RV-Archive.digest.vol-ph
May 12, 2004 - May 25, 2004
| From: | Jeff Cours <rv-j(at)moriarti.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Preview plans.. |
copperhead wrote:
> (got the box open...OMG, this thing is in little pieces)
Put 'em in little boxes, with labels. You'll still have a garage full of
little pieces, but it'll look a lot neater. It's more efficient, too,
since you can lose all your AN470AD4-5 rivets at one go instead of one
at a time. :-)
Welcome to the hobby!
- Jeff C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ken Harrill <KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
| Subject: | What would your perfect EHSI look like? |
Doug,
I agree with Doug Rozendaal 100%. I would like to see a simple to use
electronic HSI. It needs to display Nav information from a Nav/Comm and a
GPS (not at the same time). We have some good autopilot chooses that are
stand alone. I don't see any advantage to interconnecting the two. Moving
map info is displayed very well in the avionics stack and does not need to
be included in the HSI. A bug showing ground track would be nice.
Otherwise, keep it simple.
Ken Harrill
RV-6 w/ D10
300+ hours
Doug,
I would like a system that is simple. Few if any more "front end" features
than a steam gauge HSI.
As for the features embedded in the system to talk with other equipment, I
am not an avionics engineer, but it looks like you have some good equipment
interface comments here from others.
Airplanes are becoming too "feature rich" I fly with too many pilots who
make flying more difficult, not simpler, by trying to use the "features" in
all the magic they paid good money for.
This is a serious problem in our industry. The FAA has just announced a
rewrite of the Inst. Rating Practical Test Standards to address this, but
the FAA is still concerned as are the airframe manufacturers.
All the features that are available can add utility to an airplane, but the
problem is, they add workload too. Many IFR pleasure pilots that I see are
marginally current at best. For this crowd, they should be turning the toys
off when they fly IFR, not looking for more "features" to fiddle with. You
cannot install experience in the panel.
The VFR folks have no need for most of the toys they have and spend time
fiddling with them when they should be looking outside.
Sorry folks, but I get to fly in lots of airplanes with lots of pilots and
this is a widespread problem.
I vote for a simple system that works well and has a fair price like the
D-10.
Standing by with my asbestos underwear ;-)
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
RV-4 with too many toys.....
----- Original Message -----
From: <dmedema(at)att.net>
Subject: RV-List: What would your perfect EHSI look like?
>
> Hello listers,
>
> Have you ever thought that, given the chance, you could design avionics
better than what is presently available. Well heres your chance! We are in
the very early stages of defining our future EHSI product. Our only
constraint is that it is the same physical format as our current EFIS-D10
with regards to display and user interface. While we certainly have our own
ideas of what will make a great instrument, we would really like to have
yours as well. So .
>
> What features does it have to have to be a useful addition to your panel?
> What features would be nice additions?
> What display formats do you want to see available? 60 degree arc? 360
degrees? Others?
> What does it have to interface with? GPS only? NAV radios? Marker
Beacons?
> Would the HSI display be a good place to include an autopilot interface or
would you prefer a dedicated autopilot head?
>
> Were not making any promises that well design the instrument of your
personal dreams, but without your input, we most likely wont make your
perfect instrument. So dream away, warm up your keyboard, and send us an
email. My direct email address here at Dynon is
doug.medema(at)dynonavionics.com.
>
> Thanks for your interest.
>
> Doug Medema
> Dynon Avionics
> RV-6A N276DM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | help! wing spar anomaly |
Fellow builders:
I have been list-lurking for almost two years while toiling away on my
(very) slow-build RV7. Your experienced council to others has helped
immensely, but I've finally encountered a situation I have not seen
addressed and I need the one thing I know there is no shortage of
here...advice and opinions!
While attempting to cleco the skins to my wing skeletons I was unable to get
the prepunched skin holes to align on the bottom of the left wing. Either
they aligned with the main spar flange and nothing else or they aligned with
the ribs and rear spar but not the main spar flange. After many
conversations with Vans and various bouts of disassembly and measurement,
the cause has been isolated to the left main spar lower flange bend out of
spec. The result is that the flange is too narrow, which has the effect of
locating the prepunched holes too far forward relative to the spar web and
thusly all the other prepunched holes in the structure as well. The error is
approximately .033in. which translates to just over 1/2 prepunched hole
diameter off. I have posted a photo at
www.planespotter.com/images/spar&rib.jpg to illustrate.
The solutions Van's has proposed are to 1) remove the ribs, cut off their
flanges, reposition them to align with the spar flange and use aluminum
angle to create new rib flanges, and 2) leave the ribs as they are, cleco
the skins to the ribs and drill out the mis-aligned spar flange holes,
adding a doubler behind the spar flange for strength.
Here are the problems I see: In addition to being a lot of work and having
the potential to produce even more errors, no.1 would introduce a slight
change of camber into the wing cross section. No. 2 would be simpler, but
would introduce a mis-alignment into all of the inspection panels. Perhaps
more importantly, neither solution addresses the fact that the problem will
manifest itself again in a big way when I attempt to fit the leading edges
and fuel tanks. Is my analysis accurate and have I missed anything?
Here are my thoughts: I've gotten accustomed to workarounds on this
project, but this is testing my resolve. When I hear about all the guys
clecoing an airplane together right out of the box, I do not feel blessed to
be the one in three thousand that got a bum wing spar. Frankly, I can screw
this project up just fine all by myself. In my heart of hearts I think I
should get a new spar; after all the reason we pay the big bucks for the
Phlogiston pre-built spar is so this most important of all structures is
built correctly. Am I being unreasonable? (my long suffering wife feels
that in light of the amount of work this has set me back - I'm pretty slow
after all - I should get a free quickbuild wing, but I won't go there).
This is where I need advice, opinions, and a reality check. Yes, I know
that this is a great airplane, but all I ask is that all you guys who think
Vans can do no wrong (you know who you are) pause a moment and put yourself
in my place. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Fraternally - Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | help! wing spar anomaly |
Here's the one instance where there is actually a very simple solution IHMO.
If in fact Van's claims it's a spar that is "bent out of spec", then it
needs to be replaced. I'd force them to send me a new spar. Slicing all
the ribs apart, et.al is a messy proposition. On top of that you have no
idea what the "downstream" effects may arise because of it. Adding material
adds weight, so that option also is less than desireable. If you're going
to go through all the work to make that one fit, I'd make a new one from
Van's fit in it's place.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ford Frazier
Subject: RV-List: help! wing spar anomaly
Fellow builders:
I have been list-lurking for almost two years while toiling away on my
(very) slow-build RV7. Your experienced council to others has helped
immensely, but I've finally encountered a situation I have not seen
addressed and I need the one thing I know there is no shortage of
here...advice and opinions!
While attempting to cleco the skins to my wing skeletons I was unable to get
the prepunched skin holes to align on the bottom of the left wing. Either
they aligned with the main spar flange and nothing else or they aligned with
the ribs and rear spar but not the main spar flange. After many
conversations with Vans and various bouts of disassembly and measurement,
the cause has been isolated to the left main spar lower flange bend out of
spec. The result is that the flange is too narrow, which has the effect of
locating the prepunched holes too far forward relative to the spar web and
thusly all the other prepunched holes in the structure as well. The error is
approximately .033in. which translates to just over 1/2 prepunched hole
diameter off. I have posted a photo at
www.planespotter.com/images/spar&rib.jpg to illustrate.
The solutions Van's has proposed are to 1) remove the ribs, cut off their
flanges, reposition them to align with the spar flange and use aluminum
angle to create new rib flanges, and 2) leave the ribs as they are, cleco
the skins to the ribs and drill out the mis-aligned spar flange holes,
adding a doubler behind the spar flange for strength.
Here are the problems I see: In addition to being a lot of work and having
the potential to produce even more errors, no.1 would introduce a slight
change of camber into the wing cross section. No. 2 would be simpler, but
would introduce a mis-alignment into all of the inspection panels. Perhaps
more importantly, neither solution addresses the fact that the problem will
manifest itself again in a big way when I attempt to fit the leading edges
and fuel tanks. Is my analysis accurate and have I missed anything?
Here are my thoughts: I've gotten accustomed to workarounds on this
project, but this is testing my resolve. When I hear about all the guys
clecoing an airplane together right out of the box, I do not feel blessed to
be the one in three thousand that got a bum wing spar. Frankly, I can screw
this project up just fine all by myself. In my heart of hearts I think I
should get a new spar; after all the reason we pay the big bucks for the
Phlogiston pre-built spar is so this most important of all structures is
built correctly. Am I being unreasonable? (my long suffering wife feels
that in light of the amount of work this has set me back - I'm pretty slow
after all - I should get a free quickbuild wing, but I won't go there).
This is where I need advice, opinions, and a reality check. Yes, I know
that this is a great airplane, but all I ask is that all you guys who think
Vans can do no wrong (you know who you are) pause a moment and put yourself
in my place. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Fraternally - Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
I would agree. If Van's says it is bent out of spec, then I think you
are entitled to a new spar. I suspect that the problem Van's is having,
assuming that your RV7 is designed the same as the RV9 (which I am
building), is that the two main spars and the center section are a
matched set. So replacing a single spar is not really an option - they
would have to replace both spars and the center section.
Nonetheless, you have paid for complete correct spars and that is what
you should have. These kits are sold as matched hole designs and the
holes do match if the parts are correct. With minor exceptions... I
know on my plane the outer main ribs had one hole that was off about
1/4" - easily remedied. But the main spar!!! Get new replacements!
My $0.02.
Let us know what happens.
Dick Tasker
Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>Here's the one instance where there is actually a very simple solution IHMO.
>
>If in fact Van's claims it's a spar that is "bent out of spec", then it
>needs to be replaced. I'd force them to send me a new spar. Slicing all
>the ribs apart, et.al is a messy proposition. On top of that you have no
>idea what the "downstream" effects may arise because of it. Adding material
>adds weight, so that option also is less than desireable. If you're going
>to go through all the work to make that one fit, I'd make a new one from
>Van's fit in it's place.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>Cheers,
>Stein Bruch
>RV6's, Minneapolis.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ford Frazier
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: help! wing spar anomaly
>
>
>Fellow builders:
>
>I have been list-lurking for almost two years while toiling away on my
>(very) slow-build RV7. Your experienced council to others has helped
>immensely, but I've finally encountered a situation I have not seen
>addressed and I need the one thing I know there is no shortage of
>here...advice and opinions!
>
>While attempting to cleco the skins to my wing skeletons I was unable to get
>the prepunched skin holes to align on the bottom of the left wing. Either
>they aligned with the main spar flange and nothing else or they aligned with
>the ribs and rear spar but not the main spar flange. After many
>conversations with Vans and various bouts of disassembly and measurement,
>the cause has been isolated to the left main spar lower flange bend out of
>spec. The result is that the flange is too narrow, which has the effect of
>locating the prepunched holes too far forward relative to the spar web and
>thusly all the other prepunched holes in the structure as well. The error is
>approximately .033in. which translates to just over 1/2 prepunched hole
>diameter off. I have posted a photo at
>www.planespotter.com/images/spar&rib.jpg to illustrate.
>
>The solutions Van's has proposed are to 1) remove the ribs, cut off their
>flanges, reposition them to align with the spar flange and use aluminum
>angle to create new rib flanges, and 2) leave the ribs as they are, cleco
>the skins to the ribs and drill out the mis-aligned spar flange holes,
>adding a doubler behind the spar flange for strength.
>
>Here are the problems I see: In addition to being a lot of work and having
>the potential to produce even more errors, no.1 would introduce a slight
>change of camber into the wing cross section. No. 2 would be simpler, but
>would introduce a mis-alignment into all of the inspection panels. Perhaps
>more importantly, neither solution addresses the fact that the problem will
>manifest itself again in a big way when I attempt to fit the leading edges
>and fuel tanks. Is my analysis accurate and have I missed anything?
>
>Here are my thoughts: I've gotten accustomed to workarounds on this
>project, but this is testing my resolve. When I hear about all the guys
>clecoing an airplane together right out of the box, I do not feel blessed to
>be the one in three thousand that got a bum wing spar. Frankly, I can screw
>this project up just fine all by myself. In my heart of hearts I think I
>should get a new spar; after all the reason we pay the big bucks for the
>Phlogiston pre-built spar is so this most important of all structures is
>built correctly. Am I being unreasonable? (my long suffering wife feels
>that in light of the amount of work this has set me back - I'm pretty slow
>after all - I should get a free quickbuild wing, but I won't go there).
>
>This is where I need advice, opinions, and a reality check. Yes, I know
>that this is a great airplane, but all I ask is that all you guys who think
>Vans can do no wrong (you know who you are) pause a moment and put yourself
>in my place. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
>
>Fraternally - Ford
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
Ford Frazier wrote:
>
>Fellow builders:
>
>I have been list-lurking for almost two years while toiling away on my
>(very) slow-build RV7. Your experienced council to others has helped
>immensely, but I've finally encountered a situation I have not seen
>addressed and I need the one thing I know there is no shortage of
>here...advice and opinions!
>
>While attempting to cleco the skins to my wing skeletons I was unable to get
>the prepunched skin holes to align on the bottom of the left wing. Either
>they aligned with the main spar flange and nothing else or they aligned with
>the ribs and rear spar but not the main spar flange. After many
>conversations with Vans and various bouts of disassembly and measurement,
>the cause has been isolated to the left main spar lower flange bend out of
>spec. The result is that the flange is too narrow, which has the effect of
>locating the prepunched holes too far forward relative to the spar web and
>thusly all the other prepunched holes in the structure as well. The error is
>approximately .033in. which translates to just over 1/2 prepunched hole
>diameter off. I have posted a photo at
>www.planespotter.com/images/spar&rib.jpg to illustrate.
>
>The solutions Van's has proposed are to 1) remove the ribs, cut off their
>flanges, reposition them to align with the spar flange and use aluminum
>angle to create new rib flanges, and 2) leave the ribs as they are, cleco
>the skins to the ribs and drill out the mis-aligned spar flange holes,
>adding a doubler behind the spar flange for strength.
>
>Here are the problems I see: In addition to being a lot of work and having
>the potential to produce even more errors, no.1 would introduce a slight
>change of camber into the wing cross section. No. 2 would be simpler, but
>would introduce a mis-alignment into all of the inspection panels. Perhaps
>more importantly, neither solution addresses the fact that the problem will
>manifest itself again in a big way when I attempt to fit the leading edges
>and fuel tanks. Is my analysis accurate and have I missed anything?
>
>Here are my thoughts: I've gotten accustomed to workarounds on this
>project, but this is testing my resolve. When I hear about all the guys
>clecoing an airplane together right out of the box, I do not feel blessed to
>be the one in three thousand that got a bum wing spar. Frankly, I can screw
>this project up just fine all by myself. In my heart of hearts I think I
>should get a new spar; after all the reason we pay the big bucks for the
>Phlogiston pre-built spar is so this most important of all structures is
>built correctly. Am I being unreasonable? (my long suffering wife feels
>that in light of the amount of work this has set me back - I'm pretty slow
>after all - I should get a free quickbuild wing, but I won't go there).
>
>This is where I need advice, opinions, and a reality check. Yes, I know
>that this is a great airplane, but all I ask is that all you guys who think
>Vans can do no wrong (you know who you are) pause a moment and put yourself
>in my place. Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
>
>Fraternally - Ford
>
Cosidering the labor invested so far, I wouldn't hesitate to start
negotiations by asking for a qb wing. Go for it.
Charlie
(now you've got *me* worried. I've already had to return a main rib that
was formed incorrectly because it moved in the tooling.)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
I have been using the Microfastener #8 Torx screws for the past year in my Velocity.
My cowls have been off at least a dozen times in the past year with good
success with these screws.
They work great, I have yet to strip one - or break a head off. The original ones
that they sent out were T20's and there was not enough metal left between
the bottom of the torx socket and the tapered head. They sent me a whole new
set of T15's FREE!!!
I have discovered that you don't use a fast electric drill - what happens is the
threads get hot and will "freeze".
After changing to a cheap/slow electric screw driver, I have not had any more problems
with Frozen Screws.
Ronnie Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Gear leg/socket drilling |
I used a 2 1/2" X 2 1/2" steel angle clamped to both axles , to keep the gear
legs in place while drilling. There should be NO toe-in/toe-out. Clamp each
axle in the "V" with "C" clamps while drilling the bolt holes.
I used a Cobalt drill bit for drilling. Turn it slow , with much pressure. I
looped a small chain around the mount tubes : used a steel bar across the
drill handle , and hooked the bar end in a loop in the chain ( A real "Rube
Goldberg" drill press). Get "Rapid Tap " drilling fluid from a good auto parts
store or machine shop to lubricate the drill while drilling. I had to sharpen the
bit a few times,too.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)verizon.net> |
I would agree to with the desire for a simple electronic version of an HSI.
Surprisingly, the $15,000 BMA EFIS does not support this functionality (not
sure about Sierra and GRT has announced an ARINC429 interface box for an
additional $500).
For example in order to get HSI functionality on a BMA system along with a
Garmin 430 or CNX80 you have to buy a $1,500 external mechanical CDI/OBS to
drive the resolver. Yes, you can use an SL-30 NAV/COM with their system but
you still need an external CDI/OBS for the GPS. BTW, OBS functionality is
very useful for both IFR and VFR flying. If you are cleared to land straight
in on RWY30 at an unfamiliar airport and you are 5 miles out you can
instantly dial a 300deg bearing to intercept the extended centerline.
Let's hope that Dynon can actually make a simple electronic HSI that can
support either analog SIN/COS rotor or digital ARINC 429 resolver input. My
hunch is that this is a non trivial effort. Having to buy a $1,500 CDI/OBS
to go along with a potential $2,500 DYNON EHSI may make the solution much
less appealing.
Robin Wessel
RV-10 wings
Tigard, OR
Subject:
RE: What would your perfect EHSI look like?
From:
Ken Harrill (
KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us)
Date:
Wed May 12 - 2:08 PM
>
Doug,
I agree with Doug Rozendaal 100%. I would like to see a simple to use
electronic HSI. -snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RE: What would your perfect EHSI look like? |
I would agree to with the desire for a simple electronic version of an HSI.
Surprisingly, the $15,000 BMA EFIS does not support this functionality (not
sure about Sierra and GRT has announced an ARINC429 interface box for an
additional $500).
For example in order to get HSI functionality on a BMA system along with a
Garmin 430 or CNX80 you have to buy a $1,500 external mechanical CDI/OBS to
drive the resolver. Yes, you can use an SL-30 NAV/COM with their system but
you still need an external CDI/OBS for the GPS. BTW, OBS functionality is
very useful for both IFR and VFR flying. If you are cleared to land straight
in on RWY30 at an unfamiliar airport and you are 5 miles out you can
instantly dial a 300deg bearing to intercept the extended centerline.
Let's hope that Dynon can actually make a simple electronic HSI that can
support either analog SIN/COS rotor or digital ARINC 429 resolver input. My
hunch is that this is a non trivial effort. Having to buy a $1,500 CDI/OBS
to go along with a potential $2,500 DYNON EHSI may make the solution much
less appealing.
Robin Wessel
RV-10 wings
Tigard, OR
Subject:
RE: What would your perfect EHSI look like?
From:
Ken Harrill (
KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us)
Date:
Wed May 12 - 2:08 PM
>
Doug,
I agree with Doug Rozendaal 100%. I would like to see a simple to use
electronic HSI. -snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RE: What would your perfect EHSI look like? |
I would agree to with the desire for a simple electronic version of an HSI.
Surprisingly, the $15,000 BMA EFIS does not support this functionality (not
sure about Sierra and GRT has announced an ARINC429 interface box for an
additional $500).
For example in order to get HSI functionality on a BMA system along with a
Garmin 430 or CNX80 you have to buy a $1,500 external mechanical CDI/OBS to
drive the resolver. Yes, you can use an SL-30 NAV/COM with their system but
you still need an external CDI/OBS for the GPS. BTW, OBS functionality is
very useful for both IFR and VFR flying. If you are cleared to land straight
in on RWY30 at an unfamiliar airport and you are 5 miles out you can
instantly dial a 300deg bearing to intercept the extended centerline.
Let's hope that Dynon can actually make a simple electronic HSI that can
support either analog SIN/COS rotor or digital ARINC 429 resolver input. My
hunch is that this is a non trivial effort. Having to buy a $1,500 CDI/OBS
to go along with a potential $2,500 DYNON EHSI may make the solution much
less appealing.
Robin Wessel
RV-10 wings
Tigard, OR
Subject:
RE: What would your perfect EHSI look like?
From:
Ken Harrill (
KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us)
Date:
Wed May 12 - 2:08 PM
>
Doug,
I agree with Doug Rozendaal 100%. I would like to see a simple to use
electronic HSI. -snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Wessel" <robin.wessel(at)verizon.net> |
I would agree to with the desire for a simple electronic version of an HSI.
Surprisingly, the $15,000 BMA EFIS does not support this functionality (not
sure about Sierra and GRT has announced an ARINC429 interface box for an
additional $500).
For example in order to get HSI functionality on a BMA system along with a
Garmin 430 or CNX80 you have to buy a $1,500 external mechanical CDI/OBS to
drive the resolver. Yes, you can use an SL-30 NAV/COM with their system but
you still need an external CDI/OBS for the GPS. BTW, OBS functionality is
very useful for both IFR and VFR flying. If you are cleared to land straight
in on RWY30 at an unfamiliar airport and you are 5 miles out you can
instantly dial a 300deg bearing to intercept the extended centerline.
Let's hope that Dynon can actually make a simple electronic HSI that can
support either analog SIN/COS rotor or digital ARINC 429 resolver input. My
hunch is that this is a non trivial effort. Having to buy a $1,500 CDI/OBS
to go along with a potential $2,500 DYNON EHSI may make the solution much
less appealing.
Robin Wessel
RV-10 wings
Tigard, OR
Subject:
RE: What would your perfect EHSI look like?
From:
Ken Harrill (
KHarrill(at)osa.state.sc.us)
Date:
Wed May 12 - 2:08 PM
>
Doug,
I agree with Doug Rozendaal 100%. I would like to see a simple to use
electronic HSI. -snip
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | deburring the canopy edges |
How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques are
folks using?
Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after the
last or nearly last cut/fit?
Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own weight
if laid on the unfinished edges?
thx,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
Hi Lucky-
The only time I polished the edges on my tip-up -6A was for final finish
before drilling it to the frame/skin. I would imagine the -6/7/9 canopys to be
more critical as they are big ol' floppy things. I did take 80 grit sandpaper
and knock off the rough edges after most cuts just to make handling easier
since loading/unloading to the fuse for each fit test took two people, one per
side (maybe not necessary, but I wasn't taking any chances!).
It seems from historical evidence and my own experience that temperature in
the shop is more critical- I rarely handled the bubble if it wasn't over 80
degrees, with most cuts made only when above 90. But then, that was in the
middle of last summer- not hard to do in TN!
From The PossumWorks
Mark -6A N51PW - 72 hours, pants on & gettin' ready for paint!
In a message dated 5/13/04 6:52:35 AM Central Daylight Time, RV8ter(at)aol.com
writes:
> How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
> are folks using?
>
> Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
> the last or nearly last cut/fit?
>
> Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
> weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | deburring the canopy edges |
Lucky,
We deburred the edges after every cut.
We used the grinder With the Blue (Fine) Rotolock 3M disc.
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: RV8ter(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv8-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: deburring the canopy edges
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 07:46:54 -0400
>
>
>How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
>are folks using?
>
>Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
>the last or nearly last cut/fit?
>
>Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
>weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
>
>thx,
>lucky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | drilling gear legs |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP I have ordered a new RV-3 engine mount and gear legs from Vans and
am
looking for any advice/experience with drilling the retainer bolt hole
through the gear leg and socket. Seems this procedure would apply to the
-4
and -6 as well. Any info regarding what kind of bit, drill, technique
used
would be helpful. Anyone have a good way of aligning and clamping the
gear
legs securely before drilling?
Thanks for any help anyone has to offer,
Eric Sandifer SNIP
Eric,
A technique that I used on my Rocket was to drill and tap the gear leg
socket for a small set screw. You can mark where the bolt hole is going
to go and put the set screw 90 degrees from that point. Be mindful of
edge distance, I wouldn't put the set screw near an edge where it might
induce a crack.
The set screw works very well to hold the gear leg while you are putting
the bolt hole in.
YMMV. If in doubt ask Van's. If they say "No" to the extra hole, do it
anyway and weld it shut later (preferrably before you paint the EM).
Have fun.
Vince in Indiana
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear leg/socket drilling |
Eric. It is nearly impossible to drill the mount
socket and gear legs on the aircraft and get it all
straight. I drill the gear legs on a drill press, then
with the gear installed in the sockets and clamped in
alignment, measure and locate the proper position to
drill the socket. Start with a bit half the size of
the bolt and drill thru the front of the socket only.
Visually check the alignment of this hole with a
flashlight, then enlarge the hole in small steps until
you have a hole matching the hole in the gear. Recheck
the gear alignment and drill thru the back of the
socket. Use a quality reamer for final deminsion. I
use this method because if you break a drill bit
inside the gear leg before you drill all the way thru,
you'll never get it out!!!
====
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
304-872-7938 shop
304-562-6800 home
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Re: RV-List: help! wing spar anomaly
Let me see if I read this right... you've got the wing structure sitting
in your jig and the skins don't fit the spar quite right.
For crying out loud, just get some unpunched skins! Drill 'em yourself
from the other side (assuming you haven't riveted the other side's skin
on yet).
If Van's won't give 'em to ya, just call A$S.
If Van's squeals about sending you the unpunched skins, I would send him
a digital picture of a steel ruler next to the misplaced spar holes. If
they really are off by as much as you say it will be readily obvious in
the picture.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp |
Listers,
A couple years back there was a discussion about cracks developing in
the F-867 cooling air ramp just above the exhaust stacks. The cracks
started at a rivet and progressed. I searched the archives using every
word pattern I could put together but got zero responses. Anybody
remember or have personal experience?
I had a crack start at a forward right edge rivet and progress left
toward the center. I kept "stop drilling" holes, but the crack kept
going, eventually making a 180 turn aft and back toward the right edge.
A circle about two inches across finally failed and departed. I am in
the process of replacing the panel and stiffeners, but I seem to
remember in the discussion people were proposing putting in some anti
vibration media of sorts in the area between the ramp and the floor skin
above. Any good solutions?
By the way, the plans show a mid span stiffener half way back from the
firewall rivet line to the piano hinge and calls for .020 or .025
metal. Mine came as a quick build already installed. It was made of
.020 and the mid span stiffener was not there, probably the reason for
the excessive vibration causing the crack to start and keep going. I
made the replacement piece from .032 and put in the mid span stiffener
IAW plans. Hopefully the extra thickness and the stiffener will quiet
the piece from excessive vibration stress. But if experience has proven
a media of some sort between the ramp and floor is good, please respond
directly. I get the daily digest and won't see the response until
tomorrow unless you go direct. Thanks in advance.
Stu McCurdy
RV-3, 74TX, Flying
RV-8, 78TX, Flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jordan Grant" <gra9933(at)bellsouth.net> |
I'm in the process of building a shop myself. I plan on using it first to
paint my plane, then as a general-purpose workshop. So these considerations
may not apply to your plans. But this might give you something to think
about.
I'm building a detached, 32' x 24' shop - sounds a bit smaller than you're
planned hangar. I have been thinking about how I'm going to configure this
for painting purposes. If you are going to make provision for a paint
'booth' or whatever, I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts on how to do
it. I haven't been able to find too much information on doing a homebuilt
paint booth capable of painting the whole airplane. A few guys have e-mailed
me (and the list) about what they did in their garages, but I think a
detached workshop could be configured in advance to make a very convenient
paint shed. Here's what I've been thinking of doing:
1) Ventilation is key for safety purposes. Since I'd also like my ideal
shop to be cooled in the summer (I'm in North Carolina and it gets hot), I'm
thinking of installing an air conditioning unit and using it for forced
ventilation in the paint shed (positive pressure). If I do this, I do not
want to recirculate air when I'm painting (for obvious reasons). So I've
been considering methods for having a system where I can select outside air
to be pumped through the air handler, or recirculate when I'm trying to cool
and dehumidify the shop. I think I can do this using relatively cheap
dampers that are usually used to turn off vents in different 'zones' of a
multizoned HVAC system in a house.
2) Lighting - I want lots of it. However, with paint fumes in the air, I
need to think about safety. My initial thought is that normal flourescent
lighting should be perfectly safe. Does anyone know of any reason why it
wouldn't be?
Anyways, that's what I'm pondering lately as my contractor does brick and
concrete work on my shops foundation. Won't be long before I have to
actually make some decisions on what to do in these areas.
Jordan Grant
N198G Reserved
Trimming baffles. And trimming. And trimming. And...
-----Original Message-----
Hi All...To introduce myself---David Ward here......
I have been spying on you all for the last couple of years while preparing
to
seriously join the fray. Two years worth of planning, saving, and educating
myself. You all have been a big part of that last one. Thanks for all the
insight and education! I am currently in the permit application process to
build
a new shop in which to build my RV-8....God willing (and the County permit
folks), I should have the shop completed by the 4th of July or so. A trip to
Vans is planned for June (in concert with Scappose I suspect)...to pick up
an
empennage kit.
That said....I though you might lend your expertise as I draw up my wish
list
for the new shop/Hanger (room for a 1700 ft. strip!). Yes...I Have reviewed
the archives. What has worked especially well for you in the shop...what do
you wish you had done....what should'nt you have done...done differently,
any
hints on any aspect would be appreciated. Lighting, tools, hanger doors,
creature comforts, floor paint?....plumbing for the compressor (anybody use
PVC?)...etc. You get the idea. If you were doing what I was, what would
you do?
If you don't want to clog up the list with this stuff feel free to resond
directly to yonderrdc(at)aol.com. If anyone wants phone #'s let me know.
I'll be ordering aircraft tools from cleveland or avery soon and dropping a
small fortune at SEARS. I've been picking up odds and ends recently
....latest
is a Dremel setup and a gross of flame-proof underwear :).
Thanks very much for any information all. It's a pleasure to finally say
Hi...
David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp |
Stu,
You must have a fairly early QB because they added that stiffener quite some
time ago. Indeed, that ramp will vibrate and crack without the stiffener. In
fact it makes noise without a stiffeneras well. I've seen some guys put in
two, might be a good idea to reduce both vibration and noise. Also, when you
rivet the fwd edge at the bottom of the firewall consider putting some
Proseal along the joint, for sealing but primarily for vibration damping.
Personally, if I had it to do over again, I'd use a sheet of stainless
instead of aluminum and leave it unpainted. Not only would it be more
durable, but occasionally polishing it would look neat, kind of like the
treatment on many turbine exhaust areas. I would not put any sort of
insulation in there for fear of it attracting and retaining moisture or oil.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 368 hours, sold
RV-3B, empennage
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stuart B McCurdy" <sturdy(at)att.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp
>
> Listers,
>
> A couple years back there was a discussion about cracks developing in
> the F-867 cooling air ramp just above the exhaust stacks. The cracks
> started at a rivet and progressed. I searched the archives using every
> word pattern I could put together but got zero responses. Anybody
> remember or have personal experience?
>
> I had a crack start at a forward right edge rivet and progress left
> toward the center. I kept "stop drilling" holes, but the crack kept
> going, eventually making a 180 turn aft and back toward the right edge.
> A circle about two inches across finally failed and departed. I am in
> the process of replacing the panel and stiffeners, but I seem to
> remember in the discussion people were proposing putting in some anti
> vibration media of sorts in the area between the ramp and the floor skin
> above. Any good solutions?
>
> By the way, the plans show a mid span stiffener half way back from the
> firewall rivet line to the piano hinge and calls for .020 or .025
> metal. Mine came as a quick build already installed. It was made of
> .020 and the mid span stiffener was not there, probably the reason for
> the excessive vibration causing the crack to start and keep going. I
> made the replacement piece from .032 and put in the mid span stiffener
> IAW plans. Hopefully the extra thickness and the stiffener will quiet
> the piece from excessive vibration stress. But if experience has proven
> a media of some sort between the ramp and floor is good, please respond
> directly. I get the daily digest and won't see the response until
> tomorrow unless you go direct. Thanks in advance.
>
> Stu McCurdy
> RV-3, 74TX, Flying
> RV-8, 78TX, Flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Gear leg/socket drilling |
Eric,
Before you weld up the gear leg box, lay the tube in the fixture and insert
the gear leg. Be sure the gear leg is annealed first. Tighten the clamps
and lower the drill head. Then drill the hole.
If you have already welded up the box, heat treated the leg and especially
if you do not have the fixture, you are out of luck. This is factory job,
not a job for a hand drill etc etc.
In my opinion, legs should come pre-drilled. My quickbuild did except for
one hole in the lower end of the nose gear leg. I couldn't believe it when
I discovered that I was to drill a hole in a piece of hardened 4340 steel.
hal (BS Industrial Engg)
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Main Gear Leg Fairings |
At 08:24 PM 5/10/2004, you wrote:
>
>Well, I'm not sure how often it would come up, but I do like to be able to
>get to the brake lines.
I'm late responding, Larry, because I have been resisting the temptation to
ask why you would want to get to the brake lines so badly as to go to all
that work?
Oh, never mind.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp |
Exactly what I did, built to plans, then riveted on a mirror finish piece
of stainless steel. Looks real nice, though a little heavy, but worth it. I
installed it with pop rivets and pro seal.
>
>Stu,
>
>You must have a fairly early QB because they added that stiffener quite some
>time ago. Indeed, that ramp will vibrate and crack without the stiffener. In
>fact it makes noise without a stiffeneras well. I've seen some guys put in
>two, might be a good idea to reduce both vibration and noise. Also, when you
>rivet the fwd edge at the bottom of the firewall consider putting some
>Proseal along the joint, for sealing but primarily for vibration damping.
>Personally, if I had it to do over again, I'd use a sheet of stainless
>instead of aluminum and leave it unpainted. Not only would it be more
>durable, but occasionally polishing it would look neat, kind of like the
>treatment on many turbine exhaust areas. I would not put any sort of
>insulation in there for fear of it attracting and retaining moisture or oil.
>
>FWIW,
>Randy Lervold
>RV-8, 368 hours, sold
>RV-3B, empennage
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Stuart B McCurdy" <sturdy(at)att.net>
>To: "rv-list"
>Subject: RV-List: RV-8, F867 cooling air ramp
>
>
> >
> > Listers,
> >
> > A couple years back there was a discussion about cracks developing in
> > the F-867 cooling air ramp just above the exhaust stacks. The cracks
> > started at a rivet and progressed. I searched the archives using every
> > word pattern I could put together but got zero responses. Anybody
> > remember or have personal experience?
> >
> > I had a crack start at a forward right edge rivet and progress left
> > toward the center. I kept "stop drilling" holes, but the crack kept
> > going, eventually making a 180 turn aft and back toward the right edge.
> > A circle about two inches across finally failed and departed. I am in
> > the process of replacing the panel and stiffeners, but I seem to
> > remember in the discussion people were proposing putting in some anti
> > vibration media of sorts in the area between the ramp and the floor skin
> > above. Any good solutions?
> >
> > By the way, the plans show a mid span stiffener half way back from the
> > firewall rivet line to the piano hinge and calls for .020 or .025
> > metal. Mine came as a quick build already installed. It was made of
> > .020 and the mid span stiffener was not there, probably the reason for
> > the excessive vibration causing the crack to start and keep going. I
> > made the replacement piece from .032 and put in the mid span stiffener
> > IAW plans. Hopefully the extra thickness and the stiffener will quiet
> > the piece from excessive vibration stress. But if experience has proven
> > a media of some sort between the ramp and floor is good, please respond
> > directly. I get the daily digest and won't see the response until
> > tomorrow unless you go direct. Thanks in advance.
> >
> > Stu McCurdy
> > RV-3, 74TX, Flying
> > RV-8, 78TX, Flying
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SCHYBOLT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
I think Ford's talking about a missbent spar, not just missplaced holes. Sounds
like this could affect the depth of the spar, thus the depth of the airfoil.
So, wing depth different for each wing?? And, I don't see how new rib flanges
could help if it's only off on the top. I vote (not that anyone's takin'
one) for new spar/centersection set.
Larry, 7A fuse
Austin, Tx.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 22 Msgs - 05/12/04 |
Screws for anchor nuts? For 25 years, my brother & I have used stainless
phillips head screws on the cowling of our 172. These have been re-used at least
50 trimes and still work fine. They seem superior to the cad-plated aircraft
phillips screws which seen to gall up much more easily. Just FWIW!!!
Paul S. Petersen, RV6A with son Eric, 90%
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
| Subject: | spar alignment problem |
Ford,
the critical question is what is the distance between both spars, fore and
aft.
What ever fix you do this distance must be exact, within 1/64" or tighter at
the root.
To be sure where the problem is cleco a few ribs in on the end flanges to
both spars and measure this, if its as per drawings and the holes are
misaligned then the spars aren't the only problem as your skins are not
right.
But if getting the holes aligned along with the skins lining up to the ribs
and spars also gets the spars separated to the correct distance than do the
rib end flange repair. The new spar may not correct your problem, as it may
be the the rib end flanges are too long.
I don't know if the box section design of the 7/8s are match drilled, if
so.... bummer, as the new spar will also need to be match drilled and you
don't want to go there. I would avoid this solution if at all possible.
But, what ever you do the spars must be spaced correctly, so what ever parts
fit when this condition is true, fix or replace the ones that don't fit.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | help! wing spar anomaly |
Greetings all!
Thanks the many responses on and off list!
Yes, the left wing is in the jig with ribs riveted to spars. The problem is not
just with one rib, but nine adjacent ribs and involves both bottom skins. Vans
has digital photos and one of my ribs.
Here's how we (Vans and I in conference) isolated the problem to the spar flange:
First, flipped the skins and clecoed them in mirror fashion to the right wing and
alignment is perfect. Skins from right wing showed same alignment problem
when fitted to the left wing. Therefore skin is not the problem.
Second, drilled out a sample left rib and sent it to Vans. They successfully installed
it in one of their wings, therefore ribs are not the problem.
Third. Vans emailed me the nominal spar flange dimensional specs and I measured
mine with a micrometer. Flange width is correct at spar ends but goes rapidly
out of spec as you move toward the center. This is consistent with the area
where the hole misalignment occurs. The error is .033 in. Edge distance is
consistent so the effect is to located the prepunched holes in the spar flange
too far forward. As a result of these checks I am 99% confident that the spar
is the source of problem.
This error should manifest itself again in reverse when I get to the leading edge
and fuel tank.
After all your much appreciated feedback I cannot see any reason that I should
NOT press for a new spar assembly at a minimum. Any workaround is going to involve
a lot of work anyway, so why not have it right? Some of you have pointed
out that spars/sparbox are match drilled. I wonder if a new spar can be match
drilled to my sparbox if ship it to Vans. This would save me from redoing
the right wing as well.
Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort this out. Any additional insights
are welcome!
Regards - Ford
PS: I would strongly encourage anyone to trial fit their wing skins before final
riveting of the ribs to the spars. Both wings before riveting either one.
PLANESPOTTER.COM - Check it out!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Schlotthauer" <rv7maker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | help! wing spar anomaly |
Ford,
If I were you (and thank god I am not, my spars were o.k.) I would make sure
that I talked directly to someone at Vans with the authority to send you a
new spar(s). I have found Tom Green to be very reasonable and fair. They
replaced the rear spar attachment forks on my 7 wings, as they apparently
slipped in the manufacturing tooling , creating a misalignment between
holes.
Best regards,
Ross Schlotthauer
RV-7 Wiring
www.experimentalair.com
>From: "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: help! wing spar anomaly
>Date: Thu, 13 May 2004 15:16:35 -0700
>
>
>Greetings all!
>
>Thanks the many responses on and off list!
>
>Yes, the left wing is in the jig with ribs riveted to spars. The problem
>is not just with one rib, but nine adjacent ribs and involves both bottom
>skins. Vans has digital photos and one of my ribs.
>
>Here's how we (Vans and I in conference) isolated the problem to the spar
>flange:
>First, flipped the skins and clecoed them in mirror fashion to the right
>wing and alignment is perfect. Skins from right wing showed same alignment
>problem when fitted to the left wing. Therefore skin is not the problem.
>Second, drilled out a sample left rib and sent it to Vans. They
>successfully installed it in one of their wings, therefore ribs are not the
>problem.
>Third. Vans emailed me the nominal spar flange dimensional specs and I
>measured mine with a micrometer. Flange width is correct at spar ends but
>goes rapidly out of spec as you move toward the center. This is consistent
>with the area where the hole misalignment occurs. The error is .033 in.
>Edge distance is consistent so the effect is to located the prepunched
>holes in the spar flange too far forward. As a result of these checks I am
>99% confident that the spar is the source of problem.
>
>This error should manifest itself again in reverse when I get to the
>leading edge and fuel tank.
>
>After all your much appreciated feedback I cannot see any reason that I
>should NOT press for a new spar assembly at a minimum. Any workaround is
>going to involve a lot of work anyway, so why not have it right? Some of
>you have pointed out that spars/sparbox are match drilled. I wonder if a
>new spar can be match drilled to my sparbox if ship it to Vans. This would
>save me from redoing the right wing as well.
>
>Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort this out. Any additional
>insights are welcome!
>
>Regards - Ford
>
>PS: I would strongly encourage anyone to trial fit their wing skins before
>final riveting of the ribs to the spars. Both wings before riveting either
>one.
>
>
>PLANESPOTTER.COM - Check it out!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
The 2004 OSH NOTAM is out,
who says no one ever listens, I popped them an idea about having printable
taxi signs for arrival and departure, and they liked it. If you are going I
suggest you print them all out along with the Notam and a frequency page and
have this spiral bound at your local Kinko's. You never know with OSH when
you may need to change plans and park somewhere else...
http://www.airventure.org/2004/flying/
http://www.airventure.org/2004/flying/arrival_signs.html.
Hope to see ya all there
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
In a message dated 5/13/04 4:45:15 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
fordfrazier(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
> After all your much appreciated feedback I cannot see any reason that I
> should NOT press for a new spar assembly at a minimum. Any workaround is going
> to involve a lot of work anyway, so why not have it right? Some of you have
> pointed out that spars/sparbox are match drilled. I wonder if a new spar can
> be match drilled to my sparbox if ship it to Vans. This would save me from
> redoing the right wing as well.
>
> Thanks again for taking the time to help me sort this out. Any additional
> insights are welcome!
>
> Regards - Ford
>
> PS: I would strongly encourage anyone to trial fit their wing skins before
> final riveting of the ribs to the spars. Both wings before riveting either
> one.
>
>
Ford,
I had just composed a letter with this suggestion -- sending back just your
center section spars. After thinking about it I'm not sure its such a good
idea. Those pieces are probably clamped together and drilled at the same time.
It seems very likely that the holes may get enlarged when they drill through
them again unless the alignment is perfect. Not too likely!
Now I'm wondering if mine are OK. I seem to remember fudging a little at
that stage.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done -- really!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
Lucky,
Take some of your scrap pieces and see how hard it is to make them break. If
you use a cutoff wheel as Vans suggests, I don't think it is necessary to
debur every trim. But, I don't want to be responsible for you cracking your
canopy, so deburring every cut is the safest. I think the riskiest time is when
you make the cut to divide it in half. Some duct tape to hold it together at
that time would be wise. Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
sticky, not acetone or MEK!
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done)
In a message dated 5/13/04 6:52:35 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
RV8ter(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
> How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
> are folks using?
>
> Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
> the last or nearly last cut/fit?
>
> Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
> weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: spar alignment problem |
While I agree with the below statement, I can tell you
from personal experience that this is not what Van's
will say.
You see, my RV-8 QB has a full 1/8 inch misalignment
between the front & rear spar of the left wing, where
it meets the fuselage. Van's says that up to an 1/8
inch is fine and typical(!), and the wing can be
forced to fit. Actually, they say that there is
enough flex in the rear spar carry through for things
to be put together without a problem, even with this
much misalignment.
I actually didn't think the assembly would go
together, but we were able to test fit it AND get the
rear spar & carry through to go together. I'm
definitely not a fan of the "beat it to fit, paint it
to match" philosophy.
--- Wheeler North wrote:
>
>
> Ford,
>
> the critical question is what is the distance
> between both spars, fore and
> aft.
>
> What ever fix you do this distance must be exact,
> within 1/64" or tighter at
> the root.
>
> To be sure where the problem is cleco a few ribs in
> on the end flanges to
> both spars and measure this, if its as per drawings
> and the holes are
> misaligned then the spars aren't the only problem as
> your skins are not
> right.
>
> But if getting the holes aligned along with the
> skins lining up to the ribs
> and spars also gets the spars separated to the
> correct distance than do the
> rib end flange repair. The new spar may not correct
> your problem, as it may
> be the the rib end flanges are too long.
>
> I don't know if the box section design of the 7/8s
> are match drilled, if
> so.... bummer, as the new spar will also need to be
> match drilled and you
> don't want to go there. I would avoid this solution
> if at all possible.
>
> But, what ever you do the spars must be spaced
> correctly, so what ever parts
> fit when this condition is true, fix or replace the
> ones that don't fit.
>
> W
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://movies.yahoo.com/showtimes/movie?mid=1808405861
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Fw: Mid-Atlantic Flyin Lumberton, NC Emailing: www.midatlanticflyin |
Tomorrow kicks off the first Mid-Atlantic Flyin held at KLBT, Lumberton, NC. They have a reserved parking spot for all RVs (the flying type), on-ground camping, airshows and much more. Airshows on Sat and Sun see NOTAM for closure times. More info at this URL http://www.midatlanticflyin.com/
Hope to see a bunch of RVs there over the weekend.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | rv4 engine mount |
A few weeks ago someone was looking for
a dyna focal mount to use as a jig.
I hane a rv4 mount available if they are
still looking.
Stewart RV4 Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
>Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
> sticky,
Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
Here are a couple of good links:
http://www.lpaero.com/accessories.html
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page37.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
> I wonder if a new spar can be match drilled to my sparbox if ship it to
Vans? This would save me >from redoing the right wing as well.
The company that manufactures the phlogiston spars for Vans can do it. It's
not cheap, but may be worth it. You might be able to work something out
with Van.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
In a message dated 5/13/04 6:40:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
dburton(at)nwlink.com writes:
>
>
> >Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
> >sticky,
>
> Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
> worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
>
>
Hi David,
I sit corrected. I based the alcohol on the fact that canopy deicer used in
my old USAF days was 50/50 methanol/water. I would think that a quick
cleaning with alcohol would do no harm, but you are probably correct. Anyway,
it
looks like my wife's favorite solvent, lamp oil, would be better.
Dan H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Walker" <ron(at)walker.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
I'm
> Ford,
>
> I had just composed a letter with this suggestion -- sending back just
your
> center section spars. After thinking about it I'm not sure its such a
good
> idea. Those pieces are probably clamped together and drilled at the same
time.
> It seems very likely that the holes may get enlarged when they drill
through
> them again unless the alignment is perfect. Not too likely!
>
> Now I'm wondering if mine are OK. I seem to remember fudging a little at
> that stage.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (almost done -- really!)
>
I'm pretty sure they don't drill them together ... when I received my wing
kit, the center spar sections were both crushed in shipment. I let Vans know
this and they started working on a replacement center section from scratch -
I received them about 2 weeks later. Today I did final wing attachment and
it all fit perfect.
Ron
RV7A, N520TX, Firewall Forward
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Getting high in an Experimental!!!! (Like 211,000 feet) |
Flight: 56L / 14P
Date: 13MAY04
Flight Time: 1.5 hour / 20 min 44sec
White Knight Pilot: Binnie
Whit Knight Copilot: Stinemetze
SpaceShipOne Pilot: Melvill
High Chase Alpha Jet Crew: Van der Schueren / Johnson Low Chase Duchess
Pilot: Siebold / Moore
Objectives:
The third powered flight of SpaceShipOne. 55 seconds motor burn time.
Handling qualities during boost and performance verification. Reaction
control system use for reorientation to entry attitude. Supersonic feather
stability and control.
Results:
Launch conditions were 46,000 feet and 120 knots. Motor light off occurred
10 seconds after release and the vehicle boosted smoothly to 150,000 feet
and Mach 2.5. Subsequent coast to apogee of 211,400 feet.
During a portion of the boost, the flight director display was inoperative,
however the pilot continued the planned trajectory referencing the external
horizon. Reaction control authority was as predicted and the vehicle
recovered in feather experiencing 1.9M and 3.5G's. Feather oscillations were
actively damped by the pilot and the wing was de-feathered starting at
55,000 feet. The onboard avionics was re-booted and a smooth and uneventful
landing made to Mojave.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
Actually you do not have to stand corrected. The second reference
posted by David, who claims that alcohol is bad, says "Some alcohols are
safe, such as isopropyl alcohol, but not all." The alcohol most readily
available is isopropyl (rubbing) alcohol.
Nonetheless, kerosene or stoddard solvent are closer to oils and
definitely will not harm the acrylic.
Dick Tasker
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 5/13/04 6:40:00 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
>dburton(at)nwlink.com writes:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
>>>sticky,
>>>
>>>
>>Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
>>worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Hi David,
>
>I sit corrected. I based the alcohol on the fact that canopy deicer used in
>my old USAF days was 50/50 methanol/water. I would think that a quick
>cleaning with alcohol would do no harm, but you are probably correct. Anyway,
it
>looks like my wife's favorite solvent, lamp oil, would be better.
>
>Dan H
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam(at)matronics.com>) |
| Subject: | Mid-Atlantic Flyin Lumberton |
of Matt Dralle )
Tomorrow kicks off the first Mid-Atlantic Flyin held at KLBT, Lumberton,
NC. They have a reserved parking spot for all RVs (the flying type),
on-ground camping, airshows and much more. Airshows on Sat and Sun see
NOTAM for closure times. More info at this URL
<http://www.midatlanticflyin.com/>http://www.midatlanticflyin.com/
Hope to see a bunch of RVs there over the weekend.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Matthews, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | deburring the canopy edges |
One very easy way to to finish the edges of the plexi (after hours of using
different, finer
grades of sandpaper) is to get a small, approx. 4" diameter buffing wheel
that you can
chuck in your drill. Add buffing compound, turn fairly slow, & follow the
edges.....
works great.
Dave Mader
2nd 6
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of RV8ter(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: deburring the canopy edges
How often should one debur and smooth the canopy edges and tools/techniques
are folks using?
Touch up edges after each and every cut before each trial fit or only after
the last or nearly last cut/fit?
Is the issue that it could crack just handling it or sitting on its own
weight if laid on the unfinished edges?
thx,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: deburring the canopy edges |
Avery sells a "Plexiglass Edge Scraper" that works excellent.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: deburring the canopy edges
>
> >Only use rubbing alcohol to remove the duct tape
> > sticky,
>
> Actually, only use Stoddard solvent or Kerosene... Alcohol is one of the
> worst things to put on acrylic. Sorry.
>
> Here are a couple of good links:
>
> http://www.lpaero.com/accessories.html
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page37.htm
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
I can't speak for the box type spars completely, but the 84 bolt specials
used in the 3s 4s and 6s need to have the spars very close to exact. If not
the pounding in method works, but the necessary rigging to follow is a real
pain, and will never be completely right.
RE alcohol, you chemists may correct me, but straight C2H6O is Ethyl alcohol
whereas methyl alcohol is CH4O. The ethyal should not have problems but good
luck buying it without the mixer. The methyal alcohol is as such to make it
not safely drinkable(and therefore untaxable), but some times they use a
little benzene to accomplish the same. The benzene is way bad for acrylics.
Not worth finding out the hard way.
Another product that is very bad are the DEET based bug sprays, be cautious
with these when air camping and at airshows. I had some of this wipe out a
set of ninety dollar eyeglass lenses, and was happy it wasn't my canopy. It
took about three hours to craze them completely, after cleaning them off
right after a little over spray got on them.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Fw: Fw: Fly-in Fish Fry |
| From: | smoothweasel(at)juno.com |
I received the following message from Crystal Lee.
Subject: Re: Fly-in
> Gerald,
> The food is bought and the hanger swept, I guess we go rain or shine.
Please come help us eat!
> Crystal Lee
If you choose to land at the Macon airport, transportation will be
provided
to the Lee's. If you want to check out the runway go ahead and fly out
there
and call Dwight - he will be monitoring 122.75.
If you drive down, please go by the Macon airport on the way (directions
are
below) to look for any stranded souls who need a ride. If worse comes to
worse and you land at Macon and don't have a ride, call Dwight's Father
Levi
Lee at 726-5560.
I attached the following directions from an earlier message:
We are located at:
GPS: N 33 08.511' W 088 24.485'
1950 ft. grass N/S runway
Caution: Power pole on the S/W corner of the runway
If driving:
Travel Hwy 45 to Prairie Point Rd. Turn East on Prairie Point Rd, pass
Macon Airport and of about 8.5 mi. to Greenbriar Rd. Turn South onto
Greenbriar, look for black catfish mailbox. Turn right at the mailbox
and
drive between the ponds to the house.
Questions? Contact us at:
Dwight Lee (662) 726-9709 e-mail: bubbalee69(at)juno.com
Levi Lee (662) 726-5560
Yall come on down if ya can.
Weasel -4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Chemicals and canopies |
At 09:09 PM 5/14/2004, you wrote:
>
>Another product that is very bad are the DEET based bug sprays, be cautious
>with these when air camping and at airshows. I had some of this wipe out a
>set of ninety dollar eyeglass lenses, and was happy it wasn't my canopy. It
>took about three hours to craze them completely, after cleaning them off
>right after a little over spray got on them.
I should ask my optician wife but I think eyeglasses are made of
polycarbonate which is what Lexan is. Maybe.
I do hear every so often that someone has tried some kind of stuff and
found it to work good as tho they had never heard of delayed reactions.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chemicals and canopies |
> I should ask my optician wife but I think eyeglasses are made of
> polycarbonate which is what Lexan is. Maybe.
Polycarbonate is an option. For the last few years the one company making
poly lenses has not been for some reason and the lenses sold as poly have
been acrylic. I don't know if that has changed in the last year or so...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
fmelder(at)verizon.net, dan(at)rvproject.com
| Subject: | Dimple Stressing |
Good Morning Gentlemen, I am due my wing kit in a couple weeks and have been
preparing a few things for that event. I had made a couple dimple test
stripes when building the emp.. To finish off my set of stripes I made a #6
& #8 dimple strip last night. I drill the proper clearance hole, deburred
both sides (not to much) and dimpled the strip. After doing so I noticed a
few stress cracks coming from the dimple hole radius I.D.. So thinking I
messed it up some how I made two more and with no avail found the pesky
cracks again. Is this the nature of the beast when the soft aluminum is
formed into the dimple that there will be some stress fractures in the
aluminum? Why this concerns me is if the strips, with good edge distance can
crack will this not in fact also occur on say the #8 dimples that attach the
wing skins to the main spar? TIA everyone, Bruce Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Has anybody out there ever built a sliding window on one of these planes? A small
plexi slider just big enough to put a camera lens out of would be great. Or
does the rush of 200 mph air want to rip the canopy off if such a thing is tried?
Just curious.....thanks in advance...
Evan
RV10 Flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Dimple Stressing |
In a message dated 5/15/04 10:10:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com writes:
> After doing so I noticed a
> few stress cracks coming from the dimple hole radius I.D..
>>>>>>>>
How are you making your dimples- on the C-frame, squeezer or ? I usually had
better results on the larger holes with the squeezer. Does the male die
easily slip into the hole in the skin? (no jokes, guys!) The fit should be a
little loose, never a tight fit. (mygawd this'll never get through the
firewall!) Examine the hole carefully before dimpling for any cracks. Also make
sure
the dies are very clean, fit very well etc. Try not deburring at all as a
test- perhaps you are deburring too much. You might want to try drilling the
correct size hole, then re-drilling with one size larger (next # lower) If using
the C-frame, try various hammers, blow strength, number of blows. Use one
light blow at a time and examine hole each time for cracking- one hard one may
be better that 3 little taps etc. Are the parts you're testing on 2024 T-3?
Maybe you got a bad piece of scrap to practice on- try other pieces. You will
need to nip this in the bud- better order more test parts 8-)
Hope some of this helps- good luck!
Mark -6A flying...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
I do not know what the track record is on RV type aircraft but a good source
for the hardware and slider tracks would be the type of window commonly used
on high performance sailplanes. These things are made by a company called
"Mecaplex" in Switzerland, costly by nice quality. Try a search for
"sailplane parts" for a N. American source. "Wings and Wheels" glider
supplies should be one source.
If you visit a local glider operation and look at most any fiberglass
sailplane - it will probably have one of these windows.
Jim Oke
Wpg., MB
RV-3, RV-6A, ASW-20
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: RV-List: windows
>
> Has anybody out there ever built a sliding window on one of these planes?
A small plexi slider just big enough to put a camera lens out of would be
great. Or does the rush of 200 mph air want to rip the canopy off if such a
thing is tried? Just curious.....thanks in advance...
>
>
> Evan
> RV10 Flaps
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: >Re: windows |
I think I wouldn't want to take a chance with my thousand dollar
+installation canopy by cutting a hole in it !!
My opinion,
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Hone" <martin.hone(at)tradergroup.com.au> |
IA0KSGkgRXZhbiwNCiANCkkgc2VlbSB0byByZWNhbGwgdGhhdCBUb255IEJpbmdlbGxpcyBtYWRl
IGEgc2xpZGluZyB3aW5kb3cgY29udmVyc2lvbiBmb3IgaGlzIGZpcnN0IFJWNi4gSSB0aGluayBp
dCB3YXMgYSBjYXNlIG9mIG1ha2luZyB0aGUgYmVzdCBvdXQgb2YgdGhlIHNpdHVhdGlvbiBhcyBo
ZSBoYWQgY3JhY2tlZCB0aGUgY2Fub3B5IGFscmVhZHkuLi4uDQogDQpGV0lXDQogDQpNYXJ0aW4g
aW4gT3oNCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit |
I have a 6A quick build. In the QB kit the main gear weldment comes
pre-drilled AND the fuselage has been pre-drilled. The problem is the
holes in the two parts don't line up very well.
How can this be, you say, wasn't it all drilled in place in the fuselage
to start with? Apparently not. Bruce at vans tells me that they drill
the gear weldment to the spar, but they don't match drill it to the
fuselage. They drill those holes in the weldment on the bench somehow.
The holes in the gear weldment that lie along the wing spar, look like
they match the spar pretty well. But the group of 4 that penetrate the
fuselage just forward of the spar appear to be off by at least 1/8"
upward. My theory at the moment is that the forward piece that screws
to the side of the fuselage (those 2 holes line up rather well) is
actually about 1/8" too low. That raises the whole outboard end of the
weldment 1/8".
I gather many QB builders have similar problems with the gear weldment.
What have other people done about it?
Thanks,
---
Tom Sargent, RV-6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit |
I had the same problem with my QB. If you use bolts and pin punches, etc to
try to get them to line up and still can't get them, you are going to need
to drill your own. Van's will have to send you new gear legs and mounts.
Then you will need to put the fuselage upside down, and measure the
placement of the gear legs. Use a transfer punch to mark the holes. Drill
them on the bench, and assemble.
It's alot of work, and very frustrating. Make sure you indeed need to do
this before you talk to Van's. They sent them to me free of charge, but
nevertheless, it took a couple of days work.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit
>
> I have a 6A quick build. In the QB kit the main gear weldment comes
> pre-drilled AND the fuselage has been pre-drilled. The problem is the
> holes in the two parts don't line up very well.
>
> How can this be, you say, wasn't it all drilled in place in the fuselage
> to start with? Apparently not. Bruce at vans tells me that they drill
> the gear weldment to the spar, but they don't match drill it to the
> fuselage. They drill those holes in the weldment on the bench somehow.
>
> The holes in the gear weldment that lie along the wing spar, look like
> they match the spar pretty well. But the group of 4 that penetrate the
> fuselage just forward of the spar appear to be off by at least 1/8"
> upward. My theory at the moment is that the forward piece that screws
> to the side of the fuselage (those 2 holes line up rather well) is
> actually about 1/8" too low. That raises the whole outboard end of the
> weldment 1/8".
>
> I gather many QB builders have similar problems with the gear weldment.
> What have other people done about it?
>
> Thanks,
> ---
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A QB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
In one of Tony Bingelis's last articles in Sport Builders Column in Sport Aviation,
he described how he installed a fold inward window in the left side of his
RV-6A slider canopy. The window was about 4 or 5 inches square, was hinged
on the bottom, and had a fold aside latch on the top so the window could swing
inward. Don't remember the month or year, but it was in the mid 90's.
Stu McCurdy
RV-3, 74TX, Flying
RV-8, 78TX, Flying
-----------------------
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: RV-List: windows
Has anybody out there ever built a sliding window on one of these planes? A small
plexi slider just big enough to put a camera lens out of would be great. Or
does the rush of 200 mph air want to rip the canopy off if such a thing is tried?
Just curious.....thanks in advance...
Evan
RV10 Flaps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
> Has anybody out there ever built a sliding window on one of these
> planes? A small plexi slider just big enough to put a camera lens out
> of would be great. Or does the rush of 200 mph air want to rip the
> canopy off if such a thing is tried? Just curious.....thanks in
> advance...
The glider guys all use windows in their canopies. There is a sliding
window with an air scoop as well from Mecaplex. See
http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page37.htm for an example. As for speed,
they routinely fly at (or over) VNE which is often around 150 KTS.
You'll need the rails and the window, a little under $300 total.
Jim Daniels
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit |
I just recalled a method I've seen used in building large steel
structures when holes don't line up. A welder just fills in the holes
with a welding bead, you file it flat and then you drill a new hole in
the right place. Does any one know why this wouldn't work? Would it
weaken the steel or have some other undesirable side effect?
>On 05/15 9:48, thomas a. sargent wrote:
>
> > I have a 6A quick build. In the QB kit the main gear weldment comes
> > pre-drilled AND the fuselage has been pre-drilled. The problem is the
> > holes in the two parts don't line up very well.
> >
>
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Cities RV FlyIn, was Windows |
>
> In one of Tony Bingelis's last articles in Sport Builders
> Column in Sport Aviation, he described how he installed a
> fold inward window in the left side of his RV-6A slider
> canopy. The window was about 4 or 5 inches square, was
> hinged on the bottom, and had a fold aside latch on the top
> so the window could swing inward. Don't remember the month
> or year, but it was in the mid 90's.
>
> Stu McCurdy
> RV-3, 74TX, Flying
> RV-8, 78TX, Flying
I recall this also, and Tony's motivation was to remove/mask a crack
that developed in his canopy.
Twin Cities Fly In only a week away! See the link below:
Alex Peterson
Chairman, Twin Cities RV Forum
alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rvflyin
17650 82nd Way North
Maple Grove, Minnesota, 55311
612-418-9710
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit |
> I just recalled a method I've seen used in building large steel
> structures when holes don't line up. A welder just fills in the holes
> with a welding bead, you file it flat and then you drill a new hole in
> the right place. Does any one know why this wouldn't work? Would it
> weaken the steel or have some other undesirable side effect?
As always check with Vans...
If this is a mild steel plate then welding up the holes and re-drilling them
in a new location should be fine. You need to use the correct materials and
processes to insure that you don't create stress risers. A common mistake
is to use a "high strength" rod or wire to weld with so that the joint is
"stronger". What you end up with is a nasty combination of strong and weak
materials and a heat affected zone that will crack in short order. What you
need to achieve is a uniform piece of material that is the same thickness
and strength.
Find out what the alloy and heat treat is (if any) and then proceed with
that information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit |
In a message dated 5/16/04 12:13:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
dburton(at)nwlink.com writes:
> If this is a mild steel plate then welding up the holes and re-drilling
> them
> in a new location should be fine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
If welding is a possibility, how about just cut off the flange, get some more
4130 plate, weld it where the old one was, reinstall and match drill to the
fuse? Possibly even reweld the old flange back on in the correct position, but
a new flange would probably be a better fit. You could even add a couple of
gussets to make it even stronger, just watch for bolt access/clearence. I
wonder who's gonna chime in on the list saying his holes are 1/8" off in the other
direction? 8-)
From The PossumWorks
Mark - 6A SLObuild, flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit |
The problem with this is, the alignment of the weldments to the
wing/fueselage is dependent upon the relationship from the gearlegs to the
wing. If you do this, there is no guarantee that the camber of the wheels
will be correct. I think there is a picture on my website showing us having
to measure the gear legs to locate the new holes.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: 6A gear weldment fit in a QB kit
>
> In a message dated 5/16/04 12:13:52 PM Central Daylight Time,
> dburton(at)nwlink.com writes:
>
> > If this is a mild steel plate then welding up the holes and re-drilling
> > them
> > in a new location should be fine.
>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
> If welding is a possibility, how about just cut off the flange, get some
more
> 4130 plate, weld it where the old one was, reinstall and match drill to
the
> fuse? Possibly even reweld the old flange back on in the correct
position, but
> a new flange would probably be a better fit. You could even add a couple
of
> gussets to make it even stronger, just watch for bolt access/clearence. I
> wonder who's gonna chime in on the list saying his holes are 1/8" off in
the other
> direction? 8-)
>
> >From The PossumWorks
> Mark - 6A SLObuild, flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
There Ya go! Thats exactly what I'm talking about. Think I could install one
of these on the pilot side window on an RV10?
Thanks for the info guys......Evan
www.evansaviationproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Daniels" <jwdanie(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Windows
>
> > Has anybody out there ever built a sliding window on one of these
> > planes? A small plexi slider just big enough to put a camera lens out
> > of would be great. Or does the rush of 200 mph air want to rip the
> > canopy off if such a thing is tried? Just curious.....thanks in
> > advance...
>
> The glider guys all use windows in their canopies. There is a sliding
> window with an air scoop as well from Mecaplex. See
> http://www.wingsandwheels.com/page37.htm for an example. As for speed,
> they routinely fly at (or over) VNE which is often around 150 KTS.
> You'll need the rails and the window, a little under $300 total.
>
> Jim Daniels
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Paulich" <jpaulich(at)earthlink.net> |
Good morning. I am finishing the side and rear skirt work on my RV7. The
fit along the fuselage and rivet/screw holes is tight, however, I'm still
concerned about leakage down the road. I have a buddy that has built race
cars suggest that I consider using Dripcheck along the rivet/screw line and
a foam strip an inch or so from the trailing edge of the rear skirt. Any
suggestions from those of you that have managed to stay dry? Thanks.
John
N121PR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy sealant |
John,
Many here on the list have used Lexel, plenty of info in the archives on it.
Available in hardware stores but not all. It is a clear sealant that is
applied during assembly on your rivet/screw lines. Has worked very well for
me.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 Finishing Kit
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Paulich" <jpaulich(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy sealant
>
> Good morning. I am finishing the side and rear skirt work on my RV7. The
> fit along the fuselage and rivet/screw holes is tight, however, I'm still
> concerned about leakage down the road. I have a buddy that has built race
> cars suggest that I consider using Dripcheck along the rivet/screw line
and
> a foam strip an inch or so from the trailing edge of the rear skirt. Any
> suggestions from those of you that have managed to stay dry? Thanks.
>
> John
> N121PR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimple Stressing |
Mark, Thank you for the reply and ideas. I do not know the vintage of scrap
bundle they give us. I am using the squeezers when forming the dimple and
yes the clearance hole seems to be adequate for the male die. I will do both
by not deburring so much and next to step the drill size up. It also has
dawn to me I may not have backed the metal up enough. Meaning when drilling
the hole I placed the metal over a blank hole in the shop table to minimize
the swiss cheese. Thanks again, Bruce
>From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Dimple Stressing
>Date: Sat, 15 May 2004 16:07:41 EDT
>
>
>In a message dated 5/15/04 10:10:01 AM Central Daylight Time,
>brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
> > After doing so I noticed a
> > few stress cracks coming from the dimple hole radius I.D..
>
> >>>>>>>>
>
>How are you making your dimples- on the C-frame, squeezer or ? I usually
>had
>better results on the larger holes with the squeezer. Does the male die
>easily slip into the hole in the skin? (no jokes, guys!) The fit should
>be a
>little loose, never a tight fit. (mygawd this'll never get through the
>firewall!) Examine the hole carefully before dimpling for any cracks.
>Also make sure
>the dies are very clean, fit very well etc. Try not deburring at all as a
>test- perhaps you are deburring too much. You might want to try drilling
>the
>correct size hole, then re-drilling with one size larger (next # lower) If
>using
>the C-frame, try various hammers, blow strength, number of blows. Use one
>light blow at a time and examine hole each time for cracking- one hard one
>may
>be better that 3 little taps etc. Are the parts you're testing on 2024
>T-3?
>Maybe you got a bad piece of scrap to practice on- try other pieces. You
>will
>need to nip this in the bud- better order more test parts 8-)
>
>Hope some of this helps- good luck!
>Mark -6A flying...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV6 Wing Kit for Sale---Cheap |
I have a pre-punched Wing Kit for an RV6 or 6a for sale. Price negotiable.
Contact offline.
Greg Grigson
iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tip up canopy seal |
> I recall reading about a "V" shaped rubber gasket seal that I
> could put on
> the bottom of the canopy with adhesive. With internal
> pressure the "V" would
> open or expand and seal the gaps even if they were uneven.
> Any one know where I
> could get something like this for my RV-4 tip up? Didn't see
> much in the
> archives. Thanks as always........
>
>
> Pat Long
> PGLong(at)aol.com
> N120PL
> RV4 DONE & Waiting for FAA inspector.
> Bay City, Michigan
> 3CM
Pat,
There is a 3M product called V-Seal. It is made of PTFE, I believe, and
is designed for doors. I think it may work well for some canopy
applications. Seems like 17 feet of it cost around ten bucks. It comes
rolled up and not folded yet into the V shape, so you could bend it
perhaps only 60 degrees or so, for example.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 469 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming idler gear |
I am modifying my O360 to support a low pressure engine driven fuel pump. I
need to replace idler gear 74996 with 75072. Does anyone on the list have a
serviceable gear for sale or trade?
Thanks,
Ken
RV-6A N94KB
RV-4 installing engine
http://www.mninter.net/~kbeene/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Norman" <tie-norman(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Southwest Regional, Temple, RV-10 Pics |
I finally put up a website (slow work in progress, too
busy building) and posted some pictures from the Southwest Regional
Fly-in and Temple air show. I will try to update it with more useful
and complete information soon. Since I am building a -10, I took plenty
of pictures of 410RV. If you have not seen this beast it is huge.
Check out the picture of Rusty standing by the horizontal, it stands
about shoulder height. I have been worried about head clearance since I
am 6' 5"+. I figured I might have to find some sort of low profile
headsets. Let me tell you, this will not be a problem at all. I had
about four inches above my hat when I was sitting up straight.
OK enough with this computer stuff, back to the
horizontal.
Tommy
www.vansrv10.com
Frisco, TX
RV-10
25TN (Reserved)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
Hi all, I'm attaching the A-407 (inboard aileron bracket) to the aileron. I have
QB wings, ailerons and flaps so you would think it's a slam dunk. The problem
is that the A-407 bracket has three attach points for AN-3 bolts and there are
three holes in the aileron spar where the bracket attaches. There are also
two smaller pre-drilled and countersunk holes on either side of the center hole
where the bracket goes.
It looks like this is where a nutplate was supposed to go but the plans clearly
show and call for an AN-3 bolt. I would just pound a few an426ad3-3's and move
on but nothing is getting riveted in these holes, there isn't any room. Does
anyone know what you are supposed to do with these holes.
I can send a digital pic if you would like to see what I'm talking about.
Thanks,
Karie Daniel
RV-7A QB
Sammamish, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
Hi Karie,
I would assume that the smaller holes are for riveting the spar to the rib.
Is that right? If so, maybe they are considered unnecessary, because the
bolts are much stronger.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done)
In a message dated 5/17/04 11:33:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
karie4(at)comcast.net writes:
>
>
> Hi all, I'm attaching the A-407 (inboard aileron bracket) to the aileron. I
> have QB wings, ailerons and flaps so you would think it's a slam dunk. The
> problem is that the A-407 bracket has three attach points for AN-3 bolts and
> there are three holes in the aileron spar where the bracket attaches. There are
> also two smaller pre-drilled and countersunk holes on either side of the
> center hole where the bracket goes.
>
> It looks like this is where a nutplate was supposed to go but the plans
> clearly show and call for an AN-3 bolt. I would just pound a few an426ad3-3's
and
> move on but nothing is getting riveted in these holes, there isn't any room.
> Does anyone know what you are supposed to do with these holes.
>
> I can send a digital pic if you would like to see what I'm talking about.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karie Daniel
> RV-7A QB
> Sammamish, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
In a message dated 5/18/04 9:29:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh
writes:
> rv-list(at)matronics.com
Karie,
If you have to rivet, there are MK-319-BS blind rivets available from Van's.
They are the ones used in the canopy side skirts.
Dan
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:29:02 EDT
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help
Hi Karie,
I would assume that the smaller holes are for riveting the spar to the rib.
Is that right? If so, maybe they are considered unnecessary, because the
bolts are much stronger.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done)
In a message dated 5/17/04 11:33:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
karie4(at)comcast.net writes:
>
>
> Hi all, I'm attaching the A-407 (inboard aileron bracket) to the aileron. I
> have QB wings, ailerons and flaps so you would think it's a slam dunk. The
> problem is that the A-407 bracket has three attach points for AN-3 bolts and
> there are three holes in the aileron spar where the bracket attaches. There are
> also two smaller pre-drilled and countersunk holes on either side of the
> center hole where the bracket goes.
>
> It looks like this is where a nutplate was supposed to go but the plans
> clearly show and call for an AN-3 bolt. I would just pound a few an426ad3-3's
and
> move on but nothing is getting riveted in these holes, there isn't any room.
> Does anyone know what you are supposed to do with these holes.
>
> I can send a digital pic if you would like to see what I'm talking about.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Karie Daniel
> RV-7A QB
> Sammamish, WA
>
>
Hi Karie,
I would assume that the smaller holes are for riveting the spar to the rib. Is
that right? If so, maybe they are considered unnecessary, because the bolts are
much stronger.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost done)
In a message dated 5/17/04 11:33:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time, karie4(at)comcast.net
writes:
-- RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" karie4(at)comcast.net
Hi all, I'm attaching the A-407 (inboard aileron bracket) to the aileron. I have
QB wings, ailerons and flaps so you would think it's a slam dunk. The problem
is that the A-407 bracket has three attach points for AN-3 bolts and there
are three holes in the aileron spar where the bracket attaches. There are
also two smaller pre-drilled and countersunk holes on either side of the center
hole where the bracket goes.
It looks like this is where a nutplate was supposed to go but the plans clearly
show and call for an AN-3 bolt. I would just pound a few an426ad3-3's and move
on but nothing is getting riveted in these holes, there isn't any room. Does
anyone know what you are supposed to do with these holes.
I can send a digital pic if you would like to see what I'm talking about.
Thanks,
Karie Daniel
RV-7A QB
Sammamish, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <tim(at)bryantechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Spinner Screws ED |
Hi Listers,
I searched the archives for this but no luck. I have my spinner mounted and
finished except for countersinking the spinner on the aft edge for the
countersunk washers. It appears to me the washers will be flush with the
aft edge of the spinner. It does look this way on the print as well but I
still question this. Should I just use round head screws? or is it OK to
have such a minimum ED with a countersink?
Any help appreciated.
Thanks
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tip up canopy seal |
| From: | "Bartrim, Todd" <Steve.Bartrim(at)canfor.com> |
You should be able to find this "V" seal at your local hardware store.
That's where I got mine. It works OK... sort of. My canopy fits pretty tight and
I found that this stuff interfered with the fit, making it hard to close (had
to slam that slider forward) and very hard to open. I now use a combination
of that on the forward bottom edge of the slider and the "P" strip that Van's
sells on the rest of the edge.
As yours is a tip-up you will likely have different fit issues.
S. Todd Bartrim
Turbo 13B
RX-9endurance
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"Imagination is more important than knowledge"
-Albert Einstein
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy Karmy <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spinner Screws ED |
You will find them both ways...
I just used round head stainless #8 screws, looks fine, easy to
maintain. I put some plastic washers under the heads to protect the
paint.
- Andy Karmy
RV9A Seattle WA
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a
On May 18, 2004, at 9:35 AM, Tim Bryan wrote:
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I searched the archives for this but no luck. I have my spinner
> mounted and
> finished except for countersinking the spinner on the aft edge for the
> countersunk washers. It appears to me the washers will be flush with
> the
> aft edge of the spinner. It does look this way on the print as well
> but I
> still question this. Should I just use round head screws? or is it OK
> to
> have such a minimum ED with a countersink?
>
> Any help appreciated.
>
> Thanks
> Tim Bryan
> RV-6 N616TB
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
- Andy Karmy
andy(at)karmy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jacklockamy(at)att.net |
| Subject: | Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's new movie.... |
To see an absolutely outstanding video of Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's second and third flight, go to: http://images.rvproject.com/movies/sharpie.wmv
It is approx. 7 minutes long and worth every second! The video was filmed and composed by fellow SOCAL RV List builder Dave Richardson (www.rv-7.com). Make sure you view it in FULL SCREEN and with the sound turned UP! The music and synchronization are perfect.
Thanks again Dan and Dave for making this very motivating video available to us
that are "still pounding those rivets" and those flying......
Enjoy,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
-7A canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
Karie,
You are right, the plans call for three AN-3 bolts. The top and bottom
AN-3 bolts are installed with a washer and nut.
The middle bolt screws into a NUTPLATE. You will have to use two pop
rivets to install the nutplate, since in the pre-built aileron there is
no way to squeeze or buck the rivets behind the end closeout.
Jim Brown
RV-7A
Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
Karie and Jim,
This must have change since I did my empennage about 3 years ago. My plans
called for an access cutout in the rib to get the washer and nut on the center
bolt.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 5/18/04 4:17:21 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com writes:
>
>
> Karie,
>
> You are right, the plans call for three AN-3 bolts. The top and bottom
> AN-3 bolts are installed with a washer and nut.
>
> The middle bolt screws into a NUTPLATE. You will have to use two pop
> rivets to install the nutplate, since in the pre-built aileron there is
> no way to squeeze or buck the rivets behind the end closeout.
>
> Jim Brown
> RV-7A
> Florida
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 and Continental IO-360 |
| From: | alan(at)reichertech.com |
Has anyone attempted putting a Continental IO-360 on an RV-8? Any links
to web sites with info on this?
- Alan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 panel For Sale |
Changing out my panel to do IFR. 120 hours on all instruments, all working when
removed.
Van's Tachometer and sender
Van's Manifold Pressure gauge and sender
Van's Oil temp gauge and sender
Van's Oil pressure gauge and sender
Vans Fuel pressure gauge and sender
Van's voltmeter
Van's ammeter gauge and shunt
Van's CHT gauge and probe
Van's EGT gauge and probe
TSOed turn coordinator was yellow tagged when installed
UMA ASI MPH outer/knots inner RV-7/8 markings
Falcon 3000 FPM VSI
Falcon Altimeter
Ameri-king Blind Encoder
Will include RV-8 center panel cut for instruments
$1100/OBO
Contact me off list
N13eer(at)aol.com
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids, IA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re:Spinner Screws ED |
My spinner screws had the same situation. I countersunk and used the
tinnerman washers. I woundlt want to leave off the tinnerman washers on a
spinner,too critical to have it stay on !
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
I found a few of these left over from my empennage, they worked fine.
Thanks!
Karie
----- Original Message -----
From: <Hopperdhh(at)aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: RV-List: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help
>
> In a message dated 5/18/04 9:29:02 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Hopperdhh
> writes:
>
> > rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
> Karie,
>
> If you have to rivet, there are MK-319-BS blind rivets available from
Van's.
> They are the ones used in the canopy side skirts.
>
> Dan
>
> From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
> Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 10:29:02 EDT
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>
>
> Hi Karie,
>
> I would assume that the smaller holes are for riveting the spar to the
rib.
> Is that right? If so, maybe they are considered unnecessary, because the
> bolts are much stronger.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (almost done)
>
>
> In a message dated 5/17/04 11:33:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
> karie4(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> >
> >
> > Hi all, I'm attaching the A-407 (inboard aileron bracket) to the
aileron. I
> > have QB wings, ailerons and flaps so you would think it's a slam dunk.
The
> > problem is that the A-407 bracket has three attach points for AN-3 bolts
and
> > there are three holes in the aileron spar where the bracket attaches.
There are
> > also two smaller pre-drilled and countersunk holes on either side of the
> > center hole where the bracket goes.
> >
> > It looks like this is where a nutplate was supposed to go but the plans
> > clearly show and call for an AN-3 bolt. I would just pound a few
an426ad3-3's and
> > move on but nothing is getting riveted in these holes, there isn't any
room.
> > Does anyone know what you are supposed to do with these holes.
> >
> > I can send a digital pic if you would like to see what I'm talking
about.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Karie Daniel
> > RV-7A QB
> > Sammamish, WA
> >
> >
>
>
> Hi Karie,
>
>
> I would assume that the smaller holes are for riveting the spar to the
rib. Is that right? If so, maybe they are considered unnecessary, because
the bolts are much stronger.
>
>
> Dan Hopper
>
> RV-7A (almost done)
>
>
> In a message dated 5/17/04 11:33:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
karie4(at)comcast.net writes:
>
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: "Karie Daniel" karie4(at)comcast.net
>
>
> Hi all, I'm attaching the A-407 (inboard aileron bracket) to the aileron.
I have QB wings, ailerons and flaps so you would think it's a slam dunk.
The problem is that the A-407 bracket has three attach points for AN-3 bolts
and there are three holes in the aileron spar where the bracket attaches.
There are also two smaller pre-drilled and countersunk holes on either
side of the center hole where the bracket goes.
>
>
> It looks like this is where a nutplate was supposed to go but the plans
clearly show and call for an AN-3 bolt. I would just pound a few
an426ad3-3's and move on but nothing is getting riveted in these holes,
there isn't any room. Does anyone know what you are supposed to do with
these holes.
>
>
> I can send a digital pic if you would like to see what I'm talking about.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
> Karie Daniel
>
> RV-7A QB
>
> Sammamish, WA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
I think a nutplate used to go in the center bolt but the plans appear to
have changed. Mine clearly show a nut for this bolt. I just placed a CS
blind rivet in these holes. I'm not sure why the plans would have changed or
why nobody else with a QB kit has ask this. I'll verify with Vans tomorrow
though to see if what I did was OK.
Karie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help
>
> Karie,
>
> You are right, the plans call for three AN-3 bolts. The top and bottom
> AN-3 bolts are installed with a washer and nut.
>
> The middle bolt screws into a NUTPLATE. You will have to use two pop
> rivets to install the nutplate, since in the pre-built aileron there is
> no way to squeeze or buck the rivets behind the end closeout.
>
> Jim Brown
> RV-7A
> Florida
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel(at)ictransnet.com> |
I'm looking for a used, but serviceable Avery or Cleveland RV tool kit.
Roger Caldwell
caldwel(at)ictransnet.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBreckenridge(at)att.net |
| Subject: | RE: Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's new movie.... |
'clip'
To see an absolutely outstanding video of Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's second and third flight, go to: http://images.rvproject.com/movies/sharpie.wmv
'clip'
Wonderful.. Thanks Dan & Dave. You made my morning!!!
Bruce Breckenridge
RV-10 40018
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's new movie.... |
GREAT
Well Done !
Chuck Rowbotham
R V-8A
>From: jacklockamy(at)att.net
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's new movie....
>Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 20:50:20 +0000
>
>
>To see an absolutely outstanding video of Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway's second
>and third flight, go to: http://images.rvproject.com/movies/sharpie.wmv
>
>It is approx. 7 minutes long and worth every second! The video was filmed
>and composed by fellow SOCAL RV List builder Dave Richardson
>(www.rv-7.com). Make sure you view it in FULL SCREEN and with the sound
>turned UP! The music and synchronization are perfect.
>
>Thanks again Dan and Dave for making this very motivating video available
>to us that are "still pounding those rivets" and those flying......
>
>Enjoy,
>
>Jack Lockamy
>Camarillo, CA
>-7A canopy
>
>
Learn to simplify your finances and your life in Streamline Your Life from
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cleaning out the shop |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Fellas,
I have the items listed below for your consideration. All are in used,
but usable condition unless noted otherwise. Add $5 for shipping.
Multiple items ship for the same $5. Payment by personal check is OK by
me.
Prestolite starter, p/n MZ4206R, overhauled by Certified Aircraft
Products, for use as core or install on your spam can. Fits Lycoming.
This would be a good item if you plan to buy one of the Magnaflite
starters from ACS and don't have a core laying around to eliminate the
$200 core charge. They will take this core... I asked. Make offer.
Shipping will be $15 on this heavy item.
Mechanical Fuel pump by A/C, 276V41271, good for core or if you've got a
Rocket and need to practice on a core before you modify the overflow
port on your brand new pump. To see one, check the top left of page 235
of the 2003/2004 ACS catalog. Make offer.
Right angle tach drive. ASC wants $60 for these. Similar, but not
identical, to the one on page 354 of the 2003/2004 ACS catalog. Make
offer.
Kohler K-2403-2 fuel primer pump There's a picture of one of these on
page 160 of the 2003/2004 ACS catalog. New price $189. This one is in
good condition and works perfectly. $75
Complete set of RV-8 plans The full size sheets not the preview set.
Van wants $275 for these when new. $50
Brand new Simpson Latch n Link lap and shoulder harness set See pics at
the URL below:
http://www.teamsimpson.com/catalog/restraints/latchfxbelts.asp
http://www.teamsimpson.com/catalog/restraints/33004.asp
The lap belt was professionally shortened (slightly) to remove the
excess length that we don't need in an RV. The shoulder belt is
untouched. The lap belt will fit RV bolt in brackets and the shoulder
harness can be either bolted in or wrapped around the RV-4 type rollbar.
Over $100 if purchased from Simpson $50
Flightcom IIGX portable voice activated intercom Very similar, but not
identical, to the one on page 466 of the 2003/2004 ACS catalog. $50
For an extra $10 I'll throw in two Telex push to talk switches. One has
a 4' cord, the other a 6'. All of these items are in good condition.
Used breakers one 3 amp, six 5 amp, one 10 amp, two 15 amp, and one 10
amp switch breaker. That's 11 breakers in all. $15
Van's 4" prop extension 6" diameter with matching crush plate, 3/8
bolts, marginal for use on O-320 or larger, but OK for O-290 according
to Van's Like new. $50
The first 5 buyers will receive FREE a used fuel sampler, new Van's
pitot cover, or other worthless, but too good to toss out item. Oh
yeah, we're talking great deals here (because I want this stuff OUT of
my way!)
Email replies to me, not the list. vfrazier(at)usi.edu
Vince Frazier
3965 Caborn Road
Mount Vernon, IN 47620
812-464-1839 work
812-985-7309 home
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
Karie and Dan;
I rechecked my plans to see what is shown .
On plans #13A dated 03-05-02 the middle bolt call out is for AN3-4A
Bolt; AN960-10L washer; K1000-3 platenut; and 2 X AN426AD3-4 rivets.
On the exploded view of the aileron on same page of the plans the
drawings also shows the nutplate.
We received the QB wing kit in September 2003. It would appear that
there are several different sets of plans.
Sorry for the difference in information???????????
Jim Brown
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ford Frazier" <fordfrazier(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help! wing spar anomaly |
Gentlemen!
Please forgive the group response - so many replied to my request for assistance.
I thought y'all might be interested to know that Van's has agreed to send me a
replacement spar and apologized for the hassle. I am satisfied with this solution,
and, although it means extra work for me, when you take the entire project
into consideration it will not add that much overall.
By the way , Jim Sears ... I asked about the spars being match drilled to the center
sections, and they said it's not necessary as they have successfully done
this swap on QB's that were damaged in shipping (all three models). This is
consistent with your 6A experience. In any case I can check the fit before committing
to the assembly.
I just wanted to thank you all again for your concern and suggestions.
Happy building and safe flying - Ford
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GNS 430 cockpit readability |
I am considering the GNS 430 vs the CNX80 and want to know from those of you flying
a 430 in your RVs if screen readability is acceptable in the bright cockpit
of the RV. The 430's screen seems severely lacking in contrast compared to
either the CNX 80 or 530.
Comments?
Thanks
Tom Olson
RV6A 298TC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gabe A Ferrer" <ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | GNS 430 cockpit readability |
The readability of my GNS 430 is excellent. I've flown with it for about a year,
as far as Las Cruces, NM. All in daylight. No problems.
Gabe A Ferrer
RV6 N2GX 114 hours
South Florida
Email: ferrergm(at)bellsouth.net
Cell: 561 758 8894
Night Phone: 561 622 0960
Fax: 561 622 0960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
RV-List
| Subject: | Canopy hole elongation? |
Ok, I made my cut and split the canopy/windsheild. After it was all said
and done I realized that I made the cut on the canopy side of the line.
Now it appears that the edge of the canopy is rearward about 1/16 -
3/32. I think it might be a good idea to elongate the handle hole to the
rear about that much. I did a trail on some scrap and found that it is
easy to do with a small drum sander. Is this a good way to fix this and
if so is there something I should use when done to seal the hole, to
keep water out?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Canopy hole elongation? |
Bobby,
Do you have a sliding canopy? If so, you could fill the hole with one of
the putty like epoxy products that you can find at the local hardware store.
I'd recommend doing this after you've attached the canopy to the frame
except for pulling the rivets across the top bow.. Use a piece of aluminum
tape on the inside to keep the epoxy from pushing through, then remove the
tape after the epoxy sets. When you're done, you'll cover the whole mess
with the aluminum strip that runs fore and aft across the canopy.
Shouldn't be a big problem.
Be sure to use an epoxy, not a polyester material, because polyester fillers
and resins attack plexi.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy hole elongation?
>
> Ok, I made my cut and split the canopy/windsheild. After it was all said
> and done I realized that I made the cut on the canopy side of the line.
> Now it appears that the edge of the canopy is rearward about 1/16 -
> 3/32. I think it might be a good idea to elongate the handle hole to the
> rear about that much. I did a trail on some scrap and found that it is
> easy to do with a small drum sander. Is this a good way to fix this and
> if so is there something I should use when done to seal the hole, to
> keep water out?
>
> --
> Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
> Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
> RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS 430 cockpit readability |
>
> I am considering the GNS 430 vs the CNX80 and want to know from those of
you flying a 430 in your RVs if screen readability is acceptable in the
bright cockpit of the RV. The 430's screen seems severely lacking in
contrast compared to either the CNX 80 or 530.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks
> Tom Olson
> RV6A 298TC
>
I don't own a 430/530 but I ride with two friends in their -6A and -7A
respectively equipped with a 430 and 530. I have never noted a readability
problem.
Doug Weiler
RV-4 being painted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS 430 cockpit readability |
I have a 430 in my RV and LOVE it. No issue with screen brightness
that I've seen.
Laird RV-6 950 hrs
SoCal
On May 19, 2004, at 5:54 PM, tcolson wrote:
>
> I am considering the GNS 430 vs the CNX80 and want to know from those
> of you flying a 430 in your RVs if screen readability is acceptable in
> the bright cockpit of the RV. The 430's screen seems severely lacking
> in contrast compared to either the CNX 80 or 530.
>
> Comments?
>
> Thanks
> Tom Olson
> RV6A 298TC
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
, ,
""
| Subject: | WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil Coolers |
Oil temp...
FOR SALE: Used 7-row Aero Classics oil cooler model 8000075, mfr 02/03, 85
hours. One corner of the rear mounting flange has been cleanly cut away to
clear the engine mount. This oil cooler should work absolutely fine on an
O-360 or O-320. Van's sells it for $165...I will ship it (48 US) for $130
or best offer. (I will post photos of it on www.rvproject.com tonight.)
On my engine (200hp IO-360-A1B6), my oil temp has been running high since
day one. Usually around 205 in cruise at 75% best power at 55F OAT. At
lower OATs, say 45F, the oil temp would drop to 195. The biggest problem
has been in the pattern, when the airspeed drops down to 90mph or so...when
doing pattern after pattern, the oil temp would get up into the 220s easily.
This is the "big" IO-360, which I've been told generates considerably more
heat than the vastly different O-360. But for all 360 models, maximum oil
inlet temp is 245F. Some have said my "high" oil temps are acceptable, but
I really want to shoot for under 200F for the long haul. 180 to 190 would
be ideal. Interestingly, my CHTs have been nice and cool, around 330-350F.
The highest CHT I've seen is about 375F in the worst of conditions. So
baffling *probably* wasn't the problem.
After break-in, the oil temp didn't really drop too much. Maybe 10 degrees
or so on average. After break-in was done, I switched to AeroShell 15W50
multigrade oil, which is what I've always used in my other planes and love
it.
Several folks advised me to use a straight 50-weight oil such as 100W, and a
few people said that their temps actually dropped 10 degrees or more when
they switched to 100.
At my last oil change a week ago, I switched to 100W. I flew several hours
and didn't notice any improvement...in fact, I saw the opposite effect if
anything, maybe 5 degrees hotter oil temp on average.
I had heard that just about everybody with the 200hp angle valve IO-360 has
had oil temp problems with Van's "stock" oil cooler. Dan Masys, I believe,
switched to a 9-row and saw a major improvement. Well, I don't want to
reconstruct my baffles if I don't have to...so...I wanted to experiment with
what is theoretically a more efficient oil cooler at the same form factor.
I had read some reviews (thanks Randy) that the Stewart Warner oil coolers
are the most efficient ones out there at any size.
So today I broke down and drove up to Pacific Oil Coolers and bought a
Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler. I slapped the $419 down (includes the $25
core) and bit the bullet. It's a 6-plate oil cooler, instead of a 7-row
like the Aero Classics. The Stewart Warner cooler has larger fin area due
to more space between plates. It's heavier, but it's much more durable.
The end tanks are a much beefier design. The form factor is *almost*
identical to the Aero Classics 7-row...close enough that I could just swap
'em and go. It's much more expensive, but let's see if it's worth it for my
particular setup...
This afternoon I did the swap, but I hit a snag. Van's calls out using
aluminum -8D fittings on the oil cooler as per their FWF plans. I know most
people advise using steel firewall forward, especially for fuel lines and
stuff...and I did. But this was the exception. I just blindly followed the
plans. DO NOT USE ALUMINUM FITTINGS ON YOUR OIL COOLER. I learned this the
hard way. I threaded the fittings into the new oil cooler, the threads
gauled. I even used a teflon pipe sealant paste -- the stuff that the
AeroClassics cooler had come with originally (Loctite 565, a white teflon
lube/paste). Despite that, the threads were destroyed. As I removed the
aluminum fitting from the oil cooler, the threads broke off and chewed up
the oil cooler's threads. Dag bernit!
I drove back to Pacific Oil Coolers, and they were friggin' AWESOME. Paul
got me right into a repair scenario...he had one of his techs take the
cooler and re-tap it. They told me that you should never use aluminum
fittings on an aluminum oil cooler...different grades of aluminum, different
rates of expansion/contraction, etc...not good. Wayne said that even though
the threads may look & feel fine, aluminum will gaul easily. USE STEEL
FITTINGS. After cleaning the threads and tapping it, the tech pressure
tested it to 180 psi in a water tank. After some teflon tape (they advise
to USE TEFLON TAPE, not the paste...these are the oil cooler experts here,
folks, I'm just repeating what they said) was applied to the fitting, the
leak test passed. They threw the oil cooler on their two-way cirulatory
pressure fluid cleaner for a few minutes, blew it out, and it was basically
like getting an "overhaul" on the spot. "Go upstairs and pay the lady 20
bucks." Cool! That was a bargain for an on-the-spot fix that included two
steel fittings! Anyway, an educational experience for sure. Use steel!
Pacific Oil Coolers saved my butt, took care of my walk in business, and
didn't rip me off. Good folks. http://www.oilcoolers.com
Ok...so when I got back to the airport I installed the new oil cooler,
hooked up the hoses, RTV'd the gaps, etc. I went flying (with Dave
Richardson...finally got him a ride!). I didn't have high expectations,
since the oil cooler was the same basic form factor. Pacific Oil Coolers
had said that I would probably see an improvement, and it may be a drastic
one, it may not. But they were sure I'd see an improvement.
It was dramatic.
We climbed from field elevation (650'MSL) to 8000' at 95-100 mph indicated
the whole way (I normally climb at about 125-130mph indicated). The temp
didn't go above 212F (OAT at 8000' was about 57F). Ok, could be a fluke,
just a cold start...let's see how it levelled out in cruise. Normally
before, when it would hit 220 in a climb, it would take forever to get back
down to 210 or so. Today, after levelling off, the oil temp quickly (within
a minute or two) settled down to 192. Woohoo!! That was at full throttle,
2500 RPM, leaned to within 75 of peak (on both sides).
After powering down to about 22" and 2400 RPM, it settled down around 182F.
Bitchin!
Then we flew about 3 or 4 patterns at French Valley. This would be a decent
test. For the first two patterns, it didn't go above 190. On the third, it
did go up to 210, then up to 214 on a 4000' climbout. Once levelling off at
cruise about 55-65% power, it came back down to 180. Nice, that's more like
it!
So if you're going to hang a 200hp IO-360 on your RV, I strongly advise
leaving whatever oil cooler Van's would otherwise send you out of your FWF
kit and going with the Stewart Warner. The next size up would be even
better, but I believe this 6-plate 8406R will do the job. We'll see how it
handles the worst days in summer...
Anyway, lots learned today, and I'm much happier that my engine is happy!
As I mentioned above, the old oil cooler is for sale. I think it would be a
perfectly good oil cooler on an O-360 or O-320.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
P.S. -- Van's, if you're listening...I respect that you promote using
lightweight components, but I think (a) aluminum fittings called out on the
plans is a bad idea, and (b) you shouldn't ship the 7-row Aero Classics oil
cooler with 200hp IO-360 FWF kits. I apologize in advance if my experience
is an anomaly (I don't believe so based on what I've heard from other
builders) and this recommendation is not solid.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Duckworks Light Instructions |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
FYI to the group for anyone else experiencing the same...I know at least one other
person (Karie) that had the outdated instructions.
Scott
RV7A Wings
www.scottsrv7a.com
From: Don & Janet Wentz [mailto:djwentz(at)centurytel.net]
Subject: RE: Duckworks Lights
Hi Scott,
1. Im sorry but you must have received an old set of instructions. We have
removed that from them now. You only need to drill holes A and B and you can
position the light forward for taxiing.
2. There is no reason other than cosmetically to paint the bracket. It is really
up to you whether you want it left as is or painted. We have seen people
do a variety of things. Some paint it black, some paint it the same as their
plane color, some leave it the bare aluminum color.
Continued Good Luck on your project, I hope this answers your questions.
Sincerely,
Janet Wentz
Duckworks Exp. Aircraft Parts
50641 Firridge Ave.
Scappoose, OR 97056
503-543-3653
www.duckworksaviation.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Scott_Haskins(at)Dell.com [mailto:Scott_Haskins(at)Dell.com]
Subject: Duckworks Lights
I purchased the duckworks light kit, and I had a couple of questions:
1) The instructions reference drilling three holes in each rib, but the template
only shows two (A and B). I understand the third is optional. I want to be
able to position one of the lights to shine forward (level) while taxiing. Will
I be able to do this by just drilling the two holes?
2) Do you recommend priming the bracket before installing, or just leaving bare
aluminum?
Thanks,
Scott
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS 430 cockpit readability |
I think the readability of the 430 isn't an issue, but the usability might
be. If you are going to use it for IFR you might want to look at some of
the alternatives... I fly with my Garmin 195 and find that I don't use the
430 for much of anything but a radio... YMMV. The 430 is really chunky to
change or input ATC course changes on the fly. I think AOPA said in last
month's issue that over 20 million hours of general aviation was flown VFR
in the last year and only a fraction of that was flown IFR. For most use
the 430 may be fine. If you do much IFR you might consider something else.
The 530 has some features like tcas that are interesting...
I won't fly without my hand held, and for me, it's enough. The 430 is nice,
but is it worth the money? Several of my friends have thought so, and I
have one. If I was to do it over I don't think it's what I'd go with, and
I think there might be a 530 in my future.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil Coolers |
Dan,
Good work, and your results match my own. For those that haven't seen it I
performed a similar test which can be seen at...
http://www.rv-8.com/FirewallForward.htm
Good information on the steel fitting with the aluminum cooler, didn't know
that. You can bet I'm going to use a real Stewart Warner, and one purchased
from Pacific Oil Coolers, on my new RV-3B
Randy Lervold
> Oil temp...
>
> FOR SALE: Used 7-row Aero Classics oil cooler model 8000075, mfr 02/03,
85
> hours. One corner of the rear mounting flange has been cleanly cut away
to
> clear the engine mount. This oil cooler should work absolutely fine on an
> O-360 or O-320. Van's sells it for $165...I will ship it (48 US) for $130
> or best offer. (I will post photos of it on www.rvproject.com tonight.)
>
> On my engine (200hp IO-360-A1B6), my oil temp has been running high since
> day one. Usually around 205 in cruise at 75% best power at 55F OAT. At
> lower OATs, say 45F, the oil temp would drop to 195. The biggest problem
> has been in the pattern, when the airspeed drops down to 90mph or
so...when
> doing pattern after pattern, the oil temp would get up into the 220s
easily.
>
> This is the "big" IO-360, which I've been told generates considerably more
> heat than the vastly different O-360. But for all 360 models, maximum oil
> inlet temp is 245F. Some have said my "high" oil temps are acceptable,
but
> I really want to shoot for under 200F for the long haul. 180 to 190 would
> be ideal. Interestingly, my CHTs have been nice and cool, around
330-350F.
> The highest CHT I've seen is about 375F in the worst of conditions. So
> baffling *probably* wasn't the problem.
>
> After break-in, the oil temp didn't really drop too much. Maybe 10
degrees
> or so on average. After break-in was done, I switched to AeroShell 15W50
> multigrade oil, which is what I've always used in my other planes and love
> it.
>
> Several folks advised me to use a straight 50-weight oil such as 100W, and
a
> few people said that their temps actually dropped 10 degrees or more when
> they switched to 100.
>
> At my last oil change a week ago, I switched to 100W. I flew several
hours
> and didn't notice any improvement...in fact, I saw the opposite effect if
> anything, maybe 5 degrees hotter oil temp on average.
>
> I had heard that just about everybody with the 200hp angle valve IO-360
has
> had oil temp problems with Van's "stock" oil cooler. Dan Masys, I
believe,
> switched to a 9-row and saw a major improvement. Well, I don't want to
> reconstruct my baffles if I don't have to...so...I wanted to experiment
with
> what is theoretically a more efficient oil cooler at the same form factor.
> I had read some reviews (thanks Randy) that the Stewart Warner oil coolers
> are the most efficient ones out there at any size.
>
> So today I broke down and drove up to Pacific Oil Coolers and bought a
> Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler. I slapped the $419 down (includes the
$25
> core) and bit the bullet. It's a 6-plate oil cooler, instead of a 7-row
> like the Aero Classics. The Stewart Warner cooler has larger fin area due
> to more space between plates. It's heavier, but it's much more durable.
> The end tanks are a much beefier design. The form factor is *almost*
> identical to the Aero Classics 7-row...close enough that I could just swap
> 'em and go. It's much more expensive, but let's see if it's worth it for
my
> particular setup...
>
> This afternoon I did the swap, but I hit a snag. Van's calls out using
> aluminum -8D fittings on the oil cooler as per their FWF plans. I know
most
> people advise using steel firewall forward, especially for fuel lines and
> stuff...and I did. But this was the exception. I just blindly followed
the
> plans. DO NOT USE ALUMINUM FITTINGS ON YOUR OIL COOLER. I learned this
the
> hard way. I threaded the fittings into the new oil cooler, the threads
> gauled. I even used a teflon pipe sealant paste -- the stuff that the
> AeroClassics cooler had come with originally (Loctite 565, a white teflon
> lube/paste). Despite that, the threads were destroyed. As I removed the
> aluminum fitting from the oil cooler, the threads broke off and chewed up
> the oil cooler's threads. Dag bernit!
>
> I drove back to Pacific Oil Coolers, and they were friggin' AWESOME. Paul
> got me right into a repair scenario...he had one of his techs take the
> cooler and re-tap it. They told me that you should never use aluminum
> fittings on an aluminum oil cooler...different grades of aluminum,
different
> rates of expansion/contraction, etc...not good. Wayne said that even
though
> the threads may look & feel fine, aluminum will gaul easily. USE STEEL
> FITTINGS. After cleaning the threads and tapping it, the tech pressure
> tested it to 180 psi in a water tank. After some teflon tape (they advise
> to USE TEFLON TAPE, not the paste...these are the oil cooler experts here,
> folks, I'm just repeating what they said) was applied to the fitting, the
> leak test passed. They threw the oil cooler on their two-way cirulatory
> pressure fluid cleaner for a few minutes, blew it out, and it was
basically
> like getting an "overhaul" on the spot. "Go upstairs and pay the lady 20
> bucks." Cool! That was a bargain for an on-the-spot fix that included
two
> steel fittings! Anyway, an educational experience for sure. Use steel!
> Pacific Oil Coolers saved my butt, took care of my walk in business, and
> didn't rip me off. Good folks. http://www.oilcoolers.com
>
> Ok...so when I got back to the airport I installed the new oil cooler,
> hooked up the hoses, RTV'd the gaps, etc. I went flying (with Dave
> Richardson...finally got him a ride!). I didn't have high expectations,
> since the oil cooler was the same basic form factor. Pacific Oil Coolers
> had said that I would probably see an improvement, and it may be a drastic
> one, it may not. But they were sure I'd see an improvement.
>
> It was dramatic.
>
> We climbed from field elevation (650'MSL) to 8000' at 95-100 mph indicated
> the whole way (I normally climb at about 125-130mph indicated). The temp
> didn't go above 212F (OAT at 8000' was about 57F). Ok, could be a fluke,
> just a cold start...let's see how it levelled out in cruise. Normally
> before, when it would hit 220 in a climb, it would take forever to get
back
> down to 210 or so. Today, after levelling off, the oil temp quickly
(within
> a minute or two) settled down to 192. Woohoo!! That was at full
throttle,
> 2500 RPM, leaned to within 75 of peak (on both sides).
>
> After powering down to about 22" and 2400 RPM, it settled down around
182F.
> Bitchin!
>
> Then we flew about 3 or 4 patterns at French Valley. This would be a
decent
> test. For the first two patterns, it didn't go above 190. On the third,
it
> did go up to 210, then up to 214 on a 4000' climbout. Once levelling off
at
> cruise about 55-65% power, it came back down to 180. Nice, that's more
like
> it!
>
> So if you're going to hang a 200hp IO-360 on your RV, I strongly advise
> leaving whatever oil cooler Van's would otherwise send you out of your FWF
> kit and going with the Stewart Warner. The next size up would be even
> better, but I believe this 6-plate 8406R will do the job. We'll see how
it
> handles the worst days in summer...
>
> Anyway, lots learned today, and I'm much happier that my engine is happy!
> As I mentioned above, the old oil cooler is for sale. I think it would be
a
> perfectly good oil cooler on an O-360 or O-320.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> P.S. -- Van's, if you're listening...I respect that you promote using
> lightweight components, but I think (a) aluminum fittings called out on
the
> plans is a bad idea, and (b) you shouldn't ship the 7-row Aero Classics
oil
> cooler with 200hp IO-360 FWF kits. I apologize in advance if my
experience
> is an anomaly (I don't believe so based on what I've heard from other
> builders) and this recommendation is not solid.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
3.6 ALT_MED Misspelled medication name
Though you would find interesting that the FAA has introduced FREE
digital charting on-line with the availability of instrument approaches,
procedures, airport diagrams, and other interesting stuff. Now I know
you can get these in other places. But here is the catch. These are not
scanned crappy images. These are digital, legal, up to date, printable,
pdf's, high quality plates and airport diagrams.
Images are 250kb ish in size.
It appears that they will also be doing other charting items in the
future so keep your eyes peeled.
Enjoy,
http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xmlnaco/onlineproducts
Michael Stewart
Always looking for cool web stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS 430 cockpit readability |
I've had the 430 in my 6A for two years and love it. No problem with
readability in any condition. Like any box of this magnitude it takes some
dedication to learning how it functions but with most Garmin stuff it is
straight forward and logical. For what it's worth, I work for a flight
training firm that sees all of the many boxes out there and it is their firm
belief that the 430/530 is the best package available and that the CNX80 is
an absolute nightmare to operate. This is coming from the "techie guys" who
love new boxes. As to whether an IFR box is worth it? That's a personal
call. It is true that most of your flying will be VFR and you pay a very big
premium to make your plane IFR.
John Furey
2nd RV6A IFR Equipped
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Rear Baggage Door |
vansairforce
Has anyone put a baggage door on the side of the fuse for accessing the rear
baggage compartment in an -8?
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available |
| From: | "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org> |
Mike,
Thanks for the heads up... now that's something worthy of blowing my tax
$$$ on.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael
(ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RV-List: Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available
Though you would find interesting that the FAA has introduced FREE
digital charting on-line with the availability of instrument approaches,
procedures, airport diagrams, and other interesting stuff. Now I know
you can get these in other places. But here is the catch. These are not
scanned crappy images. These are digital, legal, up to date, printable,
pdf's, high quality plates and airport diagrams.
Images are 250kb ish in size.
It appears that they will also be doing other charting items in the
future so keep your eyes peeled.
Enjoy,
http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xmlnaco/onlineproducts
Michael Stewart
Always looking for cool web stuff.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS 430 cockpit readability |
David,
I really got to disagree with you on this one.
I got my IFR ticket last year in a 172....yuck. In the mean time, I'd
been flying my RV-6 with a Gamrin 250XL (VFR GPS/comm).
After I got my ticket, naturally, I had to upgrade the RV. I chose the
430 for a couple of reasons, that I won't go into.
I'll admit it took a little time in the manual, but now I'm very
comfortable in the system using the 430, and we get a LOT of radar
vectors down here in SoCal.
If your only using it for a radio, it's time to hit the book, and I'd
also get the training video ($30) from Garmin. That really helped me
get into what the programmers were thinking.
Regards,
Laird
On May 19, 2004, at 9:43 PM, David Burton wrote:
>
> I think the readability of the 430 isn't an issue, but the usability
> might
> be. If you are going to use it for IFR you might want to look at some
> of
> the alternatives... I fly with my Garmin 195 and find that I don't
> use the
> 430 for much of anything but a radio... YMMV. The 430 is really
> chunky to
> change or input ATC course changes on the fly. I think AOPA said in
> last
> month's issue that over 20 million hours of general aviation was flown
> VFR
> in the last year and only a fraction of that was flown IFR. For most
> use
> the 430 may be fine. If you do much IFR you might consider something
> else.
> The 530 has some features like tcas that are interesting...
> I won't fly without my hand held, and for me, it's enough. The 430 is
> nice,
> but is it worth the money? Several of my friends have thought so, and
> I
> have one. If I was to do it over I don't think it's what I'd go
> with, and
> I think there might be a 530 in my future.
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor for sale |
How Much for the whole mess?
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bertrv6(at)highstream.net |
| Subject: | RV's non related |
Hi:
Need some help, on how I can get Windows 98 program. I cannot find any place
here in Orlando, that sell 98 Windows.
This is the one I have on my p.C. and I have lost, my only copy...I even
caontacted Microsoft, and they told me they do not sell this or does not know
where can be purchased...That does not sound logic to me....
So any suggestions, or I am forced to get the 2000, edition, which I
heard, might give me a lot of trouble why?
Any comments, thanks
Bert
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | FOR SALE: O-320-E3D |
vansairforce
I am posting this for a friend of mine... Please contact him directly...
Lycoming O-320-E3D
* NO HISTORY
Comes with flywheel, starter, engine driven fuel pump, slick mags, oil
filter...
* no carb...
crankshaft and cam look good
* needs overhaul...
$3500 + you pay freight
719-660-8650
craftsman(at)freeflightcomposites.com
same info + photo here:
http://www.vondane.com/forsale/index.htm#e3d
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morocketman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Second Annual Rebel's Bluff FlyIn |
Hi Everybody, Just wanted to invite you to the Second Annual Rebel's Bluff
FlyIn. Rebel's Bluff (named after a Civil War event) is located at N37 06.1,
and W93 52.2, about 2 miles NNE of Mt Vernon Municipal Airport (2MO), Mt Vernon,
MISSOURI. Last year we had 27 RV's and one Harmon Rocket II. As well as 21
other airplanes. Thank you all for coming. Some of this years visitors have
promised some very interesting airplanes as well. We will have lunch provided
by the local Boy Scout Troop, and dinner will be a steak or chicken Bar-B-Que
with all the trimmings for about $8. Please RSVP for dinner. Stay overnight
on-the-field-camping, or the local Super 8 has offered $50 rooms for double
occupancy. Avgas 100LL will be available for cost or about $2.25. Let me
know if you need auto gas. This is just a FlyIn for fun and camaraderie, and I
do it for your pleasure. There are no vendors, or sales pitches. I made the
airstrip to enjoy and share with all of you. Let's make this the largest
RV/Rocket FlyIn in the Midwest. Thank you, Les Featherston 417-466-4663
PS
My Harmon Rocket II, Airgasm, will be making her introduction with new paint
scheme.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Slider Canopy RIvet Holes |
| From: | tacaruth(at)ralcorp.com |
05/20/2004 10:41:04 AM
Hi All,
I have trimmed the sliding 7A canopy and am ready to drill the holes to the
front and rear canopy tubes. It says on the plans to use a 2" spacing. My
question is how close to the lower edge do you continue with the holes? My
canopy is trimmed about 1/4" above the square horizontal tubes. When I
look at the side skirts and braces, etc, I see alot of holes for holding
these on also. I worry about having the holes too close together in the
lower most hole above the square tube. The lowest hole would be about 1"
above the lower edge of the plexiglass. How have others that have gone
before handled this? Should I just temporarily leave out the lower hole
until the side skirts are installed and then go back and add a last rive,
if needed? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks in advanc,
Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> Coolers |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil |
Coolers
Coolers
At 07:47 PM 5/19/2004, you wrote:
>
>Oil temp...
Good info, Dan, but I have a couple of questions.
1. Why do you want oil to run cold? Hot, thinner oil creates less
friction and helps contaminents boil off.
2. How did you verify the accuracy of your oil temp gauge?
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | ExteriorPaintPrepWorries |
For a long time I've been worried about using phosphoric acid based cleaners such
as alumiprep and chromic acid conversion coatings such as alodine to prepare
the exterior of my RV8A for paint. The fear was that some would leak inside
and damage what was primed.
Today I prepared a small bracket which I made from scrap that I primed on one side
with Deft 44GN11. The primer was unaffected. I suspect other water thinned
epoxy primers might be equally robust. Now I only have to worry about the
quick build primed parts.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil Coolers |
> 1. Why do you want oil to run cold? Hot, thinner oil creates less
> friction and helps contaminents boil off.
I'm just following the experts' recommendation, that the ideal oil temp is
about 185-195. I don't want to find out if there are long term effects if
the oil temp is consistently 10-20 degrees hotter than that. 8-)
> 2. How did you verify the accuracy of your oil temp gauge?
It came pre-calibrated from Advanced Control Systems. You might think I'm
nuts, but I have a lot of faith in them and their process.
)_( Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Paint booth ventilation |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
05/20/2004 10:25:33 AM,
Serialize complete at 05/20/2004 10:25:33 AM
It has been a while since I've seen this topic on the list, and I didn't
find anybody who mentioned using boat bilge pumps as exhaust fans. Bilge
pumps have sealed motors (or brushless motors) so they can operate in an
explosive environment. Something like this:
http://www.boatersland.com/rul240.html
Does anybody know if they all can be operated in an explosive environment
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dj Merrill <deej(at)thayer.dartmouth.edu> |
| Subject: | Re: RV's non related |
bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:
> Need some help, on how I can get Windows 98 program. I cannot find any place
> here in Orlando, that sell 98 Windows.
I bet you could find a copy on Ebay.
-Dj
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
I am forwarding this message to the lists at the request of the person
below...
> I am interested in purchasing a flying RV-3 with the latest wing mods and
> the fuel tanks in the wings. I once owned RV-3A s/n 001. I'm definitely
NOT
> looking for a gold plated showplane, and I am NOT going to make someone's
> financial retirement dreams come true on one deal. However, I have cash in
> hand and am ready to buy within a few days. If you know someone with an
> updated RV-3 who needs money for their RV-10 project, I might be the right
> guy.
>
> Bill Berle
> Los Angeles, CA
> 818-990-2748
> victorbravo(at)sbcglobal.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic IFC" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
| Subject: | CNX80 Documentation |
Anybody out there have an electronic copy of the CNX80 installation manual?
If so, could you send me a copy?
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available |
I went there - you have to drill down through the links on left side: Click
"Aeronautical Charting" then "On-line Products"(this is a good one to "book
mark") then either "digital- TPP" or "Airport Diagrams" then select the
"effective dates" you want - for inst apch procedures this is at
http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xml=naco/online/d_tpp
After you click the effective date, you get the map of US and click state,
then enter aprt identifier.
If you navigate a different route, you'll see stuff about subscription
prices - ignore that and keep going until you get to the page where you
enter your airport identifier and print the thing you want -for free.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Subject: RV-List: Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available
>
> Though you would find interesting that the FAA has introduced FREE
> digital charting on-line with the availability of instrument approaches,
> procedures, airport diagrams, and other interesting stuff. Now I know
> you can get these in other places. But here is the catch. These are not
> scanned crappy images. These are digital, legal, up to date, printable,
> pdf's, high quality plates and airport diagrams.
>
> Images are 250kb ish in size.
>
> It appears that they will also be doing other charting items in the
> future so keep your eyes peeled.
>
> Enjoy,
>
> http://avn.faa.gov/index.asp?xmlnaco/onlineproducts
>
> Michael Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | All Glass Certification |
Has anyone been able to get an all electric, all glass instrument panel certified
for IFR or VFR? I really want to avoid putting any round dials on my panel
if possible.
Also, has anyone used an inspector in the Memphis, TN area other than the one at
the local FSDO?
Thanks,
Steve
7QB
MEM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
the readability and useability of the 430 is just fine in all situations at
all sunlight angles in most parts of the country... I haven't been to every
part with it yet...
I would suggest you download the 430/530 demonstrator and practice with it
if it seems to be cluncky to work. I find it no harder than using any of the
other garmin handhelds, and its a lot easier than using the anywhere map.
That one is great for viewing but a pain to enter stuff into,,, its too
small to hit on bumpy days.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern Darley,II" <vern(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Aircraft Spruce East Grand Opening at KFFC (Peachtree City, Georgia) |
Our 'next door neighbor' at the Falcon RV Squadron here in Peachtree City, Georgia, will be having a giant event with everything on sale this Saturday May 22,2004.They say they will have some factory reps and special pricing on some items. For details see: http://www.aircraftspruce.com/east.html
We hope to have one of the Squadron RVs on display. Our hanger (D-30) will be opened
for general hospitality if you're heading our way.Park on our ramp if you
care too. We'll try to have softdrinks,a bathroom,and shade for RV'ers.
Vern Darley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Thanks Dan,
this has been my experience as well. the S/Ws work, the rest ????
My latest pending change is to move mine onto the interior plenum rear
baffle rather than using the FW mount and 3" hose as I still get into the
230s on a Sedona Day climb out to altitude. Even in slow flight with low
power it will eventually get hot using the 3" hose.
I have long wondered if the extra airflow to the cooler will cause higher
CHTs but I am now getting convinced that the plenum will just take in more
air.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop Governor for sale |
$850 and I'll pay the shipping!
Tommy
----- Original Message -----
From: RGray67968(at)aol.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, May 20, 2004 10:24 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop Governor for sale
How Much for the whole mess?
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
Aeroelectric List
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
The neatest and easiest FM antenna I have seen was on Razzmatazz, an
award winning RV-6A out of Tampa, FL. The builder used a rubber ducky
antenna mounted low on the forward right side of the firewall and
extending horizontally into the engine compartment. As I remember, he
had a panel mounted AM/FM/CD radio. The pilot reported he got great AM
and FM reception.
Charlie
San Antonio
From: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Making FM Antenna
--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: SportAV8R(at)aol.com
In a message dated 5/19/2004 1:06:31 PM Eastern Daylight Time, N27160
writes:
> Can anybody send me to a site that might have material on
> making a D.I.Y.
> flexible wire antenna for a auto type FM radio?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mbick" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | RV Builder in Charlotte |
I am looking for an RV4 builder in the Charlotte, NC area to take a look at
the work so far. I bought a kit that has been started and I am in the
process of finishing but would like to have an "Expert" take a look.
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: All Glass Certification |
First of all, you don't have to "certify" anything. Second, just about
anything you can put in an experimental, short of a nuclear warhead will be
approved. To answer your question, yes, you could put an all glass cockpit
in an experimental and get your airworthiness certficate, with either IFR or
VFR operation. I can't think of anything off hand that requires any "round
dial" type guages. Now, why you would not want a backup "round dial" guage
for altimeter/airpspeed/turn indicator is another discussion.
Be sure you meet the minimum equipment requirements per the FAR's for VFR or
IFR flight, depending on what your goal is.
You can get a list of local DAR's from the FSDO. I would recommend getting
with a local EAA chapter and seeing who other RV builders have used.
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Someday
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: All Glass Certification
>
> Has anyone been able to get an all electric, all glass instrument panel
certified for IFR or VFR? I really want to avoid putting any round dials on
my panel if possible.
>
> Also, has anyone used an inspector in the Memphis, TN area other than the
one at the local FSDO?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
> 7QB
> MEM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Second Annual Rebel's Bluff FlyIn |
WHEN IS IT?
Doug Preston
BHM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | All Glass Certification |
Steve, You do not get a panel certified for IFR. It is the responsibility
of the pilot to determine if he/she has the instruments and radios to comply
with the requirements of FAR 91.205(e). The Operating Limitations that will
be issued will either say that the aircraft is restricted to Day VFR only or
that it is restricted to Day VFR unless appropriately equipped for night
and/or IFR operations. If your inspector or DAR says otherwise then ask him
to look in Order 8130.2E for the proper wording.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: All Glass Certification
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:45:07 -0500
>
>
>Has anyone been able to get an all electric, all glass instrument panel
>certified for IFR or VFR? I really want to avoid putting any round dials
>on my panel if possible.
>
>Also, has anyone used an inspector in the Memphis, TN area other than the
>one at the local FSDO?
>
>Thanks,
>Steve
>7QB
>MEM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Wing Root Fairing |
Listers,
I cannot easily visualize what the designer had in mind with the shape of the RV-6
series wing root fairings. The center bottom of drawing 46 depicts a 1/4 scale
illustration of the 69" long fairing. One side is sheared straight and the
other has an undulating curve. By casually laying the uncut fairing against
the structure and clamping its aft edge even with the aft edge of the upper wing
skin, it seems to me that so much material will ultimately by trimmed off as
waste that that either side can be positioned facing the fuselage. Right or
wrong?
Is 2-1/2" the ideal fastener spacing distance (as per the
tie in of the center belly/wing skin) or is better spacing suggested?
Also, while I'm picking brains here......what is the optimum fairing-to-fuselage
gap that assures a good tight fit of the rubber seal?
Any "gotcha's" I should be on the alert for? Thanks for any input.
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob U." <rv3(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
>
>The neatest and easiest FM antenna I have seen was on Razzmatazz, an
>award winning RV-6A out of Tampa, FL. The builder used a rubber ducky
>antenna mounted low on the forward right side of the firewall and
>extending horizontally into the engine compartment. As I remember, he
>had a panel mounted AM/FM/CD radio. The pilot reported he got great AM
>and FM reception.
>
>Charlie
>San Antonio
>
I've been running a rubber ducky auto antenna on my aluminum boat for 14
years.
Performance is superb to date.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Slider Canopy RIvet Holes |
Tom,
One inch above the bottom edge of the plexi would be fine. On mine I had a
case where about 1/2 of a rivet shows under the side skirt. At one inch you
won't have this problem.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost ready to go to the airport for final assembly)
In a message dated 5/20/04 10:44:30 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
tacaruth(at)ralcorp.com writes:
>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have trimmed the sliding 7A canopy and am ready to drill the holes to the
> front and rear canopy tubes. It says on the plans to use a 2" spacing. My
> question is how close to the lower edge do you continue with the holes? My
> canopy is trimmed about 1/4" above the square horizontal tubes. When I
> look at the side skirts and braces, etc, I see alot of holes for holding
> these on also. I worry about having the holes too close together in the
> lower most hole above the square tube. The lowest hole would be about 1"
> above the lower edge of the plexiglass. How have others that have gone
> before handled this? Should I just temporarily leave out the lower hole
> until the side skirts are installed and then go back and add a last rive,
> if needed? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advanc,
> Tom
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Making FM Antenna |
Or, you can use an antenna splitter (used to connect 2 nav's to 1
antenna) and just use your VOR antenna. It works great for FM, however
it will very effectively filter out AM.
Dave
Bob U. wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>The neatest and easiest FM antenna I have seen was on Razzmatazz, an
>>award winning RV-6A out of Tampa, FL. The builder used a rubber ducky
>>antenna mounted low on the forward right side of the firewall and
>>extending horizontally into the engine compartment. As I remember, he
>>had a panel mounted AM/FM/CD radio. The pilot reported he got great AM
>>and FM reception.
>>
>>Charlie
>>San Antonio
>>
>>
>>
>
>I've been running a rubber ducky auto antenna on my aluminum boat for 14
>years.
>Performance is superb to date.
>
>
>Bob
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil Coolers |
Dan,
Just curious, did you happen to calibrate your oil temp transducer on your
ACS 2002? Reason I ask is that I dropped mine in boiling water and found
that it read 230 degrees at boiling point, some 18 degrees high. I
recalibrated and it now reads correct even at room temp. I just took a
small pot and heated it using a propane bottle right near the engine so I
didn't have to remove the wiring. Wouldn't it be nice if you could get
another 18 degrees!
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 Finishing Kit
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
; ;
""
Subject: RV-List: WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil Coolers
>
> Oil temp...
>
> FOR SALE: Used 7-row Aero Classics oil cooler model 8000075, mfr 02/03,
85
> hours. One corner of the rear mounting flange has been cleanly cut away
to
> clear the engine mount. This oil cooler should work absolutely fine on an
> O-360 or O-320. Van's sells it for $165...I will ship it (48 US) for $130
> or best offer. (I will post photos of it on www.rvproject.com tonight.)
>
> On my engine (200hp IO-360-A1B6), my oil temp has been running high since
> day one. Usually around 205 in cruise at 75% best power at 55F OAT. At
> lower OATs, say 45F, the oil temp would drop to 195. The biggest problem
> has been in the pattern, when the airspeed drops down to 90mph or
so...when
> doing pattern after pattern, the oil temp would get up into the 220s
easily.
>
> This is the "big" IO-360, which I've been told generates considerably more
> heat than the vastly different O-360. But for all 360 models, maximum oil
> inlet temp is 245F. Some have said my "high" oil temps are acceptable,
but
> I really want to shoot for under 200F for the long haul. 180 to 190 would
> be ideal. Interestingly, my CHTs have been nice and cool, around
330-350F.
> The highest CHT I've seen is about 375F in the worst of conditions. So
> baffling *probably* wasn't the problem.
>
> After break-in, the oil temp didn't really drop too much. Maybe 10
degrees
> or so on average. After break-in was done, I switched to AeroShell 15W50
> multigrade oil, which is what I've always used in my other planes and love
> it.
>
> Several folks advised me to use a straight 50-weight oil such as 100W, and
a
> few people said that their temps actually dropped 10 degrees or more when
> they switched to 100.
>
> At my last oil change a week ago, I switched to 100W. I flew several
hours
> and didn't notice any improvement...in fact, I saw the opposite effect if
> anything, maybe 5 degrees hotter oil temp on average.
>
> I had heard that just about everybody with the 200hp angle valve IO-360
has
> had oil temp problems with Van's "stock" oil cooler. Dan Masys, I
believe,
> switched to a 9-row and saw a major improvement. Well, I don't want to
> reconstruct my baffles if I don't have to...so...I wanted to experiment
with
> what is theoretically a more efficient oil cooler at the same form factor.
> I had read some reviews (thanks Randy) that the Stewart Warner oil coolers
> are the most efficient ones out there at any size.
>
> So today I broke down and drove up to Pacific Oil Coolers and bought a
> Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler. I slapped the $419 down (includes the
$25
> core) and bit the bullet. It's a 6-plate oil cooler, instead of a 7-row
> like the Aero Classics. The Stewart Warner cooler has larger fin area due
> to more space between plates. It's heavier, but it's much more durable.
> The end tanks are a much beefier design. The form factor is *almost*
> identical to the Aero Classics 7-row...close enough that I could just swap
> 'em and go. It's much more expensive, but let's see if it's worth it for
my
> particular setup...
>
> This afternoon I did the swap, but I hit a snag. Van's calls out using
> aluminum -8D fittings on the oil cooler as per their FWF plans. I know
most
> people advise using steel firewall forward, especially for fuel lines and
> stuff...and I did. But this was the exception. I just blindly followed
the
> plans. DO NOT USE ALUMINUM FITTINGS ON YOUR OIL COOLER. I learned this
the
> hard way. I threaded the fittings into the new oil cooler, the threads
> gauled. I even used a teflon pipe sealant paste -- the stuff that the
> AeroClassics cooler had come with originally (Loctite 565, a white teflon
> lube/paste). Despite that, the threads were destroyed. As I removed the
> aluminum fitting from the oil cooler, the threads broke off and chewed up
> the oil cooler's threads. Dag bernit!
>
> I drove back to Pacific Oil Coolers, and they were friggin' AWESOME. Paul
> got me right into a repair scenario...he had one of his techs take the
> cooler and re-tap it. They told me that you should never use aluminum
> fittings on an aluminum oil cooler...different grades of aluminum,
different
> rates of expansion/contraction, etc...not good. Wayne said that even
though
> the threads may look & feel fine, aluminum will gaul easily. USE STEEL
> FITTINGS. After cleaning the threads and tapping it, the tech pressure
> tested it to 180 psi in a water tank. After some teflon tape (they advise
> to USE TEFLON TAPE, not the paste...these are the oil cooler experts here,
> folks, I'm just repeating what they said) was applied to the fitting, the
> leak test passed. They threw the oil cooler on their two-way cirulatory
> pressure fluid cleaner for a few minutes, blew it out, and it was
basically
> like getting an "overhaul" on the spot. "Go upstairs and pay the lady 20
> bucks." Cool! That was a bargain for an on-the-spot fix that included
two
> steel fittings! Anyway, an educational experience for sure. Use steel!
> Pacific Oil Coolers saved my butt, took care of my walk in business, and
> didn't rip me off. Good folks. http://www.oilcoolers.com
>
> Ok...so when I got back to the airport I installed the new oil cooler,
> hooked up the hoses, RTV'd the gaps, etc. I went flying (with Dave
> Richardson...finally got him a ride!). I didn't have high expectations,
> since the oil cooler was the same basic form factor. Pacific Oil Coolers
> had said that I would probably see an improvement, and it may be a drastic
> one, it may not. But they were sure I'd see an improvement.
>
> It was dramatic.
>
> We climbed from field elevation (650'MSL) to 8000' at 95-100 mph indicated
> the whole way (I normally climb at about 125-130mph indicated). The temp
> didn't go above 212F (OAT at 8000' was about 57F). Ok, could be a fluke,
> just a cold start...let's see how it levelled out in cruise. Normally
> before, when it would hit 220 in a climb, it would take forever to get
back
> down to 210 or so. Today, after levelling off, the oil temp quickly
(within
> a minute or two) settled down to 192. Woohoo!! That was at full
throttle,
> 2500 RPM, leaned to within 75 of peak (on both sides).
>
> After powering down to about 22" and 2400 RPM, it settled down around
182F.
> Bitchin!
>
> Then we flew about 3 or 4 patterns at French Valley. This would be a
decent
> test. For the first two patterns, it didn't go above 190. On the third,
it
> did go up to 210, then up to 214 on a 4000' climbout. Once levelling off
at
> cruise about 55-65% power, it came back down to 180. Nice, that's more
like
> it!
>
> So if you're going to hang a 200hp IO-360 on your RV, I strongly advise
> leaving whatever oil cooler Van's would otherwise send you out of your FWF
> kit and going with the Stewart Warner. The next size up would be even
> better, but I believe this 6-plate 8406R will do the job. We'll see how
it
> handles the worst days in summer...
>
> Anyway, lots learned today, and I'm much happier that my engine is happy!
> As I mentioned above, the old oil cooler is for sale. I think it would be
a
> perfectly good oil cooler on an O-360 or O-320.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> P.S. -- Van's, if you're listening...I respect that you promote using
> lightweight components, but I think (a) aluminum fittings called out on
the
> plans is a bad idea, and (b) you shouldn't ship the 7-row Aero Classics
oil
> cooler with 200hp IO-360 FWF kits. I apologize in advance if my
experience
> is an anomaly (I don't believe so based on what I've heard from other
> builders) and this recommendation is not solid.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | gear leg fairings & centering ball |
My 6 has been flying about 75 hours now and am zeroing in on aligning gear leg
fairings. I have been flying with no wheel pants and the ball flies to the right
a little, with wheel pants the same, with gear leg fairings is where it gets
touchy--I can align the fairings to the point that the ball flies to the left,
bringing them to a place where the ball flies centered in cruise. The question
is--is there anything wrong with adjusting for yaw using gear leg fairings
instead of a rudder trim tab?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: gear leg fairings & centering ball |
My RV was similar to yours with the gear leg fairings off. I kept the
fairing straight and used a small rudder tab because I thought (and
this is pure speculation) that because of the longer moment on the
rudder, it would take less force (and therefore drag) to move the tail
back in the right spot.
Now that's my story and I'm sticking to it until someone else comes up
with a better line of BS :-)
Laird
On May 20, 2004, at 9:13 PM, Dave Ford wrote:
>
> My 6 has been flying about 75 hours now and am zeroing in on aligning
> gear leg fairings. I have been flying with no wheel pants and the
> ball flies to the right a little, with wheel pants the same, with gear
> leg fairings is where it gets touchy--I can align the fairings to the
> point that the ball flies to the left, bringing them to a place where
> the ball flies centered in cruise. The question is--is there anything
> wrong with adjusting for yaw using gear leg fairings instead of a
> rudder trim tab?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | WOW!!!! Oil temp, Stewart Warner, Pacific Oil Coolers |
>
> Just curious, did you happen to calibrate your oil temp
> transducer on your ACS 2002? Reason I ask is that I dropped
> mine in boiling water and found that it read 230 degrees at
> boiling point, some 18 degrees high. I recalibrated and it
> now reads correct even at room temp. I just took a small pot
> and heated it using a propane bottle right near the engine so
> I didn't have to remove the wiring. Wouldn't it be nice if
> you could get another 18 degrees!
A fellow here with an ACS monitor claims that he saw a large (was it 25+
degrees?) drop when he switched to multi weight oil from his break-in
oil, everything else being equal. My engineering mind doesn't buy that
the drop was real. Perhaps there is some strange thing with
calibration? Boiling water is a good check, as long as you know the
boiling point of water at your elevation.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 469 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Root Fairing |
In a message dated 5/20/04 6:32:11 PM Central Daylight Time, rick6a(at)yahoo.com
writes:
> I cannot easily visualize what the designer had in mind with the shape of
> the RV-6 series wing root fairings. The center bottom of drawing 46 depicts a
> 1/4 scale illustration of the 69" long fairing. One side is sheared straight
> and the other has an undulating curve. By casually laying the uncut fairing
> against the structure and clamping its aft edge even with the aft edge of the
> upper wing skin, it seems to me that so much material will ultimately by
> trimmed off as waste that that either side can be positioned facing the fuselage.
> Right or wrong?
>
> Is 2-1/2" the ideal fastener spacing distance (as per the
> tie in of the center belly/wing skin) or is better spacing suggested?
>
> Also, while I'm picking brains here......what is the optimum
> fairing-to-fuselage gap that assures a good tight fit of the rubber seal?
>
> Any "gotcha's" I should be on the alert for? Thanks for any input.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
You'll probably trim both sides eventually. Lay it up against the fuse as
you describe and take a fat sharpie, hold it vertically against the fuse with
the tip on the fairing and draw a line all the way around. (the bottom is a
little weird- just estimate) Zip this off on your bandsaw and repeat if necessay.
You should get your rubber seal and a piece of scrap to play with to
determine the optimum gap. Cut a little piece of seal off the end, install it
on the
scrap and press it down on another surface so you get the result you want.
Just remember you can always take more off the fairing if it's too tight. I've
seen some of the seals pressed up against the fuse tight enough to almost lay
flat on the side of the fuse, others that barely touched. Mine are about
1/2" or maybe a little more, (estimate- plane is at airport)
Screw spacing is determined by what you did with your inboard rivet spacing
on the main rib and tank end rib. I left out every other rivet and installed
#6 nutplates after fitting the fairing. Of course lay this out carefully to
avoid drilling into the tank or spar! I drew a rib centerline on the skins,
laid out the hole locations, then drew another line about 6" outboard of the
first, then drew a perpendicular from the second line to the screw locations and
carefully measured the length of each perpendicular and wrote it on the skin
next to the perpendicular for each screw. Clamp the fairing in final position,
lay your scale along the perpendicular, measure to the hole location and
drill. Worked great. Once you have the screw locations finalized, you can trim
the outboard edge to be closer to the screws, being careful again to not trim
too much and expose the edges of the wing/tank skins. You might also want to
use the edge rolling tool along here, just remember to do it BEFORE you dimple!
One tip- after wrestling with trying to keep the seal on the fairing to
install it, I taped the seal to the fairing with electrical tape (on the outside,
of course!) and starting at the rear, used silver clecos into the nutplates to
get the thing in position before shooting the screws.
All this worked pretty well for me, YMMV- You could always roll yer own out
of effinglass! 8-)
Mark- -6A, 75 hours, getting ready for paint & almost DONE with the
effinglass!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slider Canopy RIvet Holes |
| From: | tacaruth(at)ralcorp.com |
05/21/2004 08:06:18 AM
Thanks Dan,
I was worried that this last hole would be too close to the top screw.
Van's never states what the minimum hole to hole distance is, or the
minimum hole to edge distance for the plexiglass. I'm pretty good at
following these type of rules if I know what they are. It would be a shame
to have the canopy crack at a later time due to a very avoidable situation.
Thanks again,
Tom
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Sent by:
owner-rv-list-ser To
ver(at)matronics.com rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc
05/20/2004 07:42 Subject
PM Re: RV-List: Slider Canopy RIvet
Holes
Please respond to
rv-list@matronics
.com
Tom,
One inch above the bottom edge of the plexi would be fine. On mine I had a
case where about 1/2 of a rivet shows under the side skirt. At one inch
you
won't have this problem.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (almost ready to go to the airport for final assembly)
In a message dated 5/20/04 10:44:30 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
tacaruth(at)ralcorp.com writes:
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have trimmed the sliding 7A canopy and am ready to drill the holes to
the
> front and rear canopy tubes. It says on the plans to use a 2" spacing.
My
> question is how close to the lower edge do you continue with the holes?
My
> canopy is trimmed about 1/4" above the square horizontal tubes. When I
> look at the side skirts and braces, etc, I see alot of holes for holding
> these on also. I worry about having the holes too close together in the
> lower most hole above the square tube. The lowest hole would be about 1"
> above the lower edge of the plexiglass. How have others that have gone
> before handled this? Should I just temporarily leave out the lower hole
> until the side skirts are installed and then go back and add a last rive,
> if needed? Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks in advanc,
> Tom
If you are not the intended addressee indicated in this message (or
responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy
message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
immediately if you or your employer do not consent to internet email for
messages of this kind.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! - Positech Oil Coolers |
Dan,
Thanks for the great update.
I would like to provide our experience with Positech Oil coolers on our
IO-360 (200 hp).
We ordered our Positech cooler from Vans and from the beginning we had high
oil temps. We had heard that the 200 hp generated a lot of heat but short of
running in the 21" area could not keep the temps down (below 220). We moved
the cooler from the rear baffle to the firewall - which made it worse.
We called Brain at Positech and explained our situation - he said the
original cooler had the flow tubes to close together and air was damming up
rather than passing thru - providing required airflow. He sent an updated
unit (no charge) and we reinstalled it on the rear baffle - behind cyl 4.
Since that time our oil temps have been very good. On our flight to S-N-F
last month - Oil temps were in the 170 - 190 range).
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A (200 hp)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Wheeler,
If I understand your question - you are concerned about increased CHT on cyl
4 where the oil cooler in mounted against on the rear baffle. Our experience
and a number of other RV-8 builders is that Cyl 4 is the coolest cyl. The
consensis is that the airflow thru the oil cooler also provides additional
cooling ( in addition to the air forced thru the cyl - down) and hence lower
CHT.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A (200hp)
>From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'rv-list(at)matronics.com'"
>Subject: RV-List: oil coolers
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 12:50:16 -0700
>
>
>Thanks Dan,
>
>this has been my experience as well. the S/Ws work, the rest ????
>
>My latest pending change is to move mine onto the interior plenum rear
>baffle rather than using the FW mount and 3" hose as I still get into the
>230s on a Sedona Day climb out to altitude. Even in slow flight with low
>power it will eventually get hot using the 3" hose.
>
>I have long wondered if the extra airflow to the cooler will cause higher
>CHTs but I am now getting convinced that the plenum will just take in more
>air.
>
>W
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Lwfeatherston(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Second Annual Rebel's Bluff FlyIn |
Sorry folks, but I just learned something. If you want to attract a lot of
attention to your FlyIn don't publish the date! Everyone is invited to the
Second Annual Rebel's Bluff RV FlyIn on June 5th. Let's begin at about 10:00AM.
All aircraft are welcome! Even drive in's if you are still "poundin'
rivets."
Rebel's Bluff Airstrip is 2,200' of very nice sod, located 2 miles
NNE of Mt Vernon Municipal airport, Mt Vernon, MISSOURI, (2MO). The lat/longs
are N37 06.1 and W93 52.2. Generally, it is 150 miles south of Kansas City,
and 150 east of Tulsa. Lunch will be provided by
the local Boy Scout troop. Last year we had 27 RV's and one Harmon Rocket II.
Some other interesting airplanes always show up, such as Stearman's, etc. If
you can stay overnight, there is a nice campsite on the field. Also, the
local Super 8 will be available for $50 double occupancy.
Dinner will be a Steak or Bar-B-Que
Chicken affair with all the trimmings for about $8. You must RSVP for dinner.
We
had a great time last year. There will be Avgas 100LL available at cost,
estimated to be $2.25. If you need autogas please let me know. Please come and
make this the largest RV event in the Midwest. Contact Les Featherston
417-466-4663 or lwfeatherston(at)AOL.com for any information that I left out this
time.
Thank you, Les PS For pictures and info on last years event see
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Photo%20gallery.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Filter Adapters... |
vansairforce
Hey all...
I am doing some research into a cleanable and reusable oil filter for
experimental aircraft and am gathering information on oil filter adapters...
If you could please take a moment to fill out this for I would really
appreciate it...
http://www.vondane.com/oil_filter/
Also, if anyone has a Whelen wingtip mounted power supply for a single
strobe that I could borrow please contact me offline...
-Bill VonDane
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! - Positech Oil Coolers |
>Dan,
>
>Thanks for the great update.
>
>I would like to provide our experience with Positech Oil coolers on our
>IO-360 (200 hp).
>
>We ordered our Positech cooler from Vans and from the beginning we had high
>oil temps. We had heard that the 200 hp generated a lot of heat but short
>of
>running in the 21" area could not keep the temps down (below 220). We
>moved
>the cooler from the rear baffle to the firewall - which made it worse.
>
>We called Brain at Positech and explained our situation - he said the
>original cooler had the flow tubes to close together and air was damming up
>rather than passing thru - providing required airflow. He sent an updated
>unit (no charge) and we reinstalled it on the rear baffle - behind cyl 4.
>Since that time our oil temps have been very good. On our flight to S-N-F
>last month - Oil temps were in the 170 - 190 range).
>
>Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
>RV-8A (200 hp)
Exactly my same experience. The early coolers were bad news. Guaranteed to
toast your oil in short order. They sent a free replacement upon request.
I had already installed a Niagara so my problem was already solved. Still,
it's good to see a company that admits when there is a problem and does the
right thing to fix it.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Second Annual Rebel's Bluff FlyIn |
| From: | tacaruth(at)ralcorp.com |
05/21/2004 10:41:12 AM
Les,
If you have 100LL for only $2.25 a gallon, it may be cheaper than auto gas
at a filling station. What's this world coming to?
Tom
RV-7A, working on canopy
Lwfeatherston@aol
.com
Sent by: To
owner-rv-list-ser RV-list(at)matronics.com
ver(at)matronics.com cc
Subject
05/21/2004 09:03 RV-List: Second Annual Rebel's
AM Bluff FlyIn
Please respond to
rv-list@matronics
.com
Sorry folks, but I just learned something. If you want to attract a lot of
attention to your FlyIn don't publish the date! Everyone is invited to the
Second Annual Rebel's Bluff RV FlyIn on June 5th. Let's begin at about
10:00AM.
All aircraft are welcome! Even drive in's if you are still "poundin'
rivets."
Rebel's Bluff Airstrip is 2,200' of very nice sod, located 2
miles
NNE of Mt Vernon Municipal airport, Mt Vernon, MISSOURI, (2MO). The
lat/longs
are N37 06.1 and W93 52.2. Generally, it is 150 miles south of Kansas
City,
and 150 east of Tulsa. Lunch will be provided by
the local Boy Scout troop. Last year we had 27 RV's and one Harmon Rocket
II.
Some other interesting airplanes always show up, such as Stearman's, etc.
If
you can stay overnight, there is a nice campsite on the field. Also, the
local Super 8 will be available for $50 double occupancy.
Dinner will be a Steak or Bar-B-Que
Chicken affair with all the trimmings for about $8. You must RSVP for
dinner. We
had a great time last year. There will be Avgas 100LL available at cost,
estimated to be $2.25. If you need autogas please let me know. Please
come and
make this the largest RV event in the Midwest. Contact Les Featherston
417-466-4663 or lwfeatherston(at)AOL.com for any information that I left out
this time.
Thank you, Les PS For pictures and info on last years event see
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Photo%20gallery.html
If you are not the intended addressee indicated in this message (or
responsible for delivery of the message to such person), you may not copy
message and kindly notify the sender by reply email. Please advise
immediately if you or your employer do not consent to internet email for
messages of this kind.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder tabs was gear leg fairings & centering ball |
Laird,
I need to add a rudder tab but hate to mess up the rudder. What are the
"best" ways to add a rudder tab?
Ross Mickey
N9PT
-----Original Message-----
From: Laird Owens
My RV was similar to yours with the gear leg fairings off. I kept the
fairing straight and used a small rudder tab because I thought (and
this is pure speculation) that because of the longer moment on the
rudder, it would take less force (and therefore drag) to move the tail
back in the right spot.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass Certification |
| From: | "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org> |
Hey Mike, what's this mean...
"FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch will increase its regulatory enforcement program beginning June 1, 2004. An owner who fails to respond within 60 days under the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report program might see suspension or revocation of his or her Certificate of Aircraft Registration and cancellation of the aircraft's "N" number, or registration. FAA says the increased enforcement is a safety as well as a paperwork issue. "The agency and manufacturers must be able to notify aircraft owners to distribute safety and maintenance related information, including airworthiness directives," said Mark Lash, manager of the FAA Civil Aviation Registry. The registry also helps local law enforcement and FSS begin search for a downed or overdue aircraft. FAA says registration address changes should be updated within 30 days, and it will post the names of those at risk on its website, www.faa.gov."
Do we have to re-register our aircraft every three years (Triennial Aircraft Registration
Report program)? Thanks,
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
Subject: RE: RV-List: All Glass Certification
Steve, You do not get a panel certified for IFR. It is the responsibility
of the pilot to determine if he/she has the instruments and radios to comply
with the requirements of FAR 91.205(e). The Operating Limitations that will
be issued will either say that the aircraft is restricted to Day VFR only or
that it is restricted to Day VFR unless appropriately equipped for night
and/or IFR operations. If your inspector or DAR says otherwise then ask him
to look in Order 8130.2E for the proper wording.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: All Glass Certification
>Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:45:07 -0500
>
>
>Has anyone been able to get an all electric, all glass instrument panel
>certified for IFR or VFR? I really want to avoid putting any round dials
>on my panel if possible.
>
>Also, has anyone used an inspector in the Memphis, TN area other than the
>one at the local FSDO?
>
>Thanks,
>Steve
>7QB
>MEM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Wheeler North" <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us>
Subject: RV-List: 430
> I would suggest you download the 430/530 demonstrator and practice with it
> if it seems to be cluncky to work. I find it no harder than using any of
the
> other garmin handhelds, and its a lot easier than using the anywhere map.
> That one is great for viewing but a pain to enter stuff into,,, its too
> small to hit on bumpy days.
As you said, It's no harder then the other Garmin handhelds to use. Since
I've flown for a decade with my 195 the 430 is very intuitive. The menus
and the way you operate both of them is very similar. My problem with it is
that it takes too much heads down time to take full advantage of its
capabilities. If I was flying as the first officer and my job was the 430 it
would be great. If I'm the pilot, I'm too busy to be spending the time
needed to run the box.
The lack of terrain info, the fact that it is unaware of the altitudes that
the FAA wants you to be at during various phases of an instrument approach
and that is doesn't know about the existence of the federal airways that
the FAA wants you to be on during instrument flight is ridiculous. $500 a
year for a database subscription and I still need to purchase paper charts
to be able to fly with it? (I'm going to have paper with me as a back up of
course, but the box should have this info in it...)
I knew that my previous post was going to get a lot of response from the
folks who have a 430 and like it. For people in the "planning their panel
stage" I wanted to post another point of view to consider. We have had a
430 for a long time and at the time we put it in it may have been the best
thing there was. I like the radios a lot. Things are always changing
though. I think a 430 costs about half of what we paid for it when they
first came out....
We think it's "OK" but are considering pulling it and selling it for
something else because we are not satisfied with the way it is working for
us. Just my opinion. I'm not saying I don't use it or can't use it. I'm
saying I think there might be something that will work better for me...
Maybe the 530 will fill the bill. I'm looking at the other options and
would welcome suggestions! I thought the Apollo was interesting looking. I
don't know to think about what will happen to the line since Garmin
purchased them.
And yes, if we don't trade the 430 in, the list will be the first to know
it's for sale :-)
Here is a link to a little more articulate pirep about flying with the 430
then mine:
http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/garmin-gps
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder tabs was gear leg fairings & centering ball |
I stuck mine on with double sided tape. Been there for 4 years with no
problem.
Gary
Ross Mickey wrote:
>
>Laird,
>
>I need to add a rudder tab but hate to mess up the rudder. What are the
>"best" ways to add a rudder tab?
>
>Ross Mickey
>N9PT
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Laird Owens
>
>My RV was similar to yours with the gear leg fairings off. I kept the
>fairing straight and used a small rudder tab because I thought (and
>this is pure speculation) that because of the longer moment on the
>rudder, it would take less force (and therefore drag) to move the tail
>back in the right spot.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | canopy cutting - no big deal |
fellas, after hearing about this for years and seeing a lot of email comments
and web sites on the topic, I decided to "screw it" and just make the BIG CUT
today, on my own, in my "arctic cold" 67 degree garage. Didn't fire up the
heaters. Only used 8 clamps, not 30. No problemo. Took about 4 minutes at
most.
I have been pretty rough on grinding and cutting up the canopy to this point
so I had gained confidence that with the 1/4 inch Todd's canopy this bad boy
just wasn't going to crack or chip making the BIG CUT without some tragic
outside intervention. And with his free replacement offer if you crack it I wasn't
holding back. I guess I don't need that 1/5th I was saving for courage on
this job. I'll save it for first flight (or if I decide to paint my plane
myself I'll need it).
Anyway, if you've been worried about this part and have the Todd's canopy,
don't be.
Lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Duckett <perfeng(at)3rivers.net> |
| Subject: | Bilge ventilation fans |
Scott,
To answer your first question, yes. The purpose for these fans is to
evacuate possible exsplosive vapors and fumes from the bilge and engine
galley before the ingnition is turned on or the engine(s) are started.
The problem is that an average 2 car garage has about 7,000 Cubic Feet
of air. The fan in your link only move 235 Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM).
This fan would take 30 minutes to exchange the air in that space with
no restrictions such as ducting or filters.
Although it may not be of concern to you, industry standards as well as
the National Fire and Uniform Building Codes requires that the air be
completely exchanged at least every 5 minutes. In this situation of a
7,000 C.F. area, you would need a fan that moves at least 1400 CFM.
Figuring that you will have some kind of filtering system as well as
the garage not being designed for optimum air folw I would figure at
least 20% more CFM or rounded off to 1800 CFM.
Another thing you must factor in is "Make-up Air". You must be able to
replace the air you are moving out or you start to create a vaccum in
your paint area. In other words no matter how much you clean the area
you will pull every dust partical and piece of particulant matter out of
places you never knew exsisted . Being able to keep a small amount of
positive pressure in the booth is actually better. As an example our
booth is roughly 20,000 C.F., our evacuation fans move 28,000CFM and our
make-up air is 32,500CFM so we completely exchange the air roughly once
a minute with a residual positive pressure of about 4-6 ounces. No fuss,
no muss and the booth stays clean.
If you can move enough air, generally a DIY'er can get away with using
nearly any type of motor if you plan on just painting your project.
Years, I mean LOTS of years ago, many small shops just used gangs of
"Box Fans" in one end of the booth and filters in the other. Four high
flow box fans and twelve 3M Hepa furnance filters would still be less
than half the cost of one explosion-proof motor ( less the fan, housing
and frame).
Many industrial suppliers such as Graingers and Dayton offer many
different types of ventilation fans and filters if you really want to go
first class but, for a one time job, you might consider cheaper
alternatives to achieve the same results.
Hope this helped in some way...
Jim Duckett, N708JD
Jimmie Dee's Custom Hot Rod Shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available |
While the online charts and approach plates may be updated, be advised that
none of the approach plates I saw had the date printed anywhere on them, so
if you are ever ramp checked by the FAA, they may not be considered legal.
This might bear further investigation to see how they would treat one of
these online charts.
Ken Brooks
Roscoe, IL
RV-8 Still Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder tabs was gear leg fairings & centering ball |
Ross,
There are a couple of ways to do it after it's painted. I just cut a
tab out of soft alum (6061-0, I think), put a bend that I thought was
close, painted it, then pop riveted it on to the rudder about mid way
up. That's held up well. Go up and get set up on your normal cruise
speed then check it, land then bend it the right way. Then repeat. It
takes a couple of flights to get it right. Then someone will bump it
at an airshow and you'll wonder what happened....
The other way to do it is with a piece of balsa cut to a wedge about 1
-1-1/2 inches long and just double stick it to the rudder and
experiment until you get the right size. You could then epoxy it,
sand, fill, and paint, then put back on the rudder with double stick.
If you REALLY wanted a bunch of work, you could move the nose of the
fin by changing the attachment to the main spar of the stab until it
flew straight. I've really wanted to do that, but I put a LOT of work
into my emp fairing and I think I'd rather shoot myself first.
Maybe that little trim tab isn't that bad....
Laird
SoCal
On May 21, 2004, at 8:44 AM, Ross Mickey wrote:
>
> Laird,
>
> I need to add a rudder tab but hate to mess up the rudder. What are
> the
> "best" ways to add a rudder tab?
>
> Ross Mickey
> N9PT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Laird Owens
>
> My RV was similar to yours with the gear leg fairings off. I kept the
> fairing straight and used a small rudder tab because I thought (and
> this is pure speculation) that because of the longer moment on the
> rudder, it would take less force (and therefore drag) to move the tail
> back in the right spot.
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass Certification |
Rabaut, Chuck wrote:
>
>Hey Mike, what's this mean...
>
>"FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch will increase its regulatory enforcement program beginning June 1, 2004. An owner who fails to respond within 60 days under the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report program might see suspension or revocation of his or her Certificate of Aircraft Registration and cancellation of the aircraft's "N" number, or registration. FAA says the increased enforcement is a safety as well as a paperwork issue. "The agency and manufacturers must be able to notify aircraft owners to distribute safety and maintenance related information, including airworthiness directives," said Mark Lash, manager of the FAA Civil Aviation Registry. The registry also helps local law enforcement and FSS begin search for a downed or overdue aircraft. FAA says registration address changes should be updated within 30 days, and it will post the names of those at risk on its website, www.faa.gov."
>
>Do we have to re-register our aircraft every three years (Triennial Aircraft Registration
Report program)? Thanks,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>
If the owners address is current for the aircraft registration ..... you
don't have to do anything. I guess every three years they check the
registratin address ..... and if it comes back as bad .... they'll pull
your registration. There is a form available on the website at
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraft.asp (near the top) and registration
number search at http://162.58.35.241/acdatabase/acmain.htm to check the
address on file. I filled out two forms! :-[
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Second Annual Rebel's Bluff FlyIn |
> Les,
>
> If you have 100LL for only $2.25 a gallon, it may be cheaper than auto gas
> at a filling station. What's this world coming to?
The fuel in that big tank down at the airport stays the same price till it's
gone... At least it does around here. The few gallons we sip out of it is
nothing compared to the giant sucking sound created by all those SUVs lined
up at the local gas stations in town... I bet his price is going to go up
a bunch with the next load! Get it while it lasts.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re:All Glass Certification |
FYI, I have an all glass panel except for fuel gauges, and I had no problem
getting my airworthiness certificate. During the inspection the inspector
did not even ask to see them, as you can't see any data without the system
being powered up. He just ask if I had all the basic VFR instruments and
what did I have. As far as IFR, your operating instructions for the first
25-40 hours are day VFR only, then if you have the right equipment you can
fly VFR night and IFR day/night.
BTW I have had a total elecrical failure at night in the pattern, no
problem flying an RV without instruments. One of the best landings I have
ever made.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
At 07:12 PM 5/20/04, Steve&Anita Nyman wrote:
>
>Yes, I understood to what Mike was alluding. My intent was not to discuss
>the pros and cons of glass cockpits or what the FAR's say is
>required. Read my message again. I have perused the archives ad
>nauseum. I simply wanted to know if anyone has successfully obtained
>experimental certification to fly their all electric, all glass
>experimental airplane either IFR or VFR. I asked this question because
>the individual at Aerotronics who is designing and will be building my
>panel has run into problems getting all glass cockpits approved at some
>locations.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Builder in Charlotte |
In a message dated 5/20/04 6:22:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
mbick(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
I am looking for an RV4 builder in the Charlotte, NC area to take a look at
the work so far. I bought a kit that has been started and I am in the
process of finishing but would like to have an "Expert" take a look.
Thanks
Mike
Mike:
I forwarded your message to the Southeast RV Squadron list ... we have
several guys in the Charlotte area that qualify and should respond to your request.
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, N.C. N910LL
245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder tabs was gear leg fairings & centering ball |
Thanks, Laird.
I offset my vertical 3/8" and am still getting the pull to the right.
I am with you, give me the gun before you give me the fiberglass
work...again.
In terms of placement of an aluminum tab, I guess it doesn't matter
whether the bent part is extending beyond the edge of the rudder or is
flush with it. It would probably be easier to adjust if it extended
beyond though.
Ross
-----Original Message-----
Ross,
There are a couple of ways to do it after it's painted. I just cut a
tab out of soft alum (6061-0, I think), put a bend that I thought was
close, painted it, then pop riveted it on to the rudder about mid way
up. That's held up well. Go up and get set up on your normal cruise
speed then check it, land then bend it the right way. Then repeat. It
takes a couple of flights to get it right. Then someone will bump it
at an airshow and you'll wonder what happened....
The other way to do it is with a piece of balsa cut to a wedge about 1
-1-1/2 inches long and just double stick it to the rudder and
experiment until you get the right size. You could then epoxy it,
sand, fill, and paint, then put back on the rudder with double stick.
If you REALLY wanted a bunch of work, you could move the nose of the
fin by changing the attachment to the main spar of the stab until it
flew straight. I've really wanted to do that, but I put a LOT of work
into my emp fairing and I think I'd rather shoot myself first.
Maybe that little trim tab isn't that bad....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Builder in Charlotte |
Try this.
http://www.rvproject.com/registry/rvfinder.jsp
>
>In a message dated 5/20/04 6:22:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
>mbick(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
>I am looking for an RV4 builder in the Charlotte, NC area to take a look at
>the work so far. I bought a kit that has been started and I am in the
>process of finishing but would like to have an "Expert" take a look.
>
>
>Thanks
>
>Mike
>Mike:
>
>I forwarded your message to the Southeast RV Squadron list ... we have
>several guys in the Charlotte area that qualify and should respond to your
>request.
>
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, N.C. N910LL
>245 hrs
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass Certification |
Kind of. Once an aircraft is registered every three years after that the
owner is supposed to be getting a card from the registry asking them if they
still have the aircraft. If the owner does then he/she is supposed to fill
out the card and mail it back in. There is no cost. This is called the
trienneal review.
The registry is trying to get a better handle on how many aircraft are still
really in the system and to reduce the amount of paperwork costs in sending
out ADs only to existing aircraft. This rule has actually been around for a
while but has not been enforced.
Another rule that they are starting to enforce as of June is the requirement
to both print and sign your name on the application for registration. A lot
of people don't see that in the bottom block of this form it asctually says
to beth print and sign, so they just sign it and let it go.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
>Certification
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:56:26 -0700
>
>
>Hey Mike, what's this mean...
>
>"FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch will increase its regulatory
>enforcement program beginning June 1, 2004. An owner who fails to respond
>within 60 days under the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report program
>might see suspension or revocation of his or her Certificate of Aircraft
>Registration and cancellation of the aircraft's "N" number, or
>registration. FAA says the increased enforcement is a safety as well as a
>paperwork issue. "The agency and manufacturers must be able to notify
>aircraft owners to distribute safety and maintenance related information,
>including airworthiness directives," said Mark Lash, manager of the FAA
>Civil Aviation Registry. The registry also helps local law enforcement and
>FSS begin search for a downed or overdue aircraft. FAA says registration
>address changes should be updated within 30 days, and it will post the
>names of those at risk on its website, www.faa.gov."
>
>Do we have to re-register our aircraft every three years (Triennial
>Aircraft Registration Report program)? Thanks,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: All Glass Certification
>
>
>Steve, You do not get a panel certified for IFR. It is the responsibility
>of the pilot to determine if he/she has the instruments and radios to
>comply
>with the requirements of FAR 91.205(e). The Operating Limitations that
>will
>be issued will either say that the aircraft is restricted to Day VFR only
>or
>that it is restricted to Day VFR unless appropriately equipped for night
>and/or IFR operations. If your inspector or DAR says otherwise then ask
>him
>to look in Order 8130.2E for the proper wording.
>
>Mike Robertson
>
>
> >From: "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: All Glass Certification
> >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:45:07 -0500
> >
> >
> >Has anyone been able to get an all electric, all glass instrument panel
> >certified for IFR or VFR? I really want to avoid putting any round dials
> >on my panel if possible.
> >
> >Also, has anyone used an inspector in the Memphis, TN area other than the
> >one at the local FSDO?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Steve
> >7QB
> >MEM
> >
> >
>
>
Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball
Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: WOW!!!! - Positech Oil Coolers |
Likewise my experience was the same as Brian's. I was just behind Brian
building my -8A and had the original Positech cooler with the same high oil
temp problems. I changed over to a Stewart Warner and the problem was
solved. Unfortunately by the time that Positech admitted their error and
offered to exchange coolers, my old Positech cooler had been at the bottom
of the ocean off Honolulu for several months. I'm sure some small fish is
making a wonderful home of it today.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: WOW!!!! - Positech Oil Coolers
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 15:28:31 +0000
>
>
> >Dan,
> >
> >Thanks for the great update.
> >
> >I would like to provide our experience with Positech Oil coolers on our
> >IO-360 (200 hp).
> >
> >We ordered our Positech cooler from Vans and from the beginning we had
>high
> >oil temps. We had heard that the 200 hp generated a lot of heat but short
> >of
> >running in the 21" area could not keep the temps down (below 220). We
> >moved
> >the cooler from the rear baffle to the firewall - which made it worse.
> >
> >We called Brain at Positech and explained our situation - he said the
> >original cooler had the flow tubes to close together and air was damming
>up
> >rather than passing thru - providing required airflow. He sent an updated
> >unit (no charge) and we reinstalled it on the rear baffle - behind cyl 4.
> >Since that time our oil temps have been very good. On our flight to S-N-F
> >last month - Oil temps were in the 170 - 190 range).
> >
> >Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
> >RV-8A (200 hp)
>
>Exactly my same experience. The early coolers were bad news. Guaranteed
>to
>toast your oil in short order. They sent a free replacement upon request.
>I had already installed a Niagara so my problem was already solved. Still,
>it's good to see a company that admits when there is a problem and does the
>right thing to fix it.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>RV10 '51
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bilge ventilation fans |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
05/21/2004 01:51:41 PM,
Serialize complete at 05/21/2004 01:51:41 PM
Excellent info, Jim, Thanks!
Scott
Jim Duckett
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
05/21/2004 10:02 AM
Please respond to rv-list
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: RV-List: Bilge ventilation fans
This message has been EXCLUDED from routine purging...please select "Purge" if
your business need for
preserving this message changes. The message can still be deleted from
the database by Scott Fink
Scott,
To answer your first question, yes. The purpose for these fans is to
evacuate possible exsplosive vapors and fumes from the bilge and engine
galley before the ingnition is turned on or the engine(s) are started.
The problem is that an average 2 car garage has about 7,000 Cubic Feet
of air. The fan in your link only move 235 Cubic Feet per Minute (CFM).
This fan would take 30 minutes to exchange the air in that space with
no restrictions such as ducting or filters.
Although it may not be of concern to you, industry standards as well as
the National Fire and Uniform Building Codes requires that the air be
completely exchanged at least every 5 minutes. In this situation of a
7,000 C.F. area, you would need a fan that moves at least 1400 CFM.
Figuring that you will have some kind of filtering system as well as
the garage not being designed for optimum air folw I would figure at
least 20% more CFM or rounded off to 1800 CFM.
Another thing you must factor in is "Make-up Air". You must be able to
replace the air you are moving out or you start to create a vaccum in
your paint area. In other words no matter how much you clean the area
you will pull every dust partical and piece of particulant matter out of
places you never knew exsisted . Being able to keep a small amount of
positive pressure in the booth is actually better. As an example our
booth is roughly 20,000 C.F., our evacuation fans move 28,000CFM and our
make-up air is 32,500CFM so we completely exchange the air roughly once
a minute with a residual positive pressure of about 4-6 ounces. No fuss,
no muss and the booth stays clean.
If you can move enough air, generally a DIY'er can get away with using
nearly any type of motor if you plan on just painting your project.
Years, I mean LOTS of years ago, many small shops just used gangs of
"Box Fans" in one end of the booth and filters in the other. Four high
flow box fans and twelve 3M Hepa furnance filters would still be less
than half the cost of one explosion-proof motor ( less the fan, housing
and frame).
Many industrial suppliers such as Graingers and Dayton offer many
different types of ventilation fans and filters if you really want to go
first class but, for a one time job, you might consider cheaper
alternatives to achieve the same results.
Hope this helped in some way...
Jim Duckett, N708JD
Jimmie Dee's Custom Hot Rod Shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dougweil(at)pressenter.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder tabs was gear leg fairings & centering ball |
Use a piece of model airplane trailing edge balsa. Duct tape a length to
make your first guess as to the amount of tab needed. Vary the length of
the piece to get more or less rudder trim. When finished, epoxy it in
place, seal with balsa filler.
Or buy a piece from EPM.AV here:
http://www.epm-avcorp.com/trimtab.html
Doug Weiler
RV-4 in paint
> I need to add a rudder tab but hate to mess up the rudder. What are the
> "best" ways to add a rudder tab?
>
> Ross Mickey
> N9PT
>
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re:All Glass Certification |
Total electric failure? Could you please elaborate as to what caused
it, what your electrical system architecture is, etc?
Jeff Point
RV-6 45 hours
Milwaukee WI
Bob wrote:
>BTW I have had a total electrical failure at night in the pattern, no
>problem flying an RV without instruments. One of the best landings I have
>ever made.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass Certification |
After many years of airplane ownership, the triennial card has always
said...
"If you still own this aircraft, and your information is correct, you may
ignore this notice. If you do not own this aircraft, or if you have moved,
etc., please correct and return"
Or words to that effect.
If the FAA is going to turn this around, they need to do so in capital
letters, bold type, with red arrows etc., or there will be lots of new jobs
for lots of bureaucrats straightening out the mess.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
Subject: RE: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
Certification
Kind of. Once an aircraft is registered every three years after that the
owner is supposed to be getting a card from the registry asking them if they
still have the aircraft. If the owner does then he/she is supposed to fill
out the card and mail it back in. There is no cost. This is called the
trienneal review.
The registry is trying to get a better handle on how many aircraft are still
really in the system and to reduce the amount of paperwork costs in sending
out ADs only to existing aircraft. This rule has actually been around for a
while but has not been enforced.
Another rule that they are starting to enforce as of June is the requirement
to both print and sign your name on the application for registration. A lot
of people don't see that in the bottom block of this form it asctually says
to beth print and sign, so they just sign it and let it go.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
>Certification
>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:56:26 -0700
>
>
>Hey Mike, what's this mean...
>
>"FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch will increase its regulatory
>enforcement program beginning June 1, 2004. An owner who fails to respond
>within 60 days under the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report program
>might see suspension or revocation of his or her Certificate of Aircraft
>Registration and cancellation of the aircraft's "N" number, or
>registration. FAA says the increased enforcement is a safety as well as a
>paperwork issue. "The agency and manufacturers must be able to notify
>aircraft owners to distribute safety and maintenance related information,
>including airworthiness directives," said Mark Lash, manager of the FAA
>Civil Aviation Registry. The registry also helps local law enforcement and
>FSS begin search for a downed or overdue aircraft. FAA says registration
>address changes should be updated within 30 days, and it will post the
>names of those at risk on its website, www.faa.gov."
>
>Do we have to re-register our aircraft every three years (Triennial
>Aircraft Registration Report program)? Thanks,
>
> Chuck
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: All Glass Certification
>
>
>Steve, You do not get a panel certified for IFR. It is the responsibility
>of the pilot to determine if he/she has the instruments and radios to
>comply
>with the requirements of FAR 91.205(e). The Operating Limitations that
>will
>be issued will either say that the aircraft is restricted to Day VFR only
>or
>that it is restricted to Day VFR unless appropriately equipped for night
>and/or IFR operations. If your inspector or DAR says otherwise then ask
>him
>to look in Order 8130.2E for the proper wording.
>
>Mike Robertson
>
>
> >From: "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: All Glass Certification
> >Date: Thu, 20 May 2004 14:45:07 -0500
> >
> >
> >Has anyone been able to get an all electric, all glass instrument panel
> >certified for IFR or VFR? I really want to avoid putting any round dials
> >on my panel if possible.
> >
> >Also, has anyone used an inspector in the Memphis, TN area other than the
> >one at the local FSDO?
> >
> >Thanks,
> >Steve
> >7QB
> >MEM
> >
> >
>
>
Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball
Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)uniserve.com> |
| Subject: | Re; Electrical failure, was All Glass |
Ok Bob, you have my curiosity aroused, all glass --- Bob's Z -.XX wiring ??
How did the total electrical failure occur?
George in Langley
FYI, I have an all glass panel except for fuel gauges, and I had no problem
getting my airworthiness certificate.
-------snip----------------
BTW I have had a total elecrical failure at night in the pattern, no
problem flying an RV without instruments. One of the best landings I have
ever made.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Alley <n320wt(at)yahoo.com> |
I have a 68DX71P Felix Bi-Cambered prop for sale. It
fits an 0320 with 3/8" prop bolts. This prop is brand
new in the original shipping container. Fred Felix
sells this prop for $950 and I'm asking $600 for mine.
If interested call me or contact me off the list.
====
BRIAN ALLEY (N320WT)
CARBON FIBER COMPOSITES
304-872-7938 shop
304-562-6800 home
How are you going to win by a nose if you don't stick out your neck?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | Terminal procedures and airport diagrams now available |
And I suspect that if you look at the prior page it will say that the chart
is good til June 10, 2004. ( I did this for local charts).
One could view this as 6-10-04. Now if you reverse these "entities", you get
04-10-6.
Now this oddly enough looks like the 04106. Maybe there is some logic there.
Maybe I am trying too hard to make logic be there.
James
[SNIP
> On Fri May 21 13:06:24 2004, Ken Brooks wrote :
> >While the online charts and approach plates may be updated, be
> advised that
> >none of the approach plates I saw had the date printed anywhere
> on them, so
> >if you are ever ramp checked by the FAA, they may not be
> considered legal.
> >This might bear further investigation to see how they would treat one of
> >these online charts.
>
> Just to take a look at the new products being offered by the FAA
> I pulled down
> an approach plate for the ILS-34 into Asheville, NC to have a
> look. I did see
> that along the bottom the notation 'Amdt 23F 04106' and thought that this
> indicated the ammendment version of this particular plate. This
> could be used
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Anyone in Norcross GA?
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Hi,
I agree with your comments, and most of the comments
on the web link you reference. One point of
clarification is that getting the nearest airport
information on our 430s (our club's planes each
have a 430) only requires rotating the fat knob
on the lower right. Perhaps this is a recent
update to their software. I fly with the 430
in this position all the time, and use the map
information on my yoke mounted 196, since I can
program this at home.
>http://philip.greenspun.com/flying/garmin-gps
My main gripe about these devices is the cost
of database updates. We are getting severely
ripped off. The raw data from the FAA is very
cheap. I'd like to see some competition in
formatting and selling this data for the
various GPS and moving map systems.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | FAA re-register aircraft??? |
Mike,
I just received the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report on my RV-3. As John
Huft states, it says "Complete and return this form ONLY if the information provided
on the reverse is incorrect." Also, there is no indication you must print
and sign, it just has a block for Cancellation and a block for Address Change,
both of which simply say Signature at bottom. Now we hear that if you don't
send it in your registration might be withdraw. Is this FAA Doublespeak???
What gives????
Stu McCurdy
From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass Certification
After many years of airplane ownership, the triennial card has always
said...
"If you still own this aircraft, and your information is correct, you may
ignore this notice. If you do not own this aircraft, or if you have moved,
etc., please correct and return"
Or words to that effect.
If the FAA is going to turn this around, they need to do so in capital
letters, bold type, with red arrows etc., or there will be lots of new jobs
for lots of bureaucrats straightening out the mess.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
Subject: RE: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
Certification
Kind of. Once an aircraft is registered every three years after that the
owner is supposed to be getting a card from the registry asking them if they
still have the aircraft. If the owner does then he/she is supposed to fill
out the card and mail it back in. There is no cost. This is called the
trienneal review.
The registry is trying to get a better handle on how many aircraft are still
really in the system and to reduce the amount of paperwork costs in sending
out ADs only to existing aircraft. This rule has actually been around for a
while but has not been enforced.
Another rule that they are starting to enforce as of June is the requirement
to both print and sign your name on the application for registration. A lot
of people don't see that in the bottom block of this form it asctually says
to beth print and sign, so they just sign it and let it go.
Mike Robertson
>>From: "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
>>Certification
>>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:56:26 -0700
>>
>>
>>Hey Mike, what's this mean...
>>
>>"FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch will increase its regulatory
>>enforcement program beginning June 1, 2004. An owner who fails to respond
>>within 60 days under the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report program
>>might see suspension or revocation of his or her Certificate of Aircraft
>>Registration and cancellation of the aircraft's "N" number, or
>>registration. FAA says the increased enforcement is a safety as well as a
>>paperwork issue. "The agency and manufacturers must be able to notify
>>aircraft owners to distribute safety and maintenance related information,
>>including airworthiness directives," said Mark Lash, manager of the FAA
>>Civil Aviation Registry. The registry also helps local law enforcement and
>>FSS begin search for a downed or overdue aircraft. FAA says registration
>>address changes should be updated within 30 days, and it will post the
>>names of those at risk on its website, www.faa.gov."
>>
>>Do we have to re-register our aircraft every three years (Triennial
>>Aircraft Registration Report program)? Thanks,
>>
>> Chuck
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | JVanLaak(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Another first flight |
Another RV-6A takes to the air!!
Congratulations go to Dick Reynolds of Norfolk VA for the first flight of his
RV-6A non-QB. I had the pleasure of making the first flight for him this
morning from Hampton Roads Executive airport, and the plane is nearly flawless
but for the inevitable high oil temps. I may be jumping the gun to announce it
before he gets the chance, but he would never brag on the beautiful
workmanship and superb IFR systems, so I need to do that for him.
The plane is another great example of Van's magic.
Congrats Dick and thank you for the honor of the first flight.
Jim Van Laak
RV-6 N79RL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Turnbull" <rv7tt(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Flight instruments and lighting for sale |
Well due to changes in my panel layout I am selling the following:
Van's Airspeed Indicator
IF UMA-16-310-261D
RV 7/8 unlighted MPH outer/KTS innner
Van's Vertical Speed Indicator
IF BC-3
0-3000 F/M
Van's Altimeter
BG-3B
Bar scale inches
Turn Coordinator
ACS P/N 1394T100
Electric
I also have the UMA Bezel lights (green) for these guages and the 14V power inverter
to run them. All the gauges are unlighted.
These are all 3 1/8 new, never out of the boxes, purchased in October and November
2003. I'm going with an EFIS system and won't need these. Interested parties
email me. Thanks
Tom Turnbull
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
My Lycoming O-320 runs strong and trouble free...no problems....but there is
one oddity that keeps nagging at me...since I installed a digital tachometer
I can see that the engine RPM wanders up and down 20 to 30 RPM with no
throttle, mixture, or altitude/attitude change...I firmly locked the
throttle and mixture so they couldn't move and the rather slow movement
still continued...using dual electronic ignition system....the drift in RPM
occurs over a four or five minute period typically.
This doesn't seem to hurt anything but I keep wondering why? Your thoughts?
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM "Wandering" |
John: Just an idea when installing Electronic International with magnetos,
EI said to add another isolation resistor in series with initial resistor to
dampen out fluctuation. Just one idea.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602RV flying
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: RV-List: RPM "Wandering"
>
> My Lycoming O-320 runs strong and trouble free...no problems....but there
is
> one oddity that keeps nagging at me...since I installed a digital
tachometer
> I can see that the engine RPM wanders up and down 20 to 30 RPM with no
> throttle, mixture, or altitude/attitude change...I firmly locked the
> throttle and mixture so they couldn't move and the rather slow movement
> still continued...using dual electronic ignition system....the drift in
RPM
> occurs over a four or five minute period typically.
>
>
> This doesn't seem to hurt anything but I keep wondering why? Your
thoughts?
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight, RV-7 |
Yep, another -7 got airborne today. This also relates to the current thread on
Positech oil coolers because I have the large one mounted on one of Bart's IO-360-M1B6
engines with Bendix fuel injection and an MT 3-bladed prop. So I think
I can confirm that indeed the newer Positechs seem to work just fine. For
comparison, I have the large Stewart-Warner in my -6 and I noted a very similar
performance with the Positech in the -7.
More details and pictures available on my web page at:
http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch
Go to RV-7 Project, First Flight (last page).
This is my third "first flight" and just as big a thrill as the first one. What
a great little airplane.
Pat Hatch
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: First Flight, RV-7 |
In a message dated 5/22/2004 6:04:50 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pat_hatch(at)msn.com writes:
This is my third "first flight" and just as big a thrill as the first one.
What a great little airplane.
Pat Hatch
Congrats Pat ... didn't realize you had gotten so far along on the project
... but then again ... it is your job now !!!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
245 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | First Flight, RV-7 |
Pat,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE - Again !!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight, RV-7
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 17:59:04 -0400
>
>
>Yep, another -7 got airborne today. This also relates to the current thread
>on Positech oil coolers because I have the large one mounted on one of
>Bart's IO-360-M1B6 engines with Bendix fuel injection and an MT 3-bladed
>prop. So I think I can confirm that indeed the newer Positechs seem to
>work just fine. For comparison, I have the large Stewart-Warner in my -6
>and I noted a very similar performance with the Positech in the -7.
>
>More details and pictures available on my web page at:
>
>http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-pathatch
>
>Go to RV-7 Project, First Flight (last page).
>
>This is my third "first flight" and just as big a thrill as the first one.
>What a great little airplane.
>
>Pat Hatch
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Another first flight |
Dick,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: JVanLaak(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Another first flight
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 11:36:32 EDT
>
>
>Another RV-6A takes to the air!!
>
>Congratulations go to Dick Reynolds of Norfolk VA for the first flight of
>his
>RV-6A non-QB. I had the pleasure of making the first flight for him this
>morning from Hampton Roads Executive airport, and the plane is nearly
>flawless
>but for the inevitable high oil temps. I may be jumping the gun to
>announce it
>before he gets the chance, but he would never brag on the beautiful
>workmanship and superb IFR systems, so I need to do that for him.
>
>The plane is another great example of Van's magic.
>
>Congrats Dick and thank you for the honor of the first flight.
>
>Jim Van Laak
>RV-6 N79RL
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-List One more -4 |
| From: | smoothweasel(at)juno.com |
Hey guys,
The DAR came out this morning and did the "inspection". Everything went
just great.
He was finished around 11:30am ssssooooooooooo.........I was in the air
at 11:31am!!!!
Everything was great. This was my first RV and MAN!!!! these airplanes
are COOL!!!!
I won't to take this time to thank each one of you for all your thoughts
and for Matt. and this List.
There was a whole lot of information that was very useful on this List
while I was building.
I have a pic. of it if any one is interested I will send it off line as
an attachment.
Every one of you is welcome to come visit our place anytime you won't
The strip is 2400' grass. Come on over and see us.
Joel "Weasel" Graber
-4 and FLYING!!!!!
Brooksville MS
662 574 5210
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
There is a vent connection on the mechanical fuel pump that is to be vented
overboard. I have been told that one of the failure modes of the mechanical
pump is a ruptured diaphram which requires that the fuel be vented.
If the diaphram ruptures and I then turn the electric pump on, does this
mean that the electric pump will dump all of the fuel overboard through the
mechanical pump vent?
Vince Welch
Watch LIVE baseball games on your computer with MLB.TV, included with MSN
Premium! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200439ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | RV6/7/9 distinguishing features |
Hi,
Just curious - how can one tell the difference
at a glance between the various side by side RV models?
I know that if it's a taildragger it's not a 9,
but that's about it.
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV-List One more -4 |
Joelm
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: smoothweasel(at)juno.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: RV-List One more -4
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 22:28:24 -0500
>
>
>Hey guys,
>
>The DAR came out this morning and did the "inspection". Everything went
>just great.
>He was finished around 11:30am ssssooooooooooo.........I was in the air
>at 11:31am!!!!
>Everything was great. This was my first RV and MAN!!!! these airplanes
>are COOL!!!!
>
>I won't to take this time to thank each one of you for all your thoughts
>and for Matt. and this List.
>There was a whole lot of information that was very useful on this List
>while I was building.
>
>I have a pic. of it if any one is interested I will send it off line as
>an attachment.
>Every one of you is welcome to come visit our place anytime you won't
>The strip is 2400' grass. Come on over and see us.
>
>Joel "Weasel" Graber
>-4 and FLYING!!!!!
>Brooksville MS
>662 574 5210
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features |
The 7 and 9 have larger wing span than the 6. The also have counterbalanced
rudders which the 6 does not have (probably the most distinguishing
feature). The 9 tends to stand a bit higher on its main gear than a 6
giving it a bit of horizontal to nose down look. The 9 has flap fittings
that are visible under the wing, the 7 and 6 does not. Just a few of the
things I could think of.
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: RV-List: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features
>
> Hi,
>
> Just curious - how can one tell the difference
> at a glance between the various side by side RV models?
>
> I know that if it's a taildragger it's not a 9,
> but that's about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: RV-List: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features
>
> Hi,
>
> Just curious - how can one tell the difference
> at a glance between the various side by side RV models?
>
> I know that if it's a taildragger it's not a 9,
> but that's about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
(((((((((((()))))))))))))
Mickey, You need to note the difference between how the seats are arranged
to start with. RV4s and RV8s have tandem seating (front and back). The
difference in the 4 and the 8 is the shape of the rollover bar and the front
of the cowling. With side by side seating RVs you have RV6, RV7 and RV9.
The RV9 wing is longer than the 6 and 7 and it is only offered in nosewheel.
The primary difference in the 6 and 7 is the shape of the wing tips,and the
7 has a larger rudder. Both the 7 and 9 rudder trailing edge end with a
knife's edge of two aluminum sheets coming together. The 6 has a rounded
trailing edge on the rudder. There are other differences, but these are the
primary ones I use.
Keep in mind, you don't see many 9s and you don't see many 7s today. But
this will change drastically over the next few years as hundreds of new 7s
are completed and start flying.
You can't tell which plane is which by looking at the grins on the pilots'
faces. They are all happy fliers.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features |
>
>Hi,
>
>Just curious - how can one tell the difference
>at a glance between the various side by side RV models?
>
>I know that if it's a taildragger it's not a 9,
>but that's about it.
>
If it's a tail dragger, you know it's not a -9A, but it could be a
-9. The first customer built RV-9 (i.e. the tail dragger version)
flew recently.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David L Ahrens <daviddla(at)juno.com> |
What; Annual Chapter 71 BBQ
Where; L45 or Bakersfield Municipal in California, also home to John
Harmon Rocket Works!
When; June 5th, 2004
Who; Every type of plane and their owners are invited. If past years are
a good indicator, their will be a large turn out of RV's and Harmon
Rockets.
We will be charging $10.00 for a meal of Tri-tip, beans, salad and roll.
Serving will begin at 1:00 o'clock. We hope to see you there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Embree <j.embree(at)sympatico.ca> |
I came across this item while looking at cellphones. I have not seen it
mentioned on the list before and was wondering if anyone has checked it
out. The older model appears to be an analog phone/gps. There is a
streetmap version and a pilot version. The newer one, called a NavTalk
GSM has quite a few features rolled into it including a pda. Is there a
pilot version? Any comments?
Roger Embree
RV-4 C-GIRH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New Mexico RV flyers and builders |
Gang,
I'm going on vacation to New Mexico in about two weeks. I would be interested
in meeting some locals to discuss the "RV flying experience" in the state as I
might eventually move my family and my RV-6 to New Mexico.
Please contact offline.
Thanks in advance.
Greg
Honolulu
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J D Newsum" <jdnewsum(at)qwest.net> |
| Subject: | Wing Skin Install question |
Looking for advice on installing the top outboard wing skin on a RV6 QB -
specifically where the top wing skin (W-603)and the leading edge skin
(W-601) butt together along the front spar web flange (W-606).
In the George Orndorf QB construction video, he dimples the skin and
countersinks the wing spar flange. He makes the countersinking the spar
flange part look easy but this looks tricky to me as the flange is only
0.040 thick and only 1/2 wide (not enough to support the width of the
microstop countersink tool).
The QB construction manual describes a method that calls for dimpling the
rivet holes in 0.040 spare flange and additionally countersinks the dimple
in the spar flange to slightly deepen it. (If I am reading the manual
correctly)
Also, should the edge of the W-603 skin along this rivet line need to be
rolled so that it lays down flat?
Any recommendations (do's or don'ts) advice would be appreciated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank van der Hulst (Staff WG)" <F.vanderHulst(at)ucol.ac.nz> |
Sounds like a sampling error.
To measure RPM, it'll count the number of pulses in a fixed period of
time. If, at the beginning and end of the period, pulses happen at just
the right time to be counted, then the count will be one greater than if
the first or last pulse was a fraction earlier or later. This count will
be multiplied by 10 or 20 or 30 or whatever (depending on the counting
time period... a shorter period will give a more responsive tachometer,
a longer period will be more accurate) to scale it to RPM. Assuming an
RPM of 2500, wandering 20/30RPM is an error of about 1%. What accuracy
does the manufacturer claim?
OTOH, it could be a mechanical thing where your RPM is actually varying
a little. I assume that your tests were whilst airborne, and that
therefore the engine was completely warmed up. But did it stay the same
temperature? If not, variations in the engine might account for the
change. Or there may be changes in load... how about the mechanical fuel
pump (does it's load vary?) or alternator (using radio or flashing
lights or other intermittent electrical equipment?) or changes in
airspeed (due perhaps to turbulence)? If you have a CS prop, then slight
variations in its pitch might account for the RPM wandering.
Frank
-----Original Message-----
My Lycoming O-320 runs strong and trouble free...no problems....but
there is one oddity that keeps nagging at me...since I installed a
digital tachometer I can see that the engine RPM wanders up and down 20
to 30 RPM with no throttle, mixture, or altitude/attitude change...I
firmly locked the throttle and mixture so they couldn't move and the
rather slow movement still continued...using dual electronic ignition
system....the drift in RPM occurs over a four or five minute period
typically.
Learn real skills for the real world - Apply online
at http://www.ucol.ac.nz or call 0800 GO UCOL
(0800 46 8265) or txt free 3388 for more information
and make a good move to UCOL Universal College of
Learning.
Enrol with a public institute and be certain of your
future
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Waltner <swaltner(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-7 A-407 Aileron Bracket Help |
On May 19, 2004, at 2:35 PM, Jim Brown wrote:
>
> Karie and Dan;
>
> I rechecked my plans to see what is shown .
>
> On plans #13A dated 03-05-02 the middle bolt call out is for AN3-4A
> Bolt; AN960-10L washer; K1000-3 platenut; and 2 X AN426AD3-4 rivets.
>
> On the exploded view of the aileron on same page of the plans the
> drawings also shows the nutplate.
>
> We received the QB wing kit in September 2003. It would appear that
> there are several different sets of plans.
>
> Sorry for the difference in information???????????
>
> Jim Brown
You are correct that the plans for the aileron changed and the nut to
platenut was one of the changes implemented. I found this out last
night when I was reading ahead on the aileron assembly to figure out
what I needed to do today.
My Preview Plans for an RV-8 purchased in Feb 2003 have the 8/18/00
version of DWG 13A (Aileron Assembly for RV-7,8), while my wing kit
which arrived in August 2003 came with a full size DWG 13A dated 3/5/02
(Aileron Assembly for RV-4,7,8). in the comment block of the new
drawing, it says, "R1 - Drawing completely redrawn". Van's made a
couple changes and added the RV-4 to the 7,8 for a common aileron
design. My preview plans show a notch cutout of the inboard rib to be
able to install a nut behind the middle bolt on the inboard mounting
bracket, while the new plans have this setup as a nutplate. The text
from Section 7 on wing construction was not changed. Both the preview
plans and the wing kit came with Sec 7 dated 1/22/03.
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Bending SS hinge pins |
I'm inserting my horizontal hinge pins for the cowl from the cockpit, rather
than from the front of the cowl... ala Danny King and others. I'd like to
bend the aft end of the pin into a nice circle for use as a finger pull.
Initial attempts at bending this stuff have turned out pretty ugly. Heating
with a propane torch hasn't helped much.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to best do this?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 Finish......
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bending SS hinge pins |
Larry,
Make the pin about 10" longer than needed on the 'short' end where the loop
will be. Then just cold roll it around a piece of 1/2" or 3/4" pipe (or
whatever size suits your needs). When finished just cut off the end.
Or, you can vise-grip the very end of the pin to the pipe and roll the long
end.
Either way worked well for me.
Rick Gray RV6 in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
I'm inserting my horizontal hinge pins for the cowl from the cockpit, rather
than from the front of the cowl... ala Danny King and others. I'd like to
bend the aft end of the pin into a nice circle for use as a finger pull.
Initial attempts at bending this stuff have turned out pretty ugly. Heating
with a propane torch hasn't helped much.
Does anyone have any ideas on how to best do this?
Thanks,
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 Finish......
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Inexpensive Solid State Gyros |
Anyone familiar with these or are they brand new? I just recieved some an
email informing me of their existance.
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html
A couple of weeks ago some listers were expressing interest in electronic
instruments that were simple, inexpensive replacements for conventional
gyros & HSI, etc. No HSI here yet, but the AH, TC and Compass look
interesting.
Curt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | FAA re-register aircraft??? |
The card is correct. I was backwards. Typed faster than the brain was
thinking. Do what the card says.
Sorry for any confusion.
Mike Robertson
>From: Stuart B McCurdy <sturdy(at)att.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list
>Subject: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft???
>Date: Sat, 22 May 2004 08:27:13 -0500
>
>
>Mike,
>
>I just received the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report on my RV-3. As
>John Huft states, it says "Complete and return this form ONLY if the
>information provided on the reverse is incorrect." Also, there is no
>indication you must print and sign, it just has a block for Cancellation
>and a block for Address Change, both of which simply say Signature at
>bottom. Now we hear that if you don't send it in your registration might
>be withdraw. Is this FAA Doublespeak??? What gives????
>
>Stu McCurdy
>
>From: "John Huft" <rv8tor(at)lazy8.net>
>Subject: RE: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
>Certification
>
>
>After many years of airplane ownership, the triennial card has always
>said...
>
>"If you still own this aircraft, and your information is correct, you may
>ignore this notice. If you do not own this aircraft, or if you have moved,
>etc., please correct and return"
>
>Or words to that effect.
>
>If the FAA is going to turn this around, they need to do so in capital
>letters, bold type, with red arrows etc., or there will be lots of new jobs
>for lots of bureaucrats straightening out the mess.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Robertson
>Subject: RE: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
>Certification
>
>
>Kind of. Once an aircraft is registered every three years after that the
>owner is supposed to be getting a card from the registry asking them if
>they
>still have the aircraft. If the owner does then he/she is supposed to fill
>out the card and mail it back in. There is no cost. This is called the
>trienneal review.
>The registry is trying to get a better handle on how many aircraft are
>still
>really in the system and to reduce the amount of paperwork costs in sending
>out ADs only to existing aircraft. This rule has actually been around for
>a
>while but has not been enforced.
>Another rule that they are starting to enforce as of June is the
>requirement
>to both print and sign your name on the application for registration. A
>lot
>of people don't see that in the bottom block of this form it asctually says
>to beth print and sign, so they just sign it and let it go.
>
>Mike Robertson
>
>
> >>From: "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org>
> >>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>To:
> >>Subject: RV-List: FAA re-register aircraft??? was: All Glass
> >>Certification
> >>Date: Fri, 21 May 2004 08:56:26 -0700
> >>
> >>
> >>Hey Mike, what's this mean...
> >>
> >>"FAA's Aircraft Registration Branch will increase its regulatory
> >>enforcement program beginning June 1, 2004. An owner who fails to
>respond
> >>within 60 days under the Triennial Aircraft Registration Report program
> >>might see suspension or revocation of his or her Certificate of Aircraft
> >>Registration and cancellation of the aircraft's "N" number, or
> >>registration. FAA says the increased enforcement is a safety as well as
>a
> >>paperwork issue. "The agency and manufacturers must be able to notify
> >>aircraft owners to distribute safety and maintenance related
>information,
> >>including airworthiness directives," said Mark Lash, manager of the FAA
> >>Civil Aviation Registry. The registry also helps local law enforcement
>and
> >>FSS begin search for a downed or overdue aircraft. FAA says registration
> >>address changes should be updated within 30 days, and it will post the
> >>names of those at risk on its website, www.faa.gov."
> >>
> >>Do we have to re-register our aircraft every three years (Triennial
> >>Aircraft Registration Report program)? Thanks,
> >>
> >> Chuck
> >
>
>
Get 200+ ad-free, high-fidelity stations and LIVE Major League Baseball
Gameday Audio! http://radio.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200491ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Inexpensive Solid State Gyros |
| From: | "Rabaut, Chuck" <Chuck.Rabaut(at)fcle.org> |
They look and sound good. With the prices that reasonable, I might have to buy
a couple and try them out.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Curt Reimer
Subject: RV-List: Inexpensive Solid State Gyros
Anyone familiar with these or are they brand new? I just recieved some an
email informing me of their existance.
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.html
A couple of weeks ago some listers were expressing interest in electronic
instruments that were simple, inexpensive replacements for conventional
gyros & HSI, etc. No HSI here yet, but the AH, TC and Compass look
interesting.
Curt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features |
The way to tell definitevly is that the 9/9A has a rectangular HS where the
7/7A/6/6As all have a swept leading edge. You could tell side by side
because of wing shape and flaps but I find it's easier just to look at the
HS.
To distinguish between the 7 and 6 is more difficult. If you are at a
distance you may not be able to tell. The rudder is a giveaway on the six.
If it does not have a counterbalance then it is a 6. If it does have a
counterbalance it could be either. If you can get up close to the plane
look at the screws that attach the tanks. The 7's have them in a straight
line where the 6's have a staggared pattern. There are some other small
differeneces. Things like the rudder, wing tips, cowling and some of the
stuff in the cabin will help. There will be very few 6's without the scoop
on the bottom of the cowling but there may be some. There will be fewer 6's
with the CB rudder but there will be some. There will be a few 7's with the
small rudder but most will have the big tall rudder from the 9.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Panel
http://www.myrv7.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: RV-List: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features
>
> Hi,
>
> Just curious - how can one tell the difference
> at a glance between the various side by side RV models?
>
> I know that if it's a taildragger it's not a 9,
> but that's about it.
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Pitot tube placement |
Hi,
I'm planning on a dynon pitot tube, and I just received
the Gretz Aero mount. It's not clear to me where would
be the best place to mount this baby. Is there a known
"best" spot? Dynon says the same place that the Van's
pitot is installed is a good spot, but this is directly
on top of the spar. The mounting kit I have from Gretz
assumes you're putting it on a nice flat piece of skin.
Thanks for any tips.
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [RV10] Re: Landing/NAV Lights |
rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com,
"RV10(at)yahoogroups.com"
<40B1FD7B.7060402(at)MyRV10.com>
Yes, I will have HID's (25w HID / Metal Halide lamps) available soon that
will fit in the same space my current Halogen lamps...
I should be getting the first set this week, and once I an satisfied with
them I will put them up on the site for sale...
I also sell a strobe solution that fit's in the tip as well, and if
installed and grounded correctly there is NO radio interference
whatsoever...
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Olson" <tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: [RV10] Re: Landing/NAV Lights
Are these kits that mount in the wingtips capable of HID lamps?
I haven't really thought much about where/how I want to mount
my landing lights yet, except that I'm 100% sure I want HID's.
My 2nd question then is: What about interference to NAV/COM's?
I'm planning to go with wingtip and tail strobes, NAV lights, COM
antennas on the belly (because I want beautiful signal more than
an antenna free plane), and I have no idea where I'll put the NAV
antennas....I just want no chance of either the HID's or the Strobes
interfering with the NAV or the COM.
Tim
#40170
Bill VonDane wrote:
> Hey Ron...
>
> I sell a landing light kit that using MR16 bulbs and fits in the RV-10
wing
> tips... In fact, I gave the guys at Van's one of my kits a couple years
> ago... It's funny that they have one of their own now...
>
> Anyway, if you don't want to wait for theirs, you can check out mine at:
> www.creativair.com/cva
>
> -Bill VonDane
> EAA TC / RV-8A - Colorado
> www.creativair.com
> www.epanelbuilder.com
> www.rv8a.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "rv8grover" <rv8grover(at)charter.net>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 6:26 PM
> Subject: [RV10] Re: Landing/NAV Lights
>
>
> Listers:
> Page 24-1 of the wing instructions calls out a LL RV-10 MR-16
> wing tip landing light kit. I tried to order it on line with no
> luck. It's not available yet but Van's says shouldn't be too
> long ....still getting it into production.
> Ron Grover
> 40063
>
>
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
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<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wayne @ Aircraft Engravers" <wayne(at)engravers.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features |
Not to be smart, you could look at the aircraft's data tag on the left, aft
section of the fuselage.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Birkelbach" <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features
>
> The way to tell definitevly is that the 9/9A has a rectangular HS where
the
> 7/7A/6/6As all have a swept leading edge. You could tell side by side
> because of wing shape and flaps but I find it's easier just to look at the
> HS.
>
> To distinguish between the 7 and 6 is more difficult. If you are at a
> distance you may not be able to tell. The rudder is a giveaway on the
six.
> If it does not have a counterbalance then it is a 6. If it does have a
> counterbalance it could be either. If you can get up close to the plane
> look at the screws that attach the tanks. The 7's have them in a straight
> line where the 6's have a staggared pattern. There are some other small
> differeneces. Things like the rudder, wing tips, cowling and some of the
> stuff in the cabin will help. There will be very few 6's without the
scoop
> on the bottom of the cowling but there may be some. There will be fewer
6's
> with the CB rudder but there will be some. There will be a few 7's with
the
> small rudder but most will have the big tall rudder from the 9.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB (Reserved) - Panel
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: RV6/7/9 distinguishing features
>
>
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > Just curious - how can one tell the difference
> > at a glance between the various side by side RV models?
> >
> > I know that if it's a taildragger it's not a 9,
> > but that's about it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Mickey
> >
> > --
> > Mickey Coggins
> > http://www.rv8.ch/
> > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement |
> I'm planning on a dynon pitot tube, and I just received
> the Gretz Aero mount. It's not clear to me where would
> be the best place to mount this baby. Is there a known
> "best" spot? Dynon says the same place that the Van's
FWIW, I mounted mine aft of the spar, in the bay just outboard of the
outboard inspection panel.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement |
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm planning on a dynon pitot tube, and I just received
>the Gretz Aero mount. It's not clear to me where would
>be the best place to mount this baby. Is there a known
>"best" spot? Dynon says the same place that the Van's
>pitot is installed is a good spot, but this is directly
>on top of the spar. The mounting kit I have from Gretz
>assumes you're putting it on a nice flat piece of skin.
>
>Thanks for any tips.
>
>Mickey
The laws of physics are quite friendly as far as pitot tube mountings
go. The local velocities vary at different locations around the
airframe. Bernoulli's Law tells us that the static pressure will
vary as the local velocity changes. But, the air comes to a stop in
the pitot tube, and the pressure will then be the same, no matter how
the local velocity varied before the air stopped.
The pitot tube will work correctly as long as it is far enough from
the skin to be out of the boundary layer, it is not in the prop wash,
or in the wake from something else, and it is roughly aligned into
the relative airflow (up to a 15 degree misalignment won't have much
effect). So you don't have to worry about moving it a few inches
from Van's location.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement |
My gretz tube came in a box with no instructions or mounting kit.....so I'm
in the same boat. Aft of the spar makes sense to me also, but what did you
guys do to stiffen up the area it attaches to? Does the flange on the
mounting tube just lay on top of the wing skin or is it supposed to sit
flush?...that would require a pretty big hole to be cut into the wing skin.
I was considering cutting the aero shaped hole in the skin and putting the
flange on the inside of the wing as well....any comments? That is probably
what I am supposed to do........
Thanks in advance....Evan
RV10 wings
www.evansaviationproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot tube placement
>
> > I'm planning on a dynon pitot tube, and I just received
> > the Gretz Aero mount. It's not clear to me where would
> > be the best place to mount this baby. Is there a known
> > "best" spot? Dynon says the same place that the Van's
>
> FWIW, I mounted mine aft of the spar, in the bay just outboard of the
> outboard inspection panel.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Cours <rv-j(at)moriarti.org> |
| Subject: | when problems are problems, and when they're not |
As I've been building this airplane, every few hours I run into
something that's wrong. Maybe it's a rivet that's too close to the edge,
maybe a place where I goofed and trimmed something to the wrong
dimensions, and so on.
When that happens, I e-mail Van's with a description of the thing, and
sometimes a small picture, and get a prompt, helpful answer. Sometimes
that answer is "it's fine, don't worry about it", and sometimes it's
"yep, better replace it". Either answer is great 'cause it gets me back
on track with the building.
However, there's a problem. The problem is that I'm an engineer.
Like most engineers, it really starts to bug me to work on something I
don't understand. Unfortunately, I learned electrical and computer
engineering, not aircraft structural engineering. That means my math's
pretty weak and I couldn't calculate beam stresses to save my life.
Right now, I'm getting this great practical education in what's right
and what's wrong -- I goof, I find out if it's OK or not, and I learn --
but an airplane is pretty complicated. At this rate it's going to take
me 'till the next century of flight to screw up enough to understand
this beast.
Can anyone recommend a book on aircraft structural engineering for
people whose eyes glaze over when they see greek letters in equations? I
don't mean an "acceptable repair methods" kind of thing: I'd really like
to be able to visualize the stresses in the airframe, so I can
understand why Van designed it the way he did.
thanks,
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Will & Lynda Allen" <linenwool(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Pitot tube placement |
Which gretz mounting bracket works for the Dynon pitot? At spruce, I see
two different part #'s; one for AN5812 and one for AN5814 pitot tubes.
Thanks,
-Will Allen
rv8 wings
North Bend, WA.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
Johnson
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot tube placement
My gretz tube came in a box with no instructions or mounting kit.....so I'm
in the same boat. Aft of the spar makes sense to me also, but what did you
guys do to stiffen up the area it attaches to? Does the flange on the
mounting tube just lay on top of the wing skin or is it supposed to sit
flush?...that would require a pretty big hole to be cut into the wing skin.
I was considering cutting the aero shaped hole in the skin and putting the
flange on the inside of the wing as well....any comments? That is probably
what I am supposed to do........
Thanks in advance....Evan
RV10 wings
www.evansaviationproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot tube placement
>
> > I'm planning on a dynon pitot tube, and I just received
> > the Gretz Aero mount. It's not clear to me where would
> > be the best place to mount this baby. Is there a known
> > "best" spot? Dynon says the same place that the Van's
>
> FWIW, I mounted mine aft of the spar, in the bay just outboard of the
> outboard inspection panel.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bending SS hinge pins |
In a message dated 5/23/04 10:18:08 PM Central Daylight Time,
Larry(at)bowenaero.com writes:
> I'm inserting my horizontal hinge pins for the cowl from the cockpit,
> rather
> than from the front of the cowl... ala Danny King and others. I'd like to
> bend the aft end of the pin into a nice circle for use as a finger pull.
Hi Larry-
I bent mine at 90 degrees, about 3/4" long and they still pull easily- I did
it like this so the bent end can be inserted into a hole in a little piece of
angle bonded to the inside of the skin with VHB tape to secure the pin. Has
worked well so far, but I'd definately make them as long as practical- mine
only come through the firewall about 7". I wish I'd made them at least 5 or 6
inches longer, maybe more...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A, flying 75 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ronnie Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | New Electronic Instruments |
A friend found this on the internet. Anybody know anything about them?
I don't know if this has been posted before but the prices for these
electronic instruments are hard to beat.
http://www.sportflyingshop.com/Instr/Stratomaster/SmartSingles/smartsingles.
html
If they're any good at all, it would be an inexpensive way to back up vacuum
gauges or, with a small, isolable backup batter, could provide back up for
an all-elect system. I can't imagine they draw much current. Anyone have
any experience with them?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Pitot tube placement |
If you go to http://www.gretzaero.com/ you can order it direct and you
can specify it is for the Dynon pitot.
Dick Tasker
Will & Lynda Allen wrote:
>
>Which gretz mounting bracket works for the Dynon pitot? At spruce, I see
>two different part #'s; one for AN5812 and one for AN5814 pitot tubes.
>
>Thanks,
>
>-Will Allen
> rv8 wings
> North Bend, WA.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Evan and Megan
>Johnson
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot tube placement
>
>
>
>My gretz tube came in a box with no instructions or mounting kit.....so I'm
>in the same boat. Aft of the spar makes sense to me also, but what did you
>guys do to stiffen up the area it attaches to? Does the flange on the
>mounting tube just lay on top of the wing skin or is it supposed to sit
>flush?...that would require a pretty big hole to be cut into the wing skin.
>I was considering cutting the aero shaped hole in the skin and putting the
>flange on the inside of the wing as well....any comments? That is probably
>what I am supposed to do........
>Thanks in advance....Evan
>RV10 wings
>www.evansaviationproducts.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Pitot tube placement
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I'm planning on a dynon pitot tube, and I just received
>>>the Gretz Aero mount. It's not clear to me where would
>>>be the best place to mount this baby. Is there a known
>>>"best" spot? Dynon says the same place that the Van's
>>>
>>>
>>FWIW, I mounted mine aft of the spar, in the bay just outboard of the
>>outboard inspection panel.
>>
>>)_( Dan
>>RV-7 N714D
>>http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: when problems are problems, and when they're not |
At 11:53 AM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
>
>However, there's a problem. The problem is that I'm an engineer.
Me too, Jeff. Graduated Industrial then moved to software. However, with
my RV, I consider myself a builder.
My understanding of engineering is that we have theories and rules of thumb
(and swags!) to help us design things with a better chance that they will
not fail. If calculations are correct and things still fail, then we
adjust our rules and theories. I have another problem and that is that I
am a skeptic made extreme by studying philosophy after the engineering! As
a skeptic I have trouble accepting that what I am building is really
designed just right. So I have studied aircraft structures and recommend
"Aircraft Structures" by Peery and "Fatigue of Materials" by Suresh.
Peery is comprehensible but Suresh is tough going for me.
Even if I understood everything in these two volumes, I would not be
anxious to fly something I designed. I might copy some known workable
design and make a few changes, however. I believe that is how much small
aircraft design is done.
Even tho Van is not an aero engineer - his degree was "General Engineering"
- I'd fly anything he designed. If he tested it first, of course!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Re: [RV10] Re: Landing/NAV Lights |
rv8list(at)yahoogroups.com,
"RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
<40B1FD7B.7060402(at)MyRV10.com> <010701c441a9$90fe7450$51e25f0a@vondane>"
<20040524131837.B32447(at)tondu.com>
Yes, you will be able to upgrade.....and right now it looks like the price
for the HIDs will be $684 for the pair... That's the lamps, ballasts, and
connectors... If you buy the whole landing light kit with the HID's it will
be $799...
Also, to keep the cost down, I will be offering them in singles, so you
could put an HID in one tip for landing, and a Halogen in the other for
taxiing... Then you would be looking at $407 for both sides...
Please note... Due to the longer warm-up time of HID lamps, they are not
compatoble with wig-wag flasher units...
These are just estimates at this time, I will be posting more information as
I have it...
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Tondu" <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Re: [RV10] Re: Landing/NAV Lights
On 05/24 10:09, Bill VonDane wrote:
> Yes, I will have HID's (25w HID / Metal Halide lamps) available soon that
> will fit in the same space my current Halogen lamps...
>
> I should be getting the first set this week, and once I an satisfied with
> them I will put them up on the site for sale...
>
> I also sell a strobe solution that fit's in the tip as well, and if
> installed and grounded correctly there is NO radio interference
> whatsoever...
Thanks for the update Bill. I have a pair of your Halogen lamps,
uninstalled, still in the box. Will I be able to upgrade to the HID?
What will be the approximate upgrade costs if so?
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.tondu.com/rv7
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: New Electronic Instruments |
At 12:26 PM 5/24/2004, you wrote:
>
>If they're any good at all, it would be an inexpensive way to back up vacuum
>gauges
Replace the vacuum! Get it out of your bird. Sell the parts if you can
and if not send them to the Salvation Army or Goodwill.
Also check out the Dynon. Fantastic device!
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual electronis
ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast. Here is the problem,
the
plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes thestick and can be felt
throughout the plane. The vibration increases slightly as the RMP decreases. I
have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all control surfaces
and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have fixed pitch props snd
less HP. Any idears .
Sam Butler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: when problems are problems, and when they're not |
In a message dated 5/24/2004 4:19:24 PM Eastern Daylight Time, kempthornes(at)earthlink.net
writes:
> As
> a skeptic I have trouble accepting that what I am building
> is really
> designed just right.
Um, Hal, shouldn't that read, "As a skeptic I have trouble accepting that what
I am building is real"?
You sound like you're only halfway to being a skeptic.
This is not meant as a flame, and even if it were, no need to worry, since we,
your RV list buddies, aren't demonstrably real anyway ;-)
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-7 vibration |
Is the prop on the correct index bushing? Track the prop and make sure the
tips are with in spec. Engine mount bolts tight from the engine to the
mount and the mount to the fire wall? I know a guy who bought a prop/engine
combo and the prop vibrated badly. He checked the tip run out and what he
found made him go out and buy a new prop!!! Oh, and yes, his vibration went
away.
>
>My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual electronis
>ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast. Here is the
>problem, the
>plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes thestick and can be felt
>throughout the plane. The vibration increases slightly as the RMP
>decreases. I
>have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all control surfaces
>and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have fixed pitch
>props snd
>less HP. Any idears .
>
>Sam Butler
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
There may be many reasons but one thing to do is check your engine mounts
Sam.
- Are they conical or dynafocal??
- Are they in good condition or in need of replacement?
- Are they all torqued?
- Did the engine "settle" and one is more loose?
Just some things to think about.
See Archives ("All Shook Up")
James ... been there in some fashion
(about to get stuck with the callsign "Vibes")
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sabswbc(at)aol.com
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 4:36 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: rv-7 vibration
>
>
> My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual electronis
> ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast. Here
> is the problem, the
> plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes thestick and
> can be felt
> throughout the plane. The vibration increases slightly as the RMP
> decreases. I
> have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all
> control surfaces
> and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have fixed
> pitch props snd
> less HP. Any idears .
>
> Sam Butler
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
I'll add a couple things -
Does it vibrate equally when run on only one or the other ignition?
What about the ignition timing?
Does lean/rich make any difference? If so, it could be combustion
related.
Can you duplicate it on the ground? If so, you might remove the spinner
and do a run up to eliminate that.
Do you have a fuel flow meter and individual EGT's? You might want to
plot EGT's vs fuel flow from well rich of peak to well lean of peak.
Perhaps one cylinder is not getting enough juice.
Keep us posted.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 472 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
> --> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Is the prop on the correct index bushing? Track the prop and
> make sure the
> tips are with in spec. Engine mount bolts tight from the
> engine to the
> mount and the mount to the fire wall? I know a guy who bought
> a prop/engine
> combo and the prop vibrated badly. He checked the tip run out
> and what he
> found made him go out and buy a new prop!!! Oh, and yes, his
> vibration went
> away.
>
> >
> >My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual
> electronis
> >ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast.
> Here is the
> >problem, the plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes
> >thestick and can be felt throughout the plane. The vibration
> increases
> >slightly as the RMP decreases. I
> >have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all
> control surfaces
> >and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have
> fixed pitch
> >props snd
> >less HP. Any idears .
> >
> >Sam Butler
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
> ===========
> Matronics Forums.
> ===========
> ===========
> ===========
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-7 vibration |
You may also to try to find a person that does dynamic balancing of the
engine and prop and let him have a go at the vibration analysis.
Mike Robertson
>From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-7 vibration
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 14:03:27 -0700
>
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Is the prop on the correct index bushing? Track the prop and make sure the
>tips are with in spec. Engine mount bolts tight from the engine to the
>mount and the mount to the fire wall? I know a guy who bought a prop/engine
>combo and the prop vibrated badly. He checked the tip run out and what he
>found made him go out and buy a new prop!!! Oh, and yes, his vibration went
>away.
>
> >
> >My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual electronis
> >ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast. Here is the
> >problem, the
> >plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes thestick and can be
>felt
> >throughout the plane. The vibration increases slightly as the RMP
> >decreases. I
> >have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all control
>surfaces
> >and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have fixed pitch
> >props snd
> >less HP. Any idears .
> >
> >Sam Butler
> >
> >
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: rv-7 vibration |
I did have the prop and engine dynamically balanced. Also the vibration does
not change with leaning or either ignition. Timing is 25 degrees at 2500 rpm
and is the same on both.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Duane Bentley" <dbentley(at)fuse.net> |
I have my RV6 completed and ready to fly. I have an 0-360 with LASAR
installed by Lycoming. I've run into a problem with the LH magneto not
firing and have been in contact with Unison, who have been very helpful
but have run out of suggestions. Harry Fenton is no longer with Unison.
The P-Leads for LH and RH switches go to my panel and are terminated in
toggle switches to ground. They are identical in setup. On run up, I
shut off the LH Mag and the engine keeps running. The enunciator light
comes on telling me I'm in backup mode. I turn the LH mag back to run,
and shut off the RH Mag. The engine immediately dies. I've checked out
the wiring from the LASAR controller to the instrument panel and to
ground. It is correct and shows the wire is open until the toggle
switch goes to off.
Unison said I must have timed the LH mag wrong. The timing kit (for
LASAR) shows that the RH and LH mags are synchronized, both going on a
25 degrees BTC. I removed the LH mag, put in the pin, reinstalled the
mag with the engine at 25 degrees BTC, removed the pin, and secured the
mag. On start up and checkout, same response. I completely
disconnected the ground shield from the LH mag with no change. I then
disconnected the ground shield and the connector to the controller,
again no change in response. In my understanding, there should be
nothing grounding the mag at this point, but the engine still shuts down
with RH mag off.
Unison said I did all the troubleshooting they could think off, and to
send them back the LH mag. I did so and they quickly tested it. No
problem found was their response this morning. They are sending me back
a new mag, however.
What do I do next after the new unit returns? If nothing is changed, I
doubt that the results will be any different. A fellow RV builder
loaned me his induction timing light to check that the LH mag is giving
out spark. Unison's last note was to check the drive gear for the LH
mag, make sure it is installed and in the correct position to drive the
mag. I assume he means inside the accessory case. I have the Lycoming
manual. Can this gear be seen and removed with the aft case installed.
I don't know how it could be out of position and mag still turn so that
the timing kit still show the "Sensor BKR PT" light go on (LH Mag) at
the right angle point. I would think this is telling me that the mag is
turning.
Spark plugs.. as delivered with the engine, REM38. I've removed the top
four and had desiccant plugs installed for a couple of years. But the
LH mag uses only two of the top plugs, not all four, so if they have
become defective, I'd thought I would have seen it on the RH mag
response as well.
Stymied..
Duane Bentley
RV6 N515DB
Airworthiness Certificate in hand - waiting to fly
West Chester, OH
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
>
> I have my RV6 completed and ready to fly. I have an 0-360
> with LASAR installed by Lycoming. I've run into a problem
> with the LH magneto not firing and have been in contact with
> Unison, who have been very helpful but have run out of
> suggestions. Harry Fenton is no longer with Unison.
>
>
> The P-Leads for LH and RH switches go to my panel and are
> terminated in toggle switches to ground. They are identical
> in setup. On run up, I shut off the LH Mag and the engine
> keeps running. The enunciator light comes on telling me I'm
> in backup mode. I turn the LH mag back to run, and shut off
> the RH Mag. The engine immediately dies. I've checked out
> the wiring from the LASAR controller to the instrument panel
> and to ground. It is correct and shows the wire is open
> until the toggle switch goes to off.
>
>
> Unison said I must have timed the LH mag wrong. The timing kit (for
> LASAR) shows that the RH and LH mags are synchronized, both
> going on a 25 degrees BTC. I removed the LH mag, put in the
> pin, reinstalled the mag with the engine at 25 degrees BTC,
> removed the pin, and secured the mag. On start up and
> checkout, same response. I completely disconnected the
> ground shield from the LH mag with no change. I then
> disconnected the ground shield and the connector to the
> controller, again no change in response. In my
> understanding, there should be nothing grounding the mag at
> this point, but the engine still shuts down with RH mag off.
>
>
> Unison said I did all the troubleshooting they could think
> off, and to send them back the LH mag. I did so and they
> quickly tested it. No problem found was their response this
> morning. They are sending me back a new mag, however.
>
>
> What do I do next after the new unit returns? If nothing is
> changed, I doubt that the results will be any different. A
> fellow RV builder loaned me his induction timing light to
> check that the LH mag is giving out spark. Unison's last
> note was to check the drive gear for the LH mag, make sure it
> is installed and in the correct position to drive the mag. I
> assume he means inside the accessory case. I have the
> Lycoming manual. Can this gear be seen and removed with the
> aft case installed.
>
>
> I don't know how it could be out of position and mag still
> turn so that the timing kit still show the "Sensor BKR PT"
> light go on (LH Mag) at the right angle point. I would think
> this is telling me that the mag is turning.
>
>
> Spark plugs.. as delivered with the engine, REM38. I've
> removed the top four and had desiccant plugs installed for a
> couple of years. But the LH mag uses only two of the top
> plugs, not all four, so if they have become defective, I'd
> thought I would have seen it on the RH mag response as well.
>
>
> Stymied..
>
>
> Duane Bentley
Duane,
I had this happen after about 380 hours. The left mag simply croaked.
I believe it was something electronic inside, and not the typical
mechanical stuff mags do. Unison sent me a new replacement, free of
charge, even though I had flown the plane for two years. I don't
exactly have a warm, fuzzy feeling about the system any more, but Unison
is standing behind it. The fact that they sent me a new one without
even getting the old one first tells me that they might have a
not-so-infrequent problem with something in there. They may be
suspecting something flaky in yours, if it tested ok but they are
sending you a new one anyway.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 472 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: when problems are problems, and when they're not |
Hey Jeff. Go Easy man. Try to refine your work habits and not to make
errors. You will sleep better at night. Follow the engineer's design and
construction carefully. It takes a lot of time to reengineer anything.
REread the first few chapters in the construction manual to refresh some of
the basics. Overcome the urge to rush ahead. If you deviate for what ever
reason, you stand a chance of being wrong. ITS only YOUR life in the plane.
And if you decide to sell it to someone rather than fly it, you will always
know about those things that were not right according to the designing
engineer.
So, again, I say, don't make errors. Read the plans and construction book
carefully, measure twice, turn everything around backwards and look at it
that way before you decide this is how it goes on. And the last thing I can
tell you on this is after you think you did somethng right go back and check
to make sure it is really right.
Life is too short to become an aeronautical engineer at this stage of the
game. No one but you and Vans knws how many parts you bought a second time
to make it according to design.
Keep that UPS driver coming to your house. After a while, it will business
as usual. FWIW, The local UPS driver knows me so well, I get a Christmas
card.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Cours" <rv-j(at)moriarti.org>
Subject: RV-List: when problems are problems, and when they're not
>
> As I've been building this airplane, every few hours I run into
> something that's wrong. Maybe it's a rivet that's too close to the edge,
> maybe a place where I goofed and trimmed something to the wrong
> dimensions, and so on.
>
> When that happens, I e-mail Van's with a description of the thing, and
> sometimes a small picture, and get a prompt, helpful answer. Sometimes
> that answer is "it's fine, don't worry about it", and sometimes it's
> "yep, better replace it". Either answer is great 'cause it gets me back
> on track with the building.
>
> However, there's a problem. The problem is that I'm an engineer.
>
> Like most engineers, it really starts to bug me to work on something I
> don't understand. Unfortunately, I learned electrical and computer
> engineering, not aircraft structural engineering. That means my math's
> pretty weak and I couldn't calculate beam stresses to save my life.
>
> Right now, I'm getting this great practical education in what's right
> and what's wrong -- I goof, I find out if it's OK or not, and I learn --
> but an airplane is pretty complicated. At this rate it's going to take
> me 'till the next century of flight to screw up enough to understand
> this beast.
>
> Can anyone recommend a book on aircraft structural engineering for
> people whose eyes glaze over when they see greek letters in equations? I
> don't mean an "acceptable repair methods" kind of thing: I'd really like
> to be able to visualize the stresses in the airframe, so I can
> understand why Van designed it the way he did.
>
> thanks,
> Jeff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Sam,
In addition to all the good questions and advice, I'd suggest you check your
baffling: I had a vibration that I couldn't track down either. Did the
balance and a many of the other suggestions. Call Van's and they suggested I
check the baffling - in particular if it connects the engine to the cowling.
What I found was the forward rubber baffle material that I'd screwed to the
lip opening on both the air inlets. Figured it was rubber and would maintain
the isolation. When I removed the screws and let the flap float -
vibrations went away almost entirely ! On a side note did not see any
increase in oil temps - which is the reason I attached the rubber baffing in
the first place.
Good Luck,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A (200ho - c/s)
>From: Sabswbc(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: rv-7 vibration
>Date: Mon, 24 May 2004 16:36:26 EDT
>
>
>My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual electronis
>ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast. Here is the
>problem, the
>plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes thestick and can be
>felt
>throughout the plane. The vibration increases slightly as the RMP
>decreases. I
>have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all control surfaces
>and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have fixed pitch props
>snd
>less HP. Any idears .
>
>Sam Butler
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: when problems are problems, and when they're not |
>
>
>Can anyone recommend a book on aircraft structural engineering for
>people whose eyes glaze over when they see greek letters in equations? I
>don't mean an "acceptable repair methods" kind of thing: I'd really like
>to be able to visualize the stresses in the airframe, so I can
>understand why Van designed it the way he did.
Marks' Mechanical Engineers' Handbook (McGraw-Hill)
Older editions of Marks' are better than newer editions, in my
opinion.
Once you have the basics of beam theory under control, you might
wish to get a demo copy of ANSYS. http://www.ansys.com/ansys/designspace.htm
You can then see how the stresses actually distribute. You will
discover that, near the ends, beams don't behave like anything resembling
beam theory.
What you will come to realize, is that mechanical (structural)
engineering is not nearly as neat and tidy as electrical engineering is.
Nearly every project is a tangled ball of twine without a straightforward
solution. Unlike electrical components, mechanical components often can't
be modeled with simple equations. Electrical engineers moan when faced with
transmission line or antenna design because every component effects every
other component in a non-linear manner. These non-linear problems are
typical for mechanical engineers. You can calculate the voltage and current
with great accuracy in every part of a very complex circuit, but you can
only take an educated guess as to the stress distribution in a crankshaft.
Even with the best stress analysis software, you know the answer is
probably no better than plus or minus 10%.
Unlike electrical engineers, mechanical engineers are not upset
when they cannot have an exact solution. They are not upset with what they
know is a crappy solution, as long as they are confident that the solution
is within safe bounds and probably won't fail. They are comfortable with a
percentage of uncertainty, because they have no choice.
Since you are working on a mechanical project, you must cultivate
a more relaxed attitude towards an unavoidable degree of uncertainty.
Bill Dube'
I have a degree in mechanical engineering, and very nearly a degree in
electrical engineering, so I am uniquely qualified to understand your
dilemma. I can take the persecutive of either (or both) type of engineer.
Check out my LED position lights at
<http://www.killacycle.com/Lights.htm>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: rv-7 vibration |
Another source of vibration is the alternator and its drive system. You
might have a poorly balanced armature, a bad pulley, or a bad belt. Remember
it is turning 6000 to 9000 rpm depending on your alternator pulley.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: rv-7 vibration
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Is the prop on the correct index bushing? Track the prop and make sure the
> tips are with in spec. Engine mount bolts tight from the engine to the
> mount and the mount to the fire wall? I know a guy who bought a
prop/engine
> combo and the prop vibrated badly. He checked the tip run out and what he
> found made him go out and buy a new prop!!! Oh, and yes, his vibration
went
> away.
>
> >
> >My rv-7 has a 200 hp with constant speed prop. It has dual electronis
> >ignition and fuel injection and of course, it is very fast. Here is the
> >problem, the
> >plane has a vibration that i cannot find. It shakes thestick and can be
felt
> >throughout the plane. The vibration increases slightly as the RMP
> >decreases. I
> >have expended the exhaust, balanced the prop and check all control
surfaces
> >and still the shack. All the other RV's i have flown have fixed pitch
> >props snd
> >less HP. Any idears .
> >
> >Sam Butler
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re:New Electronic Instruments |
| From: | "Martin Hone" <martin.hone(at)tradergroup.com.au> |
RydEYXkgUm9ubmllLA0KIA0KVGhlIFNtYXJ0IFNpbmdsZXMgYW5kIGVsZWN0cm9uaWMsIHNvbGlk
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bHksIGF0IGEgYmlnIHVsdHJhbGlnaHQgZmx5LWluLCBhbmQgZ2F2ZSB0aGUgQUggYSBiaXQgb2Yg
YSB3b3JrLW91dCBhdCB0aGVpciBib290aC4gSSBzaW1wbHkgaGVsZCB0aGUgcmVtb3RlIGhlYWQg
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DQogDQpNYXJ0aW4gaW4gT3oNCg=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR Problem |
Harry Fenton still will answer mag questions... gippsaero(at)charter.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: LASAR Problem
>
>
> >
> > I have my RV6 completed and ready to fly. I have an 0-360
> > with LASAR installed by Lycoming. I've run into a problem
> > with the LH magneto not firing and have been in contact with
> > Unison, who have been very helpful but have run out of
> > suggestions. Harry Fenton is no longer with Unison.
> >
> >
> > The P-Leads for LH and RH switches go to my panel and are
> > terminated in toggle switches to ground. They are identical
> > in setup. On run up, I shut off the LH Mag and the engine
> > keeps running. The enunciator light comes on telling me I'm
> > in backup mode. I turn the LH mag back to run, and shut off
> > the RH Mag. The engine immediately dies. I've checked out
> > the wiring from the LASAR controller to the instrument panel
> > and to ground. It is correct and shows the wire is open
> > until the toggle switch goes to off.
> >
> >
> > Unison said I must have timed the LH mag wrong. The timing kit (for
> > LASAR) shows that the RH and LH mags are synchronized, both
> > going on a 25 degrees BTC. I removed the LH mag, put in the
> > pin, reinstalled the mag with the engine at 25 degrees BTC,
> > removed the pin, and secured the mag. On start up and
> > checkout, same response. I completely disconnected the
> > ground shield from the LH mag with no change. I then
> > disconnected the ground shield and the connector to the
> > controller, again no change in response. In my
> > understanding, there should be nothing grounding the mag at
> > this point, but the engine still shuts down with RH mag off.
> >
> >
> > Unison said I did all the troubleshooting they could think
> > off, and to send them back the LH mag. I did so and they
> > quickly tested it. No problem found was their response this
> > morning. They are sending me back a new mag, however.
> >
> >
> > What do I do next after the new unit returns? If nothing is
> > changed, I doubt that the results will be any different. A
> > fellow RV builder loaned me his induction timing light to
> > check that the LH mag is giving out spark. Unison's last
> > note was to check the drive gear for the LH mag, make sure it
> > is installed and in the correct position to drive the mag. I
> > assume he means inside the accessory case. I have the
> > Lycoming manual. Can this gear be seen and removed with the
> > aft case installed.
> >
> >
> > I don't know how it could be out of position and mag still
> > turn so that the timing kit still show the "Sensor BKR PT"
> > light go on (LH Mag) at the right angle point. I would think
> > this is telling me that the mag is turning.
> >
> >
> > Spark plugs.. as delivered with the engine, REM38. I've
> > removed the top four and had desiccant plugs installed for a
> > couple of years. But the LH mag uses only two of the top
> > plugs, not all four, so if they have become defective, I'd
> > thought I would have seen it on the RH mag response as well.
> >
> >
> > Stymied..
> >
> >
> > Duane Bentley
>
> Duane,
>
> I had this happen after about 380 hours. The left mag simply croaked.
> I believe it was something electronic inside, and not the typical
> mechanical stuff mags do. Unison sent me a new replacement, free of
> charge, even though I had flown the plane for two years. I don't
> exactly have a warm, fuzzy feeling about the system any more, but Unison
> is standing behind it. The fact that they sent me a new one without
> even getting the old one first tells me that they might have a
> not-so-infrequent problem with something in there. They may be
> suspecting something flaky in yours, if it tested ok but they are
> sending you a new one anyway.
>
> Alex Peterson
> Maple Grove, MN
> RV6-A N66AP 472 hours
> http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: RPM "Wandering" |
> I can see that the engine RPM wanders up and down 20 to 30 RPM with no
> throttle, mixture, or altitude/attitude change...I firmly locked the
> throttle and mixture so they couldn't move and the rather slow movement
> still continued...using dual electronic ignition system....the drift in
RPM
> occurs over a four or five minute period typically.
Not sure if we are talking about a fixed pitch prop here but you didn't
mention otherwise. With my fixed pitch prop, conventional mags and digital
tach I find my RPM varies a bit too. I have always figured this is an
example of a digital gauge providing a little too much information.
Thirty RPM of variation is only around +/- one percent. That slight of a
variation might be hard to see on an analog tachometer, but easy to notice
on a digital one. Five minutes is a fairly long time constant - around
sixteen miles at cruise speeds.I would think that over five minutes, or
sixteen miles, there is going to be some kind of variation in the air mass
we are flying through - air temperature, pressure, vertical velocity, etc.
That variability will either affect the engine directly or else cause our
altitude to vary slightly. As we notice the altitude change we would
instinctively adjust the attitude of the aircraft to keep our altitude
constant, and with the slight change in angle of attack, our speed, and RPM
in the case of a fixed pitch prop, would vary slightly. Or the autopilot
will make the same correction for us and all we would notice would be the
RPM slowly changing. This kind of attitude/RPM relationship is pretty
obvious if you are flying through summer thermals, but it must exist in
every air mass to a certain extent.
I have done about twenty 4-way GPS speed runs in my airplane (RV-6 O-320),
and I find that nailing an altitude and digital RPM around a five mile box
with a fixed pitch prop is really hard. The best I can manage while leaving
the throttle and mixture locked is about +/-20 RPM. In cruise I seldom try
to set the RPM exactly. I just find a suitable setting based on fuel flow
and let the RPM wander where it will.
If we are talking about a constant speed prop, the above could still happen
depending on how accurately the govenor tracks a set RPM. There could be a
bit of hysteresis or error in the system. Since I have no experience with CS
props I'll stop there.
cheers,
Curt Reimer
RV-6 C-GACR
140 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Stoffel <rickstoffel(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | RV-4 elevator to horiz stab fitting problem |
Hello all,
This has me stumped and I couldn' t find this exact situation in the archives.
. .
When fitting my elevators to the HS Stab, I can only rotate the rod end bearings
about 3-4 times into the nutplates to make everything fit perfectly. Any more
rotations and the elevators begin to move too far forward and the weighted
arm sticks out in front of the Horizontal Stab.
It seems like a longer version of the HEIM 3614M bearing would be the best choice
to solve this but I can't find one (or an equivelant if there is one). I'm
guessing 3-4 rotations into the bearing is not enough, is it?
Thanks,
Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 elevator to horiz stab fitting problem |
I had to relieve the HS about 1/4" or 3/8 " to clear the elevators on my
RV-8. Maybe the same on the 4.......
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 finishing....
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Richard Stoffel [mailto:rickstoffel(at)sbcglobal.net]
> Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 11:04 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RV-4 elevator to horiz stab fitting problem
>
>
> -->
>
> Hello all,
>
> This has me stumped and I couldn' t find this exact situation
> in the archives. . .
>
> When fitting my elevators to the HS Stab, I can only rotate
> the rod end bearings about 3-4 times into the nutplates to
> make everything fit perfectly. Any more rotations and the
> elevators begin to move too far forward and the weighted arm
> sticks out in front of the Horizontal Stab.
>
> It seems like a longer version of the HEIM 3614M bearing
> would be the best choice to solve this but I can't find one
> (or an equivelant if there is one). I'm guessing 3-4
> rotations into the bearing is not enough, is it?
>
> Thanks,
> Rick
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | when problems are problems, and when they're not |
Just another mechanical (automotive) engineer & builder checking in here.
Bill's comments below about mechanical engineering are right on the money.
The anal retentive engineer in me has caused me to do things like calculate
the load on the wing main spars, measure the parts, create CAD models and
run hand calculations and FEA analysis on them to see if there is any
difference in stress concentration if holes in the spar are countersunk
slightly too deep. Stupid, but I had to do it to shut up that little
bastard engineer in my head.
When designing cars we base all of our designs on what is working in the
real world. Such and such part is working on 800,000 cars right now with no
warranty issues. If new designs don't exceed the stress levels of those
parts (and are made of the same material and run in a similar application)
then the new design will live. Same logic applies to RV's - thousands are
in the air and not falling apart, and it's safe to assume that not all have
been built to the highest level of craftsmanship. Aluminum aircraft design
is pretty forgiving when it comes to a few bad rivets or edges that weren't
perfectly deburred. Almost all of our planes will far exceed the level of
craftsmanship that comes of out any factory.
Anyway - I tell you what I tell myself: It's a proven design, build it to
the plans (when the plans are right), do good work but don't kick yourself
in the head if one rivet is over-driven by .001", and everything will be
fine.
Brett Morawski
Toledo, OH
RV-8A, wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill Dube
Subject: Re: RV-List: when problems are problems, and when they're not
>
>
>Can anyone recommend a book on aircraft structural engineering for
>people whose eyes glaze over when they see greek letters in equations? I
>don't mean an "acceptable repair methods" kind of thing: I'd really like
>to be able to visualize the stresses in the airframe, so I can
>understand why Van designed it the way he did.
Marks' Mechanical Engineers' Handbook (McGraw-Hill)
Older editions of Marks' are better than newer editions, in my
opinion.
May 12, 2004 - May 25, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ph