RV-Archive.digest.vol-py

October 24, 2004 - October 29, 2004



      >   ----- Original Message -----
      >   From: Terry Watson
      >   To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com
      >   Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM
      >   Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
      > 
      > 
      >   OK, here's a different perspective:
      > 
      > 
      >   When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there was 
      > one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV list.  
      > It had been going for quite some time before I discovered 
      > RV's.  I had been building for a few months when one of the 
      > RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine reservist in New 
      > Jersey if I remember right, decided that it would be nice to 
      > have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all RVs.  At the very 
      > same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics RV list if we would 
      > like to have a separate list for each model. Then there was 
      > some discussion about whether there should be only one RV-8 
      > list, and if that should be Matronics or the Yahoo list.  
      > This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on Yahoo and another by 
      > Matronics.  Eventually the man in New Jersey who had started 
      > the Yahoo list decided he was more interested in his new 
      > motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he sold the RV-8 project 
      > and passed the list on to someone else to administer.  Then 
      > and now, I much preferred !
      > the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if it 
      > had all stayed a part of the original RV list.  There are far 
      > more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you 
      > only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss 
      > a lot of useful information.
      > 
      > 
      >   Which finally brings me to my point.  Why do people keep 
      > creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their 
      > list?  Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged 
      > by being in charge of a list?  I haven't found any compelling 
      > reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on 
      > line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8 
      > builders.  But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all 
      > you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's, 
      > and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior 
      > XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain 
      > EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel 
      > guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want 
      > someone to start an RV-8A list.
      > 
      > 
      >   You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one 
      > and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over 
      > the place."  Then why are you starting another one, and WHO 
      > is going to "shut the others down"? 
      > 
      > 
      >   Terry Watson
      > 
      >   RV-8A #80729 wiring
      > 
      >   Seattle
      > 
      > 
      >   -----Original Message-----
      >   From: firefighterspike33 [mailto:firefighterspike33(at)yahoo.com]
      >   Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:18 PM
      >   To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com
      >   Subject: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com
      > 
      > 
      >   Thanx Jerry I appreciate the kudos. The way to get people 
      > to move away
      >   from yahoo I think is to encourage them and to make use of the new
      >   boards. Mine is not the only one. There are one or two others that
      >   just opened. www.rvaero.com comes to mind. I think at some point we
      >   should congregate to one and then shut the others down so were not
      >   spread out all over the place. Anyway I think your right 
      > and that the
      >   web based forums are the best thing since sliced bread.
      > 
      > 
      >   -- John
      > 
      > 
      >               ADVERTISEMENT
      >             
      >       
      >       
      > 
      > 
      >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
      >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
      >      
      >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      >     RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
      >      
      > 
      > 
      > ===========
      > Matronics Forums.
      > ===========
      > ===========
      > ===========
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      > 
      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Too many lists?
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Larry, I installed the google desktop search on my computer. This way I can search all my emails and lists quickly. It works wonderful, as long as you save your emails.... Regards, Trampas -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists? The one downside, IMO, of the PHPbb lists is you can't opt to have ALL posts sent to your email address. I've seen a couple of add-on or hack attempts to do this, but the last time I checked this was still a deficiency of the PHPbb-style lists... - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy(at)romeolima.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:20 PM > To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com; > vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com > Subject: RV-List: Too many lists? > > > Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with > Terry, what the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system > with all the features we all need, and I'll get to that > below. Having been on most of these lists since 1997 I can > tell you that Terry's recap of the history is accurate but > doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked up the whole > YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the > World Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio > abandoned the RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply > intended to be a "white pages" of RV builders, then he added > more features, set up lists for all the specific RV models, > began adding advertising, added fresh RV-related news each > week, and it has evolved into what is today the most active > RV site in the world. Further, early on he established a > relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial > blessing. Of course Van's might be expected to manage an > online community themselves have never had intere! > st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits. > Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative with > his new format. > > So, now we have the following lists... > > -The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The > YahooGroups lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called > www.rvaero.com -Another startup called www.rivetbangers.com > -Others I've seen but can't remember > > Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform of each... > > Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that > Matt has coded himself. This means that if you're a member > you simply get a bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has > added a web-based browse feature, again that he wrote, but > frankly it doesn't compare IMHO to the commercial bbs > engines out there. This system is free but it is suggested to > make an annual donation if you are a regular. Formating > options are non-existent. > > The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on > offers more features than the Matronics system, but also has > some limitations and is definitely not state-of-the-art. All > YahooGroups are free, they pay for it with ads that appear at > various places. As with the Matronics system, Doug has set up > both an all purpose list as well as model-specific lists. > Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse > the messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of > individual messages. Formatting options are weak. > > Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board > system and is completely web based. You never receive > individual messages unless you have it set to send you one > when someone responds to one of your posts. Personally, I > really like this system best because my mailbox does not get > flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser > presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a few > options for customizing your view as well fairly robust > formatting of messages, including the ability to attach files > and pictures. The pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not > sure how they generate revenue, perhaps someone can provide > that information. > > RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but > after just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system. > They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not clear > to me if they intend to start charging for membership or not. > > Now let's talking about something very important: management. > Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to be excellent > managers with the best interest of the RV community in mind > at all times. They have both demonstrated that they are > willing to devote the time necessary, and have the technical > skills required. RVaero.com seems anonomous, I can't find the > name of the webmaster anywhere so I have no idea what this > person's motivation or agenda is. Rivetbangers.com indicates > it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave Bunting, and Ron > Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their motivation or agenda. > > Now, what do we need in an online forum? > 1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for > web browsing or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search > functionality 4. Good categorization 5. Ability to include > pics and files WITH messages 6. Ability to post & store > pictures in a gallery 7. Ability to post & store files > someplace central > > > Off soap box now. > > Randy Lervold, now building second RV > www.rv-3.com > www.rv-8.com > Vice President EAA Chapter 105 > EAA Technical Counselor > EAA Flight Advisor > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry Watson > To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM > Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com > > > OK, here's a different perspective: > > > When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there was > one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV list. > It had been going for quite some time before I discovered > RV's. I had been building for a few months when one of the > RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine reservist in New > Jersey if I remember right, decided that it would be nice to > have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all RVs. At the very > same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics RV list if we would > like to have a separate list for each model. Then there was > some discussion about whether there should be only one RV-8 > list, and if that should be Matronics or the Yahoo list. > This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on Yahoo and another by > Matronics. Eventually the man in New Jersey who had started > the Yahoo list decided he was more interested in his new > motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he sold the RV-8 project > and passed the list on to someone else to administer. Then > and now, I much preferred ! > the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if it > had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are far > more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you > only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss > a lot of useful information. > > > Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep > creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their > list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged > by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling > reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on > line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8 > builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all > you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's, > and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior > XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain > EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel > guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want > someone to start an RV-8A list. > > > You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one > and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over > the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO > is going to "shut the others down"? > > > Terry Watson > > RV-8A #80729 wiring > > Seattle > > > -----Original Message----- > From: firefighterspike33 [mailto:firefighterspike33(at)yahoo.com] > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:18 PM > To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com > Subject: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com > > > Thanx Jerry I appreciate the kudos. The way to get people > to move away > from yahoo I think is to encourage them and to make use of the new > boards. Mine is not the only one. There are one or two others that > just opened. www.rvaero.com comes to mind. I think at some point we > should congregate to one and then shut the others down so were not > spread out all over the place. Anyway I think your right > and that the > web based forums are the best thing since sliced bread. > > > -- John > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/ > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > > > =========== > Matronics Forums. > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Too many lists?
On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Aaron Frechette wrote: > I agree with Randy, there are some shortcomings to the > crude forums that seem to be popular among RV'rs. Aaron: But this, > 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages is the only one not provided by the RV List in its current form. (And, frankly, it's one I prefer not to have.) Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Subject: Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective though. My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180 degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls back to lock ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go FORWARD to go !! I built mine to go forward to lock. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Jeff, My plane has a hole in each wheel fairing just big enough to pass the extension -- about 1/2 inch diameter. The extension needs to be about 3 inches long. I made up a tool to hold and turn the old screwdriver type of valve cap -- the kind you used to have on your bicycle that necks down to about 1/8 inch. The tool is a piece of 1/4 in. od aluminum tubing with a hole drilled across it and a nail peened into the hole. With this tool I can reach in and take off the valve cap, and put it back on. I screwed together 3 of the standard extensions to get enough length. This combination doesn't really work too well yet. You need to find or make up one long one because there is too much spring pressure when you add up all 3 springs. I'm still not quite there yet, so this has been an interesting thread. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (60 hours) In a message dated 10/23/04 10:59:24 PM US Eastern Standard Time, shempdowling(at)earthlink.net writes: > > Do you keep the valve extension attached? How long of an extension? Im > having the same dilema. > > Jeff Dowling > RV-6A, N915JD > 140 hours > Chicago/Louisville > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote: > >Jeff, > >My plane has a hole in each wheel fairing just big enough to pass the >extension -- about 1/2 inch diameter. The extension needs to be about 3 inches long. > I made up a tool to hold and turn the old screwdriver type of valve cap -- >the kind you used to have on your bicycle that necks down to about 1/8 inch. >The tool is a piece of 1/4 in. od aluminum tubing with a hole drilled across it >and a nail peened into the hole. With this tool I can reach in and take off >the valve cap, and put it back on. > >I screwed together 3 of the standard extensions to get enough length. This >combination doesn't really work too well yet. You need to find or make up one >long one because there is too much spring pressure when you add up all 3 >springs. I'm still not quite there yet, so this has been an interesting thread. > >Dan Hopper >RV-7A >N766DH (60 hours) > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41891 shows an inflator with a flexible hose & a 'latching' fitting for the tire valve. You can grind off the latch & then insert the fitting through the wheel pant. HF also sells a similar inflator (didn't show up in my quick search) that has a smooth round fitting but costs about $20. Either will eliminate the need to use an extension. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
Date: Oct 24, 2004
> The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective > though. > My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180 > degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls back to lock > ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go FORWARD > to go !! > I built mine to go forward to lock. > > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter of swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm? Randy Lervold RV-3, fuselage www.rv-3.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Chris Krieg <rv6a(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: [VAF Mailing List] Too many lists?
Date: Oct 24, 2004
RVaero is the one managed by Mark Ferguson, who also manages the VERY popular MINI Cooper BBS, North American Motoring. Mark has done such a great job with maintaining and managing the NAM BBS that it is one of the top 2 MINI boards in the world. Everyone in the MINI community knows o NAM. Chris On Oct 23, 2004, at 8:20 PM, Randy Lervold wrote: > RVaero.com seems anonomous, I can't find the name of the webmaster > anywhere so I have no idea what this person's motivation or agenda is. > Rivetbangers.com indicates it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave > Bunting, and Ron Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their > motivation or agenda. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Michael Duran <mgdurand(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Diesel
I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear from anyone working on this. I plan to install a delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs particularly power output with turbocharging, and range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a predictable and safe way of running this fuel. Searched the archives and haven't found any recent posts on this topic. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Goodyear also now makes "Air Stop Tubes" which work great! Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > >> Goodness.....this makes me feel pretty good about my cheap old aero > trainers >> that came with the kit. I've have them on both RV6's and don't have many >> problems at all. > > As far as "cheap old" goes, Michelin Air Stop tubes are only a few bucks > more than the McCrappy ones. (I "splurged" on tubes but still use > McCheapy > AirHawk tires.) > >> On one plane, it has well over 250+hrs and over two years. I think I've > > Your tires might behave differently when you fly 250+ hours in 6 months. > 8-) I have to assume it's a function of takeoffs and landings as well as > just calendar time. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D > http://www.rvproject.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great. Check out http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27 John Danielson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: Diesel
Date: Oct 24, 2004
I spent a lot of time contemplating diesel and DeltaHawk in particular. If you talk to them, you'll find out they are anxious to sell you an engine, but put the $5k down and there is no refund, even if they are a year late on delivery. As of today, they don't have any real way to deliver an engine except for some 160 hp prototypes. None of these engines have ever seen any real time on them. One has run a "long time" on the test stand, but it was torn down and rebuilt for reasons that are not clear to us who might be interested buyers. Only one engine has flown. You might notice that it has only flown for short hops. They are not yet at the point where they are ready to build time in the air. They don't even know what the cooling requirements will be and are setting up with extra large radiators on the Cessna installation. The point is that these engines are still "very experimental". If you've never experienced losing an engine 10 seconds after takeoff 50 feet in the air with no place to go, you perhaps don't have a full appreciation for reliability. I do believe these engines have great potential and should be cheap to operate, especially if you have access to "red diesel". I just don't want to put my life on the line to test someone's engine design for the first time. The 180 hp engine and the 200 hp intercooled engine have never been in the air and have little if any testing behind them compared to most engine testing standards, but they are offering them for sale today for possible delivery sometime the middle of next year, if they can get manufacturing (which they don't personally control) under way. I hope these engines prove themselves and become challengers to the flat 4s, and I'm happy that someone is willing to step up and find out if they really perform and if they really will hold together for any reasonable period of time. I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one. Glad I got that off my chest :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran Subject: RV-List: Diesel I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear from anyone working on this. I plan to install a delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs particularly power output with turbocharging, and range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a predictable and safe way of running this fuel. Searched the archives and haven't found any recent posts on this topic. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
In a message dated 10/24/04 11:33:36 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net writes: > > Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great. > Check out > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia > tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27 > > John Danielson > > > Thanks John, That's exactly what I've been looking for. I think an extension is the lowest cost and best solution for me. Dan Hopper RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
In a message dated 10/24/04 9:49:54 AM US Eastern Standard Time, ceengland(at)bellsouth.net writes: > > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=41891 > > shows an inflator with a flexible hose &a 'latching' fitting for the > tire valve. You can grind off the latch &then insert the fitting > through the wheel pant. > > HF also sells a similar inflator (didn't show up in my quick search) > that has a smooth round fitting but costs about $20. > > Either will eliminate the need to use an extension. > > Charlie Charlie, This looks good too. But the extension has the advantage that it is easier to take along in the plane, so you can air up during a cross-country if that is necessary. Well, its not supposed to be necessary if you have the expensive tubes, but air is free! Thanks Dan Hopper RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
> > > anyone found a way around taking the front of the wheel > > pants off to fill the tires? > > Yeah, DON'T put air in at all! I'm not joking around. Buy a > set of *Michelin Air Stop* tubes (Spruce sells 'em) and you > won't have to put air in. They sure seem to work as advertised. > Let's see, how does one put a Air Stop tube of the size for the main gear into the nose gear tire? It would probably have a lot of wrinkles in it, but maybe it would work. As has been often said on this list, there is no decent tube available for the nose gear. I hope someone can prove me wrong. 11X4.00-5 is the size, search away. Alex Peterson RV6-A 546 hours Maple Grove, MN http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Randy: I have seen RV-4s that have done exactly as you suggest. Swap the rods so that forward is LOCKED. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,604 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:01:55 -0700 > The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective > though. > My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180 > degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls back to lock > ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go FORWARD > to go !! > I built mine to go forward to lock. > > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter of swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm? Randy Lervold RV-3, fuselage www.rv-3.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Diesel
Date: Oct 24, 2004
>snip< I'd ask of DeltaHawk, "How many other engines have you successfully designed and brought to market that have proven themselves over time?" As for the current engines, I want to see at least a few dozen flying and at least a few make to past a thousand hours before I invest in one. Glad I got that off my chest :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us<http://www.rv7.us/> I agree that it is a big leap of faith but some of us ARE into the experimental thing. The more important factors to me are the technical merit of the design, execution of the design, and a sound business model behind the company. Give me those and I'll throttle up on serial # 1. Unfortunately, I think at least one of the factors is missing on this engine, but hope I'm wrong. I'd love to see them succeed. Tracy Crook (RV-4 1400+ hours of Mazda rotary Hmmmm...) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: Diesel
Date: Oct 24, 2004
-----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Duran Subject: RV-List: Diesel I'm trying to investigate the ins and outs of diesel power in my progressing 7a, and would like to hear from anyone working on this. I plan to install a delta hawk as I'm impressed by their advertised specs particularly power output with turbocharging, and range. I'm also starting to organise an experiment to determine gel points for various mixtures of biodiesel and jet fuel, in the hopes of coming up with a predictable and safe way of running this fuel. Mike Mike: Kathleen has it pretty well figured out and I, too, wish them well. I signed up for a delivery position but when they asked for a non refundable deposit I declined for several reasons, some of which she mentioned in her post. One thing she didn't say is that there is a torsional vibration problem which must be solved before Hartzell props can be used. They postponed the installation of a CS prop on their Velocity test aircraft for reasons not made clear to me. Whether or not the torsional vibration can be cured remains to be seen. My interest was in the 200hp version for my RV-8. Their projected delivery schedule had them shipping 160hp engines by now with the 200 just after years end. Kathleen indicates none have been shipped. Deltahawk advised me that the 180 would also require intercooling albeit with smaller heat rejection than the 200. To me that says that the 180 doesn't make economic sense because the installed cost must be about the same as for the larger engine. Since an intercooling system has apparently not been flown, the configuration of the system is as yet unknown. Apparently a developer for the FWF RV market has not yet been identified. They have been rather quiet lately. I hope they make it. If you can wait long enough it might work for you. I cannot. Gordon Comfort N363GC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
I bought two of these and can get neither to work. The little rod that pushes down the valve core on the tire doesn't seem to be woking properly. It's screwed on as far as it will go. Anyone else have this problem with Cleavland's?? Jerry Calvert RV6 N296JC 36.4 hours...phase one almost complete! ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great. > Check out > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia > tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27 > > John Danielson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Since flutter is a harmonic vibration couldn't the addition of a spring change the harmonic point? It might change it into a more critical vibration range instead of eliminating the problem. Cy Galley EAA Safety Programs Editor Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Marshall" <tony(at)lambros.com> Subject: RV-List: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim > > Thanks for all of the responses to my query. I will probably go the route of inserting a spring between the cable sheath and the clevis to tighten things up. Vans support indicated that most manual trims have this play, it is inherent in the cable system, and they have never experienced or heard of a related problem. They get questions about it from time to time. > > The upshot of all of this is, if it bothers you, to tighten it up to extent possible with a spring, and not to worry about it. > > Tony Marshall > ArtDeco RV6 > www.lambros.com > P.O. Box 906 > Polson, MT 59860 > 800-432-6828 Office > 406-249-0835 Cell > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Alfred Klewin <rv6aokc(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Thanks for the input folks....I purchased the $8 extenstion for my air hose and I had already put about a 3/4 in extension on the valve stems, so hopefully the combination will work... Kurt in OKC Kyle Boatright wrote: Your local NAPA or equivalent auto parts store should have a valve stem extension tool (~$10) that is just the ticket. Drill a 7/8" or 1" hole in the wheel pant to give access. You can find plugs for that hole at most Home Depot's, Lowe's, Ace Hardware, etc. Make an alignment mark on your tire so the valve stem is accessible when the alignment mark is in a particular (visible) position. This means you won't spend 3 minutes per tire jockeying the airplane to find the valve stem through that little 'ol hole.. KB --- Original Message ----- From: "Alfred Klewin" Subject: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > Folks, > > Having fun with my 6A....50+ hours now!! Still no > paint....anyway...anyone found a way around taking the front of the wheel > pants off to > fill the tires? I would like to drill a hold in the pants to be able to > slide a thin "filler attachment" to fill the tires. Air stop tubes > will help later too.....any ideas on a part number for a narrow filler > attachment? Cant seem to find one locally.... > > Kurt in OKC > RV6A, Finally Flying.... > > > --------------------------------- > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vince Himsl" <vhimsl(at)turbonet.com>
Subject: Rv8 - Canopy Frame Hole Location Tip (Improved)
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Maybe...don't know. My plans don't mention alternate methods of attaching the canopy and as most first time builders (like myself) would (should) be reluctant to deviate from them, I would submit that your question would be best debated by those who have done this more than I, especially Van's. If gluing the canopy is indeed a better way to go, then an effort to have Van's include this method in their plans would be the most beneficial for the great majority of us who only build one plane. Regards, Vince Himsl RV8-vsh finish -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Subject: Re: RV-List: Rv8 - Canopy Frame Hole Location Tip (Improved) Hi, If you used windshield glue to affix the canopy, wouldn't all this hassle be unnecessary? Mickey >My previous post began a mini obsession with finding a quick, easy, cheap >and accurate means of determining and marking round tubing. ... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Diesel
> >Yes, I also had interest in the Thielert Turbo-Diesel, but I couldn't really >get good info on what kind of thrust it would develop. The torque is very >high and should equate to far better performance than an equally rated >(HP-wise) gas engine, but would it pull an airplane like an RV-7 as well as >a 180 HP Lycoming? I couldn't find a solid answer to that question... > There is a direct relationship between torque and power. If we use units of horsepower for the power, and ft-lb for the torque, power = torque * rpm * 2 * pi/33000, or approximately torque * rpm/5252. The torque produced by the Thielert Turbo-Diesel is no different than any other engine that produced 135 hp at 2300 rpm. I don't have the power chart for a 150 hp O-320 handy, but if it has a similar power vs rpm curve to the O-360, it would produce pretty close to 135 hp at 2300 rpm. So, an RV with the Thielert Turbo-Diesel should have take-off and climb performance similar to one with a 150 hp O-320 that happened to be turning 2300 rpm (assuming similar weights - in real life the O-320 powered RV would probably be a bit lighter, which would improve its performance). The Thielert Turbo-Diesel does have an advantage at altitude, in that it can produce its rated power up to about 5,000 ft, whereas our Lycomings are down about -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Subject: SkyTec Lightweight StaRTER
Date: Oct 24, 2004
I have a SkyTec starter model 149-12LSX, Ser# F2LX-270302, Pitch 12/14 for sale. It came off a XP-360 and has 20 hours on it. It is just like new. Off list contact jrdial@hal-pc.org Phone 281-687-2057 $275 including ground UPS in the US ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
The leakage with Nitrogen is the same as with air. After all air is about 80% Nitrogen. If the Nitrogen didn't leak as fast as the other components of Air, then eventually as you re-filled it would become more an more nitrogen with out the other components. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Comeaux" <mcomeaux(at)bendnet.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > How about filling with nitrogen...Works well > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > > > > > > anyone found a way around taking the front of the wheel > > > pants off to fill the tires? > > > > Yeah, DON'T put air in at all! I'm not joking around. Buy a set of > > *Michelin Air Stop* tubes (Spruce sells 'em) and you won't have to put air > > in. They sure seem to work as advertised. > > > > I used to put air in my -7's tires about once a week, maybe once every > > couple of weeks if I was lucky. Changed the tires and tubes about 2 > months > > ago -- and I haven't had to put air in at all. Now it's no big deal if I > > have to take the front wheel pant half off every few months. Figure it's > a > > good idea anyway to get a condition inspection in on your brakes and the > > tire as a whole. > > > > )_( Dan > > RV-7 N714D (260 hours) > > http://www.rvproject.com > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Alfred Klewin" <rv6aokc(at)yahoo.com> > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > Having fun with my 6A....50+ hours now!! Still no > > > slide a thin "filler attachment" to fill the tires. Air stop tubes > > > will help later too.....any ideas on a part number for a narrow filler > > attachment? Cant seem to find one locally.... > > > > > > Kurt in OKC > > > RV6A, Finally Flying.... > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today! > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Too many lists?
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Yes, it helps. http://desktop.google.com is great! - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Trampas [mailto:tstern(at)nc.rr.com] > Sent: Sunday, October 24, 2004 8:27 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists? > > > Larry, > > I installed the google desktop search on my computer. This > way I can search all my emails and lists quickly. It works > wonderful, as long as you save your emails.... > > Regards, > Trampas > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists? > > > The one downside, IMO, of the PHPbb lists is you can't opt to > have ALL posts sent to your email address. I've seen a > couple of add-on or hack attempts to do this, but the last > time I checked this was still a deficiency of the PHPbb-style lists... > > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Randy Lervold [mailto:randy(at)romeolima.com] > > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 11:20 PM > > To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com; > > vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com > > Subject: RV-List: Too many lists? > > > > > > Ok, climbing on the soap box now on this topic. I'm with > Terry, what > > the RV community needs is ONE good bbs system with all the > features we > > all need, and I'll get to that below. Having been on most of these > > lists since 1997 I can tell you that Terry's recap of the > history is > > accurate but doesn't finish the story. Doug Reeves picked > up the whole > > YahooGroups list management thing for RVs when he started the World > > Wide Wing of Van's Air Force site and Moe Colontonio abandoned the > > RV-8 list. Orignally Doug's site was simply intended to be a "white > > pages" of RV builders, then he added more features, set up > lists for > > all the specific RV models, began adding advertising, added fresh > > RV-related news each week, and it has evolved into what is > today the > > most active RV site in the world. Further, early on he > established a > > relationship with Van's aircraft and received an unofficial > blessing. > > Of course Van's might be expected to manage an online community > > themselves have never had intere! > > st in it preferring to focus on making airplane kits. > > Therefore they were happy to see Doug take the iniative > with his new > > format. > > > > So, now we have the following lists... > > > > -The original Matronics lists managed by Matt Dralle -The > YahooGroups > > lists managed by Doug Reeves -A startup called > www.rvaero.com -Another > > startup called www.rivetbangers.com -Others I've seen but can't > > remember > > > > Let's take a look at the forum/message technology platform > of each... > > > > Matronics is a proprietary message distribution system that > Matt has > > coded himself. This means that if you're a member you simply get a > > bunch of messages in your mailbox. He has added a web-based browse > > feature, again that he wrote, but frankly it doesn't > compare IMHO to > > the commercial bbs engines out there. This system is free but it is > > suggested to make an annual donation if you are a regular. > Formating > > options are non-existent. > > > > The YahooGroups system that Doug Reeves hitched a ride on > offers more > > features than the Matronics system, but also has some > limitations and > > is definitely not state-of-the-art. All YahooGroups are > free, they pay > > for it with ads that appear at various places. As with the > Matronics > > system, Doug has set up both an all purpose list as well as > > model-specific lists. > > Sign up for as many or few as you like, and you can browse the > > messages online if you prefer not to receive a flood of individual > > messages. Formatting options are weak. > > > > Rivetbangers.com uses the popular phpBB bulletin board > system and is > > completely web based. You never receive individual messages > unless you > > have it set to send you one when someone responds to one of your > > posts. Personally, I really like this system best because > my mailbox > > does not get flooded with hundreds of messages, and the browser > > presentation is excellent and by topic. There are quite a > few options > > for customizing your view as well fairly robust formatting of > > messages, including the ability to attach files and pictures. The > > pphBB system is normally free, and I'm not sure how they generate > > revenue, perhaps someone can provide that information. > > > > RVaero.com appears to use another commercial bbs system, but after > > just a cursory look I think I prefer the phpBB system. > > They are now soliciting "charter members" and it's not > clear to me if > > they intend to start charging for membership or not. > > > > Now let's talking about something very important: management. > > Both Matt Dralle and Doug Reeves have proven to be > excellent managers > > with the best interest of the RV community in mind at all > times. They > > have both demonstrated that they are willing to devote the time > > necessary, and have the technical skills required. RVaero.com seems > > anonomous, I can't find the name of the webmaster anywhere > so I have > > no idea what this person's motivation or agenda is. > Rivetbangers.com > > indicates it is managed by Mark Ferguson, Dave Bunting, and Ron > > Heberlein, but again, I have no idea as to their motivation > or agenda. > > > > Now, what do we need in an online forum? > > 1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for web > > browsing or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search functionality 4. > > Good categorization 5. Ability to include pics and files > WITH messages > > 6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery 7. Ability > to post & > > store files someplace central > > > > > > Off soap box now. > > > > Randy Lervold, now building second RV > > www.rv-3.com > > www.rv-8.com > > Vice President EAA Chapter 105 > > EAA Technical Counselor > > EAA Flight Advisor > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Terry Watson > > To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com > > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 2:24 PM > > Subject: RE: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com > > > > > > OK, here's a different perspective: > > > > > > When I ordered my tail kit in the spring of 1998, there was > > one RV list, and that was Matt Dralle's Matronics RV list. > > It had been going for quite some time before I discovered > > RV's. I had been building for a few months when one of the > > RV-8 builders on the list, a young Marine reservist in New > > Jersey if I remember right, decided that it would be nice to > > have a list for RV-8's only, instead of all RVs. At the very > > same time, Matt asked us on the Matronics RV list if we would > > like to have a separate list for each model. Then there was > > some discussion about whether there should be only one RV-8 > > list, and if that should be Matronics or the Yahoo list. > > This resulted in two RV-8 lists; one on Yahoo and another by > > Matronics. Eventually the man in New Jersey who had started > > the Yahoo list decided he was more interested in his new > > motorcycle than building an RV-8, so he sold the RV-8 project > > and passed the list on to someone else to administer. Then > > and now, I much preferred ! > > the Matronics list, and in fact would have been happier if it > > had all stayed a part of the original RV list. There are far > > more similarities than differences among RV's, and if you > > only follow one list and there are several of them, you miss > > a lot of useful information. > > > > > > Which finally brings me to my point. Why do people keep > > creating new lists and encouraging people to switch to their > > list? Is this all because someone needs their ego massaged > > by being in charge of a list? I haven't found any compelling > > reason to need another place to meet with RV builders on > > line, and certainly not another place to meet with RV-8 > > builders. But I do want to hear the latest ideas from all > > you smart guys building or flying RV's, especially RV-8's, > > and most especially those with RV-8A's with Superior > > XP-IO-360-B1B's with Whirlwind props and Blue Mountain > > EFIS/ones and LightSpeed ignitions. But some of you tailwheel > > guys have the occasional good idea too, so I sure don't want > > someone to start an RV-8A list. > > > > > > You say "I think at some point we should congregate to one > > and then shut the others down so were not spread out all over > > the place." Then why are you starting another one, and WHO > > is going to "shut the others down"? > > > > > > Terry Watson > > > > RV-8A #80729 wiring > > > > Seattle > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: firefighterspike33 [mailto:firefighterspike33(at)yahoo.com] > > Sent: Saturday, October 23, 2004 1:18 PM > > To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com > > Subject: [RV-8] Re: www.rivetbangers.com > > > > > > Thanx Jerry I appreciate the kudos. The way to get people > > to move away > > from yahoo I think is to encourage them and to make use of the new > > boards. Mine is not the only one. There are one or two others that > > just opened. www.rvaero.com comes to mind. I think at > some point we > > should congregate to one and then shut the others down so were not > > spread out all over the place. Anyway I think your right > > and that the > > web based forums are the best thing since sliced bread. > > > > > > -- John > > > > > > ADVERTISEMENT > > > > > > > > > > > > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/ > > > > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com > > > > > > > > =========== > > Matronics Forums. > > =========== > > =========== > > =========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 24, 2004
The following are great answers - just be certain to purchase an extension that has the little button to depress the valve stem (mine came from and RV camper store). In addition, I purchased some chromed valve stem caps - with a hex head, from an auto supply store. Then I made a driver by raiding my many tool sets and spot welded a small rod to an extra one that fit the hex valve stem cap. Works fine for removing and replacing the stem cap - perhaps overkill??? > > Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great. > Check out > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia > tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27 ALSO: The extension is screwed onto one valve stem at a time. You attach it, inflate a tire, unscrew it, and move to the next tire. It is about the size of a pen or pencil, but weighs a little more, being made of steel. I keep mine in the fly-away tool kit that I take with me on all non-aerobatic flights. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bluecavu(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Subject: Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim
>>Bah Humbug how many instances have you heard of flutter?=A0 Just about every cable controlled trim tab in an RV-6 has slop in it. That is just the way it is if you have installed the manual trim tab cable as the instruction say with an almost 180 degree turn in the cable. To much worrying and to much scare tactics going on here. >>Jerry Yes Flutter! Beware! For example I was told by a retired Cessna design engineer (Don Simon -great guy-may he rest in peace) that a few of the original engineers/test pilots on the C-210 flight test program died when the horizontal/elevator fluttered off one of the 210 prototypes many moons ago. He lost some good friends... told us all it was due to a sloppy trim tab. He told us to eliminate all such play on our planes or refuse to fly them. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RV8 Wanted
Date: Oct 24, 2004
My friend has decided to purchase an RV8 ASAP, Preferably IFR equipped and constant speed prop. Excellent workmanship a must. Please contact me off list. John Furey john(at)fureychrysler.com 330-324-2041 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
Date: Oct 24, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods > > Randy: > > I have seen RV-4s that have done exactly as you suggest. Swap the rods so > that forward is LOCKED. > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 1,604 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > > > ----Original Message Follows---- > From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods > Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 08:01:55 -0700 > > > > The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective > > though. > > My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180 > > degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls > back to lock > > ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go > FORWARD > > to go !! > > I built mine to go forward to lock. > > > > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X > > > Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same > thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter of > swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm? > > Randy Lervold > RV-3, fuselage > www.rv-3.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Subject: Re: SkyTec Lightweight StaRTER
In a message dated 10/24/04 5:21:22 PM US Eastern Standard Time, jrdial@hal-pc.org writes: > > > > I have a SkyTec starter model 149-12LSX, Ser# F2LX-270302, > Pitch 12/14 for sale. It came off a XP-360 and has 20 hours on it. It is > just like new. > Off list contact jrdial@hal-pc.org > Phone 281-687-2057 > > $275 including ground UPS in the US > > J. R., Is this 20 hours of cranking? Just joking. Actually, I was wanting the rest of the story since I may have this starter on my RV. Or maybe this is not the one I have, mine is the one that fits Vans FAB for the IO-360. Anyway, I was wondering why did you change? Thanks, Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Excessive Play in Manual Elevator Trim
> >>>Bah Humbug how many instances have you heard of flutter?=A0 Just about >every cable controlled >trim tab in an RV-6 has slop in it. That is just the way it is if you >have installed the manual trim tab cable >as the instruction say with an almost 180 degree turn in the cable. To >much worrying and to much scare tactics >going on here. > >>>Jerry > >Yes Flutter! Beware! >For example I was told by a retired Cessna design engineer (Don Simon -great >guy-may he rest in peace) that a few of the original engineers/test pilots on >the C-210 flight test program died when the horizontal/elevator fluttered off >one of the 210 prototypes many moons ago. He lost some good >friends... told us >all it was due to a sloppy trim tab. He told us to eliminate all such play on >our planes or refuse to fly them. > >Scott As a general rule, any free play in control surfaces or trim tabs is a very bad thing as far as flutter is concerned. But, as Jerry points out, every RV with manual pitch trim built as per the plans has some free play in the trim tab. The flutter testing that Van did on the RV-3, -4, -6 (and maybe the -8 and -9) was done on aircraft with manual pitch trim. And we have over three thousand RVs flying, and no known flutter accidents. So flutter due to free play isn't a concern in this very specific instance. The cure could be worse than the disease, if (as Jerry said in another post) the trim tab becomes disconnected from the cable, and the spring pulls the tab. A sudden, large change in stick force, on an aircraft with low stick-force per g and a speed well above manoeuvring speed could be very, very bad. I could see that possibly leading to an accident, if it occurred at medium to high speed, and aft CG. Don't try to second guess Vans - build it per the plans. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Marshall" <tony(at)lambros.com>
Subject: Slider Tip-Up Mod
Date: Oct 24, 2004
A fellow RVR Rich Meske some years ago developed a tip up mod for an RV6 slider. He sells a kit for the conversion at www.aircraftextras.com Anyone had experience with this mod? How much time does it take to install? Upsides? Downsides? Tony Marshall ArtDeco RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2004
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Diesel
A couple of comments are imbedded in Konrad's text. > >Dear Kathleen, >It sounds like it should, based on some answers on the FAQ' s found >on their website: >Q #1: How can a 135HP engine effectively replace my 160HP Lycoming? > >A #1: The static thrust, which is the force generated by the engine >to accelerate it forward from standing, of the CENTURION 1.7 is >greater than the static thrust of the Lycoming O-320 and equal to >the Lycoming O-360. Additionally, the combination of the specially >designed MT constant speed propeller with the engine provides better >efficiency than the Lycoming O-320 fixed pitch combination. Also, >the CENTURION 1.7 has a significantly lower propeller speed (2,300 >RPM @ take off and 2,000 RPM @ best economy) these two factors >result in an approximate 13% better efficiency in the propulsion >system as compared to the Lycoming O-320 But, RVs with fixed pitch props need a lot higher pitch than C172s, due to the much higher cruise speed. This leads to lower static rpms. I believe that most RVs with fixed pitch props are turning 2,300 or less during take-off, so Thielert's story on prop efficiency increase due to lower rpm wouldn't apply for us. >Q #2: In a PA28 or a C172 with a CENTURION 1.7, can I expect the >same or better take off, climb and cruise? > >A #2: The take off performance will be better due to the static >thrust of the CENTURION 1.7. At ISA the climb rate up to 2,500 feet >will be slightly less than with conventional engines; however, FAR >climb requirements are still met. Because the CENTURION 1.7 is >turbo-charged it delivers better performance than conventional >non-turbo engines, even at very high temperatures and/or high >airfields. Under this conditions at 8,000 ft altitude a >CENTURION-Cessna 172 outperforms the conventional avgas engine with >a doubled climb performance at 10,000 ft altitude (450 ft/min vs. ><175 ft/min). > > So I guess it just depends on what altitudes you prefer to fly. I hope someone puts a Thielert turbo-diesel in an RV, as it would be interesting to see how the performance compares. My bets are: Sea level take-off performance similiar to a 150 hp O-320 powered RV (based on similar rpm and power output). Sea level climb performance a bit worse than a 150 hp O-320 powered RV (based on a predicted higher power for the O-320, as the rpm increases above 2300). 8,000 ft cruise performance about the same as a 180 hp O-360 powered RV (based on the slightly lower power from the Thielert being compensated by the better prop efficiency of the lower rpm - the Thielert produces about 131 hp at 2,300 rpm at 8,000 ft, as compared to 135 hp at 2,700 rpm from the O-360. These performance predictions are worth what you paid for them. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods
Date: Oct 24, 2004
I was looking at the latch rod setup and it looks like it's the way it is because of the angles involved. It looks like by doing it Vans way the rods enter the panel and rear seat bulkhead close to perpendicular. Looks like either setup would be fine though. I'll mock it up this week and report back if anything interesting happens. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: > Re:Canopy Latch Rods > > > The light and inexpensive fits this situation all right. It is effective > > though. > > My complaint about these is that Van designed it totally backward - 180 > > degrees out of phase - bas ackwards !! The handle(as designed) pulls > back to lock > > ??? This is opposite to all else in the plane - where things go > FORWARD > > to go !! > > I built mine to go forward to lock. > > > > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X > > > Bob, glad you mentioned that. I'm building an RV-3B and noticed the same > thing on all the RV-3s and 4s I've been looking at. Is it a simple matter of > swapping the position of the rods on the handle arm? > > Randy Lervold > RV-3, fuselage > www.rv-3.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 Wanted
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Ken Balch has a super nice one for sale.....its in the classifieds on Doug's website....check it out www.vansairforce.net/4sale.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RV-List: RV8 Wanted > > My friend has decided to purchase an RV8 ASAP, Preferably IFR equipped and > constant speed prop. Excellent workmanship a must. Please contact me off > list. > > John Furey > john(at)fureychrysler.com > 330-324-2041 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Canopy Latch Rods
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Sounds like you have about the right idea. That's exactly what I and many other RV-4 builders have done. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of steve zicree Subject: RV-List: Canopy Latch Rods Hi All, I'm starting to attach the canopy frame on my RV4 and was hoping someone could explain the best way to make the latch rods. The plans show sort of a clevis on the end that attaches to the inside handle. It looks as though I'm supposed to cut a slit in the supplied tubing and then flatten it to make this. Is this what others have done? It seems a little crude. Thanks. Steve Zicree = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch?
From: "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com>
Date: Oct 24, 2004
All, Getting ready to order my Senenich FP prop (CS is too much), and I am trying to determine pitch. From their website, they list 83 as the std, with 85 being the "cruise" pitch. I don't typically fly at high altitudes, and cruise speed is definitely a priority. For those with the 85...what sort of climb rates are you seeing? Do you have any difficulty going 15,000'+? At this point I am leaning heavily toward the 85. I will be using an 0-360 engine. Also, I am plannig the Sam James cowl, and would be interested in corresponding off list with any 7 builders who have installed this cowl. Thanks again, Scott Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aaron Frechette" <right-stuff(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Too many lists?
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Tedd, I have to say that I don't see how The List is doing a 'good' job of items 1 through 4, set aside 5. I actually feel like item 5 is a good feature to have at times. Nothing like having the picture right there to help communicate a point. 1. Message presentation by thread or by date 2. Option for web browsing or individual e-mails sent 3. Good search functionality 4. Good categorization 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages 6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery 7. Ability to post & store files someplace central I suppose it has to do with the standards by which you judge these criteria. I personally feel like the mailing lists are an cumbersome means for sharing and organizing information when compared to discussion boards like, for example www.glocktalk.com, which runs on vBulletin. IMO, going from a board like this to The List is like going from Windows back to DOS. Well, maybe not that extreme. I'll just say that web boards work well for me. Aaron Frechette RV-9A Vertical Stab Portland, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tedd McHenry" <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many lists? > > On Sun, 24 Oct 2004, Aaron Frechette wrote: > > > I agree with Randy, there are some shortcomings to the > > crude forums that seem to be popular among RV'rs. > > Aaron: > > But this, > > > 5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages > > is the only one not provided by the RV List in its current form. (And, > frankly, it's one I prefer not to have.) > > Tedd McHenry > Surrey, BC > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch?
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Hi Scott, The general concensus is now that 85" should be the standard with a -360, and with a clean plane or a tweaked engine, then 87" might be a better fit. I have an 85" with my -360 RV6 and can turn 2800+RPM all the way up to 12.5K before I start running out of MP. I was thinking of twisting mine to 87", but then my takeoff/climb would suffer a bit. With my plane I get climb rates from 2,000+fpm solo, sometimes more, sometimes less depending on loading, temperature, etc.. Either way, I wouldn't be too excited about an 83" if it were me. Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com Subject: RV-List: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch? All, Getting ready to order my Senenich FP prop (CS is too much), and I am trying to determine pitch. From their website, they list 83 as the std, with 85 being the "cruise" pitch. I don't typically fly at high altitudes, and cruise speed is definitely a priority. For those with the 85...what sort of climb rates are you seeing? Do you have any difficulty going 15,000'+? At this point I am leaning heavily toward the 85. I will be using an 0-360 engine. Also, I am plannig the Sam James cowl, and would be interested in corresponding off list with any 7 builders who have installed this cowl. Thanks again, Scott Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com The most personalized portal on the Web! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: RV 10 Fwd Fuselage Floor Rib
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Page 28-5 Figure 2 shows F1049A-L, Mine was formed incorrectly the end tabs bent the wrong way. It looked like an easy fix by rebending the tabs. However the spacing of the end rivets is different on each end and with it installed with the lower flange facing outboard as per the drawing this reverses the end holes so that the holes will not line up with the floor panel. I talked to Ken Kruger at Van's and he confirmed that some of these were shipped before the error was discovered. They shipped me a replacement the same day postage prepaid, as usual the same great service. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fixed Pitch Prop Pitch?
Date: Oct 24, 2004
I have the same question for around 170hp O320 What is the experience with props for this engine? Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Root Fairings for RV4
Date: Oct 24, 2004
Can anybody tell me what the conventional wisdom is on root fairings? My 4 kit has some fiberglass for the front and some curved aluminum for the top. I've seen several pics of 6's that appear to just use a flat strip with what looks like some kind of rubber molding. I like the idea a lot and am wondering if any 4's out there have used this. Steve Zicree ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Too many lists?
>That's what Google is for! It will find it on Matt's list or just about >any where else it might be. I have not been able to get Google to find information on the Yahoo groups. Is there a trick that I don't know about? Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Too many lists?
> >Tedd, > >I have to say that I don't see how The List is doing a 'good' job of items 1 >through 4, set aside 5. I actually feel like item 5 is a good feature to >have at times. Nothing like having the picture right there to help >communicate a point. > >1. Message presentation by thread or by date >2. Option for web browsing or individual e-mails sent >3. Good search functionality >4. Good categorization >5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages >6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery >7. Ability to post & store files someplace central > >I suppose it has to do with the standards by which you judge these criteria. >I personally feel like the mailing lists are an cumbersome means for sharing >and organizing information when compared to discussion boards like, for >example www.glocktalk.com, which runs on vBulletin. IMO, going from a board >like this to The List is like going from Windows back to DOS. Well, maybe >not that extreme. I'll just say that web boards work well for me. > >Aaron Frechette In large part it depends on what e-mail client you use, and what you do with the messages after you get them. My e-mail client will sort messages by thread, and sort the threads by date. I read the threads with interesting subject lines, and delete the others. If I ever see a message with a good idea I change the subject to be more descriptive, then save a copy in a folder, with a different folder for each main area of interest. My e-mail client has an excellent search function, so I can quickly find a saved message years later if need be. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Slider Tip-Up Mod
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Took me 6 hours, one afternoon and $150.00 That is the only downsides. I have a few upsides that Ill share. 1. Wife Michelle now will load the plane. 2. Loading the 6A with the tail up is difficult w/o this mod 3. My 6A has tall seat backs for comfort, which makes loading even more challenging w/o the tip up 4. I could not easily remove my custom smoke tank w/o the tip up 5. We travel a lot and this mod actually makes us look fwd to loading and unloading the plane. While the rest of the group struggles to get to their baggage in the tandem or side by side. We stand comfortable on the ramp and pull out exactly what we need. 6. Cleaning the inside of the canopy is also much easier on the tip-up. Mike Stewart Gonna miss the access to baggage in-flight moving to the S8. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Marshall Subject: RV-List: Slider Tip-Up Mod A fellow RVR Rich Meske some years ago developed a tip up mod for an RV6 slider. He sells a kit for the conversion at www.aircraftextras.com Anyone had experience with this mod? How much time does it take to install? Upsides? Downsides? Tony Marshall ArtDeco RV6 = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DWENSING(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Slider Tip-Up Mod
In a message dated 10/24/04 8:45:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tony(at)lambros.com writes: > A fellow RVR Rich Meske some years ago developed a tip up mod for an RV6 > slider. He sells a kit for the conversion at www.aircraftextras.com > > Anyone had experience with this mod? How much time does it take to install? > Upsides? Downsides? > Tony, First, the plane is not yet flying (will be very soon) but I do not expect any problems. The installation is a little time consuming but worth it in my opinion. I simplified the mechanism that releases the canopy to slide back and allow the rear slider block to disengage the track but other wise installed it as supplied. The included instructions could be better but you get the idea of what is to be done. i.e. the screws holding down the side slider tracks must be changed to countersunk flat head screws. The instructions say nothing about that. The tip up ability has been a very nice attribute even in the construction phase. Used it again yesterday as I was installing the luggage area tie down ring bases. I believe there will be many times in the flying future that the feature will be most appreciated I am glad I spent the money and the time to install it. Maybe one downside.........now my wife thinks she can get a bigger piece of luggage into the plane! Dale Ensing RV-6A N118DE ready for FAA in about a week! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Overkill? Seems that removing and replacing the stem cap should be most important. Without the stem cap, dirt can enter and settle in the valve opening. Then,,,,When you put in air next time, some of that dirt gets moved a bit and settles along the edge of the air tight fitting; and you have just built in an air leak because you did not use a stem cap. Best to keep dirt out of the stem. Remove and replace cap each time you need to add air. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; in flying a virgin plane never flown before. - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > The following are great answers - just be certain to purchase an extension > that has the little button to depress the valve stem (mine came from and RV > camper store). > In addition, I purchased some chromed valve stem caps - with a hex head, > from an auto supply store. Then I made a driver by raiding my many tool > sets and spot welded a small rod to an extra one that fit the hex valve stem > cap. Works fine for removing and replacing the stem cap - perhaps > overkill??? > > > > > Cleavland sells a valve stem sxtension. Works great. > > Check out > > http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=VSE5&varia > > tion=&aitem=18&mitem=27 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lenleg(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: Manifold Pressure Error
List: FYI .... I found the calibration error in my MP gauge ... I was showing 4" high on the gauge. I am no longer getting 26" at 8500'. But I sure have a faster airplane now !!!! Len Leggette, RV-8A Greensboro, N.C. N910LL 281 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Scratches in aluminum
David, No one else has responded to your question, so I'll weigh in here. AC 43.13-1b states that scratches up to 10% of the material thickness can be polished out. Beyond that point there is a loss of strength to the part. However, since Vans tends to "overbuild" parts, I would contact them for advice after first determining how deep the scratches are. If in doubt, just buy a new part. Charlie Kuss PS If you don't have a copy of this very useful Advisory Circular, you can download it here. http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular.nsf/0/99C827DB9BAAC81B86256B4500596C4E?OpenDocument This is a 400+ page document, so it is broken up into Chapter sized Acrobat (PDF) files. Look in Chapter 4 for advice about aluminum structures. > >While drilling the lightening holes in the W-621 flap braces, >I managed to get some chips between the brace and the board it was resting >on---on the drill press. Due to the oscillations of the flap brace as the >fly cutter was doing its job, these shavings marred the surface of the >aluminum. It takes some pretty aggressive use of the scotchbrite wheel to >remove these while surely removing all of the alclad as well >as some percentage of the thickness of the part. My question is: > >1) Lightly touch up the area with a scotchbrite wheel while > not totally removing the scratch? >2) Use the scothbrite wheel to completely remove the > scratch? >3) Scrap the part and start over? > >This is not just one scratch. > >Thanks, > >David Kirby >RV6A-QB >Griffin, Ga. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Too many lists?
Date: Oct 25, 2004
So what e-mail reader are you using? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Too many lists? > > > > >Tedd, > > > >I have to say that I don't see how The List is doing a 'good' job of items 1 > >through 4, set aside 5. I actually feel like item 5 is a good feature to > >have at times. Nothing like having the picture right there to help > >communicate a point. > > > >1. Message presentation by thread or by date > >2. Option for web browsing or individual e-mails sent > >3. Good search functionality > >4. Good categorization > >5. Ability to include pics and files WITH messages > >6. Ability to post & store pictures in a gallery > >7. Ability to post & store files someplace central > > > >I suppose it has to do with the standards by which you judge these criteria. > >I personally feel like the mailing lists are an cumbersome means for sharing > >and organizing information when compared to discussion boards like, for > >example www.glocktalk.com, which runs on vBulletin. IMO, going from a board > >like this to The List is like going from Windows back to DOS. Well, maybe > >not that extreme. I'll just say that web boards work well for me. > > > >Aaron Frechette > > In large part it depends on what e-mail client you use, and what you > do with the messages after you get them. My e-mail client will sort > messages by thread, and sort the threads by date. I read the threads > with interesting subject lines, and delete the others. If I ever see > a message with a good idea I change the subject to be more > descriptive, then save a copy in a folder, with a different folder > for each main area of interest. My e-mail client has an excellent > search function, so I can quickly find a saved message years later if > need be. > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grand Rapids Horizon 1
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
***********SNIP Subject: RE: RV-List: Grand Rapids Horizon 1 I'm having dual GRT EFIS installed. I haven't had a single problem with them, of course, I haven't flown yet either. I'll report initial impressions next week. Chuck SNIP************ I have flown mine. It is a great product. I have 5 hours behind it now and it is amazing how much stuff it will do. It will probably take me the entire test period to fully grasp all of the cool things it will do. BTW, it is as they claim FULLY sunlight readable. I had mine slightly dimmed yesterday and could still easily read it in sunlight WITH my sunglasses on! Vince Frazier F-1H Rocket, N540VF http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Too many lists?
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I hadn't really paid that much attention to it but now that you mention it I don't recall ever seeing any results from the Yahoo Groups. Hmmm, let's try to figure out why that would be... competing search engines maybe? I'll try to pay more careful attention. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Subject: RE: RV-List: Too many lists? >That's what Google is for! It will find it on Matt's list or just about >any where else it might be. I have not been able to get Google to find information on the Yahoo groups. Is there a trick that I don't know about? Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Slider Tip-Up Mod
My experience is similar - I would like to see Dale's simplification though..... -----Original Message----- From: DWENSING(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Slider Tip-Up Mod In a message dated 10/24/04 8:45:39 PM Eastern Daylight Time, tony(at)lambros.com writes: > A fellow RVR Rich Meske some years ago developed a tip up mod for an RV6 > slider. He sells a kit for the conversion at www.aircraftextras.com > > Anyone had experience with this mod? How much time does it take to install? > Upsides? Downsides? > Tony, First, the plane is not yet flying (will be very soon) but I do not expect any problems. The installation is a little time consuming but worth it in my opinion. I simplified the mechanism that releases the canopy to slide back and allow the rear slider block to disengage the track but other wise installed it as supplied. The included instructions could be better but you get the idea of what is to be done. i.e. the screws holding down the side slider tracks must be changed to countersunk flat head screws. The instructions say nothing about that. The tip up ability has been a very nice attribute even in the construction phase. Used it again yesterday as I was installing the luggage area tie down ring bases. I believe there will be many times in the flying future that the feature will be most appreciated I am glad I spent the money and the time to install it. Maybe one downside.........now my wife thinks she can get a bigger piece of luggage into the plane! Dale Ensing RV-6A N118DE ready for FAA in about a week! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Diesel
I too have been keeping a close eye on the DeltaHawk. I've finally marked it "mostly" off my list. Now, I'm still couple/serveral/many years away from an engine purchase so my opinion may change. My painpoints where: - Very very new. - When it/something breaks what about parts? I know they are trying to get a distribution network going but I don't believe it exists today. - What happens if they don't make it and 5/10/... yrs from now I need a part that only they can supply. - Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is 6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of extra weight for full tanks. - Unlike in Europe, the price difference between Jet-A and 100LL doesn't seem to justify itself. A recent check on www.AirNav.com shows that the average price in the Austin,TX area is $2.69/gal for 100LL and $2.70/gal for Jet-A. However, deals can be had ($2.18/gal for 100LL and $2.05/gal for Jet-A) if you're willing to travel a small distance). At this point, I don't think it makes economic sense - at least not for me. I'm really excited for DH and hope that they make it. Regards, /\/elson Austin, TX RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Root Fairings for RV4
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I used the "flat strips and rubber molding" on my -4. I bought the corresponding RV-6 parts to make the change. I didn't like the look or fit of the fiberglass leading edges and curved aluminum strips that came with the kit. The flat strips and rubber moldings were very easy to fit and look fine, in my opinion. I read that, for planes like RV's, there is no speed penalty for this type of fairing, or lack thereof. I have been told, however, that the lack of this intersection fillet has an adverse effect on low speed handling, though I have never verified this. I have about 240 hours on my -4 and am very happy with the way it flies at all speeds. Good luck with yours. Dean Pichon Bolton, MA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> Subject: RV-List: Root Fairings for RV4 Date: Sun, 24 Oct 2004 22:07:24 -0700 Can anybody tell me what the conventional wisdom is on root fairings? My 4 kit has some fiberglass for the front and some curved aluminum for the top. I've seen several pics of 6's that appear to just use a flat strip with what looks like some kind of rubber molding. I like the idea a lot and am wondering if any 4's out there have used this. Steve Zicree ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: traffic warning scopes
In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these units? Good and/or bad? Thanks! Kim Nicholas RV9A - flying. 13 hours Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Moore, Warren" <Warren.Moore(at)tidelandsoil.com>
Subject: Root Fairings for RV4
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I went with aluminum/rubber root fairings insted of the fiberglass on my rv4. Glad I did, was easy to do, used .025 alum. shaped by hand. Looks a lot better...and no fiberglass. I had to modify bracket that attaches the front of the fuel tank to the fuselage. If built to plans the bracket on the fuselage is too large (wide) and will interfere with the aluminum strips. Get a copy of the RV6 plans and copy those. Bought the rubber molding from ACS. -----Original Message----- From: steve zicree [mailto:szicree(at)adelphia.net] Subject: RV-List: Root Fairings for RV4 Can anybody tell me what the conventional wisdom is on root fairings? My 4 kit has some fiberglass for the front and some curved aluminum for the top. I've seen several pics of 6's that appear to just use a flat strip with what looks like some kind of rubber molding. I like the idea a lot and am wondering if any 4's out there have used this. Steve Zicree ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
,
Subject: Cool new tool (weight & balance database)
Date: Oct 25, 2004
http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ Over the past few days I put together a cool (at least I think so) new tool for the RV community. It's a weight & balance database. Enter the data for your aircraft, and it gives you sample loading scenarios and lets you analyze custom loading scenarios. What's great about doing this in a central place is: 1) It's web-based and is accessible from anywhere (i.e. the computer at some random FBO). You don't need your excel spreadsheet anymore. 2) It keeps track of the essential aircraft attributes, like engine make & model, propeller type & material, etc. Over time we'll be able to do some interesting aggregate queries -- for example, builders will be able to take a "cross section" of the data and say: Let me analyze a sample loading scenario on a VIRTUAL AIRCRAFT, one that represents the "average RV-whatever with an IO-whatever and 3-blade whatever." I think the aggregate information that this system can provide will become very interesting to builders. I base this statement off the many requests I've seen on the email lists for stuff like "Can somebody with X configuration tell me what the CG ends up being?" FYI -- the core aircraft fields are catered to 2-seat RVs with a single baggage area. But you're not confined to just that...you can use "dynamic stations" to add your own custom loading points, such as "Wingtip Lockers" or "Fwd Baggage" or "Bomb Bay" or whatever you want. Hopefully you guys find this useful -- it serves fliers now and it serves builders in the future. Even if you don't see yourself using the weight & balance analyzer very often, I encourage you at least to enter your aircraft's data...which will help build the system on an aggregate level. http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ It's a brand new system, so there are bound to be some bugs...let me know if you see anything funky! Enjoy, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com P.S. -- Thanks to Carl Morgan for beta testing and coming up with some great suggestions. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: Bottom Airbox or Forward Facing
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I'm over my head on this one! Some engine suppliers are telling me that the forward facing injection is, "like adding 10 extra horsepower" to an engine. Others say, "it really isn't worth it, because it makes little or no difference." I suppose it's somewhere in between, but what do you think -- those of you who have comparative experience? Best Wishes, Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: traffic warning scopes In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these units? Good and/or bad? Thanks! Kim Nicholas RV9A - flying. 13 hours Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Larry, I certainly agree. It doesn't take much of a leak to lose air from one of these small tires. Here is part of what I posted earlier: I made up a tool to hold and turn the old screwdriver type of valve cap -- the kind you used to have on your bicycle that necks down to about 1/8 inch.=A0 The tool is a piece of 1/4 in. od aluminum tubing with a hole drilled across it and a nail peened into the hole.=A0 With this tool I can reach in and take off the valve cap, and put it back on. The caps I use do seal off the stem and core. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying about 61 hours now) In a message dated 10/25/04 7:27:44 AM US Eastern Standard Time, lhelming(at)sigecom.net writes: > > Overkill? Seems that removing and replacing the stem cap should be most > important. Without the stem cap, dirt can enter and settle in the valve > opening. Then,,,,When you put in air next time, some of that dirt gets > moved a bit and settles along the edge of the air tight fitting; and you > have just built in an air leak because you did not use a stem cap. > Best to keep dirt out of the stem. Remove and replace cap each time you > need to add air. > > Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" > > The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; > in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; > in flying a virgin plane never flown before. > - Richard L. Evans &Larry R Helming > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Ernest Kells" <ernest.kells(at)sympatico.ca> > To: "(RV LIST)" > Subject: Re: RV-List: Putting Air In Tires... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dennis Persyk" <dpersyk(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: (OT) Marry Me, Megan
Date: Oct 25, 2004
This image has nothing to do with RVs. I was so captivated by the subject I just had to photograph it! Image at http://home.att.net/~dpersyk/new.htm My RV-related page at http://home.att.net/~dpersyk/rv6a.htm Thank you for visiting my site. Clear skies, Dennis Persyk RV6A N600DP sold Hampshire, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 25, 2004
What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these little things! :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E. Nelson Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel I too have been keeping a close eye on the DeltaHawk. I've finally marked it "mostly" off my list. Now, I'm still couple/serveral/many years away from an engine purchase so my opinion may change. My painpoints where: - Very very new. - When it/something breaks what about parts? I know they are trying to get a distribution network going but I don't believe it exists today. - What happens if they don't make it and 5/10/... yrs from now I need a part that only they can supply. - Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is 6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of extra weight for full tanks. - Unlike in Europe, the price difference between Jet-A and 100LL doesn't seem to justify itself. A recent check on www.AirNav.com shows that the average price in the Austin,TX area is $2.69/gal for 100LL and $2.70/gal for Jet-A. However, deals can be had ($2.18/gal for 100LL and $2.05/gal for Jet-A) if you're willing to travel a small distance). At this point, I don't think it makes economic sense - at least not for me. I'm really excited for DH and hope that they make it. Regards, /\/elson Austin, TX RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Bottom Airbox or Forward Facing
The best part of injection is to be able to adjust each jet so every cylinder will peak at the same time. More good news you dont need GAMI injectors ($800) to do this, Air Flow Performance can for tweak each injector for $15 each! My cylinders peak with in .1 GPH of each other. Good for .3~.7 GPH savings. Now if you want to run LOP you can save about 1 to 1.5 GPH total. The engine also runs smoother with balanced fuel flow. Need an engine analyzer to do this though. You do have one right, how can you not on a $20K engine? At least thats the way I look at it. I know a guy who told me that if it was not for his engine analyzer he would have continued flying and 99% sure, would have blown a cylinder off his engine, the bolts/studs that retain the cylinder, most had snapped off and it was probably a matter of minutes before the cylinder launched. Because of his analyzer he was able to see a problem and land. As far as added HP I would say it may add a couple on a good day. > >I'm over my head on this one! Some engine suppliers are telling me that the >forward facing injection is, "like adding 10 extra horsepower" to an engine. >Others say, "it really isn't worth it, because it makes little or no >difference." I suppose it's somewhere in between, but what do you think -- >those of you who have comparative experience? > >Best Wishes, > >Kathleen Evans >www.rv7.us > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: traffic warning scopes > > >In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic > >warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 >manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these >units? Good >and/or bad? > >Thanks! > >Kim Nicholas >RV9A - flying. 13 hours >Seattle > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
Kathleen, I came across my engine on (would you believe) eBay! It was an IO-360-C1E6 which has the counterweights. I had to put a -A1A sump on it to clear the engine mount on my 7A because the sump sets farther aft on the -C1E6. That should make my engine a -A1B6. Now all this has nothing to do with counterweights, except to make you aware that some other things can get you too! I am in the process of overhauling the -A1A core that I bought for the sump. I just bought an overhauled crankshaft which does not have counterweights. These cranks are hard to find, and expensive -- $2900 after shopping around. This crankshaft has the advantage of being lighter (duh!), but also the connecting rods are lighter too, so I'm told. From Van's manual there is a warning, "Avoid continuous operation between 2000 and 2250 r.p.m." for the -A1A (no counterweights) for the Hartzell constant speed prop. I don't think that would be much of a factor, as I usually cruise at 2300 or above. I'll be interested in seeing what the listers have to say about this subject. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying -- 61 hours) In a message dated 10/25/04 1:04:36 PM US Eastern Standard Time, Kathleen(at)rv7.us writes: > > > What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced > angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this > combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these little > things! :-) > > Kathleen Evans > www.rv7.us > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: traffic warning scopes
Date: Oct 25, 2004
The April 2004 issue of Aviation Consumer rated both Monroy and SureCheck, but also mentions another one called the ProxAlert. I think they have done a follow-up on them since April, but I don't have it at hand. Terry RV-8A wiring Seattle (Lake Forest Park) In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these units? Good and/or bad? Thanks! Kim Nicholas RV9A - flying. 13 hours Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: Bottom Airbox or Forward Facing
Date: Oct 25, 2004
What specifically are you looking for on this analyzer to tell you indirectly that you are about to loose a jug? And would the GRT EIS 4000 "tell" you this with its automated engine monitoring function? -------------- Original message -------------- > > The best part of injection is to be able to adjust each jet so every > cylinder will peak at the same time. More good news you dont need GAMI > injectors ($800) to do this, Air Flow Performance can for tweak each > injector for $15 each! My cylinders peak with in .1 GPH of each other. Good > for .3~.7 GPH savings. Now if you want to run LOP you can save about 1 to > 1.5 GPH total. The engine also runs smoother with balanced fuel flow. Need > an engine analyzer to do this though. You do have one right, how can you > not on a $20K engine? At least thats the way I look at it. I know a guy who > told me that if it was not for his engine analyzer he would have continued > flying and 99% sure, would have blown a cylinder off his engine, the > bolts/studs that retain the cylinder, most had snapped off and it was > probably a matter of minutes before the cylinder launched. Because of his > analyzer he was able to see a problem and land. As far as added HP I would > say it may add a couple on a good day. > > > > > >I'm over my head on this one! Some engine suppliers are telling me that the > >forward facing injection is, "like adding 10 extra horsepower" to an engine. > >Others say, "it really isn't worth it, because it makes little or no > >difference." I suppose it's somewhere in between, but what do you think -- > >those of you who have comparative experience? > > > >Best Wishes, > > > >Kathleen Evans > >www.rv7.us > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: traffic warning scopes > > > > > >In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic > > > >warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 > >manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these > >units? Good > >and/or bad? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Kim Nicholas > >RV9A - flying. 13 hours > >Seattle > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > What specifically are you looking for on this analyzer to tell you indirectly that you are about to loose a jug? And would the GRT EIS 4000 "tell" you this with its automated engine monitoring function? -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <BILINSKI@KYOCERA-WIRELESS.COM> The best part of injection is to be able to adjust each jet so every cylinder will peak at the same time. More good news you dont need GAMI injectors ($800) to do this, Air Flow Performance can for tweak each injector for $15 each! My cylinders peak with in .1 GPH of each other. Good for .3~.7 GPH savings. Now if you want to run LOP you can save about 1 to 1.5 GPH total. The engine also runs smoother with balanced fuel flow. Need an engine analyzer to do this though. You do have one right, how can you not on a $20K engine? At least thats the way I look at it. I know a guy who told me that if it was not for his engine analyzer he would have continued flyin g and 99% sure, would have blown a cylinder off his engine, the bolts/studs that retain the cylinder, most had snapped off and it was probably a matter of minutes before the cylinder launched. Because of his analyzer he was able to see a problem and land. As far as added HP I would say it may add a couple on a good day. -- RV-List message posted by: Kathleen(at)rv7.us I'm over my head on this one! Some engine suppliers are telling me that the forward facing injection is, "like adding 10 extra horsepower" to an engine. Others say, "it really isn't worth it, because it makes little or no difference." I suppose it's somewhere in between, but what do you think -- those of you who have comparative experience? Best Wishes, Kathleen Ev ans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: traffic warning scopes -- RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2(at)aol.com In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these units? Good and/or bad? Thanks! Kim Nicholas RV9A - flying. 13 hours Seattle Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: Bottom Airbox or Forward Facing
Date: Oct 25, 2004
What specifically are you looking for on this analyzer to tell you indirectly that you are about to loose a jug? And would the GRT EIS 4000 "tell" you this with its automated engine monitoring function? -------------- Original message -------------- > > The best part of injection is to be able to adjust each jet so every > cylinder will peak at the same time. More good news you dont need GAMI > injectors ($800) to do this, Air Flow Performance can for tweak each > injector for $15 each! My cylinders peak with in .1 GPH of each other. Good > for .3~.7 GPH savings. Now if you want to run LOP you can save about 1 to > 1.5 GPH total. The engine also runs smoother with balanced fuel flow. Need > an engine analyzer to do this though. You do have one right, how can you > not on a $20K engine? At least thats the way I look at it. I know a guy who > told me that if it was not for his engine analyzer he would have continued > flying and 99% sure, would have blown a cylinder off his engine, the > bolts/studs that retain the cylinder, most had snapped off and it was > probably a matter of minutes before the cylinder launched. Because of his > analyzer he was able to see a problem and land. As far as added HP I would > say it may add a couple on a good day. > > > > > >I'm over my head on this one! Some engine suppliers are telling me that the > >forward facing injection is, "like adding 10 extra horsepower" to an engine. > >Others say, "it really isn't worth it, because it makes little or no > >difference." I suppose it's somewhere in between, but what do you think -- > >those of you who have comparative experience? > > > >Best Wishes, > > > >Kathleen Evans > >www.rv7.us > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: traffic warning scopes > > > > > >In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic > > > >warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 > >manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these > >units? Good > >and/or bad? > > > >Thanks! > > > >Kim Nicholas > >RV9A - flying. 13 hours > >Seattle > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > What specifically are you looking for on this analyzer to tell you indirectly that you are about to loose a jug? And would the GRT EIS 4000 "tell" you this with its automated engine monitoring function? -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Scott Bilinski <BILINSKI@KYOCERA-WIRELESS.COM> The best part of injection is to be able to adjust each jet so every cylinder will peak at the same time. More good news you dont need GAMI injectors ($800) to do this, Air Flow Performance can for tweak each injector for $15 each! My cylinders peak with in .1 GPH of each other. Good for .3~.7 GPH savings. Now if you want to run LOP you can save about 1 to 1.5 GPH total. The engine also runs smoother with balanced fuel flow. Need an engine analyzer to do this though. You do have one right, how can you not on a $20K engine? At least thats the way I look at it. I know a guy who told me that if it was not for his engine analyzer he would have continued flyin g and 99% sure, would have blown a cylinder off his engine, the bolts/studs that retain the cylinder, most had snapped off and it was probably a matter of minutes before the cylinder launched. Because of his analyzer he was able to see a problem and land. As far as added HP I would say it may add a couple on a good day. -- RV-List message posted by: Kathleen(at)rv7.us I'm over my head on this one! Some engine suppliers are telling me that the forward facing injection is, "like adding 10 extra horsepower" to an engine. Others say, "it really isn't worth it, because it makes little or no difference." I suppose it's somewhere in between, but what do you think -- those of you who have comparative experience? Best Wishes, Kathleen Ev ans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Knicholas2(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: traffic warning scopes -- RV-List message posted by: Knicholas2(at)aol.com In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an in-cockpit traffic warning scope. I have checked several suppliers and there are 2 manufactures on the market. Does anyone have any experience with these units? Good and/or bad? Thanks! Kim Nicholas RV9A - flying. 13 hours Seattle Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 Digests: http://www.matronics.com/digest/rv-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: [ Bob Olds ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Bob Olds Subject: RV-4 Canopy Latch Bars http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Oldsfolks@aol.com.10.25.2004/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Cool new tool (weight & balance database)
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Dan, I entered my empty cg of 67.9 and the program changed it to 0.06. Ross Mickey N9PT -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway RV7and7A(at)yahoogroups.com; dan(at)rvproject.com Subject: RV-List: Cool new tool (weight & balance database) http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ Over the past few days I put together a cool (at least I think so) new tool for the RV community. It's a weight & balance database. Enter the data for your aircraft, and it gives you sample loading scenarios and lets you analyze custom loading scenarios. What's great about doing this in a central place is: 1) It's web-based and is accessible from anywhere (i.e. the computer at some random FBO). You don't need your excel spreadsheet anymore. 2) It keeps track of the essential aircraft attributes, like engine make & model, propeller type & material, etc. Over time we'll be able to do some interesting aggregate queries -- for example, builders will be able to take a "cross section" of the data and say: Let me analyze a sample loading scenario on a VIRTUAL AIRCRAFT, one that represents the "average RV-whatever with an IO-whatever and 3-blade whatever." I think the aggregate information that this system can provide will become very interesting to builders. I base this statement off the many requests I've seen on the email lists for stuff like "Can somebody with X configuration tell me what the CG ends up being?" FYI -- the core aircraft fields are catered to 2-seat RVs with a single baggage area. But you're not confined to just that...you can use "dynamic stations" to add your own custom loading points, such as "Wingtip Lockers" or "Fwd Baggage" or "Bomb Bay" or whatever you want. Hopefully you guys find this useful -- it serves fliers now and it serves builders in the future. Even if you don't see yourself using the weight & balance analyzer very often, I encourage you at least to enter your aircraft's data...which will help build the system on an aggregate level. http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ It's a brand new system, so there are bound to be some bugs...let me know if you see anything funky! Enjoy, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com P.S. -- Thanks to Carl Morgan for beta testing and coming up with some great suggestions. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
My .02.... With my choice of an MT CS three blade prop - MT recommended the counterweighted crankshaft for over 160HP. No personal experience - but I have been told that the counterweights add a significant amount of smoothness..... Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these little things! :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E. Nelson Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel I too have been keeping a close eye on the DeltaHawk. I've finally marked it "mostly" off my list. Now, I'm still couple/serveral/many years away from an engine purchase so my opinion may change. My painpoints where: - Very very new. - When it/something breaks what about parts? I know they are trying to get a distribution network going but I don't believe it exists today. - What happens if they don't make it and 5/10/... yrs from now I need a part that only they can supply. - Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is 6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of extra weight for full tanks. - Unlike in Europe, the price difference between Jet-A and 100LL doesn't seem to justify itself. A recent check on www.AirNav.com shows that the average price in the Austin,TX area is $2.69/gal for 100LL and $2.70/gal for Jet-A. However, deals can be had ($2.18/gal for 100LL and $2.05/gal for Jet-A) if you're willing to travel a small distance). At this point, I don't think it makes economic sense - at least not for me. I'm really excited for DH and hope that they make it. Regards, /\/elson Austin, TX RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Kathleen All constant speed propeller manufacturers, both metal and composite, with the exception of Aero Composites, state that with a non counterweighted crankshaft you must not run the engine continuously in the 2000-2300 rpm range. Wayne Glasser ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced > angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this > combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these little > things! :-) > > Kathleen Evans > www.rv7.us > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E. Nelson > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel > > > I too have been keeping a close eye on the DeltaHawk. I've finally marked > it > "mostly" off my list. Now, I'm still couple/serveral/many years away from > an > engine purchase so my opinion may change. > > My painpoints where: > > - Very very new. > > - When it/something breaks what about parts? I know they are trying to > get > a > distribution network going but I don't believe it exists today. > > - What happens if they don't make it and 5/10/... yrs from now I need a > part > > that only they can supply. > > - Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel > is > 6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs > of > extra weight for full tanks. > > - Unlike in Europe, the price difference between Jet-A and 100LL doesn't > seem > to justify itself. A recent check on www.AirNav.com shows that the > average > price in the Austin,TX area is $2.69/gal for 100LL and $2.70/gal for > Jet-A. > However, deals can be had ($2.18/gal for 100LL and $2.05/gal for Jet-A) if > you're willing to travel a small distance). > > At this point, I don't think it makes economic sense - at least not for > me. > > I'm really excited for DH and hope that they make it. > > Regards, > /\/elson > Austin, TX > RV-7A > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Airparks...
vansairforce Anyone living in or around Plano, TX know of any hangar space available and the costs... Also, anyone know of any airparks in the area that are affordable? -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Scratches in aluminum
Date: Oct 25, 2004
David, Depending on how deep the scratches you may just be able to buff them a little with a scotchbrite wheel and prime them, or if the scratches are too deep you may just want to scape the piece and start over. Losing the alclad covering itself is not a reason to scrape the piece provided you substitute the alclad with primer. Mike Robertson >From: "David" <davewendi(at)comcast.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "RV-List" >Subject: RV-List: Scratches in aluminum >Date: Sat, 23 Oct 2004 14:50:01 -0400 > > >While drilling the lightening holes in the W-621 flap braces, >I managed to get some chips between the brace and the board it was resting >on---on the drill press. Due to the oscillations of the flap brace as the >fly cutter was doing its job, these shavings marred the surface of the >aluminum. It takes some pretty aggressive use of the scotchbrite wheel to >remove these while surely removing all of the alclad as well >as some percentage of the thickness of the part. My question is: > >1) Lightly touch up the area with a scotchbrite wheel while > not totally removing the scratch? >2) Use the scothbrite wheel to completely remove the > scratch? >3) Scrap the part and start over? > >This is not just one scratch. > >Thanks, > >David Kirby >RV6A-QB >Griffin, Ga. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Subject: Re: Tail Lynx tailwheel springs
I have been using them for 2 years and they work great! Rob Hickman N401RH RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Aircraft Spruce <fun_plane(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: ACS - RV Control Cables
RV CONTROLS CABLES: One of our customers recently posted a message to the group about two special order ACS controls that he was stuck with because they did not work properly for his RV. Aircraft Spruce has accepted them back and issued a credit for them, but we thought we better make some new part numbers for controls for the Vans series aircraft to spare other builders this problem. We now have A1760 Cans control cables under part number 05-01435 and A800 Vans control cable under part number 05-01436 both at $139.00. The builder will need to specify the knob color, overall length, and the stroke length (from several choices) when ordering. Standard A1760 and A800 controls will not work for RV aircraft but these special Vans controls from ACS Products Co. will work very well in RV applications. Jim Irwin, President, Aircraft Spruce _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David" <davewendi(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Scratches in aluminum
Date: Oct 25, 2004
The more I read, the more I wonder. Is there any such thing as a superficial scratch, or is anything deeper than a scratch made by a scotchbrite pad too deep? If a 10% depth is the limit for buffing out does a 1% depth or 1/2% depth or any other seemingly insignificant scratch need to be addressed at all? I've got a gazillion of these, some of which were caused simply by drilling a hole where the still attatched waste was spinning with the bit. Others were are caused simply by fitting and refitting parts. I may just be over cautious, but if I'm going to do this, I want to do it right. P.S.---How do I determine the depth of a scratch? Thanks again, David Kirby RV6A-QB Griffin, Ga. ======================================================================= > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: RV8 seats
Hi, Anyone have some suggestions of people that make RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, according to their website. I've got a set of the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll use those. Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Saffold" <michaelsaffold(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: O-320 needed
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I'm looking for a mid to high time ready to fly O-320 for my RV-7 project. I know putting a 320 in a 7 is odd. In fact, Vans said they never sell that engine mount. Here is my plan and I welcome input: I think rotary engines have some interesting characteristics and plan on going that way. Unfortunately there are no real firewall forward systems available. So, you pretty much have to role your own installation. Not terribly difficult, but I do think very time consuming. I'm going to install an O-320 and a very basic VFR panel now, to get in the air as quickly and cheaply as possible. This will be what I call my RV-7Mk1. Then, when I start looking at my empty workshop and get the itch to start building again, I will begin RV-7Mk2. I can tinker with the Renesis rotary engine on a test stand in my workshop and still enjoy flying Mk1. Custom ceramic coated exhaust fabrication, supercharger install, etc etc. can all be worked on while still flying Mk1. All my projects get hit by the "while your doing that you might as well do this" syndrome and with all the custom mods I have in mind for the RV it occurred to me I might never get into the air. I believe every modification to the stock plans adds a bunch of time and unforeseen consequences. Custom carbon fiber instrument panels, left side throttle quadrants, home made EFIS etc etc. Of course I'll have to take the plane off line for installation but I will have been flying it for over a year or so anyway. I may not even lose much when I sell the 320. Thoughts on this two phase idea and any leads on an O-320 very much appreciated. Michael L Saffold Phoenix AZ My (badly in need of updating) RV-7 website: http://members.cox.net/msaffold ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Erdmann's" <erdmannb(at)execpc.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 seats
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Hi Mickey, Yes, we do make the seats for the RV8, I haven't had a chance to update the website. Let me know if you have any other questions. Thank you, Abby Flightline Interiors ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> Subject: RV-List: RV8 seats > > Hi, > > Anyone have some suggestions of people that make > RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline > interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, > according to their website. I've got a set of > the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll > use those. > > Thanks, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Diesel
> >- Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is >6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of >extra weight for full tanks. But, diesel fuel has more energy per gallon too, so it's like you get bigger gas tanks without having to make the mod yourself. And the diesel engine burns less weight fuel to make the same amount of power. So even if you put the same weight diesel fuel as you would get with full tanks of gasoline, you can fly further with diesel power than with gasoline. The higher density is a plus, not a minus. You don't need to fill the tanks all the way up if you don't want to. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Schaefer" <dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com>
Subject: Electronic DG or HSI maybe BMA G3 Lite?
Date: Oct 25, 2004
You will be hard pressed to beat the Grand Rapids units. I've been flying them for about a month now and never fail to be amazed at the offerings. If you want HSI you've got one, highway in the sky, vertical navigation etc. etc. you've got it and it keeps getting better with each software revision. They are in my opinion the best cost / performance out there. Regards, David Schaefer RV6A "Geek One" N142DS Flying!! -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bordelon, Greg Subject: RE: RV-List: Electronic DG or HSI maybe BMA G3 Lite? Good question Chuck. I want to use it IFR and VFR, today and tomorrow. I want to pull my DG out and throw it on the hangar floor.... and put something electronic in its place, and not an "electric DG" either. I already have an indicator for my Garmin 430....so I don't have to have an HSI function in the DG but would use it if it were there. Anything else is a freebie since I already have all the other necessary IFR flight instruments installed. I saw the BMA G3 Lite (in HSI mode) and wondered if I could use it in place of my DG. I wonder how it would respond in IFR flight. Then I wondered what else might be out there that I had not already considered. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Rowbotham Subject: RE: RV-List: Electronic DG or HSI maybe BMA G3 Lite? --> Greg, Are you talking VFR or IFR? Both intially and down the road? Chuck >From: "Bordelon, Greg" <gbordelon(at)hess.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Electronic DG or HSI maybe BMA G3 Lite? >Date: Fri, 22 Oct 2004 11:07:52 -0500 > > >Since no one seems to be flying a Blue Mountain G3 Lite, I thought I >ask "What else is out there as an electronic DG or HSI replacement"? > >I wish to replace my vacuum DG with something electronic but don't want >to spend $10K for a Sandel or King KI-825. > >Any ideas?? > >Thanks - Greg = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Rhett Westerman" <Rhettwesterman(at)cox.net>
Subject: Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Kathleen, I do not know about the RV-7 but there are C/S MT props that do not require the counterbalanced crank. I know as I have one an 0-360 A1A with an MT prop, although not for the RV-7. It is a function of the plane, engine and prop best, Rhett -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Wayne Glasser Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank Kathleen All constant speed propeller manufacturers, both metal and composite, with the exception of Aero Composites, state that with a non counterweighted crankshaft you must not run the engine continuously in the 2000-2300 rpm range. Wayne Glasser ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced > angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this > combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these little > things! :-) > > Kathleen Evans > www.rv7.us > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of David E. Nelson > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel > > > I too have been keeping a close eye on the DeltaHawk. I've finally marked > it > "mostly" off my list. Now, I'm still couple/serveral/many years away from > an > engine purchase so my opinion may change. > > My painpoints where: > > - Very very new. > > - When it/something breaks what about parts? I know they are trying to > get > a > distribution network going but I don't believe it exists today. > > - What happens if they don't make it and 5/10/... yrs from now I need a > part > > that only they can supply. > > - Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel > is > 6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs > of > extra weight for full tanks. > > - Unlike in Europe, the price difference between Jet-A and 100LL doesn't > seem > to justify itself. A recent check on www.AirNav.com shows that the > average > price in the Austin,TX area is $2.69/gal for 100LL and $2.70/gal for > Jet-A. > However, deals can be had ($2.18/gal for 100LL and $2.05/gal for Jet-A) if > you're willing to travel a small distance). > > At this point, I don't think it makes economic sense - at least not for > me. > > I'm really excited for DH and hope that they make it. > > Regards, > /\/elson > Austin, TX > RV-7A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Tail Lynx tailwheel springs
Date: Oct 25, 2004
> > I have been using them for 2 years and they work great! Hi Rob, i was just curious how much slack you ended up using? The recommended 3/8"per side or something else? Jim Daniels ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Avionics cooling
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Has anyone out there used a blast tube from the naca fresh air vents to cool their avionics stack? What's the good and the bad --- from experience please, not conjecture. I've installed a small fan from a computer and directed it at the radio stack but I don't think it's doing the job of cooling, especially when I've got the heater vent on. I've checked the archives and found seven listings, none which answer my question. Chuck Weyant RV9A --- 32 hours and loving it!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 seats
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Let me put in my two cents worth Mickey. I just had Abby do a complete interior for my recently completed 9A. I can tell you that her work is as advertised and attested to by those of us who have bought her interiors. Even after all the build up, I was still shocked at the quality and completeness of her pieces when I opened the box. I've heard great things about Becki O. too, but there's more work to do with hers. All of Abby's stuff is precut, even the foam for under the floor matting! And it fits perfectly! Thanks Abby, you're a pro! Chuck Weyant N8058V RV9A --- 30 hours! > Hi Mickey, Yes, we do make the seats for the RV8, I haven't had a chance > to update the website. Let me know if you have any other questions. > Thank you, Abby > Flightline Interiors > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> > To: > Subject: RV-List: RV8 seats > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Anyone have some suggestions of people that make > > RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline > > interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, > > according to their website. I've got a set of > > the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll > > use those. > > > > Thanks, > > Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
I haven't tried this yet, but guys at my airport suggested using that tire stop leak that comes in a spray can. Supposed to make aircraft tubes stop leaking down so fast. Might work! Richard Scott 9A Emp ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Root Fairings for RV4
At 01:07 AM 10/25/2004, you wrote: > >Can anybody tell me what the conventional wisdom is on root fairings? My 4 >kit has some fiberglass for the front and some curved aluminum for the >top. I've seen several pics of 6's that appear to just use a flat strip >with what looks like some kind of rubber molding. I like the idea a lot >and am wondering if any 4's out there have used this. > >Steve Zicree There are plenty of -4's with the flat strip/rubber moulding fairing. Mine is that way and it works and look fine. Louis - Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Scratches in aluminum
David, It's hard to give good advice on an unseen (by me) scratch over the list. Generally, any scratch which you can feel by running your fingernail over the scratch, should be polished out. Your fingernail will be able to detect scratches of as little as .001" deep. The function of the part in question makes a difference as well. I wouldn't worry to much about a scratch in a part like the rear seater's side covers in my 8A. A scratch in a wing skin, rib, bulkhead or other structural member should always be polished out. Perhaps you can get an experienced A&P or another RV builder to come over and look at your parts. Do you belong to an EAA chapter? If so, contact your chapter tech councilor for advice. Charlie Kuss > >The more I read, the more I wonder. Is there any >such thing as a superficial scratch, or is anything >deeper than a scratch made by a scotchbrite pad >too deep? If a 10% depth is the limit for buffing out >does a 1% depth or 1/2% depth or any other seemingly insignificant scratch >need to be addressed at all? I've got a gazillion of these, some of which >were caused simply by drilling a hole where the still attatched waste was >spinning with the bit. >Others were are caused simply by fitting and refitting >parts. I may just be over cautious, but if I'm going to do this, I want to >do it right. > >P.S.---How do I determine the depth of a scratch? > >Thanks again, >David Kirby >RV6A-QB >Griffin, Ga. > > >======================================================================= > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: ACS - RV Control Cables
Date: Oct 25, 2004
Thanks Jim for taking interest in the RV builders group. By monitoring this site, you have shown that you are interested in your customers. John Danielson RV-6 Built, flown and sold -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Aircraft Spruce Subject: RV-List: ACS - RV Control Cables RV CONTROLS CABLES: One of our customers recently posted a message to the group about two special order ACS controls that he was stuck with because they did not work properly for his RV. Aircraft Spruce has accepted them back and issued a credit for them, but we thought we better make some new part numbers for controls for the Vans series aircraft to spare other builders this problem. We now have A1760 Cans control cables under part number 05-01435 and A800 Vans control cable under part number 05-01436 both at $139.00. The builder will need to specify the knob color, overall length, and the stroke length (from several choices) when ordering. Standard A1760 and A800 controls will not work for RV aircraft but these special Vans controls from ACS Products Co. will work very well in RV applications. Jim Irwin, President, Aircraft Spruce _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 seats
Mickey Coggins wrote: > >Hi, > >Anyone have some suggestions of people that make >RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline >interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, >according to their website. I've got a set of >the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll >use those. > >Thanks, >Mickey > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > Len Leggette Lenleg(at)aol.com I don't know if Len will thank me or cuss at me for this, but drop him a line & see if he's cranked up for production yet. I've seen & ridden on the ones he made for his -8A, and they look great & are very comfortable, at least in the back. :-) Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I don't know about using it in aircraft tires, but a product available at most stores like Wal-Mart, called SLIME certinly works. It completely stopped all the cactus air leaks in my tractor, and farmers swear by the stuff. It even sealed an old wheelborrow tire that has leaked after an hour for the past 15 years ! FWIW John ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Scott" <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> Subject: RV-List: Re: Putting Air In Tires... > > I haven't tried this yet, but guys at my airport suggested using that tire > stop leak that comes in a spray can. Supposed to make aircraft tubes stop > leaking down so fast. Might work! > > Richard Scott > 9A Emp > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Diesel
Date: Oct 25, 2004
I'd refer this discussion to Peter Garrison's "Technicalities" column in Flying magazine recently. He goes to some length in comparing Thilert's diesel to our Lycomings. Apparently the TwinStar, on the way back to Europe, had its diesels dialled back to less than 3 gallons-an-hour each, still putting out respectable power and cruising speed. I think the low consumption at cruise is probably its greatest attribute, which probably doesn't apply to zooming around the skies in RV's. Scott In VAncouver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel > >> >>- Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel >>is >>6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs >>of >>extra weight for full tanks. > > But, diesel fuel has more energy per gallon too, so it's like you get > bigger gas tanks without having to make the mod yourself. And the > diesel engine burns less weight fuel to make the same amount of > power. So even if you put the same weight diesel fuel as you would > get with full tanks of gasoline, you can fly further with diesel > power than with gasoline. > > The higher density is a plus, not a minus. You don't need to fill > the tanks all the way up if you don't want to. > -- > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: FADEC
Date: Oct 26, 2004
I ordered an engine from Mattituck at Sun-N-Fun this year (along with at least 17 other people that week) and was very pleased with the cooperation I received from them. Especially since I was asking for the lightspeed ignition (one side only, mag on other side) AND Airflow Performance Fuel Injection specifically designed for Van's airbox(not one of Mattituck's std options). It's a 180 hp TMX IO-360 and it cost $21K, LESS than a (carbeureted, dual mag) Lycoming from Van's!! I considered FADEC after talking with Van's landing gear maker Harmon Lange. Harmon built a QB RV-8A with an Aerosport O-360 (rebuilt, this was before any mfgs started offering engines from all new replacement parts, aka Superior or ECI). He bought the engine from Bart for $14k outright and purchased the FADEC from Van's, entire package price $21K, about the cost of a Van's Lycoming at that time. His philosophy in building the plane was: we have all this latest and greatest technology, so why not use it to make my life as a pilot as simple and safe as possible. Not having to worry about mixture and engine management means less pilot workload and lets me keep my mind on the most important thing (flying the airplane). He also was an early adopter of the Blue Mountain EFIS1 and last I heard he was extremely pleased with his whole concept. I was intrigued by this thought, WOW a FADEC equipped Lycoming for less than a Van's Lycoming without FADEC!!! But I didn't get the FADEC. Why not? Because, like someone else mentioned on the list, the extra cost. Since the new engines have come out, I decided I really wanted an engine that's been made from NEW parts and if I add the FADEC to that it ends up costing several thousand more than a Van's Lycoming (my benchmark, I got beat that price, point). I did want fuel injection and liked the anti-vaporlock feature of the AFP even though it's rather pricey (Mattituck deleted the cost of the carb and added in the cost of the fuel injection so it wasn't as big a bite as I feared) and electronic ignition was also a need-to-have item. Yes I will have to play with the mixture like in the old spam cans but I can live with that. My original philosophy for installing fuel injection was two-fold, 1) get rid of the carb heat (still need alternate air in case the inlet gets plugged)and 2) better mixture distribution. After having a lengthly conversation with Van himself I reconsidered the fuel injection for a time. Van was concerned that I might be wanting fuel injection for the wrong reasons but concurred that my philosophy was correct after hearing my explanation. He did stress however that since Lycoming engines have their carburetors attached to the bottom of the sump they are warmed by the oil and ALMOST never experience carburetor icing (Continental engines are a different story, don't ask how I know). My discussions with other Lycoming owners confirmed that carb ice was seldom, if ever, a problem (0-320/0-360, I don't know about the 540/720 series). That left only ONE reason to buy the fuel injection and at the time I was a bit less financially capable and wanted some of those fancy new goodies in my instrument panel more than I wanted FI so I really thought about just getting a carb (with the heat box of course). Later I would come into some additional cash and the Mattituck engine was quite reasonable (Penn Yan also has very good prices) so I went for the whole ball-of-wax and couldn't be happier. If Mattituck support is a good as they've been with my requests I'll be a very happy camper indeed, along with many other folks!! I think that the (Aerosance)FADEC has been around long enough and tested enough that it's a solid unit (Van's did a bunch of testing and the units they sell are tweaked to work best with 0-320/0-360 engines on the RVs). These FADECs are also going on certified aircraft and to meet the requirements of our "friends" at the FAA, they have a lot of redundancy built in. That means that they have multiple systems built in (within the system) so that parts can fail in the unit and it will continue to function. The FADEC actually consists of two "bricks" that are bolted to the firewall, one provides the spark to the two cylinders on one side of the engine (top and bottom plugs) and the other provides the spark to the two cylinders on the other side of the engine (top and bottom plugs). What bothers me about this is what would happen if one of the bricks failed completely!!! That would leave the brick on the other side functioning but... only two cylinders would have spark and on only one side of the engine!! Needless to say, the engine would run quite rough and you'd be lucky to have 50% power. I'm not sure why they didn't have each brick fire all four cylinders and split the bricks for the top and bottom plugs instead of left and right side of the engine. I'll be the first to admit I don't know everything about this FADEC, I'm sure the engineers considered this and did lots of analysis before choosing this configuration so I likely am missing important information but it does seem to me that this IS a potential undesirable failure mode. I'll let them explain if they have someone who monitors this list. Anyway, enough babbling for now, anyone with FADEC experience care to comment? Harmon, you on the list? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6 N197DM Wheel pants (non trivial) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: Diesel
Date: Oct 25, 2004
...But, while diesel has more energy per volume than gasoline, it has less energy per weight. So for performance reasons it's not as good, but for endurance reasons it's better. I'd love to be able to burn diesel in my rotary engine. Todd Bartrim RV9Endurance 13B Turbo Rotary C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do." -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel > >- Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is >6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of >extra weight for full tanks. But, diesel fuel has more energy per gallon too, so it's like you get bigger gas tanks without having to make the mod yourself. And the diesel engine burns less weight fuel to make the same amount of power. So even if you put the same weight diesel fuel as you would get with full tanks of gasoline, you can fly further with diesel power than with gasoline. The higher density is a plus, not a minus. You don't need to fill the tanks all the way up if you don't want to. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2004
From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com>
Subject: Question on Folding Leading Edge of Elevator...
(not processed: message from valid local sender) I had a heck of a time folding over the leading edges of the elevators (especially where it is really narrow). After doing the best I could do, there are places where the top and bottom flap are not completely flat against each other where the pop rivet goes through them. I was wondering if this is okay or not... has anyone else had this same problem? I have spent hours just trying to get the bends right. The other thing I noticed is that the flap on the outside doesnt lay completely flat against the other sheet once it is all put together (I can put my finger nail in between the two in some places). The Rudder seemed to be much easier... Feedback is appreciated. - Matt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Fuel & Oil Hoses
List, I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses or roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit Racing. Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've been there done that... Jerry Cochran ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 26, 2004
> I don't know about using it in aircraft tires, but a product available at > most stores like Wal-Mart, called SLIME certinly works. It completely > stopped all the cactus air leaks in my tractor, and farmers swear by the > stuff. It even sealed an old wheelborrow tire that has leaked after an hour > for the past 15 years ! I'll have to keep that in mind for my lawn tractor; but, I wouldn't put any of that stuff in my aircraft tires. There's a big difference in the spin of the tire for a tractor and the tire for a RV. I'm not sure how SLIME works; but, it's going to settle, at some point. When it does, it will cause an out of balanced tire that may shake the dickens out of the airplane. I had a friend who put a quick fix in his auto tires and had to replace the ones he put it in. It threw the tires out of balance so badly that he couldn't drive the car. The tires on the RV will spin a lot faster at a given speed than auto tires because they're so much smaller. Even if SLIME moves around to balance things out, the initial spin is going to be a rude awakening. If one is really anal about not wanting to check air pressures, go with the no leak tubes. I find that putting a little air in the tires, from time to time, to be a non-issue. It's part of being close and personal with my airplane like checking the oil and gas. It's a time when I can glance around at other things under the wings that I might normally miss seeing. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 (Building wings; fuse ordered) EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Danny Lawhon <dlawhon(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Also the ground up toilet paper and antifreeze that its made out of can cause the rims to rust on the inside of the wheel and cause early failure of the rims.. :) huge pits on the steel.. happened on my lawn tractor, tubes sound better idea to me.. --- sears(at)searnet.com wrote: > > > > I don't know about using it in aircraft tires, but > a product available at > > most stores like Wal-Mart, called SLIME certinly > works. It completely > > stopped all the cactus air leaks in my tractor, > and farmers swear by the > > stuff. It even sealed an old wheelborrow tire that > has leaked after an > hour > > for the past 15 years ! > > I'll have to keep that in mind for my lawn tractor; > but, I wouldn't put any > of that stuff in my aircraft tires. There's a big > difference in the spin of > the tire for a tractor and the tire for a RV. I'm > not sure how SLIME works; > but, it's going to settle, at some point. When it > does, it will cause an > out of balanced tire that may shake the dickens out > of the airplane. I had > a friend who put a quick fix in his auto tires and > had to replace the ones > he put it in. It threw the tires out of balance so > badly that he couldn't > drive the car. The tires on the RV will spin a lot > faster at a given speed > than auto tires because they're so much smaller. > Even if SLIME moves around > to balance things out, the initial spin is going to > be a rude awakening. > > If one is really anal about not wanting to check air > pressures, go with the > no leak tubes. I find that putting a little air in > the tires, from time to > time, to be a non-issue. It's part of being close > and personal with my > airplane like checking the oil and gas. It's a time > when I can glance > around at other things under the wings that I might > normally miss seeing. > > Jim Sears in KY > RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) > RV-7A #70317 (Building wings; fuse ordered) > EAA Tech Counselor > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Date: Oct 26, 2004
It depends I guess on your engine. But, I bought all the hoses in the Vans FWF kit for my TMX-O-360 which is basically an improved stock O-360-A1A. I had to shorten most hoses to improve the use of space and make it fit better. You could consider finding someone in you local EAA that has the tools and make and test your own. Having them custom made by one of the standard suppliers is not the cheapest way to get the job done. Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker" The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty; in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts; in flying a virgin plane never flown before. - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > > List, > > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses or > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit Racing. > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've > been there done that... > > Jerry Cochran > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Todd Wenzel, MSCD" <todd.wenzel@wenzel-software.com>
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: RV8 Seats
Mickey, I HAVE -8 seats from Abby as does Gert V. who is also on this list. We were the first two -8's that Abby made and believe me when I tell you, she did an incredible job. I would HIGHLY recommend contacting her for your seats. She did a fantastic custom embroidered "Stars & Bars" design on my seats to go with the military paint scheme. I'm not flying yet, but when I want to relax, I crawl up into the -8 and fall asleep in the seats - the only technical problem I have is how to get the recliner feet-support to swing up free of the rudder pedals! ;>) Todd Wenzel Delafield, WI RV-8A, Finish Kit N900TW (reserved) Let me put in my two cents worth Mickey. I just had Abby do a complete interior for my recently completed 9A. I can tell you that her work is as advertised and attested to by those of us who have bought her interiors. Even after all the build up, I was still shocked at the quality and completeness of her pieces when I opened the box. I've heard great things about Becki O. too, but there's more work to do with hers. All of Abby's stuff is precut, even the foam for under the floor matting! And it fits perfectly! Thanks Abby, you're a pro! Chuck Weyant N8058V RV9A --- 30 hours! > Hi Mickey, Yes, we do make the seats for the RV8, I haven't had a chance > to update the website. Let me know if you have any other questions. > Thank you, Abby > Flightline Interiors > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> > To: > Subject: RV-List: RV8 seats > > > > > > Hi, > > > > Anyone have some suggestions of people that make > > RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline > > interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, > > according to their website. I've got a set of > > the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll > > use those. > > > > Thanks, > > Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Valve stem caps
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
*********SNIP In addition, I purchased some chromed valve stem caps - with a hex head, > from an auto supply store. Then I made a driver by raiding my many tool > sets and spot welded a small rod to an extra one that fit the hex valve stem > cap. Works fine for removing and replacing the stem cap - perhaps > overkill??? SNIP************** Here's another way to do the same thing: Use your regular cheapo black plastic valve stem caps. Get a 1" piece of Tygon tubing that will wedge onto the valve stem cap. The little ribs on the cap will grap inside the Tygon very nicely. Next get a wood, steel or whatever rod that will wedge inside the other end of the Tygon. Safety wire or clamp the Tygon to the rod if needed. To use, simply remove the hole plug from your wheelpant and stick the Tygon over the valve cap, wedge and twist. Installation is simply the reverse. Works very well. This idea was stolen from John Crabtree who stole it from ???? Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank
If you are considering the 360 non-counterbalanced angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop, there is a RPM restriction for continuos operation in the range between 2000 and 2300 RPM. Sometimes there is an allowance for operation in the area below a certain manifold pressure. This is a propeller and engine combination restriction. MT Propeller has designed a 2 blade aluminum blade CS propeller that does not have this RPM restriction. It is specifically designed for the Lycoming 360 engine with the non-counterweighted crankshaft and the RV series aircraft. Additional information for this propeller is on my website at _www.lessdrag.com/lycomingpropeller.html_ (http://www.lessdrag.com/lycomingpropeller.html) Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. In a message dated 10/25/2004 11:59:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these little things! :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Diesel
Hi Kevin, True. I never saw any mention so thought I'd throw that into the pot given that some builders are very conscious about weight. Hmmmm, I just noticed an error below - RV-7 tanks are 21 gallons/ea so an extra 40 lbs for fuel....sorry about that. /\/elson On Mon, 25 Oct 2004, Kevin Horton wrote: > >> >> - Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is >> 6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of >> extra weight for full tanks. > > But, diesel fuel has more energy per gallon too, so it's like you get > bigger gas tanks without having to make the mod yourself. And the > diesel engine burns less weight fuel to make the same amount of > power. So even if you put the same weight diesel fuel as you would > get with full tanks of gasoline, you can fly further with diesel > power than with gasoline. > > The higher density is a plus, not a minus. You don't need to fill > the tanks all the way up if you don't want to. > -- ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~ time, then break it again. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 72 Msgs - 10/25/04
Hi All, The RV-8 also uses the flat aluminum sheet and rubber strip at the wing root. One RV-8 flown with the aluminum sheet, but without the rubber strip, had a 75 mph stall speed. There was also reported to be a tail buffet near the stall. Adding the rubber strip reduced the stall to a normal speed. One RV-8 flown without the rubber strip or aluminum sheet had a 100 mph stall speed. Neither of these higher stall speeds seem like a good thing to have happen. Jim Ayers In a message dated 10/25/2004 11:59:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Root Fairings for RV4 (Stuff Cut) I have been told, however, that the lack of this intersection fillet has an adverse effect on low speed handling, though I have never verified this. I have about 240 hours on my -4 and am very happy with the way it flies at all speeds. Good luck with yours. Dean Pichon Bolton, MA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > > List, > > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses or > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit Racing. > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've > been there done that... Been there, done that, but not sure I can shed much light on your excellent question. The hoses on my RV-6 have been in service for over five years, have not had any problems, and they still look like new. I fabricated them from Aeroquip fittings and hose purchased from a local speed shop and the cost was far below that of "real airplane hoses". The hoses were pressure tested prior to being installed. I also made the hoses for the remote oil and fuel pressure senders. However, I am now faced with the question of whether or not, or when, to replace these hoses. Do I make a preemptive strike and replace them after five years in service or wait until some sort of issue arises with them? I don't know. Guess it will depend on when I reach the point that I am tired of thinking about the old hoses. I have seen cases where "real airplane hoses" experienced problems so I doubt there are any perfect hoses.... So, in regards to your question, properly fabricated (make sure you know how to properly install the fittings and have the hoses tested) Aeroquip hoses will work just fine and you can save some money while building hoses that exactly fit your application. Are the Aeroquip hoses the best way to go? I don't know. This is probably one of those issues like primer, fixed vs CS, tip-up vs slider, etc, that is surrounded by swirling opinions but where you ultimately must make a decision based on your best judgment and comfort level. Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Christopher Stone <rv8iator(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Diesel calorific value
Energy content of fuels...in BTU per POUND or gallon AvGas: ~18,800 BTU / pound or 112,500 BTU / gallon http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/aviationfuel/2_at_fuel_perf.shtm#figure2_1 Diesel: ~20,500 BTU / pound or 138,700 BTU / gallon http://www.chevron.com/prodserv/fuels/bulletin/diesel/L2_5_fs.htm Either way you slice it diesel has a higher specific energy content then avgas. In a hypothetical aircraft with all variables equal except fuel, a tank of diesel fuel will take you farther than an a tank of avgas. Cheveron has an excellent web site detailing all you could ever want to know about fuels. Chris Stone Newberg, OR RV-8 Wings... forever -----Original Message----- From: Todd Bartrim <haywire(at)telus.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel ...But, while diesel has more energy per volume than gasoline, it has less energy per weight. So for performance reasons it's not as good, but for endurance reasons it's better. I'd love to be able to burn diesel in my rotary engine. Todd Bartrim RV9Endurance 13B Turbo Rotary C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do." -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Subject: RE: RV-List: Diesel > >- Diesel is heavier than 100LL. According to Chevron/Texaco, their diesel is >6.76 lb/gal compared to 5.8 lb/gal for 100LL - ~15% heavier. That's 49lbs of >extra weight for full tanks. But, diesel fuel has more energy per gallon too, so it's like you get bigger gas tanks without having to make the mod yourself. And the diesel engine burns less weight fuel to make the same amount of power. So even if you put the same weight diesel fuel as you would get with full tanks of gasoline, you can fly further with diesel power than with gasoline. The higher density is a plus, not a minus. You don't need to fill the tanks all the way up if you don't want to. -- Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://go.phpwebhosting.com/~khorton/rv8/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 Seats
Date: Oct 26, 2004
I second the idea of checking out Abby Erdmann at Flightline Interiors...my RV6A Oregon Aero seats that she upholstered are about as perfect as anyone could make them...absolutely superb work. John at Salida, CO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Wenzel, MSCD" <todd.wenzel@wenzel-software.com> Subject: RV-List: RV8 Seats > <todd.wenzel@wenzel-software.com> > > Mickey, > I HAVE -8 seats from Abby as does Gert V. who is also on this list. We > were > the first two -8's that Abby made and believe me when I tell you, she did > an > incredible job. I would HIGHLY recommend contacting her for your seats. > She > did a fantastic custom embroidered "Stars & Bars" design on my seats to go > with the military paint scheme. I'm not flying yet, but when I want to > relax, I crawl up into the -8 and fall asleep in the seats - the only > technical problem I have is how to get the recliner feet-support to swing > up > free of the rudder pedals! ;>) > > Todd Wenzel > Delafield, WI > RV-8A, Finish Kit > N900TW (reserved) > > > Let me put in my two cents worth Mickey. I just had Abby do a complete > interior for my recently completed 9A. I can tell you that her work > is as > advertised and attested to by those of us who have bought her > interiors. > Even after all the build up, I was still shocked at the quality and > completeness of her pieces when I opened the box. I've heard great > things > about Becki O. too, but there's more work to do with hers. All of > Abby's > stuff is precut, even the foam for under the floor matting! And it > fits > perfectly! Thanks Abby, you're a pro! > Chuck Weyant N8058V > RV9A --- 30 hours! > > > Hi Mickey, Yes, we do make the seats for the RV8, I haven't had a > chance > > to update the website. Let me know if you have any other > questions. > > Thank you, Abby > > Flightline Interiors > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: RV8 seats > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Anyone have some suggestions of people that make > > > RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline > > > interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, > > > according to their website. I've got a set of > > > the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll > > > use those. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mickey > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Traffic alerter
Date: Oct 26, 2004
I've flown with one in a couple of planes and found them to be more of a distraction than they were worth. In busy (NY) airspace the woman's voice was continually calling "traffic". But since these devices offer no heading and limited altitude info, it was allerting constantly. One flight I did from Bremerton WA to Bridgeport CT was in a plane with a traffic allerting system. It was more of the same. Such a distraction, I turned it off. I'm not anti technology. I also am aware that a good set of eyeballs is woefully inadequate in busy airspace. Espescially since most mid-airs involve overtaking aircraft and I have no say in who creams me from behind. With that said, when I do my IFR panel upgrades, I'll install a single 430 and the garmin Mode S Xponder. Presently when flying through busy airspace, I get VFR flight following. Don ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: re: RV8 seats
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Mick, I think you are mistaken. I worked with Abby at flightline to develop templates for my '4 and she continually made references to the '8 seats. Also, she has photos of '8 seats on her web site. She doesn't identify them as such, but thats what they are. Give Abby a call. She is GREAT to work with and puts out a really great product at a reasonable price. Best regards, Don Mei ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Too many lists?
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote: > >I hadn't really paid that much attention to it but now that you mention >it I don't recall ever seeing any results from the Yahoo Groups. Hmmm, >let's try to figure out why that would be... > Why that is is simple, to view some yahoo group message archives you have to be a member of the group, google doesn't crawl the web and create a user account for every online group. I'm not even sure it could if it wanted to. With out doing that it can't view the archives of those groups where the archive isn't public. However I know some of the Yahoo rv lists have public archives. I did a search for "RV-7 makes sense or lower price" which I knew was on a yahoo group because I just looked and google found the site. But it only seems to find stuff due to what is in the subject of the message. That could be because of the robots.txt files settings Yahoo has setup. Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV8 Seats
Hi John, Thanks for your note. I've gotten *a lot* of similar feedback. What would be great is to see some pictures! :-) Best regards, Mickey >I second the idea of checking out Abby Erdmann at Flightline Interiors...my >RV6A Oregon Aero seats that she upholstered are about as perfect as anyone >could make them...absolutely superb work. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Sam Buchanan wrote: > >Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > >> >> >>List, >> >>I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses or >>roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit Racing. >>Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've >>been there done that... >> >> > > >Been there, done that, but not sure I can shed much light on your >excellent question. The hoses on my RV-6 have been in service for over >five years, have not had any problems, and they still look like new. I >fabricated them from Aeroquip fittings and hose purchased from a local >speed shop and the cost was far below that of "real airplane hoses". The >hoses were pressure tested prior to being installed. I also made the >hoses for the remote oil and fuel pressure senders. > >However, I am now faced with the question of whether or not, or when, to >replace these hoses. Do I make a preemptive strike and replace them >after five years in service > That's the recommended replacement interval. > or wait until some sort of issue arises with >them? > OOOh! Can we spell 'emergency'??? Well, with rubber-lined hoses, the liner gets brittle and when we move the hose (sometime down the road) during maintenance etc. the liner cracks, comes loose, and can block oil passages and other necessary items. I don't think the teflon-lined hoses are as susceptable to the cracking/flaking off, but I'd rather not be the one to find out. Hose is cheap and the aeroquip fittings are reuseable. Buy the mandrels and do the job right (Aircraft Spruce catalog has a great page on making hoses with aeroquip fittings) or if you're really in a bind, use the shank of a twist drill in place of the mandrel. You have to screw a straight fitting into the nut if you use the drill bit method. You must use one or the other to prevent the fitting from cutting into the liner and creating the problems above. > I don't know. Guess it will depend on when I reach the point that >I am tired of thinking about the old hoses. > Hopefully that's before you eexperience an off-field landing. I've had two, but neither caused by hoses ..... so far! > I have seen cases where >"real airplane hoses" experienced problems so I doubt there are any >perfect hoses.... > I guess that's why they recommend replacing every 5 years. >So, in regards to your question, properly fabricated (make sure you know >how to properly install the fittings and have the hoses tested) Aeroquip >hoses will work just fine and you can save some money while building >hoses that exactly fit your application. > Absolutely! Great advice! > Are the Aeroquip hoses the best >way to go? I don't know. This is probably one of those issues like >primer, fixed vs CS, tip-up vs slider, etc, that is surrounded by >swirling opinions but where you ultimately must make a decision based on >your best judgment and comfort level. > I like the Aeroquip hoses (make 'em myself with the mandrels) because I can reuse the fittings, and myhoses are all the right length. Linn > >Sam Buchanan >http://thervjournal.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject:
Date: Oct 26, 2004
I received two responses, thanks Fred Stucklen and Jim Sears. Maybe I don't need cooling... But, I installed used stuff that's not the most modern. Here it is: Collins 250 series nav/com w/ glide slope, kx155 nav/com, king audio panel (new), Narco transponder (old). I'm thinking the Collins generate most of the heat so I put them above the KX155 in the stack. Since I started flying, the Collins com quite working at 5 hours. The receiver on the King KX155 stopped working on the last flight at 30 hours. Excessive heat? What does everyone think? And oh, does anyone have a good used Collins 250 (or maybe its a 350, I can't remember for sure) series com they'd sell cheap? Chuck Weyant Santa Maria, CA RV9A 30hours Subject: Re: RV-List: Avionics cooling > Chuck, > > I've done this successfully, but there are some constraints. > First, be sure NOT to use Van's corrugated 1" tubing. It whistles when air > goes through it, and that will drive you nuts whiles flying. Ask me how I > know..... 1" Scat tubing works much better.... > Second, you need to have some sort of water separation device in the air > supply. If you don't, you will get water into your radios when flying > through rain. I've successfully used a water bottle, with the cap facing > downward so it can be drained. 1" hose was inserted through the sides and > held in place with proseal. > Third, the air pickup point I used was just inside the NACA vent high on > the 2" tubing running up to the air vent. You need a high pickup point - the > top of the tube - to further eliminate the possibility of getting water into > the system.... Some will still get in, mainly particulates in the air > supply, so you still need the water separator.... > Hope that helps..... > > Fred Stucklen > RV-6A #2 N926RV > 300 Hrs in 14 months..... > > > Has anyone out there used a blast tube from the naca fresh air vents to cool > their avionics stack? What's the good and the bad --- from experience > please, not conjecture. I've installed a small fan from a computer and > directed it at the radio stack but I don't think it's doing the job of > cooling, especially when I've got the heater vent on. I've checked the > archives and found seven listings, none which answer my question. Chuck > Weyant RV9A --- 32 hours and loving it!!! > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Hi all, I put Aeroquip hoses in my RV6a with O-360. I got the Aeroquip made lifetime teflon hoses with built in molded firesleeve. They look very neat and should surely last my remaining lifetime if not that of the aircraft. I got both oil hoses and one fuel hose. The downside is that they cost about $80 each! Hoses are a weak link in any system in my rather experienced opinion. I've had hoses fail on my cars, on customer's cars when I had my MG dealership and I've seen many failures in my experience in the forest products industry. I have had two incidents of brake hose failures on my cars. Radiator hoses really ought to be changed at least every five years. Often, logging machinery would be down while someone ran to town for a hydraulic hose. So, I went for the best which I don't often do. Hal Kempthorne RV6a K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Diesel
I would be pretty wary of Diamond's "marketing" claims of their performance with the Twinstar when they took it back to Europe. I've seen the claim too, but I've noticed that they stated performance in ground speed, not air speed, and they never specified the wind conditions. I bet they had a heck of a tail wind! I do believe this plane is very efficient, but just beware of marketing claims designed to spark interest in a product, especially when all of the facts aren't given. Skylor --- Scott Jackson wrote: > Apparently the TwinStar, on the way back to Europe, > had its diesels dialled > back to less than 3 gallons-an-hour each, still > putting out respectable > power and cruising speed. __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marty" <martorious(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Chuck, Do you have pics of the water separator/water bottle setup? Marty > Chuck, > > I've done this successfully, but there are some constraints. > First, be sure NOT to use Van's corrugated 1" tubing. It whistles when air > goes through it, and that will drive you nuts whiles flying. Ask me how I > know..... 1" Scat tubing works much better.... > Second, you need to have some sort of water separation device in the air > supply. If you don't, you will get water into your radios when flying > through rain. I've successfully used a water bottle, with the cap facing > downward so it can be drained. 1" hose was inserted through the sides and > held in place with proseal. > Third, the air pickup point I used was just inside the NACA vent high on > the 2" tubing running up to the air vent. You need a high pickup point - the > top of the tube - to further eliminate the possibility of getting water into > the system.... Some will still get in, mainly particulates in the air > supply, so you still need the water separator.... > Hope that helps..... > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob 1" <rv3a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
Date: Oct 26, 2004
> I haven't tried this yet, but guys at my airport suggested using that tire > stop leak that comes in a spray can. Supposed to make aircraft tubes stop > leaking down so fast. Might work! > > Richard Scott > 9A Emp Spray can goop works as advertized for TUBELESS tires, AFAIK. SLIME Tire Sealant states on the front of the container... *** for TUBLESS tires *** Bob - good luck sealing tubes, balancing, etcetera. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Hal, Is there any sort of weight savings using these hoses with the "built in" fire sleeve? Charlie Kuss > > >Hi all, > >I put Aeroquip hoses in my RV6a with O-360. I got the Aeroquip made >lifetime teflon hoses with built in molded firesleeve. They look very >neat and should surely last my remaining lifetime if not that of the >aircraft. I got both oil hoses and one fuel hose. The downside is that >they cost about $80 each! > >Hoses are a weak link in any system in my rather experienced >opinion. I've had hoses fail on my cars, on customer's cars when I had my >MG dealership and I've seen many failures in my experience in the forest >products industry. I have had two incidents of brake hose failures on my >cars. Radiator hoses really ought to be changed at least every five >years. Often, logging machinery would be down while someone ran to town >for a hydraulic hose. So, I went for the best which I don't often do. > >Hal Kempthorne > >RV6a > > >K. H. (Hal) Kempthorne >RV6-a N7HK - Three trips to OSH now. >PRB (El Paso de Robles, CA) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: VFT(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
I talked to the Aeroquip rep at Sun-N-fun and was told the Teflon hose does not have an unlimited service life only an unlimited shelf life. He recommended 5 years replacement firewall forward and 7 years max in service. -- Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Electric vs Vac
Date: Oct 26, 2004
With many now going total electric and looking for a back up. Has anyone tried using a vacume attitude indicator driven only by the intake manifold vacume such as the stand by systems when a pump fails. I guess the only savings would be the pump. Any thoughts?? John RV6A Removing Vac Sys for Dynon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Jerry, I made up the hoses for my firewall mounted oil cooler using parts from Vans. One of the original hoses would have worked, but I messed it up trying to shorten it and reuse the fitting. These fittings are not reusable. It is almost impossible to get the rubber out of the fitting after you take the fitting apart. Ask Vans for the instruction sheet when you order the fittings. If you are careful you can make your own with a high degree of confidence that they're right. As for testing the hoses after fabrication, here is what I did. I modified a bottle jack by drilling and tapping for a 1/4 inch pipe thread in the base of it. I took the jack apart to do this, so it is not a trivial job, but certainly doable. I capped off the hose, and filled the jack and hose with motor oil. Also had a 1000 psi gauge teed into the system. Had to block the jack so the piston wouldn't extend. Took each hose up to 1000 psi for about a half hour and looked for leaks. Had none, and haven't had any on the airplane either. Hope this helps, Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Has flown great since -- well, right out of the box. Got a 2nd opinion from an experienced RVer to be sure I wasn't deluding myself! 61 hours now.) In a message dated 10/26/04 2:08:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com writes: > > > List, > > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses > or > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit Racing. > > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've > been there done that... > > Jerry Cochran > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: Putting Air In Tires...
I posted earlier that the extension should be about 3 inches. That's not long enough. Just went to my local NAPA store and got their part no. 90-314 which is a 4 7/16 inch chrome plated brass extension for truck and bus use. This cost about $11, but it is a real beauty, made in Italy. The ID on the extension says Schrader 4820. It will fit through a 7/16 inch hole. I know this horse is getting flogged to death, but thought this information may be worthwhile. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Jim Would you mind clarifying please. On the top of your web site page it says 'LYCOMING O-360 MT PROPELLER' and then it goes on to say 'any Lycoming 360 engine'. Can it be used on both the O-360 and IO-360 as they have a different harmonic signatures? Regards Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: <LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank > > > If you are considering the 360 non-counterbalanced angle valve Lycoming > with > a CS prop, there is a RPM restriction for continuos operation in the > range > between 2000 and 2300 RPM. Sometimes there is an allowance for operation > in > the area below a certain manifold pressure. This is a propeller and > engine > combination restriction. > > MT Propeller has designed a 2 blade aluminum blade CS propeller that does > not have this RPM restriction. It is specifically designed for the > Lycoming > 360 engine with the non-counterweighted crankshaft and the RV series > aircraft. > > Additional information for this propeller is on my website at > _www.lessdrag.com/lycomingpropeller.html_ > (http://www.lessdrag.com/lycomingpropeller.html) > > Jim Ayers > Less Drag Products, Inc. > > > In a message dated 10/25/2004 11:59:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us > Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > > What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced > angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this > combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these > little > things! :-) > > Kathleen Evans > www.rv7.us > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List:
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Chuck, The main reason not to use outside air for electronics cooling is the fact you will pick up moisture and blow it on the radio's :-(((((. Just blow cabin air on the radio's to carry away the heat. I used a small axial fan from my local R.S. and hooked it up to the main bus. It ran all the time and pulled very little power. Keeping the radio's cooler means many years of life before failure. Heat is the killer. Jim Nelson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re: Electric vs Vac
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
John, Back up with another electrical device. If you mean power source, your battery should be adequate enough for at least one hour on your emergency bus. If you check Bob Nuckols's advice on batterys, checking them yearly and replacing them when they don't have the capacity for the emergency run. Most people run their battery untill it won't start the engine. At that point, the battery is way past it ability to handle an emergency. Jim Nelson RV9-A QB (arriving next friday- :-))))) ) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "van Bladeren, Ron" <rwv(at)nwnatural.com>
Subject: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Another good hose tester is your standard grease gun. Just remove the zerk nozzle, screw on a T fitting, screw a gauge to the center T leg and suitable adapters and your test hose to the through fitting. Hold the whole mess vertical by the far end of the hose, fill with hydraulic fluid, cap and pump away. You can get up to 3000 psi if need be. Ron. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses Jerry, I made up the hoses for my firewall mounted oil cooler using parts from Vans. One of the original hoses would have worked, but I messed it up trying to shorten it and reuse the fitting. These fittings are not reusable. It is almost impossible to get the rubber out of the fitting after you take the fitting apart. Ask Vans for the instruction sheet when you order the fittings. If you are careful you can make your own with a high degree of confidence that they're right. As for testing the hoses after fabrication, here is what I did. I modified a bottle jack by drilling and tapping for a 1/4 inch pipe thread in the base of it. I took the jack apart to do this, so it is not a trivial job, but certainly doable. I capped off the hose, and filled the jack and hose with motor oil. Also had a 1000 psi gauge teed into the system. Had to block the jack so the piston wouldn't extend. Took each hose up to 1000 psi for about a half hour and looked for leaks. Had none, and haven't had any on the airplane either. Hope this helps, Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Has flown great since -- well, right out of the box. Got a 2nd opinion from an experienced RVer to be sure I wasn't deluding myself! 61 hours now.) In a message dated 10/26/04 2:08:51 AM US Eastern Standard Time, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com writes: > > > List, > > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses > or > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit Racing. > > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've > been there done that... > > Jerry Cochran > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: traffic warning scopes
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Kim, I've been flying a Surecheck VRX in my Navion since buying it at Oshkosh this year. I'm very pleased with it and have gained a lot of confidence in its readings. I fly out of DWH, a busy tower-controlled field under Houston's Class B so I see a lot of traffic. I don't know if the VRX alert logic is significantly better than anyone else's but I only get flooded with traffic calls when I'm in the pattern. I normally keep the watch bubble at the default of 5mi/5000ft. When it displays traffic it really is there but it's amazing to me how seldom other planes show up once away from airports. Even though it doesn't display direction, by keeping the display in my scan I get a good sense of the target direction from the changes. When it finally alerts, I've either already acquired it or know about where to look. I really like the altitude display and it's always been spot on. It saves a lot of heartburn if you know the guy is above or below and whether he's level or not. There are some annoyances: The form factor is awkward. My glareshield is even narrower than the RVs and it wants the antenna to be vertical. I've made peace with it but it's cumbersome. It works on signal strength so targets below and behind get blocked somewhat. The audio volume goes back to max on power up. And of course there are the power and audio cables flopping around. I could solve all but the audio volume by panel mounting it with split antennas on top and bottom. I'd do that in a heartbeat on an RV and may yet on the Navion. Would I rather have TCAS or TIS? Sure, but they're not in the budget right now. It may not suit everyone but after a close encounter of the aluminum kind out in the middle of nowhere, it works for me. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > In this very busy Seattle airspace, I am considering an > in-cockpit traffic warning scope. I have checked several > suppliers and there are 2 manufactures on the market. Does > anyone have any experience with these units? Good and/or bad? > > Thanks! > > Kim Nicholas > RV9A - flying. 13 hours > Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Steve Slayden <steve_slayden(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Airparks...
Bill, I live in Carrollton - next to Plano. I'm the guy that exchanged wingtips with Rick who I think hangers next to you. I have a hanger out at Northwest Regional, 52F. There are a number of RVers here, but it's quite a hike from North Dallas. Addison is expensive and annoying dealing with the traffic. TKI is a little better about the traffic and cost, I think. Denton is a good alternative (not as busy or costly) but further out. I like 52F because it's a private airport that is not too busy but has some activity and RV builders. It's about a 45 minute commute from north Carrollton to 52F. I think the going rate for a T hanger is $250/mo. The guy to call here is John Shackelford 817-430-0666. Airparks... affordable... Dallas area... Nope. There are some hanger/homes for sale here. One I know about is selling for $275k. What brings you to the area? Bill VonDane wrote: Anyone living in or around Plano, TX know of any hangar space available and the costs... Also, anyone know of any airparks in the area that are affordable? -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Subject: Re:Valve stem caps
I saw a solution to valve caps on one of these sites. Just use a 3/16 nut driver to wedge onto the cap to remove or install. No chasing tubing or building. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Too many lists?
If you want my opinion, and I'm sure you don't, none of the solutions talked about are worth any more than the current RV list. I'm not saying the Matronics lists are perfect but the phpbbs isn't any better. I have used them plenty before and I'm not impressed. I am at a loss as to what formating features they have that are desirable. I can't think of anything they can do that can't be done with any modern email client. The one HUGE disadvantage the web forums have is there is no easy way to save messages you really are interested in on your own computer. Now let me debunk some of the supposed disadvantages to email lists. And propose the BEST solution that no one has mentioned yet. Can't be sorted by thread or date. You really need to learn how to use your email software. No easy way to include images or files. This is not a limitation of email lists. The Matronics lists don't allow attachments but that could be changed and I think it would be a good thing personally but I don't think it is that big of a deal. Categorization: That is only as good as the ability of submitters to put a relevant subject on their postings. Also every email client I have used allows you to put messages in to a broad range of folders to categorize them. Lots of messages flooding your in box: I belong to LOTS of mailing lists from RV building to Database design and not one email sent to any of those lists I subscribe to ends up in my in box. I set up filters so messages from each list goes to it's own folder. Again learn how to use your email software. Searching function: once again learn how to use your email software. Web browsing and searching archives: Ever hear of google? If you really want something better than the Matronics lists then the best thing to do is start a new News Group. They have been around since the dawn of time (ok slight exaggeration :) They offer everything email lists have, and google maintains the searchable archive for free. If you want to save a message you can use your email client to save it in a local folder. No need for anyone to maintain a server, archive or list of subscribers. It's simple and there is easily enough Internet RVers to get a news group going. All that said I can't see any reason why the Matronics lists aren't all you could want except for maybe attaching photos to messages. But you can do that in a round about way through the photo share. For me it's just easier to put photos up on a web server and include a link to them in my messages. Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Date: Oct 26, 2004
I spent a lot of money on my hoses and definitely feel better when Im up high. I just didnt think the cost savings here was worth the fire risk. Just my opinion. Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 140 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > > List, > > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses > or > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit > Racing. > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've > been there done that... > > Jerry Cochran > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
>> >>Another good hose tester is your standard grease gun. Also, you can test all your hoses at once by simply connecting them together with some spare fittings. Doug Gray ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Electric vs Vac
Date: Oct 26, 2004
The trouble with manifold vacuum is that it goes away when you reduce power. I guess you could hang a venturi on the side of the airplane as they used to do or hinge one so you could swing it into the slipstream when you need it. Sounds heavy, complicated and draggy to me. Back up electric power can be done several different ways and can be much more reliable than vacuum. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Furey Subject: RV-List: Electric vs Vac >With many now going total electric and looking for a back up. Has anyone tried using a vacume attitude indicator driven only by the intake manifold vacume such as the stand by systems when a pump fails. I guess the only savings would be the pump. Any thoughts?? John RV6A Removing Vac Sys for Dynon = = = = ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: re: RV8 seats
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Abby or those that know, what is the composition of the foamy part of the seat? How are they made prior to putting on the exterior covering? -------------- Original message -------------- > > Mick, > > I think you are mistaken. I worked with Abby at flightline to develop > templates for my '4 and she continually made references to the '8 seats. > > Also, she has photos of '8 seats on her web site. She doesn't identify them > as such, but thats what they are. > > Give Abby a call. She is GREAT to work with and puts out a really great > product at a reasonable price. > > Best regards, > > Don Mei > > > > > > Abby or those that know, what is the composition of the foamy part of the seat? How are they made prior to putting on the exterior covering? -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Donald Mei" Mick, I think you are mistaken. I worked with Abby at flightline to develop templates for my '4 and she continually made references to the '8 seats. Also, she has photos of '8 seats on her web site. She doesn't identify them as such, but thats what they are. Give Abby a call. She is GREAT to work with and puts out a really great product at a reasonable price. Best regards, Don Mei er see banner ads or any other com/rv-list ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Electric vs Vac
For backup vacuum, I was wondering if you couldn't take an old venturi tube, cut it up and put the out put from a third, or one of the existing, NACA ducts to the inlet of the venture. Then rig up some kind of shut off valve. Wouldn't that make for clean installation with very little drag when it wasn't in use? Maybe rig it up so the air exited near by in case you were flying in rain or very cold conditions and didn't want that air in the cabin. Just an idea. Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 26, 2004
With all due respect I do not believe Wayne's blanket statement below is correct. The Hartzell CY2L-1BF constant speed propeller in combination with an O-320 engine (which is non-counterweighted) is not RPM restricted other than a maximum of 2700 RPM. Van's parts catalogs and the operating manuals received with this propeller both indicate no restricted range RPM limits. The type certificate data sheet (P920) also includes no restricted range RPM limitations. A call to Hartzell tech support also confirmed the above. The Hartzell tech support rep indicated there were many factors other than whether or not a crankshaft is counterweighted that determine restricted prop RPM ranges. He also cautioned that their limitations or lack thereof applied to standard configuration engines only. Dick Sipp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > Kathleen > > All constant speed propeller manufacturers, both metal and composite, with > the exception of Aero Composites, state that with a non counterweighted > crankshaft you must not run the engine continuously in the 2000-2300 rpm > range. > > Wayne Glasser > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > >> >> What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced >> angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this >> combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these >> little >> things! :-) >> >> Kathleen Evans >> www.rv7.us >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Dick Missing information, I was talking about -360 lycomings. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > With all due respect I do not believe Wayne's blanket statement below is > correct. > > The Hartzell CY2L-1BF constant speed propeller in combination with an > O-320 > engine (which is non-counterweighted) is not RPM restricted other than a > maximum of 2700 RPM. > > Van's parts catalogs and the operating manuals received with this > propeller > both indicate no restricted range RPM limits. The type certificate data > sheet (P920) also includes no restricted range RPM limitations. A call to > Hartzell tech support also confirmed the above. The Hartzell tech support > rep indicated there were many factors other than whether or not a > crankshaft > is counterweighted that determine restricted prop RPM ranges. He also > cautioned that their limitations or lack thereof applied to standard > configuration engines only. > > Dick Sipp > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > >> >> Kathleen >> >> All constant speed propeller manufacturers, both metal and composite, >> with >> the exception of Aero Composites, state that with a non counterweighted >> crankshaft you must not run the engine continuously in the 2000-2300 rpm >> range. >> >> Wayne Glasser >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> >> To: >> Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank >> >> >>> >>> What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced >>> angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this >>> combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these >>> little >>> things! :-) >>> >>> Kathleen Evans >>> www.rv7.us >>> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________ RV-8 list
From: Ed OConnor <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com>
Subject: Unknown part
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Was cleaning out a corner of my shop and found a part labeled (WH 801) Cannot find it on my plans and wonder where it goes. Any one have any idea? My wings are done and I don't think I'm missing any parts but I've thought that before. RV-8/N366RV/Panama City Fl ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
Date: Oct 27, 2004
If you look up the TCDS (P-920) http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library%5CrgMakeModel.nsf/0/C459056338A0F90A86256D600050815A?OpenDocument you will find that the prop Van's sells for the O-320 with the standard 7663 blades has no restricted or limited RPM and a redline of 2,800 RPM. My two favorite RPM settings are 2,100 and 2,300. When I cruise single ship or as lead of a flight, I typically cruise at 2,300 RPM burning 7 GPH. KTAS is typically 150-160. Have 1,604 flying hours in 7 years doing this. 10 trips across the US including the Bahamas. As far north as Fort Yukon Alaska north of the Arctic Circle. Have test flown at 2,800 RPM (3 turns on the prop governor stop). Top speed did not change but ROC was better at LOW airspeeds (65 KIAS). Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,604 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 21:26:32 -0400 With all due respect I do not believe Wayne's blanket statement below is correct. The Hartzell CY2L-1BF constant speed propeller in combination with an O-320 engine (which is non-counterweighted) is not RPM restricted other than a maximum of 2700 RPM. Van's parts catalogs and the operating manuals received with this propeller both indicate no restricted range RPM limits. The type certificate data sheet (P920) also includes no restricted range RPM limitations. A call to Hartzell tech support also confirmed the above. The Hartzell tech support rep indicated there were many factors other than whether or not a crankshaft is counterweighted that determine restricted prop RPM ranges. He also cautioned that their limitations or lack thereof applied to standard configuration engines only. Dick Sipp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > Kathleen > > All constant speed propeller manufacturers, both metal and composite, with > the exception of Aero Composites, state that with a non counterweighted > crankshaft you must not run the engine continuously in the 2000-2300 rpm > range. > > Wayne Glasser > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > >> >> What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced >> angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this >> combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these >> little >> things! :-) >> >> Kathleen Evans >> www.rv7.us >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Electric vs Vac
Uuh... There are certainly troubles with manifold vacuum as an alternate source for vacuum instruments, but that isn't one of them. Reducing power increases manifold vacuum - not decreases it. Dick Tasker. Ed Holyoke wrote: > >The trouble with manifold vacuum is that it goes away when you reduce >power. I guess you could hang a venturi on the side of the airplane as >they used to do or hinge one so you could swing it into the slipstream >when you need it. Sounds heavy, complicated and draggy to me. Back up >electric power can be done several different ways and can be much more >reliable than vacuum. > >Pax, > >Ed Holyoke > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karie Daniel" <karie4(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Unknown part
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Only things listed on "The List" starting with WH are; WH SM35-1/2-9X0.75P15 SHRINK LABEL P15 WH-P10 #2 ELEC.CABLE 15.25" $10.08 WH-P11 #2 ELEC.CABLE 34.25" $17.52 WH-P15 #2 ELEC.CABLE 15.75" $10.17 WH-P16 #2 ELEC.CABLE 30" $8.35 WH-P17 #2 ELEC.CABLE 37.25" $19.25 WH-P18 #2 ELEC.CABLE 15.25" $10.08 WH-P19 #2 ELEC.CABLE 9.25" $7.81 WH-P4 #2 ELEC.CABLE 127.25" $38.00 WH-P4F #2 ELEC.CABLE 7.75" $7.13 WH-P5 #2 ELEC.CABLE 11" $8.35 WH-P6 #2 ELEC.CABLE 11.75" $8.72 Did this come with a landing light kit or something? What does it look like? Karie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed OConnor" <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com> Subject: RV-List: Unknown part > > Was cleaning out a corner of my shop and found a part labeled (WH 801) > Cannot find it on my plans and wonder where it goes. Any one have any > idea? My wings are done and I don't think I'm missing any parts but > I've thought that before. > > RV-8/N366RV/Panama City Fl > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Date: Oct 26, 2004
I rolled my own from Earl's products. I had them pressure tested at an aircraft shop. They still leaked. One time it was fuel while still on the ground. (This was from the person who bought my airplane.) Could have been a real problem. He replaced everything with aviation hoses. Next airplane will have nothing but aviation lines and hoses. Period. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > I spent a lot of money on my hoses and definitely feel better when Im up > high. I just didnt think the cost savings here was worth the fire risk. > Just my opinion. > > Jeff Dowling > RV-6A, N915JD > 140 hours > Chicago/Louisville > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > > > > > > > List, > > > > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil hoses > > or > > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit > > Racing. > > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those who've > > been there done that... > > > > Jerry Cochran > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: "Stan Jones" <stan.jones(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Counterweighted Crank
I too am at the stage of picking an engine prop combo. I contacted Hartzell and got this reply. I am sure others have used this combo, so what do you experts think. Dan used something very similar. Is Hartzell just covering it's arse. I am very discouraged. Stan Jones. N.Z. -------Original Message------- From: rv-list(at)matronics.com Date: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 15:08:10 Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank Dick Missing information, I was talking about -360 lycomings. Wayne ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > With all due respect I do not believe Wayne's blanket statement below is > correct. > > The Hartzell CY2L-1BF constant speed propeller in combination with an > O-320 > engine (which is non-counterweighted) is not RPM restricted other than a > maximum of 2700 RPM. > > Van's parts catalogs and the operating manuals received with this > propeller > both indicate no restricted range RPM limits. The type certificate data > sheet (P920) also includes no restricted range RPM limitations. A call to > Hartzell tech support also confirmed the above. The Hartzell tech support > rep indicated there were many factors other than whether or not a > crankshaft > is counterweighted that determine restricted prop RPM ranges. He also > cautioned that their limitations or lack thereof applied to standard > configuration engines only. > > Dick Sipp > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank > > >> >> Kathleen >> >> All constant speed propeller manufacturers, both metal and composite, >> with >> the exception of Aero Composites, state that with a non counterweighted >> crankshaft you must not run the engine continuously in the 2000-2300 rpm >> range. >> >> Wayne Glasser >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <Kathleen(at)rv7.us> >> To: >> Subject: RV-List: Counterweighted Crank >> >> >>> >>> What differences or problems should I expect with a non-counterbalanced >>> angle valve Lycoming with a CS prop? Anybody have experience with this >>> combo? I am getting very close to my engine choice, but it's these >>> little >>> things! :-) >>> >>> Kathleen Evans >>> www.rv7.us >>> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2004
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
If they leaked it was from they way they were put together not because they were Earl's. Paul Besing wrote: > >I rolled my own from Earl's products. I had them pressure tested at an >aircraft shop. They still leaked. One time it was fuel while still on the >ground. (This was from the person who bought my airplane.) Could have been >a real problem. He replaced everything with aviation hoses. > >Next airplane will have nothing but aviation lines and hoses. Period. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A Sold >RV-10 Soon >http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing >Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software >http://www.kitlog.com > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > > > >> >>I spent a lot of money on my hoses and definitely feel better when Im up >>high. I just didnt think the cost savings here was worth the fire risk. >>Just my opinion. >> >>Jeff Dowling >>RV-6A, N915JD >>140 hours >>Chicago/Louisville >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com> >>To: >>Subject: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses >> >> >> >> >>> >>> >>>List, >>> >>>I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil >>> >>> >hoses > > >>>or >>>roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit >>>Racing. >>>Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those >>> >>> >who've > > >>>been there done that... >>> >>>Jerry Cochran >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Wing root fairings
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Now that I know I can use the flat aluminum wing root fairings, does anybody have any info on performance? I saw one post that said stall speed could go up to 70 just by leaving off the rubber seal, and to 100 by omitting the fairings completely. Have these results been documented? Can anyone explain exactly why this occurs? Steve Zicree RV4, wrestling with canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Michael Duran <mgdurand(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Diesel
First of all, thanks to listers for their considered responses regarding my post on diesel, and for the list discussion. I'm quite decided on diesel; in fact a large reason I decided to build is so that I could run the engine of my choice, and my choice is to run diesel based on endurance and efficiency, and the possibility of using biodiesel as a fuel. Obviously if Delta Hawk is not ready by the time I hang an engine, and if the two European choices are not selling to homebuilders, then I won't use it. I'd probably put a Gas in there, probably an IO360. That is probably 1.5-2 years away (I'm on wings, but cookin') and I figure that DH should have at least a few flying examples out there by then - we'll see. In any case, the alternative would be to buy a used gas, just to provide a little more time for the diesel to develop, if necessary. But ultimately I do hope to get a workable and safe diesel flying at some point. So again, and this is for the archives, if there is anyone out there planning to run a diesel engine in their RV, particularly if you live in the Northwest, please drop me a line so we can share notes. As someone mentioned, experimental aircraft means experimental, and experiments usually work better in collaberation than solo. Thanks, Michael Duran ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Nebr RV-8" <nebrrv8(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Lasik Surgery and Mono-vision
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Hi Guys, Got a friend that has had Lasik surgery with one eye corrected far and the other near. Are there any doctors out there that know the vision requirements for a third class medical? My friend would love to fly but is the FAA going to nix it? Thanks in advance for the help. Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: valve caps
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
SNIP ***********I saw a solution to valve caps on one of these sites. Just use a 3/16 nut driver to wedge onto the cap to remove or install. No chasing tubing or building. Bob SNIP ****************** But won't your nutdriver set be one short? And doesn't a nut driver cost more than a scrap rod and a piece of Tygon? A little bird says "Cheep, cheep, cheep, CHEAP!" :-) Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Olen Goodwin" <ogoodwin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RE: Lasik Surgery and Mono-vision
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Depends. If he can still pass the vision requirements for a third class with both eyes, it's ok. If he can correct the near vision eye to pass, it's ok. I hold a first class and deliberately have one eye a bit less corrected by lasik (left is 20/15, right is a "weak 20/20"). Sometimes I have to use a contact to pass the distant vision requirements. I'm old enough that I need near vision correction anyway, but in good light I can still read OK due to the weaker eye, and I can always see the instrument panel. I don't know the third class requirements offhand, but he will still have to pass with the required vision somehow. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nebr RV-8" <nebrrv8(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: RE: Lasik Surgery and Mono-vision > > > Hi Guys, > > Got a friend that has had Lasik surgery with one eye corrected far and > the other near. Are there any doctors out there that know the vision > requirements for a third class medical? My friend would love to fly but > is the FAA going to nix it? > > Thanks in advance for the help. > > Jack > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Electric vs Vac
In a message dated 10/26/04 7:09:49 PM US Eastern Standard Time, bicyclop(at)pacbell.net writes: > > > The trouble with manifold vacuum is that it goes away when you reduce > power. No. Manifold vacuum goes away when you increase power. Dan Hopper RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ross Mickey" <rmickey(at)ix.netcom.com>
Subject: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Date: Oct 27, 2004
I made mine own Earls, had them pressure tested and they all passed with flying colors. Ross Mickey N9PT 120 hours -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Springer Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses If they leaked it was from they way they were put together not because they were Earl's. Paul Besing wrote: > >I rolled my own from Earl's products. I had them pressure tested at an >aircraft shop. They still leaked. One time it was fuel while still on the >ground. (This was from the person who bought my airplane.) Could have been >a real problem. He replaced everything with aviation hoses. > >Next airplane will have nothing but aviation lines and hoses. Period. > >Paul Besing >RV-6A Sold >RV-10 Soon >http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing >Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software >http://www.kitlog.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bluecavu(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: Wing root fairings
In a message dated 10/27/2004 1:59:45 AM US Eastern Standard Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: > > > Now that I know I can use the flat aluminum wing root fairings, does anybody > have > any info on performance? I saw one post that said stall speed could go up to > 70 just by leaving off the rubber seal, and to 100 by omitting the fairings > completely. Have these results been documented? Can anyone explain exactly > why > this occurs? > > Steve Zicree > RV4, wrestling with canopy frame I flew for most of a summer with the rubber seal missing from the flat fairings on my -4. Didn't notice any real difference other than mabye a couple knots of top-end speed. The plane flew fine. No detectable change in stall as far as I could tell (which is to say it almost won't stall with just me in the plane -just a big mush) Your results may vary... I guess, depending on the size of the gap (mine is 1/4") there could be a flow of air up from the high pressure underneath which could somehow alter the stall characteristics. Don't know myself just exactly what the mechanics of this would be -I imagine some kind of vortex akin to the ones at the wingtip could be created. The root is the end of the wing we want to stall first for stability and control reasons, but I'm at a loss as to explain just how this small a flow of air could affect the flow patterns much over the wing -other than to create a little drag... and my experience confirms this. Now on the other hand, to fly without the root fairings at all would be a *huge* flow of air up from below -and a lot more drag. I can easily believe that would affect stall characteristics. I wouldn't attempt it. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Here are the guys I used. Herber Aircraft Service Inc. (310)322-9575 Again, they were expensive, but when I had redline oil temperature over miles of pine trees, I felt a lot better. They are realllllyy nice. I made the mistake of ordering mine with elbow fittings. I would get them with staight fittings so I can reuse them if I change. Also, they come in different colors. I ordered the same color (blue) but in hindsight, why not change colors for different fluids. Brown for oil lines, blue for fuel. I got the teflon with built in fire sleeve. Nothing is chaffing through these things anytime soon. Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 140 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > I rolled my own from Earl's products. I had them pressure tested at an > aircraft shop. They still leaked. One time it was fuel while still on > the > ground. (This was from the person who bought my airplane.) Could have > been > a real problem. He replaced everything with aviation hoses. > > Next airplane will have nothing but aviation lines and hoses. Period. > > Paul Besing > RV-6A Sold > RV-10 Soon > http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing > Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software > http://www.kitlog.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses > > >> >> >> I spent a lot of money on my hoses and definitely feel better when Im up >> high. I just didnt think the cost savings here was worth the fire risk. >> Just my opinion. >> >> Jeff Dowling >> RV-6A, N915JD >> 140 hours >> Chicago/Louisville >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com> >> To: >> Subject: RV-List: Fuel & Oil Hoses >> >> >> > >> > >> > List, >> > >> > I'm trying to decide whether to buy Van's "ready made" fuel and oil > hoses >> > or >> > roll my own from Aeroquip or Earl's Performance products thru Summit >> > Racing. >> > Looks like some savings there. Any thoughts appreciated from those > who've >> > been there done that... >> > >> > Jerry Cochran >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 55 Msgs - 10/26/04
Hi Wayne and all, The MTV-15-B/183-402 has gone through flight vibration testing to verify the propeller design for continuous operation with an unrestricted RPM range. This was done on a Lycoming O-360, and an IO-360. This was also done with electronic ignition. The MTV-15-B/183-402 is design for operation with the 180 hp and 200 hp Lycoming on aircraft operation in the same speed range as the RV series aircraft. This is a unique propeller for the Lycoming 360 non-counterweighted crankshaft engines. Of course, the Lycoming 360 counterweighted crankshaft engines do not have the midrange RPM restriction. MT Propeller is checking on any possible aerobatic restrictions on this design, based on the four possible hub lengths available for the propeller. Counterweighted blades are always preferred for (+ and - G) aerobatic flight. During maneuvers through zero G's, when the inverted oil system doesn't always "find" the oil, there can be a momentary loss of oil pressure to the propeller. With the loss of oil pressure, the counterweighted blade propeller travels to a coarse pitch (low RPM). With the loss of oil pressure, the non-counterweighted blade propeller travels to fine pitch (high RPM). This overspeeds the engine and propeller, and can be a high enough RPM that it would scrap both. Unfortunately, the MTV-15-B/183-402 blade design and blade weight does not allow the incorporation of blade counterweights. For positive G only aerobatics (sport aerobatics), there is not the need for the counterweighted blades. As long as there is no interruption of oil pressure to the propeller. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 10/26/2004 11:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank Jim Would you mind clarifying please. On the top of your web site page it says 'LYCOMING O-360 MT PROPELLER' and then it goes on to say 'any Lycoming 360 engine'. Can it be used on both the O-360 and IO-360 as they have a different harmonic signatures? Regards Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eustace Bowhay" <ebowhay(at)jetstream.net>
Subject: Fuel & Oil Lines
Date: Oct 27, 2004
A word of caution, with the tight cowlings of the RV's the lines are in a very warm environment. With the heat they harden and get brittle. I had a 601 fuel line start to weep fuel through the side of the line at around 400 hours. The fuel built up between the fire sleeve and the line so there was no visual evidence. I make sure that the routing is well clear of the exhaust system and use reusable fittings replacing the lines at 500 hours or five years whichever comes first. Eustace Bowhay Blind Bay, B.C. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Electric vs Vac
Date: Oct 26, 2004
Dean Hall had a very interesting system which used no vac pump. It had both the intake manifold source and a bernouli tube mounted between the gear legs of his RV-4. Also an automatic shuttle valve which would select whichever source had the most vacuum. He never had any problems with it. Seemed like made to order for an RV. The gyros spun up while taxiing out at high vacuum, low throttle setting, then the system probably switched to the tube at about lift off, 50K or so. The RV accelerates so fast that the gyros never had time to spin down on the take off roll! He felt the best thing was that the air was so "dirty" down there right behind the exhaust pipes that his drag penalty was negligable. Finally as a big bonus the tube was usually slobbered with oil and heated with the exhaust so icing was highly unlikely. The only down side I could see was that the crossover mechanism looked at least as heavy as a vac pump, so no weight saving. On Oct 26, 2004, at 12:34 PM, John Furey wrote: > > With many now going total electric and looking for a back up. Has > anyone > tried using a vacume attitude indicator driven only by the intake > manifold > vacume such as the stand by systems when a pump fails. I guess the > only > savings would be the pump. Any thoughts?? > > John RV6A > Removing Vac Sys for Dynon > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 55 Msgs - 10/26/04
Hi All, The only documentation so far has been my post to the list. I would prefer to not disclose the sources, due to the possible embarrassment to them. Why this occur? This is a good question. The simple answer: A gap at the wing root reduces the total wing lift, and increases the drag. The bigger the gap, the greater the impact. Stop reading here if you don't need a detailed answer. Lift. The span wise wing lift distribution is approximated by half of the lift being a rectangular lift distribution, and the other half of the lift being an elliptical lift distribution, from wingtip to wingtip. If there is a leak in the wing (like removing the rubber seal at the wing root), the lift becomes zero at this point. Now there are two lift distributions, from each wingtip to the wing root, and a smaller total lifting area. There are also the equivalent of four wingtips for the lift distribution, instead of two, with two separate rectangular and elliptical lift distribution curves. There is a larger lift component required out of the reduced span lift distribution. Since there is a fixed maximum angle of attack available from the wing, this angle of attack is reached at a high airspeed than with the wing root sealed. Drag. The normal fuselage and wing intersection combines two airflows traveling at two different velocities at the surface. (The free stream velocity is the same. The surface velocities are different due to the difference in boundary layer development along the fuselage and wing. Using the Reynolds number as a reference, the Reynolds number for the air along the fuselage is a large number, and the Reynolds number for the air at the leading edge of the wing (stagnation point) is zero.) With the rubber seal strip removed, there is a small amount of free stream air entering the wing gap. In a small enough gap, the free stream air will mix with the fuselage boundary layer air and the wing root separated air. This airflow is stopped by the forward wing bracket (tank bracket) and the wing spar, and spills out at the wing root with a vertical velocity into the free stream air. (On the RV-8 with the rubber seal strip removed, it also caused a tail buffet near the stall speed.) With the aluminum gap fairing removed, the was significantly more free stream air traveling between the wing and fuselage. The energy of this air spilling vertically out of the gap affected a large area along the fuselage and specifically along the wing root. And significantly increase the drag on the airframe. (This also effectively reduced the wing area available to produce lift.) Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 10/26/2004 11:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> Subject: RV-List: Wing root fairings Now that I know I can use the flat aluminum wing root fairings, does anybody have any info on performance? I saw one post that said stall speed could go up to 70 just by leaving off the rubber seal, and to 100 by omitting the fairings completely. Have these results been documented? Can anyone explain exactly why this occurs? Steve Zicree RV4, wrestling with canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel & Oil Hoses
I doubt it. They are probably a bit heavier. I tried to figure using weights from ACS but they don't list them. They do sell the integrated firesleeve hoses. Kuss Hal, Is there any sort of weight savings using these hoses with the "built in" fire sleeve? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 55 Msgs - 10/26/04
Date: Oct 27, 2004
I notice that your website makes a comparison between this MT prop and the Lycoming HC-C2YK-ABF/F7666A-4. Is there any plan to compare the MT to the Lycoming C2YR-1BF/F7496-2, since that is the Lycoming that most folks are interested in today. I am very interested in the MT due to the absence of restrictions, but I'd like to know how it compares to the current Lycoming. So, why don't you run out do the comparison for us - say, this afternoon? :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 55 Msgs - 10/26/04 Hi Wayne and all, The MTV-15-B/183-402 has gone through flight vibration testing to verify the propeller design for continuous operation with an unrestricted RPM range. This was done on a Lycoming O-360, and an IO-360. This was also done with electronic ignition. The MTV-15-B/183-402 is design for operation with the 180 hp and 200 hp Lycoming on aircraft operation in the same speed range as the RV series aircraft. This is a unique propeller for the Lycoming 360 non-counterweighted crankshaft engines. Of course, the Lycoming 360 counterweighted crankshaft engines do not have the midrange RPM restriction. MT Propeller is checking on any possible aerobatic restrictions on this design, based on the four possible hub lengths available for the propeller. Counterweighted blades are always preferred for (+ and - G) aerobatic flight. During maneuvers through zero G's, when the inverted oil system doesn't always "find" the oil, there can be a momentary loss of oil pressure to the propeller. With the loss of oil pressure, the counterweighted blade propeller travels to a coarse pitch (low RPM). With the loss of oil pressure, the non-counterweighted blade propeller travels to fine pitch (high RPM). This overspeeds the engine and propeller, and can be a high enough RPM that it would scrap both. Unfortunately, the MTV-15-B/183-402 blade design and blade weight does not allow the incorporation of blade counterweights. For positive G only aerobatics (sport aerobatics), there is not the need for the counterweighted blades. As long as there is no interruption of oil pressure to the propeller. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 10/26/2004 11:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank Jim Would you mind clarifying please. On the top of your web site page it says 'LYCOMING O-360 MT PROPELLER' and then it goes on to say 'any Lycoming 360 engine'. Can it be used on both the O-360 and IO-360 as they have a different harmonic signatures? Regards Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Harker" <dpharker(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Avionics
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Starting to think about avionics. Would like to hear offline--- people's firsthand experiences with Narco Mk12D+ avionics, 122D and/or Garmin GNC-300XL GPS/Comm. Interested in your thoughts on performance and value. Thanks Don Harker RV-7A Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Countersunk single lug anchor nut 6-32 needed
Hi, I need a 6-32 version of this part: MS21053-L08 It's a single lug, countersunk (dimpled), anchor nut. Does anyone know where I might be able to find it, or the specific part number? I tried searching for the obvious MS21053-L06 on google, no luck yet. Thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
rv10-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: Vegas trip
Sorry for the multiple posts (multiple lists), but I'll be in Las Vegas from Nov 2 thru 12 .... my wife likes to gamble ..... but I'd rather fly or visit an RV-10 builder !!! Anyone out there wanna take on a tourist??? I'll buy gas (or lunch etc.)!!! Linn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Dynon update
Did they mention anything about the "leaning" problem and how that fix is going? Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee WI > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: Dynon update
Date: Oct 27, 2004
nope, it never came up and honestly it didn't occur to me to ask. It sounded like a month or so ago a SW mod went out that change data sample rates or something similar to avoid an issue with engine induced frequency shock or something like that. -------------- Original message -------------- > > Did they mention anything about the "leaning" problem and how that fix > is going? > > Jeff Point > RV-6 > Milwaukee WI > > > > > > > > > > > > nope, it never came up and honestly it didn't occur to me to ask. It sounded like a month or so ago a SW mod went out that change data sample rates or something similarto avoid an issue with engine induced frequency shock or something like that. -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: Jeff Point Did they mention anything about the "leaning" problem and how that fix is going? Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee WI ================================================= ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Vegas trip
Wow 10 days of Vegas, lucky you, sounds REALLY expensive! Cant imagine being there that long. As far as something to do, might stop by the Belted Air Power guys and check out their installation (Chevy V-6). http://www.beltedair.com/ > >Sorry for the multiple posts (multiple lists), but I'll be in Las Vegas >from Nov 2 thru 12 .... my wife likes to gamble ..... but I'd rather fly >or visit an RV-10 builder !!! Anyone out there wanna take on a >tourist??? I'll buy gas (or lunch etc.)!!! >Linn > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Raymond Wallace <rawmailman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Add another Flying RV to the list
RV-4 N7015, kit number 3645, took to the air for the first time, 27 October at Great Falls, Montana. A little left wing heavy but nothing that can't be tweeked. NOW THE FUN BEGINS!!! --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re:Fuel & Oil Hoses
Thanks to all who responded, I feel I've had a good tutorial on aircraft hoses now. I talked to the fine folks at Columbia Airmotive in Troutdale, OR, and they seem to have good pricing and availability in Aeroquip so plan to go that route and fabricate myself. That way I can get exact sizing and save some $$$. Thanks also to the guy who mentioned the home-grown pressure tester made with a grease gun. What a great idea!!. Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re:Fuel & Oil Hoses
Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote: > > Thanks to all who responded, I feel I've had a good tutorial on aircraft > hoses now. I talked to the fine folks at Columbia Airmotive in Troutdale, OR, > and they seem to have good pricing and availability in Aeroquip so plan to go > that route and fabricate myself. > That way I can get exact sizing and save some $$$. Thanks also to the guy > who mentioned the home-grown pressure tester made with a grease gun. What a > great idea!!. Jerry, if you check around you should be able to find someone locally to pressure check your hoses. Most tractor and construction equipment dealers/repair shops will have the capability of checking hydraulic hoses and the cost will be minimal. Be careful if you check them yourself with a homebrew rig; several hundred pounds pressure can be destructive if it gets loose or there is a hose failure and your eyes or other valuable bits end up on the receiving end! Many shops will put the hoses in a water tank when testing them so a catastrophic failure can be contained. Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 604 hrs; guess I need to rebuild some hoses) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Listers, Any RV4 folks out there with pics or drawings or what-have-you of canopy restraint methods. The plans call for a "lanyard" but I would like something a little more aircrafty. I mean, lanyard?! What am I, a pirate? Ahoy, Steve Zicree RV4, On main gear today ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 Seats
Yeah, They're great, but.... having Abby do housecalls right at your hanger/garage for those few lucky ones...and not just once.... PRICELESS !!!!! She'll come and personally fit them for you. Gert Todd Wenzel, MSCD wrote: > > Mickey, > I HAVE -8 seats from Abby as does Gert V. who is also on this list. We were > the first two -8's that Abby made and believe me when I tell you, she did an > incredible job. I would HIGHLY recommend contacting her for your seats. She > did a fantastic custom embroidered "Stars & Bars" design on my seats to go > with the military paint scheme. I'm not flying yet, but when I want to > relax, I crawl up into the -8 and fall asleep in the seats - the only > technical problem I have is how to get the recliner feet-support to swing up > free of the rudder pedals! ;>) > > Todd Wenzel > Delafield, WI > RV-8A, Finish Kit > N900TW (reserved) > > > Let me put in my two cents worth Mickey. I just had Abby do a complete > interior for my recently completed 9A. I can tell you that her work > is as > advertised and attested to by those of us who have bought her > interiors. > Even after all the build up, I was still shocked at the quality and > completeness of her pieces when I opened the box. I've heard great > things > about Becki O. too, but there's more work to do with hers. All of > Abby's > stuff is precut, even the foam for under the floor matting! And it > fits > perfectly! Thanks Abby, you're a pro! > Chuck Weyant N8058V > RV9A --- 30 hours! > > > Hi Mickey, Yes, we do make the seats for the RV8, I haven't had a > chance > > to update the website. Let me know if you have any other questions. > > Thank you, Abby > > Flightline Interiors > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> > > To: > > Subject: RV-List: RV8 seats > > > > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > Anyone have some suggestions of people that make > > > RV8 seats and/or covers? I've tried flightline > > > interiors, but they don't seem to make RV8 seats, > > > according to their website. I've got a set of > > > the Jon Johanson seats, but I don't think I'll > > > use those. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Mickey > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
From: "Derrick Aubuchon" <n184da(at)volcano.net>
I used a trunk "lift-strut" from a Nissan. The model I used was late 90's vintage; (which was the approximate time frame during which I tackled the canopy construction); but if you would like specifics, I could try and dig up the details. There are similar solutions I am sure, but most all of the mods that utilize these types of struts will mean a modification to the A-frame roll-over bar. In my case, this meant welding an attachment tab to the roll-over bar. Obviously, some sort of structural mounting will also be required on the Canopy frame assembly as well. Not sure what to say regarding the "Pirate" comment. > > Listers, > > Any RV4 folks out there with pics or drawings or what-have-you of canopy > restraint methods. The plans call for a "lanyard" but I would like > something a little more aircrafty. I mean, lanyard?! What am I, a > pirate? > > Ahoy, > Steve Zicree > RV4, On main gear today Derrick L. Aubuchon n184da(at)volcano.net RV4 N184DA, 400+ hours and counting! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Countersunk single lug anchor nut 6-32 needed
Mickey, I'm not sure if that model of nutplate comes in that size. When I'm looking for hard to find aviation hardware, I go to M&M Aerospace Hardware. They have a number of locations around the country. One really nice feature is you can download an Excel file of their stocked parts list. This list is updated every month. I just went to the web page below to try to see if they had that number. No joy. They show it in #8 and larger sizes though. http://www.mmaero.com/us/inventory.cfm Why not simply use a # 8 screw in that area? Charlie Kuss > >Hi, > >I need a 6-32 version of this part: MS21053-L08 > >It's a single lug, countersunk (dimpled), anchor nut. >Does anyone know where I might be able to find it, or >the specific part number? I tried searching for the >obvious MS21053-L06 on google, no luck yet. > >Thanks, >Mickey > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Countersunk single lug anchor nut 6-32 needed
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Mickey, If you are unable to find one, you might place a spacer/shim (.063) that has been machine countersunk under a non-dimpled single lug anchor nut to receive the dimpled substructure. Not too bad if you don't have to make very many of them. If this won't work in your situation, there are a couple of other ways around the problem. Ivan Haecker -4 1100hrs. S. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> Subject: RV-List: Countersunk single lug anchor nut 6-32 needed > > Hi, > > I need a 6-32 version of this part: MS21053-L08 > > It's a single lug, countersunk (dimpled), anchor nut. > Does anyone know where I might be able to find it, or > the specific part number? I tried searching for the > obvious MS21053-L06 on google, no luck yet. > > Thanks, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WILLMINCEY(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2004
Subject: Re: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
FYI, Not that it matters, but, The F-104, a mach 2 fighter used a lanyard for the canopy restraint for over 20 years with no problem. A simple metal hook and a simple pouch for storing when the canopy was shut. Can't get much cheaper than that. Will Mincey RV3 N81TD ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
Avast me hearty I use a lanyard. But then my airplane has this whole post neo-redneck thing going on so the lanyard fits right in. I used a short piece of cargo strap like you could buy at AutoZone, a hose clamp to hold it to the cross member of the roll bar and then a pop rivet through the strap into the cross member of the canopy frame. I kept it short enough to keep away from the rear stick. I'll replace it "one of these days" but for now it works. steve zicree wrote: > >Listers, > >Any RV4 folks out there with pics or drawings or what-have-you of canopy restraint methods. The plans call for a "lanyard" but I would like something a little more aircrafty. I mean, lanyard?! What am I, a pirate? > >Ahoy, >Steve Zicree >RV4, On main gear today > > > > -- -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
steve zicree wrote: > > Listers, > > Any RV4 folks out there with pics or drawings or what-have-you of > canopy restraint methods. The plans call for a "lanyard" but I would > like something a little more aircrafty. I mean, lanyard?! What am I, > a pirate? Let's see...light, reliable, elegantly designed........how much more "aircrafty" do you want??!?? :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
Date: Oct 27, 2004
I thought the reason for the flimsy lanyard was to go hand-in-hand with the light pop-rivets holding the canopy hinge to the fuselage: make it jettisonable. Is there any chance of the canopy staying attached to the airframe and flailing around, possibly bashing either the pilot or the passenger, if the hinge rivets let go but a too-strong lanyard won't break? Scott in VAncouver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard > > Avast me hearty I use a lanyard. But then my airplane has this whole > post neo-redneck thing going on so the lanyard fits right in. I used a > short piece of cargo strap like you could buy at AutoZone, a hose clamp > to hold it to the cross member of the roll bar and then a pop rivet > through the strap into the cross member of the canopy frame. I kept it > short enough to keep away from the rear stick. I'll replace it "one of > these days" but for now it works. > > steve zicree wrote: > >> >>Listers, >> >>Any RV4 folks out there with pics or drawings or what-have-you of canopy >>restraint methods. The plans call for a "lanyard" but I would like >>something a little more aircrafty. I mean, lanyard?! What am I, a pirate? >> >>Ahoy, >>Steve Zicree >>RV4, On main gear today >> >> >> >> > > -- > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > Van Arts Consulting Services > 3848 McHenry Ave > Suite #155-184 > Modesto, CA 95356 > 209-986-4647 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: Add another Flying RV to the list
Date: Oct 28, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: "Raymond Wallace" <rawmailman(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Add another Flying RV to the list > > RV-4 N7015, kit number 3645, took to the air for the first time, 27 October at Great Falls, Montana. A little left wing heavy but nothing that can't be tweeked. NOW THE FUN BEGINS!!! > > > --------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV8 Seats
Hi Gert, Stop yakin' and start snappin! Snapping pictures, that is! :-) I didn't realize she'd come to my house in Switzerland and fit the seats, that's really great! Mickey >Yeah, They're great, but.... > >having Abby do housecalls right at your hanger/garage for those few >lucky ones...and not just once.... > >PRICELESS !!!!! > >She'll come and personally fit them for you. -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Add another Flying RV to the list
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Raymond, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck and Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Raymond Wallace <rawmailman(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Add another Flying RV to the list >Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 15:14:50 -0700 (PDT) > > >RV-4 N7015, kit number 3645, took to the air for the first time, 27 October >at Great Falls, Montana. A little left wing heavy but nothing that can't >be tweeked. NOW THE FUN BEGINS!!! > > >--------------------------------- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: Countersunk single lug anchor nut 6-32 needed
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Might try Genuine Aircraft Hardware for # MS21052, MS21054 which is countersunk, MS 21062 Which is floating MS 21072 which is mini. Phone is 1-888-247-2738 http://www.gen-aircraft-hardware.com/images/pdf/nutplate.pdf is the data for nutplates. Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie Kuss" <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersunk single lug anchor nut 6-32 needed > > Mickey, > I'm not sure if that model of nutplate comes in that size. When I'm > looking for hard to find aviation hardware, I go to M&M Aerospace > Hardware. They have a number of locations around the country. One really > nice feature is you can download an Excel file of their stocked parts list. > This list is updated every month. I just went to the web page below to try > to see if they had that number. No joy. They show it in #8 and larger sizes > though. > > http://www.mmaero.com/us/inventory.cfm > > Why not simply use a # 8 screw in that area? > > Charlie Kuss > > > > > >Hi, > > > >I need a 6-32 version of this part: MS21053-L08 > > > >It's a single lug, countersunk (dimpled), anchor nut. > >Does anyone know where I might be able to find it, or > >the specific part number? I tried searching for the > >obvious MS21053-L06 on google, no luck yet. > > > >Thanks, > >Mickey > > > >-- > >Mickey Coggins > >http://www.rv8.ch/ > >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank
Hi Wayne and all, The MTV-15-B/183-402 has gone through flight vibration testing to verify the propeller design for continuous operation with an unrestricted RPM range. This was done on a Lycoming O-360, and an IO-360. This was also done with electronic ignition installed. The MTV-15-B/183-402 is design for operation with the 180 hp and 200 hp Lycoming on aircraft operation in the same speed range as the RV series aircraft. This is a unique propeller for the Lycoming 360 non-counterweighted crankshaft engines. Of course, the Lycoming 360 counterweighted crankshaft engines do not have the midrange RPM restriction. MT Propeller is checking on any possible aerobatic restrictions on this design, based on the four possible hub lengths available for the propeller. Counterweighted blades are always preferred for (+ and - G) aerobatic flight. During maneuvers through zero G's, when the inverted oil system doesn't always "find" the oil, there can be a momentary loss of oil pressure to the propeller. With the loss of oil pressure, the counterweighted blade propeller travels to a coarse pitch (low RPM). With the loss of oil pressure, the non-counterweighted blade propeller travels to fine pitch (high RPM). This overspeeds the engine and propeller, and can be a high enough RPM that it would scrap both. Unfortunately, the MTV-15-B/183-402 blade design and blade weight does not allow the incorporation of blade counterweights. For positive G only aerobatics (sport aerobatics), there is not the need for the counterweighted blades. As long as there is no interruption of oil pressure to the propeller. Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 10/26/2004 11:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "Wayne Glasser" <ku-tec(at)bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Counterweighted Crank --> RV-List message posted by: "Wayne Glasser" Jim Would you mind clarifying please. On the top of your web site page it says 'LYCOMING O-360 MT PROPELLER' and then it goes on to say 'any Lycoming 360 engine'. Can it be used on both the O-360 and IO-360 as they have a different harmonic signatures? Regards Wayne ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LeastDrag93066(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Subject: Wing root fairings
Hi All, The only documentation so far has been my post to the list. I would prefer to not disclose the sources, due to the possible embarrassment to them. Why this occur? This is a good question. The simple answer: A gap at the wing root reduces the total wing lift, and increases the drag. The bigger the gap, the greater the impact. Stop reading here if you don't need a detailed answer. Lift. The span wise wing lift distribution is approximated by half of the lift being a rectangular lift distribution, and the other half of the lift being an elliptical lift distribution, from wingtip to wingtip. If there is a leak in the wing (like removing the rubber seal at the wing root), the lift becomes zero at this point. Now there are two lift distributions, from each wingtip to the wing root, and a smaller total lifting area. There are also the equivalent of four wingtip edges for the lift distribution, instead of two, having two separate rectangular and elliptical lift distribution curves. There is a larger lift component required out of the reduced span lift distribution. Since there is a fixed maximum angle of attack available from the wing, this angle of attack is reached at a high airspeed than with the wing root sealed. Drag. The normal fuselage and wing intersection combines two boundary layers traveling at two different velocities. (The free stream velocity is the same. The boundary layer velocities are different due to the difference in boundary layer development along the fuselage and wing. Using the Reynolds number as a reference, the Reynolds number for the air along the fuselage is a large number, and the Reynolds number for the air at the leading edge of the wing (stagnation point) is zero.) With the rubber seal strip removed, there is a small amount of free stream air entering the wing gap. In a small enough gap, the free stream air will mix with the fuselage boundary layer air and the wing root separated air. This airflow is stopped by the forward wing bracket (tank bracket) and the wing spar, and spills out at the wing root with a vertical velocity into the free stream air. (On the RV-8 with the rubber seal strip removed, it also caused a tail buffet near the stall speed.) With the aluminum gap fairing removed, the was significantly more free stream air traveling between the wing and fuselage. The energy of this air spilling vertically out of the gap affected a large area along the fuselage and specifically along the wing root. And significantly increase the drag on the airframe. (This also effectively reduced the wing area available to produce lift.) Regards, Jim Ayers In a message dated 10/26/2004 11:59:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes: From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> Subject: RV-List: Wing root fairings Now that I know I can use the flat aluminum wing root fairings, does anybody have any info on performance? I saw one post that said stall speed could go up to 70 just by leaving off the rubber seal, and to 100 by omitting the fairings completely. Have these results been documented? Can anyone explain exactly why this occurs? Steve Zicree RV4, wrestling with canopy frame ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Avionics
Date: Oct 28, 2004
MK12d has been in our 6a since 95 and has never had a problem. If you are not going to use VOR there are smaller and lighter radios such as ICOM. Ollie 6A Central Fl. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Harker" <dpharker(at)worldnet.att.net> Subject: RV-List: Avionics > > Starting to think about avionics. > > Would like to hear offline--- people's firsthand experiences with Narco > Mk12D+ avionics, 122D and/or Garmin GNC-300XL GPS/Comm. > > Interested in your thoughts on performance and value. > > Thanks > > Don Harker > RV-7A Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: EFIS Horizon
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
SNIP Anyone hear of anything new on the EFIS horizon? no pun intended. lucky SNIP Lucky, I've got 5 hours behind my GRT EFIS Horizon in my Rocket. All I can say is WOW! It will take me another 20 hours just to figure out how to use all of the nifty stuff it will do! I've had the usual teething problems, all related to things I've done wrong, nothing that a phone call hasn't been able to fix in 2 minutes. So far, I'm quite pleased with it. If you need more details visit my website or www.grtavionics.com. No, they don't pay me to say this stuff....but they should!!! Vince Frazier F-1H Rocket, N540VF http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: another EFIS?
vansairforce http://www.ba-elec.com/New%20avionics/products.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Really good point. People have suggested climbing rope, but that stuff is crazy strong. I'd hate to have the canopy attached only by that and flailing around smacking me in the head. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard > > I thought the reason for the flimsy lanyard was to go hand-in-hand with the > light pop-rivets holding the canopy hinge to the fuselage: make it > jettisonable. > Is there any chance of the canopy staying attached to the airframe and > flailing around, possibly bashing either the pilot or the passenger, if the > hinge rivets let go but a too-strong lanyard won't break? > Scott in VAncouver > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV4 canopy restraint lanyard > > > > > > Avast me hearty I use a lanyard. But then my airplane has this whole > > post neo-redneck thing going on so the lanyard fits right in. I used a > > short piece of cargo strap like you could buy at AutoZone, a hose clamp > > to hold it to the cross member of the roll bar and then a pop rivet > > through the strap into the cross member of the canopy frame. I kept it > > short enough to keep away from the rear stick. I'll replace it "one of > > these days" but for now it works. > > > > steve zicree wrote: > > > >> > >>Listers, > >> > >>Any RV4 folks out there with pics or drawings or what-have-you of canopy > >>restraint methods. The plans call for a "lanyard" but I would like > >>something a little more aircrafty. I mean, lanyard?! What am I, a pirate? > >> > >>Ahoy, > >>Steve Zicree > >>RV4, On main gear today > >> > >> > >> > >> > > > > -- > > -- > > Scott VanArtsdalen > > Van Arts Consulting Services > > 3848 McHenry Ave > > Suite #155-184 > > Modesto, CA 95356 > > 209-986-4647 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: EFIS Horizon
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Got better shots of most of the functions than their web site does? They seem to gloss over details of their moving map and that leads me to think it's not a very good page. -------------- Original message -------------- > > > SNIP Anyone hear of anything new on the EFIS horizon? no pun intended. > > lucky > > SNIP > > Lucky, > > I've got 5 hours behind my GRT EFIS Horizon in my Rocket. All I can say > is WOW! > > It will take me another 20 hours just to figure out how to use all of > the nifty stuff it will do! > > I've had the usual teething problems, all related to things I've done > wrong, nothing that a phone call hasn't been able to fix in 2 minutes. > So far, I'm quite pleased with it. If you need more details visit my > website or www.grtavionics.com. > > No, they don't pay me to say this stuff....but they should!!! > > Vince Frazier > F-1H Rocket, N540VF > http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html > > > > > > Got better shots of most of the functions than their web site does? They seem to gloss over details of their moving map and that leads me to think it's not a very good page. -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Frazier, Vincent A" SNIP Anyone hear of anything new on the EFIS horizon? no pun intended. lucky SNIP Lucky, I've got 5 hours behind my GRT EFIS Horizon in my Rocket. All I can say is WOW! It will take me another 20 hours just to figure out how to use all of the nifty stuff it will do! I've had the usual teething problems, all related to things I've done wrong, nothing that a phone call hasn't been able to fix in 2 minutes. So far, I'm quite pleased with it. If you need more details visit my website or www.grtavionics.com. No, they don't pay me to say this stuff....but they should!!! Vince Frazier F-1H Rocket, N540VF http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html tronics.com/search ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Subject: JB Aircraft Engine Services - references
From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net
Anybody on the list dealt with JB Aircraft Engine Services, Inc in Sebring, Florida? Steve RV7A #2 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Add another Flying RV to the list
Way to Go Ray !!! I know we ain't as numerous as the 6's, 8's, 9's, and soon to be 10's.... but we 4's are the BEST. Raymond Wallace wrote: RV-4 N7015, kit number 3645, took to the air for the first time, 27 October at Great Falls, Montana. A little left wing heavy but nothing that can't be tweeked. NOW THE FUN BEGINS!!! --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Subject: RV-8 Grove gear
Grove is now taking orders for March 05 delivery for the RV-8 aero gear. If more orders come in and the materials come in they could start sooner and ship sooner. ( 8 sets at a time) I'm # 4, add your name to the list. I should have checked the lead time before :( No matter the timing should be fine. http://www.groveaircraft.com/rv8.html 46 7AC (sold) RV-4 RV-8 Tail (QB on its way) Sal Capra Lakeland, FL. My Home Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Trio Auto pilot
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Anyone know if the Trio requires the smart coupler? Thanks, Ned ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 Seats
Hey Mickey wass immer du sagst, mein schweizer freund. Abby will be at your doorstep in no time if ya just send her a ticket. Oh make that 2 so her hubby can come along too ;-) but failing that, she'll do whatever it takes, the 'not so lucky' ones may have to meet her halfway. Gert Mickey Coggins wrote: > > Hi Gert, > > Stop yakin' and start snappin! Snapping pictures, that is! :-) > > I didn't realize she'd come to my house in Switzerland and > fit the seats, that's really great! > > Mickey > > > >>Yeah, They're great, but.... >> >>having Abby do housecalls right at your hanger/garage for those few >>lucky ones...and not just once.... >> >>PRICELESS !!!!! >> >>She'll come and personally fit them for you. > > > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > > > > -- is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Gary Zilik <zilik(at)direcpc.com>
Subject: Re: Trio Auto pilot
No, the Trio does not need the smart coupler Gary 923te wrote: > >Anyone know if the Trio requires the smart coupler? > >Thanks, >Ned > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Subject: Re: >Re:Tubing Inserts
NAPA auto parts usually has these too. Take along a piece of tubing to test fit - gently , they may be hard to remove. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Lubrication
Starting my annual inspection and this question arose, should I lubricate the UHMU plastic blocks that support the rudder pedals and flap weldments or are they self lubricating. If lube is required silicone spray or ?? Thanks, George in Langley. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim & Bev Cone" <jimnbev(at)olypen.com>
Subject: Re: Avionics
Date: Oct 28, 2004
MK12D+ is bullet proof. It is the best radio/nav I have ever used, period. Jim Cone 3 peat offender ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: countersunk rivets
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Can anyone tell a mainly plastic airplane builder what the general rule of thumb is for when you can countersink sheet metal instead of dimple for a flush rivet. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: countersunk rivets
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Hi Brian, Machine counter sinking is an option for structual parts that are .032 thick and thicker. Dimpling can be done on materials as thick as .040. Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Subject: RV-List: countersunk rivets > > Can anyone tell a mainly plastic airplane builder what the general rule of > thumb is for when you can countersink sheet metal instead of dimple for a > flush rivet. > > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Lubrication
In a message dated 10/28/2004 7:56:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca writes: Starting my annual inspection and this question arose, should I lubricate the UHMU plastic blocks that support the rudder pedals and flap weldments or are they self lubricating. If lube is required silicone spray or ?? I don't have any UHMU (sounds like an African plastic) but for lubricating UHMW I use Lubriplate (white lithium based grease). GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: countersunk rivets
Date: Oct 28, 2004
Brian, Note that the figures below are for 3/32 rivets, the 1/8 rivets require .050 or thicker to machine countersink. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: countersunk rivets > > Hi Brian, > > Machine counter sinking is an option for structual parts that are .032 thick > and thicker. > Dimpling can be done on materials as thick as .040. > > Jim in Kelowna > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: countersunk rivets > > > > > > Can anyone tell a mainly plastic airplane builder what the general rule of > > thumb is for when you can countersink sheet metal instead of dimple for a > > flush rivet. > > > > > > Brian Kraut > > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > > www.engalt.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chris & Kellie Hand" <ckhand(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Lubrication
Date: Oct 28, 2004
I asked Van's this question recently, specifically about the rudder pedal bearing blocks, and the answer I got was: no lubricant is necessary as the blocks are a teflon based plastic. Chris Hand RV-6A, working with fuselage & finishing kits ----- Original Message ----- From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> Received : rv-list(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV-List: Lubrication > > > Starting my annual inspection and this question arose, should I lubricate > the UHMU plastic blocks that support the rudder pedals and flap weldments or > are they self lubricating. If lube is required silicone spray or ?? > > Thanks, > > George in Langley. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2004
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: countersunk rivets
Brian: The minimum thickness of material considered acceptable for machine countersinking a given hole to accept a standard NAS426 rivet is .032. This is marginal because if you countersink the slightest bit too deep, you will knife edge the material, not a good thing. You can, however, machine countersink considerably thinner material to accept a 1097 rivet which is generally used (among other things) to support nutplate installation. There are tricks you can play. For example, when I built the fuel tanks for my 6A, which uses an .032 aluminum skin, I wanted the upper surfaces as smooth as possible, yet was reluctant to dimple because of the inherent distortion generated by the dimpling process. To avoid any possibility of generating a knife edge (and potential leak source), I purposely machine countersunk the upper surface holes to a depth somewhat deeper than a 1097 but a bit less than a 426, then after installing the 426's, used a rivet shaver to achieve maximum surface smoothness. Bottom line: .032 is the minimum acceptable material thickness for machine countersinking to accomodate the ubiquitous 426 rivet. Rick Galati RV-6A finishing Can anyone tell a mainly plastic airplane builder what the general rule of thumb is for when you can countersink sheet metal instead of dimple for a flush rivet. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Subject: Re: Lubrication
In a message dated 10/28/2004 10:44:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, ckhand(at)earthlink.net writes: no lubricant is necessary as the blocks are a teflon based plastic. ========================================== Not really Teflon, which is PolyTetraFluoroEthylene (PTFE) but another polymer, UHMW (Ultra High Molecular Weight) Polyethylene naturally has a low coefficient of friction. To say that no lubrication is necessary assumes that dry running causes so little wear as to be not worth the effort. I think you will find that UHMW holds up pretty well as a lightly loaded bearing surface, but, as they say in adult film business, a little lubrication couldn't hurt. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
Subject: Re: countersunk rivets
Date: Oct 29, 2004
I believe the number is 0.040 as min for countersinking. Check AC 43.13-1B Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> Subject: RV-List: countersunk rivets > > Can anyone tell a mainly plastic airplane builder what the general rule of > thumb is for when you can countersink sheet metal instead of dimple for a > flush rivet. > > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ollie Washburn" <ollie-6a(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: JB Aircraft Engine Services - references
Date: Oct 29, 2004
----- Original Message ----- From: <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net> Subject: RV-List: JB Aircraft Engine Services - references > > Anybody on the list dealt with JB Aircraft Engine Services, Inc in > Sebring, Florida? > > Steve > RV7A #2 > > Steve--- They reworked 4 cylinders for my O-235 in the PA-12 and have done > 6 cylinders on my friends Bonanza. We both have been satisfied with their > work and if our O-360 in the 6a needed work I would take it to them. Ollie 6A Central Fl. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: FW: Re: Flightline Interiors question
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Lucky- Here's a copy of an e I sent to some other listers the other day. To answer the QQ you asked, IIRC, the two foams you reference are basically the same. They are both visco elastic. This means that unlike regular foam rubber, it isn't springy. It's the same kind of stuff the good disposable earplugs are made of. When you squish it, it tends to stay squished for a while instead of springing right back. The less expensive stuff is just a bit stiffer when cold. Perhaps a little springier too. The visco elastic characteristic means a couple of things. First, when you sit down on it, it takes a moment or two to conform to your rear end, especially when cold. Foam rubber would conform instantly. Next. foam rubber being a form of spring will create a pressure point where it is most highly compressed. The visco elastic foams spread the load out and are therefore very much more comfortable. This is why Vans sells a layer of visco elastic foam - comfort only. The last issue has to do with crashworthiness. Recall that conventional foam is a spring. In a crash, you compress the cushion. As the G's cease, the 'spring' cushion launches you, contributing to the secondary impacts with the aircraft structure. These are often much more damaging than the primary impact. Recall the video of Wayne Handley crashing the Turbo Raven. His head peaked 3 feet above the normal sitting position before his belts slammed him back down into the cockpit, THAT'S the part that almos t killed him. The visco elastic foams are more like shock absorbers than springs. Upon impact it compresses and stays compressed for some time. It doesn't launch you into the belts like regular foam. Putting a less dense / softer layer (comfort) on top of a bunch of more dense / stiffer foam is probably the ultimate in comfort AND crashworthiness. This is why Oregon uses 100% visco elastic foam in their military and other high end seats. It's also why I went that route with Abby's cushions. FWIW Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ----- Original Message ----- From: Glen Matejcek Subject: Re: Flightline Interiors question Hi Guys- Well, I'm back in town, so here's some pix of my new seats. I tried to show the overall configuration as well as some details. Note some points of interest: The front bottom seat is contoured to the odd space in the -8. My front seat back is 3/4 inch taller than std due to the 'tall man' seat back option (no extra charge!). The removable bolster velcroed to the bottom of the rear seat to adjust for different height backseaters. 100% confor foam construction, unlike van's seat materials. All that blue padding, being dense and non-rebounding, will add a huge amount of protection to my spine in a crash. The little pad is a headrest for the rear seat. I hadn't known that was included.... All this is wrapped in a synthetic leather. It is very supple, durable, and comfortable. This cost me just over one third of what Oregon Aero charges for their leather rv-8 seat cushions. I believe that Oregon's cushions are more complex / highly tailored than Abby's, but given that mine are made of confor foam, I don't see that as relevant. Abby will do custom embroidery and / or help you achieve whatever effect you want for your interior. Given that I am building a plane to sit in and fly as opposed to one to stand next to and show off, I opted for an utilitarian interior vs. a flashy one. Once the plane is flying, we may choose to add a complete cloth interior for the sake of sound and abrasion proofing, but we aren't doing that at this time. Sorry for the lack of pix of the cushions in the plane, but all the floorboards are out at the moment as I string wire, and string wire, and string wire.... FWIW Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 10/28/04
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
**********SNIP Subject: RV-List: another EFIS? vansairforce http://www.ba-elec.com/New%20avionics/products.html SNIP************ I sure hope their product is better than their crappy website. Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 10/28/04
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) Subject: Re: RV-List: EFIS Horizon Got better shots of most of the functions than their web site does? They seem to gloss over details of their moving map and that leads me to think it's not a very good page. > No, they don't pay me to say this stuff....but they should!!! > > Vince Frazier > F-1H Rocket, N540VF > http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html SNIP *********** Their map page is fine. It even gives obstacle alerts. Here's a couple links. http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Instruments%20and%20electr ical.htm http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/2004-05-17/More%20EFIS%20d isplays%203.jpg not a good picture since it was taken during construction, but a picture nonetheless. The map page has several options for how it is displayed, including HSI. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Looking for backer board for interior panels
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Any suggestions on a light backer board for interior panels. My bird is already a little on the plumpy side so Im trying to keep her from becoming a static display while making her a little more eye friendly. Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 140 hours Chicago/Louisville ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Besing" <azpilot(at)extremezone.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for backer board for interior panels
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Foam core works well. Not the best fire retardent product in the world, but it works well. You can get it as thin as 1/8" from craft stores like Michaels. Paul Besing RV-6A Sold RV-10 Soon http://www.lacodeworks.com/besing Kitlog Pro Builder's Log Software http://www.kitlog.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Looking for backer board for interior panels > > Any suggestions on a light backer board for interior panels. My bird is already a little on the plumpy side so Im trying to keep her from becoming a static display while making her a little more eye friendly. > > Jeff Dowling > RV-6A, N915JD > 140 hours > Chicago/Louisville > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: Re: countersunk rivets
Cy, My preliminary search through AC-43 has proved fruitless. Perhaps you can steer me towards the relevant part of AC-43 that documents .040 as the minimum material thickness to machine countersink for a 426-AD3 rivet. I ask this because many people refer to Section 5(E), page 5-3 of Van's manual which would seem to indicate otherwise. Rick Galati RV-6A "finishing" I believe the number is 0.040 as min for countersinking. Check AC 43.13-1B Cy Galley - Chair, AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair A Service Project of Chapter 75 EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC EAA Sport Pilot ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Subject: Re: countersunk rivets
Brian, While you can countersink .032 for a 3/32 rivet, dimpling makes a much stronger joint. For the wing and fuselage skins, I would dimple. I found that a single hammer blow made a nice dimple without distorting the skin. Squeezing distorted the skin more. My breakpoint would be to machine countersink no less than .040. On the fuselage bottom where the skins join the carry-through spar, I would dimple including the .040 spar. The exception to this is nutplates, where there is really no structural load. When installing nutplates with standard rivets its impossible to avoid a knife edge unless you carefully deburr. You also have to countersink the nutplate slightly so that the rivet will be flush. There are always exceptions to rules, so this is just one opinion. Welcome to the wonderful world of sheet metal. It won't be as smooth as glass, but it flies just as good. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (flying about 62 hours) In a message dated 10/28/04 10:39:46 PM US Eastern Standard Time, brian.kraut(at)engalt.com writes: > > > Can anyone tell a mainly plastic airplane builder what the general rule of > thumb is for when you can countersink sheet metal instead of dimple for a > flush rivet. > > > Brian Kraut > Engineering Alternatives, Inc. > www.engalt.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Subject: Check out AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices
- Aircraft I Click here: AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection and Repair This URL will get the appropiate Advisory Circular for you. Save it in your list of favorites for future reference - you WILL need it. You can also purchase it from Gov't. Printing Office. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Looking for backer board for interior panels
I'm using half inch foam insulating board with thin cloth. Total interior weight will be less than 1.5 lbs. hal Jeff Dowling wrote: Any suggestions on a light backer board for interior panels. My bird is already a little on the plumpy side so Im trying to keep her from becoming a static display while making her a little more eye friendly. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: Check out AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices
- Aircraft I
Date: Oct 29, 2004
And you can also get it at Builder's Bookstore at http://buildersbooks.com/4313.htm Andy 800 780-4115 > Click here: AC 43-13 Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft > Inspection and Repair > > This URL will get the appropiate Advisory Circular for you. Save it in your > list of favorites for future reference - you WILL need it. > You can also purchase it from Gov't. Printing Office. > > Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X > A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor > Charleston,Arkansas > Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Looking for backer board for interior panels
Date: Oct 29, 2004
Try chloroplast or corrugated plastic sheets from a graphics supplier. It's the same stuff that I received from airtex for an "approved install". It's easy to work with and water proof. My local guy sells it for 14 bucks a sheet (48" x 96"). Steve N221RV Foam core works well. Not the best fire retardent product in the world, but it works well. You can get it as thin as 1/8" from craft stores like Michaels. > Any suggestions on a light backer board for interior panels. My bird is already a little on the plumpy side so Im trying to keep her from becoming a static display while making her a little more eye friendly. > > Jeff Dowling > RV-6A, N915JD > 140 hours > Chicago/Louisville > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: 2002 RV-8A FOR SALE
vansairforce I am entertaining the thought of selling my RV-8A... Please feel free to contact me with any questions! More info and pix can be found here: http://www.vondane.com/forsale/rv8a/ -Bill * Price: $85,000 * Year: 2002 * Type: VAN'S RV-8A * Registration: N8WV * Airframe Total Time: (approximate) 196 Hours * Airframe Empty Weight: 1029 lbs * Useful Load: 771 lbs * Engine Time: (approximate) 4956 Hours TT, 32 SMOH * Engine/HP: Lycoming 0-320-E3D @ 170HP - wide deck 2004 Overhaul to within factory new specs New ASI performance cam and Lycoming lifter bodies New ECI 9:1 pistons, rings, and Superior pins All hard parts cleaned, magnafluxed, and measured to be within factory new specs All new bearings, rod bolts, rod nuts, valve springs and keepers All 4 cyls (channel chrome) overhauled and returned to factory new specs Single Lightspeed Plasma II+ Electronic Ignition Vetterman Crossover Exhaust 35 Amp Lightweight Alternator SkyTech Lightweight Starter Stewart Warner Oil Cooler with cockpit controllable door * Prop: Catto three blade - 66x72 * Avionics: Microair 760-8.33 Transceiver Microair T2000 transponder Ameri-king Altitude Encoder PS Engineering PCD7100I Stereo Intercom / CD Player * Flight Instruments: Airspeed Altitude VSI Needle & Ball LRI Digital AOA G-Meter Compass * Engine Instruments: Grand Rapids Technologies - EIS4000 Tachometer MAP All 4 EGT All 4 CHT Oil Pressure Oil Temperature Outside Air Temperature Carb Temp Fuel Levels Fuel Flow Voltmeter Ammeter Hour meter Flight Timer * Other Equipment: Van's new "Sheared" Wingtips CreativAir Strobe Package - Wings & Tail CreativAir Wingtip mounted 75 Watt Halogen Landing/Taxi Lights with Alternating Flasher Unit and integrated LED Nav lights AK-450 ELT Van's fuel gauges 3 Interior Fresh Air Vents - Upgraded Aluminum Vents * Exterior: The plane is unpainted * Interior: Painted gray to match Van's powder coating, ComforFoam cloth seats, 4 point seat harnesses ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Looking for backer board for interior panels
Jeff Dowling wrote: > >Any suggestions on a light backer board for interior panels. My bird is already a little on the plumpy side so Im trying to keep her from becoming a static display while making her a little more eye friendly. > >Jeff Dowling >RV-6A, N915JD >140 hours >Chicago/Louisville > Go to a sign shop and get some plastic corrugated sign material ...... or run out and get some from the political signs on Tuesday night!!! Linn > > > >


October 24, 2004 - October 29, 2004

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