RV-Archive.digest.vol-ru
March 12, 2006 - March 29, 2006
Steve Glasgow-Cappy
RV-8 N123SG, 290 Hours
Cappy's Toy
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bertrv6(at)highstream.net |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB Experience |
Quoting Steve Glasgow :
>
> My experience doing the Fuel Tank SB.
>
> The fuel tank SD is a bitch, but doable without removing the tank. All
> total, 10-12 man hours to do the left tank. Experience will help when I do
> the right tank. Start by getting all the parts you need from Van's. Cork
> gaskets for the big hole, rubber gaskets for the fuel sender, 2 small jars
> or peo-seal (really nice and just enough) and whatever screws you want to
> use. Ground the plane.
>
> I started by siphoning as much 100LL out as I could, then I un-screwed the
> drain valve and drained the remainder into a fuel can. Next, I vented the
> tank by holding a vacuum set to blow in the fuel cap hole for about 5
> minutes.
>
> After the tank was vented, I started to remove the old pro-seal before I
> even tried to open the tank this kept the trash out as much as possible. I
> had used way to much pro-seal the first time, so I had a pain removing it.
> I
> found a 1/2 and 1/4 wood chisel worked the best. Also a razor blade helped
> with the heavy stuff. You will find it is easier to work from under the
> plane. After getting as much off as possible I started with the drimel with
> a wire brush and cleaned all the rest off I could. Next,I took the wire
> to the fuel sending unit off and took out the 5 screws that hold the fuel
> sender and removed it with no problem. Again I vented the tank.
>
> Next, you want to remove the fuel line and tape it. It needs to be removed
> at the fuel valve and the tank and pushed into the plane so as to give you
> more room to work in the crack.
>
> Next I taped the fuel sender hole and started on the access cover screws. I
> should have spent more time with the drimel and taken a pick to the heads of
> the screws because I stripped two screws that were loaded with pro-seal. Oh
> well live and learn.
>
> The next day Tonto came to the rescue (Dale Ensing) and we were able to
> remove the stripped screws with his needle nose vice grip pliers. Thanks
> Dale! On re-installation we decided to use the original screws (8-32)
> because the heads were bigger than the hex head screws I had bought. The
> feeling was if the smaller heads were stripped we might not be able to
> remove them with needle nose vice grip pliers.
>
> After the screws were out we managed to release the plate with a heavy duty
> sharpened putty knife and hammer. Carefully moving around the plate a
> little at a time. Dale cleaned the hole in the wing with MKE while I used
> the wire brush on the electric motor to clean the covers. Yes MEK softens
> the goo and will clean it off. Lots of rubbing required but it works.
>
> The B nut was tight and before we took it off we marked where we wanted to
> drill. We drilled the hole in the B nut with Dale's little jig and shafted
> it with 0.32 wire and decided to cant the pick up tube about 1 1/2 inches
> outboard to make for an easier instillation of the cover plate.
>
> Don't forget to clean any trash out of the tank. We used the vacuum with a
> small hose fitted to the vacuum hose and a mirror.
>
> Now it became a two man job. We buttered the cover plate with pro-seal laid
> the gasket in the goo and buttered it again, we added 3 screws to hold the
> gasket in place while we both installed it together. One man above the wing
> carefully hands the unit to the guy below the wing through the crack.
> Really a two man job here to get it in
> place without dislodging all the goo and making a bigger mess. We actually
> practiced the hand off several times before we put the goo on.
>
> Don't forget to liberally tape the edge of the wing on the top and the
> bottom to prevent getting goo on your paint. We dipped each screw into the
> goo and screwed the cover plate down, installed the fuel pick up with the
> rubber gasket, no goo on the gasket this time, just the screws.
>
> Re-install the fuel line, let it cure for at least 4 days, add fuel and say
> a prayer that it doesn't leak!!!!!!!
>
> I will do the right tank after Sun and Fun.
>
> Steve Glasgow-Cappy
> RV-8 N123SG, 290 Hours
> Cappy's Toy
>
> Steve:
I have used Tite-Seal, instead of the Proseal...it has worked well..
Bert
Rv6a
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question for Canadians concerning inspections |
On 11 Mar 2006, at 21:09, Carl Kristensen wrote:
>
>
> My question is for anyone who may have experience with the Canadian
> MD-RA
> inspection system. I am told that I must leave components open for
> inspection but no one is able to tell me exactly what that means.
> Does it
> mean leaving a corner open with a few rivets out, or the entire
> side off?
> The person manning MD-RA office is unable to answer this, and the
> inspector
> in my area refuses to speak to builders.
>
The inspector needs to be able to inspect the inside of any part of
the structure. I discussed this with the guy who was doing the
inspections in Ottawa before I got too far into the project. He
suggested that I leave corners of the HS and VS skin on one side
unriveted so he could peel them back a bit and look inside with an
inspection mirror and a flashlight. I think I left about 10 rivets
at the ends of the spars, and a similar number along the root and tip
ribs. For the elevator and rudder, he wanted to be able to look the
riveting on the stiffeners, so I only riveted one side of the skin to
the spar and ribs.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Question for Canadians concerning inspections |
> I am told that I must leave components open for inspection but no one is able
> to tell me exactly what that means.
My experience was similar to Kevin Horton's. I think it's a really good idea
to work out the details with your individual MD-RA rep before you get very far
with the project, as each one may interpret the requirement slightly
differently.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Carl Kristensen" <carlkristensen(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Question for Canadians concerning inspections |
Wow, thanks for the quick responses!
To all who have asked, I live in London, Ont. I should have mentioned that
in the first email.
It seems to be the consensus that one side should be left clecoed, and that
is what I was leaning toward but it seemed like the inspector would then
only be seeing half of the work (the other half being the open side). This
puts my mind to ease and I can now get back to building.
Thanks again
Carl
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB Experience |
----- Original Message -----
>
> I have used Tite-Seal, instead of the Proseal...it has worked well..
>
> Bert
>
> Rv6a
>
((((((((((()))))))))))))
How long does the titeseal require to cure or set up so fuel can be put back
into the tanks? Would you use it without the cork gaskets?
Indiana Larry
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB Experience |
Let this be a lesson to new builders, don't let this happen to you! Make
your tanks easily removable by painting them separately, and NOT
painting the screws. This could have been a half day job to do both tanks.
Dave -6 SoCal
EAA Technical Counselor
Steve Glasgow wrote:
>
>My experience doing the Fuel Tank SB.
>
>The fuel tank SD is a bitch, but doable without removing the tank. All
>total, 10-12 man hours to do the left tank...
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing tank inspection covers |
Ed,
The Titeseal I used was/is the light weight version.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>Richard, did you use the light or medium weight titeseal compound?
>
>Thanks
>
>Ed
>
>Ed Anderson
>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>Matthews, NC
>eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley(at)att.net>
>To:
>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:04 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>
>
>
>
>>
>>FWIW
>>
>>If you haven't yet sealed your inspection plates onto your tanks or
>>don't like using Pro Seal on your inspection plates, the following may
>>be of interest to you.
>>
>>I originally sealed my tanks about four years ago. I've been flying for
>>a year with about 75 hours on my RV-6A.
>>I used the cork gaskets that were supplied with the wing kit. In the
>>assembly process, I coated the seal area of inboard rib surface with
>>Titeseal (that I purchased from ACS) and placed the cork gasket on the
>>coated surface. I then coated inside mating surface of the inspection
>>plate with the Titeseal and placed it on the gasket. I then inserted the
>>screws and torqued them a moderate amount that resulted in a small
>>compression of the gasket and extrusion of the Titeseal from the edges
>>and around the screws. The original pressure test of the tanks showed no
>>leaks around the inspection plate. After assembling the plane and
>>filling the tanks, there were no fuel leaks around the plates.
>>
>>During the last few days, I removed the tanks to do the recent Service
>>Bulletin. After removing the screws from the inspection plates, they
>>lifted off without any effort. I then cleaned the old Tite-Seal from
>>both the plate and the inboard rib with acetone. After doing the work
>>for the SB, I then repeated the above procedures of Titeseal coating and
>>assembly. The tanks are re-installed and filled with fuel with no leaks.
>>
>>Regards,
>>
>>Richard Dudley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
Thanks, Richard. I will order myself some as well as some of those "O" ring
screws - perhaps I can stop a small but persistent seep - and make it safer.
After having my flop tube flop off in flight, I probably torqued it on so
tight, I won't be able to get it off now{:>)
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 5:29 PM
Subject: Re: Titeseal was Re: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>
> Ed,
> The Titeseal I used was/is the light weight version.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
>
> Ed Anderson wrote:
>
>>
>>Richard, did you use the light or medium weight titeseal compound?
>>
>>Thanks
>>
>>Ed
>>
>>Ed Anderson
>>Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
>>Matthews, NC
>>eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
>>----- Original Message -----
>>From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley(at)att.net>
>>To:
>>Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:04 PM
>>Subject: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>>FWIW
>>>
>>>If you haven't yet sealed your inspection plates onto your tanks or
>>>don't like using Pro Seal on your inspection plates, the following may
>>>be of interest to you.
>>>
>>>I originally sealed my tanks about four years ago. I've been flying for
>>>a year with about 75 hours on my RV-6A.
>>>I used the cork gaskets that were supplied with the wing kit. In the
>>>assembly process, I coated the seal area of inboard rib surface with
>>>Titeseal (that I purchased from ACS) and placed the cork gasket on the
>>>coated surface. I then coated inside mating surface of the inspection
>>>plate with the Titeseal and placed it on the gasket. I then inserted the
>>>screws and torqued them a moderate amount that resulted in a small
>>>compression of the gasket and extrusion of the Titeseal from the edges
>>>and around the screws. The original pressure test of the tanks showed no
>>>leaks around the inspection plate. After assembling the plane and
>>>filling the tanks, there were no fuel leaks around the plates.
>>>
>>>During the last few days, I removed the tanks to do the recent Service
>>>Bulletin. After removing the screws from the inspection plates, they
>>>lifted off without any effort. I then cleaned the old Tite-Seal from
>>>both the plate and the inboard rib with acetone. After doing the work
>>>for the SB, I then repeated the above procedures of Titeseal coating and
>>>assembly. The tanks are re-installed and filled with fuel with no leaks.
>>>
>>>Regards,
>>>
>>>Richard Dudley
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Fuel Tank SB Experience |
Larry,
The Titeseal consistency does not seem to change markedly with time. I
don't believe that there is any sort of "cure". It is a viscous
"honey-like" consistency. When removing the plates after four years, the
gaskets easily separated from the tank and plate surfaces. I refilled
both tanks within an hour of re-mounting the inspection plates. I
checked the area of the seal as I filled the tanks and two days after
with no sign of leakage. After two days without leaks, I re mounted the
wing fairings.
I used new cork gaskets. The old gaskets that I removed were permeated
with the Titeseal. I believe that the gaskets serve a purpose to hold
the Titeseal, allow it to extrude around the screws and that the
saturated cork provides a seal conforming with the two mating surfaces
and is a mechanically strong barrier to leakage.
I, too, would recommend to new builders to paint the tanks separate from
the wings, or at least avoid painting the screws. That avoids the
anxiety of unscrewing painted screws. I was able to remove the tanks,
clean the Titeseal residue, conduct the SB on the pickup tube nut,
replace the inspection plate, replace the tank with all its screws in
about 3-4 hours per tank. A second pair of hands is helpful to navigate
the tank clear of the tubing and avoid scratching the wing.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
LarryRobertHelming wrote:
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>
>
>
>>
>> I have used Tite-Seal, instead of the Proseal...it has worked well..
>>
>>Bert
>>
>>Rv6a
>>
>>
>>
>((((((((((()))))))))))))
>
>How long does the titeseal require to cure or set up so fuel can be put back
>into the tanks? Would you use it without the cork gaskets?
>
>Indiana Larry
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Howell" <cfi1513840(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing tank inspection covers |
Ed,
Here are some links for the Titeseal spec sheets:
Light weight: http://www.gunk.com/prodinfo/T2066.PDF
Medium weight: http://www.gunk.com/prodinfo/T2566.PDF
Ken
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:26 PM
Subject: Titeseal was Re: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
Richard, did you use the light or medium weight titeseal compound?
Thanks
Ed
Ed Anderson
Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
Matthews, NC
eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley(at)att.net>
Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:04 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>
> FWIW
>
> If you haven't yet sealed your inspection plates onto your tanks or
> don't like using Pro Seal on your inspection plates, the following may
> be of interest to you.
>
> I originally sealed my tanks about four years ago. I've been flying for
> a year with about 75 hours on my RV-6A.
> I used the cork gaskets that were supplied with the wing kit. In the
> assembly process, I coated the seal area of inboard rib surface with
> Titeseal (that I purchased from ACS) and placed the cork gasket on the
> coated surface. I then coated inside mating surface of the inspection
> plate with the Titeseal and placed it on the gasket. I then inserted the
> screws and torqued them a moderate amount that resulted in a small
> compression of the gasket and extrusion of the Titeseal from the edges
> and around the screws. The original pressure test of the tanks showed no
> leaks around the inspection plate. After assembling the plane and
> filling the tanks, there were no fuel leaks around the plates.
>
> During the last few days, I removed the tanks to do the recent Service
> Bulletin. After removing the screws from the inspection plates, they
> lifted off without any effort. I then cleaned the old Tite-Seal from
> both the plate and the inboard rib with acetone. After doing the work
> for the SB, I then repeated the above procedures of Titeseal coating and
> assembly. The tanks are re-installed and filled with fuel with no leaks.
>
> Regards,
>
> Richard Dudley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "David Wentzell" <DWentzell(at)wi.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank SB attach screws |
Hello,
I noticed that a couple builders had a problem with the button head cap
screw stripping. I experienced the same problem but in a more accessible
location, and even that was very difficult to remove. My solution for the
tank access covers was to use socket head cap screws. The head is actually
knurled, and sticks up about .125 so if the hex drive does strip there is
something there to easily grip and back it out. McMaster Carr carries them.
David Wentzell - RV6 - 233DW (60 hrs)
Racine, Wisconsin
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Tank SB attach screws |
Listers,
Since this is the hot topic right now, here's a suggestion. Buy a few new
no. 2 Phillips dry wall screw driver bits. Get the kind that have the
serrations at the tip. These will bite into the screws and not strip them out.
They can be taped into a 1/4 inch socket with a turn or two of electrical tape
and turned with a ratchet handle. There's my $.02 worth.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A Flying 144 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Sealing tank inspection covers |
Thanks, Ken. Appreciate it.
Ed
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ken Howell" <cfi1513840(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: Titeseal was Re: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>
> Ed,
>
> Here are some links for the Titeseal spec sheets:
>
> Light weight: http://www.gunk.com/prodinfo/T2066.PDF
>
> Medium weight: http://www.gunk.com/prodinfo/T2566.PDF
>
> Ken
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Anderson
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 8:26 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Titeseal was Re: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>
>
> Richard, did you use the light or medium weight titeseal compound?
>
> Thanks
>
> Ed
>
> Ed Anderson
> Rv-6A N494BW Rotary Powered
> Matthews, NC
> eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Dudley" <rhdudley(at)att.net>
> To:
> Sent: Saturday, March 11, 2006 6:04 PM
> Subject: RV-List: Sealing tank inspection covers
>
>
>>
>> FWIW
>>
>> If you haven't yet sealed your inspection plates onto your tanks or
>> don't like using Pro Seal on your inspection plates, the following may
>> be of interest to you.
>>
>> I originally sealed my tanks about four years ago. I've been flying for
>> a year with about 75 hours on my RV-6A.
>> I used the cork gaskets that were supplied with the wing kit. In the
>> assembly process, I coated the seal area of inboard rib surface with
>> Titeseal (that I purchased from ACS) and placed the cork gasket on the
>> coated surface. I then coated inside mating surface of the inspection
>> plate with the Titeseal and placed it on the gasket. I then inserted the
>> screws and torqued them a moderate amount that resulted in a small
>> compression of the gasket and extrusion of the Titeseal from the edges
>> and around the screws. The original pressure test of the tanks showed no
>> leaks around the inspection plate. After assembling the plane and
>> filling the tanks, there were no fuel leaks around the plates.
>>
>> During the last few days, I removed the tanks to do the recent Service
>> Bulletin. After removing the screws from the inspection plates, they
>> lifted off without any effort. I then cleaned the old Tite-Seal from
>> both the plate and the inboard rib with acetone. After doing the work
>> for the SB, I then repeated the above procedures of Titeseal coating and
>> assembly. The tanks are re-installed and filled with fuel with no leaks.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Richard Dudley
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Kx-125 Instulation Manual |
Hello Larry,
Did you get the installation manual I emailed?
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Wiley
Sent: Sunday, March 12, 2006 7:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Kx-125 Instulation Manual
Fellow RVers, I bought a used KX-125 nav -com for my new RV-7A but I
have no instillation manual for it. If anyone has one, please E-mail me
at wiley(at)citynet.net. Thanks, Larry Wiley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tank SB attach screws |
> I noticed that a couple builders had a problem with the button head cap
> screw stripping. I experienced the same problem but in a more accessible
> location, and even that was very difficult to remove. My solution for the
> tank access covers was to use socket head cap screws. The head is actually
> knurled, and sticks up about .125 so if the hex drive does strip there is
> something there to easily grip and back it out. McMaster Carr carries
> them.
> David Wentzell - RV6 - 233DW (60 hrs)
My own thoughts exactly...
http://www.romeolima.com/RV8/Pictures/Mvc-378x.jpg
Good idea to add some washers also.
Randy Lervold
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | You think YOU'RE building an airplane .... [TAD OFF TOPIC] |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3046542226114078023&q=airbus
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John DeCuir <jadecuir(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Torrance Noise abatement? |
I need some advice from other un-muffled RV owners who fly in and out
of TOA. I'm heading south for the Halibut Derby, and would like to park
at TOA for a couple of nights while fishing. I heard that you can get
fined for exceeding noise limits, but I was unable to find out how much
it might cost if caught. I'm sure it's more than I want to pay. Anyway,
My RV-4 has an O-320 with Vetterman's crossover system, and it's very
loud. How do I get out of TOA without getting cited? Should I full
power climb over the airport as steeply as possible, then pull it back
by the boundary? Where are the sensors?
John DeCuir
RV-4, N204CP
SNS, CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Torrance Noise abatement? |
>I need some advice from other un-muffled RV owners who fly in and out
>of TOA.
Check here if no one knows:
http://www.airnav.com/airport/KTOA
NOISE SENSITIVE AREA ALL QUADS. FOR NOISE ABATEMENT
PROCEDURES INFO CTC ARPT NOISE ABATEMENT (310) 784-7950
OR FREQ 122.9. CERTAIN TURBO JET ACFT PERMLY EXCLUDED.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com> |
Listers...
Does anyone have the Van's filtered airbox laying around that they could measure?
I would like to know the length/width/height of the box and the general diameter
of the box as well. I am trying to determine if it will fit within the
scoop area of my SJ Cowl.
I 'd like the dimensions for an O-320 Carb version and for the O-360 Carb version.
Matthew Brandes,
RV-9A - N523RV
#90569
www.n523rv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB Dimensions |
Check with the James folks - I think they have their own FAB unit for their cowl
- cuz it's a bit tighter IIRC
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Brandes <matthew(at)n523rv.com>
>Sent: Mar 13, 2006 11:43 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: FAB Dimensions
>
>
>Listers...
>
>Does anyone have the Van's filtered airbox laying around that they could measure?
I would like to know the length/width/height of the box and the general diameter
of the box as well. I am trying to determine if it will fit within the
scoop area of my SJ Cowl.
>
>I 'd like the dimensions for an O-320 Carb version and for the O-360 Carb version.
>
>Matthew Brandes,
>RV-9A - N523RV
>#90569
>www.n523rv.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
I am thinking about engine change. Mine has "official" 2200hrs due to logs being
reconstructed many years ago and I think thats unrealistly high. Jugs have
about 800 truly loged. engine has absoluly no oil leaks, uses about 1 qt in 10/12
hrs, nothing sig in oil filt at my 25 hr changes,and runs like a top. good
comp last Jul at cond insp by A&P. This A&P is also IA and RV-4 man. He thought
I should OH or change out engine since its over TBO. I know of engines running
far beyond TBO, and also take particular note about all the 0-360s crank AD,
many Im sure with relativly low time.( My engine is 0-320E2A.) As I recall,
orig builder that I bought it from, let the engine sit coupls years without running,
and knew the history. Anyone have experience with this quandry? Im pretty
much a "if it works dont fix it" kind of guy, but dont want to end up a statistic
with the report reading, Ran the engine beyond TBO. 2nd part- If you
opted to change, would you condider one of the salvage engines from huricane
damage plane with good logs? Oh this engine? buy Rebuilt? Spend the $20k on
the new Exp engine? Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | joelrhaynes(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | capacitance probes and Dynon |
Listers,
Has anyone connected their Van's capacitance probes to the Dynon EIS via the capacitance
converters from Blue Mountain? I'm looking for capacitance to voltage
converters that output 0-5 vDC and I'm wondering if the BMA units will work.
Joel Haynes
Bozeman, MT
7A
Finishing for Oshkosh
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
Charlie:
Sounds like you have a bang up engine. The only real problem we see
with running the engine past TBO is that the longer you run it the more
wear occurs on critical components and the more your overhaul might
cost. I wouldn't buy a core with an unknown history for o'h or
exchange. The core you have sounds like an excellent candidate for
overhaul, and that would be our recommendation. You won't really know
what the condition of the internal components are until the engine is in
teardown, but if your cases, crank and cam are repairable, you are
making a good investment in going with a quality overhaul shop.
Make sure that the engine will be built to Factory New Limits and that
all SBs and ADs are in compliance.
Good luck!
Rhonda Barrett-Bewley
Barrett Precision Engines, Inc.
2870-B N. Sheridan Rd.
Tulsa, OK 74115
(918) 835-1089 phone
(918) 835-1754 fax
www.barrettprecisionengines.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 11:18 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine change
I am thinking about engine change. Mine has "official" 2200hrs due to
logs being reconstructed many years ago and I think thats unrealistly
high. Jugs have about 800 truly loged. engine has absoluly no oil leaks,
uses about 1 qt in 10/12 hrs, nothing sig in oil filt at my 25 hr
changes,and runs like a top. good comp last Jul at cond insp by A&P.
This A&P is also IA and RV-4 man. He thought I should OH or change out
engine since its over TBO. I know of engines running far beyond TBO, and
also take particular note about all the 0-360s crank AD, many Im sure
with relativly low time.( My engine is 0-320E2A.) As I recall, orig
builder that I bought it from, let the engine sit coupls years without
running, and knew the history. Anyone have experience with this quandry?
Im pretty much a "if it works dont fix it" kind of guy, but dont want to
end up a statistic with the report reading, Ran the engine beyond TBO.
2nd part- If you opted to change, would you condider one of the sal!
vage engines from huricane damage plane with good logs? Oh this
engine? buy Rebuilt? Spend the $20k on the new Exp engine? Charlie
Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CP-214 Pneumatic Squeezer for sale |
| From: | windsaloft(at)rmisp.com |
We've been flying the RV for a few years now, and today in the hangar I
stumbled upon...........the ol' squeezer! I had no idea I still had this.
CP-214 Original Chicago Tools Squeezer. It has the quick change pins and
a C-Yoke with a 1.25" opening 1.5" deep and accepts 3/16" shaft dia rivet
sets (none included). THe head was ground down to 3/8" thick to help us
get all the tight rivets on the RV-7 wings. It built one RV-6A in Casper,
WY (that is who I bought it from) and then built a set of -7 wings. It
has been sitting in the WYoming hangar now for two years.
It worked flawlessly for me on the wings, and I oiled it and squeezed it
at the hangar today and still works as well as always. I'll guarantee
that it works when it arrives your location or I'll refund your $$.
$225 plus shipping via UPS ground, insured from Zip 82520. Email with
questions. I wanted to put it in this community first before going the
ebay route.
Terri Watson
flying RV-6A N1977D (a friend's project that I bought)
helping with an RV-7A
fantasizing about that -10 one day......
Lander, WY
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB Dimensions |
Actually I am looking to replace the SJ version of the airbox for some testing
purposes. I currently have the SJ system installed.
I have dimensions for the O-360 thanks to Konrad...
Matthew
Check with the James folks - I think they have their own FAB unit for their cowl
- cuz it's a bit tighter IIRC
-----Original Message-----
>From: Matthew Brandes <matthew(at)n523rv.com>
>Sent: Mar 13, 2006 11:43 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: FAB Dimensions
>
>
>Listers...
>
>Does anyone have the Van's filtered airbox laying around that they could measure?
I would like to know the length/width/height of the box and the general diameter
of the box as well. I am trying to determine if it will fit within the
scoop area of my SJ Cowl.
>
>I 'd like the dimensions for an O-320 Carb version and for the O-360 Carb version.
>
>Matthew Brandes,
>RV-9A - N523RV
>#90569
>www.n523rv.com
Matthew Brandes,
RV-9A - N523RV
#90569
www.n523rv.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CP-214 Pneumatic Squeezer for sale |
windsaloft(at)rmisp.com wrote:
>
>We've been flying the RV for a few years now, and today in the hangar I
>stumbled upon...........the ol' squeezer! I had no idea I still had this.
>
>CP-214 Original Chicago Tools Squeezer. It has the quick change pins and
>a C-Yoke with a 1.25" opening 1.5" deep and accepts 3/16" shaft dia rivet
>sets (none included). THe head was ground down to 3/8" thick to help us
>get all the tight rivets on the RV-7 wings. It built one RV-6A in Casper,
>WY (that is who I bought it from) and then built a set of -7 wings. It
>has been sitting in the WYoming hangar now for two years.
>
>It worked flawlessly for me on the wings, and I oiled it and squeezed it
>at the hangar today and still works as well as always. I'll guarantee
>that it works when it arrives your location or I'll refund your $$.
>
>$225 plus shipping via UPS ground, insured from Zip 82520. Email with
>questions. I wanted to put it in this community first before going the
>ebay route.
>
>Terri Watson
>flying RV-6A N1977D (a friend's project that I bought)
>helping with an RV-7A
>fantasizing about that -10 one day......
>Lander, WY
>
sold!
Just tell me where to send the money & what kind of payment is acceptable.
Charlie
Jackson MS
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Squeezer sold... |
| From: | windsaloft(at)rmisp.com |
If I could figure out how to append it to regular ad, I would --- CP-14
squeezer is sold, glad to keep it in the community vs the ebay void.
Terri
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
I just talked to Ken at Van's about these bearings. I was under the
impression that they were pressed in and it would not be a problem to
change. Well I was informed otherwise. i was told that these are "Captured"
bearings meaning they are between the plates of the hinge brackets and that
I would have to drill out the rivets and disasemble the hinges in order to
change the bearings. How big a deal is this? Looks like the flap and the
wing tip will need to be removed at the least... Looking for input from
those who have done this.
__________________
Scott Frierson
N162RV
RV6A 160HP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Building an engine to put in my 6a |
Im not the builder for Tweetybird, but I do all the work on her. I am not sure
if I can assemble a kit engine myself and install it without a sign off, anybody
know for sure? Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> |
| Subject: | rv6a electric aileron trim wiring? |
Hello,
I am looking for suggestions and possibly pictures of how others have
arranged the wire run out of the aileron and through, or around? the rear
spar.
The trim tab on my 6a is at the out board end of the aileron.
My concern is the same as one query I read in the archives;
How to avoid or at least minimize undue bending and chafing of the wire
during in flight operation?
Jim in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: rv6a electric aileron trim wiring? |
I did my elec ail trim differently - I put the trim servo in the aileron bellcrank
bay impinging the pushrod in a similar fashion the the manual trim so I can't
help about wire routing.
That having been said, I am interested in hearing other solutions as it would apply
to any control stick wiring as well.
Ralph Capen
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Jewell <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Sent: Mar 13, 2006 11:27 PM
Subject: RV-List: rv6a electric aileron trim wiring?
Hello,
I am looking for suggestions and possibly pictures of how others have
arranged the wire run out of the aileron and through, or around? the rear
spar.
The trim tab on my 6a is at the out board end of the aileron.
My concern is the same as one query I read in the archives;
How to avoid or at least minimize undue bending and chafing of the wire
during in flight operation?
Jim in Kelowna
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ross" <dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com> |
| Subject: | Lycoming O-360 fuel pump |
Guys: I need a low pressure fuel pump, Model number LW15472, new or
rebuilt. Anyone out there with an extra? BTW, I found and bought the
Sensenich prop I needed from a great guy in this group. Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | EMAproducts(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | re Engine Change |
I wouldn't buy a core with an unknown history for o'h or
exchange. The core you have sounds like an excellent candidate for
overhaul, and that would be our recommendation. You won't really know
what the condition of the internal components are until the engine is in
teardown, but if your cases, crank and cam are repairable, you are
making a good investment in going with a quality overhaul shop.
I own a PA-28-180 with 2140 TTSN. I have replaced one jug about 200 hrs
ago. This is a 1965 aircraft. It has always been inside and maintained better
than recommended. I would not even consider exchanging it for an unknown
case etc. Especially with the crankshaft problems LYC is having these days.
My
C/S might be 41 years old, but they sure didn't have any AD notes on them
every year! If you have a clean, tight, good running engine I would not even
consider anything except an overhaul by someone you personally know and
trust.
Elbie
Elbie Mendenhall
President
EM Aviation, LLC
13411 NE Prairie Rd
Brush Prairie, WA 98606
360-260-0772
_www.riteangle.com_ (http://www.riteangle.com)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com> |
Scott,
I took these apart and re-assembled (but for a different
reason). No it was not difficult; the larger 1/8"
rivets are easy to drill out without disturbing the hole
by using a smaller drill and working up in size. The
only issue you may have will be to squeeze or pound the
rivets upon assembly - I have a larger (double piston)
squeezer that handles the 1/8" rivets.
I took mine apart to make them look nice.
--
Larry E. James
Bellevue, WA
HR2
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron bearing |
My outer left aileron bearing was frozen on my 1986 rv6 kit. I called vans
and was told to just press it out and repress a new one, which I did and
havent had any trouble. Do you have your plans?
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
265 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:50 PM
Subject: RV-List: Aileron bearing
>
> I just talked to Ken at Van's about these bearings. I was under the
> impression that they were pressed in and it would not be a problem to
> change. Well I was informed otherwise. i was told that these are
> "Captured"
> bearings meaning they are between the plates of the hinge brackets and
> that
> I would have to drill out the rivets and disasemble the hinges in order to
> change the bearings. How big a deal is this? Looks like the flap and the
> wing tip will need to be removed at the least... Looking for input from
> those who have done this.
> __________________
> Scott Frierson
> N162RV
> RV6A 160HP
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Aileron bearing |
Jeff,
My wing kit is mid 90s vintage and there is a revision on the bearings from
the pressed in (small) bearing to the com-3-5 (large) bearings. According to
Ken the smaller one were pressed in but they were concerned with them coming
out so they went to the larger bearings that are sandwiched (captured)
between the hinge plates and riveted together thus requiring disassembling
to replace. No fun...
Scott
>From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Aileron bearing Date: Tue, 14 Mar 2006 18:40:09 -0600
>
>
>My outer left aileron bearing was frozen on my 1986 rv6 kit. I called vans
>and was told to just press it out and repress a new one, which I did and
>havent had any trouble. Do you have your plans?
>
>Shemp/Jeff Dowling
>RV-6A, N915JD
>265 hours
>Chicago/Louisville
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
>To:
>Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 8:50 PM
>Subject: RV-List: Aileron bearing
>
>
> >
> > I just talked to Ken at Van's about these bearings. I was under the
> > impression that they were pressed in and it would not be a problem to
> > change. Well I was informed otherwise. i was told that these are
> > "Captured"
> > bearings meaning they are between the plates of the hinge brackets and
> > that
> > I would have to drill out the rivets and disasemble the hinges in order
>to
> > change the bearings. How big a deal is this? Looks like the flap and the
> > wing tip will need to be removed at the least... Looking for input from
> > those who have done this.
> > __________________
> > Scott Frierson
> > N162RV
> > RV6A 160HP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Tornado dmage in Bentonville Ar |
I was over at Berryville today and heard that BVT had taken a bad jhit in the Sun
night Tornado. I flew over it on way back and saw that FBO boulding was pretty
much gone, and hanger beside it to the north was destroyed, i saw 2 planes
upside down/on end in the FBO and about 6or 7 torn up in and beside the hanger
buildings remains. I know there are at least 2 RV's At BVT, but lost contact,
anybody have any knowledge? Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
Listers-
I have a buddy that has a Bike Friday for sale. He is a serious competition
street bike rider and this folding bike just didn't fit the bill for him. I
have the bike currently in my possession and it is a nice Candy Red finish,
in like new condition, is equipped with Campagnolo (sp) derailleurs, has been
ridden a total of 500 miles and includes a tough plastic travel case.
I believe he wants USD $700 for it, so if you're interested, e-mail me
directly and I will put you in touch with him.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 777hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Tornado dmage in Bentonville Ar |
| From: | "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com> |
The Cherokee 6 you saw upside down is Doug Stone's (RV10 builder.) I
talked to Doug yesterday, and he said that the main spar broke, so he
expects the plane to be a complete loss. The NW Arkansas EAA chapter
has photos on their website.
Rhonda
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tornado dmage in Bentonville Ar
I was over at Berryville today and heard that BVT had taken a bad jhit
in the Sun night Tornado. I flew over it on way back and saw that FBO
boulding was pretty much gone, and hanger beside it to the north was
destroyed, i saw 2 planes upside down/on end in the FBO and about 6or 7
torn up in and beside the hanger buildings remains. I know there are at
least 2 RV's At BVT, but lost contact, anybody have any knowledge?
Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tornado dmage in Bentonville Ar |
As I understand it he only had 50 hrs on his 540? Charlie
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rhonda Bewley" <Rhonda(at)bpaengines.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:16 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Tornado dmage in Bentonville Ar
The Cherokee 6 you saw upside down is Doug Stone's (RV10 builder.) I
talked to Doug yesterday, and he said that the main spar broke, so he
expects the plane to be a complete loss. The NW Arkansas EAA chapter
has photos on their website.
Rhonda
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco
Sent: Tuesday, March 14, 2006 8:00 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tornado dmage in Bentonville Ar
I was over at Berryville today and heard that BVT had taken a bad jhit
in the Sun night Tornado. I flew over it on way back and saw that FBO
boulding was pretty much gone, and hanger beside it to the north was
destroyed, i saw 2 planes upside down/on end in the FBO and about 6or 7
torn up in and beside the hanger buildings remains. I know there are at
least 2 RV's At BVT, but lost contact, anybody have any knowledge?
Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> |
Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a rib?
My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 - long, skinny rudder
rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other way. Drat. I figure
anything that could be done now would probably result in fatigued metal
anyway.
Paul
9A QB 1176
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | help building a -4 |
| From: | "Wilder, Scott (US)" <Scott.Wilder(at)am.jll.com> |
It has come the time in my project for a little extra motivation for I
fear I may never finish. I am building a -4, wings and feathers
complete, fuse bulkheads are jigged but no drilling yet, I have heard of
some traveling helpers that work for so much an hour, I just want enough
help to get the thing out of the jig then I think I could continue solo.
Can anybody help here? I am in SF bay area, CA, any of you who used
these guys care to comment? Feel free to contact me off list, thanks,
scott.wilder(at)am.jll.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
On 8:45:53 2006-03-15 "Folbrecht, Paul"
wrote:
> Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a rib?
>
> My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 - long, skinny rudder
> rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other way. Drat. I figure
> anything that could be done now would probably result in fatigued
> metal anyway.
Fear not! You can gently squeeze some of the flutes with a pair of seaming
pliers (two flat plates welded to a pair of vise-grip jaws) or something
similar. Heck, even putting the rib on edge on your wooden shop table, and
hitting the flute gently with your dead-blow hammer would probably flatten
them out adequately.
The fluting process doesn't stress the material so much that a little
"unbending" will hurt it. Be gentle, and spread the unbending out over the
entire rib, and the part will be just fine.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <dan.beadle(at)inclinesoftworks.com> |
I use a hand seamer - pliers with a 3" wide jaw - to take out some of the
over fluting. Seems to work fine.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Folbrecht, Paul
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:46 AM
Subject: RV-List: Over-fluting
Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a rib?
My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 - long, skinny rudder
rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other way. Drat. I figure
anything that could be done now would probably result in fatigued metal
anyway.
Paul
9A QB 1176
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
Hand seamer, squeeze the flutes out a bit. It happens.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 8:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Over-fluting
>
>
> Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a rib?
>
>
> My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 - long, skinny rudder
> rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other way. Drat. I figure
> anything that could be done now would probably result in fatigued metal
> anyway.
>
>
> Paul
>
> 9A QB 1176
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
| From: | "Glaeser, Dennis A" <dennis.glaeser(at)eds.com> |
I've done that, and to un-do it I just turned my fluting pliers at as
close to 90 degrees as I could get and squeezed a bit to flatten the
flute a bit. Or sandwich the flute between a couple of scraps of metal
and squeeze it with pliers (or whatever). It doesn't take much. You'd
have to flute and (totally) flatten the same spot more than a couple of
times before you have to worry about fatiguing the metal.
Dennis Glaeser
7A Fuselage
-------------------------------------
Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a rib? My fluting was
going well until I got to R-903 - long, skinny rudder rib. I over-did it
and it's now bowed the other way. Drat. I figure anything that could be
done now would probably result in fatigued metal anyway.
Paul 9A QB 1176
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs. 74" Hartzell
blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to find any
specific information relative to propeller diameter.
Jim Thorne
7A-QB CHD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv6fly(at)bresnan.net |
"unsubscribe"
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | striplic(at)tetric.com |
| Subject: | Wanted RV9A Project |
Refer to the RV9 list for details. Cliff Stripling striplic(at)tetric.com (830)693-2386
--
This message was sent on behalf of striplic(at)tetric.com at openSubscriber.com
http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/rv-list@matronics.com/topic.html
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trevor Mills" <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au> |
A question for the guys who have bonded the canopy's on, How have you attached
the side skirts (RV8) Bonding or rivets ?
Trevor Mills 80605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Cleaveland Aircraft Tool" <mail(at)cleavelandtool.com> |
| Subject: | Sun-n-Fun Tool Sale! |
Sun-n-Fun Season Sale
No Florida Sales Tax - No Heavy Sacks to Carry
Due to Sun-n-Fun's display rate increase Cleaveland Aircraft Tool will not be attending
this year.
We regret not seeing everyone there and will truly miss attending.
Instead we have decided to offer special pricing from now through April 7th 2006.
There is something for everyone.
For New Builders:
When ordering our "Complete Airframe Tool Kit" you will get $50 off,
Plus a $50 gift certificate to use on future orders,
Plus you will be entered in a drawing to win our new "Ultimate Drill Upgrade",
an upgrade to the Sioux drill in the complete kit.
For Current Builders:
When ordering $200 or more you will receive 10% off the order total,
Plus you will be entered in a drawing to win one $100 gift certificate that will
be given each week through the end of the sale.
( your name will remain in the drawing until the end of the sale so order early
)
For Completed Builders:
When ordering Canopy Covers, and Sunshades (which can be delivered in time for
your SNF trip) you will receive 20% off,
Plus a Cleaveland Tool T-Shirt.
Place your order on the web at: www.cleavelandtool.com or by phone, discounts and drawings will be applied when order is shipped.
Thank you,
Mike
Mike Lauritsen
Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
2225 First St.
Boone, Iowa 50036
515-432-6794
mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | lance553(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net>
>
> Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs. 74"
> Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to find
> any specific information relative to propeller diameter.
>
> Jim Thorne
> 7A-QB CHD
>
> I asked this of one of Van's engineers and he advised me to go with the 74 for
more thrust. I have 127 hours now on my Aerosport 0-360/74" combo. The airplane
jumps off the ground and moves out smartly.
Lance Johnson
RV-8A
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Canopy bonding |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
I haven't completed mine yet, but I will be riveting the skirts
to the frame and putting a bead of Sikaflex between the inner
skirt and outskirt thus sandwiching the plexy at that location
- I will NOT be drilling through the plexy.
g
>
>
> A question for the guys who have bonded the canopy's on, How
> have you attached the side skirts (RV8) Bonding or rivets ?
>
> Trevor Mills 80605
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help building a -4 |
Okay... Scott V. are you out there? You're much closer than me. You're 4's
been flyin' for quite awhile. If you're out there, answer up and see if you
can arrange some of your time. It's for a good cause. Remember when we were
at that scary fuse stage??? It was kinda' intimidating huh.
It has come the time in my project for a little extra motivation for I
fear I may never finish. I am building a -4, wings and feathers
complete, fuse bulkheads are jigged but no drilling yet, I have heard of
some traveling helpers that work for so much an hour, I just want enough
help to get the thing out of the jig then I think I could continue solo.
Can anybody help here? I am in SF bay area, CA, any of you who used
these guys care to comment? Feel free to contact me off list, thanks,
scott.wilder(at)am.jll.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: > Re: Over-fluting |
I have completely reversed flutes a couple of times : before I painted the
BACK side of my fluting pliers RED !!!
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
Turn the fluting pliers over putting the center node
exactly on the center of the flute it created. Gently
squeeze till the reverse bend is gone.
Dave
--- "Folbrecht, Paul"
wrote:
>
>
> Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a
> rib?
>
>
>
> My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 -
> long, skinny rudder
> rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other
> way. Drat. I figure
> anything that could be done now would probably
> result in fatigued metal
> anyway.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> 9A QB 1176
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
On 3/15/06, Jim Thorne wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs.
> 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to
> find any specific information relative to propeller diameter.
>
> Jim Thorne
> 7A-QB CHD
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom Barnes" <skytop(at)megsinet.net> |
Cc:
| Subject: | Re: Sun-n-Fun Tool Sale! |
Builders,
I take this opportunity to give an ATA-BOY to Cleveland. One of our
(Chicago) local builders became ill and died of cancer shortly after he had
purchased Cleveland's complete RV-4 tool package. The tools were vertually
unused but over a year old. Cleveland refunded dollar-for-dollar.
The old story about not going wrong by dealing with the "A,B,C's" is
true again.
Please archive!
Tom Barnes, Buffalo Grove, IL
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cleaveland Aircraft Tool" <mail(at)cleavelandtool.com>
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 4:20 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sun-n-Fun Tool Sale!
>
>
> Sun-n-Fun Season Sale
>
> ~snip
~snip
>
> Mike Lauritsen
>
> Cleaveland Aircraft Tool
>
> 2225 First St.
>
> Boone, Iowa 50036
>
> 515-432-6794
>
> mike(at)cleavelandtool.com
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Adding Glideslope |
I am adding a KN-73 to provide glideslope info to my KX-125 and Century HSI (NSD
1000). Has anyone done this before? Do you have install manuals/pinouts for
these avionics?
Thanks!
Jeff Bertsch
RV-4
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Another RV-8 airborne |
Hi All,
The FAA finally showed up this morning, looked over my RV-8 and my
paperwork and bestowed upon me an Airworthiness Certificate for "Miss
Izzy". The guy was here for less than 20 minutes! He never got closer
than 4 feet from the airplane and scanned my 80-page test program in
less than 10 seconds! I wasn't counting on an inspection as I have had
two visits from EAA Tech Counselors and my friend and RV-8 owner, Jerry
Cornwell (AI) spent about 2 hours with a flashlight and mirror looking
over the plane this past Sunday.
The flight went without a hitch. The engine ran smooth, cool and
powerful. The EFIS and radios worked flawlessly and the plane flew
straight as an arrow. The only "correction" needed is a bit of right
rudder trim. I only flew for about 25 minutes, established a stall
buffet at 54 knots clean, 52 knots with half flaps and 49 knots with
full flaps. After a low pass of the airfield with the smoke system
billowing I touched down and did my best to suppress the cheesy RV grin.
It didn't work. I'm still grinning!
The plane has a Lycoming IO-360 built by Mattituck with Aerosport
fuel injection, dual Lightspeed electronic ignitions and a Whirlwind
200RV constant speed prop. The panel has dual GRT EFIS, SL-30 comm/nav,
Garmin 327 transponder, Trio autopilot with altitude hold. Interior is
by Flightline Interiors, belts from Hooker and paint is Imron applied in
my homemade paint booth.
I'll be tearing up the 50-mile radius around Gold Hill Airpark
(NC25) for the next 40 hours. Hope to have Phase I done in time for
Sun-N-Fun.
Thanks to Steve Glasgow for lending a third hand whenever needed and
providing lots of back seat time in his own RV-8. I'll be seeing you
all a bit more now that I have wings!
Ron Schreck
RV-8 #81589
Gold Hill Airpark, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Another RV-8 airborne |
Hi Ron,
CONGRADULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)alltel.net>
>
>
> Hi All,
>
> > The flight went without a hitch. The engine ran smooth, cool and
>powerful. I'm still grinning!
> >Ron Schreck
>RV-8 #81589
>Gold Hill Airpark, NC
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) |
I have the answer, I got it from Hartzell. Its prop
data on the HC-C2YK/F7666. It is similar but
it does show some trends based on dia.
The nod goes to.......
Climbing (slower speed) = 74"
Cruise, High speed & higher RPM = 72"
Bottom line
Low speeds 74"
Higher speeds 72"
When I say better, I mean one prop may be 1/8 th of
one percent better, to may be 1/2% to 1% more efficient
at best for a particular flight condition.
When I say efficency I don't mean performance.
You may throttle (rpm) back and get more prop efficency
but you get less thrust and thus less speed. In
general RPM is a big factor on efficency at cruise
speeds for any diameter. If you play to the 72" you
would climb at a faster speed. Efficency may increase
but rate of climb goes down. TINSTAAFL.
If you're a racer, want to go fast the 72" is better.
In climb at slower speeds the 74" prop is better.
The 72" seems to always enjoy a slight edge in cruise
and even more at higher speeds and RPMs. The 74"
seems to alwasy enjoy a slight edge in climb and even
more at slower speeds
Better means if you fly side by side at the same RPM
one plane may go 1/2 mph faster or climb 50 fpm
faster. Slight, not big differences, but differences.
What to buy? I like going fast but I like having the extra
2" of prop material. At least you have something to trim if
there is tip damage, but than if it was 2" smaller dia you
might not get the tip damage in the first place?
Sorry can't tell you what to do, but I am leaning to the 74"
for more rework material if it was me. The BA prop has the
extra 3.5 edge on the HC-C2YK any way, and about 3 mph
over the WW RV200 prop, so you can give 1/2 mph away
and enjoy that extra 50 fpm climb. :-)
Specific question email me off line. George
>From: "Jim Thorne"
>Subject: RV-List: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
>
>
>Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a
>72" vs. 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and
>was unable to find any specific information relative to propeller diameter.
>
>Jim Thorne
>7A-QB CHD
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil for 320 Lycoming Coming Soon |
FYI,
For all the builders using 320 Lycomings the blended airfoil prop is less than
a year away they say...
Darrell
"Bob C. " wrote:
I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
On 3/15/06, Jim Thorne wrote:
>
>
> Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs.
> 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to
> find any specific information relative to propeller diameter.
>
> Jim Thorne
> 7A-QB CHD
>
>
---------------------------------
Brings words and photos together (easily) with
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Supirior kit built IO-360 |
I see that Superior has been taken ove by the German Co, Theilert, and wondered
who on the list has built and is using one of the Sup 360 engines?? Charles Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> |
Thanks for all the responses on the fluting issue! Mainly I was
concerned about fatiguing the metal. It was indeed easy to un-flute
using the seamer.
Paul
9A QB #1176
HS & VS done, working on rudder
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Nellis
Sent: Wednesday, March 15, 2006 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Over-fluting
Turn the fluting pliers over putting the center node
exactly on the center of the flute it created. Gently
squeeze till the reverse bend is gone.
Dave
--- "Folbrecht, Paul"
wrote:
>
>
> Is there really any way to undo over-fluting of a
> rib?
>
>
>
> My fluting was going well until I got to R-903 -
> long, skinny rudder
> rib. I over-did it and it's now bowed the other
> way. Drat. I figure
> anything that could be done now would probably
> result in fatigued metal
> anyway.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> 9A QB 1176
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | LessDragProd(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
The difference may be more than performance.
The 72" diameter is the minimum diameter of the Hartzell propeller. Damage
the tips on a 72" diameter Hartzell, and the complete propeller is scrap.
If the 74" diameter blades are damaged, and can be trimmed to a 72"
diameter, or greater, then the blades would be useable. Unfortunately, the hub
is
still scrapped.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 03/15/2006 6:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. "
I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | re: Adding Glideslope |
| From: | John Allen <fliier(at)altrionet.com> |
CC:
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
That's what Hartzell told me when I called them directly and so I ordered a 74"
prop as well.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
>
>
> The difference may be more than performance.
>
> The 72" diameter is the minimum diameter of the Hartzell propeller. Damage
> the tips on a 72" diameter Hartzell, and the complete propeller is scrap.
>
> If the 74" diameter blades are damaged, and can be trimmed to a 72"
> diameter, or greater, then the blades would be useable. Unfortunately, the hub
> is
> still scrapped.
>
> Regards,
> Jim Ayers
>
> In a message dated 03/15/2006 6:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
>
>
> I also asked Van's the same question re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
> person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
> there is a world of difference?!
>
> Bob in SE-Iowa
> RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
That's what Hartzell told me when I called them directly and so I ordered a 74"
prop as well.
-------------- Original message --------------
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
-- RV-List message posted by: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
The difference may be more than performance.
The 72" diameter is the minimum diameter of the Hartzell propeller. Damage
the tips on a 72" diameter Hartzell, and the complete propeller is scrap.
If the 74" diameter blades are damaged, and can be trimmed to a 72"
diameter, or greater, then the blades would be useable. Unfortunately, the hub
is
still scrapped.
Regards,
Jim Ayers
In a message dated 03/15/2006 6:53:42 PM Pacific Standard Time,
flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com writes:
-- RV-List message posted by: "Bob C. "
I also asked Van's the same q
uestion re: my RV-8 with O-360 clone . . . the
person I talked to recommended the 72" version . . . I really don't think
there is a world of difference?!
Bob in SE-Iowa
RV-8 - Finishing Slowly!!
onics.com/contribution
________________________________________________________________________________
Cc: rv7a(at)cox.net
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
| From: | Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Hi Jim,
The general laws of aerodynamics say that the larger diameter will give
better low speed thrust and the smaller diameter will be better for high
speed flight. This may not hold true depending on how Hartzell shaped
the blades, but all other things being equal it should work this way.
Whether there's a measurable difference between these two diameters is
arguable. I got the 74" in part because it allows you to cut off 1" of
each tip in case of damage and still be airworthy. Of course it might be
more likely to get damaged if it's longer to begin with so this may be a
toss-up.
If I had to do it over, I'd be inclined to go with the smaller diameter
because during full power runups to set the low-pitch stop, my 74" prop
sucked up a lot of sand and now the paint looks like crap on the leading
edges. It's pretty close to the ground on the nosedraggers and 1" might
make a measurable difference in how much trash your prop picks up on the
ground.
Or just flip a coin and pick one : )
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D 11.3 hours flying...
------------------------------------------------------
From: "Jim Thorne" <rv7a(at)cox.net>
Subject: RV-List: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
Does anyone have any information on pros and cons on choosing a 72" vs.
74" Hartzell
blended airfoil prop? Have searched archives and was unable to find any
specific information relative to propeller diameter.
Jim Thorne
7A-QB CHD
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) |
George,
I know a lot of alphabets, i.e. ATC,IFR, and so forth,
but what is TINSTAAFL?
Dave
--- gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com wrote:
>
>
> I have the answer, I got it from Hartzell. Its prop
> data on the HC-C2YK/F7666. It is similar but
> it does show some trends based on dia.
>
> The nod goes to.......
> Climbing (slower speed) = 74"
> Cruise, High speed & higher RPM = 72"
>
> Bottom line
> Low speeds 74"
> Higher speeds 72"
>
>
> When I say better, I mean one prop may be 1/8 th
> of
> one percent better, to may be 1/2% to 1% more
> efficient
> at best for a particular flight condition.
>
> When I say efficency I don't mean performance.
> You may throttle (rpm) back and get more prop
> efficency
> but you get less thrust and thus less speed. In
> general RPM is a big factor on efficency at cruise
>
> speeds for any diameter. If you play to the 72"
> you
> would climb at a faster speed. Efficency may
> increase
> but rate of climb goes down. TINSTAAFL.
>
> If you're a racer, want to go fast the 72" is
> better.
> In climb at slower speeds the 74" prop is better.
>
> The 72" seems to always enjoy a slight edge in
> cruise
> and even more at higher speeds and RPMs. The 74"
> seems to alwasy enjoy a slight edge in climb and
> even
> more at slower speeds
>
> Better means if you fly side by side at the same
> RPM
> one plane may go 1/2 mph faster or climb 50 fpm
> faster. Slight, not big differences, but
> differences.
>
>
> What to buy? I like going fast but I like having
> the extra
> 2" of prop material. At least you have something
> to trim if
> there is tip damage, but than if it was 2" smaller
> dia you
> might not get the tip damage in the first place?
>
> Sorry can't tell you what to do, but I am leaning
> to the 74"
> for more rework material if it was me. The BA prop
> has the
> extra 3.5 edge on the HC-C2YK any way, and about 3
> mph
> over the WW RV200 prop, so you can give 1/2 mph
> away
> and enjoy that extra 50 fpm climb. :-)
>
> Specific question email me off line. George
>
>
>
> >From: "Jim Thorne"
> >Subject: RV-List: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
> >
> >
> >Does anyone have any information on pros and cons
> on choosing a
> >72" vs. 74" Hartzell blended airfoil prop? Have
> searched archives and
> >was unable to find any specific information
> relative to propeller diameter.
> >
> >Jim Thorne
> >7A-QB CHD
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
> browse
> Subscriptions page,
> FAQ,
>
> Admin.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Panel Pictures |
I'm updating my presentation on Panel and Cockpit Design and could use a few
pictures of EFIS panels. If you're willing to share pictures of your EFIS
panels, either full or partial, please email me directly at >>
crowbotham(at)hotmail.com.
Thanks,
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Vanremog(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the answer, kind-a) |
In a message dated 3/16/2006 6:53:52 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,
truflite(at)yahoo.com writes:
I know a lot of alphabets, i.e. ATC,IFR, and so forth,
but what is TINSTAAFL?
============================
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 777hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper) |
| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
A tip to avoid over fluting is to lay the rib flat on the worktable
after marking each fluting location and kneel down so your eyes are at
table level looking under the rib toward the light from the open door.
As you squeeze the fluting pliers you will see the rib sink down to the
flat tabletop and the light coming under the bowed rib will disappear as
it flattens out. Just gently move around the rib deepening some flutes
until no light comes underneath the now straightened (flattened) rib.
Pete Cowper
RV8 #81139
Hanger B-5
Visalia Municipal Airport
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com> |
| Subject: | EFIS Panel Pictures |
Pictures of my RV6A 3 piece panel.
John Furey
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Any RV flying CFIs on the east coast? |
I need another 4.4 hours of *instruction* in an RV (even though I've already been
RV approved by Jan Bussell) to make a certain underwriter happy. Anyone know
of someone closer to PA than Florida who fits that bill?
Please contace me offline.
Thanks,
Lucky
484 326 1465
I need another 4.4 hours of *instruction* in an RV (even though I've already been
RV approved by Jan Bussell) to make a certain underwriter happy. Anyone know
of someonecloser to PA than Florida who fits that bill?
Please contace me offline.
Thanks,
Lucky
484 326 1465
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bill Dube <william.p.dube(at)noaa.gov> |
| Subject: | Re: Over-fluting |
I actually use the front edge of the workbench instead of the top. I
hold the rib against the edge of the workbench as I flute. This is a
natural position to grip the pliers. You can look down and see the gap
narrow as you squeeze.
Bill Dube'
Pete Cowper wrote:
>
>A tip to avoid over fluting is to lay the rib flat on the worktable
>after marking each fluting location and kneel down so your eyes are at
>table level looking under the rib toward the light from the open door.
>As you squeeze the fluting pliers you will see the rib sink down to the
>flat tabletop and the light coming under the bowed rib will disappear as
>it flattens out. Just gently move around the rib deepening some flutes
>until no light comes underneath the now straightened (flattened) rib.
>
>Pete Cowper
>RV8 #81139
>Hanger B-5
>Visalia Municipal Airport
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club" <sisson(at)consolidated.net> |
| Subject: | Sun and fun fuel, food, and motel stop 3LF 3LF 3LF |
Those going to and coming from Sun and Fun from Iowa, Nebraska,
Minnesota areas might want to check out our fuel prices and
accomodations. We also have an old junk courtesy car on a first come
first serve basis..
Restaurants and Motels are about a mile down the street. Tent camping
is ok and you can put up over night in the admin building if you want.
Take a look at the website and click on the aerial photos to get a look
at things..
http://www.wamusa.com/members/airport/
Phil, RV6 N181RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com> |
| Subject: | Not Delivered Messages |
All,
Those Not Delivered 'cause its Spam messages aren't coming from Matronics and messages
are in fact being delivered to the List distribution. Someone on the
Lists is returning those messages. The return messages themselves don't seem
to have the actual email address of the person sending them. I'm running my Email
Weasel right now, which should hopefully "weasel" out who the person is and
unsubscribe them.
Matt
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle(at)matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun and fun fuel, food, and motel stop 3LF 3LF 3LF |
Phil Sisson, Litchfield Aerobatic Club wrote:
>
> Those going to and coming from Sun and Fun from Iowa, Nebraska,
> Minnesota areas might want to check out our fuel prices and
> accomodations. We also have an old junk courtesy car on a first come
> first serve basis..
> Restaurants and Motels are about a mile down the street. Tent camping
> is ok and you can put up over night in the admin building if you want.
>
> Take a look at the website and click on the aerial photos to get a look
> at things..
>
> http://www.wamusa.com/members/airport/
And I can assure you from first-hand experience the courtesy car is a
hoot! Getting to town and back was nearly as exciting as departing OSH
2005. :-)
Seriously, Phil's home airport is a fine stop, and the car did a great
job of wallowing to lunch and back. The occasional backfire blended
right in with the, uh, tailwinds the four occupants were producing, and
the fact the windows had to be sorta rolled/slid down was a bonus. Fuel
prices were the best we found in the area.
I'll probably stop again for OSH 2006.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: TANSTAAFL or TINSTAAFL |
Dave:
Its Acronym, Meaning. ****,
TINSTAAFL, There Is No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
BUT IT REALLY SHOULD BE
TANSTAAFL ... is an acronym for the adage
"There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch,"
popularized by science ...
According to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TANSTAAFL
The correct acronym is the latter, my mistake, but the meaning
is the same and very true.
George
*********************************************************************************
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" (I have the
answer, kind-a)
George,
I know a lot of alphabets, i.e. ATC,IFR, and so forth,
but what is TINSTAAFL?
Dave
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | FAB instructions needed |
I have lost all my instruction sheets that came with my FAB kit. I was
hoping to work on it this weekend, but I want the instructions in front
of me. Does anyone have them that can scan them and send them to me via
email?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | XP-0360 and FAB install |
Anybody with a XP-0360 have pictures of thier FAB instalation on a web site?
--
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | re: Adding Glideslope |
Hello John,
I can report that all features of the KX-125 work properly and it drives the
CDI just fine in the Century HSI. I have had no problems with the KX-125 nav
or comm features.
Jeff
John Allen wrote:
000). . .
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74" |
Mark:
Is actually not arguable it is just small. I have actual Hartzell data
as I mentioned, but not for the BA, for the C2YK.
Granted analytical data and actual performance on a plane may very,
but if comparing diameter on the same plane there will be real diffences,
they are just small. We are talking about 0.1% to 2.0% diffence, real
but small. The 74" has a real advantage at Vx or Vy speed in climb.
The 72" has a real but smaller advantage in high speed curise. For
most flyers the 74" is the way to go.
George
***************************************************************************************
Subject: RV-List: Re: Blended Airfoil 72" vs. 74"
From: Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Hi Jim,
The general laws of aerodynamics say that the larger diameter will
give better low speed thrust and the smaller diameter will be better
for high speed flight. This may not hold true depending on how
Hartzell shaped the blades, but all other things being equal it should
work this way. Whether there's a measurable difference between
these two diameters is arguable.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Weekly newsletter idea |
| From: | "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net> |
Everyone who subscribed to the RV Builder's Hotline via e-mail should have received a copy in their INBOX this morning. If not, check your sp*m settings and delete box. A list of "returned mail" is kept at the online edition at: [url]http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/ [/url], so you may want to check there too.
Sorry for the delay. They were all supposed to go out at midnight but Comcast doesn't,
apparently, like hundreds of e-mails being sent out at once so I had to
break it up into 10 distribution lists.
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22462#22462
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com> |
Cc:
| Subject: | San FRancisco CFI's |
Does anyone know of any CFI's in the Bay Area who could help transition a
friend to an RV-6A? All of his previous flight time is in Cessna's. The
plane is at HWD.
Thanks,
Parker Thomas
____________________________________
F. Parker Thomas
ShredFirst
phone 510-433-0200
fax 510-217-5976
parker(at)shredfirst.biz
www.shredfirst.biz
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <dan(at)rdan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weekly newsletter idea |
Thanks Bob,
Great info,
Dan,
-8 tail
Bob Collins wrote:
Everyone who subscribed to the RV Builder's Hotline via e-mail should have received a copy in their INBOX this morning. If not, check your sp*m settings and delete box. A list of "returned mail" is kept at the online edition at: [url]http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/ [/url], so you may want to check there too.
Sorry for the delay. They were all supposed to go out at midnight but Comcast doesn't,
apparently, like hundreds of e-mails being sent out at once so I had to
break it up into 10 distribution lists.
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=22462#22462
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Bobby Hester <bhester(at)hopkinsville.net> |
| Subject: | Re: FAB instructions needed |
I got the instruction no longer needed.
Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY
Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/
RV7A Slowbuild wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-)
Bobby Hester wrote:
>
>I have lost all my instruction sheets that came with my FAB kit. I was
>hoping to work on it this weekend, but I want the instructions in front
>of me. Does anyone have them that can scan them and send them to me via
>email?
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weekly newsletter idea |
This is a great summary of interesting things from various sources. I don't
see it as competition to any of the email lists or bulletin boards -- just a
great compilation of the best of the week by an experienced editor.
Thanks Bob!
Terry
RV-8A #80729 baffling
Seattle
Everyone who subscribed to the RV Builder's Hotline via e-mail should have
received a copy in their INBOX this morning. If not, check your sp*m
settings and delete box. A list of "returned mail" is kept at the online
edition at: [url]http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/ [/url], so you may
want to check there too.
Sorry for the delay. They were all supposed to go out at midnight but
Comcast doesn't, apparently, like hundreds of e-mails being sent out at once
so I had to break it up into 10 distribution lists.
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Weekly newsletter idea |
Don't give up Bob. I had Meniere's Disease years ago. It passed and has
never come back. Now enjoying the RV-6A.
Dale Ensing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Scott <rscott(at)cascadeaccess.com> |
| Subject: | Spouse afraid to fly |
I was showing a newbie my project when he mentioned that his wife didn't
like to fly, didn't want him flying and was totally against him building a
plane, but he was going to do it anyway.
There used to be an RV around the area named "Divorce One" and I see a
"Divorce Two" in the cards if he can't get his wife to change her views.
Some of you guys must have had this problem--how did you deal with it?
Did you get her to accept your flying & still have peace in the family? If
so, how did you do it?
Richard Scott
RV-9A
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
I didn't have this problem, but I truly believe fear of flying is all about
a lack of knowledge regarding flying. If she would be open to learning from
someone else, openly as to why airplanes fly, maybe she would warm up to
some pitch hitter flying courses. I am sure it isn't that easy, but gotta
start somewhere.
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Richard Scott
Date: 03/18/06 15:52:22
Subject: RV-List: Spouse afraid to fly
I was showing a newbie my project when he mentioned that his wife didn't
like to fly, didn't want him flying and was totally against him building a
plane, but he was going to do it anyway.
There used to be an RV around the area named "Divorce One" and I see a
"Divorce Two" in the cards if he can't get his wife to change her views.
Some of you guys must have had this problem--how did you deal with it?
Did you get her to accept your flying & still have peace in the family? If
so, how did you do it?
Richard Scott
RV-9A
Wings
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tommy Walker" <twsurveyor(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | Landoll Balancer Ring |
Anyone got a web link for Landoll?
Tommy
6A, Ridgetop, TN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cory Emberson <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
>>Divorce Two<<
That's not good. I don't have so much an answer as a couple of
questions. As a former non-flying wife (I'm a flying non-wife now, but
that's a different story ), my resistance was from fear of what I
didn't know about flying (which was a lot). I grew up in an airline
family, but a Cherokee was a lot different, to me, than a DC-10. Before
I made the decision to learn to fly, I watched AOPA's Pinch Hitter tape
quite a few times.
Or, it could be fear of economic ruin due to his interest in flying, or
perhaps, fear of her not being #1 in his eyes. She may not know that her
husband can love flying and her at the same time.
Once I polled a few friends (a female thing) and figured out that if all
these other people could do it, I could too (and didn't need to know
calculus to fly), the belief I had changed from "I can't" to "I can."
She may be terrified of losing him in an accident, particularly in a
(forgive me) "homemade" plane. Some people are unable to put words to
these fears because they're further afraid of not seeming to be the
person they want to present to their spouse.
Or, it could be symptomatic of other, more general, problems in their
relationship. The idea of respecting and supporting your spouse's
interests, even if you don't share them, is often lost on the
non-interested spouse. If it wasn't flying, it would be some other
interest that she didn't share. It takes a particular brand of emotional
generosity to be able to do that, and some people haven't gotten there yet.
So, there are a few questions from my female point of view... hope it
helps or points him in the right direction.
best, Cory
Richard Scott wrote:
>
>I was showing a newbie my project when he mentioned that his wife didn't
>like to fly, didn't want him flying and was totally against him building a
>plane, but he was going to do it anyway.
>
>There used to be an RV around the area named "Divorce One" and I see a
>"Divorce Two" in the cards if he can't get his wife to change her views.
>
>Some of you guys must have had this problem--how did you deal with it?
>
>Did you get her to accept your flying & still have peace in the family? If
>so, how did you do it?
>
>Richard Scott
>RV-9A
>Wings
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
If he can get her to take some flying lessons . . . that will usually solve
the problem!
On 3/18/06, Richard Scott wrote:
>
>
> I was showing a newbie my project when he mentioned that his wife didn't
> like to fly, didn't want him flying and was totally against him building a
> plane, but he was going to do it anyway.
>
> There used to be an RV around the area named "Divorce One" and I see a
> "Divorce Two" in the cards if he can't get his wife to change her views.
>
> Some of you guys must have had this problem--how did you deal with it?
>
> Did you get her to accept your flying & still have peace in the
> family? If
> so, how did you do it?
>
> Richard Scott
> RV-9A
> Wings
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | gary spellman <gspell727(at)yahoo.com> |
Bob,could you sign me up for news letter
I am building a rv-7,wiring firwall forward,
GRT dual screen.Have been lurking on groups for years
Always need more info
thanks Gary Spellman
gspell727(at)yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Oldsfolks(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Landoll Balancer Ring |
Landoll website > _landollskydoll2001(at)yahoo.com_
(mailto:landollskydoll2001(at)yahoo.com) <
Phone is 405-392-3847 < Ad in Sport Aviation" under" Propellers".
I use his dampener & aerobatic ring on our RV-4 and really like it with our
wood prop.
Bob Olds RV-4 , N1191X
A&P , EAA Tech. Counselor
Charleston,Arkansas
Real Aviators Fly Taildraggers
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Ross" <dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com> |
Guys: Anyone have a used Garmin 430 for sale? Dan
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Bundy" <ebundy(at)speedyquick.net> |
| Subject: | Spouse afraid to fly |
I started flying 20 years ago, just months after getting married. My wife
was reluctant at best, but was proud of my accomplishment in getting a
private license and acquiesced to fly with me occasionally. She got a
little enjoyment out of it, but her fear and apprehension were always in the
background.
Just for the heck of it, I suggested she attend a 99's flying companion
seminar. Best thing she could have done, and I recommend it highly. She
felt MUCH more at ease in the airplane now that she had an idea of
everything that was going on. It also whet her appetite to learn more about
it.
When it came time to build an RV (10 years ago) she wasn't against it, but
wasn't thrilled either. However, when we talked about the ability to get
away on 2-3 day vacations that were impossible by car (and impractical by
rental Cessna) or to see her family more often (16hrs by car, or 3.5hrs by
RV) she became a believer. We've been flying it for 8 years and the only
thing we fight about now is who's doing the flying.
My advise, get her to a 99 class, go slow, and show her the end result
(destinations that she will enjoy) and she might just end up enjoying the
process as well.
Ed Bundy
> Did you get her to accept your flying & still have peace in the
> family? If
> so, how did you do it?
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper) |
| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
Funny this thread should come up.
I was just on the phone yesterday with a college friend's wife in her
mid-50's who has refused to fly her entire life. She grew up in a
isolated coastal town of Eureka, California and has lived her entire
life there. Never had any reason to travel by plane so her fear matured
over the years.
Fast forward to this past January when cherished only child finishes
college and married a guy from Mississippi two months ago that she met
through the internet. Suitor's family owns a multi-generation family
business of which he is becoming a part . . . never to leave
Mississippi.
My friend's wife cannot maintain her close relationship with her only
child and hopefully upcoming grandchildren without flying back and forth
from California to Mississippi.
She bit the bullet and flew back for the wedding in January. She said
she had white knuckles throughout the takeoff (luckily the death grip
was on the seat, not my best friend from college's wrist), she had tears
streaming down her cheeks by the time the jet reached altitude, but she
says once the plane is cruising she didn't feel much anxiety at all.
She is quite happy to know she can get through a flight after all.
So . . . get your kids on the internet to marry someone far away.
Motherly survival instinct will take over her fear of flying!
Pete Cowper
RV8 #81139
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Service Bulletin 548: Lycoming Fuel Pump |
I have not seen any posts about this fuel pump replacement on this RV-list.
Am I the only "lucky" one who had to replace the pump? Lycoming told me it would
take 6 weeks to get the refund. I wonder if and how much they will pay for
the labor costs!
Anyhow, if you received a new Lycoming engine in 2000 or so, you may want to check
this out. Check this bulletin on Lycoming's web site. Yes, the FAA send
me this service bulletin last year and I am thankful for that.
Lothar from Denver, -6A, 600 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | RV8 canopy frame. |
Hello all,
I am in the process of trying to fit the canopy frame to my fuselage. As it
sits now, I have the C661 slide block installed and the frame into the C806
anchor block. When positioned fully forward, the frames front rollers roll
up onto the WD814 roll bar plates. Is this OK? When the rollers travel
onto the WD814 plate, it raises the canopy frame up a just a hair.
Waiting for your reply to move forward.
Paul Rice
RV8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 canopy frame. |
Paul,
Seems mine fit that way at first too. By the time you fit the canopy, cut
off the windshield, fit the skirts and lay up the windshield fairing, you
will find that it will not travel as far forward as it does now. Others my
have a different opinion but that's the mine worked out. I'd press on.
There's lots of latitude in the final fitting.
Steve Struyk
St. Charles MO
RV-8, 35 Hrs.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com>
Sent: Sunday, March 19, 2006 10:17 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV8 canopy frame.
>
> Hello all,
>
> I am in the process of trying to fit the canopy frame to my fuselage. As
> it
> sits now, I have the C661 slide block installed and the frame into the
> C806
> anchor block. When positioned fully forward, the frames front rollers roll
> up onto the WD814 roll bar plates. Is this OK? When the rollers travel
> onto the WD814 plate, it raises the canopy frame up a just a hair.
>
> Waiting for your reply to move forward.
>
> Paul Rice
> RV8
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trevor Mills" <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au> |
I would like to know how anybody has plumbed tip tanks to the mains. Any photo's
or even where and how would be a great help thanks.
Trevor. 80605
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CS prop slinging grease |
| From: | Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Guys,
I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
some grease....just enough to see a few fine streaks down the blade and
get drops of grease on my windshield, cowl, and wings. I believe
Hartzell says that if you let the prop sit in the box for over 18 months
the seals will dry out and need to be replaced because they'll leak. Of
course when I ordered my prop I knew I'd be flying in a year so this
wouldn't be a problem for me. Yeah right. It sat in the box for two
years before I first ran the engine...
I have a hard time believing I'm the only one like this so I'm wondering,
has anybody else experienced this problem? If so, did it ever go away?
I'm not concerned about it from a safety perspective--I can lube the hub
occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out in there--but it's a real
pain to clean up especially in the canopy. If anybody's replaced these
seals, can you remember how much it set you back and where you had the
work done?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours....love the flying, hate the cleanup
afterwards....
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Nosewheel bearing question |
| From: | Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com> |
Guys (those of you with a nosedragger),
I still don't have my wheel fairings on. This weekend during preflight I
noticed some black goo, tar-like stuff oozing out around the rubber
bearing seals on my nosewheel. It did not appear until I had about a
dozen landings on the airplane. Since the grease that was in it
originally was the normal amber color I was a bit surprised to see this
color, and also a bit surprised to see it leaking out as it had been
perfectly clean up until this point. Anybody else seen such a thing?
I also checked the rolling friction of the tire and it is still REALLY
stiff to turn by hand. I know that when a wheel is properly installed
there should be enough load on the bearing to provide friction....i.e. it
should not continue to spin around freely after you give it a whirl by
hand. But from the first time I installed the nosewheel--properly
torqued per the plans with a calibrated wrench--it seemed excessively
stiff to me. I remember the plans said that it would be this way until
it was broken in a bit. I don't know how long that should take but I
checked the nosewheel on my hangar mate's new -7A (with fewer hours than
I have) and his wheel turned much easier. I tried loosening the nut on
the axle bolt and that made it turn more freely but then I noticed that
the spacers were spinning too. I torqued it back up and now it's
ridiculously stiff again. My hangar mate's -7A has the wheel pant
installed so I can't see whether the spacers are spinning on his. I
called Vans and Gus said that it's quite common for people to call and
complain that the spacers have been spinning instead of the bearing and
galling up the fork assembly. He suggested that I could put some screws
in through the fork into the spacer to keep them from spinning. This
would allow me to reduce the pressure/friction on the bearings, but he
cautioned against reducing the torque on the axle bolt too much since
Matco calls out 7-10 ft lbs for this assembly.
Personally I think the whole design is a bit iffy from the perspective
that there's a very small margin between having enough pressure to keep
the spacers from turning without so much pressure the that rotational
friction on the bearings/seals is excessive. It makes me wonder how many
people are flying around out there with the wheel pants on, completely
unaware that the spacers are spinning away while the bearings are doing
nothing. On the other hand, if the rotational friction is excessive it
*may* have contributed to some of the bent nose gear incidents that have
occurred in recent years. It's pretty scary watching the nosegear at
high speed, even during a good landing....the more rotational friction,
the further the gear is going to bend back/under when it first makes
contact at high speed. I think I'll disassemble the whole thing, check
the bearings for overheating, repack them, put screws in through the
fork/spacer assembly, and tighten it up until it feels "about right".
Any comments/experience from others with this assembly would be
appreciated. FWIW, I understand that the -6A's had a different design
(which some local RVators consider to be superior to the current
design...).
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
Mark, I would asume the dark stuff is grease. as for the tightness/spacers
spinning, I noticed the spacers spinning problem (I didn build the 6a)When
I took off the wheel at cond insp. I ended up adding a washer on one side of
spacer which allowed me to tighten the axel bolt properly without binding
the wheel. Charlie heathco
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E Navratil" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 9:42 PM
Subject: RV-List: Nosewheel bearing question
Guys (those of you with a nosedragger),
I still don't have my wheel fairings on. This weekend during preflight I
noticed some black goo, tar-like stuff oozing out around the rubber
bearing seals on my nosewheel. It did not appear until I had about a
dozen landings on the airplane. Since the grease that was in it
originally was the normal amber color I was a bit surprised to see this
color, and also a bit surprised to see it leaking out as it had been
perfectly clean up until this point. Anybody else seen such a thing?
I also checked the rolling friction of the tire and it is still REALLY
stiff to turn by hand. I know that when a wheel is properly installed
there should be enough load on the bearing to provide friction....i.e. it
should not continue to spin around freely after you give it a whirl by
hand. But from the first time I installed the nosewheel--properly
torqued per the plans with a calibrated wrench--it seemed excessively
stiff to me. I remember the plans said that it would be this way until
it was broken in a bit. I don't know how long that should take but I
checked the nosewheel on my hangar mate's new -7A (with fewer hours than
I have) and his wheel turned much easier. I tried loosening the nut on
the axle bolt and that made it turn more freely but then I noticed that
the spacers were spinning too. I torqued it back up and now it's
ridiculously stiff again. My hangar mate's -7A has the wheel pant
installed so I can't see whether the spacers are spinning on his. I
called Vans and Gus said that it's quite common for people to call and
complain that the spacers have been spinning instead of the bearing and
galling up the fork assembly. He suggested that I could put some screws
in through the fork into the spacer to keep them from spinning. This
would allow me to reduce the pressure/friction on the bearings, but he
cautioned against reducing the torque on the axle bolt too much since
Matco calls out 7-10 ft lbs for this assembly.
Personally I think the whole design is a bit iffy from the perspective
that there's a very small margin between having enough pressure to keep
the spacers from turning without so much pressure the that rotational
friction on the bearings/seals is excessive. It makes me wonder how many
people are flying around out there with the wheel pants on, completely
unaware that the spacers are spinning away while the bearings are doing
nothing. On the other hand, if the rotational friction is excessive it
*may* have contributed to some of the bent nose gear incidents that have
occurred in recent years. It's pretty scary watching the nosegear at
high speed, even during a good landing....the more rotational friction,
the further the gear is going to bend back/under when it first makes
contact at high speed. I think I'll disassemble the whole thing, check
the bearings for overheating, repack them, put screws in through the
fork/spacer assembly, and tighten it up until it feels "about right".
Any comments/experience from others with this assembly would be
appreciated. FWIW, I understand that the -6A's had a different design
(which some local RVators consider to be superior to the current
design...).
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | CS prop slinging grease |
The shelf life is 2 years. A prop shop should charge around $500 for a
reseal job.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark E Navratil
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:12 PM
Subject: RV-List: CS prop slinging grease
Guys,
I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
some grease....just enough to see a few fine streaks down the blade and
get drops of grease on my windshield, cowl, and wings. I believe
Hartzell says that if you let the prop sit in the box for over 18 months
the seals will dry out and need to be replaced because they'll leak. Of
course when I ordered my prop I knew I'd be flying in a year so this
wouldn't be a problem for me. Yeah right. It sat in the box for two
years before I first ran the engine...
I have a hard time believing I'm the only one like this so I'm wondering,
has anybody else experienced this problem? If so, did it ever go away?
I'm not concerned about it from a safety perspective--I can lube the hub
occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out in there--but it's a real
pain to clean up especially in the canopy. If anybody's replaced these
seals, can you remember how much it set you back and where you had the
work done?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours....love the flying, hate the cleanup
afterwards....
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> |
| Subject: | Re: CS prop slinging grease |
Mike, My Hartzel sat in a box for 3 years and works fine. No leaks or
issues.
Tom
in Ohio (RV6-A...362CT)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark E Navratil" <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Sent: Monday, March 20, 2006 10:11 PM
Subject: RV-List: CS prop slinging grease
>
> Guys,
>
> I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
> some grease....just enough to see a few fine streaks down the blade and
> get drops of grease on my windshield, cowl, and wings. I believe
> Hartzell says that if you let the prop sit in the box for over 18 months
> the seals will dry out and need to be replaced because they'll leak. Of
> course when I ordered my prop I knew I'd be flying in a year so this
> wouldn't be a problem for me. Yeah right. It sat in the box for two
> years before I first ran the engine...
>
> I have a hard time believing I'm the only one like this so I'm wondering,
> has anybody else experienced this problem? If so, did it ever go away?
> I'm not concerned about it from a safety perspective--I can lube the hub
> occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out in there--but it's a real
> pain to clean up especially in the canopy. If anybody's replaced these
> seals, can you remember how much it set you back and where you had the
> work done?
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours....love the flying, hate the cleanup
> afterwards....
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | RGray67968(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: CS prop slinging grease |
Mark, I had this 'problem' as well with my Hartzell. My didn't have anything
to do with 'shelf life'. All I did was remove the spinner and retorque all
the hub bolts. A couple of the bolts had been removed to fit the spinner and
these were the culprits in my case. Once the bolts were retorqued the slinging
ceased for me.
Also, I'll mention that (in my case) the grease was building up inside of
the spinner before it worked it's way out of the prop root cutouts and was
able to fly back to the windsreen......make sure you check the inside of your
spinner real good and remove any grease that may be present before you replace
the spinner.
For the archives
Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - RV6 sold, RV8 completed, RV4
finished and painting, RV10 and F1 Rocket under construction
_http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/_
(http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/)
Guys,
I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
some grease....just enough to see a few fine streaks down the blade and
get drops of grease on my windshield, cowl, and wings. I believe
Hartzell says that if you let the prop sit in the box for over 18 months
the seals will dry out and need to be replaced because they'll leak. Of
course when I ordered my prop I knew I'd be flying in a year so this
wouldn't be a problem for me. Yeah right. It sat in the box for two
years before I first ran the engine...
I have a hard time believing I'm the only one like this so I'm wondering,
has anybody else experienced this problem? If so, did it ever go away?
I'm not concerned about it from a safety perspective--I can lube the hub
occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out in there--but it's a real
pain to clean up especially in the canopy. If anybody's replaced these
seals, can you remember how much it set you back and where you had the
work done?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
Cedar Rapids, Iowa
RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours....love the flying, hate the cleanup
afterwards
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
I had this same problem (spacers turning by the torque of the seals) when I
first flew my -7A. At first I was going to put in roll pins like a Cessna
150, but decided on a different solution which has worked very well.
I made a steel sleeve about 3/4 inch OD to put between the bearing spacers
on the axle bolt inside of the wheel. Once this sleeve was fine tuned to the
correct length, I could tighten the axle bolt to full torque without actually
having the bearings support the bolt tension. To support the sleeve while
taking the nose wheel on and off, I have a length of 3/8 inch rod that gets
pushed through when installing the axle bolt. This rod is a little shorter
than the distance between the forks.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A Flying 148 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
I've done the plumbing - not flying yet. Johansen tanks purchased from Vans -
plumbed in to the outboard bay of the main tank with a check valve.
Zap me offline and I'll send some photos....I recently sent out the same photos
to someone else.....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: Trevor Mills <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au>
>Sent: Mar 20, 2006 5:14 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Tip tanks
>
>
>I would like to know how anybody has plumbed tip tanks to the mains. Any photo's
or even where and how would be a great help thanks.
>
>Trevor. 80605
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | CS prop slinging grease |
Mark, good advice from Rick, I had the same experience. There was a pile of
grease inside the spinner, presumably from outside the seal, but within the
hub. This grease worked its way out of the prop during the first handful of
hours, but then slowly crept out of the spinner. My prop did, however, need
resealing around 500 hours/3 years. If you should need to reseal, there are
two shops in this general area. One is Maxwell at Crystal airport in
Minneapolis, and the other is Midwest Props in Kenosha, WI. Both of these
shops will tell you that there are two problems with Hartzell factory props
- one is that they use a non O-ring seal, some sort of non circular section
seal. These shops will use O-rings instead, as did Hartzell in the past.
The other problem is that the grease that is used by Hartzell is Aeroshell 6
for extremely cold operations, i.e., lower viscosity. They both recommend
using the higher viscosity grease Aeroshell 5 after reseal.
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 729 hours
Maple Grove, MN
>
>
> Mark, I had this 'problem' as well with my Hartzell. My
> didn't have anything to do with 'shelf life'. All I did was
> remove the spinner and retorque all the hub bolts. A couple
> of the bolts had been removed to fit the spinner and these
> were the culprits in my case. Once the bolts were retorqued
> the slinging ceased for me.
>
> Also, I'll mention that (in my case) the grease was building
> up inside of the spinner before it worked it's way out of
> the prop root cutouts and was able to fly back to the
> windsreen......make sure you check the inside of your spinner
> real good and remove any grease that may be present before
> you replace the spinner.
>
> For the archives
>
> Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - RV6 sold, RV8
> completed, RV4 finished and painting, RV10 and F1 Rocket
> under construction _http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/_
> (http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stephen J. Soule" <SSoule(at)pfclaw.com> |
| Subject: | Nosewheel bearing question |
Dan,
This sounds interesting. What did you use for the stock from which you made
the sleeve?
Steve Soule
Vermont
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel bearing question
I had this same problem (spacers turning by the torque of the seals) when I
first flew my -7A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Alex Peterson" <alexpeterson(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Nosewheel bearing question |
>
>
> Guys (those of you with a nosedragger),
>
SNIP
> Personally I think the whole design is a bit iffy from the
> perspective that there's a very small margin between having
> enough pressure to keep the spacers from turning without so
> much pressure the that rotational friction on the
> bearings/seals is excessive. It makes me wonder how many
> people are flying around out there with the wheel pants on,
> completely unaware that the spacers are spinning away while
> the bearings are doing nothing. On the other hand, if the
> rotational friction is excessive it
> *may* have contributed to some of the bent nose gear
> incidents that have occurred in recent years. It's pretty
> scary watching the nosegear at high speed, even during a good
> landing....the more rotational friction, the further the gear
> is going to bend back/under when it first makes contact at
> high speed. I think I'll disassemble the whole thing, check
> the bearings for overheating, repack them, put screws in
> through the fork/spacer assembly, and tighten it up until it
> feels "about right".
>
> Any comments/experience from others with this assembly would
> be appreciated. FWIW, I understand that the -6A's had a
> different design (which some local RVators consider to be
> superior to the current design...).
>
> Thanks,
>
> --Mark Navratil
> Cedar Rapids, Iowa
> RV-8A N2D flying 15.8 hours
Mark, am I correct in understanding that on the newer (non 6A) nosewheel
designs that the tapered roller bearings take the load from the axle bolt?
If so, this is a terrible design. The 6A has a stout, hollow aluminum tube
taking the load between the two larger hollow cylinders which directly touch
the fork. This is as Dan has described that he did on his 7A. On my 6A, I
could tighten the axle bolt until it breaks, and the wheel bearings will not
be affected.
Please tell me that the new design doesn't simply have the bolt mash the
bearings with nothing in between, although I heard this also from a local
builder. This simply isn't acceptable. Put a thrust tube in between, and
use some shim stock to tweak it in. Van makes the best product available,
but sometimes I feel they put more emphasis on hiring people with airplane
building experience and not engineering.
It is easy to imagine bad things happening when things in that assembly
deflect under load...
Alex Peterson
RV6-A N66AP 729 hours
Maple Grove, MN
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
Steve,
The spacer is made of mild steel rod. Aluminum would be OK, I think.
Actually, I had help. The idea should be credited to a local craftsman named
Carl
McCain. He first used the idea on an RV-9A. From another post I see that
the 6A used something similar, and that it is good engineering practice. Glad
to see I wasn't flamed right away!
Dan
RV-7A
N766DH
In a message dated 3/21/2006 8:05:02 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
SSoule(at)pfclaw.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Stephen J. Soule"
Dan,
This sounds interesting. What did you use for the stock from which you made
the sleeve?
Steve Soule
Vermont
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 7:44 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Nosewheel bearing question
I had this same problem (spacers turning by the torque of the seals) when I
first flew my -7A.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Larry Bowen <Larry(at)bowenaero.com> |
| Subject: | Re: CS prop slinging grease |
My H. prop was resealed under warrenty because the quad seal was twisted
during original assembly at the factory -- which resulted in a leak at
the root of the prop. I haven't heard of the o-ring and grease issues
mentioned below....interesting.
More here:
http://bowenaero.com/mt3/archives/2005/06/prop_seal.html
--
Larry Bowen
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
Alex Peterson wrote:
>
> Mark, good advice from Rick, I had the same experience. There was a pile of
> grease inside the spinner, presumably from outside the seal, but within the
> hub. This grease worked its way out of the prop during the first handful of
> hours, but then slowly crept out of the spinner. My prop did, however, need
> resealing around 500 hours/3 years. If you should need to reseal, there are
> two shops in this general area. One is Maxwell at Crystal airport in
> Minneapolis, and the other is Midwest Props in Kenosha, WI. Both of these
> shops will tell you that there are two problems with Hartzell factory props
> - one is that they use a non O-ring seal, some sort of non circular section
> seal. These shops will use O-rings instead, as did Hartzell in the past.
> The other problem is that the grease that is used by Hartzell is Aeroshell 6
> for extremely cold operations, i.e., lower viscosity. They both recommend
> using the higher viscosity grease Aeroshell 5 after reseal.
>
> Alex Peterson
> RV6-A N66AP 729 hours
> Maple Grove, MN
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>Mark, I had this 'problem' as well with my Hartzell. My
>>didn't have anything to do with 'shelf life'. All I did was
>>remove the spinner and retorque all the hub bolts. A couple
>>of the bolts had been removed to fit the spinner and these
>>were the culprits in my case. Once the bolts were retorqued
>>the slinging ceased for me.
>>
>>Also, I'll mention that (in my case) the grease was building
>>up inside of the spinner before it worked it's way out of
>>the prop root cutouts and was able to fly back to the
>>windsreen......make sure you check the inside of your spinner
>>real good and remove any grease that may be present before
>>you replace the spinner.
>>
>>For the archives
>>
>>Rick Gray in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - RV6 sold, RV8
>>completed, RV4 finished and painting, RV10 and F1 Rocket
>>under construction _http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/_
>>(http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | CS prop slinging grease |
After the residual grease stopped slinging within the first few hours on my RV-8,
CS Hartzell, I had about 140 hrs when it started slinging again. I took the
spinner off and could see the grease trail coming from the parting surface on
one side between two of the three bolts. I called Hartzell, told them when
I started flying it (still under the one year warranty from first flight) and
how many hours I had on it, and they paid for a reseal under warranty at Jordan
Propellor. I watched when Jordan took it apart, you could definitely see where
the white sealant between the parting surfaces was very thin at that area
where the leak was. No problems since reseal with 950 hours.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8 Flying
RV-3 Flying
-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: RV-List: CS prop slinging grease
From: Mark E Navratil <czechsix(at)juno.com>
Guys,
I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
some grease....just enough to see a few fine streaks down the blade and
get drops of grease on my windshield, cowl, and wings. I believe
Hartzell says that if you let the prop sit in the box for over 18 months
the seals will dry out and need to be replaced because they'll leak. Of
course when I ordered my prop I knew I'd be flying in a year so this
wouldn't be a problem for me. Yeah right. It sat in the box for two
years before I first ran the engine...
I have a hard time believing I'm the only one like this so I'm wondering,
has anybody else experienced this problem? If so, did it ever go away?
I'm not concerned about it from a safety perspective--I can lube the hub
occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out in there--but it's a real
pain to clean up especially in the canopy. If anybody's replaced these
seals, can you remember how much it set you back and where you had the
work done?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
After the residual grease stopped slinging within the first few hours on my RV-8,
CS Hartzell, I had about 140 hrs when it started slinging again. I took the
spinner off and could see the grease trail coming from the parting surface on
one side between two of the three bolts. I called Hartzell, told them when I
started flying it (still under the one year warranty from first flight) and how
many hours I had on it, and they paid for a reseal under warranty at Jordan
Propellor. I watched whenJordan took it apart, you could definitely see where
the white sealant between the parting surfaces was very thin at that area where
the leak was. No problems since reseal with 950 hours.
Stu McCurdy
RV-8 Flying
RV-3 Flying
-----------------------------------------------------
Subject: RV-List: CS prop slinging grease
From: Mark E Navratil czechsix(at)juno.com
-- RV-List message posted by: Mark E Navratil czechsix(at)juno.com
Guys,
I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
some grease....just enough to see a few fine streaks down the blade and
get drops of grease on my windshield, cowl, and wings. I believe
Hartzell says that if you let the prop sit in the box for over 18 months
the seals will dry out and need to be replaced b
ecause
they'll leak. Of
course when I ordered my prop I knew I'd be flying in a year so this
wouldn't be a problem for me. Yeah right. It sat in the box for two
years before I first ran the engine...
I have a hard time believing I'm the only one like this so I'm wondering,
has anybody else experienced this problem? If so, did it ever go away?
I'm not concerned about it from a safety perspective--I can lube the hub
occasionally and make sure it doesn't dry out in there--but it's a real
pain to clean up especially in the canopy. If anybody's replaced these
seals, can you remember how much it set you back and where you had the
work done?
Thanks,
--Mark Navratil
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
| From: | "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> |
Well, I do hate to have to ask another question on the heels of my last
one (un-fluting), but here goes.
Countersinking the rudder (9A) TE last night (R-916), it became apparent
after a couple holes that the holes are enlarged by the CS. There is no
way to CS to the correct depth without enlarging the holes. I've been
trained that countersinking should *never* cause the hole to enlarge -
if it does, the material is too thin - but this seems to be a special
case (piece sandwiched between two skins for double-flush riveting).
The instructions don't speak to the issue. Am I doing this correctly?
Paul
9A QB #1176
HS, VS done
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
Paul
It sounds like you may have the wedge slightly too far forward into the rudder
so that you have drilled very slightly too close to the thin edge. I didn't see
any significant enlargement when I did it although it is very marginal. Given
the double headed rivets it probably doesn't matter if the hole is slightly
enlarged although it is obviously important that the dimples in both skins sit
cleanly into the wedge. Do use the tank sealant to glue the edge before rivetting
and let it set properly with every hole clecoed onto a straight edge.
Best regards
Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:58:05 -0600
>
>
>
>
> Well, I do hate to have to ask another question on the heels of my last
> one (un-fluting), but here goes.
>
>
>
> Countersinking the rudder (9A) TE last night (R-916), it became apparent
> after a couple holes that the holes are enlarged by the CS. There is no
> way to CS to the correct depth without enlarging the holes. I've been
> trained that countersinking should *never* cause the hole to enlarge -
> if it does, the material is too thin - but this seems to be a special
> case (piece sandwiched between two skins for double-flush riveting).
> The instructions don't speak to the issue. Am I doing this correctly?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> 9A QB #1176
>
> HS, VS done
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
| From: | "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> |
Too far forward? No, the edge was prepunched #40 and then was
match-drilled. The holes are just where they're supposed to be.
Well, then, I'm entirely confused about this because, as I said, there
is NO WAY to countersink to the proper depth without enlarging the holes
some - and it's not a trivial amount, either. They are quite noticeably
larger - although the countersinks are done just right - the skin
dimples do fit perfectly.
Thanks for the response.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Mather
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:42 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
Paul
It sounds like you may have the wedge slightly too far forward into the
rudder so that you have drilled very slightly too close to the thin
edge. I didn't see any significant enlargement when I did it although it
is very marginal. Given the double headed rivets it probably doesn't
matter if the hole is slightly enlarged although it is obviously
important that the dimples in both skins sit cleanly into the wedge. Do
use the tank sealant to glue the edge before rivetting and let it set
properly with every hole clecoed onto a straight edge.
Best regards
Peter
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
> Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:58:05 -0600
>
>
>
>
> Well, I do hate to have to ask another question on the heels of my
last
> one (un-fluting), but here goes.
>
>
>
> Countersinking the rudder (9A) TE last night (R-916), it became
apparent
> after a couple holes that the holes are enlarged by the CS. There is
no
> way to CS to the correct depth without enlarging the holes. I've been
> trained that countersinking should *never* cause the hole to enlarge -
> if it does, the material is too thin - but this seems to be a special
> case (piece sandwiched between two skins for double-flush riveting).
> The instructions don't speak to the issue. Am I doing this correctly?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> 9A QB #1176
>
> HS, VS done
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
The wedge was pre-punched ? I'm assuming only the skins were
pre punched and you match drilled into the wedge. I think what
Paul is saying is that you need to re-position the wedge
further AFT relative to the skins, that way you will be
countersinking into the thicker section of the wedge. Which
may necessitate you replacing the wedge.
I had a a similar issue although perhaps not as pronounced. I
bonded my trailing edges with T-88 epoxy which made them a lot
stronger. Maybe post a picture ?
g
>
>
>
> Too far forward? No, the edge was prepunched #40 and then was
> match-drilled. The holes are just where they're supposed to be.
>
> Well, then, I'm entirely confused about this because, as I said, there
> is NO WAY to countersink to the proper depth without enlarging the holes
> some - and it's not a trivial amount, either. They are quite noticeably
> larger - although the countersinks are done just right - the skin
> dimples do fit perfectly.
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Mather
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:42 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
>
>
> Paul
>
> It sounds like you may have the wedge slightly too far forward into the
> rudder so that you have drilled very slightly too close to the thin
> edge. I didn't see any significant enlargement when I did it although it
> is very marginal. Given the double headed rivets it probably doesn't
> matter if the hole is slightly enlarged although it is obviously
> important that the dimples in both skins sit cleanly into the wedge. Do
> use the tank sealant to glue the edge before rivetting and let it set
> properly with every hole clecoed onto a straight edge.
>
> Best regards
>
> Peter
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
> > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:58:05 -0600
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, I do hate to have to ask another question on the heels of my
> last
> > one (un-fluting), but here goes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Countersinking the rudder (9A) TE last night (R-916), it became
> apparent
> > after a couple holes that the holes are enlarged by the CS. There is
> no
> > way to CS to the correct depth without enlarging the holes. I've been
> > trained that countersinking should *never* cause the hole to enlarge -
> > if it does, the material is too thin - but this seems to be a special
> > case (piece sandwiched between two skins for double-flush riveting).
> > The instructions don't speak to the issue. Am I doing this correctly?
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > 9A QB #1176
> >
> > HS, VS done
> >
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--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
Mark, Charlie, Alex & Dan-
I've got the same problem as Mark on my -6A. Having to leave the nut on the
axle bolt looser than spec just so the wheel turns has "worked" for almost 300
hours, but still makes me nervous- grateful for this discussion! When Mark
sent the original post, I dragged out dwg. 62 from my preview plans and it
shows the older style Cleveland wheel- there is a long aluminum "axle" (U-609)
that is trapped between the fork halves and allows the bolt to be properly
tightened, and thus no side-load on the bearings. My nosewheel sounds just like
Mark's, with the separate spool on each side. Does anyone have the actual
drawing (not preview) that shows the current (Matco) configuration and does it
show
a spacer between the two spools?
The way Dan fixed it almost sounds like a no-brainer and would explain a lot,
but I'm really wondering how many of us "sissies" are out there with a bogus
nosewheel arrangement because the design was changed and the prints were
either not updated or wrong? (spacer omitted?)
By the way, I just had to replace my nose tire due to wear (300 hours- does
this sound a bit soon?), which obviously is accelerated by the tire rotational
resistance. I've also been told I have occasional shimmy in my front gear
which is likely related as well. Carefully balancing the new wheel did seem to
help that problem considerably, though...
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
> Too far forward? No, the edge was prepunched #40 and then was
> match-drilled. The holes are just where they're supposed to be.
Was the AEX wedge drilled from the factory, or did you match drill it using
the holes in the skin? If the wedge itself came drilled from the factory,
then you're right...not much choice in the matter. If the wedge had no
holes in it when you started, then it's possible you located it too far
forward when you drilled it...which shifts the holes toward the thin end of
the wedge...but it's NOT a huge deal.
Take a look at the flap brace on the RV-7/8 and you'll see that it gets
countersunk between the dimpled wing skin and the untouched flap hinge.
Those c-sink'd holes end up huge. It's OK because that layer is sandwiched
between other layers.
Take a look at the left elevator rear spar, trim tab spar, etc. Same deal.
Stuff gets c-sunk and enlarged, and it's OK because it's sandwiched between
at least two other layers that don't have enlarged holes.
I may be mistaken, but I believe Van's mentions this scenario in the
construction manual. In any case, your rivet's manufactured & shop heads
are both bearing against un-enlarged material. My 2 cents is, rivet that
sucker and press on. If you have any doubts, call Van's Builder's
Assistance (503-678-6545, no wonder how I can just spout that from
*memory*!) and they'll probably tell you the same thing.
At least that's my 2 cents...hope it puts you at ease.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
Mark,
The shimmy problem is usually due to too free of swivel of the castoring
nose wheel. My gear leg had a problem that would lead to abnormal wear causing
this joint to become loose. The collar at the top was not square to the
bearing. I forget the exact arrangement right now, but I filed a long time
getting it to meet over the whole area. Part of the bend of the gear leg actually
went below the collar -- not a perfect situation! I have never had a shimmy
problem when the castor nut was tightened to spec. High tire pressure would
also aggravate shimmy. I run about 32 psi. This seems high but I have the
200 hp angle valve engine.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A Flying 149 hours
In a message dated 3/21/2006 11:34:10 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com writes:
=04????=1Bmip://02bb2b68/default.html ????=1Bmip://02bb2b68/default.html =0E=E4=84=80
Mark, Charlie, Alex & Dan-
I've got the same problem as Mark on my -6A. Having to leave the nut on the
axle bolt looser than spec just so the wheel turns has "worked" for almost
300
hours, but still makes me nervous- grateful for this discussion! When Mark
sent the original post, I dragged out dwg. 62 from my preview plans and it
shows the older style Cleveland wheel- there is a long aluminum "axle"
(U-609)
that is trapped between the fork halves and allows the bolt to be properly
tightened, and thus no side-load on the bearings. My nosewheel sounds just
like
Mark's, with the separate spool on each side. Does anyone have the actual
drawing (not preview) that shows the current (Matco) configuration and does
it show
a spacer between the two spools?
The way Dan fixed it almost sounds like a no-brainer and would explain a
lot,
but I'm really wondering how many of us "sissies" are out there with a bogus
nosewheel arrangement because the design was changed and the prints were
either not updated or wrong? (spacer omitted?)
By the way, I just had to replace my nose tire due to wear (300 hours- does
this sound a bit soon?), which obviously is accelerated by the tire
rotational
resistance. I've also been told I have occasional shimmy in my front gear
which is likely related as well. Carefully balancing the new wheel did seem
to
help that problem considerably, though...
Mark Phillips
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
| From: | "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> |
Yes, the wedge was indeed pre-punched.
I've only done 3 holes so, even if I've screwed-up this far (and now I
don't think that I have), it's not likely a loss. I have been told
enlargement of the holes is indeed inevitable here.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:26 AM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
The wedge was pre-punched ? I'm assuming only the skins were
pre punched and you match drilled into the wedge. I think what
Paul is saying is that you need to re-position the wedge
further AFT relative to the skins, that way you will be
countersinking into the thicker section of the wedge. Which
may necessitate you replacing the wedge.
I had a a similar issue although perhaps not as pronounced. I
bonded my trailing edges with T-88 epoxy which made them a lot
stronger. Maybe post a picture ?
g
>
>
>
> Too far forward? No, the edge was prepunched #40 and then was
> match-drilled. The holes are just where they're supposed to be.
>
> Well, then, I'm entirely confused about this because, as I said, there
> is NO WAY to countersink to the proper depth without enlarging the
holes
> some - and it's not a trivial amount, either. They are quite
noticeably
> larger - although the countersinks are done just right - the skin
> dimples do fit perfectly.
>
> Thanks for the response.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Mather
> Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 9:42 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
>
>
> Paul
>
> It sounds like you may have the wedge slightly too far forward into
the
> rudder so that you have drilled very slightly too close to the thin
> edge. I didn't see any significant enlargement when I did it although
it
> is very marginal. Given the double headed rivets it probably doesn't
> matter if the hole is slightly enlarged although it is obviously
> important that the dimples in both skins sit cleanly into the wedge.
Do
> use the tank sealant to glue the edge before rivetting and let it set
> properly with every hole clecoed onto a straight edge.
>
> Best regards
>
> Peter
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com>
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
> > Date: Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:58:05 -0600
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Well, I do hate to have to ask another question on the heels of my
> last
> > one (un-fluting), but here goes.
> >
> >
> >
> > Countersinking the rudder (9A) TE last night (R-916), it became
> apparent
> > after a couple holes that the holes are enlarged by the CS. There
is
> no
> > way to CS to the correct depth without enlarging the holes. I've
been
> > trained that countersinking should *never* cause the hole to enlarge
-
> > if it does, the material is too thin - but this seems to be a
special
> > case (piece sandwiched between two skins for double-flush riveting).
> > The instructions don't speak to the issue. Am I doing this
correctly?
> >
> >
> >
> > Paul
> >
> > 9A QB #1176
> >
> > HS, VS done
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> |
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
On 8:55:33 2006-03-21 "Folbrecht, Paul"
wrote:
> I've only done 3 holes so, even if I've screwed-up this far (and now I
> don't think that I have), it's not likely a loss. I have been told
> enlargement of the holes is indeed inevitable here.
Another option is to flush rivet one side and leave the other side
square-headed. It's less pretty, but it's going to be a lot stronger. If
you're countersinking both sides of that wedge and finding that the
countersinks are meeting each other, you'll have a knife-edge around the
hole, which isn't condusive to long rivet life.
On the Elevator, at least, you could put the square heads on the underside.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
| From: | "Folbrecht, Paul" <PFolbrecht(at)starkinvestments.com> |
Thanks, Dan. These were mostly my thoughts as well (both rivet heads
are secure and the TE is just squeezed in) but I thought I should ask.
(Having finally ruined my first part recently (and a skin at that), I
think I may be "erring" hard on the side of caution lately.)
This section of the instructions doesn't speak to this issue, and, I
just reviewed section 5 as well, on countersinking, and didn't see it
addressed there either. Perhaps it is in there somewhere. Or maybe
this is something that's assumed to be obvious. :-}
Paul
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway
Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking
> Too far forward? No, the edge was prepunched #40 and then was
> match-drilled. The holes are just where they're supposed to be.
Was the AEX wedge drilled from the factory, or did you match drill it
using
the holes in the skin? If the wedge itself came drilled from the
factory,
then you're right...not much choice in the matter. If the wedge had no
holes in it when you started, then it's possible you located it too far
forward when you drilled it...which shifts the holes toward the thin end
of
the wedge...but it's NOT a huge deal.
Take a look at the flap brace on the RV-7/8 and you'll see that it gets
countersunk between the dimpled wing skin and the untouched flap hinge.
Those c-sink'd holes end up huge. It's OK because that layer is
sandwiched
between other layers.
Take a look at the left elevator rear spar, trim tab spar, etc. Same
deal.
Stuff gets c-sunk and enlarged, and it's OK because it's sandwiched
between
at least two other layers that don't have enlarged holes.
I may be mistaken, but I believe Van's mentions this scenario in the
construction manual. In any case, your rivet's manufactured & shop
heads
are both bearing against un-enlarged material. My 2 cents is, rivet
that
sucker and press on. If you have any doubts, call Van's Builder's
Assistance (503-678-6545, no wonder how I can just spout that from
*memory*!) and they'll probably tell you the same thing.
At least that's my 2 cents...hope it puts you at ease.
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D
http://www.rvproject.com
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
>By the way, I just had to replace my nose tire due to wear (300 hours- does
>this sound a bit soon?), which obviously is accelerated by the tire
>rotational
>resistance. I've also been told I have occasional shimmy in my front gear
>which is likely related as well. Carefully balancing the new wheel did
>seem to
>help that problem considerably, though...
I thought I had a nose wheel shimmy problem and tried many things to fix it.
It was not until I had someone videotape me taxiing that it led to the real
problem being an unbalanced nosewheel/tire assembly.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Fiveonepw(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
In a message dated 3/21/06 10:53:19 AM Central Standard Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> The shimmy problem is usually due to too free of swivel of the castoring
> nose wheel.
>>>
After watching a guy in another -6A land at a gas stop a couple of years ago
with his nosewheel slamming furiously from stop to stop (he didn't even
realize it was happening!!) I'm pretty meticulous about the tension- it's been
checked several times with the fish scale and by "feel" anytime the nose it up
and
has only been adjusted once since new. I WILL check squareness at top busing
as you suggest, but balancing the new tire seems to have helped the most-
also, I have no stiffeners on the leg, FWIW...
Thanks, Dan-
Mark
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | RV-4 Heat Retrofit |
My RV-4 doesn't have heat. I'd like to add heat to
it, and was wondering which selector box from Van's
works the best on a -4 for fitting, placement, etc.
I'd also entertain putting a duct to the back seat,
but understand it might be difficult on a completed
airplane.
Thanks in advance.
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Third Annual RV FlyIn Cookout on Saturday, March 25th |
| From: | "Ken Harrill" <kharrill(at)osa.state.sc.us> |
The Palmetto Wing of Van's Air Force
Invites any and all RV pilots/flyers/builders and EAA members
To the Third Annual
PALMETTO RV FLYIN COOKOUT
Saturday, March 25 - 11:00 AM
Rain date March 26 - 1:30 PM
Columbia Downtown Owens Field Airport - Columbia, SC
For details see:
[url]http://www.eaa242.org/News/The%20Third%20Palmetto%20RVFlyIn-Cookout.mht
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23189#23189
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael Robbins" <robbinsrv8(at)msn.com> |
| Subject: | CS prop slinging grease |
>Subject: RE: RV-List: CS prop slinging grease
>
>
>I have 15.8 hours now on my RV and my new Hartzell is still slinging out
>some grease....>
>
>--Mark Navratil
Mark
I've had that problem since day one - that day being four years and 590
hours ago. However my situation may be a little different. On my first
flight, just seconds after liftoff, grease (at the time I thought it was
oil) began covering my windscreen. I made a quick trip around a shortened
pattern and landed it by looking out the side as the grease had obsured my
forward vision.
Found out that Hartzell had left out the ball in one of the grease fittings.
Got a new fitting and serviced the prop, but ever since then I get streaks
on the windscreen. I may have overserviced it. I skipped one service
interval and put less in now, and it seems to be getting better, but still
just a little grease after each flight. It's not enough to make me change
the seals.
Mike Robbins
RV-8 N88MJ
Paine Field, Washington
do not archiive
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Hopperdhh(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
Sherman,
Are you going to alternate the direction of the rivets? That seems like a
good method. In fact mine would look awful if I hadn't done that because I
didn't use any adhesive. That was a mistake. As it is, I have a slight "sine
wave" if you look closely at the rudder. It isn't that bad but it could be
better. If I hadn't alternated the rivets it would be curled about 4 inches!
I set the rivets with a squeezer as far as possible, then finished with the
gun -- a flush set against my back riveting plate. It seems to me like a
squeezer with dies ground to that angle would tend to bend the rivets.
Good luck,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A Flying since July '04 -- 145 wonderful hours
In a message dated 3/21/2006 2:59:40 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: Sherman Butler
My holes were enlarged, but it looked like the skins nearly meet and fill
the void. I glued mine Saturday and plan on squeezing the rivets with a hand
squeezer with a set ground to a matching angle. (Someone on the list mentioned
he did his that way, and it worked well.)
"Folbrecht, Paul" wrote: --> RV-List
message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul"
Well, what I'm running into, everybody should be running into.
I'd like to hear from other builders who have done the rudder recently
(or just remember it well). Did you notice the TE holes significantly
enlarged by the countersinking?
Do not archive
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | jetblue aftermath |
not rv related, but pretty interesting
Amazing photographs here?Even more amazing is that the front
wheel strut assembly actually held up under such landing conditions.
Cheers!
File: ATT1466905.gif (201Kbytes)
File: ATT1466906.gif (535Kbytes)
File: ATT1466907.gif (554Kbytes)
File: ATT1466908.gif (500Kbytes)
File: ATT1466909.gif (185Kbytes)
File: ATT1466910.gif (332Kbytes)
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net> |
| Subject: | ANR's and deafness |
My son, who flies helicopters for the Coast Guard, called me last night and told
me that they "immediately" told
them they would not be allowed to use ANR headsets. Said that a study has been
done and ANR's have been
shown to cause irreversible hearing damage. I have not heard anything about this
at all.
He was concerned enough about it to tell me to stop using my Lightspeeds. I
find this hard to believe,
but he was adament. Anybody else hear anything?
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kysh <vans-dragon(at)lapdragon.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
As Richard Scott was saying:
>
> There used to be an RV around the area named "Divorce One" and I see a
> "Divorce Two" in the cards if he can't get his wife to change her views.
>
> Some of you guys must have had this problem--how did you deal with it?
You know, I think the owner of "Divorce One" had the right idea. :>
-Kysh
--
ST1300 - Areion - > 3k mi -- STOC #5943
CBR-F4 - Foxy - > 56k mi
~~ To fly is to truly live
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org> |
| Subject: | Re: ANR's and deafness |
>
> My son, who flies helicopters for the Coast Guard, called me last night and
> told me that they "immediately" told them they would not be allowed to use
> ANR headsets.
Dave:
This information is over a decade out of date, so take that into consideration.
However, when the Canadian air force evaluated ANR headsets in the early 90s
they found that the systems available, which were designed for fixed-wing
aircraft, were not suitable for helicopter crews due to the very different
frequency distribution of helicopter noise. It's possible that the information
your son was given is valid for turbine-powered choppers but not for
piston-powered airplanes.
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
You might the RV-9 List archives also. This issue comes up from time to
time. The RV-9 wedge comes prepunched and countersinking will enlarge the
holes. I match drilled the wedge holes into a piece on 1/8" al strip that I
bought at Ace Hardware. I put clecos in about ever 10th or 12th hole to keep
it in place and the strip provided a hole for the countersink pilot. Flip
the wedge and do the other side then clamp the wedge, pull the clecos and
csk the remaining holes. On the other side of those holes you can csk by
hand. You will have the same problem on the main spar for the tank attach
screw nutplates but you can just use a short piece attached with clecos thru
the #40 nutplate attach holes and the strip will provide a pilot hole.
Albert Gardner
RV-9A N872RV
RV-10 30%
Yuma, AZ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (Bob Collins) |
| Subject: | Re: ANR's and deafness |
http://www.caohc.org/updatearticles/fall03.pdf
Good enough for me.
bob
St. Paul
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net>
>
> My son, who flies helicopters for the Coast Guard, called me last night and told
> me that they "immediately" told
> them they would not be allowed to use ANR headsets. Said that a study has been
> done and ANR's have been
> shown to cause irreversible hearing damage. I have not heard anything about
> this at all.
> He was concerned enough about it to tell me to stop using my Lightspeeds.
I
> find this hard to believe,
> but he was adament. Anybody else hear anything?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Blake <jblake43(at)bellsouth.net> |
>
>> I have several items for trade or sale. I will be at Lakeland on Thursday or
Friday and will bring any of the items if you have interest. Please contact
me at jblake43(at)bellsouth.net or 954-658-3035. Jim Blake
>>
1- engine mount with gear legs for RV-6 , new. $500.00
1- Cato 68 x 73 prop with spinner, backplate and bolts , used, from
RV-6 150hp. $450.00
1- Stebra 68 x 72 prop with spinner, backplate and bolts, used, from
RV-6 150hp. $350.00
2- 4" prop spacers, spool type, for above props. $100.00 and $75.00
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
I just completed the fuel tank SB on my left tank, using a gasket & tite seal.
That was a day and half ago and the stuff is still wet. I assume it should dry
before refueling the tank? How long to dry?
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
Walt,
I am including below what I wrote earlier (March 12) about this subject.
I filled my tanks as soon as I re-installed them on the wings.
Richard Dudley
==========================================================================
The Titeseal consistency does not seem to change markedly with time. I
don't believe that there is any sort of "cure". It is a viscous
"honey-like" consistency. When removing the plates after four years, the
gaskets easily separated from the tank and plate surfaces. I refilled
both tanks within an hour of re-mounting the inspection plates. I
checked the area of the seal as I filled the tanks and two days after
with no sign of leakage. After two days without leaks, I re mounted the
wing fairings.
I used new cork gaskets. The old gaskets that I removed were permeated
with the Titeseal. I believe that the gaskets serve a purpose to hold
the Titeseal, allow it to extrude around the screws and that the
saturated cork provides a seal conforming with the two mating surfaces
and is a mechanically strong barrier to leakage.
I, too, would recommend to new builders to paint the tanks separate from
the wings, or at least avoid painting the screws. That avoids the
anxiety of unscrewing painted screws. I was able to remove the tanks,
clean the Titeseal residue, conduct the SB on the pickup tube nut,
replace the inspection plate, replace the tank with all its screws in
about 3-4 hours per tank. A second pair of hands is helpful to navigate
the tank clear of the tubing and avoid scratching the wing.
Regards,
Richard Dudley
rveighta wrote:
>
>I just completed the fuel tank SB on my left tank, using a gasket & tite seal.
>That was a day and half ago and the stuff is still wet. I assume it should dry
>before refueling the tank? How long to dry?
>
>Walt Shipley
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "SteinAir, Inc." <stein(at)steinair.com> |
TiteSeal never really "dries" out in the technical sense...at least not like
proseal or silicone. That's it's beauty!
Cheers,
Stein.
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of rveighta
>Sent: Tuesday, March 21, 2006 6:50 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Tite Seal
>
>
>I just completed the fuel tank SB on my left tank, using a gasket
>& tite seal.
>That was a day and half ago and the stuff is still wet. I assume
>it should dry
>before refueling the tank? How long to dry?
>
>Walt Shipley
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
Hi Paul
Just a thought, - are you using a 100 degree aviation countersink and
not 82 degree hardware store type??
George in Langley BC
Folbrecht, Paul wrote:
>
>Too far forward? No, the edge was prepunched #40 and then was
>match-drilled. The holes are just where they're supposed to be.
>
>Well, then, I'm entirely confused about this because, as I said, there
>is NO WAY to countersink to the proper depth without enlarging the holes
>some - and it's not a trivial amount, either. They are quite noticeably
>larger - although the countersinks are done just right - the skin
>dimples do fit perfectly.
>
>Thanks for the response.
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Jim Cimino" <jcimino(at)echoes.net> |
It is with a great regret that I will putting my 2001 RV-8 up for sale. Pictures
can be seen at my website and you can e-mail me directly if you have any questions.
TTAF 200 hrs
TTSMO 300 hrs (Mattituck)
Engine IO-360 (180 HP) with fuel injection moved to face forward
Hartzell C/S Prop
Full Avionics
Garmin GNS-250XL
Garmin 327 Transponder
PS Stereo Intercom
VM 1000
EI Fuel Gauge
AI CD Player
This is one of the smoothest running RV's you will find and has won People's Choice
Awards at its two visits to the RV Forum along with Grand Champion and Best
Homebuilt at other Fly-Ins. Has the best of everything that was available in
2001.
I will be asking $110,000.
As I mentioned, please feel free to contact me off-list with questions. This is
a very sad day for me.
Thanks,
Jim
Jim Cimino
N7TL
RV-8 S/N 80039
150+ Hours
http://www.geocities.com/jcimino.geo/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jim Carlton <jcarlton3(at)cox.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
On Tuesday 21 March 2006 03:19 pm, Folbrecht, Paul wrote:
>
>
> My holes were enlarged, but it looked like the skins nearly meet and
> fill the void. I glued mine Saturday and plan on squeezing the rivets
> with a hand squeezer with a set ground to a matching angle. (Someone on
> the list mentioned he did his that way, and it worked well.)
>
> "Folbrecht, Paul" wrote: --> RV-List
> message posted by: "Folbrecht, Paul"
>
>
> Well, what I'm running into, everybody should be running into.
>
> I'd like to hear from other builders who have done the rudder recently
> (or just remember it well). Did you notice the TE holes significantly
> enlarged by the countersinking?
>
I wish I had a picture of the wedge, but I chucked the microcage to the
drillpress, made a jig out of a couple of blocks of wood and fed the
predrilled wedge thru, keeping the work perpendicular to the bit. I didn't
notice much enlarging of the holes, but maybe I set the microstop too
shallow? Dunno, but I clecoed everything up and the dimpled skin set in fine.
I was so pleased with the fit I decided to try using epoxy instead of proseal
.
After mixing up a batch of West Systems with a slow hardener and making a
slurry with Cabosil to a thick consistency, I used a small brush and painted
it on to the skins at the trailing edge. I layed the skin onto the bench with
the wedge clecoed to the trailing edges and followed the steps spelled out in
the plans. Yes, I did this by myself where the directions call for an assist
to fold the skins over while you reach in to rivet the clips to the ribs or
stringers. I used a "sky hook" to hold the top skin overhead while I slowly
lowered it into place and proceeded with the blind rivets. Yep, it was a
handful, but kinda fun and I didn't get too much epoxy all over!
After I finished up the riveting, I clecoed the whole trailing edge, very
little oozed out needing cleanup, and weighted the rudder down to let it dry
overnight. Next morning it was rock solid, clecoes easily popped out and I
cleaned up the holes.
I back riveted the whole length against a length of 1 1/4 angle iron clamped
to the edge of the workbench. Except for my overzealous gun work, (really
dislike those little smilies!) in a spot or two, it came out really great. I
may spot fill the shop heads and lay a layer of glass over the edge and
really clean it up smooth. Anybody think I should worry about smoking rivets
working through?
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | RV Elevator Counterweight question |
| From: | David Karlsberg <claypride(at)hotmail.com> |
So, I am working on the Right elevator. After carefully studying the
pictures I trimmed the counterweight as shown on the plans (E-714 Trim
Detail). The part remaining is 5/8th (like the picture shows). After
reading it again I think I was supposed to do this when balancing it. Is it
okay I did it now? Or will my weight be too light? If so, do I need to buy
a new weight or can I do something to fix this? I don't think I will just
be able to slide a new weight in there cause the skin that goes over it fits
real tight and when it will be dimpled it might be really hard to slide this
one out.
Let me know.
Thanks,
David Karlsberg
RV-7
Beverly hills CA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Trevor Mills" <millstrj(at)ozemail.com.au> |
Well for me the answer is simple, I work for large oil company with great staff
discounts. With the Eggenfellener engine on mogas it will make very much worth
my while.
Trevor. 80605
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rv6(at)grandecom.net |
| Subject: | Re: Nosewheel bearing question |
Quoting Hopperdhh(at)aol.com:
This is exactly what we have done on all the RV's we have built and it seems to
work very well.
Ted
>
> I had this same problem (spacers turning by the torque of the seals) when I
> first flew my -7A. At first I was going to put in roll pins like a Cessna
> 150, but decided on a different solution which has worked very well.
>
> I made a steel sleeve about 3/4 inch OD to put between the bearing spacers
> on the axle bolt inside of the wheel. Once this sleeve was fine tuned to
> the
> correct length, I could tighten the axle bolt to full torque without
> actually
> having the bearings support the bolt tension. To support the sleeve while
> taking the nose wheel on and off, I have a length of 3/8 inch rod that gets
> pushed through when installing the axle bolt. This rod is a little shorter
> than the distance between the forks.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A Flying 148 hours
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: ANR's and deafness |
| From: | "N395V" <N395V(at)direcway.com> |
davemader(at)bresnan.net wrote:
> My son, who flies helicopters for the Coast Guard, called me last night and told
me that they "immediately" told
> them they would not be allowed to use ANR headsets. Said that a study has been
done and ANR's have been
> shown to cause irreversible hearing damage.
This is an almost verbatim quote as it appeared on the Cessna Pilot's association
website a year ago??????????????????????????
Must be some brand new safety officer at a new duty station dusting off some old
info
--------
Milt
N395V
F1 Rocket
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23376#23376
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
rveighta(at)earthlink.net wrote:
> I just completed the fuel tank SB on my left tank, using a gasket & tite seal.
> That was a day and half ago and the stuff is still wet. I assume it should dry
> before refueling the tank? How long to dry?
>
> Walt Shipley
Walt,
You'll be waiting a long time. The (medium weight) Tite-Seal I applied to the
fuel tanks several years ago is as "sticky" as the day I applied it. You were
good to go a day and a half ago.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 116 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23391#23391
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net> |
| Subject: | Air Venture Cup Race |
Here is a communication from Eric Whyte, chairman of the race, through
Bob Axsom. Lets all rack our brains and see if we can help make this
race happen. I would think that lots of our suppliers could benefit from
this kind of exposure!
John Huft
**********************************************************
Copied below is a slightly edited version of the latest information
received direct from Race Director Eric Whyte (the excellent website is
still saying the entry forms will be available before the new year 2006
- http://www.airventurecup.com ).
Bob Axsom
*******************************************************************
Hi Guys,
Sorry it has taken so long to get back to you, I was in the USVI and the
internet connection was really slow so it was kind of a read only
situation for a week. Not a bad place to be stuck on a 6 day layover though!
So here is the deal, we need to find our own sponsors. We need any and
all leads you guys can come up with. The good news is that EAA is giving
us our own separate checking account so all money we raise goes directly
to the race. No ... Tax as in the past. Also if we should raise enough
to have money left over at the end of the year all the better it goes
into the kitty for the 2007 race. So once we raise money for the event
it stays until we use it up or stop having the race.
We are obviously looking for a large sponsor if there is interest but we
are also looking for many small level sponsors. There are very few
companies that are willing to spend $15,000 to sponsor an Air Race but
we are hoping it would be easier to find ten companies that are willing
to donate $1,000 to $5,000.
The other part of the bad news is that EAA is charging us full face
value for the wristbands so that is something we will need to look at. I
dont necessarily agree with but that decision was made above my level
as they say.
The good news is we have one sponsor already on board that has committed
to the lunch and breakfast in Dayton. Yes those are not the most
critical of items we are looking for but they were offered and I am not
going to look a gift horse in the mouth. ( The Sponsor is Commander Aero
the FBO that hosts us) EAA is staying on to provide the insurance
coverage and some publicity. We have control over the website and they
have agreed to run a blurb about the website in Sport Aviation and also
on the e-hotline.
I have been really bogged down with work recently I was on the road 22
of 28 days in February, so I have not been able to get the race staff
together yet. I dont see that changing anytime soon. I just got
summoned for jury duty and crew scheduling blew a gasket and is
frantically trying to get me out of it because apparently they cant
live with out me for two days. It is nice to feel appreciated I think!
In the e-mails you guys sent me several of you mentioned possible leads
for sponsors, I speak for the entire race staff in saying we need all
the help we can get. Since I am on the road nearly continuously at this
point e-mail is the best way to contact me. I will keep you all posted.
Eric
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | cs prop grease leak |
| From: | "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu> |
Cc:
Mark,
Mine slung grease for a few hours then stopped. Then it started back up
again at 20 hours. I called Hartzell and they were awesome to work
with. I flew to Piqua, OH had the prop fixed and also dynamically
balanced on the plane. They fixed it all PDQ while I was using their
courtesy car to tour the USAF museum in Dayton. They also gave me a
tour of their factory.
Overall, it was more like a mini vacation than a trip to a repair shop.
I highly recommend them.
BTW, their prices were VERY reasonable.... the repair was covered under
warranty and the balancing, which made a VERY noticable difference, was
something like $150 or so. Very cheap in my book. And all the work was
done by THE experts.
Vince Frazier
F-1H Rocket, N540VF
http://vincesrocket.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Don/Marcia Piermattei" <dlpier(at)lamar.colostate.edu> |
Can anyone provide a source for titeseal? I can't find it at ACS, Wicks, or
Chief. They have EZ turn and call it a substitute for titeseal.
Don Piermattei
RV-9A N192DP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "ron burden" <crb(at)commspeed.net> |
Hi Listers,
I am trying to locate a source for the Camloc KM680-64 latch. This is the
same as the KM610-64 latch discussed previously on this forum except it is
made of stainless. Any help would be appreciated.
Cheers,
Ron
crb(at)commspeed.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ken Howell" <cfi1513840(at)comcast.net> |
Don,
Here's a link that will get you some titeseal.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/titeseal.php
Ken Howell
Glenwood MD
RV-7 Wings
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don/Marcia
Piermattei
Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:06 AM
Subject: RV-List: titeseal
Can anyone provide a source for titeseal? I can't find it at ACS, Wicks, or
Chief. They have EZ turn and call it a substitute for titeseal.
Don Piermattei
RV-9A N192DP
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jerry2DT(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Heat Retrofit |
Paul,
I had difficulty adapting Van's heat muff to mine because the inlet/outlets
were clocked wrong. This company makes muffs any configuration/dimension you
want, and nice quality work, good prices. _http://aircraftexhaust.net/_
(http://aircraftexhaust.net/)
Jerry Cochran
Wilsonville, OR
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Heat Retrofit
My RV-4 doesn't have heat. I'd like to add heat to
it, and was wondering which selector box from Van's
works the best on a -4 for fitting, placement, etc.
I'd also entertain putting a duct to the back seat,
but understand it might be difficult on a completed
airplane.
Thanks in advance.
Paul Besing
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Steve Sampson" <ssamps(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV-4 Heat Retrofit |
You mght want to look at http://robbinswings.com/ also. Steve ##4478
On 22/03/06, Jerry2DT(at)aol.com wrote:
>
>
> Paul,
>
> I had difficulty adapting Van's heat muff to mine because the
> inlet/outlets
> were clocked wrong. This company makes muffs any configuration/dimension
> you
> want, and nice quality work, good prices. _http://aircraftexhaust.net/_
> (http://aircraftexhaust.net/)
>
> Jerry Cochran
> Wilsonville, OR
>
>
> From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
> Subject: RV-List: RV-4 Heat Retrofit
>
>
> My RV-4 doesn't have heat. I'd like to add heat to
> it, and was wondering which selector box from Van's
> works the best on a -4 for fitting, placement, etc.
>
> I'd also entertain putting a duct to the back seat,
> but understand it might be difficult on a completed
> airplane.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> Paul Besing
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
On 22 Mar 2006, at 16:51, Chuck wrote:
>
> This brings up a recent conversation on the requirement of even
> putting on Counterweights for the elevators.
>
> Any comments on the purpose(s), usefulness, or results of not
> utilizing counterweights ? Inquiring minds want to know.
>
The counterweights are there to increase the minimum airspeed to get
elevator flutter. If you don't put in the counterweights, or if the
elevator is not balanced as per Van's instructions, it is quite
possible that there will be destructive elevator/HS flutter at a
speed lower than the recommended VNE. Flutter, if it occurs, could
cause the HS and elevator to fail very quickly, causing a fatal
accident.
Put the counterweights in as per Van's design. This is not an area
to experiment.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
| From: | Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> |
Also leave them too heavy until you do the final trim prior to
first flight - you will be adding extra weight to the elevator
when you install the trim hardware, fiberglass tips and even
paint.
g
>
>
> On 22 Mar 2006, at 16:51, Chuck wrote:
>
> >
> > This brings up a recent conversation on the requirement of even
> > putting on Counterweights for the elevators.
> >
> > Any comments on the purpose(s), usefulness, or results of not
> > utilizing counterweights ? Inquiring minds want to know.
> >
>
> The counterweights are there to increase the minimum airspeed to get
> elevator flutter. If you don't put in the counterweights, or if the
> elevator is not balanced as per Van's instructions, it is quite
> possible that there will be destructive elevator/HS flutter at a
> speed lower than the recommended VNE. Flutter, if it occurs, could
> cause the HS and elevator to fail very quickly, causing a fatal
> accident.
>
> Put the counterweights in as per Van's design. This is not an area
> to experiment.
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
__g__
==========================================================
Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com
Tel: 415 203 9177
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Tite Seal Update |
Guys, I accidentally found out something interesting about Tite Seal. As I
indicated in my previous post, I used it a few days ago on my left tank.
Today I gassed up the left tank and checked my fuel gauge and the @#$%
&*'d
thing wasn't working. Checked the wiring, didn't find a problem, then drained
the tank to remove the float/sender. To my surprise, after the last drop of gas
had drained, Tite Seal began oozing out of the drain opening! So, I then removed
the cover plate and using a mirror, saw there was an accumulation of tite seal
in the bottom of the tank.
Naturally, this has me concerned about the merits of tite seal versus proseal.
Sure,
Proseal makes it hard to get the cover off, but if you apply too much tite seal
as I
obviously did, it's a tad unsettling, since the stuff can run down the inside of
the tank
and possibly even get into the fuel line. I think I'm gonna clean this goo out
of the
tank as best I can then use proseal and pray for no more SB's.
Some food for thought for those using tite seal.........
Walt Shipley RV-8A
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Vincent Welch" <welchvincent(at)hotmail.com> |
Are Titeseal and EZ Turn interchangeble? I already have a can of EZ Turn.
Vince
>From: "Ken Howell" <cfi1513840(at)comcast.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: titeseal
>Date: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:04:19 -0500
>
>
>Don,
>
>Here's a link that will get you some titeseal.
>http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/eppages/titeseal.php
>
>Ken Howell
>Glenwood MD
>RV-7 Wings
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Don/Marcia
>Piermattei
>Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 11:06 AM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: titeseal
>
>
>
>Can anyone provide a source for titeseal? I can't find it at ACS, Wicks,
>or
>
>Chief. They have EZ turn and call it a substitute for titeseal.
>
>Don Piermattei
>RV-9A N192DP
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Jeff Bertsch <noms1reqd(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Spouse afraid to fly |
My wife doesn't like to fly either. I had a C-172 for about 6 years and she never
saw it - 'cept in pictures.
There is one feature that an airplane must have before she'll fly in it. Can
you guess what it is? Two engines? A parachute?
Nope. A restroom.
Jeff Bertsch
Richard Scott wrote:
I was showing a newbie my project when he mentioned that his wife didn't
like to fly, didn't want him flying and was totally against him building a
plane, but he was going to do it anyway.
There used to be an RV around the area named "Divorce One" and I see a
"Divorce Two" in the cards if he can't get his wife to change her views.
Some of you guys must have had this problem--how did you deal with it?
Did you get her to accept your flying & still have peace in the family? If
so, how did you do it?
Richard Scott
RV-9A
Wings
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
| From: | "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> |
Dave,
With this simple modification, you can easily and precisely adjust the elevator's
counterbalanced weight to accomodate any current or future balancing requirements
such as might be confronted after the application of paint.
I did this on my -8 empennage kit and hopefully is of the same general design as
your -7. What I did was install a 1/4" nutplate through the forward tooling
hole on the outboard rib and by simply stacking a combination of area washers
though a bolt on the opposite side of that rib, precise balancing is quickly
adjusted.
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5788/img0010500io.jpg
http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7093/img0011506ek.jpg
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
> David Karlsberg wrote:
>
>
> So, I am working on the Right elevator. After carefully studying the
> pictures I trimmed the counterweight as shown on the plans (E-714 Trim
> Detail). The part remaining is 5/8th (like the picture shows). After
> reading it again I think I was supposed to do this when balancing it. Is it
> okay I did it now? Or will my weight be too light? If so, do I need to buy
> a new weight or can I do something to fix this? I don't think I will just
> be able to slide a new weight in there cause the skin that goes over it fits
> real tight and when it will be dimpled it might be really hard to slide this
> one out.
>
> Let me know.
>
> Thanks,
> David Karlsberg
> RV-7
> Beverly hills CA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23664#23664
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "EXT-Allen, David" <david.allen(at)boeing.com> |
I did a google on 'titeseal' and got a hit for Aircraft Spruce.
Dave Allen
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
Rick
Great idea. Any ideas out there on how to accomplish this as a retro fit on
a completed elevator.
Frank @ SGU and SLC
>From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question
>Date: Thu, 23 Mar 2006 04:47:59 -0800
>
>
>Dave,
>
>With this simple modification, you can easily and precisely adjust the
>elevator's counterbalanced weight to accomodate any current or future
>balancing requirements such as might be confronted after the application of
>paint.
>I did this on my -8 empennage kit and hopefully is of the same general
>design as your -7. What I did was install a 1/4" nutplate through the
>forward tooling hole on the outboard rib and by simply stacking a
>combination of area washers though a bolt on the opposite side of that rib,
>precise balancing is quickly adjusted.
>
>http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/5788/img0010500io.jpg
>http://img61.imageshack.us/img61/7093/img0011506ek.jpg
>
>Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
>
> >
> > David Karlsberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > So, I am working on the Right elevator. After carefully studying the
> > pictures I trimmed the counterweight as shown on the plans (E-714 Trim
> > Detail). The part remaining is 5/8th (like the picture shows). After
> > reading it again I think I was supposed to do this when balancing it. Is
>it
> > okay I did it now? Or will my weight be too light? If so, do I need to
>buy
> > a new weight or can I do something to fix this? I don't think I will
>just
> > be able to slide a new weight in there cause the skin that goes over it
>fits
> > real tight and when it will be dimpled it might be really hard to slide
>this
> > one out.
> >
> > Let me know.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > David Karlsberg
> > RV-7
> > Beverly hills CA
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23664#23664
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
Last night I successfully riveted the trailing edge of the rudder using the hand
ground angled rivet set.
I glued the edges together with 3M 5200 Marine adhesive (white alcohol clean-up)
5 days ago, and clecoed the rudder to an aluminum angle. I inserted rivets
in alternate holes, clamped the aluminum angle with side grips to keep the edges
straight and act as a back-up bar, and hand squeezed the rivets with a straight
rivet set until the set just touched the rudder skin. This squeezed 4 layers
of metal. I then finished the squeeze with the angled set using the same
setting pressure for all the rivets. A straight set was in contact with the
factory head and all the angle was placed on the shop head.
I inserted the second half of the rivets facing the opposite direction and stood
the rudder with the trailing edge up. I the squeezed these rivets with the
angled set in one squeeze. The rivets set straight and did not buckle to the
side as the pressure was straight on the rivet axis. The trailing edge is straight,
and only took about an hour start to finish..
My thoughts are: Gluing the trailing edge with a straight edge helps maintaining
alignment. I suspect the secret to maintain a straight edge is uniform rivet
pressure (harder to do with driven rivets, at least with my skill level).
I am now wondering if using a universal set would work as well leaving a rounded
head in the dimple. If I had a 3/32 universal set I would have tried one
to see.
This is becoming more fun actually finishing components!!
Sherman Butler
RV-7a Empennage
Idaho Falls
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
| From: | "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> |
I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the counterweight on the first
RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it with a heavier one when I painted
the plane. I happened to mention this to one of the Van's support people when
I called about something else, and they almost laughed me off the phone. They
said if it really needed to be that precise, there would be RV's falling out
of the sky left and right every day. Their suggestion at the time was to leave
it just a bit heavy to compensate for future paint, then quit worrying about
it.
The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights at all on an
RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but realize that
a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal operating limits. Now if
you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the recommendation, then you're on your
own anyway.
Cheers,
Rusty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23823#23823
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
On 23 Mar 2006, at 19:49, 13brv3 wrote:
>
> I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the
> counterweight on the first RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it
> with a heavier one when I painted the plane. I happened to
> mention this to one of the Van's support people when I called about
> something else, and they almost laughed me off the phone. They
> said if it really needed to be that precise, there would be RV's
> falling out of the sky left and right every day. Their suggestion
> at the time was to leave it just a bit heavy to compensate for
> future paint, then quit worrying about it.
>
> The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights
> at all on an RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
>
> My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but
> realize that a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal
> operating limits. Now if you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the
> recommendation, then you're on your own anyway.
it is good to realize that if the counterweight is too heavy, that it
will be creating an up-elevator force when you pull g. This will
reduce the amount of stick force required to pull a given amount of g
(or increase the amount of g achieved for a given stick force), and
would make the aircraft a bit more delicate to fly when pulling g,
especially at aft CG. Don't go overboard here.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
There was sombody on a E-mail list years ago, that, "looked down" and when looking
up noticed the ASI was at 260 MPH!!!!!! I REALLY would not lose sleep over
leaving it just as the factory says. Then there is sombody who flies in airshows
with a........Rocket? He regularly hits 280 or was it even faster?
13brv3 <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net> wrote:
I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the counterweight on the first
RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it with a heavier one when I painted
the plane. I happened to mention this to one of the Van's support people when
I called about something else, and they almost laughed me off the phone. They
said if it really needed to be that precise, there would be RV's falling out of
the sky left and right every day. Their suggestion at the time was to leave
it just a bit heavy to compensate for future paint, then quit worrying about it.
The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights at all on an
RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but realize that
a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal operating limits. Now if
you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the recommendation, then you're on your own
anyway.
Cheers,
Rusty
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=23823#23823
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Burden <hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Performance Problem Analysis |
Hello Listers,
I am working through a performance issue and need some help. I need to find
some folks who have flying aircraft with the following combination of features:
Flying RV7a or 9a
Carburated 180 hp 0360 (Superior/ECI/Lyc)
Sam James Cowl/plenum/induction system
Fixed pitch propellor
The intent is to compare some data and discuss any install challenges you may
have had to overcome with this, apparently rare combination.
Please respond off list to:
hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net
Thanks in advance for the help.
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
Cc: info(at)vansaircraft.com
| Subject: | N188R First Flight |
RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
It flies like an RV so of course I'm grinning.
Wow, did I really make that thing? ;-)
Thanks to everyone on the lists for their help but special thanks to Frank Wooten
for helping along the way and he topped if off today by being the chase plane
and helping me verify my inflight numbers. The plane is still no where near
'done' but at least for now when the weather is good I can actually fly it instead
of being stuck just working on it and while others have all the fun!
OK, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham, I've been waiting for years for this day so you know
what to do!
Lucky Macy
N188R FLYING
Wallingford PA
RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
It flies like an RV so of course I'm grinning.
Wow, did I really make that thing? ;-)
Thanks to everyone on the lists for their help but special thanks to Frank Wooten
for helping along the way and he topped if off today by being the chase plane
and helping me verify my inflight numbers. The plane isstill no where near'done'
but at least for now when the weather is good I can actually fly it instead
of being stuck just working on it and while others have all the fun!
OK, Chuck Dave Rowbotham, I've been waiting for years for this day so you know
what to do!
Lucky Macy
N188R FLYING
Wallingford PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: N188R First Flight |
Congratulations, Lucky!!!
Best regards,
Richard Dudley
lucky wrote:
>
>RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
>
>It flies like an RV so of course I'm grinning.
>
>Wow, did I really make that thing? ;-)
>
>Thanks to everyone on the lists for their help but special thanks to Frank Wooten
for helping along the way and he topped if off today by being the chase plane
and helping me verify my inflight numbers. The plane is still no where near
'done' but at least for now when the weather is good I can actually fly it
instead of being stuck just working on it and while others have all the fun!
>
>OK, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham, I've been waiting for years for this day so you know
what to do!
>
>Lucky Macy
>N188R FLYING
>Wallingford PA
>
>RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
>
>It flies like an RV so of course I'm grinning.
>
>Wow, did I really make that thing? ;-)
>
>Thanks to everyone on the lists for their help but special thanks to Frank Wooten
for helping along the way and he topped if off today by being the chase plane
and helping me verify my inflight numbers. The plane isstill no where near'done'
but at least for now when the weather is good I can actually fly it instead
of being stuck just working on it and while others have all the fun!
>
>OK, Chuck Dave Rowbotham, I've been waiting for years for this day so you know
what to do!
>
>Lucky Macy
>N188R FLYING
>Wallingford PA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fly n Low" <flynlow(at)usaviator.net> |
| Subject: | N188R First Flight |
Congratulations Lucky;
I am behind you, but not too far. Six months, may be a year. I am happy to
hear it all went as it was supposed to.
Bud Silvers
RV8 Fastback - Colorado - Finishing
RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net> |
| Subject: | Re: RV Elevator Counterweight question |
FWIW, I balanced my RV7 elevator after I painted it. I have kit #47 so
things may have changed as of today. But with my kit I had to remove a lot
of lead from the counterweight. I did it by drilling one hole after another
until I got it perfect. If I were doing it again and I planned to paint the
plane, I would paint before making weight adjustments.
Indiana Larry, RV7 "SunSeeker" 90+ hours flying
"Please use the information and opinions I express with responsibility, and
at your own risk."
----- Original Message ----- >
> I had worked out a way to be able to easily unbolt the counterweight on
> the first RV-8 that I built, so I could replace it with a heavier one when
> I painted the plane. I happened to mention this to one of the Van's
> support people when I called about something else, and they almost laughed
> me off the phone. They said if it really needed to be that precise, there
> would be RV's falling out of the sky left and right every day. Their
> suggestion at the time was to leave it just a bit heavy to compensate for
> future paint, then quit worrying about it.
>
> The next RV I finished was an RV-3. Guess what, no counterweights at all
> on an RV-3 elevator, and you couldn't even tell it in flight.
>
> My advice would be to do whatever makes you feel comfortable, but realize
> that a small imbalance won't cause a problem under normal operating
> limits. Now if you plan to set your Vne 50 kts past the recommendation,
> then you're on your own anyway.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Michael D. Cencula" <matronics(at)cencula.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Rudder Trailing Edge Countersinking |
Hi guys,
(second and third paragraph have suggestions for improvement)
I recently did the rudder for my RV7 (which is the same rudder as on the RV9).
It had the predrilled aluminum extrusion (AEX) wedge and prepunched skins. I
match drilled them, dimpled the skins, and created a simple jig for c-sinking
the AEX wedge. The AEX holes did get enlarged, but the dimpled skins fit
well.
When I prosealed the skins together, the dimples from one skin hit the dimples
from the other skin causing the skin to bulge slightly apart at each rivet.
It's counterintuitive...you would think that the skins would be pinched
tighter at the rivets. The end result is that if you place your fingers on
either side of the trailing edge and run them along the length of the rudder,
you can feel a little bulge at each rivet.
If I were going to do this again, I would do everything the same as before,
but I would file down the dimples just a little to allow the two skins to
actually sit flat against the AEX wedge instead of the dimples hitting each
other and causing these slight bulges.
I followed the instructions in the manual exactly. By back riveting halfway
and then setting with a mushroom set, the rivets came out really well. It's
hard to keep from bending the rivet over, so I probably drilled out 1/3 of
the rivets and put them in a second time so they all look good.
Good luck,
Mike Cencula
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | help with actual engine performance |
My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following numbers today and
want a second opinion on whether or not these are close.
I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest MP was 22.95
but that last number is the one I think is way off and I need to figure out how
to tweak my settings to compute correctly. Take off altitude was 440 feet and
I forgot the barometric pressure but it was around 30.0
What would angle engine owners expect to see for MP given this approximate scenario?
thx,
lucky
My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following numbers today and
want a second opinion on whether or not these are close.
I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest MP was 22.95
but that last number is the one I think is way off and I need to figure out how
to tweak my settings to compute correctly.Take off altitude was 440 feet and
I forgot the barometric pressure but it was around 30.0
What would angle engine owners expect to see for MP given this approximate scenario?
thx,
lucky
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: N188R First Flight |
On 24 Mar 2006, at 13:35, lucky wrote:
>
> RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
>
> It flies like an RV so of course I'm grinning.
>
> Wow, did I really make that thing? ;-)
>
> Thanks to everyone on the lists for their help but special thanks
> to Frank Wooten for helping along the way and he topped if off
> today by being the chase plane and helping me verify my inflight
> numbers. The plane is still no where near 'done' but at least for
> now when the weather is good I can actually fly it instead of being
> stuck just working on it and while others have all the fun!
>
Lucky,
Congrats! I'm jealous.
Fly safe, walk before you run, have fun,
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net> |
| Subject: | Re: help with actual engine performance |
What does your MP gauge read when the engine is stopped? It should read 29
or inches, depending on field elevation. On takeoff, it should read
slightly lower than that - maybe 1/2 or 1 inch due to induction system
losses.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: "lucky" <luckymacy(at)comcast.net>
Sent: Friday, March 24, 2006 6:32 PM
Subject: RV-List: help with actual engine performance
>
> My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following numbers
> today and want a second opinion on whether or not these are close.
>
> I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
>
> My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest MP was
> 22.95 but that last number is the one I think is way off and I need to
> figure out how to tweak my settings to compute correctly. Take off
> altitude was 440 feet and I forgot the barometric pressure but it was
> around 30.0
>
> What would angle engine owners expect to see for MP given this approximate
> scenario?
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
> My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following numbers
> today and want a second opinion on whether or not these are close.
>
> I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
>
> My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest MP was
> 22.95 but that last number is the one I think is way off and I need to
> figure out how to tweak my settings to compute correctly.Take off altitude
> was 440 feet and I forgot the barometric pressure but it was around 30.0
>
> What would angle engine owners expect to see for MP given this approximate
> scenario?
>
> thx,
> lucky
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with actual engine performance |
On 24 Mar 2006, at 18:32, lucky wrote:
>
> My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following
> numbers today and want a second opinion on whether or not these are
> close.
>
> I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
>
> My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest
> MP was 22.95 but that last number is the one I think is way off and
> I need to figure out how to tweak my settings to compute correctly.
> Take off altitude was 440 feet and I forgot the barometric pressure
> but it was around 30.0
Lucky,
As you suspect, something is fouled up somewhere. At 440 ft ASL,
with an altimeter setting of 30.00, the actual atmospheric pressure
would be about 29.5 in HG. The manifold pressure at full throttle at
low speed should be around an inch less than the atmospheric
pressure, plus or minus.
So, you either have a false MP indication, or a very significant
restriction in your induction system, or your throttle is not getting
full open.
Are you sure that your throttle plate is getting full open?
Which MP gauge or engine indication system do you have?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky) |
| Subject: | Re: help with actual engine performance |
forget the MP part. That's just me talking out loud. I have to figure out how
to make my spreadsheet algorithm match reality. It displays "right" in the cockpit
but the GRT recorded data for MP is 'raw' data and not the processed value
that's displayed.
Really my question is does the 20 gallons per hour seem right for a 200 hp engine
making full power near sea level?
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
>
> On 24 Mar 2006, at 18:32, lucky wrote:
>
> >
> > My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following
> > numbers today and want a second opinion on whether or not these are
> > close.
> >
> > I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
> >
> > My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest
> > MP was 22.95 but that last number is the one I think is way off and
> > I need to figure out how to tweak my settings to compute correctly.
> > Take off altitude was 440 feet and I forgot the barometric pressure
> > but it was around 30.0
>
> Lucky,
>
> As you suspect, something is fouled up somewhere. At 440 ft ASL,
> with an altimeter setting of 30.00, the actual atmospheric pressure
> would be about 29.5 in HG. The manifold pressure at full throttle at
> low speed should be around an inch less than the atmospheric
> pressure, plus or minus.
>
> So, you either have a false MP indication, or a very significant
> restriction in your induction system, or your throttle is not getting
> full open.
>
> Are you sure that your throttle plate is getting full open?
>
> Which MP gauge or engine indication system do you have?
>
> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
> Ottawa, Canada
> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
forget the MP part. That's just me talking out loud. I have to figure out how to
make my spreadsheet algorithm match reality. It displays "right" in the cockpit
but the GRT recorded data for MP is 'raw' data and not the processed value
that's displayed.
Really my question is does the 20 gallons per hour seem right for a 200 hp engine
making full powernear sea level?
-------------- Original message --------------
From: Kevin Horton khorton01(at)rogers.com
-- RV-List message posted by: Kevin Horton
On 24 Mar 2006, at 18:32, lucky wrote:
-- RV-List message posted by: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
My EFIS isn't quite dialed in yet but I recorded the following
numbers today and want a second opinion on whether or not these are
close.
I have a 200hp angle valved engine.
My max full throttle highest fuel flow was ~20 gph and my highest
MP was 22.95 but that last number is the one I think is way off and
I need to figure out how to tweak my settings to compute correctly.
Take off altitude was 440 feet and I forgot the
barometric pressure
but it was around 30.0
Lucky,
As you suspect, something is fouled up somewhere. At 440 ft ASL,
with an altimeter setting of 30.00, the actual atmospheric pressure
would be about 29.5 in HG. The manifold pressure at full throttle at
low speed should be around an inch less than the atmospheric
pressure, plus or minus.
So, you either have a false MP indication, or a very significant
restriction in your induction system, or your throttle is not getting
full open.
Are you sure that your throttle plate is getting full open?
Which MP gauge or engine indication system do you have?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Joe Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com> |
| Subject: | Question about engine baffle airseal fabric height |
Hi Guys,
I've finished fitting the baffles on an O-320 on an RV-9A.
I've established a clearance between 3/8" to 1/2" inch
between the baffle and the top cowling.
How high should the airseal material be above the tops
of the baffle pieces before it gets folded? I'm thinking
about 1 1/2 inches. Is this in the ballpark?
Many thanks,
Joe Connell
Stewartville, MN
RV-9A N95JJ
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | N188R First Flight |
Hi Lucky,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
We knew you'd make it !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com (RV-List), Mid-AtlRVwing(at)yahoogroups.com (MARV)
>CC: info(at)vansaircraft.com
>Subject: RV-List: N188R First Flight
>Date: Fri, 24 Mar 2006 18:35:00 +0000
>
>
>RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
>
>It flies like an RV so of course I'm grinning.
>
>Wow, did I really make that thing? ;-)
>
>Thanks to everyone on the lists for their help but special thanks to Frank
>Wooten for helping along the way and he topped if off today by being the
>chase plane and helping me verify my inflight numbers. The plane is still
>no where near 'done' but at least for now when the weather is good I can
>actually fly it instead of being stuck just working on it and while others
>have all the fun!
>
>OK, Chuck & Dave Rowbotham, I've been waiting for years for this day so you
>know what to do!
>
>Lucky Macy
>N188R FLYING
>Wallingford PA
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Glen Matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning! |
>
> RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
>
Congrats, and have a blast!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Dan <dan(at)rdan.com> |
| Subject: | Re: RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning! |
Good Job !
I'm heading to the garage !!!
-8 rudder
QB wing & fuse in hand
>
> RV8 N188R's maiden flight was this morning!
>
Congrats, and have a blast!
Glen Matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | HCRV6(at)comcast.net |
| Subject: | Re: Question about engine baffle airseal fabric height |
Yes.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 194 hours
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: "Joe Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com>
>
> Hi Guys,
>
> I've finished fitting the baffles on an O-320 on an RV-9A.
> I've established a clearance between 3/8" to 1/2" inch
> between the baffle and the top cowling.
>
> How high should the airseal material be above the tops
> of the baffle pieces before it gets folded? I'm thinking
> about 1 1/2 inches. Is this in the ballpark?
>
> Many thanks,
>
> Joe Connell
> Stewartville, MN
> RV-9A N95JJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Cory Emberson <bootless(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Feedback Request (Alternative Engines) Kitplanes Magazine |
Hello all,
I would like to hear from you if you're a builder who has successfully
installed and flown an alternative engine in your plane. I'm compiling a
builder's roundup for Kitplanes magazine, and am looking for an
installation that's flown for a minimum of 300 hours, and is currently
flying.
For the builders that we profile, the magazine will also be able to pay
you $100 for the write-up. I'll be at Sun 'n Fun until late morning on
Friday (April 7), so if you fly in, I'd be happy to take the photos
there. If not, we would also need at least 2-3 good photos, including a
close-up of the engine and an overall shot of the aircraft. Additional
photos would be great, and all photos will be returned. If you have
digital photos, it is very important that they be high-resolution, at
least 300 dpi. I have a list of specific areas to address if you'd like
to participate, but we can handle that off-line. Please feel free to
contact me off-line at: bootless (at) earthlink (dot) net (my despammed
email address).
Thank you so much!
best,
Cory Emberson
Contributing Editor
Kitplanes Magazine
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Re: help with actual engine performance |
Holy toledo! 20gph is considered normal?? No wander the glaciers are melting.
Chas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Mark Sorenson <marksorenson(at)sprintpcs.com> |
| Subject: | Atlanta Area Live with your Airplane |
For those of you interested in LIVING with YOUR AIRPLANE. There are two properties for sale at Big T airport (64GA) just 6 miles from Tarra Field's aerobatic box. Both properties have residnetial accomodations attached to hangars with over 3000 sq ft of hangar space and over 2400 sq ft of living area in the homes. One property has a joint 1000 gal fuel tank. Both properties are located ON THE RUNWAY. One property is asking $399,900 and the other is asking $385,000. These are not currently listed with MLS so save big now on commission with dealing directly with the owners. Currently 4 other IAC members here on the field and we all fly as often as possible critiquing each other. Also we are only a 11 minute drive from Aircraft Spruce and Specialties in Peachtree City, GA. For more information and owner contact info, please contact me at 678-463-5944 or at marksorenson@sprintpcs.com Look up the airport at www.airnav.com or at http://skyvector.com/airport/64GA/Big-T--Air
port
------------------
Best Regards,
Mark-
678-GO-FLY-HI
--------------------
This message was sent from a Sprint PCS Phone.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "charles heathco" <cheathco(at)junct.com> |
| Subject: | Looking for an engine |
Well seems the activituy here has dropped off since all the "wickis" and other
alternatives have popped up. During the time I have been on this list I have seen
one thing that troubles me some. Seems like every time I ask about a real
problem needing input I get maybe 2 replys at best, but if someone puts up a question
about a non issuse like the price of gas, the list is cluttered with replys.
Does this mean that most of the people on the list are just flyers or wanabys,
rather than builders, or like me, folks who do all the mods and repairs
on their planes? That being said, anybody know of a good O-320 for sale? Chas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | David Burden <hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net> |
| Subject: | Request for Info |
Hi Folks,
I recently posted a request for info from listers with flying RV7, RV7a, RV9,
RV9a, who had a specific engine/cowl/induction/prop configuration. I received
little in the way of response--probably because the con fig I have is somewhat
unique. I am making another request for data which will apply to a much larger
group.
I am working on a performance issue and would like to have comparative data.
The data, based on some postings by folks who obviously have a much greater
knowledge on engine inductions than do I, will tell us something about the average
efficiency of our induction systems. If I get a good response I will compile
the data and post it to this site -- it would therefore be helpful in evaluating
the performance of our individual systems against a group average.
The sample data should come from either nose gear or tail wheel flying RV 6-7-9s
equiped with Vans cowl and FAB induction system and carburated 0360s or 0320s
running a fixed pitch propeller. You will also need both rpm and mp gages.
The data necessary for the analysis is as follows:
1. mp indicated on engine gage prior to engine start
2. line up on runway prior to t/o and hold brakes, wot, and note mp and static
rpm
3. just at lift off note mp and rpm
4. mp and rpm at 100-400 ft agl.--watch for traffic!!
Please note in your response whether you have the 0360 or 0320 engine and the
type of engine gages (Vans, AF2500, etc)
Your help is greatly appreciated and maybe we can all learn more about the performance
of our RVs.
Please respond to:
www.hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net
Cheers,
db
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Looking for an engine |
| From: | "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com> |
More replies to non-issues than real problems? Not unexpected.
Mechanical, structural or building problems often have one or two
right/better answers--very digital, 0 or 1.
An issue of 'the price of gas' is not directly a building issue, but it
is certainly plane/pilot issue, hence fair game. Most of the answers
are, in fact, opinions or thoughts on the matter. There is no digital
answer, this is an analog issue. There is value in wide ranging input
to a policy problem like the price of gas, as there should be. The
input ranges from interesting, to logical, to 'what are they thinking'.
Nonetheless, they all are important to formulation of quality opinions
on an issue, rather than blind allegiance to our preconceived notions
that may have been formed based on limited, or faulty, information.
I view this forum as an educational tool, not just a builder assist
program, though I'm sure other's hold well-owned opinions to the
contrary. (See, you just had to suffer through another point of view!)
Chuck Jensen
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of charles heathco
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 10:32 AM
Subject: RV-List: Looking for an engine
Well seems the activituy here has dropped off since all the "wickis" and
other alternatives have popped up. During the time I have been on this
list I have seen one thing that troubles me some. Seems like every time
I ask about a real problem needing input I get maybe 2 replys at best,
but if someone puts up a question about a non issuse like the price of
gas, the list is cluttered with replys. Does this mean that most of the
people on the list are just flyers or wanabys, rather than builders, or
like me, folks who do all the mods and repairs on their planes? That
being said, anybody know of a good O-320 for sale? Chas
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
Ok, I've got the tip tanks installed and flying. What I'm finding is
that I'm overflowing the main tank vents (Van's standard main tank vent
implementation) in flight when all tanks have been filled. I confirmed
that the tip tanks can flow fuel to partially filled main tanks OK. But
when all the tanks were filled, gas poured out the main tank vents while
in flight (actually emptied both tip tanks...). Blue stains all over the
belly of the plane, and obvious gas smell while in flight (probably
coming in through the flap extension holes....).
The main tank vents have 45* bevels facing into the airflow (towards
the front of the plane, per Van's plans). They are located just behind
the firewall (per Van's plans). The tip tanks have the 1/4" tube vent
bent into the airflow.
I've installed 1/4" tubing extending 2" down from the belly of the
plane and bent 90* into the airflow on the main tank vents. That has
stopped the main tank venting (when all tanks have been filled) while in
flight. But it now appears that the fuel is not moving from the tip
tanks to the main tanks while in flight (when I inspected the main tanks
level on the ground, both were down about 2" - both tanks had been
selected individually while in flight - and the tip tanks were not down
significantly).
This problem seems to be a mis-balancing of the vent pressures between
the tip tank and the main tank. It makes me question why there shouldn't
be just one vent for BOTH the main and tip tank on each side.... Has
anyone had to resort to this technique?
Has anybody else had this problem? Is so, what was your solution?
I'll be at Sun 'N Fun on 4/7 - 4/8 but will be commuting back and
forth to the Daytona area each day. I'd like to compare notes with
anyone that has tip tanks installed....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | jay pearlman <rv6jp(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | autopilot experience |
I would be interested in comments on the trutrak autopilots from people who have
installed them in RVs.
jp
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Fred,
Are you using check valves to prevent the fuel from going from the mains to
the tips? If not, the single vent scenario would work for you - otherwise
you could pressurize the mains if your only vent was in the tips.
I've been fretting this scenario too - my initial thoughts were to use just
enough of a vent to the mains to prevent the outflowing that you are
experiencing. I also have my plumbing with a slight incline upward to my
check valve so it is the high point in that part of the system. I'll need
pressure to get the fuel to go from the tips to the mains.
Don't know if it works yet....I'm just getting started on firewall foreward.
Ralph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 4:38 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tip Tanks
>
> Ok, I've got the tip tanks installed and flying. What I'm finding is
> that I'm overflowing the main tank vents (Van's standard main tank vent
> implementation) in flight when all tanks have been filled. I confirmed
> that the tip tanks can flow fuel to partially filled main tanks OK. But
> when all the tanks were filled, gas poured out the main tank vents while
> in flight (actually emptied both tip tanks...). Blue stains all over the
> belly of the plane, and obvious gas smell while in flight (probably
> coming in through the flap extension holes....).
> The main tank vents have 45* bevels facing into the airflow (towards
> the front of the plane, per Van's plans). They are located just behind
> the firewall (per Van's plans). The tip tanks have the 1/4" tube vent
> bent into the airflow.
> I've installed 1/4" tubing extending 2" down from the belly of the
> plane and bent 90* into the airflow on the main tank vents. That has
> stopped the main tank venting (when all tanks have been filled) while in
> flight. But it now appears that the fuel is not moving from the tip
> tanks to the main tanks while in flight (when I inspected the main tanks
> level on the ground, both were down about 2" - both tanks had been
> selected individually while in flight - and the tip tanks were not down
> significantly).
> This problem seems to be a mis-balancing of the vent pressures between
> the tip tank and the main tank. It makes me question why there shouldn't
> be just one vent for BOTH the main and tip tank on each side.... Has
> anyone had to resort to this technique?
> Has anybody else had this problem? Is so, what was your solution?
> I'll be at Sun 'N Fun on 4/7 - 4/8 but will be commuting back and
> forth to the Daytona area each day. I'd like to compare notes with
> anyone that has tip tanks installed....
>
> Fred Stucklen
> RV-6A N926RV
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: autopilot experience |
| From: | Doug Weiler <dcw(at)mnwing.org> |
On 3/26/06 4:04 PM, "jay pearlman" wrote:
>
> I would be interested in comments on the trutrak autopilots from people who
> have installed them in RVs.
> jp
>
Jay:
I have the DigiFlight IIVS with GPSS and would never leave home without it.
I had about 500 hours in various RVs before installing the Tru Trak and I am
100% convinced that it is indispensable for XC flying in these aircraft.
Your fatigue level is immeasurably reduced and it allows you time to scan
for traffic and easily handle other cockpit chores. I have flown my Tru
Trak in severe turbulence and it handles such conditions as good as the
zillion dollar auto flight system in the B757 I fly for work. It tracks a
GPS course easily within .07 of a NM. Save up and buy one!!!! BUT.... You
might also hold off and see what Tru Trak is coming up with this summer.
Rumors are they will announce a newly designed EFIS system that will be
revolutionary.
Doug Weiler
N722DW, RV-4
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Fred Stucklen" <wstucklen1(at)cox.net> |
I've installed the check valves per the plans from Jon. I'm thinking
now that taking the check valve out (&replacing it with a union),
capping off the original main tank vent, and only using the tip tank
vent for both tip and main tanks.
The problem with the dual vent method (Jon's approach) is one of
balancing the pressure equally on both vents. If the main vent pressure
is higher than the tip tank vent pressure, the tip tanks won't drain
properly in flight. If the main tank vent pressure is less than the tip
tank vent pressure (by at least the "head" within the main tank vent
line rise) then the tip tank vent pressure pushes the fuel out the main
tank vent (and once it starts, a siphoning action will maintain the
flow).... Evidently, that is a valid possibility as I lost 18 gals of
fuel from the tip tanks out the main tank vents within a 20 minute
flight. The belly of the plane was quite "blue".....
If the tip tank is the ONLY vent for both main & tip tank (by
replacing the check valve with a union), the fuel would run freely to
the main tank (but at some reduced flow rate). Any excess pressure
buildup in the main (while on a hot ramp, or a slip condition in flight,
or an uneven parking condition) would push fuel outwards to the tip
tank. I guess there would be a possibility of not being able to get the
fuel back into the main tank as quickly as it is needed when the main
tank was near empty. That might lead to a fuel starvation issue. I would
think that this would not happen in straight & level flight, only under
abnormal conditions. Would the behavior of this type of fuel system be
acceptable for all realms of normal utility class flight? Big
question..... that can only be resolved through testing or others
experiences.....Would parking on a slanted ramp (where the tip was lower
than the main) move all the fuel to the tip, and could that lead to a
fuel starvation issue if one were to take off with that low tank
selected? Probably.... Is it a real threat (because the highest level
tank should have been selected prior to takeoff...)? Good
questions....(are these "real" safety issues????)
As long as the main tank and tip tank are separated with a check
valve, the main tank requires a vent. Otherwise, it would not have a
method to vent excessive pressures while sitting on a hot ramp.
Jon eluded to the use of an electric solenoid in his plans (but warned
that it's use would cause slower fuel transfers). This would also be a
doable solution, but changes the overall timing of fuel transfer.
Instead of emptying the tip tanks first, the mains would have to be run
down to a level where they would accept the full tip tank quantity. Tip
tank vent pressure would definitely have to be higher than the main tank
vent pressure, otherwise, the tips would never empty.
I'm also exploring the idea of BOTH tanks being vented to the SAME
vent. There are two possible solutions, both requiring another 1/4"
vent line in the wings. The main tanks could be vented to the tips (is
this any different than removing the check valve??) or the tip tanks
could be vented to the existing main tank vent..
I guess this is why I've asked the question as to how successful
others have been with this installation.....Have there been any fuel
problems in any other installations? Has anyone really looked at the
problem?
I sure wish that Jon was monitoring this list.... Maybe he could
comment on how his system should work....
I'm not sure what I'm going to try next. Right now, with the main tank
vent pressure greater than the tip tank vent pressure, I'm not loosing
any fuel. The tip tanks are not usable in flight, but will drain into
the mains once on the ground.
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
545 Hrs second offender...
Subject: Re: Tip Tanks
From: Ralph E. Capen (
5124$4fc438d0$0a00a8c0@CAPENFAMILY.ORG> recapen(at)earthlink.net)
Date: Sun Mar 26 - 2:33 PM
5124$4fc438d0$0a00a8c0@CAPENFAMILY.ORG> >
Fred,
Are you using check valves to prevent the fuel from going from the mains
to
the tips? If not, the single vent scenario would work for you -
otherwise
you could pressurize the mains if your only vent was in the tips.
I've been fretting this scenario too - my initial thoughts were to use
just
enough of a vent to the mains to prevent the outflowing that you are
experiencing. I also have my plumbing with a slight incline upward to
my
check valve so it is the high point in that part of the system. I'll
need
pressure to get the fuel to go from the tips to the mains.
Don't know if it works yet....I'm just getting started on firewall
foreward.
Ralph
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> |
Fred Stucklen wrote:
>
> Ok, I've got the tip tanks installed and flying. What I'm finding is
>that I'm overflowing the main tank vents (Van's standard main tank vent
>implementation) in flight when all tanks have been filled. I confirmed
>that the tip tanks can flow fuel to partially filled main tanks OK. But
>when all the tanks were filled, gas poured out the main tank vents while
>in flight (actually emptied both tip tanks...). Blue stains all over the
>belly of the plane, and obvious gas smell while in flight (probably
>coming in through the flap extension holes....).
> The main tank vents have 45* bevels facing into the airflow (towards
>the front of the plane, per Van's plans). They are located just behind
>the firewall (per Van's plans). The tip tanks have the 1/4" tube vent
>bent into the airflow.
> I've installed 1/4" tubing extending 2" down from the belly of the
>plane and bent 90* into the airflow on the main tank vents. That has
>stopped the main tank venting (when all tanks have been filled) while in
>flight. But it now appears that the fuel is not moving from the tip
>tanks to the main tanks while in flight (when I inspected the main tanks
>level on the ground, both were down about 2" - both tanks had been
>selected individually while in flight - and the tip tanks were not down
>significantly).
> This problem seems to be a mis-balancing of the vent pressures between
>the tip tank and the main tank. It makes me question why there shouldn't
>be just one vent for BOTH the main and tip tank on each side.... Has
>anyone had to resort to this technique?
> Has anybody else had this problem? Is so, what was your solution?
> I'll be at Sun 'N Fun on 4/7 - 4/8 but will be commuting back and
>forth to the Daytona area each day. I'd like to compare notes with
>anyone that has tip tanks installed....
>
>Fred Stucklen
>RV-6A N926RV
>
I'm still trying to decide how to set up my aux tanks, so I can't offer
any ideas I've tested. Having said that, here are some thoughts.
I'm not fond of using only gravity feed for the aux because with my
leading edge tanks, the aux won't drain completely until the mains are
down to maybe 5 gallons. I want the aux tanks empty early, rather than
late in the flight to get back to 'normal' handling as soon as possible.
Your tip tanks may empty earlier, with more fall to the mains.
Some ultralite guys have had success by plumbing their mains vent
directly to the aux feed & using the aux vent as the only vent for the
entire 'system'. (You could achieve the same effect by simply sealing
the mains vent.) The mains then suck the aux tanks dry while still
almost full. Obviously, the filler cap needs to seal air tight for this
to work. This idea is tempting, but I hate to change anything on the
original vent/flow path as designed into the plane if I don't have to.
Highest on my list at the moment is to feed the aux tanks to a 2nd Van's
type selector, which would feed the unused port on the existing
selector. It sounds more complex at 1st, but has the advantage of
leaving everything in the original design totally stock except the plug
in that last port of the original valve. It might (emphasize *might*) be
possible to eliminate the 2nd selector by feeding both aux tanks to a
small sump in the belly to feed the original selector. The sump *might*
keep the engine from sucking air when (not if) one aux tank empties
faster than the other. Hopefully, this potential problem would only be
encountered at altitude in cruise flight & recovery would be quick &
only mildly upholstery-pinching.
Email me off list if you're interested & my description leaves some
holes that need filling.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | autopilot experience |
Hi Jay,
We intially installed the digi-Track and then added the Alt trak. Last year
we upgraded to the Pictoral pilot.
Great Product - Great Support and Works Super! Once you use it you'd never
be without it.
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: jay pearlman <rv6jp(at)yahoo.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: autopilot experience
>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:04:20 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>I would be interested in comments on the trutrak autopilots from people who
>have installed them in RVs.
>jp
>
>
>---------------------------------
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun Get together |
Guys & gals,
How about an RV-List get together at Sun-N-Fun ??
It would be a great chance to put a face to a name and tell some great Lies
!
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: David Burden <hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Request for Info
>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:19:53 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Hi Folks,
>
> I recently posted a request for info from listers with flying RV7,
>RV7a, RV9, RV9a, who had a specific engine/cowl/induction/prop
>configuration. I received little in the way of response--probably because
>the con fig I have is somewhat unique. I am making another request for data
>which will apply to a much larger group.
>
> I am working on a performance issue and would like to have comparative
>data. The data, based on some postings by folks who obviously have a much
>greater knowledge on engine inductions than do I, will tell us something
>about the average efficiency of our induction systems. If I get a good
>response I will compile the data and post it to this site -- it would
>therefore be helpful in evaluating the performance of our individual
>systems against a group average.
>
> The sample data should come from either nose gear or tail wheel flying
>RV 6-7-9s equiped with Vans cowl and FAB induction system and carburated
>0360s or 0320s running a fixed pitch propeller. You will also need both rpm
>and mp gages.
>
> The data necessary for the analysis is as follows:
>
> 1. mp indicated on engine gage prior to engine start
> 2. line up on runway prior to t/o and hold brakes, wot, and note mp and
>static rpm
> 3. just at lift off note mp and rpm
> 4. mp and rpm at 100-400 ft agl.--watch for traffic!!
>
> Please note in your response whether you have the 0360 or 0320 engine
>and the type of engine gages (Vans, AF2500, etc)
>
> Your help is greatly appreciated and maybe we can all learn more about
>the performance of our RVs.
>
> Please respond to:
>
> www.hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net
>
> Cheers,
>
> db
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mannan J. Thomason" <mannanj(at)alltel.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun Get together |
Great idea! Wanted to have my 8 finished in time this year, but it "ain't
happenin" OSH hopefully. I'd like to be there all week, but may have to
leave Thursday. Let me know where and when.
Mannan Thomason
RV-8 Almost done!
>
> Guys & gals,
>
> How about an RV-List get together at Sun-N-Fun ??
>
> It would be a great chance to put a face to a name and tell some great
> Lies!
>
> Chuck Rowbotham
> RV-8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Reuven Silberman <pilots2(at)yahoo.com> |
| Subject: | Re: autopilot experience |
Jay,
Buy it. The best experimental ap out there. It flawlessly tracks a heading or
GPS flight plan. Factory support is excellent.
Reuven
Wild Thing Aeronautics, LLC
RV7A N7WT
I would be interested in comments on the trutrak autopilots from people who have
installed them in RVs.
jp
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> |
Those guys who are selling the tubular aux tanks plumb the aux tanks
through facet fuel pumps which act as check valves. When you've burned
enough out of the main, you refill it from the aux using the electric
pump which has a light that comes on after a set amount of time to
remind you to turn it off. Just another idea.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 5:44 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Tip Tanks
Fred Stucklen wrote:
>
> Ok, I've got the tip tanks installed and flying. What I'm finding is
>that I'm overflowing the main tank vents (Van's standard main tank vent
>implementation) in flight when all tanks have been filled. I confirmed
>that the tip tanks can flow fuel to partially filled main tanks OK. But
>when all the tanks were filled, gas poured out the main tank vents
while
>in flight (actually emptied both tip tanks...). Blue stains all over
the
>belly of the plane, and obvious gas smell while in flight (probably
>coming in through the flap extension holes....).
> The main tank vents have 45* bevels facing into the airflow (towards
>the front of the plane, per Van's plans). They are located just behind
>the firewall (per Van's plans). The tip tanks have the 1/4" tube vent
>bent into the airflow.
> I've installed 1/4" tubing extending 2" down from the belly of the
>plane and bent 90* into the airflow on the main tank vents. That has
>stopped the main tank venting (when all tanks have been filled) while
in
>flight. But it now appears that the fuel is not moving from the tip
>tanks to the main tanks while in flight (when I inspected the main
tanks
>level on the ground, both were down about 2" - both tanks had been
>selected individually while in flight - and the tip tanks were not down
>significantly).
> This problem seems to be a mis-balancing of the vent pressures
between
>the tip tank and the main tank. It makes me question why there
shouldn't
>be just one vent for BOTH the main and tip tank on each side.... Has
>anyone had to resort to this technique?
> Has anybody else had this problem? Is so, what was your solution?
> I'll be at Sun 'N Fun on 4/7 - 4/8 but will be commuting back and
>forth to the Daytona area each day. I'd like to compare notes with
>anyone that has tip tanks installed....
>
>Fred Stucklen
>RV-6A N926RV
>
I'm still trying to decide how to set up my aux tanks, so I can't offer
any ideas I've tested. Having said that, here are some thoughts.
I'm not fond of using only gravity feed for the aux because with my
leading edge tanks, the aux won't drain completely until the mains are
down to maybe 5 gallons. I want the aux tanks empty early, rather than
late in the flight to get back to 'normal' handling as soon as possible.
Your tip tanks may empty earlier, with more fall to the mains.
Some ultralite guys have had success by plumbing their mains vent
directly to the aux feed & using the aux vent as the only vent for the
entire 'system'. (You could achieve the same effect by simply sealing
the mains vent.) The mains then suck the aux tanks dry while still
almost full. Obviously, the filler cap needs to seal air tight for this
to work. This idea is tempting, but I hate to change anything on the
original vent/flow path as designed into the plane if I don't have to.
Highest on my list at the moment is to feed the aux tanks to a 2nd Van's
type selector, which would feed the unused port on the existing
selector. It sounds more complex at 1st, but has the advantage of
leaving everything in the original design totally stock except the plug
in that last port of the original valve. It might (emphasize *might*) be
possible to eliminate the 2nd selector by feeding both aux tanks to a
small sump in the belly to feed the original selector. The sump *might*
keep the engine from sucking air when (not if) one aux tank empties
faster than the other. Hopefully, this potential problem would only be
encountered at altitude in cruise flight & recovery would be quick &
only mildly upholstery-pinching.
Email me off list if you're interested & my description leaves some
holes that need filling.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Moving to Tucson-need advice |
Any airport that accepts federal funds will have a hard time preventing you
from doing any routine maintenance on your aircraft in your own hangar. They
can stop you from starting a business, but not working on your own airplane.
Talk to the EAA or AOPA about it.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sarg314
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 11:20 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Moving to Tucson-need advice
Louis:
There are 3 major airports in the vicinity but only one that is
builder-friendly. Marana airport (previously Avra Valley) doesn't allow
any one doing contruction or repairs in their hangar period. Tucson
International (TUS class C) has lots of existing home-builts but has
newly announced a policy of only preventive maintenance being performed
in hangars. For the moment they are not enforcing this, but it is the
official policy.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Beadle" <dan.beadle(at)inclinesoftworks.com> |
| Subject: | Sun-N-Fun Get together |
Sounds fun. I will be there 4/5 & 6
Dan Beadle
RV8
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Rowbotham
Sent: Sunday, March 26, 2006 6:26 PM
Subject: RV-List: Sun-N-Fun Get together
Guys & gals,
How about an RV-List get together at Sun-N-Fun ??
It would be a great chance to put a face to a name and tell some great Lies
!
Chuck Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: David Burden <hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Request for Info
>Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 08:19:53 -0800 (PST)
>
>
>Hi Folks,
>
> I recently posted a request for info from listers with flying RV7,
>RV7a, RV9, RV9a, who had a specific engine/cowl/induction/prop
>configuration. I received little in the way of response--probably because
>the con fig I have is somewhat unique. I am making another request for data
>which will apply to a much larger group.
>
> I am working on a performance issue and would like to have comparative
>data. The data, based on some postings by folks who obviously have a much
>greater knowledge on engine inductions than do I, will tell us something
>about the average efficiency of our induction systems. If I get a good
>response I will compile the data and post it to this site -- it would
>therefore be helpful in evaluating the performance of our individual
>systems against a group average.
>
> The sample data should come from either nose gear or tail wheel flying
>RV 6-7-9s equiped with Vans cowl and FAB induction system and carburated
>0360s or 0320s running a fixed pitch propeller. You will also need both rpm
>and mp gages.
>
> The data necessary for the analysis is as follows:
>
> 1. mp indicated on engine gage prior to engine start
> 2. line up on runway prior to t/o and hold brakes, wot, and note mp and
>static rpm
> 3. just at lift off note mp and rpm
> 4. mp and rpm at 100-400 ft agl.--watch for traffic!!
>
> Please note in your response whether you have the 0360 or 0320 engine
>and the type of engine gages (Vans, AF2500, etc)
>
> Your help is greatly appreciated and maybe we can all learn more about
>the performance of our RVs.
>
> Please respond to:
>
> www.hootsnik(at)sbcglobal.net
>
> Cheers,
>
> db
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Moving to Tucson-need advice |
| From: | "Dan" <rvsearey(at)aol.com> |
Hi Louis, you might try calling Denny Nolan, the owner of a beautiful new airpark,
Ruby Star(14AZ), in Sahuarita just south of TUS. The last time I saw him
he was building T-hangars and planning to build a new big hangar. He's a great
guy and very friendly to outside people. Also he might know of people on the
airpark that might have hangar space to rent. Ruby Star is on McGee Ranch
Rd. and is 4300' and paved. All the streets/taxiways are paved too. Dennys number
is 520-625-0980.
Dan Decker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24509#24509
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | autopilot experience |
Chuck,
What features does adding the Pictoral Pilot add to your
Digitrak/Altrak autopilot?
Charlie Kuss
>
>Hi Jay,
>
>We intially installed the digi-Track and then added the Alt trak. Last year
>we upgraded to the Pictoral pilot.
>
>Great Product - Great Support and Works Super! Once you use it you'd never
>be without it.
>
>Chuck Rowbotham
>RV-8A
>
>
> >From: jay pearlman <rv6jp(at)yahoo.com>
> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> >Subject: RV-List: autopilot experience
> >Date: Sun, 26 Mar 2006 14:04:20 -0800 (PST)
> >
> >
> >I would be interested in comments on the trutrak autopilots from people who
> >have installed them in RVs.
> >jp
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
Listers,
I understand that Vans has switched vendor for the nose wheel parts
from Cleveland to Matco. Could someone enlighten me on what the part
numbers for the original Cleveland nose wheel, bearings, axle, etc.
were? I'd prefer to buy these items in Cleveland brand. Anyone out
there have these items they would like to sell?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | sportav8r(at)aol.com |
| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel info |
No, but I have a pair of sealed bearings for the Matco that I bought by mistake...
cheap to anyone who needs a spare set.
-Stormy
I may have the Timken part #'s for the nosewheel bearings at home somewhere (Cleveland);
I will look. Van was not helpful getting this info last time I needed
it.
-----Original Message-----
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List: Nose wheel info
Listers,
I understand that Vans has switched vendor for the nose wheel parts
from Cleveland to Matco. Could someone enlighten me on what the part
numbers for the original Cleveland nose wheel, bearings, axle, etc.
were? I'd prefer to buy these items in Cleveland brand. Anyone out
there have these items they would like to sell?
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Walter Casey <mikec(at)caseyspm.com> |
| Subject: | Anywhere Wx 4-sale |
I have a complete "Anywhere Map" WX weather system which I purchased
at Oshkosh 2005. It is a moving map with Approach Plates, SIDS and
STARS.
It uses the HP IPAQ display.
=EF=BF=BC=EF=BF=BC
The system currently sells for $1,895
http://www.anywheremap.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=3D32
I have the original box, manuals, everything.
It is yours for $1,200 or Best Offer
I am selling because I am buying the $8,500 Grand Rapids weather system.
My tail number is N311WT
Contact me at
* Mike Casey *
* 6528 S. Oneida Ct. *
* Centennial, CO 80111-4617 USA *
* *
* Phone (303) 771-0815 *
* FAX (303) 220-1477 *
* eMail mikec(at)caseyspm.com *
********************************************
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Sun-N-Fun Get together |
| From: | James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com> |
How about Thursday or Friday for those of us who can not be there for the
whole week. I will be there then as I can get away from work for these
two days. Us working stiffs sure have it tough!!
Jim Nelson
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Diffenbaugh" <diff(at)foothill.net> |
| Subject: | autopilot experience |
From: jay pearlman <rv6jp(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-List: autopilot experience
I would be interested in comments on the trutrak autopilots from people who
have
installed them in RVs.
jp
During construction, I upgraded my Trutrak to the Digiflight II VSG because
I purchased a Garmin GNS480 with vertical navigation. (TruTrak was very nice
and only charged me the difference). During ground testing, there were
several problems. The folks at TruTrak were very nice and had me send it
back to upgrade the software to fix the problems which it did. (I am a bit
disappointed that there is no serial port to upgrade the software and that I
had to remove the unit and send it back--lets hope I don't have to remove it
again). In further ground testing, I could not get the vertical navigation
to link up with my GNS480. To make a long story short, it turns out per my
last conversation with them that they have not been able to get it to work
because Garmin did not include a centerline signal in their unit and have no
plans to change it. So, it turns out I didn't get what I paid for. I'm not
sure how it performs otherwise since the first flight is about a month or so
away. Other testimonials are glowing so I am optimistic, although it would
have been nice to take a nap while the plane landed itself like the big boys
do.
Scott Diffenbaugh
RV-7A FAA approved and ready to fly -just waiting for me!
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Ed OConnor <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com> |
At approximately 1500 hours (3:00 PM) my RV-8 and I (call sign N366RV)
took to the air for the first time from Sandy Creek Airpark, Panama
City Fl. Flew approximately 35 minutes on this maiden flight. This
project began in Jun 1997 and finished today with a great flight. The
aircraft flew straight and true with no roll tendencies and other then
a few instruments needing some calibration, she is ready to go again
and so am I. Flying high cover in an RV-6 was Joe Brown. Photo chase
was flown by Larry Price in his RV-8 with Rich Turner in the back seat
for photos and Don Fitzgerald manning the movie camera to document the
event, especially the T/O and landing, which was not too bad for my
first one in an RV-8. Engine is an XP 360 with AFP fuel injection, MT
two bladed aluminum prop and Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS 1. Still
grinning.
________________________________________________________________________________
That's for the "certified" LSA kit. Isn't there still an Experimental LSA category
that has the same latitude its big brother Amateur-Built Experimental enjoys?
Greg Young
>
>
>
> Actually, you are a bit off on this reply. If you build a
> light-sport certified kit you can not do what you want, but
> must build it exactly as the manufacturer calls out in their
> assembly manual. any deviations must be approved by the
> manufacturer. Other than that you are OK.
>
> Mike Robertson
> Das Fed
>
--
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Richard Dudley <rhdudley(at)att.net> |
| Subject: | Re: First Flight |
Congratulations, Ed!!!!!!!
Richard Dudey
Ed OConnor wrote:
>
>At approximately 1500 hours (3:00 PM) my RV-8 and I (call sign N366RV)
>took to the air for the first time from Sandy Creek Airpark, Panama
>City Fl. Flew approximately 35 minutes on this maiden flight. This
>project began in Jun 1997 and finished today with a great flight. The
>aircraft flew straight and true with no roll tendencies and other then
>a few instruments needing some calibration, she is ready to go again
>and so am I. Flying high cover in an RV-6 was Joe Brown. Photo chase
>was flown by Larry Price in his RV-8 with Rich Turner in the back seat
>for photos and Don Fitzgerald manning the movie camera to document the
>event, especially the T/O and landing, which was not too bad for my
>first one in an RV-8. Engine is an XP 360 with AFP fuel injection, MT
>two bladed aluminum prop and Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS 1. Still
>grinning.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Tip tanks (more) |
I also plan on using tip tanks on my RV7A. And I've also been pondering this
fuel feed question for at least 12 months. This is a very good thread and
timely for me.
I've seen many solutions (actually flying) for feeding fuel from the tips
and I've listed a few below with a few of my comments on each. Just my
opinion of course and I welcome further feedback.
1. Floating "cistern" style valve in main tank. Opens valve to allow fuel to
flow from tip to main when fuel in main gets down to a certain level.
Advantages: Fully automatic..nothing to do or remember. No chance of fuel
being vented from mains vent. Disadvantages: No suitable valve available on
the market as far as I know which means you have to manufacture it. May be
prone to mechanical failure. A nightmare to get to if it fails. Conclusion:
Not for me.
2. Five way fuel selector. Andair sells them. Enables selection of either
mains or either tips individually.
Advantages: 100% access to auxiliary fuel guaranteed. No check valves to
fail. No problems with differential vent pressures between mains and tips.
Disadvantages: You'll have to run the tips dry to empty them which means the
engine will stop. If you're not careful and you leave the tips selected you
might lose engine power at a bad time. Conclusion: A potentially dangerous
set-up if you get distracted. Using all useable fuel in flight essentailly
means running a tank dry. Not for me.
3. One way mechanical valve. Andair sells them and they are fitted between
the tips and the mains.
Advantages: Very reliable in terms of fuel availability and nothing to
remember. Disadvantages: Can result in fuel overflowing through mains vent
if pressure differential not precise. Once flow starts it may be assisted
by siphon effect. When the plane is parked with full mains, fuel will seep
back through the one-way valve and refill the tips. This can be a problem
for accurate fuel measurement. It also precludes any aerobatics until the
fuel can be pumped back into the mains in flight. Also requires a well
sealing fuel cap to prevent fuel loss at the cap (that excludes Vans caps
which are terrible). Conclusion: Popular solution but not without problems.
4. Electric fuel pump between tips and mains.
Advantages: Fast fuel transfer. Control of flow. Disadvantages: Requires
electric power to gain access to aux fuel. The pump introduces another
failure point. If the mains are full when the pump is switched on then all
the tip fuel will be pumped overboard. Conclusion: Unnecessarily
complicated.
5. Straight feed between tips and mains. No check valve.
Advantages: Completely outweighed by disadvanteges. Disadvantages: No way to
control fuel from feeding back into the tips while parked or in flight. If
it occurs in flight it could result in fuel exhaustion. It could also result
in an irretrievable spin if aerobatics attempted. Conclusion: Not practical
as far as I can see.
6. Tips to mains through fuel selector. Calls for routing the tips fuel into
the cabin to auxiliary selector(s) and then to the mains.
Advantages: Virtually guaranteed fuel supply if correct selection made.
Disadvantages: Additional fuel plumbing in wing and cabin. Additional fuel
selectors which may present problems in terms of location, access and
accidental movement of selector by pilot or passenger. Conclusion: Messy
plumbing in cabin and fuel selectors everywhere.
7. One way electric solenoid. Fitted between tips and mains.
Advantages: Complete control of fuel flow. Fuel can be retained in tips
until mains reduced to avoid any possibility of fuel overflowing from mains
vent or leaking fuel cap. Positive valve action will prevent fuel seeping
back into the tips while plane parked. Disadvantages: Requires electric
power to enable access to aux fuel. Relatively slow fuel transfer (but
should exceed fuel flow required for 100% engine power). Conclusion: Not
perfect, but might be best of the bunch.
Have others had success with an electric solenoid. If so, what type of
solenoid did you use. If you've had problems with this arrangement I'd like
to know about that as well.
careerone.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: RV-12 question |
| From: | "steveadams" <dr_steve_adams(at)yahoo.com> |
gyoung wrote:
> That's for the "certified" LSA kit. Isn't there still an Experimental LSA category
that has the same latitude its big brother Amateur-Built Experimental enjoys?
>
> Greg Young
>
>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Actually, you are a bit off on this reply. If you build a
> > light-sport certified kit you can not do what you want, but
> > must build it exactly as the manufacturer calls out in their
> > assembly manual. any deviations must be approved by the
> > manufacturer. Other than that you are OK.
> >
> > Mike Robertson
> > Das Fed
> >
> >
> >
>
> --
You are correct. If the kit still meets the 51% rule, then it is still experimental.
I don't know how Van's intends to market the RV-12, but I assumed it would
be as a E-LSA.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24753#24753
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Nose wheel info |
Listers,
ACS's listed Cleveland nose wheel is a 5:00 X 5" wheel. Vans
specifies a 11X4:00 -5" tire for the nose wheel, so that does not
appear to be the correct model. Matco lists 2 possible nose wheels of
5" diameter, using a 1.25" axle. One is model WHLNW501.25 See
http://www.matcomfg.com/catalog/index.php?file=catalog&action=catalog_productinfo&uid=2192&pi_id=67726&clist=0,56981,67719
The other is model WHLNW511.25 See
http://www.matcomfg.com/catalog/index.php?file=catalog&action=catalog_productinfo&uid=2192&pi_id=67728&clist=0,56981,67719
From the web site, they both appear to use tapered roller bearings
and are 3 7/8" wide. Does anyone know which of these two units is
supplied by Vans? Does Cleveland make a similar product?
Charlie Kuss
>Open up your Aircraft Spruce catalog to the section on wheels &
>brakes. I don't care for Matco either!!!
>Linn
>
>
>Charlie Kuss wrote:
>
>>
>>Listers,
>> I understand that Vans has switched vendor for the nose wheel
>> parts from Cleveland to Matco. Could someone enlighten me on what
>> the part numbers for the original Cleveland nose wheel, bearings,
>> axle, etc. were? I'd prefer to buy these items in Cleveland brand.
>> Anyone out there have these items they would like to sell?
>>Charlie Kuss
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com> |
Cc: "'RV-List'"
| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
Bob,
Per your item #5 below, (Straight feed between tips and mains.
No check valve.) flow to the tip tanks can be some what
mitigated by the position of the inlet to the main tank (from the tip
tank). Jon's plans call for this fitting to be in the center of the tank
height. This results in there always being fuel in the main tank, and
the inability to drain to the tip tank once the main tank level goes
below the level of this fitting. This is something like 10 gals of fuel.
It also takes a fair amount of time for the tip tanks to refill, and the
aircraft must be in an abnormal position (wing low on a ramp, or
a continuous slip) for that time period to have a substantial amount
of fuel drain out of the main. In flight, if the low wing were selected,
you would also run the risk of un-porting the fuel pickup before a
substantial amount of fuel were moved (but this is another problem).
What I like about this setup is that there in no pilot input required
to utilize the tip tank fuel: no fuel selector to forget to position, no
electric pump or solenoid to forget to shutoff.. If there is fuel in the
tip tank, then the main tank is always full.
I'm in the process of trying this setup out. I'll post to the list the
results of my tests. I should have it completed for the trip to
Sun 'N Fun next week (4/6 - 4/7 for me...).
From: "Bob Barrow" < bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com
>
Subject: Tip tanks (more)
>
I also plan on using tip tanks on my RV7A. And I've also been
pondering this
fuel feed question for at least 12 months. This is a very good thread
and
timely for me.
I've seen many solutions (actually flying) for feeding fuel from the
tips
and I've listed a few below with a few of my comments on each. Just
my
opinion of course and I welcome further feedback.
1. Floating "cistern" style valve in main tank. Opens valve to allow
fuel to
flow from tip to main when fuel in main gets down to a certain level.
Advantages: Fully automatic..nothing to do or remember. No chance of
fuel
being vented from mains vent. Disadvantages: No suitable valve
available on
the market as far as I know which means you have to manufacture it.
May be
prone to mechanical failure. A nightmare to get to if it fails.
Conclusion:
Not for me.
2. Five way fuel selector. Andair sells them. Enables selection of
either
mains or either tips individually.
Advantages: 100% access to auxiliary fuel guaranteed. No check valves
to
fail. No problems with differential vent pressures between mains and
tips.
Disadvantages: You'll have to run the tips dry to empty them which
means the
engine will stop. If you're not careful and you leave the tips
selected you
might lose engine power at a bad time. Conclusion: A potentially
dangerous
set-up if you get distracted. Using all useable fuel in flight
essentially
means running a tank dry. Not for me.
3. One way mechanical valve. Andair sells them and they are fitted
between
the tips and the mains.
Advantages: Very reliable in terms of fuel availability and nothing to
remember. Disadvantages: Can result in fuel overflowing through mains
vent
if pressure differential not precise. Once flow starts it may be
assisted
by siphon effect. When the plane is parked with full mains, fuel will
seep
back through the one-way valve and refill the tips. This can be a
problem
for accurate fuel measurement. It also precludes any aerobatics until
the
fuel can be pumped back into the mains in flight. Also requires a well
sealing fuel cap to prevent fuel loss at the cap (that excludes Vans
caps
which are terrible). Conclusion: Popular solution but not without
problems.
4. Electric fuel pump between tips and mains.
Advantages: Fast fuel transfer. Control of flow. Disadvantages:
Requires
electric power to gain access to aux fuel. The pump introduces another
failure point. If the mains are full when the pump is switched on then
all
the tip fuel will be pumped overboard. Conclusion: Unnecessarily
complicated.
5. Straight feed between tips and mains. No check valve.
Advantages: Completely outweighed by disadvantages. Disadvantages: No
way to
control fuel from feeding back into the tips while parked or in
flight. If
it occurs in flight it could result in fuel exhaustion. It could also
result
in an irretrievable spin if aerobatics attempted. Conclusion: Not
practical
as far as I can see.
6. Tips to mains through fuel selector. Calls for routing the tips
fuel into
the cabin to auxiliary selector(s) and then to the mains.
Advantages: Virtually guaranteed fuel supply if correct selection
made.
Disadvantages: Additional fuel plumbing in wing and cabin. Additional
fuel
selectors which may present problems in terms of location, access and
accidental movement of selector by pilot or passenger. Conclusion:
Messy
plumbing in cabin and fuel selectors everywhere.
7. One way electric solenoid. Fitted between tips and mains.
Advantages: Complete control of fuel flow. Fuel can be retained in
tips
until mains reduced to avoid any possibility of fuel overflowing from
mains
vent or leaking fuel cap. Positive valve action will prevent fuel
seeping
back into the tips while plane parked. Disadvantages: Requires
electric
power to enable access to aux fuel. Relatively slow fuel transfer (but
should exceed fuel flow required for 100% engine power). Conclusion:
Not
perfect, but might be best of the bunch.
Have others had success with an electric solenoid. If so, what type of
solenoid did you use. If you've had problems with this arrangement I'd
like
to know about that as well.
careerone.com.au
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Evan and Megan Johnson" <evmeg(at)snowcrest.net> |
| Subject: | Re: Moving to Tucson-need advice |
My brother Dominic Johnson is a real estate agent in Sahuarita and he sent
me a listing for a lot at this strip. Seemed like reasonable prices to me,
though I don't remember the exact figures. This little community is
apparently growing like crazy and I would think a house by the private strip
would be a good investment. If anybody needs a realtor, let me know and I
will put you in touch. Tucson is a great town....pretty scenery and great
burritos
Cheers..
Evan Johnson
www.evansaviationproducts.com
(530)247-0375
(530)351-1776 cell
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan" <rvsearey(at)aol.com>
Sent: Monday, March 27, 2006 2:45 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Moving to Tucson-need advice
>
> Hi Louis, you might try calling Denny Nolan, the owner of a beautiful new
airpark, Ruby Star(14AZ), in Sahuarita just south of TUS. The last time I
saw him he was building T-hangars and planning to build a new big hangar.
He's a great guy and very friendly to outside people. Also he might know of
people on the airpark that might have hangar space to rent. Ruby Star is on
McGee Ranch Rd. and is 4300' and paved. All the streets/taxiways are paved
too. Dennys number is 520-625-0980.
>
>
Dan Decker
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24509#24509
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Moving to Tucson-need advice |
| From: | "Dan" <rvsearey(at)aol.com> |
You are right on all points, Ruby Star is one of the nicest airparks around that
area. I bought a lot (8 acres) just a little over a year ago and I can't wait
to build.
Dan Decker
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24798#24798
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com> |
Ed,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: Ed OConnor <Edwardoconnor(at)mac.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: RV-8 list RV List , RV-List RV List
>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight
>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:48:37 -0600
>
>
>At approximately 1500 hours (3:00 PM) my RV-8 and I (call sign N366RV)
>took to the air for the first time from Sandy Creek Airpark, Panama
>City Fl. Still grinning.
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
| From: | "bdjones1965" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
You should check some of the salvage operations. I would imagine there are still
some hurricane/tornado salvage engines still around.
Bryan Jones -8
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24836#24836
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at a
salvage yard. Last time I talked with my insurance contacts the insurance
carriers that he knew of, were requiring the total destruction on the
aircraft that were totaled because of water emersion and lack to treatment
after they were pulled from the flood. The salvage yard had to crush them
with a bulldozer and certify that all parts would never be in the stream of
commerce again. What a waste.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdjones1965
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 2:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Looking for an engine
You should check some of the salvage operations. I would imagine there are
still some hurricane/tornado salvage engines still around.
Bryan Jones -8
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24836#24836
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Atlanta Area Live with your Airplane |
| From: | "Tony" <tchase38(at)yahoo.com> |
How much are the associatoin fees ?
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24856#24856
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> |
Through January 2008 there is latitude because we can get it in under the
"existing aircraft" category. But all these existing aircraft are supposed
to be certificated prior to January 2008. After that there is a serious
question. I think there will be some way to handle it but in what form I do
not know at this time.
Mike Robertson
das Fed
>From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To:
>Subject: RE: RV-List: RV-12 question
>Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2006 19:47:10 -0600
>
>
>That's for the "certified" LSA kit. Isn't there still an Experimental LSA
>category that has the same latitude its big brother Amateur-Built
>Experimental enjoys?
>
>Greg Young
>
> >
> >
> >
> > Actually, you are a bit off on this reply. If you build a
> > light-sport certified kit you can not do what you want, but
> > must build it exactly as the manufacturer calls out in their
> > assembly manual. any deviations must be approved by the
> > manufacturer. Other than that you are OK.
> >
> > Mike Robertson
> > Das Fed
> >
>
>--
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net> |
| Subject: | Magneto Timer: Credit where Credit is Due |
A few months ago, there were some posts about a home build timer kid. Well, I
ordered the kid and over some time (too much flying) I managed to assemble the
timer. Unfortunately only one side worked. After checking contacts and schematics,
same dilemma. So I called the manufacturer and discussed the problem
with Paul Brewington. He ask me to mail my unit to him and he would try to fix
it. Well Paul not only fixed the timer in an expedited matter he even returned
my cash I had enclosed for his trouble and the return postage.
YES, there are still good vendors our there. Herewith I would like to recommend
BREWINGTON TECHNOLOGY of Longview, TX! (Paul(at)magnetotimer.com or call (903)758
7490 and ask for Paul
Lothar RV-6A, 600 hrs
I have NO interest in Brewington Tech, just a very satisfied customer
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
Hi Fred, thanks for your comments. I actually received quite a lot of
replies to my post but for some reason people chose to email me directly. I
appreciated all of the comments but I would ask people to respond through
this forum because it enables everyone to gain benefit from the diversity of
opinion and experience.
In terms of your specific direction re straight feed. There are a number of
reasons I feel reluctant to go that way but I will raise just one.
The ability of the RV to recover from a spin depends primarily on the
capacity of the rudders' authority to overcome the moment of the spinning
wings. And because moment is lever arm multiplied by mass it therefore stand
to reason that even a small increase in mass at the wing tips will grossly
increase the moment. For a start all tip tanks will add at least 6 lbs over
the weight of standard tips (dry weight). That alone may influence spin
recovery.
Any additional mass in the form of fuel in the tips (extra 1kg per litre
approx) could prove fatal in a spin....even a very small quantity (say just
3 or 4 litres) may lead to an unrecoverable spin. On the other hand it may
not...it might take 10 litres...but I for one will not be the test pilot
finding out where the limit is.
So I would say that it would be very prudent not to get into a spin with any
fuel whatsoever in the tips. And the straight feed solution can never
guarantee that the tips are completely empty. So aerobatics would be out of
the question...firstly because they would guarantee that fuel would run to
the tips...and secondly because it greatly increases the chances of an
inadvertent spin.
As Einstein was reported to have said: " A mechanism should be as simple as
practicable...but no simpler" (or words to that effect). In aviation
oversimplification can introduce risk...just look at Van's nose gear.
>From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com>
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: "'Bob Barrow'"
>CC: "'RV-List'"
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Tip tanks (more)
>Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 09:57:00 -0500
>
>
>
>Bob,
>
> Per your item #5 below, (Straight feed between tips and mains.
>No check valve.) flow to the tip tanks can be some what
>mitigated by the position of the inlet to the main tank (from the tip
>tank). Jon's plans call for this fitting to be in the center of the tank
>height. This results in there always being fuel in the main tank, and
>the inability to drain to the tip tank once the main tank level goes
>below the level of this fitting. This is something like 10 gals of fuel.
> It also takes a fair amount of time for the tip tanks to refill, and the
>aircraft must be in an abnormal position (wing low on a ramp, or
>a continuous slip) for that time period to have a substantial amount
>of fuel drain out of the main. In flight, if the low wing were selected,
>you would also run the risk of un-porting the fuel pickup before a
>substantial amount of fuel were moved (but this is another problem).
>
> What I like about this setup is that there in no pilot input required
>to utilize the tip tank fuel: no fuel selector to forget to position, no
>electric pump or solenoid to forget to shutoff.. If there is fuel in the
>tip tank, then the main tank is always full.
>
> I'm in the process of trying this setup out. I'll post to the list the
>results of my tests. I should have it completed for the trip to
>Sun 'N Fun next week (4/6 - 4/7 for me...).
>
>
>From: "Bob Barrow" < bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com
> >
>Subject: Tip tanks (more)
>
>bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com
> >
>
>
> I also plan on using tip tanks on my RV7A. And I've also been
>pondering this
> fuel feed question for at least 12 months. This is a very good
>thread
>and
> timely for me.
>
> I've seen many solutions (actually flying) for feeding fuel from the
>tips
> and I've listed a few below with a few of my comments on each. Just
>my
> opinion of course and I welcome further feedback.
>
> 1. Floating "cistern" style valve in main tank. Opens valve to allow
>fuel to
> flow from tip to main when fuel in main gets down to a certain
>level.
>
> Advantages: Fully automatic..nothing to do or remember. No chance of
>fuel
> being vented from mains vent. Disadvantages: No suitable valve
>available on
> the market as far as I know which means you have to manufacture it.
>May be
> prone to mechanical failure. A nightmare to get to if it fails.
>Conclusion:
> Not for me.
>
> 2. Five way fuel selector. Andair sells them. Enables selection of
>either
> mains or either tips individually.
>
> Advantages: 100% access to auxiliary fuel guaranteed. No check
>valves
>to
> fail. No problems with differential vent pressures between mains and
>tips.
> Disadvantages: You'll have to run the tips dry to empty them which
>means the
> engine will stop. If you're not careful and you leave the tips
>selected you
> might lose engine power at a bad time. Conclusion: A potentially
>dangerous
> set-up if you get distracted. Using all useable fuel in flight
>essentially
> means running a tank dry. Not for me.
>
> 3. One way mechanical valve. Andair sells them and they are fitted
>between
> the tips and the mains.
>
> Advantages: Very reliable in terms of fuel availability and nothing
>to
>
> remember. Disadvantages: Can result in fuel overflowing through
>mains
>vent
> if pressure differential not precise. Once flow starts it may be
>assisted
> by siphon effect. When the plane is parked with full mains, fuel
>will
>seep
> back through the one-way valve and refill the tips. This can be a
>problem
> for accurate fuel measurement. It also precludes any aerobatics
>until
>the
> fuel can be pumped back into the mains in flight. Also requires a
>well
>
> sealing fuel cap to prevent fuel loss at the cap (that excludes Vans
>caps
> which are terrible). Conclusion: Popular solution but not without
>problems.
>
> 4. Electric fuel pump between tips and mains.
>
> Advantages: Fast fuel transfer. Control of flow. Disadvantages:
>Requires
> electric power to gain access to aux fuel. The pump introduces
>another
>
> failure point. If the mains are full when the pump is switched on
>then
>all
> the tip fuel will be pumped overboard. Conclusion: Unnecessarily
> complicated.
>
> 5. Straight feed between tips and mains. No check valve.
>
> Advantages: Completely outweighed by disadvantages. Disadvantages:
>No
>way to
> control fuel from feeding back into the tips while parked or in
>flight. If
> it occurs in flight it could result in fuel exhaustion. It could
>also
>result
> in an irretrievable spin if aerobatics attempted. Conclusion: Not
>practical
> as far as I can see.
>
> 6. Tips to mains through fuel selector. Calls for routing the tips
>fuel into
> the cabin to auxiliary selector(s) and then to the mains.
>
> Advantages: Virtually guaranteed fuel supply if correct selection
>made.
> Disadvantages: Additional fuel plumbing in wing and cabin.
>Additional
>fuel
> selectors which may present problems in terms of location, access
>and
> accidental movement of selector by pilot or passenger. Conclusion:
>Messy
> plumbing in cabin and fuel selectors everywhere.
>
> 7. One way electric solenoid. Fitted between tips and mains.
>
> Advantages: Complete control of fuel flow. Fuel can be retained in
>tips
> until mains reduced to avoid any possibility of fuel overflowing
>from
>mains
> vent or leaking fuel cap. Positive valve action will prevent fuel
>seeping
> back into the tips while plane parked. Disadvantages: Requires
>electric
> power to enable access to aux fuel. Relatively slow fuel transfer
>(but
>
> should exceed fuel flow required for 100% engine power). Conclusion:
>Not
> perfect, but might be best of the bunch.
>
> Have others had success with an electric solenoid. If so, what type
>of
>
> solenoid did you use. If you've had problems with this arrangement
>I'd
>like
> to know about that as well.
>
> careerone.com.au
>
>
Want 1c text 24/7? Click here for details
________________________________________________________________________________
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
| From: | "bdjones1965" <rv_8pilot(at)hotmail.com> |
Bruce(at)glasair.org wrote:
> Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at a
> salvage yard. --
Well, let me be more specific. Target those planes bounced around by high winds,
or a tornado. Maybe something crushed by a falling hangar.
All I know is that 4 people who I have flown with and who really do own and fly
RV's have had tremendous luck with engines from salvage operations.
As with almost every transaction in this life, caveat emptor. And don't think
there are no deals out there.
Bryan Jones RV-8 builder, owner, operator
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24924#24924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Magneto Timer: Credit where Credit is Due |
http://www.magnetotimer.com/
I'm another very satisfied customer. Can't beat the price, solder it up
yourself, works great!
)_( Dan
RV-7 N714D (842 hours)
http://www.rvproject.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net>
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 5:52 PM
Subject: RV-List: Magneto Timer: Credit where Credit is Due
>
>
> A few months ago, there were some posts about a home build timer kid.
> Well, I ordered the kid and over some time (too much flying) I managed to
> assemble the timer. Unfortunately only one side worked. After checking
> contacts and schematics, same dilemma. So I called the manufacturer and
> discussed the problem with Paul Brewington. He ask me to mail my unit to
> him and he would try to fix it. Well Paul not only fixed the timer in an
> expedited matter he even returned my cash I had enclosed for his trouble
> and the return postage.
>
> YES, there are still good vendors our there. Herewith I would like to
> recommend BREWINGTON TECHNOLOGY of Longview, TX! (Paul(at)magnetotimer.com
> or call (903)758 7490 and ask for Paul
>
> Lothar RV-6A, 600 hrs
>
> I have NO interest in Brewington Tech, just a very satisfied customer
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
Yep, crushed by a hangar door, rolled over by winds. The problem is that by
the time the savlage yard gets it the engine has been seperated from the
airframe and you have to take the yards word for the source of the engine.
You're better off bidding on the salvage directly with the insurance
companies. Here's a few links.
http://www.aigaviation.com/salvage/salvage_List.aspx
http://www.ladaviationinc.com/salvage/avaliable_salvage.htm
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdjones1965
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:15 PM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Looking for an engine
Bruce(at)glasair.org wrote:
> Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is at
a
> salvage yard. --
Well, let me be more specific. Target those planes bounced around by high
winds, or a tornado. Maybe something crushed by a falling hangar.
All I know is that 4 people who I have flown with and who really do own and
fly RV's have had tremendous luck with engines from salvage operations.
As with almost every transaction in this life, caveat emptor. And don't
think there are no deals out there.
Bryan Jones RV-8 builder, owner, operator
Houston
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=24924#24924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Scott Farner" <sfarner(at)gmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
I definitely echo the sentiment of caveat emptor, but there are some
reputable, at least in my experience, salvage yards out there.
I purchased a hurricane-damaged engine from Wentworth Aircraft last
September for my RV-7A with the intention of overauling it. They guaranteed
all of the expensive parts (crank, case, etc) to be within serviceable
condition. I believe this is true for all of the engines they sell unless
they specifically say that a part is bad. Anyway, after dissassembling it
and taking it to a machine shop, the crank was found not to be within
serviceable limits and the case had a seriously worn down main thrust face -
nothing that could be found without dissassembling the engine. After not
being able to find a replacement crankshaft, Wentworth refunded my money,
and even covered the cost of teardown and inspection - something they were
not liable for as their contract states that only the cost of the engine
will be refunded in this case. While not being happy about having to find
another engine, I was very happy with the way Wentworth handled the
situation and would not hesitate to deal with them again on my next project.
So I guess the moral of the story is if you are going to buy a salvage
engine, get a guarantee or warranty on the major parts, and if you are
worried about the source of the engine, ask the salvage yard for the
N-number of the aircraft that the engine came off of and contact the owner.
I was able to contact the owner who verified the information provided by
Wentworth. If they won't give or don't have the N-number, move on.
Scott Farner - former IO-360-A3B6D owner, current IO-390 owner (well in a
week or so)
www.scottfarner.com
RV-7A Wiring
Oh yes, and for completeness, I have no affiliation with Wentworth, just
satisfied with the way they do business.
On 3/28/06, Bruce Gray wrote:
>
>
> Yep, crushed by a hangar door, rolled over by winds. The problem is that
> by
> the time the savlage yard gets it the engine has been seperated from the
> airframe and you have to take the yards word for the source of the engine.
> You're better off bidding on the salvage directly with the insurance
> companies. Here's a few links.
>
> http://www.aigaviation.com/salvage/salvage_List.aspx
> http://www.ladaviationinc.com/salvage/avaliable_salvage.htm
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bdjones1965
> Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 9:15 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Looking for an engine
>
>
> Bruce(at)glasair.org wrote:
> > Unless you're real careful, the last place you want to buy an engine is
> at
> a
> > salvage yard. --
>
> Well, let me be more specific. Target those planes bounced around by high
> winds, or a tornado. Maybe something crushed by a falling hangar.
>
> All I know is that 4 people who I have flown with and who really do own
> and
> fly RV's have had tremendous luck with engines from salvage operations.
>
> As with almost every transaction in this life, caveat emptor. And don't
> think there are no deals out there.
>
> Bryan Jones RV-8 builder, owner, operator
> Houston
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=3D24924#24924
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> |
Cc: wmensink(at)ipapilot.org, rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com
| Subject: | fantastic website |
http://www.flyincalendar.com/
the best feature is the search feature - enter your airport, the maximum
distance you want to fly and the date range, and you get all the aviation
related fly-ins and such.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com> |
| Subject: | Tip tanks (more) |
I have Jon Johanson's tip tanks and have been following this discussion with
great interest. The change in the spin characteristics, even when empty,
does concern me, as does the fuel venting problems already discussed. I
haven't installed the tip tanks yet, and I still have the wingtips that came
with the kit so I still have options. I would NOT consider Jon's tanks as
"removable", although I'm sure some of you could remove and replace them
with regular wingtips, including the plumbing and wiring in a few hours if
you wanted. It would take me more like a week.
It would be helpful to me and others if you would let all of this discussion
go to the archives.
Thanks for all the great information, guys.
Terry
RV-8A #80729
Baffles
Seattle
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bob Barrow" <bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
Yes I am. At least an incipient spin...maybe even up to 2 turns.
I don't see that's it's practical to remove the tip tanks. The answer is to
keep them as light as absolutely possible. I know for a fact that some
home-built tip tanks end up weighing a ton...many builders don't even know
what their tip tanks weigh....they just keep slopping on the resin.
Standard Vans tips (one tip) are approximately 6.5 lb. Johanson tip tanks
vary but generally weigh between 11.0 and 12.5 lb (and they have no baffles
inside).
I certainly wouldn't want any fuel in the tips though...not a drop.
>Are you planning to test spin recovery with the tip tanks installed,
>but empty, during your test phase? I have a friend with home grown
>removable tip tanks on his RV4 - he said he removes them before
>doing any aerobatics. Perhaps this is an option with the Johanson
>tanks.
>
>--
>Mickey Coggins
>http://www.rv8.ch/
>#82007 finishing
>
Make your dream car a reality
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> |
I completed the first flight in N4032Q, an RV8A, yesterday at HEF, Manassas Regional
Airport. All went well except for a few glitches. I'll bet not many of
you have had to file an IFR flight plan for your first flights. Since HEF is
within the Washington DC ADIZ, I did. Controllers were, however, as helpful
as regulations would allow. I was able to remain in contact with the control
tower but still orbit the airport at 2,000 to 2,500 feet. It was somewhat stressful
to avoid going above 2,500 and into Dulles Airport's class B airspace but
it was nice to hear the tower advising arriving traffic I was there in case
they were thinking it was unimportant to get down to pattern altitude. It was
comforting to see HEF's long runways right below me. To stay within 2 miles,
I found I had to bank more steeply than my first flight test plan allowed as
I was breaking in a new engine and had decided to run at 2,500 rpm and 25 inches.
On takeoff, a strong left yaw and left roll defeated my intention to note my liftoff
airspeed. After landing I was astonished to see that I had rotated the
right main gear leg fairing well out of position even though I had marked the
correct position when I aligned them initially. The round gear legs of the 8A
made this possible & I would caution 8A builders to make this part of their final
check since it can require an uncomfortable amount of correction while flying.
I added a device for holding 25lb free weights to the aft baggage compartment shelf
per Gus Funnell's advice to make the initial flight with the CG in the center
of the allowable range. This proved to make control pressures feel a lot
like the 6A factory demonstrator I flew with Mike Seager to prepare for my first
flight.
Problems setting all the control parameters of my Grand Rapids EIS 4000 engine
monitor caused a spate of false warnings which made it difficult to know my power
setting. Each warning would replace the main display with one showing the
questionable engine parameter. Had I anticipated this, a backup gauge dedicated
to manifold pressure and RPM would have made this less of a problem. Engine
monitors with more capable displays would not present this problem. Or I could
have set most of the parameters to prevent warnings and brought them in to
play later one by one.
Well, that's pretty much it for lessons learned. My thanks to all you list folks.
Your ideas and experiences have been invaluable.
Dave Reel - RV8A - 1.2 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net> |
Congrats - I'm on the opposite side of the Chesapeake from you (N06) just starting
my firewall foreward.
If your flyoff area permits - stop on by....or we'll hope to see you after your
fly-off period.....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: DAVID REEL <dreel(at)cox.net>
>Sent: Mar 29, 2006 8:04 AM
>To: rvlist
>Subject: RV-List: N4032Q
>
>
>I completed the first flight in N4032Q, an RV8A, yesterday at HEF, Manassas Regional
Airport. All went well except for a few glitches. I'll bet not many of
you have had to file an IFR flight plan for your first flights. Since HEF is
within the Washington DC ADIZ, I did. Controllers were, however, as helpful
as regulations would allow. I was able to remain in contact with the control
tower but still orbit the airport at 2,000 to 2,500 feet. It was somewhat stressful
to avoid going above 2,500 and into Dulles Airport's class B airspace
but it was nice to hear the tower advising arriving traffic I was there in case
they were thinking it was unimportant to get down to pattern altitude. It was
comforting to see HEF's long runways right below me. To stay within 2 miles,
I found I had to bank more steeply than my first flight test plan allowed as
I was breaking in a new engine and had decided to run at 2,500 rpm and 25 inches.
>
>On takeoff, a strong left yaw and left roll defeated my intention to note my liftoff
airspeed. After landing I was astonished to see that I had rotated the
right main gear leg fairing well out of position even though I had marked the
correct position when I aligned them initially. The round gear legs of the 8A
made this possible & I would caution 8A builders to make this part of their
final check since it can require an uncomfortable amount of correction while flying.
>
>I added a device for holding 25lb free weights to the aft baggage compartment
shelf per Gus Funnell's advice to make the initial flight with the CG in the center
of the allowable range. This proved to make control pressures feel a lot
like the 6A factory demonstrator I flew with Mike Seager to prepare for my first
flight.
>
>Problems setting all the control parameters of my Grand Rapids EIS 4000 engine
monitor caused a spate of false warnings which made it difficult to know my power
setting. Each warning would replace the main display with one showing the
questionable engine parameter. Had I anticipated this, a backup gauge dedicated
to manifold pressure and RPM would have made this less of a problem. Engine
monitors with more capable displays would not present this problem. Or I
could have set most of the parameters to prevent warnings and brought them in
to play later one by one.
>
>Well, that's pretty much it for lessons learned. My thanks to all you list folks.
Your ideas and experiences have been invaluable.
>
>Dave Reel - RV8A - 1.2 hours
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org> |
| Subject: | Re: Looking for an engine |
My experiences with Wentworth have been similar. I bought a yellow tagged 3
inch FD (ADI) from them. Sent it to the manufacturer for inspection and was
told it was junk. I had a tough time but was successful in getting my money
back. I was still out shipping and inspection fees. Not a good experience.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Scott Farner
Sent: Tuesday, March 28, 2006 11:02 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Looking for an engine
I definitely echo the sentiment of caveat emptor, but there are some
reputable, at least in my experience, salvage yards out there.
I purchased a hurricane-damaged engine from Wentworth Aircraft last
September for my RV-7A with the intention of overauling it. They guaranteed
all of the expensive parts (crank, case, etc) to be within serviceable
condition. I believe this is true for all of the engines they sell unless
they specifically say that a part is bad. Anyway, after dissassembling it
and taking it to a machine shop, the crank was found not to be within
serviceable limits and the case had a seriously worn down main thrust face -
nothing that could be found without dissassembling the engine. After not
being able to find a replacement crankshaft, Wentworth refunded my money,
and even covered the cost of teardown and inspection - something they were
not liable for as their contract states that only the cost of the engine
will be refunded in this case. While not being happy about having to find
another engine, I was very happy with the way Wentworth handled the
situation and would not hesitate to deal with them again on my next project.
So I guess the moral of the story is if you are going to buy a salvage
engine, get a guarantee or warranty on the major parts, and if you are
worried about the source of the engine, ask the salvage yard for the
N-number of the aircraft that the engine came off of and contact the owner.
I was able to contact the owner who verified the information provided by
Wentworth. If they won't give or don't have the N-number, move on.
Scott Farner - former IO-360-A3B6D owner, current IO-390 owner (well in a
week or so)
www.scottfarner.com
RV-7A Wiring
Oh yes, and for completeness, I have no affiliation with Wentworth, just
satisfied with the way they do business.
________________________________________________________________________________
| From: | "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com> |
| Subject: | Re: Tip tanks (more) |
First off, Jon explicitly states no aerobatics in his instructions.
He also states that the plane must be placarded against spins
if there is ANY fuel in the tip tanks. That's enough to convince
me to adhere to those instructions. I've intentionally spun my RV
during the test period (without tip tanks) and agree with Van's
observations that the RV6 (with the old vertical stab & rudder)
does not recover well (once established - might take 6 turns -
it took over three turns to recover...). Adding ANY weight to the
wing tip area will only make that recovery worst. I agree that
this includes the additional weight of an empty tip tank.
That said, it doesn't mean that adding the weight of extra fuel
to the wing tips for NORMAL flight condition, is dangerous. The
issue is the KNOW what the operational limitations are under
those condition, and to stay away from those limits. I'm
satisfied that the operational characteristics and limitations of
the RV6 with wing tanks is safe. And I don't plan on spinning the
aircraft intentionally. And knowing the limitations, I plan on staying
away from conditions that might induce a spin....
The original issue of these posts was to get information about
any venting issues from those flying their aircraft. To date, I've
only got feedback from one individual whose flying aircraft
experience a problem with draining the tip tanks while in flight.
He was able to modify the main tank vent slightly (from a 45*
angle into the airflow to a 30* angle) and demonstrate proper
operation. There has been no other flying aircraft (with tip
tanks) feedback...
So far, I'm the only flying aircraft (on the list) that has had the
opposite
problem - venting fuel out the main tank vents because of excessive
tip tank vent pressure relative to the main tank vent pressure.
I'm not comfortable with the dual vent design. I'm planning on
modifying that design (one side at a time) this weekend to a
single tip tank vent for both tanks. This will require the removal
of the check valve (& replacing it with a union) and capping off
the existing main tank vent. From an operational point, this
approach will always require the operator to fill the main tank
prior to adding any fuel to the tip tanks.
I'll keep the list informed of my progress and test results....
Fred Stucklen
RV-6A N926RV
bobbarrow10(at)hotmail.com>
Hi Fred, thanks for your comments. I actually received quite a lot of
replies to my post but for some reason people chose to email me
directly. I
appreciated all of the comments but I would ask people to respond
through
this forum because it enables everyone to gain benefit from the
diversity of
opinion and experience.
In terms of your specific direction re straight feed. There are a
number of
reasons I feel reluctant to go that way but I will raise just one.
The ability of the RV to recover from a spin depends primarily on the
capacity of the rudders' authority to overcome the moment of the
spinning
wings. And because moment is lever arm multiplied by mass it therefore
stand
to reason that even a small increase in mass at the wing tips will
grossly
increase the moment. For a start all tip tanks will add at least 6 lbs
over
the weight of standard tips (dry weight). That alone may influence
spin
recovery.
Any additional mass in the form of fuel in the tips (extra 1kg per
litre
approx) could prove fatal in a spin....even a very small quantity (say
just
3 or 4 litres) may lead to an unrecoverable spin. On the other hand it
may
not...it might take 10 litres...but I for one will not be the test
pilot
finding out where the limit is.
So I would say that it would be very prudent not to get into a spin
with any
fuel whatsoever in the tips. And the straight feed solution can never
guarantee that the tips are completely empty. So aerobatics would be
out of
the question...firstly because they would guarantee that fuel would
run to
the tips...and secondly because it greatly increases the chances of an
March 12, 2006 - March 29, 2006
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