RV-Archive.digest.vol-pn
July 14, 2004 - July 21, 2004
> has to send either the money or goods on faith. I would not have expected
this
> from a fellow RV'r.
> Mark Phipps
>
> Konrad Werner wrote:
>
> Dear Mark,
>
> Sorry to hear that some RV'er is trying to not pay you for parts sent on
good faith.
> What is the amount he owes you? Does anybody in the list know this guy?
>
> Konrad
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mark phipps
> Subject: RV-List: Dont trust this RV6 owner
>
>
> Listers, Watch out for RV6 owner and RV10 builder Steve Dinieri of New
York. He
> came on the list 3 months ago looking for a rudder for his six. I agreed
to sell
> him an extra I had and made the mistake of sending it to him before I was
> paid. Guess what, 3 months later and no money, says he is too busy. My
mistake
> evidently. If you deal with this person or know him, make sure you get
paid first.
>
> Mark Phipps, N242RP, RV6A, Almost Flying
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Anyone out there order a XCOM 760? If so, what's the latest from them?
According to the timeline on their web site, they should have theoretically been
able to send some out by now.
If and when you get one in, please let me know.
Thanks,
Lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tedi" <f.t(at)wp.pl> |
Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs...
As a total newbee I am asking for help/info:
Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by Van's?
What is the estimated % of parts that man has to or should buy from producer
I live in Poland - so I am interrested in aviability of kits or some parts
in Europe. Is there someone from Czech Republic?
Best regards
Tadeusz Forgacz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Don't trust this RV-6 Owner |
Ralph, I bought one of your sunshade kits for my RV-9A over one year ago but
never installed it for some reason. I finally put it in the plane last week
and after using it I suggest you add the following statement to your
installation directions:
"Take the sunshade out of the box and install it IMMEDIATELY. Don't wait."
I can't believe I've been flying for a year in Arizona without the shade I
could have had. Great product, fits well and doesn't interfere with my
Lightspeed headsets.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
> > This information fits into my situation also. For the last 8 years I
have
> > been manufacturing and selling the Koger SunShade
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
Jerry is right, we should not do anything that could hurt anyone, don't want to
stoop to that level. Donald did post Steve Dinieri's e mail address though and
I sent him an E mail this morning. Maybe Donalds right and numerous mailings
from listers could at least let him know this behaviour has consequences.
Mark Phipps
Jerry Springer wrote:
Donald Mei wrote:
>
>All,
>The trust among list members is one of the things that makes us a community. I've
sold stuff on the list for less than I could have goten on the "open market"
because it was no hassle. No ebay, no paypal, just ship the item and feel good
knowing that my item is crossing a check on its way to me somewhere in the
good old USPS.
>
>So, we have a rat among us who has screwed Mark Phipps. Well, we should let him
know that we all know. We shold also let him know that he is not welcome at
any RV type events. I for one will take great pleasure in telling him this to
his face if I ever recognize his N number at an event.
>
>The Oswego EAA Chapter has a big RV fly in. Is he a member of that chapter??
>
>I think a good start is for all of us to send a nice personal (non-hostile, non-threatening)
email to mister "sticky fingers" Dinieri.
>
>His email address is:
>
>capsteve(at)adelphia.net
>
>If that doesn't help get mister Phipps his rudder back, (the following is said
tongue in cheek) we should go get it back. If mr Phipps has not been paid, he
still owns the rudder. I think Oshkosh would be a nice place to very carefullyremove
the rudder if Mr. Dinieri makes the trip. We need to be careful not to
damage the aircraft, since our intent is to only get Mr Phipps back his rightfully
owned property.
>
>
While I sympathize with anyone "getting screwed" I don't think the above
is funny even tongue in cheek Don. While most of you know that I
replaced the rudder on my RV-6 with an RV-7 rudder and stabilizer some
of you may not know why. Last year at Van's homecoming
flyin someone severely damaged the rudder on my RV-6. I of course being
the great safe flight instructor jumped in my airplane and took off.
(very important lesson #1 ALWAYS DO A WALK AROUND AND PRE-FLIGHT)climb
was fine but when I leveled out I knew I had a problem
the airplane went into a left roll and it took a lot of rudder and
aileron to fly straight. When I landed I found the trailing edge of the
rudder was
pushed over about two inches and the skin was torn where it had been
hit. Of course no one said a word to me, no notes, nothing. This is one
of those
situation that if I had crashed no one would have known why or
understood. I can see it now, he probably had a medical problem, this
seems to be
a catch all for any unexplained crashes. I post this for a couple
reasons. #1 don't be stupid like I was and jump in your airplane with
out at least a quick
walk around. #2 Please if you damage someones airplane at least leave a
note or try to notify someone. While I don't like my airplane damaged I
understand
accidents can happen where damage can occur. I certainly would have a
lot more respect for someone that came to me and admitted they did some
damage.
Jerry (Flying my RV-6 15 years tomorrow, first flight July 14, 1989)
Springer
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bertrv6(at)highstream.net |
| Subject: | Oil door question |
Hi:
I am ready to install the cowling door. I want to use the flush latch..
How I do to make the cover fit covering the hinge. Do I have to use a shimm
to lower hinge at the top. If some one has pictures of this modification
would be appreciated..
Thanks
Bert
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re:Don't trust this RV-6 Owner |
Bless you Ralph if this thing will fit in a -4! Thank you for remembering your
tandem bro's!
This information fits into my situation also. For the last 8 years I have
been manufacturing and selling the Koger SunShade and have always shipped
the same or next day and have been telling them, just put a check in the
mail. The RV people have been outstanding and I have not lost a cent with
anyone. I sell a good number of shades to people that have other types of
planes and many of these people do not play by the same rules that the RV
people do. I have been beat out of a couple of shades to an out of the
country aircraft manufacture. I have had to send bills and ask others in
their type of aircraft groups for help to get paid for my shades. I now have
on the books Peter Hebert DMD from Stowe, VT that I special made a shade for
his Lancair Legacy N23PH. Thanks to the list for the gov information, it
shows that he just got his N number 6/03/04. He must be very busy for he has
not returned a couple of account due and e-mail notices for payment. When a
person states that they will put the check in the mail and don't it does
make us wonder if our method of doing business is correct. For over 20 years
I have been RV ing and it goes back to Van for his honest dealings and his
outstanding plane designs.
Ralph Koger
ALSO: I have developed a 46" long sunshade for the RV-8 or any tandem type
canopy, and will be showing it at Oshkosh. See it at Cleaveland Tool.
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark phipps"
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Don't trust this RV-6 Owner
>
> Thanks for the info Alan.
>
> Mark Phipps
>
> Alan McKeen wrote:
>
> From Yahoo people search. I do not know him but there are several very
nice RV plane and builders in the Buffalo NY area. They probably know who he
is and what he is up to.
>
> Steven Dinieri
> 1202 Main St
> Niagara Falls, NY
>
> (716) 285-8935
>
>
> rom: mark phipps
>
> Subject: Re: Dont trust this RV6 owner
>
>
> Hi Conrad, Good to hear from you. He owes $200. I also was hoping someone
on the
> list knows this person. Sadly in these cases one of the two parties
involved
> has to send either the money or goods on faith. I would not have expected
this
> from a fellow RV'r.
> Mark Phipps
>
> Konrad Werner wrote:
>
> Dear Mark,
>
> Sorry to hear that some RV'er is trying to not pay you for parts sent on
good faith.
> What is the amount he owes you? Does anybody in the list know this guy?
>
> Konrad
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: mark phipps
> Subject: RV-List: Dont trust this RV6 owner
>
>
> Listers, Watch out for RV6 owner and RV10 builder Steve Dinieri of New
York. He
> came on the list 3 months ago looking for a rudder for his six. I agreed
to sell
> him an extra I had and made the mistake of sending it to him before I was
> paid. Guess what, 3 months later and no money, says he is too busy. My
mistake
> evidently. If you deal with this person or know him, make sure you get
paid first.
>
> Mark Phipps, N242RP, RV6A, Almost Flying
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bertrv6(at)highstream.net |
| Subject: | Ailerons Tavel... |
Hi:
I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only thing, is
that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some resistance at
the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the stick
moves easily..
I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is absolutely
not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one finger....
Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this?
Thanks
Bert
rv6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
| Subject: | How Much Wire - end to end |
I don't expect any precise answers -- But does anyone have a list of roughly
how much wire of each gauge I should buy to wire my 7 end to end. It will
be all electric, autopilot lights and a modest IFR panel. I'm really only
looking for something in the ballpark on this because I don't know where to
start. Any help at all is better than what I have now. Thanks....
Kathleen
www.rv7.us
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
Let me know what you find, mine does the same thing. 150 hours now, flies
great.
>
>
> Hi:
>
> I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only
> thing, is
> that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some resistance at
>the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the stick
>moves easily..
>
> I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is
> absolutely
>not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one finger....
>
> Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bert
>
>
>rv6a
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Don't trust> Now tandem sunshade |
In a message dated 7/14/04 8:32:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rhkoger(at)fbx.com
writes:
> ALSO: I have developed a 46" long sunshade for the RV-8 or any tandem type
>
Ralph I have a -4 Do you have anything online or could you e-mail a
picture.
No OshKosh this year :(
Thanks
Sal Capra
Lakeland, FL
My Home Page
http://hometown.aol.com/cbrxxdrv/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
When the ailerons are in the full down position the bellcrank/pushrod is
just over-center. This can be felt on the aileron side of the system
since it is pushing against this slight over-center condition. The stick
is pulling on the bellcrank and is not effected by the over-center
condition.
Gary
bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:
>
>
> Hi:
>
> I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only thing, is
> that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some resistance at
> the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the stick
> moves easily..
>
> I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is absolutely
> not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one finger....
>
> Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this?
>
> Thanks
>
> Bert
>
>
> rv6a
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Walker" <ron(at)walker.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
Just have to toss out an obvious suggestion ... mine does the same thing ..
then I realized that the binding/resistance was due to the Classic Aero seat
cushions I have installed. With them removed, no resistance what so ever.
Ron
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons Tavel...
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Let me know what you find, mine does the same thing. 150 hours now, flies
> great.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only
> > thing, is
> > that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some
resistance at
> >the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the
stick
> >moves easily..
> >
> > I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is
> > absolutely
> >not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one
finger....
> >
> > Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bert
> >
> >
> >rv6a
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
when I put an email out for rudders I bought 4 of them and everyone was
paid except mark. I wanted it shipped cod but when it arrived and I
spoke to him I asked right away if he could accept paypal. No big deal
I'll send a p.o. into the office and have them send a check(out of my
business). Apparently she lost his address and let it set. I have been
traveling out of town for the past 5 weeks to put a family member to
rest and help close an estate.
I spoke to mark and asked him to be patient and I'll take care of him
when I get back to my office. I do apologize about the delay and I never
intended to defraud anyone at anytime. I'm still on the road and can
only check email once a week, but I called my office and had a salesman
ups next day letter marks money plus 20 for his trouble. The tracking
number for all interested parties is 1z5y31131340808111
Jerry is right, we should not do anything that could hurt anyone, don't
want to stoop to that level. Donald did post Steve Dinieri's e mail
address though and I sent him an E mail this morning. Maybe Donalds
right and numerous mailings from listers could at least let him know
this behaviour has consequences.
Mark Phipps
Jerry Springer wrote:
Donald Mei wrote:
>
>All,
>The trust among list members is one of the things that makes us a
community. I've sold stuff on the list for less than I could have goten
on the "open market" because it was no hassle. No ebay, no paypal, just
ship the item and feel good knowing that my item is crossing a check on
its way to me somewhere in the good old USPS.
>
>So, we have a rat among us who has screwed Mark Phipps. Well, we should
let him know that we all know. We shold also let him know that he is not
welcome at any RV type events. I for one will take great pleasure in
telling him this to his face if I ever recognize his N number at an
event.
>
>The Oswego EAA Chapter has a big RV fly in. Is he a member of that
chapter??
>
>I think a good start is for all of us to send a nice personal
(non-hostile, non-threatening) email to mister "sticky fingers" Dinieri.
>
>His email address is:
>
>capsteve(at)adelphia.net
>
>If that doesn't help get mister Phipps his rudder back, (the following
is said tongue in cheek) we should go get it back. If mr Phipps has not
been paid, he still owns the rudder. I think Oshkosh would be a nice
place to very carefullyremove the rudder if Mr. Dinieri makes the trip.
We need to be careful not to damage the aircraft, since our intent is to
only get Mr Phipps back his rightfully owned property.
>
>
While I sympathize with anyone "getting screwed" I don't think the above
is funny even tongue in cheek Don. While most of you know that I
replaced the rudder on my RV-6 with an RV-7 rudder and stabilizer some
of you may not know why. Last year at Van's homecoming
flyin someone severely damaged the rudder on my RV-6. I of course being
the great safe flight instructor jumped in my airplane and took off.
(very important lesson #1 ALWAYS DO A WALK AROUND AND PRE-FLIGHT)climb
was fine but when I leveled out I knew I had a problem
the airplane went into a left roll and it took a lot of rudder and
aileron to fly straight. When I landed I found the trailing edge of the
rudder was
pushed over about two inches and the skin was torn where it had been
hit. Of course no one said a word to me, no notes, nothing. This is one
of those
situation that if I had crashed no one would have known why or
understood. I can see it now, he probably had a medical problem, this
seems to be
a catch all for any unexplained crashes. I post this for a couple
reasons. #1 don't be stupid like I was and jump in your airplane with
out at least a quick
walk around. #2 Please if you damage someones airplane at least leave a
note or try to notify someone. While I don't like my airplane damaged I
understand
accidents can happen where damage can occur. I certainly would have a
lot more respect for someone that came to me and admitted they did some
damage.
Jerry (Flying my RV-6 15 years tomorrow, first flight July 14, 1989)
Springer
---------------------------------
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
Ah!!! The power of social pressure.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
Subject: RE: RV-List: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy
when I put an email out for rudders I bought 4 of them and everyone was
paid except mark. I wanted it shipped cod but when it arrived and I
spoke to him I asked right away if he could accept paypal. No big deal
I'll send a p.o. into the office and have them send a check(out of my
business). Apparently she lost his address and let it set. I have been
traveling out of town for the past 5 weeks to put a family member to
rest and help close an estate.
I spoke to mark and asked him to be patient and I'll take care of him
when I get back to my office. I do apologize about the delay and I never
intended to defraud anyone at anytime. I'm still on the road and can
only check email once a week, but I called my office and had a salesman
ups next day letter marks money plus 20 for his trouble. The tracking
number for all interested parties is 1z5y31131340808111
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
Or maybe the danger of jumping to conclusions.
Terry
Ah!!! The power of social pressure.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven DiNieri
Subject: RE: RV-List: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy
when I put an email out for rudders I bought 4 of them and everyone was
paid except mark. I wanted it shipped cod but when it arrived and I
spoke to him I asked right away if he could accept paypal. No big deal
I'll send a p.o. into the office and have them send a check(out of my
business). Apparently she lost his address and let it set. I have been
traveling out of town for the past 5 weeks to put a family member to
rest and help close an estate.
I spoke to mark and asked him to be patient and I'll take care of him
when I get back to my office. I do apologize about the delay and I never
intended to defraud anyone at anytime. I'm still on the road and can
only check email once a week, but I called my office and had a salesman
ups next day letter marks money plus 20 for his trouble. The tracking
number for all interested parties is 1z5y31131340808111
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with the "stewart
warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the job. I don't
know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at Van's didn't know much
about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to replace once they start flying
and figure out it's inadequate or am I thinking of a different brand?
There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this engine but
Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with new oil coolers.
I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit from somewhere
else if one of these works)?
thanks,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil |
cooler
Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is using
in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on the
bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched
from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me out
of the larger cooler.
>Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with the
>"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the
>job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at Van's
>didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to
>replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I
>thinking of a different brand?
>
>There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this
>engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with new
>oil coolers.
>
>I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit
>from somewhere else if one of these works)?
>
>thanks,
>lucky
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Andy Karmy <andy(at)karmy.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil door question |
Here are some pictures of how I did it.
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/Cowl/index.htm
- Andy Karmy
andy(at)karmy.com
On Jul 14, 2004, at 7:38 AM, bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:
>
>
> Hi:
>
> I am ready to install the cowling door. I want to use the flush
> latch..
>
> How I do to make the cover fit covering the hinge. Do I have to use
> a shimm
> to lower hinge at the top. If some one has pictures of this
> modification
> would be appreciated..
>
>
> Thanks
>
>
> Bert
>
> rv6a
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why?
lucky
In a message dated 7/14/2004 5:43:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes:
cooler
Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is using
in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on the
bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched
from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me out
of the larger cooler.
>Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with the
>"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the
>job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at Van's
>didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to
>replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I
>thinking of a different brand?
>
>There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this
>engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with new
>oil coolers.
>
>I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit
>from somewhere else if one of these works)?
>
>thanks,
>lucky
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
I am using the Positech for "hot climates" from VAN'S and it's hot
in central Texas. I mounted it on the left side rear baffling and never
see over 190 degrees in hard climb. Runs 175 to 185 at 85% cruise down
low with OAT at 95 degrees. I did check gauge and it is accurate. RV6
with 180 HP XP-360. I have seen hot oil problems cured in a couple of
cases by moving cooler to baffling from firewall.
Good Luck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski
cooler
Subject: Re: RV-List: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil
cooler
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> cooler
Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is
using
in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on
the
bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched
from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me
out
of the larger cooler.
>Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with
the
>"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the
>job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at
Van's
>didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to
>replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I
>thinking of a different brand?
>
>There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this
>engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with
new
>oil coolers.
>
>I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit
>from somewhere else if one of these works)?
>
>thanks,
>lucky
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
The 200hp angle-valve IO-360-A1B6 engine tends to see higher oil temps, or
at least higher oil temp tendencies than the parallel valve -360 models. I
have no good explanation for that, it's just my experience with several
different 200hp IO-360s in different planes.
So when somebody says "such and such works fine on my O-360 or XP-360," it's
really an apples and oranges comparison (in my opinion).
I had poor experience with the 7-row Aero Classics oil cooler that Van's
shipped me with the 200hp IO-360 FWF kit. I believe they may have changed
what they're shipping with the FWF kit now, but I didn't get enough cooling
out of that Aero Classics model.
I switched to the Stewart Warner 8406R 6-plate oil cooler, which has the
same footprint as the smaller Aero Classics, and despite its "small" size,
it seems to be so much more efficient. Just a direct swapout resulted in an
average of 5% lower oil temps. It runs too cool in moderate climates if
anything. In hot climates it seems to do the job pretty well.
I urge you to read my account of the oil cooler swap-out here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20040519.html
As of today, I won't buy anything but Stewart Warner oil coolers going
forward if I have an option. In my opinion it's worth the higher price for
a more efficient, better designed oil cooler -- or at least one that works
better in my installation.
If I were doing it over again, I might consider a larger Stewart Warner oil
cooler, but it might be overkill. When I was flying in the "cold" northeast
the other day, my oil temp wouldn't go above 174F when the OAT at altitude
was down in the 30s and 40s F. In hot climates it will climb up to 215F on
prolonged climbs, but it does settle back down into the 190s shortly after
levelling off and picking up speed. I think this size and efficiency is a
good compromise for the average climate around here (SoCal).
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler
>
>
> I am using the Positech for "hot climates" from VAN'S and it's hot
> in central Texas. I mounted it on the left side rear baffling and never
> see over 190 degrees in hard climb. Runs 175 to 185 at 85% cruise down
> low with OAT at 95 degrees. I did check gauge and it is accurate. RV6
> with 180 HP XP-360. I have seen hot oil problems cured in a couple of
> cases by moving cooler to baffling from firewall.
> Good Luck
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Bilinski
> cooler
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil
> cooler
>
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> cooler
>
> Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is
> using
> in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on
> the
> bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched
> from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me
> out
> of the larger cooler.
>
>
> >Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with
> the
> >"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the
> >job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at
> Van's
> >didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to
> >replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I
> >thinking of a different brand?
> >
> >There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this
> >engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with
> new
> >oil coolers.
> >
> >I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit
>
> >from somewhere else if one of these works)?
> >
> >thanks,
> >lucky
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
> =
> =
> =
> =
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
Lucky,
How timely for me!
I have been flying my RV-7A with the 200 HP IO-360-C1E6 (like A1B6 now) for
only a week in the hot summer in Indiana. The oil reaches 230 deg. F. in any
kind of climb or even level flight at 24 inches/ 2400 RPM with OAT at 85 deg.
We are 850 ft. MSL here. I feel like I'm having to baby the engine to keep
the oil temp down. The cyl. heads are OK -- never over 400 deg.
The engine is not broken in yet. I have a firewall mounted 13 row cooler
from Niagara Air Parts -- their part no. 20006A -- as in Greg Hales RV-8.
(Search for Greg Hale using your browser for a picture.) My cooler sits at about
a
45 degree angle to the firewall making the airflow into it not quite direct
into the fins. I am feeding an aluminum shroud that I fabricated (which is less
than perfect) with 4" scat, but several people have looked at it and most say
that it should work.
I just ordered the 11 row 10611R Stewart Warner cooler from Pacific Oil
Coolers, Inc. which is the same size as the 20006A. It will be a week before it
gets here from LA, but I'll post the results then.
I really like having the oil cooler on the firewall as opposed to the baffle
from a vibration standpoint -- even if I have to go to 5 inch scat!
I have considered lowering the exit scoop an inch because of the poor airflow
of the cluttered exit area with the 7A's nosegear tubing, and all kinds of
other things, blocking the exit area, but decided to try the SW cooler first.
I would be very glad to hear from others having this problem and what they
did about it. There's no use having 200 HP if you can't use it.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying -- 8 hrs.)
In a message dated 7/14/04 5:19:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RV8ter(at)aol.com writes:
Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why?
lucky
In a message dated 7/14/04 5:19:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RV8ter(at)aol.com writes:
Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why?
lucky
In a message dated 7/14/04 5:19:53 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
RV8ter(at)aol.com writes:
>
>
> Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why?
>
> lucky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob 1" <rv3a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
> Or maybe the danger of jumping to conclusions.
> Terry
> Ah!!! The power of social pressure.
>
> Bruce
====================================
Or maybe...
a little of each?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How Much Wire - end to end |
In a message dated 07/14/2004 9:36:30 AM Central Standard Time,
Kathleen(at)rv7.us writes:
Any help at all is better than what I have now.
....and if I may offer no help at all? FWIW I "carefully" calculated my wire
requirements from my complete drawing package, began wiring and promptly
doubled my original purchase of 22 and 18 ga. And STILL had to order more
22....... aaarrrgghhh!!!!!
Best of luck & order lots more than you think you'll need!
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | How Much Wire - end to end |
>
> I don't expect any precise answers -- But does anyone have a
> list of roughly how much wire of each gauge I should buy to
> wire my 7 end to end. It will be all electric, autopilot
> lights and a modest IFR panel. I'm really only looking for
> something in the ballpark on this because I don't know where
> to start. Any help at all is better than what I have now. Thanks....
>
> Kathleen
> www.rv7.us
Kathleen, it will surprise you how much wire it takes. I seem to recall
going through many hundreds of feet of 22 gauge alone on building up the
panel harness (full IFR). Best is to draw a sketch of the plane, and
add where things go such as lights, etc. Then estimate the length from
the panel, for example, to the device. Make a table for the wire, and
add up the length estimates of the different gauges. It is a lot
further from the panel to the wingtips than one thinks, also.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 496 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MMcs139808(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: How Much Wire - end to end |
Its like getting wood for the camp fire, when you think you have enough
double it then add half as much again.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | How Much Wire - end to end |
I'll second Mark's comments and suggest you get a 500' spool of your primary
gauge(s). It makes life a lot easier if you can just rip off a piece longer
than you'll need and trim to length later... and not worry about running
short. It's like clecos - once I realized I could bury myself in clecos for
a couple hundred bucks I quit fighting it and bought a bunch. You can do the
same with wire. Wiring is too tedious and the wire is too cheap, so don't
aggravate yourself by skimping.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> Subject: Re: RV-List: How Much Wire - end to end
>
>
> In a message dated 07/14/2004 9:36:30 AM Central Standard
> Time, Kathleen(at)rv7.us writes:
> Any help at all is better than what I have now.
> ....and if I may offer no help at all?
> FWIW I "carefully"
> calculated my wire requirements from my complete drawing
> package, began wiring and promptly doubled my original
> purchase of 22 and 18 ga. And STILL had to order more
> 22....... aaarrrgghhh!!!!!
>
> Best of luck & order lots more than you think you'll need!
> Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... |
Unless you get a very early set of RV3 or RV4 plans I wouldnt expect enough
information to scratch build. The plans are really much more of an assembly
manual and do not detail the size and shape of every part of the airplane.
If you want to scratch build I suggest the Sonex. It is smaller and slower,
but the plans are first rate and definatly tunued to the scratch builder.
You can just paint it like an RV9 :)
Evan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedi" <f.t(at)wp.pl>
Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200
(\214rodkowoeuropejs...
>
>
> As a total newbee I am asking for help/info:
>
> Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by Van's?
> What is the estimated % of parts that man has to or should buy from
producer
>
>
> I live in Poland - so I am interrested in aviability of kits or some parts
> in Europe. Is there someone from Czech Republic?
>
> Best regards
> Tadeusz Forgacz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV-List: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil
cooler
The 200hp angle-valve IO-360-A1B6 engine tends to see higher oil temps,
or
at least higher oil temp tendencies than the parallel valve -360 models.
I
have no good explanation for that, it's just my experience with several
different 200hp IO-360s in different planes.
Dan,
One difference (I believe) is that the angle valve engine has nozzles
which spray oil on the underside of the pistons to enhance cooling.
This, of course puts more BTUs into the oil to be removed by the cooler.
Bart at Aerosport told me that these could also be installed on the
parallal valve engine during the build.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil cooler |
My oil temps were higher than I liked initially and I changed out the "old"
style Positech for a Niagra and saw some improvement, but not enough. Then
I added a "cool collar" around the oil filter and a shroud to carry cool air
to it and saw some minor improvement. Later, I enlarged the hole in my
baffles feeding the cooler and that did make a meaningful difference. My
take is that getting enough air to the cooler is very important. If you
have an "old" Positech, change it out - the factory will send you the new
style for free. Otherwise, do whatever it takes to increase the airflow to
your cooler.
Finally, there is the engine break-in period. Being ancient technology,
these engines are somewhat self-machining, and will have lower oil
temperatures when they are fully broken in than for the first 50 or even 100
hours.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
One last message on this, Thanks to everyone for assisting in this endeavour. There
well may have been another side to this story, but I wasn't privy to it.
Bottom line is that phone calls, and E mails from me were not being responded
to and I had little expectation of that changing. The collective voice of this
group and willingness to help others is much appreciated.
Mark Phipps
Bob 1 wrote:
> Or maybe the danger of jumping to conclusions.
> Terry
> Ah!!! The power of social pressure.
>
> Bruce
====================================
Or maybe...
a little of each?
Bob
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Davis" <rvpilot(at)access4less.net> |
| Subject: | 200 HP oil coolers |
Lucky,
How timely for me!
I have been flying my RV-7A with the 200 HP IO-360-C1E6 (like A1B6 now) for
only a week in the hot summer in Indiana. The oil reaches 230 deg. F. in any
kind of climb or even level flight at 24 inches/ 2400 RPM with OAT at 85 deg.
We are 850 ft. MSL here. I feel like I'm having to baby the engine to keep
the oil temp down. The cyl. heads are OK -- never over 400 deg.
______________________________________________________________________
For what it's worth, on my IO-360 A1B6 powered RV-8, I have been using 2 Seetrab
(Sp ?) coolers piped in series. Never had an airplane before where the oil temp.stayed
so perfect under all conditions. It runs 190 to 193 winter or summer,
I have seen 196 after a long climb.
Seetrabs are made in Sweeden I believe and are inexpensive @ around $80 at the
time.
The reason for the higher oil heat load on this engine is that the piston bottoms
are partially cooled by oil jets ( this probably also accounts for the typically
higher oil consumption than the 0-360 or 0-320). One Seetrab is plenty
for the other engines. My coolers are bolted to the engine mount and enclosed
in a fiberglass shroud fed by a 3" duct from the right rear baffle
Bill RV-8 N48WD Tiger-Kat
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Initial electrical set up |
Hi everybody,
I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no experience
at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans along with the CBs,
switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
I want to know how does one mount the bus bar and where . Do you bolt it to the
back of the instrument panel and then the CB's to that? Where is the best
place for the starter and battery relays and contactors to be located?
Any pictures or advice will help?
Shirley Harding RV6 QB
Perth
WA
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
>experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
>along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses and
my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
flyers.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Part #A906 & A907-L wings alierons |
Sportpilot
I didn't see a response to this question yet. The hardware that you are
looking for is in Bag 1926 titled Aileron Hwr. It is listed in the
supplemental sheets that list rivets, fittings, etc. Hope this helps. Also
check Bag 1928 for 2 ea MS21083-N3 (thin) locking nuts. They were only shown
on Dwg 13, Zone 10B, not in the inventory list for that bag. Van's supplied
them without question when I pointed out the omission.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A 90095
Fuselage/Finish
----- Original Message -----
From: "sportpilot" <sportpilot(at)moneypit.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Part #A906 & A907-L wings alierons
>
>
> Forgot to say its an RV-9A left wing
>
> Subject: RV-List: Part #A906 & A907-L wings alierons
>
>
> >
> >
> > ok, now I have a question, my plans are dated 11/15/99
> > kinda old, but on my left wing brackets A906 & A907-L
> > shows bolts holding them to the alieron and I don't
> > see
> > any that are that small, anyone know what bag those
> > are suppose to be in.. ? do those rivet in ? they show
> > bolts and washer with nuts.. Danny..
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Shirley,
You can get just the documentation from Van's. That will get you a good
start. The breakers are spaced 1 inch apart and the buss bar has holes on 1 inch
centers that join one side of all the breakers. In other words drill holes in
a line in the panel one inch apart, and mount the breakers in those holes,
then attach the buss bar between the breakers.
I think you can save money if you shop carefully. The Vans wiring kit seems
too expensive to me. It would help if you have some very heavy duty crimpers
to crimp the heavy starter and battery wires -- 4 ga., I think. The kit from
Vans has lots of extra heavy gauge wires already made up. Anyone who has used
their wiring kit will have some extra ones. Mine are spoken for!
On the RV-7, the battery is mounted to the forward side of the firewall, and
the master and starter relays are mounted to the battery tray.
Hope this helps,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying -- 8 hours)
In a message dated 7/14/04 8:51:07 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com writes:
>
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
> experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans along
with
> the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> I want to know how does one mount the bus bar and where . Do you bolt it to
> the back of the instrument panel and then the CB's to that? Where is the
> best place for the starter and battery relays and contactors to be located?
>
> Any pictures or advice will help?
>
> Shirley Harding RV6 QB
>
> Perth
> WA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
Steven,
My compliments for standing up for yourself in this mob. Just one question:
Why do you need 4 rudders?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying -- 8 hours)
In a message dated 7/14/04 1:51:04 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
capsteve(at)adelphia.net writes:
>
>
>
> when I put an email out for rudders I bought 4 of them and everyone was
> paid except mark. I wanted it shipped cod but when it arrived and I
> spoke to him I asked right away if he could accept paypal. No big deal
> I'll send a p.o. into the office and have them send a check(out of my
> business). Apparently she lost his address and let it set. I have been
> traveling out of town for the past 5 weeks to put a family member to
> rest and help close an estate.
> I spoke to mark and asked him to be patient and I'll take care of him
> when I get back to my office. I do apologize about the delay and I never
> intended to defraud anyone at anytime. I'm still on the road and can
> only check email once a week, but I called my office and had a salesman
> ups next day letter marks money plus 20 for his trouble. The tracking
> number for all interested parties is 1z5y31131340808111
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
advise against using them.
It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
Walmart for fuses....?
Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses and
>my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
>and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
>flyers.
>
>
>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
Rob Prior wrote:
>I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch the
>(alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the
>"let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies"
>bandwagon.
>
>
>
I hardly call waiting 6 weeks impatient. I could be wrong but I don't
believe the original poster was aware of any family emergencies. If a
girl from Siberia can send me 3 emails a week trying to scam me out of
some money, someone living in the US with the means to build an RV can
respond to email inquires about money due in less than 6 weeks.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
The Klixon 7277-2 CB's are only 9/16" wide and can be mounted on 5/8"
centers if you are tight on room. CB's cost more but some folks really like
them. Don't forget that there is also a CB style that has a rocker or
toggle switch instead of a plunger and can double up as a switch/CB combo.
There are some large differences in the physical size (and cost) of both
CB's and switches.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
> You can get just the documentation from Van's. That will get you a good
> start. The breakers are spaced 1 inch apart and the buss bar has holes on
1 inch
> centers that join one side of all the breakers.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
> I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
> fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
> expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
> advise against using them.
Although I don't advise against using CBs, I don't push them, either. They
cost too darned much, are mechanical and could fail from internal corrosion,
take up too much room, etc. Bob has been working on systems for a very long
time and knows that a failure is very rare. I've been flying my own
airplanes since 1986 and have had electrical failures that prompted a CB to
pop, or fuse to fail, maybe 5 times. Once when the voltage regulator failed
and and forced the OV protection to pop a breaker. A couple were caused by
a broken wire to the landing lights. The other two were when I had too
small a fuse on Scooter's starter contactor. That's it in 18 years of
aircraft ownership. When I built Scooter, I went with Bob's advice, and my
own experiences, and installed fuses. I still don't regret my decision and
will install fuses in my newest project, a -7A.
> It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
> Walmart for fuses....?
>
I know we bash folks for buying stuff at the automotive chain stores and
even Walmart; but, good quality blade fuses can be bought about anywhere.
Well, maybe some don't consider Buss fuses as good quality; but, I've used
that brand almost all my life. Be careful about what you say about Walmart.
It's where most of us shop, these days. Good quality items can be bought
there, if one is careful to only buy good quality. Forget such things as
wire terminal ends, etc. Get those from aircraft suppliers.
I think the fuses sold in these stores are fast blow fuses. I'd rather not
have fast blows in some locations; but, it's not all bad having them,
either. I didn't like having the fuse blow at start up of the engine; but,
I'd really like them for a short in a radio wire, etc. If you want slow
blow fuses, you have to get them elsewhere.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317
EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
I agree with Hal on this one. I recommend you learn the Bob Nuckoll's
method of doing electrical things in your plane.
Start by buying his manual/book. It can be found on his web site called
Aeroelectric. You will use a lot of the stuff you get from Vans in the
electric kit and some you won't use. It will save you a lot of time but not
money. With Nuckoll's you will use fused buss boxes rather than building
your own buss bars. (It sure looks safer to me with fewer things to
possible contact and cause a short). Bob's system uses fuses rather than
circuit breakers. His reasoning for this is explained quite nicely in his
book. (Not enough space/time here to do it) There is also the matronics
aeroelectric-list that you can sign up for and get daily just like the
RV-List. The archives hold lots of electrical info that is priceless. Bob
Nuckolls is a regular participate on the Aeroelectric-List and answers
hundreds of questions each week/month. He has answered some questions
already 5 times. I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
using Bob's system. There are good reasons for not using circuit breakers
and folks just can't out argue Bob on this point -- or at least I have not
seen anyone do it in three years. It takes some time to get to know how the
Vans electric system works and past users of it want to use it because they
understand it. It takes time to learn a new way and that brings along with
it new risk. I can understand why some will advise using Vans electrical
methods completely including the circuit breakers. But, I will say this --
if you invest the time to understand both methods, you will understand why
Hal and I both endorse the Nuckoll's method of electrical work which uses
fuses rather than circuit breakers. Ask yourself this, how many circuit
breakers do you have than you can reset in you modern automobile? How many
fuses? Think about it. Is that just a coincidence?
Best wishes. Hope this helps you build a safer, more reliable plane from an
electrical stand point anyway.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal / Carol Kempthorne" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
> At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> >
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
> >experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
> >along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
and
> my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
> and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
> flyers.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
>using Bob's system.
>
And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying
aircraft that do not use the Bob K method
of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems
whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches
has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown
in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style
electrical systems and have not been a problem.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: don't trust this RV 6 guy |
Well, halt the bandwagon and ready the rope!
I rented a house for 7 years and not once did the landlord have to dun me for late
rent. During that seven years as a tenant, I too had family emergencies.
Later in life, when I chose to be a landlord for a time, almost everybody I rented
an apartment to had some story, some excuse for eventually being late with
the rent. Sure, I screened people and demanded references. My tenants included
the son of the city attorney, a hotel manager, even an IRS agent. The stories
they could tell! That was then and this is now. I've done business with
people who are on this list. And the fact is, in most cases, you either have
to send goods or send payment as an article of faith. But RV'ers are for the
most part, a special breed. Faith comes easier. But as a buyer or as a seller,
the timely receipt of the product or the payment is also an article of faith.
"Family emergencies" need not apply............or linger on interminably week
after week.
So you actually bought that story when Johnny Fairplay tearfully told the tribe
his grandmother died?
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
I hope all of you listers who were so happy to jump on the "let's lynch the
(alledged) rip-off artist" bandwagon are just as quick to jump on the
"let's lynch the impatient guy who has no sympathy for family emergencies"
bandwagon.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Mount your CB's on one inch centers in the panel and then mount the buss bar
to the CB's. Drill one inch holes in the buss bar the size of the screws in
the CB's. This also helps hold the CB's from turning. I used Bob's
circuits but opted for CB's instead of fuses.
Wayne
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: [rv_list] RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> I want to know how does one mount the bus bar and where . Do you bolt it
to the back of the instrument panel and then the CB's to that? Where is
the best place for the starter and battery relays and contactors to be
located?
>
> Any pictures or advice will help?
>
> Shirley Harding RV6 QB
>
> Perth
> WA
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stewart warner 'style' vs Positech 200hp oil |
cooler
Had a 7 row Niagara switched to a 10 row AERO-Classics. I saw a good 15
degree drop. I also increased the air flow from 3" to 3.5 inch ducting. The
reason I did this is for 2 reasons. First, to keep the oil in the 180
degree range I had to fly low RPM power settings (2300 RPM) with the 7 row.
Second in slow flight the temps would come up, so when flying into OSH I
dont want to worry about oil temps. The 100 kts arrival speed into OSH on a
90 plus degree day would have caused my oil temp to go up to about 220
maybe even higher. Now with the 10 row cooler on a 95 degree day OAT at
altitude and 100 kts I saw 195 steady on the oil temp.
.
>
>Well, what oil coolers did you switch from and to and why?
>
>lucky
>
>In a message dated 7/14/2004 5:43:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com writes:
>cooler
>
>Dont order the cooler from Vans right now. Ask what everyone else is using
>in hot climates and then just get that. It is always safer to error on the
>bigger side when it comes to oil coolers. I should know I just switched
>from 7 row to a 10 row. I wish the people at Van's had never talked me out
>of the larger cooler.
>
>
> >Quick, I ordered the 200hp IO360 FWF kit already! The kit comes with the
> >"stewart warner style" oil cooler which looks kind of small for the
> >job. I don't know who makes it now. It used to be Niagara. Scott at Van's
> >didn't know much about it. Is it the one that folks keep having to
> >replace once they start flying and figure out it's inadequate or am I
> >thinking of a different brand?
> >
> >There's also "new" 200hp oil cooler from Positech made just for this
> >engine but Scott at Van's didn't know Positech had even come out with new
> >oil coolers.
> >
> >I'm stuck. Which do I really want (no, I don't want to buy a $400 unit
> >from somewhere else if one of these works)?
> >
> >thanks,
> >lucky
> >
> >
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
I think you'll be missing out on a lot of the education fun of your project if you don't read the AeroElectric Connection document available from the website www.aeroelectric.com.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit
on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more
than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical
system
FWIW
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
> I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
> fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
> expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
> advise against using them.
> It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
> Walmart for fuses....?
>
> Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal
> EAA Technical Counselor
>
> Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>
> >Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
and
> >my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
> >and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
> >flyers.
> >
> >
> >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> >RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200 (\214rodkowoeuropejs... |
Tedi, There are many European Builders on Vans Web Links and perhaps one
of them has more connections in your area. Welcome to the RV family!
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tedi" <f.t(at)wp.pl>
Subject: RV-List: Fw: plans Date: ...4 Jul 2004 16:03:58 +0200
(\214rodkowoeuropejs...
>
>
> As a total newbee I am asking for help/info:
>
> Is this possible to build RV8 or RV9 only from plans provided by Van's?
> What is the estimated % of parts that man has to or should buy from
producer
>
>
> I live in Poland - so I am interrested in aviability of kits or some parts
> in Europe. Is there someone from Czech Republic?
>
> Best regards
> Tadeusz Forgacz
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit
>on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more
>than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
>overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
>with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
>and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical
>system
>
>FWIW
>
>Ed
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>
I'm not going to take sides, but if the fuse block is within reach,
replacing a fuse from spares is just as easy. The bonus for ckt
breakers is that you will run out of fuses sooner or later, but can keep
resetting the ckt breaker over and over. This is a good thing if you
have multiple loads on the same fuse/breaker and can modify the load to
'test' what's attached. Remember that the failure may not be
catastrophic and just raises the current load above the trigger point.
Harder to diagnose than a catastrophic failure.
Linn
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
>
>
>
>>
>>I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
>>fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
>>expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
>>advise against using them.
>>It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
>>Walmart for fuses....?
>>
>>Dave Bristol RV6 So Cal
>>EAA Technical Counselor
>>
>>Hal / Carol Kempthorne wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
>>>
>>>
>and
>
>
>>>my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
>>>and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
>>>flyers.
>>>
>>>
>>>K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
>>>RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
>>>PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
> Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system circuit
> on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more
> than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
> overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
> with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
> and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical
> system
The fuse/CB issue is similar to the primer/no primer deal wherein there
will never be a consensus of opinion, at least for many years to come. I
will add that 'Lectric Bob's rational is predicated on the principle
that there is no place for a "critical system" in the electrical
architecture of a modern aircraft. It is a mistake to assume that Bob's
philosophy is limited to merely replacing circuit breakers with fuses.
In order to fully appreciate Bob's system, it is essential to
recalibrate our thinking to the idea that *all* electrical systems are
relegated to "non-critical" status. This means that if a failure of any
type occurs, there are backups that allow the flight to have a happy
conclusion, and trouble shooting is conducted on the ground instead of
in the air.
Yes, this flies in the face of decades of accumulated experience with
certificated and military aircraft, and is difficult to accept by many
pilots. It is interesting to note that the newest aircraft (Cirrus, and
even the new glass-panel Cessnas) are adopting dual bus architectures
similar to what Bob advocates.
Traditional electrical schemes have kept most of us in the air for a
long time, but that doesn't mean they can't be improved with new thinking.
The addition of backups in a complex aircraft means more complexity in
the wiring architecture; however, it also means we have removed the
possibility of an "electrical failure" and the attendant horror stories
we read in the "Never Again" articles.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, guess what kind of wiring system..........)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
My Bellanca came from the factory without any CBs, just old fashioned Glass
fuses. I have had one fail in the last 15 years and I think it was an
original from 1948. The 1948 Cessna 170 used only fuses from the factory.
As Bob says, if a fuse blows, check and fix on the ground.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
> LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>
> >I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
> >using Bob's system.
> >
> And I think that statement is absurd. There are many many safe flying
> aircraft that do not use the Bob K method
> of wiring. These aircraft have been flying for years with no problems
> whatsoever. Mine for example using CB switches
> has never had a problem in 15 years. Most of the airplanes I have flown
> in the last 40 years have not had Bob K style
> electrical systems and have not been a problem.
>
> Jerry
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com> |
Having read the post by Mark Phipps and the associated pile-ons from other
members of the RV list and then Steves reply I just have to add my two
cents to this. A year and a half ago I ground looped my RV6 when landing on
a snow-lined runway. The resulting loop turned the plane into a snow bank
and in the process damaged my right wing outboard leading edge skin, the
wingtip, and various internal ribs.
I contacted Steve and without charge of any kind he gave me a spare wingtip,
some ribs and other parts I needed to make the repair. This was typical of
Steve. He is very giving in sharing the resources he has to help other
builders. While I was building my RV, he was very generous in loaning tools
and other parts I happen to need.
Circumstances occur in peoples lives. Often we are not able to handle all
situations in a timely manner. This happened to me several years ago dealing
with a RV builder out west who owed me money for a service I did for him. He
was tardy in paying and I got upset over it. I chose to handle it off line
and eventually I was paid and came to understand that several circumstances
in this persons life all converged at the same time. Its happened to all
of us. S___ happens.
There will be listers who will have missed Steves reply and may forever
think of him in unkind terms. This is unfortunate.
Fran Malczynski
RV-6 N594EF
Olcott, NY
ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
avionics-list(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | Cabin speaker specs |
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I have
decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation (pre-flight
etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be difficult
to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly -
volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: How Much Wire - end to end |
Kathleen,
Take a look at the article I wrote about a methodology for wiring your
bird, in the Articles section of vansaircraft.net.
http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/wiring/wiring.htm
Then look at the Excel sheet I posted on the rv-7 groups files
section.
(wiringbooksample.xls)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/files/
This should give a good starting point.
You have reached a point in the project where you are writing your own
manual . it takes some planning, and if you plan
Right, it will be easier.
Good luck!
Amit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil door question |
In a message dated 7/14/04 7:38:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
bertrv6(at)highstream.net writes:
<< use a shim to lower hinge at the top >>
Bert: Yes. Sorry, no pictures, but if you shim it, it will work.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
My RV6a, Valentine, was my first built. I heard there was a controversy
about the electrical system. I began to do research.
First, I looked to machines I very am familiar with, cars and
computers. They use fuses.
Second, I looked at catalogs to do something I have much experience with,
value analysis. Fuses give most for least.
Third, I looked to fellow builders, especially those who sounded
knowledgeable. Most used fuses.
Finally, I listened to Bob Nuckolls and bought his book. He knows more
about this stuff than any of us ever will.
FUSES IT IS! Your analysis may vary.
Hal
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Shirly, for a starting point why don't you order Van's wiring diagrams that
are made up for his wiring package. They are available separately and will
answer a lot of your questions. You should also consider buying a copy of Bob
Nuckell's book, The Aeroelectric Connection. His website is
www.aeroelectric.com, e-mail: nuckells(at)aeroelectric.com or 316-685-8617.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final assembly
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
| Subject: | Initial electrical set up |
I can answer the, "Why fuses in automobiles?" question for you. (1) The
average driver would pay no attention to "why" breakers are popping off. (2)
Replacing all boxed fuses in an average auto would cost (cost of
manufacture) nearly $30 and would require different wiring and containment
considerations that would have to be engineered and manufactured.
If you are manufacturing several million cars a year, $30+ per unit is small
percentage, but ultimately, real money. The bean-counters at automotive
corporations have the final say. Breakers would add nothing in terms of
sales advantage, just cost that would actually reduce market advantage.
That folks, straight from the GM marketing masters.
The way I see it, there is no correlation between the aircraft decision and
the automobile decision. But, that's not what is important. What's
important is the extent to which one method adds to aircraft safety
reliability.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LarryRobertHelming
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
-->
I agree with Hal on this one. I recommend you learn the Bob Nuckoll's
method of doing electrical things in your plane.
Start by buying his manual/book. It can be found on his web site called
Aeroelectric. You will use a lot of the stuff you get from Vans in the
electric kit and some you won't use. It will save you a lot of time but not
money. With Nuckoll's you will use fused buss boxes rather than building
your own buss bars. (It sure looks safer to me with fewer things to
possible contact and cause a short). Bob's system uses fuses rather than
circuit breakers. His reasoning for this is explained quite nicely in his
book. (Not enough space/time here to do it) There is also the matronics
aeroelectric-list that you can sign up for and get daily just like the
RV-List. The archives hold lots of electrical info that is priceless. Bob
Nuckolls is a regular participate on the Aeroelectric-List and answers
hundreds of questions each week/month. He has answered some questions
already 5 times. I think you are not building the better/safer plane by not
using Bob's system. There are good reasons for not using circuit breakers
and folks just can't out argue Bob on this point -- or at least I have not
seen anyone do it in three years. It takes some time to get to know how the
Vans electric system works and past users of it want to use it because they
understand it. It takes time to learn a new way and that brings along with
it new risk. I can understand why some will advise using Vans electrical
methods completely including the circuit breakers. But, I will say this --
if you invest the time to understand both methods, you will understand why
Hal and I both endorse the Nuckoll's method of electrical work which uses
fuses rather than circuit breakers. Ask yourself this, how many circuit
breakers do you have than you can reset in you modern automobile? How many
fuses? Think about it. Is that just a coincidence?
Best wishes. Hope this helps you build a safer, more reliable plane from an
electrical stand point anyway.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hal / Carol Kempthorne" <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Initial electrical set up
>
> At 06:49 PM 7/14/2004, you wrote:
> >
> >Hi everybody,
> >
> >I'm just starting to do the electrical side of my RV6 and I have no
> >experience at all in this area. I've bought the copper bus bar from Vans
> >along with the CBs, switches, relays , contactors etc etc .
>
> Send it all back. Use fuses per aeroelectric connection. I used fuses
and
> my buss bar is a brass bolt. I have twenty years of frustration with CBs
> and little with fuses. Leave the CBs to the military and other big buck
> flyers.
>
>
> K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
> RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
> PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob 1" <rv3a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
> After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
operation (pre-flight etc).
>
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
> Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob 1" <rv3a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling door |
>
> Hi:
>
> Some one answered my question, about installing the flush latch on
cowling
> door; and has all the pictures for the installation, by mistake when
trying
> to print them I ereased them ... Please could you send message again with
> your fotos? sorry I do not remember your name..
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Bert
================================
Is this what you're looking for via Andy Karmy?
Bob
QUOTE....
Here are some pictures of how I did it.
http://www.karmy.com/rv9a/pictures/fuselage/Cowl/index.htm
- Andy Karmy
andy(at)karmy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DWENSING(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
In a message dated 7/15/04 1:44:05 PM Eastern Daylight Time, HCRV6(at)aol.com
writes:
> Awhile back someone on the list was offering some grab handles that could
> be
> attached to the slider's roll bars by bolting through the bar. Does anyone
> remember who it was or if you are still on the list please contact me.
>
>
Harry,
It is Aircraft Extras.
Here is web site. http://www.aircraftextras.com/
I have them and like them. Not flying yet be they have been great for the
many times I have been in and out of the cabin while finishing.
Dale Ensing
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob 1 <rv3a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs
> After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
operation (pre-flight etc).
>
> My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
>
> Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
I installed a used 3" enclosed 8 ohm speaker (of unknown origin). It quit
working soon after first flight. I found a 3" enclosed 4 ohm speaker with
mounting bracket at West Marine for about $20.00. The speaker is mounted under
the
instrument pane on the Pax side. I use the speaker for ground operations
only, can't hear it in flight.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 160 hours and counting
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:59:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation
(pre-flight etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly
- volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | wgill10(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Radio Shack sells a 4", 4 ohm speaker.
Bill
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
> have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
> operation (pre-flight etc).
> >
> > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
> difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
> >
> > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
> properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ralph Capen
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
> or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
>
>
>
Radio Shack sells a 4", 4 ohm speaker.
Bill
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Bob 1"
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground
operation (pre-flight etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work
properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
++++++++++++++++++++++++++
You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel.
Bob
<
BR>
om/digest/rv-list
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question |
rv-8(at)yahoogroups.com, RV10(at)yahoogroups.com
TAS from IAS and altitude and temp only works if your airspeed indicator is
correct...
I just posted some flight test cards I made up for myself for flying GPS
speed runs... You can put the numbers into the more sophisticated TAS
algorithm if you want, but if you just add them up and divide by three you
will be within a mile an hour or knot...
http://www.rv8a.com/downloads/index.htm
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "aviatrr76" <Aviatrr(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Prop Question
--- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, linn walters
wrote:
> Nope, GPS speed is ground speed. The averaging would only attempt
to
> convert groundspeed to true airspeed. There is a formula for
converting
> groundspeed over three legs to true airspeed. Then there's
indicated
> airspeed to throw into the mix. Sigh, flying used to be so simple!
The original question was in response to.....
> >> He stated 190mph on the GPS...so I assume he's referring to
TAS,
> >>
> >>
> >not
> >
> >
> >> IAS.
My comment about averaging upwind/downwind legs meant that if you
fly a 3 or more leg pattern(I prefer 4), with equivalent angles
between the headings, then average the numbers....you will have a
rough TAS. Of course, the other thing to do would be take your IAS
and convert it to TAS based on altitude and temperature.
Mike
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Z1wmxD/DREIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
Another possibility is that the aileron is contacting the skin or the wing tip
at the outboard point. My aileron was contacting the fiberglass where it is under
the top outboard wing skin. I filed the fiberglass so that the aileron cleared
and the resistance went away.
Jim Cone
3-peat Offender
RV-7A flying very soon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Cash,
Thanks for the info - I have a West Marine nearby - shoulda thought of that myself.....
Sometimes an extra brain helps,
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
From: JusCash(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cabin speaker specs
I installed a used 3" enclosed 8 ohm speaker (of unknown origin). It quit
working soon after first flight. I found a 3" enclosed 4 ohm speaker with
mounting bracket at West Marine for about $20.00. The speaker is mounted under
the
instrument pane on the Pax side. I use the speaker for ground operations
only, can't hear it in flight.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 160 hours and counting
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 7/15/2004 8:59:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
recapen(at)earthlink.net writes:
Folks,
After checking the archives for amplifying (pun intended) information - I
have decided that a small cabin speaker would be helpful for ground operation
(pre-flight etc).
My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm speaker which seem to be
difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available in abundance.....
Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or will it not work properly
- volume, freq, distortion...?
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
I would like to share my fuse experience with the list. My electrical system
is per Electric Bob. My system has just one circuit breaker for the
alternator. Returning from a trip I landed for gas at Barstow, Ca. The starter
would
not work. Checked the fuse, sure enough it was blown. I must have went to
the start position during the Mag check at the previous fuel stop. Looked in
my travel tool bag for a spare there were no fuses. I then remembered taking
them out of the bag to inventory them. Must have gotten distracted and forgot
to put them back. I thought to myself, where in the world am I going to find
a fuse in the middle of the desert? One of the locals had a box of fuses in
the glove compartment of his truck. He really got me when he said "Out here in
the desert 7.5 amp airplane fuses cost $20.00 apiece." I didn't hesitate as
I reached into my pocket for a Twenty. This turned out to be the big joke of
the day at the Barstow airport. He gave the fuse and a spare.
Fuses work for me, this was the first to blow. Just be sure to carry spares.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 160 hrs and counting
Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 7/15/2004 3:27:56 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
sears(at)searnet.com writes:
> I think that's a little extreme Hal, I know that "Electric Bob" likes
> fuses (although I still haven't figured out why), but, although they are
> expensive, circuit breakers DO work and work quite well and I would not
> advise against using them.
Although I don't advise against using CBs, I don't push them, either. They
cost too darned much, are mechanical and could fail from internal corrosion,
take up too much room, etc. Bob has been working on systems for a very long
time and knows that a failure is very rare. I've been flying my own
airplanes since 1986 and have had electrical failures that prompted a CB to
pop, or fuse to fail, maybe 5 times. Once when the voltage regulator failed
and and forced the OV protection to pop a breaker. A couple were caused by
a broken wire to the landing lights. The other two were when I had too
small a fuse on Scooter's starter contactor. That's it in 18 years of
aircraft ownership. When I built Scooter, I went with Bob's advice, and my
own experiences, and installed fuses. I still don't regret my decision and
will install fuses in my newest project, a -7A.
> It seems to me that there was a post just today about having to go to
> Walmart for fuses....?
>
I know we bash folks for buying stuff at the automotive chain stores and
even Walmart; but, good quality blade fuses can be bought about anywhere.
Well, maybe some don't consider Buss fuses as good quality; but, I've used
that brand almost all my life. Be careful about what you say about Walmart.
It's where most of us shop, these days. Good quality items can be bought
there, if one is careful to only buy good quality. Forget such things as
wire terminal ends, etc. Get those from aircraft suppliers.
I think the fuses sold in these stores are fast blow fuses. I'd rather not
have fast blows in some locations; but, it's not all bad having them,
either. I didn't like having the fuse blow at start up of the engine; but,
I'd really like them for a short in a radio wire, etc. If you want slow
blow fuses, you have to get them elsewhere.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317
EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
_-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cabin speaker specs |
Most automobile stereo speakers are 4 ohm. There are
plenty of cheap 1-way's out there.
--- Bob 1 wrote:
>
>
> > After checking the archives for amplifying (pun
> intended) information - I
> have decided that a small cabin speaker would be
> helpful for ground
> operation (pre-flight etc).
> >
> > My audio panel instructions call for a 4 ohm
> speaker which seem to be
> difficult to locate. 8 ohm speakers are available
> in abundance.....
> >
> > Will I fry something if I use a 8 ohm speaker? Or
> will it not work
> properly - volume, freq, distortion...?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ralph Capen
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++
>
>
> You can use an 8 ohm speaker, safely....
> or a pair of 8 ohms in parallel.
>
>
> Bob
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Having flown a test run to check out the effect of each magneto on my gradually-rising
EGT readings, I am ready to post some follow-up data:
First, I established 75% power cruise (2500 rpm & 23" MAP) and leaned to peak for
each cylinder, to see who leaned first and what the max temps were. Recall
that my prior max EGT was about 1515 F on cyl #3 in previous tests, but that the
idiot light alarm was going off in cruise last week for EGT's in the range
of 1540 F.
The peak EGT's were, in order of cylinders: 1509 1509 1524 1509 with #3 being the
first to peak as well as posting the highest peak.
I then set the mixture to well rich of peak at the same power setting (75%) and
took readings running on both mags, then Right only and Left only. Here are the
results from Cyl 1 to Cyl 4 for the three conditions:
Both: 1378 1390 1424 1398
Right: 1470 1501 1515 1528
Left: 1437 1449 1522 1457
From thses data, I can conclude:
1. The previous high readings of 1540 F are not reproducible today.
2. Running on just the right mag raises the temp of cylinders 2 the left mag alone
raises the temp of #3 the most. No such selective effect seen on cyl #1.
I assume this has some clever connection with which mag is firing the top or bottom
plugs on these cylinders.
3. The EGT effect is higher for the right mag than for the left, across all cylinders,
and may correlate somehow with the higher mag drop I have always seen
on run-up mag checks(consistently drops 125 rpm on just the R mag; and about 50
rpm on the L)
I have decided to reset the high EGT alarm limit to about 1560 F and just keep
an eye on things for now. I just bought a fresh batch of mogas and that might
have an effect when I start using it. On the X/C to OSH, I can check the effect
of 100LL as well.
Comments welcome!
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
In a message dated 7/15/04 8:45:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com writes:
> but I have - on more
> than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary
> overload condition and continue on operating the equipment
>>>>>>>>>>
I would respectfully suggest that if the circuit you mention were properly
designed, the overload would never have occured. This is the elegant simplicity
of the Bob N (as in Nuckolls!) system: complete understanding and correct
implementation of your very important electrical system....
Mark- all-electric RV driver and devout Nuckollhead 8-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: EGT follow-up |
The rise in egt temperature is caused by unburned gases passing into the
exhaust system. With both mags on, the fuel is burned in the cyc where it
belongs. This loss of power due to incomplete combustion is also why the rpm drops.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: EGT follow-up |
If you had a reasonable rise on either mag (you did)
from both, then your mags/plugs/etc. are probably ok.
To really test your ignition system, repeat the test
Lean of Peak.
Variations in batches of auto gas can certainly have
an effect on EGT. My bet is that is most likely the
case.
Again, EGT is best used as a relative measurement, not
an absolute measurement. Cylinder head temperatures
are really more important in an absolute sense.
Finally, engine RPM will have an effect on the max egt
attainable at a given manifold pressure. Try running
the test at 2700 RPM's and see how much hotter they
get!
Skylor
RV-8 QB Under Construction
N808SJ Reserved
--- SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Having flown a test run to check out the effect of
> each magneto on my gradually-rising EGT readings, I
> am ready to post some follow-up data:
>
> First, I established 75% power cruise (2500 rpm &
> 23" MAP) and leaned to peak for each cylinder, to
> see who leaned first and what the max temps were.
> Recall that my prior max EGT was about 1515 F on cyl
> #3 in previous tests, but that the idiot light alarm
> was going off in cruise last week for EGT's in the
> range of 1540 F.
>
> The peak EGT's were, in order of cylinders: 1509
> 1509 1524 1509 with #3 being the first to peak as
> well as posting the highest peak.
>
> I then set the mixture to well rich of peak at the
> same power setting (75%) and took readings running
> on both mags, then Right only and Left only. Here
> are the results from Cyl 1 to Cyl 4 for the three
> conditions:
>
> Both: 1378 1390 1424 1398
>
> Right: 1470 1501 1515 1528
>
> Left: 1437 1449 1522 1457
>
> From thses data, I can conclude:
> 1. The previous high readings of 1540 F are not
> reproducible today.
> 2. Running on just the right mag raises the temp of
> cylinders 2 the left mag alone raises the temp of
> #3 the most. No such selective effect seen on cyl
> #1. I assume this has some clever connection with
> which mag is firing the top or bottom plugs on these
> cylinders.
> 3. The EGT effect is higher for the right mag than
> for the left, across all cylinders, and may
> correlate somehow with the higher mag drop I have
> always seen on run-up mag checks(consistently drops
> 125 rpm on just the R mag; and about 50 rpm on the
> L)
>
> I have decided to reset the high EGT alarm limit to
> about 1560 F and just keep an eye on things for now.
> I just bought a fresh batch of mogas and that might
> have an effect when I start using it. On the X/C to
> OSH, I can check the effect of 100LL as well.
>
> Comments welcome!
>
> -Bill B
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com> |
Is there any advantage of flying to Oshkosh IFR in VFR conditions? I
see they require a slot reservation be made.
http://www.fly.faa.gov/estmp/ Has anyone used the slot reservation
system? Can one get a slot the day of flying or do you need to reserve
72 hours in advance? Should one get a reservation just in case OSH is
IFR? How about departure where you also need a reservation? Does this
need to be done well in advance? How does the slot system differ from
Flow control? So many questions.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Berthet, Andre G" <andre.g.berthet(at)intel.com> |
My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL
(~30"MP) and 2700 RPM.
Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in
relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM?
Thanks
Andre
Pleasanton, CA
RV-6, N29TA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Power settings |
Andre,
Ask Lycoming for the equivalent of Curve Sheet 13358 (O-360) for your engine.
This curve sheet tell you all that you were afraid to ask!
Richard Reynolds, RV-6A
"Berthet, Andre G" wrote:
>
> My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL
> (~30"MP) and 2700 RPM.
>
> Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in
> relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andre
>
> Pleasanton, CA
>
> RV-6, N29TA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude
or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
>
> This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at
> the slower, lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from
> Ripon to Osh?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
Dave, your RV will overheat at the slow 90 knot speed!!!!!!! Com'on,
throttle back and fly the 135 knot, higher altitude, inbound speed:>)
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 496 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Ailerons Tavel... |
I had a similar problem and found my left aileron outer bearing frozen.
There is so much leverage when using the stick you'll never notice it from
inside. Its a fairly common problem with old bearings. Vans has switched
to a different type.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Ailerons Tavel...
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Let me know what you find, mine does the same thing. 150 hours now, flies
> great.
>
>
> >
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > I have finally, I think..have the 15o. down and 25o up...the only
> > thing, is
> > that when I move the ailerons up, with my hand, there is some
resistance at
> >the start, of course from inside the cockpit, you canot feel any as the
stick
> >moves easily..
> >
> > I am concerned because when I have checked other rv's, there is
> > absolutely
> >not resistance of any kind, the ailerons moved up or down with one
finger....
> >
> > Any Ideas, or I am being paranoid about this?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > Bert
> >
> >
> >rv6a
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
I did the lower slower route last year. No problems. I was behind a Cessna Mixmaster.
This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower, lower altitude
or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
Dave Ford
RV6
tion
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
Yes, I was the first one to jump ugly while only having heard one side of
the story. I get a bit touchy about the lack of honor and civility in
society. My friends in the flying/building community are an oasis in a
social desert. So anyway, I was wrong, but after hearing the other side of
the story, I don't feel any differently.
6 weeks for a family emergency, and no phone call, no email, no nothing. I
burried a relative 500 miles away and sold her house in 2 weeks. (btw, the
RV transformed a 10 hr drive into a 3 hr flight)
Either way, if the agreement was that paypal was acceptable, then the
payment could have been made from any internet connected PC. Are we also
ignoring the seller's unreturned correspondence?? Did the buyer not
communicate with his family, office, anyone durring those 5 weeks. Comeon.
Maybe the buyer's intent was not to rip anyone off.
Lets give him the benefit of the doubt.
Then, at the very least it shows a calous disregard for the civility and
common (uncommon) courtesy that people in the RV community show towards each
other. A simple "I've had a family emergency and can't get a check out for
5 weeks" would have probably worked. I'm wondering if he forgot to pay his
mortgage during this time? I don't know about you all, but when I owe
someone money, I think about it CONSTANTLY. Its a thorn in my side until I
get a check out.
Last I'm saying on this.
Best regards,
Don Mei
p.s. I did not advocate damaging the plane. If the rudder was missing, the
buyer would have most assuredly noticed in his pre-flight. ;-) (last I
checked the 1st ammendment was still in effect)
MSN 9 Dial-up Internet Access helps fight spam and pop-ups now 2 months
FREE! http://join.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200361ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
Flown to Oshkosh 5 out of the last 6 years at the 1,800 90 Knot speed. Did
not go to AirVenture the one year. 4 of the 5 times it was as a flight of
RVs. NO SIDE BY SIDE. So the flight landed close together in trail. Watch
out for that wake turbulance.
My SOP (Standard Operating Procedure) is to do a practice 90 KIAS for about
5 or 10 minutes whiile I am still over one hour out of Oshkosh.
If your airplane can fly 90 KIAS, they EXPECT you to fly the 90 KIAS
pattern. If you cannot fly your RV at 90 KIAS under control in line behind
other aircraft, you have no business flying it into AirVenture.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
Date: Thu, 15 Jul 2004 22:40:23 -0500
This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower,
lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
Dave Ford
RV6
MSN Life Events gives you the tips and tools to handle the turning points in
your life. http://lifeevents.msn.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers |
If anyone has some Klixon 7277-2 CB's for sale, I'm looking for several.
Contact off list for a list of what I need.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: IFR to Oshkosh |
I flew IFR to Oshkosh last year and got the reservation just as soon as the system
would let me do it. The previous year I tried to get one at the last minute
since the weather went IFR on the way up. Could not get one. Ended up going
IFR into Madison and when I broke out on final I found it was good enough to
go VFR into Fond du Lac so I cancelled and diverted.
If it is actual VFR they say they will cancel your IFR when you get close and make
you sequence in with the VFR traffic. My experience was they vectored me
onto a long final approach, I got in behind a plane and landed on the first dot.
Easy and it was a good experience.
Jeff
lonestarsquadron.com
Ross Mickey wrote:
Is there any advantage of flying to Oshkosh IFR in VFR conditions? I
see they require a slot reservation be made.
http://www.fly.faa.gov/estmp/ Has anyone used the slot reservation
system? Can one get a slot the day of flying or do you need to reserve
72 hours in advance? Should one get a reservation just in case OSH is
IFR? How about departure where you also need a reservation? Does this
need to be done well in advance? How does the slot system differ from
Flow control? So many questions.
Ross Mickey
N9PT
RV6A
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
Lower.
At 08:20 PM 7/15/2004, you wrote:
>
>I did the lower slower route last year. No problems. I was behind a
>Cessna Mixmaster.
>
>Ford"
>
>This may be my first time flying to Osh, do most RVs fly at the slower,
>lower altitude or the faster higher altitude from Ripon to Osh?
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
>
>tion
>
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen
>RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers |
Check with B&B Aircraft Supply. He's got them surplus for about $5/each.
a.. B&B AIRCRAFT SUPPLIES 913-884-5930 AN HARDWARE, AIRCRAFT SURPLUS AND
LEATHER SEAT SKINS
Paul Besing
RV-6A Sold
RV-10 Soon
http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing
Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software
http://www.kitlog.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV-List: Want to buy Klixon Circuit Breakers
>
> If anyone has some Klixon 7277-2 CB's for sale, I'm looking for several.
> Contact off list for a list of what I need.
> Albert Gardner
> RV-9A 872RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
> I've been told by so
> >many that one can build the thing without a jig. Don't believe it. I
> >riveted the top rib and stopped to check to see if things were still
> >straight. Not so. There was twist between the top and bottom rib. I
> >decided to put it in a jig. Yep, there is a twist there.
>
> Jim, I think your choice of words in "Not so" may be just a little too
> strong. Finish your rudder and fly it the entire 20 miles over here and
> I'll challenge you to find any difference in my jigless rudder and yours.
I
> think your phrase needs to be changed to infer that you can't build
straight
> jigless piece, with "you" being the imperative word:-) (Gang, I know Jim,
> this is standard conversation)
>
Yep, Dana and I have long agreed to disagree. :-) However, I built my
rudder following the instructions up to the point of closing the rest of the
structure. Even though the instructions did mention using jigs in the first
part of the chapter, this is a replacement rudder that came with the wings.
There is no mention of using a jig in the set of instructions that came with
the new rudder. With that, I decided to give the jigless method a try.
However, I'm also paranoid about not wanting twist in this one because my
RV-6A does have a twist, here and there. :-) With that, I stuck the rudder
in my old jig after carefully aligning the jig to make sure it's straight.
I found the upper tip to be out about 1/4" from the lower tip at the
trailing edge. Granted, this isn't much; but, it is a twist, just the same.
Since I don't think my building techniques are all that much different than
most of us, I decided that using a jig may still be a better option for the
control surfaces, at least. I guess some of us are not so perfect as
others. I'll trust the jig method for myself. You more perfect builders
can use the jig method. :-)
> As the song goes, "Care to thank the dare, I'll make a bet with you."
>
I'm not sure how Dana did his rudder; and, I can only speak for myself. I
do know one must be careful to measure and measure again. I still see a
need for jigs, as is suggested in the first part of the chapter of my RV's
manual. As it turned out, I'm most likely going to lose time because I'll
most likely drill out the upper tip rivets and redo the whole rib again to
that the two will align better. That may be overkill; but, it's my body
that will be riding in this one. I don't dare not to do the best I know
how. :-)
> As for building with from plans only with the new plans, I think it would
be
> extremely difficult as there is not need for all the measurements. It is
> pretty much take A and rivet to B, this makes AB, take AB and rivet on C
> with the called out rivets and you now have a completed piece ABC.
> As one 6 builder put it a couple years ago................we are now
> assemblers not builders..........so be it..........I Like It.
Oh, I'm not saying I don't like it; but, I have found that I've spent more
time than I thought I would on some things. I have to get used to the new
way of doing things; but, call outs for some items would be helpful if done
differently. For example, most rivets are called out separately. When I
looked for the rivets for the anchor nuts, I found them with the nut and
bolt information. Why? I have yet to find the bolt description for the
elevator center bearing. Of course, that could come later. Since I bought
this tail kit after it was almost built, my kit has a bolt, or two, missing.
With that, I'm not sure if it came with the bolt, yet. Still, it would have
been nice to see the description since the other bearings were shown. Then,
I could order the bolt. I may have to see if I can find it in the rest of
the plans sheets.
No more fussing, for now. I've got a less than perfect rudder to work on.
Jim in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Photos of RV-4 Stick boots. |
I was thinking of trying my hand at making up some stick boots for my RV-4.
I was not sure how others have fitted the base of the boot to the aircraft
structure, espescially in the back seat. I was wondering if anyone had, or
could take some pictures of the boots in their '4.
My alternative email at dmei1(at)yahoo.com can accept large attachments.
Thank you for your help.
Don Mei
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Power settings |
Andre,
This table and others are in the Lycoming Operator's guide.
Thanks,
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
----- Original Message -----
From: Berthet, Andre G <andre.g.berthet(at)intel.com>
Subject: RV-List: Power settings
>
> My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL
> (~30"MP) and 2700 RPM.
>
> Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in
> relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andre
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Berthet, Andre G" <andre.g.berthet(at)intel.com> |
Thanks Richard. I will contact Lycoming.
Andr Berthet
408-765-1447
877-488-7081
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard V. Reynolds
Subject: Re: RV-List: Power settings
Andre,
Ask Lycoming for the equivalent of Curve Sheet 13358 (O-360) for your engine.
This curve sheet tell you all that you were afraid to ask!
Richard Reynolds, RV-6A
"Berthet, Andre G" wrote:
>
> My Lycoming I0-360-A1A is supposed to produce 200hp (100% power) at SL
> (~30"MP) and 2700 RPM.
>
> Could someone tell me where I could find a table listing % Power in
> relation to Pressure Altitude, MP, and RPM?
>
> Thanks
>
> Andre
>
> Pleasanton, CA
>
> RV-6, N29TA
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | SW 10 Coil Oil Cooler for sale |
I have a yellow tagged Stewart Warner 10 coil oil cooler 10610A that I
bought from Pacific Oil Cooler but never used because it wouldn't fit on the
rear baffle without a lot more work than I wanted to do. I'll sell this for
the best offer.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A 872RV
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter(at)jpainter.org> |
> the new rudder. With that, I decided to give the jigless method a try.
> However, I'm also paranoid about not wanting twist in this one because my
> RV-6A does have a twist, here and there. :-) With that, I stuck the
> rudder
> in my old jig after carefully aligning the jig to make sure it's straight.
> I found the upper tip to be out about 1/4" from the lower tip at the
> trailing edge. Granted, this isn't much; but, it is a twist, just the
> same.
My understanding is that your new rudder is new -7 (same as -9) with the
AEX wedge riveted into the trailing edge. It seems to me that your
'twist' may be a result of technique used to rivet the trailing edge. I
built my entire empennage without jigs and have measured them in every
conceivable way just to see how straight they are. They are all perfect
within a mil or two all around - and I KNOW it has nothing to do with my
shop skills! :-)
Are you sure it is 'twist' in the rudder and not a 'wave' in the trailing
edge by the rivets pulling the skin on way or another? The reason I ask
is because even in a jig it may be straight when clecoed but if the
riveting method is the culprit it will pull out of alignment when you
start setting rivets. Just my two cents....
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
>
> > the new rudder. With that, I decided to give the jigless method a try.
> > However, I'm also paranoid about not wanting twist in this one because
my
> > RV-6A does have a twist, here and there. :-) With that, I stuck the
> > rudder
> > in my old jig after carefully aligning the jig to make sure it's
straight.
> > I found the upper tip to be out about 1/4" from the lower tip at the
> > trailing edge. Granted, this isn't much; but, it is a twist, just the
> > same.
>
> My understanding is that your new rudder is new -7 (same as -9) with the
> AEX wedge riveted into the trailing edge. It seems to me that your
> 'twist' may be a result of technique used to rivet the trailing edge. I
> built my entire empennage without jigs and have measured them in every
> conceivable way just to see how straight they are. They are all perfect
> within a mil or two all around - and I KNOW it has nothing to do with my
> shop skills! :-)
>
> Are you sure it is 'twist' in the rudder and not a 'wave' in the trailing
> edge by the rivets pulling the skin on way or another? The reason I ask
> is because even in a jig it may be straight when clecoed but if the
> riveting method is the culprit it will pull out of alignment when you
> start setting rivets. Just my two cents....
>
It seems I've given the impression that my trailing edge is twisted or
waved. I have yet to rivet that. The problem is the alignment of the tips.
That is to say that the top rib is not aligned with the bottom rib. The two
should align with each other to prevent a twist in the rudder. If twisted
enough, it could even show up as misaligned bearings because th spar would
be twisted, as well.
I assembled and match drilled all holes, per the intructions. I have not
riveted the bottom rib, the spar, or the trailing edge. I did rivet the top
rib. Then, I did an alignment check with clecos in the top and bottom, the
spar, and trailing edge. The top rib was off center by more than a 1/4" at
the trailing edge, when compared to the bottom rib trailing edge. I did not
use a jig to rivet rib or hold things aligned as I did so. With that, I
found that I had to remove all of the rivets from the top rib, jig the
stucture, and start over with the rivets.
At the point of this reply, I have part of the rivets back in, am using a
makeshift jig because my old -6 jig didn't work as well, and am holding to
within 1/16" twist between machining holes. I think that will be close
enough. I may drill out one of the two pulled rivets, though. That may
also relieve things to allow me to get back that 1/16" and remove any stress
that may be still there.
As I've said before, some of us can't seem to match drill holes as perfectly
as those produced by a machine. Maybe that's why we need a jig and why Van
recommends them to us. Because of this little bout which cost me a lot of
lost time, you can bet your bippy my wings will not be built on a table.
They'll be locked in a jig just as I did the ones for Scooter. I don't have
the luck some of you other builders have. I have to do it as described in
the manual by using a jig.
Jim in KY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter(at)jpainter.org> |
> They'll be locked in a jig just as I did the ones for Scooter. I don't
> have
> the luck some of you other builders have. I have to do it as described in
> the manual by using a jig.
>
> Jim in KY
Jim:
Just curious. Where in the manual does it suggest using a jig? I've
looked and can't find it. I've seen older plans that include instructions
on building an empennage jig. I don't see why the folks at Van's would
remove the plans for the jigs if they still recommended (or even
suggested) the use of them. My plans do have a drawing for a simple wing
jig (which I've built) but nothing for the empennage.
My main concern is this: I can't see how any component built from
completely pre-punched components could come out twisted. The only
possible exception could be something such as an inaccurate bend in a
folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I mentioned in my earlier
post.
I don't doubt that what you are saying is correct, I'm just curious how it
could come out twisted when the only 'play' you have in the alignment is
the diameter of the rivet holes (variations in accuracy of builder
match-drilling).
My understanding from your previous post is that you are checking the
structure in the jig without the skins on. I bet a quick test of clecoing
the skins on would straighten that sucker right up.
There could possibly be some inaccuracies in the bends of the flanges, but
other than that, I don't see how you could cleco a structure on the table
and it not be straight, then put it in a jig, cleco it together again
using the same holes and it be straight.
- Jamie
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Warren Gretz <warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com> |
| Subject: | Gretz Aero Heated Pitot Tubes and Mounting Brackets |
Hello Builders,
We have been off of this list for some time, but wanted to let you know we are
still making and selling parts for your aircraft. We have been in the process
of moving our operation from Colorado to Idaho for the past several months. With
luck, we should be settled into our new location in Idaho by the end of the
first week of August.
Meanwhile, our Heated Pitot Tube Mounting Bracket Kits are still very popular and
we been keeping very busy producing them. We do want to let everyone know that
we will need to increase our prices slightly, effective the 1st of August.
This increse is due to our raw material costs going up and also shipping charges
that have been going up over the past two years. We have tried to keep from
raising prices as long as we can, but now need to do so. Sorry.
GOOD NEWS is that we are getting very close to having our NEWEST Gretz Aero designed
product available! It is the GA-1000. This is a heated pitot tube that is
a totaly new design. It is completely different than any pitot before.
The Gretz Aero heated pitot tube is called the GA-1000 and will look nearly
like the PH502-12CR pitot tube except the GA-1000 will be black in color, and it
will be lighter in weight than any other heated pitot tube on the market. The
GA-1000 will be what we are calling a "smart" pitot tube. It
will give the pilot feedback as to its operation on the panel. It will also
be very energy conserative and be excellent installed in an aircraft with a
small altanator in the electrical system. The only bad part is, it is not
available yet. We plan on having it available very soon, if production does
not throw us a problem. It has taken us MUCH MUCH longer to get this project
done than we ever dreamed it would. The TARGET price on the GA-1000 is +/- $325
depending upon final production costs. This price will include shipping charges
in the US.
There are a number of builders that are purchasing our mounting bracket kit,
which was designed for the PH502-12CR pitot, (which has been available for
years), this same bracket kit will also fit the new GA-1000. Once the mounting
bracket is installed in your aircraft, the GA-1000 pitot tube can be installed
at a later date when it is available. Other pitot tubes that are now available,
will also fit into the same mounting bracket as well as the GA-1000.
We will make as big a splash as we can on our website, http://www.gretzaero.com , and this List, when the new Gretz Aero GA-1000 heated pitot tube product is available. There will be a page on the Gretz Aero website that will cover this product in great detail.
I hope this information helps you.
Your can place orders with Gretz Aero on the gretzaero.com website, print out the
printable order form on the order page of the website and mail, or call the
phone numbers below.
If you want to reply to us about this message posting, please do so directly to
my e-mail address below and not on the LIST.
Good Building to you!
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
15405 Bates Creek Rd.
Oreana, ID 83650
warrengretz(at)gretzaero.com
http://www.gretzaero.com
720-308-0010
208-834-2312
Warren Gretz
Gretz Aero
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
> My main concern is this: I can't see how any component built from
> completely pre-punched components could come out twisted. The only
> possible exception could be something such as an inaccurate bend in a
> folded trailing edge or the AEX wedge riveting I mentioned in my earlier
> post.
My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" topic comes up is: why
WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in terms of wood, screws,
clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it and take the variables out
of the equation!
Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable twist in the wings
doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. It takes like 20 minutes
to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done there, too), and then you
just take the horizontal member down and it's your wing stand. Elevators,
rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. Helps to have 'em in a
stand like that when riveting anyway.
In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of these wings is
unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. Match-drilled or not,
just build the jig and be done with it.
I don't mean to come off too harsh, but what's the down side to building
jigs? If you want a clean, fast plane that flies straight, use everything
in your power to build it that way.
Just my 2 cents,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sportpilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SW 10 Coil Oil Cooler for sale |
I would like to bid on that item , 100.00 when I get back from cancun
thursday ?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: RV-List: SW 10 Coil Oil Cooler for sale
>
> I have a yellow tagged Stewart Warner 10 coil oil cooler 10610A that I
> bought from Pacific Oil Cooler but never used because it wouldn't fit on
the
> rear baffle without a lot more work than I wanted to do. I'll sell this
for
> the best offer.
> Albert Gardner
> RV-9A 872RV
> Yuma, AZ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Just to echo what Dan has said....
I think a lot of people have been lulled into a false sense of security
because of the "pre-punched" thing. Coming from someone who has done sheet
metal on everything from Pipers to 747's, and having built 2 RV's I can tell
you without hesitation that it is actually quite easy to build a twist into
your "pre-punched" kit.
Here's an example. You take your 100% pre-punched wing kit, even get to the
stage of drilled/dimpled and I guarnatee you I could easily build in a good
sized twist into your wing just during the riveting process. I'd wager to
guess I could get your wing close to 1" out by using no other methods that
how I rivet it together, even though it was "prepunched". Having built some
of the new prepunched stuff, I can also guarnatee that I could easily build
a VERY wavy and twisted rudder, even though the "wedge" is punched, etc..
Don't believe me?? - go down the line at OSH and I'll bet there are some
rudders that aren't perfectly straight. If the table you are building your
rudder, ailerons, elevators, etc.. happens to be out of whack, guess what,
your surfaces will probably be too.
That being said, it is more difficult to build in twist with the pre-punched
stuff, but far from impossible. There are hundreds of variables that would
allow you to unknowingly put a twist into a part, Like; not true/flat work
table, a floor that is not level, riveting order incorrect, etc...
I don't want to scare people into thinking they need to build super jigs for
everything, but like Dan said, the requisite jigs for a good tail and wing
job are dirt simple. Those flight controls will have more to do with how
your airplane flies straight/true than you would imagine!
This prepunched stuff is the best thing since sliced bread, but that doesn't
mean it assembles itself perfectly.
Just my 3 cents,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: plans
My comment whenever the "to jig or not to jig" topic comes up is: why
WOULDN'T you use jigs?! It doesn't cost diddly in terms of wood, screws,
clamps, plumb bobs, and fishing line. Just do it and take the variables out
of the equation!
Just because Van's allows such-and-such acceptable twist in the wings
doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to ensure zero. It takes like 20 minutes
to build an H-stand for your HS (VS can be done there, too), and then you
just take the horizontal member down and it's your wing stand. Elevators,
rudder, etc. can be V-groove jigged on the bench. Helps to have 'em in a
stand like that when riveting anyway.
In my book, 1/16" twist from root to tip on one of these wings is
unacceptable if it can be prevented -- and it CAN. Match-drilled or not,
just build the jig and be done with it.
I don't mean to come off too harsh, but what's the down side to building
jigs? If you want a clean, fast plane that flies straight, use everything
in your power to build it that way.
Just my 2 cents,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Stein,
I will agree with you that it is still possible to build a twist in
the control surfaces if you aren't careful. I had to build one elevator over
because of what I felt was an unacceptable twist. However, I would agree that it
is possible to build a twist into the wing, but I think it is much more
difficult.
My wings just clecoed together and hanging on the jig (not clamped down) had
only an 1/8" twist. Some minor jigging and no more twist. After dimpling and
riveting ( I didn't exactly follow Van's riveting instructions) and still no
twist. At least in my case, I would have to say that I probably could have built
the wings without clamping them into the jig and had only 1/8 to maybe 3/16
twist. It didn't require much effort to remove the twist. I would say it's the
contol surfaces that we need to worry about building in an unacceptable twist.
My .02
Bryon Crook
-7A wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Determining Compression Ratio |
Thanks for the nudge Charlie,
A quick search on google (compression ratio formula) proves your point.
It is the ratio between the total cylinder volume at BDC and the cylinder
volume at TDC. And in the example cited, the corrected figures are
(900+90): 90 or 990:90 or 11:1
based on piston displacement = 900cc and the chamber volume = 90 cc.
Tom
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Determining Compression Ratio
>
> Wouldn't it be (900+90) : 90 ?
>
> Charlie
>
>
> Tom Barnes wrote:
>
> >
> >John,
> > This method is anything but exotic, but it works on light weight
> >motorcycle engines where they can easily be moved around. You can give
it
> >some thought and consider if it will work for you.
> >
> >If the engine is on the bench,
> >and you have relatively good piston rings in the cylinder to be tested,
> >stand the cylinder upright,
> >squirt a little oil around the piston to seal the rings,
> >position the piston to compression stroke, top-dead-center.
> >Use a dispensor that can measure CC's and fill the head cavity up to the
> >bottom of the spark plug threads and note the volume that was added.
> >Example: 90 cc's.
> >Next, you have to come up with the piston displacement. If you know the
> >exact bore and stroke, you can calculate it using the pi * R squared
> >formula.
> >The ugly way to find the piston displacement is to rotate the engine to
> >bottom-dead-center and repeat the process and record the amount liquid
added
> >on this second run leaving the initial liquid in the chamber. Record the
> >volume. Example 900 cc's.
> >Your answer is the ratio between the two numbers. Example: 900 : 90 or
> >simply 10 : 1
> >
> >Good luck.
> > Tom
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
> >To:
> >Subject: RV-List: Determining Compression Ratio
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>Is there a simple method of determining the compression ratio on a
> >>
> >>
> >Lycoming
> >
> >
> >>O-320 that may or may not have been upgraded to larger pistons without
> >>taking anything apart and without using some exotic measuring devise?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mb.sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
> Having flow military, I for one would never put any critical system
circuit
> on a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on
more
> than one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a
temporary
> overload condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that
> with a fuse. I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight
> and cheaper fuse and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any
critical
> system
Electric Bob makes a point in his postings, and to a lesser extent in his
book, that many people don't catch the first time around. I certainly
didn't. It ain't just about fuses vs breakers, it's about fuses vs breakers
AND designing your electrical system so there aren't any "critical" points
of failure. System redundancy is the whole key to the fuses arguement. If
you have any single piece of equipment whose failure would create a
disasterous situation, then sure, use a breaker, but it's a crappy way to
design things. Bob's system is to build in redundancy for critical systems
and then use fuses instead of breakers to add even greater reliability.
Without getting into the math, redundant systems with fuses are going to be
more reliable than a single system with a circuit breaker *every time*.
Usually by several orders of magnitude. This doesn't mean you have double up
on every piece of avionics gear. A radio or transponder failure isn't likely
to kill you. But having two separate cockpit lighting circuits if you are
going to fly at night is a damn good idea and relatively cheap to implement.
Same thing for something like a nav radio if you fly IFR. If you have a GPS
for backup, then the fact that your VOR/GS receiver packs up and blows a
fuse probably isn't a huge deal. If it is - because you are in the middle of
an ILS to minimums - then you should have two VOR/GS receivers, not a single
receiver with a circuit breaker that you desparately try to reset as you
hurtle towards oblivion. In most cases, when a piece of electronics fries,
it's dead, and the breaker isn't going to reset anyway.
Another point Bob makes is to put your fuse box in a location that you can't
access in flight, so you aren't tempted to start replacing fuses and
troubleshooting systems in flight. Accept that the circuit is dead, activate
the backup if you need to and land somewhere. Aircraft, including airliners,
have been lost because pilots fooled around with troubleshooting nuisance
electrical problems, like tripping circuit breakers, and flew into the
ground.
Curt
RV-6, 180 hours, fused
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SW 10 Coil Oil Cooler for sale |
I'm going to Alaska (by boat) for 1 week and will ship this to the highest
offer when I return. This thing is as received with the yellow tag from
Pacific Coolers. I'll refund your money if you are not satisfied when you
get it.
Albert
----- Original Message -----
From: "sportpilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: SW 10 Coil Oil Cooler for sale
>
> I would like to bid on that item , 100.00 when I get back from cancun
> thursday ?
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Albert Gardner" <spudnut(at)worldnet.att.net>
> To: ;
> Subject: RV-List: SW 10 Coil Oil Cooler for sale
>
>
> >
> > I have a yellow tagged Stewart Warner 10 coil oil cooler 10610A that I
> > bought from Pacific Oil Cooler but never used because it wouldn't fit on
> the
> > rear baffle without a lot more work than I wanted to do. I'll sell this
> for
> > the best offer.
> > Albert Gardner
> > RV-9A 872RV
> > Yuma, AZ
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
In the fuse/breaker war I haven't seen anyone state why the fuse/ckt
breaker is there. I will. It's there to protect the wiring, not the
device on the end of the wire. If a device fails and causes an
increased load above the value set to protect the wire, the fuse blows
or the ckt breaker pops. All things being equal at this point, the
choice of breaker Vs fuse is a moot point. If (as mentioned below) a
'temporary overload condition' occurs to pop a breaker, then the ckt
design is at fault. The wire size needs to be larger so the breaker can
be larger, so the load can be larger with more safety factor.
Typically, in an electronic device (your radio, transponder, GPS ....
whatever) as the components age, there is the great possibility that the
current load will increase a little. However, it's the catastrophic
failure that will cause a large amount of current flow and blow the fuse
or pop the ckt breaker ...... but the device is not functioning properly
any longer so being able to reset the breaker doesn't make the device
come alive again. Again, fuses and breakers are of equal value.
However, if you stack more than one device on a fuse/breaker, then the
breaker has an advantage. You can turn off everything on that breaker
and reset it to find out which unit malfunctioned and leave that one
unit off while using the other devices. Poor design, in my book. As
Curt says, the only way not to have one critical component that can fail
is to have redundant systems. My Tomahawk has one breaker for lights
which includes nav and panel lights. Poor design, but cheaper to
manufacture. I had a wire chafe through on a nav light that made the
whole airplane visually stealthy, which is why we carry flashlights when
we fly at night. So, I guess I concur with Curt. One fuse for every
device and redundant devices (and ckts) to avoid the 'critical system'
scenario. The one advantage that some 'pullable' breakers have is to
combine switch and breaker in one unit, thereby saving panel space.
Check the cycle count for those breakers and make sure that the 'switch'
won't fail in your (or the planes) lifetime. It probably won't. Don't
plan on using the 'pullable' fuse as a switch .... the contacts just
aren't rated for that abuse.
Linn
Curt Reimer wrote:
>
>>aving flow military, I for one would never put any critical system/circuit on
a fuse. I understand Bob's well reasoned rational, but I have - on more than
one occasion - been able to reset a circuit breaker due to a temporary overload
condition and continue on operating the equipment - can't do that with a fuse.
I will certainly agree there is a place for the lightweight and cheaper fuse
and I used them in my aircraft - just not in any critical system
>>
>>
>
>Electric Bob makes a point in his postings, and to a lesser extent in his
>book, that many people don't catch the first time around. I certainly
>didn't. It ain't just about fuses vs breakers, it's about fuses vs breakers
>AND designing your electrical system so there aren't any "critical" points
>of failure. System redundancy is the whole key to the fuses arguement. If
>you have any single piece of equipment whose failure would create a
>disasterous situation, then sure, use a breaker, but it's a crappy way to
>design things. Bob's system is to build in redundancy for critical systems
>and then use fuses instead of breakers to add even greater reliability.
>
>Without getting into the math, redundant systems with fuses are going to be
>more reliable than a single system with a circuit breaker *every time*.
>Usually by several orders of magnitude. This doesn't mean you have double up
>on every piece of avionics gear. A radio or transponder failure isn't likely
>to kill you. But having two separate cockpit lighting circuits if you are
>going to fly at night is a damn good idea and relatively cheap to implement.
>Same thing for something like a nav radio if you fly IFR. If you have a GPS
>for backup, then the fact that your VOR/GS receiver packs up and blows a
>fuse probably isn't a huge deal. If it is - because you are in the middle of
>an ILS to minimums - then you should have two VOR/GS receivers, not a single
>receiver with a circuit breaker that you desparately try to reset as you
>hurtle towards oblivion. In most cases, when a piece of electronics fries,
>it's dead, and the breaker isn't going to reset anyway.
>
>Another point Bob makes is to put your fuse box in a location that you can't
>access in flight, so you aren't tempted to start replacing fuses and
>troubleshooting systems in flight. Accept that the circuit is dead, activate
>the backup if you need to and land somewhere. Aircraft, including airliners,
>have been lost because pilots fooled around with troubleshooting nuisance
>electrical problems, like tripping circuit breakers, and flew into the
>ground.
>
>Curt
>RV-6, 180 hours, fused
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
>but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able," and an
RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird arrival
instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high performance
turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of which describes
your typical RV.
I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the 2 altitude
choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of flying slower
than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor a little and cooling
issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to highlight the "speed restrictions"
noting that although aircraft can fly faster they are looking for understandable
cooperation. My concern would be flying the lower slower altitude
and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with string trimmer engine" flying
at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So considering safety, cooling, visibility,
is it wrong to fly at and be more comfortable at a faster, higher altitude
for arrival?
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "mbick" <mbick(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Help with Bendix/precision servo |
Subject: Help with Bendix/precision servo
At idle engine runs fine but anything past that and at full rich if I
advance the throttle the egt goes through the roof.
And the engine runs very rough.
Prior I noticed that EGT would go way up when I shut the throttle down in a
dive like base to final but nothing like it is now. I dare not take off.
All that basics covered, no clogged lines to the servo, fuel filter clean as
can be, Fuel pressure @ 26 lbs.
Any ideas?
Also if anyone has any manuals or PDF docs online for the Bendix/Precision
fuel server and flow divider I could sure use one.
Thanks
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | FW: Help with Bendix/precision servo |
Bite the bullet, send the servo and flow divider out to a certified shop
for cleaning and overhaul. It's cheaper than replacing your engine.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mbick
Subject: RV-List: FW: Help with Bendix/precision servo
Subject: Help with Bendix/precision servo
At idle engine runs fine but anything past that and at full rich if I
advance the throttle the egt goes through the roof.
And the engine runs very rough.
Prior I noticed that EGT would go way up when I shut the throttle down
in a
dive like base to final but nothing like it is now. I dare not take off.
All that basics covered, no clogged lines to the servo, fuel filter
clean as
can be, Fuel pressure @ 26 lbs.
Any ideas?
Also if anyone has any manuals or PDF docs online for the
Bendix/Precision
fuel server and flow divider I could sure use one.
Thanks
Mike
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
YES it is WRONG.
The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your test
flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the engine
running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride gets
interesting.
The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain 135
knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys the
higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on the
ground.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
>but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able," and
an
RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
arrival
instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
performance
turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of which
describes
your typical RV.
I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the 2
altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor a
little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to highlight
the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster they
are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying the
lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with string
trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So considering
safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more comfortable
at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
Dave Ford
RV6
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
Tell that to Ben Moyle who dug a deep hole in the ground with a
stall/spin on final in the 'slow' lane a couple of year ago in his
Glasair III. The GIII can fly at 90 Kts and not overheat but it's not
safe.
Next time you don't have much to do, establish yourself at 5,000 agl and
90 Kts. Trim things up so everything is stable, Pull the power to idle
and wait for 3 seconds (the average time the FAA gives the pilot to
react to an emergency). Now regain control of the airplane and assume
normal glide attitude. Note your altitude loss. If you have a CS prop
the number will shock you. Low and slow is a killer.
Look for me at 2,300 msl and 135 Kts.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
YES it is WRONG.
The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your
test
flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
engine
running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride
gets
interesting.
The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain
135
knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys
the
higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
the
ground.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
>but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able,"
and
an
RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
arrival
instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
performance
turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of
which
describes
your typical RV.
I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the
2
altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor
a
little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
highlight
the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster
they
are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying
the
lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
string
trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
considering
safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more
comfortable
at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
Dave Ford
RV6
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
I knew Ben for a long time, and miss him to this day. At 2300, you can't
hear the other pilots laughing anyway.
Oiling up my neck for the swivel action...
Cory
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bruce Gray
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
Tell that to Ben Moyle who dug a deep hole in the ground with a
stall/spin on final in the 'slow' lane a couple of year ago in his
Glasair III. The GIII can fly at 90 Kts and not overheat but it's not
safe.
Next time you don't have much to do, establish yourself at 5,000 agl and
90 Kts. Trim things up so everything is stable, Pull the power to idle
and wait for 3 seconds (the average time the FAA gives the pilot to
react to an emergency). Now regain control of the airplane and assume
normal glide attitude. Note your altitude loss. If you have a CS prop
the number will shock you. Low and slow is a killer.
Look for me at 2,300 msl and 135 Kts.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
YES it is WRONG.
The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your
test
flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
engine
running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride
gets
interesting.
The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain
135
knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys
the
higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
the
ground.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
>but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able,"
and
an
RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
arrival
instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
performance
turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of
which
describes
your typical RV.
I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the
2
altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor
a
little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
highlight
the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster
they
are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying
the
lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
string
trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
considering
safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more
comfortable
at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
Dave Ford
RV6
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
An RV is not a Glasair III. IT (the RV) can outperform the Glasair III at
SLOW speeds. ANY RV pilot that cannot fly the approach to OSH at 90 should
not be flying to AirVenture.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 00:14:25 -0400
Tell that to Ben Moyle who dug a deep hole in the ground with a
stall/spin on final in the 'slow' lane a couple of year ago in his
Glasair III. The GIII can fly at 90 Kts and not overheat but it's not
safe.
Next time you don't have much to do, establish yourself at 5,000 agl and
90 Kts. Trim things up so everything is stable, Pull the power to idle
and wait for 3 seconds (the average time the FAA gives the pilot to
react to an emergency). Now regain control of the airplane and assume
normal glide attitude. Note your altitude loss. If you have a CS prop
the number will shock you. Low and slow is a killer.
Look for me at 2,300 msl and 135 Kts.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FW: Help with Bendix/precision servo |
> At idle engine runs fine but anything past that and at full rich if I
> advance the throttle the egt goes through the roof.
> ...
> Prior I noticed that EGT would go way up when I shut the throttle down in
a
> dive like base to final but nothing like it is now. I dare not take off.
Just a guess, but my assumption is that some or all plugs may not be firing
on one mag (or both?). The only time I've seen EGT go up like that is when
I was operating on partial ignition (due to a known electronic ignition
failure I diagnosed in flight). On final, upon closing the throttle, my
EGTs went off the chart (up to about 1600F, when the normal peak in cruise
is 1440-1470F). My limited understanding is that combustion isn't occuring
in the cylinder but is occurring in the exhaust, and you'll see EGTs go
through the roof like that since the "fire" is happening right there at the
probe.
To rule this out, you ought to check your plugs, check the gap, make sure
they're not caked with lead deposits, maybe check your timing, mags, plug
wires, etc.
> Also if anyone has any manuals or PDF docs online for the Bendix/Precision
> fuel server and flow divider I could sure use one.
My recommendation would be to call Airflow Performance if you find it's
really a problem with the servo and not ignition related. I could be wrong,
but I believe they work on Bendix components as well.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
"Any RV that flys the
higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on the
ground."
WHY would anyone get laughed at by making a safe approach? Some Oshkosh
approaches have turned deadly when the pilot could not slow as the plane in
front. We had 3 stall spin accidents in one year. Another year, a jet pilot
used the slow approach, had a forced landing on the streets of Oshkosh and
his wife was burned to death in the resulting fire.
ALL of the these people would be alive today, if they had used the "high"
pattern.
Laughed at? I think not but even a lot of laughter is better than the best
funeral.
The idea is to fly safe! To arrive in one piece.
Anyone that laughs at those practicing safe flight need to take another look
at their safety practices.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
> YES it is WRONG.
>
> The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
> overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your test
> flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
> environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
engine
> running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
> cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
>
> I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
> back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
> ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
>
> WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride gets
> interesting.
>
> The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain 135
> knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys the
> higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on the
> ground.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
>
>
> >but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
> the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able,"
and
> an
> RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
> arrival
> instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
> performance
> turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of which
> describes
> your typical RV.
>
>
> I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the 2
> altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
> flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor a
> little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
highlight
> the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster they
> are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying
the
> lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
string
> trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
considering
> safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more comfortable
> at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
>
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter(at)jpainter.org> |
> Having built some
> of the new prepunched stuff, I can also guarnatee that I could easily build
> a VERY wavy and twisted rudder, even though the "wedge" is punched, etc..
Don't believe me?? - go down the line at OSH and I'll bet there are some
rudders that aren't perfectly straight. If the table you are building your
> rudder, ailerons, elevators, etc.. happens to be out of whack, guess what,
your surfaces will probably be too.
I understand what you're saying and I think it's pointless for me, a
first-timer to argue a point with someone who has built two. :-)
However, I think it's important to note that EVEN IN A JIG improper riveting
technique will cause riveted trailing edges to be wavy. The jig will NOT keep
it straight. The jig will just give you a quick method of verifying the
trailing edge is wavy.
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings N622JP (reserved)
http://rv.jpainter.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
You are all scaring me who are promoting that 90 in an RV is slow. I have
over 500 hours in a -6 with a CS prop and over 400 in a -4 with a wood prop.
I always fly the pattern at 80 mph and have never had a stall spin accident
yet, and I have been in some high density patterns (Merced, Arlington). All
you have to do is watch what you are doing. Don't they teach airspeed
control any more? As for Glasair and Lancair pilots, go fly the higher
pattern, No one will laugh at you.........
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Fw: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
> "Any RV that flys the
> higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on the
> ground."
>
> WHY would anyone get laughed at by making a safe approach? Some Oshkosh
> approaches have turned deadly when the pilot could not slow as the plane
in
> front. We had 3 stall spin accidents in one year. Another year, a jet
pilot
> used the slow approach, had a forced landing on the streets of Oshkosh and
> his wife was burned to death in the resulting fire.
>
> ALL of the these people would be alive today, if they had used the "high"
> pattern.
>
> Laughed at? I think not but even a lot of laughter is better than the best
> funeral.
>
> The idea is to fly safe! To arrive in one piece.
>
> Anyone that laughs at those practicing safe flight need to take another
look
> at their safety practices.
>
> Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
> Safety Programs Editor - TC
> EAA Sport Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
>
> >
> > YES it is WRONG.
> >
> > The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
> > overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your
test
> > flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
> > environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
> engine
> > running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
> > cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
> >
> > I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
> > back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
> > ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
> >
> > WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride
gets
> > interesting.
> >
> > The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain
135
> > knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys
the
> > higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
the
> > ground.
> >
> > Gary A. Sobek
> > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> > 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
> >
> >
> > ----Original Message Follows----
> > From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> > To:
> > Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
> >
> >
> >
> > >but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
> > the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able,"
> and
> > an
> > RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
> > arrival
> > instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
> > performance
> > turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of
which
> > describes
> > your typical RV.
> >
> >
> > I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the
2
> > altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
> > flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor
a
> > little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
> highlight
> > the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster
they
> > are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying
> the
> > lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
> string
> > trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
> considering
> > safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more
comfortable
> > at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
> >
> > Dave Ford
> > RV6
> >
> > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon and Marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
An RV is not a Glasair III. IT (the RV) can outperform the Glasair III
at
SLOW speeds. ANY RV pilot that cannot fly the approach to OSH at 90
should
not be flying to AirVenture.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
Exactly.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
I have no doubt that you can fly an RV at 90 knots but there are incoming
planes that use the low pattern that cannot maintain that speed. A J-3 comes
to mind. They are more like 70 knots.
Now you are going to say that they should be using the no radio approach.
Maybe so but two things come to mind. By NOTAM this year to come in No
Radio, you have to phone ahead for permission. Why? because most low and
slow pilots now carry a hand held. Many will not stop for the phone call
instead using the radio approach out of Fisk. They will be heavy and slower
than 90 knots.
I had to pull a T-18 out of a bean field that ran over a Cessna 172. The
T-18 bent his aileron and landed at about 150 to maintain control. The
Cessna looked like a 4 slot toaster. Fortunately all the slots missed spars
and struts so he landed safely at Oshkosh.
My point is that you don't know the mix that you might have to fly behind at
Oshkosh. Your RV fortunately can fly 130 knots. So this is an option that
not all planes enjoy. Fly the approach that you feel most comfortable. You
are supposed to enjoy the convention, to be able to laugh after landing so
do what is safe for you.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
> You are all scaring me who are promoting that 90 in an RV is slow. I have
> over 500 hours in a -6 with a CS prop and over 400 in a -4 with a wood
prop.
> I always fly the pattern at 80 mph and have never had a stall spin
accident
> yet, and I have been in some high density patterns (Merced, Arlington).
All
> you have to do is watch what you are doing. Don't they teach airspeed
> control any more? As for Glasair and Lancair pilots, go fly the higher
> pattern, No one will laugh at you.........
>
> Jim
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> To:
> Subject: Fw: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
>
> >
> > "Any RV that flys the
> > higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
the
> > ground."
> >
> > WHY would anyone get laughed at by making a safe approach? Some Oshkosh
> > approaches have turned deadly when the pilot could not slow as the plane
> in
> > front. We had 3 stall spin accidents in one year. Another year, a jet
> pilot
> > used the slow approach, had a forced landing on the streets of Oshkosh
and
> > his wife was burned to death in the resulting fire.
> >
> > ALL of the these people would be alive today, if they had used the
"high"
> > pattern.
> >
> > Laughed at? I think not but even a lot of laughter is better than the
best
> > funeral.
> >
> > The idea is to fly safe! To arrive in one piece.
> >
> > Anyone that laughs at those practicing safe flight need to take another
> look
> > at their safety practices.
> >
> > Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
> > Safety Programs Editor - TC
> > EAA Sport Pilot
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
> > To:
> > Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> >
> >
> > >
> > > YES it is WRONG.
> > >
> > > The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
> > > overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your
> test
> > > flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
> > > environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
> > engine
> > > running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does
not
> > > cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
> > >
> > > I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and
headed
> > > back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
> > > ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
> > >
> > > WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride
> gets
> > > interesting.
> > >
> > > The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain
> 135
> > > knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys
> the
> > > higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
> the
> > > ground.
> > >
> > > Gary A. Sobek
> > > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> > > 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> > > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
> > >
> > >
> > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> > > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
> > > the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if
able,"
> > and
> > > an
> > > RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
> > > arrival
> > > instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
> > > performance
> > > turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of
> which
> > > describes
> > > your typical RV.
> > >
> > >
> > > I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from
the
> 2
> > > altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable
of
> > > flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility
factor
> a
> > > little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
> > highlight
> > > the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster
> they
> > > are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be
flying
> > the
> > > lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
> > string
> > > trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
> > considering
> > > safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more
> comfortable
> > > at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
> > >
> > > Dave Ford
> > > RV6
> > >
> > > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Henry Hochberg <aeroncadoc(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
I haven't been following this thread, so forgive me if this has been
covered before. How about organizing an RV caravan like the Mooney and
Bonanza guys and gals do. The biggest benefit...you get your own landing
slot where no other planes are allowed to use the runway at the time.
You stage somewhere (like Madison) and fly in trail like the Mooneys or
in formation like the Bonanzas. Of course the RVers already all park and
camp together so that wouldn't be an added bennie as it is for those
other groups, but it makes the arrival easier.
Only other downside....it's a huge logistical undertaking needing lots
of volunteer time. But it's a great way to go.
Henry H
N252MK (Mooney) and N72224 (RV-6)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh and thanks to Galley and crew |
That would make a heck of a lot more sense than the mass Bonanza arrival. Don't
get me wrong but I thought Bonanzas and Mooneys were production airplanes and
I thought EAA was about EXPERIMENTAL aircraft. A mass RV, Whitman, Lancair,
or even Hummelbird arrival would make a lot more sense to me.
By the way, be sure to stop by and tell Cy Galley what a great job he and his people
are doing. Last year at OSH, I lost a brake on landing. Turned out my
cheap plastic brake line was just barely touching the wheel pant bracket which
was just barely touching my brake disc. The line melted and then blew under
the pressure. Cy's patch to my brake line is still holding! It took some begging,
pleading, and big sad puppy dog eyes to make them drop everything and fix
MY problem. But Cy did drop everything to drive me into town and get the needed
parts at Napa for less than a dollar. Then HE installed it for me and rebled
my brake lines. All right there in the grass in homebuilt camping. They
are a great bunch.
Henry Hochberg wrote:
I haven't been following this thread, so forgive me if this has been
covered before. How about organizing an RV caravan like the Mooney and
Bonanza guys and gals do. The biggest benefit...you get your own landing
slot where no other planes are allowed to use the runway at the time.
You stage somewhere (like Madison) and fly in trail like the Mooneys or
in formation like the Bonanzas. Of course the RVers already all park and
camp together so that wouldn't be an added bennie as it is for those
other groups, but it makes the arrival easier.
Only other downside....it's a huge logistical undertaking needing lots
of volunteer time. But it's a great way to go.
Henry H
N252MK (Mooney) and N72224 (RV-6)
>
>
tion
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
| From: | czechsix(at)juno.com |
Just out of curiosity, does anyone share my concern about putting too
much stress on the rollbar by pulling on it (with or without handles)?
Perhaps the -6/7/9 series is more rigid due to the brace that goes up to
the center of the roll bar, but on my -8A I noticed before glassing in my
windshield that the roll bar would flex quite a bit by pushing/pulling on
it. I remember thinking at the time that this would imply quite a bit of
stress being transferred to the plexiglass via the screws that hold it to
the roll bar. Sounds to me like a crack waiting to happen. But maybe
extensive experience has proven that this is not a valid concern????
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D painting fuselage...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bolt on roll bar handles? |
The center brace on the -6/7/9 makes it immobile and a non-issue.
>
> Just out of curiosity, does anyone share my concern about
> putting too much stress on the rollbar by pulling on it (with
> or without handles)?
> Perhaps the -6/7/9 series is more rigid due to the brace that
> goes up to the center of the roll bar, but on my -8A I
> noticed before glassing in my windshield that the roll bar
> would flex quite a bit by pushing/pulling on it. I remember
> thinking at the time that this would imply quite a bit of
> stress being transferred to the plexiglass via the screws
> that hold it to the roll bar. Sounds to me like a crack
> waiting to happen. But maybe extensive experience has proven
> that this is not a valid concern????
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D painting fuselage...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shemp" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
Im guessing doing 135kts all the way in will also cause some shock cooling
problems.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
> YES it is WRONG.
>
> The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
> overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your test
> flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
> environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
engine
> running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
> cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
>
> I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
> back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
> ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
>
> WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride gets
> interesting.
>
> The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain 135
> knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys the
> higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on the
> ground.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
>
>
> >but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
> the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able,"
and
> an
> RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
> arrival
> instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
> performance
> turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of which
> describes
> your typical RV.
>
>
> I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the 2
> altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
> flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor a
> little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
highlight
> the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster they
> are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying
the
> lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
string
> trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
considering
> safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more comfortable
> at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
>
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shemp" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
Drop some flaps.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
> Tell that to Ben Moyle who dug a deep hole in the ground with a
> stall/spin on final in the 'slow' lane a couple of year ago in his
> Glasair III. The GIII can fly at 90 Kts and not overheat but it's not
> safe.
>
> Next time you don't have much to do, establish yourself at 5,000 agl and
> 90 Kts. Trim things up so everything is stable, Pull the power to idle
> and wait for 3 seconds (the average time the FAA gives the pilot to
> react to an emergency). Now regain control of the airplane and assume
> normal glide attitude. Note your altitude loss. If you have a CS prop
> the number will shock you. Low and slow is a killer.
>
> Look for me at 2,300 msl and 135 Kts.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
>
> YES it is WRONG.
>
> The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
> overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your
> test
> flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in all expected
> environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one hour with the
> engine
> running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does not
>
> cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
>
> I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and headed
>
> back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not following the
> ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
>
> WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing 90. The ride
> gets
> interesting.
>
> The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If unable, maintain
> 135
> knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any RV that flys
> the
> higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
> the
> ground.
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
>
>
> >but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
> the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if able,"
> and
> an
> RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts. The warbird
> arrival
> instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
> performance
> turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of
> which
> describes
> your typical RV.
>
>
> I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from the
> 2
> altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable of
> flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility factor
> a
> little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
> highlight
> the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can fly faster
> they
> are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be flying
> the
> lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
> string
> trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
> considering
> safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more
> comfortable
> at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
>
> Dave Ford
> RV6
>
> http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
>
>
> =
> =
> =
> =
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
Cy,
Thanks for your viewpoint here.
Last year, I flew as "lead" for a "Flight of Four" RVs into OSH. We were
**VERY** happy that after the hold, they left us at the higher altitude (we
had pre-chosen that before having to hold for many laps). "Exceprt for RV
Flight of Four, I want everybody at 1800 feet and 90 kts" was what we heard.
With the mix of planes ***and pilots*** that were out there, I was glad not
to be in the slower mix and felt that all was much safer for all involved. I
saw an "EZ" that **SHOULD** have been up higher. He was wallering around it
seems trying to stay in the air. All it takes in such circumstance is for
someone to show up out of sequence, blasting through with seemingly no
regard for the NOTAMs and *seemingly* not listening to the radio. This
**DID** happen as we were holding. A Bonanza (no offense to anyone) cam
screaming along, not entering the hold, not at speed, and awfully close ...
too close for my comfort. Fortunately, our flight (which was in trail) was
with enough speed that maneuvering out of the way was not a problem.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of cgalley
> Sent: Saturday, July 17, 2004 10:29 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
>
> I have no doubt that you can fly an RV at 90 knots but there are incoming
> planes that use the low pattern that cannot maintain that speed.
> A J-3 comes
> to mind. They are more like 70 knots.
>
> Now you are going to say that they should be using the no radio approach.
> Maybe so but two things come to mind. By NOTAM this year to come in No
> Radio, you have to phone ahead for permission. Why? because most low and
> slow pilots now carry a hand held. Many will not stop for the phone call
> instead using the radio approach out of Fisk. They will be heavy
> and slower
> than 90 knots.
>
> I had to pull a T-18 out of a bean field that ran over a Cessna 172. The
> T-18 bent his aileron and landed at about 150 to maintain control. The
> Cessna looked like a 4 slot toaster. Fortunately all the slots
> missed spars
> and struts so he landed safely at Oshkosh.
>
> My point is that you don't know the mix that you might have to
> fly behind at
> Oshkosh. Your RV fortunately can fly 130 knots. So this is an option that
> not all planes enjoy. Fly the approach that you feel most
> comfortable. You
> are supposed to enjoy the convention, to be able to laugh after landing so
> do what is safe for you.
>
> Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
> Safety Programs Editor - TC
> EAA Sport Pilot
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
>
> >
> > You are all scaring me who are promoting that 90 in an RV is
> slow. I have
> > over 500 hours in a -6 with a CS prop and over 400 in a -4 with a wood
> prop.
> > I always fly the pattern at 80 mph and have never had a stall spin
> accident
> > yet, and I have been in some high density patterns (Merced, Arlington).
> All
> > you have to do is watch what you are doing. Don't they teach airspeed
> > control any more? As for Glasair and Lancair pilots, go fly the higher
> > pattern, No one will laugh at you.........
> >
> > Jim
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> > To:
> > Subject: Fw: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> >
> >
> > >
> > > "Any RV that flys the
> > > higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when he gets on
> the
> > > ground."
> > >
> > > WHY would anyone get laughed at by making a safe approach?
> Some Oshkosh
> > > approaches have turned deadly when the pilot could not slow
> as the plane
> > in
> > > front. We had 3 stall spin accidents in one year. Another year, a jet
> > pilot
> > > used the slow approach, had a forced landing on the streets of Oshkosh
> and
> > > his wife was burned to death in the resulting fire.
> > >
> > > ALL of the these people would be alive today, if they had used the
> "high"
> > > pattern.
> > >
> > > Laughed at? I think not but even a lot of laughter is better than the
> best
> > > funeral.
> > >
> > > The idea is to fly safe! To arrive in one piece.
> > >
> > > Anyone that laughs at those practicing safe flight need to
> take another
> > look
> > > at their safety practices.
> > >
> > > Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
> > > Safety Programs Editor - TC
> > > EAA Sport Pilot
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
> > > To:
> > > Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > YES it is WRONG.
> > > >
> > > > The notam is clear to me. Fly the 90 Kt 1,800 in an RV. If your RV
> > > > overheats, you should stay at home and finish your test flying. Your
> > test
> > > > flying is not finished till your airplane can operate in
> all expected
> > > > environments. I sat on the taxi way at Oshkosh for one
> hour with the
> > > engine
> > > > running in line waiting to depart in 2000. If it your airplane does
> not
> > > > cool at 90 in fight, you will over heat when you taxi for departure.
> > > >
> > > > I got behind an ULTRALIGHT one year. I broke out to the West and
> headed
> > > > back to RIPON while ATC was chewing the guy out for not
> following the
> > > > ULTRALIGHT arrival procedures. Flew behind a CUB another year.
> > > >
> > > > WATCH out for the WAKE turbulance from a C172 when doing
> 90. The ride
> > gets
> > > > interesting.
> > > >
> > > > The notam says: Maintain 90 knots and 1,800' MSL. If
> unable, maintain
> > 135
> > > > knots and 2,300' MSL. ALL RVs can maintain 90 knots. Any
> RV that flys
> > the
> > > > higher pattern gets laughed at by all the other RV'ers when
> he gets on
> > the
> > > > ground.
> > > >
> > > > Gary A. Sobek
> > > > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> > > > 1,524 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> > > > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > ----Original Message Follows----
> > > > From: "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net>
> > > > To:
> > > > Subject: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
> > > > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2004 23:24:15 -0500
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >but the NOTAM I'm holding in my hand seems specific about flying
> > > > the VFR approach from Ripon to Fisk at 1800 MSL and 90 knots "if
> able,"
> > > and
> > > > an
> > > > RV is certainly capable of comfortable cruise at 90 kts.
> The warbird
> > > > arrival
> > > > instructions are more explicit, stating they are restricted to high
> > > > performance
> > > > turbojets, twin turboprops and warbirds capable of 130 kts, none of
> > which
> > > > describes
> > > > your typical RV.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I believe the warbird arrival is a separate arrival instruction from
> the
> > 2
> > > > altitude choices given to experimentals. I know the RVs are capable
> of
> > > > flying slower than the 90 knots but it does change the visibility
> factor
> > a
> > > > little and cooling issues can be a concern(?). The Notam seems to
> > > highlight
> > > > the "speed restrictions" noting that although aircraft can
> fly faster
> > they
> > > > are looking for understandable cooperation. My concern would be
> flying
> > > the
> > > > lower slower altitude and picturing myself behind a "broomstick with
> > > string
> > > > trimmer engine" flying at his max. speed of 50 to 60 knots. So
> > > considering
> > > > safety, cooling, visibility, is it wrong to fly at and be more
> > comfortable
> > > > at a faster, higher altitude for arrival?
> > > >
> > > > Dave Ford
> > > > RV6
> > > >
> > > > http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
Huh, flexing to much???
I needed it to bend a little and I could do pull-up's on it and hardly
get it to move at 240 lbs.
Now that it is permanently bolted in place it's even stiffer.
Gert
Greg Young wrote:
>
> The center brace on the -6/7/9 makes it immobile and a non-issue.
>
>
>
>>
>>Just out of curiosity, does anyone share my concern about
>>putting too much stress on the rollbar by pulling on it (with
>>or without handles)?
>>Perhaps the -6/7/9 series is more rigid due to the brace that
>>goes up to the center of the roll bar, but on my -8A I
>>noticed before glassing in my windshield that the roll bar
>>would flex quite a bit by pushing/pulling on it. I remember
>>thinking at the time that this would imply quite a bit of
>>stress being transferred to the plexiglass via the screws
>>that hold it to the roll bar. Sounds to me like a crack
>>waiting to happen. But maybe extensive experience has proven
>>that this is not a valid concern????
>>
>>--Mark Navratil
>>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>>RV-8A N2D painting fuselage...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
cgalley wrote:
>
>I have no doubt that you can fly an RV at 90 knots but there are incoming
>planes that use the low pattern that cannot maintain that speed. A J-3 comes
>to mind. They are more like 70 knots.
>
>Now you are going to say that they should be using the no radio approach.
>Maybe so but two things come to mind. By NOTAM this year to come in No
>Radio, you have to phone ahead for permission. Why? because most low and
>slow pilots now carry a hand held. Many will not stop for the phone call
>instead using the radio approach out of Fisk. They will be heavy and slower
>than 90 knots.
>
>I had to pull a T-18 out of a bean field that ran over a Cessna 172. The
>T-18 bent his aileron and landed at about 150 to maintain control. The
>Cessna looked like a 4 slot toaster. Fortunately all the slots missed spars
>and struts so he landed safely at Oshkosh.
>
>My point is that you don't know the mix that you might have to fly behind at
>Oshkosh. Your RV fortunately can fly 130 knots. So this is an option that
>not all planes enjoy. Fly the approach that you feel most comfortable. You
>are supposed to enjoy the convention, to be able to laugh after landing so
>do what is safe for you.
>
>Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
>Safety Programs Editor - TC
>EAA Sport Pilot
>
But:
It *is* a NOTAM, & it *does* say 90 kts *if able*. An RV is obviously
'able'. Are you suggesting that an RV pilot that isn't 'able' to fly one
safely at 90 kts should mix it up with King Airs & Citations?
An RV can't land (at least not very gracefully) at 85-100 knots. Most
religions have some variation of the 'Golden Rule', saying to treat
others as you would like to be treated. I've followed C-140's & Aeroncas
into OSH & been frustrated when they weren't flying the 'pattern' at
full throttle to stay at 90 kts. If we fly the 'fast' procedure,
consider what those King Airs & Citations are thinking about us for
touching down at 50 kts & forcing them to go around to avoid running
over us. Do you really think it would be safe to mix RV's & jets on the
same runway at OSH? Do the EAA & FAA really condone this?
As Safety Programs Editor, perhaps you should be pointing out to the
officials that it isn't really safe to force a mix of antique/classic
style planes that won't go 90 kts full throttle with quicker aircraft.
It would also be good if they would put a lot more emphasis on reminding
the C-172, etc. drivers that the 90 kts mentioned in the NOTAM isn't
optional for them. It would be a pretty safe bet that the T-18 wouldn't
have eaten the C-172 if the 172 had been flying the required 90 kts.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
Gosh, guys. I'm glad I put my two cents in about my twisted rudder. It's
raised some good discussion. Anyway, I used a simple jig and got almost all
of the twist out. I did leave in a couple of rivets that may have allowed
me to pull it all out; but, I can live with the 1/16" twist on this one.
It' s a lot better than the bow in the trailing edge of the rudder being
replaced. Besides, I know my -6A isn't nearly that true in places, even
though it was totally jig built. It goes pretty well with all of its flaws.
:-) Now, I need to rivet the trailing edge. Hopefully, it'll be more
simple than getting that twist out!
There is one little concern that I have. If a somewhat seasoned building,
like this is my third RV, can build in twist that easily, I wonder how many
are taking the suggestion of not jigging seriously, building without one,
and never checking to see if the control surface, or whatever, is really
straight. Hmmm. When I did mine, I had clecoes on the spar, the trialing
edge, and the ribs. With the twist, there was no oil canning because there
was just enough give in the holes that none showed. Had I not checked, I
could have built a crooked rudder that would have looked just fine.
Jim Sears in KY
RV-6A N198JS (Scooter)
RV-7A #70317
EAA Technical Counselor
EAA Flight Advisor
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
The T-18 cut in at a much higher speed than the line of traffic from what I
was told. The Cessna was in trail with several other planes.
You aren't landing at 130 nor even 90 knots. That is the approach speed.
The real problem is that most pilots never ever come close to another plane
in the pattern most of the rest of the year. At Oshkosh, the spacing is
tight. No side by side nor overtaking. It would be nice if everyone could
fly 90 knots but realistically, that is impossible. I have seen controllers
send a commercial flight around when North Central was still flying into
Oshkosh! They will do the same with anyone that tries to bust in.
In the 33 years I have been going to Oshkosh, I have flown in about 5 times.
I would not do it solo if I had my choice. I have flown out on the Vintage
Fly-out in my own plane and a couple of times with a friend. I can tell you
that there are always pilots that don't follow the rules. It is
disconcerting to see the business end of a P51 climbing right at you when
you are in the pattern, knowing that he can't see where he is going.
So be vigilant, keep your eyeballs on a swivel both coming and going. Come
and leave the convention; safely!
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: flying to Oshkosh
>
> cgalley wrote:
>
> >
> >I have no doubt that you can fly an RV at 90 knots but there are incoming
> >planes that use the low pattern that cannot maintain that speed. A J-3
comes
> >to mind. They are more like 70 knots.
> >
> >Now you are going to say that they should be using the no radio approach.
> >Maybe so but two things come to mind. By NOTAM this year to come in No
> >Radio, you have to phone ahead for permission. Why? because most low and
> >slow pilots now carry a hand held. Many will not stop for the phone call
> >instead using the radio approach out of Fisk. They will be heavy and
slower
> >than 90 knots.
> >
> >I had to pull a T-18 out of a bean field that ran over a Cessna 172. The
> >T-18 bent his aileron and landed at about 150 to maintain control. The
> >Cessna looked like a 4 slot toaster. Fortunately all the slots missed
spars
> >and struts so he landed safely at Oshkosh.
> >
> >My point is that you don't know the mix that you might have to fly behind
at
> >Oshkosh. Your RV fortunately can fly 130 knots. So this is an option that
> >not all planes enjoy. Fly the approach that you feel most comfortable.
You
> >are supposed to enjoy the convention, to be able to laugh after landing
so
> >do what is safe for you.
> >
> >Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
> >Safety Programs Editor - TC
> >EAA Sport Pilot
> >
>
> But:
>
> It *is* a NOTAM, & it *does* say 90 kts *if able*. An RV is obviously
> 'able'. Are you suggesting that an RV pilot that isn't 'able' to fly one
> safely at 90 kts should mix it up with King Airs & Citations?
>
> An RV can't land (at least not very gracefully) at 85-100 knots. Most
> religions have some variation of the 'Golden Rule', saying to treat
> others as you would like to be treated. I've followed C-140's & Aeroncas
> into OSH & been frustrated when they weren't flying the 'pattern' at
> full throttle to stay at 90 kts. If we fly the 'fast' procedure,
> consider what those King Airs & Citations are thinking about us for
> touching down at 50 kts & forcing them to go around to avoid running
> over us. Do you really think it would be safe to mix RV's & jets on the
> same runway at OSH? Do the EAA & FAA really condone this?
>
> As Safety Programs Editor, perhaps you should be pointing out to the
> officials that it isn't really safe to force a mix of antique/classic
> style planes that won't go 90 kts full throttle with quicker aircraft.
> It would also be good if they would put a lot more emphasis on reminding
> the C-172, etc. drivers that the 90 kts mentioned in the NOTAM isn't
> optional for them. It would be a pretty safe bet that the T-18 wouldn't
> have eaten the C-172 if the 172 had been flying the required 90 kts.
>
> Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
copy that!
----Original Message Follows----
From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 11:28:28 -0500
Huh, flexing to much???
I needed it to bend a little and I could do pull-up's on it and hardly
get it to move at 240 lbs.
Now that it is permanently bolted in place it's even stiffer.
Gert
Greg Young wrote:
>
> The center brace on the -6/7/9 makes it immobile and a non-issue.
>
>
>
>>
>>Just out of curiosity, does anyone share my concern about
>>putting too much stress on the rollbar by pulling on it (with
>>or without handles)?
>>Perhaps the -6/7/9 series is more rigid due to the brace that
>>goes up to the center of the roll bar, but on my -8A I
>>noticed before glassing in my windshield that the roll bar
>>would flex quite a bit by pushing/pulling on it. I remember
>>thinking at the time that this would imply quite a bit of
>>stress being transferred to the plexiglass via the screws
>>that hold it to the roll bar. Sounds to me like a crack
>>waiting to happen. But maybe extensive experience has proven
>>that this is not a valid concern????
>>
>>--Mark Navratil
>>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>>RV-8A N2D painting fuselage...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lucky macy" <luckymacy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
no. i have seen them installed in 8s and the folks swear by them.
----Original Message Follows----
From: czechsix(at)juno.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2004 10:15:44 -0500
Just out of curiosity, does anyone share my concern about putting too
much stress on the rollbar by pulling on it (with or without handles)?
Perhaps the -6/7/9 series is more rigid due to the brace that goes up to
the center of the roll bar, but on my -8A I noticed before glassing in my
windshield that the roll bar would flex quite a bit by pushing/pulling on
it. I remember thinking at the time that this would imply quite a bit of
stress being transferred to the plexiglass via the screws that hold it to
the roll bar. Sounds to me like a crack waiting to happen. But maybe
extensive experience has proven that this is not a valid concern????
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D painting fuselage...
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | flying to Oshkosh |
Flying the higher pattern is no guarantee that you won't still have to mix
it up with a wide performance mix - everyone comes down on the same 3
runways. One year I got sequenced ahead of a P-51 in my Citabria. I'm sure
it was unnerving for both of us. If you're uncomfortable flying at 90 kts
with the slow traffic, my suggestion is to time your arrival to the slow(er)
days and/or time of day. If there's a hold, go land at Appleton or Fond du
Lac and wait it out. Holds unleash an unbelievable furball with all the
impatient types trying to cut in on the guys following the procedure. There
are planned holds for the Bonanza, Mooney and T-34 mass arrivals plus the
Quantas 747, military fly-bys and who knows what else. I've arrived on the
Sunday before for the past two years (to get a good camping spot) and
traffic has been very light. Monday afternoon is certainly bad as is any day
just before or after the airshow. Do what you have to stay comfortable and
safe but don't miss the show.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
Do the brakes actually work as designed per the plans for an RV-4?
Everything I have built has been exactly per the plans and is installed
correctly. I tried to bleed them today and wasted lots of brake fluid. I got
good air free flow but I did not have a solid pedal. Both sides rudder
pedals moved full travel, stop to stop, when the brakes were applied, but
the master cylinders never pumped up. I took the master cylinders loose from
the rudder pedals and operated them by hand and found that they were
actually pumping up correctly. The problem is that the rudder pedals do not
allow enough travel for the master cylinders to actually pump. How much
travel are you suppose to have? I've got maybe an inch or inch and a half of
travel. Do I need to alter the system where they cylinders do not fully
extend out, there by taking up some of the "slack" in the system so that
they will start pumping with less movement? Will this create a dragging
brake, especially when rudder is applied at full travel? Am I the only one
that's had this problem?
Thanks
Jerry Isler
RV4 N455J
Donalsonville, GA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rebibb(at)comcast.net> |
I installed mine per the plans and they worked fine.
In order to bleed the breaks I had to undo the cylinders and hold the lower
end "up" above the normal top end of the cylinder and pump flius from the
botom. Other wise all you are doing is pushing air.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Brakes
>
> Do the brakes actually work as designed per the plans for an RV-4?
> Everything I have built has been exactly per the plans and is installed
> correctly. I tried to bleed them today and wasted lots of brake fluid. I
got
> good air free flow but I did not have a solid pedal. Both sides rudder
> pedals moved full travel, stop to stop, when the brakes were applied, but
> the master cylinders never pumped up. I took the master cylinders loose
from
> the rudder pedals and operated them by hand and found that they were
> actually pumping up correctly. The problem is that the rudder pedals do
not
> allow enough travel for the master cylinders to actually pump. How much
> travel are you suppose to have? I've got maybe an inch or inch and a half
of
> travel. Do I need to alter the system where they cylinders do not fully
> extend out, there by taking up some of the "slack" in the system so that
> they will start pumping with less movement? Will this create a dragging
> brake, especially when rudder is applied at full travel? Am I the only one
> that's had this problem?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry Isler
> RV4 N455J
> Donalsonville, GA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Hi Jerry -
Did you bleed the brakes from the top, or did you use a pressurized system
and pump them from the bottom up to the reservoir? You will have better luck
pressurizing them from the calipers to the reservoir.
Either way you need to be pumping the master cylinders while bleeding to help
get the air out of the cylinders. When operating properly, the brake pedals
will move about 1/8" (give or take as I did not measure it). They do not move
much at all. If you are getting alot of movement or a mushy feel, you do not
have all the air out.
]
I hope this helps.
-Mike Kraus
N223RV RV-4 Flying
N213RV RV-10 Empennage complete, working on tailcone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
I built mine per plans and they function just fine. I'm I can't be of help figuring
out what your brake problem may be.
Do the brakes actually work as designed per the plans for an RV-4?
Everything I have built has been exactly per the plans and is installed
correctly. I tried to bleed them today and wasted lots of brake fluid. I got
good air free flow but I did not have a solid pedal. Both sides rudder
pedals moved full travel, stop to stop, when the brakes were applied, but
the master cylinders never pumped up. I took the master cylinders loose from
the rudder pedals and operated them by hand and found that they were
actually pumping up correctly. The problem is that the rudder pedals do not
allow enough travel for the master cylinders to actually pump. How much
travel are you suppose to have? I've got maybe an inch or inch and a half of
travel. Do I need to alter the system where they cylinders do not fully
extend out, there by taking up some of the "slack" in the system so that
they will start pumping with less movement? Will this create a dragging
brake, especially when rudder is applied at full travel? Am I the only one
that's had this problem?
Thanks
Jerry Isler
RV4 N455J
Donalsonville, GA
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Now I remember. We used a hudson weed sprayer with a fitting on the end that fit
the nipple on the bottom of the brake caliper. Loosen the zert a bit and pump
up the Hudson. When the red gets to the brake fluid resevoir, tighten the
zert. Repeat on the other side. Worked well. Some use adapted oil squirters
too.
Bibb"
I installed mine per the plans and they worked fine.
In order to bleed the breaks I had to undo the cylinders and hold the lower
end "up" above the normal top end of the cylinder and pump flius from the
botom. Other wise all you are doing is pushing air.
RB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Isler"
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Brakes
>
> Do the brakes actually work as designed per the plans for an RV-4?
> Everything I have built has been exactly per the plans and is installed
> correctly. I tried to bleed them today and wasted lots of brake fluid. I
got
> good air free flow but I did not have a solid pedal. Both sides rudder
> pedals moved full travel, stop to stop, when the brakes were applied, but
> the master cylinders never pumped up. I took the master cylinders loose
from
> the rudder pedals and operated them by hand and found that they were
> actually pumping up correctly. The problem is that the rudder pedals do
not
> allow enough travel for the master cylinders to actually pump. How much
> travel are you suppose to have? I've got maybe an inch or inch and a half
of
> travel. Do I need to alter the system where they cylinders do not fully
> extend out, there by taking up some of the "slack" in the system so that
> they will start pumping with less movement? Will this create a dragging
> brake, especially when rudder is applied at full travel? Am I the only one
> that's had this problem?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry Isler
> RV4 N455J
> Donalsonville, GA
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Jerry,
As others have noted, it is really necessary to remove the brake master
cylinders from the pedals, turn them right side up, bleed, then invert and
re-install. They will not bleed properly while they are in the position as
indicated in the early RV-4 plans (springs pointed down). This is also
common on some Pipers that were designed with the masters installed upside
down. I had an experienced A&P mechanic tell me once that the only way to
bleed the Piper brakes was to remove the cylinders and turn them 180 degrees
(unless you have pressure bleeding equipment).
Or, you can modify your brake pedals slightly and install the master
cylinders right side up. In the later RV-4's, the plans were changed to
right-side-up cylinders. I ended up modifying mine about 6 years ago and I
have had no problems since then plus bleeding is now a piece of cake.
Contact me off line if you have any interest and I'll send pictures plus I
have a some sketches and a written description of the mod that I can e-mail
you.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 All Flying
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net>
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Brakes
>
> Do the brakes actually work as designed per the plans for an RV-4?
> Everything I have built has been exactly per the plans and is installed
> correctly. I tried to bleed them today and wasted lots of brake fluid. I
got
> good air free flow but I did not have a solid pedal. Both sides rudder
> pedals moved full travel, stop to stop, when the brakes were applied, but
> the master cylinders never pumped up. I took the master cylinders loose
from
> the rudder pedals and operated them by hand and found that they were
> actually pumping up correctly. The problem is that the rudder pedals do
not
> allow enough travel for the master cylinders to actually pump. How much
> travel are you suppose to have? I've got maybe an inch or inch and a half
of
> travel. Do I need to alter the system where they cylinders do not fully
> extend out, there by taking up some of the "slack" in the system so that
> they will start pumping with less movement? Will this create a dragging
> brake, especially when rudder is applied at full travel? Am I the only one
> that's had this problem?
>
> Thanks
>
> Jerry Isler
> RV4 N455J
> Donalsonville, GA
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
>An RV is not a Glasair III. IT (the RV) can outperform the Glasair III
at
>SLOW speeds. ANY RV pilot that cannot fly the approach to OSH at 90
should
>not be flying to AirVenture.
Agreed. Or maybe anywhere else, for that matter. Didn't you do this on
your flight testing? Do you do other things with your airplane than
blast around from place to place? Like practice? How well do you know
the edges of your performance envelope, especially slow flight? How
slow, what bank before it lets loose? Hmmmm
One of the many reasons I built an RV was for the wide performance
envelope. These airplanes fly GREAT at slow speeds. That wing just HANGS
on. The only reason they wouldn't fly well is the pilot has not been out
practicing slow flight. The approach to OSH is NO DIFFERENT in speeds
than you should be using in your pattern at your home field. Do you
blast into the home pattern at 135 knots? Probably not. At least you
shouldn't be; you will take forever to slow down and you are traveling
too fast for most other traffic in the pattern. 90 knots is not slow for
an RV but you need to have practiced slow flight, and sometime before
you leave for the trip, as well as other realms of flight, to be good at
it and feel comfortable with it. And you should. Engine failure at slow
speed? My best rate of glide is 5 knots slower than this "slow" 90 knots
so I would have to slow down further, not speed up. With full flaps? How
else are you going to land in an emergency? Have you practiced putting
on and taking off flaps while on your emergency glide (you DO practice
emergency procedures including slow and dirty, don't you?)? Me oh my. I
was out several months ago flying formation right wing with an 85hp J-3
Cub, for crying out loud. Including inside and outside turns. Was I
hyperaware? You bet. But never felt like I was on the edge. It was 20
knots faster than my stall speed. Practice, practice, practice. I almost
built a Glasair taildragger. Thanks, Jim, for talking me out of that.
NOT that there is anything wrong with that, although there must be
reasons you don't see many of them around. I just like my RV better.
Flies fast, flies slow. One of the many reasons I fly an RV; I LOVE this
airplane.
SO: I'll be in the lower not so slow altitude, flying right along with
most other people, not worried someone is roaring up behind me at 145
knots. If someone is ahead going slower, I'll make adjustments. I have
NEVER felt uncomfortable with that procedure at OSH. You have to look
around; shouldn't you always be looking around?
You can never know too much about your airplane and your ability to fly
it. Suzie Q and I have learned quite a bit in 6+ years of flitting
about. She loves to go to OSH and show herself off. See you there.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Practice, practice, practice................getting to know you; getting
to know all about you..............
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
Jerry,
The piston MUST fully extend or the brake will drag.
Dave Bristol
EAA Technical Counselor
Jerry Isler wrote:
> Do I need to alter the system where they cylinders do not fully
>extend out, there by taking up some of the "slack" in the system so that
>they will start pumping with less movement? Will this create a dragging
>brake, especially when rudder is applied at full travel? Am I the only one
>that's had this problem?
>
>Thanks
>
>Jerry Isler
>RV4 N455J
>Donalsonville, GA
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
To further expand on what I have now that I'm back from the Outback
(Steakhouse that is).
The master cylinders are installed springs up and all of the components
are built and installed according to the plans . There is about an inch of
travel on the shaft of the master cylinder before it starts to engage or
build up pressure. This amount of travel allows the brake pedal to move full
stroke, i.e.. from the neutral, at rest position, to the fully depressed
position before the master cylinder starts to build up pressure. Should the
master cylinder start to build pressure before it strokes this far? If so,
that would solve my problem. If the master cylinder would start to develop
pressure as soon as the shaft is depressed it would work. Is that the way it
should be?
Jerry Isler
RV-4 N455J
Donalsonville, GA
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Brakes
>
> Now I remember. We used a hudson weed sprayer with a fitting on the end
that fit the nipple on the bottom of the brake caliper. Loosen the zert a
bit and pump up the Hudson. When the red gets to the brake fluid resevoir,
tighten the zert. Repeat on the other side. Worked well. Some use adapted
oil squirters too.
>
"Richard Bibb"
>
> I installed mine per the plans and they worked fine.
>
> In order to bleed the breaks I had to undo the cylinders and hold the
lower
> end "up" above the normal top end of the cylinder and pump flius from the
> botom. Other wise all you are doing is pushing air.
>
> RB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Flying to Oshkosh |
I'll start out by saying that I've never flown into Osh.
I don't really have a valid opinion about which altitude you should use.
The higher/faster one sounds like less hassle, simply because 90 kts sounds
almost like a maximum for this approach, not a minimum.
90 Kts in an RV is Very Very easy, and comfortable. Just a bit of flaps
helps bring the nose down for a more normal sight picture.
Like someone else said before, if and your aircraft can't fly around
comfortably at 90 kts, you shouldn't be going to Osh. With that said, the
human side of the problem is easy. Go practice. Get some altitude, do the
whole clearing turn thing, and practice flying around at 90 kts. Try it no
flaps, try it with a little flap. Write down the RPM/MP combo necessary to
do this.
Then do something you probably haven't done in a while if you're
uncomfortable at 90 kts, stall the airplane, then do it again. Practice
lifting the wing with RUDDER only. Stall it with flaps, without, with a
little power, etc.
Practice a descent at 500 fpm at 80 kts, then 70 kts. Just to know it in
case a cub ends up in front of you.
This is basic stuff people, and well within the perfromance envelope of an
RV. I fly a power off short final in my '4 at 70 mph (61 kts or so), so I
can tell you that the plane will not drop out of the sky.
The published stall speed of the RV-4 is 54 mph. So I'm hardly on the
jagged edge.
Finally, the situation with the gentleman in the glassair was a tragedy.
But he crashed and died for only 1 reason. He accepted a situation he
shouldn't have. He could have always gone around. Please don't flame me
for stating this fairly obvious fact. We've all screwed up, in some cases,
but for the grace of God, it didn't kill us. But lets at least learn
something from this tragedy. He didn't die because he chose the slow
approach, he died because he did not properly excercise his authority as PIC
and go around.
Finally, finally, really. I've read that many of those who arive at Osh
haven't read the notam. That amazes me. My thought on planning to fly to
osh, is to read the notam, AND assume that no one else has. i.e. fly
defensively.
Safe flying. (work is getting in the way of flying to Osh again this year)
Don Mei
Discover the best of the best at MSN Luxury Living. http://lexus.msn.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Heads Up
In 2002 I bought a new XP-360 from Superior Air Parts which was sent to Aero Sport
Power to be built up and test run. Both are great companies and both did
a great job for me. Unfortunately, Aero Sport Power is in Canada and when my
engine was sent back to me, it had to clear US Customs. Well guess what, US
Customs sent the sales slip to the NC Department of Revenue and now I have a bill
from NC for Sales Tax not paid to NC. With penalty and interest the Tax due
is over $2,600 on a $22,000 engine.
If I had it to do over I would use a US company and avoid the possibility of US
Customs forwarding information to my state.
Steve Glasgow
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Esten Spears" <ewspears(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Bolt on roll bar handles?
> From: czechsix(at)juno.com
>
>
> Just out of curiosity, does anyone share my concern about putting too
> much stress on the rollbar by pulling on it (with or without handles)?
> Perhaps the -6/7/9 series is more rigid due to the brace that goes up to
> the center of the roll bar, but on my -8A I noticed before glassing in my
> windshield that the roll bar would flex quite a bit by pushing/pulling on
> it. I remember thinking at the time that this would imply quite a bit of
> stress being transferred to the plexiglass via the screws that hold it to
> the roll bar. Sounds to me like a crack waiting to happen. But maybe
> extensive experience has proven that this is not a valid concern????
Mark,
If your rollbar installation is so flexible you would be worried about
cracking the windshield, then yours is way more flexible than it should be
or any I've seen. Keep in mind its primary purpose is a "rollbar" which
could be subjected to an 1800 # impact load and not collapse.
I did a little study at our last Leeward Air Ranch Fly-In. I watched
pilots getting in and out of RV8's and RV8A's. (We had 18 of them) Two of
them had handles installed on the rollbar and of course used them.14 out of
the remaining 16 of them put their hand on the windshield fairing at some
point in the process of getting in or out.
Certainly if you're young and agile you can do without it, but I
wouldn't even consider building an 8 without one.
Esten Spears, RV8A, 80922, N922ES (reserved), Leeward Air Ranch, Ocala, FL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Bolt on roll bar handles? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
Jerry;
The brake system is a hydraulic system,with oil being the liquid in the
system.
Oil will not compress,so there should ne NO compression in the system -
unless there is air in the system. Somewhere you have to have some air in
there,and there shouldn't be.
Did you use the nylon type brake lines? If so,you could see air bubbles in
the lines. I had small bubbles in the lines above the master cylinders(Where
the lines had a loop). I had to put pressure on the system and loosen a
fitting to let the bubbles get out. The bubbles will go to the highest point in
the
line,so look at the top of any loop.
I have a pressure bleeder and I bled my system from top and bottom. I rigged
a plug for the resevoir so that I could overflow it without making a mess. I
then ran a lot of fluid through the system to flush out any bubbles. My pedal
travel is almost none - maybe a half inch on the pedal top.
I have had no further problems for two years.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Steve Glasgow wrote:
>
>
> Heads Up
>
>
> In 2002 I bought a new XP-360 from Superior Air Parts which was sent
> to Aero Sport Power to be built up and test run. Both are great
> companies and both did a great job for me. Unfortunately, Aero Sport
> Power is in Canada and when my engine was sent back to me, it had to
> clear US Customs. Well guess what, US Customs sent the sales slip to
> the NC Department of Revenue and now I have a bill from NC for Sales
> Tax not paid to NC. With penalty and interest the Tax due is over
> $2,600 on a $22,000 engine.
>
>
> If I had it to do over I would use a US company and avoid the
> possibility of US Customs forwarding information to my state.
Steve, I suspect you will also get a love note from NC once your
aircraft is registered. The FAA will forward the registration info to
the state and the Revenoors are going to expect you to pay taxes on the
kit and components of the RV.
You probably want to go ahead and make a preemptive strike by getting
with the revenue department to make tax payments on stuff already
purchased so you can avoid most penalties. The penalties and interest
can really accumulate over the life of a building project.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6)
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Jerry,
OK, you have the cylinders springs up, good. It should be easy to bleed.
Here's how I do it (and I bet most people on this list do it): Get yourself
a little oil squirt can with a gooseneck extension. Fill the oil can with
5606 hydraulic fluid. Find some neoprene tubing the correct size that you
can slip over the gooseneck extension on the oil can and also that fits
tight over the bleeder screw on the bottom of the caliper (you may have to
use two differenct sizes of tubing and some breeze clamps, etc.).
You can actually do this by yourself without any help, but of course, if you
have a helper it makes it easier. I made myself a little pipe fitting that
screws into the top of the brake reservoir that has a brake bleeder fitting
screwed to it (or you can order one from Spruce, p/n 11225 for about $5).
You can attach another plastic tube here that drains into a catch can for
the overflow from the reservoir.
Now just loosen the bleeder screw on one of the brake calipers, pump until
fluid overflows into the catch can. Go to the other caliper, repeat. If
the brake pedals feel firm you're done, if not, go back and forth between
calipers and just keep pumping fluid until both pedals feels solid. If this
doesn't work, something's very wrong. Should work. Let us know.
You should start feeling resistance as soon as the pedal moves, fluid is
incompressible, so assuming no air and you are only moving the brake piston
perhaps an eigth of an inch max, so almost imediate resistance upon
depressing cylinder is the norm.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7 All Flying
Vero Beach, FL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Brakes
>
> To further expand on what I have now that I'm back from the Outback
> (Steakhouse that is).
>
> The master cylinders are installed springs up and all of the components
> are built and installed according to the plans . There is about an inch of
> travel on the shaft of the master cylinder before it starts to engage or
> build up pressure. This amount of travel allows the brake pedal to move
full
> stroke, i.e.. from the neutral, at rest position, to the fully depressed
> position before the master cylinder starts to build up pressure. Should
the
> master cylinder start to build pressure before it strokes this far? If so,
> that would solve my problem. If the master cylinder would start to develop
> pressure as soon as the shaft is depressed it would work. Is that the way
it
> should be?
>
> Jerry Isler
> RV-4 N455J
> Donalsonville, GA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-4 Brakes
>
>
> >
> > Now I remember. We used a hudson weed sprayer with a fitting on the end
> that fit the nipple on the bottom of the brake caliper. Loosen the zert a
> bit and pump up the Hudson. When the red gets to the brake fluid
resevoir,
> tighten the zert. Repeat on the other side. Worked well. Some use
adapted
> oil squirters too.
> >
> "Richard Bibb"
> >
> > I installed mine per the plans and they worked fine.
> >
> > In order to bleed the breaks I had to undo the cylinders and hold the
> lower
> > end "up" above the normal top end of the cylinder and pump flius from
the
> > botom. Other wise all you are doing is pushing air.
> >
> > RB
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve&Anita Nyman" <nyman(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | VS rear spar attachment |
I'm getting ready to drill the 3 bolt holes in the VS-410PP, WD-409, VS-808pp,
and F-712 aft bulkhead. According to the RV7 Dwg 27, detail A-A the two AN4 bolts
that go through the VS-410PP lower hinge bracket and the WD-409 tail spring
mount will only have 3/8" edge distance. Since AN4 bolts are 1/4" diameter,
I thought the edge distance was supposed to be 1/2" measured from the center
of the hole. Because of the positions of the VS-410PP and WD-409 I see no way
to get more than 3/8" distance from the top of the WD-409 and bottom of the
VS-410PP, but the holes could be moved inboard for the side distance. Am I missing
something, or is this one of the exceptions to the 2X diameter edge distance
rule.
Thanks,
Steve
7QB
MEM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
Jerry,
Make sure your master cylinders are fully retracted. Pull forward on the
top of the pedals. If the springs are not strong enough to fully return or
the pedals bind a little, the port is not open to the reservoir and you can
not pump fluid up from the wheel cylinders.
Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shemp" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to OSH |
Speaking of slow flight, I was practicing stall series a few days ago and
noticed very little difference in stall speed between 0,50 and full flaps.
She was getting down to about 57mph before quitting. Pretty impressive. I
was surprised by the negligible effect of the flaps. I also forgot how
much the lumps of skin and bone attached to the end of my legs need to be
working. Ive been flying the big guys for a while and havent used rudder in
a loooonnnng time. Im still getting used to using it for plain old normal
turns.
Jeff
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: flying to OSH
>
> >An RV is not a Glasair III. IT (the RV) can outperform the Glasair III
> at
> >SLOW speeds. ANY RV pilot that cannot fly the approach to OSH at 90
> should
> >not be flying to AirVenture.
>
> Agreed. Or maybe anywhere else, for that matter. Didn't you do this on
> your flight testing? Do you do other things with your airplane than
> blast around from place to place? Like practice? How well do you know
> the edges of your performance envelope, especially slow flight? How
> slow, what bank before it lets loose? Hmmmm
>
> One of the many reasons I built an RV was for the wide performance
> envelope. These airplanes fly GREAT at slow speeds. That wing just HANGS
> on. The only reason they wouldn't fly well is the pilot has not been out
> practicing slow flight. The approach to OSH is NO DIFFERENT in speeds
> than you should be using in your pattern at your home field. Do you
> blast into the home pattern at 135 knots? Probably not. At least you
> shouldn't be; you will take forever to slow down and you are traveling
> too fast for most other traffic in the pattern. 90 knots is not slow for
> an RV but you need to have practiced slow flight, and sometime before
> you leave for the trip, as well as other realms of flight, to be good at
> it and feel comfortable with it. And you should. Engine failure at slow
> speed? My best rate of glide is 5 knots slower than this "slow" 90 knots
> so I would have to slow down further, not speed up. With full flaps? How
> else are you going to land in an emergency? Have you practiced putting
> on and taking off flaps while on your emergency glide (you DO practice
> emergency procedures including slow and dirty, don't you?)? Me oh my. I
> was out several months ago flying formation right wing with an 85hp J-3
> Cub, for crying out loud. Including inside and outside turns. Was I
> hyperaware? You bet. But never felt like I was on the edge. It was 20
> knots faster than my stall speed. Practice, practice, practice. I almost
> built a Glasair taildragger. Thanks, Jim, for talking me out of that.
> NOT that there is anything wrong with that, although there must be
> reasons you don't see many of them around. I just like my RV better.
> Flies fast, flies slow. One of the many reasons I fly an RV; I LOVE this
> airplane.
>
> SO: I'll be in the lower not so slow altitude, flying right along with
> most other people, not worried someone is roaring up behind me at 145
> knots. If someone is ahead going slower, I'll make adjustments. I have
> NEVER felt uncomfortable with that procedure at OSH. You have to look
> around; shouldn't you always be looking around?
>
> You can never know too much about your airplane and your ability to fly
> it. Suzie Q and I have learned quite a bit in 6+ years of flitting
> about. She loves to go to OSH and show herself off. See you there.
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
>
> Practice, practice, practice................getting to know you; getting
> to know all about you..............
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Shemp" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
Since were on the subject of brakes, my left caliper is much harder to slide on
the pins than my right. I took some 400 grit to the pins and cleaned them up
but it still doesnt slide as smoothly as the right. There is a definite increase
in brake dust on that side as well. Has anyone else seen this?
Jeff
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <charleyb(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Filling the brake system. (Was RV-4 Brakes) |
I'm about ready to put fluid in my -6A brakes for the first time. I plan
to use an oil can pumper and fill from below. From my experience with
car brakes, one should pour fluid very slowly from the original
container into the oil can to avoid creating bubbles. Also, pump very
slowly while filling the system for the same reason. Lastly, running low
or out of fluid during the filling process increases the probability of
pumping air into the system. Therein lies my problem - my oil can holds
less than a pint of fluid.
Does anyone know how much fluid is required to fill each brake system?
Charlie
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
Hi,
I've flown in to Oshkosh five times, twice in my Debonair (same thing as
early F33) and all at the lower level. Three times in my RV6a. All a
piece of cake.
The RV6a stalls at 43Kts flaps down. 90 is more than twice that. I feel
that if you are uncomfortable at 90Kts, you should do some slow flight
practice and stalls. You should be able to fly at 45Kts. You shouldn't
stall and if you do, you should be able to recover from 1800 feet. Your
engine should not overheat doing it either. It will not be 102F at
Oshkosh, especially early in the day. By the way, it is harder going in
near closing time.
I don't recall ever being very close to others or being really slow. I do
dimly recall a Cessna who was going way too fast and pulled out of the
line. There's always that two percent.
I'm not going to be flying in this year and probably not going any other
way :-( Flying in is humongous fun.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake caliper |
Measure with a dial caliper the distance from pin to pin at the tips and at
the mounting plate. They should be the same. If they aren't then the pins at
not parallel. Why? could be bent, not installed correctly, mis-machined.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shemp" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Brake caliper
>
> Since were on the subject of brakes, my left caliper is much harder to
slide on the pins than my right. I took some 400 grit to the pins and
cleaned them up but it still doesnt slide as smoothly as the right. There
is a definite increase in brake dust on that side as well. Has anyone else
seen this?
>
> Jeff
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
Thanks for all of the input about my brake delema. Turns out the biggest
problem was that I was trying to use a Wal-Mart piece of crap oil can /
squirter. It would not build up enough pressure to force the brake fluid up
into the system so I pumped merrily away and nothing was happening. I
visited my local crop duster today and borrowed his NAPA brand oil can and
some more fluid. I had both sides filled and vented within 20 minutes of
returning home. The pedal now hardly moves when the brakes are fully
applied. maybe 1/8 inch, and it is rock solid. The second problem was that I
was trying to apply automobile brake system knowledge to an airplane. I was
expecting there to be some amount of travel on the actuator shaft of the
master cylinder. To my surprise the is virtually none. Auto master cylinder
shafts move quite a bit before engaging.
"Patch" Price the local crop duster, says he has to bleed the brakes on
his turbine Thrush every now and then. What is really interesting is that he
says the Thrush uses Studebaker master cylinders with Cleaveland brake
calipers from the factory. Imagine what a certified Studebaker master
cylinder cost!
Thanks for all the input. It really steered me in the right direction.
Jerry Isler
RV-4 N455J
>
> Jerry,
>
> OK, you have the cylinders springs up, good. It should be easy to bleed.
> Here's how I do it (and I bet most people on this list do it): Get
yourself
> a little oil squirt can with a gooseneck extension. Fill the oil can with
> 5606 hydraulic fluid. Find some neoprene tubing the correct size that you
> can slip over the gooseneck extension on the oil can and also that fits
> tight over the bleeder screw on the bottom of the caliper (you may have to
> use two differenct sizes of tubing and some breeze clamps, etc.).
>
> You can actually do this by yourself without any help, but of course, if
you
> have a helper it makes it easier. I made myself a little pipe fitting
that
> screws into the top of the brake reservoir that has a brake bleeder
fitting
> screwed to it (or you can order one from Spruce, p/n 11225 for about $5).
> You can attach another plastic tube here that drains into a catch can for
> the overflow from the reservoir.
>
> Now just loosen the bleeder screw on one of the brake calipers, pump until
> fluid overflows into the catch can. Go to the other caliper, repeat. If
> the brake pedals feel firm you're done, if not, go back and forth between
> calipers and just keep pumping fluid until both pedals feels solid. If
this
> doesn't work, something's very wrong. Should work. Let us know.
>
> You should start feeling resistance as soon as the pedal moves, fluid is
> incompressible, so assuming no air and you are only moving the brake
piston
> perhaps an eigth of an inch max, so almost imediate resistance upon
> depressing cylinder is the norm.
>
> Pat Hatch
> RV-4
> RV-6
> RV-7 All Flying
> Vero Beach, FL
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lui" <signco(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Rooms @ Rippon for Oshkosh |
In case you need room @ Oshkosh, Jack Gray has an extra room that doesn't
need at the Rippon's College.
I believe it is for 2-3 nights for $153 but check with him.
You can reach him @ archerg(at)iapc.net or 281-543-8715
Later,
L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lui" <signco(at)ev1.net> |
| Subject: | Room @ Rippon for Oshkosh |
In case you need room @ Oshkosh, Jack Gray has an extra room that doesn't
need at the Rippon's College.
I believe it is for 2-3 nights for $153 but check with him.
You can reach him @ archerg(at)iapc.net or 281-543-8715
Later,
L.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | Torquing and other assundry questions. |
I asked this a while back on the RV-6 list but that was before I realized
that ALL the action is on the RV list not the RV-6 list. So=85. I=92ll ask
again, maybe someone out there can tell me the answers.
First the torquing:
1) Hiem joint jam nuts, do ya use a torque wrench w/crows foot and if
so what torque value should I use
2) Fuel and vent line flare fittings, torque wrench with crows foot or
what, if so what torque value
3) Elevator bellcrank pivot bolt, this is the quarter inch bolt that
goes through the aluminum tube spacers and the bellcrank bearing, when I
tighten it to the 75 inch pounds a =BC AN bolt is supposed to be tightened to,
the bolt appears to bow in the assembly, should I be tightening this bolt
this tight or use a different torque value, same question for the aileron
bellcrank bolts
4) Rudder pedal and flap bearing plastic blocks, when I tighten the
AN3 bolt to spec these blocks look like they get smashed down pretty good,
is this too much torque for these blocks or not
5) Is there any special kind of grease that I should be using on the
heim bearings, should I clean and grease em before final assembly, if so how
6) When installing the wing bolts a friend told me to use fuel lube on
them, is this a good idea, does the fuel lube help them go in easier, does
it keep them from corroding, being their in contact with a dissimilar metal
7) When I go to put my main landing gear on I=92ll have the wings and
tail on the airplane but probably not the motor yet, for you guys who used
spar plugs on your 6As to get your airplanes on the gear while finishing in
your garage and then taking the plane out to the airport and having to put
the wings on after everything else is done, how did you lift up the airplane
to pull the spar plugs install the wings and reinstall the main gear mounts?
Seems like the airplane would have to be lifted up quite a ways to install
the gear legs from the bottom, how did you jack up the plane to do this
8) How did you run wiring through the main spar carry through (604
bulkhead), I use electric trim so I have the trim cable hole available but
its not enough, can I enlarge this hole or maybe drill another next to it,
the trim hole is large but I have an IFR stack and I=92ll probably need that
hole just to run all the radio coax to the back of the plane, what is a
good thing to do here
Thanks for all the help
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Installing wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh and thanks to Galley and crew |
>
>Scott,
>
>I beg to differ. EAA WAS about experimental aircraft. EAA is now about
>sport aviation, as you may notice when you note the various divisions, one
>for aerobatics, one for antiques and classics, etc. and remember the name
>of EAA's magazine.
>
>The roster of our EAA chapter in Mulino, Oregon, shows about 56 members,
>with about 27 projects or completed homebuilts, and an equal number of
>factory built planes. Those who choose to fly factory built planes are
>just as active and contribute just as much as the homebuilders--more,
>perhaps, as several of the factory built planes are 4 place planes and flew
>the majority of young eagles last year.
>
>When the Bonanza pilots want to arrive at Oshkosh together, I say, more
>power to them, it just makes the party bigger!
>
>Richard Scott
>1941 Interstate Cadet
>RV-9A Emp.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
Andy (or anyone else who wishes to respond), this has probably been just
about worn out as far as you are concerned, but I have a question that is
causing me to hesitate somewhat before making a fiberglass/epoxy based
plenum for my O-360. Is there any concern about the high temps in the
plenum after engine shut down that would cause the plenum to change its
shape when using West System epoxy? Is there a alternative to epoxy more
heat tolerant when using fiberglass or carbon fiber? Thanks.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Semco Sealant Cartridges |
| From: | "Condrey, Bob (US SSA)" <bob.condrey(at)baesystems.com> |
I purchased a surplus Semco gun on ebay and it seems to work well with
the prepackaged cartridges. However, when I ordered some additional
cartridges from AC Spruce they didn't come with the rear seal (the part
that the gun plunger pushes on). A couple empty cartridges were
included with the gun that had them. A call to AC Spruce didn't seem to
get much besides head scratching. I've also looked at the other
aviation tool places and haven't had any luck locating either the seals
or another source empty cartridges that do have them.
I'd use the filled cartridges from Vans except that in addition to being
much more expensive, I believe that they have 1/2 pot life instead of
the 2 hours that you get from mixing from the quart cans.
Surely I can't be the first to encounter this - any thoughts?
Bob
RV-10 #40105
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
Have you considered forgetting the fiberglass and going with an aluminum
plenum? Probably a lot less work, and no worries about heat. I can
send you some pics of mine if you want ideas.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Anglin" <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net> |
An easy way to do a fibreglass lid is lay the lid up in the top of the
cowling and then fit and trim it to standard baffling with .032 angle bent
the appropiate angle to blend into the lid. Put the angles on in 6" pcs.
for temp flexxing and because it's easier to make them the proper angle. As
for the heat, it shouldn't be a problem because it will be cool when you are
flying and there won't be any pressure on it when it is hot (on the ground).
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Plenum
>
> Have you considered forgetting the fiberglass and going with an aluminum
> plenum? Probably a lot less work, and no worries about heat. I can
> send you some pics of mine if you want ideas.
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is my RV9A too slow? |
Kim, what RPM were you turning whan you were flat out? What altitude were
you indicating 140 Kts??
I flew an RV-9 / 160 back from Seattle to CT and found that at 2700 rpm my
true airspeed at 9500 feet was about 155 kts. I just read the TAS off the
instrument and don't have any real supporting info besides that.
Don
"All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create
the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Cours <rv-j(at)moriarti.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Initial electrical set up |
Curt Reimer wrote:
> Without getting into the math, redundant systems with fuses are going to be
> more reliable than a single system with a circuit breaker *every time*.
> Usually by several orders of magnitude.
It's been a long time since the last time I took a class that covered
redundant and reliable circuits, so I certainly don't mean this to come
across as arguing the point. I'm mostly trying to knock some of the rust
off the old neurons.
From what I remember, if you have multiple redundant systems, and you
assume independent failure probabilities across the systems (not sure
whether or not that's a good assumption, in this case), the probability
of a partial failure increases but the probability of a total failure
decreases. In other words, ignoring electrical fires, lightning strikes,
and other events that are likely to cause common failures, your chances
of having to replace a fuse should increase because there are more
things with fuses, but your chances of totally losing, say, all your
radios decrease because of the redundancy.
Do I have it right?
thanks,
Jeff C.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Cours <rv-j(at)moriarti.org> |
Jim Sears wrote:
> Gosh, guys. I'm glad I put my two cents in about my twisted rudder.
> It's raised some good discussion. Anyway, I used a simple jig and got
> almost all of the twist out.
I'm just coming up on the 7A's rudder skeleton now. Since I'm a first
time builder, and working on a newer 7A kit which doesn't seem to
describe any tail jigs[1], what sort of jig are you using and how are
you using it? I'm imagining an "H" made of 2x4's, with the uprights set
plumb, with center lines on the top of the horizontal bar and the
insides of the uprights. (Either that or a "U" on top of the work table,
with shelf brackets to hold the uprights.) Are you fastening the spar to
the horizontal piece somehow and then centering the end ribs on the
uprights? Also, are you running a string across the uprights for the
trailing edge, or just centering the end ribs?
thanks,
Jeff C.
[1] Or maybe I just missed it, which is certainly possible. Just this
morning I started hunting for the "detail view" on dwg 7 of the aft
holes in the rudder horn and haven't found it yet... There is a wing jig
description which I could probably adapt, but I haven't really gone into
it in detail, yet.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" |
Jamie Painter wrote:
My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4 jig
> posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor?
Liquid Nail (other similar brand) construction adhesive available at any
building supply store.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
To all who requested pics of my plenum, I put some on a web site:
http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/rv6plenumpics/
Jeff Point
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
Since we're on the subject of brakes...
Our RV6a went thru it's first set of pads at 216 hrs, and started to squeal
and chatter a little before we looked into it and discovered the pads down to
the rivets on the right side. Of course, thought replacing all pads would quiet
things down, but it didn't. The right side still howls and chatters after 3
hours and maybe 10 landings. BTW, the rotor looks fine.
Any thoughts/comments/cures from all you listers? Thanks mucho.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Attaching Jig posts to cement floor. Was: "plans" |
> My wife has expressed her discomfort with my drilling holes into our
cement
> garage floor for attaching the posts (I'm not too thrilled about the idea
> myself). My question: Does anyone have a clever method of attaching 4x4
jig
> posts to a garage floor that doesn't involve drilling into the floor?
>
> I mean, I know I can just go back with some cement crack filler and fill
in
> the darn holes, but I would like to avoid it if at all possible. I'm also
> worried about cracking the floor.
Liquid Nails, available at any home improvement center, about $3.50. You
dispense it with a caulking gun, works great. When it's time to take the jig
down just bend the wood post over and it will release. The dried Liquid
Nails can be then removed from the concrete with MEK.
Randy Lervold
RV-8, 368 hrs, sold
RV-3B, empennage, about to start fuselage and secure my jig posts to the
floor with Liquid Nails
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Hoisting fuselage |
Dean,
An engine hoist with a couple (for safety) of ratcheting cargo straps will
easily lift the fuse. I did this but had to anchor the tail at the same time.
Works very slick... You DO have an engine crane don't you? Best $149 spent. BTW,
do you miss Oregon yet? :)
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
7) When I go to put my main landing gear on I=92ll have the wings and
tail on the airplane but probably not the motor yet, for you guys who used
spar plugs on your 6As to get your airplanes on the gear while finishing in
your garage and then taking the plane out to the airport and having to put
the wings on after everything else is done, how did you lift up the airplane
to pull the spar plugs install the wings and reinstall the main gear mounts?
Seems like the airplane would have to be lifted up quite a ways to install
the gear legs from the bottom, how did you jack up the plane to do this
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Brake chatter |
First check for a full release on all brake pedals. Reach in and see
if the pedals (especially the right side right pedal) always and easily
returns to the full aft position. If it does not then it would cause
the dragging brake which could cause the squeal and premature wear.
Lubricate, loosen and finally perhaps replace (or stretch) the return
springs.
There is very little movement in these master cylinders and it is easy
to miss a stiff pedal. The plane doesn't give much clue that a brake is
dragging unless it is really stuck hard.
Good luck. This will fix it 90% of the time. 95% if you have dual
brakes.
Denis
On Jul 19, 2004, at 2:29 PM, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Since we're on the subject of brakes...
>
> Our RV6a went thru it's first set of pads at 216 hrs, and started to
> squeal
> and chatter a little before we looked into it and discovered the pads
> down to
> the rivets on the right side. Of course, thought replacing all pads
> would quiet
> things down, but it didn't. The right side still howls and chatters
> after 3
> hours and maybe 10 landings. BTW, the rotor looks fine.
>
> Any thoughts/comments/cures from all you listers? Thanks mucho.
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
A number of years back, there was an RV-6(A) that had a squeal with the
brakes all the time from day one. Turns out there was hose all the way down
the gear to the caliper. Apply brakes, and the hose got stiff (tried to
straighten out) and caused a little out of alignment of the brakes to the
disc. When replaced with rigid tubing, it worked fine.
On my airplane with rigid tubing, I have seen the problem of squeal noise
from brakes on one occasion. After changing the lining, I got the tubing a
little out of line and that kept the pads from hitting the disc straight.
After about 3 attempts of adjusting the tubing, I got the tubing aligned
without any preload on the caliper. The noise was gone.
This may not be your problem but it is worth checking. It has happened to
me once and only trial an error (one change at a time) found the problem.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,527 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Brake chatter
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 16:29:39 EDT
Since we're on the subject of brakes...
Our RV6a went thru it's first set of pads at 216 hrs, and started to squeal
and chatter a little before we looked into it and discovered the pads down
to
the rivets on the right side. Of course, thought replacing all pads would
quiet
things down, but it didn't. The right side still howls and chatters after 3
hours and maybe 10 landings. BTW, the rotor looks fine.
Any thoughts/comments/cures from all you listers? Thanks mucho.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
Larry,
I built my plenum using the cowl as the top form. Then used foam to form the
rest of the plenum plug. I used West Epoxy and carbon fiber to try and reduce
weight. It took a lot of time and effort to make the plug, mold and them the
plenum - looks rather cool though. After I had finished it I spoke with Sam
James (James Holy Cowl) at Sun n Fun and he said he uses a special high temp
epoxy, but you have to have a "license" to buy it.
Any way I was pretty upset after talking with him, he suggested heat curing
it, I went home and put it in the Sauna increasing temp to 200F and then left
it there for an hour. When I went in to check it was hot, but fine, no
distortion.
I haven't flown yet - maybe September or October then I'll let you know if I
find a gooey mess under the cowl - don't expect to.
Dave Burnham
RV6A N64FN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian" <hogriding(at)ameritech.net> |
| Subject: | Seeking some expertise |
Hello-
I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft.
I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply
observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I
have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride
in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else..
I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to
purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun
researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my
own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional
Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for
the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals
can.
I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has
strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country
trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off
from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI
when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a
passenger (I know it's a lot to ask)..
A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a
lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in
purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the
road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning
on the RV series but I need to compare the facts..
Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but
if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I
would really appreciate the feedback.
Thank you very much-
Brian
Starting from the basics
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking some expertise |
Brian,
What part of the country do you live? Vans has no problem burning a little
100LL to help you make this decision. If you aren't near Oregon then most
likely there is an EAA chapter not far away from where you do live. Visit a
meeting, talk to the members who are always glad to show off their pride and
joy.
Also to know more about each or the RV's be sure to vist
HTTP://www.vansaircraft.com you will find a wealth of pre-purchase
information regarding all of their aircraft. Good Luck and FWIW....some
builders started out in their living room before moving to the garage.
Karie Daniel
RV-7A QB
Sammamish, WA.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <hogriding(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise
>
> Hello-
>
> I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft.
> I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply
> observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I
> have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride
> in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else..
>
> I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to
> purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun
> researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my
> own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional
> Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for
> the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals
> can.
>
> I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has
> strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country
> trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off
> from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI
> when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a
> passenger (I know it's a lot to ask)..
>
> A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a
> lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in
> purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the
> road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning
> on the RV series but I need to compare the facts..
>
> Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but
> if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I
> would really appreciate the feedback.
>
> Thank you very much-
>
> Brian
> Starting from the basics
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Headset Recommendation |
I need to upgrade my passenger (AKA wife) headsets. I have a set of Lightspeed
25XL's, and would consider buying another set of Lightspeed's for her, but they
only offer headsets with the mic and cord on the left, and I need the cord
on the right for my passenger.
Recommendations?
Thanks in advance,
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <jammeter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking some expertise |
>
>Brian,
>What part of the country do you live? Vans has no problem burning a little
>100LL to help you make this decision. If you aren't near Oregon then most
>likely there is an EAA chapter not far away from where you do live. Visit a
>meeting, talk to the members who are always glad to show off their pride and
>joy.
>
>Also to know more about each or the RV's be sure to vist
>HTTP://www.vansaircraft.com you will find a wealth of pre-purchase
>information regarding all of their aircraft. Good Luck and FWIW....some
>builders started out in their living room before moving to the garage.
>
>Karie Daniel
>RV-7A QB
>Sammamish, WA.
>
>
I recall one Project Visit where the RV was being built in
the living room. BTW, the builder was single... He was
planning on replacing the carpet after finishing the
airplane.
John Ammeter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cory Emberson" <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Headset Recommendation |
I have Peltors and love them.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright
Subject: RV-List: Headset Recommendation
I need to upgrade my passenger (AKA wife) headsets. I have a set of
Lightspeed 25XL's, and would consider buying another set of Lightspeed's for
her, but they only offer headsets with the mic and cord on the left, and I
need the cord on the right for my passenger.
Recommendations?
Thanks in advance,
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of RV-4 Stick boots. |
I am also looking for ideas for stick boots - especially in the rear seat of my
RV-4. (It seems whenever I drop anything, it always goes into the hole.)
So please also send me any pictures you may have.
noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com
Thanks.
Jeff Bertsch
lonestarsquadron.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking some expertise |
It sounds like the plane you want is the RV-10 but it won't be available to purchase
in any price range for quite some time. I'd look for a nice used RV-6A
with 180 horse motor and a constant speed prop. That's probably your best bet
for a semi-economical go-anywhere-with-a-passenger machine. The RV-4 is your
best bet for a pure-joy machine (ok, maybe an RV-3) but you won't find either
in 'A' configurations.
If you're approaching this as an investment, be forewarned that you might not fit
in with the vast majority of the RV crowd. Most of us built ours from the
ground up for the pure love of these planes. Buying one for an investment is
fine, just don't tell anyone about it. :-)
I hope you read the thread recently on using RV's as instrument platforms. The
concensus (I'm not IFR rated so I have no opinion) is that unless you are at
the top of your IFR game you might want to think twice about it. Most agreed
that they are fine for punching through morning and marine stratus but it didn't
sound like you'd want to battle a decent storm in one. Sounded like an autopilot
was a must for IFR types in RVs.
95 deg, tall pine trees, 2200' strip, passenger. Hmmm might be cutting it close.
Definately doable solo. Maybe some of those trees could mysteriously fall
down in the middle of the night. It's been known to happen.
You might have to adjust your expectations slightly but you definately won't be
disappointed. Then again, there's always some RV-er out there ready and willing
to make a liar out of me.
Oh, and you'd not just like the plane but love it if you built it yourself. Yes
it's a sacrifice but is there anyone here who will say it wasn't worth it?
At least give it some thought.
Brian wrote:
Hello-
I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft.
I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply
observing all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I
have to admit that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride
in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere else..
I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to
purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun
researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my
own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional
Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for
the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals
can.
I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has
strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country
trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off
from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI
when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a
passenger (I know it's a lot to ask)..
A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a
lot great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in
purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the
road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning
on the RV series but I need to compare the facts..
Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but
if anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I
would really appreciate the feedback.
Thank you very much-
Brian
Starting from the basics
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
| Subject: | Seeking some expertise |
Brian,
If you really are considering buying a homebuilt, there is one point to
consider that is always in the back of my mind regarding the difference
between conventional metal and glass airplanes. That is, how do you tell
if a glass airframe has been damaged and improperly repaired? It is pretty
hard to hide from an experienced eye when sheetmetal has been pounded out or
filled with bondo, but glass planes are especially easy to fill and hide the
evidence. Truly, most builders and owners are honest and want it done
right, but your ability to know that for sure is much stronger with a
sheetmetal airplane. If you've ever worked with fiberglass, you know that
it would be very easy to fill a structural crack and paint over it. To the
eye, it would look perfect and there are very few ways to find the defect.
I wouldn't be very confident buying a glass plane (homebuilt or certified)
unless I knew the seller very very well, but that's just one woman's
opinion....
Kathleen Evans
Folsom, CA
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brian
Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise
Hello-
I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an experimental aircraft.
I have been on this distribution list for apprx four months simply observing
all of the communication that takes place regarding the RV. I have to admit
that there is an impressive sense of camaraderie and pride in owning an RV
that I have not experienced anywhere else..
I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to
purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun
researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my own
plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional Pipers
Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for the twin
the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals can.
I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has
strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country trips,
stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off from a 2200
foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI when the temp is
95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a passenger (I know it's
a lot to ask)..
A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of an RV-4 and it was a lot
great! That ride is what really led to my peaked interest in purchasing (I
don't have any place to build so maybe sometime down the
road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have to say I am leaning on
the RV series but I need to compare the facts..
Ultimately, I understand it does come down to personal preference, but if
anyone has gone through this process and has any insight to offer I would
really appreciate the feedback.
Thank you very much-
Brian
Starting from the basics
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob 1" <rv3a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking some expertise |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian" <hogriding(at)ameritech.net>
Subject: RV-List: Seeking some expertise
>
> Hello-
>
>
> I would like to know if anyone can offer any information with respect to
> purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or Glasair? I have begun
> researching these planes but I am a neophyte with respect to owning my
> own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown the traditional
> Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the Aztec twin. Except for
> the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment the experimentals
> can.
>
> I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has
> strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country
> trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off
> from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI
> when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a
> passenger (I know it's a lot to ask)..
>
> Thank you very much-
>
> Brian
> Starting from the basics
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
I have a conservative friend that flies a Glasair III.
It will never see a 2500 foot strip with tall trees on each end...
hot summer or cold winter.
An acquaintance owns a 2500 foot grass strip with 80' trees all around.
Lots of RV's have flown in there.
Not one Lancair or Glasair, yet.
They buzz and then fly on by.
Lancair and Glasair aircraft go faster... and land faster. RV's they are
not, so the 'economies" are different. Also, be sure to check with your
insurance agent before you purchase either one. The two doods I know flying
these very hi performance aircraft are self insured because of rates and/or
availability. One is a retired airline pilot, the other a very accomplished
aerobatic pilot.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Lundin <rlundin46(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeking some expertise |
--- Brian wrote:
>
> Keep in mind Brian, you are asking about glass
airplanes on a list where everyone has decided to
build aluminum. :-)
Rick
> Hello-
>
> I am seeking some expertise in the purchase of an
> experimental aircraft.
> I have been on this distribution list for apprx four
> months simply
> observing all of the communication that takes place
> regarding the RV. I
> have to admit that there is an impressive sense of
> camaraderie and pride
> in owning an RV that I have not experienced anywhere
> else..
>
> I would like to know if anyone can offer any
> information with respect to
> purchasing an RV (-6a, -8a or -9a) vs Lancair or
> Glasair? I have begun
> researching these planes but I am a neophyte with
> respect to owning my
> own plane- especially an experimental. I have flown
> the traditional
> Pipers Warriors, Archers, Cessna 172, 182 and the
> Aztec twin. Except for
> the twin the other planes don't offer the enjoyment
> the experimentals
> can.
>
> I would like to invest in an aircraft that is
> economical to operate, has
> strong performance, good cruise speed for those long
> cross country
> trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument
> conditions yet take off
> from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall
> pine tress) in WI
> when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high
> density altitude and a
> passenger (I know it's a lot to ask)..
>
> A friend of mine gave me a ride in the back seat of
> an RV-4 and it was a
> lot great! That ride is what really led to my
> peaked interest in
> purchasing (I don't have any place to build so maybe
> sometime down the
> road) one of the aircraft mentioned above.. I have
> to say I am leaning
> on the RV series but I need to compare the facts..
>
> Ultimately, I understand it does come down to
> personal preference, but
> if anyone has gone through this process and has any
> insight to offer I
> would really appreciate the feedback.
>
> Thank you very much-
>
> Brian
> Starting from the basics
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Headset Recommendation |
I just did the $200 trade-in for the Thirty 3G. (two pair) They are more
comfortable and quieter than the old 25XLs they replaced.
You get use to the cord on the left in no time at all. Not a problem.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,528 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Headset Recommendation
Date: Mon, 19 Jul 2004 23:43:26 -0400
I need to upgrade my passenger (AKA wife) headsets. I have a set of
Lightspeed 25XL's, and would consider buying another set of Lightspeed's for
her, but they only offer headsets with the mic and cord on the left, and I
need the cord on the right for my passenger.
Recommendations?
Thanks in advance,
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rebibb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Photos of RV-4 Stick boots. |
I'd like those pictures, too. I have the same problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Bertsch" <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Photos of RV-4 Stick boots.
>
>
> I am also looking for ideas for stick boots - especially in the rear seat
of my RV-4. (It seems whenever I drop anything, it always goes into the
hole.)
>
> So please also send me any pictures you may have.
>
> noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com
>
> Thanks.
>
> Jeff Bertsch
>
> lonestarsquadron.com
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "sdellangelo(at)netzero.com" <sdellangelo(at)netzero.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone with Interior from Flightline Interiors going to Oshkosh? |
I would love to get to see one in person. I'll be going for the day this Sunday
(if weather is decent) and then the convention from Thursday - Sunday.
Thanks,
Scott DellAngelo
#90598 waiting for Fuselage
Plainfield, IL
Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <EricHe(at)FlexSolPackaging.com> |
I've been doing the glass plenum thing myself lately. Just wasn't happy with glass
and made one out of .040 aluminum. As far as using West Systems epoxy, I wouldn't.
It doesn't have much of a heat tollerance. Good news is even the cheapo
vynal esther resin has about twice the heat rating that epoxy does. Vynal esther
is pretty cheap too, one good source is molding resin. It has to have a
good heat resistance since the layup will often flash to excess of 280 degrees.
You can get it at any good glass source. If not go to Jarmco on the internet
and they'll sell ya some for cheap.
Ya know, the $12.00 a quart ve resin I use sure looks and smells the same as Sams
resin. Probably just a coincidence.
Oh btw, hey Jeff ya know you can hold that plenum together with screws and nutplates
<:-O
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seeking some expertise |
>I would like to invest in an aircraft that is economical to operate, has
>strong performance, good cruise speed for those long cross country
>trips, stable enough to be flown in instrument conditions yet take off
>from a 2200 foot grass strip with an obstacle (tall pine tress) in WI
>when the temp is 95 degrees coupled with a high density altitude and a
>passenger (I know it's a lot to ask)..
That pretty much decides it for you. Glass planes on a strip like
that....could be real interesting. In an RV a non issue. All this from what
little I know and have seen of glass planes.
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | Plenum ...... Check out any local Mooney aircraft |
Any local Mooney at your airport has a aluminum plenum or "dog house" as it
called. The RV we built has one based on a Mooney design. Rather easy once
you do the baffle kit. You have to do the baffle kit anyway, so adding the
top cover and nut plates was easy (compared to the baffle kit).
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Headset Recommendation |
I sent them a 25XL for repair......came back with the cord and mike of the
right! So it can be changed.
>
>I need to upgrade my passenger (AKA wife) headsets. I have a set of
>Lightspeed 25XL's, and would consider buying another set of Lightspeed's
>for her, but they only offer headsets with the mic and cord on the left,
>and I need the cord on the right for my passenger.
>
>Recommendations?
>
>Thanks in advance,
>
>KB
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | New engine and prop... long... |
As most of you know I recently overhauled the engine in my -8A, taking it from
a 150HP with a bad cam to about 170HP... In this config I would see about 600-700
fpm climb and about 175 MPH TAS at 2550 RPM at 8000' MSL...
So I have been flying it with the overhauled engine for a while now with another
Sterba; a 70x78, maybe 20 hours, but have not been really happy with the performance
so I have been putting of posting any info... But this weekend I got
my new prop; a 66x72 Catto three bladed beauty! Man is it pretty.....and SMOOTH!
After flying the three bladed prop I may never go back to two! It is amazingly
smooth and quiet!
Anyway, I made three flights yesterday and decided to post some performance numbers...
Keep in mind that I did not take a lot of care to get exact numbers yesterday
with the Catto, and it was kinda bumpy, but I will get better numbers
soon, maybe in a couple weeks (damn day job keeps getting in the way of my fun)...
So take this for what it's worth, but note that I am more than satisfied
with the Catto... It does exactly what Craig said it would in RPM & SPEED,
and I would HIGHLY recommend to anyone looking for a fixed prop to call him up,
he is great to work with and the prop is beautiful! ...and oh man is it smooth!!
...did I mention that already?
So anyway, after the overhaul, and with a Sterba 70x78 wood prop here's what I
got from two different three way GPS runs on the same day:
(climb performance was takes from the VSI)
170HP - Sterba 70x78 prop
Date: 6/22/04 - Time: 8:00 AM
Ground OAT F: 63
Ground DA Ft: 8100
Static RPM: 2380
Climb MPH IAS: 115
Climb RPM: 700 - 800
Altitude - MSL: 8000
OAT F: 59
Full Throttle RPM: 2700
Heading:120 - MPH GPS GS: 174
Heading:360 - MPH GPS GS: 196
Heading:240 - MPH GPS GS: 168
MPH TAS from GPS Runs: 179.3
-------------------------------------------
170HP - Sterba 70x78 prop
Date: 6/22/04 - Time: 6:00 PM
Ground OAT: 68
Ground DA: 8400
Static RPM: 2380
Climb MPH: 110
Climb RPM: 700 - 800
Altitude - MSL: 8000
OAT F: 61
Full Throttle RPM: 2700
Heading:120 - MPH GPS GS: 175
Heading:360 - MPH GPS GS: 184
Heading:240 - MPH GPS GS: 174
TAS from GPS Runs: 177.6
-------------------------------------------
Now for the two runs I made yesterday with the Catto... Keep in mind it was pretty
bumpy and I didn't take all the reading is Should have...
170HP - Catto 66x72 prop
Date: 7/18/04 - Time: 11:00 AM
Ground OAT F: ?
Ground DA Ft: @ 9500
Static RPM: 2240
Climb MPH IAS: 120
Climb RPM: 1000-1100
Altitude - MSL: 8000
OAT F: 72
Full Throttle RPM: 2700
Heading:120 - MPH GPS GS: 193
Heading:360 - MPH GPS GS: 192
Heading:240 - MPH GPS GS: 196
MPH TAS from GPS Runs: 193.6
-------------------------------------------
170HP - Catto 66x72 prop
Date: 7/18/04 - Time: 4:00 PM
Ground OAT F: ?
Ground DA Ft: @ 10,000 maybe 10,500
Static RPM: 2240
Climb MPH IAS: 120
Climb RPM: 900-1000
Altitude - MSL: 8000
OAT F: ?
Full Throttle RPM: 2700
Heading:120 - MPH GPS GS: 183
Heading:360 - MPH GPS GS: 197
Heading:240 - MPH GPS GS: 194
MPH TAS from GPS Runs: 191.3
-------------------------------------------
So, like I said, the numbers I took with the Catto yesterday were quick and dirty,
but I will be doing some more testing in a couple weeks... I still want to
install an electronic ignition too!
Pix and info here: http://www.rv8a.com/engine/catto/
-Bill VonDane
EAA Tech Counselor
RV-8A ~ N8WV ~ Colorado Springs
www.vondane.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Turbo Tom" <turbotom(at)mindspring.com> |
Almost all epoxies will go much higher than 200F. I use it all the time for
oil tanks and intake manifolds. The trick is post curing. You want to take
the temperature of the cured part up by 25F per hour. I usually go to 250F
in the oven, and that makes the part good for 300F.
I have baked parts in a car parked in the sun [140f here in GA], a solar
oven made with foil-backed "R-Max" insulation topped with a plastic sheet
[170F]. Mostly, the parts I make are small enough to do in my home oven.
Unless the composite part has a temperature rise of over 50 degrees from
it's previous temp, it will hold it's shape.
I like Aeropoxy the best for "hot" parts, but Poly-Epoxy best for general
use.
I also use S-glass instead of e-glass for it's stiffness. It's worth the
extra money for structural stiffness on parts like plenums, tanks and other
"unsupported structures" [no foam core]
Hope this helps somebody as much as all posters who responded to "infinity
grip trim relays" helped me. Thanks guys!
TT
he said he uses a special high temp
> epoxy, but you have to have a "license" to buy it.
>
> Any way I was pretty upset after talking with him, he suggested heat
curing
> it, I went home and put it in the Sauna increasing temp to 200F and then
left
> it there for an hour. When I went in to check it was hot, but fine, no
> distortion.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Japundza <bjapundza(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flying to Oshkosh |
Fly in late in the day after the airshow is over and
usually you will have the arrival pattern to yourself
and maybe 1-2 other airplanes. This has worked well
for me for the last three years. That way you have
time to unpack, set up camp, chill with your buddies
and a brew-ha before hitting it hard the next day...
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 500+ hours
F1 under const.
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: New engine and prop... long... |
Bill,
What method are you using for this TAS calculation?
If you happen to be using my spreadsheet then a small technical note.
The GPS track and Groundspeed are input to the computation, not the Heading.
If these are indeed headings all is not lost, I can tell you how to use
the spread to accomodate this.
Also, it is not necessary to be so precise about the heading you do fly.
Just record the GPS GS and Track.
Also, did you correct the TAS for Altitude and Temperature?
Doug Gray
> Altitude - MSL: 8000
> OAT F: 59
> Full Throttle RPM: 2700
> Heading:120 - MPH GPS GS: 174
> Heading:360 - MPH GPS GS: 196
> Heading:240 - MPH GPS GS: 168
>
> MPH TAS from GPS Runs: 179.3
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-9A emp on RV-7A |
I originally started building a 9A. I got through most of the emp kit when a
local builder convinced me that I would regret not building a 7 instead. So, I
bought the 7 emp kit and started over. Now that I'm halfway through the wings
I got a chance to fly in a 9A and I found that I liked it better. I should
have test flown both before buying.
Now, I know there is noway to make my 7A fly like the 9, but I was wondering
what effect it would have if I put my 9 emp on the 7? I know I would have to
stay within the limitations of the 9 (160 hp, 3.8G, etc.). Aerobatics is not
something that I'm interested in anyway.
I can't help noticing that my old Cherokee 140 has a short fat wing with a
constant cord HS (OK, it's a stabilator) and flys pretty good.
I know that this is probably going to get me flamed, but my thought was that
the 9 emp would increase the pitch stability. I'm sure there is a down side to
this as well. The VS and the rudder are the same between the 9 and the 7
already. OK, the VS skin is a little thicker on the 7, but otherwise it is the
same. So, I really would only be changing the HS and elevators. Besides, the 7
is already a 9 fuse and rudder with 8 wings (more or less).
Anyone have any ideas on what effects this may have (good and bad)?
Bryon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: New engine and prop... long... |
It looks like Bill simply took the average of the three ground
speeds. Many people do that, but it doesn't give the right answer,
unless there is no wind. The error is probably only a few mph, but
if you are evaluating the effect of a minor performance improvement,
then you need a method that has an error that is less than the amount
of the speed increase from the perf improvement.
Doug - I'm a big fan of your spreadsheet (which is available for
download from my web site). I'm curious - please educate us on how
to use it if the user has headings, and not tracks.
Doug's method of calculating TAS from GPS data has the stamp of
approval from the National Test Pilot School (although they made a
useful mod to do four data runs, to get redundant data so errors
would be noticed). I pointed them at it when I was on a refresher
course there a couple of years ago, and they incorporated it into
their set of standard performance methods.
Doug's spreadsheet:
http://members.rogers.com/khorton/rvlinks/doug_gray/TASCALC.ZIP
The NTPS version:
http://www.ntps.edu/Files/GPS%20PEC.XLS
My Flight Test Links section:
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/phplinks/index.php?PID=1
Kevin Horton
>
>Bill,
>
>What method are you using for this TAS calculation?
>
>If you happen to be using my spreadsheet then a small technical note.
>The GPS track and Groundspeed are input to the computation, not the Heading.
>
>If these are indeed headings all is not lost, I can tell you how to use
>the spread to accomodate this.
>
>Also, it is not necessary to be so precise about the heading you do fly.
>Just record the GPS GS and Track.
>
>Also, did you correct the TAS for Altitude and Temperature?
>
>Doug Gray
>
>> Altitude - MSL: 8000
>> OAT F: 59
>> Full Throttle RPM: 2700
>> Heading:120 - MPH GPS GS: 174
>> Heading:360 - MPH GPS GS: 196
>> Heading:240 - MPH GPS GS: 168
>>
> > MPH TAS from GPS Runs: 179.3
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9A emp on RV-7A |
Here's my opinion....
Sell the empennage kit, you won't have to take a loss - then buy the
emepennage you want. You'll have the right tail with the right plane.
It's not a easy as simply bolting on a different tail and making up your own
limitations. You are WAYYYYY oversimplifying something that is not that
simple. Tails on airplanes interact with the wings, flaps, CG's, etc.. in a
big way.
While your rational may sound safe, there is absolutely no empirical
evenidence to backup your reasoning. There are also other things to think
about as well. What will you insure it as - if you register it as a -7 but
have an entirely different tail, is it insurable in the case of an
incident/accident?? Will Van's give you a bill of sale for it, as a -7
or -9?? What will it do to the CG?? How about flight characteristics with
the flaps deployed/stowed?? Stall characterisitics?? Are you qualified or
do you want to test fly a completely new aircraft type/configuration??
I'm not saying it's impossible, but I would not undertake this endeavor
lightly. Tail kits are easy/quick to build, and you can almost always
re-coupe your investment, so I can't think of any possible reason why you
wouldn't just do it right. If you've already built 2 tail kits, the 3rd
should only take a week or two to whip out. If you like the way the -9
flies, then simply putting the -9 tail on the -7 won't make the -7 fly like
the -9. A large reason the -9 flies like it does is because of that
drastically different wing/flaps (as compared to the -7), not just the
hershy bar stab.
Anyway, don't take it as a flame....I just get worked up when I see people
taking things at a "40 mile high" view, when a closer look really makes your
decision for you.
I'm sure a quick call to Van's would echo the same thing, only probably
stronger.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of BGCrook(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: RV-9A emp on RV-7A
I originally started building a 9A. I got through most of the emp kit when a
local builder convinced me that I would regret not building a 7 instead. So,
I
bought the 7 emp kit and started over. Now that I'm halfway through the
wings
I got a chance to fly in a 9A and I found that I liked it better. I should
have test flown both before buying.
Now, I know there is noway to make my 7A fly like the 9, but I was wondering
what effect it would have if I put my 9 emp on the 7? I know I would have to
stay within the limitations of the 9 (160 hp, 3.8G, etc.). Aerobatics is not
something that I'm interested in anyway.
I can't help noticing that my old Cherokee 140 has a short fat wing with a
constant cord HS (OK, it's a stabilator) and flys pretty good.
I know that this is probably going to get me flamed, but my thought was that
the 9 emp would increase the pitch stability. I'm sure there is a down side
to
this as well. The VS and the rudder are the same between the 9 and the 7
already. OK, the VS skin is a little thicker on the 7, but otherwise it is
the
same. So, I really would only be changing the HS and elevators. Besides, the
7
is already a 9 fuse and rudder with 8 wings (more or less).
Anyone have any ideas on what effects this may have (good and bad)?
Bryon
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> pts rule name |
description pts rule name
description
rule name description pts rule name
description
Scott & Listers,
I just checked out this tool on Summit's web site. It looks exactly like
the 45 degree flaring kits sold by many tool companies. I can't tell by the
photo, does the 2 piece yoke have concentric circles cut into the inner
diameter of the various holes to hold the tubing? Most of the 45 degree
automotive units have this. The purpose of these knurled circles is to help
keep the tubing (normally steel on cars) from slipping, during the flaring
operation. This knurling will cause rather nasty marks on our soft aluminum
tubing. (I suppose you could overcome that by adding a layer of tape to the
inside of this area)
Has anyone purchased one of these tools yet? If so, does it come with a
set of dies to allow you to perform double flaring??
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
>I noticed in the new Summit Racing catalog that they now have a 37 degree
>one. The part number is SUM-900311 and it's $34.95. I believe they are
>free shipping too?
>
>Scott DellAngelo
>#90598 flaps, fuselage shipping 7/19
>Looking for an O-320
>
>
>Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Antenna question |
Should the center female pin of the antenna connector have continuity with the
antenna whip? My base has continuity with the otter part of the connector but
the whip has continuity with nothing. I am having radio problems and trying
to determine if the antenna is the problem.
Jerry Calvert
RV6
N296RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna question |
Jerry Calvert wrote:
>
>Should the center female pin of the antenna connector have continuity with the
antenna whip?
>
yes
linn
> My base has continuity with the otter part of the connector but the whip has
continuity with nothing. I am having radio problems and trying to determine
if the antenna is the problem.
>
>Jerry Calvert
>RV6
>N296RV
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Antenna question |
Sounds like an open connection. Yes, the center pin must have continuity to
the whip or no antenna effectively.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Ford" <dford(at)michweb.net> |
| Subject: | carrying pressurized cylinders |
I have the option of flying my RV6 to go pick up a 30 lb. cylinder of freon since
it is not shippable by the sender due to hazmat policies. I'm quite sure
there is no danger in flying a cylinder to higher altitudes but just wanted to
see if anyone on the list could verify the safety factor here. Thanks,
Dave Ford
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <jammeter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
>
>I have the option of flying my RV6 to go pick up a 30 lb. cylinder of freon since
it is not shippable by the sender due to hazmat policies. I'm quite sure
there is no danger in flying a cylinder to higher altitudes but just wanted to
see if anyone on the list could verify the safety factor here. Thanks,
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
I'm not an engineer but you can consider this.... Since the
difference between sea level air pressure and the vacuum of
space is only about 15 PSI and I'm sure you'll not be
anywhere near that altitude, I doubt very much that a
relative increase in pressure of your freon cylinder of 3 to
5 psi will have any effect at all.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Gasket |
After installing the Fuel sender today with rubber gasket I am wondering if I should
have used any additional sealing compound to prevent leaks. What have others
done with this and has leaking been a problem just using the gasket?
Mark Phipps, N242RP, Almost Flying
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | UV Smooth Prime (fiberglass - Ugh!) |
I am finishing up my wheel fairings. Having used polyfiber's UV smooth
Prime on my tail fairing (great stuff) I went to mix up a batch for the
wheel fairings. Well after sitting on the shelf in my hot arizona garage
for about a year and a half, the little bottle of hardener has turned
into a rubbery solid. Still looks the same, but shakes like Jello.
Does any one know if this stuff can be revitalized by adding in some
(presumably long-ago-evaporated) solvent? Or is it toast? For that
matter, is the smooth prime itself still usable or do I have to buy new?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Sender Gasket |
Mark,
We had some seepage on our 6 year old 6a. It had a rubber gasket
installed dry. After kinda squishing the gasket a little by
re-tightening and making the leak worse, we replaced the gasket and
gooped it with titeseal. On the 6 I'm building, I sealed with proseal
and no gasket. I don't think a dry gasket is a good long term bet.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of mark phipps
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gasket
After installing the Fuel sender today with rubber gasket I am wondering
if I should have used any additional sealing compound to prevent leaks.
What have others done with this and has leaking been a problem just
using the gasket?
Mark Phipps, N242RP, Almost Flying
---------------------------------
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Anglin <jlanglin44(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: carrying pressurized cylinders |
Isn't an oxygen system powered by a pressurized cylinder (if "powered" is the right
term)?
Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: John Ammeter <jammeter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: carrying pressurized cylinders
>
>I have the option of flying my RV6 to go pick up a 30 lb. cylinder of freon since
it is not shippable by the sender due to hazmat policies. I'm quite sure
there is no danger in flying a cylinder to higher altitudes but just wanted to
see if anyone on the list could verify the safety factor here. Thanks,
>
>Dave Ford
>RV6
>
I'm not an engineer but you can consider this.... Since the
difference between sea level air pressure and the vacuum of
space is only about 15 PSI and I'm sure you'll not be
anywhere near that altitude, I doubt very much that a
relative increase in pressure of your freon cylinder of 3 to
5 psi will have any effect at all.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: flaring tool |
Hi Scott,
I have not seen the unit you describe but because of several past
experiences with other makes of the same type of tool that you describe I
would rather have the Parker 37 degree Rolo-Flair flaring tool that both
Avery tools and Cleaveland Tools offer in their Catalogs.
After a few practice runs with the suggested tool I was able to produce
perfect (well, as near as is possible);-) flares without the nasty
striations that a few other flaring tools I tried out insisted on making.
The extra cost per flair on my system was not really an issue to me and it
is out on loan to a fellow builder. The local FBO took one look at the
flares this unit produced and immediately ordered one for themselves.
Jim in Kelowna - the to-do list is getting quite short {[:-)!
----- Original Message -----
rule name description pts rule name
description
>
> Scott & Listers,
> I just checked out this tool on Summit's web site. It looks exactly like
> the 45 degree flaring kits sold by many tool companies. I can't tell by
the
> photo, does the 2 piece yoke have concentric circles cut into the inner
> diameter of the various holes to hold the tubing? Most of the 45 degree
> automotive units have this. The purpose of these knurled circles is to
help
> keep the tubing (normally steel on cars) from slipping, during the flaring
> operation. This knurling will cause rather nasty marks on our soft
aluminum
> tubing. (I suppose you could overcome that by adding a layer of tape to
the
> inside of this area)
> Has anyone purchased one of these tools yet? If so, does it come with a
> set of dies to allow you to perform double flaring??
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> >
> >
> >I noticed in the new Summit Racing catalog that they now have a 37 degree
> >one. The part number is SUM-900311 and it's $34.95. I believe they are
> >free shipping too?
> >
> >Scott DellAngelo
> >#90598 flaps, fuselage shipping 7/19
> >Looking for an O-320
> >
> >
> >Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Flightline Interiors at OSH |
Abby from Flightline asked me to inquire: Any RVs with Flightline
interior kits which will be at Oshkosh?`` She will be there and plans
to meet with many customers/ prospective customers, but wanted a
heads-up on how many of her interiors will be there.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: flaring tool |
Ditto that! Spend the money or borrow a good flaring tool and throw away the
clumsy clamp types that don't do as good of a job anyway....The parker tool
is top notch and "almost" idiot proof.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Jewell
Subject: RV-List: Re: flaring tool
Hi Scott,
I have not seen the unit you describe but because of several past
experiences with other makes of the same type of tool that you describe I
would rather have the Parker 37 degree Rolo-Flair flaring tool that both
Avery tools and Cleaveland Tools offer in their Catalogs.
After a few practice runs with the suggested tool I was able to produce
perfect (well, as near as is possible);-) flares without the nasty
striations that a few other flaring tools I tried out insisted on making.
The extra cost per flair on my system was not really an issue to me and it
is out on loan to a fellow builder. The local FBO took one look at the
flares this unit produced and immediately ordered one for themselves.
Jim in Kelowna - the to-do list is getting quite short {[:-)!
----- Original Message -----
rule name description pts rule name
description
>
> Scott & Listers,
> I just checked out this tool on Summit's web site. It looks exactly like
> the 45 degree flaring kits sold by many tool companies. I can't tell by
the
> photo, does the 2 piece yoke have concentric circles cut into the inner
> diameter of the various holes to hold the tubing? Most of the 45 degree
> automotive units have this. The purpose of these knurled circles is to
help
> keep the tubing (normally steel on cars) from slipping, during the flaring
> operation. This knurling will cause rather nasty marks on our soft
aluminum
> tubing. (I suppose you could overcome that by adding a layer of tape to
the
> inside of this area)
> Has anyone purchased one of these tools yet? If so, does it come with a
> set of dies to allow you to perform double flaring??
> Charlie Kuss
>
> >
> >
> >
> >I noticed in the new Summit Racing catalog that they now have a 37 degree
> >one. The part number is SUM-900311 and it's $34.95. I believe they are
> >free shipping too?
> >
> >Scott DellAngelo
> >#90598 flaps, fuselage shipping 7/19
> >Looking for an O-320
> >
> >
> >Only $14.95/ month -visit www.netzero.com to sign up today!
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gasket |
There was a short blurb in the RV-Aviator in one of the issues earlier this
year. It was not in the form of an alert or builder's change but it was
written by Vans and it basically said to eliminate possible fuel leaks at
the cork gasket, you should remove the gasket and seal it back up using
proseal without the gasket. They have apparently be showing some leaks
after several years. I took my ends off and redid them. Much, much easier
now with the wings off than later with them on.
The RV-Aviator is a needed publication IMHO.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
----- Original Message -----
From: "mark phipps" <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Sender Gasket
>
> After installing the Fuel sender today with rubber gasket I am wondering
if I should have used any additional sealing compound to prevent leaks. What
have others done with this and has leaking been a problem just using the
gasket?
>
> Mark Phipps, N242RP, Almost Flying
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Walker" <ron(at)walker.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender Gasket |
July 14, 2004 - July 21, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-pn