Can anyone comment on this type of ring gear wear pattern as to whether it is normal
or do I have a problem developing? Also, it possible that my starter could
have the wrong tooth size for the ring gear and have been operating reasonably
well for this many hours?
Appreciate any thoughts on this.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
ronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
k" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://forums.matronics.com
"return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
http://wiki.matronics.com
-Matt Dralle, List Admin.
_blank" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
==========
Thanks Bob, I appreciate the info.
-- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
This is a problem I've seen with Sky-Tec starters
on at least three occasions, not enough ring gear engagement. If you call
them of course it won't be their fault. Once you can't get the thing
to crank over the first compression, then they'll blame the engine manufacturer,
then your wiring, your battery, your solenoid, your mother, etc. I used
to poo-poo B&C's because of the cost until I did some horsetrading and
got one on a trade. Now without question I believe that it is the best starter,
with the new Sky-Tec high-torque starter in close second. They're
both about the same price ($550). The B&C is geared slightly taller which
helps it overcome the first compression stroke with ease, just a little bit
better (but slower) than the high-torque inline start
er fro
m Sky-Tec, but not by much. A friend and I did testing on his F1 of three
different starters (Sky-Tec Flyweight, my B&C, and the Sky-Tec high torque
model). The Flyweight's planetary gearing (which is plastic!) can only
be rebuilt by them; as far as cranking performance goes it was in dead-last place.
One big advantage of the B&C is that it is rebuildable by your
local starter shop. I rebuilt the used one I got to like new condition
for $38.00. BTW the better two of the three starters fully engaged
the ring gear.
I have about 255 hours total time on my factory new O-360A1A and have noticed
that the wear pattern on the flywheel ring gear looks as if the starter gear
is engaging only about the top 1/16 inch or less of each ring gear tooth.
Also it looks as if the teeth on the ring gear are wearing slightly rounded,
with slightly more wear on the aft part. The engine was delivered from
Van's with a Sky-Tec starter that otherwise seems to work great and really
spins up the engine on startup.
Can anyone comment on this type of ring gear wear pattern as to whether it
is normal or do I have a problem developing? Also, it possible that my
starter could have the wrong tooth size for the ring gear and have been operating
reasonably well for this many hours?
All, yesterday as I attempted to start up the IO-360 in my RV-8A, the
engine "kicked back" and broke something in the starter, which is a
Sky Tec Flyweight 149-12LS.
When I say "broke something" I mean it actually broke off the cast
metal nose of the starter, exposing the pinion gear.
Any thoughts on what could cause the kick-backs? This is the second
time I've had a problem with this starter - sent it back for repairs about
200 hours ago - it was almost new then, and the factory covered the
repair cost.
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject:
Engine Kick-Back IO-360
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
If you have an electronic ignition, your voltage drop when you engage the
starter may be causing timing problems. If you have a standard magneto
ignition system then you should check your impulse coupling and mag timing.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 9:41 AM
Subject: RV-List: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
All, yesterday as I attempted to start up the IO-360 in my RV-8A, the
engine "kicked back" and broke something in the starter, which is a
Sky Tec Flyweight 149-12LS.
When I say "broke something" I mean it actually broke off the cast
metal nose of the starter, exposing the pinion gear.
Any thoughts on what could cause the kick-backs? This is the second
time I've had a problem with this starter - sent it back for repairs about
200 hours ago - it was almost new then, and the factory covered the
repair cost.
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
On 26 Aug 2006, at 09:41, rveighta wrote:
>
> All, yesterday as I attempted to start up the IO-360 in my RV-8A, the
> engine "kicked back" and broke something in the starter, which is a
> Sky Tec Flyweight 149-12LS.
>
> When I say "broke something" I mean it actually broke off the cast
> metal nose of the starter, exposing the pinion gear.
>
> Any thoughts on what could cause the kick-backs? This is the second
> time I've had a problem with this starter - sent it back for
> repairs about
> 200 hours ago - it was almost new then, and the factory covered the
> repair cost.
What type of ignition system? I've heard of some electronic ignition
systems that misbehave when the voltage goes low during start. The
permanent magnet SkyTec starters apparently pull more current than
some other starters, and thus drag the system voltage lower.
Possible solutions, if this is the problem:
1. Leave the EI off until after start,
2. Ensure the EI is wired so it gets its power close to the battery.
There will be a large voltage drop between the battery and the
starter, and it would be bad to pull the EI power from a location
that is subject to some or all of that voltage drop.
3. Reduce the resistance of the starter power feed (larger diameter
cable, clean up connections etc).
4. Battery with more capacity and/or lower internal resistance so it
provides higher voltage during starting.
5. Different starter. I've seen one report where going to a B&C
starter stopped the kickback problem.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
From:
Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
Walt,
You are not the first person to experience this. My Stytec flyweight
did the same thing on me at about 70 hours. Skytec likes to blame
electronic ignitions for this problem, but the electronic ignition
manufacturers have a different take on it.
What ignition, battery and prop are you using? If you have a smaller
battery (Odyssey, Panasonic) and a light prop (wood, composite) than you
are set up for failure. Permanent magnet motors (like the Skytec) have
much higher current draw than a wound-field motor. Combine the high
current draw with the low current capabilities of a small battery and
the lack of flywheel effect from a light prop, and you've set the stage
for starting problems.
In my case, a switch to a B&C wound field starter solved my problems.
It spins the engine so fact I can almost get the tail up on starter
power alone, Ok, not quite. In fairness, Skytec does sell a wound
field starter as well, but I'm a big fan of B&C.
There's plenty about this in the archives. Search on my name and
"Skytec" around August 2004.
Jeff Point
RV-6 flying
RV-8 preview plans
Milwaukee
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
From:
Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
>Klaus issued a service bulletin ( 1/05 ) regarding "kickbacks".It notes
>that the PM starters draw very high current which drops the voltage
>available to the LSE ignition system. If the voltage drops below 8.5 volts
>the LSE is disabled and kickbacks can occur. The system needs at least 8.5
>volts during the starting phase.
>
I have a carbureted O-360, Aymar Demuth wood prop, LSE III ignition
and Odyssey PC 680 battery. During one annual my A&P measured the
voltage at several points during a short cranking cycle. There was a
significant voltage drop (don't remember the number) so I went to a
larger cable to the starter, changed to the correct starter solenoid
and put in the PC 925 battery. I also think my starter is a Sky Tec LS
something.
Where before the prop would often stop on a compression stroke
(assumption) it swings right through now. I had perhaps 700 hours
on the previous deficient setup with no kickbacks. At least not one
that caused any problem. I am not sure that I have even experienced
a kickback.
I may make the LSE voltage mod if I am down for something else
in the future for additional protection.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject:
Engine Kick-Back IO-360
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
This is directly from Lightspeed Engineering's website today.
Terry
KICKBACKS
Date of Issue: 01/2005
There are many possible reasons the engine can misfire during start. Several
AD's have been issued over the years regarding impulse coupling problems on
magnetos. Additionally, cold oil can prevent proper functioning of the
impulse coupling. Cross firing in the distributor section of the mag can
also be the cause for uncontrolled spark timing of the magneto. So if you
still have a magneto on one side, be sure the mag is in good shape and up to
date to avoid misfiring.
Some time ago we received reports of kickbacks during start on airplanes
with dual Plasma CD Ignitions. Extensive investigation showed that they
were all using permanent magnet type starters. This type of starter
typically draws much higher current than field wound starters. The
installation manual for one of the main PM starter manufacturers advises
that a 45% larger battery output is required! This, of course, eliminates
any advertised weight savings but the bigger problem occurs when the engine
owner is not aware of these requirements.
If the battery is too small, the electrical system voltage can collapse when
the starter tries to turn the engine over compression. This can temporarily
disable the ignition system if the voltage drops to less than 8.5 volts.
Other ignition systems go off line when the supply voltage drops below 10.3
volts. The Plasma CDI will operate safely down to about 5 volts once the
engine is running but it needs 8.5 volts to start.
The best way to prevent any problems is to install an appropriate size
battery and cables to carry the actual load. If the electrical system is
robust, the voltage dips during cranking should not go below 10 volts. This
also keeps the Plasma CDI happy.
To help avoid any kick backs that might be caused by low voltage of a
compromised electrical system, we have made further improvements to the
design that now allows the Plasma CDI to operate reliably down to 6.5 volts!
The Plasma CDI's new extreme low voltage capability provides a larger safety
margin (more time) in case of an alternator failure. It also allows
starting by hand when the battery is too low to turn the starter. This
modification to lower the minimum voltage even further will be incorporated
into all Plasma CDI systems beginning spring 2005 and can be incorporated
into older systems if requested. Systems having this modification are
labeled "Version PMS" (this stands for "Permanent Magnet Starter", of
course), "U3+" or "A" after the serial number.
There have been no reports of kickbacks with the B&C starters, which are all
wound field types and draw substantially less current.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
Subject:
First flight N176LD
Listers--My airplane partner David White and I have been on this list since
Fall 1999 when we started our RV-6 project. Today she flew for the first
time.
Total build time was 6,000+ man hours over almost seven years.
She's a semi-quick-build (quick-build fuselage, slow-build everything else)
with the tall fin and counterbalanced rudder.
She has a new 0-360 A1A and Hartzell blended airfoil CS prop (both from
Van's) and regular magnetos. Equipment includes S-Tec 30 two-axis autopilot,
standby electric attitude indicator, Gretz heated pitot and alternate static,
VM
1000 engine monitor, Garmin 430 with GPSS steering, dual brakes. All
antennas are external. We intend to fly her IFR.
Paint is Imron three colors (painted at home). Empty weight is 1149 lbs at
station 71.
Mods include oil cooler on firewall with homemade fiberglass intake shroud,
servo- operated landing light tilt in right wing, Meske (Aircraft Extras.com)
tip-up/slider mod, Meske (Aircraft Extras.com) optical low fuel warning
lights, tailwheel fairing..
We would like to thank Rich Meske, engineer extraordinaire, and Daryl Green,
RV craftsman extraordinaire, for all their help and advice, and our tech
counselor Jim Baldwin, and our supportive spouses and sweethearts, without whom
this project could not have been completed.
Flew her today without gear fairings for engine break-in. No heavy wing,
she flies straight with a little right rudder. Looks like we will need to add
that rudder tab.
A few weeks ago we did six hours of dual with Alex De Dominicis
(RVtraining.com) and highly recommend this to those about to take their first
flights.
We have learned a lot from this list and want to thank all who have
contributed their thoughts over the years.
Her name is Esperanza.
For those still building, keep pounding those rivets! It's worth it!
LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
Subject:
Tire Wear
Over time, do RV main tires wear more on the outside or the inside treads?
Pete
RV-6, 123 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
From:
Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Rant mode on; drinkers of the 'Van's can do no wrong' koolaid, please
stop & delete now.
Several weeks (months?) ago I built up all the fuselage bulkheads
including the main spar carry-thru for my -7 kit. I carefully followed
all the directions/drawing indications I could find, especially on the
spar carrythru bulkhead. I noted & carefully followed the exploded views
on dwg 11 (rev 10-16-00) & later, dwg 22 (rev 10-27-00) showing the
bolts for the F633 L&R control brackets & all the F716 seat ribs with
the heads to the rear, threads forward.
I built up the tail cone. I completed the prep work for final assy of
the midsection. I began the riveting of the midsection several days ago
& today, neared completion of the riveting.
While studying dwg 22 section views to determine the orientation of the
bolts through the F715 seat ribs, I noticed that they show nuts on the
rib flange of all the F716 seat ribs where they bolt to the F704 spar
carry-thru. 'Curses; must have not been paying attention when I bolted
this stuff together.' (Bad medium term memory of earlier careful study
of plans.) Out came the wrenches, re-oriented all the F716 bolts,
retorqued. Happened to glance at the exploded view on the same dwg. All
rib bolts drawn with head on the rib flange. I checked dwg 11 exploded
view for the F633 bolts; it's inconsistent with the section view on dwg
22 also. Errors/inconsistencies #742 & 743 (guesstimate :-) ) noted in
the plans and/or instructions. By the way, this same section in the
instructions tells you to cleco in & drill the seat & baggage floors
without telling you to install the baggage ribs at all & before they
mention installing the F715 seat ribs, which must be curved by the
builder, have centerlines drawn on their bottom flanges (not
prepunched), & be match drilled to the belly skin. My revision of dwg
shows the control stick walking beam assy to the spar with bolts
oriented in a fashion that cannot be achieved under the current laws of
physics. When I called about that, the tech guy had different
orientation for some of the bolts, on his dwg with the same revision
date. Excuse: 'Well, sometimes minor changes are made without changing
the rev date/number.' His 1st suggested change also could not be
achieved under the current laws of physics. The final result was
basically, 'assemble it however you can to get it to work.'
I've lost count of the number of times I've called the tech guys at
Van's to politely question or point out this kind of stuff & asked
repeatedly why they don't offer a section of the website with
corrections & updates. They are usually courteous, but I invariably get
various lame excuses like 'you should read ahead', you should know how
it's done', 'well, when we built the prototype, we didn't have the
instructions', etc etc etc. Sometimes they say they will bring up the
issue 'at a staff meeting' but rarely if ever do they act like the
issues are any big deal. Never is there any feedback or encouragement to
continue reporting this stuff & with a single exception (defective AL
bar stock) never an admission that others have had the same issue.
Ok, rant mode off.
Question: should I care which way the F716 bolts are oriented (currently
head forward, nut/washer on rib) or the F633 bolts (currently head on
F633)? The belly skin rivets under the F716 bolts will be less
convenient to drive, but still 'doable'.
Suggestion:
We all take advantage of Matt's wiki to add a section for each model &
sub sections for each assy or part that we have problems understanding
or that are obvious errors/inconsistencies. The entries should document
the plan revision date and/or the instruction revision date. This should
help us all by consolidating records of problem areas, something Van's
is obviously unwilling to do.
Is this a worthwhile suggestion?
(Again, koolaid drinkers please don't reply.)
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Tire Wear
Date:
Aug 26, 2006
I'm sure it varies from aircraft to aircraft.
On my RV-6, I get more wear on the outside of the tires, because I
typically fly at lighter weights, which doesn't flex the gear as much
and causes.... wear on the outside of the tire. Someone who operates a
heavy aircraft will flex the gear more, and will have more wear towards
the inside of the tire.
My biggest wear area is on the right tire, because I still have not
learned how to keep from occasionally dragging the right brake on
takeoff.
KB
----- Original Message -----
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
To: rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com ; RV6-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Saturday, August 26, 2006 10:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Tire Wear
Over time, do RV main tires wear more on the outside or the inside
treads?
Pete
RV-6, 123 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Tire Wear
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Pete:
Yes they wear more on the outside.
Left tire wears the most on the outside. (P-factor and need for right
rudder on full power takeoff)
Rotate tires when 1/2 worn out to get the most landing out of your tires.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,936 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
http://SoCAL_WVAF.rvproject.com
----Original Message Follows----
From: PeterHunt1(at)aol.com
Subject: RV-List: Tire Wear
Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:54:28 EDT
Over time, do RV main tires wear more on the outside or the inside treads?
Pete
RV-6, 123 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
In a message dated 8/26/2006 10:59:14 PM Eastern Standard Time,
ceengland(at)bellsouth.net writes:
Is this a worthwhile suggestion?
(Again, koolaid drinkers please don't reply.)
Thanks,
Charlie
========================================
It sure is Charlie!
As one person said: "PSS Van does not do to much wrong when it comes to the
RV's. :-)"
How little is wrong does not matter or count when you spend hours or days
working on something only to find it cannot be built or fit together the way it
was drawn or described. It is still wrong.
I really like RV's and there are less problems with RV's than GA planes.
But, get frustrated because of a 'wrong' and then tell me you want to kiss Van.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: Tire Wear
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Hi Pete-
Re: Over time, do RV main tires wear more on the outside or the inside
treads?
Yes, they do. Crosswind landings made in a slip put wear on the outboard
edges of tires. The same principle applies to all aircraft.
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Kick Back - More Info
Guys, thanks all of you who answered my query about a kick back problem
with my IO-360. I should have included info about the battery and ignition
system. I don't have an electronic ignition system, just two mags, the left is
equipped with the standard impulse coupler. I have a new Concord 25RG-XC
battery that is fully charged. When starting, I always flip on both mags.
I have recently been experiencing start problems where the engine will fire
on a cylinder or two for a few seconds, then gradually on all four. Sound like
a impulse coupler problem?
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Plasma III Ignitions have been modified to run down to 6.5V during start
from the previous 8.5V.
If you have a plasma Ign go to their website and see which serial number
have the mod. You can
also send your module back and get it changed to accept as low as 6.5V
during start up for $100.
Changing starters is not always possible as I found out. I originally
wanted to use the B&C and do believe
they are better than Skytek. But I also have Precision Airmotive fuel
injection which would interfere with
the mixture control on the FI. In addition my engine is horizontal
induction and the fiberglass ducting from
Van's needs a ton of modifications to clear the B&C. Its built to go around
the Skytek 12LS.
Steve
RV7A
Flying, IO-360, Plasma III, 1 Mag
> From: rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
> Subject: RV-List: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
>
>
> All, yesterday as I attempted to start up the IO-360 in my RV-8A, the
> engine "kicked back" and broke something in the starter, which is a
> Sky Tec Flyweight 149-12LS.
>
> When I say "broke something" I mean it actually broke off the cast
> metal nose of the starter, exposing the pinion gear.
>
> Any thoughts on what could cause the kick-backs? This is the second
> time I've had a problem with this starter - sent it back for repairs about
> 200 hours ago - it was almost new then, and the factory covered the
> repair cost.
>
> Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
In a message dated 8/26/2006 4:26:39 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
mkejrj(at)comcast.net writes:
I spoke with Klaus @ OSH regarding the "kickback" potential of my LSE Plasma
III installed on my Superior I0 360. I also have the SkyTek starter.
Klaus issued a service bulletin ( 1/05 ) regarding "kickbacks".It notes that
the PM starters draw very high current which drops the voltage available to
the LSE ignition system. If the voltage drops below 8.5 volts the LSE is
disabled and kickbacks can occur. The system needs at least 8.5 volts during the
starting phase.
LSE can modify your system if you return same to him. I believe the cost is
about $ 100.00. The mod allows the LSE to operate as low as 6.5 volts.
Dick Jordan
N888BZ RV 8A/flying
Interesting! I worked in ignition system design for GM for 15 years. We
always had to meet a 4.5 volt, 30 RPM cranking test. Yes, a low battery on a
GM car can dip to 4.5 volts and the ignition system has to stay in sync and
deliver a spark. It seems to me like a design defect, and LSE should do the
fix for no charge.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject:
Kick Back - More Info
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Walt,
Unless both your mags have impulse couplings then you should start your
engine with the impulse mag on and the non impulse mag OFF. Once the engine
is running, turn on the other mag.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of rveighta
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:54 AM
Subject: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
Guys, thanks all of you who answered my query about a kick back problem
with my IO-360. I should have included info about the battery and ignition
system. I don't have an electronic ignition system, just two mags, the left
is
equipped with the standard impulse coupler. I have a new Concord 25RG-XC
battery that is fully charged. When starting, I always flip on both mags.
I have recently been experiencing start problems where the engine will fire
on a cylinder or two for a few seconds, then gradually on all four. Sound
like
a impulse coupler problem?
Walt Shipley
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
FYI, I started a database of "errors" (or at least, shall we say,
"clarifications" as people reported them over the years. Oddly, though, I
really don't have that many. If folks have specifics, please e-mail them to
me at bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net (or if you're subscribed, just add it
yourself at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV7A/database) and perhaps we can
make it easier on those who are to follow.
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn
RV Builder's Hotline free weekly newsletter
http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Olson
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 10:11 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
> plans/drawings
>
>
>
> I would suggest that the comments regarding laxity in
> accuracy of the plans and laxity of notifications of
> revisions, and items like those quoted are valid concerns.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Kick Back - More Info
Walt, the impulse will disengage at a couple of hundred RPM if I recall.
When it fires the first time or second time may be enough to get past
that. At that speed though, you could turn on the right mag (because
you're starting on the left only now aren't you???) and see if it helps.
A good plug cleaning and leaning on the ground may help also. What you
might have is not enough primer so I would experiment there. While the
engine is cranking, give the primer a push and see if that doesn't speed
things up a bit.
Linn
rveighta wrote:
>
>Guys, thanks all of you who answered my query about a kick back problem
>with my IO-360. I should have included info about the battery and ignition
>system. I don't have an electronic ignition system, just two mags, the left is
>equipped with the standard impulse coupler. I have a new Concord 25RG-XC
>battery that is fully charged. When starting, I always flip on both mags.
>
>I have recently been experiencing start problems where the engine will fire
>on a cylinder or two for a few seconds, then gradually on all four. Sound like
>a impulse coupler problem?
>
>Walt Shipley
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
Re: Kick Back - More Info
rveighta wrote:
>Sound like a impulse coupler problem?
>
>
No, it sounds like the non-impulse coupled mag is firing before TDC
(like it should) during starting. The purpose of the IC is to slow the
mag down so it fires right at TDC during the starting process. When the
engine is running, there is enough speed and inertia that firing at 28
BTDC is desireable. Duirng starting, when the engine is running so
slowly, if the non-IC mag fires at 28 BDTC, it is likely to cause a
kickback.
Try leaving the non-IC mag off during starting. If you have a
keyswitch, make sure it's wired properly to ground (turn off) the non-IC
mag at the START position.
Jeff Point
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Kick Back - More Info
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
I'm very close to wiring my plane and would like to know how to wire the
ignition key switch. I have an AeroSport IO360 with one "mag", and one
Lightspeed Electronic Ignition. It seems that the forum is suggesting that
I wire the key switch so that in the "start" position only the Mag is
firing, but upon releasing the key switch from start to both, that then both
the mag and the Lightspeed are firing. Is this correct?
Garry Stout
RV7A Odessa Fl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
> rveighta wrote:
>
>>Sound like a impulse coupler problem?
>>
> No, it sounds like the non-impulse coupled mag is firing before TDC (like
> it should) during starting. The purpose of the IC is to slow the mag down
> so it fires right at TDC during the starting process. When the engine is
> running, there is enough speed and inertia that firing at 28 BTDC is
> desireable. Duirng starting, when the engine is running so slowly, if the
> non-IC mag fires at 28 BDTC, it is likely to cause a kickback.
>
> Try leaving the non-IC mag off during starting. If you have a keyswitch,
> make sure it's wired properly to ground (turn off) the non-IC mag at the
> START position.
>
> Jeff Point
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Cylinders: ECI vs Superior or Others
I'm looking for decision support To all the Engine
Gurus and Roll your own engine builders out there,
which is the cylinder kit to by in todays market. So
many things are changing. It seems like everyday
products are being improved and or modified in some
way. I will not be going with standard compression
pistons and have not settled on the type of pistons or
the ratio yet. I would like to discuss overall
quality, casting, manufacturing methods etc... Which
will require a port clean up? Who's cleaned up their
fins from casing issues? Is anyone using a cryogenic
process on wear parts? Etc... Any information or
advice is appreciated.
Thanks in advance!
__________________
Darrell Reiley
RV7A "Reiley Rocket"
N622DR Reserved
CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject:
Rant, question, etc
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
I read with interest the comments in this thread. I built my RV6A
starting in 1991 so your quick builders, pre-punched, matched-hole
RV'ers don't have a clue as to problems with plans. Yet, it got built
and I am happy, but I had a lot of bad days struggling with
"instructions" and drawings.
Keep punching away, you don't know how easy you have it!
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject:
Kick Back - More Info
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
No, you want to start the engine with the EI ON and the mag OFF.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:05 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
I'm very close to wiring my plane and would like to know how to wire the
ignition key switch. I have an AeroSport IO360 with one "mag", and one
Lightspeed Electronic Ignition. It seems that the forum is suggesting that
I wire the key switch so that in the "start" position only the Mag is
firing, but upon releasing the key switch from start to both, that then both
the mag and the Lightspeed are firing. Is this correct?
Garry Stout
RV7A Odessa Fl
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:29 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
> rveighta wrote:
>
>>Sound like a impulse coupler problem?
>>
> No, it sounds like the non-impulse coupled mag is firing before TDC (like
> it should) during starting. The purpose of the IC is to slow the mag down
> so it fires right at TDC during the starting process. When the engine is
> running, there is enough speed and inertia that firing at 28 BTDC is
> desireable. Duirng starting, when the engine is running so slowly, if the
> non-IC mag fires at 28 BDTC, it is likely to cause a kickback.
>
> Try leaving the non-IC mag off during starting. If you have a keyswitch,
> make sure it's wired properly to ground (turn off) the non-IC mag at the
> START position.
>
> Jeff Point
>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
PGLong(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Subject:
Weight & Balance
After removing the vacuum system, pump and instruments, and adding an
autopilot, I want to re-weigh and do a weight & balance on my RV-4. Is it feasable
to top off the fuel tanks, assume a 32 gallon load and then reverse the fuel
arm and weight to arrive at the gross aircraft weight? Part of my brain says
that won't work correctly. Any thoughts?
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject:
Re: Weight & Balance
At 03:41 PM 8/27/2006, you wrote:
>After removing the vacuum system, pump and instruments, and adding an
>autopilot, I want to re-weigh and do a weight & balance on my RV-4. Is it
>feasable to top off the fuel tanks, assume a 32 gallon load and then
>reverse the fuel arm and weight to arrive at the gross aircraft weight?
>Part of my brain says that won't work correctly. Any thoughts?
If you can weigh it empty then add the weight of 32 gallons at its arm, why
not?
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: Weight & Balance
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
On 27 Aug 2006, at 17:41, PGLong(at)aol.com wrote:
> After removing the vacuum system, pump and instruments, and adding
> an autopilot, I want to re-weigh and do a weight & balance on my
> RV-4. Is it feasable to top off the fuel tanks, assume a 32 gallon
> load and then reverse the fuel arm and weight to arrive at the
> gross aircraft weight? Part of my brain says that won't work
> correctly. Any thoughts?
>
> Pat Long
> PGLong(at)aol.com
> N120PL
> RV4
> Bay City, Michigan
> 3CM
>
This will work, if you have already confirmed that you have 32 USG
usable fuel load. The number from Van's is only the nominal value.
Every aircraft is slightly different.
But, if you subtract the fuel, you'll get an empty weight, not the
gross weight, right?
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Weight & Balance
From:
"PGLong" <PGLong(at)aol.com>
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Right, empty weight. There is just enough grey area, guess I'll wait till I'm light
enough on fuel to have storage for the balance. Didn't want to do that, but
it is the correct and safer way.
Pat
--------
Pat Long
RV-4, N120PL
Bay City, MI
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=57841#57841
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
MLWynn(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
I was struck, when starting my -8 with the empennage, just how simple and
straightforward the plans and instructions were. Nice little check boxes for
each step. Then I got the wing kit. The wing is much more complex and the
instructions are much less exacting. Like where it discusses how to rivet the
bottom skins. Then, the next page talks about what to do before you put on
the bottom skins and then the next page goes back to how to put on the bottom
skins.
I suppose the truth is that I learned enough from the empennage to sort out
how to do most of the wing--with a lot of help from the online community and a
few questions to Van's. My guess is that the online community would
probably be happy to re-write the assembly manual given the opportunity.
Anyway, most the kit and plans are pretty straightforward. I would be
happier if I had a bunch more pages of little check boxes. I am clearly an
assembler and not an engineer. I think the second RV would be a lot easier.
I
suppose Van's has other stuff to do, but I think they would sell even more kits
if all the instructions were as well documented as the empennage
instructions.
Regards,
Michael Wynn (Ginger ale drinker)
RV-8, Wings
San Ramon, California
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"gordon or marge" <gcomfo(at)tc3net.com>
Subject:
Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:37 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Why should I be forced
to guess his intent when I paid good money for a kit & instructions
instead of a truckload of ore?
I've had quite a few conversations with Van's various tech guys offering
what I consider constructive suggestions that could improve the kits at
minimal expense & radically reduce phone time for them.
Charlie et al:
It might be helpful to think of the builders manual as an outline to direct
your own thought processes. A manual sufficiently detailed to satisfy
everyone would be impractical. One needs to think through the tasks and the
builders manual will help you do that but it will not do it for you. Time
spent trying to improve Van's perceived performance could be spent solving
problems using any and all resources that can be found. The literature has
many volumes describing standard practices, techniques methods and goals
that have been a part of aircraft manufacture for decades. These projects
are part of a learning process we can strive for. The ensueing self
reliance can be gratifying.
Gordon Comfort
N363GC
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
First flight N176LD
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
LeRoy and David,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
>Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: First flight N176LD
>Date: Sat, 26 Aug 2006 22:26:44 EDT
>
>
>Listers--My airplane partner David White and I have been on this list
>since
>Fall 1999 when we started our RV-6 project. Today she flew for the first
>time.
>LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
gordon or marge wrote:
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charlie England
>Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:37 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: Re: RV-List: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
>
> Why should I be forced
>to guess his intent when I paid good money for a kit & instructions
>instead of a truckload of ore?
>
>I've had quite a few conversations with Van's various tech guys offering
>what I consider constructive suggestions that could improve the kits at
>minimal expense & radically reduce phone time for them.
>
>
>Charlie et al:
>
>It might be helpful to think of the builders manual as an outline to direct
>your own thought processes. A manual sufficiently detailed to satisfy
>everyone would be impractical. One needs to think through the tasks and the
>builders manual will help you do that but it will not do it for you. Time
>spent trying to improve Van's perceived performance could be spent solving
>problems using any and all resources that can be found. The literature has
>many volumes describing standard practices, techniques methods and goals
>that have been a part of aircraft manufacture for decades. These projects
>are part of a learning process we can strive for. The ensueing self
>reliance can be gratifying.
>
>Gordon Comfort
>N363GC
>
You're not fooling me, Gordon; I can smell the koolaid on your breath. :-)
I think that you're missing the point. If I wanted the raw 'mine the
ore' experience, I could buy a set of plans for a -6 (or a crashed plane
to build around the serial #), a Mustang II or a Thorp T-18 & start
pounding metal. (Yes, there are scratch built -4's & -6's out there.)
Please explain what value, other than long suffering & patience, I can
take from spending 20 hours inventorying parts when the job could be
done in 2 hours with a pick list sorted by part #.
I paid a premium for a prepunched kit, the instructions to assemble it,
and the support of the kit seller. Van's A/C understands their market
well enough to continue adding features (along with price) like
prepunch, FWF kits, etc. In the past they have incorporated many
features in the kits that were dreamed up by builders & flyers. It's
unfortunate that they cannot or will not recognize that the kits could
be significantly improved and the need for factory support minimized
with a little attention to their documents.
I really don't want to just rant; I'd like to try for a solution. That's
why I'm proposing that we do this ourselves.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
Paul Trotter <ptrotter(at)acm.org>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
In general, I think that Van's has designed excellent aircraft and their
kits are great. But in some respects the instructions could be a little
better. Yes, we should be able to extrapolate from the drawings and
instructions to figure out what we should be doing, but when there are
specific instructions or drawings for an operation, we should be able to
rely on them. It is not that the instructions need to be expanded, it is
that those that are there should be correct. Any incorrect or contradictory
instructions should be fixed. This is not hard, as I'm sure that Van's has
been apprised of the errors by many people. Also, we should not have to
worry about following the instructions and doing something only to find out
later that something else should have been done first. Reading ahead in the
instructions is a good idea, but they should be in the proper order anyway.
I'm having a great time building my 8, but sometimes it is frustrating
trying to figure out what to do when the instructions and drawing are
unclear or contradict each other.
The instructions that are provided, at whatever level of detail that Van's
feels are necessary, should be accurate. It would take very little effort
to create a section on their website with corrections to the instructions
and drawings. For anything beyond that, I feel that these forums and email
lists are a great resource.
Paul Trotter
RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit
>
> Charlie et al:
>
> It might be helpful to think of the builders manual as an outline to
> direct
> your own thought processes. A manual sufficiently detailed to satisfy
> everyone would be impractical. One needs to think through the tasks and
> the
> builders manual will help you do that but it will not do it for you. Time
> spent trying to improve Van's perceived performance could be spent solving
> problems using any and all resources that can be found. The literature
> has
> many volumes describing standard practices, techniques methods and goals
> that have been a part of aircraft manufacture for decades. These projects
> are part of a learning process we can strive for. The ensueing self
> reliance can be gratifying.
>
> Gordon Comfort
> N363GC
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
From:
Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
It's
unfortunate that they cannot or will not recognize
that the kits could
be significantly improved and the need for factory
support minimized
with a little attention to their documents.
Charlie,
I understand where you're coming from. It has been a
few years since Van himself decided to make the
company employee owned. Maybe now it's a Job/Owner
Security issue. ;-)
Darrell Reiley
RV7A "Reiley Rocket"
N622DR Reserved
CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
That's called "Job Security"
Bill
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Reiley
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 9:48 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
plans/drawings
It's
unfortunate that they cannot or will not recognize
that the kits could
be significantly improved and the need for factory
support minimized
with a little attention to their documents.
Charlie,
I understand where you're coming from. It has been a
few years since Van himself decided to make the
company employee owned. Maybe now it's a Job/Owner
Security issue. ;-)
Darrell Reiley
RV7A "Reiley Rocket"
N622DR Reserved
CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
Subject:
tire wear
Date:
Aug 27, 2006
Well,
the last time I made a suggestion on this topic it took about two weeks for
the flaming to stop.
But they wear primarily for three reasons.
Camber, the tire isn't vertically straight
Toe, the tire isn't pointed straight ahead and aft, parallel to the AC
centerline.
Big foot, the brakes are on during take offs, landings and taxi operations
Sans a big foot, toe will wear the tires rapidly if more than one deg.
Test is to rub across the grooves with a finger, if feathered and sharp on
one side of groove and rounded on the other side of groove then side
scrubbing is happening. Direction of scrubbing is from feather edge towards
rounded edge.
Fix is to rotate gear in socket for tapered rod type, the others can be
shimmed at stub axel. Because of aft rake of tapered rod gear rotating in
socket will change both camber and toe. But fixing toe is most important as
it scrubs tire on one side usually, rather than wearing it at a camber
angle.
Since most wear comes from ground ops set toe with AC in that attitude and
common weight. As well most landing are close to three point landings
anyways.
Project line of sight off wheel rim 100 inches out and measure to centerline
close to wheel and at 100 inches. Both should be same.
At 100 inches out one degree = 1.75 inches roughly so get fore and aft tire
parallelism with centerline inside of that value.
Camber - not much you can do about it on an RV as weight changes too much,
too often. Get 'em both the same if you have the stub axel design (-8)
I generally get about 350-400 hours out of a set of tires if I don't pop 'em
on those damm goat head thorns and rotate 'em once.
W
And PS, leak stop tubes rock.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject:
Davd Clark X-11 headset review?
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Hello listers,
The David Clark Co. Inc. website offers what apears to be a new headset
called X 11.
The promo on the website looks good
I have not heard or found any other reports pro or can about this product.
Would anyone care to offer opinions based on actual use?
Jim in Kelowna - final inspection soon
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
From:
Charles Reiche <charlieray(at)optonline.net>
Subject:
Re: Kick Back - More Info
Why would you want to do this if the mag has the impulse coupling? You
might as well use an non IC mag for that. Does the electronic ign have an
option for retard timing?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
> No, you want to start the engine with the EI ON and the mag OFF.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
>
> I'm very close to wiring my plane and would like to know how to wire the
> ignition key switch. I have an AeroSport IO360 with one "mag", and one
> Lightspeed Electronic Ignition. It seems that the forum is suggesting
> that
> I wire the key switch so that in the "start" position only the Mag is
> firing, but upon releasing the key switch from start to both, that then
> both
>
> the mag and the Lightspeed are firing. Is this correct?
>
> Garry Stout
> RV7A Odessa Fl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:29 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
>
>>
>> rveighta wrote:
>>
>>>Sound like a impulse coupler problem?
>>>
>> No, it sounds like the non-impulse coupled mag is firing before TDC (like
>> it should) during starting. The purpose of the IC is to slow the mag
>> down
>
>> so it fires right at TDC during the starting process. When the engine is
>> running, there is enough speed and inertia that firing at 28 BTDC is
>> desireable. Duirng starting, when the engine is running so slowly, if
>> the
>
>> non-IC mag fires at 28 BDTC, it is likely to cause a kickback.
>>
>> Try leaving the non-IC mag off during starting. If you have a keyswitch,
>> make sure it's wired properly to ground (turn off) the non-IC mag at the
>> START position.
>>
>> Jeff Point
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jack Fromm" <jfromm1(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Well said, Paul. My sentiments exactly. Now for an anecdote...
About a year and a half ago, my EAA chapter held a sheet metal assembly
workshop using the old Van's flap project. Before the workshop, all of us
"instructors" got together to put one of the projects together to
familiarize ourselves with it so we wouldn't make fools of ourselves when we
actually went to teach it. Good thing, too. During this familiarization, I
found at least three problems with the one-page instruction/drawing sheet
that came with the project! One was a nutplate part number callout where
the drawing disagreed with the instructions, the other showed one of the end
ribs facing the wrong way and finally, a couple of steps in the instructions
were out of sequence. I could have sworn Van did this intentionally. It
must be his way of preparing us for all the problems we would encounter with
the real plans. Seeing this, I suggested to my fellow instructors that we
begin the workshop by having the students take a half-hour to read ahead,
just like Van's suggests in the real plans, to see who could spot the three
problems and that we award a door prize to the winner(s). They didn't take
my suggestion either. :-(
Jack Fromm
RV-8 81120 Flying
>
> In general, I think that Van's has designed excellent aircraft and their
> kits are great. But in some respects the instructions could be a little
> better. Yes, we should be able to extrapolate from the drawings and
> instructions to figure out what we should be doing, but when there are
> specific instructions or drawings for an operation, we should be able to
> rely on them. It is not that the instructions need to be expanded, it is
> that those that are there should be correct. Any incorrect or
contradictory
> instructions should be fixed. This is not hard, as I'm sure that Van's
has
> been apprised of the errors by many people. Also, we should not have to
> worry about following the instructions and doing something only to find
out
> later that something else should have been done first. Reading ahead in
the
> instructions is a good idea, but they should be in the proper order
anyway.
> I'm having a great time building my 8, but sometimes it is frustrating
> trying to figure out what to do when the instructions and drawing are
> unclear or contradict each other.
>
> The instructions that are provided, at whatever level of detail that Van's
> feels are necessary, should be accurate. It would take very little effort
> to create a section on their website with corrections to the instructions
> and drawings. For anything beyond that, I feel that these forums and
email
> lists are a great resource.
>
> Paul Trotter
> RV-8 82080 Fuselage Kit
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject:
Kick Back - More Info
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
All EI systems I've seen have a retard mechanism for starting. One of the
main benefits of an EI is it's supposed ease of starting.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Reiche
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
Why would you want to do this if the mag has the impulse coupling? You
might as well use an non IC mag for that. Does the electronic ign have an
option for retard timing?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
> No, you want to start the engine with the EI ON and the mag OFF.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
>
> I'm very close to wiring my plane and would like to know how to wire the
> ignition key switch. I have an AeroSport IO360 with one "mag", and one
> Lightspeed Electronic Ignition. It seems that the forum is suggesting
> that
> I wire the key switch so that in the "start" position only the Mag is
> firing, but upon releasing the key switch from start to both, that then
> both
>
> the mag and the Lightspeed are firing. Is this correct?
>
> Garry Stout
> RV7A Odessa Fl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Point" <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:29 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
>
>>
>> rveighta wrote:
>>
>>>Sound like a impulse coupler problem?
>>>
>> No, it sounds like the non-impulse coupled mag is firing before TDC (like
>> it should) during starting. The purpose of the IC is to slow the mag
>> down
>
>> so it fires right at TDC during the starting process. When the engine is
>> running, there is enough speed and inertia that firing at 28 BTDC is
>> desireable. Duirng starting, when the engine is running so slowly, if
>> the
>
>> non-IC mag fires at 28 BDTC, it is likely to cause a kickback.
>>
>> Try leaving the non-IC mag off during starting. If you have a keyswitch,
>> make sure it's wired properly to ground (turn off) the non-IC mag at the
>> START position.
>>
>> Jeff Point
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject:
Re: Weight & Balance
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
When I reweighed my 8A, I drained the fuel tanks by pumping fuel into cans
through a hose connected in place of the carb fuel inlet using the auxiliary
electric fuel pump. This insured the correct amount of unusable fuel
remained in the tanks and eliminated the uncertainty over exactly how much
fuel was in the tanks. If I was off by 1 gallon, 6lb, that would translate
into a moment of 480 for a CG position error of +/- 6 tenths of a percent in
CG location given the empty moment of my airplane, 84575. Not a very big
error as errors go. Still, it made me uncomfortable enough that I took the
slightly harder route of emptying the tanks.
There were two additional benefits to this approach: I could calibrate a
dip stick for measuring usable fuel by refilling the empty tanks in two
gallon increments, and, by raising the gas can above the fuel tank level, I
could look at my see through fuel filter during the pump out operation to
see if the fuel system was sucking any air.
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Weight & Balance
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
An excellent tip. Thank you.
Such sharing of good building tips is becoming very rare on this
list, so forgive me for further clogging it.
No not archive.
Denis Walsh
On Aug 28, 2006, at 07:49 281700008, DAVID REEL wrote:
>
> When I reweighed my 8A, I drained the fuel tanks by pumping fuel
> into cans
> through a hose connected in place of the carb fuel inlet using the
> auxiliary
> electric fuel pump. This insured the correct amount of unusable fuel
> remained in the tanks and eliminated the uncertainty over exactly
> how much
> fuel was in the tanks. If I was off by 1 gallon, 6lb, that would
> translate
> into a moment of 480 for a CG position error of +/- 6 tenths of a
> percent in
> CG location given the empty moment of my airplane, 84575. Not a
> very big
> error as errors go. Still, it made me uncomfortable enough that I
> took the
> slightly harder route of emptying the tanks.
>
> There were two additional benefits to this approach: I could
> calibrate a
> dip stick for measuring usable fuel by refilling the empty tanks in
> two
> gallon increments, and, by raising the gas can above the fuel tank
> level, I
> could look at my see through fuel filter during the pump out
> operation to
> see if the fuel system was sucking any air.
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject:
intersection fairings...
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Hey all... I bought a set of intersection fairings from Fairings, Etc.,
and am looking for ideas on how to attach them at the top...
I think I am going to make the fairings part of the gear leg fairing at
the top and attach it to the fuse, and make the lower fairings part of
the wheel pants...
Any suggestions and photos would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks!
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Tailgummer(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Subject:
Re: intersection fairings...
Hi Bill!
I also bought a set of upper and lower intersection fairings for my 8, but
had to EXTENSIVELY modify them for proper fit. The lower fairings are
attached (epoxy/micro bonded) to the pants. The upper fairings fit snugly over
the gear leg fairing and are attached to my fuselage with two nut plates fwd
and one rivnut on the aft. They are quite solid.
I'm not sure if this will work for an 8A, but if you'd like I'll take some
photos and send them to you.
John D'Onofrio
N585JD (_Tailgummer(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Tailgummer(at)aol.com) )
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: intersection fairings...
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Bill,
Don't remember which aircraft you have. Do you have the two piece
aluminum gear leg fairings or the one piece fiberglas?
I have the one piece fiberglass main gear leg fairing on 6A. The main
gear top intersection fairings are attached to the fuse at the top and
not attached to the gear leg fairing. There is considerable movement
between the gear leg fairing and the top intersection fairing when the
main gear flexes.
Same is true for the bottom. Need to keep some movement possible.
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill VonDane
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 10:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: intersection fairings...
Hey all... I bought a set of intersection fairings from Fairings,
Etc., and am looking for ideas on how to attach them at the top...
I think I am going to make the fairings part of the gear leg fairing
at the top and attach it to the fuse, and make the lower fairings part
of the wheel pants...
Any suggestions and photos would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks!
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject:
Re: intersection fairings...
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
sorry, i have an rv-8a
----- Original Message -----
From: Bill VonDane
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 8:24 AM
Subject: RV-List: intersection fairings...
Hey all... I bought a set of intersection fairings from Fairings, Etc.,
and am looking for ideas on how to attach them at the top...
I think I am going to make the fairings part of the gear leg fairing at
the top and attach it to the fuse, and make the lower fairings part of
the wheel pants...
Any suggestions and photos would be greatly appreciated...
Thanks!
-Bill
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
From:
"Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
At the risk of bringing some maturity (g) to the discussion, I think it's important
to recognize that everyone is different and one size doesn't necessarily
fit all. We all learn differently. We all interpret differently. There is no
"right" way or "wrong" way. There's only a different way and if we're smart enough
to build airplanes, aren't we smart enough to stay clear of pointless debate
about the people doing the learning?
It's true that the folks who built off the plans were real good builders, but a
plans-only model wouldn't have kept Van's in business because few people actually
could do that. On the other side of the coin, this is a friggin' big airplane,
not a Lego kit. Under the 51% rule, we're supposed to get educated. It's
just that sometimes the process of education collides head-on with the recreation
part.
The other thing to remember is that the instructions/plans method was deployed
before something like builders groups on the Internet came along and, frankly,
sites like Dan Checkoway's are becoming the defacto instruction manual for a
lot of people who like to SEE stuff put together. Then you have the Orndorff
videos. And this list, and other lists, and newsletters. When you really think
about it, building for many people is not "I built just off the plans," it's
"I built off the plans, the manual, the Web sites, the videos, and the user groups."
Debating whether people should just build off the plans is a moot point except
for those who just want to have a good online feud. Even Van's recognizes they
shouldn't or else they wouldn't have taken such a huge step forward with the
RV-10 plans. How did they get to that improvement? Someone must've pointed out
that there was a better way. Good for them. Good for us. I'm guessing they also
did it without characterizing the company as inordinately inferior.
So just one more plea before I have to start setting up another stinkin' Rules
Wizard on Outlook:
If we could just bend over backwards to consider other obvious improvements that
could be made in this process without giving in to the temptation to use the
thread for another worthless "I'm better than you are" stage, that'd go a long
way toward making this week's building process even better at my house.
--------
Bob Collins
St. Paul, Minn.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58009#58009
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
From:
Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject:
Re: intersection fairings...
At 08:24 AM 8/28/2006, you wrote:
>Hey all... I bought a set of intersection fairings from Fairings, Etc.,
>and am looking for ideas on how to attach them at the top...
>
>I think I am going to make the fairings part of the gear leg fairing at
>the top and attach it to the fuse, and make the lower fairings part of the
>wheel pants...
You have beaucoup resources at 00V Bill. I suspect that if you attach
the upper fairings at two points then gear leg movement may cause
something to crack (fiberglass part).
The lower attachment method I believe was done by Wolfie next door
to where you used to hanger your airplane.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
> It sounds like there are errors that should and could be
> corrected.
I just found one. The bolt callout (3-10A) for connecting the pushrod
between the two control yokes is too short. That strikes me as kind of an
important connection, and there's not enough threads to get threadlocker on
there, or even the torque seal goop. Change to 3-11A. Might also be the
case for the bolt connecting the aileron pushrods to the stick. I've added
it to the database.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
OH, I should have mentioned that this applies for those using manual aileron
trim. That steel tab that connects the spring and the yoke adds the
thickness that makes the 10A too short.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins
> Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 1:20 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
>
>
>
>
> > It sounds like there are errors that should and could be
> > corrected.
>
> I just found one. The bolt callout (3-10A) for connecting the
> pushrod between the two control yokes is too short. That
> strikes me as kind of an important connection, and there's
> not enough threads to get threadlocker on there, or even the
> torque seal goop. Change to 3-11A. Might also be the case
> for the bolt connecting the aileron pushrods to the stick.
> I've added it to the database.
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bryan Flood" <bryanflood(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
First Flight N95BF
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Hi,
Well after almost 6 years of building another RV has flown
and returned to earth safely. The first flight of my RV-9A occurred
last Friday night about 6 pm lasted a hour. The flight was nearly
perfect, except I landed slightly on the brakes, which seem to be
working quite well. Anyway, for the record I wanted to say how
valuable I found transition training to be. I did transition
training with Dan Cunningham in Decatur Alabama in his RV-9A. First
off Dan was great. I had to get 5 hours for insurance but only had
one day to fly. Dan really worked hard to make sure I got all the
time I needed, which involved taking several breaks and going for a
nice lunch. I was pretty tired after that big day of flying, but
what a difference it made in my ability to handle the airplane. When
I took off on the first flight of my plane the training proved
invaluable. At no point during the first flight did I have to
question my ability to land b/c I had already landed Dan's plane a
bunch of times. The pressure was completely off. I thought the first
flight would be shear terror, but it wasn't. About 2 seconds after
the plane lifted off the ground and was clearly controllable the
rest of the flight was a pure joy. I really do contribute this to
training, having experience in the type was everything for me.
Before the first flight I reasoned that if the plane would perform
flawlessly on the first flight I could probably take the flight w/o
transition training. You know spend time feeling it out, slowly
finding the stall buffet, estimating an approach speed and what not.
As it turns out the first flight was flawless, and I did get to the
stall buffet and found that the numbers were exactly the same as
Dan's plane. So I knew all the information I needed before I even
took off. That was very reassuring, but in the case of an emergency
it would have been invaluable. If everything hadn't gone exactly
perfect it occurs to me that I would not only had an idea of the
emergency procedures but actually had done them. Again training with
Dan was probably one of the best decisions I made during the whole
project. I would highly recommend Dan Cunningham's training,
especially if you have an RV-9A and want to get time in the model.
Dectaur Alabama is a nice town, the airport is nice and clean (and
long), the people are friendly (the airport dog even more friendly),
and not that long of a drive or a flight from anyplace when you
consider how close it is to Huntsville. Anyway thanks Dan! And good
luck to all of you in RV land.
Bryan Flood
N95BF (0.6 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
It seems that everyone on the list has replied, so why should I be any
different?
As a person who strives to swim downstream, and not upstream, I learned
early from Van's when most of their advice to my questions was "to just
make it work." Sort of like if the small hammer doesn't work, use a
slightly bigger one.
Somewhere during the wing construction, I began to use Van's instructions
and plans as a general guidelines. You could say that my RV is not built
to the plans. But as many of you are finding out, few if any RVs are or
can be built to the exact specifications on the plans.
I remember on one of the promotional videos for the RVs of some disgruntled
builder running outside of the workshop with a part, throwing it on the
ground and then jumping up and down on it. I think someone at Vans has a
sense of humor, or at least understands that building an RV is not an exact
science step by step and paint by the numbers process.
I am one of the last people on earth to defend Vans Aircraft. I just offer
my opinions to help others overcome the extreme frustration that we all get
caught up in (some will not admit it). Take a week off, come back
refreshed and relook the problem, and the answer will be forthcoming! You
might not like the obvious answer, but that is part of homebuilding, you
have to take the good with the bad, or you will be forced to abandon you
project!
BTW the kit with the most comprehensive instructions that I have heard of
was the Christen Eagle. At the time I built my RV, the RV kit cost about
$11,000 and the Eagle kit was $50,000. Would you rather pay Van the extra
$39,000 or do it yourself?
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
From:
Cory Emberson <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: Anyone have anymore information about this?
I just saw a second report on KRON-TV (Channel 4 out of SF), and they
showed some video footage of the wreckage. The tail was visible - white
with blue and red stripes across the top of the vertical stab. The first
anchor called it a "homemade plane." The report also said the pilot was
trying to land on Hwy 101.
Not much else in the report - I'll post more if I hear it.
My condolences...
Terry Williams wrote:
> 2 killed in Sonoma County plane crash
>
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/28/BAGR8KQNVS4.DTL
>
> tw
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
From:
Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Anyone have anymore information about this?
I know nothing about the crash, but it would be nice
if the person who wrote the article knew what they
were talking about...!
Darrell
--- Terry Williams <7ecapilot(at)comcast.net> wrote:
> 2 killed in Sonoma County plane crash
>
>
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/28/
>
> BAGR8KQNVS4.DTL
>
> tw
__________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
FYI...I had an electroair ignition and had problems with Kickback, and the subsequent
owner did as well...even chipped teeth on the ring gear...could have been
the ignition, but not sure...I seem to remember that you started it on the
EI, but didn't turn on the advance function until start, but that was 5 years
ago, and am not 100% sure.
Paul Besing
Bruce Gray wrote:
All EI systems I've seen have a retard mechanism for starting. One of the
main benefits of an EI is it's supposed ease of starting.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Charles Reiche
Sent: Monday, August 28, 2006 4:43 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
Why would you want to do this if the mag has the impulse coupling? You
might as well use an non IC mag for that. Does the electronic ign have an
option for retard timing?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce Gray"
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 5:35 PM
Subject: RE: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
> No, you want to start the engine with the EI ON and the mag OFF.
>
> Bruce
> www.glasair.org
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 2:05 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
>
> I'm very close to wiring my plane and would like to know how to wire the
> ignition key switch. I have an AeroSport IO360 with one "mag", and one
> Lightspeed Electronic Ignition. It seems that the forum is suggesting
> that
> I wire the key switch so that in the "start" position only the Mag is
> firing, but upon releasing the key switch from start to both, that then
> both
>
> the mag and the Lightspeed are firing. Is this correct?
>
> Garry Stout
> RV7A Odessa Fl
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeff Point"
> To:
> Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2006 1:29 PM
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Kick Back - More Info
>
>
>>
>> rveighta wrote:
>>
>>>Sound like a impulse coupler problem?
>>>
>> No, it sounds like the non-impulse coupled mag is firing before TDC (like
>> it should) during starting. The purpose of the IC is to slow the mag
>> down
>
>> so it fires right at TDC during the starting process. When the engine is
>> running, there is enough speed and inertia that firing at 28 BTDC is
>> desireable. Duirng starting, when the engine is running so slowly, if
>> the
>
>> non-IC mag fires at 28 BDTC, it is likely to cause a kickback.
>>
>> Try leaving the non-IC mag off during starting. If you have a keyswitch,
>> make sure it's wired properly to ground (turn off) the non-IC mag at the
>> START position.
>>
>> Jeff Point
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
---------------------------------
Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
From:
"Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject:
Re: RV6 down in Petaluma
On 20:16:50 2006-08-28 Paul Besing wrote:
> "Home-built planes, often referred to as "experimental aircraft,"
> are inspected by an FAA examiner who looks at the bolts, rivets and
> mechanical parts of the craft before the metal skin is installed. If it
> passes, the pilot is restricted to flying alone, and over unpopulated
> areas, for a period of time, Gregor said, and must pass an annual
> inspection."
>
> Last I checked, the FAA examiner (or DAR if it happens to be)
> doesn't check the craft before the metal skin is installed.
We all here know that, but to the general public it's a largely irrelevant
detail. I commend the reporter in question for at least communicating that
homebuilt aircraft are inspected by a regulatory body when they're built,
and are inspected regularly when they're flying. That's a lot better than
leaving it as "so and so died in a homemade plane". At least this time it
doesn't sound like some yahoo who slapped together an engine and some
planks of wood and went out trying to fly.
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Richard Crosley" <rcrosley(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Date:
Aug 28, 2006
Here is a copy of a letter I wrote in 1999 while building my RV-8.
Doesn't sound like things have changed much, Too bad.
The plans are useable, but...........
>
> Take a look at the plans that Frank Christen had for the Christen
Eagle II
> twenty years ago. Outstanding!!! A manual for every kit, subdivided
with a
> general description of what the task is, description of new skills, an
> accurate list of parts needed on the next section, tools needed and
> preaddressed cards to report back any errors or questions. Isometric
> pictures on every page. Change letters on every page, upgrades sent
until
> you are done with that area. Small parts packaged in plastic boxes
with the
> part number for each part depicted in the lid of the box when you
flipped
> the it open.
>
> Van's plans are useable but they could be much better. I think I
learned
> just as much building the Eagle without all the guess work and
wandering
> around the garage trying to figure out what Van meant. You still have
to do
> the work and use the tools, you just know that what you are doing is
RIGHT.
Rich Crosley
RV-8, N948RC
175 hours
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
From:
<gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
What does a Cristen Eagle kit cost?
Are these Kits even made any more?
But there where mistakes right?
I would just have to say build what you like. It's a challenge to build,
and if it was easy everyone would do it. Sad truth, rarely said is
not everyone can build a plane no matter how much desire they
have, for one reason or another.
You make good observations and the Van's "system" could be better,
but it's still a fairly easy to build kit even comparied to the C-Eagle,
which was no walk in the park, even with the great instructions.
Cheers George M. RV-4, RV-7
>From: "Richard Crosley" <rcrosley(at)adelphia.net>
>
>Here is a copy of a letter I wrote in 1999 while building my RV-8.
>Doesn't sound like things have changed much, Too bad.
>
>The plans are usable, but...........
>
> Take a look at the plans that Frank Christen had for the Christen
>Eagle II
> twenty years ago. Outstanding!!! A manual for every kit, subdivided
>with a general description of what the task is, description of new skills,
>an accurate list of parts needed on the next section, tools needed and
> preaddressed cards to report back any errors or questions. Isometric
> pictures on every page. Change letters on every page, upgrades sent
>until you are done with that area. Small parts packaged in plastic boxes
>with the part number for each part depicted in the lid of the box when you
>flipped the it open...........................
>Rich Crosley
>RV-8, N948RC
---------------------------------
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject:
Re: Day 2 Trio Avionics Autopilot Install
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Hiya Dana, One thing I would sugest is that you should have rivited the
hanger and bolt or screwed the module, you will have to take it out. I
have had mine out 3 times, this time to be exchanged. Charles heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
From:
"Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
n223rv(at)wolflakeairport wrote:
> .........If you think Van's plans need improvement on their prints, build an
RV-4.... The RV-10 has best in class instructions. If you have an issue with
them, maybe another hobby would be better............
Some time ago, a seasoned airline pilot with a wry wit observed that the airline
travel experience was being rapidly reduced to just two classes of flyers.......First
Class and Third World.
As Van's kits and plans increasingly improve, the process has been democratized
to the point that a whole new class of builder has emerged. Because of the advanced
nature of todays kits, it is now possible to attract the masses. For
the first time in history, it is possible for the marginally skilled (and that
includes builders who have assembled nothing more complicated than a propane
barbeque grill from Lowes or Home Depot), the impatient citizen long accustomed
to instant gratification and his cousin....the first time builder and vocal
critic who cannot adapt generally well written plans and callouts to a particular
building situation. Such are the realities of an efficient marketplace. A
place at the table for everyone.
I'll go even further than that. I say a prepunched Quickbuild kit is to homebuilt
aircraft construction what a Betty Crocker Warm Delights Molten Chocolate
cake mix is to the culinary arts. It is generally conceded the devils food treat
can be loosely described as cake but demanding purists with a discerning palate
would naturally chafe at the notion and the chef a natural impulse to suggest
a Herculean effort and superior cooking skill to produce a confection demanding
little more than cup water and 1 minute, 45 seconds in the microwave.
[Rolling Eyes]
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" (standard kit)
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58209#58209
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
From:
"kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
I just want to put in that I think Vans is excellent. It's the frickin builder,
being myself in this case. I'm the one that forgets to do something, or I cut
something wrong, I get ahead of myself. Personally, I don't know how the average
person can do these kits, that's probably why so many people join these
groups, because they are pretty complicated. Myself, I hardly use the manual,
I just look at the blueprints and just throw it together so to speak. When I
have a problem then I go to the manual, but that still leaves me a little baffled,
so then I come here and read a little, then I go to the different web sites
and then I go look for an RV at the airport, to look at it.
Myself I've built many remote control airplanes in the past. I've always been
able to use my hands and put things together, well I do have a transmission shop
and build todays transmissions and do the computer systems and electronics.
So this gives me a real big boost for building the RV. I love this stuff,
I call it my big erector set. Which was my most favorite toy when I was a kid,
you couldn't get me away from it.
I just love the prepunched holes, but I think most people are putting to much work
into these kits. I personally just go through and drill out all the holes
to the proper size, then I put them together, forget about match hole drilling,
I feel that when you do that, you stand a chance of changing the alignments,
just drill them real quick seperately then put them together. Like I said,
when I do this and put them together I then check the alignments and there right
on.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58210#58210
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
From:
Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: RV6 down in Petaluma
Yes, that's definately a good point, and the fact that his facts were not straight
is definately a plus in our column...we just got lucky that the error was
in our favor...too often they make errors without checking facts, and unfortunately
there is a negative spin on them.
Yeah, couldn't you imagine that if he wrote "Ironically, the airplane was built
in someone's garage from a mail order kit" or something like that.
Paul Besing
"Rob Prior (rv7)" wrote:
On 20:16:50 2006-08-28 Paul Besing
wrote:
> "Home-built planes, often referred to as "experimental aircraft,"
> are inspected by an FAA examiner who looks at the bolts, rivets and
> mechanical parts of the craft before the metal skin is installed. If it
> passes, the pilot is restricted to flying alone, and over unpopulated
> areas, for a period of time, Gregor said, and must pass an annual
> inspection."
>
> Last I checked, the FAA examiner (or DAR if it happens to be)
> doesn't check the craft before the metal skin is installed.
We all here know that, but to the general public it's a largely irrelevant
detail. I commend the reporter in question for at least communicating that
homebuilt aircraft are inspected by a regulatory body when they're built,
and are inspected regularly when they're flying. That's a lot better than
leaving it as "so and so died in a homemade plane". At least this time it
doesn't sound like some yahoo who slapped together an engine and some
planks of wood and went out trying to fly.
-Rob
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Derrick Aubuchon <n184da(at)volcano.net>
Subject:
Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
I am replacing (finally!) my original, old style wheel fairings, for
Van's "new" Pressure Recovery fairings.
Any ideas on what works best for a minimal tire-to-faring clearance
around the lower opening?
Thanks,
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA (450+ hrs)
Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
From:
Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine Kick-Back IO-360
>
>Interesting! I worked in ignition system design for GM for 15 years. We
>always had to meet a 4.5 volt, 30 RPM cranking test. Yes, a low battery
>on a GM car can dip to 4.5 volts and the ignition system has to stay in
>sync and deliver a spark. It seems to me like a design defect, and LSE
>should do the fix for no charge.
This is not just a problem with LSE but with magnetos as well. I had the
same problem with slick magnetos, my fix, was to go with a 25 year old
prestolite starter. It works great and only cost me $150. It cost me more
to fix the SkyTec starter the first time, the second time I did not fix it!
It seems that this is more a problem with SkyTec and they should fix the
problem, of course they told me my magnetos were not timed properly and
that was the reason for the kickbacks! I do not like their product, but
their management is very innovative on reasons why it is not their fault
that their starter does not work.
Bob
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
>I don't even know why you would
> waste time looking up what length bolt was called out, just
> find a bolt
> that fits and use it.
Well, I'm probably a little anal in this area but I like to make sure all of
the parts that the designers want in a connection of any importance are
installed on the plane. So I actually use the plans more than the
instructions because I like to make sure the waashers are where they're
supposed to be around rod end bearings etc (I actually, just an aside, am
kind of surprised when I look at a number of builders who graciously put
their work online, how many rod end bearings are not surrounded by washers.
And as a further aside, let me point out the value of -- of at least to me
-- of the online log that pointed out the value of surrounding the TruTrak
installation with washeres).
Anyway, as long as I'm using the plans, it's easier to look at the bolt
callout, grab it out of the right bin and install it.
Now, it's true, you could just grab a couple of bolts and put one in until
one fits properly. But in my case, theat probably wouldn't work. Why?
Because I installed those bolts in that control column the other night and
put the nutstops on and never noticed it didn't fit until I was
disassembling it the other day.
Your point on the plans production difficulty is taken which is why I value
these lists and databses so much because I CAN make the changes really quick
when people find them. I just take a pen, scratch ut what's on the plans and
write down the correct part, number, or process. Simple.
I've REALLY enjoyed BUILDING the plane so far and if it's half as much fun
to fly as it is to build ...well... Great. But I'm a different person than
when I started. All my life, my family called me the "Scotch tape kid,"
because when something wasn't quite right, I'd just Scotch tape it until it
was. My dad's fixes were legendary for their -- ummm -- quirkiness and
inconsistency of results. That was me. However, since I started building 5
years ago, I answer to "me" now. I want to do things perfectly and though
perfection is often not achievable, approaching tasks with that goal is what
I like. I go slow and if *I'm* not satisfied, I redo it or do it until I
*am* satisfied.
I'm the quality control guy on my plane; not the guy at the other end of the
phone or the person that laughs at my question or the people who might
ridicule me on a bulletin board for not being just like him. Look, sure
we'd like the plans to be as good as they can be. But Van's isn't building
my plane. I'm building my plane and one of the things you learn in the
constructin process is that sometimes the plans are inefficient, and the
instructions are in ther ight order and you have to check and doublecheck if
you're of that mind to do so. I think questioning and double-checking is a
good thing and I think it leads to good habits in every other facet of
flying. It's no different, it seems to me, than checking your fuel tank
after the line guy has filled it up to be sure that it's full of 100LL and
not JetA.
So I think in the end we have to live with what we have. But I also think we
should accept that everyone is -- as I said before -- different. Brains work
differently. Rather than spend endless time characterizing people as being
one way or the other -- a completely fruitless exercise in the grand scheme
of things -- let's just redouble our efforts to provide information that can
help our fellow builders. Let's offer constructive advice and support.
Van's is one of the quirkiest companies I've ever dealt with. Heck of a
plane, no doubt about it. They're not going to suddenly change their ways
any more than I am going to go back to being the Scotch tape kid. We are
what we are.
Bob
RV Builder's Hotline
http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount. I was told
> that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be
something
> else causing the problem. Since I am using the same everything else, I
can't
> see what else it could be. With the engine mounted and 2 weeks of
connecting
> up everything already done, I am stuck.
=================================
Dan:
Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see
if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.
I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration
mounts? They wouldn't happen to be Lord?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dean Van Winkle" <dvanwinkle(at)royell.net>
Subject:
Re: Attaching floors with nutplates.
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Jeff
I agree with you on using only torx screws and also with Charley on
using only 8-32 screws. I am installing the seat and baggage floors, the
baggage bulkheads, and the baggage side covers almost totally with SS
100 degree flush 6 lobe 8-32 machine screws. In a small number of
locations that will not accept flush screws/nutplates, I am using SS
button head 6 lobe 8-32 screws. These screws are available from Micro
Fasteners ( microfasteners.com ) ( 800-892-6917 ) Lebanon, NJ. They use
a standard Torx T-15 driver.
Dean Van Winkle
RV-9A Fuselage/ Finish/ Engine
----- Original Message -----
From: Jeff Dowling
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching floors with nutplates.
I would consider using torx screws . I hate removing those #8 phillip
heads. Same with the seat panels and baggage panels.
Shemp/Jeff Dowling
RV-6A, N915JD
295 hours
Chicago/Louisville
----- Original Message -----
From: Steve Sampson
To: rv-list
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 12:35 PM
Subject: RV-List: Attaching floors with nutplates.
Is it OK to substitute nutplanes and #6 screws for LP4-3 rivets when
installing the floors? Thanks, Steve. RV4 #4478
com/Navigator?RV-List
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------
Try SPAMfighter for free now!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
From:
Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
Bob Collins wrote:
>
>> I don't even know why you would
>> waste time looking up what length bolt was called out, just
>> find a bolt
>> that fits and use it.
>
> Well, I'm probably a little anal in this area but I like to make sure all of
> the parts that the designers want in a connection of any importance are
> installed on the plane. So I actually use the plans more than the
> instructions because I like to make sure the waashers are where they're
> supposed to be around rod end bearings etc (I actually, just an aside, am
> kind of surprised when I look at a number of builders who graciously put
> their work online, how many rod end bearings are not surrounded by washers.
> And as a further aside, let me point out the value of -- of at least to me
> -- of the online log that pointed out the value of surrounding the TruTrak
> installation with washeres).
A HIGHLY recommended option for all builders, especially those with no
previous aircraft experience, is to put the following publication in
your shop and refer to it any time you are flummoxed about anything
construction related:
http://www.buildersbooks.com/4313.htm
A quick look at AC 43.13, Acceptable Methods of Aircraft Repair, can
tell you how to properly install bolts, utilize washers, torque
fasteners, install safety wiring, etc, etc, etc and will prevent you
from calling Vans and asking questions that make it sound like you are
clueless concerning aircraft construction.
It's true Vans is the manufacturer of the kit and has some
responsibility therein, but that doesn't remove our obligations as
builders to educate ourselves as much as possible about this endeavor we
have undertaken.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Lordy, Lordy, Rick,
I hope you know what a can of worms you have kicked over on the rug...Em,
Em, Em.
Charlie Ennis
RV6-A Slow Build
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:18 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
>
>
> n223rv(at)wolflakeairport wrote:
>> .........If you think Van's plans need improvement on their prints, build
>> an RV-4.... The RV-10 has best in class instructions. If you have an
>> issue with them, maybe another hobby would be better............
>
>
> Some time ago, a seasoned airline pilot with a wry wit observed that the
> airline travel experience was being rapidly reduced to just two classes of
> flyers.......First Class and Third World.
>
> As Van's kits and plans increasingly improve, the process has been
> democratized to the point that a whole new class of builder has emerged.
> Because of the advanced nature of todays kits, it is now possible to
> attract the masses. For the first time in history, it is possible for the
> marginally skilled (and that includes builders who have assembled nothing
> more complicated than a propane barbeque grill from Lowes or Home Depot),
> the impatient citizen long accustomed to instant gratification and his
> cousin....the first time builder and vocal critic who cannot adapt
> generally well written plans and callouts to a particular building
> situation. Such are the realities of an efficient marketplace. A place at
> the table for everyone.
>
> I'll go even further than that. I say a prepunched Quickbuild kit is to
> homebuilt aircraft construction what a Betty Crocker Warm Delights Molten
> Chocolate cake mix is to the culinary arts. It is generally conceded the
> devil?Ts food treat can be loosely described as ?ocake? but demanding
> purists with a discerning palate would naturally chafe at the notion and
> the ?ochef? a natural impulse to suggest a Herculean effort and
> superior cooking skill to produce a confection demanding little more than
> cup water and 1 minute, 45 seconds in the microwave. [Rolling Eyes]
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" (standard kit)
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58209#58209
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"c.ennis" <c.ennis(at)insightbb.com>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Derrick,
If you expect to fly from only asphalt and never have a tire low on
pressure..a 1/4 inch around is enough.
If on the other hand you will be flying in the real world, 5/8 inch is
the minimum side clearance I could stand. Front and rear of the tread I
use 1 inch which allows most of the grass I pick up from my home field
to exit without excessive buildup. Yes, I did start with 1/4 inch all
around and increased the clearance from there.
Your results may vary. ;-)
Charlie Ennis N60CE
----- Original Message -----
From: Derrick Aubuchon
To: RV List
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
I am replacing (finally!) my original, old style wheel fairings, for
Van's "new" Pressure Recovery fairings.
Any ideas on what works best for a minimal tire-to-faring clearance
around the lower opening?
Thanks,
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA (450+ hrs)
Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Subject:
Engine mount out of spec
In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount. I was told
> that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be
something
> else causing the problem. Since I am using the same everything else, I
can't
> see what else it could be. With the engine mounted and 2 weeks of
connecting
> up everything already done, I am stuck.
=================================
Dan:
Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see
if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.
I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration
mounts? They wouldn't happen to be Lord?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Subject:
Re: Attaching floors with nutplates.
Jeff & Dean:
I like the look of Torx head screws and they work very well. But, why add a
part that is not, shall we say standard? If you are away from home and need
to do a little maintenance or something works its way down into no-man's land
... Your girlfriends diamond from the engagement ring. It will be just a
stumbling block to obtain a driver.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
From:
Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject:
Re: Attaching floors with nutplates.
>I like the look of Torx head screws and they work very well. But, why add a
>part that is not, shall we say standard? If you are away from home and need
>to do a little maintenance or something works its way down into no-man's land
>... Your girlfriends diamond from the engagement ring. It will be just a
>stumbling block to obtain a driver.
You mean the torx driver is not in your travel kit? A fishing tackle box can
contain many items that will help you with repairs away from home.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject:
Attaching floors with nutplates.
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
You don't carry a tool kit?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 3:11 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching floors with nutplates.
Jeff & Dean:
I like the look of Torx head screws and they work very well. But, why
add a
part that is not, shall we say standard? If you are away from home and
need
to do a little maintenance or something works its way down into no-man's
land
... Your girlfriends diamond from the engagement ring. It will be just
a
stumbling block to obtain a driver.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
TRUTRACK ADI Pilot 1
From:
"Ian Findlay" <ianjo7(at)bigpond.com>
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Hello Listers,
I am new here so hope this works ok.
I am seriously considering purchase of Trutrack's ADI Pilot 1 as it is autopilot
and attitude instrument using one valuable panel hole in RV8 panel. The company
seems to have a first class reputation.
Has anyone out there had experience with this unit?
Ian from Downunder.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58334#58334
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Derrick,
When I built my RV8 in 1999, I experimented with several wheelpant and
tire variations. My objective was to obtain the most speed and the
least drag possible. I found out that when I used any of the various
cheap tires, I needed at least a 1/2 inch clearance around the tire
casing, because when landing etc. the cheap tires would expand and rub
the wheelpant. I solved the problem by installing Goodyear Custom III
tires and tubes. The Custom III series has a much stiffer tred and side
casing and holds its shape even with a hard landing. Note: the lower
(closer to ground) you install the wheel pant, the faster you will go.
I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam James
pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked better.
Good luck with your project.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
1350 hours - it gets better every day
----- Original Message -----
From: Derrick Aubuchon
To: RV List
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
I am replacing (finally!) my original, old style wheel fairings, for
Van's "new" Pressure Recovery fairings.
Any ideas on what works best for a minimal tire-to-faring clearance
around the lower opening?
Thanks,
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA (450+ hrs)
Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject:
Attaching floors with nutplates.
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Ditto. I've swapped many of the torx or hex screws I used initially out for
SS phillips for that very reason. Some places they make sense (forward
baggage floor still has hex cap screws, very helpful.) Other places,
there's no point (spinner). IMO.
-
Larry Bowen, RV-8, RV-7 VS
Larry(at)BowenAero.com
http://BowenAero.com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com [mailto:FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 6:11 PM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: Re: RV-List: Attaching floors with nutplates.
>
>
> Jeff & Dean:
>
> I like the look of Torx head screws and they work very well.
> But, why add a part that is not, shall we say standard? If
> you are away from home and need to do a little maintenance or
> something works its way down into no-man's land ... Your
> girlfriends diamond from the engagement ring. It will be
> just a stumbling block to obtain a driver.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
> "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick
> them the third time."
> Yamashiada
>
> Photoshare, and much much more:
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in plans/drawings
Now you guys have got me worried.
I have the tail & wings done, the fuselage side and bottom skins drilled
to the fuselage and have moved on to the gearleg boxes . . . and have
found the instructions and plans to be fine with none of the errors
confusing others.
I have, however, spent many hours waving parts in the air until I figure
out what I am trying to do though!
Pete Cowper
RV8 #81139
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 29, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
Barry,
Yes, they are Lord, I think. They are the from Vans. But, they are the
exact same ones I had on the other mount and in the same positions. When I took
the engine off the mount, I put each set in a separate zip-lock bag and
labeled it. I referred to the plans again and put the high durometer mounts in
the right locations -- just like I had them before. I kept them stacked just
like I took them off and restarted the nuts. I'm very sure that there is no
mistake here.
There is one possibility. The engine case is not the same one, but a
different IO-360-C1E6 off the shelf at Divco. I agreed to take a different case
to
speed up the turnaround. If I had it to do over again I wouldn't do this.
I am using an IO-360-A1A sump and intake tubes on this engine, which I
believe makes it an IO-360-A1D6. Do you know of any problem like this between
cases?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 8/29/2006 5:27:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount. I was told
> that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be
something
> else causing the problem. Since I am using the same everything else, I
can't
> see what else it could be. With the engine mounted and 2 weeks of
connecting
> up everything already done, I am stuck.
=================================
Dan:
Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to
see
if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.
I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration
mounts? They wouldn't happen to be Lord?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
Do you know of any problem like this between cases?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
===============================
Hi Dan:
Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.
I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.
When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back
to effect things at the front.
Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a
difference?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: Attaching floors with nutplates.
In a message dated 08/29/2006 9:11:33 PM Central Daylight Time,
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
If you are away from home and need
to do a little maintenance or something works its way down into no-man's land
>>>
I keep a small 1/4" ratchet and each of the bits/sockets for most routine
items on my plane in my on-board toolkit, which is a single Shure microphone bag
about the size of a small shaving kit that essentially vainishes on the floor
between the seats on my -6A. There are also several spare Torx screws of each
size I use in there too.
(also tie-down rings, electrical tape, wingjack blocks and basic tools to
remove all access covers, cowling, pants and do most away-from-home chores- no
spare engine or kitchen sink tho...)
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - N51PW "Mojo" with LOTS of Torx screws on board!
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
Dan,
Vans does not sell Lord or Barry brand mounts. The mount kit they
supply is made by VIP, Vibration Isolation Products.
Charlie Kuss
>Barry,
>
>Yes, they are Lord, I think. They are the from Vans. But, they are
>the exact same ones I had on the other mount and in the same
>positions. When I took the engine off the mount, I put each set in
>a separate zip-lock bag and labeled it. I referred to the plans
>again and put the high durometer mounts in the right locations --
>just like I had them before. I kept them stacked just like I took
>them off and restarted the nuts. I'm very sure that there is no mistake here.
>
>There is one possibility. The engine case is not the same one, but
>a different IO-360-C1E6 off the shelf at Divco. I agreed to take a
>different case to speed up the turnaround. If I had it to do over
>again I wouldn't do this. I am using an IO-360-A1A sump and intake
>tubes on this engine, which I believe makes it an IO-360-A1D6. Do
>you know of any problem like this between cases?
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>
>In a message dated 8/29/2006 5:27:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
>
>In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
>
> > I called Van's to see if perhaps I was sent the wrong mount. I was told
> > that this spec on the mounts was +/- 1/16 inch, and there must be
>something
> > else causing the problem. Since I am using the same everything else, I
>can't
> > see what else it could be. With the engine mounted and 2 weeks of
>connecting
> > up everything already done, I am stuck.
>=================================
>Dan:
>
>Before you go through all that work, I would check one thing ... Check to see
>if you have the thrust washers on in the correct order and correct location.
>
>I have more info but first I need to know which engine and who's vibration
>mounts? They wouldn't happen to be Lord?
>
>Barry
>"Chop'd Liver"
>
>"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
>time." es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS -
>bsp; --> nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI -
>; ========================
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Dick
Two questions.
Can you recommend any other name brand tires besides Goodyear?
What speed gain did you see by using the Sam James wheel pants?
Charlie Kuss
>Derrick,
>When I built my RV8 in 1999, I experimented with several wheelpant
>and tire variations. My objective was to obtain the most speed and
>the least drag possible. I found out that when I used any of the
>various cheap tires, I needed at least a 1/2 inch clearance around
>the tire casing, because when landing etc. the cheap tires would
>expand and rub the wheelpant. I solved the problem by installing
>Goodyear Custom III tires and tubes. The Custom III series has a
>much stiffer tred and side casing and holds its shape even with a
>hard landing. Note: the lower (closer to ground) you install the
>wheel pant, the faster you will go.
>I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam
>James pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked better.
>Good luck with your project.
>Dick Martin
>RV8 N233M
>the fast one
>1350 hours - it gets better every day
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <mailto:n184da(at)volcano.net>Derrick Aubuchon
>To: RV List
>Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:44 AM
>Subject: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
>
>I am replacing (finally!) my original, old style wheel fairings, for
>Van's "new" Pressure Recovery fairings.
>Any ideas on what works best for a minimal tire-to-faring clearance
>around the lower opening?
>
>Thanks,
>
>
>Derrick L. Aubuchon
>
>RV-4: N184DA (450+ hrs)
>
>Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
>
>n184da(at)volcano.net
>
>
>com/Navigator?RV-List
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
PGLong(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: TRUTRACK ADI Pilot 1
Ian
Just added a TruTrak ADI Pilot II, two axis pilot to my RV-4. Make sure you
get the Pilot II, and not the Pilot I, or you will end up with a single axis
pilot. I don't know why it took me so long to decide to do this. What a
superb instrument.
Pat Long
PGLong(at)aol.com
N120PL
RV4
Bay City, Michigan
3CM
Do Not Archive
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jerry Grimmonpre" <jerry(at)mc.net>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Does anyone know the difference between Goodyear Custom III tires and
the earlier Custom II tires?
Many thanks ....
Jerry Grimmonpre'
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Kuss
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
Dick
Two questions.
Can you recommend any other name brand tires besides Goodyear?
What speed gain did you see by using the Sam James wheel pants?
Charlie Kuss
Derrick,
When I built my RV8 in 1999, I experimented with several wheelpant
and tire variations. My objective was to obtain the most speed and the
least drag possible. I found out that when I used any of the various
cheap tires, I needed at least a 1/2 inch clearance around the tire
casing, because when landing etc. the cheap tires would expand and rub
the wheelpant. I solved the problem by installing Goodyear Custom III
tires and tubes. The Custom III series has a much stiffer tred and side
casing and holds its shape even with a hard landing. Note: the lower
(closer to ground) you install the wheel pant, the faster you will go.
I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam
James pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked
better.
Good luck with your project.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
1350 hours - it gets better every day
________________________________________________________________________________
Barry,
No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times. There is no way to
get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount. I understand that
washers can make a big difference. Since the distance between the mounts is
about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference,
maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.
What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about
3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl. This means removing the hinges and adding
some glass around the cowl and refitting it. I say this because I don't have
room enough in front for the way the baffle is made. There is the FAB
induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front.
Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl. Moving the whole
cowling forward seems like the best bet. I had to redo this when building the
plane and it is not too bad. The worst thing is messing up the paint job. I
have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing that need to be painted
anyway. I will probably be flying it with primer patches for a while.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
Do you know of any problem like this between cases?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
===============================
Hi Dan:
Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.
I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.
When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the
back to effect things at the front.
Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a
difference?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List)
(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
From:
"kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
I would like to add some info here that might seem surprising. In the auto field
the manuals, and I'm talking the factory manuals, have a 30% error. Now the
aftermarket manuals just take from these manuals as well so they are also 30%
in error. This was told to me by the factory reps.
What do I do. Well if I look in a manual and it doesn't seem right, it probably
isn't, so I'm careful. I guess we just need to be smart and research when things
are not right on these planes. And yes I do believe vans should be posting
on their web site the problems, I feel it would make their job a lot easier.
But then again it just might give them a bad rep for a person looking into
buying a kit and their just not willing to take the risk of admitting to not
doing a very good job. I know, sounds a bit stuppid in thinking, but there are
people that look at things that way. I know they should be worried about us,
but we already took the plunge and started buying the kits, so, they don't care
about us people, they care about future sales, or the first sale more. I'm
thinking marketing here nothing more.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58486#58486
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
RE: longer spinner, was Engine mount out of spec
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Hi Dan-
My spinner ( a couple years old) had about an eighth inch of protrusion
beyond the backplate, and it was a clean cut edge. Perhaps you could
contact the manufacturer and get one that they haven't trimmed yet, or even
one that is made a bit longer intentionally.
FWIW,
glen matejcek
aerobubba(at)earthlink.net
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
OK, Dan:
One more trick ...
This may not look the best but it does work and of course you can go fancy
and improve the idea...
Get a piece of 1/2" Pipe insulation foam.
Cut it length wise in half so now you have something that look like a 'C'
With the 'C' facing OUT (towards you), glue one part of the 'C' to the cowl
and let the other part fit up against the spinner.
The glue to use is 3M's Weather Stripping Adhesive (Red & White tube / box).
This will seal the gap between the spinner and the cowl.
Don't worry about it being bigger than the gap. The spinning of the spinner
will ware it to exact fit in a few minutes.
And if you want to paint the foam, yes it is paintable.
The advantage are:
1 - Seals off an area of lost air.
2 - Increases the positive air pressure in the upper cowl.
3 - Adds to the cooling and
4 - Makes for a better look than a huge gap.
Now, the pipe insulation can be replace with a thick neoprene cut into an 'O'
ring.
I have this configuration on a Grumman, used it for 9 years, it only needed
replacing once in 9 years. And the scary thing is ... IT WORKS!
Barry
===============================================================
Barry,
No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times. There is no way to
get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount. I understand that
washers can make a big difference. Since the distance between the mounts is about
half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference, maybe
a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.
What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about
3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl. This means removing the hinges and adding
some glass around the cowl and refitting it. I say this because I don't have
room enough in front for the way the baffle is made. There is the FAB induction
box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front. Also,
the alternator is getting very close to the cowl. Moving the whole cowling
forward seems like the best bet. I had to redo this when building the plane
and it is not too bad. The worst thing is messing up the paint job. I have a
new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing that need to be painted anyway. I
will probably be flying it with primer patches for a while.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
Do you know of any problem like this between cases?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
===============================
Hi Dan:
Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.
I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.
When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the back
to effect things at the front.
Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a
difference?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
At 10:11 AM 8/30/2006, you wrote:
>
>I would like to add some info here that might seem surprising. In
>the auto field the manuals, and I'm talking the factory manuals,
>have a 30% error. Now the aftermarket manuals just take from these
>manuals as well so they are also 30% in error. This was told to me
>by the factory reps.
>snipped
>kitfoxmike
>kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
>http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
>rv7 wingkit
>reserved 287RV
I'll second Mike's observation about errors in automotive tech info.
I do this for a living and it can be maddening. I'd also like to
mention that you don't get "step by step" instructions in these
manuals either. The authors assume that the person doing the work has
enough training to figure out HOW to remove or install a particular
part or assembly which needs to be removed or installed, as part of a
larger project.
Like everyone else, I've spotted a number of small errors on my 8A
plans. A local RV4 builder/owner coined a term for being bit in the
butt by an error in the plans. He calls it being VANdalized. :-)
After seeing my pre-punched 8A kit, he told me I had the "girls" kit.
I got the lecture about earlier builders having to mine their own
Bauxite, in the snow, trudging up hill, both ways, in June, etc, etc.
I spent 4 months helping Jody build his RV4. He was correct, the
older plans were nowhere near as good. He says that compared to
today's plans, his RV4 instructions were "mere vague suggestions".
Still, he finished it, and did a great job of it. I have a lot of
respect for the builders of RV4s and early RV6s like Jody Edwards and
Jerry Springer. For builders of RV3s, like Alex Sloan, all I can say
is "We are not worthy"! :-)
I was the winner in giving Jody 4 months of free help. He taught me
a lot more than I helped him. Folks starting out without a good skill
set, could do worse than to offer to help another builder. It will be
time well spent.
Vans does update errors in the plans. However, if he has 1000 sets
of plans already printed out, the error won't be fixed till the next
printing cycle. He has Dutch genes, after all.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Rant, question, suggestion: errors in
From:
"kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
He has Dutch genes. Oh my, that xplains everything. The first person I worked
for in the auto industry was Dutch, boy was he frugal. Great guy.
--------
kitfoxmike
kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
rv7 wingkit
reserved 287RV
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58531#58531
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
Dan,
Just a thought to consider. I know that Divco offers to modify
Dynafocal type II cases to type I specification. I would think that
this would require material to be machined from the rear of the case
at this point. Perhaps if this was done to your cases, it could
explain the gap. Perhaps a phone call to the shop who overhauled the
crankcases is in order?
Charlie Kuss
>Barry,
>
>No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times. There is
>no way to get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount. I
>understand that washers can make a big difference. Since the
>distance between the mounts is about half the length of the engine
>it should make about a 2 to 1 difference, maybe a little more due to
>the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.
>
>What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to
>add about 3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl. This means removing the
>hinges and adding some glass around the cowl and refitting it. I
>say this because I don't have room enough in front for the way the
>baffle is made. There is the FAB induction box and air cleaner
>which limits me from trimming the baffle in front. Also, the
>alternator is getting very close to the cowl. Moving the whole
>cowling forward seems like the best bet. I had to redo this when
>building the plane and it is not too bad. The worst thing is
>messing up the paint job. I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear
>leg fairing that need to be painted anyway. I will probably be
>flying it with primer patches for a while.
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>
>In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
>FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
>In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
>Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
>Do you know of any problem like this between cases?
>
>Dan Hopper
>RV-7A
>
>===============================
>Hi Dan:
>
>Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.
>I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.
>When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at
>the back to effect things at the front.
>
>Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers
>will make a difference?
>
>Barry
>"Chop'd Liver"
>
>"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
>time."
>Yamashiada
>
>
>="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
>
>.matronics.com/">http://forums.matronics.com
>
>ronics.com/">http://wiki.matronics.com
>
>://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
"Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
Dan, I would explore sending the mount back to Vans for a refund and get a
"custom" mount made by Snowline Mfg. in Oregon, who build the mounts for
Van's. It may be possible to make a mount to your specs using the factory
jigs, all they'd have to do is put some washers in under the firewall attach
points when they bolt those pieces into the jig (and build up the mount from
there). Assuming some of the other fixtures of the jig that hold the
nosegear socket are bolted to the jig base and those could be raised
perpendicular to the plane of the firewall as well. That would in effect
shorten the length of the mount if a new one were constructed to your
specs. I did a lot of work designing the jig and the 3rd generation of
engine mounts for the F1, and have stayed at a Holiday In Express. :) My
guess is that there are several jigs in use and it may be that there are
some significant dimensional differences between the jigs. I'd call
Snowline and see what they may come up with for you. IMO that would be a
far better solution than cutting into the cowl, at the very minimum you
wouldn't be making a CG problem worse.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On 8/30/06, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> Barry,
>
> No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times. There is no way
> to get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount. I understand that
> washers can make a big difference. Since the distance between the mounts is
> about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1
> difference, maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal
> mount.
>
> What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add
> about 3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl. This means removing the hinges and
> adding some glass around the cowl and refitting it. I say this because I
> don't have room enough in front for the way the baffle is made. There is
> the FAB induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the
> baffle in front. Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl.
> Moving the whole cowling forward seems like the best bet. I had to redo
> this when building the plane and it is not too bad. The worst thing is
> messing up the paint job. I have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg
> fairing that need to be painted anyway. I will probably be flying it with
> primer patches for a while.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A
>
>
> In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
> FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
>
> In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
> Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
>
> Do you know of any problem like this between cases?
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A
>
> ===============================
> Hi Dan:
>
> Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.
> I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING
> problems.
> When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the
> back to effect things at the front.
>
> Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will
> make a difference?
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
> "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the
> third
> time."
> Yamashiada
>
> **
>
> *="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">
> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List .matronics.com/">
> http://forums.matronics.com ronics.com/">http://wiki.matronics.com*
> ** *://www.matronics.com/contribution">
>
>
> *
>
>
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
Dana,
Thanks very very much! That would make this a lot easier than how I was
going to do it. I am going to take Bob's advice and see if the engine mount can
be modified because he is right about the cg. That would also save me a lot
of paint work.
The plane is already nose heavy, and this should only move it about another
1/8 inch forward, but that is in the wrong direction.
Thanks again,
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 8/30/2006 2:24:22 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
bo124rs(at)hotmail.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: "Dana Overall"
Dan, if you do choose to extend the aft portion of your firewall, let me
give you some advice from my plastic airplane building days. Find a local
custom gutter company, the ones with the forming machine on a trailer. Get
a couple scrap pieces of the flat stocklong enough to go wrap completely
around the aft of the cowl. Wax either surface very well and rivet this to
the outside of the cowl, extend aft your desired distance. This material
flexes and bends very, very easily. Now you have surface flush with the
outside edge of your cowl that is used to blend the addition on quite
nicely. Go to playing with glass, let dry, drill the rivets out and pop the
form off the cowl. All you should have to do now is fill in the gap left
between the cowl and your addition.
After all this, you probably know of another method:-), but gutter scrap has
been used in the plastic world extensively.
Dana Overall
Richmond, KY i39
RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic"
O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4
http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html
do not archive
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine mount out of spec
Bob,
I called Snowline Mfg. and they said that they don't make RV engine mounts.
Does anyone know who does?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 8/30/2006 12:41:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
rocketbob(at)gmail.com writes:
Dan, I would explore sending the mount back to Vans for a refund and get a
"custom" mount made by Snowline Mfg. in Oregon, who build the mounts for
Van's. It may be possible to make a mount to your specs using the factory jigs,
all they'd have to do is put some washers in under the firewall attach points
when they bolt those pieces into the jig (and build up the mount from there).
Assuming some of the other fixtures of the jig that hold the nosegear
socket are bolted to the jig base and those could be raised perpendicular to the
plane of the firewall as well. That would in effect shorten the length of
the mount if a new one were constructed to your specs. I did a lot of work
designing the jig and the 3rd generation of engine mounts for the F1, and have
stayed at a Holiday In Express. :) My guess is that there are several jigs in
use and it may be that there are some significant dimensional differences
between the jigs. I'd call Snowline and see what they may come up with for
you. IMO that would be a far better solution than cutting into the cowl, at the
very minimum you wouldn't be making a CG problem worse.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On 8/30/06, _Hopperdhh(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) <_
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) > wrote:
Barry,
No, I have looked this thing over about a hundred times. There is no way to
get 3/8 inch out from between the case and the mount. I understand that
washers can make a big difference. Since the distance between the mounts is
about half the length of the engine it should make about a 2 to 1 difference,
maybe a little more due to the 30 degree angle of the dynafocal mount.
What looks like my best alternative, all things considered, is to add about
3/8 inch at the rear of the cowl. This means removing the hinges and adding
some glass around the cowl and refitting it. I say this because I don't have
room enough in front for the way the baffle is made. There is the FAB
induction box and air cleaner which limits me from trimming the baffle in front.
Also, the alternator is getting very close to the cowl. Moving the whole
cowling forward seems like the best bet. I had to redo this when building the
plane and it is not too bad. The worst thing is messing up the paint job. I
have a new nose wheel fairing and gear leg fairing that need to be painted
anyway. I will probably be flying it with primer patches for a while.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
In a message dated 8/30/2006 5:00:00 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
_FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com_ (mailto:FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com) writes:
In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:40:08 AM Eastern Standard Time,
_Hopperdhh(at)aol.com_ (mailto:Hopperdhh(at)aol.com) writes:
Do you know of any problem like this between cases?
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
======
Hi Dan:
Sorry, I don't know of any problems between cases.
I mention the Lord mounts because I have heard of WASHER STACKING problems.
When setting up the thrust line it does not take much of a change at the
back to effect things at the front.
Just for S&G's ... DO you think swapping or removing the washers will make a
difference?
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
="_ http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) ">_http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List _
(http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) _blank" onclick="return
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com
_ronics.com/_ (http://ronics.com/) ">_ http://wiki.matronics.com_
(http://wiki.matronics.com/)
://www.matronics.com/contribution"> ="return
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/contribution
the many List utilities such as the Subscriptions page,
ronics.com/Navigator?RV-List" target="_blank" onclick="return
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">
" onclick="return
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
k" onclick="return top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> turn
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)">http://forums.matronics.com "return
top.js.OpenExtLink(window,event,this)"> rn top.js.OpenExtLink(window,eve
nt,this)">http://wiki.matronics.com -Matt Dralle, List Admin.
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(http://www.matronics.com/contribution)
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
FW: video input/taxi camera and other questions
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
"Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
OK, one of you geeks out there knows where to find such a device.... a
Windows CE driven camera. Go! Fetch! Good boy! ;-)
Vince
________________________________
From: Greg Toman - Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: video input/taxi camera and other questions
The ASI calibration is in the release Jeff and I are testing now. We
thought we would release it tomorrow, but it might be another couple of
days because I messed up the new function for defining missed approach
altitudes, decision altitudes, and a pre-set altitude for the vertical
nav function.
I checked into the camera thing (which by the way, we have had others
request). Our software engineer said that a web cam that plugs into our
USB port would provide us with video, but that he was unaware of any
webcams that include a driver for Windows CE (this is the embedded
version of windows that we use...it is quite different from the version
on your PC). So, all we need is the software driver. If you heard of
someonw that found a webcam that includes a Windows CE driver, find out
what camera that is, and let us know. This would be a free update.
I don't want to get you too excited though. If we can't find a camera
that includes the driver, we would need to write our own. This is not a
trival task, and a very rough estimate of the cost to do so is in the
range of $15,000-$30,000 worth of labor. We would only do this if we
thought we could earn that much back, which is unclear at this time. In
other words, don't count on it if we have to write the driver.
Interestingly, when I tested the winds aloft calc, my RV-6A was off by
less than 1 foot/sec at crusing speed. (I have Van's recommended static
and pitot ports.)
Thanks
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Frazier, Vincent A <mailto:VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
To: Greg Toman - Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: video input/taxi camera and other questions
Greg,
After the TBM/RV-6 accident at Oshkosh, the email lists are on
fire with guys wanting taxi cameras. Someone at your booth at Oshkosh
mentioned that someone had a USB interface that would allow your EFIS
screen to show video. PLEASE tell us where and how to get it.
Right now, this would be a HUGE selling point.
Also, is the ASI calibration to correct the winds aloft
calculations ever going to be available? It's been almost 2 years since
we discussed it.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Jerry Hansen" <jerry-hansen(at)cox.net>
Subject:
FW: video input/taxi camera and other questions
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
http://www.bluechillies.com/details/16749.htmlhttp://www.codecomments.com/archive425-2005-9-615836.htmlhttp://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT4566767075.htmlhttp://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=0eb87e35-13e4-4fa3-9fd
e-71e9136f47de
http://web.tampabay.rr.com/vescovi/gumstix/gumstix%20RVTC/Rear%20View%20Todd
ler%20Cam2.doc
_____
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Frazier, Vincent A
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 2:01 PM
Subject: RV-List: FW: video input/taxi camera and other questions
OK, one of you geeks out there knows where to find such a device.... a
Windows CE driven camera. Go! Fetch! Good boy! ;-)
Vince
_____
From: Greg Toman - Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:46 PM
Subject: Re: video input/taxi camera and other questions
The ASI calibration is in the release Jeff and I are testing now. We thought
we would release it tomorrow, but it might be another couple of days because
I messed up the new function for defining missed approach altitudes,
decision altitudes, and a pre-set altitude for the vertical nav function.
I checked into the camera thing (which by the way, we have had others
request). Our software engineer said that a web cam that plugs into our USB
port would provide us with video, but that he was unaware of any webcams
that include a driver for Windows CE (this is the embedded version of
windows that we use...it is quite different from the version on your PC).
So, all we need is the software driver. If you heard of someonw that found a
webcam that includes a Windows CE driver, find out what camera that is, and
let us know. This would be a free update.
I don't want to get you too excited though. If we can't find a camera that
includes the driver, we would need to write our own. This is not a trival
task, and a very rough estimate of the cost to do so is in the range of
$15,000-$30,000 worth of labor. We would only do this if we thought we could
earn that much back, which is unclear at this time. In other words, don't
count on it if we have to write the driver.
Interestingly, when I tested the winds aloft calc, my RV-6A was off by less
than 1 foot/sec at crusing speed. (I have Van's recommended static and pitot
ports.)
Thanks
Greg
----- Original Message -----
From: Frazier, Vincent A <mailto:VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Inc.
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:30 AM
Subject: video input/taxi camera and other questions
Greg,
After the TBM/RV-6 accident at Oshkosh, the email lists are on fire with
guys wanting taxi cameras. Someone at your booth at Oshkosh mentioned that
someone had a USB interface that would allow your EFIS screen to show video.
PLEASE tell us where and how to get it.
Right now, this would be a HUGE selling point.
Also, is the ASI calibration to correct the winds aloft calculations ever
going to be available? It's been almost 2 years since we discussed it.
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
From:
Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject:
Re: FW: video input/taxi camera and other questions
Oh, I don't know. Maybe we could google "web cam + windows CE driver"
and get something like:
http://www.gotdotnet.com/workspaces/workspace.aspx?id=0eb87e35-13e4-4fa3-9fde-71e9136f47dehttp://msdn.microsoft.com/embedded/usewinemb/ce/sharedsrccode/USBDriver/default.aspxhttp://www.windowsfordevices.com/news/NS7191593413.htmlhttp://blogs.msdn.com/mikehall/archive/2006/03/08/546465.aspx
This is a start, let me know how it progresses. THis could turn me from
the Dynon Flightdek 180 to the Grand Rapids units.
Steve EBerhart
RV-7A
razier, Vincent A wrote:
>
> OK, one of you geeks out there knows where to find such a device.... a
> Windows CE driven camera. Go! Fetch! Good boy! ;-)
>
> Vince
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* Greg Toman - Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2006 3:46 PM
> *To:* Frazier, Vincent A
> *Subject:* Re: video input/taxi camera and other questions
>
> The ASI calibration is in the release Jeff and I are testing now. We
> thought we would release it tomorrow, but it might be another couple
> of days because I messed up the new function for defining missed
> approach altitudes, decision altitudes, and a pre-set altitude for the
> vertical nav function.
>
> I checked into the camera thing (which by the way, we have had others
> request). Our software engineer said that a web cam that plugs into
> our USB port would provide us with video, but that he was unaware of
> any webcams that include a driver for Windows CE (this is the embedded
> version of windows that we use...it is quite different from the
> version on your PC). So, all we need is the software driver. If you
> heard of someonw that found a webcam that includes a Windows CE
> driver, find out what camera that is, and let us know. This would be
> a free update.
>
> I don't want to get you too excited though. If we can't find a camera
> that includes the driver, we would need to write our own. This is not
> a trival task, and a very rough estimate of the cost to do so is in
> the range of $15,000-$30,000 worth of labor. We would only do this if
> we thought we could earn that much back, which is unclear at this
> time. In other words, don't count on it if we have to write the driver.
>
> Interestingly, when I tested the winds aloft calc, my RV-6A was off by
> less than 1 foot/sec at crusing speed. (I have Van's recommended
> static and pitot ports.)
>
> Thanks
> Greg
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Frazier, Vincent A
> *To:* Greg Toman - Grand Rapids Technologies, Inc.
>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:30 AM
> *Subject:* video input/taxi camera and other questions
>
> Greg,
>
> After the TBM/RV-6 accident at Oshkosh, the email lists are on
> fire with guys wanting taxi cameras. Someone at your booth at
> Oshkosh mentioned that someone had a USB interface that would
> allow your EFIS screen to show video. PLEASE tell us where and
> how to get it.
>
> Right now, this would be a HUGE selling point.
>
> Also, is the ASI calibration to correct the winds aloft
> calculations ever going to be available? It's been almost 2 years
> since we discussed it.
>
> Vince
>
>*
>
>
>*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
I have Goodyear Custom II tires and they also maintain their
shape.....stiff well made sidewalls.
Tom in
Ohio RV6-A
----- Original Message -----
From: Jerry Grimmonpre
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 9:48 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
Does anyone know the difference between Goodyear Custom III tires and
the earlier Custom II tires?
Many thanks ....
Jerry Grimmonpre'
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Kuss
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
Dick
Two questions.
Can you recommend any other name brand tires besides Goodyear?
What speed gain did you see by using the Sam James wheel pants?
Charlie Kuss
Derrick,
When I built my RV8 in 1999, I experimented with several
wheelpant and tire variations. My objective was to obtain the most
speed and the least drag possible. I found out that when I used any of
the various cheap tires, I needed at least a 1/2 inch clearance around
the tire casing, because when landing etc. the cheap tires would expand
and rub the wheelpant. I solved the problem by installing Goodyear
Custom III tires and tubes. The Custom III series has a much stiffer
tred and side casing and holds its shape even with a hard landing.
Note: the lower (closer to ground) you install the wheel pant, the
faster you will go.
I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam
James pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked
better.
Good luck with your project.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
1350 hours - it gets better every day
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Aug 30, 2006
Subject:
Re: rivets
In a message dated 8/30/06 6:48:13 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net writes:
> OK rivet heads! Here's your chance to help educate me! I have acquired
> a lot of rivets ....... bags of them .... without any ID on them at all.
> How do you identify the rivets with their AN number???? They do appear
> to be aviation grade. How can you tell what the hardness of the rivet
> is??? Do you need to know????
> Linn
>
======================
Hi Linn:
I did not know you were o this group!
Start with the angle of the flush rivets, they should be 100 Deg.
Then there is a gage you can get for the diameter. It may even have length.
There are also rivets with a dimple on the head. Separate them into a
separate group also.
Now, the rest of the information is located in the AC 43-13
4-57. Riveting 4-14
Figure 4-4. Rivet Identification and Part Number Breakdown 4-16
Table 4-8. Aircraft Rivet Identification 4-17
There is also information on Hardened, Oversized and Frozen Rivets.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
Howdy list,
I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left
elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra
weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but
I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight
and I'll need extra on the right side to do the final balance on the
whole assembly rather than balancing each individually. I know that it
all depends on how heavy the paint is and I'm not sure what that will
be.
How much did you have to remove from the weights on your airplane to get
it to balance after paint? Did the left elevator have enough weight or
did it need make up weight on the other elevator?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
________________________________________________________________________________
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces
to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me
correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward
as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual
trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing
weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked
good for me.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight
> and I'll need extra on the right side to do the final balance on the
> whole assembly rather than balancing each individually. I know that it
> all depends on how heavy the paint is and I'm not sure what that will
> be.
>
> How much did you have to remove from the weights on your airplane to get
> it to balance after paint? Did the left elevator have enough weight or
> did it need make up weight on the other elevator?
>
> Pax,
>
> Ed Holyoke
>
>
>
>
>
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add
about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory
serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot,
not forward as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the
manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance
indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the
existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib.
Worked good for me.
-- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
> --> RV-List message posted by: "Ed
Holyoke" > > > > Howdy list,
> > I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage.
I went > with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier
lead > counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint,
the left > elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the
trailing edge > while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy
without the > trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove
some of the extra > weight from the right elevator before I rivet on
the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have
enough c-balance weight > and I'll need extr
a on t
=====
Van's phone person told me to do final balance of the elevators after
they were joined (Without the manual trim control connected if that is
your setup.)
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add
about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if
memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft
of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed
with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a
meaningful balance indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight
behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the
elevator tip rib. Worked good for me.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I
went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier
lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the
left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing
edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without
the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the
extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and
paint, but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance
weight
> and I'll need extr a on t ======
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject:
elevator balance weight
Date:
Aug 31, 2006
Dale,
Yeah, we've got the manual trim. If it were the electric setup with the
servo in the elevator, there'd be no way that the supplied weights would
be enough to balance the left elevator separately even before paint.
That would mean that the bolted together assembly would indeed be the
only way to balance, short of adding weight to the left side. Perhaps it
is of little value to balance them individually, but it is how I'd like
to do it if possible. If they do become separated in flight, flutter
will likely be the least of my problems. ;-)
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dale Ensing
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 11:12 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight
Van's phone person told me to do final balance of the elevators after
they were joined (Without the manual trim control connected if that is
your setup.)
Dale Ensing
----- Original Message -----
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 1:30 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add
about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if
memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft
of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with
the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a
meaningful balance indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind
the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator
tip rib. Worked good for me.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the
left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the
extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint,
but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance
weight
> and I'll need extr a on t ======
com/Navigator?RV-List
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject:
elevator balance weight
Date:
Aug 31, 2006
Harry,
You've got me wrong. I do understand that the paint is going to move the
balance point aft.
Van's directions say that weight will have to be removed from the
counterbalances by drilling holes implying that the weights are too
heavy. The balance point is much further forward on the right side and
I'm wondering if I can remove some of the extra weight now. I'm wanting
to get a little closer to the correct weight so that I don't have to
swiss cheese it so much later.
One thing I did after asking the question yesterday was too attach the
outboard weights to the elevators with rivets holding nutplates so that
I'll be able to remove the inboard weights and shave and/or drill the
back sides where it won't be visible.
Do you have the .020 skins and the .020 weights?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of
HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add
about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if
memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft
of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with
the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a
meaningful balance indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind
the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator
tip rib. Worked good for me.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the
left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the
extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint,
but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance
weight
> and I'll need extr a on t ======
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dennis & Helga Enns" <dhenns(at)mnsi.net>
Subject:
Capacitance sender
Date:
Aug 31, 2006
I am using Van's capacitance plates but need info on the capacitance to
voltage converter. I will be using a Dynon EMS D10 for fuel level display.
1. Source for converter
2. Make and model number
3. How is the connection made between the converter and the BNC connection
on the tanks.
4. How many and what gauge wires need to be run between the converter and
the Dynon EMS.
I expect the converters will be installed in the wing roots but would really
like to get a handle on the wiring so I can proceed with it.
PS: I have tried to contacting Princeton Electronics but get no reply to
email or voice mail. I also understand that Dynon is working on a converter
design but it has not yet reached the try out stage.
Thanks
Dennis Enns
________________________________________________________________________________
Chuckle
Doc
----- Original Message -----
From: "kitfoxmike" <kitfoxmike(at)yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 8:22 AM
Subject: RV-List: Re: rivets
>
> Gee, I thought that dot in the center was for drilling them back out.
>
> --------
> kitfoxmike
> kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster
> http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike
> rv7 wingkit
> reserved 287RV
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58727#58727
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
Subject:
yuk yuk
Date:
Aug 31, 2006
Interesting rant on vans plans
you guys ought to try working on certified AC with certified
manuals/plans...
often 43.13 is the best thing you have.... particularly on the old ones.
The reason they call them aircraft is because you are supposed to be a
craft's person to build 'em and to fly 'em.
Vans plan's fasteners diameters are rarely wrong but lengths are always
wrong, buy a ruler or inside bolt hole gauge and get over it.
2117 AD structural rivets should have a dimple in the top, one only. These
come in flush an426 or universal an470 head design mostly these days.
They tend to be good for about five to ten years then need to be reannealed
as they do age harden slowly. Try crushing a few if they cracks chuck 'em or
anneal 'em.
No dimple means 1100 soft aluminum and the list goes on, check AC43.13 1A or
1B or AC65-15A for the list.
W
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject:
elevator balance weight
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
Ed,
OK, I understand. I planned to fly my -6 before painting so I balanced the elevators
first without paint, then had to add weight after painting to rebalance.
Your approach sounds good if you plan to paint before first flight, then shave
the weights as required to balance. Hopefully they are oversize to start
with. When I built my elevators we still had to cast the weights into the tips.
Oh yes, I have the 0.016 skins.
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Harry,
Youve got me wrong. I do understand that the paint is going to move the balance
point aft.
Vans directions say that weight will have to be removed from the counterbalances
by drilling holes implying that the weights are too heavy. The balance point
is much further forward on the right side and Im wondering if I can remove some
of the extra weight now. Im wanting to get a little closer to the correct weight
so that I dont have to swiss cheese it so much later.
One thing I did after asking the question yesterday was too attach the outboard
weights to the elevators with rivets holding nutplates so that Ill be able to
remove the inboard weights and shave and/or drill the back sides where it wont
be visible.
Do you have the .020 skins and the .020 weights?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2006 10:31 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this. After paint I had to add about 2 ounces
to the left elevator and about 1 ounce to the right if memory serves me
correctly. The paint definitely increased weight aft of the pivot, not forward
as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once they are installed with the manual
trim cable in place it would be impossible to get a meaningful balance indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing the added weight behind the existing
weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts thru the elevator tip rib. Worked
good for me.
--
Harry Crosby
RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
>
>
>
> Howdy list,
>
> I've rebuilt the elevators on our 6 due to pedestrian damage. I went
> with the .020 skins (previously .016) and am using the heavier lead
> counterbalance weights recommended for these skins. Pre-paint, the left
> elevator balances with only about an ounce or two on the trailing edge
> while the right elevator is considerably more nose heavy without the
> trim tab and associated structure. I'd like to remove some of the extra
> weight from the right elevator before I rivet on the tip and paint, but
> I'm concerned that the left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight
> and I'll need extr a on t ======
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Ed,
OK, I understand. I planned to fly my -6 before painting so I balanced
the elevators first without paint, then had to add weight after painting to
rebalance. Your approach sounds good if you plan to paint before first
flight, then shave the weights as required to balance. Hopefully they are
oversize to start with. When I built my elevators we still had to cast
the weights into the tips.
Oh yes, I have the 0.016 skins.
Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
Harry,
Youve got me wrong. I do understand that
the paint is going to move the balance point aft.
Vans directions say that weight will have
to be removed from the counterbalances by drilling holes implying that the weights
are too heavy. The balance point is much further forward on the right side
and Im wondering if I can remove some of the extra weight now. Im
wanting to get a little closer to the correct weight so that
I dont have to swiss cheese it so much later.
One thing I did after asking the question
yesterday was too attach the outboard weights to the elevators with rivets holding
nutplates so that Ill be able to remove the inboard weights and shave and/or
drill the back sides where it wont be visible.
Do you have the .020 skins and the .020
weights?
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of HCRV6(at)comcast.net Sent:Thursday, August 31, 200610:31 AM <
B>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: elevator balance weight
Ed,
Not sure where you are coming from on this.
After paint I had to add about 2 ounces to the left elevator and about 1
ounce to the right if memory serves me correctly. The paint definitely increased
weight aft of the pivot, not forward as you are suggesting.
I balanced the elevators separately because once
they are installed with the manual trim cable in place it would be impossible
to get a meaningful balance indication.
BTW, the way I did it worked well by installing
the added weight behind the existing weight pocket using a couple of rivnuts
thru the elevator tip rib. Worked good for me.
-- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 254 hours
-------------- Original message --------------
<BR>From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> <BR><BR>> --> RV-List
message posted by: "Ed Holyoke" > > >
> Howdy list, > > I've rebuilt the elevators on our
6 due to pedestrian damage. I went > with the .020 skins (previously
.016) and am using the heavier lead > counterbalance weights recommended
for these skins. Pre-paint, the left > elevator balances with only about
an ounce or two on the trailing edge > while the right elevator is
considerably more nose heavy without the > trim tab and associated structure.
I'd like to remove some of the extra > weight from the right elevator
before I rivet on the tip and paint, but > I'm concerned that the
left elevator won't have enough c-balance weight >
and I'll need extr a on t ======
Just went through this myself. I managed to get Todd from Princeton on the phone, you just have to keep trying until you catch him. I finally got hold of him and ordered 2 of the S1 model senders. I installed them a couple of days ago. Won't know if they work until fuel is put in the tanks which won't be for a couple of months yet. Here is a link: http://websites.expercraft.com/markc/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=11982
Keep trying,
Mark - 234C (res)
Last 20%
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58849#58849
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject:
Tip Up Release
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
Recently there was some discussion about the merits or lack of relating to
the release handle on the tip up. As I recall some felt that the release was
mainly for maintenance and not putting the handle through the panel. Could
anyone point me in the right direction.
Thanks
John Furey
2 RV6A
RV7 in process
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
From:
"Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
CS Crankshaft end - what's it look like
Reposting since my original post failed to make it......
Fellow listers,
I'm trying to determine what the prop end of the crankshaft is supposed to look
like when it is set up for a constant speed prop.
Folks have written about plugs - but that doesn't tell me what to look for.
If it's plugged, should I only see the plug? If it's not plugged, what
does the inside look like?
FWIW, I'm not seeing 'just a plug' - I'm seeing stuff in there -
looks like a bar going across with a notch cut in to it...maybe to allow a tool
to get all the way in to the back.
Anyone have any drawings or photographs?
I know this is one that I don't want to have the wrong way...
Thanks,
Ralph Capen
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
Subject:
Re: Tip Up Release
In a message dated 09/01/2006 8:18:08 AM Central Daylight Time,
john(at)fureychrysler.com writes:
Recently there was some discussion about the merits or lack of relating to
the release handle on the tip up. As I recall some felt that the release was
mainly for maintenance and not putting the handle through the panel. Could anyone
point me in the right direction.
>>>
Hi John- no right direction here, just preferences. This topic has been beat
to a bloody pulp on the list in the past- check archives for: "tip & up &
canopy & release" and you'll need several cups of coffee before you're done.
General consensus is that no one has ever jumped out of a tip-up RV, and even if
you wanted to, it would be darn near impossible- oh yeah, then there's that
parachute thing. 8-)
My own take is that it is useful mostly for canopy removal for
painting/maintenance, but I did set mine up so it could at least be released in
flight by
reaching under the panel, pulling a pin, and rotating a handle. Quite a number
of other builders have taken this approach, or some version (perversion?) of
it. See:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4969
Inadvertant release would be pretty difficult. Also note that I used .063
angle for the links to the pins from the bellcrank instead of those wimpy little
chromoly tubes as I was concerned about how thin the tube wall is and that it
"might" cut into the bolts after 50 years or so. The angles on the bottom
plastic block with the holes through them were for a rudder trim system that I
decided not to use- you can see it in the previous entry if interested...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips RV-6A "Mojo" 350 hrs of grin time...
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
From:
Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: CS Crankshaft end - what's it look like
Ralph,
In my new Lyc. O-320 D1A from Van's, as received, the plug was an
approximately 50mil thick steel disc within an inch or so of the open
end of the crankshaft. It was slightly convex toward the open end. When
the plug is removed, the shaft end is open for some distance in. I have
not looked for or measured just how far in the shaft is hollow.
To prepare for my C/S prop, I followed the Orndorf video which suggested
using a sharp punch to penetrate the center of the disc and work it out
of the crankshaft opening. It came out quite easily. Be prepared for oil
to flow out of the crankshaft when the disc is removed.
Hope this is helpful
Richard Dudley
-6A flying
n
Ralph E. Capen wrote:
>
>Reposting since my original post failed to make it......
>
>Fellow listers,
>
>I'm trying to determine what the prop end of the crankshaft is supposed to look
>like when it is set up for a constant speed prop.
>
>Folks have written about plugs - but that doesn't tell me what to look for.
>If it's plugged, should I only see the plug? If it's not plugged, what
>does the inside look like?
>
>FWIW, I'm not seeing 'just a plug' - I'm seeing stuff in there -
>looks like a bar going across with a notch cut in to it...maybe to allow a tool
>to get all the way in to the back.
>
>Anyone have any drawings or photographs?
>
>I know this is one that I don't want to have the wrong way...
>
>Thanks,
>Ralph Capen
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: CS Crankshaft end - what's it look like
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
Ralph,
As Dale Walter stated, the new plug must go behind the spray bar for the C/S
prop setup. You can make a long handle hook from stiff SS wire that will
pull out the old pierced plug that is probably still in there.
To get the new plug into place, carefully slide the new plug into the crank
cavity and up behind the spray bar. This can be done with the plug lying
flat and the crank positioned so the spray bar is horizontal. To set the
plug into the recessed area in the crank, I made a tool from a cheap socket
that would just fit/slide inside the crank cavity. I ground relief slots in
the socket sides180 degrees apart that would fit over the spray bar and yet
allow the "tool" to press the new plug in place. Using a long extension on
the socket I tapped the new plug into place.
I am sure someone makes an expensive tool to do this but my homebuilders
tool worked very well.
Can send you a pict of the tool if you need. Also, somewhere in my notes, I
have the dimension from the flange to the plug to help assure that the plug
is all the way into the recess.
Dale Ensing
> Hi Ralph,
> The bar you see is a spray bar. About 7 or 8 inches back. Farther in,
about
> an inch is a plug. For a CS prop the plug should be closed, no hole, to
> maintain oil pressure to control the prop. If your engine had a fixed prop
> before they were supposed to pierce the plug to avoid oil leaks against an
> unsealed prop. I changed from fixed to CS and removed the rear plug (which
> had been pierced)and replaced with a new one. Lycoming cautions to treat
the
> spray bar like glass, if it is damaged the crank must be sent to the
factory
> to replace. I can send you some pics. Your crank also has a place for an
> outer seal to be used with a fixed prop. It is placed less than an inch
from
> the prop end of the crank and keeps the oil in.
> Dale
>
> > I'm trying to determine what the prop end of the crankshaft is supposed
to
> look
> like when it is set up for a constant speed prop.
>
> Folks have written about plugs - but that doesn't tell me what to look
for.
> If it's plugged, should I only see the plug? If it's not plugged, what
> does the inside look like?
>
> FWIW, I'm not seeing 'just a plug' - I'm seeing stuff in there -
> looks like a bar going across with a notch cut in to it...maybe to allow a
> tool
> to get all the way in to the back.
>
> Anyone have any drawings or photographs?
>
> I know this is one that I don't want to have the wrong way...
>
> Thanks,
> Ralph Capen
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
From:
<rickgray(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: CS Crankshaft end - what's it look like
Forget the 'stiff wire' to remove the old plug from behind the sludge tube....the
wire will just keep bending back and pulling out of the hole. Best way to remove
the plug is to borrow a dent puller from your local body shop...or make
your own. You simply pierce a hole in the plug (if there isn't one or if the existing
hole is inadequate), screw in the threaded end (screw) of the dent puller,
and give it a little whack. The plug will come out in a New York minute.
Rick in Ohio at the Buffalo Farm - Ohio Valley RVators
http://rv6rick.tripod.com/ohiovalleyrvators/
for the archives
> Ralph,
> As Dale Walter stated, the new plug must go behind the spray bar for the C/S
> prop setup. You can make a long handle hook from stiff SS wire that will
> pull out the old pierced plug that is probably still in there.
> To get the new plug into place, carefully slide the new plug into the crank
> cavity and up behind the spray bar. This can be done with the plug lying
> flat and the crank positioned so the spray bar is horizontal. To set the
> plug into the recessed area in the crank, I made a tool from a cheap socket
> that would just fit/slide inside the crank cavity. I ground relief slots in
> the socket sides180 degrees apart that would fit over the spray bar and yet
> allow the "tool" to press the new plug in place. Using a long extension on
> the socket I tapped the new plug into place.
> I am sure someone makes an expensive tool to do this but my homebuilders
> tool worked very well.
> Can send you a pict of the tool if you need. Also, somewhere in my notes, I
> have the dimension from the flange to the plug to help assure that the plug
> is all the way into the recess.
> Dale Ensing
>
> > Hi Ralph,
> > The bar you see is a spray bar. About 7 or 8 inches back. Farther in,
> about
> > an inch is a plug. For a CS prop the plug should be closed, no hole, to
> > maintain oil pressure to control the prop. If your engine had a fixed prop
> > before they were supposed to pierce the plug to avoid oil leaks against an
> > unsealed prop. I changed from fixed to CS and removed the rear plug (which
> > had been pierced)and replaced with a new one. Lycoming cautions to treat
> the
> > spray bar like glass, if it is damaged the crank must be sent to the
> factory
> > to replace. I can send you some pics. Your crank also has a place for an
> > outer seal to be used with a fixed prop. It is placed less than an inch
> from
> > the prop end of the crank and keeps the oil in.
> > Dale
> >
> > > I'm trying to determine what the prop end of the crankshaft is supposed
> to
> > look
> > like when it is set up for a constant speed prop.
> >
> > Folks have written about plugs - but that doesn't tell me what to look
> for.
> > If it's plugged, should I only see the plug? If it's not plugged, what
> > does the inside look like?
> >
> > FWIW, I'm not seeing 'just a plug' - I'm seeing stuff in there -
> > looks like a bar going across with a notch cut in to it...maybe to allow a
> > tool
> > to get all the way in to the back.
> >
> > Anyone have any drawings or photographs?
> >
> > I know this is one that I don't want to have the wrong way...
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ralph Capen
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 01, 2006
From:
Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject:
Re: yuk yuk
> Only testosterone needed and there was no list when I built my RV-6 :-) :-)
You had testosterone? Luxury! In my day we had to kill bull wi' bare hands,
boil down oysters for testosterone, inject testosterone wi' dirty needle, AND
we mined our own bauxite. You tell the young builders that today and they
won't believe you. (Spit.)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
From:
Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
AOPA Solicitation?
Has anyone else received a recent phone call supposedly from the AOPA asking for
a donation? Often citing the AOPA's around the country seminars and on-line
courses as expensive undertakings needing financial support, it all sounded so
proper until "Brian" asked me to provide him with my credit card number so he
could process my donation with a minimum of hassle. When I declined and instead
suggested he send the donation request via snail mail, "Brian" expressed a
sense of urgency and said my donation should be received by the AOPA no later
than Sept. 5 and he would send out the donation letter immediately. That was
several days ago. For being in such a rush, I wonder why I have yet to receive
an official request from the AOPA. Being cynical by nature, I have to wonder
if the phone call was a legitimate request or just another sophisticated attempt
by bottom feeders to prey upon the unwary? With the Labor Day weekend upon
us, my attempts at contacting the AOPA by
telephone for confirmation have proved fruitless.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
From:
Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject:
Re: AOPA Solicitation?
At 07:35 AM 9/2/2006, you wrote:
>Has anyone else received a recent phone call supposedly from the AOPA
>asking for a donation? Often citing the AOPA's around the country
>seminars and on-line courses as expensive undertakings needing financial
>support, it all sounded so proper until "Brian" asked me to provide him
>with my credit card number so he could process my donation with a minimum
>of hassle. When I declined and instead suggested he send the donation
>request via snail mail, "Brian" expressed a sense of urgency and said my
>donation should be received by the AOPA no later than Sept. 5 and he would
>send out the donation letter immediately. That was several days ago. For
>being in such a rush, I wonder why I have yet to receive an official
>request from the AOPA. Being cynical by nature, I have to wonder if the
>phone call was a legitimate request or just another sophisticated attempt
>by bottom feeders to prey upon the unwary? With the Labor Day weekend
>upon us, my attempts at contacting the AOPA by telephone for confirmation
>have proved fruitless.
Has to have your credit card number NOW.
That is a scam.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject:
TIS?
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
Do you have mode S traffic in the plane? Can you tell me how many times you
fly in an area that is "supposed" to have TIS data available and does not?
We are in the Seattle area, fly in the area of coverage and find that the
data is not being broadcast more then a fraction of the time. Is this the
norm, or is there something unique to our Center? It seems to be true for
Portland as well.
I have to say that TIS in the plane is beyond great when it's available.
Thanks,
Dave
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject:
RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] VNY FSDO
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
Folks,
If you remember last year I had a problem with the VNY FSDO and a memo
that prohibited flights at 4 airports for experimental aircraft.
Apparently the FSDO is narrowing it's interpretation to
experimental/exhibition and not (now) trying to apply it to
experimental/amateur built.
Here's the latest from the EAA:
http://www.eaa.org/communications/eaanews/060830_overflights.html
Keep your ears open. This could still end up affecting us all.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 11:42 AM
Subject: RV-List: RE: [SoCAL-RVlist] VNY FSDO
I'm hoping they're at work for all of us. Mark and I got our new oplims
and theoretically we're out of the fight now. I pushed on the EAA and
AOPA to go to work on this because I don't want anybody else to have to
go to the mat with the FAA later. The EAA didn't really need pushing.
They were eager to jump on it and just waiting for our oplims to clear
so those couldn't be held hostage. They have their yearly summit with
the FAA at Oshkosh in January. The memo and differing regional policies
are definitely on the agenda.
EAA rep Randy told me a FSDO horror story about a guy who bought a
homebuilt in southern Florida with 14 hours on it and the phase 1 not
complete. He moved it (disassembled) to northern Florida and applied for
a new test flight area in August. He had been told to send his original
airworthiness certificate and oplims in and they would turn them around
in 2 weeks. They lost the paperwork and he had to send copies (do you
have copies of all your paperwork in a safe place?). Every 2 weeks,
they told him it would be 2 weeks more. As of last week, and the EAA's
intervention on the guy's behalf, they had promised to issue the new
oplims the next day. I haven't heard if they came through. Part of the
problem is that the guy is based in extreme northern Florida and the
Miami FSDO says they can't give him a test area overlapping the Atlanta
FSDO's area. I guess they couldn't pick up the phone and coordinate
something with the other FSDO - no, so the oplims they finally agreed to
issue will force the guy to fly off his time to the south only so he can
remain in Miami's region. This story of bureaucracy run amok is another
example of why the FAA needs to be forced to set some rational national
policy and limit the regional FSDOs' authority.
The AOPA initially seems a little less interested. I got a call back
from a guy there who told me that he had called the FSDO claiming to be
an RV-6 pilot planning a trip into Santa Barbara and wanting to know if
there was going to be a problem. He was assured that there's no problem
and not to worry about the memo. I told the rep that I figure it's all
well and good to say that they won't enforce it, but how about later
when they change their mind about that. I also told him that the real
issue is the local setting of standards which may conflict with those in
other areas and a discriminatory restriction on one category of
aircraft. He said that there probably wouldn't be much happening about
it at AOPA until after the holidays, but that he'd get back to me.
Well, it's out in the open now and the lines are drawn. After they
issued our new oplims, the question in my mind was: did the current FSDO
manager support the former manager's policy or was it just an
unwillingness to deal with changing the policy? It's pretty obvious that
Swanson is not a friend to homebuilders. He isn't going to make it easy
for new homebuilt aircraft in his area. He can't do much about existing
ones so he's not going to fight us on that, although they did try to
hold up our oplims until I screamed.
Doesn't it sound like he's threatening more ramp checks, though? If you
are ramp checked, I bet the inspector can find a way to violate you if
he wants to bad enough. Read your oplims again, folks. Ours, issued in
'98, were definitely more restrictive than the new ones. Make sure that
all your required paperwork is in the plane and correct, just in case.
Pax,
Ed Holyoke
* -----Original Message-----
From: SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com [mailto:SoCAL-RVlist(at)yahoogroups.com]
* Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 6:21 AM
Subject: [SoCAL-RVlist] VNY FSDO
http://www.avweb.com/eletter/archives/avflash/537-full.html#191233
Looks like the EAA is at work for Ed.
_____
* Visit your group "SoCAL-RVlist
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SoCAL-RVlist> " on the web.
* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
SoCAL-RVlist-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> Terms of Service.
_____
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Connecting Blue Mountain EFIS lite to Pictorial Pilot
From:
"Jim Ellis" <JEllis9847(at)aol.com>
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
Blue Mountain Avionics has discovered that the Serial B port on the G3 Lite is
inoperative. Regardless of the settings placed in the Setup window there is no
output from the unit on this pinout. There is no GPSS or NMEA-0183 information
sent even if one selects "none" on the Serial A port.
This means that, in spite of the fact that the Install Manual clearly states that
you can drive a Trutrak autopilot with the G3 using the settings provided,
the G3 Lite efis is incapable at this time of providing the needed information.
BMA has told me that that have looked at the BIOS software and cannot find the
cause of the problem and they are now looking at the hardware as the source of
the malfunction.
Jim Ellis
RV9-A, Flying
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59088#59088
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
Charlie,
I used Goodyear because at the time they were readily available to me.
I have not kept up with the airplane tire market, so I cannot recommend
any other brand. I will say, however, that the performance and service
life on my RV8 with the Goodyear Custom III has been excellent.
As near as I can tell, I gained about 5 knots with the Sam James wheel
pants. I flight tested both pants and the James pants are faster.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: Charlie Kuss
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 30, 2006 7:04 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
Dick
Two questions.
Can you recommend any other name brand tires besides Goodyear?
What speed gain did you see by using the Sam James wheel pants?
Charlie Kuss
Derrick,
When I built my RV8 in 1999, I experimented with several wheelpant
and tire variations. My objective was to obtain the most speed and the
least drag possible. I found out that when I used any of the various
cheap tires, I needed at least a 1/2 inch clearance around the tire
casing, because when landing etc. the cheap tires would expand and rub
the wheelpant. I solved the problem by installing Goodyear Custom III
tires and tubes. The Custom III series has a much stiffer tred and side
casing and holds its shape even with a hard landing. Note: the lower
(closer to ground) you install the wheel pant, the faster you will go.
I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam
James pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked
better.
Good luck with your project.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
1350 hours - it gets better every day
----- Original Message -----
From: Derrick Aubuchon
To: RV List
Sent: Tuesday, August 29, 2006 9:44 AM
Subject: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
I am replacing (finally!) my original, old style wheel fairings,
for Van's "new" Pressure Recovery fairings.
Any ideas on what works best for a minimal tire-to-faring
clearance around the lower opening?
Thanks,
Derrick L. Aubuchon
RV-4: N184DA (450+ hrs)
Jackson/Westover -Amador County (O70)
n184da(at)volcano.net
com/Navigator?RV-List
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
From:
Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
Gained 5 knots against which wheel pants from Vans? PR or the earlier
boxy ones.
> Charlie,
> I used Goodyear because at the time they were readily available to me.
> I have not kept up with the airplane tire market, so I cannot
> recommend any other brand. I will say, however, that the performance
> and service life on my RV8 with the Goodyear Custom III has been
> excellent.
> As near as I can tell, I gained about 5 knots with the Sam James wheel
> pants. I flight tested both pants and the James pants are faster.
> Dick Martin
> RV8 N233M
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Iridite Wanted to Buy
From:
"messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Sep 02, 2006
I'm looking to buy a couple pounds of iridite from somebody. I've used a gallon
of Alodine and am just getting started. My research on iridite a few months ago
came up with only a few sources. I'd have to buy 10# and pay a lot for shipping.
I'm in Bellingham, WA
If that's not possible, maybe you could let me know of some retail sources?
Thanks,
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59154#59154
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject:
XM Antenna through Fiberglass?
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
I have had success mounting the GPS antenna under the fiberglass cowl,
so I thought I'd try it with my XM antenna. It seems to work, but not
as well. The weather seems to take longer to download and the music is
spotty at times. I don't know if it is because I have it close to the
baffles and it may be blocking reception during climbs in certain
directions, or if it is because of the fiberglass.
Has anyone had success mounting theirs under fiberglass?? Does anyone
know if it should work?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 building
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
In a message dated 9/3/06 2:03:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer(at)yahoo.com writes:
> I'm looking to buy a couple pounds of iridite from somebody. I've used a
> gallon of Alodine and am just getting started. My research on iridite a few
> months ago came up with only a few sources. I'd have to buy 10# and pay a
lot
> for shipping. I'm in Bellingham, WA
>
> If that's not possible, maybe you could let me know of some retail sources?
>
> Thanks,
> Dan
=============================
Dan:
POUNDS ! ! !
One (1) ounce makes 10 Gallons
I'll check and see if I have any left in powder form.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Dan:
A late PS:
You probably know this already ... But check under Chemical Conversion
Coating.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
"Tim Bryan" <flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.com>
Subject:
Relocating plane prior to phase one complete
Hi Listers,
I am planning to move to Texas from Oregon in mid to late October. My pl
ane
will have been inspected and maybe 15 hours flown off by then. I asked m
y
DAR if I could get a ferry permit to move it to Texas. Since it crosses
several teritorries, he was not certain. Has anybody ever done this?
I definately want to have enough time on the plane to be comfortable and
have any issues worked out. But will need to establish a new phase one a
rea
once it is relocated.
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
From:
"messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
Thanks, Barry!
MacDermid's documentation says to use 0.75 to 2.25 ounces per gallon.
I look forward to hearing about what you have :-)
And thanks fot the search tip. Hadn't tried that.
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59184#59184
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
In a message dated 9/3/06 10:00:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
messydeer(at)yahoo.com writes:
> Thanks, Barry!
>
> MacDermid's documentation says to use 0.75 to 2.25 ounces per gallon.
>
> I look forward to hearing about what you have :-)
>
> And thanks fot the search tip. Hadn't tried that.
>
> Dan
>
=======================
Dan:
There are different CLASSes of Chem Film. They are determined by color and
time. You can either use a low concentration say 1 oz for 10 Gal and let tit
sit for a long time or double it for a shorter time. One other very important
factor is TEMPERATURE. The solution is mixed hot and used warm. See the
instructions for temps. Also, DD (Distilled & De-Ionizied) water is best but not
very practical. Filter the water if you can, Minerals (Iron, Salt and
Chlorine) affect the quality of the film.
And...for some crazy reason SUNLIGHT weakens the solution so keep it covered.
A dark plastic tarp works.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
"Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
time."
Yamashiada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
<chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Barry,
Try again. One POUND of Alodine 1201 or Iridite 14-2 will make 10 to 13 gallons
of liquid. I really like making it from the powder, as you can control the
strength of the solution. The powder also costs less than $2 per gallon, versus
$25 per gallon for the liquid version.
Charlie Kuss
---- FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/3/06 2:03:43 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> messydeer(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > I'm looking to buy a couple pounds of iridite from somebody. I've used a
> > gallon of Alodine and am just getting started. My research on iridite a few
> > months ago came up with only a few sources. I'd have to buy 10# and pay a
> lot
> > for shipping. I'm in Bellingham, WA
> >
> > If that's not possible, maybe you could let me know of some retail sources?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Dan
> =============================
> Dan:
>
> POUNDS ! ! !
>
> One (1) ounce makes 10 Gallons
>
> I'll check and see if I have any left in powder form.
>
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
>
> "Show them the first time, correct them the second time, kick them the third
> time."
> Yamashiada
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
<chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
---- messydeer wrote:
>
> Thanks, Barry!
>
> MacDermid's documentation says to use 0.75 to 2.25 ounces per gallon.
>
> I look forward to hearing about what you have :-)
>
> And thanks fot the search tip. Hadn't tried that.
>
> Dan
Dan & Listers,
Just an FYI about mixing Alodine or Iridite. Mixing it towards the weak end of
the recommended scale, will reduce the solution's storage life, greatly slow
the chemical reaction time, plus leave you with more solution to dispose of. 1.5
to 2.25 ounces per gallon works well and will give a storage life (once converted
to liquid) of about 2 years.
Remember that these chemicals are photo chemically reactive. Don't use them outside
in the sun light, or store them exposed to light. That will ruin the chemicals.
Use them in the shade or in the garage with all the doors and windows
open.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
From:
"messydeer" <messydeer(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
Thanks for the tips, again, Barry.
I had talked with Henkel before using alodine. They had mentioned it could be recycled.
What I found was that as I reused the solution, it took a longer dwell
time to get the same results. So I ended up adding straight alodine to the recycled
solution. So I'd like to be prepared to use solutions on the stronger
side to speed up the process, especially since the baths will be tap water cold.
I supposed I could use hot water to start with, but it would cool quite a bit
anyway before finishing my parts for the day.
Charlie:
Where do you get your powder?
Dan
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59194#59194
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject:
XM Antenna through Fiberglass?
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
MessageI had one in my KR-2 under the fiberglass turtledeck and it worked
fine. I would worry more about the heat than anything under the cowl.
Brian Kraut
Engineering Alternatives, Inc.
www.engalt.com
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Mike Kraus
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 8:15 AM
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Subject: RV-List: XM Antenna through Fiberglass?
I have had success mounting the GPS antenna under the fiberglass cowl, so
I thought I'd try it with my XM antenna. It seems to work, but not as well.
The weather seems to take longer to download and the music is spotty at
times. I don't know if it is because I have it close to the baffles and it
may be blocking reception during climbs in certain directions, or if it is
because of the fiberglass.
Has anyone had success mounting theirs under fiberglass?? Does anyone
know if it should work?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 building
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
<chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
---- FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com wrote:
>
> In a message dated 9/3/06 10:00:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> messydeer(at)yahoo.com writes:
>
> > Thanks, Barry!
> >
> > MacDermid's documentation says to use 0.75 to 2.25 ounces per gallon.
> >
> > I look forward to hearing about what you have :-)
> >
> > And thanks fot the search tip. Hadn't tried that.
> >
> > Dan
> >
> =======================
> Dan:
>
> There are different CLASSes of Chem Film. They are determined by color and
> time. You can either use a low concentration say 1 oz for 10 Gal and let tit
> sit for a long time or double it for a shorter time. One other very important
> factor is TEMPERATURE. The solution is mixed hot and used warm. See the
> instructions for temps. Also, DD (Distilled & De-Ionizied) water is best but
not
> very practical. Filter the water if you can, Minerals (Iron, Salt and
> Chlorine) affect the quality of the film.
> And...for some crazy reason SUNLIGHT weakens the solution so keep it covered.
> A dark plastic tarp works.
>
> Barry
> "Chop'd Liver"
Barry,
One of my friends mixed up a batch of Iridite 14-2 (1 pound to 10 gallons). He
used it in his driveway, outside during a 90 degree summer day in S Florida.
All his parts turned out great that day. However, the next day, the solution was
worthless. Use this stuff in the shade only.
Charlie Kuss
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
<chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
---- messydeer wrote:
>
> Thanks for the tips, again, Barry.
>
> I had talked with Henkel before using alodine. They had mentioned it could be
recycled. What I found was that as I reused the solution, it took a longer dwell
time to get the same results. So I ended up adding straight alodine to the
recycled solution. So I'd like to be prepared to use solutions on the stronger
side to speed up the process, especially since the baths will be tap water cold.
I supposed I could use hot water to start with, but it would cool quite a
bit anyway before finishing my parts for the day.
>
> Charlie:
>
> Where do you get your powder?
>
> Dan
Dan,
I live in SE Florida (corrosion capital of the world). I checked with Henkel Corp
(makers of Alodine) My nearest distributer was in the Atlanta, Georgia area.
I then checked with MacDirmid Corp. They have a distributer about 25 miles
from me.
Allied Plating Supply of Hialeah, (north of Miami). I'll send you more detailed
info on them when I get home, later today.
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
Ed Godfrey <egodfrey(at)ameritech.net>
Subject:
Re: AOPA Solicitation?
Rick,
I had received a similar call about 6 months ago, but I do not
believe that it got to the part about requesting a credit card.
Ed Godfrey
Rick Galati wrote:
> Has anyone else received a recent phone call supposedly from the AOPA
> asking for a donation? Often citing the AOPA's around the country
> seminars and on-line courses as expensive undertakings needing
> financial support, it all sounded so proper until "Brian" asked me
> to provide him with my credit card number so he could process my
> donation with a minimum of hassle. When I declined and instead
> suggested he send the donation request via snail mail, "Brian"
> expressed a sense of urgency and said my donation should be received
> by the AOPA no later than Sept. 5 and he would send out the donation
> letter immediately. That was several days ago. For being in such a
> rush, I wonder why I have yet to receive an official request from the
> AOPA. Being cynical by nature, I have to wonder if the phone call was
> a legitimate request or just another sophisticated attempt by bottom
> feeders to prey upon the unwary? With the Labor Day weekend upon us,
> my attempts at contacting the AOPA by telephone for confirmation have
> proved fruitless.
>
> Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla"
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
"Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Need to keep your alodine solution warm? Use an aquarium heater. All
the wetted component are plastic or glass. Buy a 1000w unit and it
should keep your solution warm and with no shock hazard.
Chuck Jensen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
> Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:34 AM
> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> Subject: RV-List: Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
>
>
>
> Thanks for the tips, again, Barry.
>
> I had talked with Henkel before using alodine. They had
> mentioned it could be recycled. What I found was that as I
> reused the solution, it took a longer dwell time to get the
> same results. So I ended up adding straight alodine to the
> recycled solution. So I'd like to be prepared to use
> solutions on the stronger side to speed up the process,
> especially since the baths will be tap water cold. I supposed
> I could use hot water to start with, but it would cool quite
> a bit anyway before finishing my parts for the day.
>
> Charlie:
>
> Where do you get your powder?
>
> Dan
>
>
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59194#59194
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Dan
This past April I discovered a Canadian company who sells Powdered
Alodine in 4oz tubes. This will make 2 to 2.5 gallons of liquid
Alodine. Here is a web link to their Canadian & American distributors.
http://www.endura.ca/adobe/uslist.pdfhttp://www.endura.ca/adobe/canadalist.pdf
Charlie Kuss
PS You might ask on the RV List if anyone local to you has some of
the powder they would sell. Or ask if a few guys would be willing to
split a 10 pound batch. That's how we do it down here.
>
>I'm looking to buy a couple pounds of iridite from somebody. I've
>used a gallon of Alodine and am just getting started. My research on
>iridite a few months ago came up with only a few sources. I'd have
>to buy 10# and pay a lot for shipping. I'm in Bellingham, WA
>
>If that's not possible, maybe you could let me know of some retail sources?
>
>Thanks,
>Dan
>
>
>Read this topic online here:
>
>http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59154#59154
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
From:
"Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
I got my iridite powder from Eldorado Chemical...the chemical cost itself
for a can was reasonable but the hazmat shipping charge is what makes it
expensive. If you call them they will have a rep in your area sell it to
you.
http://www.eldoradochem.com/conversion-coatings.htm#Dorado-Kote-1
Regards,
Bob
On 9/3/06, messydeer wrote:
>
>
> Thanks for the tips, again, Barry.
>
> I had talked with Henkel before using alodine. They had mentioned it could
> be recycled. What I found was that as I reused the solution, it took a
> longer dwell time to get the same results. So I ended up adding straight
> alodine to the recycled solution. So I'd like to be prepared to use
> solutions on the stronger side to speed up the process, especially since the
> baths will be tap water cold. I supposed I could use hot water to start
> with, but it would cool quite a bit anyway before finishing my parts for the
> day.
>
> Charlie:
>
> Where do you get your powder?
>
> Dan
>
>
> Read this topic online here:
>
> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59194#59194
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
quick question, if I am only going to spray this only on the outside of my
rv9a
before primer and paint , how much is needed ?.. and is it needed at all ?
Danny..
----- Original Message -----
From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
>
>
> ---- FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com wrote:
>>
>> In a message dated 9/3/06 10:00:51 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
>> messydeer(at)yahoo.com writes:
>>
>> > Thanks, Barry!
>> >
>> > MacDermid's documentation says to use 0.75 to 2.25 ounces per gallon.
>> >
>> > I look forward to hearing about what you have :-)
>> >
>> > And thanks fot the search tip. Hadn't tried that.
>> >
>> > Dan
>> >
>> =======================
>> Dan:
>>
>> There are different CLASSes of Chem Film. They are determined by color
>> and
>> time. You can either use a low concentration say 1 oz for 10 Gal and let
>> tit
>> sit for a long time or double it for a shorter time. One other very
>> important
>> factor is TEMPERATURE. The solution is mixed hot and used warm. See the
>> instructions for temps. Also, DD (Distilled & De-Ionizied) water is best
>> but not
>> very practical. Filter the water if you can, Minerals (Iron, Salt and
>> Chlorine) affect the quality of the film.
>> And...for some crazy reason SUNLIGHT weakens the solution so keep it
>> covered.
>> A dark plastic tarp works.
>>
>> Barry
>> "Chop'd Liver"
>
> Barry,
> One of my friends mixed up a batch of Iridite 14-2 (1 pound to 10
> gallons). He used it in his driveway, outside during a 90 degree summer
> day in S Florida. All his parts turned out great that day. However, the
> next day, the solution was worthless. Use this stuff in the shade only.
> Charlie Kuss
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject:
Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date:
Sep 03, 2006
I had Vans later style round profile "pressure recovery" wheel pants, not
the old style
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Gray" <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 12:03 AM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings
>
> Gained 5 knots against which wheel pants from Vans? PR or the earlier
> boxy ones.
>
>> Charlie,
>> I used Goodyear because at the time they were readily available to me.
>> I have not kept up with the airplane tire market, so I cannot
>> recommend any other brand. I will say, however, that the performance
>> and service life on my RV8 with the Goodyear Custom III has been
>> excellent.
>> As near as I can tell, I gained about 5 knots with the Sam James wheel
>> pants. I flight tested both pants and the James pants are faster.
>> Dick Martin
>> RV8 N233M
>
>>
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Elie Curetti" <elie.curetti(at)tmgmedia.com>
Subject:
For Sale: RV-7 Empennage in Paris / France, new never opened
+ Avery Toolkit with pneumatic rivet squeezer
Date:
Sep 04, 2006
(sorry to US listers - this is a post for European readers)
Hello,
Unfortunately, I will not be able to start my RV as I planned to, because of
work and family constraints. I am selling everything you need to get
started. Everything is in its original box, and was never opened.
Sale price: current USD price, converted in Euros at today's exchange rate
(1USD = EUR 0.78). You save freight costs and VAT !
1. Empennage: $ 1,755 = EUR 1,368
2. Avery Toolkit: $3,009 = EUR 2,347
3. Misc stuff for your workshop: $ 300 = EUR 234
Total: 3,949 Euros. Located in Versailles (10 miles from Paris) in France.
1. RV-7 Empennage with Electric Elevator Trim option
New price: $1755 = EUR 1,368 (see here:
<http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/rv77a_qb_order_form.pdf>
http://www.vansaircraft.com/pdf/rv77a_qb_order_form.pdf)
2. Complete Avery RV Builders Toolkit 3x, with pneumatic rivet squeezer, 3
yokes and several additions recommended by expert builders:
(see here:
https://www.cart.averytools.com/pc-689-68-rv-builders-tool-kit-with-3x-rivet
-gun.aspx)
1 RV builders toolkit with 3x gun (#kit-016) $2160
+ I have added:
1 Pneumatic squeezer with 3'' yoke (#7530) - $625
1 Adjustable set holder (#274) - $65
1 Longeron yoke (#7755) - $140
1 Thin nose yoke (#7760) - $145
1 Quick change yoke pins (#7795) - $6
1 Cleco pliers (#200) - $7.50 (additional one, so someone can help)
1 Hex adapter for deburring, with cutter (#59010) - $24
1 scotch brite wheel (#3753) -$57
1 Mandrel for Scotch brite (#934) - $16.50
1 chip chaser (#5105) - $10
1 plate nut drill jig (#1180) - $36
1 Boelube dry (#7090) - $3.5
1 box of 20 Scotch Brite pads (#7447B) - $28 (as replacement of the 5 box)
1 3m Riveting Tape (#3507) - $7 (additional)
1 Noxon Punch (#3200-1) - $13
Following items have been removed from the standard kit:
- Aircraft Sheet Metal book
- Hand squeezer
- 5 Scotchbrite pads (#7447)
Total: $ 3343, less 10% discount: $3,009 = EUR 2,347
3. Workshop stuff
I bought various compressor accessories, pneumatic connectors, lines, tools,
etc. I don't have the exact list but roughly:
1 paint gun
2 long pneumatic lines (100ft)
1 little pneumatic line
1 compressor starter kit
2 wall mount for compressor lines
Numerous connectors: T / Male Female / Quick connects / swiver, etc.
Water Oil separator
Die Grinder with 10 discs
Torque Wrench
And other stuff
Total: ~USD 300 = EUR 234 (to be confirmed with the precise list).
Contact
Elie Curetti
Phone: from France: 06 66 60 70 80 / outside France: +33 6 66 60 70 80
Email: elie.curetti(at)tmgmedia.com
I am really sad to sell my kit :-(
Elie
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Steve & Denise" <sjhdcl(at)kingston.net>
Subject:
Re: XM Antenna through Fiberglass?
Date:
Sep 04, 2006
I had mine under the VS fairing and it didn't work well at all.
XM should and does work under fiberglass but as you experienced the signal
is degraded.
Also try and not splice the antenna wire. Its hard since the connector is
larger but I replaced my XM
antenna with one that was not spliced and placed it on my windshield. The
reception is perfect.
Not only is the tiny wire hard to work into a connector, but the shielding
must be kept in place.
Steve
RV7A
Flying
I have had success mounting the GPS antenna under the fiberglass cowl,
so I thought I'd try it with my XM antenna. It seems to work, but not
as well. The weather seems to take longer to download and the music is
spotty at times. I don't know if it is because I have it close to the
baffles and it may be blocking reception during climbs in certain
directions, or if it is because of the fiberglass.
Has anyone had success mounting theirs under fiberglass?? Does anyone
know if it should work?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 building
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject:
Forward Baggage Compartment Temperatures
Date:
Sep 04, 2006
Yesterday I measured a 110 degree Fahrenheit temperature close to the
firewall in the forward baggage compartment of my RV8A. The method was to
tape the wire lead of the outdoor sensor of an indoor/outdoor digital
thermometer to the firewall so that the sensor was held close but not
actually in contact with the firewall. Upon return from a half hour flight,
I just opened the baggage compartment door and read the temperature about 5
minutes after landing. I also know that plastic bubble wrap which was in
contact with the firewall did not melt and that although you can touch the
firewall, it feels pretty hot. Outside air temp was 75 degrees F.
Does anyone else have any information on the temperatures likely to be
experienced by baggage stowed in this area?
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 04, 2006
From:
Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject:
Re: Alodine/Iridite accessories was Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Chuck
That's a great tip, although keeping the solution warm is not a
problem here in SE Florida. For the rest of the listers, I will
suggest another item to buy while you are at the aquarium supply
store. Buy an aquarium pump. This will aid in transferring the
AlumiPrep and Alodine back to your storage buckets. I keep my
chemicals in 5 gallon plastic buckets with sealing lids, like the
ones that paint and dry wall spackle are sold in.
You can buy the buckets at Home Depot or Lowes. I get mine for free
from a friend. He has a home remodeling business and is happy to give
them to me. If you have a friend in the business, bum his excess
buckets from him. You might also try looking in the dumpster behind
your local house painter's shop.
Charlie Kuss
>
>Need to keep your alodine solution warm? Use an aquarium heater. All
>the wetted component are plastic or glass. Buy a 1000w unit and it
>should keep your solution warm and with no shock hazard.
>
>Chuck Jensen
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer
> > Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 10:34 AM
> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
> > Subject: RV-List: Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks for the tips, again, Barry.
> >
> > I had talked with Henkel before using alodine. They had
> > mentioned it could be recycled. What I found was that as I
> > reused the solution, it took a longer dwell time to get the
> > same results. So I ended up adding straight alodine to the
> > recycled solution. So I'd like to be prepared to use
> > solutions on the stronger side to speed up the process,
> > especially since the baths will be tap water cold. I supposed
> > I could use hot water to start with, but it would cool quite
> > a bit anyway before finishing my parts for the day.
> >
> > Charlie:
> >
> > Where do you get your powder?
> >
> > Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Read this topic online here:
> >
> > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59194#59194
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 04, 2006
Subject:
Re: Alodine/Iridite accessories was Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
In a message dated 9/4/2006 8:01:12 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
chaztuna(at)adelphia.net writes:
That's a great tip, although keeping the solution warm is not a problem here
in SE Florida. For the rest of the listers, I will suggest another item to
buy while you are at the aquarium supply store. Buy an aquarium pump. This
will aid in transferring the AlumiPrep and Alodine back to your storage buckets.
I keep my chemicals in 5 gallon plastic buckets with sealing lids, like the
ones that paint and dry wall spackle are sold in.
===============================
Another thing to get at the aquarium store is an aerating stone. The
solution needs oxygen to maintain its properties for performing the conversion
of
the surface. This is the property that gets lost first (dissolved oxygen) or
so I'm told.
GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 807hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 04, 2006
From:
Raymond Wallace <rawmailman(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Prop Extension Trade?
I have a 3 inch spool type prop extension with a 4 1/2 in bolt pattern with 3/8
in bolts. I need a 4 inch spool type prop extension with a 4 3/4 in bolt pattern
with 3/8 in bolts. I will pay all shipping plus a little extra if needed.
Raymond Wallace
RV-4 in Progress
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
Scott Kuebler <scottkuebler(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
For Sale - RV-6 / 6a kit
RV-6 / 6a kit for sale.
Empennage: Complete except for fiberglass tips. Includes electric elevator
trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Marhyde primer.
Wings & Phlogiston Spar: Main wings are complete, bottom skins ready for final
riveting. Both tanks are complete and sealed. Flaps and ailerons complete,
but not installed. Includes electric aileron trim kit. All parts are alodined
and primed with Deft epoxy primer (Mil-P-23377G).
Both kits are the pre-punched versions purchased in 1997 & 1998 by myself. Construction
is excellent. Preview plans and Orndorff videos are included for
both kits.
Price: $3900
If all items were purchased separately the price would be more than $6500 for
unassembled kits.
Scott Kuebler
Buffalo, NY
716-695-1987 home
716-510-0318 cell
scottkuebler(at)yahoo.com
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Relocating plane prior to phase one complete
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Tim,
Call me at (503) 615-3237 and I will give you a hand to get a Ferry permit
to Texas.
Mike Robertson
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:54:40 -0700From: flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.comTo: rv-
list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV-List: Relocating plane prior to phase one com
plete
Hi Listers,
I am planning to move to Texas from Oregon in mid to late October. My plan
e will have been inspected and maybe 15 hours flown off by then. I asked m
y DAR if I could get a ferry permit to move it to Texas. Since it crosses
several teritorries, he was not certain. Has anybody ever done this?
I definately want to have enough time on the plane to be comfortable and ha
ve any issues worked out. But will need to establish a new phase one area
once it is relocated.
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
_________________________________________________________________
Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo!
http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=7adb59de-a857-45ba-81cc-
685ee3e858fe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Subject:
10 Vane Oil Cooler
Hey Flight:
Who is the manufacture and what is the part number for the 10 Vane Oil Cooler
used on the RV-6 with an O-360?
Thanks for the feedback,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Subject:
Re: EIS faceplate
From:
James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Garry,
Try "Steinair.com" in Minn. He has it on his web site
Jim
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject:
rudder trim
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Trying to install rudder trim with some kind of spring bias on an RV4. Any
ideas(especially pictures) would be appreciated.
Thanks
John Furey
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
"Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Re: rudder trim
John,
I saw something in a paper write-up where someone installed a cable with springs
from each of their right side pedals. It went forward to and then up the firewall
with springs in the middle initially to keep tension. IIRC they later
incorporated something electrical (MAC servo maybe) to bias the springs and provide
electrical trim capability.
I'll try to remember to find it....
Ralph
-----Original Message-----
>From: John Furey <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
>Sent: Sep 5, 2006 12:47 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: rudder trim
>
>Trying to install rudder trim with some kind of spring bias on an RV4. Any
>ideas(especially pictures) would be appreciated.
>
>Thanks
>John Furey
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Knicholas2(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
I have nothing but GOOD experiences with Aircraft Spruce. Give 'em another
chance...
Kim Nicholas
RV9A 120 hours.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Roger Crandell" <rwc000(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
It appears VisionMicro has moved and may have been sold by JP Instruments.
If you call VM, their is a recording that gives you a new number
830-750-6330 and states they have moved. The recording does say where.
When you call the new number you get a recoring and so far no one has
returned my calls.
Does anyone know what is happeing with VM?
Roger Crandell
N125RV
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
First Flight N95BF
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Bryan,
CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !!
Chuck & Dave Rowbotham
RV-8A
>From: "Bryan Flood" <bryanflood(at)hotmail.com>
>Subject: RV-List: First Flight N95BF
>Date: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 15:59:33 -0500
>
>Well after almost 6 years of building another RV has flown
>and returned to earth safely. The first flight of my RV-9A occurred
>last Friday night about 6 pm lasted a hour.
>Bryan Flood
>N95BF (0.6 hours)
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject:
Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
VM has not been sold, they have just moved their service department to JPI.
Bruce
www.glasair.org
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Crandell
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:48 PM
Subject: RV-List: Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
It appears VisionMicro has moved and may have been sold by JP Instruments.
If you call VM, their is a recording that gives you a new number
830-750-6330 and states they have moved. The recording does say where.
When you call the new number you get a recoring and so far no one has
returned my calls.
Does anyone know what is happeing with VM?
Roger Crandell
N125RV
_________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
"Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
The Vision Microsystems website says a JPI company.
-----Original Message-----
>From: Bruce Gray <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
>Sent: Sep 5, 2006 4:12 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
>
>
>VM has not been sold, they have just moved their service department to JPI.
>
>Bruce
>www.glasair.org
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Roger Crandell
>Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 2:48 PM
>To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
>Subject: RV-List: Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
>
>
>It appears VisionMicro has moved and may have been sold by JP Instruments.
>If you call VM, their is a recording that gives you a new number
>830-750-6330 and states they have moved. The recording does say where.
>When you call the new number you get a recoring and so far no one has
>returned my calls.
>
>Does anyone know what is happeing with VM?
>
>Roger Crandell
>N125RV
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:
>
>
>
> Hi:
>
> I have tried for the past two weeks, to call Spruce, to place a small order.
>
> This is not exageration, I have made at least eight calls, Starting
> at 12:00 my time, East Coast...to 4:30 PM..
>
> No one ever answers, I have hold at one time for 3 minutes...
What number are you trying to call?
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
rv6160hp(at)aol.com
Subject:
KFZY RV Forum, RV10 & Mike Seager planning to attend
Hey Listers
KFZY Oswego NY 12th annual RV FORUM....
YUP....it is comming this weekend....see you there...
Factory RV10 and Mike Seager scheduled to be there...
As well as the usual 30 to 50+ assorted RV's in and out...
For more info check it out at:
http://www.eaachapter486.com/RVInfo.htm
486's home website
http://www.eaachapter486.com
Regards
David McManmon
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Subject:
Re: Engine tune up
In a message dated 9/5/06 2:25:55 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
bertrv6(at)highstream.net writes:
>
> Is there any thing else to be done??
=============================
WOW! This a a total open ended question....
What is the history of the engine?
Is it as new as the 30 hours?
Have you tried different fuel?
Are yo sure of the octane of the fuel?
Is there or has there been WATER in the fuel?
How long has the engine sat?
Is there in line filters coming from each tank BEFORE it gets to the Boos
Pump (found this to be a problem in a friends plane - It needed better filtering
than that LOUSY gascolator and Carb Filter)?
How are the wires?
How good is your friend or you with the timing box? Having one is not enough.
So many questions so little time.
Does this give you some ideas on how to begin your diagnostics?
A two item check is only the beginning.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
BERTRV6(at)highstream.net
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
Quoting Sam Buchanan :
>
> bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi:
> >
> > I have tried for the past two weeks, to call Spruce, to place a small
> order.
> >
> > This is not exageration, I have made at least eight calls, Starting
> > at 12:00 my time, East Coast...to 4:30 PM..
> >
> > No one ever answers, I have hold at one time for 3 minutes...
>
>
> What number are you trying to call?
>
> Sam Buchanan
> SAM; I TRIED BOTH, I DO NOT MIND TO PAY FOR THE CALL, IF I CAN
GET SOME ONE TO ANSWER.
ONE IS THE 1.877 477.7823 and regular one 951.372.9555
I know they are not the fastest to answer the telephone, but for pete's sake
2 weeks, waiting for up to 3 minutes, and no answer , just the commercial
and the you know,...all agents are busy but your call is important to us etc..
I think, maybe the mgt, does not know about this...if we complaint,
maybe the will change...
Hope so.,, we need them.... ON THE OTHER SIDE WICKS IS EXCELLENT ON THIS..
FAST ON THE PHONE, AND TWICE AS FAST ON SHIPPING... BUT THEY DON"T ALWAYS
HAVE THE SAME THINGS ACS HAS...THEY ARE SAMALLER IN SOMES RESPECT...
WELL WE WILL SEE IF MY LETTER WOULD HELP..
BERT
RV6A
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
I order on their website. No problems.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Roger Crandell" <rwc000(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
I spoke with VM only a week ago. Friday and today when I called I heard a
recording stating VM has moved. The new number given in the recording is
830-755-6330. I called the new number and received another recording. I
left a message at the new number on Friday and have heard nothing back. The
new number is in Boerne, Texas near San Antonio. I have unfinished work to
be done on my system and need to contact them. I guess I will wait and hope
someome calls.
Late this afternoon I called JP Instruments and asked what was happening
with VM. I could tell the person knew, but was unwilling to tell me. They
said the Company Controller, Scott, would call me. Scott has not called.
Roger Crandell
_________________________________________________________________
Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE
http://imagine-msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
gert <gert.v(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
sorry to be sarcastic, but, 3 whole minutes, jeez.....
BERTRV6(at)highstream.net wrote:
>
> Quoting Sam Buchanan :
>
>
>>
>> bertrv6(at)highstream.net wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi:
>>>
>>> I have tried for the past two weeks, to call Spruce, to place a small
>>>
>> order.
>>
>>> This is not exageration, I have made at least eight calls, Starting
>>> at 12:00 my time, East Coast...to 4:30 PM..
>>>
>>> No one ever answers, I have hold at one time for 3 minutes...
>>>
>> What number are you trying to call?
>>
>> Sam Buchanan
>> SAM; I TRIED BOTH, I DO NOT MIND TO PAY FOR THE CALL, IF I CAN
>>
> GET SOME ONE TO ANSWER.
>
>
> ONE IS THE 1.877 477.7823 and regular one 951.372.9555
>
> I know they are not the fastest to answer the telephone, but for pete's sake
> 2 weeks, waiting for up to 3 minutes, and no answer , just the commercial
> and the you know,...all agents are busy but your call is important to us etc..
>
> I think, maybe the mgt, does not know about this...if we complaint,
> maybe the will change...
>
> Hope so.,, we need them.... ON THE OTHER SIDE WICKS IS EXCELLENT ON THIS..
>
> FAST ON THE PHONE, AND TWICE AS FAST ON SHIPPING... BUT THEY DON"T ALWAYS
> HAVE THE SAME THINGS ACS HAS...THEY ARE SAMALLER IN SOMES RESPECT...
>
> WELL WE WILL SEE IF MY LETTER WOULD HELP..
>
> BERT
>
> RV6A
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------
Pursuant to US Code, Title 47, Chapter 5, Subchapter II, '227,
any and all nonsolicited commercial E-mail sent to this address
is subject to a download and archival fee in the amount of $500
US. E-mailing denotes acceptance of these terms.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Subject:
Re: rudder trim
Hi John-
I spent (wasted?) an inordinate amount of effort (just because...) to develop
one of these- see:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4968
...for my take on the whole thing. In the end I opted (mostly for safety
reasons: what happens when one of the springs breaks or comes
un-attached/bound/etc.?) to adhere to the KISS thing and left it unconnected for
phase I and
didn't need it anyway. Rudder bias on departure for p-factor? "You put yer right
foot in and you..."
FWIW as usual From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips RV-6A "Mojo" 350 hours pure grin time...
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject:
Re: Forward Baggage Compartment Temperatures
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Dave,
Suggest you consider insulating the firewall with 3M Vibration Dampinng Tape
or equivalent. This will provide a fire barrier and also reduce temps to
normal cabin temps. This is a standard insulation for aircraft and is
readily available.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:50 AM
Subject: RV-List: Forward Baggage Compartment Temperatures
>
> Yesterday I measured a 110 degree Fahrenheit temperature close to the
> firewall in the forward baggage compartment of my RV8A. The method was to
> tape the wire lead of the outdoor sensor of an indoor/outdoor digital
> thermometer to the firewall so that the sensor was held close but not
> actually in contact with the firewall. Upon return from a half hour
> flight,
> I just opened the baggage compartment door and read the temperature about
> 5
> minutes after landing. I also know that plastic bubble wrap which was in
> contact with the firewall did not melt and that although you can touch the
> firewall, it feels pretty hot. Outside air temp was 75 degrees F.
>
> Does anyone else have any information on the temperatures likely to be
> experienced by baggage stowed in this area?
>
> Dave Reel - RV8A
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject:
Re: Cylinders: ECI vs Superior or Others
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
FWIW just installed an engine with 171 hrs on Superior cylinders, and
had to take #4 in for OH after lapping both valves. Rings wore out and
piston scraping cyl wall. Superior said SORRY/ Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
J2j3h4(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
Subject:
RV 7 Wing Kit For Sale
Would the person who called me sometime around August 20 about the RV 7 wing
kit I have for sale please call me again or email me? I've misplaced your
phone number.
Jim Hasper
615-595-4334
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject:
Fuel flow pulsation dampener
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
I have a J P fuel flow/fuel totalizer but are somewhat disappointed in the fuel
flow readings. These fluctuate constantly within a +/- up to 1 gl/hr rate.
Now my installation is not accordingly to the manufactures recommendation which
calls for 6 inches of straight line on the inlet and outlet sides. I attached
the sensor right to the gascolator out side since this seems to be a much sounder
installation scheme.
Questions for those who have been there: Is it worthwhile (time, $) to install
the Dralle dampener??
I do not recall seeing too many post on this subject on the list. Could not find
anything in the achieves.
Lothar, 6A, 650 hrs
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Cylinders: ECI vs Superior or Others
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
I have Superior cylinders s/n 8, 9, 10 , and 11 running for the past almost
9 years and 1,950 hours. Compression is still good and using 1 qt of oil
every 6 hours. About ready to retire them.
Gary A. Sobek
"My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell,
1,950 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA
----Original Message Follows----
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List: Cylinders: ECI vs Superior or Others
Date: Tue, 5 Sep 2006 21:36:54 -0500
FWIW just installed an engine with 171 hrs on Superior cylinders, and had
to take #4 in for OH after lapping both valves. Rings wore out and piston
scraping cyl wall. Superior said SORRY/ Charlie Heathco
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 05, 2006
From:
"David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Relocating plane prior to phase one complete
Why don't you just go spend a good hard weekend or two of flying and burn
off the hours, then do the real flight testing after you get to Texas?
I had a similar situation and got my 40 hrs. flown off in less than 3 weeks
of weekend flying. Proof of durability before your cross country meets the
letter and spitit of the law, expecially if you then continue the testing
later.
Dave Leonard
On 9/3/06, Tim Bryan wrote:
>
>
> Hi Listers,
>
> I am planning to move to Texas from Oregon in mid to late October. My
> plane will have been inspected and maybe 15 hours flown off by then. I
> asked my DAR if I could get a ferry permit to move it to Texas. Since it
> crosses several teritorries, he was not certain. Has anybody ever done
> this?
>
> I definately want to have enough time on the plane to be comfortable and
> have any issues worked out. But will need to establish a new phase one area
> once it is relocated.
>
> Tim
> RV-6
> N616TB
>
> *
>
> *
>
>
--
David Leonard
Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY
My websites at:
http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.htmlhttp://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.htmlhttp://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
From:
Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject:
Re: Fuel flow pulsation dampener
I had a similar, but not quite so high, oscilation on my flow readings.
I installed the dampener and it smoothed things out considerably. It's
not much $ or much work to install, and I recommend it.
Jeff Point
RV-6 flying
RV-8 preview plans
Milwaukee
>*
>*
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
Subject:
Re: Fuel flow pulsation dampener
In a message dated 9/6/06 2:44:29 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net writes:
> I have a J P fuel flow/fuel totalizer but are somewhat disappointed in the
> fuel flow readings. These fluctuate constantly within a +/- up to 1 gl/hr
> rate. Now my installation is not accordingly to the manufactures
> recommendation which calls for 6 inches of straight line on the inlet and
> outlet sides. I attached the sensor right to the gascolator out side since
> this seems to be a much sounder installation scheme.
>
> Questions for those who have been there: Is it worthwhile (time, $) to
> install the Dralle dampener??
> I do not recall seeing too many post on this subject on the list. Could
not
> find anything in the achieves.
>
> Lothar, 6A, 650 hrs
=========================================
Lothar:
I have installed 5 fuel flow totalizes, that extra length of straight run
depends on how you hooked up the fittings. Especially if you did a 90 Deg turn
in fuel flow before entering or leaving the transducer.
I have never used the Dralle Dampener, ONLY a smooth flow of fuel is
required. In one case where a 90 Deg turn was needed I had to fabricate a fitting
with oversized bores and a cut away internal turn. This either reduced or
eliminated internal restriction or caviation.
Questions:
The variance you are seeing, I guess you are seeing it during S&L flight?
How is the accuracy of the instrument on Gallons Remaining?
By playing with the 'k' factor you might take the gage from a borderline
reading into a more stabilized reading without affecting the Gallons Remaining
reading.
Barry
"Chop'd Liver"
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
From:
"Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
Over the past 6 years I have dealt with both companies frequently, literally spending
thousands of dollars to support my addiction. As far as I am concerned,
both Wicks and Spruce are national treasures. Both companies offer excellent
service......generally. In my experience, Spruce's Jim Irwin will personally
contact you relative to customer satisfaction issues or catalog suggestions.
If you would like to see Spruce carry a particular item, by all means.....ask
him....not necessarily the person who answers the phone. The fact that Spruce's
catalog grows ever thicker by the year with a growing inventory of choices
does not happen by accident. Nothing however, is perfect. On occasion, I have
found Spruce's on-line ordering process to be flawed. It can sometimes be difficult
to locate items you know they carry and at times prices are at variance
with those posted in the print catalog. Just yesterday I placed a rather eclectic
order and the on-line check-out cart indicated all the items were in stock.
When the routine order confirmation arrrived via e-mail, it noted one item
on backorder. I consider these to be a very minor frustrations and part of
the price we sometimes pay for the convenience of e-commerce.
As a people, we can be inclined towards instant gratification, the fast food expectation
by another name. Well, homebuilt aircraft construction will puts the
halts to that inclination very quickly. Instant gratification has no place
in our hobby. I have become "almost" comfortable dealing with the frustration
and deferred satisfactions that are an inevitable part of this hobby. Is it
all worth it? Oh Yea....and then some.
Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 165 hours
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59900#59900
________________________________________________________________________________
>Yesterday I had the chance to compare my Lightspeed (LS) Twenty 3G
headsets against a pair of Bose. This is a quick, non-scientific review.
I could detect an improvement in noise reduction with the Bose but
suspect that the difference would be minimal or non-existent with
a pair of LS Thirty 3G headsets (6 db better active noise reduction
than Twenty 3G).
The ear clamping force on the Bose was less which I thought would
make them less effective in reducing noise. I was wrong.
The Bose weighs about 120 grams (4 ounces) less.
The earcup assemblies are about an inch thinner on the Bose.
I did not wear the Bose for the entire flight so I can't make any comments
about it being more comfortable but it is nice. It looks sleeker because of
the smaller earcup assemblies.
Bottom line is that I don't know that it would be worth $400 more than a pair
of LS 30-3Gs.
Ron Lee
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
Relocating plane prior to phase one complete
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
If you get 25 hours on your phase one test flight period then you will need
a minimum of 10 hours and have no mechanical discrepancies. If you have a
40 hours test period then you will need at least 15 hours and have no outs
tanding discrepancies. You will also have to plot a route including all fu
el stops. Needless to say the route must be over sparsely populated areas.
Going from Bend to anywhere in Texas, that shouldn't be a problem.
Mike
Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2006 06:31:06 -0700From: flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.comTo: rv-
list(at)matronics.comSubject: RE: RV-List: Relocating plane prior to phase one
complete
Hi Mike,
Thank You. I am expecting to get my inspection for AW in about two weeks.
I want to fly enough hours to be sure I am comfortable with the plane and
eliminate any squaks. How long do I need to allow to obtain the ferry perm
it?
Thanks
Tim
-------Original Message-------
From: Mike Robertson
Date: 09/05/06 08:15:35
Subject: RE: RV-List: Relocating plane prior to phase one complete
Tim, Call me at (503) 615-3237 and I will give you a hand to get a Ferry p
ermit to Texas. Mike Robertson
Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2006 06:54:40 -0700From: flyrv6(at)bryantechnology.comTo: rv-
list(at)matronics.comSubject: RV-List: Relocating plane prior to phase one com
plete
Hi Listers,
I am planning to move to Texas from Oregon in mid to late October. My plan
e will have been inspected and maybe 15 hours flown off by then. I asked m
y DAR if I could get a ferry permit to move it to Texas. Since it crosses
several teritorries, he was not certain. Has anybody ever done this?
I definately want to have enough time on the plane to be comfortable and ha
ve any issues worked out. But will need to establish a new phase one area
once it is relocated.
Tim
RV-6
N616TB
t=_blank>http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
p://forums.matronics.com
//wiki.matronics.com
blank>http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo! Talk now!
p://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List
onics.com
s.com
ww.matronics.com/contribution
_________________________________________________________________
Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo!
http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=7adb59de-a857-45ba-81cc-
685ee3e858fe
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dane Sheahen" <dane(at)mutualace.com>
Subject:
XM Antenna through Fiberglass?
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
Mike
Do you have metal flake paint on the fiberglass? Dick Martin informed me it
did affect his antennas in his wing tips. I assume it would do the same in
receiving the XM signal
Dane Sheahen
N838RV RV8a
Subject: RV-List: XM Antenna through Fiberglass?
I have had success mounting the GPS antenna under the fiberglass cowl, so I
thought I'd try it with my XM antenna. It seems to work, but not as well.
The weather seems to take longer to download and the music is spotty at
times. I don't know if it is because I have it close to the baffles and it
may be blocking reception during climbs in certain directions, or if it is
because of the fiberglass.
Has anyone had success mounting theirs under fiberglass?? Does anyone know
if it should work?
Thanks
-Mike Kraus
RV-4 flying
RV-10 building
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
From:
Tedd McHenry <tedd(at)vansairforce.org>
Subject:
Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison
I have two pairs of Lightspeed headsets that I'm happy with the performance of.
But earlier this year I had a problem with one and called Lightspeed for help.
I was told that my model is no longer supported and they don't stock parts for
it, but they invited me to upgrade to a newer model.
I really don't think it's too much to ask that a company support and stock
parts for a headset that's less than ten years old, so I wasn't very impressed
with that. Fortunately, the problem turned out to be only a broken wire. But
when an actual Lightspeed part eventually fails the headset will be scrap. I
doubt that would happen with a David Clark, at the same age.
---
Tedd McHenry
Surrey, BC, Canada
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
Subject:
Baggage Compartment Temperatures
From:
James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Hi Dick,
What was that 3M tape you were talking about. I'd like to
explore using it on my fire wall.
Jim Nelson
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject:
Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
I have been quite pleased with Aircraft Spruce over the last couple of
years. A few months ago I screwed up an on-line order and within a few
minutes had an email from them telling me that I had provided an invalid
credit card number. A few minutes later I received a call from them to
straighten it out.
I also see that they now provide virtually instant email quotes on avionics
that they don't show prices for in their catalog.
I get the impression that they have worked hard and successfully to correct
previous inadequacies in their service. Unlike a few years ago, I now like
to buy from them.
Terry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
From:
"Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject:
Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison
On 11:18:51 2006-09-06 "Tim Bryan" wrote:
> At ten years this could very well be the case with your 50K car.
> After ten years the parts start to dry up. Unless the aftermarket
> picks up the molds or it is a component that is available through the
> local auto zone. Tim
Maybe if it's american-made... But i've never had problems obtaining parts
for 15-20 year old japanese cars or motorcycles. Honda always seems to
have parts. You'll just have to pay exorbitant amounts of money for them...
-Rob
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Roger Crandell" <rwc000(at)hotmail.com>
Subject:
RE: Aircraft Spruce terrible Service?
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
I have ordered from ACS for about 6 years and must state they have always
provided me with outstanding service and pricing. Because of my remote
location, I order many items using the internet. ACS is one of, if not the
best I have ever dealt with. How many internet businesses will ship instock
items immediately and later ship the backordered items free of charge?
Roger Crandell
_________________________________________________________________
Got something to buy, sell or swap? Try Windows Live Expo
ttp://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwex0010000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://expo.live.com/
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
From:
Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>I have two pairs of Lightspeed headsets that I'm happy with the performance of.
>But earlier this year I had a problem with one and called Lightspeed for help.
>I was told that my model is no longer supported and they don't stock parts for
>it, but they invited me to upgrade to a newer model.
>
>I really don't think it's too much to ask that a company support and stock
>parts for a headset that's less than ten years old, so I wasn't very impressed
>with that. Fortunately, the problem turned out to be only a broken wire. But
>when an actual Lightspeed part eventually fails the headset will be scrap. I
>doubt that would happen with a David Clark, at the same age.
>
>---
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Surrey, BC, Canada
>
Hi Tedd,
Since I'm the originator of the recent 'rant' controversy, I thought I
might play 'devil's advocate' for a change.
I feel your frustration, since I just went through the exact same issue
with a pair of 20K's (which I bought used, from an individual) and a
pair of 15XL's that I bought new. My experience was that the tech guy
said that they *might* not be able to fix the 20K's; I could trade them
up if I wanted; but send them anyway & they'd take a look. I just got
both sets back today, repaired, no charge, including wear items like the
pads (2nd time, free, on the 15XL's). I was planning to write the list
tonight to praise LS for their excellent service when I read your post.
Here's my 'devil's advocate' position:
When I ran a consumer electronics repair company in a previous life (no
sales; just repair) & we had to tell a customer that their
stereo/tv/vcr/etc wasn't worth fixing, most got really frustrated with
us, even though we didn't sell the product to them. My explanation
usually ran something like, "I know it's only x years old, but you only
paid y dollars for it. If you had paid 3 times y dollars for it, it
would be worth fixing. I think you came out ahead, even though it's hard
to adjust to 'disposable' products." Manufacturers of almost all
products are pushing us into disposable products by jacking up the
replacement parts prices so high they can stay legal (automotive, for
example) by keeping just a couple of parts on a shelf somewhere priced
at half the value of the product. The upside is that most mass produced
products have gotten incredibly inexpensive relative to what they do.
The LS headsets are (mostly) constructed of very inexpensive, often
flimsy, parts. The purchase price, compared to the high end stuff,
reflects it. One of the ways to keep costs down is not restocking custom
parts after changing models (common practice; there's a particular
relatively high dollar GPS brand that quit supplying even database
updates after just 3 or 4 years, a while back). The impressive thing
about LS is that I've never heard of anyone that paid for a repair on
them, no matter what the age. Not so for some of the high end brands.
The $1k brands can probably be fixed 'forever' but it's likely to cost
almost as much as a new pair of LS for each repair.
I can't stop without griping about something; they wouldn't let me trade
in the 20K's on a pair of the new in-the-ear models.
:-)
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Dale Walter" <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
10 Vane Oil Cooler
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
Barry,
Our oil cooler came from Vans, 4/11/2001, part number 4215, per Vans
invoice; "EA OIL COOLER 4215, OIL COOLER FOR IO-360". I had forgotten our
cooler was for the IO and not the "O" model, but I would recommend it.
We have the O-360, 180 hp. I will try to find the mfg info next time I take
the bottom cowl off. Maybe Vans can tell you who makes the #4215.
Pic attached.
Dale
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Sent: Tuesday, September 05, 2006 11:09 AM
Subject: RV-List: 10 Vane Oil Cooler
Hey Flight:
Who is the manufacture and what is the part number for the 10 Vane Oil
Cooler
used on the RV-6 with an O-360?
Thanks for the feedback,
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject:
Re: Baggage Compartment Temperatures
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
Jim,
It is called 3M VIBRATION DAMPING TAPE.
It is used by commercial medium and large twin engine type repair and
refurbishing companys. It is also used by none aviation users. Suggest you
try 3M website for vendors in your area.
Dick Martin
RV8 N233M
the fast one
----- Original Message -----
From: "James H Nelson" <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 1:05 PM
Subject: RV-List: Baggage Compartment Temperatures
>
> Hi Dick,
> What was that 3M tape you were talking about. I'd like to
> explore using it on my fire wall.
>
> Jim Nelson
>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 06, 2006
From:
Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison
I still can't believe this continues to be a recurring thread. My opinion only,
(not sure why it is not more common, though!) is that to ME it's worth the $1K
for the quality, comfort, and most of all, piece of mind that I won't ever
have to send them back....I don't care if LS sends me a new pair every time or
repairs them...the bottom line is you have to send them back and be without headsets,
pay shipping charges to LS, and frankly, is a pain in the rear.
I'll reiterate from my previous posts...I've had the Bose X for 6 years now,
and have about 1000 hours on a pair. The most of those hours were in and out
of Cessnas while I was a flight instructor, in all kinds of heat, cold, rain,
etc, and not one blip out of them in all that time. To ME, it's worth not every
buying another pair, or having to send one back. Not to mention, I feel that
they are far more comfortable, even if the ANR quality is close enough between
the two.
I now have two pairs of Bose X headsets for the above reasons and don't have
the slightest regret for spending the money...especially when they have no interest
over 12 months. We are airplane builders, flyers, etc..nobody said it was
a cheap hobby!
Again, my opinion only!
Paul Besing
Charlie England wrote:
Tedd McHenry wrote:
>
>I have two pairs of Lightspeed headsets that I'm happy with the performance of.
>But earlier this year I had a problem with one and called Lightspeed for help.
>I was told that my model is no longer supported and they don't stock parts for
>it, but they invited me to upgrade to a newer model.
>
>I really don't think it's too much to ask that a company support and stock
>parts for a headset that's less than ten years old, so I wasn't very impressed
>with that. Fortunately, the problem turned out to be only a broken wire. But
>when an actual Lightspeed part eventually fails the headset will be scrap. I
>doubt that would happen with a David Clark, at the same age.
>
>---
>
>Tedd McHenry
>Surrey, BC, Canada
>
Hi Tedd,
Since I'm the originator of the recent 'rant' controversy, I thought I
might play 'devil's advocate' for a change.
I feel your frustration, since I just went through the exact same issue
with a pair of 20K's (which I bought used, from an individual) and a
pair of 15XL's that I bought new. My experience was that the tech guy
said that they *might* not be able to fix the 20K's; I could trade them
up if I wanted; but send them anyway & they'd take a look. I just got
both sets back today, repaired, no charge, including wear items like the
pads (2nd time, free, on the 15XL's). I was planning to write the list
tonight to praise LS for their excellent service when I read your post.
Here's my 'devil's advocate' position:
When I ran a consumer electronics repair company in a previous life (no
sales; just repair) & we had to tell a customer that their
stereo/tv/vcr/etc wasn't worth fixing, most got really frustrated with
us, even though we didn't sell the product to them. My explanation
usually ran something like, "I know it's only x years old, but you only
paid y dollars for it. If you had paid 3 times y dollars for it, it
would be worth fixing. I think you came out ahead, even though it's hard
to adjust to 'disposable' products." Manufacturers of almost all
products are pushing us into disposable products by jacking up the
replacement parts prices so high they can stay legal (automotive, for
example) by keeping just a couple of parts on a shelf somewhere priced
at half the value of the product. The upside is that most mass produced
products have gotten incredibly inexpensive relative to what they do.
The LS headsets are (mostly) constructed of very inexpensive, often
flimsy, parts. The purchase price, compared to the high end stuff,
reflects it. One of the ways to keep costs down is not restocking custom
parts after changing models (common practice; there's a particular
relatively high dollar GPS brand that quit supplying even database
updates after just 3 or 4 years, a while back). The impressive thing
about LS is that I've never heard of anyone that paid for a repair on
them, no matter what the age. Not so for some of the high end brands.
The $1k brands can probably be fixed 'forever' but it's likely to cost
almost as much as a new pair of LS for each repair.
I can't stop without griping about something; they wouldn't let me trade
in the 20K's on a pair of the new in-the-ear models.
:-)
Charlie
---------------------------------
Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject:
Re: Baggage Compartment Temperatures
Date:
Sep 07, 2006
3M lists several metal foil vibration damping tapes. 2552 tape is for 40 to
140 degrees F which would be OK for the 110 degree F I measured on my
firewall. 434, 435, and 436 tapes are for -76 to 68 degrees F. Too low to
dampen vibration on the firewall at 110 degrees F. However, I'm more
interested in temperature reduction than vibration damping & 3M is quiet
concerning this property. Perhaps there is an insulating tape or ???
Dave Reel - RV8A
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
decorative prop
Date:
Sep 07, 2006
From:
"Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
My apologies for the spam. Delete if not interested.
Here's a nice Hartzell 2 blade unairworthy prop to put on your wall.
Similar, but slightly smaller to the Hartzells found on many Rockets and
RV's.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Hartzell-constant-speed-prop-propeller_W0
QQitemZ290026847977QQihZ019QQcategoryZ26439QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZ
ViewItem
Vince
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
John Loretz <rv8(at)loretz.us>
Subject:
Re: Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
Date:
Sep 07, 2006
I too talk to VM on Thursday of last week and they said they would
have to research my question and that they would get back to me last
Friday or Monday... Well, almost a week gone by now and they haven't
contacted me or returned my phone calls or emails...
I'm getting a little aggravated to say the least! There website now
says:
"Dear Valued VMS Customer:
Due to circumstances beyond our control, Vision Microsystems is being
moved to Texas. The new location for VMS will be:
28120 Boerne Stage Airport
Hanger 302
Boerne, TX 78006
Phone 830-755-6330
We are trying to make this a seamless transition and will try to ship
small items during the transition. VMS is expecting to be fully
operational by the end of November.
Thank you for your cooperation. "
I hope we don't have to wait until the end of November to get our
questions answered and products shipped....
John Loretz
RV8 - Denver, Colorado
On Sep 5, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Roger Crandell wrote:
>
> I spoke with VM only a week ago. Friday and today when I called I
> heard a recording stating VM has moved. The new number given in
> the recording is 830-755-6330. I called the new number and
> received another recording. I left a message at the new number on
> Friday and have heard nothing back. The new number is in Boerne,
> Texas near San Antonio. I have unfinished work to be done on my
> system and need to contact them. I guess I will wait and hope
> someome calls.
>
> Late this afternoon I called JP Instruments and asked what was
> happening with VM. I could tell the person knew, but was unwilling
> to tell me. They said the Company Controller, Scott, would call
> me. Scott has not called.
>
>
> Roger Crandell
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-msn.com/
> messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-us&source=wlmailtagline
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
John Loretz <rv8(at)loretz.us>
Subject:
Re: Visionmicro Systems Moved or sold?
Date:
Sep 07, 2006
All,
I just spoke to Vision Micro... They freturned my call. They said
they are alive and well, but they are having to relocate their
facilities to Texas. He said that they are returning phone calls,
just bear with them.
Blue Skies,
John
On Sep 7, 2006, at 8:02 AM, John Loretz wrote:
>
> I too talk to VM on Thursday of last week and they said they would
> have to research my question and that they would get back to me
> last Friday or Monday... Well, almost a week gone by now and they
> haven't contacted me or returned my phone calls or emails...
>
> I'm getting a little aggravated to say the least! There website
> now says:
>
>
> "Dear Valued VMS Customer:
> Due to circumstances beyond our control, Vision Microsystems is
> being moved to Texas. The new location for VMS will be:
>
> 28120 Boerne Stage Airport
> Hanger 302
> Boerne, TX 78006
>
> Phone 830-755-6330
>
> We are trying to make this a seamless transition and will try to
> ship small items during the transition. VMS is expecting to be
> fully operational by the end of November.
>
> Thank you for your cooperation. "
>
>
> I hope we don't have to wait until the end of November to get our
> questions answered and products shipped....
>
> John Loretz
> RV8 - Denver, Colorado
>
>
> On Sep 5, 2006, at 6:32 PM, Roger Crandell wrote:
>
>>
>> I spoke with VM only a week ago. Friday and today when I called I
>> heard a recording stating VM has moved. The new number given in
>> the recording is 830-755-6330. I called the new number and
>> received another recording. I left a message at the new number on
>> Friday and have heard nothing back. The new number is in Boerne,
>> Texas near San Antonio. I have unfinished work to be done on my
>> system and need to contact them. I guess I will wait and hope
>> someome calls.
>>
>> Late this afternoon I called JP Instruments and asked what was
>> happening with VM. I could tell the person knew, but was
>> unwilling to tell me. They said the Company Controller, Scott,
>> would call me. Scott has not called.
>>
>>
>>
>> Roger Crandell
>>
>> _________________________________________________________________
>> Call friends with PC-to-PC calling -- FREE http://imagine-
>> msn.com/messenger/launch80/default.aspx?locale=en-
>> us&source=wlmailtagline
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
Man I hate to do this... (Marhyde update)
Howdy Listers-
Just to add fuel to the Primer Wars, please take a look here if you are
interested in using self-etching primers on your project:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4863
Please reply OFF-LIST if any ?s...
>From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 350 hrs since January, '04
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
Aircraft Spruce -- Great Service
Sorry for changing the subject line. I think that we should keep them
separate!
After calling customer service and getting nowhere, I posted what I thought
was a legitimate complaint about ACS a couple of years ago on this list.
Within a day I got a response from Jim Irwin saying that was not how ACS did
business, and corrected the problem in a very professional manner. I am glad
that Aircraft Spruce is in business, and I count myself among their many
satisfied customers. Just placed another order a few minutes ago, in fact.
Dan Hopper
RV-7A
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
From:
Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Man I hate to do this... (Marhyde update)
Aww come on Mark... enquiring minds want to know;
What's your opinion ?
Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote:
Howdy Listers-
Just to add fuel to the Primer Wars, please take a look here if you are interested
in using self-etching primers on your project:
http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4863
Please reply OFF-LIST if any ?s...
From The PossumWorks in TN
Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 350 hrs since January, '04
---------------------------------
All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
From:
Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Curious
Just curious....
I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel pump and
an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump (spins but won't
pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600 plus core, shipping
and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because I got it in trade; I use
to use Performance Air (?) but their price sucks too and I hated the added weight
& complexity of their recommended fuel filter.
Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just a spun
nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend the $$$
on girls & surfin'
5. Your suggestions...........
Thanks.
Chuck
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce -- Great Service ... LOL
In a message dated 9/8/06 11:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> Sorry for changing the subject line. I think that we should keep them
> separate!
>
> After calling customer service and getting nowhere, I posted what I
thought
>
> was a legitimate complaint about ACS a couple of years ago on this list.
> Within a day I got a response from Jim Irwin saying that was not how ACS
> did
> business, and corrected the problem in a very professional manner. I am
> glad
> that Aircraft Spruce is in business, and I count myself among their many
> satisfied customers. Just placed another order a few minutes ago, in
fact.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A
========================
Dan:
I am in a $1066 dispute with ACS right now. So far I have been given all the
rhetoric that can flow from Jim Irwin's underlings. Today alone I have been
put on hold for 28 minutes waiting for a call back since 1800 Z ... The time
now is 2200 Z.
Dan, would you happen to have Jim Irwin's phone number or direct email?
Truly great service is determined not when everything goes smooth but how
well they smooth out the bumps.
Barry
PS
I'm sick of hearing Jim talk about ACS as a FAMILY. I would not treat my
FAMILY the way ACS treats their customers.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
From:
passpat(at)aol.com
Subject:
Re: RV6 down in Petaluma
NTSB Identification: LAX06LA275
14 CFR Part 91: General Aviation
Accident occurred Sunday, August 27, 2006 in Novato, CA
Aircraft: Terry Tevis RV-6A, registration: N312RV
Injuries: 2 Fatal.
This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any
errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.
On August 27, 2006, about 2200 Pacific daylight time, an experimental amateur-built
Tevis RV-6A airplane, N312RV, impacted terrain about 2 miles north of the
Gnoss Field Airport near Novato, California. The private pilot and passenger
sustained fatal injuries. The airplane was substantially damaged. The airplane
was built and operated by the pilot under the provisions of 14 CFR Part 91 as
a personal flight. The flight originated from the Lincoln Regional Airport, Lincoln,
California, around 2100, and was destined for Petaluma, California. Dark
night conditions prevailed and a flight plan was not filed for the flight.
According to the pilot's family, he had flown the airplane from Petaluma to Lincoln
earlier in the day. The family took the pilot and passenger to the Lincoln
airport around 2030, and they believe they departed around 2100. The pilot's
hangar and car were located at Petaluma.
According to the Federal Aviation Administrator (FAA) inspector who responded to
the accident site, the airplane impacted a hill leaving prop strikes in the
ground. The wreckage was scattered along a debris path that stretched approximately
250 feet.
-----Original Message-----
From: me(at)parkerthomas.com
Sent: Mon, 28 Aug 2006 9:20 PM
Subject: RV-List: RV6 down in Petaluma
Sad news about a couple guys in a RV-6 up in Petaluma today. Anybody know anything?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/08/28/BAGR8KQNVS4.DTL
Parker Thomas
RV-6A 421PT
________________________________________________________________________
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject:
Re: Curious
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
My vote goes to the girls and surfing.. but they cost alot more than the
new fuel pump.. the airplane does what
you say... how many women do that ? plus if you have an airplane, maybe
you can do all three :)
on 2nd thought, get the new duke and getover it..
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Curious
Just curious....
I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel
pump and an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump
(spins but won't pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600
plus core, shipping and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because
I got it in trade; I use to use Performance Air (?) but their price
sucks too and I hated the added weight & complexity of their recommended
fuel filter.
Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just
a spun nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend
the $$$ on girls & surfin'
5. Your suggestions...........
Thanks.
Chuck
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.
--> http://forums.matronics.comhttp://wiki.matronics.com
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
From:
<jrlewismail-rv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
For Sale -- RV-7
Posting this message makes my stomach hurt ...........................
Due to personal (any male will understand this means "divorce") reasons I a
m forced to sell my RV7 kit.
The specifics are listed below. I will gladly answer any questions anyone
may have (even build questions). I bought this kit a few years ago and hav
e almost completed it. While I am required to sell this kit, this is NOT a
fire sale. Any real RV'er will quickly realize there is over $60K in part
s alone listed with no compensation for build time. A month ago I placed t
his kit on a trailer in a secured storage unit located in northern Indiana.
I am currently working in Washington DC, but will gladly meet with a SERI
OUS buyer to show the plane. Please, if you really want to buy an exceptio
nal kit at a reasonable price then fine, contact me. If you just want to l
ook at an RV then please go to your local airport. There are many exceptio
nal RVs and the owners are all great people who will let you bend their ear
. My point is .... please don't waste my time. Interested persons may con
tact me directly at the following email: jrlewismail-rv(at)yahoo.com
For now I will not set a price, but will rather solicit reasonable offers.
I will know a lot about you by the questions you ask and the offer you sug
gest. If your comments are ridiculous then it is unlikely you will succeed
in convincing me to fly to Indiana to show you my plane. Sorry, just bein
g honest.
For the serious RV'ers, please feel free to pass this info to anyone you kn
ow who is not on this board but who you think might be interested.
Info on my plane:
RV-7 w/ slider =93 QB complete with kit parts
Build Status: Ready for engine / panel / canopy install
Equipment / Accessories:
- Fuel tank flop tubes for inverted flight
- Strobes
- 2 axis Auto-Pilot W/ Vertical Speed Hold & GPS Track (servos installed)
- Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS
- RMI Monitor
- RMI Encoder w/independent compass system
- Dynon EFIS
- Dual Pitot static systems
- Landing light
- Taxi Light
- Electric Aileron and Elevator Trim
- Custom stick grips enable trim, auto-pilot, and nav control
- Electric Flaps
- EMI Fuel Monitor System
- Wingtip comm./nav antennas
- Sitting on a custom built 20 ft flatbed trailer
- Top aviation grade wiring installed
Over $60K invested (not including any build time)
- If it looks like I have made a typo then ask.. I will clarify what I have
written.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce -- Great Service ... LOL
In a message dated 9/8/2006 5:09:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
In a message dated 9/8/06 11:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> Sorry for changing the subject line. I think that we should keep them
> separate!
>
> After calling customer service and getting nowhere, I posted what I
thought
>
> was a legitimate complaint about ACS a couple of years ago on this list.
> Within a day I got a response from Jim Irwin saying that was not how ACS
> did
> business, and corrected the problem in a very professional manner. I am
> glad
> that Aircraft Spruce is in business, and I count myself among their many
> satisfied customers. Just placed another order a few minutes ago, in
fact.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A
========================
Dan:
I am in a $1066 dispute with ACS right now. So far I have been given all
the
rhetoric that can flow from Jim Irwin's underlings. Today alone I have been
put on hold for 28 minutes waiting for a call back since 1800 Z ... The time
now is 2200 Z.
Dan, would you happen to have Jim Irwin's phone number or direct email?
Truly great service is determined not when everything goes smooth but how
well they smooth out the bumps.
Barry
PS
I'm sick of hearing Jim talk about ACS as a FAMILY. I would not treat my
FAMILY the way ACS treats their customers.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce -- Great Service ... LOL
Barry,
Go in to some detail here on the list and I'm sure Jim will get in touch
with you and get it settled real soon!
No, it has been about 2 years ago. I had the same experience with "customer
service."
Dan
In a message dated 9/8/2006 5:09:01 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com writes:
--> RV-List message posted by: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
In a message dated 9/8/06 11:15:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Hopperdhh(at)aol.com writes:
> Sorry for changing the subject line. I think that we should keep them
> separate!
>
> After calling customer service and getting nowhere, I posted what I
thought
>
> was a legitimate complaint about ACS a couple of years ago on this list.
> Within a day I got a response from Jim Irwin saying that was not how ACS
> did
> business, and corrected the problem in a very professional manner. I am
> glad
> that Aircraft Spruce is in business, and I count myself among their many
> satisfied customers. Just placed another order a few minutes ago, in
fact.
>
> Dan Hopper
> RV-7A
========================
Dan:
I am in a $1066 dispute with ACS right now. So far I have been given all
the
rhetoric that can flow from Jim Irwin's underlings. Today alone I have been
put on hold for 28 minutes waiting for a call back since 1800 Z ... The time
now is 2200 Z.
Dan, would you happen to have Jim Irwin's phone number or direct email?
Truly great service is determined not when everything goes smooth but how
well they smooth out the bumps.
Barry
PS
I'm sick of hearing Jim talk about ACS as a FAMILY. I would not treat my
FAMILY the way ACS treats their customers.
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
Re: Aircraft Spruce -- Great Service ... LOL
In a message dated 9/8/06 9:04:17 PM Eastern Daylight Time, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
writes:
> Barry,
>
> Go in to some detail here on the list and I'm sure Jim will get in touch
> with you and get it settled real soon!
>
> No, it has been about 2 years ago. I had the same experience with "
> customer service."
>
> Dan
==========================
Dan:
I'm going to wait just a little bit longer and see if the person I talked to
will follow through and offer a proper solution. Then if nothing happens I
will peruse a different path. I'm only the mechanic on the plane with the
problem.
I don't want to air dirty laundry for no reason. Bad publicity is hard to
correct.
Barry
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 08, 2006
Subject:
looking for Reno Tix
From:
russ(at)wernerworld.com
I'm looking for 2 admissions and 2 Reno Chairmans Club tickets for either
Friday, Saturday, or Sunday.
Russ
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Curious
Date:
Sep 09, 2006
From:
"BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com>
The Airflow Performance boost pump is around 500.00 bucks. Lighweight,
simple in design and works. Everybody I know has problems with Duke
pumps and end up chucking them in the trash.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com
[mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sportypilot
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 4:52 PM
Subject: Re: RV-List: Curious
My vote goes to the girls and surfing.. but they cost alot more than the
new fuel pump.. the airplane does what
you say... how many women do that ? plus if you have an airplane, maybe
you can do all three :)
on 2nd thought, get the new duke and getover it..
----- Original Message -----
From: Chuck <mailto:chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
To: rv-list(at)matronics.com
Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 3:54 PM
Subject: RV-List: Curious
Just curious....
I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections,
mechanical fuel pump and an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The
Duke takes a dump (spins but won't pressure up). I find out the
replacement Duke is $600 plus core, shipping and tax ($900 area). I
went with the Duke because I got it in trade; I use to use Performance
Air (?) but their price sucks too and I hated the added weight &
complexity of their recommended fuel filter.
Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might
be just a spun nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and
spend the $$$ on girls & surfin'
5. Your suggestions...........
Thanks.
Chuck
________________________________
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41244/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/>
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41244/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/>
the Web
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41244/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/>
-->
<http://us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=41244/*http:/smallbusiness.yahoo.com/>
===========
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 09, 2006
From:
"Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Curious
A friend of mine rebuilt his Dukes pump, and I got to look at the innards
when he had it apart. They're pretty simple inside, its just a vane pump
with a check valve/bypass. The vanes were made of teflon IIRC. I think he
paid $160 for the rebuild kit.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On 9/8/06, Chuck wrote:
>
> Just curious....
>
> I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel
> pump and an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump
> (spins but won't pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600
> plus core, shipping and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because I
> got it in trade; I use to use Performance Air (?) but their price sucks too
> and I hated the added weight & complexity of their recommended fuel filter.
>
> Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
>
> 1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
> 2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just a
> spun nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
> 3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
> 4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend the
> $$$ on girls & surfin'
> 5. Your suggestions...........
>
> Thanks.
>
> Chuck
>
> ------------------------------
> *
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 09, 2006
From:
Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Curious
Bob,
Thanks for telling me that. Can you get the contact info for the rebuild kit.
So far my research has yielded negative results. I was afraid Duke's parts
were somehow proprietary and classified next to unobtainium on the Elements
chart.
I will crack her seals tomorrow morning and report back. Like what's his name
said "... why not open her up, you've got nothing to lose." You know, ocassionally
I do enjoy this list for actual RV related stuff (not just to laugh
my a$$ off at ALL the pissin' & moanin' & flame wars :-)
Chuck
"Bob J." wrote:
A friend of mine rebuilt his Dukes pump, and I got to look at the innards when
he had it apart. They're pretty simple inside, its just a vane pump with a
check valve/bypass. The vanes were made of teflon IIRC. I think he paid $160
for the rebuild kit.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On 9/8/06, Chuck < chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com > wrote: Just curious....
I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel pump and
an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump (spins but won't
pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600 plus core, shipping
and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because I got it in trade; I use
to use Performance Air (?) but their price sucks too and I hated the added weight
& complexity of their recommended fuel filter.
Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just a spun
nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend the $$$
on girls & surfin'
5. Your suggestions...........
Thanks.
Chuck
---------------------------------
Get your own web address for just $1.99/1st yr. We'll help.
---------------------------------
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 09, 2006
From:
"Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject:
Re: Curious
If I had to guess it sounds like a check valve seal. They'll sell you the
individual seals, according to my buddy.
http://www.dukesinc.com/contact.html
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const
On 9/9/06, Chuck wrote:
>
> Bob,
>
> Thanks for telling me that. Can you get the contact info for the rebuild
> kit. So far my research has yielded negative results. I was afraid
> Duke's parts were somehow proprietary and classified next to unobtainium on
> the Elements chart.
>
> I will crack her seals tomorrow morning and report back. Like what's his
> name said "... why not open her up, you've got nothing to lose." You
> know, ocassionally I do enjoy this list for actual RV related stuff (not
> just to laugh my a$$ off at ALL the pissin' & moanin' & flame wars :-)
>
> Chuck
>
>
> *"Bob J." * wrote:
>
> A friend of mine rebuilt his Dukes pump, and I got to look at the innards
> when he had it apart. They're pretty simple inside, its just a vane pump
> with a check valve/bypass. The vanes were made of teflon IIRC. I think he
> paid $160 for the rebuild kit.
>
> Regards,
> Bob Japundza
> RV-6 flying F1 under const.
>
> On 9/8/06, Chuck < chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com > wrote:
> >
> > Just curious....
> >
> > I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel
> > pump and an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump
> > (spins but won't pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600
> > plus core, shipping and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because I
> > got it in trade; I use to use Performance Air (?) but their price sucks too
> > and I hated the added weight & complexity of their recommended fuel filter.
> >
> > Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
> >
> > 1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
> > 2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just a
> > spun nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
> > 3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
> > 4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend
> > the $$$ on girls & surfin'
> > 5. Your suggestions...........
> >
> > Thanks.
> >
> > Chuck
> > ------------------------------
> > *
> >
>
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
From:
Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject:
RV-7 F-770 forward side skin 'pucker factor' question
Greetings -7 fuselage builders,
I've got a glitch with my F-770 forward side skins. With the mid section
belly skin clecoed to the tailcone @ F706, when I add the F770 side
skins & cleco them to the F704, 705 & 706 bulkheads I get a 'pucker' in
the bottom edge of the skin between the rear spar carry-through & the
change in angle of the bottom skin where the F-770 curved portion
starts. This is where the 770 would (I assume) get riveted to the flange
of the F-623 rib that lies flat in the belly skin on each side.
Both sides do this. I've removed one skin & rolled the bottom corner to
fit the tailcone, & it still has the 'pucker'. With the 770 clecoed to
F705 bulkhead there is about a 1/4" gap at midpoint between the rear
spar & the point at which the curved transistion begins.
Again, one side has been curved to transition around to the belly & the
other is still unbent; both exhibit the same bulge.
Related question: I see in my instructions one note that says 'don't
install the F-623 ribs now' but I can't find any instruction to actually
install them. Anyone seen that instruction? All I've seen is an
instruction to install the forward doubler attach tab for the F-623's.
Thanks,
Charlie
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
From:
Ralph Hoover <hooverra(at)verizon.net>
Subject:
Gretz Aero Pitot Wiring
I have a GA-1000 heated Pitot on back-order so I don't have the install
info yet. Does anyone have the details of the wiring required and the
panel indicator. I tried Stein Air and Warren Gretz, so far no answers.
RV7A Wiring
Ralph Hoover
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
"Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net>
Subject:
RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
Hi everybody,
this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will
place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my
first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH
601 HDS.
Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak
for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?
Thanks
Thilo Kind
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
From:
Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject:
Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
Bob Collins wrote:
>
> I must be building my RV wrong. I'm building slo-build and I'm having a
> BLAST! (g)
>
> If I'd gone QB, I wouldn't have known what I was missing (wcept flying
> really soon, of course)
Bob, I don't know that you would be flying *that* much sooner. :-)
What is often overlooked in QB vs standard discussions is that the QB
only saves time during construction of the airframe. Once the airframe
is looking sorta like an airplane, the project is only about half
finished and at that point the QB and standard builder are faced with
identical completion tasks.
Keep in mind that a 50% savings of QB time over standard airframe build
ends up only representing a 25% difference in total project build time.
And the new, highly evolved kits are blurring these distinctions even more.
There are valid reasons for going with a QB, but it seems the advantages
in build time are often misunderstood and overstated.
Sam Buchanan
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
From:
Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date:
Sep 11, 2006
How about the increased probability of completion!
No so much a problem for a second time builder I should imagine.
Doug Gray
>
> Hi everybody,
>
> this is my first post on this list. I'm planning to build an RV 8A and will
> place the order as soon as I have my workshop organized. This won't be my
> first adventure into airplane building - I have already built a Zodiac CH
> 601 HDS.
>
> Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak
> for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit?
>
> Thanks
>
> Thilo Kind
>
>
________________________________________________________________________________
From:
Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject:
Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
On 10 Sep 2006, at 16:03, Thilo Kind wrote:
>
> Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time
> saving) speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard
> kit?
Some builders like to make deviations from the plans to add custom
features. Many of these types of mods are more difficult on a QB
kit, as they would require significant disassembly and rework.
Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit)
Ottawa, Canada
http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
From:
Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject:
Re: Curious
Thanks Bob, for the contct info. I did email them before and they sent me their
rebuilt boost-pump price list. I will email they again and ask specifically
for a re-build kit.
By the way, I pulled her apart. The main shaft pin sheared-off. It is so
small, I'm gonna have some trouble getting the old piece out and a new one to
re-place it. I will also replace the vanes and seals while I've got her off/out
and apart. I hope they do sell a rebuild kit; life would be so much easier
if they do.
Chuck
"Bob J." wrote:
If I had to guess it sounds like a check valve seal. They'll sell you the individual
seals, according to my buddy.
http://www.dukesinc.com/contact.html
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const
On 9/9/06, Chuck wrote: Bob,
Thanks for telling me that. Can you get the contact info for the rebuild kit.
So far my research has yielded negative results. I was afraid Duke's parts
were somehow proprietary and classified next to unobtainium on the Elements
chart.
I will crack her seals tomorrow morning and report back. Like what's his name
said "... why not open her up, you've got nothing to lose." You know, ocassionally
I do enjoy this list for actual RV related stuff (not just to laugh
my a$$ off at ALL the pissin' & moanin' & flame wars :-)
Chuck
"Bob J." < rocketbob(at)gmail.com> wrote:
A friend of mine rebuilt his Dukes pump, and I got to look at the innards when
he had it apart. They're pretty simple inside, its just a vane pump with
a check valve/bypass. The vanes were made of teflon IIRC. I think he paid $160
for the rebuild kit.
Regards,
Bob Japundza
RV-6 flying F1 under const.
On 9/8/06, Chuck < chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com > wrote: Just curious....
I'm running an IO-320 (Ly-con) with Bendix injections, mechanical fuel pump and
an electric "Dukes Inc." boost-pump. The Duke takes a dump (spins but won't
pressure up). I find out the replacement Duke is $600 plus core, shipping
and tax ($900 area). I went with the Duke because I got it in trade; I use
to use Performance Air (?) but their price sucks too and I hated the added weight
& complexity of their recommended fuel filter.
Seeking thoughts & recommendations:
1. Cough-up the bucks and get the replacement Duke.
2. Crack-open the Duke's seals ans see if I can repair (might be just a spun
nut/cotter-key/or sumpin' like the nylatron pump vane).
3. Skip the boost pump 'cuz I never use it anyway...
4. Forget this ever increasin' overly-expensive flyin' sh!t and spend the $$$
on girls & surfin'
5. Your suggestions...........
Thanks.
Chuck
---------------------------------
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---------------------------------
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Subject:
Re: Bose versus Lightspeed headset comparison
From:
"macrafic" <macrafic(at)charter.net>
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
I had a chance to hear both the LS 30G and the Bose at Oshkosh this year, in a
sound booth where you could pipe in engine noise and vary the volume. I was impressed
with the LS, especially considering the price. For the sound, immediate
comfort and price, I would purchase the LS hands down. However, I can't comment
on the long term wear of both. Seems to me this would be a very critical
criteria.
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60849#60849
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From:
"Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject:
RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
Date:
Sep 10, 2006
The other thing I like about the slo-build. Every night when I close the
garage door and just before turning out the light, I look back at this thing
and I say, "*I* built that; every rivet. (OK, except the main wing spar). I
can't tell you how cool that feels.
(http://stirringsfromtheemptynest.blogspot.com/2006/07/right-here-provenzani
.html). It's my $8,000 feeling.
On the other hand, I know a guy who started his 7A just a little before I
did and I think he went QB all the way. Five years later, he's about as far
ahead of me -- not too much -- as we were five years ago. He had to do a QB,
not because he wanted to get in the air fast -- although maybe he did -- but
his lifestyle didn't allow for a slow build.
Bottom line? Like so many things in RV building, there's no *right* answer.
Bob
St. Paul, Minn.
________________________________________________________________________________
Date:
Sep 11, 2006
From:
Scott Lewis <rv10(at)tpg.com.au>
Subject:
Re: Gretz Aero Pitot Wiring
Ralph,
Will reply to you off list.
Regards,
Scott Lewis
Ralph Hoover wrote:
>
> I have a GA-1000 heated Pitot on back-order so I don't have the install
> info yet. Does anyone have the details of the wiring required and the
> panel indicator. I tried Stein Air and Warren Gretz, so far no answers.
> RV7A Wiring
> Ralph Hoover
>
>
>
>
>
>
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These pumps are not rocket science but they are obviously "aircraft" parts
because the price is about 10 TIMES what it ought to be. I ended up with an
AFP fuel pump when Mattituck sent me my finished engine. I can't help but
speculate that there HAS to be a similar pump in the auto racing world that
can be used for this purpose. That pump will likely cost between 50-100
dollars and be of equal or better quality than a PMA stamped part (who knows
maybe even AFP adapts one of these pumps). Not to knock the AFP system, it's
likely the best mechanical system to be had today and Don Rivera's service
is top notch. But... these ridiculous prices for simple and proven pumping
technology is idiotic (like many old low tech aircraft parts). Anyone
researched using an automotive racing pump (ie. Holley, Edelbrock, etc) for
this purpose.
Dean Psiropoulos
RV-6A N197DM
Always blown away by the cost of "aircraft" parts.
>Subject: RE: RV-List: Curious
>From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com>
>
>The Airflow Performance boost pump is around 500.00 bucks. Lighweight,
>simple in design and works. Everybody I know has problems with Duke
>pumps and end up chucking them in the trash.
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject:
Re: Man I hate to do this... (Marhyde update)
From:
"AltonD" <adeweese3(at)comcast.net>
Date:
Sep 11, 2006
The Duplicolor primer is made by Sherwin-Williams. There are some differences
in the MSDS fromt he other Sherwin-Williams primer.
--------
AltonD
Waiting on the slow build fuselage to deliver
Read this topic online here:
http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60905#60905
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