the 133MIPs processor in the Aero laptop??? Is it
possible to install a faster processor? More generally, does anyone else have
the microEFIS +/- the Garmin196 tied into it? Geoff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPSMAP196 Price |
http://aviation.c-map.com/
Denis Walsh wrote:
>
>What is an EKP-III?
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Bruce Bell wrote:
>
>Hi All,
>After painting the tail on my RV4 I find the leading edges need more paint.
>What is the best way to touch them up with out building up a ridge and
>overspray on the other surfaces?
>
Well, the best thing is to mask off on a seam or adjacent color, but
since there's no seam ....... and maybe no other color ...... here's
what I do:
Take your touch-up spray gun and cut the paint until thin. Mask off the
leading edge about 6" back, and drape everything else with plastic ....
it's cheap. Cut down the pressure on the gun and shut off the fan
(paint fan, not electric fan :-D ) air until you get just a little paint
to spray. Spray the leading edges, and get real close .... but keep the
gun moving so you don't get runs. Use many real light coats, waiting 15
minutes between coats. If you have to, leave the area and hangar fly
with your neighbors or get a drink. Anything to keep from painting too
soon. Remember LIGHT coats!!!
> I am using Randolph Products, Acrylic
>Lacquer, Tennessee Red.
>
OOOH! Love that Tennessee Red!!! Painted my Pitts with it (Stits)!!!
Go to your auto parts place and ask for polishing compound for acrylic
lacquer. After the paint is thoroughly cured, use a buffer to polish
out the overspray. the closer you get to the leading edge, the more
polishing it will take, but with a little practice it will blend into
the old stuff.
When I paint the leading edges, I make sure to get a couple of extra
passes there. Don't forget the spinner (if you're painting it) nose and
wheel pants. They all take a beating in the rain and from gravel on the
ramp.
Linn
>Best regards,
>Bruce Bell
>Lubbock, Texas
>RV4 # 2888
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? |
>
>
> But, what happens to the oil you've sucked up into the carb? Well, it's
> going to carbon up the piston and valve tops and sometime down the road
> (airway: 8-) ) you'll suffer engine run-on during shutdown.
>
I respectfully disagree. An auto engine is shut off with the ignition
system, deposits, not just carbon, on the piston tops can cause engine
run-on. When you kill the engine with the mixture like in an airplane, your
engine will not run-on unless it is blowing buy and burning enough oil to
sustain combustion. If an engine had that much blow by it would have to be
REALLY sick! Plus, most of the "deposits" on the piston top come from the
ash (metallic additives) in the oil. Aircraft oil is ashless.
I don't buy the acid thing either, there is a very minimal amount of sulphur
in gasoline and that would not significantly increase chemical corrosion in
the engine.
PVC systems are naturally kind of dirty and maybe the risk a backfire
resulting in a fire in the air filter might not be worth the reward.
The main reason I can see why PCV (positive crankcase ventilation) would not
work in an airplane is we run at wide open throttle too much and there would
be no negative manifold pressure to positively ventilate the crankcase. At
those high power settings when the blow by was greatest, there would still
have to be a breather of some sort. and if your engine was tired, it would
still drip on the belly.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Bruce,
I had the same problem. Several years ago, on PBS there was
a program "Classic Car Shop" on restoring an old Mustang. In the episode of
repainting they showed a good trick on how to meld new paint to old. They
put a line of tape over the old tape and peeled up the tape where the new
spray would be applied. This essentially shadows the new paint so it doesn't
form a ridge if you spray obliquely to the raised tape. I tried it using 2"
wide green masking tape raising 1" of the edge where the fresh paint will be
sprayed at ~ 30 degree angle then applied the paint.--- Damned if I could
see any ridge!
Cheers!!------ Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
All,
Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we made in
our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring Bob
on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' workshops
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 08:21:45 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Hi all,
>
>I was an attendee of Bob's seminar last weekend on wiring your aircraft,
>and I just wanted to let those on the list know that if you haven't taken
>this seminar...sign up ASAP. Bob is hands down the aviation wiring Guru. He
>imparts his knowledge with a passion that only comes from someone who does
>what he does because he loves doing it!
>
>The cost is more than fair and you will save 3-10 times the $150 you spend
>by not buying things you don't need, or having to 'start over' after you
>realize you haven't done your wiring job correctly (ie: simply/easlily).
>
>Ron Patterson
>
>
Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus
scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Binzer" <robinzer(at)seidata.com> |
| Subject: | Wreck in Ventura Co,. CA |
If your trying to find the story and picture of the RV-6a that crashed in
Ventura Co. The link given is okay. Scroll down in the County News for Nov
8th. You will find the article and picture.
RDB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate static sources |
I guess it comes down to $$. How much is a VSI? Probably more than $200.
I'd opt for the static option in the pitot. Or, you can save the money now,
and then roll the dice. Personally, I would roll the dice. In a pinch, you
could break the glass, but it is not likely that you will ice over both
static ports unless you really plan on flying some hard IFR, in my opinion.
Don't want to start a debate on IFR flight, but I think too much redunancy
is overkill. We train for things to fail, so deal with what you have, and
maintain an adequate balance of how much redunancy you really need. Bob
Knuckolls book describes this in detail with his electrical system. Design
it right, build it right, and put in minimal backup, and you shouldn't have
Murphy come visit you.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternate static sources
>
>
> A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to
> use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip
error).
> My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement
to
> have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm
> thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are
> the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at the same time
since
> if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone?
> I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between with and without static
in
> the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break the
> VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
>
> Doug Fischer
> 90706
>
> I'm planning on putting a tee in the line in the cabin and installing an
> accessible fuel drain valve that can be locked in the open position.
SAF-AIR
> pn. 1250 would fit the bill.
>
>
> Stan Blanton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared2(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flying Question, need advise |
Everyone seems to have an opinion on this issue and so do I.
1. It is normal to be apprehensive about the first flight. Two years
after my first flight I still get butterflys thinking about it. If you are
not apprehensive about the first flight then you really should not make it.
2. I built my airplane and for 100% of it's flight hours, I have been the
PIC. This airplane of mine is an extension of me, I made it, it was my
sweat and tears that put it together. I was not going to let someone else
do the honors of the first flight.
3. I have found the RV6 much easier to land and takeoff than a Citabria,
if you need more TD training, find a Citabria. Or go to Arizona and have
Budd Davidson teach you how to land a Pitts, if you can handle a Pitts then
you will have no problem with an RV.
4. Regardless of who makes the first airplane flight, you must still make
your first flight. All of the previous poster's precautions still
apply. Just because Chuck Yeager flew it, that does not mean you can.
5. There comes a day when you just need to open the throttle and go for
it. Remember a little fear is good. If you can consistently wheel land a
Citabria without a bounce, then you can land an RV. After a 8 hour check
out with Mike Seger, It took me another 50 hours in the Citabria and just
before my first flight an additional 3 hours in a Luscombe before I felt
ready (all of this time was in the traffic pattern shooting touch and goes
and some fullstops). I had a little over 200 hours total PIC when I did my
first flight.
6. Astronauts are so good because, in my opinion, they are so over
trained. Get more training, then get some more, ( and I don't mean more
from Mike Seger), when you feel overtrained, then go for it. My first
flight was anticlimatic, sort of a real let down, nothing went wrong! That
is good.
7. In the end, only you can weigh the risks versus the rewards. Use good
judgement rather than emotion in making the decision. Either decision will
be forever.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
Dana, Michael, anyone else who is interested
Contrary to Sam's assurances, the statement that I quoted from Blue
Mountain's discussion list was not likely from Blue Mountain, but I can't be
sure. They have a very free wheeling discussion list that airs comments,
questions and complaints from customers and non-customers alike. Several
company employees participate but as far as I can tell, they do it under
their own names. Most of the posts seem to be about ideas for future
developments or resolving installation questions. Most of the complaints
have had to do with delivery schedules rather than performance of the
equipment. It would appear that many of their customers are enthusiastic
about what they have received, and especially about the constant upgrading
going on at Blue Mountain, based largely on customer suggestions. Their
discussion list is wide open to anyone. You don't have to subscribe or
identify yourself to either read or post messages.
I do have a vested interest here. I have put up a lot of money in a bet
that what they are delivering is worth the money. The EFIS/one I am
currently installing in my still under construction RV-8A has performed on
the ground exactly as predicted by Blue Mountain. It was delivered as
promised for the price they committed to over a year ago. It had been
upgraded significantly since my order was placed. I had the option of not
going along with one hardware addition that was recommended at an additional
cost. I chose to go along with it. My dealings with them have always been
handled to my satisfaction.
One thing I do want to emphasize here is that in this really fascinating
free-for-all new industry developing EFIS for experimental airplanes, there
seems to be a whole lot of half truths being thrown around. In the long run
we will all benefit as the laws of physics and the market sort it out. I am
very comfortable with where I have put my money, but as is obvious, I am
frustrated by the self-appointed authorities who seem motivated by something
other than a search for the truth. As for Sam's history with Blue Mountain,
it's all there on their discussion list for anyone to see. It certainly
appears to me that they have treated him with more fairness and generosity
than he has them.
As for "honorable business practices", I am unaware of anything other than
companies bashing each other's products or technology which I do find less
than honorable. I think any accusation of more than that needs to be backed
up by something or it becomes a close kin what it is claming another to be
guilty of. If you are holding Blue Mountain responsible for what an
anonymous person posted on their discussion list (and I quoted to this list)
and you are doing it because Sam said it was from them, then I think you are
making a mistake.
Just to be very clear here, I don't want to imply any criticism of Dynon or
GRT or any other manufacturer here. Even the accounts of bashing each
other's products are almost always 3rd hand. When you talk to the
principles involved, you will almost always find courtesy and respect for
their perceived competitors. I especially don't want to offend those who
have chosen Dynon. I know a little bit about Dynon. I think it's a great
company with a great product. I like the way they do business. I do not
see them and Blue Mountain as head to head competitors. Their products
overlap, but they are not the same, at least not yet. My BMA EFIS/one is a
virtual glass cockpit. It includes the AHRS, but it also includes the air
data (so does Dynon) plus a GPS based moving map display instantly
switchable from two VFR modes to IFR high altitude and IFR low altitude. It
has a real synthetic vision display, showing the GPS derived terrain on the
horizon of the attitude indicator if you select that mode. This terrain
shows in red if it is at or above your current elevation, as it does on the
VFR moving map display. It uses the GPS and air data information to compute
and display wind speed and direction. It has a large, readable H.S.I. which
can be digitally interfaced with an Apollo SL30 nav/com and some other
radios to set com frequencies, VOR, ILS, ILS back course, Localizer, Virtual
VOR (VOR derived from GPS data) and glide slope. It displays all the engine
gauges that you choose with the limits and ranges you set and alerts you to
over or under limit or defective readings even when you do not have the
engine gauges displayed. It has an optional 2 axis autopilot that will fly
the flight plan you program with a very logical on-screen waypoint selection
process. It will use your set climb and decent speeds, or vertical set climb
and decent rates.
But way back to what I saw as misinformation that started all this: The
AHRS does use GPS information to verify and correct the information it
presents, but to criticize it for that as compared to a mechanical gyro is
truly unfair. A mechanical gyro precesses and needs to be periodically set
level, manually. The AHRS constantly checks itself against GPS information
and provides it's own correction. In the event that is loses GPS contact for
whatever reason, it still performs like a mechanical gyro.
Time will tell who has the right idea and the right product here. If I have
misstated anything it is truly unintentional and I'm sure someone will
correct me. I have said way too much, but I hate to see what I perceive as a
good and honorable company with a truly outstanding product being bashed
unfairly.
Terry
RV-8A #80729 finishing
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Vans used to, in the old kits before prepunched holes, recommend all holes
be drilled with a #41 drill that were going to be dimpled. I haven't read
his instructions in the RV9; I just have been working from my old memory and
still do it that way. His logic was the same as yours- makes the hole a
little nicer after dimpling.
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
> Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is doing its job - &
in
> so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I eventually bought a #41
> drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next size smaller than #40,
> obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when dimple, hole is slightly
> enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> >
> > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > offset.
> >
> > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Paul
> >
> > PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
So Im sitting at my desk around 11:30 (PST) this morning thinking about
flying. And why wouldnt I my first flight was three days ago; my computer
background screen is a picture from my first flight; I have Vans calendar
with Jim Erskines RV-6/7 on the wall; I have the 2003 at-a-glance page
from last years calendar next to it with Dan Benuas RV-6A over that; I have
my daughters watercolor of an RV-6A right in front of me.
Today is a spectacular day in the Pacific Northwest. Cool, but not cold. I
look at the weather forecast for this weekend, rain and more rain. Grumble!
Grumble! I check the metar: calm winds, no ceiling, 10 miles of
visibility. I look outside and all I see is sun. The sirens song gets
louder and louder. Finally, I succumb.
A quick stop to get gas in the car and it is off to the airport. On the
road, while a bit hazy, I can still see mountains more than 50 miles away. I
know it will be clearer in the air. Forty-five minutes later, I am opening
the hangar. There she sits, MY AIRPLANE! Even without paint and main gear
pants & fairings, she is a very beautiful lady to me. I pull N276DM out and
start to pre-flight. A friend, Harley Beard, who is building a 6A just
happens to drop by and we chat while I finish the pre-flight. My engine
start procedure (without a priming system) is not completely figured out yet,
but soon the engine is singing its song.
Taxi, runup, announce, and then on the runway. Stick neutral, add power,
lift the nose just off the runway, hold it there, and then we are flying!
Climb up to 5000 (Arlington is about 140) to enhance my gliding range.
Level off and power back to 2400 rpm. Today is a break in the engine day.
Up here, I can see a huge hunk of the Puget Sound and freshly snowed on
mountains almost every which way I look! I fly north up to Skagit airport
circling it at 5000. I do some turns around the hills and check out a small
antenna farm. While always a little nervous, after all, its a new (rebuilt)
engine and airplane, I am content to float up here and look down on my
surroundings. I check out the Dynon EFIS-D10: attitude looks great,
airspeed within a couple of miles per hours compared to my ASI, altitude
within 20-30 feet. Even in the bright sunlight with sunglasses, I can easily
see the display. All too soon, I head back to Arlington. Going down hill to
pattern altitude, I see 180 mph on the airspeed. There is only one other
plane in the pattern so I easily enter the downwind. Downwind checks, now
abeam the numbers, power back, hold the nose up to bleed off airspeed. First
notch of manual flaps, turn base, second notch of flaps (Hmm, maybe I should
put electric flaps in this thing!), and then the turn to final. Stabilized
at 85, keep the number in the windshield like Mike Seager taught me. Close
to the ground, so level off. Much better today, one of my biggest problems
is leveling off too high above the runway. Now flare, more flare, more
flare, touchdown! Keep the nose off the ground until the plane refuses to
hold it up any longer. Cool, I could have made the first turnoff easily, but
I coast on by since I need gas which is farther down the runway anyway. Off
the runway and taxi to the pumps. Shutdown. A moment for reflection: this
collection of metal, wire, fiberglass, etc. really is an airplane. 12 years
and 2500 hours have resulted in me being able to fulfill my dream of flight,
a dream I have had ever since I can remember.
My first fill up: 29.14 gallons, $74.63. Yikes! Thats a bunch of money!
But is it? Lets see, 29 gallons are about 3-1/2 hours of flight. How much
does it cost to go to a college or professional sporting event? How about a
concert? Yes, it is expensive, but those 3-1/2 hours of flight will give me
more pleasure and satisfaction than a lot of other activities. Yes, I know
there are other costs involved, but Im satisfied with my choice of leisure
activity. Finally, its back to the hanger, clean the windscreen, and the
drive back to work. Guess what I was thinking about during those 45 minutes!
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM
PS I promise not to file a flight report for every flight, maybe every
second or third! Just kidding!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Stratman" <pauls(at)kc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Compare a Dynon to the Blue Mountain |
I was reading on the Blue mountain site how crappy the Dynon is. This
statement came from Greg right after he stated as "never having flown the
Dynon".
BROTHER!
Anyway, I kept reading Greg's post and saw this:
For grins, try this with one of the cheapies:
1. Fly a series of bank to back Chandelles and recover on the instrument.
Watch it closely -- a nasty trick is to re-erect the solution as soon as the
plane isn't accelerating. Makes a pretty demo, but a dangerous instrument.
2. Turn 360 degrees in a 2 degree bank, then 4 degrees, then 6 then 8 then
10 then 20, 30, 45, and finally into 60 degrees banked turn. Having done 9
orbits, recover on the instrument. This classic VFR into IMC spiral has a
known effect on this class of instrument and is worth seeing, if you intend
to use one.
Well GREG, guess what? I have done this with the Dynon and it passes the
test with flying colors. I have been flying with the Dynon now for 125 hrs
and simply can not believe how nice a piece of equipment this is for the $
1995.00 price tag. Way to go Dynon!
Paul Stratman
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Directions specify #40 and #30 for all match-drillng on the empennage
at least. Which makes me a bit hesitant to switch to #41...cracks from
expanding the hole are an obvious concern but seem unlikely to me...
>
> Vans used to, in the old kits before prepunched holes, recommend all holes
> be drilled with a #41 drill that were going to be dimpled. I haven't read
> his instructions in the RV9; I just have been working from my old memory and
> still do it that way. His logic was the same as yours- makes the hole a
> little nicer after dimpling.
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
> Quick build fuselage now in basement
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
> 1974 TR6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> >
> > Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is doing its job - &
> in
> > so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I eventually bought a #41
> > drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next size smaller than #40,
> > obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when dimple, hole is slightly
> > enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > > problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > > skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > > bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > > cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > > -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > > (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > > (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > > see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > > dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > > like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > > offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > > Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > > since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > > to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > > an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > > slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Alternate static sources |
>
>A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR
>and to use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out
>any slip error). My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need
>with this arrangement to have yet a third port for redundancy? A
>heated pitot is the way I'm thinking (at least it would be a source
>that wouldn't ice over). What are the odds of both fuselage ports
>freezing or clogging at the same time since if one did, the other
>would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone? I'm wondering
>if the price delta of $200 between with and without static in the
>pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break
>the VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
>
>Doug Fischer
There are many different ways to lose the static system. It may be
possible to have some moisture get in the system, and then freeze in
a low spot in the tubing. Or the mud daubers could get you - if they
are around and in the mood, they could easily get both static ports.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
dmedema(at)att.net wrote:
>
>So Im sitting at my desk around 11:30 (PST) this morning thinking about
>flying. And why wouldnt I my first flight was three days ago; my computer
>background screen is a picture from my first flight; I have Vans calendar
>with Jim Erskines RV-6/7 on the wall; I have the 2003 at-a-glance page
>from last years calendar next to it with Dan Benuas RV-6A over that; I have
>my daughters watercolor of an RV-6A right in front of me.
>
>Today is a spectacular day in the Pacific Northwest. Cool, but not cold. I
>look at the weather forecast for this weekend, rain and more rain. Grumble!
>Grumble! I check the metar: calm winds, no ceiling, 10 miles of
>visibility. I look outside and all I see is sun. The sirens song gets
>louder and louder. Finally, I succumb.
>
>A quick stop to get gas in the car and it is off to the airport. On the
>road, while a bit hazy, I can still see mountains more than 50 miles away. I
>know it will be clearer in the air. Forty-five minutes later, I am opening
>the hangar. There she sits, MY AIRPLANE! Even without paint and main gear
>pants & fairings, she is a very beautiful lady to me. I pull N276DM out and
>start to pre-flight. A friend, Harley Beard, who is building a 6A just
>happens to drop by and we chat while I finish the pre-flight. My engine
>start procedure (without a priming system) is not completely figured out yet,
>but soon the engine is singing its song.
>
>Taxi, runup, announce, and then on the runway. Stick neutral, add power,
>lift the nose just off the runway, hold it there, and then we are flying!
>Climb up to 5000 (Arlington is about 140) to enhance my gliding range.
>Level off and power back to 2400 rpm. Today is a break in the engine day.
>Up here, I can see a huge hunk of the Puget Sound and freshly snowed on
>mountains almost every which way I look! I fly north up to Skagit airport
>circling it at 5000. I do some turns around the hills and check out a small
>antenna farm. While always a little nervous, after all, its a new (rebuilt)
>engine and airplane, I am content to float up here and look down on my
>surroundings. I check out the Dynon EFIS-D10: attitude looks great,
>airspeed within a couple of miles per hours compared to my ASI, altitude
>within 20-30 feet. Even in the bright sunlight with sunglasses, I can easily
>see the display. All too soon, I head back to Arlington. Going down hill to
>pattern altitude, I see 180 mph on the airspeed. There is only one other
>plane in the pattern so I easily enter the downwind. Downwind checks, now
>abeam the numbers, power back, hold the nose up to bleed off airspeed. First
>notch of manual flaps, turn base, second notch of flaps (Hmm, maybe I should
>put electric flaps in this thing!), and then the turn to final. Stabilized
>at 85, keep the number in the windshield like Mike Seager taught me. Close
>to the ground, so level off. Much better today, one of my biggest problems
>is leveling off too high above the runway. Now flare, more flare, more
>flare, touchdown! Keep the nose off the ground until the plane refuses to
>hold it up any longer. Cool, I could have made the first turnoff easily, but
>I coast on by since I need gas which is farther down the runway anyway. Off
>the runway and taxi to the pumps. Shutdown. A moment for reflection: this
>collection of metal, wire, fiberglass, etc. really is an airplane. 12 years
>and 2500 hours have resulted in me being able to fulfill my dream of flight,
>a dream I have had ever since I can remember.
>
>My first fill up: 29.14 gallons, $74.63. Yikes! Thats a bunch of money!
>But is it? Lets see, 29 gallons are about 3-1/2 hours of flight. How much
>does it cost to go to a college or professional sporting event? How about a
>concert? Yes, it is expensive, but those 3-1/2 hours of flight will give me
>more pleasure and satisfaction than a lot of other activities. Yes, I know
>there are other costs involved, but Im satisfied with my choice of leisure
>activity. Finally, its back to the hanger, clean the windscreen, and the
>drive back to work. Guess what I was thinking about during those 45 minutes!
>
>Doug Medema
>RV-6A N276DM
>
>PS I promise not to file a flight report for every flight, maybe every
>second or third! Just kidding!
>
Great post! And congratulations! I read it and by gosh, I was there!
Whew, 12 years! I am so blessed .... There's a couple of guys working
on a Wheeler Express .... 13 years .... they'll be flying by 14 ......
but my Pitts took me 3 years. Lots of all-nighters on that one. I'm
hoping the -10 will go together in 2 years. I have a friend that built
his -6 in 19 months and he had to drill all the holes!!! Don'tcha just
love incurable optimists???
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Young Eagles |
The number was only part of the goal. High winds, bouncy weather caused our
chapter to cancel two of of YE days in the last year. YE flights are to be
enjoyable not white knucklers for the kids. We're trying to draw them into
the fold not have them run screaming from the airport never to return. Do
Not Archive KABONG 8*)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Sears" <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Young Eagles
> > Offical results on EAA's Young Eagles web site for today show 999,695 YE
> > flights so far.
> When I flew to a recent YE day for our chapter and
> realized the winds were too strong for what I felt was safe for my
> passengers, my airplane, and me, I returned to my home base and drove back
> to their airport. One of the other pilots who chose to take kids up got
> onto me pretty strongly because I wouldn't do it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | reluctant reply to: AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> Dana, Michael, anyone else who is interested
>
> Contrary to Sam's assurances, the statement that I quoted from Blue
> Mountain's discussion list was not likely from Blue Mountain, but I can't be
> sure.
Good grief.......I sure wish I didn't have to stink up the list with
another post to this thread but my integrity and honesty has been
challenged. Please delete NOW if you don't want to read this response.
I did not make assurances that the "anonymous" post came from Blue Mtn.
Avionics. My statement about BMA's "aggressive marketing" was in
response to the other posts on the BMA forum that day, posts that Terry
didn't realize I had read. BMA's position on the Dynon has already been
challenged by at least one other poster in this thread on this list. My
dog is not in this hunt; I have committed to the Dynon so at this point
it doesn't matter to me which is the superior system. I did find Greg
Richter's assessment of the Dynon to be interesting when he stated
yesterday:
" I figure since the Dynon isn't sold as a flight instrument no one
would buy it except for panel dressing."
Even though I think this is a foolish thing for a manufacturer to say
about another manufacturer from a public relations standpoint, I
certainly defend Greg's right to make such a statement.
but as is obvious, I am
> frustrated by the self-appointed authorities who seem motivated by something
> other than a search for the truth. As for Sam's history with Blue Mountain,
> it's all there on their discussion list for anyone to see. It certainly
> appears to me that they have treated him with more fairness and generosity
> than he has them.
With as much beta testing as I have done for various RV-related efforts,
and with a huge volume of posts to this list and others over the past
five years, and after laying bare the construction of my RV-6 to the
critique of thousands of readers on my web site, my credibility as one
who is interested in finding the "truth" is not in doubt.
I am confident that since Terry was referring to someone other than me
when he referenced "self-appointed authorities", I will leave it to
those "authorities" to defend themselves.
As for the detailing of my history with BMA.......Terry, the posts on
the BMA forum don't tell half the story! I have been very careful to be
fair and honest with those posts and the posts I have made on this list.
Here is an excerpt from the latest message to me from Greg Richter
regarding what I had written about my efforts to fly an EFIS/lite:
" Sam, I've read your stuff and haven't gotten on your case about it
since it's factual. I agree we have a cordial relationship and that we
never did get your Lite to go. It was one of the first ones we made, and
I think we had a magnetics issue either in the hardware or way we hung
the thing in the plane, although I'm not sure since I never flew it. At
that time we were playing with a magnetic slaving technique that was
still in it's infancy -- it never worked out for the Lite, although we
do use a variation of it in the EFIS/One for another purpose. Short
version is you said "Don't Work" and I agree, it didn't work for you
when you tried it."
Terry, does that sound like it came from someone who thought I had been
unfair and dishonest with his company? Since that message I have
written very little about the BMA products, and the post of a couple
days ago that seemed to raise your ire was not a dig at BMA, but simply
an illustration in the discussion of solid-state gyro performance in the
absence of GPS data.
I sincerely hope this will put this issue to bed once and for all. These
are exciting times in our world of experimental aviation, and we will
all benefit from the revolutionary work being done in the avionics
community. I wish the best to all the players involved.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Hi Paul,
The results you describe could also be caused simply by using rivets that
are too long for the application.
Jim in Kelowna
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
>
> Hi everyone,
> I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> (which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
>
> The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> offset.
>
> Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
>
> Thanks,
> Paul
>
> PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings |
>After seeing much discussion here over the last four years about oil
> on the
> belly, oil separators etc., I'm sitting here face-to-face with this
> large black
> rubber hose attached to my crankcase breather and still do not know
> what to
> do with it----- when it occurred to me to poke a hole in the FAB
> upper plate
> just forward of the carb, (inside the filter) install some kind of
> fitting
> there or even an automotive PVC valve from Autozone, and the whole
> problem just
> goes away-
>
> Is there any compelling reason NOT to do this on a Lycoming, or is
> there that
> much difference between these beasts and all of the automotive movers
> cranked
> out in the last forty years?
>
> Re-inventing the wheel at the PossumWorks in TN?
> Mark -6A, tying up loose ends
Hello,
Mark's slimybellyosis post certainly brought an interesting series of
responses.
I am not an engineer and only have the following to offer.
Like Mark, I to contemplated some form of application of an automotive PCV
valve.
Some general history:
Before PVC, (i.e.) Positive Crankcase Ventilation, combustion engine
crankcases were Passively Ventilated. The blow-by and all it's accompanying
gunk was dumped to the open atmosphere. A simple baffle oil separator and
pipe served to vent the crankcase. For a partially active system often the
outlet end of the pipe was deliberately positioned to take advantage of
airflow to assist in drawing the nastiness out. Engines that suffered
blockage of the venting system or loss of the pipe faced from somewhat to
seriously shortened life cycles due to pressure buildup in the crankcase.
When the pollution that resulted from the "PV" system became generally
recognized as a bad thing the PCV was introduced.
The induction system (carburetor or fuel injection) was recalibrated to
allow a variable flow limiting device with a preset maximum rate to
continuously sample (leak) the crankcase gases into the intake manifold. The
PCV unit was mechanically calibrated to flow a maximum amount with margins
for normal wear that matched the cubic inch displacement of the engine.
Commonly the valve was plugged into a rocker valve or at some point higher
up gravity wise on the engine to aid in oil separation. Again a simple
baffle separator included at this point, was part of the system.
The flow of offending gases were then brought to a fitting on the intake
manifold. Crankcase blow-by gas flow was then regulated by intake manifold
vacuum (automotive speak) or manifold air pressure (aircraft speak).
In the case of low or idle throttle position (lowest manifold vacuum
pressure) the valve's mechanical internal maximum flow calibration came into
play. In the case of full throttle position the air pressure in the
induction manifold is equalized with the ambient outside air. In this case
any extra blow-by gases will in effect be above ambient air pressure and
therefore flow to air flow path into the induction system.
Through re-thinking pollution considerations and some slight engine design
changes internal combustion engines became one more step complicated,
environmentally acceptable and able to utilize a small portion of previously
wasted gases. Weather or not the "previously wasted gases" being introduced
into the intake manifold provide benefit out weighed by mechanical negatives
or not has been argued ever since. The PCV has however become standard
procedure
Failure modes: Along with the added complexity comes our friend Murphy. Few
people driving cars have had knowledge of failures of their PCV system. Most
those that do encounter PCV system failures just think their engine was old
and died of natural causes, hand over the keys to The mechanic, the wrecking
yard, or what have you? When engine wear and old age conspire to overload
the PCV calibration margins the only recourse is to accept the inevitable
and spend some money.
The PCV system is quite robust and seldom fails. When it does it is most
often the valve itself that gets overloaded with crud. Hoses weathering or
blockages in them and their fitting etc. are also culprits
I looked into the possibility of installing a PCV on my O-360. I soon
realized that I was not prepared to re-calibrate the induction system. Also
as the majority of the induction system is housed in the (oil pan) crankcase
area it would be very difficult locate a good location for the PVC gases to
enter the induction system. A hole drilled at the carburetor base is not for
me and I don't care to abide the added failure modes that would be required.
Mark,
I doubt that installing the breather hose to the FAB will work as you
intend, In flight this box is actually under varying degrees of positive air
pressure related to airspeed, not vacuum. What you propose could in fact
pressurize the crankcase.
I am not suggesting that it can not be done
The above is not guaranteed to be 100% accurate. I would appreciate any and
all corrections and additional information.
I hope it is of some use to the list,
Jim in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | clinched rivets? |
I don't remember seeing reference to #41 on my RV-8 plans. Where?
I've folded a few rivets during the past 5.5 years, but not because I'm
using #30 or #40 drills. My advice to avoid that is to keep everything
either parallel or perpendicular to each other -- squeezer head, rivet,
material, etc. Good results guaranteed or your money back!
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Curt Hoffman [mailto:choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 6:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
>
> Vans used to, in the old kits before prepunched holes,
> recommend all holes be drilled with a #41 drill that were
> going to be dimpled. I haven't read his instructions in the
> RV9; I just have been working from my old memory and still do
> it that way. His logic was the same as yours- makes the hole
> a little nicer after dimpling.
>
> Curt Hoffman
> RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
> Quick build fuselage now in basement
> Piper Cherokee N5320W
> 1974 TR6
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
>
> >
> > Yes, it is normal, no, it is not the dimple die - it is
> doing its job
> > - &
> in
> > so doing slightly enlarges the hole. Therefore, I
> eventually bought a
> > #41 drill to use on holes that were to be dimpled (next
> size smaller
> > than #40, obviously). Tight fit before dimple, but when
> dimple, hole
> > is slightly enlarged and rivet fits the way it should.
> >
> > David
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough
> I had more
> > > problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A
> few of the
> > > skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough
> to reveal
> > > bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > > cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by
> just a hair
> > > -- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and
> > > prodding. (which is also a mystery...it all fit together
> fine when
> > > drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > > (though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty
> dimple you will
> > > see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure
> the outer
> > > dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally
> "clinched", like
> > > a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but
> slightly
> > > offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > > Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > > since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they
> > > tend to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an
> oops rivet
> > > leaves an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't
> clinch any
> > > more.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a
> hole that's
> > > slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | reluctant reply to: AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
OK, Sam. I certainly agree with this part.
Terry
I sincerely hope this will put this issue to bed once and for all. These
are exciting times in our world of experimental aviation, and we will
all benefit from the revolutionary work being done in the avionics
community. I wish the best to all the players involved.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
Charles Rowbotham wrote:
>
>All,
>
>Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we made in
>our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
>
>For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring Bob
>on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
>
>Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
>RV-8A
>
>
>
In the North East, could that be narrowed down just a bit more?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Paul,
Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are worse
than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming you
are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an 18"
handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles together.
It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the right
pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets worse
with 1/8" rivets.
The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to keep
that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more fun
dimpling, too!
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A Fuselage
>From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
>
>
>Hi everyone,
> I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
>problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
>skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
>bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
>cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
>-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
>(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
>
> The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
>(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
>see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
>dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
>like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
>offset.
>
> Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
>Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
>since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
>to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
>an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul
>
>PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
>slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
>
>
MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
http://shopping.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: MY FOURTH FLIGHT (quite long) |
Linn;
They only get better. After some time you will find yourself doing most of the
movements in the cockpit without thinking and able to guess your airspeed within
5 knots without looking inside. You'll also be able to fly final at 70....or
less.
Don't be afraid to share flying stories, it's a nice break from the riveting,
avionics, or other misc. BS discussions. Seems once builders start flying none
of them want to talk about what they spent so long preparing for. I for one
would enjoy more threads discussing aerobatics, dogfighting, shooting down unsuspecting
172's (or Navy T-34C's) landing on a short grass strips or whatever.
Remember the goal, build and FLY a cool personal airplane. Now you are flying my
friend...Congrats!
RR
RV-4, 1100 hours
Still enjoy every flight, preferrably upside down...
linn walters wrote:
dmedema(at)att.net wrote:
>
>So Im sitting at my desk around 11:30 (PST) this morning thinking about
>flying. And why wouldnt I my first flight was three days ago; my computer
>background screen is a picture from my first flight; I have Vans calendar
>with Jim Erskines RV-6/7 on the wall; I have the 2003 at-a-glance page
>from last years calendar next to it with Dan Benuas RV-6A over that; I have
>my daughters watercolor of an RV-6A right in front of me.
>
>Today is a spectacular day in the Pacific Northwest. Cool, but not cold. I
>look at the weather forecast for this weekend, rain and more rain. Grumble!
>Grumble! I check the metar: calm winds, no ceiling, 10 miles of
>visibility. I look outside and all I see is sun. The sirens song gets
>louder and louder. Finally, I succumb.
>
>A quick stop to get gas in the car and it is off to the airport. On the
>road, while a bit hazy, I can still see mountains more than 50 miles away. I
>know it will be clearer in the air. Forty-five minutes later, I am opening
>the hangar. There she sits, MY AIRPLANE! Even without paint and main gear
>pants & fairings, she is a very beautiful lady to me. I pull N276DM out and
>start to pre-flight. A friend, Harley Beard, who is building a 6A just
>happens to drop by and we chat while I finish the pre-flight. My engine
>start procedure (without a priming system) is not completely figured out yet,
>but soon the engine is singing its song.
>
>Taxi, runup, announce, and then on the runway. Stick neutral, add power,
>lift the nose just off the runway, hold it there, and then we are flying!
>Climb up to 5000 (Arlington is about 140) to enhance my gliding range.
>Level off and power back to 2400 rpm. Today is a break in the engine day.
>Up here, I can see a huge hunk of the Puget Sound and freshly snowed on
>mountains almost every which way I look! I fly north up to Skagit airport
>circling it at 5000. I do some turns around the hills and check out a small
>antenna farm. While always a little nervous, after all, its a new (rebuilt)
>engine and airplane, I am content to float up here and look down on my
>surroundings. I check out the Dynon EFIS-D10: attitude looks great,
>airspeed within a couple of miles per hours compared to my ASI, altitude
>within 20-30 feet. Even in the bright sunlight with sunglasses, I can easily
>see the display. All too soon, I head back to Arlington. Going down hill to
>pattern altitude, I see 180 mph on the airspeed. There is only one other
>plane in the pattern so I easily enter the downwind. Downwind checks, now
>abeam the numbers, power back, hold the nose up to bleed off airspeed. First
>notch of manual flaps, turn base, second notch of flaps (Hmm, maybe I should
>put electric flaps in this thing!), and then the turn to final. Stabilized
>at 85, keep the number in the windshield like Mike Seager taught me. Close
>to the ground, so level off. Much better today, one of my biggest problems
>is leveling off too high above the runway. Now flare, more flare, more
>flare, touchdown! Keep the nose off the ground until the plane refuses to
>hold it up any longer. Cool, I could have made the first turnoff easily, but
>I coast on by since I need gas which is farther down the runway anyway. Off
>the runway and taxi to the pumps. Shutdown. A moment for reflection: this
>collection of metal, wire, fiberglass, etc. really is an airplane. 12 years
>and 2500 hours have resulted in me being able to fulfill my dream of flight,
>a dream I have had ever since I can remember.
>
>My first fill up: 29.14 gallons, $74.63. Yikes! Thats a bunch of money!
>But is it? Lets see, 29 gallons are about 3-1/2 hours of flight. How much
>does it cost to go to a college or professional sporting event? How about a
>concert? Yes, it is expensive, but those 3-1/2 hours of flight will give me
>more pleasure and satisfaction than a lot of other activities. Yes, I know
>there are other costs involved, but Im satisfied with my choice of leisure
>activity. Finally, its back to the hanger, clean the windscreen, and the
>drive back to work. Guess what I was thinking about during those 45 minutes!
>
>Doug Medema
>RV-6A N276DM
>
>PS I promise not to file a flight report for every flight, maybe every
>second or third! Just kidding!
>
Great post! And congratulations! I read it and by gosh, I was there!
Whew, 12 years! I am so blessed .... There's a couple of guys working
on a Wheeler Express .... 13 years .... they'll be flying by 14 ......
but my Pitts took me 3 years. Lots of all-nighters on that one. I'm
hoping the -10 will go together in 2 years. I have a friend that built
his -6 in 19 months and he had to drill all the holes!!! Don'tcha just
love incurable optimists???
Linn
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
make the UPS line. Damn!
I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
ever get to use it.
Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
of square.
The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
Paul
>
> Paul,
>
> Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are worse
> than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming you
> are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an 18"
> handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles together.
> It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the right
> pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets worse
> with 1/8" rivets.
>
> The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to keep
> that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
>
> Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more fun
> dimpling, too!
>
> Jim Bower
> St. Louis, MO
> RV-6A Fuselage
>
>
> >From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> >
> >
> >Hi everyone,
> > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> >
> > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> >offset.
> >
> > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Paul
> >
> >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> >
> >
>
> MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> http://shopping.msn.com
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
In response to an email I sent to ***GARMIN AT*** regarding the future of
CNX80/MX20/SL70(R)/SL15/SL30 (maybe), I got the following response from
***GARMIN-AT*** ...
===========================================================================
===========
James,
I expect to see all three systems in question supported for the forseeable
future. The CNX80 is currently the only WAAS GPS on the market that is
approved under TSO-C146a. It also has a number of other unique features
that will secure its place in the avionics marketplace. It has flight
planning capabilities that allow you to insert a victor or jet airway into a
flight plan with a single entry. It has an infrared dataport that will
allow users to do IFR flight planning with greater ease than is now
possible. Its display, although smaller than the 530, is equal in
resolution. There are other features I could list as well. In the case of
the 430 and 530, the success of those products speaks for itself, and they
will only get better with time.
The GX products will and have been discontinued along with the SL50 and SL60
but the rest of the Apollo products will continue to be produced and
supported. The discontinued products will also be supported for years to
come.
I hope this answers some of your questions, thank you for your email.
We value your business and your feedback.
===========================================================================
===========
Sooooooo.... according to the "source", GX Series products along with SL50
and SL60 are (or will be) discontinued (though supported). The other
products are still being offered. I suspect that they will not make a
product with the "UPS" brand anymore, but unless the GarminAT people are
outright lying to me (I suspect NOT), then they have products that they are
likely to sell as long as there are adequate buyers and there is no
conflicting product.
The CNX80, SL30/SL40, MX20 and to *some* extent the SL70 (R) are in fact
unique products. I cannot see them continuing with the SL15 for too long but
since that is basically a PSE unit, you are still "good to go" there. I am
looking at using some combination of the above.
James
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
> Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:01 PM
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
>
>
> I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
> would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
> hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
> that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
> make the UPS line. Damn!
>
> I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
> ever get to use it.
>
> Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>
> Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Kunkel" <rvator(at)socal.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Hi Paul,
Is the 4" yoke you are using a standard yoke or a thin nose yoke? Most 4"
thin nose yokes are only rated for a 3/32" rivet although you typically
won't see that noted anywhere. Even most standard 4" yokes are only rated
for a 1/8" rivet & will flex substantially on the longer rivets. You need to
call whomever you got the yoke from first & ask what size rivet it's rated
for before trying anything else.
With respect to the 2nd part of your message - a pneumatic squeezer is a
very friendly tool, but it's also very dumb! Once it starts to squeeze a
rivet crookedly (at an angle) there's absolutely no way to straighten it
out. Drill it out & put in another one. Continuing to squeeze a rivet with
3000 lbs. of pressure, at an angle, in thin aluminum will undoubtedly deform
not only the rivet, but also the surrounding skin as you have discovered.
If you want to final size the prepunched holes to a perfectly round, exact
size use #30 & #40 reamers instead of drill bits. Also remember that the
pilots on the dimple dies are sized #30 & #40. Not disrespecting any one
else's experience &/or practices, but those pilots are designed to fit
specific hole sizes so the rest of the dimple die can form the material
around it. They are not designed to do additional streching &/or forming
although they will if used in such a manner.
When using the pneumatic squeezer we suggest you put the cupped squeezer set
in the top of the yoke & "hang" it on the manufactured head of the rivet.
Much easier than trying to come onto the manufactured head straight with the
cupped set in the set holder while trying to balance the tool, especially in
tight or awkward places. Using the smallest yoke appropriate for the job
will also help you balance the tool.
We contribute articles monthly to the SoCal RV NewsLetter. The newsletters
can be found at:
http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/
You might want to check out the articles in the July & August newsletters.
They specifically deal with Tolerances & Pneumatic Squeezers which you are
addressing at this time.
Any other questions, pls. contact us off-list.
Blue Skies!
Fred W. Kunkel
CLEAR AIR
www.clearairtools.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
> I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
> spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
> and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
> 4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
> of square.
>
> The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
> squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
> subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
>
> Paul
>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are
worse
> > than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming
you
> > are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an
18"
> > handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles
together.
> > It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the
right
> > pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets
worse
> > with 1/8" rivets.
> >
> > The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> > pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> > perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to
keep
> > that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> > bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
> >
> > Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more
fun
> > dimpling, too!
> >
> > Jim Bower
> > St. Louis, MO
> > RV-6A Fuselage
> >
> >
> > >From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > >offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> > http://shopping.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
----- Original Message -----
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
>
> In response to an email I sent to ***GARMIN AT*** regarding the future of
> CNX80/MX20/SL70(R)/SL15/SL30 (maybe), I got the following response from
> ***GARMIN-AT*** ...
>
>
===========================================================================
> ===========
> James,
>
> I expect to see all three systems in question supported for the forseeable
> future. The CNX80 is currently the only WAAS GPS on the market that is
> approved under TSO-C146a. It also has a number of other unique features
> that will secure its place in the avionics marketplace. It has flight
> planning capabilities that allow you to insert a victor or jet airway into
a
> flight plan with a single entry. It has an infrared dataport that will
> allow users to do IFR flight planning with greater ease than is now
> possible. Its display, although smaller than the 530, is equal in
> resolution. There are other features I could list as well. In the case
of
> the 430 and 530, the success of those products speaks for itself, and they
> will only get better with time.
>
> The GX products will and have been discontinued along with the SL50 and
SL60
> but the rest of the Apollo products will continue to be produced and
> supported. The discontinued products will also be supported for years to
> come.
>
> I hope this answers some of your questions, thank you for your email.
>
> We value your business and your feedback.
>
===========================================================================
> ===========
>
>
> Sooooooo.... according to the "source", GX Series products along with SL50
> and SL60 are (or will be) discontinued (though supported). The other
> products are still being offered. I suspect that they will not make a
> product with the "UPS" brand anymore, but unless the GarminAT people are
> outright lying to me (I suspect NOT), then they have products that they
are
> likely to sell as long as there are adequate buyers and there is no
> conflicting product.
>
> The CNX80, SL30/SL40, MX20 and to *some* extent the SL70 (R) are in fact
> unique products. I cannot see them continuing with the SL15 for too long
but
> since that is basically a PSE unit, you are still "good to go" there. I am
> looking at using some combination of the above.
>
>
> James
>
>
> James
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
> > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2003 11:01 PM
> > To: RV-List
> > Subject: RV-List: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-(
> >
> >
> >
> > I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
> > would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
> > hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
> > that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
> > make the UPS line. Damn!
> >
> > I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
> > ever get to use it.
> >
> > Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
> >
> > Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
> >
> > --
> > Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> > Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> > RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> |
Listers,
I used to get a lot of oil on the belly of my RV4. So I installed a
air/oil separator and fed it back into my engine.
Noticed that oil appeared milky. Installed plastic catch bottle coming
from air/oil separator. Found that I'd get a pint of water and some oil in
about 15 to 20 hrs during the winter.
Threw 11 thousand dollars at the engine. Problem with oil on belly went
away. Problem with water will always present but I drain it underneath
airplane and cleanup isn't that bad.
I don't think I'd want to return to the engine what was coming out of
that breather tube much less try and burn it.
Moral of story.= ( Money will keep the belly of an airplane cleaner.)
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> |
Listers,
To everyone that wrote me about Desoprime. Thanks
Come to find out, Desoprime needs to have the aluminum alodined before
application. So that's out. Don't want to make this project appear to be
more work than necessary.
I went with a self etching primer, as my RV4 has. It's held up on the
RV4, there's no reason why it shouldn't on an RV7.
I expect I'll be dead and gone before there's any evidence of corrosion.
When that happens, the owner can sue me.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
Bobby Hester wrote:
>
>I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
>would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
>hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
>that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
>make the UPS line. Damn!
>
Well, you should be concerned. Garmin did just that with the Terra
line. Bought it and then just stopped making it. Basically took a
great line of radios off the market. None of them a GPS which Garmin did
very well with. BUT this time Garmin has formed a new 'company' called
Garmin AT to continue to market the old UPS AT hardware. I'm not saying
that's a absolute sign that they're gonna keep building and selling the
AT stuff, but it's a different approach to the acquisition. Actually,
now that I think of it, it's probably easier to just dump a whole
'company'! Whew, what a pickle that puts us in! Now I'm starting to
get paranoid! I like the UPSAT stuff and plan on stuffing some big
bucks in my 10 panel. By then, though, things will be pretty stable, I
hope.
Linn
>
>I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
>ever get to use it.
>
>Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>
>Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Art Glaser <airplane(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
linn walters wrote:
>
>Bobby Hester wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>I call Gulf Coast Avionics today to get a quote on some radios so I
>>would have an idea of what it's going to cost when the time comes. I was
>>hoping to start with a SL30 and a SL70 and later add a GX60. I was told
>>that the GX60 has been discontinued and that Garmin was going to stop
>>make the UPS line. Damn!
>>
>>
>>
>Well, you should be concerned. Garmin did just that with the Terra
>line. Bought it and then just stopped making it. Basically took a
>great line of radios off the market. None of them a GPS which Garmin did
>very well with. BUT this time Garmin has formed a new 'company' called
>Garmin AT to continue to market the old UPS AT hardware. I'm not saying
>that's a absolute sign that they're gonna keep building and selling the
>AT stuff, but it's a different approach to the acquisition. Actually,
>now that I think of it, it's probably easier to just dump a whole
>'company'! Whew, what a pickle that puts us in! Now I'm starting to
>get paranoid! I like the UPSAT stuff and plan on stuffing some big
>bucks in my 10 panel. By then, though, things will be pretty stable, I
>hope.
>Linn
>
>
>
>>I sure don't want to buy something that will be discontinued before I
>>ever get to use it.
>>
>>Is this news correct? I haven't seen any news to this affect.
>>
>>Guess I'll end up going with Garmin stuff GNS-430, GTX-327
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: EKP-III C-MAP GPS (was GARMIN 196 Price) |
http://aviation.c-map.com/
Its a aviation GPS with full Jepp database and a user road/street/house
level of display should you want it. Its a small knee board sized unit.
Great factory support and available used thru E-BAY and Tropic Aero.
New mono units available thru the factory for 595$. Color units
available thru discounter Marv Golden (and many others) for 1550$.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
I chose gray also. I didn't want annoying reflections off the canopy.
And yes it might get hot inside at Sun-N-Fun and Copperstate, but its going to
be a lot warmer at 10,000 ft on a January day in Wyoming or Minnesota.
John Danielson
RV-6 175 Hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 crash 11/8/03 |
Reprinted from Staronline.com
Venturan, 85, killed when
plane crashes
Experimental craft slams into
bottom of Santa Clara River
By Charles Levin,
clevin(at)VenturaCountyStar.com
November 8, 2003
The pilot of an experimental plane was
killed Friday when he crashed in the Santa Clara
River bottom about a mile east of the
Saticoy Bridge, authorities said.
The pilot was identified as Russ Cathaway,
85, of Ventura by the Ventura County Medical
Examiner. An autopsy will be performed to
determine the cause of death.
The single-engine,
two-seat RV-6A aircraft was registered to
Cathaway, a former
Lockheed engineer, who flew out of Santa
Paula Airport.
"I was talking to him
before he took off," said Pat Quinn, 62,
of Ventura. "We were
talking about flying because it was such
a beautiful day."
It's unclear why the
plane crashed, said Eric Nishimoto,
spokesman with the
Ventura County Sheriff's Department.
A witness called the
department around 3:20 p.m. to report
seeing the plane flying
west and very low over the river bed
when it turned back
toward Santa Paula, Nishimoto said.
The witness did not see
the crash but could see sand flying up
in the air where the
plane went down, Nishimoto said. "She
knew there was an
impact," he said.
A Ventura County
Sheriff's Department helicopter arrived at
the scene and found the
red and white aircraft upside down
with the pilot pinned
inside the cockpit, which was filled with
sand, Nishimoto said.
The pilot was dead when emergency
personnel reached him.
Officials believe the
plane went down nose first, Nishimoto
said.
Ventura County Fire
Department firefighters were called in to
pull the pilot from the
wreckage, Nishimoto said. Ventura City
firefighters also
assisted.
Officials from the
Federal Aviation Administration and
National Transportation
Safety Board were being called to
investigate the crash,
Nishimoto said.
Mike Dewey said
Cathaway was among the oldest active pilots
at the airport. Dewey
described Cathaway as a passionate
aviator, whose youthful
appearance belied his octogenarian
status.
Dewey said Cathaway had
worked at Lockheed Martin's
Skunkworks division,
famous for designing experimental
planes.
Cathaway also designed
"El Bandito," a popular racing plane,
later renamed the
"Frenzel Special," Dewey said. The plane
was originally designed for sport flying and
capable of aerobatics.
Dewey said there are about 3,500 RV-6As
flying today. "As far as experimental airplanes
go, it's the most prolific and the Cadillac
of the airplanes," Dewey said. "It's got a great
safety record."
Cathaway built the RV-6A aircraft. "He did a
fabulous, beautiful, meticulous job as you
would expect any engineer to do," Dewey
said.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
Where in the North east?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' workshops
>
> Charles Rowbotham wrote:
>
> >
> >All,
> >
> >Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we made
in
> >our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
> >
> >For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring
Bob
> >on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
> >
> >Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> >RV-8A
> >
> >
> >
> In the North East, could that be narrowed down just a bit more?
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
Hi All-
Just a couple of quick data points:
1 I've decided to go with BMA, warts and all. This is at least in part
do to the constant upgrades.
2 Despite the lack of PR savvy earlier in their existence, my biggest /
main / only real problem with them so far is their inability to hit promised delivery
dates. On anything. Hopefully this will be cured with their move to
their new digs in COS.
3 I bought some engine sensors from GRT. Best bang for the buck, IMHO.
While discussing some details with one of their techs, he asked me what I was
going to hook them up to. When I told him BMA, he immediately told me that the
BMA system WOULD NOT FUNCTION WITHOUT GPS LOCK. I didn't tell him I'd already
done lots of hand held 'aerobatics' with the box without even attaching the
GPS antenna. I just asked him how I could loose the whole constellation at
once. He had no answer.
4 While researching products, I tend to ask venders very pointed questions
about their products as well as the competitions. In my experience (just one
guy) I've not heard Greg say anything bad about the competition.
Glen Matejcek
RV-8 QB, pulling wires / cuttin' holes in the panel
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | Electrical questions |
RV listers with specific electrical questions may want to take note of the
following list --- it is a great resource!
I could go into a discussion of trouble analysis and mitigation
for you to relay to the RV-List . . . but I think it wiser to
suggest that the writer be urged to contact the manufacturer and/or
designer of a product that's giving him problems instead of throwing
the question out onto a group that specializes in other issues.
I'm presuming that he's having problems with an ov module he built
or purchased from me or B&C. The AeroElectric-List is just a
sign-up away on the same server as the RV-List. I used to
subscribe to a dozen list servers and have to sort through
200-300 pieces of e-mail a day looking for electrical/avionics
systems issues. It simply got to be too much effort and served
only the folks on lists I subscribed to. Please encourage folks
on the various airframe lists to ALSO participate on the
AeroElectric-List where their electrical systems issues are most
likely to be dealt with quickly and to the benefit of more
builders.
Bob . . .
Scott Diffenbaugh
diff(at)foothill.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Thanks Fred, those articles were very informative.
I agree completely with your assessment of pneumatics as "dumb"...
I need to stop being so lazy and get out that hand squeezer more often
especially on these tricky rivets.
Regards,
Paul
PS: I was referring to 3/32 rivets and have tried shorter yokes so
yoke flex probably wasn't the main problem. I think it's operator
error and slightly misaligned holes, then leading to sloped dimples
after the first failed squeeze.
>
> Hi Paul,
>
> Is the 4" yoke you are using a standard yoke or a thin nose yoke? Most 4"
> thin nose yokes are only rated for a 3/32" rivet although you typically
> won't see that noted anywhere. Even most standard 4" yokes are only rated
> for a 1/8" rivet & will flex substantially on the longer rivets. You need to
> call whomever you got the yoke from first & ask what size rivet it's rated
> for before trying anything else.
>
> With respect to the 2nd part of your message - a pneumatic squeezer is a
> very friendly tool, but it's also very dumb! Once it starts to squeeze a
> rivet crookedly (at an angle) there's absolutely no way to straighten it
> out. Drill it out & put in another one. Continuing to squeeze a rivet with
> 3000 lbs. of pressure, at an angle, in thin aluminum will undoubtedly deform
> not only the rivet, but also the surrounding skin as you have discovered.
>
> If you want to final size the prepunched holes to a perfectly round, exact
> size use #30 & #40 reamers instead of drill bits. Also remember that the
> pilots on the dimple dies are sized #30 & #40. Not disrespecting any one
> else's experience &/or practices, but those pilots are designed to fit
> specific hole sizes so the rest of the dimple die can form the material
> around it. They are not designed to do additional streching &/or forming
> although they will if used in such a manner.
>
> When using the pneumatic squeezer we suggest you put the cupped squeezer set
> in the top of the yoke & "hang" it on the manufactured head of the rivet.
> Much easier than trying to come onto the manufactured head straight with the
> cupped set in the set holder while trying to balance the tool, especially in
> tight or awkward places. Using the smallest yoke appropriate for the job
> will also help you balance the tool.
>
> We contribute articles monthly to the SoCal RV NewsLetter. The newsletters
> can be found at:
>
> http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/
>
> You might want to check out the articles in the July & August newsletters.
> They specifically deal with Tolerances & Pneumatic Squeezers which you are
> addressing at this time.
>
> Any other questions, pls. contact us off-list.
>
> Blue Skies!
>
> Fred W. Kunkel
> CLEAR AIR
> www.clearairtools.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Paul Eastham" <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>
>
> >
> > I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
> > spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
> > and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
> > 4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
> > of square.
> >
> > The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
> > squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
> > subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > >
> > > Paul,
> > >
> > > Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are
> worse
> > > than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming
> you
> > > are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an
> 18"
> > > handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles
> together.
> > > It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the
> right
> > > pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets
> worse
> > > with 1/8" rivets.
> > >
> > > The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> > > pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> > > perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to
> keep
> > > that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> > > bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
> > >
> > > Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more
> fun
> > > dimpling, too!
> > >
> > > Jim Bower
> > > St. Louis, MO
> > > RV-6A Fuselage
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> > > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> > > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >Hi everyone,
> > > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > > >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > > >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > > >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > > >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > > >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > > >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > > >
> > > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > > >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > > >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > > >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > > >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > > >offset.
> > > >
> > > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > > >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > > >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > > >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > > >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > > >
> > > >Thanks,
> > > >Paul
> > > >
> > > >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > > >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> > > http://shopping.msn.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | Alternate static sources |
My solution was to install a "T" in the VSI static port. One leg goes to
the static line. The other I pointed down and put a cap on it. If needed,
I can easily reach under the panel and unscrew the cap for alternate static
air.
Ken Harrill
RV-6, 285 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: Paul Besing [mailto:azpilot(at)extremezone.com]
Subject: Re: RV-List: Alternate static sources
I guess it comes down to $$. How much is a VSI? Probably more than $200.
I'd opt for the static option in the pitot. Or, you can save the money now,
and then roll the dice. Personally, I would roll the dice. In a pinch, you
could break the glass, but it is not likely that you will ice over both
static ports unless you really plan on flying some hard IFR, in my opinion.
Don't want to start a debate on IFR flight, but I think too much redunancy
is overkill. We train for things to fail, so deal with what you have, and
maintain an adequate balance of how much redunancy you really need. Bob
Knuckolls book describes this in detail with his electrical system. Design
it right, build it right, and put in minimal backup, and you shouldn't have
Murphy come visit you.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Alternate static sources
>
>
> A question for all you IFR guys. I plan to build my RV-9A for IFR and to
> use two fuselage static ports (linked so as to average out any slip
error).
> My question is one of redundancy. Is there a need with this arrangement
to
> have yet a third port for redundancy? A heated pitot is the way I'm
> thinking (at least it would be a source that wouldn't ice over). What are
> the odds of both fuselage ports freezing or clogging at the same time
since
> if one did, the other would be the alternate? Has it happened to anyone?
> I'm wondering if the price delta of $200 between with and without static
in
> the pitot is worth it or if in the very rare instance I can just break the
> VSI glass. Any input would be greatly appreciated! Thanks!
>
> Doug Fischer
> 90706
>
> I'm planning on putting a tee in the line in the cabin and installing an
> accessible fuel drain valve that can be locked in the open position.
SAF-AIR
> pn. 1250 would fit the bill.
>
>
> Stan Blanton
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings |
Thanks to all who chimed in on this- and yes, I know it's PCV- that's what I
get for posting at 1:00 a.m.- I correct folks on that one myself! Soooooo- I
will get a separator. Wick's has one for $40 and another for $60. Anybody
recommend either of these, or suggest a good one?
Following is just more discussion about PCV- delete now if uninterested!
I especially want to thank Jim for his detailed explanation, but am confused
about the reference to the gases venting to the intake manifold through some
kind of a metering valve. So I went on a field trip to the driveway. I find
that on my '88 Chevy pickup that the vent goes from the valve cover to the PCV
valve located on the air cleaner can, just inside of the round pleated paper
filter and therefore upstream of the throttle plate and exposed to slightly
less that atmospheric pressure due to losses from the intake ducting and air
filter. But this still places the crankcase gasses at a higher pressure. I had
always been under the impression (erroneously, perhaps) that the valve itself
was merely a check valve to prevent gasses from flowing back into the crankcase,
possibly from a backfire? Anyway, this is what I was considering for my
O-320.
Next I investigated my '96 Chevy pickup (hey, it's Tennessee, OK?! I had a
Beemer when I lived in Atlanta!) and found it has TWO hoses from the valve
covers, one on each side. One of them is a simple tube, maybe 5/8", that simply
routes to the plastic box on top of the throttle body with no valve whatsoever,
unless it's buried in the valve cover somehow. The other one does route to
some kind of device attached to the intake manifold. Perhaps this is the
metering device Jim refers to, but for what purpose and why in combination with
the
other vent, is unknown to me.
The reference someone else made to the large volume of oil in the blow-by of
air-cooled engines is possibly a good reason not to do this as I would imagine
some oil would condense in the breather hose and run down into the air box
after shutdown.
Thanks for the discussion- you folks paid your list-dues yet?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacklockamy(at)att.net |
| Subject: | FloScan sensor in cabin tunnel |
I'd like to install my fuel flow sensor (FloScan from Grand Rapids w/EIS-
4000) in the cabin tunnel running from the sparbox to the firewall (RV-7A).
I would install an in-line fuel filter just after the Van's fuel selector
valve, then the FloScan, inline up to the facet electric fuel pump mounted
inside the cabin on the firewall. Nice straight run, easy to maintain/access
and not located on the forward side of the firewall (heat).
Has anyone else tried this AND been successful? My only concern is when I
read that the 'wires' on the sensor must be mounted "UP" and with this tunnel
installation the wires would be horizontal.
Spoke with GRT this afternoon and they said the location and installation
sounded great but were unsure whether or not the having the sensor mounted
horizontal would cause bubbles to be created in the sensor thus causing a
possible flucuation/error in the fuel flow readings.
Comments and ideas welcomed.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | AHRS vs mechanical gyros |
>
> 3 I bought some engine sensors from GRT. Best bang for the
>buck, IMHO. While discussing some details with one of their techs,
>he asked me what I was going to hook them up to. When I told him
>BMA, he immediately told me that the BMA system WOULD NOT FUNCTION
>WITHOUT GPS LOCK. I didn't tell him I'd already done lots of hand
>held 'aerobatics' with the box without even attaching the GPS
>antenna. I just asked him how I could loose the whole constellation
>at once. He had no answer.
There are several ways to lose the GPS signal due to a single failure
- problem with the antenna, problem with the coax from the antenna,
lose of power to the GPS unit, interference with the GPS signal from
an on-board source, interference with the GPS signal from an external
source, etc. I have been flying with GPS during flight tests and
operational since 1994, and I have seen many cases where the GPS
capability has been lost for short periods. So, I think you need to
be sure that whatever avionics and procedures are used allow for a
continued safe flight and landing without a GPS signal.
It is quite possible that the BMA EFIS systems would still be useable
in a degraded mode without a GPS input, but it would be wise to check
this out via a flight test.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GLCole5475(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
It seems to me that all those airliners with gray interiors also have a rather
solid ceiling to block out the sunlight, unlike our clear canopies.
Gary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fwd: Re: Watsonville |
Note: forwarded message attached.
Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 14:33:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Watsonville
--0-1554119745-1068762801=:44468
Hi Mickey,
I think if you can learn from a book, (I don't do that so well...more of a visual
learner) then I think you will be fine. The bottom line is...no circut breakers,
no avionics master switch necessary, use fuse blocks (2 or 3) for main bus,
essential buss and possibly battery buss. Use a central grounding block under
the panel with push on connectors.
He talks about not preventing failure but being "failure tolerant", ie: if the
main bus goes down, you have the essential bus to fly on to destination (or until
you can safely land). repairs are done on the ground, not toubleshot in the
air.
I'm sure if Bob were to summarize his ideas for you he could do much better than
me. Indeed, get the book! many of his ideas are there.
Mickey Coggins wrote:
Hi Ron,
Did you learn things that are not in the book?
I'm wondering if it is worth flying to the session
in Ft. Worth from Switzerland. If it is just a
matter of me buckling down and really carefully
reading the book, that would be a better use of
my time, I believe.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
GSM: +41-79-210-3762
FAX: +41-86-079-210-3762
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007
Empennage complete, waiting for wings to arrive
--0-1554119745-1068762801=:44468
Hi Mickey,
I think if you can learn from a book, (I don't do that so well...more of a visual
learner) then I think you will be fine. The bottom line is...no circut breakers,
no avionics master switch necessary, use fuse blocks (2 or 3) for main bus,
essential buss and possibly battery buss. Use a central grounding
block under the panel with push on connectors.
He talks about not preventing failure but being "failure tolerant", ie: if the
main bus goes down, you have the essential bus to fly on to destination (or until
you can safely land). repairs are done on the ground, not toubleshot in the
air.
I'm sure if Bob were to summarize his ideas for you he could do much better than
me. Indeed, get the book! many of his ideas are there.
Mickey Coggins mick(at)rv8.ch wrote:
Hi Ron,
Did you learn things that are not in the book?
I'm wondering if it is worth flying to the session
in Ft. Worth from Switzerland. If it is just a
matter of me buckling down and really carefully
reading the book, that would be a better use of
my time, I believe.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
GSM: +41-79-210-3762
FAX: +41-86-079-210-3762
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007
Empennage complete, waiting for wings to arrive
--0-1554119745-1068762801=:44468--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mail Filter" <mailfilter(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RV Operating Costs? |
I am looking to purchase a flying RV for the purpose of time building. I figure
that if I am going to spend 1,000 hrs in a plane, I might as well enjoy it.
Since I am looking to put a great deal of hours on a plane in short period of
time, operating costs is prime concern. If anyone can give me an idea what
their hourly and fixed costs are I would greatly appreciate it. I know this
will vary greatly among individuals, but it will give me some method of
comparing the RV purchase to other alternatives. I am also curious as to what
others are paying for insurance and annuals (if you pay for annuals).
Thanks,
Chad VonHoven
e-mail: mailfilter(at)bellsouth.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
I painted the inside of my plane the same color grey as the powder coating
and dont notice any reflections...............Then of course I only have
1.4 hours on the plane and am so darned excited that I probably dont notice.
>It seems to me that all those airliners with gray interiors also have a
>rather solid ceiling to block out the sunlight, unlike our clear canopies.
>
>Gary
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
Yeah, that 4" yoke weighs a TON! I have a 2.5" yoke as well, and it will
fit in most of the places you need. You will really enjoy the pneumo
squeezer once you are working in the confines of the fuselage!!! Happy
riveting!
Jim
>From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: clinched rivets?
>Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2003 20:12:27 -0800
>
>
>I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
>spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
>and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
>4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
>of square.
>
>The ongoing problem, however, is once the first rivet leans over, it
>squashes the dimple a little in that direction, such that
>subsequent rivets seem destined to follow in the same direction.
>
>Paul
>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Here's my $0.02 worth. The observation that your squeezed rivets are
>worse
> > than your driven ones could be blamed on the squeezer. (I'm assuming
>you
> > are using a hand squeezer.) You have a rivet and sets at one end of an
>18"
> > handle pair, and you are at the other end squeezing the handles
>together.
> > It's hard to keep the squeezer yoke and sets in line AND maintain the
>right
> > pressure on the rivet head to keep it against the material. This gets
>worse
> > with 1/8" rivets.
> >
> > The best $350.00 to $400.00 you will EVER spend on your project is a
> > pneumatic squeezer. You can operate it with one hand while you maintain
> > perfect alignment on the rivet. You aren't at arm's length trying to
>keep
> > that long squeezer lined up. I haven't touched my hand squeezer since I
> > bought the pneumatic one over 2 years ago.
> >
> > Not only does it help ensure better rivets, but you will have a lot more
>fun
> > dimpling, too!
> >
> > Jim Bower
> > St. Louis, MO
> > RV-6A Fuselage
> >
> >
> > >From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > >Subject: RV-List: clinched rivets?
> > >Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:48:51 -0800
> > >
> > >
> > >Hi everyone,
> > > I just finished riveting most of my VS and oddly enough I had more
> > >problems with my squeezed rivets than the bucked ones. A few of the
> > >skin-to-rib rivets squeezed over to the side just enough to reveal
> > >bits of the dimple edge, and sometimes the hole inside that. The
> > >cause was apparently imperfect alignment of the holes by just a hair
> > >-- I couldn't get it any closer despite a lot of pushing and prodding.
> > >(which is also a mystery...it all fit together fine when drilling...)
> > >
> > > The mil-spec sounds like either of these cases is unacceptable
> > >(though if you hold your rivet gauge up to an empty dimple you will
> > >see it takes a perfectly centered rivet to fully obscure the outer
> > >dimple edge) However, my rivets don't look totally "clinched",
> > >like a bent-over nail or oval in shape. They are circular but slightly
> > >offset.
> > >
> > > Are either of these sorts of rivets anything to worry about?
> > >Especially when drilling them out does not improve the problem --
> > >since the hole isn't perfectly perpendicular to the dimple, they tend
> > >to slide over again. Drilling to #30 and using an oops rivet leaves
> > >an uneven dimple on the shop side but it doesn't clinch any more.
> > >
> > >Thanks,
> > >Paul
> > >
> > >PS: is it just me, or do the (Avery) dimple dies leave a hole that's
> > >slightly too big for the shaft of the AD3 rivet? Is this normal?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > MSN Shopping upgraded for the holidays! Snappier product search...
> > http://shopping.msn.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
From Beethoven to the Rolling Stones, your favorite music is always playing
on MSN Radio Plus. No ads, no talk. Trial month FREE!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy frame painting. |
The F16 has a gray interior but a great air conditioner to offset the heat. With
the hot Bama sun over my RV4, I just climb until the outside air is tolerable
(75 or less) and it doesn't matter what color it is.
RR
GLCole5475(at)aol.com wrote:
It seems to me that all those airliners with gray interiors also have a rather
solid ceiling to block out the sunlight, unlike our clear canopies.
Gary
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cure for Slimybellyosis? re-tittled: PCV and Lycomings |
Mark;
I bought the " shame on you" for a slimy belly separator two years ago and have
no complaints. I have also had a report on the Van's separator from a friend.
It's built by some RV guys and works well. It's also cheaper than mine($157).
I had the Aircraft Spuce cheapie(the one for experimentals only) on a tailwind
which works too but is alot bigger. On the new one I welded a nipple on one
of my oil return lines and attached it to the exit nipple on the separator with
a rubber line. Works fine and yes, the belly stays way clean.
RR
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
Thanks to all who chimed in on this- and yes, I know it's PCV- that's what I
get for posting at 1:00 a.m.- I correct folks on that one myself! Soooooo- I
will get a separator. Wick's has one for $40 and another for $60. Anybody
recommend either of these, or suggest a good one?
Following is just more discussion about PCV- delete now if uninterested!
I especially want to thank Jim for his detailed explanation, but am confused
about the reference to the gases venting to the intake manifold through some
kind of a metering valve. So I went on a field trip to the driveway. I find
that on my '88 Chevy pickup that the vent goes from the valve cover to the PCV
valve located on the air cleaner can, just inside of the round pleated paper
filter and therefore upstream of the throttle plate and exposed to slightly
less that atmospheric pressure due to losses from the intake ducting and air
filter. But this still places the crankcase gasses at a higher pressure. I had
always been under the impression (erroneously, perhaps) that the valve itself
was merely a check valve to prevent gasses from flowing back into the crankcase,
possibly from a backfire? Anyway, this is what I was considering for my
O-320.
Next I investigated my '96 Chevy pickup (hey, it's Tennessee, OK?! I had a
Beemer when I lived in Atlanta!) and found it has TWO hoses from the valve
covers, one on each side. One of them is a simple tube, maybe 5/8", that simply
routes to the plastic box on top of the throttle body with no valve whatsoever,
unless it's buried in the valve cover somehow. The other one does route to
some kind of device attached to the intake manifold. Perhaps this is the
metering device Jim refers to, but for what purpose and why in combination with
the
other vent, is unknown to me.
The reference someone else made to the large volume of oil in the blow-by of
air-cooled engines is possibly a good reason not to do this as I would imagine
some oil would condense in the breather hose and run down into the air box
after shutdown.
Thanks for the discussion- you folks paid your list-dues yet?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stanley Blanton" <stanb(at)door.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin 295GPS for sale |
I'm posting this for a friend.
Stan Blanton
For Sale:
Garmin 295 GPS
Includes memory card, streetmap database, topo database.
$900
Please contact:
Rick Lies
rliles(at)indmolding.com
Fax 806-474-1168
if interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS-less flight with the Trio Avionics EZ Pilot Autopilot |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Charlie & Tupper England wrote:
>>
>>
>>>I have a question based on what I read on their web site. Have either
>>>of you disabled your GPS feed to the a/p to check its reaction? The
>>>web site seems to indicate that there is no backup for loss of heading
>>>info from the GPS.
>>>
>>>
>
>
>After Charlie's "challenge" < :-) > I made a flight this evening for
>the purpose of flying the EZ-Pilot without GPS to see how it would react
>to loss of reference data.
>
>After getting the plane established on heading and altitude in light
>turbulence with the EZ-Pilot engaged, I turned off the Lowrance Airmap
>100 and watched as the EZ-Pilot display indicated "No GPS". For two
>minutes the flight continued as before except for a drift of about five
>degrees in heading. I could not feel a difference in the way the
>auto-pilot, now wing leveler, kept the wings level, even in the light chop.
>
>I then rolled the plane 45 degrees left followed by a 45 degree roll to
>the right. While the plane was in the right bank I released the stick
>and the plane rolled back left, then a few degrees left of center, then
>back to wings level.
>
>Next was a 180 degree standard rate turn to the right. As I neared the
>end of the maneuver, I released the stick with the plane still banked to
>the right; the plane rolled a few degrees past center then settled back
>into wings level.
>
>This is getting interesting! Next came a 45 degree bank to the left for
>90 degrees of yaw followed by a similar turn back to the right. While
>the plane was in the 45 degree right bank, I released the stick, the
>plane recovered, but the brutality was beginning to take its toll on the
>solid-state gyro. This time the wings stayed tilted about five degrees
>to the left and the plane began a very slow, one degree/sec yaw to the left.
>
>I banked the plane a few more times and the gyro finally began to get a
>little "drunk"; it would no longer return absolutely to wings level and
>the plane was now doing very shallow turns instead of flying straight. I
>could have used the trim switch to straighten out the flight path if
>desired, but that was not the point of this test.
>
>However, at this point, the EZ-Pilot had been flying the plane for over
>twelve minutes and had endured many abrupt maneuvers; even though the
>system could no longer fly the plane straight without retrimming, it
>still had no difficulty keeping the plane upright. Maximum "lean" angles
>I saw even with the gyro saturated was less than ten degrees.
>
>It could be that if the test had continued for an extended period of
>time with more maneuvers, the system would have finally lost its sense
>of balance. But I was very impressed at how long the EZ-Pilot can keep
>the plane upright even though it has no reference to gravity or heading.
>
>If a momentary glitch occurred in the EZ-Pilot GPS data stream, the
>pilot would never even notice it. And if GPS goes down for an extended
>period of time, the EZ-Pilot gyro will give the pilot plenty of time to
>get his hands out of his pockets, the coffee mug back in the cupholder,
>the CD out of the player, so he can reset the trim and continue the
>flight, all without causing any alarm or stress.
>
>I continue to be impressed at the solidity of this system.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>http://thervjournal.com
>
Thanks, Sam.
Their web site seems to hint that it will slowly get lost without GPS
info. It's good to know that it will still keep the wings level without
external assistance.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Pete Waters <pedroagua(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Operating Costs? |
Chad,
For my RV-4 with an O-360A1A (carburated, one Elec Ign, one magneto, fixed pitch):
- Roughly 8 Gal / hour for gas. Compute fuel cost based on your local price.
- About 1 quart of oil every five hours. Cost negligible.
- Loan: ~400/month for 15 years on $45K financed price. Getting financing can be tricky, since the majority of lenders who finance airplanes won't touch homebuilts. When I was initially looking last year, NAFCO was about the only show in town. I actually got a lead on a small-town bank in Iowa, First National Bank Midwest (1-888-559-8892, www.fnbmidwest.com), that was run / owned by a couple of pilots who were starting to think that this situation might be an unfilled market niche. I.e. they were thinking of expanding their aircraft-loan policies to include homebuilts if the right case came along. After I talk to them (specifically, to one of the bank officers named, honest, Ed Sullivan), they thought about it decided that I had the right combination of flight experience (and associated low insurance risk) and financial situation like debt-to-income ratio. So, I got the first loan they ever gave on an experimental aircraft. It helped that I was buying an RV, where the
numbers-in-service and safety record exceed some certificated aircraft. Note,
though, that their website currently says, no hombuilts, os either they changed
their policy or their website is out-of-date. But, they haven't called in
my loan, so go figure. You lose nothing by asking. (BTW, my debt-to-income ratio
has changed considerably.)
- Insurance: ~ 1400 / year, via SkySmith Brokerage. Cheaper overall if you pay
all in one payment, although you can pay in monthly installments for a surcharge.
Cost is based on flight experience / hours, ratings held, and, if applicable,
tailwheel time. Your lender will insist that you have hull insurance
on the airplane so they can recoup some of the loan if it gets wrecked. If you
can buy the plane outright and don't have a lender insisting that you get hull
insurance, you can carry just liability for a lot less. I wouldn't do it,
but that's just me.
- Hangar: totally dependent on where you live. I'm in a small desert town and
my tiny $135/month hangar is the cheapest I know of anywhere. You can drive
the hangar price down by sharing with somebody. You can eliminate it entirely
by tying the airplane down outside, but that might hurt the resale value and
the increased insurance rates will offset at least some of the savings. Also,
every time you hear news of a thunderstorm hitting the airport your nerves will
jangle and you'll end up driving out there to check on your baby, I mean, your
investment. Most important: many airports have hangar waiting lists lasting
YEARS. Get on your airport's waiting list NOW if your airport is one of those,
even if you haven't selected the airplane yet. This costs nothing and you
can always cancel later.
Maintenance: during the pre-purchase inspection, I had some knowledgeable folks
look over the airplane as best they could, but few, if any, sellers will let
a potential buyer really rip an airplane open prior to the check clearing.
So, right after buying, I had an A&P do a full, certified-airplane style annual
inspection on the airplane and strip it down to parade rest, so I could really
get a look inside the guts of it. It turned out to need $700 worth of exhaust
rework, a new starter, some new wiring, and some other stuff. All in all,
with labor, this cost about $3000. I beleive (hope) that this was a "bow wave"
of maintenance that corrected some stuff that probably should have been corrected
by the previous owners. We'll see at the next annual if this is true.
Routine maintenance: do the oil changes yourself (and send the oil samples out
for metal analysis) ever 25 hours. You'll need an altimeter / transponder
and ELT check every two years (probably about $250 total)..
The nice thing about homebuilts is, you can do the work yourself if you have
the time, skill, and confidence to do so. Since you're not the builder, you have
to get an A&P to do the yearly condition inspection, but if you go nuts and
decide that you want to change the engine or wings yourself, you're legally
allowed to do it as long as you file paperwork with the FAA afterward. Not that
this is smart, but stupidity, while often fatal, is not always illegal.
Three final points: one, if you haven't already, buy at least one book or video on how to buy an airplane. There are numerous samples of both. I read "Airplane Ownership" by Ron Wanttaja, available through Amazon, which covered not just the purchase of the plane, but also owenership issues for the first year; and the video, "Airplane Buying Advice from the Experts", available at http://www.aeroprice.com/store/video.htm. These aren't the only ones available, but I liked them.
Two, AOPA has a Airplane Buyer's package that they will send to you free if you're
a member. Just call and ask for it. If you're not a member of AOPA for
some unfathomable reason, the cost of a year's membership is offset by the value
of this packet alone.
Third, if at all possible, buy your RV from the builder! I bought an RV-4 that
was built in 1988. I'm the fourth owner. The guy I bought it from (third
owner) was an airline pilot who commuted in it for about two years. The previous
owners (second owners) had it for about ten. The builder (first owner) I
haven't been able to track down; I believe he may be deceased (hopefully not
in an airplane crash). The plane came with complete logbooks but little else
-- no builder's log, no wiring diagrams, no parts list, no operating manual.
My instincts told me it was a solid airplane and that's been borne out over the
last year of flying it, but I'm having to do a lot of reverse engineering to
figure out, down to the part and serial-number level, what exactly is IN this
thing, because when something needs to be replaced I can't just open a manual
or have an FBO mechanic look in the Cessna or Piper parts list. I gather that
the homebuilding community has gotten better on doc
umenting
the construction of their airplanes than my airplane's builder did in 1988, so
try to buy an RV with detailed records, i.e. a builder's log, construction photographs,
part's list, etc. These documents should be included in the purchase
price of the airplane, just like the standard logbooks, Ideally, if you buy
an RV, buy it from the folks who built it, and ask them if you can keep their
phone number handy after the sale when you have a question.
One really final point... you say you just want an airplane to build time in.
I interpret this to mean, go to the airport, jump in it, fly, land, go home.
There's nothing wrong with this philosophy, but most homebuilders I've met don't
have it. Because each airplane is unique, you have to really get familiar
with it. You have to know it and understand it because if you don't, no one
else does. In this respect, it's actually more like a horse, with a unique personality,
than a motorcycle off an assembly line. I'm not trying to get all
metaphysical here but that's my best comparison. If you can find a well-built
RV that's as well-documented as a production airplane, or can call the builder
whenever you have a question, this might not be true, but, for all their flaws,
the standardization of certificated airplanes does give them better "show
up and drive" capability than that found in some unique homebuilts. Factory
airplanes have an "information infrastructure" that i
s
maintained by the company. We rarely think much about this infrastructure --
we've always taken it for granted because it was always there. Homebuilts, like
all machines, need this kind of information infrastructure too, but for the
homebuilt it must be maintained by YOU. This takes effort. Factor it into your
decision of whether to buy a homebuilt or a factory plane for your timebuilding
mission.
And, one really, truly, honest-to-gosh final point... caveat emptor. There are
some great homebuilts out there, but there's also some scary junk. Join an
EAA Chapter if you haven't already, hook up with the local EAA Tech Advisor,
preferably one who's built an RV, and have him do the pre-purchase inspection
on your candidate RV. A local A&P who does Cessnas and Pipers won't know what
to look for. This Tech Counselor could also do the pre-purchase test flight,
since he or she will know the differences between a good and not-so-good RV and
you might not. Fly in the back seat or right seat with him by all means, but
get somebody who's looked at a LOT of RVs to help you. If it costs you 500
bucks it's money well spent.
This answer is probably a lot more than you expected (or maybe wanted), but I
spent a lot of effort in 2001 learning a lot of this with little guidance.
Just trying to pass along what I learned. If you want hear me ramble on more,
email me off-list and I'll forward my phone number.
Pedro
RV-4 S/N 967
N562PW
~ 840 hours (~ 70 of them flown by me)
Mail Filter wrote:
I am looking to purchase a flying RV for the purpose of time building. I figure
that if I am going to spend 1,000 hrs in a plane, I might as well enjoy it.
Since I am looking to put a great deal of hours on a plane in short period of
time, operating costs is prime concern. If anyone can give me an idea what
their hourly and fixed costs are I would greatly appreciate it. I know this
will vary greatly among individuals, but it will give me some method of
comparing the RV purchase to other alternatives. I am also curious as to what
others are paying for insurance and annuals (if you pay for annuals).
Thanks,
Chad VonHoven
e-mail: mailfilter(at)bellsouth.net
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: UPS to Garmin to Discontinued :-( |
Art Glaser wrote:
>
>I do not think Garmin bought Terrra. Trimble?
>
Yeah, I do think you're right. Must have been a late night!
Linn
>
>linn walters wrote:
>
>
>Well, you should be concerned. Garmin did just that with the Terra
>line.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HalBenjamin(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: clinched rivets? |
In a message dated 11/12/2003 11:19:55 PM Eastern Standard Time,
eastham(at)netapp.com writes:
> I do have the pneumatic squeezer, and I agree that it is money well
> spent. You might still be right though...my squeezer is rather heavy
> and the rivets in question were in awkward spots (also throw in a long
> 4" yoke), so there's certainly plenty of room for things to come out
> of square.
>
Paul,
I have and use both hand & pneumatic squeezers. The one thing I've found
helpful when using squeezers is to break the operation into two parts.
With the hand squeezer I hold the riveter head in place & start the rivet by
squeezing with one hand first. That squeezes it just enough so that it
doesn't tip. Then I finish the squeeze with both hands on the handles.
With the pneumatic squeezer I hold the riveter head in place with one hand
and move the lever slowly just enough to hold the rivet in place and then finish
with full power if every thing feels right.
Practice on some scraps.....I used Ruthie's cookie pans. Hmmmm....Maybe
that's why she's my ex-wife. Rivets look good though!
Hope this helps.
Hal Benjamin
RV-4, Long Island, NY
Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "hollandm" <hollandm(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Floscan in cabin tunnel |
I'm build a 9A and considered putting a flowscan sensor and airflow performance
filter in the floor tunnel between the fuel selector and facet pump.
But you can't do this without modifying the tunnel cover since both the filter
and flowscan are too large to fit under the stock tunnel. This will raise your
floor and lead to a problem if you ever decide to level the cabin floor and
install carpeting.
I opted to put the flow scan between the facet pump and bulkhead fitting to the
gascolator. Not an ideal location but still on the cold side of the firewall.
No plans for further fuel filtering at the moment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <chrisw3(at)cox.net> |
Does anyone know of a source for statistics of the number of homebuilt
planes finished each year vs the number of spam cans sold every year.
And also the number of homebuilts flying vs the number of spam cans
flying? Just curious.
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw(at)programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tim Lewis <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FloScan sensor in cabin tunnel |
Jack,
I recommend you put a fuel filter or other pulse absorbing device between the flowscan
and the facet pump. For example, I've used the Fram G3 fuel filter for
several years. See the archives in the 1999 - 2000 time frame for a discussion.
The bottom line is the Facet pump (and to a lesser extent the engine driven
mechanical fuel pump) induce pulses in the fuel line which cause erratic readings
in the flow scan. The fuel filter, with some air trapped inside, acts
as a "capacitor" to smooth out the pulses so they don't impact the flowscan (as
much).
Tim Lewis
RV-6A N47TD, 600 hrs
EIS-4000 w/ flowscan transducer isolated by Fram G3 filters.
-----Original Message-----
From: jacklockamy(at)att.net
Subject: RV-List: FloScan sensor in cabin tunnel
I'd like to install my fuel flow sensor (FloScan from Grand Rapids w/EIS-
4000) in the cabin tunnel running from the sparbox to the firewall (RV-7A).
I would install an in-line fuel filter just after the Van's fuel selector
valve, then the FloScan, inline up to the facet electric fuel pump mounted
inside the cabin on the firewall. Nice straight run, easy to maintain/access
and not located on the forward side of the firewall (heat).
Has anyone else tried this AND been successful? My only concern is when I
read that the 'wires' on the sensor must be mounted "UP" and with this tunnel
installation the wires would be horizontal.
Spoke with GRT this afternoon and they said the location and installation
sounded great but were unsure whether or not the having the sensor mounted
horizontal would cause bubbles to be created in the sensor thus causing a
possible flucuation/error in the fuel flow readings.
Comments and ideas welcomed.
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hobby Stevens" <rayco(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | prop governor fitting |
I have a Lyc O360-A1A engine, and I am looking for the special flare fitting that
goes on the propellor governor adapter onto which you attach the steel line
to the front of the crankcase. The Lycoming part number is 74070.
This part is described as "elbow, 3/8 flared tube x 9/16-18 str. thd., adj 45 degrees".
If anyone has a spare fitting that they can part with, contact me directly.
Thanks,
Hobby Stevens
hstevens(at)raycocpa.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Nuckolls' workshops |
Hi Craig - all,
Location is Groton, CT (airport identifier GON)
Chuck
>From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' workshops
>Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2003 10:45:37 -0500
>
>
>Where in the North east?
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Bob Nuckolls' workshops
>
>
> >
> > Charles Rowbotham wrote:
> >
>
> > >
> > >All,
> > >
> > >Ron's experience certainly echos Dave and mine's. Best investment we
>made
>in
> > >our 8A, short of a major donation to Van's.
> > >
> > >For all of you in the North East - our EAA Chapter (334) is sponsoring
>Bob
> > >on March 6/7 of 2004. Hope to see many of you there.
> > >
> > >Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> > >RV-8A
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > In the North East, could that be narrowed down just a bit more?
> >
> > --
> > Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> > Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> > RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Balch <kbalch1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Prop governor swap... |
I've got a brand-new Woodward governor (model 210776 - of mid-1996
vintage) which I'd like to trade for a brand-new McCauley governor, such
as Van's is currently selling.
The Woodward governor has a thicker mounting flange which will require
slightly longer studs on the governor pad. I'm installing this on an
RV-4 with a Lyc O-320. Since the engine is already mounted, I don't
have much room to work with, so I'd rather swap the governor than try to
change the studs in the limited space available.
Anyway, if someone would like to have a Woodward governor, this would be
a lot cheaper than buying one outright...
Regards,
Ken Balch
RV-8 N118KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Bannon" <jack.bannon(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Dynon-10, EFIS LITE |
Our RV-6A needs an Artificial Horizon, DG, G Meter etc. We happened on an RV-4
driver who sent us to the Dynon site for the EFIS-D10, as well as the Blue mountain
site for the EFIS LITE. Both look terrific. Has anyone investigated, installed
one of these units? On the Dynon is the EDC-D10 Electronic Digital Compass
a good thing? I might wait for the heated AOA/Pitot probe to come out. We
were looking at getting the Garmin 196, but the EFIS LITE incorporates a GPS with
moving map. Any thoughts you can share?
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
Dear Listers,
I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and
also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here
provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
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and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
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prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
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Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
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is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
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I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is
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I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
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I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
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-----------------------------------------------
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Email List Administrator
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Grand Rapids EIS 4000 Tach compatibility with Lightspeed Plasma |
II
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys, a few weeks ago Ross Mickey posted some stuff to the List that he couldn't
get the Grand Rapids EIS 4000 engine monitor to read the tach signal from the
Lightspeed Plasma II ignition system. I have this combo so I asked Greg Toman
about it and here is his response. If you have this combo give him a call
and he can talk you through this quick and easy mod to get it to work (or if you're
ordering it new, and are using LSE PLasma II's, he can ship it this way
from day one).
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing with EIS 4000 and dual LSE Plasma II's....
Msg from Greg Toman 11/14/03:
This isn't a problem. There is a resistor and capacitor in the tach circuit that
you can remove youself with our help over the phone. When this is done, you
will be able to use the tach output from the Plasma II.
Don't worry...by now it seems like I have encountered every problem you can imagine!
That is an easy one, but it is one of the very rare cases where our(unmodified)
tachometer input circuit is not compatible with someones tach output.
Thanks
Greg Toman
Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc
616 583-8000
fax 616 583-8001
www.grtavionics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Stat question |
Email Dave Martin at Kitplanes magazine. He did an article on it recently. I seem
to remember there being more Van's kits sold last year than ALL piston powered
GA combined.
RR
Chris W wrote:
Does anyone know of a source for statistics of the number of homebuilt
planes finished each year vs the number of spam cans sold every year.
And also the number of homebuilts flying vs the number of spam cans
flying? Just curious.
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
chrisw(at)programmer.net
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil N" <pnewlon(at)toosan.com> |
| Subject: | Cold weather priming |
I am going to use Mar-Hyde 5111 to prime the parts of my -8. The air
temp in my garage has been around the 35-40 deg F mark for several days
now - I don't expect it to be any warmer than that until spring time
(central Ohio).
I ordered an infrared heater that will hang from the ceiling to warm a
small area of the garage so I can do some priming. An infrared heater
warms the objects under it, but does not warm the air (other than the
heat radiating from the objects that are warmed, which will be minimal I
think). I am a little concerned about the air temperature - the
instructions on the can say the parts being painted need to be at least
65 deg F, but what effect might the 35-40 deg F air temp have on the
paint as it goes from the can to the part?
Thoughts?
Thanks,
Phil
RV-8 empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fiberglass supplies |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
All,
Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality fiberglass/filler
supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would like to find someplace
local.
Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent websites that
I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has some good details
published, I would appreciate if they might forward the link. I am done
with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
Thanks,
Scott
RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
All,
Being an avid golfer/fisherman, anyone out there modify the baggage compartment
to store such things? I saw through the archives that Norman Hunger may have
done something similar (but couldn't find any pics). If anyone has any pictures
(to send offline) or a link to share it would be much appreciated...I would
be happy to post them on my website for all to see if need be.
Thanks,
Scott
RV7A Emp/Wings
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold weather priming |
Hi Phil,
I have been using Mar-Hide to prime various interior parts and pieces. I am
building a 6A in my garage which is heated but gets quite cool in the cooler
part of the winter. the one thing that I ran into was that the spay can
nozzle seems to plug to the point of uselessness if I try to spray with the
can at the garage's cool temps.
I do not like to spray indoors as the garage in the lower part of the house
as the fumes from the Mar-Hyde smell, are quite likely noxious and permeate
the house.
I now warm the Mar-Hyde spray can and parts to somthing above room
temperature (about 80 degrees) and spray outdoors. I then bring the painted
parts back into the garage to finish drying. This reduces the overspray in
the shop to zero, brings the stink down to acceptable levels and all but
eliminates the spattering and plugged nozzle syndrome.
I will experiment with a heat lamp in the outdoor paint shop (driveway) to
see if I can let the parts gas off longer outdoors and eliminate the paint
smell even more. Not many more parts for me to paint but worth finding out
about for future use.
I hope this helps,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil N" <pnewlon(at)toosan.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cold weather priming
>
> I am going to use Mar-Hyde 5111 to prime the parts of my -8. The air
> temp in my garage has been around the 35-40 deg F mark for several days
> now - I don't expect it to be any warmer than that until spring time
> (central Ohio).
>
> I ordered an infrared heater that will hang from the ceiling to warm a
> small area of the garage so I can do some priming. An infrared heater
> warms the objects under it, but does not warm the air (other than the
> heat radiating from the objects that are warmed, which will be minimal I
> think). I am a little concerned about the air temperature - the
> instructions on the can say the parts being painted need to be at least
> 65 deg F, but what effect might the 35-40 deg F air temp have on the
> paint as it goes from the can to the part?
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Phil
> RV-8 empennage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
If you live on the West Coast, try Tap Plastics. They have just about
everything you could want. I have been using their stuff for years. The
owner is a personal friend and long time patient.
Doc
http://www.tapplastics.com/fiberglass/
From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> All,
>
> Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality
fiberglass/filler supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would like
to find someplace local.
>
> Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent websites
that I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has some
good details published, I would appreciate if they might forward the link.
I am done with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
>
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | SoCAL RV RendezVous Report |
Our SoCAL RV RendezVous was a Success!
Aircraft Attending: 32 Homebuilts (30 RVs: RV-4, 6, 6A, 7, 9A, 8, 8A) + 1
Lancair 320 + 1 Thorp T-18) + 7-8 Factory (Ercoupe, Yankee, Cessnas, Pipers)
(approx. 40 aircraft total) From: As far north as Las Vegas, as far east as
Tucson, as far south as San Diego, and as far west as Oxnard.
People Attending: 100+ including 2 builders from Australia! U.S. Builders
and Dreamers came from: As far north as Sisters, Oregon, as far east as
Redlands, as far south as San Diego, and as far west as Santa Barbara.
Weather: Great! Partly Cloudy to Mostly Sunny, Ceilings 9,000 MSL+, Light
Winds, Temp: 72 degrees
Food Consumed: 6 dozen donuts/muffins, 50+ cups of coffee, 3 gallons of
orange juice, 110 super hot dogs + lots of chips, cookies, and soft drinks!
Thanks To: Chuck Barnett, Cable Airport Manager, for shaded seating and ramp
space; Mary Barnett for Cable newsletter advertising and accommodation
referral; EAA Chapter 448 (Fred and Gary) for lunch wagon (hot dogs, chips, drinks,
cookies) plus coffee, chairs, and tables; SoCAL Volunteers for donuts, muffins,
SoCAL Volunteers for auto parking (Tom, Dan, and Robin), aircraft
parking (Paul and Greg), transportation (Mark), signs (Robert and Bill),
organization (Gary, Gary, Fred, and Paul), and, most importantly, RV flyers,
builders, friends, and family for A GREAT TIME!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ted Gauthier" <TGauthier(at)comcast.net> |
I would be more than happy to e-mail you photos of how I did my baggage
compartment on my RV-6....I am happy with it and it serves my purpose.
I must caution you that you will have to pay close attention to your
weight and balance. Let me know if you have a high speed connection.
Ted Gauthier
Pontiac, Mi.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com
Subject: RV-List: Golf Clubs
All,
Being an avid golfer/fisherman, anyone out there modify the baggage
compartment to store such things? I saw through the archives that
Norman Hunger may have done something similar (but couldn't find any
pics). If anyone has any pictures (to send offline) or a link to share
it would be much appreciated...I would be happy to post them on my
website for all to see if need be.
Thanks,
Scott
RV7A Emp/Wings
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
Boat U.S sells the West System, probibly most marine stores do. In Canada
there is a knock off system called the "East System." In the back of Popular
Mechanics you can get the phone number for Clark Craft marine products in
Tonnawanda NY. They sell resin by the 55 gallon drum. Hope this helps.
Best regards
Craig Warner RV6 still building
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> All,
>
> Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality
fiberglass/filler supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would like
to find someplace local.
>
> Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent websites
that I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has some
good details published, I would appreciate if they might forward the link.
I am done with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
>
> Thanks,
> Scott
> RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
>
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles hits a million! |
Jim Bower wrote:
>
>Great!!!! Is it true that the EAA will not be supporting a YE program any
>more? I seem to have heard they won't be pushing it any more. YE rallys
>are a big part of what my chapter (32) does each year, and it's great
>community relations. What's the scoop?
>
>Jim Bower
>St. Louis, MO
>RV-6A Fuselage
>
As I understand it, since the goal has been met, it won't be the same,
but both EAA and Phillips will be supporting YE flights in the future.
It's been a very successful program ..... for both kids and pilots
...... for us to stop now. I expect that there will be some definitive
YE plans after the first of the year, so we'll just have to wait and see.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles hits a million! |
>
> Jim Bower wrote:
>
>
>>
>>Great!!!! Is it true that the EAA will not be supporting a YE program any
>>more? I seem to have heard they won't be pushing it any more. YE rallys
>>are a big part of what my chapter (32) does each year, and it's great
>>community relations. What's the scoop?
From the EAA web site:
"So does that mean that it's over and we stop flying Young Eagles? No.
The program will continue into the future because you have told us how
important it is to remain involved with young people, working together
to build aviation's future. Young Eagles has become a part of the very
fabric of EAA. Our mission is too significant to stop now."
"The Young Eagles program will continue to provide a high-quality,
satisfying experience for young people. In addition, your headquarters
staff will strive to provide the tools and support our Young Eagles
desire, as they explore all the world of aviation is able to offer them.
Young Eagles will build aviation's next century."
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Krhooper(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cold weather priming |
I find that a heat gun will do considerable help if the primer does not kick off
because of low temperature. Just take care not to concentrate the heat and blister
the finish.
Randy Hooper
Rv-8 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
Scott,
Try Googling (is that a word?!) to West System's website and seek regional
dealers there.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
> Boat U.S sells the West System, probibly most marine stores do. In Canada
> there is a knock off system called the "East System." In the back of
Popular
> Mechanics you can get the phone number for Clark Craft marine products in
> Tonnawanda NY. They sell resin by the 55 gallon drum. Hope this helps.
>
> Best regards
> Craig Warner RV6 still building
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality
> fiberglass/filler supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would
like
> to find someplace local.
> >
> > Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent
websites
> that I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has
some
> good details published, I would appreciate if they might forward the link.
> I am done with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott
> > RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
> >
> >
> > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
Thanks for the feedback. I found the West Systems site and there are three locations
that carry their products in town (Austin)!
Thanks again.
Scott
--- On Fri 11/14, Jim Jewell < jjewell(at)telus.net > wrote:
From: Jim Jewell [mailto: jjewell(at)telus.net]
Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:17:25 -0800
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
Scott,
Try Googling (is that a word?!) to West System's website and seek regional
dealers there.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
> Boat U.S sells the West System, probibly most marine stores do. In Canada
> there is a knock off system called the "East System." In the back of
Popular
> Mechanics you can get the phone number for Clark Craft marine products in
> Tonnawanda NY. They sell resin by the 55 gallon drum. Hope this helps.
>
> Best regards
> Craig Warner RV6 still building
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> > --> R
V-List message posted by: ""
> >
> >
> > All,
> >
> > Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality
> fiberglass/filler supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would
like
> to find someplace local.
> >
> > Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent
websites
> that I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has
some
> good details published, I would appreciate if they might forward the link.
> I am done with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Scott
> > RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
> >
> >
> > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> >
> >
>
>
!)
/subscription
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smoothweasel(at)juno.com |
Good Day to everyone!!! Today a follow RV builder was here to look at
my project and was concerned that I did NOT have provisions to vent my
heat muff when the heater is not in use. He seemed to think the exhaust
needed some kind of cooling. Is there anyone out there flying that
does not have these provisions? Thanx
Joel "Weasel" Graber
RV-4 trying to finish
Brooksville MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
Nope, 1000 hours of heat hasn't hurt mine...
RR
smoothweasel(at)juno.com wrote:
Good Day to everyone!!! Today a follow RV builder was here to look at
my project and was concerned that I did NOT have provisions to vent my
heat muff when the heater is not in use. He seemed to think the exhaust
needed some kind of cooling. Is there anyone out there flying that
does not have these provisions? Thanx
Joel "Weasel" Graber
RV-4 trying to finish
Brooksville MS
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: prop governor fitting |
Hobby,
These are the same fittings used for the mechanical fuel pump. The best deal going
is to get them from Wick's Aircraft. I just ordered some for myself and another
builder. the 45 degree fitting is part number 6802-6-6. Cost is $3.12
each. Check prices elsewhere and you'll find that this is a real deal.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A working on heat and ventilation systems
>
>I have a Lyc O360-A1A engine, and I am looking for the special flare fitting that
goes on the propellor governor adapter onto which you attach the steel line
to the front of the crankcase. The Lycoming part number is 74070.
>
>This part is described as "elbow, 3/8 flared tube x 9/16-18 str. thd., adj 45
degrees".
>
>If anyone has a spare fitting that they can part with, contact me directly.
>
>Thanks,
>
>Hobby Stevens
>hstevens(at)raycocpa.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: prop governor fitting |
Hi Hobby,
Another source would be a hydraulic hose supply shop. They carry the steel
fittings you want and they are good to at least 3000 PSI. If you have a
supplier near by it will be faster and most likely the same cost or less.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: prop governor fitting
>
> Hobby,
> These are the same fittings used for the mechanical fuel pump. The best
deal going is to get them from Wick's Aircraft. I just ordered some for
myself and another builder. the 45 degree fitting is part number 6802-6-6.
Cost is $3.12 each. Check prices elsewhere and you'll find that this is a
real deal.
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8A working on heat and ventilation systems
>
> >
> >I have a Lyc O360-A1A engine, and I am looking for the special flare
fitting that goes on the propellor governor adapter onto which you attach
the steel line to the front of the crankcase. The Lycoming part number is
74070.
> >
> >This part is described as "elbow, 3/8 flared tube x 9/16-18 str. thd.,
adj 45 degrees".
> >
> >If anyone has a spare fitting that they can part with, contact me
directly.
> >
> >Thanks,
> >
> >Hobby Stevens
> >hstevens(at)raycocpa.com
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
smoothweasel(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>Good Day to everyone!!! Today a follow RV builder was here to look at
>my project and was concerned that I did NOT have provisions to vent my
>heat muff when the heater is not in use. He seemed to think the exhaust
>needed some kind of cooling. Is there anyone out there flying that
>does not have these provisions? Thanx
>
>Joel "Weasel" Graber
>RV-4 trying to finish
>Brooksville MS
>
Take a look at a certified aircraft if you get the chance. My
experience says the cabin/windshield heat is a closed system with a
control to open the valve to the cockpit. No other vent if the heat is
not in use.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles hits a million! |
Well, I'm happy to hear that. YE is one of the programs that I really enjoy
participating in (ground crew, mostly). I have almost as much fun watching
those kids anticipating their first flight as they do, and can identify with
them when they get back.
We always do what we can to get all the kids flown who show up, even little
brothers, sisters, moms & dads. You just never know what kind of a fire you
can light. One of our members told about a young girl who was sort of a
disciplinary problem. She got a YE flight, and it gave her a purpose. As I
hear it, she is planning to go to one of the flight academys (like Parks or
Embry-Riddle). One of these days I might get on an airliner and find out
the captain got his/her first airplane ride from one of us!
>From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: EAA Young Eagles hits a million!
>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:12:01 -0600
>
>
> >
> > Jim Bower wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Great!!!! Is it true that the EAA will not be supporting a YE program
>any
> >>more? I seem to have heard they won't be pushing it any more. YE
>rallys
> >>are a big part of what my chapter (32) does each year, and it's great
> >>community relations. What's the scoop?
>
>
> From the EAA web site:
>
>"So does that mean that it's over and we stop flying Young Eagles? No.
>The program will continue into the future because you have told us how
>important it is to remain involved with young people, working together
>to build aviation's future. Young Eagles has become a part of the very
>fabric of EAA. Our mission is too significant to stop now."
>
>"The Young Eagles program will continue to provide a high-quality,
>satisfying experience for young people. In addition, your headquarters
>staff will strive to provide the tools and support our Young Eagles
>desire, as they explore all the world of aviation is able to offer them.
>Young Eagles will build aviation's next century."
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
Is your computer infected with a virus? Find out with a FREE computer virus
scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PLTDBEEZER(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Pilot Operating Handbook |
here is the rest of it
> pittenger32(at)msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Burnett" <smileyburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
Whatm type of fiber glass cloth should I buy since some of it will be used
around the canopy and will be in contact with the plexiglass?
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I found the West Systems site and there are
three locations that carry their products in town (Austin)!
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Scott
>
>
> --- On Fri 11/14, Jim Jewell < jjewell(at)telus.net > wrote:
> From: Jim Jewell [mailto: jjewell(at)telus.net]
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:17:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Try Googling (is that a word?!) to West System's website and seek regional
> dealers there.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> >
> > Boat U.S sells the West System, probibly most marine stores do. In
Canada
> > there is a knock off system called the "East System." In the back of
> Popular
> > Mechanics you can get the phone number for Clark Craft marine products
in
> > Tonnawanda NY. They sell resin by the 55 gallon drum. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Craig Warner RV6 still building
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
> >
> >
> > > --> R
> V-List message posted by: ""
> > >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality
> > fiberglass/filler supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would
> like
> > to find someplace local.
> > >
> > > Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent
> websites
> > that I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has
> some
> > good details published, I would appreciate if they might forward the
link.
> > I am done with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Scott
> > > RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
> > >
> > >
> > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> !)
> /subscription
>
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal |
I'd avoid Goof Off. I'd avoid any crap which contains secret ingredients
which may do harm. This includes 409, orange juice, rum, panther piss and
mouse milk.
Somewhere in the archives is a note about acrylic plastic (Plexiglass)
which is what the canopies are. The note is about the compatibility with
various solvents. I was unable to find it.
As I recall Cee Bailey aircraft plastics recommended mineral spirits.
Dana Overall visited a maker of canopies and reported:
"As for cleaning, they say don't use 409, acetone, window sprays,
concentrated alcohols or anything with ammonia. They say to remove "sticky
stuff" with mineral spirits, kerosene, white gas, naptha or isopropy
alcohol. After using any of the above, wash solvents off with Dawn
dishwashing liquid and water followed by a clear water rinse. "
The most powerful solvent known to man is okay too (water) and, given time
to work, may get the masking tape. Many solvents are more effective if
given time to work.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal |
Now what am I supposed to do with the gallon of panther piss I just bought?
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mashing Tape Removal
>
> I'd avoid Goof Off. I'd avoid any crap which contains secret ingredients
> which may do harm. This includes 409, orange juice, rum, panther piss and
> mouse milk.
>
> Somewhere in the archives is a note about acrylic plastic (Plexiglass)
> which is what the canopies are. The note is about the compatibility with
> various solvents. I was unable to find it.
>
> As I recall Cee Bailey aircraft plastics recommended mineral spirits.
>
> Dana Overall visited a maker of canopies and reported:
>
> "As for cleaning, they say don't use 409, acetone, window sprays,
> concentrated alcohols or anything with ammonia. They say to remove "sticky
> stuff" with mineral spirits, kerosene, white gas, naptha or isopropy
> alcohol. After using any of the above, wash solvents off with Dawn
> dishwashing liquid and water followed by a clear water rinse. "
>
> The most powerful solvent known to man is okay too (water) and, given time
> to work, may get the masking tape. Many solvents are more effective if
> given time to work.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
List:
I am currently fitting my windscreen to my 6A slider, and am running up against
a concern regarding its fit on the sides of the fuselage, just forward of the
rollbar.
On one side, I can get it to fit very well in this area by applying very little
pressure to the plexi. On the other side, however, I am lucky to get about a
1/4 inch gap with similar pressure. This is due in part to the fact that the
plexi on this side is approximately 3/16 inch thick as opposed to 1/8 inch on
the side that fits better. The plexi is obviously easier to flex on the thinner
side.
On earlier slider plans, there is a slot cut in the forward top fuselage skin that
allows the skin to be on the outside aft of the slot, and then on the inside
forward of the slot. My newer plans, supplied with my recently delivered finish
kit, do not show this slot.
Those that have gone before......If I cut that slot, do you think it will help
the fit if the windscreen here? I can see that it will possibly help to hold
the very aft edge of the windscreen, and the skin forward of the slot may have
a chance to bow out toward the windscreen.
I don't want to make that cut unless it is necessary and would help my situation.
Anyone else have the same problem?
Thanks
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
canopy stuff
Peshtigo, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy sample for those who wanted them. |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>If anybody has a good method of removing OLD masking tape residue, including
>any commercial products (i.e. "Duck Products Adhesive Remover"), I'm all
>ears. I haven't tried MEK yet because I don't have any scraps, and I don't
>have the gutterballs to do it on the actual piece...
>
>I was trying it with isopropyl and it's gonna take me the better part of 2
>days to get it all off. I really wish I had removed the tape right after I
>was done with it!!! Word of advice for those out there who might fall into
>the same dumb trap.
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
Place a rag over the residue and wet with kerosene. Keep it wet, and
soon you'll be able to just wipe it off. Doesn't hurt paint or plastic.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
Jim Andrews has an excellent tutorial on his website if you are interested. His
plane is immaculate.
http://rv8a.tripod.com/fiberglass.html
--- On Sat 11/15, Ron Burnett < smileyburnett(at)charter.net > wrote:
From: Ron Burnett [mailto: smileyburnett(at)charter.net]
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 11:24:29 -0600
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
Whatm type of fiber glass cloth should I buy since some of it will be used
around the canopy and will be in contact with the plexiglass?
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. I found the West Systems site and there are
three locations that carry their products in town (Austin)!
>
> Thanks again.
>
> Scott
>
>
> --- On Fri 11/14, Jim Jewell < jjewell(at)telus.net > wrote:
> From: Jim Jewell [mailto: jjewell(at)telus.net]
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2003 19:17:25 -0800
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> Scott,
>
> Try Googling (is that a word?!) to West System's website and seek regional
> dealers there.
>
> Jim in Kelowna
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Craig Warner" <cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
>
> >
> > Boat U.S sells the West System, probibly most marine stores do. In
Canada
> > there is a knock off system called the "East System." In the back of
> Popular
> > Mechanics you can get the phone number for Clark Craft marine products
in
> > Tonnawanda NY. They sell resin by the 55 gallon drum. Hope this helps.
> >
> > Best regards
> > Craig Warner RV6 still building
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
> >
> >
> > > --> R
> V-List message poste
d by: ""
> > >
> > >
> > > All,
> > >
> > > Does anyone know of a "big-city" local source for high quality
> > fiberglass/filler supplies? I know Spruce has good stuff, but I would
> like
> > to find someplace local.
> > >
> > > Also, I have seen some great tip (emp, wing) tutorials on recent
> websites
> > that I can no longer find (or remember where they were). If anyone has
> some
> > good details published, I would appreciate if they might forward the
link.
> > I am done with the tail and would like to finish the tips.
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Scott
> > > RV7A Hopefully on to wings...
> > >
> > >
> > > Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> > > The most personalized portal on the Web!
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
> !)
> /subscription
>
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
_-
======================================================================
========================================================
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
I read that caution somewhere in the instructions recently. The hot air
control box that I have is designed to dump the air from the heat muff
overboard if the heat inlet to the cabin is closed, to keep air moving
through the heat muff so it doesn't melt.
Terry
Good Day to everyone!!! Today a follow RV builder was here to look at
my project and was concerned that I did NOT have provisions to vent my
heat muff when the heater is not in use. He seemed to think the exhaust
needed some kind of cooling. Is there anyone out there flying that
does not have these provisions? Thanx
Joel "Weasel" Graber
RV-4 trying to finish
Brooksville MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
In a message dated 11/14/03 2:47:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
DrLeathers(at)822heal.com writes:
<< If you live on the West Coast, try Tap Plastics. >>
Just a word of caution re: Tap epoxy. I've been using their stuff on my -6
project and have been generally satisfied, but don't try thinning their epoxy
with acetone to coat the inside of Van's epoxy cowls as was suggested in a
recent RVator. The thinned Tap epoxy won't fully harden, at least it hasn't after
four months in my case. FWIW.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal |
I've used MEK with success. I know it sounds harsh, but I couldn't see any
ill effects. I had some primer overspray on my canopy and that took it
right off.
As with anything, test on an area you won't see first.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mashing Tape Removal
>
> I'd avoid Goof Off. I'd avoid any crap which contains secret ingredients
> which may do harm. This includes 409, orange juice, rum, panther piss and
> mouse milk.
>
> Somewhere in the archives is a note about acrylic plastic (Plexiglass)
> which is what the canopies are. The note is about the compatibility with
> various solvents. I was unable to find it.
>
> As I recall Cee Bailey aircraft plastics recommended mineral spirits.
>
> Dana Overall visited a maker of canopies and reported:
>
> "As for cleaning, they say don't use 409, acetone, window sprays,
> concentrated alcohols or anything with ammonia. They say to remove "sticky
> stuff" with mineral spirits, kerosene, white gas, naptha or isopropy
> alcohol. After using any of the above, wash solvents off with Dawn
> dishwashing liquid and water followed by a clear water rinse. "
>
> The most powerful solvent known to man is okay too (water) and, given time
> to work, may get the masking tape. Many solvents are more effective if
> given time to work.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Mashing Tape Removal
>
> I'd avoid Goof Off. I'd avoid any crap which contains secret ingredients
> which may do harm. This includes 409, orange juice, rum, panther piss and
> mouse milk.
>
> Somewhere in the archives is a note about acrylic plastic (Plexiglass)
> which is what the canopies are. The note is about the compatibility with
> various solvents. I was unable to find it.
>
> As I recall Cee Bailey aircraft plastics recommended mineral spirits.
>
> Dana Overall visited a maker of canopies and reported:
>
> "As for cleaning, they say don't use 409, acetone, window sprays,
> concentrated alcohols or anything with ammonia. They say to remove "sticky
> stuff" with mineral spirits, kerosene, white gas, naptha or isopropy
> alcohol. After using any of the above, wash solvents off with Dawn
> dishwashing liquid and water followed by a clear water rinse. "
>
> The most powerful solvent known to man is okay too (water) and, given time
> to work, may get the masking tape. Many solvents are more effective if
> given time to work.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
You should be able to rely on the West Systems supplier (or chosen product
name) for advice as to glass cloth etc.;
There are many types with many different weaves and coatings or not coated
to select from in accordance with applications. The supplier should know the
product, it's compatible materials, tool supplies and be able to give enough
information to help us novices get the job done right. My local area
supplier has been very helpful.
Happy sanding,(;-)
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Burnett" <smileyburnett(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fiberglass supplies
>
> Whatm type of fiber glass cloth should I buy since some of it will be used
> around the canopy and will be in contact with the plexiglass?
> ----- Original Message -----
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal |
>
>I've used MEK with success. I know it sounds harsh, but I couldn't see any
>ill effects. I had some primer overspray on my canopy and that took it
>right off.
Give it time.
>As with anything, test on an area you won't see first.
Does the test take a few years?
I am not writing from experience or even technical knowledge but from what
I have gleaned from the words of others. I wonder if a fast application
and removal might not be so harmful. However, MEK is short for methyl
ethyl ketone and acetone is a name for a near relative, ethyl ethyl ketone
which is a publicized no-no on acrylic. Maybe we should call it EEK.
Acrylic also does not get along with vinyl. Cee Bailey Plastics cautioned
that the two in proximity such as glareshield and windshield could cause
the acrylic to crack in as little as a year. Holding the two next to each
other for a few minutes proves nothing of course.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal |
>
>Now what am I supposed to do with the gallon of panther piss I just bought?
also known as penetrating oil. (watch out for horny panthers?)
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: windshield fit |
>
>I am currently fitting my windscreen to my 6A slider, and am running up
>against a concern regarding its fit on the sides of the fuselage, just
>forward of the rollbar.
This is one of the poorer design areas on the 6A. The aluminum goes under
and over the plexi and then the windshield top skirt that attaches to the
roll bar meets this area somehow. I have aluminum tape over the junction
now and figure on covering the area with fiberglass RSN.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass supplies |
HCRV6(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 11/14/03 2:47:16 PM Pacific Standard Time,
>DrLeathers(at)822heal.com writes:
>
><< If you live on the West Coast, try Tap Plastics. >>
>
>Just a word of caution re: Tap epoxy. I've been using their stuff on my -6
>project and have been generally satisfied, but don't try thinning their epoxy
>with acetone to coat the inside of Van's epoxy cowls as was suggested in a
>recent RVator. The thinned Tap epoxy won't fully harden, at least it hasn't after
>four months in my case. FWIW.
>
>Harry Crosby
>Pleasanton, California
>RV-6, firewall forward
>
The epoxy's can be thinned with alcohol.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JNice51355(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... |
In a message dated 11/15/03 8:39:25 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Knicholas2(at)aol.com writes:
> My lawyer(s) have "strongly" recommended that I
> not take kids and other people I don't know well flying due to liability.
Kim
I did not email you directly but through rv-list because it is important that
I promote my point of view. I feel sorry for you. What good is it to have
nice things if you can't share them with others for fear of liability? On the
other hand, one needs to have "faith" that if the worst thing happens, that
others will go to bat for you. I will continue to live with the possibility of
liability because I refuse to let the lawyers run my life.(even if most of the
politicians are lawyers) Besides that, I just plain enjoy showing young
people what aviation can do for you.
Jim Nice
453 Young Eagles so far
Arlington, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)access4less.net> |
For anyone still looking for Hartwell latches check on e-bay,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2441689686
This isn't the part number that was mentioned but may be a workable
alternative. Not a lot of time left on the item though.
Lyle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Ford
Subject: RV-List: hartwell latch
I'm looking for a Hartwell latch that has the round push lever instead
of the rectangular spring loaded one seen in ACS. There is a part
number on this broken one that I have of H601S-100-C356. Anyone know
of a source for this?
Dave Ford
RV6 finishing
=
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
Terry,
What make and model of heat box are you using? I'm in the market for one. I'd
like a unit with that feature, as I understand it extends the life of the heat
box, by reducing it's temperature.
Charlie Kuss
>
>I read that caution somewhere in the instructions recently. The hot air
>control box that I have is designed to dump the air from the heat muff
>overboard if the heat inlet to the cabin is closed, to keep air moving
>through the heat muff so it doesn't melt.
>
>Terry
>
>
>Good Day to everyone!!! Today a follow RV builder was here to look at
>my project and was concerned that I did NOT have provisions to vent my
>heat muff when the heater is not in use. He seemed to think the exhaust
>needed some kind of cooling. Is there anyone out there flying that
>does not have these provisions? Thanx
>
>Joel "Weasel" Graber
>RV-4 trying to finish
>Brooksville MS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy sample for those who |
wanted them.
> >If anybody has a good method of removing OLD masking tape residue,
including
> >any commercial products (i.e. "Duck Products Adhesive Remover"), I'm all
> >ears. I haven't tried MEK yet because I don't have any scraps, and I
don't
> >have the gutterballs to do it on the actual piece...
Take a look at the Lp aero plastics aircraft windshield manufacturer fact
sheet:
http://www.lpaero.com/CAREINS.pdf
Basically it says use 100% Mineral Spirits or Kerosene.
Blowing the canopy changes the properties of the acrylic sheet and makes it
much more prone to crazing. The products and joining methods we use for
sheet goods will not work on cast acrylic and may not be safe for sheet that
has been heat treated and stretched...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing |
Van's IO-360 FWF kit came with a breather tube, FF-705, which appears to be
2024T3 aluminum -- I'm not really sure of the alloy/temper. Anyway, as it
comes, it's 5/8" tubing with an expanded (to 3/4") flange on top to fit
inside the 3/4" ID rubber elbow they also provide in the kit.
Well, my IO-360 from Bart came with a smaller 5/8" OD breather fitting...so
I just got some 5/8" ID rubber hose, and decided to chop off the expanded
top of the aluminum tubing. My plan is to run the rubber tubing from the
breather fitting, down the firewall, clamped to the firewall with an adel
clamp, and then transition to alumimum tubing at the bottom where it nears
the exhaust. Great so far...
I need to make an "S" bend in the bottom of the aluminum tubing so it can
jog around the engine mount and point at the exhaust. Bending this tubing
is where my problem lies. I asked around and nobody had a 5/8" tubing
bender. But fortunately when I was at Harbor Freight today they had one for
$5.99. SCORE!
NOT. No matter how slowly I take it or how oily I make it, the thing puts
*kinks* on the inside of the tubing. It's no real surprise, since the tool
is set up with like a 3" bend *diameter*. Pretty aggressive.
That's all a long-winded way of leading up to my questions:
- Does anybody know if the FF-705 breather tube is 2024T3?
- Assuming it is, will 6061T6 tubing be more ductile?
- Any tips and tricks on bending this "large" tubing?
- At least one builder said he went with rubber hose all the way down to
within 1/4" of the exhaust and hasn't seen any heat/melting issues. That
seems crazy to me, and I assume a length of aluminum is definitely
prescribed here, but...sanity check?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Mashing Tape Removal from the manufacturer of our canopies |
I sent a private email to Dan, but as Hal stated, the manufacturer of our
canopies recommended kerosene or mineral spirits to clean off the sticky
stuff. In addition, they were animate in avoiding any "secret ingredient"
product on Walmart shelves because of unknown ingredients.
IMHO, don't try and reinvent the wheel.
A quote from my previous post from the manufacturer: As for cleaning, they
say don't use 409, acetone, window sprays, concentrated alcohols or anything
with ammonia. They say to remove "sticky
stuff" with mineral spirits, kerosene, white gas, naptha or isopropy
alcohol. After using any of the above, wash solvents off with Dawn
dishwashing liquid and water followed by a clear water rinse. "
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Crave some Miles Davis or Grateful Dead? Your old favorites are always
playing on MSN Radio Plus. Trial month free!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>That's all a long-winded way of leading up to my questions:
>
>- Does anybody know if the FF-705 breather tube is 2024T3?
>
>- Assuming it is, will 6061T6 tubing be more ductile?
>
>- Any tips and tricks on bending this "large" tubing?
>
Yes. Fill the tube with sugar, and pack it in the tube real good. Then
bend the tube. This will help alleviate the kink in the tube. In the
breather tube, a little kink shouldn't be a problem though. Just isn't
the sign of a perfectionist.
Linn
>- At least one builder said he went with rubber hose all the way down to
>within 1/4" of the exhaust and hasn't seen any heat/melting issues. That
>seems crazy to me, and I assume a length of aluminum is definitely
>prescribed here, but...sanity check?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis and Stephanie Smith" <famflier(at)centurytel.net> |
| Subject: | Empennage manual update Page 8-7 |
I have an update to the empennage manual that hasn't been made widely
available as yet, in case anyone wants it. I have it saved in a .jpeg
(picture) and .pdf (Adobe Acrobat) format. I'll try to attach them here,
but if you can't get them just email me and i will email it to you.
Dennis Smith
#97
Ready to rivet skin on vert. stab.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing |
Dan,
This isn't really an answer to your question but I have been going through
the same problem. The firewall forward drawings for my RV-8A show that tube
mounted against the firewall and a piece of rubber hose with a 90degree bend
in it connecting it to the fitting on my IO-360 from Bart. Problem is I
can't figure out any way to make the bends end up with the tube running down
the firewall. I kinked my first one but thinking it could only cost $5 or
so, I ordered another. It was about $30. I would have lived with the
creases in it for that.
The RV-8 that I took firewall forward photos of last week (after a ride in
it. Thanks Mike!) had hose all the way. The tube would be lighter if I
could figure out how to make it fit.
Terry
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: RV-List: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing
Van's IO-360 FWF kit came with a breather tube, FF-705, which appears to be
2024T3 aluminum -- I'm not really sure of the alloy/temper. Anyway, as it
comes, it's 5/8" tubing with an expanded (to 3/4") flange on top to fit
inside the 3/4" ID rubber elbow they also provide in the kit.
Well, my IO-360 from Bart came with a smaller 5/8" OD breather fitting...so
I just got some 5/8" ID rubber hose, and decided to chop off the expanded
top of the aluminum tubing. My plan is to run the rubber tubing from the
breather fitting, down the firewall, clamped to the firewall with an adel
clamp, and then transition to alumimum tubing at the bottom where it nears
the exhaust. Great so far...
I need to make an "S" bend in the bottom of the aluminum tubing so it can
jog around the engine mount and point at the exhaust. Bending this tubing
is where my problem lies. I asked around and nobody had a 5/8" tubing
bender. But fortunately when I was at Harbor Freight today they had one for
$5.99. SCORE!
NOT. No matter how slowly I take it or how oily I make it, the thing puts
*kinks* on the inside of the tubing. It's no real surprise, since the tool
is set up with like a 3" bend *diameter*. Pretty aggressive.
That's all a long-winded way of leading up to my questions:
- Does anybody know if the FF-705 breather tube is 2024T3?
- Assuming it is, will 6061T6 tubing be more ductile?
- Any tips and tricks on bending this "large" tubing?
- At least one builder said he went with rubber hose all the way down to
within 1/4" of the exhaust and hasn't seen any heat/melting issues. That
seems crazy to me, and I assume a length of aluminum is definitely
prescribed here, but...sanity check?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dennis and Stephanie Smith" <famflier(at)centurytel.net> |
Sorry fellows, I forgot to say that the updates I have are for the RV-10.
Dennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal |
On the subject of caring for canopies I recommend a post to this list
from Leo Davies on Feb 10,1999.
Go check the archives for this post, subject was 'canopies and solvents
and fibreglass and polyester and'.
Message Number 51260
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rob ray <smokyray(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing |
fyi
Note: forwarded message attached.
---------------------------------
Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 09:48:34 -0600
From: arvil(at)bellsouth.net
Subject: Re: Fwd: RV-List: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing
6061-T6 will bend a lot easier , you can also use
a peace of 5/8'' copper tubing from the hardware
store, it bends real easy ! if you cant find a
softer Alum. tubing !
Arvil
rob ray wrote:
>
>
> Note: forwarded message attached.
> -------------------------------------------------
> AddressGuard
> --------------------------------------------
>
> S
> bject: RV-List: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing
>
> Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0800
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> To:
>
>
>
> Van's IO-360 FWF kit came with a breather tube,
> FF-705, which appears to be
> 2024T3 aluminum -- I'm not really sure of the
> alloy/temper. Anyway, as it
> comes, it's 5/8" tubing with an expanded (to
> 3/4") flange on top to fit
> inside the 3/4" ID rubber elbow they also
> provide in the kit.
>
> Well, my IO-360 from Bart came with a smaller
> 5/8" OD breather fitting...so
> I just got some 5/8" ID rubber hose, and decided
> to chop off the expanded
> top of the aluminum tubing. My plan is to run
> the rubber tubing from the
> breather fitting, down the firewall, clamped to
> the firewall with an adel
> clamp, and then transition to alumimum tubing at
> the bottom where it nears
> the exhaust. Great so far...
>
> I need to make an "S" bend in the bottom of the
> aluminum tubing so it can
> jog around the engine mount and point at the
> exhaust. Bending this tubing
> is where my problem lies. I asked around and
> nobody had a 5/8" tubing
> bender. But fortunately when I was at Harbor
> Freight today they had one for
> $5.99. SCORE!
>
> NOT. No matter how slowly I take it or how oily
> I make it, the thing puts
> *kinks* on the inside of the tubing. It's no
> real surprise, since the tool
> is set up with like a 3" bend *diameter*.
> Pretty aggressive.
>
> That's all a long-winded way of leading up to my
> questions:
>
> - Does anybody know if the FF-705 breather tube
> is 2024T3?
>
> - Assuming it is, will 6061T6 tubing be more
> ductile?
>
> - Any tips and tricks on bending this "large"
> tubing?
>
> - At least one builder said he went with rubber
> hose all the way down to
> within 1/4" of the exhaust and hasn't seen any
> heat/melting issues. That
> seems crazy to me, and I assume a length of
> aluminum is definitely
> prescribed here, but...sanity check?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
> Month --
> Click on the
> about this
> your generous
> Contributions
> ads or any other
> Forums.
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
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> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
6061-T6 will bend a lot easier , you can also use a peace of 5/8''
copper tubing from the hardware store, it bends real easy ! if you cant
find a softer Alum. tubing !
Arvil
rob ray wrote:
Note: forwarded message attached.
Subject: RV-List: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing
Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2003 18:13:03 -0800
<NOBR>From: "Dan Checkoway" dan(at)rvproject.com></NOBR>
Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com>
Van's IO-360 FWF kit came with a breather tube, FF-705, which appears to be
2024T3 aluminum -- I'm not really sure of the alloy/temper. Anyway, as it
comes, it's 5/8" tubing with an expanded (to 3/4") flange on top to fit
inside the 3/4" ID rubber elbow they also provide in the kit.
Well, my IO-360 from Bart came with a smaller 5/8" OD breather fitting...so
I just got some 5/8" ID rubber hose, and decided to chop off the expanded
top of the aluminum tubing. My plan is to run the rubber tubing from the
breather fitting, down the firewall, clamped to the firewall with an adel
clamp, and then transition to alumimum tubing at the bottom where it nears
the exhaust. Great so far...
I need to make an "S" bend in the bottom of the aluminum tubing so it can
jog around the engine mount and point at the exhaust. Bending this tubing
is where my problem lies. I asked around and nobody had a 5/8" tubing
bender. But fortunately when I was at Harbor Freight today they had one for
$5.99. SCORE!
NOT. No matter how slowly I take it or how oily I make it, the thing puts
*kinks* on the inside of the tubing. It's no real surprise, since the tool
is set up with like a 3" bend *diameter*. Pretty aggressive.
That's all a long-winded way of leading up to my questions:
- Does anybody know if the FF-705 breather tube is 2024T3?
- Assuming it is, will 6061T6 tubing be more ductile?
- Any tips and tricks on bending this "large" tubing?
- At least one builder said he went with rubber hose all the way down to
within 1/4" of the exhaust and hasn't seen any heat/melting issues. That
seems crazy to me, and I assume a length of aluminum is definitely
prescribed here, but...sanity check?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing |
I've seen pre-bend pipes in various diameters at the local autoparts
shop. maybe that's a route to take, they were made of thin steel tubing
if I remember right.
conversly a quick dash to a junkyard may yield a pre-bent pipe suitable
for your purposes.
Gert
Terry Watson wrote:
>
> Dan,
>
> This isn't really an answer to your question but I have been going through
> the same problem. The firewall forward drawings for my RV-8A show that tube
> mounted against the firewall and a piece of rubber hose with a 90degree bend
> in it connecting it to the fitting on my IO-360 from Bart. Problem is I
> can't figure out any way to make the bends end up with the tube running down
> the firewall. I kinked my first one but thinking it could only cost $5 or
> so, I ordered another. It was about $30. I would have lived with the
> creases in it for that.
>
> The RV-8 that I took firewall forward photos of last week (after a ride in
> it. Thanks Mike!) had hose all the way. The tube would be lighter if I
> could figure out how to make it fit.
>
> Terry
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing
>
>
> Van's IO-360 FWF kit came with a breather tube, FF-705, which appears to be
> 2024T3 aluminum -- I'm not really sure of the alloy/temper. Anyway, as it
> comes, it's 5/8" tubing with an expanded (to 3/4") flange on top to fit
> inside the 3/4" ID rubber elbow they also provide in the kit.
>
> Well, my IO-360 from Bart came with a smaller 5/8" OD breather fitting...so
> I just got some 5/8" ID rubber hose, and decided to chop off the expanded
> top of the aluminum tubing. My plan is to run the rubber tubing from the
> breather fitting, down the firewall, clamped to the firewall with an adel
> clamp, and then transition to alumimum tubing at the bottom where it nears
> the exhaust. Great so far...
>
> I need to make an "S" bend in the bottom of the aluminum tubing so it can
> jog around the engine mount and point at the exhaust. Bending this tubing
> is where my problem lies. I asked around and nobody had a 5/8" tubing
> bender. But fortunately when I was at Harbor Freight today they had one for
> $5.99. SCORE!
>
> NOT. No matter how slowly I take it or how oily I make it, the thing puts
> *kinks* on the inside of the tubing. It's no real surprise, since the tool
> is set up with like a 3" bend *diameter*. Pretty aggressive.
>
> That's all a long-winded way of leading up to my questions:
>
> - Does anybody know if the FF-705 breather tube is 2024T3?
>
> - Assuming it is, will 6061T6 tubing be more ductile?
>
> - Any tips and tricks on bending this "large" tubing?
>
> - At least one builder said he went with rubber hose all the way down to
> within 1/4" of the exhaust and hasn't seen any heat/melting issues. That
> seems crazy to me, and I assume a length of aluminum is definitely
> prescribed here, but...sanity check?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | rv-list bending tubing |
| From: | smoothweasel(at)juno.com |
I don't know how "sharp" of a bend you are trying to make but I have had
success by using an old v-belt pulley mounted in a vise. Take the tube
and bend it in the groove of the pulley. The edges of the tube will
contact the pulley instead of the bottom preventing a kink. Different
size pulleys for different radius bends.
Joel "Weasel" Graber
rv-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: bending 5/8" aluminum breather tubing |
HI- To bend large soft tubing fill it with fine sand-put a plug in each
end-clamp the plugs-bend it around a large radius -2-3-4-inch pvc-pipe works-TOM
Tom Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
President EAA Chapter 1097
wfact01(at)aol.com
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
Tel: 203-266-5300
Fax: 202-266-5140
EAA Technical/Flight Advisor
RV-8 540 LYC (Engine Runs, Taxi-Tests)
S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Empennage manual update Page 8-7 |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Builders Insurance Coverage |
I purchased builder's coverage through Nation Air Insurance Agencies, Inc. about
one year ago. It made sense because I picked up the QB kit from Van's factory.
I just received a letter saying there's been a slight increase in premium
(25% is slight?), that'll make it $400 for one year to cover project (kit cost
to date $21K). The coverage is under Phoenix Aviation (Vans Program). Can
anyone point me towards a more competitive premium?
John Burns, 7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Metalplane(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Mashing Tape Removal from the manufacturer of our canopies |
I was surprised to hear that people were still using "Mashing" tape. I don't
get to the list very often. If you are planning to use tape to hold down
rivets for "back riveting", try this.
I've been flying my RV-6 (N130BN) for three years now. There's nothing like
it. When I was building, I tried all kinds of, what I see called here as
"mashing" tape. None worked very well. "Kapton" tape used on electronics seemed
to
work the best for me, but it too left a residue on the surface of the
aluminium.
I settled on a technique you might want to try. It leaves no residue, and
gives the best rivet set I've seen.
Tape the rivets down with a weakly sticky tape, but it should have a fairly
good tensile strength. The Kapton worked well for this, but the green masking
tape body shops use for "pin striping" worked best. I got a couple of roles
from a local body shop. It had past it's useful shelflife date and they were
throwing it out...lucky me. The narrower the tape the better. I used 1/4 inch.
When taping down the rivets to be set, run the tape out about 6 inched beyond
the end of the work. Now cut some strips of stiff paper or mylar about twice
as long as the tape you cut. About one inch wide worked ok. Fold the paper or
mylar strip in half. At the long end of the tape, you placed on the rivets,
tape down the folded end and let it one side flop back over the rivets.
Put the work over the bucking plate, and hold it down "lightly". Now pull the
paper strip out from under the work. It will pull the tape off the rivets and
stick it to the back half of the paper strip, the rivets are neatly in place
and set up "metal to metal" against the bucking plate. It works great!.
I was lucky enough to have a 20" by 32" slab of 3/8" stainless I polished,
that let me rivet 3/4 of each elevator at a time. I set up 6 or 7 lines of
rivets at a time, pulled out the strips and tape, and bang-bang-bang the rivets
were set. There was no messy "mashing tape" residue to clean since it was removed
befor the riveting.
As an added bonus, the rivets are set very tightly in the dinple. Even the
thinest tapes are soft. They let the rivet "mash" back down a little away from
the surface. It may look fine now, but you may see the difference when
painting.
Give it a try. It's easy with "NO" cleanup!
Bob Neuner
RV6
N130BN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... |
| From: | Bruce Green <mailindex(at)juno.com> |
writes:
>
> Bryan;
> Responsibility, it's just something we have to deal with as
> aviators.
>
> I for one think Shakespear was right.
*********************************************************************
"Ironically, the rallying cry of the lawyer bashers has become
Shakespeare's quote from Henry VI: "THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET'S KILL
ALL THE LAWYERS."
Those who use this phrase pejoratively against lawyers are as miserably
misguided about their Shakespeare as they are about the judicial system
which they disdain so freely.
Even a cursory reading of the context in which the lawyer killing
statement is made in King Henry VI, Part II, (Act IV), Scene 2, reveals
that Shakespeare was paying great and deserved homage to our venerable
profession as the front line defenders of democracy.
The accolade is spoken by Dick the Butcher, a follower of anarchist Jack
Cade, whom Shakespeare depicts as "the head of an army of rabble and a
demagogue pandering to the ignorant," who sought to overthrow the
government. Shakespeare's acknowledgment that the first thing any
potential tyrant must do to eliminate freedom is to "kill all the
lawyers" is, indeed, a classic and well-deserved compliment to our
distinguished profession."
So Rob Ray, now that you have demonstrated your ignorance of Shakespear,
do you still think he was right?
Bruce Green
Eagle N110GM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... |
Could dis be day zha view all over again, Dick the Butcher played by Katie C
and Jack Cade by Hillery.
Ole Wille the Shake wood be turnin' over if he saw the various ways we spel
his name. 8*) KABONG
The accolade is spoken by Dick the Butcher, a follower of anarchist Jack
Cade, whom Shakespeare depicts as "the head of an army of rabble and a
demagogue pandering to the ignorant," who sought to overthrow the
government.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Green" <mailindex(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern....
> > I for one think Shakespear was right.
> *********************************************************************
> "Ironically, the rallying cry of the lawyer bashers has become
> Shakespeare's quote from Henry VI: "THE FIRST THING WE DO, LET'S KILL
> ALL THE LAWYERS."
Shakespeare>
> So Rob Ray, now that you have demonstrated your ignorance of Shakespear,
> do you still think he was right?
>
> Bruce Green
> Eagle N110GM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... |
Thanks Bruce Green .. ..that phrase has been quoted out of context so often
it has become a folk myth it seems.
Thanks.
John at Salida
Attorney at Law
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gary B. Jacobs" <gblayne(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming model codes |
Does anyone know where I could obtain a listing of the model code designations
for the different models of Lycoming engines?
Gary & Marianne Jacobs
gblayne(at)mchsi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: fuselage longeron & skin overhang at aft bulkhead |
Thank you to all that replied on and off list.
To record for the archives, the consensus answer was to notch/trim the main
longerons enough to fit the vertical stab but wait to trim the overhanging
skin until have rudder on and then trim just enough to allow full rudder
travel.
Chris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: fuselage longeron & skin overhang at aft bulkhead
>
> In building the fuselage (RV-6A), I left the skin and main longeron
extended
> past the tail F-612 bulkhead, planning to trim as needed when I fit the
vert
> & horiz stabs. Now that the fuselage is out of the jig and sitting on
> sawhorses, I see that I cannot get the vertical stab flush with the aft
> bulkhead until after trimming the main longerons back.
>
> My question is, should I trim everything (skins too) right up flush with
> that last bulkhead, or should there be some skin extending back a little
> past the F-612? Any close up photos of the attached tail section on any
of
> your web sites?
>
> Thanks for your help!
>
> Chris Hand
> RV-6A, #23559
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming model codes |
Van's preview plans have such a list.
Gary B. Jacobs wrote:
>
>Does anyone know where I could obtain a listing of the model code designations
for the different models of Lycoming engines?
>
>Gary & Marianne Jacobs
>gblayne(at)mchsi.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance Coverage |
John
I am building a " slow build " RV-9A and currently have a $ 17,500 insured
value with Avemco. The annual premium is
$ 284. On a straight line increase basis, this would imply about a $ 340
premium for your $ 21,000 valuation. This is the only data point that I can
offer.
Dean Van Winkle
Fuselage/Finish
N799DE (reserved)
----- Original Message -----
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Builders Insurance Coverage
>
> I purchased builder's coverage through Nation Air Insurance Agencies, Inc.
about one year ago. It made sense because I picked up the QB kit from Van's
factory. I just received a letter saying there's been a slight increase in
premium (25% is slight?), that'll make it $400 for one year to cover project
(kit cost to date $21K). The coverage is under Phoenix Aviation (Vans
Program). Can anyone point me towards a more competitive premium?
>
> John Burns, 7A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lyle Peterson" <lyleap(at)access4less.net> |
| Subject: | Rivets and rivet guns, etc. |
I am in the process of setting up to start on an RV6. It is a very slow
build kit. I would appreciate some advice on rivet tools.
What rivet gun seems to be the best all around as far as versatility and
longevity? Which seems to have the best trigger? Is a 1X enough? Is
3X too much?
What rivet sets are the most useful and which are useful in some limited
uses? Long sets, offset sets, C frame sets, swivel sets, cushioned
sets. Any other accessory that any of you found useful or would have
liked to have to make setting a particular rivet easier?
What size yokes are useful or needed in some locations on a pneumatic
rivet squeezer or on a hand rivet squeezer?
I apologize if you get several copies of this message. I am subscribed
to several RV lists.
Thank all of you for the information and encouragement.
Lyle Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
Listers
I'm planning on mounting my GPS antenna on a firewall forward bracket just under
the top surface of the cowl, rather than on the scuttle under the windscreen
or externally. This seems to be a favoured place adopted by many builders. My
question is will this location work satisfactorily with the standard antenna
supplied with a Garmin 196 or is this only appropriate with a powered active
unit. Thanks for your input.
Neil Henderson RV9A nr Aylesbury UK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil N" <pnewlon(at)toosan.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming model codes |
Here is Lycoming's list.
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/productSales/engineSpecifications/SSP401
.pdf
Phil
> >Does anyone know where I could obtain a listing of the model code
> >designations for the different models of Lycoming engines?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | EAA Young Eagles paranoid concern.... |
Hi all -
Just a quick reminder - although there must be righteous lawyers somewhere, the
ambulance chasers we are all concerned with will by definition go for the deep
pockets. As long as Mother OSH supports YE, that's where they'll focus. The
insurance they require pilots to carry most likely covers their deductibles.
Of course, the other side of that coin is that if you ensure that you get down
safely, your passengers will all be fine...
Glen Matejcek
RV-8, ordering a new panel blank as soon as Van's opens...
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rivets and rivet guns, etc. |
Lyle Peterson wrote:
>I apologize if you get several copies of this message. I am subscribed
>to several RV lists.
>
Ah, my golden opportunity. Why do you subscribe to multiple lists. Let
me answer that. Because you want to get the best/most advice you can.
Same reason I do. I'm presently on 5 lists. Let's say you are too.
That's 5 posts that show up in my inbox. And then 5 really knowlegeable
folks answer on each list. We're up to 30. Then a few (like this one)
that don't really answer your question. 35. All from one post. Yeah,
you get the picture ..... and you're struggling too! Now, I can always
delete some of the replies .... but which ones? And what about the
replies that folks didn't change the subject on??? I feel a migraine
coming on! What to do, what to do. I don't have an real good answer,
folks, but I'm inundated with emails, and I haven't even ordered my -10
kit yet!!! But I do have a suggestion: Send general questions to the
RV-LIST (like your rivet gun question .... which I want to know about
too, and what's the difference between 1X and 3X), and -10 specific
questions to the -10 list. That should cut down on the number of
messages somewhat. That's what I try to do.
Thanks for letting me get this off my chest!!!
>Thank all of you for the information and encouragement.
>
Man, do we need and value that! Dotto!
Linn
>
>
>Lyle Peterson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Builders Insurance Coverage |
John,
The EAA's program also has a $400 minimum premium. But, like Avemco, they
charge you for any increase. They basically use a 1% rate ($50,000 of
coverage costs $500 per year).
Yes, AVEMCO can be slightly less expensive, but when your value gets over
$30K or so, their premium will certainly go over $400 per year.
Our program offers flexibility (and good value) by allowing the value to
range from a minimum (set by you) to a maximum (also set by you). If the
maximum value is set at or near the companies default of $75K then the
minimum premium applies. Going over that $75K default maximum can cost
slightly more than the $400 minimum premium.
The other companies mostly have minimum premiums of $500 or higher.
Unfortunately, the minimum premium was changed this year to match their
company wide minimum. They had originally set that at $300 per year for
Van's customers, realized they couldn't afford to do that, and raised it to
$400 in two $50 increments over the last couple of years.
Please let me know if you have any other questions.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
Pleasure and Business Branch
Please note that any correspondence by email from you will not constitute
you having contacted NationAir. If you have urgent questions, need to bind
coverage, or need other service immediately please call our office toll free
at 877 475 5860 during normal business hours and speak to a representative
of NationAir.
----- Original Message -----
From: "jgburns" <jgburns(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Builders Insurance Coverage
I purchased builder's coverage through Nation Air Insurance Agencies, Inc.
about one year ago. It made sense because I picked up the QB kit from Van's
factory. I just received a letter saying there's been a slight increase in
premium (25% is slight?), that'll make it $400 for one year to cover project
(kit cost to date $21K). The coverage is under Phoenix Aviation (Vans
Program). Can anyone point me towards a more competitive premium?
John Burns, 7A
November 10, 2003 - November 17, 2003
RV-Archive.digest.vol-om