RV-List Archive Browser

RV-Archive.digest.vol-rl
November 23, 2005 - December 09, 2005

Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2005
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
In a message dated 11/22/05 9:59:40 PM Central Standard Time, gerns25(at)netscape.net writes: > While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the > skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in > the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. >>>> Hi Darin- The problem might be the clecos- I had two different brands and one would consistently not hold as well as the other- might want to check this. If you are drilling #40 and using the right dimple dies (sounds like it) it "should" be fine- check the dimples by dropping a -3 rivet in the hole and see if it is a good fit (flush at the head to skin surface). Also possible you are deburring too deeply and enlarging the holes- make darn sure you don't deburr a countersink on both sides of the hole so the edges meet in the middle and make the hole larger! Some builders use #41 bits for match drilling (self included), provided the dimple dies fit OK without cracking the edges of the hole when dimpling. This might help some, but I'd check the clecos first... Mark Phillips -6A slobuild- flying ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
I'm at the engine selection stage of my -8A QB project. Pretty much decided on a new IO-360. I've been very impressed by Vans, Superior and Aerosport regarding engine options and customer support, but still have an unanswered question: Are there any performance / reliability differences between horizontal and vertical induction engines? So far the only answers I've gotten have to do with aesthetics - removing the scoop - which begs the question: Is the aesthetic value of a horizontal induction engine worth the $1800 jump in price (Aerosport)? Seems to me there has to be other factors, but so far I haven't been smart enough to figure them out. I'm leaning toward Aerosport - dealing with them just feels right. Anyone have any goods or others comments on their Great White North experiences? Paul Valovich "Booger" Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: Jim <n144hr(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
I had that problem with my 6 and found out that the money I saved buying cheap clecoes cost me in the long run. Buy the good clecoes from Van's or Avery. Also, after building the 6 I found that the dimple dies from Avery were the best. My neighbor drills his holes with a 3/32 drill instead of #40 and doesn't have this problem. I don't recommend it if you are short on patience because getting the cleco in before the skin is dimpled is a PITA. From: "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos Darin, occasionally I had that problem but it would only be about 1% of the holes. Dimpling definitely makes the hole larger though. Are you using tank dimple dies from Cleveland, they will make a larger hole? Greg RV8 > > I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. The problem I am having is this: > > While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't have the problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now but can someone give me some advice for the future skins? > > Darin Hawkes > RV7 Empennage > N619PB reserved > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Dimpled skin and clecos
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
I've run into this before. With tools like a pneumatic squeezer or, in my case, the DRDT-2 dimpler it is possible to over dimple. When you over dimple a hole it will enlarge it just enough so the cleco won't hold. The dimple looks fine but the cleco tends to pop out. Back off your dimple sets a little and the problem should go away. Michael Sausen -10 #352 waiting on fuselage -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gerns25(at)netscape.net Subject: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. The problem I am having is this: While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't have the problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now but can someone give me some advice for the future skins? Darin Hawkes RV7 Empennage N619PB reserved Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 23, 2005
Paul: The Horizontal Induction can also be called "Cold Air Induction". All the Lycoming manuals say that there is a 1% increase in horsepower for every 10 degree F drop below standard temperature. The vertical induction goes right through the oil sump. There is in theory some heat transfer from the oil to the induction air / fuel mixture. For every 10 degrees F that you lower this temperature, there is a 1% increase in horsepower. With a carb, I prefer the vertical induction. With fuel injection, the horizontal or cold air induction SHOULD give you a more tuned intake with less resistance to the flow of air and a cooler air charge for each cylinder. In theory the horizontal induction will provide more horsepower. The design of the filter in front of the intake system also has some effect on the induction system. The "Snorkel" sold by Van does not have the manifold pressure gain that the FAB or RAM air intakes claim to have. In actual flight, does this report 0.5 to 1.0" MP gain really make much difference? My O-320 is an updraft (vertical) carb. The replacement IO-360 I am looking at is planned to have horizontal (cold air) induction. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,814 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> Subject: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 10:34:57 -0500 I'm at the engine selection stage of my -8A QB project. Pretty much decided on a new IO-360. I've been very impressed by Vans, Superior and Aerosport regarding engine options and customer support, but still have an unanswered question: Are there any performance / reliability differences between horizontal and vertical induction engines? So far the only answers I've gotten have to do with aesthetics - removing the scoop - which begs the question: Is the aesthetic value of a horizontal induction engine worth the $1800 jump in price (Aerosport)? Seems to me there has to be other factors, but so far I haven't been smart enough to figure them out. I'm leaning toward Aerosport - dealing with them just feels right. Anyone have any goods or others comments on their Great White North experiences? Paul Valovich "Booger" Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: mimartin(at)sweetwaterhsa.com
Subject: address change
Please change my address: old address: mimartin(at)sweetwaterhsa.com New address: mimartin(at)wyoming.com Thank you Mickey Martin ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 23, 2005
Hi Paul, AeroSport Power is easily among the most highly regarded companies. Bart is very customer conscious and he enjoys very high recommendations from his customers around the world. I have yet hear of or meet anyone that has regretted doing business with him. Jim in Kelowna, in the great white North - Prepping the fuse for paint --- Original Message ----- From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> Subject: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines > > I'm at the engine selection stage of my -8A QB project. Pretty much > decided on a new IO-360. I've been very impressed by Vans, Superior and > Aerosport regarding engine options and customer support, but still have > an unanswered question: > > > Are there any performance / reliability differences between horizontal > and vertical induction engines? > > > So far the only answers I've gotten have to do with aesthetics - > removing the scoop - which begs the question: Is the aesthetic value of > a horizontal induction engine worth the $1800 jump in price (Aerosport)? > Seems to me there has to be other factors, but so far I haven't been > smart enough to figure them out. > > > I'm leaning toward Aerosport - dealing with them just feels right. > Anyone have any goods or others comments on their Great White North > experiences? > > Paul Valovich > > "Booger" > > Ridgecrest, CA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Re: AeroElectric-List: GX60 internal battery
-----Forwarded Message----- From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: Re: AeroElectric-List: GX60 internal battery Just called Garmin-AT - got lucky..... There is a difference between dead battery and needs service....the needs service indicates that the unit is charging the battery and could vent into the system. If the battery was dead I would have gotten a different error message. According to the service technician...... Good news is that since my airplane has not flown - it is still covered by warranty...great - allows me to test prior to first flight. Ralph Capen RV6A N822AR N06 90% 90% -----Original Message----- From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> Subject: AeroElectric-List: GX60 internal battery --> AeroElectric-List message posted by: "Ralph E. Capen" Fellow listers, I am getting an error message stating that my internal battery needs service in my GX60. The unit continues to function - I just have to press the msg button every few minutes. This only started since I upgraded the datacard - that may be coincidental though. Anyone else seen this? Is it home-repairable...with the correct battery? I have done some miniature soldering so I could probably do it...... The archives show some of the portable units needing a similar repair - being done by the owner. Sure would save some RV gas money! Thanks, Ralph Capen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: looking for potential exhaust systems
Very happy with http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/ Check out the 4 into 1 Tell them RV-7 George (custom 4 into 1) sent you. They make custom exhaust and have off the shelf. They have very efficent heat muff technology and I think they not make a muffler (sound) heat muff (heat) combo. George --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: looking for potential exhaust systems
George, Is yours a 7A.....? I looked on their site and have had numerous exchanges with them. They would need to do a custom for me - I have a 6A and AFP injection. Doing the research for now. Thanks, Ralph -----Original Message----- From: gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com Subject: RV-List: Re: looking for potential exhaust systems Very happy with http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/ Check out the 4 into 1 Tell them RV-7 George (custom 4 into 1) sent you. They make custom exhaust and have off the shelf. They have very efficent heat muff technology and I think they not make a muffler (sound) heat muff (heat) combo. George --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters
Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for the Rotax 912ULS engine? Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim(at)sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:06:53 -0800 (PST) > >Very happy with > > http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/ > > Check out the 4 into 1 > > Tell them RV-7 George (custom 4 into 1) sent you. > > They make custom exhaust and have off the shelf. > > They have very efficent heat muff technology and I think > they not make a muffler (sound) heat muff (heat) combo. > > George > > >--------------------------------- > > Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT ________________________________________________________________________________
From: CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 23, 2005
Subject: Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters
In a message dated 11/23/05 2:47:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim(at)pellien.com writes: > Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for > the Rotax 912ULS engine? > Oil Filter: If my memory serves me....a Fram PH3614 is the one you need or you can even cross it over to other brands. A 4 cyl Chrysler K-car I think is the application . Do a search on Google.com to be sure. RV-4 RV-8 QB .... Fuselage Sal Capra Lakeland, FL My Home Page ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters
Date: Nov 23, 2005
I don't know the exact plug you're looking for, but I'm pretty sure Spruce sells 'em. http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/ngk.php The best deal I found on NGK spark plugs (if that's what you're after) was at Rock Auto. http://www.rockauto.com/ That was as of a few months ago. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (693 hours) http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com> Subject: RV-List: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters > > Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for the Rotax 912ULS engine? > > Jim > > Jim Pellien > Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes > www.MASPL.com > 703-313-4818 > jim(at)sportsplanes.com > > > ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- > From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> > Date: Wed, 23 Nov 2005 11:06:53 -0800 (PST) > > > > >Very happy with > > > > http://www.aircraftexhaust.net/ > > > > Check out the 4 into 1 > > > > Tell them RV-7 George (custom 4 into 1) sent you. > > > > They make custom exhaust and have off the shelf. > > > > They have very efficent heat muff technology and I think > > they not make a muffler (sound) heat muff (heat) combo. > > > > George > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > > > > > Sent via the WebMail system at Engage IT > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com>
Subject: Re: polished/painted airplane pics
(not processed: message from valid local sender) Those half paint/half polished RV's look pretty good, never seen one before. Probably a lot of maintenance though... - Matt -----Original Message----- From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:59:55 -0500 Subject: Re: RV-List: polished/painted airplane pics > > On 11/22 7:56, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > > > > > > I spent the weekend going though tons of RV websites looking for > polished planes.....found very few. Just wondering if any of you guys > can narrow the search for me. I just wanted to get some pictures to use > as inspiration for paint schemes. There was an RV 8 I saw at Vans > homecoming last year that was red on the front and had a polished > tailcone...very pretty. Also for those who have not seen it check the > link below to a picture of Jon Scholl's paint job.......its in the > completions section on Vans site. > http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/Scholl_lg.jpg Too cool, > but maybe bad Ju Ju :) > > I saved a bunch of images that I liked that were half paint half > polished aluminum, they can be found here. > > http://www.rv7-a.com/paintschemes > > -- > Walter Tondu > http://www.rv7-a.com > Flying! > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert Enos II" <rje2(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 23, 2005
I recently picked up my TMX IO360 from Mattituck who were great to deal with. With the Horiz. induction the air charge does not pass thru the hot oil in the sump therefore the air is colder resulting in greater performance. Give Mahlon a call at Mattituck he sure knows his stuff. Rob Enos Westport, MA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> Subject: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines > > I'm at the engine selection stage of my -8A QB project. Pretty much > decided on a new IO-360. I've been very impressed by Vans, Superior and > Aerosport regarding engine options and customer support, but still have > an unanswered question: > > > Are there any performance / reliability differences between horizontal > and vertical induction engines? > > > So far the only answers I've gotten have to do with aesthetics - > removing the scoop - which begs the question: Is the aesthetic value of > a horizontal induction engine worth the $1800 jump in price (Aerosport)? > Seems to me there has to be other factors, but so far I haven't been > smart enough to figure them out. > > > I'm leaning toward Aerosport - dealing with them just feels right. > Anyone have any goods or others comments on their Great White North > experiences? > > Paul Valovich > > "Booger" > > Ridgecrest, CA > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Subject: Re: polished/painted airplane pics (not processed: message
from valid local sender)
Date: Nov 23, 2005
Only half as much as you would expect :) I love the polished look but have never been willing to put the effort into the maintenance. I just thought that the mixed paint/polish scheme may be more manageable. There are some beautiful planes out there! You guys rock......thanks for links... Evan Johnson www.evansaviationproducts.com (530)247-0375 (530)351-1776 cell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: polished/painted airplane pics (not processed: message from valid local sender) > > Those half paint/half polished RV's look pretty good, never seen one before. Probably a lot of maintenance though... > > - Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Date: Tue, 22 Nov 2005 11:59:55 -0500 > Subject: Re: RV-List: polished/painted airplane pics > > > > > On 11/22 7:56, Evan and Megan Johnson wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I spent the weekend going though tons of RV websites looking for > > polished planes.....found very few. Just wondering if any of you guys > > can narrow the search for me. I just wanted to get some pictures to use > > as inspiration for paint schemes. There was an RV 8 I saw at Vans > > homecoming last year that was red on the front and had a polished > > tailcone...very pretty. Also for those who have not seen it check the > > link below to a picture of Jon Scholl's paint job.......its in the > > completions section on Vans site. > > http://www.vansaircraft.com/images/first_flight/Scholl_lg.jpg Too cool, > > but maybe bad Ju Ju :) > > > > I saved a bunch of images that I liked that were half paint half > > polished aluminum, they can be found here. > > > > http://www.rv7-a.com/paintschemes > > > > -- > > Walter Tondu > > http://www.rv7-a.com > > Flying! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mannan J. Thomason" <mannanj(at)alltel.net>
Subject: List Contributions
Date: Nov 23, 2005
List: Matt's doing a fabulous job. I've made my pitifully small contribution to the list. (I'm retarded----uhh---retired.) Please guys, if you think this is worthwhile, give a little. mannan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Dimpled skin and clecos
Date: Nov 23, 2005
Darin, the first thought is that maybe your deburring too aggressively. I cant remember any clecos pulling through dimples unless I've drilled out a bad rivet. If your certain the bit is #40 take a mic and check for mislabel. Steve dinieri N221rv N231rv -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gerns25(at)netscape.net Subject: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. The problem I am having is this: While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring in the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the flush rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't have the problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now but can someone give me some advice for the future skins? Darin Hawkes RV7 Empennage N619PB reserved Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 23, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Fuel cap engraving....Going cheap costs more
I saw a nice fuel cap engraving on Dan's website and mentioned it to another RV pilot who will remain nameless. This anomalous RV pilot suggested finding a local engraver to do it so I looked around and found one. This morning I took it in with a picture of the end result and got the cap back several hours later. Not good. The engraving is nothing like what Bill Esther can do and is slightly offset. When discussing the fiasco (I seem to have those) with "what's his name" we both noted that the good job looks like a router type cut as opposed to my cheap engraving pencil look. I just looked at the website again and apparently it is CNC engraving: http://www.rvproject.com/esther_engraving.html So in trying to save a few bucks I effectively cosmetically ruined a fuel cap. Of course it is not "you know who's" fault. In retrospect I did have subtle indications that the job would not be what I wanted but it did not make it to my "take the cap and run" brain synapses. I should have listened to Dan's advise. Bad Ron bad. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: List Contributions
Date: Nov 24, 2005
On 23 Nov 2005, at 22:47, Mannan J. Thomason wrote: > > > List: > > Matt's doing a fabulous job. I've made my pitifully small > contribution to > the list. (I'm retarded----uhh---retired.) Please guys, if you > think this > is worthwhile, give a little. The info I've gleaned from the list has saved me thousands of dollars, and many hours. My RV-8 will be a much better aircraft because of this list. I've also made a bunch of new friends, and it is interesting to track them down when I travel. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
Date: Nov 24, 2005
If the drill bit is a #40 check your dimple dies and make sure you are using the right size. Mike Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos > > Darin, the first thought is that maybe your deburring too aggressively. I > cant remember any clecos pulling through dimples unless I've drilled out a > bad rivet. If your certain the bit is #40 take a mic and check for > mislabel. > > Steve dinieri > N221rv > N231rv > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > gerns25(at)netscape.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos > > > I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. > The > problem I am having is this: > > While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the > skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring > in > the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the > flush > rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die > set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else > had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in > the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't have the > problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a > difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now but can > someone give me some advice for the future skins? > > Darin Hawkes > RV7 Empennage > N619PB reserved > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "wskimike" <wskimike(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 24, 2005
Carbs are different if you are not using fuel injection. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines > > Hi Paul, > > AeroSport Power is easily among the most highly regarded companies. Bart > is > very customer conscious and he enjoys very high recommendations from his > customers around the world. > > I have yet hear of or meet anyone that has regretted doing business with > him. > > Jim in Kelowna, in the great white North - Prepping the fuse for paint > > > --- Original Message ----- > From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines > > >> >> I'm at the engine selection stage of my -8A QB project. Pretty much >> decided on a new IO-360. I've been very impressed by Vans, Superior and >> Aerosport regarding engine options and customer support, but still have >> an unanswered question: >> >> >> Are there any performance / reliability differences between horizontal >> and vertical induction engines? >> >> >> So far the only answers I've gotten have to do with aesthetics - >> removing the scoop - which begs the question: Is the aesthetic value of >> a horizontal induction engine worth the $1800 jump in price (Aerosport)? >> Seems to me there has to be other factors, but so far I haven't been >> smart enough to figure them out. >> >> >> I'm leaning toward Aerosport - dealing with them just feels right. >> Anyone have any goods or others comments on their Great White North >> experiences? >> >> Paul Valovich >> >> "Booger" >> >> Ridgecrest, CA >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
I would say mislabel or wrong bit. I would even double check the cleco. I had that problem before on a batch of used clecos I bought... odd sized. Darrell wskimike wrote: If the drill bit is a #40 check your dimple dies and make sure you are using the right size. Mike Harris ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven DiNieri" Subject: RE: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos > > Darin, the first thought is that maybe your deburring too aggressively. I > cant remember any clecos pulling through dimples unless I've drilled out a > bad rivet. If your certain the bit is #40 take a mic and check for > mislabel. > > Steve dinieri > N221rv > N231rv > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of > gerns25(at)netscape.net > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Dimpled skin and clecos > > > I checked the archives for information on this subject but found none. > The > problem I am having is this: > > While building the Horiz. stabilizer I have found that after dimpling the > skin and the ribs, the 3/32" clecos don't hold for anything...the spring > in > the skin pulls them out of 90% of the holes. I match drilled all the > flush > rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die > set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else > had this problem? Another thing, it seems as though this only happens in > the ribs (thinner material), the rear and forward spar don't have the > problem. I dimpled this stuff with my pneumatic squeezer if that makes a > difference. I know there is not a whole lot I can to about it now but can > someone give me some advice for the future skins? > > Darin Hawkes > RV7 Empennage > N619PB reserved > Try the New Netscape Mail Today! > Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List > http://mail.netscape.com > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Tip Light Indicators
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote: > >Howdy List- > >Occasionally one of my brain farts turns into something I think is pretty >cool and I'd feel bad if I didn't share with y'all- if you don't like the little >plexiglass blades (or other means) of telling if your tip lights are on, >here's something that is embarrassingly cheap and easy to do- see: > >http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7883 > >Have fun! > >>From The PossumWorks in TN >Mark -6A N51PW, 250 hours > This list is fun, but an occasional (too rare) nugget like this is what homebuilding & this list are really about. You've shamed me into whipping out my credit card for a donation. Thanks, Mark Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
Date: Nov 24, 2005
.Problem....." I match drilled all the flush rivets using the #40 bit and dimpled everything using the 3/32" dimple die set. The holes are just a hair too large for the clecos. Has anyone else had this problem?" My experience building old, drill your own RV kits has made these points obvious.... I bought my cleco's in about 1998 so things may have changed but most builders had the same problems of insecure holding clecos and it is normally the clecos. Cheap clecos from ATS and US Tool which were .02 cheaper than Avery and Cleaveland had tips that were not shaped as consistently well. Brand name Clekoloc - USA were then sold by ATS/US Tool and Wedgeloc was sold by Avery/Cleaveland. You can tell the difference as the cheaper units have to be "tipped" into the hole since the tips do not, when extended, close together to shape a "point" but rather just extend leaving the builder to "tip" or force the prongs together to enter the hole. There may be other brands but these are the only ones I know but I do keep them segregated as the difference in performance is very noticeable. Now for "popping" out of dimpled holes. The higher $$ clecos did better but sometimes they did let go especially when doing high vibration jobs. The cheaper clecos had a lower percentage of them that actually held because the tips were not CONSISTENTLY well formed. Sometimes I could get them to grip better by retracting the pin and turning them in the hole 90 degrees other times I place a scrap piece of aluminum just drilled, not dimpled, behind the assembly to act as a washer to provide better gripping. I have tried drilling the hole to # 41 (even #42) instead of #40 and found problems with this. IF the dimple die enters this reduce hole with no interference then okay but IF the dimple die is press fit or friction fit then there is a problem. Examination with a strong magnifying glass will show a slight cracking around your hole meaning stress risers have been induced by forcing the pin of the dimple die into a tight undersize hole meaning your deburring process was just ruined. The standard #40 hole doesn't do this. Every builder should have a small cheap magnifying glass handy to occasionally check work for stress risers which should be our goal to eliminate. The rivet in a #40 hole which has been dimpled will have extra play in the hole initially but after one blow with the rivet gun or, if using a squeezer, the very first part of the squeeze, will cause the entire rivet from head to shop end to expand filling the hole entirely. Now continued driving of the rivet will produce the nice shaped shop head we all strive for. So choosing the hole as #41 or #40 is more dependant on the dimple die you have than the rivet but the whole process is designed around #40 holes. You can also have all the holes perfect and the when squeezing the dimple die into the hole cause a crack or an oval hole if the squeezer side frame runs against a rib or bulkhead. The leverage here is very great and the thinner sheet will actually give rather than move the stationary rib causing small cracks around one side of the hole. So be careful with the squeezer when dimpling in tight fitting areas. The magnifying glass will show the stress risers but the naked eye will miss them. I know of two low time RV4's with cracks around screw holes at the fiberglass wingtip attach points. Blue Skies and happy riveting Dick DeCramer RV6 N500DD 100 Hours Minnesota ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2005
Subject: Printer labels with white ink
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can make some labels? Jim Nelson RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
Date: Nov 24, 2005
I was just reading these series of emails on this subject. So if someone has already mentioned my suggestion, please pardon my repetition. I saw on the Orndorff videos where he mentions using 2 short blasts of the air drill when going in out of the holes for final drilling skins to ribs and spars. Anything longer than a short "in and out" drilling session could make the holes larger than desired. Have a good turkey day, ya'll! Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dick DeCramer" <diesel(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: Printer labels with white ink
Date: Nov 24, 2005
Jim... I labeled my panel with a cheap battery operated "Brother P-Touch" label maker and they had a cartridge with clear mylar tape and black and white lettering which I had to order through "Viking Office Supply" at www.viking.com . I think the tapes cost more than the machine. Due to my font size requirements it took 2 cartridges to get all my labels made for the entire airplane. The only negative is you must have very clean hands and tools as any dirty prints on the sticky side of the clear label will show through the label after it is in place. I used an Exacto knife and stuck the label just in the tip of the blade and transferred it to the panel. It looks very professional considering the low cost. Dick DeCramer RV6 N500DD 100 Hrs. Faribault, MN > > > I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note > functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can > make some labels? > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Printer labels with white ink
Date: Nov 24, 2005
It continues to amaze me that some of our brethren will not blink twice when spending 60-70k or more to buy and finish an RV, Lancair, or Glasair and then wimp out when it comes to finishing the panel. What every pilot looks at most of the time he's in his pride and joy. The cost to get your panel professionally engraved is less then most of you think. FMI: www.engravers.net Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dick DeCramer Subject: RE: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink Jim... I labeled my panel with a cheap battery operated "Brother P-Touch" label maker and they had a cartridge with clear mylar tape and black and white lettering which I had to order through "Viking Office Supply" at www.viking.com . I think the tapes cost more than the machine. Due to my font size requirements it took 2 cartridges to get all my labels made for the entire airplane. The only negative is you must have very clean hands and tools as any dirty prints on the sticky side of the clear label will show through the label after it is in place. I used an Exacto knife and stuck the label just in the tip of the blade and transferred it to the panel. It looks very professional considering the low cost. Dick DeCramer RV6 N500DD 100 Hrs. Faribault, MN > > > I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note > functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can > make some labels? > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Contributions
Date: Nov 24, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 I have a lot of subscriptions. My Wall Street Journal costs about $175 a year; the Seattle Times another $135 or so. Then there are the business and professional magazines, and the science and technology and political periodicals, and the flying related magazines such as AOPA Pilot, EAA's Sport Aviation, Plane & Pilot, Flying, Private Pilot, GA News, Kit Planes, Light Plane Maintenance, and a few others that I can't think of at the moment. The point is that I spend well over a thousand dollars a year on newspaper and magazine subscriptions, and none of them come close to giving me the immediately useful information and entertainment that I get from just the few of Matt's lists that I subscribe to. AOPA Pilot doesn't tell me as much about flying experimental airplanes as just a few of test pilot Kevin Horton's posts to the RV list do. Kit Planes doesn't come close to telling me as much about building an RV as Sam Buchanan's or Dan Checkoway's web sites do, which of course I would never have known about had it not been for Matt's RV list. But I think the most impressive service that Matt brings to us is Bob Nuckolls on the Aeroelectric list. I am constantly amazed at the solid knowledge and patient good will that Bob brings to us about wiring little airplanes, and he does it for free. I have learned much more from Bob than the aeroelectric list name would suggest. I may not have had the fortitude to keep plugging along on the great project had it not been for the help and inspiration I get from reading the posts from you guys who have gone before or the many who have started after and already passed me by. So let Matt know that he makes your life better. Send him some money, and sleep soundly with a clear conscience, knowing that you have done your part to support truth, justice, and the airplane builder's way. Terry RV-8A #80829 Finishing? I promise it will fly someday. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Horizontal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 24, 2005
Note- Subject line changed to correct spelling of "Horizantal" to horizontal for the sake of future seekers of archive info. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "George Inman" <ghinman(at)mts.net>
Subject: Engine bolts
Date: Nov 24, 2005
Where do you buy engine bolts? These are like AN bolts but with course threads. I need 1/4" bolts to attach the crank sensor of my lightspeed ign. to front of the lycoming O360 George Inman ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2005
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Engine bolts
George, You can get these from Aircraft Spruce. The coarse thread bolts are listed in the paper catalog with the engine parts (carb bolts I think). They aren't shown with the rest of the standard fine thread AN hardware in the catalog. Charlie Kuss > > Where do you buy engine bolts? > These are like AN bolts but with > course threads. > I need 1/4" bolts to attach the crank > sensor of my lightspeed ign. to front > of the lycoming O360 > >George Inman > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 24, 2005
From: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Printer labels with white ink
You can do it with Ptouch (White of Clear). I've played with it but havent done it yet. Good Luck, Bob Christensen RV-8 Bldr - SE Iowa On 11/24/05, James H Nelson wrote: > > > I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note > functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can > make some labels? > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Hall" <dhall(at)donka.net>
Subject: Re: Dimpled skin and clecos
Date: Nov 24, 2005
Most of the responses seem to focus on drilling or deburring as the culprit, but for me it is only after dimpling that I've run into 'loose cleco' syndrome, luckily only on a small percentage of holes so I just move the cleco to the hole above or below. Maybe overly aggressive deburring causes the problem, but doesn't manifest into a fit issue until it's mashed in the dimple die? Sounds like an easy experiment. Now the next question. How are the shop heads on those rivets in the loose holes? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2005
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Considering what's the best way to get around after landing. From my research between folding bikes, gas go-peds and elect scooters the winner seems to be the folding Bike. The question is what brand, model and where to buy. I want something that is light (20lbs or less) and compact (fit in a RV7 slider). Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back compartment? Here are some examples: (Price from $300-$1,000) http://www.dahon.com/prestolite.htm http://www.dahon.com/folding-bicycles-us-alpha.htm Go-ped / gas scooters don't seem to be a good choices from what I heard. They are very loud and attract a lot of unwanted attention and many places outlaw them. Also the small wheels get caught in cracks, not to mention dealing with a gas/oil tank in the cockpit. Semi-dangerous, but looking for input. Electric scooters are too heavy (+40lbs) and have limited range. That leaves Bikes. The big down side of the folding bikes is the cost. The quality light weight ones are expensive. Unless the technology catches up this does not seem practical. Any comments welcomed. Experiences good bad? Thanks George --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Utsey" <djdist(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 25, 2005
I'm thinking about the same engine with maybe the Fadec option and trying to decide if its worth the extra cost! Randy Utsey D.J. Distributing Co. 1429 Bryant St. Charlotte, NC 28208 800-585-4126 djdist(at)bellsouth.net www.djdist.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Enos II" <rje2(at)charter.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines > > I recently picked up my TMX IO360 from Mattituck who were great to deal > with. With the Horiz. induction the air charge does not pass thru the hot > oil in the sump > therefore the air is colder resulting in greater performance. Give Mahlon > a > call at Mattituck he sure knows his stuff. > > Rob Enos > Westport, MA > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> > To: > Subject: RV-List: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines > > >> >> I'm at the engine selection stage of my -8A QB project. Pretty much >> decided on a new IO-360. I've been very impressed by Vans, Superior and >> Aerosport regarding engine options and customer support, but still have >> an unanswered question: >> >> >> Are there any performance / reliability differences between horizontal >> and vertical induction engines? >> >> >> So far the only answers I've gotten have to do with aesthetics - >> removing the scoop - which begs the question: Is the aesthetic value of >> a horizontal induction engine worth the $1800 jump in price (Aerosport)? >> Seems to me there has to be other factors, but so far I haven't been >> smart enough to figure them out. >> >> >> I'm leaning toward Aerosport - dealing with them just feels right. >> Anyone have any goods or others comments on their Great White North >> experiences? >> >> Paul Valovich >> >> "Booger" >> >> Ridgecrest, CA >> >> >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Printer labels with white ink
Date: Nov 25, 2005
Jim, Go to your local Office Depot or similar store and look at the Brother Label makers. They are available in several models and all have the ability to change the size of the tape, fonts, color of the tape (including clear) and color of the ink. It's one of the things I wish I had purchased early in the project. It's great for labeling your parts drawers, wires, and yes one's panel if you wish. True, the clear tape is slightly visible around the edges of the print but I found on my panel, also gray, it's not that big a deal. Just my two cents worth. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO Final inspection next Wednesday! ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Subject: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink > > I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note > functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can > make some labels? > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Date: Nov 25, 2005
>Considering what's the best way to get around after landing. From my research between >folding bikes, gas go-peds and elect scooters the winner seems to be the folding Bike. The >question is what brand, model and where to buy. I want something that is light (20lbs or less) >and compact (fit in a RV7 slider). > Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back compartment? I have a pair of these: http://www.dahon.com/marinerd7.htm which I purchased from: http://brandscycle.com/site/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2735&Catalog=39&sort=Price I fly with these in a larger airplane and have doubts that they will go into the baggage compartment of your plane. They are a great choice for folding bikes though and we fly with them often. I did a lot of looking and am really happy with the quality of this bike. At the time Brands Cycle had the best price. I gave you a link to the carrying case and would highly recommend that you get one for each bike. It will protect both the bike and interior. I have to stack one bike on top of the other in the back of my plane, they are too tall to fit side by side. The smaller bikes that you were looking at might fit the baggage compartment of a seven. The smaller the wheel size though the poorer the bike will perform on the road. I like to fly into small airports without services and find that I end up using mine on rural two lane roads that have limited shoulders. Having larger wheels can make a difference, and even the 16" wheels on the Mariner are marginal. I'm hoping I can get at least one in the baggage compartment of my six. Good luck with your choice. I sure enjoy these. Recently someone posted that they carried folders in the back of their RV. I hope they see your post and give us the details. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Date: Nov 25, 2005
> > Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back > compartment? > George, I'm a big fan of the British Brompton, which I have been using for years after trying a few other folders. It is about as compact as they come and I am suspect it is the quickest and easiest of all folders to fold. It looks to me like two would fit easily in the baggage compartment of a 6 but I have not had the opportunity to try it. There could be a problem with "breakover angle" getting it in. The Brompton is very well built and rides well, but probably not nearly as well as the, more difficult to fold, Bike Fridays. The Dahons used to be of rather low quality and heavy, but it appears they have greatly improved. I have not used any of them. http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=bikerange.bikerange http://www.foldabikes.com/ http://www.landofenchantmentflyin.com/ One of the neat things about the Brompton is that it is so small that, with the optional nylon cover, you can carry it into a restaurant as a large valise and no one notices it or objects. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Pardue" <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Date: Nov 25, 2005
>>> Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back >>> compartment? Oops, in my previous post I didn't notice how Doug Reeves' links work. This should be better. http://www.vansairforce.net/photography/loe3/loe3pictures.htm There is a picture of me on my Brompton and a picture of Doug's Brompton in his 6's baggage compartment. Larry Pardue ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ralph Howey" <rdhowey(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Date: Nov 25, 2005
I spotted these in London last week and hope to put one in the back of my 8...http:www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk , I'll get the cheapest and lightest, saw lots of them and they seem to work quite well. Ralph in Tsawwassen RV8 QB just starting ----- Original Message ----- From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> Subject: RV-List: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter > > Considering what's the best way to get around after landing. From my > research between folding bikes, gas go-peds and elect scooters the winner > seems to be the folding Bike. The question is what brand, model and where > to buy. I want something that is light (20lbs or less) and compact (fit in > a RV7 slider). > > Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back > compartment? > > Here are some examples: (Price from $300-$1,000) > http://www.dahon.com/prestolite.htm > http://www.dahon.com/folding-bicycles-us-alpha.htm > > > Go-ped / gas scooters don't seem to be a good choices from what I heard. > They are very loud and attract a lot of unwanted attention and many places > outlaw them. Also the small wheels get caught in cracks, not to mention > dealing with a gas/oil tank in the cockpit. Semi-dangerous, but looking > for input. > > Electric scooters are too heavy (+40lbs) and have limited range. That > leaves Bikes. The big down side of the folding bikes is the cost. The > quality light weight ones are expensive. Unless the technology catches up > this does not seem practical. > > Any comments welcomed. Experiences good bad? > > Thanks George > > > --------------------------------- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Date: Nov 25, 2005
George, I flew a borrowed folding Dahon to a jobsite a few times this year in our tip-up 6a. Unwilling to dismantle it, I was unable to get it over the seatback brace and wound up strapping it into to copilot seat with the stick and cushions removed. My 6 project has the slider with tip-up mod which allows much better access to the baggage compartment. You can get a bike in easily. I haven't had two bikes to try it with, but it looks tight. I'd like to try one of those full sized Montague folders, but I really doubt two of those would go. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back compartment? Any comments welcomed. Experiences good bad? Thanks George --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Trevor Mills" <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au>
Subject: Venturi and Drag ?
Date: Nov 26, 2005
After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I would like to use what I have in the way of instruments. Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag penalty is just too great ? Thanks Trevor Mills 80605 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 25, 2005
From: bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes, Go-ped Elect Scooter
Quoting Larry Pardue : > > > > > > > Any one flying a folding bike in their RV? Can you get two into the back > > compartment? > > > > George, > > I'm a big fan of the British Brompton, which I have been using for years > after trying a few other folders. It is about as compact as they come and I > am suspect it is the quickest and easiest of all folders to fold. It looks > to me like two would fit easily in the baggage compartment of a 6 but I have > not had the opportunity to try it. There could be a problem with "breakover > angle" getting it in. > > The Brompton is very well built and rides well, but probably not nearly as > well as the, more difficult to fold, Bike Fridays. The Dahons used to be of > rather low quality and heavy, but it appears they have greatly improved. I > have not used any of them. > > http://www.bromptonbicycle.co.uk/index.cfm?fuseaction=bikerange.bikerange > http://www.foldabikes.com/ > http://www.landofenchantmentflyin.com/ > > One of the neat things about the Brompton is that it is so small that, with > the optional nylon cover, you can carry it into a restaurant as a large > valise and no one notices it or objects. > > Larry Pardue > Carlsbad, NM > > RV-6 N441LP Flying > http://n5lp.net > > But is the price for that? Can be as good as the one at Waltmart? thanks bert > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 26, 2005
> Hi Paul, > > AeroSport Power is easily among the most highly regarded companies. Bart > is > very customer conscious and he enjoys very high recommendations from his > customers around the world And, if memory serves, one of those happy customers is Jon Johanson, who has flown one of Bart's engines around the world. Three times... Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2005
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
Trevor: It is not a terrible idea and I went thru the research I can share with you. I did decide to go a different direction but it is an interesting idea. The drag for a 4" unit is only going to be about 1.5 mph at 200 MPH and that is a good guess. It could be less. I thought the same thing and looked into it. There was actually some research technical notes done by NASA in 1948. I have a PDF copy if you want. They looked at 6 Venturi tubes 3 small, 3 large. To answer you question a quick look makes it look like the small one is worth 0.5 mph drag at 200 mph. The Large one was about 1.5 mph drag at 200 mph. The small measures about Length x Dia of mouth = 6.375" x 1.75" The large measures about Length x Dia of mouth = 10.5" x 3.1 The small is what I think today is a 2" unit, and the large a 4" unit. The paper shows they produce more than the base rated value depending on speed and altitude. I am guessing at 190 mph the out put will be much higher, since these things where made and tested for only about 100-135 mph. Based on there drag info at 100 I could extrapolate to 200 mph acuratly and that is where I got the drag numbers above. Besides looks and drag the large one will need a regulator and filter and the smaller 2" may or may not be enough to drive a Attitude indicator. I like the 2" because of less drag and you may not need a regulator if used with a DG or AI. They where made originally for just one T&B. However at RV speeds it should be above 2"-hg suction. However it may drive one DG well. The AI needs more flow than the DG. I wanted a back-up non-elect gyro. I was interested in the small Venturi driving either a AI or a DG. The cost of a Elect mechanical AI back-ups are too high, but I decided to go another direction. The cost of solid state Gyros have come down and feel they are sufficient; since I already have a Dynon EFIS and a Navaid Autopilot. A unit like the TruTrak AI is a good back-up to those two gyros, and it goes for about $1000 usd. The drag and looks plus the new solid state units made this a no go for me. Also after the Venturi you may need to buy, regulator, filter. Than you need to buy the Vac instrument, which can be expensive and prone to failure. By the time you are done you may be better to just by solid state gyro, which has zero drag. Also if you are going to do real IFR using the Venturi for your prime attitude flight instruments you have to think of icing. OF course you should never get into icing, intentionally at least. If you did get into ice, it could be bad news. If you want to keep looking into adding a small or large Venturi let me know exact size (dimensions) of the Venturi you want to use, may be I can calculate the exact suction it will produce and predict the drag. There are all kinds of Venturi designs so it may be hard to know exactly but the manufacture may provide info, or you could flight test it. Great idea even though I abadonded it; it will work, and DRAG is not a real big deal. A VAC pump is a terrible thing. Expensive and they break. Plus the carbon dust gets into the gyros and kills them. A Venturi is a pure thing that works like a charm, but it just may be a little out of place on a slick homebuilt like a RV (anachronistic I thinkn is the word). George From: "Trevor Mills" <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au> Subject: RV-List: Venturi and Drag ? After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I would like to use what I have in the way of instruments. Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag penalty is just too great ? Thanks Trevor Mills 80605 --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
Date: Nov 26, 2005
On 25 Nov 2005, at 10:00, Trevor Mills wrote: > > > After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner > engine. I would like to use what I have in the way of instruments. > Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I > have only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because > the drag penalty is just too great ? Let's look at an RV that will cruise at 190 mph TAS at 8,000 ft at 75% power with a 160 hp engine (Van's specs for the RV-6). 75% power is 120 hp. If we assume a prop efficiency of 85%, that gives us 120 * 0.85 = 102 hp available to overcome drag. 190 mph * 5280/3600 = 279 ft/sec. Power required = drag times speed, so drag = power / speed. The total drag = (102 hp * 550 ft-lb/s per hp)/279 ft/sec = 201 lb. I can't find a drag coefficient for a venturi, so the best I can do is treat it as a flat plate. Hoerner, in Fluid-Dynamic Drag, gives us a drag coefficient of 1.17 for a circular disk (page 3-17) with a Reynolds number between 10 4 and 10 6. The frontal area of a 4" venturi would be 12.5 in 2 or 0.0868 ft 2. The air density at 8,000 ft on a standard day is 0.00186 slug/ft 3 (http://aero.stanford.edu/StdAtm.html) The drag from the venturi = 0.5 * density * V 2 * CD * Area. The predicted venturi drag = 0.5 * 0.00186 * 279 2 * 1.17 * 0.0868 = 7.4 lb drag. 7.4 lb of venturi drag / 201 airframe drag = 3.7% drag increase. The speed is expected to vary with the cube root of the drag. So a 3.7% drag increase should lead to about a 1.2% speed decrease, or a loss of about 2-3 mph. Keep in mind that I have no idea what the real drag coefficient of a venturi is. It may very well be higher than I assumed, but looking at the CDs Hoerner gives for some fairly ugly shapes, I wouldn't expect the venturi's CD to be greater than 2.5, which would give about a 5 mph speed loss. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mannan J. Thomason" <mannanj(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Horizantal vs Vertical Induction Engines
Date: Nov 26, 2005
Another consideration for any engine in my oppinion would be Barrett Precision Engines in Tulsa Ok. They build a lot of engines for the big air show peformers. I believe they also build the IO-390X, a 210 hp engine that Dick Martin has in his "fastest RV-8 in the world." Mannan RV-8 slo-build ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
Date: Nov 26, 2005
This is really bizarre. My message, as sent, had a bunch of "caret" characters (the one on top of the 6 key on many keyboards) to indicate a number raised to a power. But, the message from the list had the "caret" characters replaced by new lines. After reading George's post, where he mentioned data from a NACA report, I remembered that a 4 inch venturi isn't 4 inches in diameter, if I recall correctly. I think the 4 inch refers to the amount of suction produced at some specific speed. So, the diameter will be smaller than I assumed, which means less drag. George has actual test data, so his numbers are a lot better than mine. Kevin On 26 Nov 2005, at 07:02, Kevin Horton wrote: > > Let's look at an RV that will cruise at 190 mph TAS at 8,000 ft at > 75% power with a 160 hp engine (Van's specs for the RV-6). 75% power > is 120 hp. If we assume a prop efficiency of 85%, that gives us 120 > * 0.85 = 102 hp available to overcome drag. 190 mph * 5280/3600 > 279 ft/sec. Power required = drag times speed, so drag = power / > speed. > > The total drag = (102 hp * 550 ft-lb/s per hp)/279 ft/sec = 201 lb. > > I can't find a drag coefficient for a venturi, so the best I can do > is treat it as a flat plate. Hoerner, in Fluid-Dynamic Drag, gives > us a drag coefficient of 1.17 for a circular disk (page 3-17) with a > Reynolds number between 10 > 4 and 10 > 6. > > The frontal area of a 4" venturi would be 12.5 in > 2 or 0.0868 ft > 2. > The air density at 8,000 ft on a standard day is 0.00186 slug/ft > 3 > (http://aero.stanford.edu/StdAtm.html) > > The drag from the venturi = 0.5 * density * V > 2 * CD * Area. > > The predicted venturi drag = 0.5 * 0.00186 * 279 > 2 * 1.17 * 0.0868 > 7.4 lb drag. > > 7.4 lb of venturi drag / 201 airframe drag = 3.7% drag increase. The > speed is expected to vary with the cube root of the drag. So a 3.7% > drag increase should lead to about a 1.2% speed decrease, or a loss > of about 2-3 mph. > > Keep in mind that I have no idea what the real drag coefficient of a > venturi is. It may very well be higher than I assumed, but looking > at the CDs Hoerner gives for some fairly ugly shapes, I wouldn't > expect the venturi's CD to be greater than 2.5, which would give > about a 5 mph speed loss. > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2005
From: Dave Bristol <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
Trevor, This is not a very good idea at all. I spent 30 years flying my Stinson with venturi's and regardless of the looks and drag, the performance won't be acceptable. Venturi's were used with the old AN type gyros which were pretty efficient because they were designed to operate from the venturi. The newer type of instruments require the same 4" of vacuum but a lot more air flow. When I changed out the old gyros for new, I had to use 2 9" venturi's (without a regulator) just to get the required 4" of vacuum. Back in the 40's a 9" venturi would run everything, including the T&B. So you would have to use at least a 9" venturi which is REALLY big and ugly (IIRC about 4" in diameter by 12 to 14 " in length). Now keeping all this in mind, remember that you will NOT have any gyros on takeoff or initial climb and the venturi is subject to icing. Bottom line, don't go there. If you can't use a vacuum pump, sell the gyro and get something electric. It's not worth trying to resurrect 70 year old technology when there are so many modern options. Dave -6 So Cal EAA Technical Counselor Trevor Mills wrote: > >After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I would like to use what I have in the way of instruments. >Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag penalty is just too great ? > >Thanks > >Trevor Mills 80605 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
Kevin Horton wrote: > >This is really bizarre. My message, as sent, had a bunch of "caret" >characters (the one on top of the 6 key on many keyboards) to >indicate a number raised to a power. But, the message from the list >had the "caret" characters replaced by new lines. > >After reading George's post, where he mentioned data from a NACA >report, I remembered that a 4 inch venturi isn't 4 inches in >diameter, if I recall correctly. I think the 4 inch refers to the >amount of suction produced at some specific speed. So, the diameter >will be smaller than I assumed, which means less drag. George has >actual test data, so his numbers are a lot better than mine. > >Kevin > Kevin, I remember reading somewhere that venturis started on the belly & moved to the side of the fuse when mfgrs realized they could save a few feet of tubing & some labor by mounting them even with the instrument panel. Would mounting the venturi on the belly with its inlet ~even with the firewall, so it's fed by the cooling air exit, have any effect on total drag? I assume that the exit air isn't accelerated back to the full 180-200mph relative to the airframe, so would drag be somewhat lower? A potential side benefit is the warmer air from the cowl without as much moisture if flying in freezing conditions. What do you think? Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Backup AI was Venturi and Drag ?
Date: Nov 26, 2005
Trevor, It sounds as if you're trying to find a way to use your vacuum instruments even though your engine of choice doesn't have a spot for a vacuum pump. Probably your best bet is to E-bay your instruments and get some electric powered ones. As others have pointed out, vacuum instruments are the wave of the past in terms of reliability and utility. The real question, for many of us, becomes how to reliably backup an all electric panel. The electric turn and bank/coordinator was a response to the reliability concerns of air powered gauges. You don't want everything going belly up at the same time. When all gauges are on electric power, it seems prudent to have two (or more) sources of power for them with sufficient capacity to operate them for the remaining duration of fuel. Trevor, you'll be needing something like this anyway as your engine of choice is electrically dependant. Check out the AeroElectric Connection for ideas. You can also subscribe to the AeroElectric list for good discussions. On another note, for those with vac pads on their engines, I've been seeing ads for piston powered vac pumps from Sigma Tek. These will supposedly be more reliable than the old style wet or dry pumps. Pax, Ed Holyoke > >After buying a vacuum A H, I have just ordered a Eggenfellner engine. I would like to use what I have in the way of instruments. >Can anyone tell me about the amount of drag from a 4" Venturi, I have only ever seen one RV with one, ( Australia) is this because the drag penalty is just too great ? > >Thanks > >Trevor Mills 80605 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2005
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
On Sat, 26 Nov 2005, Dave Bristol wrote: > The newer type of instruments require the same 4" of vacuum but a lot more > air flow. I think Dave makes a valid point here. I've been flying a Navion with a single venturi and it's not really adequate to drive the AI and T&B. The owner is planning to add a second venturi. But the Navion only cruises at 120 kias. The extra speed of an RV would presumably give better performance from the venturi. Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: sturdy(at)att.net
Subject: P-Mag
Date: Nov 26, 2005
Listers, I have an RV-8 with mag left side and ElectroAir electronic ignition right side. My mag went out on left side. I am considering putting in a P-Mag left side to give me dual electronic ignitions but still keep the reliablility fall back of a self generated mag if electrical/battery system were to fail. Anybody have practical experience with the P-Mag, good or bad? Replies here or directly by email. Thanks. Stu McCurdy Listers, I have an RV-8 with mag left side and ElectroAir electronic ignition right side. My mag went out on left side. I am considering putting in a P-Mag left side to give me dual electronic ignitions but stillkeep the reliablility fall back of a self generated mag if electrical/battery system were to fail. Anybody have practical experience with the P-Mag, good or bad? Replies here or directly by email. Thanks. Stu McCurdy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Venturi and Drag ?
>But the Navion only cruises at 120 kias. The extra speed of an RV would >presumably give better performance from the venturi. And another point made is why bother with such devices on an RV. Consider a Dynon like system. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 26, 2005
Subject: Re: P-Mag
You didn't say, so I'll guess. A Lycoming 360 with a fixed pitch wood propeller? Jim Ayers In a message dated 11/26/2005 2:39:02 PM Pacific Standard Time, sturdy(at)att.net writes: Listers, I have an RV-8 with mag left side and ElectroAir electronic ignition right side. My mag went out on left side. I am considering putting in a P-Mag left side to give me dual electronic ignitions but stillkeep the reliablility fall back of a self generated mag if electrical/battery system were to fail. Anybody have practical experience with the P-Mag, good or bad? Replies here or directly by email. Thanks. Stu McCurdy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Printer labels with white ink
Date: Nov 26, 2005
How about using clear with black ink? You can buy it in standard 8.5 x 11 sheets at any office supply store and print in your own printer. I copied this from someone else and it works great. Once it gets a little old, just pull it off and use a new one. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Subject: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink > > I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note > functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can > make some labels? > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 26, 2005
Subject: Re: Printer labels with white ink
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Hi Jeff, The problem is the grey I used on my panel is fairly dark so black letters would not show up very well. I could use bold in the script but still in the world of "grey scale", those colors are toooo close together. White would be the choice, even a very light blue. If night flying, white would show up the best under dim lighting. When the dodo hits the fan when its dark outside, you need to do it right with no confusion. I know, I designed it and built it so there should be minimal confusion, but some day I'll sell it and the next guy will need all the help possible. As I get older and slow down, physically and mentally, I will need all the help I can get. It's a bummer getting old and slow (not me!). Jim Nelson RV9-A QB (N599RV reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
Date: Nov 27, 2005
I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's. I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's latest coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held GPS's - rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine couplers have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is until the update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update this summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to "aviation - no altitude". Ronnie Brown Velocity N703MR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2005
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Oil Cooler Issues
I see that Van's recently added an oil cooler vent to its fine stable of catalog accessories. http://tinyurl.com/cc2ay This suggests to me that my Lyc. equipped 6A is not alone in experiencing cooler than desired oil temps. During the summer, even with ground temps flirting with 100 degrees, my stock baffle mounted oil cooler installation stabilized the engine temperature at 170 degrees. I added a "partial plate" to the rear of the cooler and managed to increase the temp to 180 degrees...the recommended temperature as published in the Lycoming operating manual. Now, with much colder weather upon us, I had to block the rear surface of the oil cooler completely off with a "full plate," yet the engine temperature only rose to 154 degrees during a 40 minute recent flight. I then blocked off nearly 1/5 or so of the total forward surface area of the oil cooler with steel tape just to bring the temp up back up to 178 degrees. I happily ordered the new catalog accessory item and hopefully, its installation will finally resolve those vexing cooling issues. I'm curious as to how prevalent the problem really is. Anybody else on this forum experience similiar cooling issues? After all, I know the new vent wasn't designed with just my particular RV in mind. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Printer labels with white ink
Date: Nov 27, 2005
----- Original Message ----- From: Jeff Dowling Subject: Re: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink >How about using clear with black ink? You can buy it in standard 8.5 x 11 >sheets at any office supply store and print in your own printer. I copied >this from someone else and it works great. Once it gets a little old, just >pull it off and use a new one. And I spray my inkjet printer decals with a clear spray can sealer afterwards. They look good, and are easy to copy extras for future use. I've used black as well as other colors for a few, and some have borders. I have a gray panel, and even used a gray fill-in color to hide a scratch under the lettered decal. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Issues
>I see that Van's recently added an oil cooler vent to its fine stable of >catalog accessories. http://tinyurl.com/cc2ay > >This suggests to me that my Lyc. equipped 6A is not alone in experiencing >cooler than desired oil temps. During the summer, even with ground temps >flirting with 100 degrees, my stock baffle mounted oil cooler installation >stabilized the engine temperature at 170 degrees. I had a problem with too hot oil temps this summer. That was corrected by improving the air exit flow. Now my oil temps are running slightly low so I am considering such an oil cooler airflow restriction device. Take good Before and after data so we can decide if it is worth it. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Oil Cooler Issues
Date: Nov 27, 2005
> > I see that Van's recently added an oil cooler vent to its > fine stable of catalog accessories. http://tinyurl.com/cc2ay > > This suggests to me that my Lyc. equipped 6A is not alone in > experiencing cooler than desired oil temps. During the > summer, even with ground temps flirting with 100 degrees, my > stock baffle mounted oil cooler installation stabilized the > engine temperature at 170 degrees. > SNIP > I'm curious as to how prevalent the problem really is. > Anybody else on this forum experience similiar cooling > issues? After all, I know the new vent wasn't designed with > just my particular RV in mind. > > Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" Rick, I put a throttle in the 3" scat leading to my firewall mounted cooler in my O360 RV6A. I can control this with a knob on the panel. The only time I see oil temps above about 190F is during a long climb in hot weather. When OAT's are in the -10 to 40F range, I throttle the cooling air. (I don't fly colder than -10F!) Anyway, when I don't throttle the oil cooler, temps don't get above about 140 or less. Yesterday, I made use of the throttle several times, as the ground temps were about 20F, while at altitude the OAT was around 45F. I can't speak to the effectiveness of Van's new kit, but some throttling is generally necessary for anyone flying in the winter. Most RVers here put plates or tape on and off each season - yesterday was an example of how big a pain that can be. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 694 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
Date: Nov 27, 2005
On 27 Nov 2005, at 08:17, Ron Brown wrote: > > I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS > Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's. > > I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's > latest > coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not > transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held > GPS's - > rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine > couplers > have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is > until the > update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update > this > summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to > "aviation - no altitude". I had thought it was possible to get the Navaid to work with the CDI output from the GNS430. At least that is what I hope to do, whenever I get my RV-8 flying. Is this not possible? Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2005
From: James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
Kevin I was able to couple our KMD 150 (MFD with internal GPS) CDI output to the Navaid autopilot and have it work. You need to be pretty much on course or it will take a while "hunting". Of course there may be some more gain adjustments that I need to do but the bottom line is it does work. Let me know if you need me to look up any details on it as tplane was finished at the end of 2002. James RV6 599 hours On 11/27/05, Kevin Horton wrote: > > > On 27 Nov 2005, at 08:17, Ron Brown wrote: > > > > > I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS > > Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's. > > > > I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's > > latest > > coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not > > transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held > > GPS's - > > rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine > > couplers > > have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is > > until the > > update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update > > this > > summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to > > "aviation - no altitude". > > I had thought it was possible to get the Navaid to work with the CDI > output from the GNS430. At least that is what I hope to do, whenever > I get my RV-8 flying. Is this not possible? > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > -- This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com . ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
Date: Nov 27, 2005
Kevin: Been working for 3 years with by GX60 connected to the CDI output. I did need to program the GX60 to be 0.3 mile full scale deflection to get acceptable tracking results. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,818 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com ----Original Message Follows---- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS Date: Sun, 27 Nov 2005 09:33:03 -0500 I had thought it was possible to get the Navaid to work with the CDI output from the GNS430. At least that is what I hope to do, whenever I get my RV-8 flying. Is this not possible? Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS
>I had thought it was possible to get the Navaid to work with the CDI >output from the GNS430. At least that is what I hope to do, whenever >I get my RV-8 flying. Is this not possible? > >Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Kevin, I have an EZ-pilot and GNS 430. You need the output of pin 56 and the output setup as follows: SETUP PROCEDURES: 1. CONFIGURE THE OUTPUT AS FOLLOWS: A. ENTER THE SETUP MODE BY PRESSING AND HOLDING THE "ENT" KEY WHILE TURNING ON POWER B. SELECT THE "MAIN RS-232 CONFIG" PAGE C. SET THE CHANNEL 1 OUTPUT FIELD TO "AVIATION" I will send a file to you that documents this. Navaid may be different so ask the right person. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave & Brenda Emond" <d_emond(at)mweb.co.za>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Issues
Date: Nov 27, 2005
Hi Ron Would be interested to here what you did?? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Oil Cooler Issues > > >>I see that Van's recently added an oil cooler vent to its fine stable of >>catalog accessories. http://tinyurl.com/cc2ay >> >>This suggests to me that my Lyc. equipped 6A is not alone in experiencing >>cooler than desired oil temps. During the summer, even with ground temps >>flirting with 100 degrees, my stock baffle mounted oil cooler installation >>stabilized the engine temperature at 170 degrees. > > > I had a problem with too hot oil temps this summer. That was corrected by > improving the air exit flow. Now my oil temps are running slightly low so > I > am considering such an oil cooler airflow restriction device. Take good > Before > and after data so we can decide if it is worth it. > > Ron Lee > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2005
From: "Becki" <becki@fly-gbi.com>
Subject: Titanium Tie Downs
Just wondered if anyone knows anything about Randy Simpson who sells the titanium tie downs. We've been trying to get him for a month now via phone and email. We've paid for our tie downs over a month ago through Pay Pal and no response and no tie downs. Sure would like to get some tie downs! Thanks for any help! Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Titanium Tie Downs
Date: Nov 27, 2005
Becki, check the archives. This problem has been ongoing for months if not years. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 694 hours Maple Grove, MN > > Just wondered if anyone knows anything about Randy > Simpson who sells the titanium tie downs. We've been trying > to get him for a month now via phone and email. We've paid > for our tie downs over a month ago through Pay Pal and no > response and no tie downs. Sure would like to get some tie > downs! Thanks for any help! > > Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 27, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Issues
<002301c5f37b$e1bb1b70$a4d217c4@davexp> >Hi Ron > >Would be interested to hear what you did?? First thing I did was to \remove the cabin heat tubes that went down to one heat muff..across the air exit path to another heatmuff than back across to the inlet. That created resistance to air leaving the bottom cowl. Improvement about 6-8 deg C Then I cut open the outer portion of the middle area of the lower cowl around the exhaust...about 3-4 inches. About the same cooling improvement. Finally I added louvers on the bottom...same improvement. After all three oil temps are no longer an issue. Somewhere I documented the improvement with each change so the numbers above are best recollection. Fact is that the high oil temp problem is gone and now I may need to put a cooling air restriction device for winter ops. Louver info here: http://www.attawayair.com/rv6a.htm This picture shows my louver and the opened area around the exhaust after my plane was painted a manly navy blue: http://home.pcisys.net/~ronlee/RV6A/Cowl_Louver_Small.jpg Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: "j. davis" <jd(at)lawsonimaging.ca>
Subject: Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters
CBRxxDRV(at)aol.com wrote: > >In a message dated 11/23/05 2:47:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, jim(at)pellien.com >writes: > > > > >>Does anybody know of a cheap place to buy spark plugs and oil filters for >>the Rotax 912ULS engine? >> >> >> > >Oil Filter: > >If my memory serves me....a Fram PH3614 is the one you need >or you can even cross it over to other brands. A 4 cyl Chrysler K-car >I think is the application . > >Do a search on Google.com to be sure. > > > > I have been warned by Rotax mechanics that substituting an automotive oil filter for a genuine Rotax filter is not recommended: the Rotax engine develops significantly higher oil pressures than automotive engines, so you could unknowingly be bypassing your filter via the high pressure bypass. > > > > -- Regards, J. built: Zenith STOL CH701/912 C-IGGY, 250 hrs. building: Sonex #325, Jabiru 3300/6, 50% completed Brandywine Aviation: N42 47.33 W081 36.50 13/31, 2400', 760'elev. | J. Davis, M.Sc. (comp_sci) | *NIX guru, consultant | | Research Programmer, SysMgr | email: jd at lawsonimaging.ca | | Lawson Health Research Inst | voice: 519 6466100 x64166 | | London, Ontario | fax: 519 6466399 | | Canada | http://www.cleco.ca | Everywhere is walking distance if you have the time. --- Steven Wright ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Esten Spears" <ewspears(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Ron, I must be missing something on this thread. Most panel mount GPS's don't even require a Porcine Coupler to work with a Navaid. The Porcine Coupler was developed so people could use handheld GPS's to drive Navaids. Panel Mounts, like my Garmin XL 250 use the "+LEFT" and "+RIGHT" Indicator Drive Output directly into the Navaid. I would be interested to know what "course deviation sensitivity" people have found to work best with a RV/Panel Mount GPS/Navaid Setup since this can be set in the GPS Setup Screens. Thanks! Esten Spears, Leeward Air Ranch, RV8A, 80922, N922ES, - FWF > From: "Ron Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> > Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS > > > I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS > Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's. > > I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's latest > coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not > transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held GPS's - > rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine couplers > have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is until the > update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update this > summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to > "aviation - no altitude". > > Ronnie Brown > Velocity N703MR ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05
Date: Nov 28, 2005
I called Navaid and set what they recommended. It was a pretty small scale but I forgot what it was. Shemp/Jeff Dowling RV-6A, N915JD 235 hours Chicago/Louisville ----- Original Message ----- From: "Esten Spears" <ewspears(at)comcast.net> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 11/27/05 > > Ron, > I must be missing something on this thread. Most panel mount GPS's > don't even require a Porcine Coupler to work with a Navaid. The Porcine > Coupler was developed so people could use handheld GPS's to drive Navaids. > Panel Mounts, like my Garmin XL 250 use the "+LEFT" and "+RIGHT" > Indicator Drive Output directly into the Navaid. > I would be interested to know what "course deviation sensitivity" > people have found to work best with a RV/Panel Mount GPS/Navaid Setup > since this can be set in the GPS Setup Screens. > Thanks! > Esten Spears, Leeward Air Ranch, RV8A, 80922, N922ES, - FWF > >> From: "Ron Brown" <romott(at)adelphia.net> >> Subject: RV-List: Re: RV-List Navaid Coupler with Panel Mount GPS >> >> >> I got a question yesterday about my Navaid Auto Pilot with Porcine GPS >> Coupler and Panel Mounted GPS's. >> >> I got my Garmin 430 to work with my Navaid after getting Porcine's latest >> coupler update. The problem is that most panel mounted GPS's do not >> transmit the NEMA RS232 data streams that are common to hand held GPS's - >> rather they transmit a data stream called "aviation". The Porcine >> couplers >> have worked well with hand held GPS's but not "aviation", that is until >> the >> update that was made in 2004. I got around to getting this update this >> summer and IT WORKS! The aviation data stream will need to be set to >> "aviation - no altitude". >> >> Ronnie Brown >> Velocity N703MR > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com>
Subject: Used O-470 Engine Parts
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Listers, Have a friend with an airboat sporting an inop Cont O-470. Anyone have a source of used (uncertifiable, out of spec, etc.) parts? My thought is we can probably get this thing running well enough for use on the local duck pond with throw-away (for aviation use anyway) parts. Thanks in advance, Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: 912ULS Spark Plugs and Oil Filters
> > I have been warned by Rotax mechanics that substituting an > automotive oil filter for a genuine Rotax filter is not recommended: > the Rotax engine develops significantly higher oil pressures than > automotive engines, so you could unknowingly be bypassing your > filter via the high pressure bypass. > You need to have your mechanics explain to you the technical reasons why you wouldn't substitute filters...I'll bet you they can't. High operating oil pressures have nothing to do with bypass valve operation. Bypass valves for filters are spec'ed by the filter manufacturers as a low number. This low number is the amount of pressure *differential* from the inlet side to the outlet side of the filter; in other words, across the filter. Once pressure comes up, there should be little pressure differential. I avoid Fram filters, there is plenty of information on the web regarding which filters perform the best. Fram is always at the bottom of those lists. I use a Wix 51068 on my O-360, not the standard Champion 48110. It bypasses at 8-11 psi. It has a anti-drainback valve which the 48110 doesn't. After an oil change I can leave the filter over a cup to drain out for a few days, once I cut it open I can dump 1/2 qt. of oil out of it. The benefit of this is that there is always oil inside the filter, so during cranking it takes less time for the galleys and filter to pressurize and fill with oil, which has obvious wear benefits. On one oil analysis, Blackstone stated that the numbers looked like what they see for 35 hr. oil even though my change interval is 50 hours. The other great thing about using this filter is it only costs $5.79, and judging by my past oil analyses, filters better than the 48110. No there's no safety nut on it, and I am comfortable with not having the filter safety wired. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying, F1 under const. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "davercook" <davercook(at)prodigy.net>
Subject: Re: Printer labels with white ink
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Hi Jim The labels are TZ-S135 ,available on the Brothers Web site. I use the P-touch 1180 labeler. Dave Cook RV-6 Finish Kit N815DC Res. ----- Original Message ----- From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com> Subject: RV-List: Printer labels with white ink > > I have a medium grey panel and need white letters on clear labels to note > functions. Who makes a white ink cartridge for what printer so I can > make some labels? > > > Jim Nelson > RV9-A (wiring done, on to the canopy) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <erichweaver(at)cox.net>
Subject: AN fittings basic info
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Howdy Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread portions of fittings, correct? (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to installation instructions at http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh? (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare? (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. Erich Weaver ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Scott Bilinski <bilinski@kyocera-wireless.com>
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
From my experience, tighten until they no longer leak! Not trying to be a smart ass here but it is amazing just how tight they need to be in order to not leak. It varies a lot from fitting to fitting, even though they are "the same fitting" just different location. Remember your not building a Swiss watch. > >Howdy > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few >questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > >(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread >portions of fittings, correct? > >(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on >flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a >torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent >any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without >measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to >installation instructions at >http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which >talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This >only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut >after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being >distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of >"Flareless Tube Installation". Huh? > >(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing >with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare? > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. >I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or >just one? > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > >Erich Weaver > > Scott Bilinski Eng dept 305 Phone (858) 657-2536 Pager (858) 502-5190 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2005
If you want to use a torque wrench on AN flare fittings - fit a "crowsfoot" extension to the square socket drive. You have to recalculate the torque setting required as a factor of the change in length of the torque wrench caused by the extension. This is the same method you use on rod end jam nuts. There's a section on this in that Advisory Circular published by the FAA - I think its called "Acceptable Aircraft Repair Techniques" or something like that. The collective wisdom I've gathered on lube and AN fittings is to use a teflon based paste on pipe threads only. Don't use ANYTHING on flared fittings - the compression caused between the 37 degree flared faces is sufficient for a gas/fluid seal. As to torque settings for the flare fitting - I hope someone else can enlighten - I haven't found anything so far ... g > > > Howdy > > Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still > have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing > AC 43.13 > > (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe > thread portions of fittings, correct? > > (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening > fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, > but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the > tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over > it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual > torque applied? One archive post referred to installation > instructions at > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, > which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins > to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about > how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common > problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round > etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube > Installation". Huh? > > (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for > tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double > flare? > > (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers > are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they > go on both sides or just one? > > Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > Erich Weaver > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AN fittings basic info
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Erich, Here's what I learned from our company A&P many months ago. I can't recall the reference. -4 fitting: 40 - 60 inch-pounds -6 fitting: 110 - 130 inch-pounds Also, Dan has a torque calculator on his site when an extension such as a "crow's feet" is used. Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of erichweaver(at)cox.net Subject: RV-List: AN fittings basic info Howdy Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread portions of fittings, correct? (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to installation instructions at http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh? (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare? (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. Erich Weaver ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: sportav8r(at)aol.com
Subject: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the pursuit of an IFR ticket. First step seems obvious: take ground school at home on the laptop with a CDROM or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim that will emulate (or come close) my RV-6A. I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand knowledge to help guide my shopping. I'd hate to buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have steered me in a better direction. Looking for course, textbook and sim software & hardware recommendations. Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you feel this is not of general/archival interest. -Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Mark Grieve <mark(at)macomb.com>
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
erichweaver(at)cox.net wrote: > >Howdy > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > >(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread portions of fittings, correct? > >(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to installation instructions at http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh? > >(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare? > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > >Erich Weaver > > > > Excellent questions Erich! You won't learn if you don't ask questions. Since most of the other questions have been answered, I'll tackle #3. A double flare is formed using a really spiffy tool. The end of the tube is folded back into the flare which gives the flare double thickness. Read extra strength. The small diameter tubing just doesn't have much material to work with if you are only doing a single flare. I found this picture which should help explain. http://www.phi-tulip.com/images/flaredr.gif Happy building Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports
Date: Nov 28, 2005
The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed (non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject are: 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern? 2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart for private runways. 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when you land!) Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything. I am just interested. Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Nov 28, 2005
BTW the FAA publication I mentioned is: US Department of Transportation Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection And Repair". Its typical government speak, but its stuffed with excellent information ... g > > > > If you want to use a torque wrench on AN flare fittings - fit a > "crowsfoot" extension to the square socket drive. You have to > recalculate the torque setting required as a factor of the > change in length of the torque wrench caused by the extension. > This is the same method you use on rod end jam nuts. There's a > section on this in that Advisory Circular published by the FAA > - I think its called "Acceptable Aircraft Repair Techniques" or > something like that. > > The collective wisdom I've gathered on lube and AN fittings is > to use a teflon based paste on pipe threads only. Don't use > ANYTHING on flared fittings - the compression caused between > the 37 degree flared faces is sufficient for a gas/fluid seal. > > As to torque settings for the flare fitting - I hope someone > else can enlighten - I haven't found anything so far ... > > g > > > > > > > Howdy > > > > Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still > > have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing > > AC 43.13 > > > > (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe > > thread portions of fittings, correct? > > > > (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening > > fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, > > but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the > > tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over > > it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual > > torque applied? One archive post referred to installation > > instructions at > > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, > > which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins > > to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about > > how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common > > problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round > > etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube > > Installation". Huh? > > > > (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for > > tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double > > flare? > > > > (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers > > are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they > > go on both sides or just one? > > > > Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > > > Erich Weaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: AN fittings basic info
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Chapter 5, page 117 of AC65-9A has the torque table for the AN fittings. Google AC65-9A and select the 8th or 9th item on the list to find this in PDF format (select chapter 5, then go to page 117). Bill -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Subject: Re: RV-List: AN fittings basic info BTW the FAA publication I mentioned is: US Department of Transportation Advisory Circular AC 43.13-1B "Acceptable Methods, Techniques, and Practices - Aircraft Inspection And Repair". Its typical government speak, but its stuffed with excellent information ... g > > > > If you want to use a torque wrench on AN flare fittings - fit a > "crowsfoot" extension to the square socket drive. You have to > recalculate the torque setting required as a factor of the > change in length of the torque wrench caused by the extension. > This is the same method you use on rod end jam nuts. There's a > section on this in that Advisory Circular published by the FAA > - I think its called "Acceptable Aircraft Repair Techniques" or > something like that. > > The collective wisdom I've gathered on lube and AN fittings is > to use a teflon based paste on pipe threads only. Don't use > ANYTHING on flared fittings - the compression caused between > the 37 degree flared faces is sufficient for a gas/fluid seal. > > As to torque settings for the flare fitting - I hope someone > else can enlighten - I haven't found anything so far ... > > g > > > > > > > Howdy > > > > Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still > > have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing > > AC 43.13 > > > > (1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe > > thread portions of fittings, correct? > > > > (2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening > > fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, > > but how does one use a torque wrench on a fitting when the > > tubing coming out of it would prevent any socket from gong over > > it? Can I safely tighten these without measuring the actual > > torque applied? One archive post referred to installation > > instructions at > > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, > > which talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins > > to bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about > > how far to turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common > > problems like the flare being distorted/cracked/out of round > > etc, it was all under a heading of "Flareless Tube > > Installation". Huh? > > > > (3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for > > tubing with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double > > flare? > > > > (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers > > are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they > > go on both sides or just one? > > > > Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > > > Erich Weaver > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
I used king schools for private, instrument, commercial, multi, and CFI/CFII. I like their materials alot, and found them to prepare you quite well for the written exam. Microsoft flight sim is great for procedural stuff. Get a CFII to teach you the basics of approaches and such, and you'd be amazed at what a good tool it is. Paul Besing --- sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote: > > Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the > pursuit of an IFR ticket. First step seems obvious: > take ground school at home on the laptop with a > CDROM or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim > that will emulate (or come close) my RV-6A. > > I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand > knowledge to help guide my shopping. I'd hate to > buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have > steered me in a better direction. Looking for > course, textbook and sim software & hardware > recommendations. > > Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you > feel this is not of general/archival interest. > > -Stormy > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ Access over 1 million songs. Try it free. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com>
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
I did it on the King tapes, pre DVD, with no problems. For me it was much better to go to a school out of town and away from my business for a couple days a couple times. This let me concentrate on what I was doing without constant interruptions which would have made it very difficult. . The learning curve is pretty steep, but when the light finally came on - a very dim light- it all made sense. RV-9 wings Bill Schlatterer wrote: > >Stormy, having just "been there, done it" I can really say that it's a > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
http://www.x-plane.com http://www.x-plane.org The first site is the developer of the program. Top notch flying characteristics. You can change any weather perameter you wish. I have flown a G5 in terrible thunderstorms, in the clouds and learned how to hold course while getting tossed like tonights salad. You are in contact with ATC (vocal/text to you, text to ATC)at all times while IFR. Shooting approaches into an airport setting the cloud deck at 200 feet test your mettle. Navcomm freqs are used, HSI, CDI and any other alphabet instruments are available. You can design the instrument panel to be exactly like the plane you would be using for IFR training. This program is not a game. It can be used used for logging sim time toward an ATP rating. The ground graphics leave a lot to be desired, but if that is what you want, get MS flight sim 200x. The second site is an aircraft developer's site. Download an aircraft, modify it if you want, and fly. Other add ons are available as well. I fly this sim through the winter when flying weather is at a premium here in Michigan. I find it helps keep procedures sharp and hands and feet coordinated. BTW, I am not a computer gamer. I do use a joystick and rudder pedals. My $.02. Dave --- sportav8r(at)aol.com wrote: > > Ok, everyone, I'm ready to better myself through the > pursuit of an IFR ticket. First step seems obvious: > take ground school at home on the laptop with a > CDROM or DVD course, and practice with a flight sim > that will emulate (or come close) my RV-6A. > > I'd appreciate recommendations based on firsthand > knowledge to help guide my shopping. I'd hate to > buy a lemon off eBay when the List could have > steered me in a better direction. Looking for > course, textbook and sim software & hardware > recommendations. > > Thanks in advance. Off-list responses okay if you > feel this is not of general/archival interest. > > -Stormy > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
erichweaver(at)cox.net wrote: >(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on flared tubing. I have found torque specifications > The problem with using a torque value is they are written for a certain metal with a certain finish, if you use a fitting with a different metal or different finish or a tiny bit oil or other liquid gets on the threads or other part of the fitting those torque values are worthless. A better and much easier method is the called the FFFT or Flats From Finger Tight method, this method works no mater what the surface condition of the fitting is weather or not it is wet or dry. The quote below is from pdf file published by Parker. Parker is one of the biggest manufactures of fittings, so they should know what they are talking about. I don't know where on the site the pdf file is but you can probably find it a parker.com/ When I worked for a construction equipment manufacture the 37 degree flare fittings were all that we used on hoses and tubing for hydraulic lines at 3000+ PSI. When working on hydraulics it is impossible to not get the hydraulic oil on the fittings, and with the oil on them the torque numbers don't work so we always used the FFFT method. Well it looks like too much work to copy and past all the charts and stuff from the PDF so I found the link http://www.parker.com/tfd/cat/pdffiles/T-Assembly Installation.pdf Note it looks like they now like to call it FFWR or Flats From Wrench Resistance. If you want to start at the beginning and see the whole fittings catalog start here... http://www.parker.com/tfd/cat/pdffiles/Open.pdf -- Chris W KE5GIX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: AN fittings basic info
Date: Nov 28, 2005
Erich, Maybe relating some real world experience will be helpful. (1) You are correct that lubes and sealants are not needed on B-nuts. The threads on the B-nut play no part in making the physical seal. All the sealing takes place at the flare; the B-nut provides pressure against the ferrule to seal the female flare against the male cone. A correctly flared tube and B-nut will not come loose by itself, even without sealant or locking compound. I have seen a very few instances of saftied B-nuts. These have been on turbine helicopter engines and in other places were a failure would be instantly catastrophic. I can't think of an application on an RV that would need a saftied B-nut. (2) In A&P school they showed us a set of special open-end torque wrenches in a walnut case, years out of calibration, that were never ever used. In the following 20 years as a GA A&P I haven't seen one since. You will get the hang of torquing B-nuts by hand. If you want to check the quality of flares and look for leaks you can pressurize most circuits with shop air (NOT FUEL TANKS!!!) and check for leaks with soapy water. As a general rule the B-nut should thread onto the fitting without any interference and virtually no drag. Any drag usually indicates interference or misalignment. The nut will come to a firm stop when it bottoms on the ferrule edge. From there it needs only moderate pressure to stay tight, much less than a whole turn, maybe 1/6 or 2/3. You could use the values you found on some practice parts, with the tube cut short, to get the feel for how tight to make them. (3) A double flare needs an expensive tool to fabricate. It folds the flare back in on itself making the flare two wall thicknesses deep. We have fabricated many 1K+ psi hydraulic and oxygen systems using single flares. The biggest problem I see in flaring is getting the flare size correct. We use a Rigid flaring tool that makes nice flares if we leave the tube a little shy of the clamp edge, which is not where one would naturally set it. Like torquing, it just takes a few practice runs. (4) I'm not quite sure what you mean by spacer washers. Large area washers help spread out the load in soft materials, ie, composites/wood, etc. You could space a bulkhead fitting back if it helped line up a tube or hose but there is no general requirement to use them. If you have questions, feel free to email or call our shop any time. I'd be glad to get you more information. Happy Flaring, Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 831-722-9141 Bolting my -10 empennage together ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: David Leonard <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports
Ivan, This is just my understanding and is probably not entirely correct. I believe that an owner can only request that operations at his airport be done in a particular way, but there is no particular way to enforce these requests other than not allowing violators access (the owner obviously has the authority to do that). In general, traffic pattern policy at any airport is just a recommendation and a statement general policy at that airport. Done for reasons of safety and or noise abatement they allow for everyone to be on the same page. However, the pilot has the ultimate responsibility for safety and deviations from the standard are OK when the conditions dictate. I thought that noise abatement was voluntary, but one of our local airports has found a way to send you a ticket if your plane is louder than certain levels as measured by sensors in the departure path. So that shows you what I know. Dave Leonard On 11/28/05, H.Ivan Haecker wrote: > > > The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. > > The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to > keep traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will > be right-handed (non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on > the subject are: > > 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic > pattern? > > 2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many > open-to the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional > charts for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a > Sectional chart for private runways. > > 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem > appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on > the ground when you land!) > > Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything. > I am just interested. > > Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX -- Dave Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 28, 2005
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports
On 19:18:14 2005-11-28 "H.Ivan Haecker" wrote: > 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic > pattern? Legally? Maybe not. But practically, he can raise a lot of trouble for you if you don't follow the procedures. Do you need prior permission to fly into a private strip? If so, then he can easily claim you don't have it, and get you violated for that. > 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem > appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people > on the ground when you land!) In Canada, you can't just fly any pattern you want to. If it's uncontrolled, and largely inactive, it's unlikely anyone will see you if you choose to do something contrary to local policy. But be forewarned that if you do, you risk aggravating whoever or whatever is located on the upwind side of the airport. If it's a housing development, and the airport owner has made a voluntary agreement to try and abate noise by keeping the circuit to one side, and if you make it your mission to fly on the wrong side, you can expect the owners to make it their mission to close the strip. This will make you very unpopular with the airstrip owner and the other users of the strip. There is nothing unsafe about a right-hand pattern at an uncontrolled field where this pattern is the standard procedure. My home airport also has all circuits to one side, and it works very very well. All approaches are from one side at circuit altitude. You do your wind check at midfield, and choose the downwind (left or right) at that point. In some ways, it makes it simpler because you don't need to overfly or circle around waiting for someone to make a radio call in order to figure out what the wind is doing first. > Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over > anything. I am just interested. Not to offend, but the way the questions were worded to gave me the impression that someone you know is one of those "i'll do whatever I damn well please" types, who won't listen to local rules (or to reason). I hope someone answers with some more definitive answers with respect to the regs. -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
Hey Stormy, I just did this in my 6A. With a GNS 430 I did VOR, ILS and GPS approaches. No stinkin ADF! I used the Gleim CD for the course work then borrowed a King CD. I probably would have gotten about 90-92% with just the Gleim but the King bumped me up to 97%. I got a lot from the King CD (or DVD now?) that you don't get just reading questions. I took the written test after I was almost done with the flying. Not a problem. I have not taken the practical yet because of a vacuum issue that needs to be fixed. Just be sure to find a good instructor who doesn't yell. yelling is counterproductive. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2005
From: James Clark <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
Ron, Just curious ... What numbers/power settings do you use in the different phases of flight in the 6A? I am doing a numbers "work up" now with a 6 and was wondering what works for others. For example: (I *think* this is what I am settling on) Enroute cruise 25" MP (with a fixed pitch prop) "Terminal Area"/ Maneuvering 20" Established on localizer 15" and trim for level FAF 12.5" Middle Marker: Full idle. Runway environ in sight hold alt + full flaps and land No runway, go missed I am giving this as an example before having adequate coffee so it could ALL be wrong. Just curious. Thanks, James p.s. STORMY ... There are flight models available for the RV as well with MS Flight Sim On 11/29/05, Ron Lee wrote: > > > Hey Stormy, I just did this in my 6A. With a GNS 430 I did VOR, ILS > and GPS approaches. No stinkin ADF! > > I used the Gleim CD for the course work then borrowed a King CD. I > probably would have gotten about 90-92% with just the Gleim but the King > bumped me up to 97%. I got a lot from the King CD (or DVD now?) > that you don't get just reading questions. > > I took the written test after I was almost done with the flying. Not a > problem. I have not taken the practical yet because of a vacuum > issue that needs to be fixed. > > Just be sure to find a good instructor who doesn't yell. yelling is > counterproductive. > > Ron Lee > > -- This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at james(at)nextupventures.com . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2005
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Double Flaring tubing was AN fittings basic info
At 08:40 PM 11/28/2005, you wrote: > >erichweaver(at)cox.net wrote: > > > > >Howdy > > > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a > few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > > > >(1)Sounds like lubricants are off limits except for the pipe thread > portions of fittings, correct? > > > >(2)Im confused about the proper technique for tightening fittings on > flared tubing. I have found torque specifications, but how does one use > a torque wrench on a fitting when the tubing coming out of it would > prevent any socket from gong over it? Can I safely tighten these without > measuring the actual torque applied? One archive post referred to > installation instructions at > http://avstop.com/AC/apgeneral/INSTALLATIONOFRIGIDTUBING/html, which > talked about how many turns to apply after the nut begins to > bottom. This only confused me, because while it talks about how far to > turn the nut after it bottoms and cites common problems like the flare > being distorted/cracked/out of round etc, it was all under a heading of > "Flareless Tube Installation". Huh? > > > >(3) AC 43.13 indicates that a "double flare" should be used for tubing > with a diamter of 3/8 inch and less. Whats a double flare? > > > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are > used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both > sides or just one? > > > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > > >Erich Weaver > > > > > > > > >Excellent questions Erich! You won't learn if you don't ask questions. >Since most of the other questions have been answered, I'll tackle #3. A >double flare is formed using a really spiffy tool. The end of the tube >is folded back into the flare which gives the flare double thickness. >Read extra strength. The small diameter tubing just doesn't have much >material to work with if you are only doing a single flare. I found this >picture which should help explain. >http://www.phi-tulip.com/images/flaredr.gif >Happy building >Mark Eric, I'm with Mark regarding the use of double flares. Flaring stretches the aluminum tubing. It is stretched the most at the lip. This means that the lip is where the material is now severely thinned. The aluminum is also work hardened during this process. The combination of work hardening and thinning the material invites cracks to form on the flare. As shown in the link Mark provided, the double flare folds the edge of the flare over. This effectively doubles the thickness of the end of the flare. It also leaves the edge as a 180 degree bend, rather than an edge. This is what makes the double flare superior. FYI The US Department of Transportation mandates that auto makers use ONLY double flares on the brake lines of all automobiles sold in the US. Your auto mechanic is also forbidden to make any repairs that do not also use double flares. The dilemma for most builders is the cost of aviation double flaring tools. The price for the one I purchased recently jumped from $400 to almost $700. See http://www.usatco.com/tubing_tools_01.asp I managed to find a brand new unit on EBay last year for $130, after a 2 month search. This is the type of tool that is best purchased by an EAA Chapter or local RV builders group, for use by the membership. That makes it cost effective for each user. This tool is a joy to use. It does not mark or damage the tubing at the clamping point below the flare. If you have any A&P friends, I suggest that you contact them to see if anyone owns a unit you can borrow. Regarding your first question, I apply Never Seize to the threaded area of the male end of flare fittings. This is not required. AN fittings are anodized to prevent galling of the 2 parts. However, my experience is that if you live in a corrosive environment or if you tend to over tighten the fittings, Never Seize (a trade name for generic anti-seize compound) makes future disassembly easier. It also gives you a better chance to tighten up a leaking fitting at a later date, as it reduces the "start up" torque required to get the B nut to start moving again. The fluid fitting tightening method described in the web link above is an acceptable alternative to using a torque wrench on the fittings. As mentioned earlier by another lister, use of a crows foot wrench with a torque wrench allows you to torque the fittings. Another alternate method is to simply torque a test fitting in a vice. Draw a line across the two fittings once they are torqued. Now loosen the fittings and re-tighten the fittings using a tubing or open end wrench till the lines you have previously drawn, line up. Remember the amount of effort which was required to re-tighten the B nut. Tighten your fittings to this same amount. You can easily approximate the torque required from muscle memory. It is best to stick to the recommended torque initially. You may need to go back later and apply slightly more torque later, to correct a leaking fitting. If the fitting still leaks, don't just keep tightening. The message you should get from that situation is: There is something wrong with the flare. I need to disassemble the joint and inspect it for cracks or foreign debris contamination. When spacer washers are required, I generally install the spacer under the nut end of the fitting. This allows the spacer to protect the material being penetrated from being scarred by the rotating nut. General rule of thumb is to always hold the fitting and tighten by rotating the nut. This applies to general hardware, as well as hydraulic fittings. Charlie Kuss PS Subject line changed to allow easier future archive searching. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mark & Lisa" <marknlisa(at)hometel.com>
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
Date: Nov 29, 2005
Stormy, I suggest you find someone that's currently training for their instrument rating and ask to sit in the back seat and watch. Alternatively, find a couple of intrument-rated friends and volunteer to provide safety pilot services. In my opinion you can learn more about procedures from watching someone else (especially another student getting instruction) than you can while you're flying the plane. Learning to control the aircraft is the easy part for most, learning all the procedures (when to start the checklist, when to make the radio call, etc.) while learning to control the aircraft is really hard, especially if you've no prior exposure to the IFR environment. Regards, Mark & Lisa Sletten Legacy FG N828LM http://www.legacyfgbuilder.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports
Date: Nov 29, 2005
>From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> >Subject: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports > >The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. > >The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep >traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed >(non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject >are: > >1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern? > >2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to >the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts >for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart >for private runways. > >3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate >(albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when >you land!) > >Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything. I am >just interested. > >Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX > Hi Ivan- Those are good questions, and you got me to thinking about the fine print of the situation. So much so, that I looked up the relevant (and some not so relevant) references to see what guidance I could find. First, FAR 1.1 says that "Traffic Pattern means the traffic flow that is prescribed for aircraft landing at, taxiing on, or taking off from, an airport." Note there is no mention of who writes the prescription, limits on what kind of airport it applies to, and that it also includes ground movement. Next, WRT noise abatement, AIM 4-3-6 (b) states "Airport proprietors are responsible for taking the lead in local aviation noise control. Accordingly, they may propose specific noise abatement plans to the FAA. If approved, these plans are applied in the form of Formal or Informal Runway Use Programs for noise abatement purposes." Now, yes, I do realize that the AIM is not regulatory. There is some fine print to add to that concept, tho- First, the AIM is the considered opinion of the FAA. If you operate contrary to this opinion, then the feds are liable to consider you 'careless and reckless', their generic violation of FAR 91.13. The next caveat comes into play should you find yourself in a court room. It seems that there is a concept (I forget it's proper name) in law wherein an acknowledged expert in a given field can speak the gospel. In this scenario, the courts accept that the FAA is an acknowledged expert, and if they say you should operate in a certain manner, the court will go along with that. The bottom line is that in the cockpit the AIM is not regulatory, but once you get into a court room, it is. FAR 91.103 states"Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight...", so lack of familiarity with the local traffic pattern is not acceptable, as long as that info is available. Also, FAR 91.126(b)(1) [Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class G airspace] states "Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right..." As I read it, your airport proprietor in question can require right traffic, but that needs to be visibly displayed to inbound traffic. Then again, a private field doesn't need to comply with all the fed standards, hence the 'use at your own risk' notations. FAR 91.127 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class E airspace says, in part, "....must comply with the requirements of para 91.126." So, as I read it all, the airport proprietor can mandate non standard patterns, but that information needs to be available to the pilot group. Once those requirements are met, compliance isn't optional. I hope that this was of some use to my fellow listers- Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: AN fittings basic info
Date: Nov 29, 2005
>Howdy > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions >after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there >a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > >Erich Weaver Howdy y'own self! If you were to put a 3/8 (-6) bulkhead fitting through your firewall, you wouldn't be able to tighten it down to the firewall due to the thinness of the SS and the length of the threaded portion of the fitting. Putting a spacer(s) on the fitting allows it to grip the firewall properly. WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the specs for aluminum fittings? Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: wgill10(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
Date: Nov 29, 2005
Enter AC65-9A into Google...then select the 8th or 9th link down on the list...then select chaper 5...then look at the table at the top of page 117 (page numbers on the bottom of the PDF pages). There, you will find the torque values for both aluminum and steel fittings. Bill -------------- Original message -------------- > > >Howdy > > > >Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few > questions > >after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 > > > > > >(4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. > I there > >a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? > > > >Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. > > > >Erich Weaver > > > Howdy y'own self! > > If you were to put a 3/8 (-6) bulkhead fitting through your firewall, you > wouldn't be able to tighten it down to the firewall due to the thinness of > the SS and the length of the threaded portion of the fitting. Putting a > spacer(s) on the fitting allows it to grip the firewall properly. > > WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I > noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the > specs for aluminum fittings? > > > Glen Matejcek > aerobubba(at)earthlink.net > > > > > > Enter AC65-9A into Google...then select the 8th or 9th link down on the list...then select chaper 5...then look at the table at the top of page 117 (page numbers on the bottom of the PDF pages). There, you will find the torque values for both aluminum and steel fittings. Bill -------------- Original message -------------- -- RV-List message posted by: "Glen Matejcek" Howdy Excuse my ignorance, but AN fittings are new to me, and I still have a few questions after searching the archives and perusing AC 43.13 (4)I have seen photos of bulkhead fittings where spacer washers are used. I there a rule of thumb on when to use these? Do they go on both sides or just one? Ignorance is not bliss in this case. My head hurts. Erich Weaver Howdy y'own self! If you were to put a 3/8 (-6) bulkhead fitting through your firewall, you wouldn't be able to tighten it down to the firewall due to the thinn ess of the SS and the length of the threaded portion of the fitting. Putting a spacer(s) on the fitting allows it to grip the firewall properly. WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the specs for aluminum fittings? Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net m, and ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2005
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: AN fittings basic info
Glen Matejcek wrote: >WRT the Parker web page and counting flats to set the B nut properly, all I >noticed were directions for steel, SS, and brass. Can anyone verify the >specs for aluminum fittings? > > I don't know why they never mention aluminum fittings. There are only 2 reasons that I can think of that would make it any different for aluminum. One, is if the aluminum threads can't handle the stress of being that tight. I haven't read any specs on the strength of brass but I would think that a high quality aluminum alloy would be as strong as brass, so if the brass are strong enough, I would think the aluminum would be too. Two, would be if aluminum tend to gall, I understand the anodizing on the AN fittings is to help prevent that, a little bit of anti seize lube wouldn't hurt either, I know they recommend it on stainless steel as well. For those who don't know, galling is when two pieces of metal rub together under very high pressure and the friction causes the surfaces to tare out little chucks of metal. Not good! I did find one site that mentions aluminum and just says to put some anti seize on the fittings. It also says that the torque method is preferred over FFFT but Parker contradicts that and I go with Parker on that one, it just makes more sense to me. http://www.interactmultimedia.com/airway/tightening.htm -- Chris W KE5GIX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Date: Nov 29, 2005
Subject: Proper torque for Hartzell bolts through spinner backplate
Guys, I thought I'd pass this along for those of you with Hartzell props.... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection (and subsequent first flight in the dead of winter in Iowa....Ugh!) "Ryan, Kevin" wrote on 11/29/2005 04:06:02 PM: > Mark: > > I was intriqued by your question, so I asked our "nuts & bolts" engineer > here at Hartzell. He informed me that the rolling torque or "drag" between > the nut and the bolt as the nut is tightened is accounted for when the > torque specifications are calculated. It is not necessary, therefore, to add > the torque caused by the drag between the nut and the bolt to the specified > torque. 20-22 ft-lbs is sufficient for these nuts. You can simply back the > nuts off and apply to proper torque (20-22 ft-lbs). > > If you have any additional questions, or if I can be of further assistance, > please feel free to contact me at your convenience. > > Regards, > > Kevin M. Ryan > Product Support Representative > Hartzell Propeller Inc. > Phone: 937.778.4379 > Fax: 937.778.4391 > Email: techsupport(at)hartzellprop.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com [mailto:menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com] > Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 4:03 PM > To: Huelsman, Brad > Subject: bolt torque question > > Hi Brad, > > Over the weekend I installed the aft spinner bulkhead on my Hartzell prop > using the bolts that go through the hub at the root of each blade. The > Hartzell manual calls out 20-22 ft lbs for the torque on these bolts. I > believe it's standard practice to add the torque required to turn the lock > nut to this value. I measured approx 9 ft lbs of torque required to turn > the locknut before it contacted the hub so I added this to the spec and set > the wrench for 30 ft lbs. Just wanted to confirm that this is correct so > that I don't damage anything....? > > Thanks, > > --Mark Navratil > Cedar Rapids, Iowa > RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection... Guys, IthoughtI'dpassthisalongforthoseofyouwithHartzellprops.... --MarkNavratil CedarRapids,Iowa RV-8AN2Dalmostreadyforfinalinspection(andsubsequentfirstflightin thedeadofwinterinIowa....Ugh!) "Ryan,Kevin"kryan(at)HartzellProp.comwroteon11/29/200504:06:02PM: Mark: Iwasintriquedbyyourquestion,soIaskedour"nutsbolts"engineer hereatHartzell.Heinformedmethattherollingtorqueor"drag" between thenutandtheboltasthenutistightenedisaccountedforwhenthe torquespecificationsarecalculated.Itisnotnecessary,therefore,to add thetorquecausedbythedragbetweenthenutandthebolttothe specified torque.20-22ft-lbsissufficientforthesenuts.Youcansimplyback the nutsoffandapplytopropertorque(20-22ft-lbs). Ifyouhaveanyadditionalquestions,orifIcanbeoffurther assistance, pleasefeelfreetocontactmeatyourconvenience. Regards, KevinM.Ryan ProductSupportRepresentative HartzellPropellerInc. Phone:937.778.4379 Fax:937.778.4391 Email:techsupport(at)hartzellprop.com -----OriginalMessage----- From:menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com[mailto:menavrat(at)rockwellcollins.com] Sent:Monday,November28,20054:03PM To:Huelsman,Brad Subject:bolttorquequestion HiBrad, OvertheweekendIinstalledtheaftspinnerbulkheadonmyHartzellprop usingtheboltsthatgothroughthehubattherootofeachblade.The Hartzellmanualcallsout20-22ftlbsforthetorqueonthesebolts.I believeit'sstandardpracticetoaddthetorquerequiredtoturnthe lock nuttothisvalue.Imeasuredapprox9ftlbsoftorquerequiredtoturn thelocknutbeforeitcontactedthehubsoIaddedthistothespecand set thewrenchfor30ftlbs.Justwantedtoconfirmthatthisiscorrectso thatIdon'tdamageanything....? Thanks, --MarkNavratil CedarRapids,Iowa RV-8AN2Dalmostreadyforfinalinspection... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2005
From: "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com>
Subject: Re: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports
There has been several other posts with good info but to add to it. When a private airport is reported to the FAA, the traffic pattern needs to be identified. This is then either responded to by the FAA as an objection or no objection. It goes on file in the FAA office as having a specific traffic pattern. The identifier is issued if it is "no objection" This is the airspace they consider to be protected. Weather they have any enforcement of that or not, - I doubt it. Tim -------Original Message------- From: H.Ivan Haecker Date: 11/28/05 19:23:25 Subject: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed (non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject are: 1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern? 2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart for private runways. 3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate (albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when you land!) Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything I am just interested. Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Subject: RV-6 kit for sale
Date: Nov 29, 2005
Fellow Listers: I am posting this for a friend (Larry Groom). If you are interested, please contact him directly. Thanks Doug Weiler pres, MN wing --------------------- ...I have the tail kit (horizontal stab, vertical stab and right elevator are complete) along with the pre-punched wing kit and prebuilt anodized spars.... Larry Groom 952-492-3922 lgroom(at)frontiernet.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 29, 2005
From: sportav8r(at)aol.com
Subject: Re: Hive mind sought on IFR training courses - OT
Thanks to eveeryone who took the time to respond, on and off-list. I'm sifting through the options and opinions now. Got my homework cut out for me, certainly. This list is GREAT! -Stormy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: "Becki" <becki@fly-gbi.com>
Subject: Fw: tie downs
I am forwarding this message for Terry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Allen Subject: tie downs Becky....I have been trying to track this guy. He is getting a lot of peoples money and not providing product. He even sent me an email that said he would send it in a week...just long enough so that PAYPAL would not cover the loss. I have posted on the VANS AIRFORCE forum that he is not providing the product and ripping people off....I tried to get it on this site however for some reason I cannot register. I have kept my email inquiries to Randy and no response...If you could please post to this list and let people know that they will not receive any product. There are many others who have been ripped off....sorry Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Telex TC200 Intercom Users Manual Needed
Does anyone have a copy of the manual for this portable intercom? Telex doesn't have it available any more and I can't find one on Google. Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV 8A For Sale
Date: Nov 30, 2005
I have a new RV 8A that's ready to go to the paintshop. If interested, help me select the color. Contact: rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: RV-8 kit for sale
I'll keep it short and sweet. I am only posting this on this list. Feel free to copy and cross post it if you will. Wick's aircraft is selling their partially completed RV8. I think the workmanship was pretty good on it, at least the last time I looked at it, it was. take a look here....... www.wicksaircraft.com/Wicks/Pages/Projects/RV8A_FOR_SALE.php If you talk with Scott Wick, mention my name, he said he would give me some credit in the store if it sold as a result of me... Phil in Litchfield, IL We are going to have an RV flyin here http://www.litchfieldil.com/airport/ next Spring or Summer. Be thinking about it. Suggestions appreciated on having a good 2 or 3 day flyin. Volunteers would also be needed and appreciated... We will probably get some financial help from the Airport Authority. If you are passing through, check out our fuel price and stop in.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
Subject: Just ordered my Wings!!
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Hi Guys, I just ordered my wings for my RV-9A. Here's a fun photo I made to celebrate the occasion: http://smittysrv.com/photos/OrderedTheWings.jpg Smitty http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
Date: Nov 30, 2005
> ----- Original Message ----- > From: Terry Allen > To: becki@fly-gbi.com > Subject: tie downs > > > Becky....I have been trying to track this guy. He is getting a lot > of peoples money and not providing product. He even sent me an > email that said he would send it in a week...just long enough so > that PAYPAL would not cover the loss. I have posted on the VANS > AIRFORCE forum that he is not providing the product and ripping > people off....I tried to get it on this site however for some > reason I cannot register. I have kept my email inquiries to Randy > and no response...If you could please post to this list and let > people know that they will not receive any product. There are many > others who have been ripped off....sorry > If he has genuiely taken people's money and not delivered the product when he said he would, then people should push PayPal harder. They have a dispute resolution process. Failing that, if the payment was made via a credit card, the credit card company may have a way to get your money back. If there are several people that have paid for the Ti-Downs, and not received them, and they have used all reasonable means to contact Randy Simpson, then I am prepared to put a notice on my web site warning people about the problem. My site ranks fairly high on Google, so I think it could be effective in warning some people to be careful. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
Kevin Horton wrote: > If there are several people that have paid for the Ti-Downs, and not > received them, and they have used all reasonable means to contact > Randy Simpson, then I am prepared to put a notice on my web site > warning people about the problem. My site ranks fairly high on > Google, so I think it could be effective in warning some people to be > careful. Kevin, I have pulled the Product Review of the Ti-Downs from my site. The review was formerly linked on Randy's site and he used the article as a primary source of advertising. But no more.......sad........ Sam Buchanan http://thervjournal.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think he can keep up with demand. His tie downs are a work of art, and they take several hours each to make. Paul Besing --- Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Terry Allen > > To: becki@fly-gbi.com > > Subject: tie downs > > > > > > Becky....I have been trying to track this guy. He > is getting a lot > > of peoples money and not providing product. He > even sent me an > > email that said he would send it in a week...just > long enough so > > that PAYPAL would not cover the loss. I have > posted on the VANS > > AIRFORCE forum that he is not providing the > product and ripping > > people off....I tried to get it on this site > however for some > > reason I cannot register. I have kept my email > inquiries to Randy > > and no response...If you could please post to this > list and let > > people know that they will not receive any > product. There are many > > others who have been ripped off....sorry > > > If he has genuiely taken people's money and not > delivered the product > when he said he would, then people should push > PayPal harder. They > have a dispute resolution process. Failing that, if > the payment was > made via a credit card, the credit card company may > have a way to get > your money back. > > If there are several people that have paid for the > Ti-Downs, and not > received them, and they have used all reasonable > means to contact > Randy Simpson, then I am prepared to put a notice on > my web site > warning people about the problem. My site ranks > fairly high on > Google, so I think it could be effective in warning > some people to be > careful. > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > __________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
>I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little >excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth >with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think >he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think >he can keep up with demand. His tie downs are a work >of art, and they take several hours each to make. Then he could easily make it known that the estimated delivery time is X period. If I knew it would take a month I could either not buy them or wait the required time. BTW I do have a set. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net>
Subject: Re: RV-8 kit for sale..... ooops RV8A
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote: > >I'll keep it short and sweet. I am only posting this on this list. Feel >free to copy and cross post it if you will. > >Wick's aircraft is selling their partially completed RV8. I think the >workmanship was pretty good on it, at least the last time I looked at >it, it was. > >take a look here....... >www.wicksaircraft.com/Wicks/Pages/Projects/RV8A_FOR_SALE.php > >If you talk with Scott Wick, mention my name, he said he would give me >some credit in the store if it sold as a result of me... > >Phil in Litchfield, IL > >We are going to have an RV flyin here > http://www.litchfieldil.com/airport/ next Spring or Summer. Be >thinking about it. Suggestions appreciated on having a good 2 or 3 day >flyin. Volunteers would also be needed and appreciated... We will >probably get some financial help from the Airport Authority. > >If you are passing through, check out our fuel price and stop in.... > > Actually it is an RV 8A......... > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Titanium Tie Downs
Date: Nov 30, 2005
Tooks lots of repeated e-mails and phone calls with no luck until one day I got a response from him and after 10 days I had them... They are very nice and they were worth the wait, but I too was afraid I had been taken.... Keep trying!! -Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Becki Subject: RV-List: Titanium Tie Downs Just wondered if anyone knows anything about Randy Simpson who sells the titanium tie downs. We've been trying to get him for a month now via phone and email. We've paid for our tie downs over a month ago through Pay Pal and no response and no tie downs. Sure would like to get some tie downs! Thanks for any help! Becki Orndorff ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dayton Murdock" <djmmfg(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
Date: Nov 30, 2005
Hi All Is it possible to get a image of what these tie downs look like? My shop can weld or machine titanium. Dayton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Fw: tie downs
Date: Nov 30, 2005
Mine took 3 monyhs to arrive. I left him a voice mail that said I was turning him in to pay pal as non responsive. He called me a week after that ans sent the tiedows about three week laterr. I think that he is just very disorganized. If you wait long enough you will get the product, proviving that Randy has not totally forgotten your order. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ron Lee Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: tie downs >I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little >excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth >with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think >he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think >he can keep up with demand. His tie downs are a work >of art, and they take several hours each to make. Then he could easily make it known that the estimated delivery time is X period. If I knew it would take a month I could either not buy them or wait the required time. BTW I do have a set. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 30, 2005
From: Chris W <1qazxsw23edcvfr45tgbnhy67ujm(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
Dayton Murdock wrote: > >Hi All > >Is it possible to get a image of what these tie downs look like? My shop can >weld or machine titanium. > > But can you bend it? That is how he makes them I believe. -- Chris W KE5GIX ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Hedrick" <khedrick(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Fw: tie downs
Date: Dec 01, 2005
If you are looking for a source for titanium tiedowns, headsets, GPS, etc I recommend Rob Rollison. http://www.airplanegear.com/ I have no financial ties to him or his co. I am just a satisfied customer. He is a regular at osh and Lakeland. When something becomes avail that I wanted, he calls me and asks if I still want it. He did that with terrain awareness add-on for my Lowrance 2000. he refunded my $$ when I sent my lightspeed headset back. I think that he also sells LSA aircraft and has a co. for untralight stuff too Illinois Keith Keith Hedrick 3LF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Becki Subject: RV-List: Fw: tie downs I am forwarding this message for Terry. ----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Allen Subject: tie downs Becky....I have been trying to track this guy. He is getting a lot of peoples money and not providing product. He even sent me an email that said he would send it in a week...just long enough so that PAYPAL would not cover the loss. I have posted on the VANS AIRFORCE forum that he is not providing the product and ripping people off....I tried to get it on this site however for some reason I cannot register. I have kept my email inquiries to Randy and no response...If you could please post to this list and let people know that they will not receive any product. There are many others who have been ripped off....sorry Terry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2005
From: "Bill Gunn" <WGUNN(at)dot.state.tx.us>
Subject: Traffic Patterns @ Private Airports
For open-to-the-public (public) airports, the airport authority needs to petition the FAA using form 7480-1. See A/C 70-2E (available on the AOPA web site). The FAA determines if this is safe relative to other traffic and will send a letter of "no objection" to the change if it is OK. And, as previously commented, traffic direction at public airports is in FAR 91.126 b (1) - left unless marked for right. BTW, airport ownership does not matter, public or private owned public use airports need to file. Also, a privately owned, private use airport that is active and is in class E or higher surface based airspace OR within 5 NM of a public use airport in any airspace should file with the FAA for traffic changes. Bill Gunn, Texas DOT Aviation Division RV 4 Subject: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports >From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com> >Subject: RV-List: Off -Topic: Traffic Patterns @ Private Aiports > >The following is not RV specific. Delete now if this offends you. > >The HOA at a residential airport where I have purchased property wants to keep >traffic on one side of the runway. So the pattern in one direction will be right-handed >(non-conventional). My question(s) to those knowledgeable on the subject >are: > >1) Does an HOA as the owner of an airport have control over a traffic pattern? > >2) Does any airport that is privately owned have such control? I see many open-to >the-public but privately owned airports with notations on Sectional charts >for right traffic on certain runways. I have yet to see this on a Sectional chart >for private runways. > >3) If a runway is uncontrolled, can't you fly any pattern you deem appropriate >(albeit at the risk of safety and the risk of irate people on the ground when >you land!) > >Curious minds want to know. I don't have a beef with anyone over anything. I am >just interested. > >Ivan Haecker -4 1209 hrs. S. Cen. TX > Hi Ivan- Those are good questions, and you got me to thinking about the fine print of the situation. So much so, that I looked up the relevant (and some not so relevant) references to see what guidance I could find. First, FAR 1.1 says that "Traffic Pattern means the traffic flow that is prescribed for aircraft landing at, taxiing on, or taking off from, an airport." Note there is no mention of who writes the prescription, limits on what kind of airport it applies to, and that it also includes ground movement. Next, WRT noise abatement, AIM 4-3-6 (b) states "Airport proprietors are responsible for taking the lead in local aviation noise control. Accordingly, they may propose specific noise abatement plans to the FAA. If approved, these plans are applied in the form of Formal or Informal Runway Use Programs for noise abatement purposes." Now, yes, I do realize that the AIM is not regulatory. There is some fine print to add to that concept, tho- First, the AIM is the considered opinion of the FAA. If you operate contrary to this opinion, then the feds are liable to consider you 'careless and reckless', their generic violation of FAR 91.13. The next caveat comes into play should you find yourself in a court room. It seems that there is a concept (I forget it's proper name) in law wherein an acknowledged expert in a given field can speak the gospel. In this scenario, the courts accept that the FAA is an acknowledged expert, and if they say you should operate in a certain manner, the court will go along with that. The bottom line is that in the cockpit the AIM is not regulatory, but once you get into a court room, it is. FAR 91.103 states"Each pilot in command shall, before beginning a flight, become familiar with all available information concerning that flight...", so lack of familiarity with the local traffic pattern is not acceptable, as long as that info is available. Also, FAR 91.126(b)(1) [Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class G airspace] states "Each pilot of an airplane must make all turns of that airplane to the left unless the airport displays approved light signals or visual markings indicating that turns should be made to the right, in which case the pilot must make all turns to the right..." As I read it, your airport proprietor in question can require right traffic, but that needs to be visibly displayed to inbound traffic. Then again, a private field doesn't need to comply with all the fed standards, hence the 'use at your own risk' notations. FAR 91.127 Operating on or in the vicinity of an airport in class E airspace says, in part, "....must comply with the requirements of para 91.126." So, as I read it all, the airport proprietor can mandate non standard patterns, but that information needs to be available to the pilot group. Once those requirements are met, compliance isn't optional. I hope that this was of some use to my fellow listers- Glen Matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2005
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
> >I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little >excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth >with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think >he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think >he can keep up with demand. He really fooled you!! I ordered tie downs in March 2003, after numerous emails etc, I have not recieved the tiedowns. At one point he said they would be in the mail next day. Now 18 months later, no tiedowns. He may be a nice guy, but he is a dishonest businessman, a Crook. He took my money and never provided the product. Regardless of his intentions or how nice he is at Oskkosh, he is an Internet Crook, Thief and not to be trusted. To anyone who would continue to defend him, please do so by getting him to refund the money or provide the product. For those with excess RV building funds, send it to the Randy Simpson get out of jail fund (but do not expect any tie downs in return). There are many RV related products that I can buy over the internet, but this experience has convinced me that it is best not to buy from these type of people. It is unfortunate that such a disreputable person as Randy Simpson can tarnish the business of otherwise honest businessmen and women. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Craig Payne" <cpayne(at)joimail.com>
Subject: Need Rivet Gun Set
Date: Dec 01, 2005
I'm looking for a serviceable 3X rivet gun set with regulator, .401" straight and offset shanks with bucking bars. Please respond off-list with details. Craig Payne cpayne(at)joimail.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Fw: tie downs
Date: Dec 01, 2005
Come on Bob, tell us how you really feel! BTW, he sent me my tie downs. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Subject: Re: RV-List: Fw: tie downs > >I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little >excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth >with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think >he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think >he can keep up with demand. He really fooled you!! I ordered tie downs in March 2003, after numerous emails etc, I have not recieved the tiedowns. At one point he said they would be in the mail next day. Now 18 months later, no tiedowns. He may be a nice guy, but he is a dishonest businessman, a Crook. He took my money and never provided the product. Regardless of his intentions or how nice he is at Oskkosh, he is an Internet Crook, Thief and not to be trusted. To anyone who would continue to defend him, please do so by getting him to refund the money or provide the product. For those with excess RV building funds, send it to the Randy Simpson get out of jail fund (but do not expect any tie downs in return). There are many RV related products that I can buy over the internet, but this experience has convinced me that it is best not to buy from these type of people. It is unfortunate that such a disreputable person as Randy Simpson can tarnish the business of otherwise honest businessmen and women. Bob RV6 NightFighter ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 01, 2005
From: Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
As others have said, I don't believe he is a crook. He is just a "free spirit" and totally disorganized. I ordered a set in Feb 04 and received them several months later (with a little prodding on my part), but I did receive them and they are a work of art! So he was definitely delivering them long after you placed your order. I can't understand why he operates the way he does, as he has an excellent product. Nonetheless, I can't in good faith recommend anyone order anything from him until (unless) he gets his act together. Dick Tasker Bob wrote: > > > > >>I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little >>excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth >>with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think >>he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think >>he can keep up with demand. >> >> > >He really fooled you!! > >I ordered tie downs in March 2003, after numerous emails etc, I have not >recieved the tiedowns. At one point he said they would be in the mail next >day. Now 18 months later, no tiedowns. > >He may be a nice guy, but he is a dishonest businessman, a Crook. He took >my money and never provided the product. Regardless of his intentions or >how nice he is at Oskkosh, he is an Internet Crook, Thief and not to be >trusted. > >To anyone who would continue to defend him, please do so by getting him to >refund the money or provide the product. > >For those with excess RV building funds, send it to the Randy Simpson get >out of jail fund (but do not expect any tie downs in return). > >There are many RV related products that I can buy over the internet, but >this experience has convinced me that it is best not to buy from these type >of people. It is unfortunate that such a disreputable person as Randy >Simpson can tarnish the business of otherwise honest businessmen and women. > > >Bob >RV6 NightFighter > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "lancenewman" <lancenewman(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Issues
Date: Dec 01, 2005
What ever a throttle is, he must mean a shut off flap controlled by a cable. Anyway, Ive tried all those fancy do- dads in my rv6 and the only thing that gets my temps up is preheating the engine on cold days to 70F and flying with the feed air to the oil cooler blocked completely. Even then, the highest temp I see is 190F on climb and 170F in cruise flight. You need at least a sustained 190F to boil out the moisture in the engine completely. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: Oil Cooler Issues > > > >> >> I see that Van's recently added an oil cooler vent to its >> fine stable of catalog accessories. http://tinyurl.com/cc2ay >> >> This suggests to me that my Lyc. equipped 6A is not alone in >> experiencing cooler than desired oil temps. During the >> summer, even with ground temps flirting with 100 degrees, my >> stock baffle mounted oil cooler installation stabilized the >> engine temperature at 170 degrees. >> > SNIP > >> I'm curious as to how prevalent the problem really is. >> Anybody else on this forum experience similiar cooling >> issues? After all, I know the new vent wasn't designed with >> just my particular RV in mind. >> >> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" > > Rick, > > I put a throttle in the 3" scat leading to my firewall mounted cooler in > my > O360 RV6A. I can control this with a knob on the panel. The only time I > see oil temps above about 190F is during a long climb in hot weather. > When > OAT's are in the -10 to 40F range, I throttle the cooling air. (I don't > fly > colder than -10F!) Anyway, when I don't throttle the oil cooler, temps > don't get above about 140 or less. Yesterday, I made use of the throttle > several times, as the ground temps were about 20F, while at altitude the > OAT > was around 45F. > > I can't speak to the effectiveness of Van's new kit, but some throttling > is > generally necessary for anyone flying in the winter. Most RVers here put > plates or tape on and off each season - yesterday was an example of how > big > a pain that can be. > > Alex Peterson > RV6-A N66AP 694 hours > Maple Grove, MN > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2005
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RE: tie downs
As a different point of view and acknowledgement that Paul's instincts are pretty good.... A few years ago when I lived in Portland (OR) and was attending a Homewing RV builders group meeting, Randy showed up with a bunch of tie downs peddling his wares. I looked at them, boy are they nice pieces and the best part, light light and....did I mention LIGHT. I didn't want to miss out but I didn't have the money on me at the time and mentioned it to Randy. He said (to a complete stranger he'd never met before) "no problem, here's my card send me a check". So....I went home, wrote a check and put it in the mail. Randy works for a big manufacturer of titanium and other aerospace metals in the Portland area and that's where he gets his raw material. The tie downs are basically titanium bars one quarter inch diameter bent into a helix with a triangle bent in the top to fasten the tie down rope to. He sells them polished for a few bucks extra, mine are unpolished and came in a nice canvas carry bag with some rope. No, I don't get paid for saying this and I'm NOT a relative of Randy's...but, I am a happy customer. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Installing the last of Van's FWF parts. ________________________________ Original Message ________________________ I just don't get it. Randy is a nice guy. A little excentric, but generally a nice guy. I shared a booth with him at Oshkosh a few years back. I don't think he is inentionally frauding people, I just don't think he can keep up with demand. His tie downs are a work of art, and they take several hours each to make. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2005
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: tie downs
Just guessing of course, but could it be that therein lies the source of the problem? Titanium ain't cheap, they don't give that stuff away. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" ........Randy works for a big manufacturer of titanium and other aerospace metals in the Portland area and that's where he gets his raw material. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Folding Bikes
Date: Dec 02, 2005
I just found this bike manufacturer on the internet. The prices are really low. Does anyone know whether that are any good or not? http://zportusa.com/ Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Kugler" <donkugler(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Items for sale
Date: Dec 02, 2005
It's time to clean house! The below items are for sale, leftovers from building my -8 which is now 400 hrs and 2 1/2 years flying. Contact me off list, make an offer, whatever. Regards, -Don RV8 - NJ Don Kugler donkugler(at)earthlink.net 908-303-6578 direct 1 Left RV 6/8 Elevator Skin .020, new, unused, still in box from Vans - $35.00 Vans P/N - E-601-L-020 - ELEVATOR SKIN LEFT - New $51.26 1 Fiberglass Rudder bottom w/o light, new, unused leftover from RV8 Kit - $30.00 Vans P/N - R-411W/O - FBRGLS RUD BOT W/O LT - New $45.45 2 Isspro 2" resistive-type fuel gauges, new, unused - $5.00 ea 1 Stewart Warner 8432 9-row Oil Cooler, used, pressure tested - $100 Removed from Beech Sierra IO-360 installation, New from ACS - $516 1 Ford 60A DOFF10300J (ACS PN 07-04616) Alternator - $100 35 hrs - Removed from Beech Sierra IO-360, New from ACS - $317 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Kugler" <donkugler(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: More items for sale
Date: Dec 02, 2005
Found more stuff.... Contact me off list, make an offer, whatever. Regards, -Don RV8 - NJ Don Kugler donkugler(at)earthlink.net 908-303-6578 direct 1 ELT Battery Pack - Artex ELT 110-4 Ordered in error amd forgot to return. Good till June 2007. - $20 Cost $37.25 from ACS. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2005
From: Geoff Evans <hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV8 Wheel Fairing / Brake Caliper Interference
I mounted and aligned my wheel fairings with the brake calipers removed because it was easier to access that way. I have the required 1" above the tire, and the pants are aligned in all of the axes. However, when I install the brake calipers, the lower edges of the calipers and the bleed nipples interfere with the fairings. I triple checked the installation of the axels and caliper mounting brackets -- they look correct and they match photographs of other people's RV-8s. I called Vans and they said they had never heard of this problem. A search of the archives reveals one instance of this about five years ago, but no real solutions or further information. Anybody have any ideas? I have the new (epoxy, not gel coat) fairings. Thanks. -Geoff RV-8 Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: WFACT01(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 02, 2005
Subject: Re: RV8 Wheel Fairing / Brake Caliper Interference
geoff- i had the same problem--tom TOM WHELAN 249 HARDHILL RD NORTH BETHLEHEM CT. 06751 WFACT01(at)AOL.COM TEL-203-2665300 FAX 203 266-5140 AIRPORT-CT01-----122.725 RV-8-SP-IO-540-350+HP---62HRS S-51-MUSTANG-TURBINE F-24 FAIRCHILD ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: RV8 Wheel Fairing / Brake Caliper Interference
Date: Dec 02, 2005
Same here. Cut as needed: http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2005/05/wheel_pants.html - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com > -----Original Message----- > From: Geoff Evans [mailto:hellothaimassage(at)yahoo.com] > Sent: Friday, December 02, 2005 8:16 PM > To: RV List > Subject: RV-List: RV8 Wheel Fairing / Brake Caliper Interference > > > > I mounted and aligned my wheel fairings with the brake > calipers removed because it was easier to access that way. I > have the required 1" above the tire, and the pants are > aligned in all of the axes. > > However, when I install the brake calipers, the lower edges > of the calipers and the bleed nipples interfere with the > fairings. I triple checked the installation of the axels and > caliper mounting brackets -- they look correct and they match > photographs of other people's RV-8s. > > I called Vans and they said they had never heard of this > problem. A search of the archives reveals one instance of > this about five years ago, but no real solutions or further > information. > > Anybody have any ideas? I have the new (epoxy, not gel coat) fairings. > > Thanks. > -Geoff > RV-8 > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. > dsl.yahoo.com > > > Photoshare, and much much more: > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 02, 2005
From: sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: dzus fastener questions
I am trying to puzzle out the Dzus fasteners from the information in the Aircraft Spruce catalog. They don't seem to indicate how the springs are fastened to the panel. The drawing shows some sort of rivet-like fastener, but there's no other information about it. Can anyone tell me what this is? Also, does use of the full grommet make the stud captive or not? The "half grommets" apparently capture the stud, which I don't want in my application. Are the full grommets suitable for installation in fiberglass? Thanks, -- Tom Sargent, RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RV8 Wheel Fairing / Brake Caliper Interference
Date: Dec 03, 2005
I had the same problem because I have the grove landing gear which is thicker than Van's stock gear. I cut a hole where the problem area was and make blisters or bumps on the pants out of fiberglass to allow clearance. Steve Glasgow-Cappy N123SG RV-8 Cappy's Toy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2005
From: Richard Lundin <rlundin46(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: heated pitot tube, and pnuematic squeezer for sale
I have changed projects so I can fly sport pilot catergory and have a heated 12v pitot tube, and a pneumatic squeezer listed on ebay for sale. The item numbers are below. Best to all, Rick Pitot Tube, Heated Item #4593874350 Pneumatic rivet squeezer (#4593879112) Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2005
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes
From the info I got this is the conclusion I came to. I first wanted a bike just like these but talked myself out of them, even though I am a cheapskate. Just for illustration and no offense meant, but have you ever seen a clown on a little bike at the circus? That is what comes to mind. I like the price but be ready to pay a lot more for a serious folding bike. Also you get what you pay for comes to mind. If you plan on doing some serious riding, touring it is totally unacceptable. If you just want something to peddle down the tarmac to get to the FBO the zportusa may be fine. From a size standpoint the small wheel zportusa models it looks like it will fit in the back of a RV-6/7/9, but a little heavy. The 20" are just a tad too big and they are also heavy at 35lbs. The mid/high priced Dahon's or a Bike Friday or Brompton are top on the list. I think the Brompton may be a slight fit problem folded, but not sure. Also if you want to do real riding shoot for 20". Many riders tell me the 16" wheel is marginal for real touring/sight seeing. George From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> Subject: RV-List: Folding Bikes I just found this bike manufacturer on the internet. The prices are really low. Does anyone know whether that are any good or not? http://zportusa.com/ Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Pellien" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: Re: Folding Bikes
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Has anybody on the list ever rode one of these cheap folding bikes from www.zportusa.com I'd like to hear a first person review of their experience. Some of these folding bicycles from Brompton and Dahon and others are over $1000 each, whereas this one from zport is $175 including shipping. A significant difference. But I have not heard any first person accounts of the zport equipment yet. I'm thinking about buying one just to look at it, but before I do that, I'd like to hear from a person who has one. Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes The Mid-Atlantic Region of SportsPlanes.com www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com Subject: RV-List: Re: Folding Bikes >From the info I got this is the conclusion I came to. I first wanted a bike just like these but talked myself out of them, even though I am a cheapskate. Just for illustration and no offense meant, but have you ever seen a clown on a little bike at the circus? That is what comes to mind. I like the price but be ready to pay a lot more for a serious folding bike. Also you get what you pay for comes to mind. If you plan on doing some serious riding, touring it is totally unacceptable. If you just want something to peddle down the tarmac to get to the FBO the zportusa may be fine. From a size standpoint the small wheel zportusa models it looks like it will fit in the back of a RV-6/7/9, but a little heavy. The 20" are just a tad too big and they are also heavy at 35lbs. The mid/high priced Dahon's or a Bike Friday or Brompton are top on the list. I think the Brompton may be a slight fit problem folded, but not sure. Also if you want to do real riding shoot for 20". Many riders tell me the 16" wheel is marginal for real touring/sight seeing. George From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com> Subject: RV-List: Folding Bikes I just found this bike manufacturer on the internet. The prices are really low. Does anyone know whether that are any good or not? http://zportusa.com/ Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Subject: [ John L. Danielson ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: John L. Danielson Lists: RV-List,RV6-List Subject: Easy way to help cowl removal http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/johnd@wlcwyo.com.12.03.2005/index.html o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Don Kugler" <donkugler(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Magnetic Compass for sale
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Found more stuff.... Contact me off list, make an offer, whatever. Regards, -Don RV8 - NJ Don Kugler donkugler(at)earthlink.net 908-303-6578 direct 1 Compass, 2 1/4" Panel Mount Northern Hemisphere. New - $50 Van's P/N IF CM-13L $75.00 in Van's Catalog ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Well, the big day finally got here. This morning at 9:35 AM, N842S "slipped the surly bonds" and soared into the crisp (34 F) morning air above Creve Coeur Airport, 1HO. (St. Louis Area) All went according to plan with no surprises. She flies straight as an arrow and will require no aileron or rudder trimming or re-rigging. What a Day! For those to follow, just keep pressing on. You will get there, and it well be so worth the effort. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO .8 Hours! No not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2005
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: First flight
Congratulations Steve! Today was not exactly a warm CAVU day around the area but that really didn't matter did it? YOU DID IT! What a feeling. I'm just a few RV minutes away, based at Greensfield. Chalk up another RV joining the St. Louis Mo. wing of the VAF. Congratulations again buddy. Fly safe. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" Well, the big day finally got here. This morning at 9:35 AM, N842S "slipped the surly bonds" and soared into the crisp (34 F) morning air above Creve Coeur Airport, 1HO. (St. Louis Area) All went according to plan with no surprises. She flies straight as an arrow and will require no aileron or rudder trimming or re-rigging. What a Day! For those to follow, just keep pressing on. You will get there, and it well be so worth the effort. Steve Struyk RV-8, N842S St. Charles, MO .8 Hours! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
Date: Dec 03, 2005
I've put an article up on my web site describing the problems that some people have had with Randy Simpson, to warn other potential purchasers. http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/article.php?story=Beware_Randy_Simpson I've quoted a few messages from this list, with the authors' permission. If anyone else wants to put their oar in the water, you can e-mail me your comments, or put a comment on the article on the web page. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Callender" <tcallender(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: RV9-List: status report 90616
Date: Dec 03, 2005
From: kerrjohna(at)comcast.net >December 22 saw the successful completion of the > airworthiness inspection of N927BJ (90616) RV9. I > am told that there are only about dozen conventional > gear 9's. Way to go John, Congrats:-) I am building a 9 ( N793JT reserved ). Tom C ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: First Flight
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Congrats Steve, Still working on my fuselage, will attach wings next month. Maybe another year to go, can't wait. Good flying, Paul RV8QB ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RV-List: First Flight > > Well, the big day finally got here. This morning at 9:35 AM, N842S > "slipped the surly bonds" and soared into the crisp (34 F) morning air > above Creve Coeur Airport, 1HO. (St. Louis Area) All went according to > plan with no surprises. She flies straight as an arrow and will require no > aileron or rudder trimming or re-rigging. What a Day! > > For those to follow, just keep pressing on. You will get there, and it > well be so worth the effort. > > > Steve Struyk > RV-8, N842S > St. Charles, MO .8 Hours! > > No not archive > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 03, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
RV list
Subject: -7 aileron belcrank bushings
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Just spent some time perusing old messages about bellcrank bushing problems & got a few answers but still have some questions. The bushings I got will slide into the bellcranks fairly easily until they hit the point where the 2nd flange is welded, about 1/3 of the way down from the top of the tube. Either bushing into either bellcrank, same symptom. A 3/8 drill bit will slide through the bellcrank tube without binding; actually, it's fairly loose. In addition, neither bushing will accept an AN4 bolt shaft. The threads will go in with slight binding, but any attempt to go further results in the plating being scraped off the bolt at the thread-shaft transition point. (I've used the deburring tool on the ends of the bushings; no help.) Is everyone having to ream both the bellcrank tube & the bushing? I suppose that I can turn the bushing OD down without too much trouble but trying to drill it to 1/4"+ for the bolt, without a lathe, doesn't strike me as fun. Charlie (feeling like I paid for parts that should fit) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: -7 aileron belcrank bushings INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000
-4.4912
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Charlie I used a 1/4 inch ream on my bushings and they came out great. I had no problem with the bell crank bushing hole aliagnment. Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: "rv7-list(at)matronics.com" , RV list > >Subject: RV-List: -7 aileron belcrank bushings INNOCENT GLOBAL >0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 >Date: Sat, 03 Dec 2005 20:31:53 -0600 > > >Just spent some time perusing old messages about bellcrank bushing >problems & got a few answers but still have some questions. > >The bushings I got will slide into the bellcranks fairly easily until >they hit the point where the 2nd flange is welded, about 1/3 of the way >down from the top of the tube. Either bushing into either bellcrank, >same symptom. A 3/8 drill bit will slide through the bellcrank tube >without binding; actually, it's fairly loose. > >In addition, neither bushing will accept an AN4 bolt shaft. The threads >will go in with slight binding, but any attempt to go further results in >the plating being scraped off the bolt at the thread-shaft transition >point. (I've used the deburring tool on the ends of the bushings; no help.) > >Is everyone having to ream both the bellcrank tube & the bushing? I >suppose that I can turn the bushing OD down without too much trouble but >trying to drill it to 1/4"+ for the bolt, without a lathe, doesn't >strike me as fun. > >Charlie >(feeling like I paid for parts that should fit) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: -7 aileron belcrank bushings INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Charlie, As I recall I had to ream the Bellcrank. It appears that when the assembly is welded the areas around the welds on the inside of the tube expands somewhat. As for the bolts going through the bushing I don't recall having any problem with that. Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9 N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes Just spent some time perusing old messages about bellcrank bushing problems & got a few answers but still have some questions. The bushings I got will slide into the bellcranks fairly easily until they hit the point where the 2nd flange is welded, about 1/3 of the way down from the top of the tube. Either bushing into either bellcrank, same symptom. A 3/8 drill bit will slide through the bellcrank tube without binding; actually, it's fairly loose. In addition, neither bushing will accept an AN4 bolt shaft. The threads will go in with slight binding, but any attempt to go further results in the plating being scraped off the bolt at the thread-shaft transition point. (I've used the deburring tool on the ends of the bushings; no help.) Is everyone having to ream both the bellcrank tube & the bushing? I suppose that I can turn the bushing OD down without too much trouble but trying to drill it to 1/4"+ for the bolt, without a lathe, doesn't strike me as fun. Charlie (feeling like I paid for parts that should fit) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: -7 aileron belcrank bushings INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912
Date: Dec 03, 2005
Hi Charlie, The welding process can and does cause some amount disstortion. It does seem that the parts in question should have been reamed to final fit size....? However, you might consider going to a machine shop and asking them to run an adjustable reamer through The bellcranks enough to get the correct fit for the bushing. Only remove enough material to allow a comfortable slide fit. Avoid removing material from the bushing as doing so will contribute somewhat to loosness or play in the control system. Running the reamer through the bellcranks will remove the tight spot without removing any excess. Using the reamer will not take very long and the labour cost should be minimal. Hopefully you have a machine shop or better yet a friend nearby that can provide the service for you. Keep going, Jim in Kelowna -- the fuse is in the paint shop ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> Subject: RV-List: -7 aileron belcrank bushings INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 > > Just spent some time perusing old messages about bellcrank bushing > problems & got a few answers but still have some questions. > > The bushings I got will slide into the bellcranks fairly easily until > they hit the point where the 2nd flange is welded, about 1/3 of the way > down from the top of the tube. Either bushing into either bellcrank, > same symptom. A 3/8 drill bit will slide through the bellcrank tube > without binding; actually, it's fairly loose. > > In addition, neither bushing will accept an AN4 bolt shaft. The threads > will go in with slight binding, but any attempt to go further results in > the plating being scraped off the bolt at the thread-shaft transition > point. (I've used the deburring tool on the ends of the bushings; no > help.) > > Is everyone having to ream both the bellcrank tube & the bushing? I > suppose that I can turn the bushing OD down without too much trouble but > trying to drill it to 1/4"+ for the bolt, without a lathe, doesn't > strike me as fun. > > Charlie > (feeling like I paid for parts that should fit) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: First Flight
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Dec 03, 2005
:) Way cool ... Congrats ... g > > > Well, the big day finally got here. This morning at 9:35 AM, > N842S "slipped the surly bonds" and soared into the crisp (34 > F) morning air above Creve Coeur Airport, 1HO. (St. Louis Area) > All went according to plan with no surprises. She flies > straight as an arrow and will require no aileron or rudder > trimming or re-rigging. What a Day! > > For those to follow, just keep pressing on. You will get there, > and it well be so worth the effort. > > > Steve Struyk > RV-8, N842S > St. Charles, MO .8 Hours! > > No not archive > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: rv6n6r(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Fw: tie downs
Date: Dec 04, 2005
>Got a question: > >Doesn't anyone on this list know Randy Simpson personally, and is willing to >talk to him over a beer or so to find out what really happened here??? >Just a thought. Seems to me we all know what happened, or should by now. Randy is disorganized and can be slow getting his product out. People who know him know he's not a crook, makes good product when he gets around to it, and is a lousy businessman. How about we stop beating this horse? Randall ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Leesafur(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2005
Subject: VANS ALTERNATOR WEIGHTS
Does anybody know the weights of the alternators that vans sells? I search the archives but didn't find anything. Thanks Lee RV-3 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jimmy Hill" <jimmy(at)jhill.biz>
Subject: Re: Magnetic Compass for sale
Date: Dec 04, 2005
Whoops, sorry, I had not seen all your message. You have already given all the info. I will look at my panel again and see if I have room for it. Thanks. Jimmy ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don Kugler" <donkugler(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RV-List: Magnetic Compass for sale > > Found more stuff.... > > Contact me off list, make an offer, whatever. > > Regards, > > -Don > RV8 - NJ > > Don Kugler > donkugler(at)earthlink.net > 908-303-6578 direct > > 1 Compass, 2 1/4" Panel Mount Northern Hemisphere. New - $50 > Van's P/N IF CM-13L $75.00 in Van's Catalog > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: First Flight
Date: Dec 04, 2005
Steve, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com> >Subject: RV-List: First Flight >Date: Sat, 3 Dec 2005 17:40:27 -0600 >> >Well, the big day finally got here. This morning at 9:35 AM, N842S "slipped >the surly bonds" and soared into the crisp (34 F) morning air above Creve >Coeur Airport, 1HO. (St. Louis Area) All went according to plan with no >surprises. She flies straight as an arrow and will require no aileron or >rudder trimming or re-rigging. What a Day! >Steve Struyk >RV-8, N842S ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: VANS ALTERNATOR WEIGHTS
Date: Dec 04, 2005
My 35 amp Van's alternator: Weight with 3 mounting bolts 7lb 2oz Mounting brackets weigh 14oz the way I built them with a link to the starter. Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2005
From: bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Subject: Re: First Flight
Quoting Gerry Filby : > > > :) Way cool ... > > Congrats ... > > g > > > > > > > Well, the big day finally got here. This morning at 9:35 AM, > > N842S "slipped the surly bonds" and soared into the crisp (34 > > F) morning air above Creve Coeur Airport, 1HO. (St. Louis Area) > > All went according to plan with no surprises. She flies > > straight as an arrow and will require no aileron or rudder > > trimming or re-rigging. What a Day! > > > > For those to follow, just keep pressing on. You will get there, > > and it well be so worth the effort. > > > > > > Steve Struyk > > RV-8, N842S > > St. Charles, MO .8 Hours! > > > > No not archive > > > > > > Steve CONGRATULATIONS'''' I KNOW THE FEELING > > >BERT > > > -- > __g__ > > ========================================================= > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > Tel: 415 203 9177 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Source for NAS6200 bolts ?
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Dec 04, 2005
1.66 HELO_DYNAMIC_DHCP Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (DHCP) 1.28 HELO_DYNAMIC_HCC Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (HCC) 1.36 HELO_DYNAMIC_IPADDR Relay HELO'd using suspicious hostname (IP addr 1) Anyone know where I can acquire NAS6200 close tolerance bolts with the X and Y oversize designation ? Yup, I bungled a hole :-| __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com Tel: 415 203 9177 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2005
From: G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Star Washers Question
Star type lock washers have either internal or external teeth. Aircraft engine acessories use the internal teeth type lock washers while the hardware store variety generally have external teeth. My question is this, is there any technical difference in their locking capabilities? George in Langley BC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 04, 2005
Subject: Re: Star Washers Question
In a message dated 12/4/2005 12:27:28 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca writes: Star type lock washers have either internal or external teeth. Aircraft engine accessories use the internal teeth type lock washers while the hardware store variety generally have external teeth. My question is this, is there any technical difference in their locking capabilities? ======================================= George- Actually, there are some that have both internal and external teeth on the same washer. My experience with star washers would suggest the following. Internal teeth seem to be better at providing mechanical locking and maintaining the preload of the bolted joint, as these teeth are actually under the nut's bearing surface and benefit from the full locking torque applied to the bolted joint. These teeth actually get somewhat flattened out in the tightening of the fastener. External teeth seem to be better at cutting thru surface treatments (paint and such) to establish and maintain a good electrical connection. These teeth are often outside of the area of compression and teeth remain in a higher pitch state. This would do little to maintain the mechanical integrity of a bolted joint. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 771hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Freezing brakes
Date: Dec 04, 2005
I am flying in my 5th winter with my 6A in Minnesota, and have had frozen brakes frequently. If I taxi through any loose powder or even just a dusting, I can expect a clunk when I touch down after that flight. Obviously, the cause is from snow finding its way onto the brakes and melting during taxi, and subsequently freezing after takeoff. I've tried taxiing with NO brake usage, which is an interesting challenge in itself, but no help. I believe that the tires have enough internal friction to heat stuff up without any braking action. The brakes are not dragging, and the wheels turn freely. I thought today about beginning the takeoff roll with the brakes dragging to heat them just prior to take off, in an attempt to dry them out. BTW, I got about 600 landings out of the first set of brake pads, in case you might think I drag them unknowingly while taxiing (maybe that is what I need to do?). Landings can get interesting with one or both wheels locked, and today one tire landed on pavement while the other was on hard pack snow. It is a little unnerving to have to apply a bunch of rudder immediately at touchdown! (I would think it would be even more fun in a taildragger.) In one landing today, I dragged the left main for quite a while before it broke free, owing partly to less than ideal runway conditions and partly to the fact that it happened to be a greaser landing. I wonder if there is some aerodynamic subtlety to my gear fairings which causes snow to be drawn up inside the wheel fairings. I do notice that black tire dust comes out of the top of the gear and gets on the belly. Do others see this black dust up there? What are other's snow and winter experience? (no cracks needed from the SCAL group about moving away from the snow!) Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 696 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 04, 2005
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Alternator Weight's (Reliability of alternators Van
is selling) About 7.3 lbs for the 60 amp. If you are worried about weight go with the smaller industrial ND alternators like Niagara Air Parts sells. They weigh about 6.1 lbs and the brackets are going to more compact (lighter). The Niagara kit has everything for $275. Also most important, Niagara supplies only NEW genuine ND alternator, not a rebuilt alternator with aftermarket brand replacement parts (like Van sells). The Niagara / Nippondenso (ND) alternator is rated at 40 amps, but if you rated it like Van, it would be a 45 amp alternator. Not sure why Van calls his alternator is 60 amps, it's a 55 amp alternator at 5000 rpm. Alternators do tend to make more power at higher RPM's, but the standard rating is at 5000 rpm. The quality control of Van's supplier, where he buys rebuilt alternators is a little questionable. ND alternators are VERY reliable, but there have been many "events" with rebuilt alternators from Van, like: DOA, fails in hours of use, voltage regulator starts to act odd (unstable voltage control) and a few other things. In 15 years of using ND alternators (in both cars and planes), I have never had a problem and have 1000's of combined hours on them. However these are all genuine ND alternators, not rebuilds. Reading and talking to other builders it seems there is a disproportionate number of problems with the ND alternators Van sells. In fact of the 4-5 problems I know of, every one came from Van. Where Niagara has never had a return or complaint in 8 years. If a rebuild is done well, with all serviceable parts replaced, with best quality parts (even aftermarket just good aftermarket), inspected, assembled and tested with care, they can be OK. However the quality of many rebuilds are suspect. Go to automotive message boards and read about all the people who buy rebuilt alternators for there car and complain about how long they last, not long. A new ND alternator (brand new original ND) is much better than a rebuild in my opinion, if you can get them. Unfortunately the Suzuki Samurai NipponDenso alternator Van sells can not be bought new from ND. So you have to pick your supplier carefully. George >From: Leesafur(at)aol.com >Date: Dec 04, 2005 >Subject: VANS ALTERNATOR WEIGHTS >Does anybody know the weights of the alternators that vans sells? >I search the archives but didn't find anything. >Thanks Lee >RV-3 --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Freezing brakes
Date: Dec 05, 2005
Alex, From up in not-quite-frozen-yet Vermont I have to offer that I have had the same problem from time to time. I try to stay off the brakes while landing so as to keep them cool. As a practical matter, it means rolling out to the very end of the runway after landing and using the rudder (as you describe below) to maintain directional control as much as possible. I don't recall ever heating them up too much while just taxiing. I do recall a thread about brake return springs on some of Van's older brakes being too short. That might cause the brakes to drag even when your feet are off them. I don't see brake dust on the tops of my wheel pants. That's a new one. Steve Soule N227RV RV-6A -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Peterson Subject: RV-List: Freezing brakes --> I am flying in my 5th winter with my 6A in Minnesota, ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Freezing brakes
Date: Dec 05, 2005
> I don't see brake dust on the tops of my wheel pants. That's > a new one. Steve, It is not brake dust, it is tire dust. I noticed a big reduction in the amount of it when I changed to a different tire brand. The black dust finds its way up the gear leg and comes out through the gaps in the fuse/gear fairing intersection fairing. I only bring it up here in case my setup is somehow "pumping" snow dust up into the wheel fairings differently from others. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 696 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Subject: Freezing brakes
Date: Dec 05, 2005
Alex, I do get that dust and just where you notice it. I believe you're right about the mechanism. Steve -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alex Peterson Subject: RE: RV-List: Freezing brakes --> > I don't see brake dust on the tops of my wheel pants. That's > a new one. Steve, It is not brake dust, it is tire dust. I noticed a big reduction in the amount of it when I changed to a different tire brand. The black dust finds its way up the gear leg and comes out through the gaps in the fuse/gear fairing intersection fairing. I only bring it up here in case my setup is somehow "pumping" snow dust up into the wheel fairings differently from others. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 696 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "bob rundle" <bobrundle2(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Avionics, ACU, etc
Date: Dec 05, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 I'm trying to decide what exactly I need in terms of an ACU (Annunciation Control Unit) for my setup. My avionics are: GNS430 GNC300XL GMA340 GI106A GTX327 Right now I only only a single GI106A. When this is connected to the G430, I understand the G430 can select between GPS input and NAV input. i.e. it has a built in ACU. What about the 300XL? I too can be connected to a GI106A and display GPS track information. But for this to occur you need to have an external ACU to select between GPS/NAV, as well as ARM and ACTV the approach for non-precision approaches. So what if I only have 1 GI106A? Do I still need this ACU? The G430 will change it without the need for an ACU. Right now I;m considering getting a second GI106A and the ACU to hook up to the G300XL. Would this be the best solution? As well I presume since I'll be only be doing non-precision appracohes with the 300XL then I only need the GI102A, not the 106A (glideslope indication as well). Can someone clarify this for me? Thank you BobR ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Just ordered my Ti-Downs in Stock
Hi Group, I just ordered my Ti-Downs from Rob. Yes, Randy made them and they are the 5 loop with the bag, ropes and all. Darrell rv6n6r(at)comcast.net wrote: >Got a question: > >Doesn't anyone on this list know Randy Simpson personally, and is willing to >talk to him over a beer or so to find out what really happened here??? >Just a thought. Seems to me we all know what happened, or should by now. Randy is disorganized and can be slow getting his product out. People who know him know he's not a crook, makes good product when he gets around to it, and is a lousy businessman. How about we stop beating this horse? Randall --------------------------------- Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Alternator Weight's (Reliability of alternators
Van is selling) Airtech sells a new ND alternator kit for Lycomings with bolts, brackets and all for $199.95. I bought one, very nice kit, excellent service!!! Darrell gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote: About 7.3 lbs for the 60 amp. If you are worried about weight go with the smaller industrial ND alternators like Niagara Air Parts sells. They weigh about 6.1 lbs and the brackets are going to more compact (lighter). The Niagara kit has everything for $275. Also most important, Niagara supplies only NEW genuine ND alternator, not a rebuilt alternator with aftermarket brand replacement parts (like Van sells). The Niagara / Nippondenso (ND) alternator is rated at 40 amps, but if you rated it like Van, it would be a 45 amp alternator. Not sure why Van calls his alternator is 60 amps, it's a 55 amp alternator at 5000 rpm. Alternators do tend to make more power at higher RPM's, but the standard rating is at 5000 rpm. The quality control of Van's supplier, where he buys rebuilt alternators is a little questionable. ND alternators are VERY reliable, but there have been many "events" with rebuilt alternators from Van, like: DOA, fails in hours of use, voltage regulator starts to act odd (unstable voltage control) and a few other things. In 15 years of using ND alternators (in both cars and planes), I have never had a problem and have 1000's of combined hours on them. However these are all genuine ND alternators, not rebuilds. Reading and talking to other builders it seems there is a disproportionate number of problems with the ND alternators Van sells. In fact of the 4-5 problems I know of, every one came from Van. Where Niagara has never had a return or complaint in 8 years. If a rebuild is done well, with all serviceable parts replaced, with best quality parts (even aftermarket just good aftermarket), inspected, assembled and tested with care, they can be OK. However the quality of many rebuilds are suspect. Go to automotive message boards and read about all the people who buy rebuilt alternators for there car and complain about how long they last, not long. A new ND alternator (brand new original ND) is much better than a rebuild in my opinion, if you can get them. Unfortunately the Suzuki Samurai NipponDenso alternator Van sells can not be bought new from ND. So you have to pick your supplier carefully. George >From: Leesafur(at)aol.com >Date: Dec 04, 2005 >Subject: VANS ALTERNATOR WEIGHTS >Does anybody know the weights of the alternators that vans sells? >I search the archives but didn't find anything. >Thanks Lee >RV-3 --------------------------------- Darrell RV7A - 622DR Reserved --------------------------------- Single? There's someone we'd like you to meet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Van's Alternator Weight's (Reliability of alternators
Van is selling)
Date: Dec 05, 2005
How about a web site for Airtech? I get no joy on google Denis Walsh On Dec 5, 2005, at 9:27 AM, Darrell Reiley wrote: > > > Airtech sells a new ND alternator kit for Lycomings with bolts, > brackets and all for $199.95. I bought one, very nice kit, > excellent service!!! > > Darrell > > gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: Just ordered my Ti-Downs in Stock
Date: Dec 05, 2005
<< I just ordered my Ti-Downs from Rob. Yes, Randy made them and they are the 5 loop with the bag, ropes and all. Darrell >> I must have missed something, who's Rob? I really want a set of Randy's tie downs so if there is a way to get them, other than throwing some money in the ring and hoping for the best, I'd sure like to know about it. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 161 hours and down for painting. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
From: Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Cream colored bottom.
Mike, try using TCP and see if it stops happening. My guess is that for some strange reason lead is not being scavenged as well in one side of your exhaust, but is in the other. Temperatures too low maybe to effectively scavenge lead? I wouldn't be too concerned about it, unless you were fouling plugs, or had too much lead in your oil. I only see the lead deposits in the last 3-4" of my exhaust pipes...if I look further up inside I see the normal sooty stuff. I imagine it has something to do with the temperature of the pipes which causes the lead deposits on the coolest part of the exhaust system. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. (perpetually) On 12/5/05, Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) wrote: > > mstewart(at)iss.net> > > What is the cream stuff exactly? Burnt lead? > > Do I need to be concerned? > > Do something? Do nothing? > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: VNY FSDO weirdness
Date: Dec 05, 2005
Howdy folks, We've applied at the VNY FSDO for a new set of operating limitations based on the latest version being offered by the FAA so that we can equip and operate our RV-6a as an IFR aircraft. I had an appointment to pick up our amended oplims today, but the inspector just called to tell me that experimental aircraft are not allowed at VNY, BUR and WHP (where we're based) and some other airports as well. I objected to this vehemently and requested that he show me chapter and verse in the regulations where it says that they have any authority to prohibit certain types of aircraft from specific airports. He said he'd do some research and get back to me, but canceled our appointment for this afternoon. I had heard that VNY FSDO had tried this tack in the past, but thought they had been shown the light. Has anybody else run into this kind of bull? How did it shake out? Pax, Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Cream colored bottom.
>And Bob J, what is TCP? TCP is a fuel additive that is supposed to help minimize lead fouling. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Received Ti-Downs TODAY
WOW... that was lightning fast. I ordered my Ti-Downs on Friday 12/02/2005. I received them today Monday 12/05/2005, and there was a weekend in there too. Everyone is correct in that they are beautiful!! Darrell RV7A - 622DR Reserved --------------------------------- Let fate take it's course directly to your email. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
Subject: Re: VNY FSDO weirdness
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Ed , Did you say out to lunch? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: VNY FSDO weirdness
Date: Dec 05, 2005
Oh - I hope not. :-) I did get a cal back from the EAA guy. He thinks that perhaps the FAA guy is confusing first flight/flight test restrictions with normal operations and will relent when this is straightened out. He was going to call the inspector to try and resolve it. No call back from either party yet. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James H Nelson Subject: Re: RV-List: VNY FSDO weirdness Ed , Did you say out to lunch? Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: VNY FSDO weirdness
Date: Dec 05, 2005
OK - here's the latest. The FAA airworthiness inspector called me back. It seems that we did not communicate well this morning or at our previous meeting. The issue appears to be the flight test area and corridor to get to it and back, not where the aircraft is based. He said that he is ready to issue the oplims as soon as a flight test area can be defined to his boss's satisfaction. This is the area in which the aircraft will have to be flown if and when it is returned to Phase I operations after a major alteration. Following 5 hours in the test area and a logbook entry, the aircraft can be returned to Phase II operations. He was reading the boundaries of the flight test area as it was defined in our original oplims in '98 and thinking that I was asking for the same area verbatim. I had told him that I would accept any reasonable test area and that it doesn't have to be the same as the original. Since '98 they have redefined most of that area including WHP as densely populated. He says we'll have this worked out within a few days. Hope so. Pax, Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
Subject: GPS 296/395
Date: Dec 05, 2005
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0063 1.0000 -4.3997 NO!NO!NO It is a big scam. Trust me. Look at the feedback. All from sellers, not buyers. These guys are in Romania. Even the guy they give for reference doesNOT work for Ebay. I checked it out. When I first looked there wer 8 or 10 of these. After Ebay investigated, there was one. Also notice, the email address chandes a lot. AND there is NO way to get the money back. Thats why they use Western Union. Like they say, "if its too good to be true......." Al Grajek ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Charrois <danlist(at)syz.com>
Subject: Priming/painting piano hinges?
Date: Dec 05, 2005
Hi everyone. Just a quick question. For those who prime most everything before assembling, do you prime piano hinges as well? And/or for those who paint their aircraft, do the hinges get painted? Or should they be masked before painting the plane, and skipped in priming? I don't have my packing list handy at the moment, so I don't know if the hinge is stainless steel or otherwise already fairly impervious to corrosion. In any case, if everything else is being primed/ painted, I'd be tempted to be consistent, except for the concern that primer and/or paint would get into the hinge itself, stiffening its travel... Any suggestions? Thanks.. Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Priming/painting piano hinges?
Date: Dec 05, 2005
I have painted several hinges without a problem. Keep the grease in the hinge pin to a minimum and be sure to clean the outside surfaces good to keep the paint from chipping off. You will get some paint chipping on the hinge anyway, but not too much. I don't bother to prime the hinge before riveting it on. You can just shoot primer on it and the surface it is rivited to at the same time. Aluminum hinges are anodized fairly well so you don't really need to worry about them corroding on the back sides. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Charrois Subject: RV-List: Priming/painting piano hinges? Hi everyone. Just a quick question. For those who prime most everything before assembling, do you prime piano hinges as well? And/or for those who paint their aircraft, do the hinges get painted? Or should they be masked before painting the plane, and skipped in priming? I don't have my packing list handy at the moment, so I don't know if the hinge is stainless steel or otherwise already fairly impervious to corrosion. In any case, if everything else is being primed/ painted, I'd be tempted to be consistent, except for the concern that primer and/or paint would get into the hinge itself, stiffening its travel... Any suggestions? Thanks.. Dan -- Syzygy Research & Technology Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada Phone: 780-961-2213 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 05, 2005
From: Alan & Linda Daniels <aldaniels(at)fmtc.com>
Subject: Re: Priming/painting piano hinges?
I think it is personal preference. I fit the hinge and even hold it in place with a soft pop rivet if needed, but then remove it to paint the other surfaces. For me the paint seems to chip on the hinge so I polish or leave anodized and do final install after painting. Dan Charrois wrote: > >Hi everyone. Just a quick question. > >For those who prime most everything before assembling, do you prime >piano hinges as well? And/or for those who paint their aircraft, do >the hinges get painted? Or should they be masked before painting the >plane, and skipped in priming? > >I don't have my packing list handy at the moment, so I don't know if >the hinge is stainless steel or otherwise already fairly impervious >to corrosion. In any case, if everything else is being primed/ >painted, I'd be tempted to be consistent, except for the concern that >primer and/or paint would get into the hinge itself, stiffening its >travel... > >Any suggestions? > >Thanks.. Dan >-- >Syzygy Research & Technology >Box 83, Legal, AB T0G 1L0 Canada >Phone: 780-961-2213 > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2005
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: GPS 296/395
Nordo, What does this refer to? I am always looking at Ebay. I am always leary. Dave Nellis --- Al Grajek wrote: > > > NO!NO!NO > It is a big scam. Trust me. Look at the feedback. > All from sellers, not > buyers. These guys are in Romania. Even the guy they > give for reference > doesNOT work for Ebay. I checked it out. When I > first looked there wer 8 or > 10 of these. After Ebay investigated, there was one. > Also notice, the email > address chandes a lot. AND there is NO way to get > the money back. Thats why > they use Western Union. Like they say, "if its too > good to be true......." > Al Grajek > > > > Click on > about > provided > www.buildersbooks.com, > Admin. > _-> > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > Just $16.99/mo. or less. dsl.yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2005
Subject: Re: GPS 296/395
From: "Kelly McMullen" <kellym(at)aviating.com>
FAA-speak for NO RADIO. As in no comm or lost comm. > > Nordo, > > What does this refer to? I am always looking at Ebay. > I am always leary. > > Dave Nellis > > --- Al Grajek wrote: > >> >> >> NO!NO!NO >> It is a big scam. Trust me. Look at the feedback. >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2005
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Subject: Proptach for sale
Hi Listers, I have satisfied myself of the calibration of my panel tachometer. I no longer need my Proptach which, if you are not familiar, is a hand held optical tachometer that allows you to check your prop rpm directly. It cost me about $200 and I'll sell it for half price. Please contact me off list. Richard Dudley -6A 70 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: E Mag
Date: Dec 06, 2005
I need to order an engine soon and need to decide between a Mag/Lightspeed system or an E Mag/P Mag. Any input would be appreciated. John Furey RV6A F1 in process ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2005
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Ok, I need to order the fuselage before the price increase & the operational ups & downs of tip vs slider seem to balance, at least for me. The tipping point (pardon the pun) seems to be installation pains. I know that in the past, slider frames have been really tough for a lot of people. Those of you who have been there recently building the -7/-9 slider, what's it been like fitting the frame, start to finish? The guys at Van's are hinting that the new frames fit with less of a struggle. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 06, 2005
From: Dan <dan(at)rdan.com>
Subject: Just orderd RV-8
!!!!!I just ordered my RV-8 QB !!! My first kit I'm SO EXCITED Dan, Cleaning out the Garage !~ to make room !@@! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "HARRY CROSBY" <HCRV6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Received Ti-Downs TODAY
Date: Dec 06, 2005
Now you really got me curious Darrell, what did I miss. apparently someone was selling Ti tiedowns. How about filling me in now that you have yours. Thanks. Harry Crosby ----- Original Message ----- > > WOW... that was lightning fast. I ordered my Ti-Downs on Friday > 12/02/2005. I received them today Monday 12/05/2005, and there was a > weekend in there too. > > Everyone is correct in that they are beautiful!! > > > Darrell > > RV7A - 622DR Reserved > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Scott Lewis <rv10(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject: Deluxe Fuel Caps
INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 G'day all, Several weeks ago I threw out a question asking for feedback on the Deluxe Fuel Caps available from Van's. I got a couple of responses, but the overall dearth of interest I took to mean that almost no-one has them. So . . . . . . now that I have the caps in my hot little hands, I thought I would throw out a PIREP for anyone searching for the answer to the same question in future. Straight out of the box the Deluxe Caps look nicer than the standards with a more polished appearance. The dimensions of both are the same with the exception of the diameter of the filler neck, which is less on the deluxe caps due to the locking mechanism. The flange on the deluxe caps has a curve machined into it, so there is no need for any flange bending. That being said, the curve is a little too tight to fit the RV-10 tank skins well, I would imagine it would fit the other model's tanks much better. Nothing a bit of Proseal can't fill in any case. The standard caps have no separate locking mechanism. They are held in with the seal, which is formed by squeezing an O-Ring, forcing it outwards against the filler neck. I have seen a number of people report fuel leaks from around this seal. The deluxe caps have a two stage mechanism. The lowering of the clip presses the O-Ring at the top of the cap down against the angled wall of the filler neck, forming a more positive seal. With the clip up (and seal released) the cap is still held in, though it is loose. The cap is released by turning the clip 45 degrees, at which point the caps easily lifts out (as opposed to the force required to pull out the standard cap). The deluxe caps also can come with a key lock which is hidden below the clip. Overall all I am very impressed with these caps and very glad I bought them. Besides the fact they are just better, I think the ability to lock them is valuable in this day and age (unfortunately). Yes, they cost significantly more than the standard caps, but compared to the amount of money we are sinking into these aircraft . . . . . . . . I will be uploading some pictures into the Photoshare which hopefully will clarify some of my babble from above!! Have fun all, Scott Lewis RV-10 40172 Adelaide, South Australia ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Man, you've come this far and that's what's holding you up is a little (!) difficulty fitting the frames. What about the ingress / egress, water on the avionics, venting when taxiing, where the roll bar is placed, wind, etc. Or coolness factor. You're a builder. No stinking frame fitting can stop you now! Go for what you want. Until I switched over to the RV-10, it was tip up all the way for me. My son wanted a slider. He also want a little wheel in the back and an RV-8, but he didn't have the check book. John Jessen ~40328 (Empennage) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England Subject: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Ok, I need to order the fuselage before the price increase & the operational ups & downs of tip vs slider seem to balance, at least for me. The tipping point (pardon the pun) seems to be installation pains. I know that in the past, slider frames have been really tough for a lot of people. Those of you who have been there recently building the -7/-9 slider, what's it been like fitting the frame, start to finish? The guys at Van's are hinting that the new frames fit with less of a struggle. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Just orderd RV-8
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Great news, Dan! Now, remember, it's less of a marathon than it used to be, but that's what it is. Take your time and enjoy! John Jessen ~40328 (VS, Rudder, HS finished) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Subject: RV-List: Just orderd RV-8 !!!!!I just ordered my RV-8 QB !!! My first kit I'm SO EXCITED Dan, Cleaning out the Garage !~ to make room !@@! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Charlie, I opted for the slider for the only reason that it gives a hand hold to get in and out with. I hope that if I have any difficulty making it fit I can call on some of the local builders in the area, have them over for a cold drink and hope they will give me a hand in diagnosing the situation. Bob Perkinson Hendersonville, TN. RV9 N658RP Reserved If nothing changes Nothing changes - Ok, I need to order the fuselage before the price increase & the operational ups & downs of tip vs slider seem to balance, at least for me. The tipping point (pardon the pun) seems to be installation pains. I know that in the past, slider frames have been really tough for a lot of people. Those of you who have been there recently building the -7/-9 slider, what's it been like fitting the frame, start to finish? The guys at Van's are hinting that the new frames fit with less of a struggle. Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912
Date: Dec 07, 2005
I believe the balance has changed! It is now harder for most builders to do the tip up than the slider. As I see it, the reasons are: Slider instructions are much better, frame is now made quite a bit different and is more builder friendly. Tip up looks to me has not changed much at all. Let's hear from the guys at teh builders centers! Denis Walsh On Dec 7, 2005, at 7:51 AM, Bob Perkinson wrote: > > Charlie, > I opted for the slider for the only reason that it gives a hand > hold to get > in and out with. I hope that if I have any difficulty making it > fit I can > call on some of the local builders in the area, have them over for > a cold > drink and hope they will give me a hand in diagnosing the situation. > > Bob Perkinson > Hendersonville, TN. > RV9 N658RP Reserved > If nothing changes > Nothing changes > > > - > > > > Ok, I need to order the fuselage before the price increase & the > operational ups & downs of tip vs slider seem to balance, at least > for me. > > The tipping point (pardon the pun) seems to be installation pains. I > know that in the past, slider frames have been really tough for a > lot of > people. > > Those of you who have been there recently building the -7/-9 slider, > what's it been like fitting the frame, start to finish? The guys at > Van's are hinting that the new frames fit with less of a struggle. > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Paul Folbrecht wrote: > > Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back on > the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows > open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... > > If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want > the tip-up. I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to be placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable enough to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the airframe..... ;-) Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) http://thervjournal.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912 Stick with the tip-up unless you enjoy laying on hard aluminum bedding and like to look at roll bars in your vision while you fly. It will not take but once or twice having an under the panel issue and a slider to really pis* you off. Oh, then those cuts and bruises on the forehead from getting out from under the panel... And, both canopies will leak if care is not taken when they are built up and installed. With a little TLC...and work both types will keep things pretty dry. Darrell Charlie England wrote: Ok, I need to order the fuselage before the price increase & the operational ups & downs of tip vs slider seem to balance, at least for me. The tipping point (pardon the pun) seems to be installation pains. I know that in the past, slider frames have been really tough for a lot of people. Those of you who have been there recently building the -7/-9 slider, what's it been like fitting the frame, start to finish? The guys at Van's are hinting that the new frames fit with less of a struggle. Thanks, Charlie --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com>
Subject: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 07, 2005
I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be able to slide the canopy back after landing. I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason I went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. John L. Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick Paul Folbrecht wrote: > > Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back on > the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows > open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... > > If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want > the tip-up. I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to be placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable enough to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the airframe..... ;-) Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) http://thervjournal.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Flap Actuator Template for RV8
Date: Dec 07, 2005
I guess I am slow but have missed the address or e-mail to get this drawing of the template. I have seen a real nice cover made by Jim Daniels in New Mexico on his RV8 and I'm curious if this is the one evryone is sharing? If possible can someone re-post it to the list or send it direct to my e-mail (brucerv8 at charter dot net) TIA, Bruce Gray RV8 Fuse IN PREP STAGES FOR RIVETING(In Jig) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Subject: Re: E Mag
John, Are you familiar with the "Aeroelectric List" ? Lots of discussion about E/P mags over there. Archive search will turn up tons of 'em... _http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/aeroelectric-list/date.html_ (http://www.matronics.com/listbrowse/aeroelectric-list/date.html) Jerry Cochran Wilsonville, OR From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RV-List: E Mag I need to order an engine soon and need to decide between a Mag/Lightspeed system or an E Mag/P Mag. Any input would be appreciated. John Furey RV6A F1 in process ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Weyant" <cweyant(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 07, 2005
If you're going to travel the Country, I'd get a slider. I landed and parked in Bullhead City, AZ a couple of months ago to spend a couple of nights in Laughlin, NV (across the river) and the desert wind was blowing. Their parking arrangment was such that you could not park into the wind. I remember thinking I had made the right decision choosing the slider. Now my question is, what's the best rudder lock for a Nine? Chuck Weyant RV9A ----- Original Message ----- > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason I > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. > > John L. Danielson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > Paul Folbrecht wrote: > >> >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back > on >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... >> >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want >> the tip-up. > > > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to be > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable enough > > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. > > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the airframe..... > ;-) > > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) > http://thervjournal.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Just orderd RV-8
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Dan, Congratulation - "Fun Begins" but wait until you flight your 8 - Wow Best Wishes, Chuck Rowbotham RV8A >From: Dan <dan(at)rdan.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Just orderd RV-8 >Date: Tue, 6 Dec 2005 20:25:06 -0800 (PST) > > > !!!!!I just ordered my RV-8 QB !!! >My first kit I'm SO EXCITED > >Dan, >Cleaning out the Garage !~ to make room !@@! > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oliver Washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 07, 2005
A good case for the slider in my opinion is take a look at which should give you the most protection in case of a nose over. I lost a good friend in a nose over in a tip-up this year. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be > able to slide the canopy back after landing. > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason I > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. > > John L. Danielson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > Paul Folbrecht wrote: > >> >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back > on >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... >> >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want >> the tip-up. > > > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to be > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable enough > > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. > > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the airframe..... > ;-) > > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) > http://thervjournal.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
Ollie, Is it your opinion that your friend would have lived with the rollbar? Was this an RV? Mike Very sorry about your friend -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Washburn Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick A good case for the slider in my opinion is take a look at which should give you the most protection in case of a nose over. I lost a good friend in a nose over in a tip-up this year. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be > able to slide the canopy back after landing. > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason I > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. > > John L. Danielson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > Paul Folbrecht wrote: > >> >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back > on >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... >> >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want >> the tip-up. > > > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to be > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable enough > > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. > > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the airframe..... > ;-) > > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) > http://thervjournal.com > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
What reference material are you using that states the tip-up caused the death? Darrell Oliver Washburn wrote: A good case for the slider in my opinion is take a look at which should give you the most protection in case of a nose over. I lost a good friend in a nose over in a tip-up this year. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Danielson" Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be > able to slide the canopy back after landing. > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason I > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. > > John L. Danielson > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > Paul Folbrecht wrote: > >> >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back > on >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... >> >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want >> the tip-up. > > > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to be > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable enough > > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. > > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the airframe..... > ;-) > > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) > http://thervjournal.com > > > --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "oliver h washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Mike, Yes it was an RV and i suppose there is no way of knowing, but if you lay a straight edge on a tip-up drawing it goes right through the tip-up and just maybe a rollbar would have prevented his broken neck. I was the second one there and I"m saying no more. Ollie > [Original Message] > From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) <mstewart(at)iss.net> > To: > Date: 12/7/2005 3:04:02 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > Ollie, > Is it your opinion that your friend would have lived with the rollbar? > Was this an RV? > Mike > Very sorry about your friend > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Washburn > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > A good case for the slider in my opinion is take a look at which > should > give you the most protection in case of a nose over. I lost a good > friend in > a nose over in a tip-up this year. > > Ollie > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > > > > I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be > > able to slide the canopy back after landing. > > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason > I > > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph > > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. > > > > John L. Danielson > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > > > > > Paul Folbrecht wrote: > > > >> > >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back > > on > >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows > >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... > >> > >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want > >> the tip-up. > > > > > > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy > > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider > > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to > be > > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from > > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to > > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in > > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable > enough > > > > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. > > > > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the > airframe..... > > ;-) > > > > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) > > http://thervjournal.com > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
What would be the basis for believing that the slider would provide better protection if you turn turtle in an RV? My inclination is to believe the opposite, that a tip-up would be better, based on the roll bar being closer to your head. While there might be specific examples where a slider would have provided more protection, can anyone describe a general principle that would suggest that they are safer? --- Tedd McHenry Surrey, BC, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Date: Dec 07, 2005
Subject: re: E Mag
John, I think it depends on your objectives. If you want the simplest installation, go with the E-Mag/P-Mag combo. If I had to do it over, that's what I'd do. I put dual Lightspeeds in my airplane (before the E/P-mag products were announced). Lightspeed does retain a couple advantages over the E/P-mags. One is that if you use the crank-triggered timing pickup(s) on the Lightspeed system, it has zero moving parts which in theory makes it more reliable in the long term. A second perceived advantage from talking to both vendors is that Lightspeed's timing curves are a bit more aggressive and have a proven track record of superior efficiency (i.e. Klaus Savier's racing records and Jon Johanson's round the world flights). I talked to the guys producing the E/P-Mags and they told me their timing curves were more conservative (this could also be a good thing if you question whether Lightspeed's timing curves may be getting too close to the limit...but lots of Lightspeed systems have been running out there and I am not aware of any documented engine damage occurring as a result of the ignition timing). That said, the downside to the Lightspeed system is that it's more of a pain to install...you gotta mount the control box, mount the coils, run coax from the box to the coils and then the ignition leads from the coils to the spark plugs. Oh and by the way the box is supposed to be mounted outside of the engine compartment meaning you have to run wiring & man. pressure hose through the firewall and find someplace in the cabin to put the box. If you ignore this advice like I did, you have to worry about heat and moisture getting into the control box. And the ignition leads may not be the right length depending on where you mount the coils, so you may have to send them back like I did and get new ones made to fit your installation. And then if you have dual Lightspeeds you have to worry about backup electrical source (a second battery in my case). The E/P-mag system is so much easier to install as a system, and especially since you don't have to worry about backup electrical source, that I would go that route if I had to do it over. The only reason I would hesitate on the E/P-Mag system at this time is because they have a relatively short track-record and it's possible that you could experience unforeseen problems with the system and/or company. But we already know that Lightspeed is not without its issues....not the least of which is starter kick-back which has been well-documented by a number of unfortunate souls on this List. That's my advice, worth what ya paid for it... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection, in the middle of an Iowa ice age... From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> Subject: RV-List: E Mag I need to order an engine soon and need to decide between a Mag/Lightspeed system or an E Mag/P Mag. Any input would be appreciated. John Furey RV6A F1 in process John, I think it depends on your objectives. If you want the simplest installation, go with the E-Mag/P-Mag combo. If I had to do it over, that's what I'd do. I put dual Lightspeeds in my airplane (before the E/P-mag products were announced). Lightspeed does retain a couple advantages over the E/P-mags. One is that if you use the crank-triggered timing pickup(s) on the Lightspeed system, it has zero moving parts which in theory makes it more reliable in the long term. A second perceived advantage from talking to both vendors is that Lightspeed's timing curves are a bit more aggressive and have a proven track record of superior efficiency (i.e. Klaus Savier's racing records and Jon Johanson's round the world flights). I talked to the guys producing the E/P-Mags and they told me their timing curves were more conservative (this could also be a good thing if you question whether Lightspeed's timing curves may be getting too close to the limit...but lots of Lightspeed systems have been running out there and I am not aware of any documented engine damage occurring as a result of the ignition timing). That said, the downside to the Lightspeed system is that it's more of a pain to install...you gotta mount the control box, mount the coils, run coax from the box to the coils and then the ignition leads from the coils to the spark plugs. Oh and by the way the box is supposed to be mounted outside of the engine compartment meaning you have to run wiring man. pressure hose through the firewall and find someplace in the cabin to put the box. If you ignore this advice like I did, you have to worry about heat and moisture getting into the control box. And the ignition leads may not be the right length depending on where you mount the coils, so you may have to send them back like I did and get new ones made to fit your installation. And then if you have dual Lightspeeds you have to worry about backup electrical source (a second battery in my case). The E/P-mag system is so much easier to install as a system, and especially since you don't have to worry about backup electrical source, that I would go that route if I had to do it over. The only reason I would hesitate on the E/P-Mag system at this time is because they have a relatively short track-record and it's possible that you could experience unforeseen problems with the system and/or company. But we already know that Lightspeed is not without its issues....not the least of which is starter kick-back which has been well-documented by a number of unfortunate souls on this List. That's my advice, worth what ya paid for it... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection, in the middle ofan Iowa ice age... From: "John Furey" john(at)fureychrysler.com Subject: RV-List: E Mag -- RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" john(at)fureychrysler.com I need to order an engine soon and need to decide between a Mag/Lightspeed system or an E Mag/P Mag. Any input would be appreciated. John Furey RV6A F1 in process ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: re: E Mag
The only down side to the lightspeed system as I'm told is the owner... many complaints that his attitude if you have a problem, it's your problem as in if something has gone wrong you had to of screwed something up on your own... he accepts no responsibility. I've heard this from many builders trying to get support out of him. Darrell "czechsix(at)juno.com" wrote: John, I think it depends on your objectives. If you want the simplest installation, go with the E-Mag/P-Mag combo. If I had to do it over, that's what I'd do. I put dual Lightspeeds in my airplane (before the E/P-mag products were announced). Lightspeed does retain a couple advantages over the E/P-mags. One is that if you use the crank-triggered timing pickup(s) on the Lightspeed system, it has zero moving parts which in theory makes it more reliable in the long term. A second perceived advantage from talking to both vendors is that Lightspeed's timing curves are a bit more aggressive and have a proven track record of superior efficiency (i.e. Klaus Savier's racing records and Jon Johanson's round the world flights). I talked to the guys producing the E/P-Mags and they told me their timing curves were more conservative (this could also be a good thing if you question whether Lightspeed's timing curves may be getting too close to the limit...but lots of Lightspeed systems have been! running out there and I am not aware of any documented engine damage occurring as a result of the ignition timing). That said, the downside to the Lightspeed system is that it's more of a pain to install...you gotta mount the control box, mount the coils, run coax from the box to the coils and then the ignition leads from the coils to the spark plugs. Oh and by the way the box is supposed to be mounted outside of the engine compartment meaning you have to run wiring & man. pressure hose through the firewall and find someplace in the cabin to put the box. If you ignore this advice like I did, you have to worry about heat and moisture getting into the control box. And the ignition leads may not be the right length depending on where you mount the coils, so you may have to send them back like I did and get new ones made to fit your installation. And then if you have dual Lightspeeds you have to worry about backup electrical source (a second battery in my case). The E/P-mag system is so much easier to install as a system, and especially since you don't have to worry about backup electrical source, that I would go that route if I had to do it over. The only reason I would hesitate on the E/P-Mag system at this time is because they have a relatively short track-record and it's possible that you could experience unforeseen problems with the system and/or company. But we already know that Lightspeed is not without its issues....not the least of which is starter kick-back which has been well-documented by a number of unfortunate souls on this List. That's my advice, worth what ya paid for it... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection, in the middle of an Iowa ice age... From: "John Furey" Subject: RV-List: E Mag I need to order an engine soon and need to decide between a Mag/Lightspeed system or an E Mag/P Mag. Any input would be appreciated. John Furey RV6A F1 in process John, I think it depends on your objectives. If you want the simplest installation, go with the E-Mag/P-Mag combo. If I had to do it over, that's what I'd do. I put dual Lightspeeds in my airplane (before the E/P-mag products were announced). Lightspeed does retain a couple advantages over the E/P-mags. One is that if you use the crank-triggered timing pickup(s) on the Lightspeed system, it has zero moving parts which in theory makes it more reliable in the long term. A second perceived advantage from talking to both vendors is that Lightspeed's timing curves are a bit more aggressive and have a proven track record of superior efficiency (i.e. Klaus Savier's racing records and Jon Johanson's round the world flights). I talked to the guys producing the E/P-Mags and they told me their timing curves were more conservative (this could also be a good thing if you question whether Lightspeed's timing curves may be getting too close to the limit...but lots of Lightspeed systems have been! running out there and I am not aware of any documented engine damage occurring as a result of the ignition timing). That said, the downside to the Lightspeed system is that it's more of a pain to install...you gotta mount the control box, mount the coils, run coax from the box to the coils and then the ignition leads from the coils to the spark plugs. Oh and by the way the box is supposed to be mounted outside of the engine compartment meaning you have to run wiring man. pressure hose through the firewall and find someplace in the cabin to put the box. If you ignore this advice like I did, you have to worry about heat and moisture getting into the control box. And the ignition leads may not be the right length depending on where you mount the coils, so you may have to send them back like I did and get new ones made to fit your installation. And then if you have dual Lightspeeds you have to worry about backup electrical source (a second battery in my case). The E/P-mag system is so much easier to install as a system, and especially since you don't have to worry about backup electrical source, that I would go that route if I had to do it over. The only reason I would hesitate on the E/P-Mag system at this time is because they have a relatively short track-record and it's possible that you could experience unforeseen problems with the system and/or company. But we already know that Lightspeed is not without its issues....not the least of which is starter kick-back which has been well-documented by a number of unfortunate souls on this List. That's my advice, worth what ya paid for it... --Mark Navratil Cedar Rapids, Iowa RV-8A N2D almost ready for final inspection, in the middle ofan Iowa ice age... From: "John Furey" john(at)fureychrysler.com Subject: RV-List: E Mag -- RV-List message posted by: "John Furey" john(at)fureychrysler.com I need to order an engine soon and need to decide between a Mag/Lightspeed system or an E Mag/P Mag. Any input would be appreciated. John Furey RV6A F1 in process Darrell RV7A - 622DR Reserved --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: Cleaning out the hanger sale
Date: Dec 07, 2005
I have finally gotten around to gathering up some odds and ends that have accumulated that I will sell to a good home for the right price. As always, email me direct at brian(at)engalt.com, not to the entire list. You can also call me at 904-536-1780. Here is what I have at the moment: Midget Mustang, 109 hours TT, O-200 with about 1,100 hours SMOH, 174 MPH cruise, new Imron paint job, custom stainless exhaust, VFR day/night - $22,000 OBO Sonerai II, 450 hours TT, 1835 VW with 55 hours SMOH, good flying condition - $9,000 OBO KR-2, 45 hours TT, Revmaster 2100 turbo with 45 hours TT, was flying, but one wing water damaged, have new spars to build another. Whole plane - $8,000, engine only with Hegy prop - $3,500, will sell cowl, engine mount, and rest of firewall forward package for $500 with engine, brand new Grove gear and mounting brackets $1,100. Will not sell gear separate unless someone else buys the plane without it. Vacuum pump, mounting bracket for VW, filter, regulator, vacuum gauge, attitude indicator, and heading indicator - $1,000. Brand spanking new Garmin GTX 320A transponder in original box with tray and all connectors - $1,000. Nice small IFR radio package including Terra TX720 com radio, Terra TN200 nav receiver with ILS and glideslope, Arnav 20 loran, Terra Trinav C display with digital CDI for nav or loran, ILS indicator, and glideslope indicator, ICS intercom with 3 light marker beacon - $3,000 for complete package with all trays and wiring harnesses. Bendix TR-641 A transponder with brand spanking new ACK encoder already wired to it - $700. RT-359A transponder with brand new ACK encoder already wired to it - $700. Sportys SP-200 handheld with headset adaptor cables - $220. Garmin GPS-90 aviation handheld GPS with yoke mount, external power cord, external antenna suction cup mount, original manual, and cigarette lighter plug $120. 1965 bomber emergency parachute with C9 canopy freshly certified and repacked - $400. All located in Jacksonville, FL. And no, I am not getting out of flying, just need more room at the moment. Once two of the planes go the other one comes off the market until I get my KR-2S done. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 07, 2005
From: Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
As Ollie said, draw a line from the top of the tail to the nose on both designs. On the slider, there is quite a rise in the line as it goes over the rollbar, not so on the tip up. At 6'2", as I sit in a tip up, my head is almost as high as the rollbar. Bodies & belts stretch quite a bit. If I flipped in a tip up I expect the top of my head would get quite a whack and could easily break my neck. In a slider, I might hit the canopy, but that's a lot softer than the pavement. Which you rather hit, a plexiglass canopy, or a canopy backed up by pavement? Of course if the tail bends very much, all bets are off. Richard Scott RV-9A Wings ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? (pleaseeee)
>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? >The other day, we were doing formation practice. I heard something I never >thought I would ever hear...a pilot (who shall remain nameless) admitted >that the slider got in the way of his view. We were trying to polish >echelon turns, and this guy commented, "When I turn right, I get a face full >of metal." >Nuff said. ;-) There's nothing like the visibility in the tip-up. Dan: Tell him lean 1-inch forward, or move his head back or forward or left or to the right. Geeeeeee, lol. Me thinks he exaggerate, but the tip-up does have an unobstructed view just like my RV-4; My RV-7 has a slider, but the way you did it Dan, is perfect for you. Nuff said ;-) George --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: re: E Mag
>The only down side to the lightspeed system as I'm told is the owner... >many complaints that his attitude if you have a problem, it's your problem >as in if something has gone wrong you had to of screwed something up on >your own... he accepts no responsibility. I've heard this from many >builders trying to get support out of him. > > Darrell I have exactly the opposite experience. When I had a problem, which ultimately may have just been some contact "corrosion," Klaus sent me replacement parts to help diagnose the problem. In the process of replacing things the problem cleared and he tested my unit for functionality. So I was happy with his support. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide?
Here is an article that may help. Bottom line is that both have advantages http://www.vansairforce.net/articles/tipupvsslider.htm Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide?
One thing I'd like to point out is that a roll-over stucture is not the only thing required to protect the occupants in a roll-over accident. Having crotch straps in your harnesses will help protect the occupants from sliding up the seats and might make the difference in avoiding any injuries of the vertebrae (ie broken neck.) For me, having a slider in the -6, I will never have one again. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying, F1 under const (tip-over canopy and rollbar) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com>
Subject: Tip up vs slider
Date: Dec 08, 2005
I see on digest there is lots of responses , didnt read em all but here is my 2 cents worth as an older fellow. Its very easy to grab the hand holds on the roll bar on the slider and drop in or pull yourself out, I only got in and out of a tip up once, and found it much harder to get in and out of. Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com>
Subject: Lying on medical
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Anybody see the report of the guy making false statements on his med aplication and is now facing federal charges that could get him 5 yrs in the pokey and or $250000 fine? Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Lying on medical
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Yep, and if he hadn't passed out while flying, he'd still be. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco Subject: RV-List: Lying on medical Anybody see the report of the guy making false statements on his med aplication and is now facing federal charges that could get him 5 yrs in the pokey and or $250000 fine? Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Lying on medical
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com>
A friend of mine did NOT lie on his medical about a very light dose of anti-depressants he was taking (Hay, he flies a Beech Sundowner; you would be depressed too!) and he had to fight with the examiner and the FAA for 8 months to be reinstated from suspension. Right after reinstatement his plane went into annual and so that was the better part of a year W/O flying all the time paying for a tie down, insurance etc... I am not suggesting one needs to lie but some of the systems and procedures of the FAA as are antiquated as the steam gauges we are flying behind. Robin RV-4 200 hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: "jim" <jim(at)pellien.com>
Subject: Re: Lying on medical
Charles, Could you give me the URL for that report. I'd like to include it on my website. Thanks, Jim Jim Pellien Mid-Atlantic Sports Planes www.MASPL.com 703-313-4818 jim(at)sportsplanes.com ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> Date: Thu, 8 Dec 2005 13:14:51 -0600 > >Anybody see the report of the guy making false statements on his med aplication and is now facing federal charges that could get him 5 yrs in the pokey and or $250000 fine? Charlie Heathco > > Sent via the WebMail system at mail.pellien.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 09, 2005
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide?
> For me, having a slider in the -6, I will never have one again. > Bob Japundza Is that because the F1 will be the last one you will have? Seriously, please give your reasons. Most of the discussion seems to be from tip up builders defending their decision. I'm building a slider because I like the look of it and on balance the practicalities seem about the same. I simply do not like the appearance of a tip-up when it is open or part open. I don't like the behind the panel & wiring exposed to the world. It's a bit like exposing your underwear in public, only rarely is it attractive. I'm sure a suitable cover can be fabricated so it is probably not a consideration. I also do not like the jigglys when taxying. The $ risk of damaged avionics due to water leakage behind the panel via the hinge slots was the final clincher. A down side of the slider is the extra metalwork in the field of view. However, when flying I have never noticed my view to have been obscured by frames or bars and without exception the few aircraft I have flown have had much more metalwork to look at than in the RV slider. I real plus for the tip up is the access behind the panel. For the slider you can choose to add sub panels for some instruments or a screwed access panel on the top skin. Most practical issues can be addressed so IMO it comes back to general aesthetics. Doug Gray RV-6 Fuse - soon to commence the canopy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins)
Subject: Re: Lying on medical
Date: Dec 08, 2005
I wish the FAA would lighten up on the anti-depressants a bit, my son could fly. However I realize why they don't. The side-effects can be devastating including seizures. But rather than just a blanket ban on pilots, I'd like to see some sort of medical evluation of the pilot, the med and the situation instead of the FAA version of the "soup Nazi." -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> > > > A friend of mine did NOT lie on his medical about a very light dose of > anti-depressants he was taking (Hay, he flies a Beech Sundowner; you > would be depressed too!) and he had to fight with the examiner and the > FAA for 8 months to be reinstated from suspension. Right after ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Ollie - sorry to dwell on this, but did it tip over forwards with the nosewheel collapsing or some other way. Steve. ----- Original Message ----- From: "oliver h washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > Mike, > Yes it was an RV and i suppose there is no way of knowing, but if you lay > a straight edge on a tip-up drawing it goes right through the tip-up and > just maybe a rollbar would have prevented his broken neck. I was the > second > one there and I"m saying no more. > > Ollie > > >> [Original Message] >> From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) <mstewart(at)iss.net> >> To: >> Date: 12/7/2005 3:04:02 PM >> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >> > >> >> Ollie, >> Is it your opinion that your friend would have lived with the rollbar? >> Was this an RV? >> Mike >> Very sorry about your friend >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Washburn >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >> >> >> A good case for the slider in my opinion is take a look at which >> should >> give you the most protection in case of a nose over. I lost a good >> friend in >> a nose over in a tip-up this year. >> >> Ollie >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> >> To: >> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >> >> >> > >> > I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be >> > able to slide the canopy back after landing. >> > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason >> I >> > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph >> > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. >> > >> > John L. Danielson >> > >> > >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan >> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >> > >> > >> > Paul Folbrecht wrote: >> > >> >> >> >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back >> > on >> >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows >> >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... >> >> >> >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want >> >> the tip-up. >> > >> > >> > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy >> > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider >> > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to >> be >> > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from >> > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to >> > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in >> > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable >> enough >> > >> > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. >> > >> > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the >> airframe..... >> > ;-) >> > >> > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) >> > http://thervjournal.com >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > > This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System > on behalf of the London Business School community. > For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email > ______________________________________________________________________ > > > -- > 07/12/2005 > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVE MADER" <davemader(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Re: Lying on medical
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Never gave it much thought, but my son just got his 3rd class medical in the L.A. area a month ago and in the course of the conversation, the Dr. told him he knew of examiners that would pass you for X amount of dollars regardless of medical history. I realize it's totally devious and illegal, but .....would be tempting if you had some issues. bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins) wrote: > > I wish the FAA would lighten up on the anti-depressants a bit, my son could >fly. However I realize why they don't. The side-effects can be devastating >including seizures. But rather than just a blanket ban on pilots, I'd like >to see some sort of medical evluation of the pilot, the med and the situation >instead of the FAA version of the "soup Nazi." > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> >> >> >> A friend of mine did NOT lie on his medical about a very light dose of >> anti-depressants he was taking (Hay, he flies a Beech Sundowner; you >> would be depressed too!) and he had to fight with the examiner and the >> FAA for 8 months to be reinstated from suspension. Right after > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Weight & Balance Arm
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Getting ready to weigh my RV8A QB, I'm coming up with main wheel to wing leading edge distance of 22 9/16 inches. The sample RV8A W&B in my instruction book shows 24 inches. The plane is sitting at a 3 degree nose up angle, but I thought I'd be closer to the book number than this. Could those of you who remember let me know what your number came out for your RV8A? Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 38 Msgs - 12/07/05
From: Jack Loflin <loflinj(at)comcast.net>
I have a UPSAT CNX-80/GARMIN GNS-480 install kit/rack for sale. Was wired by John Stark Avionics last year. Cost me $550, asking $400. E-mail if interested: loflinj(at)comcast.net -Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Subject: CNX-80/GNS-480 Rack/Install kit
From: Jack Loflin <loflinj(at)comcast.net>
I have a UPSAT CNX-80/GARMIN GNS-480 install kit/rack for sale. Was wired by John Stark Avionics last year. Cost me $550, asking $400. E-mail if interested: loflinj(at)comcast.net -Jack ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net>
Subject: Re: Lying on medical
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Received-SPF: none I don't know about lying on the medical forms, but from what I know that most drugs used to treat medical disorders will be disqualifying for a medical. I have not found this out on my own...even though my wife is trying her hardest to get me to need such drugs. Also, if you do lie on your medical, you might as well save the insurance premium, since in most cases when the truth comes out the insurance won't pay. Jim Jim Cimino N7TL RV-8 S/N 80039 150+ Hours http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robin Marks" <robin(at)mrmoisture.com> Subject: RV-List: Lying on medical > > > A friend of mine did NOT lie on his medical about a very light dose of > anti-depressants he was taking (Hay, he flies a Beech Sundowner; you > would be depressed too!) and he had to fight with the examiner and the > FAA for 8 months to be reinstated from suspension. Right after > reinstatement his plane went into annual and so that was the better part > of a year W/O flying all the time paying for a tie down, insurance > etc... I am not suggesting one needs to lie but some of the systems and > procedures of the FAA as are antiquated as the steam gauges we are > flying behind. > > Robin > RV-4 200 hours > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Weight & Balance Arm
Date: Dec 08, 2005
> > Getting ready to weigh my RV8A QB, I'm coming up with main wheel to > wing leading edge distance of 22 9/16 inches. The sample RV8A W&B > in my instruction book shows 24 inches. The plane is sitting at a > 3 degree nose up angle, but I thought I'd be closer to the book > number than this. Could those of you who remember let me know what > your number came out for your RV8A? David, If you drop a plumb line from the wing leading edge, and then slowly tip the aircraft nose up, the distance from the plumb line to the main wheel will decrease as you tip the aircraft up. Your measurement of plumb line to main wheel is 1 7/16 inch less than you expected, and your fuselage is tipped 3 degrees nose up. If your main wheel was exactly where Van said it should be, and you tipped the aircraft 3 degrees nose up, the error you measured implies the leading edge is about 27.4 inches above the main wheel axle. This is in the right ball park I think, so I suspect your main wheels are roughly in the right place. The aircraft really, really needs to be level when you do the weight and balance. Otherwise it is a case of "garbage in, garbage out". You would at first glance think you could simply measure the distances from a plumb bob hung at the LE to the wheels, and use those measurements, no matter if you aren't level. But, if we do that, the empty CG we calculate is with respect to a line that is sloped by 3 degrees from the vertical (because the aircraft was 3 degrees off level when you weighed it). This means we can't cross reference to the recommended forward and aft CG limits that Van gives us. Van's numbers are measured from a reference that is at 90 degrees to the fuselage reference line. We could in theory correct your calculations to put them in the same reference as Van uses, But, we can't make this correction unless we know the vertical height of the aircraft's CG. We could approximately figure that out if we took weighings at two very different pitch attitudes and did some clever math (or plotting). But, it is easier to simply level the aircraft, and do it once, correctly. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)Aerojet.com>
AL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOB
AL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
Date: Dec 08, 2005
I've opted for the slider on my '-7A. I think I can live with the slight visual obstruction although I agree the tip-up would be better in this regard. I like the slider for the western desert heat. I have mitigated the instrument panel access issue by modifying the panel to hinge down based on a design I saw in a recent RVator. I'm still in the process of building the panel up but so far it's pretty slick - I can sit in the pilot seat and basically drop the whole thing in my lap, or detach two bolts and some cable connectors and pull the whole thing out to work on the bench. Easy mod. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> Ive opted for the slider on my -7A. I think I can live with the slight visual obstruction although I agree the tip-up would be better in this regard. I like the slider for the western desert heat. I have mitigated the instrument panel access issue by modifying the panel to hinge down based on a design I saw in a recent RVator. Im still in the process of building the panel up but so far its pretty slick I can sit in the pilot seat and basically drop the whole thing in my lap, or detach two bolts and some cable connectors and pull the whole thing out to work on the bench. Easy mod. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)Aerojet.com>
"IMB Recipient 1"
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOB
AL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912;INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000 1.0000 -4.4912RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick INNOCENT GLOBAL 0.0000
Date: Dec 08, 2005
I've opted for the slider on my '-7A. I think I can live with the slight visual obstruction although I agree the tip-up would be better in this regard. I like the slider for the western desert heat. I have mitigated the instrument panel access issue by modifying the panel to hinge down based on a design I saw in a recent RVator. I'm still in the process of building the panel up but so far it's pretty slick - I can sit in the pilot seat and basically drop the whole thing in my lap, or detach two bolts and some cable connectors and pull the whole thing out to work on the bench. Easy mod. http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40"> Ive opted for the slider on my -7A. I think I can live with the slight visual obstruction although I agree the tip-up would be better in this regard. I like the slider for the western desert heat. I have mitigated the instrument panel access issue by modifying the panel to hinge down based on a design I saw in a recent RVator. Im still in the process of building the panel up but so far its pretty slick I can sit in the pilot seat and basically drop the whole thing in my lap, or detach two bolts and some cable connectors and pull the whole thing out to work on the bench. Easy mod. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Weight & Balance Arm
Date: Dec 08, 2005
SNIP > The aircraft really, really needs to be level when you do the > weight and balance. Otherwise it is a case of "garbage in, > garbage out". SNIP > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 Maybe this has already been described, but a very easy way to get the plane dead nuts level is to use about a 12 foot length of about 1/4" or larger PVC tubing filled with water and taped to the fuselage. Put enough water in the line to fill it from some forward part of the straight (level) longeron to an aft location. Adjust the taped on tubing until the water levels are close to the longeron. Now level the plane until the water levels are the same distance above (or below) the longeron in both fore and aft positions. One caution: make sure there are no bubbles in the water! Bubbles will normally form in the tubing after a few hours, so if you come back to it later make sure that you tap all the bubbles out. Alex Peterson RV6-A N66AP 696 hours Maple Grove, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: ND New Alternator kit
This is a nice alternator kit available with a ND or Mitsu NEW alternator. I bought one, Richard sells a nice kit. EBay 4596218435 Worth checking out and the price is right... Darrell RV7A - 622DR Reserved --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Oldsfolks(at)aol.com
Date: Dec 08, 2005
Subject: Re:Lying on Medical
I wonder what the fine would be for flying with NO medical ?? Might be worth trying it out. Might accumulate a bunch of hours for free. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Dec 08, 2005
From: Bob J <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide?
On 12/8/05, Doug Gray wrote: > > > > For me, having a slider in the -6, I will never have one again. > > Bob Japundza > > Is that because the F1 will be the last one you will have? > > Seriously, please give your reasons. I put a flop-over canopy on my F1. The main reason being the panoramic view, and not having to look around a roll bar when flying formation. Fly several hundred hours in a RV-6 then go fly a RV-4 or Rocket, you won't know what your missing until you remove the roll bar from your view. It was easier, cheaper, lighter, and very easy to seal. I had a total of about $50 in building the frame and $300 for the canopy. I couldn't be happier with how it came out. If I had to do the -6 canopy over, I't go with the tip-up. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying, F1 under const. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re:Lying on Medical
Date: Dec 09, 2005
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Just a guess but flying with no medical is better than flying with a lyin' medical. Chuck Jensen > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oldsfolks(at)aol.com > Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 10:41 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re:Lying on Medical > > > I wonder what the fine would be for flying with NO medical ?? > Might be worth trying it out. Might accumulate a bunch of hours for free. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oliver Washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick
Date: Dec 09, 2005
Nose wheel bent, dug in and plane nosed over. Ollie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Sampson" <SSampson.SLN21(at)london.edu> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > Ollie - sorry to dwell on this, but did it tip over forwards with the > nosewheel collapsing or some other way. Steve. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "oliver h washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net> > To: > Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick > > >> >> >> Mike, >> Yes it was an RV and i suppose there is no way of knowing, but if you >> lay >> a straight edge on a tip-up drawing it goes right through the tip-up and >> just maybe a rollbar would have prevented his broken neck. I was the >> second >> one there and I"m saying no more. >> >> Ollie >> >> >>> [Original Message] >>> From: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) <mstewart(at)iss.net> >>> To: >>> Date: 12/7/2005 3:04:02 PM >>> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >>> >> >>> >>> Ollie, >>> Is it your opinion that your friend would have lived with the rollbar? >>> Was this an RV? >>> Mike >>> Very sorry about your friend >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Oliver Washburn >>> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >>> >>> >>> A good case for the slider in my opinion is take a look at which >>> should >>> give you the most protection in case of a nose over. I lost a good >>> friend in >>> a nose over in a tip-up this year. >>> >>> Ollie >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> >>> To: >>> Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >>> >>> >>> > >>> > I like the slider for the summer months when it is hot. Its nice to be >>> > able to slide the canopy back after landing. >>> > I live in Wyoming where the wind blows A LOT!. That is the main reason >>> I >>> > went with the slider. I would hate to loss the canopy to a 30-35 mph >>> > gust, and yes I have landed in those kind of winds and maybe more. >>> > >>> > John L. Danielson >>> > >>> > >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com >>> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan >>> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >>> > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-7 Tip or slide? time to pick >>> > >>> > >>> > Paul Folbrecht wrote: >>> > >>> >> >>> >> Where do you fly? I have to think being able to pull the slider back >>> > on >>> >> the ground in the summer is huge.. I roast in my 152 with the windows >>> >> open even on those long taxis, waiting for release, etc... >>> >> >>> >> If I were in Seattle where it was never 90 and humid I think I'd want >>> >> the tip-up. >>> > >>> > >>> > I fly, just as Mike does, in the hot, humid, muggy, sticky, hazy >>> > Southeast USA. In my opinion, the oft-repeated advantage of the slider >>> > in hot climates is overstated. The tip-up latch allows the canopy to >>> be >>> > placed in a taxi position that creates a strong flow of air from >>> > propwash through the cabin at face level that allows the occupants to >>> > stay reasonable comfortable. Any RV is going to be warm during taxi in >>> > the summer, but I have never found the tip-up to be uncomfortable >>> enough >>> > >>> > to tempt me to trade away the fantastic visibility the tip-up offers. >>> > >>> > Now...as far as whether or not to prime the inside of the >>> airframe..... >>> > ;-) >>> > >>> > Sam Buchanan (~700 happy, comfortable hours in a tip-up RV-6) >>> > http://thervjournal.com >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >>> >> >> >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> This email has been scanned by the MessageLabs Email Security System >> on behalf of the London Business School community. >> For more information please visit http://www.messagelabs.com/email >> ______________________________________________________________________ >> >> >> -- >> 07/12/2005 >> > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re:Lying on Medical

November 23, 2005 - December 09, 2005

RV-Archive.digest.vol-rl