RV-Archive.digest.vol-ps
August 30, 2004 - September 07, 2004
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> |
Andy, I was never happy with a single bolt holding the elevator horns
together and as an attach point for the control tube. So I've always drilled
another hole in the horns and added another through bolt with a steel tubing
spacer and it really firms up the elevators as an assembly. My thought is
that if I loose the control tube for some reason I can use elevator trim to
maintain flight. And I'd like them both to be doing the same thing...
steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aircraft Technical
Book Company
Subject: RV-List: elevator play
My -6A elevators, after about 200 hours, have developed about 1/2 of play
(1/4" up and down) relative to each other at the trailing edge. I'm
guessing at the number, as I haven't actually measured it yet. I find this
when, on pre-flight, I grap both trailing edges, and pull one up while
pushing the other down.
Has anyone else noticed this "problem"? I'm not sure what could cause this
other than a slight (very slight) elongation of the hole in the control
horns. Perhaps there is a better way to tie the 2 horns together than just
the single bolt from the push/pull tube bearing.
Andy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Results of Annual Inspection on my -4 |
>Again, I found a severly cracked plate that mounts the airbox to the air
>induction/fuel metering system. This same part was found cracked and
>replaced at last year's annual. My current hypothesis is that the lower
>cowl pre-loads the airbox via the rubber snout at the air intake. I have
>cut away a small portion of the snout in an attempt to relieve the preload
>without sacraficing seal quality. Clearly, I will have to keep an eye on
>this.
Thanks for the reminder! I also have a crack in the same FAB plate. Annual
is due next month so gotta get one ordered. Not sure if it's the boot to
the cowling or just Lycosaur shake in general that cracks them.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | New Lycoming 360 aluminum CS propeller for sale |
Hi All,
A couple of you might be interested in this for your RV.
For the Lycoming 360 engine. Especially the non-counterweighted crankshaft
engine.
MT Propeller is offering their aluminum blade 2 blade propeller for $6,399
plus shipping and any applicable sales tax.
There is no mid range RPM restriction on any Lycoming 360 engine when using
this propeller. (Designed determined by analysis and verified by vibration
testing in flight.)
The propeller comes complete with a fabricated spinner to match your cowl
installation.
The MT governor is available for $1,000. No additional shipping charge when
ordered with the MT Propeller.
Propeller shipping charges are $80 for crating and $280 for delivery to you
door in the USA lower 48.
Delivered without spinner attached. Requires rear bulkhead bolts to be
safety wired, and spinner to be installed.
I can be contacted at _jim(at)lessdrag.com_ (mailto:jim(at)lessdrag.com) , or by
calling me at (805) 795-5377.
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
HR2 OEM distributor for MT Propeller
_www.lessdrag.com_ (http://www.lessdrag.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Results of Annual Inspection on my -4 |
At 10:51 AM 8/30/2004, you wrote:
>
>
> >Again, I found a severly cracked plate that mounts the airbox to the air
> >induction/fuel metering system. This same part was found cracked and
> >replaced at last year's annual. My current hypothesis is that the lower
> >cowl pre-loads the airbox via the rubber snout at the air intake. I have
> >cut away a small portion of the snout in an attempt to relieve the preload
> >without sacraficing seal quality. Clearly, I will have to keep an eye on
> >this.
Why is it important to have a seal between the snout of the airbox and the
cowling intake hole? I had a rubber seal there when I purchased my RV-4.
Because of vibration, it tore away and the close fitting snout gauged away
some of the glass around the intake opening. I cut back the snout about 1/4
inch. I never replaced the seal. I have seen no problem, but that does not
meant that there IS no problem. I have an IO-360 with C/S prop. Am I
missing something? Thanks.
Louis
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF, 420 Hrs. "Miss Viagra"
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: elevator play |
In a message dated 8/30/2004 6:56:39 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com writes:
Has anyone else noticed this "problem"? I'm not sure what could cause this
other than a slight (very slight) elongation of the hole in the control
horns. Perhaps there is a better way to tie the 2 horns together than just the
single bolt from the push/pull tube bearing.
==================================
I never liked the way this was engineered so I drilled a hole and installed
a second bolt and spacer about 1 inch aft of the push rod attach bolt. I
have zero play and this is something I always check during preflight.
I agree that play here is a very bad thing and must be fixed ASAP.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Results of Annual Inspection on my -4 |
I have also found that the cracks start where the mounting bolts go
through. I looked closely and noticed the the bolt is not square to the
surface so the washer really digs in and that is exactly where the crack
starts from. I have AFP injection which has a different FAB mounting, I think.
>
>
> >Again, I found a severly cracked plate that mounts the airbox to the air
> >induction/fuel metering system. This same part was found cracked and
> >replaced at last year's annual. My current hypothesis is that the lower
> >cowl pre-loads the airbox via the rubber snout at the air intake. I have
> >cut away a small portion of the snout in an attempt to relieve the preload
> >without sacraficing seal quality. Clearly, I will have to keep an eye on
> >this.
>
>Thanks for the reminder! I also have a crack in the same FAB plate. Annual
>is due next month so gotta get one ordered. Not sure if it's the boot to
>the cowling or just Lycosaur shake in general that cracks them.
>
>Brian Denk
>RV8 N94BD
>RV10 '51
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Results of Annual Inspection on my -4 |
Your are probably loosing some ram air effect.
>
>At 10:51 AM 8/30/2004, you wrote:
> >
> >
> > >Again, I found a severly cracked plate that mounts the airbox to the air
> > >induction/fuel metering system. This same part was found cracked and
> > >replaced at last year's annual. My current hypothesis is that the lower
> > >cowl pre-loads the airbox via the rubber snout at the air intake. I have
> > >cut away a small portion of the snout in an attempt to relieve the preload
> > >without sacraficing seal quality. Clearly, I will have to keep an eye on
> > >this.
>
>Why is it important to have a seal between the snout of the airbox and the
>cowling intake hole? I had a rubber seal there when I purchased my RV-4.
>Because of vibration, it tore away and the close fitting snout gauged away
>some of the glass around the intake opening. I cut back the snout about 1/4
>inch. I never replaced the seal. I have seen no problem, but that does not
>meant that there IS no problem. I have an IO-360 with C/S prop. Am I
>missing something? Thanks.
>
>Louis
>
>
>-
>Louis I Willig
>1640 Oakwood Dr.
>Penn Valley, PA 19072
>610 668-4964
>RV-4, N180PF, 420 Hrs. "Miss Viagra"
>190HP IO-360, C/S prop
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Results of Annual Inspection on my -4 |
The seal between the cowl and the airbox is intended to ensure that all the
air entering the air intake in the lower cowl goes directly into the airbox.
Any leakage at that joint will prevent the engine from delivering full
power. Does your system produce at least 24" manfiold pressure at 2400 rpm
at 7500 feet? If yes, I'll trim a little more from my seal.
Dean
----Original Message Follows----
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Results of Annual Inspection on my -4
Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 11:40:50 -0400
At 10:51 AM 8/30/2004, you wrote:
>
>
> >Again, I found a severly cracked plate that mounts the airbox to the air
> >induction/fuel metering system. This same part was found cracked and
> >replaced at last year's annual. My current hypothesis is that the lower
> >cowl pre-loads the airbox via the rubber snout at the air intake. I
have
> >cut away a small portion of the snout in an attempt to relieve the
preload
> >without sacraficing seal quality. Clearly, I will have to keep an eye
on
> >this.
Why is it important to have a seal between the snout of the airbox and the
cowling intake hole? I had a rubber seal there when I purchased my RV-4.
Because of vibration, it tore away and the close fitting snout gauged away
some of the glass around the intake opening. I cut back the snout about 1/4
inch. I never replaced the seal. I have seen no problem, but that does not
meant that there IS no problem. I have an IO-360 with C/S prop. Am I
missing something? Thanks.
Louis
-
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF, 420 Hrs. "Miss Viagra"
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
Doug,
There's plenty to see on Ssturday and Sunday morning. Pretty much everybody
comes in by Satyrday at noon. Then most of them stick around until Sunday
afternoon. There are normally over 100 RV's in attendance and the Van's
factory in open. Breakfast (Saturday and Sunday) and lunch (Saturday) is
available at the factory. Saturday dinner is 9on your own with the Van's
dinner saturday night at a local hotel. Usually at the Holiday Inn in
Wilsonville.
Mike Robertson
>From: Doug Shenk <dshenk3(at)bresnan.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Homecoming
>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 00:47:58 -0600
>
>
>I may get a chance to get to Portland this weekend and go the homecoming
>for the first time. My question is how Saturday and Sunday compare with
>respect to amount of activity and to how many RV's are likely to be
>available for inspection (read: get a much needed dose of
>inspiration!). I suspect I will have to leave fairly early Sunday and
>wondering how much of the event I'll miss.
>Any info appreciated and you can let me know off list. Thanks. Do
>not archive.
>dshenk3(at)bresnan.net rv6a quickbuild kit but slowbuild technique!
>
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: 5 point harness on RV6 |
Shirly: Van's has a 5th point harness kit that I installed in my -6 with just
a little tweaking here and there. Maybe I was just lucky (which would be a
first) but the kit, which I think is for the RV-7 or 9, went in with just a few
mods in my non predrilled slow build -6.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <rv6flyer(at)improvementteam.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grass runway length for RV's? |
A procedure I used on a 1700' grass strip with my 170 (180hp, CS) was
similar. I had to clear trees on the approach end so I used full flaps and
then ended up picking up a little airspeed when getting down just past the
trees but with johnson bar flaps you can drop them the minute the wheels
touch to increase stall speed and it helps to make sure you stay put.
Easily landed with 1000' of runway left in front.
Point here again is good short field landing technique.
Tim Bryan
RV-6 N616TB
Flying This Year!
-------Original Message-------
From: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Date: 08/29/04 21:55:14
Subject: Re: RV-List: grass runway length for RV's?
net>
Years ago, I practiced spot landing with maximum effort stops on a grass
runway prior to going into a one-way, 1700' strip with tall trees at one end
and a fruit orchard on the approach end, plus it was uphill( a plus) with
the wind above the trees occasionally a tailwind for departure( not a plus).
The first time I actually landed on the strip I had been practicing for, in
a 180 hp, fixed-pitch wooden prop RV-4, two-up( owner in the back), it sure
looked short while we were on final, but the slope contributed to that
appearance.
We actually aimed for the treetops on the approach end as the lift of the
wings will keep our flight path slightly above that, and practically drove
the machine right onto the ground with only a slight flare to preclude a
bounce.A wheel landing was used to eliminate float, followed by raising the
tail to kill the lift while coming on the brakes moderately until an overrun
was not in the cards, and we used less than half the runway.
This was at sea level, on a summer day, which on the Pacific Coast means
around 20C. Add a little lift from the extra bouyancy of both of us holding
our breaths during the latter stages of teh approach and landing.....
The departure was equally impressive due to the performance of these
machines, and that's without a constant-speed prop. Taxi up against the tall
trees, swing the tail almost into the trunks, full power, minimum-drag
attitude for acceleration, hold it level after liftoff for a little extra
airspeed when encountering that slight tailwind at the treetop level and
there's plenty of room left.
Which is a long way of saying that you should be fine within the parameters
you describe. Walk off the distance on a longer runway, then perhaps
practice to see how it feels and performs for you before committing
yourself.
SCott in VAncouver
----- Original Message -----
From: <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Subject: RV-List: grass runway length for RV's?
>
> Guys,
>
> For those of you with experience flying RV's off grass strips, what would
> you consider the minimum safe runway length? I know, it depends on a
> variety of factors, so in this case lets assume no obstacles at either
> end higher than 6' (i.e. a cornfield in August) and no higher terrain or
> obstacles beyond that, relatively level & smooth runway surface,
> operating at gross weight with 180hp / CS, on a hot/humid day (say 95 F)
> at 880' msl, with no headwind. Maybe throw in a bit of dew or post-rain
> moisture on the grass to reduce braking effectiveness, and this would be
> about the worst case scenario for me here in Iowa. Would 1700' be
> adequate under these conditions? I imagine takeoff would be a non-event,
> so landing and getting stopped without too much pucker factor would be my
> main concern....
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D finishing....
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: re: new near vision procedure |
> What is the safest way for us over 40 group to fly with near vision
> problems.??
> It drives me nuts. I wear contacts for distance...
> I am curious what others are doing to solve the problem without having the
> wife navigate.
> Doug Brinlee
This might be a good solution...
http://www.airplanethings.com/av-sun.htm
Up until just this year, age 51, I could read charts in the cockpit no
problem. Was just up in another guy's plane last weekend and he tossed me a
chart and asked me to get a frequency for him. Whoa, almost couldn't get it!
I'm ordering some of these sunglasses.
Randy Lervold
www.rv-3.com
www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: new near vision procedure |
I've had the classic presbyopia pattern graduating from reading glasses to
full-time no-line bifocals. But I kept flying with stick-on bifocals on my
Serengeti's until this year. I was relatively happy with them but at my
recent eye exam I finally broke down and got prescription no-line
sunglasses. The difference is phenomenal. Everything, at any distance, is
now crystal clear. I can even read the Tachymeter scale on my new watch;-) I
can't believe I waited so long to get them.
Greg Young
>
> > What is the safest way for us over 40 group to fly with near vision
> > problems.??
> > It drives me nuts. I wear contacts for distance...
> > I am curious what others are doing to solve the problem
> without having
> > the wife navigate.
> > Doug Brinlee
>
> This might be a good solution...
> http://www.airplanethings.com/av-sun.htm
>
> Up until just this year, age 51, I could read charts in the
> cockpit no problem. Was just up in another guy's plane last
> weekend and he tossed me a chart and asked me to get a
> frequency for him. Whoa, almost couldn't get it!
> I'm ordering some of these sunglasses.
>
> Randy Lervold
> www.rv-3.com
> www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Cowling to airbox clearance- (was: Results of Annual Inspection |
on my -4)
In a message dated 8/30/04 11:20:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
deanpichon(at)msn.com writes:
> The seal between the cowl and the airbox is intended to ensure that all the
>
> air entering the air intake in the lower cowl goes directly into the airbox.
>
>
>>>>
I would also imagine that leakage here (being higher pressure in the inlet
vs. inside the cowling) would also raise the pressure inside the cowling
somewhat and reduce the pressure differential across the cylinders and therefore
allow less cooling air flow. Not tested, just surmising here........
Brian and the original poster who experienced cracking: How much clearance
did y'all have between your airbox and inlet?
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Panel Cut-out for 2 1/4" Instrument |
| From: | "Clinchy, Dave" <clinchd(at)losrios.edu> |
Hi All,
Anyone have the dimensions and/or template for cutting the panel for a generic
2 =BC" instrument? I want to cut my panel now, but don't have the vertical card
compass or turn coordinator yet.
I asked Vans and they said check aircraft spruce, which I already did and I found
a template for 3 1/8 but not 2 =BC.
Thanks
Dave Clinchy
7 wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grass runway length for RV's? |
I have an RV-6A with 160 HP and a cruise prop, which floats a lot more that a C/S
prop and I routinely stop in 1000 feet on my runway. Don't carry any extra
speed on final and you will be OK with 1700 feet.
Jim Cone
3-peat offender
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cowling to airbox clearance- (was: Results of Annual Inspection |
on my -4)
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cowling to airbox clearance- (was: Results of Annual
Inspection on my -4)
>
> In a message dated 8/30/04 11:20:56 AM Central Daylight Time,
> deanpichon(at)msn.com writes:
>
> > The seal between the cowl and the airbox is intended to ensure that all
the
> >
> > air entering the air intake in the lower cowl goes directly into the
airbox.
> >
> >
>
> >>>>
>
> I would also imagine that leakage here (being higher pressure in the inlet
> vs. inside the cowling) would also raise the pressure inside the cowling
> somewhat and reduce the pressure differential across the cylinders and
therefore
> allow less cooling air flow. Not tested, just surmising here........
(((((((())))))
[Larry] You are surmising correctly. You want the lower cowling area to be
a low pressure area, sucking or freely accepting air from higher pressure
of the plenum area or upper cowling as it cools the cylinders. Allowing air
to flow into the lower cowling area from the FAB air intake opening would be
counter productive in a couple of ways. Lower manifold pressure for the
carb and less cooling.
>
> Brian and the original poster who experienced cracking: How much
clearance
> did y'all have between your airbox and inlet?
(((((()))))
[Larry] One of the things I noticed on my 7 is the engine mount and the
engine is offset to the left while the cowling is not. This causes a tight
fit along the left side near the FAB at the bottom. Is it possible the FAB
is rubbing or contacting the cowling which puts pressure on the plate
causing the cracks? There should be some sign of this on the inside lower
cowling if it is happening.
>
> From The PossumWorks in TN
> Mark -6A
((((((((()))))))))))
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in
meeting and solving problems, in facing facts, in being a dependable person.
- Richard L. Evans
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: >Re:grass runway length for RV's |
I fly my RV-4, 150 HP & wood prop from our 1100' grass strip @ 460 MSL.
I haven't often used more than half of the length going or coming. I go
downhill for takeoff and land uphill, just a slight slope. My neighbor let me cut
an oak tree on his property so I can come straight in, between the trees, to
the runway end.
I put vortex generators on the wings and it really made a difference. My
stall is 6-8 MPH less and very stable at the low speeds.
I only fly solo thus far but will start testing at greater weights soon.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
EZ-pilot stuff has been addressed a lot in the recent past, one has but to
do a search.
That said it was able to correctly place me in 46 of the 48 states this
summer, and was never more than 120ft off course. At most times it was
within 60 ft of course. The Navaid would never be this close, and in fact is
ususally .25 miles or more off course.
The EZ-pilot will make use of turn anticipation data if your GPS supports
this as does a GNS430. This allows for one to set up a 160deg turn to final
approach and have the plane come out of the turn within one tick on the
Localizer.
The unit will display much of your GPS data such as waypoints, ETE, GS etc.
Then you can display more screen or other data on the GPS. I often use the
EZ-pilot to display ETE to way point when close then go to the GPS screen
and set up the next "direct to" but leave it on that screen until within 1/4
mile, then engage the next leg. With RVs having a multi leg plan is a waste
of setup time usually. The only time I've found them usful is when making a
precanned approach such as RIPON > FISK > RWY36.
The LCD TC display is much easier to see in the sunlight then the LED of the
Navaid, or the VFD of the earlier EZ-Pilot.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
If I understand it correctly, part of the problem is when the
'acquiring' pilot perishes in the plane you have built.
the 'estate' of the perished pilot can sue you regardless of all the
agreements signed during sale. The 'estate' did not exsist at the time
of sale but came into being when the pilot perished therefor the estate
is not bound by the contract signed by the persihed pilot.
Of course there will be legal folks correcting me here...
Brian Denk wrote:
>
> Oh certainly. There are disclaimer forms, basically a hold harmless release
> that is commonly used. I think EAA has one and I have a copy stached away
> on my harddrive somewhere. It basically tries to completely separate the
> builder from any and all possible liability once the airplane changes hands.
> It's only a piece of paper though, and I'm sure it could be whittled away
> by a savvy shyster to next to nothing if pursued hard enough.
>
> I'll be dealing with this soon enough when I sell my RV8. Yikes.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51 tailcone/empennage rigging time.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
There are two company which offer that coverage, but that coverage was designed
for the liability you incur from owning/maintaining the plane, not building it.
The first person to be sued and try to recover $ under one of those provisions
is going to likely have to fight for it in court and then those companies
will quickly reword their policies to specifically exclude that coverage.
I'd recommend that you have an annual done on the plane as the pre-buy. That way
you have an independant person stating that the plane was airworthy at the
time of sale. You're always going to be 'on the hook' as the assembler of the
plane, but if you didn't stray from the plans there is little liability there.
If you modified a bunch of things (or anything) there is some liability you've
assumed as the engineer/manufacturer of that part.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: ed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, August 29, 2004 9:19 PM
Subject: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
So one of the reasons they say that homebuilt planes are so much
cheaper is that the builder is on the hook instead of vans for liability
reasons. So I assume that means if you sell your plane, that anyone who ever
touches it after you can sue you if they are in an accident? Has a
homebuilder ever actually been sued in a situation like this?
Any thoughts on how to protect yourself? I imagine having the buyer sign
something saying he understands it is a homebuilt wouldn't help. If nothing
else he could sell it to a 3rd party who never signed such paperwork.
Given all the insurance related talk recently I was wondering if this
is something that people are thinking about.
--Eddie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Vortex generators |
>I put vortex generators on the wings and it really made a difference. My
>stall is 6-8 MPH less and very stable at the low speeds.
Hi Bob,
OK, you've gotta give us more info about this! Got any photos
or other details?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: >Re:grass runway length for RV's |
Hey Bob! You're flying again?? Congratulations and well done!
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex generators |
I tried Micro-aerodynamics VGs a couple years ago. Stall went down maybe 2
mph, cruise went down 5-6 mph. It gave a quicker roll feel - almost
"twitchy" but you got used to it and kind of liked it after awhile. I took
them off after a few hours cause they hurt cruise more than they helped
stall.
I heard Larry Vettermans VGs are a lot better (I think they are bigger and
mount further forward on the wing) I'll try his if a few people verify that
theory. It would be nice to lower my landing speed at our high altitude
airports. I'm definitely going through too many tires and brake liners.
Andy
Winter Park, CO
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
In a message dated 8/30/04 6:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jhelms(at)i1.net
writes:
>
>
> There are two company which offer that coverage, but that coverage was
> designed for the liability you incur from owning/maintaining the plane, not
> building it. The first person to be sued and try to recover $ under one of those
> provisions is going to likely have to fight for it in court and then those
> companies will quickly reword their policies to specifically exclude that
> coverage.
>
> I'd recommend that you have an annual done on the plane as the pre-buy.
> That way you have an independant person stating that the plane was airworthy
at
> the time of sale. You're always going to be 'on the hook' as the assembler
> of the plane, but if you didn't stray from the plans there is little liability
> there. If you modified a bunch of things (or anything) there is some
> liability you've assumed as the engineer/manufacturer of that part.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
>
As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is not
the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going to
do
away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product liability
coverage you as a builder.
Scott Morrow
N548SM RV-6A
28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Panel Cut-out for 2 1/4" Instrument |
>
>Hi All,
>
>
>Anyone have the dimensions and/or template for cutting the panel for
>a generic 2 =BC" instrument? I want to cut my panel now, but don't
>have the vertical card compass or turn coordinator yet.
>
>I asked Vans and they said check aircraft spruce, which I already
>did and I found a template for 3 1/8 but not 2 =BC.
>
Dave,
You can make your own template. The following was posted by Jim Oke
many years ago - it worked great for me (I used some 0.040 steel
sheet I picked up at a scrap yard - aluminum will probably wear from
the drilling, and will eventually get too sloppy):
================
I made my own template out of a scrap of .040 or so 4130 (could have been
2024, of course).
Draw an X with the legs at 90 degs, then two concentric circles at 1 5/16"
and 1 3/4". Drill #40 where all the lines cross - nine holes in total. (The
Aircraft Spruce and Spec catalog has a diagram if you need more layout
info.)
Lay out your panel marking where the center of each instrument face will
lie. Drill #40 at these locations. Cleco the template in place at the center
hole, make sure everything is square, then drill the four holes at the small
or large circle as needed.
Then set you fly cutter as reqd and cut the instrument cut-out using the
center hole as a guide.
Do a few test holes in scrap first to make sure your layout is accurate
before you start on your actual panel. :-)
================
And the following great tip was posted by Dennis Persyk. Of course I
forgot about it, so I never tried it. I just stumbled across it
again when I searched my treasure trove of saved RV-List gems.
================
I recommend a fly cutter and 200 rpm or so in the drill press. Use lots of
clamps.
It is very hard to get the fly cutter radius adjusted just right. Once you
have it at the right radius (determined on many scrap trials), make a cut
1/2 way through some 0.062 stock. When you need to cut another hole that
size, use the half-cut template to adjust the radius. This will get you
repeatable hole diameters to within a few thousandths.
================
Just use some care when laying out the template, and you'll do just fine.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
Saturday, I spent most of the morning flying Young Eagles. I lost count, but it
was 8 or 10 of 'em...
Anyway, I noticed two odd things about my oil temperature gauge (and with 275 hours
on the plane, I'm sure I'd have noticed before now.)
1) With the strobes on (hazy day) the oil temperature gauge immediately read 10-15
degrees higher than with the strobes off. Turning the strobes off returned
the temp gauge to where it was before...
2) Whether the strobes were on or off, the needle on the oil temp gauge had a little
wiggle in it. Kind of like the shakes I get when I've had a little too
much Diet Coke.
The gauge and sender are the Rochester brand, as sold by Aircraft Spruce.
My immediate thoughts are to check the connections on the temperature sender and
gauge.
Any suggestions beyond that?
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | More kit frustration!! |
You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick VanG
for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived next
door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building of
my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things to
fit just irritates the hell out of me.
Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims and
installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together but
NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&... My friend with a Q200
has the same size tires and wheels on his airplane and says that the rim
should just about slide right in with very little hassle. He says he has to
use the same size Chin Shen Taiwanese tires that we do and the only time he
has a problem is with getting them OFF the rims is when he's trying to
replace a tire (the bead sometimes sticks to the rim). I'm probably
beginning to sound like a whiner but does anyone have any words of wisdom on
yet another five minute job that is taking a few hours? Is this a common
problem or am I just lucky enough to have yet another out-of-tolerance piece
of crap that I paid good money for? BTW my buddy with the Q200 says he
almost invariably has to put his Chin Shen tires on a lathe to true them
before using (out of round), is this another problem that's been experienced
in the RV world? Does anyone else make this size tire? Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
It'll get done some day come hell or high water so help me god!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>
> You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick VanG
> for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived next
> door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building of
> my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
> out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
> frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things to
> fit just irritates the hell out of me.
Dean, I am sure I speak for RV builders worldwide who express our
appreciation to you for getting all the out of tolerance parts out of
circulation so the rest of us won't have to deal with them...... ;-)
>
>
> Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims and
> installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together but
> NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
> tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&... My friend with a Q200
> has the same size tires and wheels on his airplane and says that the rim
> should just about slide right in with very little hassle. He says he has to
> use the same size Chin Shen Taiwanese tires that we do and the only time he
> has a problem is with getting them OFF the rims is when he's trying to
> replace a tire (the bead sometimes sticks to the rim). I'm probably
> beginning to sound like a whiner but does anyone have any words of wisdom on
> yet another five minute job that is taking a few hours? Is this a common
> problem or am I just lucky enough to have yet another out-of-tolerance piece
> of crap that I paid good money for? BTW my buddy with the Q200 says he
> almost invariably has to put his Chin Shen tires on a lathe to true them
> before using (out of round), is this another problem that's been experienced
> in the RV world? Does anyone else make this size tire? Thanks.
Just go ahead of bolt the two rim halves together making sure you
haven't pinched the tube. Once the bolts are torqued, add 40-60 lbs of
air to the tire and the bead will pop into place. Then reduce the air
pressure to working pressure.
Don't really see where anything could be out of tolerance. I believe the
wheels are made by Cleveland, and there probably isn't much variation in
the tires. Getting a grip on tire changing is mostly a matter of
figuring out some technique; if you are grunting, you ain't doing it
right. ;-)
Sam Buchanan (lots and lots of practice flippin' tires on the RV-6)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>
>You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick VanG
>for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived next
>door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building of
>my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
>out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
>frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things to
>fit just irritates the hell out of me.
>
>
>Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims and
>installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together but
>NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
>tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&...
>
Come on Dean, tires do not just slide on the rim. You have to do a
little bit of work, Also use a little bit of soapy water
if they are to tight. BTW it is not Van's fault if the tires or rims are
out of tolerence. Did you try both wheels? Did you let all
of the air out of the tubes? It takes a little effort to get the wheel
halves close enough together to get the nuts started on the
bolts. The tires well not go all of the way onto the rim untill you
start putting air into the tire.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: >Re: Vortex generators |
OK Guys;
Here's more info.
I got my vortex generators from Larry Vetterman 605-745-5932 and
installed them with the templates and cement furnished. I painted them to match
the
areas of paint in which they were installed. They are aluminum and curved to
match the wing contour. Cost at that time was $400.00. Instructions were
very good and installation didn't take very long.
I'll post a picture in the matronics photo section.
Hope this helps
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Sam has some good advice. He left out a few items though. Use a lot of
talc on the inside of the tire, on the tube, and on the rim. Rub it in
good. Put the tube in the tire. Remove the valve stem. Use a blow gun
to force some air into the tube and then let it excape. Do this a few
times. Assemble the rims on the tire. You may have to squeeze the rims
together with a large clamp to get the nuts started on the bolts.
Carefully tighten all 3 bolts. Put the valve stem back in and inflate
like Sam advised.
Don't skip the talc. It'll keep the tube from folding over and creasing
..... which will be a leak if the tire loses pressure down the road. It
also allows the tire/tube to shift a little during use. If you want to
replace your tubes each time you replace the tire .... go ahead.
Properly assembled with the talc you can get 6 or 7 tires for each
tube. At least I do. I've never had a problem (yet) with old tubes.
The tubes in my Pitts are original. They're now 23 years old, and I may
replace the tubes next time I change the tires.
Linn
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick VanG
>>for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived next
>>door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building of
>>my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
>>out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
>>frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things to
>>fit just irritates the hell out of me.
>>
>>
>
>Dean, I am sure I speak for RV builders worldwide who express our
>appreciation to you for getting all the out of tolerance parts out of
>circulation so the rest of us won't have to deal with them...... ;-)
>
>
>
>>Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims and
>>installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together but
>>NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
>>tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&... My friend with a Q200
>>has the same size tires and wheels on his airplane and says that the rim
>>should just about slide right in with very little hassle. He says he has to
>>use the same size Chin Shen Taiwanese tires that we do and the only time he
>>has a problem is with getting them OFF the rims is when he's trying to
>>replace a tire (the bead sometimes sticks to the rim). I'm probably
>>beginning to sound like a whiner but does anyone have any words of wisdom on
>>yet another five minute job that is taking a few hours? Is this a common
>>problem or am I just lucky enough to have yet another out-of-tolerance piece
>>of crap that I paid good money for? BTW my buddy with the Q200 says he
>>almost invariably has to put his Chin Shen tires on a lathe to true them
>>before using (out of round), is this another problem that's been experienced
>>in the RV world? Does anyone else make this size tire? Thanks.
>>
>>
>
>
>Just go ahead of bolt the two rim halves together making sure you
>haven't pinched the tube. Once the bolts are torqued, add 40-60 lbs of
>air to the tire and the bead will pop into place. Then reduce the air
>pressure to working pressure.
>
>Don't really see where anything could be out of tolerance. I believe the
>wheels are made by Cleveland, and there probably isn't much variation in
>the tires. Getting a grip on tire changing is mostly a matter of
>figuring out some technique; if you are grunting, you ain't doing it
>right. ;-)
>
>Sam Buchanan (lots and lots of practice flippin' tires on the RV-6)
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | >RE:Vortex generators |
Vortex Generators on RV-4
Bob Olds , RV-4
oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Vortex Generators on Rv-4
This photo shows the positioning as done per instructions .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ed " <ed_88(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
From: "ed \240" <ed_88@hotmai...
So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of you.
I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is
>not
>the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
>product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going
>to do
>away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
>liability
>coverage you as a builder.
>
>Scott Morrow
>N548SM RV-6A
>28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Hi Dean,
Take the valve stem out of the tubes to be sure you have no air pressure in
the tube. When at last you have the rim halves bolted together and the soapy
water on the tire beads, inflate the tire a few times letting the pressure
back to zero again. Then install the valve and bring the tire up to the
maximum pressure suggested on the tire sidewall. Going too much above the
suggested pressure to seat the tire beads might be dangerous. There is a
raised little bead of rubber around the tire beads that will show evenly
just outside of the rim edge when the beads are properly seated. It does
sometimes take a higher than suggested pressure to seat the beads.
Doing as suggested above should allow the tube to streach and settle into
position inside the tire and rim and reduce the chances of getting the stem
off center in the rim and the folds in the tube that can cause premature
tube failures.
Keep at it,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: More kit frustration!!
>
> Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick
>>VanG
>>for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived
>>next
>>door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building
>>of
>>my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
>>out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
>>frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things
>>to
>>fit just irritates the hell out of me.
>>
>>
>>Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims
>>and
>>installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together
>>but
>>NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
>>tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&...
>>
> Come on Dean, tires do not just slide on the rim. You have to do a
> little bit of work, Also use a little bit of soapy water
> if they are to tight. BTW it is not Van's fault if the tires or rims are
> out of tolerence. Did you try both wheels? Did you let all
> of the air out of the tubes? It takes a little effort to get the wheel
> halves close enough together to get the nuts started on the
> bolts. The tires well not go all of the way onto the rim untill you
> start putting air into the tire.
>
> Jerry
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
ed wrote:
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
>considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
>almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
Actually, there is a way. Surrender the airworthiness Certificate and
sell it as junk. I've thought about this but it hasn't been an issue
for me yet. I never get rid of anything but my first wife. :-P
Linn
>
>
>
>
>>As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is
>>not
>>the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
>>product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going
>>to do
>>away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
>>liability
>>coverage you as a builder.
>>
>>Scott Morrow
>>N548SM RV-6A
>>28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>>
>>
>
>Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Jim Jewell wrote:
>
>Hi Dean,
>
>Take the valve stem out of the tubes to be sure you have no air pressure in
>the tube. When at last you have the rim halves bolted together and the soapy
>water on the tire beads,
>
Actually Jim, this will raise the chance that you pinch a tube. It's
hard to make sure that all of the tube is not between the wheel halves
if it's flat. By using the talc to make tube and tire 'slippery',
instead of soapy water, and make it round in the tire so it fits, you
also lessen the chance of a fold. Soapy water is great on a tubeless
tire, but on tubes the talc does much better.
Linn
> inflate the tire a few times letting the pressure
>back to zero again. Then install the valve and bring the tire up to the
>maximum pressure suggested on the tire sidewall. Going too much above the
>suggested pressure to seat the tire beads might be dangerous. There is a
>raised little bead of rubber around the tire beads that will show evenly
>just outside of the rim edge when the beads are properly seated. It does
>sometimes take a higher than suggested pressure to seat the beads.
>Doing as suggested above should allow the tube to streach and settle into
>position inside the tire and rim and reduce the chances of getting the stem
>off center in the rim and the folds in the tube that can cause premature
>tube failures.
>
>Keep at it,
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jerry Springer" <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: More kit frustration!!
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Dean Psiropoulos wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick
>>>VanG
>>>for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived
>>>next
>>>door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building
>>>of
>>>my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
>>>out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
>>>frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things
>>>to
>>>fit just irritates the hell out of me.
>>>
>>>
>>>Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims
>>>and
>>>installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together
>>>but
>>>NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
>>>tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Come on Dean, tires do not just slide on the rim. You have to do a
>>little bit of work, Also use a little bit of soapy water
>>if they are to tight. BTW it is not Van's fault if the tires or rims are
>>out of tolerence. Did you try both wheels? Did you let all
>>of the air out of the tubes? It takes a little effort to get the wheel
>>halves close enough together to get the nuts started on the
>>bolts. The tires well not go all of the way onto the rim untill you
>>start putting air into the tire.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Wavering Gauge |
I'd also check the ground returns on both the Oil temp gauge, transducer
AND on the strobe system. Higher ground impedance can cause the 0volt
reference to move around as the current draw changes due to various
other loads.
AC43-13 says resistance should be less than 0.005ohms between
generator/alternator or battery ground to ground of any electrical device.
Also, check the supply voltage at the Roch. gauge terminals when the
strobes are on versus off.
--
Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | More kit frustration!! |
>
> Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I
> split the rims and installed the tube in the tire and tried
> to put the rim halves together but NO WAY. The rims go into
> the tire maybe a half inch before things get so tight that I
> can't push them in any further, @#$%&...
If you think it is fun putting them on, wait until you have to get one
of those s.o.b.'s back off. I almost took a grinder to the tire. It is
unbelievable how "one" they become with the rims. Doesn't matter if you
use talc. Next time I'm going to try some sort of teflon dust. So,
enjoy the easy part.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 518 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rebibb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Electrical wire labeling |
I read someplace (probably on this list) of someone who used a laser printer
to print labels on plain paper. Used 8pt type on plain paper, cut them into
strips, inserted under clear heatshrink on the wires and all was well. Don't
know if this would work, how they would age, etc, etc. Maybe inkjet would
be better, maybe something other than paper (laserjet colored
tranparencies?) would be an improvement, etc.
Food for thought but if you use it and it works - let us know. I was
planning on experimenting with this technique when I start wiring...
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
In a message dated 8/30/2004 8:50:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
deanpsir(at)easystreet.com writes:
<>
I have the same problem. I have installed a lot of tires on rims but this
one takes the cake. I used lots of talc, drum sanded the tire bead, inflated
the tire to 90 lbs and let it set overnight. The tire bead never came closer
than 3/8" to the rim.
I called Van's and they had no clue. I have ordered a new tire on their
recommendation. If that doesn't work we will check the dimension tolerances of
the wheel.
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer... |
vansairforce
I am getting ready to install a new Blue Mountain Sport
[http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/esportmain.php] and their two axis
autopilot in my -8A and am wondering where people are putting their remote
magnetometers? I've read a bunch of the archives and like where Sam put his
on the rear deck below the vertical stab I think), but am curious... Don't
all the bolts back there that hold the tail on cause problems? What about
my strobe high voltage cabling? Any thoughts?
Anyone else have a good spot on in the -8 to put this thing?
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane
bill(at)vondane.com
RV-8A - Colorado Springs
EAA Tech Counselor
www.vondane.com
www.rv8a.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
There are a couple of things you can do to get a tire off the rim. I
have a large vice that I can set the tire in and tighten right next to
the rim. Works for one side. The second step is really riskey, but it
works. Take the largest flat-blade screwdriver and force it between the
rim and tire. DO NOT PUT PRESSURE ON THE VERY OUTSIDE EDGE OF THE RIM.
Yes, I yelled. You stand a really big chance of buying a wheel along
with the new tire!!!! Press down on the screwdriver towards the tire.
Move over a couple of inches and repeat, going all around the tire until
the bead pops loose. As for the talc ..... most folks don't put the
talc on the wheel rims. I do and don't have problems getting the tires
off. However, alex could be right .... but it works for me.
Linn
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>If you think it is fun putting them on, wait until you have to get one
>of those s.o.b.'s back off. I almost took a grinder to the tire. It is
>unbelievable how "one" they become with the rims. Doesn't matter if you
>use talc. Next time I'm going to try some sort of teflon dust. So,
>enjoy the easy part.
>
>Alex Peterson
>Maple Grove, MN
>RV6-A N66AP 518 hours
>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Christopher Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | A/C construction insurance |
Insurance question (hope I dont offend the purists)
After reading the posts re homeowners insurance not covering A/C construction parts
and projects I decided to check my policy. Sure enough Allstate specifically
excludes A/C and A/C parts and everything related. This is a shock since
I have two half completed RV-8s in my shop. (I am building one and a friend is
building the other)
My question to you is this: What are you doing to insure your project until you
get your airworthiness certificate? Does your coverage include your labor?
Chris Stone
RV-8 Wings
Newberg, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wavering Gauge |
cgalley wrote:
>
>I would first clean the battery terminals as the battery smoothes out the
>system. Poor connections here create problems elsewhere.
>
>Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
>Safety Programs Editor - TC
>EAA Sport Pilot
>
A very good point Cy. The other thing to check is to make sure that you
have a good (two is better) ground strap around the motor mount isolators.
Linn ...... slowly emerging from the cobwebs. Things I haven't thought
about in a long time!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Getting a grip on tire changing is mostly a matter of
figuring out some technique; if you are grunting, you ain't doing it
right. ;-)
Sam Buchanan (lots and lots of practice flippin' tires on the RV-6)
Sam: I'll take any tips you have on breaking the bead in the nosewheel tire, as
it's a job I have to do again soon (slow leak in a new tube) and I find it a
most frustrating and difficult task. I've tried whacking with a dead-blow hammer,
prying with a wide flat screwdriver, and pinching the tire beads together
in a bench vise, but they give up only with all my strength and patience expended.
Fire away; I'm ready to copy!
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A/C construction insurance |
Generally, you call an aviation insurance company and get them to issue you
a policy that covers your project. You determine how much insurance to
carry, then pay for that amount of insurance. If you want to cover your
labor, fine, if not, that's OK too. If I remember correctly, my old policy
valued my labor at something like $25/hr.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Stone" <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: A/C construction insurance
>
> Insurance question (hope I dont offend the purists)
>
> After reading the posts re homeowners insurance not covering A/C
construction parts and projects I decided to check my policy. Sure enough
Allstate specifically excludes A/C and A/C parts and everything related.
This is a shock since I have two half completed RV-8s in my shop. (I am
building one and a friend is building the other)
>
> My question to you is this: What are you doing to insure your project
until you get your airworthiness certificate? Does your coverage include
your labor?
>
> Chris Stone
> RV-8 Wings
> Newberg, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
> Sam: I'll take any tips you have on breaking the bead in the
> nosewheel tire, as it's a job I have to do again soon (slow leak in a
> new tube) and I find it a most frustrating and difficult task. I've
> tried whacking with a dead-blow hammer, prying with a wide flat
> screwdriver, and pinching the tire beads together in a bench vise,
> but they give up only with all my strength and patience expended.
>
> Fire away; I'm ready to copy!
>
> -Stormy
Stormy, I'm going to defer to those who have more experience with the
nose wheel than I. With the mains, I stand on the beads; the first side
usually pops off readily and the second sometimes requires some gentle
persuasion with a tire iron. All this is done after the rotor has been
removed from the wheel.
It does sound as if the little wheel is more of a character-builder than
the main tires. :-)
By the way, make sure your slow leak is not due to a faulty valve stem.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wavering Gauge |
Odds are you don't have everything grounded to one spot, and your gauge is reacting
to the different ground potentials between two different points in the ground
system/airframe as the strobe power supply draws its pulsating current.
The gauge won't be steady unless the ground reference voltage is steady. There's
a whole chapter in the AeroElectric Connection on this problem and its cures.
-Stormy
-wish I had read that book before I built my RV!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A/C construction insurance |
Most folks get builder's insurance at some point in their project, I did
about the time the avionics went in, but others might do it sooner. It's
cheap insurance.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Stone" <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: A/C construction insurance
>
> Insurance question (hope I dont offend the purists)
>
> After reading the posts re homeowners insurance not covering A/C
construction parts and projects I decided to check my policy. Sure enough
Allstate specifically excludes A/C and A/C parts and everything related.
This is a shock since I have two half completed RV-8s in my shop. (I am
building one and a friend is building the other)
>
> My question to you is this: What are you doing to insure your project
until you get your airworthiness certificate? Does your coverage include
your labor?
>
> Chris Stone
> RV-8 Wings
> Newberg, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Or you could get Spruce's cheap bead breaker...I have had one and has worked
great for years. P/n 12-16790 at $129. Ok, maybe not so cheap any more...
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: tire stuff
>
> There are a couple of things you can do to get a tire off the rim. I
> have a large vice that I can set the tire in and tighten right next to
> the rim. Works for one side. The second step is really riskey, but it
> works. Take the largest flat-blade screwdriver and force it between the
> rim and tire. DO NOT PUT PRESSURE ON THE VERY OUTSIDE EDGE OF THE RIM.
> Yes, I yelled. You stand a really big chance of buying a wheel along
> with the new tire!!!! Press down on the screwdriver towards the tire.
> Move over a couple of inches and repeat, going all around the tire until
> the bead pops loose. As for the talc ..... most folks don't put the
> talc on the wheel rims. I do and don't have problems getting the tires
> off. However, alex could be right .... but it works for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> >
> >If you think it is fun putting them on, wait until you have to get one
> >of those s.o.b.'s back off. I almost took a grinder to the tire. It is
> >unbelievable how "one" they become with the rims. Doesn't matter if you
> >use talc. Next time I'm going to try some sort of teflon dust. So,
> >enjoy the easy part.
> >
> >Alex Peterson
> >Maple Grove, MN
> >RV6-A N66AP 518 hours
> >http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A/C construction insurance |
http://www.rvproject.com/insurance.html
The builder's risk policy that I had with Nationair valued my labor at
$15/hour. It had a sliding value scale that was based on invoices/receipts.
It was about $400/year...well worth it in my opinion given how many stories
I've heard about theft, vandalism, and the neighbor kids burning down sheds
and stuff like that (seriously).
I know some people who save the $$$ and insure their project with Smith &
Wesson...I guess that works, too. 8-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Stone" <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: A/C construction insurance
>
> Insurance question (hope I dont offend the purists)
>
> After reading the posts re homeowners insurance not covering A/C
construction parts and projects I decided to check my policy. Sure enough
Allstate specifically excludes A/C and A/C parts and everything related.
This is a shock since I have two half completed RV-8s in my shop. (I am
building one and a friend is building the other)
>
> My question to you is this: What are you doing to insure your project
until you get your airworthiness certificate? Does your coverage include
your labor?
>
> Chris Stone
> RV-8 Wings
> Newberg, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman(at)cox.net> |
Or find a local tire shop that can handle the small rim. I found one 3
minutes from the airport and he charges me $8/tire to replace etc and well
worth it. Takes him 5 minutes, so I wait for it.
best,
Rhett
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Pat Hatch
Subject: Re: RV-List: tire stuff
Or you could get Spruce's cheap bead breaker...I have had one and has worked
great for years. P/n 12-16790 at $129. Ok, maybe not so cheap any more...
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: tire stuff
>
> There are a couple of things you can do to get a tire off the rim. I
> have a large vice that I can set the tire in and tighten right next to
> the rim. Works for one side. The second step is really riskey, but it
> works. Take the largest flat-blade screwdriver and force it between the
> rim and tire. DO NOT PUT PRESSURE ON THE VERY OUTSIDE EDGE OF THE RIM.
> Yes, I yelled. You stand a really big chance of buying a wheel along
> with the new tire!!!! Press down on the screwdriver towards the tire.
> Move over a couple of inches and repeat, going all around the tire until
> the bead pops loose. As for the talc ..... most folks don't put the
> talc on the wheel rims. I do and don't have problems getting the tires
> off. However, alex could be right .... but it works for me.
> Linn
>
>
> Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> >
> >If you think it is fun putting them on, wait until you have to get one
> >of those s.o.b.'s back off. I almost took a grinder to the tire. It is
> >unbelievable how "one" they become with the rims. Doesn't matter if you
> >use talc. Next time I'm going to try some sort of teflon dust. So,
> >enjoy the easy part.
> >
> >Alex Peterson
> >Maple Grove, MN
> >RV6-A N66AP 518 hours
> >http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer... |
Hi Bill,
Seems to be the most common location is now the wingtip. Both BMA & Dynon
claim the strobe causes less of a problem than steel parts.
Just my experience.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer...
I am getting ready to install a new Blue Mountain Sport
[http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/esportmain.php] and their two axis
autopilot in my -8A and am wondering where people are putting their remote
magnetometers? I've read a bunch of the archives and like where Sam put his
on the rear deck below the vertical stab I think), but am curious... Don't
all the bolts back there that hold the tail on cause problems? What about
my strobe high voltage cabling? Any thoughts?
Anyone else have a good spot on in the -8 to put this thing?
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane
bill(at)vondane.com
RV-8A - Colorado Springs
EAA Tech Counselor
www.vondane.com
www.rv8a.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chris Good" <chrisjgood(at)lycos.com> |
> Or you could get Spruce's cheap bead breaker...
> I have had one and has worked
> great for years. P/n 12-16790 at $129.
> Ok, maybe not so cheap any more...
> Pat Hatch
Harbor Freight has one on sale for $30.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=34552
I've used one like this for a couple of years now, after initial struggles every
time I changed or rotated the main tires. A couple of weeks ago I changed my
nose tire for the first time (after 760 hrs). It was five times as hard as changing
a main! I can't imagine trying to get the old tire off without some kind
of bead breaker. Then, of course, I pinched the tube on reassembly. Fortunately
I had a spare new tube & I was a bit more careful with the second one - plenty
of recent advice on how to do it more easily.
I did have to add a plate to support the wheel on the bead breaker, as it seems
to be designed for wheels with smaller diameter axle holes.
Chris Good,
West Bend, WI
RV-6A, 761 hrs.
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Vortex Generators |
Vortex generators on my RV6A didn't reduce cruise speed ... no change.
They do 'soften' stalls, so a power off stall is a mere mush. I also sense
earlier indication of a stall too.
I have a Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) installed. It had been carefully set
so that the analog needle just 'touched' the red arc on the indicator at the
stall break. Without changing the angle of the probe it uses, after the
vortex generators were installed the needle now goes well into the 'red
zone' on the indicator prior to stall break, indicating a higher angle of
attack prior to stall.
Airspeed indicators are too imprecise at high angles of attack to mean much,
but I feel the generators could easily reduce stall speed in an emergency
landing in rough terrain by 5MPH...enough to make a difference in damage to
me and the plane.
FWIW
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer... |
that would be difficult for me as I have my wing tips riveted on... I like
the deck under the vertical stab idea... I have gotten some good responses
on that location...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer...
Hi Bill,
Seems to be the most common location is now the wingtip. Both BMA & Dynon
claim the strobe causes less of a problem than steel parts.
Just my experience.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer...
I am getting ready to install a new Blue Mountain Sport
[http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/esportmain.php] and their two axis
autopilot in my -8A and am wondering where people are putting their remote
magnetometers? I've read a bunch of the archives and like where Sam put his
on the rear deck below the vertical stab I think), but am curious... Don't
all the bolts back there that hold the tail on cause problems? What about
my strobe high voltage cabling? Any thoughts?
Anyone else have a good spot on in the -8 to put this thing?
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane
bill(at)vondane.com
RV-8A - Colorado Springs
EAA Tech Counselor
www.vondane.com
www.rv8a.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: More kit frustration!! |
Bob,
Set the 90 psi inflated tire out in the sun.
It works.
ERic--
RV-8 Wings
----Original Message Follows----
From: N67BT(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: More kit frustration!!
Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 09:52:24 EDT
In a message dated 8/30/2004 8:50:28 PM Mountain Daylight Time,
deanpsir(at)easystreet.com writes:
<>
I have the same problem. I have installed a lot of tires on rims but this
one takes the cake. I used lots of talc, drum sanded the tire bead,
inflated
the tire to 90 lbs and let it set overnight. The tire bead never came
closer
than 3/8" to the rim.
I called Van's and they had no clue. I have ordered a new tire on their
recommendation. If that doesn't work we will check the dimension
tolerances of
the wheel.
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
Has anyone used cowl flaps on their RV?
Pros & Cons?
ERic--
RV Fuselage!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Russell Nichols" <russnichols(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | A/C construction insurance |
I use Avemco. They have a "builders policy" that runs a couple of hundred
dollars per year for $20k of coverage.
>From: Christopher Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: A/C construction insurance
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 07:08:03 -0700 (GMT-07:00)
>
>
>Insurance question (hope I dont offend the purists)
>
>After reading the posts re homeowners insurance not covering A/C
>construction parts and projects I decided to check my policy. Sure enough
>Allstate specifically excludes A/C and A/C parts and everything related.
>This is a shock since I have two half completed RV-8s in my shop. (I am
>building one and a friend is building the other)
>
>My question to you is this: What are you doing to insure your project
>until you get your airworthiness certificate? Does your coverage include
>your labor?
>
>Chris Stone
>RV-8 Wings
>Newberg, OR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | More kit frustration!! |
Dean,
For whatever reason, this problem is fairly common with the nose tire. The
best way to get it together is to get a couple of long pieces of threaded
dowel that fit into the bolt holes. The just start tightening down on the
dowels with a couple of nuts slowly. Check as you go to make sure the tube
is not getting pinched between the wheel halves. Once you get the two
wheels close enough you can put a couple of the normal bolts in and tighten
them down. Then remove the threaded dowels and replace them with the normal
bolts. Job done. Pinching of the tube has become so common in this task
that Van's now puts a second tube in every kit. have fun.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir(at)easystreet.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: More kit frustration!!
>Date: Mon, 30 Aug 2004 22:47:29 -0400
>
>
>You know I love the RV airplanes and I've been privileged to know Dick VanG
>for many years (a fine gentleman whom I greatly admire). I even lived next
>door to him and got my very own personal consultation during the building
>of
>my fuselage kit (way cool). But..sometimes I think I've gotten ALL the
>out-of-tolerance parts that have ever been produced for the RV-6A and the
>frustration of spending unbelievable amounts of time trying to get things
>to
>fit just irritates the hell out of me.
>
>
>Latest BS has to do with mounting the nose wheel tire..I split the rims and
>installed the tube in the tire and tried to put the rim halves together but
>NO WAY. The rims go into the tire maybe a half inch before things get so
>tight that I can't push them in any further, @#$%&... My friend with a
>Q200
>has the same size tires and wheels on his airplane and says that the rim
>should just about slide right in with very little hassle. He says he has to
>use the same size Chin Shen Taiwanese tires that we do and the only time he
>has a problem is with getting them OFF the rims is when he's trying to
>replace a tire (the bead sometimes sticks to the rim). I'm probably
>beginning to sound like a whiner but does anyone have any words of wisdom
>on
>yet another five minute job that is taking a few hours? Is this a common
>problem or am I just lucky enough to have yet another out-of-tolerance
>piece
>of crap that I paid good money for? BTW my buddy with the Q200 says he
>almost invariably has to put his Chin Shen tires on a lathe to true them
>before using (out of round), is this another problem that's been
>experienced
>in the RV world? Does anyone else make this size tire? Thanks.
>
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>
>RV-6A N197DM
>
>It'll get done some day come hell or high water so help me god!
>
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
John, which brand vortex generators do you have? Seems like we are seeing
some different results at cruise, so would be nice to see if the
"brand/placement" could be an issue.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: RV-List: Vortex Generators
>
> Vortex generators on my RV6A didn't reduce cruise speed ... no change.
>
> They do 'soften' stalls, so a power off stall is a mere mush. I also sense
> earlier indication of a stall too.
>
> I have a Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) installed. It had been carefully set
> so that the analog needle just 'touched' the red arc on the indicator at
the
> stall break. Without changing the angle of the probe it uses, after the
> vortex generators were installed the needle now goes well into the 'red
> zone' on the indicator prior to stall break, indicating a higher angle of
> attack prior to stall.
>
> Airspeed indicators are too imprecise at high angles of attack to mean
much,
> but I feel the generators could easily reduce stall speed in an emergency
> landing in rough terrain by 5MPH...enough to make a difference in damage
to
> me and the plane.
>
> FWIW
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
I know several people have added cowl flaps, it has been discussed on the
lists many times over the years. Instead of going to all that work of
modifying and fabricating, why dont you just fly it first before paint to
see if it is necessary. If you dont have 200 HP+ and live in a hot area
then it most likely it will not be required.
>
>
>Has anyone used cowl flaps on their RV?
>
>Pros & Cons?
>
>ERic--
>RV Fuselage!
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
What are the cowl flaps going to do for a 200 hp engine in a hot environment?
What's the point? Open up the exhaust side so air passes through quicker?
If you had vents on the top of the cowl and opened them up on the ground I could
see that possibly helping out with a fuel injected setup.
In a message dated 8/31/2004 1:47:16 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
writes:
>
>I know several people have added cowl flaps, it has been discussed on the
>lists many times over the years. Instead of going to all that work of
>modifying and fabricating, why dont you just fly it first before paint to
>see if it is necessary. If you dont have 200 HP+ and live in a hot area
>then it most likely it will not be required.
>
>
>>
>>
>>Has anyone used cowl flaps on their RV?
>>
>>Pros & Cons?
>>
>>ERic--
>>RV Fuselage!
>>
>>
>
>
>Scott Bilinski
>Eng dept 305
>Phone (858) 657-2536
>Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: [RV-8] Cowl Flaps? |
I agree with Dan & Danny that the standard cowl and a good oil cooler do a
great job.
i.e. Pro = simple system
I'm looking deeper for a potential performance gain!
Pros
CHT control to 375-400F per Lycoming recommended cruise temp., longer TBO
Design system for 400F max CHT with open flaps on Hot Day/Max. Climb
Oil temp control independent of CHT(with separate flap)
Reduced cooling drag, i.e. higher cruise speed and/or lower GPH.
?
Cons
Complexity
Weight
?
What's the spam can experience of what cowl flaps are worth for MPH & GPH?
ERic--
RV-8 Fuselage!
________________________________________________________________________________
>
>"Open up the exhaust side so air passes through quicker?"
Isn't that what cowl flaps do..........?
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
> >see if it is necessary. If you dont have 200 HP+ and live in a hot area
> >then it most likely it will not be required.
>
> What are the cowl flaps going to do for a 200 hp engine in a hot
environment? What's the point? Open up the exhaust side so air passes
through quicker?
I've got 200 horses and I live in a relatively hot climate (SoCal). I have
no need for cowl flaps on the hottest days. In my opinion, cowl flaps treat
a symptom rather than solve a problem. Go with a high quality oil cooler,
get your baffles nice and tight, check your timing, get rid of the flashing
between your fins (I haven't done it, just hear it helps), etc. I'm no
expert, but if *my* setup runs cool, it can't be too difficult to
accomplish! ;-)
I had spam cans before where I *needed* the cowl flaps in certain
conditions. But that's only because (a) the system was probably poorly
designed, (b) I was relatively oblivious at the time, and (c) I was
restricted from experimenting with the setup even if I wanted or knew how
to.
Seems like there are zillions of RVs out there without cowl flaps. I don't
know why you'd need 'em if you get your "cooling system" dialed in. Adding
cowl flaps adds weight, complexity, etc. It could introduce its own set of
problems.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
I think it boils down to reducing *cooling drag*. Any air going through
the airplane, not around it, introduces drag = loss of speed. If you
set it up to be able to continueously climb at max power on a hot day, I
have no doubt you have an excess of air passing through the engine
compartment at cruise at low ambient temperatures.
What does the guy that wrote "Speed with economy" (Ku...?) have to say
about it?
The guys with the real fast RVs must have "been there, done that".
Finn
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>
>
>>>see if it is necessary. If you dont have 200 HP+ and live in a hot area
>>>then it most likely it will not be required.
>>>
>>>
>>What are the cowl flaps going to do for a 200 hp engine in a hot
>>
>>
>environment? What's the point? Open up the exhaust side so air passes
>through quicker?
>
>I've got 200 horses and I live in a relatively hot climate (SoCal). I have
>no need for cowl flaps on the hottest days. In my opinion, cowl flaps treat
>a symptom rather than solve a problem. Go with a high quality oil cooler,
>get your baffles nice and tight, check your timing, get rid of the flashing
>between your fins (I haven't done it, just hear it helps), etc. I'm no
>expert, but if *my* setup runs cool, it can't be too difficult to
>accomplish! ;-)
>
>I had spam cans before where I *needed* the cowl flaps in certain
>conditions. But that's only because (a) the system was probably poorly
>designed, (b) I was relatively oblivious at the time, and (c) I was
>restricted from experimenting with the setup even if I wanted or knew how
>to.
>
>Seems like there are zillions of RVs out there without cowl flaps. I don't
>know why you'd need 'em if you get your "cooling system" dialed in. Adding
>cowl flaps adds weight, complexity, etc. It could introduce its own set of
>problems.
>
>Best of luck,
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
| Subject: | Vortex Generators |
I don't remember the name, but they came from a supplier in the Seattle area
as I recall.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vortex Generators
>
> John, which brand vortex generators do you have? Seems like we are
seeing
> some different results at cruise, so would be nice to see if the
> "brand/placement" could be an issue.
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Vortex Generators
>
>
> >
> > Vortex generators on my RV6A didn't reduce cruise speed ... no change.
> >
> > They do 'soften' stalls, so a power off stall is a mere mush. I also
sense
> > earlier indication of a stall too.
> >
> > I have a Lift Reserve Indicator (LRI) installed. It had been carefully
set
> > so that the analog needle just 'touched' the red arc on the indicator at
> the
> > stall break. Without changing the angle of the probe it uses, after the
> > vortex generators were installed the needle now goes well into the 'red
> > zone' on the indicator prior to stall break, indicating a higher angle
of
> > attack prior to stall.
> >
> > Airspeed indicators are too imprecise at high angles of attack to mean
> much,
> > but I feel the generators could easily reduce stall speed in an
emergency
> > landing in rough terrain by 5MPH...enough to make a difference in damage
> to
> > me and the plane.
> >
> > FWIW
> >
> > John
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Laird Owens <owens(at)aerovironment.com> |
On Aug 31, 2004, at 12:33 PM, Finn Lassen wrote:
snip
> The guys with the real fast RVs must have "been there, done that".
Neither Dave Anders or Tracy Saylor have cowl doors, and they have the
fasted RV's out there....take what you want from that.
I keep thinking of the KISS theory.....
Laird RV-6
SoCal
>
> Finn
>
> Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>>> see if it is necessary. If you dont have 200 HP+ and live in a hot
>>>> area
>>>> then it most likely it will not be required.
>>>>
>>>>
>>> What are the cowl flaps going to do for a 200 hp engine in a hot
>>>
>>>
>> environment? What's the point? Open up the exhaust side so air
>> passes
>> through quicker?
>>
>> I've got 200 horses and I live in a relatively hot climate (SoCal).
>> I have
>> no need for cowl flaps on the hottest days. In my opinion, cowl
>> flaps treat
>> a symptom rather than solve a problem. Go with a high quality oil
>> cooler,
>> get your baffles nice and tight, check your timing, get rid of the
>> flashing
>> between your fins (I haven't done it, just hear it helps), etc. I'm
>> no
>> expert, but if *my* setup runs cool, it can't be too difficult to
>> accomplish! ;-)
>>
>> I had spam cans before where I *needed* the cowl flaps in certain
>> conditions. But that's only because (a) the system was probably
>> poorly
>> designed, (b) I was relatively oblivious at the time, and (c) I was
>> restricted from experimenting with the setup even if I wanted or knew
>> how
>> to.
>>
>> Seems like there are zillions of RVs out there without cowl flaps. I
>> don't
>> know why you'd need 'em if you get your "cooling system" dialed in.
>> Adding
>> cowl flaps adds weight, complexity, etc. It could introduce its own
>> set of
>> problems.
>>
>> Best of luck,
>> )_( Dan
>> RV-7 N714D
>> http://www.rvproject.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sept 11, 2004 -RV Forum, 10th Annual Oswego County NY, KFZY |
Mark your calendars and plan to attend.
September 10, 2004 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA 486
General meeting is that night too.
September 11, 2004 Saturday more fly ins, + technical seminars all day,
meals provided to paid attendee's. Due to insurance all I can say is you tap a
pilot for a ride...there are many who are generous there. Then a nice dinner
banquet with a presentation for an evening wrap up!
September 12, 2004 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a
coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
See us at _www.eaachapter486.com_ (http://www.eaachapter486.com/) See the RV
forum website for registration information.
RV pilots get it all for one dollar.
VFR years have seen over 56 RV's and 25 SPAM's fly in with over 150
attendee's.
Again Mike Seager and the new factory RV7 will be doing instruction and
manufacturers like Lycoming and many others have attended, and/or they do send
goodies.
I could go on...but you get the picture...just ask someone who has been
there the $45 is easily worth it. Hope to See you all there.
Respectfully,
David McManmon
Past-President
EAA 486
RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
From: RV6160hp(at)aol.com
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 17:00:42 EDT
Subject: Sept 11, 2004 -RV Forum, 10th Annual Oswego CO, KFZY
-------------------------------1092430842
Mark your calendars and plan to attend.
September 10, 2004 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA 486
General meeting is that night too.
September 11, 2004 Saturday more fly ins, + technical seminars all day,
meals provided to paid attendee's. Due to insurance all I can say is you tap a
pilot for a ride...there are many who are generous there. Then a nice dinner
banquet with a presentation for an evening wrap up!
September 12, 2004 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a
coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
See us at _www.eaachapter486.com_ (http://www.eaachapter486.com) See the RV
forum website for registration information.
RV pilots get it all for one dollar.
VFR years have seen over 56 RV's and 25 SPAM's fly in with over 150
attendee's.
Again Mike Seager and the new factory RV7 will be doing instruction and
manufacturers like Lycoming and many others have attended, and/or they do send
goodies.
I could go on...but you get the picture...just ask someone who has been
there the $45 is easily worth it. Hope to See you all there.
Respectfully,
David McManmon
Past-President
EAA 486
RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
DNA
-------------------------------1092430842
Mark your calendars and plan to attend.
September 10, 2004 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA 486
General meeting is that night too.
September 11, 2004 Saturday more fly ins, + technical seminars all day,
meals provided to paid attendee's. Due to insurance all I can say is you tap a
pilot for a ride...there are many whoare generous there. Then a nice
dinner banquet with a presentation for an evening wrap up!
September 12, 2004 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a
coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
See us at www.eaachapter486.com
See the RV forum website for registration information.
RV pilots get it all for one dollar.
VFR years have seen over 56 RV's and 25 SPAM's fly in with over 150
attendee's.
Again Mike Seager and the new factory RV7 will be doing instruction and
manufacturers like Lycoming and many others have attended,and/or they do
send goodies.
I could go on...but you get the picture...just ask someone who has been
there the $45 is easily worth it. Hope to See you all there.
Respectfully,
David McManmon
Past-President
EAA 486
RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
DNA
-------------------------------1092430842--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | I've finally got my XCOM 760 Radio |
| From: | <John.Morrissey(at)csiro.au> |
Hi All,
When I got home last night I was pleased to see that my XCOM 760 radio
had finally arrived (Serial Number 16). Despite the late hour I hade the
unit hooked up to my base station aerial within an hour or two and all
appears well. Had a couple of conversations with a couple of late night
commuters and they reported good reception. I found the controls to be
reasonably logical and easy to use. Off to the plane on the weekend for
some air trials.
Cheers
John Morrissey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Pat on the back for air drill overhaul/repair |
I purchased my Pan American Tool Corp air drill from Avery Tools in Jan
1997. Been using it on my RV-6, which is at the canopy frame stage. Oiled
with Marvel Mystery Oil regularly. It finally developed a problem (locked
up after drilling 2 holes). Was directed to Pan American's web site,
called their toll free number 800-423-2764 and talked to Phil in their
repair shop. They love to support their customers and he quoted $25 to
overhaul/repair the drill, which retails for $149 from Avery (Nova/Pan
American on pg. 33). Took 10 days round trip from when I dropped in post
office until it came back via UPS.
Great service, great tool.
David Carter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer... |
Bill,
I put my Blue Mountain magnetometer behind the rear baggage compartment in
the middle of the fuselage, on a bracket made between the longerons on each
side. I will be interested in where and how you mount your autopilot
servos.
Terry
RV-8A still wiring
Seattle
...
I am getting ready to install a new Blue Mountain Sport
[http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/esportmain.php] and their two axis
autopilot in my -8A and am wondering where people are putting their remote
magnetometers? I've read a bunch of the archives and like where Sam put his
on the rear deck below the vertical stab I think), but am curious... Don't
all the bolts back there that hold the tail on cause problems? What about
my strobe high voltage cabling? Any thoughts?
Anyone else have a good spot on in the -8 to put this thing?
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane
bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Beene" <kbeene(at)citilink.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical wire labeling |
Stein,
It doesn't have to be that costly. Our prototype shop at work makes heat
shrink labels for all our Mil Spec cables on an Epson tractor feed printer.
They use a special ribbon that bonds with the tubing but I think normal ink
would work. I have some if you want to try it but I junked my tractor feed
printer. The labels come 250 in a box for about $40 (different widths and
colors are available). Here is an example.
http://www.graphicproducts.com/labelers/tls2200/supplies.html
Ken
>
> I think Linn meant an actual wire printer, which are really pricey. I
> know
> because I just bought one for labeling wires directly. Here's the
> deal....they START at around $7,000.00 and go up from there. For the new
> laser wire marking systems, you're looking at around $75,000.00.
> Obviously
> I don't have one of those....
>
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> http://www.steinair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer... |
I have some ideas on where to put the magnetometer now, but I was hoping you
would tell me where to put the servos! Any ideas?
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Blue Mountain EFIS Magnetometer...
Bill,
I put my Blue Mountain magnetometer behind the rear baggage compartment in
the middle of the fuselage, on a bracket made between the longerons on each
side. I will be interested in where and how you mount your autopilot
servos.
Terry
RV-8A still wiring
Seattle
...
I am getting ready to install a new Blue Mountain Sport
[http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/esportmain.php] and their two axis
autopilot in my -8A and am wondering where people are putting their remote
magnetometers? I've read a bunch of the archives and like where Sam put his
on the rear deck below the vertical stab I think), but am curious... Don't
all the bolts back there that hold the tail on cause problems? What about
my strobe high voltage cabling? Any thoughts?
Anyone else have a good spot on in the -8 to put this thing?
Thanks...
-Bill VonDane
bill(at)vondane.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Electrical wire labeling |
Hi Ken,
You're right...about the heatshrink. You can buy them on rolls just like
printer paper to feed through an impace/dot matrix printer. That being
said, the expensive machines I'm talking about print Directly onto the wire
itself, not a sleeve.
Anyway, those would be a good idea, but yet another machine for me to keep
going!
Thanks for the suggestion, I just might look into that sometime in the
future.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ken Beene
Subject: RE: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
Stein,
It doesn't have to be that costly. Our prototype shop at work makes heat
shrink labels for all our Mil Spec cables on an Epson tractor feed printer.
They use a special ribbon that bonds with the tubing but I think normal ink
would work. I have some if you want to try it but I junked my tractor feed
printer. The labels come 250 in a box for about $40 (different widths and
colors are available). Here is an example.
http://www.graphicproducts.com/labelers/tls2200/supplies.html
Ken
>
> I think Linn meant an actual wire printer, which are really pricey. I
> know
> because I just bought one for labeling wires directly. Here's the
> deal....they START at around $7,000.00 and go up from there. For the new
> laser wire marking systems, you're looking at around $75,000.00.
> Obviously
> I don't have one of those....
>
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> http://www.steinair.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
Van's new RV-10
http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/220RV_lg.jpg
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Nels Hanson <pa201950(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: grass runway length for RV's? |
I fly in and out of my grass strip which is exactly
1,050 ft. long. It is surrounded by 10'corn in
August,so the useful length is probably closer to 850
ft. I have a 160 HP Sterba prop(fixed pitch). Taking
off is no problem. Landing is the problem. My
indicated stall speed is precisely 54 mph with half
flaps and 52 with full flaps. If I don't bring my RV-6
in at no more than 60-62 indicated with full flaps and
get it down exactly where I want to I go around.
Yes,there is a pucker factor,but the plane will handle
it. The key is to practice several times with markings
on a long grass strip so you KNOW you can do it,not
HOPE you can do it. I never fly off the strip when it
is warmer than 84 degrees and never with two people. I
usually have burned around 8-9 gallons by the time I
land there after flying for an hour to get there.
I wish my strip was 300-400 ft. longer because it is
tough to land on but I enjoy the challenge. It will be
somewhat easier when the farmers harvest the corn.
I practiced a lot on a 1,300 grass strip that I had
marked off in 100 ft. intervals first. I found that
with careful speed control on final I could
consistently land in 800 ft. with average braking.
My friends with RV's will not go into my strip. My
friends with Cubs land there with no problem.
--- cgalley wrote:
>
>
> Just go over to Amana and practice! You can always
> go to the Colony Inn
> between attempts and increase your gross!
>
> Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
> Safety Programs Editor - TC
> EAA Sport Pilot
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <czechsix(at)juno.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: grass runway length for RV's?
>
>
> >
> > Guys,
> >
> > For those of you with experience flying RV's off
> grass strips, what would
> > you consider the minimum safe runway length? I
> know, it depends on a
> > variety of factors, so in this case lets assume no
> obstacles at either
> > end higher than 6' (i.e. a cornfield in August)
> and no higher terrain or
> > obstacles beyond that, relatively level & smooth
> runway surface,
> > operating at gross weight with 180hp / CS, on a
> hot/humid day (say 95 F)
> > at 880' msl, with no headwind. Maybe throw in a
> bit of dew or post-rain
> > moisture on the grass to reduce braking
> effectiveness, and this would be
> > about the worst case scenario for me here in Iowa.
> Would 1700' be
> > adequate under these conditions? I imagine
> takeoff would be a non-event,
> > so landing and getting stopped without too much
> pucker factor would be my
> > main concern....
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > --Mark Navratil
> > Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> > RV-8A N2D finishing....
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical wire labeling |
In a message dated 8/31/2004 6:49:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mstewart(at)iss.net writes
<>
Michael,
I used a Brother Model PT-1750 P-Touch label printer using TZ tape to do
hundreds of wire labels for my 7A. I covered the labels with clear heat shrink
from B&C. I have had no indication of heat degradation. The tape adhesive
leaves a lot to be desired but the heat shrink will keep them in place. I
wonder if other heat shrink brands require more heat?
I don't know what the unit costs, as it was a gift, but I think it's under
$50. The tapes are expensive (as I remember about $16), but one will do a
project.
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Electrical wire labeling |
In a message dated 8/31/2004 6:49:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mstewart(at)iss.net writes
<>
Michael,
I used a Brother Model PT-1750 P-Touch label printer using TZ tape to do
hundreds of wire labels for my 7A. I covered the labels with clear heat shrink
from B&C. I have had no indication of heat degradation. The tape adhesive
leaves a lot to be desired but the heat shrink will keep them in place. I
wonder if other heat shrink brands require more heat?
I don't know what the unit costs, as it was a gift, but I think it's under
$50. The tapes are expensive (as I remember about $16), but one will do a
project.
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re: vortex generators |
Sorry guys , my vortex generator photos didn't upload to Matronics photoshare.
I bought them from Larry Vetterman 605-745-5932.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Bell" <DBell(at)ManisteeNational.com> |
| Subject: | Cadillac MI RV Flyin |
Hello fellow RVers,
September 11th in Cadillac, MI EAA Chapter 678 will host another small flyin of
RVers and any others looking for a place to get a good bowl of Chili or Sloppy
Joe.
In the past we have held this small gathering in May, but this year a southern
event replaced our Spring Venture so we are holding it Saturday Sept 11th.
Our Clubhouse is located on the south side of the field at Wexford County Airport
about due south of the taxiway that heads off 7/25 to the terminal. It can
also be accessed via a taxiway off of the grass strip 18/36. This taxiway turns
off to the west about 3/4 of the way down 18.
We will be casual, have coffee on by 800 0r 830 am and food shortly thereafter.
Fly In or Drive in and enjoy a nice getaway.
If driving in...we are located at the north end of 6th Avenue, where the road dead
ends into the Airport.
From Business US 131 in downtown Cadillac, turn west on 13th Street (Fairgrounds
on this corner). One mile down is 6th Avenue...turn north to dead end.
From M-115 turn East on 13th Street and about 3 miles to 6th Avenue, turn north
to dead end. (4 Winns boat company is on the corner of 13th and 6th.)
Anyone looking for more info please feel free to email me, or call.
We have a 6 and 8 now flying from our group that will be there. Our Pres is building
a Mustang and is trying to get some of their group to flyin as well.
Hope to see some of you on Sept 11th.
There is also a Hot Dog Flyin in Thompsonville just north of us around noon the
same day.
dbell(at)manisteenational.com
231-398-9106 Home
231-398-0123 Work...x-101
231-392-4627 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com> |
I am officially a 3-peat offender. My RV-7A took to the air for the first time
today. This is my third RV and the best by far. Performance was awesome. It
is powered by a Superior XP360 with a Hartzell C/S prop. It has an all glass
cockpit including a Blue Mountain EFIS One, Dynon EFIS, and CNX80. I look forward
to lots of cross country flying. Thanks to all on the list who posted
answers to my questions. Even though this was my 4th project, I still found the
list helpful. Keep pounding those rivets. The RV grin is worth the effort.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Psiropoulos" <deanpsir(at)easystreet.com> |
| Subject: | RV nose tire mounting |
Thanks to all for the wisdom on tire mounting. Sam and the rest of the RV
world who appreciate me getting all the out-of-tolerance parts, you're
welcome! This airplane will fly in spite of it though (assuming hurricane
Frances doesn't get my hangar this weekend);-) Jerry relax, I know its not
Vans fault, hell he didn't even make the parts. Sometimes ya just gotta
vent a little (heck you didn't even get some of the prepunch parts that us
later builders were privy to so you must had an even more exciting time
putting yours together). And..as I said, I've been privileged to know THE
MAN and his company and to say I respect and admire him is a gross
understatement. As long as I have a great group of folks like you willing
to share their RV experience, I WILL FINISH THIS PLANE. Thanks again folks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Not whining tonight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Jim,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE -- AGAIN !!!!!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>Date: Tue, 31 Aug 2004 21:23:25 -0700
>
>
>I am officially a 3-peat offender. My RV-7A took to the air for the first
>time today. This is my third RV and the best by far. Performance was
>awesome. It is powered by a Superior XP360 with a Hartzell C/S prop. It
>has an all glass cockpit including a Blue Mountain EFIS One, Dynon EFIS,
>and CNX80. I look forward to lots of cross country flying. Thanks to all
>on the list who posted answers to my questions. Even though this was my
>4th project, I still found the list helpful. Keep pounding those rivets.
>The RV grin is worth the effort.
>
>Jim Cone
>
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations!! I can still remember my first ride in your first RV!
Send pictures.
Dan DeNeal
rv6a N256GD
Jim & Bev Cone wrote:
I am officially a 3-peat offender. My RV-7A took to the air for the first time
today. This is my third RV and the best by far. Performance was awesome. It is
powered by a Superior XP360 with a Hartzell C/S prop. It has an all glass cockpit
including a Blue Mountain EFIS One, Dynon EFIS, and CNX80. I look forward
to lots of cross country flying. Thanks to all on the list who posted answers
to my questions. Even though this was my 4th project, I still found the list
helpful. Keep pounding those rivets. The RV grin is worth the effort.
Jim Cone
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electrical wire labeling |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Oh very interesting here Bob.
I have tried 3 of these things and on the ones I have tried, as soon as
you apply the heat to it, it turn into a solid black strip.
Im gonna poke around for one of those. I used these labels like this all
over the 6 and folding them over themselves on the sticky did not last.
I remember flying one day with my mom, who has only flown with me once.
One of those labels fell off from behind the instrument panel onto her
foot while we were tooling along. She said "is that bad"? Answer;
"Probably be ok Mom. I used better glue on the engine":) They do not
stand up to the heat.
Last night I tried printing some labels (just lines of text on regular
paper and cutting them out) and inserting them into heatshrink. I tried
regular paper, photo paper, colors, and so forth. My conclusion on this
was I like the photo paper because it is a stiff paper that when the
letter strip is cut out, on an Arial 8 font (tried 4-14), cut right up
to the letters, the stiffness holds up nicely to the heat and when the
shrink shrinks, the stiffness of the paper makes it an easier read.
That's the good news. The bad news is I like to make labels on the fly
in a quick easy method, like the little label printers, and I don't have
the time to run up stairs and deal with making a couple of strips on
paper.
I also tried some color heatshrink, wrote on it with a sharpie, and
shrunk it. This was the fastest and simplest of all, although my writing
sucks. There is zero chance of getting Michelle to come down to the
basement to write for me when I need it.
So, Im gonna try the brother pt-1750 if I can hunt one down in the
office. I like these strips and if it works like you say it does, then I
am in business. Plan B is to write on yellow shrink.
Thanks to all that replied.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N67BT(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
In a message dated 8/31/2004 6:49:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mstewart(at)iss.net writes
<>
Michael,
I used a Brother Model PT-1750 P-Touch label printer using TZ tape to do
hundreds of wire labels for my 7A. I covered the labels with clear heat
shrink
from B&C. I have had no indication of heat degradation. The tape
adhesive
leaves a lot to be desired but the heat shrink will keep them in place.
I
wonder if other heat shrink brands require more heat?
I don't know what the unit costs, as it was a gift, but I think it's
under
$50. The tapes are expensive (as I remember about $16), but one will do
a
project.
Bob Trumpfheller
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
Scott, I don't believe that I said an annual would "do away with that liability"
as you indicated. But, having an annual done by an independant person as the
pre-buy is the best possible thing that you can have in your possession if there
were a liability to arise after the sale of your homebuilt. You are correct
that no company is intentionally now, nor is likely to ever offer coverage
to protect a homebuilder for their liability as the assembler of the airplane.
There are distinctly seperate liabilities for the manufacturer of the kit and for the assembler of the plane. There is a pretty good article that can assist those of you interested here http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html. Obviously, if the parts you receive from Van (or parts from other vendors that he recommends) fail after proper installation and during normal use and cause the accident, then that would be a potential liability for Van. If you installed a part not recommended in the plans, left something out, installed something improperly, etc. then that is a liability for you, the assembler. (you can call yourself the manufacturer... that's fine with me, but am attempting to help seperate the two in your minds for purposes of this discussion and future ones on this topic.)
My first point is that coverage is offered on two types of policies currently out
there. My second point is that the language on those policies doesn't specifically
exclude coverage for the assembler. I would stake my job that the first
time that is contested in court the companies which have that language on
their policies are going to exclude experimentals with respect to that section
of their policy very shortly after that. The intent of that language on their
policy is to protect the owner of a plane (any plane, homebuilt or certified)
from his liability immediately following the sale of the plane which he has
had care, custody, and control of. For example, the new owner crashes and dies
on the way home with the new plane due to sudden engine stoppage because you
haven't changed the oil in the last 100 hours. That person's estate could sue
you as the former maintainer of that plane. That is the intent of that language,
not to offer products liability to you as the assembler.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Smcm75(at)aol.com
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 30, 2004 6:40 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
In a message dated 8/30/04 6:12:08 PM Eastern Daylight Time, jhelms(at)i1.net
writes:
>
>
> There are two company which offer that coverage, but that coverage was
> designed for the liability you incur from owning/maintaining the plane, not
> building it. The first person to be sued and try to recover $ under one of
those
> provisions is going to likely have to fight for it in court and then those
> companies will quickly reword their policies to specifically exclude that
> coverage.
>
> I'd recommend that you have an annual done on the plane as the pre-buy.
> That way you have an independant person stating that the plane was airworthy
at
> the time of sale. You're always going to be 'on the hook' as the assembler
> of the plane, but if you didn't stray from the plans there is little liability
> there. If you modified a bunch of things (or anything) there is some
> liability you've assumed as the engineer/manufacturer of that part.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
>
As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is not
the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going to
do
away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product liability
coverage you as a builder.
Scott Morrow
N548SM RV-6A
28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell them.
In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish it. For
example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another, and the
engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people who could sue
you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure to risk, but
no less.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: ed
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of you.
I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer is
>not
>the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the ultimate
>product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not going
>to do
>away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
>liability
>coverage you as a builder.
>
>Scott Morrow
>N548SM RV-6A
>28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Sears <sears(at)searnet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
> I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell
them. In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish
it. For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another,
and the engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people
who could sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure
to risk, but no less.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ed
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV 7 Wings Kit for Sale |
| From: | "Clinchy, Dave" <clinchd(at)losrios.edu> |
Hi All,
A friend is selling his RV 7 wings kit. They are still in the crate in
northern California. He wants $5,000. His email is staart(at)volcano.net
Dave Clinchy
7 wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
JT
Does one's umbrella policy cover any of this potential liability? I don't
see anything in the fine print that would exclude it, but I am almost afraid
to ask...of course I will before I sell an airplane, but just curious what
your opinion might be.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
> I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell
them. In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish
it. For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another,
and the engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people
who could sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure
to risk, but no less.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ed
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
I don't write anything but aviation policies, so take this with a grain of salt.
However, I do get asked by customers often about aviation coverage under their
Umbrella policies that they get elsewhere. In my experience, most umbrella's
exclude coverage for aviation unless it's specifically included. Or, they
will only cover a schedule of items (i.e. boat, list of cars and real estate
holdings, etc.) So, in either of those cases, you'd have to inform the carrier
you want that added. If they will add the plane, then they'd likely charge
you extra for that. They might not want to cover it.
Another thing to watch for and keep in mind is that often, your umbrella coverage
may not 'kick in' unless the insurance policy on the item in question has a
certain limit of liability on it (normally at least $1 Million with no passenger
sublimit). That type of limit isn't available thru any company on a homebuilt.
The VanGuard Program does offer (if you desire, and pay for it) the highest
liability limit available on any homebuilt that I'm aware of currently (1
Million limited to $200,000 per passenger).
The carrier providing the umbrella coverage is normally concerned with there being
a gap between what the underlying policy will pay and when there coverage
kicks in.
You might also read the umbrella policy to see what type of exclusions it has.
It could (for example) have an exclusion for product liability, or liability
coverage for something which you build/assemble.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Hatch
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 2004 9:28 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
JT
Does one's umbrella policy cover any of this potential liability? I don't
see anything in the fine print that would exclude it, but I am almost afraid
to ask...of course I will before I sell an airplane, but just curious what
your opinion might be.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net>
To:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
> I've heard of people who intend to 'part out' their planes when they sell
them. In my opinion, this would merely spread the risk around, not diminish
it. For example, if you sell the wings to one person, the fuse to another,
and the engine and avionics to a third, you now have three seperate people
who could sue you for those individual pieces. There is no greater exposure
to risk, but no less.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: ed
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 2:03 AM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
>
>
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
I'll probably get some flack for this, (so sue me) but I believe the only
answer is a need to reform our tort system. To get started, stop voting for
public office any member of the Bar. It's a gross conflict of interest.
This country is being held hostage by attorneys.
Chuck
RV9A (out of the paint shop this week!!!)
----- Original Message ----- >
> Does one's umbrella policy cover any of this potential liability? I don't
> see anything in the fine print that would exclude it, but I am almost
afraid
> to ask...of course I will before I sell an airplane, but just curious what
> your opinion might be.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
| Subject: | tire stuff...... Getting stuborn tire off of rim...use your |
dremmel
To get a tire off the rim I had to resort to cutting the bead cord (steel
cable imbedded in the rubber tire bead) with a dremmle cutter. Took 10
seconds to do. I wedged a piece of stainless sheet scrap between the cord
and aluminum rim and dremmeled(cut) with the FG cutter carefully until the
cord bead was cut. It took more time to write this up then for me to get the
tire off. Maybe this trick will help.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Van's Homecoming |
It looks like the weather is going to be pretty good for the trip to Van's
Homecoming. I plan to leave early Saturday morning. Is anyone else from So-Cal
and Nor-Cal planing on going.
Cash Copeland
RV-6 Hayward, Ca
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Electrical wire labeling |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
OK here is an update.
The Brother 1750 actually does not turn black when heat is applied. I
found one at work and tried it. In fact, it melts first when direct
torch heat is applied. This is perfect and is now plan A. I tried 2
others and one did, and one did not turn black.
I did experiment and there is a difference between the models that use
laminated tape, and those that don't. Laminated works, non-laminated
turns black when heated.
Mission accomplished.
Thanks team,
Mike Stewart
I now have a cheap way to quickly label wires.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart,
Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RE: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
Oh very interesting here Bob.
I have tried 3 of these things and on the ones I have tried, as soon as
you apply the heat to it, it turn into a solid black strip.
Im gonna poke around for one of those. I used these labels like this all
over the 6 and folding them over themselves on the sticky did not last.
I remember flying one day with my mom, who has only flown with me once.
One of those labels fell off from behind the instrument panel onto her
foot while we were tooling along. She said "is that bad"? Answer;
"Probably be ok Mom. I used better glue on the engine":) They do not
stand up to the heat.
Last night I tried printing some labels (just lines of text on regular
paper and cutting them out) and inserting them into heatshrink. I tried
regular paper, photo paper, colors, and so forth. My conclusion on this
was I like the photo paper because it is a stiff paper that when the
letter strip is cut out, on an Arial 8 font (tried 4-14), cut right up
to the letters, the stiffness holds up nicely to the heat and when the
shrink shrinks, the stiffness of the paper makes it an easier read.
That's the good news. The bad news is I like to make labels on the fly
in a quick easy method, like the little label printers, and I don't have
the time to run up stairs and deal with making a couple of strips on
paper.
I also tried some color heatshrink, wrote on it with a sharpie, and
shrunk it. This was the fastest and simplest of all, although my writing
sucks. There is zero chance of getting Michelle to come down to the
basement to write for me when I need it.
So, Im gonna try the brother pt-1750 if I can hunt one down in the
office. I like these strips and if it works like you say it does, then I
am in business. Plan B is to write on yellow shrink.
Thanks to all that replied.
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N67BT(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Electrical wire labeling
In a message dated 8/31/2004 6:49:11 AM Mountain Daylight Time,
mstewart(at)iss.net writes
<>
Michael,
I used a Brother Model PT-1750 P-Touch label printer using TZ tape to do
hundreds of wire labels for my 7A. I covered the labels with clear heat
shrink
from B&C. I have had no indication of heat degradation. The tape
adhesive
leaves a lot to be desired but the heat shrink will keep them in place.
I
wonder if other heat shrink brands require more heat?
I don't know what the unit costs, as it was a gift, but I think it's
under
$50. The tapes are expensive (as I remember about $16), but one will do
a
project.
Bob Trumpfheller
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | scary alternator |
On a trip home from Santa Fe on Sunday I noticed at start-up a continous
static popping sound through the head sets, and also that the volt meter was
reading about 1/2 volt lower than usual and slowly declining about 1/10th of
a volt per 15 minutes. I turned off everything but the radio and the
Lightspeed and figured in the remaining hour of flight, losing another 1/2
volt won't be a problem. Then, about 20 minutes from home the static
stopped and the battery depletion accelerated. I got home with about 11
volts in the battery. Not a big deal, but it was definitely time to take a
look at the alternator and its wiring.
When I pulled the cowl, I was not at all happy with what I saw. On this
automotive (Motorcraft) alternator with about 70 hours on it, one of three
of the long bolts that hold the halves together was gone and the other two
were finger loose. The stud that holds a noise filter was also missing and
the filter was hanging by its wire. The alternator mounting was nice and
tight, as was the belt. The piece of crap just shook itself apart from
normal use.
Anybody with an automotive alternator needs to check their's and find some
way to safety those 3 long pins, at least with loctite. Or better yet, do
what I did, throw the thing in the trash, call B&C Electric and buy a real
one; especially if your running an electronic ignition which needs a healthy
battery to keep the fan turning.
Andy
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
Is there a capacitance fuel sender that can be used in the 7A-QB wing? The Van's
accessories catalog indicates that "the capacitive system is not available
on QB models" I'm assuming this is because the probe must run the width of the
tank and one would have had to drill the baffles to accomplish this during construction
of the tanks. ACS carries a couple but I can't tell if they would work
from the catalog description. The archives have a lot on these senders but
not the answer to my question.
Jim Thorne
7A-QB CHD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
Jim
You can still install Vans senders in you QB fuel tanks. However, it will
require a bit of surgery to the rear baffle. You'll need to cut 2 access
holes in the rear baffle. One in the 2nd bay and the other in the 2nd most
outboard bay. After installation, make two access covers and seal them up.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Is there a capacitance fuel sender that can be used in the 7A-QB
>wing? The Van's accessories catalog indicates that "the capacitive system
>is not available on QB models" I'm assuming this is because the probe must
>run the width of the tank and one would have had to drill the baffles to
>accomplish this during construction of the tanks. ACS carries a couple but
>I can't tell if they would work from the catalog description. The
>archives have a lot on these senders but not the answer to my question.
>
>Jim Thorne
>7A-QB CHD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "frank goggio" <fgoggio(at)nc.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
> Has anyone given thought to making an LLC the builder of the
> aircraft for the explicit purpose of effecting a liable
> institution? Of course one could attempt to penetrate the
> veil of the corporation, but it is a significant layer of
> protection. I don't know how you would deal with the A&P
> thing in that situation.
>
> It's probably easier and safer than tort reform :)
>
>
> Kathleen Evans
Disclaimer (really), I'm not a lawyer...
The "protection" that a corporate veil provides won't help much in this
sort of case, as you would be the principal partner or officer, and it
was your actions (you built the plane) that were at "fault". The
corporate protective veil that is so often discussed really only
protects the "company" (the owners or officers) from things that its
non-principal employees might do. That said, the real targets of
lawsuits are those with something of value ($$$) to be claimed. So,
spend all your money and don't worry!
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 517 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | -8 IO-360 throttle body & mix cable firewall penetrations, lengths |
??
8 builders, experts,
I've searched archives but don't see answers to my specific questions.
First, I'll appreciate your own firewall cable penetration locations, using
forward facing Airflow Performace throttle body (using Van's IO/mix cable
brackets), to Van's CT 82F throttle quadrent.. Also, please confirm (or
dispute) Van's catalog listed 60" cable lenghts as best fit for both cables
considering their paths, multiple radii, elevations. [60'' seem to measure
long to me] Your experience will give me a head start and the needed
confidence to press ahead. Thanks in advance.
Jack Blomgren, Minnesota RV Wing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
> Well, I have a story about what someone did to solve this dilemma a few
years ago. That someone's father had built a Sonerai and just prior to his
death made it clear he didn't want the plane sold so that his wife wouldn't
incur any liability. But someone hated to see the plane sitting idle and
didn't need it himself since he had an rv. So the N# was removed, the data
plate removed and the remaining "collection of parts" was sold for cash.
Everone was happy with the deal. So it can be done but I doubt it is legal.
> So is there any way to "unbuild" ones plane, so the new owner is
> considered the builder? I would assume not, since you would have to undo
> almost everything, and then they would just buy from vans instead of
you.
>
> I guess the real answer is just to keep flying and never sell it :)
>
>
> >As the builder and manufacturer of the aircraft (the kit manufacturer
is
> >not
> >the the legal manufacturer of the finished product) you have the
ultimate
> >product liability for the aircraft after it is sold. An annual is not
going
> >to do
> >away with this nor can I think of an insurer that will write product
> >liability
> >coverage you as a builder.
> >
> >Scott Morrow
> >N548SM RV-6A
> >28 years as an international Insurance Broker Now a consultant
>
> Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back
to
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
In a message dated 9/1/2004 12:41:51 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
JusCash(at)aol.com writes:
It looks like the weather is going to be pretty good for the trip to Van's
Homecoming. I plan to leave early Saturday morning. Is anyone else from
So-Cal
and Nor-Cal planing on going.
===============================
Cash-
We'll call you in the air and see you there.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
What frequency will you be on?
Cash
In a message dated 9/1/2004 8:51:09 PM Pacific Standard Time,
Vanremog(at)aol.com writes:
Cash-
We'll call you in the air and see you there.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | The Chairborne Division |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
What are you kidding? Archive this thing.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Austin
Subject: RV-List: The Chairborne Division
Warning !!! Offensive content....delete now..
also, {removed those forgotten words}
The following is not a flying
story.....rather, it is a NON flying story.
I no longer own, nor see, nor will I ever see, the only beautiful thing
I have ever created....my Candy Apple and White RV6A.
This came about for no one single reason, but instead, for a number of
reasons which, at my age, became inevitable.
I have been chairborne for only 2 months and I cannot stand
to look at all the tools and old drawings and know that I will likely
not take them up again, but I do need to fly, and have been looking at
ways to resolve that .
I drive out to old airfields to look at the tiedowns there,
though not a soul appears and there is just me and the tall grass
bending like waves in the wind....and the quiet.
I saw an old airplane which bore the markings I recognized and realized
that I flew that airplane before I was married and any kids, now nearing
40 were born.
They are asking 10 times what that airplane cost new.
Such is the way of airplanes....some are without age, unlike us who
power them aloft.
From where I sit now, with a grand view of the mountain range, still
capped with snow, I compose my own flight forecast and see cloud, with
blue breaks and good vis and declare that a flight of 2 plus hours in an
RV would be adviseable and do-able and immensley gratifying......
But here I sit, at a keyboard, wishing I could just push open the hangar
door and see my racehorse ready to sprint.
And there is Jerry Springer, a man who invites invective, admiration,
and at least, discussion and participation while at this keyboard...
I have met Jerry's airplane many more times than I have met him for he
is always off mingling with good company.
One of lifes great pleasures is going to a flyin breakfast and just
seeing all the nice RVs that come in...if you dare leave the breakfast
line.
RV guys are just good to hang out with and guys like Jerry who did it
the hard way are always good for pointers.
Sure, there are times when I have vowed to quit the list, but there is
a gold mine there for those who wish to dig....this mine was "salted "
by all the old guys who are now flying, and still lurk, hoping to read
something which still keeps the flame alive.
Jerry is not the only guy, and a stirling fellow he is...and a
veteran, and not just in the RV sense.
Many others whose names I no longer see have helped me, saved me
grief and money, and I hope they are still there or lurking.
Apart from the elevation to a select group of diehards who suffer the
slings of those who have never been driven by a mission to create
something both beautiful and unique in order to fly the dream, there is
the knowing that we not only created the instrument of flight, we also
took the next step and took it airborne, thereby stating our trust in
our skill and our mission.
It does go bad sometimes, as witnessed by a news report that
an old guy, like me, test flew his Nieuport WW1 job, his dream of many
years, and crashed and burned, just like in the movies, and paid the
ultimate gamble.
Guys do that sometimes.
How well I can see and replay my last flight, where headwinds and
turbulence made a 2 hour plus flight into 3 plus, where hard banking
between the canyon walls made map reading tough indeed and the river and
railroad way down there were the only true guide between a correct turn
and a wrong one, and finally out over the grass lands where groundspeed
picked up to numbers to make you grin.
The old coach road is still visible and a house and livestock come and
go in a flash over a stand of pine forest.
I even see Bison grazing on reservation land.
Coming home is more of the same hard flying, with smoke of forest fires
laying a carpet of haze way off, and thunder showers making us take a
longer course home.
After dancing through the granite walls, the welcome ocean appears and
fast groundspeed on the GPS as we descend.
Home base says that lightening strikes and thunder showers are south of
the field and strong gusts over the runway and some have diverted
elsewhere, but the strip is close and we land with a little bounce and
the sky is dark and the air very warm as the canopy slides open.
Wind in the hair blows the buzz in the head away some and one just has
to grin at the RV......what an adventure and not to be equaled in any
but an RV !!
It is a very hollow, empty, feeling to go out to the field, punch in the
combination of the gate, and pull up in front of the hangar where your
RV no longer resides, waiting for the bark of the pipes, the checklist,
the zoom out of the circuit, and know that you really have no business
here...you are just a tourist.
I ask about renting and it is not cheap, and the checkout they want
is like 3 hours...this, after you have been flying a racehorse, and of
course, you have to book a week ahead to get a 172.......makes you long
for the old days...RV days.
Now that we "empty nesters" have downsized and do not have a shop
space to build, life is not as fulfilling as in the RV shop days, and I
wish I could just build a tail group to help somebody.
At least there is still some humour about as when I am at the
counter of a flight school and I ask how fast a Cherokee cruises and
they say 110, and they ask me about what I have flown lately and what
does the RV cruise at....I say 180...they exclaim.." what ?? what ?? "
with big eyes..
Like the old saw says...." you can take the man out of the RV, but
you can't take the RV out of the man " !!!
Anybody got an empty seat ?
L.A.T.
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Starter Woes (long) |
My engine, like many, came equipped with the Skytec lightweight starter.
At 7.8 lb. it was a lightweight but the permanent magnet motor spun my
lycoming like it was a big boy.
Then along came the 350 hour mark on my tach and the little lightweight
failed one morning. Click, Click, Click. For some strange reason I
suspected the firewall mounted starter solenoid so I replace it with a
new one. The problem went away so I forgot about it. About a month later
a fast approaching T-storm necessitated a quick start and departure and
the little starter went click, click, I went oh s*#& and then the
solenoid finally caught and off we went. A quick trip to NAPA and I had
a new solenoid mounted on the side of the Skytec and all was well.
300 hours later the scenario started to repeat itself. One cold December
morning while cranking the engine, the starter burped. What I mean is
during the second revolution of the blades the starter disengaged and
then re-engaged in a split second and the crashing sound of gears was
deafening but the engine started.
While at Oshkosh this past year I talked in depth with the manufacturer
and he explained there was a modification for the starter and if I would
send it in they would turn it around in on day leaving my down time to a
minimum. Being of the type that hates to be AOG I put this off until
last Saturday.
On my fifth start of the morning while flying Young Eagles the starter
again burped. Second blade swung around and crash, the gears ground and
everything came to a halt. Click, Click, click was all it would do now.
A couple of guys 1000 feet away came running when they heard the sound,
it was that loud. The prop would not turn freely anymore. I put quite a
bit of force trying to turn the prop but not enough to break anything.
When I removed the cowl I found the gears on the starter were jammed
into the gears on the ring gear and very stuck. The teeth were not
meshed but riding on top of each other. The case of the starter was bent
down 1/4 inch but did not break. When I removed the starter the flat
washer under the bolts were deformed in a cupped shape. Definitely a lot
of force at work here. We hand propped the engine and I headed for my
hangar.
I call Skytec on Monday to see what they would could do but there only
offer was to rebuild mine for 150 bucks no matter what it needed. I was
hoping for an upgrade to their new HTinline (wound motor, not a pm) but
they would not budge. I politely declined and wished them a nice day.
I called B&C and after a long hour on the phone with Bill and 550 bucks
lighter in the wallet I had a new B&C starter on the way. What a beauty
this new starter is. It sounds different, cranks about the same speed
and hopefully will never leave me stranded again. I have only heard good
about B&C's stuff. Time will tell
Gary Zilik
RV-6A 700 TTAE
Pine, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Woes (long) |
he explained there was a modification for the starter
Gary- what vintage is your Sky-Tec? In what way might this difficulty relate to
the fact that it is a PM design?
Curious.
-Bill B
with a '98 vintage SkyTec and 420 trouble-free hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
You have to run a wire between the plates.....so unless you plan on putting
it outside the rear baffle I dont think this will work. The only way to do
this right is to remove the rear baffle on the tank then reinstall a new one
when you finish the cap. kit install. Not an easy task, but it can be done.
I have removed a lot of them to do repairs on various tanks. I destroy about
1 in 10 tanks when I do this.....Personally I think you should just stick
with the float senders
Evan
RV10 wings....creeping along
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings
>
> Jim
> You can still install Vans senders in you QB fuel tanks. However, it
will
> require a bit of surgery to the rear baffle. You'll need to cut 2 access
> holes in the rear baffle. One in the 2nd bay and the other in the 2nd most
> outboard bay. After installation, make two access covers and seal them up.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
> >
> >Is there a capacitance fuel sender that can be used in the 7A-QB
> >wing? The Van's accessories catalog indicates that "the capacitive
system
> >is not available on QB models" I'm assuming this is because the probe
must
> >run the width of the tank and one would have had to drill the baffles to
> >accomplish this during construction of the tanks. ACS carries a couple
but
> >I can't tell if they would work from the catalog description. The
> >archives have a lot on these senders but not the answer to my question.
> >
> >Jim Thorne
> >7A-QB CHD
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Woes (long) |
I don't think the PM design is a downside to this starter. I wanted a
wound motor because it was explained to me that a wound motor takes less
cranking amps than a PM. I figured less is good here. The PM design is
definitely lighter.
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> he explained there was a modification for the starter
>
> Gary- what vintage is your Sky-Tec? In what way might this difficulty relate
to the fact that it is a PM design?
>
> Curious.
>
> -Bill B
> with a '98 vintage SkyTec and 420 trouble-free hours.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bifocal Contact Lens |
I know this is an old thread and considered non-RV related by some on the
list, but if anyone out there is flying with bifocal contact lenses as I was
for a few years...don't. The FAA doesn't approve contact lens for near
vision correction, and that includes the common practice of using one
contact lens for near vision and one for far vision, called "monovision."
However, LASIK surgery correcting one eye for near vision and the other for
far vision is permitted after a waiting period of something like 6 months.
My AME who was a NASA flight surgeon was not aware of the recent re-wording
of the rules until I pointed them out to him.
I will say here that I got very good advice from both EAA and AOPA
physicians who are very knowledgeable. I wear bifocal contacts daily, but
when I go flying I wear single vision contact lens for distant vision and
have reading glasses handy for near vision. (Some military pilots do the
same.)
Also, I should mention I met at Airventure 2002 Dr. Van Nakagawara who is a
Research Optometrist with the FAA in Oklahoma City. He also is very
knowledgeable and helpful.
If you're interested in more details, contact me off-list.
Don Hull
Message
I know this is an
old thread and considerednon-RV related by some onthe list,but
if anyone out there is flying with bifocal contact lenses as I was for a few
years...don't. The FAA doesn't approve contact lens for near vision
correction, and that includes the common practice of using one contact lens for
near vision and one for far vision, called "monovision." However, LASIK
surgery correcting one eye for near vision and the other for far vision is
permitted after a waiting period of something like 6 months. My AME who
was a NASA flight surgeon was not aware of the recent re-wording of the rules
until I pointed them out to him.
I will say here that
I got very good advice from both EAA and AOPA physicians who are very
knowledgeable. I wear bifocal contacts daily, but when I go flying I wear
single vision contact lens for distant vision and have reading glasses handy for
near vision. (Some military pilots do the same.)
Also, I should
mention I met at Airventure 2002 Dr. Van Nakagawara who is a Research
Optometrist with the FAA in Oklahoma City. He also is very knowledgeable
and helpful.
If you're interested in more details, contact me
off-list.
Don Hull
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "noel strong" <nstrong01(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone building an RV8 in Reno / Carson City? |
I have accepted a temporary assignment in the Carson City area and would
like to know if anyone is building an 8 in this area. Please reply offline.
Thanks,
Noel Strong
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gary Zilik <zilik(at)excelgeo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Woes (long) |
Oh I forgot, mine was a 98 vintage. 75% of the O-360 powered RV's on our
field of similar vintage have had similar contactor problems in the
400-500 hour range. Some earlier, some later. We surmise there may have
been a batch of starters that may have be effective. Of course this is
just in our little RV world. Mileage may vary
Gary
Gary Zilik wrote:
>
> I don't think the PM design is a downside to this starter. I wanted a
> wound motor because it was explained to me that a wound motor takes less
> cranking amps than a PM. I figured less is good here. The PM design is
> definitely lighter.
>
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>he explained there was a modification for the starter
>>
>>Gary- what vintage is your Sky-Tec? In what way might this difficulty relate
to the fact that it is a PM design?
>>
>>Curious.
>>
>>-Bill B
>>with a '98 vintage SkyTec and 420 trouble-free hours.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
Evan and Charlie, thanks for the input. Believe I'll go with the float
senders based upon you knowledge, and recommendations.
Jim T
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
Shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
> If I understand it correctly, part of the problem is when the
> 'acquiring' pilot perishes in the plane you have built.
>
> the 'estate' of the perished pilot can sue you regardless of all the
> agreements signed during sale. The 'estate' did not exsist at the time
> of sale but came into being when the pilot perished therefor the estate
> is not bound by the contract signed by the persihed pilot.
>
> Of course there will be legal folks correcting me here...
>
>
> Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Oh certainly. There are disclaimer forms, basically a hold harmless
release
> > that is commonly used. I think EAA has one and I have a copy stached
away
> > on my harddrive somewhere. It basically tries to completely separate
the
> > builder from any and all possible liability once the airplane changes
hands.
> > It's only a piece of paper though, and I'm sure it could be whittled
away
> > by a savvy shyster to next to nothing if pursued hard enough.
> >
> > I'll be dealing with this soon enough when I sell my RV8. Yikes.
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > RV8 N94BD
> > RV10 '51 tailcone/empennage rigging time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
Stein and list...
The registration on our RV6a says "Hangar 10 LLC".
Jerry Cochran
Cliff Gerber
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
Good Luck with the LLC....we'll need our Fed friends to jump in here, but
it's now my understanding that you actually have to have a "Single" person
apply and be named on the airworthiness certificate. As of early this year,
you can't even receive an airworthiness certificate with more than one
persons name on it.
How do I know?? I have an RV6 that I built 2 years ago with my friend and
we were both able to be listed as the mfgrs, et.al and the FAA was fine with
it.
Now, we built another RV6 and finished it this year. The FAA FSDO/MIDO
actually issued us an airworthiness certificate with both names on it, then
rescinded it a week later, making me get a new one with only ONE individuals
name on it.
I was told flatly that no more "partnerships" on the awc, but you can
register and fly it that way if you like. Just that an experimental MUST be
built by a single individual. This was not the case in years past. As the
owner of a small corporation, it's also my understanding that NO coproration
may "build" an experimental aircraft and receive an airworthiness
certificate for it. That being said, you can register it that way, but it
doesn't remove individual liability.
We're on a slippery slope here, and I believe the reason you can't have a
corporation manufacturing aircraft, is then you break the spirit of the
FAR's which require experimental aircraft to built for
educational....etc...purposes. Using a corporation would most likely
trigger the FAR23 rules and require a type certificate, etc..
There's already plenty of "rules" for us individual builders, and there are
a few "builders assistance" centers that are really pushing the envelope
here. Doesn't help that a new engine conversion company is advertising flat
out "Turn Key RV10's built to your spec's", and then they are dumb enough to
actually list the cost of the whole thing including their labor!!!!! I'm
not sure the FAA will be entirely happy about that.
Anyway, the fact is if you build it, there really is no concrete way to
fully and completely insulate yourself from the liability, short of removing
the airworthiness certificate and selling it as parts. The problem here is
that the next guy will have to try and get the thing re-certified......
I may be a little off on some of the above points, but then again it's just
my opinion.
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Installing tires |
I just changed the subject line so an archive search will find this. (was
"More kit frustration")
----- Original Message -----
From: "linn walters" <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: More kit frustration!!
>
> Sam has some good advice. He left out a few items though. Use a lot of
> talc on the inside of the tire, on the tube, and on the rim. Rub it in
> good. Put the tube in the tire. Remove the valve stem. Use a blow gun
> to force some air into the tube and then let it excape. Do this a few
> times. Assemble the rims on the tire. You may have to squeeze the rims
> together with a large clamp to get the nuts started on the bolts.
> Carefully tighten all 3 bolts. Put the valve stem back in and inflate
> like Sam advised.
>
> Don't skip the talc. It'll keep the tube from folding over and creasing
> ..... which will be a leak if the tire loses pressure down the road. It
> also allows the tire/tube to shift a little during use. If you want to
> replace your tubes each time you replace the tire .... go ahead.
> Properly assembled with the talc you can get 6 or 7 tires for each
> tube. At least I do. I've never had a problem (yet) with old tubes.
> The tubes in my Pitts are original. They're now 23 years old, and I may
> replace the tubes next time I change the tires.
> Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
Actually, that isn't exactly true. Although, I agree that building it with parts
received from the kit manufacturer (and unaltered), according to their plans
is the very best thing you can do to protect yourself (and have an independant
person do an annual as the pre-buy inspection when you sell it). The statement
you reference from a seminar about negligence was wrong as negligence isn't
necessary for product liability to be determined.
Here is an excerpt from an article by an aviation attorney on product liability.
The link to the entire article is below as well. Notice how he includes the
seller along with the manufacturer (in this case I'd say assembler, although
Van has some strict liability as well as manufacturer of the kit and having engineered
the design).
To successfully sue a pilot or operator, a victim must prove that they were negligent
and that their negligence was a cause of the crash. However, manufacturers
and sellers can be sued even if the injured person cannot prove negligence
by the manufacturer. In almost all states, a victim can hold a manufacturer or
seller "strictly liable" if the plaintiff's attorney can prove that a defect
in the product was a cause of his injuries. The plaintiff does not have to prove
negligence by the manufacturer.
You can checkout the entire article here http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181885-1.html but I'd recommend having a pillow nearby when reading this entire article.
There was a recent case against a manufacturer which was settled by them even though
there was not a defect. One of their first 150 planes was crashed in 2001
by the owner and a passenger was paralyzed. This aircraft had a parachute
system on it, which the owner elected not to use. He aimed for a cornfield after
his engine quit. He apparently was (rightfully) busy and nervous and tried
to 'land' on the tops of the corn, stalled high and came down pretty hard.
The FBO which had changed the oil, had failed to safety the drain plug back in.
The engine had emptied of oil, and seized. The FBO had very low limits of liability
and the owners policy did too. The manufacturers insurance company for
products liability held 3 mock trials and each had the same outcome - The manufacturer
had no liability, but seeing as this person who was paralyzed deserved
something they sided against the deep-pocketed manufacturer. So, there really
doesn't have to be a defect.
The real learning point (I guess) is to devoid yourself of assets. The attorneys
will go after whomever has the money. I have several insureds who have incorporated
a company to own the plane, etc and I've had others who own nothing
but the plane (only if you trust your wife a lot).
Please let me know (I trust you will) if you have any questions.
JT
P.S. The FAA looks the other way, but according to the FAR's either a person or
a company may own a plane. However, it disallows a company from owning a plane
if the business has no other purpose other than owning the plane. I have many
insureds who set up LLCs or Inc's to own the plane (both certified and homebuilt)
and the FAA never has said a word.
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Dowling
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, September 02, 2004 12:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
Shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
To:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
> If I understand it correctly, part of the problem is when the
> 'acquiring' pilot perishes in the plane you have built.
>
> the 'estate' of the perished pilot can sue you regardless of all the
> agreements signed during sale. The 'estate' did not exsist at the time
> of sale but came into being when the pilot perished therefor the estate
> is not bound by the contract signed by the persihed pilot.
>
> Of course there will be legal folks correcting me here...
>
>
> Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Oh certainly. There are disclaimer forms, basically a hold harmless
release
> > that is commonly used. I think EAA has one and I have a copy stached
away
> > on my harddrive somewhere. It basically tries to completely separate
the
> > builder from any and all possible liability once the airplane changes
hands.
> > It's only a piece of paper though, and I'm sure it could be whittled
away
> > by a savvy shyster to next to nothing if pursued hard enough.
> >
> > I'll be dealing with this soon enough when I sell my RV8. Yikes.
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > RV8 N94BD
> > RV10 '51 tailcone/empennage rigging time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
>You have to run a wire between the plates.....so unless you plan on putting
>it outside the rear baffle I dont think this will work. The only way to do
>this right is to remove the rear baffle on the tank then reinstall a new one
>
>
That sounds like the hard way to me. Why can't you do it with the 2
access holes in the rear baffle. With those holes, and the main access
hole at the wing root, you should have very good access to mount stuff
in the tank and run wires where ever they need to go. What am I not
seeing here?
--
Chris W
Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org
Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
You will still have to spend 15k to defend your self, and prove you built
it correctly.
>
>I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
>would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
>liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
>
>Shemp
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> >
> > If I understand it correctly, part of the problem is when the
> > 'acquiring' pilot perishes in the plane you have built.
> >
> > the 'estate' of the perished pilot can sue you regardless of all the
> > agreements signed during sale. The 'estate' did not exsist at the time
> > of sale but came into being when the pilot perished therefor the estate
> > is not bound by the contract signed by the persihed pilot.
> >
> > Of course there will be legal folks correcting me here...
> >
> >
> > Brian Denk wrote:
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Oh certainly. There are disclaimer forms, basically a hold harmless
>release
> > > that is commonly used. I think EAA has one and I have a copy stached
>away
> > > on my harddrive somewhere. It basically tries to completely separate
>the
> > > builder from any and all possible liability once the airplane changes
>hands.
> > > It's only a piece of paper though, and I'm sure it could be whittled
>away
> > > by a savvy shyster to next to nothing if pursued hard enough.
> > >
> > > I'll be dealing with this soon enough when I sell my RV8. Yikes.
> > >
> > > Brian Denk
> > > RV8 N94BD
> > > RV10 '51 tailcone/empennage rigging time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > --
> > is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Monty Barrett" <bpa(at)bpaengines.com> |
| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
If it is anything like the engine business, you will have to PROVE you were
not negligent. Cost---about $50K per trip.
Monty Barrett
BPA engines
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Dowling
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
Shemp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
> If I understand it correctly, part of the problem is when the
> 'acquiring' pilot perishes in the plane you have built.
>
> the 'estate' of the perished pilot can sue you regardless of all the
> agreements signed during sale. The 'estate' did not exsist at the time
> of sale but came into being when the pilot perished therefor the estate
> is not bound by the contract signed by the persihed pilot.
>
> Of course there will be legal folks correcting me here...
>
>
> Brian Denk wrote:
>
>
> >
> > Oh certainly. There are disclaimer forms, basically a hold harmless
release
> > that is commonly used. I think EAA has one and I have a copy stached
away
> > on my harddrive somewhere. It basically tries to completely separate
the
> > builder from any and all possible liability once the airplane changes
hands.
> > It's only a piece of paper though, and I'm sure it could be whittled
away
> > by a savvy shyster to next to nothing if pursued hard enough.
> >
> > I'll be dealing with this soon enough when I sell my RV8. Yikes.
> >
> > Brian Denk
> > RV8 N94BD
> > RV10 '51 tailcone/empennage rigging time.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
> is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire gage, length, amp chart |
<>
Michael, try this;
_http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf_
(http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/wiresize.pdf)
Bob Trumpfheller
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire gage, length, amp chart |
Mike,
Just Google AC43.13 Chapter 11 has the wire size and Chapter 7 has bolt torque.
Alan Kritzman
Cedar Rapids, IA
Can you believe after at least 30 minutes of hunting a good chart on
this, I cant find one on-line or in the archives.
I'm looking for one similar to the one that comes with the plans, but
hopefully a little more detailed, or at least bigger.
It lists amps, wire gage, & wire lengths to give you a rough idea on
the appropriate wire to use.
Also a bolt torque spec table with sizes for AN bolts would also be nice
so I can print it and post it in the shop
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Woes (long) |
I had a similar experience with a Skytec flyweight starter last month.
Mine failed in a similar manner as I was about to depart for the
whopping 75 mile trip from home to Oshkosh. It had about 80 hours since
new. I also talked to Skytec (as well as B&C and Lightspeed) at some
length at the convention, and I learned a lot about starters. The
flyweight does use a PM motor, which has the advantages of light weight
and low cost. The disadvantage is that it can draw a huge amount of
current during startup (600A or so) when under a heavy load, say, up
against the first compression stroke but can't quite get over it. I
frequently had trouble getting over the first stroke since day one with
my airplane. My wood prop with low inertia no doubt makes this worse.
Also I have the little 17A Panasonic RG battery.
What I learned was that a wound field motor (such as the B&C, the new
Skytec Hi-torque inline, or the older Skytec HT model) only draws around
200A peak, vs. 600. That little 17A battery wouldn't put out 600A if
you laid a crowbar across the terminals. This situation leads to
starting problems, as the starter doesn't have enough juice to get over
the first compression stroke, which MAY have contributed to kickbacks
which MAY have damaged the starter.
I also ended up buying a B&C, and it runs like a champ. It has no
trouble getting over the first compression stroke and spins the prop
very rapidly. In fairness, I suspect that the wound field version of
the Skytec starter would perform as well, but I was about fed up with
Skytec at the time.
My conclusion from all this: the flyweight may be an OK choice if you
have a large battery, and/or a metal or C/S prop. If you have the same
setup as me (wood prop, small battery) than the flyweight is not a good
choice and you should look at the wound field starters.
Anyone else have my setup and experience problems with the flyweight?
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com> |
| Subject: | Ellison Throttle Body |
I have an XP360 with an Ellison Throttle Body. In flight, when I pull the throttle
to idle, the engine pops and I suspect that the idle mixture is too rich.
Has anyone had this problem and if so how much did you have to adjust the idle
screw to fix it. Any advice would be appreciated.
Jim Cone
3-peat offender
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Ellison Throttle Body |
I just talked to my engine builder (last week) about the popping issue and
he suggested I check the idle mixture. Sure enough I got 90 RPM rise. Since
I am at sea level I should have little to no rise, right? With that said, I
have been told by the engine builder, Air Flow Performance, and Vetterman
Exhaust that some popping is normal with an injected engine.
In your case I wonder if the Ellison throttle body counts as an injected
engine?
>
>I have an XP360 with an Ellison Throttle Body. In flight, when I pull the
>throttle to idle, the engine pops and I suspect that the idle mixture is
>too rich. Has anyone had this problem and if so how much did you have to
>adjust the idle screw to fix it. Any advice would be appreciated.
>
>Jim Cone
>3-peat offender
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
Chris....The capacitance senders are wired together in series within the
tank. So it goes from a BNC connector on the inboard rib, to the plate in
the second bay then to the plate in the second to last bay. The standard way
to run the wire is to wrap it around the vent line tube and run it within
the tank. So you have to have access to all of the bays to do this. The
other problem is that the plates are mounted by screws through the 2nd and
second to last rib. So you have to have access to both sides of those ribs
just to mount the plates.....Thats a minimum of four bays right there, so
you might as well pull off the baffle.
Just my opinion :)
Evan (200+ sets of tanks so far)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W" <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings
<1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
>
> Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> >
> >You have to run a wire between the plates.....so unless you plan on
putting
> >it outside the rear baffle I dont think this will work. The only way to
do
> >this right is to remove the rear baffle on the tank then reinstall a new
one
> >
> >
>
> That sounds like the hard way to me. Why can't you do it with the 2
> access holes in the rear baffle. With those holes, and the main access
> hole at the wing root, you should have very good access to mount stuff
> in the tank and run wires where ever they need to go. What am I not
> seeing here?
>
> --
> Chris W
>
> Bring Back the HP 15C
> http://hp15c.org
>
> Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
Chris W wrote:
>
>Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>You have to run a wire between the plates.....so unless you plan on putting
>>it outside the rear baffle I dont think this will work. The only way to do
>>this right is to remove the rear baffle on the tank then reinstall a new one
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>That sounds like the hard way to me. Why can't you do it with the 2
>access holes in the rear baffle. With those holes, and the main access
>hole at the wing root, you should have very good access to mount stuff
>in the tank and run wires where ever they need to go. What am I not
>seeing here?
>
>
>
Simplest is one of the coaxial (tubular) capacitive probes. If you trust
yourself to get all the drill shavings out, you can drill from the
bottom of the root rib up & out at an angle through the other ribs &
just slide it in. If you aren't in a hurry I'll try to find the link
tonight or tomorrow.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tracy <tracyinva(at)gmail.com> |
please take me off this list.I did not sign up for it
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wire gauge, length, amp chart |
| From: | "Jamie Painter" <jdpainter(at)jpainter.org> |
Mike:
> Also a bolt torque spec table with sizes for AN bolts would also be nice
> so I can print it and post it in the shop
The Cleavland Tool catalog has a nice tear out chart with rivet sizes, bolt
torques, wire gauge/amperage, etc. Not sure if this is what you're looking
for, but I find it useful.
--
Jamie D. Painter
RV-7A wings
http://rv.jpainter.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ed " <ed_88(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
From: "ed \240" <ed_88@hotmai...
I don't really see how that is possible to build it "correctly" from a
lawyer's point of view. If nothing else as soon as you do something like use
a solid rivet where the plans call for a pop rivet, you are already ignoring
the plans. Not to mention there are so many choices around things like
engine / avionics / etc, they can always say you put in inferior parts.
While I will look into the LLC for improved protection, it sounds like
I should just be willing to take a big hit and sell for parts rather than a
complete plane. Personaly my plan is to never sell, so this shouldn't be an
issue. But I do know that plans can change.
Thanks everyone for your advice,
--Eddie
>From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:37:56 -0500
>
>
>I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
>would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
>liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
>
>Shemp
>
Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Slayden <steve_slayden(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
How do you remove the rear baffle after you drill out the rivets? I assume it's
all pro-sealed together. Can you pull it apart or do you have to use some solvent
like MEK? As you might have guess I have not had the exciting opportunity
to use pro-seal yet :)
Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: --> RV-List message posted
by: "Evan and Megan Johnson"
Chris....The capacitance senders are wired together in series within the
tank. So it goes from a BNC connector on the inboard rib, to the plate in
the second bay then to the plate in the second to last bay. The standard way
to run the wire is to wrap it around the vent line tube and run it within
the tank. So you have to have access to all of the bays to do this. The
other problem is that the plates are mounted by screws through the 2nd and
second to last rib. So you have to have access to both sides of those ribs
just to mount the plates.....Thats a minimum of four bays right there, so
you might as well pull off the baffle.
Just my opinion :)
Evan (200+ sets of tanks so far)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris W" <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings
<1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
>
> Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> >
> >You have to run a wire between the plates.....so unless you plan on
putting
> >it outside the rear baffle I dont think this will work. The only way to
do
> >this right is to remove the rear baffle on the tank then reinstall a new
one
> >
> >
>
> That sounds like the hard way to me. Why can't you do it with the 2
> access holes in the rear baffle. With those holes, and the main access
> hole at the wing root, you should have very good access to mount stuff
> in the tank and run wires where ever they need to go. What am I not
> seeing here?
>
> --
> Chris W
>
> Bring Back the HP 15C
> http://hp15c.org
>
> Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Van's Homecoming |
In a message dated 9/1/2004 11:30:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
JusCash(at)aol.com writes:
What frequency will you be on?
============================
122.75
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 710 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal / Carol Kempthorne <kempthornes(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
Hi y'all,
I'm no lawyer either but I did do quite a bit of independent studying of
business law when running my own business. A few things I think I know:
Anybody can sue anybody for anything at any time. Find and retain
a good lawyer.
Most suits are settled out of court.
It can be difficult to find a lawyer to take on a silly case,
especially if you aren't paying cash up front.
Few attempt to sue those who have little to sue for. Keep your
own financial status very private and own little.
Don't do things that are illegal or sneaky.
Don't set up a corporation just to avoid liability - it is
possible to "pierce the corporate veil".
I had a customer , former friend, sue my little Honda shop corporation. He
crashed while racing his motorcycle and blamed us for not adjusting his
brakes properly. I asked him what he thought he was doing and he told me
that this starving lawyer called him and offered to take the case on (what
is the word? percentage of proceeds?) . My insurer offered my very sharp
attorney any possible help. A kid who hung around the shop helped by
swearing that he saw the plaintiff adjust his own brakes at the race. ( A
likely story - not). Had me pretty uptight but after my attorney called
the other a nitwit, they dropped the case. I think he also promised a
monster counter suit.
You can counter sue the other guy for your costs - real or imagined.
I have met several people who have sold their aircraft without a contract -
I think this is very stupid.
K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne
RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now.
PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rebibb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
Frankly I think this is not a big deal unless...you have a huge net worth.
Lawyers only want to go after things with big deep pockets - namely
insurance companies that will settle instead of risk a jury trial where its
poor little ole Leroy against the big bad Drug Company that just made him
take 152 of those god awlful diet pills. That's were Geraldine and her 11
cousins in Mississippi just decide to right the terrible wrong and award
something like a Billion dollar judgement.
In the case of selling an RV there ain't no insurance company to sue. And,
unless you have a multi-seven figure net worth I doubt the risk of a big
suit is anything much to worry about. You ain't Cessna that has big
liability insurance policies....
Of course you can be sued, may be sued, etc. But I doubt it and I can
almost guarantee you would not lose. No trial lawyer is going to risk a
contingecy fee lawsuit on a case so flimsy....
Just my opinion....
----- Original Message -----
From: "ed " <ed_88(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
>
>
> I don't really see how that is possible to build it "correctly" from
a
> lawyer's point of view. If nothing else as soon as you do something like
use
> a solid rivet where the plans call for a pop rivet, you are already
ignoring
> the plans. Not to mention there are so many choices around things like
> engine / avionics / etc, they can always say you put in inferior parts.
>
> While I will look into the LLC for improved protection, it sounds
like
> I should just be willing to take a big hit and sell for parts rather than
a
> complete plane. Personaly my plan is to never sell, so this shouldn't be
an
> issue. But I do know that plans can change.
>
> Thanks everyone for your advice,
> --Eddie
>
>
> >From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To:
> >Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
> >Date: Thu, 2 Sep 2004 12:37:56 -0500
> >
> >
> >I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
> >would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
> >liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
> >
> >Shemp
> >
>
> Check out Election 2004 for up-to-date election news, plus voter tools and
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Brian Huffaker <bifft(at)xmission.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Steve Slayden wrote:
>
> How do you remove the rear baffle after you drill out the rivets? I
>assume it's all pro-sealed together. Can you pull it apart or do you have
>to use some solvent like MEK? As you might have guess I have not had the
>exciting opportunity to use pro-seal yet :)
I had to replace a baffle after the tank wouldn't fit back on the wing
(built some twist into the tank when riviting). Used a heat gun to soften
the proseal, then a putty knive to cut/pry the baffle free from the
ribs/skin.
Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
RV-8A 80091 drilling gear mounts.
1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David" <davewendi(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
> I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was that you
> would have to be found negligent in your building practices to have any
> liability. Build it correctly and dont worry about.
>
> Shemp
With all due respect, tell that to Parker Hannifan.
David Kirby
RV-A QB
=======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Ammeter <jammeter(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
>
>On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Steve Slayden wrote:
>
>>
>> How do you remove the rear baffle after you drill out the rivets? I
>>assume it's all pro-sealed together. Can you pull it apart or do you have
>>to use some solvent like MEK? As you might have guess I have not had the
>>exciting opportunity to use pro-seal yet :)
>
> I had to replace a baffle after the tank wouldn't fit back on the wing
>(built some twist into the tank when riviting). Used a heat gun to soften
>the proseal, then a putty knive to cut/pry the baffle free from the
>ribs/skin.
>
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
> RV-8A 80091 drilling gear mounts.
> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
Rather than removing the baffle wouldn't it be simpler and
easier to just cut large access holes in the baffle itself?
Center the holes in each bay, make the holes large enough to
work through and pop rivet (using those same rivets you used
to attach the baffle to the ribs earlier) a patch on each
hole. Or, if you think you may ever need access again to
the tank, use screws instead of rivets...
One real good reason to avoid removing the baffle is that
you may not rivet the baffle back in the same position and
now the tank won't fit your wing...
John Ammeter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil" <phatphill(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Bifocal Contact Lens |
I wear then when I fly and I'm going to stop because the FAA is not up to
speed on the technology.
I just hope the sky cops don't pull me over and check my vision.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hull, Don
Subject: RV-List: Bifocal Contact Lens
I know this is an old thread and considered non-RV related by some on the
list, but if anyone out there is flying with bifocal contact lenses as I was
for a few years...don't. The FAA doesn't approve contact lens for near
vision correction, and that includes the common practice of using one
contact lens for near vision and one for far vision, called "monovision."
However, LASIK surgery correcting one eye for near vision and the other for
far vision is permitted after a waiting period of something like 6 months.
My AME who was a NASA flight surgeon was not aware of the recent re-wording
of the rules until I pointed them out to him.
I will say here that I got very good advice from both EAA and AOPA
physicians who are very knowledgeable. I wear bifocal contacts daily, but
when I go flying I wear single vision contact lens for distant vision and
have reading glasses handy for near vision. (Some military pilots do the
same.)
Also, I should mention I met at Airventure 2002 Dr. Van Nakagawara who is a
Research Optometrist with the FAA in Oklahoma City. He also is very
knowledgeable and helpful.
If you're interested in more details, contact me off-list.
Don Hull
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Liability when you sell an RV? |
| From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
09/02/2004 04:46:08 PM,
Serialize complete at 09/02/2004 04:46:08 PM
My personal life insurance had an exclusion for GA as well, I inquired
about getting a rider on the policy to drop the exclusion, they came back
a couple of weeks later and gave me the rider, for no additional cost! I
think my agent pointed out to them that I wouldn't get the policy with the
exclusion in place.
Scott
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
09/02/2004 03:55 PM
Please respond to rv-list
To:
cc:
Subject: RE: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
This whole thread has been very informative and caused me to do some
checking on related issues such as life insurance. What I found is that
both my company and personal life insurance policies specifically
exclude injury/death as a result of an accident as either pilot or
passenger in a general aviation aircraft. Gives one pause for thought!!
When you consider that this activity is statistically safer than driving
a car (especially here in Utah) it make you wonder. Can you get specific
coverage for this as a separate policy?
Dave Figgins RV-7A empennage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | LASAR installation question |
A little help would be appreciated from those of you who have wired your the
LASAR ignition. Are shielded wires necessary on the left and right magneto
"P" leads? I brought my LASAR unshielded magneto P leads (blue and green) from
the LASAR control box, in through my firewall and to my left magneto and right
magneto switches. At shutdown these switches are closed to ground. When the
engine is running these switches are open.
The LASAR instructions talk about a shielded wire from the standard (all in
one) switch to the magneto P leads but give no help in how long this shielded
wire should be nor how the shield should be grounded. I asked technical
support at Unison (makers of LASAR) about shielded magneto P lead wires, but got
a
"We don't know" answer. I also asked on the Aeroelectric List and did an
archive search with no success. Perhaps some of you who have LASAR systems will
help me understand if the LASAR magneto P leads from the control box need
replacement with shielded wires, or if I can use them unshielded through switches
to
ground as I currently have them wired.
Thanks.
Pete Hunt
Clearwater, FL
RV-6, Finishing wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR installation question |
> A little help would be appreciated from those of you who have wired your
the
> LASAR ignition. Are shielded wires necessary on the left and right
magneto
> "P" leads? I brought my LASAR unshielded magneto P leads (blue and green)
from
> the LASAR control box, in through my firewall and to my left magneto and
right
> magneto switches. At shutdown these switches are closed to ground. When
the
> engine is running these switches are open.
Shielded wires not required. Technically those aren't P-leads.
> The LASAR instructions talk about a shielded wire from the standard (all
in
> one) switch to the magneto P leads but give no help in how long this
shielded
> wire should be nor how the shield should be grounded. I asked technical
> support at Unison (makers of LASAR) about shielded magneto P lead wires,
but got a
> "We don't know" answer.
Support from LASAR was first rate when Harry Fenton was there, but I
understand he's left the company. Still, I've talked to other knowledgable
people there before, you might have hit them at a bad time. I wired the blue
and green wires directly to my Gerdes key/switch as you describe with no
shielding... worked perfectly, and it's been awhile, but IIRC that's what
the manual specified.
Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.matronics.com/subscription
----- Original Message -----
| From: | "Tracy" <tracyinva(at)gmail.com> |
>
> please take me off this list.I did not sign up for it
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings |
I will preface by reminding you that I think you should use the standard
senders in this case. BUT, its your plane, if you want to take it apart, use
a putty knife that you sharpen on a grinder to cut through the sealant. Dont
use a heat gun if you have ever filled up your tank with fuel (boom) its not
worth the risk. I have removed at least a dozen rear baffles like this and
it works (mostly).....feel free to call me if you wish.
Evan Johnson
(530)351-1776
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Huffaker" <bifft(at)xmission.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Capacitance fuel senders in QB wings
>
> On Thu, 2 Sep 2004, Steve Slayden wrote:
>
> >
> > How do you remove the rear baffle after you drill out the rivets? I
> >assume it's all pro-sealed together. Can you pull it apart or do you have
> >to use some solvent like MEK? As you might have guess I have not had the
> >exciting opportunity to use pro-seal yet :)
>
> I had to replace a baffle after the tank wouldn't fit back on the wing
> (built some twist into the tank when riviting). Used a heat gun to soften
> the proseal, then a putty knive to cut/pry the baffle free from the
> ribs/skin.
>
>
> Brian Huffaker, DSWL (bifft(at)xmission.com)
> RV-8A 80091 drilling gear mounts.
> 1/4 Starduster II N23UT flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Huft" <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | LASAR installation question |
These are not the usual P-leads that will radiate EMI and need to be
shielded. They are just logic-level signals that talk to the brain box. The
green and blue wires that are supplied are fine, with toggles or key switch.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: LASAR installation question
A little help would be appreciated from those of you who have wired your the
LASAR ignition. Are shielded wires necessary on the left and right magneto
"P" leads? I brought my LASAR unshielded magneto P leads (blue and green)
from
the LASAR control box, in through my firewall and to my left magneto and
right
magneto switches. At shutdown these switches are closed to ground. When
the
engine is running these switches are open.
The LASAR instructions talk about a shielded wire from the standard (all in
one) switch to the magneto P leads but give no help in how long this
shielded
wire should be nor how the shield should be grounded. I asked technical
support at Unison (makers of LASAR) about shielded magneto P lead wires, but
got a
"We don't know" answer. I also asked on the Aeroelectric List and did an
archive search with no success. Perhaps some of you who have LASAR systems
will
help me understand if the LASAR magneto P leads from the control box need
replacement with shielded wires, or if I can use them unshielded through
switches to
ground as I currently have them wired.
Thanks.
Pete Hunt
Clearwater, FL
RV-6, Finishing wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related, delete |
at will
>
> Perhaps if we simply added "friendship" to "RV-building" as a purpose of
> this list, the signal-to-noise ratio would look a lot better.
What sad commentary on our society that we would have to????
Just my thoughts,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | Bifocal Contact Lens |
Phil,
I was a little ticked off when I had to invest in another pair of contacts
for flying. But I immediately noticed two things that may or not be true
for other bifocal contact lens wearers: One, the "response" time to go from
distant focus to near focus was much, much quicker with the reading glasses
and single focus contacts. Two, my "depth of field" (photographic
term...the optometrists use another term but it's essentially the same) was
much deeper with my reading glasses combined with my single focus contacts.
My apologies to the other folks on the list, since this may not be
considered RV related, but I have a strong belief that when we plan our
instrument panels on our RV's we need to be sure everything is in focus.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Phil [mailto:phatphill(at)comcast.net]
Subject: RE: RV-List: Bifocal Contact Lens
I wear then when I fly and I'm going to stop because the FAA is not up to
speed on the technology. I just hope the sky cops don't pull me over and
check my vision.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hull, Don
Subject: RV-List: Bifocal Contact Lens
I know this is an old thread and considered non-RV related by some on the
list, but if anyone out there is flying with bifocal contact lenses as I was
for a few years...don't. The FAA doesn't approve contact lens for near
vision correction, and that includes the common practice of using one
contact lens for near vision and one for far vision, called "monovision."
However, LASIK surgery correcting one eye for near vision and the other for
far vision is permitted after a waiting period of something like 6 months.
My AME who was a NASA flight surgeon was not aware of the recent re-wording
of the rules until I pointed them out to him.
I will say here that I got very good advice from both EAA and AOPA
physicians who are very knowledgeable. I wear bifocal contacts daily, but
when I go flying I wear single vision contact lens for distant vision and
have reading glasses handy for near vision. (Some military pilots do the
same.)
Also, I should mention I met at Airventure 2002 Dr. Van Nakagawara who is a
Research Optometrist with the FAA in Oklahoma City. He also is very
knowledgeable and helpful.
If you're interested in more details, contact me off-list.
Don Hull
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Aluminum blade MT propeller for Lyconing 320 |
Hi All,
MT Propeller has just completed the analysis on their aluminum 2 blade CS
propeller for the Lycoming 320 engine, and determined that the performance will
be very good for this engine.
Mt Propeller delivers this propeller with a spinner to match your existing
RV cowl installation for a 13" diameter spinner.
The older RV-3 and RV-4 models with the 12" diameter spinner will need to be
reviewed on a case by case basis.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
Less Drag Products, Inc.
HR2 OEM Distributor for MT Propeller
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
Stein,
We bought from the builder, then registered under our LLC, so guess I buy
you a beer, but it'll have to be one of our fine Oregon microbrews... Black
Butte Porter o.k.?
Jerry Cochran
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: LLC
Exactly....you can "Register" it as anything you want, including a
corporation, partnership, etc...
What does your airworthiness certificate and dataplate say as the mfgr??
If it says LLC then you win, if it doesn't, then you owe me a beer!
Cheers,
Stein.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Heat Muff over exhaust joint |
Any history of heat muff(s) placed over (enclosing) joints in Vetterman
exhausts?
Any detectable CO in the cockpit?
Jack
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
On 15:16 02/09/2004 "David" wrote:
> > I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was
> > that you would have to be found negligent in your building
> > practices to have any liability. Build it correctly and dont
> > worry about.
>
> With all due respect, tell that to Parker Hannifan.
With all due respect, Parker Hannifan was found liable in a court of law.
Which suggests there is at least some question as to whether there was some
negligence in design or negligence in activities after the fact. From an
article on the verdict:
"federal investigators found that Parker Hannifin vacuum pumps failed in 20
other plane crashes, killing 46 people, between 1981 to 1998. He said the
company knew the pumps could fail at any time but continued to manufacture
the pumps until shortly after the Carnahan crash. The company sent
warnings to pilots suggesting they install a backup system for the vacuum
pumps and said it frequently urged the Federal Aviation Administration to
make the backup systems mandatory, but the government agency declined to do
so."
Their actions alone suggest that PH may have decided there was a deficiency
that should be corrected, or at least "backed up". Now we're not going to
resolve what actually happened in this case by debating it here, but it's
far from clear that PH was completely free of culpability.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
In the case I mentioned, however, which settled within the last 2 months, all three
mock juries came back with the same result, no culpability on the part of
the manufacturer. And yet the injured party (paralyzed) deserved something,
and the only party involved (merely due to the fact that it was one of their planes)
that had any money to give him was the manufacturer. The owner didn't
own much, and the FBO which was truly at fault (didn't safety wire the drain plug
back into the plane after oil change) didn't own anything of value either.
They leased all the planes, buildings, etc. and didn't own anything but an insurance
policy with miniscule limits.
So, the manufacturer settled. Granted those weren't actual court proceedings,
but they were run by the insurance company which was going to end up paying out
if the manufacturer was found liable, or settled. The insurance company recommended
settling after 3 seperate mock trials all came up the same.
All please have a safe and happy Labor Day weekend!
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: Rob Prior
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 03, 2004 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Liability when you sell an RV?
On 15:16 02/09/2004 "David" wrote:
> > I went to a seminar regarding this and what I got out of it was
> > that you would have to be found negligent in your building
> > practices to have any liability. Build it correctly and dont
> > worry about.
>
> With all due respect, tell that to Parker Hannifan.
With all due respect, Parker Hannifan was found liable in a court of law.
Which suggests there is at least some question as to whether there was some
negligence in design or negligence in activities after the fact. From an
article on the verdict:
"federal investigators found that Parker Hannifin vacuum pumps failed in 20
other plane crashes, killing 46 people, between 1981 to 1998. He said the
company knew the pumps could fail at any time but continued to manufacture
the pumps until shortly after the Carnahan crash. The company sent
warnings to pilots suggesting they install a backup system for the vacuum
pumps and said it frequently urged the Federal Aviation Administration to
make the backup systems mandatory, but the government agency declined to do
so."
Their actions alone suggest that PH may have decided there was a deficiency
that should be corrected, or at least "backed up". Now we're not going to
resolve what actually happened in this case by debating it here, but it's
far from clear that PH was completely free of culpability.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related, delete |
at
will
Agreed - but isn't support/motivation already there.
Chuck
>From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Chairborne vs the List Police -- not very RV related,
>delete at will
>Date: Fri, 3 Sep 2004 08:27:40 -0500
>
>
> >
> > Perhaps if we simply added "friendship" to "RV-building" as a purpose of
> > this list, the signal-to-noise ratio would look a lot better.
>
>What sad commentary on our society that we would have to????
>
>Just my thoughts,
>
>Doug Rozendaal
>
>
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
Any history of heat muff(s) placed over (enclosing) joints in Vetterman
exhausts?
Any detectable CO in the cockpit?
Jack
My suggestion on the "Kevorkian heat muff" set-up: don't go there. Not even with
a CO monitor. There are ways to make this work without bridging a joint, but
I know from experience it's tight.
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: wire gage, length, amp chart |
Mike,
You may have missed my e-mail - a useful chart you are looking for is Fig.
8-4 in Bob Nuckoll's "Aeroelectric Connection" book. The wire gauges are
on the x axis, 22 awg on left and bigger wires going to the right. You go
straight up from any wire gauge to one of the 2 or 3 guidelines (how much
temperature rise you want to accept). Delta 35 deg C/63 deg F is the top
guide line that Bob told us to draw in the e-mail I sent to you - the
guideline starts at "10 amps" straight up from 22 awg and slopes up to the
right - parallel to the existing guidelines I think. You then re-label the
"35 degree C" guideline (the one starting at 5 amps) to be "10 deg C/18 deg
F rise".
Even though 22 awg won't overheat at 7 amps "steady state", the pitot heat
draws a LOT more than 7 amps during the warm up time. I have a lot of
e-mails saved on that topic. I've attached 4 and will send this to your
personal e-mail as well as the "list" (which strips attachments).
So, a problem with "a chart on the wall that I can look at and it will tell
me what size wire to use" is the problem that some circuits don't have a
simple, "single or steady state current draw". You have to know the
characteristics of your device that is drawing the current. What you and
all of us would like is a "knowledge base" or "systems design" chart, that
tells us, by system - not by "steady state current draw" - what size wire,
with a hyperlink or footnote to tell how that was derived.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: wire gage, length, amp chart
>
> Your pdf shows bad file for me using v6 Adobe.
> Also with all the return posts, that math was real nice, certainly nice
> to know, and I did at one time, but not what I was looking for. Let me
> try again. Example. Pitot heat is 7 amps, 12' wire run. What is the
> appropriate wire gage? I want to look at a simple chart
> on my wall that tells me the appropriate wire size. I don't want to
> calculate L1 based on conductive temperatures of 20deg c and so forth.
>
>
> If anyone knows of a nice graph chart of wire length, amps, and gage,
> please fwd.
>
> Thanks
> Mike Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
rv-list
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Hi folks
For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment.
How have you brought the wire from the battery to the starter contactor
through the firewall??
what kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention have you used.
pro's/con's??
thanks
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Heat Muff over exhaust joint |
> Any history of heat muff(s) placed over (enclosing) joints
> in Vetterman
> exhausts?
> Any detectable CO in the cockpit?
>
> Jack
Jack,
Those things leak quite a bit, I think the only history would be found
in the NTSB report of the crash.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 519 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David" <davewendi(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Liability when you sell an RV? |
.
Now we're not going to
> resolve what actually happened in this case by debating it here, but it's
> far from clear that PH was completely free of culpability.
>
> -Rob
The above may be true but, from what I have read, it's
far from clear that PH was the "cause" of the accident.
As a matter of fact, the information that has been published suggests that
PH had absolutely nothing to do with the cause of the accident. While I
don't pretend to have all the facts concerning this case, the point I am
trying to make is that you can be sued for any reason, and you can lose for
no reason. Happens every day and much too often!
David Kirby
RV6-A QB
=======================================================================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Heat Muff over exhaust joint |
Never a good idea to put a heat muff over a
exhaust slip joint or ball joint. They will expand
at operating temps and eventually loosen up.
Deadly as you can imagine!
Stew RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Don't feed the cable thru the firewall.
Use an insulated brass, etc. bolt to penetrate the firewall, with a
cable used on both sides of the firewall.
John Danielson
RV-6 Sold
Harmon Rocket
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gert
Subject: RV-List: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall??
Hi folks
For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment.
How have you brought the wire from the battery to the starter contactor
through the firewall??
what kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention have you used.
pro's/con's??
thanks
Gert
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: >Re:how to feed the battery cable through the fir |
Gert;
You didn't mention which Rv you are building.
In our RV-4 I mounted the starter relay on the backside of the firewall and
ran the cable through the left sidewall into the cowl cheek and on to the
starter. I wanted to keep the relay in the cooler environment.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hedrick OD" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net> |
Oh great list,
I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
with this problem.
thanks
Keith Hedrick
RV 6
3LF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jammeter(at)comcast.net |
You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air problems on
my RV-6
John
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Oh great list,
>
> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
> with this problem.
>
> thanks
>
> Keith Hedrick
> RV 6
> 3LF
>
>
>
>
>
>
You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air problems on my
RV-6
John
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD"
Oh great list,
I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
with this problem.
thanks
Keith Hedrick
RV 6
3LF
>
ttp://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>Oh great list,
>
>I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
>stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
>for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
>with this problem.
>
>thanks
>
>Keith Hedrick
Fuselage penetration=FENESTRATION. LOVE it!! Gotta remember that one.
Even if it is only a typo. :)
Stick boots. That's the answer. DJ makes 'em, or can modify aftermarket
shifter boots from Pep Boys and the like. Also, boots around the aileron
pushrods where they FENESTRATE the fuselage sides will keep the air from
getting into the cabin at all. I think Sam B. shows an install on his
website.
Good luck and get 'er done before wintertime!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net> |
There is a cloth boot that can be installed around the aileron push rod as
it comes into the cockpit on each side to keep the air out. I think I saw
them for sale at Cleveland or Becky Ormdorf.
Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602RV flying
----- Original Message -----
From: <jammeter(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: cold air
>
> You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air
> problems on my RV-6
>
> John
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>>
>> Oh great list,
>>
>> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
>> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration
>> and
>> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only
>> one
>> with this problem.
>>
>> thanks
>>
>> Keith Hedrick
>> RV 6
>> 3LF
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air problems
> on my RV-6
>
>
> John
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD"
>
>
> Oh great list,
>
> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
> with this problem.
>
> thanks
>
> Keith Hedrick
> RV 6
> 3LF
>
>
> >
> ttp://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
For Sale: One set of RV-6/6A plans with manuals
and some newsletters. Call Merrill Knouse,
319/732-2861
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Drawing OP11 and OP26 give Van's idea of adequate firewall penetration. Stainless
steel shields are considered optional. A grommet or snap bushing sealed over
with high temperature RTV appears to be the standard. Try an archive search
of the aeroelectric list for lots of ideas that are more sophisticated.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
I'm happy to say I worked with Abby Erdmann of Flightline Interiors to produce
correctly sized aileron boots using ripstock fabric for the RV-6 series. I believe
the going price is $19 per pair. Give her a call. I installed the boots
with 2 flywheel cutter produced retaining rings (one outside, one inside) that
capture the fabric and are held to the fuselage sides with screws and nutplates.
Overkill I know, but hey...its my airplane.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" N307R "finishing"
I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
with this problem.
thanks
Keith Hedrick
RV 6
3LF
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com> |
Fenestration means windows! From the French word for window fenetre.
Anyways, back to the problem at hand, boots around the aileron control rods
where they enter the fuselage will help a bunch. See Sam Buchannan's site
for the plans.... http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/cold.html
Mark Taylor
RV-7 QB
http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: RE: RV-List: cold air
>Oh great list,
>
>I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
>stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration and
>for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only one
>with this problem.
>
>thanks
>
>Keith Hedrick
Fuselage penetration=FENESTRATION. LOVE it!! Gotta remember that one.
Even if it is only a typo. :)
Stick boots. That's the answer. DJ makes 'em, or can modify aftermarket
shifter boots from Pep Boys and the like. Also, boots around the aileron
pushrods where they FENESTRATE the fuselage sides will keep the air from
getting into the cabin at all. I think Sam B. shows an install on his
website.
Good luck and get 'er done before wintertime!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Gert,
I used a product that is made by Moroso for race cars. So far so good. The
Jegs part number is
710-74145.
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=1631&prmenbr=361
Scott
RV6A
N162RV Flying
>From: Gert <gert(at)execpc.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com" , rv-list
>
>Subject: RV-List: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall??
>Date: Fri, 03 Sep 2004 16:38:18 -0500
>
>
>Hi folks
>
>For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment.
>How have you brought the wire from the battery to the starter contactor
>through the firewall??
>
>what kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention have you used.
>pro's/con's??
>
>thanks
>
>Gert
>--
>is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
>
>
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Gear leg question & Items of interest |
Hi great list people,
Is there a prize for longest lurker? I have read for years but never posted
anything until now. I haven't bothered to post since most topics have been
covered very well and a good archive search will find what you need.
Websites like Dan Checkoway and Sam Buchanan are awesome and provide
infinite knowledge. But I have one building question that has not been
covered.
A little background. My name is Kelly Patterson (that's a male name so no
one is confused). I've got a 6A in my garage. Emp was purchased from a
previous builder, did the slow build wings after buying them on EBay, and a
QB fuse is now nearly complete.
I need to drill the landing gear to the spars. With the QB fuse the bottom
skin is already in place. Has anyone done this before? What is the easy
way - inverted or greasy side down? Any tricks to make life easy? Any
special tools besides the angle drill? BTW - the gear legs are drilled so
that's a good thing!
This list is a great source of information as well as entertainment! For
many years I was a Miata owner which has gigantic email list traffic, 100+
per day. Maybe 50% actually discussed cars. The point is: the listers all
make a community. We are also a community. So what if we talk like drunks
about insurance, eyesight or life's problems. It's the common interest that
counts.
Last - I have an air cleco tool (Avery #20109) that I no longer have a need
for. Used on one set of wings and a fuse. I will ship it to you for $60.
Sell it here when you are done. Also have a battery box for a 6. Between
the pedals type. If yours is shot or you want a QB part come and get this.
I'll ship it for $30.
Thanks and I truly hope to meet many, or all of you, in the near future.
Kelly Patterson
RV-6A slow wing & QB fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
These firewall insulated through-bolt things require two more bolted connections
per cable run, which are a highly significant source of exra resistance in a
cranking current path carrying hundreds of amperes. You would probably get away
with it, but if your set-op suffers from poor cranking performance, it's the
first thing to suspect.
Not a flame, just orthodox doctrine from the 'Connection.
-Bill B
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire Sizing Chart |
Mark
Looks like you are using Bob's Chapter 8 "prior to 22 Apr 02". You might
want to take note of Bob's 28 Apr 2002 e-mail where he informs us of an
error in his Fig 8-4 that had gone undetected for many years - he said we
should label the "35 deg C rise" guideline as "10 deg C rise" and add a new
line for 35 deg C rise starting at 10 amps straight up from 22awg and
sloping parallel to the other 2 existing lines, which are to be re-labled 10
deg (was 35) and 3 deg (was 10). Attached Bob's e-mail in Cc direct to
mtaylo17(at)msn.com .
With this change, the max current for 22 awg goes up from 5 amps to 10 amps
for a 35 deg C rise, for example.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wire Sizing Chart
>
>
> Mike, try my website! http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/
>
> On the Electrical page, right at the top, is an excel sheet that I use. I
> based the calcs from the AeroElectric connection, so the "ampacity" should
> be just about right!
>
> Mark.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | how to feed the battery cable through the firewall |
>For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment:
how have you brought the cable from the battery to the starter through
the firewall? What kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention
have you used?
Well, it's been long enough ago that I can't remember what it is called
or the part number, but I found a firewall fitting at my local car
racing supply shop. It is a brass, insulated fitting that is a
through-bolt MADE to supply electrons from a heavy cable on one side,
through a firewall to a cable on the other side, as in battery to
starter cables. Works great without any problems associated with trying
to put a cable of that size through the firewall. If you need me to, I
could go back to the race shop some day and ask them but it is probably
on an online catalog of race equipment somewhere. There is a lot of cool
stuff at race shops that you can find a use for in an airplane. After
all, both go pretty fast and race cars are not built like "normal" cars,
i.e are experimental cars.......
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
This is an excellent example of the need for engineering compromise in the
real world.
The through bolt method has the advantage of an excellent and simple
firewall seal but (potentially) creates a problem in the cable run. The
single cable with grommet/shield method has an excellent current carrying
capability but creates another set of problems in arranging a fire proof,
chafe proof, firewall opening with (potentially) problems in the event of an
engine fire. Differences too in cost, ease of installation and maintenance.
Also, what is the more likely problem to arise and what are the consequences
of each problem?
As usual in homebuilt aircraft, you get to pay your money, make your own
choice and live with it.
Jim Oke
Wpg, MB
(Two time RV offender - now working on a hangar)
----- Original Message -----
From: <SportAV8R(at)aol.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall??
>
> These firewall insulated through-bolt things require two more bolted
connections per cable run, which are a highly significant source of exra
resistance in a cranking current path carrying hundreds of amperes. You
would probably get away with it, but if your set-op suffers from poor
cranking performance, it's the first thing to suspect.
>
> Not a flame, just orthodox doctrine from the 'Connection.
>
> -Bill B
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Hi Bill
No flame taken, I am pondering both sides of the equation. But if I run
the #2 through the firewall to the starter relay, I will have to
re-penetrate with a #6, or whatever size back to the fuseblock/circuit
breaker/distribution.
There are trade-off's to each solution. Would like, however, something
slightly more substantial than just a rubber grommet in a stainless
steel cover.
with my RV8 already 'suffering' from an extended cable run, extra
termination may not be desired.
On a similar note, for those of you having the battery in the back of
your RV8, what is a suitable place to run the ground wire to and did you
use a protective agent to prevent oxidation of the aluminum such as
No-Lox or so???
Thanks to all for great sugestions so far !!!
Gert
SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> These firewall insulated through-bolt things require two more bolted connections
per cable run, which are a highly significant source of exra resistance in
a cranking current path carrying hundreds of amperes. You would probably get
away with it, but if your set-op suffers from poor cranking performance, it's
the first thing to suspect.
>
> Not a flame, just orthodox doctrine from the 'Connection.
>
> -Bill B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: >Re:how to feed the battery cable through the fir |
Hi Bob
Building an 8, no cheeks (other than the ones in the cabin flying).
Gert
Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Gert;
> You didn't mention which Rv you are building.
> In our RV-4 I mounted the starter relay on the backside of the firewall and
> ran the cable through the left sidewall into the cowl cheek and on to the
> starter. I wanted to keep the relay in the cooler environment.
>
>
> Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
> A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
> Charleston,Arkansas
> Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall |
Thanks Michael
been toying with that idea too, living on top of Pegasus Racing Supplies...
Thanks
Gert
Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>
>>For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment:
>
> how have you brought the cable from the battery to the starter through
> the firewall? What kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention
> have you used?
>
> Well, it's been long enough ago that I can't remember what it is called
> or the part number, but I found a firewall fitting at my local car
> racing supply shop. It is a brass, insulated fitting that is a
> through-bolt MADE to supply electrons from a heavy cable on one side,
> through a firewall to a cable on the other side, as in battery to
> starter cables. Works great without any problems associated with trying
> to put a cable of that size through the firewall. If you need me to, I
> could go back to the race shop some day and ask them but it is probably
> on an online catalog of race equipment somewhere. There is a lot of cool
> stuff at race shops that you can find a use for in an airplane. After
> all, both go pretty fast and race cars are not built like "normal" cars,
> i.e are experimental cars.......
>
> Michael
> RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall |
Gert wrote:
>
> Thanks Michael
>
> been toying with that idea too, living on top of Pegasus Racing Supplies...
>
> Thanks
>
> Gert
>
> Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>>For those of you with the battery not in the engine compartment:
>>
>>how have you brought the cable from the battery to the starter through
>>the firewall? What kind of penetration/insulation/chafing prevention
>>have you used?
>>
>>Well, it's been long enough ago that I can't remember what it is called
>>or the part number, but I found a firewall fitting at my local car
>>racing supply shop.
During the course of my recent kit car build,
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/stalkerv6
I used some excellent hot rod supply sources that I wish I had known
about during the RV-6 project:
Jegs; http://www.jegs.com
Summit; http://www.jegs.com
Speedway; http://www.speedwaymotors.com
These outfits have a great supply of AN hoses and fittings, wiring
stuff, tools, etc, etc, etc....and offer prompt and reliable service.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 594 hrs)
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall |
Sam Buchanan wrote:
> During the course of my recent kit car build,
>
> http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/stalkerv6
>
> I used some excellent hot rod supply sources that I wish I had known
> about during the RV-6 project:
>
> Jegs; http://www.jegs.com
>
> Summit; http://www.jegs.com
Correction:
Summit; http://www.summitracing.com
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Making Intersection Fairings |
I recently viewed someone's web site which had pictures of lay-ups being
done for the upper gear leg intersection fairings. Don't recall the ship
model and I've lost the site link. The technique was interesting and seemed
to involve a built in split. Does anyone recognize this as being on their
site, if so, please provide me with the site link once again. Thanks Marty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
She also makes a nice set of stick boots in various colors. I have both
on my 6 and no cold air leaks.
Jeff Point
Rick Galati wrote:
>
>I'm happy to say I worked with Abby Erdmann of Flightline Interiors to produce
correctly sized aileron boots using ripstock fabric for the RV-6 series. I believe
the going price is $19 per pair. Give her a call. I installed the boots
with 2 flywheel cutter produced retaining rings (one outside, one inside) that
capture the fabric and are held to the fuselage sides with screws and nutplates.
Overkill I know, but hey...its my airplane.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Need help trimming out airplane |
vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
Okay, let's say I have this "friend" who has an RV-4 that he's been flying for
almost two years now. Let's say this "friend" is pulling his hair out because
I - uh, *he* cannot trim his plane out to straight and level flight without some
control input. With the wings held level by the stick in straight and level
flight the plane wants to go into a skidding left turn. To keep the plane
on a straight course the stick either has to be deflected to the right or right
rudder/left stick must be held. There is already a trim tab on the rudder.
Should I just keep enlarging it? Any other ideas?
Thanks.
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Gert,
Are you familiar with the stainless steel "towel bar" or "grab bar" solution explained
by Bob Nuckolls?
- There is no danger of melted plastic or rubber grommets or melted aluminum
fittings - everything you want goes thru the stainless steel tube whose flange
is mounted to the stainless steel firewall with fireproof putty and the front
end where wires come out into engine compartment is covered and tightly packed
with firesleeve material to keep fire out.
I've "selected all" and pasted below (after your original) the entire html article
Bob has posted on his site. If it doesn't show up with picture and all the
web details, go to Inbox-Outlook Express's tool bar, click Format & then Rich
Text (HTML) and reload the e-mail.
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall??
>
> Hi Bill
>
> No flame taken, I am pondering both sides of the equation. But if I run
> the #2 through the firewall to the starter relay, I will have to
> re-penetrate with a #6, or whatever size back to the fuseblock/circuit
> breaker/distribution.
>
> There are trade-off's to each solution. Would like, however, something
> slightly more substantial than just a rubber grommet in a stainless
> steel cover.
>
> with my RV8 already 'suffering' from an extended cable run, extra
> termination may not be desired.
>
> On a similar note, for those of you having the battery in the back of
> your RV8, what is a suitable place to run the ground wire to and did you
> use a protective agent to prevent oxidation of the aluminum such as
> No-Lox or so???
>
> Thanks to all for great sugestions so far !!!
>
>
> Gert
> SportAV8R(at)aol.com wrote:
Bob's Shop Notes:
Getting the wires in while keeping the flames out . . .
The "firewall" on an airplane wasn't named with any sense of whimsy . . . 99.99%
of the time, all it does is keep a blast of cold air out of the cockpit. But
on rare occasions, it is expected to stand between a fuel fed fire and folks
in the cockpit who are doing their best to survive the experience.
Hundreds of thousands of single engine aircraft have been built in the past 100
years. Most were fabricated with some attention paid to the physics of fire protection.
Every firewall-sheet of stainless steel (or composite material selected
for it's fire resistance) is perfectly capable of doing its job . . . as
long as you don't cut holes in it. Unfortunately, it's necessary for things forward
of the firewall to be in communication with things aft of the firewall.
There are controls, fuel plumbing, instrumentation and power generation wiring
that must run between engine compartment and cockpit thus requiring a certain
number of HOLES in the firewall.
Penetrations of fuel and other fluid plumbing running through all metal bulkhead
fittings require little further consideration. For certified airplanes, the
FARs tell us that bulkhead feed through fittings of steel or copper-alloy may
be used with no concerns for compromising firewall integrity. There are a variety
of metal "eyeball" fittings available for easing the transition of throttle,
prop, mixture and cowl flap controls at odd angles. This leaves us with the
"soft" lines such as wires and perhaps small fluid lines for pressure instrumentation.
Click here for larger image A visit with camera in hand to a production
line for certified piston aircraft allowed me to record and share a fabrication
technique for soft penetration. This technique has a long history of laboratory
testing for effectiveness, production line convenience, and field maintainability.
In this case, all of the wiring comes through a single, fairly large
penetration fitting . . . but there's no reason why multiple, smaller fittings
wouldn't work too . . .
Here we see how a stainless weldment bolted to the firewall with steel hardware
provides the structural component of a transition for wires and other relatively
"soft" materials running between cockpit and engine compartment. Note
generous flange area outside the tube to flange interface that is sealed with
fire-stop when the flange is bolted into place.
Click here for larger image The fittings for this airplane are made from
0.050" stainless. Thickness and attaching geometry are a function of how much
support the fitting needs to provide for the bundle of transitioning wires and
tubes. The material shown here is pretty hefty stuff and may have been selected
as handier to weld than thinner material. Drawings for other firewall fittings
used in this same factory show materials as thin as 0.020" thick.
Builders can certainly experiment with thinner material and alternative joining
techniques. Periodic inspections will show whether or not there are issues
of mechanical robustness . . . not strong enough, they'll simply come apart.
Given that fires are VERY rare, the failure of an experimental fitting doesn't
represent a great threat as long as you do reasonably complete inspections
during normal P/M activities . . . like every oil change. The worst thing that
happens is that you have to build a more robust transition fitting and replace
the broken one.
Click here for larger image Looking up the business end of the finished
transition. What's not visible in this view is the packing placed around wires
so that the second hose clamp doesn't have to put a super-crush on the fire
sleeve . . . . more on this later.
Click here for larger image The flight-ready firewall penetration. A second
hose clamp brings the fire sleeve down for a snug fit on the wire bundle. A
filler wrap around a wire bundle much smaller than the i.d. of the fire sleeve
makes for a better seal with less crush under the second hose clamp . . .
Click here for larger image On another airplane, we find a similar technique
except that the stainless steel firewall fitting is straight, no 90-degree
bend. Otherwise, installation and functionality is same as shown above.
Click here for larger image This view illustrates an interesting packing
material used to build up the wire bundle size. A piece of fire sleeve was cut
down the side and made into a strip of wrapping filler. Note that all exposed
edges of the fire sleeve are "doped" with the recommended sealer to preclude
entry of moisture and to keep the edges from fraying . . .
Questions or comments about this site? Click here to contact Bob at AeroElectric
Connection
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gert" <gert(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall??
>
> Hi Bill
>
> No flame taken, I am pondering both sides of the equation. But if I run
> the #2 through the firewall to the starter relay, I will have to
> re-penetrate with a #6, or whatever size back to the fuseblock/circuit
> breaker/distribution.
>
> There are trade-off's to each solution. Would like, however, something
> slightly more substantial than just a rubber grommet in a stainless
> steel cover.
>
> with my RV8 already 'suffering' from an extended cable run, extra
> termination may not be desired.
>
> On a similar note, for those of you having the battery in the back of
> your RV8, what is a suitable place to run the ground wire to and did you
> use a protective agent to prevent oxidation of the aluminum such as
> No-Lox or so???
>
> Thanks to all for great sugestions so far !!!
>
>
> Gert
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Cities Fly-in/camp-in picnic |
Listers:
One week until our Fall picnic, which will include camping for those
interested this year. Date is September 11, Saturday. For details see:
http://www.pressenter.com/~dougweil/mnwing/id18.htm
The location of this strip is approximately 40 miles NE of the
Minneapolis metro area, and it is on the Green Bay sectional as St.
Croix Valley. We will supply burgers/brats/refreshments. Bring a
potluck side, salad or dessert and a couple lawn chairs. Oh, and don't
forget to bring some tall flying tales also.
Hope to see you there!
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George P. Tyler" <gptyler(at)metrocast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help trimming out airplane |
Does "his 4", have aileron trim? Vans manual system is simple and may solve
the problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Need help trimming out airplane
>
> Okay, let's say I have this "friend" who has an RV-4 that he's been flying
for almost two years now. Let's say this "friend" is pulling his hair out
because I - uh, *he* cannot trim his plane out to straight and level flight
without some control input. With the wings held level by the stick in
straight and level flight the plane wants to go into a skidding left turn.
To keep the plane on a straight course the stick either has to be deflected
to the right or right rudder/left stick must be held. There is already a
trim tab on the rudder. Should I just keep enlarging it? Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Twin Cities Picnic/Fly-in/Camp-in |
Well, I gave you all the wrong website for the event, the website I gave
you earlier today is going to be shut down soon. Here is one that will
continue to work:
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~rvflyin/
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help trimming out airplane |
It was in there but came out so the stick boot could be installed. Maybe "he"
should put it back in.
"George P. Tyler"
Does "his 4", have aileron trim? Vans manual system is simple and may solve
the problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen"
Subject: RV-List: Need help trimming out airplane
>
> Okay, let's say I have this "friend" who has an RV-4 that he's been flying
for almost two years now. Let's say this "friend" is pulling his hair out
because I - uh, *he* cannot trim his plane out to straight and level flight
without some control input. With the wings held level by the stick in
straight and level flight the plane wants to go into a skidding left turn.
To keep the plane on a straight course the stick either has to be deflected
to the right or right rudder/left stick must be held. There is already a
trim tab on the rudder. Should I just keep enlarging it? Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help trimming out airplane |
It was in there but came out so the stick boot could be installed. Maybe "he"
should put it back in.
"George P. Tyler"
Does "his 4", have aileron trim? Vans manual system is simple and may solve
the problem.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Vanartsdalen"
Subject: RV-List: Need help trimming out airplane
>
> Okay, let's say I have this "friend" who has an RV-4 that he's been flying
for almost two years now. Let's say this "friend" is pulling his hair out
because I - uh, *he* cannot trim his plane out to straight and level flight
without some control input. With the wings held level by the stick in
straight and level flight the plane wants to go into a skidding left turn.
To keep the plane on a straight course the stick either has to be deflected
to the right or right rudder/left stick must be held. There is already a
trim tab on the rudder. Should I just keep enlarging it? Any other ideas?
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help trimming out airplane |
>
>Okay, let's say I have this "friend" who has an RV-4 that he's been
>flying for almost two years now. Let's say this "friend" is pulling
>his hair out because I - uh, *he* cannot trim his plane out to
>straight and level flight without some control input. With the
>wings held level by the stick in straight and level flight the plane
>wants to go into a skidding left turn. To keep the plane on a
>straight course the stick either has to be deflected to the right or
>right rudder/left stick must be held. There is already a trim tab
>on the rudder. Should I just keep enlarging it? Any other ideas?
>
I've never had to rig an RV yet, so the following advice is worth
what you paid for it.
If it was my plane, the first thing I would do is get the rudder tab
sorted out. You want the rudder tab rigged so that at your normal
cruise condition, with aileron input to hold the wings absolutely
level, the heading doesn't change with your feet off the rudder. If
your ball is perfectly installed (i.e. the instrument isn't tilted to
one side a bit), then the ball will be centred.
Next, worry about the aileron trim. Take a very close look at the
flap angle to be sure they are the same. Look at the ailerons - are
the aileron hinge brackets drilled so the ailerons are positioned
exactly the same vertically? If not, this would cause an out of trim
condition. Order new brackets are redrill as required. Once you are
sure the ailerons are positioned the same vertically, you can think
about the aileron trailing edge radii. Look at the heavy wing - is
the aileron trailing edge too sharp? If so, take a block of wood and
hold it against the trailing edge and tap it a bit to enlarge the
radius. If the heavy aileron looks OK, then you'll need to gently
squeeze the trailing edge of the aileron on the light wing. A little
bit goes a long way, so be careful here.
Van has published some info on correcting wing heaviness in the
Construction FAQs that has more items to look at:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/Wing_Heavy.pdf
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hedrick OD" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net> |
That is a big help. thanks. thos e look good. It will be good to be
warm in the cold.
Keith
=============
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com>
>
> Fenestration means windows! From the French word for window fenetre.
>
> Anyways, back to the problem at hand, boots around the aileron control
rods
> where they enter the fuselage will help a bunch. See Sam Buchannan's site
> for the plans.... http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/cold.html
>
> Mark Taylor
> RV-7 QB
> http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/
>
>
> From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: cold air
>
>
> >Oh great list,
> >
> >I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
> >stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration
and
> >for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only
one
> >with this problem.
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >Keith Hedrick
>
>
> Fuselage penetration=FENESTRATION. LOVE it!! Gotta remember that one.
> Even if it is only a typo. :)
>
> Stick boots. That's the answer. DJ makes 'em, or can modify aftermarket
> shifter boots from Pep Boys and the like. Also, boots around the aileron
> pushrods where they FENESTRATE the fuselage sides will keep the air from
> getting into the cabin at all. I think Sam B. shows an install on his
> website.
>
> Good luck and get 'er done before wintertime!
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hedrick OD" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net> |
i have an email into to Abby. thanks again.
kt
==========
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: cold air
>
> I'm happy to say I worked with Abby Erdmann of Flightline Interiors to
produce correctly sized aileron boots using ripstock fabric for the RV-6
series. I believe the going price is $19 per pair. Give her a call. I
installed the boots with 2 flywheel cutter produced retaining rings (one
outside, one inside) that capture the fabric and are held to the fuselage
sides with screws and nutplates. Overkill I know, but hey...its my
airplane.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" N307R "finishing"
>
>
> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around the
> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration
and
> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only
one
> with this problem.
>
> thanks
>
> Keith Hedrick
> RV 6
> 3LF
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RV6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Sept 11, 2004 -RV Forum, 10th Annual Oswego County NY, KFZY |
It is getting closer.......hope to see you there!!!
You're scaring me....not much "Lister" chatter about this, not like past
years.
September 10, 2004 Friday night fly in, cook out and camp out. The EAA 486
General meeting is that night too.
September 11, 2004 Saturday more fly ins, + technical seminars all day,
meals provided to paid attendee's. Due to insurance all I can say is you tap a
pilot for a ride...there are many who are generous there. Then a nice dinner
banquet with a presentation for an evening wrap up!
September 12, 2004 Sunday AM our great pancake breakfast and perhaps a
coordinated fly out for lunch, planes, weather and pilots willing.
See us at _www.eaachapter486.com_ (http://www.eaachapter486.com/) See the RV
forum website for registration information.
RV pilots get it all for one dollar.
VFR years have seen over 56 RV's and 25 SPAM's fly in with over 150
attendee's.
Again Mike Seager and the new factory RV7 will be doing instruction and
manufacturers like Lycoming and many others have attended, and/or they do send
goodies.
I could go on...but you get the picture...just ask someone who has been
there the $45 is easily worth it. Hope to See you all there.
Respectfully,
David McManmon
Past-President
EAA 486
RV6 Flying, Builder, Pilot N58DM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Gert,
This site hs a kit that basically does the sane thing as the towel bar mentioned
.
However , I would elect to pass the wires through the SS tube rather than all fire
sleeve.
http://www.epm-avcorp.com
>
> Gert,
>
> Are you familiar with the stainless steel "towel bar" or "grab bar"
> solution explained by Bob Nuckolls?
> - There is no danger of melted plastic or rubber grommets or
> melted aluminum fittings - everything you want goes thru the
> stainless steel tube whose flange is mounted to the stainless
> steel firewall with fireproof putty and the front end where wires
> come out into engine compartment is covered and tightly packed
> with firesleeve material to keep fire out.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gert <gert(at)execpc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: how to feed the battery cable through the firewall?? |
Yeah, they have great looking stuff but, hey, 60 to 80 bucks (incl.
shipping) for a few inches of firesleeve, 2 stainless hose clamps, an
inch stainless 1/2" thinwall pipe with a flange is just a tad steep at
the moment.
Gert
plaurence@the-beach.net wrote:
>
> Gert,
>
> This site hs a kit that basically does the sane thing as the towel bar mentioned
.
> However , I would elect to pass the wires through the SS tube rather than all
fire
> sleeve.
>
> http://www.epm-avcorp.com
>
>
>
>>Gert,
>>
>>Are you familiar with the stainless steel "towel bar" or "grab bar"
>>solution explained by Bob Nuckolls?
>> - There is no danger of melted plastic or rubber grommets or
>> melted aluminum fittings - everything you want goes thru the
>> stainless steel tube whose flange is mounted to the stainless
>> steel firewall with fireproof putty and the front end where wires
>> come out into engine compartment is covered and tightly packed
>> with firesleeve material to keep fire out.
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | New product announcement: affordable VG's |
piper-list(at)matronics.com, pitts-list(at)matronics.com,
rocket-list(at)matronics.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com, rv3-list(at)matronics.com,
rv4-list(at)matronics.com, rv6-list(at)matronics.com,
rv7-list(at)matronics.com.1.00.SORTED_RECIPS.Recipient.list.is.sorted.by.address
Hey folks,
I double checked and Matt Dralle's earlier post says it's OK to post about new
aviation products as long as the message doesn't come off as having a "flavor"
of "traditional spam". Don't worry I'm not going to try to sell you anything
that supposedly makes any of your body parts larger (or smaller) and this product
is directly aviation related :) I'm just an airplane builder, owner, pilot,
and aviation nut who wants to tell you where you can find more information about
a great new product.
I've been selling kits of vortex generators (VG's) for only $95 and my customers are telling me they really like the performance gains they're seeing. VG's are great for reducing stall speeds and allow you to land slower, shorter, and safer. I invite you to check out my site at www.landshorter.com and see what you think. My VG's can be quickly installed for testing using removable double-stick tape and come with a 100% money-back guarantee so why not try them out on your plane? You'll be really glad you did :)
Thanks and let's keep 'em flying!
Joa Harrison
The VG Guy
www.landshorter.com
1-877-272-1414 (toll free)
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Keith Hedrick OD" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cold Air Summary |
thanks to all who responded. Sam B has pics and the story on his web site,
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/cold.html
and Rick sent me pics of his boots.
several mentioned :
===========
Flightline Interiors sells some nice boots for the
fuselage to aileron push rod seal.
http://home.comcast.net/~jenbrook
--------------------
also Cleveland or Becky Ormdorf may also have boots. I will check those
sites later.
thanks again for all the help.
Keith
RV 6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Lasar CHT question |
I'm in the process of hooking up the (Lycoming) factory installed Lasar system
and Service Letter SL1-96 indicates that is important to identify the "cylinder
that operates at the highest temperature during full power, maximum rate of
climb configuration". Which cylinder would this normally be in an O-320-DIA
installed in an RV-6 airframe?
Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lasar CHT question |
Typically #3 - the aft cylinder on the right side of the aircraft.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Lasar CHT question
>
> I'm in the process of hooking up the (Lycoming) factory installed Lasar
system and Service Letter SL1-96 indicates that is important to identify
the "cylinder that operates at the highest temperature during full power,
maximum rate of climb configuration". Which cylinder would this normally be
in an O-320-DIA installed in an RV-6 airframe?
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Windscreen Cleaner |
I found a great windscreen cleaner, and it is much less expensive than
others I've found. See:
http://www.wellworthproducts.com/products/cleaners.html
It is the product in the middle of the page called Plexall. I bought a
12 can case for about $38 with shipping. It is inexpensive enough to
use for the whole plane if one desires. I ordered mine from a real
friendly person in their customer service.
I've got no association with the company.
Alex Peterson
Maple Grove, MN
RV6-A N66AP 520 hours
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
List:
I have been through the archives on smoke systems and have seen some messages
regarding the "negatives" of a smoke system. Mostly concerned about belly
mess, etc.
One post said aerobatic people hate them ... always problems.
I am seriously considering installing one .... but I do not want persistent
problems ???
Comments ??? Especially from people who have them on !!
Len Leggette, RV-8A
Greensboro, NC N910LL
272 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
>List:
>
>I have been through the archives on smoke systems and have seen some
>messages
>regarding the "negatives" of a smoke system. Mostly concerned about belly
>mess, etc.
>
>One post said aerobatic people hate them ... always problems.
>
>I am seriously considering installing one .... but I do not want persistent
>problems ???
>
>Comments ??? Especially from people who have them on !!
>
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, NC N910LL
>272 hrs
Len,
I think Mike Stewart has a setup on the Team RV website...or
somewhere...just can't think of the actual site. The oil is messy, smelly
stuff. I used to have smokers in my giant scale RC aerobatic models. Added
weight and more time to the cleanup efforts at the end of the day. It did
add a LOT of flair to the freestyle maneuvers, that's for sure!
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re: Smoke Systems |
You can go to: > http://www.smokingairplanes.com/ < to ;ook at the
systems they have.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Smoke Systems |
Lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>List:
>
>I have been through the archives on smoke systems and have seen some messages
>regarding the "negatives" of a smoke system. Mostly concerned about belly
>mess, etc.
>
>One post said aerobatic people hate them ... always problems.
>
>I am seriously considering installing one .... but I do not want persistent
>problems ???
>
>Comments ??? Especially from people who have them on !!
>
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, NC N910LL
>272 hrs
>
>
>
>
Try this
www.smokingairplanes.com
I saw him fly at Van's this morning and it looked great
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
I have this system in my RV6 and love it!! I always have some oil in the
tank so I can leave a little "puff" when I want. It's an EASY system to
install, works well and isn't "that" messy unless you use some really crappy
type of oil that doesn't easily burn. If you're carefull, you can have lots
of fun and a clean plane.
Cheers,
Stein
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry Springer
Subject: Re: RV-List: Smoke Systems
Lenleg(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>List:
>
>I have been through the archives on smoke systems and have seen some
messages
>regarding the "negatives" of a smoke system. Mostly concerned about belly
>mess, etc.
>
>One post said aerobatic people hate them ... always problems.
>
>I am seriously considering installing one .... but I do not want persistent
>problems ???
>
>Comments ??? Especially from people who have them on !!
>
>Len Leggette, RV-8A
>Greensboro, NC N910LL
>272 hrs
>
>
Try this
www.smokingairplanes.com
I saw him fly at Van's this morning and it looked great
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Stainless 3" tape |
Try mcmaster-carr.com. Search for P/N 76055A23 for a 3 yd. roll or P/N
76055A673 for a 16 yd. roll.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final details
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Stainless 3" tape |
John McMahon wrote:
>
>Is there a Web address that I might have seen that sells 3" wide tape??
>
>
>
http://www.mcmaster.com/
catalog Page 3201
Part Number 76055A23 fir 3" by 3 yards
They sale tons of stuff. Kind of like the biggest hardware store you
have ever seen times 100. Plus some stuff you won't find in any
hardware store.
--
Chris W
Bring Back the HP 15C
http://hp15c.org
Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tracy Saylor E-Mail Address |
Can someone provide me Tracy Saylor's current e-mail address? The one in the yeller
pages comes back undeliverable. I need a replacement lens for the wing
tip light kit I purchased from him.
Thanks
Rick McBride
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Tracy Saylor E-Mail Address |
I think you'll have to use snail mail with Tracy. He gave up on computers
several years back. Did you try the phone number?
Maybe someone can kick out his address. I believe it's his daughter and son
in law who are doing his products now.
Ed Holyoke
----- Original Message -----
From: <RICKRV6(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Tracy Saylor E-Mail Address
>
> Can someone provide me Tracy Saylor's current e-mail address? The one in
the yeller pages comes back undeliverable. I need a replacement lens for
the wing tip light kit I purchased from him.
>
> Thanks
> Rick McBride
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Vortex Generators |
Hi Joa...
Your product looks intriguing and the price seems right for sure. It would
be good if we had some reliable test data from an RV. Any installed so far?
Thanx
Jerry Cochran
Hey folks,
I double checked and Matt Dralle's earlier post says it's OK to post about
new
aviation products as long as the message doesn't come off as having a
"flavor"
of "traditional spam". Don't worry I'm not going to try to sell you anything
that supposedly makes any of your body parts larger (or smaller) and this
product
is directly aviation related :) I'm just an airplane builder, owner, pilot,
and aviation nut who wants to tell you where you can find more information
about
a great new product.
I've been selling kits of vortex generators (VG's) for only $95 and my
customers are telling me they really like the performance gains they're seeing.
VG's are great for reducing stall speeds and allow you to land slower, shorter,
and safer. I invite you to check out my site at www.landshorter.com and see
what you think. My VG's can be quickly installed for testing using removable
double-stick tape and come with a 100% money-back guarantee so why not try
them out on your plane? You'll be really glad you did :)
Thanks and let's keep 'em flying!
Joa Harrison
The VG Guy
www.landshorter.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Draper <mdraper(at)nww.com> |
| Subject: | K1100-06 nutplate installation on e-616 |
I am currently finishing up my elevator and am at the point on installing
the trim tab reinforcement plate and correcsponding platenuts.
I searched the archives and got some good tips on using oops rivets to
install the platenuts.
My question. Once the platenut is installed, do you countersink the
reinforcement plate to accept the dimple from the cover plate?
The only other option would be to dimple the reinforcement plate and
countersink the screw hole inthe nutplate.
Which would be the best approach? Does it matter?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Well I'll chime in here... I bought some VG's from Greg H. (the Larry Vetterman
brand, 1999 model, RV-4, ones). The adhesive had gone south, so I epoxyed them
on. The results I'm listing at this moment are from memory and are in MPH
not Nuts (knots). I have an RV-4 IO-320 inverted fuel & oil, 160 hp, fixed
pitch prop (I bought from Rob R., waiting for my new prop to get final finishing
done) with 80% span ailerons and 18 inches of "Airbrakes" on each wing (aerobatic
reasons, or so I like to think) and no wheel pants or gear leg fairings
on. Testing was done at 3500' on two 85 degree (zip for humidity) mornings
each time. Turning stall testing not completed yet; but roll authority has a
noticable improvement/responsiveness.
*Prior to installation: >Power-off Clean stall - 54/55 >Power-on (2300 rpm)
Clean stall - 50/50 >Power-off Airbrakes - 53/53 >Power-on Airbrakes - 51/50
*After installation: >Power-off Clean stall - 49/49 >Power-on (2300 rpm) Clean
stall - 43/44 >Power-off Airbrakes - 49/49 >Power-on Airbrakes - 43/43
***note the Power-on Airbrakes stall "Helicoptering" at 43 mph ? Just kinda hanging
there on the prop.
My opinion so far, with no side-by-side RV-4 testing yet (maybe if/when Scott V.
comes by again), ...but I wouldn't spend the money again, HOWEVER... I
ain't gonna take them off now neither!
Chuck
Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
Hi Joa...
Your product looks intriguing and the price seems right for sure. It would
be good if we had some reliable test data from an RV. Any installed so far?
Thanx
Jerry Cochran
Hey folks,
I double checked and Matt Dralle's earlier post says it's OK to post about
new
aviation products as long as the message doesn't come off as having a
"flavor"
of "traditional spam". Don't worry I'm not going to try to sell you anything
that supposedly makes any of your body parts larger (or smaller) and this
product
is directly aviation related :) I'm just an airplane builder, owner, pilot,
and aviation nut who wants to tell you where you can find more information
about
a great new product.
I've been selling kits of vortex generators (VG's) for only $95 and my
customers are telling me they really like the performance gains they're seeing.
VG's are great for reducing stall speeds and allow you to land slower, shorter,
and safer. I invite you to check out my site at www.landshorter.com and see
what you think. My VG's can be quickly installed for testing using removable
double-stick tape and come with a 100% money-back guarantee so why not try
them out on your plane? You'll be really glad you did :)
Thanks and let's keep 'em flying!
Joa Harrison
The VG Guy
www.landshorter.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
Well,
it may seem obscure to fly from San Diego to Aurora for a few hours and a
new VAF tee shirt, but with the RVs and a couple of really nice days it was
worth it. For those of you who live out in the flat lands, the bumps out
west are really a lot of fun on a pretty white and blue day.
Day one after work was from San Diego to Agua Dulce for their Friday night
steak dinner, burp, then on to Columbia Airport for a early night quick
camp. The next morning I popped from there to Aurora direct, hung out for
half the day then decided the clouds looked like they wouldn't be fun to
camp under over at Vernonia, so headed back south to Shellville in the Bay
Area to visit some friends. Had a great time there, met some folks who are
major old timers in aviation. This airport is where the OSH show stopper
Curtiss Jenny lives.
From there I followed the coast back down to Santa Paula, then over to Auga
Dulce for a soda and more low cost fuel, and then on home. For those of you
in the SoCal area this airport has recently come under citizen attack, and
they are looking for a few good signatures. So stop on in every chance you
get.
I don't have much to report on the home coming event other than there were a
lot of aircraft showing up as I was leaving. I got a few pics and will try
to post them via Matt's photoshare as soon as I catch up on a few other
projects.
W
PS Hi Mikey, how's the flying out there in the middle these days?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon D-10 errors |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
I want to thank those who have inquired as to the errors I have been
getting on the Dynon based on some Findings From Dan Checkoway's post on
his website here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20040901.html Dan has done an excellent good
job summarizing the issue there. I suggest you read that first.
To summarize, myself and others, have been getting errors on the horizon
function of the Dynon EFIS. In one case it really scared me and as a
result I have grounded me 6A from any IFR work. Most of the errors are a
lean in the roll axis by as much as 7-10 degrees. Pitch errors in my
case have been as much as 20 degrees. Here is a brief synopsis of what
and how it is happening based on some e-mail to Dynon:
I flew 6 hours today and worked the Dynon hard. I can now easily
reproduce the lean.
I started after departure at 2500rm and went to 1900rmp 10rpm at a time
with 1 minute intervals, and back to 2700rpm
At 2560, the leaning happens, it slowly oscillates from right to left,
and back again. I can come off it by 15rmp on either side and it resumes
accurate operation.
I can give you further details but I now can quickly reproduce it, and I
took some shots of how bad it is out on the lean. You will notice that
on one shot, the bank indicator on the right shows wings completely
level, autopilot on, and it was silky smooth air.
Also I have seen it at other RPMs today. I saw it in formation at 2480
but could not troubleshoot as we were practicing.
I was able to see the pitch out during this activity, but not by much. 2
degrees maybe, but it was out and I could watch it happen with the
leaning at the same rpm, although the pitch was not as reproducible as
the roll problem.
took off from home base, early turn out, climb in smooth morning air to
3500'agl level off and the d10 compass heading was swinging a d10 being
erratic on the screen. That caught my eye. At the same time, d10 showed
me in a 20 degree climb and I was level. In about 6 seconds the compass
stabilized, and in about 20 seconds the pitch stabilized to level.
Next on a different day, I saw another example of the leans in roll
information by about 4 degrees. A very pronounced lean showing a right
hand turn 4 degrees or so, autopilot flying the plane straight and
level, compass on the d10 holding steady. It would eventually, after 1
minute or so get level, then lean again. This went on for about 6
minutes. Then fine. I have seen this behavior in the unit a dozen times
over the 700 hours of flight with it.
In another case, the one that really scared me, I came out of 15,000' on
a long hard decent to 1000'AGL and leveled off in MVFR vis 2, mist, and
the dynon showed I was in a steady climb of 20 degrees. I was clearly
level cross checking other instruments and was low. After a min or so it
cleared up and resumed normal operation. This is the largest deviation
in pitch I have seen. I took a big deep breath and thanked god I was not
IMC. If I were, I may not have caught the pitch error and might have put
the nose into the ground. Needless to say, no more IFR till it is
resolved.
So the above e-mail excerpts will give you and idea of the issue. Like
Dan stated on his webpage, I have been in contact with Dynon and they
are taking this very seriously. I have been impressed with their
responsiveness and professionalism. Clearly this is serious and Dynon
says "this is the most important item on their plate." Now, we have not
found a fix yet. I seem to be the only guy who can easily reproduce the
problem, but I would bet, as I did with the EMI item, that this is a
fleet wide problem. Dynon says I have the most hours on their unit in
the field. Perhaps that explains some of why I have been able to get to
a reproducible stage. They are working hard and I am confident they will
get to the bottom of it. They have offered to refund my money. I haven't
taken it yet as I want to help them work out the problem. This is a
terrific unit and I am confident they will nail it down. Until then,
remember this is an experimental device and should be treated as such.
If you have one of these in your plane, keep this in mind as you fly.
Picture of a lean here: Notice bottom right Trio Autopilot shows wings
level, as they were.
http://www.mstewart.net/deletesoon/dynonlean.jpg
Regards,
Mike Stewart
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D-10 errors |
Mike,
I have occasionally seen the roll error from the get go on my D-10.
I never dreamed it was RPM related.
Mine has been really good lately and I was not so concerned about it any
more, but now it all makes sense. The only times I have problems lately is
early in the flight (read climb power) I used to run higher RPMs and I had
more problems. I have been using 2300 much more than 2400 or 2500
I would go test this right now, except, I was showing my Dynon to a vistor
and I did not get it shut down, it ran the Battery down on the airplane and
When I charged the battery back up, it would not fire up so mine is back at
the factory getting looked at.
I have NEVER had a pitch problem with mine, just the ~ 5 deg roll issue you
describe.
I have a very early D-10 and I have about 235 hours on flight time with it.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Need help trimming out airplane |
Scott Vanartsdalen wrote:
>
>Okay, let's say I have this "friend" who has an RV-4 that he's been flying for
almost two years now. Let's say this "friend" is pulling his hair out because
I - uh, *he* cannot trim his plane out to straight and level flight without
some control input. With the wings held level by the stick in straight and level
flight the plane wants to go into a skidding left turn. To keep the plane
on a straight course the stick either has to be deflected to the right or right
rudder/left stick must be held. There is already a trim tab on the rudder.
Should I just keep enlarging it?
>
Nah, big tabs are draggy and look bad (IMHO)
> Any other ideas?
>
Well, yes. I'm not familiar with the RV rudder setup so I'll offer some
things: If you don't have rudder springs between the pedals and the
firewall (springs to put tension on the cables) then this addition would
be a start. What you can do (if you have the springs) is to
twist/untwist the cables to change their effective length, which will
set the position of the rudder to one side (to counteract a skidding
tendency). I do not like trim tabs ..... so I spend a lot of time on
rigging and tweaking stuff instead of bending tabs that add drag. Good
luck!
Linn ....... someday my -10 will come
>
>Thanks.
>
>
>--
>Scott VanArtsdalen
>RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
>
> When a man does all he can
> though it succeeds not well,
> blame not him that did it."
> -- George Washington
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
Hi Joa...
Your product looks intriguing and the price seems right for sure. It would
be good if we had some reliable test data from an RV. Any installed so far?
Thanx
Jerry Cochran
<<
I'll second that. I'm interested, but want to hear an RV testimonial even at that
price :-)
-BB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Nose wheel tire mounting |
I just mounted the tube & tire on the nose wheel of my RV-6A for the
first time. After reading all the emails, it was easier than I expected
and turned out very well. Maybe I was just lucky, but here's what I did:
1- I used a lot of talcum powder on everything including the the wheel
rim and tire bead. I put one wheel half on the tire (with the deflated
tube) and used a wooden slat and a plastic mallet to push/pound the bead
further onto the wheel. It helps to have two people to hold all this
down while wacking it. The second wheel half is not in place yet so you
can easily reach the bead from the inside of the tire.
2- With the tire bead most of the way onto the first wheel half, it was
easy to get the second one close enough get the nuts started on the
bolts. Just screw them on part way, though. The two wheel halves are
now separated by a gap of about a 1/16". You can see the gap all the
way around using a dental mirror in the center of the wheel. Look into
it past a trouble light held against your face. A flashlight might work
too. You can see if the tube is in between the two wheel halves at any
point. In my case it appeared to be pinched at one place.
3- Next, I put about 5-10 pounds of air in the tube. My theory was this
partial inflation makes it harder for the tube to get caught in the gap
between the two wheel halves. It "rounds out" the tube and that makes
it harder to pinch. At least visual inspection indicated it was not
caught in the gap after I did this.
4- Tighten down the bolts by turning each nut 1 turn in succession.
5- Inflate the tube and deflate it several times just as they say in the
manual. Since there's no weight on the tire, I think it can be over
inflated safely to the 50 - 55 pound area, which is what I did. This
made the tire beads slide nicely out to the rims of the wheel. It
appears to be mounted perfectly.
Maybe I just had a fortuitous fit here, but I think it was the talc on
the wheel and the tire bead that made it slide into place.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Landing gear
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil Henderson" <neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com> |
Listers
About a year ago there was a thread discussing brake fluids and the use of automatic
transmission oil as being a suitable substitution. I've searched the archives
but can't find the references. There a couple of types of transmission oil
available, does anyone know what grade to use or are either suitable.
Neil Henderson RV9A 98% finished 10% to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D-10 errors |
Mike,
With about 90 hours on my D-10, I have also seen the roll error you
described on occasion. I limit my flying to VFR for now. If I ever get
my prop back I'll do some testing and see if it is RPM related.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Solid State gyro Dynon D-10 errors |
If the Dynon uses "solid state" gyros as part of their stabilization
mechanism then I can see the possibility that the problem could be RPM
related. Unlike the spinning mass gyro the solid state gyro rely on a
vibrating electric element to establish a spatial reference plane. IF the
frequency of the engine (or a harmonic of the basic engine frequency)
happens to fall within the proper range then it could be influencing the
vibrating element and confusing the processing of the signal from the that
element. If that is the case, then perhaps better physical isolation might
cure the problem.
Any correlation between engine type such as the larger 360 causing more of
a problem than say the 320??
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10 errors
>
> Mike,
>
> With about 90 hours on my D-10, I have also seen the roll error you
> described on occasion. I limit my flying to VFR for now. If I ever get
> my prop back I'll do some testing and see if it is RPM related.
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6
> Milwaukee WI
>
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Land Shorter <landshorter2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
I'm with you guys on seeing some numbers. I'm working on it, believe me :) I'm
a mechanical engineer so I like data as much as anyone.
I intend to borrow a boom from my boss and get some good data on the effect at
the bottom end as well as at cruise. It just takes time, especially when *everyone*
wants data on their plane :) Though of course the RV market is huge so
I obviously will be focusing on getting you guys some numbers.
Joa
www.landshorter.com
++++++++++++++++++++++
Your product looks intriguing and the price seems right for sure. It
would
be good if we had some reliable test data from an RV. Any installed so
far?
Thanx
Jerry Cochran
<<
I'll second that. I'm interested, but want to hear an RV testimonial
even at that
price :-)
-BB
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyro Dynon D-10 errors |
on zoot.lafn.org
With this in mind, I would try taking the alternator off-line and see if
the problem still exists, since charging system noise might also be
affecting it.
Dave -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>If the Dynon uses "solid state" gyros as part of their stabilization
>mechanism then I can see the possibility that the problem could be RPM
>related. Unlike the spinning mass gyro the solid state gyro rely on a
>vibrating electric element to establish a spatial reference plane. IF the
>frequency of the engine (or a harmonic of the basic engine frequency)
>happens to fall within the proper range then it could be influencing the
>vibrating element and confusing the processing of the signal from the that
>element. If that is the case, then perhaps better physical isolation might
>cure the problem.
>
> Any correlation between engine type such as the larger 360 causing more of
>a problem than say the 320??
>
>Ed
>
>Ed Anderson
>RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10 errors
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Solid State gyro Dynon D-10 errors |
Please tell me this has been fixed with the new model; I was already planning a
new panel around the Dynon now that my old electric horizon is getting a bit
wobbly from all the barrel rolls... Len, any "leans" in your Dynon installation?
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Roger Embree <j.embree(at)sympatico.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Vortex Generators |
For the newbies, have a look at Terry Jantzi's site for VGs supplied by
Larry Vetterman.
http://www.ontariorvators.org/pitot/pitot.htm
Roger Embree
RV-4 Alliston Ontario
Land Shorter wrote:
>
>
>I'm with you guys on seeing some numbers. I'm working on it, believe me :) I'm
a mechanical engineer so I like data as much as anyone.
>
>I intend to borrow a boom from my boss and get some good data on the effect at
the bottom end as well as at cruise. It just takes time, especially when *everyone*
wants data on their plane :) Though of course the RV market is huge
so I obviously will be focusing on getting you guys some numbers.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
The RV-ator from a couple of issues ago also has a nice article on making
these boots. It was very easy and done quite quickly.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Harvey Sigmon" <rv6hes(at)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: cold air
>Date: Sat, 4 Sep 2004 00:10:58 -0400
>
>
>There is a cloth boot that can be installed around the aileron push rod as
>it comes into the cockpit on each side to keep the air out. I think I
>saw
>them for sale at Cleveland or Becky Ormdorf.
>Harvey Sigmon RV-6A N602RV flying
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <jammeter(at)comcast.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: cold air
>
>
> >
> > You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air
> > problems on my RV-6
> >
> > John
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >>
> >> Oh great list,
> >>
> >> I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around
>the
> >> stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration
> >> and
> >> for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only
> >> one
> >> with this problem.
> >>
> >> thanks
> >>
> >> Keith Hedrick
> >> RV 6
> >> 3LF
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > You DO have a boot on the stick? That stopped all of the cold air
>problems
> > on my RV-6
> >
> >
> > John
> >
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: "Keith Hedrick OD"
> >
> >
> > Oh great list,
> >
> > I would like to stop (or slow down) the cold air that comes up around
>the
> > stick. Is there a kit made to install around the fuselage fenestration
>and
> > for the stick housing to do this ?? If not, any ideas or am I the only
>one
> > with this problem.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Keith Hedrick
> > RV 6
> > 3LF
> >
> >
> > >
> > ttp://www.matronics.com/trouble-report
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Just curious, why would you want to use automatic transmission fluid in place
of the recommended MIL-H-5606G brake fluid?
Cash Copeland A&P
RV-6 Hayward, Ca
In a message dated 9/7/2004 1:16:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com writes:
Listers
About a year ago there was a thread discussing brake fluids and the use of
automatic transmission oil as being a suitable substitution. I've searched the
archives but can't find the references. There a couple of types of transmission
oil available, does anyone know what grade to use or are either suitable.
Neil Henderson RV9A 98% finished 10% to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D-10 errors |
Mike,
It is not clear from your description if the pitch error was a single event or
an oscillation. A couple months back I was doing some hood time with a CFI in
the back seat of my -8. After leveling off after a long descent (If I remember
it was from 8500 down to 2500) My Dynon started pitching up and down. It
didn't just pitch up 20 deg and stay there. It was about 20 deg each way. Since
the airspeed and alt were stable I just watched it, it was a little unnerving.
It damped out after about 5 cycles. At the time Dynon said they had seen
an issue in roll at about 1900 rpm that they could duplicate but had not seen
or been told of other pitch issues. I tried to duplicate the issue but to date
I have not been able to. Doug at Dynon was very interested and wanted any
info on being able to recreate it.
Alan Kritzman
To summarize, myself and others, have been getting errors on the horizon
function of the Dynon EFIS. In one case it really scared me and as a
result I have grounded me 6A from any IFR work. Most of the errors are a
lean in the roll axis by as much as 7-10 degrees. Pitch errors in my
case have been as much as 20 degrees. Here is a brief synopsis of what
and how it is happening based on some e-mail to Dynon:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
"'owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com '"(at)matronics.com
MS,
thanks for the report, I haven't had most of those issues, but I haven't
necessarily done those manuvers with the intent of diagnosing a problem.
I'll print this and go check mine. That said I'm up in the 400-500 hour
range of operation and so far the only real error is the pitch lag during
rapid changes in velocity like a loop or a set of knife edge dutch type
rolls.
There was a period where I was getting some slight lean for awhile but that
seems to have cleared up.
RPM issue, mostly I keep things at 2200-2400 so I may not be in the range
you are seeing this. I have the FP Sensenich though so RPM issues may act
differently from a CS prop. The question I am asking myself is what effects
on forces and attitude does RPM have. So far the only thing that comes to
mind is yaw and panel vibration.
The other question that comes up is why is there different behaviour between
units. Is it the unit's or the airplane, or the installation. One line of
thought would be to put your unit in a different airplane and see if it
behaves the same, then try a different unit in your plane, then try it in
your plane but installed differently, say velcroed somewhere. Also would be
interesting to see if it is different with connector disconnected operating
on battery power. Not sure about this last one, but RF and spikes do strange
things.
I'll let you know my results as soon as work/life lets me go fly some more.
I did play with it some going to Vans as per Dynon's request but saw no
errors. Your data gives me some more specifics to try.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon D-10 errors |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
That was a single event of that degree. It was not oscillating at all so
It did not clearly identify that it was malfunctioning. It just showed a
20deg climb and stayed there. I did not follow it at the time cause I
was heading into my home base spec. vfr and was busy.
I have had say, a dozen times where the pitch was off by about oh 5
degrees. Never oscillating like the roll has done. And even in the roll
oscillation, the oscillations are smooth and slow, say 15 seconds
between 7degrees right to 7 degrees left.
Now I had one time a month ago when it was erratic, where it was
responding hyper sensitively to all axis. A tiny pitch up in control
resulted in a giant 20-30 degree pitch up. If you believed the screen,
you would have just ripped the wings off based on what the screen was
telling you. I was vfr severe clear on this day and ignored it. What was
not so bad about this type of error is that it is so bad that you can
ignore it and you don't try to follow it. These others are not so
obvious and much more dangerous IMHO as a result. I do think it is
probably exactly what you described below in your experience.
To answer some off-line questions that others might be interested in:
1. No I have not tried a different unit. We are trying to work with a
known good unit to troubleshoot. And no my unit has not been tried in
another plane. I think you can tell from some of the posts that these
are not isolated incidents, particularly the leaning.
2. No I have not tried dampeners. Dynon feels at this stage that a
change in the sampling rate might work and so we are doing that.
3. No I have not tried the 10A and I don't know personally if any 10A's
have exhibited this behavior. All I can tell you is that I offered to
upgrade and they did not believe it would fix the problem. So I can only
assume from this that the new hardware in their estimation would or does
or has exhibited this behavior also.
4. I have an 0-360 a1a, c/s, Dual EI, AFP FI sissy wheel plane.
5. No I do not know at all if the remote compass has any effect nor do I
know if any of the others have or don't have the remote compass. I do
have it.
6. I have seen the lean at many different rpm's, it is just that 2560 is
the number I can readily reproduce it every time.
7. This has been going on since day one in the leaning issue. Only in
the last couple of hundred hours of operation have I seen the pitch
error.
8. I am sorry I have not said anything sooner. I did not want a product
panic and I wanted to try and root cause the problem with the
manufacturer. The longer it goes, the more I hear from others about the
extent of the problem in the field. You are seeing some posts from
others now that are "I have seen that too" which is what I suspected. I
have had great difficulty in weighing the safety/panic issue and decided
now it is time that others be aware of the problem and that it is being
worked. Not to panic, but to be informed and take extra care as a result
of the info. It would have weighed on me heavy if something terrible
happened to a friend where my silence could have been a contributing
factor. We should be able to look at my data points and others, without
respect to emotion, and make decisions moving forward. Increased
awareness is a good thing.
Regards,
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N13eer(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon D-10 errors
Mike,
It is not clear from your description if the pitch error was a single
event or an oscillation. A couple months back I was doing some hood
time with a CFI in the back seat of my -8. After leveling off after a
long descent (If I remember it was from 8500 down to 2500) My Dynon
started pitching up and down. It didn't just pitch up 20 deg and stay
there. It was about 20 deg each way. Since the airspeed and alt were
stable I just watched it, it was a little unnerving. It damped out
after about 5 cycles. At the time Dynon said they had seen an issue in
roll at about 1900 rpm that they could duplicate but had not seen or
been told of other pitch issues. I tried to duplicate the issue but to
date I have not been able to. Doug at Dynon was very interested and
wanted any info on being able to recreate it.
Alan Kritzman
To summarize, myself and others, have been getting errors on the horizon
function of the Dynon EFIS. In one case it really scared me and as a
result I have grounded me 6A from any IFR work. Most of the errors are a
lean in the roll axis by as much as 7-10 degrees. Pitch errors in my
case have been as much as 20 degrees. Here is a brief synopsis of what
and how it is happening based on some e-mail to Dynon:
=
=
=
=
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Dynon D-10 errors |
Now you guys are starting to find out why certified AHERS are so
expensive.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
Auto transmission fluid has several pluses. Cheap, readily available, works
well, doesn't absorb moisture, doesn't dry to a sticky mess, doesn't catch
fire at as low a temperature as 5606.
BUT you have to use compatible seals.
Cy Galley - Chair, Emergency Aircraft Repair
Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: <JusCash(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Fluid
>
> Just curious, why would you want to use automatic transmission fluid in
place
> of the recommended MIL-H-5606G brake fluid?
>
> Cash Copeland A&P
> RV-6 Hayward, Ca
>
> In a message dated 9/7/2004 1:16:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> neil.mo51(at)btopenworld.com writes:
>
> Listers
>
> About a year ago there was a thread discussing brake fluids and the use of
> automatic transmission oil as being a suitable substitution. I've searched
the
> archives but can't find the references. There a couple of types of
transmission
> oil available, does anyone know what grade to use or are either suitable.
>
> Neil Henderson RV9A 98% finished 10% to go
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob Japundza <japundza(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon D-10 errors |
wrote:
>
> That was a single event of that degree. It was not oscillating at all so
> It did not clearly identify that it was malfunctioning. It just showed a
> 20deg climb and stayed there. I did not follow it at the time cause I
> was heading into my home base spec. vfr and was busy.
>
> I have had say, a dozen times where the pitch was off by about oh 5
> degrees. Never oscillating like the roll has done. And even in the roll
> oscillation, the oscillations are smooth and slow, say 15 seconds
> between 7degrees right to 7 degrees left.
>
> Now I had one time a month ago when it was erratic, where it was
> responding hyper sensitively to all axis. A tiny pitch up in control
> resulted in a giant 20-30 degree pitch up. If you believed the screen,
> you would have just ripped the wings off based on what the screen was
> telling you. I was vfr severe clear on this day and ignored it. What was
> not so bad about this type of error is that it is so bad that you can
> ignore it and you don't try to follow it. These others are not so
> obvious and much more dangerous IMHO as a result. I do think it is
> probably exactly what you described below in your experience.
>
> To answer some off-line questions that others might be interested in:
> 1. No I have not tried a different unit. We are trying to work with a
> known good unit to troubleshoot. And no my unit has not been tried in
> another plane. I think you can tell from some of the posts that these
> are not isolated incidents, particularly the leaning.
> 2. No I have not tried dampeners. Dynon feels at this stage that a
> change in the sampling rate might work and so we are doing that.
> 3. No I have not tried the 10A and I don't know personally if any 10A's
> have exhibited this behavior. All I can tell you is that I offered to
> upgrade and they did not believe it would fix the problem. So I can only
> assume from this that the new hardware in their estimation would or does
> or has exhibited this behavior also.
> 4. I have an 0-360 a1a, c/s, Dual EI, AFP FI sissy wheel plane.
> 5. No I do not know at all if the remote compass has any effect nor do I
> know if any of the others have or don't have the remote compass. I do
> have it.
> 6. I have seen the lean at many different rpm's, it is just that 2560 is
> the number I can readily reproduce it every time.
> 7. This has been going on since day one in the leaning issue. Only in
> the last couple of hundred hours of operation have I seen the pitch
> error.
> 8. I am sorry I have not said anything sooner. I did not want a product
> panic and I wanted to try and root cause the problem with the
> manufacturer. The longer it goes, the more I hear from others about the
> extent of the problem in the field. You are seeing some posts from
> others now that are "I have seen that too" which is what I suspected. I
> have had great difficulty in weighing the safety/panic issue and decided
> now it is time that others be aware of the problem and that it is being
> worked. Not to panic, but to be informed and take extra care as a result
August 30, 2004 - September 07, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-ps