RV-Archive.digest.vol-rs
February 22, 2006 - March 02, 2006
Jerry Springer
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Remember Von Alexander? |
Kelby:
I remember seeing your father's airplane at Arlingtion but never met him.
I remember his post and all the help he offered.
I think it would be great to have a get together. It may be possible to
have a "Missing Man" formation at Arllington or Independence. If I can make
it, I am willing to take part as flight lead or wingman.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,839 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:51:27 -0800 (PST)
Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died
in the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on
its way home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list
and the help that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to
hear your thoughts about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought
about having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory
of my dad. Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would
anybody be up to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
THANKS!
Kelby L Alexander
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacment Canopy |
http://www.toddscanopies.com/
suppose to be thicker than the vans bubble.. and has other tint options I
think..
Danny..
----- Original Message -----
From: "NEIL HENDERSON" <neil459(at)btinternet.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: Replacment Canopy
>
> Listers
>
> I need to source a replacement canopy for an RV7. I've just taken over a
> quick build project and the original builder has made such a bodge job
> that I need to start again. I'll be ordering the metal parts from Vans but
> I seem to recall a thread about a year back on a less expensive source for
> the plexey. I've tried looking in the archives without success. Can anyone
> point me in the right direction?
>
>
> Neil Henderson RV9 Flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Hilger" <rvsixer(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich 72" Propeller |
Hi,
For sale, Sensenich 72" metal prop and factory spinner (polished aluminum),
Model 72FM8S16, cruise pitch, was on RV6A Lyc 0-360 180hp. Like new
condition, 570 hrs. Asking $1200 obo
What is "cruise pitch"? 85 inches? 87? Also, has it been repitched?
Mike Hilger
RV-6 N207AM, 800 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinions on antenae in VSOpinions on antenae in VS |
I tried the wingtip com setup, it worked but not well, especially if target receiver
was on oposite side of plane (I had mine in rt tip). I bit the bulit and
instaled the relatively expensive blade under the fusl, and it gives very good
service. Charlie H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Yes, I remember Von. I remember cheering him on when he was building.
When he won the award, His questions and insights on the list here.
He was one of the very first to suggest removable pins to hold the
canopee on, this and some other ideas i shamelessly copied into my RV-8.
Happy to hear his memory is kept alive, I for one remember staring at my
kit for a long time after he passed away, asking myself some serious
questions, i decided to built the darn thing, still at it for that matter.
Gert
kelby alexander wrote:
>
>
>Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died in
the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and the help
that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your thoughts
about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
>
>
>Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought about
having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory of my dad.
Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would anybody be
up to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
>
>
>THANKS!
>
>
>Kelby L Alexander
>
>
>Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Hi Kelby. I began construction on my RV-8A empennage in late '98 and many
of the guys on this list - Sam Buchanan, Bill Pagan, Kevin Horton, to mention
a few, really inspired me with their direct or indirect help with the many problems
confronting a novice builder. During those days, your father was also one of my
sources of inspiration; I felt some of the same frustrations he did; we were kindred
spirits and I was deeply saddened when I heard he was gone.
I still miss him............
Walt Shipley
Greeneville, TN
-----Original Message-----
>From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
>Sent: Feb 21, 2006 10:51 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
>
>
>Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died in
the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and the help
that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your thoughts
about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
>
>
>Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought about
having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory of my dad.
Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would anybody be
up to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
>
>
>THANKS!
>
>
>Kelby L Alexander
>
>
>Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Remember Von Alexander |
| From: | "Alexander, Don" <Don.Alexander(at)astenjohnson.com> |
Kelby,
What a blessing you must have been to your father! The two of you must
have shared some great father/son time as you went through the building
process. It sounds like your father managed to pass along to you both
the mechanical skills and strong motivation that is required for such a
worthy project. You are surrounded by a fantastic community with the RV
folks...you can count on doors to be opened to you because this
community looks after their own and will be proud to have you flying on
their wing when your ship is ready. I came along after your father
passed on, but some of his ideas have been utilized in my -8. In a
poetic way, he lives on...
Godspeed,
Don Alexander (Almost the same name too!)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Glen Matejcek <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Replacment Canopy |
Hi Neil-
See http://toddscanopies.com/
gm
From: "NEIL HENDERSON" <neil459(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: RV-List: Replacment Canopy
Listers
I need to source a replacement canopy for an RV7. I've just taken over a quick
build project and the original builder has made such a bodge job that I need to
start again. I'll be ordering the metal parts from Vans but I seem to recall
a thread about a year back on a less expensive source for the plexey. I've tried
looking in the archives without success. Can anyone point me in the right
direction?
Neil Henderson RV9 Flying
Glen Matejcek
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sensenich 72" Propeller |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
Hi Dale,
I forgot to ask you if you have the spacer that will go with the
prop?
Jim Nelson
St. Petersburg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Seeping fuel tank rivet |
During my annual inspection I noticed a little blue star-like stain around one
rivet on the right of the lower fuel tank. After a cleaning, sure the blue
stain was there again.
No, it does not drip, just the stain.
What is the best way to seal this seep??
Lothar from Colorado, 6A, 600 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Remember Von Alexander? |
Hi Kelby,
I spoke with your dad a couple times on the 8 project you both were working
on at the time. I had an abandon RV4 tail kit I purchased and that's where
it sat until I was inspired by a few folks, to include your dad.
Everyone proclaimed if you like the 4, you'll love the 8. So the 4 tail kit
was sold and the 8 tail kit was ordered. I unfortunately didn't get to share
my excitement with some due to there passing. In a sport that this large
community we know of the dangers, love and excitement all in the same token
that we share. You my friend are among the finest people that share a
passion of creation and completion of dreams.
Please keep us posted on your events and progress of your new 8.
Bruce Gray
RV8 Fuse
#81745
>From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
>Date: Tue, 21 Feb 2006 19:51:27 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died
>in the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on
>its way home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list
>and the help that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to
>hear your thoughts about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
>
>
>Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought
>about having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory
>of my dad. Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would
>anybody be up to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
>
>
>THANKS!
>
>
>Kelby L Alexander
>
>
>Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
I have heard of others creating a slight vacuum in the tank and then adding
some thinned down proseal. Would have to be pretty clean to start with.
Others will have better details
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: L Klingmuller
Date: 02/22/06 08:59:39
Subject: RV-List: Seeping fuel tank rivet
net>
During my annual inspection I noticed a little blue star-like stain around
one rivet on the right of the lower fuel tank. After a cleaning, sure the
blue stain was there again.
No, it does not drip, just the stain.
What is the best way to seal this seep??
Lothar from Colorado, 6A, 600 hrs.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Kelby,
I didn't know your Dad, but would be happy to attend a fly-in at
Independence, I'm just up the road at Aurora. I am sure many from the local EAA
chapters, Twin Oaks, Independence, Molalla would have guys who knew him. He was
fortunate to have a son such as yourself.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died
in the
Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and the
help
that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your
thoughts
about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Porter" <december29(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Kelby,
I remember both your Dad and your airplane. His positive attitude was
neat. We only talked for a few minutes (you know fly-ins) but I remember
him being real "get it finished, you'll love it". I think yours had the
chromed canopy bow and the quality of the airplane was unreal. I saw it at
the Scappoose flyin. Can't believe it's been that long. I actually
firesleeved all my hoses in my -8 thinking about your dad. I have an
inverted oil tank so making all those hoses fit was a chore. We lived in
Newberg, but moved to Atlanta a year ago.
Our son is your age and I remember thinking that I wished he was as
interested in the work as you are. You can be sure lots of guys remember
your dad. Be sensitive to your mom's wishes as you pursue your flying
dream. Put the dates for the flyin on the list. If mine is finished (still
in Newberg) we will be there. Gunning for this Oshkosh.
Good Wishes,
John Porter
#80002
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Tasker <retasker(at)optonline.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Replacment Canopy |
Great canopies and a very good price. Sadly, he doesn't do RV6, 7 or 9s
(side-by-side) yet.
Dick Tasker
Sportypilot wrote:
>
>http://www.toddscanopies.com/
>
>suppose to be thicker than the vans bubble.. and has other tint options I
>think..
>
>
>Danny..
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "NEIL HENDERSON" <neil459(at)btinternet.com>
>To:
>Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 12:22 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Replacment Canopy
>
>
>
>
>>
>>Listers
>>
>>I need to source a replacement canopy for an RV7. I've just taken over a
>>quick build project and the original builder has made such a bodge job
>>that I need to start again. I'll be ordering the metal parts from Vans but
>>I seem to recall a thread about a year back on a less expensive source for
>>the plexey. I've tried looking in the archives without success. Can anyone
>>point me in the right direction?
>>
>>
>>Neil Henderson RV9 Flying
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Remember Von Alexander? |
Kelby:
I did not know your Father, but I have a son who I fly with occasionally,
and who is an avid fan of experimental aircraft and flying in general. I've
often thought about the dangers of flying and how hard it would be to lose
someone to this passionate sport of ours. I cannot imagine what you have
been through, and I admire you for coming forth publicly to gain some
insight about your Father and to help the community grieve through a
gathering. I live in West Linn and am building in a hanger at Lenhardt,
just 10 miles from Aurora, so count me in on supporting the July get
together.
Thanks for you courage,
John Jessen
40328
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kelby alexander
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 7:51 PM
Subject: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died
in the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on
its way home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list
and the help that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to
hear your thoughts about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought
about having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory
of my dad. Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would
anybody be up to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
THANKS!
Kelby L Alexander
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Kelby
I never had the opportunity to meet your dad personally but I could tell what a
fine person he was from his many helpful postings to this list. I was just getting
started with the fuselage of my RV-6 slow build in 1999 and poured over
the list every evening to look for helpful hints and ideas, many of which came
from your dad.
Your dad's accident prompted many builders, myself included, to be doubly careful
with our firewall forward installations and in protecting fuel and oil lines
in our projects. I would make every effort to attend a fly in honoring your
dad. Keep in mind that July 10 is Monday and that could cause problems for some
people.
All my best to you and to your family.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 181 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
>
>
>
> Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died in
> the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
> home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and the help
> that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your thoughts
> about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
>
>
>
>
> Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought about
> having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory of my dad.
> Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would anybody be up
> to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
>
>
>
>
> THANKS!
>
>
>
>
> Kelby L Alexander
>
>
>
> Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv6fly(at)bresnan.net |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
kelby alexander wrote:
>
>Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died in
the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and the help
that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your thoughts
about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
>
>
>Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought about
having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory of my dad.
Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would anybody be
up to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
>
>
>THANKS!
>
>Kelby L Alexander
>
Kelby,
I joined the list around 1995-96 after I had my RV6 flying and
participated for around 4 years trying to help other builders and just
visiting about all things RV. I remember when your dad first joined,
he was so enthused, and when he announced that he was ready to fly. It
didn't seem like it took you and your dad very long to build the 8. I
interacted with a lot of RV guys in the years I was involved with the
list and RVs n general. Almost everyone was a great guy but I think
your dad stood out among them all for me. I think it was his contagious
excitement about everything RV that really stuck in my mind. I never
met your dad but I think his online persona was probably just like he
was in real life. In this case, that would be a very good thing. I
remember thinking back in those days that "here's a guy I'd really like
to meet. What a nice guy and nice airplane." I, like a lot of those
guys who "met" your dad through the list were devastated when he was
killed. It pretty much broke our hearts. I'm tearing up now just
thinking about it.
My best to you and your family.
Bob Skinner
Buffalo, WY
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
Your approach will depend on where the offending rivet is. If it is one
of the rear baffle-skin rivets, I'd suggest taking the whole tank off
the plane, drilling out the offending rivet (and several either side of
it) and cleaning out and re-riveting the hole with more proseal. If
it's a rib rivet that can be gotten to through the inspection hole, then
try re-sealing it with more proseal. If you cannot get to it, then try
the thinned proseal/ vacuum trick.
One thing to be aware of is that tank leaks are lie roof leaks. Fuel
can get below the proseal in one place and come out a rivet several
inches away. Just because water is leaking into your kitchen, it could
be entering the roof some distance away. Same idea.
Jeff Point
RV-6 with previously leaky tanks, now fixed
Milwaukee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
I was just beginning my RV-6 project at the time, but had been a long
time lurker and knew your father from the RV List. Like many others,
after the accident I had some serious second thoughts about this whole
business, but plowed ahead, and I'm glad I did. There were a lot of
discussions on this list at the time, and I believe that an awfully lot
of good things came about as a result. I picked the engine for my plane
based in large part on some very frank discussions regarding the engine
in your dad's plane and it's possible role in the accident.
I'd love to attend the fly-in but I'm in the midwest. Oshkosh is just a
couple weeks after this- if you're coming you might think about a
gathering there. You'd certainly have no trouble getting people to attend.
Jeff Point
RV-6
Milwaukee
kelby alexander wrote:
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Opinions on antenae in VS |
The original builder installed it in the VS and he had to cut notches in the
sides of the skin on the top (small notches) where the antenna will exit. I
could probably cover the notches and change it's location but just am not to
that point yet.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 1:26 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Opinions on antenae in VS
>
>
> Have to ask - why not hide it?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill and Tami
> Britton
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:01 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Opinions on antenae in VS
>
>
>
> My VS on my -10 will have a cats whisker VOR/ILS/GS antenna on the top
> of
> it.
>
> Bill Britton
> RV-10 Tailcone
> #40137
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
> To:
> Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 3:52 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Opinions on antenae in VS
>
>
>>
>>
>>> Many people seem to do the nav & com in the wingtips which seems to
> work
>>> well.
>>
>> I am not sure I have heard of people happy with wingtip comm antenna.
>> VOR yes.
>>
>>
>> Ron Lee
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pitot tube group buy |
Wish you had a heated version.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:07 AM
Subject: RV-List: pitot tube group buy
>
>
> Ok fellow builders, I have had several inquiries about whether or not I
> would discount my pitot tube kits for a group buy. Since I am currently
> participating in the Hooker harness group buy I can hardly say no. So
> heres the deal...I will discount the kit by 25% for a group buy of 10 or
> more, limited to the stock on hand. Anybody interested should just call or
> email me directly and add your name to the list. As soon as I hit the 10
> mark I will ship them out. Those interested can have a look at the kits at
> the following link:
> http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/Other%20Products.htm
>
> Cheers...
> Evan Johnson
> www.evansaviationproducts.com
> (530) 351-1776 cell
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
| Subject: | still looking to purchase a flying RV-4 |
Hi All,
I am still looking for a very nice RV-4 to purchase.
Preferences are: Injected O-360, C/S, fit for a tall
pilot, high quality build and maintenance, simple VFR
panel. Other combinations considered.
thanks, and I'd really appreciate anyone spreading the
word !!
--
Larry E. James
Seattle, WA
206-633-3111
larry(at)ncproto.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
| From: | Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
I had a similar problem on my RV-4. The seeping rivet was on the bottom.
My solution was to drain the tank, drill out the bad rivet and replace with
one of Van's sealed blind rivets with a dab of proseal on it just before
installation. No seeping after 2 years and 250 hours.
Doug Weiler
Hudson, WI
N722DW
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil" <phatphill(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
A quick easy and cheap way to fix it with Click Bond repair patch.
I put one on my tank several years ago and it hasn't leaked a drop since.
ACS P/N 04-06015 $11.95
----- Original Message -----
From: "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:53 AM
Subject: RV-List: Seeping fuel tank rivet
>
> During my annual inspection I noticed a little blue star-like stain around
one rivet on the right of the lower fuel tank. After a cleaning, sure the
blue stain was there again.
> No, it does not drip, just the stain.
> What is the best way to seal this seep??
> Lothar from Colorado, 6A, 600 hrs.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
On 21 Feb 2006, at 22:51, kelby alexander wrote:
>
> Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander.
> He died in the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in
> July of 1999 on its way home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he
> really LOVED this list and the help that everybody gave him. If you
> remember him, I would love to hear your thoughts about him and our
> RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
>
Hi Kelby,
It's good to find you here. I've been building my RV-8 for what
seems like forever, and I well remember Von. He was a great guy. We
all helped each other via the list - he helped many people, and he
got a lot of ideas and assistance from the other people here. It was
a terrible shock when we learned about the accident, but not nearly
as bad as for you. It felt like we had lost a family member, and in
such a strange way too.
If you learned anything from your dad, you'll do just fine. Good
luck with your project. You can check out the RV-8 Yahoo Group too,
if you like:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/
Take care,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving |
Just received my Van's Data plate and fuel caps back from Aircraft Engravers
and they are works of art. Wayne turned them around for me within a week
for my upcoming RV8 DAR inspection. I highly recommend Wayne to anyone
considering engraving needs.
John D'Onofrio
(_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com) )
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
L Klingmuller wrote:
>
>During my annual inspection I noticed a little blue star-like stain around one
rivet on the right of the lower fuel tank. After a cleaning, sure the blue
stain was there again.
>No, it does not drip, just the stain.
>What is the best way to seal this seep??
>Lothar from Colorado, 6A, 600 hrs.
>
>
I used thinned proseal on one rivet that leaked air when I pressure
tested. You do have to be careful not to use too much vacuum or leave it
applied too long or it will suck a 'hole' in the new sealant.
Mooney drivers have had luck with a wicking sealer (not sure of what
they use; might be the Locktite mentioned below), pulled in with a
slight vacuum like described earlier for thinned proseal.
I haven't used it, but others have said they had good luck with Locktite
Green wicking thread lock.
Good luck...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matt Johnson" <matt(at)n559rv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
So what caused the crash? I think some of us new guys would like to learn from
this tragedy as well...
- Matt
-----Original Message-----
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:26:00 +0000
Subject: Re: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
>
> Kelby
>
> I never had the opportunity to meet your dad personally but I could
> tell what a fine person he was from his many helpful postings to this
> list. I was just getting started with the fuselage of my RV-6 slow
> build in 1999 and poured over the list every evening to look for
> helpful hints and ideas, many of which came from your dad.
>
> Your dad's accident prompted many builders, myself included, to be
> doubly careful with our firewall forward installations and in
> protecting fuel and oil lines in our projects. I would make every
> effort to attend a fly in honoring your dad. Keep in mind that July 10
> is Monday and that could cause problems for some people.
>
> All my best to you and to your family.
>
> --
> Harry Crosby
> RV-6 N16CX, 181 hours
>
> -------------- Original message ----------------------
> From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He
> died in
> > the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999
> on its way
> > home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and
> the help
> > that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear
> your thoughts
> > about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I
> thought about
> > having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory
> of my dad.
> > Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would
> anybody be up
> > to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > THANKS!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Kelby L Alexander
> >
> >
> >
> > Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving |
how much does it cost ? for those three items.. ?
Danny..
----- Original Message -----
From: <Tailgummer(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving
>
> Just received my Van's Data plate and fuel caps back from Aircraft
> Engravers
> and they are works of art. Wayne turned them around for me within a week
> for my upcoming RV8 DAR inspection. I highly recommend Wayne to anyone
> considering engraving needs.
> John D'Onofrio
> (_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com) )
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving |
Their prices are on their web page. www.engravers.net
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sportypilot
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:42 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving
how much does it cost ? for those three items.. ?
Danny..
----- Original Message -----
From: <Tailgummer(at)aol.com>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:40 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving
>
> Just received my Van's Data plate and fuel caps back from Aircraft
> Engravers
> and they are works of art. Wayne turned them around for me within a week
> for my upcoming RV8 DAR inspection. I highly recommend Wayne to anyone
> considering engraving needs.
> John D'Onofrio
> (_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com) )
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fiberglass canopy skirt from scratch |
Guys, thought you might be interested in how my skirt turned out. After much
headscratching and pondering the alternatives I ended up using the
posterboard and packing tape method. Not as decorative as the Diet Coke
cartons suggested below by Kyle, but I made it work anyway. I slit the
posterboard in quite a few places to get the curves I needed using first
little strips of packing tape to secure the slits, then larger pieces to
cover it all up as a non-stick surface to lay up on. At first I thought I
might need to make the skirt in two pieces but ended up doing it in one
piece... worked great! If you're interested here's the story.
http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Airframe/airframe.htm#CanopySkirt
Of course I have a bit of filling and lots of sanding to do now. Thanks for
all the suggestions!
Randy Lervold
>
> You could try tapeing thin cardboard between the canopy and fuselage. My
> cardboard of preference (from making the empennage fairing years ago)
> comes
> from Diet Coke 12-pack cartons...
>
> Several pieces of cardboard, a little packing tape, and volia, female
> mold...
>
> Alternately, you could get yourself some Monokote or similar shrink film,
> cut it to rough shape, tape the ends to the plexi and fuselage, and shrink
> the stuff into the shape you want. Might even work. (Note- put a layer
> of
> packing tape between the monokote and your canopy, or risk color
> transfer)...
>
> KB
>
>
>>
>> Fiberglass gurus,
>>
>> After trying to get the metal skirt to fit on my RV-3 I'm giving up --
>> I'm
>> convinced God just didn't intend aluminum to be used for compound curves,
>> fiberglass on the other hand is perfectly suited for that. No worries
>> with
>> laying it up and such (West Systems and 9 oz crowfoot e-glass), but what
>> I'd
>> appreciate some ideas on are how to craft a molding surface. I will pop
>> rivet my tipover plexi bubble to the frame in every other hole, which I
>> will
>> later drill out, so there won't need to be an clecos and thus I can layup
>> onto the plexi. But what do I use to create a form from the plexi down to
>> the fuselage, or to bridge the gap along the sides? This is way too much
>> area for the traditional modeling clay we use for intersection fairings.
>>
>> If I use any sort of tape it will create an uneven layup and require lots
>> of
>> sanding and filling, something I'd rather avoid. I was thinking of using
>> expandable foam around the front and rear sections (won't work on the
>> sides)
>> and then sculpting it. Seems like I heard that the cans of foam you can
>> buy
>> at Home Depot aren't good because they contain formaldehyde, not sure why
>> that's bad though.
>> Spruce has Poly-Cell 100 Polyurethane Foam
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/polycel.php
>> and Liquid "X30" Foam
>> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/cmpages/x30foam.php
>>
>> Anyone had an experience with either of these? When using foam, do you
>> lay
>> up directly on it, or coat it with something first?
>>
>> And lastly, what would be a good way to create a surface on the sides?
>> Here's a pic of what I'm dealing with...
>> http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Gallery/DSC_0899.jpg
>>
>> Thanks!
>> Randy Lervold
>> www.rv-3.com
>> www.rv-8.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV Data plate and fuel cap engraving |
The data plate engraving was $26 and each fuel cap was $25. I used curved
arch lettering on my caps otherwise I believe it would be $20 each cap . The
final result was just superb. He uses a vibro-peening technique for the
stainless data plate (I supplied), and fills the engraving cuts with paint (your
choice of color)and then a clearcoat finish.
I have no affiliation with Aircraft Engravers other than being very
satisfied with results.
John
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Seeping fuel tank rivet |
Good Morning,
This approach worked very well for me, too.
Steve Soule
RV-6A N227RV ~390 hours
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Weiler
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:15 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Seeping fuel tank rivet
I had a similar problem on my RV-4. The seeping rivet was on the bottom. My
solution was to drain the tank, drill out the bad rivet and replace with one
of Van's sealed blind rivets with a dab of proseal on it just before
installation. No seeping after 2 years and 250 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Remember Von Alexander? |
I remember your father from earlier days on the list. Never met him as I was here
in Indiana many miles away. I was rebuilding an RV-4 at the time and always
respected his comments on the list. He seemed like such a cool guy. Truly. Always
very positive...
After his (still unbelieveable) accident a lot of us took extra care in examining
our planes for safety issues, thinking that if it could happen to Von then
it could surely happen to any of us. He seemed very careful.
I still think of installing a fire supression system to this day because of him
and that accident, and a friend and I were looking to market one to the experimental
ranks until my friend passed away too (but not in an aircraft fire).
You know, I think I will go ahead with that installation. I was concerned with
the roughly 8 pounds of weight it would add -seems trivial when compared to
being on fire.
For those of you who don't know about all of this -look in the archives.
Scott
N4ZW
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
dcw(at)mnwing.org wrote:
> .......My solution was to drain the tank, drill out the bad rivet and replace
with one of Van's sealed blind rivets with a dab of proseal on it..............Doug
Weiler.Hudson, WI.N722DW
Doug,
How did you deal with the drilled out rivet shop head and (possibly) loose drill
shavings that must have fallen into the tank?
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14336#14336
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pitot tube group buy |
Hi Bill, I was working on a CNC milled version of a cessna heated tube but
kind of put the project on hold. A couple of others came available so I was
not sure there would be enough interest. My target price for the tube and
the mount with all of the hardware is around $350....I guess I should finish
my work up and see.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:12 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: pitot tube group buy
>
> Wish you had a heated version.
>
> Bill
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
> To:
> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:07 AM
> Subject: RV-List: pitot tube group buy
>
>
> >
> >
> > Ok fellow builders, I have had several inquiries about whether or not I
> > would discount my pitot tube kits for a group buy. Since I am currently
> > participating in the Hooker harness group buy I can hardly say no. So
> > heres the deal...I will discount the kit by 25% for a group buy of 10 or
> > more, limited to the stock on hand. Anybody interested should just call
or
> > email me directly and add your name to the list. As soon as I hit the 10
> > mark I will ship them out. Those interested can have a look at the kits
at
> > the following link:
> > http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/Other%20Products.htm
> >
> > Cheers...
> > Evan Johnson
> > www.evansaviationproducts.com
> > (530) 351-1776 cell
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: RV-List Digest: 39 Msgs - 02/22/06 |
| From: | John Allen <fliier(at)altrionet.com> |
CC:
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Seeping fuel tank rivet |
| From: | Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
.com>
>
>
> dcw(at)mnwing.org wrote:
>> .......My solution was to drain the tank, drill out the bad rivet and replace
>> with one of Van's sealed blind rivets with a dab of proseal on
>> it..............Doug Weiler.Hudson, WI.N722DW
>
>
> Doug,
> How did you deal with the drilled out rivet shop head and (possibly) loose
> drill shavings that must have fallen into the tank?
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
The technique is to use a 3/32 bit and partially drill into the rivet to the
point where you can then snap off the head using a 3/32 pin punch. Then
using the punch I tapped into the rivet to the point where the shop portion
of the rivet fell out (into the tank). Granted now that small part was in
the tank and it actually stayed there for quite some time. Later, I had to
remove this tank anyway because of a leaking root cover and that little
piece was still there just laying in the bottom inboard part of the tank. I
then removed it. I suppose that might have been the downside to this
method, but no harm done.
Doug
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
Cc: n41va(at)blazemail.com
| Subject: | Vons Alexander's Memorial Plane |
I sent this email once, but didnt get any feedback on it, so I think I might have
sent it to the wrong address. So I apologize if I send it twice.
I am going to start building an RV-8 in my dads memory this summer.It is going
to be a "Memorial Plane." It will be dedicated to any Rv pilots that have died
doing what they love. All of their names and tail numbers will be airbrushed
somewhere on the plane as well as those who have donated their help, tools or
money no matter how large or small will all get thier names airbrushed on the
plane. In order to pay for this, my family and I will be holding various fund
raising events. For instance, we have started to put together custom flight suits
with your tail number, type of rv, piolts name and the date of your first
flight all embrordered on them. The proceedes will go towards the memorial plane.
Please let me know what you guys think about this idea and if you can make
it to the Fly-In on July 1st. You are more than welcome to email me at N41VA(at)blazemail.com
or justreply to this message.I look forward to hearing your feedback,
thank you.
Kelby ALexander
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net> |
| Subject: | Re: pitot tube group buy |
Would definitely be interested if you can finalize them.
Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: pitot tube group buy
>
>
> Hi Bill, I was working on a CNC milled version of a cessna heated tube but
> kind of put the project on hold. A couple of others came available so I
> was
> not sure there would be enough interest. My target price for the tube and
> the mount with all of the hardware is around $350....I guess I should
> finish
> my work up and see.
> Evan Johnson
> www.evansaviationproducts.com
> (530)247-0375
> (530)351-1776 cell
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Bill and Tami Britton" <william(at)gbta.net>
> To:
> Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2006 4:12 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: pitot tube group buy
>
>
>>
>> Wish you had a heated version.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net>
>> To:
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2006 9:07 AM
>> Subject: RV-List: pitot tube group buy
>>
>>
>> >
>> >
>> > Ok fellow builders, I have had several inquiries about whether or not I
>> > would discount my pitot tube kits for a group buy. Since I am currently
>> > participating in the Hooker harness group buy I can hardly say no. So
>> > heres the deal...I will discount the kit by 25% for a group buy of 10
>> > or
>> > more, limited to the stock on hand. Anybody interested should just call
> or
>> > email me directly and add your name to the list. As soon as I hit the
>> > 10
>> > mark I will ship them out. Those interested can have a look at the kits
> at
>> > the following link:
>> > http://www.evansaviationproducts.com/Other%20Products.htm
>> >
>> > Cheers...
>> > Evan Johnson
>> > www.evansaviationproducts.com
>> > (530) 351-1776 cell
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Lapsley R & Sandra E. Caldwell" <caldwel(at)ictransnet.com> |
| Subject: | Piper pitot cartridge heater |
A few days ago someone posted a message with the Hotwat part # for a
piper pitot heater element.
I seem to have lost the message and can't find anything in the archive.
Can you repost or send me an Email.
Roger
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
I was building at the same time Von was as well.
Until a computer crash where I lost some old emails, I
had saved a few emails that we exchanged off list
about various topics. His responses were well thought
out, and you can tell he takes the time to write
emails, and did his best to help out others. Never
got to see the airplane, but remember the day he
passed like it was yesterday.
I think the memorial plane is a great idea. I find it
admirable that you would build another plane in his
memory, even though it was involved in his passing.
I'm sure you'll have no problem getting help with that
one. The RV community will most definately be
involved during and after the construction process.
Best of luck with the project.
Paul Besing
--- kelby alexander wrote:
>
>
>
>
> Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember
> Von Alexander. He died in the Rv-8 that me (his son)
> and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
> home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really
> LOVED this list and the help that everybody gave
> him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your
> thoughts about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance
> to see it.
>
>
>
>
> Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's
> feedback on. I thought about having a "Fly in Lunch"
> at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory of my
> dad. Maybe around the 10th of July (when the
> accident occured). Would anybody be up to flying
> their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
>
>
>
>
> THANKS!
>
>
>
>
> Kelby L Alexander
>
>
>
> Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
Cc: n41va(at)blazemail.com
| Subject: | Memorial plane, Please read |
Let me clarify my goal and my intentions with this "memorial airplane." I had a
few VERY good ideas given to me (thanks John Jessen). First off, I am going to
focus not on the fact that these pilots have passesd away doing what they love.
But I am going to focus on the love they had for flying and especially the
love they had for RV's. So here is the plan:
1. The plane will be built entirely on donations, and money raised thru various
fund raising events.
2. The plane WILL NOT BE MY PERSONAL PLANE and I will not profit from it in any
way form or shape.
3. Every detail on the plane will be a community effort, paint scheme and colors,
interior, everything will be ran thru this RV list and those who have donated
whatever they can, small or large.
4. When it is finished, it will immediatly be donated to the EAA and be flown from
one chapter to the next. So this would be an EAA plane when it is finished.
5. It will be built to give the gift of flight to those who do not of access to
a plane. (I grew up in the back of an RV and those are my best memories).
6. Instead of having the names of the pilots we have lost, the plane will travel
with a book with every RV-ers flight stories, experiences and advice to Young
Eagles. And as it travels around it will gain more and more experiences and
stories.
I mentioned one way this will be paid for are Custom Flight Suits that my family
and I are making, I have had good interest in them so far. They will have your
name embrordered on the left chest, the date of your first flight and the model
(RV-6-8-9 etc..) on the right hand sideand your tail number on the back.We
can also put 2 patches from Vans, and if you wish aLycoming patch as well.They
will be VERY nice and very high quality. they can come in Navy Blue, Kahki,
Olive Green or Black with any color of embrodery. Each one will cost my family
and I $90.00 so anything over $90 will go towards the cost of the plane. Please
email me if you would like to order one for you or a friend. The $90.00 includes
shipping.
So I really hope this idea gets a good response. Please let me know what you guys
think and give me your ideas and feedback. And like I said this will be paid
for by donations. So email me if you would like to donate towards this project,
I have a SEPERATE bank account set up and SEPERATE pay-pal account set up
for this. I will keep you guys up to date on the progress, but our first step
is a set of tools (That will be donated to The Young Eagles as well) I figure
between $1,200-$1,500. Then we will purchase the tail kit, as soon......So email
me if you would like to donate, not only money buttools, avionics, radios,
a hanger spaceto build it in. Even something as small as a little bag of rivets
would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you guys very much for your time.
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | i39 Flyin Door Prizes |
>
>Just a quick side note, Abby from Flightline Interiors just. Add to the
>list a custom made canopy cover gift certificate!!
>
>
More thanks to the following: we now have a carbon fiber RV-8 access door
along with two copies of Kitlog via Paul. Thanks again for the help in
making this fllyin so much fun.......at least from this end:-)
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
I would like to say thank you to Paul Besing at Aeroware Enterprises, LLC www.kitlog.com . He has made a donation of a free copy of kitlog pro.
Thanks Paul!
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Greg@itmack" <greg(at)itmack.com> |
| Subject: | Vans wingtip nav antenna |
Does anyone know how well Vans low cost wingtip nav antenna works?
Thanks
Greg RV8
82070
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
I need to replace my Odyssey PC680. After several years it is starting to show
signs of being tired. I noticed that on ebay there are PC680's for $57.00 from
one source and $62.00 from another.
Has anyone bought from these sources and are there any complaints??
Jerry Calvert
RV6 N296JC
Edmond Ok
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PC680's on ebay |
What are the sources.
We am on our second Odsey (The first one was still OK but after 5 years we
decided to give it a break) I would go with the cheaper one assuming they had a
valid track record.
Rollie and Rod
RV6A 799RQ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PC680's on ebay |
I bought one a year or two ago from the seller Ptron1 in Jacksonville, FL.
The battery arrived quickly and appeared to be a fresh battery based on the
date stamp on the battery.
No complaints here.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:28 PM
Subject: RV-List: PC680's on ebay
>
> I need to replace my Odyssey PC680. After several years it is starting to
> show signs of being tired. I noticed that on ebay there are PC680's for
> $57.00 from one source and $62.00 from another.
>
> Has anyone bought from these sources and are there any complaints??
>
> Jerry Calvert
> RV6 N296JC
> Edmond Ok
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
I would like to think Bill VanDane, he has offered to donate a full set of lights
for the Memorial RV-8. Thank you so much Bill!
www.creativeair.com
Kelby Alexander
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
I would love it if you could make the Fly-In. We have decided on July 1st at 10.
A.M. at the Independence Airport. Please let me know if you can make it for
sure. We are having some trophies made, Best Paint, Best Interior, Best of Show.
I will wait to hear from you, thanks a lot and I look forward to meeting you!
Kelby Alexander
--- HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 19:26:00 +0000
Subject: Re: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
-- RV-List message posted by: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Kelby
I never had the opportunity to meet your dad personally but I could tell what a
fine person he was from his many helpful postings to this list. I was just getting
started with the fuselage of my RV-6 slow build in 1999 and poured over
the list every evening to look for helpful hints and ideas, many of which came
from your dad.
Your dad's accident prompted many builders, myself included, to be doubly careful
with our firewall forward installations and in protecting fuel and oil lines
in our projects. I would make every effort to attend a fly in honoring your
dad. Keep in mind that July 10 is Monday and that could cause problems for some
people.
All my best to you and to your family.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 181 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kelby alexander n41va(at)blazemail.com
-- RV-List message posted by: kelby alexander n41va(at)blazemail.com
Hey guys, I was just wondering if you guys remember Von Alexander. He died in
the Rv-8 that me (his son) and him built. It crashed in July of 1999 on its way
home from the Arlington Airshow. I know he really LOVED this list and the help
that everybody gave him. If you remember him, I would love to hear your thoughts
about him and our RV-8 if you had a chance to see it.
Also I had another idea that I wanted your guy's feedback on. I thought about
having a "Fly in Lunch" at the Independence Oregon Airport in memory of my dad.
Maybe around the 10th of July (when the accident occured). Would anybody be up
to flying their rv's and join in on it? Just a thought.
THANKS!
Kelby L Alexander
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
I would love to see you at the Fly In. It will be on July 1st at 10A.M. at the
Independence Airport. Please let me know if you can be there, with or without
your plane. We are having trophies made for best interior, best paint and best
of show. Ill wait to hear from you
Thanks!
kelby Alexander
--- "John Porter" december29(at)bellsouth.net wrote:
From: "John Porter" december29(at)bellsouth.net
Date: Wed, 22 Feb 2006 13:03:43 -0500
Subject: Re: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
-- RV-List message posted by: "John Porter" december29(at)bellsouth.net
Kelby,
I remember both your Dad and your airplane. His positive attitude was
neat. We only talked for a few minutes (you know fly-ins) but I remember
him being real "get it finished, you'll love it". I think yours had the
chromed canopy bow and the quality of the airplane was unreal. I saw it at
the Scappoose flyin. Can't believe it's been that long. I actually
firesleeved all my hoses in my -8 thinking about your dad. I have an
inverted oil tank so making all those hoses fit was a chore. We lived in
Newberg, but moved to Atlanta a year ago.
Our son is your age and I remember thinking that I wished he was as
interested in the work as you are. You can be sure lots of guys remember
your dad. Be sensitive to your mom's wishes as you pursue your flying
dream. Put the dates for the flyin on the list. If mine is finished (still
in Newberg) we will be there. Gunning for this Oshkosh.
Good Wishes,
John Porter
#80002
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> |
Opps... the URL is www.creativair.com
;o)
----- Original Message -----
From: "kelby alexander" <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Thank you!
I would like to think Bill VanDane, he has offered to donate a full set of
lights for the Memorial RV-8. Thank you so much Bill!
www.creativeair.com
Kelby Alexander
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: PC680's on ebay |
I have bought 2 of them from 2 different sources. Both had prompt delivery
of fresh batteries. Great price!
--
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
On 2/23/06, Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
>
> I bought one a year or two ago from the seller Ptron1 in Jacksonville, FL.
> The battery arrived quickly and appeared to be a fresh battery based on
> the
> date stamp on the battery.
>
> No complaints here.
>
> KB
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
> To:
> Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:28 PM
> Subject: RV-List: PC680's on ebay
>
>
> >
> > I need to replace my Odyssey PC680. After several years it is starting
> to
> > show signs of being tired. I noticed that on ebay there are PC680's for
> > $57.00 from one source and $62.00 from another.
> >
> > Has anyone bought from these sources and are there any complaints??
> >
> > Jerry Calvert
> > RV6 N296JC
> > Edmond Ok
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: PC680's on ebay |
I was pleased with both the battery and the delivery of my PC680. I believe
it came from Odyssey World but not sure and the receipt is in the hangar.
The main thing with eBay is to look at the seller's rating in the box in the
upper right of the ad. Also, do they take Pay Pal. No Western Union!
Wally Hunt
Rockford, IL
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
I had to stuff things in around the seat to cut down on the freezing cold air
coming in from various places overcomming the anemic heat source yesterday. Had
to come down to 11500 ( taking advantage of the 70mp tail winds), and legs still
shaking. 2 questions. Anybody tried adding a 2nd heat muff on the rt exaust,
and 2, is it practicle to try and cover the inspection panels for the flap
actuators. I have insulated the fluting on the baagage bulkhead, but still get
lots of cold air. I got the drawings for the actuator covers, but dont see that
as a good seal. Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
Hi Charlie,
I bought an insulated USAF flight suit (Nomex and never worn, $100) and wear
felt lined boots, gloves and a hat.
Stephen Soule, RV-6A N227RV
Highgate, Vermont
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Freezin high up in drafty 6A.
I had to stuff things in around the seat to cut down on the freezing cold
air coming in from various places overcomming the anemic heat source
yesterday.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
Charlie,
A lot of the cold air may be coming up between your legs from the opening
for the control stick. I get a lot of cold air there - nice in the summer,
but brutal in cold weather. I have seen various schemes to keep the cold
air from entering underneath the floor pan through the aileron push tube
holes in side of fuselage.
I am considering using a control stick boot to at least cut down on the air
flow.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Freezin high up in drafty 6A.
>
> I had to stuff things in around the seat to cut down on the freezing cold
> air coming in from various places overcomming the anemic heat source
> yesterday. Had to come down to 11500 ( taking advantage of the 70mp tail
> winds), and legs still shaking. 2 questions. Anybody tried adding a 2nd
> heat muff on the rt exaust, and 2, is it practicle to try and cover the
> inspection panels for the flap actuators. I have insulated the fluting on
> the baagage bulkhead, but still get lots of cold air. I got the drawings
> for the actuator covers, but dont see that as a good seal. Charlie Heathco
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna placement |
Fellow Listers,
I have a Comant bent whip com antenna that I am planning for the underside of my
6A.
I know that I want to keep it away from the exhausts so I was initially planning
on installing it in the first bay outboard of the elevator pushrod tunnel -
right under the copilot seat.
Where are the rest of you putting it?
Ralph Capen
RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done/to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com> |
| Subject: | Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
I had the same problem 4 years ago when I flew to Rochester, MN. It was
10F below when I landed. My daughter and I were dawn cold.
Later I added a second heat muff, built aileron boots to cover the push
tube exit hole. I also insulated the panel where the flap horn exits.
I have a slider and I placed some thin weather stripping at the very
edge of the back of the canopy.
Another thing is the air coming in along the side of the canopy. A
simple fix is to get some 1/2" foam pipe insulation, and cut to lengths
that will sit between the front part of the slider and the locking block
in back. Simply put these in place after you have the canopy closed and
are ready to taxi.
After these fixes we flew very comfortably when temperatures were below
0 F.
PS I don't recommend flying when temperatures at 10 below F.
John L. Danielson
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 8:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Freezin high up in drafty 6A.
I had to stuff things in around the seat to cut down on the freezing
cold air coming in from various places overcomming the anemic heat
source yesterday. Had to come down to 11500 ( taking advantage of the
70mp tail winds), and legs still shaking. 2 questions. Anybody tried
adding a 2nd heat muff on the rt exaust, and 2, is it practicle to try
and cover the inspection panels for the flap actuators. I have insulated
the fluting on the baagage bulkhead, but still get lots of cold air. I
got the drawings for the actuator covers, but dont see that as a good
seal. Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Knicholas2(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
There is an amazing amount of air that flows from around the edges of the
canopy - especially the rear area. I put weather strip around the canopy, boots
around the airleron control rods thru the fusealge, and boots on the stick.
The combination made an enormous difference.
Kim Nicholas
RV9A
Auburn, WA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
At 08:20 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote:
>
>I had to stuff things in around the seat to cut down on the freezing cold
>air coming in from various places overcomming the anemic heat source
>yesterday. Had to come down to 11500 ( taking advantage of the 70mp tail
>winds), and legs still shaking. 2 questions. Anybody tried adding a 2nd
>heat muff on the rt exaust, and 2, is it practicle to try and cover the
>inspection panels for the flap actuators. I have insulated the fluting on
>the baagage bulkhead, but still get lots of cold air. I got the drawings
>for the actuator covers, but dont see that as a good seal. Charlie Heathco
My 6A had a second heat muff and it did nothing but negatively impact
cooling air exiting the airplane (with oil temp problems). I now just
use one heat muff and it is probably better.
I also have the drafty issues and fixing those is among the best
remedies (along with Stephen's warm clothing comment).
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
I just ordered my exhaust system from Vetterman - with dual heater/mufflers. It
gets cold here on the DelMarVa peninsula...
I'm also interested in what everyone else has done / is doing to cure this.....
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
From: charles heathco <cheathco(at)junct.com>
Sent: Feb 24, 2006 10:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Freezin high up in drafty 6A.
I had to stuff things in around the seat to cut down on the freezing cold air
coming in from various places overcomming the anemic heat source yesterday. Had
to come down to 11500 ( taking advantage of the 70mp tail winds), and legs still
shaking. 2 questions. Anybody tried adding a 2nd heat muff on the rt exaust,
and 2, is it practicle to try and cover the inspection panels for the flap
actuators. I have insulated the fluting on the baagage bulkhead, but still get
lots of cold air. I got the drawings for the actuator covers, but dont see that
as a good seal. Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna placement |
Ralph,
I've got the same antennas but they're on an -8. Mine are also on the belly
and they both work great in that position. I know that if you mount more
than one, they need to be placed several feet apart. The "radio heads" on
the list could explain why that needs to be done and what the distance
should be. I ended up putting one ahead of the other several feet apart
based upon advice from a avionics shop.
Steve Struyk
St. Charles, MO
RV-8, 32 Hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 9:59 AM
Subject: RV-List: Comm Antenna placement
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> I have a Comant bent whip com antenna that I am planning for the underside
> of my 6A.
>
> I know that I want to keep it away from the exhausts so I was initially
> planning on installing it in the first bay outboard of the elevator
> pushrod tunnel - right under the copilot seat.
>
> Where are the rest of you putting it?
>
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done/to go
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans wingtip nav antenna |
| From: | "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com> |
On a related issue: how should the copper tape be oriented in the tip, laterally
or longitudinally? The directions just say horizontally. I asked Vans and they
said they didn't know, an answer which I found suprising since they sell the
darned thing.
Jekyll
7A
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14710#14710
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Exhaust system choice for an RV-9 |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
Hi Folks,
I'd appreciate some thoughts on the exhaust system choices
available for my RV9 which is going to be fitted with an
Aerosport IO-320 D1A.
Van's sells the Vetterman 4 into 1 but I also see out there the
Aircraft Exhaust Technologies kits.
Why 4 into 1 ?
Why Crossover ?
Do the AET mufflers reduce power ?
Appreciate any comments you can offer to get me started on this
decision ... Thx.
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Comm Antenna placement |
I put mine on the belly about eight inches forward of the baggage bulkhead and
just outside the elevator pushrod tunnel on the left side. This gave it lots
of ground plane area and was far enough from the radio head. It works great in
this location. I have never had a com problem even on the ground in locations
where others with belly mounted antennas have sometimes had reception difficulties.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 183 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
>
> Fellow Listers,
>
> I have a Comant bent whip com antenna that I am planning for the underside of
my
> 6A.
>
> I know that I want to keep it away from the exhausts so I was initially planning
> on installing it in the first bay outboard of the elevator pushrod tunnel -
> right under the copilot seat.
>
> Where are the rest of you putting it?
>
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done/to go
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
At 09:18 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote:
>
>I just ordered my exhaust system from Vetterman - with dual
>heater/mufflers. It gets cold here on the DelMarVa peninsula...
>
>I'm also interested in what everyone else has done / is doing to cure
>this.....
I would run each heat muff to a separate entry into the cockpit.
One for pilot and one for pax.
Ron
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Comm Antenna placement |
I have two of the same antenna that your are planning. Mine are located
just forward of the Wing Spar as close to the outboard side as the could be.
You may need to move inward 6" or so to clear the landing gear on the -6A.
They work great in this location. This location simplifies installation
in that you do not need to route the coax aft of the spar.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,832 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RV-List: Comm Antenna placement
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 10:59:50 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
Fellow Listers,
I have a Comant bent whip com antenna that I am planning for the underside
of my 6A.
I know that I want to keep it away from the exhausts so I was initially
planning on installing it in the first bay outboard of the elevator pushrod
tunnel - right under the copilot seat.
Where are the rest of you putting it?
Ralph Capen
RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done/to go
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Kelby, have you considered that July 1st, Saturday, is right in the middle of the
Arlington fly-in?
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 183 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
>
>
>
> I would love it if you could make the Fly-In. We have decided on July 1st at
10.
> A.M. at the Independence Airport. Please let me know if you can make it for
> sure. We are having some trophies made, Best Paint, Best Interior, Best of Show.
> I will wait to hear from you, thanks a lot and I look forward to meeting you!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | kelby alexander <n41va(at)blazemail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Remember Von Alexander? |
Oh yeah, I will have to re-think that date, any suggestions?
Kelby
--- HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote:
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 18:46:10 +0000
Subject: Re: RV-List: Remember Von Alexander?
-- RV-List message posted by: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Kelby, have you considered that July 1st, Saturday, is right in the middle of the
Arlington fly-in?
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 183 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: kelby alexander n41va(at)blazemail.com
-- RV-List message posted by: kelby alexander n41va(at)blazemail.com
I would love it if you could make the Fly-In. We have decided on July 1st at 10.
A.M. at the Independence Airport. Please let me know if you can make it for
sure. We are having some trophies made, Best Paint, Best Interior, Best of Show.
I will wait to hear from you, thanks a lot and I look forward to meeting you!
Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans wingtip nav antenna |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
It doesn't really matter - orient it whatever way fits best. The
lateral vs. longitudinal direction can't matter, or else performance
would depend on the direction you are flying :-) As long as the antenna
is aligned with the polarization of the signal (horizontal for Nav,
vertical for Com) you're good to go.
I'm using a Bob Archer Nav antenna in my wingtip (many reports of
excellent reception). I've never seen any pictures or reports on the
Van's Nav antenna.
Dennis Glaeser
7A Fuselage
> On a related issue: how should the copper tape be oriented in the tip,
laterally or longitudinally? The directions just say horizontally. I
asked Vans and they said they didn't know, an answer which I found
suprising since they sell the darned thing.
Jekyll 7A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
That was part of that plan...I also have injection so the induction system doesn't
need heat.......
-----Original Message-----
>From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
>Sent: Feb 24, 2006 1:31 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Freezin high up in drafty 6A.
>
>
>At 09:18 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>I just ordered my exhaust system from Vetterman - with dual
>>heater/mufflers. It gets cold here on the DelMarVa peninsula...
>>
>>I'm also interested in what everyone else has done / is doing to cure
>>this.....
>
>I would run each heat muff to a separate entry into the cockpit.
>
>One for pilot and one for pax.
>
>Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank service bulletin |
Vans has just issued a service bulletin to be compled with BEFORE next
flight on all RVs. Go to there web site and check it out...
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank service bulletin |
I don't think this includes the 10s
Scott
>From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006
>
>
>Vans has just issued a service bulletin to be compled with BEFORE next
>flight on all RVs. Go to there web site and check it out...
>
>Scott
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
I had flown for 5 years and one day that flop tube did indeed back off its
fitting and I ended up doing a 12 mile glide which fortunately ended up
with an uneventful landing on an airport. So even though I have really
tighten that son of a gun, I will probably bite the bullet and safety wire
according to the bulletin. Once is more than enough.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 3:58 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
>
> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Freezin high up in drafty 6A. |
Vans recommends plumbing the 2 heat muffs in series.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
265 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 12:31 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Freezin high up in drafty 6A.
>
> At 09:18 AM 2/24/2006, you wrote:
>>
>>I just ordered my exhaust system from Vetterman - with dual
>>heater/mufflers. It gets cold here on the DelMarVa peninsula...
>>
>>I'm also interested in what everyone else has done / is doing to cure
>>this.....
>
> I would run each heat muff to a separate entry into the cockpit.
>
> One for pilot and one for pax.
>
> Ron
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
PLEASE ARCHIVE this.
----Original Message Follows----
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:21:28 -0800
Ron Lee wrote:
>
>http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
>
>Ron Lee
>
>
>
>
>
How stupid is it to keep flying an aircraft when apparently there were
indications that all was not well.
"The operator of this aircraft reported that, on multiple occasions, fuel
would not feed from the affected tank when the level reached approximately
one third full. This would be an indication that the associated fuel pickup
was loose or was not attached to the bulkhead fitting inside the tank."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
If your flop tube falls off you have approx 3.5 gallons that you can not use
in that tank (Rv-6A). After my flop tube fell off (I initially thought that
it had hung up on something), I would fill that tank approx 1/2 full and
while flying tried to rock the wings and shake loose the "hung up" flop
tube. But, every time the fuel level got down to 3.5 gallons in that tank,
the engine would start to sputter. I agree its hard to understand why an
individual would not notice that he could not use the last 3.5 gallons and
fly depending on it. I guess if you had burnt all the fuel in your good
tank and expected to make it to the airport on the flop tube tank - it could
catch you if it were the first instance after it had falling off. While
making the flights trying to "unhang" the flop tube, I always took off and
landed using the other tank.
I finally bit the bullet and took the tank off, opened it up expecting to
find the tube hung up - but, much to my surprise it was not hung up and (I
had forgotten) I found that I had installed all the anti-hang fixes that Van
suggested. Then I reached in and picked up the flop tube - really puzzled -
until it followed my hand out the access hole. Came loose after 160 hours
of flight time.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
>
> PLEASE ARCHIVE this.
>
> ----Original Message Follows----
> From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)comcast.net>
> Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
> Date: Fri, 24 Feb 2006 13:21:28 -0800
>
>
> Ron Lee wrote:
>
> >
> >http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
> >
> >Ron Lee
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> How stupid is it to keep flying an aircraft when apparently there were
> indications that all was not well.
>
> "The operator of this aircraft reported that, on multiple occasions, fuel
> would not feed from the affected tank when the level reached approximately
> one third full. This would be an indication that the associated fuel
> pickup
> was loose or was not attached to the bulkhead fitting inside the tank."
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: PC680's on ebay |
go to ebay and search for pc680 and it will take you to the two sources.
Jerry Calvert
RV6
----- Original Message -----
From: <Rquinn1(at)aol.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 8:41 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: PC680's on ebay
>
> What are the sources.
> We am on our second Odsey (The first one was still OK but after 5 years we
> decided to give it a break) I would go with the cheaper one assuming they
had a
> valid track record.
> Rollie and Rod
> RV6A 799RQ
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <travishamblen(at)cox.net> |
I have installed my IO-390 and started all the firewall forward stuff. Soon to
be working on the baffles, can't believe that I am getting SO SO close to flying
this thing! Can any of the guys who installed the IO-390 on their RV send
me an e-mail? I am looking to exchange some pictures of your work (i.e.... FAB
mods, baffling, or anything else that had to be modified to accommodate the
IO-390). So far the 390 has presented no problems, only a couple minor (and I
do mean minor) differences from installing an IO-360A1B6. I am trying to do
a little advance homework so that when I get to anything that may need some head
scratching I have already considered all my options.
Just for the record, Barrett Precision Engines is one of the most honest down to
earth engine people I have ever dealt with, and the engine was on time, and
VERY VERY SEXY! If you are in the market for an engine I would give them a call.
Nothing like doing business with a family ran business where everyone/anyone
will bendover backwards to help you, makes you feel like one of their family,
and gives you a better than fair price. If you are considering using Barrett
and need a reference, be sure to drop me an e-mail.
Travis
TravisHamblen(at)cox.net
RV-7A (everything is done but the firewall forward)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Van's fuel tank service bulletin and another thought |
Well it looks like I'll be going into the tanks again. I had originally
installed the cork gaskets but after reading about so many people taking
them off, I decided to remove mine, I did that a few months ago.
Now Van's has issued this mandatory service bulletin:
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
It requires me to open the tanks again. Sense I've got to do it, I am
seriously things about adding these low fuel warning sensors also:
http://www.aircraftextras.com/FSensorInstall.htm
What do people who's using these think about them?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Looks to me like Van has hired a ex FAA lawyer to protect the company
from litigation!
One question for you Ed, did you switch to the other tank, seems to me
that should re-establish fuel flow.
George in Langley BC
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>snip ---- one day that flop tube did indeed back off its
>fitting and I ended up doing a 12 mile glide which fortunately ended up
>with an uneventful landing
>
>Ed Anderson
>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Well, there have been at least two events. Maybe more. So there are
good odds that this failure will happen again. I'm not sure the
"perform SB before next flight" is warranted, but it would be prudent
to operate as if this failure could occur on one tank on the next
flight until both fuel pickups are safetied. I.e. increase the
assumed unusable fuel to allow a safe landing even if one fuel pickup
becomes undone. The hard part is knowing how much extra unusable
fuel to assume - Ed's data suggests 3.5 USG is the value for an
inverted tank pickup, but we don't know how much error this
measurement has, nor do we know what unusable fuel to assume for a
regular fuel pickup, if it becomes undone.
I'm a bit torqued as I just put one of my access covers back on last
week, after fixing a tank leak. But I'll pull them and do the SB
before first flight.
Kevin Horton
On 24 Feb 2006, at 22:21, G McNutt wrote:
>
>
> Looks to me like Van has hired a ex FAA lawyer to protect the company
> from litigation!
>
> One question for you Ed, did you switch to the other tank, seems to me
> that should re-establish fuel flow.
>
> George in Langley BC
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> snip ---- one day that flop tube did indeed back off its
>> fitting and I ended up doing a 12 mile glide which fortunately
>> ended up
>> with an uneventful landing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Re; Vans Mandatory Fuel Tank Service Bulletin
I have just read this Mandatory Service Bulletin and I think it is going
way overboard, someone at Vans has made a big Boo-Boo as far as customer
relations goes.
It seems to me that the Time of Compliance - "Before further flight" is
extremely harsh for all aircraft that have properly functioning fuel
system(s).
(1) The MSB does not make any provision to ferry your aircraft back to
your home airport or to a maintenance base.
(2) What about alternate compliance?? - seems to me if I drain all the
fuel out of the tanks, then add one gallon back into each tank and do a
engine run-up using each tank I would soon know if the fuel pick-up
sucking air, loose or missing. If I pass this test seems the MSB could
wait for the next annual inspection.
My insurance and/or CofA may not be valid if I fly my aircraft this
weekend, thank you Van, and you can bet I will e-mail and telephone
Van's first thing Monday morning, and I would encourage everyone who is
effected by the MSB to call Van about this heavy handed MSB.
George in Langley BC
6A - 400 hrs
7A cowlings
>
>http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
A properly torqued flare nut will not come loose. Lock it down and be
done. There are some good instructions on this Thread on the
Vansairforce.net for drilling if you wish to punish yourself.
Darrell
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "N901DT" <N901DT(at)houston.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We need Change Van's fuel tank service bulletin |
I feel that everyone on the list should contact Van's and encourage them
change the bulletin to a service letter or revision. At very the least they
should change the compliance time to the next condition inspection with a
note to monitor the situation for unusual lost of fuel pressure indications.
Emergency A.D.,s and standard A.D.'s for certified aircraft are permitted to
offer a different method of compliance.
The service bulletin looks like an over reaction. It is a situation that
should be brought to the attention of all builders/owners. The problem with
a mandatory service bulletin has to do with INSURANCE coverage. As we all
know, we are not required to comply with service bulletins and A.D.'s
however we are required to address the issue. An Insurance company would
likely deny a claim for any accident if the service bulletin was not
completed as defined. This service bulletin amounts to an emergency A.D.
since is requires the modification to be completed before any further
flights.
According to the bulletin the pilot had a reoccurring problem and apparently
took little or no corrective actions. Is this a problem that is wide
spread? With thousands of RV's flying for many years it's hard to believe
that this is a common problem. I don't feel that is fair to effectively
ground the entire fleet because an isolated case.
David Grover
RV-8
flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
No, George, I remain a bit embarrassed to say I talked my self out of doing
just that. My poor rationale was that I knew I had 3.5 gallons left in that
tank and therefore the problem must be something else other than the lack of
fuel. Of course, it turns out I DID have 3.5 gallons left - just couldn't
use it. Having been talking with another pilot the day before about cases
of the slosh compound peeling off and plugging fuel filters, I convinced
myself that my fuel filter had plugged and therefore switching tanks would
not do any good. Of course, if I had done what ever instructor I ever flew
with told me to do and switched tanks - it would not have been an event. I
tell folks sometimes absolute knowledge is not necessarily a good thing.
Had I been less certain about the fuel in that tank ( I have a fuel
totalizer) then I may have switched.
I am happy to say that the decisions make after that bad one were
considerably better {:>)
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "G McNutt" <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 10:21 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
>
>
> Looks to me like Van has hired a ex FAA lawyer to protect the company
> from litigation!
>
> One question for you Ed, did you switch to the other tank, seems to me
> that should re-establish fuel flow.
>
> George in Langley BC
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>>
>>snip ---- one day that flop tube did indeed back off its
>>fitting and I ended up doing a 12 mile glide which fortunately ended up
>>with an uneventful landing
>>
>>Ed Anderson
>>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Well, I don't know in the experimental homebuilt world just how
mandatory a service bulletin can be made by a kit manufacturer.
Afterall, you are the aircraft manufacturer, not Vans.
In the certified world, so called mandatory service bulletins are
meaningless to Part 91 operations, unless there is a financial
incentive(such as Hartzell is offering big discounts on their hub SB
that is expected to become and AD, but only for the next 3 months). You
can simply ignore them, unless the FAA issues an AD to enforce the SB. I
don't know if that is true for homebuilt, but would be surprised if it
isn't.
G McNutt wrote:
>
>
> Re; Vans Mandatory Fuel Tank Service Bulletin
>
> I have just read this Mandatory Service Bulletin and I think it is going
> way overboard, someone at Vans has made a big Boo-Boo as far as customer
> relations goes.
> It seems to me that the Time of Compliance - "Before further flight" is
> extremely harsh for all aircraft that have properly functioning fuel
> system(s).
>
> (1) The MSB does not make any provision to ferry your aircraft back to
> your home airport or to a maintenance base.
>
> (2) What about alternate compliance?? - seems to me if I drain all the
> fuel out of the tanks, then add one gallon back into each tank and do a
> engine run-up using each tank I would soon know if the fuel pick-up
> sucking air, loose or missing. If I pass this test seems the MSB could
> wait for the next annual inspection.
>
> My insurance and/or CofA may not be valid if I fly my aircraft this
> weekend, thank you Van, and you can bet I will e-mail and telephone
> Van's first thing Monday morning, and I would encourage everyone who is
> effected by the MSB to call Van about this heavy handed MSB.
>
> George in Langley BC
> 6A - 400 hrs
> 7A cowlings
>
>> http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We need Change Van's fuel tank service bulletin |
After my experience, I burn all fuel out of the tank with flop tube before
switching to the other tank. That way should the improbable happen AGAIN, I
will still have 18 gallons left in the other tank. You actually have more
reachable fuel if the flop tube falls off than if the regular pick up should
fall off its fitting as its fitting is near the top of the tank.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "N901DT" <N901DT(at)houston.rr.com>
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 11:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: We need Change Van's fuel tank service bulletin
>
> I feel that everyone on the list should contact Van's and encourage them
> change the bulletin to a service letter or revision. At very the least
> they
> should change the compliance time to the next condition inspection with a
> note to monitor the situation for unusual lost of fuel pressure
> indications.
> Emergency A.D.,s and standard A.D.'s for certified aircraft are permitted
> to
> offer a different method of compliance.
>
> The service bulletin looks like an over reaction. It is a situation that
> should be brought to the attention of all builders/owners. The problem
> with
> a mandatory service bulletin has to do with INSURANCE coverage. As we all
> know, we are not required to comply with service bulletins and A.D.'s
> however we are required to address the issue. An Insurance company would
> likely deny a claim for any accident if the service bulletin was not
> completed as defined. This service bulletin amounts to an emergency A.D.
> since is requires the modification to be completed before any further
> flights.
>
> According to the bulletin the pilot had a reoccurring problem and
> apparently
> took little or no corrective actions. Is this a problem that is wide
> spread? With thousands of RV's flying for many years it's hard to believe
> that this is a common problem. I don't feel that is fair to effectively
> ground the entire fleet because an isolated case.
>
> David Grover
> RV-8
> flying
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | We need Change Van's fuel tank service bulletin |
It seems to me that Van's MSB has no force in law except to cover his
behind. You are the manufacturer, Van's is only a parts supplier. I get
several letter a year from a well known vacuum pump manufacturer telling me
to take his product off my airplane. I laugh and throw them away. Van's MSB
should prompt you to look at the fuel pickups at your convenience, note it
in the log book and move on. It doesn't ground your airplane, only you or
the FAA can do that.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of N901DT
Sent: Friday, February 24, 2006 11:10 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: We need Change Van's fuel tank service bulletin
I feel that everyone on the list should contact Van's and encourage them
change the bulletin to a service letter or revision. At very the least they
should change the compliance time to the next condition inspection with a
note to monitor the situation for unusual lost of fuel pressure indications.
Emergency A.D.,s and standard A.D.'s for certified aircraft are permitted to
offer a different method of compliance.
The service bulletin looks like an over reaction. It is a situation that
should be brought to the attention of all builders/owners. The problem with
a mandatory service bulletin has to do with INSURANCE coverage. As we all
know, we are not required to comply with service bulletins and A.D.'s
however we are required to address the issue. An Insurance company would
likely deny a claim for any accident if the service bulletin was not
completed as defined. This service bulletin amounts to an emergency A.D.
since is requires the modification to be completed before any further
flights.
According to the bulletin the pilot had a reoccurring problem and apparently
took little or no corrective actions. Is this a problem that is wide
spread? With thousands of RV's flying for many years it's hard to believe
that this is a common problem. I don't feel that is fair to effectively
ground the entire fleet because an isolated case.
David Grover
RV-8
flying
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: We need Change Van's fuel tank service bulletin |
I haven't received any formal notifications from Van's regarding this SB. Wait
for your notification. You're not responsible for checking Van's website on a
daily basis for SB's.
Darrell
N901DT wrote:
I feel that everyone on the list should contact Van's and encourage them
change the bulletin to a service letter or revision. At very the least they
should change the compliance time to the next condition inspection with a
note to monitor the situation for unusual lost of fuel pressure indications.
Emergency A.D.,s and standard A.D.'s for certified aircraft are permitted to
offer a different method of compliance.
The service bulletin looks like an over reaction. It is a situation that
should be brought to the attention of all builders/owners. The problem with
a mandatory service bulletin has to do with INSURANCE coverage. As we all
know, we are not required to comply with service bulletins and A.D.'s
however we are required to address the issue. An Insurance company would
likely deny a claim for any accident if the service bulletin was not
completed as defined. This service bulletin amounts to an emergency A.D.
since is requires the modification to be completed before any further
flights.
According to the bulletin the pilot had a reoccurring problem and apparently
took little or no corrective actions. Is this a problem that is wide
spread? With thousands of RV's flying for many years it's hard to believe
that this is a common problem. I don't feel that is fair to effectively
ground the entire fleet because an isolated case.
David Grover
RV-8
flying
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ted Lumpkin <tlump51(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Air Compressor Repair Help |
I purchased a 5hp, 26 gallon air compressor from Harbor Freight. It worked well
for a year, but now will barely turnover and will not develop full rpm and,
therefore, will not compress air. A friend of mine tells me the compressor
is trying to start using "run" current. I've checked the circuit breaker and
the centrifugal clutch switch that triggers the start vs. run circuit. They
both check out fine. The oil level is correct and the compressor cylinder
appears fine. I have removed the start capacitor, but haven't had any luck
finding a replacement.
Three questions:
Has anyone else solved a similar problem and, if so, how?
Does anyone know where I can get an air compressor start capacitor?
If I have to change the entire motor, is there a cheap (cheaper than buying another
compressor) place to buy one?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Ted
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert E. Lynch" <rv6lynch(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor Repair Help |
Ted.
Give me a call at 573 893 2291 at around 9am cst. I can help you trouble
shoot the compressor.
Bob Lynch
Jeff City, Mo.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Edwardoconnor <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank Bulletin |
I installed Van's Capacitance fuel quanity system and elected not to
cut the access hole in the root ribs since they were not necessary. Now
it looks like I will have to remove the tank to comply with this and I
am just days from first flight. Bummer. May wait a while to comply. The
idea of removing the tanks and cracking that brand new paint job and
reprosealing after all of this and making a tank access plate and
sealing it up just doesn't sound like any fun. I like the bore scope
idea. I know they make one that could be used considering where I have
seen them placed in the human body. It could fit through the tank drain
hole and inspect the AN fittings.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank bulletin |
Hello,
This bulletin requires removal of the fuel tanks. Does anyone have advice
about how to remove wing tanks after the plane has been painted? I can see
the need to scribe the skin overlap area to break cleanly the paint line
between the wing skin and the tank skin, but can't we expect that paint has
wicked into and under the skin, thus effectively gluing the tank to the
wing?
I would appreciate any advice for those who have removed their fuel tanks. I
had mine off before the plane was painted and it wasn't too hard, but I
don't want to make a mess of my nice new paint job.
Steve Soule
Highgate, Vermont
N227RV, RV-6A
Fuel tank bulletin
Hello,
This bulletin requires removal of the fuel tanks. Does anyone have advice about
how to remove wing tanks after the plane has been painted? I can see the need
to scribe the skin overlap area to break cleanly the paint line between the wing
skin and the tank skin, but can't we expect that paint has wicked into and
under the skin, thus effectively gluing the tank to the wing?
I would appreciate any advice for those who have removed their fuel tanks. I had
mine off before the plane was painted and it wasn't too hard, but I don't want
to make a mess of my nice new paint job.
Steve Soule
Highgate, Vermont
N227RV, RV-6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 11:20 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel tank bulletin
>
> Hello,
>
> This bulletin requires removal of the fuel tanks.
According to the service bulletin, you don't need to remove the tanks. Of
course, trying to remove those screws, etc. in the 3" (?) gap between the
fuselage and wing tanks ain't gonna be fun or easy.
KB
>Does anyone have advice
> about how to remove wing tanks after the plane has been painted? I can see
> the need to scribe the skin overlap area to break cleanly the paint line
> between the wing skin and the tank skin, but can't we expect that paint
> has
> wicked into and under the skin, thus effectively gluing the tank to the
> wing?
>
> I would appreciate any advice for those who have removed their fuel tanks.
> I
> had mine off before the plane was painted and it wasn't too hard, but I
> don't want to make a mess of my nice new paint job.
>
> Steve Soule
> Highgate, Vermont
> N227RV, RV-6A
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Bulletin |
Cc: "rocket-list"
At last the sound of common sense & reason in a sea of mass hysteria. Now
this is something that can be done for YOUR own protection. We'll do both
BUT a look see via the drain hole will work until we get ALL the stuff on
hand, in the hanger to do the complete job Van has requested. Pro Seal,
gasket material, new screws anyone ??? 8*) KABONG HRII N561FS
''I like the bore scope idea. I know they make one that could be used
considering where I have seen them placed in the human body. It could fit
through the tank drain hole and inspect the AN fittings."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edwardoconnor" <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 7:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Tank Bulletin
>
> I installed Van's Capacitance fuel quanity system and elected not to
> cut the access hole in the root ribs since they were not necessary. Now
> it looks like I will have to remove the tank to comply with this and I
> am just days from first flight. Bummer. May wait a while to comply. The
> idea of removing the tanks and cracking that brand new paint job and
> reprosealing after all of this and making a tank access plate and
> sealing it up just doesn't sound like any fun.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Memorial plane, Please read |
I have plenty of parts to donate.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
265 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "kelby alexander" <n41va(at)blazemail.com>
Cc:
Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 7:13 PM
Subject: RV-List: Memorial plane, Please read
>
>
> Let me clarify my goal and my intentions with this "memorial airplane." I
> had a few VERY good ideas given to me (thanks John Jessen). First off, I
> am going to focus not on the fact that these pilots have passesd away
> doing what they love. But I am going to focus on the love they had for
> flying and especially the love they had for RV's. So here is the plan:
>
>
> 1. The plane will be built entirely on donations, and money raised thru
> various fund raising events.
>
>
> 2. The plane WILL NOT BE MY PERSONAL PLANE and I will not profit from it
> in any way form or shape.
>
>
> 3. Every detail on the plane will be a community effort, paint scheme and
> colors, interior, everything will be ran thru this RV list and those who
> have donated whatever they can, small or large.
>
>
> 4. When it is finished, it will immediatly be donated to the EAA and be
> flown from one chapter to the next. So this would be an EAA plane when it
> is finished.
>
>
> 5. It will be built to give the gift of flight to those who do not of
> access to a plane. (I grew up in the back of an RV and those are my best
> memories).
>
>
> 6. Instead of having the names of the pilots we have lost, the plane will
> travel with a book with every RV-ers flight stories, experiences and
> advice to Young Eagles. And as it travels around it will gain more and
> more experiences and stories.
>
>
> I mentioned one way this will be paid for are Custom Flight Suits that my
> family and I are making, I have had good interest in them so far. They
> will have your name embrordered on the left chest, the date of your first
> flight and the model (RV-6-8-9 etc..) on the right hand sideand your tail
> number on the back.We can also put 2 patches from Vans, and if you wish
> aLycoming patch as well.They will be VERY nice and very high quality. they
> can come in Navy Blue, Kahki, Olive Green or Black with any color of
> embrodery. Each one will cost my family and I $90.00 so anything over $90
> will go towards the cost of the plane. Please email me if you would like
> to order one for you or a friend. The $90.00 includes shipping.
>
>
> So I really hope this idea gets a good response. Please let me know what
> you guys think and give me your ideas and feedback. And like I said this
> will be paid for by donations. So email me if you would like to donate
> towards this project, I have a SEPERATE bank account set up and SEPERATE
> pay-pal account set up for this. I will keep you guys up to date on the
> progress, but our first step is a set of tools (That will be donated to
> The Young Eagles as well) I figure between $1,200-$1,500. Then we will
> purchase the tail kit, as soon......So email me if you would like to
> donate, not only money buttools, avionics, radios, a hanger spaceto build
> it in. Even something as small as a little bag of rivets would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
>
> Thank you guys very much for your time.
>
>
> Fight the power! BlazeMail.com
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
Kelby and all, sorry for any confusion I caused on dates for Arlington. I was
wrong, Arlington is July 5th through the 9th according to the website. No conflict
with Kelby's plan for July 1.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 185 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | tank paint protector |
I was looking for a way to protect the fuel tanks from gas spill when pumping and
found this in motorcycle world. Looks like a good, cheap and light way to protect
that expensive paint job. Anybody using one of these already? Comments?
Link below:
http://goldwingcustomizing.com/detail.cfm?model_ID=3D6&Category_ID=3D25&manufacturer_ID=3D340&product_ID=3D11693
Cheers...
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank Bulletin |
2 boroscopes
http://da.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
265 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edwardoconnor" <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel Tank Bulletin
>
> I installed Van's Capacitance fuel quanity system and elected not to
> cut the access hole in the root ribs since they were not necessary. Now
> it looks like I will have to remove the tank to comply with this and I
> am just days from first flight. Bummer. May wait a while to comply. The
> idea of removing the tanks and cracking that brand new paint job and
> reprosealing after all of this and making a tank access plate and
> sealing it up just doesn't sound like any fun. I like the bore scope
> idea. I know they make one that could be used considering where I have
> seen them placed in the human body. It could fit through the tank drain
> hole and inspect the AN fittings.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
Good point, but when I built my 6 I painted the tanks separately and
used stainless screws it install them. Removal is a 1/2 hour job (after
they're empty). And, in my opinion they look just as good or better than
painted screws, and are much more serviceable.
BTW, I'd like to watch someone try to remove the inverted pickup with
the tanks installed! I think Van's is out to lunch on that one.
Dave -6 So Cal
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>Hello,
>
>This bulletin requires removal of the fuel tanks. Does anyone have advice
>about how to remove wing tanks after the plane has been painted? I can see
>the need to scribe the skin overlap area to break cleanly the paint line
>between the wing skin and the tank skin, but can't we expect that paint has
>wicked into and under the skin, thus effectively gluing the tank to the
>wing?
>
>I would appreciate any advice for those who have removed their fuel tanks. I
>had mine off before the plane was painted and it wasn't too hard, but I
>don't want to make a mess of my nice new paint job.
>
>Steve Soule
>Highgate, Vermont
>N227RV, RV-6A
>
>
>
>
>
>Fuel tank bulletin
>
>
>Hello,
>
>
>This bulletin requires removal of the fuel tanks. Does anyone have advice about
how to remove wing tanks after the plane has been painted? I can see the need
to scribe the skin overlap area to break cleanly the paint line between the
wing skin and the tank skin, but can't we expect that paint has wicked into and
under the skin, thus effectively gluing the tank to the wing?
>
>
>I would appreciate any advice for those who have removed their fuel tanks. I had
mine off before the plane was painted and it wasn't too hard, but I don't want
to make a mess of my nice new paint job.
>
>
>Steve Soule
>
>Highgate, Vermont
>
>N227RV, RV-6A
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank bulletin |
Dave,
I used unpainted screws, so that's not the problem. I was thinking that even
when the screws are out, the tank will still be stuck to the wing with
paint. I wondered if anybody had practical advice about how to pry the tank
apart from the wing.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Bristol
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank bulletin
Good point, but when I built my 6 I painted the tanks separately and
used stainless screws it install them. Removal is a 1/2 hour job (after
they're empty). And, in my opinion they look just as good or better than
painted screws, and are much more serviceable.
BTW, I'd like to watch someone try to remove the inverted pickup with
the tanks installed! I think Van's is out to lunch on that one.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB |
I tend to agree with the fact that this service bulletin is a bit harsh.
Lets see, I put over 2000Hrs on the first RV-6A (and it's been flying
for
another 3.5 Years) and 525 Hrs on this one. Neither has had a pickup
come off ( I must have properly torqued & flared them..)
And if this is indeed an issue with flare nuts, then I must assume
that all others need to be safety wired as well.
Funny, the standard FAA repair manual doesn't suggest this
action.....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
"mailto:lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com"lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
A properly torqued flare nut will not come loose. Lock it down and
be
done. There are some good instructions on this Thread on the
Vansairforce.net for drilling if you wish to punish yourself.
Darrell
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Vans wingtip nav antenna |
| From: | "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com> |
dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com wrote:
> It doesn't really matter - orient it whatever way fits best. The
> lateral vs. longitudinal direction can't matter, or else performance
> would depend on the direction you are flying :-) Dennis Glaeser
>
Dennis: Thanks for knocking that dunce cap right down over my ears where it belongs.
My ears have been getting a bit drafty lately.
[Embarassed]
Jekyll
Duh
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=14960#14960
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken & Terri Howell" <tandk_howell(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank bulletin |
I haven't built my tanks yet, so shouldn't have a problem complying with
this SB. But I do have a question. Step 16 of the SB says to check the
AN818-4D vent line coupling for proper torque before reinstalling the T-408
cover plate. That's no guarantee that it's not going to fall off in the
future. I plan on buttering the vent line coupling nut with Proseal after it
has been torqued. The question is, how good would Proseal be for "locking"
the coupling nut, or should some other kind of fuel-resistant Loctite be
used?
Ken Howell
Glenwood Maryland
RV-7 Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
There are a lot of flared tubing connections on an RV. Why safety only this one?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
These are the only fittings that CANNOT be inspected during a normal
condition inspection. There was ONE know ACCIDENT from this connection being
loose.
Van knows more about RV airplanes that I do.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,841 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
Date: Sat, 25 Feb 2006 17:32:16 -0500
There are a lot of flared tubing connections on an RV. Why safety only this
one?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Probably because it's one we don't have easy access to, or even see when
changing oil etc. I like to put a wrench on the available nuts each time
the cowl, wing root fairings, wheel pants etc are off. Makes me feel better.
Dick RV6A 400hrs
At 05:32 PM 2/25/2006, you wrote:
>
>There are a lot of flared tubing connections on an RV. Why safety only
>this one?
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
It's the only connection that Van's attorney is concerned with at this time. ;-)
Darrell
DAVID REEL wrote:
There are a lot of flared tubing connections on an RV. Why safety only this one?
Dave Reel - RV8A
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
Maybe that was on a -7. On my -6 there isn't enough room to get your
hand between the wing and fuselage, let alone enough to reach inside the
tank to break the proseal loose on the flop tube. Anyway, on my
airplane, it's easy to remove the tanks, draining them is the hard part
- wait - I could just FLY the fuel out!
Dave
Paul Trotter wrote:
>
>I was speaking to Scott at Van's yesterday about something else and I
>mentioned the SB. He said he watched one of the guys there remove the flop
>tube from a tank on the wing and it wasn't difficult.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com> |
I finally managed to download the service bulletin...can't figure out how you'd
drill a hole through the coupling nut, then thread it on tightly without the
safety wire getting involved iand jammed up in the threads...what am I missing?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
Steve,
Just use a razor blade along the edge of the tank. The paint will not
have run under the edge enough to cause it to stick unless the painter
REALLY loaded it up with wet paint.
Dave
Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>Dave,
>
>I used unpainted screws, so that's not the problem. I was thinking that even
>when the screws are out, the tank will still be stuck to the wing with
>paint. I wondered if anybody had practical advice about how to pry the tank
>apart from the wing.
>
>Steve
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Bristol
>Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:44 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank bulletin
>
>
>Good point, but when I built my 6 I painted the tanks separately and
>used stainless screws it install them. Removal is a 1/2 hour job (after
>they're empty). And, in my opinion they look just as good or better than
>painted screws, and are much more serviceable.
>BTW, I'd like to watch someone try to remove the inverted pickup with
>the tanks installed! I think Van's is out to lunch on that one.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
Kyle Boatright wrote:
>
>It has been a long time since I built my tanks, but my memory (and the
>drawing in the Service Bulletin) show the pick-up being attached to the
>access plate, so you won't need to safety anything inside the tank.
>
There may be some confusion about the 'reach' required because of the
difference between standard & flop tube pickups.
I don't know for sure about the -6, but the -7 has the flop tube
installed on a fitting through the leading edge reinforcement angle.
That's a pretty long reach & would mean getting your elbow between the
fuse & wing, turning into the tank, then turning again toward the
leading edge & reaching forward to the leading edge to do your
tightening & safety wiring.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Air Compressor Repair Help |
Ted Lumpkin wrote:
>
>I purchased a 5hp, 26 gallon air compressor from Harbor Freight. It worked well
for a year, but now will barely turnover and will not develop full rpm and,
therefore, will not compress air. A friend of mine tells me the compressor
is trying to start using "run" current. I've checked the circuit breaker
and the centrifugal clutch switch that triggers the start vs. run circuit. They
both check out fine. The oil level is correct and the compressor cylinder
appears fine. I have removed the start capacitor, but haven't had any luck
finding a replacement.
>
> Three questions:
>
> Has anyone else solved a similar problem and, if so, how?
>
> Does anyone know where I can get an air compressor start capacitor?
>
> If I have to change the entire motor, is there a cheap (cheaper than buying
another compressor) place to buy one?
>
> Thanks in advance for your help.
>
> Ted
>
Most electronic supply houses & just about any heating & air
conditioning supply house should have a replacement that will work. Take
the old one with you & find one with equal or higher voltage rating &
uFD rating that's somewhere close to the value on your old one. If you
go to an electronics house, be sure they understand that it's for AC
operation, not DC.
I think that HF sells motors, too.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB |
CC: cliffgerber(at)comcast.net, GStorey826(at)aol.com, Sherry(at)bobsherryhaan.com,
lakauf(at)comcast.net
_http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf_
(http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/sb06-2-23.pdf)
This takes the cake! Out of 4500+ RV flying, ONE guy has a loosened
bulkhead nut that was more than likely caused by improper installation, so now
we
all get to rip into our tanks... If there is more to this story, Van's should
tell us, but to ground the whole fleet on this one instance, involving
thousands of man hours of labor is simply preposterous, if not downright stupid.
Even the FAA wouldn't be this dumb. Someone at Van's has overeacted to the
extreme, probably due to a hyperactive lawyer...
I wonder if certified aircraft must have safetied fuel bulkhead nuts? If
this is so, then I guess we better remove all our fuel lines and safety them
also. How about in the engine compartment where it would cause a fire, rather
than this one which *only* turns you into a glider with a chance to switch
tanks?
Any A&P's on this board know the answer if certified ships have this mod in
their tanks?
I agree with the guy who says ring Van's phones off the hooks Monday
starting around 7a.m.... Not to mention a couple thou emails... They need to know
what you think...
My .05 as per usual...
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
Vans has just issued a service bulletin to be compled with BEFORE next
flight on all RVs. Go to there web site and check it out...
Scott
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bud Newhall <RV-6(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
I was helping a friend annual his RV-7 today and he decided he wanted to
comply due to insurance issues.
It took less than 1/2 hour to do the first tank. A lot easier than I
expected.
Drilling the nut is no problem if you do it on the end away from the
threads.
There's plenty of meat there.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Referred to RV7 plans dwg 28 |
OK - I almost give up......
I got Vans Firewall foreward documentation......every time I turn around I am getting
referred to a page that they didn't include....
I have been referred to RV7 plans dwg 28 for the vent line holes in the lower foreward
outboard corners....from what I can see on the other drawings it appears
to be about three inches inboard from the fuselage sides and about an inch
back from the firewall. Can someone look at their drawing 28 and tell me what
the distances are relative to what - please!
I'm looking for the same info for where the vent lines go out the sides to the
fuel tank - But I am not sure that the 7 and 6 are similar enough to not worry
about the bracket that attaches the foreward edge of the fuel tank to the side
of the fuselage...I remember reading that the wings were different - but I
don't recall how.
Thanks loads,
Ralph Capen
RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done 90% to go.....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | i39 Flyin Report |
Man, there were sure a lot of people who stayed up late last night and did
the voluntary (I refuse to use mandatory) safety wire thing. At first I was
wondering if that was in fact the case.
I woke up at 5:00AM to get the truck packed and in order to get to the
airport. When I walked outside the wind gust and light, very light, rain
surprised me. So be it, the flyin was on nothing I could do about the
weather. Off I go the airport. Elaine got there about the same time as I
and fired up the coffee (man, was it ever coffee:-). At about 10AM, when
the ramp is usually almost full, we only had about 12 SB compliant (or maybe
reckless.....oh, my) RV'ers after 4-5 had already come and gone. At about
this time Rat Flight of 10 (Ohio Valley & TeamRV) with two who got in early
arrived and performed three very nice formation flybys. At about this time
we had more arrivals than departure. The weather south and north east of us
had people coming and going on a regular basis. In addition the winds were
pretty much cross wind at 12-19 gusting to 23knts. With that said we had 52
arrivals prior to the door prizes with two arrivals post door prizes. The
past two years we have pushed 100 RVs so the turnout was definitely off, but
expected. We still put a lot of RV's in one place at one time. It was
great to see everyone again and look forward to our no frills, free coffee,
free donuts, free pop, free water, free Hooter's
wings................Kickoff Flyin. As a side note, the first person here
today DROVE from St. Louis just to see RV's. That shows the passion!!
Man, I am still amazed as just how many people stayed up all night and fixed
sonething on there airplanes. The thought of the day, over 4000 RVs flying
multiplied by the number of flight hours X the number of flight hours flown
post 3.5 gallons remaining X Common Sense..................
Anyway, we had another great time, hope all who attended did also.
Same time next year.........the last Saturday of February.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
Finish kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Referred to RV7 plans dwg 28 |
Ralph,
I share your frustration, since I am a 6A builder and looking at 7A
firewall forward prints. But , if I compare my original fuel line,
brake line, vent line plans to the ones from the 7A, I feel a lot
better. The 7A drawings actually show things in detail with isometric
views. Wow, so thats how you route and mount all that plumbing!
Don't give up! It is only a vent line fitting hole! :-)
From the 7 preview plans: Sheet 28 only points to a pre-punched rivet
hole in the floor pan (third in from the outside edge) with a note to
enlarge it to 7/16" for a vent line fitting. What is missing.......the
location of the pre-punched hole of course. Same story for the side
fuselage vent line location. (FYI, the location of the vent line exit
from the tank is different between the 6 and 7 drawings, so the fuselage
side penetration is probably different too.)
Here is where I put my vent lines.
Floor pan: almost exactly where you guessed. Approx. 3..5 inches in
from the side skin, and 1 inch aft of the firewall rivet line.
Side skin: forward of the tank to fuselage attach bracket.
Let me know if you need a better explanation. I can send you some photos.
Steve
RV-6A, with a few 7 parts attached
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
> OK - I almost give up......
>
> I got Vans Firewall foreward documentation......every time I turn around I am
getting referred to a page that they didn't include....
>
> I have been referred to RV7 plans dwg 28 for the vent line holes in the lower
foreward outboard corners....from what I can see on the other drawings it appears
to be about three inches inboard from the fuselage sides and about an inch
back from the firewall. Can someone look at their drawing 28 and tell me what
the distances are relative to what - please!
>
> I'm looking for the same info for where the vent lines go out the sides to the
fuel tank - But I am not sure that the 7 and 6 are similar enough to not worry
about the bracket that attaches the foreward edge of the fuel tank to the
side of the fuselage...I remember reading that the wings were different - but
I don't recall how.
>
> Thanks loads,
> Ralph Capen
> RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done 90% to go.....
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Air Compressor Repair Help |
Every HF electric tool I've ever bought has come with spare brushes. No
other tool company I've ever bought from has needed to include extra
brushes, so I've always assumed HF motors are junk. I don't know jack about
electric motors or capacitors, but if its from HF I'd check those brushes.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ted Lumpkin
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: Air Compressor Repair Help
I purchased a 5hp, 26 gallon air compressor from Harbor Freight. It worked
well for a year, but now will barely turnover and will not develop full rpm
and, therefore, will not compress air. A friend of mine tells me the
compressor is trying to start using "run" current. I've checked the
circuit breaker and the centrifugal clutch switch that triggers the start
vs. run circuit. They both check out fine. The oil level is correct and
the compressor cylinder appears fine. I have removed the start capacitor,
but haven't had any luck finding a replacement.
Three questions:
Has anyone else solved a similar problem and, if so, how?
Does anyone know where I can get an air compressor start capacitor?
If I have to change the entire motor, is there a cheap (cheaper than
buying another compressor) place to buy one?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Ted
Message transport security by GatewayDefender.com
2:32:50 AM ET - 2/25/2006
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Cc:
| Subject: | Re: Referred to RV7 plans dwg 28 |
Steve,
I'll take the photos - please.
Also, what is the distance from the main spar to the tank/fuse attach
bracket? I haven't put my wings on yet - I'll probably have to wait till
then to do the side vent holes.....I would like to put it forward so I won't
have to go around the vertical support inside....
Thanks,
Ralph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Allison" <stevea(at)svpal.org>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 10:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Referred to RV7 plans dwg 28
>
> Ralph,
>
> I share your frustration, since I am a 6A builder and looking at 7A
> firewall forward prints. But , if I compare my original fuel line,
> brake line, vent line plans to the ones from the 7A, I feel a lot
> better. The 7A drawings actually show things in detail with isometric
> views. Wow, so thats how you route and mount all that plumbing!
> Don't give up! It is only a vent line fitting hole! :-)
>
> From the 7 preview plans: Sheet 28 only points to a pre-punched rivet
> hole in the floor pan (third in from the outside edge) with a note to
> enlarge it to 7/16" for a vent line fitting. What is missing.......the
> location of the pre-punched hole of course. Same story for the side
> fuselage vent line location. (FYI, the location of the vent line exit
> from the tank is different between the 6 and 7 drawings, so the fuselage
> side penetration is probably different too.)
>
> Here is where I put my vent lines.
> Floor pan: almost exactly where you guessed. Approx. 3..5 inches in
> from the side skin, and 1 inch aft of the firewall rivet line.
> Side skin: forward of the tank to fuselage attach bracket.
>
> Let me know if you need a better explanation. I can send you some photos.
>
> Steve
> RV-6A, with a few 7 parts attached
>
>
> Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>> OK - I almost give up......
>>
>> I got Vans Firewall foreward documentation......every time I turn around
>> I am getting referred to a page that they didn't include....
>>
>> I have been referred to RV7 plans dwg 28 for the vent line holes in the
>> lower foreward outboard corners....from what I can see on the other
>> drawings it appears to be about three inches inboard from the fuselage
>> sides and about an inch back from the firewall. Can someone look at
>> their drawing 28 and tell me what the distances are relative to what -
>> please!
>>
>> I'm looking for the same info for where the vent lines go out the sides
>> to the fuel tank - But I am not sure that the 7 and 6 are similar enough
>> to not worry about the bracket that attaches the foreward edge of the
>> fuel tank to the side of the fuselage...I remember reading that the wings
>> were different - but I don't recall how.
>>
>> Thanks loads,
>> Ralph Capen
>> RV6A N822AR @ N06 90% done 90% to go.....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tailgummer(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank "AD" |
In a message dated 2/25/2006 3:18:16 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "John Fasching"
I finally managed to download the service bulletin...can't figure out how
you'd drill a hole through the coupling nut, then thread it on tightly without
the safety wire getting involved iand jammed up in the threads...what am I
missing?
You might consider a drill jig like this:
_https://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-490-28-style-2-safety-wire-drill-jigs.aspx_
(https://www.averytools.com/cart/pc-490-28-style-2-safety-wire-drill-jigs.aspx) . Use a drill press, lots
of lube (Boelube) "peck" a little at a time and it works wonderfully. This
avoids the threads and does the job. I'd practice on a "throw-away" piece
first to get the hang of it.
Just finished complying with the SB and this worked quite well.
_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_
(mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
This a good reason to paint your fuel tanks separately when detached from
the wing. Then mount on the wing after it is painted and use either painted
or unpainted screws.
Indiana Larry, RV7 SunSeeker 90+ hours flying
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
----- Original Message -----
From: "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 5:09 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank bulletin
>
> Steve,
>
> Just use a razor blade along the edge of the tank. The paint will not
> have run under the edge enough to cause it to stick unless the painter
> REALLY loaded it up with wet paint.
>
> Dave
>
> Stephen J. Soule wrote:
>
>>
>>Dave,
>>
>>I used unpainted screws, so that's not the problem. I was thinking that
>>even
>>when the screws are out, the tank will still be stuck to the wing with
>>paint. I wondered if anybody had practical advice about how to pry the
>>tank
>>apart from the wing.
>>
>>Steve
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of D.Bristol
>>Sent: Saturday, February 25, 2006 2:44 PM
>>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel tank bulletin
>>
>>
>>
>>Good point, but when I built my 6 I painted the tanks separately and
>>used stainless screws it install them. Removal is a 1/2 hour job (after
>>they're empty). And, in my opinion they look just as good or better than
>>painted screws, and are much more serviceable.
>>BTW, I'd like to watch someone try to remove the inverted pickup with
>>the tanks installed! I think Van's is out to lunch on that one.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
What a bunch of crap! I have an experimental. I DONT have to adhere to an SB! One,
maybe 2 have come loose?? big deal. I deceide if my plane should be grounded.
and I dont think it needs to be. Besides both cases of problem came with plenty
of warning, both cases the warning was disreguarded. Charles Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Is there a solvent that will clean the pro seal off?
Is there a gasket between the fuel sender access plate and the T-408 access plate?
--------
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15110#15110
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Nope....no solvent will work after it is cured....use a razor blade. There
is supposed to be a gasket between the sender and the access plate...throw
it away and proseal the sender on. That crappy gasket is by far the single
biggest leaker on these tanks. Also put a small smudge of sealant on the
underside of each of the screw heads before you tork them down. It will
squidge out and make a perfect little gasket around the screw head.
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 7:31 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
>
> Is there a solvent that will clean the pro seal off?
>
> Is there a gasket between the fuel sender access plate and the T-408
access plate?
>
> --------
> Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> Cappy's Toy
> RV-8 N123SG
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15110#15110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Nic" <Nic(at)skyhi.flyer.co.uk> |
| Subject: | Service variations - Spruce |
Several weeks ago I posted a message concerning the variations in service I
have received whilst building my RV8 and in particular the problems
encountered in ordering a Sigtronics intercom from Aircraft Spruce.
I am pleased to say that soon after my posting the issue was resolved and I
received a personal email message from Jim Irwin (President of Aircraft
Spruce) apologising for the delay.
The Sigtronics intercom is now installed and working well and I appreciate
the help of the list in suggesting alternative suppliers and products as
well as the impetus created to resolve the problem. Jim Irwin made it clear
in his email that Spruce values the custom of RV builders very highly.
Rgds, Nic
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Ok, so when I built my tanks I thought about this and although I didn't
totally proseal the tube and connector, I did build the anti-rotation
bracket a little differently... If I were to do it again I would just
proseal the whole thing as you should never need to do anything with it
again...
I built and installed my anti-rotation bracket so that it not only keeps the
90 degree fitting from rotating, it also keeps the nut from backing off and
the tube from ever falling off...
So tell me what you all think... Do any of you think it could ever come
loose or fall off?
http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg
-Bill VonDane
RV-8A - Colorado
www.rv8a.com
www.creativair.com
www.epanelbuilder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:31 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
Is there a solvent that will clean the pro seal off?
Is there a gasket between the fuel sender access plate and the T-408 access
plate?
--------
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15110#15110
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
| From: | "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Thanks Evan. The perfect answer.
--------
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
Cappy's Toy
RV-8 N123SG
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15127#15127
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
The warning apparently wasn't disregarded. It was addressed but misdiagnosed and
the subsequent inflight engine restart checklist not followed when there was
all indications time to dig it out and follow it.
Having said that, it boils down to what the insurance company's stand is going
to be for most of us, I'm sure...
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com>
>
> What a bunch of crap! I have an experimental. I DONT have to adhere to an SB!
> One, maybe 2 have come loose?? big deal. I deceide if my plane should be
> grounded. and I dont think it needs to be. Besides both cases of problem came
> with plenty of warning, both cases the warning was disreguarded. Charles Heathco
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
The warning apparently wasn't disregarded. It was addressed but misdiagnosed and
the subsequentinflight engine restart checklist not followed when there was
all indications time to dig it out and follow it.
Having said that, it boils down to what the insurance company's stand is going
to be for most of us, I'm sure...
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "charles heathco" cheathco(at)junct.com
-- RV-List message posted by: "charles heathco"
What a bunch of crap! I have an experimental. I DONT have to adhere to an SB!
One, maybe 2 have come loose?? big deal. I deceide if my plane should be
grounded. and I dont think it needs to be. Besides both cases of problem came
with plenty of warning, both cases the warning was disreguarded. Charles Heathco
oshare, and much much more:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mts.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
I can see why this would be a problem with the flop tube but not with all
the other flare nuts - most flare nuts don't have a 1 lb hose flopping
around, attached only at one end. If this were a firewall forward hose it
would be required to be secured with Adel clamps!
>From my perspective, the whole flop tube concept is far more trouble than
it's worth for anyone other than die-hard negative-G aerobatic flyers. When
I rip into my tank to deal with this, my flop tube is coming off and will be
replaced with a solid aluminum pickup tube.
The potential for a hung-up tube, this nut loosening issue, and the
requirement to replace the flop tube periodically add up to too much
maintenance hassle and risk. (There is at least one report in the RVator of
an RV-4 with a fuel pickup problem that was attributed to a flop hose that
had deteriorated and was leaky as a sieve. That time Van's stopped short of
issuing an SB - I wonder what they would do today?)
Curt
RV-6 C-GACR
375 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 10:17 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
>
> Ok, so when I built my tanks I thought about this and although I didn't
> totally proseal the tube and connector, I did build the anti-rotation
> bracket a little differently... If I were to do it again I would just
> proseal the whole thing as you should never need to do anything with it
> again...
>
> I built and installed my anti-rotation bracket so that it not only keeps
> the
> 90 degree fitting from rotating, it also keeps the nut from backing off
> and
> the tube from ever falling off...
>
> So tell me what you all think... Do any of you think it could ever come
> loose or fall off?
>
> http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg
>
> -Bill VonDane
> RV-8A - Colorado
> www.rv8a.com
> www.creativair.com
> www.epanelbuilder.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:31 AM
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
>
>
> Is there a solvent that will clean the pro seal off?
>
> Is there a gasket between the fuel sender access plate and the T-408
> access
> plate?
>
> --------
> Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> Cappy's Toy
> RV-8 N123SG
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15110#15110
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
Listers,
What's the best method of removing tank end plates that are prosealed on?
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LARRY ADAMSON" <rvhi03(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
I once heard that a plastic butter knife works well.
What's the best method of removing tank end plates that are prosealed on?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
A sharp putty knife... been there, done that.
Randy Lervold
----- Original Message -----
From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:23 PM
Subject: RV-List: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB
>
> Listers,
>
> What's the best method of removing tank end plates that are prosealed on?
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | 1st Flight N716K |
Hi everyone,
Couldn't wait to let the list know that another RV-6A is airborne. Took
flight from Chandler, AZ this morning for 45 minutes of orbiting the field.
All temps & pressures nominal. No issues to speak of after the flight.
Straight & true with maybe a 1/4 bubble off on the rudder. Put the wheels
pants on and filled the tanks for the 2nd flight. Not today though - I need
a drink!
A big THANK YOU to all of you for your knowledge and expertise in helping me
complete this task. There are too many to list. Can't wait to burn up 40
hours and venture out to see some new friends. Still grinning.
Some specs:
kit # 22372, 2.25 years & 1900 hrs building, 1041 Lb. painted & upholstered,
O-320 w/ Emag & 9.2:1 pistons, sensenich prop, 296 Garmin & pictorial pilot,
VFR night.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Floscan and IO/360 |
Hey Folks,
Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is for
the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any really
good spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to engine heat,
although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the
divider...Any and all advice, pix more than welcome.
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
Closer & closer...
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dwight Frye <dwight(at)openweave.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
Jerry,
If I remember right (call him to verify) Don at Airflow Performance
recommends mounting it near the flow divider. I figure they have been
in the biz of making things work in the engine compartment long enough
that I'll trust their opinion. Sure saves having to shoe-horn it into
the center tunnel. I intend to find out more details next weekend when
I go down to take their "Fuel Injection 101" class as I'll have the
same issue to deal with eventually.
-- Dwight
On Sun Feb 26 17:18:55 2006, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote :
>Hey Folks,
>
>Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is for
>the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any really
>good spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to engine heat,
>although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the
>divider...Any and all advice, pix more than welcome.
>
>Jerry Cochran
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv6n6r(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | RV-6 slider air leaks |
I have the typical problem of cold air blowing at the back of my neck (and rain
coming in) through the gap where the middle canopy track is on my slider (RV-6).
Keep thinking I'll fix it somehow but I thought first I'd ask for tricks from
the -list.
I've seen the one where you put a UHMW block on a string to fill the gap -- how
well does that work? Any other tricks people have used? I'm thinking just for
the water some kind of diverter inside so at least it doesn't drip down on the
stuff in the baggage compartment.
Randall Henderson
RV-6
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 1st Flight N716K |
Congratulations Kelly! Way to go...
Darrell
Kelly Patterson wrote:
Hi everyone,
Couldn't wait to let the list know that another RV-6A is airborne. Took
flight from Chandler, AZ this morning for 45 minutes of orbiting the field.
All temps & pressures nominal. No issues to speak of after the flight.
Straight & true with maybe a 1/4 bubble off on the rudder. Put the wheels
pants on and filled the tanks for the 2nd flight. Not today though - I need
a drink!
A big THANK YOU to all of you for your knowledge and expertise in helping me
complete this task. There are too many to list. Can't wait to burn up 40
hours and venture out to see some new friends. Still grinning.
Some specs:
kit # 22372, 2.25 years & 1900 hrs building, 1041 Lb. painted & upholstered,
O-320 w/ Emag & 9.2:1 pistons, sensenich prop, 296 Garmin & pictorial pilot,
VFR night.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larygagnon(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-6 slider air leaks |
I've found the UHMW block works well on my 6 slider. I noticed a big
difference when I had to take it off after I did the Menske tip-up mod, it would
slide off the track at the cut-out and bounce around. I have to find a way to
keep it on and still allow the block to come off at the cutout to tip-up. Any
suggestions from anyone who's got both a sealing block with the tip-up mod?
I've had more leaks along the side as it seems to bow out slightly at cruise
speeds. I have an L shaped soft seal I will try the next time I fly. Even with
stick and pushrod boots I still get air in through the floor, I believe from
the wing root area ahead of the spar.
Larry Gagnon
RV6 N6LG slider 100 hours
RV6A Finish kit with tip up this time
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel cap water protection? |
My 6A spends an appreciable amount of time outside in the weather. I have
some fuel cap covers from Sporty's, but they are not doing the job. Some
time back I remember seeing an ad for a cover which I am convinced will do a
better job. As I remember it was about 12" in diameter and was constructed
of a soft plyable rubber or plastic and had lead shot or some other heavy
material blended in with the rubber. It was heavy and soft and when placed
over the fuel cap if assumed the shape of the wing surface and effectively
sealed out water intrusion into the tank through the cap. Its weight and
plyability assured that it was in contact with the wing surface and would
not blow off.
If anyone could supply the name of the seller of this or a similar item, I
would be grateful.
Charlie Ennis
N60CE 50hrs and counting.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Floscan and IO/360 |
Mine is mounted between the fuel servo and the flow divider, per
instructions. I didn't see any reason to change to any other location.
Dave
Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>Hey Folks,
>
>Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is for
>the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any really
>good spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to engine heat,
>although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the
>divider...Any and all advice, pix more than welcome.
>
>Jerry Cochran
>Wilsonville, OR
>Closer & closer...
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Bill,
Your design reminds me of the phrase "A snowball's chance in hell" :-)
Charlie Kuss
>
>Ok, so when I built my tanks I thought about this and although I didn't
>totally proseal the tube and connector, I did build the anti-rotation
>bracket a little differently... If I were to do it again I would just
>proseal the whole thing as you should never need to do anything with it
>again...
>
>I built and installed my anti-rotation bracket so that it not only keeps the
>90 degree fitting from rotating, it also keeps the nut from backing off and
>the tube from ever falling off...
>
>So tell me what you all think... Do any of you think it could ever come
>loose or fall off?
>
>http://www.rv8a.com/tanks/ps4.jpg
>
>-Bill VonDane
>RV-8A - Colorado
>www.rv8a.com
>www.creativair.com
>www.epanelbuilder.com
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
>To:
>Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 8:31 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
>
>
>Is there a solvent that will clean the pro seal off?
>
>Is there a gasket between the fuel sender access plate and the T-408 access
>plate?
>
>--------
>Steve Glasgow-Cappy
>Cappy's Toy
>RV-8 N123SG
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15110#15110
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank bulletin |
There have been at least 2 accidents due to the loose flare nut fitting. I
totaled my RV-6 31/2 years ago due to this problem. There was 6.5 gallons
left in the tank, not 3.5. I informed Vans about it and never received a
reply. There was a short note in the RVator 2-3 years ago addressing this
problem. It was done by a contributor, not Van's staff. I prosealed the nuts
on my current RV-9.
Don Piermattei
RV-9 90411
Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
5000 E County Rd 92
Carr, CO 80612
970/568-9047
Fax 970/568-7279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Floscan and IO/360 |
Hello Dwight,
Please post information on the list regarding the Floscan location after
your class.
Best regards,
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dwight Frye
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:18 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Floscan and IO/360
Jerry,
If I remember right (call him to verify) Don at Airflow Performance
recommends mounting it near the flow divider. I figure they have been
in the biz of making things work in the engine compartment long enough
that I'll trust their opinion. Sure saves having to shoe-horn it into
the center tunnel. I intend to find out more details next weekend when
I go down to take their "Fuel Injection 101" class as I'll have the
same issue to deal with eventually.
-- Dwight
On Sun Feb 26 17:18:55 2006, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote :
>Hey Folks,
>
>Anyone with an injected engine have pix of their Floscan setup? This is
for
>the center tunnel ala RV7-7a with center boost pump. I don't see any
really
>good spots inside the firewall and would rather not subject it to
engine heat,
>although one guy in the archives mounted it just upstream from the
>divider...Any and all advice, pix more than welcome.
>
>Jerry Cochran
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
| From: | "bdjones1965" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Not sure about everyone else out there, but I kind of doubt my flop tube is "flopping"
around very much at all. It may shift around side to side a little and
maybe once every year or two I'll really botch something and get negative.
Other than that, I'd be more worried about the weight wearing a hole in the bottom
of the tank where it's sitting in 99+% of the time.
I find two things really curious. One is why Van has apparently crossed into the
grayness of liability and appears to have assumed some partial role as manufacturer
by sending out these Service Bulletins. This "SB" looks and smells just
like one you might get from a *manufacturer*. And his wording was just too
much like that of a manufacturer as well.
Second, speaking of risk, I have several other hose fittings in my plane that *will*
cause engine stoppage - maybe I need to safety those as well. A flop tube
connection failure *may* cause stoppage, and should be recoverable by switching
tanks.
This flop-tube item is pretty far down on the priority list for me. Not to mention
that I specifically remember tightening that nut very well.
But now Van's has me concerned about the applicability of my insurance if I don't
comply with this overreactive "SB", while not being worried about the airworthiness
of my plane. Gee, I would expect this kind of treatment from Cessna,
Piper or Lycoming.
Bryan RV-8
Houston, Texas
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15240#15240
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap water protection? |
Can't speak for anybody else, but I use a fair amount of fuelube (EZ-turn)
on my fuel caps. My plane has sat out in the rain for extended periods
while travelling (5 days in a row of T-storms) and I haven't seen any water
in the tanks. I think fuelube on the shaft and O rings does a decent job
sealing out the water. Just my personal opinion/experience.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (827 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:49 PM
Subject: RV-List: Fuel cap water protection?
>
> My 6A spends an appreciable amount of time outside in the weather. I have
> some fuel cap covers from Sporty's, but they are not doing the job. Some
> time back I remember seeing an ad for a cover which I am convinced will do
> a
> better job. As I remember it was about 12" in diameter and was constructed
> of a soft plyable rubber or plastic and had lead shot or some other heavy
> material blended in with the rubber. It was heavy and soft and when placed
> over the fuel cap if assumed the shape of the wing surface and effectively
> sealed out water intrusion into the tank through the cap. Its weight and
> plyability assured that it was in contact with the wing surface and would
> not blow off.
> If anyone could supply the name of the seller of this or a similar item, I
> would be grateful.
> Charlie Ennis
> N60CE 50hrs and counting.
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
Hi Donald
Thanks for sharing that information.
Reading about pipe flares today and found that over tightening can cause
damage to the tube possibly causing failure, also cracks and deformities
in a flare are not acceptable.
Two questions for you - did the investigation find that the AN 818 nut
came completely off the bulkhead fitting allowing the pickup tube to
drop off, or had the nut just loosened allowing the fuel pump to suck air?
Was there any previous symptom of a fuel flow problem?
Thanks,
George in Langley BC
>
>There have been at least 2 accidents due to the loose flare nut fitting. I
>totaled my RV-6 31/2 years ago due to this problem. There was 6.5 gallons
>left in the tank, not 3.5. I informed Vans about it and never received a
>reply. There was a short note in the RVator 2-3 years ago addressing this
>problem. It was done by a contributor, not Van's staff. I prosealed the nuts
>on my current RV-9.
>Don Piermattei
>RV-9 90411
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 1st Flight N716K |
Kelly,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RV-List: 1st Flight N716K
>Date: Sun, 26 Feb 2006 14:44:04 -0700
>
>
>Hi everyone,
>
>Couldn't wait to let the list know that another RV-6A is airborne. Took
>flight from Chandler, AZ this morning for 45 minutes of orbiting the field.
>All temps & pressures nominal. No issues to speak of after the flight.
>Straight & true with maybe a 1/4 bubble off on the rudder.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LUCKYMACY(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
Cc: support(at)vansaircraft.com, info(at)vansaircraft.com
| Subject: | Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
Can someone relatively local like Randy get over to Van's during business hours
and have a face to face discussion with Richard himself and see why they didn't
soften up the language initially? We might find something else like it wasn't
just 2 or 3 RVs that had incidences or something more factual along those
lines.
Ask for all of us on the 'net if he would reconsider softening the language like
saying proseal would have been an acceptable method - just for all those thousands
of flyers with insurance companies to worry about immediately?
Thanks,
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "bdjones1965" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com>
>
> Not sure about everyone else out there, but I kind of doubt my flop tube is
> "flopping" around very much at all. It may shift around side to side a little
> and maybe once every year or two I'll really botch something and get negative.
> Other than that, I'd be more worried about the weight wearing a hole in the
> bottom of the tank where it's sitting in 99+% of the time.
>
> I find two things really curious. One is why Van has apparently crossed into
> the grayness of liability and appears to have assumed some partial role as
> manufacturer by sending out these Service Bulletins. This "SB" looks and smells
> just like one you might get from a *manufacturer*. And his wording was just too
> much like that of a manufacturer as well.
>
> Second, speaking of risk, I have several other hose fittings in my plane that
> *will* cause engine stoppage - maybe I need to safety those as well. A flop
> tube connection failure *may* cause stoppage, and should be recoverable by
> switching tanks.
>
> This flop-tube item is pretty far down on the priority list for me. Not to
> mention that I specifically remember tightening that nut very well.
>
> But now Van's has me concerned about the applicability of my insurance if I
> don't comply with this overreactive "SB", while not being worried about the
> airworthiness of my plane. Gee, I would expect this kind of treatment from
> Cessna, Piper or Lycoming.
>
> Bryan RV-8
> Houston, Texas
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15240#15240
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Can someone relatively local like Randy get over to Van's during business hours
and have a face to face discussion withRichard himself and see why they didn't
soften up the language initially? We might find something elselike it wasn't
just 2 or 3 RVs that had incidences or somethingmore factual along those lines.
Ask for all of us on the 'net if he would reconsider softening the language like
saying proseal would have been an acceptable method - just for all those thousands
of flyers with insurance companies to worry about immediately?
Thanks,
Lucky
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "bdjones1965" rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com
-- RV-List message posted by: "bdjones1965"
Not sure about everyone else out there, but I kind of doubt my flop tube is
"flopping" around very much at all. It may shift around side to side a little
and maybe once every year or two I'll really botch something and get negative.
Other than that, I'd be more worried about the weight wearing a hole in the
bottom of the tank where it's sitting in 99+% of the time.
I find two things really curious. One is why Van has apparently crossed into
the grayness of liability and appears to have assumed some partial role as
manufacturer by sending out these Service Bulletins. This "SB" looks and smells
just like one you
might get from a *manufacturer*. And his wording was just too
much like that of a manufacturer as well.
Second, speaking of risk, I have several other hose fittings in my plane that
*will* cause engine stoppage - maybe I need to safety those as well. A flop
tube connection failure *may* cause stoppage, and should be recoverable by
switching tanks.
This flop-tube item is pretty far down on the priority list for me. Not to
mention that I specifically remember tightening that nut very well.
But now Van's has me concerned about the applicability of my insurance if I
don't comply with this overreactive "SB", while not being worried about the
airworthiness of my plane. Gee, I would expect this kind of treatment from
Cessna, Piper or Lycoming.
Bryan RV-8
Houston, Texas
Read this topic on
line here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=15240#15240
&g
t;
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
Yes, when I informed them of my finding the Flop Tube having fallen off -
they really did not seem interested. I presume this comes from the fact
that there are hundreds/thousands of Rv's who have never had the problem (at
least - not yet). Did you have extended fuel capacity in your Rv-6? I
drained the tank immediately after the incident (within 30 minutes) and the
fuel remaining was 3.5 gallons in my case (Rv-6A).
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
> There have been at least 2 accidents due to the loose flare nut fitting.
> I
> totaled my RV-6 31/2 years ago due to this problem. There was 6.5 gallons
> left in the tank, not 3.5. I informed Vans about it and never received a
> reply. There was a short note in the RVator 2-3 years ago addressing this
> problem. It was done by a contributor, not Van's staff. I prosealed the
> nuts
> on my current RV-9.
> Don Piermattei
> RV-9 90411
>
> Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
> 5000 E County Rd 92
> Carr, CO 80612
> 970/568-9047
> Fax 970/568-7279
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap water protection? |
I too use fuelube on the big O-ring in the fuel caps. I recently had my
plane parked outside for 7 weeks while our runways were widened. I did not
find any water in my tanks during the time and it rained quite hard a few
times during the time.
You could always use a couple pieces of electricians tape and do a good job
of sealing over the caps.
Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying
----- Original Message -----
>
> Can't speak for anybody else, but I use a fair amount of fuelube (EZ-turn)
> on my fuel caps. My plane has sat out in the rain for extended periods
> while travelling (5 days in a row of T-storms) and I haven't seen any
> water
> in the tanks. I think fuelube on the shaft and O rings does a decent job
> sealing out the water. Just my personal opinion/experience.
>
> )_( Dan
> RV-7 N714D (827 hours)
> http://www.rvproject.com
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 5:49 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Fuel cap water protection?
>
>
>>
>> My 6A spends an appreciable amount of time outside in the weather. I have
>> some fuel cap covers from Sporty's, but they are not doing the job. Some
>> time back I remember seeing an ad for a cover which I am convinced will
>> do
>> a
>> better job. As I remember it was about 12" in diameter and was
>> constructed
>> of a soft plyable rubber or plastic and had lead shot or some other heavy
>> material blended in with the rubber. It was heavy and soft and when
>> placed
>> over the fuel cap if assumed the shape of the wing surface and
>> effectively
>> sealed out water intrusion into the tank through the cap. Its weight and
>> plyability assured that it was in contact with the wing surface and would
>> not blow off.
>> If anyone could supply the name of the seller of this or a similar item,
>> I
>> would be grateful.
>> Charlie Ennis
>> N60CE 50hrs and counting.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel cap water protection? |
>
> Can't speak for anybody else, but I use a fair amount of
> fuelube (EZ-turn) on my fuel caps. My plane has sat out in
> the rain for extended periods while travelling (5 days in a
> row of T-storms) and I haven't seen any water in the tanks.
> I think fuelube on the shaft and O rings does a decent job
> sealing out the water. Just my personal opinion/experience.
>
> )_( Dan
Ah, Dan the warm California Man,
I tried EZ Turn a while back - don't use it if the temperature is going to
be below about freezing. It becomes really stiff when cold. There was a
time when the OAT was around 10F where I could NOT get the caps off.
Fortunately, I was at the home base and simply taxied back to the hangar. I
spent a lot of time getting the crud out of the caps. I now spray some
Tri-Flow under the O-rings from time to time, which reduces the friction
enough that I can adjust the caps to adequately seal. It was amazing how
much more I could compress the big o-ring after putting Tri-Flow in there.
I have also used a spray white grease, same effect.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 719 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
>Now we know that Dana does not have a sure thing with the weather. Next
>year I will at least take a look at some forecasting or call ATC for a
>weather briefing. (just kidding I did that and came over anyway). It
>stretched my envelope a bit. When I got back home to Evansville, I had to
>divert to another airport to get it landed. But it worked out. Sunday I
>flew :SunSeeker" back to its hangar.
Here is good pilot judgement. Compare that with the three DC area
accidents that killed seven people over the weekend.
http://tinyurl.com/k7gc9
Ron Lee
Do archive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
Dave:
It can be either. The Lycoming "kits" are assembled by professional
engine shops (only 5 shops to ensure highest quality standards.) The
Lycoming kits are all certified parts, but are considered experimental
because they are not assembled at the factory. Superior/ECI offers kits
that can be assembled by the builder or by the engine shop of choice.
Rhonda
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
Okay, I plead ignorance here. When I see the words
"kit engine", I think a kit of parts and I build my
own engine. Is this correct? Or is a kit engine an
engine built by pros to my specs?
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
Dana, I know of a super 7 based at 5C1. Beorne Tx, would be practically the same,
Email me off list for details if you like, Charlie H
________________________________________________________________________________
Dana,
Check out "Barnes Stormer" N183SB; Very similar to the Super 6.
The builder flew with Boyd in the Super 6, and LIKED IT!
Rolf
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin) |
G McNutt wrote:
>
>Hi Donald
>
>Thanks for sharing that information.
>Reading about pipe flares today and found that over tightening can cause
>damage to the tube possibly causing failure
>
Very true. AN tubing fittings should be really 'snug' without acting
like a gorilla. Somewhere (I don't remember where!) I saw some
recommendations on torque ...... and they were surprisingly small.
>, also cracks and deformities in a flare are not acceptable.
>
An understatement, to be sure. Getting a good flare takes the same
practice that good riveting does, and shares some of the same
operations. I use a file to 'square off the end' of the tubing, making
it flat, and removing most of the 'pinch' caused by the tubing cutter.
I use the 'reamer' to further clean up the inside of the tube end.
Making sure the cone of the flaring tool is centered in the tube, I
turn the handle a little and back it off, much like using a hole tap.
Sometimes I use a silicone lubricant, sometimes not. I know it can't
hurt!!!
After the flaring tool bottoms out ..... think snug again ..... take the
flaring tool off and inspect the inside of the flare fore cracks, the
flare being off-center, and any scoring that may be there. If the flare
isn't perfect .... make another piece.
Also, inspect the backside of the flare too, and the grooves left on the
tube by the flaring tube. The nipple should slide up to the flare
without any dragging. Dress the ridges a little if you need to.
Here's what I find (IMHO) screws up a flare: Cracks are caused by
flaring too fast; give the aluminum time to flow a little ...... and
leaving too much tubing stickiing out of the tubing holder ..... along
with not properly dressing up the end of the tube.
Having the flare cone off center will pretty much guarantee a leak ....
which folks solve by using a pipe extension on their wrench an over
tighten the nut. I've never really seen folks do that ..... but it's a
good (bad) picture!
As for the problem with flop tubes in the tank. IMHO (and you need to
remember that!) I can't for the life of me understand how a properly
flared tube and properly tightened nut work their way loose. I'm sorry,
but from my armchair-quarterback position, I think the nuts weren't
properly tightened. I'm not familiar with the flop tube arrangement, so
there may be something that I'm missing here. Do a simple test. Put
flares on a piece of tubing ..... say 4" long, and tighten a flare
fitting in each end. Hold one end in a vise and put a wrench on the
fitting on the other end (not the nut!) Now turn the fitting (twisting
the tubing) How much torque did you have to apply to make either
fitting slip???? Whatta you mean the tubing failed??? OK. Now put a
wrench on the neu (either one will do, but use the nut on the vise end).
and tell me how much torque it takes to loosen the nut just a little.
Alot? Hmmm. Now, ask yourself just where did all the rotational force
come from to loosen a properly tightened nut??? Vibration???? Ya gotta
be kidding. Vibration that would loosen your flare fittings would be
unmanageable, and your gyro based instruments would fail rapidly as an
indicator.
Now, before you flame me, just remember that I'm making observations
here. I'm not highly trained in tubing/flaring/tightening ...... just
the 25 years of building/owning/maintaining an experimental airplane.
It's so easy to forget to tighten a screw, nut, or any other type of
fastener, while you're building or repairing or ...... Just think of
all the fittings in airplanes all over the globe .... and ask yourself
what would happen if there was even a small percentage of fittings that
loosen under use. They'd have places already drilled for safety wire,
cotter pins, or some other safety method.
OK, now someone else can use the soapbox. All I ask is for y'all to be
methodical and safe out there!!!
Linn ..... I can stand the heat
>Two questions for you - did the investigation find that the AN 818 nut
>came completely off the bulkhead fitting allowing the pickup tube to
>drop off, or had the nut just loosened allowing the fuel pump to suck air?
>Was there any previous symptom of a fuel flow problem?
>
>Thanks,
>
>George in Langley BC
>
>
>
>
>
>>There have been at least 2 accidents due to the loose flare nut fitting. I
>>totaled my RV-6 31/2 years ago due to this problem. There was 6.5 gallons
>>left in the tank, not 3.5. I informed Vans about it and never received a
>>reply. There was a short note in the RVator 2-3 years ago addressing this
>>problem. It was done by a contributor, not Van's staff. I prosealed the nuts
>>on my current RV-9.
>>Don Piermattei
>>RV-9 90411
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
>>Okay, I plead ignorance here. When I see the words
>>"kit engine", I think a kit of parts and I build my
>>own engine. Is this correct?
>
> Your are entirely correct. For around 13.5 you can get a real nice ECI
> that
> you "put together".
>
>
> Dana Overall
Do they include a step by step construction manual?
Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | High HP O-360 engine |
Reading about the Super 7 I have some questions to ask about
getting a higher than 180 HP engine out of an O-360. (not IO
or angle valve)
You can put higher compression pistons in for some increase
above that provide by 8.5:1. Obviously there are pros and cons.
Other than not being able to use autogas how would one determine
how high to go (9.2, 9.5, 10:1)?
Supposedly there is a high torque Camshaft. More torque must be good.
Porting and polishing of something is mentioned.
Angle cut of the valves may offer something.
Where is the highest/most cost-effective pay-off in getting more horsepower
from an O-360?
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Flop Tube rubbing was Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Bryan,
I was concerned about the flop tube wearing or scratching the fuel
tank skin myself. The weight on the end of the tube comes with a soft
Viton O-ring installed. It's purpose is to act as a skid. It keeps
the brass weight off of the skin. It's quite soft and not well
retained on the weight. I worried that it would either "roll off" the
weight or simply wear down after a few years.
I replaced the O-ring with an appropriately sized washer, made of
Delrin. I had to really stuggle to get the washer installed. There is
NO way that thing will "roll off" or wear down in a short period of
time. I can supply 2 slightly blurry photos off list, to anyone who
wants to see them.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Not sure about everyone else out there, but I kind of doubt my flop
>tube is "flopping" around very much at all. It may shift around
>side to side a little and maybe once every year or two I'll really
>botch something and get negative. Other than that, I'd be more
>worried about the weight wearing a hole in the bottom of the tank
>where it's sitting in 99+% of the time.
>snipped
>Bryan RV-8
>Houston, Texas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank bulletin |
The flare nut for the regular fuel pickup is higher than the one for
the inverted fuel pickup. So it is reasonable to assume that fuel
remaining after the failure would be greater.
Kevin Horton
On 27 Feb 2006, at 07:41, Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>
>
> Yes, when I informed them of my finding the Flop Tube having
> fallen off -
> they really did not seem interested. I presume this comes from the
> fact
> that there are hundreds/thousands of Rv's who have never had the
> problem (at
> least - not yet). Did you have extended fuel capacity in your
> Rv-6? I
> drained the tank immediately after the incident (within 30 minutes)
> and the
> fuel remaining was 3.5 gallons in my case (Rv-6A).
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>
>
>>
>>
>> There have been at least 2 accidents due to the loose flare nut
>> fitting.
>> I
>> totaled my RV-6 31/2 years ago due to this problem. There was 6.5
>> gallons
>> left in the tank, not 3.5. I informed Vans about it and never
>> received a
>> reply. There was a short note in the RVator 2-3 years ago
>> addressing this
>> problem. It was done by a contributor, not Van's staff. I
>> prosealed the
>> nuts
>> on my current RV-9.
>> Don Piermattei
>> RV-9 90411
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Van's is selling a new kind of tank sealant with a 4 month shelf life. I
have had a can of the old stuff in my refrigerator for at least two years,
maybe twice that, and every time I use some it seems to work fine.
Terry
This is from their current web catalog:
Fuel Tank Sealant
Required Sealant for Building Your Tanks
Description
MC-236-B2 (Quart Kit)
The recommended sealer for RV fuel tanks, replaces older ProSeal. Limited
shelf life (approximately 4 months from purchase). Order the Quart Kit when
ready to seal tanks. With careful application, one can should do one
airplane, even the larger RV-7 and RV-8 tanks, but many builders use more.
Includes accelerator.Sealing compound and accelerator are mixed by WEIGHT at
a ratio of 10:1. Save yourself a call. We know that the quart can does not
contain a full quart of sealant. This is normal. :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
| Subject: | Fuel tank bulletin |
Hi Donald
Thanks for sharing that information.
Reading about pipe flares today and found that over tightening can cause
damage to the tube possibly causing failure, also cracks and deformities in a
flare are not acceptable.
Two questions for you - did the investigation find that the AN 818 nut came
completely off the bulkhead fitting allowing the pickup tube to drop off, or
had the nut just loosened allowing the fuel pump to suck air?
Was there any previous symptom of a fuel flow problem?
The pick up tube was completely loose. There were no previous indications as I
apparently had never let that tank get that low in 175 hours of operation.
Donald L. Piermattei DVM, PhD
5000 E County Rd 92
Carr, CO 80612
970/568-9047
Fax 970/568-7279
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <erichweaver(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | annodized instrument panel? |
Greeting
I was considering anodizing my instrument panel to a color of my choice rather
than painting or powder coating. Any drawbacks to this, asthetic or otherwise?
regards
Erich Weaver
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
Dana,
Bob 'Rocketboy' Gross now owns the plane. He has it up for sale on his
'Rocketboy' website at:
_http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/_ (http://www.f1-rocketboy.com/)
There is no substitute for cubic inches.....
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - RV6 Sold, RV8 completed, RV4 ready
for paint, RV10 and F1 Rocket under construction
_http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/_
(http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/)
for the archives
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: annodized instrument panel? |
It will fade in the sun.
Greeting
I was considering anodizing my instrument panel to a color of my choice rather
than painting or powder coating. Any drawbacks to this, asthetic or otherwise?
regards
Erich Weaver
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
I've done it too. Slip putty knife in carefully and try not to
scrape/scratch up the metal too badly. Clean it thoroughly before
re-prosealing. I left the cork off. There was an article on leaving it off
in the rv-ator at one time. That is what I did and no leaks.
Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB
>
> A sharp putty knife... been there, done that.
>
> Randy Lervold
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Jerry2DT(at)aol.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, February 26, 2006 12:23 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB
>
>
>>
>> Listers,
>>
>> What's the best method of removing tank end plates that are prosealed
>> on?
>>
>> Jerry Cochran
>> Wilsonville, OR
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Sherwin williams GBP-988 vs. Dupont A-4115S |
| From: | David Karlsberg <claypride(at)hotmail.com> |
Okay so my friendly neighborhood autopaint store switched from sherwin
williams to dupont paints. I am building a 7 and am almost through the
tail. I used gbp-988 to prime most of it. Is Dupont A-4115S the same stuff
(the guy at the store told me it pretty much is). I know it is a little
darker, but I am not too concerned about the color. Are there any other
tangible differences?
Thanks,
David Karlsberg
7-tail
Beverly Hills
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | My response to fuel tank bulletin |
>Was there any previous symptom of a fuel flow problem?
>
>The pick up tube was completely loose. There were no previous indications
>as I
>apparently had never let that tank get that low in 175 hours of operation.
Based upon the above here is my way of checking it:
Maintain at least 12 gallons in the opposite tank and fly the suspect tank
down to 3 gallons or less while within reasonable range of a suitable landing
area.
If there are no signs of fuel flow interruption then that tank fitting is
currently
good. Repeat every 100 hours.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
Cc: "Stewart, Michael \(ISS Atlanta\)"
| Subject: | Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft |
Lycoming has asked me (and hundreds/thousands of others?) to retire my
crankshaft at my convenience, or February 21, 2009, whichever comes first.
Check the Mandatory Service Bulletin from Lycoming to see if it applies to
you, but it looks like just counterweighted 360s and 390s that will be
affected RV-wise, and maybe a handful of 540s on Rockets and Supers. My
crankshaft serial # is right there in the list. Here's the SB:
http://tinyurl.com/lh54h
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (828 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap water protection? |
On 27 Feb 2006, at 08:36, Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
> I tried EZ Turn a while back - don't use it if the temperature is
> going to
> be below about freezing. It becomes really stiff when cold. There
> was a
> time when the OAT was around 10F where I could NOT get the caps off.
> Fortunately, I was at the home base and simply taxied back to the
> hangar. I
> spent a lot of time getting the crud out of the caps. I now spray
> some
> Tri-Flow under the O-rings from time to time, which reduces the
> friction
> enough that I can adjust the caps to adequately seal. It was
> amazing how
> much more I could compress the big o-ring after putting Tri-Flow in
> there.
> I have also used a spray white grease, same effect.
Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the same
effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank SB - Ordered the Goo & Parts |
I went ahead and ordered some pro-seal and a couple of new fuel pick-up's from
Van's yesterday. The order shipped today.
I'm not looking forward to doing this job (I prosealed the you-know-what out of
the access cover, screws, and everything else in there. Also, I'm running kind
of low on free time these days.), but a couple of things made me bite the bullet:
1) My pick-up tubes are the old-school variety (a piece of aluminum tube with a
series of bandsaw cuts), and I never liked 'em.
2) I'll enjoy flying my airplane more if I know I've done everything in my power
to make sure my airplane is as safe as I can make it.
My opinion is that the SB is a bit strong, but Van does have the obligation of
notifying builders of problems or potential problems in their design, and probably
has some liability in this area. Could they have done it in a better way?
Maybe. Then again, maybe not. There really isn't a good way to verify how tight
that nut is without pulling the access plate, and if you go that far, you
might as well carry out the SB.
My other opinion is that this is going to be a 2 day job with plenty of scraped
knuckles and the real possibility of stripping out a few phillips screws.
Presumably the airplane will be down a week or more, given that there are two tanks
to fix and that the proseal has to cure before you can check for leaks.
One positive - I have an excuse to go flying a bunch this week. I've gotta burn
off the full tank(s) of fuel I just bought. No place to store 35-40 gallons
of fuel in the hangar...
KB
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Primary Wars IV, was: Sherwin williams GBP-988 vs. Dupont A-4115S |
Oh Lord, here comes "The Primer Wars"
AAAhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Okay, lets see if I can block every primer related email for the next 3 weeks.
David Karlsberg wrote:
Okay so my friendly neighborhood autopaint store switched from sherwin
williams to dupont paints. I am building a 7 and am almost through the
tail. I used gbp-988 to prime most of it. Is Dupont A-4115S the same stuff
(the guy at the store told me it pretty much is). I know it is a little
darker, but I am not too concerned about the color. Are there any other
tangible differences?
Thanks,
David Karlsberg
7-tail
Beverly Hills
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft |
Ouch. Sure wish there was an alternative to the Lycoming's of the world.
Such quality control issues for the prices we pay are just inexcusable.
John Jessen
~328 (Tailcone)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 6:16 PM
Cc: Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)
Subject: RV-List: Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft
Lycoming has asked me (and hundreds/thousands of others?) to retire my
crankshaft at my convenience, or February 21, 2009, whichever comes first.
Check the Mandatory Service Bulletin from Lycoming to see if it applies to
you, but it looks like just counterweighted 360s and 390s that will be
affected RV-wise, and maybe a handful of 540s on Rockets and Supers. My
crankshaft serial # is right there in the list. Here's the SB:
http://tinyurl.com/lh54h
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (828 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net> |
I understand the pain in cleaning off and using Pro seal, the confined
space on a 6A to do the work etc. What I don't hear any concerns about is
the potentially explosive dilemma (pun intended) of working with various
tools on a recently drained fuel tank undoubtedly awash with 100LL fumes.
How does one insure that fumes are gone w/o flushing tank with something?
For those that have already dealt with the SB how did you handle this issue?
Thanks
Dick RV6A
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB - Ordered the Goo & Parts |
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
kboatright1(at)comcast.ne wrote:
> I went ahead and ordered some pro-seal and a couple of new fuel pick-up's from
Van's yesterday. The order shipped today.
> I'm not looking forward to doing this job (I prosealed the you-know-what out
of the access cover, screws, and everything else in there............
> KB
I too ordered a couple of fresh gaskets over the weekend but am a bit bemused by
the number of people who prosealed the fuel tank access covers on in the first
place. I just did it the way an Orndorff video demonstrated....with medium
weight Titeseal. No problems at all and will certainly make this unexpected
SB compliance much easier to deal with though I cannot comment on the cleanup
of the remaining Titeseal goo slathered all over the place until I get in there
and work at it! But at least I know the covers will come off without major
difficulty. I plan on documenting the whole process using a series of digital
photos entered into the log book as a supplement to the written word much as I
did when I removed, refurbished and reinstalled the left fuel tank into my aging
spam-can. Well, if my plane is going to be down anyway....I'll probably start
the clock ticking a bit early and bump its annual condition inspection up
by 4 weeks and get that accomplished at the same time.
I try to look at all this as FUN......yea right.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 110 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=18222#18222
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Hi Peter,
I took out the comment about archiving so this will go into the
archive. I understand you being upset about tearing up your new paint
job because you don't have access plates. I don't know what model of RV
you have but on my RV-7 wings, purchased in Sept. 2001, Van's shipped
solid round access covers with my capacitance sending units. The reason
was so you could get into the tanks if you needed to. Looks like it
will be easier to comply with the SB for the current fleet of 7's and 9's.
For anyone now building, it looks like building the tanks with the
access covers would be a good idea.
Steve Eberhart
RV-7A, ready to join the tail cone and center section.
Peter Blake wrote:
>
>Here's the letter and e-mail I sent to Van.
>
>February 27, 2006
>
>Dear Van,
>
>I was very surprised and disappointed on seeing your Mandatory Service
>Bulletin requiring fuel tank changes. In my case, I have capacitive probes
>for fuel quantity measurement, and no inspection plate to remove. Even if I
>did have plates, theres less than a 2 gap between the wing skins and
>fuselage of my RV6. I wont whine about tearing up very expensive paint, or
>removing the wings to get at the tank, or even that this may cause an
>insurance problem if I fail to do it. Instead, I question your logic and
>your process of issuing this bulletin.
>
>Im wondering why you didnt at least have a comment period so you could
>gather input from the fleet, before issuing this bulletin. The FAA finds
>public comment useful; Im surprised you dont as well.
>
>I have heard of two incidents involving alleged (your term) fuel pick-up
>tube problems. In one, there was plenty of warning that something was
>amiss, yet the plane was flown anyway (rather than ground tested), without
>determining and rectifying root cause. Even then, it seems that simply
>switching tanks would have prevented the accident. In the second instance,
>switching tanks would have prevented the accident as well. How many times
>have we heard of fuel starvation accidents where the pilot failed to switch
>tanks, even though plenty of fuel was available in the other? It seems to
>me that pilot error was a major contributing factor in these accidents.
>Perhaps an article on the importance of proper emergency procedures for
>engine-out emergencies would have been appropriate, since that would address
>prevention of such fuel starvation accidents.
>
>Given a fleet of approximately 4500 aircraft, 2 incidents (both of which
>could have been prevented by appropriate pilot action) represents an
>accident rate of 0.044 %. This level of risk doesnt seem sufficient to
>warrant the draconian nature of your service bulletin especially
>unilaterally, without comment.
>
>Further, it seems to me that a vanishingly small probability exists that one
>tank would be dry while the fuel pick-up tube malfunctioned in the other, or
>that both tubes malfunctioned at the same time. These seem to me to be the
>only conditions under which an engine stoppage due to fuel pick-up tube
>malfunction could not be rectified by appropriate pilot action e.g.,
>switching tanks.
>
>Many will say that you did this to protect yourself from liability a
>completely understandable motive. It seems to me however, that mandating
>the opening of 9000 fuel tanks by amateurs, drilling of holes in sensitive
>areas, resealing etc. (and in the case of those of us with capacitance
>senders and no removable end plate, creating and sealing a large hole), not
>to mention the obvious danger of fire when working around aviation gasoline
>and fumes, is a case of the cure being worse than the disease. It seems to
>me that you expose your company to much more liability in the case of
>accidents that will be construed as directly or indirectly caused by or
>related to these repairs.
>
>It seems to me that a more rational approach would be to mandate a bore
>scope inspection of the fuel pick-up tubes, which could be accomplished with
>minimum fuss through the fuel drain plug hole. This would identify any
>problems, go a long way toward protecting you from fuel pick-up tube
>liability, and avoid entirely the liability of causing 9000 fuel tanks to be
>drained (and not flushed with water), opened, modified and reclosed.
>
>I encourage you to consider all the ramifications of your actions, first and
>foremost with regard to safety. Secondly, with regard to the thousands of
>hours (and dollars) required for fleet compliance, and thirdly, with regard
>to your reputation for pragmatism, concern for costs, and generally doing
>the right thing.
>
>Please rescind this bulletin, and issue another, more appropriate to the
>actual risk-benefit relationships in this issue.
>
>Sincerely,
>Peter Blake
>RV6
>e-Mail: pblake(at)epix.net
>
>
>Peter H. Blake, Ph.D.
>PrcisTrial LLC
>60 Beverly Drive
>Kintnersville, PA 18930
>
>Office +01.610.847.8478
>Cell +01.215.519.4603
>Fax +01.610.847.8160
>e-Mail PHB(at)PrcisTrial.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB |
On 27 Feb 2006, at 19:52, Richard Seiders wrote:
>
> I understand the pain in cleaning off and using Pro seal, the confined
> space on a 6A to do the work etc. What I don't hear any concerns
> about is
> the potentially explosive dilemma (pun intended) of working with
> various
> tools on a recently drained fuel tank undoubtedly awash with 100LL
> fumes.
> How does one insure that fumes are gone w/o flushing tank with
> something?
> For those that have already dealt with the SB how did you handle
> this issue?
I don't see how any of the operations that need to be done on the
tank could possibly ignite any fumes, if you only use hand tools.
Scraping proseal with a putty knife certainly won't cause a spark,
nor would unscrewing the screws. I wouldn't use an electric drill to
unscrew the screws though.
Bring your plane up here, and I'll do the job for you. I'll need to
do 25 or 30 hours of flight testing to be sure the pickups are
working right when I'm done, but my rates are pretty low for RV
owners :)
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB |
>>I understand the pain in cleaning off and using Pro seal, the confined
>> space on a 6A to do the work etc. What I don't hear any concerns
>> about is
>> the potentially explosive dilemma (pun intended) of working with
>> various
>> tools on a recently drained fuel tank undoubtedly awash with 100LL
>> fumes.
>> How does one insure that fumes are gone w/o flushing tank with
>> something?
>> For those that have already dealt with the SB how did you handle
>> this issue?
There is no way I know to safely flush the fuel out of a tank. A small
residue can make for big excitement... Welding up steel tanks is a much
larger problem then the type of work we are talking about doing on the wing
tanks. When I weld on a fuel tank, I toss a chunk of dry ice inside. The
CO2 makes a safe atmosphere and the ice goes away completely.
Dave,
RV6, wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft |
http://www.xp-360.com/ :-)
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
John Jessen wrote:
>
>Ouch. Sure wish there was an alternative to the Lycoming's of the world.
>Such quality control issues for the prices we pay are just inexcusable.
>
>John Jessen
> ~328 (Tailcone)
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel cap water protection? |
>
> Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the
> same effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Kevin, I feel they had the same effect. I don't have a lot of experience
yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a plaguing
problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps. The difference in the force
needed to lock down the cap is perhaps 20% of what it had been, all else
equal, after lubing them. I simply peel out the big o-ring, clean out
whatever might be in there, and spray a small film of whatever lube in
there, and replace the o-ring. Each time the cap is actuated when wetted
with fuel, I'm sure some of the lube dissolves, so time will tell how
frequently to re-apply. I also put some under the clamping mechanism and
around that o-ring also.
There is a fundamental angle of repose problem with the fuel cap design. In
other terms, the angle of the cones is low enough that the large o-ring
refuses to slide radially outward as the two cones are brought together,
unless on puts some sort of lube behind it. There will be a bit of lube
streaking down the top of the wing, as some of the lube will be "outside"
the fuel seal. I found that I needed to tighten the adjusting nut after
using lube.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 719 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: High HP O-360 engine |
Ron and all listers,
Five years ago when I built my RV8, I wanted as much power as possible, and
I had met several other RVers with pumped up Lycoming engines, I decided to
pump up my choice which was a standard IO360AlB6. I found a suitable core
and sent it to Monty Barrette for overhaul. Monty advised me that I would
definitely have more power with a 10-1 compression engine, however he
advised me that I should not expect a normal TBO of 2000 hours. He advised
that a TBO of 1000 hours would be more likely, and possible less depending
on how I would run the engine. Since I wanted to go fast and I considered
myself to be maintenance oriented, I convinced myself that my engine would
last longer because I would be extra careful!!! (change oil regularly etc.)
To make a long story short, my engine lasted 946.2 hours. I had noticed a
light nocking noise in the last hours of operation, but dismissed that
because I had been told by know it alls that some mechanical noise was to be
expected. (This was my first Lycoming engine, I had over 3000 hours in
radial engines) . When I changed the oil and the filter, I found that the
oil screen was plugged tight with what looked like fish scales and the
filter was full of bearing material and steel slivers. This all occurred
just after flying home from Florida via Phoenix to Green Bay with 2 plus
hours over florida swamps in real IMC and another 4 hours over mountains. I
immediately pulled a cylinder and discovered that all of the bearings were
toast. Needless to say, I am now a more religious person. with a very
healthy regard for the advice that was given to me by Monty Barrette ie -
do not expect a high TBO with a pumped up engine - more power - Yes, long
TBO - NO..
I replaced this engine with a new IO390. I am very happy with this engine,
it has more noticable power than the IO360, averages l/2 gal per hr more
fuel consumption at normal cruise 23x2300 and yields an average 5mph
increase speed atabove power setting. The engine is approximately 10 lbs
heavier, however I am now using a AeroComposites 74" prop that is about
15lb lighter than my Hartzell, so no cg. problem was noticed .
I hope that this information will help you with your engine choice. Please
do not ask for email replys. It you want to discuss this call me @ 920 619
6968.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron Lee" <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 9:53 AM
Subject: RV-List: High HP O-360 engine
>
> Reading about the Super 7 I have some questions to ask about
> getting a higher than 180 HP engine out of an O-360. (not IO
> or angle valve)
>
> You can put higher compression pistons in for some increase
> above that provide by 8.5:1. Obviously there are pros and cons.
> Other than not being able to use autogas how would one determine
> how high to go (9.2, 9.5, 10:1)?
>
> Supposedly there is a high torque Camshaft. More torque must be good.
>
> Porting and polishing of something is mentioned.
>
> Angle cut of the valves may offer something.
>
> Where is the highest/most cost-effective pay-off in getting more
> horsepower
> from an O-360?
>
> Ron Lee
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "jacklockamy" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net> |
| Subject: | 120-volt welder for home/hangar use... |
Can anyone recommend at good 120-volt welder (flux cored arc welding (FCAW) - gasless)
for a hobbyist or for small projects at the hangar?
I took a college course in welding years ago and tried to make "puddles" with a
stick welder and needless to say... it was a challenge. I would like to buy
a small welder for the hangar to weld 1/8" steel tube or chromoly(sp?) easily
should I choose start another project (tube/fabric) in the future. I've been
told welding with 'wire feed' is much easier than stick.
Any recommendations for a good, reasonably priced 120-volt welder would be most
appreciated?
Thanks,
Jack Lockamy
Camarillo, CA
RV-7A 150 hrs
www.jacklockamy.com
jacklockamy(at)verizon.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft |
> Ouch. Sure wish there was an alternative to the Lycoming's of the world.
> Such quality control issues for the prices we pay are just inexcusable.
>
> John Jessen
> ~328 (Tailcone)
>
> Careful what you say there John, or we will end up with another engine
debate...
now, if only I hadn't just landed on a freeway..... :-)
Dave Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: annodized instrument panel? |
In a message dated 2/27/2006 7:45:49 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
erichweaver(at)cox.net writes:
I was considering anodizing my instrument panel to a color of my choice
rather than painting or powder coating. Any drawbacks to this, aesthetic or
otherwise?
==============================================
I would encourage you to powder coat unless you are going with clear
anodize. I think that Class 2 (colored) anodizing would look cheap and fade
unpredictably after only a short time in the sun.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 776hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mickey Coggins <mick-matronics(at)rv8.ch> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap water protection? |
> ... I don't have a lot of experience
> yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a plaguing
> problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps. ...
Another option is to use the "Retrofit lockable fuel caps".
http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040822215643234
I have not subjected them to any harsh winters, but the
design seems to be such that they will open and close
easily under all conditions.
--
Mickey Coggins
http://www.rv8.ch/
#82007 finishing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap water protection? |
On 27 Feb 2006, at 20:23, Alex Peterson wrote:
>
>
>
>>
>
>> Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the
>> same effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?
>>
>> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>> Ottawa, Canada
>> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
> Kevin, I feel they had the same effect. I don't have a lot of
> experience
> yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a
> plaguing
> problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps. The difference in
> the force
> needed to lock down the cap is perhaps 20% of what it had been, all
> else
> equal, after lubing them. I simply peel out the big o-ring, clean out
> whatever might be in there, and spray a small film of whatever lube in
> there, and replace the o-ring. Each time the cap is actuated when
> wetted
> with fuel, I'm sure some of the lube dissolves, so time will tell how
> frequently to re-apply. I also put some under the clamping
> mechanism and
> around that o-ring also.
>
> There is a fundamental angle of repose problem with the fuel cap
> design. In
> other terms, the angle of the cones is low enough that the large o-
> ring
> refuses to slide radially outward as the two cones are brought
> together,
> unless on puts some sort of lube behind it. There will be a bit of
> lube
> streaking down the top of the wing, as some of the lube will be
> "outside"
> the fuel seal. I found that I needed to tighten the adjusting nut
> after
> using lube.
Are you now using just a spray on lubricant, or are you using EZ Turn
+ a spray on lubricant?
We have some wonderfully clear winter flying days up here, but it can
be very cold.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft |
On 27 Feb 2006, at 23:58, David Leonard wrote:
> now, if only I hadn't just landed on a freeway..... :-)
>
> Dave Leonard
> Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
Landed on a freeway? Wow. Tell us more. What failed, and where
were you when it failed? And tell us all about the landing and the
aftermath. What worked well, and what would you do different next
time? Are you OK? Is the aircraft OK?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | 120-volt welder for home/hangar use... |
I bought a factory refurbished Lincoln SP100T from Indiana Oxygen Co. on
E-Bay for $349.99 a year or so ago. It is 120v and will do gasless or w/gas
and came with the regulator and hose. This thing works great! My cousin is a
muffler man and he used it making me an exhaust system for my 6A and he said
it was as good as he has ever used. BTW the homemade exhaust is working fine
as well.
Scott
N162RV
180hrs
>Can anyone recommend at good 120-volt welder (flux cored arc welding (FCAW)
>- gasless) for a hobbyist or for small projects at the hangar?
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft |
I just sent my engine back to British Columbia for remediation of the last SB.
Thanks goodness this SB says that the last one completes the requirements for
this one........
-----Original Message-----
>From: Dan Checkoway <dan(at)rvproject.com>
>Sent: Feb 27, 2006 6:16 PM
>To: SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com, rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Cc: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)"
>Subject: RV-List: Lycoming wants me to retire my crankshaft
>
>
>Lycoming has asked me (and hundreds/thousands of others?) to retire my
>crankshaft at my convenience, or February 21, 2009, whichever comes first.
>
>Check the Mandatory Service Bulletin from Lycoming to see if it applies to
>you, but it looks like just counterweighted 360s and 390s that will be
>affected RV-wise, and maybe a handful of 540s on Rockets and Supers. My
>crankshaft serial # is right there in the list. Here's the SB:
>
>http://tinyurl.com/lh54h
>
>)_( Dan
>RV-7 N714D (828 hours)
>http://www.rvproject.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Fuel cap water protection? |
> Are you now using just a spray on lubricant, or are you using
> EZ Turn
> + a spray on lubricant?
>
> We have some wonderfully clear winter flying days up here,
> but it can be very cold.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Kevin, no EZ Turn. It really, really gets stiff when OAT's get cold. Put
some on something and put it in the freezer.
Mickey, I may consider one of the retrofits at some point, but I'd have to
look at the details of the design to see the sealing mechanism first.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 719 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCFuelCells.com> |
Cc: "'alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net'"
| Subject: | RE: Fuel cap water protection? |
It seems to me that there is another issue a work here: the elasticity
of the
"O" rings at low temps. I seem to remember listings (that should be in the
archives) that address this problem. If I remember correctly, Van utilizes
"O" rings that are not intended for low temperature operation.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net >
>
>
> Clarification please - did the spray white grease have the
> same effect as the Tri-Flow, or the EZ Turn?
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
Kevin, I feel they had the same effect. I don't have a lot of
experience
yet, as I just this winter(finally) figured out this solution to a
plaguing
problem of cold weather ops with the fuel caps. The difference in the
force
needed to lock down the cap is perhaps 20% of what it had been, all
else
equal, after lubing them. I simply peel out the big o-ring, clean out
whatever might be in there, and spray a small film of whatever lube in
there, and replace the o-ring. Each time the cap is actuated when
wetted
with fuel, I'm sure some of the lube dissolves, so time will tell how
frequently to re-apply. I also put some under the clamping mechanism
and
around that o-ring also.
There is a fundamental angle of repose problem with the fuel cap
design. In
other terms, the angle of the cones is low enough that the large
o-ring
refuses to slide radially outward as the two cones are brought
together,
unless on puts some sort of lube behind it. There will be a bit of
lube
streaking down the top of the wing, as some of the lube will be
"outside"
the fuel seal. I found that I needed to tighten the adjusting nut
after
using lube.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 719 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel cap water protection? (and cold temp ops) |
Alex,
Have you tried a fluorosilicone lube on your fuel caps? It is not washed out by
the solvent action of the avgas and the fluid in the grease has a very flat temperature
viscosity curve -service temp is minus 20F to +450F. I am using Dow
Corning 3452 valve lubricant. Aircraft Spruce pg. 164 in my cat. Not inexpensive
but lubricates the o-ring and the mechanical mechanism and repels the water
very well.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/lubricant.html
This product is also sold thru bearing and transmission supply stores so you may
be able to buy it locally.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
"RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel."
By RTV I assume you are talking about general purpose room temperature vulcanizing
silicone sealants.
Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum
bonded together with Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed in 100LL in a
glass jar for 6 years and there is no indication of degradation of the sealant.
This is my test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection covers. It will
be much easier to remove for the MSB than the Proseal.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | This dang mand SB. |
Here is the short email I sent to support at vans, why dont more of you send in
your thoughts? Charlie H
Hiya, Cant imagine lyc, or any cert plane builder putting out such a harsh and
unwaranted manditory bulitin, for heavens sake, 2 incidents out of several thousand
flying planes, and they had ample warning of the problem.Think this thing
thru and resind / reissue under conditions warranted by this tiny percentage
problem. Charles Heathco RV6a
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 120-volt welder for home/hangar use... |
You don't want to do any 4130 welds with a cheap flux core MIG welder. If
you're only going to weld small projects you are better off with a small
oxy/acetylene gas torch such as the Meco Midget. Personally I have a Meco
and a Miller TIG welder. 90% of the time I use the TIG because I flip the
switch, turn on the gas and I'm ready to go. With the TIG welder I also
have a stick electrode holder, and go that route if I need to weld something
dirty or something that isn't easy to maneuver around. If I have to weld a
large area or something vertical I take it over to my buddy's place and use
his Millermatic MIG. If you decide to go MIG then don't go with the flux
wire, use argon/CO2 mix gas, you will be much happier with the quality of
your welds.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On 2/27/06, jacklockamy wrote:
>
>
> Can anyone recommend at good 120-volt welder (flux cored arc welding
> (FCAW) - gasless) for a hobbyist or for small projects at the hangar?
>
> I took a college course in welding years ago and tried to make "puddles"
> with a stick welder and needless to say... it was a challenge. I would like
> to buy a small welder for the hangar to weld 1/8" steel tube or
> chromoly(sp?) easily should I choose start another project (tube/fabric) in
> the future. I've been told welding with 'wire feed' is much easier than
> stick.
>
> Any recommendations for a good, reasonably priced 120-volt welder would be
> most appreciated?
>
> Thanks,
> Jack Lockamy
> Camarillo, CA
> RV-7A 150 hrs
> www.jacklockamy.com
> jacklockamy(at)verizon.net
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: 120-volt welder for home/hangar use... |
When I worked as a weldor I used Lincoln and Miller welding machines. I usually
had more Millers than Lincolns, but both brands are good machines.
The Miller 120 V MIG welder is a Millermatic 135.
Lincoln has a SP-135T and a SP-135 Plus.
I continue to buy my welding supplies from Munn Supply (580) 234-4120 Enid, OK,
as he is a long time friend, completive with internet sites and is experienced
in supplying and supporting out of state weldors. I am sure there are dealers
in your area that can also take care of your needs.
Lincoln had a booth at the Reno Air Races with a sample of their machines, and
factory representatives were there to demonstrate their equipment. You may
want an excuse to go to air event, and want to support those who support aviation.
Although MIG welding requires less weldor technique as the Shielding gas rate,
Voltage and Amperage (wire speed) are set with a dial, bad welds can be produced
using any welding method.
Sherman Butler
Idaho Falls, ID
RV 7a Empennage
jacklockamy wrote:
Can anyone recommend at good 120-volt welder (flux cored arc welding (FCAW) - gasless)
for a hobbyist or for small projects at the hangar?
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Dale,
Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ? I bent my tank inspection
plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".
Chuck
Dale Ensing wrote:
"RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel."
By RTV I assume you are talking about general purpose room temperature vulcanizing
silicone sealants.
Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum
bonded together with Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed in 100LL in a
glass jar for 6 years and there is no indication of degradation of the sealant.
This is my test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection covers. It will be
much easier to remove for the MSB than the Proseal.
Dale Ensing
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
You are correct, I was referring to room temp. vulcanizing. Which specific
fluorosilicone sealant are you referring to from the list?
http://www.nusil.com/Engineering-Silicones/Aircraft/AircraftProducts.aspx?SCID=12
Thanks.
Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
>
> "RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in fuel."
>
> By RTV I assume you are talking about general purpose room temperature
> vulcanizing silicone sealants.
> Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone sealants. I have two pieces
> of aluminum bonded together with Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed in
> 100LL in a glass jar for 6 years and there is no indication of degradation
> of the sealant. This is my test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection
> covers. It will be much easier to remove for the MSB than the Proseal.
> Dale Ensing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Robert Sultzbach <endspeed(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | AET group buy on RV8/8A engine exhausts |
Hi guys,
I am currently in the process of putting together a
group buy for engine exhausts from AET. The buy at
this time is limited to the RV8/8A community. There
will be a good savings if we get enough people to join
the group buy but nothing is in concrete yet so I am
hesitant to post any numbers. If you are interested
please email me at endspeed at yahoo.com. I will
need your engine type/manufacturer/cowl and type of
exhaust you are interested in. For 8A folks, AET will
have a 4 into 1 exhaust within the next few months.
Thanks.
Bob Sultzbach
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
>
> I don't understand what you are saying re liability. VAC didn't
> build the airplane so how can they be liable for someone who
> forgets to tighten a flare nut? This whole thing is moronic.
> Every time something comes loose and some idiot crashes are we
> going to have to go through this process? As for locking device:
> that would be a flare nut wrench, the same type used on the rest of
> the fuel system...........duh!
I have a hard time figuring out what ever one is whining about. Van
has an obligation to inform of us potential problems. He has done
that. Now itt is up to each owner to decide whether he wants to
perform the SB, or not. There have been at least three events, so
there will likely be more. Some guys don't want to do the SB because
they are sure their flare nuts are tight, and they will never come
loose. The guys who had the three events thought their flare nuts
were tight too.
In aviation we need to learn from others' mistakes. We won't live
long if we have to make all the mistakes ourselves. If we just put
our head in the sand and say "It can't happen to me, because I'm a
better builder (or a better pilot) than that idiot.", then we are
setting ourselves up to have the same problem.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
Kevin Horton wrote:
>
>> I don't understand what you are saying re liability. VAC didn't
>> build the airplane so how can they be liable for someone who
>> forgets to tighten a flare nut? This whole thing is moronic.
>> Every time something comes loose and some idiot crashes are we
>> going to have to go through this process? As for locking device:
>> that would be a flare nut wrench, the same type used on the rest of
>> the fuel system...........duh!
>
> I have a hard time figuring out what ever one is whining about. Van
> has an obligation to inform of us potential problems. He has done
> that. Now itt is up to each owner to decide whether he wants to
> perform the SB, or not. There have been at least three events, so
> there will likely be more. Some guys don't want to do the SB because
> they are sure their flare nuts are tight, and they will never come
> loose. The guys who had the three events thought their flare nuts
> were tight too.
>
> In aviation we need to learn from others' mistakes. We won't live
> long if we have to make all the mistakes ourselves. If we just put
> our head in the sand and say "It can't happen to me, because I'm a
> better builder (or a better pilot) than that idiot.", then we are
> setting ourselves up to have the same problem.
Kevin raises some excellent and valid points (as usual).
As part of the hysteria this SB has generated, some statements have been
made about the ominous ramifications of this SB on potential insurance
claims. However, these statements seem to be made by individuals who
THINK there will be insurance problems if the SB isn't complied with. In
spite of calls from some listers for input from the insurance industry,
there is an interesting amount of silence from the carriers concerning
this matter. And I suspect this silence will continue since enforcing
experimental SB's opens an almost unfathomable can of worms.
The fuel pickup SB is not the first service bulletin to be issued by
Vans. Matter of fact, this is the sixteenth SB to be issued on RV's! I
don't recall hearing the wailing and gnashing of teeth about insurance
problems when the other SB's were issued, and I haven't heard anything
about insurance payout difficulties concerning previous SB's.
Maybe it would be good to take a deep breath, allow the blood pressure
to descend, and hold off on the dubious statements about the veracity of
Mr. Van and his service bulletin. I suspect there is sufficient
ambiguity in the FAA's interpretation of SB applicability to
experimental aircraft to make it very, very difficult for insurance
carriers to link claim payments to SB's. As has been pointed out
previously, but somewhat drowned out in the noise, is the non-binding
nature of experimental (or certificated) service bulletins.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
I don't remember who or when this issue came up before, but it has. Way
back when I was building my -6, there was some discussion about this issue
somewhere, I just don't remember when. I do however remember it, because it
caused me to use a bit of proseal on my flare nuts when installing
them....and Lord knows with my laziness I wouln't have volutarily done any
extra work if there wasn't a reason for it...either someone suggested it
online, or told me about it - either way there was a reason I did that.
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kevin Horton
>Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 11:06 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG
>
>I have a hard time figuring out what ever one is whining about. Van
>has an obligation to inform of us potential problems. He has done
>that. Now itt is up to each owner to decide whether he wants to
>perform the SB, or not. There have been at least three events, so
>there will likely be more. Some guys don't want to do the SB because
>they are sure their flare nuts are tight, and they will never come
>loose. The guys who had the three events thought their flare nuts
>were tight too.
>
>In aviation we need to learn from others' mistakes. We won't live
>long if we have to make all the mistakes ourselves. If we just put
>our head in the sand and say "It can't happen to me, because I'm a
>better builder (or a better pilot) than that idiot.", then we are
>setting ourselves up to have the same problem.
>
>Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
>Ottawa, Canada
>http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
>> I don't understand what you are saying re liability. VAC didn't
>> build the airplane so how can they be liable for someone who
>> forgets to tighten a flare nut? This whole thing is moronic.
>> Every time something comes loose and some idiot crashes are we
>> going to have to go through this process? As for locking device:
>> that would be a flare nut wrench, the same type used on the rest of
>> the fuel system...........duh!
>
> I have a hard time figuring out what ever one is whining about. Van
> has an obligation to inform of us potential problems. He has done
> that. Now itt is up to each owner to decide whether he wants to
> perform the SB, or not. There have been at least three events, so
> there will likely be more. Some guys don't want to do the SB because
> they are sure their flare nuts are tight, and they will never come
> loose. The guys who had the three events thought their flare nuts
> were tight too.
>
> In aviation we need to learn from others' mistakes. We won't live
> long if we have to make all the mistakes ourselves. If we just put
> our head in the sand and say "It can't happen to me, because I'm a
> better builder (or a better pilot) than that idiot.", then we are
> setting ourselves up to have the same problem.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
I agree with Kevin's point of view completely, I've had a hard time figuring
out what all the backlash is about too. A couple of further thoughts... as
the manufacturer of the aircraft you don't have to ground your bird
instantly, just put it on your list to get to at some reasonable point in
the future, perhaps when you take it out of service for some other
maintenance. In the mean time be aware of the potential problem and look for
any signs of it.
There are two legal reasons why you want to comply at some point...
insurance and sale of the aircraft. If you file an insurance claim for an
accident that was clearly due to some other factor I'm sure the insurance
company will pay. Of course if it's a fuel exhaustion accident of any kind
they would fight it. Secondly, if you ever sell your plane any new owner
will naturally want any/all SBs complied with.
Lastly, for the newer RV-7/8/9 style wings, you might consider taking the
wings off to give yourself easy access. Although it might seem like a lot of
work it really doesn't take that long, at least on an -8 -- been there, done
that.
FWIW,
Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Just another point of reference on this issue: There are minority of folks
out there who did not go the Van's route on this. Personally, I didn't like
the idea of the pick-up tubes...so I riveted a 1/4" thick piece of aluminum
as a doubler on to the inboard fuel tank rib, in the rear near the tank
drain and located inside the tank. Again, this doubler was riveted to the
lower inboard corner of the fuel tank and was maybe 2" X 3" X 1/4", just
enough to enable drilling a hole and tapping for the fitting that contains
the finger screen pick-up (Aircraft Spruce sells it). I consider this to be
the lowest point in the tank and the finger screen extends just over the
tank drain. From this fitting, I ran my fuel line through the fuse directly
to the fuel selector valve. I added rubber grommets at the fuse, and some
minor bends in the line for bending moments. None of this is rocket science
and for the life of me I can't figure out why Vans went with the tubes. I
think there was actually an article in the RVator about doing it this way,
not sure though. Another advantage is that at condition-inspection time, you
can simply pull the finger screens and take a look, but I have never found
anything yet.
It has worked for me so I thought I would pass it on for those who haven't
gotten that far yet.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7
====================================================================
I have a hard time figuring out what ever one is whining about. Van
has an obligation to inform of us potential problems. He has done
that. Now itt is up to each owner to decide whether he wants to
perform the SB, or not. There have been at least three events, so
there will likely be more. Some guys don't want to do the SB because
they are sure their flare nuts are tight, and they will never come
loose. The guys who had the three events thought their flare nuts
were tight too.
In aviation we need to learn from others' mistakes. We won't live
long if we have to make all the mistakes ourselves. If we just put
our head in the sand and say "It can't happen to me, because I'm a
better builder (or a better pilot) than that idiot.", then we are
setting ourselves up to have the same problem.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Pat Hatch" <pat_hatch(at)msn.com> |
Reference my previous post on fuel pick-up finger screens, I found the
article in the RVator (10/93) also it is in "18 Years of the RV-ator," page
57. First published in the Pugent Sound RVator, Vans reprinted it for "your
consideration." Having done it both ways, I like this system better, but
your mileage may vary.
Pat Hatch
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
Could you post or locate a sketch? For my next RV ...
Steve Soule
Vermont N227RV
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Pat Hatch
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:15 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Fuel Tank SB.
Just another point of reference on this issue: There are minority of folks
out there who did not go the Van's route on this. Personally, I didn't like
the idea of the pick-up tubes...so I riveted a 1/4" thick piece of aluminum
as a doubler on to the inboard fuel tank rib, in the rear near the tank
drain and located inside the tank. Again, this doubler was riveted to the
lower inboard corner of the fuel tank and was maybe 2" X 3" X 1/4", just
enough to enable drilling a hole and tapping for the fitting that contains
the finger screen pick-up (Aircraft Spruce sells it). I consider this to be
the lowest point in the tank and the finger screen extends just over the
tank drain. From this fitting, I ran my fuel line through the fuse directly
to the fuel selector valve. I added rubber grommets at the fuse, and some
minor bends in the line for bending moments. None of this is rocket science
and for the life of me I can't figure out why Vans went with the tubes. I
think there was actually an article in the RVator about doing it this way,
not sure though. Another advantage is that at condition-inspection time, you
can simply pull the finger screens and take a look, but I have never found
anything yet.
It has worked for me so I thought I would pass it on for those who haven't
gotten that far yet.
Pat Hatch
RV-4
RV-6
RV-7
====================================================================
I have a hard time figuring out what ever one is whining about. Van
has an obligation to inform of us potential problems. He has done
that. Now itt is up to each owner to decide whether he wants to
perform the SB, or not. There have been at least three events, so
there will likely be more. Some guys don't want to do the SB because
they are sure their flare nuts are tight, and they will never come
loose. The guys who had the three events thought their flare nuts
were tight too.
In aviation we need to learn from others' mistakes. We won't live
long if we have to make all the mistakes ourselves. If we just put
our head in the sand and say "It can't happen to me, because I'm a
better builder (or a better pilot) than that idiot.", then we are
setting ourselves up to have the same problem.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. |
Pat Hatch wrote:
>
> Just another point of reference on this issue: There are minority of folks
> out there who did not go the Van's route on this. Personally, I didn't like
> the idea of the pick-up tubes...so I riveted a 1/4" thick piece of aluminum
> as a doubler on to the inboard fuel tank rib, in the rear near the tank
> drain and located inside the tank. Again, this doubler was riveted to the
> lower inboard corner of the fuel tank and was maybe 2" X 3" X 1/4", just
> enough to enable drilling a hole and tapping for the fitting that contains
> the finger screen pick-up (Aircraft Spruce sells it).
And this is precisely why the insurance companies can't penalize
"non-compliers" of a service bulletin! We are dealing with experimental
aircraft, built by individuals in thousands of diverse shops, not on a
manufacturer's assembly line.
If somebody wants to take the position than an insurance company won't
pay a claim on an accident involving a fuel pickup that doesn't comply
with a service bulletin, then our friend Pat is in big trouble since he
isn't even using the Vans pickup! And not only Pat, but anyone else who
has rudder pedals that don't comply with Vans SB, or a flap motor that
wasn't returned to the factory per the SB, or an RV-4 that doesn't have
a reinforced seat per the SB.
So what defines a "complying RV"? There is no such thing since every RV
is a unique aircraft constructed by a unique manufacturer, otherwise
known affectionately as an "experimental aircraft". :-)
If a builder/owner wishes to comply with Vans's various SB's, fine. But
the condemnation a perfectly good aircraft to insurance purgatory
because of failure to comply to a SB is a move that is yet to be
demonstrated in actual practice by the insurance industry.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
| Subject: | GNS-530 vrs MX-20 |
Hello All,
I posted this to the Avionics-List and thought this
group might be a good help. I have been planning on
installing a Garmin GNS-530 for quite some time, and
before I make the final commitment I want to address one
final option; installing instead an MX-20 with all the
appropriate additions to render the same functions as
the 530. To make this an apples-to-apples (sort of)
comparison, I am making the assumption that I would
install a nav/com and GPS with the MX-20.
I am building a tandem 2-place (Harmon Rocket) with the
primary mission statement of fun cross-country work. I
want to minimize pilot workload and maximize safety and
fun. I desire to have weather and may install traffic
at a later time. Given the limited panel space of the
Rocket; I only want one "screen"; either the 530 or
MX-20. I am also partial to round gages and am not
interested in large displays for everything (I know this
is a debatable subject and this is my preference).
The reason for this query is that I have heard the 530
has barely enough computing power to handle weather and
that the MX-20 does this much better and with a better
display. The MX-20 is also a better platform to make
changes to later on.
So my questions are:
1) any suggestions on the best equipment to integrate
with the MX-20 to allow its function to match that of
the 530 ??
2) any input on which of these options offers the best
performance ??
3) any input on which of these options offers the most
flexibility ??
4) any input on which of these options offers the
easiest use ??
Thanks a ton in advance !!!!
--
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Jihostroj Governor Control Arm |
I have a Whirlwind prop and a Jihostroj Governor on my RV-6A. The prop
control cable came from Van's and provides a one and three quarter inch
movement from full fine to full increase. However, the cable will only
move the governor control arm through about 2/3s of its arc. There is
only one hole on the control arm to attach the cable, so no adjustment
is available. Whirlwind didn't seem to know of any problems.
Do any of you RVers with a Whirlwind prop and a Jihostroj governor have
a similar problem? It has been suggested that a full increase prop is
never used, so there is no prolem. Any comments or fix suggestions?
Charlie Brame
RV-6A N11CB
San Antonio
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank service bulletin |
Peter,
Kudos! Best and most thoughtful response yet.
Jerry Cochran
From: "Peter Blake" <pblake(at)epix.net>
Subject: RV-List: Fuel tank service bulletin
Here's the letter and e-mail I sent to Van.
February 27, 2006
Dear Van,
I was very surprised and disappointed on seeing your Mandatory Service
Bulletin requiring fuel tank changes. In my case, I have capacitive probes
for fuel quantity measurement, and no inspection plate to remove. Even if I
did have plates, theres less than a 2 gap between the wing skins and
fuselage of my RV6. I wont whine about tearing up very expensive paint, or
removing the wings to get at the tank, or even that this may cause an
insurance problem if I fail to do it. Instead, I question your logic and
your process of issuing this bulletin.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
| From: | Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed electronic
ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation. Lightspeed
calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need something
small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For those that
have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
Doug,
I have the dual lightspeed set up with two batteries from B&C electronics.
It works good. However, I believe that Bill Bainbridge of B&C now has a set
up for one battery with a neat miniature standby alternator to fit on the
vacuum drive. He also has a wiring diagram to facilitate this set up.
This allows a weight savings and also eliminates periodic battery
replacement.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:03 PM
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
>
> Fellow Listers:
>
> I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed electronic
> ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation. Lightspeed
> calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need something
> small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For those
> that
> have done this, what backup battery did you use?
>
> Thanks
>
> Doug Weiler
> N722DW, 275 hrs
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Robert Cutter" <rcutter(at)cupower.com> |
| Subject: | Re: GNS-530 vrs MX-20 |
Larry,
I fly a 530/430 combo daily in a C425 and love it. We have TAWS TCAS and WX
Weather included and it never lets me down. I have never used the MX, but
can certainly speak very highly about the Garmins. Going into high traffic
areas and changes to routing in the norm and the 530 makes it all very easy.
Robert
RVRC
RV4 upside down canoe
N516RC reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: GNS-530 vrs MX-20
>
>
> Hello All,
> I posted this to the Avionics-List and thought this
> group might be a good help. I have been planning on
> installing a Garmin GNS-530 for quite some time, and
> before I make the final commitment I want to address one
> final option; installing instead an MX-20 with all the
> appropriate additions to render the same functions as
> the 530. To make this an apples-to-apples (sort of)
> comparison, I am making the assumption that I would
> install a nav/com and GPS with the MX-20.
>
> I am building a tandem 2-place (Harmon Rocket) with the
> primary mission statement of fun cross-country work. I
> want to minimize pilot workload and maximize safety and
> fun. I desire to have weather and may install traffic
> at a later time. Given the limited panel space of the
> Rocket; I only want one "screen"; either the 530 or
> MX-20. I am also partial to round gages and am not
> interested in large displays for everything (I know this
> is a debatable subject and this is my preference).
>
> The reason for this query is that I have heard the 530
> has barely enough computing power to handle weather and
> that the MX-20 does this much better and with a better
> display. The MX-20 is also a better platform to make
> changes to later on.
> So my questions are:
> 1) any suggestions on the best equipment to integrate
> with the MX-20 to allow its function to match that of
> the 530 ??
> 2) any input on which of these options offers the best
> performance ??
> 3) any input on which of these options offers the most
> flexibility ??
> 4) any input on which of these options offers the
> easiest use ??
>
> Thanks a ton in advance !!!!
> --
> Larry E. James
> Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Curt Reimer" <cgreimer(at)mts.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RE: Fuel cap water protection? |
> It seems to me that there is another issue a work here: the elasticity
> of the
> "O" rings at low temps. I seem to remember listings (that should be in the
> archives) that address this problem. If I remember correctly, Van
> utilizes
> "O" rings that are not intended for low temperature operation.
In cold weather I find it really helps to let the o-rings sit for a minute
or two after loosening before you try to remove the the caps. Flip the tabs
up, push down on the mechanism until you feed the bottom cone pop loose, and
then just let them sit so the o-ring can gradually relax.
I completely trashed one of my original caps trying impatiently to get it
off at a -22C fuel stop in Fargo, ND. Both caps were both well gummed up
with Fuel Lube, and that certainly is NOT the way to go for cold weather. I
installed my replacement caps from Van's as they came out of the box with no
additional lube, and they've been working pretty well but they still take a
little prying to get them out below -15C or so.
I think there might be a temperature below which they just aren't coming out
at all, lube or no lube. I'd be concerned about stopping for fuel where
it's -25C or colder. Not that I fly much in those temps, but it's not
unusual for these parts.
Curt
RV-6 375 hrs
Winnipeg
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Great test, Dale...I look forward to your continued
findings...but, if it were me, I'd bet you won't find
anyting different in another 6 years. Proseal??
Paul Besing
--- Dale Ensing wrote:
>
>
> "RTV will literally melt/dissolve/become mushy in
> fuel."
>
> By RTV I assume you are talking about general
> purpose room temperature vulcanizing silicone
> sealants.
> Your statement is not true of fluorosilicone
> sealants. I have two pieces of aluminum bonded
> together with Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant immersed
> in 100LL in a glass jar for 6 years and there is no
> indication of degradation of the sealant. This is my
> test piece as I used it to seal wing inspection
> covers. It will be much easier to remove for the MSB
> than the Proseal.
> Dale Ensing
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stein Bruch" <stein(at)steinair.com> |
| Subject: | GNS-530 vrs MX-20 |
My 2 cents...a GNS480 and MX20 are a super pair..otherwise a GNS-430 is ok,
but the 480 has a lot more "schtuff" in it than the 430 (like being WAAS).
I can attest, the traffic is really nice to have in busy airspaces!
Cheers,
Stein.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Robert Cutter
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: GNS-530 vrs MX-20
Larry,
I fly a 530/430 combo daily in a C425 and love it. We have TAWS TCAS and WX
Weather included and it never lets me down. I have never used the MX, but
can certainly speak very highly about the Garmins. Going into high traffic
areas and changes to routing in the norm and the 530 makes it all very easy.
Robert
RVRC
RV4 upside down canoe
N516RC reserved
----- Original Message -----
From: "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 3:14 PM
Subject: RV-List: GNS-530 vrs MX-20
>
>
> Hello All,
> I posted this to the Avionics-List and thought this
> group might be a good help. I have been planning on
> installing a Garmin GNS-530 for quite some time, and
> before I make the final commitment I want to address one
> final option; installing instead an MX-20 with all the
> appropriate additions to render the same functions as
> the 530. To make this an apples-to-apples (sort of)
> comparison, I am making the assumption that I would
> install a nav/com and GPS with the MX-20.
>
> I am building a tandem 2-place (Harmon Rocket) with the
> primary mission statement of fun cross-country work. I
> want to minimize pilot workload and maximize safety and
> fun. I desire to have weather and may install traffic
> at a later time. Given the limited panel space of the
> Rocket; I only want one "screen"; either the 530 or
> MX-20. I am also partial to round gages and am not
> interested in large displays for everything (I know this
> is a debatable subject and this is my preference).
>
> The reason for this query is that I have heard the 530
> has barely enough computing power to handle weather and
> that the MX-20 does this much better and with a better
> display. The MX-20 is also a better platform to make
> changes to later on.
> So my questions are:
> 1) any suggestions on the best equipment to integrate
> with the MX-20 to allow its function to match that of
> the 530 ??
> 2) any input on which of these options offers the best
> performance ??
> 3) any input on which of these options offers the most
> flexibility ??
> 4) any input on which of these options offers the
> easiest use ??
>
> Thanks a ton in advance !!!!
> --
> Larry E. James
> Bellevue, WA Harmon Rocket II
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mauri Morin" <maurv8(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
Doug
This is the one I'll be using:
http://www.batteryweb.com/powersonicdetail.cfm?Model=3DPS-1252&tbl=3DPowerSonicSLA12v
Mauri Morin
Polson, MT
RV-8 N808M (reserved)
C180 N2125Z Flying
SEMPER FI
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Quick rv7 rudder question |
| From: | David Karlsberg <claypride(at)hotmail.com> |
So I looked for what seemed to be like forever and cannot figure out what
type of rivet is used to connect R-912 (the counter balance rib) to R-902
(spar) anybody have the drawings handy?
Thanks,
David Karlsberg
Rudder -7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <dan(at)rdan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick rv7 rudder question |
David,
I'm on an -8 just starting the Rudder it used different spar and rib part numbers
but if it's the top tip rib, on the 8 it uses AN470AD4-4
not sure if it the same on a 7
Dan
-8 Rudder
David Karlsberg wrote:
So I looked for what seemed to be like forever and cannot figure out what
type of rivet is used to connect R-912 (the counter balance rib) to R-902
(spar) anybody have the drawings handy?
Thanks,
David Karlsberg
Rudder -7
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
On another occasion where I had to remove Proseal from Aluminium I found a serated
steak knife to
work the best. I was able to hack into the Proseal without any damage to the Al
or to the soft
alclad surface.
Doug Gray
LARRY ADAMSON wrote:
>
>
>
> I once heard that a plastic butter knife works well.
>
> What's the best method of removing tank end plates that are prosealed on?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ? I bent my tank inspection
plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".
Aircraft Spruce. Here is the page.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/dow730.php
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Here is the same stuff from McMaster: http://www.mcmaster.com/
for a bit less money.
Size Color Each
730 3.0-oz. Tube White 74925A65 $71.60
730 Solvent Resistant- Contains fluorosilicone rubber, which resists
swelling when exposed to fuel, oil, and most solvents. Nonrunning paste for
repairing fuel lines and tanks, bonding components exposed to solvents, and
making formed-in-place gaskets. May corrode certain metals (including
copper, brass, zinc, and carbon steel). Begins to harden in 25 minutes.
Temperature range is -85 to +400 F.
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 01, 2006 7:29 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy)
>
>
> Where do ya' order the Dow Corning 730 RTV sealant ? I bent my tank
> inspection
> plates tryin' to take 'em off after 3 years of being "Pro-sealed".
>
> Aircraft Spruce. Here is the page.
>
> http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/dow730.php
>
> Dale Ensing
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. |
Its also on pg 80 of the 24 yrs edition, alongwith othere tank info. Charlie H
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel tank SB (it's easy) |
>
>> I bought mine from Vans. When mixed properly, and shown respect for its
>> age
>> and the temperature environment it was stored in I had excellent results.
>
> Hi Larry,
>
> Was your "proseal" in the caulk tube or in the can?
Mine was in the can and had the black activator in a separate container.
LRH
>
> Mine was in the tube. I've got a picture of the label
> here:
>
> http://www.rv8.ch/article.php?story 040726220023545
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vern W." <highflight1(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
I understand maybe a little frustration because of having to dig back into
the wings to do this SB, but I don't understand what could be called the
"furor" about it.
It looks to me that people are a lot more upset about the fuel tank SB than
they are about the Lycoming "issue" that will require an average of about
$6000 to $8000 to comply once the parts are bought and the labor is paid
for.
I wonder if it's because RV builders are so spoiled nowadays with
pre-punched kits, QB kits, and so much prefab that's done for us that we
forget what Experimental kits were like just a dozen years ago.
I think we should all just do it, be thankful that Van's is on top of safety
issues (whether real or imagined), and look forward to some more SB's as
time goes on. This isn't the first, and it sure isn't going to be the last.
Go buy a used GA aircraft and have some REAL fun making sure that all AD's
have been complied with since the day it was built. Some GA aircraft would
make our RV's with its' SB's look like a walk in the park.
Vern W.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Quick rv7 rudder question |
I had that same question when I built my rudder not
that long ago. I could not find an answer. So, I
went back to basics. I knew that I needed 1.5 times
the diameter of the rivet protruding from the shop
side. I therefore took some different length AN470AD4
rivets and fit each one till I found one that looked
to be about 1.5 times as long as the diameter. If you
are getting specific, you need .140 sticking out.
Dave
--- David Karlsberg wrote:
>
>
> So I looked for what seemed to be like forever and
> cannot figure out what
> type of rivet is used to connect R-912 (the counter
> balance rib) to R-902
> (spar) anybody have the drawings handy?
>
> Thanks,
> David Karlsberg
> Rudder -7
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "BRUCE GRAY" <brucerv84us(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG |
Amen Brother!
You should look at some of those aircraft at the airport tided down for
months/years on end and then one day see a car pull up unchaulk that sucker
and spit, sputter, pop the engine to life and take-off. No way man!
The end result of all this conversations, posts, mild cursing and argument
to comply with the S/B is exactly what Van's intended to do with it, "IT HAS
US ALL PAYING ATTENTION".
The new word at the airport, "To comply, Or not to comply.
Have fun, Fly safe,
Bruce Gray
RV8 Fuse
>From: "Vern W." <highflight1(at)gmail.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Tank SB. Someone please talk to Richard VG
>Date: Wed, 1 Mar 2006 08:46:46 -0600
>
>
>I understand maybe a little frustration because of having to dig back into
>the wings to do this SB, but I don't understand what could be called the
>"furor" about it.
>
>It looks to me that people are a lot more upset about the fuel tank SB than
>they are about the Lycoming "issue" that will require an average of about
>$6000 to $8000 to comply once the parts are bought and the labor is paid
>for.
>
>I wonder if it's because RV builders are so spoiled nowadays with
>pre-punched kits, QB kits, and so much prefab that's done for us that we
>forget what Experimental kits were like just a dozen years ago.
>
>I think we should all just do it, be thankful that Van's is on top of
>safety
>issues (whether real or imagined), and look forward to some more SB's as
>time goes on. This isn't the first, and it sure isn't going to be the last.
>Go buy a used GA aircraft and have some REAL fun making sure that all AD's
>have been complied with since the day it was built. Some GA aircraft would
>make our RV's with its' SB's look like a walk in the park.
>
>Vern W.
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net> have never seeing so many sb |
| Subject: | Re: Confidence in Van's Designs, Previous subject: I have |
never seeing so many sb
>I HAVE TO TELL YOU THAT I HAVE NEVER SEEING SO MANY POSTINGS AS THE ONE
>FOR THE S.B. TANKS..
>WHO CARES... ALL THESE PEOPLE COMPLAINING , AND HOWLING .. DON'T DO IT.
>NO ONE IS FORCING ANY ONE TO DO IT..
>I DID MINE, THIS PAST WEEK END. I HAVE HAD TO REMOVE ONE TANK BEFORE
>DUE TO A FUEL LEAK... NO BIG DEAL..
WARNING: If you don't want to get pissed off, please delete NOW!!!
I will tell you what the big deal is! This is a mandatory SB and I for one
feel that I should complete it before my next flight. Despite the SB
instructions this task will take me at least 20-30 hours of work. At this
time I do not have the time available to do this until sometime in
April. Which means I will not be flying until it is done in April. That
might not be a big deal for you, but it is for me.
I have read the instructions and for my RV they are flat out WRONG!!! No
way I can follow Vans instructions. One point is that on the inverted tank
the access plate is on the rear tank bulkhead. So this tank must come off
the airplane. My inverted fuel tank was built in accordance with the Vans
plans and construction manual. Once again wrong instructions might not be
a big deal for you, but it is for me.
But what the real BIG DEAL is that some of us have lost confidence
in Van's construction designs. Before, I felt that if Van designed it that
way, that was the the best way to build it. But now I feel like I have to
question everything in my aircraft.
So what else have I built according to the plans that may now be
wrong? FYI wing tanks have been on RVs for around 30 years, this is not a
new untried design or technique.
This is a significant emotional event for me, in other words, this is a BIG
DEAL!
I realize that other airplanes have these SBs and ADs. So that makes it
all right?
As for Lycoming crankshafts, it does not affect my engine, but this really
upsets me also. If I bought my Lycoming from Wall Mart I would expect
these types of problems, but at the price I paid for my engine I expect a
little bit better quality control. But on the other hand, as bad as
Lycoming quality control is, we just keep on buying them. We are our own
worst enemy.
Bob
RV6 NightFighter
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Low Adhesion ProSeal |
Hi All,
For those of you looking for a means to seal the access panels to tanks
while maintaining the ability to remove them, look at PRC DeSoto's "low
adhesion" polysulfide (ProSeal) sealant:
http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/pr1428a.pdf
This is a modified polysulfide sealant designed specifically for access
doors and the like. The PRC-Desoto (PPG) is a wealth of valuable
information.
Dean
RV-4
Bolton, MA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
Doug:
No offense to anyone, but people are going crazy with electrical stuff
and they are being overly influenced by a few sources. Here is the deal:
ONE:
IF you talk to Klaus the owner / inventor or the Lightspeed he does NOT
recommend dual batteries. You already have a BIG huge main battery
capable of starting the airplane. He does show a simple dual battery set-
up, but it is not required.
TWO:
The LS ignition uses VERY VERY little current (amps) and works on 4V to
35V !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a large operating voltage range! No other ignition does
this.
THREE:
Forget dual alternators and all the crap. It's B&C (who sells these
standby alternators) and Bob N. of Aerolelectric List, whose whole world
revolves around the electrical system PUSHING this. Bob's ideas tend
to push people to make their electrical system overly complicated,
expensive and heavy. Unless you are flying a $30k panel, IFR with an
electrically dependant automotive engine (EFI) than forget it.
FOUR:
THERE HAS NEVER been a LYCOMING taken out of the SKY because
the main battery failed or was not available. People will tell you they have
scary scary stories they **heard** of. I know, they are urban legend and
exaggerated. Ask who ever tells you a story to give you detailed FACTS.
They can't. The Lightspeed runs on voltages from 4V to 35V. READ 4V to 35V.
(If you push for detail, the stories have more holes in it than it makes sense.)
5 TH:
YOU DON'T **NEED** TWO BATTRIES OR TWO ALTERNATOR. The LS
ignition can fly all day on the main battery, fill the tanks and fly another
day, just on the battery. You do not have Electronic Fuel Injection and
electric only fuel pumps like AUTO engines. ONE ALTERNATOR, ONE
BATTERY is more than acceptable.
LAST:
Just wire the LS ignitions DIRECT to the battery and you will be fine.
Don't fall pray to the OVER DONE OVER COMPLICATED OVER
COSTLY HEAVY electrical systems. YOU HAVE A SINGLE ENGINE
PLANE FOR GOSH SAKES. You have a better chance of the Prop
falling off the engine than the battery not being their to get you on the
ground. Write me off line and we can talk how to wire to best assure
your IGNITION gets power, when and if you decide to get the EI.
Also some may suggest the P/E-mag. They are nice but they are lower
peformance EI than the Lightspeed. Don't consider MIX and match of
Lightspeed with P-mag because you will not get the gain in performance
a second ignitnon would normaly give.
Cheers George, RV-4, RV-7, B757
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
A cautionary note here.
This "low adhesion" sealant appears to be the same that is used on Grumman AA series
planes to seal the access panels in the bottom of the tank (bottom skin).
They require it because the panels are .032 material in mid-span of the thin
skin, and are basically unsupported. The regular sealant makes removing the
panels a near impossible task without bending something. With the "low adhesion"
sealant, it is possible. (The warm, sharp putty knife trick.)
However, it is common knowledge about Grummans that these panels will leak, the
only question is when. Leaking and oozing bottom cover plates are extremely
common in the Grumman fleet. The only saving grace is that these panels are at
least out where they can worked on fairly easily.
I would not use it on an RV wing tank, knowing it will only be a matter of time
before it begins to leak. I just finished closing up my first tank, and I will
use regular Proseal for the cover.
Your mileage may vary.
Blue Skies.
Stan
N67Sl (reserved)
RV7-A (wings)
KCCB
N6085L
Grumman Traveler
KEMT
>> For those of you looking for a means to seal the access panels to tanks
>> while maintaining the ability to remove them, look at PRC DeSoto's "low
>> adhesion" polysulfide (ProSeal) sealant:
>>
>> http://www.ppg.com/prc-desoto/pdf/pr1428a.pdf
>>
>> This is a modified polysulfide sealant designed specifically for access
>> doors and the like. The PRC-Desoto (PPG) is a wealth of valuable
>> information.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Trotter <ptrotter(at)acm.org> |
| Subject: | Using ProSeal for Tank Access Panles |
The discussions regarding Van's fuel tank pickup SB has shown that many
people use ProSeal to seal their access panels to the tank. This is a good
method, however it has been pointed out that ProSeal is a pain to remove due
to its adhesion qualities. A better alternative may be to use sealant
designed specifically for this purpose. All the companies that make tank
sealant also make access panel sealant that provides the same sealing
characteristics but with lower adhesion so the access panels can be removed
when necessary.
The following table shows the part numbers for various types of sealants
from the major manufacurers:
Product Type
PPG (Pro-Seal)
Flamemaster (Chem Seal)
AC Tech
Tank Sealant
P/S 890, PR-1440
CS 3204
AC-236
Access Panel Sealant
PR-1321, PR 1428
CS 3330
AC-215
Firewall Sealant
P/S 812, P/S 700
CS 1900
Tank Sealant (Rapid Cure)
CS 3204R
AC-240
A good source for the Flamemaster products is Sealpak Company
(www.sealpakcoinc.com) at (316) 942-6211. They are easy to deal with and
have no minimum order and can supply any of the Flamemaster products in any
amount you need.
Paul Troter
RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
Doug,
Don't let anybody tell you what to do or not to do. Do some research and
make up your own mind.
If you think that 2 batteries are a good idea for 2 electronic
ignitions, that's what you should do. I agree with this idea myself. I
like the idea of having a second battery, not so much for capacity
reasons, but for redundancy. I intend to connect my dual lightspeeds to
separate batteries at the battery terminals in my RV-6 project so as to
eliminate as many single points of failure as possible. I plan to
connect both batteries to the alternator with separate contactors so
that both can be charged by and isolated from the system in case of
alternator failure.
4.5 ah should be plenty to keep one ignition alive until you run out of
gas if the battery is in good condition and you disconnect it from the
main buss soon after alternator failure. You should probably have a low
voltage light to tell you if that happens. You might want to replace the
battery yearly to be sure it has enough capacity to do the job if called
upon. If you are using a 25 ah battery as your main, you could
substitute 2- 16 ah PC-680 odyssey batteries for more net capacity and
not too much extra weight. I'm planning to run that setup and replace
one of the batteries every year so that neither is ever more than two
years old, but then I'm going to have an all electric panel to feed and
care for, so I need more ampere hours capacity than you might.
Check out: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Rev11/AppZ_R11E.pdf
and look at Z-28 and Z-30 for ideas. You could also subscribe to the
aeroelectric.list at Matronics for more ideas.
By the way, we're running one Lightspeed and one mag now on our 6a and
it works great. If the mag quits, well probably throw on another
Lightspeed and work up a second battery. The one we have is crank
triggered. If we get another it will be hall effect in the mag drive.
Again, no single point of failure to take out both ignitions.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I
need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4.
For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
"gmcjetpilot" and others ...
Although Klaus may not "recommend" dual batteries, there is a GOOD reason to
have a small dedicated battery in some cases.
My friend has a LightSpeed + a non-impulse mag. Using a PC680 and a starter
I do not remember, there were times wherein te ONLY way he could crank was
AFTER the release of the starter button.
He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we measured
much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.
We tried adding a capacity to store a just enough to get things started but
in the end a small battery was the answer.
And yes, we did talk to Klaus. He first figured we wired something wrong.
(We had not). The then stated the voltages at which the unit theoretically
works. In our case it would not CRANK at a voltage higher than specified.
With the battery it all works fine.
Now this is not LS or Klaus bashing. I have one in the RV I am building now.
The reason for the low voltage was my friend's starter dragged it down, but
hey, not all starters are whizz-bang, super-duper crank-em up.
FOr a lot of other reasons, my underconstruction plane has dual PC680's but
if I were building a simpler plane with the LS, I would add the little
battey, if for no other reason than peace of mind.
James.
On 3/1/06, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
>
ONE:
> IF you talk to Klaus the owner / inventor or the Lightspeed he does NOT
> recommend dual batteries. You already have a BIG huge main battery
> capable of starting the airplane. He does show a simple dual battery set-
> up, but it is not required.
>
> TWO:
> The LS ignition uses VERY VERY little current (amps) and works on 4V to
> 35V !!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is a large operating voltage range! No other
> ignition does this.
>
>
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
That should read 'plastic steak knife'
Doug Gray wrote:
>
> On another occasion where I had to remove Proseal from Aluminium I found a serated
steak knife to
> work the best. I was able to hack into the Proseal without any damage to the
Al or to the soft
> alclad surface.
> Doug Gray
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
Calm down everyone, no one is going to get hurt if there are no sudden moves! :-)
Look no one is saying DON'T put two batteries, but it may not be necessary. What
ever sparks your rocket.
As far as 4 volts during START! I call foul, no offense. I can believe 8 volts
but 4 volts? If you saw 4 volts than there was something odd going on with a
weak battery or starter (which I think you mentions was the culprit).
However I agree a dedicated Aux battery should keep the EI voltage higher during
start, since the Aux battery is not being drawn down for start.
The lesson learned here is have a healthy battery. The MAIN battery is the key
to your whole electrical system. Don't run it till it is ragged. Replace it
preventably.
Here is LS dual battery wiring:
http://www.lightspeedengineering.com/Manuals/PS_Diagram.htm
You could get by with a 2.3Ah or 3Ah battery to drive one in case of emergency.
Here is a 3Ah for less than 2.9 lbs:
http://www.batteryweb.com/productpics/BB/BP3-12.jpg
2.3 Ah at 2.1 lbs
http://www.batteryweb.com/productpics/BB/BP2.3-12.jpg
2.2 Ah at 1.9 lbs
http://www.batteryweb.com/productpics/powersonicpics/PS-1220.gif
I stand corrected. Looking at LS install manual, it recommends an AUX battery
with dual EI. I just don't see the main battery going away. I know Klaus does
not use a AUX battery on his VariEZ last I heard. Bottom line is do what makes
you happy and if a little AUX battery works than do it. As I show a 2 Ah would
drive one EI to get you on the ground. I think 4.5Ah is on the large side
for just an EI AUX battery.
Cheers George
From: "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
"gmcjetpilot" and others ...
Although Klaus may not "recommend" dual batteries, there is a GOOD
reason to have a small dedicated battery in some cases.
My friend has a LightSpeed + a non-impulse mag. Using a PC680 and a
starter I do not remember, there were times wherein te ONLY way he could crank
was AFTER the release of the starter button.
He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we
measured much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.
We tried adding a capacity to store a just enough to get things started
but in the end a small battery was the answer.
And yes, we did talk to Klaus. He first figured we wired something
wrong. (We had not). The then stated the voltages at which the unit
theoretically works. In our case it would not CRANK at a voltage higher than
specified. With the battery it all works fine.
Now this is not LS or Klaus bashing. I have one in the RV I am building
now.The reason for the low voltage was my friend's starter dragged it down,
but hey, not all starters are whizz-bang, super-duper crank-em up.
For a lot of other reasons, my underconstruction plane has dual PC680's
but if I were building a simpler plane with the LS, I would add the little
battey, if for no other reason than peace of mind.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mannan J. Thomason" <mannanj(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB |
Something that works really good on removing residual Pro-Seal from the
surfaces after they have been seperated, is scrap windshield plexiglass.
Cut it on a bandsaw into strips 5 or 6 in. long by 1 in or so wide. Then
sharpen one end on a grinder at about a 45 deg. angle. When it gets dull or
chipped; back to the grinder.
Mannan Thomason
RV-8 Almost finished
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Gray" <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Thursday, March 02, 2006 3:26 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing Proseal/Tank MSB
>
> That should read 'plastic steak knife'
>
> Doug Gray wrote:
>>
>> On another occasion where I had to remove Proseal from Aluminium I found
>> a serated steak knife to
>> work the best. I was able to hack into the Proseal without any damage to
>> the Al or to the soft
>> alclad surface.
>> Doug Gray
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "James Clark" <jclarkmail(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
We're all cool. :-)
Just for clarification ...
The voltage was ABOVE 4v. Somewhere between 6 and 8v .... I just don't
remember the exact number at present.
The reason I posted this is because my friend wentr around and around for a
while with Klaus on the matter. When we took reasl measurements and
addressed that, the problem was solved, despite what Klaus felt should have
been occurring for that particular case.
James
On 3/2/06, gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> Calm down everyone, no one is going to get hurt if there are no sudden
> moves! :-)
>
> Look no one is saying DON'T put two batteries, but it may not be
> necessary. What ever sparks your rocket.
>
> As far as 4 volts during START! I call foul, no offense. I can believe 8
> volts but 4 volts? If you saw 4 volts than there was something odd going on
> with a weak battery or starter (which I think you mentions was the culprit).
>
> However I agree a dedicated Aux battery should keep the EI voltage
> higher during start, since the Aux battery is not being drawn down for
> start.
--
This is an alternate email. Please continue to email me at
james(at)nextupventures.com .
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
>He and I MEASURED the voltage and at a voltage that we THINK we measured
>much ABOVE 4 volts, his engine would NOT crank.
I have an impulse mag and LS EI. During my condition inspection my
A&P measured voltages at several places in the starting circuit. My
"recollection" is that at the starter it was around 7 volts. There was also
a drop at the solenoid.
The solenoid to starter wire was #4 and was replaced with #2. The continuous
duty solenoid was replaced with a starter type solenoid. Although the
voltage at the starter is better now the prop can still "stall" on a
compression
stroke but after a short pause it starts fine. (wood prop, PC680 battery)
I did buy a PC 925 battery to replace the PC680 sometime this year and
will see how that improves the starting.
PS, the voltage at the battery was also dropping to the point where Klaus
says that kickback "may" be a problem...although I never have had that
happen.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "czechsix(at)juno.com" <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI |
Hi Doug,
My RV is setup for day/night VFR and I have dual Lightspeeds. I pondered the electrical
system options extensively. I originally planned to go with two alternators
and one battery. The thing I kept coming back to is that with one battery,
you have a single-point failure for the entire electrical system. Notwithstanding
the opinion of others to the contrary, it IS possible to have a battery
lead break off or come loose. I know people who've had their car quit because
of this. I don't know anyone who has had their Lycoming quit from this--yet--but
one of the guys on the Aeroelectric List a couple years back did have a battery
lead break (in his case it did not result in engine failure, but if he
had been using a single battery architecture with dual elec igntion, it would
have!). People can argue that it was improper installation or poor maintenance
and that's fine, but it has happened and I prefer to design out the possibility
in my airplane. Even with dual alternators, if the backup alternator is off
and you lose connection to the battery, the alternator is not self-exciting for
startup so it does you no good (or at least I wouldn't bank on it). So you
lose everything including the engine at that point. I was not personally comfortable
with this setup in my plane and decided to go with single alternator, dual
battery setup instead.
Another advantage to the dual battery setup is that you can avoid the perceived
weakness in the Lightspeed system with the Skytec starter that has resulted in
damaging kickback with more than one installation. I won't get into the causes
and fixes and who's-to-blame thing, but if you have a small backup battery
that is isolated from the rest of the elec system, you can use it to power one
ignition while cranking the engine from the main battery. This is exactly what
I do on my plane with great results so far...I turn on only the ignition powered
by the backup battery, leaving the main one off. Crank it and it starts great
(even in winter in Iowa, with no primer system). Then I switch on the main
ignition and I'm good to go with no chance of kickback from low voltages on
the Lightspeed...
I wired mine pretty much like Klaus shows with a Schottky diode in between to isolate
the backup battery from the rest of the elec system. I elected not to put
in a switch like Klaus shows to switch the ignition between main and backup...I
didn't see an advantage to it and didn't want to be flipping switches to
get my engine started again (would prefer it doesn't quit to begin with!). I simply
wired my second igntion directly to the +/- terminals of the backup battery.
The main ignition is likewise wired directly to the +/- terminals of the
main battery. The only other thing I have connected to the backup battery is a
voltmeter just so I can monitor it (note: in my case the path to the voltmeter
is switched on/off with the ignition....this is because the voltmeter draws
a small current, so if you wired it always-on it would drain the battery while
the airplane is powered down).
I used a PowerSonic 2.9 Ah battery (PS-1229). It's light and relatively cheap (I
think about $25-30...you can Google it and get lots of hits). I plan to change
the battery every two years to ensure that it's reasonably fresh. I know Klaus
says 4.5 Ah but I thought that was overkill (unless you plan to be flying
over some really rugged terrain/ocean with no alternates within an hour or two
of flight). The 2.9 Ah batt is theoretically good for almost 3 hours of run time
on one ignition (drawing ~ 1A at cruise RPM's). In the unlikely event that
I ever find myself operating the engine soley on the backup battery, I will try
to have it on the ground within an hour. Remember, if you're flying in that
condition it means you've lost everything else in your panel so you're probably
not going to be wanting to continue a long XC under those circumstances! If
I upgrade to IFR I'll put the backup battery in the Dynon and make sure I have
fresh batteries in my handheld comm and GPS.
One nice thing about the PS-1229 is that it can fit into the standard Vans battery
tray along with an Odyssey PC-680. I have the PC-680 at the back of the tray
against the firewall and a piece of angle in front of it (to keep it from sliding
forward). The PS-1229 is in the front of the tray. There is about 3/4"
of space between the two so any sort of melt down/overheat condition of one battery
won't take out the other one.
FWIW, I made up a quick checklist in my POH for main alternator failure. If the
main alternator quits and I plan to continue my flight for over an hour, I will
turn OFF my backup-powered ignition to save the battery just in case it's needed.
I will continue to planned destination running the main igntion and reduced
panel loads (e-bus) and only turn the backup ignition ON when approaching
to land. This way if the main battery craps out on me prior to arrival at my
destination I will be able to keep the engine running with the fully-charged backup
system.
Some may say my setup is overkill, others will think it's inadequate. But it's
my airplane and this setup is one that I'm very comfortable with.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 8.3 hours...
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
From: Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
Hi Doug,
My RV is setup for day/night VFR and I have dual Lightspeeds. I pondered the electrical
system options extensively. I originally planned to go with two alternators
and one battery. The thing I kept coming back to is that with one battery,
you have a single-point failure for the entire electrical system. Notwithstanding
the opinion of others to the contrary, it IS possible to have a battery
lead break off or come loose. I know people who've had their car quit because
of this. I don't know anyone who has had their Lycoming quit from this--yet--but
one of the guys on the Aeroelectric List a couple years back did have a battery
lead break (in his case it did not result in engine failure, but if he
had been using a single battery architecture with dual elec igntion, it would
have!). People can argue that it was improper installation or poor maintenance
and that's fine, but it has happened and I prefer to design out the possibility
in my airplane. Even with dual alternators, if the backup alternator is off
and you lose connection to the battery, the alternator is not self-exciting for
startup so it does you no good (or at least I wouldn't bank on it). So you
lose everything including the engine at that point. I was not personally comfortable
with this setup in my plane and decided to go with single alternator, dual
battery setup instead.
Another advantage to the dual battery setup is that you can avoid the perceived
weakness in the Lightspeed system with the Skytec starter that has resulted in
damaging kickback with more than one installation. I won't get into the causes
and fixes and who's-to-blame thing, but if you have a small backup battery
that is isolated from the rest of the elec system, you can use it to power one
ignition while cranking the engine from the main battery. This is exactly what
I do on my plane with great results so far...I turn on only the ignition powered
by the backup battery, leaving the main one off. Crank it and it starts great
(even in winter in Iowa, with no primer system). Then I switch on the main
ignition and I'm good to go with no chance of kickback from low voltages on
the Lightspeed...
I wired mine pretty much like Klaus shows with a Schottky diode in between to isolate
the backup battery from the rest of the elec system. I elected not to put
in a switch like Klaus shows to switch the ignition between main and backup...I
didn't see an advantage to it and didn't want to be flipping switches to
get my engine started again (would prefer it doesn't quit to begin with!). I simply
wired my second igntion directly to the +/- terminals of the backup battery.
The main ignition is likewise wired directly to the +/- terminals of the
main battery. The only other thing I have connected to the backup battery is a
voltmeter just so I can monitor it (note: in my case the path to the voltmeter
is switched on/off with the ignition....this is because the voltmeter draws
a small current, so if you wired it always-on it would drain the battery while
the airplane is powered down).
I used a PowerSonic 2.9 Ah battery (PS-1229). It's light and relatively cheap (I
think about $25-30...you can Google it and get lots of hits). I plan to change
the battery every two years to ensure that it's reasonably fresh. I know Klaus
says 4.5 Ah but I thought that was overkill (unless you plan to be flying
over some really rugged terrain/ocean with no alternates within an hour or two
of flight). The 2.9 Ah batt is theoretically good for almost 3 hours of run time
on one ignition (drawing ~ 1A at cruise RPM's). In the unlikely event that
I ever find myself operating the engine soley on the backup battery, I will try
to have it on the ground within an hour. Remember, if you're flying in that
condition it means you've lost everything else in your panel so you're probably
not going to be wanting to continue a long XC under those circumstances! If
I upgrade to IFR I'll put the backup battery in the Dynon and make sure I have
fresh batteries in my handheld comm and GPS.
One nice thing about the PS-1229 is that it can fit into the standard Vans battery
tray along with an Odyssey PC-680. I have the PC-680 at the back of the tray
against the firewall and a piece of angle in front of it (to keep it from sliding
forward). The PS-1229 is in the front of the tray. There is about 3/4"
of space between the two so any sort of melt down/overheat condition of one battery
won't take out the other one.
FWIW, I made up a quick checklist in my POH for main alternator failure. If the
main alternator quits and I plan to continue my flight for over an hour, I will
turn OFF my backup-powered ignition to save the battery just in case it's needed.
I will continue to planned destination running the main igntion and reduced
panel loads (e-bus) and only turn the backup ignition ON when approaching
to land. This way if the main battery craps out on me prior to arrival at my
destination I will be able to keep the engine running with the fully-charged backup
system.
Some may say my setup is overkill, others will think it's inadequate. But it's
my airplane and this setup is one that I'm very comfortable with.
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 8.3 hours...
Subject: RV-List: Backup battery - Lightspeed EI
From: Doug Weiler dcw(at)mnwing.org
-- RV-List message posted by: Doug Weiler dcw(at)mnwing.org
Fellow Listers:
I am contemplating converting my mag driven 0-360 to Lightspeed
electronic ignition. I may consider the dual Lightspeed installation.
Lightspeed calls for a 4.5 amp/hr backup battery (if I so choose). I need
something small and light to squeeze this installation in to my RV-4. For
those that have done this, what backup battery did you use?
Thanks
Doug Weiler
N722DW, 275 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torx head screws? |
On 03/02 6:21, Kevin Horton wrote:
>
> I want to order a bunch of round head and countersunk stainless steel
> screws for non-structural applications. I don't want Phillips
> heads. MicroFasteners sells Torx headed ones. I have next to no
> experience with Torx. Is this a good long term solution? The Torx
> drivers always look too small to me. Do they break, or is it really
> a good solution? Do the receptacles in the head wear much?
My experience with them is that they are a fantastic replacement
for phillips and straight head screws. I've replaced all the phillips
screws I could in the plane. They don't wear out and you can get
the appropriate amount of torque on the screw with practically
zero pressure. You can find the torx bits at any hardware store
that fit in the end of your mechanical screwdriver.
Good stuff.
> Is a hex drive head (e.g. for an Allen wrench) a better solution than
> Torx? If so, who sells suitable 100 degree and round head SS #8 x
> 1/2" screws?
http://www.rv7-a.com/Img_4909.jpg
--
Walter Tondu
http://www.rv7-a.com
Flying!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Teflon hose for inverted fuel pickup? |
Hi Kevin,
I just installed Teflon hoses in my RV-4+ fuel tanks. The Teflon hose is
slightly stiffer than the regular hose I had purchased from Van's. Since my
tanks aren't installed yet, I was able to observe the flop tube assembly moving
around in different tank positions. Looked good.
It's my understanding that Teflon is the only hose material that can be
expected to last when immersed in fuel. The other fuel hose materials
deteriorate over time when fully immersed.
The symptoms of a deteriorated flop tube hose are the same as having the
flop tube fall off the attach fitting. The sides of the hose become porous and
suck air as soon as the fuel level goes down far enough to expose the sides
of the flop tube. Perhaps at the 3 1/2 gallon level? (I helped fix a
Starduster that had this problem.)
There is a flare tube fitting on both ends of Van's hose with a flare tube
to NPT adapter to attach the flop weight.
I made my Teflon hoses with a flare tube fitting at one end and a NPT
fitting at the other end, so I could attach it directly to the flop tube weight.
This made the hose section slightly longer to get back a little flexibility.
I did have to make the hose assembly a 1/4" shorter than standard to clear
the internal fitting for my flush quick drain fitting. RV-4's are a pain to
build, compared to the QB's, but it is a little easier to make those little
nonstructural changes. :-)
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 03/02/2006 3:28:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,
khorton01(at)rogers.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
I'm wondering about replacing my inverted fuel pickup hose with a
Teflon one (e.g. Aeroquip 666) when I open that tank up for
inspection. The regular hoses should be replaced every once in a
while, which will be a lot more difficult if the hose is secured to
the elbow. A Teflon hose is supposedly good forever, if it is
protected from damage, like inside a fuel tank. That way I could put
it in and essentially forget about it. I would probably open the
tank up for a look every few years, but hopefully would never need to
replace anything.
I have no experience with Teflon lined hoses. I have several questions.
1. Is a Teflon hose as "floppy" as a regular hose? A too-stiff
inverted fuel pickup is no good.
2. I don't recall what the floppy end of the hose looks like. Does
it have a standard hose end fitting that the weighted pickup screws
to, or is it something custom?
3. Can I install the hose ends myself, or would I need to order a
custom hose? I would have expected Van to carry this as an option,
but they don't seem to.
4. Does anyone sell a ready-made Teflon hose that is just the right
length for an inverted fuel pickup on an RV-8, or would I need to
measure and order a custom one?
5. Is there any reason other than cost that I shouldn't use a Teflon
hose?
6. It is important to get the right length. I've never figured out
how the hose length is specified. The descriptions I have read talk
about measuring between mating surfaces. But the mated surfaces are
at a 37 degree angle. What do I measure to? Where can I find a
drawing or clear explanation?
Thanks,
Fly safe,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Torx head screws? |
On 2 Mar 2006, at 19:45, Richard McBride wrote:
>
> Kevin,
>
> I used countersunk SS Torx and button head SS Hex screws from
> MicroFasteners in a number of applications on my -8. My experience
> with the Torx has been very positive. The only problem I've
> encountered with the small Torx is that the tools can twist if you
> torque them too much. This is usually only a problem with tight
February 22, 2006 - March 02, 2006
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