RV-Archive.digest.vol-qa

November 06, 2004 - November 13, 2004



      
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From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject:
Date: Nov 06, 2004
I don't think stainless Is magnetic. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of steve zicree Subject: RV-List: Anyone know whether my gear leg fairing hinges are stainless? They're very thin material and sure do look like stainless, but I'm not sure. Only reason I care is I'd love to have one less thing to prime. Steve Zicree RV4, wearing pants! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2004
From: Dan Brown <dan(at)familybrown.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List:
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Allen Fulmer wrote: | I don't think stainless Is magnetic. Depends on the alloy. Some alloys of stainless are magnetic, others are not. A quick google search found this page: http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1140 ...which seems to indicate that the the 300-series alloys are not magnetic, but others are. - -- Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org "Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring." ~ -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iD8DBQFBjSUvyQGUivXxtkERAuCNAKDCbNOyPX7ovWIYphgEJ9JJ50hYOACgstPi UrzFPoWX6yMBvzVD63iEqgI=2vhk -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2004
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Hinges
If they are a 300 series stainless, an easy way to tell is with a very power full magnet like out of a dead hard drive or speaker. See how the material sticks to it, if you can just barely feel the magnet pulling on it then it is a 300 series stainless, if it sticks really hard it is either 440 stainless or some other not stainless alloy, if it doesn't pull at all it's probably a nonferrous material. Chris W Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2004
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Special N-Number reservation
This is going to vary quite a bit from state to state. I waited till the end to register, and when the tax man came a'calling (which only took a couple of weeks) I sent the receipts showing what I spent on the project and a check for the tax. That made them happy, no penalties or interest. Of course, I may have underestimated the amount I spent just a wee bit. This is in Wisconsin, which is pretty much a tax hell. YMMV state to state, talk to some other builders from your state. Jeff Point ]RV-6 Milwaukee WI Sam Buchanan wrote: >Triggering the tax man early in the project is a *good* thing! If you >wait until the plane is nearly complete before registering (and having >the FAA inform your state revenuers there is a rich aircraft owner in >their midst), and you have not paid any sales taxes on airframe, engine, >or components, you will incur penalties and interest for late payment of >taxes. > >However, if you contact your state's tax offices early in the project, >you can pay sales tax as you go and avoid the penalties and interest. >This can be done whether registration has occurred or not. > >Sam Buchanan >http://thervjournal.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: Screwy fuel flow readings
Date: Nov 06, 2004
If you have a multimeter check the signal on the white wire from the sensor. The signal with no flow should be a steady voltage, or zero volts. Then click meter to frequency measurement, should be 0Hz. Turn pump on, now see if you still have 0Hz. If not it could be a bad sensor. Also check that the sensor has the 12V power and ground signals. Regards, Trampas www.sterntech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Screwy fuel flow readings Listers, especially those with EIS engine monitors: I'm almost ready for my first flight but have run into a glitch with my GRT EIS fuel flow measurement system that has me temporarily stumped. I get a normal zero flow indication with EIS power on (engine off) but it jumps to a steady state of about 4.5 GPH as soon as I turn on the boost pump. There is no fuel flowing at that point. When I start the engine the indication jumps to upwards of 19 GPH at idle and as high as 38 GPH at 2000 RPM. This with an 0-360 BTW. For those of you who are EIS users, the correct scale factor of 200 has been entered into the EIS. My boost pump is separated from the flow sender by at least 30 inches of tubing and the last 12 inches before the sender is a long smooth curve. I have checked all connections, wiring, grounds, etc., and can find nothing wrong there. Greg at GRT is on vacation but Sandy is sending me a loaner sending unit to try. In the meantime if anyone has had a similar experience or has any ideas on this I'd sure appreciate hearing from them. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final details ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)allstream.net>
Subject: Heat muff for carburated engines only
Date: Nov 06, 2004
I just received my heat muff from Van's The instructions say "for carburated engines only" Since my engine will be fuel injection I wonder why they have this restriction? GEORGE H. INMAN ghinman(at)allstream.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: starter on ebay
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Has anybody used one of these starters? I am looking to buy a starter in the near future and ran across this one. Hope the link works, if not, the item # is 4501640546. Scott http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4501640546&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Subject: Re: Screwy fuel flow readings
Thanks Jeff. I'll try it with the boost pump off. Harry Crosby Pleasanton, California RV-6, final details ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: starter on ebay
Date: Nov 06, 2004
I've never seen this type but I have a Prestolite off of an O-320 Like New for sale. John John(at)fureychrysler.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 06, 2004
I am installing a MT prop governor using the VA-183 cable bracket that Vans recommends but unless I'm missing something this bracket will not work. It Bolts on to the large bolts at the base of the Gov. Any help would be appreciated. John RV6A O-320 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 06, 2004
I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an elongated hole in the bracket and it attatched to the small screws on the Gov. Did I get a bracket for a different Gov by mistake or does the RV7 use a different one than a 6?? Any pictures out there? Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RMI - MicroMonitor
That's good info. Why did you DNA it? I have MicroMonitor too. I put it together and it's been working great. I'm going to un-DNA it if you don't mind. Tom Gummo wrote: > >Long Report on the problem, support from the factory, and the repair of The Rocky Mountain Instrument - MicroMonitor. > > >During the building process, I had to decide which engine monitor I wanted yet could afford to install in my plane. Remember, this was before the latest several monitors became available. Anyway, RMI unit was chosen. I have a friend who is Electrical Engineer and he said he said it would be fun to build the unit so the kit was ordered. During the assembly process, he reported that it was the best electronic kit he had ever worked on. During installation, two sensors didn't appear to work properly and the company quickly sent out replaces after asking if we were sure that they were installed properly. Of course, we said we were sure. After the sensors arrived, it was found the we had wired them improperly (the company didn't say I told you so but were happy to learn that we had solved the problem. > > >For the next two years, the unit worked perfectly and just as advertised. Then the unit started to have problems. It would reset itself, lock up, and or just display incorrect data. An email to RMI and they sent a troubleshooting manual the next day. Again with the help of the EE, we started to find and fix the problem. As we had not changed anything, it had to be in the "box" but test after test showed the box was working correctly. Finally, we were able to determine that three sensors that were acting up all used a 10 volt input. After checking each sensor, we found that the connectors for the oil temperature were no longer protected by shrink-wrap and was shorting out when the engine was running. How does shrink-wrap disappear? I was sure that we never did any maintenance on the sensor. Then I remember that we had removed the engine and it turns out the over-haulers most likely removed the oil temperature probe. As I had hardwired it, they had to cut the wires ! >and it was up to us to reconnect everything. (As a side note, when Jack Starn AKA KABONG starting helping me over five years ago, I told him every good thing I would credit for and he would have to accept all the blame for all the mistakes.) Therefore, Jack didn't do a good job of putting everything back together. > > >Good - The RMI unit works great. The company support is excellent. Any problems were user generated. > > >Bad - Jack. :-) > > >Tom Gummo >Apple Valley, CA >Harmon Rocket-II > > >http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 06, 2004
http://www.rvproject.com/20030722.html has some photos of my Jihostroj (mistakenly called MT) governor and the bracket that came with the FWF kit from Van's. The photos were taken while I was still messing with prop cable routing. The one with an elongated hole sounds like the older style McCauley governor bracket. Believe that's VA-153, but I'm not positive. As you mentioned in your previous email, for a Jihostroj governor and VA-183, the bracket attaches to the studs where the gov'r mounts. If it's not intuitive on your setup, maybe you could post some photos? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket > > I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an elongated hole in > the bracket and it attatched to the small screws on the Gov. Did I get a > bracket for a different Gov by mistake or does the RV7 use a different one > than a 6?? Any pictures out there? > > Thanks, > John > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Thanks for the pics. Looks just like my bracket and you seem to have made it fit. It looked to me like it would hit the oil filter or oil line going down to the cooler but I will take a harder look. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 06, 2004
Yeah, the hose to the oil cooler was an issue. I had to use a hose with a 45-degree elbow end on it, and it worked out A-OK. Photos here: http://www.rvproject.com/20031103.html )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket > > Thanks for the pics. Looks just like my bracket and you seem to have made it > fit. It looked to me like it would hit the oil filter or oil line going down > to the cooler but I will take a harder look. > > John > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Here is a pic of my bracket on my O-360 with Woodward governor. http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=13&pos=35 I had to elongate, ever so slightly, the mounting holes to get it to fit the aft end of the governor. Don't know if that helps or not... - Larry Bowen, RV-8, 19.7 Hrs. Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: John Furey [mailto:john(at)fureychrysler.com] > Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 9:29 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket > > > I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an > elongated hole in the bracket and it attatched to the small > screws on the Gov. Did I get a bracket for a different Gov by > mistake or does the RV7 use a different one than a 6?? Any > pictures out there? > > Thanks, > John > > > ======== > ======== > Matronics Forums. > ======== > ======== > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Subject: Re: Nutplate jigs
Mickey, For the wingtip nutplates, I glassed them in. Just drill the holes for clecos, then enlarge them for 6-32 screws, and screw in the nutplates with short screws, or with lots of nuts, washers, etc., to hold them on to the tips (tips off the wings at this point). First rough up the inside of the wing tips with 60 grit paper. Now use 2 layers of fiberglass about 3/4 to 1 inch wide running the length (cord) of the tip. You can do them all at once, no drilling and no rivets. Just spread the weave of the glass where it goes over the nutplates as you lay the wet glass strips down. The nutplates make a good centering pilot for hand countersinking for the dimpled skins. A good place to get a taste of epoxy! Nothing critical about it, it'll never be seen. This also worked for the nutplates that hold the tip lens in place, no rivets here either. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) In a message dated 11/6/04 11:33:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time, mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes: > > > Hi Charlie, > > Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working > on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the > baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips. > > Mickey ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Subject: Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
In a message dated 11/7/04 10:26:40 AM US Eastern Standard Time, sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes: > > Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I > could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how > much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > > Tom, How will this tell you how effective the oil cooler is? If you measure 2 degrees of drop across the cooler, it may be lowering the oil temperature by 20 degrees, because the oil entering the cooler has already been cooled. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Subject: Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
In a message dated 11/7/2004 7:26:40 AM Pacific Standard Time, sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes: I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil pressure gauge and oil temperature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? ====================================== IMO not worth the effort. The VM1000 system is a very well designed and time tested appliance. The only problems of which I am aware are related to the fuel flow sender and a memory/battery module, and that was due to infant mortality. Aside from that, the unit works very well and will likely give many thousands of hours of good service. I would go with the same unit today except for the fact that they now have merged with JPI, with whom I still have a beef. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
Date: Nov 07, 2004
I ordered the double function pressure switch from vans and therefore have a backup which is a low pressure warning. I like it. On Nov 7, 2004, at 8:24 AM, thomas a. sargent wrote: > > > I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. > I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, > that's > a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer > programmer, > I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was > wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure > gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. > > Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just > being paranoid? > > Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I > could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how > much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. > -- > Tom Sargent, RV-6A > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Hi Tom, Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of unreliable operating systems. The OS's that are in use in today's avionics have literally MILLIONS of hours of flight time on them. You won't find a windows operating system controlling the 100% digital Airbus's or Boeing 777's. Take a simple analogy. Unix vs. Windows. I wouldn't even bother with the extra oil stuff. If you're concerned about that, then where do you stop?? Backup Volts/Amps, 2nd RPM, 2nd MP, 2nd Fuel, 2nd CHT,....you get my point. You either trust the digital stuff or you don't. If you don't trust it, don't use it. But if you do, you need to trust it. There are a LOT of VM-1000's flying, and they even are getting the thing certified. The engine monitors are far from "Bleeding Edge" technology regarding the software/OS side. Anyway, not meant as a flame, just a point that we ought not compare the software/OS's of avionics with our home computers because it's not even a close or similar comparision (with the exception of a "few" home grown/lower quality EFIs systems out there). Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a. sargent Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
Date: Nov 07, 2004
When comparing engine monitors compare them to other "embedded" devices. For example when was the last time you had to reboot your VCR? How about your car? Think about it, just about everything has a computer in it now. Microwave, Refrigerator, thermostats, Heat Pumps, Stove, TV, calculator, etc, yet everyone compares electronic engine devices to PCs, and 80's car computers. I have heard rumors that some of newer EFIS systems are using DOS/Windows CE. If you are worried than ask! Regards, Trampas www.sterntech.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge Hi Tom, Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of unreliable operating systems. The OS's that are in use in today's avionics have literally MILLIONS of hours of flight time on them. You won't find a windows operating system controlling the 100% digital Airbus's or Boeing 777's. Take a simple analogy. Unix vs. Windows. I wouldn't even bother with the extra oil stuff. If you're concerned about that, then where do you stop?? Backup Volts/Amps, 2nd RPM, 2nd MP, 2nd Fuel, 2nd CHT,....you get my point. You either trust the digital stuff or you don't. If you don't trust it, don't use it. But if you do, you need to trust it. There are a LOT of VM-1000's flying, and they even are getting the thing certified. The engine monitors are far from "Bleeding Edge" technology regarding the software/OS side. Anyway, not meant as a flame, just a point that we ought not compare the software/OS's of avionics with our home computers because it's not even a close or similar comparision (with the exception of a "few" home grown/lower quality EFIs systems out there). Cheers, Stein Bruch RV6's, Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a. sargent Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now. I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer, I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges. Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just being paranoid? Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Nutplate jigs
Mickey Coggins wrote: > >Hi Charlie, > >Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working >on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the >baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips. > >Mickey > > > >>I thought about telling Mickey to do a kit upgrade instead of a tool >>upgrade. My -7 tail & wings (bought in Apr. last year) have had all the >>nutplate areas prepunched. >> >> > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > I'm still building the wings so I haven't had to deal with fitting wing roots yet. I doubt that they are prepunched there because that will by a custom fitted area. The factory told me that the fuse structure is prepunched for the floor nutplates. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Nutplate jigs
I sat down and poured another cup of coffee from my thermos which I use to keep it from boiling away. It hissed when I poured it into my cup it was so hot in Stockton (SCK) that day. Maybe the heat also was doing something to my brain but I sat and counted just how many steps it takes to install a platenute. I came up with 21, using the jig. Makes me realize why so many machines are built with sheet metal screws. Drill holes, slap in screws. Jigs like this are used extensively in factory production to increase production quantity and quality at the same time. Any operation that is being done repetitively should be considered for application of either a jig or a fixture. A jig holds or guides the tool. A fixture holds or guides the workpiece. What is really needed is a three chuck (multi-spindle) drill. Check this one out http://www.commandermultidrill.com/catalog/appl/multi1.pdf This company has small 2 spindle drills and many others. I want one! I am sure I can find a need for drilling 24 holes at once. hal ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Nutplate jigs
>Mickey Coggins wrote: > > >Hi Charlie, > > > >Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working > >on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the > >baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips. > > > >Mickey > > > > > > > >>I thought about telling Mickey to do a kit upgrade instead of a tool > >>upgrade. My -7 tail & wings (bought in Apr. last year) have had all the > >>nutplate areas prepunched. > >> > >> > > > >-- > >Mickey Coggins > >http://www.rv8.ch/ > >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > > >I'm still building the wings so I haven't had to deal with fitting wing >roots yet. I doubt that they are prepunched there because that will by a >custom fitted area. > >The factory told me that the fuse structure is prepunched for the floor >nutplates. > >Charlie Listers, Are the newer 8 floors pre-punched for nutplates? Mine 80372 wasn't. It simply had pilot holes for the screws in the floor skins. All underlying structure was undrilled. To those who are not yet to the fuselage stage, Vans only uses #8 screws on the most forward cockpit floor skins. This entails the area under the pilot's seat and the foot wells for the GIB (which are on either side of the pilot's seat). Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2004
From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com>
Subject: Countersinks on Wing Spar...
(not processed: message from valid local sender) I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and how do you prevent it? - Matt www.rv7a.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Steve Waltner <swaltner(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar...
Date: Nov 07, 2004
On Nov 7, 2004, at 3:55 PM, Matt Johnson wrote: > > I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the > fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, > the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly > round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a > problem? and > how do you prevent it? > > - Matt > www.rv7a.com I ran into the same issue and made a post about it to the RV-8 Yahoo group last year around Christmas time. Hopefully this repost will help... ============= I ran into the same issue with poor countersunk holes when trying to follow Van's instructions. I found the process outlined on Dan Checkoway's web site much easier. http://www.rvproject.com/20020503.html I ran a bit through each of the holes to get them up to the "correct" size, then took the scrap bar stock from what formed the W-726 tie-down spacers and clamped that to the back side of the flange. I used a drill bit to get the two holes alligned, then I was able to use the countersink bit and drill down to the full size. With the bar stock clamped to the back side of the flange, the CS bit didn't wander around as the hole was enlarged. I've got a couple picture posted at: http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-1.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-2.jpg http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-3.jpg Steve ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Prop Gov bracket
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Thanks for the picture. You have the "other" bracket that I saw. That is not the one Vans now sells for the MT but it may be what I end up with. Thanks, John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Re: Special N-Number reservation
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Listers, I'd like to add my experience regarding N-number reservation. Some years back I built a Kitfox and applied for the special N-number reservation when construction was nearly completed. FAA notified the State of MN and they promptly assessed me use tax (sales tax) on the kit, engine, and propeller. This was because I had not paid sales tax when I bought these components from the SkyStar plant in Idaho. Furthermore they assessed me a penalty for late payment of these taxes. I was able to plead my way out of the penalty but the use tax was still applied. Now that I'm building an RV-9A, I made an early N-number reservation and have been paying the use tax as I go on the empennage, wing, fuselage, and finishing kits. This spreads the use tax and avoids late payment assessments when I'm finally done. I've noted that the yearly MN sticker fee is declining. While the plane is designated "under construction" the fee is waived. Apparently the State of MN is showing a reduced value for the air frame each year it is under construction -- similar to the reduced assessment in auto license plates as the car gets older... Either way the State gets its way. Joe Connell, RV-9A, N95JJ, #90216, Instrument Panel. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message
from valid local sender)
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Don't know if it will make a difference in your situation, but I've found that the single flute countersinks do a much nicer job than the multi-fluted type. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> Subject: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) > > I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, > the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and > how do you prevent it? > > - Matt > www.rv7a.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com>
Subject: Instrument Panel Etching
Date: Nov 07, 2004
Listers, I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your panel, paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling. I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me know. Thanks a bunch. Mark. http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Instrument Panel Etching
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Try Wayne at www.engravers.net Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Taylor Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching Listers, I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your panel, paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling. I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me know. Thanks a bunch. Mark. http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: Celebrate Freedom/Tuskegee Airmen Event
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Just a quick note to all of the TeamRV, Falcon Flight and OVRV members that flew in from Georgia,Texas and Ohio for this special event ... Thank you. You really helped us do something special. And you made me proud on so many different levels. Clearly because of what happened for the Airmen but in a way you probably don't realize, proud to be part of your group as well. Just think of the many metaphors. James E. Clark Celebrate Freedom Foundation Board member Chairman, 60th Anniversary Reunion of Tuskegee Airmen Event. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Redundant engine gauges
Date: Nov 08, 2004
This is in response to the poster who was thinking of installing redundant oil temp and pressure gauges. I wouldn't do it. If you need to have a set of traditional gauges because you don't trust the computerized device, then you shouldn't bother with the $3500 computerized device in the first place. Re stability of windows. Windows can be almost perfectly stable when it exists within a "vacume". I.E. all inputs are of known values, there are no network or peripheral connections, etc. An example of this is the Avidyne (CERTIFICATED) displays. As recently as 2 years ago, they ran on a stub (software term for a version of code that does not include all drivers) of Windows NT 4. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Flap overspeed.
Date: Nov 08, 2004
After I was signed off to fly my '4, my instructor asked for a gentlemans agreement that I not carry passengers until I had 10 more hours of time under my belt. I concured that it made sense. On one of my first solo trips, I landed at New Haven. I grabbed a coffee and taxied out for departure. I pushed the throttle in and the tail seemed to come up much faster than usual. I remember thinking that it was unusual, but was busy flying the plane and resolved I'd think about it later. The the plane popped off the runway with what appeared to be little or no angle of attack. Hmmm. As I left the ground, I pushed the nose over expecting the usual RV acceleration through 120 mph during an easy cruise climb. Hmm. I wasn't accelerating. So I looked around and noticed that my flaps were FULL down. Total time from when I pushed the throttle in to when I retracted the flaps was about 15 seconds. Airspeed never got over 90 mph. It was very very obvious that something was not right. It now seems inconceivable that someone could fly around with full flaps and not notice the airplane SHOUTING at them is, if not wrong, then at least very different. But thats not fair. To a new RV pilot, I'd bet an RV with full flaps accelerates and climbs about as well as most spam cans. When I realized my flaps were fully down, I was still climbing at 700 fpm. Better than the 152 I had done my primary training in could do on a good day. With that said, RETRACT FLAPS is now on my engine start checklist. If I want them down for a short field takeoff, then I lower them again after my runup. Also, just prior to taking the runway, I have a flow that I use. I start at the top right of the instrument panel and work my way down the left bulkhead. It includes a check for: Oil pressure fuel pressure boost pump flap position mixture pitch trim Don "All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message
from valid local sender)
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Steve & Listers, I purchased an entire set of the single flute countersinks from Avery Tools on the advice of folks on the RV List. For use with a high speed pneumatic drill, they do offer an advantage. However they also have a down side. The single hole tends to get clogged up with cutting chips. Constantly clearing out the chips slows down progress noticibly. I've found that using the standard 3 flute countersinks using a slower speed electric drill works best. The standard countersinks are also cheaper to purchase. Charlie Kuss > > From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> > Date: 2004/11/07 Sun PM 10:03:18 EST > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flap overspeed.
One of the exercises that Mike Seager put me through during RV transition training was taking off with the flaps down. At least in the RV-6 I couldn't tell the difference. But that was with only .3 hours of RV flight time. I'd sure know now. I've got to agree with the others... checklists! Donald Mei wrote: > >After I was signed off to fly my '4, my instructor asked for a gentlemans >agreement that I not carry passengers until I had 10 more hours of time >under my belt. > >I concured that it made sense. On one of my first solo trips, I landed at >New Haven. I grabbed a coffee and taxied out for departure. I pushed the >throttle in and the tail seemed to come up much faster than usual. I >remember thinking that it was unusual, but was busy flying the plane and >resolved I'd think about it later. > >The the plane popped off the runway with what appeared to be little or no >angle of attack. Hmmm. > >As I left the ground, I pushed the nose over expecting the usual RV >acceleration through 120 mph during an easy cruise climb. Hmm. I wasn't >accelerating. So I looked around and noticed that my flaps were FULL down. > >Total time from when I pushed the throttle in to when I retracted the flaps >was about 15 seconds. Airspeed never got over 90 mph. It was very very >obvious that something was not right. > >It now seems inconceivable that someone could fly around with full flaps and >not notice the airplane SHOUTING at them is, if not wrong, then at least >very different. But thats not fair. To a new RV pilot, I'd bet an RV with >full flaps accelerates and climbs about as well as most spam cans. When I >realized my flaps were fully down, I was still climbing at 700 fpm. Better >than the 152 I had done my primary training in could do on a good day. > >With that said, RETRACT FLAPS is now on my engine start checklist. If I >want them down for a short field takeoff, then I lower them again after my >runup. > >Also, just prior to taking the runway, I have a flow that I use. I start at >the top right of the instrument panel and work my way down the left >bulkhead. It includes a check for: > >Oil pressure >fuel pressure >boost pump >flap position >mixture >pitch trim > >Don > > >"All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create >the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Cook" <Dugcook(at)cox.net>
Subject: Deburring
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Try countersinking with a cordless screwdriver. Get the hex adapter and countersink from Avery - Best tool I've used. The slow speed of the cordless screwdriver gives excellent control for countersinking. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Hi, What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what solvent to use? Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? Many thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Find out which wash primer it is. Some require that a top coat is applied with in 8 hrs of application. > >Hi, > >What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for >a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the >big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of >solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes >the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what >solvent to use? > >Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? > >Many thanks, >Mickey > >-- >Mickey Coggins >http://www.rv8.ch/ >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message
from valid local sender)
Date: Nov 08, 2004
True. I sprayed the little guys with PAM and it helps with this problem. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) > > Steve & Listers, > I purchased an entire set of the single flute countersinks from Avery Tools on the advice of folks on the RV List. For use with a high speed pneumatic drill, they do offer an advantage. However they also have a down side. The single hole tends to get clogged up with cutting chips. Constantly clearing out the chips slows down progress noticibly. > I've found that using the standard 3 flute countersinks using a slower speed electric drill works best. The standard countersinks are also cheaper to purchase. > Charlie Kuss > > > > > > From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> > > Date: 2004/11/07 Sun PM 10:03:18 EST > > To: > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Grand Rapids EFIS : Warning, long babble
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
This should have appeared last week, but somehow my address book didn't get it to the RV list. Vince ... my replies marked with ***** Vince, I'm starting to warm up to the idea of the GRT EFIS & EIS combo. It's a lot of eggs in one basket should something fail in flight (and at work it's not uncommon for our flight rated MFDs to degrade/fail in the labs) *****I can't speak for reliability with only 5+ hours but so far, mine works perfectly. and personally I have this fear about the plane being broken into for easy to steal higher priced avionics. This seems a tempting target. Oh well. *****I can say that any moron who is dumb enough to try to steal one should be shot for being a moron. I say this because the unit could be easily traced (small market) and because there is so much stuff behind the panel to remove that it would be nigh impossible to get it out in one piece. Also the magnetometer is in the wing. I'm sure there are folks out there who would buy an unboxed unit with cut wires hanging off, no documentation, and no accessories but SHEESH... Well, shoot them too. OK, so it's the best idea since sliced bread. But what are the current annoyances with it? ******It needs to interface with a DVD player, an the most important one. INFLIGHT WX WOULD ABSOLUTEY RULE! Any false alarms generated like typical startup conditions before ideal tolerances are obtainable? ****No. The oil pressure and fuel pressure give an alarm, but they go away as soon as you get things going. You want them to alarm when the engine isn't running in order to check the system and sensors. I purposely did NOT use the audible alarm function. The blinking panel light and onscreen warnings are quite enough, particularly during the first few flights when you are tweaking limits. I'd wager that if the audible warnings were on, you'd take your headset off for the first 5 hours... and that's not good. I might hook up the audible warning buzzer later, but probably not. Do you use the altitude encoder to your TX? ****Yes They show no pictures of anything but main displays. Do you have any pictures of the setup menus? ****No, but they are quite easy and straightforward on the EFIS. The EIS requires you to read the manual VERY closely.... but it's not a big deal after you've seen it. For example, a common action would be to setup barometric pressure. ****The baro knob is active on the PFD of the EFIS. All you do is turn it. No different than having an ordinary altimeter. How many steps and what buttons/knob combinations get you there. I hope it's not all push button for this. ****No problems at all. How accurate is the heading and what were the considerations they have about mounting it near a wing tip strobe power pack? How involved in calibrating it and the rest of the sensors? ****The heading seems right on to me right out of the box. I have mine mounted near the strobe head and haven't noticed any ill effect. Calibrating the EIS sensors for CHT, EGT, oil pressure, fuel pressure requires little or no work. The fuel flow and fuel level sensors have a calibration instruction page. The fuel level is easy enough. The fuel flow requires burning a few tanks of gas to validate. I'm burning the gas as fast as the wx will allow! I have float type fuel senders - any issue there? No. Any other installation nice to knows along those kind of lines? ***Not that I can think of. I want to use the MFD as the ammeter for the whole plane. Did you and if so what did it take to make that happen? ****Yes. I bought their ammeter thingy. Hall effect sensor, IIRC. It is a coil that you simply run the alternator wire through. Mine monitors the alternator wire just before the main buss, IIRC. The GPS page is sparce and more Software is promised in the future. What can it do now and what's the latest on when they will updgrade it? ****I haven't had time to fully explore the GPS pages yet, but they're very nice. I bought a new Lowrance 1000 unit so I'd have a backup if the EFIS ever fried. It's not really necessary. I could have (maybe should have?) bought a CHEAP $100 GPS to drive the EFIS map and it would have been just fine. More specifically, the EFIS map shows airports, extended centerlines, obstacles, soon to have terrain IIRC, and who knows what else? I'm still exploring it. What are the limitations and usefullness of the G-meter readings? ****You simply turn in on in the EFIS setup menu and it pops up in the lower left of the screen. It's fun to watch it. 2 Gs are all I've pulled so far.... still getting engine squawks and other items fixed... acro to come later. I haven't found any picture of it on their display. Is it actually usable during acro and does it keep the max high/low or just show instanteaous in small font? ****Um, I'm not sure about the min max memory but I'll bet that it does. I see no notice about an online user's manual other than one is going to be out late but that was a while ago. Do you have a soft copy of one you could send? ****I have a preliminary manual, but I'd prefer not to send it out. GRT is supposed to have a real manual out soon. Mine has no screen shots and has a few blank spots in it still. Thanks! Lucky Macy *****FWIW, my backups for the EFIS are an LRI angle of attack device, which is very nice, BTW, a wet compass, a Navaid w/skidball, and the Lowrance GPS, which will run fine on the internal battery if the main battery pukes. I don't intend to fly IFR with this but probably could if I wanted to, but this is a sportplane! > No, they don't pay me to say this stuff....but they should!!! > > Vince Frazier > F-1H Rocket, N540VF > http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html <http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html> ________________________________ From: chris macy [mailto:luckymacy(at)comcast.net] Subject: GRT efis and panel paint: Warning, long babble Vince, You are a so right about the GRT EFIS! I read up a bunch on the GRT and called them up afterwards yesterday. In short, I was impressed and ordered it. The more I thought about how the relatively low cost systems like this probably calculate their pitch and heading info I think theirs is the safest if you were actually depending your life upon it with respect to accuracy of displayed info. Their web site and BMTs and other web sites are there for others to study and ask the companies questions. Here's a starter. http://www.grtavionics.com/compare.htm Can you tell me more specifically how responsive & accurate the wind speed and direction info is as far as you can tell? Have you ever seen the wind sock shift on way and the graphics not change or lag a lot? ***** not that I can tell One of the things we talked about was my G-meter idea and Todd seemed to really like it. Here's what he wrote back to me after the conversation "We have no problem adding features like this. We are going to add optional voice indication of the G meter and tone. We will be working on a separate page for Acro. We welcome any suggestions you may have." Love these guys already. They sent me a few attachments including a full size screen shot showing the G meter stuff. It's great. I'll attach it. It already shows max high/low and current. The thing that really sold me was that 10 page impressions of usage http://www.grtavionics.com/Impressions.htm Have you ever tried that HITS down to the runway as the one usage write up did? Looked cool and a real potential last resort life saver if one was in a legit holy you know what weather bind, engine out, what have you. ***** I haven't figured out the HITS yet. I've only got 6.1 hours on the plane and other items have been more important. As an avionics test guy for Boeing by profession myself, I can relate to the Boeing guy doing the design. I think it would be an awesome toy for a Boeing pilot by trade to stick on of these in his plane. The design is so open ended and has so much growth potential that the new tricks like weather and traffic and textured terrain will continue to roll out for years to come and they insist the SW will continue to be free. Wow. For my personal taste, the immediate Dynon shortcomings it overcomes is that it's not all push buttons and the display is the "right" size and width for my RV8 and getting older eyes. And it's engine monitor page really blows me away. I'm an idiot for not looking at it sooner. Stuff like the time history and the percent power displayed are just so cool. I feel dumb now for whacking their GPS page. I know when it's finished it will look as good if not better than anything else in the price range. But it's actually very good right now. You just have to read the details on what it does and reacts to where you are flying. The internal GPS is now an option and so the new SW has mission planning built in. It's not Star Wars yet but it's functional and enough to accompany the new HW. The initial cost isn't cheap but the sum of what it does now and what it will further grow to do in the future makes it a bargain and nothing else touches it for under $8K. I'm so glad I'm building slow ;-) Gave me time to discover these guys. Vince you are a genius! ;-) Thanks a bunch for directing me towards them. ********GENIUS? Please tell my wife. BTW, what brand of panel paint did you use on the panel? It looks textured and flat. ******** Krylon Wrinkle paint. Looking forward to comparing notes with you in the future on it. ******* me too. lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel. Randy Lervold > Hi, > > What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for > a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the > big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of > solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes > the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what > solvent to use? > > Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? > > Many thanks, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com>
Subject: Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar...
(not processed: message from valid local sender) I found that by using an electric drill the slow speed prevented the chipping on the inside diameter. I cleaned up my previous ones with a dremel and smooth bit. But all new holes are being done with an electric drill and they are coming out nice with no chipping. - Matt Johnson www.rv7a.com -----Original Message----- From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:03:18 -0800 Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from valid local sender) > > Don't know if it will make a difference in your situation, but I've > found > that the single flute countersinks do a much nicer job than the > multi-fluted > type. > > Steve Zicree > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message > from > valid local sender) > > > > > > I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for > the > fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done, > > the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly > round, > in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and > > how do you prevent it? > > > > - Matt > > www.rv7a.com > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
"RV List"
Subject: moving front stick aft 4"
Date: Nov 08, 2004
I spent this weekend solving one of my few complaints with RV's; that being that the control stick is placed forward such that the pilot has to extend their arm a fair amount in normal flying. I personally prefer the control stick to be closer to me so that I have complete range of motion (with no interference) while maintaining a comfortable reclined seating position. This can be done; I sacrificed a stock RV-4 control torque tube weldment over the weekend and worked out all the geometry that ultimately moved the front stick aft a full 4.0". This placement feels very good. I will now build the proper fixturing and make a new control torque tube from scratch without the cobble. I just wanted to let people know that this change is not that hard. Larry E. James Bellevue, WA HR2 fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Date: Nov 08, 2004
FYI for those interested in some common space to share and learn info about the Grand Rapids Tech EFIS, Graphic Engine Monitoring and Moving Map Display. * Your group information: Group name: GRT_EFIS Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS Group email address: GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com FYI for those interested in some common space to share and learn info about the Grand Rapids Tech EFIS, Graphic Engine Monitoring and Moving Map Display. * Your group information: Group name: GRT_EFIS Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS Group email address: GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Heat muff for carburated engines only
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Usually it is because the exhaust pipes are routed differently for fuel injected engines and the heat muff for carburated engines may not fit. Try it and see if it fits. If it does then you are OK. Mike Robertson >From: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)allstream.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "Matronics rv list" >Subject: RV-List: Heat muff for carburated engines only >Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:31:32 -0600 > > > I just received my heat muff from > Van's > The instructions say "for carburated engines >only" > Since my engine will be fuel injection I wonder why they have > this restriction? > > >GEORGE H. INMAN >ghinman(at)allstream.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
> >I ordered the double function pressure switch from vans and therefore >have a backup which is a low pressure warning. I like it. This is the way to go. "Idiot" lights serve as a back-up for the gauges and as a back-up for an inattentive pilot. Nice to have them on oil pressure, temperature, voltage, and especially fuel. An oil pressure idiot light naturally self-tests during the starting sequence. It can be a bit tricky to get the other functions to self-test, but is possible. Press-to-test type indicators are a possibility, but only test the bulb, not the circuit or the sensor. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar...
I found that if you run the drill slowly, and press down on the cage very firmly, the countersinks come out pretty well. A little duct tape on the face of the cage helps too. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: IO snorkle to cowl baffle?
Date: Nov 08, 2004
-8 Builders with IO-360 using Van's VA-132 horizonal induction snorkle, Installation Instructions with the above snorkle induction system are very sparce and with illustrations no help to me in mating the snorkle in the area of Van's cowl baffle part 3 (forward left front side). An example of some confusion, the top left side of the snorkle is about an inch further outboard than the forward projecting cowl baffle part 3. Does anyone have more info, drawings, measurments and/or photos to clarify this area? Examples of how others solved the marriage of the snorkle (with filter) to this baffling will be much appreciated. Thanks, Jack, Red Wing, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: 3/16 inch bolts???
While building the wing, I found it amusing that the instructions called for "3/16 inch bolts" to attach the jig bracket (angle) to the outboard wing rib. I wonder how many folks have gone to the hardware store and naively asked for 3/16 inch bolts. Kind of like being sent out for a "frammis" or a bucket of prop wash. :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
If you intend to so any real painting at all, you really should pick up a quart of wax/degreaser from you local auto paint supplier. This is what you to wipe the surface with prior to any paint. Coleman is a very good degreaser and cheap cheap. But it is not the same as the wax/degreaser for sure. They do not smell the same, nor apply the same. I use the coleman to pre-wipe parts, gets all that oily crud off, then a final wipe with the wax/degreaser just before paint. I am not a painter but I spent nights and weekends for 6 weeks on my 6 in a professional automotive paint shop that paints high end stuff (jags, Mercedes, and BMW's), and this wax/degreaser liquid was sprayed on as the last weapon before either primer or paint was applied. Mike Stewart -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold Subject: Re: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel. Randy Lervold > Hi, > > What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for > a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the > big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of > solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes > the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what > solvent to use? > > Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? > > Many thanks, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: moving front stick aft 4"
Hi, Is the position of your stick going to be much different that this one: http://www.rvwoody.com/Stick.html I've got one of these, and the stock stick. I'll try the both and see which one I like better. Mickey >... I sacrificed a stock RV-4 control torque tube weldment >over the weekend and worked out all the geometry that ultimately moved the >front stick aft a full 4.0". This placement feels very good. I will now >build the proper fixturing and make a new control torque tube from scratch >without the cobble. I just wanted to let people know that this change is >not that hard. ... -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Date: Nov 08, 2004
I'm not counting on the these protective primers to support a base coat. I'm removing them where I want to paint and spraying an etching primer first, scuffing and then shooting the base coat/top coat. I think it will be a more durable finish when you can be sure of the compatibility of the products... Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins Subject: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question Hi, What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what solvent to use? Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? Many thanks, Mickey -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Stall Horn
Guys, Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that I'm putting in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for something like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for $740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway, if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let me know... Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D wiring... Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Stall Horn
Hi Mark If you use a audio stall warning alarm it will need to be loud to hear it above engine noise and past your headset, also possibly under great stress in bad weather! To prevent alarming my passengers on landing I decided to just used a red light adjacent to the airspeed indicator on my 6A, works great except that I cannot see it during pre-flight inspection. On the 7A I am building my stall warning will be a dome shaped red light mounted up through the glare shield in my direct line of forward vision and also visible during walk around (it is interesting to see the stall light come on momentarily at 150 IAS during a roll). In my opinion the Safe Flight stall warning system is the biggest rip-off in all of aviation, my complete system will cost less than $25. George in Langley -----Original Message----- Guys, Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that I'm putting in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for something like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for $740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway, if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let me know... Thanks, --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D wiring... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Date: Nov 08, 2004
It should also be noted that the type of cloth you use can have a big impact on the amount of lint. Also, once clean, be sure to use a tack cloth to get the last of the lint. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question > > If you intend to so any real painting at all, you really should pick up > a quart of wax/degreaser from you local auto paint supplier. This is > what you to wipe the surface with prior to any paint. > > Coleman is a very good degreaser and cheap cheap. But it is not the same > as the wax/degreaser for sure. They do not smell the same, nor apply the > same. I use the coleman to pre-wipe parts, gets all that oily crud off, > then a final wipe with the wax/degreaser just before paint. > > I am not a painter but I spent nights and weekends for 6 weeks on my 6 > in a professional automotive paint shop that paints high end stuff > (jags, Mercedes, and BMW's), and this wax/degreaser liquid was sprayed > on as the last weapon before either primer or paint was applied. > > Mike Stewart > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question > > > Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel. > > Randy Lervold > > > > Hi, > > > > What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for > > a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the > > big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of > > solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes > > the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what > > solvent to use? > > > > Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? > > > > Many thanks, > > Mickey > > > > -- > > Mickey Coggins > > http://www.rv8.ch/ > > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Horn
What about a "backup" beeper? Kind of like the beeper that comes with the MicroMonitor. Sounds like a truck backing up but it get's your attention. I like the light idea too. czechsix(at)juno.com wrote: > > >Guys, > >Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that I'm putting in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for something like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for $740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway, if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let me know... > >Thanks, > >--Mark Navratil >Cedar Rapids, Iowa >RV-8A N2D wiring... > >Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! >Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Stall Horn
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Mark, The Europa aircraft (glass) uses a pressure transducer that has a port in the leading edge around the 16 degree angle point and they adjust the transducer to trip at the speed they want. You could set it for 5 mph over stall or what ever you want. the contacts can run what ever alarm you want. Kind of neat way to do it. Jim RV9A N599RV (reserved) (ex owner of an Europa- nice plane) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re: IO snorkle to cowl baffle?
Jack, I have a couple of photos on my web site of what I did on my 7A. I think the 8 is similar. There's also a photo of my Whirl Wind Prop there for those interested. http://users.aol.com/n67bt Bob Trumpfheller <<-8 Builders with IO-360 using Van's VA-132 horizonal induction snorkle,---- Jack, Red Wing, MN>> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Date: Nov 08, 2004
More specifically, Dupont 3939S Enamel and Lacquer Cleaner. Metal prep and not as hot(stong) as normal lacquer thinner or some solvents that will strip primers. Has much lower flash point so it evaporates slower which makes cleaning easier. BTW, it won't easily wipe off Sharpie lines like normal thinners will. Available at any auto parts store or paint specialty shop that handles Dupont paint (PPG & SW have equivalents). Bill S Maumelle, Ark 7a QB fuse -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Subject: RE: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question If you intend to so any real painting at all, you really should pick up a quart of wax/degreaser from you local auto paint supplier. This is what you to wipe the surface with prior to any paint. Coleman is a very good degreaser and cheap cheap. But it is not the same as the wax/degreaser for sure. They do not smell the same, nor apply the same. I use the coleman to pre-wipe parts, gets all that oily crud off, then a final wipe with the wax/degreaser just before paint. I am not a painter but I spent nights and weekends for 6 weeks on my 6 in a professional automotive paint shop that paints high end stuff (jags, Mercedes, and BMW's), and this wax/degreaser liquid was sprayed on as the last weapon before either primer or paint was applied. Mike Stewart -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold Subject: Re: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel. Randy Lervold > Hi, > > What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for > a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the > big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of > solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes > the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what > solvent to use? > > Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad? > > Many thanks, > Mickey > > -- > Mickey Coggins > http://www.rv8.ch/ > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re:Stall Horn
If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying - then you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!1 Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Allen" <ajdubers(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Flying with flaps down
Date: Nov 08, 2004
If he had full flaps I bet he couldn't climb and get much more than 100-110mph..... -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com Subject: RV-List: Flying with flaps down Fellow RVers, This friend of mine has an RV-7A just like mine. He took off from an airport after a fuel stop, and flew about 5 miles with the flaps full down. I'm sure he was well over the white arc, maybe 150 mph. When he got to his destination he looked everything over, and can find no damage. Has anyone else ever done this? I just want to put my, err I mean his, mind at ease. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying 64 hours) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2004
From: "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re:Stall Horn
Rather than a stall warning, I think some sort of angle of attack indicator is much more useful. There are several on the market. Everything I've read indicates that AOA is a good thing to have. I've got one. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re: Stall Horn
In a message dated 11/8/2004 10:40:12 AM Pacific Standard Time, czechsix(at)juno.com writes: Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to what's used on spam cans? ========================================== ACI ROWLANDS LTD has one. They are listed in the Yeller Pages. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 08, 2004
Subject: Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
In a message dated 11/8/2004 8:46:11 AM Pacific Standard Time, randy(at)romeolima.com writes: Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel. It's Naphtha, people! Say it with me three times...really fast. I have no idea what Naptha is, but I do know what NAFTA is. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Listers, I found a great web site and description of the various systems, components, and how they work. With the messages over the years about these systems. Which sump part does what. Will this part fit this engine and so forth, I felt it appropriate to archive this great website where the author has taken the time to lay it all out, pictures and all, with detailed descriptions. Zooming in on the pics and you can actually easily read the text clearly. That's a nice change of pace. Also good discussions on exactly what each part is doing when your inverted and how it all works, various sump modifications, system selection based on engine model, all the little doodad parts and descriptions, components and dimensions, kit options, blah blah blah. First time I ever ran across a site so thorough on the matter. Enjoy, Mike Stewart Toying with the idea S8 painting interior fuse http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/invert.php ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Horn
Just read Europa has filed for bankruptcy. > >Mark, > The Europa aircraft (glass) uses a pressure transducer that has a >port in the leading edge around the 16 degree angle point and they adjust >the transducer to trip at the speed they want. You could set it for 5 >mph over stall or what ever you want. the contacts can run what ever >alarm you want. Kind of neat way to do it. > >Jim >RV9A >N599RV (reserved) > >(ex owner of an Europa- nice plane) > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: P-MAG
Listers, I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical system. Stewart RV-4 Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: RV-6/6A Jigs available
Date: Nov 09, 2004
I have just removed my fuselage bottom from the jig. The jig is the wooden 'ladder' type from Vans' plans and I have removed the last two crossmembers to support the fuselage on the sawhorses. Free to a good home, for the cost of a single 2x4 (to replace the crossmembers) you get a complete jig. It's located in Flagstaff, AZ. I don't know of any builders up here or how many builders still need a jig, for that matter, so if someone doesn't take it I'll just disassemble it and reuse the lumber. I also have the wing jig; it's a freestanding jig built according to the plans that are on my website. It's made of cedar so it was perfect for building in my apartment living room. While I no longer need to work in an apartment, it'll still make a good riveting stand when I build my next RV unless someone decides to take it first. Also free to a good home. I won't deliver, sorry. Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Fuselage is now right way up! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Canopy Safety Latch
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Anybody have experience, positive or negative, with the canopy safety latch on the RV4? I'm installing the canopy and wondering if the extra latch is worth the trouble. I'm not convinced that it would really hold the thing down and it seems a bit flimsy. Steve Zicree ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Used Wing Cradle?? (Was: RV-6/6A Jigs available)
Looking for a wing cradle in Denver. If anyone has one (or a pair) that they are done with, it would save me the time of building my own. > >I have just removed my fuselage bottom from the jig. The jig is the wooden >'ladder' type from Vans' plans and I have removed the last two crossmembers >to support the fuselage on the sawhorses. Free to a good home, for the cost >of a single 2x4 (to replace the crossmembers) you get a complete jig. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: fuel tank process pictures
Date: Nov 09, 2004
I have been convinced by a good friend that I should post a series of building process pictures on my web site. The idea is to get a bunch of high quality photos in sequence to help others along. I have to admit, I have used the photos on everyone else's websites to get tips for my own project (RV 10). I will also be able to reference particular pictures when I get the inevitable questions that I answer every day. Hopefully you guys will be able to pick up some good tips. So here is my offer.....If any of you guys are willing to let me post pictures of your tanks, I will discount my labor for you by 20%. I would like to get one set of pictures for each of the popular models of aircraft. I also really want to get some of the modifications such as capacitive fuel senders and flop tubes. For the gentlemen who have recently ordered tanks and are in my schedule now, you may also consider my offer good (as long as it is not too late to get the picts.) Since I am revamping the website, please feel free to make any suggestions. Are there particular issues you would like to see addressed....pictures you would like to see? Thanks a bunch, Evan Johnson (530)351-1776 www.evansaviationproducts.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Re: Stall Horn
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Yes they did but there is a group that has bought them out. It is too good a plane to disappear. The concept is what counts for the stall warning. We are experimenters - right ?? I agree that a AOA is the best way to know what the wing is doing. Jim Nelson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Horn
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Regarding the best way to know what the wing is doing, I would suggest getting some good acro training. When I was getting my private, I was troubled by how much time was spent learning what not to do. Don't bank beyond this, don't climb steeper than that, and for god's sake, don't spin. It left me feeling like the plane was just waiting to bite me if I went past some very sketchy limits. Shortly after getting my private, I got some good acro training from Sunrise Aviation. It makes a huge difference in my ability to "know what the wing is doing". This is just my experience, your mileage may vary. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Horn > > Yes they did but there is a group that has bought them out. It is too > good a plane to disappear. The concept is what counts for the stall > warning. We are experimenters - right ?? I agree that a AOA is the > best way to know what the wing is doing. > > Jim Nelson > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Bluecavu(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Re: BMA EFIS Lite G3
> I've read the archives........ > > Is there anyone on the list flying a BMA EFIS Lite G3 that cares to > volley a few messages with me? > > Thanks - Greg > Ditto Here... Apparently only one person replied to this inquiry by Greg? Anybody got an EFIS lite GIII yet? Any current users of BMA EFIS of any type that want to comment on the product they have? Any comments on the company? I'm struggling to decide what to do. Love the idea of the Elite GIII from what I read on the company website, but I've yet to hear anything from out there in the field/real-world. Scott N4ZW ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Safety Latch
I put mine on. It wasn't much trouble. Took about an hour. I haven't tested it though. ;-) steve zicree wrote: > >Anybody have experience, positive or negative, with the canopy safety latch on the RV4? I'm installing the canopy and wondering if the extra latch is worth the trouble. I'm not convinced that it would really hold the thing down and it seems a bit flimsy. > >Steve Zicree > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________ DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=PbYSVufyjj24HzG/bGsa1J1KVBmFaZCrIp+glFS3OSvFnSwysvxziL8+oIr4m+lXottbmhazFlYiHmHHTGTJqiBESrD9iWDC0DSlrHLjlyEBfi5u1wPTgbnw67yYdc/dNRcUO3MAjb7eYyQJUBMyuvvba+XyB+LSl+/Kpp4pgeY;
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Dan Reeves <williamdanielreeves(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Forward skins, Firewall Flange, Hinges - What gets dimpled /
countersunk? I am in the process of dimpling the F-772 forward bottom skin and the F-770 forward side skins. What gets dimpled and what gets countersunk when it comes to the firewall flange, the cowl hinges, and the skins? Thanks in advance! Dan RV-7A --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted oil system? http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> Subject: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:55:21 -0500 Listers, I found a great web site and description of the various systems, components, and how they work. With the messages over the years about these systems. Which sump part does what. Will this part fit this engine and so forth, I felt it appropriate to archive this great website where the author has taken the time to lay it all out, pictures and all, with detailed descriptions. Zooming in on the pics and you can actually easily read the text clearly. That's a nice change of pace. Also good discussions on exactly what each part is doing when your inverted and how it all works, various sump modifications, system selection based on engine model, all the little doodad parts and descriptions, components and dimensions, kit options, blah blah blah. First time I ever ran across a site so thorough on the matter. Enjoy, Mike Stewart Toying with the idea S8 painting interior fuse http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/invert.php ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2004
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
Bryan One neat feature of the RMI MicroMonitor is that it has a back up power supply feature. You add a small 1.8 amp/hour RG battery. The MicroMonitor's power switch has 3 positions OFF ON & BATTERY. It also has a trickle charge circuit to keep the back up battery charged. No single point of failure here. Charlie Kuss > >Good point on the engine monitor, however in my case, the power supply for >the entire engine monitor is common. Loose regulated power for the monitor >and you loose all EGTs, CHTs, tach, temps, pressures, fuel levels, >pressures, etc. I'd imagine other integrated engine monitors have similar >weaknesses. > >Come to think of it, what might provide some redundancy in engine condition >indication as well as add helpful info is one of those low oil sump level >alarms. IMO, that would be even better than a high temp/low pressure backup >indicator. A better plan... > >Bryan > > > >From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge > >Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 06:42:32 -0800 > > > ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > >For those concerned about back up oil temp and pressure, I think a engine > >monitor covering all cylinders is better instrumentation than your back up > >gauges. This gives you a better idea of what your engine is doing before > >you can sense/feel anything. The chances of a cylinder related problem is > >much higher than a oil temp/pressure gauge going out. I guess what I am > >trying to say is I dont understand why you want back up gauges, there are > >other areas you can improve to have a safer flight. No insults to anyone > >intended. > > >snipped > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Subject: Re: > Re:Canopy Safety Latch.
I reversed my canopy lock so that it pushes FORWARD to lock. I got an RV-4 canopy safety latch in my finish kit,which I can't use now. I think it would maybe save a canopy being dumped off ;so if anyone can use it you can have it. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers oldsfolks(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re:Stall Horn
An AOA system will give you a lot more than stall warning. Here is a very good article on AOA with Jerry VanGrunsven. Jerry is a very big supporter of AOA and has them in his RV's. _http://www.angle-of-attack.com/KitPlanes%20Article.pdf_ (http://www.angle-of-attack.com/KitPlanes%20Article.pdf) Rob Hickman RV-4 N401RH RV-10 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Safety Latch
Date: Nov 09, 2004
Steve, I never installed one on my -4 since the canopy latch still has plenty of friction after 12 years and 1100 hrs. of usage. It has never crept toward the unlatched position in flight. Then again, there's always the next flight!! YMMV Ivan Haecker -4 1115 hrs S. Cen. TX ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> Subject: RV-List: Canopy Safety Latch > > Anybody have experience, positive or negative, with the canopy safety latch on the RV4? I'm installing the canopy and wondering if the extra latch is worth the trouble. I'm not convinced that it would really hold the thing down and it seems a bit flimsy. > > Steve Zicree > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Date: Nov 09, 2004
I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the wing kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float arm to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left corner of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it there the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So if you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float arm in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task slow and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the Appox. 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram provided it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and right fuel tank. I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will be honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. Only when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the 90 degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way, she'll probably break clean off on you. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Lawson" <jlawson(at)grosseileairport.com>
Subject: Happy Birthday, Marines
Date: Nov 10, 2004
To all the Marines on the List: Happy 229th Birthday! Semper Fidelis, John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to bend the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and possibly jam. http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd Regards, /\/elson RV-7A Austin, TX On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote: > > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the wing > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float arm > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left corner > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it there > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So if > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float arm > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task slow > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the Appox. > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram provided > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and > right fuel tank. > > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will be > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. Only > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the 90 > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way, > she'll probably break clean off on you. > -- ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~ time, then break it again. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Aerotech Services - fuel bladders
From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net
Does anyone experience using fuel tank bladders from Aerotech Services? http://www.aerotechservicesinc.com/ I'm considering using this company to provide ferry tanks for my RV7A. Steve RV7A #2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Hodgson" <bob(at)hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Gary, Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done before. It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on the Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil separator to the breather fitting. Second difference, it's cheaper! Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works. It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump kit (vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone wants this, get in touch. Bob (UK) RV3B "finishing" (?) ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems > > > Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted > oil system? > > http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Canopy Stop - Plastic Cam Device
Date: Nov 10, 2004
0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From: contains an underline and numbers/letters I saw a neat device this weekend used to stop the canopy on an -8. It had a machined plastic component attached to the canopy rail near the middle of the canopy. The component attached to the moving canopy frame looked like a lobe off a cam. Was very ingenious device that stopped the canopy mid way, but required no pic to pull or latch to disengage. Just pull it forward and it released. Anyone know where I can get one of these? Thanks Bryan Jones ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <rv6(at)cableone.net>
Subject: RV-6 FS
Date: Nov 10, 2004
RV-6 FOR SALE Flying & ready for your paint scheme! First flight 1/03 83TTAF/Sens. Prop/SMOH O-320 160hp Slider - Electric trim/flaps - Dual controls - NICE !!! Asking $68K, serious inq's only Full details, pics, and contact info at website: myweb.cableone.net/racker (reply off-list only please) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hi All- For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system. The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the sump. FWIW Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
,
Subject: RV7 Gear legs For Sale
Date: Nov 10, 2004
New, never used RV 7 gear legs for sale. (tialdragger) $295+ plus actual shipping. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: AOA Utility
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Much email discussion concerns back-up safety systems in an RV. My opinion - an AOA system, with whatever flags / warnings you're comfortable with - is an extremely worthwhile investment. I'm a FNG in the RV world - started assembling my RV-8A emp kit last week - but do have nearly 7K hrs. flying Navy tactical jets. I find the AOA discussions interesting. To me, it's a preference / what you are used to discussion. I always flew AOA - not just in the landing pattern, but for max range / max endurance and edge of the envelope maneuvering - including climb. Most of the time after the initial AOA / Airspeed crosscheck, I couldn't tell you my landing airspeed. Over the years I experienced several pitot-static problems and flew the entire mission with only AOA. We modified our squadron jets (VA-127 Adversary) to move the AOA gage from the left knee to the top left of the instrument panel cluster, right below the AOA indexers (which worked only with the gear down). During heavy buffet maneuvering, a quick glance at the AOA gage sometimes proved invaluable. And part of the gouge on A-4 spin recovery was to check the AOA gage to determine what kind of spin you were in - full positive for upright, full negative for inverted, and if the AOA gage wasn't pegged, you weren't spinning but were in a high speed departure. It made a huge difference in selection of recovery procedures. Navy AOA flying is certainly not entirely applicable to the RV community, but would seem to have at least as much RV utility as some of the pricey glass cockpit avionics options folks are installing. Paul Valovich "Booger" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 10, 2004
got a link? -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi All- > > For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro > Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the > other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system. > The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven > system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the > sump. > > FWIW > > Glen Matejcek > aerobubba(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > got a link? -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Hi All- For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system. The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the sump. FWIW Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Yes, you have added some obstacles. Good point! Thanks. >From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST) > > >And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to >bend >the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and >possibly >jam. > >http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd > >Regards, > /\/elson > RV-7A > Austin, TX > >On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote: > > > > > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the >wing > > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float >arm > > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left >corner > > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it >there > > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So >if > > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float >arm > > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task >slow > > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm > > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the >Appox. > > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram >provided > > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and > > right fuel tank. > > > > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will >be > > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. >Only > > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the >90 > > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear > > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way, > > she'll probably break clean off on you. > > > >-- >~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~ > time, then break it again. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender or is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably be looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood. Bruce >From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST) > > >And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to >bend >the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and >possibly >jam. > >http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd > >Regards, > /\/elson > RV-7A > Austin, TX > >On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote: > > > > > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the >wing > > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float >arm > > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left >corner > > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it >there > > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So >if > > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float >arm > > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task >slow > > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm > > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the >Appox. > > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram >provided > > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and > > right fuel tank. > > > > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will >be > > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. >Only > > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the >90 > > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear > > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way, > > she'll probably break clean off on you. > > > >-- >~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~ > time, then break it again. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 10, 2004
No Different whe it comes to the vac.pump pad fitting. Many people can & do use the same vac.pump pad fitting for the Christen systems. This keeps the momentary "drop" in pressure from happening. That being said, the Christen system is still significatly more expensive than the "clone" which from what I've seen is basically the same thing, just a copy. Just an FYI.. Cheers, Stein Bruch Rv6's, Minneapolis (one with Inverted fuel/oil). -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hodgson Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems Gary, Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done before. It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on the Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil separator to the breather fitting. Second difference, it's cheaper! Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works. It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump kit (vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone wants this, get in touch. Bob (UK) RV3B "finishing" (?) ----- Original Message ----- > From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> > Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems > > > Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted > oil system? > > http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm > > Gary A. Sobek > "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, > 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA > http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, Bendix, Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........) Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ ........................................................................... Subject: RV-List: P-MAG Listers, I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical system. Stewart RV-4 Colorado ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
I Installed a big red light on the dash (sunlight seeable) wired to a micro switch that senses the canopy rod as it engages the lock (hole). Adjusted the micro switch to be sensitive (picks at the very end of the rod engagement) in that if any creep were to occur in the rod unlatching the big red light would come on well before actual disengagement of the rod from the hole. I can't take off with a red light on (hopefully) & checklist states to observe red light on to verify working. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free to call or email me. Evan Johnson (530)351-1776 cell www.evansaviationproducts.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) > > > And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to bend > the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and possibly > jam. > > http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd > > Regards, > /\/elson > RV-7A > Austin, TX > > On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote: > > > > > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the wing > > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float arm > > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left corner > > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it there > > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So if > > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float arm > > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task slow > > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm > > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the Appox. > > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram provided > > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and > > right fuel tank. > > > > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will be > > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. Only > > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the 90 > > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear > > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way, > > she'll probably break clean off on you. > > > > -- > ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~ > time, then break it again. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Here's a link to E-mag and P-mag info. These things sound like a great solution, especially emag. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) > > > What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, Bendix, > Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard > Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........) > > > Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ > > ........................................................................... > Subject: RV-List: P-MAG > > > Listers, > I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr > now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's > own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel > consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right > side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for > a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical > system. > > Stewart RV-4 Colorado > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Let's try that emag link again. And it's the Pmag that looks the coolest. http://www.emagair.com/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) > > > What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, Bendix, > Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard > Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........) > > > Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ > > ........................................................................... > Subject: RV-List: P-MAG > > > Listers, > I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr > now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's > own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel > consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right > side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for > a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical > system. > > Stewart RV-4 Colorado > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
Date: Nov 10, 2004
I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end for fear of it opening further un flight. Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open a few inches. What are the groups experiences? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open. It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4! 923te wrote: > >I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I >might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end >for fear of it opening further un flight. > >Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I >believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open >a few inches. >What are the groups experiences? > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: EMAproducts(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Stall warning etc.
To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed, These pilots weren't planning on an accident either! Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident? Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents Phase # accidents % Fatal of Flight T/O 451 33 Climb 61 52 Cruise 91 44 Maneuvering 294 69 Decent 76 72 Approach 201 39 Em. Ldg 64 28 Landing 269 6 Go around VFR 36 17 Go around IFR 3 100 UKN 276 34 This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it includes production and homebuilt aircraft. Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one time or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such a terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading cause of this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over. You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin accidents were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have been killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied? This puts it all in perspective! This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics. Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly www.riteangle.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hi tech solution. I keep a bright yellow cloth pin on my throttle anytime the canopy is open. Once Im ready to go, I remove it from the throttle cable and place it on the canopy handle. Its worked for me so far. I would have forgetten it a couple times in the beginning. I have a slider by the way. Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 140 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open. > It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took > off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he > couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind > would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible > combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch > it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4! > > 923te wrote: > >> >>I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I >>might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end >>for fear of it opening further un flight. >> >>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. >>I >>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only >>open >>a few inches. >>What are the groups experiences? >> >> >> >> > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > Van Arts Consulting Services > 3848 McHenry Ave > Suite #155-184 > Modesto, CA 95356 > 209-986-4647 > Ps 34:4,6 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: Re:Stall Horn
> >> If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying - >> then >> you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!! >> Now, now... I didn't mean to start a long thread on the merits of Stall Warning. I agree wholeheartedly that a stall warning device shouldn't replace good piloting skills and thorough knowledge of how an airplane handles and feels leading up to (and through) the stall. When I'm flying any airplane, I don't depend on the stall warning system to make up for carelessness on my part....my goal is to never allow myself to get into a situation where the stall warning would need to alert me of an impending stall that I'm not already well aware of. But...statistics say that some people get bit by stall/spin accidents year after year. Some of them were probably careless, ignorant or unfamiliar with the airplane, but not all of them...a number have been highly experienced pilots flying an airplane in which they had thousands of hours logged. How many of those statistics happened in airplanes with stall warning devices vs. those without, I don't know (i.e. I don't know how much of a safety ben efit a stall warning system is statistically). Stall warning doesn't guarantee my safety, but I don't think it means I'm paranoid or inept if I decide to put it in my airplane. I just think it's nice to have, just in case. There are other things on my airplane that are nice to have, but not necessary, like autopilot, attitude indicator (I'm VFR only), a fuel flow meter, a nosewheel, an electronic engine monitor with alarm, a GPS, etc. None of these devices should replace good piloting skills, judgement, or careful attention to flying/navigating the airplane. But all of them have been deemed useful and practical by ME for making MY flying experience safer and more convenient. I'm sure some will disagree, which is fine...but this is my airplane, my money and my butt in the seat, so I get to decide what goes in it and for what reasons : ) Some will assume that my decisions are based on lack of confidence in my flying abilities, and I don't expect anything I've said here will change their perception of me, or their perception of themselves that their superior abilities will never ever allow them get bit...to each their own. In the case of my stall warning system, I bought a microswitch and small piezo alarm and rolled my own. I have all of about $5 invested in it right now. I'm not convinced that spending upwards of $1K for a full-blown AOA system is worth it for MY goals (although I think AOA would be nice to have!). My original post was just asking about alternatives for the warning horn because my piezo alarm sounds, well, a bit more "alarming" than I want it to. I'd like it to get my attention but not give my passenger a heart attack. I'll take the advice of several folks and call an aircraft salvage yard... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D wiring.... Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Raven Hunter Studios" <info(at)ravenhunter.ca>
Subject: Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
we are rteceiving your e-mails you must have a virus ----- Original Message ----- From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) > > Let's try that emag link again. And it's the Pmag that looks the coolest. > http://www.emagair.com/ > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> > To: > Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) > > >> >> >> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, > Bendix, >> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard >> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........) >> >> >> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ >> >> > ........................................................................... >> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG >> >> >> Listers, >> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr >> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's >> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel >> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right >> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for >> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical >> system. >> >> Stewart RV-4 Colorado >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re:Stall Horn
From: "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net>
Makes perfect sense to me.. In addition to finding a different warning horn, you might be able to make one you have sound like you want. How does it sound if you wrap it in a layer of duct tape? Or, how about putting a 100ohm resistor in series with it? Regards, Matt- > --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "czechsix(at)juno.com" > > > >> >>> If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying - >>> then >>> you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!! >>> > > Now, now... > > I didn't mean to start a long thread on the merits of Stall Warning. I snip > would be nice to have!). My original post was just asking about > alternatives for the warning horn because my piezo alarm sounds, well, a > bit more "alarming" than I want it to. I'd like it to get my attention > but not give my passenger a heart attack. I'll take the advice of > several folks and call an aircraft salvage yard... > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D wiring.... > > > Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com! > Look for special offers at Best Buy stores. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: 24 Years of the RV-ator are here
Date: Nov 10, 2004
24 Years of the RVator books are here. (finally) See the description at: http://buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm We just unloaded 159 cases of the new RV-ator book and they are ready to go out the door. All customer backorders will go out today. All advertiser's and other owed complementary copies will go out tomorrow. Thank you everyone for your patience. Thanks, Andy Gold Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Raven Hunter Studios" <info(at)ravenhunter.ca>
Subject: Re: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
olease note we are receiving your e-mails you might want to check your system for a virus ----- Original Message ----- From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> Subject: RV-List: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) > > I Installed a big red light on the dash (sunlight seeable) wired to a > micro > switch that senses the canopy rod as it engages the lock (hole). Adjusted > the micro switch to be sensitive (picks at the very end of the rod > engagement) in that if any creep were to occur in the rod unlatching the > big > red light would come on well before actual disengagement of the rod from > the > hole. I can't take off with a red light on (hopefully) & checklist states > to > observe red light on to verify working. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Hi Bruce, I bent the original float arm to the specs outlined in the plans and was not happy with the results. After several iterations of using some wire that had similar dimensions but not as springy as the original I finally settled on a design (you can see from the www page the number tries and the final solution). One problem I ran into was making the loop that holds the float - the wire would expand too much while attaching the float and would not securely hold it. So I opted to safety the arm to the float. I also plan on on placing some proseal on the skin right above the float to prevent the float from hitting the skin itself and possibly denting it over time. Reason being that I carefully bent the float arm to maximize the space allowed and minimize the amount of fuel to be consumed before the fuel gauge would start working. Regards, /\/elson On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote: > > Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender or > is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety > wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a > hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably be > looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood. > Bruce > >> From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> >> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) >> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST) >> >> >> >> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to >> bend >> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and >> possibly >> jam. >> >> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd >> >> Regards, >> /\/elson >> RV-7A >> Austin, TX >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Hi Evan, The reasoning behind why I installed the flap door was to prevent fuel from sloshing over to the other bay while doing a slip while low on fuel (shame on me if I'm that low to begin with but I figured it was free insurance and peace of mind). At this time, I'm not concerned. There appeared to be plenty of clearance (3/8" to 1/2" if I recall) between the float, the flap, and stiffener by the time I got everything bent. I know that you build RV tanks for a living, based on your experience do you have concerns with my design? Thanks, /\/elson On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > > David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic > options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending > unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch > each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider > moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free > to call or email me. > > Evan Johnson > (530)351-1776 cell > www.evansaviationproducts.com > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
I noticed this also when I would rotate the fuel tank to quickly that the arm or float, do not know which one because it is all closed up hits the upper part of the skin. This does not a cure when rotated slowly or standard rate of rotation.l But I began to think that this is just the gravity weight of the float and arm itself in there. When you have fuel in there you will not have this problem due to the fuel tension and + G force in most of your normal flight maneuvers. I will not have any inverted systems on the 8 as you know with the standard senders and pick-ups. Thanks for the conversation. Bruce Gray RV8 #81745 >From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) >Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:13:30 -0600 (CST) > > >Hi Bruce, > >I bent the original float arm to the specs outlined in the plans and was >not >happy with the results. After several iterations of using some wire that >had >similar dimensions but not as springy as the original I finally settled on >a >design (you can see from the www page the number tries and the final >solution). >One problem I ran into was making the loop that holds the float - the wire >would expand too much while attaching the float and would not securely hold >it. >So I opted to safety the arm to the float. > >I also plan on on placing some proseal on the skin right above the float to >prevent the float from hitting the skin itself and possibly denting it over >time. Reason being that I carefully bent the float arm to maximize the >space >allowed and minimize the amount of fuel to be consumed before the fuel >gauge >would start working. > >Regards, > /\/elson > >On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote: > > > > > Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender >or > > is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety > > wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a > > hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably >be > > looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood. > > Bruce > > > >> From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> > >> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) > >> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST) > >> > > >> > >> > >> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had >to > >> bend > >> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and > >> possibly > >> jam. > >> > >> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd > >> > >> Regards, > >> /\/elson > >> RV-7A > >> Austin, TX > >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: Prop cable
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
on opie.wvnet.edu >Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I >believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open >a few inches. >What are the groups experiences? YES First time I flew out of Cincinnati class B airport, I forget its real name. But after taking off and exiting the Class B airspace, I noticed it was a little louder and a lot breezer. Located the problem, canopy was open about 2 inches. I have the slider canopy. Now I was not about to turn around and negotiate a landing back at the class B airfield, flew to the next airstrip on my route, about 10 minutes, landed and latched canopy. Tried to latch canopy in flight, no way. If I was strong enough, I would have probably bent or broken the canopy handle. Recommendation it this happens to you: 1. Fly the aircraft 2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely. 3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, the suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward (for the slider) latch locked. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
>> >What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, >Bendix, >Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard >Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........) > > >Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ Read all about it: http://www.emagair.com They're going on my RV10 engine someday if they prove to be reliable in the coming years. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
Date: Nov 10, 2004
I took off in my RV-6A tip up failing to engage the secondary latch. Apparently had not completely locked down the main canopy latch handle either. At around 300 ft the canopy popped open 6-8 " with a loud noise. I continued climbing to 3500 MSL and leveled off, I then found I could pull it down within an inch or so of the canopy rail but could not get it down far enough to lock. I estimate my speed was around 85-90 mph at that point but don't recall for certain. I slowed to around 65-70 MPH and found that reduce the lift sufficient to get the canopy down with a lot of pulling. However, I have since been informed (but have not tried it ) that if you slow down and deploy full flaps that the change in aircraft attitude makes it very easy to pull down and lock. Main thing, of course, is not to get distracted by a bit of noise and wind and fail to "FLY THE AIRPLANE". The aircraft is perfectly controllable with the canopy popped - although I don't think I would try a speed dash in that configuration {:>) Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end > for fear of it opening further un flight. > > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open > a few inches. > What are the groups experiences? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Stall warning etc.
on opie.wvnet.edu >To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed, >These pilots weren't planning on an accident either! >Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident? >Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents >Phase # accidents % Fatal >of Flight >T/O 451 33 >Climb 61 52 >Cruise 91 44 >Maneuvering 294 69 >Decent 76 72 >Approach 201 39 >Em. Ldg 64 28 >Landing 269 6 >Go around VFR 36 17 >Go around IFR 3 100 >UKN 276 34 > >This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it >includes production and homebuilt aircraft. Of all these accidents, how many of these planes had a stall warning device or AOA. Is the stall warning device required for production aircraft. Is it possible to get into a stall spin accident and actually have a stall warning device or AOA indicator. In a high speed stall, if I am correct, the amount of time between the stall warning and the stall is insufficient to avoid the stall. At least that is what happens in a snap roll, (I think, correct me if I am wrong). I have observed human nature too long to believe that any safety device will be 100% effective. I know there are people out there that will somehow figure out how to kill themselves in a stall spin accident regardless of any safety device installed in their aircraft. To answer your question do I know of anyone who plans on having an accident? Answer: YES, especially when they say: 1. It will never happen to me. 2. I can always recover from a stall before it goes into a spin. 3. What do you mean I stalled the aircraft, just because the stall warning went off did not mean we were about to stall! 4. I don't need spin training because I will never be in a stall. 5. If I have a stall warning device I will never enter into a stall spin accident. Please don't take this as a flame, but I earn a living in high risk sports, and the safety nuts are always telling me if only............(fill in the blank) no one would ever get hurt/killed etc. My response is if no one ever flew an airplane, no one would ever die in an airplane crash. How many people died in stall spin crashes in the year 1640! My point exactly!!! Don't get me wrong, I believe in safety, I fly akro with a parachute, even though it is not required. But, If one parachute is good, then two must be better and three will be better still and don't forget about one for the airplane. Where does the quest for ultimate absolute safety stop and common sense and training prevail? The best safety device and safety investment is a regularly schedule flight with a good CFI. It is my opinion that good training can overcome a lack of some safety devices and get you out of some real trouble if you ever get into it. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: richard dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
Hi D White, I used the diagram for firewall penetrations that was puhlished in the first issue 2001 of the RVator on page 18 . The cable was the one from the Van's catalog for the RV-6(all): CT BLUE VPROP 45.5 which is 45.5". I could send you a copy of the diagram if you don't have that issue. Regards, Richard Dudley -6A ready to move to the airport dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote: > >Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
Brad is working on the 6 cylinder models for the 0-540 guys. No big black box to mount, all self contained. Stewart RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
E-MAG Splash ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hey David, I really dont see any big problems with what you have done. As long as the float is not interfering with the flapper door you should be fine. In the aerobatic tanks you have to move the sender because the flop tube is in the first bay banging around, and that woud likley get caught up. Evan ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float) > > > Hi Evan, > > The reasoning behind why I installed the flap door was to prevent fuel from > sloshing over to the other bay while doing a slip while low on fuel (shame on > me if I'm that low to begin with but I figured it was free insurance and peace > of mind). > > At this time, I'm not concerned. There appeared to be plenty of clearance > (3/8" to 1/2" if I recall) between the float, the flap, and stiffener by the > time I got everything bent. > > I know that you build RV tanks for a living, based on your experience do you > have concerns with my design? > > Thanks, > /\/elson > > > On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > > > > > David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic > > options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending > > unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch > > each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider > > moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free > > to call or email me. > > > > Evan Johnson > > (530)351-1776 cell > > www.evansaviationproducts.com > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hi D, 5 3/8" down from the top horizontal firewall rivet line and 8 3/4" from pilot's side of the fuselage using the 45 1/2 " cable suggested in the Van's 2000 catalog. I spaced my engine prop controls a bit further apart than what seems to be average. (personal preference) This put the prop control a bit further to the right side of the control panel. I wanted enough length of cable from the governor bracket to the firewall to relieve stress during engine start and shut down. In my opinion I just made it with little to spare. With the 45 1/2" cable and using more average or normal spacing on the panel would have been only a little bit better. Going with the spec on the offered diagram should work. Happy building Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com> Subject: RV-List: Prop cable > > Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me > where you penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control > cable? > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Sender(standard float)
Hi Evan, Thanks for the feedback. I understand about the flop tube and the sender having to move. Thanks, /\/elson On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > > Hey David, I really dont see any big problems with what you have done. As > long as the float is not interfering with the flapper door you should be > fine. In the aerobatic tanks you have to move the sender because the flop > tube is in the first bay banging around, and that woud likley get caught up. > > Evan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Prop cable
Date: Nov 10, 2004
If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also. Thanks, John Furey O-320 RV6A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re:Stall Horn
clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org >There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning >device (or any other safety system for that matter)... > A stall warning device is just like some other "safety" devices (like a nose wheel) that let a pilot be just a little less proficient than he would have to be otherwise... get enough of those "safety devices" and you probably won't even have to learn to fly! 8>) Dave -6 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
Date: Nov 10, 2004
I could sure use the diagram as well. Thanks, Ned Thomas ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop cable > > If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also. > > Thanks, > John Furey > O-320 RV6A > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pete Howell" <pete.howell@gecko-group.com>
Subject: RV-9A QB rivet access.
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Hello, I am trying to get access to the rivets under the F-721-B for the F-705 on my -9A QB. Is it a case of making some creative bucking bars, or have people cut off the slotted flange of the F-721B to get access. Other ideas appreciated........ Thanks, Pete ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Subject: RV -7 with GRT EFIS and Dynon
From: Keith T Uhls <keithuhls(at)juno.com>
Q:IIncidentallywhat do you use to drive the VOR and glideslope? A: I purchased my GRT EFIS before they where selling them off the shelf. So some things were not available at that time. For me I wanted to be able to fly GPS approaches and in order to do that I had to have an OBS. So I purchased the one from Garmin. I do not know if the one on the EFIS would be legal and did not want to go through that battle in case I lost. I do not have the interface yet but it is wired so I can drive the OBS with the EFIS. Q: Where did you get the switches for your panel? A: A good question... I had a couple of guys here in Lockhart get their switches from Gulf Coast Avionics. They paid $40 plus $10 for engraving. I have 13 of these suckers.....and that is a lot of money. I looked for Honeywell AML switches from Allied electronics and Newarkinone. I purchased them from Newarkinone because they were the cheapest. However I found out that they were low amperage (3amps). There are higher amperages available from GCA (10 amps) At least that is what I was told when I called them. One of my switches went bad and that made me research the amperage. I ended up purchasing a few from them for my high amperage items. Landing lights, strobes etc. We are putting them in this week and I will let you know how that goes. I had mine engraved by a guy in Las Vegas, Andy's Engraving and he charged me $7.00 each. He did them in a matter of days and I was really happy with them. Q:I am not trying to nitpick anything but when flying the American Flag on the tail of an aircraft the stars are into the wind. A: Thanks for letting me know, especially before I got paint on it. I will change it. Jeff Bordelon took these pics and posted them to his web site. Here is the link http://www.jeffsrv7a.com/KeithsRV7.htm As you can see I have both the Grand Rapids and Dynon EFIS systems. I really like both of them, they both have there place in the panel and they keep getting better with each software update. If you have any questions about either one let me know. Keith Uhls keithuhls(at)juno.com RV-7 N7KU now flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Bruno <rv4(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range
Hello Listers I have a Lycoming 0-320 E2D in my RV-4 and ever since I got the a/c , the oil temperature has been hovering between 110 (Cold day 25 F)and 150 (very hot day 80 F.) My first reaction was to check the oil temp gauge which I found defective and I since replaced it with one from Van's. I thought my problem will be over but not to avail.Next was to installed a back plate to the back of the oil cooler.It did improve the oil temp a bit but not by much. I'm wondering what I can do next short of plugging the air intake. I have a Positech (7 rows) oil cooler on the a/c. So what have you guys (specially the ones flying in cold climat) done to get the proper oil temp? Are there any oil cooler better than others?? What is your normal oil temperature range? What are the potential problems I can expect? ( I know of a few but it will be nice to know them all if possible.) Thank you Bruno Dionne C-GDBH RV-4 rv4(at)videotron.ca P.S # You may reply OFF list if you wish. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Nov 10, 2004
BAck in the mid-seventies, I went with a Christen clone by a company called Akra-Line ( IIRC) at a fraction of the cost, when I was building up a Pitts Special. Only flew with it a few times, as it had a habit of dropping the oil pressure to almost zero once the oil temperature got up to operating temperature. Swapping parts narrowed it down to the three-way valve, which must have had too great a difference in expansion rates between the steel balls and the valve body. Ended up just coughing up the extra for the Christen. Scott in VAncouver ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems > > No Different whe it comes to the vac.pump pad fitting. Many people can & > do > use the same vac.pump pad fitting for the Christen systems. This keeps > the > momentary "drop" in pressure from happening. > > That being said, the Christen system is still significatly more expensive > than the "clone" which from what I've seen is basically the same thing, > just > a copy. > > Just an FYI.. > > Cheers, > Stein Bruch > Rv6's, Minneapolis (one with Inverted fuel/oil). > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hodgson > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems > > > > > Gary, > Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done > before. > It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on > the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on > the > Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil > separator to the breather fitting. > Second difference, it's cheaper! > Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works. > > It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is > available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump > kit > (vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone > wants this, get in touch. > > Bob (UK) > RV3B "finishing" (?) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> >> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems >> >> >> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen >> inverted >> oil system? >> >> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm >> >> Gary A. Sobek >> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, >> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA >> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Canopy Open In FLight
Date: Nov 10, 2004
On a tip up, that aft handle that you use to pull the canopy down and twist to engage the tab under the roll over structure will not prevent the canopy from coming open if the main latch on the left side is not engaged. It'll just bend itself as it scratches the roll over structure on it's way past. I don't know how high it would have opened if I hadn't grabbed it on the way up. I was fortunate to have another pilot with me and, as I held the canopy, he slowed the airplane. I was unable to close it until we had slowed to about 80 mph. This happened in cruise at about 7500 ft and maybe 20 minutes after takeoff. After getting it latched, I observed the latch working itself free again about a half hour later. That's when I resolved to put a longer spring on it B4 further flight. It latches very positively now and has given no further trouble. Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight I took off in my RV-6A tip up failing to engage the secondary latch. Apparently had not completely locked down the main canopy latch handle either. At around 300 ft the canopy popped open 6-8 " with a loud noise. I continued climbing to 3500 MSL and leveled off, I then found I could pull it down within an inch or so of the canopy rail but could not get it down far enough to lock. I estimate my speed was around 85-90 mph at that point but don't recall for certain. I slowed to around 65-70 MPH and found that reduce the lift sufficient to get the canopy down with a lot of pulling. However, I have since been informed (but have not tried it ) that if you slow down and deploy full flaps that the change in aircraft attitude makes it very easy to pull down and lock. Main thing, of course, is not to get distracted by a bit of noise and wind and fail to "FLY THE AIRPLANE". The aircraft is perfectly controllable with the canopy popped - although I don't think I would try a speed dash in that configuration {:>) Ed Anderson RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered Matthews, NC eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end > for fear of it opening further un flight. > > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open > a few inches. > What are the groups experiences? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Canopy Unlock Incidents
Date: Nov 10, 2004
The recent thread on canopy unlock incidents is the best contribution to the list in some time. In 600 hour's operation of a tip over RV4 canopy, I had one incident where rear rod did not engage it's locking hole. The canopy remained closed via the front rod. My wife, in the back seat, said "it's windier than normal" that's when I turned around and saw the problem. When I told her we'd be going back to the airport to relock the canopy she said "that's OK I don't mind the wind". Of course the incident had to be at a Saturday morning launch from Hillsboro, OR to Packwood for breakfast during a Van's homecoming several years ago. There were probably 20+ RVs within 10 miles of the airport when I had to make the returning call to the tower. Naturally, Jerry V. was the one who picked up on the call. I now visually check for engagement of both fore and aft rods. Based on the other posts I will probably add a micro-switch controlled warning light on the lock mechanisum. Dick Sipp Team RV wingman RV4, RV10 underconstruction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu
clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org I hate to admit it but in the early days of flying my -6, I managed to leave the slider unlatched 3 times! The first time I noticed it at about 7000 feet (because of the cold draft on the back of my neck). Since I had so much altitude, I felt it was safer to try to close it than to wait until I landed. In cruise you can forget it, it won't move, but if you slow down and put the flaps down it closes pretty easily by squeezing the lower front corner and the roll bar together on both sides.. Of course, you have to let go of the stick to do it, so it's a good idea to get the airplane trimmed for that speed. The second time I noticed it on takeoff and just landed to close it. The third time it happened it was a non-issue since I knew exactly what to do! Now, before taking the runway, I automatically reach up and check the handle. Now if I can just find a way to remember to turn on the fuel pump! Dave -6 So Cal EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor >Recommendation it this happens to you: > >1. Fly the aircraft >2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely. >3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, the >suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward >(for the slider) latch locked. > >Bob >RV6 NightFighter > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Stall warning etc.
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Elbie, That is well enough said for this guy Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: <EMAproducts(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc. > > To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed, > These pilots weren't planning on an accident either! > Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident? > Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents > Phase # accidents % Fatal > of Flight > T/O 451 33 > Climb 61 52 > Cruise 91 44 > Maneuvering 294 69 > Decent 76 72 > Approach 201 39 > Em. Ldg 64 28 > Landing 269 6 > Go around VFR 36 17 > Go around IFR 3 100 > UKN 276 34 > > This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it > includes production and homebuilt aircraft. > Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one > time > or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such > a > terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading > cause of > this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over. > > You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin > accidents > were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have > been > killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied? > > This puts it all in perspective! > > This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics. > > Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly > www.riteangle.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AOA
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes until it goes to infinity". This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics. We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just IMHO. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Wiring and fuel system ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on
zoot.lafn.org
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Dave, That's nonsense. By your reasoning a "proficient" pilot should ditch his altimeter and just eyeball altitude. While we're at it, let's lose the flaps and learn to properly slip to landing. Don't carrier pilots use an AOA? Hard to find pilots more proficient than that. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org > > > >There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning > >device (or any other safety system for that matter)... > > > > A stall warning device is just like some other "safety" devices (like a > nose wheel) that let a pilot be just a little less proficient than he > would have to be otherwise... get enough of those "safety devices" and > you probably won't even have to learn to fly! 8>) > > Dave -6 > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nutplate jigs
Mickey Coggins wrote: > >Hi, > >I'm kind of tired of my crappy looking nutplate installations, >and I'm looking for any tips/tricks to make them better. >My basic problem is getting the screw hole to line up right. > >Are nutplate jigs worth what people like Avery charge >for them (38 USD)? Any other tricks that you care to pass on? > >Thanks, >Mickey > Mickey, just take a nutplate for each size (most likely #6, 8, and 10) and put a long screw in them ..... 1/2" or more ...... and cut the head off the screw. Round off the raw end of the screw. Drill (or use the existing hole) and place the screw/nutplate in place and drill one ear and cleco. Drill the other ear and rivet away! (no, don't rivet your jig!) LOTS cheaper than any purchased jigs ..... and real cheap to replace as the ear holes will become oversize after a while. Linn ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List:
steve zicree wrote: > >Anyone know whether my gear leg fairing hinges are stainless? They're very thin material and sure do look like stainless, but I'm not sure. Only reason I care is I'd love to have one less thing to prime. > >Steve Zicree >RV4, wearing pants! > Good stainless won't attract a magnet (or the other way around!) Linn > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: AOA
Date: Nov 10, 2004
Dean, I think you're dead-on accurate here. I've no experience in an RV, but have seen ridiculously steep-banked RV's in the pattern. You mention using the AOA to see how close we are to the "ragged edge". I agree whole-heartedly, but I think we can go one better: Take her up nice and high and see just what you can get away with before she stops flying. Straight ahead stalls are great, but knowing where the break occurs in ALL attitudes is best. Back when our balls-to-brains ratio was a bit too high, most of us figured out exactly how fast we could take a corner in our car before the tires slip. I want that same knowledge in my plane and will, with the proper training, try to safely acquire it. That is if I ever finish this dang thing. Steve Zicree RV4, Fixin' to crack, I mean cut, the canopy ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: RV-List: AOA > > Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes until it goes to infinity"! > . This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics. We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just IMHO. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Wiring and fuel system > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: AOA
Date: Nov 10, 2004
One more thing on the AOA issue. I'm guessing most of you have read it, but to those who haven't, get a copy of Stick and Rudder. It's an awesome book on the subject. ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: RV-List: AOA > > Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes until it goes to infinity"! > . This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics. We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just IMHO. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Wiring and fuel system > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Stall warning etc.
Stall Warning & AOA What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly experienced pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of a safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase the safety level for those who do not "fly enough". I will not go into my thoughts about selling the aircraft to a lower time pilot, or allowing someone else to fly your aircraft. Instead, I will just congratulate those who actually do "fly enough" to have a "good feel for their aircraft" and diligently practice, while stressed, emergency returns or diversions to a airport with a rough running engine or some other emergency, overshooting their turn to final in a stiff crosswind and throwing in simulated wind-shear - well done guys!! George in Langley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range
Date: Nov 11, 2004
I have the same engine in my -6 and it runs 150 on cool days and 170 on hot days. Haven't flown on really cold days yet. I have a flap on the oil cooler that I can close to varying degrees and it will raise the temp. I try to get the oil temp up to 180 by adjusting the flap. I have also put a restrictor plate between the cooler and baffle to reduce the opening by 1/3 and it helped. I plan on enlarging the restrictor plate a little more. You didn't mention what size oil cooler lines you are using. I have -8 fittings and oil lines. I think that -6 lines would help raise the oil temp. Jerry Calvert N295JC RV6 Edmond Ok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruno" <rv4(at)videotron.ca> Subject: RV-List: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range > > Hello Listers > I have a Lycoming 0-320 E2D in my RV-4 and ever since > I got the a/c , the oil temperature has been hovering between 110 (Cold day > 25 F)and 150 > (very hot day 80 F.) > My first reaction was to check the oil temp gauge > which I found defective and I since replaced it with one from Van's. I > thought my problem will be over but not to avail.Next was to installed a > back plate to the back of the oil cooler.It did improve the oil temp a bit > but not by much. > > I'm wondering what I can do next short of plugging the > air intake. > > I have a Positech (7 rows) oil cooler on the a/c. > > So what have you guys (specially the ones flying in cold climat) done to get > the proper oil temp? > > Are there any oil cooler better than others?? > > What is your normal oil temperature range? > > What are the potential problems I can expect? ( I know of a few but it will > be nice to know them all if possible.) > > Thank you > > Bruno Dionne > C-GDBH RV-4 > rv4(at)videotron.ca > > P.S # You may reply OFF list if you wish. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu clamav-milter
version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org
Date: Nov 11, 2004
For what its worth..... I've been trying a few acronyms to use as a quick checklist before t/o to make sure I didn't miss the essential items. Here's what I use: FFTC, GUMP F - Fuel (pump on if appl, select appr tank) F - Flaps T - Trim C - Canopy We all know GUMP. Its easy to remember FTC anyway so just add an F to it or don't and use the G in gump to remember. I find I use it on final as well, especially during touch and go's and the ever so dreaded go-around(trim/flaps). Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 140 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu clamav-milter version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org > > > I hate to admit it but in the early days of flying my -6, I managed to > leave the slider unlatched 3 times! The first time I noticed it at about > 7000 feet (because of the cold draft on the back of my neck). Since I > had so much altitude, I felt it was safer to try to close it than to > wait until I landed. In cruise you can forget it, it won't move, but if > you slow down and put the flaps down it closes pretty easily by > squeezing the lower front corner and the roll bar together on both > sides.. Of course, you have to let go of the stick to do it, so it's a > good idea to get the airplane trimmed for that speed. > The second time I noticed it on takeoff and just landed to close it. The > third time it happened it was a non-issue since I knew exactly what to do! > Now, before taking the runway, I automatically reach up and check the > handle. Now if I can just find a way to remember to turn on the fuel pump! > > Dave -6 So Cal > EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor > >>Recommendation it this happens to you: >> >>1. Fly the aircraft >>2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely. >>3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, >>the >>suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward >>(for the slider) latch locked. >> >>Bob >>RV6 NightFighter >> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PGLong(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range
Hi Bruno If you get any replies off list to this problem, would you send a copy to me? I have an RV4 with low oil temps just like yours. I recently installed an oil filter and vernatherm with no change in temps. Mahlon on the Lycoming Yahoo group told me I needed to remove the spring and cap under the 1" plug so the oil would be controlled by the vernatherm and not the way it use to be when I had the screen filter. Did this and then the oil temps only came up about 5 degrees. Still need to do something to get them up. I did check my sender and gage by immersing in boiling water and found my gage is correct. Next cowl removal, I'm going to stuff a rag in my cooler in case some oil is still passing through it. I perviously had blocked 80% of it off and no difference. I have concluded that the RV4 with my _0-320_ (mailto:0-320-A@Bjust) won't generate enough heat to warm up the oil. All my other temps are fine. Sure would appreciate anything you learn and what any one else knows about how to correct this problem. Pat Long PGLong(at)aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Subject: Re: Team RV....A Veterans Day Salute
Great work Mike. You guys are outstanding. I did need the kleenex. Thanks for all the good things ya'll are doing. Regards, Doug ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: AOA
steve zicree wrote: > > One more thing on the AOA issue. I'm guessing most of you have read it, but > to those who haven't, get a copy of Stick and Rudder. It's an awesome book > on the subject. For those wanting additional info concerning AOA issues, stall warnings, etc, etc, look in the list archives. This subject gets thoroughly hashed and rehashed every couple of years or so. :-) Just search "AOA" or "LRI" and sit back for an extended reading session. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: inverted oil
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Hi All- To my knowledge, Doug doesn't maintain a web site. He can be reached at the following addresses when he's not off flying an airshow or mowing the airport. BTW, his slobber pot is also flat instead of cylindrical. In theory, it should precipitate more oil vapor due to the greater radiating surface area per cubic volume of slobber pot. It also means the pot bolts directly to the firewall instead of using giant hose clamps to hang it. Any of the systems can use the vacuum pump pad (a la B&C) for improved oil pick up performance, unless of course you have an IO 360-A1B6D. You may wonder how I know that.... Doug Dodge Acro Specialties 614 Fouth River Rd Bay City, MI 48708 ddodge(at)concentric.net 989-893-0801 got a link? -------------- Original message -------------- > > Hi All- > > For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro > Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the > other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system. > The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven > system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the > sump. > > FWIW > Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: AOA
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Dean, I strongly Agree with you. We have JimFrantz'a Proprietary Software System's Pro in our RV-8A. We mounted it, at Jim's suggestion, in a holder on top of the glareshield in the left hand corner AND hard wired the audio warning to the pilot's headset jack. For those of you who have had an in-flight emergency, you know how busy it gets. You are focused on the problem at hand - the audio warning is my insurance and it works. Regarding comments that there are safety cops who will tell you what to do - I won't argue. But like most of us I also usually dismiss them. Remembering that the FAA is more interested in the public than us - Safety is our responsiblitity. WE CAN MITIGATE the Risks - If we want to. Since I'd hate to see my family suffer my loss (probably few others would be concerned-short of more FAA attention) I under took a fairly extensive research effort on what we could do to mitigate the risks, we all face. Hence the AOA was on the top of my list. Good building and safe flying, Chuck Rowbotham RV-8A (300+ hrs) >From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: AOA >Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:52:14 -0500 > > > >Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have >limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of >my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having >known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin >accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into >the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I >see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with >which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly >unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of >making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have >heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the >pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic >pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes >until it goes to infinity"! >. This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just >because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics. > We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! >An AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to >the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern >where we might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning >tone should help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two >people I knew might still be alive today if they had these features in the >cockpit! Just IMHO. > >Dean Psiropoulos >RV-6A N197DM >Wiring and fuel system ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mts.net>
Subject: Re: AOA
Date: Nov 11, 2004
> I think you're dead-on accurate here. I've no experience in an RV, but > have > seen ridiculously steep-banked RV's in the pattern. Bank angle by itself has no impact on stall speed whatsoever. This is one of the bigest misconceptions in flying. The textbooks all imply that stall speed increases with angle of bank. Not true! Stall speed increases as the load factor increases, period. If you aren't pulling any Gs then you can be in a 90 degree bank and your stall speed is the same as it is in straight and level flight. I often find myself with 60-80 degrees of bank in the pattern, since RVs roll so nicely, but you'd better believe I'm not pulling any significant Gs at the time and my airspeed is 20 knots above stall. On the other hand, you can be in a nice "safe" 30 degree bank, or straight and level, but if you pull hard at low airspeed, you will get an accellerated stall. What the textbooks usually say is that as you increase your angle of bank, the amount of G necessary to hold altitude in the turn increases, until at 90 degrees of bank you need to pull infinite Gs to hold altitude. But even that goes out the window when you start getting into high power-to-weight ratio aircraft. An aerobatic aircraft in level, knife edge flight is obviously banked at 90 degrees yet only seeing 1 G and still holding level flight. Or you can be in a 70 degree base-to-final turn but letting the altitude bleed off and keeping the airspeed up and the Gs low and be nowhere near the stall. I think the bottom line for pattern work is: don't pull high Gs at low altitude, regardless of the attitude of the airplane. Always keep an eye on your airspeed, and if you need to make a steep banked turn, keep the nose down, the Gs low and the airspeed up. As for angle of attack indicators, I don't have one but they seem like a good idea IF you want to push the edge of the envelope at low altitude. The alternative is to just stay away from the edge. Curt RV-6 C-GACR 240 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: Stall warnings, AOAs, pucker factor...
Date: Nov 11, 2004
> For example, the thing that's gotten my attention frequently as a passenger in RVs is the >60 to 90 degree, (insert your G reading here) bank turns in the pattern or while flying over >some point over the ground. Seems RV dudes love to rack it up tight while relatively >close to the ground with little regard for entry/exit airspeed or G's being pulled. I ain't >been in one that's stalled yet but my military training has had my sphincter tighten up on >me more than once and I get kind of white knuckled while considering taking the stick >away from the pilot and whacking them on the noggin' like some off the IPs loved to do. I think Lucky is right on the mark with this. I know four people killed in exactly this way, meaning that two pilots killed themselves and both took another pilot with them. When you whip stall at low altitude it could be possible to fly out of it, but most of us will be overwhelmed by the experience to the point that the ground will give us a dope slap before we figure out what happened. One of these accidents was an RV6 the other was a Yak. The Yak is designed to fly out of a stall and easily could have, the pilot had well more then 1000 feet of altitude. My friend (20,000+ hours and airshow pilot) flying his other plane observed the Yak held in the stall until impact with the ground. Since the pilots were dead we can't say what happened for sure. The NTSB could not identify a mechanical deficiency and both accidents were observed to result from an accelerated stall caused by cranking the plane around in a high bank angle. I'd really prefer to hear "angle angle push" before the break if I found myself in this situation. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: re: Stall Warnings, etc
Date: Nov 11, 2004
The LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in my RV6A was my primary reference when (as you may recall) I posted about an incident where my static tube was pinched and I lost ASI, VSI, ALT, upon take off in a busy traffic pattern and decided to fly on rather than get back in the pattern without those indicators...my LRI was critical for landing, and is ALWAYS, the indicator I refer to on rotation and while doing pattern turns, etc. I may not be old, fat, and have 50,000-hours in WW2, but I know what's important !! John at Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range
Date: Nov 11, 2004
I've got an O-320-E2A with high compresion pistons. It runs 140-160 unless doing a lot of powered slow flight. I lean the heck out of it, have a working vernitherm, spin on oil filter on the accy section and have an oil cooler on the firewall. It's (knock on wood) doing just fine after about 680 hrs of my overhaul in 1999. On the other hand, most of the -360 series installations I'm familiar with generally seem to run hotter. Bottom line - for some reason - I believe the -320 series just runs cooler. Bryan Jones >From: PGLong(at)aol.com >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: Rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range >Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:18:28 EST > > >Hi Bruno > >If you get any replies off list to this problem, would you send a copy to >me? I have an RV4 with low oil temps just like yours. I recently installed >an >oil filter and vernatherm with no change in temps. Mahlon on the Lycoming >Yahoo > group told me I needed to remove the spring and cap under the 1" plug so >the oil would be controlled by the vernatherm and not the way it use to be >when >I had the screen filter. Did this and then the oil temps only came up about >5 > degrees. Still need to do something to get them up. I did check my sender >and gage by immersing in boiling water and found my gage is correct. Next >cowl >removal, I'm going to stuff a rag in my cooler in case some oil is still >passing through it. I perviously had blocked 80% of it off and no >difference. I >have concluded that the RV4 with my _0-320_ (mailto:0-320-A@Bjust) won't >generate enough heat to warm up the oil. All my other temps are fine. Sure >would >appreciate anything you learn and what any one else knows about how to >correct this problem. > >Pat Long >PGLong(at)aol.com >N120PL >RV4 >Bay City, Michigan >3CM > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: re: Stall Warnings, etc
Here is my 2 cents on all this with no flame intended to those who want the stall devices. In VFR weather, the entire panel should not be needed in order to make a good landing. I used to race cars, road racing requires a good feel through your hands and rear end while doing 4 wheel drifts around the course. For me this has transferred over to flying, I can tell you what the plane is doing by sound and vibration. I once forgot to remove the pitot tube cover, continued on and landed at my destination and landed by feel, it was a non issue. If you can not feel what your plane is doing then you had better rely on some sort of stall warning device I guess. This also reminds me of people in other posts who have commented about how fast the RV's pick up speed. Well yea, for me they do until about 210 MPH then there are all sorts of "signs" that let you know things are changing. Some people have commented on hitting 260 MPH while looking at a map!!!! My question is ho can you not feel/hear that? Being in tune with your plane is vital........of course VFR conditions only. > >The LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in my RV6A was my primary reference when >(as you may recall) I posted about an incident where my static tube was >pinched and I lost ASI, VSI, ALT, upon take off in a busy traffic pattern >and decided to fly on rather than get back in the pattern without those >indicators...my LRI was critical for landing, and is ALWAYS, the >indicator I refer to on rotation and while doing pattern turns, etc. > >I may not be old, fat, and have 50,000-hours in WW2, but I know what's >important !! > >John at Salida, CO > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Me too ... thanks. Jerry Grimmonpre O-320 RV7A ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop cable > > If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also. > > Thanks, > John Furey > O-320 RV6A > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
Date: Nov 11, 2004
First and foremost, Van doesn't recommend opening a Tip-Up canopy in flight. Nor do I recommend doing it unless the test conditions are limited.... But in the interest of knowing all I can know about my plane, I've done a fair amount of testing for the open Tip Up canopy condition, including opening it in flight, and taking off & landing with it open. Except for limiting the cruise speed while it's open, there has never been any adverse effects. The MAX airspeed I've tested to with it open, is 110 Knots. Because of the airflow over it, the canopy wants to open up about 3". The canopy is a lifting surface. Because of that fact, it's difficult to close it in flight, UNLESS the airspeed is reduced AND the angle of attack is increased: to close it, slow down to approach speed (even put the flaps down) get the nose up a bit, and it'll close easily. Believe it or not, the canopy can be used to control the pitch of the aircraft while in flight, and can be used in an emergency if the elevator controls were compromised. Slow the aircraft down WITHOUT PUTTING ON THE FLAPS. Use the trim to obtain level flight. Slowly open the canopy, and re-trim (you'll need more UP trim). Once trimmed, let go of the stick. Pulling the canopy down will cause the nose to pitch up. Pushing it further open will cause the nose to pitch down. I've even demonstrated landing using only this method for pitch control (fast landing on a very long runway, with my hand near the stick!). Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open. It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4! 923te wrote: > >I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I >might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end >for fear of it opening further un flight. > >Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I >believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open >a few inches. >What are the groups experiences? > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Stall Horn
>Enjoy your copy of "Stick and Rudder". That is an excellent book. Sure explains a lot of things I should have known 25+ years ago! -- Mickey Coggins http://www.rv8.ch/ #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Attaching the emp. tips
Date: Nov 11, 2004
When attaching the emp. tips, do you use cloth, or just micro-ballons (West Systems)? I have a couple of weeks until the wings arrive, so I thought I'd get these done. My fit is really pretty good. There is a small line which could be filled if I wanted to, just wanted to get the list's concensus. Also, is there a preference on the type of foam used to seal the ends? Something easily shaped and sanded, particularly sanded, would be nice. Ahhh - one more thing. When sanding, how do you protect the skins where you don't want scratches. I see all these RV's where there is fiberglass work done and no apparent damage/scratches on the uhh non-fiberglassed areas. I have used West systems before (boating) . Thanks, Dave David Fenstermacher dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
Date: Nov 11, 2004
One of our lines of business makes aircraft cables. I haven't ordered a cable from Van's in a while (mine were all custom made for free ;), but I believe the cables that come with Van's kits may be ours. We have setup a web site to customer order kit aircraft cables. https://shop.tuthill.com/Cablecraft/ Don Mack RV-6A finishing don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: CH Products Control Stick Switches Electrical Specifications
There has been discussions about the CH Products control sticks (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/aircraft.html) on the newsgroups lately. I have two of them, but there was a question about what the switch ratings were. I contacted Kevin Williamson of CH Products and he was kind enough to supply me with a set of sample switches (from Omron) and the part numbers thereof. I downloaded the complete data sheet from the web, reviewed the specifications and then called the Omron factory representative. There are a few minor errors in the datasheet available on the web, so the rep emailed me the revised (corrected) sheets. I also discussed with him the specifications listed and got clarification, although it turned out that when I received the revised data sheets, the specification is very clear now. The bottom line is that the electrical rating for all three different switches is: 1-50mA, at 5-24V. The explanation for the ratings is: 1. The lower values (1 mA at 5V) are to make sure that the switch sees enough energy when switching to keep the contacts clean. Any lower values would not guarantee that the contacts will always make proper contact over the life of the switch. If for some reason the load being switched is too low, a resistor could be added in parallel with the load to increase the current to at least 1 mA. 2. The higher values (50 mA at 24V) are the maximum values that should be switched that will not damage the switch. Switching any higher loads will risk damaging the contacts - either welding them shut or warping them or causing excessive arc damage - and will certainly shorten the life of the switch. 3. These ratings are for a resistive load, so if they are to be used with a relay or motor the contacts MUST be protected with a diode or other type of snubber network! Of course, the manufacturer always has a margin in the design so if one chooses to switch 55mA at 14V (for instance), the switch will probably still have a reasonable life. However, pushing them to 100 mA or more will definitely shorten the life and may result in a catastrophic failure at some point. These switches are rated for a lot of actuations so their use in an airplane should be no problem. The hat switches are rated for 300,000 operations (minimum), the switches on the top face of the stick are rated for 100,000 operations (minimum) and the trigger (typically used for push-to-talk) is rated for 1,000,000 operations (minimum). To put these numbers in perspective, let's assume you make one flight every day for ten years. For each flight you could use the hat switch to trim the airplane 82 times in each direction, you could actuate the flaps (assuming that is what you use the two gray switches on the top of the stick for) 27 times each up and down and you could push-to-talk 274 times. I am satisfied that the switches used are as robust as you will find and the ratings are adequate for the task. Just don't go overboard on what you connect direct to the switches and your CH Products control stick will have a long and happy life! Dick Tasker ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: re: Stall Warnings, etc
Well, looking back at the beginning of all this, the reason that some (not all, just some) aircraft have stall warning systems is that the builder/manufacturer of the aircraft, or more usually the agency certifying the airworthiness of the aircraft, decided (normally after flight testing) that the natural indications associated with high angle of attack flight in the aircraft were not sufficient to provide adequate warning of an impending stall to an average (for certification purposes) pilot. The classic warning indication typical of most light aircraft is buffeting of the aft fuselage and tail surface or the flight controls as separated flow from the inboard sections of the wing strikes the aft fuselage and tail surfaces of the aircraft. Due to design considerations such as high mounted tailplanes (a 'Tee' tail), wing sweep, airfoil choice, aspect ratio, amount of wing incidence "washout", etc. there are some aircraft that have little or no warning of an impending stall that might lead to a departure from controlled flight. In some cases the consequences of a stall may be such that a stall has to be avoided at all costs so a "belt and suspenders" approach is used to avoid this. Some large aircraft with high tails and swept wings when stalled have insufficient nose down pitch capability to unstall themselves, a mushing descent into the ground usually results. Thus stall warning "stick shakers" and even "stick pushers" are used in most higher performance aircraft such as jets and airliners. My impression of the two RV series aircraft I have flown regularly into practice stalls (RV-3, RV-6A) is that they do not provide much advance warning in the form of airframe/stick buffet when flown into the usual 1 G, slow deceleration, level flight, power on stall. There are lots of other indications in form of pitch attitude, control feel, etc. that say a stall is imminent but the "buffet symptom" is not there and rather suddenly the aircraft "breaks" with one wing or the other dropping. A quick release of back pressure of course reduces the angle of attack and the aircraft is flying again. Pulling hard in a "wind-up turn" maneuver to induce a high-G, aka "accelerated stall", situation in my experience provides reasonable pre-stall buffet in an RV series aircraft due most likely to the higher speed of the airflow striking the aft fuselage and tail. Recovery is again almost instantaneous with the release of back-pressure. In the homebuilt aircraft sector, everyone gets to be their own test pilot and certifying authority. So the bottom line is test your own personal RV's stall characteristics and if you don't consider the aircraft's inherent stall warning characteristics are adequate for "YOUR" own personal purposes, install whatever AOA gauges, warnings lights, tones, horns, etc. you feel will do the job. I saw/see no need to install such devices in my two RVs. Others will certainly see things differently. In my own flying, I expect I would be considered somewhat aggressive in the angle of bank I use in the traffic pattern. In this, I feel I am making an appropriate balance between the danger and consequences of stalling the aircraft (which I feel to be minimal) versus the increased probability of collision due to loss of look-out capability in an extended (in terms of time spent in a banked attitude) turn which are serious and quite likely to be fatal. In my own view, it is those who fly shallow banked, poorly co-ordinated, turns close to the ground who are in danger of the stall, loss-of-control, accident. Yes, a steeply bank aircraft will "stall" at a higher speed but will "unstall" almost instantaneously when/if the back pressure being held for the turn is released. The aircraft's wings can then be levelled through normal use of the ailerons and a climb attitude easily achieved. The "safe & careful" guy turning final onspeed with 10-15 deg of bank has no reserve of airspeed should he stall, has to get the nose well down to gain airspeed (a highly unnatural action when down low) and then has to be quite careful about the use of the ailerons when levelling the wings before raising the nose to start climbing. There are also aerodynamic factors such as downwash from the wing which can reduce the nose up stick authority in a steep turn in some aircraft such that there is insufficient control effect to stall the aircraft compared to wings level flight (however RVs have highly effective elevators and this effect is not noticeable in my RV experience). Not many aircraft will enter and stabilize in a spin from 500 feet AGL, it is usually just a quick 90 deg to 180 deg turn before the aircraft hits the ground well nose down; thus multi-turn spin and spin recovery practice at altitude is mostly useless in the traffic pattern, IMHO. Time spent in recognizing and countering an impending departure from controlled flight is far more useful in avoiding traffic pattern accidents in my view. Finally, here is a link to an excellent online aerodynamics text: http://www.av8n.com/how/ . This is an really outstanding, pilot-oriented, description of classical low speed aerodynamics and well worth having a browse through when looking for explanations of why an aircraft stalls, the difference between sustained banked flight vs. transient conditions, etc. Jim Oke Wpg, MB RV-3, RV-6A ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: re: Stall Warnings, etc > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > Here is my 2 cents on all this with no flame intended to those who want > the > stall devices. > > In VFR weather, the entire panel should not be needed in order to make a > good landing. I used to race cars, road racing requires a good feel > through > your hands and rear end while doing 4 wheel drifts around the course. For > me this has transferred over to flying, I can tell you what the plane is > doing by sound and vibration. I once forgot to remove the pitot tube > cover, > continued on and landed at my destination and landed by feel, it was a non > issue. If you can not feel what your plane is doing then you had better > rely on some sort of stall warning device I guess. This also reminds me of > people in other posts who have commented about how fast the RV's pick up > speed. Well yea, for me they do until about 210 MPH then there are all > sorts of "signs" that let you know things are changing. Some people have > commented on hitting 260 MPH while looking at a map!!!! My question is ho > can you not feel/hear that? Being in tune with your plane is > vital........of course VFR conditions only. > > >> >>The LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in my RV6A was my primary reference when >>(as you may recall) I posted about an incident where my static tube was >>pinched and I lost ASI, VSI, ALT, upon take off in a busy traffic pattern >>and decided to fly on rather than get back in the pattern without those >>indicators...my LRI was critical for landing, and is ALWAYS, the >>indicator I refer to on rotation and while doing pattern turns, etc. >> >>I may not be old, fat, and have 50,000-hours in WW2, but I know what's >>important !! >> >>John at Salida, CO >> >> > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
Date: Nov 11, 2004
yes please. I don't have the issue you are referring. I'd appreciate the diagram very much. thanks for the reply. Very helpful. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Davis" <rvpilot(at)access4less.net>
Subject: tools for sale
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Guys, In my tools for sale post a few days ago, I forgot to mention a few goodies that are included. Pneumatic 90 Deg. angle drill (worn but still works good) Big collection of 1/4-28 drill bits Metal shrinker Rivit cutter Rivit fan spacing tool Instrument panel hole punch, does both 3 1/8 & 2 1/4 holes skin flanging tool Imperial 1/4" tubing bender Ridgid 3/8" tubing bender Hose mandrels for making up Aeroquip hoses Toggle clamps Bill Davis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Stall warning (opinionated)
> What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly experienced > pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of a > safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really > gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may > dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase the > safety level for those who do not "fly enough". Jim said "George has a point". George says - Thanks gentleman for an interesting discussion, however I think that I may not have made my point. My point is that no matter how good you are (or think you are) there are situations for which you cannot fully train yourself and that is when a inexpensive safety device such as stall warning or AOA may be instrumental in a successful conclusion to your flight. One respected pilot wrote, RV's give a (marginal) buffet warning before the stall and with proficiency it is easily recognized, and I agree, but my point is would you recognize this pre-stall buffet if the aircraft was shaking violently because the prop spinner is coming off, and the airspeed indicator is just a blur, I think not! Another experienced pilot points out that we can take off and fly quite safely with the pitot tube plugged by wasps, and I agree, it is actually quite easy to fly without airspeed. Everyone should practice flying with the airspeed indicator covered to cater for this non-normal procedure. But step this non-normal up one level to a true emergency, a flock of geese took out your airspeed plus one, with no boarding pass, came through the canopy breaking your glasses and shaking you up, your aircraft is now vibrating, has more drag, lots of noise and you are having trouble seeing - now will a inexpensive safety device be helpful?? And from the tone of some posts I think that some respected pilots have fallen into the same trap as myself. When I was 19 and had 300 hours I could make perfect landings and really did know everything there was about flying, except for one puzzling thing, why did VFR pilots fly into IFR conditions. Not flying enough or were they just not as good as me? By the time I was in my thirties I was a 737 Captain and our company was giving us quarterly recurrent simulator training. I booked extra time and practiced every emergency the simulator could reproduce, manual reversions, engine fires, single engine go-around, they were all a piece of cake. My attitude was "show me something I can't handle". Of course that was before we knew about the rudder hard over problem. (sidebar - later when we went to bi-annual two day training sessions they were more humbling - there really is a difference between practicing quarterly or bi-annually). Now as a retired 747 captain I realize that some of my attitudes were downright dumb because I was only looking at my own narrow little envelope. I now consider myself a student pilot again. To reiterate, my point is this, it really doesn't matter if one adds or leaves out any safety device, that is for each individual builder to decide. However in my opinion, more experienced pilots should not belittle any device that may be beneficial to those with less experience! George in Langley ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Michael Robbins" <robbinsrv8(at)msn.com>
Subject: AOA
Date: Nov 10, 2004
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: RV-List: AOA . . I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. . . . the ease with which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. Such a thing happened to me early in my RV flying. Pulled hard low in the pattern to avoid conflicting traffic and noticed all the green, yellow and red LEDs on my AOA suddenly illuminate. I immediately unloaded and never got a buffet. Just because I've been in this flying game for 44 years now doesn't mean I still can't do something stupid and do myself in. My AOA and the controversial fuselage strakes (for RV-8s only) were worth every penny I paid for them. Send me a message if you 8 guys want to know more about the strakes. They do make a difference. Mike Robbins RV-8 N88MJ 480 hours Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Stall warning (opinionated)
Date: Nov 11, 2004
Well said. I have sorta stayed out of this one.... but When I was in the military, I was flying the T-37 simulator. I had a primary emergency (don't remember what the IP threw at me) that I took care of and happilly landed with the gear horn bleeping in my helmet. What happened? - He also threw in a hydraulic failure. The gear handle was down, but I was so complacent that I had the emergency taken care of. Well, you know. I thought I was home free. What a sobering moment. I was busy and even with the gear horn, I managed to ignore that I had no gear. I sat in the sim for 10 minutes. All I could hear was my breathing - the IP had long since left. I always think of this when I get to feeling too good about my flying abilities. When it hits the fan, it has a habit of piling up on your butt. > [Original Message] > From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> > To: > Date: 11/11/2004 11:25:56 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Stall warning (opinionated) > > > > What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly experienced > > pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of a > > safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really > > gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may > > dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase > the > > safety level for those who do not "fly enough". > > Jim said "George has a point". > > George says - > > Thanks gentleman for an interesting discussion, however I think that I may > not have made my point. > > My point is that no matter how good you are (or think you are) there are > situations for which you cannot fully train yourself and that is when a > inexpensive safety device such as stall warning or AOA may be instrumental > in a successful conclusion to your flight. > > One respected pilot wrote, RV's give a (marginal) buffet warning before the > stall and with proficiency it is easily recognized, and I agree, but my > point is would you recognize this pre-stall buffet if the aircraft was > shaking violently because the prop spinner is coming off, and the airspeed > indicator is just a blur, I think not! > > Another experienced pilot points out that we can take off and fly quite > safely with the pitot tube plugged by wasps, and I agree, it is actually > quite easy to fly without airspeed. Everyone should practice flying with the > airspeed indicator covered to cater for this non-normal procedure. But step > this non-normal up one level to a true emergency, a flock of geese took out > your airspeed plus one, with no boarding pass, came through the canopy > breaking your glasses and shaking you up, your aircraft is now vibrating, > has more drag, lots of noise and you are having trouble seeing - now will a > inexpensive safety device be helpful?? > > And from the tone of some posts I think that some respected pilots have > fallen into the same trap as myself. > When I was 19 and had 300 hours I could make perfect landings and really did > know everything there was about flying, except for one puzzling thing, why > did VFR pilots fly into IFR conditions. Not flying enough or were they just > not as good as me? > > By the time I was in my thirties I was a 737 Captain and our company was > giving us quarterly recurrent simulator training. > I booked extra time and practiced every emergency the simulator could > reproduce, manual reversions, engine fires, single engine go-around, they > were all a piece of cake. My attitude was "show me something I can't > handle". Of course that was before we knew about the rudder hard over > problem. (sidebar - later when we went to bi-annual two day training > sessions they were more humbling - there really is a difference between > practicing quarterly or bi-annually). > Now as a retired 747 captain I realize that some of my attitudes were > downright dumb because I was only looking at my own narrow little envelope. > I now consider myself a student pilot again. > > To reiterate, my point is this, it really doesn't matter if one adds or > leaves out any safety device, that is for each individual builder to decide. > However in my opinion, more experienced pilots should not belittle any > device that may be beneficial to those with less experience! > > George in Langley > > ________________________________________________________________________________ DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; b=pU6W0HtyGsePryPwu7j5bWVAtpQ4k/hnL5cCnGw+9csApgyQAO+WZ7dg2dp/vJfS1epO75g59rV3uYt44ur7UKlpWY/+EPfwOaJlZt7GlKHuOTbktPwfN2FQZZnqTL1w7lahLq1wF9GP4JVlUv2Iqz8dMZu8OM2OBFXRQXfioEc;
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wiring for 2 Comms - no audio panel
Hello- I have decided to install a second com in my Rv-8. I just have an intercom - no audio panel switching unit. I thought someone told me that there were two pins I needed to toggle between the two comms. Is it: (1) push to talk (which is ultimately grounded when you press the key) and (2) mike high? Thanks Dag ***************** Dag Adamson 617 513 1182 Cambridge, MA Denver, CO ***************** --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Wiring for 2 Comms - no audio panel
dag adamson wrote: > >Hello- > >I have decided to install a second com in my Rv-8. I just have an intercom - no audio panel switching unit. I thought someone told me that there were two pins I needed to toggle between the two comms. > >Is it: > >(1) push to talk (which is ultimately grounded when you press the key) >and >(2) mike AUDIO (not high?) > And (3) headphone audio. Can be done with one 3pdt switch. Linn > >Thanks >Dag > > >***************** >Dag Adamson >617 513 1182 >Cambridge, MA >Denver, CO >***************** > >--------------------------------- > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: Canopy Open In FLight
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff and stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the other latch the handle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end > for fear of it opening further un flight. > > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open > a few inches. > What are the groups experiences? > > > --- > > --- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: AOA
I'd like to hear about why you put strakes on and what their effect is. Michael Robbins wrote: > >From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> >Subject: RV-List: AOA > > > . . I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should >be high on every RVers need list. . . . the ease with which the RVs will do steeply >banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. > > >Such a thing happened to me early in my RV flying. Pulled hard low in the pattern to avoid conflicting traffic and noticed all the green, yellow and red LEDs on my AOA suddenly illuminate. I immediately unloaded and never got a buffet. Just because I've been in this flying game for 44 years now doesn't mean I still can't do something stupid and do myself in. My AOA and the controversial fuselage strakes (for RV-8s only) were worth every penny I paid for them. Send me a message if you 8 guys want to know more about the strakes. They do make a difference. > >Mike Robbins >RV-8 N88MJ 480 hours >Seattle > > > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Stall warning (opinionated)
Date: Nov 11, 2004
George, Thanks very much for the sensible comments from an experienced pilot. I've happily used the list search engine for the last couple of years and found it very helpful in getting answers to technical questions during the construction of my 4, but have not participated in the email side of things. Recently, I became a full fledged member of the list and have enjoyed the daily emails, but am dismayed by the typical macho cr*p that gets spread around on here. Whenever topics concerning safety come up, it's always the same old b.s: "I'm such a great pilot that I don't need it. Why, when I sarted flying they didn't even have planes. We'd have to rope and saddle a pteradactyl!" or some such bull. It gets real old. When I first started flying, one of these old cowboys told me that wearing seatbelts while at altitude was not required and of no use. That very same day, while flying around with my girlfriend, the right door flew open while doing a steep turn. I am absolutely certain that she would have fallen to her death had I taken that old blowhard's advice. Do you think he would have gone with me to explain things to her parents? The bottom line is that you don't equip a plane with safety equipment for when things go right, it's for when things go wrong -- and things do go wrong. If someone wants to try to make their plane goof proof, I say more power to 'em. Steve Zicree P.S. I remember watching my dad cut the seatbelts out of a brand new car when I was a boy -- called em newfangled cr*p. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Stall warning (opinionated) > > > > What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly experienced > > pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of a > > safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really > > gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may > > dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase > the > > safety level for those who do not "fly enough". > > Jim said "George has a point". > > George says - > > Thanks gentleman for an interesting discussion, however I think that I may > not have made my point. > > My point is that no matter how good you are (or think you are) there are > situations for which you cannot fully train yourself and that is when a > inexpensive safety device such as stall warning or AOA may be instrumental > in a successful conclusion to your flight. > > One respected pilot wrote, RV's give a (marginal) buffet warning before the > stall and with proficiency it is easily recognized, and I agree, but my > point is would you recognize this pre-stall buffet if the aircraft was > shaking violently because the prop spinner is coming off, and the airspeed > indicator is just a blur, I think not! > > Another experienced pilot points out that we can take off and fly quite > safely with the pitot tube plugged by wasps, and I agree, it is actually > quite easy to fly without airspeed. Everyone should practice flying with the > airspeed indicator covered to cater for this non-normal procedure. But step > this non-normal up one level to a true emergency, a flock of geese took out > your airspeed plus one, with no boarding pass, came through the canopy > breaking your glasses and shaking you up, your aircraft is now vibrating, > has more drag, lots of noise and you are having trouble seeing - now will a > inexpensive safety device be helpful?? > > And from the tone of some posts I think that some respected pilots have > fallen into the same trap as myself. > When I was 19 and had 300 hours I could make perfect landings and really did > know everything there was about flying, except for one puzzling thing, why > did VFR pilots fly into IFR conditions. Not flying enough or were they just > not as good as me? > > By the time I was in my thirties I was a 737 Captain and our company was > giving us quarterly recurrent simulator training. > I booked extra time and practiced every emergency the simulator could > reproduce, manual reversions, engine fires, single engine go-around, they > were all a piece of cake. My attitude was "show me something I can't > handle". Of course that was before we knew about the rudder hard over > problem. (sidebar - later when we went to bi-annual two day training > sessions they were more humbling - there really is a difference between > practicing quarterly or bi-annually). > Now as a retired 747 captain I realize that some of my attitudes were > downright dumb because I was only looking at my own narrow little envelope. > I now consider myself a student pilot again. > > To reiterate, my point is this, it really doesn't matter if one adds or > leaves out any safety device, that is for each individual builder to decide. > However in my opinion, more experienced pilots should not belittle any > device that may be beneficial to those with less experience! > > George in Langley > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky while you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach 45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull and pull and pull... Can you open it? Has anyone ever? Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff and stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the other latch the handle. ----- Original Message ----- From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end > for fear of it opening further un flight. > > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open > a few inches. > What are the groups experiences? > > > --- > > --- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Stall warning etc.
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I've tried to resist getting into this due to a busy schedule, but.... I installed the PSS-AOA Sport when building, then after completion added the Dynon and the AOA probe. Both are excellent. When I installed the Dynon I thought I might remove the PSS AOA and sell it, but instead I've installed it into the glaresheild, facing up to give me a heads-up display, which works Ok in sunlight and of coarse great on cloudy days. Having learned to fly in my own creation, I've little flying experience without an AOA, but feel it is an extremely valuable tool which not only adds to flight safety, it allows me to make my landings consistently short and precise, something that is important to me as I work on building a difficult and challenging future strip at home. I like these AOA's so much that I will definitely keep both of them. An experienced pilot that has never had one, probably wouldn't use it if it was in the panel, but any low-time, new, or non-pilots out there that are currently building would do well to strongly consider one of these. Also, don't assume that I've become reliant on this gizmo, as I have learned the "feel" of my plane, but I'd sooner lose my ASI, than one of these. Ps. Sometime ago somebody was asking about the Dynon AOA and I didn't see any replies. The PSS-AOA actually measures AOA, while the Dynon is more of an "inferential" measurement, so I didn't expect it to be as accurate. But I've found that it very closely follows the PSS, so is every bit as accurate. The biggest advantages to the PSS-AOA is that it has an audible output which is valuable, (the new Dynon is supposed to have this), it does a self test every time it turns on and notifies you if it fails (power it up before removing snow from the wings(covering pressure port)and it will notify you of an error) and that it can be mounted to give a heads-up display, while the Dynon display can be slightly cluttered (still love it though). Anybody using or planning on a Dynon really should pop the extra couple hundred bucks, for what really is the best priced heated pitot tube on the market, and get an AOA included! Pss. Anybody wanna buy my old (almost new) heated pitot tube? Todd Bartrim RV9Endurance 13B Turbo Rotary C-FSTB http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm "The world will always have a place for those that bring hard work and determination to the things they do." ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I've cjecked into this and the only one I know of was an -8. Bryan >You unlatch your slider and pull >and pull and pull... > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > >Kathleen Evans >www.rv7.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Gray <n747jg(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: AOA
Date: Nov 12, 2004
One of those famous aviation truisms.......why do we do it that way? Because weve always done it that way. It doesnt mean its the best way to do it. To those that feel that AOA is not a valuable addition to an aircraft because they have survived 20 years, or 30 years or 40 years, without it, I think you are missing the point. Because you survived without it doesnt mean its the better way to fly. airplanes with and without AOA, there is no question in my mind that AOA is better than no AOA. The reasons would be too lengthy to list here. V/R Jim Gray RV-8 with AOA under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com>
Subject: O-320 oil temps
Date: Nov 12, 2004
The oil temp on my RV-3 with an O320 generally runs 150 at most, no matter what. No, I havent calibrated the senders, but two different ones agree within a few degrees (the original bulb and the sender on the currently installed GRT engine monitor). From many comments lately on the list, it looks like O-320s in general run cool. People do all sorts of stuff that amounts to different ways of blocking off the oil cooler air inlet and/or outlet to try to get the oil to warm up. This brings up an obvious question. Do we really need an oil cooler on an O-320? Has anyone gone the no-cooler route or have some words of wisdom for me? Thanks Johnny Johnson 49MM RV-3A 160 Lyc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out? > >So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky while >you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your >RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach >45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the >airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull >and pull and pull... > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > >Kathleen Evans >www.rv7.us > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > >Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff and >stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It >closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the >other latch the handle. > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > > > > > > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I > > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end > > for fear of it opening further un flight. > > > > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. >I > > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only >open > > a few inches. > > What are the groups experiences? > > > > > > --- > > > > > >--- > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: O-320 oil temps
Why is there oil going through the cooler at 150? > >The oil temp on my RV-3 with an O320 generally runs 150 at most, no matter >what. No, I havent calibrated the senders, but two different ones agree >within a few degrees (the original bulb and the sender on the currently >installed GRT engine monitor). From many comments lately on the list, it >looks like O-320s in general run cool. People do all sorts of stuff that >amounts to different ways of blocking off the oil cooler air inlet and/or >outlet to try to get the oil to warm up. > >This brings up an obvious question. Do we really need an oil cooler on an >O-320? Has anyone gone the no-cooler route or have some words of wisdom for >me? > >Thanks > >Johnny Johnson >49MM RV-3A 160 Lyc > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: O-320 oil temps
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Great question, I have been wanting to ask the same since mine never goes above 170 and I would love to make room and save weight, so I hope someone has the answer. John RV6A O-320 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-9A QB rivet access.
Hi Pete, You mean you're not flying yet, and don't care about AOA stall warning devices, and flying without latching the canopy? Just kidding. I used the edge of a piece of half inch steel plate (actually my back riveting plate, but its a little big) for a bucking bar to do most of the canopy sill rivets, and used pop rivets between the front and rear F-721-A and -B pieces. Also, you can use the flat side of a punch backed up by a bucking bar some places. Another trick is to taper the front of the F-721-B to get access to the bottom of the bolt that holds the roll bar on if yours is a slider. Hope this helps. Dan Hopper RV-7A N766DH (Flying since July) In a message dated 11/10/04 9:45:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time, pete.howell@gecko-group.com writes: > > > Hello, > > I am trying to get access to the rivets under the F-721-B for the F-705 on > my -9A QB. Is it a case of making some creative bucking bars, or have > people cut off the slotted flange of the F-721B to get access. Other ideas > appreciated........ > > Thanks, > > Pete > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Stall warning etc.]
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Todd, I love the "HUD" display thing! David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire(at)telus.net> Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc. > I installed the PSS-AOA Sport when building, then after completion added the > Dynon and the AOA probe. Both are excellent. When I installed the Dynon I > thought I might remove the PSS AOA and sell it, but instead I've installed > it into the glaresheild, facing up to give me a heads-up display, which > works Ok in sunlight and of coarse great on cloudy days. > Todd Bartrim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Never done it. Hope I never have to. But I installed quick release pins just in case. http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2003/11/canopy.html - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us [mailto:Kathleen(at)rv7.us] > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 3:10 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to > blue sky while you chatter into the intercom telling your > friend how easy it is in your RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" > Next you're whistling toward earth at mach 45, but not > worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the > airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your > slider and pull and pull and pull... > > Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > > Kathleen Evans > www.rv7.us ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Stall Training
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Recent discussion here and an article in Flying talked about the reduced focus on stall training in modern flight instruction programs, and seemed to question the need for stall / spin training. Maybe I'm missing something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane - isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall occurs? Granted, recovery from a full blown stall at low altitude or in the pattern is a dicey proposition, so shouldn't the training focus on recognition of the where the stall is about to occur ? I adhere to the old Navy adage: The edge IS still part of the envelope. Paul Valovich Booger ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: O-320 oil temps
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Our O-320 runs warm. On hot days during climb I have seen oil temps as high as 220 I think. Spoke with Bart about the temps and he said all was well. On the other hand, getting the EGT and CHT up on our engine is another story. James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Furey > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:45 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: O-320 oil temps > > > Great question, I have been wanting to ask the same since mine never goes > above 170 and I would love to make room and save weight, so I hope someone > has the answer. > > John > RV6A O-320 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tony Marshall" <tony(at)lambros.com>
Subject: Rich Meske's "Tip-up Slider"
Date: Nov 12, 2004
In the not too distant past I came across a posting where someone had improved (modified) Rich's canopy mod. Now I am unable to find it. As I recall the mod had to do with the spring loaded canopy stop included with Rich's kit. I would appreciate hearing (seeing) what that mod looks like. I am getting ready to install the kit on my 6. Thanks. Tony Marshall ArtDeco RV6 www.lambros.com P.O. Box 906 Polson, MT 59860 800-432-6828 Office 406-249-0835 Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Howard Walrath" <der_Jagdflieger(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
A related question to those posed below is the provision in many "Tilt-Up" RV-6/6A's that are equipped with an emergency handle in the panel that will pull out the canopy arm hinge pins. Some builders have remarked that they have found that useful to allow complete removal of the tilt-up canopy for working behind the instrument panel. My RV-6A does not have that pin removal provision and I have often wondered whether it would reaaly work to jetison the canopy to permit bail out or -- just to try and obviate having to try and break out through the canopy when upside down if an off-airport landing on unsuitable terrain was imminent. During one of Van's forums at Air Venture 2004, I posed that question to Van's chief engineer, and his staff remarked that they didn't know if it would work in flight and didn't know of anyone who'd tried to jettison a tip-up. Maybe someone on this list knows of someone who has. Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to > just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out? > > >> >>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky >>while >>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your >>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach >>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the >>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull >>and pull and pull... >> >>Can you open it? Has anyone ever? >> >>Kathleen Evans >>www.rv7.us >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight >> >> >>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff >>and >>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It >>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the >>other latch the handle. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight >> >> >> > >> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I >> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway >> > end >> > for fear of it opening further un flight. >> > >> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by >> > itself. >>I >> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only >>open >> > a few inches. >> > What are the groups experiences? >> > >> > >> > --- >> > >> > >> >>--- >> >> > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
From: Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com
Date: Nov 12, 2004
11/12/2004 09:46:59 AM, Serialize complete at 11/12/2004 09:46:59 AM Kathleen, That is why a lot of people put pull-pins to hold the front rollers. That way, you pull the pins, push the canopy up a little and hopefully it rips from the plane and out you go to join the caterpillar club. Scott Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com 11/12/2004 07:12 AM Please respond to rv-list To: rv-list(at)matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out? > >So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky while >you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your >RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach >45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the >airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull >and pull and pull... > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > >Kathleen Evans >www.rv7.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: O-320 oil temps
>>>>>>> My 150 hp E3D with a Positech (new style) cooler rarely gets over 180 during the summer and I've only see it over 200 on looooong climbs with the ambient above 90. I do have it firewall mounted and fed with a 3" scat from the left plenum and have a cockpit adjustable butterfly to control airflow through it. During the winter it stays shut most of the time to get 180, so maybe I didn't need all this stuff anyway! From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: RV 10 simulator
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Anybody know of an RV 10 model for microsoft flight sim 2004? Thanks in advance... Evan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: Stall Training
In a message dated 11/12/2004 10:11:03 AM Central Standard Time, pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com writes: Maybe I'm missing something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane - isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall occurs? >>>>>>> I asked my CFI during intitial training about spins- we climbed to 6K and he demonstrated. First time was a HUGE eye opener, never having been dirty-side-up before, but we did several more with me on the controls and the big difference between the first and the rest convinced me that if I had never seen a spin, the first time I got into one accidentally I'd be too busy crapping my drawers to react quickly, regardless of how many times I'd been coached on the correct recovery or how many times I had practiced stalls. I'd highly recommend doing spins with a well-qualified instructor during initial training or at least get it in aero asap. One of those "most valuable moments" I've ever had in an airplane! FWIW- Mark Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Training
Valovich, Paul wrote: > >Recent discussion here and an article in Flying talked about the reduced >focus on stall training in modern flight instruction programs, and >seemed to question the need for stall / spin training. Maybe I'm missing >something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane - >isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in >all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall >occurs? > I received all my training for my private license in a 2-place Grumman ...... spins prohibited. The first opportunity to practice spins came in a T-34 (which I used to make many instructors sick .... paybacks are hell!) and now I do them a lot in my Pitts. I don't agree with not requiring some spin training for the private. As with comments on the AOA thread ..... being able to explore the slow edge of flight (and the onset of a stall/spin scenario) may just save somebody's bacon down the road when they get complacent. The original Grumman Yankee suffered from approach to landing stall/spin accidents and garnered an undeserved reputation ..... but the accidents were due to poor (or no) training when 150 pilots were transitioning to the little Grummans ..... whose only requirement was to maintain flying speed ..... a little higher than the 150's ..... and control sink rate with throttle, not elevator. Again, if the incident had occured with sufficient altitude recovery is possible (in the Grumman) if action is taken swiftly. The Grummans proclivity to spin only occurs outside the normal operating envelope and illadvised use of the rudder. However, with the Grumman, you get two distinct warnings ...... burbling and associated noise as the airflow over the wing starts to unattach ..... then the stall horn goes off ....... and if you persist in your activity, finally it will stall. So, what's this got to do with RV's? Well, I've not got much time in them .... but not one of the aircraft I've flown was without some buffeting prior to the stall. Depending on the wing shape, AOA, and airspeed, the time between buffetting and stall can get pretty short. But it's still there, and not being trained to know what that noise means leads me to speculate that stall/spin accidents will increase. My (unsolicited) advice is to get some practice with a pilot experienced in the same model ...... and go explore the nether regions of the flight envelope until you're comfortable doing it by yourself ..... bearing in mind that with a passenger/instructor the airspeeds will be a little different than with just one pilot. Go out and have fun with your airplane .... but I have a warning .... if you get into the 'aerobatic' regions ..... aierbatics can be terribly addictive ..... I know, because I'm addicted ..... and when the -10 is done, I'll still have two airplanes for their two different missions. Linn > > >Granted, recovery from a full blown stall at low altitude or in the >pattern is a dicey proposition, so shouldn't the training focus on >recognition of the where the stall is about to occur ? I adhere to the >old Navy adage: The edge IS still part of the envelope. > >Paul Valovich > >Booger > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back approx .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound do no good for me. Dont all slider canopies have to move back before they can move upward? > >Kathleen, > >That is why a lot of people put pull-pins to hold the front rollers. That >way, you pull the pins, push the canopy up a little and hopefully it rips >from the plane and out you go to join the caterpillar club. > >Scott > > >Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> >Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >11/12/2004 07:12 AM >Please respond to rv-list > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > cc: > Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > >Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to >just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out? > > > > > >So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky >while > >you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your > >RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at >mach > >45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the > >airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull > >and pull and pull... > > > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > > > >Kathleen Evans > >www.rv7.us > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PSPRV6A(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 11/11/04
Re: Stall warning. I am a typical 30-year Cessna "driver," 1,100 hours or so. Everone knows the "sick cat" wail of the Cessna stall warner. It only surprised me only once, on the well-known tailwind on base leg scenario & saved the day. Once is enough! Our 6A nearing completion has the Lift Reserve Indicator. Paul S. Petersen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back > approx > .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound > do > no good for me. Why not? Just pull the pins, slide it back slightly, push up and it's gone. Jim Daniels ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net>
Subject: TXM-O360
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I am at the point where I need to buy an engine . . . I'm leaning toward the TXM-O360 from Mattituck/Teledyne . . . this appears to be a professional shop with a good reputation. Their price is competitive. Does anyone out there have experience with the TXM-360 and/or Mattituck that they would be willing to share? Thanks, Bob Christensen RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 11/11/04
PSPRV6A(at)aol.com wrote: > > Re: Stall warning. > I am a typical 30-year Cessna "driver," 1,100 hours or so. Everone > knows the "sick cat" wail of the Cessna stall warner. It only surprised me only > once, on the well-known tailwind on base leg scenario & saved the day. Once is > enough! Our 6A nearing completion has the Lift Reserve Indicator. > Uh oh........the dasterdly downwind turn demon has reappeared!!! Bunches of opinions in the archives. :-) Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with LRI) http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: TXM-O360
Date: Nov 12, 2004
yes, i've ordered stuff from them. No problems. Mahlon represents them and he's just an awesome "internet resource". Like 'lectric Bob but with a torque wrench instead of a multi-meter on his desk. > > > I am at the point where I need to buy an engine . . . I'm leaning toward the > TXM-O360 from Mattituck/Teledyne . . . this appears to be a professional > shop with a good reputation. Their price is competitive. > > Does anyone out there have experience with the TXM-360 and/or Mattituck that > they would be willing to share? > > Thanks, > Bob Christensen > RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
yep, and the one time we took off in an 8 with it partially opened we couldn't not get it to move no matter how hard pushed. Seems if you are going much higher than stall speeds the darn air pressure pushing down on the top of the canopy is like a lock. Which is wierd because the canopy skirt at the rear has a low pressure and likes to rise and air enters in on the rear seater's neck. > > I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back approx > .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound do > no good for me. Dont all slider canopies have to move back before they can > move upward? > > > > > >Kathleen, > > > >That is why a lot of people put pull-pins to hold the front rollers. That > >way, you pull the pins, push the canopy up a little and hopefully it rips > >from the plane and out you go to join the caterpillar club. > > > >Scott > > > > > >Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > >Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > >11/12/2004 07:12 AM > >Please respond to rv-list > > > > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > cc: > > Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > > > ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > >Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to > >just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out? > > > > > > > > > >So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky > >while > > >you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your > > >RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at > >mach > > >45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the > > >airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull > > >and pull and pull... > > > > > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > > > > > >Kathleen Evans > > >www.rv7.us > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless maybe I have some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and I am amazed at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in flight. No insults intended towards anyone just my experience. > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back > > approx > > .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound > > do > > no good for me. > >Why not? Just pull the pins, slide it back slightly, push up and it's >gone. > >Jim Daniels > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless maybe I > have > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and I am > amazed > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in flight. No > insults intended towards anyone just my experience. None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can be ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it has (tragically) been proven already? Jim Daniels ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: TXM-O360
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Bob, I have a friend who has a Cessna 210 with a turbo normalized 6 cyl. He had Mattituck do the over haul and they did an excellent job. This is noted from my friend who worked with Malihon and the help and SERVICE that he got from them. Many will build but if things don't go exactly the way you want , the service from them to get you on your way is worth a few bucks. I will be needing a new engine and they will get my order. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Your right, with a fire you still have control of the plane so it is possible. If the plane is broke and your speed is up, I dont think it is going to happen. Hmmmmmm, I am thinking of carrying something to pry the canopy open with now, its starting to sound like a better and better idea, it can also double for a canopy breaker to get out if flipped over. I just dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I guess that was my main point. Im done on this topic. > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless maybe I > > have > > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and I am > > amazed > > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in flight. No > > insults intended towards anyone just my experience. > >None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can be >ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it has >(tragically) been proven already? > >Jim Daniels > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Rich Meske's "Tip-up Slider"
I'm interested in any improvements there too. I have installed mine already - but it could be bettter. Ralph Capen -----Original Message----- From: Tony Marshall <tony(at)lambros.com> Subject: RV-List: Rich Meske's "Tip-up Slider" In the not too distant past I came across a posting where someone had improved (modified) Rich's canopy mod. Now I am unable to find it. As I recall the mod had to do with the spring loaded canopy stop included with Rich's kit. I would appreciate hearing (seeing) what that mod looks like. I am getting ready to install the kit on my 6. Thanks. Tony Marshall ArtDeco RV6 www.lambros.com P.O. Box 906 Polson, MT 59860 800-432-6828 Office 406-249-0835 Cell ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
> I just > dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I guess > that > was my main point. Im done on this topic. Agreed, I'm not trying to trivialize the point, and it is likely not possible in all situations. Remember, though, that testing the waters trying to partially open your canopy on a fun flight is entirely different than a real life emergency situation. I'm guessing that if that sucker *must* go, you'll come up with a lot more effort. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: hand held radio
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Guys, I am in need of a portable (hand held) back up radio. The old radio in my C-150 went south and I dont feel like replacing it. I am planning on buying a new X-com or micro air for my RV 10 but I am not allowed to use either in the Cessna. So I thought I would just invest now in a back up to use until I am ready to buy for the RV. Just wondering what everybody else is using and where the best deals are. Thanks a bunch....Evan www.evansaviationproducts.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: hand held radio
Hi Evan, I've been using the Icom IC-A5 as my standy and have been happy with it. Features I like: - BNC antenna - Lighted display _and_ numbers - Water resistant - Small (I actually carry it in my Lightspeed headset bag w/ the headset) - WX freqs When I purchased it, ICOM had a special going on and I got the NiMH and charger. A pretty good desc is here: http://www.acespilotshop.com/pilot-supplies/handheld/icom-a5-com.htm Regards, /\/elson On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > > Guys, I am in need of a portable (hand held) back up radio. The old radio in > my C-150 went south and I dont feel like replacing it. I am planning on > buying a new X-com or micro air for my RV 10 but I am not allowed to use > either in the Cessna. So I thought I would just invest now in a back up to > use until I am ready to buy for the RV. Just wondering what everybody else is > using and where the best deals are. Thanks a bunch....Evan > www.evansaviationproducts.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: Re: hand held radio
Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > >Guys, I am in need of a portable (hand held) back up radio. The old radio in my C-150 went south and I dont feel like replacing it. I am planning on buying a new X-com or micro air for my RV 10 but I am not allowed to use either in the Cessna. So I thought I would just invest now in a back up to use until I am ready to buy for the RV. Just wondering what everybody else is using and where the best deals are. >Thanks a bunch....Evan >www.evansaviationproducts.com > You might scour the radio shops for a used one instead of going the handheld route. Check TAP too. Even Ebay. If/when you go to sell the airplane, not having a functioning radio will take a big bite out of the selling price. I guess it's kinda like pay me now or pay me later. You may not be satisfied using the handheld as a primary radio ...... I use the Icom ICA-4 in my Pitts, and its a PITA to tune and only has 10 stored freqs. Linn Linn > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: AOA
on opie.wvnet.edu The debate over the AOA/stall warning device is not about how good it is or how many lives it will save. I doubt anyone is saying that it is totally useless. What some of us are disagreeing about is the comment heard from many proponents: "Every RV should have one" The hidden meaning is: 1. How can you fly without one. 2. If you fly without one you are a stupid reckless pilot that should be banned from the airways. 3. I know best what you need in your RV (in some cases made by people who don't fly RVs who based their judgments on the Airlines or the Military) What we are talking about is risk management. Does the pilot think he can handle the risks or not? For the AOA proponents, would you ground your aircraft if your AOA was inoperative? Do you consider it mandatory for any flight? Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Second hand info, but I hear the -4 canopy departs the airframe immediately after unlatching it. Tracy Crook I've cjecked into this and the only one I know of was an -8. Bryan >You unlatch your slider and pull >and pull and pull... > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > >Kathleen Evans >www.rv7.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Training
Date: Nov 12, 2004
This FAA sanctioned/fostered/promoted "approach to stalls"/"start recovery at the first indication of a stall" thing is the single most serious safety problem that exists in this country, in General Aviation - in my opinion. It is the only aviation issue I am absolutely PASSIONATE about. - All pilots should be - but are not -properly instructed in the essential knowledge of safe recovery from a stall. The bi-annual reviews and initial flight instruction have been fatally poisoned by the FAA idiocy so that I see no evidence of proper instruction and practice. When I attended AirAdventure at Oshkosh about 3 years ago, three aircraft crashed due to stall turning final over the course of the event. I went to the FAA exhibit area and shared my frustration with one of the "Ops" types there. He listened, agreed, and said, "Why don't you go home and write that up?" I said to him, "Why don't you - you are on the taxpayer's salary and are on the inside of the system!" He was silent. Wasn't his job. No one should die from momentarily stalling an aircraft in the turn to final. Death follows trying to maneuver the aircraft while STILL STALLED - trying to roll wings level when one one starts dropping due to being stalled and riding the aircraft into the ground because the ailerons weren't making the plane roll out, etc, etc, until he/they impact past inverted and/or way nose low (unsurvivable). - Som guys in the F-100 used to do the same thing: Would be at 350KIAS on base leg in the gunnery pattern and roll into a turn to final. If/when they pulled too hard/got to a high AOA - not even stalled but "high" - we eventually learned (John Boyd figured it out and taught everyone else) that the only way to roll the F-100 at high AOA was stick in the center (laterally) and use slight rudder to cause slight yaw, which caused POWERFUL roll in the direction you wanted to roll. It wasn't noticeably "uncoordinated", was NOT "turning with the rudder" as we sometimes demonstrate in a Cessna, to show how NOT to turn - it was simply a reality that the F-100 had such horrendous "adverse yaw" from the "down aileron" that the aileron would produce more yaw than the rudder. You had to use rudder to roll - at high AOA. These guys turning final would crash/impact going the OPPOSITE direction from the target - they would be in a left pattern, load up the aircraft (increase AOA) and use left aileron - result was a RIGHT roll away from the target, they'd fight it and put in MORE left aileron, the airplane would continue to depart to the RIGHT and they'd fly the plane right into the ground fighting the "roll in the opposite direction". Well, what does this have to do with straight wing aircraft which don't have that much adverse yaw? The simple fact that there IS adverse yaw in all our straight wing aircraft - the Wright brothers found it and added a rudder to compensate. Other than crossed controls for slipping on final and/or in the flare for touchdown in presence of a crosswind, the primary purpose of the rudder is to cancel out adverse yaw when rolling into and out of turns.. - Guys who have spent their whole life only "APPROACHING a stall" and never MOMENTARILY play with ailerons IN the stall, don't have a clue that they can and will actually induce a pro-spin control input by trying to raise a wing while it is still stalled. That is the whole point of this discussion - keep the ball in the center and don't try to roll BEFORE you REDUCE AOA and UNSTALL the wing. I teach: 1) Reduce AOA (now the wing is no longer stalled) and THEN roll wings level and use power and pitch to avoid the ground. In a Cessna 172 I typically lose 50' in the recovery from a straight ahead level flight stall. If you are turning final, overshooting due to being in too close or being blown in too close by improperly compensated wind, you abandon the attempt to align with the runway and go around at some angle to the runway, but you are alive. 2) You must start your recovery - even when practicing under controlled condition - before you allow the aircraft to develop ANGULAR MOMENTUM in roll. Release back pressure (unstall), roll out, and pull up. It is a simultaneous, instantaneous recovery. NO ONE SHOULD EVER DIE IN A "TURN TO FINAL STALL". I demonstrate this to a student with a slow power reduction in wings level flight holding altitude. I reduce power just enough to let the aircraft slow enough to stall in level flight. We lose 50' in the recovery, without even having to add full power. - After the student sees that the airplane is not going to "flip upside down and/or spin" when it fully stalls, I then demo it by holding the aircraft in the stall, with Cessna wheel full back against the mechanical stop, keeping the ball in the center with the rudder, and watch the vertical velocity tell us that we are falling at a significant rate. We note altitude, relax back pressure and add power and recover to level flight - don't lose much altitude. Then we do it in a simulated turn to final - pull into a full stall and when one wing starts to drop, we instantly relax back pressure and roll out (unstalled) and use pitch and power to recover. 1. Don't try to roll or control the bank angle when stalled. 2. Don't let any roll momentum build up before reducing AOA and recovering. David Carter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> Subject: RV-List: Stall Training > > Recent discussion here and an article in Flying talked about the reduced > focus on stall training in modern flight instruction programs, and > seemed to question the need for stall / spin training. Maybe I'm missing > something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane - > isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in > all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall > occurs? > > > Granted, recovery from a full blown stall at low altitude or in the > pattern is a dicey proposition, so shouldn't the training focus on > recognition of the where the stall is about to occur ? I adhere to the > old Navy adage: The edge IS still part of the envelope. > > Paul Valovich > > Booger > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Stall Training
I can still hear my instructor's voice in my head as we were doing approach stalls: "Lower the nose! Level the wings! Add power! When the airspeed is good, fly out of it." David Carter wrote: >No one should die from momentarily stalling an aircraft in the turn to >final. Death follows trying to maneuver the aircraft while STILL STALLED - >trying to roll wings level when one one starts dropping due to being stalled >and riding the aircraft into the ground because the ailerons weren't making >the plane roll out, etc, etc, until he/they impact past inverted and/or way >nose low (unsurvivable). > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
From: cecilth(at)juno.com
Seems to me that if you install a 'pull pin' at each side if the canopy where it connects to the roller (on a slider). In flight, just pull both pins, undo open the handle, push up on the canopy, and its gone, period. This is for emergency only. Am I wrong?? Cecil <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> writes: > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > Your right, with a fire you still have control of the plane so it is > > possible. If the plane is broke and your speed is up, I dont think > it is > going to happen. Hmmmmmm, I am thinking of carrying something to pry > the > canopy open with now, its starting to sound like a better and better > idea, > it can also double for a canopy breaker to get out if flipped over. > I just > dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I > guess that > was my main point. Im done on this topic. > > > > > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > > > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless > maybe I > > > have > > > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and > I am > > > amazed > > > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in > flight. No > > > insults intended towards anyone just my experience. > > > >None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can > be > >ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it > has > >(tragically) been proven already? > > > >Jim Daniels > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Stall Training
At 02:37 PM 11/12/2004, you wrote: > > > > I asked my CFI during intitial training about spins- we climbed to 6K and >he > > demonstrated. First time was a HUGE eye opener, never having been > > dirty-side-up before, > > > > Mark Phillips > >================================= > >Dirty side up???? > >Are you sure? > > >Bob Bob, Actually, most aircraft will go inverted momentarily when a spin is initiated. You are still moving forward at about 50 mph, and the wind against the underneath of the wing at the moment of stall/spin initiation forces the upper wing to roll the aircraft inverted, or nearly so, at the first turn progresses. The nose then drops and the aircraft remains belly down. I don't know if all aircraft respond this way, but my C-150 would do this. I think William Kirschner describes this in his " The Basic Aerobatic Manual" Louis Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
With all this talk of canopy jettison, I'm wondering if anyone knows of a case where a pilot tried to get out and failed? Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: <cecilth(at)juno.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > Seems to me that if you install a 'pull pin' at each side if the canopy > where it connects to the roller (on a slider). > In flight, just pull both pins, undo open the handle, push up on the > canopy, and its gone, period. This is for emergency only. Am I wrong?? > Cecil > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> writes: > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > Your right, with a fire you still have control of the plane so it is > > > > possible. If the plane is broke and your speed is up, I dont think > > it is > > going to happen. Hmmmmmm, I am thinking of carrying something to pry > > the > > canopy open with now, its starting to sound like a better and better > > idea, > > it can also double for a canopy breaker to get out if flipped over. > > I just > > dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I > > guess that > > was my main point. Im done on this topic. > > > > > > > > > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > > > > > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless > > maybe I > > > > have > > > > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and > > I am > > > > amazed > > > > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in > > flight. No > > > > insults intended towards anyone just my experience. > > > > > >None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can > > be > > >ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it > > has > > >(tragically) been proven already? > > > > > >Jim Daniels > > > > > > > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > Eng dept 305 > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
Very good idea. Have you tried pulling the pins with LOTS of pressure on the canopy? We'd probably all like to know if it works. Just don't break your canopy trying.. :-) Kathleen Evans www.rv7.us -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen Subject: RE: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question Never done it. Hope I never have to. But I installed quick release pins just in case. http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2003/11/canopy.html - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us [mailto:Kathleen(at)rv7.us] > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 3:10 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to > blue sky while you chatter into the intercom telling your > friend how easy it is in your RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" > Next you're whistling toward earth at mach 45, but not > worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the > airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your > slider and pull and pull and pull... > > Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > > Kathleen Evans > www.rv7.us ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)comcast.net>
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7 tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable forces. In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift struts, pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit the aircraft. The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level and in control of the aircraft, why jump out? The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy. Ed Cole RV6A N2169D Flying RV6A N648RV Finishing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard Walrath Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question A related question to those posed below is the provision in many "Tilt-Up" RV-6/6A's that are equipped with an emergency handle in the panel that will pull out the canopy arm hinge pins. Some builders have remarked that they have found that useful to allow complete removal of the tilt-up canopy for working behind the instrument panel. My RV-6A does not have that pin removal provision and I have often wondered whether it would reaaly work to jetison the canopy to permit bail out or -- just to try and obviate having to try and break out through the canopy when upside down if an off-airport landing on unsuitable terrain was imminent. During one of Van's forums at Air Venture 2004, I posed that question to Van's chief engineer, and his staff remarked that they didn't know if it would work in flight and didn't know of anyone who'd tried to jettison a tip-up. Maybe someone on this list knows of someone who has. Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to > just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out? > > >> >>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky >>while >>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your >>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach >>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the >>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull >>and pull and pull... >> >>Can you open it? Has anyone ever? >> >>Kathleen Evans >>www.rv7.us >> >> >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight >> >> >>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff >>and >>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It >>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the >>other latch the handle. >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> >>To: >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight >> >> >> > >> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I >> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway >> > end >> > for fear of it opening further un flight. >> > >> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by >> > itself. >>I >> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only >>open >> > a few inches. >> > What are the groups experiences? >> > >> > >> > --- >> > >> > >> >>--- >> >> > > > Scott Bilinski > Eng dept 305 > Phone (858) 657-2536 > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to do that. Is the downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman can lift it, even when his/her life depends on it? I once met a guy who bailed out of a Decathlon when the aft stick got tangled up on the rear seatbelt during spins. Granted, the door on a Decathlon is much smaller than a canopy, but he did open it in spite of being tossed about. It's also worth noting that in such a mishap, the aircraft is stalled and thus at a very high angle of attack. I believe that in such an attitude the canopy might be quite easy to get rid of. Steve Zicree ----- Original Message ----- From: "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)comcast.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7 > tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be > lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable > forces. > In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift > struts, > pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against > a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit > the aircraft. > The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to > go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level > and in control of the aircraft, why jump out? > The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be > practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with > an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy. > > > Ed Cole > RV6A N2169D Flying > RV6A N648RV Finishing > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard Walrath > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > > A related question to those posed below is the provision > in many "Tilt-Up" RV-6/6A's that are equipped with an > emergency handle in the panel that will pull out the canopy > arm hinge pins. Some builders have remarked that they > have found that useful to allow complete removal of the > tilt-up canopy for working behind the instrument panel. > > My RV-6A does not have that pin removal provision and > I have often wondered whether it would reaaly work to > jetison the canopy to permit bail out or -- just to try and obviate > having to try and break out through the canopy when upside > down if an off-airport landing on unsuitable terrain was imminent. > > During one of Van's forums at Air Venture 2004, I posed that > question to Van's chief engineer, and his staff remarked that they > didn't know if it would work in flight and didn't know of anyone > who'd tried to jettison a tip-up. Maybe someone on this list knows > of someone who has. > > Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> > > > > Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down > to > > just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail > out? > > > > > >> > >>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky > > >>while > >>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in > your > >>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at > mach > >>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control > the > >>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and > pull > >>and pull and pull... > >> > >>Can you open it? Has anyone ever? > >> > >>Kathleen Evans > >>www.rv7.us > >> > >> > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu > >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > >> > >> > >>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on > takeoff > >>and > >>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. > It > >>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, > the > >>other latch the handle. > >> > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> > >>To: > >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight > >> > >> > >> > > >> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try > as I > >> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the > runway > >> > end > >> > for fear of it opening further un flight. > >> > > >> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by > >> > itself. > >>I > >> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is > only > >>open > >> > a few inches. > >> > What are the groups experiences? > >> > > >> > > >> > --- > >> > > >> > > >> > >>--- > >> > >> > > > > > > Scott Bilinski > > Eng dept 305 > > Phone (858) 657-2536 > > Pager (858) 502-5190 > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
steve zicree wrote: > > I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only > exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to do that. Is the > downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman can lift it, even > when his/her life depends on it? Yes. Now......prove I'm wrong............ :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I don't want to prove anyone wrong, but I'm curious about just how much downforce is created. If it really is on the order of hundreds of pounds, shouldn't Vans try to develop a more efficient canopy? All that force is shoving the aircraft downward and taking away from useful baggage, fuel capacity, etc. Are you also saying that this tremendous force exists while in a spin? I really don't understand how this can be. Can you explain? Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > steve zicree wrote: > > > > I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only > > exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to do that. Is the > > downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman can lift it, even > > when his/her life depends on it? > > > Yes. > > Now......prove I'm wrong............ :-) > > Sam Buchanan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
I can think of one situation where I'd open the canopy and egress under controlled flight. Anyone remember Von Alexander? There's more reasons than just loss of control to open your canopy. Edward Cole wrote: > >If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7 >tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be >lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable >forces. >In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift >struts, >pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against >a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit >the aircraft. >The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to >go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level >and in control of the aircraft, why jump out? >The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be >practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with >an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy. > > >Ed Cole >RV6A N2169D Flying >RV6A N648RV Finishing > > -- Scott VanArtsdalen Van Arts Consulting Services 3848 McHenry Ave Suite #155-184 Modesto, CA 95356 209-986-4647 Ps 34:4,6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 12, 2004
I remember well, and sadly have to agree. The circumstances that would require and allow a succesful egress and chute deployment are very, very narrow indeed. However, if things do come to it, it may be the ONLY way to survive and therefore deserves thoughtful consideration. The tone of many of the more experienced gents on here brings to mind another highly experienced master of machinery who didn't take the claims of safety equipment advocates seriously and paid: Dale Earnhardt. When I started flying only 4 short years ago, every old timer I met said that GPS was crap and would never take the place of the trusty VOR! New ideas are GOOD! Investigation is GOOD! Open-minded humility is GOOD. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > I can think of one situation where I'd open the canopy and egress under > controlled flight. > > Anyone remember Von Alexander? There's more reasons than just loss of > control to open your canopy. > > Edward Cole wrote: > > > > >If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7 > >tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be > >lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable > >forces. > >In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift > >struts, > >pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against > >a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit > >the aircraft. > >The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to > >go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level > >and in control of the aircraft, why jump out? > >The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be > >practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with > >an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy. > > > > > >Ed Cole > >RV6A N2169D Flying > >RV6A N648RV Finishing > > > > > > -- > Scott VanArtsdalen > Van Arts Consulting Services > 3848 McHenry Ave > Suite #155-184 > Modesto, CA 95356 > 209-986-4647 > Ps 34:4,6 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2004
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Amen to that. steve zicree wrote: > > Open-minded humility is GOOD. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com>
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 13, 2004
As I recall, our tip-up is hard enough to remove **ON THE GROUND!!** with two people working at it. I **think** the newer (within last 5-6 years??) have a hook in the mechanism that would make it very difficult to simply "jettison" in flight. There is some **upward** force for the first inch or so and I *think* the canopy tries to stabilize slightly open. To get it closed requires slowing down and/or certain maneuvers to counter the pressures. These comments are based on some actual experiences and direct comments from someone with actual experience with a tip-up canopy that was half locked in my case an no locked at all in the other case. I do not have knowledge about what happens in a spin. "Don't try this at home.". "Your mileage may vary." Stay safe! James > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of steve zicree > Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 11:44 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > I don't want to prove anyone wrong, but I'm curious about just how much > downforce is created. If it really is on the order of hundreds of pounds, > shouldn't Vans try to develop a more efficient canopy? All that force is > shoving the aircraft downward and taking away from useful baggage, fuel > capacity, etc. > > Are you also saying that this tremendous force exists while in a spin? I > really don't understand how this can be. Can you explain? > > Steve > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> > To: > Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question > > > > > > steve zicree wrote: > > > > > > I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only > > > exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to > do that. Is > the > > > downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman > can lift it, > even > > > when his/her life depends on it? > > > > > > Yes. > > > > Now......prove I'm wrong............ :-) > > > > Sam Buchanan > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: AOA stall warn etc.
Date: Nov 13, 2004
Many thanks to all you experienced folks for your general words of wisdom and especially those who were specific about yanking and banking the RV, I learned a few things about my aicraft these past few days that I will try to keep in mind when I fly it. When my airplane is ready to go and I've had my transition training I will revisit these comments for a "pre-flight breifing" from y'all to help keep me thinking about the capabilities and limitations of the airplane in that portion of the envelope. The RV obviously does NOT need an AOA for takeoff, landing or cruise flight. I know that the design is very robust and as safe as most any production aircraft out there. Dick VanG has been flying them for the last 35 years without AOA and is the ultimate testimate to that fact. However, as a person who performs safety and failure analysis for a living, I am very risk aware and somewhat risk averse (no, not risk averse enough to avoid flying airplanes, it's too much fun). As such I am always looking for ways to "design out" or "control" the hazards. AOA cannot eliminate the hazard of the stall spin accident but it can help to maintain "control" over it by informing my brain that I have something serious that needs my attention, NOW! So why do people still perish, even with these things blaring in their ears? I suspect that it is, at least in part, caused by the pilot being so overloaded that he can't handle one more distraction. Many years ago, the investigation of a serious Nuclear power plant accident (not Three Mile Island), and some other studies about why mishaps occur, uncovered an interesting phenomenon. The phenomenon the researchers discovered is:....that the average human being can cope with up to 7 distractions (all at once) before the brain begins to "melt down". People who process information serially probably can't deal with that many distractions at once. So yes, in a serious emergency it is not only possible that the horn could be blaring and you'd completly miss hearing it, but also probable. Could it happen to me too? You bet, but the technology is there so why not use every means at my disposal to help me live to fly another day? I understand the seat-of-the-pants arguments and I agree. After flying several hundred hours in the venerable C-172 I have a pretty good feel for whether they are going to keep flying or fall out of the sky, just by seat-of---MY----pants. But after listening to a rather infamous RV driver talk about yanking and banking in the pattern to bleed off airspeed, experiencing that very thing with a friend in his RV-6A and then having two friends perish in a stall spin.....started me thinking. And given that I have been in the pattern at HIO more than once (with many other airplanes) and the tower wanting me to perform some wierd shenanigans (right on short final).....I've gotten distracted, plain and simple. Fortunately familiarity with the airplane (and proficiency) probably kept me out of trouble but...it's nice to have that little extra something jabbing you in the ribs saying:"hey dummy-don't forget to fly the airplane first". Just MHO:-) Dean Psiropoulos N197DM making progress to flight. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)webkorner.com>
Subject: Control Cables
Date: Nov 13, 2004
I'm looking for a few good pictures of cable routing and cable bracket construction for my application. I have an Airflow Performance Fuel control on a forward facing sump on my IO360 RV-8. I am planning on coming straight back under the sump with the throttle and mixture, useing the threaded boss under the sump to attach a bracket. I plan on useing the A-1550 cables from ACS with bulkhead fittings at each end. Are these the right cables? I understand that the standard cable lengths are measured from tip to tip on these quadrant cables (is that right) but how much do I need to allow to put a clevis fitting and a rod end bearing on the threaded ends? Is this the usual setup? Pictures would help a lot! Thanks. Ron Schreck ronschreck(at)webkorner.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2004
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
steve zicree wrote: > > I remember well, and sadly have to agree. The circumstances that would > require and allow a succesful egress and chute deployment are very, very > narrow indeed. However, if things do come to it, it may be the ONLY way to > survive and therefore deserves thoughtful consideration. > > The tone of many of the more experienced gents on here brings to mind > another highly experienced master of machinery who didn't take the claims of > safety equipment advocates seriously and paid: Dale Earnhardt. > > When I started flying only 4 short years ago, every old timer I met said > that GPS was crap and would never take the place of the trusty VOR! New > ideas are GOOD! Investigation is GOOD! Open-minded humility is GOOD. Steve, I must speak up for the old, experienced coots on this list that may have sounded like they were expressing less than "Open-minded humility". You must keep in mind that the question of whether or not it is possible to jettison the tip-up canopy on the RV-6 has been hotly debated by RVer's for the nearly twenty years that the RV-6 has been in production. This is an old argument that has been hashed multiple times on this list and in countless hangar-flyin' sessions. What the "experienced gents" expressed was probably more of an eye-rolling impatience at having to revisit this issue *another* time rather than lack of humility. My comment of "prove me wrong" was a recognition that we all base our opinions on this subject purely on speculation since to our knowledge, nobody has ever jumped from a flying tip-up canopy RV-6. There have been instances of RV-4's losing the canopy, and there is the tragic Alexander RV-8 accident, but no known instances of that happening with an RV-6. As one who has personal experience with how difficult it can be to handle an open canopy in flight, it is my contention that wearing a parachute in a tip-up RV-6, 7, 9 is an exercise in futility. However, the ONLY way to prove otherwise is for somebody to actually jettison the canopy and successfully jump! Until that happens, all we can do is speculate on the odds of being able to actually egress from a flying tip-up RV. And that experiment will only prove the validity of that particular flight scenario. Having said this, I suspect a new builder will raise this question again in a couple of years, and it may be that you will be one of the "RV veterans" who will roll their eyes and say "not again....." and urge the newbie to read the scores of messages in the archives on this subject. Sometimes a perceived lack of humility is merely a reluctance to revisit a subject that still has no concrete answer and has been beat to death in the past. Best wishes on a successful and expeditious conclusion to your project, Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 2004
Subject: master relay failure
I pulled my RV9 out of the hangar yesterday to enjoy an unusaully nice Seattle, fall day, I hit the master switch - NOTHING. I took to cowl off and determined that the master relay was "sticking". The relay was one of teh first accessories I installed during construction and probably has 1000+ cycles on it. But it is common for such a "simple" relay to stick and fail? I could not find a comparable relay at the auto parts store so I have one on order from Van's. Kim Nicholas RV9A 15 hours. Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2004
From: Warren Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com>
Subject: Roll Your Own AOA
From what I understand angle of attack is differential pressure between the upper and lower parts of the wing or leading edge. A differential pressure gauge is plumbed to a couple of ports to determine the AOA, or a small wind vane is mounted on a probe. Either would work. I book marked this page some time ago. http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm I am a very low time pilot, building a RV-9A. It will have an AOA and a low fuel indicator at a minimum. I joined the EAA and am now president of the chapter. We have the third longest runway in the state, and we need a hanger. Yesterday we were notified that we have received our 501(c)3 status. So it is possible to build a plane, a hanger, and a AOA gauge. Warren Hurd http://ahyup.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2004
From: Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Prop cable
If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also. Jim Streit RV-9A dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote: > >Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Control Cables
Date: Nov 13, 2004
http://www.rvproject.com has many pictures of the process as I flailed around trying to figure out the easiest way to run the throttle and mixture cables to the AFP FM-200 on my IO-360-A1B6. Here's the cable bulkhead I made for the throttle control, which comes from the left side and swoops under the sump, bulkhead attaching to the little flange on #2's intake: http://www.rvproject.com/20030922.html Here's the cable bulkhead I made for the mixture control, which runs under the sump: http://www.rvproject.com/20030926.html 280 hours and counting, and I've had no problems with the cables routed this way. Many other photos of different methods I considered are also on the site. FYI, if you use the method I did, be sure to use heat shields and heat-wrap your control cables in the vicinity of the exhaust. I've heard lots of stories about cables becoming inop due to excess radiant heat being absorbed. Best of luck, )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)webkorner.com> Subject: RV-List: Control Cables > > I'm looking for a few good pictures of cable routing and cable bracket construction for my application. I have an Airflow Performance Fuel control on a forward facing sump on my IO360 RV-8. I am planning on coming straight back under the sump with the throttle and mixture, useing the threaded boss under the sump to attach a bracket. I plan on useing the A-1550 cables from ACS with bulkhead fittings at each end. Are these the right cables? I understand that the standard cable lengths are measured from tip to tip on these quadrant cables (is that right) but how much do I need to allow to put a clevis fitting and a rod end bearing on the threaded ends? Is this the usual setup? Pictures would help a lot! Thanks. > > Ron Schreck > ronschreck(at)webkorner.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2004
From: HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: AOA - when going straight up
Phil S. says there wouldn't be relative wind if your RV was going straight up. I can see that it might not amount to much, but there would be some wouldn't there? I'm not nit picking but just interested in learning. If one was going straight up in an F16 and fast enough, there would also be lift I should think. I wonder what the stick forces would be then? hal ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com>
Subject: Most important stall practice (long); not builder related
Date: Nov 13, 2004
This may be in the archives but is still important to this discussion. One maneuver you should go up and practice in our short winged wonders may be an issue with stall-spin accidents on the turn from base to final. This seems to be where a LOT of accidents happen, as previously alluded. If you are comfortable with your airplane, do them yourself. If not, which is to say not comfortable with near-spin entrance or spins (you're NOT?), get an instructor. Get some altitude as if you were going to do aerobatics (you may be!). Line up perpendicular to a road that will function as the "runway", way down there. Configure for landing: speed you use in a normal pattern from base to final, flap settings you use for landing. SO: left hand descending turn base to final on the road setting up to land (at altitude). But as you come around overshoot the center line of the "runway" so now it is drifting off to your left a little, nose pointing to the right of your "runway". Well, that's no problem, your punkin brain thinks. I'll just shove in a little LEFT rudder and push the tail around to get lined up. Here's what happens: you are in a left turn (assuming left hand pattern), descending, low airspeed. Push that left rudder and suddenly the right wing speeds up and the left wing slows down and STALLS, and quicker than suddenly you are pointed left wing WAY down at Mother Earth, in a near-spin entry. What happens: if your AOA is on the right wing, maybe no warning; if your (erk) stall warning device is on the right wing, maybe no beep. But you don't have time to hear/look at that anyway because you have to react NOW and do what is totally against your normal thought process and PUSH FORWARD, toward aforementioned Mother and either let go of the left rudder (should be enough to correct) or push in a little/bunch of RIGHT rudder to get the left wing going the same speed as the right. IN AN INSTANT, without regard to airspeed, AOA, stall warning: i.e. head OUTSIDE of the airplane where is should be. Not looking at instruments or listening for the (erk) stall horn. And without overcorrecting and stalling the right wing. Lots to think about/do in a VERY short amount of time to avoid getting dirt in the cockpit. Yikes. Do this a bunch of times. Do it from the left and right. STALL that wing and DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO to correct. Don't just get close; STALL THE LOW/SLOW WING. It's kind of freaky, even at altitude. I think that practicing this particular maneuver would help prevent many of the base to final problems. Can you still get in trouble knowing this? Yes. Having had this practice establishing that visual and means of recovery in my pea brain, I am VERY aware of what my feet are doing in the pattern, especially in turns. They are usually almost off the rudders by reflex, putting in small corrections when necessary. Practice, practice, practice. Since this seems to be where stall-spins occur (getting into IMC and unable to recover in aerobatics some others, perhaps), this MAY be the most useful place to recognize entrance to spins. IMHO, only, of course. Agree: try it; don't agree: disregard as blabber. Michael RV-4 N232 Suzie Q Open canopy NOT an option; on the check list. AOA and stall warning devices......nah; don't want to get into that one. Almost did but deleted it: blabber. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Date: Nov 13, 2004
I must be getting weak- I'm finding it harder that ever to resist diving in to some of these debates! Having been under canopy a couple hundred times, and upside down rather a few more, I take all this as much more than an academic exercise and am searching for some really workable answers.


November 06, 2004 - November 13, 2004

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