RV-Archive.digest.vol-qp
March 08, 2005 - March 14, 2005
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: video camera |
Dan Checkoway wrote:
>
> Sam,
>
> I'm all over that. I've been wanting to have a wider angle view since day
> one, but I hadn't thought I could add lenses to this camera -- it's pretty
> low-end. But I looked and there sure are threads! Will see what I can
> find.
>
> If anybody knows a cheap source for a decent wide angle lens that will fit a
> JVC GR-DVL805 camera, I'm all ears!
Here ya go, Dan; this is the lens I used:
http://tinyurl.com/ouj0
Mount threads are 37mm. You will need an adapter (check at a camera
store) if the camera threads are not 37mm. Or, you can probably just
tape the thing to the front of your lens.
Here is the wide-angle lens offered by JVC:
http://tinyurl.com/63orf
This lens are so inexpensive they are great for experimenting. You may
not want to use it all the time but it is a good item to have in your
equipment kit. By the way, my camera is a whole lot more "low-end" than
yours!
Looking forward to seeing the results!
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov> Major or Minor Modification |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Major or Minor Modification
Minor Modification
When I got my new to me RV 6A the existing operating limitations were very
restrictive so I requested and got new operating limitations. I was given
a generous Phase One flying area and a 5 hour re-certification for a major
change. I was told that my complete panel change was minor but that
putting a constant speed prop would be major and major change require a new
XXXX form. Given the fly off period is only 5 hours and the area is
generous, I am going to treat my panel upgrade as a major change primarily
to prevent a no pay insurance situation.
Matthew M. Jurotich
NASA/Goddard Space Flight Center
Swales contractor to the
JWST ISIM Systems Engineer
m/c : 443
e-mail mail to:
phone : 301-286-5919
fax : 301-286-7021
JWST URL: <http://ngst1.gsfc.nasa.gov
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Alodine Powder Supplier? |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
All,
I'm trying to find a distributor that will sell about a pound of
Alodine in it's powdered form. It goes by either Alodine 1200s or
Iridite 14-2. I don't see the point of paying the large amount of extra
dollars, not to mention hazmat handling charges, for water. Trying to
find a distributor is turning out to be much more difficult than I
expected. None seem to want to deal in small quantities and none of the
local paint supply houses carry it, or they have it in liquid and charge
more than AS and Wicks.
BTW, I'm in the DFW area.
Thanks,
Michael Sausen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
| Subject: | Whiskers on Main Spar Rivets?... |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
I am sure it is probably nothing, but have any of you noticed a "whisker" effect
in the gold anodizing on the main spar to wing ribs rivets? I
noticed them when looking at a certain angle in the sunlight. I figured it was
probably just the anodizing being compressed and is not a big
deal. Am I correct?
- Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Trotter <ptrotter(at)acm.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine Powder Supplier? |
Michael,
I also tried to find small quantities of powdered Alodine. The smallest I
could find was 10 pounds. I was going to buy that much and try to resell
small quantities myself but I found out that the powdered form is considered
an oxidizer from a hazmat perspective and the shipping charges are even
higher than the normal liquid form. I didn't want to deal with that so I
just went on with liquid. The powder makes a lot of sense since a pound of
powder make 16 gallons of Alodine.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Subject: RV-List: Alodine Powder Supplier?
>
> All,
>
> I'm trying to find a distributor that will sell about a pound of
> Alodine in it's powdered form. It goes by either Alodine 1200s or
> Iridite 14-2. I don't see the point of paying the large amount of extra
> dollars, not to mention hazmat handling charges, for water. Trying to
> find a distributor is turning out to be much more difficult than I
> expected. None seem to want to deal in small quantities and none of the
> local paint supply houses carry it, or they have it in liquid and charge
> more than AS and Wicks.
>
> BTW, I'm in the DFW area.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Sausen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Prop replacement, question for Das Fed |
No disrespect to the FAA inspector, but I would think more flight-testing would
be prudent. Logically and practically speaking more flight test is in order to
determine new: static RPM, takeoff distance, climb rates/speeds, top speed,
cruise speed/fuel burn, flight RPM, glide ratio and so on. Kind of important stuff
and should be done before taking passengers at least?
As far as major mod, it did not change the W&B but the prop is a structural component
and safety of flight item. Yes? You as the builder can put it back into
a Phase I, if you feel it is necessary for safety. On the other hand your local
G-man says not needed, than that is good enough as long as you (and insurance
if applicable) are OK with it.
Cheers George
>
>On the subject of major mods and operating limitations:
>
>I have the older operating limitations (requiring FSDO blessing for any
>"major change.") I am replacing my wood Sterba experimental prop with a
>wood core, fiberglass covered Catto experimental prop. Weight is about
>the same, and both are fixed pitch, experimental props. According to a
>local FAA inspector (who deals with a lot of homebuilts and whose
>opinion is widely respected around these parts) this does not constitute
>a "major change" and no new certificate is required, nor is any phase 1
>time.
>
>This strikes me as a bit odd. What do you think, Mike, or anybody else
>who knows?
>
>Jeff Point, RV-6, Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Couvillon" <wcouv(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Whiskers on Main Spar Rivets?... |
Matt,
I have not gotten to that point yet, however, I made a BIG mental note about that
happening to many other builders and it is, as you expected, just in the anodizing
material...not to worry.
Will #91056
www.wills-rv9a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Take a look at these and see what you think. A friend found these and
wants to use one on his -6. What do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4533025216&category=26442&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dsvs(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Whiskers on Main Spar Rivets?... (not processed: message |
from valid local sender)
I saw the same thing each time I drove a rib to spar rivet. I don't think it is
any big deal. Don
>
> I am sure it is probably nothing, but have any of you noticed a "whisker" effect
> in the gold anodizing on the main spar to wing ribs rivets? I
> noticed them when looking at a certain angle in the sunlight. I figured it was
> probably just the anodizing being compressed and is not a big
> deal. Am I correct?
>
> - Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Aircraft Spruce sells them for experimentals... I think this is the same as
my Harrison... I would buy and use one...
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroclassiccooler.php
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Oil Coolers on Ebay
Take a look at these and see what you think. A friend found these and
wants to use one on his -6. What do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4533025216&category=26442&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed |
I should clarify this. The inspector recommended (and I agree) that a
test period is a good idea. My question is more about the FAA
requirements. Obviously there is often a wide chasm between what is
safe and prudent, and what is required.
Jeff Point
>
>No disrespect to the FAA inspector, but I would think more flight-testing would
be prudent. Logically and practically speaking more flight test is in order
to determine new: static RPM, takeoff distance, climb rates/speeds, top speed,
cruise speed/fuel burn, flight RPM, glide ratio and so on. Kind of important
stuff and should be done before taking passengers at least?
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
>
>Take a look at these and see what you think. A friend found these and
>wants to use one on his -6. What do you think?
>
>http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4533025216&category=26442&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting
They certainly are nice looking.
Not long ago, folks on the list were talking about oil cooler
failures because of the possible high pressure pulses peculiar to the Mazda
rotary oil system. Because of these failures, (and the lack of failures on
stock coolers,) I would be cautious about using something other than the
stock Mazda oil cooler.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Bill VonDane wrote:
>
>Aircraft Spruce sells them for experimentals... I think this is the same as
>my Harrison... I would buy and use one...
>
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/aeroclassiccooler.php
>
>-Bill
>
>
I would get one also. It seems exactly like my Harrison.....
Phil
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael D Crowe" <rv8a(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Whiskers on Main Spar Rivets?... (not processed: message |
from valid local sender)
Matt,
I too saw the same thing. I took a picture of it and showed it to Vans at
sun-n-fun last year. They said do not worry about it is star facture of the
anodizing coating and is not a problem.
Mike Crowe
I am sure it is probably nothing, but have any of you noticed a "whisker"
effect in the gold anodizing on the main spar to wing ribs rivets? I
noticed them when looking at a certain angle in the sunlight. I figured it
was probably just the anodizing being compressed and is not a big
deal. Am I correct?
- Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
I purchased one of these last week. They are the exact same model that
Van's includes in the FWF kits. Aero Classic oil coolers, part # 8000075.
He's been selling them for awhile, so he has a stock of them.
Matthew Brandes,
Van's RV-9A (Finish Kit)
EAA Chapter 1329 President
EAA Chapter 868 Web Editor
www.n523rv.com <http://www.n523rv.com/>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Alodine Powder Supplier? |
Michael,
Our local "industrial plastics" outet (a source for paint epoxy and
composite materials) sells the Alodine crytals in small amounts pacckaged in
little tins. A couple of ounces of the crystals mixed with water did the job
for my 6A project.
My cost some years ago was about $30.00 Canadian dollars. I'm fairly sure
the by the pound price would be better.
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Subject: RV-List: Alodine Powder Supplier?
>
>
> All,
>
> I'm trying to find a distributor that will sell about a pound of
> Alodine in it's powdered form. It goes by either Alodine 1200s or
> Iridite 14-2. I don't see the point of paying the large amount of extra
> dollars, not to mention hazmat handling charges, for water. Trying to
> find a distributor is turning out to be much more difficult than I
> expected. None seem to want to deal in small quantities and none of the
> local paint supply houses carry it, or they have it in liquid and charge
> more than AS and Wicks.
>
> BTW, I'm in the DFW area.
>
> Thanks,
> Michael Sausen
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Thanks to all who responded. This pretty well answers it. Anybody else
looking for an oil cooler this looks like a great deal.
Jeff Point
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
> Have the tail kit finished and the wing kit hardly stsrted.New York area
If
> interested, E-mail me at _kdh347(at)aol.com_ (mail to:kdh347(at)aol.com) or
call
> 845-677-3193
> Thanks Ken
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-7 Tail and wing kit for sale |
>It kills me to do this RV-7 empennage and wing kit for sale
Have the tail kit finished and the wing kit hardly stsrted.New York area If
> interested, E-mail me at _kdh347(at)aol.com_ (mail to:kdh347(at)aol.com) or
call
> 845-677-3193
> Thanks Ken PS also A complete set of tools, including pneumatic
squisser.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Blue Mountain Install... |
I started my Blue Mountain Sport and Autopilot install last weekend... Have
the Magnetometer, AP Controller, and elevator Servo installed...
I have posted some info and pix to my web site...
http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie" <eamadio(at)cogeco.ca> |
This is my first post in several years. I am building an older RV-6 kit and
have a question regarding spinners.
Has anyone on the list used the spinner supplied in the kit with a McCauley
constant speed prop? If so are there any pit falls I should be aware of?
Thanks for your help.
Ernie Amadio
Rv-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dedgemon(at)knology.net" <dedgemon(at)knology.net> |
| Subject: | Navaid Servo wanted |
I'm looking for a Navaid servo. If you have one you'd like to sell please
email me offline.
Servo only, not the control head.
Thanks
--
David Edgemon
RV-9A N42DE
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution* |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
All,
This is my own fault for assuming but I wanted to pass it along anyway
to anyone considering getting a pneumatic squeeze. Be sure they have an
adjustable set holder. The item "12310 Rebuilt C Squeeze" The Yard
Store carries doesn't have one and when I called they just said that if
it does they will list it in the description. My only experience has
been with adjustable so I didn't even know that it could have a fixed
holder They didn't really seem to care when I mentioned that they
should say that it isn't adjustable on the website. They did offer a
refund if I sent it back at my expense.
My solution was to take the adjustable one out of my hand squeeze.
Just wanted everyone to be mindful when dealing with them that they need
to not assume anything. They didn't cheat me but they didn't exactly
seem to care that I wasn't happy.
Michael Sausen
RV-10 40352
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Jeff,
This fella has been selling these for awhile. I bought one and it *looks
good*. I plan to pressure test it and will post results at some point. I also
ha
ve a used Harrison the same size, and it weighs more, probably because of the
cast alum ends... HTH...
Jerry Cochran
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Oil Coolers on Ebay
Take a look at these and see what you think. A friend found these and
wants to use one on his -6. What do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4533025216&
category=26442&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Does he sell them one at a time, or will he sell additional units at the auction
price. I sent a question but never got an answer. If someone on the list is
the winner, I'll buy a second one from you for the auction price and whatever
'vigorish' you might want.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay
Jeff,
This fella has been selling these for awhile. I bought one and it *looks
good*. I plan to pressure test it and will post results at some point. I also
ha
ve a used Harrison the same size, and it weighs more, probably because of the
cast alum ends... HTH...
Jerry Cochran
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RV-List: Oil Coolers on Ebay
Take a look at these and see what you think. A friend found these and
wants to use one on his -6. What do you think?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4533025216&
category=26442&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
I wondered where all the coolers went that were replaced free.
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay
>
>
> Jeff,
>
> This fella has been selling these for awhile. I bought one and it *looks
> good*. I plan to pressure test it and will post results at some point. I
> also ha
> ve a used Harrison the same size, and it weighs more, probably because of
> the
> cast alum ends... HTH...
>
> Jerry Cochran
>
> From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
> Subject: RV-List: Oil Coolers on Ebay
>
>
> Take a look at these and see what you think. A friend found these and
> wants to use one on his -6. What do you think?
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4533025216&
> category=26442&sspagename=WDVW#ebayphotohosting
>
> Jeff Point
> RV-6
> Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: Major or Minor |
Modification for electronic ignitions?
He is correct, although I would recommend placing the aircraft into Phase 1
and doing some testing on performance differences. That you can do on your
own at any time. Just make a log entry placing the aircraft into Phase 1
for testing of new prop, do whatever testing you feel is prudent, and sign
it off placing the aircraft back into Phase 2.
Mike Robertson
>From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com.for.electronic.ignitions?
>Subject: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: Major or
>Minor Modification for electronic ignitions?
>Date: Tue, 08 Mar 2005 00:46:57 -0600
>
>
>On the subject of major mods and operating limitations:
>
>I have the older operating limitations (requiring FSDO blessing for any
>"major change.") I am replacing my wood Sterba experimental prop with a
>wood core, fiberglass covered Catto experimental prop. Weight is about
>the same, and both are fixed pitch, experimental props. According to a
>local FAA inspector (who deals with a lot of homebuilts and whose
>opinion is widely respected around these parts) this does not constitute
>a "major change" and no new certificate is required, nor is any phase 1
>time.
>
>This strikes me as a bit odd. What do you think, Mike, or anybody else
>who knows?
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6
>Milwaukee WI
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution* |
Neither Avery nor Cleaveland indicate that an adjustable set holder comes
with their squeezer and they both sell one separately, suggesting theirs
also come with fixed set holders. I don't see any difference with The
Yard. Maybe they could have been more understanding about your mistake,
but it appears to me that is was your mistake.
The Yard folks have always given me good service and on one occasion
adjusted their price to me to meet the competition's price. Also, their
shipping cost on small items is a better deal, as they charge only actual cost.
You may also note that their price was almost $200 cheaper than that
charged by Clear Air Tools
http://clearairtools.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CA&Category_Code=PRS
for their rebuilt squeezers, so you got a pretty good deal.
BTW, when you want additional yokes, Clear Air seems to have the best deals.
Richard Scott
RV-9A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Care to elaborate on that?
>I wondered where all the coolers went that were replaced free.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg Puckett" <rv8er(at)myawai.com> |
Ernie,
I've mounted a McCauley constant speed prop on my not yet flying RV-8
and chose not to use Van's spinner kit. The problem with the spinner in
the kit is that it's backplate is designed to mount to the rear of
Hartzell hub. As I'm sure you know, the McCauley 214 hub does not have
this boss for it to mount to. It's spinner backplate gets sandwiched
between the hub and the prop flange (in the Mooney application), or in
the Cessna application, uses "ears" that go under the prop nuts.
I'm sure there is a way to make it work. Louis Smith
http://members.aol.com/lousmith/page/rv.html did this on his -8 but
after talking to him and others I chose an easier method. I should say
easier to fabricate and not easier to pay for.
The Whirlwind 200RV propeller
http://www.whirlwindaviation.com/series200rv.php uses or used to use a
McCauley 214 hub. They provided me with the spinner only and all I had
to do is bolt it on. Then I had to rush to work for some OT to pay for
it ;-)
One other nice thing is that if you ever want to save a little weight up
front, you can send them your hub, and they will install their blades
onto your 214 hub. The Whirlwind spinner is similar to the Cessna
version, that is, it uses the "ears" under the prop nuts. If your hub
does not have these "ears" installed under the nuts, you will have to
order the Cessna mounting ears and go through the hassle of installing
them. This involves tapping the roll pin out of the castle nuts, then
removing the nut from the studs. I'm fairly certain the nuts are
installed with permanent locktite which makes it a bit of a pain to do.
Greg Puckett
Elizabeth, CO
RV-8 80081
You wrote:
This is my first post in several years. I am building an older RV-6 kit
and
have a question regarding spinners.
Has anyone on the list used the spinner supplied in the kit with a
McCauley
constant speed prop? If so are there any pit falls I should be aware of?
Thanks for your help.
Ernie Amadio
Rv-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution* |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
As I said, I don't feel that I was cheated and I'm not saying that they
did anything wrong. The caution is merely to new builders that might
not know the difference. My only experience with squeezers was that
they were adjustable so I had no idea. My new hand squeeze from Avery
was adjustable.
Sub $300 for a pneumatic squeeze is a good deal no matter how you look
at it, I just would have like to have known about the lack of adjustment
so I could have ordered one with it. That's why I posted, so other
people would know. BTW, their pneumatic cleco squeeze is great! But
stay away from the individual oilers for $5, they leak into the line
when not in use.
Michael
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Scott
Subject: RV-List: Re: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution*
Neither Avery nor Cleaveland indicate that an adjustable set holder
comes with their squeezer and they both sell one separately, suggesting
theirs also come with fixed set holders. I don't see any difference
with The Yard. Maybe they could have been more understanding about your
mistake, but it appears to me that is was your mistake.
The Yard folks have always given me good service and on one occasion
adjusted their price to me to meet the competition's price. Also, their
shipping cost on small items is a better deal, as they charge only
actual cost.
You may also note that their price was almost $200 cheaper than that
charged by Clear Air Tools
http://clearairtools.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=CA
&Category_Code=PRS
for their rebuilt squeezers, so you got a pretty good deal.
BTW, when you want additional yokes, Clear Air seems to have the best
deals.
Richard Scott
RV-9A Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
There was one brand of oil cooler that didn't work very well and the company
that made them exchanged them all free.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay
>
> Care to elaborate on that?
>
>>I wondered where all the coolers went that were replaced free.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution* |
----- Original Message -----
From: RV Builder (Michael Sausen)
Subject: RV-List: Yard Store rebuilt squeeze *caution*
[i] This is my own fault for assuming but I wanted to pass it along anyway
to anyone considering getting a pneumatic squeeze. Be sure they have an
adjustable set holder. [/i]
My pneumatic squeezer was non-adjustable; just used the washers which didn't bother
me. Bought it used, and it kept it's value for seven years.
Since this was used for a lot of repetitious riveting, as compared to my adjustable
Avery hand squeezer being used all over the place; it just didn't have to
be re-adjusted (washers) much.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay |
Cy,
You are referring to the early model Positech coolers. AeroClassics never
had this problem. The problematic oil coolers were copies of the current
Stewart Warner design. The AeroClassics are similar to the oil coolers sold
by Niagara & Harrison. Apples to Oranges.
Charlie Kuss
>
>There was one brand of oil cooler that didn't work very well and the company
>that made them exchanged them all free.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Oil Coolers on Ebay
>
>
> >
> > Care to elaborate on that?
> >
> >>I wondered where all the coolers went that were replaced free.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Isler" <jlisler(at)alltel.net> |
If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one would you
buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4 so
panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I would
have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice if the
auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a Dynon
D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal. What are
the pros and cons of these systems?
Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out of
options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You know
what I mean).
Jerry Isler
Donalsonville, GA
RV4 N455J (not flying yet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
I have been going thru archives to try to evaluate elecronic ignition. I have an
A&P friend who swears by LASAR, but I have found several posts re problems with
this system, but the posts are not very current. I find hardly any problems
posted re LSI, or E/P-mags. I imagine e-mags are so new that not a lot is known
about them yet. My research has me leaning toward the e/p-mag sys for lower
cost/simplicity. Lead times it seems are out there tho. Any LASAR defenders/happy
users? Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | The Mother of all giant scale B-52's |
RV related? Well....this RC had the wingspan of an RV-4.
http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/VIDEOS/Giant_B52/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Update... Blue Mountain Install... |
I mounted the aileron servo in the wing last night.....and added some more
photos and comments to my web site...
http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Odyssey Battery Installation Kit |
| From: | "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander(at)astenjohnson.com> |
Listers,
I am looking at purchasing an Odyssey 680 and noticed that Van's offers
an installation kit for this battery for around $50. Does anyone have
an idea what would be included in the kit that would make it cost $50?
I'm guessing that it probably has a couple of shims in it.
Don Alexander
RV-8 Electrical and Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
Hi Charley
I have a Laser on both mag, when I build my next RV it to will have Lasers
on it. It is a certified system and best I can tell is no problems and I
start in two blades. Sure makes the guys around jealous.
BobLynch 465hrs RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Jerry Isler wrote:
>
> If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one would you
> buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4 so
> panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I would
> have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice if the
> auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a Dynon
> D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal. What are
> the pros and cons of these systems?
> Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out of
> options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You know
> what I mean).
Yes, dozens and dozens and dozens.
Go here:
http://www.matronics.com/searching/search.html
Search, "wing leveler" or "autopilot" or any of the above brand names.
About all that can be said about these systems up to this point has been
said and is in the archives.
Not trying to cut off your question, just pointing you to the answers.
Sam Buchanan (RV-6, Navaid and EZ-Pilot.....not at the same time...)
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit |
not sure what you could possible need... You can cut down the existing
battery tray for the odyssey... You may need some different bolts
installing your battery cables...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander(at)astenjohnson.com>
Subject: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit
Listers,
I am looking at purchasing an Odyssey 680 and noticed that Van's offers
an installation kit for this battery for around $50. Does anyone have
an idea what would be included in the kit that would make it cost $50?
I'm guessing that it probably has a couple of shims in it.
Don Alexander
RV-8 Electrical and Panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net> |
TRUTRAK TRUTRAK TRUTRAK No further discussions necessary.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Osburn" <flyby41(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | links to Super 8? |
Hi all,
I'm too poor to afford one but I got three friends agonizing over the F1or
Harmon Rocket or RV-8 decision. I have heard that there is a 540 powered RV-8
option that uses Rocket style gear? Anybody got a links to 540 powered RV-8 sites?
I've only been able to find one. Thank you in advance, Vince in Mojave.
P.S. Hope the question ain't anathema to some of you. I don't
want to hear it.
Vince
flyby41(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Update... Blue Mountain Install... |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Bill,
Word of advise, if those wire tiedown's are just your run of the mill
Home Depot type sticky backs, they WILL let loose eventually.
Especially in our aircrafts extreme environments.
Michael Sausen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install...
I mounted the aileron servo in the wing last night.....and added some
more photos and comments to my web site...
http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
I would go with the Pictoral Pilot from TruTrak. It gives you the turn
and bank and also autopilot.
Michael Sausen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry Isler
Subject: RV-List: Auto Pilots
If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one would
you buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an
RV-4 so panel space is very limited. In order to install the control
head I would have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it
would be nice if the auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then
again, I have a Dynon D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not
that big of a deal. What are the pros and cons of these systems?
Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out
of options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You
know what I mean).
Jerry Isler
Donalsonville, GA
RV4 N455J (not flying yet)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ernie" <eamadio(at)cogeco.ca> |
Greg,
Perhaps I should have been clearer on the discription of my situation.My
prop is an older McCauley Mod#2D36C14-A from a 1964 Mooney with an O360 A1A.
The originalspinner and backing plates were aluminum and had cracked and
been repaired several times.
The rear backing plate mounted to the fly wheel/ring gear with bolts on
machined pads about an inch in from the ring gear.The prop hub does not
touch the backing plate at all.In fact the backing plate is completely cut
away except for the flange to bolt it to the fly wheel. The backing plate
looks like a bowl with the centre of the bottom cut out.
I have the Vans' spinner here, and it looks like it might work.My major
concern was whether or not there was enough clearance inside the spinner to
accomodate the McCauley hub since it appears to be rather tall and bulky and
I'd rather know before I cut into the spinner and backing plate.Obviously,
if there isn't enough room after the cutting the pieces will be scrap.
Thanks for the help.
Ernie Amadio
RV-6 #21488
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Update... Blue Mountain Install... |
Michael... Thanks for the tip...
They are not Home Depot type, and they are epoxies up there...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install...
Bill,
Word of advise, if those wire tiedown's are just your run of the mill
Home Depot type sticky backs, they WILL let loose eventually.
Especially in our aircrafts extreme environments.
Michael Sausen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill VonDane
Subject: RV-List: Update... Blue Mountain Install...
I mounted the aileron servo in the wing last night.....and added some
more photos and comments to my web site...
http://www.rv8a.com/panel/panel3/installation.htm
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
On 03/10 9:10, Charles Heathco wrote:
> I have been going thru archives to try to evaluate elecronic ignition. I have
an A&P friend who swears by LASAR, but I have found several posts re problems
with this system, but the posts are not very current. I find hardly any problems
posted re LSI, or E/P-mags. I imagine e-mags are so new that not a lot is
known about them yet. My research has me leaning toward the e/p-mag sys for lower
cost/simplicity. Lead times it seems are out there tho. Any LASAR defenders/happy
users? Charlie Heathco
I also went with the LASAR ignition, but I'm not flying yet (almost)
so I can't provide any real-world experience yet. Installation is
easy though.
I can say the Bob K. (aeroelectric.com) is not very fond of them.
There have been many posts on this issue in that forum wherein
Bob describes the reasons why he thinks there may be better
alternatives.
But, I am satisfied with my choice, so far.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
> I have been going thru archives to try to evaluate elecronic ignition. I
> have an A&P friend who swears by LASAR, but I have found several posts re
> problems with this system, but the posts are not very current. I find
> hardly any problems posted re LSI, or E/P-mags. I imagine e-mags are so
> new that not a lot is known about them yet. My research has me leaning
> toward the e/p-mag sys for lower cost/simplicity. Lead times it seems are
> out there tho. Any LASAR defenders/happy users? Charlie Heathco
Charlie,
I'm a very happy user. I had it installed on my RV-8 (www.rv-8.com) and also
spec'd it for my RV-3B I'm now building (www.rv-3.com). One thing, if you do
order it be sure and get it WITHOUT the CHT temp sensing circuit, this is a
known problem area. It is required on certified installations but of course
not on experimentals. I have a few comments on both of my web sites about
it.
Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Mike:
You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can only
do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know.
Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I assume(?)
an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all these
matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type certificate"
configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and
are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self
in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest)
thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is
one of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane.
Cheers George
>
> Mike,
>
> I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
> so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my curiosity.
>
>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
> have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
> builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what are
> the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate and
> who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a position
> to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, and
> sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
I had always believed this to be incorrect. The repairman certificate is
required for you to sign off on the annual condition inspection. I had always
thought that it was not necessary to for anything else. Therefore you could do
something such as install a prop and sign it off, though it could be subject to
question during the condition inspection. Might be time to hit the FAR's.
-- John
www.rivetbangers.com - Building more than just RV's
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
>
> Mike:
>
> You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can
only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know.
Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I
assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all
these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type
certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and
are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self
in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest)
thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is one
of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane.
>
> Cheers George
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
To Charlie,
I have only 25 hours on the engine/LASAR system but it is working as
expected. I do have the CHT sensor and not aware of any problems with it.
To Randy,
What kind of problems are you aware of?... or have experienced with the CHT
sensor feature?
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Spicer" <spike(at)spikesplace.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Check out this document from the FAA:
http://www.faa.gov/avr/afs/faa/8300/8300_vol2/2_025_00.pdf
and
AC650-23A: http://www.rivetbangers.com/documents/AC65-23A.pdf
The repairman certificate allows an individual to perform the annual condition
inspection only. I believe that any owner can alter the aircraft as they see
fit. I believe this would be based on the idea that the aircraft is not
certified.
Anyone have a better explanation?
-- John
www.rivetbangers.com - Building more than just RV's
www.spikesplace.org/cgi-php/serendipity - Builder's log
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
>
> Mike:
>
> You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can
only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know.
Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I
assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all
these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type
certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and
are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self
in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest)
thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is one
of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane.
>
> Cheers George
>
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
> > so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my curiosity.
> >
> >I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
> > have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
> > builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what
are
> > the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate and
> > who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a position
> > to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, and
> > sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Douglas Weiler <dcw(at)nomadwi.com> |
>
> If you were going to install a wing leveler auto-pilot, which one
> would you
> buy? The obvious choices are Navaid, Trutrak and Trio. I have an RV-4
> so
> panel space is very limited. In order to install the control head I
> would
> have to remove my turn coordinator so I was thinking it would be nice
> if the
> auto-pilot could also serve in this capacity. Then again, I have a
> Dynon
> D10A so maybe the turn coordinator loss is not that big of a deal.
> What are
> the pros and cons of these systems?
> Any testimonials? (There I was........1500', inverted, and running out
> of
> options. When all was but lost, I engaged the auto-pilot ........You
> know
> what I mean).
>
I have a RV-4 with a Digiflight II installed (alt hold, VS mode, and
GPSS steering). It is the most amazing autopilot I have used with side
of the B-757 I fly for work. It is amazingly damped in rough air,
never gets off altitude more than 10 feet and tracking s GPS course
within .05 of a NM. I now consider an absolute necessity for my RV-4.
XC flying is a no-brainer.. comfortable and fatigue free.
Save your pennies and you will consider it your best investment in your
airplane.
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 170 hour TT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by
an A&P or AI.
Dave
gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>Mike:
>
>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft can
only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as I know.
Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods, however I assume(?)
an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing. Again, as in all these
matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer. There is no "type certificate"
configuration for exp a/c, so many changes slip thru the cracks and
are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a second hand RV may find them self
in a regulatory mess if they want to make a major changes. The best (easiest)
thing would get the builder to sign the mod off if possible. However that is
one of the fantastic reasons for building your own plane.
>
>Cheers George
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Mike,
>>
>>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
>>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my curiosity.
>>
>>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
>>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
>>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what are
>>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate and
>>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a position
>>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing, and
>>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm
not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country
flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer me
back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the
error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that
one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type
barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal
big enough for the processor to read it.
Any thoughts?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A (Flying)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Inman" <ghinman(at)mts.net> |
| Subject: | POP rivet static port |
When installing Van's static
port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet
or just glue it in place?
It seems to me that if you set
the rivet there will be not much to
attach the tubing to.
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman(at)mts.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: POP rivet static port |
George,
You're right, I wish those rivets were longer. I sanded off the area on the
inside and set the rivets. Then used RTV (silicone) to glue and strain
relieve the tubing. That way the RTV can get hold of the fuselage sides too.
While you're at it put the "T" at the top of the bulkhead (centered) to get the
best average pressure between the two ports. All IMHO, of course.
Dan Hopper
Walton, IN
RV-7A (Flying)
In a message dated 3/10/05 2:42:47 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
ghinman(at)mts.net writes:
When installing Van's static
port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet
or just glue it in place?
It seems to me that if you set
the rivet there will be not much to
attach the tubing to.
GEORGE H. INMAN
ghinman(at)mts.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm
> not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country
> flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer
me
> back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the
> error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that
> one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type
> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal
> big enough for the processor to read it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (Flying)
Keep us informed on this.
Phil RV6 flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm
> not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country
> flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer
me
> back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the
> error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that
> one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type
> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal
> big enough for the processor to read it.
>
> Any thoughts?
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A (Flying)
Dan, the answer is "yes". Here is a link to an altitude hold unit that
used the trim tab:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm
Seems I heard the unit was out of production but since the page is still
active, I may be wrong about that. I think I also read that the unit
struggled with holding the speedy RV on altitude but worked better with
slower aircraft.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: POP rivet static port |
On 03/10 1:40, George Inman wrote:
>
> When installing Van's static
> port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet
> or just glue it in place?
> It seems to me that if you set
> the rivet there will be not much to
> attach the tubing to.
I "pulled" the pop rivet just enough to hold it firmly in place
but not all the way so that it "pops". Then push the center
pull pin from the outside inwards until it comes out. The
flexible tubing vans provides will go over the now spread
rearend of the rivet. After the tubing is in place I RTV'd
it as a security measure.
http://www.rv7-a.com/129_2938.jpg
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: POP rivet static port |
On 03/10 2:50, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
> You're right, I wish those rivets were longer. I sanded off the area on the
> inside and set the rivets. Then used RTV (silicone) to glue and strain
> relieve the tubing. That way the RTV can get hold of the fuselage sides too.
> While you're at it put the "T" at the top of the bulkhead (centered) to get
the
> best average pressure between the two ports. All IMHO, of course.
>
> Dan Hopper
> Walton, IN
> RV-7A (Flying)
>
>
> In a message dated 3/10/05 2:42:47 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
> ghinman(at)mts.net writes:
>
> When installing Van's static
> port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet
> or just glue it in place?
> It seems to me that if you set
> the rivet there will be not much to
> attach the tubing to.
I did it just like Dan. A few more pics.
see entry dated 4/11/04
http://www.rv7-a.com/fuselage_4.htm
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
I've looked at the archives and come away a little confused. I have the
installation kit from TruTrak that includes servos and brackets for roll and
pitch. The problem I have is with the constant control resistance of the
TruTrak servo.
The archives indicate the Navaid servo has a clutch; thereby having no
control resistance when disengaged. This is a major benefit in my book.
But the same series of posts indicate there are better (digital) controls
available.
Could someone post a simple matrix of options currently or soon-to-be
available options or combination options ??
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA HR2 -fuselage and systems-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Couldn't you slurp the altitude information from your altitude
encoder before you send it to the transponder?
> ... Pressure input would come from an automotive type
> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal
> big enough for the processor to read it.
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill VonDane <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: A/P and servos |
the Blue Mountain servos have magnetic clutches an no resistance when not
engaged...
-Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: RV-List: A/P and servos
I've looked at the archives and come away a little confused. I have the
installation kit from TruTrak that includes servos and brackets for roll and
pitch. The problem I have is with the constant control resistance of the
TruTrak servo.
The archives indicate the Navaid servo has a clutch; thereby having no
control resistance when disengaged. This is a major benefit in my book.
But the same series of posts indicate there are better (digital) controls
available.
Could someone post a simple matrix of options currently or soon-to-be
available options or combination options ??
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA HR2 -fuselage and systems-
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Peoples <jp_rv2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Electric or manual trim? |
0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)matronics.com
Just ordering the RV-7 empennage kit... what is the consensus on whether to go
for electic or manual trim?
jp
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
> To Randy,
> What kind of problems are you aware of?... or have experienced with the
> CHT
> sensor feature?
> Dale Ensing
First off, you need the correct dual pigtail CHT sensor, that is if you have
a 4-channel CHT gauge. There are J-types and K-types and I forget which the
LASAR requires, but it won't work correctly unless you have the correct
type. Then, for some reason the connections from the sensor pigtail to the
wires that go into the brain are hypersensitive. They can look perfectly
good, and even test good with an ohmeter, but the slightest bit of
resistance will cause the LASAR brain to fault, and when it faults the red
dash light comes on and it simply goes back into fixed timing mag mode. It's
not a safety issue because you still have two magnetos driving the system,
but it's highly annoying and you're not getting the benefit of the advanced
timing. Of course the red light is conspicuous also.
What the CHT circuit does is move the advance back in incrental amounts any
time the CHT is 425 degrees F or above. This was required for certification.
Now most of us have fancy engine monitors with their own alarms for high CHT
so if you simply eliminate the circuit you'll never have a problem. It
cannot be field deactivated.
My advice is to install your LASAR on a breaker switch near the master
switch so it can be turned off. The simply fact is that your engine will run
hotter with LASAR because it's buring the fuel/air charge more efficiently
in the combustion chamber, not in the exhaust system. Therefore you need to
be aware of it. On my RV-8 I learned to turn the system off for a long
climbout on a hot day, then switch it back on once leveled off. Now my RV-8
had smaller cooling inlets and a plenum so it didn't have a surplus of
cooling air to start with. I only had to turn it off 2-3 times in nearly 400
hours of flying. That sort of scenario is when on a cross country stop for
fuel, high density altitude, high OAT, gross weight, and on a long climb.
I'd takeoff normally then once my climb was established I'd turn the LASAR
off, climb to 10/12/14k, then turn it back on. Just watch the CHTs and use
your own judgement.
All told I really like the LASAR system, and Unison support has been great,
but I do think the P-mag/E-mag product has merit and may well be the system
of choice in the near future, but like all the rest of you I'd like to see
more field experience with the product and more experience with how the
company will support it.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
www.rv-8.com
www.rv-3.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: A/P and servos |
Larry James wrote:
>
> I've looked at the archives and come away a little confused. I have the
> installation kit from TruTrak that includes servos and brackets for roll and
> pitch. The problem I have is with the constant control resistance of the
> TruTrak servo.
>
> The archives indicate the Navaid servo has a clutch; thereby having no
> control resistance when disengaged. This is a major benefit in my book.
> But the same series of posts indicate there are better (digital) controls
> available.
>
> Could someone post a simple matrix of options currently or soon-to-be
> available options or combination options ??
>
> Larry E. James
> Bellevue, WA HR2 -fuselage and systems-
Larry, I'll take a stab at it.
Navaid servo has a solenoid driven clutch which completely disengages
when power is removed and has no drag. This servo, while analog and
several years old, continues to function well in the field. You can
drive the Navaid servo with the Navaid, EZ-Pilot, or the Navaid version
of the DigiTrak.
The TruTrak servo is a stepping servo motor that remains attached to the
control system at all times. When it is powered down, there is a very
small amount of drag that you can feel on the ground, but you won't
notice it in the air.
The EZ-Pilot and DigiTrak heads are both digital and use solid-state
sensors instead of the mechanical gyro in the Navaid. They also offer
functions, features and performance that is beyond the capability of the
Navaid.
When it comes to pitch control, you can go with a wing leveler and add
the excellent AlTrak or one of the upcoming units from Trio Avionics. Or
you can install a multi-axis system such as the TruTrak autopilots.
There is also the Blue Mtn system that is an add-on for their EFIS. I do
not know how the clutch is designed in the BMA servos.
Maybe this didn't muddy the water too much. :-)
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on
certified.
This is FLAT OUT WRONG.
Anyone can work on an experimental.
One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional
inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as
airworthy.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
> Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
> your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by
> an A&P or AI.
>
> Dave
>
> gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>Mike:
>>
>>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft
>>can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far
>>as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods,
>>however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing.
>>Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the
>>answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many
>>changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who
>>has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want
>>to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to
>>sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons
>>for building your own plane.
>>
>>Cheers George
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Mike,
>>>
>>>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
>>>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my
>>>curiosity.
>>>
>>>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
>>>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
>>>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However, what
>>>are
>>>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate
>>>and
>>>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a
>>>position
>>>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing,
>>>and
>>>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>---------------------------------
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
cgalley wrote:
>
> I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on
> certified.
> This is FLAT OUT WRONG.
>
> Anyone can work on an experimental.
>
> One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional
> inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as
> airworthy.
>
> Cy Galley
> EAA Safety Programs Editor
> Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
Cy, I think you could also correctly state that *anyone* can work on a
certificated aircraft. The kicker is getting an A&P/AI to make the
necessary logbook entries.
Sam Buchanan (overhauled two engines with A&P/AI's blessing)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit |
Received-SPF: none
I used the stock tray and made two able brackets that I bolted to the bottom
to take up the space, this way if I ever want to install a full size battery
all I have to do is remove the brackets and make an new hold down. I cut
the piece of channel that holds the battery down to fit and used 3/4" angle
for the spacers.
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
15+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander(at)astenjohnson.com>
Subject: RV-List: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit
>
>
> Listers,
> I am looking at purchasing an Odyssey 680 and noticed that Van's offers
> an installation kit for this battery for around $50. Does anyone have
> an idea what would be included in the kit that would make it cost $50?
> I'm guessing that it probably has a couple of shims in it.
> Don Alexander
> RV-8 Electrical and Panel
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Peoples <jp_rv2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Electric or Manual Trim ? |
0.20 FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS From": contains.an.underline.and.numbers/letters(at)matronics.com
Just ordering the RV-7 empennage kit... what is the consensus on whether to go
for electic or manual trim?
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim
"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need some
input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the
elevator.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
> Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold?
>> I'm
>> not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
>> country
>> flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to
>> steer me
>> back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to
>> the
>> error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked
>> with that
>> one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive
>> type
>> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
>> signal
>> big enough for the processor to read it.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Dan Hopper
>> RV-7A (Flying)
>
> Keep us informed on this.
> Phil RV6 flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to work.
Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know.
In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude
autopilot.
I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some
extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim
"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need some
input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the
elevator.
John
----- Original Message -----
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
> Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>> Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold?
>> I'm
>> not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
>> country
>> flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to
>> steer me
>> back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to
>> the
>> error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked
>> with that
>> one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive
>> type
>> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
>> signal
>> big enough for the processor to read it.
>>
>> Any thoughts?
>>
>> Dan Hopper
>> RV-7A (Flying)
>
> Keep us informed on this.
> Phil RV6 flying
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I built one of these units and worked with it for quite a while and the
bottom line was that the trim servo was just too slow - it worked, but
not very well, the servo just couldn't keep up with the changes. The
circuit and software however, are good and my current project is to mate
it to a real servo.
Will let the list know how it works.
Dave -6 So Cal
Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold? I'm
>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross country
>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to steer
me
>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to the
>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked with that
>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive type
>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error signal
>>big enough for the processor to read it.
>>
>>Any thoughts?
>>
>>Dan Hopper
>>RV-7A (Flying)
>>
>>
>
>
>Dan, the answer is "yes". Here is a link to an altitude hold unit that
>used the trim tab:
>
>http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm
>
>Seems I heard the unit was out of production but since the page is still
>active, I may be wrong about that. I think I also read that the unit
>struggled with holding the speedy RV on altitude but worked better with
>slower aircraft.
>
>Sam Buchanan
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the
sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good.
It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to
maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with
barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should work.
Dave -6 So Cal
Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to work.
>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know.
>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude
>autopilot.
>
>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some
>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet!
>
>Cheers,
>Stein.
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim
>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need some
>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the
>elevator.
>
>John
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold?
>>>I'm
>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
>>>country
>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to
>>>steer me
>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to
>>>the
>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked
>>>with that
>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive
>>>type
>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
>>>signal
>>>big enough for the processor to read it.
>>>
>>>Any thoughts?
>>>
>>>Dan Hopper
>>>RV-7A (Flying)
>>>
>>>
>>Keep us informed on this.
>>Phil RV6 flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: links to Super 8? |
I'd start with Mike Stewart! Also, email him with any/all of your
questions.....he'll help you out big time.
http://www.mstewart.net/
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm
http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/
Hi all,
I'm too poor to afford one but I got three friends agonizing over the
F1or Harmon Rocket or RV-8 decision. I have heard that there is a 540 powered
RV-8 option that uses Rocket style gear? Anybody got a links to 540 powered RV-8
sites? I've only been able to find one. Thank you in advance, Vince in Mojave.
P.S. Hope the question ain't anathema to some of you. I
don't want to hear it.
Vince
flyby41(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric or Manual Trim ? |
On 14:43:34 2005-03-10 Jim Peoples wrote:
> Just ordering the RV-7 empennage kit... what is the consensus on
> whether to go for electic or manual trim?
I don't think you'll easily find a consensus here on trim, primer,
nosewheel/tailwheel, or slider/tip-up. But here's my opinion:
1. The manual trim option is the simplest, and probably the lightest, option.
2. The stock electric trim kit puts the servo in the elevator, which means
you require a little bit of extra balance weight in your elevator
counterbalances. I don't know how much, maybe someone here who's done it
can tell us. This means you have both the extra weight of the servo, and
the extra balance weight, in your tail (which is a long way from the CG in
an airplane that is prone to being rear-CG sensitive).
3. Another option is to do as some others have done, which is a hybrid of
the two "normal" systems. Buy the manual trim system, and the trim servo.
Mount the servo on the shelf in front of the horizontal stabilizer, and
drive the trim tab with it using the manual trim hardware. This system
saves the extra balance weight in the elevator, and the weight of a
push-pull cable all the way to the cockpit (you swap it for a light-gauge
wire instead).
Hope this helps!
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <smileyburnett(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | Re: The Mother of all giant scale B-52's |
Rick,
Thanks for coming by. My baloon would certainly be deflated more if I built that
B52 and watched it go in.
Ron
>
> From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
> Date: 2005/03/10 Thu PM 02:43:33 GMT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: The Mother of all giant scale B-52's
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
cgalley wrote:
>
>I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on
>certified.
>This is FLAT OUT WRONG.
>
> Anyone can work on an experimental.
>
>One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional
>inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as
>airworthy.
>
>Cy Galley
>EAA Safety Programs Editor
>Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
>
Even the 2nd statement isn't quite right. Experimental Homebuilts aren't
considered 'Airworthy' by the FAA. If you read the boilerplate for
signing off the 'annual', it says that the a/c is found to be in a
condition that will allow 'safe operation'.
I'm pretty sure that this stuff is covered somewhere on the EAA website.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
I am currently playing with a design for a heading hold -wing leveler. I
have the electronic components mocked up in a electronic simulation (PSPICE)
at this point. I am still debating whether to go with the analog approach
or the digital using a PIC Microchip. The digital clearly offers more move
for growth and change but the complexity of the algorithms are a bit much.
The analog looks to be more straight forward - but with limited growth
capability.
I am looking to make a simply (inexpensive) system that will start out as
an manual electric aileron trim and progress from there. I believe that a
Cascading set of simple OpAmp PID controllers looks to be the best bet (and
least expensive) for smooth operation. This is basically two control
loops - the outside loop would be comparing a heading signal to your set
heading the difference would generally a roll angle requirement this would
feed to the inside loop where the current roll angle would be compared to
the command roll and if a difference exists the inner list would generate a
roll rate command which would end up driving the servo. A small difference
in heading would generate a small roll rate and a larger difference a faster
roll rate (with limits of course - probably 15 deg max). Obviously quite a
bit more complex than this brief description - but that's the general idea.
The Unit is intended for VFR ONLY and will probably use a 1/3 scale model
aircraft servo.
If anyone is interested in discussing approaches off-line give me a shout.
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
> I built one of these units and worked with it for quite a while and the
> bottom line was that the trim servo was just too slow - it worked, but
> not very well, the servo just couldn't keep up with the changes. The
> circuit and software however, are good and my current project is to mate
> it to a real servo.
> Will let the list know how it works.
>
> Dave -6 So Cal
>
> Sam Buchanan wrote:
>
> >
> >Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold?
I'm
> >>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
country
> >>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to
steer me
> >>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to
the
> >>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked
with that
> >>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive
type
> >>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
signal
> >>big enough for the processor to read it.
> >>
> >>Any thoughts?
> >>
> >>Dan Hopper
> >>RV-7A (Flying)
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >Dan, the answer is "yes". Here is a link to an altitude hold unit that
> >used the trim tab:
> >
> >http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/ccady/eztrim.htm
> >
> >Seems I heard the unit was out of production but since the page is still
> >active, I may be wrong about that. I think I also read that the unit
> >struggled with holding the speedy RV on altitude but worked better with
> >slower aircraft.
> >
> >Sam Buchanan
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
I'm told that if you have serial code output available such as the Dynon
D10A produces for instance, it will be in 10' resolution.
Is this True?
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
> But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the
> sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good.
> It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to
> maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with
> barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should
> work.
>
> Dave -6 So Cal
>
> Stein Bruch wrote:
>
>>
>>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to
>>work.
>>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know.
>>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude
>>autopilot.
>>
>>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some
>>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet!
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Stein.
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>>
>>
>>
>>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim
>>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need
>>some
>>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the
>>elevator.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold?
>>>>I'm
>>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
>>>>country
>>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to
>>>>steer me
>>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to
>>>>the
>>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked
>>>>with that
>>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive
>>>>type
>>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
>>>>signal
>>>>big enough for the processor to read it.
>>>>
>>>>Any thoughts?
>>>>
>>>>Dan Hopper
>>>>RV-7A (Flying)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>Keep us informed on this.
>>>Phil RV6 flying
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
> My advice is to install your LASAR on a breaker switch near
> the master
> switch so it can be turned off. The simply fact is that your
> engine will run
> hotter with LASAR because it's buring the fuel/air charge
> more efficiently
> in the combustion chamber, not in the exhaust system.
> Therefore you need to
> be aware of it. On my RV-8 I learned to turn the system off
> for a long
> climbout on a hot day, then switch it back on once leveled
> off. Now my RV-8
I have 584 hours on my Lasar system now over the last 3.5 years, and here
are some thoughts: Regarding what Randy has written above, the system does
not advance past the baseline 25 degrees for the first 15 minutes of
operation, allowing for a pretty good taxi and climbout for an RV. I don't
believe any of the other EI's do this, and I can't say how much difference
it really makes. One does need to be aware of this, as fine tuning mixture
settings for cruise should wait until this period is expired.
Reliability wise I have had two failures. At 342 hours, the left mag died.
It was detected by a higher than normal EGT noted during a 40 minute flight,
and the mag check on the return showed that the left mag was sick (not dead,
but not good either). Unison sent another mag free of charge next day to
me, excellent service. I left for the west coast the next day, and was
thinking about that new mag when over the Rocky Mountains.... At 569 hours,
during cruise flight, the engine hesitated (this tends to get one's
attention) for perhaps 1/4 second, then recovered. The fault light was on
indicating the system was in backup mode (mags running). Once over an
airport, I checked the L/R mags, and the left was completely dead (one tends
to move the switch back quite rapidly when the engine completely stops
firing). Once again, Unison replaced it with a brand new one free of
charge, although this took a couple weeks this time. I suspect if I had
been on the road, they would have overnighted one. I never did learn what
the failure was on the first mag, but the recent failure was caused by a
broken rotor.
So, overall, Unison really sticks behind their product, but two failures of
two different left mags is a little troubling. Ignition systems are not yet
trouble free - anyone's. One person here had to rebuild a lot of his cowl
and baffling when an encoder wheel came off inside his Electroair during
startup. Others have had problems with Lightspeed. It is impossible to say
with any accuracy what anyone's system's reliability is.
Given the performance afforded by EI, mainly fuel economy, I would not be
interested in running my plane on standard mags.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 584 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
Jim,
I just did a quick Google search and found this quote. " Mode S has an
altitude resolution of 25 ft, Mode C has an altitude resolution of 100
ft." I think that may be the standard, but that doesn't mean that the
newer encoders couldn't have higher resolution. With that in mind, if
you have a high resolution encoder, I don't see why it wouldn't be an
acceptable source for autopilot altitude information.
Dave
Jim Jewell wrote:
>
>I'm told that if you have serial code output available such as the Dynon
>D10A produces for instance, it will be in 10' resolution.
>Is this True?
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
>
>
>>
>>But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over the
>>sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty good.
>>It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to
>>maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with
>>barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should
>>work.
>>
>>Dave -6 So Cal
>>
>>Stein Bruch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven to
>>>work.
>>>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to know.
>>>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude
>>>autopilot.
>>>
>>>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to some
>>>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet!
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Stein.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
>>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric trim
>>>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You need
>>>some
>>>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the
>>>elevator.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
>>>To:
>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude hold?
>>>>>I'm
>>>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
>>>>>country
>>>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little blip to
>>>>>steer me
>>>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional to
>>>>>the
>>>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have worked
>>>>>with that
>>>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an automotive
>>>>>type
>>>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
>>>>>signal
>>>>>big enough for the processor to read it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>Dan Hopper
>>>>>RV-7A (Flying)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Keep us informed on this.
>>>>Phil RV6 flying
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: links to Super 8? |
VINCE- I know of one flying but not of a web sight-TOM
Tom Whelan
Whelan Farms Airport
President EAA Chapter 1097
wfact01(at)aol.com
249 Hard Hill Road North
PO Box 426
Bethlehem, CT 06751
Tel: 203-266-5300
Fax: 202-266-5140
EAA Technical/Flight Advisor
RV-8 IO- 540 LYC READY FOR SUN-100 40-PLUS HRS
S-51 Mustang Turbine (Under Construction)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nick Nafsinger" <nick(at)creteaviation.com> |
Grey Code outputs at 100' increments, Serial 10'.
As far as an autopilot that controls Altitude via the trim, Chelton is
already doing it. I know they have had some 'issues' but apparently
have worked them out.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Bristol
Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
Jim,
I just did a quick Google search and found this quote. " Mode S has an
altitude resolution of 25 ft, Mode C has an altitude resolution of 100
ft." I think that may be the standard, but that doesn't mean that the
newer encoders couldn't have higher resolution. With that in mind, if
you have a high resolution encoder, I don't see why it wouldn't be an
acceptable source for autopilot altitude information.
Dave
Jim Jewell wrote:
>
>I'm told that if you have serial code output available such as the
Dynon
>D10A produces for instance, it will be in 10' resolution.
>Is this True?
>
>Jim in Kelowna
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
>
>
>>
>>But, the mode C output only has 100' resolution so you'd be all over
the
>>sky chasing it. On the other hand, GPS altitude might work pretty
good.
>>It's not very accurate but you don't care since all you want is to
>>maintain your present altitude. GPS altitude doesn't change with
>>barometric pressure so you'd have to keep an eye on it, but it should
>>work.
>>
>>Dave -6 So Cal
>>
>>Stein Bruch wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Well that's not quite true....it has been done and it's been proven
to
>>>work.
>>>Simple Altitude encoded information is all the trim system needs to
know.
>>>In reality it's not much different than a servo running an altitude
>>>autopilot.
>>>
>>>I'm not saying it works well or is good, but it has and will work to
some
>>>extent. It's just a slimmed down "Altitude hold" on a diet!
>>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>Stein.
>>>
>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of John
>>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>It won't work...I had that dream some time ago...how would electric
trim
>>>"know" if you were descending or climbing a bit ? It wouldn't. You
need
>>>some
>>>input regarding pressure changes not just aerodynamic forces on the
>>>elevator.
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>>
>>>----- Original Message -----
>>>From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club"
>>>To:
>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
Club"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Has anyone ever tried to use the electric trim servo for altitude
hold?
>>>>>I'm
>>>>>not talking about rough air and turbulence, just normal VFR cross
>>>>>country
>>>>>flying. I was thinking of just giving the trim motor a little
blip to
>>>>>steer me
>>>>>back to the right altitude. The pulse width could be proportional
to
>>>>>the
>>>>>error. I would use a Motorola MC68HC11 processor since I have
worked
>>>>>with that
>>>>>one for about 20 years. Pressure input would come from an
automotive
>>>>>type
>>>>>barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the
error
>>>>>signal
>>>>>big enough for the processor to read it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Any thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>>>Dan Hopper
>>>>>RV-7A (Flying)
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>Keep us informed on this.
>>>>Phil RV6 flying
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for FWF photos. |
Hi all:
I'm looking for any and all tips and tricks for everything firewall forward
(wiring, plumbing, etc.). If you have a website with pictures of things
under the engine cowl could you please send me your web addresses off-list?
I'd like to look at as many as possible, it should save time and frustration
and give me some ideas. Thanks.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Into the home stretch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | White Letters for Panel |
OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for the
panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out quality labels
with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer
one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
You can trick an ink jet to print white.
Type the text.
Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
reverse the colors.
Print the immage on white paper.
The printer will print a black background and leave the
text blank.
thx,
lucky
OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for the
panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels with
white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer
one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
You can trick an ink jet to print white.
Type the text.
Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
reverse the colors.
Print the immage on white paper.
The printer will print a black background and leave the
text blank.
thx,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Dyaton experimental race, July 24th |
I was wondering if any of our group plans to run in this race, especially any of
the formation folks as they would have the requisite skills. (Mike, the super
8 gonna be ready by then?) I think it might be fun, but in my 150hp FP, it
would be prop wash city for me :-) charlie heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel(at)ictransnet.com> |
| Subject: | Bob Archer's Email/website |
Does any one have a website or email for Bob Archer?. A google search
does not find one.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
it is quick and easy.
John
RV8
lucky wrote:
>
>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out quality labels
with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer
one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
>
>BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>
>You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>
> Type the text.
> Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> reverse the colors.
> Print the immage on white paper.
> The printer will print a black background and leave the
> text blank.
>
>thx,
>lucky
>
>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels
with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer
one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
>
>BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>
>You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>
> Type the text.
> Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> reverse the colors.
> Print the immage on white paper.
> The printer will print a black background and leave the
> text blank.
>
>thx,
>lucky
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter whether
it's laser to cartridge style printer?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
> I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
> with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
> it is quick and easy.
>
> John
> RV8
>
> lucky wrote:
>
> >
> >OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
> the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
> make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out quality labels
> with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
> Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> >
> >BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
> >
> >You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> >
> > Type the text.
> > Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> > Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> > reverse the colors.
> > Print the immage on white paper.
> > The printer will print a black background and leave the
> > text blank.
> >
> >thx,
> >lucky
> >
> >OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
> the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
> make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels with
> white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer one
> I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> >
> >BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
> >
> >You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> >
> > Type the text.
> > Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> > Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> > reverse the colors.
> > Print the immage on white paper.
> > The printer will print a black background and leave the
> > text blank.
> >
> >thx,
> >lucky
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter whether it's
laser to cartridge style printer?
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: John Huft
I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
it is quick and easy.
John
RV8
lucky wrote:
-- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels
with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and
pick up.
BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
You can trick an ink jet to print white.
Type the text.
Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
reverse the colors.
Print the immage on white paper.
The printer will print a black background and leave the
text blank.
thx,
lucky
OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels with
white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer one
I just run
to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
You can trick an ink jet to print white.
Type the text.
Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
reverse the colors.
Print the immage on white paper.
The printer will print a black background and leave the
text blank.
thx,
lucky
===============================================================
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
I put about 200 hours on a LASAR system, so here are some more opinions...
Alex, how do you know about the 15 minutes with no advance? I never saw
any sign of this with mine, it always started overheating right away. I
think you just saw that it doesn't advance the timing much at low
altitude and full throttle. Since I am based at 7650 msl, and only get
about 22.5" map on takeoff, my LASAR would think I was at cruise,
advance the timing, and overheat on initial climbout. I did what Randy
says, used a breaker switch so I could shut it off. I also had to shut
it off on any hot summer day in cruise, trying to keep CHTs below 400.
My new Lightspeed system does not suffer from any of this, and CHTs are
about 30 dF cooler than before in any given condition.
I also suffered a left mag failure at 5 hours. It was replaced promptly
by Unison. Last year, my hangar neighbor made his first engine run with
his LASAR system, and the "brain box" was dead. It took 3 weeks to get
straighted out. Unison wants everyone to go through their dealer for
service now. Harry Fenton was the greatest but he has left Unison.
The problem I have with the LASAR system is that it is nothing more than
a standard mag with variable timing. The spark is no hotter. The
reliability is worse, since it has all the weaknesses of the mag, plus
the electronic failure modes.
Now I have a dual Lightspeed ignition with the crank pickup...no moving
parts. Automotive spark plugs ($1.35 each). Much hotter spark,
especially at idle. Easier hot starts (fuel injection). I only have
about 40 hours on this system, so only time will tell of course as far
as overall reliability.
John Huft
more opinions at http://www.lazy8.net/EI.htm
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>My advice is to install your LASAR on a breaker switch near
>>the master
>>switch so it can be turned off. The simply fact is that your
>>engine will run
>>hotter with LASAR because it's buring the fuel/air charge
>>more efficiently
>>in the combustion chamber, not in the exhaust system.
>>Therefore you need to
>>be aware of it. On my RV-8 I learned to turn the system off
>>for a long
>>climbout on a hot day, then switch it back on once leveled
>>off. Now my RV-8
>>
>>
>
>I have 584 hours on my Lasar system now over the last 3.5 years, and here
>are some thoughts: Regarding what Randy has written above, the system does
>not advance past the baseline 25 degrees for the first 15 minutes of
>operation, allowing for a pretty good taxi and climbout for an RV. I don't
>believe any of the other EI's do this, and I can't say how much difference
>it really makes. One does need to be aware of this, as fine tuning mixture
>settings for cruise should wait until this period is expired.
>
>Reliability wise I have had two failures. At 342 hours, the left mag died.
>It was detected by a higher than normal EGT noted during a 40 minute flight,
>and the mag check on the return showed that the left mag was sick (not dead,
>but not good either). Unison sent another mag free of charge next day to
>me, excellent service. I left for the west coast the next day, and was
>thinking about that new mag when over the Rocky Mountains.... At 569 hours,
>during cruise flight, the engine hesitated (this tends to get one's
>attention) for perhaps 1/4 second, then recovered. The fault light was on
>indicating the system was in backup mode (mags running). Once over an
>airport, I checked the L/R mags, and the left was completely dead (one tends
>to move the switch back quite rapidly when the engine completely stops
>firing). Once again, Unison replaced it with a brand new one free of
>charge, although this took a couple weeks this time. I suspect if I had
>been on the road, they would have overnighted one. I never did learn what
>the failure was on the first mag, but the recent failure was caused by a
>broken rotor.
>
>So, overall, Unison really sticks behind their product, but two failures of
>two different left mags is a little troubling. Ignition systems are not yet
>trouble free - anyone's. One person here had to rebuild a lot of his cowl
>and baffling when an encoder wheel came off inside his Electroair during
>startup. Others have had problems with Lightspeed. It is impossible to say
>with any accuracy what anyone's system's reliability is.
>
>Given the performance afforded by EI, mainly fuel economy, I would not be
>interested in running my plane on standard mags.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A 584 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer's Email/website |
bobsantennas(at)earthlink.net
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel(at)ictransnet.com>
Subject: RV-List: Bob Archer's Email/website
>
>
> Does any one have a website or email for Bob Archer?. A google search
> does not find one.
>
> Roger
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
Brother's P-Touch . . . has a white on clear tape . . . I have one but
haven't used it yet.
>
> Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter whether
it's laser to cartridge style printer?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> >
> > I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
> > with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
> > it is quick and easy.
> >
> > John
> > RV8
> >
> > lucky wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable
for
> > the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on
what
> > make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out quality labels
> > with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
> > Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> > >
> > >BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
> > >
> > >You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> > >
> > > Type the text.
> > > Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> > > Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> > > reverse the colors.
> > > Print the immage on white paper.
> > > The printer will print a black background and leave the
> > > text blank.
> > >
> > >thx,
> > >lucky
> > >
> > >OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable
for
> > the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on
what
> > make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels
with
> > white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer
one
> > I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> > >
> > >BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
> > >
> > >You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> > >
> > > Type the text.
> > > Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> > > Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> > > reverse the colors.
> > > Print the immage on white paper.
> > > The printer will print a black background and leave the
> > > text blank.
> > >
> > >thx,
> > >lucky
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter whether
it's laser to cartridge style printer?
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: John Huft
>
> I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
> with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
> it is quick and easy.
>
> John
> RV8
>
> lucky wrote:
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
>
> OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
> the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
> make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels
> with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
> Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and
> pick up.
>
> BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>
> You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>
> Type the text.
> Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> reverse the colors.
> Print the immage on white paper.
> The printer will print a black background and leave the
> text blank.
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
> the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
> make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels with
> white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer one
> I just run
> to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
>
> BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>
> You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>
> Type the text.
> Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> reverse the colors.
> Print the immage on white paper.
> The printer will print a black background and leave the
> text blank.
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> ==============================================================
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
You just buy a tape cartridge that fits the label maker. They have
different styles, white letters on black, black on clear, etc. It is all
automatic after that.
John
lucky wrote:
>
>Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter whether
it's laser to cartridge style printer?
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
>
>>
>>I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
>>with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
>>it is quick and easy.
>>
>>John
>>RV8
>>
>>lucky wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
>>>
>>>
>>the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
>>make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out quality labels
>>with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
>>Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
>>
>>
>>>BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>>>
>>>You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>>>
>>>Type the text.
>>>Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
>>>Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
>>>reverse the colors.
>>>Print the immage on white paper.
>>>The printer will print a black background and leave the
>>>text blank.
>>>
>>>thx,
>>>lucky
>>>
>>>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
>>>
>>>
>>the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
>>make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels with
>>white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer one
>>I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
>>
>>
>>>BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>>>
>>>You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>>>
>>>Type the text.
>>>Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
>>>Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
>>>reverse the colors.
>>>Print the immage on white paper.
>>>The printer will print a black background and leave the
>>>text blank.
>>>
>>>thx,
>>>lucky
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter whether
it's laser to cartridge style printer?
>
>-------------- Original message --------------
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: John Huft
>
> I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
> with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
> it is quick and easy.
>
> John
> RV8
>
> lucky wrote:
>
> -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
>
> OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
> the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
> make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels
> with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
> Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and
> pick up.
>
> BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>
> You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>
> Type the text.
> Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> reverse the colors.
> Print the immage on white paper.
> The printer will print a black background and leave the
> text blank.
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable for
> the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question on what
> make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality labels with
> white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time? Prefer one
> I just run
> to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
>
> BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it work?
>
> You can trick an ink jet to print white.
>
> Type the text.
> Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> reverse the colors.
> Print the immage on white paper.
> The printer will print a black background and leave the
> text blank.
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
>
> ===============================================================
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
Some of the label makers offer the ability to use different widths of tape,
easily up to one inch wide. One of the advantages of this wide tape is that
some units can print multiple lines on the tape.
Some offer the ability to specify a "box" around the print which looks more
professional or finished, and multiple fonts so you can choose one that is
easy for you to read.
Look at the features and chose the best machine, not the cheapest... and
like any of these products, the manufacturer is selling the machine to you
at below the cost of producing it, and then stabbing you for the supplies.
The replacement cartridges can add up to a significant amount of money. For
this project that's probably not a factor, but make sure that you can easily
purchase the different styles or colors of cartridges in your area.
Good luck,
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: White Letters for Panel
>
> You just buy a tape cartridge that fits the label maker. They have
> different styles, white letters on black, black on clear, etc. It is all
> automatic after that.
>
> John
>
> lucky wrote:
>
> >
> >Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter
whether it's laser to cartridge style printer?
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
> >>with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
> >>it is quick and easy.
> >>
> >>John
> >>RV8
> >>
> >>lucky wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker
suitable for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question
on what
> >>make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out quality
labels
> >>with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over
time?
> >>Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> >>
> >>
> >>>BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it
work?
> >>>
> >>>You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> >>>
> >>>Type the text.
> >>>Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> >>>Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> >>>reverse the colors.
> >>>Print the immage on white paper.
> >>>The printer will print a black background and leave the
> >>>text blank.
> >>>
> >>>thx,
> >>>lucky
> >>>
> >>>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker
suitable for
> >>>
> >>>
> >>the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question
on what
> >>make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality
labels with
> >>white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
Prefer one
> >>I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> >>
> >>
> >>>BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it
work?
> >>>
> >>>You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> >>>
> >>>Type the text.
> >>>Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> >>>Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> >>>reverse the colors.
> >>>Print the immage on white paper.
> >>>The printer will print a black background and leave the
> >>>text blank.
> >>>
> >>>thx,
> >>>lucky
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >Any particular style/brand of tape? Never used before. Does it matter
whether it's laser to cartridge style printer?
> >
> >-------------- Original message --------------
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: John Huft
> >
> > I have a $50 Brother that I got at Office Depot. I use the black tape
> > with white letters. None of them have fallen off in almost 3 years, and
> > it is quick and easy.
> >
> > John
> > RV8
> >
> > lucky wrote:
> >
> > -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
> >
> > OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker
suitable for
> > the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question
on what
> > make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality
labels
> > with white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over
time?
> > Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and
> > pick up.
> >
> > BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it
work?
> >
> > You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> >
> > Type the text.
> > Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> > Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> > reverse the colors.
> > Print the immage on white paper.
> > The printer will print a black background and leave the
> > text blank.
> >
> > thx,
> > lucky
> >
> > OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker
suitable for
> > the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question
on what
> > make/model of label maker label paper it takes to print out quality
labels with
> > white letters that will actually stick to the panel paint over time?
Prefer one
> > I just run
> > to to Staples or Office Max and pick up.
> >
> > BTW, has anyone tried this trick I saved from prior email and does it
work?
> >
> > You can trick an ink jet to print white.
> >
> > Type the text.
> > Convert the text to a 1 Bit (black and White) immage.
> > Use an immage processing package (Photoshop, or many others) to
> > reverse the colors.
> > Print the immage on white paper.
> > The printer will print a black background and leave the
> > text blank.
> >
> > thx,
> > lucky
> >
> >
> > ==============================================================
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
Mickey and Stein,
That's a good suggestion, especially if one were to go inside the encoder
and tap off the data before it goes to the EPROM that encodes it into the grey
code. I have traced out the circuit of both the Ameri-King and the ACK
encoders, and they are practically identical. In fact, the pinouts of the 15
pin
connecters are the same. There must be a story there. I don't have a Dynon,
etc., so have to use the old technology stuff. Greater resolution can be
had by buffering the raw digital data and using it. Only the LS 8 bits would
be needed, probably, since we just want to HOLD altitude. It would be a good
idea to use a separate encoder, so that the one being used for Mode-C could
remain legal.
Thanks, Stein, for the link to EZ-Trim. It says on the web site that he
doesn't have time to build them and is supplying boards and software for whoever
wants to build it. I will look over his algorithm, if possible, from the
download. I am just looking for a microprocessor project, not necessarily the
ultimate in altitude hold autopilot. Since I am familiar with Motorola
68HC11 and have lots of them, would not want to go with the PIC, at this time
anyway. When I get tired of playing around I'll take your advice and just buy
one.
Thanks, to everyone else who replied. Sorry to change the subject like
that. I should have started a new thread.
Regards,
Dan Hopper
Walton IN
RV-7A (Flying)
In a message dated 3/10/05 4:35:32 P.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch writes:
Couldn't you slurp the altitude information from your altitude
encoder before you send it to the transponder?
> ... Pressure input would come from an automotive type
> barometric pressure sensor with enough amplification to get the error
signal
> big enough for the processor to read it.
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit |
The Odyssey battery install kit from Van's includes a nice spot-welded steel battery
enclosure (which you drill lightening holes in), a .125 alum bar you fab
into a hold-down bracket, some powder coated angle steel mounting brackets which
are predrilled for nutplates, some aluminum tubing for spacers on the hold-down
bar and some nutplates. It really is a very secure assy which goes together
and mounts quickly. I recommend it. Not that you couldn't make your own,
but for what you get it's a nice package. For some pictures you can check out
mine at: brownsrv7a.net/batteryboxmounted.htm
or check out Dan's site at: rvproject.com/20030228.html
Bob Brown
RV7A - wiring/canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Hi,
I'm very "glass challenged", which is why I'm building
an aluminum airplane.
Anyone have any special tricks for doing the wheel pants?
I'm kind of surprised that they really don't mate up very
well at all. I have no idea what the manufacturing
process for these items is, but it seems strange that
two halves would not share a common cut. Any tips and
tricks would be most appreciated!
Thanks,
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
I use a Brother PT-1950. Using 3/4" black tape, white letters and up to 4 lines
of framed print, it makes outstanding placards that I have used to identify
components all over the airframe, including firewall forward. These electronic
labelers enable you to adjust the size, font and other tools commonly found in
your computer Word program. I'm told you can even download and print images
via a supplied USB cable. I used smaller width tape to identify dozens upon
dozens of electrical wires. Brother claims the tapes will hold up to harsh industrial
conditions......we shall see. FYI, the replacement cassette tapes can
be expensive. Other than the generic white tape with black print, I find it
difficult to buy many of available widths and colors locally. Brother's on-line
store wanted $30 for the aforementioned 3/4" black tape. I recently bought
a copy at Amazon.com for about $16.00. It pays to shop around.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dyaton experimental race, July 24th |
I will be there. No formation skills required. It is lots of fun, it
doesn't matter where you finish (well, maybe a little).
John Huft
Race 13 "Nuisance"
Charles Heathco wrote:
>
>I was wondering if any of our group plans to run in this race, especially any
of the formation folks as they would have the requisite skills. (Mike, the super
8 gonna be ready by then?) I think it might be fun, but in my 150hp FP, it
would be prop wash city for me :-) charlie heathco
>
>
>.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
I don't know who you are but you are mis-informed. Anybody may do the
maintenance, major, minor, or otherwise, on an experimental amateur-built
aircraft. The only time a "certificated" person must become involved is for
the yearly condition inspection. That's its. There is nothing else.
FAR 43 says right at the start that this section does not apply to
Experimental aircraft. Therefore the only thing governing the maintenance
of an amateur-built aircraft is the aircraft's operating limitations.
Mike Robertson
>From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: Date:
>
>
>Mike:
>
>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental aircraft
>can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far as
>I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods,
>however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's blessing.
>Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the answer.
>There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so many changes
>slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who has a
>second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they want to make
>a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder to sign the
>mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic reasons for
>building your own plane.
>
>Cheers George
>
>
> >
> > Mike,
> >
> > I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
> > so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my
>curiosity.
> >
> >I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
> > have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
> > builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However,
>what are
> > the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate
>and
> > who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a
>position
> > to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing,
>and
> > sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit |
On 03/11 7:56, Karen and Robert Brown wrote:
>
> The Odyssey battery install kit from Van's includes a nice spot-welded steel
battery enclosure (which you drill lightening holes in), a .125 alum bar you
fab into a hold-down bracket, some powder coated angle steel mounting brackets
which are predrilled for nutplates, some aluminum tubing for spacers on the hold-down
bar and some nutplates. It really is a very secure assy which goes together
and mounts quickly. I recommend it. Not that you couldn't make your
own, but for what you get it's a nice package. For some pictures you can check
out mine at: brownsrv7a.net/batteryboxmounted.htm
> or check out Dan's site at: rvproject.com/20030228.html
I made a modification to the Battery Box design from Vans. Vans
design would have you slip the battery up and out of the box in
order to replace it. This is a heavy battery with nothing
to grab onto AND if you have anything mounted above the battery
box, you may not have the clearance to remove the battery,
ask me how I know...
I made a quick modification which is to make the front panel
of the box removable so the battery just pops out the front.
I used hinges on each side to retain the front of the box.
It works very well and is simple to do.
http://www.rv7-a.com/firewall_finish.htm#battery box mods
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Cy,
If I may. The yearly condiction inspection is to determine if the aircraft
is safe to operate. I know it is a play on terms but from the FAA point of
view we say that the aircraft is never airworthy because it has not been
evaluated and issued an type certificate, only that it is "safe to operate".
Other than that you are entirely correct.
Mike R.
>From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:07:38 -0600
>
>
>I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on
>certified.
>This is FLAT OUT WRONG.
>
> Anyone can work on an experimental.
>
>One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional
>inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as
>airworthy.
>
>Cy Galley
>EAA Safety Programs Editor
>Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
>
> >
> > Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
> > your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by
> > an A&P or AI.
> >
> > Dave
> >
> > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>Mike:
> >>
> >>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental
>aircraft
> >>can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as far
> >>as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major mods,
> >>however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's
>blessing.
> >>Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the
> >>answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so
>many
> >>changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone who
> >>has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they
>want
> >>to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder
>to
> >>sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic
>reasons
> >>for building your own plane.
> >>
> >>Cheers George
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>Mike,
> >>>
> >>>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
> >>>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my
> >>>curiosity.
> >>>
> >>>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
> >>>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
> >>>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However,
>what
> >>>are
> >>>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans certificate
> >>>and
> >>>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a
> >>>position
> >>>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing,
> >>>and
> >>>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>---------------------------------
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
>
>I am currently playing with a design for a heading hold -wing leveler. I
>have the electronic components mocked up in a electronic simulation (PSPICE)
>at this point. I am still debating whether to go with the analog approach
>or the digital using a PIC Microchip. The digital clearly offers more move
>for growth and change but the complexity of the algorithms are a bit much.
>The analog looks to be more straight forward - but with limited growth
>capability.
You can easily find PID code for the PIC or nearly any other
embedded controller. Use that stock code as the core for your system and
you will save yourself a ton of programming and de-bugging work.
> I am looking to make a simply (inexpensive) system that will start out as
>an manual electric aileron trim and progress from there. I believe that a
>Cascading set of simple OpAmp PID controllers looks to be the best bet (and
>least expensive) for smooth operation. This is basically two control
>loops - the outside loop would be comparing a heading signal to your set
>heading the difference would generally a roll angle requirement this would
>feed to the inside loop where the current roll angle would be compared to
>the command roll and if a difference exists the inner list would generate a
>roll rate command which would end up driving the servo.
That makes sense. Feed in the rate sensor information to the inner
loop to keep it stable and reduce the sensitivity to noise on the heading
input. Easier to do digitally, by the way.
> A small difference
>in heading would generate a small roll rate and a larger difference a faster
>roll rate (with limits of course - probably 15 deg max). Obviously quite a
>bit more complex than this brief description - but that's the general idea.
>The Unit is intended for VFR ONLY and will probably use a 1/3 scale model
>aircraft servo.
Would that have the torque needed? Also, how do you plan to clutch
the servo to allow manual over-ride?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
John & Alex, a few comments...
Alex: I'm with John, I've never heard of the LASAR brain waiting 15 minutes
to advance, where'd ya get that?
John: a couple of updates to the comments made on your site: my
understanding from Bart Lalonde is that all LASARs now come with an impluse
coupling, formerly called the "bush kit" at no additional cost. Indeed, the
system I just got on my IO-320 indeed has an impluse coupling on the right
mag. Even the system on my RV-8 which was purchased in 1999 had it and I
didn't specifically order it that way. I know because I could hear the
clicking, and we did manage to hand prop it one day when my starter failed
and we really wanted to go flying. Maybe Bart spec'd all his units that way,
he is one of the their largest dealers. Also, you mention on your site that
LASAR doesn't improve the strength/quality of the spark at low rpms -- au
contraire, if it's engaged (not in fault mode) you get all the benefit of a
very hot spark which is why it improves starting. Lastly, you and I both had
occasional cooling issues that we learned to manage, but we also both had
the Sam James cowling with reduced cooling inlets. I submit that the normal
RV cowl would pass enough air to prevent this. Your 10-1 pistons didn't help
in this area either.... ;-)
All told, I'm still a LASAR fan, although I miss Harry Fenton. There is a
new guy who took his place, Steve Carter, who Doug Reeves tells me has the
right attitude. My advice to other builders who ask is to keep an eye on the
E-mag product which looks to me like the best solution of all IF it works
and IF the company supports it properly. Time will tell.
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: LASAR/elecr ign
>
> I put about 200 hours on a LASAR system, so here are some more opinions...
>
> Alex, how do you know about the 15 minutes with no advance? I never saw
> any sign of this with mine, it always started overheating right away. I
> think you just saw that it doesn't advance the timing much at low
> altitude and full throttle. Since I am based at 7650 msl, and only get
> about 22.5" map on takeoff, my LASAR would think I was at cruise,
> advance the timing, and overheat on initial climbout. I did what Randy
> says, used a breaker switch so I could shut it off. I also had to shut
> it off on any hot summer day in cruise, trying to keep CHTs below 400.
>
> My new Lightspeed system does not suffer from any of this, and CHTs are
> about 30 dF cooler than before in any given condition.
>
> I also suffered a left mag failure at 5 hours. It was replaced promptly
> by Unison. Last year, my hangar neighbor made his first engine run with
> his LASAR system, and the "brain box" was dead. It took 3 weeks to get
> straighted out. Unison wants everyone to go through their dealer for
> service now. Harry Fenton was the greatest but he has left Unison.
>
> The problem I have with the LASAR system is that it is nothing more than
> a standard mag with variable timing. The spark is no hotter. The
> reliability is worse, since it has all the weaknesses of the mag, plus
> the electronic failure modes.
>
> Now I have a dual Lightspeed ignition with the crank pickup...no moving
> parts. Automotive spark plugs ($1.35 each). Much hotter spark,
> especially at idle. Easier hot starts (fuel injection). I only have
> about 40 hours on this system, so only time will tell of course as far
> as overall reliability.
>
> John Huft
> more opinions at http://www.lazy8.net/EI.htm
>
>
> Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>My advice is to install your LASAR on a breaker switch near
>>>the master
>>>switch so it can be turned off. The simply fact is that your
>>>engine will run
>>>hotter with LASAR because it's buring the fuel/air charge
>>>more efficiently
>>>in the combustion chamber, not in the exhaust system.
>>>Therefore you need to
>>>be aware of it. On my RV-8 I learned to turn the system off
>>>for a long
>>>climbout on a hot day, then switch it back on once leveled
>>>off. Now my RV-8
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I have 584 hours on my Lasar system now over the last 3.5 years, and here
>>are some thoughts: Regarding what Randy has written above, the system
>>does
>>not advance past the baseline 25 degrees for the first 15 minutes of
>>operation, allowing for a pretty good taxi and climbout for an RV. I
>>don't
>>believe any of the other EI's do this, and I can't say how much difference
>>it really makes. One does need to be aware of this, as fine tuning
>>mixture
>>settings for cruise should wait until this period is expired.
>>
>>Reliability wise I have had two failures. At 342 hours, the left mag
>>died.
>>It was detected by a higher than normal EGT noted during a 40 minute
>>flight,
>>and the mag check on the return showed that the left mag was sick (not
>>dead,
>>but not good either). Unison sent another mag free of charge next day to
>>me, excellent service. I left for the west coast the next day, and was
>>thinking about that new mag when over the Rocky Mountains.... At 569
>>hours,
>>during cruise flight, the engine hesitated (this tends to get one's
>>attention) for perhaps 1/4 second, then recovered. The fault light was on
>>indicating the system was in backup mode (mags running). Once over an
>>airport, I checked the L/R mags, and the left was completely dead (one
>>tends
>>to move the switch back quite rapidly when the engine completely stops
>>firing). Once again, Unison replaced it with a brand new one free of
>>charge, although this took a couple weeks this time. I suspect if I had
>>been on the road, they would have overnighted one. I never did learn what
>>the failure was on the first mag, but the recent failure was caused by a
>>broken rotor.
>>
>>So, overall, Unison really sticks behind their product, but two failures
>>of
>>two different left mags is a little troubling. Ignition systems are not
>>yet
>>trouble free - anyone's. One person here had to rebuild a lot of his cowl
>>and baffling when an encoder wheel came off inside his Electroair during
>>startup. Others have had problems with Lightspeed. It is impossible to
>>say
>>with any accuracy what anyone's system's reliability is.
>>
>>Given the performance afforded by EI, mainly fuel economy, I would not be
>>interested in running my plane on standard mags.
>>
>>Alex Peterson
>>RV6-A 584 hours
>>Maple Grove, MN
>>
>>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer's Email/website |
BOB ARCHER 310-316-8796 bobsantennas(at)earthlink.net
ANTENNAE FOR COMPOSITE SURFACES
I know he was still in business as of a month ago, when I bought an
antenna from him.
Jeff Point
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott Vanartsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
Another alternative if you have a color printer for your computer is to print white
text onto
clear labels. But it will give the area around the text a bit of a dull appearance.
You won't
have that crisp look. I did black on clear for my gray inerior.
--- Rick Galati wrote:
>
> I use a Brother PT-1950. Using 3/4" black tape, white letters and up to 4 lines
of framed
> print, it makes outstanding placards that I have used to identify components
all over the
> airframe, including firewall forward. These electronic labelers enable you to
adjust the size,
> font and other tools commonly found in your computer Word program. I'm told
you can even
> download and print images via a supplied USB cable. I used smaller width tape
to identify
> dozens upon dozens of electrical wires. Brother claims the tapes will hold up
to harsh
> industrial conditions......we shall see. FYI, the replacement cassette tapes
can be expensive.
> Other than the generic white tape with black print, I find it difficult to buy
many of
> available widths and colors locally. Brother's on-line store wanted $30 for
the aforementioned
> 3/4" black tape. I recently bought a copy at Amazon.com for about $16.00. It
pays to shop
> around.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Scott VanArtsdalen
RV-4 N311SV, FLYING!!
When a man does all he can
though it succeeds not well,
blame not him that did it."
-- George Washington
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Some else pointed that out as well. My point still is that all maintenance
needs to be done so the person that does the conditional will approve the
plane's return to service.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
> Cy,
>
> If I may. The yearly condiction inspection is to determine if the
> aircraft
> is safe to operate. I know it is a play on terms but from the FAA point
> of
> view we say that the aircraft is never airworthy because it has not been
> evaluated and issued an type certificate, only that it is "safe to
> operate".
> Other than that you are entirely correct.
>
> Mike R.
>
>>From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>>Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:07:38 -0600
>>
>>
>>I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on
>>certified.
>>This is FLAT OUT WRONG.
>>
>> Anyone can work on an experimental.
>>
>>One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional
>>inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off as
>>airworthy.
>>
>>Cy Galley
>>EAA Safety Programs Editor
>>Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
>>
>>
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
>>To:
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>>
>>
>> >
>> > Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
>> > your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by
>> > an A&P or AI.
>> >
>> > Dave
>> >
>> > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>Mike:
>> >>
>> >>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental
>>aircraft
>> >>can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as
>> >>far
>> >>as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major
>> >>mods,
>> >>however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's
>>blessing.
>> >>Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the
>> >>answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so
>>many
>> >>changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone
>> >>who
>> >>has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they
>>want
>> >>to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the builder
>>to
>> >>sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic
>>reasons
>> >>for building your own plane.
>> >>
>> >>Cheers George
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>>
>> >>>Mike,
>> >>>
>> >>>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking not
>> >>>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my
>> >>>curiosity.
>> >>>
>> >>>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and requirements
>> >>>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is the
>> >>>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However,
>>what
>> >>>are
>> >>>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans
>> >>>certificate
>> >>>and
>> >>>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a
>> >>>position
>> >>>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight testing,
>> >>>and
>> >>>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>---------------------------------
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Spark Plug quality/source |
Hey, something else new for me to ponder over. Any quality difference between
a champion plug for 20 bucks vs an Autolite for $16? I got to buy 9 (one spare
just in case) so it adds up. But Champion is what used to be in the engine
so....
What say you wise ones?
BTW, is ACS the place most buy online and get the 5% AOPA discount? Van's doesn't
sell 'em...
thx,
lucky
Hey, something else new for me to ponder over. Any quality difference between a
champion plug for 20 bucks vs an Autolite for $16? I got to buy 9 (one spare
just in case) so it adds up. But Champion is what used to be in the engine so....
What say you wise ones?
BTW, is ACS the place most buy online and get the 5% AOPA discount? Van's doesn't
sell 'em...
thx,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Bob Archer's Email/website |
Here's a phone number, 310-316-8796.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying!!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: POP rivet static port |
In a message dated 3/10/05 11:42:47 AM Pacific Standard Time, ghinman(at)mts.net
writes:
<< When installing Van's static port pop rivets.Do you set the rivet or just
glue it in place? It seems to me that if you set the rivet there will be not
much to attach the tubing to. >>
I had the same concern, so I looked around the local hardware store and found
the same size rivets with a longer grip. I set those with a dab of proseal
and also built up a fillet of proseal around the tubing after it was attached
to the rivet. It is very secure.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, 40 hour test time complete, Yeeehaawww!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph Koger" <rhkoger(at)fbx.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ |
Do You still have the engine?
I am wintering here and have a friend that needs an engine for a RV9.
Ralph Koger 480 464- 9718
2528 E McKellips Lot 134
Mesa, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: tomvelvick(at)cox.net <tomvelvick(at)cox.net>
Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ
>
>
>O-320 E2A Lycoming Engine 2279 TTSN, first run, disassembled for overhaul.
Crankshaft, Cam and Rods have been overhauled by Aircraft Specialities in
Tulsa, Ok. Crankshaft has standard grind on rod and main bearings, was not
turned down. Crankshaft and rods were also balanced to help the engine run
smoother while at Aircraft Specialities. Does not include mags or starter
(bendix and heavy old starter) unless you want them for a core, but does
include the carburator. This engine has the hollow crank and can be set up
for constant speed. Dynafocal mount. $5000.00 I was rebuilding this engine
for my rv-6a project, but came across a O-360 A1A with 600 SMOH that I
bought. Contact Tom Velvick 623-979-2519 home 623-261-2906 cell see
pictures at www.eaa538.org/forsale.html
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
>
> I put about 200 hours on a LASAR system, so here are some
> more opinions...
>
> Alex, how do you know about the 15 minutes with no advance? I
> never saw
> any sign of this with mine, it always started overheating
> right away. I
> think you just saw that it doesn't advance the timing much at low
> altitude and full throttle. Since I am based at 7650 msl, and
> only get
> about 22.5" map on takeoff, my LASAR would think I was at cruise,
> advance the timing, and overheat on initial climbout. I did
> what Randy
> says, used a breaker switch so I could shut it off. I also
> had to shut
> it off on any hot summer day in cruise, trying to keep CHTs below 400.
John, this 15 minute timer is described in the flight manual supplement that
came with the Lasar system. It starts counting when (electrical) power is
first applied, and sets the system to the "climb limit" advance, which I
believe is the 25 degree baseline. After the 15 minute timer expires, the
timing then begins to advance per some built in table. The manual doesn't
say if all systems are so programmed. It could be only those with the CHT
monitoring, I don't know. The manual also says that for those systems
equipped with the CHT temperature monitor, ignition timing is retarded as
the CHT begins to approach the high limit (I believe 425F), until at that
high limit the timing is base, or 25 degrees in our case.
Was yours CHT probe equipped? Maybe that is the difference.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 584 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | brian olofsson <brian060901(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ |
Hello: I have a 360a4a that I'm thinking about selling. 275 since major, 4 new
millenium cylinders chrome valve covers and chrone intakes O.H. by I.A. with
great reputaion. O.H. came out of a cherokee 180 "ran out of gass" no prop strike/none.
reportedly wings hit trees when he ran off the end of the runway.
brian060901(at)yahoo.com
Do You still have the engine?
I am wintering here and have a friend that needs an engine for a RV9.
Ralph Koger 480 464- 9718
2528 E McKellips Lot 134
Mesa, AZ
-----Original Message-----
From: tomvelvick(at)cox.net
Date: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: O-320 E2A for sale Phx, AZ
>
>
>O-320 E2A Lycoming Engine 2279 TTSN, first run, disassembled for overhaul.
Crankshaft, Cam and Rods have been overhauled by Aircraft Specialities in
Tulsa, Ok. Crankshaft has standard grind on rod and main bearings, was not
turned down. Crankshaft and rods were also balanced to help the engine run
smoother while at Aircraft Specialities. Does not include mags or starter
(bendix and heavy old starter) unless you want them for a core, but does
include the carburator. This engine has the hollow crank and can be set up
for constant speed. Dynafocal mount. $5000.00 I was rebuilding this engine
for my rv-6a project, but came across a O-360 A1A with 600 SMOH that I
bought. Contact Tom Velvick 623-979-2519 home 623-261-2906 cell see
pictures at www.eaa538.org/forsale.html
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
> I've looked the statement that the *owner* can do no more than he can on
> certified. This is FLAT OUT WRONG. Anyone can work on an experimental
>
> Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
> your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by
> an A&P or AI.
>
Cy and Youall:
I don't mind being wrong, but I have did not see the rule that states a trained
chimp, dog or a 5 year old can do Major Modifications, Alterations or Repairs,
but I guess it is inferred by exclusion. :- ) (I say only the FSDO knows, as
I stated before, and take you choice of answer.)
This stuff tends to be in the land of lawyers, courts and judges. John the lawyer
wrote me and says Mike, a FSDO inspector(?) has or will reply on this list
addressing this? My question to the Inspector and Lawyer is as follows: (Ready
to learn)
Experimental aircraft are *excluded* from part 43. Is this exemption along with
operating limitations, by exclusion and no contrary statement permit *anyone*
to modify an experimental airplane? Anyone is someone without a pilot license,
aeronautical knowledge, experience or skill (?). That does not sound like "equivalent
level of safety". I don't think the **intent** is for major mods to
be done by anyone, which is my opinion, "FLAT WRONG" as that may be. (Ready to
learn).
Part 43.1 par (b) states this part does not apply to experimental aircraft unless
it previously held a type certificate." Part 43 is called "MAINTENANCE, PREVENTIVE
MAINTENANCE, REBUILDING, AND ALTERATION". Part 43 specifies: What can
be done, Who can do it and What records to keep, to name a few.
In general the "operating limitations" typically address the 12 mo condition inspection
and who can do it (namely a the repairman or A&P). Also, I agree *typically*
nothing states restrictions to WHO can do major mods/repairs/alterations,
so the assumption is the Chimp, Dog and 5 year old can wench on a homebuilt.
That sounds like a bit of a stretch, but OK. John and Mike say it is OK. "Repairman"
is called that and not "Inspector-man" mean something? To assume only
because the *who* can do inspections is specified and *who* can do a major
alteration is not specifically restricted, mean Spot and little Jimmy can make
safety of flight mods? This is where I scratch my head. This clearly looks like
someone is making an interpretation. (ready to Learn)
This is what the EAA says: Who can maintain a Homebuilt?
FAR Part 43 specifically states that the rules of that part do not apply to amateur-built
airplanes. Therefore, any **maintenance** on an experimental airplane
can be performed virtually by anyone regardless of credentials. (This does
not apply to the condition inspection previously discussed). Let common sense
be your guide as to what maintenance you conduct.
Note: EAAs statement said nothing about major modifications, repair or alterations.
The statement "Let common sense be your guide as to what maintenance you
conduct" makes me think this is allowed? Yes, No. Is the EAA reglatory? What is
maintenance? (Ready to learn)
For the record any pilot can do "preventative" maintenance on their aircraft (certified
or not), but not anyone. You must have a pilots license, Part 61 to do
preventative maintenance per part 43 appendix A, Par. (c). Of course with A&P
direct supervision anyone can do almost anything on an aircraft. Apparently
nothing applies to an experimental aircraft. (Ready to learn)
Here is the Scenario: A pilot, with no mechanical experience buys a second hand
RV, makes some improper or un-airworthy mod, alteration or repair and crashes.
He or his estate is being sued in a court of law, defending the modification
of the aircraft, without a repairman certificate or A&P license. Also, the FAA
is revoking your pilot ticket and you must defend yourself in a court, if for
anything the catch all careless and reckless operation, Where is the legal precedence
to defend yourself? I guess we will find out but hope not the hard way.
Standing by to be amazed and astounded by FARs once again. After 20 years, may
be Ill get it. (Still learning).
Cheers George
PS interesting web site on experimental liability,
http://www.aviationlawcorp.com/content/liabhomeblt.html#disclaimer
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
>>I've looked the statement that the *owner* can do no more than he can on
>>certified. This is FLAT OUT WRONG. Anyone can work on an experimental
>>
>>Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
>>your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off by
>>an A&P or AI.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Cy and Youall:
>
>
>I don't mind being wrong, but I have did not see the rule that states a trained
chimp, dog or a 5 year old can do Major Modifications, Alterations or Repairs,
but I guess it is inferred by exclusion. :- ) (I say only the FSDO knows, as
I stated before, and take you choice of answer.)
>
>
>
George you ARE aware that Mike Robertson is DAS FED? :-)
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: LASAR/elecr ign |
Alex, mine was equipped with the CHT probe. I once asked Harry Fenton
about it, and he told me it would start to roll back the timing at 435
dF. I felt that was too high, and so I always turned it off at about 400
dF. This was about the only detail I ever got out of Harry or anyone
else there, my other questions were always answered with "thats
proprietary".
There is no mention of the 15 minute timer on the website, only the 15
second delay after power up. I sent the supplement with the rest of my
system when I sold it, so I can't look it up. Typical of me not to read
all the directions.
Randy, reading the LASAR website, I see they claim a spark that is "3
times more spark energy". So I will have to change my writeup. I was
told that there was no difference by Dave Anders, who is one of the
RVers I respect. Of course we are all wrong from time to time. I will
say, however, that my hot starts are much easier with the Lightspeed
system. Interesting that the LASAR system uses standard aircraft plugs,
with a standard gap setting (.018), but the Lightspeed uses automotive
plugs gapped at .035.
We all get to make our tradeoffs. I love these experimentals!
John
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>I put about 200 hours on a LASAR system, so here are some
>>more opinions...
>>
>>Alex, how do you know about the 15 minutes with no advance? I
>>never saw
>>any sign of this with mine, it always started overheating
>>right away. I
>>think you just saw that it doesn't advance the timing much at low
>>altitude and full throttle. Since I am based at 7650 msl, and
>>only get
>>about 22.5" map on takeoff, my LASAR would think I was at cruise,
>>advance the timing, and overheat on initial climbout. I did
>>what Randy
>>says, used a breaker switch so I could shut it off. I also
>>had to shut
>>it off on any hot summer day in cruise, trying to keep CHTs below 400.
>>
>>
>
>John, this 15 minute timer is described in the flight manual supplement that
>came with the Lasar system. It starts counting when (electrical) power is
>first applied, and sets the system to the "climb limit" advance, which I
>believe is the 25 degree baseline. After the 15 minute timer expires, the
>timing then begins to advance per some built in table. The manual doesn't
>say if all systems are so programmed. It could be only those with the CHT
>monitoring, I don't know. The manual also says that for those systems
>equipped with the CHT temperature monitor, ignition timing is retarded as
>the CHT begins to approach the high limit (I believe 425F), until at that
>high limit the timing is base, or 25 degrees in our case.
>
>Was yours CHT probe equipped? Maybe that is the difference.
>
>Alex Peterson
>RV6-A 584 hours
>Maple Grove, MN
>
>http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | J.B. Aircraft Engine Service Inc |
Is J.B. Aircraft Engine Service, Sebring FL (Jim Brod) a good place to
buy a rebuilt engine?
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to confuse
me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also going
to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
195hp.
Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around for a
good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the IO-360
M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making changes
to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
converted at all?
Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
Kevin
Yellowknife, NT, Canada
RV-8 Wanna Be Builder
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
Just as another data point, here is a forward from the Lancair list.
They have been having similar discussions.
John
-------- Original Message --------
Subject: [LML] Re: Slick Mag Failures
Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:15:56 -0500
From: Halle, John <JJHALLE(at)stoel.com>
Here is another Slick mag horror story. About three months ago, I started getting
an occasional miss in my engine (once or twice a flight.) Over time, it got
slightly more frequent but it was never more than one every few minutes. With
some experimentation, we discovered that pulling the LASAR circuit breaker
solved the problem. Also discovered that, while pulling the CB during ground
run-up made a 300 rpm difference, doing so in flight made no difference to any
engine parameter, regardless of the altitude at which it was done. Hooking
the controller box up to a laptop resulted in a perfect test score so the box
and the mags went back to Unison (where nothing happened to them for 10 days but
that's another story.) Found out yesterday that the box tests perfect but
BOTH mags are shot! I have 320 hrs. tach time on them.
I learned the mag mantra early on (probably on my first preflight in 1967): mags
are the world's most inefficient ignition system but we use them because they
are SIMPLE, RELIABLE and SAFE. And I believed it as a religious doctrine.
When I built my airplane, I selected the LASAR system precisely because it had
not one but two of these safe, reliable things that would work no matter what
if the new-fangled electronics failed. Now I discover that for the last God
knows how long, I have been flying around over mountain ranges and in hard IFR
with TWO mags that went in the dumpster as soon as the Rockford people saw them.
As a final irony, they are pretty close to the only "Certified" parts on
my engine (IO-540 exp).
I am getting a discount on two replacement mags which I intend to use while I figure
out what electronic system to go to. I intend to check them frequently,
and I don't mean the run-up check that I have done before every take-off and
that has always been perfect. Check out whatever Deakin article claims that runup
checks are a complete waste of time, which I now put more stock in than I
used to. I have no idea if the controller box is contributing anything but I
intend to test that too when I get it reinstalled. And I still don't know why
the engine missed only with the LASAR system on. Without it, I would presumably
still be fat, dumb and happy (instead of being only two of the foregoing)
flying around with two "shot" mags tbat do just fine on runup.
--
For archives and unsub http://mail.lancaironline.net/lists/lml/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Disregard my last post. I am "flat out wrong." So if you want to make that flying
RV you just bought a twin engine Bi-plane, go for it. However you may have
a hard time getting someone to give you a condition inspection.
I called my FSDO and ANYONE can make a major modification to a homebuilt as long
as they follow the limitations, as you all state. I also called an experimental
specialty shop and they confirmed this. It is nice to be wrong for a change
(again and again).
Side note, the new limitations that allow modification and phase one testing without
FAA notification or approval is no longer in fashion. The Fed's (at least
in the SE region) want control and oversight again, so according to my local
FSDO, new operating limitations will go back to requiring written approval prior
to flight test again. No big deal.
Feel like I slept at a Holiday Inn, Cheers George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Oliver Washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: J.B. Aircraft Engine Service Inc |
I have cylinder work done there and found them to be very good.
Ollie 6A
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: RV-List: J.B. Aircraft Engine Service Inc
>
> Is J.B. Aircraft Engine Service, Sebring FL (Jim Brod) a good place to
> buy a rebuilt engine?
>
> Richard Reynolds
> Norfolk, VA
> RV-6A
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | J.B. Aircraft Engine Service Inc |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
I had work on my IO-540 done there last year (various things but not really a full
rebuild) and I would give them a thumbs up. Knowledgeable, pleasant to deal
with, kept to the schedule and cost as about as expected (high--but no more
so then anywhere else!). They were responsive on a couple of follow-up items--that
weren't really their fault. So, all-in-all, from my experience, I can
recommend them without reservation.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Richard V.
Reynolds
Subject: RV-List: J.B. Aircraft Engine Service Inc
Is J.B. Aircraft Engine Service, Sebring FL (Jim Brod) a good place to
buy a rebuilt engine?
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA
RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Exactly correct.
Mike R.
>From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:26:53 -0600
>
>
>Some else pointed that out as well. My point still is that all maintenance
>needs to be done so the person that does the conditional will approve the
>plane's return to service.
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
>
> >
> > Cy,
> >
> > If I may. The yearly condiction inspection is to determine if the
> > aircraft
> > is safe to operate. I know it is a play on terms but from the FAA point
> > of
> > view we say that the aircraft is never airworthy because it has not been
> > evaluated and issued an type certificate, only that it is "safe to
> > operate".
> > Other than that you are entirely correct.
> >
> > Mike R.
> >
> >>From: "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org>
> >>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
> >>Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 16:07:38 -0600
> >>
> >>
> >>I've looked the statement that the owner can do no more than he can on
> >>certified.
> >>This is FLAT OUT WRONG.
> >>
> >> Anyone can work on an experimental.
> >>
> >>One caveat and even this might be wrong. At the yearly conditional
> >>inspection, the work has to be good enough to get the plane signed off
>as
> >>airworthy.
> >>
> >>Cy Galley
> >>EAA Safety Programs Editor
> >>Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
> >>
> >>
> >>----- Original Message -----
> >>From: "Dave Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
> >>To:
> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
> >>
> >>
> >> >
> >> > Anyone can work on a homebuilt aircraft including a trained chimp or
> >> > your dog. You just have to have the condition inspection signed off
>by
> >> > an A&P or AI.
> >> >
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >> > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
> >> >
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>Mike:
> >> >>
> >> >>You are opening a can of worms :- ) The buyer of an experimental
> >>aircraft
> >> >>can only do routine maintenance, as if it were a Piper or Cessna, as
> >> >>far
> >> >>as I know. Only the manufacture (builder/repairman) can make major
> >> >>mods,
> >> >>however I assume(?) an A&P or AI could do it and with the FAA's
> >>blessing.
> >> >>Again, as in all these matters refer to the FISDO of choice for the
> >> >>answer. There is no "type certificate" configuration for exp a/c, so
> >>many
> >> >>changes slip thru the cracks and are not tracked by the FAA. Anyone
> >> >>who
> >> >>has a second hand RV may find them self in a regulatory mess if they
> >>want
> >> >>to make a major changes. The best (easiest) thing would get the
>builder
> >>to
> >> >>sign the mod off if possible. However that is one of the fantastic
> >>reasons
> >> >>for building your own plane.
> >> >>
> >> >>Cheers George
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>Mike,
> >> >>>
> >> >>>I have a question related to this very activity ... and am asking
>not
> >> >>>so much for myself (I'm still building), but just to satisfy my
> >> >>>curiosity.
> >> >>>
> >> >>>I have had the impression that all these suggestions and
>requirements
> >> >>>have been tendered with the idea that the person doing the work is
>the
> >> >>>builder and has a repairman's certificate for the aircraft. However,
> >>what
> >> >>>are
> >> >>>the rules/regs for someone who does NOT have the repairmans
> >> >>>certificate
> >> >>>and
> >> >>>who is NOT an A/P? Somehow I can't imagine that they would be in a
> >> >>>position
> >> >>>to change their prop, put it into phase 1, perform the flight
>testing,
> >> >>>and
> >> >>>sign it off putting it back in phase 2. Or can they?
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>---------------------------------
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
Firstly, thank you for your admission. That takes some courage.
As to going back to the "old" operating limitations that require FAA
approval, that is not quite right. The order clearly states that the FAA
does not "approve" the major change, but that you MUST notify them, get
concurrence on the test area, and they reserve the right to require more
than 5 hours minimum of test flight period. Again, that is per the Order
8130.2F.
Mike Robertson
>From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 12:46:29 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Disregard my last post. I am "flat out wrong." So if you want to make that
>flying RV you just bought a twin engine Bi-plane, go for it. However you
>may have a hard time getting someone to give you a condition inspection.
>
>I called my FSDO and ANYONE can make a major modification to a homebuilt as
>long as they follow the limitations, as you all state. I also called an
>experimental specialty shop and they confirmed this. It is nice to be wrong
>for a change (again and again).
>
>Side note, the new limitations that allow modification and phase one
>testing without FAA notification or approval is no longer in fashion. The
>Fed's (at least in the SE region) want control and oversight again, so
>according to my local FSDO, new operating limitations will go back to
>requiring written approval prior to flight test again. No big deal.
>
>Feel like I slept at a Holiday Inn, Cheers George
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Peoples <jp_rv2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Electric or Manual Trim ? |
Thanks for the responses...
I have found more in the archive, but these really summed up the options clearly.
Today I sent my empennage order in to Van's... now if i can just get the hang
of using the rv-list, there may be hope for my future.
jp
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
Mickey;
I used a file to get a better fit between the two halves of the wheel
pants. A square or flat file will do.
I also used Poly-Fibre "Smooth Prime" to prime them . It goes on with a
small roller and you can push down to squish it into the pinholes in that #$%
&*
fibre glas. A/C S has it in the glas & resins section of their catalog.
Mix small amounts since it goes a long way. It washes up with water and sands
into lots of snow on the floor. A couple of coats usually takes care of
the pinholes.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PeterHunt1(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Looking for FWF photos |
Dean,
I just finished my FWF and you are welcome to drop by for a look and a chat
of what I did and why I did it. I moved the airplane from my living room to my
garage last weekend and hope to have it in the air by May.
Pete Hunt, Clearwater
RV-6, N216PH
All electric IFR panel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug quality/source |
I got my last set from Van's @ $16. He sells the sutolite. they look
good, work good so far. Couple hundred hours. You got to search the
"list" for Plugs.
DLW
On Mar 11, 2005, at 10:29 AM, lucky wrote:
>
> Hey, something else new for me to ponder over. Any quality difference
> between a champion plug for 20 bucks vs an Autolite for $16? I got to
> buy 9 (one spare just in case) so it adds up. But Champion is what
> used to be in the engine so....
>
> What say you wise ones?
>
> BTW, is ACS the place most buy online and get the 5% AOPA discount?
> Van's doesn't sell 'em...
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> Hey, something else new for me to ponder over. Any quality difference
> between a champion plug for 20 bucks vs an Autolite for $16? I got to
> buy 9 (one spare just in case) so it adds up. But Champion is what
> used to be in the engine so....
>
> What say you wise ones?
>
> BTW, is ACS the place most buy online and get the 5% AOPA discount?
> Van's doesn't sell 'em...
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | White Letters for Panel |
Subject: RV-List: White Letters for Panel
OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker suitable
for the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age old question
on what make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to print out
quality labels with white letters that will actually stick to the panel
paint over time? Prefer one I just run to to Staples or Office Max and pick
up.
I have found that the lettering on the label, if not protected with some
type of overlay, wears off if touched often.
The most common victims in my aircraft are carb heat and fuel selector
labels and they need replacement about every 300 hrs
(using Casio with gold lettering, black background on black panel).
George in Langley BC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | White Letters for Panel |
The Brother P-Touch machine I have uses laminated tapes; I doubt they'd ever wear
off.
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SportAV8R(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Spark Plug quality/source |
Spruce offers a 5% discount to AOPA members??
I wish I had known that; I've dropped a fortune there over the years.
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Label Makers |
lucky wrote:
>
>OK, I have the day off and ready to go out and buy a label maker
>suitable for the panel. Can someone give me the final answer to the age
old question on what make/model of label maker & label paper it takes to
print out quality labels with white letters that will actually stick to the
panel paint over time? Prefer one I just run to Staples or Office Max and
pick up.
>
One bit of info that may help many builders like myself...
I bought the Brother P-Touch label maker then order a 1/4" "Industrial
Adhesive" TZ tape from some on-line shop.
The extra sticky tape clings tenaciously to wiring, panels, whatever.
The backside of the 1/4" tape has a split running lengthwise and makes for
simple removal of the backing.
The wider tape backing is not split; requires a sharp fingernail; and are
frustrating to say the least.
Kelly Patterson
RV-6A tip FWF & I hate fiberglass
PHX, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | sun 100 cancelled |
There is no joy in mudville. See
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/sunfunracebulletin.php
John Huft
RV8 "Nuisance"
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Odyssey Battery Installation Kit with Panasonic |
Walter has a great mod here that I used for another reason.
My Panasonic 20 Ah battery was an interference fit in the Van's PC680
battery box as it was binding at the corners. I cut one corner of the box
and installed the hinge. Now I can pull the battery by pulling the hinge
pin. If you get the Panasonic, which sells for under $50 from Digikey, you
will need to do this mod to the box.
Kelly Patterson
RV-6A with an Emag FWF
PHX, AZ
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
I made a quick modification which is to make the front panel
of the box removable so the battery just pops out the front.
I used hinges on each side to retain the front of the box.
It works very well and is simple to do.
http://www.rv7-a.com/firewall_finish.htm#battery box mods
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net> |
I hate fiberglass too Mickey, but had pretty good results with the following
method. BTW - Van's plans & instructions are very good in this area.
First get the pants to fit with a tight line - don't worry about a step or
ridge between them, it will sand and fill. Use a random orbit sander for
the smooth finish.
Next buy intersection fairings from Fairings Etc.
http://www.fairings-etc.com/ or your favorite supplier. These are excellent
parts and only require minor fitting, sanding and glassing to the pants.
You should also use a heat gun to warm any low / high spots and gently bend
the glass a little at a time to shape. It is very flexible when warm.
Next check out this website: http://rv8a.tripod.com/fiberglass.html and
finish the fairings together. Have fun making dust. (NOT!!!)
Kelly Patterson
95 % aluminum plane builder
PHX, AZ
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: RV-List: Wheel pants
Hi,
I'm very "glass challenged", which is why I'm building
an aluminum airplane.
Anyone have any special tricks for doing the wheel pants?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | CherryMax Rivets |
What are "CherryMax" rivets. I read on a web site that a builder was using
them but I have no idea what they are.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CherryMax Rivets |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: CherryMax Rivets
>
> What are "CherryMax" rivets. I read on a web site that a builder was
> using
> them but I have no idea what they are.
>
Cherrymax rivets are structural "aircraft grade" pop rivets. They are a
direct structural replacement for driven rivets. In addition to the normal
diameters, they also come in slightly over-diameter sizes to help in
situations where the hole is larger than standard. They are very handy if
you need a structural rivet in a location where you're unable to use a
driven rivet.
Those are the "pro's".
The con's are that the rivets are expensive. I don't have a price sheet
handy, but IIRC, they are 5x or more as expensive as hardware store pop
rivets and probably 50x as expensive as driven rivets. Also, since they
have a steel (?) center core, they are much more difficult to drill out than
conventional rivets or hardware store pop rivets.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
>
>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to confuse
>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
>going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also going
>to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
>195hp.
>
>Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around for a
>good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
>versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the IO-360
>M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
>
>Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
>modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making changes
>to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
>and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
>converted at all?
>
>Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
inlet for engine induction air intake).
Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
here.
Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
IO-360-B1B
IO-360-B1C
IO-360-B1D
IO-360-B1F
IO-360-B1F6
IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
IO-360-B4A
IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
the mods are before buying this one.).
IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop governor).
IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop governor).
Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
The following models look like they might cause grief:
IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
etc. But I'm guessing here.
IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
engine mounts that Van sells.
The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CherryMax Rivets |
Kevin Williams wrote:
>
>What are "CherryMax" rivets. I read on a web site that a builder was using
>them but I have no idea what they are.
>
pop rivets on steroids
They are 'aviation quality' pulled rivets. Cherry is a brand name.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Sanding out paint |
Just say you painted your airplane yourself and saved $5000 to $10000, but it wasn't
perfect. Did I tell you I painted it myself? I used Imron, single stage.
And just say you wanted to sand it out in a few "orange peel" areas. What's
the best method and stuff to use?
Rich Crosley
RV-8, N948RC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding out paint |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: Sanding out paint
>
> Just say you painted your airplane yourself and saved $5000 to $10000, but
> it wasn't perfect. Did I tell you I painted it myself? I used Imron,
> single stage. And just say you wanted to sand it out in a few "orange
> peel" areas. What's the best method and stuff to use?
>
> Rich Crosley
> RV-8, N948RC
It ain't easy. You need to wet sand, beginning with no coarser than 800
grit paper, progressing to 1600 and maybe a step beyond that. Then you need
to buff the paint to a final sheen using a rotary buffer and an appropriate
buffing compound. Your local auto body store (the one where you bought the
Imron) should be able to point you in the right direction.
If you have not done this before, you're likely to have at least two
problems:
1) If you sand enough to remove the orange peel, you're likely to sand
through the paint in a few areas - particularly rivet heads and/or panel
edges.
2) If you've never used a high speed buffer before, you're likely to mess up
a time or two and "catch" a panel edge with a buffing pad. This will either
burn the paint, deform the edge, or rip the paint loose.
One thought - if it is just a few areas, why not hire a pro for $200 to come
by and spend a saturday at your shop sanding and buffing. It'll be $200
well spent (as compared to buying or renting a buffer, possibly making a
mess and having to re-spray, etc.)
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sanding out paint |
| From: | Kendel McCarley <kmmccarley(at)earthlink.net> |
Ah... a question right up my alley. Today's project is to finish paint
a '77 MG Midget (http://home.earthlink.net/~kmmccarley/77midget.html),
so I'm taking a break from sanding right now.
There was a good article in EAA Sport Aviation a few years back on this
subject. The short of it is...
- All modern paints will orange peel at least some and color sanding is
a necessary thing for a show quality job
- Start with an appropriate grit... from 800 to 1200 depending on
imperfections
- Sand each grit in a single direction... orthogonal to the previous
grit. The idea is to cross-cut the grooves made by the previous grit.
- 2000 grit is about the end of sanding. After that, you're into using
a polisher with different compounds up to a "glaze".
What I've learned from doing color sanding is...
- A rough cut compound on the polisher will take over after 1600 grit
- A little dish washing soap (and I do mean a little) in the water
bucket will help sandpaper glide over the paint to make the process
easier. Just keep dipping that paper into the soapy water.
- A variety of foam rubber backing blocks help. I even use an old,
thick neoprene mouse pad for a backing pad at times.
- Runs and drips are easily removed with a burr put onto a razor blade
and then drawn across the imperfection
- Don't try to do all your sanding at once. Impatience is the enemy,
so beer, bathroom, and BSing with a buddy breaks will make the job come
out better.
Good luck with this. I've seen some RVs with "crappy" amateur paint
jobs that could be turned into gleaming projects with the application of
some elbow grease. My final piece of advice would be to do just one
section at a time. Once you see how well a 3' x 3' area can turn out,
you'll be hooked.
>
> Just say you painted your airplane yourself and saved $5000 to $10000, but it
wasn't perfect. Did I tell you I painted it myself? I used Imron, single stage.
And just say you wanted to sand it out in a few "orange peel" areas. What's
the best method and stuff to use?
>
> Rich Crosley
> RV-8, N948RC
>
--
Kendel McCarley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sanding out paint |
Rich, That stuff is tuff as nails!! Very hard to sand and buff back up to
a nice finish. I would sand the orange peel and use Clear over the whole
aircraft at this point. Imron is available in clear.
Tom in Ohio
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: Sanding out paint
>
> Just say you painted your airplane yourself and saved $5000 to $10000, but
> it wasn't perfect. Did I tell you I painted it myself? I used Imron,
> single stage. And just say you wanted to sand it out in a few "orange
> peel" areas. What's the best method and stuff to use?
>
> Rich Crosley
> RV-8, N948RC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Gummo" <T.gummo(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: sun 100 cancelled |
The two air races that started at Apple Valley, CA (CopperState and Golden
West-I think) which Aircraft Spruce sponsored have been canceled for the
last several years over insurance issues. So I bet Sun-in-Fun Races don't
come back either. I didn't get to see the end but did enjoy helping get
them off as our EAA Chapter 768 helped Spruce organize things at APV.
Tom Gummo
Fired "Race Marshall" :-(
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Huft" <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: RV-List: sun 100 cancelled
>
> There is no joy in mudville. See
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/sunfunracebulletin.php
>
> John Huft
> RV8 "Nuisance"
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
>
>>
>>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to
>>confuse
>>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
>>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc.
Kevin,
Be aware that it is a pretty big pain and fairly expensive to set up an
engine and fuel system for inverted flight. If all you really want to do is
"basic" aerobatics you don't need to set the airplane up for inverted
flight. You can do loops, rolls, cubans, split esses, snaps and sort of
cheating hammerheads with a carburator and normal fuel and oil systems.
That is a lot of pretty fun stuff. To do sustained inverted flight you need
the inverted systems. Have you done sustained inverted flight? Do you
really like negative G? Do you think all that work is worth it?
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Morley Bullock <bullockm(at)shaw.ca> |
There is an RV-6 business opportunity on ebay under aircraft projects if
anyone is interested.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was: |
I question the statement about a FSDO going back and requiring permission
when the current FAA order and operating limits are not written that way.
Here is what Earl Lawrence had to say.
Note! Once again the individuals at a FSDO make up their rules contrary to
the official rules. Some one pointed out that a polite request to see the
written source can be educational.
Cy Galley
EAA Safety Programs Editor
Always looking for ideas and articles for EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Earl Lawrence" <elawrence(at)eaa.org>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
Yes and No
Can the region do it without violating FAA policy no. Is FAA HQ going to do
anything about it NO. That is why every EAA member should only go to EAA
Volunteer AB DARS as they follow the official rules not the local FAA made
up ones. And no the policy is not going back to requiring FAA written
approval despite what the local FAA folks wish would happen. FAA
management wants those local FAA folks worrying about the airlines not some
homebuilder.
Earl
-----Original Message-----
From: cgalley [mailto:cgalley(at)qcbc.org]
Subject: Fw: RV-List: Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
Is this possible to change operating limitations for just one region.
Thought the FAA was trying to standardize.
----- Original Message -----
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Re: Prop replacement, question for Das Fed, was:
>
> Disregard my last post. I am "flat out wrong." So if you want to make that
> flying RV you just bought a twin engine Bi-plane, go for it. However you
> may have a hard time getting someone to give you a condition inspection.
>
> I called my FSDO and ANYONE can make a major modification to a homebuilt
> as long as they follow the limitations, as you all state. I also called an
> experimental specialty shop and they confirmed this. It is nice to be
> wrong for a change (again and again).
>
> Side note, the new limitations that allow modification and phase one
> testing without FAA notification or approval is no longer in fashion. The
> Fed's (at least in the SE region) want control and oversight again, so
> according to my local FSDO, new operating limitations will go back to
> requiring written approval prior to flight test again. No big deal.
>
> Feel like I slept at a Holiday Inn, Cheers George
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
Received-SPF: none
The only 180 HP fuel injected engine that is easy to install is the
M-series. All others have the servo in the bottom or rear of the sump and
are very tricky to set up the air system. I had purchased an IO-360-B1E
with rear facing injection and did not want to go through all the hassle of
setting up the induction so I purchased a set of intake tubes and a 200 HP
sump and installed the sump with the servo now facing forward. The intake
tubes required modification to fit the 180 HP engine. This was long before
the M-series was available, so there were no stock tubes that would fit.
New tubes are very expensive and I think you will have a hard time finding a
used set for the 180-M. None of the brackets for the fuel and mixture that
were available then would work so we had to make them also, and there is no
stock exhaust that will fit my modification. I had Larry Vetermin build an
exhaust for me. A friend of mine is building an RV-7 with the injection on
the bottom and he is not happy with the induction so he is also doing what I
did. From what he said and I have seen, the air filter set up that Van
sells for the injected engine will also need to be modified for the 180 HP
version even if you use the M-series engine. My engine with the modified
tubes has run great and many very experience pilots have commented on it's
smoothness. I did a flow test in flight and have found that the four
cylinders are within 2/10's of a gallon per hour of each other which
explains the smoothness. I installed a flop tube in the left take to give
it inverted fuel, but not the inverted oil system because I do not care for
negative g's. As someone pointed out, you can do a lot and still keep it in
the positive g's. You can even do limited inverted flight as long as you
give up altitude by pulling back slightly on the stick to give positive g's.
I can not say what people are doing with the bottom mounted fuel injection,
you may be able to use it with a scoop on the lower cowl.
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
15+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>>
>>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to
>>confuse
>>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
>>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
>>going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also going
>>to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
>>195hp.
>>
>>Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around for
>>a
>>good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
>>versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the IO-360
>>M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
>>
>>Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
>>modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making changes
>>to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
>>and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
>>converted at all?
>>
>>Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
>
> The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
> injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
> to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
> get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
> inlet for engine induction air intake).
>
> Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
> servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
> carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
> inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
> a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
> make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
> here.
>
> Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
> engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
>
> IO-360-B1B
> IO-360-B1C
> IO-360-B1D
> IO-360-B1F
> IO-360-B1F6
> IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
> IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
> IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
> IO-360-B4A
> IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
> IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
> the mods are before buying this one.).
> IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop
> governor).
> IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop governor).
>
> Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
> bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
>
> The following models look like they might cause grief:
> IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
> suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
> etc. But I'm guessing here.
>
> IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
> might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
>
> IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
> engine mounts that Van sells.
>
> The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
> warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
>
> To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
> for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
> Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
> of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
> have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
>
> There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
> differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
> misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
> IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
> tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
> 200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
> parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
> think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
>
> You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
> injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Airventure Cup Race -was Dyaton (Dayton?) experimental race... |
This race is a blast! I've done it two years now and won my class my first year
(2003). They had the 20 or so RV's in the race divided up according to displacement
that year. I was fastest of the O-320 RV's with my fixed pitch 150 RV-4.
Like you, I didn't think I could win either. Boy was I surprised.
Last year there were fewer planes in the race, and they didn't divide up the classes.
So I raced against IO-360 powered RV's and came in 4th (like 10 of us total
I think). We need more RV's to show up.
If you can follow instructions, fly your airplane with some degree of authority,
keep your head on a swivel, and don't freak out when near other planes then
you'll have no problem. Honestly, I think flying the fly-in arrival procedure
at Sun-N-Fun is more dangerous and demanding. If you've flown to OSH before and
shot the arrival when it's halfway busy and didn't have any issues with it all,
then you have what it takes.
Like Jon Huft says... it really doesn't matter who wins -we all have a ball. Really.
It's a roving airplane-nut party with some fast cross-country flying thrown
in. Lots of extra perks, like a catered dinner *in* the Air Force Museum -right
on the museum floor with the planes. We had the whole place to ourselves
for 3+ hours. You get to hang out with some really cool people too. We have some
dinners at OSH too -lots of fun social time.
Ya'll come race with us!!! I've heard EAA wants to nix this race -they don't think
it really 'benefits the membership' -I've heard. *Everyone* who shows up
for it has a really fun time.
I'm convinced that if most of you came, you'd have a ball too...
Scott
N4ZW
'Race 74' -"Think Fast"
>>> I will be there. No formation skills required. It is lots of fun, it
doesn't matter where you finish (well, maybe a little).
John Huft
Race 13 "Nuisance"
Charles Heathco wrote:
>
>I was wondering if any of our group plans to run in this race, especially
any
of the formation folks as they would have the requisite skills. (Mike, the
super
8 gonna be ready by then?) I think it might be fun, but in my 150hp FP,
it
would be prop wash city for me :-) charlie heathco
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
Thanks for the info it all helps alot.
Ok so to keep the headaches down to a minimum I should really be looking for
the M1B. I think this is a fairly new engine though and I suspect there
won't be many out there on the used market.
Larry you made some very good points about whether I want and need an
inverted system. Now that it has been pointed out that I can do all I want
to do with a standard no inverted system I'll probably drop the inverted
bit.
Kevin
Yellowknife, NT, Canada
RV-8 Wanna Be Builder
From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:33:38 -0500
The only 180 HP fuel injected engine that is easy to install is the
M-series. All others have the servo in the bottom or rear of the sump and
are very tricky to set up the air system. I had purchased an IO-360-B1E
with rear facing injection and did not want to go through all the hassle of
setting up the induction so I purchased a set of intake tubes and a 200 HP
sump and installed the sump with the servo now facing forward. The intake
tubes required modification to fit the 180 HP engine. This was long before
the M-series was available, so there were no stock tubes that would fit.
New tubes are very expensive and I think you will have a hard time finding a
used set for the 180-M. None of the brackets for the fuel and mixture that
were available then would work so we had to make them also, and there is no
stock exhaust that will fit my modification. I had Larry Vetermin build an
exhaust for me. A friend of mine is building an RV-7 with the injection on
the bottom and he is not happy with the induction so he is also doing what I
did. From what he said and I have seen, the air filter set up that Van
sells for the injected engine will also need to be modified for the 180 HP
version even if you use the M-series engine. My engine with the modified
tubes has run great and many very experience pilots have commented on it's
smoothness. I did a flow test in flight and have found that the four
cylinders are within 2/10's of a gallon per hour of each other which
explains the smoothness. I installed a flop tube in the left take to give
it inverted fuel, but not the inverted oil system because I do not care for
negative g's. As someone pointed out, you can do a lot and still keep it in
the positive g's. You can even do limited inverted flight as long as you
give up altitude by pulling back slightly on the stick to give positive g's.
I can not say what people are doing with the bottom mounted fuel injection,
you may be able to use it with a scoop on the lower cowl.
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
15+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>>
>>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to
>>confuse
>>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
>>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
>>going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also
going
>>to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
>>195hp.
>>
>>Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around
for
>>a
>>good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
>>versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the IO-360
>>M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
>>
>>Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
>>modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making
changes
>>to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
>>and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
>>converted at all?
>>
>>Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
>
> The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
> injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
> to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
> get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
> inlet for engine induction air intake).
>
> Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
> servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
> carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
> inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
> a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
> make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
> here.
>
> Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
> engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
>
> IO-360-B1B
> IO-360-B1C
> IO-360-B1D
> IO-360-B1F
> IO-360-B1F6
> IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
> IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
> IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
> IO-360-B4A
> IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
> IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
> the mods are before buying this one.).
> IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop
> governor).
> IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop
governor).
>
> Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
> bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
>
> The following models look like they might cause grief:
> IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
> suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
> etc. But I'm guessing here.
>
> IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
> might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
>
> IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
> engine mounts that Van sells.
>
> The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
> warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
>
> To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
> for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
> Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
> of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
> have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
>
> There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
> differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
> misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
> IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
> tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
> 200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
> parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
> think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
>
> You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
> injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
Received-SPF: none
Kevin,
I think you will have a very hard time finding an M-series engine as they
have only been out for about three years. I am not sure if this is the same
engine that they are using in the late model C-172 or not. If you can find
a wrecked one, you can use the sump and tubes and then Van's stock exhaust
will work.
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kevin Williams" <kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
> Thanks for the info it all helps alot.
>
> Ok so to keep the headaches down to a minimum I should really be looking
> for
> the M1B. I think this is a fairly new engine though and I suspect there
> won't be many out there on the used market.
>
> Larry you made some very good points about whether I want and need an
> inverted system. Now that it has been pointed out that I can do all I
> want
> to do with a standard no inverted system I'll probably drop the inverted
> bit.
>
>
> Kevin
>
> Yellowknife, NT, Canada
> RV-8 Wanna Be Builder
>
>
> From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
> Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:33:38 -0500
>
>
> The only 180 HP fuel injected engine that is easy to install is the
> M-series. All others have the servo in the bottom or rear of the sump and
> are very tricky to set up the air system. I had purchased an IO-360-B1E
> with rear facing injection and did not want to go through all the hassle
> of
> setting up the induction so I purchased a set of intake tubes and a 200 HP
> sump and installed the sump with the servo now facing forward. The intake
> tubes required modification to fit the 180 HP engine. This was long
> before
> the M-series was available, so there were no stock tubes that would fit.
> New tubes are very expensive and I think you will have a hard time finding
> a
> used set for the 180-M. None of the brackets for the fuel and mixture
> that
> were available then would work so we had to make them also, and there is
> no
> stock exhaust that will fit my modification. I had Larry Vetermin build
> an
> exhaust for me. A friend of mine is building an RV-7 with the injection
> on
> the bottom and he is not happy with the induction so he is also doing what
> I
> did. From what he said and I have seen, the air filter set up that Van
> sells for the injected engine will also need to be modified for the 180 HP
> version even if you use the M-series engine. My engine with the modified
> tubes has run great and many very experience pilots have commented on it's
> smoothness. I did a flow test in flight and have found that the four
> cylinders are within 2/10's of a gallon per hour of each other which
> explains the smoothness. I installed a flop tube in the left take to give
> it inverted fuel, but not the inverted oil system because I do not care
> for
> negative g's. As someone pointed out, you can do a lot and still keep it
> in
> the positive g's. You can even do limited inverted flight as long as you
> give up altitude by pulling back slightly on the stick to give positive
> g's.
> I can not say what people are doing with the bottom mounted fuel
> injection,
> you may be able to use it with a scoop on the lower cowl.
> Jim
>
> Jim Cimino
> N7TL
> RV-8 S/N 80039
> 15+ Hours
> http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>
> >
> >>
> >>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to
> >>confuse
> >>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im
> >>going
> >>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
> >>going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also
> going
> >>to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
> >>195hp.
> >>
> >>Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around
> for
> >>a
> >>good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
> >>versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the
> >>IO-360
> >>M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
> >>
> >>Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
> >>modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making
> changes
> >>to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be
> >>bought
> >>and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
> >>converted at all?
> >>
> >>Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
> >
> > The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
> > injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
> > to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
> > get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
> > inlet for engine induction air intake).
> >
> > Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
> > servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
> > carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
> > inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
> > a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
> > make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
> > here.
> >
> > Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
> > engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
> >
> > IO-360-B1B
> > IO-360-B1C
> > IO-360-B1D
> > IO-360-B1F
> > IO-360-B1F6
> > IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
> > IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
> > IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
> > IO-360-B4A
> > IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
> > IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
> > the mods are before buying this one.).
> > IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop
> > governor).
> > IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop
> governor).
> >
> > Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
> > bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
> >
> > The following models look like they might cause grief:
> > IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
> > suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
> > etc. But I'm guessing here.
> >
> > IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
> > might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
> >
> > IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
> > engine mounts that Van sells.
> >
> > The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
> > warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
> >
> > To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
> > for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
> > Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
> > of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
> > have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
> >
> > There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
> > differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
> > misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
> > IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
> > tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
> > 200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
> > parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
> > think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
> >
> > You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
> > injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
> > --
> > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> > Ottawa, Canada
> > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
I bought an IO-360-B1B built by Aero Sport Power from Superior parts for my
RV-8a. This is a nominal 180 hp engine with an Airflow Performance fuel
injection system mounted on the bottom of the sump, and LightSpeed ignition
on the right side. I am currently fitting the filtered air box, which I had
to offset about 3/4" to the right to get it to line up with the air scoop in
the cowl. This engine really seems to be designed for the RV-8/8a. I have
encountered no real problems yet that were not due to me not knowing what I
was doing. I would also suggest that Bart at Aero Sport Power in Kamloops
would be an excellent source of information. He might also be able to
rebuild or modify an engine that you might find used.
Terry
RV-8A
Seattle
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Williams
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
Thanks for the info it all helps alot.
Ok so to keep the headaches down to a minimum I should really be looking for
the M1B. I think this is a fairly new engine though and I suspect there
won't be many out there on the used market.
Larry you made some very good points about whether I want and need an
inverted system. Now that it has been pointed out that I can do all I want
to do with a standard no inverted system I'll probably drop the inverted
bit.
Kevin
Yellowknife, NT, Canada
RV-8 Wanna Be Builder
> You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
> injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
> --
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
>
>Kevin,
> I think you will have a very hard time finding an M-series engine as they
>have only been out for about three years. I am not sure if this is the same
>engine that they are using in the late model C-172 or not. If you can find
>a wrecked one, you can use the sump and tubes and then Van's stock exhaust
>will work.
The new C-172s have an IO-360-L2A, according to the C172 TCDS. The
IO-360 TCDS says that this engine is similar to an IO-360-B2F, except
for a lower rating (the standard rating of the L2A is 160 hp at 2400
rpm, although it has an alternate rating of 180 hp at 2700 rpm).
Being similar to an IO-360-B2F means a bottom mounted fuel injection
servo, and a fixed pitch prop. So, I'm not sure there is any
advantage to finding one of these engines.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | White Letters for Panel |
Wow, didn't expect all the varying responses. I did put all the responses in one
word document for future reference. One thing someone told me was that with
their powdwer coated panel, the tape wouldn't stick. I see the TZS is the super
stick laminated tape, as opposed to just the TZ and it also comes in white
on clear. So I thought I'd pass that along. I didn't see anything but the
TZ in the local stores but you can order this super sticky stuff online cheaper
than the normal stuff was in the local stores.
Lucky
TZS135 View Product Advisor
1/2" White on Clear Extra Strength Tape 4 of 20 matches
Printer Friendly Version
Estimated Street Price: $18.99
About
This tape features our exclusive laminated tape process and our Extra Strength
Adhesive with up to twice the adhesive strength of our Standard Laminated tapes.
These labels stay on under both normal conditions and in harsh indoor and outdoor
environments. Recommended for use on textured, rough or uneven surfaces.
Great for slippery painted metal items or powder coated surfaces. Each tape
is 26.2 ft. long.
Wow, didn't expect all the varying responses. I did put all the responses in one
word document for future reference. One thing someone told me was that with
their powdwer coated panel, the tape wouldn't stick. I see the TZS is the super
stick laminated tape, as opposed to just the TZ and it also comes in white on
clear. So I thought I'd pass that along. I didn't see anything but the TZ in
the local stores but you can order this super sticky stuff online cheaper than
the normal stuff was in the local stores.
Lucky
TZS135
View Product Advisor
 http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/ButtonEnd.gif" width=5>
1/2" White on Clear Extra Strength Tape
http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/PreviousArrow_On.gif" width=7 border=0>
4 of 20 matches
http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/NextArrow_On.gif" width=7 border=0>
Printer Friendly Version
http://www.advizia.com/accountimages/145/1130/hires/TZS135.jpg" vspace=17>
Estimated Street Price: $18.99
http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/clear.gif" width=4>
http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/TabL_On.gif" width=3>
About
http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/TabR_On.gif" width=5>
This tape features our exclusive laminated tape process and our Extra Strength
Adhesive with up to twice the adhesive strength of our Standard Laminated tapes.
These labels stay on under both normal conditions and in harsh indoor and outdoor
environments. Recommended for use on textured, rough or uneven surfaces.
Great for slippery painted metal items or powder coated surfaces. Each tape
is 26.2 ft. long.
http://www.advizia.com/accountimages/145/where2buy2.jpg" width=160 border=0>
http://www.advizia.com/brother/images/clear.gif" width=15>
http://www.advizia.com/accountimages/145/brothermall2.gif" border=0>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | lycoming breather tube |
Van's FW drawing shows the bottom bend of their breather tube facing forwards (looking
kind of like a ram air effect is going on). They don't show any exhaust
stack in relation to the breather tube. How important is it to mount the bend
in the tube forward and should I have mounted the breather tube so that the
overflow would have landed on the hot exhaust or just let the crap fall on the
inside of the cowl?
Also, they hint two adel clamps should be used but I only used one because I didn't
want to hard mount the tube so much since it's attached to the shaking engine.
Is that going to generally be OK or should I go with what Van's sort of
drew?
thx,
lucky
Van's FW drawing shows the bottom bend of their breather tube facing forwards (looking
kind of like a ram air effect is going on). They don't show any exhaust
stack in relation to the breather tube. How important is it to mount the bend
in the tube forward and should I have mounted the breather tube so that the
overflow would have landed on the hot exhaust or just let the crap fall on the
inside of the cowl?
Also, they hint two adel clamps should be used but I only used one because I didn't
want to hard mount the tube so much since it's attached to the shaking engine.
Is that going to generally be OK or should I go with what Van's sort ofdrew?
thx,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | lycoming breather tube |
>Van's FW drawing shows the bottom bend of their breather tube facing
>forwards (looking kind of like a ram air effect is going on). They don't
>show any exhaust stack in relation to the breather tube. How important is
>it to mount the bend in the tube forward and should I have mounted the
>breather tube so that the overflow would have landed on the hot exhaust or
>just let the crap fall on the inside of the cowl?
>
>Also, they hint two adel clamps should be used but I only used one because
>I didn't want to hard mount the tube so much since it's attached to the
>shaking engine. Is that going to generally be OK or should I go with what
>Van's sort of drew?
>
>
>thx,
>lucky
>
I have my vent hose routed straight down and discharging directly over the
top of one of the pipes maybe a couple of inches forward of the firewall
plane. A short length of steel pipe is inserted into the hose (length of
rubber radiator hose) and a single adel clamp mounts it to the engine mount.
The remaining free length of rubber hose allows it to move with the wobbly
shaky Lycosaur.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <flynlow(at)usaviator.net> |
| Subject: | Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
I am building an RV-8 and I have an IO-360-A1A which I believe is 200HP. Are
you telling me that it will not work?
I also have a Hartzel CS prop.
Bud Silvers
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to confuse
>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
>going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also going
>to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
>195hp.
>
>Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around for
a
>good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
>versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the IO-360
>M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
>
>Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
>modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making changes
>to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
>and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
>converted at all?
>
>Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
inlet for engine induction air intake).
Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
here.
Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
IO-360-B1B
IO-360-B1C
IO-360-B1D
IO-360-B1F
IO-360-B1F6
IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
IO-360-B4A
IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
the mods are before buying this one.).
IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop governor).
IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop governor).
Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
The following models look like they might cause grief:
IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
etc. But I'm guessing here.
IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
engine mounts that Van sells.
The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
--
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
flynlow(at)usaviator.net
Subject: RE: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
I am building an RV-8 and I have an IO-360-A1A which I believe is 200HP.
Are you telling me that it will not work?
I also have a Hartzel CS prop.
Bud Silvers
Bud: The first factory -8 was built with a 200hp engine. Dana
Overall's Feb flyin brought in several -8's with the 200hp engines. The
first "snorkle" intake was developed for the forward looking servo on
that aircraft.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
I only listed 180 hp IO-360s, as that was what the original poster
was interested in. The IO-360-A1A will be perfect.
Kevin
>
>I am building an RV-8 and I have an IO-360-A1A which I believe is 200HP. Are
>you telling me that it will not work?
>
>I also have a Hartzel CS prop.
>
>Bud Silvers
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>
>>
>>Every time I think Ive got my engine decided, something comes up to confuse
>>me. Im building a RV-8. I decided on an IO-360 180 HP engine. Im going
>>to set it up for basic aerobatics so inverted oil system etc. Im also
>>going with a dual electronic ignition Lasar or Light speed. Im also going
>>to have high compression pistons put in to bump up the power closer to
>>195hp.
>>
>>Ok So I thought I had it all figured out then I started looking around for
>a
>>good deal on a mid time engine and I cant believe how many different
>>versions of the IO-360 180hp engine there are. I see vans has the IO-360
>>M1B listed as the default 180hp engine.
>>
>>Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
>>modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making changes
>>to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
>>and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
>>converted at all?
>>
>>Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
>
>The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
>injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
>to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
>get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
>inlet for engine induction air intake).
>
>Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
>servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
>carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
>inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
>a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
>make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
>here.
>
>Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
>engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
>
>IO-360-B1B
>IO-360-B1C
>IO-360-B1D
>IO-360-B1F
>IO-360-B1F6
>IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
>IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
>IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
>IO-360-B4A
>IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
>IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
>the mods are before buying this one.).
>IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop governor).
>IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop governor).
>
>Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
>bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
>
>The following models look like they might cause grief:
>IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
>suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
>etc. But I'm guessing here.
>
>IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
>might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
>
>IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
>engine mounts that Van sells.
>
>The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
>warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
>
>To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
>for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
>Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
>of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
>have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
>
>There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
>differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
>misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
>IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
>tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
>200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
>parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
>think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
>
>You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
>injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
Received-SPF: none
Bud,
There is no problem with A1A as far as I know, as long as the injector
servo is facing forward.
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
150+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
> flynlow(at)usaviator.net
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines.
>
>
> I am building an RV-8 and I have an IO-360-A1A which I believe is 200HP.
> Are you telling me that it will not work?
>
> I also have a Hartzel CS prop.
>
> Bud Silvers
>
> Bud: The first factory -8 was built with a 200hp engine. Dana
> Overall's Feb flyin brought in several -8's with the 200hp engines. The
> first "snorkle" intake was developed for the forward looking servo on
> that aircraft.
>
> Gordon Comfort
> N363GC
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
I'm starting to install the ACS Engine Monitor on my TXM-360 (read
O-360) . . . the MAP Sensor they sent looks like you would just camp
a hose on it. I planned to come off the engine with a 37 degree
fitting, but maybe that's overkill?
How did other hook up their MAP to the ACS unit?
Thanks,
Bob Christensen
RV-8 to be N678RC - Engine / Panel / Finishing (Slowly!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mike Draper <mdraper(at)nww.com> |
| Subject: | #8 screws edge distance question |
Does the same general rules for edge distance for rivets also apply to
screws and platenuts?
I just started working on my RV-8 QB fuse and am installing the flooring
with #8 screws and platenuts as called out in the plans. When I trial fit
the 829APP prepunched floor skin, the #8 screw holes line up outboard of the
centerlines on both right and left sides.
The best I can get is 1/4 edge distance to the center of the #8 screw holes.
Will this work?
Thanks in advance for the replies.
-Mike Draper
RV-8 QB Fuse
Does the same
general rules for edge distance for rivets also apply to screws and
platenuts?
I just started
working on my RV-8 QB fuse and am installing the flooring with #8 screws and
platenuts as called out in the plans. When I trial fit the
829APPprepunched floor skin, the #8 screw holes line up outboard of the
centerlines on both right and left sides.
The best I can get
is 1/4 edge distance to the center of the #8 screw holes. Will
this work?
Thanks in advance
for the replies.
-Mike
Draper
RV-8 QB
Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: CherryMax Rivets |
In a message dated 3/12/05 5:46:39 AM Pacific Standard Time,
kevinsky18(at)hotmail.com writes:
<< What are "CherryMax" rivets. I read on a web site that a builder was
using
the but I have no idea what they are. >>
They are a high quality blind rivet that can be substituted for a solid rivet
in some applications. The oversize ones are roughly equivalent in shear
strength to a solid rivet of that nominal size. Check your Aircraft Spruce
catalog on page 96 for a brief description and a list of the ones they carry.
The
CherryMax grip gauge is a must for proper determination of grip length when
using CherryMax rivets.
Harry Crosby
Pleasanton, California
RV-6, flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "lancenewman" <lancenewman(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: lycoming breather tube |
Let's get something clear. Are you talking about the air/oil breather tube,
the tank vents, or the mechanical fuel pump breather tube? The air-oil
breather tube should exit close to the hot exhaust stack to minimize oil
build up on the belly. The fuel pump breather should never exit anywhere
near the hot exhaust for obvious reasons. The only forward bend I know of in
the fuel tank vents to the outboard sides of the belly. Yes they do build a
ram positive pressure of about 1/2 psi. This adds to the overall pressure on
your fuel pressure guage. If you don't have the fuel vent line open end
inside the tank high enough out of the fuel, it will dump overboard when the
tanks are full especially on a hot sunny day when your tank is facing the
sun. Happens more often on un-painted RV's. If this happens, reach inside
the tank and try to bend the line up slightly more inside the tank. It is
easy to do.
LN
RV6
Flying since last July
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: lycoming breather tube
>
>
>>Van's FW drawing shows the bottom bend of their breather tube facing
>>forwards (looking kind of like a ram air effect is going on). They don't
>>show any exhaust stack in relation to the breather tube. How important is
>>it to mount the bend in the tube forward and should I have mounted the
>>breather tube so that the overflow would have landed on the hot exhaust or
>>just let the crap fall on the inside of the cowl?
>>
>>Also, they hint two adel clamps should be used but I only used one because
>>I didn't want to hard mount the tube so much since it's attached to the
>>shaking engine. Is that going to generally be OK or should I go with what
>>Van's sort of drew?
>>
>>
>>thx,
>>lucky
>>
>
> I have my vent hose routed straight down and discharging directly over the
> top of one of the pipes maybe a couple of inches forward of the firewall
> plane. A short length of steel pipe is inserted into the hose (length of
> rubber radiator hose) and a single adel clamp mounts it to the engine
> mount.
> The remaining free length of rubber hose allows it to move with the
> wobbly
> shaky Lycosaur.
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Saylor" <dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: White Letters for Panel |
8 years ago, I had the the entire panel engraved for $135 US. I painted the
panel then used a paint stick to make the letters white.
I used the Brother Label Maker to make other permanent labels. (fuel
selector, Remote PTT, Headset jack, mic jack, Do Not Step, etc. and they are
still good after 7 years of flying) The Brother Labels are great and resist
just about everything. I tried Jasco Paint Stripper on a set of labels. It
removed the paint but not the labels.
White on Clear is not available for all models. I purchased a replacement
Brother label maker at Christmas for less than $20 US. My old one would
work on AC but would not work on batteries any more.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,642 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
I've been told that a number of people are changing from Navaid to
TruTrak and thus have Navaid servos for sale.
I'm interested in aquiring a servo (only) cheap ($200 or less).
A $75 1/3 scale RC servo was suggested, but apparently does not have a
clutch.
Any other souces for a cheap servo? (For a home-brewed wing-leveller. I
prefer not having springs hindering stick movement.)
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>I've been told that a number of people are changing from Navaid to
>TruTrak and thus have Navaid servos for sale.
>
>I'm interested in aquiring a servo (only) cheap ($200 or less).
>
>A $75 1/3 scale RC servo was suggested, but apparently does not have a
>clutch.
>
>Any other souces for a cheap servo? (For a home-brewed wing-leveller. I
>prefer not having springs hindering stick movement.)
>
>Finn
>
>
>
Have you tried the spring setup? It does work very well. I believe that
most people that are changing to TruTrak
are keeping the servos and just replacing the gyros.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS MAP Hose |
Bob,
FWIW, here's my setup...the ACS2002's MAP sensor is behind the firewall. I
wasn't sure if it's designed to withstand high temperatures, and it was no
sweat to install it behind the firewall. Figured I'd err on the
conservative side.
On cylinder #3 I used the 45-degree AN fitting that Van's called out. From
there I used the hose provided in the FWF kit to run between #3 and the
bulkhead restrictor fitting also provided with the FWF kit. Photo here:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20030720_man_press_hose.jpg
If I didn't have Lightspeed ignition, from the firewall fitting I would have
just run tubing between the barbed end on the firewall and the barbed end on
the MAP sensor.
Since I do have Lightspeed ignition, I ran tubing from the firewall fitting,
teed it out, one end to the Lightspeed, the other end to the ACS2002's MAP
sensor. See the photos about 1/2 way down this page:
http://www.rvproject.com/20030729.html
Sounds convoluted, but it's pretty straightforward. Not sure if this is the
info you were after or not. Hope it helps.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: ACS MAP Hose
>
> I'm starting to install the ACS Engine Monitor on my TXM-360 (read
> O-360) . . . the MAP Sensor they sent looks like you would just camp
> a hose on it. I planned to come off the engine with a 37 degree
> fitting, but maybe that's overkill?
>
> How did other hook up their MAP to the ACS unit?
>
> Thanks,
> Bob Christensen
> RV-8 to be N678RC - Engine / Panel / Finishing (Slowly!)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>I've been told that a number of people are changing from Navaid to
>>TruTrak and thus have Navaid servos for sale.
>>
>>I'm interested in aquiring a servo (only) cheap ($200 or less).
>>
>>A $75 1/3 scale RC servo was suggested, but apparently does not have a
>>clutch.
>>
>>Any other souces for a cheap servo? (For a home-brewed wing-leveller. I
>>prefer not having springs hindering stick movement.)
>>
>>Finn
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>Have you tried the spring setup? It does work very well. I believe that
>most people that are changing to TruTrak
>are keeping the servos and just replacing the gyros.
>
>Jerry
>
Jerry,
I'm having a hard time believeing that springs strong enough to keep
wings leveled in turbulence will not be noticable when doing aileron
rolls and such.
Finn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Finn Lassen" <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Navaid servo for sale?
>
> Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>>
>>Finn Lassen wrote:
<<<>>>
>>>
>>Have you tried the spring setup? It does work very well. I believe that
>>most people that are changing to TruTrak
>>are keeping the servos and just replacing the gyros.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
> Jerry,
> I'm having a hard time believeing that springs strong enough to keep
> wings leveled in turbulence will not be noticable when doing aileron
> rolls and such.
>
> Finn
Finn,
The spring system is unnoticable in flight. That said, it is a trim system
and not a wing leveler.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | AFM Supplement for GPS IFR Operations / Limitation |
Reference AIM 1-1-19, d. General Requirements
For experimental aircraft operating with an IFR GPS, is a FAA Approved
Aircraft Flight Manual Supplement for the GPS required for "legal"
operation?
The Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) is the new name for the old Pilot
Operating Handbook (POH).
The AFM supplement for the GPS lists operational limitation of the IFR
GPS.
Inquiring minds want to know.
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, about to fly IFR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | AFM Supplement for GPS IFR Operations / Limitation |
It may seem somewhat wierd considering you don't need to have an AFM but if
you have an IFR GPS and are using it for IFR then the supplement must be
carried on board the aircraft during IFR ops. that is because it is part of
the STC and is approved.
Mike Robertson
>From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: AFM Supplement for GPS IFR Operations / Limitation
>Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:12:54 -0500
>
>
>Reference AIM 1-1-19, d. General Requirements
>
>For experimental aircraft operating with an IFR GPS, is a FAA Approved
>Aircraft Flight Manual Supplement for the GPS required for "legal"
>operation?
>
>The Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) is the new name for the old Pilot
>Operating Handbook (POH).
>
>The AFM supplement for the GPS lists operational limitation of the IFR
>GPS.
>
>Inquiring minds want to know.
>
>Richard Reynolds
>Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, about to fly IFR
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)ashcreekwireless.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS MAP Hose |
I used a bulkhead AN-to-hose barb fitting. I mounted the ACS MAP sensor inside
the cockpit. I'll run the hose coming off the engine to the bulkhead fitting
placed in the firewall, then come off of hose barb side (cockpit side) with tubing
which will connect to the ACS MAP sensor.
Bob Brown
RV7A - wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS MAP Hose |
For what it's worth... I use the Rocky Mountain MAP sensor, which is
used by several different auto manufacturors. I mounted my on my engine
mount with a couple of adel clamps and it is holding up well in that
environment.
Karen and Robert Brown wrote:
>
>I used a bulkhead AN-to-hose barb fitting. I mounted the ACS MAP sensor inside
the cockpit. I'll run the hose coming off the engine to the bulkhead fitting
placed in the firewall, then come off of hose barb side (cockpit side) with
tubing which will connect to the ACS MAP sensor.
>
>Bob Brown
>RV7A - wiring
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Scott VanArtsdalen <svanarts(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
I don't notice my springs in flight. The aerodynamic loads on the
control surfaces pretty much masks the spring tension. The springs just
aren't that strong.
Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Finn Lassen" <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
>To: "ax; PROMO"
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Navaid servo for sale?
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Jerry Springer wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>Finn Lassen wrote:
>>>
>>>
><<<>>>
>
>
>>>Have you tried the spring setup? It does work very well. I believe that
>>>most people that are changing to TruTrak
>>>are keeping the servos and just replacing the gyros.
>>>
>>>Jerry
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Jerry,
>>I'm having a hard time believeing that springs strong enough to keep
>>wings leveled in turbulence will not be noticable when doing aileron
>>rolls and such.
>>
>>Finn
>>
>>
>
>Finn,
>
>The spring system is unnoticable in flight. That said, it is a trim system
>and not a wing leveler.
>
>KB
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ACS MAP Hose |
My install manual says it's OK to mount the MAP sensor on the firewall
. . . it would seem simpler to run the wires along with all the others
rather than a hose through the firewall? I'm I missing something?
Thanks,
Bob
wrote:
>
> I used a bulkhead AN-to-hose barb fitting. I mounted the ACS MAP sensor inside
the cockpit. I'll run the hose coming off the engine to the bulkhead fitting
placed in the firewall, then come off of hose barb side (cockpit side) with
tubing which will connect to the ACS MAP sensor.
>
> Bob Brown
> RV7A - wiring
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Simulator Software for KLN90B ??? |
Just checking collective knowledge for help. Is there a simulator for the
KLN90B that can be downloaded and used at home to learn the system? It
looks like Shorty's might have something for $5 but wonder if it's even
worth the trouble?
Thanks Bill S
7a Arkansas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Empennage - HS-405 edge distance |
Alan
I ran into this problem on my 8A as well. I asked my local RV guru what
to do. He suggested I make what are called "scab flanges" for the HS-405s.
I simply made new forward flanges out of some scrap 2024-T3 (same thickness
as the rib). Cut the original forward flanges off, and locate and rivet the
scab flanges on. Locate them to obtain proper edge distance as needed. I'll
send you a few photos of this "off list".
Charlie Kuss
>
>
>All,
>
>I'm working on the RV-8 empennage. Reference drawing 3, you can see where
>the HS-702, HS-405, and HS-801PP all overlap.
>
>After drilling the skin to the skeleton and then disassembling, I notice
>that the hole that goes through those three items does not meet minimum
>edge distance on the HS-405 towards the front edge of the flange (both top
>and bottom). This hole is the one that is in the seamed area of the
>HS-405.
>
>The holes in HS-702 are down the centerline of the flange, so I'm not sure
>where the alignment problem is.
>
>If I were to rebend the front and rear flanges of HS-405 slightly to shift
>the web of HS-405 forward, then I start getting into the edge distance on
>the top and bottom flanges at the rear end instead of the front.
>
>Any thoughts on what's going on here? Has anyone else seen this, and if
>so, how did you correct it?
>
>--
>Alan Reichert
>RV-8 N927AR (reserved)
>Building Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>Jerry Springer wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>Finn Lassen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I've been told that a number of people are changing from Navaid to
>>>TruTrak and thus have Navaid servos for sale.
>>>
>>>I'm interested in aquiring a servo (only) cheap ($200 or less).
>>>
>>>A $75 1/3 scale RC servo was suggested, but apparently does not have a
>>>clutch.
>>>
>>>Any other souces for a cheap servo? (For a home-brewed wing-leveller. I
>>>prefer not having springs hindering stick movement.)
>>>
>>>Finn
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Have you tried the spring setup? It does work very well. I believe that
>>most people that are changing to TruTrak
>>are keeping the servos and just replacing the gyros.
>>
>>Jerry
>>
>>
>>
>Jerry,
>I'm having a hard time believeing that springs strong enough to keep
>wings leveled in turbulence will not be noticable when doing aileron
>rolls and such.
>
>Finn
>
Hi Finn,
I flew my 1st -4 both with & without Van's spring kit. On the ground the
springs will move the stick when you move the trim control. In the air,
I could never tell the difference. My only complaint with Van's system
was that the springs weren't strong enough to completely counter roll
from fuel imbalance.
But.. I doubt you could use springs in an autopilot because it would be
chasing itself constantly in turbulence. Kind of 'auto-PIO'.
I once owned a Thorp T-18 with roll trim/autopilot using a very small
r/c servo driving a tab on the trailing edge of one aileron. There is
obviously an added risk of flutter if you do this but it was never a
problem on the Thorp.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)speedyquick.net> |
Actually, I was concerned about this as well, but the spring system is *not*
noticeable in flight for a very simple (once you see it in action) reason.
There are two opposing springs, under tension that hold the stick in place.
So the tension in one spring cancels out the tension of the other. It
really does work very well.
Ed
>
> > >Have you tried the spring setup? It does work very well. I believe that
> > >most people that are changing to TruTrak
> > >are keeping the servos and just replacing the gyros.
> > >
> > >Jerry
> > >
> > Jerry,
> > I'm having a hard time believeing that springs strong enough to keep
> > wings leveled in turbulence will not be noticable when doing aileron
> > rolls and such.
> >
> > Finn
--
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Lost power on takeoff again |
I replaced the carb with OH unit, and this morn had the same failure, lost power
4-5 sec into takeoff run. pulled the mixture control to about where it is at
cruise and it started running again. I ran up and did mag checks couple times
with mix at norm and it was ok. I had made two flights after carb change before
this with no problem. One common thing between this and when it happened before
I swapped carb, is it was much warmer than usual both times, and it was following
a long taxie both times as well. Any Ideas? (cut short a very nice morn
for flying) charlie heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob" <rpgross(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | NavAid Auto pilot servo and head for sale |
Used 2 year old NavAid system includes servo, head and internal smart
coupler to track your GPS signal. 120 hours since new, will demo in Jupiter,
FL. New $1350, asking $900. Mint condition.
Warmest Regards,
Bob Gross
For the latest F1 Rocket/Synthetic Vision progress, click here...
www.F1-RocketBoy.com <http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/>
-----Disclaimer---------
The contents of this E-mail (including contents of enclosure/(s) or
attachment/(s) if any are privileged & confidential material of Innovative
Aviation Systems Inc. or RocketBoy Aircraft Products Inc. and should not be
disclosed to, used by, or copied in any manner by anyone other than intended
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enclosure/(s) or attachment/(s) if any are those of the individual sender.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost power on takeoff again |
Received-SPF: none
It sounds like it is running too rich, have you confirmed that you only a
slight rpm increase before it shuts down when you pull your mixture?
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
150+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Lost power on takeoff again
>
> I replaced the carb with OH unit, and this morn had the same failure, lost
> power 4-5 sec into takeoff run. pulled the mixture control to about where
> it is at cruise and it started running again. I ran up and did mag checks
> couple times with mix at norm and it was ok. I had made two flights after
> carb change before this with no problem. One common thing between this and
> when it happened before I swapped carb, is it was much warmer than usual
> both times, and it was following a long taxie both times as well. Any
> Ideas? (cut short a very nice morn for flying) charlie heathco
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost power on takeoff again |
Charles Heathco wrote:
>
>I replaced the carb with OH unit, and this morn had the same failure, lost power
4-5 sec into takeoff run. pulled the mixture control to about where it is at
cruise and it started running again. I ran up and did mag checks couple times
with mix at norm and it was ok. I had made two flights after carb change before
this with no problem. One common thing between this and when it happened before
I swapped carb, is it was much warmer than usual both times, and it was
following a long taxie both times as well. Any Ideas? (cut short a very nice morn
for flying) charlie heathco
>
>
>
>
Sounds like Vapor lock, check heat sources around your fuel lines and
fuel pump.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | AFM Supplement for GPS IFR Operations / Limitation |
STC = Supplemental Type Certificate. Experiments don't have a Type
Certificate, so how can you get an STC, and why would you need one?
Kevin Horton
>
>It may seem somewhat wierd considering you don't need to have an AFM but if
>you have an IFR GPS and are using it for IFR then the supplement must be
>carried on board the aircraft during IFR ops. that is because it is part of
>the STC and is approved.
>
>Mike Robertson
>
>>From: "Richard V. Reynolds" <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: RV-List: AFM Supplement for GPS IFR Operations / Limitation
>>Date: Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:12:54 -0500
>>
>>
>>Reference AIM 1-1-19, d. General Requirements
>>
>>For experimental aircraft operating with an IFR GPS, is a FAA Approved
>>Aircraft Flight Manual Supplement for the GPS required for "legal"
>>operation?
>>
>>The Aircraft Flight Manual (AFM) is the new name for the old Pilot
>>Operating Handbook (POH).
>>
>>The AFM supplement for the GPS lists operational limitation of the IFR
>>GPS.
>>
>>Inquiring minds want to know.
>>
>>Richard Reynolds
> >Norfolk, VA, RV-6A, about to fly IFR
> >
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Hi Bill,
Just got back from week end with Tracy and Laura Crook - great as always.
Yes, I found some code for an "Inverted Pendulum" that looks like it will
provide a basis for the PID code. They do some neat tricks with clock
frequency and sampling rates to make the math (shifts) much quicker.
Yes, the 1/3 scale model servos produce torque equal and greater than that
shown in the autopilot specs on servos - so no problem there. However, I
have not been able to find one with any type of clutch which as you indicate
is desirable.
My initial thoughts on that aspect of the problem is to have the servo push
a rod that goes through a hole in a tab attached to aileron bell crank. The
rod would have springs on both sides of the tab (conceptually similar to
Van's elCheapo spring trim system which I use in my RV-6A). However, there
are some problems with that concept, so don't know if that would work, but
might be worth a try. On the otherhand adapting a magnetic clutch might be
a more elegant way to go.
Thanks for the suggestions
Ed
Ed Anderson
RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dube" <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Roll your own auto pilot? Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
> >
> >I am currently playing with a design for a heading hold -wing leveler. I
> >have the electronic components mocked up in a electronic simulation
(PSPICE)
> >at this point. I am still debating whether to go with the analog
approach
> >or the digital using a PIC Microchip. The digital clearly offers more
move
> >for growth and change but the complexity of the algorithms are a bit
much.
> >The analog looks to be more straight forward - but with limited growth
> >capability.
>
> You can easily find PID code for the PIC or nearly any other
> embedded controller. Use that stock code as the core for your system and
> you will save yourself a ton of programming and de-bugging work.
>
>
> > I am looking to make a simply (inexpensive) system that will start out
as
> >an manual electric aileron trim and progress from there. I believe that
a
> >Cascading set of simple OpAmp PID controllers looks to be the best bet
(and
> >least expensive) for smooth operation. This is basically two control
> >loops - the outside loop would be comparing a heading signal to your set
> >heading the difference would generally a roll angle requirement this
would
> >feed to the inside loop where the current roll angle would be compared to
> >the command roll and if a difference exists the inner list would generate
a
> >roll rate command which would end up driving the servo.
>
> That makes sense. Feed in the rate sensor information to the
inner
> loop to keep it stable and reduce the sensitivity to noise on the heading
> input. Easier to do digitally, by the way.
>
> > A small difference
> >in heading would generate a small roll rate and a larger difference a
faster
> >roll rate (with limits of course - probably 15 deg max). Obviously quite
a
> >bit more complex than this brief description - but that's the general
idea.
> >The Unit is intended for VFR ONLY and will probably use a 1/3 scale model
> >aircraft servo.
>
> Would that have the torque needed? Also, how do you plan to
clutch
> the servo to allow manual over-ride?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
Thanks Charlie!
This sounds like a very sensible solution. Do you know if, in case of
power loss to the servo, will an R/C servo exert enough hold
(resistance) on the trim tab to prevent tab induced flutter. I know next
to nothing about R/C servos but imagine that if it's geared it should
resist movement.
Could also be an incentive for me to rebuild my crooked left aileron.
(Are you listening Ed Anderson?)
Finn
Charlie England wrote:
>I once owned a Thorp T-18 with roll trim/autopilot using a very small
>r/c servo driving a tab on the trailing edge of one aileron. There is
>obviously an added risk of flutter if you do this but it was never a
>problem on the Thorp.
>
>Charlie
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
Yes, Listening Finn.
Since I do not intend to control roll with an aileron trim tab, flutter is
not one of my concerns. I intend to use an 1/3 RC servo to push a rod which
in turn pushes a tab on the aileron bell crank - so no additional mass out
on the control surface. So perhaps other problems, but don't expect flutter
to be one of them.
Great seeing you again at the Flyin and Tracy's Finn.
Hope you get back from your trip to make it to Sun & Fun.
Made it back to Charlotte from Tracy's in 2 hours 45 minutes, so even had a
small tail wind component to help this day.
Ed
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Navaid servo for sale?
>
> Thanks Charlie!
>
> This sounds like a very sensible solution. Do you know if, in case of
> power loss to the servo, will an R/C servo exert enough hold
> (resistance) on the trim tab to prevent tab induced flutter. I know next
> to nothing about R/C servos but imagine that if it's geared it should
> resist movement.
>
> Could also be an incentive for me to rebuild my crooked left aileron.
>
> (Are you listening Ed Anderson?)
>
> Finn
>
> Charlie England wrote:
>
> >I once owned a Thorp T-18 with roll trim/autopilot using a very small
> >r/c servo driving a tab on the trailing edge of one aileron. There is
> >obviously an added risk of flutter if you do this but it was never a
> >problem on the Thorp.
> >
> >Charlie
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <mmckenna(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost power on takeoff again |
Charlie,
Check your primer system. If you have not already ruled this out. Leaking primer
pump or valve can cause the richer than normal condition.
Mike Mckenna
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Heathco
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Lost power on takeoff again
>
>
> I replaced the carb with OH unit, and this morn had the same failure,
> lost power 4-5 sec into takeoff run. pulled the mixture control to about
> where it is at cruise and it started running again. I ran up and did mag
> checks couple times with mix at norm and it was ok. I had made two
> flights after carb change before this with no problem. One common thing
> between this and when it happened before I swapped carb, is it was much
> warmer than usual both times, and it was following a long taxie both
> times as well. Any Ideas? (cut short a very nice morn for flying)
> charlie heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Lost power on takeoff again |
what about vapor lock
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Starter Switch Problem |
Listers,
Anybody have a diagram for the OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH-START key switch. I have
power to the terminal marked "Bat" and no power at the terminal marked "S"
when I turn it to the start position. I have only a hand drawn diagram that
I used. Wondering if it is right.
Shoot, I was gonna fire this thing, what a let down.
Thanks
Tim Bryan
-6 N616TB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lost power on takeoff again |
Hi Charlie,
Are you running 100LL or mogas?
Just a thought...
Good luck with the troubleshooting!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Switch Problem |
Tim,
Sounds like you have it wired right. You probably have a bad switch or
something else is miswired.
Dave B
Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>Anybody have a diagram for the OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH-START key switch. I have
>power to the terminal marked "Bat" and no power at the terminal marked "S"
>when I turn it to the start position. I have only a hand drawn diagram that
>I used. Wondering if it is right.
>
>Shoot, I was gonna fire this thing, what a let down.
>
>Thanks
>Tim Bryan
>-6 N616TB
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Confused about IO-360 180hp engines. |
Kevin & Kevin,
I was just browsing EBay. I came across an IO-360-B1E sump for sale. It
is a horizontal, rear mount unit, so it definitely WON'T work on an RV.
Charlie Kuss
>snipped
> >Is the M1B the only 180hp engine that will fit into the RV-8 without
> >modifying the plane? Are people buying non M1B engines and making changes
> >to the engines so they meet M1B specs? If so what engines can be bought
> >and converted to the M1B configuration and what engines just cant be
> >converted at all?
> >
> >Argh my head hurts!! Lol your input would be appreciated.
>
>The IO-360-M1A and M1B are the only 180 hp IO-360s that have the fuel
>injection servo mounted on the front of the oil sump. That allows it
>to be used with Van's "horizontal induction" air box, which means you
>get the cowling with the smooth front (i.e. there is no protruding
>inlet for engine induction air intake).
>
>Other 180 hp IO-360s will work, but they have the fuel injection
>servo mounted on the bottom of the oil sump, similar to most
>carbureted versions. You need the cowling with the air induction
>inlet sticking out the bottom. Van really designed this setup around
>a carbureted engine, so there might be a bit of air box rework to
>make it fit - other builders should be able to give a better story
>here.
>
>Looking at the FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet (TCDS) for the IO-360
>engines, it looks like the following 180 hp IO-360s might work:
>
>IO-360-B1B
>IO-360-B1C
>IO-360-B1D
>IO-360-B1F
>IO-360-B1F6
>IO-360-B2E (fixed pitch prop only)
>IO-360-B2F (fixed pitch prop only)
>IO-360-B2F6 (fixed pitch prop only)
>IO-360-B4A
>IO-360-E1A (type 2 Dynafocal mount)
>IO-360-F1A (modifications to allow turbo-charging - find out what
>the mods are before buying this one.).
>IO-360-M1A (front mounted fuel injection and front mounted prop governor).
>IO-360-M1B (front mounted fuel injection and rear mounted prop governor).
>
>Other than the IO-360-M1A and M1B, all the above engines would have
>bottom mounted fuel injection servos.
>
>The following models look like they might cause grief:
>IO-360-B1A - it has Simmonds fuel injection, which is uncommon. I
>suspect you might have additional problems making it fit the airbox,
>etc. But I'm guessing here.
>
>IO-360-B1E - has different oil sump and induction manifolding. This
>might interfere with the engine mount. Further investigation needed.
>
>IO-360-B1G6 - has bed type engine mount. Not compatible with the
>engine mounts that Van sells.
>
>The above info is completely speculative, and is offered without any
>warrantee as to its accuracy. Use at your own risk.
>
>To view the TCDS, go to: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/tcds, then search
>for IO-360. Scroll past the Continental IO-360s to find a link to a
>Textron Lycoming IO-360 (there a gazillion links, one for each model
>of Lycoming IO-360, but they all point to the same TCDS). You'll
>have to click on one more link, then you'll end up viewing the TCDS.
>
>There is a section starting on page 15 that attempts to explain the
>differences between the various models. The explanations can be a
>misleading though, e.g. it says the IO-360-B1A is "Similar to
>IO-360-A1A except has Simmonds Type 530 fuel injector. Does not have
>tuned induction". That is very misleading, as the IO-360-A1A is a
>200 hp, angle-valve engine, and the IO-360-B1A is a 180 hp
>parallel-valve engine. But if you stick with the 180 hp variants, I
>think the story on the differences between models is probably OK.
>
>You can also buy a carbureted O-360, and add Airflow Performance Fuel
>injection. This would be approximately equivalent to an IO-360-B1B.
>--
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "cgalley" <cgalley(at)qcbc.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Starter Switch Problem |
Did you try turning completely to the right and then push in?
The wiring diagram is in the Aircraft Spruce Catalog.
If you go to the starter solenoid. Does the starter engage if you apply
power to the starter terminal. If it has two small terminals, sometimes the
2nd one has to grounded.
Cy Galley - Chair,
AirVenture Emergency Aircraft Repair
A Service Project of Chapter 75
EAA Safety Programs Editor - TC
EAA Sport Pilot
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com>
Subject: RV-List: Starter Switch Problem
>
>
> Listers,
> Anybody have a diagram for the OFF-LEFT-RIGHT-BOTH-START key switch. I
> have
> power to the terminal marked "Bat" and no power at the terminal marked "S"
> when I turn it to the start position. I have only a hand drawn diagram
> that
> I used. Wondering if it is right.
>
> Shoot, I was gonna fire this thing, what a let down.
>
> Thanks
> Tim Bryan
> -6 N616TB
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
After 4 years, I think the paint on my airplane has finally cured well enough that
it may be time for a wax job. Anyone got a recommendation for the perfect
wax? Inexpensive, easy to apply, and leaves a nice finish?
I'm hoping someone can recommend a good liquid wax. I simply don't have the time
or energy right now to use one of the paste waxes...
Thanks in advance,
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Lost power on takeoff again |
>
>
> I replaced the carb with OH unit, and this morn had the same
> failure, lost power 4-5 sec into takeoff run. pulled the
> mixture control to about where it is at cruise and it started
> running again. I ran up and did mag checks couple times with
> mix at norm and it was ok. I had made two flights after carb
> change before this with no problem. One common thing between
> this and when it happened before I swapped carb, is it was
> much warmer than usual both times, and it was following a
> long taxie both times as well. Any Ideas? (cut short a very
> nice morn for flying) charlie heathco
Charlie, a couple questions:
Describe the details of what "4-5 sec into the takeoff run" means. Is that
after full throttle? Or after beginning the throttle up? Normal
advancement to full throttle should take about 3 to 4 seconds. Have you
tested your boost pump for its flow output (how long to pump a quart, for
example)? At full throttle, your engine will burn something like a quart of
gas every minute, which is a pretty healthy flow. If you disconnect the
fuel line into the carb and put it into a container, the boost pump should
pump something above a quart per minute. If the boost pump can do this, it
wouldn't seem to be vapor lock. Vapor lock should plague one only when the
boost pump is off, unless the vapor lock is upstream of the boost pump.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A 584 hours
Maple Grove, MN
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~alexpeterson/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
I'm not concerned about any additional mass on the aileron - should be
easy to rebalance the aileron to compensate for the slight weight of the
servo, rod and piano hinge (pour a bit of lead into the water pipe). I'm
concerned about the trim tab "flapping" in the wind producing flutter.
I like the trim tab a lot because it eliminates need for servo clutch,
and because I already have two fixed trim tabs compensating for my
twisted wings, which I then could get rid of (the tabs, not the wings :).
Any idea of how long and deep into the aileron I need to make the tab? I
assume the the size of the elevator trim tab would be way too much.
Van's electric aileron trim tab is just a lenght of piano hinge in
extension to the trailing edge, but I imagine that may not be enough for
a wing leveler?
Finn
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
> Yes, Listening Finn.
>
>Since I do not intend to control roll with an aileron trim tab, flutter is
>not one of my concerns. I intend to use an 1/3 RC servo to push a rod which
>in turn pushes a tab on the aileron bell crank - so no additional mass out
>on the control surface. So perhaps other problems, but don't expect flutter
>to be one of them.
>
>Great seeing you again at the Flyin and Tracy's Finn.
>
>Hope you get back from your trip to make it to Sun & Fun.
>
>Made it back to Charlotte from Tracy's in 2 hours 45 minutes, so even had a
>small tail wind component to help this day.
>
>Ed
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Guys, this is a great discussion. Please keep it online so we can all benefit.
I have dreams of doing the same myself when I am finished my RV-6.
The stepper motor servo seems to be the most practical solution, saves building
a clutched servo. A
stepper can be driven from buffered outputs from a microcontroller. I have done
this myself for a
job many years ago but it didnt have the torque I had expected. Didn't get to the
bottom of that at
the time. I would have anticipated quite a lot of drag for these.
Also, the stepper motor could possibly be liberated from a dead printer.
Approximatly how big is the tru-track(?) stepper? Can anyone glean a little more
information.
Doug Gray
'6 Fuse, now off the jig.
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
> Hi Bill,
>
> Just got back from week end with Tracy and Laura Crook - great as always.
>
> Yes, I found some code for an "Inverted Pendulum" that looks like it will
> provide a basis for the PID code. They do some neat tricks with clock
> frequency and sampling rates to make the math (shifts) much quicker.
>
> Yes, the 1/3 scale model servos produce torque equal and greater than that
> shown in the autopilot specs on servos - so no problem there. However, I
> have not been able to find one with any type of clutch which as you indicate
> is desirable.
>
> My initial thoughts on that aspect of the problem is to have the servo push
> a rod that goes through a hole in a tab attached to aileron bell crank. The
> rod would have springs on both sides of the tab (conceptually similar to
> Van's elCheapo spring trim system which I use in my RV-6A). However, there
> are some problems with that concept, so don't know if that would work, but
> might be worth a try. On the otherhand adapting a magnetic clutch might be
> a more elegant way to go.
>
> Thanks for the suggestions
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill Dube" <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
> To:
> Subject: Re: Roll your own auto pilot? Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>I am currently playing with a design for a heading hold -wing leveler. I
>>>have the electronic components mocked up in a electronic simulation
>>
> (PSPICE)
>
>>>at this point. I am still debating whether to go with the analog
>>
> approach
>
>>>or the digital using a PIC Microchip. The digital clearly offers more
>>
> move
>
>>>for growth and change but the complexity of the algorithms are a bit
>>
> much.
>
>>>The analog looks to be more straight forward - but with limited growth
>>>capability.
>>
>> You can easily find PID code for the PIC or nearly any other
>>embedded controller. Use that stock code as the core for your system and
>>you will save yourself a ton of programming and de-bugging work.
>>
>>
>>
>>> I am looking to make a simply (inexpensive) system that will start out
>>
> as
>
>>>an manual electric aileron trim and progress from there. I believe that
>>
> a
>
>>>Cascading set of simple OpAmp PID controllers looks to be the best bet
>>
> (and
>
>>>least expensive) for smooth operation. This is basically two control
>>>loops - the outside loop would be comparing a heading signal to your set
>>>heading the difference would generally a roll angle requirement this
>>
> would
>
>>>feed to the inside loop where the current roll angle would be compared to
>>>the command roll and if a difference exists the inner list would generate
>>
> a
>
>>>roll rate command which would end up driving the servo.
>>
>> That makes sense. Feed in the rate sensor information to the
>
> inner
>
>>loop to keep it stable and reduce the sensitivity to noise on the heading
>>input. Easier to do digitally, by the way.
>>
>>
>>> A small difference
>>>in heading would generate a small roll rate and a larger difference a
>>
> faster
>
>>>roll rate (with limits of course - probably 15 deg max). Obviously quite
>>
> a
>
>>>bit more complex than this brief description - but that's the general
>>
> idea.
>
>>>The Unit is intended for VFR ONLY and will probably use a 1/3 scale model
>>>aircraft servo.
>>
>> Would that have the torque needed? Also, how do you plan to
>
> clutch
>
>>the servo to allow manual over-ride?
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the hints. A couple of hours of filing and they
fit together fine. There is a bit of a gap between the
forward part and the aft, and I've put a couple of strips
of fiberglass on the forward half to help it fit better.
It will probably need a couple more hours of sanding.
I also ordered the Sam James DVD on how to do this stuff.
I found the Ordorff cassettes helpful as well.
Best regards,
Mickey
Oldsfolks(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Mickey;
> I used a file to get a better fit between the two halves of the wheel
> pants. A square or flat file will do.
> I also used Poly-Fibre "Smooth Prime" to prime them . It goes on with a
> small roller and you can push down to squish it into the pinholes in that #$%
> &*
> fibre glas. A/C S has it in the glas & resins section of their catalog.
> Mix small amounts since it goes a long way. It washes up with water and sands
> into lots of snow on the floor. A couple of coats usually takes care of
> the pinholes.
>
> Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
> A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
> Charleston,Arkansas
> Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 Wiring
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Hi Doug,
I am not that familiar with the details of stepper motors, although I do
understand the concept. My question is what aspect of the stepper motor
makes it better suited for this application? Does a stepper motor not
offer "resistance" as does a servo without a clutch may do? Does a stepper
motor provide "position" feed back? or does it already "know" (based on the
command sent) what position it will be activated to reach.
Ed Anderson
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Gray" <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Roll your own auto pilot? Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
>
> Guys, this is a great discussion. Please keep it online so we can all
benefit.
>
> I have dreams of doing the same myself when I am finished my RV-6.
>
> The stepper motor servo seems to be the most practical solution, saves
building a clutched servo. A
> stepper can be driven from buffered outputs from a microcontroller. I have
done this myself for a
> job many years ago but it didnt have the torque I had expected. Didn't get
to the bottom of that at
> the time. I would have anticipated quite a lot of drag for these.
>
> Also, the stepper motor could possibly be liberated from a dead printer.
>
> Approximatly how big is the tru-track(?) stepper? Can anyone glean a
little more information.
>
> Doug Gray
> '6 Fuse, now off the jig.
>
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
> >
> > Hi Bill,
> >
> > Just got back from week end with Tracy and Laura Crook - great as
always.
> >
> > Yes, I found some code for an "Inverted Pendulum" that looks like it
will
> > provide a basis for the PID code. They do some neat tricks with clock
> > frequency and sampling rates to make the math (shifts) much quicker.
> >
> > Yes, the 1/3 scale model servos produce torque equal and greater than
that
> > shown in the autopilot specs on servos - so no problem there. However,
I
> > have not been able to find one with any type of clutch which as you
indicate
> > is desirable.
> >
> > My initial thoughts on that aspect of the problem is to have the servo
push
> > a rod that goes through a hole in a tab attached to aileron bell crank.
The
> > rod would have springs on both sides of the tab (conceptually similar to
> > Van's elCheapo spring trim system which I use in my RV-6A). However,
there
> > are some problems with that concept, so don't know if that would work,
but
> > might be worth a try. On the otherhand adapting a magnetic clutch might
be
> > a more elegant way to go.
> >
> > Thanks for the suggestions
> >
> > Ed
> >
> > Ed Anderson
> > RV-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> > Matthews, NC
> > eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Bill Dube" <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov>
> > To:
> > Subject: Re: Roll your own auto pilot? Re: RV-List: Auto Pilots
> >
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>I am currently playing with a design for a heading hold -wing leveler.
I
> >>>have the electronic components mocked up in a electronic simulation
> >>
> > (PSPICE)
> >
> >>>at this point. I am still debating whether to go with the analog
> >>
> > approach
> >
> >>>or the digital using a PIC Microchip. The digital clearly offers more
> >>
> > move
> >
> >>>for growth and change but the complexity of the algorithms are a bit
> >>
> > much.
> >
> >>>The analog looks to be more straight forward - but with limited growth
> >>>capability.
> >>
> >> You can easily find PID code for the PIC or nearly any other
> >>embedded controller. Use that stock code as the core for your system and
> >>you will save yourself a ton of programming and de-bugging work.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>> I am looking to make a simply (inexpensive) system that will start
out
> >>
> > as
> >
> >>>an manual electric aileron trim and progress from there. I believe
that
> >>
> > a
> >
> >>>Cascading set of simple OpAmp PID controllers looks to be the best bet
> >>
> > (and
> >
> >>>least expensive) for smooth operation. This is basically two control
> >>>loops - the outside loop would be comparing a heading signal to your
set
> >>>heading the difference would generally a roll angle requirement this
> >>
> > would
> >
> >>>feed to the inside loop where the current roll angle would be compared
to
> >>>the command roll and if a difference exists the inner list would
generate
> >>
> > a
> >
> >>>roll rate command which would end up driving the servo.
> >>
> >> That makes sense. Feed in the rate sensor information to the
> >
> > inner
> >
> >>loop to keep it stable and reduce the sensitivity to noise on the
heading
> >>input. Easier to do digitally, by the way.
> >>
> >>
> >>> A small difference
> >>>in heading would generate a small roll rate and a larger difference a
> >>
> > faster
> >
> >>>roll rate (with limits of course - probably 15 deg max). Obviously
quite
> >>
> > a
> >
> >>>bit more complex than this brief description - but that's the general
> >>
> > idea.
> >
> >>>The Unit is intended for VFR ONLY and will probably use a 1/3 scale
model
> >>>aircraft servo.
> >>
> >> Would that have the torque needed? Also, how do you plan to
> >
> > clutch
> >
> >>the servo to allow manual over-ride?
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cheap Navaid servo for sale? |
Finn,
I believe that Van sells an electric aileron trim kit - undoubtedly the size
tab it calls for would be a starting point. Someone on the list may have
the diagram which shows the cut-out size.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Finn Lassen" <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cheap Navaid servo for sale?
>
> I'm not concerned about any additional mass on the aileron - should be
> easy to rebalance the aileron to compensate for the slight weight of the
> servo, rod and piano hinge (pour a bit of lead into the water pipe). I'm
> concerned about the trim tab "flapping" in the wind producing flutter.
>
> I like the trim tab a lot because it eliminates need for servo clutch,
> and because I already have two fixed trim tabs compensating for my
> twisted wings, which I then could get rid of (the tabs, not the wings :).
>
> Any idea of how long and deep into the aileron I need to make the tab? I
> assume the the size of the elevator trim tab would be way too much.
> Van's electric aileron trim tab is just a lenght of piano hinge in
> extension to the trailing edge, but I imagine that may not be enough for
> a wing leveler?
>
> Finn
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes, Listening Finn.
> >
> >Since I do not intend to control roll with an aileron trim tab, flutter
is
March 08, 2005 - March 14, 2005
RV-Archive.digest.vol-qp
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