RV-Archive.digest.vol-rj

October 23, 2005 - November 06, 2005



      >>>
      >>> Our switch lay is as follows:
      >>>
      >>>      Top -  Center - Coolie hat (Trim - Elev and Airl)
      >>>                   Left - Flap ( Toggle - momtenarty > Up and Down)
      >>>                  Right - Start button (relay req)
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >
      >
      
      
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Date: Oct 23, 2005
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: attaching plenum
You only have to remove less than half of them to get access to the top plugs. With an electric drill the whole thing comes apart in a few minutes. I would not use Dzus or similar, for the same reason as piano hinges. Dzus fasteners to do hold as tight as a screw and the lid will vibrate and fret. You could probably make do with less screws than I used, as mine is a little over-built. Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: attaching plenum
Date: Oct 23, 2005
I am hopefully near completion of fitting a carbon fiber plenum built by Jon Johanson to the Superior IO-360-B1B (180 hp) from Aerosport Power in my RV-8A. The plenum is designed so that it goes over the top of the engine and wraps down the sides and is held in place by the valve cover bolts on the cylinder heads. The back of the plenum is held in place by piano hinges to the rear baffles. The only part that has really given me problems is trying to figure out the right way to mate the front of the plenum to the cowl air inlets. Terry Seattle -------------- Original message -------------- > > > I friend of mine attached a fiberglass plenum on an -8A. He did it just as Dan described. Shortened the baffles a little, fit .032 angle around the Perimeter of the baffles, laid up the plenum over the engine, drilled downward through the .032 angle, then installed nutplates on the bottom of the angle. Used screws and tinnermans on the plenum. Works great. (and looks great). I have the Airflow Performance Purge valve assembly on my 7A, and I too plan on installing a glass plenum, but I've had to do some re-thinking of the geometry of the purge valve arm and linkage to make it fit under a penum...it will work! > > > > Bob Brown > > 7A - fitting lower cowl @$#%@# > > Darn that Ryton sump! My advice, think twice... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2005
From: Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Beaded end on aluminum tube
George, I asked an A&P friend of mine and he said don't worry about it as it is a low/no pressure fitting with a rubber hose. Made sense to me, others may disagree. I had a different probelm -- cracked flange fitting on head end of tube. Greg in Honolulu George Inman wrote: I have to make new oil return lines on two cylinders,because they interfere with the wire holding bottom of the baffles. These aluminum tubes have a bead where it enters the hose to the crankcase. SEE http://www.mts.net/~ghinman/Bead.html What tool do I need to make these? George Inman Home 204 287 8334 Cell 204 799 7062 --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 23, 2005
Subject: Re:Beaded end on aluminum tube
You need a tubing beading tool. Better get them done by some shop than buy the tool. My old Navy buddy had one & he did mine. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2005
From: BOB L WATSON <bob194bn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: attaching plenum
The way I did my plenum was one piece of .025 for the top deck of plenum no glass to get hot and perfect heat sheild for upper cowl.five wires to pull out after removeing five screws secureing the five wires.total access to upper area of engine.no frit,no crack,no problem, 387.3 hr,s Vans even liked it. at last years homecoming.Bob Watson N194BN, You only have to remove less than half of them to get access to the top plugs. With an electric drill the whole thing comes apart in a few minutes. I would not use Dzus or similar, for the same reason as piano hinges. Dzus fasteners to do hold as tight as a screw and the lid will vibrate and fret. You could probably make do with less screws than I used, as mine is a little over-built. Jeff > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2005
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: camera in the tail
Looks like a real nice find. I'd go for it. lucky wrote: > >Larry and anyone knowedgeable, what do you guys think about this >EXVIEW Sony HD230CWX Color PTZ Bullet SPY Camera 520Res Digital Pan+Tilt+3x Zoom+Remote Control High Definition camera which comes with a remote function pad. If the link below out of ebay doesn't work try the QVC store link below. > >http://cgi.ebay.com/EXVIEW-Sony-HD230CWX-Color-PTZ-Bullet-SPY-Camera-520Res_W0QQitemZ5762792893QQcategoryZ48634QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >http://www.qvcvideo.com/main/products/?category=13&bcat=54 > >Seems like overkill but it was a Sony and it has cheaply prices lenses with different FOV. I can get the widest FOV lense for $15.00. >I just don't know how good it works on "auto" if you leave the remote key pad alone. > >Lucky >-------------- Original message -------------- > > > >> >>I think I found a website that lets you figure out from the spec sheet what the >>FOV is and it also let's you see the effect of different FOV from the same spot. >> >>Go to the web site below and click on the link to "Compare FOV" >> >>http://viosport.com/store/customer/ourgear.php?page=ac3_overview >> >>It looks like the 88 degree or 2.9mm lense is the one I'm probably wanting. >> >>lucky >> >>-------------- Original message -------------- >> >> >> >>> >>>Hi Lucky >>> >>>What about a camera on the wing? I am currently testing a wing-mount for my >>>Videocamera. I made it from fiberglass and ACRYL-FOAM. It just gets taped to >>>the wing and you can take it off in a minute. >>> >>>http://www.rv-4.de/gallerie/Detail1_img/KHF.jpg >>> >>>A Testvideo ist here: >>> >>>http://www.rv-4.de/videos.htm >>> >>>Happy Landings >>> >>>Thomas, RV-4 >>> >>> >>>-- >>>Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! >>>Satte Provisionen fr GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>I think I found a website that lets you figure out from the spec sheet what the >>FOV is and it also let's you see the effect of different FOV from the same spot. >> >>Go to the web site below and click on the link to "Compare FOV" >> >>http://viosport.com/store/customer/ourgear.php?page=ac3_overview >> >>It looks like the 88 degree or 2.9mm lense is the one I'm probably wanting. >> >>lucky >> >>-------------- Original message -------------- >> >>-- RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Lukasczyk" >> >>Hi Lucky >> >>What about a camera on the wing? I am currently testing a wing-mount for my >>Videocamera. I made it from fiberglass and ACRYL-FOAM. It just gets taped to >>the wing and you can take it off in a minute. >> >>http://www.rv-4.de/gallerie/Detail1_img/KHF.jpg >> >>A Testvideo ist here: >> >>http://www.rv-4.de/videos.htm >> >>Happy Landings >> >>Thomas, RV-4 >> >> >>-- >>Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! >>Satte Provisionen fr GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner >> >> >>he RV-List Email Forum - >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > >Larry and anyone knowedgeable, what do you guys think about this >

EXVIEW Sony HD230CWX Color PTZ Bullet SPY Camera 520Res Digital Pan+Tilt+3x Zoom+Remote Control High Definition camera which comes with a remote function pad. If the link below out of ebay doesn't work try the QVC store link below.

> >http://cgi.ebay.com/EXVIEW-Sony-HD230CWX-Color-PTZ-Bullet-SPY-Camera-520Res_W0QQitemZ5762792893QQcategoryZ48634QQssPageNameZWD1VQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem > >http://www.qvcvideo.com/main/products/?category=13bcat=54 > >Seems like overkill but it was a Sony and it has cheaply prices lenses with different FOV. I can get the widest FOV lense for $15.00. >I just don't know how good it works on "auto" if you leave the remote key pad alone. > >Lucky >-------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) > > I think I found a website that lets you figure out from the spec sheet what the > FOV is and it also let's you see the effect of different FOV from the same spot. > > Go to the web site below and click on the link to "Compare FOV" > > http://viosport.com/store/customer/ourgear.php?page=ac3_overview > > It looks like the 88 degree or 2.9mm lense is the one I'm probably wanting. > > lucky > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Lukasczyk" > > Hi Lucky > > What about a camera on the wing? I am currently testing a wing-mount for my > Videocamera > . I made it from fiberglass and ACRYL-FOAM. It just gets taped to > the wing and you can take it off in a minute. > > http://www.rv-4.de/gallerie/Detail1_img/KHF.jpg > > A Testvideo ist here: > > http://www.rv-4.de/videos.htm > > Happy Landings > > Thomas, RV-4 > > > -- > Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! > Satte Provisionen fr GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/partner > > > I think I found a website that lets you figure out from the spec sheet what the > FOV is and it also let's you see the effect of different FOV from the same spot. > > Go to the web site below and click on the link to "Compare FOV" > > http: > //viosport.com/store/customer/ourgear.php?page=ac3_overview > > It looks like the 88 degree or 2.9mm lense is the one I'm probably wanting. > > lucky > > -------------- Original message -------------- > > -- RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Lukasczyk" > > Hi Lucky > > What about a camera on the wing? I am currently testing a wing-mount for my > Videocamera. I made it from fiberglass and ACRYL-FOAM. It just gets taped to > the wing and you can take it off in a minute. > > http://www.rv-4.de/gallerie/Detail1_img/KHF.jpg > > A Testvideo ist here: > > http://www.rv-4.de/videos.htm > > Happy Landings > > Thomas, RV-4 > > > -- > Lust, ein paar Euro nebenbei zu verdienen? Ohne Kosten, ohne Risiko! > Satte Provisionen fr GMX Partner: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/part > ner > > > he RV-List Email Forum - > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Freeman <flyeyes(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Infinity grip and Van's flap possition system
Date: Oct 23, 2005
On Oct 23, 2005, at 2:58 PM, Kevin Horton wrote: > > Well, if I'm doing a hot start of my fuel injected engine, the > throttle will probably be full open, with the mixture at ICO. I > figure I'll want one hand for the throttle and mixture, a hand to > hold the stick back, and the third hand will run the starter. It > seemed easier to put a starter button on the stick than to graft on a > third hand :) (snip) Kevin, FWIW this was exactly my reasoning for putting the start switch on the stick, and the "start enable" switch on the panel. I might have even lifted the idea from your website, although I don't recall. This is one of the decisions I'm very happy with now that the airplane is flying. The hot starts are difficult, but not as bad as some installations I have seen/flown. Several years ago, the RV4 in the hangar next to me had difficulty starting his IO-360 hot and stood it up on its nose when it finally roared to life at WOT. He now has a lighter prop which moved his C of G back a little. James Freeman RV-8 N9TN flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <n1cxo320(at)peoplepc.com>
Subject: Non-receipt of RvAtor
Date: Oct 23, 2005
I never did get a copy of the last RvAtor - Van's won't even answer e-mails in this regard. Can you guess who will no longer subscribe? John at Salida, CO ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 23, 2005
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: attaching plenum
Do you have any pictures? Jeff BOB L WATSON wrote: >The way I did my plenum was one piece of .025 for the top deck of plenum no glass to get hot and perfect heat sheild for upper cowl.five wires to pull out after removeing five screws secureing the five wires.total access to upper area of engine.no frit,no crack,no problem, 387.3 hr,s Vans even liked it. at last years homecoming.Bob Watson N194BN, > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: attaching plenum
Date: Oct 23, 2005
I gave some bad information in this previous post. My plenum is attached at the sides with the large bolts threaded into the cylinder head that are used to hold the baffles; not the valve cover bolts. The sides of the plenum are cut out to fit around the valve covers. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson Subject: RE: RV-List: attaching plenum I am hopefully near completion of fitting a carbon fiber plenum built by Jon Johanson to the Superior IO-360-B1B (180 hp) from Aerosport Power in my RV-8A. The plenum is designed so that it goes over the top of the engine and wraps down the sides and is held in place by the valve cover bolts on the cylinder heads. The back of the plenum is held in place by piano hinges to the rear baffles. The only part that has really given me problems is trying to figure out the right way to mate the front of the plenum to the cowl air inlets. Terry Seattle ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 23, 2005
Subject: Re: attaching plenum
In a message dated 10/23/2005 3:14:41 PM Central Standard Time, terry(at)tcwatson.com writes: The only part that has really given me problems is trying to figure out the right way to mate the front of the plenum to the cowl air inlets. >>> Here's a simple method that has worked well on mine: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5305 They fit to: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4996 & haven't seen any problems after 240 hours operation. Mark Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: attaching plenum
Date: Oct 23, 2005
Dear Listers, There has been a lot of interest lately on plenum chambers and how to attach them to the RV8. I have one of the first plenum chambers and I installed it on my RV8 5 years ago and now have over 1200 hours on it. The following is not the only way you could do this, however it is the way I did mine with good success. I bought the plenum chamber from Sam James in 1999. It was designed by Dave Anders and friends in California in the late 1990s. It has proven to be one of the best speed modifications that I have tried on my RV8. My RV8 is equipped with first a IO360AlB6 (10-1) and now a IO390A1B6. There is no difference in the physical size etc. regarding the installation of either engine. A few minor baffle changes is all that is necessary because of the larger cylinder diameter. Installation of the plenum chamber will require you to cut out the sides where the cylinder heads are and to fit it around the valve covers for a good seal. You may have to modify the fit of the air inlet ramps in front of cylinders 1 and 2 slightly. I attached these ramps to the plenum with #8 screws and nutplates in the ramps. The plenum is secured to the cylinder bosses on 1 and 2 front with # 10 flat head machine screws with counter sunk washers and friction nuts on the crankshaft side of the cylinder head boss. The rear side of the plenum is secured to the rear engine baffle with #8 screws to nut plates on the rear engine baffle. I had to lower the fuel injection distributer approx. 3/8" by modifying the attach bracket in order to obtain proper clearance with the top shell of the plenum. I also ended up making a small bubble in the top of the plenum to accomodate the lowered fuel distributer. My airplane was on of the first RVs to use a plenum. It is possbile that the plenums now do not require the above mods. Initially, I used rubber inner tube sections to connect to the air inlet rings in the NACA (James) cowl and they worked good. Since then, I made custom fiberglass ramps to accomodate the slight misalignment of the plenum with the cowl air inlets which has impproved the performance and appearance. The addition of the plenum has proven to be a substantial speed enhancer. It is my opinion that it has added a minimum of at least 5 knots airspeed and totally eliminated engine cooling problems. For those of you who are creative and want to fabricate your own plenum, please be advised that it needs to be constructed or HIGH TEMPERATURE epoxy and cured in an autoclave. For this reason, I thought that the price SAM JAMES charges for his well engineered plenum was very reasonable. For mor information contact Sam James @863 675 4493 Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: attaching plenum > > How about #8 flush screws & tinnerman washers through the fiberglass, > going > through .025" or .032" angle along the top edge of the aluminum baffle > sides > & back, into nutplates? > > At least that's what I plan on doing when I convert to a fiberglass plenum > top at some point in the future! > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (650 hours) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net> > To: > Subject: RV-List: attaching plenum > > >> >> I am working on my engine baffles and contemplating cutting them short >> and putting a fiberglass top on rather than sealing it against the top >> cowl. It will add a lot of strength to the baffles and probably put >> less stress on the cowling. I know other builders have done this. >> >> My question is how to attach the fiberglass to the top edge of the >> baffles. A piano hinge would be good, but it is rather wide - it would >> extend down more than an inch from the top of the baffle. Also if the >> piano hinges aren't all oriented horizontally - which is hard to do - it >> seems like it would be hard to get the thing on and off. There's always >> camlocs, but they're expensive and don't distribute the load as well as >> a piano hinge. >> >> How have those of you who have done this attached the fiberglass to the >> top edge of the baffle? >> -- >> Tom Sargent, RV-6A >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Subject: Empennage Finished!
Well folks, After nine months, 294 hours and a number of re-do's, I finally finished the empennage. It is not perfect, but most of it is pretty good. I certainly think it is airworthy with only a few cosmetic defects. Just a note of thanks for all on the list that have made helpful suggestions during this, the newbie stage. On to the wings! Regards, Michael Wynn RV-8, Wings San Ramon, California ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Good engine related reading - free!
Date: Oct 23, 2005
http://www.buy-ei.com/The_Pilots_Manual_by_EI.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: SUA Map
Date: Oct 24, 2005
In the latest Sport aviation was a reference to a web site that shows all SUA in real time. Check it out at http://sua.faa.gov/atcaaSplash.jsp Scott ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org>
Subject: Re: Beaded end on aluminum tube
Date: Oct 24, 2005
George, I had a friend with an RV-4 who had a similar problem. He noticed that some safety-wire holding some baffles had started to saw a nice little slot in an oil return line. We fabricated another one (with slightly different routing) and then wanted to put a bead on the end of the tube. There seem to be two choices (three if you decide, as another list member suggested, to simply not worry about it). One is getting one of the really nice Parker-style beading tool sets. They apparently do a beautiful job but are NOT economical for one or two uses. Or, you can do what we did and get an Earls EZ-Beader. See http://www.amstreetrod.com/011ERL.php4 for details. One for the tubing we needed was less than $20 and gave him some extra peace of mind knowing that the bead was on there. The tool is about as simple as it gets ... and does a fairly good job. The bead is a bit "thinner" than what was on the original, but does fulfill the task of making it extremely unlikely that the tubing would slip out of the little rubber hose. Honestly, I don't see how it could slip out anyway given the geometry of the whole setup .... but since there was a bead there originally, we felt best adding one to the new piece of tubing if we could. So we did. -- Dwight On Sun Oct 23 13:29:39 2005, George Inman wrote : > I have to make new oil return lines > on two cylinders,because they interfere with >the wire holding bottom of the baffles. > These aluminum tubes have a bead >where it enters the hose to the crankcase. > SEE http://www.mts.net/~ghinman/Bead.html > What tool do I need to make these? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Karen and Robert Brown" <bkbrown(at)ashcreekwireless.com>
Subject: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum)
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Do you have more information on high temperature epoxy? I've researched this for quite a while and I'm stumped. TAP Plastics up here in OR is the epoxy place around here and they only say that a marine vinyl ester resin has slighty more heat resistance than epoxy resin. According to the spec sheet, using ASTM D-648, Vinyl Ester Resin has a Heat Distortion temp rating of 240F. The spec sheet notes that this is a "clear casting" rating. TAP was "not aware" of high temperature epoxy. This may make sense, especially IF THEY DON'T SELL IT. From an empirical standpoint, all the glass plenums people have made here (about 6, including some with several hundred hours) are using epoxy resin, (both those using carbon fiber and regular glass). I don't observe any softening or other degradation on these plenums, so....unless other specific info shows up on this topic, I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and use (West Systems) epoxy resin to do the carbon fiber plenum...which should be soon. Bob Brown RV7A - cowl fitted! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Van's IS everything it used to be
Date: Oct 24, 2005
From: "Stephanie Marshall" <smarshall(at)enid.org>
1.76 HTML_TAG_EXIST_MARQUEE BODY": rv-list(at)matronics.com I have to argue with the guys that are saying that Van's isn't the company they used to be. They accidentally sent our empennage kit to the wrong address (our home rather than work) and when I called to let them know they might want to look at their process they couldn't apologize enough. The manager of the shipping department later called herself to apologies, they re-funded part of the shipping, gave us an RV-8 shirt and a free rv-ator. I have NOTHING BUT GOOD to say about Vans. www.rv-8a.4t.com Stephanie Marshall Software Support Tech. City of Enid smarshall(at)enid.org 580-234-0400 X-3030 www.enid.org <http://www.enid.org/> This electronic mail message is intended exclusively for the individual or entity to which it is addressed. This message, together with any attachment, may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, print, retain, copy, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the sender and delete all copies of this message. Thank you ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Subject: Re: Beaded end on aluminum tube
In a message dated 10/24/05 8:34:56 AM Central Daylight Time, dwight(at)openweave.org writes: > These aluminum tubes have a bead > >where it enters the hose to the crankcase. > > SEE http://www.mts.net/~ghinman/Bead.html > > What tool do I need to make these? >>>> Would a VERY short flare, made with a normal flaring tool do the job? I did this on the support tubes for my Vetterman exhaust, and they seem to be holding well... Mark Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Kugler" <donkugler(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Infinity grip and Van's flap position system
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Folks, In my RV8, I used the position to the right of the top-hat on the Infinity grip for a starter button (front-seat only). I have a toggle switch on the panel located to the right of my conventional mag/starter key switch to enable the stick switch. To the left of the key switch is my fuel pump toggle switch. All three of these switches are on the left-hand sub-panel above the throttle quad. Even though you can crank the engine from the key or the stick, in over 400 hours I've only used the key to crank it once or twice, mosty just to make sure it worked. The button on the stick works great and makes for a very ergonomic arrangement. The other stick grip switches are dedicated as follows: 1) Top Right - Momentary PB for starter front seat only. No function in rear. 2) Top Center - Top-hat - pitch and roll trim, front and rear seats. 3) Top Left - Toggle for the flaps. Momentary for down, locking for up (good for go-arounds and t&gs). In the back seat it's momentary both ways so it doesn't ever get left in a position and lock out the front seat. 4) Trigger is for guns, er, PTT or course. 5) Lower pinky switch is a momentary for auto pilot interrupt (aka control wheel steering) for both the front and rear seats. 6) That leaves the switch position on the left side, halfway down which I reserved initailly and didn't initally assign a function. Having flown many hours of formation since completing the airplane, this switch would bet be served in my application for taxi/landing lights. Switching hands and having to look down to the right side switch/breaker panel while in close flight is difficult when the call comes for "lights on". All rear seat functions can be disabled from the front seat position with a switch on the panel. The rear stick is removable via a quick release pin and a multi-pin connector. Hope this helps someone. -Don Don Kugler RV8 - NJ don(at)earthlink.net 908-303-6578 - direct ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2005
From: Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Finished!
Great News. Now all you've got to do is the wings and the fuselage and the canopy and the engine and the panel... Just kidding! Finishing the empennage means you have the patience, skill and ability, plus the perseverance to finish the whole darn plane; in due time of course. It is a REALLY big accomplishment. You should be proud of achieving this milestone. As they say if you don't start, you'll never finish! My congratulations, Greg in Honolulu N79PT finally flying MLWynn(at)aol.com wrote: Well folks, After nine months, 294 hours and a number of re-do's, I finally finished the empennage. It is not perfect, but most of it is pretty good. I certainly think it is airworthy with only a few cosmetic defects. Just a note of thanks for all on the list that have made helpful suggestions during this, the newbie stage. On to the wings! Regards, Michael Wynn RV-8, Wings San Ramon, California ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Infinity grip and Van's flap possition system
Date: Oct 24, 2005
I have the same setup and use a covered "Start Enable" toggle switch. The toggle is flipped up for start and then disengaged/covered after the engine is running. Bumping the start button after this point has no effect. Vince RV-8A >From: sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Infinity grip and Van's flap possition system >Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:57:48 -0700 > > >Charles: > Having the starter button on the stick sounds like a great >convenience, but isn't there a fairly high chance of engaging the >started by accident in flight? Your fingers are a fraction of an inch >from it all the time and the switch doesn't take much pressure to >activate. > >Charles Rowbotham wrote: > > > > > > It reduces your work load and is comfortible. > > > >Our switch lay is as follows: > > > > Top - Center - Coolie hat (Trim - Elev and Airl) > > Left - Flap ( Toggle - momtenarty > Up and Down) > > Right - Start button (relay req) > > > > >-- >Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Infinity grip and Van's flap possition system
Date: Oct 24, 2005
I have the same setup and use a covered "Start Enable" toggle switch. The toggle is flipped up for start and then disengaged/covered after the engine is running. Bumping the start button after this point has no effect. Vince RV-8A >From: sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Infinity grip and Van's flap possition system >Date: Sun, 23 Oct 2005 08:57:48 -0700 > > >Charles: > Having the starter button on the stick sounds like a great >convenience, but isn't there a fairly high chance of engaging the >started by accident in flight? Your fingers are a fraction of an inch >from it all the time and the switch doesn't take much pressure to >activate. > >Charles Rowbotham wrote: > > > > > > It reduces your work load and is comfortible. > > > >Our switch lay is as follows: > > > > Top - Center - Coolie hat (Trim - Elev and Airl) > > Left - Flap ( Toggle - momtenarty > Up and Down) > > Right - Start button (relay req) > > > > >-- >Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2005
From: bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Subject: Re: Van's IS everything it used to be
Quoting Stephanie Marshall : > > I have to argue with the guys that are saying that Van's isn't the company > they used to be. > > They accidentally sent our empennage kit to the wrong address (our home > rather than work) and when I called to let them know they might want to look > at their process they couldn't apologize enough. > > The manager of the shipping department later called herself to apologies, > they re-funded part of the shipping, gave us an RV-8 shirt and a free > rv-ator. > > I have NOTHING BUT GOOD to say about Vans. > > www.rv-8a.4t.com > > Stephanie Marshall Good for you, my experience has been the opposite. I must say first there is no question, they have the best product, for the money.... If only all people would be, more towards quality service, would be great. There are some people, and I say "some people" have been the worst for me.. one example, I just receive a letter, asking for payment of a bill, which was paid long ago..the item was return, now they do not where it is... with Van's the client is always wrong, they are right wer are wrong.... Long ago I decided, not to buy anything from them if I can help it.. my wife definitely, is not a fan of Van's.. You will love your plane, I am enjoying mine now... Bert > Software Support Tech. > City of Enid > smarshall(at)enid.org > 580-234-0400 X-3030 > www.enid.org <http://www.enid.org/> > > This electronic mail message is intended exclusively for the individual or > entity to which it is addressed. This message, together with any attachment, > may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, > use, print, retain, copy, disclosure or distribution is strictly prohibited. > If you have received this message in error, please immediately advise the > sender and delete all copies of this message. Thank you > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Subject: Protecting flaps
I have the tape Van's sells for protecting flaps from scratches as they roll up under the wing skin. However, I don't really like how it looks when the flaps are down and the tape is showing on the flaps. Can you give me some other tried and tested ideas which work well? Someone suggested felt glued under the overhanging wing skin. Someone suggested putting Van's tape under the overhanging wing skins rather than on the flaps. What works and what doesn't? Or should I just live with the tape on the flaps? Pete in Clearwater RV-6, flying and prepping for paint ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Subject: Re: Protecting flaps
In a message dated 10/24/2005 4:44:24 PM Central Standard Time, PeterHunt1(at)aol.com writes: What works and what doesn't? Or should I just live with the tape on the flaps? >> Tape on the flaps works fine- some here on the list, as you have mentioned, have it on the wing skin, but my concern would be that all the wear to the tape is at the skin trailing edge exclusively instead of spread across the surface of the flap, and could wear through until the flap was scarred, the threat of which had me stick mine on the flaps- (those who have done so will chime in, please). If the looks really bug ya, just raise the unsightly things after you deplane or retape at each annual... Mark Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Protecting flaps
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Pete: Use the fuzzy portion of velcro and use its own sticky back to adhere it to the underside of the top wingskin overhang. Works real slick. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P Prop is here!!! almost set for engine start Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: <PeterHunt1(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: Protecting flaps > > I have the tape Van's sells for protecting flaps from scratches as they > roll > up under the wing skin. However, I don't really like how it looks when > the > flaps are down and the tape is showing on the flaps. Can you give me some > other > tried and tested ideas which work well? Someone suggested felt glued > under > the overhanging wing skin. Someone suggested putting Van's tape under the > overhanging wing skins rather than on the flaps. What works and what > doesn't? Or > should I just live with the tape on the flaps? > > Pete in Clearwater > RV-6, flying and prepping for paint > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Martin Hone" <mctrader(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re:High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum)
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Hi Bob, I use a vinyl-ester called Derakane, which is available in a hi-temp version. It is used to make the carbon fibre mufflers for after-market motorcycle exhaust systems. I think it is Derakane 470 but check with your local supplier. FWIW - We use regular Derakane here for Glassair III's. Cheers Martin in Oz RV-6 : 170 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Martin Hone" <mctrader(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: Protecting flaps
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Hi Pete, I used the Van's supplied teflon tape on the underside of the top skin, and have no scratches or unsightly tape line showing when the flaps are deployed. After 170 hrs it looks like new. Cheers Martin in Oz ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Protecting flaps
You may want to consider the little nylon buttons that Cessna uses to keep the flaps from rubbing the wing. They are low profile and translucent white in color. You have to drill holes for them to snap into. Check out your neighbors Cessna at the airport. Ask him to drop the flaps. They are probably the cheapest part Cessna sells, about 5 cents each. Dave Nellis 7A N410DN (Res.) --- PeterHunt1(at)aol.com wrote: > > I have the tape Van's sells for protecting flaps > from scratches as they roll > up under the wing skin. However, I don't really > like how it looks when the > flaps are down and the tape is showing on the flaps. > Can you give me some other > tried and tested ideas which work well? Someone > suggested felt glued under > the overhanging wing skin. Someone suggested > putting Van's tape under the > overhanging wing skins rather than on the flaps. > What works and what doesn't? Or > should I just live with the tape on the flaps? > > Pete in Clearwater > RV-6, flying and prepping for paint > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 24, 2005
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re:
lucky wrote: > > http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html > > Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or any quick > oil drain valves. The price on this one seems too good to be true > but I'm not sure price is a good indicator here. A similarly-priced quick drain (don't know if it is the same drain as this one or not) has worked perfectly on my O-320 for the past 550 hrs. Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Krueger <pndkrueg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Protecting flaps
Date: Oct 24, 2005
> >> >> I have the tape Van's sells for protecting flaps >> from scratches as they roll >> up under the wing skin. However, I don't really >> like how it looks when the >> flaps are down and the tape is showing on the fla You may want to consider using the original stainless steel tape on the flaps that Van used to use. You can get it from J C Whitney. The UHMW tape does not hold up near as well as the SS tape - a RV down the row from me has the UHMW tape on the flaps and it is worn out - granted after several hundred hours. One draw back that a couple of us have noted is the SS does not stick very well at the corners - a simple pressing with your thumb during preflight solves this "problem". Dan Krueger RV6A - Flying - with the classic stainless steel tape flap protection ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Starter not disengaging
Date: Oct 25, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure appreciate any insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and what the fix is. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure appreciate any insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and what the fix is. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Oil cooler types.
My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This appears to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the welded aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for PA-28-180 and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW or POS? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Finishing baffles ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Oil cooler baffle mounting.
Baffle work is almost done but: Oil cooler mounting on the back of the left rear baffle remains. I have lain out the location and figured how much area of the baffle I can cut out (above the fins on the left rear cylinder). If I'm conservative I get about 2/3 of the cooler area above the cylinder fins (measured from the top of the fins to top of the cooler hole in the baffle). If I move the cooler up until it's about 3/8 inch below the top of the cowl I can get about 80% of the area above the top of the cylinder fins. I know the drawing recommends placing the cooler as high as possible but I DON'T want the cooler to hit the cowl when the engine shakes. Any recommendations here? And...has everyone just cut the hole in the baffle from the top of the oil cooler to the top of the cylinder fins or are you cutting the hole full oil cooler size? This puts the baffle hole below the top of the rear cylinder cooling fins, won't that dump too much air out and cause hot spots on that cylinder? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Thought I was finished with aluminum fabrication... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
Having read the Checkoway oil cooler saga, his recommendations and looking at his pictures...I see he has NOT used the flimsy mounting template that Van's provides. He also mentions that several people he's talked to have had problems with the Van's set up. So (I hope the folks he's referring to are on this list) should I beef up the cooler mounting using the heavy channels that Dan used (where'd you get those channels Dan)? Or something else? I have an RV-6A and there doesn't seem to be a lot of clearance behind the cooler (oil cooler flange to engine mount clearance) to add much width between the back baffle and the cooler mounting flange. Suggestions? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Dodged the hurricane bullet again... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "923te" <923te(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Engines-List: Starter not disengaging
Date: Oct 24, 2005
Here is a fix and an explanation from a Skytek person: Lots of folks with experimental aircraft use the solenoid on our starter as the only starter relay, running the push-button to the S terminal of our solenoid and removing the jumper we supply. This eliminates the 'after run'. The Sky-Tec permanent magnet starters like your 149-24LS act as generators while they spin down after you release the start switch. During this time, the flywheel spins the one-way clutch behind the pinion gear. The clutch prevents the engine from spinning the starter armature while it coasts to a stop. While the armature is still spinning and coasting down, the power it generated causes the engagement solenioid to hold in. When the armature spins down to a slow enough point, the solenoid releases and the pinion disengages from the ring. The hold-in time depends on the starter RPM and the friction in the starter, which probably becomes less as the starter gets used. This time ranges from unobservable to about 8 seconds, in our experience. This is normal operation and is not a problem. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Front baffles.
Got the baffles trimmed on top: Except the front bulkhead behind the spinner and the side baffles up front at the inlet ramp area of the top cowl (already glassed the ramps in before starting baffles, may have been a mistake). For those who have NOT spent an extra man month building a plenum box over the engine.....how did you trim the baffle sides at the top cowl inlet ramp area?? Did you just follow the contour of the inlet ramp (trimming the aluminum to provide a 3/8 gap like the inlet floors) and have the airseal flap sit against the ramp? Or am I missing something? Also, how wide of a strip of airseal rubber did you use? How much over lap on the baffle? On the cowl? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Lots of baffle questions tonight... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Subject: Re: (no subject)
In a message dated 10/24/2005 9:54:08 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes: Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or any quick oil drain valves. ============================= Get the Fumoto. See the Yeller Pages for which P/N and contact info. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Dean, If I were doing it over again, I would mount the oil cooler on the ENGINE MOUNT right behind/slightly below #4, with the exit facing as downward as possible. I would fabricate a fiberglass duct off the baffles, to a short length of 4" SCAT, to a reverse duct (diffuser?) on the front/top of the oil cooler. By doing this you remove the weight of the oil cooler from the baffles, which I personally believe reduces the stress on the baffles immensely. I'm speaking from theory, not experience, so take this with a grain of salt. I also read your previous email about oil cooler types, and I usually recommend the Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler for any Lycoming variant up to 180hp. It works on a 200hp angle valve engine, but it's on the verge of being slightly too small. Cools absolutely great when LOP, cools tolerably when ROP, doesn't cool so great at slow airspeeds. On a 180hp parallel valve engine, the 8406R should be plenty, assuming you've got a reasonably tight baffle setup or a plenum. Just my 2 cents. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (651 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: RV-List: Oil cooler baffle beef-up > > > Having read the Checkoway oil cooler saga, his recommendations and looking > at his pictures...I see he has NOT used the flimsy mounting template that > Van's provides. He also mentions that several people he's talked to have had > problems with the Van's set up. So (I hope the folks he's referring to are > on this list) should I beef up the cooler mounting using the heavy channels > that Dan used (where'd you get those channels Dan)? Or something else? I > have an RV-6A and there doesn't seem to be a lot of clearance behind the > cooler (oil cooler flange to engine mount clearance) to add much width > between the back baffle and the cooler mounting flange. Suggestions? > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Dodged the hurricane bullet again... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: oil drain valve
Date: Oct 25, 2005
> >http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html > >Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or any quick oil >drain valves. The price on this one seems too good to be true but I'm not >sure price is a good indicator here. > >thx, >lucky > They should be fine. Rather odd how the advert describes it as made of aluminum and stainless in the long description then says it's made of brass as you read down to the bulleted specifications. It's probably solid brass and steel as mine was. Mine did start leaking so I replaced it with a Fumoto valve that is excellent. http://fumotovalve.com/ Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Beaded end on aluminum tube
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Here's another solution: Put a compression fitting on the end of the tube. After you torque down the fitting, the little brass ring is swaged onto the tube and is going nowhere. Just remove the compression nut from the other end and leave the brass ring in place. It does the same job as a beaded end. Ron Schreck Gold Hill Airpark, NC Dwight Frye Wrote: I had a friend with an RV-4 who had a similar problem. He noticed that some safety-wire holding some baffles had started to saw a nice little slot in an oil return line. We fabricated another one (with slightly different routing) and then wanted to put a bead on the end of the tube. There seem to be two choices (three if you decide, as another list member suggested, to simply not worry about it). One is getting one of the really nice Parker-style beading tool sets. They apparently do a beautiful job but are NOT economical for one or two uses. Or, you can do what we did and get an Earls EZ-Beader. See http://www.amstreetrod.com/011ERL.php4 for details. One for the tubing we needed was less than $20 and gave him some extra peace of mind knowing that the bead was on there. The tool is about as simple as it gets ... and does a fairly good job. The bead is a bit "thinner" than what was on the original, but does fulfill the task of making it extremely unlikely that the tubing would slip out of the little rubber hose. Honestly, I don't see how it could slip out anyway given the geometry of the whole setup .... but since there was a bead there originally, we felt best adding one to the new piece of tubing if we could. So we did ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: Starter not disengaging
Date: Oct 25, 2005
My starter instructions on my TMX-O360 says I should spray some silicone on the gears every 50 hours. Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 74 hours of grinning and the lines are setting in............. ----- Original Message ----- From: <HCRV6(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Starter not disengaging > > Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours > the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A > has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure > appreciate any insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and > what the fix is. > > -- > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum)
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Don't get too worked up over the temperature issues with epoxy. I have a friend that makes parts for several of the NASCAR teams and he uses West Systems and EZ Poxy. These are standard over the counter products. If they don't have temp issues I don't think we will. Also a plenum has a constant source of air movement. The key is to make sure the epoxy is mixed properly. Good luck. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: sportav8r(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Starter not disengaging
A search of the AeroElectric-list archives, under "PM Starter & Run-on" might be most enlightening. Prolonged gear engagement due to auto-generation of voltage in the starter is a well-known phenomenon, with a straightforward fix that involves rewiring your starter relay circuit. It's all in the 'Connection book as well. Strangely, even though I have a Sky-Tec and a panel indicator light to tell me if the relay stays engaged, it's never been an issue on my particular ship, even with conventional wiring scheme. Obviously, "mileage varies" with this problem. -Stormy ----- Original Message ----- From: <HCRV6(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Starter not disengaging > > Hey guys, I should have guessed things were going too well. At 146 hours > the Sky Tec starter pinion gear on my factory new (from Van's) O-360 A1A > has started to hang up for a second or two on each engine start. I'd sure > appreciate any insight anyone can provide as to what is causing this and > what the fix is. > > -- > Harry Crosby > RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lancenewman" <lancenewman(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Dan, This may seem a bit un-orthodox, but works great for my installation. Both Oil cooler and cabin heat box mounted on right side of firewall. Oil cooler above cabin air box. During the warm 6 months of the year, my exhaust heat muff is removed for lack of use. A 3 inch scat tube feeds cool air to my oil cooler giving me temps in the 190-194F range most of the time with slide on the bottom of the oil cooler closed off 3/4. In the winter, heat muff is hooked back up. Warm bypass air from the heat box flows up past the oil cooler keeping my oil temps again in the 185-190F range most of the winter months. Oil cooler slide is wide open. Seems to work real well on my 0320engine. No undue stress on the baffling. Enjoy your web site by the way. Keep up the good work. Lance Newman Seattle RV6 110 hours and still having fun ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil cooler baffle beef-up > > Dean, > > If I were doing it over again, I would mount the oil cooler on the ENGINE > MOUNT right behind/slightly below #4, with the exit facing as downward as > possible. I would fabricate a fiberglass duct off the baffles, to a short > length of 4" SCAT, to a reverse duct (diffuser?) on the front/top of the > oil > cooler. > > By doing this you remove the weight of the oil cooler from the baffles, > which I personally believe reduces the stress on the baffles immensely. > I'm > speaking from theory, not experience, so take this with a grain of salt. > > I also read your previous email about oil cooler types, and I usually > recommend the Stewart Warner 8406R oil cooler for any Lycoming variant up > to > 180hp. It works on a 200hp angle valve engine, but it's on the verge of > being slightly too small. Cools absolutely great when LOP, cools > tolerably > when ROP, doesn't cool so great at slow airspeeds. On a 180hp parallel > valve engine, the 8406R should be plenty, assuming you've got a reasonably > tight baffle setup or a plenum. Just my 2 cents. > > )_( Dan > RV-7 N714D (651 hours) > http://www.rvproject.com > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Oil cooler baffle beef-up > > > >> >> >> Having read the Checkoway oil cooler saga, his recommendations and >> looking >> at his pictures...I see he has NOT used the flimsy mounting template that >> Van's provides. He also mentions that several people he's talked to have > had >> problems with the Van's set up. So (I hope the folks he's referring to > are >> on this list) should I beef up the cooler mounting using the heavy > channels >> that Dan used (where'd you get those channels Dan)? Or something else? >> I >> have an RV-6A and there doesn't seem to be a lot of clearance behind the >> cooler (oil cooler flange to engine mount clearance) to add much width >> between the back baffle and the cooler mounting flange. Suggestions? >> >> Dean Psiropoulos >> RV-6A N197DM >> Dodged the hurricane bullet again... >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LClark6372(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 10/24/05
looking for a rv8 (tailwheel) project nearing completion lclark6372(at)aol.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Front baffles.
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Dean: I did just as you described, trimmed the baffles to follow the inlet ramp contour and started with a baffle seal overlap of about 1 inch on the baffles and 1 to 11/4 in. on the cowl. I used several sections of seal material in the ramp area because of the rather sharp curves. I soon found that there was too much overlap in the ramp area and started trimming the seals a little at a time to just eliminate the excess that was curling over. My non-plenum arrangement cools very well. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours -------------- Original message -------------- > Did you just follow the contour of the inlet ramp (trimming the aluminum to provide a 3/8 gap like the inlet floors) and have the airseal flap sit against the ramp? Also, how wide of a strip of airseal rubber did you use? > How much over lap on the baffle? On the cowl? Thanks. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Lots of baffle questions tonight... > > > > > > Dean: I did just as you described, trimmed the baffles to follow the inlet ramp contour and started with a baffle seal overlap of about 1 inch on the baffles and 1 to 11/4 in.on the cowl. I used several sections of seal material in the ramp area because of the rather sharp curves.I soon found thatthere was too much overlap in the ramp areaand started trimming the seals a little at a time to just eliminate the excess that was curling over. My non-plenum arrangement cools very well. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" Did you just follow thecontour of the inlet ramp (trimming the aluminum to provide a 3/8 gap like the inlet floors) and have the airseal flap sit against the ramp? Also, how wide of a strip of airseal rubber did you use? How much over lap on the baffle? On the cowl? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Lots of baffle questions tonight... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: jim & terri truitt <jimteri1(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Infinity Stick Grip
I thought I submitted a post on this before. If you are worried about hitting the starter button when you have the starter on the stick - try what I did. Remove the red trigger button (it comes off) and wire your starter to that switch. The switch itself is recessed in the stick. The red trigger is just a cover over the switch. You have to push your finger into the grip to push the switch. Neither your finger or the fleshy part of your hand can engage the switch without a deliberate action. 228 hours and no problem. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Oil cooler types.
Date: Oct 25, 2005
I use the Aero Classic 7 row cooler mounted on the rear baffle behind cylinder #4 and it works better than OK. I have to install a full cover plate on the back of the cooler when the ambient gets to 85 degrees or below in order to keep my oil temp up in the 180 degrees range. I mounted mine as high as possible after reinforcing the heck out of that area, as long as the cooler is not sticking above the baffle at any point there is no way for the cowl to hit it. The wimpy reinforcing suggested by Van's is barely a good starting point in my opinion. I also made the cutout in the baffle the full size of the cooler with no apparent effect on cooling since that cylinder is the coolest running. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours -------------- Original message -------------- > > My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This appears > to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the welded > aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for PA-28-180 > and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and > fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it > before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone > have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW or > POS? > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Finishing baffles > > > > > > I use the Aero Classic 7 row cooler mounted on the rear baffle behind cylinder #4 and it works better than OK. I have to install a full cover plate on the back of the cooler when the ambient gets to 85 degrees or below in order to keep my oil temp up in the180 degrees range.I mounted mine as high as possible after reinforcing the heck outof that area, as long as the cooler is not sticking above the baffle at any point there is no way for the cowl to hit it. The wimpy reinforcing suggested by Van's is barely a good starting point in my opinion. I also made the cutout in the baffle the full size of the cooler with no apparent effect on cooling since that cylinder is the coolest running. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 146 hours -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This appears to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the welded aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for PA-28-180 and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW or POS? Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Finishing baffles ================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Subject: Re: Oil cooler types.
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Mine's been working great so far. 130 Hrs of 180-185 degrees on my O-360 with vernatherm. - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com DEAN PSIROPOULOS said: > > > My Van's FWF kit came with an Aero Classics 7 row oil cooler. This > appears > to be made of stamped sheet metal (with brass ends) as opposed to the > welded > aluminum of the Stewart Warner and Positec coolers. It is PMA for > PA-28-180 > and several other production aircraft so it will work with my engine and > fits behind the rear baffle with no problems. But...never heard of it > before on this list so....is it the standard Van's FWF kit item? Anyone > have experience with it? Ok to use? Or should I send it back and get SW > or > POS? > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Finishing baffles > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: Infinity Stick Grip
I used the green button as the starter button and just machined a counter sunk ring to go over it. Have to stick your thumb in to the ring to activate the starter and it works great. > >I thought I submitted a post on this before. If you are worried about >hitting the starter button when you have the starter on the stick - try >what I did. Remove the red trigger button (it comes off) and wire your >starter to that switch. The switch itself is recessed in the stick. The >red trigger is just a cover over the switch. You have to push your finger >into the grip to push the switch. Neither your finger or the fleshy part >of your hand can engage the switch without a deliberate action. 228 hours >and no problem. > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 25, 2005
I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking fundamentals. Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have a safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric? _ /Bjorn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 25, 2005
It is one way or the other. The electric trim is not sensitive enough and it is hard to get it just right IMO. YMMV. Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker ----- Original Message ----- From: <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV-List: electric vs manual > > I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking > fundamentals. > > Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have > a > safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric? > _ > /Bjorn. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 25, 2005
> It is one way or the other. The electric trim is not sensitive enough and > it is hard to get it just right IMO. YMMV. I must be the only one out there who is happy with my electric trim. I'm starting to think it's due to the way I wired it. I'm not using the standard Ray Allen rockers or indicators. I have a coolie hat on my stick, wired to two relays, one for up, one for down. I believe the "delay" inherent in using a relay allows me to make much smaller adjustments with just a flick of the coolie hat. Tap...tap...tap, and I'm there. Anyway, I'm tired of hearing people say that the "electric trim is too fast" or this and that. Qualify that with the details of the system you're using, so we can compare apples to apples. Also, it would be interesting to see how much of this comes down to coordination & quickness of your fingers -- i.e. "operator error." I don't see what the fuss is all about with electric trim. Works for me! In a plane which gains altitude if I bend my knee and descends if I straighten my leg (that's how I hold altitude when cruising, literally) -- of course you're going to have some built-in sensitivity. An awareness of this condition, combined with a system that is conducive to making small adjustments, combined with a deft finger is going to yield success imho. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (651 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
In a message dated 10/25/2005 4:33:54 PM Central Standard Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes: I must be the only one out there who is happy with my electric trim. I'm starting to think it's due to the way I wired it. I'm not using the standard Ray Allen rockers or indicators. I have a coolie hat on my stick, wired to two relays, one for up, one for down. I believe the "delay" inherent in using a relay allows me to make much smaller adjustments with just a flick of the coolie hat. Tap...tap...tap, and I'm there. >>> My experience exactly (except I do have the indicator), so that makes two of us... Mark Phillips RV-6A, 240ish hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 25, 2005
I'm happy as a clam with the electric trim in my RV-9A. I have the older style Ray Allen stick grip (4 separate buttons for trim) and I wired a micro switch to my flap positioning arm. With flaps even slightly down I get full voltage but with them up the voltage is reduced and so is trim speed. I'm thinking about adding another voltage adjusting module because the aileron seem much less sensitive than the elevators. Albert Gardner RV-9A N872RV 605 hrs. Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com wrote: > >I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking >fundamentals. > >Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have a >safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric? > _ >/Bjorn. > > I am real happy with my electric trim. I am using a common old on-off-on momentary bat handle toggle switch. No special circuits or anything special.... Phil in Illinois............. Painting parts and pieces..... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Tools
Date: Oct 25, 2005
A builders dream collection. Highest quality MAC tools and box. Every tool imaginable in a tool box 7' tall by 10' long, approx 2 ton. Shipping available. Everything you could ever need for working on anything automotive or aircraft related. Appraised at over $70,000 replacement value yours for only $15,000. A friend retired after 40 years as a professional mechanic and I am selling them. Contact me off list at john(at)fureychrysler.com for details. John Furey 2nd RV6A F1 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Hi Dan, I have put in the pitch trim circuit the "speed controller module". Preset the speed for about half speed. I did this in my Europa which has an all flying tail. It is very sensitive in pitch. So when I did that, all smoothed out and I could trim it out to the nat's n... I'm doing the same on my RV9-A. BTW, the RV12 seems to be a metal copy of the Europa tri gear. I hope it is as efficient. I loved it but it was a it small inside. Jim Nelson N599RV (reserved) Still wiring- my web site http://websites.expercraft.com/jimn/ a great web site for a beginner in that mode ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: High Temperature Epoxy (was attaching plenum)
Karen and Robert Brown wrote: > >Do you have more information on high temperature epoxy? I've researched this for quite a while and I'm stumped. TAP Plastics up here in OR is the epoxy place around here and they only say that a marine vinyl ester resin has slighty more heat resistance than epoxy resin. According to the spec sheet, using ASTM D-648, Vinyl Ester Resin has a Heat Distortion temp rating of 240F. The spec sheet notes that this is a "clear casting" rating. TAP was "not aware" of high temperature epoxy. This may make sense, especially IF THEY DON'T SELL IT. From an empirical standpoint, all the glass plenums people have made here (about 6, including some with several hundred hours) are using epoxy resin, (both those using carbon fiber and regular glass). I don't observe any softening or other degradation on these plenums, so....unless other specific info shows up on this topic, I'm pretty sure I'll go ahead and use (West Systems) epoxy resin to do the carbon fiber plenum...which should be! > soon. > >Bob Brown >RV7A - cowl fitted! > Find someone who has a set of Rutan VariEze plans. VE's had FG baffles bolted to the heads before high temp resins existed. (It amazed me too, the 1st time I saw them.) Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
I debated about electric trim. I had heard the Allen servo was too fast. Now they have a speed reducer to make it more sensitive, less overdrive. Dave --- Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 10/25/2005 4:33:54 PM Central > Standard Time, > dan(at)rvproject.com writes: > I must be the only one out there who is happy with > my electric trim. I'm > starting to think it's due to the way I wired it. > I'm not using the > standard Ray Allen rockers or indicators. I have a > coolie hat on my stick, > wired to two relays, one for up, one for down. I > believe the "delay" > inherent in using a relay allows me to make much > smaller adjustments with > just a flick of the coolie hat. Tap...tap...tap, > and I'm there. > >>> > My experience exactly (except I do have the > indicator), so that makes two of > us... > > Mark Phillips RV-6A, 240ish hours > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 25, 2005
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
In a message dated 10/25/2005 3:33:54 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, dan(at)rvproject.com writes: Anyway, I'm tired of hearing people say that the "electric trim is too fast" or this and that. Qualify that with the details of the system you're using, so we can compare apples to apples. ============================= I agree. My electric trim on elevator and aileron works perfectly with the Matronics governors set at half speed. I wouldn't change a thing. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 25, 2005
From: sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oil cooler baffle beef-up
There are 4 or 5 builders here in Tucson who have had successful oil cooler installations on the baffle behind cyl. #3 as Van's baffle kit shows. They added an additional brace and beefed up the bracket which the oil cooler mounts to and I am told by one of them that they have had no problems. I carefully examined one of these installations as I am working on my baffles now and carefully duplicating it. The extra brace is a piece of 6061 3/4"x 3/4" angle about a foot long that goes from a tapped hole on the left side of the engine which is at the top of the case between cyls 1 and 3, to the inboard flange of baffle part #5. That's the one that the oil cooler is mounted to. Baffle 5 is not well constrained against motion in the forward-aft direction and this brace fixes that. Part of the angle has to be cut away to get around the push rod tube of cyl #3. I have a photo of the brace, if any one is interested. They also beefed up the bracket that the oil cooler mounts to. Van's drawing shows a little "picture frame" sort of thing. The Tucson version is nearly as large as the entire baffle #5 itself. It has a flanges on all 4 sides to stiffen it. The outboard, top and bottom flanges are made by bending the edge of the plate 90 deg. so that it extends aft. The flange on the inboard side extends forward and wraps around the flange of baffle 5 where it overlays the flange of baffle 6. It's about an inch long. All these planes use the SW 8406R cooler. It's expensive, but I think it's worth it. It gets hot in Tucson. -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A, engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 26, 2005
> I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking > fundamentals. > > Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have a > safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric? As someone said, they're mutually exclusive. For the flaps, both versions use the same attach point on the flap horn. For the trim, the cable goes all the way back to the horn on the manual version. On the electric version, the servo can sit in the elevator just in front of the horn or have a short section of cable attached to the horn that connects to the servo in the fuselage where the stabilizers are attached to the fuse. Then, the discusson got into the speeds of the electrics. Not much was said about the manual. I have a manual trim in my -6A that I've used for six years. I like it. I'm going to be installing the electric trim in my -7A only because it came with a deal I got on a tail kit from a good friend. I'm not sure I'll like it unless I put in the speed reducer. With a manual elevator trim, I can still set the trim if the battery power gets turned off. :-) As for the flaps, I really do like my electric flaps and bought the conversion when it was an option. I've read from those who like their manual flaps. The manual flap does have its advantages; but, it also takes up space between the seats that can be used for other things. If memory serves me, you get the electric flaps in the kits, now. Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Morrow" <DanFM01(at)butter.toast.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Piper Archers that have the optional electric trim installed have both manual and electric trim controls. So it is possible, but you might have to engineer your own system. ----- Original Message ----- From: <owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com> Subject: RV-List: electric vs manual > > I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking > fundamentals. > > Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you have > a > safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric? > _ > /Bjorn. > > > -- > 10/12/2005 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Subject: RV-10 lateral trim
From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Greetings all: I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about 21 hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's ailerons are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does anyone have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE material method as a temporary fix. Thanks Doug Weiler Pres, MN Wing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-10 lateral trim
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Doug As I remember(realize i am old) Dan Checkoway had a similar problem. Give his web site a look see. Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV List >Subject: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim >Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:32:12 -0500 > > >Greetings all: > >I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about 21 >hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's >ailerons >are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze >the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to >correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right >aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does anyone >have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE >material method as a temporary fix. > >Thanks > >Doug Weiler >Pres, MN Wing > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Brooks" <kenbrooks(at)charter.net>
Subject: Start Button on Infinity Stick Grip
Date: Oct 26, 2005
We wired a switch on the panel to disable the stick starter button. The start button itself is at the top, far right of the right-hand grip so you have to reach up and cross over with your thumb to start. Not likely to hit it accidentally after engine start, but we added the stick-start disable item to our checklist after engine start. It makes wiring a bit more involved, but is a positive way to eliminate the possibility of accidental starter engagement after initial start. Photos upon request. Ken Brooks Roscoe, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-10 lateral trim
Date: Oct 26, 2005
>Greetings all: > >I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about 21 >hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's >ailerons >are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze >the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to >correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right >aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does anyone >have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE >material method as a temporary fix. > >Thanks > >Doug Weiler >Pres, MN Wing Move over and fly from the right seat? Sorry, couldn't resist. I'm also new to the riveted trailing edge phenomena and have wondered how to trim the ailerons in the future on my -10. I think you can tweak the trailing edge up or down with very judicious use of a hand seamer. Perhaps it would only require a tiny amount of bias up or down to change the way the aileron rides in neutral position. Otherwise, the balsa TE stock technique is tried and true. Also, I tried monkeying around with flap postion on my -8 to trim out some roll with zero results. They seem to be too close in to the roll axis down the fuselage centerline to be of much help. Now, the RV10 flaps go darn near full span so you might gain something there. Van's might have something to say about this, so I'd ask them too. Brian Denk RV8 N94BD RV10 '51 moving into airpark home this week. Where did I pack the rivet gun..... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 lateral trim
Date: Oct 26, 2005
I'm not familiar with the RV-10's aileron hinge construction, but generally speaking if you raise or lower the aileron relative to the rear spar of the wing, it has a profound impact. Make very small corrections. On the -3/-4/-6/-7/-8, you can "slot" the holes on the aileron attach brackets in order to shift the aileron vertically relative to the wing. Here are some photos: http://www.rvproject.com/20050508.html I believe this is also possible on the -9/-10, but I'm not positive. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim > > Doug > > As I remember(realize i am old) Dan Checkoway had a similar problem. Give > his web site a look see. > > Frank @ SGU and SLC > > > >From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: RV List > >Subject: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim > >Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:32:12 -0500 > > > > > >Greetings all: > > > >I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about 21 > >hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's > >ailerons > >are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze > >the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to > >correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right > >aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does anyone > >have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE > >material method as a temporary fix. > > > >Thanks > > > >Doug Weiler > >Pres, MN Wing > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Thermocouple wiring firewall pentrations
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Fellow trons..... I'm getting started on my firewall forward wiring for my VM1000. I have four EGT and CHT wiring sets that need to pass through the firewall on their journey to the DPU. I would like to be able to disconnect them at the firewall with a canon-plug type connector for ease of maintenance and firewall integrity reasons. A note to Vision Microsystems got me the response that it can be done but I need to use special thermocouple extension grade pins due to an additional thermocouple junction at the firewall. Please provide me with some education on this - my common sense tells me that it is an electrical signal once it leaves the thermocouple and that electricity is not affected by a firewall - unless maybe it is on fire.......there is a connector at the DPU - wouldn't that connector cause the same problem? I do take stock in their response - but need to understand the mechanics/physics etc. Maybe it is not worth the trouble to wire a disconnect at this point and I should run the wiring direct from the thermocouple to the DPU. Ralph Capen RV6AQB N822AR N06 90% 90% ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: RV-10 lateral trim
I think you will find that the light wing has a larger gap between the aileron and upper wing skin, as compared to the other wing. Some people slot the holes and adjust the aileron so they are even. I know a guy who did this and he only needed to move it about .032 and then it was on the money. Me personally, I would fill the slotted area with JB weld and then tighten the bolt. > >Greetings all: > >I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about 21 >hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's ailerons >are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze >the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to >correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right >aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does anyone >have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE >material method as a temporary fix. > >Thanks > >Doug Weiler >Pres, MN Wing > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: RV-10 lateral trim
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Why don't you just install electric roll trim? Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim I'm not familiar with the RV-10's aileron hinge construction, but generally speaking if you raise or lower the aileron relative to the rear spar of the wing, it has a profound impact. Make very small corrections. On the -3/-4/-6/-7/-8, you can "slot" the holes on the aileron attach brackets in order to shift the aileron vertically relative to the wing. Here are some photos: http://www.rvproject.com/20050508.html I believe this is also possible on the -9/-10, but I'm not positive. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim > > Doug > > As I remember(realize i am old) Dan Checkoway had a similar problem. Give > his web site a look see. > > Frank @ SGU and SLC > > > >From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> > >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >To: RV List > >Subject: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim > >Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2005 13:32:12 -0500 > > > > > >Greetings all: > > > >I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about 21 > >hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's > >ailerons > >are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze > >the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to > >correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right > >aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does anyone > >have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE > >material method as a temporary fix. > > > >Thanks > > > >Doug Weiler > >Pres, MN Wing > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Luis <luis.orozco(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Thermocouple wiring firewall pentrations INNOCENT GLOBAL
0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Hi Ralph, I've been lurking for a while, and I figured this is something I can contribute to. Please forgive me if some of this is obvious... A thermocouple is just two wires of different metals welded together. There is a small voltage developed at the junction of the two wires that changes with temperature. If you take the two thermocouple wires and wire them to a connector at the firewall, and then to the VM1000, you've just created two more junctions. One from the thermocouple to the connector, and another from the connector to the wire going to the VM1000. These junctions will also generate voltages which will vary with temperature, introducing an error in your measurement. What they meant by 'thermocouple grade connectors' is that the contacts on the connector are made of the same metal as the thermocouple wire. This way there are no additional thermocouple junctions formed at the firewall connector. Now, you have a valid point about how the wires eventually go to a connector on the VM1000, and that should affect the measurement as well. I am not familiar with the inner workings of the VM1000 (Though I have flown it once), but I would expect it to have an internal thermistor near where the thermocouple wires connect to the unit. This thermistor is used to measure the temperature at the 'cold junction' formed at the input connector, and compensate for the error. For everything you ever wanted to know about thermocouples, you can go to www.omega.com <http://www.omega.com> . You can even order a free set of BIG handbooks with great information. I hope this helps! Luis Orozco Austin, TX -- Tooling up for an RV7A! On 10/26/05, Ralph E. Capen wrote: > > > Fellow trons..... > > I'm getting started on my firewall forward wiring for my VM1000. I have > four EGT and CHT wiring sets that need to pass through the firewall on their > journey to the DPU. > > I would like to be able to disconnect them at the firewall with a > canon-plug type connector for ease of maintenance and firewall integrity > reasons. > > A note to Vision Microsystems got me the response that it can be done but > I need to use special thermocouple extension grade pins due to an additional > thermocouple junction at the firewall. > > Please provide me with some education on this - my common sense tells me > that it is an electrical signal once it leaves the thermocouple and that > electricity is not affected by a firewall - unless maybe it is on > fire.......there is a connector at the DPU - wouldn't that connector cause > the same problem? > > I do take stock in their response - but need to understand the > mechanics/physics etc. > > Maybe it is not worth the trouble to wire a disconnect at this point and I > should run the wiring direct from the thermocouple to the DPU. > > Ralph Capen > RV6AQB N822AR N06 90% 90% > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Tim Olson <Tim(at)MyRV10.com>
Subject: Re: RE: oil drain valve
You triggered my memory that I needed to order my quick drain. My quick check online found that Aircraft Spruce has the Curtis Quick Drain Valve CCA-1700 ($11.65) and Quick Drain Hose CCB-39600-1. ($10.80). The only difference I can see is the above valve has a quick hose fitting instead of a stem. Any drawback to this valve over the one you listed? Tim Olson -- RV-10 #40170 Brian Denk wrote: > >>http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html >> >>Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or any quick oil >>drain valves. The price on this one seems too good to be true but I'm not >>sure price is a good indicator here. >> >>thx, >>lucky >> > > > They should be fine. Rather odd how the advert describes it as made of > aluminum and stainless in the long description then says it's made of brass > as you read down to the bulleted specifications. It's probably solid brass > and steel as mine was. Mine did start leaking so I replaced it with a > Fumoto valve that is excellent. http://fumotovalve.com/ > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > RV10 '51 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 26, 2005
I wouldnt worry about loss of electrics. The forces you're dealing with in the event you lose trim and the lack of flaps wont add much of a problem. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: <sears(at)searnet.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: electric vs manual > > >> I'm as of yet only comtemplating building, so bare with me for asking >> fundamentals. >> >> Are electric/manual trim/flap-controls mutually exclusive, or can you >> have > a >> safe manual control that overrides a convenient electric? > > As someone said, they're mutually exclusive. For the flaps, both versions > use > the same attach point on the flap horn. For the trim, the cable goes all > the > way back to the horn on the manual version. On the electric version, the > servo can sit in the elevator just in front of the horn or have a short > section of > cable attached to the horn that connects to the servo in the fuselage > where > the > stabilizers are attached to the fuse. > > Then, the discusson got into the speeds of the electrics. Not much was > said > about the manual. I have a manual trim in my -6A that I've used for six > years. > I like it. I'm going to be installing the electric trim in my -7A only > because it > came with a deal I got on a tail kit from a good friend. I'm not sure > I'll > like it > unless I put in the speed reducer. With a manual elevator trim, I can > still > set > the trim if the battery power gets turned off. :-) > > As for the flaps, I really do like my electric flaps and bought the > conversion when > it was an option. I've read from those who like their manual flaps. The > manual flap > does have its advantages; but, it also takes up space between the seats > that > can be > used for other things. If memory serves me, you get the electric flaps in > the kits, > now. > > Jim Sears in KY > RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) > RV-7A #70317 > EAA Tech Counselor > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Neal George" <neal(at)appaero.com>
Subject: Andair Fuel Valves
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Gentlemen - Like many of you, I want an aircraft-quality fuel valve for my RV. I bought an Andair FS20x3 from Vans and later learned that the valve and fittings would be a very tight fit. I met with Andair's rep at Sun'N'Fun and explained our dilemma - the major suppliers don't stock the many variations; common fittings made the valves too big for the space available; and banjo fittings are expensive, hard to find and add unnecessary joints to the fuel system. The result of that conversation is the Andair FS20x7t. Details and (poor) pictures here: www.appaero.com/andair.htm The first shipment arrived last week and I have a few left. Current cost is $250 delivered. I'll be happy to order more if there is enough interest. Neal RV-7 N8ZG (firewall clecoed) RV-8 N998GM (canoe flipped) Home - 334-262-8993 Cell - 334-546-2033 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <nyman(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: inside cowl prep
Date: Oct 26, 2005
I've previously read that others have covered the inside of their engine cowl with resin and was curious if this meant epoxy resin without any hardener mixed with it. I've also heard that MEK is good for cleaning the cowl before applying the resin. Are there any other products that would be acceptable? Thanks in advance for your replies. Steve RV7 N174AS 140 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: inside cowl prep
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Instead of using a solvent, you might consider a light scrubbing with sandpaper, followed by a wipe down with a damp cloth. Do not apply epoxy resin without hardener. It'll never harden and you'll have a heck of a mess on your hands. If you're going to seal the inside of the cowl, a squeegied on coat of properly mixed epoxy might be a good way to seal most of the pinholes... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: <nyman(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV-List: inside cowl prep > > I've previously read that others have covered the inside of their engine > cowl with resin and was curious if this meant epoxy resin without any > hardener mixed with it. I've also heard that MEK is good for cleaning the > cowl before applying the resin. Are there any other products that would > be acceptable? > > Thanks in advance for your replies. > > Steve > RV7 > N174AS > 140 hrs > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: inside cowl prep
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Hi Steve, Epoxy resin with the hardener mixed in is what is being referred to. Acetone will clean used with care will prep the surface quite well. The result will be a sealed surface that should be easy to clean with your choice of soapy cleanser or solvent. Keep building, Jim in Kelowna ----- Original Message ----- From: <nyman(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV-List: inside cowl prep > > I've previously read that others have covered the inside of their engine > cowl with resin and was curious if this meant epoxy resin without any > hardener mixed with it. I've also heard that MEK is good for cleaning the > cowl before applying the resin. Are there any other products that would > be acceptable? > > Thanks in advance for your replies. > > Steve > RV7 > N174AS > 140 hrs > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: inside cowl prep
linn walters wrote: >> I've also heard that MEK is good for cleaning the cowl before >> applying the resin. >> > > MEK is a great degreaser/cleaner. It's also nasty to the body. Wear > your gloves and work in a well ventilated area. It is true that MEK is some really foul-smelling stuff that can make you loopy if you breath the fumes. However, it seems the adverse health effects of the solvent have been greatly exaggerated, probably due to the potent aroma and the way it can quickly dry exposed skin. Here is one summary of the (lack of) long-term health effects of MEK in comparison to other solvents: http://www.ccohs.ca/oshanswers/chemicals/chem_profiles/mek/health_mek.html I am not in any way advocating a casual attitude toward MEK or any other solvent. They all should be handled carefully and any effort to avoid skin contact is beneficial. But I have often seen written on this list and others that we will grow an eye in our forehead and be unable to produce offspring if we use MEK in our shop. These dire warnings don't seem to be born out by the studies conducted so far with MEK. You can still buy MEK by the gallon at Home Depot and Lowes. MEK is a solvent that has been useful in my shop and has given me a headache a couple of times when I didn't have adequate ventilation. But I keep it in the shop for those times when I need a really aggressive solvent and I don't consider it any more dangerous than many other solvents. Sam Buchanan (RV-, uh....... I can't remember what kind of plane I have......) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: "Richard E. Tasker" <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: Thermocouple wiring firewall pentrations
I have posted at least two discussions about thermocouple wire and how it works - look at the archives. That said, here is the short story. Thermocouples work due to the Seebeck effect. That is, if you connect two wires made of dissimilar metals they will generate a voltage at the junction that is proportional to the temperature at the junction (and dependent on the types of metals). It is important to remember that it is ANY junction of dissimilar metals. This includes the junctions where the thermocouples are connected to whatever you are using to measure the temperature. The designers of these instruments always provide some way (internal to the instrument) of compensating for the voltage generated at this junction so the resultant temperature readout is that at the other end of the thermocouple wires. So... If we interpose another set of junctions in a length of thermocouple wire - such as a connector - that could cause problems or maybe not. I say could for two reasons. First, if the temperature at each additional junction is the same then the voltages generated will all cancel and you will still get the same result on the readout instrument as you would without the additional junctions. This is very likely the case if you pass the thermocouple wires through a hole in the firewall (using the techniques that Bob recommends for providing a fire resistant pass through) and use a connector wholly within the engine compartment since both ends of the connector will be in close proximity and at essentially the same temperature. If you use a "barrier" connector with one side mounted on the firewall and the other in the engine compartment, the situation is a little worse since the two sides are obviously at different temperatures. On the other hand if you use some sort of heat insulation around one or both sides of the connector, since the pins are intimately connected (both electrically and thermally), they are likely to be very close in temperature and will cause a relatively small error. Second, you are trying to measure relatively high temperatures and a small temperature difference error generated by the connector may be irrelevant to your actual usage. If you are using the EGT for leaning, the actual temperature is only vaguely important - the relative peaks are what you will look for. An error of 10 or 20 degrees would be immaterial in this case. With the CHT the numbers are lower but the errors are probably still not detrimental to your usage. The reason Vision Microsystems suggest what they do is that they have no control how or where you connect things and using the special pins eliminates any problems - since they are the same material as the thermocouple wire there is effectively no junction at the connector. Bottom line: If you are careful in what you do, you can use any connector you want with minimal if any errors. If you are not careful and end up with the two sides of the connector at significantly different temperatures you will get an error that is approximately the difference between the temperatures on the two sides of the connector. Dick Tasker Ralph E. Capen wrote: >--> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" > >Fellow trons..... > >I'm getting started on my firewall forward wiring for my VM1000. I have four EGT and CHT wiring sets that need to pass through the firewall on their journey to the DPU. > >I would like to be able to disconnect them at the firewall with a canon-plug type connector for ease of maintenance and firewall integrity reasons. > >A note to Vision Microsystems got me the response that it can be done but I need to use special thermocouple extension grade pins due to an additional thermocouple junction at the firewall. > >Please provide me with some education on this - my common sense tells me that it is an electrical signal once it leaves the thermocouple and that electricity is not affected by a firewall - unless maybe it is on fire.......there is a connector at the DPU - wouldn't that connector cause the same problem? > >I do take stock in their response - but need to understand the mechanics/physics etc. > >Maybe it is not worth the trouble to wire a disconnect at this point and I should run the wiring direct from the thermocouple to the DPU. > >Ralph Capen >RV6AQB N822AR N06 90% 90% > > > > -- ---- Please Note: No trees were destroyed in the sending of this message. We do concede, however, that a significant number of electrons may have been temporarily inconvenienced. ---- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 26, 2005
Subject: http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/rv-list/0129.html
I primed inside my cowl just like the outside and painted with silver aluminum paint to reflect the heat. I also glued heavy aluminum foil inside where the exhaust stacks are near the cowl. Makes it easy to clean and no burned paint inside or outside. Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor Charleston,Arkansas Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Larry Bowen <larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Re: Start Button on Infinity Stick Grip
For many years while building, I was looking forward to wiring my stick grip so that it had the starter on it and the 'disabled' switch on the console, etc. It was going to be sooo cool...I couldn't wait! When it came time to do it, I realized how much complexity, effort and how many additional failure points I would be adding to something that could be sooo simple. I ended up using a spring loaded, red flip guard switch on the side console. Period, done. Nothing starter related on the stick. I haven't missed it either. Just something else to consider..... -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: > > I did the exact same thing, right up through my flight test doing engine > out glides where I "startled" (read heart attack) myself when I pushed > the stick start button and nothing happened. Took be a few seconds to > figure out I had to rearm the switch on the panel. > > I never used that da$#@$! panel switch again. I do not want to have to > remember to rearm it during an emergency situation. > > Mike > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ken Brooks > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Start Button on Infinity Stick Grip > > > We wired a switch on the panel to disable the stick starter button. The > start button itself is at the top, far right of the right-hand grip so > you > have to reach up and cross over with your thumb to start. Not likely to > hit > it accidentally after engine start, but we added the stick-start disable > item to our checklist after engine start. It makes wiring a bit more > involved, but is a positive way to eliminate the possibility of > accidental > starter engagement after initial start. Photos upon request. > > Ken Brooks > Roscoe, IL ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: inside cowl prep
Disposable gloves are readily available even at my local grocery store. I probably went through 300 while prepping my plane to paint and also use it when setting my gopher traps. Cheap insurance. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)speedyquick.net>
Subject: EGT probe sizes
Date: Oct 26, 2005
I'm installing a Dynon EMS 10 (the engine management system) and I'm replacing an E.I. ultimate analyzer. I pulled out the EI EGT probes and lo and behold the new probes are smaller in diameter, naturally. I've read in the archives of people drilling EGT holes in the wrong place, and doing everything from re-welding the holes to just covering them up with the hose clamp and I'm wondering how all that worked out. Also if anyone has faced my dilemma, what have you done? The new probe has a flange that completely covers the hole, and when tightened down appears to seal fine, but I'm wondering if I should just weld and re-drill them. The old probe certainly wasn't a press fit, and if it didn't leak I don't see why the new one would either. Thanks for any light you can shed on this. Ed Bundy Eagle, ID -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Re: EGT probe sizes
In a message dated 10/26/2005 9:25:42 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, ebundy(at)speedyquick.net writes: I'm installing a Dynon EMS 10 (the engine management system) and I'm replacing an E.I. ultimate analyzer. I pulled out the EI EGT probes and lo and behold the new probes are smaller in diameter, naturally. I've read in the archives of people drilling EGT holes in the wrong place, and doing everything from re-welding the holes to just covering them up with the hose clamp and I'm wondering how all that worked out. Also if anyone has faced my dilemma, what have you done? The new probe has a flange that completely covers the hole, and when tightened down appears to seal fine, but I'm wondering if I should just weld and re-drill them. The old probe certainly wasn't a press fit, and if it didn't leak I don't see why the new one would either. ================================== Is there any way you could use a stainless pop rivet body as a hole size reducer? GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 26, 2005
From: Michael McGee <jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com>
Subject: Re: EGT probe sizes
At 21:23 2005-10-26, you wrote: > >I'm installing a Dynon EMS 10 (the engine management system) and I'm >replacing an E.I. ultimate analyzer. I pulled out the EI EGT probes and lo >and behold the new probes are smaller in diameter, naturally. > >I've read in the archives of people drilling EGT holes in the wrong place, >and doing everything from re-welding the holes to just covering them up with >the hose clamp and I'm wondering how all that worked out. Also if anyone >has faced my dilemma, what have you done? > >The new probe has a flange that completely covers the hole, and when >tightened down appears to seal fine, but I'm wondering if I should just weld >and re-drill them. The old probe certainly wasn't a press fit, and if it >didn't leak I don't see why the new one would either. > >Thanks for any light you can shed on this. > >Ed Bundy >Eagle, ID If the Dynon uses type K thermocouples, just use the existing EI thermocouples and you will have the holes filled up. EI uses K thermocouples. Yes, you'll probably have to change the connectors on one of the sets of cables. Alternately you can get away with using some high temp silicone (the red stuff) around the base of the TC where it clamps against the pipe. Check for exhaust leak evidence frequently for the first few hours. Mike McGee, RV-4 N996RV, O320-E2G, Hillsboro, OR 13B in gestation mode, RD-1C, EC-2 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 27, 2005
> I wouldnt worry about loss of electrics. The forces you're dealing with in > the event you lose trim and the lack of flaps wont add much of a problem. > > Shemp/Jeff Dowling Jeff is correct; but, electric flaps and trim are some of those things that can fail if the battery fails. That may make a difference in someone's decision making process. As I said, I did opt to put in the electric flaps for the convenience and paid a good deal extra for them. I have not regretted that decision. I put in the manual elevator trim because I had it and had read about the problems of fast trims with the electrics. Nowadays, one can buy the speed reducer and take care of that problem. With that, it's a toss up for me to install either one. Both work. I'll stick with the simple manual trim on the ailerons, though. It's cheap and works. Now, if I can afford it, I'll have a wing leveler on my -7A, at least. :-) Jim Sears in KY ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: MEK, was inside cowl prep
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Hi All- IIRC, the biggest problem with MEK is that it will take whatever it is mixed with transdermal. IE, if you use it to clean the crud out of your cowling and get it on your skin, the MEK AND the crud will be absorbed through your skin and into the underlying tissue and bloodstream. Some of you may recall DMSO of about 2 decades ago. Same kind of issue- Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Doh! Elevator boo-boo
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Well, here's one for my Homer Simpson page. I accidentally dropped my rivet gun on top of my right elevator skin that was stored on the second shelf of my work bench. I saw the rivet gun starting to fall to the floor and tried to cushion the fall with leg, but instead sent it sailing through the air to land safely on the elevator. Luckily I haven't starting working on the elevators. I want to order a new right elevator (E-901-R) skin from Van's today, but my work place has a Internet block against anything to do with "vehicles" thanks to a fellow worker who spends his day looking at cars on the Internet and not doing his job. Can one of yous guys send me the replacement cost for the right elevator skin (E-904-R) from "the list"? If it too pricey, I may just use filler to repair the dents and move on. Thanks! Smitty - RV-9A (fumble fingers) http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: inside cowl prep
Just paint the inside of the cowl same as the out side it looks really clean this way and so for 300+ hours it still looks great! > >I've previously read that others have covered the inside of their engine >cowl with resin and was curious if this meant epoxy resin without any >hardener mixed with it. I've also heard that MEK is good for cleaning the >cowl before applying the resin. Are there any other products that would >be acceptable? > >Thanks in advance for your replies. > >Steve >RV7 >N174AS >140 hrs > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________ SPAM: If the email is for spam, please report to abuse(at)dnsExit.com -By mail relay service at: http://www.dnsExit.com/Direct.sv?cmd=mailRelay Accounts will be suspended immediately if found spamming.
Subject: inside cowl prep
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
The only thing that fully protects against MEK is Butyl gloves. Hard to find locally and usually need to be mail ordered. Not of the use once type. Neoprene, Nitril, latex, & vinyl do next to nothing or nothing against it. If you are looking for something to do light degrease or strip wax build up prior to any type of paint or other material application, use something like PPG DX330 or some other naphtha type compound. Regular gloves will protect from that. $0.02 Michael Sausen -10 #352 Wing bottom skins -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: inside cowl prep Disposable gloves are readily available even at my local grocery store. I probably went through 300 while prepping my plane to paint and also use it when setting my gopher traps. Cheap insurance. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Cary" <williamc(at)RV9Builder.com>
Subject: Doh! Elevator boo-boo
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Sorry to hear about your falling gun. Here is the info you requested for pricing. RIGHT ELEVATOR SKIN E-901-R $73.95 Hope this helps and the price isn't too bad but don't forget Van's handling charge and shipping. Bill SNIP:I accidentally dropped my rivet gun on top of my right elevator skin that was stored on the second shelf of my work bench. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Van's FAB Service Letter
Date: Oct 27, 2005
RV Listers.. There has been a new service letter posted dated October 2005 concerning the magnetic bypass in the FAB airbox assembly. It is on www.vansaircraft.com click on Service letters for the full explanation. Evidently the fix of an earlier service letter did not work as envisioned. Keep driving those rivets. Dick DeCramer RV6 95 hours diesel(at)rconnect.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Doh! Elevator boo-boo
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Thanks guys! I will probably just patch the dents with Evercoat Rage Gold. There are 4-5 small cosmetic dents that identify the layout of the rivet gun, just enough for someone to say "Hey look, someone must have dropped a rivet gun on that elevator!". I figure the shipping cost for an large and awkward package would really be "up there" in cost. I'm off to look at Dan Checkoways website to see how to use the Rage Gold. Have a goodun! Smitty http://SmittysRV.com > > Sorry to hear about your falling gun. Here is the info you requested for > pricing. RIGHT ELEVATOR SKIN E-901-R $73.95 > > Hope this helps and the price isn't too bad but don't forget Van's > handling > charge and shipping. > > Bill > > SNIP:I accidentally dropped my rivet gun on top of my right elevator skin > that was stored on the second shelf of my work bench. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Doh! Elevator boo-boo
Date: Oct 27, 2005
> I'm off to look at Dan Checkoways website to see how to use the Rage Gold. Dab a drop of the blue cream hardener in the yellow filler, mix it up well with a squeegee, and apply. There's some proper ratio of cream hardener to filler, probably in the instructions (not looking at it at the moment), but the stuff is extremely unpicky. Swipe it on with the squeegee, done deal. About 5 minutes later it's dry, and you can sand it in like 20-30 minutes if you're impatient. If the ding is in the *bottom* of the elevator I doubt I'd even bother filling it until you're thinking about painting the plane. And then you could use an epoxy filler like Superfil or epoxy+micro, just steal a tiny bit from some other big batch of filling. People will tell you polyester fillers like Rage [Gold] aren't ideal...I tend to agree and try to use it only on feather fill applications. And my plane isn't even painted, so what do I know?! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Bill Dube <william.p.dube(at)noaa.gov>
Subject: Thermocouple Basics (was: Thermocouple wiring firewall pentrations)
Let's start with the fact that I worked at NIST for 20 years, much of that time in the group that wrote the thermocouple tables (NBS Monograph 125.) The voltage of a thermocouple circuit is generated along the wires. It is NOT generated at the junctions. (If you think it is generated at the junctions, try to explain why you need a reference junction.) As the wire passes through a difference in temperature, a voltage is generated. If you make a connection or splice of a different type of alloy, any temperature difference in that region will generate the wrong amount of voltage. If all of that region is the same temperature, no spurious voltage will be generated. Metal oxides generate a LOT of voltage. (Metal oxides typically have a very high Seebeck coefficient.) If you use the wrong connector, you will often cause oxides to form, causing a very large error in the temperature reading. The correct connectors and wire are easy to find and not very expensive for typical thermocouples you would use in an airplane. You need to know the "type" of thermocouple (like "K", "J", "T"...) and buy wires and connectors of that same type. Bill Dube' ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: ADIZ Requirements
I have submitted my comments to the FAA on this subject. However, for those who know or fly in the ADIZ I was wondering how you get back in once you leave the ADIZ. As I understand it you must file a flight plan to fly in the ADIZ. But if I file a flight plan to depart the ADIZ and the plan does not include my return to the ADIZ, but in flight I decide to re-enter the ADIZ, how do I do it? NOTE: This is RV related because if I do this it will be in my RV. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com>
Subject: Re: Doh! Elevator boo-boo
I would sure layout the skin to make sure where the dents line up with on the elevator structure before filling it. Plus the riveting process might interfere with the filler. I am sure you thought of this though. All this pre drilled stuff do make it easier in that regard. Tim -------Original Message------- From: Dan Checkoway Date: 10/27/05 09:14:50 Subject: Re: RV-List: Doh! Elevator boo-boo > I'm off to look at Dan Checkoways website to see how to use the Rage Gold. Dab a drop of the blue cream hardener in the yellow filler, mix it up well with a squeegee, and apply. There's some proper ratio of cream hardener to filler, probably in the instructions (not looking at it at the moment), but the stuff is extremely unpicky. Swipe it on with the squeegee, done deal About 5 minutes later it's dry, and you can sand it in like 20-30 minutes if you're impatient. If the ding is in the *bottom* of the elevator I doubt I'd even bother filling it until you're thinking about painting the plane. And then you could use an epoxy filler like Superfil or epoxy+micro, just steal a tiny bit from some other big batch of filling. People will tell you polyester fillers like Rage [Gold] aren't ideal...I tend to agree and try to use it only on feather fill applications. And my plane isn't even painted, so what do I know?! )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RobHickman(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Re: EGT probe sizes
In a message dated 10/26/2005 11:20:08 PM Pacific Standard Time, jmpcrftr(at)teleport.com writes: If the Dynon uses type K thermocouples, just use the existing EI thermocouples and you will have the holes filled up. EI uses K thermocouples. Yes, you'll probably have to change the connectors on one of the sets of cables. You also need to check if the Dynon is using ungrounded probes, the EI probes are not grounded. Rob Hickman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Cabin heat cable
From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net
I'm looking for a part number for this item: I have seen several RVs with a small red metallic control cable used to route heat to the cockpit. It typically has a silver colored centre. Can't seem to find this at any vendor. Can someone supply me with a vendor and part #? Thanks Steve RV7A #2 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Brad Oliver <brad(at)rv7factory.com>
Subject: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to rivet and be done with it. Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the archives. I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! Brad Oliver RV-7 Livermore, CA www.rv7factory.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
I would love to see this also. Please include to the list. Airplane is moved to the airport, so the tips can go on now. Couldn't get it out my garage door with them on. Tim -------Original Message------- From: Brad Oliver Date: 10/27/05 12:58:31 Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to rivet and be done with it. Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the archives. I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! Brad Oliver RV-7 Livermore, CA www.rv7factory.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
On 10/27 12:50, Brad Oliver wrote: > I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when > I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and > smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to > rivet and be done with it. > > Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same > debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took > at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, > glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, > but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the > archives. > > I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am > just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am > referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! Why not just 'git er done' now without doing all the finish work and leaving that for when you paint? Just pop rivet those suckers in place and glass them in later if you want. That's what I'm doing. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com Flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
I have a few pics that were sent to me by another builder who went to Sun n' Fun 2005. http://www.smittysrv.com/more_stuff.asp?ID=146 Smitty http://SmittysRV.com > > I would love to see this also. Please include to the list. > > Airplane is moved to the airport, so the tips can go on now. Couldn't get > it out my garage door with them on. > Tim > > -------Original Message------- > > From: Brad Oliver > Date: 10/27/05 12:58:31 > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? > > > I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when > I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and > smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to > rivet and be done with it. > > Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same > debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took > at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, > glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, > but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the > archives. > > I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am > just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am > referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! > > Brad Oliver > RV-7 > Livermore, CA > www.rv7factory.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard McBride" <rickrv8(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: ADIZ Requirements
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Bob, You have to file a second ADIZ flight plan. I fly in and out of Manassas and file Manassas direct Casanova VOR. My return flight plan is simply the reciprocal. If I'm out flying just for the day I file both plans at the same time. If I need to amend or file while in the air I simply Leesburg FSS. The flight plan is the same as a VFR plan other than you need to clearly tell them at the beginning that it is an ADIZ flight plan. The plan does not have to start and end at an airport. Be careful because FSSs outside the DC area don't always understand this point. I filed with Burlington, VT FSS on a trip home. The plan was from Casanova VOR direct Manassas. They took the flight plan just as they normally do. When I got down to Casanova, Potomac approach didn't have my plan. They had me circle for a couple of minutes and then came back with a xponder code and let me in. Come to find out, once I got home the Burlington FSS had called and left a message stating they couldn't enter a plan that started at a VOR and consequently they didn't file my plan. That little episode just goes to show that the whole ADIZ system is one big joke. It wastes everybody's time, creates a greater workload for the FSS and ATC and does absolutely nothing to keep us safe from Cessna 150s. By the way, AOPA has a very good on-line course about flying in and out of the ADIZ. I highly recommend you view this before attempting to negotiate the airspace. It's not really that difficult it's just an unnecessary pain and there's little mercy if you screw up. Rick McBride ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob<mailto:panamared3(at)brier.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, October 27, 2005 1:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: ADIZ Requirements I have submitted my comments to the FAA on this subject. However, for those who know or fly in the ADIZ I was wondering how you get back in once you leave the ADIZ. As I understand it you must file a flight plan to fly in the ADIZ. But if I file a flight plan to depart the ADIZ and the plan does not include my return to the ADIZ, but in flight I decide to re-enter the ADIZ, how do I do it? NOTE: This is RV related because if I do this it will be in my RV. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
Why not just 'git er done' now without doing all the finish work and leaving that for when you paint? Just pop rivet those suckers in place and glass them in later if you want. I second Walter's suggestion... except I thought it was 'getter done'. Darrell RV7A - 622DR Reserved --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com>
Subject: inside cowl prep
Date: Oct 27, 2005
A good scrubbing with soap (Dawn dishwashing soap) and water, followed by naptha will do your cowl wonders. John L. Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of nyman(at)bellsouth.net Subject: RV-List: inside cowl prep I've previously read that others have covered the inside of their engine cowl with resin and was curious if this meant epoxy resin without any hardener mixed with it. I've also heard that MEK is good for cleaning the cowl before applying the resin. Are there any other products that would be acceptable? Thanks in advance for your replies. Steve RV7 N174AS 140 hrs ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Jim Oke <wjoke(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Cabin heat cable
Hi; Would this be the item? http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_detail.php/pid=2143~subid=2518/index.html Jim Oke Wpg., MB RV-6A sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote: > >I'm looking for a part number for this item: > >I have seen several RVs with a small red metallic control cable used to >route heat to the cockpit. It typically has a silver colored centre. Can't >seem to find this at any vendor. > >Can someone supply me with a vendor and part #? > >Thanks >Steve >RV7A #2 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Depends on which side of the Mason / Dixon line your on!! Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com>
Subject: first flight
I have been on this list for about year and a half while building our RV 7A, There is so much information on this forum It gave me bits of information that helped, when I would have a problem or question during the build process Thanks to all of you!!!!! I wish to announce the first flight of N112B took place on October 17th at Leesburg Fl. (LEE) The plane has the Superior XP-IO-360 engine and a Hartzel C/S prop. We landed after 45 minutes, and no squawks. Jim Brown ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mts.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual
Date: Oct 27, 2005
> In a plane which gains altitude if I bend my knee and descends if I > straighten my leg (that's how I hold altitude when cruising, literally) -- > of course you're going to have some built-in sensitivity. Cool, I've never tried that. But in calm air it's easy to make turns and level out again by leaning left and right. Curt RV-6 C-GACR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: first flight
Date: Oct 28, 2005
Jim, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Jim Brown <acrojim(at)cfl.rr.com> > >I wish to announce the first flight of N112B took place on October 17th >at Leesburg Fl. (LEE) The plane has the Superior XP-IO-360 engine and a >Hartzel C/S prop. We landed after 45 minutes, and no squawks. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 27, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: first flight
On 10/27 7:11, Jim Brown wrote: > I have been on this list for about year and a half while building our RV > 7A, There is so much information on this forum It gave me bits of > information that helped, when I would have a problem or question during > the build process Thanks to all of you!!!!! > > I wish to announce the first flight of N112B took place on October 17th > at Leesburg Fl. (LEE) The plane has the Superior XP-IO-360 engine and a > Hartzel C/S prop. We landed after 45 minutes, and no squawks. Way to go Jim! Where's the pics? -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com Flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 28, 2005
Subject: ALODINE 1132 TOUCH-N-PREP on wing Spars?
Has anyone used the alodine touch-n-prep for the countersunk holes on the wing spar? According to Boeing: http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/environmental/TechNotes/TechNote s2003-02.pdf and the manufacturer: http://www.loctiteaero.com/Images/Datasheet_PDF/hst_tnpalodine1132.pdf This is a simple and clean way to provide corrosion protection. Seems like a lot less trouble than spot priming 4 gzillion little countersunk holes. Thoughts? Regards, Michael Wynn RV-8, Wings San Ramon, California ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2005
From: Paul Trotter <ptrotter(at)acm.org>
Subject: Re: ALODINE 1132 TOUCH-N-PREP on wing Spars?
That is exactly what I did on my spar. Paul Trotter RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit ----- Original Message ----- From: <MLWynn(at)aol.com> Subject: RV-List: ALODINE 1132 TOUCH-N-PREP on wing Spars? > > Has anyone used the alodine touch-n-prep for the countersunk holes on the > wing spar? According to Boeing: > > http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/doingbiz/environmental/TechNotes/TechNote > s2003-02.pdf > > and the manufacturer: > > http://www.loctiteaero.com/Images/Datasheet_PDF/hst_tnpalodine1132.pdf > > This is a simple and clean way to provide corrosion protection. Seems > like a > lot less trouble than spot priming 4 gzillion little countersunk holes. > > Thoughts? > > Regards, > > Michael Wynn > RV-8, Wings > San Ramon, California > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2005
From: bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Subject: Re: first flight
Quoting Jim Brown : > > I have been on this list for about year and a half while building our RV > 7A, There is so much information on this forum It gave me bits of > information that helped, when I would have a problem or question during > the build process Thanks to all of you!!!!! > > I wish to announce the first flight of N112B took place on October 17th > at Leesburg Fl. (LEE) The plane has the Superior XP-IO-360 engine and a > Hartzel C/S prop. We landed after 45 minutes, and no squawks. > > Jim Brown > > Jim: Congratulations''' I know the feeling,,, I had mine a few monts ago. I am in Orlando, really at Sanford Airport.. If you come this way stop by we have a few RV'S flying here... Bert > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2005
Subject: Re: electric vs manual trim
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Hi Don, putting in the speed control for the pitch is the way to go. Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2005
From: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Varsol
> >Varsol, Stanasol, Stoddard solvent, mineral spirits, Naptha, all the same >thing. Any auto parts store, Paint store, or Lube oil distributor > >Doug Rozendaal >Lube Oil Distributor > Naptha is not the same as the others. Naptha is also known as 'white-gas' or basically Coleman fuel. All the others are Mineral Spirits derived. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Charrois <danlist(at)syz.com>
Subject: Question about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 28, 2005
Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there already consider this to be reasonable. If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations, in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert. Does this sound reasonable? Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that I'm not under-torquing.. Thanks for your advice! Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2005
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual trim
I could never understand those enlightened naysayers who purport electric trim is either too sensitive or not sensitive enough. Oh really? By what measure pray tell? Well, count me among those fans who pronounce electric trim as "just right" and give it a thumbs up....way up. Sensitivity is easily adjusted with a pot screw on the MK-111 speed controller, but I suspect many builders have omitted its installation then go on to bemoan electric trim as too sensitive. At cruise speed or in the pattern, my electric trim installation delivers positive predictable response while obeying minuscule thumb commands on the Coolie hat. I've flown both manual and electric systems on various RV's and unquestionably, both DO work as advertised. But given the choice, I take minor issue with Van's manual trim system because of the following. #1. Unlike the manual trim wheel in my little old C-150, the manual trim that comes standard with RV's doesn't even have a deflection indicator. As a special bonus for manual trim enthusiasts, they get to adjust the trim wheel as part of preflight to insure a correct takeoff trim tab setting.....and THEN follow up by visually sighting the tab to be sure it is set where they think it is set. When I turn the master switch on, all I have to do is glance at the LED indicators on the instrument panel and "tweak the Coolie" to adjust for appropriate takeoff trim prior to flight. I can see at a glance what the deflection is. #2. As for manual trim, who can reasonably deny the substantial weight penalty of all that steel cable connected to the trim tab and snaking its way through the length of the fuselage to finally terminate at a trim wheel assembly occupying precious cockpit space? To those who subscribe to the old bromide that electric trim has too many points of failure, I maintain the worst runaway trim setting in an RV can be overridden by any competent pilot with a modicum of physical strength. The fact is, like sl iders or tip-ups, nosedraggers or taildraggers, chocolate or vanilla, the choice has always been.... an individual one. But to stubbornly allege electric trim is too sensitive or not sensitive enough suggests to me anecdotal evidence of an RV with built-in rigging problems, W&B issues or installation errors. I do believe the manual system is less prone to suffer from builder induced errors but installed correctly, BOTH systems work as advertised. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 90 hours RV-8A empennage complete....electric trim, of course ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual trim
Date: Oct 28, 2005
Just to put in one more word - we've got the manual trim on our 6-a and it always seems to hunt a little. If it wants to climb, a little down trim doesn't do much but a little more makes it want to descend. It's hard to get it trimmed just right. Back at the trim tab there's a little slop, probably from the 180 degree bend the cable makes at the center console. I added a spring over the cable end between the horn and the cable's outer cover which improved the situation measurably. I also found some slop in the hole in the trim tab horn which I dealt with using a little nylon bushing. I'm using the Gretz short cable and servo on the rear deck in my 6 project. If anybody wants a Van's trim cable I'll sell it for half price and whatever it costs to ship it to you. Pax, Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 28, 2005
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: electric vs manual trim
Mickey Coggins wrote: > > > >>... Sensitivity is easily adjusted with a pot screw on the >>MK-111 speed controller, but I suspect many builders have omitted its >>installation then go on to bemoan electric trim as too sensitive. ... >> >> > >What is the MK-111 speed controller, and where do I get one? >I googled it, and came up with this - is this the correct part? > > http://www.mbelectronics.com/view.aspx?id=117 > > http://www.mbelectronics.com/images%5Citems%5Cmk111.jpg > >Thanks, >Mickey > > > > Try here :-) http://www.matronics.com/ Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: Question about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 28, 2005
Dan You are absolutely correct in your reasoning and conclusions. Dean Van Winkle RV-9A Fuselage/Finish Retired Aeronautical Engineer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist(at)syz.com> Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts > > Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. > > I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be > the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction > between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop > nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely > not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon > insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. > > My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque > set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the > torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the > relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction > with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal > scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated > torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of > a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be > simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there > already consider this to be reasonable. > > If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque > of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations, > in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting > 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert. > Does this sound reasonable? > > Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what > I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that > I'm not under-torquing.. > > Thanks for your advice! > > Dan > -- > Syzygy Research & Technology > Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada > Phone: 780-961-2213 > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Question about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 29, 2005
The standard aircraft handbook gives torque values for nuts, not for bolts and gives the same values as published by van's. So you torque with 20-25lbs/in , torque with a lot more and you probably find that the bolt snaps...... The only time you will torque a bolt is when this is so indicated and you should use a washer under the head of the bolt. I can't recall any bolts being torqued in the RV designs. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist(at)syz.com> Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts > > Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. > > I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be > the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction > between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop > nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely > not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon > insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. > > My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque > set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the > torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the > relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction > with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal > scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated > torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of > a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be > simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there > already consider this to be reasonable. > > If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque > of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations, > in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting > 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert. > Does this sound reasonable? > > Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what > I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that > I'm not under-torquing.. > > Thanks for your advice! > > Dan > -- > Syzygy Research & Technology > Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada > Phone: 780-961-2213 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark Chamberlain" <mchamberlain(at)runbox.com>
Subject: Re: Question about torquing boltsQuestion about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 29, 2005
Dean, So would this mean then that all of the bolts with Nyloc nuts that I have been torquing to 20 to 25 in-lbs need to be re-tightened to 26-31 in-lbs? If this is correct; why don't Van's just list the correct torque to begin with? Is it just me that didn't catch this one or is it a common mistake? Thanks, Mark Dan You are absolutely correct in your reasoning and conclusions. Dean Van Winkle RV-9A Fuselage/Finish Retired Aeronautical Engineer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist(at)syz.com> Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts > > Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. > > I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be > the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction > between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop > nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely > not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon > insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. > > My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque > set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the > torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the > relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction > with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal > scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated > torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of > a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be > simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there > already consider this to be reasonable. > > If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque > of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations, > in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting > 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert. > Does this sound reasonable? > > Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what > I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that > I'm not under-torquing.. > > Thanks for your advice! > > Dan > -- > Syzygy Research & Technology > Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada > Phone: 780-961-2213 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Question about torquing boltsQuestion about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 29, 2005
Hi, quote is from the " Standard Aircraft Handbook" by Larry Reithmaier, page 150: fine tread series, standard type nuts ( MS20365, AN310, AN315) bolt size 10-32(AN3) 20-25 inch/lbs 1/4-28 50-70 inch/lbs 5/16-24 100 - 140 inch/lbs 3/8 - 24 160 - 190 inch/lbs 7/16 - 20 450 - 500 inch/lbs 1/2 - 20 480 - 690 inch/lbs 9/16 - 18 800 - 1000 inch/lbs 5/8 -18 1100 - 1300 inch/lbs 3/4 -16 2300 - 2500 inch/lbs I hope this helps and stop some people trying to re-invent the wheel and spend their time on building instead! :-) Other publications that might be of use for this type of queries is AC43.13-1B, acceptable methods, techniques and practises. This publication is more focused on repairs than construction but nevertheless contains helpful hints and other info. These books are inexpensive but most valuable to have if you work on aircraft regardless of size or type. You can get both publications through the builders bookstore, as a matter of fact andy is on the RV-list himself. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Chamberlain" <mchamberlain(at)runbox.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Question about torquing boltsQuestion about torquing bolts > > > Dean, > > So would this mean then that all of the bolts with Nyloc nuts that I > have been torquing to 20 to 25 in-lbs need to be re-tightened to 26-31 > in-lbs? > > If this is correct; why don't Van's just list the correct torque to > begin with? > > Is it just me that didn't catch this one or is it a common mistake? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > Dan > > You are absolutely correct in your reasoning and conclusions. > > Dean Van Winkle > RV-9A Fuselage/Finish Retired Aeronautical Engineer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist(at)syz.com> > Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts > > > > > > Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. > > > > I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should > be > > the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction > > between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For > non-stop > > nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's > likely > > not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon > > insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. > > > > My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the > torque > > set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the > > torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure > the > > relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the > friction > > with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a > postal > > scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated > > torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon > friction of > > a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be > > simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been > there > > already consider this to be reasonable. > > > > If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a > torque > > of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these > calculations, > > in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting > > 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon > insert. > > Does this sound reasonable? > > > > Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of > what > > I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure > that > > I'm not under-torquing.. > > > > Thanks for your advice! > > > > Dan > > -- > > Syzygy Research & Technology > > Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada > > Phone: 780-961-2213 > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Question about torquing boltsQuestion about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 29, 2005
From AC43.13-1B Change 1, Chapter 7, section 7-40: TORQUES c. Run the nut down to near contact with the washer or bearing surface and check the friction drag torque required to turn the nut. d. Add the friction drag torque to the desired torque. This is referred to as final torque, which should register on the indicator or setting for a snap-over type torque wrench. The friction torque will vary depending on what type of self-locking nut you are using, and whether the nut is new or reused. Van can't specify a friction torque. He assumes that people will assemble his aircraft using standard aviation practices, as described in documents like AC 43.13-1B. This is a standard reference, and everyone should have a copy, either hard copy, or an electronic version. You can download it from the FAA web site. Go to the Regulations and Policy section, and look for Advisory Circulars. Search for 43.13-1B. Kevin Horton On 29-Oct-05, at 05:21 , Mark Chamberlain wrote: > > > Dean, > > So would this mean then that all of the bolts with Nyloc nuts that I > have been torquing to 20 to 25 in-lbs need to be re-tightened to 26-31 > in-lbs? > > If this is correct; why don't Van's just list the correct torque to > begin with? > > Is it just me that didn't catch this one or is it a common mistake? > > Thanks, > > Mark > > > > > Dan > > You are absolutely correct in your reasoning and conclusions. > > Dean Van Winkle > RV-9A Fuselage/Finish Retired Aeronautical Engineer > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist(at)syz.com> > Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts > > >> >> Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. >> >> I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should >> > be > >> the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction >> between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For >> > non-stop > >> nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's >> > likely > >> not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon >> insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. >> >> My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the >> > torque > >> set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the >> torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure >> > the > >> relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the >> > friction > >> with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a >> > postal > >> scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated >> torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon >> > friction of > >> a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be >> simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been >> > there > >> already consider this to be reasonable. >> >> If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a >> > torque > >> of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these >> > calculations, > >> in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting >> 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon >> > insert. > >> Does this sound reasonable? >> >> Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of >> > what > >> I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure >> > that > >> I'm not under-torquing.. >> >> Thanks for your advice! >> >> Dan > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2005
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Re: electric vs manual trim
Mickey, I purchased a MK-111 out of Van's catalog in late 2001 and the price was $67.33 at that time. As you can see from the link, the price is only slightly higher today. http://tinyurl.com/a4ssb Rick What is the MK-111 speed controller, and where do I get one? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject: Re: Question about torquing boltsQuestion about torquing bolts
Date: Oct 29, 2005
Mark The simple answer to your question is "Yes" and thanks to Kevin for the additional clarifying info. Dean ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Horton" <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Question about torquing boltsQuestion about torquing bolts > > From AC43.13-1B Change 1, Chapter 7, section 7-40: TORQUES > > c. Run the nut down to near contact with the washer or bearing > surface and check the friction drag torque required to turn the nut. > > d. Add the friction drag torque to the desired torque. This is > referred to as final torque, which should register on the indicator > or setting for a snap-over type torque wrench. > > The friction torque will vary depending on what type of self-locking > nut you are using, and whether the nut is new or reused. Van can't > specify a friction torque. He assumes that people will assemble his > aircraft using standard aviation practices, as described in documents > like AC 43.13-1B. This is a standard reference, and everyone should > have a copy, either hard copy, or an electronic version. You can > download it from the FAA web site. Go to the Regulations and Policy > section, and look for Advisory Circulars. Search for 43.13-1B. > > Kevin Horton > > On 29-Oct-05, at 05:21 , Mark Chamberlain wrote: > >> >> >> Dean, >> >> So would this mean then that all of the bolts with Nyloc nuts that I >> have been torquing to 20 to 25 in-lbs need to be re-tightened to 26-31 >> in-lbs? >> >> If this is correct; why don't Van's just list the correct torque to >> begin with? >> >> Is it just me that didn't catch this one or is it a common mistake? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Mark >> >> >> >> >> Dan >> >> You are absolutely correct in your reasoning and conclusions. >> >> Dean Van Winkle >> RV-9A Fuselage/Finish Retired Aeronautical Engineer >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Dan Charrois" <danlist(at)syz.com> >> Subject: RV-List: Question about torquing bolts >> >> >>> >>> Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly. >>> >>> I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should >>> >> be >> >>> the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction >>> between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For >>> >> non-stop >> >>> nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's >>> >> likely >> >>> not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon >>> insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant. >>> >>> My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the >>> >> torque >> >>> set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the >>> torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure >>> >> the >> >>> relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the >>> >> friction >> >>> with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a >>> >> postal >> >>> scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated >>> torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon >>> >> friction of >> >>> a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be >>> simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been >>> >> there >> >>> already consider this to be reasonable. >>> >>> If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a >>> >> torque >> >>> of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these >>> >> calculations, >> >>> in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting >>> 26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon >>> >> insert. >> >>> Does this sound reasonable? >>> >>> Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of >>> >> what >> >>> I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure >>> >> that >> >>> I'm not under-torquing.. >>> >>> Thanks for your advice! >>> >>> Dan >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oliver Washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fly-in
Date: Oct 29, 2005
One week until our Fall RV Fly-in at Love's Landing Airpark (97FL) in Central Florida for the best bar-b-que lunch in the Southeast. There will be coffee and donuts for the early birds. No program, just a good lunch and tall tales. Where-Love's Landing Airpark (97FL) 21nm SE of Ocala on 130* radial. N28*57.42 W081*53.29 When-Sat. Nov 5th , lunch at noon and coffee and donuts for early birds. Rain date Nov 6th. What- Bar-b que pork, hamburgers, hotdogs, baked beans, coleslaw and all the other fixins. Our Spring fly-in was rained out twice so hope for good weather and a large turnout for this one. "This is a private airpark so land at your own risk" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 29, 2005
Subject: Re: electric vs manual trim
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Mikey, The Ray allen co has their own screw adjustable speed controller. No need to go any further! Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lancenewman" <lancenewman(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-10 lateral trim
Date: Oct 29, 2005
This was the most effective method I found for my RV6. Purchase a new outboard aileron bracket and correct the probable assymetry between the left and right side aileron. In my case, I had a right wing heavy condition due to a very small rise in the right outer aileron bracket position relative to wing rear spar mounting point. Sometimes you can't even see difference without laying a straight edge across it. In any case, you lower the bracket position slightly relative to the main wing rear spar mounting point to correct the heavy wing. In my case I was running 8 lbs heavy to the right side. 8 lbs of extra fuel in the left tank would balance the aircraft out. The 8 lb condition was corrected by dropping the right aileron bracket by 1mm. It is strictly a trial and error method. Get 2 new outboard brackets. Use the first as a test bed by elongating the holes and tweaking the positioning a mm at a time until the problem is nullified. Then measure the spec and drill the second bracket to meet that spec. Some guys just use the elongated hole method as a final fix, but I am too much of a purist for that. Good Luck LN ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Denk" <akroguy(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-10 lateral trim > > >>Greetings all: >> >>I am flying the test time off of a friend's new RV-10. It now has about >>21 >>hours total time but is flying left wing heavy. As you the RV-10's >>ailerons >>are constructed differently than the "old" RVs which allowed the "squeeze >>the aileron trick" to adjust lateral trim. It appears the only way to >>correct this trim issue is to install a balsa TE piece under the right >>aileron to bring that aileron up or to tweak the flap rigging. Does >>anyone >>have another other suggestions. Right now we are3 using the balsa TE >>material method as a temporary fix. >> >>Thanks >> >>Doug Weiler >>Pres, MN Wing > > > Move over and fly from the right seat? > > Sorry, couldn't resist. > > I'm also new to the riveted trailing edge phenomena and have wondered how > to > trim the ailerons in the future on my -10. I think you can tweak the > trailing edge up or down with very judicious use of a hand seamer. > Perhaps > it would only require a tiny amount of bias up or down to change the way > the > aileron rides in neutral position. Otherwise, the balsa TE stock > technique > is tried and true. Also, I tried monkeying around with flap postion on my > -8 to trim out some roll with zero results. They seem to be too close in > to > the roll axis down the fuselage centerline to be of much help. Now, the > RV10 flaps go darn near full span so you might gain something there. > > Van's might have something to say about this, so I'd ask them too. > > Brian Denk > RV8 N94BD > RV10 '51 > moving into airpark home this week. Where did I pack the rivet gun..... > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LClark6372(at)aol.com
Date: Oct 30, 2005
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 9 Msgs - 10/29/05
LOOKING FOR RV8 (TW) NEARING FINAL ASSEMBLY......LCLARK6372(at)AOL.COM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 30, 2005
From: gerns25(at)netscape.net
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
I looked through the archives and found some info on the subject but it refered to complete kits (the entire airframe) not just a sub kit. I am considering purchasing a previously owned RV7 Empenage kit (the spar has been started) and am curious about the repairmans certificate. I read the article from Vans on the vansairforce website and would like to know what, if anything, I need to do to be eligible for the repairmans certificate when I complete the airplane. I plan on buying new subkits from here on out as I want to do the construction (unless other pre-owned come up that haven't been started or have minimal work done). Can anyone tell me the rules are? Can I still get the repairmans certificate even though I am not the original purchaser of this empenage kit? Thanks guys! Darin Hawkes N619PB (res) Look What The New Netscape.com Can Do! Now you can preview dozens of stories and have the ones you select delivered to you without ever leaving the Top Home Page. And the new Tool Box gives you one click access to local Movie times, Maps, White Pages and more. See for yourself at http://netcenter.netscape.com/netcenter/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
Darin, You will be able be named as the repairman as long as you build 51% of the kit. If you complete the rest of the kit yourself, even a quickbuild, you won't jeopardize your 51% status by purchasing a finished (or less) empennage. The key is that you be able to sign the affidavit affirming your "major portion" of the construction. Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 831-722-9141 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
Rules are simple. You have to sign a statement that you built the airplane and convince the DAR that you really did. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gerns25(at)netscape.net Subject: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. I looked through the archives and found some info on the subject but it refered to complete kits (the entire airframe) not just a sub kit. I am considering purchasing a previously owned RV7 Empenage kit (the spar has been started) and am curious about the repairmans certificate. I read the article from Vans on the vansairforce website and would like to know what, if anything, I need to do to be eligible for the repairmans certificate when I complete the airplane. I plan on buying new subkits from here on out as I want to do the construction (unless other pre-owned come up that haven't been started or have minimal work done). Can anyone tell me the rules are? Can I still get the repairmans certificate even though I am not the original purchaser of this empenage kit? Thanks guys! Darin Hawkes N619PB (res) Look What The New Netscape.com Can Do! Now you can preview dozens of stories and have the ones you select delivered to you without ever leaving the Top Home Page. And the new Tool Box gives you one click access to local Movie times, Maps, White Pages and more. See for yourself at http://netcenter.netscape.com/netcenter/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
yes , I think you can buy a completed emp and still get it.. Danny.. ----- Original Message ----- From: <gerns25(at)netscape.net> Subject: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. > > I looked through the archives and found some info on the subject but it > refered to complete kits (the entire airframe) not just a sub kit. I am > considering purchasing a previously owned RV7 Empenage kit (the spar has > been started) and am curious about the repairmans certificate. I read the > article from Vans on the vansairforce website and would like to know what, > if anything, I need to do to be eligible for the repairmans certificate > when I complete the airplane. I plan on buying new subkits from here on > out as I want to do the construction (unless other pre-owned come up that > haven't been started or have minimal work done). Can anyone tell me the > rules are? Can I still get the repairmans certificate even though I am > not the original purchaser of this empenage kit? Thanks guys! > > Darin Hawkes > N619PB (res) > > Look What The New Netscape.com Can Do! > Now you can preview dozens of stories and have the ones you select > delivered to you without ever leaving the Top Home Page. And the new Tool > Box gives you one click access to local Movie times, Maps, White Pages and > more. See for yourself at http://netcenter.netscape.com/netcenter/ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
No, don't confuse the requirements for the Repairman Certificate with the requirements for the Airworthiness Certificate. The 51% rule applies only to the Airworthiness Certificate and is a requirement to certify the airplane in the Experimental category. It doesn't require that any one person does the 51% - only that 51% be "amateur" built. If the aircraft doesn't meet the 51% rule it would have to get certified (or not at all) under one of the other Experimental categories such as Exhibition, R&D, Market Survey, Crew Training, etc. which all have more onerous operating limitations. The Repairman Certificate requires convincing the FSDO inspector (last I heard DAR's could not issue it) that you participated in the building of the airccraft "enough" to maintain it. One member of a group build can get it so there obviously is no special amount of participation required. Locally, it seems the inspector wants to see enough logs and pictures so he can BS for half a day and not do other work. YMMV Regards, Greg Young RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > Darin, > > You will be able be named as the repairman as long as you > build 51% of the kit. If you complete the rest of the kit > yourself, even a quickbuild, you won't jeopardize your 51% > status by purchasing a finished (or less) empennage. The key > is that you be able to sign the affidavit affirming your > "major portion" of the construction. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 831-722-9141 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Oops, I used angle brackets that got dropped as an HTML tag. That should have said... > Certificate. The 51% rule applies only to the Airworthiness > Certificate and is a requirement to certify the airplane in > the Experimental "Amateur-Built" category. It doesn't require that any one > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: sturdy(at)att.net
Subject: Texas Formation Clinic
Date: Oct 31, 2005
1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO Gainesville TX Formation Clinic There was sufficient interest shown from the last advertisement for a Texas Formation Clinic that we will schedule it for the weekend before Thanksgiving, 18-20 Nov, at Gainesville TX (GLE), 45 Northwest of Dallas as the host site. It has everything we need for a successful clinic. We find about 1/3 low, 1/3 medium, 1/3 high experienced formation pilots is a good mix for a good formation clinic. We have additional room available for more participants. If you have good stick and rudder skills and would plan on attending the clinic, given good weather, please email me at sturdy-at-att-dot-net by 2 Nov. Include Name, City/State, Aircraft, Tail#, Formation experience level, email address, telephone#. Stu McCurdy (Falcon) Gainesville TX Formation Clinic There was sufficient interest shown from the last advertisement for a Texas Formation Clinicthat we will schedule it for the weekend before Thanksgiving, 18-20 Nov,at Gainesville TX (GLE), 45 Northwest of Dallas as the host site. It has everything we need for a successful clinic. We find about 1/3 low, 1/3 medium, 1/3 high experienced formation pilots is a good mix for a good formation clinic. We have additional room available for more participants. If you have good stick and rudder skills and would plan on attending the clinic, given good weather, please email me at sturdy-at-att-dot-net by 2 Nov. Include Name, City/State, Aircraft, Tail#, Formation experience level, email address, telephone#. Stu McCurdy (Falcon) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
Darin, You should have no problem. Just keep a builder's log as you go from here. There are even people that get semi-finished kits much further along than the empenage and they qualify for their Repairman's certificate. Mike Robertson Das Fed >From: gerns25(at)netscape.net >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. >Date: Sun, 30 Oct 2005 17:15:13 -0500 > > >I looked through the archives and found some info on the subject but it >refered to complete kits (the entire airframe) not just a sub kit. I am >considering purchasing a previously owned RV7 Empenage kit (the spar has >been started) and am curious about the repairmans certificate. I read the >article from Vans on the vansairforce website and would like to know what, >if anything, I need to do to be eligible for the repairmans certificate >when I complete the airplane. I plan on buying new subkits from here on >out as I want to do the construction (unless other pre-owned come up that >haven't been started or have minimal work done). Can anyone tell me the >rules are? Can I still get the repairmans certificate even though I am not >the original purchaser of this empenage kit? Thanks guys! > >Darin Hawkes >N619PB (res) > >Look What The New Netscape.com Can Do! >Now you can preview dozens of stories and have the ones you select >delivered to you without ever leaving the Top Home Page. And the new Tool >Box gives you one click access to local Movie times, Maps, White Pages and >more. See for yourself at http://netcenter.netscape.com/netcenter/ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "b.e.isham" <b.e.isham(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV Tool Kit
Date: Oct 30, 2005
For those who may have missed the September special, PlaneTools.com now has the DRDT-2 Dimpler as a FREE upgrade on the RV tool kit. This is a great tool that reflects the quality of the RV tool kit. In addition to the sheet metal tool kit, mechanic tools are being added. The website address is HYPERLINK "http://www.planetools.com"http://www.planetools.com <http://www.planetools.com> Shane Isham ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "randall" <rv6n6r(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV Tool Kit
Date: Oct 30, 2005
Anyone living in southern Germany interested in a visit from a fellow RVer? My wife and I are heading over on Tuesday Nov. 1. Email offline, rv6n6r(at)comcast.net. Randall Henderson RV6 ~700 hrs Portland, OR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 30, 2005
Darin, I did exactly what you are doing. Acquired an RV6 tail kit with only the spar completed, built the complete airplane from Van's standard kits and have the Repairman's Certificate. I had a detailed construction logbook, a pretty complete photo album, all receipts, my newly obtained airworthiness certificate, registration, and my Letter of Operating Limitations and a completed application for the Repairman Certificate all for the FSDO's examination. I had all the paperwork from the aircraft along but the DAR will tell you what you need when you apply to certify your airplane. The FAA FSDO person only casually looked at the picture album but did look for pictures with me in them along with the project, checked the paperwork the DAR had given me (airworthiness, registration, limitations, etc.) and my pilots license. The certification papers were copied as well as my pilot's license. He then gave me a temporary Repairman Certificate on the spot with the actual certificate arriving about a month later. It never occurred to me to mentioned that I had acquired a partially started kit and I don't believe it would make a difference if I would have. The whole thing took no more than 20 minutes at most. Dick DeCramer RV6 N500DD 95 hours Minnesota > [Original Message] > From: <gerns25(at)netscape.net> > To: > Date: 10/30/2005 4:36:29 PM > Subject: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. > > > I looked through the archives and found some info on the subject but it refered to complete kits (the entire airframe) not just a sub kit. I am considering purchasing a previously owned RV7 Empenage kit (the spar has been started) and am curious about the repairmans certificate. I read the article from Vans on the vansairforce website and would like to know what, if anything, I need to do to be eligible for the repairmans certificate when I complete the airplane. I plan on buying new subkits from here on out as I want to do the construction (unless other pre-owned come up that haven't been started or have minimal work done). Can anyone tell me the rules are? Can I still get the repairmans certificate even though I am not the original purchaser of this empenage kit? Thanks guys! > > Darin Hawkes > N619PB (res) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
Date: Oct 31, 2005
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective 11/01/05. O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert.
Date: Oct 31, 2005
Greg, you're right, the 51% rule is not the driver for the repairman's certificate. In my experience, the FAA uses the knowledge possessed by the builder to judge his ability to act as the repairman. Building 51% is usually a slam dunk in the knowledge department, no questions asked. That's why I suggested that if Darin builds 51%, he should be assured of getting the repairman's certificate. I said he had to build 51% in order to get it, which is not quite right, as you pointed out. Dave Saylor -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. No, don't confuse the requirements for the Repairman Certificate with the requirements for the Airworthiness Certificate. The 51% rule applies only to the Airworthiness Certificate and is a requirement to certify the airplane in the Experimental category. It doesn't require that any one person does the 51% - only that 51% be "amateur" built. If the aircraft doesn't meet the 51% rule it would have to get certified (or not at all) under one of the other Experimental categories such as Exhibition, R&D, Market Survey, Crew Training, etc. which all have more onerous operating limitations. The Repairman Certificate requires convincing the FSDO inspector (last I heard DAR's could not issue it) that you participated in the building of the airccraft "enough" to maintain it. One member of a group build can get it so there obviously is no special amount of participation required. Locally, it seems the inspector wants to see enough logs and pictures so he can BS for half a day and not do other work. YMMV Regards, Greg Young RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > Darin, > > You will be able be named as the repairman as long as you > build 51% of the kit. If you complete the rest of the kit > yourself, even a quickbuild, you won't jeopardize your 51% > status by purchasing a finished (or less) empennage. The key > is that you be able to sign the affidavit affirming your > "major portion" of the construction. > > Dave Saylor > AirCrafters LLC > 831-722-9141 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2005
From: Mike Draper <rv8tor(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Installing the outboard bottom skin.
Listers: Looking for some suggestions/clarifications on the best way to install the outboard bottom skins on my RV-8 QB project. The manual states... ...."Once the inboard skin is riveted, the outboard is installed the same way, beginning on the inboard rib and working toward the tip. Leave the inboard line of rivets that joins the two skins only (no rib) until last." I get the point of working the rivets in an L pattern and starting on the inboard and working towards the tip. However, how does one leave the inboard line of rivets that joins the two skins until last? Can you really save that till last if you start on the inboard side and work towards the tip of the wing? I am not planning on using pop rivets on this skin. Or do they really mean to start on the outboard side of the wing and move inboard? Also, would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how this could be accomplished solo. Thanks in advance. -Mike Draper RV-8 QB (finish) N468RV ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Marty Helller" <marty_away(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Did the first kit owner request his Repairmans Cert?
Date: Oct 31, 2005
One question to ask when buying a pre-owned kit is if the partially built aircraft was registered. If so, the previous builder might have applied for his repairman certificate (even though it wasn't an aircraft yet). If the previous owner had put in for a repairman's certificate, then he will have to get a notorized form to remove his name from the aircraft serial number, before they allow you to register as the certified builder to get your repairman's certificate (even if the tail number had changed). It may not be an issue for you, but it was for me..... and this will save you some registration hassles. The former owner was real helpful in getting this cleared up, despite having to get stuff notarized, twice. Do Not Archieve Marty Heller RV-7 (Almost ready to tip the canoe) >From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)aircraftersllc.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. >Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 09:03:32 -0800 > > >Greg, you're right, the 51% rule is not the driver for the repairman's >certificate. In my experience, the FAA uses the knowledge possessed by the >builder to judge his ability to act as the repairman. Building 51% is >usually a slam dunk in the knowledge department, no questions asked. >That's >why I suggested that if Darin builds 51%, he should be assured of getting >the repairman's certificate. I said he had to build 51% in order to get >it, >which is not quite right, as you pointed out. > >Dave Saylor > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Young >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: Pre-owned kits and Repairmans Cert. > > >No, don't confuse the requirements for the Repairman Certificate with >the requirements for the Airworthiness Certificate. The 51% rule applies >only to the Airworthiness Certificate and is a requirement to certify >the airplane in the Experimental category. It doesn't >require that any one person does the 51% - only that 51% be "amateur" >built. If the aircraft doesn't meet the 51% rule it would have to get >certified (or not at all) under one of the other Experimental categories >such as Exhibition, R&D, Market Survey, Crew Training, etc. which all >have more onerous operating limitations. > >The Repairman Certificate requires convincing the FSDO inspector (last I >heard DAR's could not issue it) that you participated in the building of >the airccraft "enough" to maintain it. One member of a group build can >get it so there obviously is no special amount of participation >required. Locally, it seems the inspector wants to see enough logs and >pictures so he can BS for half a day and not do other work. YMMV > >Regards, >Greg Young >RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix >Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > > > > > > > Darin, > > > > You will be able be named as the repairman as long as you > > build 51% of the kit. If you complete the rest of the kit > > yourself, even a quickbuild, you won't jeopardize your 51% > > status by purchasing a finished (or less) empennage. The key > > is that you be able to sign the affidavit affirming your > > "major portion" of the construction. > > > > Dave Saylor > > AirCrafters LLC > > 831-722-9141 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Installing the outboard bottom skin.
Date: Oct 31, 2005
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
-------------------- I get the point of working the rivets in an L pattern and starting on the inboard and working towards the tip. However, how does one leave the inboard line of rivets that joins the two skins until last? Can you really save that till last if you start on the inboard side and work towards the tip of the wing? I am not planning on using pop rivets on this skin. Or do they really mean to start on the outboard side of the wing and move inboard? Also, would appreciate any tips or suggestions on how this could be accomplished solo. Thanks in advance. -Mike Draper -------------------- Mike, I riveted my first wing lower skin solo, and will be doing the second one hopefully this weekend. Near the trailing edge, you have to do the rivets in the overlap area the same way you do the rest. I did all the rivets (including the overlap) that required the skin to be held back for access at the same time. Once I determined that I had sufficient/easy access through the access panels and lightening holes (more than halfway up), I left those until later. I did mine mostly with the wing on the ground (on a piece of carpet) and layed across the LE to reach in with the bucking bar. I used a towel around the free edge to keep me from decapitating myself. The toughest part for me was the trailing edge between the inboard (closely spaced) ribs, because my fat arms don't fit between the ribs! I had helped my son do his lower wing skins last year, and we had more difficulty doing it with 2 of us! He had his wing on a table, and I think that is a lot tougher than doing it on the ground. One item of interest. As I was doing the skin, I layed it down on the frame once in a while to see how it fit. Early on, it looked like I was going to have a big gap between the LE skins and the bottom skin, and I was concerned. However as I continued it lined up better and better. I think working from TE to LE helps here. The gap on my first wing is just fine - less than 1/32". Good luck! Dennis Glaeser 7A Wings (plan to finish the second tank tonight - once the trick-or-treaters are gone) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2005
From: Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
Hi Rhonda, What's the price on your O-320 D2A including s&h to 93210 (Coalinga, Cal.) ? Thanks, Chuck Rhonda Bewley wrote: Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective 11/01/05. O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Oct 31, 2005
From: Gordon Arbeitman <gordona23(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-7A in the daytona area
Hi; I'm looking for an RV-7 owner in the Daytona Beach area who might be willing to give me a ride (in exchange for lunch ?). I'm currently flying a Grumman Tiger and have started thinking about moving away from the "certified" world. I'd also appreciate thoughts from anyone who has experience with both airplanes. Thanks. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com>
Subject: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
Date: Oct 31, 2005
Just a follow-up to my prior post... In response to my post, Darwin Barrie was kind enough to email me some pictures of his empennage fiberglass work (which looks amazing). He asked me to share them with the group, and since several of you emailed me saying you were also interested in pictures, I posted them online. Darwin's work can be seen here... http://www.rv7factory.com/darwin.html Cheers, Brad -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Oliver Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to rivet and be done with it. Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the archives. I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! Brad Oliver RV-7 Livermore, CA www.rv7factory.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <sears(at)searnet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7A in the daytona area
Date: Nov 01, 2005
> >Hi Gordon! > >I'm curious why you'd go from a 4-place to a 2 place. I'm going in the > >other direction ..... giving up my AA-1B for an RV-10. > > Seems that he has seen the light of an RV. That should be good enough. > No doubt an RV-10 is great for many people but I will stay with my -6A. > I made the move in 2000. I had a Grumman American Cheetah. After I got my hours flown off in Scooter, I had to make the decision to let my Cheetah go after flying it for over nine years. Even though my wife told me I could keep both, I knew I couldn't. It was a real heartbreaker letting the Cheetah go; but, it went to a good home. The guy I sold it to had a two place Grumman and wanted mine for a long time. Still, I find myself needing a four place airplane, from time to time. If I could afford one, I'd build a RV-10; but, I know I can't afford to feed it, much less own it. With that, I'm going to be a two place RVer, I guess. If I ever get tired of my -6A, I'll buy a Tiger. It should keep up with Scooter. :-) Jim Sears in KY RV-6A N198JS (Scooter) RV-7A #70317 EAA Tech Counselor ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Installing the outboard bottom skin
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Hi Mike- I don't believe you need to wait until the whole wing is riveted to put the inboard row in. If you were to put the lap joint outboard row in, and a half or so of the rivets in the LE and TE of that first bay, you should be fine putting in the inboard row of rivets. I believe the whole point is to make sure that there is no distortion of the lap joint area induced by local flexing of the wing skin as a result of holding the bulk of the skin out of the way. When I did mine, I found that I could shoot the vast majority of the rivets just fine all by myself. While working on the wings, I pulled my workbench out into the middle of my shop, and wrapped the bench top in non-skid padding. This padding is available as drawer liner (relatively expensive) and as area rug non-skid underlayment (relatively cheap, and a couple aisles down from the drawer liner). I used a nail in the overhead joisting and some kite string to support the free end of the wing skin in an appropriate position and went to town! I would strongly recommend at least a long sleeved shirt, and preferably a towel or more of the padding material through the appropriate lightening hole. This will go a long ways towards protecting your arm. Likewise, a double layered patch of the non-skid padding laying on the inner surface of the upper wing skin, located where you are bucking, will help protect that skin from the occasion when you are making that difficult reach and your fingers cramp, you loose your grip, and drop the bucking bar onto the wing skin below. You may wonder how I know this.... Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Chuck: The O-320-D1A comes with all new Lycoming parts, including roller tappets/cam, new Lycoming fuel pump, new Slick magnetos and harness, spark plugs, new lightweight Skytec starter and a Precision Airmotive carburetor rebuilt to new parts limits, all fittings and fuel line hoses, silicone rocker box covers, balanced rotating assembly, new cylinders inspected and seats cut to ensure valve:seat geometry, cylinders ported/flow matched, 1.5 dynomometer break in (with full power run) and crating for $23,800. The current freight quote from Yellow is $438.80 to the dock in Fresno, which is the closest location to you. I am waiting to hear back from them on a figure for door-to-door shipment. I have another service that I use that is generally $100 or so less than Yellow. I am waiting to hear back from them on shipment as well. We can also bump up the compression a bit, although we're not very comfortable going much above 9:1 in a carbureted engine. If you would like any additional information or have any questions, please feel free to contact us at (918) 835-1089 or visit our website at www.barrettprecisionengines.com. Best regards, Rhonda -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Subject: Re: RV-List: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines Hi Rhonda, What's the price on your O-320 D2A including s&h to 93210 (Coalinga, Cal.) ? Thanks, Chuck Rhonda Bewley wrote: Barrett Precision Engines is proud to announce a price decrease in the following experimental kit engines for the homebuilder, effective 11/01/05. O-320-D1A - Variable Pitch O-320-D2A - Fixed Pitch O-360-A1A - Variable Pitch O-360-A4M - Fixed Pitch Rhonda Barrett-Bewley Barrett Precision Engines, Inc. 2870-B N. Sheridan Rd. Tulsa, OK 74115 (918) 835-1089 phone (918) 835-1754 fax www.barrettprecisionengines.com --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Price Decrease -Lycoming Kit Engines
> >We can also bump up the compression a bit, although we're not very >comfortable going much above 9:1 in a carbureted engine. Very interesting. What is the reasoning behind this? Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: Gerns25(at)netscape.net
Subject: Thoughts on Tool kits
I am going to be purchasing a tool kit in the next couple of days. I have heard that the Avery is the best buy (or maybe the most commonly purchased kit). I have been looking at the kit put together by Planetools.com and am especially interested in the upgraded C-frame dimpler. Does anyone have experience with both kits or have any opinions on which one is the "best" buy. Comparing the tool lists, it looks like the Avery comes with a few more tools but it is $300+ more and doesn't offer the cool dimpler. Can someone who has built an RV take a look at the complete list of tools on www.planetools.com for me and tell me what they think from experience? Thanks for the help. Darin Switch to Netscape Internet Service. As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register Netscape. Just the Net You Need. New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
Date: Nov 01, 2005
How did he cover the intersection of fiberglass to aluminum? I talked to sun n funs winner this year and he used West systems tough filler, not the brown, easy stuff. Its not very easy to sand. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? > > Just a follow-up to my prior post... > > In response to my post, Darwin Barrie was kind enough to email me some > pictures of his empennage fiberglass work (which looks amazing). He asked > me to share them with the group, and since several of you emailed me > saying > you were also interested in pictures, I posted them online. > > Darwin's work can be seen here... http://www.rv7factory.com/darwin.html > > Cheers, > Brad > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Oliver > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? > > > I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when > I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and > smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to > rivet and be done with it. > > Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same > debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took > at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, > glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, > but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the > archives. > > I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am > just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am > referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! > > Brad Oliver > RV-7 > Livermore, CA > www.rv7factory.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: When to Paint the Cockpit?
On 11/01 10:59, Dwight Frye wrote: > I want to solicit some opinions from the collective wisdom of the > list. I am closing in on completing all the various things needed > after the initial fitting of the wings (i.e. drilling the belly skin > to the inboard rib, fitting the wing root fairing, installing the > flap pushrod, etc., etc.). I put both wings on to do the setting of > the sweep/incidence and for drilling the rear spart attach bolt hole, > but then took one wing off so I could close my garage again. This > means I'm doing things in stages, and am leaving the installing of > the plumbing in the cockpit until after all the wing-specific work > is complete. > > It _seems_ to me that this is the perfect time to paint the cockpit. > It is before any of the plumbing has been run, any wires are run, and > while I can easily push my rudder cables back out of the line of fire. > The rudder pedals are currently out, and I have not installed the FI > pump or the fuel selector in the center of the cockpit yet (though they > are all fitted/drilled and ready to install). In other words, all those > things that I don't want to get paint on are at the moment already out > of my way. To top it off, all the various panels that should be painted > independently are already off the plane as well. What am I missing that > will make me sorry I painted now rather than later? Paint Away! -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com Flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: dsvs(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Tool kits
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Either kit is fine. I have and use A DRDT1 dimpler, great product. However you will find that the old style will come in handy for the seat backs and the baffels for riveting purposes. Don > > I am going to be purchasing a tool kit in the next couple of days. I have heard > that the Avery is the best buy (or maybe the most commonly purchased kit). I > have been looking at the kit put together by Planetools.com and am especially > interested in the upgraded C-frame dimpler. Does anyone have experience with > both kits or have any opinions on which one is the "best" buy. Comparing the > tool lists, it looks like the Avery comes with a few more tools but it is $300+ > more and doesn't offer the cool dimpler. Can someone who has built an RV take a > look at the complete list of tools on www.planetools.com for me and tell me what > they think from experience? Thanks for the help. > > Darin > > Switch to Netscape Internet Service. > As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register > > Netscape. Just the Net You Need. > > New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer > Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups. > Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: hot cylinder cure
>Some cylinders run hot simply because the baffles are too tight in the >wrong areas. Specifically the front face of the #2 and the rear face of >the #5 cylinder (540 Lycs) or #3 (4 cylinder Lycs) don't get enough >airflow past the baffles. It's easy to fix with a few washers. > >Vince I tried this suggestion and it worked great! All CHTs are within 2 degrees. It took one washer on the number 3 cylinder. Thanks Vince Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Empennage Tips - Pictures?
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Fill the gap just to smooth it out, lay up one ply of 1oz "deck cloth", feather fill. http://www.rvproject.com/20031228.html http://www.rvproject.com/20031230.html http://www.rvproject.com/20031231.html )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? > > > How did he cover the intersection of fiberglass to aluminum? I talked to > sun n funs winner this year and he used West systems tough filler, not the > brown, easy stuff. Its not very easy to sand. > > Shemp/Jeff Dowling > RV-6A, N915JD > 235 hours > Chicago/Louisville > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com> > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? > > >> >> Just a follow-up to my prior post... >> >> In response to my post, Darwin Barrie was kind enough to email me some >> pictures of his empennage fiberglass work (which looks amazing). He >> asked >> me to share them with the group, and since several of you emailed me >> saying >> you were also interested in pictures, I posted them online. >> >> Darwin's work can be seen here... http://www.rv7factory.com/darwin.html >> >> Cheers, >> Brad >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Brad Oliver >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: Empennage Tips - Pictures? >> >> >> I am trying to decide how I want to finish my fiberglass emp tips (when >> I get around to doing so). In other words, do I want to glass and >> smooth the fiberglass to aluminum transition, or do I just want to >> rivet and be done with it. >> >> Anywhooo... I seem to remember someone out there going through the same >> debate, and having an online photo album of close-up pictures they took >> at Oshkosh of the different methods of installing the tips (e.g. rivets, >> glass n' smooth, screws). I thought I saved the link in my favorites, >> but apparently not, and I can't seem to locate the info (URL) in the >> archives. >> >> I am not looking to debate the merits of the different methods, I am >> just trying to locate the pictures... if someone knows what I am >> referring to and has the link, could you please send it to me? Thanks! >> >> Brad Oliver >> RV-7 >> Livermore, CA >> www.rv7factory.com >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Subject: Re: When to Paint the Cockpit?
In a message dated 11/1/05 10:02:47 AM Central Standard Time, dwight(at)openweave.org writes: > What am I missing that > will make me sorry I painted now rather than later? >>> Cover stuff already painted with plastic, poster board, masking tape etc. - just be sure to use the low-stick masking tape and test on newly painted surfaces to make sure it won't pull the paint off when removed... Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Tool kits
In a message dated 11/1/05 10:36:27 AM Central Standard Time, Gerns25(at)netscape.net writes: > Can someone who has built an RV take a look at the complete list of tools > on www.planetools.com for me and tell me what they think from experience? > Thanks for the help. >>>> The $2K set looks pretty darn complete, and quite a bargain (without researching the whole shebang). Add an Avery swivel flush rivet set, lots of different files, some long #40 & #30 drill bits, and you should pretty much have all you need- sure I missed some stuff, but the stuff I added above are essential, IMHO! Might also wanna look at: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/?q=tools Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: hot cylinder cure
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Bob, How did you affix the washer. It wasn't clear to me looking at the pix. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: hot cylinder cure >Some cylinders run hot simply because the baffles are too tight in the >wrong areas. Specifically the front face of the #2 and the rear face of >the #5 cylinder (540 Lycs) or #3 (4 cylinder Lycs) don't get enough >airflow past the baffles. It's easy to fix with a few washers. > >Vince I tried this suggestion and it worked great! All CHTs are within 2 degrees. It took one washer on the number 3 cylinder. Thanks Vince Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: hot cylinder cure
>How did you affix the washer. It wasn't clear to me looking at the pix. > >Pax, > >Ed Holyoke > > >Some cylinders run hot simply because the baffles are too tight in the > >wrong areas. Specifically the front face of the #2 and the rear face >of > >the #5 cylinder (540 Lycs) or #3 (4 cylinder Lycs) don't get enough > >airflow past the baffles. It's easy to fix with a few washers. > > > >Vince > >I tried this suggestion and it worked great! All CHTs are within 2 >degrees. It took one washer on the number 3 cylinder. > >Thanks Vince > >Bob >RV6 NightFighter Good question, it is pretty well near impossible to get a washer between the baffle and the engine. I tried and tried. Solution, make a washer out of 1/2 x 1/4 inch sheet aluminum, dill hole for bolt at the top of the strip and then you have a nice fingerhold to put the spacer between the baffle and engine. Bottom line, I changed the washer to a spacer only because it was easier to do, but not as elegant. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Subject: hot cylinder cure
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
The easy way to get a spacer is to use the silicone baffle seal material, cut small strips and use a dab of high temp RTV to glue it in place. Usually takes 2 thicknesses of the silicone baffle seal. Bob said: > Good question, it is pretty well near impossible to get a washer between > the baffle and the engine. I tried and tried. Solution, make a washer > out > of 1/2 x 1/4 inch sheet aluminum, dill hole for bolt at the top of the > strip and then you have a nice fingerhold to put the spacer between the > baffle and engine. > > Bottom line, I changed the washer to a spacer only because it was easier > to > do, but not as elegant. > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: hot cylinder cure
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Bob, It looks, in the pix, that the washer/spacer is to be inserted between the fins and the baffle. Is there a bolt hole there? I'm perplexed. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: RE: RV-List: hot cylinder cure >How did you affix the washer. It wasn't clear to me looking at the pix. > >Pax, > >Ed Holyoke > > >Some cylinders run hot simply because the baffles are too tight in the > >wrong areas. Specifically the front face of the #2 and the rear face >of > >the #5 cylinder (540 Lycs) or #3 (4 cylinder Lycs) don't get enough > >airflow past the baffles. It's easy to fix with a few washers. > > > >Vince > >I tried this suggestion and it worked great! All CHTs are within 2 >degrees. It took one washer on the number 3 cylinder. > >Thanks Vince > >Bob >RV6 NightFighter Good question, it is pretty well near impossible to get a washer between the baffle and the engine. I tried and tried. Solution, make a washer out of 1/2 x 1/4 inch sheet aluminum, dill hole for bolt at the top of the strip and then you have a nice fingerhold to put the spacer between the baffle and engine. Bottom line, I changed the washer to a spacer only because it was easier to do, but not as elegant. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Inman" <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: 90% Inlet fitting on fuel inj
Date: Nov 01, 2005
I have a precision airmotive fuel inj. on a RV8 with O360 engine. and Van's exhaust which crossovers in the back I need a 90 degree inlet fitting for the servo to prevent the fuel line coming too close to the exhaust. Does anyone supply one? George Inman Home 204 287 8334 Cell 204 799 7062 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Best canopy scratch removal system
Date: Nov 01, 2005
1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO Confess, who's recently tried different canopy scratch removal systems and found one they recommend the most? thx, lucky Confess, who's recently tried different canopy scratch removal systems and found one they recommend the most? thx, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Question - Sennheiser HMEC300
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: "Bordelon, Greg" <gbordelon(at)hess.com>
Anyone have an negative comments about the Sennheiser HMEC300 ANR headsets or getting them serviced? Feel free to reply off list. Thank - Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Camlocs instead of hinges for the cowl?
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Hi All, With 300+ hours on my -4, I have broken a number of hinge eyelets and expect to find more as I accumulate more hours. I have found in the archives several references to "upgrading" to Camlocs such as are available from Skybolt. I have two questions: For those using Camlocs, how has this solution stood up to vibration, wear and tear, etc? For those who have installed Camlocs on a -4, did the curvature of the cowl in the area of the cheeks cause any problems with installation of the plate used to carry the Camloc receptacles? Thanks in advance. Dean Pichon ________________________________________________________________________________
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
Subject: Re: Question - Sennheiser HMEC300
Date: Nov 02, 2005
On Tuesday 01 November 2005 23.44, Bordelon, Greg wrote: > Anyone have an negative comments about the Sennheiser HMEC300 ANR > headsets or getting them serviced? Feel free to reply off list. I use a set, and like it very much, especially when flying the very noisy Skybolt. It's good to change the foam earpads for gel-pads. If I should say one negative thing, it's that the battery pack is heavy, and it seems to consume more power than expected. I drain a set of NiMH batteries in something like 4 hours. _ /Bjorn. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Kugler" <donkugler(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Hartzell Hub Thru Bolt Torque
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Anyone out there know what torque Hartzell calls out for the bolts that hold the hub halves together, including the one ones that secure the backing plate? I'm referencing the C2YK compact hub like most of us use on our RVs? Thanks in advance, -Don RV-8 NJ Don Kugler donkugler(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Aircraft Technical Book Company" <winterland(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Question - Sennheiser HMEC300
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Sennheisers are good headsets. As good as Bose but about half the price. But, even still, our business has never done very well with pilots supplies so I am closing out our remaining headsets. I've got 2 in-the-box Sennheiser HMEC25-KAS headsets (their top of the line) for $520 each. That's dealer cost. Call if you want them. Andy Builder's Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Hartzell Hub Thru Bolt Torque
Date: Nov 01, 2005
On 1 Nov 2005, at 18:31, Don Kugler wrote: > > Anyone out there know what torque Hartzell calls out for the bolts > that hold > the hub halves together, including the one ones that secure the > backing > plate? I'm referencing the C2YK compact hub like most of us use on > our RVs? Don, Table 301 on page 307 of my Hartzell Prop Owner's Manual (page at revision 6, Sep/00) says 20-22 ft-lbs for the hub clamping bolts/ spinner mtg. buts. The diagrams shows those as the four bolts most outboard, right where the blade comes out of the hub. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 01, 2005
From: Bill Dube <william.p.dube(at)noaa.gov>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Tool kits
Gerns25(at)netscape.net wrote: > >I am going to be purchasing a tool kit in the next couple of days. > > I bought nearly all my tools on Ebay. I probably spent as much money as I would have on a new tool kit, but I have a LOT of tools and I had fun hunting bargains. Indeed, it takes some skill and you must be patient to get the best deals on Ebay. Once you get the hang of it, you can get some amazing deals. The very few brand new tools I bought on Ebay were probably the worst bargains. A lot of the brand new tools listed on Ebay are pretty crappy. You must be very careful buying new tools on Ebay. The real deals are on high quality name brand used tools. I like to buy used aircraft tools from ToolsEZ the best. Some choice buys on Ebay include: A CP-214 pneumatic squeezer (C style) for $69. A Rockwell 90 degree 1/4-28 air drill for $39. A CP-351 alligator squeezer with 9" deep jaws for $120. I bought 4 Semco sealant guns with a 2 ft x 2 ft x 2 ft box filled with tubes, nozzles, spatulas, etc. for $60. (A sealant gun makes Pro-Seal much more bearable, almost fun.) The above tools would have cost me over $3000 new, but I paid just $228 for them. A few other gems from Ebay: 350 amp inverter TIG welder for $985 VOR/ILS with marker beacons - indicator, receiver, and connection cable for just $28. Hobbs meter for $2.52. Bill Dube' ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List Digest: 11 Msgs - 10/31/05
Date: Nov 01, 2005
Hey all- I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm concerned about having the tint for night flight. For those who have 'been there, done that', what are your observations / recommendations? Obviously, it will affect vision to some extent, but is it at all significant in the real world? Would you do it again? Thanks in advance- Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: hot cylinder cure
Date: Nov 01, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: hot cylinder cure > > Bob, > > It looks, in the pix, that the washer/spacer is to be inserted between > the fins and the baffle. Is there a bolt hole there? I'm perplexed. ((((((((((((Yes, there is a hole there that is made to hold a bolt that holds the baffle on the back of the cyl. You remove the bolt, insert a screw driver or something so a washer can be slipped in and then reinstall the bolt. It worked for me behind the #3 cylinder on my O-360. Some use two washers. One worked well enough for me. Indiana Larry))))))))))))) > > Pax, > > Ed Holyoke > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: hot cylinder cure > > >>How did you affix the washer. It wasn't clear to me looking at the pix. >> >>Pax, >> >>Ed Holyoke >> >> >Some cylinders run hot simply because the baffles are too tight in > the >> >wrong areas. Specifically the front face of the #2 and the rear face >>of >> >the #5 cylinder (540 Lycs) or #3 (4 cylinder Lycs) don't get enough >> >airflow past the baffles. It's easy to fix with a few washers. >> > >> >Vince >> >>I tried this suggestion and it worked great! All CHTs are within 2 >>degrees. It took one washer on the number 3 cylinder. >> >>Thanks Vince >> >>Bob >>RV6 NightFighter > > > Good question, it is pretty well near impossible to get a washer between > > the baffle and the engine. I tried and tried. Solution, make a washer > out > of 1/2 x 1/4 inch sheet aluminum, dill hole for bolt at the top of the > strip and then you have a nice fingerhold to put the spacer between the > baffle and engine. > > Bottom line, I changed the washer to a spacer only because it was easier > to > do, but not as elegant. > > Bob > RV6 NightFighter > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Question - Sennheiser HMEC300
Date: Nov 01, 2005
I have two sets in my -4. They are wired into the ship's electrical system so no batteries to fuss with. Both work well, especially after I adjusted the mic gains independently for each headset. In a tandem aircraft the voice activated mics need to go hot at different ambient noise levels. I have not had need to get them serviced, but have received excellent technical help from the Connecticut facility (Sennheiser USA). My only complaint is that the foam mic covers fall off easily. ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bordelon, Greg" <gbordelon(at)hess.com> Subject: RV-List: Question - Sennheiser HMEC300 Date: Tue, 1 Nov 2005 16:44:16 -0600 Anyone have an negative comments about the Sennheiser HMEC300 ANR headsets or getting them serviced? Feel free to reply off list. Thank - Greg ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Best canopy scratch removal system
Scratch -off is by far the best. Van's had a write-up on it in the RVator last year and they liked it too, so much they started carrying it. It uses different grades of abrasive pastes, and foam pads chucked up in a drill. Much better than sandpaper and elbow grease ala Micro-mesh. http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1130916615-200-759&browse=airframe&product=scratch-off Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Camlocs instead of hinges for the cowl?
My Camlocks have held up very well on my -6 cowl, and I highly recommend them. Can't answer as to the cowl cheeks, but it doesn't look like it should be a problem. http://home.mindspring.com/~rv6/RV6site/camlocks.htm Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: William Scaringe <bscaringe(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Orndorff Construction Videos For Sale
I am selling some Orndorff Construction Videos on eBay (link below). These are VHS format in excellent condition: Sheet Metal Tools (1 VHS Tape): An introduction to the tools needed to build an aluminum airplane. Tools are explained and then used to demonstrate the construction of a sample control surface. (60 minutes) RV Prepunched Empennage (2 VHS Tapes): Step by step construction of the complete RV6/6A, RV7/7A and RV8/8A empennage with prepunched skins. (3 hours) Search for eBay item# 8011498890 or use the link below: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=8011498890 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: hot cylinder cure
> > >Are you guys talking about the side baffle plate that screws to the >cylinder? It looks, in the pix, that the washer/spacer is to be inserted between the fins and the baffle. Is there a bolt hole there? I'm perplexed I am talking about the back baffle behind the number 3 cylinder. There is a bolt hole back there that allows one to attach the back baffle to the engine cylinder. If the back baffle is too tight, then not enough cooling air will flow down through the cylinder fins. Dan Checkoway has a real neat picture on his website about this. This is his idea, I just tried it and it worked for me. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: hot cylinder cure
I must make a correction to my previous email. The picture is not on Dan Checkoway's web site but it is on Vince's, see URL below. His web site explains the procedure very well. Bob RV6 Nightfighter >This has been discussed before... but now there's a photo and some text >to make it easier to understand. >http://vincesrocket.com/Engine%20and%20Prop.htm > >Vince ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Wing Tip Comm Antennas
Date: Nov 02, 2005
I'm installing the Bob Archer Comm antenna in wing tip of RV7A. I have searched the archives but remain with a couple questions: 1. I also have a marker beacon antenna in this wing tip. Will these antennas interfere with each other? 2. The instructions for the comm antenna indicate the position as vertically in the top of the vertical stab. Do RV guys typically install these antenna horizontally in the wing tip or try and make the antenna at least partically vertical by installing it on the very outside of the wingtip? This is my second comm so I'd not as concerned about great reception. Thanks BobR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Brake Reservoir
Date: Nov 02, 2005
I have seen some builders use small brake reservoirs attached directly to the master cylinders. Links: http://www.romeolima.com/RV8//Pictures/Mvc-565x.jpg http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/lgpages/reservoirs.php Question: The reservoir is no longer the high point in the brake system. How well will these work? When bleeding the system, the high part of the black brake lines may not be full of brake fluid. Anyone have practicle experience doing this? I'd love to eliminate all those leaking plastic lines like I had in my last aircraft. BobR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Hartzell Hub Thru Bolt Torque
check prop manual it's in there. Think it's 22 ft lbs. Dick At 06:31 PM 11/1/2005, you wrote: > >Anyone out there know what torque Hartzell calls out for the bolts that hold >the hub halves together, including the one ones that secure the backing >plate? I'm referencing the C2YK compact hub like most of us use on our RVs? > >Thanks in advance, > >-Don >RV-8 NJ > >Don Kugler >donkugler(at)earthlink.net > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: In search of: custom cargo net
Date: Nov 02, 2005
I'm looking for elastic mesh cargo netting, preferably in a CUSTOM size. Something like this: http://images.rvproject.com/images/elastic_net.jpg but customized to my preferred dimensions. Anybody know where to get this stuff? How to make it yourself? I basically want to make elastic pouches that go in front of the spar on my RV-7. Ideally the sides and bottom will be fixed with velcro, but the top "opening" will be elastic. Something like that... Any ideas? )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Subject: Re: Camlocs instead of hinges for the cowl?
From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
On 11/1/05 4:56 PM, "Dean Pichon" wrote: > > Hi All, > > With 300+ hours on my -4, I have broken a number of hinge eyelets and expect > to find more as I accumulate more hours. I have found in the archives > several references to "upgrading" to Camlocs such as are available from > Skybolt. I have two questions: > > For those using Camlocs, how has this solution stood up to vibration, wear > and tear, etc? > > For those who have installed Camlocs on a -4, did the curvature of the cowl > in the area of the cheeks cause any problems with installation of the plate > used to carry the Camloc receptacles? > > Thanks in advance. > Dean: I have Camlocs installed on my RV-4. They are the "small" ones and look very nice. 250 hours so far and no issues whatsoever. The only downside is the use of Camlocs on the upper cowl/firewall junction directing in front of the canopy. The curvature here is rather steep and results in some shallow "scalloping" but not too bad. I'd be glad to send you some photos of how I did it. Just let me know. Doug Weiler N722DW, RV-4 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Wing Tip Comm Antennas
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Bob, 1. The marker beacon goes in the other wingtip with the nav antenna (if installed). Call Bob Archer for advice. 2. Get as much vertical orientation as you can. I posted some pix of my installation here: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bicyclop@pacbell.net.09.03.2005/ Not flying yet so I can't say how well it'll work. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob rundle Subject: RV-List: Wing Tip Comm Antennas I'm installing the Bob Archer Comm antenna in wing tip of RV7A. I have searched the archives but remain with a couple questions: 1. I also have a marker beacon antenna in this wing tip. Will these antennas interfere with each other? 2. The instructions for the comm antenna indicate the position as vertically in the top of the vertical stab. Do RV guys typically install these antenna horizontally in the wing tip or try and make the antenna at least partically vertical by installing it on the very outside of the wingtip? This is my second comm so I'd not as concerned about great reception. Thanks BobR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Reservoir
I have these reservoirs on the pilot side master cylinders (no brakes on pax side) and they work great. No problems bleeding the brakes (from the bottom up) and no air seems to be trapped in the system. I recently noticed a very slight "spongieness" on the left side, and re-bled this side, which restored the brake feel. This was after 1 1/2 years and 250 hours. As for the parking brake, I have a Matco parking brake installed in the system. The installation is no different than if you were using the Vans brake reservoir. It also works great, but I have never had to use it! I'm thinking of yanking the whole thing out. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Brake Reservoir
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Jeff, The reservoirs are about 1 1/4" in diameter, right? Did you have any trouble with them clearing each other as the pedals pass? Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Point Subject: Re: RV-List: Brake Reservoir I have these reservoirs on the pilot side master cylinders (no brakes on pax side) and they work great. No problems bleeding the brakes (from the bottom up) and no air seems to be trapped in the system. I recently noticed a very slight "spongieness" on the left side, and re-bled this side, which restored the brake feel. This was after 1 1/2 years and 250 hours. As for the parking brake, I have a Matco parking brake installed in the system. The installation is no different than if you were using the Vans brake reservoir. It also works great, but I have never had to use it! I'm thinking of yanking the whole thing out. Jeff Point RV-6 Milwaukee > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Bruno <rv4(at)videotron.ca>
Subject: OIL COOLER FITTINGS
Hello All I need to bypass my Oil Cooler (My engine is running too cold "120') and I was wondering if anyone would know the size of AN fittings required for a Steward Warner Oil Cooler so I can install these blue caps ( can't remember how they're called )? This will save me a trip to the hangar (about 40 miles return.) I tried blocking the airflow thru the cooler with a back plate and even tough it help a little bit, it's still not enough. I have continual foaming in the filler neck telling me the engine is not burning the excess humidity/water in the oil and it will eventually hurt the engine. If anyone has a better idea, I'm open to suggestions. The engine is a 0-320 E2D (160 HP) Thank you for your time You may respond off list if you wish Bruno Dionne RV-4 C-GDBH Rv4(at)videotron.ca ------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)AOL.COM
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Subject: Re: OIL COOLER FITTINGS
In a message dated 11/2/05 1:50:02 PM Central Standard Time, rv4(at)videotron.ca writes: > .) > > > I tried blocking the airflow thru the cooler with a back plate and even > tough it help a little bit, it's still not enough. >>> Bruno- before you start disconnecting stuff, it sounds like you blocked the REAR of the cooler- you might want to try blocking the FRONT of the cooler- Many builders over the years have complained of little improvement by trying to block the airflow THROUGH the cooler from the rear. I suspect there is a lot of air circulation around the fins/tubes in flight that is still removing quite a bit of heat from them. A butterfly valve on my stock E3D blocks the front and it works well to raise temps. See: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5001 The butterfly closes off the airflow very well, but I'd suspect a simple plate covering the INLET face of the cooler would achieve the same thing. Might be worth a try... Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JohnR" <rv7(at)agfp.com>
Subject: Re: Thoughts on Tool kitsThoughts on Tool kits
Date: Nov 02, 2005
I did not buy my tools set from Cleveland and wish I would have. I bought a set of their tank dies and after using them replaced my other dies with theirs. Seemed to be a night and day difference. The other positive is that if you order from them and are in MO you will get things very quickly. I placed my last order after 4:00 PM and had it the next morning. (I'm in Iowa) I also have a DRDT-2 and really like it. We purchased the head and built the C-Frame portion ourselves. Didn't save a lot, if doing it again I would just buy the entire unit. JohnR RV-7A Empennage under way Wing kit inventoried - Hey, it's a start! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com>
Subject: rudder balance
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Hi Listers, I've just been working with my rudder tips and decided to do a preliminary balance of the rudder. It seems as if I would have to add about 4.5 pounds of lead to the counterbalance horn in addition to what was supplied with the kit. I just doesn't seem right to me. The rod ends have been measured and are correct. To check it, I put some long screws in the edge of my work bench and hung the rudder on top of the screws with rods that went through the rod ends. Any ideas? Is this normal? Thanks, Paul RV8QB Wings finished, empennage finished, almost. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Trevor" <davist(at)xsinet.co.za>
Subject: Electric vrs. manual trim
Date: Nov 03, 2005
I modified Vans manual trim on my -6 to operate fore/aft, as I didn't like the idea of turning the wheel left to right for a pitch trim! Trim adjustment should be fore and aft. First I straightened the routing of the cable thro the stabiliser and then looped the cable in a big "barrel roll" inside the aft fuselage (to shorten the cable), and ended with the cable going from the left side of the fuselage, crossing amidships and ending with the turning knob between the seats. This allowed the correct fore/aft orientation of the trim knob. I made a bracket fastened to the seat pans to hold the cable and cut a slot under the left seat pan to allow the cable to rout under the floor (just behind the wing spar) The overlap of the seat cushions hides the cable. This setup works extreemly well for me and it seems to take the "jerkiness" out of the system. With the manual aileron trim fitted one has the two trims nicely coupled together. Can supply pics if anyone is interested. Trevor Davis RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Brake Reservoir
I moved some of the washers around on the pedals to move each pedal as close to the outside as it can get. With this seteup, they miss each other by about 1/4 inch, which sin't a lot, but is sufficient. Jeff Ed Holyoke wrote: > >Jeff, > >The reservoirs are about 1 1/4" in diameter, right? Did you have any >trouble with them clearing each other as the pedals pass? > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: rudder balance
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Is the rudder 100% counterbalanced, or just partially? On the -3, -4, and -6's, there was no counterbalance on the rudder... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> Subject: RV-List: rudder balance > > Hi Listers, > > I've just been working with my rudder tips and decided to do a preliminary > balance of the rudder. It seems as if I would have to add about 4.5 > pounds > of lead to the counterbalance horn in addition to what was supplied with > the > kit. I just doesn't seem right to me. The rod ends have been measured and > are correct. To check it, I put some long screws in the edge of my work > bench and hung the rudder on top of the screws with rods that went through > the rod ends. Any ideas? Is this normal? > > Thanks, > Paul > RV8QB > Wings finished, empennage finished, almost. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: rudder balance
Date: Nov 02, 2005
The RV-8 rudder is only partially counterbalanced by design. Van's analysis and testing has shown that the rudder balance, as designed, is adequate to prevent flutter in the recommended flight envelope. Harmon Rockets use the RV-4 VS and non-balanced rudder, and they fly without flutter at much higher speeds than anyone sane would be at in their RV. Bolt on the supplied balance weight and find something else to worry about :) Kevin Horton On 2 Nov 2005, at 18:46, Kyle Boatright wrote: > > > Is the rudder 100% counterbalanced, or just partially? On the -3, -4, > and -6's, there was no counterbalance on the rudder... > > KB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: rudder balance > > >> >> Hi Listers, >> >> I've just been working with my rudder tips and decided to do a >> preliminary >> balance of the rudder. It seems as if I would have to add about 4.5 >> pounds >> of lead to the counterbalance horn in addition to what was >> supplied with >> the >> kit. I just doesn't seem right to me. The rod ends have been >> measured and >> are correct. To check it, I put some long screws in the edge of >> my work >> bench and hung the rudder on top of the screws with rods that went >> through >> the rod ends. Any ideas? Is this normal? >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> RV8QB >> Wings finished, empennage finished, almost. >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 02, 2005
From: Bud Newhall <RV-6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Hanger space needed a SNA
A friend is looking for hanger space for a RV-6 at SNA IF you know of some room available email me off list. Thanks Bud Newhall RV-6(at)comcast.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: OIL COOLER FITTINGS
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Blocking the front side of the cooler is more effective. I used adhesive AL tape last year. It's about time to put it back on again... - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Bruno [mailto:rv4(at)videotron.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:51 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: OIL COOLER FITTINGS > > > Hello All > > I need to bypass my Oil Cooler (My engine is > running too cold > "120') and I was wondering if anyone would know the size of > AN fittings required for a Steward Warner Oil Cooler so I can > install these blue caps ( can't remember how they're called > )? This will save me a trip to the hangar (about 40 miles return.) > > > I tried blocking the airflow thru the cooler with a back > plate and even tough it help a little bit, it's still not > enough. I have continual foaming in the filler neck telling > me the engine is not burning the excess humidity/water in the > oil and it will eventually hurt the engine. > > > If anyone has a better idea, I'm open to suggestions. > > > The engine is a 0-320 E2D (160 HP) > > > Thank you for your time > > > You may respond off list if you wish > > > Bruno Dionne > > RV-4 C-GDBH > > Rv4(at)videotron.ca > > > ------- > > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: James Freeman <flyeyes(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: OIL COOLER FITTINGS
Date: Nov 02, 2005
> > Blocking the front side of the cooler is more effective. I used > adhesive AL > tape last year. It's about time to put it back on again... > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bruno [mailto:rv4(at)videotron.ca] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:51 PM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: OIL COOLER FITTINGS >> >> >> Hello All >> >> I need to bypass my Oil Cooler (My engine is >> running too cold (snip) the points above are well taken about blocking the front of the cooler, but is it possible that you have a defective vernatherm? My understanding is that there should be very little flow of oil through the cooler if the temp is below the vernatherm setting. James Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com>
Subject: OIL COOLER FITTINGS
Date: Nov 02, 2005
I believe the minimum flow through the oil cooler is about 20% for safety reasons. Therefore, you are getting significant cooling from the radiator, even in the dead of winter. Thus the need to block the front side of the radiator during cooler weather. Pat Hatch RV-6 RV-7 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James Freeman Subject: Re: RV-List: OIL COOLER FITTINGS > > Blocking the front side of the cooler is more effective. I used > adhesive AL > tape last year. It's about time to put it back on again... > > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Bruno [mailto:rv4(at)videotron.ca] >> Sent: Wednesday, November 02, 2005 2:51 PM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: RV-List: OIL COOLER FITTINGS >> >> >> Hello All >> >> I need to bypass my Oil Cooler (My engine is >> running too cold (snip) the points above are well taken about blocking the front of the cooler, but is it possible that you have a defective vernatherm? My understanding is that there should be very little flow of oil through the cooler if the temp is below the vernatherm setting. James Freeman ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: rudder balance
Date: Nov 02, 2005
I would call Vans. Shemp ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: rudder balance > > Is the rudder 100% counterbalanced, or just partially? On the -3, -4, > and -6's, there was no counterbalance on the rudder... > > KB > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: rudder balance > > >> >> Hi Listers, >> >> I've just been working with my rudder tips and decided to do a >> preliminary >> balance of the rudder. It seems as if I would have to add about 4.5 >> pounds >> of lead to the counterbalance horn in addition to what was supplied with >> the >> kit. I just doesn't seem right to me. The rod ends have been measured >> and >> are correct. To check it, I put some long screws in the edge of my work >> bench and hung the rudder on top of the screws with rods that went >> through >> the rod ends. Any ideas? Is this normal? >> >> Thanks, >> Paul >> RV8QB >> Wings finished, empennage finished, almost. >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dave" <dford(at)michweb.net>
Subject: hot cylinder #2
Date: Nov 03, 2005
>Some cylinders run hot simply because the baffles are too tight in the >wrong areas. Specifically the front face of the #2 and the rear face of >the #5 cylinder (540 Lycs) or #3 (4 cylinder Lycs) don't get enough >airflow past the baffles. It's easy to fix with a few washers. > >Vince My hottest cylinder is no. 2 and am wondering how you are adjusting the front face of 2 to lower temp? Are you talking about the lower front curved aluminum piece held with wire to #4? Dave Ford RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Rhea" <rv6larry(at)msn.com>
Subject: telephone number?
Date: Nov 02, 2005
Bill Kaiser. Please give me another call .I lost your phone #. Larry Rhea rv6larry(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: rudder balance
You don't have to balance the rudder like you do the elevators. Bolt on the weight they give you and go fly. Godspeed, Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas RV-7 N727WB - Phase I http://www.myrv7.com Paul Rice wrote: > >Hi Listers, > >I've just been working with my rudder tips and decided to do a preliminary >balance of the rudder. It seems as if I would have to add about 4.5 pounds >of lead to the counterbalance horn in addition to what was supplied with the >kit. I just doesn't seem right to me. The rod ends have been measured and >are correct. To check it, I put some long screws in the edge of my work >bench and hung the rudder on top of the screws with rods that went through >the rod ends. Any ideas? Is this normal? > >Thanks, >Paul >RV8QB >Wings finished, empennage finished, almost. > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: rudder balance
>I don't understand this. All moveable surfaces are subject to flutter, >no matter what plane (no, not airplane) they're mounted in. Well, the >flaps move but are technically 'rigid' so we'll discount the flaps. >Since I'm not building .... yet, I don't have any info to peruse ..... >but I'd expect the rudder to have balance requirements like the >elevators. What am I missing other than "that's the way Van designed it"??? It is an anathema for a designer to add or design extra stuff that is not needed. In this case it adds weight, and complexity. Van designs the aircraft to be light, if you want a heavy aircraft there are plenty of certified planes to choose from. I would expect rudder flutter at some speed, but if for argument that speed is 330kts, why counterbalance if Vne is 182kts. For the RV6 I would assume that the flutter speed is well beyond the Vne speed. I once asked the engineers at Van about the elevator counterbalance, and I was told that the counterbalance structure was designed/required to withstand 25Gs. Wow!! I am not saying that I have it all right, but...there is more to this than just a simple answer. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: "Robert E. Newhall II" <renewhall2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wing Tip Comm Antennas
Bob, I wasn't very satisfied with the reception of that comm antenna. I had mine installed in my right wingtip pretty much flat with the bottom of the wingtip. Maybe the problem was that it was horizontal but my exerience was that I could only pick up ATIS within 10nm of my airport and I had trouble hearing several control towers (KCYS & KCOS) even within 5nm of the airport. I noticed if I banked the plane the signal would come in and out. After a year of flying, I replaced my wingtip antenna with a bottom-mounted comm antenna from Spruce and it has at least 10x more range. The wingtip antenna is a waste of time in my limited experience with it. Maybe you can get better results if you angle it to give more vertical orientation but you still don't have much of a ground plane out there on the end of the wing and the antenna is always blocked by the fuselage for half of its view. Bob Newhall Boulder, CO RV7, 165hrs Subject: RE: Wing Tip Comm Antennas From: Ed Holyoke (bicyclop(at)pacbell.net) Date: Wed Nov 02 - 8:00 AM Bob, 1. The marker beacon goes in the other wingtip with the nav antenna (if installed). Call Bob Archer for advice. 2. Get as much vertical orientation as you can. I posted some pix of my installation here: http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/bicyclop@pacbell.net.09.03.2005/ Not flying yet so I can't say how well it'll work. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bob rundle Subject: Wing Tip Comm Antennas I'm installing the Bob Archer Comm antenna in wing tip of RV7A. I have searched the archives but remain with a couple questions: 1. I also have a marker beacon antenna in this wing tip. Will these antennas interfere with each other? 2. The instructions for the comm antenna indicate the position as vertically in the top of the vertical stab. Do RV guys typically install these antenna horizontally in the wing tip or try and make the antenna at least partically vertical by installing it on the very outside of the wingtip? This is my second comm so I'd not as concerned about great reception. Thanks BobR __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Wing spar main Bolt nut size
Date: Nov 03, 2005
1.53 RCVD_NUMERIC_HELO Received: contains an IP address used for HELO I have an RV8 kit, builder number 81458. Yesterday I discovered that 7 of the 8 nuts for the NAS1307-50 main spar bolts required an 11/16 socket and one took a 5/8 socket. The bolt heads themselves also took an 11/16 socket. Tom Green of Van's said they never stocked a nut that size and they always used 5/8 nut dimensions there. Since those nuts came out of their parts bag and otherwise looked identical right down to the same nut height and nylon color insert it is easy to see how a mixup somewhere could have happened. But Tom said he's never heard of this before, ever. So I'm wondering if I'm really the only one this happened to. Any other confessions from anyone this week? Anyone else notice this along the way? I wonder if their supplier just made a boo boo. Seems to me that the slightly larger size nut, all other things equal, would be "better". It's the only place I can remember where the nut dimension would be different than the bolt head dimension. Seems wierd to do that by design on the main spar bolts. lucky thx, lucky I have an RV8 kit, builder number 81458. Yesterday I discovered that 7 of the 8 nuts for theNAS1307-50 main sparbolts required an 11/16 socket and one took a 5/8 socket. The bolt heads themselves also took an 11/16 socket.Tom Green of Van's said they never stocked a nut that size and they always used 5/8 nut dimensions there. Since those nuts came out of their parts bag and otherwise looked identical right down to the same nut height and nylon color insert it is easy to see how a mixup somewhere could have happened. But Tom said he's never heard of this before, ever. So I'm wondering if I'm really the only one this happened to. Any other confessions from anyone this week? Anyone else notice this along the way? I wonder if their supplier just made a boo boo. Seems to me that the slightly larger size nut, all other things equal, would be "better". It's the only place I can remember where the nut dimension would be different than the bolt head dimension. Seems wierd to do that by design on the main spar bolts. lucky thx, lucky ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com
Subject: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Fellow builders, How are you handling the aft side of the bolt that attaches the nosegear leg to the engine mount as it contacts the firewall? It looks like it will fit without cutting a hole and putting in a plug - but it will be touching the firewall and placing some force against it. If you've cut a hole and put in a plug - please provide details - hole size - where you got the plug, how it's sealed, etc.... Thanks, Ralph Capen RV6AQB N822AR N06 - Firewall forward. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Garrett" <rgarrett(at)objectsciences.com>
Subject: voltage regulator?
Date: Nov 03, 2005
A set of 3 interrelated questions ... I have a RV-6A with about 600 hours of flying time ... In the last few weeks, I've noticed that the voltage drops to battery level for several minutes, then goes back up to charging voltage. It's quite intermittent. 1. I'm thinking a failing voltage regulator is a reasonable suspect? Now that I'm writing this, I realize I should also re-check all the cables and their fittings to make sure there's not some loose connection. 2. If you agree with #1, then I have Van's adjustable voltage regulator and the Odyssey battery. Would it be just as well to buy the fixed voltage regulator? When I bought the adjustable regulator, I hadn't realized how exciting it would be to adjust the voltage, unless there is some way to do so (that I haven't thought of) without the engine running. 3. Assuming the fixed voltage regulator works fine w/ the Odyssey battery, does it have the same bolt pattern as the adjustable regulator? Since this is a replacement, it would be great to use the same bolt holes. Thanks for your help! Randy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: TruTrak with Navaid Servo
Date: Nov 03, 2005
Is anybody out there in list land using a TruTrak autopilot head with a Navaid servo? Not really happy with the Navaid, thinking about upgrading, and the Digitrak is cheaper than the EZ Pilot. Just wondering if anybody has tried this combo and how it works. Pax, Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: rudder balance
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
-snip- >>>I don't understand this. All moveable surfaces are subject to flutter, >>>no matter what plane (no, not airplane) they're mounted in. -snip- Actually it is the whole structure that is subject to flutter. Flutter can happen even if there are no moveable surfaces, but moveable surfaces add complexity to an already complex phenomenon. Flutter happens because the aircraft structure is flexible and under the 'right' (or 'wrong' depending on your point of view :-) conditions, the aerodynamic forces are in resonance with a natural frequency of the structure, in bending or torsion, or more often some combination. This frequency dependency is one of the reasons why TAS is important, not IAS. Balancing movable controls helps them not create or add loads which could start or accentuate flutter. The 'excitement' that rudders can provide is different than that for elevators and ailerons, so the balance requirements are different as well. Some structures are stiff enough for the airspeeds being flown that balancing the controls isn't necessary. Accurately predicting flutter is really tough, even with high tech, high $$ analytical tools. Flight testing is the ultimate answer. Van's has done the testing, so if you build and balance per their specs, and stay below their published redline speed for your particular aircraft, you should be OK (it says so in the fine print somewhere I'm sure :-) Dennis Glaeser RV7A Wings (Aerospace Engineer) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com>
Subject: Re: OIL COOLER FITTINGS
Date: Nov 03, 2005
Try covering the cooler fins with duct tape...just to determine if that is really the problem. If the temp goes up, remove tape until the range you like is reached. Then cover the same area with a plate which can be swung out of the way. Cheaper than fittings and infinently adjustable. Do not archive. Charlie Ennis ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: sportav8r(at)aol.com.1.0000.-4.4912
Subject: Re: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912 I'd vote to cut the hole now, while it's easy. I didn't, and have often wished I had. With my ancient FAB design, I have to drop the gear leg to access the air filter for cleaning, and wrestling that nut back on is about 80% of the whole dang job. -Stormy -----Original Message----- From: Ralph E. Capen <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Fellow builders, How are you handling the aft side of the bolt that attaches the nosegear leg to the engine mount as it contacts the firewall? It looks like it will fit without cutting a hole and putting in a plug - but it will be touching the firewall and placing some force against it. If you've cut a hole and put in a plug - please provide details - hole size - where you got the plug, how it's sealed, etc.... Thanks, Ralph Capen RV6AQB N822AR N06 - Firewall forward. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912 On 11/03 4:40, sportav8r(at)aol.com.1.0000.-4.4912 wrote: > > I'd vote to cut the hole now, while it's easy. I didn't, and have often wished I had. With my ancient FAB design, I have to drop the gear leg to access the air filter for cleaning, and wrestling that nut back on is about 80% of the whole dang job. The location on the plans to drill the hole are almost perfect so drill the "required" hole per plans. After the nosegear is mounted and bolted in (you did use an all metal nut, right?) [no nylock please] then get one of those stainless hole plugs from Home Depot and put it in with a good dab of pro-seal. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com Flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: rudder balance
Date: Nov 03, 2005
On 3 Nov 2005, at 16:20, Glaeser, Dennis A wrote: > > > -snip- > >>>> I don't understand this. All moveable surfaces are subject to >>>> > flutter, >>>no matter what plane (no, not airplane) they're mounted > in. > -snip- > > Actually it is the whole structure that is subject to flutter. > Flutter > can happen even if there are no moveable surfaces, but moveable > surfaces > add complexity to an already complex phenomenon. Flutter happens > because > the aircraft structure is flexible and under the 'right' (or 'wrong' > depending on your point of view :-) conditions, the aerodynamic forces > are in resonance with a natural frequency of the structure, in bending > or torsion, or more often some combination. This frequency dependency > is one of the reasons why TAS is important, not IAS. Balancing movable > controls helps them not create or add loads which could start or > accentuate flutter. The 'excitement' that rudders can provide is > different than that for elevators and ailerons, so the balance > requirements are different as well. Some structures are stiff enough > for the airspeeds being flown that balancing the controls isn't > necessary. > > Accurately predicting flutter is really tough, even with high tech, > high > $$ analytical tools. Flight testing is the ultimate answer. Van's has > done the testing, so if you build and balance per their specs, and > stay > below their published redline speed for your particular aircraft, you > should be OK (it says so in the fine print somewhere I'm sure :-) And the service history suggests that none of the RV designs has a flutter problem. There are thousands of RVs flying, and I have never heard of a flutter related accident or incident. You can bet that many RVs have been quite a bit above the recommended VNEs due to pilot screwups during aerobatic manoeuvres. I know of one RV-8 that has been accidentally flown at many tens of knots above the recommended VNE, due to a momentary pilot lapse. He had added additional balance weight to the ailerons (because he thought it was a good idea), but I believe the rudder balance weight was as designed by Van's. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912 On 11/03 5:21, Walter Tondu wrote: > all metal nut, right?) [no nylock please] then get one of those That should read all metal lock-nut. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com Flying! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912 In my situation, the bolt barely touched the firewall, distorting it slightly. Instead of cutting a clearance hole in the firewall per plans and then plugging it, I simply shaved of some of the threads off the bolt at roughly a 45 degree angle to just clear the firewall with the bolt threads facing it a specific orientation and still have adequate thread protrusion with the nut attached. A recent visual inspection confirmed that to date, the bolt has yet to make contact with the firewall and everything appears to be just fine. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 94 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: rv6fly <rv6fly(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Re: RE-OIL COOLER FITTING
Bruno wrote: >- >Mark, I like your setup but my oil cooler in mounted behind the # 4 cylinder >so I don't have the room. I might dismantle the baffles and try to set up >some kind of door that I can open at will. > > Bruno, I put an adjustable door in front of my oil cooler with a button lock control and it worked very well on my six. I would suggest some kind of spring so that if the door installation fails that it fails in the wide open mode. I started out with duct tape over the cooler. On several occasions, after I reached altititude, the temps were warmer and the oil temps started to go up. So, I'd land and remove the tape. That only happened twice before I replaced the "Red Green" method with the door and control. Bob Skinner (former RV builder) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2005
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Blast tubes and heat flange
A couple last baffle questions: Fitting and trimming are complete and I'm doing deburring and clean up on the parts but..... I still need to install alternator and mag blast tubes and heater air intake flange. Blast tubes.....is everybody using the little flexible plastic conduit Van's supplies in the FWF kit and just drilling a hole in the thin baffle metal small enough to capture the tube (no flange riveted to the baffle)? I've seen some neat little aluminum flanges that some folks have riveted to the baffle with a nice little rigid aluminum tube attachd to the back of the flange that directs the air onto the mags. Are these commercially available or does someone on the list sell them? I can't find them in A/C Spruce or Wicks. The aluminum (heater intake) scat tube flange that's fastened to the bottom of the left side intake baffle floor. I'm probably being anal but so be it.....Do you install this flange at the very front of the intake floor (that's where it looks like the instructions show to put it but the floor is very shallow there and since its so close to the cooling air intakes I wonder if the airflow into the heat duct scat tube would be at a very low pressure)? Would it be better (ie more airflow into the heater scat tube) if the scat tube flange were mounted higher up on the steeper bend of the baffle floor (it seems to me that the more vertical orientation of this flange at that point would force more air in to the system but don't know if there are any gotchas). Any suggestions? Thanks. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Lots of work in those baffles!!! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2005
From: G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: voltage regulator?
Randy Garrett wrote: >I have a RV-6A with about 600 hours of flying time ... > >In the last few weeks, I've noticed that the voltage drops to battery level >for several minutes, then goes back up to charging voltage. It's quite >intermittent. > > snip --- When I bought the adjustable regulator, I hadn't realized how >exciting it would be to adjust the voltage, unless there is some way to do >so (that I haven't thought of) without the engine running. > > > Hi Randy May be too late for you but this may help others. To adjust voltage with engine running, upper cowl removed and safety pilot in seat. The Vans adjustable regulator needs to be mounted on upper inside of the firewall. The adjustment screw is on the back side of the unit so when installing drill a small hole through firewall behind regulator adjust screw for a small adjustment screwdriver. The hole is covered with foil tape and labeled to show which direction to turn to increase/decrease voltage. George in Langley BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Any ideas for a heat diffuser on an old 6
Date: Nov 04, 2005
The cold is coming and Im tired of having my passenger's toes nice and toasty while Im freezing. Has anyone come up with an easy solution to mix the air exiting the firewall from one side? Im thinking of just riveting a thin piece of al and bending it to some angle. Not sure how effective it will be though. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: voltage regulator?
Date: Nov 04, 2005
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
I suggest you post this to the AeroElectric list. Some of those experts don't monitor all the lists... Dennis Glaeser RV7A Wings Date: Nov 04, 2005
From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: TruTrak with Navaid Servo
I use this setup in my rv6a and love the Digitrak. I do notice one quark though. When I first turn it on, it dips the right wing down and then levels it back to where it had been. Something I have to warn my passanger about as it is a little disorienting when it happens. Once the wings are level again it will follow the GPS 295 heading exactly as programed. I have also installed the alititude hold from Digitrak people. Makes for an easy cross country flight. I do not know if it is the combination of the Digitrak and the Navaid servo that causes this to dip the wing or whether this is something Digitrak just does. Dan DeNeal RV6a N256GD Ed Holyoke wrote: Is anybody out there in list land using a TruTrak autopilot head with a Navaid servo? Not really happy with the Navaid, thinking about upgrading, and the Digitrak is cheaper than the EZ Pilot. Just wondering if anybody has tried this combo and how it works. Pax, Ed ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2005
From: Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net> GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Subject: Re: Nosegear to engine mount attach bolt 6A INNOCENT
GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Ralph, relieve the firewall by tapping with a ballpeen hammer to get the clearance. It works. Dick RV6A comp. 2002 At 03:52 PM 11/3/2005, you wrote: > >Fellow builders, > >How are you handling the aft side of the bolt that attaches the nosegear >leg to the engine mount as it contacts the firewall? > >It looks like it will fit without cutting a hole and putting in a plug - >but it will be touching the firewall and placing some force against it. > >If you've cut a hole and put in a plug - please provide details - hole >size - where you got the plug, how it's sealed, etc.... > >Thanks, >Ralph Capen >RV6AQB N822AR N06 - Firewall forward. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <fairings4u(at)cox.net>
Subject: Looking for Bob Hoffman
Date: Nov 04, 2005
I hope someone out there can help me. I am looking for Bob Hoffman. Last known address I have on him is Lake City, FL in September. He received an order at the address, but since October all my correspondence to him has been returned. Does anyone have a phone number or address for him? To the best of my knowledge he is either building or flying an RV 6A Thanks. Bob Snedaker Fairings-Etc bob@fairings-etc 623 203 9795 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wing spar main Bolt nut size
Date: Nov 04, 2005
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Sounds like the supplier got a different p/n mixed in. I've gotten an occasional bolt, nut and nutplate with no threads. QC isn't perfect. Regards, Greg Young - Houston (DWH) RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A > > I have an RV8 kit, builder number 81458. Yesterday I > discovered that 7 of the 8 nuts for the NAS1307-50 main spar > bolts required an 11/16 socket and one took a 5/8 socket. > The bolt heads themselves also took an 11/16 socket. Tom > Green of Van's said they never stocked a nut that size and > they always used 5/8 nut dimensions there. Since those nuts > came out of their parts bag and otherwise looked identical > right down to the same nut height and nylon color insert it > is easy to see how a mixup somewhere could have happened. > > But Tom said he's never heard of this before, ever. So I'm > wondering if I'm really the only one this happened to. Any > other confessions from anyone this week? Anyone else notice > this along the way? I wonder if their supplier just made a boo boo. > > Seems to me that the slightly larger size nut, all other > things equal, would be "better". It's the only place I can > remember where the nut dimension would be different than the > bolt head dimension. Seems wierd to do that by design on the > main spar bolts. > > lucky > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: voltage regulator?
Date: Nov 04, 2005
Do not rule out the problem being a failing alternator. What type do you have?? Also: Check all major connections concerning alternator and engine grounding. I would think you could adjust the adjustable VR while the engine is off and then start it up to see what it does and repeat if necessary. Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- > A set of 3 interrelated questions ... > > I have a RV-6A with about 600 hours of flying time ... > > In the last few weeks, I've noticed that the voltage drops to > battery level > It's quite > intermittent. > > 1. I'm thinking a failing voltage regulator is a reasonable > suspect? Now > that I'm writing this, I realize I should also re-check all the > cables and > their fittings to make sure there's not some loose connection. > > 2. If you agree with #1, then I have Van's adjustable voltage > regulator and > the Odyssey battery. Would it be just as well to buy the fixed > voltage > regulator? When I bought the adjustable regulator, I hadn't > realized how > exciting it would be to adjust the voltage, unless there is some > way to do > so (that I haven't thought of) without the engine running. > > 3. Assuming the fixed voltage regulator works fine w/ the Odyssey > battery, > does it have the same bolt pattern as the adjustable regulator? > Since this > is a replacement, it would be great to use the same bolt holes. > > Thanks for your help! > > Randy > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oliver Washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: Fly-in
Date: Nov 04, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: Oliver Washburn Subject: Fly-in Sat, Nov 5th is Fall RV Fly-in at Love's Landing Airpark (97FL) in Central Florida for the best bar-b-que lunch in the Southeast. There will be coffee and donuts for the early birds. No program, just a good lunch and tall tales. Where-Love's Landing Airpark (97FL) 21nm SE of Ocala on 130* radial. N28*57.42 W081*53.29 When-Sat. Nov 5th , lunch at noon and coffee and donuts for early birds. Rain date Nov 6th. What- Bar-b que pork, hamburgers, hotdogs, baked beans, coleslaw and all the other fixins. Our Spring fly-in was rained out twice so hope for good weather and a large turnout for this one. "This is a private airpark so land at your own risk" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Finally fixed my 6A nose wheel shimmy
Recently I have been plagued by a persistent, unresolved nose gear shimmy in my RV-6A. I tried adjusting the breakout force (higher) and different nose tire pressures. Nothing helped. Then last Sunday I had a friend videotape me taxiing at the speed (18 knots) where the shimmy could be counted on. There was no oscillation in the horizontal plane consistent with shimmy. But there was an obvious Up/Down motion of the nose wheel assembly. This led to the checking of the balance and it was significantly out of balance. After balancing the nose wheel/tire I again taxied and there was no longer a vibration at/above 18 knots. However, there was another vibration above 23 knots. Not encouraging. I considered taking off the wheelpant to see if that was factor but was able to get someone to observe me taxiing at that speed. Lo and behold it was not the nosewheel but the left main. So I remove it and not only was it out of balance but out of round. It was an Air Hawk but perhaps something I did caused the out of round condition. I replaced both main tires and balanced them and this morning flew. No vibrations! Analysis/recommendations: I was incorrectly diagnosing the vibration of the nose wheel/tire as shimmy when it was out of balance. I incorrectly diagnosed a main wheel/tire vibration as nose wheel/tire shimmy/vibration. From now on I will balance every wheel/tire after changing the tire. The left tire had a weight on it but I am not sure that it was from the previous tire change. If I develop a vibration again my first step will be to have someone on the ground visually observe and/or videotape the wheels/tires to isolate the offender(s). Had I done that first I would have quickly resolved the problem without all the failed fix attempts. I went to three auto parts stores to find the lead weights with adhesive backing and none had them. I did get some from a motorcycle shop and from my normal tire store (Discount Tire - half the price of the motorcycle shop). Conclusion: Now my taxiing is vibration free and my greaser landings are no longer followed by vibration. Smooth landings and a smooth rollout is so sweet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Finally fixed my 6A nose wheel shimmy
My wheel/tire assemblies were balanced statically. My mechanic has a device that consists of a "frictionless" rod that goes through the axle area of the wheel (bearings and one spacer on but the spacer is as needed). That is then placed on a stand that had two thin metal plates that support the "frictionless" rod and wheel/tire assembly. You then move the wheel/tire to various positions and let go and if not in balance it is obvious because the heavy end will go down. Add 1/4 ounce lead weights opposite the heavy end until balanced. On at least one balancing it was not perfect but was so improved over not balancing that I did not worry about it. I would suppose that spin balancing would be better but this way eliminated my vibrations so I am happy. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: TruTrak with Navaid Servo
Date: Nov 05, 2005
Mine does the same with no digitrak. Ive found if you first go to wing leveler and get it trimmed out, then hold the stick at the very top when flipping over to track, the "bump" is much less severe. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dan DeNeal" <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak with Navaid Servo > > I use this setup in my rv6a and love the Digitrak. I do notice one quark > though. When I first turn it on, it dips the right wing down and then > levels it back to where it had been. Something I have to warn my passanger > about as it is a little disorienting when it happens. Once the wings are > level again it will follow the GPS 295 heading exactly as programed. I > have also installed the alititude hold from Digitrak people. Makes for an > easy cross country flight. > > I do not know if it is the combination of the Digitrak and the Navaid > servo that causes this to dip the wing or whether this is something > Digitrak just does. > > Dan DeNeal > RV6a N256GD > > Ed Holyoke wrote: > > > Is anybody out there in list land using a TruTrak autopilot head with a > Navaid servo? Not really happy with the Navaid, thinking about > upgrading, and the Digitrak is cheaper than the EZ Pilot. Just wondering > if anybody has tried this combo and how it works. > > Pax, > > Ed > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Fuel Injector Spider installation question
Date: Nov 05, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 I am installing my Airflow Performance fuel injection spider and had a question. Do I need to match location on the spider to a specific cylinder, or do I hook up any cylinder to any location in the spider? I could not seem to find any cylinder numbers on the spider and I directions leave much to be desired..... Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks -Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2005
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Fly-in
Hi Oliver and Lorene, Great field, great turn-out, great food, great company!!! --- Great WX!!! Thanks for a great fly-in. First timers, Richard and Ruth Dudley RV-6A N332RD Oliver Washburn wrote: > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Oliver Washburn >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Fly-in > > >Sat, Nov 5th is Fall RV Fly-in at Love's Landing Airpark (97FL) in Central Florida for the best bar-b-que lunch in the Southeast. There will be coffee and donuts for the early birds. No program, just a good lunch and tall tales. > >Where-Love's Landing Airpark (97FL) 21nm SE of Ocala on 130* radial. N28*57.42 W081*53.29 > >When-Sat. Nov 5th , lunch at noon and coffee and donuts for early birds. Rain date Nov 6th. > >What- Bar-b que pork, hamburgers, hotdogs, baked beans, coleslaw and all the other fixins. > > Our Spring fly-in was rained out twice so hope for good weather and a large turnout for this one. > "This is a private airpark so land at your own risk" > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: High Voltage Problem
Date: Nov 05, 2005
Today while doing some taxi test I noticed a new problem. After start-up, with the alternator field on or off, the voltage climbed very high to over 18 volts. I shut down the engine and restarted and watched again as the voltage slowly (1 Min.) rose to 18+ volts. This time I put a load on the system with pitot heat, landing lights and strobes and the voltage dropped and stayed at about 12.5. It appears that with a load, all looks normal but with no load it climbs even with the Alt. field off. The battery is an Odyssey and is about three years old ( I wanted it on hand during the building of the electrical system) and not holding a charge well. could this be the culprit? The Alternator is a 60 amp. from Van's. Could it be a regulator gone bad within it? I don't see how with the field switched off but electrons are a big mystery to me. Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO So very close to first flight! ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2005
From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: High Voltage Problem
version=3.0.3 Steve, I assume the lower voltage with load was at low RPM? If so, it sounds like the field is shorted to +12...could be a bad regulator, or bad wiring. A weak battery wouldn't act like that. John Steve Struyk wrote: > >Today while doing some taxi test I noticed a new problem. After start-up, with the alternator field on or off, the voltage climbed very high to over 18 volts. I shut down the engine and restarted and watched again as the voltage slowly (1 Min.) rose to 18+ volts. This time I put a load on the system with pitot heat, landing lights and strobes and the voltage dropped and stayed at about 12.5. It appears that with a load, all looks normal but with no load it climbs even with the Alt. field off. > >The battery is an Odyssey and is about three years old ( I wanted it on hand during the building of the electrical system) and not holding a charge well. could this be the culprit? > >The Alternator is a 60 amp. from Van's. Could it be a regulator gone bad within it? I don't see how with the field switched off but electrons are a big mystery to me. > >Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. > >Steve Struyk >RV-8, N842S >St. Charles, MO >So very close to first flight! > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: jdoody727(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: High Voltage Problem
Date: Nov 06, 2005
Dear Steve, Could very well be the voltage regulator. Do you have overvoltage protection installed? B&C sells a fairly inexpensive ( about $45) overvoltage unit. I wish it was installed when my regulator went. At least it's there now. John -------------- Original message -------------- > > Today while doing some taxi test I noticed a new problem. After start-up, with > the alternator field on or off, the voltage climbed very high to over 18 volts. > I shut down the engine and restarted and watched again as the voltage slowly (1 > Min.) rose to 18+ volts. This time I put a load on the system with pitot heat, > landing lights and strobes and the voltage dropped and stayed at about 12.5. It > appears that with a load, all looks normal but with no load it climbs even with > the Alt. field off. > > The battery is an Odyssey and is about three years old ( I wanted it on hand > during the building of the electrical system) and not holding a charge well. > could this be the culprit? > > The Alternator is a 60 amp. from Van's. Could it be a regulator gone bad within > it? I don't see how with the field switched off but electrons are a big mystery > to me. > > Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. > > Steve Struyk > RV-8, N842S > St. Charles, MO > So very close to first flight! > > > > > > Dear Steve, Could very well be the voltage regulator. Do you have overvoltage protection installed? BC sells a fairly inexpensive ( about $45) overvoltage unit. I wish it was installed when my regulator went. At least it's there now. John -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Steve Struyk" Today while doing some taxi test I noticed a new problem. After start-up, with the alternator field on or off, the voltage climbed very high to over 18 volts. I shut down the engine and restarted and watched again as the voltage slowly (1 Min.) rose to 18+ volts. This time I put a load on the system with pitot heat, landing lights and strobes and the voltage dropped and stayed at about 12.5. It appears that with a load, all looks normal but with no load it climbs even with the Alt. field off. The battery is an Odyssey and is about three years old ( I wanted it on hand during the building of the electrical system) and not holding a charge well. could thi s be the culprit? The Alternator is a 60 amp. from Van's. Could it be a regulator gone bad within it? I don't see how with the field switched off but electrons are a big mystery to me. Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO So very close to first flight! help.com! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: High Voltage Problem
Date: Nov 05, 2005
The Van's 60A alternators that I have seen, will not shut off with the "excite" switch. This is probably what you are wired to as an "alternator field" switch. Once you excite them while rotating, they stay on. This is also the alternator which was recommended to NOT have an OV protection module. Hope these inputs are helpful. If your Odyssey battery is not holding a charge, then you probably have something sucking amps out of it while at rest. Those things typically will hold charge for months with their low internal resistatnce. They will keep doing that for around 7 years of inactivity. If you have an accurate voltmeter, then your voltage regulation is bad. Check the voltmeter first. Good luck. Denis Walsh On Nov 5, 2005, at 4:33 PM, Steve Struyk wrote: > > Today while doing some taxi test I noticed a new problem. After > start-up, with the alternator field on or off, the voltage climbed > very high to over 18 volts. I shut down the engine and restarted > and watched again as the voltage slowly (1 Min.) rose to 18+ volts. > This time I put a load on the system with pitot heat, landing > lights and strobes and the voltage dropped and stayed at about > 12.5. It appears that with a load, all looks normal but with no > load it climbs even with the Alt. field off. > > The battery is an Odyssey and is about three years old ( I wanted > it on hand during the building of the electrical system) and not > holding a charge well. could this be the culprit? > > The Alternator is a 60 amp. from Van's. Could it be a regulator > gone bad within it? I don't see how with the field switched off but > electrons are a big mystery to me. > > Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated. > > Steve Struyk > RV-8, N842S > St. Charles, MO > So very close to first flight! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: RVer273sb(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2005
Subject: Re: Fuel Injector Spider installation question
It does not mater which cylinder is plumbed into any flow divider port. The only required hook up is the inlet from the throttle body. Airflow system, 1150 hrs. Rv4 Stewart ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: RE-OIL COOLER FITTING
Date: Nov 05, 2005
Not to insult, but do you have the proper part number washer under the vernatherm? If it wasn't present or was thinner than spec, too much oil would be directed to the cooler. You need proper dimension between the bottom of the vernatherm and the seat for oil to bypass the cooler, as intended. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bruno" <rv4(at)videotron.ca> Shemp Yes, I do have a vernatherm installed and I actually installed a new one this year, It help improved the oil temp but not enough. Today I installed a partial blocking plate (40%) in front of the cooler and it improved the temp by about 20 degrees. The average oil temp today was around 140-145 degrees at an outside temperature of 8-10 Celsius or about 45-50 F. Tomorrow, I am going to make another blocking plate that will cover 100% of the cooler inlet. Let's hope it's going to fix the problems. Thanks to all. Bruno RV-4 C-GDBH ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 05, 2005
From: "S Hamer" <s.hamer(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Jack Norris Propeller book version=3.0.3
John, Just as a point of reference, I gave Jack my $12.00 for his book at one of the Luscombe fly-ins at Columbia Ca. in either '95 or '96, not sure which year. It was worth the money just to listen to him talk about his career. The book will be a bonus if he ever finishes it. Steve Hamer Apple Valley ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Huft" <rv8(at)lazy8.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Jack Norris Propeller book version=3.0.3 > > Randy > > At Oshkosh, I was hanging around the plane, and Jack came by, > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DejaVu" <wvu(at)ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Spider installation question
Date: Nov 06, 2005
Mike, My engine came with the spider already installed. The fuel inlet and pressure ports on the spider face aft. It's then apparent which cylinder is hooked up to which fitting on the spider. Pictures of 410RV show the inlet and pressure ports on their spider facing fwd. The left and right fittings would then be reversed. I'm not an engine guru but it does not seem to matter. Anh #40141 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net> Subject: RV10-List: Fuel Injector Spider installation question > > > --> RV10-List message posted by: "Mike Kraus" > > > I am installing my Airflow Performance fuel injection spider and had a > question. Do I need to match location on the spider to a specific > cylinder, or do I hook up any cylinder to any location in the spider? I > could not seem to find any cylinder numbers on the spider and I > directions leave much to be desired..... > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks > -Mike > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mts.net>
Subject: Re: Any ideas for a heat diffuser on an old 6
Date: Nov 06, 2005
> The cold is coming and Im tired of having my passenger's toes nice and > toasty while Im freezing. Has anyone come > up with an easy solution to > mix the air exiting the firewall from one side? Im thinking of just > riveting a thin piece of al > and bending it to some angle. Not sure how > effective it will be though. I made a heat distribution manifold out of fibreglass, using the lost foam method. I glued styrofoam blocks (blue SM) together using hot glue to get the rough shape and then carved and sanded until I had a mock-up duct that nicely fitted in place without interfering with the rudder pedals. I then covered the foam with several layers of fibreglass and epoxy. When hard, I poured laquer thinner into a hole at one end and dissolved out the foam, leaving a hollow duct. I cut some air exit holes at strategic intervals and installed it. It works great and evenly distributes the heat what heat is available. I only wish there were more of it. I'll send a photo to your email. Curt ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2005
From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: Jack Norris Propeller book version=3.0.3
version=3.0.3 Oh well. Now I'm really sorry I didn't make it to his seminar. John S Hamer wrote: > >John, > >Just as a point of reference, I gave Jack my $12.00 for his book at one of >the Luscombe fly-ins at Columbia Ca. in either '95 or '96, not sure which >year. It was worth the money just to listen to him talk about his career. >The book will be a bonus if he ever finishes it. > >Steve Hamer >Apple Valley > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Huft" <rv8(at)lazy8.net> >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Jack Norris Propeller book version=3.0.3 > > > > >> >>Randy >> >>At Oshkosh, I was hanging around the plane, and Jack came by, >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2005
From: Gerald Richardson <gerric(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Any ideas for a heat diffuser on an old 6
Curt could you email me a photo also at gerric(at)shaw.ca. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Curt Reimer Subject: Re: RV-List: Any ideas for a heat diffuser on an old 6 > The cold is coming and Im tired of having my passenger's toes nice and > toasty while Im freezing. Has anyone come > up with an easy solution to > mix the air exiting the firewall from one side? Im thinking of just > riveting a thin piece of al > and bending it to some angle. Not sure how > effective it will be though. I made a heat distribution manifold out of fibreglass, using the lost foam method. I glued styrofoam blocks (blue SM) together using hot glue to get the rough shape and then carved and sanded until I had a mock-up duct that nicely fitted in place without interfering with the rudder pedals. I then covered the foam with several layers of fibreglass and epoxy. When hard, I poured laquer thinner into a hole at one end and dissolved out the foam, leaving a hollow duct. I cut some air exit holes at strategic intervals and installed it. It works great and evenly distributes the heat what heat is available. I only wish there were more of it. I'll send a photo to your email. Curt ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Tinted canopies
Date: Nov 06, 2005
Hey all- I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm concerned about having the tint for night flight. I've checked the archives, but found nothing useful. For those who have 'been there, done that', what are your observations / recommendations? Obviously, it will affect vision to some extent, but is it at all significant in the real world? Would you do it again? Thanks in advance- Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2005
From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Tinted canopies
Glen, You might want to discuss purchasing a "titanium" tinted canopy from Todd. I've discussed this option with him. Titanium tinted plexi is bronze in color, like sun glasses tinted that color. Titanium tint blocks as much heat and UV radiation as the smoke tint, but lets more light in. It is much better for night ops. Charlie Kuss ---- Glen Matejcek wrote: > > > Hey all- > > I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm > concerned about having the tint for night flight. I've checked the > archives, but found nothing useful. For those who have 'been > there, done that', what are your observations / recommendations? > Obviously, it will affect vision to some extent, but is it at all > significant in the real world? Would you do it again? > > Thanks in advance- > > > Glen Matejcek > aerobubba(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Inman" <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: Nipple on spider too tight
Date: Nov 06, 2005
1.67 SARE_ADLTSUB2 Contains possible adult words I need to change the position of the nipple on the spider so I can run the fuel hose by a shorter route. I cannot losen the nipple.It is just too tight. Do they use some locking compound on these? How do I loosen it? George Inman ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Tinted canopies
Date: Nov 06, 2005
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Glen, I have fairly dark tinted windows in a Velocity. Night flying is not a particular problem as the contrast between lights and dark background is still evident, so landmark recognition is still good. If there is a downside to the tinted windows, it is taxing at night. A robust landing/taxi light helps visibility...much better than a white cane. This is the only area were you'll notice a negative difference with tinted windows (IMHO). Now, the benefits of the tint...and they are many. Primary among them is the heat gain, when parked outside during the summer, is sharply reduced and the light infiltration during flight is much more manageable, though in-your-face sunlight is still intolerable and requires some kind of blockage. These advantages are particularly important for the big green house of the RV. Would I go with the tint again? Absolutely. The drawbacks are minor compared to the advantages. I'm unfamiliar with titanium tinted windows but with the right color scheme, it could be way into the cool-zone. Chuck -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Matejcek Subject: RV-List: Tinted canopies Hey all- I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm concerned about having the tint for night flight. I've checked the archives, but found nothing useful. For those who have 'been there, done that', what are your observations / recommendations? Obviously, it will affect vision to some extent, but is it at all significant in the real world? Would you do it again? Thanks in advance- Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2005
Subject: [ Arthur P. Loring, Jr ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Arthur P. Loring, Jr Lists: RV-List,RV8-List Subject: RV-8 Instrument Panel Access http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/loringsrv8@comcast.net.11.06.2005/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2005
From: Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nipple on spider too tight
Okay guys & gals... Now you all have gone and got me in trouble with my Misses. When she saw the subject "Nipple on spider too tight" she said: "So you're going to Porn sites now huh ?" Great, just great. She'll probably tell her Divirce Attorney 'bout this too. :-) George Inman wrote: I need to change the position of the nipple on the spider so I can run the fuel hose by a shorter route. I cannot losen the nipple.It is just too tight. Do they use some locking compound on these? How do I loosen it? George Inman --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Wheel/tire balancing device picture
The rod-like device you see between the two metal plates goes in the axle area. It does not seem to have any internal bearings. Check with your local mechanic for such a device. I am not sure how you would do it without this device. http://www.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/BalancingDevice.jpg Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Fly n Low" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net>
Subject: Ignitions?
Date: Nov 06, 2005
Hello all; I have an IO-360-A1A currently with Bendix Mags and "Shower of Sparks" When this engine was installed in an Acrosport II I had great difficulty starting it. I finally did develop a process, but it was always a pain in the ..... I am not sure if the problem was with the "Shower of Sparks" unit or with the Mags. The Right Mag was overhauled and that did not make any difference. Now I must decide whether to keep this ignition or to switch to ElectroAir Electronic Ignition. I actually have both at this time. I have also considered selling both and going to Slick Mags. I have also considered just running one of the Bendix Mags and one of the ElectoAir Electronic Ignitions. While attending an engine building seminar in Kansas City a couple of months ago the instructor indicated a strong dislike for any kind of electronic ignition. He disliked mixing the two even more. Ladies and Gentlemen I really need to make a decision and need to make it now. I am ready to start wiring on my RV-8 and have other issues making this a pressing decision. What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice. Bud Silvers RV-8 in progress.


October 23, 2005 - November 06, 2005

RV-Archive.digest.vol-rj