RV-Archive.digest.vol-qa
November 06, 2004 - November 13, 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
I don't think stainless Is magnetic.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of steve zicree
Subject: RV-List:
Anyone know whether my gear leg fairing hinges are stainless? They're very
thin material and sure do look like stainless, but I'm not sure. Only reason
I care is I'd love to have one less thing to prime.
Steve Zicree
RV4, wearing pants!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dan Brown <dan(at)familybrown.org> |
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Hash: SHA1
Allen Fulmer wrote:
| I don't think stainless Is magnetic.
Depends on the alloy. Some alloys of stainless are magnetic, others
are not. A quick google search found this page:
http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1140
...which seems to indicate that the the 300-series alloys are not
magnetic, but others are.
- --
Dan Brown, KE6MKS, dan(at)familybrown.org
"Since all the world is but a story, it were well for thee to buy the
more enduring story rather than the story that is less enduring."
~ -- The Judgment of St. Colum Cille
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________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
If they are a 300 series stainless, an easy way to tell is with a very
power full magnet like out of a dead hard drive or speaker. See how the
material sticks to it, if you can just barely feel the magnet pulling on
it then it is a 300 series stainless, if it sticks really hard it is
either 440 stainless or some other not stainless alloy, if it doesn't
pull at all it's probably a nonferrous material.
Chris W
Not getting the gifts you want? The Wish Zone can help.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
Subject: | Re: Special N-Number reservation |
This is going to vary quite a bit from state to state. I waited till
the end to register, and when the tax man came a'calling (which only
took a couple of weeks) I sent the receipts showing what I spent on the
project and a check for the tax. That made them happy, no penalties or
interest. Of course, I may have underestimated the amount I spent just
a wee bit. This is in Wisconsin, which is pretty much a tax hell. YMMV
state to state, talk to some other builders from your state.
Jeff Point
]RV-6
Milwaukee WI
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>Triggering the tax man early in the project is a *good* thing! If you
>wait until the plane is nearly complete before registering (and having
>the FAA inform your state revenuers there is a rich aircraft owner in
>their midst), and you have not paid any sales taxes on airframe, engine,
>or components, you will incur penalties and interest for late payment of
>taxes.
>
>However, if you contact your state's tax offices early in the project,
>you can pay sales tax as you go and avoid the penalties and interest.
>This can be done whether registration has occurred or not.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>http://thervjournal.com
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | Screwy fuel flow readings |
If you have a multimeter check the signal on the white wire from the sensor.
The signal with no flow should be a steady voltage, or zero volts. Then
click meter to frequency measurement, should be 0Hz. Turn pump on, now see
if you still have 0Hz. If not it could be a bad sensor. Also check that the
sensor has the 12V power and ground signals.
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Screwy fuel flow readings
Listers, especially those with EIS engine monitors:
I'm almost ready for my first flight but have run into a glitch with my GRT
EIS fuel flow measurement system that has me temporarily stumped. I get a
normal zero flow indication with EIS power on (engine off) but it jumps to a
steady state of about 4.5 GPH as soon as I turn on the boost pump. There is
no
fuel flowing at that point. When I start the engine the indication jumps to
upwards of 19 GPH at idle and as high as 38 GPH at 2000 RPM. This with an
0-360
BTW. For those of you who are EIS users, the correct scale factor of 200
has
been entered into the EIS.
My boost pump is separated from the flow sender by at least 30 inches of
tubing and the last 12 inches before the sender is a long smooth curve. I
have
checked all connections, wiring, grounds, etc., and can find nothing wrong
there. Greg at GRT is on vacation but Sandy is sending me a loaner sending
unit to
try. In the meantime if anyone has had a similar experience or has any
ideas
on this I'd sure appreciate hearing from them.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final details
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)allstream.net> |
Subject: | Heat muff for carburated engines only |
I just received my heat muff from
Van's
The instructions say "for carburated engines only"
Since my engine will be fuel injection I wonder why they have
this restriction?
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman(at)allstream.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
Has anybody used one of these starters? I am looking to buy a starter in the
near future and ran across this one. Hope the link works, if not, the item #
is 4501640546.
Scott
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4501640546&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: Screwy fuel flow readings |
Thanks Jeff. I'll try it with the boost pump off.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, final details
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
I've never seen this type but I have a Prestolite off of an O-320 Like New
for sale.
John
John(at)fureychrysler.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Subject: | Prop Gov bracket |
I am installing a MT prop governor using the VA-183 cable bracket that Vans
recommends but unless I'm missing something this bracket will not work. It
Bolts on to the large bolts at the base of the Gov. Any help would be
appreciated.
John
RV6A O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Subject: | Prop Gov bracket |
I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an elongated hole in
the bracket and it attatched to the small screws on the Gov. Did I get a
bracket for a different Gov by mistake or does the RV7 use a different one
than a 6?? Any pictures out there?
Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: RMI - MicroMonitor |
That's good info. Why did you DNA it? I have MicroMonitor too. I put
it together and it's been working great. I'm going to un-DNA it if you
don't mind.
Tom Gummo wrote:
>
>Long Report on the problem, support from the factory, and the repair of The Rocky
Mountain Instrument - MicroMonitor.
>
>
>During the building process, I had to decide which engine monitor I wanted yet
could afford to install in my plane. Remember, this was before the latest several
monitors became available. Anyway, RMI unit was chosen. I have a friend
who is Electrical Engineer and he said he said it would be fun to build the
unit so the kit was ordered. During the assembly process, he reported that it
was the best electronic kit he had ever worked on. During installation, two
sensors didn't appear to work properly and the company quickly sent out replaces
after asking if we were sure that they were installed properly. Of course,
we said we were sure. After the sensors arrived, it was found the we had wired
them improperly (the company didn't say I told you so but were happy to learn
that we had solved the problem.
>
>
>For the next two years, the unit worked perfectly and just as advertised. Then
the unit started to have problems. It would reset itself, lock up, and or just
display incorrect data. An email to RMI and they sent a troubleshooting manual
the next day. Again with the help of the EE, we started to find and fix
the problem. As we had not changed anything, it had to be in the "box" but test
after test showed the box was working correctly. Finally, we were able to
determine that three sensors that were acting up all used a 10 volt input. After
checking each sensor, we found that the connectors for the oil temperature
were no longer protected by shrink-wrap and was shorting out when the engine
was running. How does shrink-wrap disappear? I was sure that we never did any
maintenance on the sensor. Then I remember that we had removed the engine
and it turns out the over-haulers most likely removed the oil temperature probe.
As I had hardwired it, they had to cut the wires !
>and it was up to us to reconnect everything. (As a side note, when Jack Starn
AKA KABONG starting helping me over five years ago, I told him every good thing
I would credit for and he would have to accept all the blame for all the mistakes.)
Therefore, Jack didn't do a good job of putting everything back together.
>
>
>Good - The RMI unit works great. The company support is excellent. Any problems
were user generated.
>
>
>Bad - Jack. :-)
>
>
>Tom Gummo
>Apple Valley, CA
>Harmon Rocket-II
>
>
>http://mysite.verizon.net/t.gummo/index.html
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Subject: | Re: Prop Gov bracket |
http://www.rvproject.com/20030722.html has some photos of my Jihostroj
(mistakenly called MT) governor and the bracket that came with the FWF kit
from Van's. The photos were taken while I was still messing with prop cable
routing.
The one with an elongated hole sounds like the older style McCauley governor
bracket. Believe that's VA-153, but I'm not positive.
As you mentioned in your previous email, for a Jihostroj governor and
VA-183, the bracket attaches to the studs where the gov'r mounts.
If it's not intuitive on your setup, maybe you could post some photos?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket
>
> I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an elongated hole
in
> the bracket and it attatched to the small screws on the Gov. Did I get a
> bracket for a different Gov by mistake or does the RV7 use a different one
> than a 6?? Any pictures out there?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Subject: | Prop Gov bracket |
Thanks for the pics. Looks just like my bracket and you seem to have made it
fit. It looked to me like it would hit the oil filter or oil line going down
to the cooler but I will take a harder look.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Subject: | Re: Prop Gov bracket |
Yeah, the hose to the oil cooler was an issue. I had to use a hose with a
45-degree elbow end on it, and it worked out A-OK. Photos here:
http://www.rvproject.com/20031103.html
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket
>
> Thanks for the pics. Looks just like my bracket and you seem to have made
it
> fit. It looked to me like it would hit the oil filter or oil line going
down
> to the cooler but I will take a harder look.
>
> John
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Subject: | Prop Gov bracket |
Here is a pic of my bracket on my O-360 with Woodward governor.
http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=13&pos=35
I had to elongate, ever so slightly, the mounting holes to get it to fit the
aft end of the governor.
Don't know if that helps or not...
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8, 19.7 Hrs.
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: John Furey [mailto:john(at)fureychrysler.com]
> Sent: Saturday, November 06, 2004 9:29 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop Gov bracket
>
>
> I saw a bracket on an RV7 that had the cable go through an
> elongated hole in the bracket and it attatched to the small
> screws on the Gov. Did I get a bracket for a different Gov by
> mistake or does the RV7 use a different one than a 6?? Any
> pictures out there?
>
> Thanks,
> John
>
>
> ========
> ========
> Matronics Forums.
> ========
> ========
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now.
I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's
a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer,
I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was
wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure
gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges.
Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just
being paranoid?
Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I
could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how
much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Nutplate jigs |
Mickey,
For the wingtip nutplates, I glassed them in. Just drill the holes for
clecos, then enlarge them for 6-32 screws, and screw in the nutplates with short
screws, or with lots of nuts, washers, etc., to hold them on to the tips (tips
off the wings at this point). First rough up the inside of the wing tips with
60 grit paper. Now use 2 layers of fiberglass about 3/4 to 1 inch wide
running the length (cord) of the tip. You can do them all at once, no drilling
and
no rivets. Just spread the weave of the glass where it goes over the
nutplates as you lay the wet glass strips down. The nutplates make a good centering
pilot for hand countersinking for the dimpled skins. A good place to get a
taste of epoxy! Nothing critical about it, it'll never be seen.
This also worked for the nutplates that hold the tip lens in place, no rivets
here either.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July)
In a message dated 11/6/04 11:33:21 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes:
>
>
> Hi Charlie,
>
> Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working
> on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the
> baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips.
>
> Mickey
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
In a message dated 11/7/04 10:26:40 AM US Eastern Standard Time,
sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes:
>
> Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I
> could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how
> much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance.
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
>
>
>
Tom,
How will this tell you how effective the oil cooler is? If you measure 2
degrees of drop across the cooler, it may be lowering the oil temperature by 20
degrees, because the oil entering the cooler has already been cooled.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
In a message dated 11/7/2004 7:26:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,
sarg314(at)earthlink.net writes:
I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now.
I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's
a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer,
I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was
wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil pressure
gauge and oil temperature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges.
Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just
being paranoid?
======================================
IMO not worth the effort. The VM1000 system is a very well designed and
time tested appliance. The only problems of which I am aware are related to the
fuel flow sender and a memory/battery module, and that was due to infant
mortality. Aside from that, the unit works very well and will likely give many
thousands of hours of good service. I would go with the same unit today
except for the fact that they now have merged with JPI, with whom I still have
a
beef.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
I ordered the double function pressure switch from vans and therefore
have a backup which is a low pressure warning. I like it.
On Nov 7, 2004, at 8:24 AM, thomas a. sargent wrote:
>
>
> I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now.
> I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However,
> that's
> a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer
> programmer,
> I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was
> wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure
> gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges.
>
> Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just
> being paranoid?
>
> Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I
> could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how
> much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance.
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Subject: | backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
Hi Tom,
Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT
use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're
a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of
unreliable operating systems. The OS's that are in use in today's avionics
have literally MILLIONS of hours of flight time on them. You won't find a
windows operating system controlling the 100% digital Airbus's or Boeing
777's. Take a simple analogy. Unix vs. Windows. I wouldn't even bother
with the extra oil stuff. If you're concerned about that, then where do you
stop?? Backup Volts/Amps, 2nd RPM, 2nd MP, 2nd Fuel, 2nd CHT,....you get my
point.
You either trust the digital stuff or you don't. If you don't trust it,
don't use it. But if you do, you need to trust it. There are a LOT of
VM-1000's flying, and they even are getting the thing certified. The engine
monitors are far from "Bleeding Edge" technology regarding the software/OS
side.
Anyway, not meant as a flame, just a point that we ought not compare the
software/OS's of avionics with our home computers because it's not even a
close or similar comparision (with the exception of a "few" home grown/lower
quality EFIs systems out there).
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a.
sargent
Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now.
I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's
a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer,
I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was
wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure
gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges.
Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just
being paranoid?
Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I
could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how
much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Trampas" <tstern(at)nc.rr.com> |
Subject: | backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
When comparing engine monitors compare them to other "embedded" devices. For
example when was the last time you had to reboot your VCR? How about your
car? Think about it, just about everything has a computer in it now.
Microwave, Refrigerator, thermostats, Heat Pumps, Stove, TV, calculator,
etc, yet everyone compares electronic engine devices to PCs, and 80's car
computers.
I have heard rumors that some of newer EFIS systems are using DOS/Windows
CE. If you are worried than ask!
Regards,
Trampas
www.sterntech.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stein Bruch
Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
Hi Tom,
Here's the deal. The Engine monitors, EFIS's, etc.. on the market DO NOT
use a microsoft/DOS operating system which is prone to failures. If you're
a programmer, you're most likely working in a Microsoft/windows world of
unreliable operating systems. The OS's that are in use in today's avionics
have literally MILLIONS of hours of flight time on them. You won't find a
windows operating system controlling the 100% digital Airbus's or Boeing
777's. Take a simple analogy. Unix vs. Windows. I wouldn't even bother
with the extra oil stuff. If you're concerned about that, then where do you
stop?? Backup Volts/Amps, 2nd RPM, 2nd MP, 2nd Fuel, 2nd CHT,....you get my
point.
You either trust the digital stuff or you don't. If you don't trust it,
don't use it. But if you do, you need to trust it. There are a LOT of
VM-1000's flying, and they even are getting the thing certified. The engine
monitors are far from "Bleeding Edge" technology regarding the software/OS
side.
Anyway, not meant as a flame, just a point that we ought not compare the
software/OS's of avionics with our home computers because it's not even a
close or similar comparision (with the exception of a "few" home grown/lower
quality EFIs systems out there).
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
RV6's, Minneapolis.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of thomas a.
sargent
Subject: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
I am thinking about firewall penetrations and engine hook-up right now.
I have a VM1000 engine monitor which will be installed. However, that's
a complex device and has a computer in it. Being a computer programmer,
I expect the thing to fail on me at the worst possible moment, so I was
wondering about the advisability of installing a second oil presure
gauge and oil temprature gauge. I would use cheap electrical gauges.
Has any one bothered to do this? Is it worth the effort or am I just
being paranoid?
Redundant oil info might be interesting during normal operation. I
could put the temp. gauge at the output of the oil cooler and see how
much effect the oil cooler is having at any given moment, for instance.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
Subject: | Re: Nutplate jigs |
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>Hi Charlie,
>
>Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working
>on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the
>baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips.
>
>Mickey
>
>
>
>>I thought about telling Mickey to do a kit upgrade instead of a tool
>>upgrade. My -7 tail & wings (bought in Apr. last year) have had all the
>>nutplate areas prepunched.
>>
>>
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
I'm still building the wings so I haven't had to deal with fitting wing
roots yet. I doubt that they are prepunched there because that will by a
custom fitted area.
The factory told me that the fuse structure is prepunched for the floor
nutplates.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: Nutplate jigs |
I sat down and poured another cup of coffee from my thermos which I use to keep
it from boiling away. It hissed when I poured it into my cup it was so hot in
Stockton (SCK) that day.
Maybe the heat also was doing something to my brain but I sat and counted just
how many steps it takes to install a platenute. I came up with 21, using the
jig. Makes me realize why so many machines are built with sheet metal screws.
Drill holes, slap in screws.
Jigs like this are used extensively in factory production to increase production
quantity and quality at the same time. Any operation that is being done repetitively
should be considered for application of either a jig or a fixture.
A jig holds or guides the tool. A fixture holds or guides the workpiece. What
is really needed is a three chuck (multi-spindle) drill. Check this one out
http://www.commandermultidrill.com/catalog/appl/multi1.pdf
This company has small 2 spindle drills and many others. I want one! I am sure
I can find a need for drilling 24 holes at once.
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Nutplate jigs |
>Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
> >Hi Charlie,
> >
> >Is this true even on the wing roots? That's what I'm working
> >on right now. Also, I put nutplates in the floors, and the
> >baggage area, and there are a lot of them! Next will be wingtips.
> >
> >Mickey
> >
> >
> >
> >>I thought about telling Mickey to do a kit upgrade instead of a tool
> >>upgrade. My -7 tail & wings (bought in Apr. last year) have had all the
> >>nutplate areas prepunched.
> >>
> >>
> >
> >--
> >Mickey Coggins
> >http://www.rv8.ch/
> >#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
> >
>
>I'm still building the wings so I haven't had to deal with fitting wing
>roots yet. I doubt that they are prepunched there because that will by a
>custom fitted area.
>
>The factory told me that the fuse structure is prepunched for the floor
>nutplates.
>
>Charlie
Listers,
Are the newer 8 floors pre-punched for nutplates? Mine 80372 wasn't. It
simply had pilot holes for the screws in the floor skins. All underlying
structure was undrilled. To those who are not yet to the fuselage stage,
Vans only uses #8 screws on the most forward cockpit floor skins. This
entails the area under the pilot's seat and the foot wells for the GIB
(which are on either side of the pilot's seat).
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
Subject: | Countersinks on Wing Spar... |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the fuel tank.
My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done,
the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly round, in fact
some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and
how do you prevent it?
- Matt
www.rv7a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Steve Waltner <swaltner(at)mac.com> |
Subject: | Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... |
On Nov 7, 2004, at 3:55 PM, Matt Johnson wrote:
>
> I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the
> fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done,
> the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly
> round, in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a
> problem? and
> how do you prevent it?
>
> - Matt
> www.rv7a.com
I ran into the same issue and made a post about it to the RV-8 Yahoo
group last year around Christmas time. Hopefully this repost will
help...
=============
I ran into the same issue with poor countersunk holes when trying to
follow Van's instructions. I found the process outlined on Dan
Checkoway's web site much easier.
http://www.rvproject.com/20020503.html
I ran a bit through each of the holes to get them up to the "correct"
size, then took the scrap bar stock from what formed the W-726 tie-down
spacers and clamped that to the back side of the flange. I used a drill
bit to get the two holes alligned, then I was able to use the
countersink bit and drill down to the full size. With the bar stock
clamped to the back side of the flange, the CS bit didn't wander around
as the hole was enlarged. I've got a couple picture posted at:
http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-1.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-2.jpg
http://homepage.mac.com/swaltner/flying/tank-cs-3.jpg
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Subject: | Prop Gov bracket |
Thanks for the picture. You have the "other" bracket that I saw. That is not
the one Vans now sells for the MT but it may be what I end up with.
Thanks,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com> |
Subject: | Re: Special N-Number reservation |
Listers,
I'd like to add my experience regarding N-number
reservation. Some years back I built a Kitfox and
applied for the special N-number reservation when
construction was nearly completed.
FAA notified the State of MN and they promptly assessed
me use tax (sales tax) on the kit, engine, and propeller. This
was because I had not paid sales tax when I bought these
components from the SkyStar plant in Idaho. Furthermore
they assessed me a penalty for late payment of these
taxes. I was able to plead my way out of the penalty
but the use tax was still applied.
Now that I'm building an RV-9A, I made an early N-number
reservation and have been paying the use tax as I go
on the empennage, wing, fuselage, and finishing kits. This
spreads the use tax and avoids late payment assessments
when I'm finally done.
I've noted that the yearly MN sticker fee is declining. While the
plane is designated "under construction" the fee is waived.
Apparently the State of MN is showing a reduced value for
the air frame each year it is under construction -- similar to
the reduced assessment in auto license plates as the car
gets older...
Either way the State gets its way.
Joe Connell, RV-9A, N95JJ, #90216, Instrument Panel.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message |
from valid local sender)
Don't know if it will make a difference in your situation, but I've found
that the single flute countersinks do a much nicer job than the multi-fluted
type.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com>
Subject: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message from
valid local sender)
>
> I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for the
fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done,
> the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly round,
in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and
> how do you prevent it?
>
> - Matt
> www.rv7a.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mark Taylor" <mtaylo17(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Instrument Panel Etching |
Listers,
I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your panel,
paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat
away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling.
I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost, but
if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me
know.
Thanks a bunch.
Mark.
http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
Subject: | Instrument Panel Etching |
Try Wayne at www.engravers.net
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Taylor
Subject: RV-List: Instrument Panel Etching
Listers,
I've seen this a few times at the various shows, where they take your
panel,
paint it with a base coat, then a top coat, then laser etch the top coat
away revealing the base coat colour underneath for all the labelling.
I can't remember who does this, or any idea of how much it would cost,
but
if anyone can remember the company name, or has any info, please let me
know.
Thanks a bunch.
Mark.
http://home.comcast.net/~mtaylo17/RV7/
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
Subject: | Celebrate Freedom/Tuskegee Airmen Event |
Just a quick note to all of the TeamRV, Falcon Flight and OVRV members that
flew in from Georgia,Texas and Ohio for this special event ...
Thank you.
You really helped us do something special.
And you made me proud on so many different levels. Clearly because of what
happened for the Airmen but in a way you probably don't realize, proud to be
part of your group as well. Just think of the many metaphors.
James E. Clark
Celebrate Freedom Foundation Board member
Chairman, 60th Anniversary Reunion of Tuskegee Airmen Event.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Redundant engine gauges |
This is in response to the poster who was thinking of installing redundant
oil temp and pressure gauges. I wouldn't do it. If you need to have a set
of traditional gauges because you don't trust the computerized device, then
you shouldn't bother with the $3500 computerized device in the first place.
Re stability of windows. Windows can be almost perfectly stable when it
exists within a "vacume". I.E. all inputs are of known values, there are
no network or peripheral connections, etc.
An example of this is the Avidyne (CERTIFICATED) displays. As recently as 2
years ago, they ran on a stub (software term for a version of code that
does not include all drivers) of Windows NT 4.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Donald Mei" <don_mei(at)hotmail.com> |
After I was signed off to fly my '4, my instructor asked for a gentlemans
agreement that I not carry passengers until I had 10 more hours of time
under my belt.
I concured that it made sense. On one of my first solo trips, I landed at
New Haven. I grabbed a coffee and taxied out for departure. I pushed the
throttle in and the tail seemed to come up much faster than usual. I
remember thinking that it was unusual, but was busy flying the plane and
resolved I'd think about it later.
The the plane popped off the runway with what appeared to be little or no
angle of attack. Hmmm.
As I left the ground, I pushed the nose over expecting the usual RV
acceleration through 120 mph during an easy cruise climb. Hmm. I wasn't
accelerating. So I looked around and noticed that my flaps were FULL down.
Total time from when I pushed the throttle in to when I retracted the flaps
was about 15 seconds. Airspeed never got over 90 mph. It was very very
obvious that something was not right.
It now seems inconceivable that someone could fly around with full flaps and
not notice the airplane SHOUTING at them is, if not wrong, then at least
very different. But thats not fair. To a new RV pilot, I'd bet an RV with
full flaps accelerates and climbs about as well as most spam cans. When I
realized my flaps were fully down, I was still climbing at 700 fpm. Better
than the 152 I had done my primary training in could do on a good day.
With that said, RETRACT FLAPS is now on my engine start checklist. If I
want them down for a short field takeoff, then I lower them again after my
runup.
Also, just prior to taking the runway, I have a flow that I use. I start at
the top right of the instrument panel and work my way down the left
bulkhead. It includes a check for:
Oil pressure
fuel pressure
boost pump
flap position
mixture
pitch trim
Don
"All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create
the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message |
from valid local sender)
Steve & Listers,
I purchased an entire set of the single flute countersinks from Avery Tools on
the advice of folks on the RV List. For use with a high speed pneumatic drill,
they do offer an advantage. However they also have a down side. The single hole
tends to get clogged up with cutting chips. Constantly clearing out the chips
slows down progress noticibly.
I've found that using the standard 3 flute countersinks using a slower speed electric
drill works best. The standard countersinks are also cheaper to purchase.
Charlie Kuss
>
> From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
> Date: 2004/11/07 Sun PM 10:03:18 EST
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message
from valid local sender)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Flap overspeed. |
One of the exercises that Mike Seager put me through during RV
transition training was taking off with the flaps down. At least in the
RV-6 I couldn't tell the difference. But that was with only .3 hours of
RV flight time. I'd sure know now. I've got to agree with the
others... checklists!
Donald Mei wrote:
>
>After I was signed off to fly my '4, my instructor asked for a gentlemans
>agreement that I not carry passengers until I had 10 more hours of time
>under my belt.
>
>I concured that it made sense. On one of my first solo trips, I landed at
>New Haven. I grabbed a coffee and taxied out for departure. I pushed the
>throttle in and the tail seemed to come up much faster than usual. I
>remember thinking that it was unusual, but was busy flying the plane and
>resolved I'd think about it later.
>
>The the plane popped off the runway with what appeared to be little or no
>angle of attack. Hmmm.
>
>As I left the ground, I pushed the nose over expecting the usual RV
>acceleration through 120 mph during an easy cruise climb. Hmm. I wasn't
>accelerating. So I looked around and noticed that my flaps were FULL down.
>
>Total time from when I pushed the throttle in to when I retracted the flaps
>was about 15 seconds. Airspeed never got over 90 mph. It was very very
>obvious that something was not right.
>
>It now seems inconceivable that someone could fly around with full flaps and
>not notice the airplane SHOUTING at them is, if not wrong, then at least
>very different. But thats not fair. To a new RV pilot, I'd bet an RV with
>full flaps accelerates and climbs about as well as most spam cans. When I
>realized my flaps were fully down, I was still climbing at 700 fpm. Better
>than the 152 I had done my primary training in could do on a good day.
>
>With that said, RETRACT FLAPS is now on my engine start checklist. If I
>want them down for a short field takeoff, then I lower them again after my
>runup.
>
>Also, just prior to taking the runway, I have a flow that I use. I start at
>the top right of the instrument panel and work my way down the left
>bulkhead. It includes a check for:
>
>Oil pressure
>fuel pressure
>boost pump
>flap position
>mixture
>pitch trim
>
>Don
>
>
>"All of us need to be reminded that the federal government did not create
>the states; the states created the federal government!"---Ronald Reagan
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Doug Cook" <Dugcook(at)cox.net> |
Try countersinking with a cordless screwdriver. Get the hex adapter and countersink
from Avery - Best tool I've used. The slow speed of the cordless screwdriver
gives excellent control for countersinking.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Subject: | QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
Hi,
What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
solvent to use?
Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
Many thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
Find out which wash primer it is. Some require that a top coat is applied
with in 8 hrs of application.
>
>Hi,
>
>What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
>a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
>big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
>solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
>the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
>solvent to use?
>
>Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
>
>Many thanks,
>Mickey
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message |
from valid local sender)
True. I sprayed the little guys with PAM and it helps with this problem.
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed:
message from valid local sender)
>
> Steve & Listers,
> I purchased an entire set of the single flute countersinks from Avery
Tools on the advice of folks on the RV List. For use with a high speed
pneumatic drill, they do offer an advantage. However they also have a down
side. The single hole tends to get clogged up with cutting chips. Constantly
clearing out the chips slows down progress noticibly.
> I've found that using the standard 3 flute countersinks using a slower
speed electric drill works best. The standard countersinks are also cheaper
to purchase.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
> >
> > From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
> > Date: 2004/11/07 Sun PM 10:03:18 EST
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not
processed: message from valid local sender)
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Grand Rapids EFIS : Warning, long babble |
From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
This should have appeared last week, but somehow my address book didn't
get it to the RV list.
Vince ... my replies marked with *****
Vince,
I'm starting to warm up to the idea of the GRT EFIS & EIS combo. It's a
lot of eggs in one basket should something fail in flight (and at work
it's not uncommon for our flight rated MFDs to degrade/fail in the labs)
*****I can't speak for reliability with only 5+ hours but so far, mine
works perfectly.
and personally I have this fear about the plane being broken into for
easy to steal higher priced avionics. This seems a tempting target. Oh
well.
*****I can say that any moron who is dumb enough to try to steal one
should be shot for being a moron. I say this because the unit could be
easily traced (small market) and because there is so much stuff behind
the panel to remove that it would be nigh impossible to get it out in
one piece. Also the magnetometer is in the wing. I'm sure there are
folks out there who would buy an unboxed unit with cut wires hanging
off, no documentation, and no accessories but SHEESH... Well, shoot them
too.
OK, so it's the best idea since sliced bread. But what are the current
annoyances with it? ******It needs to interface with a DVD player, an
the most important one. INFLIGHT WX WOULD ABSOLUTEY RULE!
Any false alarms generated like typical startup conditions before ideal
tolerances are obtainable? ****No. The oil pressure and fuel pressure
give an alarm, but they go away as soon as you get things going. You
want them to alarm when the engine isn't running in order to check the
system and sensors.
I purposely did NOT use the audible alarm function. The blinking panel
light and onscreen warnings are quite enough, particularly during the
first few flights when you are tweaking limits. I'd wager that if the
audible warnings were on, you'd take your headset off for the first 5
hours... and that's not good. I might hook up the audible warning buzzer
later, but probably not.
Do you use the altitude encoder to your TX? ****Yes
They show no pictures of anything but main displays. Do you have any
pictures of the setup menus? ****No, but they are quite easy and
straightforward on the EFIS. The EIS requires you to read the manual
VERY closely.... but it's not a big deal after you've seen it.
For example, a common action would be to setup barometric pressure.
****The baro knob is active on the PFD of the EFIS. All you do is turn
it. No different than having an ordinary altimeter.
How many steps and what buttons/knob combinations get you there. I hope
it's not all push button for this. ****No problems at all.
How accurate is the heading and what were the considerations they have
about mounting it near a wing tip strobe power pack? How involved in
calibrating it and the rest of the sensors? ****The heading seems right
on to me right out of the box. I have mine mounted near the strobe head
and haven't noticed any ill effect.
Calibrating the EIS sensors for CHT, EGT, oil pressure, fuel pressure
requires little or no work. The fuel flow and fuel level sensors have a
calibration instruction page. The fuel level is easy enough. The fuel
flow requires burning a few tanks of gas to validate. I'm burning the
gas as fast as the wx will allow!
I have float type fuel senders - any issue there? No. Any other
installation nice to knows along those kind of lines? ***Not that I can
think of.
I want to use the MFD as the ammeter for the whole plane. Did you and if
so what did it take to make that happen? ****Yes. I bought their ammeter
thingy. Hall effect sensor, IIRC. It is a coil that you simply run the
alternator wire through. Mine monitors the alternator wire just before
the main buss, IIRC.
The GPS page is sparce and more Software is promised in the future. What
can it do now and what's the latest on when they will updgrade it? ****I
haven't had time to fully explore the GPS pages yet, but they're very
nice. I bought a new Lowrance 1000 unit so I'd have a backup if the EFIS
ever fried. It's not really necessary. I could have (maybe should have?)
bought a CHEAP $100 GPS to drive the EFIS map and it would have been
just fine.
More specifically, the EFIS map shows airports, extended centerlines,
obstacles, soon to have terrain IIRC, and who knows what else? I'm still
exploring it.
What are the limitations and usefullness of the G-meter readings?
****You simply turn in on in the EFIS setup menu and it pops up in the
lower left of the screen. It's fun to watch it. 2 Gs are all I've pulled
so far.... still getting engine squawks and other items fixed... acro to
come later.
I haven't found any picture of it on their display. Is it actually
usable during acro and does it keep the max high/low or just show
instanteaous in small font? ****Um, I'm not sure about the min max
memory but I'll bet that it does.
I see no notice about an online user's manual other than one is going to
be out late but that was a while ago. Do you have a soft copy of one you
could send? ****I have a preliminary manual, but I'd prefer not to send
it out. GRT is supposed to have a real manual out soon. Mine has no
screen shots and has a few blank spots in it still.
Thanks!
Lucky Macy
*****FWIW, my backups for the EFIS are an LRI angle of attack device,
which is very nice, BTW, a wet compass, a Navaid w/skidball, and the
Lowrance GPS, which will run fine on the internal battery if the main
battery pukes. I don't intend to fly IFR with this but probably could if
I wanted to, but this is a sportplane!
> No, they don't pay me to say this stuff....but they should!!!
>
> Vince Frazier
> F-1H Rocket, N540VF
> http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html
<http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/page1.html>
________________________________
From: chris macy [mailto:luckymacy(at)comcast.net]
Subject: GRT efis and panel paint: Warning, long babble
Vince,
You are a so right about the GRT EFIS!
I read up a bunch on the GRT and called them up afterwards yesterday.
In short, I was impressed and ordered it. The more I thought about how
the relatively low cost systems like this probably calculate their pitch
and heading info I think theirs is the safest if you were actually
depending your life upon it with respect to accuracy of displayed info.
Their web site and BMTs and other web sites are there for others to
study and ask the companies questions. Here's a starter.
http://www.grtavionics.com/compare.htm
Can you tell me more specifically how responsive & accurate the wind
speed and direction info is as far as you can tell? Have you ever seen
the wind sock shift on way and the graphics not change or lag a lot?
***** not that I can tell
One of the things we talked about was my G-meter idea and Todd seemed to
really like it. Here's what he wrote back to me after the conversation
"We have no problem adding features like this. We are going to add
optional voice indication of the G meter and tone. We will be working
on a separate page for Acro. We welcome any suggestions you may have."
Love these guys already.
They sent me a few attachments including a full size screen shot showing
the G meter stuff. It's great. I'll attach it. It already shows max
high/low and current.
The thing that really sold me was that 10 page impressions of usage
http://www.grtavionics.com/Impressions.htm
Have you ever tried that HITS down to the runway as the one usage write
up did? Looked cool and a real potential last resort life saver if one
was in a legit holy you know what weather bind, engine out, what have
you. ***** I haven't figured out the HITS yet. I've only got 6.1 hours
on the plane and other items have been more important.
As an avionics test guy for Boeing by profession myself, I can relate to
the Boeing guy doing the design. I think it would be an awesome toy for
a Boeing pilot by trade to stick on of these in his plane. The design is
so open ended and has so much growth potential that the new tricks like
weather and traffic and textured terrain will continue to roll out for
years to come and they insist the SW will continue to be free. Wow.
For my personal taste, the immediate Dynon shortcomings it overcomes is
that it's not all push buttons and the display is the "right" size and
width for my RV8 and getting older eyes. And it's engine monitor page
really blows me away. I'm an idiot for not looking at it sooner. Stuff
like the time history and the percent power displayed are just so cool.
I feel dumb now for whacking their GPS page. I know when it's finished
it will look as good if not better than anything else in the price
range. But it's actually very good right now. You just have to read
the details on what it does and reacts to where you are flying. The
internal GPS is now an option and so the new SW has mission planning
built in. It's not Star Wars yet but it's functional and enough to
accompany the new HW.
The initial cost isn't cheap but the sum of what it does now and what it
will further grow to do in the future makes it a bargain and nothing
else touches it for under $8K. I'm so glad I'm building slow ;-) Gave
me time to discover these guys.
Vince you are a genius! ;-) Thanks a bunch for directing me towards
them. ********GENIUS? Please tell my wife.
BTW, what brand of panel paint did you use on the panel? It looks
textured and flat. ******** Krylon Wrinkle paint.
Looking forward to comparing notes with you in the future on it.
******* me too.
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
Subject: | Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel.
Randy Lervold
> Hi,
>
> What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
> a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
> big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
> solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
> the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
> solvent to use?
>
> Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
>
> Many thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
Subject: | Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
I found that by using an electric drill the slow speed prevented the chipping on
the inside diameter. I cleaned up my previous ones with a
dremel and smooth bit. But all new holes are being done with an electric drill
and they are coming out nice with no chipping.
- Matt Johnson
www.rv7a.com
-----Original Message-----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Date: Sun, 7 Nov 2004 19:03:18 -0800
Subject: Re: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message
from valid local sender)
>
> Don't know if it will make a difference in your situation, but I've
> found
> that the single flute countersinks do a much nicer job than the
> multi-fluted
> type.
>
> Steve Zicree
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Countersinks on Wing Spar... (not processed: message
> from
> valid local sender)
>
>
> >
> > I was cutting the countersink holes for the screw attach holes for
> the
> fuel tank. My problem is that I noticed after the countersink is done,
> > the inside hole at the bottom of the countersink is not perfectly
> round,
> in fact some are quite jagged. I am wondering, is this a problem? and
> > how do you prevent it?
> >
> > - Matt
> > www.rv7a.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
"RV List"
Subject: | moving front stick aft 4" |
I spent this weekend solving one of my few complaints with RV's; that being
that the control stick is placed forward such that the pilot has to extend
their arm a fair amount in normal flying. I personally prefer the control
stick to be closer to me so that I have complete range of motion (with no
interference) while maintaining a comfortable reclined seating position.
This can be done; I sacrificed a stock RV-4 control torque tube weldment
over the weekend and worked out all the geometry that ultimately moved the
front stick aft a full 4.0". This placement feels very good. I will now
build the proper fixturing and make a new control torque tube from scratch
without the cobble. I just wanted to let people know that this change is
not that hard.
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
HR2 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
FYI for those interested in some common space to share and learn info about the
Grand Rapids Tech EFIS, Graphic Engine Monitoring and Moving Map Display.
* Your group information:
Group name: GRT_EFIS
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS
Group email address: GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com
FYI for those interested in some common space to share and learn info about the
Grand Rapids Tech EFIS, Graphic Engine Monitoring and Moving Map Display.
* Your group information:
Group name: GRT_EFIS
Group home page: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS
Group email address: GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Heat muff for carburated engines only |
Usually it is because the exhaust pipes are routed differently for fuel
injected engines and the heat muff for carburated engines may not fit. Try
it and see if it fits. If it does then you are OK.
Mike Robertson
>From: "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)allstream.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "Matronics rv list"
>Subject: RV-List: Heat muff for carburated engines only
>Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2004 16:31:32 -0600
>
>
> I just received my heat muff from
> Van's
> The instructions say "for carburated engines
>only"
> Since my engine will be fuel injection I wonder why they have
> this restriction?
>
>
>GEORGE H. INMAN
>ghinman(at)allstream.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
>
>I ordered the double function pressure switch from vans and therefore
>have a backup which is a low pressure warning. I like it.
This is the way to go. "Idiot" lights serve as a back-up for the
gauges and as a back-up for an inattentive pilot. Nice to have them on oil
pressure, temperature, voltage, and especially fuel.
An oil pressure idiot light naturally self-tests during the
starting sequence. It can be a bit tricky to get the other functions to
self-test, but is possible. Press-to-test type indicators are a
possibility, but only test the bulb, not the circuit or the sensor.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
Subject: | Re: Countersinks on Wing Spar... |
I found that if you run the drill slowly, and press down on the cage very
firmly, the countersinks come out pretty well. A little duct tape on the
face of the cage helps too.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jack Blomgren" <jackanet(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | IO snorkle to cowl baffle? |
-8 Builders with IO-360 using Van's VA-132 horizonal induction snorkle,
Installation Instructions with the above snorkle induction system are very
sparce and with illustrations no help to me in mating the snorkle in the
area of Van's cowl baffle part 3 (forward left front side). An example of
some confusion, the top left side of the snorkle is about an inch further
outboard than the forward projecting cowl baffle part 3. Does anyone have
more info, drawings, measurments and/or photos to clarify this area?
Examples of how others solved the marriage of the snorkle (with filter) to
this baffling will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Jack,
Red Wing, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
Subject: | 3/16 inch bolts??? |
While building the wing, I found it amusing that the instructions called
for "3/16 inch bolts" to attach the jig bracket (angle) to the outboard
wing rib. I wonder how many folks have gone to the hardware store and
naively asked for 3/16 inch bolts. Kind of like being sent out for a
"frammis" or a bucket of prop wash. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
If you intend to so any real painting at all, you really should pick up
a quart of wax/degreaser from you local auto paint supplier. This is
what you to wipe the surface with prior to any paint.
Coleman is a very good degreaser and cheap cheap. But it is not the same
as the wax/degreaser for sure. They do not smell the same, nor apply the
same. I use the coleman to pre-wipe parts, gets all that oily crud off,
then a final wipe with the wax/degreaser just before paint.
I am not a painter but I spent nights and weekends for 6 weeks on my 6
in a professional automotive paint shop that paints high end stuff
(jags, Mercedes, and BMW's), and this wax/degreaser liquid was sprayed
on as the last weapon before either primer or paint was applied.
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Subject: Re: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel.
Randy Lervold
> Hi,
>
> What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
> a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
> big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
> solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
> the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
> solvent to use?
>
> Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
>
> Many thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Subject: | Re: moving front stick aft 4" |
Hi,
Is the position of your stick going to be much different
that this one:
http://www.rvwoody.com/Stick.html
I've got one of these, and the stock stick. I'll
try the both and see which one I like better.
Mickey
>... I sacrificed a stock RV-4 control torque tube weldment
>over the weekend and worked out all the geometry that ultimately moved the
>front stick aft a full 4.0". This placement feels very good. I will now
>build the proper fixturing and make a new control torque tube from scratch
>without the cobble. I just wanted to let people know that this change is
>not that hard. ...
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
I'm not counting on the these protective primers to support a base coat.
I'm removing them where I want to paint and spraying an etching primer
first, scuffing and then shooting the base coat/top coat. I think it will
be a more durable finish when you can be sure of the compatibility of the
products...
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mickey Coggins
Subject: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Hi,
What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
solvent to use?
Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
Many thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Guys,
Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to
what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that I'm putting
in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for something
like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking
than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for
$740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway,
if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let
me know...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring...
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
Hi Mark
If you use a audio stall warning alarm it will need to be loud to hear it
above engine noise and past your headset, also possibly under great stress
in bad weather! To prevent alarming my passengers on landing I decided to
just used a red light adjacent to the airspeed indicator on my 6A, works
great except that I cannot see it during pre-flight inspection.
On the 7A I am building my stall warning will be a dome shaped red light
mounted up through the glare shield in my direct line of forward vision and
also visible during walk around (it is interesting to see the stall light
come on momentarily at 150 IAS during a roll).
In my opinion the Safe Flight stall warning system is the biggest rip-off in
all of aviation, my complete system will cost less than $25.
George in Langley
-----Original Message-----
Guys,
Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound
to what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that
I'm putting in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for
something like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill
and shocking than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn
with light for $740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include
the vane. So anyway, if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a
beastie please let me know...
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring...
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
It should also be noted that the type of cloth you use can have a big impact
on the amount of lint. Also, once clean, be sure to use a tack cloth to get
the last of the lint.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
>
> If you intend to so any real painting at all, you really should pick up
> a quart of wax/degreaser from you local auto paint supplier. This is
> what you to wipe the surface with prior to any paint.
>
> Coleman is a very good degreaser and cheap cheap. But it is not the same
> as the wax/degreaser for sure. They do not smell the same, nor apply the
> same. I use the coleman to pre-wipe parts, gets all that oily crud off,
> then a final wipe with the wax/degreaser just before paint.
>
> I am not a painter but I spent nights and weekends for 6 weeks on my 6
> in a professional automotive paint shop that paints high end stuff
> (jags, Mercedes, and BMW's), and this wax/degreaser liquid was sprayed
> on as the last weapon before either primer or paint was applied.
>
> Mike Stewart
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
>
>
> Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel.
>
> Randy Lervold
>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
> > a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
> > big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
> > solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
> > the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
> > solvent to use?
> >
> > Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
> >
> > Many thanks,
> > Mickey
> >
> > --
> > Mickey Coggins
> > http://www.rv8.ch/
> > #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
What about a "backup" beeper? Kind of like the beeper that comes with
the MicroMonitor. Sounds like a truck backing up but it get's your
attention. I like the light idea too.
czechsix(at)juno.com wrote:
>
>
>Guys,
>
>Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound to
what's used on spam cans? I made my own spam-style stall vane/tab that I'm
putting in the LE of the wing. I bought a piezo alarm from Digikey for something
like $1 but it sounds like a fire alarm....it's a bit more shrill and shocking
than I want. Aircraft Spruce sells a Safe Flight stall horn with light for
$740.00. You read that right...$740! That doesn't include the vane. So anyway,
if somebody knows of a non-aircraft source for such a beastie please let
me know...
>
>Thanks,
>
>--Mark Navratil
>Cedar Rapids, Iowa
>RV-8A N2D wiring...
>
>Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
>Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Mark,
The Europa aircraft (glass) uses a pressure transducer that has a
port in the leading edge around the 16 degree angle point and they adjust
the transducer to trip at the speed they want. You could set it for 5
mph over stall or what ever you want. the contacts can run what ever
alarm you want. Kind of neat way to do it.
Jim
RV9A
N599RV (reserved)
(ex owner of an Europa- nice plane)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: IO snorkle to cowl baffle? |
Jack,
I have a couple of photos on my web site of what I did on my 7A. I think
the 8 is similar. There's also a photo of my Whirl Wind Prop there for those
interested.
http://users.aol.com/n67bt
Bob Trumpfheller
<<-8 Builders with IO-360 using Van's VA-132 horizonal induction snorkle,----
Jack,
Red Wing, MN>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
More specifically, Dupont 3939S Enamel and Lacquer Cleaner. Metal prep and
not as hot(stong) as normal lacquer thinner or some solvents that will strip
primers. Has much lower flash point so it evaporates slower which makes
cleaning easier. BTW, it won't easily wipe off Sharpie lines like normal
thinners will. Available at any auto parts store or paint specialty shop
that handles Dupont paint (PPG & SW have equivalents).
Bill S
Maumelle, Ark
7a QB fuse
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael
(ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RE: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
If you intend to so any real painting at all, you really should pick up
a quart of wax/degreaser from you local auto paint supplier. This is
what you to wipe the surface with prior to any paint.
Coleman is a very good degreaser and cheap cheap. But it is not the same
as the wax/degreaser for sure. They do not smell the same, nor apply the
same. I use the coleman to pre-wipe parts, gets all that oily crud off,
then a final wipe with the wax/degreaser just before paint.
I am not a painter but I spent nights and weekends for 6 weeks on my 6
in a professional automotive paint shop that paints high end stuff
(jags, Mercedes, and BMW's), and this wax/degreaser liquid was sprayed
on as the last weapon before either primer or paint was applied.
Mike Stewart
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Randy Lervold
Subject: Re: RV-List: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question
Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel.
Randy Lervold
> Hi,
>
> What is the best way to prepare the Van's QB wash primer for
> a top coat? I was thinking something like windex to get the
> big dirt and dust off, then coming back with some kind of
> solvent to finish it off. I tried acetone, but it takes
> the primer right off. Anyone have any hints on what
> solvent to use?
>
> Also, do you think I need to go back with a scotchbrite pad?
>
> Many thanks,
> Mickey
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying - then
you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!1
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Allen" <ajdubers(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Flying with flaps down |
If he had full flaps I bet he couldn't climb and get much more than
100-110mph.....
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Flying with flaps down
Fellow RVers,
This friend of mine has an RV-7A just like mine. He took off from an
airport
after a fuel stop, and flew about 5 miles with the flaps full down. I'm
sure
he was well over the white arc, maybe 150 mph. When he got to his
destination he looked everything over, and can find no damage. Has
anyone else ever
done this? I just want to put my, err I mean his, mind at ease.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying 64 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)earthlink.net> |
Rather than a stall warning, I think some sort of angle of attack
indicator is much more useful. There are several on the market.
Everything I've read indicates that AOA is a good thing to have.
I've got one.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 11/8/2004 10:40:12 AM Pacific Standard Time,
czechsix(at)juno.com writes:
Does anyone know of a source for a cheap stall warning horn similar in sound
to what's used on spam cans?
==========================================
ACI ROWLANDS LTD has one. They are listed in the Yeller Pages.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: QB primer topcoat paint preparation question |
In a message dated 11/8/2004 8:46:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,
randy(at)romeolima.com writes:
Naptha, aka Coleman Fuel.
It's Naphtha, people! Say it with me three times...really fast. I have no
idea what Naptha is, but I do know what NAFTA is.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A C/S, flying 725 hrs)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Listers,
I found a great web site and description of the various systems,
components, and how they work.
With the messages over the years about these systems. Which sump part
does what. Will this part fit this engine and so forth, I felt it
appropriate to archive this great website where the author has taken the
time to lay it all out, pictures and all, with detailed descriptions.
Zooming in on the pics and you can actually easily read the text
clearly. That's a nice change of pace. Also good discussions on exactly
what each part is doing when your inverted and how it all works, various
sump modifications, system selection based on engine model, all the
little doodad parts and descriptions, components and dimensions, kit
options, blah blah blah. First time I ever ran across a site so thorough
on the matter.
Enjoy,
Mike Stewart
Toying with the idea
S8 painting interior fuse
http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/invert.php
________________________________________________________________________________
Just read Europa has filed for bankruptcy.
>
>Mark,
> The Europa aircraft (glass) uses a pressure transducer that has a
>port in the leading edge around the 16 degree angle point and they adjust
>the transducer to trip at the speed they want. You could set it for 5
>mph over stall or what ever you want. the contacts can run what ever
>alarm you want. Kind of neat way to do it.
>
>Jim
>RV9A
>N599RV (reserved)
>
>(ex owner of an Europa- nice plane)
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Listers,
I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
system.
Stewart RV-4 Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
Subject: | RV-6/6A Jigs available |
I have just removed my fuselage bottom from the jig. The jig is the wooden
'ladder' type from Vans' plans and I have removed the last two crossmembers
to support the fuselage on the sawhorses. Free to a good home, for the cost
of a single 2x4 (to replace the crossmembers) you get a complete jig. It's
located in Flagstaff, AZ. I don't know of any builders up here or how many
builders still need a jig, for that matter, so if someone doesn't take it
I'll just disassemble it and reuse the lumber. I also have the wing jig;
it's a freestanding jig built according to the plans that are on my website.
It's made of cedar so it was perfect for building in my apartment living
room. While I no longer need to work in an apartment, it'll still make a
good riveting stand when I build my next RV unless someone decides to take
it first. Also free to a good home. I won't deliver, sorry.
Patrick Kelley - RV-6A - Fuselage is now right way up!
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Canopy Safety Latch |
Anybody have experience, positive or negative, with the canopy safety latch on
the RV4? I'm installing the canopy and wondering if the extra latch is worth the
trouble. I'm not convinced that it would really hold the thing down and it
seems a bit flimsy.
Steve Zicree
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
Subject: | Used Wing Cradle?? (Was: RV-6/6A Jigs available) |
Looking for a wing cradle in Denver. If anyone has one (or a pair)
that they are done with, it would save me the time of building my own.
>
>I have just removed my fuselage bottom from the jig. The jig is the wooden
>'ladder' type from Vans' plans and I have removed the last two crossmembers
>to support the fuselage on the sawhorses. Free to a good home, for the cost
>of a single 2x4 (to replace the crossmembers) you get a complete jig.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Subject: | fuel tank process pictures |
I have been convinced by a good friend that I should post a series of building
process pictures on my web site. The idea is to get a bunch of high quality photos
in sequence to help others along. I have to admit, I have used the photos
on everyone else's websites to get tips for my own project (RV 10). I will also
be able to reference particular pictures when I get the inevitable questions
that I answer every day. Hopefully you guys will be able to pick up some good
tips. So here is my offer.....If any of you guys are willing to let me post
pictures of your tanks, I will discount my labor for you by 20%. I would like
to get one set of pictures for each of the popular models of aircraft. I also
really want to get some of the modifications such as capacitive fuel senders and
flop tubes. For the gentlemen who have recently ordered tanks and are in my
schedule now, you may also consider my offer good (as long as it is not too late
to get the picts.) Since I am revamping the website, please feel free to make
any suggestions. Are there particular issues you would like to see addressed....pictures
you would like to see?
Thanks a bunch,
Evan Johnson
(530)351-1776
www.evansaviationproducts.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Yes they did but there is a group that has bought them out. It is too
good a plane to disappear. The concept is what counts for the stall
warning. We are experimenters - right ?? I agree that a AOA is the
best way to know what the wing is doing.
Jim Nelson
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Regarding the best way to know what the wing is doing, I would suggest
getting some good acro training. When I was getting my private, I was
troubled by how much time was spent learning what not to do. Don't bank
beyond this, don't climb steeper than that, and for god's sake, don't spin.
It left me feeling like the plane was just waiting to bite me if I went past
some very sketchy limits. Shortly after getting my private, I got some good
acro training from Sunrise Aviation. It makes a huge difference in my
ability to "know what the wing is doing". This is just my experience, your
mileage may vary.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Stall Horn
>
> Yes they did but there is a group that has bought them out. It is too
> good a plane to disappear. The concept is what counts for the stall
> warning. We are experimenters - right ?? I agree that a AOA is the
> best way to know what the wing is doing.
>
> Jim Nelson
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bluecavu(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: BMA EFIS Lite G3 |
> I've read the archives........
>
> Is there anyone on the list flying a BMA EFIS Lite G3 that cares to
> volley a few messages with me?
>
> Thanks - Greg
>
Ditto Here...
Apparently only one person replied to this inquiry by Greg?
Anybody got an EFIS lite GIII yet? Any current users of BMA EFIS of any type
that want to comment on the product they have? Any comments on the company?
I'm struggling to decide what to do. Love the idea of the Elite GIII from
what I read on the company website, but I've yet to hear anything from out there
in the field/real-world.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Safety Latch |
I put mine on. It wasn't much trouble. Took about an hour. I haven't
tested it though. ;-)
steve zicree wrote:
>
>Anybody have experience, positive or negative, with the canopy safety latch on
the RV4? I'm installing the canopy and wondering if the extra latch is worth
the trouble. I'm not convinced that it would really hold the thing down and it
seems a bit flimsy.
>
>Steve Zicree
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=PbYSVufyjj24HzG/bGsa1J1KVBmFaZCrIp+glFS3OSvFnSwysvxziL8+oIr4m+lXottbmhazFlYiHmHHTGTJqiBESrD9iWDC0DSlrHLjlyEBfi5u1wPTgbnw67yYdc/dNRcUO3MAjb7eYyQJUBMyuvvba+XyB+LSl+/Kpp4pgeY;
From: | Dan Reeves <williamdanielreeves(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Forward skins, Firewall Flange, Hinges - What gets dimpled / |
countersunk?
I am in the process of dimpling the F-772 forward bottom skin and the F-770 forward
side skins. What gets dimpled and what gets countersunk when it comes to
the firewall flange, the cowl hinges, and the skins?
Thanks in advance!
Dan
RV-7A
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted
oil system?
http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Subject: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Date: Tue, 9 Nov 2004 07:55:21 -0500
Listers,
I found a great web site and description of the various systems,
components, and how they work.
With the messages over the years about these systems. Which sump part
does what. Will this part fit this engine and so forth, I felt it
appropriate to archive this great website where the author has taken the
time to lay it all out, pictures and all, with detailed descriptions.
Zooming in on the pics and you can actually easily read the text
clearly. That's a nice change of pace. Also good discussions on exactly
what each part is doing when your inverted and how it all works, various
sump modifications, system selection based on engine model, all the
little doodad parts and descriptions, components and dimensions, kit
options, blah blah blah. First time I ever ran across a site so thorough
on the matter.
Enjoy,
Mike Stewart
Toying with the idea
S8 painting interior fuse
http://musclebiplane.org/htmlfile/invert.php
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | backup oil temperature & pressure gauge |
Bryan
One neat feature of the RMI MicroMonitor is that it has a back up power
supply feature. You add a small 1.8 amp/hour RG battery. The MicroMonitor's
power switch has 3 positions OFF ON & BATTERY. It also has a trickle charge
circuit to keep the back up battery charged. No single point of failure here.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Good point on the engine monitor, however in my case, the power supply for
>the entire engine monitor is common. Loose regulated power for the monitor
>and you loose all EGTs, CHTs, tach, temps, pressures, fuel levels,
>pressures, etc. I'd imagine other integrated engine monitors have similar
>weaknesses.
>
>Come to think of it, what might provide some redundancy in engine condition
>indication as well as add helpful info is one of those low oil sump level
>alarms. IMO, that would be even better than a high temp/low pressure backup
>indicator. A better plan...
>
>Bryan
>
>
> >From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RE: RV-List: backup oil temperature & pressure gauge
> >Date: Tue, 09 Nov 2004 06:42:32 -0800
> >
> ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >For those concerned about back up oil temp and pressure, I think a engine
> >monitor covering all cylinders is better instrumentation than your back up
> >gauges. This gives you a better idea of what your engine is doing before
> >you can sense/feel anything. The chances of a cylinder related problem is
> >much higher than a oil temp/pressure gauge going out. I guess what I am
> >trying to say is I dont understand why you want back up gauges, there are
> >other areas you can improve to have a safer flight. No insults to anyone
> >intended.
> >
>snipped
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: > Re:Canopy Safety Latch. |
I reversed my canopy lock so that it pushes FORWARD to lock. I got an RV-4
canopy safety latch in my finish kit,which I can't use now. I think it would
maybe save a canopy being dumped off ;so if anyone can use it you can have it.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
oldsfolks(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
An AOA system will give you a lot more than stall warning. Here is a very
good article on AOA with Jerry VanGrunsven. Jerry is a very big supporter of
AOA and has them in his RV's.
_http://www.angle-of-attack.com/KitPlanes%20Article.pdf_
(http://www.angle-of-attack.com/KitPlanes%20Article.pdf)
Rob Hickman
RV-4 N401RH
RV-10
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Safety Latch |
Steve,
I never installed one on my -4 since the canopy latch still has plenty of
friction after 12 years and 1100 hrs. of usage. It has never crept toward
the unlatched position in flight. Then again, there's always the next
flight!! YMMV
Ivan Haecker -4 1115 hrs S. Cen. TX
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Safety Latch
>
> Anybody have experience, positive or negative, with the canopy safety
latch on the RV4? I'm installing the canopy and wondering if the extra latch
is worth the trouble. I'm not convinced that it would really hold the thing
down and it seems a bit flimsy.
>
> Steve Zicree
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Fuel Sender(standard float) |
I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the wing
kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float arm
to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left corner
of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it there
the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So if
you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float arm
in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task slow
and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the Appox.
3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram provided
it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
right fuel tank.
I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will be
honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. Only
when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the 90
degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
she'll probably break clean off on you.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Lawson" <jlawson(at)grosseileairport.com> |
Subject: | Happy Birthday, Marines |
To all the Marines on the List: Happy 229th Birthday!
Semper Fidelis,
John
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to bend
the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and possibly
jam.
http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
Regards,
/\/elson
RV-7A
Austin, TX
On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the wing
> kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float arm
> to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left corner
> of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it there
> the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So if
> you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float arm
> in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task slow
> and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the Appox.
> 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram provided
> it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> right fuel tank.
>
> I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will be
> honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting. Only
> when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the 90
> degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> she'll probably break clean off on you.
>
--
~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
time, then break it again.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Aerotech Services - fuel bladders |
From: | sjhdcl(at)kingston.net |
Does anyone experience using fuel tank bladders from Aerotech Services?
http://www.aerotechservicesinc.com/
I'm considering using this company to provide ferry tanks for my RV7A.
Steve
RV7A #2
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Bob Hodgson" <bob(at)hodgson252.freeserve.co.uk> |
Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
Gary,
Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done
before.
It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on
the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on the
Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil
separator to the breather fitting.
Second difference, it's cheaper!
Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works.
It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is
available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump kit
(vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone
wants this, get in touch.
Bob (UK)
RV3B "finishing" (?)
----- Original Message -----
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
>
> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted
> oil system?
>
> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Canopy Stop - Plastic Cam Device |
0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From: contains an underline and numbers/letters
I saw a neat device this weekend used to stop the canopy on an -8. It had a
machined plastic component attached to the canopy rail near the middle of
the canopy. The component attached to the moving canopy frame looked like a
lobe off a cam. Was very ingenious device that stopped the canopy mid way,
but required no pic to pull or latch to disengage. Just pull it forward and
it released.
Anyone know where I can get one of these?
Thanks
Bryan Jones
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <rv6(at)cableone.net> |
RV-6 FOR SALE
Flying & ready for your paint scheme!
First flight 1/03
83TTAF/Sens. Prop/SMOH O-320 160hp
Slider - Electric trim/flaps - Dual controls - NICE !!!
Asking $68K, serious inq's only
Full details, pics, and contact info at website: myweb.cableone.net/racker (reply
off-list only
please)
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Inverted Oil Systems |
Hi All-
For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the
other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
sump.
FWIW
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Darwin Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net> |
,
Subject: | RV7 Gear legs For Sale |
New, never used RV 7 gear legs for sale. (tialdragger)
$295+ plus actual shipping.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
Much email discussion concerns back-up safety systems in an RV. My
opinion - an AOA system, with whatever flags / warnings you're
comfortable with - is an extremely worthwhile investment.
I'm a FNG in the RV world - started assembling my RV-8A emp kit last
week - but do have nearly 7K hrs. flying Navy tactical jets. I find the
AOA discussions interesting. To me, it's a preference / what you are
used to discussion. I always flew AOA - not just in the landing pattern,
but for max range / max endurance and edge of the envelope maneuvering -
including climb. Most of the time after the initial AOA / Airspeed
crosscheck, I couldn't tell you my landing airspeed. Over the years I
experienced several pitot-static problems and flew the entire mission
with only AOA.
We modified our squadron jets (VA-127 Adversary) to move the AOA gage
from the left knee to the top left of the instrument panel cluster,
right below the AOA indexers (which worked only with the gear down).
During heavy buffet maneuvering, a quick glance at the AOA gage
sometimes proved invaluable. And part of the gouge on A-4 spin recovery
was to check the AOA gage to determine what kind of spin you were in -
full positive for upright, full negative for inverted, and if the AOA
gage wasn't pegged, you weren't spinning but were in a high speed
departure. It made a huge difference in selection of recovery
procedures.
Navy AOA flying is certainly not entirely applicable to the RV
community, but would seem to have at least as much RV utility as some of
the pricey glass cockpit avionics options folks are installing.
Paul Valovich
"Booger"
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
Subject: | Re: Inverted Oil Systems |
got a link?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Hi All-
>
> For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
> Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the
> other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
> The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
> system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
> sump.
>
> FWIW
>
> Glen Matejcek
> aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
>
>
>
>
got a link?
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek"
Hi All-
For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as the
other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
sump.
FWIW
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
Yes, you have added some obstacles. Good point! Thanks.
>From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
>bend
>the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
>possibly
>jam.
>
>http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>
>Regards,
> /\/elson
> RV-7A
> Austin, TX
>
>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> >
> > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the
>wing
> > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float
>arm
> > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left
>corner
> > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it
>there
> > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So
>if
> > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float
>arm
> > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task
>slow
> > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the
>Appox.
> > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram
>provided
> > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> > right fuel tank.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will
>be
> > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting.
>Only
> > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the
>90
> > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> > she'll probably break clean off on you.
> >
>
>--
>~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender or
is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety
wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a
hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably be
looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood.
Bruce
>From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
>bend
>the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
>possibly
>jam.
>
>http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>
>Regards,
> /\/elson
> RV-7A
> Austin, TX
>
>On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> >
> > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the
>wing
> > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float
>arm
> > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left
>corner
> > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it
>there
> > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So
>if
> > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float
>arm
> > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task
>slow
> > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the
>Appox.
> > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram
>provided
> > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> > right fuel tank.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will
>be
> > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting.
>Only
> > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the
>90
> > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> > she'll probably break clean off on you.
> >
>
>--
>~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
No Different whe it comes to the vac.pump pad fitting. Many people can & do
use the same vac.pump pad fitting for the Christen systems. This keeps the
momentary "drop" in pressure from happening.
That being said, the Christen system is still significatly more expensive
than the "clone" which from what I've seen is basically the same thing, just
a copy.
Just an FYI..
Cheers,
Stein Bruch
Rv6's, Minneapolis (one with Inverted fuel/oil).
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hodgson
Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
Gary,
Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done
before.
It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on
the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on the
Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil
separator to the breather fitting.
Second difference, it's cheaper!
Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works.
It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is
available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump kit
(vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone
wants this, get in touch.
Bob (UK)
RV3B "finishing" (?)
----- Original Message -----
> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
>
> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen inverted
> oil system?
>
> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>
> Gary A. Sobek
> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
Subject: | RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann, Bendix,
Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
...........................................................................
Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
Listers,
I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
system.
Stewart RV-4 Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
Subject: | Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) |
I Installed a big red light on the dash (sunlight seeable) wired to a micro
switch that senses the canopy rod as it engages the lock (hole). Adjusted
the micro switch to be sensitive (picks at the very end of the rod
engagement) in that if any creep were to occur in the rod unlatching the big
red light would come on well before actual disengagement of the rod from the
hole. I can't take off with a red light on (hopefully) & checklist states to
observe red light on to verify working.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic
options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending
unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch
each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider
moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free
to call or email me.
Evan Johnson
(530)351-1776 cell
www.evansaviationproducts.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>
>
> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
bend
> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
possibly
> jam.
>
> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>
> Regards,
> /\/elson
> RV-7A
> Austin, TX
>
> On Tue, 9 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> >
> > I ran into something this evening working on my right fuel tank. In the
wing
> > kit Van's sends you a small "float and wire" diagram to bend the float
arm
> > to the right dimensions. I glanced at the ISO view in the upper left
corner
> > of the depiction and if you bend the float arm the way they show it
there
> > the float body will impact the rear stiffener in the empty position. So
if
> > you pay close attention to the 3/4" 90 degree bend you make in the float
arm
> > in relation to the float itself you will avoid problems. Take this task
slow
> > and systematic. Cleco the sender in. Understand what side the float arm
> > clips in. Study the diagram/dimensions in the lose papers and not the
Appox.
> > 3" called out on drawing 16A for the "X" & "Y" bend. In the diagram
provided
> > it calls out for specific dimensions and are different for the left and
> > right fuel tank.
> >
> > I hope this helps someone out there before they hit this stage. I will
be
> > honest I only realized this when I was all done, bending and cutting.
Only
> > when checking the travel of the arm and float did I notice, "bending the
90
> > degree the wrong way" the float body would have impact the bottom, rear
> > stiffener. I would not want to bend the wire 180 degrees the other way,
> > she'll probably break clean off on you.
> >
>
> --
> ~~ ** ~~ If you didn't learn anything when you broke it the 1st ~~ ** ~~
> time, then break it again.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
Here's a link to E-mag and P-mag info. These things sound like a great
solution, especially emag.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
>
>
> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
Bendix,
> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>
>
> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
>
>
...........................................................................
> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
>
>
> Listers,
> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
> system.
>
> Stewart RV-4 Colorado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
Let's try that emag link again. And it's the Pmag that looks the coolest.
http://www.emagair.com/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
>
>
> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
Bendix,
> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>
>
> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
>
>
...........................................................................
> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
>
>
> Listers,
> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
> system.
>
> Stewart RV-4 Colorado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
for fear of it opening further un flight.
Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I
believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open
a few inches.
What are the groups experiences?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open.
It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took
off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he
couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind
would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible
combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch
it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4!
923te wrote:
>
>I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
>might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
>for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I
>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open
>a few inches.
>What are the groups experiences?
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
Phase # accidents % Fatal
of Flight
T/O 451 33
Climb 61 52
Cruise 91 44
Maneuvering 294 69
Decent 76 72
Approach 201 39
Em. Ldg 64 28
Landing 269 6
Go around VFR 36 17
Go around IFR 3 100
UKN 276 34
This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one time
or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such a
terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading cause of
this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin accidents
were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have been
killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
This puts it all in perspective!
This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
www.riteangle.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
Hi tech solution. I keep a bright yellow cloth pin on my throttle anytime
the canopy is open. Once Im ready to go, I remove it from the throttle
cable and place it on the canopy handle. Its worked for me so far. I would
have forgetten it a couple times in the beginning. I have a slider by the
way.
Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
140 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
> A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open.
> It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he took
> off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he
> couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind
> would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an incredible
> combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch
> it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4!
>
> 923te wrote:
>
>>
>>I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
>>might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
>>for fear of it opening further un flight.
>>
>>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
>>I
>>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
>>open
>>a few inches.
>>What are the groups experiences?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> Van Arts Consulting Services
> 3848 McHenry Ave
> Suite #155-184
> Modesto, CA 95356
> 209-986-4647
> Ps 34:4,6
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Subject: | Re: Re:Stall Horn |
>
>> If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying -
>> then
>> you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>
Now, now...
I didn't mean to start a long thread on the merits of Stall Warning. I agree wholeheartedly
that a stall warning device shouldn't replace good piloting skills
and thorough knowledge of how an airplane handles and feels leading up to (and
through) the stall. When I'm flying any airplane, I don't depend on the stall
warning system to make up for carelessness on my part....my goal is to never
allow myself to get into a situation where the stall warning would need to
alert me of an impending stall that I'm not already well aware of. But...statistics
say that some people get bit by stall/spin accidents year after year.
Some of them were probably careless, ignorant or unfamiliar with the airplane,
but not all of them...a number have been highly experienced pilots flying an
airplane in which they had thousands of hours logged. How many of those statistics
happened in airplanes with stall warning devices vs. those without, I don't
know (i.e. I don't know how much of a safety ben
efit a stall warning system is statistically). Stall warning doesn't guarantee
my safety, but I don't think it means I'm paranoid or inept if I decide to put
it in my airplane. I just think it's nice to have, just in case.
There are other things on my airplane that are nice to have, but not necessary,
like autopilot, attitude indicator (I'm VFR only), a fuel flow meter, a nosewheel,
an electronic engine monitor with alarm, a GPS, etc. None of these devices
should replace good piloting skills, judgement, or careful attention to flying/navigating
the airplane. But all of them have been deemed useful and practical
by ME for making MY flying experience safer and more convenient. I'm sure
some will disagree, which is fine...but this is my airplane, my money and my
butt in the seat, so I get to decide what goes in it and for what reasons :
) Some will assume that my decisions are based on lack of confidence in my flying
abilities, and I don't expect anything I've said here will change their perception
of me, or their perception of themselves that their superior abilities
will never ever allow them get bit...to each their own.
In the case of my stall warning system, I bought a microswitch and small piezo
alarm and rolled my own. I have all of about $5 invested in it right now. I'm
not convinced that spending upwards of $1K for a full-blown AOA system is worth
it for MY goals (although I think AOA would be nice to have!). My original
post was just asking about alternatives for the warning horn because my piezo
alarm sounds, well, a bit more "alarming" than I want it to. I'd like it to
get my attention but not give my passenger a heart attack. I'll take the advice
of several folks and call an aircraft salvage yard...
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D wiring....
Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Raven Hunter Studios" <info(at)ravenhunter.ca> |
Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
we are rteceiving your e-mails you must have a virus
----- Original Message -----
From: "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
>
> Let's try that emag link again. And it's the Pmag that looks the coolest.
> http://www.emagair.com/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??)
>
>
>>
>>
>> What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
> Bendix,
>> Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
>> Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>>
>>
>> Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
>>
>>
> ...........................................................................
>> Subject: RV-List: P-MAG
>>
>>
>> Listers,
>> I have been running on the P-MAG for about 15hr
>> now and it works as advertized. Runs great on it's
>> own power generator! I have seen a slight drop in fuel
>> consumption also. Still have a slick mag on the right
>> side but will be installing the M-mag this weekend for
>> a total electronic ignition without a backup electrical
>> system.
>>
>> Stewart RV-4 Colorado
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: AeroElectric-List: Re: Re:Stall Horn |
From: | "Matt Prather" <mprather(at)spro.net> |
Makes perfect sense to me.. In addition to finding a different warning
horn, you might be able to make one you have sound like you want. How
does it sound if you wrap it in a layer of duct tape? Or, how about putting
a 100ohm resistor in series with it?
Regards,
Matt-
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "czechsix(at)juno.com"
>
>
>
>>
>>> If you need a horn to tell you when your RV is about to quit flying -
>>> then
>>> you aren't flying enough !!!!!!!!!!!!!
>>>
>
> Now, now...
>
> I didn't mean to start a long thread on the merits of Stall Warning. I
snip
> would be nice to have!). My original post was just asking about
> alternatives for the warning horn because my piezo alarm sounds, well, a
> bit more "alarming" than I want it to. I'd like it to get my attention
> but not give my passenger a heart attack. I'll take the advice of
> several folks and call an aircraft salvage yard...
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D wiring....
>
>
> Sign up for Juno Today at http://www.juno.com!
> Look for special offers at Best Buy stores.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
Subject: | 24 Years of the RV-ator are here |
24 Years of the RVator books are here. (finally)
See the description at:
http://buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm
We just unloaded 159 cases of the new RV-ator book and they are ready to go
out the door. All customer backorders will go out today. All advertiser's
and other owed complementary copies will go out tomorrow. Thank you
everyone for your patience.
Thanks,
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com
800 780-4115
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Raven Hunter Studios" <info(at)ravenhunter.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here) |
olease note we are receiving your e-mails you might want to check your
system for a virus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Condon" <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
Subject: RV-List: Canopy Safety Latch (Use a idiot light here)
>
> I Installed a big red light on the dash (sunlight seeable) wired to a
> micro
> switch that senses the canopy rod as it engages the lock (hole). Adjusted
> the micro switch to be sensitive (picks at the very end of the rod
> engagement) in that if any creep were to occur in the rod unlatching the
> big
> red light would come on well before actual disengagement of the rod from
> the
> hole. I can't take off with a red light on (hopefully) & checklist states
> to
> observe red light on to verify working.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
Hi Bruce,
I bent the original float arm to the specs outlined in the plans and was not
happy with the results. After several iterations of using some wire that had
similar dimensions but not as springy as the original I finally settled on a
design (you can see from the www page the number tries and the final solution).
One problem I ran into was making the loop that holds the float - the wire
would expand too much while attaching the float and would not securely hold it.
So I opted to safety the arm to the float.
I also plan on on placing some proseal on the skin right above the float to
prevent the float from hitting the skin itself and possibly denting it over
time. Reason being that I carefully bent the float arm to maximize the space
allowed and minimize the amount of fuel to be consumed before the fuel gauge
would start working.
Regards,
/\/elson
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender or
> is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety
> wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a
> hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably be
> looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood.
> Bruce
>
>> From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
>> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
>>
>>
>>
>> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had to
>> bend
>> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
>> possibly
>> jam.
>>
>> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
>>
>> Regards,
>> /\/elson
>> RV-7A
>> Austin, TX
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
Hi Evan,
The reasoning behind why I installed the flap door was to prevent fuel from
sloshing over to the other bay while doing a slip while low on fuel (shame on
me if I'm that low to begin with but I figured it was free insurance and peace
of mind).
At this time, I'm not concerned. There appeared to be plenty of clearance
(3/8" to 1/2" if I recall) between the float, the flap, and stiffener by the
time I got everything bent.
I know that you build RV tanks for a living, based on your experience do you
have concerns with my design?
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the aerobatic
> options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending
> unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch
> each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should consider
> moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel free
> to call or email me.
>
> Evan Johnson
> (530)351-1776 cell
> www.evansaviationproducts.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
I noticed this also when I would rotate the fuel tank to quickly that the
arm or float, do not know which one because it is all closed up hits the
upper part of the skin. This does not a cure when rotated slowly or standard
rate of rotation.l But I began to think that this is just the gravity weight
of the float and arm itself in there. When you have fuel in there you will
not have this problem due to the fuel tension and + G force in most of your
normal flight maneuvers. I will not have any inverted systems on the 8 as
you know with the standard senders and pick-ups.
Thanks for the conversation.
Bruce Gray RV8 #81745
>From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 14:13:30 -0600 (CST)
>
>
>Hi Bruce,
>
>I bent the original float arm to the specs outlined in the plans and was
>not
>happy with the results. After several iterations of using some wire that
>had
>similar dimensions but not as springy as the original I finally settled on
>a
>design (you can see from the www page the number tries and the final
>solution).
>One problem I ran into was making the loop that holds the float - the wire
>would expand too much while attaching the float and would not securely hold
>it.
>So I opted to safety the arm to the float.
>
>I also plan on on placing some proseal on the skin right above the float to
>prevent the float from hitting the skin itself and possibly denting it over
>time. Reason being that I carefully bent the float arm to maximize the
>space
>allowed and minimize the amount of fuel to be consumed before the fuel
>gauge
>would start working.
>
>Regards,
> /\/elson
>
>On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, BRUCE GRAY wrote:
>
> >
> > Question for you. Is that the same float arm that came with your sender
>or
> > is that a refab? The question is the safety wire? I thought about safety
> > wire on my float but it seem to be pretty tight and would have to take a
> > hell of a jar to separate from the float arm. If it did I would probably
>be
> > looking a irreparable wreck. Knock on wood.
> > Bruce
> >
> >> From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
> >> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
> >> Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2004 07:57:14 -0600 (CST)
> >>
>
> >>
> >>
> >> And on a related note, I installed the flap door in the tank and I had
>to
> >> bend
> >> the float arm such that the two couldn't ever contact each other and
> >> possibly
> >> jam.
> >>
> >> http://caura.dyndns.org/gallery/album07/abd
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> /\/elson
> >> RV-7A
> >> Austin, TX
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com> |
Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you
penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable?
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
on opie.wvnet.edu
>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself. I
>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only open
>a few inches.
>What are the groups experiences?
YES
First time I flew out of Cincinnati class B airport, I forget its real
name. But after taking off and exiting the Class B airspace, I noticed it
was a little louder and a lot breezer. Located the problem, canopy was open
about 2 inches. I have the slider canopy.
Now I was not about to turn around and negotiate a landing back at the
class B airfield, flew to the next airstrip on my route, about 10 minutes,
landed and latched canopy. Tried to latch canopy in flight, no way. If I
was strong enough, I would have probably bent or broken the canopy handle.
Recommendation it this happens to you:
1. Fly the aircraft
2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely.
3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, the
suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward
(for the slider) latch locked.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
>>
>What is a P-MAG and a M-MAG ? (Familiar with LASAR, SLICK, Eismann,
>Bendix,
>Ross(Rose?) & Klaus Savior's Electronic mags, shower-o-sparks,standard
>Kettering ignition systems, CDI..........)
>
>
>Phil RV-4 R41RV NJ
Read all about it:
http://www.emagair.com
They're going on my RV10 engine someday if they prove to be reliable in the
coming years.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
I took off in my RV-6A tip up failing to engage the secondary latch.
Apparently had not completely locked down the main canopy latch handle
either. At around 300 ft the canopy popped open 6-8 " with a loud noise. I
continued climbing to 3500 MSL and leveled off, I then found I could pull it
down within an inch or so of the canopy rail but could not get it down far
enough to lock. I estimate my speed was around 85-90 mph at that point but
don't recall for certain.
I slowed to around 65-70 MPH and found that reduce the lift sufficient to
get the canopy down with a lot of pulling. However, I have since been
informed (but have not tried it ) that if you slow down and deploy full
flaps that the change in aircraft attitude makes it very easy to pull down
and lock.
Main thing, of course, is not to get distracted by a bit of noise and wind
and fail to "FLY THE AIRPLANE". The aircraft is perfectly controllable with
the canopy popped - although I don't think I would try a speed dash in that
configuration {:>)
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
> I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
> might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
> for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
> Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
I
> believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
open
> a few inches.
> What are the groups experiences?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
on opie.wvnet.edu
>To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
>These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
>Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
>Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
>Phase # accidents % Fatal
>of Flight
>T/O 451 33
>Climb 61 52
>Cruise 91 44
>Maneuvering 294 69
>Decent 76 72
>Approach 201 39
>Em. Ldg 64 28
>Landing 269 6
>Go around VFR 36 17
>Go around IFR 3 100
>UKN 276 34
>
>This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
>includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
Of all these accidents, how many of these planes had a stall warning device
or AOA. Is the stall warning device required for production aircraft. Is
it possible to get into a stall spin accident and actually have a stall
warning device or AOA indicator.
In a high speed stall, if I am correct, the amount of time between the
stall warning and the stall is insufficient to avoid the stall. At least
that is what happens in a snap roll, (I think, correct me if I am wrong).
I have observed human nature too long to believe that any safety device
will be 100% effective. I know there are people out there that will
somehow figure out how to kill themselves in a stall spin accident
regardless of any safety device installed in their aircraft.
To answer your question do I know of anyone who plans on having an accident?
Answer: YES, especially when they say:
1. It will never happen to me.
2. I can always recover from a stall before it goes into a spin.
3. What do you mean I stalled the aircraft, just because the stall warning
went off did not mean we were about to stall!
4. I don't need spin training because I will never be in a stall.
5. If I have a stall warning device I will never enter into a stall spin
accident.
Please don't take this as a flame, but I earn a living in high risk sports,
and the safety nuts are always telling me if only............(fill in the
blank) no one would ever get hurt/killed etc. My response is if no one
ever flew an airplane, no one would ever die in an airplane crash. How
many people died in stall spin crashes in the year 1640! My point exactly!!!
Don't get me wrong, I believe in safety, I fly akro with a parachute, even
though it is not required. But, If one parachute is good, then two must be
better and three will be better still and don't forget about one for the
airplane. Where does the quest for ultimate absolute safety stop and
common sense and training prevail?
The best safety device and safety investment is a regularly schedule
flight with a good CFI. It is my opinion that good training can overcome
a lack of some safety devices and get you out of some real trouble if you
ever get into it.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | richard dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
Hi D White,
I used the diagram for firewall penetrations that was puhlished in the
first issue 2001 of the RVator on page 18 . The cable was the one from
the Van's catalog for the RV-6(all): CT BLUE VPROP 45.5 which is 45.5".
I could send you a copy of the diagram if you don't have that issue.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A ready to move to the airport
dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
>Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you
penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
Brad is working on the 6 cylinder models
for the 0-540 guys.
No big black box to mount, all self
contained.
Stewart RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | RVer273sb(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-LIST P-MAG / M-MAG (Whats that ??) |
E-MAG Splash
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
Hey David, I really dont see any big problems with what you have done. As
long as the float is not interfering with the flapper door you should be
fine. In the aerobatic tanks you have to move the sender because the flop
tube is in the first bay banging around, and that woud likley get caught up.
Evan
----- Original Message -----
From: "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Sender(standard float)
>
>
> Hi Evan,
>
> The reasoning behind why I installed the flap door was to prevent fuel
from
> sloshing over to the other bay while doing a slip while low on fuel (shame
on
> me if I'm that low to begin with but I figured it was free insurance and
peace
> of mind).
>
> At this time, I'm not concerned. There appeared to be plenty of clearance
> (3/8" to 1/2" if I recall) between the float, the flap, and stiffener by
the
> time I got everything bent.
>
> I know that you build RV tanks for a living, based on your experience do
you
> have concerns with my design?
>
> Thanks,
> /\/elson
>
>
> On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> >
> > David, FYI.....the flap door usually only gets installed with the
aerobatic
> > options. This includes flop tube/guides/flap door and moving the sending
> > unit to the next bay out. So the door and the sender cant possibly catch
> > each other. So I guess if you are concerned about it, you should
consider
> > moving the sender in your application as well. Hope this helps....feel
free
> > to call or email me.
> >
> > Evan Johnson
> > (530)351-1776 cell
> > www.evansaviationproducts.com
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
Hi D,
5 3/8" down from the top horizontal firewall rivet line and 8 3/4" from
pilot's side of the fuselage using the 45 1/2 " cable suggested in the Van's
2000 catalog.
I spaced my engine prop controls a bit further apart than what seems to be
average. (personal preference) This put the prop control a bit further to
the right side of the control panel.
I wanted enough length of cable from the governor bracket to the firewall to
relieve stress during engine start and shut down. In my opinion I just made
it with little to spare.
With the 45 1/2" cable and using more average or normal spacing on the panel
would have been only a little bit better.
Going with the spec on the offered diagram should work.
Happy building
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: RV-List: Prop cable
>
> Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me
> where you penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control
> cable?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | David Nelson <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
Subject: | Re: Fuel Sender(standard float) |
Hi Evan,
Thanks for the feedback. I understand about the flop tube and the sender
having to move.
Thanks,
/\/elson
On Wed, 10 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> Hey David, I really dont see any big problems with what you have done. As
> long as the float is not interfering with the flapper door you should be
> fine. In the aerobatic tanks you have to move the sender because the flop
> tube is in the first bay banging around, and that woud likley get caught up.
>
> Evan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also.
Thanks,
John Furey
O-320 RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
>There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
>device (or any other safety system for that matter)...
>
A stall warning device is just like some other "safety" devices (like a
nose wheel) that let a pilot be just a little less proficient than he
would have to be otherwise... get enough of those "safety devices" and
you probably won't even have to learn to fly! 8>)
Dave -6
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "923te" <923te(at)cox.net> |
I could sure use the diagram as well.
Thanks,
Ned Thomas
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop cable
>
> If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also.
>
> Thanks,
> John Furey
> O-320 RV6A
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RV-9A QB rivet access. |
Hello,
I am trying to get access to the rivets under the F-721-B for the F-705 on
my -9A QB. Is it a case of making some creative bucking bars, or have
people cut off the slotted flange of the F-721B to get access. Other ideas
appreciated........
Thanks,
Pete
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | RV -7 with GRT EFIS and Dynon |
From: | Keith T Uhls <keithuhls(at)juno.com> |
Q:IIncidentallywhat do you use to drive the VOR and glideslope?
A: I purchased my GRT EFIS before they where selling them off the shelf.
So some things were not available at that time. For me I wanted to be
able to fly GPS approaches and in order to do that I had to have an OBS.
So I purchased the one from Garmin. I do not know if the one on the
EFIS would be legal and did not want to go through that battle in case I
lost. I do not have the interface yet but it is wired so I can drive the
OBS with the EFIS.
Q: Where did you get the switches for your panel?
A: A good question... I had a couple of guys here in Lockhart get their
switches from Gulf Coast Avionics. They paid $40 plus $10 for engraving.
I have 13 of these suckers.....and that is a lot of money. I looked for
Honeywell AML switches from Allied electronics and Newarkinone. I
purchased them from Newarkinone because they were the cheapest. However
I found out that they were low amperage (3amps). There are higher
amperages available from GCA (10 amps) At least that is what I was told
when I called them. One of my switches went bad and that made me
research the amperage. I ended up purchasing a few from them for my high
amperage items. Landing lights, strobes etc. We are putting them in
this week and I will let you know how that goes.
I had mine engraved by a guy in Las Vegas, Andy's Engraving and he
charged me $7.00 each. He did them in a matter of days and I was really
happy with them.
Q:I am not trying to nitpick anything but when flying the American
Flag on the tail of an aircraft the stars are into the wind.
A: Thanks for letting me know, especially before I got paint on it. I
will change it.
Jeff Bordelon took these pics and posted them to his web site. Here is
the link http://www.jeffsrv7a.com/KeithsRV7.htm
As you can see I have both the Grand Rapids and Dynon EFIS systems. I
really like both of them, they both have there place in the panel and
they keep getting better with each software update. If you have any
questions about either one let me know.
Keith Uhls
keithuhls(at)juno.com
RV-7 N7KU
now flying
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bruno <rv4(at)videotron.ca> |
Subject: | Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range |
Hello Listers
I have a Lycoming 0-320 E2D in my RV-4 and ever since
I got the a/c , the oil temperature has been hovering between 110 (Cold day
25 F)and 150
(very hot day 80 F.)
My first reaction was to check the oil temp gauge
which I found defective and I since replaced it with one from Van's. I
thought my problem will be over but not to avail.Next was to installed a
back plate to the back of the oil cooler.It did improve the oil temp a bit
but not by much.
I'm wondering what I can do next short of plugging the
air intake.
I have a Positech (7 rows) oil cooler on the a/c.
So what have you guys (specially the ones flying in cold climat) done to get
the proper oil temp?
Are there any oil cooler better than others??
What is your normal oil temperature range?
What are the potential problems I can expect? ( I know of a few but it will
be nice to know them all if possible.)
Thank you
Bruno Dionne
C-GDBH RV-4
rv4(at)videotron.ca
P.S # You may reply OFF list if you wish.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Scott Jackson" <jayeandscott(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems |
BAck in the mid-seventies, I went with a Christen clone by a company called
Akra-Line ( IIRC) at a fraction of the cost, when I was building up a Pitts
Special.
Only flew with it a few times, as it had a habit of dropping the oil
pressure to almost zero once the oil temperature got up to operating
temperature.
Swapping parts narrowed it down to the three-way valve, which must have had
too great a difference in expansion rates between the steel balls and the
valve body.
Ended up just coughing up the extra for the Christen.
Scott in VAncouver
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
> No Different whe it comes to the vac.pump pad fitting. Many people can &
> do
> use the same vac.pump pad fitting for the Christen systems. This keeps
> the
> momentary "drop" in pressure from happening.
>
> That being said, the Christen system is still significatly more expensive
> than the "clone" which from what I've seen is basically the same thing,
> just
> a copy.
>
> Just an FYI..
>
> Cheers,
> Stein Bruch
> Rv6's, Minneapolis (one with Inverted fuel/oil).
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Hodgson
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-Listt: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>
>
>
>
> Gary,
> Got one of these Raven systems for my RV3B. Tight fit, but it's been done
> before.
> It seems very similar to the Christen system, except that the top port on
> the oil valve is connected to an adaptor on the vac pump pad, whereas on
> the
> Christen, this port is connected to a T-fitting in the line from the oil
> separator to the breather fitting.
> Second difference, it's cheaper!
> Not fitted or flying yet, so can't report on how well it works.
>
> It so happens that because of a comms. glitch, I've got 2 systems, so 1 is
> available. It includes the oil separator, mount and clamps, valve, sump
> kit
> (vertical screen), vac pad oil pick-up, and one sump weld boss. If anyone
> wants this, get in touch.
>
> Bob (UK)
> RV3B "finishing" (?)
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>> From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
>> Subject: RE: RV-List: Christen 801 Inverted Oil Systems
>>
>>
>> Has anyone looked into what appears to be a clone of the Christen
>> inverted
>> oil system?
>>
>> http://www.ravenaircraft.com/raven_012.htm
>>
>> Gary A. Sobek
>> "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
>> 1,607 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
>> http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Subject: | Canopy Open In FLight |
On a tip up, that aft handle that you use to pull the canopy down and
twist to engage the tab under the roll over structure will not prevent
the canopy from coming open if the main latch on the left side is not
engaged. It'll just bend itself as it scratches the roll over structure
on it's way past. I don't know how high it would have opened if I hadn't
grabbed it on the way up. I was fortunate to have another pilot with me
and, as I held the canopy, he slowed the airplane. I was unable to close
it until we had slowed to about 80 mph. This happened in cruise at about
7500 ft and maybe 20 minutes after takeoff. After getting it latched, I
observed the latch working itself free again about a half hour later.
That's when I resolved to put a longer spring on it B4 further flight.
It latches very positively now and has given no further trouble.
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
I took off in my RV-6A tip up failing to engage the secondary latch.
Apparently had not completely locked down the main canopy latch handle
either. At around 300 ft the canopy popped open 6-8 " with a loud
noise. I
continued climbing to 3500 MSL and leveled off, I then found I could
pull it
down within an inch or so of the canopy rail but could not get it down
far
enough to lock. I estimate my speed was around 85-90 mph at that point
but
don't recall for certain.
I slowed to around 65-70 MPH and found that reduce the lift sufficient
to
get the canopy down with a lot of pulling. However, I have since been
informed (but have not tried it ) that if you slow down and deploy full
flaps that the change in aircraft attitude makes it very easy to pull
down
and lock.
Main thing, of course, is not to get distracted by a bit of noise and
wind
and fail to "FLY THE AIRPLANE". The aircraft is perfectly controllable
with
the canopy popped - although I don't think I would try a speed dash in
that
configuration {:>)
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
> I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as
I
> might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway
end
> for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
> Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by
itself.
I
> believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is
only
open
> a few inches.
> What are the groups experiences?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Canopy Unlock Incidents |
The recent thread on canopy unlock incidents is the best contribution to the
list in some time.
In 600 hour's operation of a tip over RV4 canopy, I had one incident where
rear rod did not engage it's locking hole. The canopy remained closed via
the front rod. My wife, in the back seat, said "it's windier than normal"
that's when I turned around and saw the problem. When I told her we'd be
going back to the airport to relock the canopy she said "that's OK I don't
mind the wind".
Of course the incident had to be at a Saturday morning launch from
Hillsboro, OR to Packwood for breakfast during a Van's homecoming several
years ago. There were probably 20+ RVs within 10 miles of the airport when
I had to make the returning call to the tower. Naturally, Jerry V. was the
one who picked up on the call.
I now visually check for engagement of both fore and aft rods. Based on the
other posts I will probably add a micro-switch controlled warning light on
the lock mechanisum.
Dick Sipp
Team RV wingman
RV4, RV10 underconstruction
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Dave Bristol <bj034(at)lafn.org> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu |
clamav-milter version 0.80j
on zoot.lafn.org
I hate to admit it but in the early days of flying my -6, I managed to
leave the slider unlatched 3 times! The first time I noticed it at about
7000 feet (because of the cold draft on the back of my neck). Since I
had so much altitude, I felt it was safer to try to close it than to
wait until I landed. In cruise you can forget it, it won't move, but if
you slow down and put the flaps down it closes pretty easily by
squeezing the lower front corner and the roll bar together on both
sides.. Of course, you have to let go of the stick to do it, so it's a
good idea to get the airplane trimmed for that speed.
The second time I noticed it on takeoff and just landed to close it. The
third time it happened it was a non-issue since I knew exactly what to do!
Now, before taking the runway, I automatically reach up and check the
handle. Now if I can just find a way to remember to turn on the fuel pump!
Dave -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor
>Recommendation it this happens to you:
>
>1. Fly the aircraft
>2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely.
>3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down, the
>suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward
>(for the slider) latch locked.
>
>Bob
>RV6 NightFighter
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
Elbie,
That is well enough said for this guy
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: <EMAproducts(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
>
> To all who said the stall warning / AOA was not needed,
> These pilots weren't planning on an accident either!
> Do you know of ANYONE who planned an accident?
> Taken from NTSB reports, a total of 1833 Stall Spin accidents
> Phase # accidents % Fatal
> of Flight
> T/O 451 33
> Climb 61 52
> Cruise 91 44
> Maneuvering 294 69
> Decent 76 72
> Approach 201 39
> Em. Ldg 64 28
> Landing 269 6
> Go around VFR 36 17
> Go around IFR 3 100
> UKN 276 34
>
> This is Stall Spin accidents only over a 9 year period up to 2004, it
> includes production and homebuilt aircraft.
> Notice the maneuvering, something all of us have been guilty of at one
> time
> or the other in our flying career/hobby. This is not near airports, such
> a
> terrible waste of equipment and lives. Buzz jobs etc were the leading
> cause of
> this type of accident, the fancy pull up and whoops, all over.
>
> You can bet not all 1833 accident aircraft involved in stall spin
> accidents
> were not familiar with their airplanes. Were all your friends who have
> been
> killed in a stall spin accidents idiots as some of you have implied?
>
> This puts it all in perspective!
>
> This isn't to flame or point fingers, but just cold statistics.
>
> Elbie, who has lost to many friends needlessly
> www.riteangle.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have limited
flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of my own experience.
However, from what flying I have done and from having known people who
flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin accidents, I really
think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio system) should
be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I see it has to do with
the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with which the RVs will do steeply
banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power. To me this
seems like it could have the effect of making the pilot complacent and possibly
get him into trouble. I have heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and
banking HARD when LOW in the pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing.
Remember your basic pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster
the stall speed becomes until it goes to infinity". This also applies to airplanes
with "adequate" power like the RV! Just because we have so much power
doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics. We can NOT just crank it over
and hold it there without consequences! An AOA indicator in the cockpit would
certianly help show us how close to the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those
busy times in the pattern where we might not be looking heads down at the
indicator.....the warning tone should help remind us not to press the envelope
any further. Two people I knew might still be alive today if they had these
features in the cockpit! Just IMHO.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Wiring and fuel system
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on |
zoot.lafn.org
Dave,
That's nonsense. By your reasoning a "proficient" pilot should ditch his
altimeter and just eyeball altitude. While we're at it, let's lose the flaps
and learn to properly slip to landing. Don't carrier pilots use an AOA? Hard
to find pilots more proficient than that.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re:Stall Horn clamav-milter version 0.80j on
zoot.lafn.org
>
>
> >There's absolutely nothing wrong with wanting or having a stall warning
> >device (or any other safety system for that matter)...
> >
>
> A stall warning device is just like some other "safety" devices (like a
> nose wheel) that let a pilot be just a little less proficient than he
> would have to be otherwise... get enough of those "safety devices" and
> you probably won't even have to learn to fly! 8>)
>
> Dave -6
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Nutplate jigs |
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>I'm kind of tired of my crappy looking nutplate installations,
>and I'm looking for any tips/tricks to make them better.
>My basic problem is getting the screw hole to line up right.
>
>Are nutplate jigs worth what people like Avery charge
>for them (38 USD)? Any other tricks that you care to pass on?
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
Mickey, just take a nutplate for each size (most likely #6, 8, and 10)
and put a long screw in them ..... 1/2" or more ...... and cut the head
off the screw. Round off the raw end of the screw. Drill (or use the
existing hole) and place the screw/nutplate in place and drill one ear
and cleco. Drill the other ear and rivet away! (no, don't rivet your
jig!) LOTS cheaper than any purchased jigs ..... and real cheap to
replace as the ear holes will become oversize after a while.
Linn
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
steve zicree wrote:
>
>Anyone know whether my gear leg fairing hinges are stainless? They're very thin
material and sure do look like stainless, but I'm not sure. Only reason I care
is I'd love to have one less thing to prime.
>
>Steve Zicree
>RV4, wearing pants!
>
Good stainless won't attract a magnet (or the other way around!)
Linn
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Dean,
I think you're dead-on accurate here. I've no experience in an RV, but have
seen ridiculously steep-banked RV's in the pattern. You mention using the
AOA to see how close we are to the "ragged edge". I agree whole-heartedly,
but I think we can go one better: Take her up nice and high and see just
what you can get away with before she stops flying. Straight ahead stalls
are great, but knowing where the break occurs in ALL attitudes is best. Back
when our balls-to-brains ratio was a bit too high, most of us figured out
exactly how fast we could take a corner in our car before the tires slip. I
want that same knowledge in my plane and will, with the proper training, try
to safely acquire it. That is if I ever finish this dang thing.
Steve Zicree
RV4, Fixin' to crack, I mean cut, the canopy
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: AOA
>
> Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have
limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of
my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having
known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin
accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into
the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I
see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with
which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly
unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of
making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard
many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the
pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic
pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes
until it goes to infinity"!
> . This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just
because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics.
We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An
AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the
ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we
might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should
help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew
might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just
IMHO.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Wiring and fuel system
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
One more thing on the AOA issue. I'm guessing most of you have read it, but
to those who haven't, get a copy of Stick and Rudder. It's an awesome book
on the subject.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: AOA
>
> Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have
limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of
my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having
known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin
accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into
the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I
see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with
which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly
unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of
making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have heard
many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the
pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic
pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes
until it goes to infinity"!
> . This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just
because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics.
We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences! An
AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to the
ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern where we
might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning tone should
help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two people I knew
might still be alive today if they had these features in the cockpit! Just
IMHO.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> Wiring and fuel system
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
Stall Warning & AOA
What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly experienced
pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of a
safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really
gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may
dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase the
safety level for those who do not "fly enough".
I will not go into my thoughts about selling the aircraft to a lower time
pilot, or allowing someone else to fly your aircraft.
Instead, I will just congratulate those who actually do "fly enough" to have
a "good feel for their aircraft" and diligently practice, while stressed,
emergency returns or diversions to a airport with a rough running engine or
some other emergency, overshooting their turn to final in a stiff crosswind
and throwing in simulated wind-shear - well done guys!!
George in Langley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
Subject: | Re: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range |
I have the same engine in my -6 and it runs 150 on cool days and 170 on hot
days. Haven't flown on really cold days yet. I have a flap on the oil
cooler that I can close to varying degrees and it will raise the temp. I
try to get the oil temp up to 180 by adjusting the flap. I have also put a
restrictor plate between the cooler and baffle to reduce the opening by 1/3
and it helped. I plan on enlarging the restrictor plate a little more.
You didn't mention what size oil cooler lines you are using. I have -8
fittings and oil lines. I think that -6 lines would help raise the oil
temp.
Jerry Calvert
N295JC RV6
Edmond Ok
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruno" <rv4(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range
>
> Hello Listers
> I have a Lycoming 0-320 E2D in my RV-4 and ever
since
> I got the a/c , the oil temperature has been hovering between 110 (Cold
day
> 25 F)and 150
> (very hot day 80 F.)
> My first reaction was to check the oil temp gauge
> which I found defective and I since replaced it with one from Van's. I
> thought my problem will be over but not to avail.Next was to installed a
> back plate to the back of the oil cooler.It did improve the oil temp a bit
> but not by much.
>
> I'm wondering what I can do next short of plugging
the
> air intake.
>
> I have a Positech (7 rows) oil cooler on the a/c.
>
> So what have you guys (specially the ones flying in cold climat) done to
get
> the proper oil temp?
>
> Are there any oil cooler better than others??
>
> What is your normal oil temperature range?
>
> What are the potential problems I can expect? ( I know of a few but it
will
> be nice to know them all if possible.)
>
> Thank you
>
> Bruno Dionne
> C-GDBH RV-4
> rv4(at)videotron.ca
>
> P.S # You may reply OFF list if you wish.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu clamav-milter |
version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org
For what its worth.....
I've been trying a few acronyms to use as a quick checklist before t/o to
make sure I didn't miss the essential items. Here's what I use:
FFTC, GUMP
F - Fuel (pump on if appl, select appr tank)
F - Flaps
T - Trim
C - Canopy
We all know GUMP.
Its easy to remember FTC anyway so just add an F to it or don't and use the
G in gump to remember. I find I use it on final as well, especially during
touch and go's and the ever so dreaded go-around(trim/flaps).
Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
140 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <bj034(at)lafn.org>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight on opie.wvnet.edu clamav-milter
version 0.80j on zoot.lafn.org
>
>
> I hate to admit it but in the early days of flying my -6, I managed to
> leave the slider unlatched 3 times! The first time I noticed it at about
> 7000 feet (because of the cold draft on the back of my neck). Since I
> had so much altitude, I felt it was safer to try to close it than to
> wait until I landed. In cruise you can forget it, it won't move, but if
> you slow down and put the flaps down it closes pretty easily by
> squeezing the lower front corner and the roll bar together on both
> sides.. Of course, you have to let go of the stick to do it, so it's a
> good idea to get the airplane trimmed for that speed.
> The second time I noticed it on takeoff and just landed to close it. The
> third time it happened it was a non-issue since I knew exactly what to do!
> Now, before taking the runway, I automatically reach up and check the
> handle. Now if I can just find a way to remember to turn on the fuel pump!
>
> Dave -6 So Cal
> EAA Technical Counselor and Flight Advisor
>
>>Recommendation it this happens to you:
>>
>>1. Fly the aircraft
>>2. Don't panic, land when you can, safely.
>>3. Do not see how far you can go with the canopy open, slows you down,
>>the
>>suction is tremendous and could suck off the canopy with out the forward
>>(for the slider) latch locked.
>>
>>Bob
>>RV6 NightFighter
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range |
Hi Bruno
If you get any replies off list to this problem, would you send a copy to
me? I have an RV4 with low oil temps just like yours. I recently installed an
oil filter and vernatherm with no change in temps. Mahlon on the Lycoming Yahoo
group told me I needed to remove the spring and cap under the 1" plug so
the oil would be controlled by the vernatherm and not the way it use to be when
I had the screen filter. Did this and then the oil temps only came up about 5
degrees. Still need to do something to get them up. I did check my sender
and gage by immersing in boiling water and found my gage is correct. Next cowl
removal, I'm going to stuff a rag in my cooler in case some oil is still
passing through it. I perviously had blocked 80% of it off and no difference.
I
have concluded that the RV4 with my _0-320_ (mailto:0-320-A@Bjust) won't
generate enough heat to warm up the oil. All my other temps are fine. Sure would
appreciate anything you learn and what any one else knows about how to
correct this problem.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Team RV....A Veterans Day Salute |
Great work Mike. You guys are outstanding. I did need the kleenex. Thanks for
all the good things ya'll are doing.
Regards,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
steve zicree wrote:
>
> One more thing on the AOA issue. I'm guessing most of you have read it, but
> to those who haven't, get a copy of Stick and Rudder. It's an awesome book
> on the subject.
For those wanting additional info concerning AOA issues, stall warnings,
etc, etc, look in the list archives. This subject gets thoroughly hashed
and rehashed every couple of years or so. :-)
Just search "AOA" or "LRI" and sit back for an extended reading session.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | RE: inverted oil |
Hi All-
To my knowledge, Doug doesn't maintain a web site. He can be reached at
the following addresses when he's not off flying an airshow or mowing the
airport.
BTW, his slobber pot is also flat instead of cylindrical. In theory, it
should precipitate more oil vapor due to the greater radiating surface area
per cubic volume of slobber pot. It also means the pot bolts directly to
the firewall instead of using giant hose clamps to hang it. Any of the
systems can use the vacuum pump pad (a la B&C) for improved oil pick up
performance, unless of course you have an IO 360-A1B6D. You may wonder how
I know that....
Doug Dodge
Acro Specialties
614 Fouth River Rd
Bay City, MI 48708
ddodge(at)concentric.net
989-893-0801
got a link?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Hi All-
>
> For those interested in inverted oil, check out Doug Dodge at Acro
> Specialties up in Bay City, MI. His system is functionally the same as
the
> other systems while avoiding the sticking valve of the Christen system.
> The cost is a fraction of the Christen and slightly less than the RAven
> system (as of my purchase), but included the machining and repainting the
> sump.
>
> FWIW
>
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Dean,
I strongly Agree with you.
We have JimFrantz'a Proprietary Software System's Pro in our RV-8A. We
mounted it, at Jim's suggestion, in a holder on top of the glareshield in
the left hand corner AND hard wired the audio warning to the pilot's headset
jack.
For those of you who have had an in-flight emergency, you know how busy it
gets. You are focused on the problem at hand - the audio warning is my
insurance and it works.
Regarding comments that there are safety cops who will tell you what to do -
I won't argue. But like most of us I also usually dismiss them. Remembering
that the FAA is more interested in the public than us - Safety is our
responsiblitity. WE CAN MITIGATE the Risks - If we want to. Since I'd hate
to see my family suffer my loss (probably few others would be
concerned-short of more FAA attention) I under took a fairly extensive
research effort on what we could do to mitigate the risks, we all face.
Hence the AOA was on the top of my list.
Good building and safe flying,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A (300+ hrs)
>From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: AOA
>Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 00:52:14 -0500
>
>
>
>Since I've been spending most of my time building and so far only have
>limited flight time in RVs (~4 hours) I'm not speaking from an abundance of
>my own experience. However, from what flying I have done and from having
>known people who flew thier RVs ALOT and still PERISHED due to stall spin
>accidents, I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into
>the audio system) should be high on every RVers need list. The issue as I
>see it has to do with the power and speed of the airplane and the ease with
>which the RVs will do steeply banked turns and still have seemingly
>unlimited excess power. To me this seems like it could have the effect of
>making the pilot complacent and possibly get him into trouble. I have
>heard many an RV driver talk about yanking and banking HARD when LOW in the
>pattern in order to bleed off more speed for landing. Remember your basic
>pilot training folks:"the more you bank the faster the stall speed becomes
>until it goes to infinity"!
>. This also applies to airplanes with "adequate" power like the RV! Just
>because we have so much power doesn't mean we can defy the laws of physics.
> We can NOT just crank it over and hold it there without consequences!
>An AOA indicator in the cockpit would certianly help show us how close to
>the ragged edge we are pushing it. For those busy times in the pattern
>where we might not be looking heads down at the indicator.....the warning
>tone should help remind us not to press the envelope any further. Two
>people I knew might still be alive today if they had these features in the
>cockpit! Just IMHO.
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>Wiring and fuel system
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mts.net> |
> I think you're dead-on accurate here. I've no experience in an RV, but
> have
> seen ridiculously steep-banked RV's in the pattern.
Bank angle by itself has no impact on stall speed whatsoever. This is one of
the bigest misconceptions in flying. The textbooks all imply that stall
speed increases with angle of bank. Not true! Stall speed increases as the
load factor increases, period. If you aren't pulling any Gs then you can be
in a 90 degree bank and your stall speed is the same as it is in straight
and level flight. I often find myself with 60-80 degrees of bank in the
pattern, since RVs roll so nicely, but you'd better believe I'm not pulling
any significant Gs at the time and my airspeed is 20 knots above stall. On
the other hand, you can be in a nice "safe" 30 degree bank, or straight and
level, but if you pull hard at low airspeed, you will get an accellerated
stall.
What the textbooks usually say is that as you increase your angle of bank,
the amount of G necessary to hold altitude in the turn increases, until at
90 degrees of bank you need to pull infinite Gs to hold altitude. But even
that goes out the window when you start getting into high power-to-weight
ratio aircraft. An aerobatic aircraft in level, knife edge flight is
obviously banked at 90 degrees yet only seeing 1 G and still holding level
flight. Or you can be in a 70 degree base-to-final turn but letting the
altitude bleed off and keeping the airspeed up and the Gs low and be nowhere
near the stall.
I think the bottom line for pattern work is: don't pull high Gs at low
altitude, regardless of the attitude of the airplane. Always keep an eye on
your airspeed, and if you need to make a steep banked turn, keep the nose
down, the Gs low and the airspeed up.
As for angle of attack indicators, I don't have one but they seem like a
good idea IF you want to push the edge of the envelope at low altitude. The
alternative is to just stay away from the edge.
Curt
RV-6 C-GACR
240 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warnings, AOAs, pucker factor... |
> For example, the thing that's gotten my attention frequently as a
passenger in RVs is the >60 to 90 degree, (insert your G reading here) bank
turns in the pattern or while flying over >some point over the ground.
Seems RV dudes love to rack it up tight while relatively >close to the
ground with little regard for entry/exit airspeed or G's being pulled. I
ain't >been in one that's stalled yet but my military training has had my
sphincter tighten up on >me more than once and I get kind of white knuckled
while considering taking the stick >away from the pilot and whacking them on
the noggin' like some off the IPs loved to do.
I think Lucky is right on the mark with this. I know four people killed in
exactly this way, meaning that two pilots killed themselves and both took
another pilot with them. When you whip stall at low altitude it could be
possible to fly out of it, but most of us will be overwhelmed by the
experience to the point that the ground will give us a dope slap before we
figure out what happened. One of these accidents was an RV6 the other was a
Yak. The Yak is designed to fly out of a stall and easily could have, the
pilot had well more then 1000 feet of altitude. My friend (20,000+ hours
and airshow pilot) flying his other plane observed the Yak held in the stall
until impact with the ground. Since the pilots were dead we can't say what
happened for sure. The NTSB could not identify a mechanical deficiency and
both accidents were observed to result from an accelerated stall caused by
cranking the plane around in a high bank angle.
I'd really prefer to hear "angle angle push" before the break if I found
myself in this situation.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
Subject: | re: Stall Warnings, etc |
The LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in my RV6A was my primary reference when
(as you may recall) I posted about an incident where my static tube was
pinched and I lost ASI, VSI, ALT, upon take off in a busy traffic pattern
and decided to fly on rather than get back in the pattern without those
indicators...my LRI was critical for landing, and is ALWAYS, the
indicator I refer to on rotation and while doing pattern turns, etc.
I may not be old, fat, and have 50,000-hours in WW2, but I know what's
important !!
John at Salida, CO
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range |
I've got an O-320-E2A with high compresion pistons. It runs 140-160 unless
doing a lot of powered slow flight. I lean the heck out of it, have a
working vernitherm, spin on oil filter on the accy section and have an oil
cooler on the firewall.
It's (knock on wood) doing just fine after about 680 hrs of my overhaul in
1999. On the other hand, most of the -360 series installations I'm familiar
with generally seem to run hotter. Bottom line - for some reason - I
believe the -320 series just runs cooler.
Bryan Jones
>From: PGLong(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: Rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Lycoming 0-320 Oil Temperature Range
>Date: Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:18:28 EST
>
>
>Hi Bruno
>
>If you get any replies off list to this problem, would you send a copy to
>me? I have an RV4 with low oil temps just like yours. I recently installed
>an
>oil filter and vernatherm with no change in temps. Mahlon on the Lycoming
>Yahoo
> group told me I needed to remove the spring and cap under the 1" plug so
>the oil would be controlled by the vernatherm and not the way it use to be
>when
>I had the screen filter. Did this and then the oil temps only came up about
>5
> degrees. Still need to do something to get them up. I did check my sender
>and gage by immersing in boiling water and found my gage is correct. Next
>cowl
>removal, I'm going to stuff a rag in my cooler in case some oil is still
>passing through it. I perviously had blocked 80% of it off and no
>difference. I
>have concluded that the RV4 with my _0-320_ (mailto:0-320-A@Bjust) won't
>generate enough heat to warm up the oil. All my other temps are fine. Sure
>would
>appreciate anything you learn and what any one else knows about how to
>correct this problem.
>
>Pat Long
>PGLong(at)aol.com
>N120PL
>RV4
>Bay City, Michigan
>3CM
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: re: Stall Warnings, etc |
Here is my 2 cents on all this with no flame intended to those who want the
stall devices.
In VFR weather, the entire panel should not be needed in order to make a
good landing. I used to race cars, road racing requires a good feel through
your hands and rear end while doing 4 wheel drifts around the course. For
me this has transferred over to flying, I can tell you what the plane is
doing by sound and vibration. I once forgot to remove the pitot tube cover,
continued on and landed at my destination and landed by feel, it was a non
issue. If you can not feel what your plane is doing then you had better
rely on some sort of stall warning device I guess. This also reminds me of
people in other posts who have commented about how fast the RV's pick up
speed. Well yea, for me they do until about 210 MPH then there are all
sorts of "signs" that let you know things are changing. Some people have
commented on hitting 260 MPH while looking at a map!!!! My question is ho
can you not feel/hear that? Being in tune with your plane is
vital........of course VFR conditions only.
>
>The LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in my RV6A was my primary reference when
>(as you may recall) I posted about an incident where my static tube was
>pinched and I lost ASI, VSI, ALT, upon take off in a busy traffic pattern
>and decided to fly on rather than get back in the pattern without those
>indicators...my LRI was critical for landing, and is ALWAYS, the
>indicator I refer to on rotation and while doing pattern turns, etc.
>
>I may not be old, fat, and have 50,000-hours in WW2, but I know what's
>important !!
>
>John at Salida, CO
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net> |
Me too ... thanks.
Jerry Grimmonpre O-320 RV7A
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Prop cable
>
> If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also.
>
> Thanks,
> John Furey
> O-320 RV6A
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
First and foremost, Van doesn't recommend opening a Tip-Up
canopy in flight. Nor do I recommend doing it unless the test
conditions are limited....
But in the interest of knowing all I can know
about my plane, I've done a fair amount of testing for the
open Tip Up canopy condition, including opening it in flight,
and taking off & landing with it open. Except for limiting
the cruise speed while it's open, there has never been any
adverse effects. The MAX airspeed I've tested to with it open,
is 110 Knots.
Because of the airflow over it, the canopy wants to open up about
3". The canopy is a lifting surface. Because of that fact, it's
difficult to close it in flight, UNLESS the airspeed is reduced AND
the angle of attack is increased: to close it, slow down to approach
speed (even put the flaps down) get the nose up a bit, and it'll
close easily.
Believe it or not, the canopy can be used to control the pitch of
the aircraft while in flight, and can be used in an emergency if the
elevator controls were compromised. Slow the aircraft down WITHOUT
PUTTING ON THE FLAPS. Use the trim to obtain level flight. Slowly
open the canopy, and re-trim (you'll need more UP trim).
Once trimmed, let go of the stick. Pulling the canopy down will
cause the nose to pitch up. Pushing it further open will cause the
nose to pitch down.
I've even demonstrated landing using only this method for pitch
control (fast landing on a very long runway, with my hand near the
stick!).
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
From: Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
A friend who has an RV6A tilt-up canopy took off with it cracked open.
It was a hot day and he forgot to close it. He said that after he
took
off it would come to within about 2 inches of closing but that he
couldn't pull it shut. Nor could he push it outward (hoping the wind
would slam it down so he could latch it. He said it took an
incredible
combined effort of he and his wife to pull the canopy down and latch
it. Dunno about the sliders. I triple check the canopy on my RV-4!
923te wrote:
>
>I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as
I
>might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway
end
>for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
>Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by
itself. I
>believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is
only open
>a few inches.
>What are the groups experiences?
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
>Enjoy your copy of "Stick and Rudder".
That is an excellent book. Sure explains a lot
of things I should have known 25+ years ago!
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Attaching the emp. tips |
When attaching the emp. tips, do you use cloth, or just micro-ballons (West Systems)?
I have a couple of weeks until the wings arrive, so I thought I'd get these done.
My fit is really pretty good. There is a small line which could be filled if I
wanted to, just wanted to get the list's concensus.
Also, is there a preference on the type of foam used to seal the ends?
Something easily shaped and sanded, particularly sanded, would be nice.
Ahhh - one more thing. When sanding, how do you protect the skins where you don't
want scratches.
I see all these RV's where there is fiberglass work done and no apparent damage/scratches
on the uhh non-fiberglassed areas.
I have used West systems before (boating) .
Thanks,
Dave
David Fenstermacher
dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Don Mack" <don(at)dmack.net> |
One of our lines of business makes aircraft cables. I haven't ordered a cable from
Van's in a while (mine were all custom made for free ;), but I believe the
cables that come with Van's kits may be ours.
We have setup a web site to customer order kit aircraft cables.
https://shop.tuthill.com/Cablecraft/
Don Mack RV-6A finishing
don(at)dmack.net | www.dmack.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
Subject: | CH Products Control Stick Switches Electrical Specifications |
There has been discussions about the CH Products control sticks (http://www.chproducts.com/retail/aircraft.html) on the newsgroups lately. I have two of them, but there was a question about what the switch ratings were. I contacted Kevin Williamson of CH
Products and he was kind enough to supply me with a set of sample switches (from
Omron) and the part numbers thereof.
I downloaded the complete data sheet from the web, reviewed the specifications
and then called the Omron factory representative. There are a few minor errors
in the datasheet available on the web, so the rep emailed me the revised (corrected)
sheets. I
also discussed with him the specifications listed and got clarification, although
it turned out that when I received the revised data sheets, the specification
is very clear now.
The bottom line is that the electrical rating for all three different switches
is: 1-50mA, at 5-24V.
The explanation for the ratings is:
1. The lower values (1 mA at 5V) are to make sure that the switch sees enough energy
when switching to keep the contacts clean. Any lower values would not guarantee
that the contacts will always make proper contact over the life of the
switch. If for
some reason the load being switched is too low, a resistor could be added in parallel
with the load to increase the current to at least 1 mA.
2. The higher values (50 mA at 24V) are the maximum values that should be switched
that will not damage the switch. Switching any higher loads will risk damaging
the contacts - either welding them shut or warping them or causing excessive
arc damage - and
will certainly shorten the life of the switch.
3. These ratings are for a resistive load, so if they are to be used with a relay
or motor the contacts MUST be protected with a diode or other type of snubber
network!
Of course, the manufacturer always has a margin in the design so if one chooses
to switch 55mA at 14V (for instance), the switch will probably still have a reasonable
life. However, pushing them to 100 mA or more will definitely shorten
the life and may
result in a catastrophic failure at some point.
These switches are rated for a lot of actuations so their use in an airplane should
be no problem. The hat switches are rated for 300,000 operations (minimum),
the switches on the top face of the stick are rated for 100,000 operations
(minimum) and the
trigger (typically used for push-to-talk) is rated for 1,000,000 operations (minimum).
To put these numbers in perspective, let's assume you make one flight every day
for ten years. For each flight you could use the hat switch to trim the airplane
82 times in each direction, you could actuate the flaps (assuming that is
what you use the two
gray switches on the top of the stick for) 27 times each up and down and you could
push-to-talk 274 times.
I am satisfied that the switches used are as robust as you will find and the ratings
are adequate for the task. Just don't go overboard on what you connect
direct to the switches and your CH Products control stick will have a long and
happy life!
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: re: Stall Warnings, etc |
Well, looking back at the beginning of all this, the reason that some (not
all, just some) aircraft have stall warning systems is that the
builder/manufacturer of the aircraft, or more usually the agency certifying
the airworthiness of the aircraft, decided (normally after flight testing)
that the natural indications associated with high angle of attack flight in
the aircraft were not sufficient to provide adequate warning of an impending
stall to an average (for certification purposes) pilot.
The classic warning indication typical of most light aircraft is buffeting
of the aft fuselage and tail surface or the flight controls as separated
flow from the inboard sections of the wing strikes the aft fuselage and tail
surfaces of the aircraft. Due to design considerations such as high mounted
tailplanes (a 'Tee' tail), wing sweep, airfoil choice, aspect ratio, amount
of wing incidence "washout", etc. there are some aircraft that have little
or no warning of an impending stall that might lead to a departure from
controlled flight. In some cases the consequences of a stall may be such
that a stall has to be avoided at all costs so a "belt and suspenders"
approach is used to avoid this. Some large aircraft with high tails and
swept wings when stalled have insufficient nose down pitch capability to
unstall themselves, a mushing descent into the ground usually results. Thus
stall warning "stick shakers" and even "stick pushers" are used in most
higher performance aircraft such as jets and airliners.
My impression of the two RV series aircraft I have flown regularly into
practice stalls (RV-3, RV-6A) is that they do not provide much advance
warning in the form of airframe/stick buffet when flown into the usual 1 G,
slow deceleration, level flight, power on stall. There are lots of other
indications in form of pitch attitude, control feel, etc. that say a stall
is imminent but the "buffet symptom" is not there and rather suddenly the
aircraft "breaks" with one wing or the other dropping. A quick release of
back pressure of course reduces the angle of attack and the aircraft is
flying again. Pulling hard in a "wind-up turn" maneuver to induce a high-G,
aka "accelerated stall", situation in my experience provides reasonable
pre-stall buffet in an RV series aircraft due most likely to the higher
speed of the airflow striking the aft fuselage and tail. Recovery is again
almost instantaneous with the release of back-pressure.
In the homebuilt aircraft sector, everyone gets to be their own test pilot
and certifying authority. So the bottom line is test your own personal RV's
stall characteristics and if you don't consider the aircraft's inherent
stall warning characteristics are adequate for "YOUR" own personal purposes,
install whatever AOA gauges, warnings lights, tones, horns, etc. you feel
will do the job. I saw/see no need to install such devices in my two RVs.
Others will certainly see things differently.
In my own flying, I expect I would be considered somewhat aggressive in the
angle of bank I use in the traffic pattern. In this, I feel I am making an
appropriate balance between the danger and consequences of stalling the
aircraft (which I feel to be minimal) versus the increased probability of
collision due to loss of look-out capability in an extended (in terms of
time spent in a banked attitude) turn which are serious and quite likely to
be fatal.
In my own view, it is those who fly shallow banked, poorly co-ordinated,
turns close to the ground who are in danger of the stall, loss-of-control,
accident. Yes, a steeply bank aircraft will "stall" at a higher speed but
will "unstall" almost instantaneously when/if the back pressure being held
for the turn is released. The aircraft's wings can then be levelled through
normal use of the ailerons and a climb attitude easily achieved. The "safe &
careful" guy turning final onspeed with 10-15 deg of bank has no reserve of
airspeed should he stall, has to get the nose well down to gain airspeed (a
highly unnatural action when down low) and then has to be quite careful
about the use of the ailerons when levelling the wings before raising the
nose to start climbing. There are also aerodynamic factors such as downwash
from the wing which can reduce the nose up stick authority in a steep turn
in some aircraft such that there is insufficient control effect to stall the
aircraft compared to wings level flight (however RVs have highly effective
elevators and this effect is not noticeable in my RV experience).
Not many aircraft will enter and stabilize in a spin from 500 feet AGL, it
is usually just a quick 90 deg to 180 deg turn before the aircraft hits the
ground well nose down; thus multi-turn spin and spin recovery practice at
altitude is mostly useless in the traffic pattern, IMHO. Time spent in
recognizing and countering an impending departure from controlled flight is
far more useful in avoiding traffic pattern accidents in my view.
Finally, here is a link to an excellent online aerodynamics text:
http://www.av8n.com/how/ . This is an really outstanding, pilot-oriented,
description of classical low speed aerodynamics and well worth having a
browse through when looking for explanations of why an aircraft stalls, the
difference between sustained banked flight vs. transient conditions, etc.
Jim Oke
Wpg, MB
RV-3, RV-6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: re: Stall Warnings, etc
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Here is my 2 cents on all this with no flame intended to those who want
> the
> stall devices.
>
> In VFR weather, the entire panel should not be needed in order to make a
> good landing. I used to race cars, road racing requires a good feel
> through
> your hands and rear end while doing 4 wheel drifts around the course. For
> me this has transferred over to flying, I can tell you what the plane is
> doing by sound and vibration. I once forgot to remove the pitot tube
> cover,
> continued on and landed at my destination and landed by feel, it was a non
> issue. If you can not feel what your plane is doing then you had better
> rely on some sort of stall warning device I guess. This also reminds me of
> people in other posts who have commented about how fast the RV's pick up
> speed. Well yea, for me they do until about 210 MPH then there are all
> sorts of "signs" that let you know things are changing. Some people have
> commented on hitting 260 MPH while looking at a map!!!! My question is ho
> can you not feel/hear that? Being in tune with your plane is
> vital........of course VFR conditions only.
>
>
>>
>>The LRI (Lift Reserve Indicator) in my RV6A was my primary reference when
>>(as you may recall) I posted about an incident where my static tube was
>>pinched and I lost ASI, VSI, ALT, upon take off in a busy traffic pattern
>>and decided to fly on rather than get back in the pattern without those
>>indicators...my LRI was critical for landing, and is ALWAYS, the
>>indicator I refer to on rotation and while doing pattern turns, etc.
>>
>>I may not be old, fat, and have 50,000-hours in WW2, but I know what's
>>important !!
>>
>>John at Salida, CO
>>
>>
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com> |
yes please. I don't have the issue you are referring. I'd appreciate the
diagram very much.
thanks for the reply. Very helpful.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "William Davis" <rvpilot(at)access4less.net> |
Guys,
In my tools for sale post a few days ago, I forgot to mention a few goodies that
are included.
Pneumatic 90 Deg. angle drill (worn but still works good)
Big collection of 1/4-28 drill bits
Metal shrinker
Rivit cutter
Rivit fan spacing tool
Instrument panel hole punch, does both 3 1/8 & 2 1/4 holes
skin flanging tool
Imperial 1/4" tubing bender
Ridgid 3/8" tubing bender
Hose mandrels for making up Aeroquip hoses
Toggle clamps
Bill Davis
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning (opinionated) |
> What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly experienced
> pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of a
> safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really
> gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may
> dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase
the
> safety level for those who do not "fly enough".
Jim said "George has a point".
George says -
Thanks gentleman for an interesting discussion, however I think that I may
not have made my point.
My point is that no matter how good you are (or think you are) there are
situations for which you cannot fully train yourself and that is when a
inexpensive safety device such as stall warning or AOA may be instrumental
in a successful conclusion to your flight.
One respected pilot wrote, RV's give a (marginal) buffet warning before the
stall and with proficiency it is easily recognized, and I agree, but my
point is would you recognize this pre-stall buffet if the aircraft was
shaking violently because the prop spinner is coming off, and the airspeed
indicator is just a blur, I think not!
Another experienced pilot points out that we can take off and fly quite
safely with the pitot tube plugged by wasps, and I agree, it is actually
quite easy to fly without airspeed. Everyone should practice flying with the
airspeed indicator covered to cater for this non-normal procedure. But step
this non-normal up one level to a true emergency, a flock of geese took out
your airspeed plus one, with no boarding pass, came through the canopy
breaking your glasses and shaking you up, your aircraft is now vibrating,
has more drag, lots of noise and you are having trouble seeing - now will a
inexpensive safety device be helpful??
And from the tone of some posts I think that some respected pilots have
fallen into the same trap as myself.
When I was 19 and had 300 hours I could make perfect landings and really did
know everything there was about flying, except for one puzzling thing, why
did VFR pilots fly into IFR conditions. Not flying enough or were they just
not as good as me?
By the time I was in my thirties I was a 737 Captain and our company was
giving us quarterly recurrent simulator training.
I booked extra time and practiced every emergency the simulator could
reproduce, manual reversions, engine fires, single engine go-around, they
were all a piece of cake. My attitude was "show me something I can't
handle". Of course that was before we knew about the rudder hard over
problem. (sidebar - later when we went to bi-annual two day training
sessions they were more humbling - there really is a difference between
practicing quarterly or bi-annually).
Now as a retired 747 captain I realize that some of my attitudes were
downright dumb because I was only looking at my own narrow little envelope.
I now consider myself a student pilot again.
To reiterate, my point is this, it really doesn't matter if one adds or
leaves out any safety device, that is for each individual builder to decide.
However in my opinion, more experienced pilots should not belittle any
device that may be beneficial to those with less experience!
George in Langley
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Michael Robbins" <robbinsrv8(at)msn.com> |
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: AOA
. . I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio
system) should
be high on every RVers need list. . . . the ease with which the RVs will do steeply
banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power.
Such a thing happened to me early in my RV flying. Pulled hard low in the pattern
to avoid conflicting traffic and noticed all the green, yellow and red LEDs
on my AOA suddenly illuminate. I immediately unloaded and never got a buffet.
Just because I've been in this flying game for 44 years now doesn't mean I
still can't do something stupid and do myself in. My AOA and the controversial
fuselage strakes (for RV-8s only) were worth every penny I paid for them. Send
me a message if you 8 guys want to know more about the strakes. They do make
a difference.
Mike Robbins
RV-8 N88MJ 480 hours
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Fenstermacher" <dfenstermacher(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning (opinionated) |
Well said.
I have sorta stayed out of this one.... but
When I was in the military, I was flying the T-37 simulator.
I had a primary emergency (don't remember what the IP threw at me) that I
took care of and happilly landed with the gear horn bleeping in my helmet.
What happened? - He also threw in a hydraulic failure. The gear handle was
down, but I was so complacent that I had the emergency taken care of.
Well, you know. I thought I was home free.
What a sobering moment. I was busy and even with the gear horn, I managed
to ignore that I had no gear. I sat in the sim for 10 minutes. All I
could hear was my breathing - the IP had long since left.
I always think of this when I get to feeling too good about my flying
abilities. When it hits the fan, it has a habit of piling up on your butt.
> [Original Message]
> From: GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
> To:
> Date: 11/11/2004 11:25:56 PM
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Stall warning (opinionated)
>
>
> > What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly
experienced
> > pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition
of a
> > safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really
> > gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may
> > dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase
> the
> > safety level for those who do not "fly enough".
>
> Jim said "George has a point".
>
> George says -
>
> Thanks gentleman for an interesting discussion, however I think that I may
> not have made my point.
>
> My point is that no matter how good you are (or think you are) there are
> situations for which you cannot fully train yourself and that is when a
> inexpensive safety device such as stall warning or AOA may be instrumental
> in a successful conclusion to your flight.
>
> One respected pilot wrote, RV's give a (marginal) buffet warning before
the
> stall and with proficiency it is easily recognized, and I agree, but my
> point is would you recognize this pre-stall buffet if the aircraft was
> shaking violently because the prop spinner is coming off, and the airspeed
> indicator is just a blur, I think not!
>
> Another experienced pilot points out that we can take off and fly quite
> safely with the pitot tube plugged by wasps, and I agree, it is actually
> quite easy to fly without airspeed. Everyone should practice flying with
the
> airspeed indicator covered to cater for this non-normal procedure. But
step
> this non-normal up one level to a true emergency, a flock of geese took
out
> your airspeed plus one, with no boarding pass, came through the canopy
> breaking your glasses and shaking you up, your aircraft is now vibrating,
> has more drag, lots of noise and you are having trouble seeing - now will
a
> inexpensive safety device be helpful??
>
> And from the tone of some posts I think that some respected pilots have
> fallen into the same trap as myself.
> When I was 19 and had 300 hours I could make perfect landings and really
did
> know everything there was about flying, except for one puzzling thing, why
> did VFR pilots fly into IFR conditions. Not flying enough or were they
just
> not as good as me?
>
> By the time I was in my thirties I was a 737 Captain and our company was
> giving us quarterly recurrent simulator training.
> I booked extra time and practiced every emergency the simulator could
> reproduce, manual reversions, engine fires, single engine go-around, they
> were all a piece of cake. My attitude was "show me something I can't
> handle". Of course that was before we knew about the rudder hard over
> problem. (sidebar - later when we went to bi-annual two day training
> sessions they were more humbling - there really is a difference between
> practicing quarterly or bi-annually).
> Now as a retired 747 captain I realize that some of my attitudes were
> downright dumb because I was only looking at my own narrow little
envelope.
> I now consider myself a student pilot again.
>
> To reiterate, my point is this, it really doesn't matter if one adds or
> leaves out any safety device, that is for each individual builder to
decide.
> However in my opinion, more experienced pilots should not belittle any
> device that may be beneficial to those with less experience!
>
> George in Langley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
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From: | dag adamson <dag_adamson(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Wiring for 2 Comms - no audio panel |
Hello-
I have decided to install a second com in my Rv-8. I just have an intercom - no
audio panel switching unit. I thought someone told me that there were two
pins I needed to toggle between the two comms.
Is it:
(1) push to talk (which is ultimately grounded when you press the key)
and
(2) mike high?
Thanks
Dag
*****************
Dag Adamson
617 513 1182
Cambridge, MA
Denver, CO
*****************
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Wiring for 2 Comms - no audio panel |
dag adamson wrote:
>
>Hello-
>
>I have decided to install a second com in my Rv-8. I just have an intercom -
no audio panel switching unit. I thought someone told me that there were two
pins I needed to toggle between the two comms.
>
>Is it:
>
>(1) push to talk (which is ultimately grounded when you press the key)
>and
>(2) mike AUDIO (not high?)
>
And (3) headphone audio.
Can be done with one 3pdt switch.
Linn
>
>Thanks
>Dag
>
>
>*****************
>Dag Adamson
>617 513 1182
>Cambridge, MA
>Denver, CO
>*****************
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DejaVu" <wvu(at)mail.ameritel.net> |
Subject: | Re: Canopy Open In FLight |
Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff and
stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It
closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the
other latch the handle.
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
> I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
> might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
> for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
> Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
I
> believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
open
> a few inches.
> What are the groups experiences?
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
I'd like to hear about why you put strakes on and what their effect is.
Michael Robbins wrote:
>
>From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
>Subject: RV-List: AOA
>
>
> . . I really think that than AOA indicator (with a warning tone into the audio
system) should
>be high on every RVers need list. . . . the ease with which the RVs will do steeply
>banked turns and still have seemingly unlimited excess power.
>
>
>Such a thing happened to me early in my RV flying. Pulled hard low in the pattern
to avoid conflicting traffic and noticed all the green, yellow and red LEDs
on my AOA suddenly illuminate. I immediately unloaded and never got a buffet.
Just because I've been in this flying game for 44 years now doesn't mean I
still can't do something stupid and do myself in. My AOA and the controversial
fuselage strakes (for RV-8s only) were worth every penny I paid for them.
Send me a message if you 8 guys want to know more about the strakes. They do
make a difference.
>
>Mike Robbins
>RV-8 N88MJ 480 hours
>Seattle
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning (opinionated) |
George,
Thanks very much for the sensible comments from an experienced pilot. I've
happily used the list search engine for the last couple of years and found
it very helpful in getting answers to technical questions during the
construction of my 4, but have not participated in the email side of things.
Recently, I became a full fledged member of the list and have enjoyed the
daily emails, but am dismayed by the typical macho cr*p that gets spread
around on here. Whenever topics concerning safety come up, it's always the
same old b.s: "I'm such a great pilot that I don't need it. Why, when I
sarted flying they didn't even have planes. We'd have to rope and saddle a
pteradactyl!" or some such bull. It gets real old. When I first started
flying, one of these old cowboys told me that wearing seatbelts while at
altitude was not required and of no use. That very same day, while flying
around with my girlfriend, the right door flew open while doing a steep
turn. I am absolutely certain that she would have fallen to her death had I
taken that old blowhard's advice. Do you think he would have gone with me to
explain things to her parents? The bottom line is that you don't equip a
plane with safety equipment for when things go right, it's for when things
go wrong -- and things do go wrong. If someone wants to try to make their
plane goof proof, I say more power to 'em.
Steve Zicree
P.S. I remember watching my dad cut the seatbelts out of a brand new car
when I was a boy -- called em newfangled cr*p.
----- Original Message -----
From: "GMC" <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Stall warning (opinionated)
>
>
> > What really amazes me about this discussion is how many highly
experienced
> > pilots with two lifetimes of experience tend to belittle the addition of
a
> > safety device that can be added for as little as twenty dollars. Really
> > gentlemen, there are low time pilots reading your comments and you may
> > dissuade them from having an item in their aircraft that "may" increase
> the
> > safety level for those who do not "fly enough".
>
> Jim said "George has a point".
>
> George says -
>
> Thanks gentleman for an interesting discussion, however I think that I may
> not have made my point.
>
> My point is that no matter how good you are (or think you are) there are
> situations for which you cannot fully train yourself and that is when a
> inexpensive safety device such as stall warning or AOA may be instrumental
> in a successful conclusion to your flight.
>
> One respected pilot wrote, RV's give a (marginal) buffet warning before
the
> stall and with proficiency it is easily recognized, and I agree, but my
> point is would you recognize this pre-stall buffet if the aircraft was
> shaking violently because the prop spinner is coming off, and the airspeed
> indicator is just a blur, I think not!
>
> Another experienced pilot points out that we can take off and fly quite
> safely with the pitot tube plugged by wasps, and I agree, it is actually
> quite easy to fly without airspeed. Everyone should practice flying with
the
> airspeed indicator covered to cater for this non-normal procedure. But
step
> this non-normal up one level to a true emergency, a flock of geese took
out
> your airspeed plus one, with no boarding pass, came through the canopy
> breaking your glasses and shaking you up, your aircraft is now vibrating,
> has more drag, lots of noise and you are having trouble seeing - now will
a
> inexpensive safety device be helpful??
>
> And from the tone of some posts I think that some respected pilots have
> fallen into the same trap as myself.
> When I was 19 and had 300 hours I could make perfect landings and really
did
> know everything there was about flying, except for one puzzling thing, why
> did VFR pilots fly into IFR conditions. Not flying enough or were they
just
> not as good as me?
>
> By the time I was in my thirties I was a 737 Captain and our company was
> giving us quarterly recurrent simulator training.
> I booked extra time and practiced every emergency the simulator could
> reproduce, manual reversions, engine fires, single engine go-around, they
> were all a piece of cake. My attitude was "show me something I can't
> handle". Of course that was before we knew about the rudder hard over
> problem. (sidebar - later when we went to bi-annual two day training
> sessions they were more humbling - there really is a difference between
> practicing quarterly or bi-annually).
> Now as a retired 747 captain I realize that some of my attitudes were
> downright dumb because I was only looking at my own narrow little
envelope.
> I now consider myself a student pilot again.
>
> To reiterate, my point is this, it really doesn't matter if one adds or
> leaves out any safety device, that is for each individual builder to
decide.
> However in my opinion, more experienced pilots should not belittle any
> device that may be beneficial to those with less experience!
>
> George in Langley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky while
you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your
RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach
45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull
and pull and pull...
Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff and
stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It
closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the
other latch the handle.
----- Original Message -----
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
> I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
> might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
> for fear of it opening further un flight.
>
> Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
I
> believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
open
> a few inches.
> What are the groups experiences?
>
>
> ---
>
>
---
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Todd Bartrim" <haywire(at)telus.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc. |
I've tried to resist getting into this due to a busy schedule, but....
I installed the PSS-AOA Sport when building, then after completion added the
Dynon and the AOA probe. Both are excellent. When I installed the Dynon I
thought I might remove the PSS AOA and sell it, but instead I've installed
it into the glaresheild, facing up to give me a heads-up display, which
works Ok in sunlight and of coarse great on cloudy days. Having learned to
fly in my own creation, I've little flying experience without an AOA, but
feel it is an extremely valuable tool which not only adds to flight safety,
it allows me to make my landings consistently short and precise, something
that is important to me as I work on building a difficult and challenging
future strip at home.
I like these AOA's so much that I will definitely keep both of them. An
experienced pilot that has never had one, probably wouldn't use it if it was
in the panel, but any low-time, new, or non-pilots out there that are
currently building would do well to strongly consider one of these.
Also, don't assume that I've become reliant on this gizmo, as I have
learned the "feel" of my plane, but I'd sooner lose my ASI, than one of
these.
Ps. Sometime ago somebody was asking about the Dynon AOA and I didn't see
any replies. The PSS-AOA actually measures AOA, while the Dynon is more of
an "inferential" measurement, so I didn't expect it to be as accurate. But
I've found that it very closely follows the PSS, so is every bit as
accurate. The biggest advantages to the PSS-AOA is that it has an audible
output which is valuable, (the new Dynon is supposed to have this), it does
a self test every time it turns on and notifies you if it fails (power it up
before removing snow from the wings(covering pressure port)and it will
notify you of an error) and that it can be mounted to give a heads-up
display, while the Dynon display can be slightly cluttered (still love it
though). Anybody using or planning on a Dynon really should pop the extra
couple hundred bucks, for what really is the best priced heated pitot tube
on the market, and get an AOA included!
Pss. Anybody wanna buy my old (almost new) heated pitot tube?
Todd Bartrim
RV9Endurance
13B Turbo Rotary
C-FSTB
http://www3.telus.net/haywire/RV-9/C-FSTB.htm
"The world will always have a place for those that bring hard
work and determination to the things they do."
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I've cjecked into this and the only one I know of was an -8.
Bryan
>You unlatch your slider and pull
>and pull and pull...
>
>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>
>Kathleen Evans
>www.rv7.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Gray <n747jg(at)earthlink.net> |
One of those famous aviation truisms.......why do we do it that way?
Because weve always done it that way.
It doesnt mean its the best way to do it.
To those that feel that AOA is not a valuable addition to an aircraft
because they have survived 20 years, or 30 years or 40 years, without
it, I think you are missing the point. Because you survived without it
doesnt mean its the better way to fly.
airplanes with and without AOA, there is no question in my mind that
AOA is better than no AOA. The reasons would be too lengthy to list
here.
V/R
Jim Gray
RV-8 with AOA under construction
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Johnny Johnson" <Johnny(at)wiktel.com> |
The oil temp on my RV-3 with an O320 generally runs 150 at most, no matter
what. No, I havent calibrated the senders, but two different ones agree
within a few degrees (the original bulb and the sender on the currently
installed GRT engine monitor). From many comments lately on the list, it
looks like O-320s in general run cool. People do all sorts of stuff that
amounts to different ways of blocking off the oil cooler air inlet and/or
outlet to try to get the oil to warm up.
This brings up an obvious question. Do we really need an oil cooler on an
O-320? Has anyone gone the no-cooler route or have some words of wisdom for
me?
Thanks
Johnny Johnson
49MM RV-3A 160 Lyc
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to
just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out?
>
>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky while
>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your
>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach
>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull
>and pull and pull...
>
>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>
>Kathleen Evans
>www.rv7.us
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
>
>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff and
>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It
>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the
>other latch the handle.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>
>
> >
> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway end
> > for fear of it opening further un flight.
> >
> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by itself.
>I
> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
>open
> > a few inches.
> > What are the groups experiences?
> >
> >
> > ---
> >
> >
>
>---
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: O-320 oil temps |
Why is there oil going through the cooler at 150?
>
>The oil temp on my RV-3 with an O320 generally runs 150 at most, no matter
>what. No, I havent calibrated the senders, but two different ones agree
>within a few degrees (the original bulb and the sender on the currently
>installed GRT engine monitor). From many comments lately on the list, it
>looks like O-320s in general run cool. People do all sorts of stuff that
>amounts to different ways of blocking off the oil cooler air inlet and/or
>outlet to try to get the oil to warm up.
>
>This brings up an obvious question. Do we really need an oil cooler on an
>O-320? Has anyone gone the no-cooler route or have some words of wisdom for
>me?
>
>Thanks
>
>Johnny Johnson
>49MM RV-3A 160 Lyc
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Great question, I have been wanting to ask the same since mine never goes
above 170 and I would love to make room and save weight, so I hope someone
has the answer.
John
RV6A O-320
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: RV-9A QB rivet access. |
Hi Pete,
You mean you're not flying yet, and don't care about AOA stall warning
devices, and flying without latching the canopy?
Just kidding.
I used the edge of a piece of half inch steel plate (actually my back
riveting plate, but its a little big) for a bucking bar to do most of the canopy
sill
rivets, and used pop rivets between the front and rear F-721-A and -B pieces.
Also, you can use the flat side of a punch backed up by a bucking bar some
places. Another trick is to taper the front of the F-721-B to get access to
the bottom of the bolt that holds the roll bar on if yours is a slider.
Hope this helps.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
N766DH (Flying since July)
In a message dated 11/10/04 9:45:05 PM US Eastern Standard Time,
pete.howell@gecko-group.com writes:
>
>
> Hello,
>
> I am trying to get access to the rivets under the F-721-B for the F-705 on
> my -9A QB. Is it a case of making some creative bucking bars, or have
> people cut off the slotted flange of the F-721B to get access. Other ideas
> appreciated........
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pete
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall warning etc.] |
Todd, I love the "HUD" display thing!
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Todd Bartrim" <haywire(at)telus.net>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Stall warning etc.
>
I installed the PSS-AOA Sport when building, then after completion
added the
> Dynon and the AOA probe. Both are excellent. When I installed the Dynon I
> thought I might remove the PSS AOA and sell it, but instead I've installed
> it into the glaresheild, facing up to give me a heads-up display, which
> works Ok in sunlight and of coarse great on cloudy days.
> Todd Bartrim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Never done it. Hope I never have to.
But I installed quick release pins just in case.
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2003/11/canopy.html
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us [mailto:Kathleen(at)rv7.us]
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 3:10 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
> So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to
> blue sky while you chatter into the intercom telling your
> friend how easy it is in your RV-#, when there is a, "bang!"
> Next you're whistling toward earth at mach 45, but not
> worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
> airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your
> slider and pull and pull and pull...
>
> Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>
> Kathleen Evans
> www.rv7.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> |
Recent discussion here and an article in Flying talked about the reduced
focus on stall training in modern flight instruction programs, and
seemed to question the need for stall / spin training. Maybe I'm missing
something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane -
isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in
all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall
occurs?
Granted, recovery from a full blown stall at low altitude or in the
pattern is a dicey proposition, so shouldn't the training focus on
recognition of the where the stall is about to occur ? I adhere to the
old Navy adage: The edge IS still part of the envelope.
Paul Valovich
Booger
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
Our O-320 runs warm.
On hot days during climb I have seen oil temps as high as 220 I think. Spoke
with Bart about the temps and he said all was well.
On the other hand, getting the EGT and CHT up on our engine is another
story.
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Furey
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 9:45 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: O-320 oil temps
>
>
> Great question, I have been wanting to ask the same since mine never goes
> above 170 and I would love to make room and save weight, so I hope someone
> has the answer.
>
> John
> RV6A O-320
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tony Marshall" <tony(at)lambros.com> |
Subject: | Rich Meske's "Tip-up Slider" |
In the not too distant past I came across a posting where someone had improved
(modified) Rich's canopy mod. Now I am unable to find it. As I recall the mod
had to do with the spring loaded canopy stop included with Rich's kit. I would
appreciate hearing (seeing) what that mod looks like. I am getting ready
to install the kit on my 6. Thanks.
Tony Marshall
ArtDeco RV6
www.lambros.com
P.O. Box 906
Polson, MT 59860
800-432-6828 Office
406-249-0835 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Howard Walrath" <der_Jagdflieger(at)prodigy.net> |
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
A related question to those posed below is the provision
in many "Tilt-Up" RV-6/6A's that are equipped with an
emergency handle in the panel that will pull out the canopy
arm hinge pins. Some builders have remarked that they
have found that useful to allow complete removal of the
tilt-up canopy for working behind the instrument panel.
My RV-6A does not have that pin removal provision and
I have often wondered whether it would reaaly work to
jetison the canopy to permit bail out or -- just to try and obviate
having to try and break out through the canopy when upside
down if an off-airport landing on unsuitable terrain was imminent.
During one of Van's forums at Air Venture 2004, I posed that
question to Van's chief engineer, and his staff remarked that they
didn't know if it would work in flight and didn't know of anyone
who'd tried to jettison a tip-up. Maybe someone on this list knows
of someone who has.
Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to
> just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out?
>
>
>>
>>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky
>>while
>>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your
>>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at mach
>>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
>>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull
>>and pull and pull...
>>
>>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>>
>>Kathleen Evans
>>www.rv7.us
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>>
>>
>>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on takeoff
>>and
>>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it. It
>>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down, the
>>other latch the handle.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try as I
>> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the runway
>> > end
>> > for fear of it opening further un flight.
>> >
>> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by
>> > itself.
>>I
>> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is only
>>open
>> > a few inches.
>> > What are the groups experiences?
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> >
>>
>>---
>>
>>
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
From: | Scott.Fink(at)microchip.com |
11/12/2004 09:46:59 AM,
Serialize complete at 11/12/2004 09:46:59 AM
Kathleen,
That is why a lot of people put pull-pins to hold the front rollers. That
way, you pull the pins, push the canopy up a little and hopefully it rips
from the plane and out you go to join the caterpillar club.
Scott
Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
11/12/2004 07:12 AM
Please respond to rv-list
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
cc:
Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to
just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out?
>
>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky
while
>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your
>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at
mach
>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull
>and pull and pull...
>
>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>
>Kathleen Evans
>www.rv7.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: O-320 oil temps |
>>>>>>>
My 150 hp E3D with a Positech (new style) cooler rarely gets over 180 during
the summer and I've only see it over 200 on looooong climbs with the ambient
above 90. I do have it firewall mounted and fed with a 3" scat from the left
plenum and have a cockpit adjustable butterfly to control airflow through it.
During the winter it stays shut most of the time to get 180, so maybe I didn't
need all this stuff anyway!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Anybody know of an RV 10 model for microsoft flight sim 2004?
Thanks in advance...
Evan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
Subject: | Re: Stall Training |
In a message dated 11/12/2004 10:11:03 AM Central Standard Time,
pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com writes:
Maybe I'm missing
something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane -
isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in
all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall
occurs?
>>>>>>>
I asked my CFI during intitial training about spins- we climbed to 6K and he
demonstrated. First time was a HUGE eye opener, never having been
dirty-side-up before, but we did several more with me on the controls and the big
difference between the first and the rest convinced me that if I had never seen
a
spin, the first time I got into one accidentally I'd be too busy crapping my
drawers to react quickly, regardless of how many times I'd been coached on the
correct recovery or how many times I had practiced stalls. I'd highly recommend
doing spins with a well-qualified instructor during initial training or at
least get it in aero asap. One of those "most valuable moments" I've ever had
in
an airplane!
FWIW-
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Training |
Valovich, Paul wrote:
>
>Recent discussion here and an article in Flying talked about the reduced
>focus on stall training in modern flight instruction programs, and
>seemed to question the need for stall / spin training. Maybe I'm missing
>something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane -
>isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in
>all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall
>occurs?
>
I received all my training for my private license in a 2-place Grumman
...... spins prohibited. The first opportunity to practice spins came
in a T-34 (which I used to make many instructors sick .... paybacks are
hell!) and now I do them a lot in my Pitts. I don't agree with not
requiring some spin training for the private. As with comments on the
AOA thread ..... being able to explore the slow edge of flight (and the
onset of a stall/spin scenario) may just save somebody's bacon down the
road when they get complacent. The original Grumman Yankee suffered
from approach to landing stall/spin accidents and garnered an undeserved
reputation ..... but the accidents were due to poor (or no) training
when 150 pilots were transitioning to the little Grummans ..... whose
only requirement was to maintain flying speed ..... a little higher than
the 150's ..... and control sink rate with throttle, not elevator.
Again, if the incident had occured with sufficient altitude recovery is
possible (in the Grumman) if action is taken swiftly. The Grummans
proclivity to spin only occurs outside the normal operating envelope and
illadvised use of the rudder. However, with the Grumman, you get two
distinct warnings ...... burbling and associated noise as the airflow
over the wing starts to unattach ..... then the stall horn goes off
....... and if you persist in your activity, finally it will stall.
So, what's this got to do with RV's? Well, I've not got much time in
them .... but not one of the aircraft I've flown was without some
buffeting prior to the stall. Depending on the wing shape, AOA, and
airspeed, the time between buffetting and stall can get pretty short.
But it's still there, and not being trained to know what that noise
means leads me to speculate that stall/spin accidents will increase. My
(unsolicited) advice is to get some practice with a pilot experienced in
the same model ...... and go explore the nether regions of the flight
envelope until you're comfortable doing it by yourself ..... bearing in
mind that with a passenger/instructor the airspeeds will be a little
different than with just one pilot. Go out and have fun with your
airplane .... but I have a warning .... if you get into the 'aerobatic'
regions ..... aierbatics can be terribly addictive ..... I know, because
I'm addicted ..... and when the -10 is done, I'll still have two
airplanes for their two different missions.
Linn
>
>
>Granted, recovery from a full blown stall at low altitude or in the
>pattern is a dicey proposition, so shouldn't the training focus on
>recognition of the where the stall is about to occur ? I adhere to the
>old Navy adage: The edge IS still part of the envelope.
>
>Paul Valovich
>
>Booger
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back approx
.625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound do
no good for me. Dont all slider canopies have to move back before they can
move upward?
>
>Kathleen,
>
>That is why a lot of people put pull-pins to hold the front rollers. That
>way, you pull the pins, push the canopy up a little and hopefully it rips
>from the plane and out you go to join the caterpillar club.
>
>Scott
>
>
>Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>11/12/2004 07:12 AM
>Please respond to rv-list
>
>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> cc:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
>Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to
>just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out?
>
>
> >
> >So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky
>while
> >you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your
> >RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at
>mach
> >45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
> >airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull
> >and pull and pull...
> >
> >Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
> >
> >Kathleen Evans
> >www.rv7.us
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 11/11/04 |
Re: Stall warning.
I am a typical 30-year Cessna "driver," 1,100 hours or so. Everone
knows the "sick cat" wail of the Cessna stall warner. It only surprised me only
once, on the well-known tailwind on base leg scenario & saved the day. Once is
enough! Our 6A nearing completion has the Lift Reserve Indicator.
Paul S. Petersen
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back
> approx
> .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound
> do
> no good for me.
Why not? Just pull the pins, slide it back slightly, push up and it's
gone.
Jim Daniels
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Maureen & Bob Christensen" <mchriste(at)danvilletelco.net> |
I am at the point where I need to buy an engine . . . I'm leaning toward the
TXM-O360 from Mattituck/Teledyne . . . this appears to be a professional
shop with a good reputation. Their price is competitive.
Does anyone out there have experience with the TXM-360 and/or Mattituck that
they would be willing to share?
Thanks,
Bob Christensen
RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Subject: | Re: RV-List Digest: 54 Msgs - 11/11/04 |
PSPRV6A(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Re: Stall warning.
> I am a typical 30-year Cessna "driver," 1,100 hours or so. Everone
> knows the "sick cat" wail of the Cessna stall warner. It only surprised me only
> once, on the well-known tailwind on base leg scenario & saved the day. Once
is
> enough! Our 6A nearing completion has the Lift Reserve Indicator.
>
Uh oh........the dasterdly downwind turn demon has reappeared!!!
Bunches of opinions in the archives. :-)
Sam Buchanan (RV-6 with LRI)
http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/liftreserve.htm
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
yes, i've ordered stuff from them. No problems. Mahlon represents them and he's
just an awesome "internet resource". Like 'lectric Bob but with a torque wrench
instead of a multi-meter on his desk.
>
>
> I am at the point where I need to buy an engine . . . I'm leaning toward the
> TXM-O360 from Mattituck/Teledyne . . . this appears to be a professional
> shop with a good reputation. Their price is competitive.
>
> Does anyone out there have experience with the TXM-360 and/or Mattituck that
> they would be willing to share?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob Christensen
> RV-8 Builder - SE Iowa
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
yep, and the one time we took off in an 8 with it partially opened we couldn't
not get it to move no matter how hard pushed. Seems if you are going much higher
than stall speeds the darn air pressure pushing down on the top of the canopy
is like a lock. Which is wierd because the canopy skirt at the rear has a
low pressure and likes to rise and air enters in on the rear seater's neck.
>
> I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back approx
> .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound do
> no good for me. Dont all slider canopies have to move back before they can
> move upward?
>
>
> >
> >Kathleen,
> >
> >That is why a lot of people put pull-pins to hold the front rollers. That
> >way, you pull the pins, push the canopy up a little and hopefully it rips
> >from the plane and out you go to join the caterpillar club.
> >
> >Scott
> >
> >
> >Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >Sent by: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >11/12/2004 07:12 AM
> >Please respond to rv-list
> >
> >
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > cc:
> > Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
> >
> >
> ><bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> >Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down to
> >just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail out?
> >
> >
> > >
> > >So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky
> >while
> > >you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in your
> > >RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at
> >mach
> > >45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
> > >airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and pull
> > >and pull and pull...
> > >
> > >Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
> > >
> > >Kathleen Evans
> > >www.rv7.us
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless maybe I have
some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and I am amazed
at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in flight. No
insults intended towards anyone just my experience.
>
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > I dont know about you but to open my canopy (8a) it must slide back
> > approx
> > .625 inches before it can move upward to eject it, so those pins wound
> > do
> > no good for me.
>
>Why not? Just pull the pins, slide it back slightly, push up and it's
>gone.
>
>Jim Daniels
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless maybe I
> have
> some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and I am
> amazed
> at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in flight. No
> insults intended towards anyone just my experience.
None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can be
ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it has
(tragically) been proven already?
Jim Daniels
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Bob,
I have a friend who has a Cessna 210 with a turbo normalized 6
cyl. He had Mattituck do the over haul and they did an excellent job.
This is noted from my friend who worked with Malihon and the help and
SERVICE that he got from them. Many will build but if things don't go
exactly the way you want , the service from them to get you on your way
is worth a few bucks.
I will be needing a new engine and they will get my order.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Your right, with a fire you still have control of the plane so it is
possible. If the plane is broke and your speed is up, I dont think it is
going to happen. Hmmmmmm, I am thinking of carrying something to pry the
canopy open with now, its starting to sound like a better and better idea,
it can also double for a canopy breaker to get out if flipped over. I just
dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I guess that
was my main point. Im done on this topic.
>
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless maybe I
> > have
> > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and I am
> > amazed
> > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in flight. No
> > insults intended towards anyone just my experience.
>
>None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can be
>ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it has
>(tragically) been proven already?
>
>Jim Daniels
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | Re: Rich Meske's "Tip-up Slider" |
I'm interested in any improvements there too.
I have installed mine already - but it could be bettter.
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
From: Tony Marshall <tony(at)lambros.com>
Subject: RV-List: Rich Meske's "Tip-up Slider"
In the not too distant past I came across a posting where someone had improved
(modified) Rich's canopy mod. Now I am unable to find it. As I recall the mod
had to do with the spring loaded canopy stop included with Rich's kit. I would
appreciate hearing (seeing) what that mod looks like. I am getting ready
to install the kit on my 6. Thanks.
Tony Marshall
ArtDeco RV6
www.lambros.com
P.O. Box 906
Polson, MT 59860
800-432-6828 Office
406-249-0835 Cell
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Daniels <jwdanie(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
> I just
> dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I guess
> that
> was my main point. Im done on this topic.
Agreed, I'm not trying to trivialize the point, and it is likely not
possible in all situations. Remember, though, that testing the waters
trying to partially open your canopy on a fun flight is entirely
different than a real life emergency situation. I'm guessing that if
that sucker *must* go, you'll come up with a lot more effort.
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
Guys, I am in need of a portable (hand held) back up radio. The old radio in my
C-150 went south and I dont feel like replacing it. I am planning on buying a
new X-com or micro air for my RV 10 but I am not allowed to use either in the
Cessna. So I thought I would just invest now in a back up to use until I am ready
to buy for the RV. Just wondering what everybody else is using and where
the best deals are.
Thanks a bunch....Evan
www.evansaviationproducts.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David E. Nelson" <david.nelson(at)pobox.com> |
Subject: | Re: hand held radio |
Hi Evan,
I've been using the Icom IC-A5 as my standy and have been happy with it.
Features I like:
- BNC antenna
- Lighted display _and_ numbers
- Water resistant
- Small (I actually carry it in my Lightspeed headset bag w/ the headset)
- WX freqs
When I purchased it, ICOM had a special going on and I got the NiMH and
charger.
A pretty good desc is here:
http://www.acespilotshop.com/pilot-supplies/handheld/icom-a5-com.htm
Regards,
/\/elson
On Fri, 12 Nov 2004, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> Guys, I am in need of a portable (hand held) back up radio. The old radio in
> my C-150 went south and I dont feel like replacing it. I am planning on
> buying a new X-com or micro air for my RV 10 but I am not allowed to use
> either in the Cessna. So I thought I would just invest now in a back up to
> use until I am ready to buy for the RV. Just wondering what everybody else is
> using and where the best deals are. Thanks a bunch....Evan
> www.evansaviationproducts.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
Subject: | Re: hand held radio |
Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
>Guys, I am in need of a portable (hand held) back up radio. The old radio in my
C-150 went south and I dont feel like replacing it. I am planning on buying
a new X-com or micro air for my RV 10 but I am not allowed to use either in the
Cessna. So I thought I would just invest now in a back up to use until I am
ready to buy for the RV. Just wondering what everybody else is using and where
the best deals are.
>Thanks a bunch....Evan
>www.evansaviationproducts.com
>
You might scour the radio shops for a used one instead of going the
handheld route. Check TAP too. Even Ebay. If/when you go to sell the
airplane, not having a functioning radio will take a big bite out of the
selling price. I guess it's kinda like pay me now or pay me later. You
may not be satisfied using the handheld as a primary radio ...... I use
the Icom ICA-4 in my Pitts, and its a PITA to tune and only has 10
stored freqs.
Linn
Linn
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
on opie.wvnet.edu
The debate over the AOA/stall warning device is not about how good it is or
how many lives it will save. I doubt anyone is saying that it is totally
useless.
What some of us are disagreeing about is the comment heard from many
proponents:
"Every RV should have one"
The hidden meaning is:
1. How can you fly without one.
2. If you fly without one you are a stupid reckless pilot that should be
banned from the airways.
3. I know best what you need in your RV (in some cases made by people who
don't fly RVs who based their judgments on the Airlines or the Military)
What we are talking about is risk management. Does the pilot think he can
handle the risks or not?
For the AOA proponents, would you ground your aircraft if your AOA was
inoperative? Do you consider it mandatory for any flight?
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Second hand info, but I hear the -4 canopy departs the airframe immediately after
unlatching it.
Tracy Crook
I've cjecked into this and the only one I know of was an -8.
Bryan
>You unlatch your slider and pull
>and pull and pull...
>
>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>
>Kathleen Evans
>www.rv7.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Training |
This FAA sanctioned/fostered/promoted "approach to stalls"/"start recovery
at the first indication of a stall" thing is the single most serious safety
problem that exists in this country, in General Aviation - in my opinion.
It is the only aviation issue I am absolutely PASSIONATE about.
- All pilots should be - but are not -properly instructed in the
essential knowledge of safe recovery from a stall. The bi-annual reviews
and initial flight instruction have been fatally poisoned by the FAA idiocy
so that I see no evidence of proper instruction and practice.
When I attended AirAdventure at Oshkosh about 3 years ago, three aircraft
crashed due to stall turning final over the course of the event. I went to
the FAA exhibit area and shared my frustration with one of the "Ops" types
there. He listened, agreed, and said, "Why don't you go home and write that
up?" I said to him, "Why don't you - you are on the taxpayer's salary and
are on the inside of the system!" He was silent. Wasn't his job.
No one should die from momentarily stalling an aircraft in the turn to
final. Death follows trying to maneuver the aircraft while STILL STALLED -
trying to roll wings level when one one starts dropping due to being stalled
and riding the aircraft into the ground because the ailerons weren't making
the plane roll out, etc, etc, until he/they impact past inverted and/or way
nose low (unsurvivable).
- Som guys in the F-100 used to do the same thing: Would be at 350KIAS
on base leg in the gunnery pattern and roll into a turn to final. If/when
they pulled too hard/got to a high AOA - not even stalled but "high" - we
eventually learned (John Boyd figured it out and taught everyone else) that
the only way to roll the F-100 at high AOA was stick in the center
(laterally) and use slight rudder to cause slight yaw, which caused POWERFUL
roll in the direction you wanted to roll. It wasn't noticeably
"uncoordinated", was NOT "turning with the rudder" as we sometimes
demonstrate in a Cessna, to show how NOT to turn - it was simply a reality
that the F-100 had such horrendous "adverse yaw" from the "down aileron"
that the aileron would produce more yaw than the rudder. You had to use
rudder to roll - at high AOA. These guys turning final would crash/impact
going the OPPOSITE direction from the target - they would be in a left
pattern, load up the aircraft (increase AOA) and use left aileron - result
was a RIGHT roll away from the target, they'd fight it and put in MORE left
aileron, the airplane would continue to depart to the RIGHT and they'd fly
the plane right into the ground fighting the "roll in the opposite
direction".
Well, what does this have to do with straight wing aircraft which don't have
that much adverse yaw? The simple fact that there IS adverse yaw in all our
straight wing aircraft - the Wright brothers found it and added a rudder to
compensate. Other than crossed controls for slipping on final and/or in the
flare for touchdown in presence of a crosswind, the primary purpose of the
rudder is to cancel out adverse yaw when rolling into and out of turns..
- Guys who have spent their whole life only "APPROACHING a stall" and
never MOMENTARILY play with ailerons IN the stall, don't have a clue that
they can and will actually induce a pro-spin control input by trying to
raise a wing while it is still stalled. That is the whole point of this
discussion - keep the ball in the center and don't try to roll BEFORE you
REDUCE AOA and UNSTALL the wing.
I teach: 1) Reduce AOA (now the wing is no longer stalled) and THEN roll
wings level and use power and pitch to avoid the ground. In a Cessna 172 I
typically lose 50' in the recovery from a straight ahead level flight stall.
If you are turning final, overshooting due to being in too close or being
blown in too close by improperly compensated wind, you abandon the attempt
to align with the runway and go around at some angle to the runway, but you
are alive.
2) You must start your recovery - even when practicing under controlled
condition - before you allow the aircraft to develop ANGULAR MOMENTUM in
roll. Release back pressure (unstall), roll out, and pull up. It is a
simultaneous, instantaneous recovery. NO ONE SHOULD EVER DIE IN A "TURN TO
FINAL STALL".
I demonstrate this to a student with a slow power reduction in wings level
flight holding altitude. I reduce power just enough to let the aircraft
slow enough to stall in level flight. We lose 50' in the recovery, without
even having to add full power.
- After the student sees that the airplane is not going to "flip upside
down and/or spin" when it fully stalls, I then demo it by holding the
aircraft in the stall, with Cessna wheel full back against the mechanical
stop, keeping the ball in the center with the rudder, and watch the vertical
velocity tell us that we are falling at a significant rate. We note
altitude, relax back pressure and add power and recover to level flight -
don't lose much altitude.
Then we do it in a simulated turn to final - pull into a full stall and when
one wing starts to drop, we instantly relax back pressure and roll out
(unstalled) and use pitch and power to recover.
1. Don't try to roll or control the bank angle when stalled.
2. Don't let any roll momentum build up before reducing AOA and recovering.
David Carter
----- Original Message -----
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Subject: RV-List: Stall Training
>
> Recent discussion here and an article in Flying talked about the reduced
> focus on stall training in modern flight instruction programs, and
> seemed to question the need for stall / spin training. Maybe I'm missing
> something, but putting aside the need to actually spin the airplane -
> isn't the real learning point recognition of the approach to stall in
> all flight regions, not necessarily the reaction once the full stall
> occurs?
>
>
> Granted, recovery from a full blown stall at low altitude or in the
> pattern is a dicey proposition, so shouldn't the training focus on
> recognition of the where the stall is about to occur ? I adhere to the
> old Navy adage: The edge IS still part of the envelope.
>
> Paul Valovich
>
> Booger
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Training |
I can still hear my instructor's voice in my head as we were doing
approach stalls:
"Lower the nose! Level the wings! Add power! When the airspeed is
good, fly out of it."
David Carter wrote:
>No one should die from momentarily stalling an aircraft in the turn to
>final. Death follows trying to maneuver the aircraft while STILL STALLED -
>trying to roll wings level when one one starts dropping due to being stalled
>and riding the aircraft into the ground because the ailerons weren't making
>the plane roll out, etc, etc, until he/they impact past inverted and/or way
>nose low (unsurvivable).
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
From: | cecilth(at)juno.com |
Seems to me that if you install a 'pull pin' at each side if the canopy
where it connects to the roller (on a slider).
In flight, just pull both pins, undo open the handle, push up on the
canopy, and its gone, period. This is for emergency only. Am I wrong??
Cecil
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> writes:
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Your right, with a fire you still have control of the plane so it is
>
> possible. If the plane is broke and your speed is up, I dont think
> it is
> going to happen. Hmmmmmm, I am thinking of carrying something to pry
> the
> canopy open with now, its starting to sound like a better and better
> idea,
> it can also double for a canopy breaker to get out if flipped over.
> I just
> dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I
> guess that
> was my main point. Im done on this topic.
>
>
> >
> > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > >
> > > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless
> maybe I
> > > have
> > > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and
> I am
> > > amazed
> > > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in
> flight. No
> > > insults intended towards anyone just my experience.
> >
> >None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can
> be
> >ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it
> has
> >(tragically) been proven already?
> >
> >Jim Daniels
> >
> >
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | Re: Stall Training |
At 02:37 PM 11/12/2004, you wrote:
>
>
> > I asked my CFI during intitial training about spins- we climbed to 6K and
>he
> > demonstrated. First time was a HUGE eye opener, never having been
> > dirty-side-up before,
> >
> > Mark Phillips
>
>=================================
>
>Dirty side up????
>
>Are you sure?
>
>
>Bob
Bob,
Actually, most aircraft will go inverted momentarily when a spin is
initiated. You are still moving forward at about 50 mph, and the wind
against the underneath of the wing at the moment of stall/spin initiation
forces the upper wing to roll the aircraft inverted, or nearly so, at the
first turn progresses. The nose then drops and the aircraft remains belly
down. I don't know if all aircraft respond this way, but my C-150 would do
this. I think William Kirschner describes this in his " The Basic Aerobatic
Manual"
Louis
Louis I Willig
1640 Oakwood Dr.
Penn Valley, PA 19072
610 668-4964
RV-4, N180PF
190HP IO-360, C/S prop
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
With all this talk of canopy jettison, I'm wondering if anyone knows of a
case where a pilot tried to get out and failed?
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: <cecilth(at)juno.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
> Seems to me that if you install a 'pull pin' at each side if the canopy
> where it connects to the roller (on a slider).
> In flight, just pull both pins, undo open the handle, push up on the
> canopy, and its gone, period. This is for emergency only. Am I wrong??
> Cecil
>
>
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com> writes:
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > Your right, with a fire you still have control of the plane so it is
> >
> > possible. If the plane is broke and your speed is up, I dont think
> > it is
> > going to happen. Hmmmmmm, I am thinking of carrying something to pry
> > the
> > canopy open with now, its starting to sound like a better and better
> > idea,
> > it can also double for a canopy breaker to get out if flipped over.
> > I just
> > dont like the over simplification of "just opening" the canopy I
> > guess that
> > was my main point. Im done on this topic.
> >
> >
> > >
> > > > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> > > >
> > > > Your canopy slides back in flight? On my 8 it will not, unless
> > maybe I
> > > > have
> > > > some sort of pry bar. We have been through this in the past and
> > I am
> > > > amazed
> > > > at how easy people think it is to open/close the canopy in
> > flight. No
> > > > insults intended towards anyone just my experience.
> > >
> > >None taken, however we have also been shown that an RV8 canopy can
> > be
> > >ejected in flight. Why do we continue to ignore the fact that it
> > has
> > >(tragically) been proven already?
> > >
> > >Jim Daniels
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > Scott Bilinski
> > Eng dept 305
> > Phone (858) 657-2536
> > Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Very good idea. Have you tried pulling the pins with LOTS of pressure on
the canopy? We'd probably all like to know if it works. Just don't break
your canopy trying.. :-)
Kathleen Evans
www.rv7.us
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Bowen
Subject: RE: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
Never done it. Hope I never have to.
But I installed quick release pins just in case.
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2003/11/canopy.html
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Kathleen(at)rv7.us [mailto:Kathleen(at)rv7.us]
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 3:10 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
> So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to
> blue sky while you chatter into the intercom telling your
> friend how easy it is in your RV-#, when there is a, "bang!"
> Next you're whistling toward earth at mach 45, but not
> worried because you wore your chute. You can't control the
> airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your
> slider and pull and pull and pull...
>
> Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>
> Kathleen Evans
> www.rv7.us
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)comcast.net> |
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7
tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be
lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable
forces.
In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift
struts,
pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against
a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit
the aircraft.
The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to
go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level
and in control of the aircraft, why jump out?
The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be
practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with
an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy.
Ed Cole
RV6A N2169D Flying
RV6A N648RV Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard Walrath
Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
A related question to those posed below is the provision
in many "Tilt-Up" RV-6/6A's that are equipped with an
emergency handle in the panel that will pull out the canopy
arm hinge pins. Some builders have remarked that they
have found that useful to allow complete removal of the
tilt-up canopy for working behind the instrument panel.
My RV-6A does not have that pin removal provision and
I have often wondered whether it would reaaly work to
jetison the canopy to permit bail out or -- just to try and obviate
having to try and break out through the canopy when upside
down if an off-airport landing on unsuitable terrain was imminent.
During one of Van's forums at Air Venture 2004, I posed that
question to Van's chief engineer, and his staff remarked that they
didn't know if it would work in flight and didn't know of anyone
who'd tried to jettison a tip-up. Maybe someone on this list knows
of someone who has.
Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down
to
> just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail
out?
>
>
>>
>>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky
>>while
>>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in
your
>>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at
mach
>>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control
the
>>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and
pull
>>and pull and pull...
>>
>>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
>>
>>Kathleen Evans
>>www.rv7.us
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>>
>>
>>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on
takeoff
>>and
>>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it.
It
>>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down,
the
>>other latch the handle.
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
>>
>>
>> >
>> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try
as I
>> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the
runway
>> > end
>> > for fear of it opening further un flight.
>> >
>> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by
>> > itself.
>>I
>> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is
only
>>open
>> > a few inches.
>> > What are the groups experiences?
>> >
>> >
>> > ---
>> >
>> >
>>
>>---
>>
>>
>
>
> Scott Bilinski
> Eng dept 305
> Phone (858) 657-2536
> Pager (858) 502-5190
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only
exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to do that. Is the
downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman can lift it, even
when his/her life depends on it?
I once met a guy who bailed out of a Decathlon when the aft stick got
tangled up on the rear seatbelt during spins. Granted, the door on a
Decathlon is much smaller than a canopy, but he did open it in spite of
being tossed about. It's also worth noting that in such a mishap, the
aircraft is stalled and thus at a very high angle of attack. I believe that
in such an attitude the canopy might be quite easy to get rid of.
Steve Zicree
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Cole" <edwardmcole(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
> If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7
> tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be
> lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable
> forces.
> In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift
> struts,
> pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against
> a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit
> the aircraft.
> The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to
> go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level
> and in control of the aircraft, why jump out?
> The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be
> practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with
> an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy.
>
>
> Ed Cole
> RV6A N2169D Flying
> RV6A N648RV Finishing
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Howard Walrath
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
>
> A related question to those posed below is the provision
> in many "Tilt-Up" RV-6/6A's that are equipped with an
> emergency handle in the panel that will pull out the canopy
> arm hinge pins. Some builders have remarked that they
> have found that useful to allow complete removal of the
> tilt-up canopy for working behind the instrument panel.
>
> My RV-6A does not have that pin removal provision and
> I have often wondered whether it would reaaly work to
> jetison the canopy to permit bail out or -- just to try and obviate
> having to try and break out through the canopy when upside
> down if an off-airport landing on unsuitable terrain was imminent.
>
> During one of Van's forums at Air Venture 2004, I posed that
> question to Van's chief engineer, and his staff remarked that they
> didn't know if it would work in flight and didn't know of anyone
> who'd tried to jettison a tip-up. Maybe someone on this list knows
> of someone who has.
>
> Howard Walrath RV-6A N55HW flying 390 hours
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Scott Bilinski" <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
> > <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
> >
> > Good point. I hear you open the canopy in flight but need to slow down
> to
> > just above stall speed........Now if you can do that then why bail
> out?
> >
> >
> >>
> >>So, you're watching blue sky turn to green fields and back to blue sky
>
> >>while
> >>you chatter into the intercom telling your friend how easy it is in
> your
> >>RV-#, when there is a, "bang!" Next you're whistling toward earth at
> mach
> >>45, but not worried because you wore your chute. You can't control
> the
> >>airplane, so it's time to hit the silk. You unlatch your slider and
> pull
> >>and pull and pull...
> >>
> >>Can you open it? Has anyone ever?
> >>
> >>Kathleen Evans
> >>www.rv7.us
> >>
> >>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> >>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of DejaVu
> >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
> >>
> >>
> >>Yup, been there in my -6. No worries. It popped up about 4" on
> takeoff
> >>and
> >>stayed there. Came around to down wind just in case while closing it.
> It
> >>closed fine in flight. It does take both hands - one to pull it down,
> the
> >>other latch the handle.
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Canopy Open In FLight
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > I started to take off once with the canopy open 2" in my RV6A. Try
> as I
> >> > might I could not budge the canopy. I Landed just short of the
> runway
> >> > end
> >> > for fear of it opening further un flight.
> >> >
> >> > Anyone ever fly with the canopy open? I'm not sure it will open by
> >> > itself.
> >>I
> >> > believe the aerodynamics are working to close it at least if it is
> only
> >>open
> >> > a few inches.
> >> > What are the groups experiences?
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > ---
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>---
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > Scott Bilinski
> > Eng dept 305
> > Phone (858) 657-2536
> > Pager (858) 502-5190
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
steve zicree wrote:
>
> I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only
> exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to do that. Is the
> downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman can lift it, even
> when his/her life depends on it?
Yes.
Now......prove I'm wrong............ :-)
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I don't want to prove anyone wrong, but I'm curious about just how much
downforce is created. If it really is on the order of hundreds of pounds,
shouldn't Vans try to develop a more efficient canopy? All that force is
shoving the aircraft downward and taking away from useful baggage, fuel
capacity, etc.
Are you also saying that this tremendous force exists while in a spin? I
really don't understand how this can be. Can you explain?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
> steve zicree wrote:
> >
> > I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only
> > exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to do that. Is
the
> > downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman can lift it,
even
> > when his/her life depends on it?
>
>
> Yes.
>
> Now......prove I'm wrong............ :-)
>
> Sam Buchanan
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I can think of one situation where I'd open the canopy and egress under
controlled flight.
Anyone remember Von Alexander? There's more reasons than just loss of
control to open your canopy.
Edward Cole wrote:
>
>If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7
>tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be
>lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable
>forces.
>In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift
>struts,
>pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against
>a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit
>the aircraft.
>The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to
>go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level
>and in control of the aircraft, why jump out?
>The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be
>practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with
>an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy.
>
>
>Ed Cole
>RV6A N2169D Flying
>RV6A N648RV Finishing
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "steve zicree" <szicree(at)adelphia.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I remember well, and sadly have to agree. The circumstances that would
require and allow a succesful egress and chute deployment are very, very
narrow indeed. However, if things do come to it, it may be the ONLY way to
survive and therefore deserves thoughtful consideration.
The tone of many of the more experienced gents on here brings to mind
another highly experienced master of machinery who didn't take the claims of
safety equipment advocates seriously and paid: Dale Earnhardt.
When I started flying only 4 short years ago, every old timer I met said
that GPS was crap and would never take the place of the trusty VOR! New
ideas are GOOD! Investigation is GOOD! Open-minded humility is GOOD.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott VanArtsdalen" <svanarts(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
> I can think of one situation where I'd open the canopy and egress under
> controlled flight.
>
> Anyone remember Von Alexander? There's more reasons than just loss of
> control to open your canopy.
>
> Edward Cole wrote:
>
> >
> >If the situation arose that you would consider bailing out of a RV6/7
> >tilt-up, I would assume that control of the aircraft would have to be
> >lost and you would be flailing about the cabin against unimaginable
> >forces.
> >In this case you would still have to be able to disconnect the lift
> >struts,
> >pull the emergency release handle, push the canopy up far enough against
> >a 150-200 mph wind to throw it up over your head before you could exit
> >the aircraft.
> >The other scenario is that you are straight and level and still have to
> >go through the same maneuvers. Of course if you were straight and level
> >and in control of the aircraft, why jump out?
> >The bottom line is that jettisoning the canopy in flight would be
> >practically impossible. The posts concerning takeoff and flight with
> >an open canopy shows how tough it is to even move the canopy.
> >
> >
> >Ed Cole
> >RV6A N2169D Flying
> >RV6A N648RV Finishing
> >
> >
>
> --
> Scott VanArtsdalen
> Van Arts Consulting Services
> 3848 McHenry Ave
> Suite #155-184
> Modesto, CA 95356
> 209-986-4647
> Ps 34:4,6
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
Amen to that.
steve zicree wrote:
>
> Open-minded humility is GOOD.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "James E. Clark" <james(at)nextupventures.com> |
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
As I recall, our tip-up is hard enough to remove **ON THE GROUND!!** with
two people working at it.
I **think** the newer (within last 5-6 years??) have a hook in the mechanism
that would make it very difficult to simply "jettison" in flight.
There is some **upward** force for the first inch or so and I *think* the
canopy tries to stabilize slightly open. To get it closed requires slowing
down and/or certain maneuvers to counter the pressures.
These comments are based on some actual experiences and direct comments from
someone with actual experience with a tip-up canopy that was half locked in
my case an no locked at all in the other case.
I do not have knowledge about what happens in a spin.
"Don't try this at home.". "Your mileage may vary." Stay safe!
James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of steve zicree
> Sent: Friday, November 12, 2004 11:44 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
> I don't want to prove anyone wrong, but I'm curious about just how much
> downforce is created. If it really is on the order of hundreds of pounds,
> shouldn't Vans try to develop a more efficient canopy? All that force is
> shoving the aircraft downward and taking away from useful baggage, fuel
> capacity, etc.
>
> Are you also saying that this tremendous force exists while in a spin? I
> really don't understand how this can be. Can you explain?
>
> Steve
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question
>
>
> >
> > steve zicree wrote:
> > >
> > > I may be missing something here, but the entire 20 foot long wing only
> > > exerts 1000 pounds or so of upward lift and it's DESIGNED to
> do that. Is
> the
> > > downforce on that little canopy so great that no man/woman
> can lift it,
> even
> > > when his/her life depends on it?
> >
> >
> > Yes.
> >
> > Now......prove I'm wrong............ :-)
> >
> > Sam Buchanan
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
Subject: | AOA stall warn etc. |
Many thanks to all you experienced folks for your general words of wisdom and especially
those who were specific about yanking and banking the RV, I learned
a few things about my aicraft these past few days that I will try to keep in mind
when I fly it. When my airplane is ready to go and I've had my transition
training I will revisit these comments for a "pre-flight breifing" from y'all
to help keep me thinking about the capabilities and limitations of the airplane
in that portion of the envelope. The RV obviously does NOT need an AOA for
takeoff, landing or cruise flight. I know that the design is very robust and
as safe as most any production aircraft out there. Dick VanG has been flying
them for the last 35 years without AOA and is the ultimate testimate to that
fact. However, as a person who performs safety and failure analysis for a living,
I am very risk aware and somewhat risk averse (no, not risk averse enough
to avoid flying airplanes, it's too much fun). As such I am always looking for
ways to "design out" or "control" the hazards. AOA cannot eliminate the hazard
of the stall spin accident but it can help to maintain "control" over it by
informing my brain that I have something serious that needs my attention, NOW!
So why do people still perish, even with these things blaring in their ears? I
suspect that it is, at least in part, caused by the pilot being so overloaded
that he can't handle one more distraction. Many years ago, the investigation
of a serious Nuclear power plant accident (not Three Mile Island), and some other
studies about why mishaps occur, uncovered an interesting phenomenon. The
phenomenon the researchers discovered is:....that the average human being can
cope with up to 7 distractions (all at once) before the brain begins to "melt
down". People who process information serially probably can't deal with that
many distractions at once. So yes, in a serious emergency it is not only possible
that the horn could be blaring and you'd completly miss hearing it, but
also probable. Could it happen to me too? You bet, but the technology is there
so why not use every means at my disposal to help me live to fly another day?
I understand the seat-of-the-pants arguments and I agree. After flying several
hundred hours in the venerable C-172 I have a pretty good feel for whether
they are going to keep flying or fall out of the sky, just by seat-of---MY----pants.
But after listening to a rather infamous RV driver talk about yanking
and banking in the pattern to bleed off airspeed, experiencing that very thing
with a friend in his RV-6A and then having two friends perish in a stall spin.....started
me thinking. And given that I have been in the pattern at HIO
more than once (with many other airplanes) and the tower wanting me to perform
some wierd shenanigans (right on short final).....I've gotten distracted, plain
and simple. Fortunately familiarity with the airplane (and proficiency) probably
kept me out of trouble but...it's nice to have that little extra something
jabbing you in the ribs saying:"hey dummy-don't forget to fly the airplane
first". Just MHO:-)
Dean Psiropoulos
N197DM making progress to flight.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)webkorner.com> |
I'm looking for a few good pictures of cable routing and cable bracket construction
for my application. I have an Airflow Performance Fuel control on a
forward facing sump on my IO360 RV-8. I am planning on coming straight back under
the sump with the throttle and mixture, useing the threaded boss under the
sump to attach a bracket. I plan on useing the A-1550 cables from ACS with
bulkhead fittings at each end. Are these the right cables? I understand that
the standard cable lengths are measured from tip to tip on these quadrant cables
(is that right) but how much do I need to allow to put a clevis fitting and
a rod end bearing on the threaded ends? Is this the usual setup? Pictures would
help a lot! Thanks.
Ron Schreck
ronschreck(at)webkorner.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Subject: | Re: The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
steve zicree wrote:
>
> I remember well, and sadly have to agree. The circumstances that would
> require and allow a succesful egress and chute deployment are very, very
> narrow indeed. However, if things do come to it, it may be the ONLY way to
> survive and therefore deserves thoughtful consideration.
>
> The tone of many of the more experienced gents on here brings to mind
> another highly experienced master of machinery who didn't take the claims of
> safety equipment advocates seriously and paid: Dale Earnhardt.
>
> When I started flying only 4 short years ago, every old timer I met said
> that GPS was crap and would never take the place of the trusty VOR! New
> ideas are GOOD! Investigation is GOOD! Open-minded humility is GOOD.
Steve, I must speak up for the old, experienced coots on this list that
may have sounded like they were expressing less than "Open-minded humility".
You must keep in mind that the question of whether or not it is possible
to jettison the tip-up canopy on the RV-6 has been hotly debated by
RVer's for the nearly twenty years that the RV-6 has been in production.
This is an old argument that has been hashed multiple times on this list
and in countless hangar-flyin' sessions.
What the "experienced gents" expressed was probably more of an
eye-rolling impatience at having to revisit this issue *another* time
rather than lack of humility. My comment of "prove me wrong" was a
recognition that we all base our opinions on this subject purely on
speculation since to our knowledge, nobody has ever jumped from a flying
tip-up canopy RV-6. There have been instances of RV-4's losing the
canopy, and there is the tragic Alexander RV-8 accident, but no known
instances of that happening with an RV-6.
As one who has personal experience with how difficult it can be to
handle an open canopy in flight, it is my contention that wearing a
parachute in a tip-up RV-6, 7, 9 is an exercise in futility. However,
the ONLY way to prove otherwise is for somebody to actually jettison the
canopy and successfully jump! Until that happens, all we can do is
speculate on the odds of being able to actually egress from a flying
tip-up RV. And that experiment will only prove the validity of that
particular flight scenario.
Having said this, I suspect a new builder will raise this question again
in a couple of years, and it may be that you will be one of the "RV
veterans" who will roll their eyes and say "not again....." and urge the
newbie to read the scores of messages in the archives on this subject.
Sometimes a perceived lack of humility is merely a reluctance to revisit
a subject that still has no concrete answer and has been beat to death
in the past.
Best wishes on a successful and expeditious conclusion to your project,
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
Subject: | master relay failure |
I pulled my RV9 out of the hangar yesterday to enjoy an unusaully nice
Seattle, fall day, I hit the master switch - NOTHING. I took to cowl off and
determined that the master relay was "sticking". The relay was one of teh
first accessories I installed during construction and probably has 1000+ cycles
on it. But it is common for such a "simple" relay to stick and fail? I could
not find a comparable relay at the auto parts store so I have one on order
from Van's.
Kim Nicholas
RV9A 15 hours.
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Warren Hurd <warren(at)ahyup.com> |
Subject: | Roll Your Own AOA |
From what I understand angle of attack is differential pressure between
the upper and lower parts of the wing or leading edge. A differential
pressure gauge is plumbed to a couple of ports to determine the AOA, or
a small wind vane is mounted on a probe. Either would work. I book
marked this page some time ago. http://www.snyder.on.ca/pages/lri.htm
I am a very low time pilot, building a RV-9A. It will have an AOA and a
low fuel indicator at a minimum. I joined the EAA and am now president
of the chapter. We have the third longest runway in the state, and we
need a hanger. Yesterday we were notified that we have received our
501(c)3 status.
So it is possible to build a plane, a hanger, and a AOA gauge.
Warren Hurd
http://ahyup.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | Jim Streit <wooody04(at)bellsouth.net> |
If you could send that diagram I would appreciate it also.
Jim Streit
RV-9A
dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote:
>
>Can those of you with RV-6s that have a controlable pitch prop tell me where you
penetrated the firewall and the length of your prop control cable?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Subject: | Re: Control Cables |
http://www.rvproject.com has many pictures of the process as I flailed
around trying to figure out the easiest way to run the throttle and mixture
cables to the AFP FM-200 on my IO-360-A1B6.
Here's the cable bulkhead I made for the throttle control, which comes from
the left side and swoops under the sump, bulkhead attaching to the little
flange on #2's intake:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030922.html
Here's the cable bulkhead I made for the mixture control, which runs under
the sump:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030926.html
280 hours and counting, and I've had no problems with the cables routed this
way.
Many other photos of different methods I considered are also on the site.
FYI, if you use the method I did, be sure to use heat shields and heat-wrap
your control cables in the vicinity of the exhaust. I've heard lots of
stories about cables becoming inop due to excess radiant heat being
absorbed.
Best of luck,
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)webkorner.com>
Subject: RV-List: Control Cables
>
> I'm looking for a few good pictures of cable routing and cable bracket
construction for my application. I have an Airflow Performance Fuel control
on a forward facing sump on my IO360 RV-8. I am planning on coming straight
back under the sump with the throttle and mixture, useing the threaded boss
under the sump to attach a bracket. I plan on useing the A-1550 cables from
ACS with bulkhead fittings at each end. Are these the right cables? I
understand that the standard cable lengths are measured from tip to tip on
these quadrant cables (is that right) but how much do I need to allow to put
a clevis fitting and a rod end bearing on the threaded ends? Is this the
usual setup? Pictures would help a lot! Thanks.
>
> Ron Schreck
> ronschreck(at)webkorner.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | HAL KEMPTHORNE <hal_kempthorne(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Subject: | Re: AOA - when going straight up |
Phil S. says there wouldn't be relative wind if your RV was going straight up.
I can see that it might not amount to much, but there would be some wouldn't
there? I'm not nit picking but just interested in learning.
If one was going straight up in an F16 and fast enough, there would also be lift
I should think. I wonder what the stick forces would be then?
hal
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
Subject: | Most important stall practice (long); not builder related |
This may be in the archives but is still important to this discussion.
One maneuver you should go up and practice in our short winged wonders
may be an issue with stall-spin accidents on the turn from base to
final. This seems to be where a LOT of accidents happen, as previously
alluded.
If you are comfortable with your airplane, do them yourself. If not,
which is to say not comfortable with near-spin entrance or spins (you're
NOT?), get an instructor.
Get some altitude as if you were going to do aerobatics (you may be!).
Line up perpendicular to a road that will function as the "runway", way
down there. Configure for landing: speed you use in a normal pattern
from base to final, flap settings you use for landing. SO: left hand
descending turn base to final on the road setting up to land (at
altitude). But as you come around overshoot the center line of the
"runway" so now it is drifting off to your left a little, nose pointing
to the right of your "runway". Well, that's no problem, your punkin
brain thinks. I'll just shove in a little LEFT rudder and push the tail
around to get lined up.
Here's what happens: you are in a left turn (assuming left hand
pattern), descending, low airspeed. Push that left rudder and suddenly
the right wing speeds up and the left wing slows down and STALLS, and
quicker than suddenly you are pointed left wing WAY down at Mother
Earth, in a near-spin entry. What happens: if your AOA is on the right
wing, maybe no warning; if your (erk) stall warning device is on the
right wing, maybe no beep. But you don't have time to hear/look at that
anyway because you have to react NOW and do what is totally against your
normal thought process and PUSH FORWARD, toward aforementioned Mother
and either let go of the left rudder (should be enough to correct) or
push in a little/bunch of RIGHT rudder to get the left wing going the
same speed as the right. IN AN INSTANT, without regard to airspeed, AOA,
stall warning: i.e. head OUTSIDE of the airplane where is should be. Not
looking at instruments or listening for the (erk) stall horn. And
without overcorrecting and stalling the right wing. Lots to think
about/do in a VERY short amount of time to avoid getting dirt in the
cockpit.
Yikes.
Do this a bunch of times. Do it from the left and right. STALL that wing
and DO WHAT YOU NEED TO DO to correct. Don't just get close; STALL THE
LOW/SLOW WING. It's kind of freaky, even at altitude. I think that
practicing this particular maneuver would help prevent many of the base
to final problems. Can you still get in trouble knowing this? Yes.
Having had this practice establishing that visual and means of recovery
in my pea brain, I am VERY aware of what my feet are doing in the
pattern, especially in turns. They are usually almost off the rudders by
reflex, putting in small corrections when necessary. Practice, practice,
practice.
Since this seems to be where stall-spins occur (getting into IMC and
unable to recover in aerobatics some others, perhaps), this MAY be the
most useful place to recognize entrance to spins.
IMHO, only, of course. Agree: try it; don't agree: disregard as blabber.
Michael
RV-4 N232 Suzie Q
Open canopy NOT an option; on the check list.
AOA and stall warning devices......nah; don't want to get into that one.
Almost did but deleted it: blabber.
________________________________________________________________________________
From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
Subject: | The Real Canopy Open In Flight Question |
I must be getting weak- I'm finding it harder that ever to resist diving
in to some of these debates!
Having been under canopy a couple hundred times, and upside down rather a
few more, I take all this as much more than an academic exercise and am
searching for some really workable answers.
November 06, 2004 - November 13, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-qa