RV-Archive.digest.vol-qf
December 08, 2004 - December 12, 2004
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)allstream.net> |
| Subject: | Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron |
I had the same problem with my flaps
on my RV8 QB.
I bought a widder hinge and moved the
flaps out to match the aileron.
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman(at)allstream.net
From: CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron
This is a QB -8
Cut out my wing form, mounted my aileron, began to
position the flap with the 1/4 gap between the flap and
aileron ........The trailing edge of the flap when the piano
hinge is as it should be is 3/16" short. The hinge was already
mounted to the flap. If I postion the flap so the
trailing edges line up the hinge is too thin. I searched the archives
and one mention of a larger hinge was mentioned, and only mentioned.
What am I missing here ???
RV-4
RV-8 Tail
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=2/6GKP8dZBnKNcOc4X0dCG8mjXXjSmV71no2HCdsgJf9c0n43V+J1MmslN7pe/VgduiTWXycF6duDtlk83ncaT8JXjMvccCtdNOq4tz6j4ZleK+eup7rz5i2zjI4jMBmlcXYYZSSDMu+G1bL8fOLLtJuGKLE8SQiVs8bjPXF4HM;
| From: | Steve Slayden <steve_slayden(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron |
Diddo. Buy the next wider hinge (denoted by the part's last "dash
number". I think it is MSxxxxx-4. Look at the part number stamped on
the current hing then replace the -3 with a -4. The only difference is
the width of the hinge's flat surface. A -3 will mate fine with a -4.
It's expensive, though. I think its about $10/ft. Remember though that
you'll get 2x as much as you need because you only need half of the
hing. So if the flap hinges are four feet long, you only need to buy
four feet of hing. Use one half for the left side and the other half
for the right.
--- GEORGE INMAN wrote:
>
> I had the same problem with my flaps
> on my RV8 QB.
> I bought a widder hinge and moved the
> flaps out to match the aileron.
>
>
> GEORGE H. INMAN
> ghinman(at)allstream.net
>
>
> From: CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com
> Subject: RV-List: Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron
>
>
>
> This is a QB -8
> Cut out my wing form, mounted my aileron, began to
> position the flap with the 1/4 gap between the flap and
> aileron ........The trailing edge of the flap when the piano
> hinge is as it should be is 3/16" short. The hinge was already
> mounted to the flap. If I postion the flap so the
> trailing edges line up the hinge is too thin. I searched the
> archives
> and one mention of a larger hinge was mentioned, and only mentioned.
>
> What am I missing here ???
>
>
> RV-4
> RV-8 Tail
>
>
>
> _->
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Advanced Flight Systems AOA Press Release |
Advanced Flight Systems, Inc. is pleased to announce the acquisition of the
line of angle-of-attack instruments from Proprietary Software Systems, Inc.
The product line includes both the AOA Pro and AOA Sport models. AFS
currently manufactures and markets the popular ACS2002 computerized engine monitor
system. This addition strengthens Advanced Flight Systems' already strong
position in the avionics market.
Company President, Rob Hickman indicates "This acquisition represents an
exciting expansion of the Advanced Flight Systems product line. We are committed
to expanding our aviation products offering and feel the AOA line makes an
excellent expansion category. Mr. Frantz has created a truly best-in-class
system that fits our goal of always providing state-of-the-art products, solid
value, and superlative support. We are in this business for the long run and
our customers will see a continuing stream of improvements to both our current
products, and new products."
Angle-of-Attack indication unlocks Navy carrier pilots=E2=80=99 secrets and puts
a
priority on safety. All approaches should be flown at the same optimum
approach angle-of-attack not the same IAS. General aviation pilots can now do
precision approaches just like the military and airline pilots and accurately
gauge Vx, Vy, best glide, L/D max and maximum endurance AOA because
angle-of-attack is not a function of weight, bank angle, fuel load, density altitude
,etc.
This patented revolutionary angle-of-attack instrument is based on a long
known aerodynamic principle. The AOA includes a color display and aural voice
system which warns of critically high AOA, gear position errors and
installation/hardware errors. There are no ugly probes, vanes or protrusions to
slow
you down or accumulate ice.
Currently in the process of relocating AOA production to its facility in
Portland, Oregon, AFS looks forward to a smooth transition that should be
complete by January 2005.
Further information can be found at the company's web sites:
_www.Advanced-Flight-Systems.com_ (http://www.advanced-flight-systems.com/)
and _www.Angle-Of-Attack.com_ (http://www.angle-of-attack.com/) .
CONTACT:
Rob Hickman, President
(503) 598-7727
Email: Rob@Advanced-Flight-Systems.com
Advanced Flight Systems, Inc.
16285 SW 85th Ave Suite 401
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=DjSC/wRFVtwJnXvd2FvDyA3eAUqegEkME4qulVtlAz6JXuXBdNepFh02tNt9xlL8eJTDuyYFwo3SZLs+fSobu5q6Xs+xmkH6eKCwFO9aLvORWEVDPmYuYIbKOABZxDiQUWcXRmG9Y0P+MvO3eo/IzSh29nxP6JqjxLdiPUVkkoY;
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - Cheap headsets needed |
You can get real good deals on eBay. For a headset try:
http://motors.search.ebay.com/headset_Pilot-Gear_W0QQsofocusZbsQQsbrftogZ1QQcatrefZC6QQsocolumnlayoutZ3QQsotrvalueZ1QQsotrtypeZ1QQsamotorscategorymapZ6028QQfromZR10QQsocomparecolumnlayoutZ1QQsorecordsperpageZ50QQsacategoryZ26440Q26catrefQ3DC6QQsotrZ2QQsosortpropertyZ2Q26sosortorderQ3D2QQcoactionZcompareQQcopagenumZ1QQcoentrypageZsearch
You can get a good head-set for less than the price of an el-cheap-o Head-vice.
It is not worth buying a cheap head-set, because they usually stop working in
short order. Just not worth it.
You can buy new, used, dealers, private individuals on eBay with a wide selection.
I have got great deals from eBay and never had any problems on many items,
as a buyer or a seller. Sellers and Buyers all get ratings (feedback) from each
other that you can review. Any eBay member with good reviews is likely to
be trustworthy. Also some items can be bought outright with a "Buy Now" feature,
used in some auctions, so you don't have to wait for the auction to close.
(Auctions can run 8-10 days typically).
You also can get a PayPal account that has your pay info, address and credit or
bank info. (This is separate but owned by eBay- and is thru secure Internet connections).
Once set-up you can pay for your winning auctions (or receive payments
if selling an item), so when a auction you win closes, you can pay right
away with a few buttons strokes and have it shipped next day. Very clean and
efficient, delivered to your door.
Tips:
Don't over bid. Know what it is worth and what you want to pay. Don't get caught
in a bid war. There is always good selection and another item will come along.
You can also see what items have sold for by looking at completed auctions,
to help figure what to bid. Also you can get radios, instruments, parts of all
kinds. You can even set up a search that will notify you if a particular item
comes up for auction. Cool.
Have fun. G
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: OT - Cheap headsets needed |
>
>You can get real good deals on eBay. For a headset try:
Some of the best deals are found by searching for misspelled
words. If you are looking for a cheap headset, search for "(headset,
hedset, headsett, heddset, "head set", "hedd set)". Hardly anyone else will
be bidding if the item is poorly listed.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jason Sneed <n242ds(at)cox.net> |
Does anyone know of a good source for titanium bolts and fasteners?
Internet site would be fine...
Thanks a lot,
Jason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com> |
I was looking for aircraft grade titanium bolts a while back and only found
some very expensive sources or web sites with no prices, but I did find that
there are a ton of them listed on Ebay by lots of different sources. Of
course there is no telling if they are good or a bunch of rejects that came
out of a dumpster.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jason Sneed
Subject: RV-List: titanium bolts
Does anyone know of a good source for titanium bolts and fasteners?
Internet site would be fine...
Thanks a lot,
Jason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
http://ebay.com
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jason Sneed [mailto:n242ds(at)cox.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2004 7:12 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: titanium bolts
>
>
> Does anyone know of a good source for titanium bolts and fasteners?
> Internet site would be fine...
>
> Thanks a lot,
>
> Jason
>
>
> ========
> ========
> Matronics Forums.
> ========
> ========
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws;
s=s1024; d=yahoo.com;
b=ApWmYDUEBdEnd+H0WU32yjeIDjfc4OKeTTX/SUTAkpHgjyckfAVbZD8n82j5LYEmrH5uAqWaLiihuNk6ruJrTOdw/zYXsqfhDtQobPTyabiodX2nKMjuJ3oQKSSs+2GeGTGMyedKR+OF/O2IJJ4Y6BWI0PeeILrMRl7CsAFh3bc;
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: titanium bolts |
Surf the Nascar supply and similiar sites. High end race cars use em.
Rick Galati RV-6A "flying in Spring"
Does anyone know of a good source for titanium bolts and fasteners?
Internet site would be fine...
Thanks a lot,
Jason
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? |
How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get
the darned things out to inspect/replace?
Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225.
3/8" axle bolt.
I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Trailing edge - Flaps Aileron |
Interesting about the blatent lack of concern about fixing one of Vans
problems, seems they need some attitude adjustment. I had a problem with an
order, and cust svc guy just told me flat out that maybe I should take my
business elswere. I told them what i thought of there "customer no service"
Charlie heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com> |
Anyone using the Hobbyair Pro that can give comments.
Thanks
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bluecavu(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
>>David,
I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire suppression system could be a
good life saving measure.
I did some searches on the Matronics archives (RVs) and found mostly
deriding comments on such a system.
Their point being, because of the very high air velocity going through the
engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon gas before it could
extinguish any fires.
YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you need is AF3... Aqueous Film
Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car guys use for onboard fire
supression. So much better than Halon in this usage for many reasons. I was
probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression systems back in the
archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was working some with a friend
to bring
some of these systems to the experimental aircraft market before he
unexpected died and the whole idea kind of dissolved in the wake of his death.
If
there's interest, I imagine the idea could be revived.
just my .02
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | sky sports capacitive fuel senders |
Has any one used Sky Sports capacitive fuel senders & gauge. It's
expensive - about $275 for 2 tanks. Looks like it could be made to fit
the tank, though.
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A, firewall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mitch Faatz" <mitchf(at)skybound.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
> YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you need is AF3... Aqueous
Film
> Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car guys use for onboard
fire
> supression. So much better than Halon in this usage for many reasons. I
was
> probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression systems back in the
> archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was working some with a
friend to bring
> some of these systems to the experimental aircraft market before he
> unexpected died and the whole idea kind of dissolved in the wake of his
death. If
> there's interest, I imagine the idea could be revived.
Check professional car racing shops (search for AFFF)
http://www.continentalmotorsport.com/onlinecatalogsafetyfiresystem.htm has
both handheld and plumbed in systems
http://www.bimmerworld.com/onlinestoreframe.html and search for AFFF
http://www.spausadirect.com/product_pages/motorsportfiresystems.asp?prodID=25
Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Hobbyair Pro |
Painted my RV6-A using it and liked it a lot! Works as advertised and never
failed to deliver fresh air. Wish it had an On-Off Switch though.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com>
Subject: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro
>
> Anyone using the Hobbyair Pro that can give comments.
>
> Thanks
> Greg
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Francis Malczynski" <ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Trio Autopilot Control Rod |
I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6
and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going
from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end
bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061
T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw
in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 thread.
What have other people done?..Thanks
Fran Malczynski
RV-6 N594EF
Olcott, NY
ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod |
Hi,
I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store,
and drilled and tapped it. Photos here:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040910173454452
Mickey
>I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6
>and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going
>from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end
>bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061
>T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw
>in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 thread.
>What have other people done?..Thanks
>
>Fran Malczynski
>RV-6 N594EF
>Olcott, NY
>ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling(at)earthlink.net> |
Is it normal for fuel to seep between the airbox mounting plate and the injector?
I always have a small pool of an oilly fuel mess on top of my airbox. If
it gets too full, it will eventually leak into the airbox and then out the drain
hole.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
150 hours
Chicago/Louisville
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <EricHe(at)FlexSolPackaging.com> |
Greg, I have been using the Hobby Air pro for a year now. Its the best money I've
ever spent. I live in S. Fla and the biggest benefit is its a cool suit. I
used to have a real problem with sweating in the paint. The hood keeps you nice
and cool and no sweat. There is absolutely no reason for the face mask and a
hood. I don't think you'll like it. One of the beautys of the hood is it brings
the air in the back of your head. The hose then has a belt that holds it securely
in the middle of your back. I paint holding a 150 watt shop light in one
hand so I can look into the spray pattern as it flows back together. This means
I've got a fresh air hose, and air hose and an electrical extension cord following
me around everywhere I go. I just zip tie them all together and they
then pull from the small of my back where the hood quick disconnect is. The hood
is worth it just for this reason alone. You will never drag the air hose through
fresh paint again because it is locked in over your shoulder. I love it.
The pro air unit might be overkill. It will run two hoods just fine with a y splitter
and two 40' lengths of hose. The dowside is with only one 40' hose it is
a windstorm in your hood. It really needs a low setting when used with 1 length
of 40' hose and one hood. Because of this, I always use it with the full 80'
with half of it coiled up. Still its too much air, which means your tyvex paint
suit had better be damn clean because all that extra air is exiting across
your body. Still, I can't overemphasize how great it is to be able to paint
and not have a rubber mask against your skin, just cool air.
I bought my unit from Len at Autobodystore.net. He's a great guy to do business
with and he often puts these things on sale, see if he's got one coming up. Be
sure and get a bunch of the tear away shields. I recommend when you put them
on you outline the shield with 1" masking tape so absolutely no overspray gets
in under the shield to your good acrylic hood.
Hope it helps,
Eric Henson
S. Fla
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bendix injector |
Good question, I have the same problem, so your not alone.
>
>Is it normal for fuel to seep between the airbox mounting plate and the
>injector? I always have a small pool of an oilly fuel mess on top of my
>airbox. If it gets too full, it will eventually leak into the airbox and
>then out the drain hole.
>
>Shemp/Jeff Dowling
>RV-6A, N915JD
>150 hours
>Chicago/Louisville
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George P. Tyler" <gptyler(at)metrocast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? |
On my 6 I found it easier and not very expensive to replace the wheel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Finn Lassen" <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-List: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
>
> How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
>
> I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get
> the darned things out to inspect/replace?
>
> Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225.
> 3/8" axle bolt.
> I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel.
>
> Finn
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
SNIP My plan is to wire my GRT EFIS to the audio input. SNIP
I have the GRT EFIS. I really like it. However, I DO NOT use the audio
warning option. There are quite enough lights and warnings without it,
IMHO.
Regardless as to whether YOU want to use it, getting the parameters set
up takes more than just a few minutes of programming and flight time. I
HIGHLY recommend that you put a switch in that audio line so you can
shut it off. If you don't, you won't hear the radio, music, or anything
else for the first 5 hours of flight time due to the EFIS false alarms.
It will be very distracting.
OTOH, you might be a bonafide programming genius with a pHD in Lycoming
parameters and sensing devices... in which case it will only take you
three hours of flight time to stomp the squawks and get the alarm
parameters set to what YOU want.
This sounds like I'm griping about the GRT product... nothing could be
farther from the truth. I like it very much.
I have a copy of the EIS and EFIS parameters I use for my SIX cylinder
Lyc. Have a look at the pages below if you have or are interested in
the GRT EFIS or EIS.
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Instruments%20and%20electr
ical.htm
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/RocketEISSettings.xls
Don't forget to paste the links back together if they appear on two
lines in your email program.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? |
Hey Vince...
I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although
it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel to
add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to
mute the audio...
-Bill
www.rv8a.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Subject: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed?
SNIP My plan is to wire my GRT EFIS to the audio input. SNIP
I have the GRT EFIS. I really like it. However, I DO NOT use the audio
warning option. There are quite enough lights and warnings without it,
IMHO.
Regardless as to whether YOU want to use it, getting the parameters set
up takes more than just a few minutes of programming and flight time. I
HIGHLY recommend that you put a switch in that audio line so you can
shut it off. If you don't, you won't hear the radio, music, or anything
else for the first 5 hours of flight time due to the EFIS false alarms.
It will be very distracting.
OTOH, you might be a bonafide programming genius with a pHD in Lycoming
parameters and sensing devices... in which case it will only take you
three hours of flight time to stomp the squawks and get the alarm
parameters set to what YOU want.
This sounds like I'm griping about the GRT product... nothing could be
farther from the truth. I like it very much.
I have a copy of the EIS and EFIS parameters I use for my SIX cylinder
Lyc. Have a look at the pages below if you have or are interested in
the GRT EFIS or EIS.
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/Instruments%20and%20electr
ical.htm
http://www.usi.edu/science/chemistry/vfrazier/RocketEISSettings.xls
Don't forget to paste the links back together if they appear on two
lines in your email program.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
Okay, but these sites all say that this system is for fire suppression
to give the driver enough time to escape. It is not like we can just
pull over to the side of the sky and hop out. Does anyone have
experience with these type systems and can verify that they will really
put out the fire or do they do what the sites say and merely suppress
the fire for a period of time?
Interested, but skeptical...
Dick Tasker
Mitch Faatz wrote:
>Check professional car racing shops (search for AFFF)
>
>http://www.continentalmotorsport.com/onlinecatalogsafetyfiresystem.htm has
>both handheld and plumbed in systems
>
>http://www.bimmerworld.com/onlinestoreframe.html and search for AFFF
>
>http://www.spausadirect.com/product_pages/motorsportfiresystems.asp?prodID=25
>
>
>Mitch Faatz RV-6A Finish Kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV_8 Pilot" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight being of much use in a
cowling for a flying airplane (due to air velocity). Am I missing something
here? Even race cars would probably have to stop moving then activate a
system to be effective. In the cockpit - now that's a different story.
Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon.
2 cents
Bryan
>
> >>David,
>I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire suppression system could be
>a
>good life saving measure.
>I did some searches on the Matronics archives (RVs) and found mostly
>deriding comments on such a system.
>Their point being, because of the very high air velocity going through the
>engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon gas before it could
>extinguish any fires.
>
>YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you need is AF3... Aqueous
>Film
>Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car guys use for onboard
>fire
>supression. So much better than Halon in this usage for many reasons. I was
>probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression systems back in the
>archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was working some with a
>friend to bring
>some of these systems to the experimental aircraft market before he
>unexpected died and the whole idea kind of dissolved in the wake of his
>death. If
>there's interest, I imagine the idea could be revived.
>
>just my .02
>
>Scott
>N4ZW
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Carter" <dcarter(at)datarecall.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacum Test tool |
Larry,
When a builder designs & installs the pitot-static system, what kind of
"pressure/leak check" fitting/valve should be provided for attaching the cut
end of the rubber hose from the blood pressure cuff's pressure gage and
squeeze-bulb pump?
David
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool
>
> I used a blood pressure cuff. It worked well -- proved I had leaks!!
>
> http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=4
>
> -
> Larry Bowen
> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> http://BowenAero.com
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Mitchell <dfm4290(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I
would use a dry chem extinguisher.
the powder tends to stick to things.
It will make a mess but if your to the point to use it
that will be the least of your problems.
Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years and
the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for
liquid fuel fires.
JMHO
Dale Mitchell
RV-8A MN Wing
--- RV_8 Pilot wrote:
>
>
> I can't see anything of reasonable size or weight
> being of much use in a
> cowling for a flying airplane (due to air velocity).
> Am I missing something
> here? Even race cars would probably have to stop
> moving then activate a
> system to be effective. In the cockpit - now that's
> a different story.
> Foam or Halon... take your pick. I have Halon.
>
> 2 cents
>
> Bryan
>
> >
> > >>David,
> >I'm also one who thinks having an onboard fire
> suppression system could be
> >a
> >good life saving measure.
> >I did some searches on the Matronics archives (RVs)
> and found mostly
> >deriding comments on such a system.
> >Their point being, because of the very high air
> velocity going through the
> >engine compartment; it would disperse the Halon gas
> before it could
> >extinguish any fires.
> >
> >YOU DON'T WANT HALON FOR THIS REASON... what you
> need is AF3... Aqueous
> >Film
> >Forming Foam... It's what the formula one race car
> guys use for onboard
> >fire
> >supression. So much better than Halon in this usage
> for many reasons. I was
> >probably one of the ones deriding fire suppression
> systems back in the
> >archives... before I discovered 'A-triple-F'. I was
> working some with a
> >friend to bring
> >some of these systems to the experimental aircraft
> market before he
> >unexpected died and the whole idea kind of
> dissolved in the wake of his
> >death. If
> >there's interest, I imagine the idea could be
> revived.
> >
> >just my .02
> >
> >Scott
> >N4ZW
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Click on the
> this
> by the
> Admin.
> _->
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Aluminum polishing, recap. |
Listers,
A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs.
I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were
unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about
the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection
of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment
was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!!
While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their
experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually
start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with
better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat that
was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good
polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post.
I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it
partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light
reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how
long does it take to paint?!!
The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal
builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem to
enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting topic
for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits more
prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them
(panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)?
Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the
Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or not?
I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I
found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted airplane
is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the right
hobby?!! ;)
A few Notes of interest:
The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com) will
cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most
expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most
popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of products
(e.g. Rolite) have not switched back.
For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended
for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from Harbor
Freight.
For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo
model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on
e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets,
etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out there.
Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will be
around $150 if you buy plenty.
You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items
I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than $1000
easily.
As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it will
last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up polish,
and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You
don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of
fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much
everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it after
it gets wet.
As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every
body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more
than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on.
Links of interest:
http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html
http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm
http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html
http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html
http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm
http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm
http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm
http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm
One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be
above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also be
important, this should be covered in the material instructions.
So, am I going to polish my -7?
At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You
can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing a
painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done.
And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a
polished airplane:
Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees
it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over
it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and make
matters worse.
So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the urge
of touching it!
Happy holidays,
Amit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vacum Test tool |
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I just slid one hose into the other. It provided a good enough fit for
testing purposes. Nothing fancy.
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
David Carter said:
>
> Larry,
>
> When a builder designs & installs the pitot-static system, what kind of
> "pressure/leak check" fitting/valve should be provided for attaching the
> cut
> end of the rubber hose from the blood pressure cuff's pressure gage and
> squeeze-bulb pump?
>
> David
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Vacum Test tool
>
>
>>
>> I used a blood pressure cuff. It worked well -- proved I had leaks!!
>>
>> http://bowenaero.com/copper/displayimage.php?album=12&pos=4
>>
>> -
>> Larry Bowen
>> Larry(at)BowenAero.com
>> http://BowenAero.com
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | polishing aluminum - addendum. |
One more link, and a few pictures:
I added a few pictures of polished aluminum aircraft to the Yahoo RV7/7a
group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/ click on Photo Albums > Polished
Aluminum.
And, I forgot to mention this link for polishing aluminum reference:
http://www.aircraftpolish.com/
Amit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? |
Hi Bill,
When is it a pain? I'm not flying with my EIS yet, so I
have not heard any of their warnings.
Thanks,
Mickey
>I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although
>it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel to
>add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to
>mute the audio...
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> archive |
| Subject: | Fire Suppression System-items from my personal |
archive
Hi Dale,
Won't the powder totally block your view when flying?
Mickey
>In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I
>would use a dry chem extinguisher.
>the powder tends to stick to things.
>It will make a mess but if your to the point to use it
>that will be the least of your problems.
>Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years and
>the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for
>liquid fuel fires.
>JMHO
>Dale Mitchell
>RV-8A MN Wing
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. |
Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not
mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or a
real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally
polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This process
is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will
end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really look
good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps the
base aluminium, from corroding.
>
>Listers,
>
>A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs.
>I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were
>unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about
>the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection
>of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment
>was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!!
>
>While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their
>experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually
>start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with
>better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat that
>was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good
>polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post.
>
>I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it
>partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light
>reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how
>long does it take to paint?!!
>
>The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal
>builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem to
>enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting topic
>for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits more
>prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them
>(panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)?
>Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the
>Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or not?
>
>I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I
>found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted airplane
>is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the right
>hobby?!! ;)
>
>A few Notes of interest:
>The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com) will
>cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most
>expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most
>popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of products
>(e.g. Rolite) have not switched back.
>
>For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended
>for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from Harbor
>Freight.
>For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo
>model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on
>e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets,
>etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out there.
>
>Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will be
>around $150 if you buy plenty.
>
>You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous items
>I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than $1000
>easily.
>
>As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it will
>last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up polish,
>and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You
>don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of
>fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much
>everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it after
>it gets wet.
>
>As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every
>body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more
>than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on.
>
>Links of interest:
>http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html
>http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm
>http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html
>http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html
>http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm
>http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm
>http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm
>http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm
>
>One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be
>above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also be
>important, this should be covered in the material instructions.
>
>So, am I going to polish my -7?
>At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You
>can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing a
>painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done.
>
>And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a
>polished airplane:
>Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees
>it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over
>it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and make
>matters worse.
>
>So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the urge
>of touching it!
>
>Happy holidays,
>Amit.
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dale Mitchell <dfm4290(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Fire Suppression System-items from my personal archive |
Quite possible but I think it would be for only about
15 to 30 seconds.
I'm only thinking about using it in the engine
compartment.
Dale
--- Mickey Coggins ,
UNEXPECTED_DATA_AFTER_ADDRESS@.SYNTAX-ERROR. wrote:
> archive
>
> Hi Dale,
>
> Won't the powder totally block your view when
> flying?
>
> Mickey
>
> >In my opinion if I use a fire suppression system I
> >would use a dry chem extinguisher.
> >the powder tends to stick to things.
> >It will make a mess but if your to the point to use
> it
> >that will be the least of your problems.
> >Iv Ben on the fire department for about 10 years
> and
> >the dry chem extinguisher tends to work best for
> >liquid fuel fires.
> >JMHO
> >Dale Mitchell
> >RV-8A MN Wing
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/RV-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good.
http://celebrity.mail.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | polishing aluminum |
Maybe it wasn't clear from my earlier post, so let me put it clearly:
I am no expert on the subject, just doing research.
I asked for expert input, and got it on the websites I quoted.
Ofcourse you can have a professional polish your plane. $4,500 is still
cheaper (not by much) than the prices I hear from people who have had their
airplane PAINTED by a professional. Will it take more than 4 days? Why did
the RV-8 builder make it in 4?
In fact I *did* mention there are more than one step, compounding and
polishing.
And if I made it sound easier than it is, well, sorry- that was not the
intention, but how do YOU know? Did you polish an airplane? If so, I would
be very interested if you could share some technical details, or at least
let us know who the professionals that did the polishing on your friends 7
were. That would actually be beneficial for the readers.
As far as your comment about "removing the pure aluminum" (alclad), that is
not entirely correct. Read the link from the Perfect Polish
<http://www.perfectpolish.com/> website:
"Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to Boeing.
As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin
sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7. Apparently
defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished a
section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there. Boeing
says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of
course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad will
be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway."
There is a big difference between corrosion and oxidation. Aluminum oxide
actually protects the aluminum underneath it from corroding. Unlike iron
that just "rusts way", aluminum forms an oxidized layer on the surface that
protects the inside. That is what the Alclad is there for.
So, before you scare everyone from polishing their RV, I suggest you check
your opinions against the facts. Not meaning to sound harsh here, or to
start any list-mud-throwing, just advising caution, specificaly from
individuals who start their words with "Trust me when I say..." only to
follow with OPINIONS.
Not that there is anything wrong with opinions, but they should be presented
as such, not as facts.
Opinion:
n.
A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by
positive knowledge or proof.
Again Scott, this is not meant to offend you in anyway. I hope you
understand that.
Happy holidays,
Amit, a strong believer in personal opinions, but searching for the facts.
----
<bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not
mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or a
real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally
polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This process
is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will
end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really look
good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps the
base aluminium, from corroding.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? |
If I'm doing anything that make the RPM exceed limits, like acro, it just
drives me nuts...
Also, if when I first start I wanted to just warm up the engine until it was
within parameters I could just let the light blink instead of nack'ing all
the alarms, and when alls in the green the light would just go off... I
would go postal if I had to listed to the alarm all that time!
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed?
Hi Bill,
When is it a pain? I'm not flying with my EIS yet, so I
have not heard any of their warnings.
Thanks,
Mickey
>I recently added the audio warning from my EIS to my intercom, and although
>it's nice to have, it can be a pain sometimes... When I rebuild my panel
>to
>add my Blue Mountain Sport, I am going to be putting a small toggle in to
>mute the audio...
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CW Crane <cwcrane(at)gbronline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Vacum Test tool |
David,
A good method for getting small amounts of pressure (or vacuum) is to use a
water column. You can also use it as a vacuum or pressure gauge. One
atmosphere is about 14.7 psi or 30 feet of water. Make a "U" out of a piece of
1/4" vinyl tubing and put some water in the bottom. Connect one end to the
static system and lower the other end. Look at your altimeter while you do this
and get some height above local (1000 ft or so). Tape the open end to something
and leave it alone for a while. If the altimeter still reads the same when you
come back, the static system does not leak.
You can check the pitot system by connecting one end to the pitot tube and raise
the open end while watching the ASI. The ASI should read 100 mph with 4.96" of
water differential.
I thought Kevin Horton's site had the procedures for calibrating the ASI and
checking the static system but it was many moons ago when I last saw it. If you
are interested and don't find it elsewhere, I can post what I have.
CW Crane
>
>Larry,
>
>When a builder designs & installs the pitot-static system, what kind of
>"pressure/leak check" fitting/valve should be provided for attaching the cut
>end of the rubber hose from the blood pressure cuff's pressure gage and
>squeeze-bulb pump?
>
>David
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | polishing aluminum |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Amit Dagan
Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum
"Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to
Boeing.
As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin
sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7.
Apparently
defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished
a
section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there.
Boeing
says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of
course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad
will
be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway."
Amit: I find the above paragraph interesting and it tends to support my
observations of the process. There are several things to think about
when considering polishing/painting. I'll ramble through some that come
to mind in no particular order.
I need about 40 hours/year to polish my RV-4 if I only do it once.
After new metal has been polished several times it becomes smoother and
easier to polish.
Nuvite seems to bring up the color the best.
Less polish is better than more polish. Of course you can use too
little and earn a poor finish.
The more aggressive Nuvite compound helps with tough spots.
Aircraft in maritime climates or humid regions that have wide
temperature swings (winter to summer) are very difficult to maintain
because of water spotting from condensation.
Water spots allowed to stand will leave a spot with a ring around it
that will not readily come off with finishing polish.
The underside of a polished RV takes a terrible beating. Worst in the
center section and flaps.
Wool polishing muffs are too aggressive for me. The result is a sort of
"dazzle" finish. Maybe good for first pass.
I have a Cyclo and have stopped using it. If anyone wants it, I'll sell
it.
Cotton terry fabric (loop side) works better for me than cotton
sweatshirt material.
Synthetic content (even 5%) in the fabric causes trouble, pilling of the
fabric and residual marks on the metal.
I am currently using a 25$ 10" orbital from Lowe's.
I will use up my supply of sweatshirt material and then go back to
cotton terry, preferably new although nearly new is ok.
A well polished aircraft is beautiful.
People cannot keep their hands off it.
Will I polish another? No.
In Michigan I coat the entire airplane with LPS 3 for the late
winter/spring months. Takes a couple of hours.
After the hangar,floor,airframe are warm it takes several hours to
remove the LPS 3. And a lot of towels.
Vinegar based window cleaner is good for removing bugs, dirt etc. Needs
clean towels.
Bugs with blood in them should be cleaned off promptly. So should the
others.
Should you (or anyone) polish? I don't know.
Polished aircraft are beautiful.
They are higher maintenance than painted, although painted aircraft
should probably have routine care that is about the same.
Will I polish another? No, but I will be unhappy if I cannot come up
with a paint scheme that truly pleases me.
Polishing the underside is a real pain.
If you really like the looks of a polished airplane, go for it.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod |
I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling days
and used one of them.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> Hi,
>
> I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store,
> and drilled and tapped it. Photos here:
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040910173454452
>
> Mickey
>
>
> >I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6
> >and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going
> >from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end
> >bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061
> >T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw
> >in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32 thread.
> >What have other people done?..Thanks
> >
> >Fran Malczynski
> >RV-6 N594EF
> >Olcott, NY
> >ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
>
>
>
>
I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling days
and used one of them.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
Hi,
I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store,
and drilled and tapped it. Photos here:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040910173454452
Mickey
I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6
and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going
from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end
bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061
T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw
in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearing
s have a 6-32 thread.
What have other people done?..Thanks
Fran Malczynski
RV-6 N594EF
Olcott, NY
ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
alle, List Admin.
Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Rion Bourgeois" <rion(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: polishing aluminum |
Amit: I agree that you should polish your airplane for several reasons:
1. Historical accuracy. The Army AirForce quit painting their P-51s once
they achieved air superiority over Europe. They didn't polish them and
they weren't expected to last more than a few months in combat, but they
looked cool clad only in alclad. So would your RV-7 which has an empennage
profile intended to look like a P-51. My dad flew unpainted P-51s in the SC
national guard. I have a picture somewhere of about thirty of them lined up
on the ramp.
2. Experimental factor. You won't know what it takes and what it is like
unless you try it. It will be more trouble to polish later if you have to
remove a paint job first. You can always paint it later if you get tired of
maintaining the polish or want to experience the painting experience.
3. It will look good. Three of the best looking RV-4's ever were Dave
Ander's, Gordon Comfort's, and Paul Good's. Dave and Gordon's were totally
polished, and Paul's was partially polished and copied a P-51 warbird paint
scheme. You may have seen Paul's at one of the Chapter 105 breakfasts. I
think Dave painted his after he added the turtle deck, but I'm not sure
about that. I've seen your metal workmanship, and it is worthy of a polish
job. Don't forget to polish the forward side of your prop (if you don't
mind voiding the warranty.)
4. Improved performance. It will be substantially lighter unpainted, so it
will climb better. Dave Anders set some sort of record with his. Some
people claim painting them reduces drag and will increase cruise
performance, though.
5. Will keep you out of trouble and save on vacation expense. Dave Anders
once told me he and his dad polished his RV-4 twice a year. It took them 30
hours to polish and 8 hours to clean. You and Gail will have your vacation
plans taken care of until you paint the plane.
6. Initial cost savings. Have you priced car paint lately? Wow! It will
cost you over a grand for the paint and supplies even if you do it yourself.
7. Caveat. Be sure there are no concave polished surfaces under your
canopy. An RV-4 pilot damaged his canopy when he left it open over a
polished and curved wing root fairing on a sunny day. If you neither paint
nor polish, your skins will either corrode or look like they are corroding.
I can refer you to some local unpolished and unpainted RV-4s if you want to
form an opinion whether it is oxidation or corrosion you are seeing.
If you do polish it, check out Superior Signs in Tigard for your decals. I
may still have my metal gear leg fairing skins if you want polished metal
ones.
Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum
>
> Maybe it wasn't clear from my earlier post, so let me put it clearly:
>
> I am no expert on the subject, just doing research.
>
> I asked for expert input, and got it on the websites I quoted.
>
> Ofcourse you can have a professional polish your plane. $4,500 is still
> cheaper (not by much) than the prices I hear from people who have had
> their
> airplane PAINTED by a professional. Will it take more than 4 days? Why did
> the RV-8 builder make it in 4?
>
> In fact I *did* mention there are more than one step, compounding and
> polishing.
>
> And if I made it sound easier than it is, well, sorry- that was not the
> intention, but how do YOU know? Did you polish an airplane? If so, I would
> be very interested if you could share some technical details, or at least
> let us know who the professionals that did the polishing on your friends 7
> were. That would actually be beneficial for the readers.
>
> As far as your comment about "removing the pure aluminum" (alclad), that
> is
> not entirely correct. Read the link from the Perfect Polish
> <http://www.perfectpolish.com/> website:
>
> "Will repeated polishing remove the Alcad coating? Not according to
> Boeing.
> As a quality control measure Boeing polishes all of their exterior skin
> sections after forming using robotic polishers and Nuvite F-7. Apparently
> defects in the skin are easier to spot when polished. They once polished a
> section 370 times and the surface cladding (Alcad) was still there. Boeing
> says that polishing does not remove metal, it just 'turns it over'. Of
> course if the surface is badly corroded or has been sanded, the Alcad will
> be gone. But it will polish up nicely anyway."
>
> There is a big difference between corrosion and oxidation. Aluminum oxide
> actually protects the aluminum underneath it from corroding. Unlike iron
> that just "rusts way", aluminum forms an oxidized layer on the surface
> that
> protects the inside. That is what the Alclad is there for.
>
> So, before you scare everyone from polishing their RV, I suggest you check
> your opinions against the facts. Not meaning to sound harsh here, or to
> start any list-mud-throwing, just advising caution, specificaly from
> individuals who start their words with "Trust me when I say..." only to
> follow with OPINIONS.
>
> Not that there is anything wrong with opinions, but they should be
> presented
> as such, not as facts.
>
> Opinion:
> n.
> A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by
> positive knowledge or proof.
>
> Again Scott, this is not meant to offend you in anyway. I hope you
> understand that.
>
> Happy holidays,
> Amit, a strong believer in personal opinions, but searching for the facts.
>
>
> ----
> <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
>
> Trust me when I say your making it sound easier than it is. You are not
> mentioning what level of finish you are striving for, a quick polish, or a
> real polish job. I have some friends who had their 7 professionally
> polished, it took way longer than 4 days, and cost, $4500.00. This process
> is not a one step process, there are multiple steps which means you will
> end up polishing the entire plane 3 maybe 4 times to get it to really look
> good. You will also be removing the pure aluminium coating, which keeps
> the
> base aluminium, from corroding.
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kathleen (rv7)" <kathleen(at)rv7.us> |
I looked at it, but I'm using a shop vacuum with a rheostat to reduce the
output. It's cleaned up with a clean filter (of course) and I purchased a
fresh air hood with full-face front and air port in back. Total cost was
around $35 not including the piece of garden hose I used for the hookup. It
works fine and is about equivalent to the Hobby Air in flow.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg@itmack
Subject: RV-List: Hobbyair Pro
Anyone using the Hobbyair Pro that can give comments.
Thanks
Greg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Autopilot GPS source switch |
I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but I want to buy
a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance GPS and the GRT EFIS output
to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this on someone's website. If I have
the Lowrance driving the autopilot I still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't
find it now.
What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going to be wired
up?
Thanks,
Lucky
I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but I want to buy
a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance GPS and the GRT EFIS output
to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this on someone's website. If I have
the Lowrance driving the autopilot I still want it to alsofeed the EFIS. Can't
find it now.
What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going to be wired
up?
Thanks,
Lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Rocket Insurance |
Hey you closet rocket guys on the list live Vince and Tom, what's your insurance
like on your plane? Did it go up recently too?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
> Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>
> 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> required)
>
> 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000
> 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>
> 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
>
> All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
> tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like
> a Citabria.
>
> Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
> that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even
> to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>
> Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>
> JT
>
>
>
> --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is
> it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to
> work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think
> represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
> w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
> and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Hey you closet rocket guys on the list live Vince and Tom, what's your insurance
like on your plane? Did it go up recently too?
-------------- Original message --------------
Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
40k builders risk $400 to $500
85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
required)
85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to $3000
85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
$2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy above).
All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in a
tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something like
a Citabria.
Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be aware
&g
t; that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved even
to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
JT
--- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
<KTLKRN@C...>wrote:
Hi JT,
Since this list is always in flux with new members and builders is
it
possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
policies but
for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for us to
work
with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I think
represent
some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
Examples for a builders policy:
$40K (airframe only)
$85K (airframe, engine, avion
ics in house)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real time
w/Van's
checkout)
Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time w/endorsement
and Van's
checkout.
2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From: <JHELMS@I...>
&g
t; To:
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John D. Heath" <alto_q(at)direcway.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trio Autopilot Control Rod |
Arrows make good push rods. Inserts used to install hunting and field heads
would work just as well for a rod end bearing.
John D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio Autopilot Control Rod
>
> I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling
> days and used one of them.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store,
>> and drilled and tapped it. Photos here:
>>
>> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040910173454452
>>
>> Mickey
>>
>>
>> >I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying
>> >RV6
>> >and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going
>> >from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end
>> >bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding
>> >6061
>> >T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can
>> >screw
>> >in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearings have a 6-32
>> >thread.
>> >What have other people done?..Thanks
>> >
>> >Fran Malczynski
>> >RV-6 N594EF
>> >Olcott, NY
>> >ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
>>
>> --
>> Mickey Coggins
>> http://www.rv8.ch/
>> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> I had some carbon fiber pushrods laying around from my 'big' RC modelling
> days and used one of them.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: Mickey Coggins
>
> Hi,
>
> I bought some solid aluminium tubing from a local hardware store,
> and drilled and tapped it. Photos here:
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040910173454452
>
> Mickey
>
>
> I m trying to install a recently purchased Trio autopilot in a flying RV6
> and Im looking for what other installers used for the control rod going
> from the servo to the control stick. Id like to use the existing rod end
> bearings sent with the auto pilot, but Im not having any luck finding 6061
> T6 tubing that has a thick enough wall to tap the ends so that I can screw
> in the existing rod end bearings. The rod end bearing
> s have a 6-32 thread.
> What have other people done?..Thanks
>
> Fran Malczynski
> RV-6 N594EF
> Olcott, NY
> ebbfmm(at)yahoo.com
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
> alle, List Admin.
> Share: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. |
Amit Dagan wrote:
>
>Listers,
>
>A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of RVs.
>I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were
>unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about
>the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the reflection
>of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment
>was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!!
>
>
>
Amit
Being in the hanger next to you I can vouch for the excellent
workmanship on your RV. I am not the one the mentioned melted
canopy, but I have seen it with my own eyes on an RV-6. I also talked to
an owner of an polished RV-4 from
Calif. that had melted his canopy from reflective heat off of the wing.
Before you do it I would suggest that you stand by a
well polished airplane on a hot sunny day.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. |
Amit:
The comment "you can always paint a polished surface" might be a little
mis-leading. You certainly can but I think it would be very difficult to
get all the polishing residue and various other contaminants out of every
rivet dimple and seam.
When discussing paint prep a painter told me the only difficult problem to
overcome was cleaning a previously polished surface.
Dick Sipp
----- Original Message -----
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Aluminum polishing, recap.
>
> Listers,
>
> A few days ago I started a thread about polishing the aluminum skins of
> RVs.
> I specifically requested reasons for and against it. Most responds were
> unanimous about how beautiful a good polishing job looks, but warned about
> the time consumed, and several warned of the blinding effect (the
> reflection
> of light - and even worse - heat) on the pilot. One "I heard that" comment
> was made as to a case of the heat actually melting a canopy!!
>
> While on the subject, I e-mailed some Air Stream trailer folks about their
> experience with polishing (Alclad aluminum). These guys (and gals) usually
> start with a badly corroded 40-old project, and finish with
> better-than-mirror skins. Moreover, some need to remove the clear coat
> that
> was originally applied to the skins at the Air Stream factory. A good
> polishing story may be found at the links at the bottom of this post.
>
> I also e-mailed a gentleman that has recently completed an RV-8 and has it
> partially polished and part painted. He had no problem with light
> reflection, and he lives in California. It took him 4 days to polish, how
> long does it take to paint?!!
>
> The more I look into it, the more I am surprised that RV sheet metal
> builders are not more proud to show their metal work. The Sonex guys seem
> to
> enjoy showing their bird's skins much more. It might be an interesting
> topic
> for sociological research: Are builders of more and more complete kits
> more
> prone to just having someone professional do parts of the project FOR them
> (panel, paint, aftermarket fiberglass fairings)?
> Is paint vs. polish just a fashion thing, i.e. is the "retro look" of the
> Temco Swift or the early airliners bound to make a comeback shortly, or
> not?
>
> I am sending this post to the request of those who wanted to know what I
> found out, definitely not for the naysayer, who believes a painted
> airplane
> is more practical (if you want practical, are you sure you are in the
> right
> hobby?!! ;)
>
> A few Notes of interest:
> The compounding chemicals from the Nuvite company (nuvitechemical.com)
> will
> cost less than $100 for the project. And Nuvite probably has the most
> expensive line of compounds. My research has shown Nuvite to be the most
> popular rout, and some that have switched to it from other lines of
> products
> (e.g. Rolite) have not switched back.
>
> For the tools, a $50 1/2" chuck drill that turns ~ 1000RPM is recommended
> for the "compounding" stage, or you could use a $25 car polisher from
> Harbor
> Freight.
> For the fine polishing, a random orbit dual head tool called the "Cyclo
> model 5" is recommended. A new one is $270, but you can find them used on
> e-bay for less, or you can get a new one with accessories (pads, bonnets,
> etc) for a bargain $335. Both pneumatic and electrical models are out
> there.
>
> Wool bonnets, buffing pads, polishing cloth etc. - for a small plane will
> be
> around $150 if you buy plenty.
>
> You'll need some mineral spirits for cleaning, and a few miscellaneous
> items
> I probably am not aware of, but you can see that it will be less than
> $1000
> easily.
>
> As far as up-keep, the better the first polishing job is, the longer it
> will
> last, the less work you will have at the yearly or 6-month touch up
> polish,
> and from year to year it will be longer and longer between polishes. You
> don't do the whole compounding and polishing deal, only the last stage of
> fine polishing at those times. Hangaring your RV (which pretty much
> everybody is doing anyway) will help a lot, as well as hand drying it
> after
> it gets wet.
>
> As for waxing - it is actually not recommended nor needed. Of course every
> body that has ever polished anything (or hasn't!) has an opinion (or more
> than one) on one or more of the subjects I touched on.
>
> Links of interest:
> http://www.irinfo.com/polish/html/polish.html
> http://www.russellw.com/planes/ryan/polishing.htm
> http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Compounding.html
> http://www.tompatterson.com/Trailers/Polish/Nuvite.html
> http://www.nuvitechemical.com/Prod%20Pages/Aircraft%20Page.htm
> http://www.perfectpolish.com/AirstreamProject.htm
> http://globetrotter64.home.att.net/complete.htm
> http://www.perfectpolish.com/Quick%20Guide.htm
>
> One tip you wont find in these links the ambient temperature needs to be
> above 65F for the polisher to do its thing. I suppose humidity will also
> be
> important, this should be covered in the material instructions.
>
> So, am I going to polish my -7?
> At this point I am undecided, but you can guess what I think about it. You
> can always go and paint a polished skin, just etch it and paint. Polishing
> a
> painted surface involves stripping the paint, but that too can be done.
>
> And finally, for the sake of educating the masses, from the owner of a
> polished airplane:
> Maybe the biggest problem with a polished AC is that everyone who sees
> it wants to touch it, then they make a scratch by rubbing their hands over
> it and continue to "FIX" the scratches by taking their shirt sleeve and
> make
> matters worse.
>
> So, the next time you see a polished skin, PLEASE don't give in to the
> urge
> of touching it!
>
> Happy holidays,
> Amit.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings? |
Thank your for all answers off and on the list.
This morning I was able to drive out the bearings with a punch through
the axle hole.
Just took a bit more force than I expected.
They are not easy to clean, and for next year's annual I'll be sure to
have a new set on hand. (Less than $3 a piece from Vans. Shipping is
probably going to cost more than the bearings :)
Finn
George P. Tyler wrote:
>
>On my 6 I found it easier and not very expensive to replace the wheel.
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Finn Lassen" <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
>>
>>I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get
>>the darned things out to inspect/replace?
>>
>>Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225.
>>3/8" axle bolt.
>>I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel.
>>
>>Finn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Autopilot GPS source switch |
lucky wrote:
>
> I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but I
> want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance GPS
> and the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this on
> someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I
> still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now.
>
> What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going
> to be wired up?
Not sure I can totally answer your question since it seems you described
two different scenarios. If you want to select the NMEA feed to the
EZ-Pilot to originate from either the Lowrance *or* the EFIS, a simple
SPDT toggle switch will do the trick. I have this arrangement on my
panel so I can select either the Airmap 100 or AnyWhereMap to drive the
EZ-Pilot. The only wire being switched is the NMEA data from each
device. Unfortunately, Control Vision is not yet providing a standard
NMEA data stream from AnyWhereMap so the EZ-Pilot can't digest the data
from AWM. The autopilot works perfectly with the Lowrance, however.
But, in the same paragraph you seem to imply you want to have the
Lowrance simultaneously sending NMEA data to the EFIS. You lost me
there. Sorry.
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone" campaign and
consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more percent as it seems
it would still be considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get involved
and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV owners and
try it.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
> The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> owners) 5 years ago.
>
> Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>
> Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> without them making money on that book of business.
>
> There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> were still working very hard for those customers.
>
> For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
>
> --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> above).
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi JT,
> > > >
> > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> builders is
> > > it
> > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> us to
> > > work
> > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> think
> > > represent
> > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > >
> > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> time
> > > w/Van's
> > > > checkout)
> > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > >
> > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > >
> > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > > checkout.
> > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > >
> > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > >
> > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From:
> > > > To:
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > >
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > >
> > > U.S./Canada
> > > >
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
> > >
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>
> > >
> > >
> > > > 28979569>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone" campaign and
consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more percent as it seems
it would still be considerably cheaper than the alternatives.
We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get involved
and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV owners and
try it.
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
owners) 5 years ago.
Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
without them making money on that book of business.
There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
were still working very hard for those customers.
For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
very important that the see and understand the risks they are
insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
John "JT" Helms
Branch Manager
NationAir Insurance Agency
--- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
Vanguard program?
What happened out there?
-------------- Original message --------------
One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
have about
500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
few in a 185,
the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
vary with say
100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
Brent Travis
N999BT
RV-4
_____
From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
Se
nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
40k builders risk $400 to $500
85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
required)
85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
$3000
85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
$2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
above).
All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
a
tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
like
a Citabria.
Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
aware
that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
even
to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
JT
--- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
wrote:
Hi JT,
Since this list is always in flux with new members and
builders is
it
possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
policies but
for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
us to
work
with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
think
represent
some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
Examples for a builders policy:
$40K (airframe only)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
$85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
time
w/Van's
checkout)
P
ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
w/endorsement
and Van's
checkout.
2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
Darwin N. Barrie
Chandler AZ
----- Original Message -----
From:
To:
Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
Subje
ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
Get unlimited calls to
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
U.S./Canada
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
:/clk.a
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
28979569
:HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
_____
&g
t;
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
Terms of Service.
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
Online help on this group at:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.cc.ca.us> |
>
> How do you replace the tailwheel bearings?
>
> I've searched the archives and found part numbers, but how do you get
> the darned things out to inspect/replace?
>
> Mine is an R&K, 6 X 225.
> 3/8" axle bolt.
> I assume that is the "standard" tailwheel.
Bearings come out fairly easy, I didn't like how they fit though within the
TW assembly, so I made a spacer for inside, between the bearings much like a
stub shaft inside a preloaded steering drive axel commonly used in today's
cars.
This allows one to tighten the the tail wheel bolt enough for the bolt to
not spin.
But that all said, does anyone know of a valid criteria by which to
determine of a tail wheel is worn out?
W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I expect
to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps that
insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a log
book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's annual.
I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage was
void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve our
performance is all I am suggesting.
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
alternatives.
>
> We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV
owners and try it.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> >
> >
> >
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > have about
> > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > few in a 185,
> > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > vary with say
> > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Brent Travis
> > > >
> > > > N999BT
> > > >
> > > > RV-4
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > >
> > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > required)
> > > >
> > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > >
> > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> > > >
> > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > a
> > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > like
> > > > a Citabria.
> > > >
> > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > even
> > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > >
> > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > >
> > > > JT
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > >
> > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> > > > it
> > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > policies but
> > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > us to
> > > > work
> > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > think
> > > > represent
> > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > >
> > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > >
> > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > time
> > > > w/Van's
> > > > > checkout)
> > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > >
> > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > >
> > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > > > and Van's
> > > > > checkout.
> > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > >
> > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > From:
> > > > > To:
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > >
> > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > >
> > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> > > >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > 28979569>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _____
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > >
> > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Terms of Service.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
alternatives.
>
> We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the RV
owners and try it.
>
> Lucky
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> owners) 5 years ago.
>
> Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>
> Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> without them making money on that book of business.
>
> There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> were still working very hard for those customers.
>
> For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>
> John "JT" Helms
> Branch Manager
> NationAir Insurance Agency
>
> --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
>
> whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> Vanguard program?
>
> What happened out there?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> have about
> 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> few in a 185,
> the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> vary with say
> 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
>
>
> Brent Travis
>
> N999BT
>
> RV-4
>
>
> _____
>
> From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> Se
> nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>
>
> Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>
> 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> required)
>
> 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> $3000
> 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>
> 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> above).
>
>
> All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> a
> tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> like
> a Citabria.
>
> Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> aware
> that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> even
> to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>
> Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>
> JT
>
>
> --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> wrote:
>
> Hi JT,
>
> Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> builders is
>
> it
> possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> policies but
> for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> us to
> work
> with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> think
> represent
> some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>
> Examples for a builders policy:
> $40K (airframe only)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> time
> w/Van's
> checkout)
> P
> ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>
> Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>
> And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> w/endorsement
> and Van's
> checkout.
> 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>
> Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>
> Darwin N. Barrie
> Chandler AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From:
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> Subje
> ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> Get unlimited calls to
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> U.S./Canada
>
> oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> :/clk.a
>
> tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>
>
> 28979569
>
>
> :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
>
>
> _____
> &g
> t;
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
>
> Terms of Service.
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>
> Online help on this group at:
> http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>
>
> * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>
> * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> is subject to:
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Replace tailwheel bearings |
Hi Larry.
Cleaning and greasing ("re-packing") the main wheel bearings appear to
be standard procedure during any annual.
So after 500 hours, I figured I ought to do the same with the tailwheel,
even though I had no symptoms of bearing failure.
However, unlike the main wheel bearings, the tailwheel bearings are
nearly impossible to clean and regrease "by hand". I'm now of the opnion
that they should not be taken apart and instead simply be regreased by
using the nipple. This will force in new fresh grease and force out the
old grease. Possibly you'll want to loosen the axle bolt while doing it
to allow a bit bigger opening for the grease to come out - I haven't
tried it yet.
Finn
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
> I am wondering about what symptoms you were getting that prompted you
> to want to replace the wheel bearings as you posted recently on the
> RV-List. I ask this because I had not heard of it before this recent
> list thread. I don't recall it being on anyone's annual inspection
> "to do" list. I had in my mind to grease the fitting on the tail
> wheel swivel and replace the entire wheel assembly, including
> bearings, when it shows wear. Apparently this may not be wholesome
> thinking on my part. Please share your thoughts on my comments if you
> don't mind. Also in removing the bearings, do you think a pressure
> type press would work in pushing out the bearing sleeve rather than
> using a hammer as you did. I seem to break things more easily with
> hammers. Thanks.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bobby Hester" <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 09:26 (CDT)
> Subject: RV-List: ACS 2002
>
>
> Time to decide on engine monitor. Appreciate any feed back on users of ACS
> 2002.
> PROS & CONS and who has best price.
>
> Thanks,
> Doug Preston
> RV7A
> N196VA
>
Here is the link from their site of all the distributors:
Ready to order? Check out our distributors and compare prices.
http://www.advanced-control-systems.com/distributors.html
I beleive I bought mine from Van's at that time they had the best price.
I have installed one in mine but it won't fly for another year :-(
Dan Checkoway has one in his plane and I beleive he loves it!
http://www.rvproject.com/
-------
Surfing the web from Hopkinsville, KY
RV7A web site: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. |
In a message dated 12/9/04 8:56:43 PM Central Standard Time,
jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net writes:
> Before you do it I would suggest that you stand by a
> well polished airplane on a hot sunny day.
Just flying around on a sunny day in my (still) unpainted and unpolished
plane can be absolutely brutal when the sun is reflecting off the wing at the
right angle- enough to force a course change. Actually "tacked" for a while
headed to S&F this year!
Mark -6A, 135 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kosta Lewis" <mikel(at)dimensional.com> |
| Subject: | Finding polished airplanes in SAR |
>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
experience?
ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
them?
The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
IMHO
Michael
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JT Helms" <jhelms(at)nationair.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
and
The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
expect
> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
that
> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
log
> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
annual.
> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
was
> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
our
> performance is all I am suggesting.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
> To: "RV-List" ;
> Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > > >
> > > > What happened out there?
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > >
> > > > > N999BT
> > > > >
> > > > > RV-4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > >
> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > required)
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > >
> > > > > JT
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > > > > it
> > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > policies but
> > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > > > work
> > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > > > represent
> > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > >
> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > have about
> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > few in a 185,
> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > vary with say
> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> >
> >
> > Brent Travis
> >
> > N999BT
> >
> > RV-4
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > Se
> > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> >
> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > required)
> >
> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> >
> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> >
> >
> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > a
> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > like
> > a Citabria.
> >
> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > even
> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> >
> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> >
> > it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > us to
> > work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > think
> > represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > time
> > w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > P
> > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subje
> > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> >
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > Get unlimited calls to
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > U.S./Canada
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > 28979569
> >
> >
> > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> >
> >
> > _____
> > &g
> > t;
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> > is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Hull, Don" <Donald.C.Hull(at)nasa.gov> |
| Subject: | polishing aluminum - addendum. |
Amit,
I enjoyed reading your posts and the responses by several readers. As a
reader myself, I offer this response consisting of three parts:
1) I was surprised Dan Checkoway didn't respond since his web site reflects
(no pun intended) his recent adventure with polishing some surfaces of his
RV-7. Dan, are you reading this?
2) The most recent EAA Sport Aviation magazine has a feature article about
Sonex builder Tony Spicer (the first customer of Sonex, Ltd) who polishes
his Sonex once a year. Admittedly, a Sonex is not as big as an RV, but my
memory tells me he only spends 8-10 hours per year polishing his Sonex.
FWIW, Sonex surfaces are 6061 rather than 2024 Alclad.
3) And last but not least, my wife mentioned the other day, without any
prompting from anyone, how pretty she thought polished aluminum airplanes
are. Her next question was, "When you finish your RV-7, why don't you
polish it rather than paint it?" I answered with something like, "It'll be
a while before I have to make that decision."
Thanks for initiating a useful thread and then providing the results of your
research.
BTW, keep us informed of the polishing vs. painting decision on your RV.
Don
-----Original Message-----
From: Amit Dagan [mailto:amitdagan(at)hotmail.com]
Subject: RV-List: polishing aluminum - addendum.
One more link, and a few pictures:
I added a few pictures of polished aluminum aircraft to the Yahoo RV7/7a
group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7and7A/ click on Photo Albums > Polished
Aluminum.
And, I forgot to mention this link for polishing aluminum reference:
http://www.aircraftpolish.com/
Amit.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR |
>... You DO have an
>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
Interesting post. What do you recommend for the kit?
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Shannon" <kshannon(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | sheared wingtip lighting |
Does anyone know if a recessed lighting option is available anywhere for
the sheared type wingtips?
Kevin Shannon
RV 8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A in
the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks in,
etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful RV6A
less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident was
sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance company
had to total the airplane and pay for it.
And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance rates
keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
and
The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
expect
> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
that
> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
log
> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
annual.
> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
was
> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
our
> performance is all I am suggesting.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>
> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
> To: "RV-List" ;
> Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > > >
> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > > >
> > > > What happened out there?
> > > >
> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > >
> > > > > N999BT
> > > > >
> > > > > RV-4
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > >
> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > required)
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > >
> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > > > >
> > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > >
> > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > >
> > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > >
> > > > > JT
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > > > > it
> > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > policies but
> > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > > > work
> > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > > > represent
> > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > >
> > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > From:
> > > > > > To:
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > > > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _____
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > >
> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> alternatives.
> >
> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
RV
> owners and try it.
> >
> > Lucky
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > owners) 5 years ago.
> >
> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> >
> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > without them making money on that book of business.
> >
> > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > were still working very hard for those customers.
> >
> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> >
> > John "JT" Helms
> > Branch Manager
> > NationAir Insurance Agency
> >
> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> >
> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > Vanguard program?
> >
> > What happened out there?
> >
> > -------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > have about
> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > few in a 185,
> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > vary with say
> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> >
> >
> > Brent Travis
> >
> > N999BT
> >
> > RV-4
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > Se
> > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> >
> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > required)
> >
> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > $3000
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> >
> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > above).
> >
> >
> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > a
> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > like
> > a Citabria.
> >
> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > aware
> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > even
> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> >
> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> >
> > JT
> >
> >
> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > wrote:
> >
> > Hi JT,
> >
> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > builders is
> >
> > it
> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > policies but
> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > us to
> > work
> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > think
> > represent
> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> >
> > Examples for a builders policy:
> > $40K (airframe only)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > time
> > w/Van's
> > checkout)
> > P
> > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> >
> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> >
> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > w/endorsement
> > and Van's
> > checkout.
> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> >
> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> >
> > Darwin N. Barrie
> > Chandler AZ
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From:
> > To:
> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > Subje
> > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> >
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > Get unlimited calls to
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > U.S./Canada
> >
> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > :/clk.a
> >
> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> >
> >
> > 28979569
> >
> >
> > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> >
> >
> > _____
> > &g
> > t;
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> >
> > Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> >
> > Online help on this group at:
> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> >
> >
> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> >
> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> >
> > is subject to:
> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: sheared wingtip lighting |
Hey Kevin... I have a lighting salutation for the sheared tips...
www.creativair.com
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Shannon" <kshannon(at)seanet.com>
Subject: RV-List: sheared wingtip lighting
Does anyone know if a recessed lighting option is available anywhere for
the sheared type wingtips?
Kevin Shannon
RV 8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Finding polished airplanes in SAR |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kosta Lewis
Subject: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
experience?
>>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
IMHO
Michael
Some years ago, a buddy of mine painted his Comanche "Federal Safety
Orange". I called it dangerous orange because you couldn't hardly look
at it. Sunlight reflecting off the wings in flight was especially hard
to deal with. He eventually got around to painting a chocolate stripe on
the side and it actually looked pretty good.
We were flying up the Little Colorado River canyon and below the rim
walls one time when he turn to me and asked if I'd ever flown under a
bridge. I told him that he could do what he wanted but to remember that
he was flying the most recognizable airplane in the 11 western states.
He thought about it for a couple more miles and then pulled up out of
the canyon before we reached Cameron.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Red 6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | GRT EFIS.... is the audio warning needed? |
Audio~~
On any system with audio warnings the audio should be able to be shut off
just like a CD player or anything else, Murphy does live, and if you are at a
tower field and the system has gone wild with warnings you need to shut it off
for safety. On our AOA system the instructions state to install a dedicated
switch to the system. In our case it shuts the entire system off as only takes
a few seconds to restart & self test. If there is a warning it needs to be
shut off anyway except while doing setup.
Tests over the years have proven the safety advantage of audio alerts,
buzzers will not pass new certification standards, voice warnings are mandatory.
Elbie
EM Aviation
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
Thats right rates aregoing up. I just talked with the NationAir people and
they told me rates will go up about 10~20%. Also told me that tail wheel
drivers on the EAA insurance plan have gone up 50%!!! Glad I have the nose
wheel!
>
>I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A in
>the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks in,
>etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
>
>Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful RV6A
>less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
>towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident was
>sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance company
>had to total the airplane and pay for it.
>
>And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance rates
>keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
>
>Just my 2 cents.
>
>Cheers,
>Stein.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
>How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
>
>and
>
>The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
>such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
>would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
>hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
>
>JT
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> >
> > I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> > to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> > risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> > this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> > to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
>expect
> > to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
>that
> > insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
>log
> > book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> > acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> > annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
>annual.
> > I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> > and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> > manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
>was
> > void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> > off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> > judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
>our
> > performance is all I am suggesting.
> >
> > Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
> >
> > The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> > in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> > in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> > - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
> > To: "RV-List" ;
> > Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
>RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > > >
> > > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > > >
> > > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > > >
> > > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > > >
> > > > John "JT" Helms
> > > > Branch Manager
> > > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > > Vanguard program?
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened out there?
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > > have about
> > > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > > few in a 185,
> > > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > > vary with say
> > > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > N999BT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RV-4
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > > required)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > > $3000
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > > above).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > > a
> > > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > > like
> > > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > > aware
> > > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > > even
> > > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JT
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > > builders is
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > > policies but
> > > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > > us to
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > > think
> > > > > > represent
> > > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > > time
> > > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > > w/endorsement
> > > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > > >
> > > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > >
> > > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
>RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Se
> > > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > >
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JT,
> > >
> > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > >
> > > it
> > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > work
> > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > represent
> > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > >
> > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > w/Van's
> > > checkout)
> > > P
> > > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > >
> > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > checkout.
> > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > >
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > Subje
> > > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > >
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > U.S./Canada
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > 28979569
> > >
> > >
> > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > > &g
> > > t;
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > is subject to:
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J. Rion Bourgeois" <rion(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
Stein: The purpose of hull insurance coverage is to compensate the owner in
the event of damage or loss of the AC whether caused by owner/pilot
negligence, mechanical defect, weather, hangar fire, hurricane or whatever.
If you exclude coverage of losses due to pilot error,the premium goes down,
but so does the value of the coverage. If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion? That type of hull coverage
is available at a reduced premium, presumably because the risk of pilot
error, among other risks, has been excluded by the actuaries. Rion
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A
> in
> the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks
> in,
> etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
>
> Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful
> RV6A
> less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
> towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident
> was
> sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance
> company
> had to total the airplane and pay for it.
>
> And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance
> rates
> keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Cheers,
> Stein.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
>
> and
>
> The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
> such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that
> it
> would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
> hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
>>
>>
>> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what
>> seems
>> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
>> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling
>> our
>> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest
>> ways
>> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
> expect
>> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
> that
>> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
> log
>> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
>> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
>> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
> annual.
>> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
>> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
>> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
> was
>> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about
>> flying
>> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
>> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
> our
>> performance is all I am suggesting.
>>
>> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
>>
>> The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
>> in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
>> in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
>> - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
>> To: "RV-List" ;
>> Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
>> campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
>> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
>> alternatives.
>> >
>> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
>> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
> RV
>> owners and try it.
>> >
>> > Lucky
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
>> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
>> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
>> > > owners) 5 years ago.
>> > >
>> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
>> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
>> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
>> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>> > >
>> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
>> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
>> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
>> > > without them making money on that book of business.
>> > >
>> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
>> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
>> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
>> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
>> > >
>> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
>> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
>> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
>> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
>> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>> > >
>> > > John "JT" Helms
>> > > Branch Manager
>> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
>> > >
>> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
>> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
>> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
>> > > Vanguard program?
>> > > >
>> > > > What happened out there?
>> > > >
>> > > > -------------- Original message --------------
>> > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
>> > > have about
>> > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
>> > > few in a 185,
>> > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
>> > > vary with say
>> > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Brent Travis
>> > > > >
>> > > > > N999BT
>> > > > >
>> > > > > RV-4
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _____
>> > > > >
>> > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
>> > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
>> > > > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
>> > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
>> > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
>> > > > > required)
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
>> > > $3000
>> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
>> > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
>> > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>> > > > >
>> > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
>> > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
>> > > above).
>> > > > >
>> > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
>> > > a
>> > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
>> > > like
>> > > > > a Citabria.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
>> > > aware
>> > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
>> > > even
>> > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > JT
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
>> > > > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi JT,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
>> > > builders is
>> > > > > it
>> > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
>> > > > > policies but
>> > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
>> > > us to
>> > > > > work
>> > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
>> > > think
>> > > > > represent
>> > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
>> > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
>> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
>> > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
>> > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
>> > > time
>> > > > > w/Van's
>> > > > > > checkout)
>> > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
>> > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
>> > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
>> > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
>> > > w/endorsement
>> > > > > and Van's
>> > > > > > checkout.
>> > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
>> > > > > > Chandler AZ
>> > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
>> > > > > > From:
>> > > > > > To:
>> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
>> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Online help on this group at:
>> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Get unlimited calls to
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > U.S./Canada
>> > > > > >
>> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > > :/clk.a
>> > > > >
>> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
>> > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > 28979569>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > _____
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> > > > >
>> > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Terms of Service.
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > Online help on this group at:
>> > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>> > >
>> > > Online help on this group at:
>> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> > >
>> > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>> > >
>> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> > >
>> >
>> > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
>> campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
>> percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
>> alternatives.
>> >
>> > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
>> involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
> RV
>> owners and try it.
>> >
>> > Lucky
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> >
>> > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
>> > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
>> > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
>> > owners) 5 years ago.
>> >
>> > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
>> > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
>> > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
>> > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
>> >
>> > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
>> > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
>> > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
>> > without them making money on that book of business.
>> >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
>> > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
>> > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
>> > were still working very hard for those customers.
>> >
>> > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
>> > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
>> > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
>> > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
>> > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
>> >
>> > John "JT" Helms
>> > Branch Manager
>> > NationAir Insurance Agency
>> >
>> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
>> >
>> > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
>> > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
>> >
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
>> > Vanguard program?
>> >
>> > What happened out there?
>> >
>> > -------------- Original message --------------
>> >
>> >
>> > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
>> > have about
>> > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
>> > few in a 185,
>> > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
>> > vary with say
>> > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
>> >
>> >
>> > Brent Travis
>> >
>> > N999BT
>> >
>> > RV-4
>> >
>> >
>> > _____
>> >
>> > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
>> > Se
>> > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
>> > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
>> > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> >
>> >
>> > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
>> >
>> > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
>> > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
>> > required)
>> >
>> > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
>> > $3000
>> > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
>> > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
>> > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
>> >
>> > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
>> > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
>> > above).
>> >
>> >
>> > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
>> > a
>> > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
>> > like
>> > a Citabria.
>> >
>> > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
>> > aware
>> > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
>> > even
>> > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
>> >
>> > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
>> >
>> > JT
>> >
>> >
>> > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi JT,
>> >
>> > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
>> > builders is
>> >
>> > it
>> > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
>> > policies but
>> > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
>> > us to
>> > work
>> > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
>> > think
>> > represent
>> > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
>> >
>> > Examples for a builders policy:
>> > $40K (airframe only)
>> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
>> > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
>> >
>> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
>> > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
>> > time
>> > w/Van's
>> > checkout)
>> > P
>> > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
>> >
>> > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
>> > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
>> > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
>> >
>> > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
>> > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
>> > w/endorsement
>> > and Van's
>> > checkout.
>> > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
>> >
>> > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
>> >
>> > Darwin N. Barrie
>> > Chandler AZ
>> > ----- Original Message -----
>> > From:
>> > To:
>> > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
>> > Subje
>> > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
>> >
>> >
>> > Online help on this group at:
>> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> >
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> >
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > Get unlimited calls to
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > U.S./Canada
>> >
>> > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
>> > :/clk.a
>> >
>> > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
>> >
>> >
>> > 28979569
>> >
>> >
>> > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
>> >
>> >
>> > _____
>> > &g
>> > t;
>> >
>> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> >
>> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> >
>> > Terms of Service.
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> > Online help on this group at:
>> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> >
>> >
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
>> >
>> > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
>> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
>> >
>> > Online help on this group at:
>> > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
>> >
>> >
>> > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
>> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
>> >
>> > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>> > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>> >
>> > is subject to:
>> > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jenny Geiger" <Jgeiger3(at)vt.edu> |
| Subject: | unsuscribe listserv |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
>>>If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion?<<<
Because sometimes a wind gust, woodchuck hole, or vapor lock is not the pilot's
fault? Just a guess...
-BB
no dog in this fight as I have liability-only coverage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
As long as we are on an insurance thread again, may I put a good word in for
the NationAir Vanguard program? Many of you will remember that my RV-4 was
destroyed by the hurricanes this past September. I was very pleased with
the service I received from NationAir. Their adjuster came to see the RV-4
here in Vero Beach shortly after the hurricane, and within a few days I had
my check for the full insured value minus the $50 deductible. No fuss, no
muss. Outstanding service, no question about it. OK, so there was nothing
contentious, but neither were they looking for any problems or "loopholes."
Kudos to JT and his crew.
Pat Hatch
----- Original Message -----
From: "JT Helms" <jhelms(at)nationair.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
>
> and
>
> The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
> such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that
> it
> would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
> hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
>
> JT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "GEORGE INMAN" <ghinman(at)allstream.net> |
| Subject: | Battery tray suport cracked (F-877C) |
When I try to put the 32 degree bend in the
Battery tray suport (F-877C on the RV-8)
It cracks.This is .125 3/4 X 3/4 .
Ref. DWG 31
How did others do these bends?
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman(at)allstream.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR |
IMHO, the single best "crash kit" item - assuming we are talking about
things that will help someone spot you from the air - would be a mirror.
Shiny surfaces are highly visible from the air and, if they flash at you,
are real attention getters. One of the aimable "rescue mirrors" so-called
because you look through a partially silvered area and direct the reflection
in a particular direction would be ideal.
A blank or otherwise compact disc is a reasonable (and very cheap)
substitute.
OK, a mirror will not help at night or in overcast conditions but that's
when an ELT comes in.
Jim Oke
RV-3, RV-6A
Wpg., MB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mickey Coggins" <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Finding polished airplanes in SAR
>
>
>>... You DO have an
>>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>
>
> Interesting post. What do you recommend for the kit?
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
>
>
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 QB Wings/Fuselage
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Lumpkin <tlump51(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Spaceship One Anecdotes |
A friend of a friend went to the AOPA conference in Long Beach, CA where Mike Melvill
was speaking. I thought you would find his report interesting.
Ted
I just had the extreme pleasure of speaking with Mike Melvill yesterday,
the
> pilot of SpaceShipOne's first two flights above the Karman line of 100 km.
> MSL, and with his wife. He gave a 45-minute presentation to the Aircraft
> Owners and Pilots Association conference in Long Beach on Thursday, and
got
> a several-minute standing ovation. I was able to speak with him for a
short
> while after his talk.
>
> Since he was speaking to pilots, he didn't have to translate for the
> "general public" or pull many punches. He spent almost half of his time
> going over the flight controls and the entire cockpit
> layout inside of SpaceShipOne, explaining how it is flown. I think this
is
> the first time this has been explained publicly in such detail, and it was
> amazing. There are actually four separate flight regimes, and each is
flown
> differently. Just after launch, it flies like a piper cub, using a
joystick
> and rudder pedals with mechanical linkages to the controls (no hydraulic
> assists). When it goes supersonic, the aerodynamic forces are too high to
> be able to move the stick, and the controls are subject to flutter. So
they
> use an electrically powered trim system, flown using the "top hat" switch
on
> the joystick and a couple of grips on the arm rest of the pilot's seat.
> (There are backup switches to the left of the instrument panel, which had
to
> be used on one flight.) This moves the entire horizontal stabilizers, not
> just the elevons on the trailing edges.
>
> Eventually, they get high enough and the air gets thin enough that they
can
> again use manual controls, although the response is totally different than
> lower down. But that goes away as they exit the atmosphere; the Reaction
> Control System nozzles are then used for maneuvering in space. Coming
back
> down, the pilot has to reverse the sequence. There is no automated
> switchover of control systems; the pilot has to remember to move from one
> system to the next at
> the right times.
>
> The rudder pedals are not linked. Each controls one of the two vertical
> stabilizer rudders separately. You can push both rudder pedals at the same
> time, and get a fairly effective speed brake, with both rudders canted
> outward. Push both fully forward and they engage the wheel brakes. But
> these are not very effective and are only really useful for steering input
> during rollout. The real brake is on the nose skid: a piece of maple
wood,
> with the grain aligned down the centerline of the airplane. He said it
was
> the most effective braking material they could find.
>
> Stephen, we talked about G forces on Tuesday, and I got some of it wrong.
He
> says that he gets hit with about 3Gs kicking him backwards as soon as he
> lights the rocket motor. He's supersonic within about 9 seconds later.
But
> he immediately starts to pull up into an almost vertical climb. So he also
> gets over 4.3Gs pushing him down into his seat just from that maneuver.
The
> combined force is "very stressful" and Mike says it's "important not to
> black out" at that
>
> point. He's going 1880 knots straight up within 70 seconds. On re-entry,
> the aircraft goes from being absolutely silent while in space to
generating
> a deafening roar as it hits the atmosphere
> again. He's going about Mach 3.2 by that time, and has to survive about
> 5.5Gs for over 30 seconds, and lesser G forces for longer than that, as it
> slows back down. It sounds really intense, both as he explains it and on
the
> radio.
>
>
>
> A couple of interesting side notes: SpaceShipOne has a standard "N"
> registration number; but it is licensed as an experimental "glider".
> Apparently there was a huge bureaucratic hassle trying to license it as a
> rocket powered spacecraft, which they just sidestepped by calling it a
> glider. I asked him if it had a yaw string; he laughed and said that
would
> have burned off. By the way, the registration number is N328KF, where
328K
> is the number of Feet in 100km.
> (White Knight is N318SL - Burt Rutan's 318th design.)
>
> Mike says that the flight director system (called a TINU) was developed
> completely in-house by a couple of 28-year-old programmers, and is
> absolutely fantastic to fly. That's why they don't need a yaw string.
But
> I had heard over the radio that Brian Binnie had re-booted the TINU just
> before the landing approach during the X2 flight, and it took quite a
while
> for it to come back up. So I asked Mike what that was about. He says that
> during re-entry, the TINU loses its GPS lock. So it keeps trying to go
back
> to catch up, re-interpolate and compensate for the missing data, and this
> keeps it a little behind in its actual position calculations. The pilot
has
> no straight-ahead vision at all, so they have a real issue landing: they
> can't see the runway! The way they do it is to fly directly down the
runway
> at 9000 feet; then they do a (military style) break and fly a full
> 360-degree pattern right to the landing. The TINU gives the pilot a "blue
> line" to follow and a target airspeed (which produces a given rate of
> descent). If the pilot follows the blue line, right to the break point
and
> through the two 180 degree turns, it will put him right onto the runway at
> whatever touchdown point he selects. But the TINU has to be absolutely
> current when this is going on. So at something above 15,000 feet they
> reboot the TINU and get it re-synched with the GPS satellites again before
> setting up for the landing!
>
> He also talked in detail about the rocket motor, and had photos of its
> insides after firing. The nozzle throat actually ablates as the motor
burns,
> enlarging the interior throat diameter as the burn progresses. He
described
> the problem they had on the June 21 flight: The rocket motor nozzle was
> skewed by about degree to one side. This generated a surprisingly high
> lateral torque trying to turn the aircraft. If it had been up or down
pitch
> rather than lateral, the controls could have handled it; but the lateral
> yawing forces were too great for Mike to compensate as the atmosphere
> thinned. The result was that he was pretty far off course. Mike says he
> reached apogee, rolled the spacecraft over, and was surprised to see the
> Palmdale VOR directly beneath him. That was 30 miles away from Mojave and
a
> long glide home. He says its amazing how fast a relatively small
deviation
> can produce large distances when you're going Mach 3!
>
> For one of the static burn tests, they had fire and safety crews all
> standing a mile away, ready to duck if anything went wrong. In the middle
> of the test, Mike and Burt Rutan walked up to the front of the motor
> assembly and felt the pressure vessel that contains the N2O. Mike knew he
> was going to have this same thing strapped onto his back soon, anyway, and
> he wanted to know how much it vibrated, how hot it got, and how loud it
was.
> It was deafening, literally. It turns out that, with the nozzles they use
at
> high altitudes, it's actually not that noisy inside the spacecraft. But
he
> still wears hearing protection.
>
> Scaled Composites seem to have fabricated quite a bit of the rocket motor
> themselves, including the N2O tank (which is also the structural core of
the
> spacecraft) and the nozzle casings. It would be interesting to hear from
> Michael's friend exactly what parts SpaceDev designed and what they
> manufactured.
>
> I took lots more notes. Very interesting stuff.
> W. Thomas Wall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "JT Helms" <jhelms(at)nationair.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
(((((((((Witnesses)))))))))
>
> and
>
> The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
> such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that
it
> would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
> hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
(((((((((Jurisdiction. I don't know what it is. I would think
regardless of the location/state of the accident, the state residency of the
insured could somehow have jurisdiction so the insurer could know its risk.
I am not a lawyer. It probably cannot be that simple. ))))))
>
> JT
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
>
> >
> > I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what
seems
> > to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> > risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling
our
> > this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest
ways
> > to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
> expect
> > to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
> that
> > insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
> log
> > book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> > acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause
an
> > annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
> annual.
> > I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more
casual
> > and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an
acceptable
> > manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
> was
> > void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about
flying
> > off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> > judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
> our
> > performance is all I am suggesting.
> >
> > Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
> >
> > The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
> > in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
> > in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
> > - Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
> > To: "RV-List" ;
> > Subject: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
> >
> >
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offer to raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all
the
> RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > > >
> > > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > > >
> > > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > > >
> > > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > > >
> > > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > > >
> > > > John "JT" Helms
> > > > Branch Manager
> > > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > > >
> > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > > Vanguard program?
> > > > >
> > > > > What happened out there?
> > > > >
> > > > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > > have about
> > > > > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > > few in a 185,
> > > > > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > > vary with say
> > > > > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Brent Travis
> > > > > >
> > > > > > N999BT
> > > > > >
> > > > > > RV-4
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > > > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > > > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > > > > required)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > > $3000
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > > > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > > > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > > > > >
> > > > > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > > > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > > above).
> > > > > >
> > > > > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > > a
> > > > > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > > like
> > > > > > a Citabria.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > > aware
> > > > > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > > even
> > > > > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > JT
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi JT,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > > builders is
> > > > > > it
> > > > > > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > > > > policies but
> > > > > > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > > us to
> > > > > > work
> > > > > > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > > think
> > > > > > represent
> > > > > > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > > > > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > > > > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > > > > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > > time
> > > > > > w/Van's
> > > > > > > checkout)
> > > > > > > Pilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > > > > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > > > > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > > w/endorsement
> > > > > > and Van's
> > > > > > > checkout.
> > > > > > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > > > > > Chandler AZ
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From:
> > > > > > > To:
> > > > > > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Get unlimited calls to
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > U.S./Canada
> > > > > > >
> > > >
oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > > :/clk.a
> > > > > >
> > > >
tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/&time=1102619828979569>
> > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > 28979569>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _____
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Terms of Service.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > > >
> > > > Online help on this group at:
> > > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > > >
> > > > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > >
> > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Man, if I had Phoenix as my underwriters, I'd start a "letter/phone"
> > campaign and consider a counter offerto raise the rates by 10 or more
> > percent as it seems it would still be considerably cheaper than the
> > alternatives.
> > >
> > > We do campaigns for stuff like Meigs, so I'd think the EAA should get
> > involved and certainly Van's should get MORE involved as well as all the
> RV
> > owners and try it.
> > >
> > > Lucky
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > The VanGuard Program was created by and belongs to NationAir. We
> > > are the ones who convinced Phoenix Aviation Managers to underwrite
> > > the program to provide competition (and drive the prices down for RV
> > > owners) 5 years ago.
> > >
> > > Is there still one company offering preferred rates for that
> > > program? No, unfortunately, Phoenix has elected to no longer
> > > underwrite the program. Is NationAir still committed to the
> > > VanGuard Program? Yes, by all means.
> > >
> > > Phoenix Aviation Managers was not making any money on insuring the
> > > RVs, and they aren't the most automated company out there. They
> > > didn't feel they could continue to service that many policies
> > > without them making money on that book of business.
> > >
> > > There are 2 other primary companies competing for RV owners right
> > > now. One is AIG, and the other is the EAA's program thru Global
> > > Aerospace. Both are available thru NationAir Insurance Agency and
> > > were still working very hard for those customers.
> > >
> > > For example, we were proud to be the first agent to invite AIG's
> > > Light Aircraft Division manager to visit Van just last week. It is
> > > very important that the see and understand the risks they are
> > > insuring. It was a very productive meeting. NationAir plans on
> > > continuing to be a leader in the industry for RV owners.
> > >
> > > John "JT" Helms
> > > Branch Manager
> > > NationAir Insurance Agency
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > >
> > > whatever happened to $1400 - $1600 insurance for TW RVs that I
> > > know my friends with flying tailwheel RVs were paying? Is that only
> > > available now through Van's Vanguard program? Is there still a
> > > Vanguard program?
> > >
> > > What happened out there?
> > >
> > > -------------- Original message --------------
> > >
> > >
> > > One more question, what about different amounts of TW time. I
> > > have about
> > > 500 hrs with 300 TW, about 20 in a champ, 5 in a decathlon, a
> > > few in a 185,
> > > the rest in a really good airplane (RV-4). How does the price
> > > vary with say
> > > 100, 200 300, etc. TW time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Brent Travis
> > >
> > > N999BT
> > >
> > > RV-4
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > >
> > > From: jhelms@i... [mailto:jhelms@i...]
> > > Se
> > > nt: Thursday, December 09, 2004 11:10 AM
> > > To: vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Wow. Gonna make me work today huh?
> > >
> > > 40k builders risk $400 to $500
> > > 85K " $1000 whether in hangar or not (unless liability
> > > required)
> > >
> > > 85K Tailwheel 200 hour pilot no appreciable TW time $2750 to
> > > $3000
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot " " $2250 ish
> > > 85K nosewheel 200 hour pilot $2000 ish
> > > 85K " 500 hr pilot $1600 - $1700
> > >
> > > 85K TW 1000 hrs fixed (sorry RW time doesn't count) no TW time
> > > $2250 (not appreciably different than the 500 hr no TW guy
> > > above).
> > >
> > >
> > > All of the above assume RV checkout and at least 25 hours TW in
> > > a
> > > tailwheel more substantial than a J3 or Cessna 140... something
> > > like
> > > a Citabria.
> > >
> > > Also, while talking so much insurance on the lists today, be
> > > aware
> > > that for EAA's program you HAVE to have an N# assigned/reserved
> > > even
> > > to bind a builders risk. AIG will accept serial number.
> > >
> > > Hope that helps and on your last comment, it's my pleasure.
> > >
> > > JT
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, "Darwin N. Barrie"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi JT,
> > >
> > > Since this list is always in flux with new members and
> > > builders is
> > >
> > > it
> > > possible to give some "ballpark" qoutes for not only builders
> > > policies but
> > > for flying policies. I think this would be good baseline for
> > > us to
> > > work
> > > with. I realize everything is variable. The examples below I
> > > think
> > > represent
> > > some commonality and "worst case" scenarios.
> > >
> > > Examples for a builders policy:
> > > $40K (airframe only)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in house)
> > > $85K (airframe, engine, avionics in hangar)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane tail dragger:
> > > Pilot- 200 hours no tail time (tail endorsement but no real
> > > time
> > > w/Van's
> > > checkout)
> > > P
> > > ilot- 500 hours no tail time (same as above)
> > >
> > > Flying policy assuming $85K plane nose gear:
> > > Pilot 200 hours with Van's transition
> > > Pilot 500 hours with Van's transition
> > >
> > > And while were at it since I'm not too far from flying:
> > > 1000 hours fixed wing, Private pilot no tail time
> > > w/endorsement
> > > and Van's
> > > checkout.
> > > 2000 hours helicopter time, Commercial.
> > >
> > > Thanks for your dedication to the industry.
> > >
> > > Darwin N. Barrie
> > > Chandler AZ
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From:
> > > To:
> > > Sent: Thursday, December 09, 2004 8:08 AM
> > > Subje
> > > ct: [VAF Mailing List] Re: Builders insurance.. FYI
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=0/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > >
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > Get unlimited calls to
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > U.S./Canada
> > >
> > > oups/S=1705340085:HM/EXP=1102706228/A=2343726/R=1/SIG=12i3uo101/*http
> > > :/clk.a
> > >
> > > tdmt.com/VON/go/yhxxxvon01900091von/direct/01/time=1102619828979569
> > >
> > >
> > > 28979569
> > >
> > >
> > > :HM/A=2343726/rand=264807919
> > >
> > >
> > > _____
> > > &g
> > > t;
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > >
> > > Terms of Service.
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > > Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free!
> > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/1yWplB/TM
> > >
> > > Online help on this group at:
> > > http://help.yahoo.com/help/groups/
> > >
> > >
> > > * To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/vansairforce/
> > >
> > > * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > > vansairforce-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
> > >
> > > is subject to:
> > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
Interesting comments. The problem with hull coverage only (while not
moving) is it cannot be gotten without liability rider as I understand it.
The liability coverage is where the cost gets high IMO. I would be
willing to self insure my plane for its cost/value to keep insurance cost
down while flying; But, what I have found is liability cost goes up fast
with a TW and also with less TW flying time. Lack of training and TW time
does cause higher losses -- I do not argue with that. If anyone is not
meeting the insurer required prerequisites for training in a TW, the
liability coverage is WORTHLESS but you still pay for it if you want it,or
are required to get hull non-moving insurance.
I agree, payment could be excluded for pilot caused errors and stupidity.
It would make us all better off -- even those who display dumb/higher-risk
habits. Let insurance cover things we cannot control if that is what is all
we want. For instance, damage while flying with VFR ticket in Non VFR
weather conditions nor equipped plane is another thing that should not be
covered. That is pilot error for even getting there. No one should receive
a cent for running out of gas.
Filing a claim after flying off with a toll bar attached requires real moxy
to expect payment in that situation. No wonder rates or going sky high.
Surely some insurance lawyer can figure out a way to write an exclusion into
policies so THAT risk is removed going forward. What other dumb things do
the insurance companies pay for that they shouldn't? What other exclusions
can we come up with??
Indiana Larry
>>>If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion?<<<
Because sometimes a wind gust, woodchuck hole, or vapor lock is not the
pilot's fault? Just a guess...
Stein: The purpose of hull insurance coverage is to compensate the owner in
the event of damage or loss of the AC whether caused by owner/pilot
negligence, mechanical defect, weather, hangar fire, hurricane or whatever.
If you exclude coverage of losses due to pilot error,the premium goes down,
but so does the value of the coverage. If you are confident you won't ever
commit pilot error or construction or maintenance error, why not limit your
hull coverage to when the AC is not in motion? That type of hull coverage
is available at a reduced premium, presumably because the risk of pilot
error, among other risks, has been excluded by the actuaries. Rion
I say if someone takes off with the towbar attached (see the wrecked RV6A in
the junkyard at Wentworth), or runs out of gas, or leaves the gust locks in,
etc.. they shouldn't be covered!
Just my 2 cents, but I really got upset recently when I saw a beautiful RV6A
less than a year old in the scrapyard because some idiot took off with the
towbar attached (It was an RV6A in VA -N999SB and I believe the accident was
sometime in September of this year). On top of that, the insurance company
had to total the airplane and pay for it.
And we wonder why they are getting out of the business...my insurance rates
keep going up mostly because of sheer stupidity.
Just my 2 cents.
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JT Helms
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
How do you prove in court whether someone did a preflight? or a runup?
and
The problem is not writing an endorsement to a policy which would require
such a thing. The problem is writing said endorsement in such a way that it
would allow for a denial of coverage by the insurance company which would
hold up in 48 seperate state courts.
JT
----- Original Message -----
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Phoenix Insurance lobbying campaign?
>
> I am part of the group that is having difficulty accepting the, what seems
> to be, high cost of TW insurance. I think we can all agree that the
> risks/losses of the insurance companies cannot be denied when singling our
> this group. Perhaps we as a group wanting protection need to suggest ways
> to reduce the risk/losses in our letter writing campaign. I, while I
expect
> to be flying 20 or more hours each month, would like to suggest perhaps
that
> insured be required to seek training with a qualified CFI and receive a
log
> book endorsement that we have flown in the last 30 days and found to be
> acceptable if we have not flown in the last 30 days. That might cause an
> annual flight review due to the down time expected from the plane's
annual.
> I might further suggest that most accidents are caused by the more casual
> and perhaps danger seeking flyer that does not do things in an acceptable
> manner. What if the insurance policy had clauses in them that coverage
was
> void if preflight inspections, or runups were not made. What about flying
> off of grass when it is soft from rain. I know this is some what
> judgmental. But all accidents affect everyone else. We need to improve
our
> performance is all I am suggesting.
>
> Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
Indiana Larry, RV7 TipUp "SunSeeker"
The sincerest satisfactions in life come in doing and not dodging duty;
in meeting and solving problems, in facing facts;
in flying a virgin plane never flown before.
- Richard L. Evans & Larry R Helming
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacklockamy" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net> |
"Tony Spicer" , ,
"Gus Schlegel" ,
"Eric and Jennifer Scheppers" , ,
"RV List" , "Matt Poff" ,
"Sylvia Oehninger" , ,
"Greg Healy" , ,
, "Roger Dillon" ,
"Rob Day" , "Dan Danska" ,
"Paul H. Christensen"
Another RV-7A was added to the list of "Flying" today!
N174TY was inspected this morning at CMA (Camarillo, CA) by FAA DAR Adam Valdez
(Bakersfield, CA). The inspection was very thorough, with only one minor squawk....
carb heat control cable nut behind panel was not tightened. Tom Yaberg
(owner/builder) did an OUTSTANDING job and the inspection with a single squawk
proved it. Tom honored me with being his Test Pilot while he continues to
work on obtaining his PPL.
Weather in Southern CA was perfect! 76 degrees F and light winds, CAVU. At 1515 local time, N174TY (flight of two) took off. Dan "Sharpie" Checkoway (www.rvproject.com) was the chase pilot with a videograher onboard. Thanks again Dan!!!
N174TY has a Superior 0-360 and Sensenich FP prop (72x85). Take-off was exhilarating!
Climbed to 4K FT, checked engine instruments, did a few turns and then it was a
nice climb to 6K FT MSL over the CMA airport. Dan came aboard and checked out
the aircraft. No problems. Reduced speed to slow flight and tried some turns.
Plane is rock solid! Visibility was approx. 50 NM!! What a ride......
Made a practice approach at pattern altitude for landing with 20 degrees of flap
and slow speed (85 KTS). Engine was purring.... Went around and set up for
the first landing.
First landing was uneventful and a 'greaser'. :-)
First flight was .9 hours. Tomorrow should be a repeat of the gorgeous WX here
in Camarillo, CA. Hope to put a few more hours on tomorrow. We got a 25 hr
fly-off period so we only have 24.1 hours to go.
As Paul Rosales says... "keep pounding those rivets!". What a great airplane!
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
-7A FWF
N174JL reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR |
My airplane is still unpainted and far from polished! But, my flying
buddies say that unless the sun is glinting off my airplane it's
practically invisible. Now I don't know if that's due to color or the
small size of the RV-4.
Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
>>
>>
>than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
>Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
>experience?
>
>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
>not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
>Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
>makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
>the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
>just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
>several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
>can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
>
>When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
>favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
>pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
>foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
>foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
>airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
>a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
>of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
>stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
>sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
>good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
>
>Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
>background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
>difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
>the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
>increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
>airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
>them?
>
>The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
>nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
>away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
>target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
>the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>
>IMHO
>
>Michael
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
Van Arts Consulting Services
3848 McHenry Ave
Suite #155-184
Modesto, CA 95356
209-986-4647
Ps 34:4,6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LarryLicking(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Aluminum polishing, recap. |
Dave Anders, a noted RV-4 builder from Visalia, California, whose plane has
set CAFE records and has been featured in Sport Aviation and other
publications, has painted his plane after the reflected sun's heat melted and distorted
his canopy. No lie, shiny is not always wise if the summer sun can do such
damage to a part which is so difficult to build.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spaceship One Anecdotes |
----- Original Message -----
From: Ted Lumpkin
Subject: RV-List: Spaceship One Anecdotes
By the way, the registration number is N328KF, where
328K
> is the number of Feet in 100km.
> (White Knight is N318SL - Burt Rutan's 318th design.)
>
Thanks for the article, as I found it very interesting. My reserved N-number for
my nearly complete RV6A is N328SL
which is a combo of the two above. But it's purely coincidence.
L.Adamson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Finding polished airplanes in SAR |
It is from the color, unpainted RVs are very difficult to see in the
sky. Throw in poor visibility conditions and
they just disappear.
Jerry
Scott VanArtsdalen wrote:
>
>My airplane is still unpainted and far from polished! But, my flying
>buddies say that unless the sun is glinting off my airplane it's
>practically invisible. Now I don't know if that's due to color or the
>small size of the RV-4.
>
>Kosta Lewis wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Is a polished Alclad aircraft any easier or harder to find in flight
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>than a >painted one? Or for that matter after an unfortunate incident.
>>Do any >search and rescue people out there care to share their
>>experience?
>>
>>ANY aircraft can be difficult to find during a Search and Rescue. I am
>>not sure the color is going to aid much unless it is fluorescent orange.
>>Many times you don't see the airplane as much as you see the "scar" it
>>makes as it comes back to terra firma. In fact, when you are looking for
>>the site, you are watching for the aircraft, the scar, or anything that
>>just doesn't look right. You can fly over a known site, sometimes
>>several times, and still not see the aircraft. It is amazing how things
>>can blend in and look like shadows, rocks, cows, etc.
>>
>>When we did SAR practice, sometimes we would borrow wrecks from our
>>favorite salvage yard and try to make a site look real. Big logistical
>>pain in the butt. One time we got hold of a really long roll of aluminum
>>foil and went out to about six sites and make "airplanes" out of the
>>foil. We tried to put them in configurations that resembled the size of
>>airplanes that had "landed" hard, and in areas that may have been sites
>>a person could have gotten in trouble. Mind you, this was in the plains
>>of Montana, not in the mountains. So: big bright shiny lengths of foil
>>stretched in big "T" shaped "airplanes" out in the open. Two of the six
>>sites were not found during the day-long practice session. With some
>>good pilots and observers. Yikes. How old are your ELT batteries?
>>
>>Air to air? Hard to say again. It is the contrast of aircraft to
>>background that makes them stand out and color may not make that much
>>difference. With polished aircraft, both in the air and on the ground,
>>the possibility of seeing a "flash" as the sun bounces off it is maybe
>>increased. Or not. How many times have we been flying with another
>>airplane, them telling us "on your 4 o'clock", and not being able find
>>them?
>>
>>The inside of my wingtips are painted fluorescent orange; not much in
>>nature is that color. I figured either the wing tips are going to break
>>away in a "hard landing" or I can cut them off and use them as a visible
>>target. And my ELT batteries are up to date. None of which may help, by
>>the way. But anything to help us that look is helpful. You DO have an
>>emergency "crash kit", don't you? Even a small one will help.
>>
>>IMHO
>>
>>Michael
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Superior XP-360 Forum |
Listers,
For those who have an interest in the Superior XP-360 engines, there is a
new forum at
_http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XP-360Forum/_
(http://groups.yahoo.com/group/XP-360Forum/)
We are a group who collectively own, plan to own, or are looking for
independent info on the Superior XP360 series of engines, both carbureted and
injected, for experimental aircraft use.
We want to share our experiences, photos, data, thoughts and questions about
these engines. This forum is open to all, is unmoderated presently, so
anyone can join, post, reply, etc.
Regards,
Jerry Cochran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: [GRT_EFIS] Re: Autopilot GPS source switch |
That's only part of the solution, as Sam points out, and why I asked the question
to the list in the first place because I couldn't see the switch solving the
other part of the problem. I want the autopilot to be driven by two different
sources but also wanted the switch to serve as a "T" for the Lawrence GPS seriel
output to drive the GRT all the time. But I had some coffee and realized
that if I tie the GRT's GPS seriel in line to the same pole that the Lawrence
GPS output signal is connected to then that pole acts as a always hot "T" to
allow the GPS signal to always find it's way to the GRT all the time. That can
be accomplished by putting both systems' wires into the same connector before
crimping (or solder contact before soldering).
Now it's a day later and when I look at this I don't even see the need for the
DP as Paul points out. I think this would work with a SPDT switch like Paul does.
The main ? now is that if I have the switch in the position where the Lawrence
is feeding both systems the GPS signal out of the same wire and power source,
by splitting it's output what am I going to do to the signal quality and ultimately
reliability? Probably none with these modern systems and short wire runs
and minimal conductor exposure in low RFI environments.
But anyone know for sure?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> Real easy Lucky - a simple DPDT mini toggle switch with the serial
> lines hooked up to teh "outside" contacts and the autopilot serial
> lines connected to the middle poles. (I actually only switched the
> single serial line and not the grounds, as I am using a common signal
> ground for all of the serial lines in the system, so I could have
> gotten by with a SPDT switch - but then again, I'm an aeronautical
> engineer by training, and not a EE...what do I know about electrons?
> LOL...)
>
> Paul Dye
>
>
> --- In GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
> > I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but
> I want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance
> GPS and the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this
> on someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I
> still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now.
> >
> > What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going
> to be wired up?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Lucky
>
>
>
>
>
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
>
>
>
> <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
>
> <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> GRT_EFIS-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
>
> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>
>
That's only part of the solution, as Sam points out, and why I asked the question
to the list in the first place because I couldn't see the switch solving the
other part of the problem. I want the autopilot to be driven by two different
sources but alsowanted the switch to serve as a "T" for the Lawrence GPS seriel
output to drive the GRT all the time.But I had some coffee and realized that
if I tie the GRT's GPS seriel in line to the same pole that the Lawrence GPS
output signal isconnectedto then that pole acts as a always hot"T" to allow
the GPS signal to always find it's way to the GRT all the time.That can be accomplished
by putting both systems'wires into the same connector before crimping
(or solder contact before soldering).
Now it's a day later and when I look at this I don't even see the need for the
DP as Paul points out. I think this would work with a SPDT switch like Paul does.
The main ? now is that if I have the switch in the position where the Lawrence
is feeding both systems the GPS signal out of the same wire and power source,
by splitting it's output what am I going to do to the signal quality and ultimately
reliability? Probably none with these modern systems and short wire runs
and minimal conductor exposure in lowRFI environments.
But anyone know for sure?
-------------- Original message --------------
Real easy Lucky - a simple DPDT mini toggle switch with the serial
lines hooked up to teh "outside" contacts and the autopilot serial
lines connected to the middle poles. (I actually only switched the
single serial line and not the grounds, as I am using a common signal
ground for all of the serial lines in the system, so I could have
gotten by with a SPDT switch - but then again, I'm an aeronautical
engineer by training, and not a EE...what do I know about electrons?
LOL...)
Paul Dye
--- In GRT_EFIS(at)yahoogroups.com, luckymacy(at)c... wrote:
I don't have my GPS yet (not sure if that actually would help) but
I want to buy a switch that will let me select between my Lowrance
GPS a
nd the GRT EFIS output to drive my Trio autopilot and I saw this
on someone's website. If I have the Lowrance driving the autopilot I
still want it to also feed the EFIS. Can't find it now.
What switch type am I looking to purchase and what's actually going
to be wired up?
Thanks,
Lucky
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Q7_YsB/neXJAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM
* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/GRT_EFIS/
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
GRT_EFIS-unsubs
cribe(at)yahoogroups.com
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "thomas a. sargent" <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | FAB filter bypass - IO-360 |
Those of you with an IO-360 with vertical induction are aware of the
filter bypass kit that Van's supplies. It seems a bit hokey, using a
magnet to hold a hinged flap closed against the induction vacuum. If
the FAB inlet gets plugged, the air presure drops enough to pull the
flap open, is the theory. I don't have a lot of confidence in this
scheme. The magnet can weaken (from being heated, for instance). I have
no control over it (although that could be an advantage in some cases.)
I've also seen Van's filter bypass kit for the horizontal induction
IO-360. That kit uses a control cable to allow the pilot to pull
(rotate) the bypass door open/closed. I like that better. It's more
positive. I'd like to do the same for my vertical induction system.
The door would have to go in the bottom center of the FAB - that same
place that Van's bypass kit places it - so it would make an opening in
the center of the cylindrical filter, that is, the filtered air side.
The question I am asking is, is there room between the FAB and the lower
cowl for what I plan? I'm not to that point yet in construction, but
I'm told by Gus Funnel that there isn't much space between the bottom of
the FAB and the cowl. He wasn't sure it would be possible.
The door design is really the same as the one Van's uses on the Horiz.
Induction bypass kit, I would just move it from the aft section of the
FAB to the bottom of the FAB. The door would not have a hinge, but
would rotate around a bolt that would be vertically oriented. In other
words, the door would be in a horizontal plane and would remain in that
plane as it was opened, or perhaps I should say, slid out of the way. I
think if there is 1/2" or so of space, I could make something that would
work.
Comments?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, firewall.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Aircraft Insurance: USAA |
Just an FYI for USAA insurance members (ie, qualified current & ex-military members).
I was on their web site this morning and saw they do provide Aviation service.
Their minute blurb is copied below. They probably don't do the underwriting
but it's at least worth looking into if you haven't already. If their
airplane insurance is anything like their car insurance it probably can't be beat
now that Phoenix is out. Since just about every military officer is a usaa
member, they surely have dealt with a LOT of pilots and pilot questions/demands.
I'll call Monday myself and let you know what I find out.
If anyone's already insured by them on the list, would you mind sharing what you
know?
Thanks,
Lucky
USA Toll-Free 1-800-343-1547
Monday - Friday, 7:30 a.m. - 6 p.m. CT
Aviation Insurance
The Sky's the Limit
From coverages for hull damage and liability to medical payments, the USAA General
Agency can provide competitive quotes, personalized attention, and a highly
trained staff of professionals. We understand your needs as a pilot. Contact
Us.
Before purchasing aviation insurance, it is important to look at some of the contract
coverages that are not always so obvious. Besides comparing hull and liability
coverage and premium, these are some questions to ask when you shop for
coverage:
Can other pilots fly my aircraft? If so, what are the requirements?
How much expense reimbursement will the policy allow for other pilots flying the
aircraft?
Does the policy provide coverage for the use of a non-owned aircraft?
Does this company provide legal representation if I'm sued?
What rating has A.M. Best assigned to this insurance company?
Is there premises liability coverage for the hangar or tie-down space?
Just an FYI for USAA insurance members (ie, qualified current ex-military members).
I was on their web site this morning and saw they do provideAviation service.
Their minute blurb is copied below. They probably don't do the underwriting
but it's at least worth looking into if you haven't already. If their airplane
insurance is anything like their car insurance it probably can't be beat
now that Phoenix is out. Since just about every military officer is a usaa member,
they surely have dealt with a LOT of pilots and pilot questions/demands.
I'll call Monday myself and let you know what I find out.
If anyone's already insured by them on the list, would you mind sharing what you
know?
Thanks,
Lucky
USA
Toll-Free
1-800-343-1547
Monday - Friday, 7:30 a.m. - 6 p.m. CT
December 08, 2004 - December 12, 2004
RV-Archive.digest.vol-qf