RV-Archive.digest.vol-os
January 04, 2004 - January 12, 2004
>Chris Good,
>West Bend, WI
>RV-6A flying 650 hrs.
>
>
It should only be larger for about 1/4 inch as it comes through the
flywheel. This is to index the flywheel so that the timing marks will be
correct.. After passing through the flywheel they should all be about
the same size which should allow you to rotate it ....
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | bag 603 identification |
Can any one help me identify the parts bag that comes with the tip-up
canopy brace kit? My RV-6A kit is old enough that it didn't include the
canopy brace, so I ordered it a few months back. I believe it was bag
603. There is no bag 603 in my list for the original kit, but I do have
a bag 603 and I'm trying to verify that it is the one that came with the
canopy brace.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Whirlwind 151-series Propeller Installation |
The 3-blade WhirlWind 151-series propeller costs:
$6,900 - prop
$1,275 - Jihostroj governor $8,475 plus $250 shipping to IL from El
Cajon, CA
$ 300 - custom paint colors
Photos on Photoshare at:
<http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kenbrooks@charter.net.01.03.2004/index.
html>
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/kenbrooks@charter.net.01.03.2004/index.h
tml
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
Wiring and Plumbing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [rv8list] Seat heat....the sequel |
Hi Terry
I am working with Abby Erdmann, Flightline Interiors LLC, for an
interior for my RV8. She is very interested in pursuing a seat heat
option. Some of the questions I raised here were a result of me talking
with Abby to find a good solution.
As for the cushion, a cushion to raise the seat could just as easy be
designed to go UNDER the heated seat, to raise the heated seat, so that
should not be an issue.
As for pricing, I would go for about $100 per seat too. I found pricing
to vary, if pricing was available, between about 100 to 250 per seat.
Abby's info is:
Flightline Interiors LLC
Abby Erdmann, President
Phone: 262-679-5934
email: erdmannb(at)execpc.com
there are some prices on http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/intprice.html.
Abby is using my RV8 as well as some others to come up with a seat set
for the RV8. She does really nice work and is very responsive to
questions, suggestions and feedback.
There are some pictures on a RV9A Abby did recently at
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/interior.html
Gert
Terry Watson wrote:
> Gert,
>
> Please put me on your list as interested in electric chairs for my 8A.
> Having seen the range of prices, I think I might balk at anything over $100
> per seat.
>
> It occurs to me that one possible but expensive solution to the problem of
> some passengers needing a seat cushion to get the proper seating height
> might be to put heat in a removable cushion too.
>
> Does anyone know if any of the people who do custom upholstery for RV's
> install seat heaters?
>
> Terry
> 8A #80729 wiring
> Seattle
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Gert [mailto:gert(at)execpc.com]
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 10:49 AM
> To: rv8list(at)egroups.com; rv-list
> Cc: Erdmann's
> Subject: [rv8list] Seat heat....the sequel
>
> Hi Folks
>
> Thanks to all who have pointed me to places to find seat heat.
>
> I have sent out requests for quotes as not many places actually
> displayed pricing for their seat heat, some went as far as to state that
> only their rep's are allowed to install and hence those are the only
> folks they will sell to. same held true for heating pads from Car
> dealerships.
>
>
> Here is the next question to ponder, what would you be willing to pay
> for a electric seat heater for your Passenger. It seems pricing may vary
> as far as 100 to 250 per seat, for the near same system. (anybody has a
> good place, local to you, who had reasonable pricing??)
>
> If it were easy to install, would you be interested in doing it
> yourself?? trying to see if there is enough interest to facilitate a
> group buy or something like that.
>
> Oh Yeah....are there any 24 volt RV's flying??
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
> --
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>
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is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob n' Lu Olds" <oldsfolks(at)aol.com> |
I flew our RV-4 off our 1100' grass strip the first flight. I went to a friends
longer(2300')grass strip for the first few landings and all went well without
any special break-in for the brakes. You shouldn't overheat them before they
have a chance to temper the pads,a few landings should do that. It usually doesn't
take much braking for the RV, if you slow it down for landing.
My opinion only.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Hi Pete,
I am interested in your means of pre-oiling and have a couple of
questions:
- When you mention a Home Depot pressure pump do you mean a pump type
garden sprayer or some other type of pressure pump?
- What is the pre-oiler orifice on the engine? I suppose the location
may be different on an O-320 but what is the generic opening? I have
heard of using the oil pressure opening on the engine.
Thanks.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A myriad of finishing details
ptjohn(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> I've used a pressure pump from Home Depot a couple times and it works great
-- and it only costs a fraction of the Aircraft Spruce pre-oiler. All you do
is pour the oil in, pump it up, plug it in, and go off and do something else
for a while. I've used it on an O-235 engine and the wand fitting fits very nicely
into the pre-oiler orifice. You'd have to check on different engines and
possibly do a little mode to get it to fit.
> Pete
> N266PJ (a 1/2 scale Corsair -- about to pick up an RV-8 kit)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
I've checked for abrasion marks against the side panel and fuselage and don't
see any evidence of rubbing.
Walt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ryan gottlieb" <gottliebmk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | new member introduction |
Hello, I am a new member. My name is Ryan Gottlieb. I am in DurhamNC and hope to
buy the RV 10 kit when I can afford the time, space and money. Are any of you
in the NC triangle area?
Ryan
Ryan Gottlieb
Gottlieb Dental Laboratory
5132 Kenwood Road
Durham, NC 27712
(919) 471-6420
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and yourself.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
I have had flap motor problems several times. Usually they just refuse to go
down. I land with no flaps ... sometime later they start working again.
So far the motor has not quit completely.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
188 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: F-794A lower horizontal stabilizer/fuselage fairing |
>
>
attach this fairing to the fuselage. The plans call for countersinking the
longeron for # 6 screws and dimpling the fairing. Lookslike the countersink
will go almost all the way thru longeron which would leave little room for
the 6/32 threads.Bob Thaxton, RV-7QB, Indiana
>
>
> I thought there had to be a better way and my solution was to simply bond
the fairings in place with good ol proseal. This provides the slickest
means possible of attaching the fairings,
I don't understand how you inspect that area. Rebond every annual?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer. |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
Listers,
While doing some riveting on my -10 rudder I've run in to a situation that
I've not seen before. I'm seeing a crack on the side of the shop head of
many of my AN470AD4-x rivets. Please see the photo at
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/SqueezedAN470AD4-5.jpg .
The situation:
- This rivet is from the rudder spar web.
- It's an AN470AD4-5
- It was squeezed using a pneumatic rivet squeezer with a 3" yoke.
-- The flat die used to form the shop head was ground so as to be at a
slight angle (vs perfectly perpendicular to the shop head). This
compensates for the "spring" of the 3" yoke when squeezing #4 rivets. -
The crack appears not to continue thru the center of the shop head
-- it APPEARS to only involve the outer layer of the shop head.
- There is no crack in the factory head.
- When I drive the rivets with my rivet gun I don't see this shop head
cracking phenomena. - I didn't see this phenomena while building my -6,
but I used only a hand squeezer and rivet gun on that plane.
- Is this shop head crack common when a pneumatic squeezer is used?
- Is it anything to worry about?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 600 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - 600 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Stafford" <dstafford98(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Flap motor failure |
Jerry,
Yep, I had to clean the flap motor twice in 150 hours. I sure would like
to
know why this happens to some and not others.
David Stafford
-6 flying
=========================================
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Flap motor failure
Listers...
Recently we've repaired the electric flap motor in our RV6a twice in 30
hours. Upon searching the archives I see others have had the problem,
consisting
of
goop accumulating on the brushes. I've asked the manufacturer of the
motor
about it and they are "unaware of any problem", and suggested I just
"continue
what you're doing to fix it". I guess this means disassembly every 30
hours or
so. Both times it has failed the flaps were in the up position, and we
were
close to home, luckily. The first time, it did give a bit of warning
with
intermittent flap operation, the second time it just plain quit.
I would like to ask others who have experience with this problem to
weigh
in, either on this board or by email, so I can give them a better idea
of the
scope of the problem. Thanks to all.
Jerry Cochran
-6a flying
-6a building
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Re: FAB-360 Airbox RV6-A |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
> List: I am running into a clearance problem with the back of my
> airbox being to close to the nose gear? What have other builders done?
> In any case it appears I will need to modify the air filter base to
> fit around the drain in my carburetor......correct?
> I have a 0360-A1A and any help would be greatly
> appreciated.
> Tom in Ohio
>
I had the same problem. Had to cut a pretty good sized notch out of the
bottom rear edge of the FAB to clear the nose gear. Then I had to enlarge
the notch (twice) to keep the nose gear when the gear from hitting the FAB
when the nose gear flexes during operation.
Tim
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 600 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)QCBC.ORG> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer. |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
Get a fresh supply of rivets. How is the head marked?
Cy Galley, TC - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair, Oshkosh
Editor, EAA Safety Programs
cgalley(at)qcbc.org or experimenter(at)eaa.org
Always looking for articles for the Experimenter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer.
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
>
> Listers,
>
> While doing some riveting on my -10 rudder I've run in to a situation that
> I've not seen before. I'm seeing a crack on the side of the shop head of
> many of my AN470AD4-x rivets. Please see the photo at
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/SqueezedAN470AD4-5.jpg .
>
> The situation:
> - This rivet is from the rudder spar web.
> - It's an AN470AD4-5
> - It was squeezed using a pneumatic rivet squeezer with a 3" yoke.
> -- The flat die used to form the shop head was ground so as to be at a
> slight angle (vs perfectly perpendicular to the shop head). This
> compensates for the "spring" of the 3" yoke when squeezing #4 rivets. -
> The crack appears not to continue thru the center of the shop head
> -- it APPEARS to only involve the outer layer of the shop head.
> - There is no crack in the factory head.
> - When I drive the rivets with my rivet gun I don't see this shop head
> cracking phenomena. - I didn't see this phenomena while building my -6,
> but I used only a hand squeezer and rivet gun on that plane.
>
> - Is this shop head crack common when a pneumatic squeezer is used?
> - Is it anything to worry about?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
>
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 600 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD - 600 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | manual engine pre-oiler |
You are talking of pre-oiling before first engine start? Is it not
satisfactory to take out a plug from each cylinder and spin the engine
until the oil pressure builds?
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Dudley [mailto:rhdudley(at)att.net]
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2004 5:18 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: manual engine pre-oiler
>
>
>
> Hi Pete,
>
> I am interested in your means of pre-oiling and have a couple of
> questions:
>
> - When you mention a Home Depot pressure pump do you mean a
> pump type garden sprayer or some other type of pressure pump?
>
> - What is the pre-oiler orifice on the engine? I suppose the
> location may be different on an O-320 but what is the generic
> opening? I have heard of using the oil pressure opening on
> the engine.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
> -6A myriad of finishing details
>
> ptjohn(at)comcast.net wrote:
> >
> >
> > I've used a pressure pump from Home Depot a couple times and it
> > works great -- and it only costs a fraction of the Aircraft Spruce
> > pre-oiler. All you do is pour the oil in, pump it up, plug
> it in, and
> > go off and do something else for a while. I've used it on an O-235
> > engine and the wand fitting fits very nicely into the pre-oiler
> > orifice. You'd have to check on different engines and
> possibly do a
> > little mode to get it to fit. Pete N266PJ (a 1/2 scale Corsair --
> > about to pick up an RV-8 kit)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer. |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
I think maybe you need to set those "improved" rivet sets and try the "std"
items and see what your results are. That's where I'd start in trying to
isolate the cause of your cracked shop heads. I use a pneumatic squeezer
with air pressure 110psi and never crack any rivets.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer.
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
>
> Listers,
>
> While doing some riveting on my -10 rudder I've run in to a situation that
> I've not seen before. I'm seeing a crack on the side of the shop head of
> many of my AN470AD4-x rivets. Please see the photo at
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/SqueezedAN470AD4-5.jpg .
>
> The situation:
> - This rivet is from the rudder spar web.
> - It's an AN470AD4-5
> - It was squeezed using a pneumatic rivet squeezer with a 3" yoke.
> -- The flat die used to form the shop head was ground so as to be at a
> slight angle (vs perfectly perpendicular to the shop head). This
> compensates for the "spring" of the 3" yoke when squeezing #4 rivets. -
> The crack appears not to continue thru the center of the shop head
> -- it APPEARS to only involve the outer layer of the shop head.
> - There is no crack in the factory head.
> - When I drive the rivets with my rivet gun I don't see this shop head
> cracking phenomena. - I didn't see this phenomena while building my -6,
> but I used only a hand squeezer and rivet gun on that plane.
>
> - Is this shop head crack common when a pneumatic squeezer is used?
> - Is it anything to worry about?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Tim Lewis
>
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 600 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD - 600 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric seat heat |
My shop does seat heater installation for new car dealers so I added a set of
heaters to my RV6. I carry Rosta, Check Corp, and Katskin. There are some
with Carbon fiber heating elements and some with resistance wire. Those with
one temperature usually don't have a control module (box) but the ones that do
are small and easily hidden and are very reliable. Some units are custom fit
and others are universal and have to be trimmed to the particular application.
Switches are round, rectangular or square all with the seat heater logo.
Most are fused with 6.5 amp fuses but I can check the specs to see what they
draw. I can offer them to anyone on the list at reduced pricing. Contact me off
list if I can answer any questions.
Larry Gagnon N6LG 39.8 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | CHT #4 and oil cooler placement... |
Mark,
We hCHT been there with our RV-8A and 200hp IO-360A1B6. Our history is as
follows:
Initially installed the Positech oil cooler recommeded by Vans, on the Left
rear baffle per Van's recommendations. We were consistently running high oil
temps. Positech replaced the original oil cooler with there improved model
(at no charge). The new oil cooler eliminated the air damming that was due
to the min clearence on the cooling lines in the original oil cooler.
But being experimentors were made a bracket for the oil cooler and mounted
on the right side of the firewall and made a plenum which we attached a 3"
SCAT tube to the new left rear baffle.
We still had high oil temps - In working with Positech (Brain really
supported our effort to get lower oil temps) he suggested that we were
getting to much air resistance from the SCAT tube (due to length and bends).
We relocated the improved oil cooler to the left rear baffle and have not
had a problem with high oil temps since.
We do see Cyl # 3's CHT about 5-10 degrees Cyl higher than Cyls 1 & 2 .
Cyl # 4 on the other hand is always about 10-20 degrees Cel cooler than the
other cyls. A number of RV-8 builders, with the IO-360, have said they
experience the same situation. The consensus is the due the oil cool
directly behind #4 it is getting better cooling.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: czechsix(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: CHT #4 and oil cooler placement...
>Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 15:55:25 -0600
>
>
>Guys,
>
>For those of you flying, do you find that the CHT on #4 (left aft
>cylinder) tends to be the hottest? I've got an -8A with O-360-A1A if
>that makes a difference, but I'd assume it's the same trend for any
>Lycoming installation....
>
>My reason for asking is that I'm pondering the placement of my oil
>cooler. I plan to hang it on the firewall or engine mount and feed it
>via a SCAT off the back baffle. In looking at the "normal" location of
>mounting the cooler on the left side just behind cylinder #4, it seems to
>me that it would exacerbate any cooling problems here because it would
>allow some air to escape through the cooler that would otherwise go down
>behind #4 and cool the critical exhaust port area.
>
>I know the cooler won't fit on the RH side aft baffle, but since I'm not
>mounting it on the baffle I could take the air off the RH side if it made
>any difference in keeping the #4 CHT's more in line with the other jugs.
>
>Thanks as always,
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D FWF stuff....
>
>
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed
providers now. https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
Mine failed at 8 hours and again at 29 hours. I was told some motors had too
much grease in them and it was working its way up to the brush area and
contaminating it. I broke a brush the second time trying to clean it but Van's
gave me one to replace it. I've got another 10 hours on and so far so good.
Larry Gagnon RV6 N6LG 39 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electric seat heat |
Guys, I'm just not understanding all this focus on heated seats. Seems to me
that they add cost and complexity when it's something you're only going to
use occasionally. I think a MUCH better solution is to choose any of the
products from Gerbings, namely their motorcycle products, and be done with
it. That way the vest, jacket, gloves, or seatpad can be used for other
things.
I would submit that you or your passengers would be much warmer wearing a
heated jacket liner ($199, http://www.gerbing.com/pages/clothing/jl.html)
than merely sitting on a heated pad. If heated seats is what you want
Gerbings also offers those, called "heated stadium cusion".
Anyway, check www.gerbings.com.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, with 12v power socket in front and back for whatever electrical
appliance you want.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Larry:
Well, that's an issue too, but no. I was thinking about a device
to pressurize the oil system before each and every engine start. That
is what the Oilamatic product I referred to is intended to do.
Larry Bowen wrote:
>
>You are talking of pre-oiling before first engine start? Is it not
>satisfactory to take out a plug from each cylinder and spin the engine
>until the oil pressure builds?
>
>-
>Larry Bowen
>Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>http://BowenAero.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Imfairings(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fairings, which ones |
Jeff, your name sure is familiar. We may have done business before. My
intersection fairings are based on Van's pressure recovery wheel pants and gear
leg fairings. For a look at my wed site see www.fairings-etc.com
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
In a message dated 1/4/04 11:41:15 PM, sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes:
Larry:
Well, that's an issue too, but no. I was thinking about a device
to pressurize the oil system before each and every engine start. That
is what the Oilamatic product I referred to is intended to do.
>>
I used an Accusump unit many years ago in a race car. It was an aluminum
cylinder with a valve on the end plumbed into the oil system. You could fill it
with oil (Quart) and pressurize the cylinder with air so that on initial start
up you would have oil flowing before the engine ever turned over, After the
engine was running the oil pressure would repressurize the cylinder and before
you shut down the engine you could shut off the valve to have it available
later for restarting. Probably available at a speed shop. Worked great on the
race car but I don't know if it's necessary on our engines? Mine gets
pressure instantly on start up.
Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
I'm curious...among those who have experienced flap motor failure, how many
times did you extend/retract your flaps before the first failure occurred?
Estimate if possible.
I haven't flown yet, but I've had my flaps up/down easily 50-100 times. Is
it the in-flight air load on the flaps that plays a part, do you think?
Is there a direction in which they always fail, like they always fail when
trying to extend flaps?
Just curious...sorry to bombard everybody with questions,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Larygagnon(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap motor failure
>
> Mine failed at 8 hours and again at 29 hours. I was told some motors had
too
> much grease in them and it was working its way up to the brush area and
> contaminating it. I broke a brush the second time trying to clean it but
Van's
> gave me one to replace it. I've got another 10 hours on and so far so
good.
>
> Larry Gagnon RV6 N6LG 39 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: F-794A lower horizontal stabilizer/fuselage fairing |
One should be able to take off the fibreglass fairing from the top of the
stab and inspect that way. There should be ample access to see everything of
importance looking from the top with a mirror, etc.
Sounds like a slick idea to me - but too late now for my -6A.
Jim Oke
RV-6A C-GKGZ
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: F-794A lower horizontal stabilizer/fuselage
fairing
>
>
> >
> >
> attach this fairing to the fuselage. The plans call for countersinking the
> longeron for # 6 screws and dimpling the fairing. Lookslike the
countersink
> will go almost all the way thru longeron which would leave little room for
> the 6/32 threads.Bob Thaxton, RV-7QB, Indiana
> >
> >
> > I thought there had to be a better way and my solution was to simply
bond
> the fairings in place with good ol proseal. This provides the slickest
> means possible of attaching the fairings,
>
> I don't understand how you inspect that area. Rebond every annual?
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | light weight propellers |
Hi All,
I had an interesting conversation with an engineer at Lycoming recently about
the non-counterweighted crankshaft Lycoming O-360 engine.
According to the Lycoming engineer, a light weight propeller can cause the
harmonic vibrations of the engine to be reduced into the normal RPM operating
range of the engine.
What was interesting was that the problems occur in the accessory case gears
in the engine. The engineer said that the harmonic in the accessory case
gears can cause the magneto(s) to fail and the fuel pump to fail.
The Lycoming engineer said that Hartzell, Sensenich and MT Propellers have
been approved by Lycoming. Therefore, they do not have this harmonic problem in
the normal RPM operating range.
The engineer also said that they normally test the manufactures propeller on
their engine when one of the Lycoming distributors is planning to sell that
propeller with their Lycoming engine.
The Lycoming engineer I talked to did not know what an Aerocomposite or
Whirlwind propeller was. He indicated that they had not been tested by Lycoming.
The conversation trigger two items for me.
1.) A previous posting by someone with a fixed pitch propeller on a Lyc. 360
who had magneto failures and had installed an electronic ignition. It would
be worthwhile for this person to call Lycoming and have a talk with them,
himself.
2.) I briefly flew my RV-3 with the Lycoming O-290 with an underpitched fixed
pitch propeller at 3200 RPM. I say briefly because the wet compass started
rotating at about 60 RPM. Now I know where the high frequency vibration
originated. The accessory case gears. Very bad.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Noel & Yoshie Simmons" <noel(at)blueskyaviation.net> |
| Subject: | Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer. |
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
1 thought probably far off but, from the roughness of the face you may want
to polish your bucking bars.
Noel
RV-10
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Lewis
Subject: RV-List: Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic
squeezer. tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
Listers,
While doing some riveting on my -10 rudder I've run in to a situation that
I've not seen before. I'm seeing a crack on the side of the shop head of
many of my AN470AD4-x rivets. Please see the photo at
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a/SqueezedAN470AD4-5.jpg .
The situation:
- This rivet is from the rudder spar web.
- It's an AN470AD4-5
- It was squeezed using a pneumatic rivet squeezer with a 3" yoke.
-- The flat die used to form the shop head was ground so as to be at a
slight angle (vs perfectly perpendicular to the shop head). This
compensates for the "spring" of the 3" yoke when squeezing #4 rivets. -
The crack appears not to continue thru the center of the shop head
-- it APPEARS to only involve the outer layer of the shop head.
- There is no crack in the factory head.
- When I drive the rivets with my rivet gun I don't see this shop head
cracking phenomena. - I didn't see this phenomena while building my -6,
but I used only a hand squeezer and rivet gun on that plane.
- Is this shop head crack common when a pneumatic squeezer is used?
- Is it anything to worry about?
Thanks,
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD -- 600 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - 600 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB-360 Airbox RV6-A tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06 |
Thanks for the help on this Tim. Several builders have done the same thing
as it appears to be a common problem not covered in the instructions.
How far away from the nose gear did you find worked? Depth of the
notch?
Thanks, Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: FAB-360 Airbox RV6-A tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
>
>
> > List: I am running into a clearance problem with the back of my
> > airbox being to close to the nose gear? What have other builders done?
> > In any case it appears I will need to modify the air filter base to
> > fit around the drain in my carburetor......correct?
> > I have a 0360-A1A and any help would be greatly
> > appreciated.
> > Tom in Ohio
> >
>
> I had the same problem. Had to cut a pretty good sized notch out of the
> bottom rear edge of the FAB to clear the nose gear. Then I had to enlarge
> the notch (twice) to keep the nose gear when the gear from hitting the
FAB
> when the nose gear flexes during operation.
>
> Tim
> --
> Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
> RV-6A N47TD -- 600 hrs
> RV-10 #40059 under construction
> http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron Villery" <scudrunr1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric seat heat |
Maybe you haven't been in a car with leather seats in the winter. Seats can
get very cold during the winter months especially if they are leather.
Because the seat warms before the engine you rely on the seats to keep you
warm until the engine temp gets into operating range. Some of us are just
addicted to it.
Aaron Villery
F1 Rocket SN138
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electric seat heat
>
> Guys, I'm just not understanding all this focus on heated seats. Seems to
me
> that they add cost and complexity when it's something you're only going to
> use occasionally. I think a MUCH better solution is to choose any of the
> products from Gerbings, namely their motorcycle products, and be done with
> it. That way the vest, jacket, gloves, or seatpad can be used for other
> things.
>
> I would submit that you or your passengers would be much warmer wearing a
> heated jacket liner ($199, http://www.gerbing.com/pages/clothing/jl.html)
> than merely sitting on a heated pad. If heated seats is what you want
> Gerbings also offers those, called "heated stadium cusion".
>
> Anyway, check www.gerbings.com.
>
> Randy Lervold
> RV-8, with 12v power socket in front and back for whatever electrical
> appliance you want.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JSannizzar(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
Dan,
Sounds like you may be questioning your motor before it ever leaves the
ground. I am in the planning stages right now. Getting tools and shop ready for
emp
kit (-7) as we type.
I like Piper style flaps. With all this talk of flap motor failure, I have
been thinking of going "the other way".
Question: Would you reconsider electric flaps in lieu of manual if you had to
do it all over again?
John Sannizzaro, KPYM
N357JS
Planning stages
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin(at)mannon.org |
| Subject: | Al Haynes needs our help |
Al Haynes, who was the Captain of United flight 232, has had an impact on
many of us in aviation. Now, his daughter needs our help. Here is a link
to the story on ANN:
http://www.aero-news.net/news/commair.cfm?ContentBlockID=ba9cc480-07c7-4bcb-
916d-785e7b56d347&Dynamic=1
For those who don't know about this flight or Capt. Haynes, here are a
couple of links:
http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182969-1.html
http://www.panix.com/~jac/aviation/haynes.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kevin(at)mannon.org |
| Subject: | Al Haynes needs our help |
Al Haynes, who was the Captain of United flight 232, has had an impact on
many of us in aviation. Now, his daughter needs our help. Here is a link
to the story on ANN:
http://www.aero-news.net/news/commair.cfm?ContentBlockID=ba9cc480-07c7-4bcb-
916d-785e7b56d347&Dynamic=1
For those who don't know about this flight or Capt. Haynes, here are a
couple of links:
http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182969-1.html
http://www.panix.com/~jac/aviation/haynes.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flap Motor Failure |
In my case, at about 30 hours flying time, the flaps were intermittent. I
first noticed it one day when, after extending the flaps to half on base, I
clicked the switch for full flaps on final. Nothing happened. When I landed the
flaps worked perfectly. I removed the left side panel to check for any travel
obstructions and found none. I also checked the switch and all wiring from the
switch to the motor. Everything checked out ok, so I continued to fly. I also
continued to have problems, sometimes the flaps would not extend at all,
sometimes I could only get half flaps, and sometimes they worked perfectly.
Now, at 54 hours, I lined up on downwind and as I turned to base I clicked
the switch for half flaps and got nothing. They just refused to move. My guess
is that one of the brush springs has popped loose again, like the last time.
Man, what I wouldn't give for manual flaps!
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
John,
While not addressed to us - I would like to provide our recommendation.
Go with the electric flags - they reduce your workload.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A - 230 hrs - KWST
>From: JSannizzar(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap motor failure
>Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 06:50:05 EST
>
>
>Dan,
>
>Sounds like you may be questioning your motor before it ever leaves the
>ground. I am in the planning stages right now. Getting tools and shop ready
>for emp
>kit (-7) as we type.
>
>I like Piper style flaps. With all this talk of flap motor failure, I have
>been thinking of going "the other way".
>
>Question: Would you reconsider electric flaps in lieu of manual if you had
>to
>do it all over again?
>
>John Sannizzaro, KPYM
>N357JS
>Planning stages
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Electric Seat Heat |
Another approach is a $35 12vdc electric blanket like:
http://www.skilimited.com/xq/asp/clickpath./base_no.VE-240/str_base_no.VE-24
0,/header_title.Keyword+Search/page_name.search/keyword_results.asp/search_t
ype.blanket/ShowImages.yes/sq.0/cont.1/intPgNo.1/qx/product.htm
You only carry it when the weather is cold and you are carrying a passenger.
Otherwise, no changes to your wt/bal or system complexity.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
How about - Bob Knockells - Aero Electric
>From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: , ,
>,
>Subject: RV-List: Ground block
>Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2004 23:25:02 -0700
>
>
>I was preparing to order a ground block from B&C and noticed they are out
>of stock till "late January." Anyone have another source for these?
>
>Darwin N. Barrie
>Chandler AZ
>
>
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
http://wine.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Andersen" <tandersen(at)triad.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Seat Heater sources |
Hi Gert,
Portable seat heaters are sold to snowmobilers to lay on their snowmobile seats
and plug into 12v power outlets. I'm going to say check with JC Whitney or
snowmobile accessory stores on the net. I've seen units for around $100. I found
one for motorcycles at $159.
http://quietridge.com/pics.html and for two seats http://quietridge.com/hotrider.html
I've disassembled the heated seats on my 99 Subaru Forester (to modify their feel)
and can say that the heating element is just a piece of felt with very fine
wires (probably Nichrome) threaded through the felt, and laid just underneath
the seat cover itself. For the cheapest heated seats, I'd say go to a junkyard
and look for Subaru's as lots of them came with the winter weather package.
Usually there were wiper de-icer grids on the windshield just under the wipers
that were the most visible part of the winter weather package. Also heated
mirrors were included. On the Forester the seat switches were in the center
console. If you could find one you could get the switches too.
Tom Andersen
Greensboro NC
Grumman Cheetah N22BA
Would like to buy RV-6A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Altoq <altoq(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Here is a link you might want to consider
http://www.accusump.com/acc_products/acc_turboiler.htm
John D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: manual engine pre-oiler
>
> Larry:
> Well, that's an issue too, but no. I was thinking about a device
> to pressurize the oil system before each and every engine start. That
> is what the Oilamatic product I referred to is intended to do.
>
> Larry Bowen wrote:
>
> >
> >You are talking of pre-oiling before first engine start? Is it not
> >satisfactory to take out a plug from each cylinder and spin the engine
> >until the oil pressure builds?
> >
> >-
> >Larry Bowen
> >Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> >http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Electric seat heat |
In a message dated 1/4/2004 11:38:39 PM Eastern Standard Time, randy@rv-8.com writes:
> Guys, I'm just not understanding all this focus on heated seats. Seems to me
> that they add cost and complexity when it's something
> you're only going to
> use occasionally.
Trust me; if you sit on TemperFoam seats, you will want and/or use heated seats
every cold day you enter the cockpit. I don't have heated seats (yet) and my
temperfoam seats are like a cement park bench until my butt warms them sufficiently.
Also, until I sink down a bit into the warmed cushions, I have to keep
my head cocked to one side a bit so I don't bump my LightSpeeds on the canopy.
You wouldn't think a 3 inch thick seat could be so much trouble, but they are
nice when they finally reach normal operating temperature :-)
-Bill
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Al Haynes needs our help |
Many don't know this about Al Haynes but his other passion in life is Little
League Baseball. I too share that passion as a Little League Baseball
umpire. Each year we have a "road trip" to San Bernardino CA for the Western
Region LL tournament. One of the highlights is seeing Al Haynes there
volunteering for what ever he is needed for. He is one of the nicest people
you could ever meet.
Hopefully Little League will have a full staff today in their western
offices and I plan to see if they are doing anything toward a fund raiser.
This is truly a deserving cause. After, he is one of our own.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: <kevin(at)mannon.org>
Subject: RV-List: Al Haynes needs our help
>
> Al Haynes, who was the Captain of United flight 232, has had an impact on
> many of us in aviation. Now, his daughter needs our help. Here is a link
> to the story on ANN:
>
http://www.aero-news.net/news/commair.cfm?ContentBlockID=ba9cc480-07c7-4bcb-
> 916d-785e7b56d347&Dynamic=1
>
> For those who don't know about this flight or Capt. Haynes, here are a
> couple of links:
> http://www.avweb.com/news/profiles/182969-1.html
> http://www.panix.com/~jac/aviation/haynes.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
| Subject: | Upper and lower Gearleg intersection fairings |
Listers,
Where can I find RV4 upper and lower gearleg intersection fairings?
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
I suspect a supplier change or different vendor. My motor has several
thousand cycles with no problems. It was delivered around 1995 or 1996. I
never returned it for a swap as offered by Vans. I always use flaps for
landing and takeoff. 1300 hours and 2300 landings logged.
> From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2004 21:17:34 -0800
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap motor failure
>
>
> I'm curious...among those who have experienced flap motor failure, how many
> times did you extend/retract your flaps before the first failure occurred?
> Estimate if possible.
>
> I haven't flown yet, but I've had my flaps up/down easily 50-100 times. Is
> it the in-flight air load on the flaps that plays a part, do you think?
>
> Is there a direction in which they always fail, like they always fail when
> trying to extend flaps?
>
> Just curious...sorry to bombard everybody with questions,
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Larygagnon(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap motor failure
>
>
>>
>> Mine failed at 8 hours and again at 29 hours. I was told some motors had
> too
>> much grease in them and it was working its way up to the brush area and
>> contaminating it. I broke a brush the second time trying to clean it but
> Van's
>> gave me one to replace it. I've got another 10 hours on and so far so
> good.
>>
>> Larry Gagnon RV6 N6LG 39 hrs
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
I have to disagree. Electric flaps will INCREASE the workload. Once you
push the switch you have to then hold it for some time and then look an
an indicator (or out the side window) to see where they are. With manual
you just pull the handle and you know exactly where the flaps are set
without ever taking your eyes off your flying. On short final I've got
more important things to do.
And of course I'll never have a bad motor.
Dave
>Go with the electric flags - they reduce your workload.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flap motor failure-Now manual flaps |
Ahh, you new kids with the snap together kits are forgetting your roots;-)
If you really want to go manual, just order the RV-6/A parts. Van's will
still supply them. The electric vs manual flap debate used to flare up as
often as tip-up vs slider. You might still find someone who wants to convert
to electric that will swap parts.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> John, electric flaps are now standard on the kits. In thinking about it
> though, the geometry of the stock flap attach weldment just may offer an
> alternative to those wanting to go manual. If you wanted to use a center
> actuator arm you would have to redesign the flap motor cover, side covers
> and maybe the aft vertical support. You spend some time, anyway,
> fabricating these parts. Once again, you may spend a little more
> time than
> might think fabricating the required elements of the system within the
> existing structure rather than from a black sheet of paper.
>
> If you want some pics of what the 7 supports and tunnel covers
> look like in
> this area, let me know off list and I'll post a couple.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | WhirlWind 151 Prop - was light weight propellers |
In my recent post about my WhirlWind 151-series 3-blade prop, I forgot to
mention that in accordance with a strong recommendation from Bart Lalonde at
AeroSport Power, my I0-360-B1B does have the counterbalanced crank.
As Jim Ayers posted concerns recently about light weight propellers and
accessory case vibration issues, I, too, was concerned about the same and
therefore decided to shell out the extra $2500 for the counterbalanced crank
(OUCH!). I think that should take care of the problem. For people on a
tighter budget, you can't beat the (I)O-360-A1A with the Hartzell 2-blade.
Just my opinion.
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FOR SALE : RV-6 / 6a kit |
| From: | "Kuebler, Scott" <skuebler(at)CANNONDESIGN.COM> |
RV-6 / 6a kit for sale.
Empennage: Complete except for fiberglass tips. Includes electric elevator trim
kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Marhyde primer.
Wings & Phlogiston Spar: Both skeletons assembled. All skins ready for final
riveting. Both tanks are complete and sealed. Flaps and ailerons complete, but
not fitted. Includes electric aileron trim kit. All parts are alodined and
primed with Deft epoxy primer (Mil-P-23377G).
Both kits are the pre-punched versions purchased in 1997 & 1998 by myself. Construction
is excellent. Preview plans and Orndorff videos are included for both
kits.
Price: $4750
If all items were purchased separately the price would be more than $6500 for unassembled
kits. The tools are not for sale; I will be keeping them to guarantee
that I will build another RV in the near future!
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
716-695-1987 home
716-510-0318 cell
skuebler(at)cannondesign.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Garry Legare <versadek(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
Dan, for your own piece of mind you could just take it apart and look
for grease at the armature end. It's fairly easy just take your time and
use a piece of safety wire to hold the brushes in place. I think the
problem relates to an overzealous use of grease when originally assembled.
Casper
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>I'm curious...among those who have experienced flap motor failure, how many
>times did you extend/retract your flaps before the first failure occurred?
>Estimate if possible.
>
>I haven't flown yet, but I've had my flaps up/down easily 50-100 times. Is
>it the in-flight air load on the flaps that plays a part, do you think?
>
>Is there a direction in which they always fail, like they always fail when
>trying to extend flaps?
>
>Just curious...sorry to bombard everybody with questions,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <Larygagnon(at)aol.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Flap motor failure
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Mine failed at 8 hours and again at 29 hours. I was told some motors had
>>
>>
>too
>
>
>>much grease in them and it was working its way up to the brush area and
>>contaminating it. I broke a brush the second time trying to clean it but
>>
>>
>Van's
>
>
>>gave me one to replace it. I've got another 10 hours on and so far so
>>
>>
>good.
>
>
>>Larry Gagnon RV6 N6LG 39 hrs
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: >Re:heated seat maker |
In the archives I found :
http://www.smarthome.com/9290.html
for $30.
Bob Olds A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
RV-4 , N1191X , Flying Now
Charleston, Arkansas
"Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glenn Brasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Al Haynes Daughter |
http://www.transplants.org/FMPro
Here is a direct link to the transplant site, and a way to also make a donation
on line.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Upper and lower Gearleg intersection fairings |
Scott,
Try Team rocket
Chuck
>From: "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Upper and lower Gearleg intersection fairings
>Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 10:25:20 -0500
>
>
>Listers,
>
>Where can I find RV4 upper and lower gearleg intersection fairings?
>
>Scott
>
>
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and
yourself. http://special.msn.com/msnbc/workingmom.armx
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JDaniel343(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flap Motor Failure |
Mine first acted up at about 50 hours. I looked things over but could not find
any faults. continued to fly till the 90 hour mark. I did experience intermittent
problems. A good hit on the flap mount usually would fix the problem.
At 90 Hours I took the motor apart. It was fairly dirty, don't remember finding
grease. I cleaned the armature and brushes, reassembled and haven't had anymore
problems in the last 100 hours.
I would still go with elec. flaps again just to gain the room.
John Danielson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
I haven't noticed any additional workload when deploying the flaps. I hold
the switch down and count to 5 for half flaps and to 10 for full flaps. A
glance at marks on the end of the aileron are all that is needed to verify the
position. 85hrs and no problems with the motor.
Cash Copeland
RV6 N46FC
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 1/5/2004 8:04:16 AM Pacific Standard Time, bj034(at)lafn.org
writes:
I have to disagree. Electric flaps will INCREASE the workload. Once you
push the switch you have to then hold it for some time and then look an
an indicator (or out the side window) to see where they are. With manual
you just pull the handle and you know exactly where the flaps are set
without ever taking your eyes off your flying. On short final I've got
more important things to do.
And of course I'll never have a bad motor.
Dave
>Go with the electric flags - they reduce your workload.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
I have ordered a new 360 engine from Aero Sport in Canada. I have to make a
decision whether to use a carb or the AFP fuel injection. I am looking for
information and opinions about the benefits of AFP fuel injection over the
standard carburetor. For those of you that converted from a carb to fuel injection
was there any noticeable increase in performance? Were there any major
difficulties converting the existing fuel system? Can the carb FAB assy. be used
on
the F.I. unit? If not, does the F.I. FAB line up with inlet on the cowl?
I have a really strong O-360 A1D with about 500hrs since OH powering the
airplane now. This engine will be for sale after the new one is installed.
Cash Copeland
RV6 N46FC 85hrs
Hayward, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Flap motor failure |
> I have to disagree. Electric flaps will INCREASE the
> workload. Once you
> push the switch you have to then hold it for some time and
> then look an
> an indicator (or out the side window) to see where they are.
It depends how one's plane is designed. I put the flap switch where I
can access it without removing my hand from the throttle. Also, I put
in full flaps when on downwind. The only time I glance out the window
is on takeoff climbs, to insure the flaps have come completely up. I
really would not agree about the increased workload. The only partial
flap position is for takeoffs.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Flap motor failure-Now manual flaps |
Were manual flaps ever available on the RV8? I love the
electric trim on my club's Piper, and I don't have any
trouble with the manual flaps, but I can't quite see
where the lever would go in an RV8 cockpit.
Mickey
>Ahh, you new kids with the snap together kits are forgetting your roots;-)
>If you really want to go manual, just order the RV-6/A parts. Van's will
>still supply them. The electric vs manual flap debate used to flare up as
>often as tip-up vs slider. You might still find someone who wants to convert
>to electric that will swap parts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Flap motor failure-Now manual flaps |
Test reply
Bruce
www.glasair.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Colt Seavers" <rv7maker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
Cash,
Why are you putting in the new motor 1500 hrs before tbo?
Ross Schlotthauer
RV-7 finishing
>From: JusCash(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Carb Vs Fuel Injection
>Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2004 14:29:39 EST
>
>
>I have ordered a new 360 engine from Aero Sport in Canada. I have to make
>a
>decision whether to use a carb or the AFP fuel injection. I am looking for
>information and opinions about the benefits of AFP fuel injection over the
>standard carburetor. For those of you that converted from a carb to fuel
>injection
>was there any noticeable increase in performance? Were there any major
>difficulties converting the existing fuel system? Can the carb FAB assy.
>be used on
>the F.I. unit? If not, does the F.I. FAB line up with inlet on the cowl?
>I have a really strong O-360 A1D with about 500hrs since OH powering the
>airplane now. This engine will be for sale after the new one is installed.
>
>Cash Copeland
>RV6 N46FC 85hrs
>Hayward, Ca
>
>
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
http://wine.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jack eckdahl" <eckdahl(at)dellmail.com> |
I have a new Sensenich fixed pitch prop for my RV9A. I also received the prop extension
that is included in the prop installation. There are 6 prop bushings
on the engine prop flange. On my engine the bushings appear to be installed in
various sizes. My question is this: Should all the bushings that came with
the engine be the same length? Two of them are almost flush with the engine
prop flange, the other 4 protrude into the back of the prop extension.
If you have installed the sensenich fixed pitch prop and are familar with this
set up I would appreciate any information that you may be able to provide. Jack
#90508
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flap Motor Failure (more) |
Listers...
I'd like to add a bit of info to my original posting and answer some of the
questions that came up. We bought our RV6a with about 85 hrs on it, so don't
know if the flap problem happened before that. In the next 50 hrs, we had two
failures 30 hrs apart. Both times the cause was gunk between the brushes and
commutator, preventing contact. Once cleaned, worked perfectly, so had nothing
to
do with air loads, rubbing on cover sides, etc. Question is, where did the
goop come from? The factory engineer at www.MotionSystem.com said this:
<>
Someone else on the list mentioned possible oil from the gearbox, but ours
had no evidence of any on the motor housing or armature where it would have had
to run down to the brushes. It looks to me more like copper residue from the
brushes. I was very careful to solder wires back together last two times, but
am thinking of converting to fast-on terms... :) Would speed up the repair
process a lot...
I notice the the debate of Elec vs. manual flaps has been reignited, so might
as well toss in my .02. I would not mind a bit having manual even if no probs
with the motor. About the only redeeming merit I see in electric is that it's
"cool" to control them that way. Manuals can be put up or down quicker, never
have to fuss with a bad motor, never have to look out the side or do a
"count". How about on a go-around? I find it delaying and distracting to raise
electric flaps in the case of a botched landing. When I flew with Mike Seager,
he
raised the flaps on the touch and goes, for safety and convenience. Maybe I'll
call Van's and see what a manual kit would cost.
Jerry Cochran
In cold & wintry Oregon
btw... At a gas station today, 18f outside guy just moved here from MN
complaining about weather... "I moved here to get away from this S___!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jack eckdahl" <eckdahl(at)dellmail.com> |
Please disregard my previous post regarding different sized prop bushings. I found
the answer (I think). It is Lycoming Service Instruction 1098G. And as many
of you probably already know the engine does come with different sized bushings.
Bushing size also depends on the thickness of the flange. Jack #90508.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ptjohn(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Richard
The pump is sold for use in spraying cleaner on a deck. I got mine at Home Depot,
but you can get them at any home improvement store. I can't recall the exact
price, but it's certainly not over $45 or so.
On an O-235, just remove the set screw with a hex wrench (it's at the front of
the engine just to the left of center). In the case of my particular pump,
when you remove the sprayer head from the plastic wand, the wand will screw directly
into the pre-oil orifice. Again, depending on the model of pump and the
engine being pre-oiled, you may have to do a little modification to get it to
fit.
After you have put the oil in the pump, the pressure is built up by pumping.
Then set the pump on top of the engine (to help the flow), tape or clamp down
the trigger and you're spraying oil into the top of the engine where it can
drain throughout the case down to the sump.
Hope that helps. Next time I'm up at the airport I'll take a pic of it and post
it. It's very simple.
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <ptjohn(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Then the process I'm talking about wouldn't be what you're looking for. I'm talking
about pre-oiling an engine before it's first start.
Pete J.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
I talked to Bart at Aero Sport. He recommended the Bendix F.I. with the
Airflow Performance pump/filter assy. He said with the Bendix he provides a
spacer for the airbox so that it doesn't have to be modified. With Airflow
Performance a new airbox would have to be fabricated and the cowl inlet opening
might
have to be modified. We discussed at length the pros and cons of carbs and
F.I. I have decided to go with the carburetor for simplicity and cost. But I
still might change my mind.
Cash Copeland
RV6 N46FC
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 1/5/2004 2:32:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
crabaut(at)coalinga.com writes:
Cash,
I use to fly an O-320 D1A on my RV-4. I went with an IO-320 (from
Ly-Con) and am very happy with the change from carb to injection. Besides
no more sputter when negative & no more carb icing, the injection fuel
system wasn't that hard to install. Go with AFP for the pump & related
stuff, you won't be disappointed. They have quality/tested systems that
fit.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Greenlee Kwik-Cycle Dies |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
All,
I am purchasing a die for my Greenlee crimpers for the insulated color electrical
terminals (red, yellow, blue). Greenlee sells one specific to "AMP Ultrafast
style" (45570) and one applicable for all others (45509).
Question is this...what is an "AMP Ultrafast" connector or do I care? Search of
the archives produced nothing.
Thanks,
Scott Haskins
RV7A Wings
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
Good call! Go with Bendix. The AFP injection definitely requires quite a
bit of modification both in terms of a custom airbox, and also in terms of
control cable routing.
The Bendix will be pretty much plug and play with Van's firewall forward
kit, which comes with the necessary cable bulkhead brackets, bellcrank, etc.
I went with AFP injection, and while my control cable setup is long since
done, I'm still working on the filtered airbox and ram air. It has added a
significant amount of time, effort, and money to this project. I have no
regrets...I'm just trying to be honest about how much more complex it
becomes when you stray from "stock."
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <JusCash(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Vs Fuel Injection
>
> I talked to Bart at Aero Sport. He recommended the Bendix F.I. with the
> Airflow Performance pump/filter assy. He said with the Bendix he provides
a
> spacer for the airbox so that it doesn't have to be modified. With
Airflow
> Performance a new airbox would have to be fabricated and the cowl inlet
opening might
> have to be modified. We discussed at length the pros and cons of carbs
and
> F.I. I have decided to go with the carburetor for simplicity and cost.
But I
> still might change my mind.
>
> Cash Copeland
> RV6 N46FC
> Hayward, Ca
>
> In a message dated 1/5/2004 2:32:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> crabaut(at)coalinga.com writes:
>
> Cash,
>
> I use to fly an O-320 D1A on my RV-4. I went with an IO-320 (from
> Ly-Con) and am very happy with the change from carb to injection. Besides
> no more sputter when negative & no more carb icing, the injection fuel
> system wasn't that hard to install. Go with AFP for the pump & related
> stuff, you won't be disappointed. They have quality/tested systems that
> fit.
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | trip to honduras |
Tom,
If you are flying an experimental aircraft you MUST have written approval
from EACH country you intend to fly over or into prior to departing the US.
The only exception is the Bahamas. Check your aircraft's operating
limitations. It should say something along these lines.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
>From: "tom coggin" <motniggo(at)localnet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: trip to honduras
>Date: Sat, 3 Jan 2004 18:28:45 -0800
>
>
>I am hoping to fly to the Bay Islands of Honduras by way of Key West,
>Florida then to Cancun, Mexico for fuel only and then to Roatan,
>Honduras.Does Honduras require prior written notice? Does Guatemala require
>prior written notice to overfly along the coast? Will Mexico require
>customs, insurance and fees just for a fuel stop? If so, I might have the
>range to make it to Belize City. I know I can get this info by joining
>(paying $39.00) Baja Bush Pilots. Thanks for the free info.
>
>Tom Coggin
>
>
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
http://wine.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
> Good call! Go with Bendix. The AFP injection definitely
> requires quite a bit of modification both in terms of a
> custom airbox, and also in terms of control cable routing.
I won't go into any pro/cons of carb/FI, but what modifications on the
airbox are you talking about? I have the O-360, and the airbox from
Van's (made for AFP) fit without any modifications.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com> |
, ,
,
""
,
| Subject: | I made a donation & I'm registering as a Marrow donor |
Okay Guys (and Gals),
Donating was the EASY part (you can do it too, it will only hurt when my wife
aka "my banker" finds out). I also did some soul searching, cuz' it's gonna
take a lot of time & traveling, but I decided I'm gonna be tested as a donor.
I just registered and now I wait to get an appointment to be tested. I gotta
go up to Stanford Medical Center (it's the closest donor center to me) and
I'll let you all know how it goes.
I hope some other folks will consider taking the plunge, either donating $
or becoming a blood/marrow donor or both... ya'll know it's for good/deserving
people.
check out
http://www.marrow.org/HELP/join_the_registry.html
or
www.transplants.org
Take Care and Take Air my friends,
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Edward W. O Connor" <edwardoconnor(at)mac.com> |
I am trying to find a source for custom length push pull cables for a throttle
quadrant for an RV-8 which has a 2.5 inch throw vice the 3 3/8 throw I have found
in ACS and Wicks and which are not as large of diameter as the ones sold by
Vans. I had some custom cables made at a cable store which used Felsted F.A.S.T.
cable hardware with a 2 inch throw and they do not work on my set up. Every
web site I went to lists control ends with either 2 or 3 inch throws but
not 2.5 inch which is what works prefect for my quadrant. I bought a salvage
cable at a fly market which was a 2.5 inch throw and had a diameter of .25 inch
sheath but there is no manufacture lable anywhere. The ones Van's sells are
made by Cablecraft I believe and it has a 2.25 inch throw but has a diameter
of .35 inch. The Felsted cable is .31 inch diameter. The cable made by Aircraft
Spruce is .25 inch diameter but is not available in 2.25 or 2.50 inch throw.
Only the 3 3/8 throw. Any one know a manufacture I can contact.
Ed OConnor/RV-8/N366RV/Panama City FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
Guys....I think Alex is right here, and a few of you may have it backwards.
When I was installing my Bendix System, Van's only had Control Cable
Brackets, FAB's etc.. for the AFP system. I ended up having a machine shop
build me a spacer for the Servo, and Van's made a custom cable bracket for
the servo, which I had to cut and weld to make work. I had three made and
sold them all to other prospective Bendix installers. On top of that, I had
to modify the FAB box on the side to let the mixture arm clear the FAB. Now
I understand Van's carries a better bracket for cables, but believe me, it's
still a pain with the mixture arm being where it's at on the Bendix Servo.
Here's the deal. The AFP servos have both the mixture and throttle arms on
the same side, and it makes for (or at least it used to) much easier cable
routing.
Van's had designed the stuff for the AFP since at the time (couple years
ago) it was a whole lot cheaper than going with Bendix stuff. I used the
Bendix becuase it was what came with my low time 360, but after looking at
dozens of FI installations while doing mine, I wished I would have had the
AFP servo instead of the Bendix. FYI, I'm about due an overhaul on my
servo, and you'll be interested to know that Don Rivera overhauls the AFP
servos cheaper than the Bendix.
Anyway, just making sure everyone is on the right page here, because all
this talk really sounds completely 180 degrees off from what I experienced 2
years ago, but then I'm often quite wrong!
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Peterson
Subject: RE: RV-List: Carb Vs Fuel Injection
> Good call! Go with Bendix. The AFP injection definitely
> requires quite a bit of modification both in terms of a
> custom airbox, and also in terms of control cable routing.
I won't go into any pro/cons of carb/FI, but what modifications on the
airbox are you talking about? I have the O-360, and the airbox from
Van's (made for AFP) fit without any modifications.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
As Scott mentioned, I'm referring to the horizontal induction setup of the
IO-360-A1B6 with the airbox running between the filter in the front left
baffle and the fuel controller inlet.
Apples and oranges...sorry to butt in...but if anybody out there is
considering *horizontal* induction beware of the additional work required to
make AFP injection work.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Carb Vs Fuel Injection
>
> > Good call! Go with Bendix. The AFP injection definitely
> > requires quite a bit of modification both in terms of a
> > custom airbox, and also in terms of control cable routing.
>
>
> I won't go into any pro/cons of carb/FI, but what modifications on the
> airbox are you talking about? I have the O-360, and the airbox from
> Van's (made for AFP) fit without any modifications.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
> www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
AFP...horizontal application...what additional work?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Slick magneto mounting clamp |
I need two mounting clamps. Where can these be bought or is it best to
fabricate them? I believe the official Lycoming p/n is 75965 for the 4370
mag.
Indiana Larry, RV7 Tip-up TMX-O-360 ACS2002 Dynon CNS430 Digitrak
On Finish Kit and FWF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Pete,
Thanks for the information on the pump. My interest is pre-oiling on the
first start up of a new engine. Just cranking it with plugs out may be
adequate, but I wanted to consider using something else before cranking.
I'll be interested in your photo.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
ptjohn(at)comcast.net wrote:
>
>
> Richard
> The pump is sold for use in spraying cleaner on a deck. I got mine at Home
Depot, but you can get them at any home improvement store. I can't recall the
exact price, but it's certainly not over $45 or so.
> On an O-235, just remove the set screw with a hex wrench (it's at the front
of the engine just to the left of center). In the case of my particular pump,
when you remove the sprayer head from the plastic wand, the wand will screw
directly into the pre-oil orifice. Again, depending on the model of pump and
the engine being pre-oiled, you may have to do a little modification to get it
to fit.
> After you have put the oil in the pump, the pressure is built up by pumping.
Then set the pump on top of the engine (to help the flow), tape or clamp down
the trigger and you're spraying oil into the top of the engine where it can
drain throughout the case down to the sump.
> Hope that helps. Next time I'm up at the airport I'll take a pic of it and
post it. It's very simple.
> Pete
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
Custom control cable routing, custom fabricated bulkheads for the engine
side of the cables. Custom airbox. Cowl modifications because no matter
what airbox approach you use, you're not gonna get it under a stock Van's
IO-360 cowl.
We're fortunate that the FM-200 can be mounted at any angle, because the way
it came installed from AeroSport Power it just wasn't going to work without
some sort of "complicated" bellcrank to reverse the throttle throw. I
rotated it 90 counterclockwise (facing the engine from the front) and that
opened the door to non-reversed throttle & mixture throws.
Still working on the airbox, should have that molded up within a month or
two (caught up with other crap now). I "salvaged" the top end from Van's
IO-360 FAB kit, and just chopped off the bottom that normally mates with a
Bendix controller.
To complicate things, I'm going with ram air, so my cowl needs to be
modified/finished.
The story is way too long to go into here, so check out my web site if you
want the full scoop... http://www.rvproject.com You'll have to hunt and
peck for firewall forward pages, but it's all there.
Lots of work, lots of work. If I went with Bendix injection I might have
been done by now...but what fun would THAT be?! 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <PittsS1(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Carb Vs Fuel Injection
>
> AFP...horizontal application...what additional work?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
>
> I am trying to find a source for custom length push pull
> cables for a throttle quadrant for an RV-8 which has a 2.5
> inch throw vice the 3 3/8 throw I have found in ACS and Wicks
> and which are not as large of diameter as the ones sold by
> Vans.
Try calling:
ACS 520-855-8613 CUSTOM CABLES
This ACS is not Aircraft Spruce, but they make the various vernier, etc,
cables that Van's and Aircraft Spruce sells. They make custom cables,
price and delivery is unbelievable. They are in AZ. I got my control
cables from them about 3 years ago.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kai Schumann <kai92117(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
We've got one on our restored 64 1/2 mustang
convertable. works great to eliminate cold start wear,
but will add a few pounds to the front end of your
plane. Check out this one:
www.keith-eickert.com/oil_preoiler.htm It's much nicer
than the clunker we bought, and much lighter to boot.
Kai
Still deciding on what to build
--- Richard Dudley wrote:
>
>
> Pete,
> Thanks for the information on the pump. My interest
> is pre-oiling on the
> first start up of a new engine. Just cranking it
> with plugs out may be
> adequate, but I wanted to consider using something
> else before cranking.
> I'll be interested in your photo.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
>
> ptjohn(at)comcast.net wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > Richard
> > The pump is sold for use in spraying cleaner on
> a deck. I got mine at Home Depot, but you can get
> them at any home improvement store. I can't recall
> the exact price, but it's certainly not over $45 or
> so.
> > On an O-235, just remove the set screw with a
> hex wrench (it's at the front of the engine just to
> the left of center). In the case of my particular
> pump, when you remove the sprayer head from the
> plastic wand, the wand will screw directly into the
> pre-oil orifice. Again, depending on the model of
> pump and the engine being pre-oiled, you may have to
> do a little modification to get it to fit.
> > After you have put the oil in the pump, the
> pressure is built up by pumping. Then set the pump
> on top of the engine (to help the flow), tape or
> clamp down the trigger and you're spraying oil into
> the top of the engine where it can drain throughout
> the case down to the sump.
> > Hope that helps. Next time I'm up at the
> airport I'll take a pic of it and post it. It's
> very simple.
> > Pete
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://search.yahoo.com/top2003
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net> |
| Subject: | Spacers for Bendix System |
If anybody needs one I have three.
Eustace Bowhay--Blind Bay, B.C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
My AFP servo has the throttle on one side and the mixture on the other. The
bracket to hold the cables had to be modified considerably to fit around the
nose gear leg on my 8A, and I haven't mounted the FAB yet, but the cable
routing worked fine. It was the prop control cable that didn't work as
drawn.
My engine with the AFP injection came from Bart in maybe March of last year.
Terry
RV-8A wiring
Seattle
Here's the deal. The AFP servos have both the mixture and throttle arms on
the same side, and it makes for (or at least it used to) much easier cable
routing.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Alex Peterson
Subject: RE: RV-List: Carb Vs Fuel Injection
> Good call! Go with Bendix. The AFP injection definitely
> requires quite a bit of modification both in terms of a
> custom airbox, and also in terms of control cable routing.
I won't go into any pro/cons of carb/FI, but what modifications on the
airbox are you talking about? I have the O-360, and the airbox from
Van's (made for AFP) fit without any modifications.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: light weight propellers |
At 3200 rpm I should imagine all bets were off. IMHO it would be a very
long shot to attribute this to the resonance in the gear case.
What did this engineer have to say about wooden props? Some of these
are surely lighter than the Aerocomposite or Whirlwind propellers.
The issue should really be the inertial mass (or moment of inertia). Is
this is even lower than for a conventional wooden prop? If so then you
would expect to have problems idleing and starting.
Doug Gray
LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
> I had an interesting conversation with an engineer at Lycoming recently about
> the non-counterweighted crankshaft Lycoming O-360 engine.
>
> According to the Lycoming engineer, a light weight propeller can cause the
> harmonic vibrations of the engine to be reduced into the normal RPM operating
> range of the engine.
>
> What was interesting was that the problems occur in the accessory case gears
> in the engine. The engineer said that the harmonic in the accessory case
> gears can cause the magneto(s) to fail and the fuel pump to fail.
>
> The Lycoming engineer said that Hartzell, Sensenich and MT Propellers have
> been approved by Lycoming. Therefore, they do not have this harmonic problem
in
> the normal RPM operating range.
>
> The engineer also said that they normally test the manufactures propeller on
> their engine when one of the Lycoming distributors is planning to sell that
> propeller with their Lycoming engine.
>
> The Lycoming engineer I talked to did not know what an Aerocomposite or
> Whirlwind propeller was. He indicated that they had not been tested by Lycoming.
>
> The conversation trigger two items for me.
> 1.) A previous posting by someone with a fixed pitch propeller on a Lyc. 360
> who had magneto failures and had installed an electronic ignition. It would
> be worthwhile for this person to call Lycoming and have a talk with them,
> himself.
>
> 2.) I briefly flew my RV-3 with the Lycoming O-290 with an underpitched fixed
> pitch propeller at 3200 RPM. I say briefly because the wet compass started
> rotating at about 60 RPM. Now I know where the high frequency vibration
> originated. The accessory case gears. Very bad.
>
> Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:Upper and lower Gearleg intersection fairings |
Scott
I just purchased RV4 upper and lower gearleg intersection fairings from Bob
Snedaker
at Fairings-etc. His web site and phone number follow. Very good looking
product and Bob was very helpful when I had a few questions. I used them with
Van's fiberglass gear leg fairings on my short legged RV4. Don't think you can
go
wrong with his products. Check his website for more fiberglass products for
RV's
bob@fairings-etc.com
Cellular: 623-203-9795
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N924PL (reserved)
RV4 finishing
Bay City, Michigan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marcel Bourgon <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Upper and lower Gearleg intersection fairings |
Scott Brown wrote:
>
>
>Listers,
>
>Where can I find RV4 upper and lower gearleg intersection fairings?
>
>Scott
>
>
>
>
We just found a source. Try fairings-etc.com
marcel in el paso
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
For a first start, I'd ask a couple of questions. How log since the engine
has been run or was reassembled from overhaul? Was some good lubricant
(STP, etc) used on the bearings when reassembled?
In my case, I just spun it up with the plugs out. Watched for oil pressure
after about 5 seconds or less of spinning. Worked good. Now up to 580 hrs
on my overhaul.
I understand your concern. If unable to answer the first questions, keep
pushing to find your answers. looks like a couple of good answers popping
up. I've never preoiled an AC engine, but would imagine it's a matter of
finding the right connection on the accy section and possibly pulling the
plugs on the lifter/cam oil passages. Only problem with this is the
possibility of breaking loose trash and plugging these *very* close
tolerance oil passages in the lifters.
just a few thoughts.
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
>Thanks for the information on the pump. My interest is pre-oiling on the
>first start up of a new engine. Just cranking it with plugs out may be
>adequate, but I wanted to consider using something else before cranking.
>I'll be interested in your photo.
>
>Regards,
>
>Richard Dudley
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed
providers now. https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 2004 Sun 100 Air Race? |
Anyone know if there'll be a 2004 Sun 100 air race? It was questionable
last year, so I heard, due to the sponsors concerns over liability.
A pilot who's glad the world is so much safer due to the diligent, selfless
efforts of lawyers.
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Counterbalanced crank shaft |
From: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net>
Subject: RV-List: WhirlWind 151 Prop - was light weight propellers
---therefore decided to shell out the extra $2500 for the counterbalanced
crank
(OUCH!). ---
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
Ken,
On the Aerosport website, they indicate that all the new engines come with a
balanced crank. Is your counterbalanced crank something different? I just
ordered the IO-360-M1 ( same as the B series except with the horizontal
forward facing Injector) and am wondering if I should call them back.
Steve
RV7QB
MEM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RSamuelson(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fire wall sealant |
Does anyone have experience with "Fire Break 814"? I was thinking of using it
in place of Hi Temp RTV in sealing joints on an RV7A.
Fire Break 814 is a commercial fire and draft sealant, rated at 3000 deg F
for 8 hours.
It's non-toxic, non-corrosive, water clean-up. I got it at my local hardware
store.
Thanks for the help
Roy Samuelson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ryan gottlieb" <gottliebmk(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | side stick conversion? |
has anyone ever converted the center stick to a side stick? I would like to do
this with the RV10(if i ever get one :) I like the center stick, but for long
cross country trips, I would rather have my lap free, and allow my right seat
passenger the luxury of changing positions, or reaching in the back with out hitting
the stick. what are your thoughts? Thanks, Ryan
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Bryan,
Thanks for your comments. The engine is Lycoming new. Not run since
factory test cell about 1-1/2 years ago. I'm interested in best
conditions for first start up.
Richard Dudley
RV_8 Pilot wrote:
>
>
> For a first start, I'd ask a couple of questions. How log since the engine
> has been run or was reassembled from overhaul? Was some good lubricant
> (STP, etc) used on the bearings when reassembled?
>
> In my case, I just spun it up with the plugs out. Watched for oil pressure
> after about 5 seconds or less of spinning. Worked good. Now up to 580 hrs
> on my overhaul.
>
> I understand your concern. If unable to answer the first questions, keep
> pushing to find your answers. looks like a couple of good answers popping
> up. I've never preoiled an AC engine, but would imagine it's a matter of
> finding the right connection on the accy section and possibly pulling the
> plugs on the lifter/cam oil passages. Only problem with this is the
> possibility of breaking loose trash and plugging these *very* close
> tolerance oil passages in the lifters.
>
> just a few thoughts.
>
> Bryan Jones -8
> www.LoneStarSquadron.com
> Houston, Texas
>
> >Thanks for the information on the pump. My interest is pre-oiling on the
> >first start up of a new engine. Just cranking it with plugs out may be
> >adequate, but I wanted to consider using something else before cranking.
> >I'll be interested in your photo.
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Richard Dudley
>
> Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed
> providers now. https://broadband.msn.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Counterbalanced crank shaft |
I'm not Ken, but my ONLY regret about the engine I bought from Aero Sport
Power is that I did not take Bart's advice and get the counterbalanced
crank. Without it, I may not be able to use the Whirlwind prop like Ken
bought. I think they all come with a "balanced" crank, but the
"counterbalanced" costs more.
Terry
RV-8A wiring
Seattle
From: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net>
Subject: RV-List: WhirlWind 151 Prop - was light weight propellers
---therefore decided to shell out the extra $2500 for the counterbalanced
crank
(OUCH!). ---
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
Ken,
On the Aerosport website, they indicate that all the new engines come with a
balanced crank. Is your counterbalanced crank something different? I just
ordered the IO-360-M1 ( same as the B series except with the horizontal
forward facing Injector) and am wondering if I should call them back.
Steve
RV7QB
MEM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Fire wall sealant |
Or you could just get this stuff from Vans.
http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1073362941-424-633
&browse=new&product=cs1900
Mike Nellis
RV-6 Fuselage Skinning N699BM
1947 Stinson 108-2 NC9666K
http://bmnellis.com
*** -----Original Message-----
*** From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
*** [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
*** RSamuelson(at)aol.com
*** Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:59 AM
*** To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
*** Subject: RV-List: Fire wall sealant
***
***
***
*** Does anyone have experience with "Fire Break 814"? I was
*** thinking of using it
*** in place of Hi Temp RTV in sealing joints on an RV7A.
***
*** Fire Break 814 is a commercial fire and draft sealant,
*** rated at 3000 deg F
*** for 8 hours.
*** It's non-toxic, non-corrosive, water clean-up. I got it at
*** my local hardware
*** store.
***
*** Thanks for the help
***
*** Roy Samuelson
***
***
*** =============
*** Matronics Forums.
*** =============
*** =============
*** =============
***
***
***
***
***
***
***
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Yo, Gummo,
I was at APV on New Years day and there was no one around. Someday pop me a
number or something I can find you by.
Lets see, the winds that day were 12kts rwy 07 at AJO, 6kts rwy 26 at
Redlands, and 22kts rwy 18 at APV, all within 30 odd miles of each other, go
figure.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Pflimlin" <pablo(at)phonewave.net> |
, ,
, ,
| Subject: | Re: RV7-List: I made a donation & I'm registering as a Marrow |
donor
In the interest of elimlinating SPAM, what the hell does this msg. got to do
with RV's??
----- Original Message -----
From: "C. Rabaut" <crabaut(at)coalinga.com>
; ;
; ""
;
Subject: RV7-List: I made a donation & I'm registering as a Marrow donor
> --> RV7-List message posted by: "C. Rabaut"
>
> Okay Guys (and Gals),
>
> Donating was the EASY part (you can do it too, it will only hurt when
my wife aka "my banker" finds out). I also did some soul searching, cuz'
it's gonna take a lot of time & traveling, but I decided I'm gonna be tested
as a donor. I just registered and now I wait to get an appointment to be
tested. I gotta go up to Stanford Medical Center (it's the closest donor
center to me) and I'll let you all know how it goes.
>
> I hope some other folks will consider taking the plunge, either
donating $ or becoming a blood/marrow donor or both... ya'll know it's for
good/deserving people.
>
> check out
>
> http://www.marrow.org/HELP/join_the_registry.html
>
> or
> www.transplants.org
>
>
> Take Care and Take Air my friends,
>
> Chuck
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: light weight propellers |
I would like to see more on this...I am going to be running an O-320 with a
3-blade Catto wood prop. I have never heard of any problems related to this
combo. One of my fellow chapter members has an RV-4 that has flown with an
O-320/wood prop for a long long time.
Jim Bower
St. Louis
RV-6A Fuselage
>From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: light weight propellers
>Date: Tue, 06 Jan 2004 18:35:18 +1100
>
>
>At 3200 rpm I should imagine all bets were off. IMHO it would be a very
>long shot to attribute this to the resonance in the gear case.
>
>What did this engineer have to say about wooden props? Some of these
>are surely lighter than the Aerocomposite or Whirlwind propellers.
>
>The issue should really be the inertial mass (or moment of inertia). Is
> this is even lower than for a conventional wooden prop? If so then you
>would expect to have problems idleing and starting.
>
>Doug Gray
>
>LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I had an interesting conversation with an engineer at Lycoming recently
>about
> > the non-counterweighted crankshaft Lycoming O-360 engine.
> >
> > According to the Lycoming engineer, a light weight propeller can cause
>the
> > harmonic vibrations of the engine to be reduced into the normal RPM
>operating
> > range of the engine.
> >
> > What was interesting was that the problems occur in the accessory case
>gears
> > in the engine. The engineer said that the harmonic in the accessory
>case
> > gears can cause the magneto(s) to fail and the fuel pump to fail.
> >
> > The Lycoming engineer said that Hartzell, Sensenich and MT Propellers
>have
> > been approved by Lycoming. Therefore, they do not have this harmonic
>problem in
> > the normal RPM operating range.
> >
> > The engineer also said that they normally test the manufactures
>propeller on
> > their engine when one of the Lycoming distributors is planning to sell
>that
> > propeller with their Lycoming engine.
> >
> > The Lycoming engineer I talked to did not know what an Aerocomposite or
> > Whirlwind propeller was. He indicated that they had not been tested by
>Lycoming.
> >
> > The conversation trigger two items for me.
> > 1.) A previous posting by someone with a fixed pitch propeller on a Lyc.
>360
> > who had magneto failures and had installed an electronic ignition. It
>would
> > be worthwhile for this person to call Lycoming and have a talk with
>them,
> > himself.
> >
> > 2.) I briefly flew my RV-3 with the Lycoming O-290 with an underpitched
>fixed
> > pitch propeller at 3200 RPM. I say briefly because the wet compass
>started
> > rotating at about 60 RPM. Now I know where the high frequency vibration
> > originated. The accessory case gears. Very bad.
> >
> > Jim Ayers
>
>
Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Counterbalanced crank shaft |
Thanks Terry, I will definitely call AeroSport tomorrow.
Steve
RV7QB
MEM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Proprietary AOA flap switch |
Anyone using the Proprietary Systems AOA unit have pictures of their
flap position switch installation?
Jeff Point
RV-6 finishing up, almost there
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mcmahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Proprietary AOA flap switch |
Jeff
Yep,I will try to send ya a pic of what I did (near paint)
John McMahon (rv6 0/360/c/s)
Gallatin.Tn
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>Anyone using the Proprietary Systems AOA unit have pictures of their
>flap position switch installation?
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6 finishing up, almost there
>Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Proprietary AOA flap switch |
I currently have a shot of the setup for my RV7A on my update web site which
includes a flap position sensor on the same bracket.
For those interested, there is also a photo of the connector I used for the
Infinity grip cable.
See http://users.aol.com/n67bt
Bob Trumpfheller
Anyone using the Proprietary Systems AOA unit have pictures of their
flap position switch installation?
Jeff Point
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Proprietary AOA flap switch |
This is mine:
http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=15&pos=0
I've since put some plugs on the switches, but you can get the general
idea.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jeff Point [mailto:jpoint(at)mindspring.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 7:06 PM
> To: RV List
> Subject: RV-List: Proprietary AOA flap switch
>
>
>
> Anyone using the Proprietary Systems AOA unit have pictures of their
> flap position switch installation?
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6 finishing up, almost there
> Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Mcmahon <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Proprietary AOA flap switch |
Jeff
Here ya go !!!
john McMahon
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>Anyone using the Proprietary Systems AOA unit have pictures of their
>flap position switch installation?
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6 finishing up, almost there
>Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Lewis" <timrv6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cracked AN470AD4 rivets when using a pneumatic squeezer. |
rick.conti(at)boeing.com
tests=DATE_IN_FUTURE_03_06
> I think maybe you need to set those "improved" rivet sets and try the
> "std" items and see what your results are. That's where I'd start in
> trying to isolate the cause of your cracked shop heads. I use a
> pneumatic squeezer with air pressure 110psi and never crack any
> rivets.
This turned out to be what was needed. I had "improved" my rivet set
(ground it at slight angle) because I kept getting off-center shop heads on
AN470AD4-x rivets using the pneumatic squeezer. I went back and tried
Fred Kunkel's (clearairtools.com) recommended technique with normal
sets -- the problem seems to have been solved.
Fred's technique: " Try different techniques for squeezing rivets.
When I try to squeeze a rivet very slowly, my personal
experience is that Im more apt to squeeze it off-center. I get
the best results from feathering the set holder to the base of the
rivet shank, ensuring that I am square on the rivet, and then
completing the stroke in one quick movement. Different
techniques may work better for other individuals." (See the
last few pages of
http://www.rvproject.com/SoCalNewsletters/July2003.pdf )
Thanks!
Tim Lewis
--
Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA)
RV-6A N47TD - 600 hrs
RV-10 #40059 under construction
http://www.geocities.com/timrv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net> |
"Chuck Brietigam"
| Subject: | Help with 3 blade Catto Prop on RV3 |
I am ordering a 3 blade Catto prop for my RV3 with 0320 engine. The engine was
a rebuilt by AeroSport with dual E.I. and Air Flow Performance fuel injection.
I'm not sure what to tell Catto in terms of:
1) max performance HP
2) max RPM at say 8000 ft.
3) max airspeed at say 8000ft.
4) other useful info.
in order for him to carve the prop. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Rick Fogerson
finishing wiring
Boise, ID
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Flap motor failure |
I had my flap motor fail at just under 100 hours in my RV-4. I started at
the flap switch and traced the current all the way to the motor. I had to remove
the front seat, carpet, and the front seat floor. Once I determined it was
getting current, I tapped on it a few times and it started working. I cleaned
the motor with electrical degreaser the best I could and it has worked
flawlessly the last 5 hours........
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying with just over 100 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Al Haynes needs our help |
I am currently starting my RV7 fuselage and I am glad word about Al Haynes'
daughter is getting out. You see, I was the controller working the UAL
flight at Sioux City that day when Al Haynes brought it in. You would
not believe where the landing gear hit on the runway before it rolled
over on him. He landed the crippled aircraft on a permanently closed
runway that was crumbling due to years of no maintenance. His gear
touched down just past the numbers. I have pictures taken the day
after and am still amazed at the airmanship displayed that day.
Al is a great guy. He has already lost his wife and son. Now his
daughter is very ill. I contributed (tax deductible) through the
transplants.org website. What is really pulls at your heart...and your
wallet... is all the people on the list that need funds to make the
transplant happen. This site will be a regular stop for me. Here you
know your contribution is going to a specific purpose. I have posted
the story at work, NY Approach Control, and several controllers have
mentioned that they will be contributing even though they do not know
him personally. They recognize he has been and is an ambassador to
all that is right in the aviation world.
Thanks for reading the non-RV post. Back to bending longerons now. :)
Kevin Bachman
N900KB (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: manual engine pre-oiler |
Eastwood Company - www.eastwoodcompany.com - sells these for cars. I'm
sure you could adapt one to a Lycoming or anything else.
Jim Hasper - RV-7 just starting empennage (setting up shop in Franklin,
Tennessee)
(snip)
>I was thinking about a device to pressurize the oil system before each
and every engine start.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: light weight propellers |
The Lycoming 320 engine was not discussed with the Lycoming engineer.
The Lycoming 360 engine with the counterweighted crankshaft was not
discussed, either.
Only the Lycoming 360 engine with the non-counterweighted crankshaft was the
subject of my conversation with Lycoming.
It is this engine that produces an unacceptable load in the 2000 to 2300 RPM
range for most propellers.
From this discussion, the Lycoming engineer addressed what they look for when
they test a propeller on their engine. Still the non-counterweighted
crankshaft 360 engine.
In discussing this engine, he expressed a concern about using a light weight
propeller.
My questions of the Lycoming engineer were very specific to some propeller
performance testing I was going to be doing. I'm sorry if I created some
confusion in passing along what I learned from the Lycoming engineer.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com> |
| Subject: | Seatback adjustment mechanism |
I'll be starting on my fuselage this spring and am wondering if anyone
has seen a redesign of the seat back adjustment mechanism to make it
easier/quicker to adjust. My wife is vertically challenged at 4'10"
while I'm 5'11". We are both pilots, so I'm building things so it can be
flown from either seat easily. The challenge comes when I want to give
someone a ride and need to adjust the seat back to allow for a taller
person.
The piano hinge is very simple but seems likes it might not be user
friendly to change often. I'm open to ideas if anyone has any or seen
any. I have one or two in mind but would like to know what others have
come up with.
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Wings-Flaps)
EAA Chapter 868
www.n523rv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seatback adjustment mechanism |
Hi Matt:
One way to make it easier to accommodate different sized pilots is to have
seat cushions that can be added or removed from the standard cushions. You
can make one for the seat bottom as well as the seat back and then use
whatever combination works.
Regards,
Jeff Orear
RV6A
Panel
Peshtigo, WI
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com>
Subject: RV-List: Seatback adjustment mechanism
>
> I'll be starting on my fuselage this spring and am wondering if anyone
> has seen a redesign of the seat back adjustment mechanism to make it
> easier/quicker to adjust. My wife is vertically challenged at 4'10"
> while I'm 5'11". We are both pilots, so I'm building things so it can be
> flown from either seat easily. The challenge comes when I want to give
> someone a ride and need to adjust the seat back to allow for a taller
> person.
> The piano hinge is very simple but seems likes it might not be user
> friendly to change often. I'm open to ideas if anyone has any or seen
> any. I have one or two in mind but would like to know what others have
> come up with.
>
> Matthew Brandes,
> Van's RV-9A (Wings-Flaps)
> EAA Chapter 868
> www.n523rv.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Decuir <dacure(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
Did anyone who indexed thier prop per skyranch manual, to reduce
vibration, check with Ly-con? just wondering if they still honor
warranties and such in the unlikely event of an "event" that could be
related to balance and indexing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas |
| From: | Jeff Peltier <jeffpeltier(at)BRSparachutes.com> |
On 1/3/04 5:38 PM, "Rob Prior" wrote:
>
> Jeff Peltier wrote:
>>>> Now this is one of the most important reasons I read The List. here's
>>>> an example of something fairly easy to accomplish adding value. whether
>>>> you use a cable reel, or length of nylon cord (carefully!) bound with a
>>>> rubber band and velcro'd to your chute harness, it may still save your skin
>>>> and cost little to nothing.
>
>> Is the skin of your passengers really worth "little to nothing"? They may
>> disagree.
>>
>> Jeff Peltier
>
> In the computer industry, this is called spreading FUD about a product.
> That's Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. You're just casting a doubt on the
> safety of body-worn parachutes over the supposed increased safety of a BRS
> (which hasn't been proven).
>
> It's the same marketing ploy that Cirrus uses to sell their airplanes to the
> spouses of pilots. "This one has it's own parachute to save you from
> accidents." Never mind the fact that it *presumes* an accident will occur,
> and that the pilot *will not* be capable of dealing with it. It takes
> advantage of people who don't understand flying, and who may happen to hold
> some of the pursestrings when choosing to buy an aircraft.
>
> -Rob
>
>
>
>
>
>
Rob,
Ballistic parachute systems have been WELL PROVEN over the last 23 years.
How much more proof do some of you people need. 159 lives saved is not quite
enough, huh? We have successful deployment with lives saved as low as 60'
for a small ultra-light. A larger airplane such as Vans RV7, C172 or Cirrus
could be saved at altitudes as low as 100'. How could you possible compare
that with a personal safety chute?
Of course we use fear, uncertainty and doubt to promote the message. Why?
Because those factors exist in aviation. You are flying a mechanical device
built by amateurs. If I climb into that aircraft with you, you cannot
am completely safe while driving with you. There is great "FUD" that exists
with the non-flying populace, however unreasonable you and I may believe
that to be.
Like it or not, the purse-strings are often held by someone other than the
pilot (as it is at my house) and an airplane is not going to be owned if
both parties don't agree. Wouldn't the installation of a BRS system be a
relatively small price to pay, if that would make your spouse more
comfortable with the idea? You may not have that problem, but many others
do!
I will tell you, that through our research, most non-flying passengers
overwhelmingly feel more comfortable with a device that doesn't require them
to have to get out of the airplane.
Jeff Peltier
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rich Chiappe <service(at)skytecair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slow Starter |
> Bob U. wrote on 1/2: "Battery voltage shows 12.63. Anyone else used this combination
> successfully or am I going to have to send B&C some more $$$?!"
Try the troubleshooting guide at http://www.skytecair.com/troubleshooting_V.htm . Static battery voltage doesn't give you enough information to figure out what the issue might be.
Of course, to answer your question toungue-in-cheek, I wouldn't recommend you send
B&C a dollar (and their cheapest starter will take you for 550 of those as
I understand it). I also don't understand the interest in the Air-Tec automotive
starter conversion solution at $225 when a Sky-Tec starter for your -6 would
run only $125 more. I cannot imagine 'saving' $125 so I could have MORE work
to do trying to get it to fit my project. Heck, an overhauled Sky-Tec is
about the same price as the Air-Tec and at least you know what you're getting
(will fit & LAST) and I will personally stand behind it.
Please don't hesistate to call Les or myself at Sky-Tec. We're all builder/restorer/flyers
here and we can speak the language (and feel the pain). We'd love
to help if we can.
- Rich Chiappe
Sky-Tec
800-476-7896
richc(at)skytecair.com
www.skytecair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas |
Jeff Peltier wrote:
Compare this:
> We have successful deployment with
> lives saved as low as 60' for a small ultra-light.
with:
> A larger airplane such as Vans RV7, C172 or Cirrus could be saved at
> altitudes as low as 100'.
You *have* 160 saves for ultralights. So you can show that ultralights
have a number of saves. On the other hand, you only say that a larger
airplane *could* be saved, not that many *have* been saved.
For comparison's sake, how many BRS-equipped ultralights have crashed
without deploying the BRS, or where the BRS malfunctioned? Or do you
have that data? It seems that (correct me if i'm wrong here) there have
been half a dozen incidents in Cirrus aircraft, and two of them involved
fatalities despite being equipped with BRS. How many of the other 4
aircraft are flying today? I think it's one, right?
Many (but not all) ultralights are small, confined, and have wires and
tubes running in awkward places such that exiting one may be difficult
in flight, especially if there's been a breakup. In contrast, an RV has
a cantilevered wing, and a bubble canopy that can be jettisoned in
flight (most likely true even in the event of an in-flight breakup). I
believe (rightly or wrongly) that the chances of exiting the airframe
are much higher in an RV.
> Of course we use fear, uncertainty and doubt to promote the message.
> Why? Because those factors exist in aviation. You are flying a
> mechanical device built by amateurs. If I climb into that aircraft
> with you, you cannot am completely safe while driving with you.
There is no fear, uncertainty, or doubt in my mind any time I leave the
ground in any aircraft... Certified, Amateur-Built, *or* Ultralight. I
either have 100% confidence that the airplane I lift off in will bring
me back to the ground safely or I won't fly in it. I remain *prepared*
for unexpected events (engine failure, etc.), but the moment I *expect*
one, I don't fly.
> There is great "FUD" that exists with the non-flying populace,
> however unreasonable you and I may believe that to be.
I submit that this FUD is only present because companies like yours are
promoting how *dangerous* flying is, instead of promoting how *safe*
flying is.
> Wouldn't the installation of a
> BRS system be a relatively small price to pay, if that would make
> your spouse more comfortable with the idea? You may not have that
> problem, but many others do!
What would be a larger problem... Telling your wife that there's a big
parachute mounted back there for when you screw up (thereby making her
nervous that you may screw up), or that you tell her she can't take any
baggage with her, because of that 100lb parachute back there that you
put in to make *her* happy.
> I will tell you, that through our research, most non-flying
> passengers overwhelmingly feel more comfortable with a device that
> doesn't require them to have to get out of the airplane.
I prefer to make my passengers comfortable enough with my abilities that
they consider that device to be *me*. 8-)
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
| From: | Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com> |
Glenn: I have a 7A with 0360 and C/S Hartzell. We flew from Wichita Ks to
Las Cruses. One RV8A with 0360 wood prop. One RV6 with 0320 wood prop.
One RV6A with a detuned 0360 and C/S prop. With my 0360 Superior and
hartzell C/S prop I had the least fuel burn of all going and coming.
Doyle Reed RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Help with 3 blade Catto Prop on RV3 |
Rick,
I just got my 3-blade prop from Craig Catto (it's a beaut), and I knew none
of those numbers either. I had only finished one wing of my -6A when I
ordered it. All I knew was the particulars of my AeroSport O-320, and that
my airplane is a -6A. I think he will carve you the best prop based on that
info, and also whether you want it biased toward cruise or climb. I asked
for a good compromise of both. Hope this helps.
Jim Bower
St. Louis, MO
RV-6A Fuselage
>From: "Rick Fogerson" <rickf(at)cableone.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: , "RV List" , "Chuck
>Brietigam"
>Subject: RV-List: Help with 3 blade Catto Prop on RV3
>Date: Tue, 6 Jan 2004 20:37:01 -0700
>
>
>I am ordering a 3 blade Catto prop for my RV3 with 0320 engine. The engine
>was a rebuilt by AeroSport with dual E.I. and Air Flow Performance fuel
>injection. I'm not sure what to tell Catto in terms of:
>1) max performance HP
>2) max RPM at say 8000 ft.
>3) max airspeed at say 8000ft.
>4) other useful info.
>
>in order for him to carve the prop. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
>
>Thanks,
>Rick Fogerson
>finishing wiring
>Boise, ID
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
>
>
>Guys who are flying an RV8/8A what are you showing airspeed wise with an
>0-320 powerplant? I am interested to know the speeds of the 150 horsepower
>and the modified 160 horsepower speeds and typical range veres the 0-360. I
>am looking at going with the 0-320 powerplant for range and fuel economy.
>
>Thanks
> Glenn Williams
>
You don't need to run the O-360 at 75% power if you don't want to.
It should burn the same amount of fuel as the O-320, if you pull the
throttle back so it produces the same power as the O-320. If you
want fuel economy, consider fuel injection (more even fuel
distribution lets you run leaner), electronic ignition and cruise at
45 - 55% power.
Max range is achieved at speeds that are a lot slower than most RV
pilots want to fly. The power required (and hence fuel flow) will be
the same whether you have an O-320 or O-360.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas |
Scott Bilinski wrote:
> I have never been in a out of control plane or one with a mechanical
> failure that is causing you to go down NOW. The G forces would probably be
> low 2-3 (?) and the air speed high 150 plus.........So in the case of an 8
> just how are you going to open the canopy?
I've never tried opening an -8 canopy in flight. But I expect that
quick-release pins that would disconnect the front rollers(*) from the
front of the canopy would allow you to push up the front of the canopy
enough that the slipstream could take it from there. I have *no* idea
if this would work in practise.
(*) Releasing the back of the canopy probably isn't necessary. If the
slipstream catches the front of it like I think it would, it would
probably rip the back roller off the airframe like it wasn't attached.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [Bearhawk] new eggenfellner 3.0 Lt Engine |
Hi Chris,
I went for a ride in Charlie Walker's show quality Glastar with the 2.5L 4 cyl.
Egg. Subie. I was sold on the spot. What a fantastically smooth, quiet, and powerful
engine. And not the least of the advantages is the heating system. We
were toasty warm as we flew around between Snohomish and Arlington on a cold
Western Washington morning. We fiddled around for about an hour, as Charlie demonstrated
his extraordinary airmanship and the electric Quinti prop. Fuel burn
was less than 3 gallons. I offered to top off Charlie's tanks when we returned
to Snohomish. He wouldn't hear of it. Besides, he uses auto gas ;-)
When it is time to hang a power plant on my Patrol, I will be looking at the Egg. H6 and the new Bombardier V200 6 cyl. as well. Here is a link to the Bombardier info. in case you have not seen it. http://www.vaircraftengines.com/en/thePackage.asp
Cheers
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: Chris Sinfield
To: Bearhawk(at)yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 1:40 PM
Subject: [Bearhawk] new eggenfellner 3.0 Lt Engine
Anyone thinking of using this new engine on their Bearhawk??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | WAS Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas NOW RVs & Parachutes |
Just a few comments, but FIRST ....
I do NOT have a BRS system.
I do NOT plan to install a BRS system in the RV6A under construction
I HAVE flown an aircraft with a BRS system (Cirrus)
James
> -----Original Message-----
[SNIP]
>
> You *have* 160 saves for ultralights. So you can show that ultralights
> have a number of saves. On the other hand, you only say that a larger
> airplane *could* be saved, not that many *have* been saved.
>
> For comparison's sake, how many BRS-equipped ultralights have crashed
> without deploying the BRS, or where the BRS malfunctioned? Or do you
> have that data? It seems that (correct me if i'm wrong here) there have
> been half a dozen incidents in Cirrus aircraft, and two of them involved
> fatalities despite being equipped with BRS. How many of the other 4
> aircraft are flying today? I think it's one, right?
I don't think they ever claim they will save the "airframe" ... just reduce
injury to the occupants. As a matter of fact I recall a lot of the early
Cirrus info basically saying if you deploy, you can kiss the airframe
goodbye. If it were me and I HAD to deploy and I survived, I would be just
happy to be alive and the airframe would not be of great concern to ME. Of
course if the airframe is reuseable ... great! I would also assume (don't
know for sure) that the insurance company would replace the aircraft with a
new one.
>
> Many (but not all) ultralights are small, confined, and have wires and
> tubes running in awkward places such that exiting one may be difficult
> in flight, especially if there's been a breakup. In contrast, an RV has
> a cantilevered wing, and a bubble canopy that can be jettisoned in
Hmmmm....
"... jettisoned" in flight (RV canopy). I have no data but this would
probably require some "special forces". I have had discussions with RVers
who "forgot" to latch the canopy and I even er ..."forgot" to double latch
our tip-up canopy for a flight. It did not rip off. I could NOT pull it down
and get it closed though and it would seem that at high speed you might have
problems opening it enough to get out. Again, this is sheer speculation on
my part.
> flight (most likely true even in the event of an in-flight breakup). I
> believe (rightly or wrongly) that the chances of exiting the airframe
> are much higher in an RV.
>
> > Of course we use fear, uncertainty and doubt to promote the message.
> > Why? Because those factors exist in aviation. You are flying a
> > mechanical device built by amateurs. If I climb into that aircraft
> > with you, you cannot am completely safe while driving with you.
>
> There is no fear, uncertainty, or doubt in my mind any time I leave the
> ground in any aircraft... Certified, Amateur-Built, *or* Ultralight. I
> either have 100% confidence that the airplane I lift off in will bring
Not trying to start anything, but on this did you really mean 100%
confidence or 100% "expectation"? Personally I have 100% expectation but am
not always "100 confident" that EVERYTHING will go just fine. Therefore I am
always just a bit on edge ... just in case. {I do have a very high
confidence though}
> me back to the ground safely or I won't fly in it. I remain *prepared*
> for unexpected events (engine failure, etc.), but the moment I *expect*
> one, I don't fly.
>
> > There is great "FUD" that exists with the non-flying populace,
> > however unreasonable you and I may believe that to be.
>
> I submit that this FUD is only present because companies like yours are
> promoting how *dangerous* flying is, instead of promoting how *safe*
> flying is.
>
This might not be fair to BRS. I can recall ***MANY*** a passenger and/or
parent (with NO lknowledge of companies like BRS or their products) who
asked whether my plane (Archer or RV) had a parachute. They did not ask
because they were so much misled people. They asked because they had some
amount of "fear, uncertainty and doubt".They had not been "informed" to
their comfort level yet. After taking the time to explain to MOST, there is
not problem. On the other hand for SOME, their comfort level is increased
with the parachute system.
One of these people (recently) was an older brother of mine who is not into
aviation AT ALL. Over the years, parachutes have been put forth as a final
backup plan (e.g. for fighters) and he made the leap from maybe if they can
help people then they can help "this little plane" if it gets into trouble.
If I had said from the beginning we had a parachute, I am sure he would have
flown with me sooner. But after a quiet discussion by me and other brothers,
he decided to go up with me (because he decided he trusted ME and my
decisions) and he discovered it was actually pretty cool without any type of
parachute.
> > Wouldn't the installation of a
> > BRS system be a relatively small price to pay, if that would make
> > your spouse more comfortable with the idea? You may not have that
> > problem, but many others do!
>
> What would be a larger problem... Telling your wife that there's a big
> parachute mounted back there for when you screw up (thereby making her
> nervous that you may screw up), or that you tell her she can't take any
> baggage with her, because of that 100lb parachute back there that you
> put in to make *her* happy.
In the example above(re my brother), there was not an assumption that *I*
would be the cause of the problem. The "what-if" was associated with
something "going wrong" with the plane. And baggage was not a factor. It was
a just a fun ride.
>
> > I will tell you, that through our research, most non-flying
> > passengers overwhelmingly feel more comfortable with a device that
> > doesn't require them to have to get out of the airplane.
>
> I prefer to make my passengers comfortable enough with my abilities that
> they consider that device to be *me*. 8-)
>
Yes, you have to do this. But for a few, having that extra (perceived)
safety means a lot.
James
... just another viewpoint
> -Rob
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Exiting an RV in Flight - Ideas |
| From: | "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" <F.vanderHulst(at)ucol.ac.nz> |
SG9wZWZ1bGx5IHRoaXMgZW1haWwgd2lsbCB3b3JrIHByb3Blcmx5IG5vdy4uLg0KIA0KPiAxNTkg
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Lg0KIA0KRnJhbmsNCiANCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: What every woman wants] |
----- Original Message -----
From: Marvin
Subject: [Fwd: What every woman wants]
-------- Original Message -------- From: MJSVegas(at)aol.com
Subject: What every woman wants
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
See the attachment
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and bigger |
I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy
some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1"
and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a
web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem
find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears.
Thanks,
-Will Allen
North Bend, Wa
RV8 wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and |
bigger
If you're talking about the spacers that go between the tiedown ring mount
and the spar, I used a fly cutter for that:
http://www.rvproject.com/20020504.html (see the bottom of the page)
Looking back on it I probably would rather have used a hole cutting saw
instead. Generally speaking, my preference for hole cutting would be:
- Greenlee knockout punch (good for relatively thin stock)
- unibit (usually steps up to 1", no larger that I know of)
- carbide hole saw/cutter (individual sizes)
- fly cutter (universal adjustable hole cutter)
The Greenlee punches are excellent but expensive. Spruce sells 'em at about
$35 and up, if I recall. They make nice clean holes in any sort of sheet
stock and are really easy to operate.
Unibits are a must-have for an RV project in my opinion. I believe they
only step up to 1" at the largest, though.
Hole saws are ok, but I haven't really used them too often on the RV.
The fly cutter is good if you need a hole of an arbitrary size. You can buy
it at Home Depot, Spruce, wherever. Spruce sells replacement cutting
blades. You pretty much have to use it in a drill press if you want to keep
your fingers, and even then you've got to be really careful. This is my
least favorite hole cutting method but I've had to use it a zillion times on
this project.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and
bigger
>
> I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to
buy
> some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1"
> and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a
> web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem
> find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> -Will Allen
>
> North Bend, Wa
>
> RV8 wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Koger" <rhkoger(at)fbx.com> |
| Subject: | Swap or Sell IO-360 200 HP |
I need a O-360 or 0-320 Lycoming to finish my RV-6A. Will trade or sell Lycoming
IO-360 A1A angle valve 200 HP that was removed from a turbo Mooney. Logs show
the engine had 1428.9 hours when it was factory overhauled to 0 time in 8/20/92.
The new log book shows 532.21 hrs in 7/25/99. In 2000 I bought the engine
firewall forward. Only one blade of the Hartzell prop was bent and engine did
not rotate. I got bid of $3000.for repair of prop. The crankshaft was bent and
replaced with yellow tagged standard size. All new rod bolts, gear bolts and
drive pin. The engine is together, painted and ready to be installed as a tubro
or as a fuel injected engine.
The engine has a light weight starter, vac pump, newer small size alternator, fuel
pump and the prop governor. I also have the complete exhaust system with the
Rajay unit and the chrome prop spinner for the Mooney.
This engine will not fit into my older style cowl and adds other problems. A fixed
pitch prop is also needed.
My fourth RV is finished except for the engine and instruments and it will also
be for sale. I can send some web site pictures.
Ralph Koger E-Mail: koger(at)fbx.com Web Site: www.cleavelandtool.com/kogercompany/
1947 W 1st Extension St.
Boone, IA 50036 Phone: 515-432-5714
RV-6A N16RK
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Marcel Bourgon <mbourgon(at)elp.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" |
and bigger
Will & Lynda Allen wrote:
>
>I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy
>some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1"
>and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a
>web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem
>find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>-Will Allen
>
>North Bend, Wa
>
>RV8 wings
>
>
>
>
Good morning from El Paso
We tried those fly cutters and found them very dangerous. We used a
greenlee punch. It is a two piece cutting tool used in the electric
trades. You drill a center hole then run bolt through hole and screw on
back of cutter and tighten up and nice neat hole. We used different
sizes for the panel and where ever we needed a nice a clean hole. If
you use the fly cutter watch yourself this bird can get away from you
very easily.
Marcel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
Does anyone have a used MAC servo that they would be willing to part with?
Please respond offline to scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com.
Thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
John,
I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from Ct) over the
Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it such that the compression (#1
TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the front), and
changed it to the 9 o'clock position.
I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside the cockpit)
were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having any instrumentation to
accurately quantify vibration levels, but based my estimations on observed
vibrations in the compass which is mounted on the brow screen....)
I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
135+ Hrs since Aug 03!
Did anyone who indexed thier prop per skyranch manual, to reduce vibration,
check with Ly-con? just wondering if they still honor warranties and such in
the unlikely event of an "event" that could be related to balance and
indexing.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
> John,
>
> I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from
> Ct) over the Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it
> such that the compression (#1
> TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the
> front), and changed it to the 9 o'clock position.
> I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside
> the cockpit) were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having
> any instrumentation to accurately quantify vibration levels,
> but based my estimations on observed vibrations in the
> compass which is mounted on the brow screen....)
> I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced.....
Does anyone have a theory as to why this would be the case? (Paul
Petersen, I know you will think about this one!) The engine can't sense
where the prop is, so it would have to be airflow related. I'm
skeptical about that, though. I could imagine on specific engine/props
that some imbalance offset could be occuring when the prop is rotated
relative to the crank, making for a smoother operation.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
Does anyone have a used MAC servo that they would be willing to part with?
Please respond offline to scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com
Thanks!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
At sea level I get somewhere around 205 mph (+/- 5, depending on conditions)
with my 160 hp (O-320) CS prop -8.
As for flying at 100% power, I've only done it 3-4 times (other than taking
off). Last years Sun 100 race was one time. Ran full throttle and leaned
slightly for 100 miles at low (but legal!!) altitude. got 3rd in the 160 hp
RV category my first race! Never know what might have happened if I'd have
actually known where to turn!! ;)
I *cruise* around with reduced power - 23-24" MAP, and 23-2400 rpm. I don't
have my Lyc charts, but I'd imagine this is something near 75% power. Avg
cruise speed is 170-mph (148 kts) regularly. Burns somewhere around 8-8.5
gph, leaned to some degree most all of the time except takeoff.
I get power envy when flying heavy with buddies who have 180 or 200 hp RV
types. But when I'm light, or with other 150, 160-hp machines, life is very
good. After almost 4 years and 580 hrs, I'm stilll amazed at how easily I
can just dance around all but the highest performance production planes.
Got my -320 for very low $$. It's served me very well. A swap decision is
yours to make, but I'm generally happy with my 160-hp. If (when) I upgrade,
it won't be to a -360 - it'll be to a -540. But right now, I'd rather just
keep flying than worry about new props, engine mounts, cowlings, etc, etc.
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
>I am not trying to start a debate all. All I want is the numbers and fuel
>flow for a given 0-320 or an 0-360. You see I am working an angle where I
>may possibly be given an engine and the engine will probably be the 0-320.
>I personally wanted to go with the 0-360 and if I receive the 0-320 will
>more than likely trade up to the 0-360. However I am pondering wether or
>not it is worth it. I want to know wether the guys with the 0-320's that
>are cruising at 140 to 155 knots are pulling 100% power or are pulled back
>to say 75% power to achieve those speeds. Along with that. What are you
>guys able to do at 100% power? I would also like to know the speed of an
>RV8A full power with an 0-320 and an 0-360 to compare the differences
>(VMAX). I am not looking for hard numbers here as I realize that all
>airframes are built different but am trying to decide if I want to go with
>the 0-320 or the 0-360.
>
>Thanks again and keep the comments coming
>
>Regards
> Glenn Williams
Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing How to ?? |
Has anyone collected all the data relative to prop indexing? I recall
that you know your prop isn't indexed correctly by virture of where your
prop stops when engine is shutdown. The "2 o-clock 8 o-clock"
position vrs the "10 o-clock 4 o-clock" or some such urban ledgend.
Anyone got a printable list of how this voodoo can be checked out ??
Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest drive
lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank flange.
That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the
longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...??
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
Fred,
What engine/prop combination was this?
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stucklen,
> Frederic IFC
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 9:01 AM
> To: 'rv-list(at)matronics.com'
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing
>
>
>
>
> John,
>
> I just re-indexed my prop before a trip to Florida (from Ct) over the
> Christmas/New Years break. I originally had it such that the
> compression (#1
> TDC) occurred at the 10 o'clock position (viewed from the front), and
> changed it to the 9 o'clock position.
> I would say that the vibration levels (experienced inside the cockpit)
> were reduced by at least 50%. (I do not having any instrumentation to
> accurately quantify vibration levels, but based my estimations on observed
> vibrations in the compass which is mounted on the brow screen....)
> I think my next step will be to have the prop balanced.....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-6A N926RV
> 135+ Hrs since Aug 03!
>
> Did anyone who indexed thier prop per skyranch manual, to reduce
> vibration,
> check with Ly-con? just wondering if they still honor warranties
> and such in
> the unlikely event of an "event" that could be related to balance and
> indexing.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
Another way to look at this is the $6000 thousand dollar prop and $1000
dollar governer and 30 or so lbs. of weight yield a "FREE" 400+ hours of
flight (fuel) and 30 lbs more weight carying ability every time you fly
if you use a wood or f/p sensenich prop.
(( 7000 dollars / 2.15 $/gal) / 8 gal/hr. burn rate))= 400+ gallons of
fuel
Engine condition, guage accuracy, flying abilities, drag & rigging
...there are a lot of variables to consider when making fuel burn
comparisons like this. Heck, the Bendix F/I is a great fuel injector and
it too can yield some fuel savings and flight leg extention, but there
is a $$ priemum in unit purchase and overhaul and hi pressure pumps to
get you that fuel savings. A Carb. and a Vans electric 40 dollar fuel
pump may fit you just fine and the $ savings over the Bendix/Airflow
option will buy about 250 hours of flight fuel.
Lots of way to look at options. Dollar cost and being realistic on your
flight "mission" and need is just one way.
Cheers...
From: Genev E Reed <genevreed(at)juno.com>
Glenn: I have a 7A with 0360 and C/S Hartzell. We flew from Wichita Ks
to
Las Cruses. One RV8A with 0360 wood prop. One RV6 with 0320 wood prop.
One RV6A with a detuned 0360 and C/S prop. With my 0360 Superior and
hartzell C/S prop I had the least fuel burn of all going and coming.
Doyle Reed RV7A
________________________________________________________________________________
If you wish to help Al Hayne's daughter , please visit
friendsforlaurie.com. And for more information, visit
Transplants.org. You can contribute, tax deductible, through the
transplants.org site.
Kevin
N900KB (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and |
bigger
There is no right or wrong tool choice here. In the end, we can have different
preferences based upon personal experience. I bought a brand new and expensive
instrument hole punch and hated it. The shear cut inherently left small nubs
and required what seemed to me an unnecessary amount of filing and/or sanding
to get a given instrument to fit perfectly. I sold it and ended up using my
relatively inexpensive and widely available General 3/4"-8" circle (fly) cutter
to cut out every instrument hole in the panel to perfection. After cutting
out dozens of lightening holes throughout the airframe, I felt comfortable with
the fly cutter. It produces high quality holes needing only minor deburring
very fast. Sure, a fly cutter can be dangerous. But if proper precautions
are taken, it need not be. A good drill press only gets you in the ball game and
is a mandatory piece of equipment. Always rest the work on a piece of scrap
plywood between it and the drill press table. Clamp
the work
down securely in at least two locations or better yet, as many locations as practical.
Use a low RPM, 250 works for me, a bit of cutting oil, and don't force
the feed rate. No injuries, no problems.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
>
>
>I am not trying to start a debate all. All I want is the numbers and fuel
>flow for a given 0-320 or an 0-360. You see I am working an angle where I
>may possibly be given an engine and the engine will probably be the 0-320.
>I personally wanted to go with the 0-360 and if I receive the 0-320 will
>more than likely trade up to the 0-360. However I am pondering wether or
>not it is worth it. I want to know wether the guys with the 0-320's that
>are cruising at 140 to 155 knots are pulling 100% power or are pulled back
>to say 75% power to achieve those speeds. Along with that. What are you
>guys able to do at 100% power? I would also like to know the speed of an
>RV8A full power with an 0-320 and an 0-360 to compare the differences
>(VMAX). I am not looking for hard numbers here as I realize that all
>airframes are built different but am trying to decide if I want to go with
>the 0-320 or the 0-360.
>
>Thanks again and keep the comments coming
>
>Regards
> Glenn Williams
The perf data on Van's site should help answer some of your
questions. Couple that with the knowledge that for small changes in
power, if all other conditions are the same (weight, altitude, etc)
the speed achieved will vary with the cube root of the power. So,
for a 180 hp RV-8A, Van says the max speed (i.e. full power at sea
level) is 211 mph (183 kt). For 160 hp he says 203 mph (176 kt),
which is the exact same thing you would get from the cube root rule.
For 150 hp I calculate 199 mph (173 kt).
Based on the published Van's cruise numbers at gross weight at 8,000
ft, I would expect roughly:
Engine 150 hp 160 hp 180 hp
75% power 189 mph (164 kt) 193 mph (168 kt) 201 mph (175 kt)
55% power 168 mph (146 kt) 171 mph (149 kt) 178 mph (155 kt)
The difference between 75% and 55% speeds published by Van is a bit
more than the cube root rule would suggest, and I can't figure out
why that would be. But Van has a reputation for publishing realistic
perf numbers so I don't doubt him.
The fuel flow should vary with the power. There is no magic there.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Embree <rembree(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
glenn.williams(at)businessacft.bombardier.com wrote:
>
>
>Alex and all:
> re-indexing the prop for a smoother feel from
>vibration is as you suggested. Counterbalancing it from a heavy spot in the
>crank. I am not sure what Lycoming feels about this or what this might do
>to the engine paramaters. What feels good to us might not feel good to the
>engine. I would reccomend calling Lycoming and see what they say. I mean
>you have already re-indexed and the worse thing Lycoming is going to tell
>you is to put it back and give you an explanation as to the reson why. Who
>knows they may even pass the re-indexing along to other builders. I kinda
>think personally that when you reindex you are kind of in essence retiming
>the engine. (bad example I know) what I mean is you are freeing the engine
>up (kind of like advancing and retarding the timing) so if the prop leading
>edge is past the #1 cylinder after it is fired the prop in essence has more
>momentum to turn and will be less likely to transmit the vibration from the
>cylinder firing to the airframe.
>
>Just my 2 cents worth.
>
>Glenn
>
I think my second call would be to lycoming.
My first call would be to the manufacturer of your propeller.
Then I would like to listen while they discuss it with each other.
I like to exaggerate the size, shape, position and speed of things in my
mind to get a better idea of what is going on. Imagine increasing the
length of the prop until it is a very long rod. How does it react
when suddenly moved in line with its axis versus 90 degrees to its
axis. The power stroke (horizontal movement) takes place through many
degrees of rotation adding to the complexity. Then there is the
material, wood, metal or composite. Differing dampening properties and
modulus of elasticity for each.
Things might well be smoother in the cockpit but it might also be like
driving faster over railway tracks. You don't feel it as much but all
your wheels get bent and your shocks break.
RE
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dr. Kevin P. Leathers" <DrLeathers(at)822heal.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and |
bigger
Lowes and Sears carry the item you need. They call it a circle cutter. Lowes
carries General brand for about $10.00 and Sears has their own brand for
around $20.00.
The General is a better tool, but the Sears brand cuts a slightly larger
hole at maximum.
Be careful with these tools. They are dangerous if mishandled!
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" and
bigger
>
> I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to
buy
> some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1"
> and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a
> web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem
> find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> -Will Allen
>
> North Bend, Wa
>
> RV8 wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
>
>
>Kevin I have read van's numbers as related to performance data. I realize
>that van's has a reputation for publishing good conservative numbers, and
>has used the CAFE foundation to prove their published data. I just wanted
>to know what builders are seeing out there in the "real" world. i.e. are
>the performance numbers better, same or worse. I am also determining what
>to use powerplant wise if the numbers builders are seeing are correlated to
>what I want to see when I am flying.
>
>Thanks
> Glenn Williams
>
There are a lot of variables to consider if you look at performance
numbers that people give you. First, there is a wide variation in
accuracy of airspeed systems. Some people do the work to determine
the errors in their airspeeds, and others don't. You could easily
have two RVs flying in close formation with one indicating a speed 10
kt faster than the other. Some people know how to use GPS
groundspeeds to get an accurate TAS and some people only think they
know how to do it. Some of the methods that people have cooked up
may be off by quite a bit.
And then there will be differences depending on the build quality of
the aircraft, the condition of the engine and the type of prop (wood
props are usually less efficient than metal props, as the blades have
to be thicker).
So, some aircraft will do a bit better than Van's numbers, and some
will do worse. And there are aircraft that the builder thinks is
doing better than Van's numbers, but he really has an error in his
airspeed system, and the aircraft is really slower than Van's. This
guy probably also notices that he always has a big headwind when he
compares his airspeed to the GPS groundspeed.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (and 6A) |
I have the same ELT mounting questions as Glenn but pertaining to a RV6A.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Thanks
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A (and 6A) |
Sportcraft wingtip COM antenna.
And if you live through a landing where the wings get ripped off, you can use
the ELT as a handheld. If you keep the ELT in reach in the cockpit with its
antenna.
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com> |
| Subject: | Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A |
Hello all,
For those of you with wings mounted, what is the distance between fuselage and
the first rib? I see people are mounting fuel pumps and gascolators in there,
but it looks like there isn't a wide enough space there. Can someone with a
-6 or 6A with wings mounted (but with wing root fairings off) tell me how much
gap there is? Measurements at the front (near the tank attach bracket) and right
in front of the spar would be great.
Thanks - Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Forever Auburn, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Flap Motor updated info |
List...
One of the guys from Van's whose opinion I highly respect emailed and
suggested that excess loads on flaps could cause motor failure. Excess loads could
be
caused by friction in the flaps themselves, so important that with motor
disconnected the flaps should move freely, which ours do. He also mentioned that
it is possible if flaps always extended at 100 mph that this might overload and
cause arcing. We've been doing that per Mike Seager's training, but see no
reason to continue, so we'll try 80. Anyone on the list see anything wrong with
that?
Jerry Cochran
snowbound in Oregon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A |
Mitch,
I am not at the airport (actually home with the cold/flu) but there is
enough room in there to mount either the Andair or the Vans gascolator.
Our (flying) 6 has the Vans and the 6A I am building has the Andair.
Also, there is enough space to allow removal (assuming right fittings of
course).
James
p.s. The biggest problem we have had is a small leak from one of the
fittings. A real pain as it is slow but fast enough to stain the bottom of
plane after a few days. Of course this has nothing to do with the mounting
location.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mitch Faatz
> Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2004 1:26 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> For those of you with wings mounted, what is the distance between
> fuselage and the first rib? I see people are mounting fuel pumps
> and gascolators in there, but it looks like there isn't a wide
> enough space there. Can someone with a -6 or 6A with wings
> mounted (but with wing root fairings off) tell me how much gap
> there is? Measurements at the front (near the tank attach
> bracket) and right in front of the spar would be great.
>
>
> Thanks - Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Forever Auburn, CA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: airspeeds of RV8/8A with 0-320 engine |
>I just wanted
>to know what builders are seeing out there in the "real" world.
I'm not Kevin and he would probably answer more diplomatically but I would
say that many real world builders will be seeing bad data collected under
suboptimal experimental conditions. Flavor that with a large dose of what
they hope to see.
I are a engineer, well trained to do experiments and collect data and I did
so very poorly during my test flights.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing root-fuselage gap on RV-6/6A |
Hi Mitch,
I did not remove the root fairing but I measured from the fuselage side
to the centerline of the rivets holding the skin to the root rib. So,
you can add about 5/16" (half the flange width)to the measurements. At
the spar, the space is about 2-1/2" and at the leading edge, 3-1/2".
Keep in mind that you have the fuel line, tank vents and wires to the
fuel sensors going between the tank and fuselage on both sides and on
the left, you have the pitot line.
Richard Dudley
-6A completing the many final details
Mitch Faatz wrote:
>
>
> Hello all,
>
> For those of you with wings mounted, what is the distance between fuselage and
the first rib? I see people are mounting fuel pumps and gascolators in there,
but it looks like there isn't a wide enough space there. Can someone with
a -6 or 6A with wings mounted (but with wing root fairings off) tell me how much
gap there is? Measurements at the front (near the tank attach bracket) and
right in front of the spar would be great.
>
> Thanks - Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit Forever Auburn, CA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)usjet.net> |
| Subject: | RV filler caps leaking |
>
> Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking
> with full tanks, one worse than the other. Tried to tighten
> the nut on the back but am afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas?
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
Scott, take them apart and reassemble them, lubricating with Fuel Lube,
aka as EZ Turn. BTW, the nut is acting as a lock nut, the bottom piece
also threads onto the screw. Count turns as you remove it so that you
can reassemble it with about the right adjustment. Get fuel lube into
the threads and on the O-rings. If your caps have the plastic thrust
part, chuck it and get a stainless steel one from Van's (this is the
part against which the locking lever slides when it is actuated). They
won't leak any more.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 425 hours
www.usfamily.net/web/alexpeterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV filler caps leaking |
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full tanks,
>one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am
>afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas?
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
Scott,
I have one cap that seeps fuel when full, and the other one never does. It
may have something to do with the filler necks too. There is a fine line
between sealing, and going overboard and snapping the pin. Are you lubing
the O-rings/cap parts with fuel lube? I goop them pretty good and it helps
the whole assembly work with more torque on the nut than possible if left
dry. O rings can also be less than perfect right from the get go. A local
industrial seal and fitting store might have viton rings the right size to
try out.
Brian Denk
Rv8 N94BD
RV10 51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing How to ?? |
My questions in regard to the Prop re-indexing thread are:
Would not the design stage of the props and for that matter engines include
the proposed indexing of props as part of the design criteria?
Have the prop manufacturers such as Hartzell, McCauley(sp), Sensinich(sp)
etc. done any vibration testing with their products with the props
re-indexed as suggested in earlier postings?
It seems to me that re-indexing any prop on any Prop/ engine combination
would likely have a drastic effect on the outcomes of any such vibration
testing regimes. Weather that change could be good or bad I cannot say.
NOTE! Less vibration felt and or otherwise sensed in the structure of an
airframe without the aid of specialized equipment etc. does not by necessity
indicate a reduction of the potentially damaging vibration modes that can
lead to premature catastrophic failure of prop hubs, blades, and or engines.
Predicting the nature of the effects good or bad due to prop re-indexing is
way beyond my ability or the abilities of any homebuilder that I know of.
I am not saying that this or that positive or negative outcome will arise
out of re-indexing props, I am only indicating that many ghosts can hide
only to be "busted" so to speak, with the use of test equipment and
facilities that are well beyond the reach and budget of the average.
homebuilder.
I guess I am trying to ask if this re-indexing could be done with constant
speed props, while at the same time trying to offer a cautionary note to not
take this re-indexing thing at all lightly.
Until being otherwise informed I for one do not believe re-indexing of any
prop to be a necessarily safe option no matter how good it feels to mere
mortal senses.
Take care,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "P M Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing How to ??
>
> Has anyone collected all the data relative to prop indexing? I recall
> that you know your prop isn't indexed correctly by virture of where your
> prop stops when engine is shutdown. The "2 o-clock 8 o-clock"
> position vrs the "10 o-clock 4 o-clock" or some such urban ledgend.
> Anyone got a printable list of how this voodoo can be checked out ??
>
> Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest drive
> lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank flange.
> That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the
> longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...??
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV filler caps leaking |
> >Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full
tanks,
> >one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am
> >afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas?
> >
> >
> >Scott Bilinski
> >Eng dept 305
>
>
> Scott,
>
> I have one cap that seeps fuel when full, and the other one never does.
It
> may have something to do with the filler necks too. There is a fine line
> between sealing, and going overboard and snapping the pin. Are you lubing
> the O-rings/cap parts with fuel lube? I goop them pretty good and it helps
> the whole assembly work with more torque on the nut than possible if left
> dry. O rings can also be less than perfect right from the get go. A
local
> industrial seal and fitting store might have viton rings the right size to
> try out.
>
> Brian Denk
> Rv8 N94BD
> RV10 51
Ditto Brian's experience, one that leaks regardless when full, one that
doesn't. Testing various caps has confirmed that it has something to do with
the female seat and nothing to do with the cap. It's probably slightly
deformed and I have no idea how to correct it. Unfortunately I've taken to
just living with it.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 366 hrs
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: propeller indexing and engine smoothness |
This is a very interesting concept but I'm wondering how you guys are doing
this? The prop flange on my O-360 A1A has raised bosses on four of the six
holes that are designed to mate up with recesses on the prop hub. The two
that don't are 180 opposite each other. I've had a Hartzell and three
different Whirl Wind propellers on there and there's only two possible
positions to install it and they are 180 degrees apart so you don't have any
way to "index" the prop as is being described. Please clue me in, and what
do the engine building gurus such as Aero Sport Power or Lycon have to say
about all this?
BTW, here's some additional trivia for you: My Hartzell stopped at
10:00/4:00 as viewed from the front just like everyone elses. Then I
installed the Whirl Wind 200C and later the 200RV and they both stopped at
9:00/3:00 (dead horizontal). I asked WW about this and guessed it had
something to do with the mass of the propeller and he laughed. Seems
McCauley, who makes the hub for these two models, just indexes it in a
different place than Hartzell and he didn't know why. Hmm, maybe this is one
reason why the WW props feel smoother?
Inquiring minds want to know more.
Randy Lervold
RV-8
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: propeller indexing and engine smoothness
>
> I can second Bill's suggestion in the following post. We re-indexed a
fixed
> pitch Sensinich on a low compression O-360 powered RV8A today. The owner,
> who had been complaining of vibration, said the change made a very
> significant improvement. This after trying everything else we could think
> of. The prop had been dynamically balanced previously and required only
> required a few grams to balance to .04 IPS. We removed this small weight
> along with the re-indexing and still saw the significant improvement.
>
> Dick Sipp
> RV4 250DS RV10 110DV
>
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com
> >
> > Over the weekend I had to pull the cowl and prop to make repairs on a
> broken aluminum alternator tension arm, and thought while I had the prop
off
> anyway I would try a suggestion I had read about in the Sky Ranch
> Engineering Manual. It says that a flat four engine will run more
smoothly
> if the prop is indexed to be in the same plane as the crank pins, meaning
it
> is horizontal when the pistons are at top or bottom dead center. This
> orientation is 60 degrees away from the indexing that is traditional for
> Lycomings, which is a concession to ease of hand-propping.
> >
> > Well, I tried it and it works. The difference in smoothness was
noticable
> from very first startup, and the engine is (subjectively) smoother at all
> rpm ranges. The prop now stops at about 1 o'clock position viewed from
the
> front, as opposed to the traditional 10 o'clock position. The compression
> stroke is felt much lower down in the swing, making it indeed very awkward
> and dangerous to hand prop as you have to bend way over to pull it
through.
> But since I never hand prop my plane, I consider it worth the trade off.
I'm
> going to take a wild guess and say the vibration level is about half what
it
> was before. I find myself now wondering if the dynamic balance I was
> considering before would even be worth the cost and effort. Now, if only
we
> could solve the exhaust pulse floor vibration as easily ;-)
> >
> > -Bill Boyd
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | smoothweasel(at)juno.com |
I was chatting with a friend the other day and he made the
statement that EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are NOT exempt from AD
compliances....... I did not get involved in a discussion that I am not
sure of but my thinking is that there is no requirement for them to
comply.
Joel "Weasel" Graber
-4 painted as of last weekend
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV filler caps leaking |
couple of other thoughts... Chapstick works as a pretty good lubricant. Be
sure to lube the oring and cam mechanism. If everythings lube'd well and
moving freely, try the new oring first - it's probably the cheapest part to
start replacing.
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
> > >Need to tighten up my filler caps because they are leaking with full
>tanks,
> > >one worse than the other. Tried to tighten the nut on the back but am
> > >afraid of shearing the pin off. Any ideas?
> > >
> > >
> > >Scott Bilinski
> > >Eng dept 305
> >
> >
> > Scott,
> >
> > I have one cap that seeps fuel when full, and the other one never does.
>It
> > may have something to do with the filler necks too. There is a fine
>line
> > between sealing, and going overboard and snapping the pin. Are you
>lubing
> > the O-rings/cap parts with fuel lube? I goop them pretty good and it
>helps
> > the whole assembly work with more torque on the nut than possible if
>left
> > dry. O rings can also be less than perfect right from the get go. A
>local
> > industrial seal and fitting store might have viton rings the right size
>to
> > try out.
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > Rv8 N94BD
> > RV10 51
>
>
>Ditto Brian's experience, one that leaks regardless when full, one that
>doesn't. Testing various caps has confirmed that it has something to do
>with
>the female seat and nothing to do with the cap. It's probably slightly
>deformed and I have no idea how to correct it. Unfortunately I've taken to
>just living with it.
>
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, 366 hrs
>www.rv-8.com
>
Get reliable dial-up Internet access now with our limited-time introductory
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bruce Swayze <swayze(at)europa.com> |
| Subject: | Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Fellow Listers,
Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the
"normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland,
and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback
from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it? Would
you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it
would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux.
Thanks!
Bruce Swayze
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leesafur(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-3 Alieron bracket |
I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts and
drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures that
I
have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you let me
know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt holes
are not
final drilled to 3/16 yet.
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
Lee
Anoka MN
RV-3 wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aaron Villery" <scudrunr1(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
I really love my little Sioux drill. She works great. I don't really know if
it works $150 great but I really like it. Its also pretty comfortable for
those long lines of holes. I assume Chicago Pneumatic is a Harbor Freight
brand?
Aaron Villery
F1 Rocket SN138
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Swayze" <swayze(at)europa.com>
Subject: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ??
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
>
> I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the
> "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland,
> and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback
> from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it?
Would
> you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it
> would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce Swayze
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Chicago Pneumatic is harbor freight's house brand. They are Chinese
knockoffs of other manufacturer's tools. The quality varies. I've not
handled this particular tool so I can't say for sure, but my guess is
that it'll work and that you may not be happy with the chuck and/or
trigger. You should check it's price against hf's website to see if
you're really getting a substantial discount.
I just searched it at 89.99 and it claims 2500 rpm.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=4027
I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I usually
end up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first
time. It's not a good way to save money.
Ed Holyoke
6 canopy skirts
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Swayze
Subject: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ??
Fellow Listers,
Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the
"normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and
Cleaveland,
and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback
from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it?
Would
you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if
it
would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux.
Thanks!
Bruce Swayze
---
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rob Prior <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
> Chicago Pneumatic is harbor freight's house brand.
I think you'll find that *Central* Pneumatic is HF's house brand, not
*Chicago* Pneumatic. If you look for "air drill" on HF's site, you'll find
a lot of drills for $25-$50, which I think are the "cheaper" ones you're
referring to.
http://www.chicagopneumatic.com/
The picture of the Chicago drill on HF's website looks a lot like the Sioux
equivalent, I think... I've only seen the Sioux one once though.
-RB4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cammie Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net> |
| Subject: | RV-3 Aileron bracket |
You'll need to cut the access hole all the way down to the flange, to
provide a flat spot for the nut to go.
I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts
and
drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures
that I
have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you
let me
know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt
holes are not
final drilled to 3/16 yet.
http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
Lee
Anoka MN
RV-3 wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Bruce Swayze wrote:
>
>Fellow Listers,
>
>Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
>
>I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the
>"normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland,
>and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback
>from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it? Would
>you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it
>would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Bruce Swayze
>
>
I do must of my drilling with my DeWalt cordless drill, but I did buy a
$30 air drill from Harbor Freight and it works just fine also. If I was
going to spend $150 on a drill it would be for a new cordless and I'd
get the cheap air drill.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Man, you're right - I was reading central when it said Chicago and I cut
and pasted it instead of spelling it. Might be a better tool than I
thought.
Ed
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob Prior
Subject: Re: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ??
Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
> Chicago Pneumatic is harbor freight's house brand.
I think you'll find that *Central* Pneumatic is HF's house brand, not
*Chicago* Pneumatic. If you look for "air drill" on HF's site, you'll
find
a lot of drills for $25-$50, which I think are the "cheaper" ones you're
referring to.
http://www.chicagopneumatic.com/
The picture of the Chicago drill on HF's website looks a lot like the
Sioux
equivalent, I think... I've only seen the Sioux one once though.
-RB4
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 Alieron bracket |
Experience with building RV-6 ailerons suggests you simply cut a notch or
slot in the web of the -304 rib extending from the lightening hole down to
the forward flange to provide room to install the AN365 nut. You could
provide a scrap shim equal in thickness of the forward flange (probably
.025) under the nut so that there is a level surface for it to bear on or
simply cut a semi-circle out of the flange so the nut bears directly on the
spar's aft face.
Do not worry about weakening the rib in this area - after all, there will be
a healthy sized piece of very strong 4130 steel bolted in place to act as a
"doubler"!
Jim Oke
RV-6A, RV-3
Winnipeg, Man.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Leesafur(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV-3 Alieron bracket
>
> I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
> outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts
and
> drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures
that I
> have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you
let me
> know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt
holes are not
> final drilled to 3/16 yet.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
>
>
> Lee
> Anoka MN
> RV-3 wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 Aileron bracket |
Why not install a nutplate back there instead of a nut? Less clearance
required, no wrench hole required.
That's what I did on my RV-7, which has pretty much the same setup. I know
you already cut the wrench access hole and everything, but next time you
wouldn't need to.
Just my 2 cents,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cammie Patch" <cammie(at)sunvalley.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-3 Aileron bracket
>
> You'll need to cut the access hole all the way down to the flange, to
> provide a flat spot for the nut to go.
>
>
> I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
> outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts
> and
> drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures
> that I
> have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you
> let me
> know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt
> holes are not
> final drilled to 3/16 yet.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
>
>
> Lee
> Anoka MN
> RV-3 wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Bruce Stewart <Bruce.Stewart1(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Alieron bracket |
Lee,
I've had a look at the drawings and the photos, seems to me you
have just drilled a hole in the wrong place maybe......
Can you post some more photos that arn't so close and more general
views?
Bruce
Downunder.
>--> RV3-List message posted by: Leesafur(at)aol.com
>
>I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
>outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts and
>drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures
>that I
>have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you
>let me
>know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt
>holes are not
>final drilled to 3/16 yet.
>
>http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
>
>
>Lee
>Anoka MN
>RV-3 wing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
RV-3(at)yahoogroups.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
| From: | Bruce Stewart <Bruce.Stewart1(at)bigpond.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV3-List: RV-3 Alieron bracket |
Second take,
yeah I see the problem! mmmmmmmm
ummm errrrr
Haven't a clue.........yet.
Bruce
>Lee,
>
>I've had a look at the drawings and the photos, seems to me you
>have just drilled a hole in the wrong place maybe......
>
>Can you post some more photos that arn't so close and more general
>views?
>
>Bruce
>
>Downunder.
>
>
>>--> RV3-List message posted by: Leesafur(at)aol.com
>>
>>I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
>>outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these
parts and
>>drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures
>>that I
>>have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you
>>let me
>>know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt
>>holes are not
>>final drilled to 3/16 yet.
>>
>>http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
>>
>>
>>Lee
>>Anoka MN
>>RV-3 wing
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Bruce, I guess if I were starting over again on another "snap together" 7,
I'd bid on one of those. Remember, as has been stated previously, the drill
usage on the new kits amounts to 99% reaming rather than drilling. The days
of buying the big expensive double throw me down, never to experience a
warped wobbler $$$$$$ drills are a thing of the past.........unless you just
want to own the most expensive air drill in the neighborhood.
My drill.............El Cheapo Delta, abused due to lack of oiling but got
the emp, wings, fuselage and finish kit drilling accomplished.
Heck, for that price I'm almost willing to bid on one:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
Buying Instruments. Hangar flying my Dynon.
http://rvflying.tripod.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill |
Chicago Pneumatic is a major vendor of air tools used at McBoeing in St. Louis.
That is a fairly good datapoint because only the most reliable tools are purchased
for daily shop floor use. My experience was the drill motors are highly
reliable, but like anything else, some motors ran more smoothly than others. The
drills were not often sent to the air tool maintenance department for repair,
and even then the problem was often traced to the worker neglecting the obligatory
daily drop of oil. Be careful though. Counterfeit CP's and CP clones
are out there. The name alone does not guarantee that the specific drill motor
you seek is a bargain. Even if it is the real deal, you have no idea of its work
history. Caveat emptor.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ray sheffield" <rv8a(at)csranet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Very pleased with the cp drill.
ray
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Swayze" <swayze(at)europa.com>
Subject: RV-List: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ??
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> Chicago Pneumatic #CP-7300 1/4" capacity mini air drill 2800 rpm
>
> I have an opportunity to purchase this drill at a nice discount from the
> "normal" price. I checked the biggest tool sellers, Avery and Cleaveland,
> and neither of them sell this exact drill. I'm looking for any feedback
> from someone who uses it. Anyone out there have one? Do you like it?
Would
> you buy it again? I'm building my tool collection and I'm wondering if it
> would be worth spending roughly $150 more to get the Sioux.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Bruce Swayze
>
>
> ---
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-3 Alieron bracket |
Don't you just hate that.
The RV-6 ailerons have a mouse hole shown on the end rib (A-304 for you)
rather than the circular hole. The hole is relatively small but
sufficient to get a spanner onto the bolt. The base of the mouse hole
is against the aileron spar.
Doug Gray
Leesafur(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I have a clearance problem with the inboard a-304 aileron rib and the
> outboard AN-3 bolt for the a-305 aileron bracket. I have built these parts and
> drilled the holes exactly to the plans please take a look at the pictures that
I
> have and let me know what you think and if you built these bugger can you let
me
> know what you did because I haven=E2=80=99t a clue. Please note the bolt holes
are not
> final drilled to 3/16 yet.
>
> http://www.angelfire.com/mech/rv-3/aileron.html
>
>
> Lee
> Anoka MN
> RV-3 wing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Sun 100 Air Race |
Apparently, the race is still on for 2004. I got a .pdf format entry form
from ACS yesterday. Write them at info(at)aircraftspruce.com or email me off
the list and I'll forward you a copy. Scanning over the document,
everything sounds like what was done in years past.
Bryan Jones -8
www.LoneStarSquadron.com
Houston, Texas
Working moms: Find helpful tips here on managing kids, home, work and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
Gentlemen,
I would like to use an electric oil pump to pre-oil the engine prior to
every
start (like the one on the Infinity stick grip site
www.infinityaerospace.com). They have a little sketch
(www.infinityaerospace.com/Installation.jpg) of a possible connection
method. I am writing to ask the engine Guru's among you if their sketch is
the best method or should I be considering another way of plumbing the pump.
I think that I would prefer to plumb in the oil pressure
switch (firewall mounted) with a 1/4" hose from the usual location (right
rear oil galley).
I have an IO360-A1A with an Airwolf remote mounted oil filter (mounted on
the
firewall). I have a constant speed prop if that matters and I will be
returning
the air/oil seperator to the location that Mr. Mahon suggested on the
Lycoming list a
few weeks ago (removing a plug in the lower right rear, facing forward,
quadrant of the accessory case).
Vince Welch
Expand your wine savvy and get some great new recipes at MSN Wine.
http://wine.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n6jx(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | Specific Fuel Consumption |
Recent discussion on the RV list have touched on the topic of different engine
/ prop combinations, and the impact on performance. Tom, Kevin and other have
pointed out that to go a given speed, a given horsepower is required, and it
really doesn't matter what size engine you have (as long as it is big enough
to produce the required horsepower). Along with that, to produce a given horsepower,
a given amount of fuel is required, which is the "Specific Fuel Consumption"
of the engine. Doing some research on this, I found that there actually
is a fairly small range of SFC that efficient internal combustion engines
fall into, that being .42 to .47 pounds of fuel per horsepower per hour. With
this information, it is possible to calculate a power to fuel burn chart as attached
below.
Testing this out in my RV I have found this to be right on with the actual performance
I am getting when compared to the Lycoming power charts in my engine's
operating manual. My plane is an RV-6A with a Fuel injected 180 hp Lyc O-360
and a CS prop. At 7000 feet, Running 23.5" Manifold Press and 2400 RPM, if
I lean to 8.2 Gal/hour (EGT 50 degrees lean of peak), I get 164kts TAS and if
I richen the mixture to 9.8 Gal/Hour (EGT 75 degrees rich of peak), I get 172kts
TAS. Looking in my Lyc manual at the power charts, these figures align
pretty well with the % power vs fuel flow charts in the manual. Given this,
it can be seen that Man. Press and RPM do not always equal horsepower. Horsepower
is RPM and Torque, and by varing the fuel load, we can vary the torque at
any given RPM and thus vary the horsepower. With a fixed pitch prop, as you
adjusted the mixture, the RPM would change, but with a Constant Speed prop, the
pitch of the prop changes, which is not reflected on any guages other than fuel
flow.
This makes it interesting to set a speed. Since I can't run the mixture between
50 degrees lean and 75 degrees rich of peak, and as the throttle is already
wide open, 172kts at 9.8 Gal/Hr is close to max speed at that altitude. To go
slower than 172 but faster than 164, I must run a richer mixture than 9.8 Gal/Hr,
so in fact I burn more fuel to go slower, which makes sense as a richer fuel/air
mixture reduces power. So in actual practice, I either cruise at 172kts
or at or below 164kts. If an additional column was added to the table below
for kts speed, it would be very easy to find the best economy cruise. I get
17.6 nm/Gal at 172kts and 20 nm/Gal at 164kts. I haven't bothered to take
reading at other setting yet, but will do so one of these days.
Of course, 135hp equals 75% power in a 180hp motor, 85% power in a 160hp and only
50% power in a 270hp rocket. So it is quite reasonable that a formation of
RVs flying together will be close to each other in fuel burn regardless of engine
size, the biggest variable being the ability of the pilot to lean the engine
to the best possible fuel/air mixture. Of couse differences in airframe drag
and prop efficiency will aslo play a role, but probably pretty minor given
the same aircraft model and a reasonably efficient prop.
Would appreciate any feedback on these numbers and how other feel they fit with
their expierence.
Mel Jordan
Tucson
Specific Fuel Consumption
SFC Min Max
LB/HP 0.4300 0.4600
GAL/HP 0.0717 0.0767
Fuel Weight 6 LB/GAL
HP % PWR GAL/HR GAL/HR
180 100% Min Max
50 28% 3.58 3.83
55 31% 3.94 4.22
60 33% 4.30 4.60
65 36% 4.66 4.98
70 39% 5.02 5.37
75 42% 5.38 5.75
80 44% 5.73 6.13
85 47% 6.09 6.52
90 50% 6.45 6.90
95 53% 6.81 7.28
100 56% 7.17 7.67
105 58% 7.53 8.05
110 61% 7.88 8.43
115 64% 8.24 8.82
120 67% 8.60 9.20
125 69% 8.96 9.58
130 72% 9.32 9.97
135 75% 9.68 10.35
140 78% 10.03 10.73
145 81% 10.39 11.12
150 83% 10.75 11.50
155 86% 11.11 11.88
160 89% 11.47 12.27
165 92% 11.83 12.65
170 94% 12.18 13.03
175 97% 12.54 13.42
180 100% 12.90 13.80
185 103% 13.26 14.18
190 106% 13.62 14.57
195 108% 13.98 14.95
200 111% 14.33 15.33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing - reply |
(for the archives and future searching....thanks Jim...)
In a message dated 1/8/04 7:12:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
pcondon(at)mitre.org writes:
Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest
drive
lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank
flange.
That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the
longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...??
The "longest lug"??? I believe the lugs are the same length. One of
them has a "step" which lines up with the O marked hole on the
starter ring gear. I do not believe that it has anything to do with
prop indexing, other than to allow a starting point at which to
determine
when #1 cylinder is at TDC. The physical indexing is determined by how
you install the spinner backplate.
Jim Nice
WA State
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" <pwiethe(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
I bought the Chicago Pneumatic CP-7300 air drill a couple weeks ago from a local
industrial tool shop that sells CP stuff for $74.00 and I Iove it. It replaced
a Taylor 3/8 air drill in which the runout had become excessive due to one
too many drops. The CP spins faster and the runout is very tight. The drill
is very light and compact and the rubber coated grip feels nice.
Phil Wiethe
8A Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption] |
The way I view things is that fuel produces power. Therefore based on your
engine's efficiency the amount of fuel you burn is proportional to the
horsepower, with in reason. By reason I mean if you dump all gas and no air,
you get no power...
So if we go back to engine theory and say that we want to have a 14.7:1 air
fuel ratio, then by measuring the air entering the engine we can calculate
the fuel burned, again assuming 14.7:1. So to calculate the mass of the air
entering the engine we can get close by measuring the RPMs, Air temperature,
Barometer pressure, and MAP, this is called speed density calculations.
Now what most people do for calculating percentage of horsepower is realize
that the air temperature and barometer pressure cancel out, removed from
equation. Thus you can estimate percentage of horsepower based on MAP and
RPM, again assuming constant fuel mixture. This the problem, if you change
air fuel ratio/mixture you change the maximum horsepower and thus you may
still read 75% horsepower but your 100% horsepower level may have changed.
A better method would be to calculate real horsepower estimates. That is by
measuring the fuel flow, and the air flow you can actually calculate the
fuel to air ratio. Then by knowing the efficiency of the engine you can get
a pretty good estimate of real horsepower, however the efficiency of the
engine will be variable and not easy to estimate, thus you will always have
some inaccuracies. Even better is to use a fuel injected engine with an O2
sensor such that the computer maintains a constant air fuel ratio.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
Stern Technologies
4321 Waterwheel Dr
Raleigh NC 27606
919-832-8441 Ext. 12 (voice)
919-832-8441 (fax)
www.sterntech.com
tstern(at)sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of n6jx(at)earthlink.net
Subject: RV-List: Specific Fuel Consumption
Recent discussion on the RV list have touched on the topic of different
engine / prop combinations, and the impact on performance. Tom, Kevin and
other have pointed out that to go a given speed, a given horsepower is
required, and it really doesn't matter what size engine you have (as long as
it is big enough to produce the required horsepower). Along with that, to
produce a given horsepower, a given amount of fuel is required, which is the
"Specific Fuel Consumption" of the engine. Doing some research on this, I
found that there actually is a fairly small range of SFC that efficient
internal combustion engines fall into, that being .42 to .47 pounds of fuel
per horsepower per hour. With this information, it is possible to calculate
a power to fuel burn chart as attached below.
Testing this out in my RV I have found this to be right on with the actual
performance I am getting when compared to the Lycoming power charts in my
engine's operating manual. My plane is an RV-6A with a Fuel injected 180
hp Lyc O-360 and a CS prop. At 7000 feet, Running 23.5" Manifold Press and
2400 RPM, if I lean to 8.2 Gal/hour (EGT 50 degrees lean of peak), I get
164kts TAS and if I richen the mixture to 9.8 Gal/Hour (EGT 75 degrees rich
of peak), I get 172kts TAS. Looking in my Lyc manual at the power charts,
these figures align pretty well with the % power vs fuel flow charts in the
manual. Given this, it can be seen that Man. Press and RPM do not always
equal horsepower. Horsepower is RPM and Torque, and by varing the fuel
load, we can vary the torque at any given RPM and thus vary the horsepower.
With a fixed pitch prop, as you adjusted the mixture, the RPM would change,
but with a Constant Speed prop, the pitch of the prop changes, which is not
reflected !
on any guages other than fuel flow.
This makes it interesting to set a speed. Since I can't run the mixture
between 50 degrees lean and 75 degrees rich of peak, and as the throttle is
already wide open, 172kts at 9.8 Gal/Hr is close to max speed at that
altitude. To go slower than 172 but faster than 164, I must run a richer
mixture than 9.8 Gal/Hr, so in fact I burn more fuel to go slower, which
makes sense as a richer fuel/air mixture reduces power. So in actual
practice, I either cruise at 172kts or at or below 164kts. If an
additional column was added to the table below for kts speed, it would be
very easy to find the best economy cruise. I get 17.6 nm/Gal at 172kts and
20 nm/Gal at 164kts. I haven't bothered to take reading at other setting
yet, but will do so one of these days.
Of course, 135hp equals 75% power in a 180hp motor, 85% power in a 160hp and
only 50% power in a 270hp rocket. So it is quite reasonable that a
formation of RVs flying together will be close to each other in fuel burn
regardless of engine size, the biggest variable being the ability of the
pilot to lean the engine to the best possible fuel/air mixture. Of couse
differences in airframe drag and prop efficiency will aslo play a role, but
probably pretty minor given the same aircraft model and a reasonably
efficient prop.
Would appreciate any feedback on these numbers and how other feel they fit
with their expierence.
Mel Jordan
Tucson
Specific Fuel Consumption
SFC Min Max
LB/HP 0.4300 0.4600
GAL/HP 0.0717 0.0767
Fuel Weight 6 LB/GAL
HP % PWR GAL/HR GAL/HR
180 100% Min Max
50 28% 3.58 3.83
55 31% 3.94 4.22
60 33% 4.30 4.60
65 36% 4.66 4.98
70 39% 5.02 5.37
75 42% 5.38 5.75
80 44% 5.73 6.13
85 47% 6.09 6.52
90 50% 6.45 6.90
95 53% 6.81 7.28
100 56% 7.17 7.67
105 58% 7.53 8.05
110 61% 7.88 8.43
115 64% 8.24 8.82
120 67% 8.60 9.20
125 69% 8.96 9.58
130 72% 9.32 9.97
135 75% 9.68 10.35
140 78% 10.03 10.73
145 81% 10.39 11.12
150 83% 10.75 11.50
155 86% 11.11 11.88
160 89% 11.47 12.27
165 92% 11.83 12.65
170 94% 12.18 13.03
175 97% 12.54 13.42
180 100% 12.90 13.80
185 103% 13.26 14.18
190 106% 13.62 14.57
195 108% 13.98 14.95
200 111% 14.33 15.33
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wiethe, Philip (P.J.)" <pwiethe(at)ford.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Oil Pump |
Vince,
You might want to try this simpler approach. Have your starter on a separate button
from your ignition(s). When you go to start the engine, hold down the starter
button with the ignition(s) off until you see the oil pressure come up
to normal on your oil pressure gauge, then turn on the ignitions. You are getting
cylinder pressure without oil initially, however, this is much lower than
the cylinder pressures during combustion. We do this on a very expensive, 13:1
compression, 600 Hp race motor (that won the Baja 1000 two years ago). There
are also some other benefits in having your starter separated instead of using
the traditional key start Off-L-R-IGN switch.
Phil Wiethe
8A fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aux Oil Pump |
Vincent Welch wrote:
>
>Gentlemen,
>
>I would like to use an electric oil pump to pre-oil the engine prior to
>every
>start (like the one on the Infinity stick grip site
>www.infinityaerospace.com). They have a little sketch
>(www.infinityaerospace.com/Installation.jpg) of a possible connection
>method. I am writing to ask the engine Guru's among you if their sketch is
>the best method or should I be considering another way of plumbing the pump.
>I think that I would prefer to plumb in the oil pressure
>switch (firewall mounted) with a 1/4" hose from the usual location (right
>rear oil galley).
>
>I have an IO360-A1A with an Airwolf remote mounted oil filter (mounted on
>the
>firewall). I have a constant speed prop if that matters and I will be
>returning
>the air/oil seperator to the location that Mr. Mahon suggested on the
>Lycoming list a
>few weeks ago (removing a plug in the lower right rear, facing forward,
>quadrant of the accessory case).
>
>
>Vince Welch
>
Vince, Even though I don't fancy myself as an 'engine guru', I'll answer
your question first: There is no 'best' method. That method will work
just fine. I'm not one to talk anybody out of what the want, but I have
a question: WHY? What is your reasoning in adding the additional
plumbing, weight, etc? Are you planning on letting your airplane sit
idle for months at a time? If so, then I guess the pump may be of
marginal use. I don't see the value in hauling around a pump that
really doesn't do much ..... unless you have a mechanical oil pump
failure ...... at which time the elec. pump just may get you to an
airport safely. the problem with pre-oilers is that those areas most
subject to rust and corrosion such as the cam and cam followers won't
get any additional oil, as well as the rocker arms. The pre-oiler will
get oil to the cam and crank bearings as well as the con-rod crank
bearings. The pistons, cylinders etc. won't benefit. So, without
knowing your reasons, I can't address those concerns. As you can see, I
don't see having a back-up oil pump sufficient reason.
Also, you're installing an air-oil separator. Not a real good idea, in
my opinion. There is quite a lot of acid and water generated during
combustion that ends up in the oil. That acid and water needs to boiled
off if you expect your engine to go to TBO or beyond. That means flying
for an hour or more. Returning that moisture back to the engine doesn't
come under the heading of being 'good to your engine'. Short hops around
the patch are more harmful than beneficial. The separator will keep the
belly cleaner, but you cover up a good engine diagnostic tool. The
excess blowby is caused by worn or broken rings, and if the separator is
really working great, you'll miss the warning signs. Catastrophic
failures aren't fun.
Think about your reasons for your wish list ...... and the consequences
........ before you jump.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Specific Fuel Consumption |
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
Excellent post. I too use 2400 RPM and almost full throttle for cruise.
My data is not as precise as yours by any means; however, my end result is
remarkable similar. Bases on my 6.5 years of flying my RV-6A, 180 C/S, I
flight plan for 165K and fly above 8,000 feet, prefer 8.5 to 12.5. I can
count on 7.5 GPH at the higher altitude.
Of course I frequently want to go faster, so I add RPM, up to 2600 as
required, and re-lean.
I don't pay any attention to my EGTs any more. I lean to sputter then, rich
to smooth running. This definitely yields a decrease in speed from rich of
peak.
I surmise that my slightly less fuel flow is due to my electronic ignition,
and to more leaning.
Thanks again for the good data.
Denis
> From: n6jx(at)earthlink.net
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 08:12:15 -0600 (GMT-06:00)
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, vansaircraft(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: RV-List: Specific Fuel Consumption
>
>
> Recent discussion on the RV list have touched on the topic of different engine
> / prop combinations, and the impact on performance. Tom, Kevin and other
> have pointed out that to go a given speed, a given horsepower is required, and
> it really doesn't matter what size engine you have (as long as it is big
> enough to produce the required horsepower). Along with that, to produce a
> given horsepower, a given amount of fuel is required, which is the "Specific
> Fuel Consumption" of the engine. Doing some research on this, I found that
> there actually is a fairly small range of SFC that efficient internal
> combustion engines fall into, that being .42 to .47 pounds of fuel per
> horsepower per hour. With this information, it is possible to calculate a
> power to fuel burn chart as attached below.
>
> Testing this out in my RV I have found this to be right on with the actual
> performance I am getting when compared to the Lycoming power charts in my
> engine's operating manual. My plane is an RV-6A with a Fuel injected 180 hp
> Lyc O-360 and a CS prop. At 7000 feet, Running 23.5" Manifold Press and 2400
> RPM, if I lean to 8.2 Gal/hour (EGT 50 degrees lean of peak), I get 164kts TAS
> and if I richen the mixture to 9.8 Gal/Hour (EGT 75 degrees rich of peak), I
> get 172kts TAS. Looking in my Lyc manual at the power charts, these figures
> align pretty well with the % power vs fuel flow charts in the manual. Given
> this, it can be seen that Man. Press and RPM do not always equal horsepower.
> Horsepower is RPM and Torque, and by varing the fuel load, we can vary the
> torque at any given RPM and thus vary the horsepower. With a fixed pitch
> prop, as you adjusted the mixture, the RPM would change, but with a Constant
> Speed prop, the pitch of the prop changes, which is not reflected !
> on any guages other than fuel flow.
>
> This makes it interesting to set a speed. Since I can't run the mixture
> between 50 degrees lean and 75 degrees rich of peak, and as the throttle is
> already wide open, 172kts at 9.8 Gal/Hr is close to max speed at that
> altitude. To go slower than 172 but faster than 164, I must run a richer
> mixture than 9.8 Gal/Hr, so in fact I burn more fuel to go slower, which makes
> sense as a richer fuel/air mixture reduces power. So in actual practice, I
> either cruise at 172kts or at or below 164kts. If an additional column was
> added to the table below for kts speed, it would be very easy to find the best
> economy cruise. I get 17.6 nm/Gal at 172kts and 20 nm/Gal at 164kts. I
> haven't bothered to take reading at other setting yet, but will do so one of
> these days.
>
> Of course, 135hp equals 75% power in a 180hp motor, 85% power in a 160hp and
> only 50% power in a 270hp rocket. So it is quite reasonable that a formation
> of RVs flying together will be close to each other in fuel burn regardless of
> engine size, the biggest variable being the ability of the pilot to lean the
> engine to the best possible fuel/air mixture. Of couse differences in
> airframe drag and prop efficiency will aslo play a role, but probably pretty
> minor given the same aircraft model and a reasonably efficient prop.
>
> Would appreciate any feedback on these numbers and how other feel they fit
> with their expierence.
>
>
> Mel Jordan
> Tucson
>
>
> Specific Fuel Consumption
>
> SFC Min Max
> LB/HP 0.4300 0.4600
> GAL/HP 0.0717 0.0767
>
> Fuel Weight 6 LB/GAL
>
> HP % PWR GAL/HR GAL/HR
> 180 100% Min Max
> 50 28% 3.58 3.83
> 55 31% 3.94 4.22
> 60 33% 4.30 4.60
> 65 36% 4.66 4.98
> 70 39% 5.02 5.37
> 75 42% 5.38 5.75
> 80 44% 5.73 6.13
> 85 47% 6.09 6.52
> 90 50% 6.45 6.90
> 95 53% 6.81 7.28
> 100 56% 7.17 7.67
> 105 58% 7.53 8.05
> 110 61% 7.88 8.43
> 115 64% 8.24 8.82
> 120 67% 8.60 9.20
> 125 69% 8.96 9.58
> 130 72% 9.32 9.97
> 135 75% 9.68 10.35
> 140 78% 10.03 10.73
> 145 81% 10.39 11.12
> 150 83% 10.75 11.50
> 155 86% 11.11 11.88
> 160 89% 11.47 12.27
> 165 92% 11.83 12.65
> 170 94% 12.18 13.03
> 175 97% 12.54 13.42
> 180 100% 12.90 13.80
> 185 103% 13.26 14.18
> 190 106% 13.62 14.57
> 195 108% 13.98 14.95
> 200 111% 14.33 15.33
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shemp" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Carb Vs Fuel Injection |
Im not touching the debate about fuel inj vs carb, however, I can tell you
about my exp with putting a -7 fuel inj kit in a -6. I bought the AP/Vans
fuel inj pump/filter kit that fits the -7. It took a bit of modifying but
still was worth the time savings. I just ran my fuel line along the outside
of the right center floor angle. The 7 has a floor in the center and runs
it under that. You can do the same but it was recommended not to run it up
the center because of the potential problems with running a fuel line under
the battery. If your battery is not in the standard place, just run the
fuel line directly up the middle to the firewall.
Good luck with the decision.
on with the onslaught
Jeff Dowling
RV-6a/ 2 hours
Chicago/ Louisville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | LightSpeed Engineering Ignition coil mounting |
Hello,
I am trying to install the LSE Plasma II ignition coils that were shipped with
my Aerosport dynafocal O-360 engine and I
need to know if it is ok to remove the engine hoist/lift bracket and install the
LSE bracket in its place. As near as I can
tell, that is the only place it can go.
OK?
If Ok, is there any problems with removing and retorque the one bolt involved or
do I have a specific procedure I have to
go through as it is a case bolt?
Thanks,
Vince Himsl
Moscow, ID
RV8 Finish
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Brown" <scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com> |
| Subject: | Christian Inverted Oil System |
Listers,
I have a Christian Inverted Oil system on my RV4. I do not fly inverted so
much that I would need such a thing. If anyone is interested in this system
send emails to: scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com
Cheers!
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Jacko" <vicwj(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Specific Fuel Consumption |
Mel, What would the addition of twin CDI ignition systems do to your
performance figures as these systems would increase the efficiency of the
engine especially if you ran a little less manifold pressure to allow more
than 25/28 degrees of spark advance?
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: <n6jx(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Specific Fuel Consumption
>
> Recent discussion on the RV list have touched on the topic of different
engine / prop combinations, and the impact on performance. Tom, Kevin and
other have pointed out that to go a given speed, a given horsepower is
required, and it really doesn't matter what size engine you have (as long as
it is big enough to produce the required horsepower). Along with that, to
produce a given horsepower, a given amount of fuel is required, which is the
"Specific Fuel Consumption" of the engine. Doing some research on this, I
found that there actually is a fairly small range of SFC that efficient
internal combustion engines fall into, that being .42 to .47 pounds of fuel
per horsepower per hour. With this information, it is possible to calculate
a power to fuel burn chart as attached below.
>
> Testing this out in my RV I have found this to be right on with the actual
performance I am getting when compared to the Lycoming power charts in my
engine's operating manual. My plane is an RV-6A with a Fuel injected 180
hp Lyc O-360 and a CS prop. At 7000 feet, Running 23.5" Manifold Press and
2400 RPM, if I lean to 8.2 Gal/hour (EGT 50 degrees lean of peak), I get
164kts TAS and if I richen the mixture to 9.8 Gal/Hour (EGT 75 degrees rich
of peak), I get 172kts TAS. Looking in my Lyc manual at the power charts,
these figures align pretty well with the % power vs fuel flow charts in the
manual. Given this, it can be seen that Man. Press and RPM do not always
equal horsepower. Horsepower is RPM and Torque, and by varing the fuel
load, we can vary the torque at any given RPM and thus vary the horsepower.
With a fixed pitch prop, as you adjusted the mixture, the RPM would change,
but with a Constant Speed prop, the pitch of the prop changes, which is not
reflected !
> on any guages other than fuel flow.
>
> This makes it interesting to set a speed. Since I can't run the mixture
between 50 degrees lean and 75 degrees rich of peak, and as the throttle is
already wide open, 172kts at 9.8 Gal/Hr is close to max speed at that
altitude. To go slower than 172 but faster than 164, I must run a richer
mixture than 9.8 Gal/Hr, so in fact I burn more fuel to go slower, which
makes sense as a richer fuel/air mixture reduces power. So in actual
practice, I either cruise at 172kts or at or below 164kts. If an
additional column was added to the table below for kts speed, it would be
very easy to find the best economy cruise. I get 17.6 nm/Gal at 172kts and
20 nm/Gal at 164kts. I haven't bothered to take reading at other setting
yet, but will do so one of these days.
>
> Of course, 135hp equals 75% power in a 180hp motor, 85% power in a 160hp
and only 50% power in a 270hp rocket. So it is quite reasonable that a
formation of RVs flying together will be close to each other in fuel burn
regardless of engine size, the biggest variable being the ability of the
pilot to lean the engine to the best possible fuel/air mixture. Of couse
differences in airframe drag and prop efficiency will aslo play a role, but
probably pretty minor given the same aircraft model and a reasonably
efficient prop.
>
> Would appreciate any feedback on these numbers and how other feel they fit
with their expierence.
>
>
> Mel Jordan
> Tucson
>
>
> Specific Fuel Consumption
>
> SFC Min Max
> LB/HP 0.4300 0.4600
> GAL/HP 0.0717 0.0767
>
> Fuel Weight 6 LB/GAL
>
> HP % PWR GAL/HR GAL/HR
> 180 100% Min Max
> 50 28% 3.58 3.83
> 55 31% 3.94 4.22
> 60 33% 4.30 4.60
> 65 36% 4.66 4.98
> 70 39% 5.02 5.37
> 75 42% 5.38 5.75
> 80 44% 5.73 6.13
> 85 47% 6.09 6.52
> 90 50% 6.45 6.90
> 95 53% 6.81 7.28
> 100 56% 7.17 7.67
> 105 58% 7.53 8.05
> 110 61% 7.88 8.43
> 115 64% 8.24 8.82
> 120 67% 8.60 9.20
> 125 69% 8.96 9.58
> 130 72% 9.32 9.97
> 135 75% 9.68 10.35
> 140 78% 10.03 10.73
> 145 81% 10.39 11.12
> 150 83% 10.75 11.50
> 155 86% 11.11 11.88
> 160 89% 11.47 12.27
> 165 92% 11.83 12.65
> 170 94% 12.18 13.03
> 175 97% 12.54 13.42
> 180 100% 12.90 13.80
> 185 103% 13.26 14.18
> 190 106% 13.62 14.57
> 195 108% 13.98 14.95
> 200 111% 14.33 15.33
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com> |
| Subject: | Lord Engine Mount Torque |
Hello,
In setting the torque for the "Lord" mounts on my dynafocal engine, I have encountered
a problem.
I cannot get a torque wrench on the nut so have it on the bolt itself. With this
arrangement, the instructions say that
you can increase the torque on a castle nut (310) by the amount of drag on the
bolt when trying to align the bolt hole.
Given above, is the true torque on the castle nut equal to the total torque minus
the drag (measured)?
For numbers: Total torque on wrench = 60 ft/lbs. & measured drag=30 ft/lbs. This
implies that the true torque on the an310
is 60-30= 30 ft/lbs. Is this correct?
Thanks,
Vince Himsl
RV-8 SB Finish
RV8432 (rsvrd)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Specific Fuel Consumption |
Good testing I guess as long as it is for one aircraft and one engine
etc. I don't think it works well comparing one plane to another for
several reasons.
Even if both have Lycoming O360A1A's for example. One has 60 hours the
other 1200. The older engine is looser so less power is lost to moving the
engine parts. I picture the two engines on stands driven as if they were
pumps. One is loose and consumes less power - seems reasonable. If the
loose engine has poor compression then maybe it puts out less power.
I saw somewhere once that a 180hp Lyc puts out between 171hp and
189hp. That is, each engine coming off the production line will be within
+- 5% of the rated hp.! So one guy has a 160hp O320 that puts out 105%
and the other has an O360 that puts out 95% - that makes it 168 and
171. Now suppose the guy with the O320 has the newer fat wheelpants or a
better exhaust system or a prop pitched a hair off towards the speed side?
It is all very complicated.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Jacko" <vicwj(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LightSpeed Engineering Ignition coil mounting |
Vince, I installed the LSE the exact same way on a Lycoming 0-235 L2C with
no difficulty. You can still apply the same torque as before using a
slightly longer bolt with steel washers against the brackets.
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: RV-List: LightSpeed Engineering Ignition coil mounting
>
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to install the LSE Plasma II ignition coils that were shipped
with my Aerosport dynafocal O-360 engine and I
> need to know if it is ok to remove the engine hoist/lift bracket and
install the LSE bracket in its place. As near as I can
> tell, that is the only place it can go.
>
> OK?
>
> If Ok, is there any problems with removing and retorque the one bolt
involved or do I have a specific procedure I have to
> go through as it is a case bolt?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Vince Himsl
> Moscow, ID
> RV8 Finish
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Prop Indexing |
I've been watching this thread with a lot of interest.
Would the reduction of vibration have something to
do with the prop's relationship to the airframe when it
receives the major portion of the power pulse from
the engine? Perhaps the effect on the prop from the
cowling, canopy, wing roots, and nose gear (and vise-
versa) when the prop is reacting to the power surge
might be part of the mystery. I dunno...
Joe -- RV-9A, N95JJ, finishing kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | n6jx(at)earthlink.net |
| Subject: | RE: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption] |
Trampas,
I agree with your points. An engine is a big air pump. At a given MP and RPM,
it is going to ingest a set quantity of air. If we hit the perfect stociometric
fuel/air ratio, we are going to deliver the max possible power. Thus, if
one sets a specific MP and RPM and fuel/air ratio, power is also predictiable.
Modern automobile engines do this very effectively as you point out using
mass airflow sensors, O2 sensors and computers. Things most of us don't have
in our RVs.
With our aircraft engines, we have to control mixture and my post was intended
to point out that by looking at the fuel flow it is possible to estimate horsepower
being produced, which in turn can be converted to % of power depending on
the size engine you start out with. I agree that the further away from the
optimum stociometric ratio you get, the less accurate this becomes, so if you
pump in a lot more fuel than you can effectivly combust, you will not get any
additional power, and will in fact get less power. I am not really sure about
the impact of running either slightly rich of peak or slightlylean of peak
(+75 to -50) on the power output per gallon used. So this weekend I will try
an experiment. I will set up a TAS of 164kts by running wide open throttle,
2400 rpm and lean of peak and record fuel flow, and then keep the RPM at 2400,
and find the MP required to get 164kts at 75 degrees rich of peak, and see what
fuel flow results. Going 164kts will take the same horsepower, so any change
in fuel flow will be due to efficiencies in the combustion of the fuel.
Mel Jordan
RV-6A
Tucson
Subject: RE: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption]
From: Trampas (tstern(at)nc.rr.com)
Date: Fri Jan 09 - 7:17 AM
The way I view things is that fuel produces power. Therefore based on your
engine's efficiency the amount of fuel you burn is proportional to the
horsepower, with in reason. By reason I mean if you dump all gas and no air,
you get no power...
So if we go back to engine theory and say that we want to have a 14.7:1 air
fuel ratio, then by measuring the air entering the engine we can calculate
the fuel burned, again assuming 14.7:1. So to calculate the mass of the air
entering the engine we can get close by measuring the RPMs, Air temperature,
Barometer pressure, and MAP, this is called speed density calculations.
Now what most people do for calculating percentage of horsepower is realize
that the air temperature and barometer pressure cancel out, removed from
equation. Thus you can estimate percentage of horsepower based on MAP and
RPM, again assuming constant fuel mixture. This the problem, if you change
air fuel ratio/mixture you change the maximum horsepower and thus you may
still read 75% horsepower but your 100% horsepower level may have changed.
A better method would be to calculate real horsepower estimates. That is by
measuring the fuel flow, and the air flow you can actually calculate the
fuel to air ratio. Then by knowing the efficiency of the engine you can get
a pretty good estimate of real horsepower, however the efficiency of the
engine will be variable and not easy to estimate, thus you will always have
some inaccuracies. Even better is to use a fuel injected engine with an O2
sensor such that the computer maintains a constant air fuel ratio.
Regards,
Trampas Stern
Stern Technologies
4321 Waterwheel Dr
Raleigh NC 27606
919-832-8441 Ext. 12 (voice)
919-832-8441 (fax)
www.sterntech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
I am planning on adding a second Com radio to my RV-6A for IFR redundancy
and would like any feedback, good or bad, from anyone using the Microair 760
Com radio. I am worried about the low 3 1/2 watt Tx power and repair
service.
I have considered Becker AR4201 (5 watt tx) but it is longer and requires
moving wire bundle and cutting a hole in the sub panel.
Have also been watching the Xcom 760 web site, sounds great but shipping
date has slipped almost a year and it is still not approved and available.
Thanks
George in Langley BC.
6A - 230 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
George,
I have a Microair 760 as my only radio, it is a great performer. I have a bent
whip antenna mounted on bottom of the plane with about a 4' coax cable run to
it. I have never had any problems being able to reach ATC. During my flight
test I called up from as far out as 75 NM and the radio was reported loud and
clear. While flying x-country with another RV who has a Garmin gps-com I can
pick up ATIS several miles farther out than he can.
Hope this helps,
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids
RV-8 120 hours
In a message dated 1/9/2004 12:58:37 PM Eastern Standard Time, "GMC"
writes:
>
>
>I am planning on adding a second Com radio to my RV-6A for IFR redundancy
>and would like any feedback, good or bad, from anyone using the Microair 760
>Com radio. I am worried about the low 3 1/2 watt Tx power and repair
>service.
>
>I have considered Becker AR4201 (5 watt tx) but it is longer and requires
>moving wire bundle and cutting a hole in the sub panel.
>Have also been watching the Xcom 760 web site, sounds great but shipping
>date has slipped almost a year and it is still not approved and available.
>
>Thanks
>George in Langley BC.
>6A - 230 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: propeller indexing and engine smoothness |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Randy, I noticed on my new Hartzell that it can only be mounted one way (or 180
degrees the other way) as you have found. The difference with the Sensenich
IIRC is that the spacer has recesses of equal size on all 6 bolt positions so
you can mount it any way you want in 60 degree increments...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D Sensenich sold, Hartzell ready to mount...
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy@rv-8.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: propeller indexing and engine smoothness
This is a very interesting concept but I'm wondering how you guys are doing
this? The prop flange on my O-360 A1A has raised bosses on four of the six
holes that are designed to mate up with recesses on the prop hub. The two
that don't are 180 opposite each other. I've had a Hartzell and three
different Whirl Wind propellers on there and there's only two possible
positions to install it and they are 180 degrees apart so you don't have any
way to "index" the prop as is being described. Please clue me in, and what
do the engine building gurus such as Aero Sport Power or Lycon have to say
about all this?
BTW, here's some additional trivia for you: My Hartzell stopped at
10:00/4:00 as viewed from the front just like everyone elses. Then I
installed the Whirl Wind 200C and later the 200RV and they both stopped at
9:00/3:00 (dead horizontal). I asked WW about this and guessed it had
something to do with the mass of the propeller and he laughed. Seems
McCauley, who makes the hub for these two models, just indexes it in a
different place than Hartzell and he didn't know why. Hmm, maybe this is one
reason why the WW props feel smoother?
Inquiring minds want to know more.
Randy Lervold
RV-8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A |
In a message dated 1/8/04 12:52:14 PM Pacific Standard Time,
mrobert569(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< I replaced the antenna that came with the ELT with a shorter wire-wound
rubber covered ELT antenna >>
Mike: Where did you get the shorter ELT antenna you used? Thanks.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, firewall forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | propeller indexing: Lycoming response |
Me: "Good afternoon, John. I am calling to ask if there are any technical concerns
with re-indexing a fixed-pitch metal prop to be at 3 and 9 o'clock at TDC
on an O-320 mounted on an RV, to reduce perceived vibration levels."
John at Textron.Lycoming tech support: "No."
Me: "There was some concern on our internet RV List that this might cause some
unforseen vibration issues with the prop or the engine..."
John (patiently): "No."
Unless Ed Z. from Sensenich weighs in here, pulling his hair out and screaming,
I am going to consider this the final word on the matter- indexing is a matter
of personal preference :-) I like the suggestion that a prop balancer with
time on his hands run some field tests for us and post the results.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Hine" <joehine(at)rogers.com> |
Hi George
I don't have a Microair myself but the helicopter I was a passenger in at
work a lot had one as a second radio and they were very happy with it. The
helicopter has been traded (C-GMPT, great buy for someone....always well
looked after). I have sent and received on the radio and couldn't tell the
difference with the main radio. No complaints from any other stations
either. Mostly used to monitor though.
Joe Hine
C-FYTQ RV4
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of GMC
Subject: RV-List: Microair 760
I am planning on adding a second Com radio to my RV-6A for IFR redundancy
and would like any feedback, good or bad, from anyone using the Microair 760
Com radio. I am worried about the low 3 1/2 watt Tx power and repair
service.
I have considered Becker AR4201 (5 watt tx) but it is longer and requires
moving wire bundle and cutting a hole in the sub panel.
Have also been watching the Xcom 760 web site, sounds great but shipping
date has slipped almost a year and it is still not approved and available.
Thanks
George in Langley BC.
6A - 230 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <klwerner(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption] |
Mike,
Would a product called "TCP" (a Lead Scavenger) solve this slow death of an O2-sensor?
Does anyone on this list have any practical experience with "TCP" ?
I sure would like to hear any Pro's & Con's about its usage with 100LL.
Thanks,
Konrad
>>>
They don't die with leaded fuel use, they just react slower and slower over
time. Too slow to be useful for engine control computers, particularly for
smog control. If you are using an O2 sensor to drive an air/fuel ratio
meter on your panel for visual indication of A/F ratio it will still
work. After a while it may react too slow for your personal
preference. Then you just swap out the sensor for a new one.
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
I also have the Microair 760 as my only radio and the range, transmission and
reception qualities are very crisp and clear. The built in sidetone intercom
however, is another matter. With it you have a hot mike which picks up the
ambient noise in the cockpit making communications with my passenger almost
impossible. I've ordered the Flighttech two place noise eliminating intercom.
Walt Shipley RV-8A 56 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing - reply |
My hub has an enlarged lug that matched an enlarged hole on my flywheel.
This foces the flywheel to be installed in only one possible position which
makes the TDC mark on the flywheel correct. I'm not sure but I don't think
the enlargement extends beyond the thickness of the flywheel. Either way
the prop is not next in line but the extention is.
On my assembly the prop can be positioned in any position on the extension.
The prop isn't mounted directly to the flange. There is a flywheel,
extension, (3) 1/8" spacers, and a spinner plate before the prop.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flies great!
>From: P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing - reply
>Date: Fri, 09 Jan 2004 09:25:27 -0500
>
>
>(for the archives and future searching....thanks Jim...)
>
>
>In a message dated 1/8/04 7:12:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
>pcondon(at)mitre.org writes:
>
> Also, a few days ago someone related to the group how the longest
>drive
> lug is used to determin the proper prop placement on the crank
>flange.
> That didn't make sence either because the longest lug is STILL the
> longest lug once you put the flywheel on......right...??
>
>
>The "longest lug"??? I believe the lugs are the same length. One of
>them has a "step" which lines up with the O marked hole on the
>starter ring gear. I do not believe that it has anything to do with
>prop indexing, other than to allow a starting point at which to
>determine
>when #1 cylinder is at TDC. The physical indexing is determined by how
>you install the spinner backplate.
>
>Jim Nice
>WA State
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Jacko" <vicwj(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
George, I had good performance with the Microair. I would not worry about
the 3 1/2 watts power output. Just put a high quality antenna and coax on
it and keep the lead- in short. You may want to consider using the antenna
now mounted on the airplane for this new radio and use your new antenna for
your current radio if this shortens the lead-in!
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Microair 760
>
>
> I am planning on adding a second Com radio to my RV-6A for IFR redundancy
> and would like any feedback, good or bad, from anyone using the Microair
760
> Com radio. I am worried about the low 3 1/2 watt Tx power and repair
> service.
>
> I have considered Becker AR4201 (5 watt tx) but it is longer and requires
> moving wire bundle and cutting a hole in the sub panel.
> Have also been watching the Xcom 760 web site, sounds great but shipping
> date has slipped almost a year and it is still not approved and available.
>
> Thanks
> George in Langley BC.
> 6A - 230 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Jacko" <vicwj(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
I agree on the use of the intercom provision however a simple push on/off
switch to ground takes care of this problem. If you want to talk to the
other passenger just bump the button once then bump it again when finished.
A similar switch could be place on the control stick.
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: <RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair 760
>
> I also have the Microair 760 as my only radio and the range, transmission
and
> reception qualities are very crisp and clear. The built in sidetone
intercom
> however, is another matter. With it you have a hot mike which picks up the
> ambient noise in the cockpit making communications with my passenger
almost
> impossible. I've ordered the Flighttech two place noise eliminating
intercom.
>
> Walt Shipley RV-8A 56 hrs
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
><< I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I usually end
>up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first time.
So, you should always buy high quality tools. Most builders should not,
however. I get on my high horse about these high quality tool admonitions
because I believe that many prospective builders are put off by them.
Some of my training as an Industrial Engineer involved tool design. Just
defining what quality means is a giant task. I'll write more on that if
anyone cares. For now, I'll just tell what I did and lived to tell about it.
I built my RV6a with some used tools, some cheap tools, some expensive
tools and some home made tools. I am not wealthy so I have to allocate my
funds with care. My plane N7HK first flew in December 2000. Since then
has flown over 160 hours with three trips to Oshkosh with ZERO problems due
to less than the best tools. I suffered no health impairment etc
either. I did save a bunch of money so that I may soon be able to paint
and finish details on my plane.
I bought the cheap little Terry right angle drill rather than the really
nice expensive ones. Savings - about $125. Will the Terry last as
long? I am sure it will not but so what, it lasted thru N7HK and looks as
if it could last thru another. My alignment tools for installing the
ailerons and elevators are bent nails.
I would liked to have had a small sheet metal brake but have been
frightened off by their cheapness, maybe rightfully so. I had the use of a
50 inch Tensmith. Doing it again I will get a air powered squeezer - a
used one will do. I might bid on one of the little CP drills but my
cheapies worked fine. As an experienced builder, I know what I need, however.
If I had more money to toss into it, I'd probably buy better tools. They
can be resold when you are done. One air drill and several cheap electrics
will have a good payback.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Specific Fuel Consumption |
If you have not already, I recommend reading John Deakin's
"Pelican's Perch" articles here:
http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182146-1.html
He's written a lot about getting the most out of your
aviation engine. Start from the bottom of the list
and work your way up.
He explains how to run your engine *lean* of peak,
why it is good, and explains why we have always heard
that LOP is bad.
Major issues for him are good EGT gauges, and good injectors.
Worth the effort to read these articles!
Mickey
>I don't pay any attention to my EGTs any more. I lean to sputter then, rich
>to smooth running. This definitely yields a decrease in speed from rich of
>peak.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
James,
My RV-6A has an O-320D1A engine with a Sensenich prop....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
135+ hrs since Aug 03
Fred,
What engine/prop combination was this?
James
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob U." <rv3(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption] |
Trampas wrote:
>
>Your right O2 sensors will not work with 100LL, but they will work with
>unleaded pump gas. Of course most 'traditional' airplane engines do not use
>pump gas and O2 sensors. However if you have a conversion engine...
>
>Regards,
>Trampas Stern
>
Flying cross country, good luck getting QUALITY mogas at the majority of
airports for an auto 'conversion'. Where mogas is available, there is a
good chance it will be old and stale. My home airport quit selling mogas
because of slow sales and such problems.
Bob - burning mogas in my 150 hp 0-320 where I can trust the source.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
Hi Guys:
I have used the Microair products in at least four different
applications with sucess every time. I have had some problems and they were
taken care of asap by the Microair folks everytime . My T-2000 trans spit the
bit and I e-mailed Microair they sent return instructions so I did that. Next
e-mail stated the trans would be replaced with a new unit right off the shelf
and that I had recieved and early model that had a bug or two.
However I agree with the comment that the hot mike intercom is very
far from tolerable in the cockpit. Hope this helps with you pick of equipment
Pat Patterson RV-10
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Bower" <rvbuilder(at)hotmail.com> |
Gang,
If this gets through, please accept my apologies for junking up your
in-baskets. If not, I am having problems. I'll wait and see if this
bounces back to me.
Jim Bower
St. Louis
RV-6A - Fuselage (Finish kit on order)
Tired of slow downloads? Compare online deals from your local high-speed
providers now. https://broadband.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
Fred: In response to your post about prop indexing, after reading the many
post about repositioning prop to a different position. Yesterday I
experimented with my 0-320B1A with a Senenich -79 prop. Prior to moving
to the position of 8&2:00 O'clock my prop was at the normal position of
1&5:00. I had a vibration at 1,000, 1,500, 2,000 RPM. Above this value it
was smooth. After moving to the position of 8:00 o'clock the vibration went
away at 1,000, 1,500 and 2,000 RPM. But above 2100 it was very vibration
prone, at 2400 it was really shaking to the point I did not like the
outcome. Today I reset to the original position, all things considered my
thinking as the engine is timed to fire at 25degrees before top dead center
on # 1 the rotation of the propeller is very close to the Horizontal
position we were seeking. I talked to Ed Zelky at Senenich and his
engineers said as far as they are concerned it should not make any
difference about the prop as it is balanced. I think in my case when I
have the prop balanced all my vibration will go away with the prop set at
the standard position. This is my ideas only and what I discovered , I hope
this does not start a negative flame. It seems every case is a little
different.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602-RV flying 290HRS.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop indexing
>
> James,
>
> My RV-6A has an O-320D1A engine with a Sensenich prop....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-6A N926RV
> 135+ hrs since Aug 03
>
> Fred,
> What engine/prop combination was this?
> James
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption] |
Re: O2 sensors, leaded fuel, and TCP
At 11:20 2004-01-09, you wrote:
>
>Mike,
>Would a product called "TCP" (a Lead Scavenger) solve this slow death of
>an O2-sensor?
>
>Does anyone on this list have any practical experience with "TCP" ?
>I sure would like to hear any Pro's & Con's about its usage with 100LL.
>
>Thanks,
>Konrad
No idea, never used the stuff. I've been running a 150 HP O-320 for 200
hours on 100LL and a couple dozen hours on 130 (high lead) when 110LL
wasn't available and never had any problems.
Mike
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
> >>>
>They don't die with leaded fuel use, they just react slower and slower over
>time. Too slow to be useful for engine control computers, particularly for
>smog control. If you are using an O2 sensor to drive an air/fuel ratio
>meter on your panel for visual indication of A/F ratio it will still
>work. After a while it may react too slow for your personal
>preference. Then you just swap out the sensor for a new one.
>
>Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
>13B in gestation mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | EIS-4000 Fuel Senders |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
All,
I've decided on the Grand Rapids EIS-4000 for fuel monitoring, and I was needing
some help on the fuel sender decision. I think I am going to go with the Princeton
capacitive probes that GRT sells, but I am having a hard time understanding
what they look like. Does anyone have a picture of the Princeton capacitive
and the Stewart Warner float type senders for comparison? Those using the
Princeton...do they seem to be closer to the float-type or the Van's capacitive
plates in accuracy?
For others interested...I thought I'd share what I know (details below applicable
to the EIS). Order of accuracy would be as follows:
1) Van's capacitive plates - require a separate converter ($95 x 2), must be built
into tanks, plates are $60 through vans (total)
2) Princeton capacitive probes - no converters required, sell for $95 each, mount
through access plate, can be purchased pre-bent for RVs, are calibrated during
installation by filling and acknowledging levels
3) Float-type senders - cheapest ($23 per side), unit is calibrated during install,
no converters required
THanks,
Scott Haskins
7A WIngs
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
George:
There is a gal that purchased an RV-6A with a Microair that flys formation
with us. She now has the radio out of the airplane a second time to send
back to Australia for repair. Are there any others that have had problems
with this radio? This is the only one that I know of with a problem. Most
of the people that have them have had few if any problems. One bad report
like this would not keep me from purchasing one of these radio.
Wattage output is not the most important thing on range of a radio. A good
antenna installation is important but altitude is the most important factor.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,424 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Microair 760
Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:58:37 -0800
I am planning on adding a second Com radio to my RV-6A for IFR redundancy
and would like any feedback, good or bad, from anyone using the Microair 760
Com radio. I am worried about the low 3 1/2 watt Tx power and repair
service.
I have considered Becker AR4201 (5 watt tx) but it is longer and requires
moving wire bundle and cutting a hole in the sub panel.
Have also been watching the Xcom 760 web site, sounds great but shipping
date has slipped almost a year and it is still not approved and available.
Thanks
George in Langley BC.
6A - 230 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Chicago Pneumatic air drill ?? |
Hi Hal,
I understand your point of view and I agree that one doesn't necessarily
have to spend a fortune on tools to get results. I have Craftsman
instead of Snap-On hand tools, for example. I don't usually buy hand
tools out of a tub, and when I do, I'm generally sorry I did soon after.
My attitude toward tool quality is based on years of making a living
with carpentry tools. Good ones paid for themselves in time savings. The
inexpensive (read cheaply make) ones tend to make it difficult to do
high quality (or quantity) work and then break and/or hurt you. That
kind of aggravation is worth avoiding as far as I'm concerned. I'm an
admitted tool snob, but I came by it honestly.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Charter member of the tool of the week club
><< I've bought a lot of tools over the years and it seems that I
usually end
>up buying them again if I don't get high quality tools the first time.
>So, you should always buy high quality tools. Most builders should
not,
however. I get on my high horse about these high quality tool
admonitions
because I believe that many prospective builders are put off by them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Perry" <eperry(at)san.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EIS-4000 Fuel Senders |
Here's what I know...
I have the EIS4000 and use it to monitor fuel levels. I set it 120 hours ago
and it has accurately and consistently shown fuel within a gallon per tank.
I am using the S/W float senders and am very happy with this set up. For the
complexity and cost I would do it again. I get to watch the fuel disappear
and I have the alarm set to 3 gallons in either tank.
Ed Perry
RV8 180/CS
EIS4000
----- Original Message -----
From: <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Subject: RV-List: EIS-4000 Fuel Senders
>
>
> All,
>
> I've decided on the Grand Rapids EIS-4000 for fuel monitoring, and I was
needing some help on the fuel sender decision. I think I am going to go
with the Princeton capacitive probes that GRT sells, but I am having a hard
time understanding what they look like. Does anyone have a picture of the
Princeton capacitive and the Stewart Warner float type senders for
comparison? Those using the Princeton...do they seem to be closer to the
float-type or the Van's capacitive plates in accuracy?
>
> For others interested...I thought I'd share what I know (details below
applicable to the EIS). Order of accuracy would be as follows:
>
> 1) Van's capacitive plates - require a separate converter ($95 x 2), must
be built into tanks, plates are $60 through vans (total)
> 2) Princeton capacitive probes - no converters required, sell for $95
each, mount through access plate, can be purchased pre-bent for RVs, are
calibrated during installation by filling and acknowledging levels
> 3) Float-type senders - cheapest ($23 per side), unit is calibrated during
install, no converters required
>
> THanks,
> Scott Haskins
> 7A WIngs
>
> Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
> The most personalized portal on the Web!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: propeller indexing: Lycoming response |
> Unless Ed Z. from Sensenich weighs in here, pulling his hair out and
screaming, I am going to consider this the final word on the matter-
indexing is a matter of personal preference :-) I like the suggestion that
a prop balancer with time on his hands run some field tests for us and post
the results.
>
> -Bill B
Bill & List:
When we re-indexed the RV-8 prop I reported on last week we had a balancer
and took the following readings:
The prop had been previously balanced to .05 IPS with 9 grams of weight.
This is a low compression O-360 with the standard fixed pitch Sensanich
metal prop mounted on Van's extension.
First run for base line .04 IPS (this is considered very good)
Second run, weight removed .09 IPS
Third run after re-indexing to align blades with crank throws per Sky Ranch
Manual .05 IPS. (no weights)
As indicated previously this airplane exhibited iritating vibrations to the
owner and while the balance readings from the front of the engine did not
show significant improvement, the pilots subjective judgement of the
airframe vibrations in flight was significantly improved.
As indicated by others constant speed props can not be re-indexed (other
than 180 degrees) without removing and re-installilng the crankshaft drive
bushings in a new location. With the warnings against this in both Hartzell
and Lycoming tech data I would not recommend doing this without better
information on the potential problems this may produce.
I understand that anything below .6 IPS is considered acceptable per FAA
standards so in the above case all tests at least with our low tech balancer
were in the "very good" category. I can't offer an explanation why the
percieved inflight vibrations were so much improved with no significant
change to the balance readings.
Dick Sipp
RV4 250DS
RV10 110DV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Perry" <pperryrv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Prop Spacers? |
You're right Konrad.......tough crowd.
It's been one of those long days where thinking isn't working anymore.
To make sure nobody does what I wrote let me correct myself and try again...
Deep breath and here it goes-
hub
flywheel
flywheel harmonic balancer support disc(Mark Landol type)
extension
rear spinner bulkhead
prop
(3) 1/8" spacers to compensate for thin sensenich wood prop
forward spinner bulkhead
crush plate
bolts
and a spinner to cover it all up!
Point is the prop doesn't bolt direct to the hub and should be effected by
the enlarged lug.
Pat Perry
Dallas, PA
RV-4 N154PK Flies great!
>From: <klwerner(at)comcast.net>
>To:
>Subject: Prop Spacers?
>Date: Fri, 9 Jan 2004 13:07:15 -0700
>
>On my assembly the prop can be positioned in any position on the extension.
> The prop isn't mounted directly to the flange. There is a flywheel,
>extension, (3) 1/8" spacers, and a spinner plate before the prop.
>
>Dear Perry,
>Why are there "3" 1/8" spacers in addition to the prop extension?
>I thought the prop should be in direct contact with the extension.
>Konrad
Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie & Tupper England <cengland(at)netdoor.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Drill bit for cutting lightening holes in aluminum 1" |
and bigger
Will & Lynda Allen wrote:
>
>I need to cut lightening holes in some spacers for the wing and need to buy
>some drill bits for doing this. What can anyone recommend for drilling 1"
>and bigger holes into aluminum? I saw someone had an adjustable bit on a
>web site but don't remember where I saw it and what it was. I can't seem
>find anything that would work at Lowe's or Sears.
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>-Will Allen
>
>North Bend, Wa
>
>RV8 wings
>
If you don't like the flycutter idea, find the nearest air conditioning
supply house & take a look at their circle cutter. It looks like a beam
compass but it uses a rotary cutting drill bit (like the 'Roto-zip'
tool) to do the cutting. These tools are made to cut sheet steel, so
aluminum should be a piece of cake.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Christian Inverted Oil System |
In a message dated 1/9/2004 8:55:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
scottbrown(at)precisionjet.com writes:
I have a Christian Inverted Oil system on my RV4. I do not fly inverted so
much that I would need such a thing.
Do you also happen to have an agnostic one?
GV (RV-6A N1GV flying 675 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
Vic, I realize you can use PTT switches (or even toggles, for that matter)
so that in between conversations with the passenger the intercom is silent,
but what about during the conversation? Since you still have a hot mike,
doesn't it pick up ambient noise, making conversation difficult?
In my case, I have some hearing loss and nice, crisp communications are a
must.
Walt
P.S. I will post results of my flighttech intercom installation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EIS-4000 Fuel Senders |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Scott, I have an EIS-4000 with the Princeton capacitive probes, I'm not
flying yet but they were very easy to install and the calibration
procedure looks pretty straightforward. They aren't cheap but appear to
be high quality and are less likely to give you problems down the road
than the float type senders.
I can't send you any pics because mine are already installed in my tanks.
FWIW, I might have considered using Vans kit if I were still building my
tanks. It's cheaper than the Princeton probes but takes more time and
might be harder to service if you ever need to in the future. When I was
building tanks I seriously considered Vans capacitive kit but steered
away from it because at the time they said it was made to work with the
EI Fuel Quantity Indicator which was very pricey ($300 range??). Anyhow
Greg Toman has since set up the EIS-4000 so it can work with Vans kit and
so that might be the way to go for the least expensive option...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D baffles...
Subject: RV-List: EIS-4000 Fuel Senders
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
All,
I've decided on the Grand Rapids EIS-4000 for fuel monitoring, and I was
needing
some help on the fuel sender decision. I think I am going to go with the
Princeton
capacitive probes that GRT sells, but I am having a hard time
understanding
what they look like. Does anyone have a picture of the Princeton
capacitive
and the Stewart Warner float type senders for comparison? Those using
the
Princeton...do they seem to be closer to the float-type or the Van's
capacitive
plates in accuracy?
For others interested...I thought I'd share what I know (details below
applicable
to the EIS). Order of accuracy would be as follows:
1) Van's capacitive plates - require a separate converter ($95 x 2), must
be built
into tanks, plates are $60 through vans (total)
2) Princeton capacitive probes - no converters required, sell for $95
each, mount
through access plate, can be purchased pre-bent for RVs, are calibrated
during
installation by filling and acknowledging levels
3) Float-type senders - cheapest ($23 per side), unit is calibrated
during install,
no converters required
THanks,
Scott Haskins
7A WIngs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
In a message dated 1/10/04 8:11:24 AM Central Standard Time, RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com
writes:
> Since you still have a hot mike,
> doesn't it pick up ambient noise, making conversation difficult?
But don't you still have to break squelch for the sidetone/intercom to
function, and therefore no ambient noise when not talking?
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | More Starter Suff |
Howdy agin',
My O-320 has a 122 tooth ring gear and last nite I bolted up a geared
prestolite borrowed from a friend to see if it runs better than my direct-drive
Delco. Both starters have nine teeth on the pinions, but the geared starter only
engages about a third of the depth of the ring gear teeth (no, I'm not going to
run it!) Does this indicate that the geared motor came from a 149 tooth
engine?
Thanks again for all the help!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vic Jacko" <vicwj(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
The intercom with the current Microair is either on or off depending
whether you ground or un-ground the correct pin for intercom. When the pin
is grounded the intercom is live. when the pin is un-grounded the headset
is dead with no noise except what might be received on the radio receiver.
I heard of some transceiver system (can't recall) that has a squelch built
into the intercom which is part of the radio intercom system. It might be
the new Becker! anyone know ?
Yes the system is noisy when turned on but so are most other systems when
you break the squelch and talk. They all pick up cockpit, air and engine
noise. some more than others
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair 760
>
> In a message dated 1/10/04 8:11:24 AM Central Standard Time,
RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> > Since you still have a hot mike,
> > doesn't it pick up ambient noise, making conversation difficult?
>
> But don't you still have to break squelch for the sidetone/intercom to
> function, and therefore no ambient noise when not talking?
>
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV6A flap brace - big oops! |
| From: | "Brad Benson" <brad(at)notamd.com> |
Argh.
I just came in from the shop, where I discovered what appears to
be a rather large error on my part. Being a rational person, I
thought I would seek the wisdom of the group before I freak out
:-).
I have a RV6A QB, which I've recently been able to start working
on again. The last thing I did last year before taking time from
the project to finish off a basement was to attach the flap braces
to both wings and fit the flaps. Getting backing into the
project, I fit the flaps to the wings again this morning and
noticed that the flap for the left wing is not placed right;
vertically, it sits perhaps 3/8" higher than it should. I dug
out the airfoil templates, and sure enough, the flap needs to be
lowered about 3/8" at the inboard end and about 1/4" outboard.
One solution is to lower the flap brace (W-621) on the rear spar
web (W-607A). I'm concerned about doing this, however, since
new rivet holes will be needed in the rear spar and they will be
too close to the existing holes. Since I already have extra
holes in this piece anyway (from another earlier mistake...grumble
grumble grumble), I don't have a lot of confidence in this
approach.
The next solution, not one I'm really very excited about, is
replacing the rear spar web (W-607A). This is a much bigger task,
but if I have to do it I will. It looks like the hardest part of
this approach will be riveting the top inboard skin back on, since
the bottom skin is already in place. I should be able to transfer
the doublers, aileron brackets, etc. without any problems.
Thanks!
Brad Benson, Software Engineer / RV6A Builder
brad(at)notamd.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A flap brace - big oops! |
In a message dated 1/10/04 1:42:27 PM Central Standard Time, brad(at)notamd.com
writes:
> I dug
> out the airfoil templates, and sure enough, the flap needs to be
> lowered about 3/8" at the inboard end and about 1/4" outboard.
>
You ain't the first & neither wuz I! 8-) Did the same thing, drilled out
the rivets and re-positioned the brace- Ken at Van's was consulted at the time
& he said this was fine, and that you could just call all the extras
"lightening holes" This may depend of course on where and how many you mean
by
the "other" holes. Might be best to go to the mountain top on that
one.........
I'll send a photo of my F
.
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Heinrich Gerhardt" <hgerhardt(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop indexing |
I have an IO-360 A3B6D that came off of a Mooney. The thing about the
-A3B6(D) is that the prop bushings are replaced with a set that
re-indexes the prop 60deg from "normal". This was done to reduce
vibration. The original prop for the engine was a Hartzell 2-blade.
Anyone have any info on how re-indexing the prop in this manner changes
the harmonics of the whole package? I intend to use this engine in my
RV-6 with the Hartzell that Van's sells (the older version, not the new
scimitar).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
How much 2" SCAT tubing does it normally take to plumb a typical RV-4? I have an
0-320 with a 4 pipe Vetterman exhaust and a Robbins heat muff. Of course I'll
have cabin heat to the firewall and carburetor heat. Where is a good place to
get tubing?
Thanks,
Jerry Isler
RV-4 # 1070
N455J
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Starter Suff |
Hi Mark,
Is the starter gear only engaging "about one third" because it's teeth are
bottoming out in the ring gear teeth?, or is it not extending far enough out
due to design limits or because of an internal fault? If the starter gears
are the same dimensions in all respects and the starter gear is traveling
out to it's full potential?, check to see that the starter gear teeth are
not too deep in relation to the ring gear. if they are place a shim between
the starter and the mounting pad to gain full gear clearance.
Good luck,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: More Starter Suff
>
> Howdy agin',
>
> My O-320 has a 122 tooth ring gear and last nite I bolted up a geared
> prestolite borrowed from a friend to see if it runs better than my
direct-drive
> Delco. Both starters have nine teeth on the pinions, but the geared
starter only
> engages about a third of the depth of the ring gear teeth (no, I'm not
going to
> run it!) Does this indicate that the geared motor came from a 149 tooth
> engine?
>
> Thanks again for all the help!
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Needed panel and cockpit pictures |
All,
I'm finishing up a presentation (for our EAA chapter) on cockpit design and
could use any digital pictures of completed (or almost completed) cockpits
and panels. Will probably use 3-4 pictures in the slide show and will
certainly credit the photographer/builder. They do not have to be from RVs.
If fact I could use 1-2 from older cert aircraft.
Please email them to >> crowbotham(at)myeastern.com
Thanks,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
Scope out the new MSN Plus Internet Software optimizes dial-up to the max!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Jeppesen Skybound II NavCard Datawritter |
Can I use a Macintosh with Virtual PC to run the Jeppesen Skybound II
service?
What interface "cable or device" do I use for the PCMCIA slot?
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, almost there!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More Starter Suff |
Hi Jim- The gears align correctly as far as extension of the pinion- a better
way to describe this might be that they are in the same plane (geometrically<
G>) but their centers are about 1/4" too far apart- picture the following
symbols as correct gear mesh: >> , where these are more like: > > . Any
better?
The owner of the Prestolite did see my original post and called to confirm
that the starter did come from a 149 tooth engine, so we'll park all this in the
archives in case someone else runs into it!
Thanks Jim & Mike!
Mark
> Is the starter gear only engaging "about one third" because it's teeth are
> bottoming out in the ring gear teeth?, or is it not extending far enough out
> due to design limits or because of an internal fault? If the starter gears
> are the same dimensions in all respects and the starter gear is traveling
> out to it's full potential?, check to see that the starter gear teeth are
> not too deep in relation to the ring gear. if they are place a shim between
> the starter and the mounting pad to gain full gear clearance.
>
> Good luck,
>
> Jim in Kelowna
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: More Starter Suff
>
>
> >
> >Howdy agin',
> >
> >My O-320 has a 122 tooth ring gear and last nite I bolted up a geared
> >prestolite borrowed from a friend to see if it runs better than my
> direct-drive
> >Delco. Both starters have nine teeth on the pinions, but the geared
> starter only
> >engages about a third of the depth of the ring gear teeth (no, I'm not
> going to
> >run it!) Does this indicate that the geared motor came from a 149 tooth
> >engine?
> >
> >Thanks again for all the help!
> >Mark
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Microair 760 |
Reduction of background cockpit and engine noise while talking is a function of
the microphone, not the intercom.
Aircraft microphones are designed to be noise cancelling by having holes on both
side of the mike. With the mike pointed directly at your mouth and square to
your mouth, your voice is picked out of the noisy aircraft cabin.
Ronnie Brown
From: "Vic Jacko" <vicwj(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair 760
The intercom with the current Microair is either on or off depending
whether you ground or un-ground the correct pin for intercom. When the pin
is grounded the intercom is live. when the pin is un-grounded the headset
is dead with no noise except what might be received on the radio receiver.
I heard of some transceiver system (can't recall) that has a squelch built
into the intercom which is part of the radio intercom system. It might be
the new Becker! anyone know ?
Yes the system is noisy when turned on but so are most other systems when
you break the squelch and talk. They all pick up cockpit, air and engine
noise. some more than others
Vic
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Microair 760
>
> In a message dated 1/10/04 8:11:24 AM Central Standard Time,
RVEIGHTA(at)aol.com
> writes:
>
> > Since you still have a hot mike,
> > doesn't it pick up ambient noise, making conversation difficult?
>
> But don't you still have to break squelch for the sidetone/intercom to
> function, and therefore no ambient noise when not talking?
>
> Mark
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)QCBC.ORG> |
| Subject: | Re: More Starter Suff |
to get more teeth the ring gear must have a large diameter. So when you use
fewer teeth, it will have a smaller diameter and will fail to mesh.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: More Starter Suff
>
> Hi Jim- The gears align correctly as far as extension of the pinion- a
better
> way to describe this might be that they are in the same plane
(geometrically<
> G>) but their centers are about 1/4" too far apart- picture the following
> symbols as correct gear mesh: >> , where these are more like: > > .
Any
> better?
>
> The owner of the Prestolite did see my original post and called to confirm
> that the starter did come from a 149 tooth engine, so we'll park all this
in the
> archives in case someone else runs into it!
>
> Thanks Jim & Mike!
>
> Mark
>
> > Is the starter gear only engaging "about one third" because it's teeth
are
> > bottoming out in the ring gear teeth?, or is it not extending far enough
out
> > due to design limits or because of an internal fault? If the starter
gears
> > are the same dimensions in all respects and the starter gear is
traveling
> > out to it's full potential?, check to see that the starter gear teeth
are
> > not too deep in relation to the ring gear. if they are place a shim
between
> > the starter and the mounting pad to gain full gear clearance.
> >
> > Good luck,
> >
> > Jim in Kelowna
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: More Starter Suff
> >
> >
> > >
> > >Howdy agin',
> > >
> > >My O-320 has a 122 tooth ring gear and last nite I bolted up a geared
> > >prestolite borrowed from a friend to see if it runs better than my
> > direct-drive
>
> > >Delco. Both starters have nine teeth on the pinions, but the geared
> > starter only
> > >engages about a third of the depth of the ring gear teeth (no, I'm not
> > going to
> > >run it!) Does this indicate that the geared motor came from a 149
tooth
> > >engine?
> > >
> > >Thanks again for all the help!
> > >Mark
> > >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Consumption] |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel |
Consumption]
I'm on the road, with infrequent internet access, so please excuse the late
post.
Yes, the engine is a big air pump, and MP and RPM are definitely the major
factors in determining how much power is produced. But we can't ignore the
altitude. The higher the altitude the lower the exhaust back pressure, so
we get better cylinder scavenging and more power for the same MP and
RPM. For example, looking at the Lycoming O-360 power chart on curve
10350-A (this may have been replaced by a different curve in later manuals,
with slightly different powers, but the principle is the same). If I use
2400 rpm and 24" MP, and assume standard temperatures - at sea level I get
136 hp and at 5,000 ft I get 147 hp. If I look at 2500 and 20", I see 107
hp at sea level, 117 hp at 5,000 ft and 123 hp at 8,000 ft.
So, altitude matters, and those rules of thumb that purport to calculate
percent power from MP and RPM are not worth much.
Fuel flow is a much better measure of hp, as Mel originally noted. Using
fuel flow to determine power produced does assume you lean using some
repeatable technique, as the specific fuel consumption will vary depending
on whether you are at full rich, leaned to best power or leaned to max economy.
Kevin Horton
>
>Trampas,
>
>I agree with your points. An engine is a big air pump. At a given MP and
>RPM, it is going to ingest a set quantity of air. If we hit the perfect
>stociometric fuel/air ratio, we are going to deliver the max possible
>power. Thus, if one sets a specific MP and RPM and fuel/air ratio, power
>is also predictiable. Modern automobile engines do this very
>effectively as you point out using mass airflow sensors, O2 sensors and
>computers. Things most of us don't have in our RVs.
>
>With our aircraft engines, we have to control mixture and my post was
>intended to point out that by looking at the fuel flow it is possible to
>estimate horsepower being produced, which in turn can be converted to % of
>power depending on the size engine you start out with. I agree that the
>further away from the optimum stociometric ratio you get, the less
>accurate this becomes, so if you pump in a lot more fuel than you can
>effectivly combust, you will not get any additional power, and will in
>fact get less power. I am not really sure about the impact of running
>either slightly rich of peak or slightlylean of peak (+75 to -50) on the
>power output per gallon used. So this weekend I will try an
>experiment. I will set up a TAS of 164kts by running wide open throttle,
>2400 rpm and lean of peak and record fuel flow, and then keep the RPM at
>2400, and find the MP required to get 164kts at 75 degrees rich of peak,
>and see what fuel flow results. Going 164kts will take the !
>same horsepower, so any change in fuel flow will be due to efficiencies in
>the combustion of the fuel.
>
>Mel Jordan
>RV-6A
>Tucson
>
>
>Subject: RE: Percent horsepower [was Specific Fuel Consumption]
>From: Trampas (tstern(at)nc.rr.com)
>Date: Fri Jan 09 - 7:17 AM
>
>
>The way I view things is that fuel produces power. Therefore based on your
>engine's efficiency the amount of fuel you burn is proportional to the
>horsepower, with in reason. By reason I mean if you dump all gas and no air,
>you get no power...
>
>So if we go back to engine theory and say that we want to have a 14.7:1 air
>fuel ratio, then by measuring the air entering the engine we can calculate
>the fuel burned, again assuming 14.7:1. So to calculate the mass of the air
>entering the engine we can get close by measuring the RPMs, Air temperature,
>Barometer pressure, and MAP, this is called speed density calculations.
>
>Now what most people do for calculating percentage of horsepower is realize
>that the air temperature and barometer pressure cancel out, removed from
>equation. Thus you can estimate percentage of horsepower based on MAP and
>RPM, again assuming constant fuel mixture. This the problem, if you change
>air fuel ratio/mixture you change the maximum horsepower and thus you may
>still read 75% horsepower but your 100% horsepower level may have changed.
>
>A better method would be to calculate real horsepower estimates. That is by
>measuring the fuel flow, and the air flow you can actually calculate the
>fuel to air ratio. Then by knowing the efficiency of the engine you can get
>a pretty good estimate of real horsepower, however the efficiency of the
>engine will be variable and not easy to estimate, thus you will always have
>some inaccuracies. Even better is to use a fuel injected engine with an O2
>sensor such that the computer maintains a constant air fuel ratio.
>
>Regards,
>Trampas Stern
>
>Stern Technologies
>4321 Waterwheel Dr
>Raleigh NC 27606
>919-832-8441 Ext. 12 (voice)
>919-832-8441 (fax)
>www.sterntech.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More Starter Suff |
>
> > to get more teeth the ring gear must have a large diameter. So when you use
> > fewer teeth, it will have a smaller diameter and will fail to mesh.
>
>That would depend on the pitch of the teeth.
Right. Check out some stuff on gears at
www.engineersedge.com select design data then look for gear
pitch conversions on the right side.
http://www.sdp-si.com/D190/HTML/D190T28.htm nice drawing This site
is for small drive components, check their home page.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)intergate.ca> |
| Subject: | Microair 760 radio |
Thanks to everyone who responded to my question about the Microair 760 comm
radio, here is a summary of responses.
All nine were happy with performance of radio with comments such as crisp &
clear at 75 NM, and picks up ATIS farther out than Garmin GPS/COMM.
One user was 50/50 on radio, good performance but not happy with having to
send to Australia for warranty work.
Built in Intercom seems to have a problem with cockpit noise but so does my
Apollo SL-60.
I will watch progress on Xcom and if they miss their production date again I
will buy the Microair.
Thanks everyone.
George McNutt
Langley BC.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leesafur(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-3 Aileron bracket |
I've got it! I will use all three suggestions. Relive the access hole down to
the flange; install a shim and nut plate. That way if I ever have to take the
bolt out for whatever reason I don't have to worry about fumbling around with
a little shim and nut threw a little hole.
Thanks for your help I'll post a picture when I get er done that is after I
place ANOTHER ORDER for the nut plate. 8-)
Lee
Anoka MN
RV-3 wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A flap brace - big oops! |
Brad...
I made the same mistake on my -6a you describe. I chose to drill out the
entire brace and replace with a new one. That way hole spacing is not a problem.
BTW, I don't quite understand when you say your flap is 3/8" "too high"... It
should just clear the top skin by 1/32" or so. Are we talking about the same
dimension? By "too high" you must mean the flap won't even begin to fit under
the top skin... Sorry if I'm dense...
Jerry Cochran
-6a flying :) :) :)
-6a building :)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com> |
| Subject: | Engineering reference link was More Starter Suff |
At 09:56 2004-01-11, you wrote:
>
> >
> > > to get more teeth the ring gear must have a large diameter. So when
> you use
> > > fewer teeth, it will have a smaller diameter and will fail to mesh.
> >
> >That would depend on the pitch of the teeth.
>
>Right. Check out some stuff on gears at
>www.engineersedge.com select design data then look for gear
>pitch conversions on the right side.
>
>http://www.sdp-si.com/D190/HTML/D190T28.htm nice drawing This site
>is for small drive components, check their home page.
>
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
Wow, that's a great reference site. Thanks Hal. Got any more links like that?
Mike (thawing out in Portland)
Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR
13B in gestation mode
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cy Galley" <cgalley(at)QCBC.ORG> |
| Subject: | Re: More Starter Suff |
Let me go back. IF the pinion is the same pitch, then the ring gear has to
get smaller for fewer teeth which is what the person described.
----- Original Message -----
From: "kempthornes" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: More Starter Suff
>
> >
> > > to get more teeth the ring gear must have a large diameter. So when
you use
> > > fewer teeth, it will have a smaller diameter and will fail to mesh.
> >
> >That would depend on the pitch of the teeth.
>
> Right. Check out some stuff on gears at
> www.engineersedge.com select design data then look for gear
> pitch conversions on the right side.
>
> http://www.sdp-si.com/D190/HTML/D190T28.htm nice drawing This site
> is for small drive components, check their home page.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Needed panel and cockpit pictures |
Chuck,
Attached is a picture of my RV-6 panel. Feel free to use it if you'd
like. If you have any questions, let me know.
Laird Owens
So Cal
>
>All,
>
>I'm finishing up a presentation (for our EAA chapter) on cockpit design and
>could use any digital pictures of completed (or almost completed) cockpits
>and panels. Will probably use 3-4 pictures in the slide show and will
>certainly credit the photographer/builder. They do not have to be from RVs.
>If fact I could use 1-2 from older cert aircraft.
>
>Please email them to >> crowbotham(at)myeastern.com
>
>Thanks,
>
>Chuck Rowbotham
>RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | don522(at)webtv.net (Don McCallister) |
| Subject: | DAR's Familiar with RV6/6A |
Are there DAR's that have built a RV 6/6A
and where located ?- if so, please contact me on the internet address
above and phone number. Thanks.
Don McCallister RV6A N522DM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kempthornes <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Engineering reference link was More Starter Suff |
>
>Wow, that's a great reference site. Thanks Hal. Got any more links like
>that?
>Mike (thawing out in Portland)
http://www.efunda.com/formulae/formula_index.cfm
And you can certainly Google for more!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | DAR's Familiar with RV6/6A |
Don,
It would help if you shared with us the geographic area of interest. There
is a DAR list at Doug Reeves' "Van's Airforce" site.
Try clicking on this: http://65.219.228.161/dar.htm
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Don McCallister
> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 3:48 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: DAR's Familiar with RV6/6A
>
>
> Are there DAR's that have built a RV 6/6A
> and where located ?- if so, please contact me on the internet address
> above and phone number. Thanks.
> Don McCallister RV6A N522DM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Jeppesen Skybound II NavCard Datawritter |
Can I use a Macintosh with Virtual PC to run the Jeppesen Skybound II
service?
What interface "cable or device" do I use for the PCMCIA slot?
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, almost there!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "C J Heitman" <cjh(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Proprietary AOA flap switch |
Jeff,
The 2nd picture on this page: http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/fuse-1.html shows
the split collar that I made to actuate the AOA microswitch. The round
collar has a flat on one side. It can be rotated to adjust the point of
actuation.
Chris Heitman
Dousman WI
RV-9A N94ME (flying!)
http://my.execpc.com/~cjh/rv9a.html
-----Original Message-----
Anyone using the Proprietary Systems AOA unit have pictures of their
flap position switch installation?
Jeff Point
---
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Jeppesen Skybound II NavCard Datawritter |
Most Notebook computers have a PCMCIA slot. My notebook does and have added
PCMCIA adapters to both of my desktop machines. ActionTec makes the PC750
http://www.actiontec.com/support/readers/pc750.html. My Intel PIII 866 Win
98SE machine likes it but it did now want to work in my AMD XP 3000+ Win XP
Pro machine. (Win XP Pro driver did not support this manufacturer and the
manufacturer did not support XP with a driver.) Now Antec makes DataChute
PCI Internal PCMCIA Reader/Writer that works great in on this machine AMD XP
3000+. http://www.antec-inc.com/pro_details_dataIO.php?ProdID=64098
Can buy both on E-Bay but I know nothing about a Mac. The PCMCIA is
hardware. My experience with Mac has been what you buy is what you get
hardware wise. The PC has many different hardware manufacturers and as such
less standardarization than the Mac.
I have two PCMCIA hard drives that work in both machine and a SmartMedia
adapter. I purchased the SkyBound II but have not used it yet. (I have the
hardware but do not have the data service yet.) Having the PCMCIA adapter
in the desktop give me backup when the notebook does not work.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,425 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: RV-List: Jeppesen Skybound II NavCard Datawritter
Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 09:02:27 -0500
Can I use a Macintosh with Virtual PC to run the Jeppesen Skybound II
service?
What interface "cable or device" do I use for the PCMCIA slot?
Richard Reynolds, Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, almost there!
Check out the new MSN 9 Dial-up fast & reliable Internet access with prime
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A |
Jack:
How far were you from the tower when they reported receiving your
signal?
--
Tom Sargent RV-6A
Jack Lockamy wrote:
>
>Mike (and others),
>
>I used the same type ELT antenna (rubber duck) and also mounted it under the empennage
fairing, mounted facing aft off the rear bulkhead. Same results.....
tower reported LOUD and CLEAR. The antenna is there to stay. In most crashes,
the tail is likely to survive better than the fuse or wing.... IMHO.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Nellis" <mike(at)bmnellis.com> |
| Subject: | Austin Area Help |
Do anyone in the Austin area happen to have a pneumatic squeezer that I
could borrow for about an hour. I've got a couple of 3/16 rivets that
have to be squeezed and I haven't been working out lately. I would
return it the same day.
Thanks in advance.
Mike Nellis
RV-6 Fuselage N699BM
1947 Stinson 108-2 NC9666K
http://bmnellis.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sonex crash (was ELT antenna mounting RV8A) |
| From: | glenn.williams(at)businessacft.bombardier.com |
01/12/2004 07:03:54 AM
Thanks Jack:
It was/is a bad situation. However I am glad
to know your still in the "hobby". My brother was in the U.S. Airways plane
crash at Charlotte N.C. He and his wife lived although they had to have
major surgeries. And he only flies now when the military sends him
somewhere, but hates it otherwise. ( he used to love flying) I hope to
never endure a situation such as the one you, my brother and countless
others have had to go through. Hope this letter finds you well and best of
luck to you.
Regards
Glenn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Facet High Pressure? |
Question # 278:
Can the Facet fuel pump Van's sells have a failure mode where it generates
too much pressure? I poured fuel in one of my tanks last nite and turned on the
pump. It clicked loudly for about 6-8 seconds, then got much quieter and
slower as the fuel hit it. All normal, according to archives. I then looked at
my EIS to see if the pressure sender was working correctly and the display was
flashing a fuel pressure warning- it showed 29psi! I acknowledged the fault,
the display returned to the normal page and it still said 29! I immediately
shut off the pump & watched the displayed pressure drop down,(indicating the
sender is at least functioning, but I'm haven't yet checked the EIS for Aux2
scaling).
Naturally I jumped out of the plane to find gas pouring out of the airbox,
possibly at least a pint or more. I estimate the pump ran for maybe ten seconds
after it primed.
The pump is the standard little square one in Van's catalog (only model they
sell) the ES40108. I'll check with them later today, and also connect a
regular low pressure gauge to the system & check that tonight.
Any or suggestions?
Thanks as always,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6A flap brace - big oops! |
Yes, it does sound like your flap brace is located in the wrong location on
the spar web. My advice would be to drill out the rivets, reposition the
spar brace to get the airfoil shape to what you feel it should be and then
redrill the brace to the spar web.
If some of the rivet holes in the spar web are going to be too close
vertically for comfort, why not consider moving them laterally a half inch
or so to ensure there is a fresh hole with decent edge spacing. Yes, this
will leave extra unfilled holes in the web and the brace but assuming they
are clean and decently de-burred there should be no effect on strength or
service life. Adjust the spacing to have perhaps an extra rivet or two along
the brace-to-web join and that should be fine. A consult with Van's about
how many rivets are really needed in this area and the spacing of same
would be a good idea.
The extra holes in the spar web could be filled with rivets if you wanted to
for appearance purposes but this will have no practical effect
strength-wise. Messing about with the flap brace would probably do more harm
than good in this regard. FWIW, this area is simply not visible when the
flaps are installed so no need to worry about others might see later on and
only you will know the difference. Replacing the flap brace is doable but
would obviously do nothing for the holes in the spar web and would seem to
be a lot of work for a hidden appearance factor. There are cases where the
"cure" of replacing parts can be worse than leaving the problem be.
Jim Oke
RV-3, RV-6A
Winnipeg, MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brad Benson" <brad(at)notamd.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV6A flap brace - big oops!
>
> Argh.
>
> I just came in from the shop, where I discovered what appears to
> be a rather large error on my part. Being a rational person, I
> thought I would seek the wisdom of the group before I freak out
> :-).
>
> I have a RV6A QB, which I've recently been able to start working
> on again. The last thing I did last year before taking time from
> the project to finish off a basement was to attach the flap braces
> to both wings and fit the flaps. Getting backing into the
> project, I fit the flaps to the wings again this morning and
> noticed that the flap for the left wing is not placed right;
> vertically, it sits perhaps 3/8" higher than it should. I dug
> out the airfoil templates, and sure enough, the flap needs to be
> lowered about 3/8" at the inboard end and about 1/4" outboard.
>
> One solution is to lower the flap brace (W-621) on the rear spar
> web (W-607A). I'm concerned about doing this, however, since
> new rivet holes will be needed in the rear spar and they will be
> too close to the existing holes. Since I already have extra
> holes in this piece anyway (from another earlier mistake...grumble
> grumble grumble), I don't have a lot of confidence in this
> approach.
>
> The next solution, not one I'm really very excited about, is
> replacing the rear spar web (W-607A). This is a much bigger task,
> but if I have to do it I will. It looks like the hardest part of
> this approach will be riveting the top inboard skin back on, since
> the bottom skin is already in place. I should be able to transfer
> the doublers, aileron brackets, etc. without any problems.
>
> Thanks!
> Brad Benson, Software Engineer / RV6A Builder
> brad(at)notamd.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | 4 tank RV-8 question |
A friend of mine was asked to install 4 tanks, 2 extra outboard, in a RV-8
for an IFR Commuter for a N.D. to Texas mission. NO Acro. I know this has
been discussed, or done, any info would be appreciated. I will forward the
responses to him.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
I am writing an article for IFR magazine about all the affordable sexy stuff
we have that the spam cans don't. I am looking for a hi-res picture of a
really hi-tech panel. It would not have to be RV. An emphasis on
non-certified avionics, autopilot, engine monitoring would be best.
Send them to me directly at dougr(at)petroblend.com
Tailwinds,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Meske <rmeske@gcfn.org> (SquirrelMail authenticated user rmeske) by www.gcfn.org with HTTP; Mon, |
12 Jan 2004 10:26:51.-0500(at)matronics.com (EST)
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting BAD CHOICE |
Just thought I'd pipe in and say, this bothers me, and should others:
PLEASE do NOT encourage others to install the ELT antennas in the empenage
fairing. Even though it can be done, it is not a wise choice. If there
are any HAM operators out there, they'll back me up on the facts.
First of all;
If, and when you really need this ELT, . . you will certainly want to be
heard, and found quickly.
Second of all;
Mounting the ELT antenna in this location severly limits your output signal
strength. Consider if you crash, you will be on the ground, and maybe in a
gully of valley somewhere. In this case, you'll need all of the signal
strength you can muster to be heard and found quickly. The frequencies
that the ELT uses are mostly line of site communication. The closest tower
or FSS will most likely be far away. The only person(s) that will hear a
weak signal will be the guys that normally fly in the air. Even they need
a good signal to trip their ELT receiving alarm.
If you study up on antennas, you'll quickly find out that an antenna needs
a good ground plane to work against. Mounting an antenna in the empenage
fairing does not cut it here. ALSO, the surrounding aircraft frame acts
like a cage keeping most of the signal strength within the tail section of
the aircraft. It's almost like building an antenna inside a bird cage, . .
or like keeping all of the RF inside our microwaves to exaggerate a
little.
The ELT signal that will leak out of the fiberglass fairing area will be
weak. You cannot judge this strength by the modulated tone that you hear
when you test your ELT. It will sound the same. HAM operators test their
radios and antennas with a signal strength meter. If anyone doubts what I
am saying, please ask any HAM radio operator that has done some testing on
their radio's for signal strength for different antenna configurations and
locations. It really matters.
Again, PLEASE do not encourage others to install their ELT antennas in
locations that limit signal strength. After all, most of us want to be
found quickly when we need the use of our ELT!
OK, off of my soap box.
Best regards to all,
Rich
www.aircraftextras.com
> Jack:
How far were you from the tower when they reported receiving your signal?
Tom Sargent RV-6A
> Jack Lockamy wrote:
RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy"
Mike (and others),
I used the same type ELT antenna (rubber duck) and also mounted it
under the empennage fairing, mounted facing aft off the rear bulkhead.
Same results..... tower reported LOUD and CLEAR. The antenna is there
to stay. In most crashes, the tail is likely to survive better than
the fuse or wing.... IMHO.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting BAD CHOICE |
Okay, then where would you recommend it be mounted?
Dick Tasker
Richard Meske (SquirrelMail authenticated user rmeske) wrote:
>
>Just thought I'd pipe in and say, this bothers me, and should others:
>
>PLEASE do NOT encourage others to install the ELT antennas in the empenage
>fairing. Even though it can be done, it is not a wise choice. If there
>are any HAM operators out there, they'll back me up on the facts.
>
>First of all;
>If, and when you really need this ELT, . . you will certainly want to be
>heard, and found quickly.
>
>Second of all;
>Mounting the ELT antenna in this location severly limits your output signal
>strength. Consider if you crash, you will be on the ground, and maybe in a
>gully of valley somewhere. In this case, you'll need all of the signal
>strength you can muster to be heard and found quickly. The frequencies
>that the ELT uses are mostly line of site communication. The closest tower
>or FSS will most likely be far away. The only person(s) that will hear a
>weak signal will be the guys that normally fly in the air. Even they need
>a good signal to trip their ELT receiving alarm.
>
>If you study up on antennas, you'll quickly find out that an antenna needs
>a good ground plane to work against. Mounting an antenna in the empenage
>fairing does not cut it here. ALSO, the surrounding aircraft frame acts
>like a cage keeping most of the signal strength within the tail section of
>the aircraft. It's almost like building an antenna inside a bird cage, . .
>or like keeping all of the RF inside our microwaves to exaggerate a
>little.
>
>The ELT signal that will leak out of the fiberglass fairing area will be
>weak. You cannot judge this strength by the modulated tone that you hear
>when you test your ELT. It will sound the same. HAM operators test their
>radios and antennas with a signal strength meter. If anyone doubts what I
>am saying, please ask any HAM radio operator that has done some testing on
>their radio's for signal strength for different antenna configurations and
>locations. It really matters.
>
>Again, PLEASE do not encourage others to install their ELT antennas in
>locations that limit signal strength. After all, most of us want to be
>found quickly when we need the use of our ELT!
>
>OK, off of my soap box.
>
>Best regards to all,
>Rich
>www.aircraftextras.com
>
>
>
>
>>Jack:
>>
>>
>How far were you from the tower when they reported receiving your signal?
>Tom Sargent RV-6A
>
>
>
>>Jack Lockamy wrote:
>>
>>
>RV-List message posted by: "Jack Lockamy"
>Mike (and others),
>I used the same type ELT antenna (rubber duck) and also mounted it
>under the empennage fairing, mounted facing aft off the rear bulkhead.
>Same results..... tower reported LOUD and CLEAR. The antenna is there
>to stay. In most crashes, the tail is likely to survive better than
>the fuse or wing.... IMHO.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
I installed a PC680 battery (recommended right here) last January due to poor
performance of my previous battery during the cold wx starting. My O-360
Warnke RV6 is kept in a heated hangar. After only 1 year with the PC680 I've
noticed that it wants to crank over rather slow for the 1st blade then will pick
up
momentum. Saturday I left my plane sit out in the 12deg cold air for about 3
hours and the battery just about gave up the ghost. Did I get a 'bad' battery
or what? This is unacceptable in my opinion. Not sure whether to get a
replacement PC680 or change over to the Concorde. I'm wide open....thanks in advance.
Rick Gray RV6 in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
Doug... I have one for you. I just finished a panel for a builder here...
It has a Dynon, Altrack, Navaid, EI Engine Analyzer, panel mounted 196,
Garmin and UPS radios... I can take some hi-res photos and give you an
equipment list...
Oh yeah... Bill Mackey's RV-8 flew for the first time on Dec, 17 2003! It
has an Aerosport Power XP360 and Hartzel 74" blended airfoil C/S prop... We
flew it again on Sunday and did some GPS speed runs and were seeing about
210 MPH TAS at 9500', and 2500 RPM... Here's some photos:
http://www.vafml.org/members/bmackey/index.htm
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: RV-List: Sexy panels
>
> I am writing an article for IFR magazine about all the affordable sexy
stuff
> we have that the spam cans don't. I am looking for a hi-res picture of a
> really hi-tech panel. It would not have to be RV. An emphasis on
> non-certified avionics, autopilot, engine monitoring would be best.
>
> Send them to me directly at dougr(at)petroblend.com
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PC680 Battery |
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
Have been running 680 and 625 for the last three years. Cranks better than
the Concorde and lasts better for me. A friend had an odyssey fail, we
attributed this to the fact that it was run dead several times? Should last
at least two years in normal service!
Hate to belabor the obvious but check all connections and the contactors. I
did have a (firewall mounted) starter solenoid fail in a manner to give your
symptoms. It was making a poor connection due to the slam wear on the big
copper disk inside.
Good luck
Denis
> From: RGray67968(at)aol.com
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Mon, 12 Jan 2004 11:48:34 EST
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: PC680 Battery
>
>
> I installed a PC680 battery (recommended right here) last January due to poor
> performance of my previous battery during the cold wx starting. My O-360
> Warnke RV6 is kept in a heated hangar. After only 1 year with the PC680 I've
> noticed that it wants to crank over rather slow for the 1st blade then will
> pick up
> momentum. Saturday I left my plane sit out in the 12deg cold air for about 3
> hours and the battery just about gave up the ghost. Did I get a 'bad' battery
> or what? This is unacceptable in my opinion. Not sure whether to get a
> replacement PC680 or change over to the Concorde. I'm wide open....thanks in
> advance.
> Rick Gray RV6 in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ELT antenna mounting RV8A |
As the crow flies, about 20 miles.
Mike R.
>From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: ELT antenna mounting RV8A
>Date: Sun, 11 Jan 2004 21:54:43 -0700
>
>
>Jack:
> How far were you from the tower when they reported receiving your
>signal?
>--
>Tom Sargent RV-6A
>
>Jack Lockamy wrote:
>
> >
> >Mike (and others),
> >
> >I used the same type ELT antenna (rubber duck) and also mounted it under
>the empennage fairing, mounted facing aft off the rear bulkhead. Same
>results..... tower reported LOUD and CLEAR. The antenna is there to stay.
>In most crashes, the tail is likely to survive better than the fuse or
>wing.... IMHO.
> >
> >
>
>
Let the new MSN Premium Internet Software make the most of your high-speed
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | ENGINES/PROPS/GOV |
HAVE 0360/IO-360/O540/IO-540 ENGINE/PROPELLER/GOVERENER PACKAGES FOR JUST
ABOUT ANY NEED. PLEASE CONTACT AT GTSIO(at)AOL.COM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Joel,
This is one of those areas that will probably be discussed for eons. Your
friend is technically correct, but it has been determined by the FAA head
legal folks that there is no way at this time to enforce it because prior to
about 1985 engines and propellers were no listed in the FAA registry with
the aircraft's registration. The registration data base is what is used to
send ADs. And because the database is not Completely up-to-date for ALL
aircraft, all owners may not receive ADs, therefore they cannot be held
accountable.
there has been some attempt by certain regions, i.e. the northeastern
region, to make them mandatroy anyways. They have been informed that they
can't arbitrarially do that. I don't know if the word got out to all
inspectors in that region yet, so beware.
In my own opinion, what is probably going to happen sometime in the future
is that a part of your condition inspection will be an AD search and
compliance requirement. That is my opinion only though and it may, or may
not, take some other form, or no form at all.
Mike Robertson
>From: smoothweasel(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: AD compliance
>Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2004 19:47:15 -0600
>
>
> I was chatting with a friend the other day and he made the
>statement that EXPERIMENTAL aircraft are NOT exempt from AD
>compliances....... I did not get involved in a discussion that I am not
>sure of but my thinking is that there is no requirement for them to
>comply.
>
>Joel "Weasel" Graber
>-4 painted as of last weekend
>
>
High-speed usersbe more efficient online with the new MSN Premium Internet
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: ENGINES/PROPS/GOV |
Geographical location of engines???
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | Fuel consumption |
If you read some of Vans (as well as Theodore Von Karmonn's) old writings on
the subject they mathmatically demonstrate the principle that hull drag is
the major factor in both speed and power/fuel required.
If both hulls are the same, and both are flyin the same, then the available
HP has no bearing on consumption. Now that said, if you add two more
cylinders then one hull will wiegh more than the other, so this will need a
tad more fuel to fly it.
But more power available can get you up there faster and higher, and will
then empty your wallet at a greater rate.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | P M Condon <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Aviation Humor & Truism-s |
AVIATION HUMOR
Blue water Navy truism: There are more planes in the ocean
than there are submarines in the sky.
If the wings are traveling faster than the fuselage, it's
probably a helicopter -- and therefore, unsafe.
Navy carrier pilots to Air Force pilots: Flaring is like
squatting to pee.
When one engine fails on a twin-engine airplane, you always
have enough power left to get you to the scene of the crash.
Without ammunition, the USAF would be just another expensive
flying club.
What is the similarity between air traffic controllers (ATC)
and pilots? If a pilot screws up, the pilot dies. If ATC
screws up, the pilot dies.
Never trade luck for skill.
The three most common expressions (or famous last words) in
aviation are:
January 04, 2004 - January 12, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-os