RV-Archive.digest.vol-rf
August 22, 2005 - September 03, 2005
Have fun!
Sam Buchanan
http://thervjournal.com
==========================================
sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> I flew my new Trio EZ pilot A/P with the new GPS connected for the
> first time yesterday, and was that ever sweet! Kinda spooky to see
> invisible hands flying your airplane for the first time in 500 hours.
> I'm easily impressed, but having two brand new boxes in the cockpit
> with me on a test flight, I couldn't help but be.
>
> I'm still exploring the capabilities of the Trio, but it tracks a
> flight plan, does the emergency 180, and holds a course well, and is
> a functional wing-leveler even without GPS input. Installation was
> very straightforward and uncomplicated. The Garmin 296 manual took
> all day Saturday and half the day Sunday to pore over, but I think I
> am now capable of putting that unit through most of its paces. The
> UPS man brought me a data cable last week for it, and a Panel Dock
> form AirGizmos today, so by tonight it should be in my panel like it
> belongs there, instead of dangling from a bunch of wires like
> yesterday ;-)
>
> I had the EZ-Pilot follow a 90-degree turn at a flight plan waypoint,
> and the overshoot to the outside of the turn was about 0.8nm at 150
> mph, with a secondary overshoot to the inside of 0.12nm before it
> locked onto the new heading outbound. This is no doubt due to the 15
> degree bank limiting default setting, so I will play with the gain a
> bit on subsequent flights. Thanks, Sam B., for your earlier
> suggestion of gain values. I plan to look them up and use them as
> starting points.
>
> -Stormy
>
> very happy Garmin and Trio customer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
Stormy,
Does your stick move left/right at a 1 Hertz rate? Both
Rick G and I have that situation. Mine does not have the
GPS input yet so that may be a factor but Rick does have
GPS input.
I did chat with Trio about it and they have a possible solution
so I am not overly concerned yet and until I see if it still does
that once I provide a GPS input.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
Stay tuned for an exciting announcement. Hopefully within a week.
Tee hee
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net> |
| Subject: | SL30 Nav Antenna |
Here is the same question I asked of Bob Archer and his reply.
I still want to try it and will probably talk to Bob directly when I am
ready to start on my tip tanks.
Bob's reply followed by my question to him:
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Archer [mailto:bobsantennas(at)earthlink.net]
Subject: Re: Nav Antenna question
----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen Fulmer" <afulmer(at)charter.net>
Subject: Nav Antenna question
Hi Allen;
There are a couple of problems on doing the type installation you propose.
If you completly embed the antenna in fiber glass the velocity factor of the
fiber glass would make the antenna look much larger ( the fiber glass slows
down the passage of RF by a factor of about 30% ) so it would be detuned but
the amount could only be determined by testing after the installation. If
the feed area were to be embeded I don't know what the effect would be on
the series capacitor either. That is a very sensitive area. If you want to
try it I would suggest measureing on the centerline of the embeded portion
of the antenna strips and reduce the length by 30%. It might work ok but I
sure wouldn't want to ensure it.
Yes the Sa-001 will work with a two set coupler, Glide slope will also.
Also yes on using a single Com antenna with the Sa-010 T/R Switch. On
installing the switch you do have to connect the micophone key lines to the
switch. I have sold quite a few of these switches to Lancair IV builders
that report they get reception of about 200 miles at high altitudes.
I hope your questions got satisfactorily answered.
Regards
Bob
> Hello Bob,
>
> Allen Fulmer here again with another question.
>
> The SA-001 Wing tip VOR antenna. Being passive, do you see any problems
if
> I mount it in the RV7 wing tip and then proceed to convert the wing tip
into
> a fuel tank? The antenna would be sandwiched between fiberglass on the
> bottom of the wing tip with 12 gallons of fuel above it. I don't see any
> problem with connections as there will be a fiberglass baffle about an
inch
> in from the outboard wing rib and the antenna can still be mounted between
> the aluminum skin and wing tip to for grounding purposes. What do you
> think?
>
> Also, will one SA-001 feed two NAV radios? Is it as simple as installing
a
> "splitter" in the coax near the radios?
>
> I am thinking a bent whip mounted on the belly would be best for COM.
Does
> one antenna normally (and satisfactorily) feed two transceivers using one
of
> your T/R switches?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Allen Fulmer
> RV7 Wings (QB Fuse on hand)
> N808AF reserved
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Terry Watson
Subject: RE: RV-List: SL30 Nav Antenna
Stein, others
I have tip tanks, or the wingtips modified to have the capacity for about 9
gallons of gas in each of them, built by Jon Johanson and sold by Van's. I
have always assumed that this means than I don't have any space for wingtip
antennas but since I have never actually seen an installation, maybe there
is a way. Does anyone know?
Thanks,
Terry
RV-8A #80729 finishing
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
On 22 Aug 2005, at 11:02, Crosley, Rich wrote:
>
>
> Suppose, just suppose that you're in your RV-8 on speed, full flaps
> turning
> base to 1/2 mile final and the engine quits. You are pretty sure
> that you
> have the runway made but you want to extend your glide as much as
> possible.
> Do you leave the flaps where they are or do you raise them and if
> so how
> much? Thought about this yesterday as I turned final.
>
As you know, the glide ratio (i.e the distance travelled for a given
amount of altitude) will be better with the flaps up than with them
extended, assuming that you are at the best glide speed for each
configuration. So, at the moment that the engine failed, if you were
at the best glide speed for flaps up, or faster, there is an
advantage to raising the flaps, no matter what your altitude is.
But, if you are flying slower than the best glide speed for flaps up,
you are going to need to push over to accelerate, and you will lose
some altitude to do this. At the moment where you attain the best
glide speed for flaps up, you will probably be below the flight path
you would have followed if you had just left the flaps down. But the
improved glide performance with flaps up will soon let you get above
the flight path you would have followed if you had left the flaps down.
If you were flying below the stall speed for flaps up when the engine
failed (which is a lot slower than you should be flying on final),
you could still raise the flaps, but you would have to push as you
did so, to keep the angle of attack less than the stalling angle of
attack. This implies that you will be at much less than one g load
factor, and you will be falling from the sky like the proverbial
brick until you get some speed back and can then allow the g to
increase. This would be a bad situation if you were at low altitude,
as you might not get enough speed to allow you to pull g and break
the rate of descent before you hit the ground.
In general, for any given speed, there is an altitude at which it
doesn't matter whether you retract the flaps or leave them down - you
will hit the ground at the same point. If you are above this
altitude, it makes sense to retract the flaps. If you are below this
altitude it makes sense to leave them down.
All of the above assumes you know the speed for best glide ratio with
the flaps up and down, and that you know the stall speed for flaps up
and down. You should have determined all those numbers during your
flight test program. Then you should simulate engine failures
starting from various conditions. Put the flaps down, stabilize at
airspeed X using whatever rpm you normally use on base leg. Then
pull the throttle to idle, push over, retract the flaps, and note how
much altitude you lose before you get to best glide speed for flaps
up. Add a bit of a buffer to this altitude, and it will give you a
reasonable minimum altitude at which you should consider retracting
the flaps. Repeat this at different airspeeds, and note how the
altitude required to achieve best glide speed varies with the speed
at engine failure.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net> |
I have an O-320 with dual Electroair Ignition Systems and Airflow Fuel
injection. What drop should I expect with one system off? My Operator's
Manual for the O-320 with fixed pitch prop call for a RPM of 2000/2100 max
drop of 175 RPM and not more than 50 RPM between magnetos on the before T/O
Check list. What are others getting?
Best regards,
Bruce Bell
Lubbock, Texas
RV4 N23BB #2888
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
I have one mag and one Electroair. I do most of my runups at 1500 RPM.
Higher than that, and holding the brakes gets pretty hard. Anyway, my drops
are both under 50 from my runup RPM.
I did have a brain glitch one day and forgot to turn the mag back on before
beginning my takeoff run. The aircraft accelerated to flying speed in what
seemed to be a normal distance and time, but post-liftoff acceleration was
very weak, and the engine RPM was at least a couple of hundred RPM down. I
almost aborted the takeoff, but I found the problem after a quick scan.
Everything was fine after I turned the Mag back on...
Bottom line, the higher your power setting, the more drop you're likely to
see with one system off.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Bell" <brucebell74(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: RV-List: RPM drop!
>
> I have an O-320 with dual Electroair Ignition Systems and Airflow Fuel
> injection. What drop should I expect with one system off? My Operator's
> Manual for the O-320 with fixed pitch prop call for a RPM of 2000/2100 max
> drop of 175 RPM and not more than 50 RPM between magnetos on the before
> T/O
> Check list. What are others getting?
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 N23BB #2888
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
version=3.0.2
Very interestion question, I have wondered about that myself. On the one
hand flaps increase lift, but on the other they slow you down, I think I
would vote for going to 1st notch. I plan to experiment next flight. charlie
heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM>
Subject: RV-List: Extending a glide
Suppose, just suppose that you're in your RV-8 on speed, full flaps turning
base to 1/2 mile final and the engine quits. You are pretty sure that you
have the runway made but you want to extend your glide as much as possible.
Do you leave the flaps where they are or do you raise them and if so how
much? Thought about this yesterday as I turned final.
Rich Crosley
RV-8 N948RC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
version=3.0.2
I am just a few days ahead of you, flew mine first time last week, and Sat I
set up a 5 point flight plan and it flew it like a charm, exept for the turn
at first waypoint which was about 120 deg, overshot considerably. I need to
also experiment with gain. As wing leveler, I can do much better, it tends
to keep the wings rocking a lot, I need to talk with Jerry about what to
addjust. Charlie Heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Trio update
I flew my new Trio EZ pilot A/P with the new GPS connected for the first
time yesterday, and was that ever sweet! Kinda spooky to see invisible
hands flying your airplane for the first time in 500 hours. I'm easily
impressed, but having two brand new boxes in the cockpit with me on a test
flight, I couldn't help but be.
I'm still exploring the capabilities of the Trio, but it tracks a flight
plan, does the emergency 180, and holds a course well, and is a functional
wing-leveler even without GPS input. Installation was very straightforward
and uncomplicated. The Garmin 296 manual took all day Saturday and half the
day Sunday to pore over, but I think I am now capable of putting that unit
through most of its paces. The UPS man brought me a data cable last week
for it, and a Panel Dock form AirGizmos today, so by tonight it should be in
my panel like it belongs there, instead of dangling from a bunch of wires
like yesterday ;-)
I had the EZ-Pilot follow a 90-degree turn at a flight plan waypoint, and
the overshoot to the outside of the turn was about 0.8nm at 150 mph, with a
secondary overshoot to the inside of 0.12nm before it locked onto the new
heading outbound. This is no doubt due to the 15 degree bank limiting
default setting, so I will play with the gain a bit on subsequent flights.
Thanks, Sam B., for your earlier suggestion of gain values. I plan to look
them up and use them as starting points.
-Stormy
very happy Garmin and Trio customer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
Crosley, Rich wrote:
>
>Suppose, just suppose that you're in your RV-8 on speed, full flaps turning
>base to 1/2 mile final and the engine quits. You are pretty sure that you
>have the runway made but you want to extend your glide as much as possible.
>Do you leave the flaps where they are or do you raise them and if so how
>much? Thought about this yesterday as I turned final.
>
>
>Rich Crosley
>RV-8 N948RC
>
My instructor insisted that I have the engine at idle when abeam the
numbers & that I fly the landing pattern so that I'd have the runway
made at any time if the engine quit. The technique continued to work
fine when I went from the Luscombe to a Thorp T-18, then a Swift with
160hp & c/s prop, then the same Swift with 200hp & c/s. It works fine
with f/p RV's & I'm pretty sure it would have worked fine on the one c/s
example I've flown if the owner had been comfortable with the idea.
True confession time:
I had the engine quit once while on long final dragging along with power
following another a/c at a flyin years ago. I was probably not much more
than 1/2 mile out when it quit. I might have frozen up a bit, but I only
had time to tell myself to 'fly the plane', set best glide speed &
notice that the stuff under us looked benign enough to just ruin the
plane & not us. By that time a gear leg had hit one tall stalk of
something & we were stopped on the runway. Switched tanks, hit the boost
pump & starter & the plane ran fine with fuel being delivered. (Problem
started with a controller telling me to do something I considered unsafe
about a half hour earlier just as I was reaching for the fuel selector
to change tanks. It continued when I had to follow others around a
monster sized pattern. I let the distraction & stress of flying in an
uncomfortable fashion distract me from switching tanks.)
At 80-90 mph, 1/2 mile would be maybe 20 seconds. I suppose that with
cooler fluid in your veins you'd be able to evaluate whether the
increased sink rate when the flaps come up is less of a problem than the
drag, but I was proud that I could focus enough to 'fly the plane' &
look for the least lethal path into the weeds.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
>
>
> I have an O-320 with dual Electroair Ignition Systems and
> Airflow Fuel injection. What drop should I expect with one
> system off? My Operator's Manual for the O-320 with fixed
> pitch prop call for a RPM of 2000/2100 max drop of 175 RPM
> and not more than 50 RPM between magnetos on the before T/O
> Check list. What are others getting?
> Best regards,
> Bruce Bell
> Lubbock, Texas
> RV4 N23BB #2888
I suspect that the engine and/or airframe manufacturers set an rpm drop spec
because they don't know how to communicate how to "listen" to the engine.
There have been several mag checks I've done in 650 hours which have shown a
cylinder to be misfiring. I couldn't tell you what a "normal" rpm drop in
my plane is, but I know instantly when a plug is fouled and misfiring. In a
four cylinder, this is very obvious once one has some time in the plane. In
most cases, a fouled plug can be burned off by running the rpm up to max
braking ability and leaning the engine way back until some rpm drop occurs.
Don't forget to keep your eyes outside during this!
Anyway, perhaps others more knowledgable will chime in, but, to address your
question, how the engine is running is more important than the exact rpm
drops. Once you have experience with what is "normal" for your engine/prop,
you will know this. Also, an egt gauge is a very helpful tool in diagnosing
a misfiring cylinder. Interestingly, when I've had a fouled plug, and am
running only on one mag, the egt doesn't go to zero, but something around
700F instead. I suspect it is firing every other time?
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 654 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
Kevin wrote a excellent description of the technical aspects of engine out
glidepath. I'll take a different approach.
Certainly I can not, and few other pilots that I know, except my Test Pilot
Hero ;-) Kevin Horton, can call up that info and process it, while turning
directly to the airport property and trying to figure out why the engine
quit and whether to pull the prop back, switch tanks, maintain best glide,
find a place to park, check the boost pumps, tighen up your shoulder
harness, hit the starter, all this while soiling your undergarments.
I offer a different question and some answers.
What can we do to improve our safety while flying in the pattern?
Tighten up our patterns. An engine failure in the pattern should never
result in an off airport landing. (maybe off the runway, but on the airport
property.) We should talk to our friends about the bomber patterns we all
see at our airports and set a good example, by flying nice tight patterns.
Never Turn back to the runway on an engine failure after take-off.
Shock cooling be damned, approaches should be made at idle power.
Aim for the 1000 ft markers, not the end of the runway.
Don't get slow!
Every power change in the pattern should be a reduction. Not counting ATC,
adding power in the pattern should be considered poor planning and an error.
Every one should have an engine failure checklist committed to memory. Mine
is an old WWII checklist:
Glide - pull or push to best glide speed
Gear - Up or down, up is default unless you are willing to bet your life
that the ground is hard
Gas - Pump on and Try all Selector all positions including OFF, ( I had
one quit, right after annual, and it ran in OFF )
Ignition - try all positions including OFF
Heat - Carb Heat on
Mixture - Rich or maybe leaned on an injected eng.
Prop - Low RPM or Feather
Canopy - open(or doors unlatched) before impact
Harness - Seat and shoulder harness locked and tight
Finally when the end is near,
Mixture, Master & Mags off for impact
You notice flaps did not even make the list.
To answer the original question, If I was high enough to do everything else
that is more important, then I would raise the flaps. There is more
important work to do than raising the flaps. The most important thing, FLY
the airplane to the ground. Airplanes that arrive at the accident site
under control with the wings level usually have survivors onboard. You will
notice Glide is first on the list, and the only thing on the list that I did
when my engine quit.
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Extending a glide |
I did power-off approaches a lot during the early hours of my RV-8. But I'd
routinely see 1300 fpm descent rates turning final (solo, half flaps, prop
forward, power off, 80-85 knots). It's good to practice that scenario, I
but now I typically keep 10" MP in for a more benign approach. FWIW.....
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 120 Hrs
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Rozendaal
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glide
>
>
> Kevin wrote a excellent description of the technical aspects
> of engine out glidepath. I'll take a different approach.
......
>
> Shock cooling be damned, approaches should be made at idle power.
>
.....
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
version=3.0.2
Charlie I understand the dragging it in behind anothere plane thing.
Instructors must be teaching pilots to do extended downwinds for some stupid
reason these days. I have had to follow piolots doing up to 2 mile or more
downwinds past the threshhold, no way you could get back. Always cute to
note that when a pilot anounced he was doing an engine out practice, they
were cutting in VERY close :-) I got my ratings on a little 2300ft strip
with tall trees each end, I still tend to come in high and close. Charlie
heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glide
Crosley, Rich wrote:
>
>
>Suppose, just suppose that you're in your RV-8 on speed, full flaps turning
>base to 1/2 mile final and the engine quits. You are pretty sure that you
>have the runway made but you want to extend your glide as much as possible.
>Do you leave the flaps where they are or do you raise them and if so how
>much? Thought about this yesterday as I turned final.
>
>
>Rich Crosley
>RV-8 N948RC
>
My instructor insisted that I have the engine at idle when abeam the
numbers & that I fly the landing pattern so that I'd have the runway
made at any time if the engine quit. The technique continued to work
fine when I went from the Luscombe to a Thorp T-18, then a Swift with
160hp & c/s prop, then the same Swift with 200hp & c/s. It works fine
with f/p RV's & I'm pretty sure it would have worked fine on the one c/s
example I've flown if the owner had been comfortable with the idea.
True confession time:
I had the engine quit once while on long final dragging along with power
following another a/c at a flyin years ago. I was probably not much more
than 1/2 mile out when it quit. I might have frozen up a bit, but I only
had time to tell myself to 'fly the plane', set best glide speed &
notice that the stuff under us looked benign enough to just ruin the
plane & not us. By that time a gear leg had hit one tall stalk of
something & we were stopped on the runway. Switched tanks, hit the boost
pump & starter & the plane ran fine with fuel being delivered. (Problem
started with a controller telling me to do something I considered unsafe
about a half hour earlier just as I was reaching for the fuel selector
to change tanks. It continued when I had to follow others around a
monster sized pattern. I let the distraction & stress of flying in an
uncomfortable fashion distract me from switching tanks.)
At 80-90 mph, 1/2 mile would be maybe 20 seconds. I suppose that with
cooler fluid in your veins you'd be able to evaluate whether the
increased sink rate when the flaps come up is less of a problem than the
drag, but I was proud that I could focus enough to 'fly the plane' &
look for the least lethal path into the weeds.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
I experienced a phenomenon you apparently encountered as well, sitting in the cockpit
with the master on, familiarizing myself with the new gadgets and planning
future test flights (okay, I was making airplane noises, too, for old times'
sake): I turned on the servo and observed the stick begin oscillatiing rapidly
left and right, and decided to watch how long it would take to settle down.
It never did. If I grabbed the stick and held it still, I could hear and
feel the servo fighting me and the clutch slipping. Getting out of the cockpit,
I tried restraining the aileron training edge - shaking continued. I disengaged
and re-engaged the servo several times, even cycled the control head off
and on, but the results were always the same. I guess this is normal behavior?
Trio's automatic-disconnect feature using GPS speed to detect takeoff roll seems
redundant, since mine has a built-in stick shaker when it's engaged while still
on the ground :-)
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: charlie heathco <cheathco(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio update
I am just a few days ahead of you, flew mine first time last week, and Sat I
set up a 5 point flight plan and it flew it like a charm, exept for the turn
at first waypoint which was about 120 deg, overshot considerably. I need to
also experiment with gain. As wing leveler, I can do much better, it tends
to keep the wings rocking a lot, I need to talk with Jerry about what to
addjust. Charlie Heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Trio update
I flew my new Trio EZ pilot A/P with the new GPS connected for the first
time yesterday, and was that ever sweet! Kinda spooky to see invisible
hands flying your airplane for the first time in 500 hours. I'm easily
impressed, but having two brand new boxes in the cockpit with me on a test
flight, I couldn't help but be.
I'm still exploring the capabilities of the Trio, but it tracks a flight
plan, does the emergency 180, and holds a course well, and is a functional
wing-leveler even without GPS input. Installation was very straightforward
and uncomplicated. The Garmin 296 manual took all day Saturday and half the
day Sunday to pore over, but I think I am now capable of putting that unit
through most of its paces. The UPS man brought me a data cable last week
for it, and a Panel Dock form AirGizmos today, so by tonight it should be in
my panel like it belongs there, instead of dangling from a bunch of wires
like yesterday ;-)
I had the EZ-Pilot follow a 90-degree turn at a flight plan waypoint, and
the overshoot to the outside of the turn was about 0.8nm at 150 mph, with a
secondary overshoot to the inside of 0.12nm before it locked onto the new
heading outbound. This is no doubt due to the 15 degree bank limiting
default setting, so I will play with the gain a bit on subsequent flights.
Thanks, Sam B., for your earlier suggestion of gain values. I plan to look
them up and use them as starting points.
-Stormy
very happy Garmin and Trio customer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/22/2005 8:29:09 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
sportav8r(at)aol.com writes:
I turned on the servo and observed the stick begin oscillating rapidly left
and right, and decided to watch how long it would take to settle down. It
never did. If I grabbed the stick and held it still, I could hear and feel the
servo fighting me and the clutch slipping. Getting out of the cockpit, I
tried restraining the aileron training edge - shaking continued. I disengaged
and re-engaged the servo several times, even cycled the control head off and
on, but the results were always the same. I guess this is normal behavior?
==================
IME this is normal ground behavior. In flight the air loads effectively
damp this out.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 755hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
In flight it does not seem to hunt much at all. On the ground, without GPS lock,
it shakes at about 2.5 Hz. Don't ask me to explain why I would want to engage
the servo in the hangar - because it's there?
;-)
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio update
Stormy,
Does your stick move left/right at a 1 Hertz rate? Both
Rick G and I have that situation. Mine does not have the
GPS input yet so that may be a factor but Rick does have
GPS input.
I did chat with Trio about it and they have a possible solution
so I am not overly concerned yet and until I see if it still does
that once I provide a GPS input.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
version=3.0.2
Larry, I was trained to pull to Idle at the treshold, which I still do
mostly, but here at Old Boerne Stage, we sometimes have a glider with tow
plane atatched sitting at the treshhold that I have to come in over, makes
me a little edgy, and I usually put in some power as I still like to land
close to the numbers and last Sat, I had a glider in the pattern and one
circling near departure end and towplane on the ground ready to pull and
waiting. Circling glider was instrutor/student. reply to whats your plan, JP
told me to disreguard him and set up normal downwind entrywhich I did, then
he pulls in about 500' in front of me, turns back and passes me head on left
at about 100' away. My coment "that was interesting" his coment "thats a
pretty airplane" Then as Im on final he anounces that he is getting too low,
Ive got to land as short as posible and get off, tow plane must start the
pull as soon as I hit the runway to get out of his way. Oh well, beats
being bored in front of the TV. :-) Charlie h----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Extending a glide
I did power-off approaches a lot during the early hours of my RV-8. But I'd
routinely see 1300 fpm descent rates turning final (solo, half flaps, prop
forward, power off, 80-85 knots). It's good to practice that scenario, I
but now I typically keep 10" MP in for a more benign approach. FWIW.....
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8 120 Hrs
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Rozendaal
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:58 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glide
>
>
> Kevin wrote a excellent description of the technical aspects
> of engine out glidepath. I'll take a different approach.
......
>
> Shock cooling be damned, approaches should be made at idle power.
>
.....
>
> Tailwinds,
> Doug Rozendaal
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
version=3.0.2
No Stormy, This is not normal, It will usually shake when turned on in the
hanger,due to no aileron resistance, but light touch will stop it, Talk to
Jerry. Charlie h
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio update
I experienced a phenomenon you apparently encountered as well, sitting in
the cockpit with the master on, familiarizing myself with the new gadgets
and planning future test flights (okay, I was making airplane noises, too,
for old times' sake): I turned on the servo and observed the stick begin
oscillatiing rapidly left and right, and decided to watch how long it would
take to settle down. It never did. If I grabbed the stick and held it
still, I could hear and feel the servo fighting me and the clutch slipping.
Getting out of the cockpit, I tried restraining the aileron training edge -
shaking continued. I disengaged and re-engaged the servo several times,
even cycled the control head off and on, but the results were always the
same. I guess this is normal behavior?
Trio's automatic-disconnect feature using GPS speed to detect takeoff roll
seems redundant, since mine has a built-in stick shaker when it's engaged
while still on the ground :-)
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: charlie heathco <cheathco(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trio update
I am just a few days ahead of you, flew mine first time last week, and Sat I
set up a 5 point flight plan and it flew it like a charm, exept for the turn
at first waypoint which was about 120 deg, overshot considerably. I need to
also experiment with gain. As wing leveler, I can do much better, it tends
to keep the wings rocking a lot, I need to talk with Jerry about what to
addjust. Charlie Heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: <sportav8r(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Trio update
I flew my new Trio EZ pilot A/P with the new GPS connected for the first
time yesterday, and was that ever sweet! Kinda spooky to see invisible
hands flying your airplane for the first time in 500 hours. I'm easily
impressed, but having two brand new boxes in the cockpit with me on a test
flight, I couldn't help but be.
I'm still exploring the capabilities of the Trio, but it tracks a flight
plan, does the emergency 180, and holds a course well, and is a functional
wing-leveler even without GPS input. Installation was very straightforward
and uncomplicated. The Garmin 296 manual took all day Saturday and half the
day Sunday to pore over, but I think I am now capable of putting that unit
through most of its paces. The UPS man brought me a data cable last week
for it, and a Panel Dock form AirGizmos today, so by tonight it should be in
my panel like it belongs there, instead of dangling from a bunch of wires
like yesterday ;-)
I had the EZ-Pilot follow a 90-degree turn at a flight plan waypoint, and
the overshoot to the outside of the turn was about 0.8nm at 150 mph, with a
secondary overshoot to the inside of 0.12nm before it locked onto the new
heading outbound. This is no doubt due to the 15 degree bank limiting
default setting, so I will play with the gain a bit on subsequent flights.
Thanks, Sam B., for your earlier suggestion of gain values. I plan to look
them up and use them as starting points.
-Stormy
very happy Garmin and Trio customer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
>Shock cooling be damned, approaches should be made at idle power.
Shock cooling is not an issue if you gradually reduce power before
you enter the pattern.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
Exactly my point. There are pilots who think they have to fly bomber
patterns to prevent shock cooling. No doubt a power on approach is might be
slightly preferable for the engine, but power-on approaches are for
multi-motor airplanes.
Doug Rozendaal
>
>
>>Shock cooling be damned, approaches should be made at idle power.
>
> Shock cooling is not an issue if you gradually reduce power before
> you enter the pattern.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
On 8/22/05, Doug Rozendaal wrote:
> Tighten up our patterns. An engine failure in the pattern should never
> result in an off airport landing. (maybe off the runway, but on the
> airport
> property.) We should talk to our friends about the bomber patterns we all
> see at our airports and set a good example, by flying nice tight patterns.
Amen to that brother. Wingtip over the runway on downwind, throttle idle
past midfield, manage glide with prop, flaps, bank angle, and speeds. I can
nail the runway numbers nearly every time without touching the throttle. I
refuse to follow anyone that is three miles out. The descent rate power off
in an RV is easily managable. Why not practice power off ops every time you
land? You'll be a better pilot by doing so.
> Never Turn back to the runway on an engine failure after take-off.
I have practiced this many times, I think its a bit of a stretch to say
"never." Actually, I religiously practice 1 hour a month (practicing engine
quit scenarios.) At idle power I can get turned around and back on the
runway if I have 800ft of altitude. I dare to say that I could probably be
lower if I had AOA. I think in a real-world situation the minimum would be
closer to 1500 ft. because practicing for it is completely different than
having the engine quit unexpectedly. Of course there are other factors such
as winds, aircraft weight, etc. to consider but before I take off I always
spend a few seconds after runup thinking about what I should do if the
engine quits, given current conditions, what my minimum turn-around altitude
is gonna be, is there a crosswind, etc.
Shock cooling be damned, approaches should be made at idle power.
Yep. If you enter the pattern at less than 150mph (my rule is no more than
that), you will be reducing power a few 2-3 miles out, on top of what power
reductions you made for your descent. As far as I know if CHT's are below
300 then you can't shock cool the engine.
Aim for the 1000 ft markers, not the end of the runway.
>
> Don't get slow!
>
> Every power change in the pattern should be a reduction. Not counting ATC,
> adding power in the pattern should be considered poor planning and an
> error.
I agree. I give myself a range of speeds to be in on final, which is
70-85mph. I don't concern myself with nailing the approach speed, but
usually it works out where I want it to be (65-70 at flare.) I don't allow
myself to add power unless I really screwed up.
Every one should have an engine failure checklist committed to memory. Mine
> is an old WWII checklist:
>
> Glide - pull or push to best glide speed
> Gear - Up or down, up is default unless you are willing to bet your life
> that the ground is hard
> Gas - Pump on and Try all Selector all positions including OFF, ( I had
> one quit, right after annual, and it ran in OFF )
> Ignition - try all positions including OFF
> Heat - Carb Heat on
> Mixture - Rich or maybe leaned on an injected eng.
> Prop - Low RPM or Feather
> Canopy - open(or doors unlatched) before impact
> Harness - Seat and shoulder harness locked and tight
>
> Finally when the end is near,
> Mixture, Master & Mags off for impact
>
> You notice flaps did not even make the list.
>
> To answer the original question, If I was high enough to do everything
> else
> that is more important, then I would raise the flaps. There is more
> important work to do than raising the flaps. The most important thing, FLY
> the airplane to the ground. Airplanes that arrive at the accident site
> under control with the wings level usually have survivors onboard. You
> will
> notice Glide is first on the list, and the only thing on the list that I
> did
> when my engine quit.
I usually use flaps as necessary, not as procedure. If I have any power in,
I don't have any flaps down. Flaps frequently come in on short final when
the runway is made. I have manual flaps, so deployment takes a second or two
vs. eternity with an electric flap equipped RV. It shouldn't be necessary to
raise flaps if you are properly managing your glidepath.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying 650+ hours, F1 under const.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Porter" <december29(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
Hi all,
Okay, the real reason against bomber
patterns.............Ready?.......................Here it
is!..............Rental fees! Ha ha. Until I finish my -8, I'm renting and
these "runway on the horizon" patterns really burn me up. Hobbs meter-
check. I'm a real believer in having the metal land somewhere on the
airport. Have fun with the L/D discussions that will follow. I plan to
come off the perch with just a slight cushion of power and let the games
begin. Remember, flying is supposed to be fun!
Later,
John
-8 World's slowest build
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glideExtending a glide |
I did some experimenting today with my Garman 296 which has a feature called =93Glide
Ratio=94.
The Garmin manual defines glide ratio as; the ratio between horizontal distance
traveled to vertical distance traveled. For example:
5.3 : 1 1,000=92 per 1 mile or 1 mile per 1,000=92
10.6 : 1 1,000=92 per 2 miles or 2 miles per 1,000=92
15.9 : 1 1,000=92 per 3 miles or 3 miles per 1,000=92
Another way to look at is increasing glide ratio means extending the glide.
Here are the numbers I got with my RV-8 at idle power. I have an O-360 engine
with a fixed pitch cruise prop. All numbers are approximate and vary depending
on altitude.
Clean 12.5 : 1 at 90 mph
12.5 : 1 at 100 mph
10.5 :1 at 80 mph
=BD Flap 08.2 : 1 at 100 mph
10.0 : 1 at 90 mph
08.2 : 1 at 80 mph
My conclusion is, no flaps will extend the glide and the best glide speed is 90
mph.
Constant speed props will be different.
Steve Glasgow
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
250 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
Bob,
1500 ft is not exactly "after takeoff" That is cruise altitude. ;-)
That said, Practice or not, the NTSB reports are littered with fatalities of
those who tried to turn back and failed. I agree that is can be done, but
most pilots don't get it done and they pay for their mistake with their life
instead of their insurance policy. The mantra must be, "Don't turn back."
An RV-8 tried it in Colorado this month. Fatal. There are several good
places to crash around the Fort Collins Airport.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 050816X01250&key=1
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
The defender of Don't Turn Back
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glideExtending a glide |
As a new this weekend 296 owner, I looked at at that in the book and wasn't real
clear on how it was supposed to work. I got the impression it was a number
I was supposed to enter into the unit's data fields. You mean it calculates it
for you on the fly? How cool is that!
-Stormy
...assaulting the peak of the GPS learning curve; needing oxygen and crampons...
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glasgow <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
I did some experimenting today with my Garman 296 which has a feature called
=93Glide Ratio=94.
The Garmin manual defines glide ratio as; the ratio between horizontal distance
traveled to vertical distance traveled. For example:
5.3 : 1 1,000=92 per 1 mile or 1 mile per 1,000=92
10.6 : 1 1,000=92 per 2 miles or 2 miles per 1,000=92
15.9 : 1 1,000=92 per 3 miles or 3 miles per 1,000=92
Another way to look at is increasing glide ratio means extending the glide.
Here are the numbers I got with my RV-8 at idle power. I have an O-360 engine
with a fixed pitch cruise prop. All numbers are approximate and vary depending
on altitude.
Clean 12.5 : 1 at 90 mph
12.5 : 1 at 100 mph
10.5 :1 at 80 mph
=BD Flap 08.2 : 1 at 100 mph
10.0 : 1 at 90 mph
08.2 : 1 at 80 mph
My conclusion is, no flaps will extend the glide and the best glide speed is 90
mph.
Constant speed props will be different.
Steve Glasgow
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
250 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: servo oscillation |
Thanks, Jerry. Good explanation. I did try damping it by holding the aileron
trailing edge with my fingertips, but no success. Never has been as issue on
test flights so far, and I want to retain the precision tracking in the air,
so I will leave well-enough alone.
I do think that this incidental stick-shaker feature would get my attention if
I ever tried a takeoff with the servo engaged. Still, it's nice to have the GPS
ground roll disconnect software built-in :-)
Anticipate gain control test flights today,and will contact you if I have any issues.
Directions look very straightforward.
I will copy this to the RV list for general edification; many are following this
discussion and I want them to know how helpful you've been and how good the
EZ-Pilot is, IMO.
All the best to the tres hombres at Trio,
-Bill B
-----Original Message-----
From: Jerry Hansen <jerry(at)trioavionics.com>
Subject: RE: servo oscillation
Bill, that phenomenon is caused by the very narrow "deadband" in the Navaid servo.
It is seen in some, not all, aircraft with fairly massive counterweights
in the ailerons. It also varies with how free your controls are - i.e. if you
have a little friction in the system it will probably damp on its own (not that
I recommend putting friction into your control system). It can be eliminated
or reduced by opening up the deadband area of the servo (an internal potentiometer
adjustment), but his will also affect the responsiveness of the servo
somewhat and reduce its performance characteristics. If you can tolerate the
stick shake on the ground, I would say to leave it alone and get the better performance
in the air.
What is actually happening here is common in classic servo systems that are "underdamped",
often for better response. When you turn the servo on (on the ground
where there is no airload on the ailerons) the servo will move the ailerons
to the neutral position. Because of the mass in the ailerons and the rapid
movement of the servo it will reach the neutral point but the mass will cause
it to overshoot a small amount. This will generate an error signal causing the
servo to rapidly correct in the opposite direction (again with a small amount
of overshoot). As this process repeats, you get the oscillation that you mention.
The narrow deadband does give the servo the ability to react quickly (as in turbulence)
and to input very small corrections to the controls for extremely fine
tracking control.
We can give you directions on how to reduce or eliminate the effect if you want.
However, as mentioned, It may reduce the performance some in the air. Because
there is no need to turn the servo on while on the ground, except for the
preflight check, you shouldn't find it to be a big problem in normal operation.
It will definately not harm the autopilot system in any way.
If you'd like more information, please let us know.
Best Regards,
Jerry Hansen
Trio Avionics
http://www.trioavionics.com
Phone - 619-448-4619
From: sportav8r(at)aol.com [mailto:sportav8r(at)aol.com]
Subject: servo oscillation
Do I need to do anything about a 2-3 Hz joystick oscillation that does not damp,
caused by activating the aileron servo while the airplane is on the ground not
in motion?
Thanks, guys,
-Bill Boyd
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glideExtending a glide |
| From: | Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
What was the wind? The speed for best glide ratio over the ground is higher
into a headwind and lower with a tailwind.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
>
> I did some experimenting today with my Garman 296 which has a feature called
> =93Glide Ratio=94.
>
>
> The Garmin manual defines glide ratio as; the ratio between horizontal
> distance traveled to vertical distance traveled. For example:
>
>
> 5.3 : 1 1,000=92 per 1 mile or 1 mile per 1,000=92
>
> 10.6 : 1 1,000=92 per 2 miles or 2 miles per 1,000=92
>
> 15.9 : 1 1,000=92 per 3 miles or 3 miles per 1,000=92
>
>
> Another way to look at is increasing glide ratio means extending the glide.
>
>
> Here are the numbers I got with my RV-8 at idle power. I have an O-360 engine
> with a fixed pitch cruise prop. All numbers are approximate and vary
> depending on altitude.
>
>
> Clean 12.5 : 1 at 90 mph
>
> 12.5 : 1 at 100 mph
>
> 10.5 :1 at 80 mph
>
>
> =BD Flap 08.2 : 1 at 100 mph
>
> 10.0 : 1 at 90 mph
>
> 08.2 : 1 at 80 mph
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Extending a glideExtending a glide |
Keep in mind that the ratio it calculates is very wind dependant - the ratio will
be a whole lot better looking going downwind than upwind. To get a reasonable
number you'd have to go thru a similar correction process (3-4 direction avg
or some such) that you do to get an airspeed estimate. For all that it's probably
easier and faster to just use a stopwatch and read the airspeed and altimeter
if the absolute number is important. I love gadgets and will have a bunch
of them I really don't need but sometimes it seems manufacturers just pad the
feature list. YMMV
Greg Young
________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of sportav8r(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
As a new this weekend 296 owner, I looked at at that in the book and wasn't real
clear on how it was supposed to work. I got the impression it was a number
I was supposed to enter into the unit's data fields. You mean it calculates it
for you on the fly? How cool is that!
-Stormy
...assaulting the peak of the GPS learning curve; needing oxygen and crampons...
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glasgow <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
I did some experimenting today with my Garman 296 which has a feature called
93Glide Ratio94.
The Garmin manual defines glide ratio as; the ratio between horizontal distance
traveled to vertical distance traveled. For example:
5.3 : 1 1,00092 per 1 mile or 1 mile per 1,00092
10.6 : 1 1,00092 per 2 miles or 2 miles per 1,00092
15.9 : 1 1,00092 per 3 miles or 3 miles per 1,00092
Another way to look at is increasing glide ratio means extending the glide.
Here are the numbers I got with my RV-8 at idle power. I have an O-360 engine
with a fixed pitch cruise prop. All numbers are approximate and vary depending
on altitude.
Clean 12.5 : 1 at 90 mph
12.5 : 1 at 100 mph
10.5 :1 at 80 mph
BD Flap 08.2 : 1 at 100 mph
10.0 : 1 at 90 mph
08.2 : 1 at 80 mph
My conclusion is, no flaps will extend the glide and the best glide speed is 90
mph.
Constant speed props will be different.
Steve Glasgow
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
250 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Bibb" <rebibb(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
I agree with the idiocy of patterns most so called pilots fly....
As far as engine quit after takeoff I have to say land ahead. Having had an
engine quit (on landing not takeoff) I can tell you there is no way I'd want
to added stress of doing a 180....things happen real fast when the fan stops
blowing.
And yes when my engine quit I was too low (botched approach) and I didn't
make the runway. Landed softly in the tops of some pine trees and walked
away. I don't fly big patterns anymore and am always "high" on final....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Nav Antenna |
For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think there
could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get as much
vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but haven't yet
installed it.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Extending a glideExtending a glide |
In all this talk about glide ratios please remember that your glide ratio
will drop significantly if your prop is wind milling instead of turning with
the engine set to idle. Thus, if you are indeed in an engine out situation,
whatever glide ratios you came up with during your engine at idle will be
very optimistic. I suggest that if your glide ratio is 9:1 at idle, no
flaps; then, it will go down to 7:1 or less if the engine stops and the prop
keeps wind milling.
Michele
RV8 Fuselage
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young
> Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 6:31 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
>
>
> Keep in mind that the ratio it calculates is very wind dependant - the
> ratio will be a whole lot better looking going downwind than upwind. To
> get a reasonable number you'd have to go thru a similar correction process
> (3-4 direction avg or some such) that you do to get an airspeed estimate.
> For all that it's probably easier and faster to just use a stopwatch and
> read the airspeed and altimeter if the absolute number is important. I
> love gadgets and will have a bunch of them I really don't need but
> sometimes it seems manufacturers just pad the feature list. YMMV
>
> Greg Young
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of sportav8r(at)aol.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
>
>
>
> As a new this weekend 296 owner, I looked at at that in the book and
> wasn't real clear on how it was supposed to work. I got the impression it
> was a number I was supposed to enter into the unit's data fields. You
> mean it calculates it for you on the fly? How cool is that!
>
> -Stormy
>
> ...assaulting the peak of the GPS learning curve; needing oxygen and
> crampons...
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve Glasgow <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
>
>
>
> I did some experimenting today with my Garman 296 which has a feature
> called
> 93Glide Ratio94.
>
>
> The Garmin manual defines glide ratio as; the ratio between horizontal
> distance
> traveled to vertical distance traveled. For example:
>
>
> 5.3 : 1 1,00092 per 1 mile or 1 mile per 1,00092
>
> 10.6 : 1 1,00092 per 2 miles or 2 miles per 1,00092
>
> 15.9 : 1 1,00092 per 3 miles or 3 miles per 1,00092
>
>
> Another way to look at is increasing glide ratio means extending the
> glide.
>
>
> Here are the numbers I got with my RV-8 at idle power. I have an O-360
> engine
> with a fixed pitch cruise prop. All numbers are approximate and vary
> depending
> on altitude.
>
>
> Clean 12.5 : 1 at 90 mph
>
> 12.5 : 1 at 100 mph
>
> 10.5 :1 at 80 mph
>
>
> BD Flap 08.2 : 1 at 100 mph
>
> 10.0 : 1 at 90 mph
>
> 08.2 : 1 at 80 mph
>
>
> My conclusion is, no flaps will extend the glide and the best glide speed
> is 90
> mph.
>
>
> Constant speed props will be different.
>
>
> Steve Glasgow
> N123SG RV-8
> Cappy's Toy
> 250 Hours
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Nav Antenna |
Bob J wrote:
>
>For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think there
>could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get as much
>vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but haven't yet
>installed it.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Japundza
>RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
>
>
>
>
I made one from 1 1/2" copper foil. I wrapped it in the right wing tip
and glassed it in. I have no problem talking 45 or 50 mile from the
traffic pattern to traffic pattern.
I have not noticed the directivity although it has to be there. Perhaps
it would/will show up at greater distances or circunstances.
I am using a SL40 and I have the SWR to about 2.5 : 1 max from one end
of the band to the other using MFJ 259 for the prunning..... It is not
flat across the band, There are some places where it is close to 1.5 to
1 and a jagged curve..
I did put connectors and a splice barrel in the coax near the wing root
just in case I needed to go with a belly mount. At 50 hours it dont
seem like I will need it.
But when I was running a test on a bent solid wire antenna, I was able
to get SWR down to 1.5 to 1 over the same freq band using same test
equipment and it was a little flatter and smoother curve. I attributed
that to the nice ground plane. And before I tore the plane down to
paint it, it seemed like we all cruised about the same around here. So
for an average RV 6, unless I was going to go for some speed records, I
would probably mount it on the belly and start talking....
Just a simple oppinion from a simple person...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glideExtending a glide |
>
> Keep in mind that the ratio it calculates is very wind dependant...
>
True, but if you ignore the absolute numbers, and look
at the relative numbers, then it's clear that on his
aircraft flaps up is better. This assumes of course
that all the tests were done in the same wind conditions
and the aircraft flying the same heading.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Nav Antenna |
autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3
I have one of the Archer style com antennas in the wingtip of my RV8. It
is my only com antenna, connected to a KX-155, my only com. I have the
same type antenna in the other wingtip for the nav side.
The nav antenna lays flat in the bottom of the wingtip. The com antenna
is at a 45 or so degree angle in the wingtip. The bottom (long) side of
the antenna is bonded to the bottom of the wingtip, where it will make a
good contact with the bottom wing skin when the wingtip is screwed on.
The top side is bonded to the upper inside of the wingtip.
It should be that the signal received is .707 (cosine of 45 degrees) of
what a vertical antenna would receive. The power reduction would then be
10log(.707) or 1.5 dB. This is not much on paper.
In the air, I just can't tell the difference between my RV8 and my
Cessna. The radio works just fine. I can talk to other airplanes 100
miles away. I can hear ATIS long before I contact the tower, even at
fairly low altitudes. I have not had a tower complain about it. I have
not been able to detect any directional problems, even though I have
seen that reported on these email lists.
John Huft
Bob J wrote:
>
>For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think there
>could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get as much
>vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but haven't yet
>installed it.
>
>Regards,
>Bob Japundza
>RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
>
>
>.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Float type fuel gauge |
Vans does have a drawing for you to follow on how to bend the wire on the
senders. Interestingly the bend lengths are not the same on the right and
the left. Give them a call and have them fax it.......or send me your fax
number and I will forward you a copy. It is just an 8-1/2 x 11 page so no
biggie. Follow the drawing and it will fit just right.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com>
Subject: RV-List: Float type fuel gauge
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
> I just bought Van's float type fuel gauge & sender assembly for my RV7A.
The only installation instructions are the MFR's which show a top mount
configuration. Has anyone out there installed this type of sender & gauge?
If so, can you share with me how you did it? I'm thinking that I just need
to set the wing on a table in the "mounted on fuse" position and bend the
float arm such that it indicates empty when it is empty (or ideally with a
little reserve). I saw not adjustments for calibrating other than
positioning the float. Any feedback would be appreciated.
>
>
>
>
>
> Hey guys,
>
>
>
>
>
> I just bought Van's float type fuel gauge sender
> assembly for my RV7A. The only installation instructions are the MFR's
> which show a top mount configuration. Has anyone out there installed this
> type of sender gauge? If so, can you share with me how you did
> it? I'm thinking that I just need to set the wing on a table in the
> "mounted on fuse" position and bend the float arm such that it
> indicates empty when it is empty (or ideally with a little reserve). I
> saw not adjustments for calibrating other than positioning the float. Any
> feedback would be appreciated.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
version=3.0.2
Doug, I actually tried to see if I could make it back, (was at altitude) I
setup a take off climb at 90mph, pulled pwr and began the trun. It took 750'
just to do a 180, would have to do more to get back in line. this of course
was with me knowing it was going to happen, and Immy starting the manuever
Charlie h
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glide
Bob,
1500 ft is not exactly "after takeoff" That is cruise altitude. ;-)
That said, Practice or not, the NTSB reports are littered with fatalities of
those who tried to turn back and failed. I agree that is can be done, but
most pilots don't get it done and they pay for their mistake with their life
instead of their insurance policy. The mantra must be, "Don't turn back."
An RV-8 tried it in Colorado this month. Fatal. There are several good
places to crash around the Fort Collins Airport.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 050816X01250&key=1
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
The defender of Don't Turn Back
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charlie heathco" <cheathco(at)gvtc.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glideExtending a glide |
version=3.0.2
Steve, I find a ref to the term, but cant find a place to use it, can you
give us a page# ? (not clear on meaning of =93Glide Ratio=94 ?) Charlie h
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glideExtending a glide
I did some experimenting today with my Garman 296 which has a feature called
=93Glide Ratio=94.
The Garmin manual defines glide ratio as; the ratio between horizontal
distance traveled to vertical distance traveled. For example:
5.3 : 1 1,000=92 per 1 mile or 1 mile per 1,000=92
10.6 : 1 1,000=92 per 2 miles or 2 miles per 1,000=92
15.9 : 1 1,000=92 per 3 miles or 3 miles per 1,000=92
Another way to look at is increasing glide ratio means extending the glide.
Here are the numbers I got with my RV-8 at idle power. I have an O-360
engine with a fixed pitch cruise prop. All numbers are approximate and vary
depending on altitude.
Clean 12.5 : 1 at 90 mph
12.5 : 1 at 100 mph
10.5 :1 at 80 mph
=BD Flap 08.2 : 1 at 100 mph
10.0 : 1 at 90 mph
08.2 : 1 at 80 mph
My conclusion is, no flaps will extend the glide and the best glide speed is
90 mph.
Constant speed props will be different.
Steve Glasgow
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
250 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org> |
Hello All,
Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm thinking of using
one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be used for IFR.
Thanks,
Paul Richardson
RV-6A 106RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org> |
| Subject: | Trutrak Autopilot Servo versus Aileron Boot |
Hello,
Has anyone installed a Trutrak autopilot servo in an RV-6, with an aileron boot
also installed? I have the aileron boot installed at the exit into the wing under
the seats (to keep out cold air). Trutrak recommends installing the autopilot
roll servo in the same general area. I'm concerned about possible interference
between the two installations, for example the servo catching on the boot
fabric.
/Paul Richardson
RV-6A 106RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com> |
Paul,
Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh (05
August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI worked.
The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go to the
aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
JD
http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-486c-4a89-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
>
>
>
>Hello All,
>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm thinking
>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be used
>for IFR.
>Thanks,
>Paul Richardson
>RV-6A 106RV
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
Dear Paul,
I have been testing the NEW ADI from trutrak for the last six months and
find it to be a remarkable piece of equipment. It is very easy to see and
is very intuitive. I find it is much easier to maintain level flight in
actual IMC than any other steam guages that I have used over the years.
Because it is a solid state digital system, it uses a miniscual amout of
electricity which really adds to the redundancy of the unit, because it will
run for hours on a small standby battery. My unit has its own internal GPS
for added redundancy, and when comparing the direction with my regular
Apollo GPS, I find the readings identical, also the internal GPS seams to
be a fraction of a second quicker with the directional readout. Also,
doing aerobatics doesn't affect it at all.
Finally I am free of failing vacuum pumps and super expensive electric gyros
that still tumble and need frequent overhauls.
As a test pilot for TruTrak and RV8 builder,pilot, I can be of assistance .
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Paul,
>
> Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh (05
> August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
> product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI worked.
> The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go to the
> aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
>
> JD
>
> http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-486c-4a89-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
>
>
>>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
>>
>>
>>
>>Hello All,
>>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm thinking
>>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be used
>>for IFR.
>>Thanks,
>>Paul Richardson
>>RV-6A 106RV
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <flyingrv(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab |
Alan,
Thanks for passing on the location of my web site: www.fairings-etc.com.
Bob
Fairings-Etc
bob@fairings-etc.com
>
> From: alan(at)reichertech.com
> Date: 2005/08/21 Sun PM 01:11:45 EDT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
>
> http://www.fairings-etc.com
>
> - Alan
>
>
>
> Gang,
>
> Exactly where is the "fairings-etc" website referenced below?
>
> Thanks,
> Pedro
>
> RV-4 N562PW
>
> << Alternately, I've looked at the fairings-etc site. From the pics, it
> looks
> like they have their own mounting screw locations, so these 10 places
> aren't even
> being used, correct?>>
>
>
> --
> Alan Reichert
> Priv, Inst, SEL
> RV-8 N927AR (reserved)
> Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab |
Hi Bob,
Thanks for making the trip up to the Arlington fly-in this year. I really
appreciated your sharing your knowledge and tips with us and hope you'll
consider coming back. I learned a lot about making my fairings fit, and
what not to do with a heat gun!
Thanks again,
Dave Burton
RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: <flyingrv(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
> Alan,
>
> Thanks for passing on the location of my web site: www.fairings-etc.com.
>
> Bob
> Fairings-Etc
> bob@fairings-etc.com
> >
> > From: alan(at)reichertech.com
> > Date: 2005/08/21 Sun PM 01:11:45 EDT
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
> >
> >
> > http://www.fairings-etc.com
> >
> > - Alan
> >
> >
> >
> > Gang,
> >
> > Exactly where is the "fairings-etc" website referenced below?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Pedro
> >
> > RV-4 N562PW
> >
> > << Alternately, I've looked at the fairings-etc site. From the pics, it
> > looks
> > like they have their own mounting screw locations, so these 10 places
> > aren't even
> > being used, correct?>>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Alan Reichert
> > Priv, Inst, SEL
> > RV-8 N927AR (reserved)
> > Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Dick,
I too am considering the ADI for primary attitude indicator. I saw it at
Sun'N'Fun and liked it, but I'm curious about it's flyability. When you
get slow, is it still easy to fly the indicator? I see in the article
that it would indicate nose down with an airspeed warning when slow,
nose up, and descending. Is it still intuitive enough or does it just
get weird? Would you fly it IFR as primary?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dick martin
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
Dear Paul,
I have been testing the NEW ADI from trutrak for the last six months
and
find it to be a remarkable piece of equipment. It is very easy to see
and
is very intuitive. I find it is much easier to maintain level flight in
actual IMC than any other steam guages that I have used over the years.
Because it is a solid state digital system, it uses a miniscual amout of
electricity which really adds to the redundancy of the unit, because it
will
run for hours on a small standby battery. My unit has its own internal
GPS
for added redundancy, and when comparing the direction with my regular
Apollo GPS, I find the readings identical, also the internal GPS seams
to
be a fraction of a second quicker with the directional readout. Also,
doing aerobatics doesn't affect it at all.
Finally I am free of failing vacuum pumps and super expensive electric
gyros
that still tumble and need frequent overhauls.
As a test pilot for TruTrak and RV8 builder,pilot, I can be of
assistance .
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Paul,
>
> Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh
(05
> August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
> product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI
worked.
> The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go to the
> aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
>
> JD
>
>
http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-486c-4a8
9-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
>
>
>>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>To:
>>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
>>
>>
>>
>>Hello All,
>>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm
thinking
>>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be
used
>>for IFR.
>>Thanks,
>>Paul Richardson
>>RV-6A 106RV
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty" <martorious(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | SL30 Nav Antenna autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3 |
John,
I'm not familiar with the Archer Comm antenna, other than the fact
that it is mounted in the wingtip, is the installation you describe
standard for one, or is this a modified installation?
Marty in Indiana
RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:54 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearn=unavailable
>version=3.0.3
>
>
>I have one of the Archer style com antennas in the wingtip of my RV8.
>It
>is my only com antenna, connected to a KX-155, my only com. I have
>the
>same type antenna in the other wingtip for the nav side.
>
>The nav antenna lays flat in the bottom of the wingtip. The com
>antenna
>is at a 45 or so degree angle in the wingtip. The bottom (long) side
>of
>the antenna is bonded to the bottom of the wingtip, where it will
>make a
>good contact with the bottom wing skin when the wingtip is screwed
>on.
>The top side is bonded to the upper inside of the wingtip.
>
>It should be that the signal received is .707 (cosine of 45 degrees)
>of
>what a vertical antenna would receive. The power reduction would then
>be
>10log(.707) or 1.5 dB. This is not much on paper.
>
>In the air, I just can't tell the difference between my RV8 and my
>Cessna. The radio works just fine. I can talk to other airplanes 100
>miles away. I can hear ATIS long before I contact the tower, even at
>fairly low altitudes. I have not had a tower complain about it. I
>have
>not been able to detect any directional problems, even though I have
>seen that reported on these email lists.
>
>John Huft
>
>
>Bob J wrote:
>
>>
>>For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think
>there
>>could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get
>as much
>>vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but
>haven't yet
>>installed it.
>>
>>Regards,
>>Bob Japundza
>>RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
>>
>>
>>.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab |
Hi Dave,
What should we not do with a heat gun? I'm close to fitting my
fairings, and I was about to attack it with a heat gun!
Mickey
> Thanks for making the trip up to the Arlington fly-in this year. I really
> appreciated your sharing your knowledge and tips with us and hope you'll
> consider coming back. I learned a lot about making my fairings fit, and
> what not to do with a heat gun!
>
> Thanks again,
> Dave Burton
> RV6
>
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
I don't know how the numbers got in the post. It should have read Glide Ratio.
Yes of course wind will effect everything. The point was that no flaps gives you
a better ratio than with flaps. Additionally, the 296 will give you a read
out of Glide Ratio.
I have it entered in the lower left corner of the map page. If anyone besides
Stormy is looking for a way to use it on their 296 just go to map, obstacle or
position pages. Push MENU, go to Change Data Fields and enter Glide Ratio in
the position you want. Now you will have a constant reading of Glide Ratio.
If you want to extend the glide you can use this feature to find the best glide
ratio for current conditions.
Steve Glasgow
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
250 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3 |
autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3
I think that is the way called out in the instructions. The key is to
get as much vertical as you can for the com. Luckily, our RV wings are
thick enough to allow quite a bit.
John
Marty wrote:
>
>John,
>I'm not familiar with the Archer Comm antenna, other than the fact
>that it is mounted in the wingtip, is the installation you describe
>standard for one, or is this a modified installation?
>
>Marty in Indiana
>RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
>
>
>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
>>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:54 PM
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearn=unavailable
>>version=3.0.3
>>
>>
>>I have one of the Archer style com antennas in the wingtip of my RV8.
>>It
>>is my only com antenna, connected to a KX-155, my only com. I have
>>the
>>same type antenna in the other wingtip for the nav side.
>>
>>The nav antenna lays flat in the bottom of the wingtip. The com
>>antenna
>>is at a 45 or so degree angle in the wingtip. The bottom (long) side
>>of
>>the antenna is bonded to the bottom of the wingtip, where it will
>>make a
>>good contact with the bottom wing skin when the wingtip is screwed
>>on.
>>The top side is bonded to the upper inside of the wingtip.
>>
>>It should be that the signal received is .707 (cosine of 45 degrees)
>>of
>>what a vertical antenna would receive. The power reduction would then
>>be
>>10log(.707) or 1.5 dB. This is not much on paper.
>>
>>In the air, I just can't tell the difference between my RV8 and my
>>Cessna. The radio works just fine. I can talk to other airplanes 100
>>miles away. I can hear ATIS long before I contact the tower, even at
>>fairly low altitudes. I have not had a tower complain about it. I
>>have
>>not been able to detect any directional problems, even though I have
>>seen that reported on these email lists.
>>
>>John Huft
>>
>>
>>Bob J wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think
>>>
>>>
>>there
>>
>>
>>>could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get
>>>
>>>
>>as much
>>
>>
>>>vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but
>>>
>>>
>>haven't yet
>>
>>
>>>installed it.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>Bob Japundza
>>>RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
>>>
>>>
>>>.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacklockamy" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Lessons Learned: Cross Country in an RV-3 |
A buddy of mine purchased an RV-3 on EBay (see http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item4568282095&rd1&sspagenameSTRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd1) last week. We agreed I would fly commercial from Burbank, CA to Nashville, TN, rent a car, drive to Chattanooga, TN, inspect the plane and fly it back to Camarillo, CA for him. (He owns a Cirrus SR20 and doesn't have a tailwheel endorsement....yet.) I told him "sure.... why not"? I had a couple days to spare from work and my weekend was free also.
Departed Burbank, CA on Southwest Airlines to Nashville last Thursday AM. Arrived
the seller (very nice 36 yr-old Falcon-50 corporate jet Captain) and began inspecting
the airplane. Plane was nicely built in 1993 (615 TTAF) with the -3A
wing mod and was powered by a 2035 hour TTSN Lycoming 0320-D2J (160 HP) with
a Pacesetter wood prop. The seller had owned the RV-3 for 9 months and had only
flown it 15 hrs. Having the RV-3 parked in a small hangar behind a a Beech
Baron and a 40-minute ride to the airport made it a chore to fly it more regularly
I guess.
Departed Chattanooga Friday AM and headed for Savannah/Hilton Head International
(KSAV) in Georgia to visit relatives and so the subsequent flight plan to California
would keep me over 'less mountainous' terrain. Upon landing at KSAV
the airplane immediately developed a SEVERE wheel shimmy. The shimmy was severe
enough that the engine shut down during the landing roll-out which I attributed
to fuel in the carb bowl being very 'disburbed'..... And I had a Boeing
737 bearing down on me on final! Mind you... the plane has no IFF Transponder
so I had called Savannah Tower prior to departing 1AO for special permission
to enter Savannnah Class C airspace and land at KSAV for fuel, was given permission
to proceeed inbound and land IF they were able to pick me up on radar as
a primary target, I had a SEVERE wheel shimmy and I had a STOPPED engine!!!
The KSAV tower controller was urgently asking me to "exit the runway immediately"!
Trust me... I was doing my very best to do just that...
Somehow I got the engine re-started and made the first turn-off prior to the 737
being forced to 'go-around'. This just happened to be my very first landing
in an RV-3, and YES... it got my FULL attention. I only have about 175 hrs in
tailwheels (Citabria, Sonerai 2 and a Sonex), but this was BY FAR the most exciting
landing I had ever experienced! Parked the aircraft at Signature Aviation
FBO, checked my shorts, and started making some phone calls. I also searched
the RV-List archives for "RV-3 wheel shimmy" to see what I could learn about
the shimmy problem which was a definite "show stopper" as far as flying the
airplane again until this was figured out. From the pre-purchase inspection
I discovered the seller had balanced the wheel pants with lead shot and epoxy
in the nose of the wheel pants and wood shimmy dampners were installed on the
gear legs. What the seller didn't tell me (or didn't know) was that we should
NEVER have added air to the tires! From reading the RV List Archives, I discovered
tire pressures should be 22-24 PSI... not 40-45 PSI which we had inflated
the tires to during the pre-flight inspection the night before. I had increased
the tire pressure so there was more clearance around the wheel pant openings.
LESSON #1: NEVER inflate main gear tires pressure on an RV-3 to above
24 PSI!
My brother and I went back out to the airport, removed the wheel pants, reduced
the tire pressure to 22 PSI, and ensured the wheel pant brackets were properly
secured. I performed two taxi test and the difference was amazing! I now felt
confident I could safely get the RV-3 back to California.
Departed KSAV Saturday morning at daylight and headed to KMVC (Monroeville, AL)
for the first fuel stop. This RV-3 has a 24-gal header fuel tank, was burning
8 gph at altitude so I had planned two-hour legs with a one-hour reserve. After
reaching cruise altitude (8500'), the Garmin 196 yoke mount I had attached
to the lower instrument panel had worked loose and had to be re-tightened.
While tightening the mount, my hand inadvertantly shut the fuel pump toggle switch
to OFF. Within 5 seconds the engine shut down! (The plane is equipped with
two electric fuel pumps - no mechanical engine fuel pump). What the !@#$!
Looked for a landing site, set best glide speed, took some DEEP BREATHS and
then went through the engine re-start sequence. Only lost about 500 FT altitude
when I discovered the fuel pump switch not in the full up position. An old
worn-out toggle switich for your primary source of fuel is BAD! LESSON #2: Always
have a mechanical fuel pump and ensure electric fuel pumps are protected
from inadvertant shut down with a safety lock and not placed in a row of switches
operating such things comm, lights, etc. Fuel pump switches should be all
by themselves on a panel.
The rest of the trip home was a pleasure. Just wish the plane had some Oregon
Aero seats with temperfoam installed. At cruising altitudes of 8500-10500, and
at 2400-2500 RPMS, I was seeing 180-190 MPH ground speeds with 10-15 KTS headwinds.
With two-hour or less legs for fuel stops, the route of flight for Saturday
was planned as: KSAV, KMVC (Monroeville, AL), KMLU (Monroe, LA), KLUD
(Decatur, TX) and KPRZ (Portales, NM). Prior to reaching Portales, I could see
rain and thunderstorms ahead so I diverted to KCVN (Clovis, NM) for the night.
Not bad for a days flying..... And the people I met at these airports were
the best. Regardless of what see you on the 6-oclock news, there are still
some good people out there and usually they are "airplane folks". Got offered
(and accepted) some home-made BBQ sandwiches and "sweet tea" in Alabama and a
6 mile ride to/from the airport into town at Clovis, NM from a fellow who owned
the local Econo Lodge. Gene flies ultralights at Clovis but he was excited
to see the RV-3....
Departed Clovis Sunday AM with fuel stops at KSJN (St. Johns, AZ) and KHII (Lake
mention also is that the 2035 hr TTSN Lycoming used ZERO oil for the entire
trip (13.6 hrs)! I still find it hard to believe but it's true.
Since arriving the plane has been cleaned, cowl and panels removed, and will be
getting a much needed "face-lift" on the instrument panel (Dynon D10A, Becker
Transponder, etc.) soon. Oh... and new seat cushions! :-)
To recap some lessons learned:
1. Have an IFF transponder installed (VFR flight following is nice during long
cross country flights....)
2. NEVER inflate tires on an RV-3 above 24 PSI
3. Taxiing above 15 MPH in this RV is NOT recommended (wheel shimmy)
4. Have a mechanical fuel pump on your engine (electric fuel pumps can and will
fail....) .
5. Switches that must be ON to keep the aircraft airborne should be protected
with locking devices or covers so that they can not be inadvertantly shut OFF.
These switches should also NOT be located in a row with light switches, comm
switches, etc.
6. When you are faced with a engine out situation, don't panic, take a few deep
breaths, fly the airplane, and go through the re-start sequence calmly.
And finally, it's all about the journey.... not the destination!
Gotta love these RVs....
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A N175JL
www.jacklockamy.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com> |
I hope that no one minds my jumping in here to clarify a little on the
ADI...
I do believe that the article may have had a few mistakes, the ADI will NOT
indicate nose up if you are descending. The ADI will only show nose up, if
you are in fact climbing. If your airspeed gets to a minimum airspeed, that
the pilot sets, ADI will begin indicating "A-S"...we added the minimum
airspeed to tell people (especially lower time VFR pilots such as myself) to
pay attention to the airspeed indicator, as people do sometimes tend to get
tunnel vision in IMC.
Once again, I hope that no one minds my reply. If anyone has questions, I
will however be very happy to answer them.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
www.trutrakap.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Dick,
>
> I too am considering the ADI for primary attitude indicator. I saw it at
> Sun'N'Fun and liked it, but I'm curious about it's flyability. When you
> get slow, is it still easy to fly the indicator? I see in the article
> that it would indicate nose down with an airspeed warning when slow,
> nose up, and descending. Is it still intuitive enough or does it just
> get weird? Would you fly it IFR as primary?
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dick martin
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
> Dear Paul,
> I have been testing the NEW ADI from trutrak for the last six months
> and
> find it to be a remarkable piece of equipment. It is very easy to see
> and
> is very intuitive. I find it is much easier to maintain level flight in
>
> actual IMC than any other steam guages that I have used over the years.
> Because it is a solid state digital system, it uses a miniscual amout of
>
> electricity which really adds to the redundancy of the unit, because it
> will
> run for hours on a small standby battery. My unit has its own internal
> GPS
> for added redundancy, and when comparing the direction with my regular
> Apollo GPS, I find the readings identical, also the internal GPS seams
> to
> be a fraction of a second quicker with the directional readout. Also,
> doing aerobatics doesn't affect it at all.
> Finally I am free of failing vacuum pumps and super expensive electric
> gyros
> that still tumble and need frequent overhauls.
> As a test pilot for TruTrak and RV8 builder,pilot, I can be of
> assistance .
> Dick Martin
> RV8 N233M
> the fast one
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh
> (05
>> August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
>> product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI
> worked.
>> The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go to the
>> aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
>>
>> JD
>>
>>
> http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-486c-4a8
> 9-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
>>
>>
>>>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
>>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>>To:
>>>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>>>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello All,
>>>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm
> thinking
>>>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be
> used
>>>for IFR.
>>>Thanks,
>>>Paul Richardson
>>>RV-6A 106RV
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1197 (20050818) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joseph Larson <jpl(at)showpage.org> |
I'm still getting back to building after taking nearly 4 years off to
move and build the workshop / garage. I'm having trouble remembering
some stuff, so I thought I'd see if folks could toggle some memories.
I'm riveting ribs to the main wing spars. The outboard ribs get
riveted with both the leading edge and main ribs together. If I'm
reading the plans properly, Vans recommends blind rivets for most of
these ribs, but AN470s for the tipmost 2 ribs.
First off, can anyone comment -- did I read the plans correctly?
Next, any suggestions on how I'm supposed to buck those AN470s out
near the tips without pulling the wings off the jigs? Right now, the
wing jig posts occlude the end of the wings, so I can't reach my hand
in through the lightening holes in the tip ribs.
Is there any good reason why I shouldn't just use pulled rivets for
all the ribs?
---
On a separate note -- my rivet gun is working great now. Per
suggestions from you folks, I poured a bunch of oil into it. I
poured the oil in via the air inlet, but I think I could have put
some in through the tip as well. I let the oil sit a few days, and
it didn't do much. But after several minutes of running air through
the gun, suddenly it started firing properly again. So something got
properly lubricated, and now it's a happy little gun again.
So thanks for the suggestions. I didn't have to ship the gun back to
Avery to get it working. But I'll also point out that even though
I've had the gun for nearly 10 years, Avery offered to clean it up
and get it working for me, free of charge. That's amazing service!
-Joe
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3 autolearn=unavailable |
version=3.0.3
John, how is the antenna bent. Is it bent so that the radiating element is
at a 45 degree angle perpendicular to the wingtip, so the narrow end is
attached to the top of the wingtip? Or is it bent parallel to the wingtip,
with the long edge of the radiating element attached to the top of the
wingtip?
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying 650+ hours, F1 under const.
On 8/24/05, John Huft wrote:
>
>
> I think that is the way called out in the instructions. The key is to
> get as much vertical as you can for the com. Luckily, our RV wings are
> thick enough to allow quite a bit.
>
> John
>
>
> Marty wrote:
>
> >
> >John,
> >I'm not familiar with the Archer Comm antenna, other than the fact
> >that it is mounted in the wingtip, is the installation you describe
> >standard for one, or is this a modified installation?
> >
> >Marty in Indiana
> >RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
> >
> >
> >
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> >>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
> >>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:54 PM
> >>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearnunavailable
> >>version3.0.3
> >>
> >>
> >>I have one of the Archer style com antennas in the wingtip of my RV8.
> >>It
> >>is my only com antenna, connected to a KX-155, my only com. I have
> >>the
> >>same type antenna in the other wingtip for the nav side.
> >>
> >>The nav antenna lays flat in the bottom of the wingtip. The com
> >>antenna
> >>is at a 45 or so degree angle in the wingtip. The bottom (long) side
> >>of
> >>the antenna is bonded to the bottom of the wingtip, where it will
> >>make a
> >>good contact with the bottom wing skin when the wingtip is screwed
> >>on.
> >>The top side is bonded to the upper inside of the wingtip.
> >>
> >>It should be that the signal received is .707 (cosine of 45 degrees)
> >>of
> >>what a vertical antenna would receive. The power reduction would then
> >>be
> >>10log(.707) or 1.5 dB. This is not much on paper.
> >>
> >>In the air, I just can't tell the difference between my RV8 and my
> >>Cessna. The radio works just fine. I can talk to other airplanes 100
> >>miles away. I can hear ATIS long before I contact the tower, even at
> >>fairly low altitudes. I have not had a tower complain about it. I
> >>have
> >>not been able to detect any directional problems, even though I have
> >>seen that reported on these email lists.
> >>
> >>John Huft
> >>
> >>
> >>Bob J wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>>For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think
> >>>
> >>>
> >>there
> >>
> >>
> >>>could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get
> >>>
> >>>
> >>as much
> >>
> >>
> >>>vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but
> >>>
> >>>
> >>haven't yet
> >>
> >>
> >>>installed it.
> >>>
> >>>Regards,
> >>>Bob Japundza
> >>>RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com |
I've been flying the ADI for several months. It is an incredible piece
of equipment and should be an addition to every RV panel. Gone are the
days of turn and bank or expensive electronic DGs! It is very easy to
fly and very sensitive the aircrafts movements. Ive never seen it
show nose up when Ive been descending (that would be just wrong!)what
ever artical indicated that was incorrect. In many cases it has been
more sensitive and responsive than my EFIS.
Get one and enjoy it, whether as a primary or a necessary backup
indicator for IFR.
David Schaefer
RV-6A N143DS "Geek One"
www.n142ds.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 10:30 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Dick,
>
> I too am considering the ADI for primary attitude indicator. I saw
> it at
> Sun'N'Fun and liked it, but I'm curious about it's flyability.
> When you
> get slow, is it still easy to fly the indicator? I see in the article
> that it would indicate nose down with an airspeed warning when slow,
> nose up, and descending. Is it still intuitive enough or does it just
> get weird? Would you fly it IFR as primary?
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dick martin
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
> Dear Paul,
> I have been testing the NEW ADI from trutrak for the last six months
> and
> find it to be a remarkable piece of equipment. It is very easy to see
> and
> is very intuitive. I find it is much easier to maintain level
> flight in
>
> actual IMC than any other steam guages that I have used over the
> years.
> Because it is a solid state digital system, it uses a miniscual
> amout of
>
> electricity which really adds to the redundancy of the unit,
> because it
> will
> run for hours on a small standby battery. My unit has its own
> internalGPS
> for added redundancy, and when comparing the direction with my
> regular
> Apollo GPS, I find the readings identical, also the internal GPS
> seamsto
> be a fraction of a second quicker with the directional readout.
> Also,
> doing aerobatics doesn't affect it at all.
> Finally I am free of failing vacuum pumps and super expensive electric
> gyros
> that still tumble and need frequent overhauls.
> As a test pilot for TruTrak and RV8 builder,pilot, I can be of
> assistance .
> Dick Martin
> RV8 N233M
> the fast one
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
> >
> > Paul,
> >
> > Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh
> (05
> > August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
> > product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI
> worked.
> > The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go
> to the
> > aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
> >
> > JD
> >
> >
> http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-
> 486c-4a8
> 9-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
> >
> >
> >>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
> >>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >>To:
> >>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
> >>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>Hello All,
> >>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm
> thinking
> >>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This
> will be
> used
> >>for IFR.
> >>Thanks,
> >>Paul Richardson
> >>RV-6A 106RV
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
Thanks, Steve. I'll try that tonight.
-Stormy
-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Glasgow <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Extending a glide
I don't know how the numbers got in the post. It should have read Glide Ratio.
Yes of course wind will effect everything. The point was that no flaps gives
you a better ratio than with flaps. Additionally, the 296 will give you a read
out of Glide Ratio.
I have it entered in the lower left corner of the map page. If anyone besides
Stormy is looking for a way to use it on their 296 just go to map, obstacle or
position pages. Push MENU, go to Change Data Fields and enter Glide Ratio in
the position you want. Now you will have a constant reading of Glide Ratio. If
you want to extend the glide you can use this feature to find the best glide
ratio for current conditions.
Steve Glasgow
N123SG RV-8
Cappy's Toy
250 Hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Hi Andrew,
I don't think most people mind you answering questions here. I doubt
anybody confuses it with gross commerciality. One of my questions is
about how it is to fly the instrument when it appears to be indicating
backwards as posed in the quote from the article below.
>"So, does this thing work like an attitude indicator? In cruise it
works pretty much as expected. Andrew Barker of TruTrak tells us he'd be
comfortable flying it in cruise, though it may be difficult to convince
the FAA this device meets the requirements for either a primary attitude
indicator or the backup turn and bank coordinator.
>One peculiarity of the design involves slow flight: When slow, on the
back of the power curve, the nose attitude may be high, but vertical
speed may be low (even negative). The ADI in that situation will show a
nose-low attitude. To warn the pilot of this condition, the ADI includes
a low airspeed warning that will go off when slow."
Here they say that the indicator might be showing nose down when, in
fact the airplane is nose up and that you'd get the airspeed warning to
make you aware of it. I'm just curious about how that actually feels
when you see it. Is it easy to recognize and deal with or do you have to
think hard and act counter intuitively to recover? Is the first reaction
to pull the nose higher and would that make the indicator show more nose
down as you get further behind the power curve? I'm wondering if anybody
has tried this under the hood and if they were able to control the
airplane effectively by reference to the ADI. It may well be a non-issue
if the only time you see a reverse indication is deep into a flare
inches from the runway, so I'm asking people who've flown the instrument
for their input.
Another question that comes to mind, now that we've got you here, is:
You're quoted as saying you'd be comfortable flying it in cruise. The
implication is (and probably out of context) that you (or at least the
FAA) wouldn't be comfortable flying an approach with it. Care to address
that?
Please don't think that I'm being adversarial. I'm just trying to decide
which instrument to buy for the top center spot in my panel and, so far,
the ADI is the first choice if I can satisfy myself that it's the right
one.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
RV-6a flying
RV-6 still plugging away at
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Barker
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
I hope that no one minds my jumping in here to clarify a little on the
ADI...
I do believe that the article may have had a few mistakes, the ADI will
NOT
indicate nose up if you are descending. The ADI will only show nose up,
if
you are in fact climbing. If your airspeed gets to a minimum airspeed,
that
the pilot sets, ADI will begin indicating "A-S"...we added the minimum
airspeed to tell people (especially lower time VFR pilots such as
myself) to
pay attention to the airspeed indicator, as people do sometimes tend to
get
tunnel vision in IMC.
Once again, I hope that no one minds my reply. If anyone has questions,
I
will however be very happy to answer them.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
www.trutrakap.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Dick,
>
> I too am considering the ADI for primary attitude indicator. I saw it
at
> Sun'N'Fun and liked it, but I'm curious about it's flyability. When
you
> get slow, is it still easy to fly the indicator? I see in the article
> that it would indicate nose down with an airspeed warning when slow,
> nose up, and descending. Is it still intuitive enough or does it just
> get weird? Would you fly it IFR as primary?
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dick martin
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
> Dear Paul,
> I have been testing the NEW ADI from trutrak for the last six months
> and
> find it to be a remarkable piece of equipment. It is very easy to see
> and
> is very intuitive. I find it is much easier to maintain level flight
in
>
> actual IMC than any other steam guages that I have used over the
years.
> Because it is a solid state digital system, it uses a miniscual amout
of
>
> electricity which really adds to the redundancy of the unit, because
it
> will
> run for hours on a small standby battery. My unit has its own
internal
> GPS
> for added redundancy, and when comparing the direction with my regular
> Apollo GPS, I find the readings identical, also the internal GPS
seams
> to
> be a fraction of a second quicker with the directional readout.
Also,
> doing aerobatics doesn't affect it at all.
> Finally I am free of failing vacuum pumps and super expensive electric
> gyros
> that still tumble and need frequent overhauls.
> As a test pilot for TruTrak and RV8 builder,pilot, I can be of
> assistance .
> Dick Martin
> RV8 N233M
> the fast one
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh
> (05
>> August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
>> product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI
> worked.
>> The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go to the
>> aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
>>
>> JD
>>
>>
>
http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-486c-4a8
> 9-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
>>
>>
>>>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
>>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>>To:
>>>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>>>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello All,
>>>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm
> thinking
>>>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be
> used
>>>for IFR.
>>>Thanks,
>>>Paul Richardson
>>>RV-6A 106RV
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1197 (20050818) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
David,
You might be right, but I'm used to an attitude indicator showing what
the attitude of the aircraft is, whatever the flight path may be. I
understand that the ADI is a hybrid instrument and shows flight path and
not necessarily attitude. It may well be the future of primary flight
instruments (and in my near future as well).
Let's say for instance that I've managed to get my nose way up while in
poor or non-existent visibility, so high in fact that I stall or mush
the airplane. Now I'm descending like a big dog and (assuming I haven't
spun) the nose is still way up but the ADI is showing nose down and A-S.
Will I be able to easily diagnose and correct my situation? Bear in mind
I was confused enough to stall in the first place. I admit that this is
sort a far fetched scenario, but my curiosity remains.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
dschaefer1(at)kc.rr.com
Subject: Re: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
I've been flying the ADI for several months. It is an incredible piece
of equipment and should be an addition to every RV panel. Gone are the
days of turn and bank or expensive electronic DGs! It is very easy to
fly and very sensitive the aircrafts movements. Ive never seen it
show nose up when Ive been descending (that would be just wrong!)what
ever artical indicated that was incorrect. In many cases it has been
more sensitive and responsive than my EFIS.
Get one and enjoy it, whether as a primary or a necessary backup
indicator for IFR.
David Schaefer
RV-6A N143DS "Geek One"
www.n142ds.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Ed Holyoke <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Date: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 10:30 pm
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Dick,
>
> I too am considering the ADI for primary attitude indicator. I saw
> it at
> Sun'N'Fun and liked it, but I'm curious about it's flyability.
> When you
> get slow, is it still easy to fly the indicator? I see in the article
> that it would indicate nose down with an airspeed warning when slow,
> nose up, and descending. Is it still intuitive enough or does it just
> get weird? Would you fly it IFR as primary?
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Re: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3 |
autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3
autolearn=unavailable version=3.0.3
Well,...
On the one I bought, the long leg is attached to the shield of the coax.
It is attached to the end of the bottom wing skin, so it is in line with
the direction of motion. There is a leg that goes at an angle, and
attaches to another leg, that is parallel to the long leg. It is the
last leg that is bonded to the top of the wing tip. So, just the short,
middle leg is hanging in air, going from the bottom wing skin, to the
inside top of the wingtip.
Clear as mud I bet. A picture would be nice, but would require removal
of the wingtip.
John
Bob J wrote:
>
>John, how is the antenna bent. Is it bent so that the radiating element is
>at a 45 degree angle perpendicular to the wingtip, so the narrow end is
>attached to the top of the wingtip? Or is it bent parallel to the wingtip,
>with the long edge of the radiating element attached to the top of the
>wingtip?
>
>Regards,
>Bob Japundza
>RV-6 flying 650+ hours, F1 under const.
>
>On 8/24/05, John Huft wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I think that is the way called out in the instructions. The key is to
>>get as much vertical as you can for the com. Luckily, our RV wings are
>>thick enough to allow quite a bit.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>Marty wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>John,
>>>I'm not familiar with the Archer Comm antenna, other than the fact
>>>that it is mounted in the wingtip, is the installation you describe
>>>standard for one, or is this a modified installation?
>>>
>>>Marty in Indiana
>>>RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
>>>>server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Huft
>>>>Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 1:54 PM
>>>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>>>Subject: Re: RV-List: SL30 Nav Antenna autolearnunavailable
>>>>version3.0.3
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I have one of the Archer style com antennas in the wingtip of my RV8.
>>>>It
>>>>is my only com antenna, connected to a KX-155, my only com. I have
>>>>the
>>>>same type antenna in the other wingtip for the nav side.
>>>>
>>>>The nav antenna lays flat in the bottom of the wingtip. The com
>>>>antenna
>>>>is at a 45 or so degree angle in the wingtip. The bottom (long) side
>>>>of
>>>>the antenna is bonded to the bottom of the wingtip, where it will
>>>>make a
>>>>good contact with the bottom wing skin when the wingtip is screwed
>>>>on.
>>>>The top side is bonded to the upper inside of the wingtip.
>>>>
>>>>It should be that the signal received is .707 (cosine of 45 degrees)
>>>>of
>>>>what a vertical antenna would receive. The power reduction would then
>>>>be
>>>>10log(.707) or 1.5 dB. This is not much on paper.
>>>>
>>>>In the air, I just can't tell the difference between my RV8 and my
>>>>Cessna. The radio works just fine. I can talk to other airplanes 100
>>>>miles away. I can hear ATIS long before I contact the tower, even at
>>>>fairly low altitudes. I have not had a tower complain about it. I
>>>>have
>>>>not been able to detect any directional problems, even though I have
>>>>seen that reported on these email lists.
>>>>
>>>>John Huft
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Bob J wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>For those flying, how well do the wingtip com antennas work? I think
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>there
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>could be some installation issues for some if they didn't try to get
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>as much
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>vertical polarization as possible. I have one for the rocket but
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>haven't yet
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>installed it.
>>>>>
>>>>>Regards,
>>>>>Bob Japundza
>>>>>RV-6 flying 650+hours F1 under const.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Bob Archer antenna pix. was SL30 Nav Antenna |
Well,...
Clear as mud I bet. A picture would be nice, but would require removal
of the wingtip.
John
I just posted some pix of my not yet flying installation in a new style
wingtip to photoshare. They'll probably show up in a couple of days.
I didn't post pix of the nav antenna. The nav antenna does require any
vertical rise and so just lays flat in the tip.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Last week I posted that my nose gear was pulsing forward and back about 1/2"
during flight. Changing RPM would aggravate it. I could not see where
balancing the fairing would do any good since it is attached in two places
however I'm pleased(and surprised) to report that after putting 9oz of
weight in the front of the fairing all pulsations are gone regardless of
RPM. I will do the mains now.
John
RV6A O-320 Hartzel
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
Dear Ed,
I have flown the ADI at least 4 or 5 hours in actual IMC.and I find it much
easier to fly than my artificial horizon that I left in the airplane until I
got more used to the ADI.. The ADI is very intuitive. You can't usually
see it in the pictures, but if you look at one, you will notice that in the
center of the instrument is a white dot. When the red dot on the movable
portion of the inst is co vering the white dot completely, you are perfectly
level. As soon as you see any portion of the white dot, you are climbing or
diving ( the horizontal bar of course is still their and usuable also) so
you have a double indication. I find that by watching the dot, I can avoid
the usual 50 to 100 ft up or down that usually isn't noticiblle with a
converntional until you are off your altitude.
Also, I really like the warning arrows that flash and point the correct
direction to roll whn the bank angle exceeds 30 degrees.
If you like, I will send you a tech sheet, that completely describes the
instrument function.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> Dick,
>
> I too am considering the ADI for primary attitude indicator. I saw it at
> Sun'N'Fun and liked it, but I'm curious about it's flyability. When you
> get slow, is it still easy to fly the indicator? I see in the article
> that it would indicate nose down with an airspeed warning when slow,
> nose up, and descending. Is it still intuitive enough or does it just
> get weird? Would you fly it IFR as primary?
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dick martin
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
> Dear Paul,
> I have been testing the NEW ADI from trutrak for the last six months
> and
> find it to be a remarkable piece of equipment. It is very easy to see
> and
> is very intuitive. I find it is much easier to maintain level flight in
>
> actual IMC than any other steam guages that I have used over the years.
> Because it is a solid state digital system, it uses a miniscual amout of
>
> electricity which really adds to the redundancy of the unit, because it
> will
> run for hours on a small standby battery. My unit has its own internal
> GPS
> for added redundancy, and when comparing the direction with my regular
> Apollo GPS, I find the readings identical, also the internal GPS seams
> to
> be a fraction of a second quicker with the directional readout. Also,
> doing aerobatics doesn't affect it at all.
> Finally I am free of failing vacuum pumps and super expensive electric
> gyros
> that still tumble and need frequent overhauls.
> As a test pilot for TruTrak and RV8 builder,pilot, I can be of
> assistance .
> Dick Martin
> RV8 N233M
> the fast one
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J DAVID NEWSUM" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com>
> To:
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
>
>>
>> Paul,
>>
>> Aero-news.net did a short write up on the TruTrak ADI during Oshkosh
> (05
>> August 2005). They gave it a thumbs up for being an innovative new
>> product. They write up was technically informative on how the ADI
> worked.
>> The link below should get you to the write up. If not just go to the
>> aero-news.net web site and search on Trutrak ADI.
>>
>> JD
>>
>>
> http://www.aero-news.net/news/sport.cfm?ContentBlockID=275ba48c-486c-4a8
> 9-b91f-3ef09320ac21&Dynamic=1
>>
>>
>>>From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
>>>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>>To:
>>>Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>>>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 16:59:40 -0500
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Hello All,
>>>Does anyone have feedback to share regarding the Trutrak ADI? I'm
> thinking
>>>of using one to replace my worn out attitude indicator. This will be
> used
>>>for IFR.
>>>Thanks,
>>>Paul Richardson
>>>RV-6A 106RV
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob W M Shipley" <rob(at)robsglass.com> |
| Subject: | Extending a glide |
Mark Phillips wrote
"I'd like to toss the wind into this discussion, if I may- let's not forget
that runway selected for landing usually has the wind trying to blow you
AWAY
from it, which is one reason I always like to make
steeper-than-standard-glide-slope approaches. (lots in archives about high
sink
rate of RVs (-9s & -10s
excluded?) with power off vs. some power on final)
Recent post regarding diving toward threshold begs this question: Assuming
no hazardous ground obstructions between threshold and current position, is
it
wise to dive closer to the ground to gain airspeed (engine out) to possibly
reduce effects of wind? I know this sounds kinda scary, but if it happened
to
me, I'd want every advantage I could get to make the runway if no better
alternatives available...
Just theorizing here & never heard it discussed. What say y'all?"
*****
A good friend who flies gliders did exactly this when short of his desired
touchdown in a Schweitzer. He dove for the ground and used ground effect to
extend his glide. Since he was low enough to be out of sight for a few
minutes this created consternation amongst the onlookers until he popped up
about 75yds from the numbers. Big sighs of relief! I suspect this
technique might be more useful with the RV9s wing than for those with a
Hershey bar. Perhaps if you have a really long runway cautious testing
might tell you if this might be of any utility in an emergency.
Good luck to our test pilots.
Rob
Rob W M Shipley
N919RV (res) Fuselage .....still!
La Mesa, CA. (next to San Diego)
--
Try www.SPAMfighter.com for free now!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
On 19:49:35 2005-08-24 "Rob W M Shipley" wrote:
> A good friend who flies gliders did exactly this when short of his
> desired touchdown in a Schweitzer. He dove for the ground and used
> ground effect to extend his glide. Since he was low enough to be out
> of sight for a few minutes this created consternation amongst the
> onlookers until he popped up about 75yds from the numbers. Big sighs
> of relief! I suspect this technique might be more useful with the
> RV9s wing than for those with a Hershey bar. Perhaps if you have a
> really long runway cautious testing might tell you if this might be
> of any utility in an emergency. Good luck to our test pilots.
Keep in mind that ground effect only starts to have any significant effect
when you're half a wingspan or less from the ground. Your friend in his
Schweitzer could probably feel the ground effect and yet still clear power
lines. In an RV, you may be lucky to clear the fence at the edge of the
airport. Something to keep in mind... Catching the gear on the top of the
fence may be worse than planning to land out in an adjacent field instead.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Andrew,
Do you have an Operator Manual for the ADI? I did not find the usual link on the
website.
I like what I see and like the positive comments but I would like to understand
the product a little
better. I am currently deciding on instruments and the ADI is in the mix.
Doug Gray
>>I hope that no one minds my jumping in here to clarify a little on the
>>ADI...
>>...
>>Once again, I hope that no one minds my reply. If anyone has questions, I
>>will however be very happy to answer them.
>>
>>Andrew Barker
>>General Manager
>>TruTrak Flight Systems
>>PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
>>Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
>>www.trutrakap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fairing Balance |
>Balancing fairings seems pretty akin to voodoo for me, but it works and
>I am a strong believer in doing it.
Balance "fairings" or "wheel pants" ??
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
Yes sir. Wheel Pants.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Extending a glide |
> Never Turn back to the runway on an engine failure after take-off.
I have practiced this many times, I think its a bit of a stretch to say
"never." Actually, I religiously practice 1 hour a month (practicing engine
quit scenarios.) At idle power I can get turned around and back on the
runway if I have 800ft of altitude. I dare to say that I could probably be
lower if I had AOA. I think in a real-world situation the minimum would be
closer to 1500 ft. because practicing for it is completely different than
having the engine quit unexpectedly.
-------------------------------------------------------
Forget the "ifs".
Heed Doug's advice and you won't go wrong.
"Never" is no stretch.
FWIW....
800 feet is pattern altitude and down wind for landing.
At 1500 feet I'm in the next county. ;-)
bob - over a half century of flight
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tony Marshall" <tony(at)lambros.com> |
Since Van's Homecoming has been cancelled this year, is anyone interested in
a fly-in somewhere in the NW in Sep or Oct? We have a great little airport
on Flathead Lake in NW Montana, Polson 8S1. It is possible we could host
something, unless someone has a better idea. We just held our 7th annual
fly-in last Sat.....great success.
Tony Marshall
RV6
Polson, MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/25/05 12:00:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
Now you will have a constant reading of Glide Ratio.
If you want to extend the glide you can use this feature to find the best
glide
ratio for current conditions.
Steve & all on this thread,
An Angle of Attack will ALWAYS show the correct AOA for best glide if set up
properly. If the AOA you chose has "settable" indications (LED's) they can be
setup as you desire, even correct for up to 6 flap settings, not what the
designer of the system wanted you to see. Then you can compare apples and apples
by checking the best glide, corrected for all variances,
Any questions or comments reply off list if desired.
Elbie
EM Aviation, LLC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
When one is going to "nail the numbers" and managing that glide angle
> "with prop, flaps, bank angle and speeds" is one spending adequate time
> looking for other traffic, wind changes, or other hazards or does one
> have tunnel vision for nailing the numbers??
Its easy with a Poor Mans "Heads Up Display" of AOA. Correct AOA displayed on
windscreen right in line of vision.
Elbie
EM Aviation
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com> |
This is going to be a bit wordy...but stick with me. This is the best
description that I can come up with for the ADI...sorry if it sounds like a
sales pitch, I will do my very best to keep it objective and provide good
information about the unit.
The pitch display is, as everyone is learning, very different from a
convention attitude gyro. For short term or immediate movement of the nose
up or down, the ADI responds and is flown like any other gyroscopic pitch
indicator. The main difference is that after the display has moved in
response to an attitude change the deflection is sustained by the resulting
vertical speed. This presentation is proving to be much better than the
conventional attitude display, because holding altitude and maintaining
stable climbs and descents is much easier with the vertical speed display.
It is true, that when an aircraft approaches a stall, it can fly at an ever
increasing angle of attach when the vertical speed indicates zero. For this
reason we have included the airspeed warning in the form of the letters
"A-S" flashing in the DG display. This is telling the pilot to cross check
with the airspeed indicator. For stall prevention airspeed is the best
information short of angle of attack, better even than attitude. If one
wants to hold altitude, simply put the reference airplane on the horizon,
the reference airplane does not have to be adjusted up or down to compensate
for the angle that the fuselage is flying at a given airspeed. We recommend
that the airspeed be set so that it will begin flashing at or just below the
best rate of climb speed (which also happens to be the best glide speed), so
as to give ample warning of an approaching stall and to aid in emergencies
situations.
The roll portion is driven similarly to the pictorial Turn & Bank. The only
difference being that it shows bank angle instead of turn rate. The
advantage of this is that the instrument uses only instantaneous data. The
display cannot drift in shallow turns, and accumulate error as is possible
with conventional AHRS systems. It shows bank angles of up to +/- 45
degrees. If the bank angle exceeds +/- 30 degrees, flashing red arrows
point in the direction that the stick needs to be moved to level the
aircraft. This was done, because in IMC the objective to stay level or in
shallow banks.
The direction portion of the ADI is centered just below the rotating horizon
mask. We have always maintained that GPS track is the way to fly, and this
instrument is no different. The track DG, is not simply just another
display of the track from your GPS, it is a gyroscopically enhanced track.
This means that it functions exactly like a standard DG, except it is
showing track instead of heading. In the event of the loss of GPS signal,
the attitude portion of the ADI is not affected. We do not use the track
information as part of the attitude solution. It is simply added to the
unit to give it more functionality.
The mounting of the ADI is not extremely critical as with convention gyros
and AHRS systems. As long as the amount of tilt is no more than 10 degrees
in any direction the ADI will perform equally well. ADI only uses two rate
gyros and a pressure transducer, as opposed to 3 rate gyros, 3
accelerometers, and 2 pressure transducers in standard AHRS systems. The
concept of this instrument is so unique that a patent was received in only 4
months, the patent examiner found no similar prior art.
ADI also comes standard with internal lighting. Built in GPS for the DG and
a backup battery are options.
As to the 2" ADI, we are working on it and are shooting for the first of the
year. ADI pilot will be around the same time as well.
My RV-4 project doesn't get much time right now, my father and I are
building a hangar at a local airport, and it will go there, so we can get
things going a little more.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
www.trutrakap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
Okay Guys and Gals,
I know someone out there has researched cowl flaps for RV's...
Has anyone had the thought of installing cowl flaps in the engine cowling for cooling
in an RV with fuel injection?
Darrell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net> |
"If one wants to hold altitude, simply put the reference airplane on the horizon,
the reference airplane does not have to be adjusted up or down to compensate
for the angle that the fuselage is flying at a given airspeed."
Andrew,
Thanks for the detailed response. Your instrument sounds like it responds similarly
to an EFIS flight path marker in the vertical meridian, whereas wherever
you put the indicator, that's where it will go. Is this true?
Also, I have plans on getting your DigiFlight-IIVSGV for vertical guidance on approaches.
Your TruTrak ADI looks like it may be a good artifical horizon backup
to the EFIS, but is there a way that it can be interfaced with the IIVSGV
for AP control, such as with a toggle switch? Maybe it is overkill, but as long
as it is in the panel, is there a way to have the servos work off of either
AP?
Thanks,
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
On 25 Aug 2005, at 12:50, EMAproducts(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 8/25/05 12:00:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
> Now you will have a constant reading of Glide Ratio.
> If you want to extend the glide you can use this feature to find
> the best
> glide
> ratio for current conditions.
> Steve & all on this thread,
>
> An Angle of Attack will ALWAYS show the correct AOA for best glide
> if set up
> properly. If the AOA you chose has "settable" indications (LED's)
> they can be
> setup as you desire, even correct for up to 6 flap settings, not
> what the
> designer of the system wanted you to see. Then you can compare
> apples and apples
> by checking the best glide, corrected for all variances,
> Any questions or comments reply off list if desired.
> Elbie
> EM Aviation, LLC
The speed and angle of attack needed to cover the most ground
distance for a given loss of altitude will vary with flap angle,
wind, engine/prop condition (i.e. engine running at idle, or engine
stopped, prop windmilling with prop control forward, or engine
stopped, prop windmilling with prop control aft, or engine stopped
with zero rpm). I agree that knowing the correct AOA for best glide
with prop windmilling and with prop stopped would be very useful.
I'm betting not one in one hundred flyers with an AOA system have
done the flight testing to determine best glide AOA in both those
conditions.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com> |
Mark, that is basically correct. Put the reference airplane where you want
the airplane to go.
ADI would be a great backup to an EFIS. I personally am all about backups,
but I am not too sure that you would need two autopilots in one aircraft.
However, it is possible that you could control the servos from a DII, or an
ADI pilot. You would need a disconnect for the servo lines, as two
autopilots trying to drive one set of servos makes for blown up servos. I
have had others consider multiple programmer installations, but have yet to
have one installed (other than in our RV-9A, where we have 4 autopilots).
The biggest issue with being able to drive the servos from either unit is
cost. The ADI is currently $1095, the ADI Pilot II (roll and pitch axis
autopilot incorporated into ADI) will add $2900. Buy a 396 instead of a
second autopilot, you will get much more use out of it. :-)
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
www.trutrakap.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> "If one wants to hold altitude, simply put the reference airplane on the
> horizon,
> the reference airplane does not have to be adjusted up or down to
> compensate
> for the angle that the fuselage is flying at a given airspeed."
>
> Andrew,
> Thanks for the detailed response. Your instrument sounds like it responds
> similarly to an EFIS flight path marker in the vertical meridian, whereas
> wherever you put the indicator, that's where it will go. Is this true?
>
> Also, I have plans on getting your DigiFlight-IIVSGV for vertical guidance
> on approaches. Your TruTrak ADI looks like it may be a good artifical
> horizon backup to the EFIS, but is there a way that it can be interfaced
> with the IIVSGV for AP control, such as with a toggle switch? Maybe it is
> overkill, but as long as it is in the panel, is there a way to have the
> servos work off of either AP?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1197 (20050818) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | BIG Rivet Squeezer on Ebay |
I have something similar to this made by Chicago Pneumatic with the same 9
inch reach. I use it constantly. Great for bench work and dimpling. I put a
cable type foot pedal on mine.
Quite a good deal at $51.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4570259393&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "REHughes" <hawk(at)digisys.net> |
Andrew,
What do the white "pitch" index lines (two above the horizon line, two
below) on the ADI represent?
Are they simply a VSI scalar (perhaps the first pitch line is 500 fpm, the
second 1000 fpm) or is there some relationship to Flight Path Angle in
degrees at some arbitrary TAS.
Hawkeye Hughes
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> This is going to be a bit wordy...but stick with me. This is the best
> description that I can come up with for the ADI...sorry if it sounds like
> a
> sales pitch, I will do my very best to keep it objective and provide good
> information about the unit.
>
> The pitch display is, as everyone is learning, very different from a
> convention attitude gyro. For short term or immediate movement of the
> nose
> up or down, the ADI responds and is flown like any other gyroscopic pitch
> indicator. The main difference is that after the display has moved in
> response to an attitude change the deflection is sustained by the
> resulting
> vertical speed. This presentation is proving to be much better than the
> conventional attitude display, because holding altitude and maintaining
> stable climbs and descents is much easier with the vertical speed display.
> It is true, that when an aircraft approaches a stall, it can fly at an
> ever
> increasing angle of attach when the vertical speed indicates zero. For
> this
> reason we have included the airspeed warning in the form of the letters
> "A-S" flashing in the DG display. This is telling the pilot to cross
> check
> with the airspeed indicator. For stall prevention airspeed is the best
> information short of angle of attack, better even than attitude. If one
> wants to hold altitude, simply put the reference airplane on the horizon,
> the reference airplane does not have to be adjusted up or down to
> compensate
> for the angle that the fuselage is flying at a given airspeed. We
> recommend
> that the airspeed be set so that it will begin flashing at or just below
> the
> best rate of climb speed (which also happens to be the best glide speed),
> so
> as to give ample warning of an approaching stall and to aid in emergencies
> situations.
>
> The roll portion is driven similarly to the pictorial Turn & Bank. The
> only
> difference being that it shows bank angle instead of turn rate. The
> advantage of this is that the instrument uses only instantaneous data.
> The
> display cannot drift in shallow turns, and accumulate error as is possible
> with conventional AHRS systems. It shows bank angles of up to +/- 45
> degrees. If the bank angle exceeds +/- 30 degrees, flashing red arrows
> point in the direction that the stick needs to be moved to level the
> aircraft. This was done, because in IMC the objective to stay level or in
> shallow banks.
>
> The direction portion of the ADI is centered just below the rotating
> horizon
> mask. We have always maintained that GPS track is the way to fly, and
> this
> instrument is no different. The track DG, is not simply just another
> display of the track from your GPS, it is a gyroscopically enhanced track.
> This means that it functions exactly like a standard DG, except it is
> showing track instead of heading. In the event of the loss of GPS signal,
> the attitude portion of the ADI is not affected. We do not use the track
> information as part of the attitude solution. It is simply added to the
> unit to give it more functionality.
>
> The mounting of the ADI is not extremely critical as with convention gyros
> and AHRS systems. As long as the amount of tilt is no more than 10
> degrees
> in any direction the ADI will perform equally well. ADI only uses two
> rate
> gyros and a pressure transducer, as opposed to 3 rate gyros, 3
> accelerometers, and 2 pressure transducers in standard AHRS systems. The
> concept of this instrument is so unique that a patent was received in only
> 4
> months, the patent examiner found no similar prior art.
>
> ADI also comes standard with internal lighting. Built in GPS for the DG
> and
> a backup battery are options.
>
> As to the 2" ADI, we are working on it and are shooting for the first of
> the
> year. ADI pilot will be around the same time as well.
>
> My RV-4 project doesn't get much time right now, my father and I are
> building a hangar at a local airport, and it will go there, so we can get
> things going a little more.
>
> Andrew Barker
> General Manager
> TruTrak Flight Systems
> PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
> Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
> www.trutrakap.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
Darrel,
I have 1175 hours in my RV8 equiped with an IO-390 engine and a James cowl &
Plenum. I have never been able to overheat this engine, long climbs, air
races at 100%power etc. If anything it over cools and I have made up a set
of smaller size inlets for it for winter flying etc. I don't think that
cowl flaps are the answer. Also, my airplane goes quite a bit faster (about
10 mph) due to the cowl and plenum.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Darrell Reiley" <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cowl Flap
>
> Okay Guys and Gals,
>
> I know someone out there has researched cowl flaps for RV's...
>
> Has anyone had the thought of installing cowl flaps in the engine cowling
> for cooling in an RV with fuel injection?
>
> Darrell
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com |
Thanks, I already ordered and paid for it. Just anxious as usual.
Regards,
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John D. Heath" <altoq(at)cebridge.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: AeroElectric-List: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator |
Flap
----- Original Message -----
From: "John D. Heath" <altoq(at)cebridge.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Thermostatically Controlled Radiator Flap
> --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "John D. Heath"
>
>
>
> Does anyone have a better idea on how to implement this?
>
>
> This might not be THE BETTER IDEA but, Here are some related points of
> food
> for thought.
>
> Besides the VW Bug cooling thermostat, many European autos use the same
> type
> of device in the air cleaner to control intake air temperature during cold
> weather starting. Remember all these devices react to air temperature.
>
> Some Radiator fan switches are multi-stage (VW-AUDI has 3 stage) and they
> sense water temperature.
>
> What is commonly called anti-freeze is in reality also anti-boil. A 50/50
> mixture of anti-freeze elevates the boiling point to ~248 degrees
> Fahrenheit. The radiator cap elevates the pressure as much as 15psi or
> more
> on late model autos. The boiling point of the coolant raises 2 degrees per
> pound of cap pressure. All of this is more or less common knowledge, right
> off the back of the anti-freeze jug. One lesser known fact is that the
> thermostat and its bypass combine to present a roughly calibrated
> restriction to coolant flow that allows the water pump to pressurize the
> block and heads to an even higher level. This eliminates steam pockets in
> the head and insures coolant flow distribution. It would not be a good
> idea
> to eliminate these features in search of THE BETTER IDEA.
>
> Coolant flow might be better controlled if a thermostat that has a
> positive
> bypass control valve were used.
>
> I hope some of this helps,
> John D.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
On 08/25 8:34, dick martin wrote:
> I have 1175 hours in my RV8 equiped with an IO-390 engine and a James cowl &
> Plenum. I have never been able to overheat this engine, long climbs, air
> races at 100%power etc. If anything it over cools and I have made up a set
> of smaller size inlets for it for winter flying etc. I don't think that
> cowl flaps are the answer. Also, my airplane goes quite a bit faster (about
> 10 mph) due to the cowl and plenum.
What oil cooler do you have?
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying, HA!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mark" <2eyedocs(at)comcast.net> |
"Buy a 396 instead of a second autopilot, you will get much more use out of it.
:-)"
Thanks Andrew. I was just thinking of the capabilities of your ADI as a horizon
backup instead of another EFIS or steam gauges. I would suppose your ADI would
function fine as just a backup w/out the AP.
Mark
P.S. Those 396's do look pretty cool!
----- Original Message -----
From: Andrew Barker
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 5:19 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
Mark, that is basically correct. Put the reference airplane where you want
the airplane to go.
ADI would be a great backup to an EFIS. I personally am all about backups,
but I am not too sure that you would need two autopilots in one aircraft.
However, it is possible that you could control the servos from a DII, or an
ADI pilot. You would need a disconnect for the servo lines, as two
autopilots trying to drive one set of servos makes for blown up servos. I
have had others consider multiple programmer installations, but have yet to
have one installed (other than in our RV-9A, where we have 4 autopilots).
The biggest issue with being able to drive the servos from either unit is
cost. The ADI is currently $1095, the ADI Pilot II (roll and pitch axis
autopilot incorporated into ADI) will add $2900. Buy a 396 instead of a
second autopilot, you will get much more use out of it. :-)
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
www.trutrakap.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark & Kelly" <eyedocs1(at)swbell.net>
To:
Subject: Re: RV-List: Trutrak ADI
>
> "If one wants to hold altitude, simply put the reference airplane on the
> horizon,
> the reference airplane does not have to be adjusted up or down to
> compensate
> for the angle that the fuselage is flying at a given airspeed."
>
> Andrew,
> Thanks for the detailed response. Your instrument sounds like it responds
> similarly to an EFIS flight path marker in the vertical meridian, whereas
> wherever you put the indicator, that's where it will go. Is this true?
>
> Also, I have plans on getting your DigiFlight-IIVSGV for vertical guidance
> on approaches. Your TruTrak ADI looks like it may be a good artifical
> horizon backup to the EFIS, but is there a way that it can be interfaced
> with the IIVSGV for AP control, such as with a toggle switch? Maybe it is
> overkill, but as long as it is in the panel, is there a way to have the
> servos work off of either AP?
> Thanks,
> Mark
>
>
> __________ NOD32 1.1197 (20050818) Information __________
>
> This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system.
> http://www.eset.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
Andrew,
Thanks for the additional information but I must be a bit slow on the uptake.
I still do not
understand how the display moves in response to pitch and roll. A few photos in
different attitudes
might help.
Am I correct in understanding that in Roll - the little airplane remains stationary
and only the
horizon line rotates left/right? While for Pitch - only the little airplane moves
up for pitch up
and down for a pitch down, while the horizon line remains stationary.
I am confused by your statement that "The roll portion is driven similarly to the
pictorial Turn &
Bank." I am not familiar with this display but normal T&B has the little airplane
rolling to signify
the turn. I suspect now that your 'pictorial T&B' has the background moving against
a stationary
little airplane.
If the GPS input is lost what happenns to the numeric display of track?
I note LED (or perhaps VF) displays, are these high intensity and how well do they
perform in direct
sunlight?
Will the 'ADI pilot' be any deeper (more room required behind the panel) than the
ADI?
Thanks,
Doug Gray
Andrew Barker wrote:
>
> The pitch display is, as everyone is learning, very different from a
> convention attitude gyro. For short term or immediate movement of the nose
> up or down, the ADI responds and is flown like any other gyroscopic pitch
> indicator.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
For those who don't follow Aero News Net, take a look at this:
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=29e2f893-7c0b-4033-9840-f70e6769d2f8&
Briefly, the new Epic 6 pax turboprop "homebuilt" has hit a snag when
the FAA refused to license a customers airplane. They felt it did not
meet the 51% rule.
Very interesting, with lots of implications for the rest of us.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Andrew Barker" <Andrew(at)trutrakap.com> |
Let's see if I can't get all of the answers in one message.
> Am I correct in understanding that in Roll - the little airplane remains
> stationary and only the
> horizon line rotates left/right? While for Pitch - only the little
> airplane moves up for pitch up
> and down for a pitch down, while the horizon line remains stationary.
Yes, that is correct. I am going to see if I can't get a few action
pictures and get them out today.
> I suspect now that your 'pictorial T&B' has the background moving against
> a stationary
> little airplane.
Correct once again.
> If the GPS input is lost what happenns to the numeric display of track?
If the GPS signal is lost, the track display goes away, and you are left
with dashes indicating that the unit is powered up, but no GPS signal is
present. The attitude portion is not affected.
> I note LED (or perhaps VF) displays, are these high intensity and how well
> do they perform in direct
> sunlight?
The LED display is custom built, and performs very well in direct sunlight.
The unit has built in lighting, and wants to be hooked into the dimmer
circuit.
> Will the 'ADI pilot' be any deeper (more room required behind the panel)
> than the ADI?
The ADI pilot will not be any deeper, the dimensions for ADI and ADI Pilot
are 3.45" x 3.45" x 4.6"
> What do the white "pitch" index lines (two above the horizon line, two
> below) on the ADI represent?
> Are they simply a VSI scalar (perhaps the first pitch line is 500 fpm, the
> second 1000 fpm)...
You are correct, first line is 500 fpm, and second is 1000 fpm.
> I was just thinking of the capabilities of your ADI as a horizon backup
> instead of another EFIS or steam
> gauges. I would suppose your ADI would function fine as just a backup
> w/out the AP.
This is also correct, ADI is a wonderful backup with or without the
autopilot.
Andrew Barker
General Manager
TruTrak Flight Systems
PH: 479-751-0250 Ext.222
Toll Free: 1-866-TruTrak
www.trutrakap.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J.T. Helms" <jhelms(at)i1.net> |
| Subject: | From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
Luckily, they specifically seemed to want to avoid coming down hard on
smaller homebuilt aircraft builder assist by creating a new definition
("complex amateur built planes").
I think they specifically wanted to stop Epic without saying it in so many
words while still allowing builders assist centers to help small
homebuilders.
JT
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point
Subject: RV-List: From Aero News Net- 51% rule
For those who don't follow Aero News Net, take a look at this:
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=29e2f893-7c0b-4033-9840-f7
0e6769d2f8&
Briefly, the new Epic 6 pax turboprop "homebuilt" has hit a snag when the
FAA refused to license a customers airplane. They felt it did not meet the
51% rule.
Very interesting, with lots of implications for the rest of us.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | CustomACProp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Barnstormer MT propeller |
Hi All,
There is an MTV-12-B/180-17 3 blade MT Propeller for sale on Barnstormer.
This propeller will bolt onto any standard SAE2 propeller flange with 1/2"
diameter bolts.
However, the 180-17 blade is designed for an aircraft with a 130 mph cruise
speed.
MT Propeller custom designs their propellers for the engine, airframe and
expected performance.
For the RV series aircraft with a Lyc. 360 engine, you'll want the MTV-12-B
propeller with the 183-59b blades.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
In a message dated 8/26/05 12:03:19 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com writes:
I agree that knowing the correct AOA for best glide
with prop windmilling and with prop stopped would be very useful.
I'm betting not one in one hundred flyers with an AOA system have
done the flight testing to determine best glide AOA in both those
conditions.
As always sadly, people are more interested in 1 mph gain in speed than
safety. They will make dozens of flights trying to get that elusive small gain
in
speed that might someday save enough fuel to pay for one of the test flights.
Speed seems to be the #1 bragging right, Safety doesn't even make the list.
Safety should always be paramount in aviation, however when it comes to
spending the $$ it comes in last for the average homebuilder.
Elbie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
Why? Aren't you building your own aircraft or are you farming our all
the tasks to others?
Big difference between just pluncking down the cash and having someone
else do all the work and actually doing each type of task yourself.
Doesn't mean you have the set all 15,000 (?) rivits yourself, but you
should at least have set enough to be competent at it and be able to
recognize an acceptable rivit and an unacceptable one. And so on.
Finn
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>For those who don't follow Aero News Net, take a look at this:
>
>http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=29e2f893-7c0b-4033-9840-f70e6769d2f8&
>
>Briefly, the new Epic 6 pax turboprop "homebuilt" has hit a snag when
>the FAA refused to license a customers airplane. They felt it did not
>meet the 51% rule.
>
>Very interesting, with lots of implications for the rest of us.
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6
>Milwaukee
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Hey, I'm sure the Dentist, owner of the EPIC, wrote lots of high dollar
checks. Everyone knows that's 50% of the painful experience of building
an experimental aircraft. Given another 1% credit for picking out the
interior colors, that's 51% right there--no problem. FAA opinion may
vary.
Chuck
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
>Has anyone had the thought of installing cowl flaps in the engine cowling
>for cooling in an RV with fuel injection?
I have an RV 6 with fuel injection. No need for additional cooling. Now
if cowl flaps added additional heating I might be interested.
In winter I have the oil cooler 90% blocked off, in the summer it is about
40%. Now cowl flaps maybe useful if you reduced the cowl intake by about
50% (a rough guess).
There is considerable info and debate in the achieves on this subject.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Exit air smoothing |
Listers:
I'm building a -6a, but trying to incorporate as many new mods as possible
from the -7a's. I understand there is an air-smoothing roll-type thing at the
bottom of the firewall where the cowling air exits above the stacks. Does
anyone know the part number and plan # that shows this? If so, would be much
appreciated...
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
RV6a one flying, one *finishing*
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
Why? Aren't you building your own aircraft or are you farming our all
the tasks to others?
Actually, I already built it: drilled every hole, pounded every rivet,
except for some bucking bar help, wired, plumbed, etc etc. Did the
whole thing myself. And it shows;)
What I am afraid of is that the people who do just write a check to a
professional builder, are going to screw it up for the rest of us. When
the government reacts to a problem, they often over react, and the
results could be bad for the rest of us.
And I disagree with the idea that once you learn how to set a rivet,
you've completed that "task." If you didn't set all 15K rivets (or at
least 51% of them) then you are not the builder, per the spirit of the
law. Many of the "builder's assist" shops, in which you drink coffee
and watch them build your airplane, use this sort of reasoning as a
rationalization. There is not much difference between making one layup
and watching the rest of the airplane built, and just staying home and
writing a check. I have always felt it was just a matter of time
before the FAA comes down on this kind of outfit.
This whole issue has been a bugaboo of mine since I've been involved in
homebuilding. I will admit that it was with some satisfaction that I
read the Aero News story. I do feel some sympathy for the owner of the
now useless Epic, but only to the extent that he was decieved about the
process by the company. If he knew what he was getting into, then it
serves him right.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
>As always sadly, people are more interested in 1 mph gain in speed than
>safety.
Of course reality is that I have beaucoup safety (mainly attitude) and the
extra mph is fun to pursue.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz> |
| Subject: | Re: From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
The implication would be that if the FAA decides the 51% rule isn't
working, they might come up with something a lot harder for the rest of
us to stomach. There seem to be a few people out there who've forgotten
that the purpose of amateur built experimental aircraft is for the
builder's recreation and education, not so that we can save money by
avoiding going through the certification process on an airframe. There
are a few more who define "builders assist" as building the plane for
someone else. And yet a few more who are building multiple aircraft for
profit.
I think that last category is the one that's really going to get us in
trouble. I read somewhere that the FAA is already concerned about the
number of aircraft being sold immediately after being built. It's not
too hard to imagine some bonehead coming up with a reg that would make
it hard to sell a completed aircraft.
PJ
Finn Lassen wrote:
>
>Why? Aren't you building your own aircraft or are you farming our all
>the tasks to others?
>
>Big difference between just pluncking down the cash and having someone
>else do all the work and actually doing each type of task yourself.
>Doesn't mean you have the set all 15,000 (?) rivits yourself, but you
>should at least have set enough to be competent at it and be able to
>recognize an acceptable rivit and an unacceptable one. And so on.
>
>Finn
>
>Jeff Point wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>For those who don't follow Aero News Net, take a look at this:
>>
>>http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=29e2f893-7c0b-4033-9840-f70e6769d2f8&
>>
>>Briefly, the new Epic 6 pax turboprop "homebuilt" has hit a snag when
>>the FAA refused to license a customers airplane. They felt it did not
>>meet the 51% rule.
>>
>>Very interesting, with lots of implications for the rest of us.
>>
>>Jeff Point
>>RV-6
>>Milwaukee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
On 08/26 4:17, Jeff Point wrote:
> And I disagree with the idea that once you learn how to set a rivet,
> you've completed that "task." If you didn't set all 15K rivets (or at
> least 51% of them) then you are not the builder, per the spirit of the
> law.
Uhhh, if you order a complete QB (wings & fuse) from vans, you aren't
setting 51% of the rivets, not even close.
Part of my reasoning for building, and doing it myself, is so that
I could obtain my Repairman's Certificate. That's the pot of gold
under the rainbow that might evaporate. That scares me, as well as
those folks who just buy it.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
Walter,
I have a Niagra/Harrison 10 row cooler.
Dick Martin
----- Original Message -----
From: "Walter Tondu" <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cowl Flap
>
> On 08/25 8:34, dick martin wrote:
>
> > I have 1175 hours in my RV8 equiped with an IO-390 engine and a James
> > cowl &
> > Plenum. I have never been able to overheat this engine, long climbs,
> > air
> > races at 100%power etc. If anything it over cools and I have made up a
> > set
> > of smaller size inlets for it for winter flying etc. I don't think that
> > cowl flaps are the answer. Also, my airplane goes quite a bit faster
> > (about
> > 10 mph) due to the cowl and plenum.
>
> What oil cooler do you have?
>
> --
> Walter Tondu
> http://www.rv7-a.com
> Flying, HA!
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <n1cxo320(at)peoplepc.com> |
I somehow missed the original story regarding Epic and the dentist...can
someone please give me the web address of the article? Thank you.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
On 08/26 7:55, Jeff Point wrote:
> Good point on the QB. That's not really what I was getting at though.
> Although I do admit, that I've never been able to believe that the QB
> kits really represent doing 51% of the work, and I know I'm not alone.
> The FAA sprinkled holy water on them and that's good enough though.
> Vans QBs are still a far cry from what EPIC and the like are doing.
Yep. I think that "systems" work (fuel, electrical, power plant, etc)
is just as important, maybe more, than setting rivets. I think the
FAA gives us a buy on Vans fuselage and wings, being that the kit
is long proven to be sturdy and even though there are many types of
builders out there with varying degrees of analness (is that a word?)
the planes generally are very well built, structurally. System's work
is definitely the part where each builder takes his/her own path.
I agree too that the FAA is definitely pointed towards the fact that
the planes by epic are essentially "not blessed" by the FAA. You
definitely don't want to rub you nose in the FAA's face. Very
bad. Someone is going to pay for that, I doubt that it will affect
Vans aircraft builders.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=29e2f893-7c0b-4033-9840-f70e6769d2f8&
n1cxo320(at)peoplepc.com wrote:
>
>I somehow missed the original story regarding Epic and the dentist...can
>someone please give me the web address of the article? Thank you.
>
>John
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | ventilated wheel fairing? |
A friend of mine who is building a Varieze made a comment today about
ventilating a wheel fairing to aid in cooling the brakes. The idea
would be to cut a few horizontal slits an inch or two long in the top of
the fairing aft of the wheel. I've never heard of this being done.
Sounds like it might work, though.
Has any one ever seen or heard of a ventilated wheel fairing?
--
Tom Sargent
RV-6A, cowling.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
Seems we are in agreement.
However, you and some other posters expressing doubts about the QBs and
51% rule need to look at the checklist the FAA or DAR uses to determine
if the major portion of the OPERATIONS (not work) were done by the
builder (Form 8000-38). The QBs are very much in compliance with the
spirit and letter of the rule. You do not have to repeat every
operation endlessly to be in compliance.
Have a look at Kitplanes September page 54 (Helping Hands article).
Now, in terms of pride and accomplishment, yes, I would very much prefer
to have done everything myself.
And yes, I can imagine a FAA inspector or DAR having reservations
issuing a Repairman's cert if the builder never touched the engine or
avionics, or any other part of the airplane he'll be authorized to
inspect and maintain if he gets that cert.
Finn
Jeff Point wrote:
>
>Why? Aren't you building your own aircraft or are you farming our all
>the tasks to others?
>
>
>Actually, I already built it: drilled every hole, pounded every rivet,
>except for some bucking bar help, wired, plumbed, etc etc. Did the
>whole thing myself. And it shows;)
>
>What I am afraid of is that the people who do just write a check to a
>professional builder, are going to screw it up for the rest of us. When
>the government reacts to a problem, they often over react, and the
>results could be bad for the rest of us.
>
>And I disagree with the idea that once you learn how to set a rivet,
>you've completed that "task." If you didn't set all 15K rivets (or at
>least 51% of them) then you are not the builder, per the spirit of the
>law. Many of the "builder's assist" shops, in which you drink coffee
>and watch them build your airplane, use this sort of reasoning as a
>rationalization. There is not much difference between making one layup
>and watching the rest of the airplane built, and just staying home and
>writing a check. I have always felt it was just a matter of time
>before the FAA comes down on this kind of outfit.
>
>This whole issue has been a bugaboo of mine since I've been involved in
>homebuilding. I will admit that it was with some satisfaction that I
>read the Aero News story. I do feel some sympathy for the owner of the
>now useless Epic, but only to the extent that he was decieved about the
>process by the company. If he knew what he was getting into, then it
>serves him right.
>
>Jeff Point
>RV-6
>Milwaukee WI
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | From Aero News Net- 51% rule |
The FAA is not giving Vans a pass on anything, you just have to
understand their measuring methodology. They calculate the percentage of
operations rather than the effort. They have a checklist of operations
that could occur to complete the airframe and tally the checkmarks in
the builder vs kit mfg columns. Operations are things like forming a
wing rib, making gussets, mounting hinges, riveting, balancing controls,
etc. Repetition doesn't matter - one rib or rivet counts the same as 20
or 12,000. That's why the old QB kits left off one of the outer wing
ribs and had you form it (yes, with a form block) from blank sheet
metal. That allowed you to get a QB empanage. The new QB kits force you
to build the tail so the QB can complete more of the fuselage and wings.
It's a game of shifting the checkmarks around. The FAA's checklist
focuses on the airframe and specifically allows paid help for the panel,
interior, paint, etc. as well as purchase of commercial off the shelf
components. Their methodology is so liberal it makes it all the worse
for the industry when a company like Epic just ignores it.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY - project Phoenix
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
> > Vans QBs are still a far cry from what EPIC and the like are doing.
>
> Yep. I think that "systems" work (fuel, electrical, power
> plant, etc) is just as important, maybe more, than setting
> rivets. I think the FAA gives us a buy on Vans fuselage and
> wings, being that the kit is long proven to be sturdy and
> even though there are many types of builders out there with
> varying degrees of analness (is that a word?) the planes
> generally are very well built, structurally. System's work
> is definitely the part where each builder takes his/her own path.
>
> I agree too that the FAA is definitely pointed towards the
> fact that the planes by epic are essentially "not blessed" by
> the FAA. You definitely don't want to rub you nose in the
> FAA's face. Very bad. Someone is going to pay for that, I
> doubt that it will affect Vans aircraft builders.
> --
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> |
RV-List,
I am considering an 8A vs. an 8 and am conflicted about the
direction I should take. I know a fair amount about the tail dragger
-4's however I would like some input about the tri-gear offered by Vans,
especially in relation to the 8A. I have a small amount of time in a 7A
and found it to be typical; is there anything I should be considering
when choosing between the two (8/8A). Let me add that the tail wheel
version definitely looks sexier (IMO) however I see no need to
complicate flying by going for the tail wheel version when there is a
perfectly good solution available. I ask because recently someone
mentioned that the nose wheel is easy to bend out of shape on the vans.
Not sure what data supports that but hitting something hard is always a
good way to do that in any plane.
Thanks in advance for your contribution.
Mr. Moisture
RV-4
200 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose vs. Tail |
On 27 Aug 2005, at 01:56, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> RV-List,
>
> I am considering an 8A vs. an 8 and am conflicted about
> the
> direction I should take. I know a fair amount about the tail dragger
> -4's however I would like some input about the tri-gear offered by
> Vans,
> especially in relation to the 8A. I have a small amount of time in
> a 7A
> and found it to be typical; is there anything I should be considering
> when choosing between the two (8/8A). Let me add that the tail wheel
> version definitely looks sexier (IMO) however I see no need to
> complicate flying by going for the tail wheel version when there is a
> perfectly good solution available. I ask because recently someone
> mentioned that the nose wheel is easy to bend out of shape on the
> vans.
> Not sure what data supports that but hitting something hard is
> always a
> good way to do that in any plane.
>
There have been several accidents of RV-6As and RV-8As where the nose
gear bent, leading to a loss of control on the runway. Van's nose
gear design isn't as strong as see on typical spam cans, so it can't
take as much abuse. The aircraft needs to be landed on the main gear
first. If you touchdown at too high a speed you might hit nose gear
first and put too much load on it, causing it to bend and collapse.
Each model has its strengths and weaknesses. Build the one you want,
not the one that other people think you should want.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Wernerworld" <russ(at)wernerworld.com> |
"mk" ,
"Cameron Kurth"
| Subject: | Reno ticket available |
I have a Reno ticket for sale cheap. I paid over $600 for the box seat and
Chairman's Club. I have another commitment making it impossible for me to
go.
The box seat is in a friends box, but gives you access to ALL the box
seating areas. Your Box seat pass also gives you pit passes for the entire
event.
As a member of the Chairman's Club, you are able to enter and leave the Club
as often as you wish. Food (including hot entrees) and beverages (including
a full-service bar) are available all day at no additional charge for
members. The Club has a covered area (one of the few spots to escape the sun
at Reno) with an excellent view of show center and the home pylon. This is
also where many of the competitors eat lunch, as it is included in their
entry. This is always sold out early and the best spot to hang out at Reno!
$400 or best offer.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ventilated wheel fairing? |
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: ventilated wheel fairing?
>
> A friend of mine who is building a Varieze made a comment today about
> ventilating a wheel fairing to aid in cooling the brakes. The idea
> would be to cut a few horizontal slits an inch or two long in the top of
> the fairing aft of the wheel. I've never heard of this being done.
> Sounds like it might work, though.
>
> Has any one ever seen or heard of a ventilated wheel fairing?
> --
> Tom Sargent
> RV-6A, cowling.
>
In the days when the the EZ was *the* homebuilt, there were a variety of
brake problems caused by overheating. Rutan had gone with relatively small
brakes, and they got pretty hot sometimes. Occasionally, there was enough
heat to transfer from the metal axle into the fiberglass gear leg and cause
the gear leg to either fail or develop a permanant sag. Ventilating the
wheel pants was one of the fixes to the problem.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose vs. Tail |
Since you are apparently competent in taildraggers you should
build what you can fly competently and like (as Kevin stated).
If people are landing on the nose gear that is pilot error.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
No hot start problems at all?
Bob wrote:
>Has anyone had the thought of installing cowl flaps in the engine cowling
>for cooling in an RV with fuel injection?
I have an RV 6 with fuel injection. No need for additional cooling. Now
if cowl flaps added additional heating I might be interested.
In winter I have the oil cooler 90% blocked off, in the summer it is about
40%. Now cowl flaps maybe useful if you reduced the cowl intake by about
50% (a rough guess).
There is considerable info and debate in the achieves on this subject.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose vs. Tail |
I think what the OP really wanted was not tail vs nose dragger general
discussion but one as it specifically relates to the -8. One thing that
I have read is that the tail dragger has the large gear towers that
invade the cockpit space and may be uncomfortable against your legs.
The only way to know if that is going to be a problem for any given
person is to get in one and see. I think if you go with a slow build
fuse the gear towers also make the -8 harder to build than the -8A.
From everything I have read, out side the gear tower thing, it is just
the typical tail vs nose dragger arguments.
--
Chris W
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Leland <federigo(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | ICOM Radio Problems |
I recently purchased an ICOM A24 transceiver. Opening the box I found
that it was made in Japan, for a pleasant change. After a few days of
playing with it and calling ICOM technical support three times I learned
the following:
1. Even though the A24 comes with a Headset Adapter, it does not include
a remote pushbutton for transmission. Some of the vendors sell this as a
$30 option, or you can solder together a Radio Shack 1/8" monaural jack
and momentary on-switch. Some of the earlier ICOM pushbuttons use a
different format and do not work in the A24 headset adapter.
2. If you plug in the headset and push the transmit button on the A24
itself, both the A24 microphone and the headset mic are activated, and
the radio broadcasts a horrible scream since the two units "talk" to
each other. (This is one way to get the control tower's attention.)
3. If you activate the remote headset pushbutton mentioned in number 1
above, you may transmit another horrible hum. The problem is that about
half the headsets sold today show this problem. Both my ANR and non-ANR
headsets have this problem. The problem arises when RF from the
rubber-ducky antenna is picked up by a nearby headset. One way around
this is to use a remote antenna, such as that on the outside of the
aircraft. Another other solution is to buy a clamp-on RF filter
(containing ferrite beads) from a vendor like
http://www.allpointsdist.com/ .
Leland Collins
RV9A
N137LC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Olson <lolson22(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Exit air smoothing |
Talk to the guys at Show Planes, Medford, OR
(the guys that make the 8 fast back conversion)
http://showplanes.com
I didn't see it on their web site but they are making them.
Very good group of guys. Big into making your RV fast.
Larry Olson
RV6 Phoenix DVT
At 01:02 PM 8/26/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>Listers:
>
>I'm building a -6a, but trying to incorporate as many new mods as possible
>from the -7a's. I understand there is an air-smoothing roll-type
>thing at the
>bottom of the firewall where the cowling air exits above the stacks. Does
>anyone know the part number and plan # that shows this? If so,
>would be much
>appreciated...
>
>Jerry Cochran
>Wilsonville, OR
>RV6a one flying, one *finishing*
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Garmin GPS III pilot problem |
I've got a Garmin GPS III pilot that has decided to stop receiving
satellite signals. Anybody got any idea what could be wrong or tricks to
try?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
"rv7-list(at)matronics.com"
| Subject: | Katrina avoidance |
In the past, we've sheltered a few planes from the Gulf coast when they
have been relocated to avoid hurricanes.
Given the building strength of this storm, if anyone needs a place for
self & family we have 2 spare bedrooms & lots of floor space. We are in
Jackson MS & will likely get some wind but we'll be free of flooding.
(Some hangar space, as well.)
I'm confident that our neighbors would be willing to help, as well.
Charlie
601.879.9596
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Garmin GPS III pilot problem |
On 21:51:03 2005-08-27 Bobby Hester wrote:
> I've got a Garmin GPS III pilot that has decided to stop receiving
> satellite signals. Anybody got any idea what could be wrong or tricks
> to try?
If you remove your antenna frequently, say to connect it to an external
antenna when you use it in the airplane, you may have worn out the
connector either on the unit or in the antenna itself.
I took the unit's antenna apart once, after dropping it, it's a remarkably
fragile unit inside. In my case I had only cracked the case, and it was
easy to fix with some crazy glue. But I could see how it would be easy to
twist the connector and break the connection.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Katrina avoidance |
I just saw that Katrina is a Category 5 hurricane. That is one to
to avoid at all costs. For those who are new to the area it hits and
have never been through a hurricane, I went through a low Cat 3 in
Houston and would not do that again.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Sliding canopy question |
I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft part
of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy sides
caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
Travis
RV-7A
Finishing the finishing kit
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | My experience with SafeAir and Trio |
I want to give everyone an update on my experience with these two fine companies.
I purchased my installation kit and wiring harness for the Trio EZ-Pilot from
Tony at SafeAir1.com. He took great pains to make sure everything was in
my hands and right before he would even accept my money. An outside vendor makes
many components of the install kit for him, and there were in fact a few issues,
but all were settled with amazing speed and at no expenxse to me. Tony
seems very interested in getting feedback from the field on these products, and
making whatever refinements are necessary to assure a quality product. The
install kit worked well and was fully worth the $129 in time and labor saved,
considering I am a bit rusty in my construcyion skills and my scrap box is not
well-stocked with odds and ends and hardware. Ditto for the SteinAir wiring
harness, which I was going to fab myself, but Tony threw in at a considerable
discount to compensate for the snags we hit earlier
in the process. Mechanically, I can say there were no glitches with the installation
process. Allow yourself about 4 relaxed hours to do the wingtip servo
installation by yourself, plus or minus disorganization, interruptions, misplaced
tools, etc. :-)
For their part, Trio makes an outstanding product. I did have some issues at first
with servo oscillation on the ground and with an unexplained loss of settings
and later of GPS signal while test-flying, but Trio overnighted me a new
control head, thinking there might be a loose EPROM or something, and it's been
"digital perfection" ever since. I'm stlll learning all this little box is
capable of, as I am new to autopilots in general and also using a new and unfamiliar
GPS to guide it, but so far I am amazed at what it will do. "Coolest"
money I ever spent on the RV, and an investment I think will be well worth it
in safety and comfort when fooling with charts in the cockpit, flying formation
(kidding ;-) and cross-country, along with the emergency vertigo-proof escape
feature if I should foolishly blunder into IMC. I also plan an instrument rating
one day, and hope this box will make my RV into at least a marginally suitable
platform for single-pilot IFR. I have no hesi
tation about adding a Trio Altitude Hold by year's-end, when the budget allows.
This looks to be dependable avionics from another company dedicated to excellence
in customer care.
No pecuniary interest in either company; just a satisfied customer reporting from
the field. If I can install this stuff and get it running, you can, too.
-Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
Are you trying to re-shape the plexiglass, the canopy frame, or the skirts?
I don't think you have a snowball's chance in Las Vegas of re-shaping the
plexiglass (or the frame) with straps at this point. You'll either end up
wasting your time or breaking something expensive. If you're trying to
re-shape the skirts, why not either re-make them, or borrow a
stretcher/shrinker to fix the problem.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Sliding canopy question
>
> I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft
> part
> of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
> bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
> together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
> riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy
> sides
> caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
> bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
> only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
> of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
> cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
> tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
> canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
> success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
> little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
> skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>
> Travis
> RV-7A
> Finishing the finishing kit
>
> --
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv6fly <rv6fly(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | Looking for a RV6/Baker and Stewart e-mail address |
If anyone knows the e-mail addy and/or phone number for Jim Baker,
Goodland, KS or John Stewart, Burlington, CO would you please send them
to me at: rv6fly(at)bresnan.net.
Also, if anyone knows of a well built RV6, please respond to the same
e-mail address.
Thanks, Bob Skinner
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
I tried bending the frame with the canopy on in the bright sun and it didnt
do a thing. I would remake the aft skirts (something I still have to do)
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Sliding canopy question
>
> I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft
> part
> of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
> bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
> together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
> riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy
> sides
> caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
> bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
> only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
> of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
> cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
> tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
> canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
> success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
> little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
> skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>
> Travis
> RV-7A
> Finishing the finishing kit
>
> --
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
Here is what I did and it worked great. Take the aft skirts off and get a piece
of stove pipe from your local plumbing outlet. Then take your aft skirts and
roll gently the bottom 10 inches or so around the stove pipe. This will put enough
set into the aft skirts that they will actually pull the side skirts into
the fuselage. I ended up with less than 1/16th from the fuselage with this method,
and started out about where you are.
Mark Phipps, N242RP,, Flying RV6A
Jeff Dowling wrote:
I tried bending the frame with the canopy on in the bright sun and it didnt
do a thing. I would remake the aft skirts (something I still have to do)
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Travis Hamblen"
Subject: RV-List: Sliding canopy question
>
> I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft
> part
> of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
> bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
> together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
> riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy
> sides
> caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
> bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
> only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
> of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
> cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
> tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
> canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
> success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
> little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
> skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>
> Travis
> RV-7A
> Finishing the finishing kit
>
> --
>
>
>
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | RV-8 Canopy Skirt |
Someone who monitors the list, but isn't subscribed sent me the following question.
Since I'm not familiar with the RV-8 canopy, I thought I'd post it to the
list and the RV-8 folks could offer a helping hand...
>My problem is not with my RV8 canopy frame, but is with the aft skirt and about
24" forward of rear of skirt is where the largest gap occurs. Here the >skirt/fuselage
gap is nearly one half inch and that will cause quite a draft and look
bad.
>An experienced local builder who has built the total RV range (except a nearly
completed RV10) tells me that the skirt is badly moulded. A fibreglas expert
says the >rear part of the skirt must be remade to conform to the shape of the
fuselage.
>The skirt is clecoed at present and I have not fastened it for obvious reasons.
The skirt fits well elsewhere.
Any guidance would be helpful.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "AYRES, JIMMY L" <JAYRES(at)entergy.com> |
I flew up Benton, Arkansas last week and visited with the folks at Trutrak. I
found the entire staff to be very knowledgeable and friendly, especially Jim (one
of the owners) who took time out to explain the operation of the ADI pictorial
pilot II. I was also given a tour of the MFG facility. I was very impressed
and I placed my order on the spot. They also have a wiring harness you can
order with all of the connectors pre-wired and the wires labeled and cut to
the proper length. I ordered one of those also. I give Trutrak an A+!
Jimmy Ayres
RV7A QB
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ventilated wheel fairing? |
I have seen this at Reno. The trailing edge of the wheel pant was cut off
leaving a 1/4 inch wide opening to let the air out. BUT, if you do this you
increase airflow through the wheel pants and this will cause drag.
>
>A friend of mine who is building a Varieze made a comment today about
>ventilating a wheel fairing to aid in cooling the brakes. The idea
>would be to cut a few horizontal slits an inch or two long in the top of
>the fairing aft of the wheel. I've never heard of this being done.
>Sounds like it might work, though.
>
>Has any one ever seen or heard of a ventilated wheel fairing?
>--
>Tom Sargent
>RV-6A, cowling.
>
>
Scott Bilinski
Eng dept 305
Phone (858) 657-2536
Pager (858) 502-5190
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Flying RV-6A for sale |
| From: | "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net> |
Howdy folks,
Well the time has come for me to put the RV-6A up for sale. This plane
has literally changed my life and it can yours too. My RV-8 is flying
great now and I got that "special photo" I was holding out for before
putting the 6A up for sale. You all know the plane. It has made a couple
of appearances around the country. Web site with details here:
http://www2.mstewart.net:8080/forsale/index.htm
Enjoy,
Mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
At 09:30 AM 8/27/05, you wrote:
>
>No hot start problems at all?
>
In regards to cowl flaps I do not think they would be effective for
problems with hot starts. Yes my engine is hard to start after shut down
for more than 10-15 minutes, due to heat soaking of the fuel injection
lines above the engine.
Since heat rises, and the lines are so close to the engine, it takes very
little heat to vaporize the fuel in the lines going from the spider to the
injectors. Traditional cowl flaps, while the aircraft is on the ground
with engine off and the aircraft not moving would not be helpful in my
opinion, but without engineering experimental data,that is just a guess on
my part.
I have seen people put flaps on the top of the cowl just above the
cylinders. They automatically open when the airflow through the plenum
ceases (gravity control). This allows heat to radiate directly through the
top of the cowl. I think this would work better for cooling the injector
lines, but I don't think it would solve the hot start problem. Anybody out
there who knows for sure, please respond.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV-8 For Sale in North Carolina |
Listers,
My RV-8 N844RF is for sale on Trade-A-Plane. Price is
$108,000. Details on T-A-P or email me Scott(at)Keadle.com. I
think I'm going to build an RV-8 myself...
Scott Keadle
14A Lake Norman, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
I doubt that you'd get any results from that. I'd take the aft skirts
off and remake them from fiberglass. Then there is no preload at all.
If I had to do it all over again I'd go straight to fiberglass instead
of fighting with the metal skirts and then winding up with fiberglass
anyway.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
http://www.myrv7.com
Travis Hamblen wrote:
>
>I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft part
>of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
>bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
>together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
>riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy sides
>caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
>bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
>only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
>of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
>cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
>tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
>canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
>success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
>little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
>skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>
>Travis
>RV-7A
>Finishing the finishing kit
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Abilene Formation Clinic |
1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
As previously submitted, Mike Stewart and I are conducting a formation clinic in conjunction with the Big Country (Abilene) Airfest at KABI on 23-25 September. Although response has been good, there are still openings available for those with excellent stick and rudder skills who would like to begin or improve formation skills. Go to http://bigcountryairfest.org/html/formation_flight_clinic.html to read up on the clinic, register for the clinic, and to make motel reservations. The block of rooms will be released on 8 Sep.
The clinic targets pilots of RV aircraft, but aircraft of similar configuration/airspeeds
will be considered. We will cut off registration when we get the right
numbers and mix of low, medium, high formation experience.
Stu McCurdy
As previously submitted,Mike Stewart and I are conducting a formation clinic in conjunction with the Big Country (Abilene) Airfest at KABI on 23-25 September. Although response has been good, there are still openings available for those with excellent stick and rudder skills who would like to begin or improve formation skills. Go to http://bigcountryairfest.org/html/formation_flight_clinic.htmlto read up on the clinic, register for the clinic, and to make motel reservations. The block of rooms will be released on 8 Sep.
The clinic targets pilots ofRV aircraft, but aircraft of similar configuration/airspeeds
will be considered. We will cut off registration when we get the right
numbers and mix of low, medium, high formation experience.
Stu McCurdy
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Wingtip Wiring Length |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
I would appreciate feedback from the list on the approximate length of wiring
runs they have used from the wingtip to the panel on an RV7A. I don't plan a
disconnect at the wing root, and I'll likely add about a 1 foot service loop at
the panel. I am assuming 20' per side should be sufficient? Also, outside
of the landing lights....anyone determine a need for 16 AWG wire? Apologies
for the easy questions (if I had planned)...trying to get wire ordereed today
but don't have all my info handy. Thanks,Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Wiring Length |
I used disconnects at the wing root for ease of construction - I haven't assembled
yet.
I have my wings wired and closed - when I put them together, I'll finish the (dis)connectors.
This also allowed me to test my wiring / grounds - etc and fix (had to rerun a
wire) while it was easier.....
My .02,
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
From: tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com
Subject: RV-List: Wingtip Wiring Length
I would appreciate feedback from the list on the approximate length of wiring
runs they have used from the wingtip to the panel on an RV7A. I don't plan a
disconnect at the wing root, and I'll likely add about a 1 foot service loop at
the panel. I am assuming 20' per side should be sufficient? Also, outside
of the landing lights....anyone determine a need for 16 AWG wire? Apologies
for the easy questions (if I had planned)...trying to get wire ordereed today
but don't have all my info handy. Thanks,Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wingtip Wiring Length |
IIRC it was about 12' hanging out of the wing root and that seemed to be
about right. I had some laying on the hangar floor after the lights
were hooked up. I don't know how much it took to get from the wing root
to the panel. Probably 8-10' or so. It would depend on how you ran the
wire, and where it was going on the panel. I suspect 20' would be
cutting it close but it might be okay. Order more than you think you'll
need. You will find a use for it, and then still have to re-order. :-)
Use 16 AWG wire if you are planning anything much higher than ~75
watts. I used 16 AWG for my landing lights and they are 55 watts but I
want the option of upgrading them to 100 watts in the future if I decide
too.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
http://www.myrv7.com
tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com wrote:
>
> I would appreciate feedback from the list on the approximate length of wiring
runs they have used from the wingtip to the panel on an RV7A. I don't plan a
disconnect at the wing root, and I'll likely add about a 1 foot service loop
at the panel. I am assuming 20' per side should be sufficient? Also, outside
of the landing lights....anyone determine a need for 16 AWG wire? Apologies
for the easy questions (if I had planned)...trying to get wire ordereed today
but don't have all my info handy. Thanks,Scott
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv6160hp(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV Forum in NY & Mike Seager Lessons at KFZY Sept 11 |
RV Listers remember...another fly in forum in NY is fast approaching go to:
WWW>EAACHAPTER486>com
Find link regarding the RV Forum Weekend of September 9, 10 & 11 2005
ALSO NOTE, training in Factory RV7
Mike Seager flying spots still available
Contact
cwarner(at)twcny.rr.com
For flight times and to secure your spot.
See you there, respectfully
David McManmon
RV6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jdwilson16" <jdwilson16(at)cox.net> |
Come to COPPERSTATE. Oct 6-9
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Marshall
Subject: RV-List: Fall RV Fly-In
Since Van's Homecoming has been cancelled this year, is anyone interested in
a fly-in somewhere in the NW in Sep or Oct? We have a great little airport
on Flathead Lake in NW Montana, Polson 8S1. It is possible we could host
something, unless someone has a better idea. We just held our 7th annual
fly-in last Sat.....great success.
Tony Marshall
RV6
Polson, MT
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
I hope that new builders don't get the wrong idea about sliders, it IS
possible to get a good fitting installation without fiberglass or
compound curved sheet metal, but it has to be done correctly from the
very start.
Start with the fuselage riveted, not clecoed so there won't be any
surprises after the riveting is done.
The frame has to fit without the plexi installed, if it doesn't, you'll
never make it fit right later. I had to do quite a bit of bending
(using a torch) to make it fit and it's a lot of work to get it right
but it's mandatory if you want a good canopy fit. DO NOT try to bend it
after the plexi is installed, it can only come to grief ($$$$).
The rear skirts are FLAT sheets of metal, there are no compound curves
necessary (if the frame fits).
The side skirts are a different issue, they need to bend 2 different
directions at once to fit properly (mine don't), but there is much
discussion in the archives on this and I think that the newer kits
address this issue (mine's a -6).
Bottom line, if you already have a problem, then of course you have to
fix it the best you can, but if you haven't started yet, pick every
brain you can on the subject before you start, and remember, if the
frame doesn't fit the fuselage properly, nothing else will fit either.
Dave -6 So Cal
EAA Technical Counselor
Phil Birkelbach wrote:
>
>I doubt that you'd get any results from that. I'd take the aft skirts
>off and remake them from fiberglass. Then there is no preload at all.
>If I had to do it all over again I'd go straight to fiberglass instead
>of fighting with the metal skirts and then winding up with fiberglass
>anyway.
>
>Godspeed,
>
>Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
>RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
>http://www.myrv7.com
>
>
>Travis Hamblen wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>>I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft part
>>of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
>>bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
>>together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
>>riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy sides
>>caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
>>bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
>>only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
>>of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
>>cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
>>tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
>>canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
>>success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
>>little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
>>skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>>
>>Travis
>>RV-7A
>>Finishing the finishing kit
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stan Jones" <stan.jones(at)xtra.co.nz> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
Yes, Phil is right.
Going straight to fiberglass will save you a lot of grief.
You can position the glass exactly where you want it, and end up with a good
job.
Stan J.
-------Original Message-------
From: Phil Birkelbach
Date: 08/30/05 05:32:45
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sliding canopy question
I doubt that you'd get any results from that. I'd take the aft skirts
off and remake them from fiberglass. Then there is no preload at all.
If I had to do it all over again I'd go straight to fiberglass instead
of fighting with the metal skirts and then winding up with fiberglass
anyway.
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
http://www.myrv7.com
Travis Hamblen wrote:
>
>I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft part
>of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
>bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
>together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
>riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy sides
>caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
>bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
>only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
>of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
>cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
>tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
>canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
>success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
>little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
>skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>
>Travis
>RV-7A
>Finishing the finishing kit
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sliding canopy question |
I don't know, mine fits pretty tight with the rear skirts, I have maybe 16th
of an inch were they meet on the back side
but it works if the frame is setup from the start.. I didn't have to heat
anything or cut the frame, one thing helped alot is
the tip/up slider add on helped me get the skirts better as it allowed me to
lift the canopy for drilling the skirt.. I recommend it..
Its not that bad doing it like the plans say.. mine closes and opens with
one hand, seals good enough and I am very happy with it..
Danny..
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stan Jones" <stan.jones(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Sliding canopy question
>
> Yes, Phil is right.
> Going straight to fiberglass will save you a lot of grief.
> You can position the glass exactly where you want it, and end up with a
> good
> job.
> Stan J.
>
> -------Original Message-------
>
> From: Phil Birkelbach
> Date: 08/30/05 05:32:45
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Sliding canopy question
>
>
> I doubt that you'd get any results from that. I'd take the aft skirts
> off and remake them from fiberglass. Then there is no preload at all.
> If I had to do it all over again I'd go straight to fiberglass instead
> of fighting with the metal skirts and then winding up with fiberglass
> anyway.
>
> Godspeed,
>
> Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
> RV-7 N727WB - Finishing Up
> http://www.myrv7.com
>
>
> Travis Hamblen wrote:
>
>>
>>I have my sliding canopy all done now, but do not like the way the aft
>>part
>>of the canopy bows away from the fuselage. I am seeing about 1" - 1.5" of
>>bowing between the aft part (where the side skirt and aft skirt are joined
>>together) and the fuselage. It was a GREAT fit before the aft skirts were
>>riveted on, but then the tension that the aft skirt put on the canopy
>>sides
>>caused this bowing. I was thinking of using some straps to try to SLOWLY
>>bend the aft part of the canopy inward about 1.5" on each side of the aft
>>only part of the canopy. I live in Las Vegas and it is VERY hot this time
>>of year so I don't think I have to worry much about the Plexiglas being
>>cold. I was thinking that I could slowly (over a day or so) add more
>>tension to some ratcheting type straps wrapped around the aft part of the
>>canopy. I wondered if anyone has tried this in the past and had any
>>success. Also considering trying to just bend the side skirts inward a
>>little, but then there will be a little more of a gap created in the aft
>>skirt? Any advice is much appreciated.
>>
>>Travis
>>RV-7A
>>Finishing the finishing kit
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | dralle(at)matronics.com (Matt Dralle) |
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Looks to me like a CG (Computer Graphics) event. I have no idea what
type of plane this is but of you pause the player to take a close look
at the plane it is just too smooth, no windows, no doors, nothing looks
right (to me). If you also notice right at impact the POV camera drops
down and then returns to the crash where there is fire. From my limited
experience it is much easier to place the "fire" plugin's in motion vs.
having to start the CG fire from scratch.
Mr. Suspicious
RV-4
200 Hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
--
Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
The aircraft involved was a DHC-4 Caribou. See
http://www.avrosys.nu/aircraft/Transport/269Tp55.htm for more details. The
aircraft type saw a fair bit of use by the Australian Air Force and the US
Army (in its pre-rotary wing days).
The mishap occurred 27 Aug 1992 at Gimli, Manitoba. The aircraft was
reportedly converted to turbo prop power using PT-6 engines and was on a
test flight by a civil company. See
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920827-1 for a few more
details. I seem to recall that the accident investigation found the flight
control gust locks had not be fully disengaged accounting for the loss of
control on takeoff but I may be wrong on this.
The three crew members on the flight tragically lost their lies in the
clearly unsurvivable crash.
I fly into Gimli occasionally. It is also well known as the place where an
Air Canada 767 which ran out of fuel due to a fuelling error made a
successful power off landing - becoming known as the Gimli Glider in the
process.
Jim Oke
Winnipeg, MB
RV-6A C-GKGZ
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
> Sent: August 29, 2005 11:44 PM
> To: dralle(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
>
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the
> crash? Almost looks like an RC model especially given the
> cameraman's rather unemotional comment following the crash.
> Kind of looks like the elevator may have been hooked up
> backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
> Matt
>
>
> --
>
>
> Matt G. Dralle | Matronics | P.O. Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
> 925-606-1001 Voice | 925-606-6281 FAX | dralle(at)matronics.com
> Email http://www.matronics.com/ W.W.W. | Featuring Products
> For Aircraft
>
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
On 30 Aug 2005, at 24:44, Matt Dralle wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
> looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
> unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
> elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
>
> http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
>
> Any information on this video would be intersting.
>
This looks like a video of the crash of the DHC-4T prototype. As I
recall, the control locks were inadvertently left connected.
http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=19920827-1
The turbine conversion program languished following the accident, but
it was eventually resurrected:
http://www.penturbo.com/
http://oc-kahuna.com/Turbo.html
To bring this back to RVs - a lot of accidents have been caused by
crews not following checklists. This accident would have been
prevented if the crew had done a flight control check before take-
off. It is easy to get distracted during flight testing and either
forget to do checklists, or miss items in the checklist.
Slow down and take the time to methodically use a checklist. The
life you save may be your own.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
Hi Mike,
If you remember, Dan used Teflon tape on his...
http://www.rvproject.com/20040218.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
I have seen folks use silicone with good results but I am unable to find
a release agent for silicone.
Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
Mike Stuart
Suggested techniques for getting silicone adhesives to release from one of
the surfaces when making silicone sealant formed in place gaskets around
panels
1. Apply the sealant in a nicely formed bead to one surface that is clean
and dry. Allow it to skin over. In the hot humid ATL weather it will not
take long. Then carefully close the panel and allow the silicone sealant
bead to reform to fit the space between the panel and the airplane skin. If
the panel is attached with screws, do not tighten the screws all the way but
allow for a bit of extra thickness that will compress after the sealant has
cured and you later tighten the screws completely.
2. Another method is to use a silicone spray on the surface you want to
release. Follow the steps above but spray a light coating of silicone fluid
on to the surface you want to release. If you need to control the silicone
fluid, a must if you have not yet painted the airplane, spay the fluid onto
a clean cloth and then carefully wipe the fluid on to the surface.
Application hints:
It much easier to get nicely formed beads if you use a caulking gun rather
than a squeeze tube.
Saran Wrap can also be used to prevent adhesion. Just lay a sheet over the
panel opening before you put the panel in place.
If your panels are hinged, there may be a little scuffing of the bead near
the hinge side as you close it. Using the fluid will lubricate the formed in
place gasket and prevent distortion while it cures.
Give the sealant a full 24 hours to cure before opening panel if the beads
are 1/8 inch or less. More for thicher cross sections.
Dale Ensing
retired silicone peddler
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
Dale Ensing wrote:
[snip]
> 2. Another method is to use a silicone spray on the surface you want to
> release. Follow the steps above but spray a light coating of silicone fluid
> on to the surface you want to release. If you need to control the silicone
> fluid, a must if you have not yet painted the airplane, spay the fluid onto
> a clean cloth and then carefully wipe the fluid on to the surface.
If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
to get along together. Once used spray silicon as a release agent for
molding some fiberglass parts. Big mistake, never was able to get a
good paint job on those parts.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A - fuselage scheduled for Oct delivery
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Crosley, Rich" <RCROSLEY(at)HRTEXTRON.TEXTRON.COM> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-8 Canopy Skirt |
The canopy skirt on the "8" is a pain. I fit mine the best I could and then
started cutting. I used a 2" cutting wheel in a die grinder and spilt the
skirt in two at the back and horizontally near the top in the radius area
forward about two feet from the rear. I also had to cut vertically at the
bottom of the curve where it starts the straight bottom edge going forward.
Basically you cleco it down where it fits and cut where you have to get the
best fit. Put wax paper against the fuselage and using fiberglass paste it
back together while taping it against the fuselage, then, when setup,
fiberglass the back side. Then sand and file and sand and fill and grind
and sand and when you fly your wife will still complain about cold air
coming forward from the back. Give her a towel to put back there to stop it
and do a roll, it won't stop the air coming in, the towel does that, but
you'll feel better. The cold air doesn't get up to you anyway.
Rich Crosley
N948RC RV-8 80 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
On 08/30 7:00, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote:
>
> I have some access panels that I would like to seal up. 2 fwd of the
> windscreen on an RV-8.
>
> I have seen folks use silicone with good results but I am unable to find
> a release agent for silicone.
>
> The archives did not help and actually frustrated me more reading all
> the junk that people archive.
>
> Gone are the days where a quick search gets you the answers you need.
>
>
> Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
I used saran wrap with great success. I placed the sw around the
covers and screwed them into place.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <flyingrv(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Heating and Shaping Fiberglass |
Hi Mickey,
Thanks for your question on this matter. I've put together my thoughts from years
of experience.
Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc bob@fairings-etc.com
Heating and Shaping Fiberglass
OK Gang, heres the deal on heating and shaping fiberglass. This is always
true with ester resins (more or less) and somewhat true with epoxy (most of
the time.)
When resins harden they form a molecular, 3 dimensional fishnet looking
structure. This fishnet is wrapped, wound, in, over and throughout the fiberglass
strands.
The fiberglass strands are about the same as the window you are gazing
out of wondering why you are reading this. Chemically there are differences,
but I dont have a clue just how that works.
If you got way down in the strands you would find teeny tiny fibers that
look like a barb wire fence made by a guy that went insane putting the barbs
on.
When you heat this thing up, the molecular bonds weaken in the fishnet
and as you bend/reshape the part the fishnet tears apart and the fibers in the
glass break because they cannot slide past each other like they could when the
resin was a fluid.
If you have been following along here, you can see that you just broke
the part. You probably cant see it because its more or less on the molecular
level, but it is broken.
Now the question is are you ever going to care. If it is a no or low stress
area it probably isnt going to cause a problem. If its a stressed or vibrated
area it will crack after you put that 1OK paint job on.
Epoxy is a little different deal, sometimes and sort of. It is more a
temperature cure where -ester resin is more related to time. Most -ester laminates
will be cured in 24 to 72 hours. The epoxy we use will be hard when it
has been to 150 to 175 degrees F. What this says is, if you make a part and it
has been to, say 80 degrees you can heat it to 120 degrees and reform it some.
The resin will reharden but the glass strands my not like it much.
Now experts and engineers dont argue with me! Im old, crotchety, and dont
want to be confused by facts. Nevertheless, do feel free to add your thinking
to the discussion.
>
> From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
> Date: 2005/08/24 Wed AM 01:30:13 EDT
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> What should we not do with a heat gun? I'm close to fitting my
> fairings, and I was about to attack it with a heat gun!
>
> Mickey
>
> > Thanks for making the trip up to the Arlington fly-in this year. I really
> > appreciated your sharing your knowledge and tips with us and hope you'll
> > consider coming back. I learned a lot about making my fairings fit, and
> > what not to do with a heat gun!
> >
> > Thanks again,
> > Dave Burton
> > RV6
> >
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <flyingrv(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab |
> Dave,
Thanks for coming to the seminar. Arlington is my old stomping grounds and I always
like to go back for a visit.
Glad you felt seminar was of value to you.
Bob Snedaker
Fairings-Etc
> From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
> Date: 2005/08/23 Tue PM 11:07:28 EDT
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
>
> Hi Bob,
>
> Thanks for making the trip up to the Arlington fly-in this year. I really
> appreciated your sharing your knowledge and tips with us and hope you'll
> consider coming back. I learned a lot about making my fairings fit, and
> what not to do with a heat gun!
>
> Thanks again,
> Dave Burton
> RV6
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <flyingrv(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Subject: Re: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
>
>
> >
> > Alan,
> >
> > Thanks for passing on the location of my web site: www.fairings-etc.com.
> >
> > Bob
> > Fairings-Etc
> > bob@fairings-etc.com
> > >
> > > From: alan(at)reichertech.com
> > > Date: 2005/08/21 Sun PM 01:11:45 EDT
> > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > > Subject: RV-List: RE: Fairings, Etc, for Horizontal Stab
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.fairings-etc.com
> > >
> > > - Alan
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Gang,
> > >
> > > Exactly where is the "fairings-etc" website referenced below?
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > Pedro
> > >
> > > RV-4 N562PW
> > >
> > > << Alternately, I've looked at the fairings-etc site. From the pics, it
> > > looks
> > > like they have their own mounting screw locations, so these 10 places
> > > aren't even
> > > being used, correct?>>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Alan Reichert
> > > Priv, Inst, SEL
> > > RV-8 N927AR (reserved)
> > > Prepping Horizontal/Vertical Stabilizers for Assembly
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
>>>>Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
Got your answer Matt. Asked our resident airline/airplane/aviation trivia guru,
and this is his reply and my reply to him...
Scott
N4ZW RV-4
>>>Some guys on the RV list thought it was a computer spoof/simulation or R/C model
-I (strongly) didn't think so... too real in too many ways. I did notice
no control deflection... thought control lock might be it... or I thought mabye
C/G. Interesting. Explains guy's comments too -although he seems more disappointed
that the hard work is down the drain than that someone died.
Zachary Grant wrote: This was a test flight of the turbine
conversion for the DHC Buffalo that somebody was working on. The control
lock was still found engaged in the wreckage. Continuous pitch up with accelleration,
Classic VMC roll to the right, crash. If you look real close there
is no noticable control deflection.
-Zach
SCOTT SPENCER wrote:
any idea what happened here?
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Weiler" <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
| Subject: | Slick mag wiring |
Here is probably a dumb question.
I have Slick 4370 mags on my Aerosport 0-360-A1A on my RV-4. I am doing the
annual and after flying this airplane for 2 years I wonder whether I have
the P-lead/ground wiring correct (now it has been running OK all this time).
On this mag, right next to the P lead terminal is a screw to which I have
attached the shield of my wires going to the ignition switches. BUT.. next
to this location is a tapped hole marked GRD. Should I have the shield wire
connected here? Or does it matter??
Doug Weiler
RV-4
Hudson, WI
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
Dear Matt, Mr. Suspicious:
It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened in Canada on
date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people died, OK.
Subject: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com>
Looks to me like a CG (Computer Graphics) event. I have no idea what
type of plane this is but of you pause the player to take a close look
at the plane it is just too smooth, no windows, no doors, nothing looks
right (to me). If you also notice right at impact the POV camera drops
down and then returns to the crash where there is fire. From my limited
experience it is much easier to place the "fire" plugin's in motion vs.
having to start the CG fire from scratch.
Mr. Suspicious
RV-4
200 Hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> |
Does anyone have a -4 check list handy? I am creating one from scratch
and am not 100% about some of the speeds etc... Having a guide would
definitely help. Email or Fax would be great.
Thanks,
Robin
RV-4
200 Hours
Robin(at)MrMoisture.com
805-541-9517 Fax
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | GMC <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
Silicone does not stick to Saran wrap / Cling wrap and it can be used as
a release agent on one side of the gasket. It's hard to get the cling
wrap positioned without wrinkles.
George in Langley BC
>
>Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) said:
>
>
>>
>>Anyone know of a good release agent for silicone or proseal?
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
to get along together. Once used spray silicon as a release agent for
molding some fiberglass parts. Big mistake, never was able to get a
good paint job on those parts.
Steve Eberhart
Steve,
First, it is silicone that you need to worry about. Silicon is no problem.
Even some silicones are paintable.
Second, there are silicone paint additives that you can add to the paint to
over come the low surface tension of the dimethyl silicone which causes the
fisheye type problems. Auto body shops repaint cars all the time that have
been polished with silicone containing products.
Would diffentently not recommend using silicone sprays as release agents for
molding fiberglas parts. The resin will pick up someof the free fluid. But
keeping the silicone totally out of the hangar is not necessary.
If you ever repaint your parts, go to the your paint supplier and purchase a
paint additive. It should cure your painting problem. The paint store can
recommend which additive to use.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flynlow" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
My two cents:
If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows on the
cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look right. I do not
see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe it is a very large
model and not a real aircraft. There may have been a real aircraft that
crashed in the same manner on the date indicated, however I believe the
video is a fake.
Bud Silvers
Colorado Springs, CO
Worken on an 8.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of
gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
Dear Matt, Mr. Suspicious:
It is was a real airplane (de Havilland DHC-4 Caribou), It happened in
Canada on date indicated, aircraft took off for a test flight, three people
died, OK.
Subject: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com>
Looks to me like a CG (Computer Graphics) event. I have no idea what
type of plane this is but of you pause the player to take a close look
at the plane it is just too smooth, no windows, no doors, nothing
looks
right (to me). If you also notice right at impact the POV camera drops
down and then returns to the crash where there is fire. From my
limited
experience it is much easier to place the "fire" plugin's in motion
vs.
having to start the CG fire from scratch.
Mr. Suspicious
RV-4
200 Hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Matt Dralle
Subject: RV-List: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
Hi Listers,
Does anyone know the story behind this aircraft and the crash? Almost
looks like an RC model especially given the cameraman's rather
unemotional comment following the crash. Kind of looks like the
elevator may have been hooked up backwards following a rebuild.
http://media4.big-boys.com/content/oldplanecrash.wmv
Any information on this video would be intersting.
Matt
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
On 08/30 1:02, GMC wrote:
> Silicone does not stick to Saran wrap / Cling wrap and it can be used as
> a release agent on one side of the gasket. It's hard to get the cling
> wrap positioned without wrinkles.
I learned that if I use the "sticky" cling wrap that they sell
now you can get it on the bottom side of the cover plate very
smoothly and it sticks to it so you don't have to worry about
it shifting/bunching.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
On 13:24:36 2005-08-30 "flynlow" wrote:
> If you stop the video and look closely at the aircraft the windows on
> the cockpit are painted black. The landing gear does not look right.
> I do not see any door on the side of the aircraft, etc. I believe it
> is a very large model and not a real aircraft. There may have been a
> real aircraft that crashed in the same manner on the date indicated,
> however I believe the video is a fake.
The plane:
If you look closely at the video you can see daylight through the cockpit
windows as it passes by the camera. It looks like you might even be able
to make out the pilot for a couple of frames, but i'm not certain of that.
As it lifts off you can see through the fuselage and out the other side
through the side windows. You can also see what looks like a strobe or
beacon on the underside of the fuselage. The gear legs are to scale, and
you can even see the scissors on them.
That's an awful lot of detail to go to to make a model.
Also, an RC model would accelerate faster, and be more jerky in it's
movements, during the takeoff run and what little flight time it had.
The scene:
The perspective from the camera is correct for an average video camera
shooting a Caribou on takeoff. If it were a model filmed to look like it
was real, the perspective wouldn't be right.
If you watch the impact as the airplane hits the ground (just before the
camera drops away from view), you can see a crash and dust cloud that
matches in scale with what you would expect from a large airplane hitting
the ground, not with a model hitting the ground.
The scale of the flames also matches with what you would expect from a
large fire, not a burning RC model.
Sorry, but the video is real.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
Dale Ensing wrote:
>
> If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
> silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
> to get along together. Once used spray silicon as a release agent for
> molding some fiberglass parts. Big mistake, never was able to get a
> good paint job on those parts.
>
> Steve Eberhart
>
> Steve,
> First, it is silicone that you need to worry about. Silicon is no problem.
> Even some silicones are paintable.
> Second, there are silicone paint additives that you can add to the paint to
> over come the low surface tension of the dimethyl silicone which causes the
> fisheye type problems. Auto body shops repaint cars all the time that have
> been polished with silicone containing products.
> Would diffentently not recommend using silicone sprays as release agents for
> molding fiberglas parts. The resin will pick up someof the free fluid. But
> keeping the silicone totally out of the hangar is not necessary.
> If you ever repaint your parts, go to the your paint supplier and purchase a
> paint additive. It should cure your painting problem. The paint store can
> recommend which additive to use.
> Dale Ensing
Thank you.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:Battery charge |
I dumped my gel-cel battery and put in an Odyssey battery to enable a start
EVERY time in my RV-4. The gel-cel would run down if it didn't start in 10
- 12 revolutions. The odyssey has never quit cranking , even while I was
learning hot-start procedures.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Rozendaal" <dougr(at)petroblend.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
While this real vs fake conversation is interesting, we are missing the
point. Whether the video is real or not is immaterial, those of us who read
the excellent stuff on the link that Kevin Horton posted learned that some
highly experienced pilots with lots of experience climbed in an airplane and
departed with the controls locked. They made a mistake and paid for it with
their lives.
Now the standard pilot response to this and the "Never Again' articles is,
"that guy was an idiot, I am not an idiot, I don't have a problem." Great
theory, but the problem is, highly experienced pilots with good judgement
and skills do idiodic things and get killed in this business with great
regularity.
The point of this is to cause us to pause and think.
Is there anyone on this list with more than 100 hours TT who will swear they
have never taken off with out doing a control check? If there is, I would
like to meet them. We all make mistakes, once in a great while the stars
line up wrong and a small mistake gets us. You say, "forgetting the control
lock is a big mistake." True. But Cockpit Resource Management says that we
acknowledge that we make mistakes and employ procedures to trap those
errors. The real mistake here was the failure to check the control freedom
before take-off. Good CRM or Standard Operating Procedures would have
trapped the error.
Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle hours
thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in our normal
flying and the standard operating procedures that we should use to trap
them? .
Tailwinds,
Doug Rozendaal
BTW my vote is real.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
On 14:55:12 2005-08-30 "Doug Rozendaal" wrote:
> Instead of arguing about a low resolution video, let's spend our idle
> hours thinking about, and discussing honestly, the errors we make in
> our normal flying and the standard operating procedures that we
> should use to trap them?
Good points, Doug.
I prefer to have redundant checks, to reduce the likelihood that i'll miss
something. To that end, when I first get in the aircraft, before belting
up, I do a control check. Ailerons, elevators, rudder. If something is
amiss, I can get out easily to fix it since i'm not belted up yet.
After my startup and post start-up checks are completed, I do another
controls check to confirm that i'm still free and clear now that the belts
are secure, the engine is running, and i'm ready to move.
Finally, after i've taxiied to my run-up area and completed my run-up, I do
a third check to see that nothing has shaken loose along the way and jammed
something.
I was taught this procedure as part of my PPL, and to the best of my
memory, I have yet to make a flight where I haven't made a full controls
check before takeoff. I know that I have missed one of the three on more
than one flight, and maybe two of the three on a couple of flights.
Two things keep me on my toes in this regard. One, since i'm still
building my RV, I fly a variety of aircraft right now, and i'm not the only
pilot on any of them... So I want to be sure that someone else hasn't left
it with an unmarked snag. Two, i've also read about crashes that could
have been avoided with a pre-flight controls check, most notably an RV that
crashed at the Arlington show a few years ago. Say what you will about
morbid fascinations with accident reports, but I think I learn something
from each one I read.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
>You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
>seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
>perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact area
was very small.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
>Is there anyone on this list with more than 100 hours TT who will swear they
>have never taken off with out doing a control check?
I always do a control check which includes visual verification of the proper
response to control stick/rudder movement.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Checklist |
These sites had RV-6 manuals so finding RV-4 items should be easy:
http://www.vansairforce.org/POH/RV-6_1/poh.html
http://www.astro.wisc.edu/~anderson/RV6-POH.html
http://www.vansairforce.org/POH/
Ron Lee
>Does anyone have a -4 check list handy? I am creating one from scratch
>and am not 100% about some of the speeds etc... Having a guide would
>definitely help. Email or Fax would be great.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <bdube(at)al.noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Battery charge |
Ouch, 9 volts is VERY discharged. You will need to cycle this
battery a couple of times to get it working correctly.
(I know just a bit about batteries. See http://www.KillaCycle.com)
Lead-acid batteries of all types can be damaged by leaving them
discharged for extended periods. Absorbed glass mat (AGM) lead-acid
batteries are especially sensitive to being left discharged. You probably
have lost some capacity in your battery if you have left it discharged for
awhile.
You need to get a charger that is set up for sealed batteries, NOT
flooded batteries. I have a Sears charger that seems to run the correct AGM
profile when set to "gel cell".
My preferred AGM charger is a 15 volt Toshiba laptop power supply.
(I bought about 100 of them surplus awhile back and I discovered that they
deliver just about the perfect profile for charging AMG batteries.) They
put out just over 15 volts at the end of the charge, which is just about
perfect. The only drawback is that I must remember to disconnect this power
supply not long after the battery charges up. I can't just leave it
connected and forget about it, because it does not drop down to 13.4 volts
when the charge is complete, like a quality automatic charger would.
After you have charged up the battery, run it down to about 11
volts with a landing light or some other modest load. Charge it back up,
discharge it again, then charge it. This should make the battery happy.
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
//737 that crashed in Fountain CO
The impact areas usually are very small. But the debris field, while concentrated,
are not necessarily this limited.
This "plane" was not travelling very fast. And as you can see by the video, there
isn't a large crater. In the split second when the cameraman, for some unexplained
reason, takes a shot of the ground (he wasn't running...he didn't appear
to move...he didn't drop the camera), where did all the debris go?
Answer? It was never there in the first place.
Just the fuel alone would "splash" in a crash like that. And it would splash everywhere.
It obviously ignited. But it's impossible to believe that the fuel
was confined to this small an area, that all the debris stopped bouncing, the
flame ignited completely (as opposed to still being in the process of developing),
the smoke plume was fully matured in the approximately 1/4 second we didn't
get to see.
There were, what, 4 propellors (or was it 2?) spinning rapidly at the time of the
crash. Where'd they go?
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> >You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
> >seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
> >perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
>
> If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact area
> was very small.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
//737 that crashed in Fountain CO
The impact areas usually are very small. But the debris field, while concentrated,
are not necessarily this limited.
This "plane" was not travelling very fast. And as you can see by the video, there
isn't a large crater. In the split second when the cameraman, for some unexplained
reason, takes a shot of the ground (he wasn't running...he didn't appear
to move...he didn't drop the camera), where did all the debris go?
Answer? It was never there in the first place.
Just the fuel alone would "splash" in a crash like that. And it would splash everywhere.
It obviously ignited. But it's impossible to believe that the fuel was
confined to this small an area, that all the debris stopped bouncing, the flame
ignited completely (as opposed to still being in the process of developing),
the smoke plume was fully matured in the approximately 1/4 second we didn't
get to see.
There were, what, 4 propellors (or was it 2?)spinning rapidly at the time of the
crash. Where'd they go?
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Ron Lee
You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact area
was very small.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
On 16:54:28 2005-08-30 bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net wrote:
> If this had been actual video, you would be able to get at
> least one section of the prop circle that was more defined than
> another.
The video of the props as they pass the camera are consistent for an 8mm
film (this flight was being filmed with an 8mm film camera). Which
accounts for the low resolution of the images, and the poor framerate. The
whole airplane is out of focus for most of the flight, it's not surprising
that the props would be too.
> You will also note, especially if you freeze the
> presentation on impact, that the debris is instantly -- once you get
> past the convenient shot of the ground...replaced by the fire, which is
> already blazing. Moreover, the smoke is already well into the sky.
There is a definite cut in time between the camera dropping and then
cutting back to the film of the fire. Would you have been able to stand
there filming continuously? I know I couldn't. Chances are you'd have at
least dropped your arms to your sides in abject horror at what you'd seen.
This cameraman was obviously rooted to the spot, and only after a few
seconds (minutes?) was able to pick the camera up and film some more,
capturing the fire already burning.
Anyway, that's my last post on the topic. If you want to believe it's
fake, then do so and drop it. Listen to Doug's advice instead and focus on
the details of the crash, why it happened, and how future pilots could
avoid it happening to them.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
//My vote says its real. If it was a model hitting the ground, the right
wing would not have crumpled that way.
It wasn't a model either. It was computer generated.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
//The video of the props as they pass the camera are consistent for an 8mm
film (this flight was being filmed with an 8mm film camera). Which accounts
for the low resolution of the images, and the poor framerate. The whole
airplane is out of focus for most of the flight, it's not surprising that
the props would be too.
I didn't find the props out of focus, I found the frame rate inconsistent.
But who filmed this? I'd like to talk to him, cuz that sure doesn't look
like 8 MM film and I'm interested in finding out how he could encode 8mm
film and actually get it this sharp.
//There is a definite cut in time between the camera dropping and then
cutting back to the film of the fire. Would you have been able to stand
there filming continuously? I know I couldn't. Chances are you'd have at
least dropped your arms to your sides in abject horror at what you'd seen.
Yeah, probably right. I probably would've been saying something as it
happened too.
//Anyway, that's my last post on the topic. If you want to believe it's
fake, then do so and drop it. Listen to Doug's advice instead and focus on
the details of the crash, why it happened, and how future pilots could avoid
it happening to them.
We all know how it can be avoided. What's to discuss?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Bellcrank washers |
Now that we've moved past the black helicopters, I'd like to return to
building RVs for just a minute.
There are washer callouts for the elevator bellcrank assembly. These are
5702-95-30, which are used in the event of a bearing failure.
I believe these are STEEL plated. But I notice in fitting them today that
they rust fairly easily. I've stored mine in a plastic case since March and
given a fairly humid summer in fly-over country, they've already started to
rust.
I'd rather not put these on my plane.
Is there a reason why stell-plated washers are used here rather than, say,
an anodized aluminum washer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
ya know, i bet it was frickin real over the crew, right up to the last
moment.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
In a message dated 8/30/2005 8:36:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
steve(at)newtech.com writes:
If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
to get along together.
==============================
Then how come you can easily paint over sand (virtually 100% silicon)? And
I defy you to keep it out of your hangar.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 758hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Bellcrank washers |
Hi Bob,
Stainlees steel washers might be an alternative choice to the supplied
cadmium plated ones.
Jim in Kelowna
>
> Now that we've moved past the black helicopters, I'd like to return to
> building RVs for just a minute.
>
> There are washer callouts for the elevator bellcrank assembly. These are
> 5702-95-30, which are used in the event of a bearing failure.
>
> I believe these are STEEL plated. But I notice in fitting them today that
> they rust fairly easily. I've stored mine in a plastic case since March
> and
> given a fairly humid summer in fly-over country, they've already started
> to
> rust.
>
> I'd rather not put these on my plane.
>
> Is there a reason why stell-plated washers are used here rather than, say,
> an anodized aluminum washer/
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derrick Aubuchon <n184da(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Checklist |
Robin,
I made checklists that fit on both sides of an standard, letter-size
(8 1/2 x 11) page, which I then laminated as thick as possible.
"Stole" this idea from some airlines who cram all of the basic B-737
checklists on the same space,, so I figure if a B737 checklist will
fit, then I should not have a problem with an RV-4!
Works great. Simple, easy to find, and no pages to fumble with.
If you are curious, I can send you a file off list.
Regards,,
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA
Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
On Aug 30, 2005, at 12:46 PM, Robin Marks wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a -4 check list handy? I am creating one from scratch
> and am not 100% about some of the speeds etc... Having a guide would
> definitely help. Email or Fax would be great.
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Robin
>
> RV-4
>
> 200 Hours
>
>
> Robin(at)MrMoisture.com
>
> 805-541-9517 Fax
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
The impact area would be very small as the aircraft hit almost vertical.
M
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash?
>
>
>>You know, I've covered a lot of plane crashes in my business. I've never
>>seen one quite like this where there is NO debris outside an almost
>>perfectly circular ring of fire (that is, itself, quite concentrated).
>
> If you look at the 737 that crashed in Fountain CO in the 90s the impact
> area
> was very small.
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: silicone or proseal release agent |
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> In a message dated 8/30/2005 8:36:18 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
> steve(at)newtech.com writes:
>
> If you are ever considering painting your plane, I would keep all
> silicon products out of the hanger. Silicon and paint just don't like
> to get along together.
>
>
> ==============================
>
> Then how come you can easily paint over sand (virtually 100% silicon)? And
> I defy you to keep it out of your hangar.
>
> GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 758hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
You are right. I made three mistakes. I mistakenly left the "e" off of
silicone when I replied, I was thinking of silicone spray rather than
silicone caulking and I replied to a posting on the RV-LIST. Three
strikes and you are out.
By guys,
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A, fuselage kit ships October 24th
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Bellcrank washers |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
Hmm, steel plated eh. I'm guessing they are all steel. ;-) The bearings are
made from a steel so you don't want to put aluminum up against it because there
is a better than average chance they will wear. With aluminum being much softer
the chance of wear will go up greatly compared to steel on steel.
Use stainless as Jim suggested or just make sure they have an adequate coating
of a rust inhibitor like ACF, grease, or CorrosionX.
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
Subject: RV-List: Bellcrank washers
Now that we've moved past the black helicopters, I'd like to return to building
RVs for just a minute.
There are washer callouts for the elevator bellcrank assembly. These are 5702-95-30,
which are used in the event of a bearing failure.
I believe these are STEEL plated. But I notice in fitting them today that they
rust fairly easily. I've stored mine in a plastic case since March and given a
fairly humid summer in fly-over country, they've already started to rust.
I'd rather not put these on my plane.
Is there a reason why stell-plated washers are used here rather than, say, an anodized
aluminum washer/
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Checklist |
If you don't mind Derrick, I would also like a copy of your checklist. I have
been adding items to mine for quite a while now and possibly your list is
more complete.
Thanks a lot!
CLYDE SEAGER
RV-4 N28CS
245 hr.
Pensacola,Fl.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Acetone as fuel additive? |
This was the subject of discussion today at work. Sure sounds promising.
One of my coworkers is trying it out in his late 80's GMC 1500 Sierra.
Might work in our Lycosaurs? Any way we can improve combustion of that
liquid gold sounds great to me.
http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com> |
| Subject: | Formation Videos back in stock |
The Formation Flying instructional videos are now back in stock. My
apologies to all who have been waiting for these. All backorders are going
out today.
Thanks for your patience,
Andy Gold
Builder's Bookstore
http://www.buildersbooks.com/flying_skills_sport.htm
800 780-4115
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kevin Shannon" <kshannon(at)seanet.com> |
| Subject: | RV-8 canopy skirt |
I agree Rich, all you can do with the RV-8 canopy skirt is cut it up and
use it for parts to lay up your own.
Kevin Shannon
200 HP -8
68 hours
The canopy skirt on the "8" is a pain. I fit mine the best I could and
then
started cutting. I used a 2" cutting wheel in a die grinder and spilt
the
skirt in two at the back and horizontally near the top in the radius
area
forward about two feet from the rear. I also had to cut vertically at
the
bottom of the curve where it starts the straight bottom edge going
forward.
Basically you cleco it down where it fits and cut where you have to get
the
best fit. Put wax paper against the fuselage and using fiberglass paste
it
back together while taping it against the fuselage, then, when setup,
fiberglass the back side. Then sand and file and sand and fill and
grind
and sand and when you fly your wife will still complain about cold air
coming forward from the back. Give her a towel to put back there to
stop it
and do a roll, it won't stop the air coming in, the towel does that, but
you'll feel better. The cold air doesn't get up to you anyway.
Rich Crosley
N948RC RV-8 80 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Acetone as fuel additive? |
I'd be a bit concerned about what Acetone might do to the fuel tank sealant
as well as fuel line seals/gaskets/grommets.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Acetone as fuel additive?
>
> This was the subject of discussion today at work. Sure sounds promising.
> One of my coworkers is trying it out in his late 80's GMC 1500 Sierra.
> Might work in our Lycosaurs? Any way we can improve combustion of that
> liquid gold sounds great to me.
>
> http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/
>
> Brian Denk
> RV8 N94BD
> RV10 '51
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Derrick Aubuchon <n184da(at)volcano.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Checklist |
Hello Clyde,
These are the front and back images of the card.
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA
Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
On Aug 31, 2005, at 6:48 AM, REGAES(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> If you don't mind Derrick, I would also like a copy of your
> checklist. I have
> been adding items to mine for quite a while now and possibly your
> list is
> more complete.
>
> Thanks a lot!
>
> CLYDE SEAGER
> RV-4 N28CS
> 245 hr.
> Pensacola,Fl.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Acetone as fuel additive? |
In a message dated 08/31/2005 9:17:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
_http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/_
(http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/)
Brian-
You know what really bothers me about this article ?? When I open the
referenced site, I see a header that says " Pantone out on
Bail.........................." and then I go to that article and find out that
he is under
indictment for investor fraud. Where there is smoke there is fire.
This is snake oil !!!!!!
They are wanting to sell that Scan "Guage" as it is shown on page 10 of 11.
BClary
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | PJ Seipel <seipel(at)seznam.cz> |
| Subject: | Re: Acetone as fuel additive? |
I agree. One of the links is to a directory for "Fuel Saving
Technologies". Just so happens this month's Popular Mechanics magazine
tested several of them. None that were tested had any positive impact
on fuel economy, several had negative, one caught on fire, and one was
so poorly constructed they did not use it because they feared it would
be sucked into the engine and damage it.
One of his first statements is that "Complete vaporization of fuel is
far from perfect in today's cars and trucks." This is untrue. Fact is
that your engine burns about 99% of the fuel delivered to it. Best you
can do is 100%, so if you improve combustion by 1% that equates to 1%
better fuel economy. His numbers don't add up.
PJ
UFOBUCK(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>In a message dated 08/31/2005 9:17:05 A.M. Central Daylight Time,
>akroguy(at)hotmail.com writes:
>
>_http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/_
>(http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/)
>
>Brian-
>
>You know what really bothers me about this article ?? When I open the
>referenced site, I see a header that says " Pantone out on
>Bail.........................." and then I go to that article and find out that
he is under
>indictment for investor fraud. Where there is smoke there is fire.
>
>This is snake oil !!!!!!
>
>They are wanting to sell that Scan "Guage" as it is shown on page 10 of 11.
>
>BClary
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Acetone as fuel additive? |
>_http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/_
>(http://pesn.com/2005/03/17/6900069_Acetone/)
>
>Brian-
>
>You know what really bothers me about this article ?? When I open the
>referenced site, I see a header that says " Pantone out on
>Bail.........................." and then I go to that article and find out
>that he is under
>indictment for investor fraud. Where there is smoke there is fire.
>
>This is snake oil !!!!!!
>
>They are wanting to sell that Scan "Guage" as it is shown on page 10 of 11.
>
>BClary
Interesting indeed! Nothing is ever as it seems, but one must keep an open
mind. Lots of discussions going on on the web from those who swear it
works, those who swear at it, and those who just like to swear.
The guy at work who is trying it out will be reporting his results in a few
weeks. For the volatility reasons mentioned, it's not suitable for our
Lyco's. I forgot about that little issue! My engine is carbureted and the
vapor lock boogey man has never come to visit. I rather doubt it would
cause any issues, as the recommended ratio is 3 oz acetone to 10 gallons
gas. But, it's not worth adding another unknown to the aviation risk
factor. We have enough already.
Thanks for the great feedback folks.
Brian Denk
RV8 N94BD
RV10 '51
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Flying RV-6 FOR SALE |
RV-6 N757L $75,000
475 hrs. TT Engine, Prop and Airframe since New, Always Hangered,
Sensenich Fixed-Pitch Prop 86", 0-360-A1A (180 hp) new from AeroSport
Aviation (Bart & Sue), RMI Engine Monitor, 60Amp ExpBUS, Dual Brakes, LASER
Electronic Ignition (both mags)(EZ Start!!), Reiff Engine Pre-Heat, King
KX-155, KI-209 CDI, KLX-135 GPS/COM, KT-76 Transponder,TruTrak DigiTrak
AutoPilot, RST Audio Panel, Marker Beacon, AmeriKing ELT and Canopy Cover.
Robert Lynch 573-893-2291 rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net> |
. AVAILABLE FOR SALE . New RV-8A. Under Construction, Available in 2 months or
less, (just add your own paint scheme!). IO-360-B1B (180hp), Hartzell Constant-speed
prop, electric trim and flaps, PMA Audio Panel, GLC-250XL GPS/COM, Garmin
327 Transponder, TruTrak Autopilot w/Alt hold, RMI engine monitor. Built by
professional RV builder. . Contact Robert Lynch - located Jefferson City, MO
USA . Telephone: 573-893-2291 . $91,000
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Wire marking labels |
Just purchased a Dymo Rhino5000 =96 great little machine for printing labels.
The really neat part is that you can purchase 6mm & 9mm yellow shrink wrap
tubing to print on. Printing can be wrap around the shrink wrap horizontally
or vertically, print sizes from extra small (really very very small) to very
large (limit would be half the tubes circumference. Got it from
labelcity.com =96 good prices, fast delivery.
This solution is obviously costlier than using transparent shrink wrap on
paper standard printer labels but what a great time saver, and a
professional looking job to.
I thought I=92d contribute this tidbit.
Michele Delsol
RV8 fuselage
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | FW: Aviation Laboratories, has temporarily closed the New Orleans |
(Kenner)
facility
This may interest those who use Aviation Laboratories for oil analysis.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Aviation Laboratories <mailserver(at)avlab.com>
Subject: Aviation Laboratories, has temporarily closed the New Orleans
(Kenner) facility
Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 21:40:45 GMT
Aviation Laboratories, a leading provider of laboratory services, has been
forced to temporarily close their New Orleans (Kenner) facility due to
Hurricane Katrina. Although the laboratory suffered only minimal damage from
the hurricane (at 5' elevation it is a high point in Kenner and will not
flood), there are no water or power services to the area and laboratory
personnel are under mandatory evacuation orders, so the laboratory has been
temporarily closed. For those Aviation Laboratories customers who sent
samples to the Kenner facility last week, please contact Aviation
Laboratories so they can track the shipment. For those Aviation Laboratories
customers who are sending samples, please send them to the Houston
laboratory at Aviation Laboratories, 5401 Mitchelldale Street, Suite B6,
Houston, Texas 77092. If you have any questions or require additional
information, please contact Aviation Laboratories at 800-256-6876 or
sales(at)avlab.com. If you know of anyone who may not have received this email
message but uses Aviation Laboratories for their laboratory services, please
pass this message along to them.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Mcmahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Fall Classic RV Fly-in |
----- Original Message -----
From: John Mcmahon
Subject: Fall Classic RV Fly-in
To inform everyone that we are having again this year our EAA Chapter 863
Fall Classic RV Fly-in on Sept 17th at (M54) Lebanon,Tn
20 miles east of Nashville,Tn.Mike Seager will be there for RV
instruction the 16th17th and 18th.
There will be aircraft judging and food etc..For instruction time slots
call me at home and I will set you up..
John McMahon (RV6 863JJ)
615-452-8742
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Super 8 performance data |
KAHUNA-Hi nice numbers great web page-TOM DO NOT ARCHIVE
TOM WHELAN
WFACT01(at)AOL.COM
TEL-203-2665300 FAX 203 266-5140
AIRPORT-CT01-----122.725
RV-8-SP-IO-540-350+HP---55HRS-ANGLE VALVE-AIRFLOW-LIGHTSPEED-FOIL MOD 3
BLADE---SMOKE-
S-51-MUSTANG-TURBINE
F-24 FAIRCHILD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Newburg" <newburg(at)bellsouth.net> |
I have an IO360 Lycoming 5 hrs since Major Overhaul by Don George in
Orlando Fla.
This is a 180 HP with Airflow Performance fuel injection system.
Engine includes all accessories except the alternator.
Price is $12000
I also have a Fixed Pitch Prop and Christen Inverted System available.
Jason Newburg
735 Airpark Rd
Hangar 9C
Edgewater Florida
32132
386 426 6093
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N901DT" <N901DT(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Engine for sale |
I am interested in your inverted oil system. Who much are you asking? What
condition is it in ( in the box, once installed, etc. )?
David Grover
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Newburg" <newburg(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: Engine for sale
>
>
> I have an IO360 Lycoming 5 hrs since Major Overhaul by Don George in
> Orlando Fla.
> This is a 180 HP with Airflow Performance fuel injection system.
> Engine includes all accessories except the alternator.
> Price is $12000
>
> I also have a Fixed Pitch Prop and Christen Inverted System available.
>
>
> Jason Newburg
> 735 Airpark Rd
> Hangar 9C
> Edgewater Florida
> 32132
>
> 386 426 6093
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Double Eagle NM RV Fly-in, 8-9 Oct 2005 |
Double Eagle RV Fly-in
8-9 October 2005
Where: Albuquerque NM Double Eagle II airport (KAEG);
<http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAEG>http://www.airnav.com/airport/KAEG
Fly-in principles: No scheduled events. Nice area with a variety of
events to keep spouses happy. The main attraction is the Balloon
Fiesta that ends this weekend. Intended for a quick weekend getaway.
FBO: Bode
Aero:
<http://www.flybode.com/deairport.htm>http://www.flybode.com/deairport.htm
Airport restaurant: Prop Wash Caf=E9, 505-831-2359
Cost: None. No registration fee. Attendees are responsible for hotel
and car reservations. The FBO suggested making car reservations
through tem.
Miscellaneous: Bring your own tiedown ropes/straps/etc. Please email
ronlee(at)pcisys.net if you intend to come to
ensure that ramp space does
not become a problem. Non-RV aircraft welcome.
Aviation issues: Note that the Albuquerque airspace is not far from AEG
(to the east). Mountains are nearby. Density altitude can be high so
understand impact to flight (such as engine mixture leaning and higher
take-off and landing groundspeeds)
Hotels: Many in the Albuquerque area. Those listed below were checked
27-28 June 2005. Strongly suggest making reservations as early as possible.
Hotels listed below in three groups based upon distance from airport (AEG)
and the balloon park. This is nowhere near a complete listing. Another
source for making reservations is
here: <http://www.nmtravel.com/bfres/>http://www.nmtravel.com/bfres/ or
888-398-5537 (Press 2 for reservations). Most prices exclude taxes. In
general I tried to price a single bed (usually king) and two adults
Group 1: Reasonably close to the balloon park on the north end of town (I-25)
Comfort Inn, 5811 Signal Ave NE, Albuquerque, NM 87113, (505) 822-1090, $125
Ramada Limited, 5601 Alameda Blvd NE, Albuquerque, NM 87113, (505)
858-3297, $139
Holiday Inn, 5401 Alameda Blvd NE, Albuquerque, NM 87113, (505) 797-2291, Full
Courtyard, 5151 Journal Center Blvd NE, Albuquerque, NM 87109, (505)
823-1919, $169
Albuquerque Pyramid Marriott, 5151 San Francisco Rd NE, Albuquerque,
NM 87109, (505) 821-3333, $189
Amberly Suite Hotel, 7620 N Pan American Fwy NE, Albuquerque, NM 87109,
(505) 823-1300, $59 (Std), $79 (suite)
Howard Johnson Express Inn, 7630 N Pan American Fwy NE, Albuquerque,
NM 87109, (505) 828-1600, $115
Baymont Inns and Suites, 7439 S Pan American Fwy NE, Albuquerque,
NM 87109, (505) 345-7500, $70
Hampton Inn, 5101 Ellison St NE, Albuquerque, NM 87109, (505) 344-1555, $134
Quality Suites, 5251 San Antonio Dr NE, Albuquerque, NM 87109, (505)
797-0850, Full
La Quinta Inn, 5241 San Antonio Dr NE, Albuquerque, NM 87109, (505)
821-9000, $139
Group 2: Rio Rancho area to NW of Balloon Park (6-7 miles)
Days Inn Rio Rancho, 4200 Crestview Dr SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124, (505)
892-8800, $90
Ramada Limited, 4081 High Resort Blvd SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124, (505)
892-5998, $100 (limited rooms)
Super 8 Rio Rancho, 4100 Barbara Loop SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124, (505)
896-8888, $95
Best Western Inn, 1465 Rio Rancho Blvd SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124, (505)
892-1700, Full
Hilton, 1771 Rio Rancho Blvd SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124, (505) 896-1111, $129
Marriott, 4100 Sara Rd SE, Rio Rancho, NM 87124
Group 3: 12 miles from the airport (KAEG) (south of I-40 at Exit 153) and
about 13 miles to the Balloon Park near I-25 exit 233 (north part of
Albuquerque)
La Quinta, 6101 Iliff Rd NW, Albuquerque, NM 87121, (505) 839-1744, $140
Holiday Inn Express- West, 6100 Iliff Rd NW, Albuquerque, NM 87121, (505)
836-8600, $120
Super 8, 6030 Iliff Rd NW=92 Albuquerque, NM 87121, (505) 836-5560, $54
Days Inn =96 Albuquerque West, 6031 Iliff Rd NW, Albuquerque, NM 87121, (505)
836-3297, $89-$99
Comfort Inn West, 5712 Iliff Rd NW, Albuquerque, NM 87105, (505) 836-0011,
$115
Red Roof, 6015 Iliff Rd NW, Albuquerque, NM 87121, (505) 831-3400, $70
Rental Cars: Bode Aero uses Enterprise, 505-922-1440, Midsize $43,
Standard $46, Full $49. Make a reservation to ensure car in there when
you arrive. I have not yet checked other rental car agencies.
Things to do:
1) Balloon
Fiesta: <http://www.balloonfiesta.com/>http://www.balloonfiesta.com/
Saturday night has a balloon glow and fireworks with a mass ascension
Sunday morning. Schedule at
<http://www.balloonfiesta.com/scripts/index/list_events_total.php>http://www.balloonfiesta.com/scripts/index/list_events_total.php
2) Sante Fe is close to the
north. <http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSAF>http://www.airnav.com/airport/KSAF
Sante Fe website at <http://www.santafe.org/>http://www.santafe.org/
3) Petroglyph National
Monument: <http://www.nps.gov/petr/>http://www.nps.gov/petr/
4) Hiking in Albuquerque:
<http://www.localhikes.com/MSA/MSA_0200.asp>http://www.localhikes.com/MSA/MSA_0200.asp
http://www.trails.com/advancedfind.asp?keywordAlbuquerque&stateNM&activities&page1
<http://www.cabq.gov/openspace/lands.html>http://www.cabq.gov/openspace/lands.html
5) Sandia Peak Tram: <http://www.sandiapeak.com/>http://www.sandiapeak.com/
Bike rentals to ride down the mountain.
6) Albuquerque Visitors
Website: <http://www.abqcvb.org/>http://www.abqcvb.org/
Note: Balloon Fiesta is a trademark of the Albuquerque International
Balloon Fiesta, Inc
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? |
On 20:40:02 2005-08-31 "Dean Van Winkle" wrote:
> The Caribou was not turbine powered. It had two Pratt and Whitney
> R-2000 piston engines of 1,450 shp each. The later Buffalo had
> turboprops and a T tail.
Sorry Dean, but this one was.
This aircraft was a DHC-4T conversion, using Canadian Pratt & Whitney PT-6
engines. It was c/n 240, originally delivered to the Kenya Air Force as
KAF 204. Later registered to New Cal Aviation as 5Y-BER and N400NC.
Converted to PT-6 engines in Canada and had about 25 hours test flying
under EXPERIMENTAL category when it crashed on takeoff at Gimli Industrial
Airpark, Manitoba, 27 Aug 92.
I've been researching this through a contact in the Canadian Museum of
Flight... He recalls seeing this video being shown at a Transport Canada
booth at a PAMEA tradeshow a number of years ago, and at the time the
Transport officials claimed it was actual footage of the crash. They
wouldn't have much reason to lie about it. They said that the film was one
of the strongest pieces of evidence that the control locks engaged during
takeoff, as you can see the controls don't move once it's off the ground.
Another friend pointed out what is probably the most compelling argument
for this being a real video... Why would someone go to the trouble to
create a CGI video of a crash of an obscure Canadian aircraft? It's not
historically significant. If they did re-create it, why would they make it
blurry, poorly framed, and miss most of the most interesting few seconds
(the crash and fire starting)?
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jason Newburg" <newburg(at)bellsouth.net> |
Unit is removed from a Pitts S1 being parted out (undamaged)
I have all the components. Spruce price on new system 801-4 is $666
I can sell you this used system for $350. Aircraft has 5 hrs since new.
Jason
----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N901DT
Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine for sale
I am interested in your inverted oil system. Who much are you asking?
What
condition is it in ( in the box, once installed, etc. )?
David Grover
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Newburg" <newburg(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-List: Engine for sale
>
>
> I have an IO360 Lycoming 5 hrs since Major Overhaul by Don George in
> Orlando Fla.
> This is a 180 HP with Airflow Performance fuel injection system.
> Engine includes all accessories except the alternator.
> Price is $12000
>
> I also have a Fixed Pitch Prop and Christen Inverted System available.
>
>
> Jason Newburg
> 735 Airpark Rd
> Hangar 9C
> Edgewater Florida
> 32132
>
> 386 426 6093
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D Paul Deits" <pdeits(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire marking labels |
Where does the tape come from? Exact description please.
----- Original Message -----
From: <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com>
Subject: RV-List: Wire marking labels
>
> Just purchased a Dymo Rhino5000 =96 great little machine for printing
labels.
> The really neat part is that you can purchase 6mm & 9mm yellow shrink wrap
> tubing to print on. Printing can be wrap around the shrink wrap
horizontally
> or vertically, print sizes from extra small (really very very small) to
very
> large (limit would be half the tubes circumference. Got it from
> labelcity.com =96 good prices, fast delivery.
>
>
> This solution is obviously costlier than using transparent shrink wrap on
> paper standard printer labels but what a great time saver, and a
> professional looking job to.
>
>
> I thought I=92d contribute this tidbit.
>
>
> Michele Delsol
>
> RV8 fuselage
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire marking labels |
One other alternative is the machine I have described here
(see entry dated 9/12/04)
http://www.rv7-a.com/avionics_panel_2.htm
It will accept 3mm tapes, small enough to label 18GA wire
and I labelled all wires, even smaller than 18 with it
sucessfully.
At around $300 it's not the cheapest but I was able to label
every single wire without any real effort/time wasted.
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | RV building toward A&P license |
Has anyone used their time & expereince building an RV toward getting an A&P
license?
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Wire marking labels |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
You know, that if you can print small, you make your own labels and put
clear shrink tubing around it and put them on. I use some typing paper
and print it out then cut it out and put a length wise crease with my
thumb nail and slip it into a piece of tubing that I cut about 1/4"
longer (each end) I get my shrink tubing from McMaster Carr.
Small tubing for everything up to ?#16 is P/N 7856K133 "Clear" (
1/8" down to 1/16") I've used a lot of tubing, I'd recommend at
least 25 to 30' or so for your project. I also ordered the next size PN
7856 K15_ for the bigger wires and some 7856K173 "Clear"( 1/2 to 1/4")
for the larger power wires. Works nice and CHEEP. Got my heat shrink
gun from Nuckhols / B&C Speciaties 6 years ago. Still working after my
first build.
Found it on top of page 688, Polyolefin color coded thin wall
tubing Cat #109 cheaper by the 25' roll. Specify the color to be
clear. 2:1 shrink ratio.
Jim Nelson
RV9-A QB (wiring again)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> |
| Subject: | Wire marking labels |
Picked up a used Kroy 2500 (like on E-bay for $40.
Shrink tape cost is $29-30.
Great machine
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tasker
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wire marking labels
The tape is specified as 0.15 or 6mm diameter - depending on whether you
are buying it in the US or overseas. If we assume it is actually 0.25"
wide, the diameter is 2 x .25 / pi = .16" OD which probably equivalent
to 0.125" ID sleeving. This will work with #20 and #22 just fine (it
shrinks up to 3:1). The 9mm is 50% larger or approximately 3/16" ID.
While this printer is quite cheap, the tape is quite expensive - $25 -
27 for five ft, of shrink sleeving.
An alternative is to find a used Kroy 2500 or 5100 which would be about
the same price. Or a Kroy PC3000 if you can hook it up to a computer
(for about $100). The sleeving cost is $29 -30 for 110" (9.2 ft) for
all these printers. Of course, they will all also make labels -
permanent or not-so-permanent.
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> |
| Subject: | Wire marking labels |
I picked up a used Kroy 2500 on E-bay for $45.
Great way to mark wiring plus its portable, battery powered.
Great when under the panel.
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Tasker
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wire marking labels
The tape is specified as 0.15 or 6mm diameter - depending on whether you
are buying it in the US or overseas. If we assume it is actually 0.25"
wide, the diameter is 2 x .25 / pi = .16" OD which probably equivalent
to 0.125" ID sleeving. This will work with #20 and #22 just fine (it
shrinks up to 3:1). The 9mm is 50% larger or approximately 3/16" ID.
While this printer is quite cheap, the tape is quite expensive - $25 -
27 for five ft, of shrink sleeving.
An alternative is to find a used Kroy 2500 or 5100 which would be about
the same price. Or a Kroy PC3000 if you can hook it up to a computer
(for about $100). The sleeving cost is $29 -30 for 110" (9.2 ft) for
all these printers. Of course, they will all also make labels -
permanent or not-so-permanent.
Dick Tasker
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Wire marking labels |
I just use a fine point permanent marker and write on
the heat shrink before I shrink it. Not quite as
beautiful as a label maker, but seems to work fine.
Here are some pictures:
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 041208204446995
Mickey
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (proof) |
I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
Yes it happened and Yes there was a video taken.
The video was confiscated by the accident investigation authorities and was held.
When the investigation was over the video was never to be released ti the public
by request of the next of kin, but they allowed it to be retained for internal
use as a training video. Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the Internet.
There is another tragedy.
It is the real deal. A Vietnam pilot with 6,000 hrs of Caribou time (not Buffalo),
the Son of the companies president, the pilot and a young engineer riding
along died.
This was NOT the first flight. IT had 25 hours.
The final conclusion was inconclusive except the the pilot was not able top control
the aircraft. Gust lock engagement is the theory but there was not enough
left to determine conclusively (melted). The gust lock lever BTW falls across
the throttle levers, so the throttles can not be move until the gust lock is
disengaged. The other theory was the elevator jack screw (trim) was frozen or
failed and the plane was way out of trim for full flaps, but no one (no one) is
100% sure. A tragedy to be sure.
As far as all the computer tricks and RC model theories, I can tell you turbo prop
blades turn at slower RPMs, you can see gear doors and details that looks
just like picture's of this model aircraft and you can see into and thru the cockpit
windows and fuselage windows.
Thank you
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (proof) |
> I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
What company is that?
>Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the
> Internet. There is another tragedy.
So the company had the film and someone spirited it out and posted in on the Internet?
Was the cameraman -- the guy on tape -- an employee of the company? Did
you get his name?
I'll take your word for it that it's real.
I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
What company is that?
Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the
Internet. There is another tragedy.
So the company had the film and someone spirited it out and posted in on the Internet?
Was the cameraman -- the guy on tape -- an employee of the company? Did
you get his name?
I'll take your word for it that it's real.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)speedyquick.net> |
| Subject: | Which spark plug? |
Last week I ordered a set of spark plugs for my 0-320-D1A. The table in the
Spruce catalog showed REM40E as the specified flavor.
When I went to replace them, the original plugs in the engine (new from
Lycoming) were REM38E which is a colder version.
Lycoming service instruction 1042x lists both the 40 and 38 as approved.
Anyone know the pros/cons of the two, or is there no practical difference?
Thanks,
Ed Bundy
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org> |
| Subject: | Trutrak ADI Internal GPS |
Hello Again,
I've decided to install the Trutrak ADI, does the internal GPS option require a
separate GPS antenna? I have a Garmin panel unit, and was wondering if I should
tie into the existing GPS antenna, or if the term "internal" includes the antenna.
Thanks,
Paul Richardson
RV6A 106RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV building toward A&P license |
Building an RV would only qualify you for the airframe license if you were
working with a license mechanic that would sign you off stating you worked
with him for at least 18 months performing certain maintenance tasks in
different areas such as ice and rain control systems, hydraulic and
pneumatic systems, fire protection systems, cabin and atmosphere control
systems, welding, ice and rain control systems, aircraft covering (dope and
fabric), landing gear systems (including hydraulic), just to mention a few
of the basic systems you are required to gain experience. If an A&P signs
you off just by building an RV, in my opinion, he is watering down the value
of having earned an A&P by those of us that got it by learning all the
systems required through experience or by going to school for two years to
learn all required systems other than sheet metal, flight control rigging,
and electrical. Maybe that is why we only make pennies and A&P's are leaving
the field by the droves. Forget about engine experience required which
requires more than just mounting the engine. The answer to your question is
yes you can probably find someone to pencil whip you and sign you off, but
it's not right.
Mike Harris
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV building toward A&P license
>
> Has anyone used their time & expereince building an RV toward getting an
> A&P
> license?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
| Subject: | Garmin 396 (Very Long) |
Howdy,
I've had my 396 for a week now, and considering delivery time there may
still be a lot of people that are curious about it, so here are my
impressions.
First, I hate cords around the cockpit, so you can tell I like the 396
because it has one, two, three, four of them and I am still using the unit.
Quite a challenge to get them all running the proper directions so the stuff
they go to works and the cords don't get in your way. The GPS antenna and
the XM antenna are completely separate and the GPS antenna cord is a lot
longer. This makes me wonder if Garmin, as much as I respect them, knows
much about their customers.
The GPS antenna is quite easy to place. You may not even need the external
antenna, but if you do, that antenna can go pretty much anyplace, like just
up on the glareshield. This is the one that has the long cord.
The XM antenna has a short cord but it needs much better sky coverage to
work well and just to make things really challenging, Garmin put a strong
magnet in it with an admonition to not open or tamper with the unit (like to
pull the stupid magnet off). The magnet means you cannot, at least in my
plane, put the antenna anywhere near the glareshield, yet the cord is not
long enough to put it much of anywhere else. There is an extension supplied
for this antenna, but that makes the cord really really long with way too
much cord to deal with.
The magnetic base on the XM antenna is probably so you can slap it on the
roof of your car to go storm chasing, but I find it works works well inside
the car just slung up on the dash under the windshield.
Experimenting a bit I finally hit on the idea of using the magnetic base to
attach that antenna to the base supplied with the GPS antenna, that is
intended for suction cup mounting. There is room there and everything.
Oops, that base is aluminum, just like my airplane and so the magnet is
worthless, again, except to mess up the compass.
So I have ended up with the 396 mounted on Garmin's marine mount that is in
turn mounted to an imstrument hole cover that is in a convenient place.
This leaves barely enough XM antenna cord to run back to the pilot's seat
back along the side of the cockpit. There the GPS antenna with its mount is
velcroed to the top of the seat back, partially under the upholstery and the
XM antenna is insecurely wire tied to that same mount. The two cords are
wire tied together.
I really think integrating the two antennas or a least making a mount that
can accept both of them would be a better idea.
Another cord hooks up to the audio system for the XM radio audio and the
aural warnings. I have subscribed to the radio to see if I use it or not.
So far I like it (I also have XM radio in my car). I have used an IPod in
the plane with the miniature earbuds under my headset. I found that the
fidelity is lost in the noisy airplane, and the earbuds hurt after I while.
I enjoy the XM radio through mono aircraft headsets, just as well, at least
at a low level and some nice classical music while showing passengers the
wonders of the canyons of the Guadalupes should be great.
The other cord is power. The 396 has a useful, rechargable, battery and for
now I plan to carry the power cord but only use it as needed. If you are
flying all day, you will need it, at least at high screen backlighting
levels.
I am finding the screen extremely readable under all conditions.
I have done quite a bit of testing of the obstruction and terrain alert
functions. This is a big reason I got this unit and it has worked
flawlessly. Even if you are not on the terrain page, a little window comes
up showing the obstruction in relation to the airplane, with distance rings.
At the same time Mrs. Garmin warns you about the obstruction or terrain
aurally.
The biggy, of course, is weather. I'm completely hooked on that part. It
is amazing to fly along with such situational awareness. There is the
lightning, there is the rain, there is the front and there are the TFR's. A
significant drawback is that the weather is not available immediately but
the important things are available pretty quick. The weather is downloaded
sequentially and some items are not updated very often. The other day I
made a 20 minute flight where the satellite photo never did appear. What
did appear though, were the thunderstorms and lightning along my route, in
relation to terrain and towns and roads and how the cells were moving. I do
find it a little disorienting that the pure weather products, like winds
aloft forecast, are always north up, whereas the navigation map superimposed
weather is course up or north up, whatever you have chosen.
I won't comment on the many other functions such as auto autorouting with
voice guidance, astronomical and all the other Garmin stuff that always
works well.
Other than all the cords and the nonintegrated antennas and useless magnets
and the supplied stick on mount that will not attach to anything on the GPS,
I am pretty well stunned.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Wire marking labels |
www.labelcity.com
This is my order and pricing:
SL# ItemCode Item Description Qty Price Discount Amount
1 15517 DYMO RhinoPRO 5000 Label Printer 1 $89.00 $0.00 $89.00
2 18052 RhinoPRO 1/4" Yellow Heat Shrink Tubes 1 $26.10 $0.00 $26.10
3 18054 RhinoPRO 3/8" Yellow Heat Shrink Tubes 1 $28.20 $0.00 $28.20
4 18486 RhinoPRO 1/2" Metallized Permanent Label 1 $12.30 $0.00 $12.30
I have not yet looked at the metallized one. The yellow heat shrink are
great.
The machine comes with a roll of wide black type on white label. It uses 6
AA 1.5 volt cells or a 9V charger.
Michele
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-
> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D Paul Deits
> Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 5:54 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Wire marking labels
>
>
> Where does the tape come from? Exact description please.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: Wire marking labels
>
>
> >
> > Just purchased a Dymo Rhino5000 =96 great little machine for printing
> labels.
> > The really neat part is that you can purchase 6mm & 9mm yellow shrink
> wrap
> > tubing to print on. Printing can be wrap around the shrink wrap
> horizontally
> > or vertically, print sizes from extra small (really very very small) to
> very
> > large (limit would be half the tubes circumference. Got it from
> > labelcity.com =96 good prices, fast delivery.
> >
> >
> > This solution is obviously costlier than using transparent shrink wrap
> on
> > paper standard printer labels but what a great time saver, and a
> > professional looking job to.
> >
> >
> > I thought I=92d contribute this tidbit.
> >
> >
> > Michele Delsol
> >
> > RV8 fuselage
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV building toward A&P License |
Yes, I built a Christen Eagle in 1980 and a local A&P, AI, gave me a letter saying
it was worth 2000 hours of experience and it worked. He was also the guy
that gave me the practical A&P test. If you can work it out they might want
to check your work along the way.
Rich Crosley
RV8 N948RC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | BBreckenridge(at)att.net |
| Subject: | Re: Motivation for builders |
1.25 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO
Alex;
The really cool part about your story is being able to glance up above my computer
as I read and look at your picture gracing Van's calendar for the month of
(gulp!) September!
Bruce Breckenridge
40018 Rudder
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Garmin 396 (Very Long) |
| From: | "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net> |
XM, unlike Sirius, also uses ground repeater stations besides the two sats. If
you can put it somewhere where you can get a view of the sky and ground you
will get better reception. Personally I think Sirius's programming is better
but I get much more drop out due to the single sat and no ground stations than
the XM stuff (I have both).
Michael Sausen
-10 #352 Wing LE's
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Pardue
Subject: RV-List: Garmin 396 (Very Long)
Howdy,
I've had my 396 for a week now, and considering delivery time there may still be
a lot of people that are curious about it, so here are my impressions.
First, I hate cords around the cockpit, so you can tell I like the 396 because
it has one, two, three, four of them and I am still using the unit.
Quite a challenge to get them all running the proper directions so the stuff they
go to works and the cords don't get in your way. The GPS antenna and the XM
antenna are completely separate and the GPS antenna cord is a lot longer. This
makes me wonder if Garmin, as much as I respect them, knows much about their
customers.
The GPS antenna is quite easy to place. You may not even need the external antenna,
but if you do, that antenna can go pretty much anyplace, like just up on
the glareshield. This is the one that has the long cord.
The XM antenna has a short cord but it needs much better sky coverage to work well
and just to make things really challenging, Garmin put a strong magnet in
it with an admonition to not open or tamper with the unit (like to pull the stupid
magnet off). The magnet means you cannot, at least in my plane, put the
antenna anywhere near the glareshield, yet the cord is not long enough to put
it much of anywhere else. There is an extension supplied for this antenna, but
that makes the cord really really long with way too much cord to deal with.
The magnetic base on the XM antenna is probably so you can slap it on the roof
of your car to go storm chasing, but I find it works works well inside the car
just slung up on the dash under the windshield.
Experimenting a bit I finally hit on the idea of using the magnetic base to attach
that antenna to the base supplied with the GPS antenna, that is intended for
suction cup mounting. There is room there and everything.
Oops, that base is aluminum, just like my airplane and so the magnet is worthless,
again, except to mess up the compass.
So I have ended up with the 396 mounted on Garmin's marine mount that is in turn
mounted to an imstrument hole cover that is in a convenient place.
This leaves barely enough XM antenna cord to run back to the pilot's seat back
along the side of the cockpit. There the GPS antenna with its mount is velcroed
to the top of the seat back, partially under the upholstery and the XM antenna
is insecurely wire tied to that same mount. The two cords are wire tied together.
I really think integrating the two antennas or a least making a mount that can
accept both of them would be a better idea.
Another cord hooks up to the audio system for the XM radio audio and the aural
warnings. I have subscribed to the radio to see if I use it or not.
So far I like it (I also have XM radio in my car). I have used an IPod in the
plane with the miniature earbuds under my headset. I found that the fidelity
is lost in the noisy airplane, and the earbuds hurt after I while.
I enjoy the XM radio through mono aircraft headsets, just as well, at least at
a low level and some nice classical music while showing passengers the wonders
of the canyons of the Guadalupes should be great.
The other cord is power. The 396 has a useful, rechargable, battery and for now
I plan to carry the power cord but only use it as needed. If you are flying
all day, you will need it, at least at high screen backlighting levels.
I am finding the screen extremely readable under all conditions.
I have done quite a bit of testing of the obstruction and terrain alert functions.
This is a big reason I got this unit and it has worked flawlessly. Even
if you are not on the terrain page, a little window comes up showing the obstruction
in relation to the airplane, with distance rings.
At the same time Mrs. Garmin warns you about the obstruction or terrain aurally.
The biggy, of course, is weather. I'm completely hooked on that part. It is amazing
to fly along with such situational awareness. There is the lightning,
there is the rain, there is the front and there are the TFR's. A significant
drawback is that the weather is not available immediately but the important things
are available pretty quick. The weather is downloaded sequentially and some
items are not updated very often. The other day I made a 20 minute flight
where the satellite photo never did appear. What did appear though, were the
thunderstorms and lightning along my route, in relation to terrain and towns
and roads and how the cells were moving. I do find it a little disorienting that
the pure weather products, like winds aloft forecast, are always north up,
whereas the navigation map superimposed weather is course up or north up, whatever
you have chosen.
I won't comment on the many other functions such as auto autorouting with voice
guidance, astronomical and all the other Garmin stuff that always works well.
Other than all the cords and the nonintegrated antennas and useless magnets and
the supplied stick on mount that will not attach to anything on the GPS, I am
pretty well stunned.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV building toward A&P license |
Check out this months Sport Aviation...page 108..you might like the answer,
depending on your local FSDO.
RV-6A N60CE , Test flying over .
Charlie Ennis
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (proof) |
WOW BOB:
>I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
>>What company is that?
(http://www.penturbo.com/ I TALKED TO Joe Wolf, Vice President.)
(INITIAL FLT TEST DONE IN CANADA BEFORE MOVING TO NJ, WHERE COMPANY IS LOCATED)
>Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the
>Internet. There is another tragedy.
>>So the company had the film and someone spirited it out and posted in on the
Internet?
>>Was the cameraman -- the guy on tape -- an employee of the company? Did
>>you get his name?
(WOW you have so many questions, that have been answered already, DEE DA DEE, here
we go again. The FAA, kept the video for training as allowed by next of kin.
I have been to FAA training presentations on how accident investigations are
done, which used actual videos of cashes taken by people on ground and even
from inside the accident aircraft. These videos are used by the FAA. Now who leaked
the video (stole it)? I don't know or care. Call the widows and ask, may
be they had a copy and posted it on the internet?)
>>I'll take your word for it that it's real.
(GEE THANKS)
>I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
>>What company is that?
(FOR THE SECOND TIME http://www.penturbo.com/ )
>Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the
>Internet. There is another tragedy.
>>So the company had the film and someone spirited it out and posted in on the
Internet?
>>Was the cameraman -- the guy on tape -- an employee of the company? Did
>>you get his name?
(WOW, PAY ATTENTION THIS TIME, DEE DA DEE. THE AUTHORITIES RETAINED THE VIDEO FOR
TRAINING PURPOSE AND WAS NOT TO BE RELEASED BY REQUEST OF THE FAMILIES OF THE
DECEASED. GEE, NO I DON'T HAVE NAMES OF WHO LEAKED IT. CALL THE WIDOW'S AND
ASK THEM.)
>>I'll take your word for it that it's real.
(AGAIN 2ND TIME, GEE THANKS, BUT I DON'T CARE WHAT YOU THINK)
(NOW DO THE MATH> REAL CRASH + KNOWN VIDEO TO EXIST + 13 YEARS AGO + INTERNET
VIDEO APPEARS = REAL VIDEO. WHY WOULD SOME ONE FAKE A 13 YEAR OLD CRASH? )
(ALL YOU COMPUTER EXPERTS, R/C MODEL EXPERTS TAKE A REALITY CHECK, REAL PLANES
CASH AND REAL VIDEOS ARE TAKEN.)
Match: #6
Message: #133108
From: bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (proof)
Date: Sep 01, 2005
> I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
What company is that?
>Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the
> Internet. There is another tragedy.
So the company had the film and someone spirited it out and posted in on the Internet?
Was the cameraman -- the guy on tape -- an employee of the company? Did
you get his name?
I'll take your word for it that it's real.
I called the company that was involved. Yes the Video is real.
What company is that?
Well Like Pam and Paris it was leaked to the
Internet. There is another tragedy.
So the company had the film and someone spirited it out and posted in on the Internet?
Was the cameraman -- the guy on tape -- an employee of the company? Did
you get his name?
I'll take your word for it that it's real.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (proof) |
----- Original Message -----
From: gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Subject: RV-List: Re: Anyone Know The Story Behind This Crash? (proof)
>(ALL YOU COMPUTER EXPERTS, R/C MODEL EXPERTS TAKE A REALITY CHECK, REAL PLANES
CASH AND REAL VIDEOS ARE TAKEN.)
Yep, I'm a computer flightsim expert, & R/C "crash" expert!!!!! Done both for
years, and never doubted the authenticity of this video for one second!
L.Adamson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Martin Hone" <mctrader(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re:Which spark plug? |
Hi Ed,
I think your choice of spark plug would depend on how hard you run that
O-320. If you are regularly flying at 75% then go for the colder heat
range, whereas if you are cruising a lot back at 65%, or have occasional
plug fouling, then go with the warmer UREM40E's or the ones with the
extended tip (UREM37BY). I will be trying the Autolite fine wire plugs
(UREM38S) at the next Annual in my O-320 D1A.
Cheers
Martin in Oz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Marty" <martorious(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Motivation for builders (Gopher issue) |
>
>They still create soil conditions that once in the past caused a
>soft tissue injury to my ankle that took a year to heal.
>
Ouch. I turn my ankle all to often, so I feel your pain. I'm all for
thinning the subterranean rodent population, although here in Indiana
it's moles.
Marty in Indiana
RV-8A Preview plans in Hand
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Travis Hamblen" <TravisHamblen(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | RV-6 cowling for sale |
A friend of mine has a RV-6 Cowl for sale. It is in perfect and unused
condition, new from Vans. He went with one of the custom cowl and plenum
setups so he has no need for the one supplied by Vans. It is a RV-6 cowl
and includes the attachable carb inlet molding. He said that Vans charges
$980.00 plus shipping, he will sell his for 50% off Vans price. So I guess
the first $490 plus shipping can have it. If you are interested you can
contact him direct:
David Robb
(702) 645-2926 home
DavidRobb(at)earthlink.net
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Trutrak ADI Internal GPS |
Dear Paul,
The Trutrak ADI with the internal GPS feature includes a separate GPS
antenna. It is about the size of a half dollar coin and includes an
integral magnetic base as well as about 5' of electric cord and plugs into
the back of the ADI. I mounted my antenna on a shelf on the firewall near
the top on the engine side. This works well as long as you do not have a
metallic fleck paint on the cowl.
Dick Martin (Trutrak test pilot)
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org>
Subject: RV-List: Trutrak ADI Internal GPS
>
>
> Hello Again,
> I've decided to install the Trutrak ADI, does the internal GPS option
> require a separate GPS antenna? I have a Garmin panel unit, and was
> wondering if I should tie into the existing GPS antenna, or if the term
> "internal" includes the antenna.
> Thanks,
> Paul Richardson
> RV6A 106RV
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "flynlow" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net> |
Do we have any attorneys on this list that could answer a question for me
regarding liability and the sale of a homebuilt airplane? Please contact me
off list if you can give me some advice.
Thanks in advance.
Bud Silvers
Black Forest, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)speedyquick.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Which spark plug? |
Thanks for the input Martin. I do most of my flying at 65%, and the hotter
plug makes sense.
BTW, the top rear plugs have always been tricky to replace due to the
proximity of the baffles. I've found a 7/8" socket that is just the right
depth to grab the plug but short enough to fit. And after replacing the
Champions with Unison, I come to discover that the Unison's barrel is about
1/2" LONGER than the Champion, requiring a longer socket that doesn't fit
inside the baffle. Argh.
BTW, for anyone needing plugs, Air Power at www.factoryengines.com is
selling Unison plugs for $8.95 until October 14th (I assume this doesn't
include fine wires). Even with $14(!) shipping, $86 is a terrific price for
a new set of plugs.
Ed Bundy
> I think your choice of spark plug would depend on how hard you run that
> O-320. If you are regularly flying at 75% then go for the colder heat
> range, whereas if you are cruising a lot back at 65%, or have occasional
> plug fouling, then go with the warmer UREM40E's or the ones with the
> extended tip (UREM37BY). I will be trying the Autolite fine wire plugs
> (UREM38S) at the next Annual in my O-320 D1A.
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hal Rozema <hartist1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: legal question |
Email EAA
lynlow wrote:
>
>Do we have any attorneys on this list that could answer a question for me
>regarding liability and the sale of a homebuilt airplane? Please contact me
>off list if you can give me some advice.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
>Bud Silvers
>Black Forest, Colorado
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Re: legal question - another but maybe not legal question |
I have been meaning to ask this question, but seems now is a good time. I
have an RV-6 almost ready to fly. Taking to the airport on Monday. I have
registered the airplane in my name but now want to transfer it into a
corporation I set up.
What are the consequences of transfering either before the airworthiness or
after? I would prefer to transfer now, but how might this affect the
process? Will I still be able to get the repairmans certificate?
Anyone that could help with these questions, would be appreciated.
Tim
RV-6 N616TB
-------Original Message-------
From: flynlow
Date: 09/03/05 07:23:59
Subject: RV-List: legal question
]\
Do we have any attorneys on this list that could answer a question for me
regarding liability and the sale of a homebuilt airplane? Please contact me
off list if you can give me some advice.
Thanks in advance.
Bud Silvers
Black Forest, Colorado
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: legal question |
I know of an article which might help you with some of the concepts.
Check out: http://www.avweb.com/news/avlaw/181900-1.html
That might answer some of your questions.
There are only two aviation insurance policies which offers liability
protection for the sale of the aircraft. One is AVEMCO, and the other is
AIG, and to get that coverage added on AIG's policy one must ask for their
expanded endorsement which costs $65.
It has yet to be tested in court really, but the original intent of that
coverage was for production aircraft (i.e. poor maintenance causing a
failure and subsequent crash with injuries and damage to the plane shortly
after the purchase of the plane). It really has yet to be tested as to
whether or not this coverage would also cover a builder. The language
doesn't specify (which basically means it would be covered.)
I don't believe that was the intent of the insurance companies when they
wrote those coverages, and if (when) it gets tested in court, they'll
likely be forced (by state insurance commissioner or the state courts) to
offer legal defense coverages, and offer up to the limits of the policy
for that liability. Any ambiguity on an insurance policy automatically
goes to the benefit of the insured and they haven't specifically excluded
coverage for one as the builder/assembler of the plane. (see language in
the referenced article for legal definition of Manufacturer, assembler,
etc.)
I believe that shortly after they're forced to defend someone and pay out
for someone's liability as the builder, the companies will likely change
the wording to better define what they intend to cover (and exclude
liabilities incurred as the builder, assembler, and manufacturer.) But
for now, I believe that coverage would cover you under any and all of
those definitions as it's not specifically defined or excluded.
Avemco specifically defines how long after the policy is terminated that
coverage extends (obviously you're going to cancel the policy when you
sell it, and it's obviously a coverage that extends beyond that date.)
Even if you didn't cancel the policy, the coverage technically ends when
you change the ownership of the plane (sign the FAA bill of sale) and
don't notify the insurance company. (so leaving the policy in force
doesn't accomplish anything.)
AIG has told me that all coverages cease when the policy does, but I
believe that would be easily challenged in court as well as it's obviously
a coverage designed to protect you after you sell the plane.
I'm not an attorney, but I did sleep at a Holiday Inn last night... lol.
I am an aviation insurance agent though really. Hope that helps.
JT
>
> Do we have any attorneys on this list that could answer a question for me
> regarding liability and the sale of a homebuilt airplane? Please contact
> me
> off list if you can give me some advice.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Bud Silvers
> Black Forest, Colorado
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re:Which spark plug? |
Ed Bundy wrote:
>
> Thanks for the input Martin. I do most of my flying at 65%, and the hotter
> plug makes sense.
August 22, 2005 - September 03, 2005
RV-Archive.digest.vol-rf