RV-Archive.digest.vol-oo
November 24, 2003 - December 04, 2003
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tips (very short) |
In a message dated 11/23/2003 9:35:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
Jim,
Thanks for the great info. I'm curious if you happen to have any sort of
side-by-side photos or diagrams that might highlight the difference that
you're talking about between Van's sheared tips (with the joggle you
mentioned) and the ideal tips (with the straight line vortex cutter).
If not, no sweat, but I'd like to gather as much info on this as possible
before I decide one way or the other.
Thanks!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Normally, the parting line edge on Van's sheared wingtip is sanded into a
nice smooth rounded edge.
Maybe someone on this list with composite expertise can suggest an easy way
to create the sharp edge on Van's wingtip along the parting line.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
Does the switch have a washer with a little tab on it? If so, this is
used for anti-rotation, and a round hole is called for. You must drill
another, smaller hole above the primary hole for the tab to fit into.
The small hole is drilled from behind, and does not need to penetrate
the front of the panel.
I wish I had a picture to explain this better.
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing
Milwaukee WI
Nine Builder wrote:
>
>Is there a tool or technique for making correctly sized and shaped holes for the
W58 Series Switch/Breakers? The threads that go through the panel have a nominal
diameter of 0.46" with a flat spot on one side. I presume the flat spot
is to keep the breaker from rotating in its panel hole. Any help would be much
appreciated.
>Leland in Pleasanton
>RV9A
>New Lycoming from Van's arriving next week
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn S. Gordon" <ggordon(at)psiatms.com> |
| Subject: | Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
Leland,
You would need a metal punch to get the proper "hole with flats" shape.
On my panel I placed the breakers close to each other so that each breaker
is prevented from rotating by the adjacent breaker.
-Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
In addition to that, most rows of breakers have a brass/copper buss bar
that connects all the top or bottom terminals together.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glenn S. Gordon
Subject: RE: RV-List: Panel switch/breaker panel holes
Leland,
You would need a metal punch to get the proper "hole with flats" shape.
On my panel I placed the breakers close to each other so that each
breaker
is prevented from rotating by the adjacent breaker.
-Glenn
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Lycoming CD on Engines |
I notice that Lycoming through its distributors sells a CD for $199 that
includes many needed facts published on their engines. The price is a bit
high but it includes the operators, overhaul, and parts plus other info in a
small concise CD. It has a search capability.
If anyone has used this, I'd be interested in knowing how they like it and
if they think it is a good value/purchase.
reference:
http://www.lycoming.textron.com/main.jsp?bodyPage=support/publications/technicalPublications/1.html
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
Consider also that you have more hip, shoulder, and elbow room in a RV-8/8A
than in the side-by-side RV's.
Vince Welch
>From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Which RV?
>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:28:36 -0600
>
>
>To those contemplating building an RV:
>
>Obviously, there is no "right" model of RV to choose. Each has their
>own pluses and minuses. Fortunately, Van has really diminished the
>minuses on all RV models. Mostly, it simply comes down to which one
>catches your fancy. However, I wanted to share my experience with the
>side by side RV (mine is a 6A) as it relates to model type. I'm not
>going to get into the practical differences between trike and
>taildragger, they have been flogged to death on this list. I also do
>not have RV experience in fore/aft arrangements.
>
>Regarding passengers: I am probably unique in that I rarely fly alone,
>maybe 20% of the time. One of the most enjoyable things for me with my
>plane is sharing it, whether it be with my family or others. Having
>side by side seating is quite nice for this. Would this be diminished
>with a fore/aft setup? I think so. Non pilot passengers seem to really
>like asking and learning about the various instruments on the panel.
>Also, I would generally not take passengers in a fore/aft arrangement
>with the rear seat stick in place, whereas I don't mind doing that in
>the side by side.
>
>Regarding long cross country trips: Last week I flew from southern
>Florida to Minneapolis in one day, three hops, headwinds, a total of 9.4
>hours on the hobbs. I was alone for this trip, but it was really nice
>to be able to set charts and the cooler on the seat next to me. I took
>the passenger control stick out for this trip. Additionally, it was
>nice to be able to move my legs around to the right side occasionally.
>
>Flight instruction: I am working (slowly, still!!) on an instrument
>rating in my plane. This would really not be possible with a tandem
>arrangment.
>
>Formation flying: Here is a bit of a disadvantage for the side by side.
>I prefer not to fly formation to the left of someone. One needs to
>leave a little more margin (specifically, stay lower relative to the
>lead) if flying on the left of lead in a side by side.
>
>Just some thoughts from a side by sider!
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
>www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
Say goodbye to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet
connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Strobes |
FYI...
I will soon have a power supply for sale for experimental aircraft for about
half the cost of the Whelen unit... I contracted Nova to produce the PS for
me which will be equal to or better than the whelen in performance...
I should have more info on this and other products on my site soon...
-Bill VonDane
www.creativair.com
www.vondane.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Strobes
Hi Norman,
Thanks for your detailed post. I'd like you to tell me if my research on
this subject is in error. I had followed much of the various threads
relating to the various strobe systems available. What I found was as
follows.
The Aeroflash systems available are rated to the older, lower candlepower
standards set back before the 1980s. The newer systems have about 4 times
the power ( 100 vs 400 candlepower I believe) that this older system has.
The Nova power supplies available from STROBES N' MORE come in a variety of
styles and powers. I chose their most powerful (X-Pak 904 model 90 watt)
single unit power supply. See
http://www.strobe.com/pdfs/xpak904-install.pdf
I intend to use this unit to power 3 strobes on my 8A. I purchased the
complete package below. This comes with 32 watt strobe heads. See
http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/18/1829.htm?959
The switch was not included when I purchased my unit. It was on sale then
for $250.00
Strobes N' More lists a similar Whelen unit. Unfortunately, they do not
supply as much info for this unit. It also appears that this Whelen unit is
not an aviation specific power supply. Whelen's site recommends their model
HDACF for use with a 2 strobe system on our aircraft. They recommend the use
of 2 model A490ATSC power supplies for use on 3 strobe systems. I suspect
that the number of model A490ATSC power supplies to be used with a 3 lamp
system is a typographical error. I say this because Page 10 of their catalog
states that these units are designed to power one strobe head. (I could be
wrong on this) Page 10 of their catalog states that the model HDACF with
power 1, 2 or 3 strobe heads. So comparing the Nova X-Pak 904 to the Whelen
HDACF would be more of an "apples to apples" comparison.
See
http://www.whelen.com/nondynmc/Aviation/homebuilt.htm
and
http://www.whelen.com/pb/11015.htm
From this I discern that the Nova unit will supply 80 joules of power. (See
first link listed above) This compares to the Whelen's 84 joules. (See the
third link listed above Page 10) The Whelen has a slight edge here, but not
a large one. I suspect that most of us could not tell the difference with
the naked eye. The Whelen unit is also somewhat more efficient in it's use
of power. The Nova unit is rated at 8.5 amps at 12.8 volts (8.5 X 12.8 108.8 watts).
The Whelen HDACF is rated at 7 amps at 14 volts (7 X 14 = 98
watts)
Is the Whelen unit waterproof? I seem to remember reading somewhere that it
was, but I can not locate the reference now. The Nova unit is not
waterproof, so this must be taken into account when mounting it. The Whelen
unit may have an advantage here.
One point I will make in support of Norman's statements below, is that the
Strobes N' More strobe heads are supplied bare. Whelen supplies their units
with a special lens to focus the light output from their heads. This is an
important feature and should not be ignored. Luckily, users of the non
Whelen units can purchase the proper lens from Vans accessory catalog. They
are part number LN W1284-C . They cost $12.50 each and can be found on Vans
site at:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1069691959-52-651&browse=lighting&product=strobe_parts
A stamped steel lens retainer will also be needed to retain the lens to the
strobe heads. Vans catalog does not list these items.
Am I missing anything here Norman? Please advise as to any technical details
I have missed. Good information is the key to good purchasing decisions. I
agree with Norman regarding the new HID head lamps. I'll be prowling the
local wrecking yards soon for the PAR 35 style (4.5" round) HID head lamps.
The current new prices for these is to rich for my blood. I expect that the
cost of these units will decline as they become more plentiful and popular.
Charlie Kuss
RV-8A punching holes for instruments in my panel
Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>Not reading the list real time these days but scanning it about two months
behind. I have how ever been reading it for quite a few years though and
I've seen the cheap strobe subject come up many times. I thought I'd speak
up on this one to put forth my opinion that the cheap strobes designed for
emergency ground vehicles are next to USELESS in aircraft. They are not
bright enough. I've had the good fortune in my career to test many different
types of strobes and I've used this experience to form this strong opinion.
>
>Ground vehicle strobes are purposely not as bright as aviation strobes
because if they were they would blind motorists on dark and rainy nights.
They are designed to be in your scope of vision, aviation strobes are
designed to be noticed from your peripheral vision from much further away.
That is a big difference. Vehicle strobes are typically giving warning to
other vehicles that are within 1/4 mile from the source. That's not good
enough for aircraft. We need them to be seen from several miles away. Some
one is now sure to pipe up that they have seen police strobes two miles down
the highway so I'll point out that you were probably looking directly down
that straight, level highway. How noticeable do you feel they would be at
four miles off your two o'clock? If you are on a converging flightpath, you
would want them to be noticeable from at least four miles.
>
>An interesting turn of my career this year involved spending over $40k
building some modern LED police light bars. I tested LED's from several
manufactures after spending considerable effort researching who had the
brightest LED's. I tested quite a few and found that they are very
directional. They can be made with a wide beam or a narrow beam. Going with
a wide beam sacrifices brightness at distance. I ended up purchasing 6000 of
what I considered to be the brightest. To cover 90 degrees of vision, they
have to be splayed or fanned out so that even if you have a panel of 40
LEDs, you will only see a minority of them when a long distance away from
them. When left in a flat panel, they were useless for the task of a police
light bar. When seen from outside their beam they appear to turn off.
>
>The best thing about LEDs is their low power draw. The second best thing is
their cool operating temperature. The third is that they last for a very
long time. Sadly, I feel that to do a good job in an aircraft, one would
need to use a huge panel (100+) of the best available LEDs. By the way, the
good ones are not cheap and you still need to build a board to get them to
fire. I am not convinced that LEDs are bright enough to substitute for
strobes. Position lights are a different story and I do not have a strong
opinion. I would like to see a useful experiment done by a group of RV's
equipped with different lights. Fly them in trail and photograph (still and
video) them from a mile away. I would love to see the results. Would very
much like to see how the new LED position lights stack up against the
conventional Whelen halogen position lights
>
>This is only my opinion but I feel that I have played with more lighting
than most amateur aircraft builders. I feel that the best anti collision
lighting we can put on our homebuilds are the highest wattage strobes
available. Again, sadly, they aren't cheap. If you are researching strobes
with the intention to be as noticeable as possible, seek the highest wattage
output on your power supply. The cheap ones are no good on airplanes.
>
>I wonder if I'll need a flame suit for this one. I certainly am not
intending to slam new technology, just exercising my right to express my own
opinion on aircraft anti-collision strobes - NOT POSITION LIGHTS.
>
>A quick word on the new technology of HID landing lights. They are worth
the money. If you want better and are willing to spend the money, they rule.
>
>PS - new technology in lighting is coming out all the time and I won't
claim to be up on every last thing out there. I noticed that for the first
time an auto manufactor is using LEDs for headlights. Check out the new
610hp Audi Le Mans. It has headlights made up of 17 LEDs per side. I wonder
who developed the bulbs and where we could get a few to test. They must be
good as this car is designed to be the fastest production car available.
>
>Norman Hunger
>RV6A Delta BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wing Skin Corrosion Under Plastic - Update! |
Which makes me think there must be some corroding element in the adhesive of
the blue plastic.Las week , I peeled off the white plastic from some of the
scrap that was sent in my kits in 1995 which has been sitting in my basement
since then,------ still pristine!
Cheers!!----Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
Leland
I believe you are looking for a Greenlee model 731 radio chassis punch. I have
one of these tools. It produces a round hole with a fall side. (Sort of a D)
This punch was used to put the old glass BUSS type fuse holders in certified ships.
I'll check the diameter of the punch when I go to my shop later.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Is there a tool or technique for making correctly sized and shaped holes for the
W58 Series Switch/Breakers? The threads that go through the panel have a nominal
diameter of 0.46" with a flat spot on one side. I presume the flat spot
is to keep the breaker from rotating in its panel hole. Any help would be much
appreciated.
>Leland in Pleasanton
>RV9A
>New Lycoming from Van's arriving next week
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips |
I have my RV-6 with the old style (Hoerner) tips. I have pretty good
data on the top end speed of my RV and a pretty good system for
getting repeatable data.
If anybody wants to loan me a set of the new RV tips, I can do the
tip mod that Jim is talking about (which is minor) and do the testing
and report back with a comparison test. Might be interesting.
I figure I'd need them for a least a few weeks to get them mounted,
modified, and leave enough time for finding good days to test on.
Of course, somebody local would be preferable.
Anybody interested?
Laird
SoCal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil N" <pnewlon(at)toosan.com> |
Unless you have a spouse like mine that hates to hold the enroute charts
and approach plates :-) Mine insisted that I take up too much room and
she wants her own space.
> If you have a spouse or significant other that will be going
> with you regularly, get the SBS...
> Lets face it. The side by side is the more practical way to
> go. The tandem looks cooler. I think that says it all.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Japundza <bjapundza(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | impulse coupling spring |
Hello All,
I am wondering if any of you could tell me how to wind a bendix impulse coupling
by hand. This weekend I pulled my bendix mag out to do the 500 hour check,
and to check the points/e-gap, cam condition, etc. I wanted to verify that the
impulse flyweights were not held on by the old-style rivets, and as I was pulling
the impulse assembly off with a gear puller (with the puller pulling on
the flyweight body per the book), boing! the impulse coupling broke loose and
the body/spring came off. The only manual I have seems to be rather outdated
and it doesn't describe impulse coupling assembly. After breaking one spring
trying to rewind it, and not wanting to repeat this exercise, is there a sure-fire
way to do it?
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying 550 hours
F1 QB under const.
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
>
> Alex,
>
> Is this a ploy? Were you baiting me? Has the list been too
> quiet for too long so you felt the need to throw some avgas
> on the fire?
>
Doug, I am disappointed that I didn't think of you when I threw that
post to the list this morning. I would have made it much more
inflammatory.
OK, I give, the tandem seating is "cooler" for the pilot (and really
cool for the Minnesota winter passenger). But, I don't think the
canyons can really tell when we buzz by at a couple hundred mph.
Good comment by someone else that hip room is more in the -8's.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com> |
This is a first for me. A Woman that doesn't mind being bagage
Doyle Reed 7A 140 hrs
>
> Recommendation:
>
> If you have a spouse or significant other, check with them. They
> should also
> fly, or at least sit in, all the models: side-by-side, tandem, and
> taildragger. You might be surprised at the result.
>
> My wife and I flew our Tobago to Van's with the intent to purchase
> an RV-7A
> kit. After flying the 6A (no 7A demo available at that time),
> sitting in the
> RV-7, and flying the 8A, my wife liked the RV-8A, so that's what we
> got. Her
> reasons: More room (shoulders tend to rub together in side-by-side),
> better
> visibility with a tandem rear seat than a side seat (she thought),
> and, probably
> most importantly, the centerline "feel" while flying. My reasons:
> The same.
>
> As far as tri-gear vs. tail dragger, our conclusions for the
> tri-gear were:
> That's what we were used to flying (Tobago, Cherokee 140), easier
> landing, and
> lower insurance.
>
> Note: All of Van's aircraft are fine aircraft. In my opinion, your
> choice
> will be mainly a matter of personal requirements, experience, and
> taste. Since
> all RVers are proud of their aircraft, they may tend to advocate
> their
> particular choice, but, bottom line, it's what you want, and your
> spouse/significant
> other, that's important!
>
> Good Luck,
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
>
>Nine Builder wrote:
>
>>
>>Is there a tool or technique for making correctly sized and shaped holes for
the W58 Series Switch/Breakers? The threads that go through the panel have a nominal
diameter of 0.46" with a flat spot on one side. I presume the flat spot
is to keep the breaker from rotating in its panel hole. Any help would be much
appreciated.
>>Leland in Pleasanton
>>RV9A
>>New Lycoming from Van's arriving next week
>>
>>
>Yes. It's called a punch press, and it weighs far more than your
>airplane. :-D . Barring that, there is a useful tool called a file.
>Well, you asked. You can do yourself a favor and forget the flat. If
>you drill the holes for a row of breakers the correct spacing so the
>breakers fit next to each other, they can't rotate. This way you can
>drill a 1/2" hole and be done with it. A Unibit would be a good, nifty
>tool.
>
>Linn Walters
Linn
You are WAY off base here. The Greenlee model 731 radio chassis punch I mentioned
earlier is about 1 " wide and 1.5" long. It must weigh all of 1/2 an ounce.
Do a search on EBay to find one, or go to your local Avionics shop. They will
have one. You might also be able to order one through your local electrician's
supply house, as most of these folks are distributors for Greenlee products.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
>
>Nine Builder wrote:
>
> >
> >Is there a tool or technique for making correctly sized and shaped holes
> for the W58 Series Switch/Breakers? The threads that go through the panel
> have a nominal diameter of 0.46" with a flat spot on one side.
Greenlee part number 60077.
It is called a "D" chassis punch.
Page 34 of the Greenlee catalog.
http://198.247.193.8/wwwroot/greenlee/holemaking.pdf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com> |
| Subject: | pop rivet stems falling out |
Hi list,
I am closing out my RV-9 HS and the plans call for some LP4-4 pop rivets
to attach the ribs to the rear spar in places where you can't buck.
No problem, right? Well...as I pulled a couple of them, I heard the stem
break, and then a rattling noise of the bottom half of the stem falling
through the shop head and into the HS. Now I can see daylight through
those rivets.
I understand the stem can fall out later in life, but does this weaken
the rivet? Anything I can do to avoid it as I am pulling?
2 out of the first 5 I pulled had this problem.
Thanks!
Paul
http://hmb.dyndns.org/~eastham/rv
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Tips (very short) |
I bought the Van's sheared tips and added the sharp edge with west
systems epoxy and microballoons mixed to a very stiff consistency and
sanded to shape when dry. Took a few applications to get it right, but
it wasn't very hard to do. By the way, that was my very first composite
project, so I'm not kidding when I say it wasn't hard to do. Not flying
yet so I don't have data. I did em that way because Tracy Saylor said it
works. I've flown with him and his airplane is fast, very fast.
Ed Holyoke
6QB canopy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Tips (very short)
In a message dated 11/23/2003 9:35:40 PM Pacific Standard Time,
dan(at)rvproject.com writes:
Jim,
Thanks for the great info. I'm curious if you happen to have any sort
of
side-by-side photos or diagrams that might highlight the difference that
you're talking about between Van's sheared tips (with the joggle you
mentioned) and the ideal tips (with the straight line vortex cutter).
If not, no sweat, but I'd like to gather as much info on this as
possible
before I decide one way or the other.
Thanks!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Normally, the parting line edge on Van's sheared wingtip is sanded into
a
nice smooth rounded edge.
Maybe someone on this list with composite expertise can suggest an easy
way
to create the sharp edge on Van's wingtip along the parting line.
Jim Ayers
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Less Expensive (not cheap) strobes |
God I hate to disagree with Norman. I've been reading the list for about 4
yrs now and I'd bet that he's forgoten more about aircraft than I will ever
learn. However, with that said, I think several things he mentioned about
"cheap" strobes are incorrect.
I live 5 miles from the headquarters of Whelen Engineering. Chester
airport,3B9, is owned by Whelen and is right next door to the headquarters.
Many of my friends either work for Whelen or have in the past. When I
first started flying I asked the obvious question: Why are the aviation
power supplies so much more money?? The answer was simple. They take a
commercial power supply, figure in the amount of money necessary to get it
certified. That means high temp tests, low temp tests, EMI tests, corrosion
tests, the whole gamut. (Interesting side note, many of Whelen's products
are used on aircraft that operate off of salt water so corrosion is a big
issue. I was told that the harshest environment is the helicopters used to
service off shore oil drilling rigs)
They take all that expense, figure an anticipated market, figure a return on
investment/payback period and set a price. Don't forget that a Whelen
aviation strobe has to be certified. It costs more to be certified. Just
like you'll never see a $2000 certified efis, ever. But we've already got
one that's not certified. So where was I?
Oh yeah, a strobe power supply has a power rating, I think its Joules.
Aviation Joules are the same as public safety Joules, a Joule is a Joule.
I ended up purchasing a power supply for my RV that while not dirt cheap was
in many ways superior to an aviation supply at a lower price. I purchased a
supply that is considered a "rough duty" power supply. It is entirely
encased in epoxy and is totally vibration and water proof. It is made by a
company named Nova. They are based about 10 miles from Whelen and was
founded by Ex-whelen people. Whelen makes similar devices for the rough
duty market. I chose a Nova because a very good friend of mine (who is a
pilot and hates the fact that I can use superior non aviation products where
prudent) knows a lot about this stuff. His company does turn key public
safety vehicle installations. Radios, lights, sirens. He swares by the
Whelen stuff, he also likes the Nova stuff. He happened to have a Nova that
fit my application on hand so I used it. If he'd had a Whelen on hand, I'd
have used that. (a Joule is a Joule is a Joule)
He also told me that most of the strobe heads for a given input are the same
in brightness. If you feed an aviation head X Joules it won't be brighter
than a public safety head.
In the area of LEDs, just you wait. Norman may be right about the current
state of the art, but things are changing fast. Surefire, a high end flash
light manufacturer now has an LED flashlight with a SINGLE 5 watt GE LED.
It puts out 55 lumens. That's twice the light of a 4 D cell Maglight. This
LED is still far too expensive to use clustered, but that will change with
time.
Whelen is rolling out LED position lights this fall. They've got an all LED
replacement for the standard bulky beacon seen on the top of many plane's
VS. It is VERY bright, and it draws something like 1 amp. They've also got
wing tip LED position lights. Retail on the Wing tip lights is around $400.
But unfortunately they are only currently available in 28 volt versions.
I'm told 12 volt products are on the way.
Re HID lights I totally concur. Amazing. They're much better than standard
quartz halogen bulbs, but in comparison to standard landing lights they flat
blow them away. This same friend and I did an experiment with my car, a
standard landing light, and a HID driving light. If the HID was a 10, the
car lights were a 6 and the landing light was a 3.
Only downside to HIDs is that you can't Wig Wag them.
Best regards,
Don Mei
"All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create
the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan
Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Panel switch/breaker panel holes |
Guys, guys, guys........Toggle switches will stay put just fine without the
flat spot and/or the keyway cut into the panel. Use the star washer under
the nut when installing them, and they'll stay put. A Unibit works just
great! Check out all the 30+ yr old production airplanes' toggle
switches....Put all that time and effort into something else.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis (Lot's of Toggles, NO flat spots or keyways in the
holes).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Charlie Kuss
Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel switch/breaker panel holes
>
>Nine Builder wrote:
>
>>
>>Is there a tool or technique for making correctly sized and shaped holes
for the W58 Series Switch/Breakers? The threads that go through the panel
have a nominal diameter of 0.46" with a flat spot on one side. I presume the
flat spot is to keep the breaker from rotating in its panel hole. Any help
would be much appreciated.
>>Leland in Pleasanton
>>RV9A
>>New Lycoming from Van's arriving next week
>>
>>
>Yes. It's called a punch press, and it weighs far more than your
>airplane. :-D . Barring that, there is a useful tool called a file.
>Well, you asked. You can do yourself a favor and forget the flat. If
>you drill the holes for a row of breakers the correct spacing so the
>breakers fit next to each other, they can't rotate. This way you can
>drill a 1/2" hole and be done with it. A Unibit would be a good, nifty
>tool.
>
>Linn Walters
Linn
You are WAY off base here. The Greenlee model 731 radio chassis punch I
mentioned earlier is about 1 " wide and 1.5" long. It must weigh all of 1/2
an ounce. Do a search on EBay to find one, or go to your local Avionics
shop. They will have one. You might also be able to order one through your
local electrician's supply house, as most of these folks are distributors
for Greenlee products.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
Rv8-List" ,
Rv7-List
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: AK 450 ELT |
Hey Stein, I got the order from you today,
Great service and great prices. I have the Coax installed and the Xpndr checed
out OK..
Hoping to have the uhmw tape on in a couple of weeks.........
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> |
I had never flown the 8 when I purchased the my 7A and when I went to pick
up my kit last year I got a ride in the 8 and almost canceled the deal on my
7 to get an 8. I couldn't help think about why I bought the 7 though. I have
two little girls, one of which is in love with flying in the right seat next
to me.
Buying an 8 would have taken away from our grins and interaction and I
couldn't stand it if she lost interest in flying. One day I'll give her the
7 and I'll build an 8 though. :-)
Karie Daniel
Sammamish, WA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Which RV?
>
> Consider also that you have more hip, shoulder, and elbow room in a
RV-8/8A
> than in the side-by-side RV's.
>
> Vince Welch
>
>
> >From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: Which RV?
> >Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 08:28:36 -0600
> >
> >
> >To those contemplating building an RV:
> >
> >Obviously, there is no "right" model of RV to choose. Each has their
> >own pluses and minuses. Fortunately, Van has really diminished the
> >minuses on all RV models. Mostly, it simply comes down to which one
> >catches your fancy. However, I wanted to share my experience with the
> >side by side RV (mine is a 6A) as it relates to model type. I'm not
> >going to get into the practical differences between trike and
> >taildragger, they have been flogged to death on this list. I also do
> >not have RV experience in fore/aft arrangements.
> >
> >Regarding passengers: I am probably unique in that I rarely fly alone,
> >maybe 20% of the time. One of the most enjoyable things for me with my
> >plane is sharing it, whether it be with my family or others. Having
> >side by side seating is quite nice for this. Would this be diminished
> >with a fore/aft setup? I think so. Non pilot passengers seem to really
> >like asking and learning about the various instruments on the panel.
> >Also, I would generally not take passengers in a fore/aft arrangement
> >with the rear seat stick in place, whereas I don't mind doing that in
> >the side by side.
> >
> >Regarding long cross country trips: Last week I flew from southern
> >Florida to Minneapolis in one day, three hops, headwinds, a total of 9.4
> >hours on the hobbs. I was alone for this trip, but it was really nice
> >to be able to set charts and the cooler on the seat next to me. I took
> >the passenger control stick out for this trip. Additionally, it was
> >nice to be able to move my legs around to the right side occasionally.
> >
> >Flight instruction: I am working (slowly, still!!) on an instrument
> >rating in my plane. This would really not be possible with a tandem
> >arrangment.
> >
> >Formation flying: Here is a bit of a disadvantage for the side by side.
> >I prefer not to fly formation to the left of someone. One needs to
> >leave a little more margin (specifically, stay lower relative to the
> >lead) if flying on the left of lead in a side by side.
> >
> >Just some thoughts from a side by sider!
> >
> >Alex Peterson
> >Maple Grove, MN
> >RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
> >www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
> >
> >
>
> Say goodbye to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet
> connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average.
> https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Norman Hunger" <nhunger(at)sprint.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Strobes |
Charlie's post is truly excellent and sums up what it takes to get bright,
noticeable strobes. Good to hear from Bill that he is working on a similar
power supply for a much better price. Pay attention to Charlie's points of a
water proof supply so builders can mount it anywhere. He also points out
that Whelen uses a lens with retainer to apparently get more bang for the
same amount of light. I'll bet all the guys out there using emergency
vehicle strobes are not even close to this brightness level of flash.
Norman Hunger
CASCAR #96
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaskuss(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Strobes
>
> Hi Norman,
> Thanks for your detailed post. I'd like you to tell me if my research on
this subject is in error. I had followed much of the various threads
relating to the various strobe systems available. What I found was as
follows.
> The Aeroflash systems available are rated to the older, lower candlepower
standards set back before the 1980s. The newer systems have about 4 times
the power ( 100 vs 400 candlepower I believe) that this older system has.
The Nova power supplies available from STROBES N' MORE come in a variety of
styles and powers. I chose their most powerful (X-Pak 904 model 90 watt)
single unit power supply. See
> http://www.strobe.com/pdfs/xpak904-install.pdf
> I intend to use this unit to power 3 strobes on my 8A. I purchased the
complete package below. This comes with 32 watt strobe heads. See
> http://strobeguy.safeshopper.com/18/1829.htm?959
> The switch was not included when I purchased my unit. It was on sale then
for $250.00
>
> Strobes N' More lists a similar Whelen unit. Unfortunately, they do not
supply as much info for this unit. It also appears that this Whelen unit is
not an aviation specific power supply. Whelen's site recommends their model
HDACF for use with a 2 strobe system on our aircraft. They recommend the use
of 2 model A490ATSC power supplies for use on 3 strobe systems. I suspect
that the number of model A490ATSC power supplies to be used with a 3 lamp
system is a typographical error. I say this because Page 10 of their catalog
states that these units are designed to power one strobe head. (I could be
wrong on this) Page 10 of their catalog states that the model HDACF with
power 1, 2 or 3 strobe heads. So comparing the Nova X-Pak 904 to the Whelen
HDACF would be more of an "apples to apples" comparison.
> See
> http://www.whelen.com/nondynmc/Aviation/homebuilt.htm
> and
> http://www.whelen.com/pb/11015.htm
>
> From this I discern that the Nova unit will supply 80 joules of power.
(See first link listed above) This compares to the Whelen's 84 joules. (See
the third link listed above Page 10) The Whelen has a slight edge here, but
not a large one. I suspect that most of us could not tell the difference
with the naked eye. The Whelen unit is also somewhat more efficient in it's
use of power. The Nova unit is rated at 8.5 amps at 12.8 volts (8.5 X 12.8 108.8
watts). The Whelen HDACF is rated at 7 amps at 14 volts (7 X 14 = 98
watts)
> Is the Whelen unit waterproof? I seem to remember reading somewhere that
it was, but I can not locate the reference now. The Nova unit is not
waterproof, so this must be taken into account when mounting it. The Whelen
unit may have an advantage here.
> One point I will make in support of Norman's statements below, is that
the Strobes N' More strobe heads are supplied bare. Whelen supplies their
units with a special lens to focus the light output from their heads. This
is an important feature and should not be ignored. Luckily, users of the non
Whelen units can purchase the proper lens from Vans accessory catalog. They
are part number LN W1284-C . They cost $12.50 each and can be found on Vans
site at:
>
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1069691959-52-651&browse=lighting&product=strobe_parts
>
> A stamped steel lens retainer will also be needed to retain the lens to
the strobe heads. Vans catalog does not list these items.
>
> Am I missing anything here Norman? Please advise as to any technical
details I have missed. Good information is the key to good purchasing
decisions. I agree with Norman regarding the new HID head lamps. I'll be
prowling the local wrecking yards soon for the PAR 35 style (4.5" round) HID
head lamps. The current new prices for these is to rich for my blood. I
expect that the cost of these units will decline as they become more
plentiful and popular.
> Charlie Kuss
> RV-8A punching holes for instruments in my panel
> Boca Raton, Fl.
>
>
> >
> >Not reading the list real time these days but scanning it about two
months behind. I have how ever been reading it for quite a few years though
and I've seen the cheap strobe subject come up many times. I thought I'd
speak up on this one to put forth my opinion that the cheap strobes designed
for emergency ground vehicles are next to USELESS in aircraft. They are not
bright enough. I've had the good fortune in my career to test many different
types of strobes and I've used this experience to form this strong opinion.
> >
> >Ground vehicle strobes are purposely not as bright as aviation strobes
because if they were they would blind motorists on dark and rainy nights.
They are designed to be in your scope of vision, aviation strobes are
designed to be noticed from your peripheral vision from much further away.
That is a big difference. Vehicle strobes are typically giving warning to
other vehicles that are within 1/4 mile from the source. That's not good
enough for aircraft. We need them to be seen from several miles away. Some
one is now sure to pipe up that they have seen police strobes two miles down
the highway so I'll point out that you were probably looking directly down
that straight, level highway. How noticeable do you feel they would be at
four miles off your two o'clock? If you are on a converging flightpath, you
would want them to be noticeable from at least four miles.
> >
> >An interesting turn of my career this year involved spending over $40k
building some modern LED police light bars. I tested LED's from several
manufactures after spending considerable effort researching who had the
brightest LED's. I tested quite a few and found that they are very
directional. They can be made with a wide beam or a narrow beam. Going with
a wide beam sacrifices brightness at distance. I ended up purchasing 6000 of
what I considered to be the brightest. To cover 90 degrees of vision, they
have to be splayed or fanned out so that even if you have a panel of 40
LEDs, you will only see a minority of them when a long distance away from
them. When left in a flat panel, they were useless for the task of a police
light bar. When seen from outside their beam they appear to turn off.
> >
> >The best thing about LEDs is their low power draw. The second best thing
is their cool operating temperature. The third is that they last for a very
long time. Sadly, I feel that to do a good job in an aircraft, one would
need to use a huge panel (100+) of the best available LEDs. By the way, the
good ones are not cheap and you still need to build a board to get them to
fire. I am not convinced that LEDs are bright enough to substitute for
strobes. Position lights are a different story and I do not have a strong
opinion. I would like to see a useful experiment done by a group of RV's
equipped with different lights. Fly them in trail and photograph (still and
video) them from a mile away. I would love to see the results. Would very
much like to see how the new LED position lights stack up against the
conventional Whelen halogen position lights
> >
> >This is only my opinion but I feel that I have played with more lighting
than most amateur aircraft builders. I feel that the best anti collision
lighting we can put on our homebuilds are the highest wattage strobes
available. Again, sadly, they aren't cheap. If you are researching strobes
with the intention to be as noticeable as possible, seek the highest wattage
output on your power supply. The cheap ones are no good on airplanes.
> >
> >I wonder if I'll need a flame suit for this one. I certainly am not
intending to slam new technology, just exercising my right to express my own
opinion on aircraft anti-collision strobes - NOT POSITION LIGHTS.
> >
> >A quick word on the new technology of HID landing lights. They are worth
the money. If you want better and are willing to spend the money, they rule.
> >
> >PS - new technology in lighting is coming out all the time and I won't
claim to be up on every last thing out there. I noticed that for the first
time an auto manufactor is using LEDs for headlights. Check out the new
610hp Audi Le Mans. It has headlights made up of 17 LEDs per side. I wonder
who developed the bulbs and where we could get a few to test. They must be
good as this car is designed to be the fastest production car available.
> >
> >Norman Hunger
> >RV6A Delta BC
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Doyle,
My wife is looking for you, and she's not happy! She would like to inform
you that there are flight controls in the back seat of an 8A, and she intends to
use them! In fact, she insisted that I get the rear rudder pedal option.
You're in trouble, man!
Good Luck,
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> |
Doug Rozendall is right. When you fly a side by side you know that you're in
a great airplane. When you fly tandem, you are the airplane. It's a hard
feeling to explain.
Imagine yourself flying without an airplane. Spreading you're arms and only
needing guns to be a WWII ace. Also you don't need someone else to go with
you to fully enjoy the trip.
That said, I'm now building a RV7 because my wife and I are fat,old and
need a place for Buffy (the dog) to sit and also carry more baggage. Isn't
that the same reason everyone builds a side by side ( just kidding).
Actually, anyone considering building an airplane should examine their
intended major use of the airplane. I'm getting ready for retirement and I
need more X-country capability and comfort. While I'm working and only get
so many weeks a year for vacation, I'm tickled to death to feel like a
fighter pilot when I fly, and we send our baggage by UPS to our destination
and box it up and send it back home when we're ready to go. Works great.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: pop rivet stems falling out |
In the few places in a -4 where 1/8' dia. blind rivets are specified, I
always used structural rivets (e.g. Cherrymax). They are very expensive,
but very few are needed. And, you never need worry about the quality or
installation of your pop rivets.
Good luck
Dean
>From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: pop rivet stems falling out
>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:16 -0800
>
>
>Hi list,
> I am closing out my RV-9 HS and the plans call for some LP4-4 pop rivets
>to attach the ribs to the rear spar in places where you can't buck.
>No problem, right? Well...as I pulled a couple of them, I heard the stem
>break, and then a rattling noise of the bottom half of the stem falling
>through the shop head and into the HS. Now I can see daylight through
>those rivets.
>
>I understand the stem can fall out later in life, but does this weaken
>the rivet? Anything I can do to avoid it as I am pulling?
>2 out of the first 5 I pulled had this problem.
>
>Thanks!
>Paul
>http://hmb.dyndns.org/~eastham/rv
>
>
Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
List Members:
I have been informed that of the more or less 260 delivery position
agreements that DeltaHawk holds, approximately 80 are from RV builders.
I am of like mind. If I am correct in the above I would look forward to
corresponding with any who wish to about the status of the project, work
undertaken to prepare for an RV installation (especially the RV-8)and
general talk about DeltaHawk and its implications for the aviation world
and RV's in particular.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
When do they think they will start to deliver to the general public and are
they discussing a firewall forward kit for RVs?
In a message dated 11/25/2003 8:04:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
gcomfo(at)tc3net.com writes:
List Members:
I have been informed that of the more or less 260 delivery position
agreements that DeltaHawk holds, approximately 80 are from RV builders.
I am of like mind. If I am correct in the above I would look forward to
corresponding with any who wish to about the status of the project, work
undertaken to prepare for an RV installation (especially the RV-8)and
general talk about DeltaHawk and its implications for the aviation world
and RV's in particular.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pop rivet stems falling out |
There is nothing wrong with the quality of pop rivets if used as
designed and where intended by Van's. To answer
the original question about the stems falling out, it is perfectly ok
and IMO opinion desirable so they don't fall out
and rattle around in the aircraft later. The little stem is not there
for strength.
Jerry
Dean Pichon wrote:
>
>In the few places in a -4 where 1/8' dia. blind rivets are specified, I
>always used structural rivets (e.g. Cherrymax). They are very expensive,
>but very few are needed. And, you never need worry about the quality or
>installation of your pop rivets.
>
>Good luck
>
>Dean
>
>
>
>
>>From: Paul Eastham <eastham(at)netapp.com>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: pop rivet stems falling out
>>Date: Mon, 24 Nov 2003 18:04:16 -0800
>>
>>
>>Hi list,
>> I am closing out my RV-9 HS and the plans call for some LP4-4 pop rivets
>>to attach the ribs to the rear spar in places where you can't buck.
>>No problem, right? Well...as I pulled a couple of them, I heard the stem
>>break, and then a rattling noise of the bottom half of the stem falling
>>through the shop head and into the HS. Now I can see daylight through
>>those rivets.
>>
>>I understand the stem can fall out later in life, but does this weaken
>>the rivet? Anything I can do to avoid it as I am pulling?
>>2 out of the first 5 I pulled had this problem.
>>
>>Thanks!
>>Paul
>>http://hmb.dyndns.org/~eastham/rv
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Radomir Zaric" <radomirz(at)vitez.net> |
Someone posted a message from them yesterday on the Yahoo group -- they
definitely won't be doing any FWF kits..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: newly overhauled engine starting question |
Dave,
I have followed the numerous comments made on how to avoid glazing the
cylinders. We found ourselves with a newly OH engine (not test run) after
about 50 hours on our 8A. We researched the break-in process (web, RV-List
archive and a number of questions to engine manufacturers and engine
experts). The consensis was minimize ground runs and run it hard during
break- in, We used AeroShell minerial oil during the first 25 hours of
break-in and then Phillips XC, BTW we have Chrome cyls.
My concern for your situation: is your first few flights -
I would risk the glazing, to focus on doing the ground runs and taxi tests.
I would also fly the test plan and focus on the test plan, not the break-in
of your engine.
While the rehoning the cyls and installing new rings will eat into your
wallet. It's better than not having to worry about a wallet.
Thoughts to consider,
Safety -- FIRST,
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: newly overhauled engine starting question
>Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2003 09:24:30 -0500
>
>
>I have read some recent posts regarding starting a new or rebuilt engine
>and have some questions. I had picked up a package while at Oshkosh from
>Lycoming regarding some of their service instructions. One of them
>outlines the procedure they recommend for breaking in a new or overhauled
>engine. Their comments about breaking in the rings ranging from a cylinder
>that has new rings only or a completely overhauled engine, are that the
>procedure is the same. I don't have the instructions with me at the
>moment, they are at the airport but basically goes like this:
>
>Start engine to verify oil pressure and if no oil pressure shut down before
>30 seconds.
>
>If oil pressure is fine run engine at 1000 rpm until oil pressure comes to
>140 degrees.
>
>After reaching 140 degrees run engine at 1200 rpm for 15 minutes monitoring
>cylinder temps and making sure they do not exceed limits.
>
>Shut off, let engine cool while checking for oil leaks. After engine cools
>moderately restart and bring oil temp back to 140 then bring to full
>airframe rpm for not longer than 10 seconds.
>
>Fly at full throttle for 2 hours then alternating at 75 and 60 % power
>until oil consumption stabilizes.
>
>
>This is the basic outline for the engine preliminary startup according to
>Lycoming, (it is from memory so may not be exact) before flying which
>contradicts the theory I've also heard from others of minimal engine start
>for no more than 30 seconds for checking oil leaks, then take off and fly
>full throttle for at least 1 hour.
>
>My question lies between the first 30 seconds and the runup procedures of
>basically warming the engine and oil, a short duration full rpm runup, then
>full throttle flight. I have a completely overhauled engine I will be
>flying shortly so am concerned about cylinder glazing preventing a quality
>break-in but am also wondering why there is a contradiction between
>Lycoming and the " don't run the engine on the ground" theory? I want to
>make sure that my engine runs ok for at least the time I can get to
>altitude (for sure) but don't want to inhibit the break-in procedure.
>Anyone have any helpful information?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6 getting close
>
>
Is there a gadget-lover on your gift list? MSN Shopping has lined up some
good bets! http://shopping.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
"RV-List Digest (E-mail)"
Here's some trivia to file away.
Anybody care to guess what the pressure in your brake line is???? Jim Winings
measured it. He said he measured up to 350 psi for a firm brake application
and around 500 psi if you are giving it everything you got.
Cool info, eh?
Vince Frazier
________________________________________________________________________________
Jim,
I don't think my wife considers herself to be macho. She considers herself
to be a flyer and not just a rider or "baggage." Also, I'm not sure that your
wife is "typical" anymore. More and more women are enjoying building, flying,
and becoming pilots. It's a good change. Enough said.
Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Strobes |
> He also points out
>that Whelen uses a lens with retainer to apparently get more bang for the
>same amount of light.
The lens redistributes the light from the strobe lamp. The FAA
requires more light horizontally than vertically. The lens increases the
amount of light in the horizontal plane by redirecting some of the light
that would have gone up or down.
________________________________________________________________________________
Yahoo group? Oh no, what other forum is going on there that couldn't be
done here?
In a message dated 11/25/2003 9:17:23 AM Eastern Standard Time,
radomirz(at)vitez.net writes:
Someone posted a message from them yesterday on the Yahoo group -- they
definitely won't be doing any FWF kits..
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
Gordon and Marge wrote:
>I have been informed that of the more or less 260 delivery position
>agreements that DeltaHawk holds, approximately 80 are from RV builders.
>I am of like mind. If I am correct in the above I would look forward to
>corresponding with any who wish to about the status of the project, work
>undertaken to prepare for an RV installation (especially the RV-8)and
>general talk about DeltaHawk and its implications for the aviation world
>and RV's in particular.
>
>
I am still a ways away from even starting the plane, but I plan on using
the DeltaHawk when the time comes. I would be interested in hearing how
it is going from others that plan to do the same. I am especially
interested in the modifications with the fuel system with venting and
all that is described on DeltaHawk's web site, I don't quite understand
exactly what they want done.
Chris Woodhouse
Oklahoma City
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV8ter(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: DeltaHawk
When do they think they will start to deliver to the general public and
are
they discussing a firewall forward kit for RVs?
As I understand it, DeltaHawk's intention is to begin delivering engines
in 2004 with the 200hp inverted the last to appear by years end.
Apparently, to reach 200hp intercooling is required, otherwise little is
changed from the 180. DeltaHawk will not develop firewall forward
packages for any aircraft, rather they will contract that work to those
who are capable of proper development, for which negotiations are
underway. Similarly, the company will not manufacture the engines but
rather contract that task to a company that presently builds engines.
It is projected that the first three months of production will be
required to complete about 40 engines with 50 engines per month produced
after that. When these contracts have been signed, they will be
announced. Work proceeds toward type certification and according to
their website they will deliver an engine to Champion Aircraft so that
Champion can certify soon after engine certification is obtained. They
have not yet flight tested to a high enough altitude to determine
critical altitude for the 160 but apparently have 100% available at
16,500.
I have neither the time, money or inclination to tackle a complete FWF
job nor do I have any reason to think they would offer me the chance,
but someone will. If the program goes as currently projected, and Lord
knows, there are plenty of ways for schedules to slip, a very attractive
power package will ensue. To their credit they have proceeded without
much fanfare, have refused to be distracted from their goal and have
taken a methodical approach to identifying and solving the problems they
have encountered. From the vibration standpoint, Michael Zoche said to
me several years ago, that of all the proposed CI engines out there,
DeltaHawk was the best save for his own Aeordiesel. All the others
contained the seeds of their own failures. Time will tell
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Randy Richter <richterrbb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | LightSPEED 3G series and LG TP 5250 |
First off, I tried the archives and couldn't find any pertinent info, so
(grasp nose and jump) . . .
Does anyone on the list have any experience with the LightSPEED 3G
series ANR headsets and LG cell phones, specifically, the TP 5250.
(LightSPEED told me that LG has not provided them any info, so their
phones don't appear in the compatibility list.) If so, does it need an
adaptor? Is it loud enough with the engine running?
Naturally, I'll try to get to some local pilot shops to see if they have
a demo to try it on. If so, I'll post the results.
Feel free to respond off line.
Thanks in advance!
Randy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com> |
Bill: I got an idea. You be the baggage an let the wife be the pilot.
Doyle. RV7A.
>
> Jim,
>
> I don't think my wife considers herself to be macho. She considers
> herself
> to be a flyer and not just a rider or "baggage." Also, I'm not sure
> that your
> wife is "typical" anymore. More and more women are enjoying
> building, flying,
> and becoming pilots. It's a good change. Enough said.
>
> Bill
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov" <Jim.Truitt(at)usdoj.gov> |
Does anyone have photos of the "hot" sheared wingtips with the sharp
edge. I'm intrigued with speed mods.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips |
| From: | "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com> |
The real test would be to have one style wingtip on one side and the
other style on the other side. Direct comparison. The drag difference
would show up as yaw and the stall speed difference would show up by
which wing dropped first.
It would be difficult to quantify the difference, but at least you would
know for sure that there was a difference before proceeding any further.
Before I get flamed, think about it. The test is not as radical as it
sounds. The airplane will be very controllable because of the abundant
control authority and the stall speed will be the same as the wingtip
style that has the highest stall speed. The airplane will not go into
an uncontrollable spin, unless it would have with two tips of the same
type. I would even go as far as to say that you could safely fly with
only one wing tip and the other side capped off, the open lightening
holes might cause some structural issues.
Dave
RV-6
Been there done that on other airplanes...
rv-list
From: Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips
I have my RV-6 with the old style (Hoerner) tips. I have pretty good
data on the top end speed of my RV and a pretty good system for
getting repeatable data.
If anybody wants to loan me a set of the new RV tips, I can do the
tip mod that Jim is talking about (which is minor) and do the testing
and report back with a comparison test. Might be interesting.
I figure I'd need them for a least a few weeks to get them mounted,
modified, and leave enough time for finding good days to test on.
Of course, somebody local would be preferable.
Anybody interested?
Laird
SoCal
****************************************************************************************
Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and confidential
and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this message is not the
intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible for delivering this
message to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited. If
you have received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by
replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you.
****************************************************************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: LOW OIL LEVEL SENSOR |
Check out the oil sensor!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Meske" <rmeske(at)gcfn.org>
; ; ;
; ; ;
Subject: LOW OIL LEVEL SENSOR
> Hey Guys!
>
> I finally got it!! Check out my new Low Oil Level Sensor. It fits right
> in the oil pan of an O360-A1A.
>
> www.aircraftextras.com
>
> Rich
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | a flyer <aflyer(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips |
This is the way the Wright bros. tested some of the shapes...sorta...they
had a balance beam on the handlebars of their bicycle.
For side by side pics of the two wingtips see...
http://www.lazy8.net/hottips.htm
John Huft
RV8 Pagosa Springs, CO
----- Original Message -----
From: "David.vonLinsowe" <David.vonLinsowe(at)delphi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips
>
>
> The real test would be to have one style wingtip on one side and the
> other style on the other side. Direct comparison. The drag difference
> would show up as yaw and the stall speed difference would show up by
> which wing dropped first.
>
> It would be difficult to quantify the difference, but at least you would
> know for sure that there was a difference before proceeding any further.
>
> Before I get flamed, think about it. The test is not as radical as it
> sounds. The airplane will be very controllable because of the abundant
> control authority and the stall speed will be the same as the wingtip
> style that has the highest stall speed. The airplane will not go into
> an uncontrollable spin, unless it would have with two tips of the same
> type. I would even go as far as to say that you could safely fly with
> only one wing tip and the other side capped off, the open lightening
> holes might cause some structural issues.
>
> Dave
> RV-6
> Been there done that on other airplanes...
>
>
> rv-list
> From: Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips
>
>
> I have my RV-6 with the old style (Hoerner) tips. I have pretty good
> data on the top end speed of my RV and a pretty good system for
> getting repeatable data.
>
> If anybody wants to loan me a set of the new RV tips, I can do the
> tip mod that Jim is talking about (which is minor) and do the testing
> and report back with a comparison test. Might be interesting.
>
> I figure I'd need them for a least a few weeks to get them mounted,
> modified, and leave enough time for finding good days to test on.
>
> Of course, somebody local would be preferable.
>
> Anybody interested?
>
> Laird
> SoCal
>
>
****************************************************************************
************
>
> Note: The information contained in this message may be privileged and
confidential and thus protected from disclosure. If the reader of this
message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or agent responsible
for delivering this message to the intended recipient, you are hereby
notified that any dissemination, distribution or copying of this
communication is strictly prohibited. If you have received this
communication in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the
message and deleting it from your computer. Thank you.
>
>
****************************************************************************
************
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Instruments for Sale |
List:
I have the following for sale:
1. Naviaid Autopilot head. Flying for 1 year. Selling head only ... servo
stays in plane. Make offer.
2. RC Allen "Electric" DG Flying 1 year. Make offer.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
171 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips |
And how would we interpret the results from such a test? For
example, lets say you put the new style wing tip on the right, and
the old style on the left. And you determine that there is now a
very slight tendency to yaw to the left, and the left wing tends to
drop first at the stall. So the new wing tips seem to have a bit
less drag, and maybe a bit lower stall speed. How do you determine
how much faster the plane would be with the new wing tips based on
this data? Would it be 0.1 mph faster, 1 mph faster or 10 mph
faster? Same problem with the stall speed.
The real test is back to back tests on the same aircraft, using a
test technique that the pilot has proven gives repeatable results.
Don't bother putting the new wing tips on until you are getting
repeatable, predictable test results with the old ones, or you will
be wasting your time trying to make sense of data with too much noise
in it. Gather data over several flights with each set of wing tips.
Laird is on the right track, as he has done lots of perf testing on
his aircraft, and has figured out how to get repeatable results.
Kevin Horton
>
>
>
>The real test would be to have one style wingtip on one side and the
>other style on the other side. Direct comparison. The drag difference
>would show up as yaw and the stall speed difference would show up by
>which wing dropped first.
>
>It would be difficult to quantify the difference, but at least you would
>know for sure that there was a difference before proceeding any further.
>
>Before I get flamed, think about it. The test is not as radical as it
>sounds. The airplane will be very controllable because of the abundant
>control authority and the stall speed will be the same as the wingtip
>style that has the highest stall speed. The airplane will not go into
>an uncontrollable spin, unless it would have with two tips of the same
>type. I would even go as far as to say that you could safely fly with
>only one wing tip and the other side capped off, the open lightening
>holes might cause some structural issues.
>
>Dave
>RV-6
>Been there done that on other airplanes...
>
>
> rv-list
>From: Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com>
>Subject: RV-List: Sheared (RV-7) vs Hoerner (RV-6) Wing tips
>
>
>I have my RV-6 with the old style (Hoerner) tips. I have pretty good
>data on the top end speed of my RV and a pretty good system for
>getting repeatable data.
>
>If anybody wants to loan me a set of the new RV tips, I can do the
>tip mod that Jim is talking about (which is minor) and do the testing
>and report back with a comparison test. Might be interesting.
>
>I figure I'd need them for a least a few weeks to get them mounted,
>modified, and leave enough time for finding good days to test on.
>
>Of course, somebody local would be preferable.
>
>Anybody interested?
>
>Laird
>SoCal
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Baldwin" <n728p(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Hooker Harnesses for sale |
I'm putting this on the list for a friend.
For sale - 2 Hooker Custom Sport Harness sets ( five point ).
These are military style buckles, with 1 3/4" straps, and sets of pads .
Color is a light pale green, and goes with most any color. Currently
installed in an RV-6.
Price is $100.00 per side. Might trade for a set of Vans 4 point belts and
harnesses.
Regards,
Scott Baldwin
From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youll find a
range of helpful holiday info here.
http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List Engine break-in.....Which RV |
| From: | smoothweasel(at)juno.com |
First, I have been keeping a close eye on the thread of engine break-in(
I have fresh installed rings as of a week or so and not run yet) and was
day dreaming a little. If i take my airplane outside, tie it to the
ground on a day that is about 35 degrees F. will my engine still
overheat trying to break it in? At some Godforsaken temp I should be
able to break it in on the ground!!!????
........Which RV????? I personally have never flew/rode in ANY of Van's
aircraft! But I am here to say that tandem tailwheel is the only way to
go.......just trust me! obviously I don't have the experience to be
talking here( young, Single, and never married.......) but just trust me!
Joel "Weasel" Graber
-4 finishing
Brooksville MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Burnett" <smileyburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hooker Harnesses for sale |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Baldwin" <n728p(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Hooker Harnesses for sale
>
> I'm putting this on the list for a friend.
>
> For sale - 2 Hooker Custom Sport Harness sets ( five point ).
>
> These are military style buckles, with 1 3/4" straps, and sets of pads .
> Color is a light pale green, and goes with most any color. Currently
> installed in an RV-6.
>
> Price is $100.00 per side. Might trade for a set of Vans 4 point belts and
> harnesses.
>
> Regards,
> Scott Baldwin
>
> >From the hottest toys to tips on keeping fit this winter, youll find a
> range of helpful holiday info here.
> http://special.msn.com/network/happyholidays.armx
>
> Scott,
Am interested in the seat belts. Are the belts black and the pads green?
e-mail or call 636-294-6583
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Engine break-in.....Which RV |
This won't work, you need the cooling air you get in flight especially at
the higher power settings.
Eustace Blind Bay
----- Original Message -----
From: <smoothweasel(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV-List Engine break-in.....Which RV
>
>
> First, I have been keeping a close eye on the thread of engine break-in(
> I have fresh installed rings as of a week or so and not run yet) and was
> day dreaming a little. If i take my airplane outside, tie it to the
> ground on a day that is about 35 degrees F. will my engine still
> overheat trying to break it in? At some Godforsaken temp I should be
> able to break it in on the ground!!!????
>
>
> ........Which RV????? I personally have never flew/rode in ANY of Van's
> aircraft! But I am here to say that tandem tailwheel is the only way to
> go.......just trust me! obviously I don't have the experience to be
> talking here( young, Single, and never married.......) but just trust me!
>
>
> Joel "Weasel" Graber
> -4 finishing
> Brooksville MS
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
| Subject: | vents at bottom of cowl |
Listers,
I have seen the vents at the bottom of the cowl that are used to help air
exit the cowl for cooling purposes. Does anyone know where to find these
vents?
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Here's some trivia to file away.
Anybody care to guess what the pressure in your brake line is???? Jim Winings
measured it. He said he measured up to 350 psi for a firm brake application
and around 500 psi if you are giving it everything you got.
Cool info, eh?
Vince Frazier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Seeking performance numbers on Ed Sterba Wood Prop |
GlacierAnyone in RV-land with the following configuration (RV6/160HP
O-320/Ed Sterba Wood prop) and some performance numbers for the following?
1. Static RPM
2. Takeoff RPM
3. Max RPM 1000 ft. (+ MP if possible) ... speed (IAS, TAS, Ground speed
even and rate of climb )
4. Max RPM 8000 ft. (+ MP if possible) ... speed (IAS, TAS, Ground speed
even and rate of climb )
I did archival searches on both this list and the Yahoo list and could not
find anything. Yet, I seem to recall that some time ago someone launched an
initiative to get comparable data.
I am simply curious as to what the ranges might be on the above. I have
talked to Ed about numbers and our RV6 *might* could use a little more bite
but on the other hand it may be "just fine".
Please respond "off list" for dialogue ... james(at)nextupventures.com
Thanks,
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Last Minute...? |
Hey Folks STEP UP!!!!
We used to pick up this thread and beat the drum a little!!!! A few
personal storys about some heartache solved or some money saved...
GET A MOVE ON!!!!!!
This list is a valuable resource and ALL of us benefit greatly from it!
DIG DEEP!!!!!!
Dig out some of that moldy money and send some to ole Matt!!!
CLICK HERE!!!!!!!
http://www.matronics.com/contribution .
If you are scared to put your credit card info online,
SEND A CHECK!!!!!!
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
DO SOMETHING!!!!!
& DO IT KNOW!!!!!!
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "T H" <flyinggrizz(at)hotmail.com> |
Netiquete: Simple guidelines followed by polite users of email list groups.
Things like not using all caps unless you intend to be shouting.
Or trimming posts
Trimming posts is when you quote someone, and only includes the
portions that are relevant towards understanding the context of your
reply. There are two reasons for trimming posts; (1) that it reduces
the lenght of posts (we've all seen 100 lines of quoted text, and a one
line response in the bottom), and (2) it makes life easier for the ones
that read the lsit as a digest.
ALL THE MORE IMPORTANT IF YOU GET THE DIGEST, DO NOT REPLY AND INCLUDE THE
ENTIRE DIGEST.
Sorry for shouting
Grizz
Share holiday photos without swamping your Inbox. Get MSN Extra Storage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Engine break-in.....Which RV |
| From: | Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com> |
>
>
> First, I have been keeping a close eye on the thread of engine
> break-in(
> I have fresh installed rings as of a week or so and not run yet) and
> was
> day dreaming a little. If i take my airplane outside, tie it to
> the
> ground on a day that is about 35 degrees F. will my engine still
> overheat trying to break it in? At some Godforsaken temp I should
> be
> able to break it in on the ground!!!????
>
>
> ........Which RV????? I personally have never flew/rode in ANY of
> Van's
> aircraft! But I am here to say that tandem tailwheel is the only way
> to
> go.......just trust me! obviously I don't have the experience to
> be
> talking here( young, Single, and never married.......) but just
> trust me!
>
>
> Joel "Weasel" Graber
> -4 finishing
> Brooksville MS
>
> Weasel: I'm glad you qualified your statement, I have no experience.
Trust me your right.
Doyle Reed RV7A N70723. It is my second RV that I have built.
>
> _->
>
>
> UN/SUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Heater question? |
There is a tremendous variation in the outlet temperature between various
RVs, I have a question.
Do heaters that throttle the air going into the muff yield hotter air than
those that throttle the exit air?
My thinking here is maybe the restriction on the exit side creates a venturi
that has a cooling effect much like blowing compressed air on your hand with
a blow gun? A mini ACM, or sonic nozzle?
Can we have a little survey with the Northerners, (I mean people who fly in
the single digits, 25 deg F is not cold) and see if there is a correlation
between good and poor heaters and the location of the flow restriction?
My heater works good down to about 20 deg. below that it is marginal. I
added pot scrubbers with little if any improvement. My restriction is on
the outlet of the Muff. I want to be comfortable.
I have flown other RVs that will blow hot air well below Zero F. I can't
figure out the difference. I am not talking about leaks, drafts, and cabin
insulation, just the exit air temp from the heater vents. (The delta T
across the Muff for you engineer types.)
It is getting cold up here and I have a ton of traveling to do this winter.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meske <rmeske@gcfn.org> (SquirrelMail authenticated user rmeske) by www.gcfn.org with HTTP; Wed, |
26 Nov 2003 11:01:27.-0500(at)matronics.com (EST)
| Subject: | Low Oil Level Sensor |
NEW Low Oil Level Sensor
( You can even replace your oil drain plug with it! )
Check it out at www.aircraftextras.com
Just thought Id tell the group that I have been working on developing a
Low Oil Level Sensor for an O360 engine. It may fit others too. It is now
available for sale complete with a blinking LED for panel installation.
Later, I will offer a brighter and larger light.
I mainly did this because I never wanted to get a Low Oil Pressure light
indication in my plane, telling me that I had an oil leak. By that time,
it might be too late for a good power on landing. If you check the
accident archives, there have numerous low oil level problems over the
years, and I never saw an instrument to indicate this.
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leesafur(at)aol.com |
Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the 0249
but not the other.
Thanks
Lee Sahr
Anoka MN
RV-3 wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater question? LONG |
Doug,
I've got two Robbins muffs (with no scrub pads) in series one on each
pipe, the first one has a 1" restricter in it. This goes to a standard
heat box then thru the firewall and splits into two 1 1/4" ducts which
are terminated about 8" above the occupants feet. During my cabin
heating/venting testing I instumented the outlet air temp. The temp was
in excess of 165 degrees F (gauge limit), in fact it's so hot if you
leave it full on for more than 15 minutes your feet get too hot.
The problem I had initially is the amount of air coming in from the tail
( I have aileron boots) overwhelmed the hot air and you could hardly
feel the heat. After I got that volume reduced the heater really
started working with out doing anything to it. I still have a small
problem with cold air coming from the tail cone and will be working on
it again this winter. One thing I have noticed, is now that I have the
cabin sealed up tight is My CO detector is showing way more CO coming
in than I find acceptable. This is with the heater on or off and it is
not coming from the heater ducts or the firewall, but from the tail. The
exhaust attaches itself to the flow along the belly and is brought in
with the air. My CO detector has a digital readout, is portable, and
very sensitive and it has been moved around during extensive flight
testing. I can change the CO percent by adjusting the mixture or by
opening or closing the cabin air vents. With the vents wide open there
is a tremendous amount of air coming in and it over powers the tail
pressure. I've discussed longer exhaust extensions with Larry the
exhaust GURU and he says that they have tried various lengths with out
any luck. In the next few weeks I'm going to be getting back on this as
it's too cold to be flying around with the air vents wide open. Good
luck. I'll let you know what I find.
Casper
Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>There is a tremendous variation in the outlet temperature between various
>RVs, I have a question.
>
>Do heaters that throttle the air going into the muff yield hotter air than
>those that throttle the exit air?
>
>My thinking here is maybe the restriction on the exit side creates a venturi
>that has a cooling effect much like blowing compressed air on your hand with
>a blow gun? A mini ACM, or sonic nozzle?
>
>Can we have a little survey with the Northerners, (I mean people who fly in
>the single digits, 25 deg F is not cold) and see if there is a correlation
>between good and poor heaters and the location of the flow restriction?
>
>My heater works good down to about 20 deg. below that it is marginal. I
>added pot scrubbers with little if any improvement. My restriction is on
>the outlet of the Muff. I want to be comfortable.
>
>I have flown other RVs that will blow hot air well below Zero F. I can't
>figure out the difference. I am not talking about leaks, drafts, and cabin
>insulation, just the exit air temp from the heater vents. (The delta T
>across the Muff for you engineer types.)
>
>It is getting cold up here and I have a ton of traveling to do this winter.
>
>Tailwinds,
>Doug Rozendaal.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
Reamers of this size (and most any other size for that matter) may be
purchased from MSC Industrial supply. This outfit can supply most any
tooling requirement. The website is: http://www.mscdirect.com
Good luck,
Dean
>From: Leesafur(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV-List(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: reamers
>Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 11:37:20 EST
>
>
>Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the
>0249
>but not the other.
>Thanks
>
>Lee Sahr
>Anoka MN
>RV-3 wing
>
>
Say goodbye to busy signals and slow downloads with a high-speed Internet
connection! Prices start at less than $1 a day average.
https://broadband.msn.com (Prices may vary by service area.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hebeard2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Low Level Oil Sensor |
Rich,
Where is the Low Level Oil sensor hidden on your web site? I have been unable
to find it.
Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Last Minute...? |
Hey Guys
I want to send a contribution, but no way by credit
card---so I'll send a check (Cheque where I came from). OK the instructions
give the address where to send it to, BUT who or what do we make the check
PAYABLE to?- Matronics?--Matt Dralle?--RV List? or-----?
HELP!
Cheers!!--Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater question? LONG |
Garry,
To change the subject a little, what did you do to reduce the volume
of air that comes in from the tail cone? I remember some testing you
did, but don't seem to remember the final results.
Relating to the pressure in the cockpit, I have my Altrak controller
head in the tailcone, and it is NOT plumbed into the static line,
just open to ambient.
I can change the altitude by 20' or so by opening or closing the
vents. Not surprising, but it is interesting.
Laird
>
snipped stuff
>The problem I had initially is the amount of air coming in from the tail
>( I have aileron boots) overwhelmed the hot air and you could hardly
>feel the heat. After I got that volume reduced the heater really
>started working with out doing anything to it.
snip
>Casper
>
>Doug Rozendaal wrote:
>
>>
>>There is a tremendous variation in the outlet temperature between various
>>RVs, I have a question.
>>
>>Do heaters that throttle the air going into the muff yield hotter air than
>>those that throttle the exit air?
>>
>>My thinking here is maybe the restriction on the exit side creates a venturi
>>that has a cooling effect much like blowing compressed air on your hand with
>>a blow gun? A mini ACM, or sonic nozzle?
>>
>>Can we have a little survey with the Northerners, (I mean people who fly in
>>the single digits, 25 deg F is not cold) and see if there is a correlation
>>between good and poor heaters and the location of the flow restriction?
>>
>>My heater works good down to about 20 deg. below that it is marginal. I
>>added pot scrubbers with little if any improvement. My restriction is on
>>the outlet of the Muff. I want to be comfortable.
>>
>>I have flown other RVs that will blow hot air well below Zero F. I can't
>>figure out the difference. I am not talking about leaks, drafts, and cabin
>>insulation, just the exit air temp from the heater vents. (The delta T
>>across the Muff for you engineer types.)
>>
>>It is getting cold up here and I have a ton of traveling to do this winter.
>>
>>Tailwinds,
>>Doug Rozendaal.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
YOUR_INCOME
Hey y'all,
It is also nice to contribute some money so that the list can keep
going. Even if you never post anything you still should be a decent human
being and send Matt a few bucks. You can deduct it from your income tax.
It is also neat to read all your list mail before answering a question as
many others may have already answered. More, your answer might embarrass you!
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
"Re: RV-List: Last Minute...?" (Nov 26, 10:54am)
| Subject: | Re: Last Minute...? |
>--------------
>
>Hey Guys
> I want to send a contribution, but no way by credit
>card---so I'll send a check (Cheque where I came from). OK the instructions
>give the address where to send it to, BUT who or what do we make the check
>PAYABLE to?- Matronics?--Matt Dralle?--RV List? or-----?
> HELP!
>
>Cheers!!--Henry Hore
>--------------
Hi Henry!
You can make the check out to "Matronics".
Thank you for your contribution! Much appreciated!
Matt Dralle
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
Check with Grizzly, Discount-Tools, Pathon, Brown Tool, Cleaveland and Avery.
All carry 5/16 ( .3125) reamers.
Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the 0249
but not the other.
Thanks
Lee Sahr
Anoka MN
RV-3 wing
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
0.3110 02033116 15.02 from MSC Is as close as I could find.
There are adjustables +.010 (5/16 134 4 02510204 $38.37) Don't know if it
could lose a 0.001 Why not just get the full 0.3125 and then use red
loctite for any slop? Might be cheaper and easier just to order precision
bolts for the few you will need. You aren't building a watch.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: <Leesafur(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: reamers
>
> Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the
0249
> but not the other.
> Thanks
>
> Lee Sahr
> Anoka MN
> RV-3 wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil N" <pnewlon(at)toosan.com> |
While we're on this subject.....
If you are running a Microsoft Windows machine and use Internet
Exploder, there is an option under the "Tools" drop down menu to run
"Windows Update". Generally speaking, it is a good idea to run the
update at least weekly and install all "Critical" patches. This should
help to prevent catching some of the more difficult to remedy viruses.
If you run something other than Internet Exploder, go to
http://windowsupdate.microsoft.com and run the update program from
there.
IE gets lots of bad press (deservedly) but that is not the only way for
a Windows machine to get infected.....
Phil
> The solution is to run Norton or McAfee anti-virus software, and keep
> the virus data files up-to-date (both Norton and McAfee have menu
> options to update the files). Both Norton and McAfee have ways to
> remove virii, or offer suggestions how to remove virii, when they are
> found. Another useful program is AdAware, that looks for and removes
> most of the annoying little virii that websites store as
> cookies on your
> system.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meske <rmeske@gcfn.org> (SquirrelMail authenticated user rmeske) by www.gcfn.org with HTTP; Wed, |
26 Nov 2003 15:40:19.-0500(at)matronics.com (EST)
| Subject: | Re: Low Level Oil Sensor |
Hey Harley!
The sensor is on the main page. You have to let the page load first. It
takes awhile because of the graphic content. After it loads, page down.
It is the 4th item down. I have added quite a few products this month.
Rich
www.aircraftextras.com
PS, To all that are still in the process of building, it's worth it!! I am
having lots of fun flying my RV-6 around and meeting other builders as well.
> Rich,
>
> Where is the Low Level Oil sensor hidden on your web site? I have been
> unable to find it.
>
> Harley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Kunkel" <rvator(at)socal.rr.com> |
.2495 is a common size reamer for press fit, close tolerance 1/4" fittings
such as Hi-Loc & Hi Shear. However, we've never seen a .3124 reamer. You'll
probably have to go .005 undersized for close tolerance &/or move up .001 to
a full 5/16 (.3125) reamer.
Blue Skies!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: reamers
>
> 0.3110 02033116 15.02 from MSC Is as close as I could find.
>
> There are adjustables +.010 (5/16 134 4 02510204 $38.37) Don't know if it
> could lose a 0.001 Why not just get the full 0.3125 and then use red
> loctite for any slop? Might be cheaper and easier just to order precision
> bolts for the few you will need. You aren't building a watch.
>
> Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>
> Editor, EAA Safety Programs
> cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>
> Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Leesafur(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: reamers
>
>
> >
> > Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the
> 0249
> > but not the other.
> > Thanks
> >
> > Lee Sahr
> > Anoka MN
> > RV-3 wing
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
You guys all keep stating 0.001" in your replies.
Unless I am mistaken, the difference between 0.3124 and a standard
0.3125 reamer is 0.0001".
I suspect that whoever needs this could use the 0.3125 just fine.
Dick Tasker, 90573
Fred Kunkel wrote:
>
>.2495 is a common size reamer for press fit, close tolerance 1/4" fittings
>such as Hi-Loc & Hi Shear. However, we've never seen a .3124 reamer. You'll
>probably have to go .005 undersized for close tolerance &/or move up .001 to
>a full 5/16 (.3125) reamer.
>
>Blue Skies!
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: reamers
>
>
>
>
>>
>>0.3110 02033116 15.02 from MSC Is as close as I could find.
>>
>>There are adjustables +.010 (5/16 134 4 02510204 $38.37) Don't know if it
>>could lose a 0.001 Why not just get the full 0.3125 and then use red
>>loctite for any slop? Might be cheaper and easier just to order precision
>>bolts for the few you will need. You aren't building a watch.
>>
>>Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
>>
>>Editor, EAA Safety Programs
>>cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
>>
>>Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: <Leesafur(at)aol.com>
>>To:
>>Subject: RV-List: reamers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the
>>>
>>>
>>0249
>>
>>
>>>but not the other.
>>>Thanks
>>>
>>>Lee Sahr
>>>Anoka MN
>>>RV-3 wing
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leesafur(at)aol.com |
I found one at http://www.discount-tools.com/ful-1410d2.cfm Kind of pricey
though. I'm building an RV-3 and with some of the problems that it has had in
the past; I wanted to do it right and fallow the plans. I guess 0.0001 Isn't
going to matter though?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
Dick,
Lucid, concise.....well said!
Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
all keep stating 0.001" in your replies.Unless I am mistaken, the difference between
0.3124 and a standard 0.3125 reamer is 0.0001".I suspect that whoever needs
this could use the 0.3125 just fine.Dick Tasker, 90573
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Delano" <m.delano(at)worldnet.att.net> |
Manhattan supply has the reams you are looking for and they are not very
expensive. They have an extensive web site @ http://www.mscdirect.com/ And
huge print catalog.
A very good company to do business Use the correct size it makes a
difference.
Mark Delano
Tech councilor
N85MD
Flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: reamers
>
> Check with Grizzly, Discount-Tools, Pathon, Brown Tool, Cleaveland and
Avery. All carry 5/16 ( .3125) reamers.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
>
>
> Does any body know where to find a 0.249 & 0.3124 reamer, I can find the
0249
> but not the other.
> Thanks
>
> Lee Sahr
> Anoka MN
> RV-3 wing
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heater question? LONG |
HI Doug,
On my RV-6 I have two heat muffs. Each to its own Vans heat box, the kind
with the flapper. I have 1 1/2" air inlets to the scatt tube that feeds the cold
air to the heat muff.
I flew my daughter to Rochester, MN last year. When we arrived it was 10 F
below, and my daughter and I were really cold.
I spoke to a few RV types in the area and they made some suggestions. I took
their advice and sealed up the cabin before we left.
First I filled in the little V grooves in the back bulkhead with V shaped
foam.
I then used 1/4" rope type foam insulation and glued this to the front roll
bar (I have a slider) where the slider frame hits the front roll bar. I then
used this same rope type foam and glued it to the outside rail of the slider and
the longeron. I also placed some 1/4" wide hollow rubber insulation tape
(about 1/8" thick when compressed) along the edge of the turtle deck. When I close
the canopy, the insulation gets compressed and seals this area.
Someone also suggested 1/2" pipe insulation (the round gray kind you use to
insulate hot water pipes). Cut this to the length of the rail that the rollers
from the slider roll in. When you get in the plane, shut the canopy and place
these pieces of insulation over the slider rail.
I also taped over the NACA ducts on the outside.
With these improvements, my daughter and I took off from Rochester, after
spending 2 extra days hoping the weather would warm up, the temperature at
departure was 12F below. Of course we had our jackets and gloves on but we were
fairly comfortable and could feel heet on our feet. After about 1/2 hour we began
turning the heat down.
Of course by the time we arrived back in Casper, WY - 5 hours later, it was
45F above.
The above tips worked for my plane. I believe most of the cold air comes in
from the back. Although I could feel air coming in at the junction of the front
roll bar and the slider canopy.
I know you have a RV-4, but maybe some of these tips can help.
I don't advise flying in such extreme conditions as we did. I usually won't
fly if it get below 5F above.
Good Luck and Happy Thanksgiving
John Danielson
RV-6 175 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
I'm delighted to report that my RV-9A, N94ME, flew for the first time today.
Everything was just about perfect. The only squawk was that the prop
governor (McCauley) seemed a little too sensitive. The useable range only
requires about 1/2" of travel on the prop control. I've posted a few more
details about the first flights and some pictures here:
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
I would like to thank Matt Dralle for providing this forum and the RV
Listers who freely share their knowledge. I'm certain the insights gained
here contributed to today's successful outcome (yes, I did make my
last-minute contribution to the list today).
I would also like to thank test pilot Rick Vichich for making the first two
flights before handing the airplane over to the low-time builder-pilot for
the day's third flight. EAA Flight Advisor Jerry Thorpe and Technical
Councilors Ron Scott and Fred Keip deserve special recognition as do the
other members of EAA Chapters 18 and 1177 who were always willing to lend a
hand or offer advice. Good friend Quinn Fiske handled the rivet gun in those
areas that couldn't be riveted solo. Most importantly, I would like to thank
my patient wife, Carla, for her help when an extra hand was needed in the
workshop, for moral support and for looking the other way when the Visa
statement arrived each month.
Lastly, I want to thank Van's Aircraft for a great design and a fantastic
kit.
It's difficult to put into words the feeling of accomplishment that I am
feeling right now. After nearly 4 years of effort, I can now clearly see
that this labor of love was worth every minute.
Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day and this year I have something very special to
be thankful for.
Chris Heitman
Builder #90025
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
Awesome!!! Inspiration for the rest of us!
Glenn in Arizona -9A Wings.
----- Original Message -----
From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
Subject: RV-List: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME
>
> I'm delighted to report that my RV-9A, N94ME, flew for the first time
today.
> Everything was just about perfect. The only squawk was that the prop
> governor (McCauley) seemed a little too sensitive. The useable range only
> requires about 1/2" of travel on the prop control. I've posted a few more
> details about the first flights and some pictures here:
> http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
> I would like to thank Matt Dralle for providing this forum and the RV
> Listers who freely share their knowledge. I'm certain the insights gained
> here contributed to today's successful outcome (yes, I did make my
> last-minute contribution to the list today).
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
Congratulations Chris on a job well done. The airplane looks really good and I'm
sure that you can't wait to get back in the air again. How about posting more
pictures of your bird when you get a chance. Have fun, enjoy and be careful.
Jim Streit
90073
fuse
C J Heitman wrote:
>
>I'm delighted to report that my RV-9A, N94ME, flew for the first time today.
>Everything was just about perfect. The only squawk was that the prop
>governor (McCauley) seemed a little too sensitive. The useable range only
>requires about 1/2" of travel on the prop control. I've posted a few more
>details about the first flights and some pictures here:
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>I would like to thank Matt Dralle for providing this forum and the RV
>Listers who freely share their knowledge. I'm certain the insights gained
>here contributed to today's successful outcome (yes, I did make my
>last-minute contribution to the list today).
>
>I would also like to thank test pilot Rick Vichich for making the first two
>flights before handing the airplane over to the low-time builder-pilot for
>the day's third flight. EAA Flight Advisor Jerry Thorpe and Technical
>Councilors Ron Scott and Fred Keip deserve special recognition as do the
>other members of EAA Chapters 18 and 1177 who were always willing to lend a
>hand or offer advice. Good friend Quinn Fiske handled the rivet gun in those
>areas that couldn't be riveted solo. Most importantly, I would like to thank
>my patient wife, Carla, for her help when an extra hand was needed in the
>workshop, for moral support and for looking the other way when the Visa
>statement arrived each month.
>
>Lastly, I want to thank Van's Aircraft for a great design and a fantastic
>kit.
>
>It's difficult to put into words the feeling of accomplishment that I am
>feeling right now. After nearly 4 years of effort, I can now clearly see
>that this labor of love was worth every minute.
>
>Tomorrow is Thanksgiving Day and this year I have something very special to
>be thankful for.
>
>Chris Heitman
>Builder #90025
>Dousman WI
>RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>---
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME |
Chris,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck and Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight for RV-9A N94ME
>Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2003 23:01:06 -0600
>
>
>I'm delighted to report that my RV-9A, N94ME, flew for the first time
>today.
>Everything was just about perfect. The only squawk was that the prop
>governor (McCauley) seemed a little too sensitive. The useable range only
>requires about 1/2" of travel on the prop control. I've posted a few more
>details about the first flights and some pictures here:
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
>
>>
>Chris Heitman
>Builder #90025
>Dousman WI
>RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
>http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
Set yourself up for fun at home! Get tips on home entertainment equipment,
video game reviews, and more here.
http://special.msn.com/home/homeent.armx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Painting slider rail |
Dana,
You know how sometimes you go to someones website and are instantly struck by an
ingenious technique? An RV builder somewhere in Canada, I wish I could recall
his name and give him resounding credit had many of his canopy parts including
the slider rails, gold anodized. I had the same thing done with outstanding
results but upon reflection if I had it to do over, and for strictly enhanced
cosmetic reasons, I would have gone with a gloss black anodized treatment.
The company that does that work here in St. Louis also does extensive military
work. They charged me $90 for a one-time set-up bath. They even included the
documentation only the government loves. Whether you bring in one part or twenty
parts, as long as they fit in one basket, the cost is the same. Anodizing
can be done in a variety of colors, but if you have the work done, be sure the
parts are blemish free because the anodize will not obscure the slightest scratch
like a coat of paint will.
Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
Subject: Painting slider rail.From: Dana Overall (bo124rs(at)hotmail.com)Date:
Thu Nov 27 - 5:09 AM
Happy Thanksgiving to all on the list, just remember what you consume today counts
to gross weight for a couple days:-)I would really like not to leave a polished
piece of alum on the top of my fuselage. I am going to assume that black
Imron would look nice on the slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple
times.Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
kind of penetrant??Dana Overall
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Painting slider rail. |
Dana, I had my rails black anodized using the standard process (not hard
anodized). After nearly two years of dragging air hoses and extension cords
over them (not to mention the clumsy builder climbing over them about 10,000
times) they still look like new. However, I'm sure that hard anodizing would
be even better. You can see the rails in some of the pictures on this page:
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/interior.html
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
Dana, I had my rails black anodized. There is a variety called hard black
anodize that is very tough. It will be flat black if you scotchbrite it, or
shiny black if you polish it first.
John Huft
Pagosa Springs RV8
----- Original Message -----
>
> I would really like not to leave a polished piece of alum on the top of my
> fuselage. I am going to assume that black Imron would look nice on the
> slider rail until I opened the canopy a couple times.
>
> Anybody got any good ideas, ie., gun metal "black" it, stain it with some
> kind of penetrant??
>
> Dana Overall
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mcmahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | ACS Bad 8.8 oz BID cloth |
Head's up Boy's & Girl's
Have found out that ACS sent out some defective 8.8 oz Bi-directional
cloth #RA7725
page 30 in ACS cat..The symptom is that the cloth is to stiff,it will
not go around the
compound curves like it should!! Called ACS and they said that they
shipped out
some defective cloth,and sent me another order right away,with a return
ARS label
to return the old cloth..
John McMahon (Close to Paint) RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
Chesapeake Distributing 703-704-6544, has everything for the tool & die trade.
Tell them Dave sent you & they'll say who?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | graftable ram air inlet |
Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my RV-7
IO smooth bottom cowl.
Long story:
On my RV-7 with IO-360-A1B6 (fwd facing sump) and Airflow Performance
injection, I found that the stock IO filtered airbox from Van's (cornucopia
from the square K&N filter on the left baffle down to the fuel controller
barrel), didn't fit worth diddly. The real issue is that the FM-200
controller (Airflow Performance, not Bendix) is bigger and longer than the
Bendix. It comes much further forward than "stock." Also, the throat is
much larger, and there's no flat flange to secure the bottom of the FAB to.
I've brought all of this up before, and this time I'm just laying it all out
for context. Here's where I'm at...
I'd really like to integrate ram air system into my intake. A valve/door
operated system that would utilize filtered air down low, where particulate
ingestion would be undesirable, and it would utilize direct, unfiltered ram
air above some altitude I determine appropriate depending on conditions. I
had ram air systems in my Mooneys, and they worked well to boost manifold
pressure (more speed! more speed!) when you open that sucker up at altitude.
I know Van says in his FAB install doc that he tried ram air with minimal
success. I've taken that into consideration, but I believe a well-designed
system will function very well. You can't tell me that all those HR's out
there with ram air aren't gaining inches and resulting performance from
their ram air setups.
Airflow Performance sells a pre-fab "alternate air intake" system, which is
basically a tube that mates up with the FM-200, with a little side offshoot
tube designed either to have a filter mount directly on it, or to take input
from a filter located elsewhere. I would either buy this system from AFP,
or I would fabricate my own as many people have done with success. I think
that's probably the easy part.
As for the INLET in the cowl, however, that's where my question lies today.
I'm wondering if the Harmon Rocket folks out there, or maybe the Sam James
folks out there, (or whoever) can point me in the right direction. What I'm
looking for is an inlet...either round like the Sam James setup, or "smiley"
like the HR setup...that I can "graft" onto my Van's RV-7 IO cowling with
minimal fuss & muss. I'm trying to avoid having to mold anything like this
from scratch, because I'm a fiberglass/epoxy newbie to say the least! I'd
like it to be at least 3" to 3.5" ID, nice and radiused, interface well with
scat on the inside, or be able to airseal right up to the barrel, etc.
Can anybody point me at a source for a pre-fab graftable inlet that would
work as an under-spinner-area ram air inlet?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Heater question? LONG |
Hey Laird,
As you know I've been playing with this for a while. I've tried:
1.- Shark Gill slits just in front of flaps, they reduced the volume of
air, but not completely. May leave them on, need to tuft test them, but
my camera ship was down for a while so the jury is still out.
2.- Ramped outlet on the bottom of fuselage. Worked great, except at
slower speeds (approach to landing, stalls etc.) airflow reversed and
brought with it lots of exhaust gases.
3.- Rear facing scoop on outside of fuselage just behind cabin (won't
work with slider). Worked great until I put in the required insect
screen which reduced the effective area and now there is a slight tail
pressure bias and the CO with it.
Andrea and I have spent hours with a really good CO detector finding
the source, and it is definitely the tail. I've had foam wedges on the
bulkhead wall for a couple of years and they help, but the air is still
coming in around the elevator tube hole and every other penetration.
I believe the solution is to stop the air at the source and that's what
I'll be playing with over the next few weeks.
Right know the aircraft is down for maintenance:
Replacing cracked fab mount plate (hairline cracks by the two back bolt
holes) even though the plate edges where highly polished, the cracks
started in mid section, not near the radius, and my cowl to fab box
connection is much more isolated then most RVs, go figure.
Replacing tab washers with drilled head bolts, that's when I discovered
above.
Installing Vans air box flapper mod (alternate air).
And last but not least reinstalling my upgraded Whirl Wind prop with the
latest (151) blades, supposedly 5 to 7 MPH faster. So we should get
together one of these day and do another comparison. Last time you were
2 to 3 MPH faster, so we should be able to see if Whirl Wind is full of
do-do or not. Take care and have a great Thanksgiving.
Casper.
Laird Owens wrote:
>
>Garry,
>
>To change the subject a little, what did you do to reduce the volume
>of air that comes in from the tail cone? I remember some testing you
>did, but don't seem to remember the final results.
>
>snip
>
I can change the altitude by 20' or so by opening or closing the
>vents. Not surprising, but it is interesting.
>
>Laird
>
>======
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Well,
I have been resisting making a contribution because I already have all the
cool gifts that can come with the donation. And what I really wanted was the
fuel flow pulsation damper instead.
So I gave up my whiney mood and donated and ordered what I wanted....
thanks Matt, information is everything,
Question 1, does the damper's inlet tube extend into it some so that a
negative g manuever won't purge the bubble?
Question 2, will it work on either side of the transducer, or is one
prefered over the other. My inlet side is limited in line space, so I may
have to reboot and redo the whole section of the system if it needs to be
there.
thx
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: graftable ram air inlet |
When you get done, I doubt if you will even add an inch of MP especially
after friction losses. Check to see what pressure an airpeed needs to
indicate 200 MPH. You will be surprised.
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: RV-List: graftable ram air inlet
>
> Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my
RV-7
> IO smooth bottom cowl.
>
> Long story:
>
> On my RV-7 with IO-360-A1B6 (fwd facing sump) and Airflow Performance
> injection, I found that the stock IO filtered airbox from Van's
(cornucopia
> from the square K&N filter on the left baffle down to the fuel controller
> barrel), didn't fit worth diddly. The real issue is that the FM-200
> controller (Airflow Performance, not Bendix) is bigger and longer than the
> Bendix. It comes much further forward than "stock." Also, the throat is
> much larger, and there's no flat flange to secure the bottom of the FAB
to.
>
> I've brought all of this up before, and this time I'm just laying it all
out
> for context. Here's where I'm at...
>
> I'd really like to integrate ram air system into my intake. A valve/door
> operated system that would utilize filtered air down low, where
particulate
> ingestion would be undesirable, and it would utilize direct, unfiltered
ram
> air above some altitude I determine appropriate depending on conditions.
I
> had ram air systems in my Mooneys, and they worked well to boost manifold
> pressure (more speed! more speed!) when you open that sucker up at
altitude.
>
> I know Van says in his FAB install doc that he tried ram air with minimal
> success. I've taken that into consideration, but I believe a
well-designed
> system will function very well. You can't tell me that all those HR's out
> there with ram air aren't gaining inches and resulting performance from
> their ram air setups.
>
> Airflow Performance sells a pre-fab "alternate air intake" system, which
is
> basically a tube that mates up with the FM-200, with a little side
offshoot
> tube designed either to have a filter mount directly on it, or to take
input
> from a filter located elsewhere. I would either buy this system from AFP,
> or I would fabricate my own as many people have done with success. I
think
> that's probably the easy part.
>
> As for the INLET in the cowl, however, that's where my question lies
today.
> I'm wondering if the Harmon Rocket folks out there, or maybe the Sam James
> folks out there, (or whoever) can point me in the right direction. What
I'm
> looking for is an inlet...either round like the Sam James setup, or
"smiley"
> like the HR setup...that I can "graft" onto my Van's RV-7 IO cowling with
> minimal fuss & muss. I'm trying to avoid having to mold anything like
this
> from scratch, because I'm a fiberglass/epoxy newbie to say the least! I'd
> like it to be at least 3" to 3.5" ID, nice and radiused, interface well
with
> scat on the inside, or be able to airseal right up to the barrel, etc.
>
> Can anybody point me at a source for a pre-fab graftable inlet that would
> work as an under-spinner-area ram air inlet?
>
> Thanks in advance,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>Thanks for this list and the people on it, too, by the way. Even the
>occasional grouch..........
I'm so thankful for the list, my most valuable tool in building Valentine
(N7HK) that I made a contribution!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted systems.
Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there is
no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
should have a double seat belt system too.)
Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
them at all, and even fewer like them.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
"rocket-list"
| Subject: | NOW WHO DID YOU SAY WAS "AWOL' ? |
Can you imagine flying over the dark Atlantic as a "boomer" of a tanker
and see the nose of Air Force One emerge from the darkness & show up for
fuel. God, what a feeling that must have been. From placing himself in harms
way to learn to fly a single seat fighter (F-102) to the surprise visit,
AGAIN in harms way, in Baghdad. Thank God we have a warrior in the White
House and not some wimp. Way to go George. I'M NOT sorry if I offend
anyone, that's your problem. Get over it. KABONG
Putting rear seat rudder peddles and power control in HRII N561FS. No prop
or mixture yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6 |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
All,
I recently inquired to the list of anyone having made baggage modifications to
support large items (golf glubs, etc.). I got a lot of great pictures in email,
and I thought I would share with the bunch:
http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/golf.htm
On another note...anyone out there flying with the new Engenfellner 6 cylinder
(H6)? It sure sounds tempting, and I would be curious to see the performance
data (especially at altitude). A quick search of the archives didn't reveal anything.
THanks,
Scott Haskins
RV7A Wings
http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Flop tube - time to install |
Just as an addition to Doug's well placed commnents, even with the hookers,
inverted fuel/oil, it's VERY hard to get the seatbelts tight enough for
sustained inverted flight in the Side by Side RV's. The seatbelt geometry
is from behind your waste, so even with them ratcheted down and the crotch
strap tight, you can find yourself "sliding down the seatback" when
inverted. I've done it more than once, but it's not nearly as fun as the
positive stuff anyway. You really don't know how dirty your cockpit is
until you fly sustained negative G's, plus if you don't put EVERYTHING away,
you'll get smacked in the head by your errant chart, fuel tester, or
anything else that is not secured (don't ask me how I know).
As Doug said, most whifferdills that you will do are positive anyway! If I
had it to do again, and I am....I left the flop tube out!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
N664SB - Inverted Fuel/Oil
N64YU - No Inverted Fuel/Oil
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted systems.
Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there is
no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
should have a double seat belt system too.)
Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
them at all, and even fewer like them.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
I have no experience with Van's flop tube, but the one in the Christen Eagle
used to fail. Had to cut hole in tank to fix.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
>
> Just as an addition to Doug's well placed commnents, even with the
hookers,
> inverted fuel/oil, it's VERY hard to get the seatbelts tight enough for
> sustained inverted flight in the Side by Side RV's. The seatbelt geometry
> is from behind your waste, so even with them ratcheted down and the crotch
> strap tight, you can find yourself "sliding down the seatback" when
> inverted. I've done it more than once, but it's not nearly as fun as the
> positive stuff anyway. You really don't know how dirty your cockpit is
> until you fly sustained negative G's, plus if you don't put EVERYTHING
away,
> you'll get smacked in the head by your errant chart, fuel tester, or
> anything else that is not secured (don't ask me how I know).
>
> As Doug said, most whifferdills that you will do are positive anyway! If
I
> had it to do again, and I am....I left the flop tube out!
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> N664SB - Inverted Fuel/Oil
> N64YU - No Inverted Fuel/Oil
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Rozendaal
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flop tube - time to install
>
>
> You can do all the "gentlemens acro" you want without any inverted
systems.
>
> Unless you have a 5 point harness, fuel injection and inverted oil, there
is
> no reason for, and you should not install, inverted fuel. (You really
> should have a double seat belt system too.)
>
> Inverted systems are for sustained negative "G"s and most people don't do
> them at all, and even fewer like them.
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
> RV-4 Inverted fuel, oil & 5 point hooker, pondering a second seat belt.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | graftable ram air inlet |
Dan
How about someone who has an old style cowl bottom that had no provision for
a filter and is changing it to a larger scoop and filter. A friend I fly
with did this last year. He is in Florida for the winter, and I don't think
he monitors the list, but if that is the size you need, I could email and
ask if he still has the ram air scoop he cut off his bottom cowl.
Joe Hine
RV4 C-FYTQ
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: RV-List: graftable ram air inlet
Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my RV-7
IO smooth bottom cowl.
Long story:
On my RV-7 with IO-360-A1B6 (fwd facing sump) and Airflow Performance
injection, I found that the stock IO filtered airbox from Van's (cornucopia
from the square K&N filter on the left baffle down to the fuel controller
barrel), didn't fit worth diddly. The real issue is that the FM-200
controller (Airflow Performance, not Bendix) is bigger and longer than the
Bendix. It comes much further forward than "stock." Also, the throat is
much larger, and there's no flat flange to secure the bottom of the FAB to.
I've brought all of this up before, and this time I'm just laying it all out
for context. Here's where I'm at...
I'd really like to integrate ram air system into my intake. A valve/door
operated system that would utilize filtered air down low, where particulate
ingestion would be undesirable, and it would utilize direct, unfiltered ram
air above some altitude I determine appropriate depending on conditions. I
had ram air systems in my Mooneys, and they worked well to boost manifold
pressure (more speed! more speed!) when you open that sucker up at altitude.
I know Van says in his FAB install doc that he tried ram air with minimal
success. I've taken that into consideration, but I believe a well-designed
system will function very well. You can't tell me that all those HR's out
there with ram air aren't gaining inches and resulting performance from
their ram air setups.
Airflow Performance sells a pre-fab "alternate air intake" system, which is
basically a tube that mates up with the FM-200, with a little side offshoot
tube designed either to have a filter mount directly on it, or to take input
from a filter located elsewhere. I would either buy this system from AFP,
or I would fabricate my own as many people have done with success. I think
that's probably the easy part.
As for the INLET in the cowl, however, that's where my question lies today.
I'm wondering if the Harmon Rocket folks out there, or maybe the Sam James
folks out there, (or whoever) can point me in the right direction. What I'm
looking for is an inlet...either round like the Sam James setup, or "smiley"
like the HR setup...that I can "graft" onto my Van's RV-7 IO cowling with
minimal fuss & muss. I'm trying to avoid having to mold anything like this
from scratch, because I'm a fiberglass/epoxy newbie to say the least! I'd
like it to be at least 3" to 3.5" ID, nice and radiused, interface well with
scat on the inside, or be able to airseal right up to the barrel, etc.
Can anybody point me at a source for a pre-fab graftable inlet that would
work as an under-spinner-area ram air inlet?
Thanks in advance,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Burnett" <smileyburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6 |
Almost everyone has more knowledge than I as my RV-6A is a long way from
flying yet. It will sport the Eggenfellner 4 cyl. fire wall forward
package. I would be concerned about the effect on C.G. with a set of golf
clubs that far aft.
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: Golf Club Mod / Subaru H6
>
>
> All,
>
> I recently inquired to the list of anyone having made baggage
modifications to support large items (golf glubs, etc.). I got a lot of
great pictures in email, and I thought I would share with the bunch:
>
> http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a/golf.htm
>
> On another note...anyone out there flying with the new Engenfellner 6
cylinder (H6)? It sure sounds tempting, and I would be curious to see the
performance data (especially at altitude). A quick search of the archives
didn't reveal anything.
>
> THanks,
> Scott Haskins
> RV7A Wings
> http://sky.prohosting.com/rv7a
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
Chuck,
First of all, let me say, that I do sustained inverted and get up to -2 "G"s
in my -4 and if someone wants to do that, I would not want to, and apoligize
for, discouraging anyone from that. It is not comfortable, and most pilots
will never need inverted systems.
I think the IAC competitions require double belts, maybe at the higher
levels. Anyone know? You are correct that the second seatbelt would add
some time to a quick exit. My thinking is twofold.
First, low altitude acro (airshow flying, I am thinking about a simple
airshow routine in the -4 nest summer) the chute is of little value, and
catching your cuff on the seatbelt and falling in the canopy could be
deadly. (I know a guy who had this happen on an inverted pass and he will
tell you the second seatbelt is essential)
Secondly, I have a wedge shaped tiny seatpack that fits behind the spar, but
I don't wear it. I probably should, but it I don't fit in the airplane very
well with it, and it is horribly uncomfortable. So as you can see, The
second seatbelt would not have a safety downside for me.
This, just like about everything in aviation is a compromise.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
>
> Doug,
>
> In my RV-4 I too have fuel injection, inverted oil, and a 5 point
> harness, but after installing the secondary (double) seat belt set-up I
> removed it for one MAJOR reason.... I found it complicates exiting the
> aircraft with my chute, should I need to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop tube - time to install |
linn walters wrote:
> You have to wear a parachute if you're going to do aerobatics. Period.
Not in Canada.
-Rob (in Canada)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Uvanni <buvanni(at)us.ibm.com> |
28, 2003) at 11/28/2003 09:24:42
Listers: Weather permitting, I plan on flying down to
Florida early December to visit my parents. They live
in Satellite Beach. My question is, Which airport is better to fly into:
Merritt Island or Melbourne. Does anyone down there have extra
space in a hanger for a n RV-6A? If not which airport would be safer
to have the plane tied down at?
Thanks for your help.......
Flying 2003 Van's RV-6A
Murphy Moose tail kit on order
BRUCE UVANNI
BUVANNI(at)US.IBM.COM
PHONE: (802) 769-7364 Tie line (446)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | empennage tip attachment |
Has anyone attached their empennage tips using a bonding adhesive
instead of the recommended cs4-4 rivets?
What about using the smaller mk319-bs or non-structural c/s pop rivets?
A quick look in the archives yielded only a reference to #6 screws.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com |
| Subject: | graftable ram air inlet |
-----Original Message-----
----Short story: I'm looking for a ram air inlet that I can "graft" onto my RV-7
-----IO smooth bottom cowl.
I know this isn't what you asked but....
I fabricated a new air inlet for my 6A. I cut off the old one (discarded long
ago) shaped some hard foam to fit over the filterbox in the general shape of the
scoop I wanted and finished the shaping with modeling clay. I then put a few
coats of release agent on this, put the lower cowl in place and started laying
up fiberglass over the mold. after it was dry, then the process of getting
it just like I wanted with microballon/glass fiber filler and then the endless
messing to get fiberglass smooth.
It is an option.
Ross Mickey
N9PT Flying ;<))))
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | What Listers Are Saying III |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
Anyone out there know the correct Greenlee crimper die needed for crimping standard
insulated (red, yellow, blue) connectors (ring, spade, butt, etc.)? I have
the "Kwik-Cycle 9" crimpers with coax dies, but I would like to just get a
new set of dies rather than another crimper.
In looking through the web I found two different die part numbers...45509 and 45570.
I can't seem to figure out which one I need.
http://www.twacomm.com/Catalog/Jmp_Greenlee/Dept_ID_393.htm
Thanks for the help,
Scott Haskins
7A Wings
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | S-Tec 30 testing woes.... |
Folks,
I have been testing my panel components as I go along and have run into a particularly
ornery piece of equipment to troubleshoot. I don't want to 'blame the
box' immediately so I thought that I would ask around first.
Here's what I have:
S-Tec 30 dual axis autopilot coupled to,
NSD1000 HSI and
UPSAT GX60/SL30/ACU via
S-Tec GPSS (steering) switch.
Here's the itch:
With the autopilot gyro all spooled up, I first get the ready light and the four
inner lights lit as it goes through its self test...then the four inner lights
go out and the ready light only stays on. This is without the pitch computer's
cable attached (seems normal to me).
When I attach the pitch computer's cable attached, the unit never comes up as ready.
I've run all of the wiring to make sure that there are no opens or shorts....good
to go. I have power on the power pin at the pitch computer's connector
but I don't have the 10VDC at the alt hold disconnect switch wire (its wires
are good too).
Anyone else out there had this problem? I'm beginning to suspect the pitch computer
unit...!
Any help would be greatly appreciated,
Ralph Capen
RV6A Richardson, TX
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage tip attachment(long) |
Just finished this process and learned a few things that might save others
some work. I'm new to RV building but have considerable composite
experience. First, I think the attachment process is lame. It works but
could be so much simpler. Here is what I did. Your mileage may vary but it
works for me. I would also add, don't wait to do your glass work, make it a
work in progress while other construction is going on.
1) I disagree with the dimpling of the stabilizer, elevators, rudder and
horiz stabilizer skin then counter sinking the fiberglass parts. I simply
used the deburring bit as a counter sink for the CS4-4's. They are very thin
so the skin has plenty of material for a secure attachment. Worked great!!
They are flush and there is no need to deface the fiberglass on the
attachment lip.
2) Prior to permanently attaching I used structural foam (used in composite
plane construction available at ACS) to cap the ends. The art foam will work
but is quite soft. Be sure to clean and rough the inside. A layer of FG
cloth was added to the exterior and a couple of strips to bond from the
inside. Only use enough epoxy to fill the weave.
3) The parts are now permanently attached.
Stop here if you don't want or care about completely filling in the glass to
the metal for that composite look.
4) Scuff the gel coat off the glass parts 1" out from the seam. Scuff up
the aluminum in the same manner. Clean with degreaser.
5) Mix a thick batch of micro balloons and epoxy. I use West Systems epoxy.
Using your wife's credit card (or your husband's, Roberta) as a squeegee to
fill in the seam and any low areas including the holes in the CS4's. If you
do this properly you'll have little sanding to do.
6) Sand smooth, always with a true sanding block and clean with degreaser.
Now add a 1" strip of fiberglass cloth to the seam with epoxy. Again only
use enough to fill the weave. Sand off the shine when cured.
7) Now do the same process as #5 until all low areas are filled and the
transition is perfect. I used Feather Fill at this point to get it perfect.
This sands like butter but is very hard and adheres!!!
8) When you think you have it sand down to 320 grit wet/dry paper (dry).
Clean with degreaser and prime with a fill type spray primer from a can.
Use a sanding block with the 320 paper, wet. Now you'll see all of the
boogers you couldn't see before.
the low areas will still have primer. Redo with filler if the low areas are
still deep. If not, I now transition to a spot filler that dries quickly and
sticks like mad. Continue until perfect.
For some this will seem like lots of work. The beauty of this process is
that you can have these parts set up on a couple of saw horses and work on
them when you tire of a current task. It is a nice diversion and you can
take several months if you want to while doing other stuff.
Some will say this adds weight. You're correct it does. But for the record I
kept track of the epoxy and filler used for the process for the entire tail
group, 4.2 oz. Now lots of the epoxy mixture wasn't used and much of that
applied was sanded off. I doubt 2 oz was the overall net weight gain.
Again, this was my method. With the extensive experience on the lists others
may have techniques beneficial to all. Feel free to contact me with any
questions.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie & Tupper England" <cengland(at)netdoor.com>
Subject: RV-List: empennage tip attachment
>
> Has anyone attached their empennage tips using a bonding adhesive
> instead of the recommended cs4-4 rivets?
> What about using the smaller mk319-bs or non-structural c/s pop rivets?
>
> A quick look in the archives yielded only a reference to #6 screws.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-owned tools for sale? |
> All, since I recently bought the -7QB kit, it strikes me that I'll need
> to buy some tools to build the silly thing. Details!
>
> So, are there any of you who have completed your aerospace vehicles
> willing to part with some or all of the tools you used? I know there are
> several retailers who offer (relatively) complete kits for various
> models of RV, and I may actually get one if it turns out that ALL of you
> want to keep ALL of your tools because ALL of you want to become repeat
> offenders. Who knows? I may, too!
Hi Randy,
You may find someone who started building and quit who wants to sell their
tools. I'm not sure how many builders who completed a plane would want to
sell. Seems like you need the capability to repair and modify your plane
and still need the tools...
You might check out Mike Stewart's website and look at "tools needed". It's
a good list of required, nice to have and great if money is no object:
http://www.mstewart.net/michael/rv/
In addition to Avery and Cleveland, also check out "The Yard" They have
lots of used and new aviation surplus:
http://yardstore.com/
Also:
http://www.planetools.com/New4default.htm
and a huge list:
http://www.homebuilt.org/vendors/p&e/tools.html
Deals on some things can be found on ebay too.
Good luck!
When you are tired of shopping for tools:
http://www.uss-bennington.org/hu-aviationtools.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | When the vibration stops |
Listers,
Just got in from Fort Worth via an all night stay at Terre Haute. I left
Mt. Vernon (MVN) on the way to Warsaw in 2000 ft. ceilings and reported ice
from 4-6000 ft. I filed IFR at 3000 because that's as low as they would give
me, and climbing on top would have put me in ice for longer than I wanted to
be. Twelve miles north of Terre Haute my airspeed indicator went to zero. I
told Terra Haute I wanted to spend the night with them. I received radar
vectors to HUF started to 1500 ft , made the turn south and the engine quit
when I reduced power. I had carb heat on and throttle full open, I had to
jockey the mixture at the full lean position. I pulsed the engine for eight
miles. These RVs take very little power to keep them afloat. Finally the
engine would take a richer mixture and started running OK as I got to the
airport. Made a good landing and approach thanked me for not making them do
a lot of paperwork. My controller at Terre Haute talked to me continually
and indicated places to sit down if I had too, he was a Godsend.
Chad Williams and the guys at the Flight Center put my RV4 in a heated
hanger to let the ice melt off last night.
Last night it dawned on me that a lot of you listers probably have the
same carb heat set-up that I do. You use a heat muff around the pipes to get
cabin heat and carb heat. IF YOU GET CARB ICE, TURN THE CABIN HEAT OFF WHILE
YOU'RE TRYING TO GET YOUR ENGINE TO RUN AGAIN. I didn't think of this until
last night in the motel room. ALSO, WHEN THEY SAY ICE, THEY MEAN ICE. I
didn't have pitot heat because I wasn't going to be foolish enough to fly in
icing conditions, RIGHT!
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Older and Wiser
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | deburring in impossible places |
I need a different approach to deburring areas like the underside of the
floor board ribs for the platenuts and pop rivets. My way is taking forever since
I can't use my normal deburring tools.
What other methods are folks using?
thanks,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
On Nov 29, 2003, at 10:02 AM, RV8ter(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I need a different approach to deburring areas like the underside of
> the
> floor board ribs for the platenuts and pop rivets. My way is taking
> forever since
> I can't use my normal deburring tools.
>
> What other methods are folks using?
>
> thanks,
> lucky
I'm using my right angle drill adapter. The debur bit threads into the
adapter and then I bought a knurled knob at radio shack to turn the
shaft. Works great. For really difficult places, I just use a small
flat needle file.
Jim Daniels
http://home.comcast.net/~jwdanie/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pre-owned tools for sale? |
Randy,
One of the most useful tools is the RV List. I guess you know that by
now. You will find it more valuable than some of the so called required
tools.
Make a donation to Matronics so we can keep it going. It will be better
money spent than a rivet fan.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
Use emery cloth.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <RV8ter(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: deburring in impossible places
>
> I need a different approach to deburring areas like the underside of the
> floor board ribs for the platenuts and pop rivets. My way is taking
forever since
> I can't use my normal deburring tools.
>
> What other methods are folks using?
>
> thanks,
> lucky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
>Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:20:00 -0600
>
>
>Use emery cloth.
>
>Paul Besing
>RV-6A Sold
>RV-10 Soon
>http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
>Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
>http://www.kitlog.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <RV8ter(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: deburring in impossible places
>
>
> >
> > I need a different approach to deburring areas like the underside of the
> > floor board ribs for the platenuts and pop rivets. My way is taking
>forever since
> > I can't use my normal deburring tools.
> >
> > What other methods are folks using?
> >
> > thanks,
> > lucky
Or, drag a flat file along the underside of the those ribs to knock off the
chunks. Scotchbrite pads work too.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 51
Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are
always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Kitty Hawk Lodging Available - OFF TOPIC |
FOR_JUST_SOME_AMT 0.20,
ONLY_COST.0.21(at)matronics.com, SPAM_PHRASE_00_01.0.78(at)matronics.com
Hello All,
I have some nice lodging space available during the week of celebration
at Kitty Hawk for the centennial of powered flight - it's only 1-2 miles
away from the main activities. Available 12/13-12/19 for only $300! If
you are interested please reply to me privately - not the list.
Thanks!
todd.wenzel@wenzel-software.com
Todd Wenzel
Delafield, WI USA
RV-8AQB - Finish Kit
N900TW - Reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
Thanks for the replies. I already am doing the dubur bit in finger followed
by scotchbrite pad method but was hoping to find another way. I'll keep my
eyes open for the 90 degree drill adapter that fits the bit.
I was wondering if there was a dremel tool dubur tool or something similar
that did good job. The grinding stones I've always seen are too coarse for
this job. Anyone know differently?
Thanks,
lucky
>From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: deburring in impossible places
>Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 19:37:49 +0000
>
>
> >Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2003 13:20:00 -0600
> >
> >
> >Use emery cloth.
> >
> >Paul Besing
> >RV-6A Sold
> >RV-10 Soon
> >http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
> >Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
> >http://www.kitlog.com
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: <RV8ter(at)aol.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: deburring in impossible places
> >
> >
> > >
> > > I need a different approach to deburring areas like the underside of
>the
> > > floor board ribs for the platenuts and pop rivets. My way is taking
> >forever since
> > > I can't use my normal deburring tools.
> > >
> > > What other methods are folks using?
> > >
> > > thanks,
> > > lucky
>
>Or, drag a flat file along the underside of the those ribs to knock off the
>chunks. Scotchbrite pads work too.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>RV10 51
>
>Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are
>always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free!
>
>
Need a shot of Hank Williams or Patsy Cline? The classic country stars are
always singing on MSN Radio Plus. Try one month free!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: When the vibration stops |
Jim,
Thanks for posting your story on the RV-List. We all need to learn
from each other's experiences, so it is good that you shared this.
Good job keeping that engine running til it smoothed out.
Do you have Van's alternate air mod? It's not 100% clear to me
whether you had carb ice, or whether some super-cooled water droplets
or precip was freezing in your air filter. If the air filter was
getting blocked, the alternate air door might have been useful.
Could I get your permission to post your message on my web site too?
If you want, I can remove your name and N-number. I'll certainly
remove the e-mail address, so it doesn't get harvested by the spam
bots.
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>Listers,
> Just got in from Fort Worth via an all night stay at Terre Haute. I left
>Mt. Vernon (MVN) on the way to Warsaw in 2000 ft. ceilings and reported ice
>from 4-6000 ft. I filed IFR at 3000 because that's as low as they would give
>me, and climbing on top would have put me in ice for longer than I wanted to
>be. Twelve miles north of Terre Haute my airspeed indicator went to zero. I
>told Terra Haute I wanted to spend the night with them. I received radar
>vectors to HUF started to 1500 ft , made the turn south and the engine quit
>when I reduced power. I had carb heat on and throttle full open, I had to
>jockey the mixture at the full lean position. I pulsed the engine for eight
>miles. These RVs take very little power to keep them afloat. Finally the
>engine would take a richer mixture and started running OK as I got to the
>airport. Made a good landing and approach thanked me for not making them do
>a lot of paperwork. My controller at Terre Haute talked to me continually
>and indicated places to sit down if I had too, he was a Godsend.
> Chad Williams and the guys at the Flight Center put my RV4 in a heated
>hanger to let the ice melt off last night.
> Last night it dawned on me that a lot of you listers probably have the
>same carb heat set-up that I do. You use a heat muff around the pipes to get
>cabin heat and carb heat. IF YOU GET CARB ICE, TURN THE CABIN HEAT OFF WHILE
>YOU'RE TRYING TO GET YOUR ENGINE TO RUN AGAIN. I didn't think of this until
>last night in the motel room. ALSO, WHEN THEY SAY ICE, THEY MEAN ICE. I
>didn't have pitot heat because I wasn't going to be foolish enough to fly in
>icing conditions, RIGHT!
>Jim Nolan
>N444JN
>Older and Wiser
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: When the vibration stops |
I agree with Kevin that you did a great job of doing what it takes to
fly the airplane and have a safe ending
and are to be congratulated for keeping a cool head Now I can't let this
go without asking why you would
file and fly into KNOWN icing conditions? I know that you said the ice
was from 4000-6000 ft and you
filed for 3000 ft but still I would not have done that myself because no
one can predict that closely at what
level the ice well really start and stop. IMO
Jerry
do not arhcive
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>Jim,
>
>Thanks for posting your story on the RV-List. We all need to learn
>from each other's experiences, so it is good that you shared this.
>Good job keeping that engine running til it smoothed out.
>
>Do you have Van's alternate air mod? It's not 100% clear to me
>whether you had carb ice, or whether some super-cooled water droplets
>or precip was freezing in your air filter. If the air filter was
>getting blocked, the alternate air door might have been useful.
>
>Could I get your permission to post your message on my web site too?
>If you want, I can remove your name and N-number. I'll certainly
>remove the e-mail address, so it doesn't get harvested by the spam
>bots.
>
>Take care,
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
>
>
>
>>
>>Listers,
>> Just got in from Fort Worth via an all night stay at Terre Haute. I left
>>Mt. Vernon (MVN) on the way to Warsaw in 2000 ft. ceilings and reported ice
>>
>>
>>from 4-6000 ft. I filed IFR at 3000 because that's as low as they would give
>
>
>>me, and climbing on top would have put me in ice for longer than I wanted to
>>be. Twelve miles north of Terre Haute my airspeed indicator went to zero. I
>>told Terra Haute I wanted to spend the night with them. I received radar
>>vectors to HUF started to 1500 ft , made the turn south and the engine quit
>>when I reduced power. I had carb heat on and throttle full open, I had to
>>jockey the mixture at the full lean position. I pulsed the engine for eight
>>miles. These RVs take very little power to keep them afloat. Finally the
>>engine would take a richer mixture and started running OK as I got to the
>>airport. Made a good landing and approach thanked me for not making them do
>>a lot of paperwork. My controller at Terre Haute talked to me continually
>>and indicated places to sit down if I had too, he was a Godsend.
>> Chad Williams and the guys at the Flight Center put my RV4 in a heated
>>hanger to let the ice melt off last night.
>> Last night it dawned on me that a lot of you listers probably have the
>>same carb heat set-up that I do. You use a heat muff around the pipes to get
>>cabin heat and carb heat. IF YOU GET CARB ICE, TURN THE CABIN HEAT OFF WHILE
>>YOU'RE TRYING TO GET YOUR ENGINE TO RUN AGAIN. I didn't think of this until
>>last night in the motel room. ALSO, WHEN THEY SAY ICE, THEY MEAN ICE. I
>>didn't have pitot heat because I wasn't going to be foolish enough to fly in
>>icing conditions, RIGHT!
>>Jim Nolan
>>N444JN
>>Older and Wiser
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Large Scale RC model |
Listers,
Aircraft Extras has recently started offering a large scale RC flying model kit
of the RV-6(A). I may be interested in purchasing the kit as a sort of *Mini-Me*
companion to its namesake. Will anyone who has purchased this RC kit care
to comment (either publicly or off-list) as to the quality and value of this
new offering? I would appreciate any and all customer reviews. Thanks.
Rick Galati RV-6A finishing
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | deburring in impossible places |
Hi Lucky,
A bit of fine grit sand paper, emery cloth, or scothbrite will be fine.
Don't get to wrapped up, they're just platenuts after all, nothing super
dooper important. Just knock off the sharp edges with something and you'll
be fine!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV8ter(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: deburring in impossible places
I need a different approach to deburring areas like the underside of the
floor board ribs for the platenuts and pop rivets. My way is taking forever
since
I can't use my normal deburring tools.
What other methods are folks using?
thanks,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
Lucky,
Amongst some tools I inherited from a cousin that did a lot of
machine work, were some deburring tools that are used (I think) in milling
machines. They have a 3/8" shank and taper down to narrow diameters to fit
drilled holes, but the business end has a ground-out slot with a sharp barb
that deburrs a drilled hole as the tool is rotated and as the tool is
withdrawn, the barb contacts the burr in the hole and removes it. I used
them by sticking the tool in the hole and turning the shank by hand. Did a
great job! I didn't have one for #12 holes so I took the shank of a smaller
drill and ground a slot in it (with a Dremel with the 1/12" cut-off disc),
emulating the slot and sharp edge of the proper tool and it did the job
well. The ground-out slot has to be wider than the material you are
inserting the tool into and the bottom of the slot is slanted to make a
sharp edge, which does the job of removing the burr as you hook it in the
hole and pull-up as you rotate it.
Hard to describe, but hope this gives you the idea. There are many places
that these tools were used.
Cheers!!------Henry Hore
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Really long winded Icing dribble, was : When the vibration stops |
>
>Now I can't let this
> go without asking why you would
> file and fly into KNOWN icing conditions? I know that you said the ice
> was from 4000-6000 ft and you
> filed for 3000 ft but still I would not have done that myself because no
> one can predict that closely at what
> level the ice well really start and stop. IMO
>
It has been a long weekend, and I seem to have nothing better to do so I
will tackle this one.... I flew night freight in Twin Beeches and C-402s
part-time for 10 years in Iowa and along the way, I got a little experience
with ice.
Before we go any farther, flying IFR without pitot heat is a bad idea.
(Sorry Jim, but that is the fact. I imagine you have already ordered a
heated pitot tube. Sick engine + no airspeed = no fun.) Pitot heat is a NO
GO item for IFR, in all but the low altitude summer time, and even then you
can have freezing temps at fairly low altitudes when convective activity
gets rolling.
If you plan to fly IFR out here in the Midwest, you have to remember we only
have 2 WX briefings from FSS, when we call, we get a message that says, "if
it is between April 1 and November 1 press 1 for the summer briefing,
otherwise press 2 for the winter briefing." The summer briefing says
"afternoon thunderstorms with tops to FL 450, hail to 2", and wind gusts to
50kts." The winter briefing says "Scattered snow showers with visibility
reduced to 1/2 mile and Moderate Mixed Ice in the clouds from the freezing
level to FL180.
The only way to fly IFR out here in the winter is to "manage ice" Ice is
like turbulence, there is almost always some, and it is usually not a big
deal. Without knowing the WX pattern etc, I don't know what Jim's plan was
or should have been, but "plan" is the key word and with a "plan" usually
you can "manage" ice pretty effectively. Flying IFR in the winter up north
is not for marginal instrument pilots. Flying and navigating needs to be
easy enough for the pilot to leave plenty of mental horsepower available for
gathering weather information and planning.
Deicing equipment on light airplanes is highly overrated, the best friend
you can have in the ice is climb performance, and RVs have good climb
performance!
The whole icing syllabus can not be reduced to a post on this list, but here
are some points that might be useful for managing ice.
#1 Never fly in Freezing Rain.
#2 Have a Plan, and a plan B.
#3 Upon encountering Ice, take immediate action, in accordance with #2
#4 Never fly in Freezing Rain
#5 If the plan falls apart, implement Plan B and formulate Plan C. Repeat as
necessary.
#6 Pilots almost always stop flying before the airplane. NEVER QUIT
FLYING!!! Most airplanes (fat wing, RV included) will fly with OBSCENE
amounts of ice on them. NEVER QUIT FLYING!!!!
#7 Never fly in Freezing Rain.
#8 95% of all icing encounters are less than 3000 feet vertically.
#9 Upon encountering ice, the default reaction should be to climb
immediately. Descending is always an option, but if you descend and guessed
wrong, climbing is no longer an option.
#10 Never Fly in Freezing Rain. This is the exception to #9 if you
encounter freezing rain turn around, as quickly as you can.
#11 Do not let ATC fly your airplane. If you are on top and they want you
to descend into the ice 40 miles from the airport, do not do it. Stay up
high, then dive for the airport as late as possible. If you need to climb,
ask once, and then insist on a climb even if it means you have to change
heading to clear traffic.
#12 You guessed it, Never Fly in Freezing Rain.
With these rules in mind, the "plan" might be, Get a briefing, If the tops
are below 8000 feet, and the freezing level is 4000 feet. Plan A might be
like Jim's try to stay below it. upon encountering the ice, Plan B is
immediately request an unrestricted climb to 8 or 9000 feet and use FULL
power. RV's climb well in cold weather and within 5 minutes you should be
on top. Plan C then becomes turning around and beginning a decent to a
nearby airport for a straight in approach. Do not pussy foot around with
(unnecessary) procedure turns if you are accumulating ice at a rapid rate.
If you are in radar coverage get vectors, if not they won't know you skipped
the PT anyway.
Now you are up on top at 9000 feet and the clouds are sneaking up beneath
you. Ask center for a pilot report or get on the flight watch, ask what is
going on below. Remember that 95% thing, it came from a big study done by
some PHD types that I got as a reference for an icing article in IFR
magazine. You punch into the clouds, and if you start getting ice you may
want to climb to 10 or 11, or you may want to request 4 or 5 thousand. but
once you start the decent if you start picking up ice, you either have to
climb backup, or you are committed to descend till you get out of it, or
pick a place to land if you can't get below it. (have a alternate in mind
when you start the decent) 95% of the time you will be below it in 3000
feet and you can continue to your destination.
In the briefing, planning and flying, try to visualize the weather system.
Where the cold air and where the warm can be found. Either one is fine, it
is the kinda cold air that causes the problems. Unless you are flying
parallel with the weather system, the altitudes on the top and bottom of
these areas, will move up or down as you cross the fronts. So in the
previous example where the tops of the clouds, and ice, are rising, the
chances are the base of the icing layer is rising as well and on a trip like
that you could cross the icing layer twice and never spend more than 10
minutes total exposed to the ice. Unless you are in Freezing Rain, 10
minutes of ice will seldom cause you any more trouble than a frozen
windshield. Something to consider if you are shooting a non-precision
approach. If you can't see the runway, fly to the airport, and circle
looking out the side using a carrier type approach.
That is the short version.
Some quick war stories:
You may have determined by now that I have a healthy respect for freezing
rain. I descended into freezing rain in a Cessna 402 at 3000 ft on an ILS
with the gear up planning to circle. I broke out of the clouds at 2000 feet
with full power, the gear was still up and the airplane was barely flyable,
at DH I put the gear down. The windshield was covered so I kept the
localizer centered till I saw the runway lights out the side window and
smashed it on to the runway. It was the closest I have ever been to buying
the farm. I was in the clouds for less than a minute and had over 2" of
clear ice that ran back to the spar. NEVER QUIT FLYING the airplane. (you
wonder why I fly warbirds on weekends instead of night freight?)
Another time, I was flying VFR underneath the clouds, at night, the ceiling
got below 1000 ft and I was 40 miles from my destination. I asked for my
clearance (which I had briefed ATC would be my plan if the ceiling got too
low.) and climbed to 4000 ft. With only 40 miles to go, why climb higher,
besides I had deice equipment. I climbed into a 30 kt headwind, and started
picking up rime ice. I did not want to climb any higher, I only had 40 nm
to go.... I thought I would just slug it out. I kept cycling the boots,
and kept the wings clear, but every unprotected leading edge of anything
just kept piling on ice, which reduced my groundspeed even further. I just
kept adding power and when I started down the glideslope I was at 110 knots
with climb power. No options, no climb performance left, nothing, just
shoot an approach and make it. No excuses. I was in the ice for over 30
minutes including the approach maneuvering and it was too long. There was 3
to 4 inches of mixed ice on the unprotected areas.
The more winters I flew the less ice I seemed to encounter, and the weather
never changed. I can honestly say there have been entire winters when I
never cycled the boots......
Sorry for the long post, but it really is the short version.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jakent(at)unison.ie |
| Subject: | Deburring in impossible? places. |
Try a Cogsdill deburring tool - like a plain shaft with a retractable blade on
the side. Spin it up in a drill motor, push in to deburr the front of the hole,
pull back to deburr the rear - simple, but (very) expensive. E-Bay sometimes
has them at an affordable price - sometimes in batches.
Wish I'd found them sooner. J.Kent RV-4 #3254 (almost!).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> vibration stops |
| Subject: | Re: Really long winded Icing dribble, was : When the |
vibration stops
>
>The only way to fly IFR out here in the winter is to "manage ice" Ice is
>like turbulence, there is almost always some, and it is usually not a big
>deal. Without knowing the WX pattern etc, I don't know what Jim's plan was
>or should have been, but "plan" is the key word and with a "plan" usually
>you can "manage" ice pretty effectively. Flying IFR in the winter up north
>is not for marginal instrument pilots. Flying and navigating needs to be
>easy enough for the pilot to leave plenty of mental horsepower available for
>gathering weather information and planning.
>
All of Doug's post was right on the mark in my experience. The
weather guys don't have the tools to accurately forecast where the
ice will be, so they cover their butt by putting out a blanket
statement about icing in cloud above the freezing level. Quite often
there is nothing there, but you had better have a plan on what to do
if there is ice before you stick your nose in the cloud.
One thing I've learned from icing flight testing - with layer type
cloud there is often a very thin layer of icing conditions about 50
ft below the cloud tops. So don't linger near the top of a layer of
cloud.
I've done a fair bit of flight testing with simulated ice glued on
the leading edges of wings and tails. In general aircraft fly just
fine with ice on the airframe, except for a drag increase, and around
a 40% loss in maximum lift. That would translate into about a 20%
increase in stall speed. But, your prop will be collecting ice too,
so your available thrust will be decreasing significantly as the prop
turns into a baseball bat. So don't waste any time getting out of
the ice. If I had to chose between having prop ice protection or
airframe ice protection, I would pick the prop ice protection every
time.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit Lights |
In a message dated 11/20/2003 8:48:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
pat_hatch(at)msn.com writes:
> Question for those who have used the eyeball lights...how well do you think
> they would work as map lights instead of instrument flood lights? Are they
> bright enough for this purpose do you think?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Pat Hatch
>
This is exactly what I use mine for. I used the flat light strips by
Aerotronics under my glareshield area for lighting the instruments. I don't think
I
would have been happy at all had I used the eyeballs for my only instrument
lighting. I think they work great for map reading. They swivel and I have one
on each side so I can direct them pretty efficiently.
Are you going to the Lakeland RV Fly In in January?
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
171 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: LightSPEED 3G series and LG TP 5250 |
In a message dated 11/25/2003 2:36:10 PM Eastern Standard Time,
richterrbb(at)earthlink.net writes:
> First off, I tried the archives and couldn't find any pertinent info, so
> (grasp nose and jump) . . .
>
> Does anyone on the list have any experience with the LightSPEED 3G
> series ANR headsets and LG cell phones, specifically, the TP 5250.
> (LightSPEED told me that LG has not provided them any info, so their
> phones don't appear in the compatibility list.) If so, does it need an
> adaptor? Is it loud enough with the engine running?
>
> Naturally, I'll try to get to some local pilot shops to see if they have
> a demo to try it on. If so, I'll post the results.
>
> Feel free to respond off line.
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Randy
Randy:
I have the 3Gs and use a Motorolla cell phone. Sorry to say that so far it
has been too noisy in the plane ... great when taxiing.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
171 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
I've used the following on other jobs with a Dremel tool - it might work
for deburring too. Cut a coarse (red) Scotchbrite pad into small squares
(about 1-1/2 inches). Fasten one of these to the end of the Dremel
adapter that is normally used for sanding disks. No need to round off
the edges of the square - they will round off in the first second or so
of use. These wear out fairly rapidly, but the cost is very low. You
might also try stacking several of the squares on at once.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
(snip)
>I was wondering if there was a dremel tool dubur tool or something
similar
>that did good job. The grinding stones I've always seen are too coarse
for
>this job.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Really long winded Icing dribble, was : When the vibration |
stops
All,
I got several nice comments about the icing article this morning. Thank you
all, and while I appreciate the mail, It is Matt that makes this possible
and it is time to send him some $$$$$
Click here:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: deburring in impossible places |
I made a real handy de-burring tool with a standard 3-flute countersink bit-
just find a piece of reinforced rubber hose about 1-1/2" long that snugly fits
the shank and a 6" piece of wooden doweling the same size. (I use 1/4") Plug
this together for a real handy deburrer. You can work down a line of holes
in no time by just poking it in a hole and giving a couple of twirls. Since
the rubber hose is always bent just a little, it deburrs nicely because the
angle of the bit varies as you spin it around. Plus for those tight spots, just
unplug the dowel and use the hose as a handle. REAL tight spots, just use the
countersink...
P.S. Took a picture last week of my LAST SKIN RIVET!! WOOHOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark - N51PW fuse is at the field!! Wrestling with warped #%&@X
Z@ sheared
wingtips!!
> (snip)
> >I was wondering if there was a dremel tool dubur tool or something
> similar
> >that did good job. The grinding stones I've always seen are too coarse
> for
> >this job.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Corsair: off subject |
Interesting side bar to the Corsair story.
Roosevelt gave a go ahead to produce the corsair in large numbers even though
the navy Department said they didn't want them.... to risky to land by straight
in approach to carriers (nose blanketed the entire carrier when nose high in
slow flight). this was before we had entered the war.
Churchill was begging for aircraft and Roosevelt said we've a bunch of carrier
planes at a factory up at (I think) Bethpage New York. Send your pilots and a
carrier. The British pilots flew them out to Arc Royal (I think) landed aboard
and steamed for UK. In route they were diverted to chase Bismarck. The
Corsairs flew first combat against the German ship with British pilots doing the
flying. Landings were no problem because the Brits landing technique was a
circular landing track so the LO and carrier were always to the left of the nose
and ahead of the wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rv-list spark Plugs |
Contact Jeanne Fenimore at Aircraft Spark Plug Service in Van Nuys, CA (818) 787-5680.
She will re-condition your used plugs to like new condition for only $3.50 per
plug, or you can buy reconditioned plugs from her (no exchange) for $7.50 each.
If you want to purchase brand new un-used Champion Plugs, she sells those for
about $13.50 if I remember correctly.
Good service and quick turn-around.....
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: empennage tip attachment |
>
>Has anyone attached their empennage tips using a bonding adhesive
>instead of the recommended cs4-4 rivets?
I wouldn't think there would be much risk to trying it. Might use a rivet
or two also.
My first thought is about expansion and if the bond could withstand it or
if it would even be enough to matter. I guess it could be tried on a strip
of aluminum then heated and cooled etc.
Couldn't help but look better!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: LightSPEED 3G and Cell Phone |
I have the LightSpeed 3G headsets and they work very well with my Nokia/AT&T
service. Occasionally I forget to turn the phone off in flight and I get a
call :)
Last year on my way to OSH @ 12,500 over the Blue Mountains (Oops forgot
again!) the phone rang and it was my friend Peter "So what are you doing?" I
replied "I am going to OSH, I am over the Blue Mountains" Peter "You are not the
call is to clear" me "yes, I am in the plane over the Blue Mountains with two
other RV's and the cell phone police are going to be waiting for me when I land
in Helena"
I did lose the call after about 4 minutes and no sign of the cell phone
police in Helena.
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
Kevin et al aero guys-
The machine I operate for a living has three (relatively) small vg's
protruding fwd from the underside of the outboard LE of each wing. The
vortices they create seem to counter the normal spanwise flow on the
underside of the wing. Glycol trails indicate that the airflow in this
region run straight back until reaching the aileron LE, then some outboard
flow is indicated. Do you have any idea how tricky / hazardous it would be
to try and incorporate this technology into our RV's? Pros / cons?
Enquiring minds want to know...
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Propeller performance testing |
Hi All,
Just received my copy of the RVator, and read their report on propeller
performance testing.
Just thought I would add my 2 cents.
I have been getting performance data on an RV-6A with a Lyc. O-360-A1A engine
and a Hartzell 2 blade propeller (HC-C2YK-ABF/F7666A-4).
Please note that the airspeed system is uncalibrated. Since the total
difference in airspeeds measured was only about 2 per cent of the total airspeed,
it
should still be fairly accurate data.
The data I collected was at 7,500 feet pressure altitude with the engine at
full throttle.
gph RPM TIAS (mph)
11.2 2700 201
10.5 2600 203
10.1 2500 203
8.8 2400 200
7.9 2300 199
gph = fuel flow in gallons per hour
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Going faster |
The wingtip vortex situation is at it's least harmful when in high speed
cruise flight so spanwise flow prevention is probably not the reason to add
VGs at this location. More likely, IMHO and without looking at the actual
wing, the vortices are intended to add some extra energy to the upper
surface airflow at high angles of attack to reduce flow separation at the
trailing edge of the wing. This would keep the flow attached in the vicinity
of the ailerons and improve roll control in slow flight.
Short, stubby, (well, let's be nice and say low aspect ratio) wings as found
on the RV series already have lots of tip vortices at high angles of attack
that keep the flow attached at the tips plus the usual Van's slotted aileron
gap feature keeps the ailerons effective through and above the stalling
angle of attack. Adding VGs to this situation won't make much difference to
slow flight characteristics and will add drag at high speeds slowing the
aircraft down
Jim Oke
Wpg, MB.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Going faster
>
> Kevin et al aero guys-
>
> The machine I operate for a living has three (relatively) small vg's
> protruding fwd from the underside of the outboard LE of each wing. The
> vortices they create seem to counter the normal spanwise flow on the
> underside of the wing. Glycol trails indicate that the airflow in this
> region run straight back until reaching the aileron LE, then some outboard
> flow is indicated. Do you have any idea how tricky / hazardous it would
be
> to try and incorporate this technology into our RV's? Pros / cons?
> Enquiring minds want to know...
>
> Glen Matejcek
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: When the vibration stops |
Jim,
Glad to hear that you made it in in one piece. Not good to get into
icing conditions.
I too was enroute over Terre Haute on Saturday, but I elected to do it
at 11,000', well
above the icing conditions (below freezing, but above the clouds).. I
did make an
approach into Manchester Ohio just to stay away from the more severe
conditions,
and get gas. (I was on my way back from NM, going to Hartford CT...). I
did pick up
a bit of light rim ice, but not enough to cause any issues.
For those of you that want a better carb heat muff, I strongly suggest
NOT using the
same muff as the cabin heat. Instead, construct a muff around one of the
crossover
pipes directly above the carb air box. And to make more carb heat
available, make a
spring type device from .032 stainless safety wire, and wrap it around
the exhaust pipe
under the muff. (I do this inside my cabin heat muff too..) Robin
Williams sells the
stainless end caps (you only need one: the other end is open to let the
air in...).
I see a 20*C rise in carb inlet air temps by using such a device.....
Better yet, use a standard cabin heat muff on the opposite exhaust
pipe as the cabin heat,
with the air inlet open to the lower cowl. The increased area will help
a lot..
Even being careful flying IFR, you're bound to experience ice sometime
in your flying career,
so why not design your engine support systems so you don't have to worry
about the
windmill stopping. It's bad enough to not be able to see out the
windshield....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
107 hrs since the middle of August!
Listers,
Just got in from Fort Worth via an all night stay at Terre
Haute. I left
Mt. Vernon (MVN) on the way to Warsaw in 2000 ft. ceilings and
reported ice
from 4-6000 ft. I filed IFR at 3000 because that's as low as they
would give
me, and climbing on top would have put me in ice for longer than I
wanted to
be. Twelve miles north of Terre Haute my airspeed indicator went
to zero. I
told Terra Haute I wanted to spend the night with them. I received
radar
vectors to HUF started to 1500 ft , made the turn south and the
engine quit
when I reduced power. I had carb heat on and throttle full open, I
had to
jockey the mixture at the full lean position. I pulsed the engine
for eight
miles. These RVs take very little power to keep them afloat.
Finally the
engine would take a richer mixture and started running OK as I got
to the
airport. Made a good landing and approach thanked me for not
making them do
a lot of paperwork. My controller at Terre Haute talked to me
continually
and indicated places to sit down if I had too, he was a Godsend.
Chad Williams and the guys at the Flight Center put my RV4 in
a heated
hanger to let the ice melt off last night.
Last night it dawned on me that a lot of you listers probably
have the
same carb heat set-up that I do. You use a heat muff around the
pipes to get
cabin heat and carb heat. IF YOU GET CARB ICE, TURN THE CABIN HEAT
OFF WHILE
YOU'RE TRYING TO GET YOUR ENGINE TO RUN AGAIN. I didn't think of
this until
last night in the motel room. ALSO, WHEN THEY SAY ICE, THEY MEAN
ICE. I
didn't have pitot heat because I wasn't going to be foolish enough
to fly in
icing conditions, RIGHT!
Jim Nolan
N444JN
Older and Wiser
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Nolan" <jamespnolan(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Long winded icing dribble |
Doug,
Good post. I learned a lot this weekend about what not to do in bad
weather. And yes, I've ordered pitot heat, a Davtron M303 and for Christmas
I hope Santa brings me a Icom A5 with all the goodies.
I learned that light IFR when properly flown for a period of time will
eventually give you a sense of accomplishment leading to the inevitable hard
IFR that you never intended to fly in. I've been knocked around and enjoyed
being able to break out after two hours of never seeing the ground. I
thought I was good with my little rocket. But, being human, guess what
you'll eventually make, a mistake.
I've always realized that the pilots that get killed are not necessarily
bad pilots nor are they stupid pilots. They may have used bad judgment at
the wrong time. Thankfully my time hasn't came yet. When it does you can bet
it won't be icing.
Jim Nolan
N444JN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Lasar or Lightspeed? |
I plan on ordering a new 0-360 from Vans when the time comes. I am
trying to figure out which route to take. Should I order the engine with
the Lasar system install on the engine or should I order the Lightspeed
and why? I don't know squat about either :-( I hope to be using a
ACS2002 engine monitor and I'll be using a key start, if that makes any
differance.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Roger Evenson" <revenson(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV9A Empty Weights |
About a week ago, I asked for empty weights for RV9As. For your info, here are
the averages so far:
O-320, fixed pitch (9 responses): 1061 lbs.
O-320, constant speed (3 responses): 1090 lbs.
Eggenfellner Subaru, constant speed (6 responses): 1099 lbs.
I'd sure like to get a few more data points from those of you flying RV9A's with
O-320's and constant speed props. Anyone else? Thanks, Roger.
________________________________________________________________________________
rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Turn and Bank - RC Allen vs Electrical Gyro Corp? |
I need to buy a 3 1/8 inch electric turn and bank for the RV-8 I'm
building. Aircraft Spruce sells two, and I'm wondering whether there
is any reason to pick one over the other, other than the small price
difference.
Does any one have opinions on the performance and reliability of the
RC Allen 56-3B vs the Electric Gyro Corp 1234T100. I'll probably
call a gyro overhaul shop tomorrow to see if they will tell me
anything useful.
I'll fly some IFR, so I want a trust-worthy instrument. I'll also
fly a fair bit of aerobatics, so I want one that is robust and
overhaulable at a reasonable cost.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
I have added vortex generators on top of my RV-4 wings and it has very
noticably lowered my stall and improved low speed stability. I see no difference
in
top speed. I don't have expensive test equipment so these are general
observations.
I have to make my final approach between trees at about 40 feet above ground
in order to get onto the end of my runway (1100 foot grass strip). I wanted
the improvement at low speed for that reason. Take-off is shorter also.
Larry Vetterman has the VG's available.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
________________________________________________________________________________
Well, I was dimpling the right elevator (RV-9) and my wife was helping me.
Somehow the male dimple didn't stay in the hole as I hit the c-frame with a
mallet. Her hand was blocking my view so I'm not sure what happened. I don't blame
her, I should have made sure the dimple dies were correctly positioned before
I drove the dimple.
It cut the edge of the stiffener hole out. I tried to re-dimple thinking I
could maybe save it. At first, I thought it might be OK, but when I looked at
the outside of the skin I saw a crack from the hole extending about a 1/64 of an
inch outside the dimple.
I'm thinking the skin is scrap, but I thought I would ask for opinons before
I throw it out and start over. It might be possible to wait until the crack
grows out (and it will) away from the hole and then stop drill it. It's too
close to the dimple to drill it now. Since it's on the bottom it wouldn't be
visible. However, I'm not sure this would even work.
Opinions, advise?
Thanks,
Bryon Crook
RV-9A EMP.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Propeller performance testing |
What mixture did you run these tests at Jim? ROP? LOP? How many degrees?
Tracy Crook
>SNIP<
The data I collected was at 7,500 feet pressure altitude with the engine at
full throttle.
gph RPM TIAS (mph)
11.2 2700 201
10.5 2600 203
10.1 2500 203
8.8 2400 200
7.9 2300 199
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | RE: When the vibration stops & Carb Heat |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred Stucklen
Subject: RV-List: RE: When the vibration stops
For those of you that want a better carb heat muff, I strongly suggest
NOT using the same muff as the cabin heat. Instead, construct a muff around
one of the
crossover pipes directly above the carb air box. And to make more carb heat
available, make a spring type device from .032 stainless safety wire, and
wrap it around
the exhaust pipe under the muff.
I second Fred's comments and would even suggest that the carb heat muff wrap
around both
crossover pipes.
Fred could you elaborate a bit on your "spring type device from .032
stainless safety wire"
the safety wire I have is quite soft, and I can't picture it wrapped as a
spring.
Thanks
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Going faster |
>the vortices are intended to add some extra energy to the upper
>surface
has three (relatively) small vg's
protruding fwd from the UNDERSIDE of the outboard LE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Propeller performance testing |
In a message dated 11/30/2003 9:52:35 PM Pacific Standard Time,
lors01(at)msn.com writes:
What mixture did you run these tests at Jim? ROP? LOP? How many degrees?
Tracy Crook
The data was collected with the mixture ROP. (EGT just below 800 degrees C)
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Propeller performance testing |
Subject: RV-List: Propeller performance testing
I have been getting performance data on an RV-6A with a Lyc. O-360-A1A
engine
and a Hartzell 2 blade propeller (HC-C2YK-ABF/F7666A-4).
Please note that the airspeed system is uncalibrated. Since the total
difference in airspeeds measured was only about 2 per cent of the total
airspeed, it
should still be fairly accurate data.
The data I collected was at 7,500 feet pressure altitude with the engine
at
full throttle.
gph RPM TIAS (mph)
11.2 2700 201
10.5 2600 203
10.1 2500 203
8.8 2400 200
7.9 2300 199
gph = fuel flow in gallons per hour
Jim Ayers
Jim: The above numbers support the comments made by others that the
Hartzell CS props don't produce more speed at the higher RPMs. Since
power produced is significantly higher at 2700 than at 2500, efficiency
must be down. One might assume that this is a deliberate attempt to
maximize the prop for cruise. Have you, or anyone you know, talked to
Hartzell about what it might take to make the prop best at 2700 and what
diminution of performance at cruise RPMs would result? Additionaly,
what effect would this have on takeoff and climb performance? My
testing of fixed pitch props show some decrease in efficiency at the
higher R's but nowhere near that much.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
those who were asking about anodizing... You can get anodizing stuff from www.caswellplating.com
They have anodizing kits from $275 and up. Not bad if you're gonna do a bunch
of parts and don't want to hassle with finding a pro to squeeze you into their
schedule.
I have also used their CopyChrome plating stuff with good results.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Re;Going Faster |
I was working for Bill Lear during the time he was developing the first Lear Jet.
About a year into the program he added VGs to the wings and tail. He had been
running
every test he could conceive on the performance all the way through the test program
and on through the VG experiment. The VGs lowered the stalling speed by more than
10%
and while they never got a perfect set of tests (before GPS) it seemed that the
plane
was slightly faster in cruise and burned a tad less fuel over time. This was the
first
time I had any knowledge of Vortex Generators and how they worked.
Hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List:Going Faster/vortex generators |
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
After testing for a while with the VGs stuck on with tape (and losing a
few), I put them on with glue. I like flying fast and I like flying
slow--right on the edge of stalling--this is "feeling" the
airplane--looking outside--how maneuverable can you be?--how fast can
you go down/up with just the throttle?--can you fly without looking at
your instruments? BVG (before vg) it was largely a rudder thing for
directional control--AVG I can now use the ailerons (judiciously) and
even cross-control, angle-of-bank is increased and the AOA says my nose
(wings) points higher. Doing 3-way GPS runs, there is no difference in
top speed and at cruise speed there is no increase in fuel consumption
(VM-1000 is accurate to 0.1 gallon).
I like the vortex generators on a clipped RV wing.
Boyd.
Venice, FL
On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 10:35 PM, Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have added vortex generators on top of my RV-4 wings and it has very
> noticably lowered my stall and improved low speed stability. I see no
> difference in
> top speed. I don't have expensive test equipment so these are general
> observations.
> I have to make my final approach between trees at about 40 feet above
> ground
> in order to get onto the end of my runway (1100 foot grass strip). I
> wanted
> the improvement at low speed for that reason. Take-off is shorter
> also.
> Larry Vetterman has the VG's available.
>
>
> Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
> RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
> Charleston, Arkansas
> "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Propeller performance testing |
In a message dated 12/01/2003 5:33:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,
gcomfo(at)tc3net.com writes:
Jim: The above numbers support the comments made by others that the
Hartzell CS props don't produce more speed at the higher RPMs. Since
power produced is significantly higher at 2700 than at 2500, efficiency
must be down. One might assume that this is a deliberate attempt to
maximize the prop for cruise. Have you, or anyone you know, talked to
Hartzell about what it might take to make the prop best at 2700 and what
diminution of performance at cruise RPMs would result? Additionaly,
what effect would this have on takeoff and climb performance? My
testing of fixed pitch props show some decrease in efficiency at the
higher R's but nowhere near that much.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Hi Gordon,
I see a significant change in fuel consumption between 2300 RPM and 2700 RPM.
I would have to look at the Lyc. O-360-A1A performance chart to see if there
is a significant increase in power. Without looking, I would guess that the
50% increase in fuel flow occurs with about a 15% to 20% increase in engine
power generated.
I was getting performance baseline data on the existing propeller on the
RV-6A.
MT Propeller is very good at designing cruise propellers. They custom design
the blade for the engine and performance specified.
For those that answered my informal survey on this list, everyone wanted a
cruise propeller. There was no interest in a racing propeller, even though it
was an option in the survey. Has that changed?
I am trying to get a racing propeller from MT Propeller for two different
types of racing RV's.
Jim Ayers
MT Propeller OEM Distributor for Harmon Rocket 2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David J. Dormer" <revdjd(at)gci.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wright flyer up |
List Members:
Why all the consternation? Those staging this "reenactment" of the Wright brothers
first flight are more concerned with political correctness than historical
accuracy. Now, wouldn't it be something if this woman flies the flyer "right"
into the ground???
DJD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Combo Mill/Lathe |
I'd like to see if anyone has experience with any of these "cheap"/chinese
shop lathes and/or mills. I've seen a combination lathe/mill advertised in
the magazines for ~$1500, $2000 with accessories.
I plan to use it for occasionally light metal work. No production, heavy or
high precision. I know something like a Bridgeport or similar "would be
better". My question is simply whether these $1500-2000 tools are worth
$1500-2000. In my experience, some of these "cheap" tools are trash. Some
are worth their price.
Experienced comments would be appreciated.
Bryan Jones -8
Pearland, Texas
Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
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________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anyone with pics of Vans FWF kit installed on -8/A? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Guys,
I'm interested in getting some of the pre-made hoses that Vans offers for FWF items
like fuel, oil, and MAP. Does anyone have pics of their FWF installation
(preferrably on an -8 or -8A with O-360 and standard carb and C.S. setup) that
show the Van's FWF kit items installed? I'm especially interested in how the
hoses are routed for the fuel system, and where on the firewall the fuel/oil/MAP
pressure manifold is located to work with Van's hoses.
I know I could buy Van's plans for all this but it doesn't seem worth it just for
what I need. Had the FWF kit been available before I bought half the stuff
I needed, I probly would have got it from Vans...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Compton" <thecomptons(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-List:Going Faster/vortex generators |
How many vg's do you have on each wing? And where are they placed?
RC
RV-3 N148CW
Gulf Breeze, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List:Going Faster/vortex generators
>
> After testing for a while with the VGs stuck on with tape (and losing a
> few), I put them on with glue. I like flying fast and I like flying
> slow--right on the edge of stalling--this is "feeling" the
> airplane--looking outside--how maneuverable can you be?--how fast can
> you go down/up with just the throttle?--can you fly without looking at
> your instruments? BVG (before vg) it was largely a rudder thing for
> directional control--AVG I can now use the ailerons (judiciously) and
> even cross-control, angle-of-bank is increased and the AOA says my nose
> (wings) points higher. Doing 3-way GPS runs, there is no difference in
> top speed and at cruise speed there is no increase in fuel consumption
> (VM-1000 is accurate to 0.1 gallon).
>
> I like the vortex generators on a clipped RV wing.
>
> Boyd.
> Venice, FL
>
>
> On Sunday, November 30, 2003, at 10:35 PM, Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> >
> > I have added vortex generators on top of my RV-4 wings and it has very
> > noticably lowered my stall and improved low speed stability. I see no
> > difference in
> > top speed. I don't have expensive test equipment so these are general
> > observations.
> > I have to make my final approach between trees at about 40 feet above
> > ground
> > in order to get onto the end of my runway (1100 foot grass strip). I
> > wanted
> > the improvement at low speed for that reason. Take-off is shorter
> > also.
> > Larry Vetterman has the VG's available.
> >
> >
> > Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
> > RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
> > Charleston, Arkansas
> > "Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: FW: Re: an5812 pitot tube |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
Good info from Mr. Gretz...thought I would pass it along.
Scott Haskins
RV7A Wings
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave" <dave(at)coltnet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Combo Mill/Lathe |
> I'd like to see if anyone has experience with any of these "cheap"/chinese
> shop lathes and/or mills. I've seen a combination lathe/mill advertised
in
> the magazines for ~$1500, $2000 with accessories.
Bryan,
Here are some bbs references that cater to the machinist/hobby group, that
may help.
http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ubbs/Ultimate.cgi
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/cgi-bin/ubbcgi/Ultimate.cgi
http://www.chaski-test.com/ubb/ubbthreads.php
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Combo Mill/Lathe |
>
> > I'd like to see if anyone has experience with any of these "cheap"/chinese
> > shop lathes and/or mills. I've seen a combination lathe/mill advertised
>in
> > the magazines for ~$1500, $2000 with accessories.
Very often, you can get more for your money by buying a used good
quality lathe or milling machine, rather than a new low quality machine.
The combo machines are often not very useful, accurate, or powerful.
A friend of mine just bought a Bridgeport Series II milling
machine (with dead electronics) for just $600 on Ebay. (This worked out to
a little less than $0.10 per pound.) Of course, he had to pay $100 to get
it to his driveway, and another $300 to move it into his garage. The
electronics was replaced with more modern controls for about $700. To my
buddy, replacing the electronics was like fixing a flat tire to you or me.
Here are pictures of an identical mill.
http://www.timgoldstein.com/cnc/bridgettpic.asp
This same buddy sells a very slick small CNC mill package:
http://www.denvercnc.com/taig.htm
I have a quite useful, but simplistic ENCO brand mill:
http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INPDFF?PMPAGE=18
CNC retrofit for my mill:
http://www.ajaxcnc.com/cncgrizzlymilldrill.htm
The advantage of CNC is that you can make three-dimensional shapes
nearly directly from a 3-D drafting package. The disadvantage of CNC is
that they are complicated and take computer knowledge to use effectively.
Ebay is a very good source for good used machine tools.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wilder, Scott" <SWilder(at)LOWEENTERPRISES.com> |
Should I test for leaks before installing the rear baffle? Do not
Archive.
Scott Wilder
Chief Engineer - Emerald Point
Lowe Enterprises Real Estate Group
5130 Hacienda Drive Suite 100
Dublin, CA 94568
925-875-1313 office
925-875-1236 fax
925-383-9732 mobile
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
After 6 years of forgetting to turn off the mags, and now the forgetting the Lightspeed
ignition, my 6 year old battery is finally dead for good.
So what's the latest and greatest in the battery world today?
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net> |
>
>After 6 years of forgetting to turn off the mags, and now the forgetting
>the Lightspeed ignition, my 6 year old battery is finally dead for good.
>
>So what's the latest and greatest in the battery world today?
Andy,
When you get done reading the responses to this question, you will almost
certainly decide on an AGM (absorbed glass mat) battery. The one currently
most popular is the Oddessy 680. This battery is incredibly small and
lightweight. When I look at my 4 year old "680", I can not believe how
flawlessly it has performed in hot or cold weather, especially with
my fuel injected I0-360 when starting hot. At about $80.00 delivered
to your door, you can't go wrong.
Louis
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
" Miss Viagra"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | RV9A Empty Weights |
Here's one more data point:
1083 lbs. (no external paint and no upper gear leg intersection fairings)
IO-320-D1A (Bendix injection)
Hartzell CS prop
All electric IFR panel (MX20 not yet installed - but prewired)
Backup SD-8 alternator
2 axis TruTrak autopilot
slider canopy
CG is fairly far forward with single pilot and no baggage (run out of trim
in landing configuration).
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
I'd sure like to get a few more data points from those of you flying RV9A's
with O-320's and constant speed props. Anyone else? Thanks, Roger.
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>After 6 years of forgetting to turn off the mags, and now the forgetting
>the Lightspeed ignition, my 6 year old battery is finally dead for good.
>
>So what's the latest and greatest in the battery world today?
These are the batteries that I run in my electric drag bike:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=&product_id=1907
It is the hottest battery I have been able to find. The specs are
quite a bit better than the Hawker batteries most folks presently use in
their RVs, it also weighs a bit less, and it costs a bit less. I don't know
if anyone has actually flown one yet, however.
I have load tested quite a few different brands of batteries, as
have my EV drag racing buddies, and these appear to produce the most
amperage per pound. The 26 SVR-14 batteries I run in my electric drag bike
have not given me any trouble when I stayed below 900 amps. I burst one
when I overheated the pack and then attempted to draw just over 900 amps
for 10 seconds. It must have been a "runt" because the rest of them had no
problems.
If you are curious, you can see my electric drag bike at:
http://www.killacycle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Propeller performance testing |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Propeller performance testing
Hi Gordon,
For those that answered my informal survey on this list, everyone wanted
a
cruise propeller. There was no interest in a racing propeller, even
though it
was an option in the survey. Has that changed?
I am trying to get a racing propeller from MT Propeller for two
different
types of racing RV's.
Jim Ayers
Jim: I don't know that a prop optimized for 2700 r's would necessarily
be desireable. My curiosity lies with the question of what the losses
would be for such a prop at lower speeds. Looking at the altitude
charts is frustrating because our aircraft types seem to fall outside
the curves, but it looks like the power decrease from 2700 to 2300 would
be somewhere between 10 and 15hp. This hp is essentially lost in level
flight and it seems a shame. On the other hand, if the prop were
optimized at 27k and performance was down 3 or 4% at 24/25k that
wouldn't be too nifty either. I just wonder how it would really work
out.
Gordon Comfort
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
I use the Odyssey 925 in My Rv-4. I took the Gel-Cel out and put it in my
antique Farmall that I mow the runway with.
In learning the hot-start procedure for my Bendix PS-5 carb. I really put the
Odyssey to the test on hot summer days. It came through just great. Hot or
cold it outperforms the others by a bunch.
Either the 680 ,or if you want LOTS of reserve ,the 925 will keep you happy.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested |
Thanks Tom !
Chuck Rowbotham
Niantic, CT
RV-8A
>From: "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo(at)verizon.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not
>interested
>Date: Mon, 1 Dec 2003 15:17:38 -0800
>
>
>Leaving the List - ON THE SOAP BOX - Delete now if not interested
>
> > The pointless chatter on this list is deafening! Friends have told me
> > not to bother with the Matronics lists, I guess this is why.
> >
> > See ya.
>
>Well don't let the door hit you in the ... on the way out.
>If you think this list is just spam, why add to it.
>JUST LEAVE and leave us alone, no good bye message needed.
>
>As I see it, there are at least three stages for people on this list:
>1. Before building, testing the waters, etc.
>2. Building.
>3. After building or Flying.
>
>We all have our favorite questions from each phase. What rivet gun, tandem
>or side-by-side, to prime or not to prime, etc.
>
>Do we need three lists for the different stages? Of course not, if all the
>stage three folks picked up and moved to a flying only list, who would
>answer some of those builder questions. If the builders were not on the
>stage one list, who would answer their questions?
>
>I would like to add one more stage - FRIENDS. Yes, friends. When I see a
>message from someone I know, from either the List, a phone call or a
>face-to-face visit, I always stop to see what they have to say. (Yes Doug,
>I read the ice article. Yes, it was good. NO, the F-4 was too fast for ice
>to form.) I have had several people who I have met on the list show up and
>it was just like we were old friends.
>
>To answer the question of why I stay on the Matronics Lists, I like planes
>of all types, I like pilots and people who like to fly, I like to talk
>about
>flying, I like building my plane, and most of all, I like the people on
>these Lists.
>
>Yes, once in a while the subject matter drifts away from the main reasons
>of
>these list but they quickly self adjust and get back to building or flying.
>
>Tom Gummo
>Apple Valley, CA
>Harmon Rocket-II
>
Has one of the new viruses infected your computer? Find out with a FREE
online computer virus scan from McAfee. Take the FreeScan now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
RC,
Given that your interest is in " ... the actual achievement of the Wright's
...", why is it such a big deal that one of the people highlighting that is
a woman?
I too see this as being about the achievement and the craft/technology used
to accomplish it ... not what the people looked like. Otherwise, the program
would have needed to find a couple of "look-a-likes" for Orville and Wilbur.
I say many do in fact grasp the point, yet have no problem with the pilot
**potentially** being a woman. We still do not know who will fly on the "big
day".
James
> wasn't "too excited about this centennial thing." It's the PC show going
> down at Kill Devil Hills that I've lost interest in, not the actual
> achievement of the Wright's and all that has followed. Apparently some
> amongst us missed, or was unable to grasp, this point.
>
> RC
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
Bill, have you tested for amp hour capacity per pound as well as cranking amp capacity?
Us alternative engine types are especially interested in that since
that's all we have between us and silence when the alternator quits. My present
battery gives me 22 AH for 15 lbs. Good for about 1 hour of flight after
TU on alternator.
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Dube
Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries
>snip<
I have load tested quite a few different brands of batteries, as
have my EV drag racing buddies, and these appear to produce the most
amperage per pound. The 26 SVR-14 batteries I run in my electric drag bike
have not given me any trouble when I stayed below 900 amps. I burst one
when I overheated the pack and then attempted to draw just over 900 amps
for 10 seconds. It must have been a "runt" because the rest of them had no
problems.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Propeller performance testing |
According to the efficiency data provided to me from MT Propeller, the MT
Propeller efficiency almost level from 2300 RPM to 2700 RPM.
I have been working with MT Propeller to get a propeller designed for the
specific race conditions being flown. As well as the specific engines being used.
Sun-N-Fun at sea level in April using a Lyc. 180 hp O-360
Reno at 5,000' pressure altitude (around 8,000 to 9,000' density altitude) in
Sept using a Lyc. 380 hp IO-540
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Greetings,
I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every time I try to check
the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is very little if any at all. Just a big
blast of air.
My instillation is a standard heater mounted on the right exhaust with air drawn
from the aft baffle on the # 3 cylinder. The air is ducted to the heater with
2" SCAT and then to a standard air box mounted on the firewall entering the
cabin between the rudder pedals.
Several hours ago I installed some "chor boy" copper scrubber pads in the heater
but there was no noticeable difference.
I'm thinking I may need to restrict some of the air flow in the intake.
Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks !
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | tw guy <ltwdg(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Wanted: rv-3 fuselage + tail. |
Anybody have a rv-3 project for sale with a
substantial amount of work done on the tail and
fuselage?
My interest is to complete a -3 project with the -B
wings.
I understand that I would probably have to replace the
fuse center section if I go with the QB -B wings. (not
sure about this with the standard kit -B wings).
Thanks.
Bill
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every
> time I try to check the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is
> very little if any at all. Just a big blast of air.
There is an optimum volume of air that should pass through the heater
for the most comfort. Too much air and it won't be warm enough, too
little and while it will be quite hot, it won't heat the cabin.
Specifically, it won't drive out the cold drafts. Mine are restricted
(at the baffle pick off point) almost completely, and there is still
enough to really get things warm. If I did it again, I'd be tempted to
use 1" scat, 2" is a major overkill.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Going Faster/vortex generators |
Hi all-
While I am mostly interested in the concept of lower surface vg's to reduce
wingtip vortices, the discussion of the commercial kits has made me think
of some other things:
Have you guys noticed a reduction in the tendency for flow separation at
the ailerons at high deflection angle w/ vg's installed? I recall Van
doing some limited investigation using sced 40 PVC pipe on the aileron LE,
but I don't think he saw that project through.
I can see where alternating the orientation of the individual vg's would
both lessen the effects of any yaw angle on the pattern of the vortices on
one wing compared to the other, as well as creating a synergistic
relationship between adjacent vortices. However, if one were delete the
vg's that are oriented LE outboard, wouldn't that create a flow pattern
that both inhibited spanwise flow and at the same time increased spin
resistance? (granted... not necessarily a bennie to those who like to do
snaps and spins...) I could also see some potential for increasing the
dutch roll tendency of the aircraft, due to the differential in wingtip
vortex strength in slipping flight.
Thoughts / comments?
gm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meske <rmeske@gcfn.org> (SquirrelMail authenticated user rmeske) by www.gcfn.org with HTTP; Tue, |
2 Dec 2003 09:36:32.-0500(at)matronics.com (EST)
| Subject: | NEW - Tire Valve Extension |
Hey guys!
Just thought I'd inform the list again that we have new product for ya.
If you have had to fill a tire with air, you'll appreciate this one. You
don't even have to remove your wheel pants. It is a valve extension.
Check it out at www.aircraftextras.com
GOOD LUCK building!
Rich
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Going faster |
OK, I understood these VGs were on the underside of the wing before but they
are projecting forward of the LE. Which, if the aircraft was at a high angle
of attack and considering upwash airflow from forward and below the wing LE,
would influence the upper surface airflow.
Just to clarify the situation, what type of aircraft is involved anyway?
If it is a high speed bizjet, there could be some mach induced flow
separation (due local supersonic flow) on the lower surface that the
manufacturer was trying to prevent which would improve the high speed cruise
performance. (This would not be relevant for an RV series aircraft despite
our wildest dreams.)
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: RE: Going faster
>
> >the vortices are intended to add some extra energy to the upper
> >surface
>
> has three (relatively) small vg's
> protruding fwd from the UNDERSIDE of the outboard LE
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: NEW - Tire Valve Extension |
NEW_DOMAIN_EXTENSIONS
also available from road type RV stores.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
> It should be relative simple to do the rails at home for cheap.
follow the previous URL's to anodizing. For a tank, use some schedule 40 pvc pipe
with an end cap on it. Maybe a piece of 3 inch or 4 inch would do. Cut it longer
than the rails, Roll a peice of thin 6061 aluminum for the anode or get a peice
of tubing from Wick's or Spruce or junk yard, Make some spacers to keep it away
from the piece being anodized. maybe a little smaller pice of pvc with a lot of
large holes cut in it would slip down between the part and the anode. Tie it up
so it cant tip over and spill acid all over. Use rubber gloves and face shield.
A Sears battery charger will do the trick.
For coloring, use Ritz dye but you will need a long vessel to cook the coloring
in with and seal the grain. Perhaps fabricate it from another piece of pipe
(steel this time) use your imagination to heat it up to boiling. Again support
it
so the boiling water can't fall over on you and blister you.
Go to the anodizing websites to find out how to really do it. But it should not
be hard to do and would make a good group project to do the set up and anodizing.
Phil
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: tool choices |
>
>The question: Is it better to deal-hunt and e-bay new and used tools
>together to build your aircraft or spend top dollar up front with Avory
>or similar for a complete set of new tools?
The first thing you need Randy, is a mentor or coach. When you go shopping
for used tools you need to know what to look for as many will be worn to
badly or even damaged. I was lucky enough to find a builder who decided he
would never do another kit so he sold everything. He was perfectly honest
but some of his tools were far from being good tools.
Realize that some of the tools are essential while some are just for ease
or improved productivity. Check the archives on this. Also know that us
who have completed an RV can now build one with nothing more than a file.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>Bill, have you tested for amp hour capacity per pound as well as cranking
>amp capacity? Us alternative engine types are especially interested in
>that since that's all we have between us and silence when the alternator
>quits. My present battery gives me 22 AH for 15 lbs. Good for about 1
>hour of flight after TU on alternator.
High-quality, high-power AGMs don't vary much in this respect.
They all have about the same number of amp-hrs per pound, give or take 10%
or so. Thus, to achieve a X minutes of dead alternator running time given Y
amps of current draw, you are going to have to install Z pounds of lead.
The spec sheet may say something different, but the load test
reveals that they are all follow the same trend. Of course, low power
(small Cold Cranking Amp) batteries will deliver more amp-hrs per pound
than batteries with large CCA. This is because the plates and straps are
much thinner and the paste is thicker in the battery that has fewer CCAs.
The SVR folks sell a full range of sizes. The SVR-18 is close to
what you have.
http://www.svrbatteries.com/motorcycle_line.html
Also, I should add that the capacity of the battery is very much
dependant on how low you allow the voltage to dip before you declare the
battery 100% discharged. Hawker picks 10 volts while other battery
manufacturers typically pick 10.5 volts as the 100% discharged voltage.
This makes Hawker batteries appear to have greater amp-hr capacity.
I should also note that as the battery ages, the capacity
decreases. You may also not know that brand new batteries have about 20%
reduced capacity for the first 10 to 20 cycles. Improperly charging your
AGM battery will make HUGE reductions in capacity. Since the typical
aircraft charging system does not even come close to properly charging an
AGM, you should only expect a fraction of the rated capacity of your battery.
Probably the best set-up would be an AGM for starting and a NiCad
(or better yet, a Li-Ion) battery for back-up in case of a charging system
failure. If you compare the capacity (energy) per kg for each of these
technologies, you will understand why NiCad or Li-Ion would be the best
choice. Lead-acid batteries have about 25 to 35 Watt-hours per kg
(W-hr/kg). NiCad batteries have about 40 to 50 W-hr/kg. Li-Ion batteries
have about 100 to 200 W-hr/kg. This means that a Li-Ion battery of the same
weight would have about 8 times the amp-hr capacity of a lead-acid battery.
If low weight is your goal, a Li-Ion back-up is the way to go.
They require an electronic charge management system, however, so this
reduces the simplicity and reliability of Li-Ion batteries.
If reliability is your goal, a NiCad back-up battery is probably
your best bet. They are practically indestructible and last longer than
almost any other technology, especially when subjected to abuse.
When you are into racing electric vehicles, you have no choice but
to become an expert on batteries. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>Save your time and in the long run money ... Call Avery (or Cleaveland),
>tell them what you are about to build and send them the check.
>
>Move on, don't look back. You will not regret it, nor will you have wasted
>your money.
I found that I saved a bunch of money buying the larger, more
expensive tools on Ebay. For example, I bought my pneumatic squeezer for
$170 on Ebay. I probably spent about the same total amount of money on
tools, but I ended up with a lot more tools and higher quality tools than I
would have if I had simply written a check to one of the major tool suppliers.
I really enjoy looking for a bargain. Hunting deals and getting
bargains was a lot of fun for me. However, if you are pressed for time, and
don't enjoy shopping, then I would completely agree that the Ebay route is
definitely not for you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andy Karmy" <andy(at)karmy.com> |
"RV-9A @ Yahoo"
| Subject: | AFS Waterbourne painting |
For those of you looking for a safer, more environmental
friendly, good quality paint system... I have posted a detailed
write up with pictures of the process of painting my fiberglass
parts using AFS 2 part Polyurathane paint.
I switched to AFS products a few years ago since I build in my
attached garage and could not tollerate the solvent smell in
the house and for my personal health.
Here's the link:
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/Paint/AFS-Painting/
afs-paint.htm
- Andy Karmy
RV9A, Seattle WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
There was a recent thread regarding the fact that air pressure from the tail counteracts
the heat from the front. Some have
placed a reverse duct on the belly or modified the rudder horn access plates to
incorporate the duct effect. I guess the
idea is to provide an exit point for the air being scooped by the tail.
Also, the canopy/fairing intersection with the slider rail has been a source of
cold air. Best rec you scan archives for
complete picture using keywords "Cabin Heat" "keeping the plane warm"
Please reply back on the list your results as I am at point where the addition
of these type of modifications would be
relatively easy.
I am soundproofing/insulating my cabin area...did you do yours?
Regards,
Vince Himsl
RV8SB - Finish
Greetings,
I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every time I try to check
the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is very
little if any at all. Just a big blast of air.
My instillation is a standard heater mounted on the right exhaust with air drawn
from the aft baffle on the # 3 cylinder.
The air is ducted to the heater with 2" SCAT and then to a standard air box mounted
on the firewall entering the cabin
between the rudder pedals.
Several hours ago I installed some "chor boy" copper scrubber pads in the heater
but there was no noticeable difference.
I'm thinking I may need to restrict some of the air flow in the intake.
Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks !
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Tracy,
I have an all-electric -8A with dual Lightspeeds and have a couple questions for
you:
1) What battery are you using that is 22 ah and only weighs 15 lbs? This seems
really good...the popular Odyssey PC 680 that lots of folks are running is also
15 lbs but only rated at 16 ah. If I could get 40% more capacity for the
same weight and a reasonable price, that would be great!
2) Does your Mazda engine depend on an electric fuel pump, and if so, how much
current does it draw? Seems like the ignition alone wouldn't drain a 22 ah battery
in one hour of flight. I figure if I switched off one Lightspeed and most
of my avionics, the 16 ah PC 680 should outlast the fuel in my tanks.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D always finishing but never finished...
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries
Bill, have you tested for amp hour capacity per pound as well as cranking amp capacity?
Us alternative engine types are especially interested in that since
that's all we have between us and silence when the alternator quits. My present
battery gives me 22 AH for 15 lbs. Good for about 1 hour of flight after
TU on alternator.
Tracy Crook
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
Opinions wanted: Would addition of VG's to an RV constitute a "major change"
as defined by the FAR's?
The inability to objectively determine any aerodynamic change leads me to
think it would not be, but then this is a confusing area. Your thoughts?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Just a FYI, anodizing fades in sun light.
>
Actually Scott, I was just getting ready to post some things I have found
out about anodizing. This may be old subject for some but new for others so
here goes.
Prices varied from $350-$250-$200 down to $125 for hard black anodizing to
$100 for soft black. Any alum that is alclad needs to have to alclad buffed
off. The smoother the surface the glossier the finish. Soft anodizing will
be more glossy than hard anodizing but the hard will last longer. Yes,
anodizing color is subject to UV breakdown and will fade more quickly in
direct sunlight. Hum, that slider rail is dead center fuselage and exposed
to direct sunlight all the time............
Since I will hangar my airplane, UV is not as much an issue as one that
would sit outside. It would certainly be easy enough to remove that rail
and have it re-anodized if it came to that.
Moral of the story, check around. The prices vary dramatically.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
Groove on the latest from the hot new rock groups! Get downloads, videos,
and more here. http://special.msn.com/entertainment/wiredformusic.armx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cammie Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net> |
I have the Orndorff RV 6/8 Empennage videos and the Orndorff Aircraft tools
videos for sale. I used them for my -7 and they are extremely helpful and
entertaining :-). $35 for all, I pay shipping. Please email me off list.
Cammie Patch
RV7a
Proseal in my hair.
(no leaks ;-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cammie Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net> |
I never had a leak anywhere other than the rear baffle. I found that I
needed to run the bead of sealant a little higher on the skins (more over
the holes) than the plans for my 7 called for. I like to see it ooze out a
little bit on the outside between the baffle flange and the skins. Lots of
sealant for the corners. But, if there were a leak to fix in any other spot,
it would be great to be able to test it prior to installing the baffle. I
don't see how this is possible though.
cammie patch
Should I test for leaks before installing the rear baffle? Do not
Archive.
Scott Wilder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Blanton Fortson <blanton(at)alaska.net> |
My *opinion*, FWIW, is that VG's do not constitute a "major change".
VG note: On the Cessna I used to own, I'd installed Charles White's
'Micro-Aero' VG's. How Chucks VG's differ from other STC'd kits for
certificated airplanes is that Chuck also adds VG's to the underside of
horizontal stabilizer. This *dramatically* increases elevator authority
at low airspeed. This was the most overtly noticeable effect of putting
VG's on the 206. I very much liked the change in the flying qualities.
For a STOL RV-9, I feel VG's might be the ticket.
B.
http://homepage.mac.com/blanton
On Dec 2, 2003, at 9:24 AM, John wrote:
>
> Opinions wanted: Would addition of VG's to an RV constitute a "major
> change"
> as defined by the FAR's?
> The inability to objectively determine any aerodynamic change leads me
> to
> think it would not be, but then this is a confusing area. Your
> thoughts?
> John
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
I'll have to go look at the model number but it is a common (large size) motorcycle
battery from NAPA. They supply several models of the same physical size
that vary from 17 to 22 AH and I picked the highest one. Price was highest too,
about $65 as I recall. Trouble is I don't know what the discharge rate was
for that spec. Generally, the faster you drain a lead acid battery the lower
its rating goes, so the difference in ratings might not even be real if they
used different discharge rates.
It takes about 12 amps to keep my controllers, pumps, ignition coils (4) and injectors
fed. The 22 AH should last well over 1 hr but it doesn't. The 22 AH
rating is probably at a very low current draw. The CCA rating is pretty low on
this battery but the Mazda rotary doesn't take much torque to crank. No valve
train to operate and only 3 moving parts.
My thanks to Bill Dube for the quick course on batteries. Just the info I needed
to make an intelligent choice for the -8 I'm building. I'll probably spring
for the ni-cads and leave the motorcycle battery in the -4 test mule.
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries
Tracy,
I have an all-electric -8A with dual Lightspeeds and have a couple questions for
you:
1) What battery are you using that is 22 ah and only weighs 15 lbs? This seems
really good...the popular Odyssey PC 680 that lots of folks are running is also
15 lbs but only rated at 16 ah. If I could get 40% more capacity for the
same weight and a reasonable price, that would be great!
2) Does your Mazda engine depend on an electric fuel pump, and if so, how much
current does it draw? Seems like the ignition alone wouldn't drain a 22 ah battery
in one hour of flight. I figure if I switched off one Lightspeed and most
of my avionics, the 16 ah PC 680 should outlast the fuel in my tanks.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D always finishing but never finished...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks(at)aol.com> |
I use 1" scat for the inlet on our RV-4 cabin heater. I have a spring wound around
the pipe inside the heat muff,to increase the transfer area but not restrict
the flow. The muff to mixer box scat is 2".
I get plenty of heat so far (55 hours).
Bob Olds
Charleston,Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
This summer in Yuma cabin Heat was not the problem but now that I've made
several trips North this November I have actually used that function. My 9A
has the Vans heat muff and air comes from the back baffle and seems
adequate at 35F OAT. There is a considerable draft from the rear however. A
blanket stretched across the cabin behind the seats fixed part of it. I'm
looking at the rear skirt fit and the opening around the slide rail. The
surprising thing however is that there is no air coming up around the
sticks.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | WPAerial(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | click,shiftt,click&delete |
on my screen i can delete 24 post at one time. what i do is click,shift,click
scan & DELETE ! If i havn't had time to get on line for a few days, i don't
even do the scan part.
I have been flying for a year. 194 hours ! and every now and than i find
someting i have to read or ask about. i even read the off subject post at times.
jerry wilken
n699wp
albany Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | chris <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
I just noticed that MSC has the maroon 7447 Scotch-Brite hand pads on
sale for $37.99 for a box of 60. I know 60 is enough to build about 10
planes but if you are part of a group of local builders or an EAA
chapter it would be great deal.
http://www.mscdirect.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Merchant_Id=1&Section_Id=&pcount=&Product_Id=460029&query=PG03356557
--
Chris Woodhouse
3147 SW 127th St.
Oklahoma City, OK 73170
405-691-5206
N35 20.492'
W97 34.342'
"They that can give up essential liberty
to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither liberty nor safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>
>I'll have to go look at the model number but it is a common (large size)
>motorcycle battery from NAPA. They supply several models of the same
>physical size that vary from 17 to 22 AH and I picked the highest
>one. Price was highest too, about $65 as I recall. Trouble is I don't
>know what the discharge rate was for that spec. Generally, the faster
>you drain a lead acid battery the lower its rating goes, so the difference
>in ratings might not even be real if they used different discharge rates.
There is a formula you can use called "Peukert's Equation" that
allows you to calculate the amp-hr capacity of the battery at any discharge
rate. To set the two constants in the equation, you must know the actual
capacity at two different discharge rates.
Here is a link to a Peukert calculator:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/battery.html
>It takes about 12 amps to keep my controllers, pumps, ignition coils (4)
>and injectors fed. The 22 AH should last well over 1 hr but it doesn't.
The amp-hr specification is at the 20 hr discharge rate. Thus, if
you had a draw of 1.1 amps, the battery would supply 22 amp-hrs over the 20
hours that it took to run it flat. If instead, you pulled 22 amps from it,
it would might last only 15 or 20 minutes before it was dead.
"Stiff" batteries with high CCAs and low internal resistance do
not suffer as badly from this problem. Also, NiCad batteries and Li-Ion
batteries lose very little capacity at modestly high discharges. That is
another reason that they make excellent back-up type batteries.
> The 22 AH rating is probably at a very low current draw. The CCA rating
> is pretty low on this battery but the Mazda rotary doesn't take much
> torque to crank. No valve train to operate and only 3 moving parts.
If you were to get a battery with a greater CCA, but a slightly
lower amp-hr capacity, it would probably run your airplane longer without
an alternator.
>My thanks to Bill Dube for the quick course on batteries. Just the info I
>needed to make an intelligent choice for the -8 I'm building. I'll
>probably spring for the ni-cads and leave the motorcycle battery in the -4
>test mule.
Some of the aircraft style starting batteries can produce
startlingly high CCA's, last nearly forever, and have excellent "dead
alternator" capacity for their weight. They cost a fortune, however.
Typically five to eight times the cost of a similar CCA lead-acid battery.
Ouch!
If you are interested in just the one hour capacity, and are not
going to use the NiCad to start the airplane, the cost is not as painful.
For the same one-hour capacity, a flooded NiCad will weigh about 1/2 as
much as a lead-acid battery and will cost _just_ three to four times as much.
Aircraft starting NiCads are often available used and are often in
very good condition used. However, there are many models and styles and
they all don't have good CCA ratings. You can ruin NiCads if you stray
beyond their peak amperage (discharge) ratings. Also, some folks try to
sell worn-out NiCads, or even give them away, because they are expensive to
"throw" away as they contain cadmium. Load test before you buy a used NiCad!
If you are planning a two battery system for reliability, probably
the best choice would be an AGM for starting and a NiCad for back-up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: When the vibration stops - Carb heat muff spring construction |
George & Listers,
The "spring type device from .032 stainless safety wire" is
constructed by winding standard .032" safety wire onto a 1/4" dowel .
Chuck the dowel in your favorite drill, hand start the wire, then slowly
power turn the dowel and close wind the wire. You'll probably need at
least 14"-16" of closely wound wire on the dowel. Remove the dowel from
the chuck, and let the tension out of the winding by releasing both
ends. Slip the wire off the dowel. Don't worry about slightly
stretching it out , as that's the next step in the process. Don't
stretch it out too much, as the more turns touching the exhaust pipe the
better the heat transfer will be. Take the finished "spring" and wrap it
around the exhaust pipe, securing it to either the muff end or its
self...
If you do use both crossover pipes, put a separate "spring" on each
pipe. The idea is to channel the carb inlet air over the springs, not
through areas where there are no spring coils, so an internal muff
baffle might be necessary....
The .032 safety wire might seem soft, but in a coiled form, it will
have more than enough rigidity....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
]On Behalf Of Fred Stucklen
Subject: RE: When the vibration stops
>
For those of you that want a better carb heat muff, I strongly suggest
NOT using the same muff as the cabin heat. Instead, construct a muff
around
one of the
crossover pipes directly above the carb air box. And to make more carb
heat
available, make a spring type device from .032 stainless safety wire,
and
wrap it around
the exhaust pipe under the muff.
I second Fred's comments and would even suggest that the carb heat muff
wrap
around both
crossover pipes.
Fred could you elaborate a bit on your "spring type device from .032
stainless safety wire"
the safety wire I have is quite soft, and I can't picture it wrapped as
a
spring.
Thanks
George McNutt
Langley, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin Heat (long) |
I have found a lot of good information on sealing and heating the cockpit on
this list and in the old RVators. I ended up using just about every
technique I could find in combination. This may sound like a lot of work but
it was only a day or two of effort.
Sealing the cockpit from drafts is critical. You can only get so many BTUs
worth of heat out of the heat muffs so you can't afford to waste any. From
front to rear, I sealed everything I could think of, including:
1. My standard 2" plastic eyeball vents have silicone seal "gaskets" as
recommended by Van's so they seal well when closed.
2. I made aileron pushrod boots out of old tent fly material (my first
Oshkosh tent...sniff). These are sealed and riveted to the outside floor
ribs. It is a good idea to use wind-proof material or you may get air
seepage.
3. The area between the spar bulkhead/carry through and the forward floor
panels had a few gaps. When I had the floor panels off at annual, I sealed
these gaps with bits of foam. The black sound insulation foam works well as
it is the closed-cell type and does not let air seep through. Ordinary
polyfoam is quite permeable. I also sealed the small gap between the spar
webs in the middle, and around my wiring and trim cable penetration points.
4. I made sure my stick boots sealed snugly to the stick.
5. Gaps around the seat belt anchors and the rear J-stringers were sealed
with RTV.
6. The flap actuating shaft was sealed where it penetrates the baggage
sidewalls. I used a couple of pieces of foam with half moon cutouts that are
glued to the inside of the panel and ride against the shaft.
7. The sliding canopy skirts were sealed with V-seal cut from a racing
bicycle inner tube. This idea also comes from the RVator. The V-seal is
attached to the skirts with double sided tape. One long piece seals along
the full canopy rail. A couple of inches of self-adhesive foam weatherstrip
seal in the area of the rear nylon blocks (sorry for not using part numbers,
I don't have my pans at hand). Then for the aft few inches of skirt, another
piece of inner tube V-seal, this time attached to the top of the longeron.
Note that ordinary plastic hardware store V-seal didn't work at all. The
inner tube V-seal is more flexible and work great.
8. I used 1/4" self adhesive foam (I use the very slight white stuff)
weatherstripping on the inside of the rear skirt, sealing against the aft
turtledeck skin.
9. I made a "sliding block seal" for the rear canopy rail. This is hard to
describe but I think I found it in one of the "xx years of RVator books".
10. I glued little triangles of foam into the gaps in the rear bulkheads.
I found that the front of the slider, where it meets the windshield, seals
just fine with no weatherstripping at all.
On the firewall, to avoid CO etc. getting in, I prosealed along every seam
from the inside of the cockpit, followed by 3/4 insulation foam, foil and
aluminum duct tape, so it's essentially double-sealed. On the engine side of
the firewall, all penetration points were sealed with red RTV, even if they
already had a rubber grommet or whatever.
For heat, I used a 2" scat tube off the rear baffle, into a Y connector. One
side of the Y goes through two Robbins heat muffs, connected in series, to
the hot side of a Van's hot/cold air mixing valve. The other side of the Y
goes to the cold side of the mixing valve. On the inside of the cockpit, I
made a lightweight fibreglass plenum to distribute the heat evenly to both
sides. This gives much more even heat distribiution than a single big 2"
hole.
I routed the heat muff ducting so that the air flows in the opposite
direction of the exhaust. I don't know the exact thermodynamics at work
here, but this apparently gives the maximum possible heat transfer.
I have stainless scrubbers installed in the muffs at the moment, but I'm not
sure that they do much besides restrict the air flow. Without the scrubbers,
I had to throttle the air intake down to about 50% for the right amount of
flow. With the scrubbers installed, I have the flow restriction removed and
I seem to get about the same amount of heat and flow. I'll have to
experiment some more with this. I think I read somewhere that Rick Robbins
says don't bother with springs or scrubbers, but they seem to work for some.
I recommend testing your heat output with the air intake blocked 25%, 50%,
75% and totally open and see which gives the best heat. I think this will
vary from aircraft to aircraft depending on how much restriction there is in
your heating system.
So far I'm using about 1/2 heat in -15C (5F) weather at 75% throttle and
find it very comfortable. I can't feel any cold drafts at all, and my CO
meter reads 0.0 ppm all the time - except when I take it off to test it by
blowing smoke into it - then it shoots right up to 90+, so it seems to be
working.
If anyone is interested I can get some photos up on my web site.
Curt
Winnipeg, Canada (naturally)
RV-6 C-GACR 85 hours and no way am I stoppin' for winter!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Cabin Heat
>
>
> > I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every
> > time I try to check the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is
> > very little if any at all. Just a big blast of air.
>
> There is an optimum volume of air that should pass through the heater
> for the most comfort. Too much air and it won't be warm enough, too
> little and while it will be quite hot, it won't heat the cabin.
> Specifically, it won't drive out the cold drafts. Mine are restricted
> (at the baffle pick off point) almost completely, and there is still
> enough to really get things warm. If I did it again, I'd be tempted to
> use 1" scat, 2" is a major overkill.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 421 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy skirt pics and questions. |
My handle is a piece of 3/4" angle about 2 inches long. Very low drag.
I think my lock is shown in the archives somewhere. I did mine while
parked at Oshkosh as I didn't realize I ought to have a lock till just
before I left. A cheap little lock from the travel trailer shop ..... oh, oh.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
Hi Tracy,
Tell us what will power the RV8? Will it be a turbo three rotor?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Scotch-Brite |
Long before I started building an RV, I brought home industrial grade Scotch-Brite
pads for use in my home shop. When I carelessly left one in the kitchen sink,
my wife by sheer happenstance discovered how efficient Scotch-Brite is at
cleaning pots and pans. She never looked back. Later, she tried the type that
is sold in supermarkets everywhere, but they aren't a patch compared to the quality
of the industrial grade version. I guess what I'm saying is $37.99 for a
box of 60 Scotch-Brite pads is a good deal and might not be a "sexy" Christmas
present, but it sure is a useful one.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
Subject:
Scotch-BriteFrom: chris (1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net)Date: Tue
Dec 02 - 5:28 PM
---------------------------------
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP Since the typical aircraft charging system does not even come close to properly
charging an
AGM, you should only expect a fraction of the rated capacity of your battery.
SNIP
So, what do you recommend to charge it properly??? Or is it even possible? Or
even worth worrying about?
Thanks,
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | re: AFS Waterbourne painting |
Don't be fooled into thinking this is a entirely "safe" product.
Waterborne paint products are offered by most all the paint companys.
BASF, PPG, Dupont & S/W all offer a Waterborne paint product. (I just
completed a small project using BASF Glasurit 90 series waterborne). In
ASF's case, water is used, in small portions, as a thinner but this ASF
product is a 2K paint system and you do add the hardener component when
mixing this paint for spray application. This hardener component is
where the ISO's are introduced and you still need a positive air
breathing system to cope with the ISO's. You are right in that there is
less "solvent" smell; in my experience the solvent smell disapates
rather quickly anyway. You should be VERY concerned with the breathing
air and the effects of the ISO's in the air that may linger. In a closed
environment, you may have less detectable, noticable smell in the
waterborne product but the bad components of the polyurathane you are
spraying are still present......you just can't smell them due to lack of
trace "solvent" fumes....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE: RV-List Digest: 53 Msgs - 12/02/03 |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Regarding the need to remove alclad, here's a bit more info....
SNIP For other aluminum alloys such as cast or 2024 alloy, use a desmut/deoxidizer
as a pre step before anodizing. This step comes right after the cleaning step
and before anodizing. It prepares the alloys surface for anodizing by removing
other NON-aluminum metals from the surface. Example: 2024 alloy has 5% copper.
This alloy along with others should be desmutted before anodizing so a pure
surface is presented to the anodizing tank. When doing 6000 series it is not
as important, but I use a desmut step no matter what alloy I am anodizing.
Desmut is a mixture of sulfuric and ferric acid. It is mixed with water to make
a bath just like the cleaner is. Desmut is done at room temperature for 1-5
minutes depending on the alloy. Desmut comes with most anodizing kits. It you
are just anodizing 6061, then you can skip this step. However, it improves the
quality of 6061's anodized surface. SNIP
But I have to wonder why would you need to remove the alclad since it's pure aluminum????
I would think that the alclad would perform the best... better than
any of the alloys.
I've seen several sets of engine baffles anodized. Surely they didn't buff all
of the alclad off of them before anodizing... did they? Anyone know for sure?
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Going faster |
Hi Guys-
First and foremost, to those who think you are full of it, you now have
some competition (insert little wink thingy here...).
The aircraft is a B737-800W (winglet). The VG's are on the underside of
the LE and do project fwd of their mounting, but I don't think that they
project fwd enough to affect the upper surface flow. Also, they are canted
in yaw only as far as I can recall, which would make them streamlined to
the upwash. As far as the mach induced separation goes, I would anticipate
that at the wing roots, not the tips. And what do you mean anyway,
implying that my RV won't do .75???? Hmmmmpppff!
I recently spoke with a fella at work who said that his understanding was
that these LE widgets were in fact a substitute for flow fences. I'll try
to get some pix today at work, if anyone is interested.
gm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: AFS Waterbourne painting |
I talked to Terry at AFS and specifically asked the question about
external breathing air. She said that it is unnecessary, that a good
cartridge system provides all the protection needed. Their system does
not generate the poisonous products that the solvent based products do.
I suggest that you might want to talk to them. I don't know what your
qualifications are, but I have to assume that since AFS uses their own
products in their shop, they know what they are talking about and are
not slowly poisoning there entire workforce.
This is not my opinion, just my $0.02 based on my discussion with AFS.
Dick Tasker, RV9A 90573
P M Condon wrote:
>
>Don't be fooled into thinking this is a entirely "safe" product.
>Waterborne paint products are offered by most all the paint companys.
>BASF, PPG, Dupont & S/W all offer a Waterborne paint product. (I just
>completed a small project using BASF Glasurit 90 series waterborne). In
>ASF's case, water is used, in small portions, as a thinner but this ASF
>product is a 2K paint system and you do add the hardener component when
>mixing this paint for spray application. This hardener component is
>where the ISO's are introduced and you still need a positive air
>breathing system to cope with the ISO's. You are right in that there is
>less "solvent" smell; in my experience the solvent smell disapates
>rather quickly anyway. You should be VERY concerned with the breathing
>air and the effects of the ISO's in the air that may linger. In a closed
>environment, you may have less detectable, noticable smell in the
>waterborne product but the bad components of the polyurathane you are
>spraying are still present......you just can't smell them due to lack of
>trace "solvent" fumes....
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>Professor Bill, while you are at it, where do the nickel-metal hydride
>batteries fit in? I often see these used for rechargeable and portable apps
>like the Segway.
This is a bit off topic, but since you asked....
NiMH batteries hold about half again more energy per kg than
NiCads, but much less than Li-Ion. They are nearly as robust as NiCads as
well. They cost a touch more than NiCads.
The two main disadvantages of NiMH is they have high self
discharge and they contain cadmium, a toxic metal. The self discharge is
high enough that they typically go flat in few weeks. This is not really
acceptable for a starting battery, especially in a General Aviation
aircraft that may be left in the hangar for a month or more.
Li-Ion batteries will eventually displace NiMH batteries in most
applications. I predict that in about 5 years there will be virtually no
NiMH batteries in new products.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fwd: Airmap 500 and 1000 |
From: "Mei, Don" <DMei(at)enfield.org>
Subject: Airmap 500 and 1000
Date: Wed, 3 Dec 2003 12:03:40 -0500
I'm at work and can't post to the RV list from this email address. Can you
forward this to the list for me.
Thanks.
I went to AOPA in Philly about a month ago and got to see the 500 and 1000.
The 1000 was the only functioning pre-production unit they had in the
country. Thoughts:
Airmap 500 - WOW what a deal. very high contrast display. nice logic, not
quite as intuitive as Garmin, but very good. PACKAG INCLUDES computer cable
as well as all software necessary to make this function as a high level
automotive GPS. i.e. take me to 123 main street anytown, Ohio. And it
will take you there. All for $500 ish. Fantastic. Memory is standard
SD/MM card used by digital cameras. Buy a bigger one and you can store more
driving data. (aviation data is built in) Also surprising was how slim
this unit is. Looked like it could slide into a back pocket.
Airmap 1000 - Yes It is 2.5 inches thick. (surprising since 500 is so
thin) I don't know why, and neither did the rep. Display is BIG. Same
size as a GNS 530. But the pre production screen was neither as bright nor
as contrasty as the 500's screen (still as good as a Garmin 196) Rep said
production unit will be as bright as 500's . Regardless, if you see a 500
DO NOT assume the 1000 will be just as bright. It also comes with the same
driving software. I am thinking this thing will mount nicely just below my
Dynon.
Both units had the very nice extended runway centerline for emergency
"instrument " approaches as well as WAAS. You can read about the features
on the web page, I just thought I'd give my personal experiences.
Best regards,
Don Mei
RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
Airmap 500 and 1000
I'm at work and can't post to the RV list from this email address. Can you forward
this to the list for me.
Thanks.
I went to AOPA in Philly about a month ago and got to see the 500 and 1000. The
1000 was the only functioning pre-production unit they had in the country.
Thoughts:
Airmap 500 - WOW what a deal. very high contrast display. nice logic, not quite
as intuitive as Garmin, but very good. PACKAG INCLUDES computer cable as well
as all software necessary to make this function as a high level automotive GPS.
i.e. take me to 123 main street anytown, Ohio. And it will take you there.
All for $500 ish. Fantastic. Memory is standard SD/MM card used by digital cameras.
Buy a bigger one and you can store more driving data. (aviation data is
built in) Also surprising was how slim this unit is. Looked like it could slide
into a back pocket.
Airmap 1000 - Yes It is 2.5 inches thick. (surprising since 500 is so thin) I don't
know why, and neither did the rep. Display is BIG. Same size as a GNS 530.
But the pre production screen was neither as bright nor as contrasty as the
500's screen (still as good as a Garmin 196) Rep said production unit will be
as bright as 500's . Regardless, if you see a 500 DO NOT assume the 1000 will
be just as bright. It also comes with the same driving software. I am thinking
this thing will mount nicely just below my Dynon.
Both units had the very nice extended runway centerline for emergency instrument
approaches as well as WAAS. You can read about the features on the web page,
I just thought I'd give my personal experiences.
Best regards,
Don Mei
RV-4
3B9 - Chester, CT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Bill,
This is interesting stuff (I'm cc'ing this post to the Aeroelectric list since
it's very relevant to the subject matter discussed there). I've pondered my options
for a backup battery on my dual Lightspeed -8A. I've settled on the 16
ah Odyssey for my main battery, and this should give me a pretty good reserve
if the alternator craps out because my essential loads for panel and one Lightspeed
ignition are 3-4 Amps max. The backup battery will feed only the other
ignition system and is normally charged from the main battery/alternator via a
Schottky diode. So....odds of the backup battery ever being called upon to do
its job of keeping the engine running after everything else is dead is pretty
unlikely. Chances are it will just be dead weight for the life of the airplane.
With that in mind, I'd like to minimize the amount of dead weight that I
have to carry around for that improbable "just in case" scenario.
The cheapest/simplest way (and recommended by Klaus Savier when using dual Lightspeeds)
is to put in a SLA 4.5 ah backup battery. These can be had for $10-30
from what I've seen online, but they weigh 4-5 lbs, and should probably be changed
every other year to make sure the capacity is there if you ever need it.
Lithium Ion sounds appealing due to it's light weight, but as you pointed out,
charging is not so simple (Eric Jones, are you out there? Weren't you working
on a charging management module for Lithium Ions in airplanes?). Not sure
about NiMH...they seem to be getting more popular in lots of consumer stuff.
Too expensive? Charging issues??
But anyway...you are recommending NiCads. My experience with them has been limited
to R/C models and hasn't been too stellar. I always tried to cycle them
properly but even then they seemed to go bad just as fast as the lead acids I've
used (2-4 years). But let's say, ignoring price for a moment, I wanted a 4-5
ah, 12 V NiCad pack. Can you recommend any specific sources to get such an
animal? Google didn't turn up too much for me, and what little I found (in the
$150-200 range) had no specs for weight. And if I were to install a 12V NiCad
pack, can I just drop it in place of the current location for my backup battery,
always having it on charge from the alternator via a Schottky, and expect
it to perform well if needed? How many years would I be able to expect reliable
operation from it before needing replacement?
If I have to replace it every other year (like I would the SLA), and it costs 5-10X
the price and only saves a couple pounds, it obviously doesn't make much
sense. If it only needs to be replaced every decade, then the weight savings
plus reduced hassle of frequent replacements makes the price look more attractive....
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D finishing....
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: RV-List: batteries
>
>
>I'll have to go look at the model number but it is a common (large >size) motorcycle
battery from NAPA. They supply several models of >the same physical size
that vary from 17 to 22 AH and I picked the >highest one. Price was highest
too, about $65 as I recall. Trouble >is I don't know what the discharge rate
was for that spec. >Generally, the faster you drain a lead acid battery the
lower its >rating goes, so the difference in ratings might not even be real
if >they used different discharge rates.
There is a formula you can use called "Peukert's Equation" that allows
you to calculate the amp-hr capacity of the battery at any discharge rate. To
set the two constants in the equation, you must know the actual capacity at two
different discharge rates.
Here is a link to a Peukert calculator:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/battery.html
>It takes about 12 amps to keep my controllers, pumps, ignition coils >(4) and
injectors fed. The 22 AH should last well over 1 hr but it >doesn't.
The amp-hr specification is at the 20 hr discharge rate. Thus, if you
had a draw of 1.1 amps, the battery would supply 22 amp-hrs over the 20 hours
that it took to run it flat. If instead, you pulled 22 amps from it, it would
might last only 15 or 20 minutes before it was dead.
"Stiff" batteries with high CCAs and low internal resistance do not suffer
as badly from this problem. Also, NiCad batteries and Li-Ion batteries lose
very little capacity at modestly high discharges. That is another reason that
they make excellent back-up type batteries.
> The 22 AH rating is probably at a very low current draw. The CCA >rating is
pretty low on this battery but the Mazda rotary doesn't >take much torque to
crank. No valve train to operate and only 3 >moving parts.
If you were to get a battery with a greater CCA, but a slightly lower
amp-hr capacity, it would probably run your airplane longer without an alternator.
>My thanks to Bill Dube for the quick course on batteries. Just the >info I needed
to make an intelligent choice for the -8 I'm building. >I'll probably spring
for the ni-cads and leave the motorcycle battery >in the -4 test mule.
Some of the aircraft style starting batteries can produce
startlingly high CCA's, last nearly forever, and have excellent "dead
alternator" capacity for their weight. They cost a fortune, however.
Typically five to eight times the cost of a similar CCA lead-acid battery.
Ouch!
If you are interested in just the one hour capacity, and are not going
to use the NiCad to start the airplane, the cost is not as painful. For the same
one-hour capacity, a flooded NiCad will weigh about 1/2 as much as a lead-acid
battery and will cost _just_ three to four times as much.
Aircraft starting NiCads are often available used and are often in very
good condition used. However, there are many models and styles and they all
don't have good CCA ratings. You can ruin NiCads if you stray beyond their peak
amperage (discharge) ratings. Also, some folks try to sell worn-out NiCads,
or even give them away, because they are expensive to "throw" away as they contain
cadmium. Load test before you buy a used NiCad!
If you are planning a two battery system for reliability, probably the
best choice would be an AGM for starting and a NiCad for back-up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | WTB - Rv-4 Empenage and Fuselage |
I'm looking for RV-4 fuse and empenage....((Have The WINGS!!..Have the engine...
Need the rest of the airframe.))
Looking to buy a never started, or barely started but extremely well built -4 project.
need the Fuselage, Finishing Kit and the Empenage. Trying to build a Hybrid
-4. Also need to find a fixed pitch 3-blade prop for an RV-4 O-320. If you
know of where I can buy one please email me.
Please call Ron @ 510-421-2316.
or email scc_ron(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob U." <rv3(at)comcast.net> |
Bill Dube wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Professor Bill, while you are at it, where do the nickel-metal hydride
>>batteries fit in? I often see these used for rechargeable and portable apps
>>like the Segway.
>>
>>
>
>
> The two main disadvantages of NiMH is they have high self
>discharge and they contain cadmium, a toxic metal. The self discharge is
>high enough that they typically go flat in few weeks. This is not really
>acceptable for a starting battery, especially in a General Aviation
>aircraft that may be left in the hangar for a month or more.
>
========================================
See...
http://www.allegromicro.com/techpub2/cadex/index32.htm
The NiMH is currently labeled "environmentally friendly".
NiCd and NiMH both have high self discharge rates.
Additionally, the memory of Nicads is a bummer to live with, requiring total
discharge from time to time and careful attention NOT to overcharge, so....
Nicads are out and NiMH are in for my Airmap, Garmin 295 and all
digital cameras. Goodbye AA NiCds... FOREVER.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>The cheapest/simplest way (and recommended by Klaus Savier when using dual
>Lightspeeds) is to put in a SLA 4.5 ah backup battery. These can be had
>for $10-30 from what I've seen online, but they weigh 4-5 lbs, and should
>probably be changed every other year to make sure the capacity is there if
>you ever need it.
Yes, they would tend to age more quickly if not cycled periodically.
> Lithium Ion sounds appealing due to it's light weight, but as you
> pointed out, charging is not so simple (Eric Jones, are you out there?
> Weren't you working on a charging management module for Lithium Ions in
> airplanes?). Not sure about NiMH...they seem to be getting more popular
> in lots of consumer stuff. Too expensive? Charging issues??
Could work. Not too expensive. No major charging issues.
>But anyway...you are recommending NiCads. My experience with them has
>been limited to R/C models and hasn't been too stellar. I always tried to
>cycle them properly but even then they seemed to go bad just as fast as
>the lead acids I've used (2-4 years).
You are torturing them in typical RC use. The chargers are not at
all gentle and are not at all intelligent. Also, the RC batteries are
designed for low cost and high power, not long life span.
The 4 amp-hr pack on this page looks inexpensive enough. Doesn't
say the weight, however:
http://www.aaaim.com/cgi-local/shop991/shop.pl/SID=90211652537/page=REGS.htm#NCBP2100
Of course you can get them new:
http://www.saftbatteries.com/020-MS_Aviation/20-30-10_technology.asp
>But let's say, ignoring price for a moment, I wanted a 4-5 ah, 12 V NiCad
>pack. Can you recommend any specific sources to get such an
>animal? Google didn't turn up too much for me, and what little I found
>(in the $150-200 range) had no specs for weight. And if I were to install
>a 12V NiCad pack, can I just drop it in place of the current location for
>my backup battery, always having it on charge from the alternator via a
>Schottky, and expect it to perform well if needed? How many years would I
>be able to expect reliable operation from it before needing replacement?
>
>If I have to replace it every other year (like I would the SLA), and it
>costs 5-10X the price and only saves a couple pounds, it obviously doesn't
>make much sense. If it only needs to be replaced every decade, then the
>weight savings plus reduced hassle of frequent replacements makes the
>price look more attractive....
High quality flooded (wet) type NiCads will last for many many
years. The less expensive "dry" type that is commonly used for consumer
products will last for a couple of years, maybe longer.
I haven't tested any of them, but I would suspect that the
high-quality power tool NiCad packs, like Bosch, might be something to try
out. It would certainly be easy to find a replacement. :-)
It would probably be a good idea, no matter what type of battery
selected, to cycle test the back-up battery as part of the annual inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com> |
OhioValleyRVators(at)yahoogroups.com
Does anyone have any good pictures of the completed baffles ( particularly
the air seals), on the 8 or any RV? The instructions leave a lot to be
desired. I cant tell how to trim the seals once they are done.
Thanks
Al Grajek
Baffled!
Shop online for kids toys by age group, price range, and toy category at
MSN Shopping. No waiting for a clerk to help you! http://shopping.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
> > The two main disadvantages of NiMH is they have high self
> >discharge and they contain cadmium, a toxic metal. The self discharge is
> >high enough that they typically go flat in few weeks. This is not really
> >acceptable for a starting battery, especially in a General Aviation
> >aircraft that may be left in the hangar for a month or more.
> >
>========================================
>See...
>http://www.allegromicro.com/techpub2/cadex/index32.htm
>
>The NiMH is currently labeled "environmentally friendly".
Ah. They no longer contain toxic metals. Good.
>NiCd and NiMH both have high self discharge rates.
All NiMH have at least 1% to 2% self discharge per day. Some are
even worse. Thus, they go to 50% SOC in about a month, maybe less depending
on the temperature.
AGM lead-acid batteries will typically take a year to self
discharge to 50% SOC.
Typical NiCad batteries take 4 to 5 months to get to 50% SOC.
("Battery Reference Book, TR Crompton, 2nd edition, 1995,
Butterworth-Heinemann)
This all depends strongly on temperature of course.
>Additionally, the memory of Nicads is a bummer to live with, requiring total
>discharge from time to time and careful attention NOT to overcharge, so....
None of this is correct.
"The memory effect does not manifest itself when the cells are
subjected to random charge/discharge regimens." according to the reference
sited above. If you give the cells the recommended amount of overcharge,
the memory effect is erased. Only sintered-plate cells exhibit memory
effects. "Pocket plate" type cells, like you find in most consumer
applications, do NOT develop the memory effect under any circumstances.
Indeed, putting a NiCad battery though a conditioning cycle will
increase it's capacity. (I could bore you with the details about
undercharge of the negative plate...) Most folks think that their battery
has developed a "memory" problem, but it is a straightforward loss of
capacity, not the memory effect. Generally, this loss of capacity is caused
by inadequate overcharge, believe it or not.
You can. indeed, get full a-hr capacity from a battery that has
developed memory problems. All that happens is there is a larger voltage
drop than usual during the "memory" portion of the discharge.
While it is not harmful, and is likely to be useful, to fully
discharge and then recharge NiCads, they really don't _need_ this.
NiCads of all sorts NEED to be overcharged slightly to fully
charge the negative plate. Generally, a 5% to 10% overcharge is
recommended. The typical sealed NiCad that is in your cordless drill can
take a LOT of overcharge without damage. You typically bulk charge a sealed
NiCad at an amperage that is 1/10 the amp-hr capacity. You can grossly
overcharge them with 1/100 the A-hr capacity indefinitely without damage.
Conversely, you must be very careful not to grossly overcharge
NiMH batteries. You will lose capacity if you do. That is why some types of
simplistic NiCad chargers will damage NiMH batteries. You also must be
careful not to grossly overcharge AGMs as they will lose too much water and
will thus lose capacity.
>Nicads are out and NiMH are in for my Airmap, Garmin 295 and all
>digital cameras. Goodbye AA NiCds... FOREVER.
NiMH batteries do have about 50% more capacity than NiCads of the
same size and weight. That is the only advantage.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
The -8 will be powered with a 3 rotor 20B engine. No turbo for me. The 20B was
turbocharged in the Cosmo Luce (Japan only car) and rated at 350 HP. It will
make about 270 HP when normally aspirated.
Sounds like I'm planning on a go-fast airplane but its not. The -8 will have longer
wings (26' span), an Ox system and will cruise at 20,000 ft where the engine
will make only 115 HP. It should go fairly fast but burn relatively little
fuel. Down low it should out-climb Rockets.
Tracy Crook
----- Original Message -----
From: kempthornes
Hi Tracy,
Tell us what will power the RV8? Will it be a turbo three rotor?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> |
,
| Subject: | Re: RV 8 Baffles |
http://vondane.com/rv8a/engine/baffles.htm
http://www.vafml.org/members/rlynn/page2.htm
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - Colorado
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
;
Subject: RV-List: RV 8 Baffles
Does anyone have any good pictures of the completed baffles ( particularly
the air seals), on the 8 or any RV? The instructions leave a lot to be
desired. I cant tell how to trim the seals once they are done.
Thanks
Al Grajek
Baffled!
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi folks. Anyone know of locking fuel caps that will fit Van's tanks? We are
already flying RV8. If not, are there any after market non-locking caps or is
Van's the only source?
BTW, where can I get them engraved?
Thanks,
Doug Preston
RV8 N127EK
EKY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Patterson <scc_ron(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | WTB - Rv-4 Empenage and Fuselage |
I'm looking for RV-4 fuse and empenage....((Have The WINGS!!..Have the
engine... Need the rest of the airframe.))
Looking to buy a never started, or barely started but extremely well
built -4 project. need the Fuselage, Finishing Kit and the Empenage.
Trying to build a Hybrid -4. Also need to find a fixed pitch 3-blade prop
for an RV-4 O-320. If you know of where I can buy one please email me.
Please call Ron @ 510-421-2316.
or email scc_ron(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Propeller performance testing |
-
Subject: Re: RV-List: Propeller performance testing
According to the efficiency data provided to me from MT Propeller, the
MT
Propeller efficiency almost level from 2300 RPM to 2700 RPM.
Jim Ayers
Jim: This is good to know. It implies that the MT doesn't have the
performance drop above 2500 that the Hartzell seems to have. If you do
get them to build what you refer to as a racing prop, it would be
interesting to know how it compares with others at cruise rpm's.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | EIS, prop limits? |
I flew a rental recently that had a digital tach, whose red light
reminded me when I was loitering within the "bad" RPM limits of the
prop. Has anyone programmed this functionality into their EIS engine
monitor? Is it possible? Recommended?
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 finish
2003 - The year of fli... nevermind
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Vasey" <keith(at)galvinflying.com> |
Hi all. I have decided to use some WEMAC type eyeballs that require a 1"
attachment. I will, of course, need to attach the other end to Van's 2" NACA
inlets.
I'm guessing that what I need is 1" scat tube and an adapter for the Van's
end or simply an adapter for the WEMAC end and use Van's 2" scat tube. Does
anybody have an idea where I can find the 1" tubing and/or the adapter?
Thanks,
Keith Vasey
RV8
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: batteries/Rockets going Up |
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
Woah!, there Tracy--Out climb a Rocket!? Stop by the other side of the
state (Venice (VNC), FL--on the Gulf) and we'll do a little
head-to-head or, more likely, head-to-TAIL. I get an honest 4,200
ft/min when I point my nose at God (like he/she could really care!),
but, you never know, maybe he/she likes the attention. I also have 160
hp at 50% power. I get about 2,500 ft in a straight vertical climb
before I have to kick rudder, and pivot, on a really good day--seems
like it used to be more, before my divorce--but, I digress--still, I
love that woman, so much--and I'm sure you guys really want to hear
about it. Yeah.
Boyd.
Super 6
Venice, FL
On Wednesday, December 3, 2003, at 05:24 PM, Tracy Crook wrote:
>
>
> The -8 will be powered with a 3 rotor 20B engine. No turbo for me.
> The 20B was turbocharged in the Cosmo Luce (Japan only car) and rated
> at 350 HP. It will make about 270 HP when normally aspirated.
>
> Sounds like I'm planning on a go-fast airplane but its not. The -8
> will have longer wings (26' span), an Ox system and will cruise at
> 20,000 ft where the engine will make only 115 HP. It should go fairly
> fast but burn relatively little fuel. Down low it should out-climb
> Rockets.
>
> Tracy Crook
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: kempthornes
>
>
> Hi Tracy,
>
> Tell us what will power the RV8? Will it be a turbo three rotor?
>
> hal
>
>
> _-
> ======================================================================
> _-> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Tank building advice |
Finally got around to leak testing my tanks, 3 years after building
them. You want to let that proseal get good and cured, you know... And
they both leak! And both in the same place. I see now what I did
wrong, and here's hoping others can learn from my screw-up.
The leaks are in the corners, where the aft edge of the end ribs connect
to the rear baffle. There are a total of 8 such places (4 per tank) and
6 of them leak like seives! I could hear, and in a few cases feel the
air coming out. No need for soapy water! The solution has proved to
be, of course, more proseal, in the form of a large fillet inside the
tank, and more outside in the leak areas. I really should have done
this during tank assembly, and yes, I did use a lot of proseal (1 1/3
cans) to do the tanks.
The good news is that there are no other leaks in either tank (tested
with air pressure and soapy water) so I must have done something right,
at least. Anybody getting ready to seal their tanks, pay close
attention to these corners!
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Leaks-Weep Testing |
| From: | Don.Alexander(at)AstenJohnson.com |
12/04/2003 08:49:51 AM
Do not be tricked into thinking that a pressurized air/bubble test will
find leaks in you fuel tanks. I hate to admit that I have become educated
about fuel weeps...much harder to find than leaks. Bubble tests will show
obvious leaks and are a great way to start proofing your tanks. I went to
the next level of testing- long term weep testing. I went to an auto parts
store and bought some ultraviolet dye for leak testing and added it to four
gallons of auto fuel. The fuel becomes florescent yellow. Be smart and
ground your fuel tank to a good ground and then ground your gas can to the
fuel tank before pouring...very important now that the dry air of winter is
here. Set the tank up and let it sit in one position for a week or so and
take a look at your rivets to see if there are signs of weeping. Rotate
the tank to expose untested areas to the fuel and wait another week. I
found five rivets that weeped fuel during my testing. All were on the rear
baffle to skin joint. These weeps probably don't amount to much loss of
fuel, but I am sure that had I waited until after painting to add fuel, my
paint would have blistered over the weep sites. The normal green Loc Tite
fix didn't solve the problem for me, so I had to go back into the tank.
The only good thing that has come out of all of this (Other than teaching
me patience) is that I found that my inverted fuel tank flapper valve had
sealed itself shut (or almost so) with a tiny dot of proseal when I closed
the rear baffle up. Had I not gone back into the tank, I would have found
that the inner-most bay would have taken a lonnnng time to fill with fuel
and would require addressing down the road. I designed the flapper valve
with an intentional leak that would allow fuel to still feed the engine in
case the valve became stuck, (Engineering around potential failure modes)
so the engine would have been fine.
Don Alexander
RV-8 Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS Waterbourne painting |
In reply to your recent post on AFS: AFS provides more then one
waterborne paint system. My comments were on the two part polyurathane
waterborne offering from AFS. Here is a clip from their web site:
PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
".....Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne TWO-PART POLYURETHANE
TOPCOAT is a
solvent free, water dispersible polyisocyanate. It provides outstanding
coverage, excellent durability, and ease of application as well as being
a low
VOC and EPA compliant coating. Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne
Two-Part
Polyurethane Topcoat offers superior adhesion and has film properties
that
exceed most solvent based catalyzed polyurethane systems......"
Notice the mention of ISO's in the description. Also, nowhere in the AFS
website is there mention of safety or breathing concerns. I think it
only prudent to error on the save side when using this(or any)
Polyurathane paint by using the proper breathing equipment.
I talked to Terry at AFS and specifically asked the question about
external breathing air. She said that it is unnecessary, that a good
cartridge system provides all the protection needed. Their system does
not generate the poisonous products that the solvent based products do.
I suggest that you might want to talk to them. I don't know what your
qualifications are, but I have to assume that since AFS uses their own
products in their shop, they know what they are talking about and are
not slowly poisoning there entire workforce.
This is not my opinion, just my $0.02 based on my discussion with AFS.
Dick Tasker, RV9A 90573
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
Steve,
Actually you need to restrict the airflow OUT of the heat muff. I used a
piece of duct tape (temporary fix) over 25% the hole through the fire wall.
Slows the air down through the heat muff so it has a chance to heat up.
Noel
RV-6A Phase I complete in 10 days at temperatures from +10C -15C.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Steve Glasgow
Subject: RV-List: Cabin Heat
Greetings,
I now have 25 hours in my recently completed RV-8 and every time I try to
check the Cabin Heat it seems as if there is very little if any at all.
Just a big blast of air.
My instillation is a standard heater mounted on the right exhaust with air
drawn from the aft baffle on the # 3 cylinder. The air is ducted to the
heater with 2" SCAT and then to a standard air box mounted on the firewall
entering the cabin between the rudder pedals.
Several hours ago I installed some "chor boy" copper scrubber pads in the
heater but there was no noticeable difference.
I'm thinking I may need to restrict some of the air flow in the intake.
Any ideas or thoughts. Thanks !
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | C P <yankeerv10(at)yahoo.com> |
Hi,
I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
buck for myself if that is possible...
cheers,
Chuck
RV grin installed in August '01
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
| Subject: | re: AFS Waterbourne painting |
I have really been looking for a place to buy the Glasurit waterborne pants.
Were can I get this and how do you like it? I have been looking for a good
paint and from the specifications this seams very nice.
Sincerely,
Noel Simmons
Blue Sky Aviation, Inc.
Phone & Fax: 406-538-6574
noel(at)blueskyaviation.net
www.blueskyaviation.net <http://www.blueskyaviation.net>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of P M Condon
Subject: RV-List: re: AFS Waterbourne painting
Don't be fooled into thinking this is a entirely "safe" product.
Waterborne paint products are offered by most all the paint companys.
BASF, PPG, Dupont & S/W all offer a Waterborne paint product. (I just
completed a small project using BASF Glasurit 90 series waterborne). In
ASF's case, water is used, in small portions, as a thinner but this ASF
product is a 2K paint system and you do add the hardener component when
mixing this paint for spray application. This hardener component is
where the ISO's are introduced and you still need a positive air
breathing system to cope with the ISO's. You are right in that there is
less "solvent" smell; in my experience the solvent smell disapates
rather quickly anyway. You should be VERY concerned with the breathing
air and the effects of the ISO's in the air that may linger. In a closed
environment, you may have less detectable, noticable smell in the
waterborne product but the bad components of the polyurathane you are
spraying are still present......you just can't smell them due to lack of
trace "solvent" fumes....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building solo |
Chuck, I had a simlar problem - my wife's view was "that's YOUR project". I
found that I could rivet it all with two hands (not always easily though).
I stand 5' 9" with proprotional arm length. Actually there were two places
where I had to have help and she did assit there. One was the second
bulkhead behind the baggage compartment - just could not reach from the
baggage compartment or the tail cone and hold both the bucking bar and rivet
gun on a rivet there. The second place was where the aluminum floor sheet
between the firewall and the spare area needed riviting near the spar area
(seems like there may have been a couple of rivet lines in that area).
It would appear that a QB kit would eliminate those two problem areas (and
many other). Also, I think you will get a consistently better driven rivet
when you have a bucking partner or at least don't have to stretch for those
distant rivets - but it can be done.
FWIW
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "C P" <yankeerv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Building solo
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
> notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
> pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
> get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
> I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
> schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
> slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
> solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
> help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
> buck for myself if that is possible...
>
> cheers,
> Chuck
> RV grin installed in August '01
>
>
> __________________________________
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Calhoun" <roncal(at)earthlink.net> |
Chuck, I too have long arms and I built my -4 by myself. I bet I did not
have help bucking rivets more than five times during construction. Just a
little planning.
Ron
RV-4 Flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P
Subject: RV-List: Building solo
Hi,
I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
buck for myself if that is possible...
cheers,
Chuck
RV grin installed in August '01
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building solo |
| From: | Boyd Braem <bcbraem(at)comcast.net> |
DO NOT BUILD A PULLED-RIVET AIRPLANE.
Bradley, Zenith, what ever--so sue me.
Boyd.
New Zealand.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Vasey" <keith(at)galvinflying.com> |
Chuck,
I have an -8QB project and am at the point where all the riveting is done.
Throughout the process, my wife has been very supportive of me working on it
by myself. I did get some help from a friend on bucking the horizontial
stab. Nevertheless, I believe a QB is very doable without assistance and I'm
guessing a standard kit would be less "solo" friendly.
Keith Vasey
Seattle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P
Subject: RV-List: Building solo
Hi,
I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
buck for myself if that is possible...
cheers,
Chuck
RV grin installed in August '01
__________________________________
Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
http://companion.yahoo.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AFS Waterbourne painting |
That is the paint that I talked to Terry about and that I have
purchased. - the two part polyurethane - and she said that a respirator
was not needed. I don't remember the technical details of her
explanation, but it was something about there being no free isocyanates
in the catalyzed paint. As I said, they use this paint in their shop.
Maybe you could call them and get an independent confirmation/refutation
of this issue regarding their paint.
Dick Tasker
P M Condon wrote:
>In reply to your recent post on AFS: AFS provides more then one
>waterborne paint system. My comments were on the two part polyurathane
>waterborne offering from AFS. Here is a clip from their web site:
>
>
>PRODUCT DESCRIPTION
>".....Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne TWO-PART POLYURETHANE
>TOPCOAT is a
>solvent free, water dispersible polyisocyanate. It provides outstanding
>coverage, excellent durability, and ease of application as well as being
>a low
>VOC and EPA compliant coating. Aircraft Finishing Systems Waterborne
>Two-Part
>Polyurethane Topcoat offers superior adhesion and has film properties
>that
>exceed most solvent based catalyzed polyurethane systems......"
>
>
>Notice the mention of ISO's in the description. Also, nowhere in the AFS
>website is there mention of safety or breathing concerns. I think it
>only prudent to error on the save side when using this(or any)
>Polyurathane paint by using the proper breathing equipment.
>
>
>I talked to Terry at AFS and specifically asked the question about
>external breathing air. She said that it is unnecessary, that a good
>cartridge system provides all the protection needed. Their system does
>not generate the poisonous products that the solvent based products do.
>
>I suggest that you might want to talk to them. I don't know what your
>qualifications are, but I have to assume that since AFS uses their own
>products in their shop, they know what they are talking about and are
>not slowly poisoning there entire workforce.
>
>This is not my opinion, just my $0.02 based on my discussion with AFS.
>
>Dick Tasker, RV9A 90573
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
I put an aluminum restrictor plate with a 3/8" hole on the baffle at the
entrance to the heater scat tube. It works well and lets the heater put
warmer air into the cabin. It probably helps for summer cooling too, as
less cooling air in the plenum escapes out into the heater muff.
I've got a single heater muff on the right side which was fine for
Albuquerque where I built my -6. It's not really enough for cold Winter
Park. Had I known I'd be living up here at the time I would have put in
dual systems on each side. Actually, its only a problem on cloudy days and
real early in the morning. When the sun is out mid day, its never too cold
under the big canopy.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building solo |
Hi Chuck,
Yes you will have some tasks such as the hard to reach rivets that do
require assistance. The old saw " two heads are better than one" still
applies ( the pun is gratis) g-}
There are so many builders out there, that unless you are way ...---...out
in the boonies it should not be difficult to get assistance as needed. Tell
the list where geographically you plan to build and my guess is someone will
be in range to help. Some guys will do anything for an excuse to fly
somewhere and be helpful.
A lunch and a beer or two and Bobs your uncle. Caution!! more than a few
beers and he might wind up being your long lost son!! ~~Hic! {[:)
If you are in a remote area it might take more planning but it is done by
people all over the world. The local shop class instructor might have in
mind someone with the right skills.
If you reside in North America, the EAA in the US or the RAA in Canada are
good sources of information and assistance etc.
As the wings and much of the fuse are built the Q-build kits do reduce the
helper required time but some assistance is still needed.
Careful assembly order planning can reduce the need for a helper to a degree
similar to or at least close to the Q-build requirements.
Every bit of information you cold imagine is in the RV-List archives. Where
to, how to, why to It takes a while to get onto how to ask the right
questions but it is all there.
I think you will find the RV group just as helpful as any other group that
start out to build a project and wind up sharing a passion. The friends met
along the way will add that something extra that cannot be explained.
Happy building, whatever apssion you choose,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "C P" <yankeerv10(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Building solo
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
> notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
> pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
> get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
> I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
> schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
> slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
> solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
> help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
> buck for myself if that is possible...
>
> cheers,
> Chuck
> RV grin installed in August '01
>
>
> __________________________________
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rebibb(at)comcast.net |
I built an RV-4 the old, "hard" way almost entirely alone. I did get help from
a friend to rivet the top skin on the fuselage but did all the rest alone.
It can be done.
>
> Chuck,
>
> I have an -8QB project and am at the point where all the riveting is done.
> Throughout the process, my wife has been very supportive of me working on it
> by myself. I did get some help from a friend on bucking the horizontial
> stab. Nevertheless, I believe a QB is very doable without assistance and I'm
> guessing a standard kit would be less "solo" friendly.
>
> Keith Vasey
> Seattle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Building solo
>
>
>
> Hi,
>
> I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
> notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
> pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
> get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
> I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
> schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
> slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
> solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
> help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
> buck for myself if that is possible...
>
> cheers,
> Chuck
> RV grin installed in August '01
>
>
> __________________________________
> Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Performance Drop (was: Propeller performance testing) |
In a message dated 12/03/2003 5:17:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,
gcomfo(at)tc3net.com writes:
Jim: This is good to know. It implies that the MT doesn't have the
performance drop above 2500 that the Hartzell seems to have. If you do
get them to build what you refer to as a racing prop, it would be
interesting to know how it compares with others at cruise rpm's.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
Hi All,
I am seeing a performance drop with the Hartzell propeller in my test results
at 2700 RPM at 7,500' pressure altitude only. At higher, or lower,
altitudes, I don't see this airspeed drop off.
Perhaps air is nonlinear.
One factor that is unclear to me is that the propeller near the tip is
operating in the transonic speed range. (I have seen propeller tip "design"
velocities of Mach 0.99 at 2700 RPM.)
I guess that's why I'm trying to gather empirical data.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Building solo |
I am building a 9A and so far I have done everything myself. I have not
done the top skins of the fuselage yet however and I suspect I may ned
help there for a few rivets.
Dick Tasker, 90573.
Keith Vasey wrote:
>
>Chuck,
>
>I have an -8QB project and am at the point where all the riveting is done.
>Throughout the process, my wife has been very supportive of me working on it
>by myself. I did get some help from a friend on bucking the horizontial
>stab. Nevertheless, I believe a QB is very doable without assistance and I'm
>guessing a standard kit would be less "solo" friendly.
>
>Keith Vasey
>Seattle
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of C P
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Building solo
>
>
>Hi,
>
>I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
>notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
>pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
>get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
>I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
>schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
>slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
>solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
>help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
>buck for myself if that is possible...
>
>cheers,
>Chuck
>RV grin installed in August '01
>
>
>__________________________________
>Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
>http://companion.yahoo.com/
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi, does anyone have plans for a primary glider from the 50's or 60's ?
Thanks,
Howdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Building solo |
Chuck,
I don't think you are going to build any plane solo, pulled or smashed rivets.
At some point your going to need a hand moving things or something. However
there is an answer, join a local EAA chapter and make some friends. Your not
going need help riveting all the time just an hand once in a while. When I rivited
my wing top skins on I had everything ready and has a buddy come by. We
did both wing in about 3 hours. Also it does not take an airplane nut to rivet,
you could train a ape to run a rivet gun in about 5 minutes.
Go to a meeting and make some friends, Just don't let them talk you into an officer
position until your done building.
Alan Kritzman
RV-8 115 hours
EAA Chapter 33 Vice President
In a message dated 12/4/2003 10:29:46 AM Eastern Standard Time, C P
writes:
>
>Hi,
>
>I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
>notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
>pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
>get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
>I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
>schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
>slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
>solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
>help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
>buck for myself if that is possible...
>
>cheers,
>Chuck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
> Actually you need to restrict the airflow OUT of the heat
> muff. I used a piece of duct tape (temporary fix) over 25%
> the hole through the fire wall. Slows the air down through
> the heat muff so it has a chance to heat up.
>
Shouldn't matter where the flow is restricted, just so that it is.
However, probably better to restrict the inlet, since these things leak
a bit, and it is better to leak air before the heater than after it
(from a heater efficiency point of view).
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 422 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net> |
While rebuilding the engine on my first RV6, I acquired the name of a
company that would buy cores. I didn't need the starter or generator (went
to
a lightweight starter and alternator. This company was in Okla. I believe,
but I
can't for the life of me, find a record of it or who it was. I'm now in the
process
of rebuilding an 0-360 for my second RV project and have a low-time starter
I
would like to replace (too heavy) and another alternator that I don't need
(24 volt).
Anybody know of a company/individual that is willing to buy cores?
Thanks...
Dave Mader
1/2 way through 2nd 6 project
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
"aeroelectric-list"
| Subject: | Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
This is going to both the Aeroelectric and RV-lists, in hopes of increasing
probability of someone being able to help with this issue.
I want to put cockpit audio into my video camera when doing test flying to
get pictures of instruments & audio comments I make - should greatly reduce
"head down in cockpit" time taking notes and greatly increase amount of
instrument reading data collected.
I went to Radio Shack and bought a Y adapter (p/n 274-892) with single male
plug that goes into the "audio out" plug on instrument panel. The Y adapter
has two female holes (jacks?) into which the headset audio plug goes and
also a 6' long extension cord with 1/4 male plug that goes into other hole
of Y adapter, with its other end (1/8 male) plugged into video camera's
audio jack.
When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is
distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be compatible with
video recorder.
- Had same problem in F-100 30 years ago when trying to record
air-to-air combat audio. Now I remember why my Avionics guys put a small
(1" or less) centertap "audio transformer" into a little box (adapter) that
cut the signal amplitude in half - worked fine.
Options:
1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small centertapped "audio output
transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on the
1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient,
strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to the
end of the ???
-- I can't even visualize what I have to connect. Looks like the
raw (too big) audio signal would have to go into one end of the winding that
is NOT center-tapped and then have the other end of that winding go ____???.
Then solder the other end of cord (that goes into the video camera) to
center tap (which should have 1/2 audo amplitude of that coming into this
transformer-adapter).
2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to 75
ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat
fat cable housing. Problem: It has two U connectors on one end that
obviously go onto two screws for antenna input; other end looks like a
center conductor TV cable end. That is a 4 to 1 change of ohms (300 to 75
or vice versa) - is it done with a transformer? If so, I could have a
neater adapter by modifying that gadget to have a 1/4" male plug on one end
and a 1/4" female jack on other: I'd then plug it into the Y adapter, then
plug the 6' extension cord (unmodified in this option) into it and run the
extension cord to the video camera.
- It is a $5 part and I'd need add the 1/4" plug on one end and a 1/4
inch jack on the other end.
- Looks hard to do.
If I can have some help figuring how to wire the audio transformer, then
just cutting into the extension cord (it must have two conductors in it) I'd
probably run conductor #1 into side of transformer without center-tap and
connect other cut end of conductor #1 to other end of that transformer. I'd
probably connect one end of conductor #2 to 1 end of the center-tapped side
and the other end of conductor #2 to the center tap.
- After all that, I could just wrap the transformer wires in the cut
area with electrical tape - or pot with RTV or Shoe Goo, etc.
- Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1?
The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded
cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs.
Appreciate any tips.
David Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
Try ...
42-2152
6.5' Attenuating Dubbing Cord
$3.99
... FEATURES: Connects earphone jack from radio, cassette or CD to
recorder's input or mic jack 1/8" phone plug on both ends Length
6-1/2-feet
Radio Shack
42-2152
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Carter
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2003 5:33 PM
> To: RV-list; aeroelectric-list
> Subject: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
>
>
>[SNIP]
>
> When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is
> distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be
> compatible with
> video recorder.
> Appreciate any tips.
>
> David Carter
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
See below:
David Carter wrote:
>Options:
>1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small center tapped "audio output
>transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on the
>1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient,
>strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to the
>end of the ???
>
If you want to do this, and assuming that the signal level is
approximately twice what you need, you would connect the audio output
across the two outside winding taps (the two ends) and the audio input
across the center tap and the outside tap that has the ground/common
wire of the input audio. More specifically, cut into your extension
cord (which I am assuming is a shielded audio cable). Connect the
outside conductor (the shield wire) to one of the outside taps of the
transformer. Connect the inside conductor coming from the audio out to
the opposite outside tap and the inside conductor from the audio into
the video camera to the center tap. Insulate and seal with goop (or
whatever) and you are done.
>2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to 75
>ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat
>fat cable housing.
>
This won't work at all. The impedances specified are measured at TV
signal frequencies (100s of MHz). The transformer would look like a
dead short at audio frequencies.
> - Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1?
>The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded
>cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs.
>
If you have an ohmmeter (recommended) you could just measure, but see above.
If I were doing this, I wouldn't bother with the transformer. I would
just use a resistor or a potentiometer (start with a 10K pot) in series
with the video camera input. That is, if you cut the cable as above,
just connect each end of the center conductor to each end of the
resistor (or connect the audio output center conductor to one end of the
pot and the shield to the other end and the video camera center
conductor to the center tap of the pot with the shield to the other
shield). If you use the pot, just turn it to whatever setting gives
you good results. If you turn the pot all the way one way you have
essentially the same situation as if it wasn't there, if you turn it all
the way the other way, you will get no output - somewhere in between you
will get the output you need.
If you have other questions or if this is not clear, ask away...
Dick Tasker, 90573
Fuselage, finishing kit has arrived!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
I'll answer my own e-mail question to both the Aeroelec & RV-lists re how to
wire the "audio out" transformer:
If I remember correctly, there will be two wires in my extension cord - one
connected to tip of plug and other to body of plug.
- Cut the ext cord and, working with cut end still connected to the
1/4" plug that goes into Y adapter - solder both wires to the
non-center-tapped side of transformer.
- Now, take the other cut end of ext cord and connect its two wires to
the other side of the transformer - one wire to an end, other wire to the
center tap. Now the audio signal going into the video camera will be 1/2 as
high an amplitude as before.
Sound correct?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: AeroElectric-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "David Carter"
>
> This is going to both the Aeroelectric and RV-lists, in hopes of
increasing
> probability of someone being able to help with this issue.
>
> I want to put cockpit audio into my video camera when doing test flying to
> get pictures of instruments & audio comments I make - should greatly
reduce
> "head down in cockpit" time taking notes and greatly increase amount of
> instrument reading data collected.
>
> I went to Radio Shack and bought a Y adapter (p/n 274-892) with single
male
> plug that goes into the "audio out" plug on instrument panel. The Y
adapter
> has two female holes (jacks?) into which the headset audio plug goes and
> also a 6' long extension cord with 1/4 male plug that goes into other hole
> of Y adapter, with its other end (1/8 male) plugged into video camera's
> audio jack.
>
> When I replay cockpit recordings, the audio of the video camera is
> distorted - amplitude too high coming out of intercom to be compatible
with
> video recorder.
> - Had same problem in F-100 30 years ago when trying to record
> air-to-air combat audio. Now I remember why my Avionics guys put a small
> (1" or less) centertap "audio transformer" into a little box (adapter)
that
> cut the signal amplitude in half - worked fine.
>
> Options:
> 1. I can do the 1973 version: Buy a small centertapped "audio output
> transformer" (RS p/n 273-1380: 1000 ohms and 8 ohms with center tap on
the
> 1000 ohm side?), then cut my 6' RS extension cord somewhere convenient,
> strip the cut ends and solder end(s) coming from aircraft audio jack to
the
> end of the ???
> -- I can't even visualize what I have to connect. Looks like
the
> raw (too big) audio signal would have to go into one end of the winding
that
> is NOT center-tapped and then have the other end of that winding go
____???.
> Then solder the other end of cord (that goes into the video camera) to
> center tap (which should have 1/2 audo amplitude of that coming into this
> transformer-adapter).
>
> 2. While shopping at Radio Shack today, I saw a TV thing: "300 ohm to
75
> ohm matching adapter". I'm assuming it has a transformer inside the neat
> fat cable housing. Problem: It has two U connectors on one end that
> obviously go onto two screws for antenna input; other end looks like a
> center conductor TV cable end. That is a 4 to 1 change of ohms (300 to 75
> or vice versa) - is it done with a transformer? If so, I could have a
> neater adapter by modifying that gadget to have a 1/4" male plug on one
end
> and a 1/4" female jack on other: I'd then plug it into the Y adapter,
then
> plug the 6' extension cord (unmodified in this option) into it and run the
> extension cord to the video camera.
> - It is a $5 part and I'd need add the 1/4" plug on one end and a 1/4
> inch jack on the other end.
> - Looks hard to do.
>
> If I can have some help figuring how to wire the audio transformer, then
> just cutting into the extension cord (it must have two conductors in it)
I'd
> probably run conductor #1 into side of transformer without center-tap and
> connect other cut end of conductor #1 to other end of that transformer.
I'd
> probably connect one end of conductor #2 to 1 end of the center-tapped
side
> and the other end of conductor #2 to the center tap.
> - After all that, I could just wrap the transformer wires in the cut
> area with electrical tape - or pot with RTV or Shoe Goo, etc.
> - Which conductor in the above narrative/guess would be conductor #1?
> The one that connects to the tip or body of the plug? These are molded
> cable ends so I can't unscrew to see wire attachments/colors to the plugs.
>
> Appreciate any tips.
>
> David Carter
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera |
Sounds like the desire "simple"/"elegant" solution - no cutting and
soldering.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Boyd Braem" <bcbraem(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cockpit "Audio out" to videocamera
>
> Dave--
>
> What I did was get a "lapel" mike from RS and ran it in under one of
> the David Clark headsets (earcups)--so that anything over the radio or
> intercom would be recorded--good S/N and the headset blocked a lot of
> the the engine noise out. So, you could talk into your mike and
> narrate the filming, as needed. Works great as long as you don't get a
> "chatty" Controller on Flight Following, yeah, that'll be the
> day--wouldn't you like to tell one, just once--"Shut the f*ck up!"?
>
> Boyd.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Hoffman" <choffman9(at)cinci.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Building solo |
I concur with this. While many places you certainly CAN do yourself. It is
much easier and has the potential for less risk of error if you have a
helping hand. I have the fortune of having many builders in the Cincinnati
area and several have come over to help when I asked. We end up swapping
time for those "two people are better than one" times. I found two people
were helpful on the tank rib riveting , leading edge ribs to spar, wing
skins and a couple other places. This was a slow build wing of course.
Actually I like sharing time with other people. It's nice to go over
especially and help someone who is a little further along. I'm not sure you
can live anywhere in the country where there aren't some other builders
around. I didn't know any of these folks until I started and now many I
count as friends. Even flew up to Oshkosh with another builder who I met on
a project visit. Just got back tonight from helping someone on the tail of
their fuselage. Unfortunately we talked more than worked but I promised to
go back next week too (He had a Harley in his garage so I was a little
distracted).
Curt Hoffman
RV-9A wings done for now- working on tail
Quick build fuselage now in basement
Piper Cherokee N5320W
1974 TR6
Soon to be Harley Road King Classic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Building solo
>
> Hi Chuck,
>
> Yes you will have some tasks such as the hard to reach rivets that do
> require assistance. The old saw " two heads are better than one" still
> applies ( the pun is gratis) g-}
>
> There are so many builders out there, that unless you are way ...---...out
> in the boonies it should not be difficult to get assistance as needed.
Tell
> the list where geographically you plan to build and my guess is someone
will
> be in range to help. Some guys will do anything for an excuse to fly
> somewhere and be helpful.
> A lunch and a beer or two and Bobs your uncle. Caution!! more than a few
> beers and he might wind up being your long lost son!! ~~Hic! {[:)
> If you are in a remote area it might take more planning but it is done by
> people all over the world. The local shop class instructor might have in
> mind someone with the right skills.
>
> If you reside in North America, the EAA in the US or the RAA in Canada are
> good sources of information and assistance etc.
>
> As the wings and much of the fuse are built the Q-build kits do reduce the
> helper required time but some assistance is still needed.
> Careful assembly order planning can reduce the need for a helper to a
degree
> similar to or at least close to the Q-build requirements.
> Every bit of information you cold imagine is in the RV-List archives.
Where
> to, how to, why to It takes a while to get onto how to ask the right
> questions but it is all there.
>
> I think you will find the RV group just as helpful as any other group that
> start out to build a project and wind up sharing a passion. The friends
met
> along the way will add that something extra that cannot be explained.
>
> Happy building, whatever apssion you choose,
>
>
> Jim in Kelowna
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "C P" <yankeerv10(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Building solo
>
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > I've been thinking of building an RV. I am held up by one
> > notion, that is it is hard to build a driven rivet (versus
> > pulled ala Zenith models) kit solo. My lovely wife is not one to
> > get her hands dirty. I have no airplane nut friends in the area
> > I can rely on to come buck rivets; especially on my wacky
> > schedule. How difficult is it to build an RV 7 (matched hole,
> > slow build) solo? Would a QB take care of all the hard to do
> > solo riveting? How often do you actually need another person's
> > help? If it matters, I'm tall with long arms to reach around and
> > buck for myself if that is possible...
> >
> > cheers,
> > Chuck
> > RV grin installed in August '01
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Free Pop-Up Blocker - Get it now
> > http://companion.yahoo.com/
> >
> >
>
>
November 24, 2003 - December 04, 2003
RV-Archive.digest.vol-oo