RV-Archive.digest.vol-rk
November 06, 2005 - November 23, 2005
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High Voltage Problem |
Dear Steve:
>From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com>
>Subject: RV-List: High Voltage Problem
>
>After start-up, with the alternator field on or off, the voltage climbed very
>high to over 18 volts. I shut down the engine and restarted and watched again
>as the voltage slowly(1 Min.) rose to 18+ volts. This time I put a load on the
>system with pitot heat, landing lights and strobes and the voltage dropped and
>stayed at about 12.5.It appears that with a load, all looks normal but with no
>load it climbs even with the Alt. field off.
First Steve, your alternator is screwed up. Get it out of there. There is nothing
wrong with
the model, brand. Either the rebuilder installed a faulty part or you damaged it
by turning
it ON/OFF under load and by using a weak battery.
18 volts indicates the internal voltage regulator is regulating to a higher voltage.
Also
voltage drop under load is also not normal. You should remove and send it back.
It seems
to hit or miss with the brand of rebuilds Van sells. This is the second time this
exact thing
has happened. I also think you may have caused the damage by the way you operated
it.
I'll explain.
This is the second time I have heard of this exact condition with a Van ND alternator.
HOWEVER I think you are partially to blame Buddy. The other case involved a RV'er
who also liked to turn the alternator ON after starting and turned it OFF while
the engine
was still running, under load. TURNING IT ON AN OFF UNDER LOAD IS BAD. Don't do
that, ever. DO NOT SWITCH YOUR ND ALTERNATORS ON AND OFF UNDER LOAD.
DON'T DO IT. THERE IS NO REASON TO DO IT. It was not designed that way and is
abrupt at best. Think of it. You are making a load dump and surge in the alternator.
Also there is a misconception, ND alternators IGN lead is a FIELD wire. IT IS
NOT A FIELD WIRE. You do not have a FIELD wire to turn off or on. The IGN wire
that comes out of the regulator is the power for the regulator. REMEMBER these
are
for cars. Think about how the alternator is wired in the car and operates. In a
car you
do not shut the alternator ON and OFF while it is spinning!!!!! Turn it on before
engine start
and leave it on until the engine is shut down. The IGN wire is NOT meant to control
the alternator. It is the come alive wire and go to sleep wire.
Also speaking of wiring the alternator, you should wire it as it was designed
for, aka car. Hook up the warning light. If you had it hooked up, it would be on,
since it indicates charge and internal faults. There is no reason not to hook
the light up. Also if
you have remote voltage sense (as the alternator sold by Van does) you should run
that
direct to the battery. You can tie it to the IGN wire, but that is not how it was
designed.
In my opinion you should wire it just like it was in the auto application is was
meant for.
Turning the IGN wire power ON or OFF may not help if you have a problem, as you
have seen. So if you do have a problem how do you isolate the alternator? THE ONLY
WAY YOU CAN BE SURE TO CONTROL AN ALTERNATOR WITH I-VR, IS PUT A
CIRCUT BREAKER IN THE PANEL ON THE ALTERNATOR OUT PUT LEAD (B-LEAD)
THAT YOU CAN PULL MANUALLY. YOU MAY NEVER NEED TO PULL THE CB. PULL
THE CB IF THERE IS AN ALTERNATOR FAILURE. DO NOT USE AN OV MODULE OR CROW BAR WITH
I-VR ND ALTERNATORS OR YOU WILL DAMAGE THEM. DO NOT INSTALL A OV CROW BAR
ON THIS ALTERNATOR.
Some like to use fuses on the B-lead under the cowl. That is nice but you don't
have
absolute control and can't assume the IGN wire will shut the alterantor down .
The idea
of running the B-lead into the cockpit will make noise, is way over blown. Back
in the old
days regulators where mechanical and had relays that where electrically noisy.
Modern
I-VR alternators like the ND will not produce any more noise in the system because
you
run it to a CB in the panel, as some suggest.
However whatever the reason your alternator failed, you damaged it by turning it
on/off under load, the weak battery or the part was just bad, take it out and
send it back. It is definitely not operating properly.
>The battery is an Odyssey and is about three years old ( I wanted it on hand
>during the building of the electrical system) and not holding a charge well.
>could this be the culprit?
Yes, GET THAT OUT OF THERE. Yes a weak battery is hard on alternators and the
battery is your safety buffer to alternator problems. A strong battery will absorb
alternator problems. There is no reason to fly with a weak battery.
>The Alternator is a 60 amp. from Van's. Could it be a regulator gone bad within
>it? I don't see how with the field switched off but electrons are a big mystery
>to me.
Not all ND alternators are ND alterantors. Rebuilders use aftermarket non-OEM parts.
Also you don't know what was replaced or what was re-used. Not all rebuilders are
the
same and not all aftermarket parts are the same. There are at least 2 or 3 different
part manufactures (China) making parts for alternators. Whether they are
as good as OEM
original ND parts, made in Japan, is open to debate.
As I said this is only the *come alive* power. Once the alternator is running it
gets power thru the battery and B-lead. Some ND alternators will not shut down
with the IGN wire de-energize after the unit is spinning. I do not have this model
to
test. However like the previous RV'er one symptom of the condition was the IGN
wire would not shut the alternator down. To repeat the IGN wire function is not
to
turn the alternator ON or OFF under load. Think of it as the wake up signal and
the
go to sleep signal.
I Love the ND alternator but the company that Van buys his rebuild units are a
little
suspect. You could go down to Pep Boys and buy the same unit (LASTER #14684)
for less than what Van sells it for. The unit is found on the following:
(1988-87) Chevrolet Sprint 1.0L
(1995-86) Suzuki Samurai 1.3L
(1989) Suzuki Sidekick 1.3L
You can also get them all new made from aftermarket parts. However the auto stores
usually carry only rebuilds. You have to go thru an auto electrical specialty shop
to order new units . I may be able to get you a NEW one at discount, less than
what
Van sells rebuilt units for, but they are back ordered right now.
>Any thoughts and ideas would be appreciated.
>Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO
Take it out, send it back and wait. If you are in a hurry you can go to Pep Boys
and buy one. I found that Pep Boys sells a good brand of rebuilds. The good part
is it will have a warranty and be cheaper than what Van sells them for.
If you can wait, I can see about getting a new unit for you. Not all rebuild companies
are the same. I would like to know who rebuilds the alternators Van sells. There
are
about 3 major companies that rebuild alternators. Several companies manufacture
after market components for ND alternators. Ideal would be get an all NEW ND
alternator with all new OEM genuine ND parts. Since the unit Van sells is for an
application no longer in production, so the we are stuck with junkyard, rebuilt
or NEW
from aftermarket parts on this particular model.
You can get them all new made from aftermarket parts. I may be able to get you
a NEW one at discount, but they are back ordered right now. IT may take a few
weeks to get one. The cost will be way less than $200 and that is NEW not
rebuilt. Let me know.
>So very close to first flight!
Don't rush it, don't fly with this alternator. George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
We have the ElectroAir unit (from Jeff Rose) on our RV6 (O-320, 160 HP)
along with one mag and it is definitely an improvement over the mag. Better
starting. SMoother running.No drop in RPM when the mag is turned off (it is
providing the sparks so much better than a mag that the mag is not adding
anything).
You get most of the "bang" from having the first eletronic ignition. Have a
mag running along as "backup" is good belt and suspenders in my book. Also
if the mag is an impulse mag you can start and run even if the old battery
is getting a bit low (as in dies during flight).
I am building another RV and am trying the Lightspeed Plasma II+ in it.
If I were start from zero I would look into the E-Mag and P-Mag.
Give the scenario you mentioned, you already have the ElectroAir, I would
DEFINITELY put one of the units in along with one mag.
I would keep the second unit as a "spare" as Jeff said that he is no longer
selling the units BUT he still SUPPORTS the units in the field. I suspect
though that the units will outlast the engine on the plane and by the time
you need a new engine there will be other proven options.
James
On 11/6/05, Fly n Low wrote:
>
>
> Hello all;
>
> I have an IO-360-A1A currently with Bendix Mags and "Shower of Sparks"
>
> When this engine was installed in an Acrosport II I had great difficulty
> starting it. I finally did develop a process, but it was always a pain in
> the .....
>
> I am not sure if the problem was with the "Shower of Sparks" unit or with
> the Mags. The Right Mag was overhauled and that did not make any
> difference.
>
> Now I must decide whether to keep this ignition or to switch to ElectroAir
> Electronic Ignition. I actually have both at this time. I have also
> considered selling both and going to Slick Mags. I have also considered
> just
> running one of the Bendix Mags and one of the ElectoAir Electronic
> Ignitions.
>
> While attending an engine building seminar in Kansas City a couple of
> months
> ago the instructor indicated a strong dislike for any kind of electronic
> ignition. He disliked mixing the two even more.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen I really need to make a decision and need to make it
> now. I am ready to start wiring on my RV-8 and have other issues making
> this
> a pressing decision.
>
> What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice.
>
> Bud Silvers
> RV-8 in progress.
>
>
> ,
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fly n Low" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ignitions?
>
>
> What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice.
>
> Bud Silvers
> RV-8 in progress.
>
I have one Electroair and one standard mag on my RV-6's O-320. I've been
satisfied by the performance of the combination, and like the idea of having
a mag back-up to the electronic ignition.
My only concern about non-standard ignition systsems is the thin support
network. If my mag goes south at any airport with an A&P or AI, he has a
parts source and can get parts in 24 hours, putting me back in the air in a
couple of days maximum. Many shops stock the common mag repair parts, so
same day service is possible. This probably isn't the case with the
Electroair or any other limited volume ignition system.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Greg Grigson <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Slider tip-forward canopy madification |
Looking for any drawings, photos, info, etc. on how the slider tip-forward mod
that some clever guys have made is constructed. Seems like a great solution
to allow easy acess to the -6/7/9 baggage area.
Aloha and mahalo.
Greg
N-79PT (still in test flight phase)
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
A buddy of mine has a 4 with a custom made sliding canopy. He used the
original canopy for the sliding part but used some tinted Plexiglas for the
wind screen. It didn't look to dark but he found that flying at night was a
problem but the main problem was flying during the day with some WX around.
It was hard to see it any precipitation directly in front of the plane. He
changed it to clear.
Scott
>From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Tinted canopies
>Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:29:19 -0500
>
>
>Glen,
>
>I have fairly dark tinted windows in a Velocity. Night flying is not a
>particular problem as the contrast between lights and dark background is
>still evident, so landmark recognition is still good. If there is a
>downside to the tinted windows, it is taxing at night. A robust
>landing/taxi light helps visibility...much better than a white cane.
>This is the only area were you'll notice a negative difference with
>tinted windows (IMHO).
>
>Now, the benefits of the tint...and they are many. Primary among them
>is the heat gain, when parked outside during the summer, is sharply
>reduced and the light infiltration during flight is much more
>manageable, though in-your-face sunlight is still intolerable and
>requires some kind of blockage. These advantages are particularly
>important for the big green house of the RV. Would I go with the tint
>again? Absolutely. The drawbacks are minor compared to the advantages.
>
>I'm unfamiliar with titanium tinted windows but with the right color
>scheme, it could be way into the cool-zone.
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Matejcek
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Tinted canopies
>
>
>Hey all-
>
>I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm
>concerned about having the tint for night flight. I've checked the
>archives, but found nothing useful. For those who have 'been
>there, done that', what are your observations / recommendations?
>Obviously, it will affect vision to some extent, but is it at all
>significant in the real world? Would you do it again?
>
>Thanks in advance-
>
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Scott,
That's an interesting observation. I was going to point out in my
earlier post that a minor benefit of the tinted windscreen was it seem
to reduce washout from sun glare/diffusion and made discerning inflight
weather a little better.
All in the eye of the beholder.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of james frierson
Subject: RE: RV-List: Tinted canopies
A buddy of mine has a 4 with a custom made sliding canopy. He used the
original canopy for the sliding part but used some tinted Plexiglas for
the
wind screen. It didn't look to dark but he found that flying at night
was a
problem but the main problem was flying during the day with some WX
around.
It was hard to see it any precipitation directly in front of the plane.
He
changed it to clear.
Scott
>From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Tinted canopies
>Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 12:29:19 -0500
>
>
>Glen,
>
>I have fairly dark tinted windows in a Velocity. Night flying is not a
>particular problem as the contrast between lights and dark background
is
>still evident, so landmark recognition is still good. If there is a
>downside to the tinted windows, it is taxing at night. A robust
>landing/taxi light helps visibility...much better than a white cane.
>This is the only area were you'll notice a negative difference with
>tinted windows (IMHO).
>
>Now, the benefits of the tint...and they are many. Primary among them
>is the heat gain, when parked outside during the summer, is sharply
>reduced and the light infiltration during flight is much more
>manageable, though in-your-face sunlight is still intolerable and
>requires some kind of blockage. These advantages are particularly
>important for the big green house of the RV. Would I go with the tint
>again? Absolutely. The drawbacks are minor compared to the
advantages.
>
>I'm unfamiliar with titanium tinted windows but with the right color
>scheme, it could be way into the cool-zone.
>
>Chuck
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Glen Matejcek
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Tinted canopies
>
>
>
>Hey all-
>
>I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm
>concerned about having the tint for night flight. I've checked the
>archives, but found nothing useful. For those who have 'been
>there, done that', what are your observations / recommendations?
>Obviously, it will affect vision to some extent, but is it at all
>significant in the real world? Would you do it again?
>
>Thanks in advance-
>
>
>Glen Matejcek
>aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over voltage module (was: High Voltage Problem ) |
Dear John and jdoody727:
>From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
>Subject: Re: RV-List: High Voltage Problem
>Steve, I assume the lower voltage with load was at low RPM? If so, it
>sounds like the field is shorted to +12...could be a bad regulator, or
>bad wiring. A weak battery wouldn't act like that.
>
>John
John:
This is common miss understanding. The I-VR ND alternator does not have a field
wire, or at least a field wire you can see. The IGN wire is the regulators power
on/off
lead. The control of the field (to ground) is by a field control transistor and
is controlled
by the internal voltage regulator. Once running the field and regulator have power
thru the
B-lead. Now the IGN wire can command the field to shut down thru the IGN wire
(come alive/sleep wire), but in Steve's case the IGN wire would not shut the alternator
down once running. This was part of the symptom of this failure.
If you did have direct access to the field and could open the field wire, you
would shut
the alternator down. However the field wire is behind the I-VR and inside the alternator,
so we don't have direct access to it. Is this a problem? Well no and YOU DON'T
need
an OV module to protect an I-VR alternator. (below)
You are correct that most external regulators vary a +12 volt field wire to control
output
(type "B"), but most internal VR's are different. The field wire is internal and
the rotor (field)
always has +12 volts on it (from the B-lead/battery). It is actually an "A" type
regulator
that controls to ground (negative side of the rotor or field).
So I guess you are saying the rotor is shorted to ground. If this was the case
it would go
to full output, which is way over 18 volts. This has never happened, but some stories
and rumors have reported it happening. However they are stories with no
proof or facts. For this to happen internally would be a very rare scenario.
There are also internal protections for this
built into the IC voltage regulator. George
>From: jdoody727(at)comcast.net
>Subject: Re: RV-List: High Voltage Problem>
>
>Dear Steve,
>
>Could very well be the voltage regulator. Do you have over voltage protection
>installed? B&C sells a fairly inexpensive ( about $45) over voltage unit.
>I wish it was installed when my regulator went. At least it's there now.
First this is a big big misconception. ND alternators DO have OV protection. In
fact
there are no real cases of extreme OV in ND alternators. Now +18 volts is not good,
but
a true OV condition (field short) would produce very high voltage , well past 18
volts. In
Steve's case it is a partial failure and the regulator is not stable, but a true
OV is way
extreme. For a condition like this to occur in a ND alternator would require a
very rare
unlikely failure. Also you would see signs of impending failure, giving time to
shut the
B-lead down manually (pull the CB).
If you read the technical data supplied with internally voltage regulated alternators,
I-VR,
tell you to NOT to ground or arc the B-lead (out put). Also it warns not to run
with out the battery connected to the battery. With the crow bar you install
a relay in series with the
output. In theory the relay opens when a OV is detected. First you short the B-lead
than
abruptly cut it off from the battery. ALL BAD.
The problem is OV modules have faults trips (often) and damage alternators.
OV module you speak of is the "Crow Bar". This part is connected to a CB and a
relay. VAN DOES NOT RECOMMEND THIS AND IT VOIDS THE WARREN TY. All the
parts would cost about $100 total. The Relay goes on the alternators out put line
(B-lead). When crow bar sees a high voltage it SHORTS the CB and B-lead to ground,
shorting the alternator to ground until the CB pops. The CB opens, taking power
away form the normally open b-lead relay. When the relay opens you will have a
large
internal arc inside the relay. All this grounding and arcing will cause the ND
alternator
to be damage. This is not a normal thing a good alternator should see.
Crow bar can have faults trips. Some transient action like landing lights can cause
a nuisance trip. If this happens while a good alternator is turning, making power
it will fry it. Remember the crow bar is SHORTING DIRECT TO GROUND. This is
harsh.
Many do have the OV module on their I-VR ND alternator but you are adding more
weight, parts, cost and possible failure points. ND alternators are VERY safe
and reliable.
OK so the question is, your ND alternator has a failure and is not regulating voltage
normally. What do you do? Well you should have a CB on the panel for the B-lead
(alternator output). If there is any problem indicated by your Hi/Lo volt light
(which you
should have) just reach over and pull the CB. Of all the ND alternator problems
most
have are benign, meaning they just stop producing power. OV conditions of any kind
are rare. I don't know of any documented extreme OV condition.
Some suggest you use a big fuse under the cowl for the B-lead to avoid bring the
B-lead
into the cockpit for noise reasons. That is over blown and just not true. Modern
alternators
are quite, compared to the the old stuff on factory planes. Besides even with old
style
alternators and external regulators how much noise have you heard in your Piper
or
Cessna with a B-lead CB on the panel? NONE. Bad grounds are the source of most
noise or RFI. If you have a I-VR alternator you should have a CB on the panel and
don't use
a crow bar.
The use of fuses on the B-lead with an I-VR is not recommended because you can
not assume the IGN lead will shut it down after a fault, as we see. Get the Big
CB on the
panel.
Internally regulated ND alternators are VERY reliable and safe. Some have been
in experimental airplanes for 10 year with no problems and 1000's of hours. I checked
the Highway Safety Foundation that tracks all things related to auto safety and
consumer affairs. The ND alternator has no Service letters, safety RECALLS or
complaints in +25 years .This is not true of all brands of alternators. There have
been
problems with other brands consistently but not the NipponDenso, such as Hitachi,
Bosch, and Ford for example.
The products ND designs and build are extensively tested by demanding field test
and
in the lab. Also the design has evolved from decades of improvement. Internal regulated
internal FAN alternators are really the only units made for the consumer since
the mid to
late 80's for a reason. These devices are well protected from OV and cars have
very
expensive computers to protect. Now look at the state of the art power makers in
Cessna
and Pipers. They are based on 50's and 60 's technology. The reason for OV modules
was these old 50's and 60's external regulated alternators went OV often because
they had no internal protection. The modern ND alternator has OV protection.
Steve's problem shows nothing is perfect, but I have two Acuras. One with 125,000
miles and another with 230,000 miles. Together that is 25 years of service and
the ND alternators are still going strong. On my RV-4 I had 800 hours of trouble
free
service on my ND alternator before I sold the plane. Another ND has been on a Thorpe
T-18 for 10 year with no problems. The issue of bad rebuilds is another topic.
George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Slider tip-forward canopy madification |
Try this:
http://www.aircraftextras.com/Tip-Up-Slider1.htm
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Greg Grigson
Subject: RV-List: Slider tip-forward canopy madification
Looking for any drawings, photos, info, etc. on how the slider
tip-forward mod that some clever guys have made is constructed. Seems
like a great solution to allow easy acess to the -6/7/9 baggage area.
Aloha and mahalo.
Greg
N-79PT (still in test flight phase)
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
On 11/6/05 2:20 PM, "Kyle Boatright" wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original
>
>>
>> What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice.
>>
>> Bud Silvers
>> RV-8 in progress.
>>
>
I would also like to get some more "testimonials" on EI especially the
Lightspeed units. My RV-4 has 250 hours on a new Aerosport engine with
Slick mags and has been 100% trouble free. But I am attracted to the fuel
savings and smoothness of the Lightspeed EI systems (I am considering
installing one Plasma III unit). Several local RVs are flying with these
units (one uses a dual Lightspeed system) and everyone has had no issues
whatsoever. Regardless, anyone else's comments on the Lightspeed EI system
would be appreciated.
Doug Weiler
Pres, MN WING
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
On 6 Nov 2005, at 14:55, Fly n Low wrote:
> While attending an engine building seminar in Kansas City a couple
> of months
> ago the instructor indicated a strong dislike for any kind of
> electronic
> ignition. He disliked mixing the two even more.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen I really need to make a decision and need to
> make it
> now. I am ready to start wiring on my RV-8 and have other issues
> making this
> a pressing decision.
Why did the instructor not like electronic ignition, or mixing EI and
mags? If he gave a reason, then we can discuss it on its merits. If
he didn't give a reason, then the information is useless to you.
If you go with dual EI, you obviously need to pay very, very close
attention to your electrical system design. You need a design that
will continue to power at least one ignition after any single failure.
Adding one EI probably gives you about of 90% of the performance
increase that you would get from a dual EI setup. Lots of people are
running one EI and one mag with no ill effects. This is probably the
best solution (unless you either want to have a P-Mag, or a very
complicated electrical system).
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slider tip-forward canopy modification |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Greg,
Just contact "aircraft extras.com" as he is the one who designed
the tip up for the slider. I purchased one for my "9-A" that I'm
buiding. It is a great device to get into the baggage compartment.
Jim Nelson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
A properly working shower of sparks ignition will start better than any
impulse coupled mag. Perhaps the electronic ignitions are bettter. However,
overhauling the right mag does absolutely Zero for starting, because it
isn't used on a shower of sparks system until the ignition key is returned
from start to both. The shower of sparks drives a retard set of breaker
points in the Left mag, firing it at TDC with multiple sparks generated by
the vibrator. If you have starting problems either the vibrator output is
bad, or the breaker points are bad.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fly n Low" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ignitions?
Hello all;
I have an IO-360-A1A currently with Bendix Mags and "Shower of Sparks"
When this engine was installed in an Acrosport II I had great difficulty
starting it. I finally did develop a process, but it was always a pain in
the .....
I am not sure if the problem was with the "Shower of Sparks" unit or with
the Mags. The Right Mag was overhauled and that did not make any difference.
Now I must decide whether to keep this ignition or to switch to ElectroAir
Electronic Ignition. I actually have both at this time. I have also
considered selling both and going to Slick Mags. I have also considered just
running one of the Bendix Mags and one of the ElectoAir Electronic
Ignitions.
While attending an engine building seminar in Kansas City a couple of months
ago the instructor indicated a strong dislike for any kind of electronic
ignition. He disliked mixing the two even more.
Ladies and Gentlemen I really need to make a decision and need to make it
now. I am ready to start wiring on my RV-8 and have other issues making this
a pressing decision.
What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice.
Bud Silvers
RV-8 in progress.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
The Lycoming manula for my O-360 shows that each magneto is used to
power 2 top spark plugs and 2 lower spark plugs. Is there any reason
why one mag shouldn't handle all the top plugs and the other all the
bottom plugs?
I've actually got 1 mag plus a Lightspeed CDI system. It would be more
convenient to use the Lightspeed system on the bottom plugs and the mag
for the top plugs.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ignition wiring |
>I've actually got 1 mag plus a Lightspeed CDI system. It would be more
>convenient to use the Lightspeed system on the bottom plugs and the mag
>for the top plugs.
That is how mine is set up but the LSE powers the top plugs. I am not
sure if it matters which. Check the installation instructions.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "J D Newsum" <jnewsum1(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High Voltage Problem |
George,
I want to use a Suzuki ND alternator in my RV6. I need a 60 amp capable one
and am told that the 1987 Suzuki Samurai model is capable of this. I would
prefer to get a new one rather that rebuilt but I expect that trying to buy
one out right with no core from a Suzuki dealer would be pricy. In your
previous post, you mentioned the possiblility of getting a NEW one at a
discount. Where do you recommend getting a new one in lieu of rebuilt one
from PEP BOYS.
JD
You can also get them all new made from aftermarket parts. However the auto
stores
usually carry only rebuilds. You have to go thru an auto electrical
specialty shop
to order new units . I may be able to get you a NEW one at discount, less
than what
Van sells rebuilt units for, but they are back ordered right now.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
| Subject: | When to buy engine? |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
I am receiving my quickbuild fuselage next week. How much longer until I need to
buy the engine? Or should I ask, what needs to be done if
I have the QB fuse before needing the engine?
- Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: ignition wiring |
The lower plugs tend to foul more. If you lost your
top mag, the lower mag plugs will foul more quickly.
--- sarg314 wrote:
>
>
> The Lycoming manula for my O-360 shows that each
> magneto is used to
> power 2 top spark plugs and 2 lower spark plugs. Is
> there any reason
> why one mag shouldn't handle all the top plugs and
> the other all the
> bottom plugs?
>
> I've actually got 1 mag plus a Lightspeed CDI
> system. It would be more
> convenient to use the Lightspeed system on the
> bottom plugs and the mag
> for the top plugs.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
http://farechase.yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
I think this would be a good solution and it is how I have mine set up. I
am told that the bottom plugs will stay cleaner with the hotter spark of the
EI system and the top plugs tend to foul less anyway so put them on the mag.
Pat Hatch
RV-6
RV-7
The Lycoming manula for my O-360 shows that each magneto is used to
power 2 top spark plugs and 2 lower spark plugs. Is there any reason
why one mag shouldn't handle all the top plugs and the other all the
bottom plugs?
I've actually got 1 mag plus a Lightspeed CDI system. It would be more
convenient to use the Lightspeed system on the bottom plugs and the mag
for the top plugs.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tinted canopies |
Glen, I have one of Todd's canopies on my F1. I settled with the gray tint
that was next to the darkest sample...in other words, there was one that was
pretty dark but this wasn't the tint I chose. Todd told me that the tint I
chose was FAA-legal for night flying. With the bronze tint, looking thru the
samples he sent me, outside colors shifted towards the bronze but didn't
with the gray tint.
I'm pleased my canopy, and don't think nighttime visibility is going to be a
problem with the medium gray tint I chose. I attached the canopy to the
frame with Sikaflex. Other than being more work than drilling/riveting the
canopy on, I'm glad I went that route as well.
Todd went the extra mile to make me happy and like to let people know about
guys like him who know their business depends on having a good reputation.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
>
> I'm considering a tinted canopy from Todd's canopies for my -8, but I'm
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: ignition wiring |
Tom, what you want to do is what I did in wiring my mag and EI. I have my
mag powering all the lower plugs. More convenient for my installation. I
have not had any problems with 75 hours of usage. Plugs all look fine at
inspection.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: ignition wiring
>
> The Lycoming manula for my O-360 shows that each magneto is used to
> power 2 top spark plugs and 2 lower spark plugs. Is there any reason
> why one mag shouldn't handle all the top plugs and the other all the
> bottom plugs?
>
> I've actually got 1 mag plus a Lightspeed CDI system. It would be more
> convenient to use the Lightspeed system on the bottom plugs and the mag
> for the top plugs.
>
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
If I were doing it again (after 75 hours of flying behind one impulse mag
and one EI), I would make the same decision. It is the best combination
from safety and performance at an economical price of entry IMHO.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fly n Low" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net>
Subject: RV-List: Ignitions?
>
> Hello all;
>
> I have an IO-360-A1A currently with Bendix Mags and "Shower of Sparks"
>
> When this engine was installed in an Acrosport II I had great difficulty
> starting it. I finally did develop a process, but it was always a pain in
> the .....
>
> I am not sure if the problem was with the "Shower of Sparks" unit or with
> the Mags. The Right Mag was overhauled and that did not make any
> difference.
>
> Now I must decide whether to keep this ignition or to switch to ElectroAir
> Electronic Ignition. I actually have both at this time. I have also
> considered selling both and going to Slick Mags. I have also considered
> just
> running one of the Bendix Mags and one of the ElectoAir Electronic
> Ignitions.
>
> While attending an engine building seminar in Kansas City a couple of
> months
> ago the instructor indicated a strong dislike for any kind of electronic
> ignition. He disliked mixing the two even more.
>
> Ladies and Gentlemen I really need to make a decision and need to make it
> now. I am ready to start wiring on my RV-8 and have other issues making
> this
> a pressing decision.
>
> What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice.
>
> Bud Silvers
> RV-8 in progress.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over voltage module (was: High Voltage Problem ) |
>George,
>
>Do you think that the ND alternator is designed with an OV
>limit of 18v? What kind of voltage would one expect on a
>true OV failure?
>?
>
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 finishing
Mickey :
It could be a back-up 18v OV mode?
In theory it could pump out the theoretical limit of the weakest component (transistor,
diode, wiring or internal fusible link or current limit device if any).
What is the limit? Depending on the components it could be 60, 100, 130 volts
or more. However there are a few factors that would limit this. Also for this
to happen you need a dead short on the rotor ground.
First the battery is about 12.8 volts. It will absorb and moderate any OV condition,
however his battery was in disrepair. That is why you need a strong battery
and flying with a bad battery reduces your safety margins in many ways. It
may have contributed to the unstable voltage regulation. The battery has a moderating
effect, but if the alternator goes super nova the buss voltage will
rise.
Extreem OV with modern alterantors is rare and never heard of with an internally
regulated ND alternators, but I have heard of the slight OV conditions like
this before. As I said turning the alternator on and off under load, with the
IGN wire, seems to damage the regulator. As I said that is not how it is operated
in the application it was originally design for, a car. My common sense says
we should wire it and operate it the same way in our plane, as the car application
it was meant for.
Second, the components in the alternator will rise to their physical current, voltage
or thermal
limits. When this happens it will FUSE, burn out and go to zero, with a puff of
smoke no doubt. How fast will this happen? Don't know but it will be fast.
As far as the 18 volts it seems the alternator went into a reduced back-up mode
or limp home mode. Clearly it was not doing the job it should. 18 volt is high
but it is not runaway. It also varied with load.
To answer your question, if the field is allowed to go to full buss voltage it
could bootstrap itself to a very high voltage. However for this to happen you
would have to have a rare dead short of the rotor, outside the control of the
VR. Since the wires are internal and well protected, it is unlikely. However
airplane wings come off and crank shafts fail in engines.
The ND specs call for rotor short protection. What does that mean? I don't know
for sure but guess there is some sacrificial parts to fuse a runaway. That is
also on reason not to add the OV module. The alternator no doubt sees a OV trip
of a B-lead realy as a B-lead short and fuses.
George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Slider tip-forward canopy madification |
contact Aircraftextras.com for the kit.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Greg Grigson" <iflyhawaii2(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: Slider tip-forward canopy madification
>
>
> Looking for any drawings, photos, info, etc. on how the slider tip-forward
> mod that some clever guys have made is constructed. Seems like a great
> solution to allow easy acess to the -6/7/9 baggage area.
>
>
> Aloha and mahalo.
>
> Greg
>
> N-79PT (still in test flight phase)
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Solution to two radios/one antenna quandary |
A local (00V) RV-4 pilot has come up with a solution to operating two radios
from one antenna. In the process he removed a draggy (and ugly) antenna
from the top of the fuselage.
This only allows operation of one radio at a time and is switched by a toggle
switch on the assembly. I asked if he would be willing to sell these and he
indicated that he would.
If there is any interest in this, email me privately and I will forward
your name
and email to him for follow-up. I don't know what the price is so any such
discussions will between him and potential buyers.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
-
Subject: RV-List: ignition wiring
The Lycoming manula for my O-360 shows that each magneto is used to
power 2 top spark plugs and 2 lower spark plugs. Is there any reason
why one mag shouldn't handle all the top plugs and the other all the
bottom plugs?
I've actually got 1 mag plus a Lightspeed CDI system. It would be more
convenient to use the Lightspeed system on the bottom plugs and the mag
for the top plugs.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
Tom: As has been said, the bottom plugs tend to foul differently than
the top. The top and bottom plugs are split between the mags to even
out the mag drop when doing the mag perfomance checks prior to takeoff.
I have been told that when using one electronic ignition, firing the
bottom plugs with it is a good idea since that system is less affected
by fouling. I know of others with this arrangement and it works fine.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | baffle penetration |
Having AFP on my engine I am going to have to bring the fuel purge line
and a control cable thru the rear engine baffle. I know how to
penetrate a fire wall with these, but not the baffle. I'm guessing the
baffle penetration does not need the degree of care that the firewall does.
Are there grommets or bushings of some sort that will prevent chafing
and yet tolerate the high temperatures that can occur, especially after
the engine is shut down. (it gets as hot as a pizza oven in there!).
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Baffles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: baffle penetration |
I used a sliced AN931-10-14 rubber grommet where my purge valve hose passes
through my rear baffle wall:
http://rvproject.com/images/2003/20031105_grommet.jpg
Still doing fine after many hours and many heat cycles.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (670 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "sarg314" <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: baffle penetration
>
> Having AFP on my engine I am going to have to bring the fuel purge line
> and a control cable thru the rear engine baffle. I know how to
> penetrate a fire wall with these, but not the baffle. I'm guessing the
> baffle penetration does not need the degree of care that the firewall
does.
>
> Are there grommets or bushings of some sort that will prevent chafing
> and yet tolerate the high temperatures that can occur, especially after
> the engine is shut down. (it gets as hot as a pizza oven in there!).
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Baffles.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | baffle penetration |
Tom,
Use the Cable Safe p/n 05-16250 with the 3/16" bushing p/n 05-16251 from
Aircraft Spruce for the control cable. The rubber grommet works OK for the
fuel line. I tried the grommet on my control cable but it chewed right
through it, had to convert to the Cable Safe.
Pat Hatch
RV-6
RV-7
Subject: RV-List: baffle penetration
Having AFP on my engine I am going to have to bring the fuel purge line
and a control cable thru the rear engine baffle. I know how to
penetrate a fire wall with these, but not the baffle. I'm guessing the
baffle penetration does not need the degree of care that the firewall does.
Are there grommets or bushings of some sort that will prevent chafing
and yet tolerate the high temperatures that can occur, especially after
the engine is shut down. (it gets as hot as a pizza oven in there!).
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, Baffles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over voltage module (was: High Voltage Problem ) |
Mickey:
You got me thinking. I looked up the specs on the regulator and the over voltage
set point is 17 volts. The regulating voltage range is 14.5 V, +/- 0.3 volts.
I was thinking that the alternator would be OVER VOLTAGE with anything above
14.8 volts.
The over voltage limit of 17 volts is another level. How it defaults to this I
do not know.
As we have seen when the regulator has a bad day it seems to go to this Vov limit.
George
>Do you think that the ND alternator is designed with an OV
>limit of 18v? What kind of voltage would one expect on a
>true OV failure?
>?
>
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 finishing
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
Thanks to all for the replies on canopy tinting- It's a big help!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RE:Solution to two radios/one antenna quandary |
| From: | "Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta" <Stephen.Adams(at)HCAhealthcare.com> |
Not to be critical, but if you're only able to use one radio at a time, why bother
putting 2 radios in the stack with all the associated cost, wiring, switching
mechanism, panel space etc? What if your switch fails and you can't use either
radio? If you're that concerned about the drag from a single antenna, why
not put in a single radio and get a portable for you backup? Just a thought.
Steve Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RE:Solution to two radios/one antenna quandary |
Bob Archer (Sportcraft Antenna) has a COM switch (SA-010) that allows the
use of both radios for receive. The active radio is the only one that can
transmit to the single antenna.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 11/8/2005 5:04:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
Stephen.Adams(at)HCAhealthcare.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Adams Stephen - Doctors Hosp Augusta"
Not to be critical, but if you're only able to use one radio at a time, why
bother putting 2 radios in the stack with all the associated cost, wiring,
switching mechanism, panel space etc? What if your switch fails and you can't
use either radio? If you're that concerned about the drag from a single
antenna, why not put in a single radio and get a portable for you backup? Just
a
thought.
Steve Adams
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE:Solution to two radios/one antenna quandary |
>Not to be critical, but if you're only able to use one radio at a time,
>why bother putting 2 radios in the stack with all the associated cost,
>wiring, switching mechanism, panel space etc? What if your switch fails
>and you can't use either radio? If you're that concerned about the drag
>from a single antenna, why not put in a single radio and get a portable
>for you backup? Just a thought.
>
>Steve Adams
You can be critical. Your position is viable. However, if a person wants
two panel mounted radios, does not want two external antennas and
is willing to use only one at a time...then is offers one way to do it.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Nipple on spider too tight |
The nipples do not need any sealing compound as they are tapered fittings.
Unfortunately, that does not mean someone may not have used any. The
nipples are made of brass so they screw up fairly easy, and because they are
of a different material than the flow divider housing their expansion factor
is different so that over time they seem to become pretty tight in the
housing. There is no easy solution to getting them out other than trying to
use a closed end wrench. If that does not work then you can try a pair of
vise grips but that may twist the nipple right off leaving the end in the
flow divider housing. Another option is to try and het the housing a little
to loosen up the fitting. But you want to be very careful as too much het
could damage the diaphram inside the flow divider. Sometimes the best way
is to just take the thing off, send it to Precision Airmotive, and tell them
what you want.
Hope this helps.
Mike Robertson
Been there, done that!
>From: "George Inman" <ghinman(at)mts.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "RV-list matronics"
>Subject: RV-List: Nipple on spider too tight
>Date: Sun, 6 Nov 2005 11:27:54 -0600 1.67 SARE_ADLTSUB2
>Contains possible adult words
>
>
> I need to change the position of the nipple
> on the spider so I can run the fuel hose by a shorter route.
> I cannot losen the nipple.It is just too tight.
>Do they use some locking compound on these?
>How do I loosen it?
>
>George Inman
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
need to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
Electronic Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but
Jeff Rose no longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out
the wires, I'd like to try the auto plugs.
I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto plugs
(reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
recommendations?
I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The mag
will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower
plugs.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Hi,
Call Jeff Rose or the new owner Michael Kobylik at 866 494-3002. I put an
Electroair system on in September and found that the installation manual
recommended aviation plugs at this time. I do believe there was a thread a
while back (I've been on and off the list) about the auto plugs causing
rough running and even an episode in which a plug melted.
Steve in Vermont
N227RV RV-6A flying
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Brame
Subject: RV-List: Spark plugs
My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I need
to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose Electronic
Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but Jeff Rose no
longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out the wires, I'd
like to try the auto plugs.
I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto plugs
(reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
recommendations?
I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The mag
will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower plugs.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
I've been running Autolite 386 plugs in my O-320/Electroair RV-6 for 4+
years with no problems. There is a fair amount of material in the archives
on this subject, and some of it claims that Jeff Rose found the auto plugs
might cost you 4 hp vs aircraft plugs. Another post indicated that Jeff
thought Aircraft plugs held up better. All of this information is second
hand at best, so it might be best to go to the source for the latest information.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: RE: RV-List: Spark plugs
>
> Hi,
>
> Call Jeff Rose or the new owner Michael Kobylik at 866 494-3002. I put an
> Electroair system on in September and found that the installation manual
> recommended aviation plugs at this time. I do believe there was a thread a
> while back (I've been on and off the list) about the auto plugs causing
> rough running and even an episode in which a plug melted.
>
> Steve in Vermont
> N227RV RV-6A flying
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie Brame
> To: RV-List
> Subject: RV-List: Spark plugs
>
>
> My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
> need
> to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
> Electronic
> Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but Jeff Rose no
> longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out the wires, I'd
> like to try the auto plugs.
>
> I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto plugs
> (reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
> recommendations?
>
> I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The mag
> will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower plugs.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Edward O'Connor ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Edward O'Connor
Lists: RV-List
Subject: Archer Wingtip Antenna in RV-8
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/Edwardoconnor@mac.com.11.08.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
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6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
I purchased some "V" strip to use as a weather seal on my RV-4 tip up
canopy. (ACS #05-01900) I know that on the front I need to keep air out therefore
the incoming air would open the V and do its sealing job if I point the seal
inward . However, I'm not sure if I need to do the same on the rest of the
canopy. Which way should I point the seal? Is the balance of the air incoming
or
is it going out? I think the balance of the air would be outgoing,
especially if I had the heat on. That should pressurize the interior so I'm assuming
that the sides and rear of the canopy should have the "V" pointing out. What
have others done? Thanks in advance.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | QB Part Removal Cheat Sheet? |
| From: | "" <tx_jayhawk(at)excite.com> |
All, I am digging into my 7A QB fuse, and I am wondering if anyone has a "cheat
sheet" that they might share on what parts to remove. I am going through the
manual by each step, and I am quickly finding out that there may be sections
where all but a minor detail has been completed on the QB. Frequently you have
to remove a part (drill out some pop rivets) to access this section. For example,
last night I was drilling out the floor, and it seems you need to remove
the baggage section and the front (spar) section of the floor (but not the
middle section). Outside of trial and error, is there a rule of thumb on what
needs removed? Sometime you can't see the part to verify whether its been completed
without removing something. BTW...after doing the slow-build wings, this
QB is a blast! It sure seems like cheating.... Scott7A Fuse
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
When I went through this a year ago, Jeff told me the best thing to do was
use the aircraft plugs. Practically no chance of problems if properly
installed. He has worked with both. My plugs have gone through 75 hours so
far and the EI is working great. Me, I decided that spending a few $$ more
to accommodate the designer's recommendations after designer seeing
thousands of hours of users using his system was good enough for me. I am
glad -- I did not trade a few bucks for added risk. YMMV.
Best wishes.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker 75 hours and still
grinning. Keep the grin. Keep the grin.
----- Original Message -----
>
> My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
> need to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
> Electronic Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but
> Jeff Rose no longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out
> the wires, I'd like to try the auto plugs.
>
> I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto plugs
> (reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
> recommendations?
>
> I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The mag
> will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower
> plugs.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
Charlie,
I have an O-320-D1A with 9:1 compression pistons. I tried using auto plugs
on the EI ignition, and had pre-ignition problems (actually melted the
center ceramic part of the plug.) I've since replaced them with REM-37BY
plugs and the problem has been eliminated.... Jeff (or now Mike) can get you
the needed hardware to make the change to your existing wires.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
Spark plugs
My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
need to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
Electronic Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but
Jeff Rose no longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change
out
the wires, I'd like to try the auto plugs.
I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto
plugs
(reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences
or
recommendations?
I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The
mag
will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower
plugs.
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
Charlie,
The plugs for the ElectroAir system are Autolite 386's (I think they were
used in older Ford Pickups or something. Advance Auto has them).
I would recommend the REM37BY aviation plugs. I have run BOTH types.
The 386's work so you can get started with them. I would **NOT** try other
plugs as I seem to recall having that same discussion with Jeff and ended up
with the 386's. There is a reason why he said stick to the 386s if I HAD to
go automotive. I just cannot recall it at the moment.
Why go 37BY's summary:
Had them in ...
Talked to Jeff who recommended staying with them but I was frustrated with
the **OLD STYLE** wiring to the plug end so I CHANGED THEM OUT to the 386's.
Jeff indicated the
possibility of some (slight) power loss. He was RIGHT in my book. Nothing
major, but I could tell.
I put the 37BY's back in. There is a better way to do the plug ends now, so
the OLD problem is solved.
Also, had a friend a few weeks ago find 2 **CRACKED** 386's in his O-360.
Engine started running really rough on the overhead (in formation) so he
pitched out. He was many miles away from home (came to perform at and
airshow nearby) and the LOCAL Advanced Auto did not have any. The good news
was that a) I had my old/new set and b) at my local Advanced Auto they DID
have some. We got a new set installed. I think he plans to switch to the
37BY's.
It's your plane. Do as you chose, Your mileage may vary. etc. etc.
James
RV6 O-320
On 11/8/05, Charlie Brame wrote:
>
>
> My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
> need to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
> Electronic Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but
> Jeff Rose no longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out
> the wires, I'd like to try the auto plugs.
>
> I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto plugs
> (reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
> recommendations?
>
> I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The mag
> will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower
> plugs.
>
> Charlie Brame
> RV-6A N11CB
> San Antonio
>
>
> ,
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Tip Comm Antennas |
Hi Bob,
Question 1.)
Bob Archer recommends the marker beacon antenna on a wingtip with the NAV
antenna, but NOT with the COM antenna.
Question 2.)
Mount the COM antenna as FAR FORWARD as possible in the wingtip.
Mount the inboard edge of the COM antenna along the bottom edge of the
wingtip.
Make a bend along the base of the COM antenna so the outboard antenna
section is in contact with the upper wingtip.
Route the NAV light, landing light and strobe light wires along the front
edge of the COM antenna with the Adel clamps provided on the antenna.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 11/02/2005 5:46:42 AM Pacific Standard Time,
bobrundle2(at)hotmail.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "bob rundle"
I'm installing the Bob Archer Comm antenna in wing tip of RV7A. I have
searched the archives but remain with a couple questions:
1. I also have a marker beacon antenna in this wing tip. Will these antennas
interfere with each other?
2. The instructions for the comm antenna indicate the position as vertically
in the top of the vertical stab. Do RV guys typically install these antenna
horizontally in the wing tip or try and make the antenna at least partically
vertical by installing it on the very outside of the wingtip?
This is my second comm so I'd not as concerned about great reception.
Thanks
BobR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Flynlow" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net> |
I would like to thank everyone for your comments. I have decided to run one
of the ElectroAir Ignitions in place of the "Shower of Sparks" and continue
to run one Bendix Mag. All of your comments are greatly appreciated.
Bud Silvers
RV8 - Finishing
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fly n Low
Subject: RV-List: Ignitions?
Hello all;
I have an IO-360-A1A currently with Bendix Mags and "Shower of Sparks"
When this engine was installed in an Acrosport II I had great difficulty
starting it. I finally did develop a process, but it was always a pain in
the .....
I am not sure if the problem was with the "Shower of Sparks" unit or with
the Mags. The Right Mag was overhauled and that did not make any difference.
Now I must decide whether to keep this ignition or to switch to ElectroAir
Electronic Ignition. I actually have both at this time. I have also
considered selling both and going to Slick Mags. I have also considered just
running one of the Bendix Mags and one of the ElectoAir Electronic
Ignitions.
While attending an engine building seminar in Kansas City a couple of months
ago the instructor indicated a strong dislike for any kind of electronic
ignition. He disliked mixing the two even more.
Ladies and Gentlemen I really need to make a decision and need to make it
now. I am ready to start wiring on my RV-8 and have other issues making this
a pressing decision.
What have your experiences been? I am looking for non prejudicial advice.
Bud Silvers
RV-8 in progress.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
I ran the 386's for a while in the RV, and found that it was not running
smooth at takeoff power, after a few hours of running them. The electrodes
were eroding, which was a sign that the plugs were not of the correct heat
range for the application (O-360). I switched to BR8ES with adapters and
have had no trouble since. I have tried the later style wire ends with the
REM37BY's which were just the little springs, a viton washer, and plumbing
B-nuts. I had various problems with the wire to plug connections and got
tired of messing with them. So I went back to the BR8ES plugs. I used to
change them when I changed oil, but stopped doing that because there was
nothing wrong with them. The current set I'm running have been on the
airplane for 2+years.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
On 11/9/05, James Clark wrote:
>
>
> Charlie,
> The plugs for the ElectroAir system are Autolite 386's (I think they were
> used in older Ford Pickups or something. Advance Auto has them).
> I would recommend the REM37BY aviation plugs. I have run BOTH types.
> The 386's work so you can get started with them. I would **NOT** try other
> plugs as I seem to recall having that same discussion with Jeff and ended
> up
> with the 386's. There is a reason why he said stick to the 386s if I HAD
> to
> go automotive. I just cannot recall it at the moment.
> Why go 37BY's summary:
> Had them in ...
> Talked to Jeff who recommended staying with them but I was frustrated with
> the **OLD STYLE** wiring to the plug end so I CHANGED THEM OUT to the
> 386's.
> Jeff indicated
> the
> possibility of some (slight) power loss. He was RIGHT in my book. Nothing
> major, but I could tell.
> I put the 37BY's back in. There is a better way to do the plug ends now,
> so
> the OLD problem is solved.
> Also, had a friend a few weeks ago find 2 **CRACKED** 386's in his O-360.
> Engine started running really rough on the overhead (in formation) so he
> pitched out. He was many miles away from home (came to perform at and
> airshow nearby) and the LOCAL Advanced Auto did not have any. The good
> news
> was that a) I had my old/new set and b) at my local Advanced Auto they DID
> have some. We got a new set installed. I think he plans to switch to the
> 37BY's.
> It's your plane. Do as you chose, Your mileage may vary. etc. etc.
> James
> RV6 O-320
>
>
> On 11/8/05, Charlie Brame wrote:
> >
> >
> > My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
> > need to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
> > Electronic Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but
> > Jeff Rose no longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out
> > the wires, I'd like to try the auto plugs.
> >
> > I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto plugs
> > (reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
> > recommendations?
> >
> > I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The mag
> > will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower
> > plugs.
> >
> > Charlie Brame
> > RV-6A N11CB
> > San Antonio
> >
> >
> > ,
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
> james(at)nextupventures.com .
>
>
> ,
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
I've had people recommend using the Autolite 386 plug if I wanted a short
18mm plug to do away with the 18-to-14mm adapters that I currently use with
my Lightspeed ignition. I've heard too many stories about spark plug
failures, in some cases causing engine damage, when using the Autolite 386.
I'm happy to continue using the NGK BR8ES (#5422) spark plugs on my IO-360.
Haven't had a single problem with 'em in nearly 700 hours. I recommend them
to anybody who is looking for an automotive spark plug for use with an EI
system on a Lycoming/clone.
I look at the new cylinders Lycoming makes with 14mm spark plug holes...to
do away with adapters and run the auto plugs directly. That's appealing,
but there's something about it that seems closed-ended. I don't mind using
the adapters in order to keep my options open. I don't suspect I'll change
much, but at least I can.
So my 2 cents is: adapters + NGK BR8ES plugs for your EI.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob J" <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Spark plugs
>
> I ran the 386's for a while in the RV, and found that it was not running
> smooth at takeoff power, after a few hours of running them. The electrodes
> were eroding, which was a sign that the plugs were not of the correct heat
> range for the application (O-360). I switched to BR8ES with adapters and
> have had no trouble since. I have tried the later style wire ends with the
> REM37BY's which were just the little springs, a viton washer, and plumbing
> B-nuts. I had various problems with the wire to plug connections and got
> tired of messing with them. So I went back to the BR8ES plugs. I used to
> change them when I changed oil, but stopped doing that because there was
> nothing wrong with them. The current set I'm running have been on the
> airplane for 2+years.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying, F1 under const.
>
> On 11/9/05, James Clark wrote:
>>
>>
>> Charlie,
>> The plugs for the ElectroAir system are Autolite 386's (I think they were
>> used in older Ford Pickups or something. Advance Auto has them).
>> I would recommend the REM37BY aviation plugs. I have run BOTH types.
>> The 386's work so you can get started with them. I would **NOT** try
>> other
>> plugs as I seem to recall having that same discussion with Jeff and ended
>> up
>> with the 386's. There is a reason why he said stick to the 386s if I HAD
>> to
>> go automotive. I just cannot recall it at the moment.
>> Why go 37BY's summary:
>> Had them in ...
>> Talked to Jeff who recommended staying with them but I was frustrated
>> with
>> the **OLD STYLE** wiring to the plug end so I CHANGED THEM OUT to the
>> 386's.
>> Jeff indicated
>> the
>> possibility of some (slight) power loss. He was RIGHT in my book. Nothing
>> major, but I could tell.
>> I put the 37BY's back in. There is a better way to do the plug ends now,
>> so
>> the OLD problem is solved.
>> Also, had a friend a few weeks ago find 2 **CRACKED** 386's in his O-360.
>> Engine started running really rough on the overhead (in formation) so he
>> pitched out. He was many miles away from home (came to perform at and
>> airshow nearby) and the LOCAL Advanced Auto did not have any. The good
>> news
>> was that a) I had my old/new set and b) at my local Advanced Auto they
>> DID
>> have some. We got a new set installed. I think he plans to switch to the
>> 37BY's.
>> It's your plane. Do as you chose, Your mileage may vary. etc. etc.
>> James
>> RV6 O-320
>>
>>
>> On 11/8/05, Charlie Brame wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > My slow built RV-6A quick build is approaching its first engine run. I
>> > need to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
>> > Electronic Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but
>> > Jeff Rose no longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out
>> > the wires, I'd like to try the auto plugs.
>> >
>> > I am also looking for recommendations for using modified 18mm auto
>> > plugs
>> > (reshaped shoulders) versus 14mm plugs with inserts. Any preferences or
>> > recommendations?
>> >
>> > I have an IO-320, 160 hp version with one EI system and one mag. The
>> > mag
>> > will fire regular aviation plugs on top. The EI will fire the lower
>> > plugs.
>> >
>> > Charlie Brame
>> > RV-6A N11CB
>> > San Antonio
>> >
>> >
>> > ,
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>> --
>> This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
>> james(at)nextupventures.com .
>>
>>
>> ,
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)AOL.COM |
| Subject: | First Engine Run |
Speaking of first engine run... One of Van's guys told me that it might be
unwise to run the enigne without wings attached. Allegedly can cause airframe
damage. Archives didn't help, so any and all experiences/opinions/advice more
than welcome. My -6a is still in the garage, but engine is ready, so would
kind of like to run her out to the driveway and crank it up...
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
<>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
> I look at the new cylinders Lycoming makes with 14mm spark plug
holes...to
do away with adapters and run the auto plugs directly. That's
appealing,
but there's something about it that seems closed-ended. I don't mind
using
the adapters in order to keep my options open. I don't suspect I'll
change
much, but at least I can.
So my 2 cents is: adapters + NGK BR8ES plugs for your EI.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
Just so you know, the new Lycoming cylinders with 14mm holes are merely
using helicoils to bring the size down from the standard 18mm. Otherwise
the cylinders are stock.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
You are correct. You want the wings attached, and Prop attached. The
Lycoming and that type engines will do a bit of shaking.
Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: First Engine Run
>
>
> Speaking of first engine run... One of Van's guys told me that it might
> be
> unwise to run the enigne without wings attached. Allegedly can cause
> airframe
> damage. Archives didn't help, so any and all experiences/opinions/advice
> more
> than welcome. My -6a is still in the garage, but engine is ready, so would
> kind of like to run her out to the driveway and crank it up...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
> < to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
> Electronic
> Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but Jeff Rose no
> longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out the wires, I'd
> like to try the auto plugs.>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
I had no problems at all. Are there different sized plugs in different
sumps? Maybe there is a spec called out in the Lyc overhaul/parts manual.
Is the part number on the Fumoto? Maybe it was mis-packaged or something?
Sorry it's not working for you....
-
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lucky [mailto:luckymacy(at)comcast.net]
> Sent: Wednesday, November 09, 2005 11:51 AM
> To: RV yahoo; rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: fumoto T202N
>
>
> Larry and Brian,
>
> Did you have a problem initially threading the T202N on?
>
> I purchased the T202N. I couldn't use it because in my IO
> 360 a1b6d installation because there's not enough clearance
> between the drain handle and an air intake pipe to thread the
> darn thing on. So I traded with another RVer for his spare
> aeroequip quick drain. He ended up not wanting it because it
> didn't appear to be a true pipe thread and it was also
> slightly over .5 inch diameter. He didn't even bother to try
> and thread it on.
>
> When you compare it to the standard plug, there was no taper
> to the 202Ns threads. It was constant diameter all the to
> the first thread. Did anyone else notice that? I got it
> back and might be able to get the camera to take a good side
> by side picture next to a standard plug for comparison.
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
>
> >
> > I recently switched to the Fumoto T202N quick drain. Very stout and
> > zero leaks.
> >
> > http://google.com/search?q=Fumoto+T202N
> >
> > --
> > Larry Bowen
> > Larry(at)BowenAero.com
> > http://BowenAero.com
> >
> >
> > lucky wrote:
> > >
> > > http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html
> > >
> > > Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or
> any quick
> > > oil drain
> > valves. The price on this one seems too good to be true but I'm not
> > sure price is a good indicator here.
> > >
> > > thx,
> > > lucky
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.skygeek.com/oildrvaly12n.html
> > >
> > > Anyone have any positive or negative feedback on this or
> any quick
> > > oil drain
> > valves. The price on this one seems too good to be
> truebutI'm not sure
> > price is a good indicator here.
> > >
> > > thx,
> > > lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Question for the list:
Is installing a wing leveler/autopilot a "major alteration" per section
21.93? The verbiage doesn't give any examples of what minor or major
changes might be.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
Don't start it without the wings on, it will shake like a wet dog. Mine
shook so bad that one side of the slider came out and gouged the side of
the airplane (new paint!). It wouldn't surprise me that it could cause
airframe damage.
Dave
Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
>Speaking of first engine run... One of Van's guys told me that it might be
>unwise to run the enigne without wings attached. Allegedly can cause airframe
>damage. Archives didn't help, so any and all experiences/opinions/advice more
>than welcome. My -6a is still in the garage, but engine is ready, so would
>kind of like to run her out to the driveway and crank it up...
>
>Jerry Cochran
>Wilsonville, OR
>
><to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose Electronic
>Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but Jeff Rose no
>longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out the wires, I'd
>like to try the auto plugs.>>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Newhall <RV-6(at)comcast.net> |
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/STERBA-WOOD-AIRPLANE-PROPELLER-PROP_W0QQitemZ4587833710QQcategoryZ26439QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
I don't know how the FAA applies that FAR to amateur built aircraft. For
certified aircraft the definition is in Part 43 Appendix A, and such an
install is most definitely major, and not likely to be approved without an
STC.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: RV-List: Major/minor
Question for the list:
Is installing a wing leveler/autopilot a "major alteration" per section
21.93? The verbiage doesn't give any examples of what minor or major
changes might be.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question about torquing bolts |
From: Dan Charrois <danlist(at)syz.com>
Subject: Question about torquing bolts
>Hi everyone. I have a question about torquing bolts properly.
>I'm under the impression that the proper torque of a bolt should be
>the torque exerted to tighten the nut beyond the normal friction
>between the nut and the bolt (correct me if I'm wrong). For non-stop
>nuts that exhibit very little friction with their bolt, it's likely
>not a significant difference. But for stop nuts (with the nylon
>insert), this additional friction is somewhat significant.
As you point out, if you took a sensitive IN-LB torque wrench and
measure the force to turn the nut before seating, just spinning on
the threads, you would find the force is small.
>My torque wrench is the kind that clicks when it reaches the torque
>set (it doesn't have a meter on which you can directly read the
>torque being exerted). And it isn't sensitive enough to measure the
>relatively small amount of torque required to overcome the friction
>with the nylon insert. So I rigged up a simple test using a postal
>scale and a wrench of known length. I came up with a calculated
>torque of 6.1 inch-pounds required to overcome the nylon friction of
>a stop nut tightened on an AN3 bolt. Though the math should be
>simple, I just wanted to check if the rest of you who have been there
>already consider this to be reasonable.
Good for you and the clever experiment. I would not change you the
torque that much. May be tighten to the high end and hold the torque
wrench force for a few seconds after reaching the torque. You are
right, the click type are not sensitve. IN fact unless you calabrate
it could be way off. For small bolts I like a beam type torque wrench.
Also there is the static torque and dynamic friction which is much
less.
>If I recall correctly, Van's lists the AN3 bolts as having a torque
>of 20-25 inch pounds. So I'm assuming that with these calculations,
>in tightening a stop nut onto an AN3 bolt, I should be selecting
>26-31 inch pounds to account for the friction with the nylon insert.
>Does this sound reasonable?
You bring up a good point, but I would not worry too much or over
torque. USE THE GERMAN TORQUE METHOD: "Gooo-tin tight"
(said with German accent).
>Since the AN3 bolts have such a low torque setting by feel of what
>I've been using with bolts in the past, I wanted to make sure that
>I'm not under-torquing..
Very few people under torque anything unless they just plan forgot
to tighten it in the first place. Torque is not an exact science in
that many factors can cause actual torque and indicated torque to
vary. For example if you have lubed threads. Just handling the
threads and getting oils from your skin on the threads can cause the
actual torque to be much higher than with dry threads. Also for small
bolts and torques I would check your torque wrench. Dis-use can cause
it to go out of Cal. Torque wrenches used in industrial applications
are calabrated often.
>Thanks for your advice!
>Dan
--
>Syzygy Research & Technology
>Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
>Phone: 780-961-2213
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
The guy at Van's knows what he is talking about. Run it w/o wings at your
peril.
Dick RV6A comp. 2002
At 01:19 PM 11/9/2005, you wrote:
>
>
>Speaking of first engine run... One of Van's guys told me that it might be
>unwise to run the enigne without wings attached. Allegedly can cause
>airframe
>damage. Archives didn't help, so any and all experiences/opinions/advice
>more
>than welcome. My -6a is still in the garage, but engine is ready, so would
>kind of like to run her out to the driveway and crank it up...
>
>Jerry Cochran
>Wilsonville, OR
>
><to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose Electronic
>Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but Jeff Rose no
>longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out the wires, I'd
>like to try the auto plugs.>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Dominy" <abqmooney(at)excite.com> |
Please unsubscribe me from the RV list.--- On Thu 11/10, Matt Dralle dralle(at)matronics.com
wrote:
From: Matt Dralle [mailto: dralle(at)matronics.com]To: dralle(at)matronics.comDate: Thu, 10 Nov 2005 00:10:00 -0800Subject: RV-List: LOC...-- RV-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hi Listers,Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists.Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription!Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC? Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RVer273sb(at)AOL.COM |
Consider it a major change as it modifies the aircraft
control system. If you have the newest OPS LIM all you
have to do is notify the fisdo and fly off the 10 hrs.
Keeps your insurance in effect also.
Stewart RV4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
I built a Rocket and waited til the wings were on to run it ala Van's
recommendation. However, my neighbor built a Rocket and ran his engine
without wings numerous times with no ill effects (over 200 hrs to date). I
wouldn't do it but it's been done. My feeling is: what's the hurry - you
can't fly it til the wings are on anyway and you will have to spend the same
amount of time regardless of which way you go.
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: First Engine Run |
Hi Jerry,
On start-up and shut-down the engine can shake the fuse hard enough to cause
deformation. I've seen pictures of bent metal. That said, many people have
run their engines in RVs with the wings off and gotten away with it...
I would personally be hesitant to do it for a couple of reasons. The first
is the concern about the possibility of doing damage to the fuse. The
second is that I assume your engine is preserved for long term storage?
Maybe not since you say it's "ready". I would wait until just about being
ready to fly to take it out of storage. Who knows what might delay your
first flight. It would be better for the engine if it was not run and then
let sit. If you are determined to run it with the wings off you might
consider making up a couple of 2X6 stub spars as long as your space will
permit and support them to dampen the shaking or twisting of the fuse.
Oh, really tie the tail to something substantial, and make sure that the
tail can not lift! It would be a sad sight to see the prop on a zero time
engine smack the ground, something that has happened more then once. There
is a famous case of somebody rushing to get done right before Oshkosh who
trashed a new constant speed prop and did substantial damage to their new
engine when the tail came up and the prop hit the runway. They didn't have
insurance to cover that would cover it either.
Good luck!
Dave
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: First Engine Run
>
>
> Speaking of first engine run... One of Van's guys told me that it might
be
> unwise to run the enigne without wings attached. Allegedly can cause
airframe
> damage. Archives didn't help, so any and all experiences/opinions/advice
more
> than welcome. My -6a is still in the garage, but engine is ready, so would
> kind of like to run her out to the driveway and crank it up...
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
> < to know what auto plugs are recommended for use with a Jeff Rose
Electronic
> Ignition. My EI came with wiring for auto spark plugs, but Jeff Rose no
> longer recommends using auto plugs. Rather than change out the wires, I'd
> like to try the auto plugs.>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | KIMSEYCO(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | any body needing spare cylinders ?? |
i have 2 angle valve cylinders with new valve seats and new valve guides,
chrome for sale to who ever needs them. i think they call them stud cyls without
pistons and no valves other wise overhauled. if you need the part numbers i
will look them up and let you know or send some good digital pics. If you are
not satisified with them for any reason send them back and i will send your
money back,you pay shipping both ways . price $300 each certified check prefered
or money order... first come first served-- good deal
thomas kimsey near Macon Ga 478-922-1428 kimseyco(at)aol.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
FAR 43 App A defines what a major alteration is. In this case the
installation of a auto pilot is a major because it is connected to the
flight controls. How to go about it is covered by the Operating Limitations
issued to the airpalne at the time of certification. Follow those
instructions and you won't go wrong.
Mike Robertson
Das Fed
>From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: Major/minor
>Date: Wed, 9 Nov 2005 18:24:41 -0800
>
>
>Question for the list:
>
>Is installing a wing leveler/autopilot a "major alteration" per section
>21.93? The verbiage doesn't give any examples of what minor or major
>changes might be.
>
>Pax,
>
>Ed Holyoke
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: fumoto T202N |
In a message dated 11/9/2005 8:54:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:
I purchased the T202N. I couldn't use it because in my IO 360 a1b6d
installation because there's not enough clearance between the drain handle and
an
air intake pipe to thread the darn thing on. So I traded with another RVer
for his spare aeroequip quick drain. He ended up not wanting it because it
didn't appear to be a true pipe thread and it was also slightly over .5 inch
diameter. He didn't even bother to try and thread it on.
When you compare it to the standard plug, there was no taper to the 202Ns
threads. It was constant diameter all the to the first thread. Did anyone
else notice that?
===============================
Then you must have received a mis-marked one from Fumoto. The threads on
mine (circa 1997) are clearly national pipe threads (tapered) and the valve
body tightened perfectly in the Lycoming sump.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | ECI's new injection system |
ECI is coming out with a new fuel injection system which is more like
the Continental setup than the Bendix. Check it out here:
http://www.eci2fly.com/pages/products_kitengineexp.aspx#qanda
interesting. Good to have more options.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan Charrois <danlist(at)syz.com> |
| Subject: | Riveting in dimpled skins |
Hi there. I asked a somewhat related question a little while ago and
got a great response from this list, but I'm still a bit unsure on
something. Please feel free to let me know if I'm being a bit
overzealous and shouldn't worry about this sort of thing.
As you probably all know, creating a dimple in a skin enlarges the
hole. An AN476AD3 rivet that would otherwise fit in a #40 hole nice
and snugly rattles around quite loosely when the hole has been dimpled.
My concern is having enough of a shop head on the end of the rivet
when set in two sheets that are both dimpled. I'm using the rivet
lengths as suggested by Van's (AN476AD3-3.5), which would make a nice
shop head if there weren't the enlarged hole in the dimple. But I'm
finding that the shop head isn't as large as I'd like, since:
1 - on setting, the rivet expands a bit more to fill the enlarged
hole, making the amount of material available for a shop head
somewhat less than if the hole fit more snugly.
2 - a larger shop head is needed to cover the enlarged hole
comfortably than if the hole weren't enlarged.
In particular, I'm finding that if a rivet bends even slightly while
being set (even if the tail moves 1/64 of an inch or so off
vertical), the shop head doesn't appear to completely cover the
enlarged hole (at least, with any kind of overlap - it's not that I
can see through to the other side, but one edge of the shop head
seems to my eye to be lined up pretty evenly with the side of the
hole). And it's all too easy to have a slightly bent rivet with it
rattling around loosely in the enlarged dimple hole when I'm trying
to set it. I've tried the trick with a rubber washer on the shop
end, and though it seems to help somewhat, some rivets still don't
seem to cover the hole all the way around with a comfortable (at
least to me) overlap. It's most obvious when viewing the head from
the side, as on one side, the raised skin of the dimple rises up
significantly higher before meeting the shop head than on the other
side.
Is this a common problem, or am I just being too particular? There
doesn't seem to be a way of creating the dimple without enlarging the
central hole, as after all, the aluminum just stretches when making
the dimple. Drilling the hole smaller wouldn't help, since the
dimple die's central pin would enlarge it to a #40 anyway. It seems
the ideal situation would be to use rivets a bit larger in diameter,
but that's not what the plans call for (and such rivets doubtless
don't exist anyway, unless going all the way to an "oops" rivet size,
which is definitely overkill).
A longer rivet wouldn't help, since it's tough enough to keep them
relatively unbent as it is.
What seems to be an ideal solution would be to drill a somewhat
smaller hole (like #43 or something) and use a dimple die with a
similarly sized central pin, which would then enlarge the rivet by
the dimpling process to an end size of #40. But I doubt that such
dimple dies exist, and that just doesn't seem to be the "way it's
done" anyway.
Since I can't imagine how anyone wouldn't have this problem, and the
plans don't call for anything special to be done, I'm left to
conclude that I'm just probably being overcautious. I guess I can
have some consolation that rivets aren't intended for tension forces,
but rather shear forces, which shouldn't be as affected by the rivet
shop head not having a significant overlap over the dimpled hole.
That, plus the fact that Vans tends to overengineer their planes so
if the odd rivet popped its shop head out through the skin it
wouldn't be a catastrophic problem.
I'm just curious as to what others' thoughts are on this, not that I
know what could be done about it anyway (of course, if I'm missing
something obvious, please let me know!). I know that some may say to
stop overengineering and just do what Van's instructions call for.
But I'm the sort of guy that likes to know *why* something is okay
instead of just accepting it because "that's the way it's done".
Dan
--
Syzygy Research & Technology
Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
Phone: 780-961-2213
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Porter" <december29(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting in dimpled skins |
Dan,
I wonder if you are deburring your holes too much. Yes, the hole is
larger after dimpling but not so much that the correct set rivet doesn't
"fill" the hole. If you deburr too long it's like using a machine
countersink on the hole before you dimple. This can make the hole way too
big. (ask me how I know, ha,ha)
I just gave each hole about two light turns when deburring. This might be
the problem.
Later,
John
#80002 (I'm getting there, really)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting in dimpled skins |
Dan Charrois wrote:
>
>Hi there. I asked a somewhat related question a little while ago and
>got a great response from this list, but I'm still a bit unsure on
>something. Please feel free to let me know if I'm being a bit
>overzealous and shouldn't worry about this sort of thing.
>
>As you probably all know, creating a dimple in a skin enlarges the
>hole. An AN476AD3 rivet that would otherwise fit in a #40 hole nice
>and snugly rattles around quite loosely when the hole has been dimpled.
>
>My concern is having enough of a shop head on the end of the rivet
>when set in two sheets that are both dimpled. I'm using the rivet
>lengths as suggested by Van's (AN476AD3-3.5), which would make a nice
>shop head if there weren't the enlarged hole in the dimple. But I'm
>finding that the shop head isn't as large as I'd like, since:
>
>1 - on setting, the rivet expands a bit more to fill the enlarged
>hole, making the amount of material available for a shop head
>somewhat less than if the hole fit more snugly.
>2 - a larger shop head is needed to cover the enlarged hole
>comfortably than if the hole weren't enlarged.
>
>In particular, I'm finding that if a rivet bends even slightly while
>being set (even if the tail moves 1/64 of an inch or so off
>vertical), the shop head doesn't appear to completely cover the
>enlarged hole (at least, with any kind of overlap - it's not that I
>can see through to the other side, but one edge of the shop head
>seems to my eye to be lined up pretty evenly with the side of the
>hole). And it's all too easy to have a slightly bent rivet with it
>rattling around loosely in the enlarged dimple hole when I'm trying
>to set it. I've tried the trick with a rubber washer on the shop
>end, and though it seems to help somewhat, some rivets still don't
>seem to cover the hole all the way around with a comfortable (at
>least to me) overlap. It's most obvious when viewing the head from
>the side, as on one side, the raised skin of the dimple rises up
>significantly higher before meeting the shop head than on the other
>side.
>
>Is this a common problem, or am I just being too particular? There
>doesn't seem to be a way of creating the dimple without enlarging the
>central hole, as after all, the aluminum just stretches when making
>the dimple. Drilling the hole smaller wouldn't help, since the
>dimple die's central pin would enlarge it to a #40 anyway. It seems
>the ideal situation would be to use rivets a bit larger in diameter,
>but that's not what the plans call for (and such rivets doubtless
>don't exist anyway, unless going all the way to an "oops" rivet size,
>which is definitely overkill).
>
>A longer rivet wouldn't help, since it's tough enough to keep them
>relatively unbent as it is.
>
>What seems to be an ideal solution would be to drill a somewhat
>smaller hole (like #43 or something) and use a dimple die with a
>similarly sized central pin, which would then enlarge the rivet by
>the dimpling process to an end size of #40. But I doubt that such
>dimple dies exist, and that just doesn't seem to be the "way it's
>done" anyway.
>
>Since I can't imagine how anyone wouldn't have this problem, and the
>plans don't call for anything special to be done, I'm left to
>conclude that I'm just probably being overcautious. I guess I can
>have some consolation that rivets aren't intended for tension forces,
>but rather shear forces, which shouldn't be as affected by the rivet
>shop head not having a significant overlap over the dimpled hole.
>That, plus the fact that Vans tends to overengineer their planes so
>if the odd rivet popped its shop head out through the skin it
>wouldn't be a catastrophic problem.
>
>I'm just curious as to what others' thoughts are on this, not that I
>know what could be done about it anyway (of course, if I'm missing
>something obvious, please let me know!). I know that some may say to
>stop overengineering and just do what Van's instructions call for.
>But I'm the sort of guy that likes to know *why* something is okay
>instead of just accepting it because "that's the way it's done".
>
>Dan
>--
>Syzygy Research & Technology
>Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada
>Phone: 780-961-2213
>
Your evaluation of the problem is spot-on. You can find hundreds of
messages in the archives emotionally championing various positions on
the subject. The only technique I've seen that doesn't provoke a strong
emotional negative response is to start with a longer rivet &
'presqueeze' it slightly in a hand squeezer to fatten the shank of the
rivet. The technique works, but is very time consuming & it's a pain to
do the presqueezing & get exactly the right amount of fattening without
tipping the shank on the head.
Enjoy....
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting in dimpled skins |
I just want to expand on the deburring. The correct way to deburr is to
lightly turn the tool just enough to smooth out the protruding metal and not
start countersinking. If you notice a countersink, you have probably used
too much pressure or turned the tool too many times, or both. You want to go
just enough to feel a smooth skin when you run you hand over the holes. I
hope this helps.
Mike
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Porter" <december29(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Riveting in dimpled skins
>
> Dan,
> I wonder if you are deburring your holes too much. Yes, the hole is
> larger after dimpling but not so much that the correct set rivet doesn't
> "fill" the hole. If you deburr too long it's like using a machine
> countersink on the hole before you dimple. This can make the hole way too
> big. (ask me how I know, ha,ha)
> I just gave each hole about two light turns when deburring. This might
> be
> the problem.
>
> Later,
>
> John
> #80002 (I'm getting there, really)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
I got around to trying it for the 1st time today, & sure enough, MS71
isn't found. I then clicked on the 'help' tab and at around a half hour
or so, I'm still waiting for the 'help' file to load (around 17 megs, so
far).
Not exactly 'real time' for those of us stuck with dialup....
Does anyone know if they only include airports for jet jockeys?
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
>I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
>AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
Perhaps because it is private and seems not to be even a US airport:
Slobovia Outernational Airport
Pocahontas, Mississippi, USA
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Ron Lee wrote:
>
>
>
>
>>I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
>>AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
>>
>>
>
>Perhaps because it is private and seems not to be even a US airport:
>
>Slobovia Outernational Airport
>Pocahontas, Mississippi, USA
>
>Ron Lee
>
Well, we did try to secede a while back, but it seems that the Union
just couldn't survive without us.
'Private' doesn't mean 'outside the US'.
A flight planner that ignores private airports won't allow much planning.
Ahh, well... I guess their lobbying efforts are worth the membership cost.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Does anyone know if they only include airports for jet jockeys?
Charlie
The program was probably written by a canard guy :-)
Rusty
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Charlie England wrote:
>
> Ron Lee wrote:
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
>>>AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>Perhaps because it is private and seems not to be even a US airport:
>>
>>Slobovia Outernational Airport
>>Pocahontas, Mississippi, USA
>>
>>Ron Lee
>>
>
> Well, we did try to secede a while back, but it seems that the Union
> just couldn't survive without us.
>
> 'Private' doesn't mean 'outside the US'.
>
> A flight planner that ignores private airports won't allow much planning.
>
> Ahh, well... I guess their lobbying efforts are worth the membership cost.
>
> Charlie
Charlie, if it makes you feel any better, Aeroplanner.com's EAA flight
planner knows where Slobovia Outernational is located. :-)
Seceding might still be a good idea, however.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: stainless steel hole cutter |
| From: | Larry Mac Donald <lm4(at)juno.com> |
Mickey,
You might try running a two inch hole saw thru
the part and then fly-cutting the edge of the hole !
Larry Mac Donald
Rochester N.Y.
Do not achcive
writes:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm trying to cut about a 2" hole in about 1/8"
> stainless steel, and found out that my trusty
> fly cutter, which works so well on aluminum, has
> a very hard time with SS. I was turning the
> thing very slowly, with lots of oil and pressure,
> but no dice.
>
> On Monday I'll probably take it to a machine
> shop, but I was curious if there are any tips
> or tricks that I'm missing.
>
> BTW, this will be for a firewall penetration
> seal.
>
> Thanks,
> Mickey
> --
> Mickey Coggins
> http://www.rv8.ch/
> #82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: stainless steel hole cutter |
>I'm trying to cut about a 2" hole in about 1/8"
>stainless steel, and found out that my trusty
>fly cutter, which works so well on aluminum, has
>a very hard time with SS. I was turning the
>thing very slowly, with lots of oil and pressure,
>but no dice.
On my firewall I have used a metal hole saw cutter. It chucks into a drill
and you must buy the exact size for the hole you want. It works as well as
any other technique for stainless. But, nothing is easy when it comes to
cutting stainless steel, or any steel for that matter.
Bob
RV6 NightFigher
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Trainnut01(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Charlie
I have the same problem with my home airport. My solution is to enter a
nearby airport that the flight planner does recognize, then I open the en route
map, drag and drop the end of the course line on the airport that I want and
the program will recalculate the complete flight correctly. Some times you
will have to zoom in to get smaller airports to show and if your airport is
"unverified" it will not show at all.
Carroll Jernigan
RV7A Finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Riveting in dimpled skins |
On 7:05:37 2005-11-12 "wskimike" wrote:
> I just want to expand on the deburring. The correct way to deburr is
> to lightly turn the tool just enough to smooth out the protruding
> metal and not start countersinking. If you notice a countersink, you
> have probably used too much pressure or turned the tool too many
> times, or both. You want to go just enough to feel a smooth skin when
> you run you hand over the holes. I hope this helps.
For what it's worth, I overheard one of Vans' employees at Arlington last
year talking about deburring... He says they deburr skins with a
scotchbrite pad. Just run it back and forth along the line of holes a
couple of times, and then do a quick visual check that no material is
trapped in the holes. It seems to work quite well, and almost guarantees
you won't get any unwanted or inadvertent countersinking.
Of course, this may not be an ideal method if you plan on polishing your
skins instead of painting...
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | [ Steve Irving ] : New Email List Photo Share Available! |
| From: | Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com> |
A new Email List Photo Share is available:
Poster: Steve Irving
Lists: RV-List,Rocket-List
Subject: New Harmon Rocket 1
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/vwbugin@sbcglobal.net.11.12.2005/index.html
o Main Photo Share Index
http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
o Submitting a Photo Share
If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the
following information along with your email message and files:
1) Email List or Lists that they are related to:
2) Your Full Name:
3) Your Email Address:
4) One line Subject description:
5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic:
6) One-line Description of each photo or file:
Email the information above and your files and photos to:
pictures(at)matronics.com
________________________________________________________________________________
vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com, OhioValleyRVators(at)yahoogroups.com,
ExperimentalAvionics(at)yahoogroups.com.INNOCENT.GLOBAL.0.0000.1.0000.-4.4912
Looking to make a cowl flap that I can operate from the cockpit for my RV-4.
Does anyone have any pictures or plan I might look at? I have my oil cooler
blocked with aluminum tape and also restricted the cowl inlets approximately
one third. Finally got my oil heated up to 185 F. Without the cowl inlets
restricted, can only get about 120 F on the oil. Not sure whether to restrict
the inlet or outlet flow. Any advice? Thanks in advance.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)AOL.COM |
Pat;
Does your engine have a Vernatherm valve in the oil system ? If so it may
be sticking in the open position; this allows the oil to circulate through the
cooler all the time. The Vernatherm valve allows oil through the cooler
only when the temperature reaches a certain point.
You can remove the Vernatherm valve and submerse it in a can of automatic
transmission fluid , heated with a propane torch. You can put a candy
thermometer in the can to keep track of the temperature up to 400 - 500 degrees.
BE
CAREFUL !! That is HOT !!
You can see if the valve moves and what temperature it reaches when it
moves.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Newhall <RV-6(at)comcast.net> |
Lately my GPS seem to have a problem picking up the satellites.
It's been taking longer to get a good lock and a couple of times it
dropped the signal in flight.
Today I was about 10 minutes into the flight before it got a good signal
than after about another 10 minutes it lost it.
This is Garmin GPS 150 panel mount about 10 years old.
I'm thinking either the antenna connections or the antenna itself. Do
the antennas go bad?
Any Ideas on how to check it would help.
Bud Newhall
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn walters <lwalters2(at)cfl.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS problems |
Bud, you might look for ignition noise as the culprit.
Turn on the GPS and let it stabilize. Check the time in the GPS too,
as correct date/time helps the unit acquire satellites faster. If the
date/time is wrong, it'll be looking for satellites that may be over the
horizon .... and not receivable. If you get a good lock and it stays
that way for 1/2 hour (you may need to hook up a battery charger to
prevent running down the battery) on the ground, start the engine and
see if it loses lock like it did before.
Linn
Bud Newhall wrote:
>
>Lately my GPS seem to have a problem picking up the satellites.
>It's been taking longer to get a good lock and a couple of times it
>dropped the signal in flight.
>Today I was about 10 minutes into the flight before it got a good signal
>than after about another 10 minutes it lost it.
>This is Garmin GPS 150 panel mount about 10 years old.
>I'm thinking either the antenna connections or the antenna itself. Do
>the antennas go bad?
>Any Ideas on how to check it would help.
>
>Bud Newhall
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS problems |
Bud Newhall wrote:
>
>Lately my GPS seem to have a problem picking up the satellites.
>It's been taking longer to get a good lock and a couple of times it
>dropped the signal in flight.
>Today I was about 10 minutes into the flight before it got a good signal
>than after about another 10 minutes it lost it.
>This is Garmin GPS 150 panel mount about 10 years old.
>I'm thinking either the antenna connections or the antenna itself. Do
>the antennas go bad?
>Any Ideas on how to check it would help.
>
>Bud Newhall
>
>
>
>
10 years old means the internal battery is most likely dead.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS problems |
There have been references to the internal battery. That may be the case,
BUT, I seem to recal some time ago there was a change in the satellite
datastream and all older GPS's needed to be updated. Don't know if this is
the case with yours but something to consider **IF** it is not a battery
problem.
James
On 11/12/05, Bud Newhall wrote:
>
>
> Lately my GPS seem to have a problem picking up the satellites.
> It's been taking longer to get a good lock and a couple of times it
> dropped the signal in flight.
> Today I was about 10 minutes into the flight before it got a good signal
> than after about another 10 minutes it lost it.
> This is Garmin GPS 150 panel mount about 10 years old.
> I'm thinking either the antenna connections or the antenna itself. Do
> the antennas go bad?
> Any Ideas on how to check it would help.
>
> Bud Newhall
>
>
> ,
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Try Golden Eagle Flight Prep
http://www.flightprep.com/rootpage.php?page=infogoldeneagle
Yes, it has all the "private" airports.
Its free and can be downloaded to be used off line. After deciding on
your route, it will connect to csc duats for the briefing.
I pay $29 a year for 56 day database updates because I have a very
sloooooooow modem.
Richard Reynolds
Norfolk, VA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Hmmmmm
Worked for me!!! (AOPA RTFP)
Seems that MS71 is on the 258 or 159 degree radial of the JACKSON VOR,
Southeast of the OCARO intersection.
It even knows it as Slobovia Outernational, 1 mile N or Pocahontas.
James
On 11/12/05, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
> AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
>
> I got around to trying it for the 1st time today, & sure enough, MS71
> isn't found. I then clicked on the 'help' tab and at around a half hour
> or so, I'm still waiting for the 'help' file to load (around 17 megs, so
> far).
>
> Not exactly 'real time' for those of us stuck with dialup....
>
> Does anyone know if they only include airports for jet jockeys?
>
> Charlie
>
>
> ,
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
| Subject: | Dynon Failure Mode |
Greetings:
When I was evaluating the Dynon D-10A for purchase I decided that one thing
that made it compelling was the failure modes. The mechanical gyro
instruments tend to fail in a way that makes them dangerous. If a vacuum
pump fails, the instruments slowly give worse and worse information. I had
worn mechanical gyro instruments that were inconsistent, sometimes working
fine and sometimes giving erroneous readings. I figured the Dynon would
either work or not. I was wrong.
Today, after takeoff, I noticed the Dynon was not right, first because zero
rate of climb was indicated when I was climbing about 1,500 fpm. Then I
noticed more and more problems. The indicated altitude was about 27,000
feet and the airspeed was about 410 knots. My RV-6 is a high performance
airplane, but not that high performance. I turned the instrument off and on
several times. Nothing helped. The heading seemed roughly correct but was
not stable and hunted through several tens of degrees. The attitude
indicator was sometimes about right and other times drifted to completely
wrong attitudes.
All in all, this is disturbing to me. Guess I will contact Dyon on Monday
for advice and I am hoping I can just reinstall system software or
something.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS problems |
I have a GPS-150 in a Cessna 170 since 1993 (+ or -) which I flew until
November 2004 when I started flying my RV6. That GPS had a dead internal
battery and all I had at start up was a message saying "Battery Requires
Service" and my user waypoints would be lost. It still functioned normal
in all respects with the Garmin database chip (Jeppeson data) and all those
fixes worked fine meaning I had no reason to replace the battery. Garmin
wants a flat rate $250 to replace the battery and will not supply dealers
with parts as they did a few years ago. I prefer to just fly the RV6 with
a new Garmin GNC300XL so this unit now sits.
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD
97 hours
> [Original Message]
> From: James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>
> To:
> Date: 11/12/2005 8:51:44 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS problems
>
>
> There have been references to the internal battery. That may be the case,
> BUT, I seem to recal some time ago there was a change in the satellite
> datastream and all older GPS's needed to be updated. Don't know if this is
> the case with yours but something to consider **IF** it is not a battery
> problem.
>
> James
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS problems |
Dick DeCramer wrote:
>
>I have a GPS-150 in a Cessna 170 since 1993 (+ or -) which I flew until
>November 2004 when I started flying my RV6. That GPS had a dead internal
>battery and all I had at start up was a message saying "Battery Requires
>Service" and my user waypoints would be lost. It still functioned normal
>in all respects with the Garmin database chip (Jeppeson data) and all those
>fixes worked fine meaning I had no reason to replace the battery. Garmin
>wants a flat rate $250 to replace the battery and will not supply dealers
>with parts as they did a few years ago. I prefer to just fly the RV6 with
>a new Garmin GNC300XL so this unit now sits.
>
>Dick DeCramer
>RV6 N500DD
>97 hours
>
>
>
>
>>[Original Message]
>>From: James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>
>>To:
>>Date: 11/12/2005 8:51:44 PM
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: GPS problems
>>
>>
>>There have been references to the internal battery. That may be the case,
>>BUT, I seem to recal some time ago there was a change in the satellite
>>datastream and all older GPS's needed to be updated. Don't know if this is
>>the case with yours but something to consider **IF** it is not a battery
>>problem.
>>
>>James
>>
>>
>>
>>
Your right Garmin wants way to much money to replace a battery, when
mine went dead in my panel mounted
FlyBuddy I opened it up and found the battery, (they are the soldered in
type) and got the number off of it and
found a place on the internet that sold that type of battery. It was
pretty easy to unsolder and solder in the new battery.
Has been working great since with no loss of signal. The way Bud
described his problem sounds just exactely like what my
FlyBuddy was doing.
Jerry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Thats why I have 2 backups, vacuum gyro and autopilot.
This stuff is experimental for a reason.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
235 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: RV-List: Dynon Failure Mode
>
> Greetings:
>
> When I was evaluating the Dynon D-10A for purchase I decided that one
> thing
> that made it compelling was the failure modes. The mechanical gyro
> instruments tend to fail in a way that makes them dangerous. If a vacuum
> pump fails, the instruments slowly give worse and worse information. I
> had
> worn mechanical gyro instruments that were inconsistent, sometimes working
> fine and sometimes giving erroneous readings. I figured the Dynon would
> either work or not. I was wrong.
>
> Today, after takeoff, I noticed the Dynon was not right, first because
> zero
> rate of climb was indicated when I was climbing about 1,500 fpm. Then I
> noticed more and more problems. The indicated altitude was about 27,000
> feet and the airspeed was about 410 knots. My RV-6 is a high performance
> airplane, but not that high performance. I turned the instrument off and
> on
> several times. Nothing helped. The heading seemed roughly correct but
> was
> not stable and hunted through several tens of degrees. The attitude
> indicator was sometimes about right and other times drifted to completely
> wrong attitudes.
>
> All in all, this is disturbing to me. Guess I will contact Dyon on Monday
> for advice and I am hoping I can just reinstall system software or
> something.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Hmmmm, indeed. Zooming the map shown at startup will show MS71 but if I
click 'preflight' > 'plan route' & enter MS71 in either the departure or
destination field, it responds "No airport was found corresponding to
'MS71....." Did it work for you entering the identifier on the plan
route popup?
I've never used this flight planner before; the only reason I noticed
this is that I've had people tell me twice that they couldn't find it
using AOPA's flt planner.
Charlie
James Clark wrote:
>
>Hmmmmm
>
>Worked for me!!! (AOPA RTFP)
>
>Seems that MS71 is on the 258 or 159 degree radial of the JACKSON VOR,
>Southeast of the OCARO intersection.
>
>It even knows it as Slobovia Outernational, 1 mile N or Pocahontas.
>
>James
>
>
>On 11/12/05, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
>>
>>I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
>>AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
>>
>>I got around to trying it for the 1st time today, & sure enough, MS71
>>isn't found. I then clicked on the 'help' tab and at around a half hour
>>or so, I'm still waiting for the 'help' file to load (around 17 megs, so
>>far).
>>
>>Not exactly 'real time' for those of us stuck with dialup....
>>
>>Does anyone know if they only include airports for jet jockeys?
>>
>>Charlie
>>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Larry Pardue wrote:
>
> Greetings:
>
> When I was evaluating the Dynon D-10A for purchase I decided that one thing
> that made it compelling was the failure modes. The mechanical gyro
> instruments tend to fail in a way that makes them dangerous. If a vacuum
> pump fails, the instruments slowly give worse and worse information. I had
> worn mechanical gyro instruments that were inconsistent, sometimes working
> fine and sometimes giving erroneous readings. I figured the Dynon would
> either work or not. I was wrong.
Sorry you had problems with your Dynon. But it sounds like you
experienced exactly the kind of failure mode you expected from the
Dynon; the unit definitely wasn't working and there was no way you would
be tempted to use it as a flight reference.
I'm confident you and Dynon will be able to quickly solve the problem.
The Dynon seems to be racking up a solid reputation in the field and
there is obviously a gross error in the pitot-static section of your
unit or the software has been corrupted. Just be thankful that the kind
of failure you described for the vacuum system is not likely to happen
with the Dynon.
Sam Buchanan
==================
>
> Today, after takeoff, I noticed the Dynon was not right, first because zero
> rate of climb was indicated when I was climbing about 1,500 fpm. Then I
> noticed more and more problems. The indicated altitude was about 27,000
> feet and the airspeed was about 410 knots. My RV-6 is a high performance
> airplane, but not that high performance. I turned the instrument off and on
> several times. Nothing helped. The heading seemed roughly correct but was
> not stable and hunted through several tens of degrees. The attitude
> indicator was sometimes about right and other times drifted to completely
> wrong attitudes.
>
> All in all, this is disturbing to me. Guess I will contact Dyon on Monday
> for advice and I am hoping I can just reinstall system software or
> something.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
There was a time when I entered MS71 and it wouldn't chart the route because
MS71 wasn't in the database. There have been some updates and now it works.
Jerry Calvert
Edmond Ok
RV6 N296JC
----- Original Message -----
From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: OT: AOPA flight planner??
>
> Hmmmm, indeed. Zooming the map shown at startup will show MS71 but if I
> click 'preflight' > 'plan route' & enter MS71 in either the departure or
> destination field, it responds "No airport was found corresponding to
> 'MS71....." Did it work for you entering the identifier on the plan
> route popup?
>
> I've never used this flight planner before; the only reason I noticed
> this is that I've had people tell me twice that they couldn't find it
> using AOPA's flt planner.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> James Clark wrote:
>
> >
> >Hmmmmm
> >
> >Worked for me!!! (AOPA RTFP)
> >
> >Seems that MS71 is on the 258 or 159 degree radial of the JACKSON VOR,
> >Southeast of the OCARO intersection.
> >
> >It even knows it as Slobovia Outernational, 1 mile N or Pocahontas.
> >
> >James
> >
> >
> >On 11/12/05, Charlie England wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
> >>AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
> >>
> >>I got around to trying it for the 1st time today, & sure enough, MS71
> >>isn't found. I then clicked on the 'help' tab and at around a half hour
> >>or so, I'm still waiting for the 'help' file to load (around 17 megs, so
> >>far).
> >>
> >>Not exactly 'real time' for those of us stuck with dialup....
> >>
> >>Does anyone know if they only include airports for jet jockeys?
> >>
> >>Charlie
> >>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Dynon Failure Mode |
>
> Greetings:
>
> When I was evaluating the Dynon D-10A for purchase I decided
> that one thing that made it compelling was the failure modes.
> The mechanical gyro instruments tend to fail in a way that
> makes them dangerous. If a vacuum pump fails, the
> instruments slowly give worse and worse information. I had
> worn mechanical gyro instruments that were inconsistent,
> sometimes working fine and sometimes giving erroneous
> readings. I figured the Dynon would either work or not. I was wrong.
>
> Today, after takeoff, I noticed the Dynon was not right,
> first because zero rate of climb was indicated when I was
> climbing about 1,500 fpm. Then I noticed more and more
> problems. The indicated altitude was about 27,000 feet and
> the airspeed was about 410 knots. My RV-6 is a high
> performance airplane, but not that high performance. I
> turned the instrument off and on several times. Nothing
> helped. The heading seemed roughly correct but was not
> stable and hunted through several tens of degrees. The
> attitude indicator was sometimes about right and other times
> drifted to completely wrong attitudes.
>
> All in all, this is disturbing to me. Guess I will contact
> Dyon on Monday for advice and I am hoping I can just
> reinstall system software or something.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
Larry, sorry you are having troubles with the Dynon.
While we can't possibly know what the failure rate for this system (or any
other new EFIS) is yet, we must be humble to how difficult it is to design a
device of this complexity with minimal failure potentials.
I'm sure this will bring on the torches, but we seem to be in a period right
now where there are more problems with the new EFIS systems than with the
ancient mechanical systems they are replacing. This will change, of course,
but be aware that this is often the nature of new technology. There are no
free lunches.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 690 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sam Buchanan" <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Failure Mode
>
>
> Sorry you had problems with your Dynon. But it sounds like you
> experienced exactly the kind of failure mode you expected from the
> Dynon; the unit definitely wasn't working and there was no way you would
> be tempted to use it as a flight reference.
>
Sam,
That is true as far as airspeed and altitude, that I don't normally use on
the Dynon and usually have turned off. The attitude indicator problem is
pretty much like the failure you would get with a failed vacuum system.
There is an indication that is slowly changing, sometimes near correct and
sometimes way wrong.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: GPS problems |
>There have been references to the internal battery. That may be the case,
>BUT, I seem to recal some time ago there was a change in the satellite
>datastream and all older GPS's needed to be updated.
Nope. You may be thinking of the GPS rollover a few years ago that some
thought was similar to the year 2000 issues with computers..
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Manual Fuel Level Measurement |
I'd like to put scratch marks on a pyrex tube every two gallons so I'll know how
full my tanks really are. But I'm having a hard time finding a source for 1
foot of 1/4" pyrex tubing. Has anyone solved this problem?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon Failure Mode |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Alex,
Everyone can agree that all of the EFIS have had some teething issues,
some more than others. But if we consider all the instruments and
systems a single EFIS/EIS replaces, or never were even available before,
it would seem that the 'inop rate' is actually very low, especially for
a sophisticated, complex instrument right out of the gate. If we
tallied all the problems that we would have with the old individual
instruments, I'm guessing the total would be significantly greater than
what is seen with these new electronic systems. It gets noticed more
when all the malfunctions that could possibly happen show up in one
instruments...it may seem like a lot but doubt that it really is.
Heck, the eInstruments for GA have only had 2-3 real years to sort
things out. The aircraft industry has been perfecting the vacuum pump
and instruments for decades and they still crap out with frustrating
regularity, so I think we're making progress.
Chuck
Dual GRT EFIS (and satisfied with 'em)
Larry, sorry you are having troubles with the Dynon.
While we can't possibly know what the failure rate for this system (or
any
other new EFIS) is yet, we must be humble to how difficult it is to
design a
device of this complexity with minimal failure potentials.
I'm sure this will bring on the torches, but we seem to be in a period
right
now where there are more problems with the new EFIS systems than with
the
ancient mechanical systems they are replacing. This will change, of
course,
but be aware that this is often the nature of new technology. There are
no
free lunches.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 690 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
I just passed my transponder check which used my D10 as the encoder. The tester
hooked up to the static input and reduced the pressure up to 15,000 feet. The
D10, which deduces airspeed from pitot to static pressure difference, had me
going 585 mph by the time I was up to 15,000. Shoot! I wanted to break Mach
1. But the tester dude was impressed that the Dynon didn't stop at a limit
like a regular airspeed would. It was also interesting to see that the software
does indeed use pressure differences in it's algorithms for attitude determination.
On the way up to altitude, the horizon showed a descending left turn
as I recall. On the way back down, a climbing left turn. Nuts. Now I can't
remember but it might have been climbing & then descending. Anyway, it all smoothed
out once the test static pressure returned to ambient.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: OT: AOPA flight planner?? |
Make sure you have the latest version.
I justentered MS71 in the airport field.
James
On 11/12/05, Charlie England wrote:
>
>
> Hmmmm, indeed. Zooming the map shown at startup will show MS71 but if I
> click 'preflight' > 'plan route' & enter MS71 in either the departure or
> destination field, it responds "No airport was found corresponding to
> 'MS71....." Did it work for you entering the identifier on the plan
> route popup?
>
> I've never used this flight planner before; the only reason I noticed
> this is that I've had people tell me twice that they couldn't find it
> using AOPA's flt planner.
>
> Charlie
>
>
> James Clark wrote:
>
> >
> >Hmmmmm
> >
> >Worked for me!!! (AOPA RTFP)
> >
> >Seems that MS71 is on the 258 or 159 degree radial of the JACKSON VOR,
> >Southeast of the OCARO intersection.
> >
> >It even knows it as Slobovia Outernational, 1 mile N or Pocahontas.
> >
> >James
> >
> >
> >On 11/12/05, Charlie England wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>I've had a couple of folks say they can't find my home airport in the
> >>AOPA 'real time flight planner'.
> >>
> >>I got around to trying it for the 1st time today, & sure enough, MS71
> >>isn't found. I then clicked on the 'help' tab and at around a half hour
> >>or so, I'm still waiting for the 'help' file to load (around 17 megs, so
> >>far).
> >>
> >>Not exactly 'real time' for those of us stuck with dialup....
> >>
> >>Does anyone know if they only include airports for jet jockeys?
> >>
> >>Charlie
> >>
>
>
> ,
>
>
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil" <phatphill(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Fuel Level Measurement |
I used a piece of 1/4" black rubber hose.
Put a piece of 1/4" wood dowel inside to stiffen it.
Made the marks with a small file.
A ring all the way around every 5 gallons and a slash for each gallon.
The first mark is 4 gallons.
----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Manual Fuel Level Measurement
>
> I'd like to put scratch marks on a pyrex tube every two gallons so I'll
know how full my tanks really are. But I'm having a hard time finding a
source for 1 foot of 1/4" pyrex tubing. Has anyone solved this problem?
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Newhall <RV-6(at)comcast.net> |
Thanks for all the advise.
I knew the battery needed to be replaced but I thought it was only for
backup.
This GPS is supposed to run 4 hours on the battery in case of a power
failure.
I ordered a new battery online from Garmin. $60.00
Hope this solves my problem but if not it still needed the battery.
Thank
Bud
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cool Dynon Test |
On 13 Nov 2005, at 09:41, DAVID REEL wrote:
>
> I just passed my transponder check which used my D10 as the
> encoder. The tester hooked up to the static input and reduced the
> pressure up to 15,000 feet. The D10, which deduces airspeed from
> pitot to static pressure difference, had me going 585 mph by the
> time I was up to 15,000. Shoot! I wanted to break Mach 1. But
> the tester dude was impressed that the Dynon didn't stop at a limit
> like a regular airspeed would. It was also interesting to see that
> the software does indeed use pressure differences in it's
> algorithms for attitude determination. On the way up to altitude,
> the horizon showed a descending left turn as I recall. On the way
> back down, a climbing left turn. Nuts. Now I can't remember but
> it might have been climbing & then descending. Anyway, it all
> smoothed out once the test static pressure returned to ambient.
>
As far as the pitch attitude goes, the Dynon uses airspeed info to
compensate for acceleration errors. If the aircraft accelerates, the
pitch attitude algorithm would incorrectly sense an attitude change.
You can see this with a normal mechanical attitude indicator if you
can accelerate quickly enough - it will show a false pitch attitude
change. The Dynon EFIS looks at the airspeed changing, sees that you
must be accelerating, so it adjusts the calculated pitch attitude to
compensate for the error due to the acceleration. This is reported
to work very well when the aircraft is flying. But, if you hook up
the pitot-static system to a test set, so you can change the sensed
airspeed on the ground, the EFIS is fooled. The displayed attitude
will correct itself once the airspeed stabilizes at a constant value.
As far as the bank goes, I'm not sure what would be going on there.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Fuel Level Measurement |
DAVID REEL wrote:
>
>I'd like to put scratch marks on a pyrex tube every two gallons so I'll know how
full my tanks really are. But I'm having a hard time finding a source for
1 foot of 1/4" pyrex tubing. Has anyone solved this problem?
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A
>
I've got one word for you: Plastic. (with apologies & condolences to
those old enough to remember the reference)
A foot of Tygon is easy to obtain, probably free if you ask a friend, &
unbreakable. Mark it with a soldering iron or wood burner.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
RV-4's cool all too well. I think you answered your question. Block oil cooler
and block inlet. Not sure how you are blocking inlet but block the inner edge
near the spinner. Make some aero shaped foam and tape it on. Crude but effective.
In cold weather it is hard to get the RV-4 oil hot. Don't forget to lean
below 75% power.
If you want to make some more substantial and permanent change a cowl flap would
be of benefit year round and make your RV faster. In an old RVator van shows
how to make a cowl flap. If you get the last 16 years or what ever of the RVator
it shows the concept. Blocking inlet and outlet has benefits. That is one
reason the Sam James style cowl makes RV's 6mph or more faster. The stock RV
cowl is a little fat on the inlet area for most operations. To be fair, van has
to account for worst case conditions in very hot weather and hard long climbs.
If you want to know more check out the Jamesaircraft yahoo group, and look
at the first message in the group for the reason the cowl makes you go faster,
while maintaining acceptable temps.
G
HE WROTE:
From: PGLong(at)aol.com
Subject: Cowl flap
Looking to make a cowl flap that I can operate from the cockpit for my RV-4.
Does anyone have any pictures or plan I might look at? I have my oil cooler
blocked with aluminum tape and also restricted the cowl inlets approximately
one third.
Finally got my oil heated up to 185 F. Without the cowl inlets
restricted, can only get about 120 F on the oil. Not sure whether to restrict
the inlet or outlet flow. Any advice? Thanks in advance.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Manual Fuel Level Measurement |
I bought a piece of 1/2" rigid plastic PVC water pipe, some couplings (a
tee, 090 degree, straight coupling)and glue which are all are very cheap at
the local discount lumber yard. I used a 12" piece and notched it for a
fuel dipstick, made two wheel chokes by forming a "U" using 90 degree
couplings around each tire to fit beneath the wheel fairings as chocks, and
oil an dipstick wrench. The dipstick is a "T" handle about 12" long and
has a straight coupling to reinforce the bottom end with a cross notch cut
to fit the thumb ears on the Lycoming dipstick This enables a person to
easily reach deep into the cowl and still get enough leverage to loosen the
dipstick without messing up your shirt sleeve. These tools are all glued
together with PVC glue, weigh almost nothing, with a very little cost in
time and $$$ so I have a set in the baggage area and also in the hangar.
None of this tubing is clear rather it is a manila or off white but it is
just as functional and very readily available.
Dick DeCramer
RV6 N500DD 97Hours
Minnesota
> [Original Message]
> From: DAVID REEL <dreel(at)cox.net>
> To: rvlist
> Date: 11/13/2005 8:46:58 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Manual Fuel Level Measurement
>
>
> I'd like to put scratch marks on a pyrex tube every two gallons so I'll
know how full my tanks really are. But I'm having a hard time finding a
source for 1 foot of 1/4" pyrex tubing. Has anyone solved this problem?
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:stainless steel hole cutter |
Mickey...
Why 1/8" SS? That's thick, tough and spendy to cut. I went to Target (Av
Dept. of course) and bought some cheap stainless cookware and made firewall and
exhaust shields from same. Pretty easy to cut with snips. After all, our
firewalls are only .020 or so... Another technique to cut thin stainless is to
go
up to .75" with a step drill, then hog it out with die grinder and sanding
drum (Harbor Freight) chucked in. This works well and leaves a clean hole.
Radio shack and other electronics stores sell a nice little nibbler tool for
$12 that makes short work of thin SS also...
I'd be happy to mail you some surplus thin SS I have, just tell me how much
you need. I have about a square foot I can spare...
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Manual Fuel Level Measurement |
A friend showed me this trick. Use a simple stick of plywood with the grain
running horizontally. Sand it smooth and write on it with a pencil for
different fuel levels. Fuel evaporates quickly so you can go from one tank to
another. With the grain running horizontally, there is no wicking of fuel to
indicate the wrong level.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Greetings:
Saturday I posted about a failure of my Dynon D-10A.
On Sunday a Dynon employee contacted me to tell me my failure was a hardware
problem with the altimeter sensor which will require the unit to go back.
He also said the next software update will detect this type failure and warn
the pilot.
Sounds good to me.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Light SPEED Headsets |
Can someone tell me how to contact Light SPEED Headset makers? Have
unsuccessfully searched list archives & Google....
Thanks.
Dave Bockelman
F1 Rocket
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rusty" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Light SPEED Headsets |
Can someone tell me how to contact Light SPEED Headset makers? Have
unsuccessfully searched list archives & Google....
--------------------
Hi Dave,
Here's the contact info link-
http://www.anrheadsets.com/contact.asp
Also, their contact info is:
LightSPEED Aviation, Inc.
15954 SW 72nd Ave
Portland, Oregon 97224
Phone: 503.968.3113
Toll Free: 800.332.2421
Fax: 503.968.7664
Cheers,
Rusty (committing a repeat offense)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Light SPEED Headsets |
Try this:
You would need to contact Lightspeed at 1-800-332-2421.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
From: <DvdBock(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Light SPEED Headsets
>
> Can someone tell me how to contact Light SPEED Headset makers? Have
> unsuccessfully searched list archives & Google....
> Thanks.
>
> Dave Bockelman
> F1 Rocket
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kysh <vans-dragon(at)lapdragon.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Cool Dynon Test |
As Mannan J. Thomason was saying:
>
> I see the List Police are at it again! Chill out!!!!! I've been lurking
> ont this list for a couple of years and I continually see people brought up
> short for totally insignificant breaches of list etiquite (sp)? and a lot of
> questionable and error ridden answers to questions. How do I know? I've
> been a builder and mechanic for over 30 years. How about trying to keep the
> chatter relevant to building and helping "newbies" with legitimate help.
Except in this case, it is not a breach of (n)etiquette.
As I stated previously, convention dictates that quotes -not- be on top.
Some people prefer to defy convention and put their quotes on top, but
that can be allowed to slide as an error of inexperience or lack of
knowledge.
Demanding that people follow your own personal convention, in conflict
with the conventions that already exist, however, is a cardinal sin.
.~
-Kysh
--
Something witty here
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cool Dynon Test |
As I stated previously, convention dictates that quotes -not- be on top.
No. Quoted text should be on top
<< both the above quotes are from you. I, for one, am confused (though not really
very interested); which way do you want it done, officer Kysh?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Cool Dynon Test |
On 15:24:01 2005-11-14 "Jim" wrote:
> I happen to agree that top posting is best
> and that's what I'm gonna do if I ever quote again (maybe).
Really? Within your own message, not 5 lines later:
> > Here's a quote from Kysh: "These are standards, conventions,
> > things that have been around (And with good reason) since the
> > earliest days."
>
> This is like cutting the ends off the roast. Why? Because that's
> the way Gramma did it.
When you commented on Kysh's penchant for bottom-posting, not just here but
three times in your post, each was ordered with Kysh's quote first, and
your reply on the bottom. Why did you do it this way? Because it makes
the most sense when you're reading it after the fact. Which is why
bottom-replying makes the most sense too.
If you're just replying to the thread in general, and not to someone's post
specifically, then I agree: Don't quote anything. Or at lease, edit out
all the useless stuff in the earlier posts (like I did in yours).
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
List, Has anyone used any of the Synthetic Aircraft Oils for a 100 plus hours?
Do you see any advantage.....less sticking valves or cooler operation?
Thanks, Tom in Ohio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerns25(at)netscape.net |
Ok, now that I have been utterly bored by the endless posts about "email ettiqute"
I would like to ask you seasoned builders a question that actually pertains
to building an RV not a thread. I am a newbie on this thread and a newbie to
building airplanes so I rely on you guys a lot to help me out when my newbie
brain can't figure something out. Now the question...I am building my RV7 empennage
and have primed and riveted the rear spar and am now ready to bolt the
elevator torque bearing on. I would like to use torque seal on the bolts but
I am not sure if this part will be removed for final painting? If not, do most
people just paint the bolts along with the plane? I realize that the HS412's
and HS413's are riveted on so they will obviously be painted so maybe I just
apply the torque seal now and paint the bolts when it comes time to finish paint
the airframe. Any thoughts or suggestions? How have you guys done this
on your birds? Thanks...Oh, and if I have not done something to convention, let
me know as I am new to this list and don't know all the intricacies of the
list.
Darin Hawkes
RV7 Empennage (N619PB res.)
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Peltor H52 Headsets? |
Has anyone out there been trying to get Peltor H52 Headsets?
I took advantage of a deal at Sun-n-Fun 05' and I was suppose to receive
them as soon as thay became available. It was only suppose to be a few
more weeks. They are still not available :-(
I have not been charged but I have been in contact with one of their
reps and he has given dates when they would be available, but everyone
has pass and still no headsets.
They even started advertising them in most aviation catalogs with
(available Aug. 05). I can not believe a company as well known as
Peltor could let the release of these to keep being delayed month
after month.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
Sorry - couldn't resist the "netiquette" opportuniity - I won't do it again.
As for the torque seal: you should be able to tell if any parts will be
painted but I sealed them anyway. If they aren't hidden by any skin they
most likely will be painted. I would suggest that every bolt that you do a
final torque on should be torque sealed right then. That way when you do
your final inspection all you have to do is look at the fastener to see if
it's been tightened. If you have to take any loose for whatever reason,
reseal them on completion. The stuff is cheap and provides serious peace of
mind down the road. I sealed everything including and especially jam nuts
on controls. If later on you see a fastener without a seal, get out a
wrench, torque it, and seal it.
jim
'91 RV6
'05 HR2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank return line placement?, RV-7 |
I put mine in the top rear corner and ran it all the way back to the last
bay.
Michele - RV8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of glaesers
Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank return line placement?, RV-7
I put mine right in the center of the forward "lightening hole" that isn't
cut out. I ran it in for 3 ribs. I'm in the middle of my second (left)
tank.
Dennis Glaeser
7A
I'm up to my elbows in Pro-seal (ugh.) Building the right fuel tank
on my RV-7.
Where is the best place to put the return line?
Thanks in advance,
Bill Dube'
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> |
| Subject: | 2005 EAA Sport Pilot Tour - McKinney, TX |
I had an opportunity to go to the EAA Sport Pilot Tour in McKinney, TX this
past weekend and took some shots of the aircraft on display. Enjoy!
http://www.smittysrv.com/slideshow.asp?sectionid=37
Smitty's RV-9A
http://SmittysRV.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Manual Fuel Level Measurement |
Why Pyrex? I used acrylic tubing for mine and it works great. I
ordered some from TAP plastics...
https://www.tapplastics.com/
Godspeed,
Phil Birkelbach - Houston Texas
RV-7 N727WB - Phase I
http://www.myrv7.com
DAVID REEL wrote:
>
>I'd like to put scratch marks on a pyrex tube every two gallons so I'll know how
full my tanks really are. But I'm having a hard time finding a source for
1 foot of 1/4" pyrex tubing. Has anyone solved this problem?
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | MnwPeeps(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | SO< WHAT ELSE IS NEW? |
support(at)vansaircraft.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com,
alan(at)tennisbookshop.demon.co.uk, alsmith(at)olemac.net,
TOSGeneral(at)aol.com, arcasimiro(at)msn.com, Mary.Ardant(at)btinternet.com
Hi< mary (my computer just sent me a curve ball i held down the shift
key too long< and then some sort of filter kicked in and i can"t get rid of it
it writes all in caps< and if i try to do anything it messes up the
punctuation more than it already is>>> that symbol should be a period
ugh
i"ll have to keep this short until later< obviously not on empire turf<
due to several complications i am disappointed and kind of annoyed>
squam has been a problem a quick trip out of town got in the way have to be
here Saturday to pick_up a new dog< etc etc
hope your week in france was good at least there should have been a lot
less traffic cars all on fire get it????!
i"ll write later when i get this fixed at some point>
thanks>>>and we"ll try again mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Cutting Wing Rib Holes |
Hi folks,
I am about to start cutting holes in the ribs for conduit, pitot, etc. How
is everyone doing that? I have a unibit, but it seems to raise a lot of
burrings. I was thinking about some sort of hole saw. There is a unit that
Cleveland sells:
_http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=DBRB7_
(http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=DBRB7)
just wondered if anyone has any experience with this or other suggestions on
the best way to accomplish the drilling.
Regards,
Michael Wynn
RV 8 Wings
San Ramon, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cool Dynon Test |
Actually I sold the 6. I also owned a 4 but didn't build it. Sold it too.
The HR2 is the best of both worlds. I can fly with the $50 hamburger group
at 145 kts and 8gph or the Rocket group at 21"/2300 and 180 kts.
Hope I didn't make anybod mad earlier..........
jim
'91 RV6 (sold)
'05 HR2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <MnwPeeps(at)aol.com> |
| Subject: | SO< WHAT ELSE IS NEW? |
"IMB Recipient 1"
Hi< mary (my computer just sent me a curve ball i held down the shift
key too long< and then some sort of filter kicked in and i can"t get rid of it
it writes all in caps< and if i try to do anything it messes up the
punctuation more than it already is>>> that symbol should be a period
ugh
i"ll have to keep this short until later< obviously not on empire turf<
due to several complications i am disappointed and kind of annoyed>
squam has been a problem a quick trip out of town got in the way have to be
here Saturday to pick_up a new dog< etc etc
hope your week in france was good at least there should have been a lot
less traffic cars all on fire get it????!
i"ll write later when i get this fixed at some point>
thanks>>>and we"ll try again mike
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting Wing Rib Holes |
>I am about to start cutting holes in the ribs for conduit, pitot, etc. How
>is everyone doing that? I have a unibit, but it seems to raise a lot of
>burrings.
I used a bunch of unibits during building. I found the the Milwaukee
bits (from local hardware stores) did not do well. The bits I bought from
Avery or Cleveland made very good holes. Best way to cut a hole is with
the unibit in my opinion.
You are going to be cutting a lot of holes before you are done. Get a good
set now, rather than later.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting Wing Rib Holes |
Michael, Try using the unibit in a slower turning drill. It should cut a
very smooth hole. Use some lubricant on it. They do not last forever so
maybe you just need a new one. It should cut a very smooth hole. Do not
archive.
Indiana Larry
----- Original Message -----
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am about to start cutting holes in the ribs for conduit, pitot, etc.
> How
> is everyone doing that? I have a unibit, but it seems to raise a lot of
> burrings. snip
> just wondered if anyone has any experience with this or other suggestions
> on
> the best way to accomplish the drilling.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Wynn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting Wing Rib Holes |
Michael,
See my post on VAF Forums:
http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showthread.php?t=4091
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (680 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: <MLWynn(at)aol.com>
Subject: RV-List: Cutting Wing Rib Holes
>
> Hi folks,
>
> I am about to start cutting holes in the ribs for conduit, pitot, etc.
> How
> is everyone doing that? I have a unibit, but it seems to raise a lot of
> burrings. I was thinking about some sort of hole saw. There is a unit
> that
> Cleveland sells:
> _http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=DBRB7_
> (http://www5.mailordercentral.com/clevtool/prodinfo.asp?number=DBRB7)
> just wondered if anyone has any experience with this or other suggestions
> on
> the best way to accomplish the drilling.
>
> Regards,
>
> Michael Wynn
> RV 8 Wings
> San Ramon, CA
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kysh <vans-dragon(at)lapdragon.org> |
| Subject: | Semi-OT: RFC1855 (Was: O/T top / bottom posting) |
As Kelly McMullen was saying:
>
> No, Kysh, there was no standard from the days of gopher and usenet and pure
> listservs, long before the web and windoze 95.
Funny, I distinctly remember 'top quoting' as being the only thing used
by anyone back in the BBS days, the internet's early 'open' days
(88-89 'till about 94 or so), and quite frankly until the birth of
Outlook.
See below.
> Just because you think it was a standard doesn't make it so. The fact that
> no one has followed your claimed standard over the last 15 years is proof
> enough that it doesn't exist.
From rfc1855:
"- If you are sending a reply to a message or a posting be sure you
summarize the original at the top of the message, or include just enough
text of the original to give a context."
Enough said.
-Kysh
--
CleverSignature
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kysh <vans-dragon(at)lapdragon.org> |
| Subject: | Re: OT Top/Bottom Posting |
As Kelly McMullen was saying:
>
> Gesh, I can't believe this disagreement here. Just for Kysh's information
> there is no such thing as a standard, and therefore no WRONG Way.
Wrong; There are plenty of standards. Without them, the internet would
not be globally interoperable, and would not exist in any usable state.
It's important to fight for standards for just that reason.
As for quoting, you'll never hear me tell 'anyone' to quote my way.
However, if -I- am told that -I- should be quoting the wrong way, expect
me to reply with an attempt to gently educate the requestor.
-Kysh
--
| 'Life begins at 120kias' - http://www.lapdragon.org/flying |
| CBR-F4 streetbike - http://www.lapdragon.org/cbr |
| 1968 Mustang fastback - http://www.lapdragon.org/mustang |
| Got 'nix? - http://www.infrastructure.org/ |
| KG6FOB - http://www.lapdragon.org/ham |
| Give blood: Play Hockey! http://www.unixdragon.com/ |
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: OT Top/Bottom Posting |
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Just because you remember something doesn't make it a standard. Sure there
are standards such as tcp/ip and html. No one has ever adopted a listserv
posting standard that I am aware of in 15 years of using the internet and
listservs. The fact that no one has adopted a standard for posting means
there isn't one standard. You are attempting to raise your preference to a
standard, which no one is buying. Kind of like telling RV builders they
should put a Continental or Subaru engine on their plane....some might,
but you aren't going to persuade a majority, therefore there isn't a
standard.
Kysh said:
>
> As Kelly McMullen was saying:
>>
>> Gesh, I can't believe this disagreement here. Just for Kysh's
>> information
>> there is no such thing as a standard, and therefore no WRONG Way.
>
> Wrong; There are plenty of standards. Without them, the internet would
> not be globally interoperable, and would not exist in any usable state.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting Wing Rib Holes |
In a message dated 11/15/05 10:38:31 AM Central Standard Time, MLWynn(at)aol.com
writes:
> I am about to start cutting holes in the ribs for conduit, pitot, etc.
> How
> is everyone doing that? I have a unibit, but it seems to raise a lot of
> burrings. I was thinking about some sort of hole saw.
>>>
Hi Michael-
Here's a link to how I did mine:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4868
I found the Unibit makes VERY clean holes that only require a light
scotchbrite touch-up when done. I've poked mucho holes with these with excellent
results. Perhaps yours is dull or has a cracked cutting edge? Try lower speed?
(no air drill)
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel system design |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Folks,
I am in the beginning stages of figuring out what I need to install for my fuel
system.
The engine is an Aerosport Power O360 with AirFlow Performance injection. I also
have a VM1000 for system monitoring.
I already have my fuel selector valve (Andair) that supports the purge system return
lines. The engine/injection system came with a mechanical and electric
boost pumps.
What I would like to find out is what have others already done as far as what goes
where from a flow perspective?
I know that I need to put my fuel pressure/flow transducers in the mix as well
as filter(s). Do injection systems have a different gascolator due to the higher
pressures? Do I even need a gascolator with an injection system? (probably!)
Some of these things may be in the instructions for the kit as well as the engine/injection
system - but I have also determined that they are not the definitive/only
way and do not always cover the design that you are implementing.
Thanks in advance,
Ralph Capen
RV6AQB N822AR N06
Trons flowing pretty good - gotta get to work on the big fan up front........
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RFC 1855 OT Top and Bottom Posting |
So just what is RFC 1855? Can I get it from Avery's or do I need to go to
Aircraft Spruce. What about primer, epoxy or self etching? And does it
have a nosewheel or tailwheel. I bet it will not allow overhead approaches
only standard left hand turns (even if a mountain is in the way). I would
search the archives, but then again I might find it in the preview
plans. Is it a major or minor alteration, or maybe I just need an
STC. Will autofuel work if I use fuel injection or do I need electronic
ignition? If I order it from Van's what is the lead time and the best way
to ship it? Is it just me or is the RVATOR late again? I know I should
check the spelling, but I never did find out about the cool Dynon Test!!!
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Michael Wellenzohn <michael(at)wellenzohn.net> |
| Subject: | Which Compressor? |
Hello all,
I am in the process of evaluating which compressor I should buy, I am
based in Switzerland but close to the German border, so contributions
from Europe are also very welcome.
My requirements are:
1) Performance to power one airtool at a time
2) As quite as possible
What air-tank volume is necessary and what additional features will I need?
Thanks to everyone
Michael Wellenzohn
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Which Compressor? |
Michael
Get an oil lubricated compressor..very quiet..Buy as large as you can
afford. I have found that as the project has grown the need for air has
increased. I am also painting/primering all my stuff so my
oilless/noisy/compressor is really not up to the task.
Frank @ SGU and SLC
>From: Michael Wellenzohn <michael(at)wellenzohn.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Which Compressor?
>Date: Tue, 15 Nov 2005 23:29:22 +0100
>
>
>Hello all,
>
>I am in the process of evaluating which compressor I should buy, I am
>based in Switzerland but close to the German border, so contributions
>from Europe are also very welcome.
>My requirements are:
>
>1) Performance to power one airtool at a time
>2) As quite as possible
>
>What air-tank volume is necessary and what additional features will I need?
>
>Thanks to everyone
>
>Michael Wellenzohn
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jordan Grant <gra9933(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV6-List: Fuel system design |
Ralph:
This E-mail is humongous because I attached some pictures and I
didn't shrink them down. Sorry about that. I'm lazy. (The RV-List will
filter them out, but you should get them in the direct E-mail)
I have the same setup. Attached are some pictures of an AFP fuel
pump installation and pictures of my solution for the purge valve. My
airplane is not yet flying, so I can't say that the system has been
validated, but here is what I did after a bunch of research and thinking:
1. No gascolator. Not required as far as I can tell. I'm told its main
function is to take water out because a little water in the fuel can
disrupt a carbureted fuel system. Since ours are fuel-injected, the
problem is mitigated. Also, the AFP installation includes a filter already.
2. Fuel purge: I ran one line back to my right-side tank only. The only
time you're going to use it is when re-starting a hot engine (its
function is to cool the fuel in the system). Other fuel injection
systems require an "overflow" back to the tank they are feeding. That is
what the Andair valve is intended for. With the AFP, you don't have a
constant overflow of fuel, so you don't have to go through the extra
work of installing two lines back to the tanks. My advice would be to
send back the expensive Andair valve, exchange it for the regular kind,
and run just one line back to the tank of your choice. It will save you
time and reduce the complexity in your fuel system.
3. For the purge valve actuation, I installed a spring in order to have
the valve default to the closed position - and stay closed in the event
of the control cable failing.
4. Fuel Flow transducer: The books say to have about 6" of straight fuel
line on either side of the transducer. I fudged that a little and I put
the transducer in the center floor assembly with the filter and pump. I
had to use a 45 degree fitting on the transducer to make that work out.
Other installations have the transducer mounted on the firewall, in line
with the fuel feed hose that comes out of the throttle body to the
"spider" on top of the engine. I think that would actually be a better
solution. That hose comes pre-fabricated for you on the Aerosport Power,
so you might have to make new hoses to make that work out. BTW - I have
fabricated my own fuel hoses out of the stuff from the Spruce catalog -
its not hard if you need to do it.
I had some difficulty finding information on this when I was doing it,
so I hope this helps you out.
Jordan Grant
RV-6 Final Assembly (and painting!)
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>--> RV6-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen"
>
>Folks,
>
>I am in the beginning stages of figuring out what I need to install for my fuel
system.
>
>The engine is an Aerosport Power O360 with AirFlow Performance injection. I also
have a VM1000 for system monitoring.
>
>I already have my fuel selector valve (Andair) that supports the purge system
return lines. The engine/injection system came with a mechanical and electric
boost pumps.
>
>What I would like to find out is what have others already done as far as what
goes where from a flow perspective?
>
>I know that I need to put my fuel pressure/flow transducers in the mix as well
as filter(s). Do injection systems have a different gascolator due to the higher
pressures? Do I even need a gascolator with an injection system? (probably!)
>
>Some of these things may be in the instructions for the kit as well as the engine/injection
system - but I have also determined that they are not the definitive/only
way and do not always cover the design that you are implementing.
>
>Thanks in advance,
>Ralph Capen
>RV6AQB N822AR N06
>Trons flowing pretty good - gotta get to work on the big fan up front........
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com> |
| Subject: | Semi-OT: RFC1855 (Was: O/T top / bottom posting) |
Well, I always knew I wasn't 'anyone' because I have never top-quoted. And
blaming Outlook doesn't wash because it was a long time before Microsoft got
their oily paws on me; at IBM I was on mainframes running VM w/PROFS, and
MVS or using OS/2. Before that, it was non-Intel machines.
Frankly, I hate top-quoting. When I send a message, I want people to see my
message, not someone else's. If they have no idea what I'm talking about,
they can look for the quotes in the footnotes. And if I get a top-quoted
message, it just looks like a duplicate to me unless I happen to notice the
different sender (know how often I compare senders on all the messages I
receive each day? That's right, 0), so it often gets deleted without my
ever noticing what was added at the bottom. But there is an upside - it
means that many fewer messages I have to scan to see if there's something
worth reading.
As for your 'standard', someone else has already mentioned that RFC means
'Request For Comments', not 'standard' or 'specification' or any other
similar term and, even if it did, it is non-enforceable. Heck, even the
HTML 'standard' is not enforceable, which is why the browser wars continue
to this day. So you go ahead and quote however suits you and leave the rest
of us to our heathen ways, m'kay?
Patrick Kelley - MCSE
www.flion.com
-----Original Message-----
As Kelly McMullen was saying:
>
> No, Kysh, there was no standard from the days of gopher and usenet and
pure
> listservs, long before the web and windoze 95.
Funny, I distinctly remember 'top quoting' as being the only thing used
by anyone back in the BBS days, the internet's early 'open' days
(88-89 'till about 94 or so), and quite frankly until the birth of
Outlook.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Leach" <papadaddyo(at)tampabay.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Peltor H52 Headsets? |
I had the same problem. Took me forever to get my headset. Your best
bet is to call them about 3-4 times a week. Squeaky wheel gets the
grease. Headsets are good but company is slow.
Rick Leach
PS - once lived in Hopkinsville.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bobby Hester
Subject: RV-List: Peltor H52 Headsets?
Has anyone out there been trying to get Peltor H52 Headsets?
I took advantage of a deal at Sun-n-Fun 05' and I was suppose to receive
them as soon as thay became available. It was only suppose to be a few
more weeks. They are still not available :-(
I have not been charged but I have been in contact with one of their
reps and he has given dates when they would be available, but everyone
has pass and still no headsets.
They even started advertising them in most aviation catalogs with
(available Aug. 05). I can not believe a company as well known as
Peltor could let the release of these to keep being delayed month
after month.
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV Ride near Pensacola, Fl |
Listers, I have a friend that is interested in getting an RV ride for his aviation
minded nephew during the first week of December. The young man is a teenager
and lives in or near Pensacola Florida. Anybody interested please let me know.
Mark Phipps, N242RP, RV6A, 50 hours
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Which Compressor? |
> I am in the process of evaluating which compressor I should buy, I am
> based in Switzerland but close to the German border, so contributions
> from Europe are also very welcome.
> My requirements are:
>
> 1) Performance to power one airtool at a time
> 2) As quite as possible
>
> What air-tank volume is necessary and what additional features will I need?
Hi Michael,
Do you plan to paint using this air compressor? If so, then
a big one is a good idea. Do you have 3-phase 400v available
in your workshop? That's good to use since most electric
companies in CH charge you for the max of the 3 phases, so
using 400v 3-phase will keep the load balanced.
I bought a Gde compressor from a German guy on Ebay, I think
it is this one:
http://www.guede.com/prods.php3?N=50008&U=&S=p_ko.php3
I'm real happy with it, but it's really much bigger
than I need, since I can't paint in my workshop. When
I bought it, I thought I'd be painting. It's not too
loud, and it only runs very infrequently.
What are you building?
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Slick magneto 500 hour inspection |
Listers,
Any advice about to whom I should send a Slick magneto for 500 hour
inspection and overhaul?
Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Slick magneto 500 hour inspection |
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Stephen J. Soule said:
>
> Listers,
>
> Any advice about to whom I should send a Slick magneto for 500 hour
> inspection and overhaul?
>
> Steve
>
You don't say where you are located, but this list will give you a start:
http://www.trade-a-plane.com/unprotected/cgi-bin/prodindex.pl?showcategory~0615~Magneto+Overhaul.x or if you have trouble with a long url
http://makeashorterlink.com/?T17724B2C
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Kaluza" <charleskaluza(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Cutting Wing Rib Holes |
I found the spade wood bits with the cutting tips worked well in a slow turning
drill. The tips cut through the metal before the flat portion of the bit made
contact. Nice clean holes with many sizes available.
Charles Kaluza
RvV 6a
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Subject: Cutting Wing Rib Holes
Hi folks,
I am about to start cutting holes in the ribs for conduit, pitot, etc.
How
is
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Slick magneto 500 hour inspection |
Steve -
My cousin is really good at fixxing mags - I'll ask him if he'll do it.
He's a retired helicopter mechanic and lives here at the airpark. Betcha
he'll do a better job for less money than any shop will (if he will do it -
he has a lot of projects).
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Which Compressor? |
Frank -
I went to Home Depot and got a 6 hp 60 gal. 125 psi, 100 cfm at 90 psi
compressor for $400 and it was well worth it. I built my 6 with a 1.5 hp 15
gal. Craftsman and it was a pain in the butt to try to paint or run a die
grinder.
jim
"05 HR2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
"RV3 list" , "RV List"
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Someone keeps sending me list email with my own address on it. The really funny
thing is the messages are exactly the same as ones that I sent out earlier.
Does anyone else have this problem and how did you deal with it? I'm thinking
of blocking email from me - would that work?
jim
'05 HR2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joelrhaynes(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: wing installation |
I strongly second the telescoping office chair trick for supporting the root end
of the wing for installation/removal. Works like a charm. I even removed
and reinstalled a wing single-handedly using this trick.
Joel Haynes
7A N557XW (reserved)
Bozemen, MT
On the gear and wiring, engine on its way!
From: Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing Installation.
> ... I want to make some sawhorses to support
> the wings as they go on. Does anyone have the measurement of distance from
> the bottom of the wing at the main spar and the inboard/outboard skin joint
> and the bottom skin of the fuselage?
One clever trick I read on one of these lists was to use
an old office chair with the back removed. One of those
chairs that are height adjustable. You might be able to
pick some up at a junkyard or "Goodwill" type place.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Spar Doubler Optional Holes |
Can anyone tell me whether it is better for C/G purposes to cut the holes out if
your putting a 360 or 320 engine. I know for spin recovery, it is better to
have a light tail but I don't want an aircraft that is too nose heavy ether. All
you RV-7A or 6A that went with this option, please give me some advise because
I haven't decided on which engine to put in the 7A.
Mike Harris, wskimike(at)mchsi.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TruTrak with Navaid Servo |
Dan,
I have done a considerable amount of test flying for TruTrak in my RV8.
The problem you are describing, suggests a possible "Ground Loop". This is
usually caused by RF emissions from radios etc. The first thing to look at
is the antenna cable. If it is not RG-400 or equivalent, consider changing
them. RG58 etc doesn't provide adequate shielding for modern electronic
equipment.
If this doesn't help, contact Trutrac and ask for help. They will be happy
to discuss you problem and provide a solution. The Navaid servo is not the
problem usually.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan DeNeal" <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: TruTrak with Navaid Servo
>
> I use this setup in my rv6a and love the Digitrak. I do notice one quark
> though. When I first turn it on, it dips the right wing down and then
> levels it back to where it had been. Something I have to warn my passanger
> about as it is a little disorienting when it happens. Once the wings are
> level again it will follow the GPS 295 heading exactly as programed. I
> have also installed the alititude hold from Digitrak people. Makes for an
> easy cross country flight.
>
> I do not know if it is the combination of the Digitrak and the Navaid
> servo that causes this to dip the wing or whether this is something
> Digitrak just does.
>
> Dan DeNeal
> RV6a N256GD
>
> Ed Holyoke wrote:
>
>
> Is anybody out there in list land using a TruTrak autopilot head with a
> Navaid servo? Not really happy with the Navaid, thinking about
> upgrading, and the Digitrak is cheaper than the EZ Pilot. Just wondering
> if anybody has tried this combo and how it works.
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Spar Doubler Optional Holes |
Hi Mike,
If it is listed as optional to utilize lightening holes Go ahead and remove
the material.
If You later opt for an O-320-??? with a wood prop you won't need or want
the weight back there. Its only an ounce or two but they do add up.
Lets suppose you want to built a 6a with an O-360-A1A and a Hartzell
constant speed prop.
You also wish to install:
A light weight starter (converted Toyota). (5 to 7 pound saving)
A small size 60 amp. ND alternator. (4 to 6 pound saving)
One Lazar II electronic ignition and one Slick Mag. (a pound or two less
overall weght)
The O-360-A1A has an oil filter adapter and of course the filter. (add three
or four pounds)
Odyssey battery inside at firewall. (14+ pounds weight saving)
Control panel;
Dynon D10-a and both Rocky Mountain Instruments for engine and flight
management with steam gage Alt. and A/S allowed the removal of the Vacuum
pump, it's mount and all associated instruments hoses etc. (close to ten
pounds weight reduction)
The electric elevator trim servo is chosen over the manual cable because of
aft weight savings and also cockpit comfort.
You do not stray from vans structural design or instructions on primary
issues. You do however install the two (Dynon and RMI) magnetometers in the
space just ahead of the horizontal stab. (about eight ounces)
Also You add .032 aluminium floors under the rudder pedals which offer added
strength, noise and heat insulation (I think) add about six to eight pounds
of materials.
Again for sound and heat reduction The firewall is insulated with Van's
supplied insulation. (about 1 and 1/2 pounds)
I will leave it to you to do a rough weight and balance calculation on the
above airframe.
In general weight on the nose is easy to add by using the heavier
accessories and the Landoll harmonic balancer mount with or without the
balancer.(The mount weighs about 12 pounds)
I have seen other other nose weights offered. These could add as much as 21
pounds at the prop.
Rearward weight shift can be had by mounting strobe ballasts, battery and
what have you toward the rear (behind the baggage bulkhead)
What I am trying to show is that weight and balance issues are more often
and more effectivly adjusted by accessory choices and their possitioning
rather than risking structural integrity by removing a fairly limited small
amount of metal. If you can reduce overall weight by punching and drilling
holes WITHOUT risking structural integrity issues then why haul the weight
around. DO be careful though!
I'm Told Van seems to think the O-320-??? with a constant speed is the good
choice over all.
I hope this helps somehow,
Jim in Kelowna
----- Original Message -----
From: "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: RV-List: Rudder Spar Doubler Optional Holes
>
> Can anyone tell me whether it is better for C/G purposes to cut the holes
> out if your putting a 360 or 320 engine. I know for spin recovery, it is
> better to have a light tail but I don't want an aircraft that is too nose
> heavy ether. All you RV-7A or 6A that went with this option, please give
> me some advise because I haven't decided on which engine to put in the 7A.
>
> Mike Harris, wskimike(at)mchsi.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | paint-on ceramic heat shield |
Does any one have any experience with this material or something like it?
http://www.bvmjets.com/
Click on "tools & supplies" and then "Heat Shield".
I talked to Bob Violett on the phone about this and it sounds like a
very good insulator. They use it in RC model planes with jet engines
(jet engines in a RC?) to insulate the fiberglass body of the model from
the heat of the jet exhaust. I ordered some to paint on the inside of
my fiberglass cooling plenum. I might use it down by the exhaust pipes
too (under the reflective foil).
I suspect he buys the stuff in bulk from some other company and sells it
under his label. Does any one know what the material actually is? I'm
guessing I could probably get it a lot cheaper from the manufacturer.
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ACS2002 engine monitor system for sale |
| From: | "Ken Dominy" <abqmooney(at)excite.com> |
Maybe I didn't explain it well, but the warranty (as explained to me today by AFS) begins with the first run and lasts for one year, but they give you one year from shipment to install it. My unit has never been installed or run and was shipped in Feb 2005. If it were installed and run tomorrow, the 1 year period would begin tomorrow. But, if it isn't run until April 2006 they will only honor the warranty untill Feb 2006. Sorry if I confused you.Ken--- On Wed 11/16, LarryRobertHelming lhelming(at)sigecom.net wrote:From: LarryRobertHelming [mailto: lhelming(at)sigecom.net]To: rv-list(at)matronics.comDate: Wed, 16 Nov 2005 22:00:21 -0600Subject: Re: RV-List: ACS2002 engine monitor system for sale-- RV-List message posted by: "LarryRobertHelming" I believe the warranty on the ACS2002 is 1 year from first date of run which is last, not first.Indiana Larry----- Original Message ----- From: "Ken Dominy" To: Subject: RV-List: ACS2002 engine monitor system for sale
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Resurrecting clecos |
Dumb question I know:
But...my clecos are about 10 years old now (ya I've been working on it THAT
long). Quite a few of them do not pull back inside the body all the way and
can no longer clamp two pieces of metal tightly together. Some I can grab
the tangs and move back and forth a few 32nds of an inch and some eventually
retract back in all the way if you leave them alone for a few minutes (maybe
they just don't want to be bothered :-)). This is more of a curiosity than
anything but....what exactly is the failure mode (I would guess rusted worn
out springs)? and.....can they be resurrected by immersion in solvent,
penetrating oil or some other elixir? Being the airplane needs very few
clecos at this point it's not a big deal but after spending so much money on
them it's hard to just throw tens of dollars worth of them into the trash
can.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
That free panel planning software is really....cool
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Resurrecting clecos |
Dean, try putting a drop of oil on them and wirk them a few times. Did wonders
for mine that were getting stickey.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 157 hours
>
>
> Dumb question I know:
>
> But...my clecos are about 10 years old now (ya I've been working on it THAT
> long). Quite a few of them do not pull back inside the body all the way and
> can no longer clamp two pieces of metal tightly together. Some I can grab
> the tangs and move back and forth a few 32nds of an inch and some eventually
> retract back in all the way if you leave them alone for a few minutes (maybe
> they just don't want to be bothered :-)). This is more of a curiosity than
> anything but....what exactly is the failure mode (I would guess rusted worn
> out springs)? and.....can they be resurrected by immersion in solvent,
> penetrating oil or some other elixir? Being the airplane needs very few
> clecos at this point it's not a big deal but after spending so much money on
> them it's hard to just throw tens of dollars worth of them into the trash
> can.
>
> Dean Psiropoulos
> RV-6A N197DM
> That free panel planning software is really....cool
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | hangar space at or near Truckee (KTRK) |
Is there any RV-friendly hangar space at or near Truckee-Tahoe (KTRK)?
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resurrecting clecos |
Hi Dean,
What worked for me when my clecoes started sticking, was to add a small
amount of lubricating oil to a solvent like paint thinner and immerse
the clecoes in the solution. I exercised the clecoes as I took them out
of the solution. When they dried, only a film of oil was left on each.
This avoided the quantities of oil which would leak out forever if I
immersed them in concentrated oil.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
-6A flying
DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>
>Dumb question I know:
>
>But...my clecos are about 10 years old now (ya I've been working on it THAT
>long). Quite a few of them do not pull back inside the body all the way and
>can no longer clamp two pieces of metal tightly together. Some I can grab
>the tangs and move back and forth a few 32nds of an inch and some eventually
>retract back in all the way if you leave them alone for a few minutes (maybe
>they just don't want to be bothered :-)). This is more of a curiosity than
>anything but....what exactly is the failure mode (I would guess rusted worn
>out springs)? and.....can they be resurrected by immersion in solvent,
>penetrating oil or some other elixir? Being the airplane needs very few
>clecos at this point it's not a big deal but after spending so much money on
>them it's hard to just throw tens of dollars worth of them into the trash
>can.
>
>Dean Psiropoulos
>RV-6A N197DM
>That free panel planning software is really....cool
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: paint-on ceramic heat shield |
To Tom Sargent
You might try a Speed shop for this type of material. It is used on race cars and
provides a heat shield.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Spar Doubler Optional Holes & Lightning Holes in General |
| From: | "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> |
Regarding lightning holes in general, just cutting the hole out does
indeed remove metal and some weight. However, if you notice most
lightning holes do have stamped or raised areas usually done with big
dies, that add some structural rigidly to the circumference immediately
around the hole. Merely cutting a hole without the stamped or pressed
(vice) hills & valleys may actually weaken the structure........
.......................................................................
....................................
Hi Mike,
If it is listed as optional to utilize lightening holes Go ahead and
remove
the material.
If You later opt for an O-320-??? with a wood prop you won't need or
want
the weight back there. Its only an ounce or two but they do add up.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Resurrecting clecos |
| From: | "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
Carburetor dip cleaner, or paint remover will remove hardened PRC/proseal.
sportav8r(at)aol.com said:
>
> I lost quite a few over the 4-year build period to epoxy resin or proseal
> ingestion; it's rather toxic to the poor things. MEK, applied early
> enough, is a fairly good antidote.
>
> Man, I miss those days. A high-magnitude kitchen pass to become a repeat
> offender is apparently not forthcoming from the Management...
>
> -Stormy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Resurrecting clecos |
>I lost quite a few over the 4-year build period to epoxy resin or proseal
ingestion; it's rather toxic to the poor things. MEK, >applied early
enough, is a fairly good antidote.
>Man, I miss those days. A high-magnitude kitchen pass to become a repeat
offender is apparently not forthcoming from the >Management...
>-Stormy
I know what you mean on the kitchen pass. I found a way around it and have
approval to build a 3. I'm building her a bar in the family room. It's
really not a bar - just another flat place to put foo foo junk but it IS
approval. Try it.
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerns25(at)netscape.net |
| Subject: | Re: paint-on ceramic heat shield |
Tom,
I have used it. It is good stuff and protects from heat very well. I have built
3 of the BVM jet and those little turbines put out some serious heat...like
to the tune of 1500-1800 degree F and the fiberglass is barely even warm around
the thrust tube. Granted it is a double walled stainless tube but still, the
out wall is only 1/4" from the fiberglass in places. I am planning on useing
it around my exhaust on my RV7 when I get to that point.
Darin Hawkes
RV7 (N619PB res.)
"Dale Ensing" wrote:
>
>To Tom Sargent
>
>You might try a Speed shop for this type of material. It is used on race cars
and provides a heat shield.
>Dale Ensing
>
>
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
Jim,
You are not the only one. I don't know how "they" do it, but the idiots
that spend there time doing millicious or criminal activities never seem
to tire. So don't feel bad. In fact many months ago I got e-mails from a
member on this list. I recgonized the address. It was a clear scam. I
relpyed and asked What the?. He replied back and said, Hey it was not
me. I totally belived him. His email was hyjacked.
Any computer experts out there if you have any info on this, we would
love to hear. For me I have firewalls, anti-virus blocks and scans and
on the web I give out as little info as possible!!!!!
I also use my main email account for business / important personal
use with known trusted companies or people, ONLY. I have my forum
email address that I use on public forms and other non essential uses.
I tend to get almost no BS activity on my main account, but my public
account is attacked with Nigerian business offers and half of an estate
for a deceased person with no family in the US. Oh boy my lucky day.
I think the IDIOTS use the web and forum's, not just this one to scan for
email address's. How they can use it I don't know, but change your
password often. Also you can report them and get info on the email:
First find there IP address in the header of the e-mail (you have to click
a link to show this on the email page. Find out the provider, country of
the email)
http://www.webyield.net/domainquery.html
Report them to: Internet Fraud Complaint Center
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp
Report it to the e-mail provider
Or just ignore and delete. Remember NO legit company will ask you for
your personal info, password or account info.
Take Care George
>From: "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net>
>"RV3 list" , "RV List"
>Subject: RV-List: list fraud
>
>Someone keeps sending me list email with my own address on it.
>The really funny thing is the messages are exactly the same as
>ones that I sent out earlier. Does anyone else have this problem
>and how did you deal with it? I'm thinking of blocking email from
>me would that >work? jim '05 HR2
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins) |
| Subject: | Re: wing installation |
> Dear Bob: I can see you are going to do it your way damned the best advice
> of experienced builders who have been there and done it already.
Well, hey, the line of superior intellects to me is over on the right.
But, seriously, I don't think there's a best way or best advice. We're free to
build our airplanes in the way we desire. The fact a best way worked for you
doesn't necessarily mean it's the best way; it means that it's the best way for
you. It's the only way you tried.
Others have posted that -- thanks to the miracles of old office chairs -- they've
been able to do this task themselves or with one other person. And that was
the best way that worked for them.
I think that's great for both of you.
And it's true there are other things I could be building at this time, but I don't
LIKE building that way. I like to follow a prescribed order and, specifically,
the order of the instruction manual. I'm more comfortable with it. It helps
me avoid missing anything and while it may be a bad case of OCD -- it's MY
OCD. It's also the way I've built the plane so far.
> person do if a hard to handle heavy wing slips out of your grip or critical
> balance is lost? You take the risk out by using a friend or two.
I can, actually, use my son...but I still want to build a couple of devices to
assist and protect.
//How young are you anyway?
I'm 52 and don't understand the relevance of the question. But I'm not under the
pressure of time that you seem to think I should be under. Part of the reason
for that is that I AM 52 and part of the reason for that is that I don't get
into the "competitive" nature of RV building. I'm here not only to build a plane,
but enjoy the journey and the process and if it takes 5,6,7 years, then it
takes 5,6 and 7 years and if my pokiness makes others feel superior and smug,
then I guess that's just an added benefit.
Oh, I'm also not a surgeon, didn't make my fortune in software, and not a trust
fund baby, didn't cash in my stock optiosn to build it, and don't intend to put
my family into debt so that _I_ can have a toy. I pay as I go and part of the
reason I may go slow is because I'm accumulating the cash for the finishing
kit so I've GOT the time to go slow. I realize that makes me a lesser builder...and,
yeah, so will the fact I won't spend $14,000 on my panel, either. I'm
a working stiff building a working stiff's airplane at a working stiff's pace.
Now, please. I beg you. Can you take a moment to drop a tape measure from the scarf
joint and tell me the distance to the belly?
I'm comfortable being a lesser builder. But I'd sure be happier with that measurement.
(g)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
| Subject: | Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
I have a couple questions:
1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for that matter)?.
My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
2. Has anyone modified a -7 or -6 for a carseat to hold a child in the back? or
is that even possible or safe?
We are having a baby in 5 weeks and am concerned about whether the -7 is now going
to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just cut my losses and
sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
- Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins) |
| Subject: | Re: wing installation |
> It's hard to move one around by yourself. I'd think that you're asking
My plan has never been to move it around myself. Hey, do you think I moved both
wings from the garage, around to the back of the house, removed a window, and
carried it through the window into the waiting arms of the cradle in what used
to be the family room in the basement myself?(g)
I will be able to get it out of there and back into the garage myself. I just want
to build a little deal to hold it until I can put it in, and I'd like it to
be at the proper height.
I realize me building this little thing isn't anybody else's idea of a good time
or productive work but this is what I LIKE to do....putter and play. This qualifies.
Now y'all need to stop sounding like a nagging wife and give me that measurement.
(g)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
Check the archives....I believe Tim Lewis had a 6A and had pictures of his kid
in a back seat.
He may still be lurking.....
-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Johnson <matt(at)n559rv.com>
Subject: RV-List: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? (not processed:
message from valid local sender)
I have a couple questions:
1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for that matter)?.
My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
2. Has anyone modified a -7 or -6 for a carseat to hold a child in the back? or
is that even possible or safe?
We are having a baby in 5 weeks and am concerned about whether the -7 is now going
to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just cut my losses and
sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
- Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: wing installation |
Bob, why not make it a geometry exercise? Somewhere in the plans (at
least for a -6) is the dihedral angle and you can supply the distance
from the fuselage side or centerline. A little trig will give you the
rise. If trig is long forgotten, post the angle and distance and 40
people will give you the answer.
Regards,
Greg Young - Houston (DWH)
RV-6 N6GY ...project Phoenix (5.5yr & 3+ rebuild)
Navion N5221K - just an XXL RV-6A
>
> Now, please. I beg you. Can you take a moment to drop a tape
> measure from the scarf joint and tell me the distance to the belly?
>
> I'm comfortable being a lesser builder. But I'd sure be
> happier with that measurement. (g)
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Joseph Larson <jpl(at)showpage.org> |
Like Bob, I'm a lesser builder, too. I started my RV-6A before Van
was pre-punching the parts. I haven't finished the wings. Like Bob,
I'm paying for it as I go, and I don't have the money for anything
beyond the parts I already own. So I'm in no rush. I've moved it
three times, building 4 different places to work on it as I go --
with the most recent build requiring building an entire garage. I
feel pretty good about that, too.
I'm also not going to win any awards for workmanship. I'm doing the
best job I can. Some of you are undoubtedly doing far better work
than I can hope to do. The former marines jet mechanic across the
street and the various other builders who stop by will help me make
sure that it's a safe airplane, and that's all that matters to me.
I'm currently going VERY slowly, because all that moving and garage
building and getting divorced and all sorts of other stuff has left
me a little unsure about my next steps. But I'm making forward
progress, in little baby steps.
Ultimately, I'll have built an airplane. Yeah, it'll take me 4 times
longer than some of you. But what percentage of the population
builds their own airplane?
Bob, thank you for making me feel better about being one of those
lesser builders.
-Joe
On Nov 17, 2005, at 3:17 PM, Bob Collins wrote:
> Oh, I'm also not a surgeon, didn't make my fortune in software, and
> not a trust fund baby, didn't cash in my stock optiosn to build it,
> and don't intend to put my family into debt so that _I_ can have a
> toy. I pay as I go and part of the reason I may go slow is because
> I'm accumulating the cash for the finishing kit so I've GOT the
> time to go slow. I realize that makes me a lesser builder...and,
> yeah, so will the fact I won't spend $14,000 on my panel, either.
> I'm a working stiff building a working stiff's airplane at a
> working stiff's pace.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins) |
| Subject: | Re: Lesser builders |
> Bob, thank you for making me feel better about being one of those
> lesser builders.
thanks, But can you hurry up and get that (*&#*(& thing built so you can give me
those dimensions? (g)
Seriously -- or perhaps not -- I let my young kids (back whent hey cared) rivet
and shoot the gun. Did I know they were going to ding it? You bet I did. So what.
They set a rivet. When they realized they set a rivet, they smiled like crazy
and they were proud. Sure, there was a smiley on it, and maybe a ding. But
so what? They set a rivet. Talk about priceless.
I have a rule for the kids in the neighborhood. Help with the airplane in any capacity
and you get a free flight when it's done. "Helping" includes pulling
a cable or shooting a rivet, even if you've never shot one before. Same thing.
I work like a house afire during the day. Always something else to do. Maybe, after
everyone's asleep, I'll sneak out to the garage and take way too much time
making a part. And for a moment, I'll feel just a bit guilty while remembering
Phil's page about maximizing productivity. But only for a moment. I'm not trying
to maximize anything.
At that time of day, you now, I just don't need another person telling me all the
stuff I have to do. IN fact, I dn't have anybody telling me anything. I can
squeeze a rivet by hand...and in the quiet of the night....I can hear the rivet
sizzle. Then I can caress the beauty of a flush head rivet. And then move
on.....eventually.
Hey, I dig the folks who like the destination and don't care about the journey.
I'm just not one of those people. I take side roads just to see where they'll
go.
Now if I could just find the road that leads to "distance between scarf joint and
belly skin" Lane.... (g)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins) |
| Subject: | Re: wing installation |
>
> Bob, why not make it a geometry exercise? Somewhere in the plans (at
> least for a -6) is the dihedral angle and you can supply the distance
> from the fuselage side or centerline. A little trig will give you the
> rise. If trig is long forgotten, post the angle and distance and 40
> people will give you the answer.
You know how I always point out I flunked shop in high school. I was better in
shop than I was i trig. (g)
But, yeah, I thought of that this afternoon as I realized how hard it was going
to be to get the information.
Does Matronics host a trig group?(g)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lesser builders |
I don't believe there is a lesser builder. I feel that we are superior builders
inasmuchas we have to be more reourceful. I took 5 years to build my aircraft
and built a house and hangar in there. Actually. I'll bet we are the majority.
I look down my nose at people who hire pros to build their airplane and
then strut around with trophies. Mine has a lot of flaws but I BUILT IT.
see it at: http://home.earthlink.net/~jlanglin44
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
Geez guys I'm sorry - it was supposed to be humor. I thought there might be a
setting that would stop my posts from returning to me. I really apologize.
jim
-----Original Message-----
From: gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com
Subject: Re: RV-List: list fraud
Jim,
You are not the only one. I don't know how "they" do it, but the idiots
that spend there time doing millicious or criminal activities never seem
to tire. So don't feel bad. In fact many months ago I got e-mails from a
member on this list. I recgonized the address. It was a clear scam. I
relpyed and asked What the?. He replied back and said, Hey it was not
me. I totally belived him. His email was hyjacked.
Any computer experts out there if you have any info on this, we would
love to hear. For me I have firewalls, anti-virus blocks and scans and
on the web I give out as little info as possible!!!!!
I also use my main email account for business / important personal
use with known trusted companies or people, ONLY. I have my forum
email address that I use on public forms and other non essential uses.
I tend to get almost no BS activity on my main account, but my public
account is attacked with Nigerian business offers and half of an estate
for a deceased person with no family in the US. Oh boy my lucky day.
I think the IDIOTS use the web and forum's, not just this one to scan for
email address's. How they can use it I don't know, but change your
password often. Also you can report them and get info on the email:
First find there IP address in the header of the e-mail (you have to click
a link to show this on the email page. Find out the provider, country of
the email)
http://www.webyield.net/domainquery.html
Report them to: Internet Fraud Complaint Center
http://www.ifccfbi.gov/cf1.asp
Report it to the e-mail provider
Or just ignore and delete. Remember NO legit company will ask you for
your personal info, password or account info.
Take Care George
>From: "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net>
>"RV3 list" , "RV List"
>Subject: RV-List: list fraud
>
>Someone keeps sending me list email with my own address on it.
>The really funny thing is the messages are exactly the same as
>ones that I sent out earlier. Does anyone else have this problem
>and how did you deal with it? I'm thinking of blocking email from
>me would that >work? jim '05 HR2
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
Your wife's concern for hearing protection is valid IMHO. My kids flew
with me occasionally when they were young, starting from babies held in
my wife's lap (they're now 19 thru 25). If they are going to fly
occasionally (a few times per year) it's probably not a big deal. Any
regular exposure to the noise levels in our aircraft warrant protection
- and that's tough to do with kids. First getting something the right
size, and then getting them to actually wear it.
A car seat in the back is certainly possible, and properly restrained
probably as safe as the other seats for all practical purposes. Whether
it's legal is another question. The regulations allow car seats to be
strapped into a seat with a seat belt - no provision for strapping it
into a baggage area (but no explicit exclusion either). You'd have to
secure it in the manner specified by the manufacturer - which means
installing a seat belt in the baggage area which emulates how it would
be strapped into a seat. A call to the local FSDO might not be a bad
idea, and maybe your insurance company.
Of course, once the child turns 2 he/she must be in a seat with a seat
belt (with or without a car seat).
How often do you think you'll want/need to take the whole family flying?
Will the trips be short/local or X-C? As usual, once the mission is
defined, the vehicle to meet the criteria can be selected. Once you
realize how much stuff you carry around with kids you'll be eyeing
Cessna Caravans :-)
Dennis Glaeser
7A Wings done - fuselage coming...
--------------------------------------------
I have a couple questions:
1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for
that matter)?.
My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
2. Has anyone modified a -7 or -6 for a carseat to hold a child
in the back? or
is that even possible or safe?
We are having a baby in 5 weeks and am concerned about whether
the -7 is now going
to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just
cut my losses and
sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
- Matt
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerns25(at)netscape.net |
| Subject: | Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's??(not processed: |
message from valid local sender)
Matt,
I have two kids (4 and 1 1/2 years) and am building a 7. Before this, I had a
Kitfox Model III and my 4 year old loved that thing more than life itself. He
first flew in it when he was 3. I was not able to get a car seat in it as it
was too large to fit (I don't know about the RV, a small seat may fit but I think
your kids feet would be all over the panel). I simply added some removable
seat padding (raised him up so the shoulder harnesses were more effective)
and then buckled him in the 4 point harness. I never took the 1 1/2 year old
flying as I think he is too young to know not to touch certain things.
As far as building the 7 vs. the 10...I guess it is all about economics. I would
love a 10 but the extra costs make it not feasible at the moment. Besides,
I live by the 80/20 rule which simply put is buy (or build) an airplane that
meets your need 80% of the time. For the other 20% you can rent. In my case,
and in the case of most of my pilot friends, we fly alone or with one other person
90% of the time. So, in short, my 7 will be perfect for me and for that
rare time when the whole family wants to go, we will rent a 182 or go commercial.
Keep building the 7.
Darin Hawkes
RV7 (N619PB res.)
"Matt Johnson" wrote:
>
>I have a couple questions:
>
>1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for that matter)?.
My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
>
>2. Has anyone modified a -7 or -6 for a carseat to hold a child in the back? or
is that even possible or safe?
>
>We are having a baby in 5 weeks and am concerned about whether the -7 is now going
to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
>year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just cut my losses and
sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
>
>- Matt
>
>
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register
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Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
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________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Gerns25(at)netscape.net |
| Subject: | Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's??(not processed: |
message from valid local sender)
Matt,
Forgot the hearing protection question...My 4 year old used one of my DC headsets.
I found that you can adjust the size to fit all but the smallest person in
the world. They also make some youth sized headsets but like I said, the DC
works fine and I had an extra. If you are flying with a baby, obviously they
probably won't leave a headset on their head and they may fit into the category
of "smallest person". My friend flys his 182 with his boy and has been flying
with him since he was a baby. He would simply pad around his head and ears
to try to minimize the noise. I don't know how well it protected but his boy
would sleep for hours during flights.
Darin
"Matt Johnson" wrote:
>
>I have a couple questions:
>
>1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for that matter)?.
My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
>
>2. Has anyone modified a -7 or -6 for a carseat to hold a child in the back? or
is that even possible or safe?
>
>We are having a baby in 5 weeks and am concerned about whether the -7 is now going
to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
>year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just cut my losses and
sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
>
>- Matt
>
>
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at http://isp.netscape.com/register
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
(not processed: message from valid local sender)
That is a good idea. As for your question about the flights, I would say the average
flight time would be 45 min to 1 hour.
- Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com>
Date: Thu, 17 Nov 2005 17:31:34 -0500
Subject: RV-List: Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's??
>
>
> Your wife's concern for hearing protection is valid IMHO. My kids flew
> with me occasionally when they were young, starting from babies held in
> my wife's lap (they're now 19 thru 25). If they are going to fly
> occasionally (a few times per year) it's probably not a big deal. Any
> regular exposure to the noise levels in our aircraft warrant protection
> - and that's tough to do with kids. First getting something the right
> size, and then getting them to actually wear it.
>
> A car seat in the back is certainly possible, and properly restrained
> probably as safe as the other seats for all practical purposes.
> Whether
> it's legal is another question. The regulations allow car seats to be
> strapped into a seat with a seat belt - no provision for strapping it
> into a baggage area (but no explicit exclusion either). You'd have to
> secure it in the manner specified by the manufacturer - which means
> installing a seat belt in the baggage area which emulates how it would
> be strapped into a seat. A call to the local FSDO might not be a bad
> idea, and maybe your insurance company.
>
> Of course, once the child turns 2 he/she must be in a seat with a seat
> belt (with or without a car seat).
>
> How often do you think you'll want/need to take the whole family
> flying?
> Will the trips be short/local or X-C? As usual, once the mission is
> defined, the vehicle to meet the criteria can be selected. Once you
> realize how much stuff you carry around with kids you'll be eyeing
> Cessna Caravans :-)
>
> Dennis Glaeser
> 7A Wings done - fuselage coming...
>
> --------------------------------------------
>
>
> I have a couple questions:
>
> 1. When is a child old enough to fly in an RV (or any plane for
> that matter)?.
> My wife is concerned about hearing protection for the child.
>
> 2. Has anyone modified a -7 or -6 for a carseat to hold a child
> in the back? or
> is that even possible or safe?
>
> We are having a baby in 5 weeks and am concerned about whether
> the -7 is now going
> to work for our new family of 3. I still have another
> year and a half to go till completion of the -7. Should I just
> cut my losses and
> sell the -7 now (at fuse stage) and start on a -10?
>
> - Matt
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RobHickman(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
I have been flying with my kids in my RV-4 for 6 years now, they are 10, 12,
and 14.
I had a set of the little kids headsets for them and they never did like
them. Until recently they always used LightSpeed headsets. The large ear
cushions on the LightSpeed headsets seemed to work very good for them. After
spending the last 3 years at Oshkosh working in our booth they discovered that
Bose has free pop in their booth and guess what? Now the LightSpeed headsets
hurt their heads and only the Bose Headsets will possibly do.
Now the hard decision..
We have an RV-4 and are building a RV-10. I have flown a number of times 3
different RV-10's and it is a great plane and I can't wait to finish mine.
For the pure joy of flying nothing I have ever flown can touch the RV-4. I
just got back from flying over to the airport to get my flight Physical, of
course I had to check what the earth looked like upside down and make sure
that the runway was clear before I landed :) After a busy day at work it is
amazing what a 30 minute flight can do for your stress level.
If you want an airplane for traveling with 2 or more people start the RV-10,
if you want a plane for mostly just flying around finish the RV-7.
My neighbor sold his Lancair 320 last year and purchased a Bonanza for
hauling his two kids along. The kids almost never fly in it and he really misses
his Lancair, this month is annual time for it so that should be even more fun.
When I actually finish the RV-10 and my wife says one must go....
I am really going to miss her.
Rob Hickman
N401RH RV-4
#40204 RV-10 Under Construction.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trevor Mills" <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au> |
I am suffering from spending too much time away from my project, Can anyone tell
me what the F-810A is ?
The section of the manual is Upper Skins and says that the F810A to the F-818PP.
Is this for an 8 A. or have I just lost the plot ?
Thanks
Trevor Mills 80605.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com> |
G'day Trevor, it's the upper part of the F810 bulkhead and it will be
riveted to the F819.
Greg
>
> I am suffering from spending too much time away from my project, Can
anyone tell me what the F-810A is ?
>
> The section of the manual is Upper Skins and says that the F810A to the
F-818PP.
>
> Is this for an 8 A. or have I just lost the plot ?
>
> Thanks
>
> Trevor Mills 80605.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Wing Installation |
Listers,
OK, this has gone on long enough. If it wasn't such a pitiful response from this
list it would be funny. Bob is asking someone with access to an RV-7 to take
one simple measurement. In return he has got nothing but opinions. He doesn't
want your advice, opinion, philosophy or standard protocol for top or bottom
posting. HE JUST WANTS A &*
%**
%# MEASUREMENT! I really think Bob is being too nice. He has asked numerous
times and hasn't lost total patience. I have! I will repeat his simple request:
>Now, please. I beg you. Can you take a moment to drop a tape
> measure from the scarf joint and tell me the distance to the belly?We'll
make it simple. Fill in this form.... The distance from the floor to the scarf
joint is _______ inches. (I'm sure Bob will accept measurements in centimeters
if that is your preference.) If you don't have access to a RV-7 don't answer.
If you have anRV-7 but don't have a tape measure, don't answer. If you
have an opinion, advice, philosophy and no measurement, don't answer. If you
have flames and no measurement, don't answer.Ron SchreckRV-8 (But wish it was
a RV-7 just for Bob's sake)
>
> Bob, why not make it a geometry exercise? Somewhere in the plans (at
> least for a -6) is the dihedral angle and you can supply the distance
> from the fuselage side or centerline. A little trig will give you the
> rise. If trig is long forgotten, post the angle and distance and 40
> people will give you the answer.
You know how I always point out I flunked shop in high school. I was better
in
shop than I was i trig. (g)
But, yeah, I thought of that this afternoon as I realized how hard it was
going
to be to get the information.
Does Matronics host a trig group?(g)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | space above cooling plenum |
I am making a fiberglass cooling plenum and am trying to decide how much
spce to provide between the upper cowl and the top of the plenum.
Right now it is at least 1/4" everywhere, except at cyl. #1 which is
pretty tight. I'm sanding down a foam mold to do the lay-up, so I can
sand it further and create more space. For those of you who have made
plenums, can you advise me if 1/4" is enough clearance?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Medema" <doug.medema(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Interior and paint scheme pictures |
I've made up a real simple web site that has pictures of my
Flightline Interior installed
as well as some pictures of a model I made to try out some
different paint schemes.
Check it out: http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM (needs a condition inspection this month -- 2
years already!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Central Texas RV'ers |
Join the fraternity of Texas RV'ers...
CenTex_RV_Aircraft-subscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jordan Grant <gra9933(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel System discussion |
>Thanks for the response and photos. Good info on both the gascolator and valve.
>
>
You betcha.
>Is your AFPinstall004 photo a later view of the same place as mount 1, 2, 3, and
4
>are? I can't tell for sure but if it is, I can see how your flow transducer is
>attached.
>
>
>
I should have been more specific on those photos. The AFPinstall004 is
my actual installation, while the other 4 photos are from somebody
else's installation - I don't really remember for sure who it was. I
think it may have been Dan Checkoway. I used those to help me with mine.
Like I said, my flow transducer is wedged in there but I think there are
probably better solutions out there.
>I was thinking about my valve being installed as yours is - with the addition
>of fuel guages on either side of the valve (valve points to the pertinent guage).
>
>
>
I think your VM1000 has fuel quantity functions, doesn't it? I guess you
just want some redundancy?
>I already have some wiring going through the spar penetration provided for in
the
>kit so I may need to place my pump differently.
>
>
>
I'm not sure what you mean here. I put a bunch of wiring through the
spar penetration, too. You just have to snake it around the fuel tubes
in there - no big deal.
>>From what I can see from your photos, your system is plumbed:
>
>Tank(s) to valve
>Valve to boost pump
>Boost pump to filter
>Filter to flow transducer
>Flow transducer to firewall
>
>>From the firewall, I know that the pressure transducer, mechanical pump, and
>injection system still need connections - any info on the forward side would be
>appreciated. Where does your fuel line(s), Purge cable, throttle cable, mixture
>cable, and prop cable go through the firewall.
>
>
>
That's correct. After that:
Firewall to Mech fuel pump
Mech fuel pump to throttle body
Throttle body to distribution "spider"
"Spider" to cylinders
Purge Line:
In my picture of the engine installation, you can see the fuel purge
line coming off of the valve, going through a grommet in the baffles,
and connecting to a bulkhead fitting on the upper/right firewall. From
there, the fuel is routed via 1/4" aluminum tubing down the side of the
aircraft, right next to the right side fuel vent line. I added another
bulkhead fitting next to the fuel vent line fitting in the forward wing
root area. From there, a short length of tubing connects that fitting to
the fuel tank fitting. The fuel tank just has a simple bulkhead fitting
with a short length of tubing inside it that dumps the purge fuel in the
second bay of the fuel tank. I wanted the return fuel in the second bay
so that the hot fuel doesn't just get immediately pumped out again when
doing the purge operation.
Purge Cable:
You can see that in the picture as well. After going through the
baffles, it just goes right through the firewall in a convenient place -
it mostly depends on where you want to mount the purge handle on your
instrument panel engine control panel.Note the small angle that is
bolted to the upper engine. I just used an Adel clamp around the purge
cable and bolted to that small angle to secure it.
Throttle Cable/Mixture Cable:
I'm going to send a couple of separate E-mails with pictures of stuff.
The mixture cable is probably the trickiest. I'm told its a real pain
for nose-draggers. I had to use the 'one-hole' firewall penetration
fitting from aircraft spruce because I needed the cable to penetrate the
firewall at an angle.
>Additionally, it looks like your purge valve is mounted standing up - mine is
>mounted laying down. The stand-up version allows for a nicer mounting of cable.
>Guess I need to contact AFP about getting the other version. I'm also using a
Sam
>James cowl and plenum so the stand-up purge valve is even more important for that
>reason.
>
>Looks like you have a system with a lot of similarities to mine - so I may come
back
>with some more ?????
>
ts kind of hard to explain these things in E-mail sometimes, so if some
of that doesn't make sense, send me your question.
Jordan Grant
Painting/Assembling
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Interior and paint scheme pictures |
Wow, your sure putting in the time. Im sure it will come out nice.
I still havent painted my 6a and have been thinking about schemes for 3
years while photographing hundreds of them. I finally figured out what made
one scheme catch my eye while the other didnt, even though they were very
similar. I was speaking with the owner of a 6a at OshKosh last summer and
was complimenting him on his paint job. Its a very common 2 tone, white
top, red bottom with a couple of stripes separating them mid way through the
fuse. He mentioned the trick is to blend the significant color changes with
an intermediate color(s). In his case, he had the following: red top,
1/2"black stripe,1/2"grey stripe, then white. I have pictures if you would
like. The revealing thing to me is that the plane next to him is red and
white with a large gray stripe and doesnt look nearly as good imo. He had a
lot of lookers for a simple paint job.
Either way, its your baby and you have to paint it the way you like.
If you're looking for opinions, I like the fuse striping with no blue and
white colors together. One of your last photos shows just red and blue
which I think looks good.
Good luck.
Shemp
Hoping to paint one day.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Medema" <doug.medema(at)comcast.net>
Subject: RV-List: Interior and paint scheme pictures
>
> I've made up a real simple web site that has pictures of my
> Flightline Interior installed
> as well as some pictures of a model I made to try out some
> different paint schemes.
>
> Check it out: http://home.comcast.net/~doug.medema/
>
> Doug Medema
> RV-6A N276DM (needs a condition inspection this month -- 2
> years already!)
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | RE: Wing installation |
Bob,
I have found lots of uses for the moving dollies that harbor freight often
has on sale for about $16. It is a simple platform of maybe 1" thick by 5"
wide boards (Asian standard sizes, maybe?) with carpet wrapped around the
upper boards, and big casters under each corner. The overall size is
something like 16" x 22". You might strap an adjustable plastic sawhorse to
one or two of these. I bought the first ones just to get the casters for my
wing storage stand. They were less expensive that way than without the wood
frame.
Terry
RV-8A finishing?
Seattle
You know those carts they have at Home Depot for carring drywall and stuff
horizontally? It's basically the same thing. The problem I have with "help"
is I can get it in short bursts (I do most of my work either late in the
evening or just after everyone goes to work in the morning). So this will
provide a real safety net for the wing in case (a) somebody drops an end or
(b) it has to -- for reasons of resources -- it has to sit for a bit until
the next helper(s) can be found. It will also give me a place to put the
wing when I bring it up from the cradle (currently in the family room) so I
don't have to put it on the snow outside. And it automatically would provide
support once one wing is in place before attaching the next one. I plan to
adjust the height so it's consistent with the dihedral and applies a good,
solid support along the main spar. It only take about 20 minutes to build,
will provide a nice level of safety, save time, and when I'm done I can just
take it apart and burn it or reuse the pieces and I don't have a dilapidated
office chair to pay to get rid of (g)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
"RV3 list" , "RV List"
| Subject: | overhauling mags |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Hi gang -
Well it looks like a reasonably priced overhaul or rebuild of your mags has gone
down the tubes. You can thank your FAA for that. In order to rebuild and certify
aircraft parts the requirements for a shop are intolerable. My cousin
would do the best job you could pay for but he would have to completely change
his shop setup. The OH shop would have to be contained in it's own separate
environment and all parts would have to have cetification and be kept separate
from any non-certified parts and hardware - this includes screws, washers, etc.
I agree with him that this is too much trouble to go to for a part time activity.
Given the necessary changes, etc. it wouldn't pencil out for the consumer.
He would have to charge the same as any shop. We haven't even addressed
the insurance requirements. Sorry to get your hopes up. On the other hand,
if the owner didn't care about an 8313 or whatever it is, it might be a different
story.
jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
Howdy,
Today I had the opportunity to complete the installation of, and fly, a
TruTrak ADI. TruTrak does not really characterize it, but I would call it a
pseudo attitude indicator with track information.
Flying the instrument was interesting. It is quite a bit different than an
attitude indicator as it does not indicate actual attitude. The pseudo
pitch information is from solid state gyros and rate of climb information.
In an high performance airplane like an RV you get much bigger pseudo pitch
deflections than you are used to. It looked to me like someone that was not
used to flying an attitude indicator in IFC would find this instrument a bit
easier as you will hold altitude pretty well if you just line up the level
flight balls. For someone really used to an AI I think it would be quite a
transition. Long ingrained habits do not work well with this instrument.
As in my Dynon EFIS D-10A, things also seem a little delayed and jiggly,
compared to actual physical gyros, not really that big a deal.
That real downer is that this instrument uses, like the XM antenna in my
Garmin 396, a very magnetic GPS antenna. This is completely inappropriate
in an aluminum airplane and makes it very difficult to mount the antenna in
a position that does not direly affect the magnetic compass. These
companies badly need to find a supplier without magnets, for the GA market.
By the way, this instrument is a killer substitute for a turn coordinator.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Howdy Larry,
GPS antennas can be had here (and I'm sure other places too):
http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/gps_antenna.html
or you could cut 'em open like Dan did to get rid of the magnet.
Please post follow ups on flying the ADI. I'm thinking about using it as
primary and I'd like to hear if it grows on you as you fly it more.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
>Howdy,
That real downer is that this instrument uses, like the XM antenna in my
Garmin 396, a very magnetic GPS antenna. This is completely
inappropriate
in an aluminum airplane and makes it very difficult to mount the antenna
in
a position that does not direly affect the magnetic compass. These
companies badly need to find a supplier without magnets, for the GA
market.
By the way, this instrument is a killer substitute for a turn
coordinator.
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Crossover exhaust. |
Question on exhaust:
Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a GOOD reason the front
two pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says
that Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I
wonder why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump
and dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders
heating up the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe
configuration and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the engine?
Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it out the
cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A Lancair 360
builder I know built his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts.
He says the crossover setup actually creates back pressure that robs engine
power. Airplane isn't flying yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it.
Another Q200 builder did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine
and says there has been a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps (and no
engine performance degradation). I can't believe this hasn't come up before,
anybody know the answer? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust
has to crossover? Is this another thing we builders do just because
production aircraft did it and because everyone else does it? Larry
Vetterman why aren't you building NON-crossover exhaust?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Installing exhaust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Crossover exhaust. |
On 20 Nov 2005, at 01:06, DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote:
>
>
> What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust
> has to crossover? Is this another thing we builders do just because
> production aircraft did it and because everyone else does it? Larry
> Vetterman why aren't you building NON-crossover exhaust?
CAFE Foundation testing suggests that a well tuned 4 into 1 exhaust
system would probably make more power than a cross-over system. Note
that they did not actually measure horsepower. They put pressure
probes in the intake and exhaust system, and measured the intake and
exhaust ports and looked at what the pressure values were when the
valves were open.
http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/EPG%20PART%20IV.pdf
They describe the theory behind a cross-over design on page 6 of the
pdf file. The conclusions on the last two pages are worth reading.
There are more details on how they measured the pressures here:
http://www.cafefoundation.org/aprs/epg.pdf
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com> |
>
> Howdy Larry,
>
> GPS antennas can be had here (and I'm sure other places too):
>
> http://www.rst-engr.com/rst/catalog/gps_antenna.html
>
> or you could cut 'em open like Dan did to get rid of the magnet.
>
> Please post follow ups on flying the ADI.
Excellent tip on the RST link. I wonder if the connector on the ADI antenna
is one of the ones listed. It is tiny, something like 3 mm diameter and one
I haven't seen before. Even if RST will sell the proper antenna it is a
pity that one should have to buy another antenna. When I saw the magnet on
this aircraft antenna and old phrase involving a boar hog came to mind.
I probably won't post follow ups as this instrument is not in my airplane
and I won't get a chance to fly it that often.
Regards,
Larry Pardue
Carlsbad, NM
RV-6 N441LP Flying
http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sherri & Paul Richardson" <prichar(at)mail.win.org> |
We were able to take our magnet out by positioning the antenna with magnet
on a steel beam and then prying the antenna off of it. Works very well right
next to the compass now.
Paul Richardson
106RV with Trutrak ADI
> From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
> Subject: RV-List: TruTrak ADI
>
........
> That real downer is that this instrument uses, like the XM antenna in my
> Garmin 396, a very magnetic GPS antenna. This is completely inappropriate
> in an aluminum airplane and makes it very difficult to mount the antenna
> in
> a position that does not direly affect the magnetic compass. These
> companies badly need to find a supplier without magnets, for the GA
> market.
>
> By the way, this instrument is a killer substitute for a turn coordinator.
>
> Larry Pardue
> Carlsbad, NM
>
> RV-6 N441LP Flying
> http://n5lp.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "George Inman" <ghinman(at)mts.net> |
| Subject: | space above cooling plenum |
I am making a fiberglass cooling plenum and am trying to decide how much
spce to provide between the upper cowl and the top of the plenum.
Right now it is at least 1/4" everywhere, except at cyl. #1 which is
pretty tight. I'm sanding down a foam mold to do the lay-up, so I can
sand it further and create more space. For those of you who have made
plenums, can you advise me if 1/4" is enough clearance?
--
Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
TOM;
The following is a quote from the
installation guide
for van's baffle kit.
STEP I I - BAFFLE TO COWL, GAP CLEARANCE TRIM:
Trim for baffle to upper cowl, gap clearance. Gap should be 3/8" min.
1/2" max. To prevent cowl chafing, cutting the airseal fabric or section
blowout. The engine cowl is attached rigidly to the airframe while the
engine is free to move around quite a bit on the shock mounts
from "G" loads and during start up and shut down.
For this reason, accurate clearance is important.
.
George Inman
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | space above cooling plenum |
>
> I am making a fiberglass cooling plenum and am trying to
> decide how much
> spce to provide between the upper cowl and the top of the plenum.
> Right now it is at least 1/4" everywhere, except at cyl. #1
> which is pretty tight. I'm sanding down a foam mold to do
> the lay-up, so I can sand it further and create more space.
> For those of you who have made plenums, can you advise me if
> 1/4" is enough clearance?
> --
> Tom Sargent, RV-6A, baffles.
Tom, I don't have a plenum, but I'd sure think 1/4" would be asking for
trouble, especially if it is towards the outboard top of a cylinder. The
engine rotates about its fore/aft axis a lot more than one can imagine, when
you shut down or start up. I know also that my alternator pulley rubs from
time to time, and it is probably 3/8" from the cowl. That would be more
from up/down motion, such as g loads.
Watch someone start their RV with the cowl off sometime, for example, after
they change oil, and you will be amazed.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 691 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Kiekover" <stneki(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Senenich prop wanted. |
Wanted Sensenich prop for RV-7A with O-360. Please email me or call
616-402-0038 ask for Steve
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV: Crossover exhaust (best exhaust & where heat comes from) |
Dear Dean:
Good question but the exhaust pipes near the sump
have nothing to do with oil temp and the "Y" exhaust
pipe is the worst type you can have for making HP.
(I'LL EXPLAIN BELOW)
>From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" ><dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
>Subject: RV-List: Crossover exhaust.
>
>Question on exhaust:
>
>Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is
>there a GOOD reason the front two pipes have
>to cross over before they go out the cowling?
>Everyone says that Lycomings have to have an
>oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I
>wonder why...two hot exhaust pipes run right
>past the front of the oil sump and dump gobs of
>heat into the oil (in addition to the rear
>cylinders heating up the sides of the sump)!!!
The Exhaust is not heating the sump and oil.
The valves are heating the oil. The process or
byproduct of combustion is (mechanical work/power
and heat), LOTS OF HEAT. The valves are the hottest
part and cooled by oil. Those drain tubes the run
from the head to the sump are full of very very hot
oil from cooling the valves. The oil temp off the valves
is 20F-25F hotter than what you read on the oil
temp gauge! Dont worry about the exhaust. The
sump is giving off heat not absorbing it. If the exhaust
is heating the oil it is worth 1 degree F. If you where
worried you could bond insulation on the sump but
think you would find you would increase oil temp.
The pipes would have to transfer their temp thru
convection or radiant. EGT is say 1400F near the
port flange, but by the time it makes it down further
it mixes with air and has given heat off and is less
than 1000F. The radiant heat 6" away is not that
great. There is lots of air blowing around in the lower
cowl also. THE BIGGEST PEOBLEM IS THE
EXHAUST is HEATING THE INTAKE TUBES. THIS
is WHERE YOU SHOULD WORRY ABOUT exhaust
heat. Off the topic, but true.
>So why not trash this exhaust pipe configuration
>and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of
>the engine? Just bring the two pipes together off
>the same side and dump it out the cowling without
>crossing over in front of the oil pan. A Lancair
>360 builder I know built his own exhaust like this
>from Aircraft Spruce parts. He says the crossover
>setup actually creates back pressure that robs
>engine power. Airplane isn't flying yet but I certainly
>see his logic in doing it. Another Q200 builder did
>the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine
>and says there has been a noticeable difference in
>under-cowl temps (and no engine performance
>degradation). I can't believe this hasn't come up
>before, anybody know the answer? What wives-tail
>or urban legend says the exhaust has to crossover?
The "Y" exhaust is the worst. This in not opinion
this is fact born out by flight test and dyno runs.
Your buddies do not know what or how a Lycoming
fires and how exhaust work. Because the firing order
is 1-3 than 2-4 (meaning the two cylinders on one
side fire right after each other. You are trying to
pump two cylinders into one collector at one time).
The "Y" is simple and easy to make, BUT the worst
exhaust system you can make. Tell your buddies they
would be better off with 4 separate pipes. Really
4-separate pipes are not bad and really better than a
"Y" pipe. Vetterman makes these 4into4's. A "Y" pipe
is easy and works but it adds nothing. However factory
exhaust on Pipers and Cessnas are worse, so if you
want to do that fine but you may be loosing 15-20 HP
over the the best exhaust (WHICH IS NOT A CROSS
OVER). Also I doubt the "Y" pipe will lower oil temp.
In fact if you properly install a proper SW cooler
(Stewart Warner/South Wind not a clone cooler) you
will not have a oil temp problem.
>Is this another thing we builders do just
>because production aircraft did it and because
>everyone else does it? Larry Vetterman why
>aren't you building NON-crossover exhaust?
Because the 2 into 1 "Y" is crap. He does make
the 4-into-4. Look exhaust always has some
back-pressure during the middle later stages of
the exhaust cycle. In this part of cycle 4 inch
straight pipes stub pipes sticking right out the
side of the cowl would be best. However not
practical and The REAL magic is SCAVIGING
(which stubs have none). You want the exhaust
port to see negative pressure just before it closes.
This is the point the intake is also open at the
same time (called overlap). This promotes the
incoming fuel air mixture entering the cylinder,
in other words there is no backpressure at the
intake port at the start of the intake cycle. You
want the cylinder to be totally evacuated of exhaust
and even a little suck or scavenge at the start of
the intake valve opening. You also want a little
scavenging at the the EVO (exhaust valve opening).
The 4-into-1 does this well. The down side is you
need 19-30 inches of collector to optimize the
4-into-1 effect. However even a short 10" collector
will provide free HP, at least over any other
exhaust and will provide more even power between
cylinders.
(read the caf foundation 3-part reports on the web
cafefoundation.org, and write EAA that they should
support and publish CF articles.) BTW cross over is
not that great due to odd length pipe lengths. It thus
produces uneven power from the different cylinders.
The hand down winner is 4-into-1. Tied for second
is 4 into 4 and cross over. A distant last place is
a "Y" pipe.
>Dean Psiropoulos
Install your Vetterman as is now and go fly. You could
consider ceramic coating but DON'T TAPE THEM IN
HEAT WRAP, it will crack the pipe. Vettterman does
not like the ceramic but it is gaining favor. IF you want
the best performance exhaust sell the vetterman and
get a 4-into-1 from aircraftexhaust systems in MN.
(You have a "A" model RV and its hard to make a true
tuned tube length 4into1 with a nose gear in the way,
but AE can do it if you want. Tell them RV7 George
sent you.) http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/
DON'T let your buddies talk you into Y pipes and you
will have no oil temp problems if you use a SW cooler.
The pipes are not the problem. If any one argues that
the "Y" pipe does not loose HP have them read the
Cafe Reports, it is obvious what the best is.
PS: Consider ceramic coating inside AND outside the
pipes. You cannot coat the pipe where the heat muff.
In fact you should not coat the entire length of the pipe
withthe heat muff, but the other pipes can be coated
from exhaust flange to the aft end or logical slip joint.
I do not NOT recommend leaving just a band of pipe
un-coated where the heat muff. The discontinuity in the
middle of a pipe could cause a crack (due to thermal
stress).
George
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Senenich prop wanted. |
I believe there's one for sale on Vansairforce.net..
do no archive
Steve Kiekover wrote:
Wanted Sensenich prop for RV-7A with O-360. Please email me or call
616-402-0038 ask for Steve
Darrell
RV7A - 622DR Reserved
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Fw: Vetterman Exhaust |
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry & Cathy Vetterman
Subject: Re: Vetterman Exhaust
My response is simple, The pipes do not heat up the oil. The mass airflow over
the cylinders and then over the pipes actually helps cool the engine,ie cylinder
temps which translates into oil temps. If you don't believe me, install the
exhaust wrap on the system (insulating blamket) that is becoming popular and
watch your cylinder temps and oil temps go up then watch your system melt off
of the engine. This wrap is supposed to keep the engine conmpartment ie. cowling
cool. Nope it does'nt work that way as it goes against all air cooled engine
theory. Why don't we connect two pipes into one one each side. It is so simple
to do it that way but because Lycoming chose to make the firing order 1324
on most 4 cylinder engines, that is front to back , placing a simple Y system
exhaust costs about 10 to 14 percent power. Because of this front to back
firing order, 2 exhaust pulses are try to occupy the same tubing area at the same
time. It creates a large and uneven back pressure on the cylinders and creates
what is know as a dirty charge on the intake stroke. This is just a simple
over view as it is more complex than stated. We didn't invent exhaust systems
for the 4 cylinder Lycoming but I have personally tried every comination that
we could get under the" Hood" and the crossover provides the best of the
four things desired. 1. Good power at 65 to 75 percent power. 2 Adequate room
for cabin and carb heat muffs. 3. By design, breakage is kept to a minimum
so you can fly to destinations far from home and not worry about exhaust problems.
4. the system is affordable-- there are systems out there that claim increased
power etc. at twice the cost. I have tried them and my RV just doesn't
seem to go any faster with other designs. So there it is. I invite any one
to call and discuss this with me. Regards Larry D. Veterman
----- Original Message -----
From: LarryRobertHelming
To: vetxaust(at)gwtc.net
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 5:41 AM
Subject: Vetterman Exhaust
Picked this up and forwarded to you from the RV-List. I too am interested in
your response. Thanks. Indiana Larry in Evansville, RV7 Tip Up SunSeeker
Question on exhaust:
Parallel valve Lycoming 4 cylinder engine. Is there a GOOD reason the front
two pipes have to cross over before they go out the cowling? Everyone says
that Lycomings have to have an oil cooler because the oil runs hot. Gee I
wonder why...two hot exhaust pipes run right past the front of the oil sump
and dump gobs of heat into the oil (in addition to the rear cylinders
heating up the sides of the sump)!!! So why not trash this exhaust pipe
configuration and go to a simple 2 into 1 set up on each side of the engine?
Just bring the two pipes together off the same side and dump it out the
cowling without crossing over in front of the oil pan. A Lancair 360
builder I know built his own exhaust like this from Aircraft Spruce parts.
He says the crossover setup actually creates back pressure that robs engine
power. Airplane isn't flying yet but I certainly see his logic in doing it.
Another Q200 builder did the same thing with his 0-200 Continental engine
and says there has been a noticeable difference in under-cowl temps (and no
engine performance degradation). I can't believe this hasn't come up before,
anybody know the answer? What wives-tail or urban legend says the exhaust
has to crossover? Is this another thing we builders do just because
production aircraft did it and because everyone else does it? Larry
Vetterman why aren't you building NON-crossover exhaust?
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Installing exhaust
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Doug Medema" <doug.medema(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Paint scheme question |
If you looked at my website after my previous post, you know
I'm seriously
contemplating painting my plane a dark blue (actually
Chevrolet Indigo Blue
like on my TrailBlazer.) I know a dark colored car can get
very hot inside
but am wondering if it makes much difference on an RV. We
have the clear
canopy and mine already has a black glareshield. The only
area in the cockpit
that would be affected is the area over the back of the
baggage compartment.
So, any of you that have dark paint on the top -- does your
cockpit get really
hot in the sun, or do you think it is about the same as a
lighter color?
Thanks,
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM down for 2nd condition inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Hangar space @ CNO available |
Hangar space @ CNO for an RV sized aircraft will be available immediately.
If interested please call me. John D'Onofrio Cell # (949)394-1910.
_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Paint scheme question |
Hi Doug,
Go for the dark color - I like to see some color on RV's! My older RV6 is
Black on top and my "almost finished" new RV6 is entirely White. In all
reality not much difference at all when flying, and frankly not much
difference on the ground. In the hot sun, they both are hotter than heck
under that big piece of glass until you get moving, but once flying
everything is ok.
There's sure to be debate about the darker vs. light colors, but the reality
is that it really doesn't make much difference at all.
Just my 2 cents as usual!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Doug Medema
Subject: RV-List: Paint scheme question
If you looked at my website after my previous post, you know
I'm seriously
contemplating painting my plane a dark blue (actually
Chevrolet Indigo Blue
like on my TrailBlazer.) I know a dark colored car can get
very hot inside
but am wondering if it makes much difference on an RV. We
have the clear
canopy and mine already has a black glareshield. The only
area in the cockpit
that would be affected is the area over the back of the
baggage compartment.
So, any of you that have dark paint on the top -- does your
cockpit get really
hot in the sun, or do you think it is about the same as a
lighter color?
Thanks,
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM down for 2nd condition inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
Gentlemen,
At the initial fitting of the top cowl on my RV-9A/O-320/fixed
pitch, I find front of the top cowl is not parallel to the prop
spinner back plate when viewed from the side. At the top the
clearance is 1/4" and at the mid-point the clearance is 1/2".
When I add the bottom cowl I would expect the clearance at
the of the back will approach 3/4". This is with the cowl resting
on top of the forward skin.
The engine mount is tight against the firewall at all points. The
engine is tight against the Lord mounts (Dynafocal-1). The rubber
mounts are installed correctly: top has washer and thin hard rubber
away from engine, bottom has thin hard rubber and washer next to
engine. The spinner is positioned by using 6 2 1/4" pieces of tubing
and bolts.
I'm not sure if the top cowl is deformed and perhaps a heat gun could
be used to change its alignment. My thanks to Dan Checkoway for his
sage advice. He related this is a common problem and the solution
is to use foam and fiberglass fill to establish the proper clearance around
the spinner. Any additional idea fellows?
Many thanks,
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
RV-9A, N95JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Is it a bad idea for babies to fly in RV's?? |
| From: | "John Allen" <fliier(at)altrionet.com> |
What worked for us was to take those throwaway foam earplugs, compress the two
ends until flattened into a little pancake,then use a regular paper hole
punch ( the single hole kind)=A0to punch=A0out a "core"=A0 These mini-earplugs
were about the right size for the baby. Use a needle and some upholstery thread
to attach the two plugs together.=A0 That way it is less likely one of the
plugs goes missing. Babies put everything in their mouths and a piece of expanding
foam could be=A0VERY VERY=A0bad.=A0 Put a close fitting bonnet over the
babies head that ties under the chin=A0so that he can't get at the earplugs. Usually
the noise in the cabin put our daughter to sleeep.=A0 Every
time we descended it was necessary to wake the baby and get her drinking so as
to clear her ears.=A0 Descents needed to be planned in order to keep them gradual.
Now,
how you fit a full size carseat into the back of an RV
is a different matter. Clearly you would need to attach hard points to the
underlying structure.=A0 We took the baby all over the place in a C-150.=A0
In that airplane Cesna built the hard points for a child's seat into the airplane.
John Allen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
Hi All,
IMHO, the angle at the front of the cowl to the spinner is for ease of
maintenance. It is there to provide extra clearance when removing the bottom
cowl.
Bob, at Fairings-Etc., recommends to NOT use a heat gun on fiberglass to
change its shape.
After you have your RV together, and have taken the lower cowl off a couple
times, you can decide if you still want to fill the front of the cowl behind
the spinner.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 11/21/2005 8:28:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,
jconnell(at)rconnect.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Joe & Jan Connell"
Gentlemen,
At the initial fitting of the top cowl on my RV-9A/O-320/fixed
pitch, I find front of the top cowl is not parallel to the prop
spinner back plate when viewed from the side. At the top the
clearance is 1/4" and at the mid-point the clearance is 1/2".
When I add the bottom cowl I would expect the clearance at
the of the back will approach 3/4". This is with the cowl resting
on top of the forward skin.
The engine mount is tight against the firewall at all points. The
engine is tight against the Lord mounts (Dynafocal-1). The rubber
mounts are installed correctly: top has washer and thin hard rubber
away from engine, bottom has thin hard rubber and washer next to
engine. The spinner is positioned by using 6 2 1/4" pieces of tubing
and bolts.
I'm not sure if the top cowl is deformed and perhaps a heat gun could
be used to change its alignment. My thanks to Dan Checkoway for his
sage advice. He related this is a common problem and the solution
is to use foam and fiberglass fill to establish the proper clearance around
the spinner. Any additional idea fellows?
Many thanks,
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
RV-9A, N95JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim" <n144hr(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
a.. Gentlemen,
At the initial fitting of the top cowl on my RV-9A/O-320/fixed
pitch, I find front of the top cowl is not parallel to the prop
spinner back plate when viewed from the side. At the top the
clearance is 1/4" and at the mid-point the clearance is 1/2".
When I add the bottom cowl I would expect the clearance at
the of the back will approach 3/4". This is with the cowl resting
on top of the forward skin.
b.. This is typical. When you have it all fitted you can glue balsa to it, sand
it for the proper clearance and alignment behind the spinner and glass it
in. I would suggest fitting it so the spinner is .125-.250 above the cowl to
allow for engine mount rubbers to sag (wear in).
c..
The engine mount is tight against the firewall at all points. The
engine is tight against the Lord mounts (Dynafocal-1). The rubber
mounts are installed correctly: top has washer and thin hard rubber
away from engine, bottom has thin hard rubber and washer next to
engine. The spinner is positioned by using 6 2 1/4" pieces of tubing
and bolts.
I'm not sure if the top cowl is deformed and perhaps a heat gun could
be used to change its alignment.
d..
e.. The cowls are deformed. You can use a heat gun to take some of the misalignment
out but too much heat weakens the matrix in the fiberglass (according
to some experts).
My thanks to Dan Checkoway for his
sage advice. He related this is a common problem and the solution
is to use foam and fiberglass fill to establish the proper clearance around
the spinner. Any additional idea fellows?
Many thanks,
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
RV-9A, N95JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | GX60 internal battery |
Fellow listers,
I am getting an error message stating that my internal battery needs service in
my GX60. The unit continues to function - I just have to press the msg button
every few minutes.
This only started since I upgraded the datacard - that may be coincidental though.
Anyone else seen this? Is it home-repairable...with the correct battery? I have
done some miniature soldering so I could probably do it......
The archives show some of the portable units needing a similar repair - being done
by the owner. Sure would save some RV gas money!
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
In a message dated 11/21/05 10:28:08 AM Central Standard Time,
jconnell(at)rconnect.com writes:
> I find front of the top cowl is not parallel to the prop
> spinner back plate when viewed from the side.
>>>>
Had same problem here and have spoken with many others with similar
condition- some have actually cut the area loose and re-attached, I opted to fill
it in
as follows:
Get best top half to bottom half fit and have all attach hardware already
fitted- in other words, wait til cowling is in final installed position before
doing this. After spinner is fitted with desired clearance at closest point,
mark this position and two more points 120 degrees apart on cowling. Measure
gap at all three points, then calculate how thick filler will need to be at the
two wide points for a consistent fit. I needed about 4-5 mm added in both
positions, IIRC.
Remove cowl and re-attach the halves, stand on rear (nose up) and roughen up
the now-horizontal "ring" front face of cowling for epoxy/flox mixture. Drill
two small holes in the center of this "ring" at the two wide points you
marked on the cowl and insert small sheet metal or wood screws far enough that
the
tops of the heads are same distance from ring face as the excess gap measured
at these points earlier.
Find a board or other stiff, flat object larger than the circle of the ring
(I used a piece of formica-covered shelving that was wide enough) and cover one
side with release agent of choice (tape, wax paper etc.) Make up a thick
batch of flox (p-nut butter) and smear it onto ring surface approximating amount
of filler needed, then set the board onto the whole thing making sure it is in
contact with the cowl at the good spot, and both screw heads. After initial
set (still tacky), remove board & screws, carve off any squeeze out before it
gets real hard, and separate the halves at the join line by carefully carving
with a hacksaw blade or coping saw, then finish as usual. Mine came out with
nice even gap all the way around.
Any questions, lemme know-
Mark Phillips -6A N51PW (PossumWorks) Columbia, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | AN bulkhead fuel fittings |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
1.66 HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (DHCP)
1.28 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC)
1.36 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP
addr 1)
I'm installing the fuel and vent lines in my RV-9 and could do
with some advice.
1. I'm not sure what torque setting to use on the bulkhead nut
nor the nut that holds down the flared sleeve (1/4 and 3/8 alum
tube).
2. Where should one apply the EZ-Turn/Fuelube ? On just the
fitting thread ? Should I put any on the flared faces or
around the tube where the sleeve meets the flare ?
3. Do folks use Loctite Threadlocker on the bulkhead nuts to
stop them rattling loose ? If so which one #222, 242 or 262 ?
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Just got back from a weeks vacation and one of my hanger neighbors told me
of a Lancair hangered across from RV9A who was possibly hit by static
discharge (lightning) while hard IFR. The Dynon failed including a separate
buss electrical backup system. Fortunately, the backup came back online in
ten or fifteen seconds and he was able to descend out of the layer two or
three minutes later nose down and in a thirty degree bank. He said he
attributes being here today by just finishing a course with Flight Safety
recently. He's also purpertedly to have said he's installing a new vaccum
backup system.
> Alex,
>
> Everyone can agree that all of the EFIS have had some teething issues,
> some more than others. But if we consider all the instruments and
> systems a single EFIS/EIS replaces, or never were even available before,
> it would seem that the 'inop rate' is actually very low, especially for
> a sophisticated, complex instrument right out of the gate. If we
> tallied all the problems that we would have with the old individual
> instruments, I'm guessing the total would be significantly greater than
> what is seen with these new electronic systems. It gets noticed more
> when all the malfunctions that could possibly happen show up in one
> instruments...it may seem like a lot but doubt that it really is.
>
> Heck, the eInstruments for GA have only had 2-3 real years to sort
> things out. The aircraft industry has been perfecting the vacuum pump
> and instruments for decades and they still crap out with frustrating
> regularity, so I think we're making progress.
>
> Chuck
> Dual GRT EFIS (and satisfied with 'em)
>
> Larry, sorry you are having troubles with the Dynon.
>
> While we can't possibly know what the failure rate for this system (or
> any
> other new EFIS) is yet, we must be humble to how difficult it is to
> design a
> device of this complexity with minimal failure potentials.
>
> I'm sure this will bring on the torches, but we seem to be in a period
> right
> now where there are more problems with the new EFIS systems than with
> the
> ancient mechanical systems they are replacing. This will change, of
> course,
> but be aware that this is often the nature of new technology. There are
> no
> free lunches.
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A N66AP 690 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AN bulkhead fuel fittings |
1. I'm not aware of any specific torque for bulkhead nuts, but I would
personally torque the bulkhead nuts tighter than the torque called out for
the AN fitting. That way it's unlikely to loosen at the bulkhead if and
when you are tightening/loosening the flare nut(s).
2. Only lube PIPE THREADS. NO lube goes on any threads or flares on flare
nut fittings. ONLY the pipe threads.
3. I didn't personally use any thread locker on my AN bulkhead nuts. On my
fuel tanks, the bulkhead nuts got covered with proseal, which should help to
keep them in place. On the fuselage & firewall, I didn't use any locking
agent. Some people might, and I doubt that would be a problem.
Just my 2 cents.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (690 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Subject: RV-List: AN bulkhead fuel fittings
>
> I'm installing the fuel and vent lines in my RV-9 and could do
> with some advice.
>
> 1. I'm not sure what torque setting to use on the bulkhead nut
> nor the nut that holds down the flared sleeve (1/4 and 3/8 alum
> tube).
>
> 2. Where should one apply the EZ-Turn/Fuelube ? On just the
> fitting thread ? Should I put any on the flared faces or
> around the tube where the sleeve meets the flare ?
>
> 3. Do folks use Loctite Threadlocker on the bulkhead nuts to
> stop them rattling loose ? If so which one #222, 242 or 262 ?
>
> __g__
>
> =========================================================
> Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
> Tel: 415 203 9177
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: AN bulkhead fuel fittings |
I haven't found a torque setting on these. There may
be one there, but I've always tightened them snug
without issue. Fuel lube on the threads, but not on
the flare. I would NOT put threadlocker on them. I
try to avoid that stuff whenever possible. Just
something else to introduce into fuel lines. Put some
torque seal on there so you can visually inspect them.
Paul Besing
--- Gerry Filby wrote:
>
>
> I'm installing the fuel and vent lines in my RV-9
> and could do
> with some advice.
>
> 1. I'm not sure what torque setting to use on the
> bulkhead nut
> nor the nut that holds down the flared sleeve (1/4
> and 3/8 alum
> tube).
>
> 2. Where should one apply the EZ-Turn/Fuelube ? On
> just the
> fitting thread ? Should I put any on the flared
> faces or
> around the tube where the sleeve meets the flare ?
>
> 3. Do folks use Loctite Threadlocker on the bulkhead
> nuts to
> stop them rattling loose ? If so which one #222,
> 242 or 262 ?
>
> __g__
>
>
=========================================================
>
> Gerry Filby
> gerf(at)gerf.com
> Tel: 415 203 9177
>
>
>
> Click on
> about
> provided
> www.buildersbooks.com,
> Admin.
> _->
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
>
>
>
>
>
__________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dynon Failure Mode |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
Chuck
Very interested in the failure mode from the lightening. From your
comment, it was apparent that the EFIS went down. However, did the
plane lose ALL electrical, did the A/P not stay on, and if not, what is
it reliant on that failed? Other electrical equipment stay up? Curious
if a Mid-Continental AI (with battery back up) would have stayed up.
I'm sure everyone would be very interested in a forensic analysis of
what did, and what didn't happen. It is certainly a topical issue with
all the all-electrics being put in the air.
Chuck
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Weyant
Subject: Re: RV-List: Dynon Failure Mode
Just got back from a weeks vacation and one of my hanger neighbors told
me
of a Lancair hangered across from RV9A who was possibly hit by static
discharge (lightning) while hard IFR. The Dynon failed including a
separate
buss electrical backup system. Fortunately, the backup came back online
in
ten or fifteen seconds and he was able to descend out of the layer two
or
three minutes later nose down and in a thirty degree bank. He said he
attributes being here today by just finishing a course with Flight
Safety
recently. He's also purpertedly to have said he's installing a new
vaccum
backup system.
> Alex,
>
> Everyone can agree that all of the EFIS have had some teething issues,
> some more than others. But if we consider all the instruments and
> systems a single EFIS/EIS replaces, or never were even available
before,
> it would seem that the 'inop rate' is actually very low, especially
for
> a sophisticated, complex instrument right out of the gate. If we
> tallied all the problems that we would have with the old individual
> instruments, I'm guessing the total would be significantly greater
than
> what is seen with these new electronic systems. It gets noticed more
> when all the malfunctions that could possibly happen show up in one
> instruments...it may seem like a lot but doubt that it really is.
>
> Heck, the eInstruments for GA have only had 2-3 real years to sort
> things out. The aircraft industry has been perfecting the vacuum pump
> and instruments for decades and they still crap out with frustrating
> regularity, so I think we're making progress.
>
> Chuck
> Dual GRT EFIS (and satisfied with 'em)
>
> Larry, sorry you are having troubles with the Dynon.
>
> While we can't possibly know what the failure rate for this system (or
> any
> other new EFIS) is yet, we must be humble to how difficult it is to
> design a
> device of this complexity with minimal failure potentials.
>
> I'm sure this will bring on the torches, but we seem to be in a period
> right
> now where there are more problems with the new EFIS systems than with
> the
> ancient mechanical systems they are replacing. This will change, of
> course,
> but be aware that this is often the nature of new technology. There
are
> no
> free lunches.
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A N66AP 690 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: AN bulkhead fuel fittings |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
I guess that's the root of my nervousness. There's a part of
me that just doesn't trust the idea that the 2 surfaces that
make up the flare in a flare fitting can be vapor/liquid tight.
I guess I'm about to find out.
g
>
>
> 1. I'm not aware of any specific torque for bulkhead nuts, but I would
> personally torque the bulkhead nuts tighter than the torque
> called out for
> the AN fitting. That way it's unlikely to loosen at the
> bulkhead if and
> when you are tightening/loosening the flare nut(s).
>
> 2. Only lube PIPE THREADS. NO lube goes on any threads or
> flares on flare
> nut fittings. ONLY the pipe threads.
>
> 3. I didn't personally use any thread locker on my AN bulkhead
> nuts. On my
> fuel tanks, the bulkhead nuts got covered with proseal, which
> should help to
> keep them in place. On the fuselage & firewall, I didn't use
> any locking
> agent. Some people might, and I doubt that would be a problem.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (690 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
> To:
> Subject: RV-List: AN bulkhead fuel fittings
>
>
> >
> > I'm installing the fuel and vent lines in my RV-9 and could do
> > with some advice.
> >
> > 1. I'm not sure what torque setting to use on the bulkhead nut
> > nor the nut that holds down the flared sleeve (1/4 and 3/8 alum
> > tube).
> >
> > 2. Where should one apply the EZ-Turn/Fuelube ? On just the
> > fitting thread ? Should I put any on the flared faces or
> > around the tube where the sleeve meets the flare ?
> >
> > 3. Do folks use Loctite Threadlocker on the bulkhead nuts to
> > stop them rattling loose ? If so which one #222, 242 or 262 ?
> >
> > __g__
> >
> > =========================================================
> > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
> > Tel: 415 203 9177
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Don't know all the particulars --- just heard about it second party
yesterday. Should have more info this afternoon. I didn't ask your
questions in particular, but it sounded like electrical continued to
function, just EFIS and elecrical backup flight instruments went down.
However, I do have a call through to the fellow that told me about the
incident and I may run into Lancair pilot next day or two for a first hand
account. I'll post as new info comes in.
Chuck
>
> Chuck
>
> Very interested in the failure mode from the lightening. From your
> comment, it was apparent that the EFIS went down. However, did the
> plane lose ALL electrical, did the A/P not stay on, and if not, what is
> it reliant on that failed? Other electrical equipment stay up? Curious
> if a Mid-Continental AI (with battery back up) would have stayed up.
> I'm sure everyone would be very interested in a forensic analysis of
> what did, and what didn't happen. It is certainly a topical issue with
> all the all-electrics being put in the air.
>
> Chuck
>
>
> Just got back from a weeks vacation and one of my hanger neighbors told
> me
> of a Lancair hangered across from RV9A who was possibly hit by static
> discharge (lightning) while hard IFR. The Dynon failed including a
> separate
> buss electrical backup system. Fortunately, the backup came back online
> in
> ten or fifteen seconds and he was able to descend out of the layer two
> or
> three minutes later nose down and in a thirty degree bank. He said he
> attributes being here today by just finishing a course with Flight
> Safety
> recently. He's also purpertedly to have said he's installing a new
> vaccum
> backup system.
>
>> Alex,
>>
>> Everyone can agree that all of the EFIS have had some teething issues,
>> some more than others. But if we consider all the instruments and
>> systems a single EFIS/EIS replaces, or never were even available
> before,
>> it would seem that the 'inop rate' is actually very low, especially
> for
>> a sophisticated, complex instrument right out of the gate. If we
>> tallied all the problems that we would have with the old individual
>> instruments, I'm guessing the total would be significantly greater
> than
>> what is seen with these new electronic systems. It gets noticed more
>> when all the malfunctions that could possibly happen show up in one
>> instruments...it may seem like a lot but doubt that it really is.
>>
>> Heck, the eInstruments for GA have only had 2-3 real years to sort
>> things out. The aircraft industry has been perfecting the vacuum pump
>> and instruments for decades and they still crap out with frustrating
>> regularity, so I think we're making progress.
>>
>> Chuck
>> Dual GRT EFIS (and satisfied with 'em)
>>
>> Larry, sorry you are having troubles with the Dynon.
>>
>> While we can't possibly know what the failure rate for this system (or
>> any
>> other new EFIS) is yet, we must be humble to how difficult it is to
>> design a
>> device of this complexity with minimal failure potentials.
>>
>> I'm sure this will bring on the torches, but we seem to be in a period
>> right
>> now where there are more problems with the new EFIS systems than with
>> the
>> ancient mechanical systems they are replacing. This will change, of
>> course,
>> but be aware that this is often the nature of new technology. There
> are
>> no
>> free lunches.
>>
>> Alex Peterson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
----- Original Message -----
From: <LessDragProd(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner
back-plate
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> IMHO, the angle at the front of the cowl to the spinner is for ease of
> maintenance. It is there to provide extra clearance when removing the
> bottom cowl.
>
> Bob, at Fairings-Etc., recommends to NOT use a heat gun on fiberglass to
> change its shape.
>
> After you have your RV together, and have taken the lower cowl off a
> couple
> times, you can decide if you still want to fill the front of the cowl
> behind
> the spinner.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
Excellent advise, especially from a maintenance perspective. If you're going
for a "grand champion" airplane with perfectly symmetrical clearances
everywhere, fill the gap. Otherwise, leave the bigger gap at the bottom. If
you do fill the gap, the already tough chore of getting the bottom cowl
on/off is going to become a genuine nightmare.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
In a message dated 11/21/2005 5:13:09 PM Central Standard Time,
kboatright1(at)comcast.net writes:
If
you do fill the gap, the already tough chore of getting the bottom cowl
on/off is going to become a genuine nightmare.
>>>
Don't understand- mine is a fairly consistent 4-5 mm gap, and lower cowl
deplanes quite easily- I even quit putting protective tape on the fuse and cowl
to
protect from damage and have only minor difficulty clearing the inlet seals-
helluva slot for the sissygearleg, but pretty much a yawner to get the bottom
cowl off...........
Mark Phillips -6A, N51PW (PossumWorks in TN)
archive this? well, maybe...........................
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: AN bulkhead fuel fittings |
Don't worry. We manufacture and sell pressure sensors with a wide range
of pressure ratings and with all types of threads and fittings. The
ones that are sold for the highest pressures are the flare fittings.
Sensors with NPT threads and SAE threads with o-rings are basically
limited to 10,000 psi or lower. Flare fittings are sold to much higher
pressures than that.
The advice given by some others is wrong at best. On NPT threads do not
use thread lube, use a teflon based thread sealing paste. Try not to get
any on the first thread to keep it out of the system. On flare fittings
use fuel lube or thread lube on the threads (and sealing surfaces if you
want - it will be squeezed out when the threads are tightened anyway and
will prevent any galling).
Dick Tasker
Gerry Filby wrote:
>
>
>I guess that's the root of my nervousness. There's a part of
>me that just doesn't trust the idea that the 2 surfaces that
>make up the flare in a flare fitting can be vapor/liquid tight.
>I guess I'm about to find out.
>
>g
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner
back-plate
>
> In a message dated 11/21/2005 5:13:09 PM Central Standard Time,
> kboatright1(at)comcast.net writes:
> If
> you do fill the gap, the already tough chore of getting the bottom cowl
> on/off is going to become a genuine nightmare.
>>>>
>
> Don't understand- mine is a fairly consistent 4-5 mm gap, and lower cowl
> deplanes quite easily- I even quit putting protective tape on the fuse and
> cowl to
> protect from damage and have only minor difficulty clearing the inlet
> seals-
> helluva slot for the sissygearleg, but pretty much a yawner to get the
> bottom
> cowl off...........
>
> Mark Phillips -6A, N51PW (PossumWorks in TN)
>
> archive this? well, maybe...........................
A little back and forth, eh? ;-)
This may be another difference between the nosewheel and tailwheel versions.
On my tailwheel -6 the landing gear fairings make it impossible to remove
the lower cowl by dropping it vertically. To remove the lower cowl, I pull
the fasteners, then the cowl will drop an inch or so. At that point, the aft
edge is resting on the gear leg fairings and the front is captured by the
spinner, with a soft rag between the spinner and cowl. I use the ledge where
the aft cowl rests as a hinge point of sorts to lower the front of the cowl
(you've gotta flex it to clear the spinner). Once the front of the cowl is
free and clear of the spinner, I slide the entire cowl forward and off of
the gear leg fairing/hinge points to free it. Doable with 2 hands,
preferable to have a helper.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | RE: Crossover exhaust. |
Thanks for the explanation everyone:
That does make sense to me (about the power pulses and scavenging). I don't
know where my Lancair buddy got his info but we'll find out when he flies
whether it will be detrimental to engine operation. I was mistaken about
the Q200 builder, he did a 4 into 4 system NOT 4 into 2, I stand corrected.
But he still claims cooler under-cowl temperatures. Although the crossover
pipes are several inches away from the sump it still would seem to me that
some of their heat would end up in the oil. Maybe not, that may be an
experiment for when the airplane flies. In the meantime, Larry Vetterman,
I've mounted your exhaust system on my plane and will fly with it. It's a
known quantity, I'm not in the mood to do more fabrication at this point and
I don't have a welder so it's an easy decision. Thanks for making these
systems available (so we don't have to do more fabrication), especially
after 8+ years on the rest of the airplane.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Trying to keep the engine cool in the Florida heat....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 6A with AFP - looking for potential exhaust systems |
Fellow listers,
Anyone out there with a 6A and AFP injection - what did you use for exhaust systems
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
> This may be another difference between the nosewheel and tailwheel
versions.
> On my tailwheel -6 the landing gear fairings make it impossible to remove
> the lower cowl by dropping it vertically. To remove the lower cowl, I pull
> the fasteners, then the cowl will drop an inch or so. At that point, the
aft
> edge is resting on the gear leg fairings and the front is captured by the
> spinner, with a soft rag between the spinner and cowl. I use the ledge
where
> the aft cowl rests as a hinge point of sorts to lower the front of the
cowl
> (you've gotta flex it to clear the spinner). Once the front of the cowl is
> free and clear of the spinner, I slide the entire cowl forward and off of
> the gear leg fairing/hinge points to free it. Doable with 2 hands,
> preferable to have a helper.
Your mileage is definitely gonna vary on this one (particularly
tailwheel/nosewheel differences). To the original poster -- there is no
hard and fast answer.
My setup, just for another data point, is the opposite of Kyle's. I have
sliced the forward tops of my leg fairings away completely. It gets hidden
by the upper intersection fairings anyway. My process is: unscrew and drop
the upper intersection fairings. The top cowl goes straight down
vertically. No tipping or tilting required. In fact, if you tilt it, it
ain't gonna drop.
Getting it back on, it's the same deal. I get it in position fore/aft and
then raise it straight on up into position.
With a nosewheel setup, you don't have the mains or those fairings to deal
with. This is good. But you do have the nosegear strut. I suspect if you
cut a long enough SLOT in the bottom of your cowl, you'll be able to drop
the lower cowl down vertically. But that means you'll have a huge honkin'
hole there, like I think somebody else already mentioned.
So it will probably be a compromise, imho, of how much you want to slice
away, how much gap you need, and how much tilting of the cowl you need to
do. So I think everybody who has posted so far is correct in their own
right! ;-)
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (690 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Did he have a wing leveler/autopilot and was it affected?
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 6A with AFP - looking for potential exhaust systems |
>
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> Anyone out there with a 6A and AFP injection - what did you
> use for exhaust systems
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
Vetterman crossover - no parts even close.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 691 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 6A with AFP - looking for potential exhaust systems |
Alex,
Does your AFP injection system come out of the bottom of the sump - a la carburetor
replacement?
I have seen some that look like they come out of the front of the sump.
Looks like Mr Vetterman has his stuff together.......
Thanks
-----Original Message-----
From: Alex Peterson <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-List: 6A with AFP - looking for potential exhaust systems
>
>
> Fellow listers,
>
> Anyone out there with a 6A and AFP injection - what did you
> use for exhaust systems
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
Vetterman crossover - no parts even close.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 691 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | looking for potential exhaust systems |
Hi Ralph-
looking for potential exhaust systems
Fellow listers,
Anyone out there with a 6A and AFP injection - what did you use for exhaust
systems
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
You might try FORSLING AVIATION (JOHN) 303-841-6054 CUSTOM EXHAUST SYSTEMS
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: polished/painted airplane pics |
On 11/22 7:56, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote:
>
> I spent the weekend going though tons of RV websites looking for polished planes.....found very few. Just wondering if any of you guys can narrow the search for me. I just wanted to get some pictures to use as inspiration for paint schemes. There was an RV 8 I saw at Vans homecoming last year that was red on the front and had a polished tailcone...very pretty. Also for those who have not seen it check the link below to a picture of Jon Scholl's paint job.......its in the completions section on Vans site. http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/Scholl_lg.jpg Too cool, but maybe bad Ju Ju :)
I saved a bunch of images that I liked that were half paint half
polished aluminum, they can be found here.
http://www.rv7-a.com/paintschemes
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re:6A with AFP - looking for potential exhaust systems |
-6a, Superior XP-IO360 with horizontal induction. Vetterman exhaust, one of
the few items that fit perfectly out of the box. Might fly soon, and will give
report. This system has 2" outlets. We also have his crossover unit on a
flying -6a/Lyc 360, and zero problems at 400 hrs.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Fellow listers,
Anyone out there with a 6A and AFP injection - what did you use for exhaust
systems
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com> |
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0406 1.0000 -3.9094
In cleaning out the hangar for my new project, I have some parts for sale:
Vans EGT guage, new in box, $30(new from Vans, $44)
Electric Turn coordinator,lighted, like brand new, yellow tag $200
VAL Avionics INS422, Integrated Nav system- LOC/GS, LOC,VOR plus 3 light
marker.
see at valavionics.com. $1400 includes all antennas.
Al Grajek
algrajek(at)msn.com
859-361-9460
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Neil" <nfrance(at)avnet.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Re: 2" ID firesleeve? |
You could try ;
http://www.lightaero.co.uk/
Neil.
> Anyone know where I can get some 2" ID firesleeve?
>
> This is a bit larger than all the usual suspects
> seem to stock. I've tried Sacramento, Wicks, and
> Spruce.
>
> Perhaps if I knew the "generic" name for firesleeve
> I could find some at McMaster.com.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dynon Failure Mode |
Okay, got the rest of the story. ALL electrical failed. The wife in the
right seat said she heard a loud pop (thought it might be lightning --- it
wasn't) then all the electrical went out. Upon landing they noticed that
some of the paint from the leading edge of the wings had been blown off.
They're thinking that since there were no electrical discharge wicks
installed (This is a turbine Lancair) the static electricty built up on the
airframe and nearly catastrophically discharged to the atmosphere. I guess
this is important to plastic airplanes?
I guess the moral of this story is to make doubly sure all safety aspects to
our building are adhered too. You never know what seemingly insignificant
gremlin is waiting to screw up your day.
RV-List message posted by: "Chuck Weyant"
>
> Don't know all the particulars --- just heard about it second party
> yesterday. Should have more info this afternoon. I didn't ask your
> questions in particular, but it sounded like electrical continued to
> function, just EFIS and elecrical backup flight instruments went down.
> However, I do have a call through to the fellow that told me about the
> incident and I may run into Lancair pilot next day or two for a first hand
> account. I'll post as new info comes in.
> Chuck
>
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>> Very interested in the failure mode from the lightening. From your
>> comment, it was apparent that the EFIS went down. However, did the
>> plane lose ALL electrical, did the A/P not stay on, and if not, what is
>> it reliant on that failed? Other electrical equipment stay up? Curious
>> if a Mid-Continental AI (with battery back up) would have stayed up.
>> I'm sure everyone would be very interested in a forensic analysis of
>> what did, and what didn't happen. It is certainly a topical issue with
>> all the all-electrics being put in the air.
>>
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> Just got back from a weeks vacation and one of my hanger neighbors told
>> me
>> of a Lancair hangered across from RV9A who was possibly hit by static
>> discharge (lightning) while hard IFR. The Dynon failed including a
>> separate
>> buss electrical backup system. Fortunately, the backup came back online
>> in
>> ten or fifteen seconds and he was able to descend out of the layer two
>> or
>> three minutes later nose down and in a thirty degree bank. He said he
>> attributes being here today by just finishing a course with Flight
>> Safety
>> recently. He's also purpertedly to have said he's installing a new
>> vaccum
>> backup system.
>>
>>> Alex,
>>>
>>> Everyone can agree that all of the EFIS have had some teething issues,
>>> some more than others. But if we consider all the instruments and
>>> systems a single EFIS/EIS replaces, or never were even available
>> before,
>>> it would seem that the 'inop rate' is actually very low, especially
>> for
>>> a sophisticated, complex instrument right out of the gate. If we
>>> tallied all the problems that we would have with the old individual
>>> instruments, I'm guessing the total would be significantly greater
>> than
>>> what is seen with these new electronic systems. It gets noticed more
>>> when all the malfunctions that could possibly happen show up in one
>>> instruments...it may seem like a lot but doubt that it really is.
>>>
>>> Heck, the eInstruments for GA have only had 2-3 real years to sort
>>> things out. The aircraft industry has been perfecting the vacuum pump
>>> and instruments for decades and they still crap out with frustrating
>>> regularity, so I think we're making progress.
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>> Dual GRT EFIS (and satisfied with 'em)
>>>
>>> Larry, sorry you are having troubles with the Dynon.
>>>
>>> While we can't possibly know what the failure rate for this system (or
>>> any
>>> other new EFIS) is yet, we must be humble to how difficult it is to
>>> design a
>>> device of this complexity with minimal failure potentials.
>>>
>>> I'm sure this will bring on the torches, but we seem to be in a period
>>> right
>>> now where there are more problems with the new EFIS systems than with
>>> the
>>> ancient mechanical systems they are replacing. This will change, of
>>> course,
>>> but be aware that this is often the nature of new technology. There
>> are
>>> no
>>> free lunches.
>>>
>>> Alex Peterson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Tip Light Indicators |
Howdy List-
Occasionally one of my brain farts turns into something I think is pretty
cool and I'd feel bad if I didn't share with y'all- if you don't like the little
plexiglass blades (or other means) of telling if your tip lights are on,
here's something that is embarrassingly cheap and easy to do- see:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7883
Have fun!
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark -6A N51PW, 250 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: 2" ID firesleeve? |
High-Temperature Silicone-Coated Fiberglass Sleeving - Page 713 of the
Mcmaster-Carr catalog (online).
Dick
Mickey Coggins wrote:
>
>Hi,
>
>Anyone know where I can get some 2" ID firesleeve?
>
>This is a bit larger than all the usual suspects
>seem to stock. I've tried Sacramento, Wicks, and
>Spruce.
>
>Perhaps if I knew the "generic" name for firesleeve
>I could find some at McMaster.com.
>
>Thanks,
>Mickey
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: 2" ID firesleeve? |
That's exactly what I'm looking for! Thanks Dick.
> High-Temperature Silicone-Coated Fiberglass Sleeving - Page 713 of the
> Mcmaster-Carr catalog (online).
>
>>Perhaps if I knew the "generic" name for firesleeve
>>I could find some at McMaster.com.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop spinner back-plate |
John L. Danielson
307-266-2524
johnd(at)wlcwyo.com
WLC, Inc.
-----Original Message-----
From: John Danielson [mailto:johnd(at)wlcwyo.com]
Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop
spinner back-plate
Here is how I solved my problem. I glassed the intersection fairing to
both the fuselage and the cowl, while the cowl was attached to the
plane. Then using a dremel tool with a cut-off wheel, I sliced the
intersection fairing at an angle that matches the landing gear legs. I
then glassed small strips of fiberglass to the inside of the
intersection fairing that remained on the fueslage, protruding out so as
to be under the intersection fairing that is attached to cowling. This
stops the wind from getting under the intersection fairing that is
attached to the fuselage.
Send me an e-mail and I will send you a photo.
John L. Danielson
RV-6 Sold
Harmon Rocket
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop
spinner back-plate
----- Original Message -----
From: <Fiveonepw(at)aol.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-9A: Relationship between top cowl and prop
spinner
back-plate
>
> In a message dated 11/21/2005 5:13:09 PM Central Standard Time,
> kboatright1(at)comcast.net writes:
> If
> you do fill the gap, the already tough chore of getting the bottom
cowl
> on/off is going to become a genuine nightmare.
>>>>
>
> Don't understand- mine is a fairly consistent 4-5 mm gap, and lower
cowl
> deplanes quite easily- I even quit putting protective tape on the fuse
and
> cowl to
> protect from damage and have only minor difficulty clearing the inlet
> seals-
> helluva slot for the sissygearleg, but pretty much a yawner to get the
> bottom
> cowl off...........
>
> Mark Phillips -6A, N51PW (PossumWorks in TN)
>
> archive this? well, maybe...........................
A little back and forth, eh? ;-)
This may be another difference between the nosewheel and tailwheel
versions.
On my tailwheel -6 the landing gear fairings make it impossible to
remove
the lower cowl by dropping it vertically. To remove the lower cowl, I
pull
the fasteners, then the cowl will drop an inch or so. At that point, the
aft
edge is resting on the gear leg fairings and the front is captured by
the
spinner, with a soft rag between the spinner and cowl. I use the ledge
where
the aft cowl rests as a hinge point of sorts to lower the front of the
cowl
(you've gotta flex it to clear the spinner). Once the front of the cowl
is
free and clear of the spinner, I slide the entire cowl forward and off
of
the gear leg fairing/hinge points to free it. Doable with 2 hands,
preferable to have a helper.
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: fumoto T202N |
shucks, mine clearly has T202 & F 34 stamped on it and on the bag it came in it
is listed as NPT 1/2 -14 T202N and the hangar crowd all agree it's not NPT threading.
And darn if I can use it - it sure looks better than the more expensive one I ended
up using :-)
I'll bet if I tried it, it would work even if threads on it don't exactly match
the taper of the square plug I removed....
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
>
>
> In a message dated 11/9/2005 8:54:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
> luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:
>
> I purchased the T202N. I couldn't use it because in my IO 360 a1b6d
> installation because there's not enough clearance between the drain handle and
> an
> air intake pipe to thread the darn thing on. So I traded with another RVer
> for his spare aeroequip quick drain. He ended up not wanting it because it
> didn't appear to be a true pipe thread and it was also slightly over .5 inch
> diameter. He didn't even bother to try and thread it on.
>
> When you compare it to the standard plug, there was no taper to the 202Ns
> threads. It was constant diameter all the to the first thread. Did anyone
> else notice that?
>
>
> ================================
>
> Then you must have received a mis-marked one from Fumoto. The threads on
> mine (circa 1997) are clearly national pipe threads (tapered) and the valve
> body tightened perfectly in the Lycoming sump.
>
> GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
>
>
>
>
>
>
shucks, mine clearly has T202 F 34 stamped on it and on the bag it came in it
is listed as NPT 1/2 -14 T202N and the hangar crowd all agree it's not NPT threading.
And darn if I can use it- it sure looks better than the more expensive one I ended
up using :-)
I'll bet if I tried it, it would work even if threads on it don't exactly match
the taper of the square plug I removed....
lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
-- RV-List message posted by: Vanremog(at)aol.com
In a message dated 11/9/2005 8:54:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
luckymacy(at)comcast.net writes:
I purchased the T202N. I couldn't use it because in my IO 360 a1b6d
installation because there's not enough clearance between the drain handle and
an
air intake pipe to thread the darn thing on. So I traded with another RVer
for his spare aeroequip quick drain. He ended up not wanting it because it
didn't appear to be a true pipe thread and it was also slightly over .5 inch
diameter. He didn't even bother to try and thread it on.
When you compare it to the standard plug, there was no taper to the 202Ns
threads. It was constant diameter all the to the firs
t thread. Did anyone
else notice that?
================================
Then you must have received a mis-marked one from Fumoto. The threads on
mine (circa 1997) are clearly national pipe threads (tapered) and the valve
body tightened perfectly in the Lycoming sump.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 767hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
builtHELP www.homebuilthelp.com!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DWAIN HARRIS" <DJaerosports(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Paint scheme question |
Doug I'm a FORD man and painted my 6 Ford Lapis Blue. I do notice the fuel in the
tanks seem to expanded on those hot days. Keep the fuel level below the filler
neck if you plan on parking your plane outside for a while.
Dwain Harris
N164DH
Tehachapi, Ca
----- Original Message -----
From: Doug Medema<mailto:doug.medema(at)comcast.net>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Sunday, November 20, 2005 9:41 PM
Subject: RV-List: Paint scheme question
If you looked at my website after my previous post, you know
I'm seriously
contemplating painting my plane a dark blue (actually
Chevrolet Indigo Blue
like on my TrailBlazer.) I know a dark colored car can get
very hot inside
but am wondering if it makes much difference on an RV. We
have the clear
canopy and mine already has a black glareshield. The only
area in the cockpit
that would be affected is the area over the back of the
baggage compartment.
So, any of you that have dark paint on the top -- does your
cockpit get really
hot in the sun, or do you think it is about the same as a
lighter color?
Thanks,
Doug Medema
RV-6A N276DM down for 2nd condition inspection.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gerns25(at)netscape.net |
| Subject: | Dimpled skin and clecos |
I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. The problem
I am having is this:
While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the skin
and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in the skin
pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush rivets using
the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes
are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem?
Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in the ribs (thinner material),
the rear and forward spar don't have the problem. I dimpled this stuff
with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a difference. I know there is not
a whole lot I can to about it now but can someone give me some advice for the
future skins?
Darin Hawkes
RV7 Empennage
N619PB reserved
Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
http://mail.netscape.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpled skin and clecos |
Darin, occasionally I had that problem but it would only be about 1% of the
holes. Dimpling definitely makes the hole larger though. Are you using tank
dimple dies from Cleveland, they will make a larger hole?
Greg
RV8
>
> I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none.
The problem I am having is this:
>
> While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the
skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in
the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush
rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die
set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else
had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in
the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't have the
problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a
difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now but can
someone give me some advice for the future skins?
>
> Darin Hawkes
> RV7 Empennage
> N619PB reserved
> Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
> Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
> http://mail.netscape.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jamie Painter <jamie(at)jpainter.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpled skin and clecos |
gerns25(at)netscape.net wrote:
>While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the skin
and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in the skin
pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush rivets using
the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes
are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem?
Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in the ribs (thinner
material), the rear and forward spar don't have the problem. I dimpled this stuff
with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a difference. I know there is not
a whole lot I can to about it now but can someone give me some advice for the
future skins?
>
>
Wow Darin. Strange.
I have occasionally seen this but it's pretty rare. I would check the
following:
1) Make sure your #40 bit is spinning true in the drill. Sometimes if
you punch through a hole and you're not careful you can bend the
bit...especially with the #40's. A wobbling drill bit will create a
bigger and almost always undesirable hole.
2) I've made multiple orders of 3/32nd clecos and one order I received
had different sized 'grippers' on them. They were slightly larger in
that I couldn't get them into the pre-punched holes on the skins. It
was odd. Cleaveland was great about it and sent me some more which were
fine and would slide right in the holes with no effort. I would check
your clecos to make sure they are the proper size. Maybe they're just a
little under sized? I could hold an old cleco and the oversized cleco
next to each other and visually see the difference. Maybe you could
find a hole that a cleco is gripping into and pull the cleco, then try
that cleco in another hole that would previously not grip??
3) As mentioned earlier, check to ensure you're not using tank dies.
The tank dies I borrowed from another builder were labeled with a 'T'.
Best,
Jamie Painter
--
RV-7A Fuselage Plumbing
http://rv.jpainter.org
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Gordon or Marge Comfort" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com> |
| Subject: | Dimpled skin and clecos |
-
Subject: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos
#40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The
holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had
this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in
the ribs (thinner material), the
Darin Hawkes
Darin: I have noticed that not all clecos are created equal. If you
have more than one brand or lot, try different ones. Also check to be
sure that your thinner material is not being over dimpled.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | 2" ID firesleeve? |
Hi Mickey,
>Anyone know where I can get some 2" ID firesleeve?
You might also try Earl's Performance Plumbing. I believe they have sites
in England and the Ukraine.
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Dimpled skin and clecos |
| From: | "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com> |
I bought a high-rpm corded drill from Grizzly that seems to have a bit of runout
on the chuck. This causes the bits to wobble and enlarges holes if I leave
the bit running in the hole. I run the bit in and out of the holes as fast as
I can and haven't had a problem with oversized holes. Also, I'm not sure about
this, but the jobbers seem to be slightly larger at the tip than the rest of
the body, so I don't allow the tip to stay at the hole entrance.
Daniel
9A Wings, tanks almost done :)
I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. The problem
I am having is this:
While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the skin
and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in the skin
pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush rivets using
the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes
are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem?
Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in the ribs (thinner material),
the rear and forward spar don't have the problem. I dimpled this stuff
with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a difference. I know there is not
a whole lot I can to about it now but can someone give me some advice for the
future skins?
Darin Hawkes
RV7 Empennage
N619PB reserved
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Dimpled skin and Clecos |
Darin,
Check your drill for wobble and run out as previously mentioned by other
listers. How are you de burring your rivet holes? If you are using that red
handled de burring tool sold by Avery and others, I suspect you are being
to aggressive with the tool. This will enlarge the hole. I suggest you
switch to using an angle die grinder with 2" ScotchBrite discs to de burr
the holes. This removes the burs, without enlarging the hole.
Another possible problem is that the pin on your male dimple die was
machined to a "to large" diameter. This will also enlarge the hole.
Charlie Kuss
>
>I checked the archives for information on this subject but found
>none. The problem I am having is this:
>
>While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the
>skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring
>in the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the
>flush rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32"
>dimple die set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has
>anyone else had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only
>happens in the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't
>have the problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that
>makes a difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now
>but can someone give me some advice for the future skins?
>
>Darin Hawkes
>RV7 Empennage
>N619PB reserved
>Try the New Netscape Mail Today!
>Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List
>http://mail.netscape.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | GX60 internal battery - 2nd attempt |
Noone responded on the first attempt
Fellow listers,
I am getting an error message stating that my internal battery needs service in
my GX60. The unit continues to function - I just have to press the msg button
every few minutes.
This only started since I upgraded the datacard - that may be coincidental though.
Anyone else seen this? Is it home-repairable...with the correct battery? I have
done some miniature soldering so I could probably do it......
The archives show some of the portable units needing a similar repair - being done
by the owner. Sure would save some RV gas money!
November 06, 2005 - November 23, 2005
RV-Archive.digest.vol-rk