RV-List Archive Browser

Hi Thilo, By taking the cost and (so called) time savings equation out of the mix, your question pushes the standard/quickbuild decision into the subjective realm of personal preference. The few exceptions to that are if you ultimately seek to build a Grand Champion contender requiring an extra measure of craftsmanship that is not built into the quickbuild kits. Even Van concedes that quickbuild sheet metal work is perfectly acceptable structurally but can fall short of perfection when judged cosmetically. In addition, if you are the type of builder driven to insist all internal parts be individually epoxy primed prior to fastening together, you may not be happy with the sticky, translucent wash primer the quickbuilds are equipped with. I believe todays matched hole technology does a great deal to negate the (so-called) quickbuild time savings advantage over the standard kit. So simple are the newer kits in advanced construction techniques that I spent more time waiting for primer to dry on the individual RV-8 empennage parts than I did scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next as was my experience on the 6A. Believe me, the process is so advanced now it is way, way easier to build a modern RV than was prior to the days of matched hole technology. I have developed a new found level of respect for those driven guys with the tenacity to successfully build an RV3 or -4. Anybody who is skilled enough to build a -4 can easily build an -8. Yet there are (relatively) few -8 builders with the skill set and patience to successfully build an RV4! Finally Thilo, I take enormous satisfaction knowing that excepting the wing spar holes, virtually every hole drilled and every rivet pounded into my 6A was produced by my own hands. I'm constantly struck and happily reminded of that while gazing upon those long, straight rivet patterns holding the wings together while cruising along at 9500'. That means a whole lot more to me than if the wings were mostly assembled by an anonymous overseas production worker. Granted, that sense of satisfaction is a deeply subjective one, but it is always there and I wouldn't have it any other way. I enjoy building as much as I enjoy flying. You have to really know what type of builder/flyer you are and let that inner knowledge speak to your ultimately personal decision as to what kit configuration to eventually settle upon. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 168 hours RV-8A empennage complete EAA Technical Counselor thilo.kind(at)gmx.net wrote: > > Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? Thanks > Thilo Kind Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60945#60945 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
Date: Sep 11, 2006
From: "Herron, Al" <Al.Herron(at)Aerojet.com>
I've had no regrets about choosing the quickbuild on my -7A, especially since I'm a first-time builder. I'm guessing it saved me up to two years of build time, not to mention that a large part of the airframe is built to a level of quality that I can't always match. I think it was, for me anyway, well worth the expenditure. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thilo Kind" <thilo.kind(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard
Date: Sep 11, 2006
Hi Rick et Al, thanks a lot for the multiple answers regarding the quick build versus standard. I think, I will go with a compromise and go QB wing, but the rest slow build. As mentioned before, I have built already one airplane and the building buck really good me. One thing I learned is, that you never ever done with the airplane. Mine is now 5 years since completion and I'm still working on it - not quite efeectively, mind you, than in my garage, simply because everybody and his brother at the airport will visit the hangar and talk to you... Okay, now I need to prepare the workshop and place the order... Later THILO Kind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 4:41 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: RV8 A - Quickbuild vs. Standard > > Hi Thilo, > > By taking the cost and (so called) time savings equation out of the mix, > your question pushes the standard/quickbuild decision into the subjective > realm of personal preference. The few exceptions to that are if you > ultimately seek to build a Grand Champion contender requiring an extra > measure of craftsmanship that is not built into the quickbuild kits. Even > Van concedes that quickbuild sheet metal work is perfectly acceptable > structurally but can fall short of perfection when judged cosmetically. > In addition, if you are the type of builder driven to insist all internal > parts be individually epoxy primed prior to fastening together, you may > not be happy with the sticky, translucent wash primer the quickbuilds are > equipped with. > > I believe todays matched hole technology does a great deal to negate the > (so-called) quickbuild time savings advantage over the standard kit. So > simple are the newer kits in advanced construction techniques that I spent > more time waiting for primer to dry on the individual RV-8 empennage parts > than I did scratching my head trying to figure out what to do next as was > my experience on the 6A. Believe me, the process is so advanced now it is > way, way easier to build a modern RV than was prior to the days of matched > hole technology. I have developed a new found level of respect for those > driven guys with the tenacity to successfully build an RV3 or -4. Anybody > who is skilled enough to build a -4 can easily build an -8. Yet there are > (relatively) few -8 builders with the skill set and patience to > successfully build an RV4! > > Finally Thilo, I take enormous satisfaction knowing that excepting the > wing spar holes, virtually every hole drilled and every rivet pounded into > my 6A was produced by my own hands. I'm constantly struck and happily > reminded of that while gazing upon those long, straight rivet patterns > holding the wings together while cruising along at 9500'. That means a > whole lot more to me than if the wings were mostly assembled by an > anonymous overseas production worker. Granted, that sense of satisfaction > is a deeply subjective one, but it is always there and I wouldn't have it > any other way. I enjoy building as much as I enjoy flying. You have to > really know what type of builder/flyer you are and let that inner > knowledge speak to your ultimately personal decision as to what kit > configuration to eventually settle upon. > > Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" 168 hours > RV-8A empennage complete > EAA Technical Counselor > > > thilo.kind(at)gmx.net wrote: >> >> Have a question: what other arguements (besides cost and time saving) >> speak for or against the quickbuild kit versus the standard kit? Thanks >> Thilo Kind > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=60945#60945 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2006
From: Ted Lumpkin <tlump51(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Clarity Aloft Headset Review (long)
I recently purchased a Clarity Aloft headset and thought I'd let the list know of how it's worked for me. First off, I'm not affiliated any way with Clarity Aloft. I'm a 300 hour pilot. Most of that time has been acro although I will do an extended cross country here and there. I haven't used a tremendous amount of other headsets, but I am very familiar with your typical flight school passive David Clarks, bargain basement Sigtronics, Bose ANR and I used a Lightspeed QFR Cross Country before I went to the Clarity Aloft (CA). Based on this experience, I would say that the CA headsets are the best I have used. Here was my purchase criteria (not necessarily in priority): Noise reductionComfort and weight Communication audio quality and volumeGood microphone performanceGood looksGood company supportRuggedMusic audio quality and volumeAbility to wear a wide-brimmed hatBased on this criteria the CA compares well. Here are the pros: For noise reduction it is at least as good as the Bose. I have a RV-4 with an IO360 and a c/s prop and essentially no sound-proofing and it really quiets things down on takeoff and in cruise. They are VERY comfortable. I was concerned with the ear plug style headsets due to pressure variation with altitude changes, but this hasn't been a problem at least from sea level to 10K. I know it's a cliche, but after the first test flight I forget I have them on. The communication quality and volume is also great. I had to turn down my radio from its normal settings. The microphone works very well. I had a problem with my QFR's during takeoff and other high ambient noise conditions where people couldn't understand me because the mike transmitted so much background noise. This has not been a problem with the CA. As far as looks are concerned, that's subjective, but the wires sticking out of your ears does look funny to some people. Of course the giant ear cups on the Lightspeed 20 & 30G's look a little funny as well. As far as company support and ruggedness, the jury is still out because I haven't had them long enough. Now, for me, here's the best part. I like to listen to music when I fly acro. I have my IPOD plugged into my intercom with a wireless control. Before I had to use a "Boostaroo" (http://www.boostaroo.com) amplifier or I couldn't really hear the music even with the IPOD turned all the way up. With the Boostaroo I was able to hear the music, but now, with the CA I can BLAST the music and the sound quality is great. I have everything from Wagner to the White Stripes to Dizzy Gillespie to Beyonce on my aerobatic play list and it handles them all well. It's really amazing to get that kind of sound quality in a homebuilt airplane. I flew sailplanes for years and always wore a wide-brimmed hat to keep the sun off my head. Now I have no restrictions to head wear. I've tried a sailing hat, a fedora and a straw hat and they all work fine. A sombrero would work if it would fit in under my canopy. I was concerned that the earpieces on my sunglasses would interfere with the CA ear supports. I've tried several pairs of sunglasses. Turned out not to be an issue. No batteries are required since these headsets are totally passive. Lastly, I was concerned the headset wouldn't stay put during acro. It's actually better than conventional headsets because they are so much lighter. Now for the cons: You do have to put the canal tips (earplugs) in your ears. I wear foam earplugs for other recreational activities all the time so I am familiar with this, but it still takes more time than just popping on your typical headset. Also, if I use the recommended two-handed, overhead procedure, I can't put the canal tips in with my canopy closed. I've found I can easily put the canal tips in by pulling down on my earlobe rather than upwards. With this method the canopy can be closed. The microphone boom can only be positioned on the left. This hasn't been a problem for me, but may be for some. They look fragile. They aren't in reality, but I don't feel comfortable tossing them around like I would with conventional headsets. Since you put the canal tips in your ears you have to make sure you don't drop them on your filthy cockpit floor, for instance. You have to replace the canal tips. They come with a set of 6 that the company says should last six months, but you do have to replace them. I think they will last much longer than that for a recreational flyer, but a replacement set of 12 will cost $24.95. You may need different size canal tips based on your ear canal size. The company has different sizes, but you may have to do some back and forth and trial and error to get the right ones. Mine fit right out of the box. If you share the headset with someone, you have to replace the canal tips before you give them to them and after you get them back for hygiene reasons. No cell phone interface. They are adding this feature and you can get a free upgrade if you are an owner, but you have to ship the headsets back to them. This is more of a nit, but since I fly a lot of acro, I do a lot of rubber-necking looking for traffic and sight lines. When I turn my head 90 degrees I can feel the CA support band on the back of my neck. This bothered me on the first flight. Now I don't think about it. The cost $525. A bit pricey in my opinion. In summary, the pros far outweigh the cons for me. I find myself asking what took me so long to purchase them. Of course, your mileage may vary. Ted Lumpkin ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 11, 2006
From: Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Fuel Pumps
Here's an MSD pump from Summit Racing that appears to be very similiar to the actual AFP pump: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D2225&N=700+4294925239+4294839053+4294836965+4294891680+115&autoview=sku (the link may be broken...) $93. Keep in mind, however, that the AFP pump includes a pressure reliev valve, the bypass check valve & associated manifolding & plumbing, as well as a filter. When bought from Van's, it also includes a mounting kit . The $93 pump from summit racing is just for the pump only. Skylor RV-8 Under Construction FWF, Avionics --- DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > > > These pumps are not rocket science but they are > obviously "aircraft" parts > because the price is about 10 TIMES what it ought to > be. I ended up with an > AFP fuel pump when Mattituck sent me my finished > engine. I can't help but > speculate that there HAS to be a similar pump in the > auto racing world that > can be used for this purpose. That pump will likely > cost between 50-100 > dollars and be of equal or better quality than a PMA > stamped part (who knows > maybe even AFP adapts one of these pumps). Not to > knock the AFP system, it's > likely the best mechanical system to be had today > and Don Rivera's service > is top notch. But... these ridiculous prices for > simple and proven pumping > technology is idiotic (like many old low tech > aircraft parts). Anyone > researched using an automotive racing pump (ie. > Holley, Edelbrock, etc) for > this purpose. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Always blown away by the cost of "aircraft" parts. > > > >Subject: RE: RV-List: Curious > >From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com> > > > >The Airflow Performance boost pump is around 500.00 > bucks. Lighweight, > >simple in design and works. Everybody I know has > problems with Duke > >pumps and end up chucking them in the trash. > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel Pumps
Date: Sep 12, 2006
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mstewart(at)iss.net>
A direct fuel pump replacement for the AFP electric fuel pump is the Carter fuel pump part number P74015 I have replaced mine on the road before readily available from Napa or autozone ~$120 A search of the archives will help. Message 121131 It was Charlie Kuss that had all the G2 on the pumps and filters. I had 2 pumps maybe 3 die on my rv-6 in 1500 hours. I had to run my pump above 7k' for vapor lock so mine ran a lot. A change in the filter element to a finer filter solved the problem and I used that same smaller micron filter for my 8. Enjoy, Mike -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skylor Piper Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 6:18 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Fuel Pumps Here's an MSD pump from Summit Racing that appears to be very similiar to the actual AFP pump: http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=MSD%2D222 5&N=700+4294925239+4294839053+4294836965+4294891680+115&autoview=sku (the link may be broken...) $93. Keep in mind, however, that the AFP pump includes a pressure reliev valve, the bypass check valve & associated manifolding & plumbing, as well as a filter. When bought from Van's, it also includes a mounting kit . The $93 pump from summit racing is just for the pump only. Skylor RV-8 Under Construction FWF, Avionics --- DEAN PSIROPOULOS wrote: > > > These pumps are not rocket science but they are > obviously "aircraft" parts > because the price is about 10 TIMES what it ought to > be. I ended up with an > AFP fuel pump when Mattituck sent me my finished > engine. I can't help but > speculate that there HAS to be a similar pump in the > auto racing world that > can be used for this purpose. That pump will likely > cost between 50-100 > dollars and be of equal or better quality than a PMA > stamped part (who knows > maybe even AFP adapts one of these pumps). Not to > knock the AFP system, it's > likely the best mechanical system to be had today > and Don Rivera's service > is top notch. But... these ridiculous prices for > simple and proven pumping > technology is idiotic (like many old low tech > aircraft parts). Anyone > researched using an automotive racing pump (ie. > Holley, Edelbrock, etc) for > this purpose. > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Always blown away by the cost of "aircraft" parts. > > > >Subject: RE: RV-List: Curious > >From: "BPA" <BPA(at)bpaengines.com> > > > >The Airflow Performance boost pump is around 500.00 > bucks. Lighweight, > >simple in design and works. Everybody I know has > problems with Duke > >pumps and end up chucking them in the trash. > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > Admin. > > > > > __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Magneto question
In a message dated 9/12/06 12:31:18 AM Eastern Daylight Time, wgill10(at)comcast.net writes: > Hi: > > Thanks to all that wrote, with suggestions, on my mail, about rough > engine.. > > Getting the time on Mgs., and cleaning and regaping plugs, worked.. > > Engine running much better now.. > > > BUT,,,,NOW I GET OVER 170 RPMS, BETWEEN MAGS, IT SHOULD BE NOT OVER > 150....eng. lycoming 0320E2D..150 HP. Difference between each is > ok...50... > > ON THIS NO IDEA, WHAT IS TO BE DONE ..... > > SUGGESTIONS APRECIATED... CHUCK WHAT SAY YOU// > > THANKS > > > BERT ==================================== Bert: A bit difficult to decipher the problem. The requirement is 150 RPM drop for EACH Mag and a 50 RPM drop between BOTH Mags. Now, the problem sounds like TIMING. Have you set the timing to 25 D BTDC? You did say you cleaned and gaped the plugs. Did you also check the spring on the spark plug wires? They should be clean and making good contact BEFORE the holding nut is tightened down. What plugs are you using? What Gap did you set? If your timing is off you can get quite a bit of lead fouling. Also LEAN ... LEAN ... LEAN. On the Ground and in the Air. There are lots more things to check but first start with the basics. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "hangerq" <gilbey(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: rv-9
Date: Sep 12, 2006
listers, theres a real nice rv-9A for sale in fayetteville NC,guy wants to sell,has no time to fly,has 90 hours on the plane,160 hp engine,fixed pitch,this airplane is nice,every thing in the plane is new,nothing used in it,any body looking for a nice rv this is it, if interested contact bobby at 910-8182820,believe he wants $87K, frank rv6a 0360 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Davenport" <ddavenport5(at)nc.rr.com>
Subject: RV10 Tail Kit For Sale
Date: Sep 12, 2006
One of the local RV builders here in the Fayetteviile, NC area has an RV10 tail kit that he has finished all the tail feather work on, but has decided to go in another direction. Therefore, we have a tail kit for sale. The workmanship is very good, and the firm asking price is $3200.00. This is less than the tail kit itself, much less getting it shipped to you. One picture is attached. If you are interested, reply off list, and I'll send more pictures, then we can talk. David Davenport RV-6 N168DD 228 Hrs. ddavenport5(at)nc.rr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Becki" <becki@fly-gbi.com>
Subject: Orndorff News
Date: Sep 12, 2006
Greetings to everyone in RV Land! We want to share some news. We have decided to relocate to North Carolina to be closer to aging parents and the rest of our families. We'll be building a new house and hangar at Gold Hill Airpark near Charlotte and will continue to support the RV community from there. Our house and hangar at Propwash Airport in Justin, Texas are now for sale. Propwash Airport is one of the best kept secrets in the Dallas-Fort Worth metroplex. Here's a link to the web page for our house and information about Propwash: www.argylemls.com/airports/propwash/15647cessna.htm Please give us or Maybeth a call if you would like more information. We'll keep everyone up to date as this adventure progresses. Thanks to everyone for all your support in the past! George and Becki Orndorff GeoBeck, Inc. 940-648-0841 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy
Date: Sep 13, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
I also saw the same effect with the older solution. I keep it in a 32 gallon Rubbermaid trash can that doubles as the dip tank. As it approached 6 months old it was taking forever for it to convert a layer on the aluminum. I guessed that it was mainly due to the chemicals precipitating out and was apparently correct. I added a couple aquarium style circulating power heads and it was like new after that. Going on 1.5 years on the same original batch and completed the majority of parts on my RV-10. I also keep it covered and out of direct sunlight. Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of messydeer Sent: Sunday, September 03, 2006 9:34 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Iridite Wanted to Buy Thanks for the tips, again, Barry. I had talked with Henkel before using alodine. They had mentioned it could be recycled. What I found was that as I reused the solution, it took a longer dwell time to get the same results. So I ended up adding straight alodine to the recycled solution. So I'd like to be prepared to use solutions on the stronger side to speed up the process, especially since the baths will be tap water cold. I supposed I could use hot water to start with, but it would cool quite a bit anyway before finishing my parts for the day. Charlie: Where do you get your powder? Dan Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=59194#59194 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Medema" <doug.medema(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Did you paint your own airplane?
Date: Sep 13, 2006
My plane is almost 3 years old and is greatly in need of a paint job! I'm seriously thinking of painting it myself and have some questions for those of you who were brave enough (or foolish enough??) to paint your own airplane: Are you happy with the results? Knowing what you know now, would you do it again or pay someone else? Did you have any painting experience before you painted your plane? Any idea of how many hours in prep and paint? If you feel like typing: Which brand and type of paint did you use? What kind of paint gun? If HVLP, was it with a standard compressor or one of the special HVLP paint setups? Thanks in advance, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM (just put on new main gear tires today!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Responses are embedded below... KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Medema To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 9:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Did you paint your own airplane? My plane is almost 3 years old and is greatly in need of a paint job! I'm seriously thinking of painting it myself and have some questions for those of you who were brave enough (or foolish enough??) to paint your own airplane: Are you happy with the results? Absolutely. I get compliments all the time. Knowing what you know now, would you do it again or pay someone else? How fat is my bank account at that particular time? Seriously, painting the aircraft was the most challenging part of the whole project. The most obvious difficulty is that an attached garage covered in aluminum dust is a heck of a place to paint an airplane. Did you have any painting experience before you painted your plane? Zero experience. Painting a second airplane would be far easier than painting the first one. Any idea of how many hours in prep and paint? Lots.. Maybe 200, considering cleaning the garage, hanging plastic, making air filters, etc. If you feel like typing: Which brand and type of paint did you use? I used hardened Dupont Centari. Next time I'd use either Dupont's Imron or PPG's Concept. What kind of paint gun? If HVLP, was it with a standard compressor or one of the special HVLP paint setups? Standard sprayer with a standard compressor. Thanks in advance, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM (just put on new main gear tires today!) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McMahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Annual RV Fly-In Sept 30
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Well the last 2 years we got rained out,sooo we are going to try again..We have Plaques, food, etc best metal ,longest distance and all that good stuff..It is Lebanon,Tn (M54) 20 miles east of Nashville,Tn on Sept 30th.. John McMahon (RV6 180/CS) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McMahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Mike Seager Training RV-10
Date: Sep 13, 2006
To those that my need some time in the RV-10,Mike Seager has some slots free on Sat 16th at (1M5) Portland,Tn... Give me a call on my cell 615-336-2340 and I will try to get you in!! John McMahon (RV6 180 C/S) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 13, 2006
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Doug Medema wrote: > If you feel like typing: > Which brand and type of paint did you use? Doug, here is the tale of the paint job on my RV-6: http://thervjournal.com/paint1.html Painting a plane is a big job, but one that can be accomplished by a patient, persistent amateur. If your plane is still unpainted, you are probably still at the 90% completion point. :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Did you paint your own airplane?
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Here's a piece Darwin Barrie wrote on the subject http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/articles/painting.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: N67BT(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 13, 2006
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
I've just started painting my RV7A. The difference is that my plane hasn't flown yet and is still unassembled. <> I've painted the cowl and miscellaneous small parts so far and like the look but it isn't perfect. <> This is a huge job, a project within a project. I don't know if I would have taken this on had I known how much there is to it. That said, I'm glad I was ignorant on that count because now I'm enjoying the work and the associated satisfaction. <> Nothing like this. <> I quit logging time during the painting process, but I've been at this for over two months of full time work. <> PPG Deltron DBC2000 silver metallic base coat and PPG Concept DCU2002 clear. <> DiVilbiss GTi 620G HVLP (great gun but it needs lots of air - 15.5 CFM) <> Standard compressor (had to buy a bigger one) My project web site happens to have some pics of my temporary paint booth setup. _http://mesawood.com/n67bt.htm_ (http://mesawood.com/n67bt.htm) I'll post some photos of the paint work there after I get more done. Bob Trumpfheller ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: "Thomas Lukasczyk" <Lukasczyk(at)gmx.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Hi Doug I was asking myself that question when my RV-4 was about to be finished. I do have some painting experience and equipment. I had spraypainted cars and I also had a workshop available that could be set up for that purpose. I still took it to a paint-shop and had somebody else do the job. Maybe because of that little experience i had. Here are the reasons: No matter how good I am, I beleive somebody who ist doing it for a living with a lot of experience will do it better No matter how good my home-setup is, A professional shop with a proper filter system, heating and lighting is better ground to start with Professionals usually do the job much faster and use less paint to achieve the desired results. In my case, the guy worked out a 4-layer painting concept with primer, surfacer, paint and clearcoat to save weight. The entire job only added 9 pounds of weight. I know because they put every single part on a scale and compared the weight before and after since I once mentioned that I wanted it to be as light as possible. The price was all right (2500 Euros including paint and they did all the prep-work). Maybe that was because it was a car paint-shop and I only wanted one color and there was only a little bit of masking. I had to rent a truck to drive the disassembled plane down there. But that was not to bad since everything was ready a week later. I would do it again that way and I am very happy with the results so far. I am sorry but I do not remember the brand of the paint but they used a zink-chromate wash primer and a surfacer (I beleive polyester based but I am not sure) that was compatible. The paint was a 2-component base and clearcoat acryl-car-paint. Thomas RV-4, germany http://www.rv-4.de/ -------- Original-Nachricht -------- Von: "Doug Medema" An: rv-list(at)matronics.com Betreff: RV-List: Did you paint your own airplane? > My plane is almost 3 years old and is greatly in need of a > paint job! > > I'm seriously thinking of painting it myself and have some > questions > for those of you who were brave enough (or foolish enough??) > to paint > your own airplane: > > Are you happy with the results? > > Knowing what you know now, would you do it again or pay > someone else? > > Did you have any painting experience before you painted your > plane? > > Any idea of how many hours in prep and paint? > > If you feel like typing: > Which brand and type of paint did you use? > > What kind of paint gun? If HVLP, was it with a standard > compressor > or one of the special HVLP paint setups? > > Thanks in advance, > Doug Medema > RV-6A N276DM (just put on new main gear tires today!) > > -- "Feel free" - 10 GB Mailbox, 100 FreeSMS/Monat ... Jetzt GMX TopMail testen: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/topmail ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Subject: Re: 10 Vane Oil Cooler
In a message dated 9/6/2006 9:15:14 PM Eastern Standard Time, dale1rv6(at)comcast.net writes: Barry, Our oil cooler came from Vans, 4/11/2001, part number 4215, per Vans invoice; "EA OIL COOLER 4215, OIL COOLER FOR IO-360". I had forgotten our cooler was for the IO and not the "O" model, but I would recommend it. We have the O-360, 180 hp. I will try to find the mfg info next time I take the bottom cowl off. Maybe Vans can tell you who makes the #4215. Pic attached. Dale ========================================================= Dale: I'm getting back into the oil cooling mode and doing some research. I looked up the part number you gave and was able to get to ACS web site where they gave a description and sizes of the cooler for your part number (OIL COOLER 4215, from POSITECH). It is listed as a 8 row cooler, is yours an 8 row cooler? I saw one on an RV-6A and if I counted correctly it was a 10 Row Cooler. I will have to get back to that plane and take some measurements because I have had different opinions on How to Count Rows. My feeling is a row is the part where the Oil Passes Through. Some say it is the part where the Air Passes Through, what is your opinions? The part number for the 10 Row Cooler is: POSITECH # P20005C and ACS # 4216. The BIG difference is the 10 rows and it is 1" Longer. Dale, thanks for the picture also, nice mounting job. Would you happen to have a picture face on to the fins so I can see what the difference might be between the 4215 and 4216? What are your opinions? Barry ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sheldon barrett" <sheldonb(at)frontiernet.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Doug, I painted my RV6A in 1992 before it was assembled... I painted small parts at the house, in the garage without any kind of 'paint-booth' set-up... I painted the fuse. and wings in my (at that time) work place paint booth. Which was an open end type with blowers and a water fall in the rear... (Not the best) but at least better than trying to paint these larger pieces at home... I used PPG Deltron base coat and PPG clear coat... The base coat paint is very easy paint to apply (just like painting flat paint) which it is, kinda... The clear coat is where painting experience would sure help.. Very difficult to get the proper results... You must wear protective equipment...!! I took 6 weekends to do all the painting... Something like 150-180 hours total.. but not including the sanding & buffing out the clear coats..(didn't keep track)... Only cost me $1200 at that time, including the HVLP gun I bought. I would do it again..?? The satisfaction and (the comments I get) at fly-in's make it really worth it.. Yes! I would do it again...(especially now that I've done it once)... Sheldon Barrett RV6A 400 hours ----- Original Message ----- From: Doug Medema To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 6:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Did you paint your own airplane? My plane is almost 3 years old and is greatly in need of a paint job! I'm seriously thinking of painting it myself and have some questions for those of you who were brave enough (or foolish enough??) to paint your own airplane: Are you happy with the results? Knowing what you know now, would you do it again or pay someone else? Did you have any painting experience before you painted your plane? Any idea of how many hours in prep and paint? If you feel like typing: Which brand and type of paint did you use? What kind of paint gun? If HVLP, was it with a standard compressor or one of the special HVLP paint setups? Thanks in advance, Doug Medema RV-6A N276DM (just put on new main gear tires today!) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Like anything, this is part of the learning experience that I wanted to learn. Yes I would do it again, and I am happy with the results. For me it really was an enjoyable experience, I just marveled at how the airplane changed as I painted each part or section. I used a PPG paint with a PPG wash primer. I know, it was not the right combination, but, I like it!! Five years later and it looks better to me than it did when it came out of the paint barn. Some people just love the paint job, others tolerate it and some keep asking when I am going to paint it? Bob At 08:01 PM 9/13/06, you wrote: >My plane is almost 3 years old and is greatly in need of a paint job! > >I'm seriously thinking of painting it myself and have some questions >for those of you who were brave enough (or foolish enough??) to paint >your own airplane: > >Are you happy with the results? > >Knowing what you know now, would you do it again or pay someone else? > >Did you have any painting experience before you painted your plane? > >Any idea of how many hours in prep and paint? > >If you feel like typing: >Which brand and type of paint did you use? > >What kind of paint gun? If HVLP, was it with a standard compressor >or one of the special HVLP paint setups? > >Thanks in advance, >Doug Medema >RV-6A N276DM (just put on new main gear tires today!) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Annual RV Fly-In Sept 30
Date: Sep 14, 2006
So, where is the fly in??????? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Annual RV Fly-In Sept 30
L Klingmuller wrote: > So, where is the fly in??????? Here is the message as originally posted: > Well the last 2 years we got rained out,sooo we are going to > try again..We have Plaques, food, etc best metal ,longest distance > and all that good stuff..It is Lebanon,Tn (M54) 20 miles east of > Nashville,Tn on Sept 30th.. > John McMahon (RV6 180/CS) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Epoxy sale
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Howdy all- Jamestown distributors is having a 10% off sale on all West Systems products. Resin is as low as $13 / Qt... if you buy a 52 gallon drum! glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
Subject: paint
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Doug, you don't neeed nooo steankin' paint, jus' fly it. And by the way start flying it some where, more often... three years and only one set of tires... geesh, for a retired guy you need to get yor priorities tuned up a bit. Truth be told, get some flat stock and practice painting with a few brands and see what you like and don't like. See if you can borrow an HVLP or standard type to play with a bit. The other thang to decide is do you want a two inch airplane or a twenty foot airplane. Most are twenty foot meaning you see no anomallies at a 20ft distance. This is what really determines the amount of time you will put into it. Both are good, neither are bad, just different missions. Show takes a ton of work to get there and to keep it at show level but you get lots of ground attention. A working airplane is just that, it works a lot, gets experimented on and takes an occasional cosmetic ding just because and you rarely have to clean drool off of your paint job as most will tend to ignore your plane. So decide what you value more... I built a show plane once and got very tired of fixing the damage regularly done by lookiloo idiots. Also in terms of a paint scheme flashy looks pretty sitting on the ground but it is easily identifiable from the air if you are out having some low level fun. Conversely white looks like any other airplane but may not be the most visible color for anticollision benefits, and silver is the worst. Several auto studies show silver cars having much higher accident rates particularly at dawn and dusk. More colors add a ton of time and weight to the job as well. all stuff to think about... W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Saylor" <Dave(at)AirCraftersLLC.com>
Subject: SportAir RV Workshop Nov 18/19 Watsonville, CA
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Good News! We are scheduled for a SportAir RV workshop, November 18/19, 2006 at AirCrafters in Watsonville, CA. If you would like to attend, please go to <http://www.sportair.org/> http://www.sportair.org/ to register, or call EAA at 1-800-967-5746 for more information. Please note: The Watsonville workshop is not listed on the SportAir web page as of this morning at 10:30PDT, but I have received confirmation from EAA that the workshop is planned and will be announced soon. Thanks to all those who have expressed interest! Dave Saylor AirCrafters LLC 140 Aviation Way Watsonville, CA 831-722-9141 www.AirCraftersLLC.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Mcmahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Annual RV Fly-In Sept 30
Date: Sep 14, 2006
(M54 )Lebanon,Tn ----- Original Message ----- From: L Klingmuller To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 9:12 AM Subject: re: RV-List: Annual RV Fly-In Sept 30 So, where is the fly in??????? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: MLWynn(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Subject: Re: SportAir RV Workshop Nov 18/19 Watsonville, CA
Hi Dave Is this the introduction to RV assembly class? I attended same in Corona before ordering my empennage. Definitely worth the time and expense. Regards, Michael Wynn RV 8 Wings (ailerons) San Ramon, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <ronschreck(at)windstream.net>
Subject: SL-70 Wanted
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Hi all, I'm looking for an Apollo SL-70 transponder, new or yellow tagged for a certified aircraft. Someone must have one gathering dust in the garage/hangar? Ron Schreck RV-8 "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JhnstnIII(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 14, 2006
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
I will chime in. I painted our RV-6 at my house. I believe it took about six months of steady night and weekend work plus some vacation days. People tell me it looks very good and I think so, too. Paint was Dupont Imron over Variprime, three colors. Surface was etched but not alodined. It was a big and difficult job, but then nothing about these projects is easy in my opinion. This was my first airplane. I would do it again Talk to painters with experience first. They will have many good tips. I painted parts in a room in my house and later in the garage when the weather got warm. In both places we rigged a powerful squirrel cage fan (from a buddy--it was like what is in your furnace) to exhaust the fumes to the outside. We built a wooden exhaust plenum with three round outlets to split the exhaust into three flexible 6 inch dia. ducts about eight feet long that lay on the ground spread apart with bricks in them to hold them down. The idea was to diffuse the exhaust so as not to paint the outside of the house. For the inlet to the room/garage, we built a plywood door panel with two large furnace filters in it and a latch mechanism to alow ingress and egress. In a separate room away from the fumes we had a Hobbyair respirator and the hose went through a hole in the wall to the paint room. When painting I wore a Tyvek paint suit, painter's stretchy hood (like a balaclava) and gloves plus the respirator mask. I always had fresh air flowing into the mask and could not smell the paint. My understanding was this paint will kill you and you should take no chances on fumes. We have a large air compressor. We bought a $400 system that goes in the line to dry the air, remove all oil drops, and remove all debris. The cannister with silica that dries the air lasted the whole job without needing to be replaced. I used a Devilbiss HVLP gun. We filled all the rivets, not to go faster (unlikely), but to make the paint easier to flow out. This is a lot of work but it sure is pretty later and it is easier to paint especially on the unavoidable vertical surfaces like the fuselage sides. Still looking for a filler that goes on easy, sands easy, and is smooth. We tried various. Because we essentially sanded it all off, weight gain was negligible. I'm remembering now what a pain the filling of pinholes in the fiberglass parts was. I hate them pinholes. Not sure what a professional painter would do about them. I'm not sure of our exact costs. I'm guessing paint, equipment, endless paper towels and gloves, sandpaper, etc, probably came to $3,000. I did a lot of things over as I learned, Imron can be sanded and I did plenty of that. The difficult part is the art of paint application--too little and you have orange peel, too much and it runs. The distance between the two is narrow. Here's the thing. When it's over, you forget the misery and the time. You fly and you're happy. LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio. RV-6 Esperanza--flying. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: bill shook <billshook2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Denver area RV'rs
I'm told there is a fairly large group of us here in Denver. Front range airport in particular so I hear. Do we have a builders group of wise and knowledged builders that roam from home to home dispensing said knowledge in exchange for beer? Or perhaps the occasional get together at a place where aircraft are known to leave the ground and most of the time come back? Where are you gents hiding? Bill Shook -4 finally rolling again __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
Bill ther are quite a few of us out at the Longmont Airport, about twenty five flying and I know of at least three or four under construction, so if you are on the west side of town are you closest to BJC or Longmont? Mark Phipps, Flying RV6A bill shook wrote: I'm told there is a fairly large group of us here in Denver. Front range airport in particular so I hear. Do we have a builders group of wise and knowledged builders that roam from home to home dispensing said knowledge in exchange for beer? Or perhaps the occasional get together at a place where aircraft are known to leave the ground and most of the time come back? Where are you gents hiding? Bill Shook -4 finally rolling again __________________________________________________ --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: bill shook <billshook2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
--- mark phipps wrote: > Bill ther are quite a few of us out at the Longmont Airport, about twenty five flying > and I know of at least three or four under construction, so if you are on the west > side of town are you closest to BJC or Longmont? > Mark Phipps, Flying RV6A I am on the southeast side. Pretty close to 470 and smokey hill. Do you west side boys get together for breakfast and that sort of thing? Bill __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 14, 2006
From: mark phipps <skydive80020(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
We meet on Wednesday's at the BJC airport for lunch at noon. --- mark phipps wrote: > Bill ther are quite a few of us out at the Longmont Airport, about twenty five flying > and I know of at least three or four under construction, so if you are on the west > side of town are you closest to BJC or Longmont? > Mark Phipps, Flying RV6A I am on the southeast side. Pretty close to 470 and smokey hill. Do you west side boys get together for breakfast and that sort of thing? Bill __________________________________________________ --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Date: Sep 15, 2006
Thanks for reminding me why I won't personally paint mine and when the time comes will happily write that check to a pro! :-) They fly great unpainted. It's hangared. I suppose it'll get painted when I stop smiling every time I look at it and I'm glad I was flying instead of painting these past 6 months. Question I do have is what's the short/long term affects on the fiberglass parts that aren't painted? I have some primer on some fiberglass parts but not all of them. Spinner comes to mind as something that's not primed at the moment. -------------- Original message -------------- From: JhnstnIII(at)aol.com I will chime in. I painted our RV-6 at my house. I believe it took about six months of steady night and weekend work plus some vacation days. People tell me it looks very good and I think so, too. Paint was Dupont Imron over Variprime, three colors. Surface was etched but not alodined. It was a big and difficult job, but then nothing about these projects is easy in my opinion. This was my first airplane. I would do it again Talk to painters with experience first. They will have many good tips. I painted parts in a room in my house and later in the garage when the weather got warm. In both places we rigged a powerful squirrel cage fan (from a buddy--it was like what is in your furnace) to exhaust the fumes to the outside. We built a wooden exhaust plenum with three round outlets to split the exhaust into three flexible 6 inch dia. ducts about eight feet long that lay on the ground spread apart with bricks in them to hold them down. The idea was to diffuse the exhaust so as not to paint the outside of the house. For the inlet to the room/garage, we built a plywood door panel with two large furnace filters in it and a latch mechanism to alow ingress and egress. In a separate room away from the fumes we had a Hobbyair respirator and the hose went through a hole in the wall to the paint room. When painting I wore a Tyvek paint suit, painter's stretchy hood (like a balaclava) and gloves plus the respirator mask. I always had fresh air flowing into the mask and could not smell the paint. My understanding was this paint will kill you and you should take no chances on fumes. We have a large air compressor. We bought a $400 system that goes in the line to dry the air, remove all oil drops, and remove all debris. The cannister with silica that dries the air lasted the whole job without needing to be replaced. I used a Devilbiss HVLP gun. We filled all the rivets, not to go faster (unlikely), but to make the paint easier to flow out. This is a lot of work but it sure is pretty later and it is easier to paint especially on the unavoidable vertical surfaces like the fuselage sides. Still looking for a filler that goes on easy, sands easy, and is smooth. We tried various. Because we essentially sanded it all off, weight gain was negligible. I'm remembering now what a pain the filling of pinholes in the fiberglass parts was. I hate them pinholes. Not sure what a professional painter would do about them. I'm not sure of our exact costs. I'm guessing paint, equipment, endless paper towels and gloves, sandpaper, etc, probably came to $3,000. I did a lot of things over as I learned, Imron can be sanded and I did plenty of that. The difficult part is the art of paint application--too little and you have orange peel, too much and it runs. The distance between the two is narrow. Here's the thing. When it's over, you forget the misery and the time. You fly and you're happy. LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio. RV-6 Esperanza--flying.
Thanks for reminding me why I won't personally paint mine and when the time comes will happily write that check to a pro! :-)

They fly great unpainted. It's hangared. I suppose it'll get painted when I stop smiling every time I look at it and I'm glad I was flying instead of painting these past 6 months.

Question I do have is what's the short/long term affects on the fiberglass parts that aren't painted? I have some primer on some fiberglass parts but not all of them. Spinner comes to mind as something that's not primed at the moment.

I will chime in. I painted our RV-6 at my house. I believe it took about six months of steady night and weekend work plus some vacation days.   People tell me it looks very good and I think so, too.  Paint was Dupont Imron over Variprime, three colors. Surface was etched but not alodined.

It was a big and difficult job, but then nothing about these projects is easy in my opinion. This was my first airplane. I would do it again

Talk to painters with experience first. They will have many good tips.

I painted parts in a room in my house and later in the garage when the weather got warm. In both places we rigged a powerful squirrel cage fan (from a buddy--it was like what is in your furnace) to exhaust the fumes to the outside.  We built a wooden exhaust plenum with three round outlets to split the exhaust into three flexible 6 inch dia. ducts about eight feet long that lay on the ground spread apart with bricks in them to hold them down.   The idea was to diffuse the exhaust so as not to paint the outside of the house.   For the inlet to the room/garage, we built a plywood door panel with two large furnace filters in it and a latch mechanism to alow ingress and egress.

In a separate room away from the fumes we had a Hobbyair respirator and the hose went through a hole in the wall to the paint room.

When painting I wore a Tyvek paint suit, painter's stretchy hood (like a balaclava) and gloves plus the respirator mask. I always had fresh air flowing into the mask and could not smell the paint.   My understanding was this paint will kill you and you should take no chances on fumes.

We have a large air compressor. We bought a $400 system that goes in the line to dry the air, remove all oil drops, and remove all debris. The cannister with silica that dries the air lasted the whole job without needing to be replaced.  I used a Devilbiss HVLP gun.

We filled all the rivets, not to go faster (unlikely), but to make the paint easier to flow out. This is a lot of work but it sure is pretty later and it is easier to paint especially on the unavoidable vertical surfaces like the fuselage sides. Still looking for a filler that goes on easy, sands easy, and is smooth. We tried various. Because we essentially sanded it all off, weight gain was negligible.

I'm remembering now what a pain the filling of pinholes in the fiberglass parts was. I hate them pinholes. Not sure what a professional painter would do about them.

I'm not sure of our exact costs. I'm guessing paint, equipment, endless paper towels and gloves, sandpaper, etc, probably came to $3,000. I did a lot of things over as I learned, Imron can be sanded and I did plenty of that.

The difficult part is the art of paint application--too little and you have orange peel, too much and it runs. The distance between the two is narrow.

Here's the thing. When it's over, you forget the misery and the time. You fly and you're happy.

LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio. RV-6 Esperanza--flying.

________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
From: "Dave Johnson" <rv(at)discursion.com>
Date: Sep 15, 2006
I'm glad you asked, Bill. I have a 7A under construction and go to the monthly EAA chapter meetings, but overall have been wanting to get to know some of the local RVers more...seems like the groups are pretty well formed, and I feel a little odd about inserting myself into the circle. I live at Erie, BTW. Dave Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=61789#61789 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "smitty(at)smittysrv.com" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Date: Sep 15, 2006
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
I think I'm going to paint mine myself. A good friend of mine told me practice on a my metal trash can, to get the initial ah-ha's out of the way. Besides, it will neighborhood association group something to talk about. Smitty http://SmittysRV.com -------------------------------------------------------------------- mail2web - Check your email from the web at http://mail2web.com/ . ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 15, 2006
From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
snipped > We have a large air compressor. We bought a $400 system that goes in the > line to dry the air, remove all oil drops, and remove all debris. The > cannister with silica that dries the air lasted the whole job without needing to be > replaced. snipped > LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio. RV-6 Esperanza--flying. LeRoy, Could you tell us more about the drier unit you used? What make and model? Where did you buy it? Charlie Kuss ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Did you paint your own airplane?
Date: Sep 15, 2006
----- Original Message ----- From: <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net> Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 2:36 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Did you paint your own airplane? > > > snipped >> We have a large air compressor. We bought a $400 system that goes in >> the >> line to dry the air, remove all oil drops, and remove all debris. The >> cannister with silica that dries the air lasted the whole job without >> needing to be >> replaced. snipped >> LeRoy Johnston and David White in Ohio. RV-6 Esperanza--flying. > > LeRoy, > Could you tell us more about the drier unit you used? What make and model? > Where did you buy it? > Charlie Kuss > I'm sure the $400 unit is a great product, but I used two $10 harbor freight air/water separators in series when I painted my plane and saw no evidence of water reaching the spray gun. One item of wisdom I learned back then was to make sure any separator you use is at a low point in the air piping system, so any condensation in the lines runs down to the separator. FYI, I live near Atlanta, GA and we have plenty of humidity here. One thing which I'm sure helped was that whenever I was spraying paint (as opposed to primer), I put the compressor inside the air conditioned house where the humidity should have been far less than outdoor ambient. KB > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: John Loretz <rv8(at)loretz.us>
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
Date: Sep 15, 2006
Centennial Airport RV8'er here... On Sep 14, 2006, at 7:55 PM, bill shook wrote: > > I'm told there is a fairly large group of us here in Denver. Front > range airport in > particular so I hear. Do we have a builders group of wise and > knowledged builders that > roam from home to home dispensing said knowledge in exchange for > beer? Or perhaps the > occasional get together at a place where aircraft are known to > leave the ground and most > of the time come back? Where are you gents hiding? > > Bill Shook > -4 finally rolling again > > __________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: aerobatics and constant speed prop
Date: Sep 16, 2006
For over the top maneuvers and Split Ss, how are folks setting up their MP/RPM settings?
For over the top maneuvers and Split Ss, how are folks setting up their MP/RPM settings?

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: aerobatics and constant speed prop
Date: Sep 15, 2006
2400-2500 RPM is what I use for all light acro other than rolls (which I do at basically any RPM). )_( Dan RV-7 N714D http://www.rvproject.com ----- Original Message ----- From: lucky To: RV-List Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 5:29 PM Subject: RV-List: aerobatics and constant speed prop For over the top maneuvers and Split Ss, how are folks setting up their MP/RPM settings? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2006
From: <jrlewismail-rv(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-7 For Sale
I am selling my RV-7 as part of a divorce settlement. I will gladly answer any questions anyone may have -- even build questions. I bought this kit new a few years ago and have almost completed it. While I am required to s ell this kit, this is NOT a fire sale. Any real RV'er will quickly realize there is over $60K in parts alone listed with no compensation for build ti me. Nevertheless, I will consider reasonable offers. The buyer of my airc raft will safe about 1,500 hours of build time and have an exceptional airc raft at a fraction of the retail cost. A month ago I placed this kit on a trailer in a secured storage unit located in northern Indiana. I am currently working in Washington DC, but will gladly meet with a SERI OUS buyer to show the plane. Please, if you really want to buy an exceptio nal kit at a reasonable price then fine, contact me. If you just want to l ook at an RV then please go to your local airport. There are many exceptio nal RVs and the owners are all great people who will let you bend their ear . My point is .... please don't waste my time. Interested persons may con tact me directly at the following email: jrlewismail-rv(at)yahoo.com For now I will not set a price, but will rather solicit reasonable offers. I w ill know a lot about you by the questions you ask and the offer you suggest . If your comments are ridiculous then it is unlikely you will succeed in convincing me to travel to Indiana to show you my plane. Sorry, just being honest. For the serious RV'ers, please feel free to pass this info to any one you know who is not on this board but who you think might be interested . Info on my plane: RV-7 (not an =9CA=9D) w/ slider canopy; QB complete with ALL ki t parts Build Status: - Ready for engine (not included) - Avionics are included, but panel is not cut yet (allows your desired pla cement) - Ready for canopy install (after panel & engine placement) Equipment / Accessories included: - Fuel tank flop tubes (for inverted flight) - Strobes - 2 axis Auto-Pilot W/ Vertical Speed Hold & GPS Track (servos installed) - Blue Mountain Avionics EFIS - RMI Monitor - RMI Encoder w/independent compass system - Dynon EFIS - Dual Pitot static systems - Landing light - Taxi Light - Electric Aileron and Elevator Trim - Custom stick grips enable trim, auto-pilot, and nav control - Electric Flaps - EMI Fuel Monitor System - Wingtip comm./nav antennas - Sitting on a custom built 20 ft flatbed trailer - Top aviation grade wiring installed Over $60K invested (not including any build time) - If it looks like I have made a typo then ask.. I will clarify what I have written. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2006
From: "Corey Crawford" <corey.crawford(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
This is a great idea and one I've thought about before. Since there seems to be at least a few of us, I figured I'd give it a shot. Please see: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ColoradoRV/ Hopefully enough people join that'd it be useful for get together's and other events in the Colorado area. -- Corey Crawford On 9/15/06, Phil Birkelbach wrote: > > Here in Houston there are a bunch of RV builders that get together > once a month or so and we organize through a yahoo group that we > created. It works great. > > Phil > RV-7 727WB ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2006
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Denver area RV'rs
We have a Texas RV group... http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CenTex_RV_Aircraft/ It's growing and seems to be working well. Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2006
From: Louis Willig <larywil(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Advice on AvMAP EKP-IV GPS
Hi gang, I have been using the older Magellan large screen GPS for about 8 years. Now that it has crapped out, I'm looking for advice for a replacement. The newer model is marketed as the AvMap EKP-IV. Everyone on the list seems to own one of the Garmin products - the standard of the industry. Does anyone have an AvMap EKP-IV? Are you happy with the new features and the high speed processing. Can anyone comment on the AvMap IV vs. the Garmin 296? All advice will be gratefully accepted. Thanks. Louis - Louis I Willig 1640 Oakwood Dr. Penn Valley, PA 19072 610 668-4964 RV-4, N180PF 190HP IO-360, C/S prop, 501 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 16, 2006
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <service(at)snapfish.com>
Subject: Unfortunate Mistake
I had an accident this afternoon when on of my RV-10 Quick Build wings slip ped off the cradle. The inboard leading edge was dented and the inboard fue l tank panel was slightly deformed. I am looking for advice on how to grace fully recover from this (completely preventable) mistake. David Maib #40559 tailcone --------------------------------------------------- Get FREE 4x6 prints from my album(s)!* View my photos! I invite you to view the following photo album(s): Photos from dmaib(at)mac.com Here's how: http://www1.snapfish.com/getimageforshare/p=412161158460842234/l=210746 949/s=57221756/t=ISH/g=73078138/otsc=SYE/otsi=SAIS 1) Visit the link below to access my photos on Snapfish. Dmaib@mac....'s photos 2) You'll be asked to type in your name and email address and then choose a password. This ensures the privacy of my pictures and also sets up your ow n password-protected account on Snapfish. If the link above does not work, highlight the link below using your cursor . Then copy and paste the link into your browser address window and hit th e "Enter" or "Return" key on your keyboard. http://www1.snapfish.com/share/p=412161158460842234/l=210746949/g=730 78138/otsc=SYE/otsi=SAIS 3) If you'd like, you can easily order reprints or enlargements of my photo s, right from Snapfish for as low as 12¢ each -- every day! Just click the "order prints" button while viewing my photos to place an order. *First-time customers only. http://www.snapfish.com/infothreefree/otsc=SYE/otsi=SAIS Snapfish - the best value in photography. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mick Muller" <mmul6471(at)bigpond.net.au>
Subject: Oz RV Builders
Date: Sep 17, 2006
This message is for any OZ builders. My Finishing kit is due to ship from VANS around October 9. Anyone who wants parts shipped out to OZ can have them put in the box if they fit. Contact me off line for order numbers and shipping details. Mick ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Unfortunate Mistake
Date: Sep 17, 2006
On 16 Sep 2006, at 22:46, dmaib(at)mac.com wrote: > I had an accident this afternoon when on of my RV-10 Quick Build > wings slipped off the cradle. The inboard leading edge was dented > and the inboard fuel tank panel was slightly deformed. I am looking > for advice on how to gracefully recover from this (completely > preventable) mistake. I don't think you should try to salvage that tank. If you leave it as is, the stress on the tank inner rib and the wing skin may eventually lead to a fuel tank leak. And, the incorrect profile on the inboard wing leading edge could affect stall characteristics and stall speed. I don't see any way to do a repair short of rebuilding the whole tank. I think you should order parts and plan to build a new tank. The RV Yeller Pages list several companies that will build RV fuel tanks, if you don't want to do that job yourself: http://www.matronics.com/YellerPages/ Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, martin(at)gbonline.com writes: The Custom III series has a much stiffer tred and side casing and holds its shape even with a hard landing. > I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam James > pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked better. > Good luck with your project. > Dick Martin > RV8 N233M ========================= Dick: I can understand the looking better part. But, how much faster and how did you determine that? Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2006
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Unfortunate Mistake
I've seen RV's with dents from bird strikes that weren't affected at all in flight by dents far bigger than that one, so I respectfully disagree with Kevin. I would make a form block out of wood and try to work the dent out as best as you can from the inboard side. If that doesn't work I'd remove the rib try to work it out that way, and make a custom rib or cover plate in the rib. If you're careful about how you remove the dent you will never notice it with paint on the airplane. I have a friend with an RV-8 that had a severe dent in the leading edge right on a rib, just outboard of the fuel tank. Much worse than this one. It was creased right along the rib. He had an old-timer metal man work the dent out, it took him all of 30 minutes to accomplish. I was there and watched him do it, he made a form block out of wood and gently pried it back into shape with a small bottle jack and some blocks of wood inside the wing against the spar (long story short). You cannot tell there was a dent, and there was no body filler used. It was a very creative fix! Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying, F1 under const. On 9/17/06, Kevin Horton wrote: > > On 16 Sep 2006, at 22:46, dmaib(at)mac.com wrote: > > I had an accident this afternoon when on of my RV-10 Quick Build wings > slipped off the cradle. The inboard leading edge was dented and the inboard > fuel tank panel was slightly deformed. I am looking for advice on how to > gracefully recover from this (completely preventable) mistake. > > > I don't think you should try to salvage that tank. If you leave it as is, > the stress on the tank inner rib and the wing skin may eventually lead to a > fuel tank leak. And, the incorrect profile on the inboard wing leading edge > could affect stall characteristics and stall speed. I don't see any way to > do a repair short of rebuilding the whole tank. > > I think you should order parts and plan to build a new tank. The RV > Yeller Pages list several companies that will build RV fuel tanks, if you > don't want to do that job yourself: > > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Unfortunate Mistake
Date: Sep 17, 2006
Bob - Did the guys with the bird strike dents do a full set of stall characteristics and stall speed tests before fixing the dents? David - Where are the inspection covers in the RV-10 tanks? In the rear baffle? It might be possible to remove the root rib, but you'll need access inside the tank to scrape the proseal off or you'll never be able to extract the rib. You'll also need access so you can put some proseal along the rib/skin junction after riveting the rib back in place. I'm not familiar with the RV-10. How is that tank/fuselage attachment fitting attached to the root rib? Can it be riveted to the rib before riveting the rib back in place? Kevin Horton On 17 Sep 2006, at 10:38, Bob J. wrote: > I've seen RV's with dents from bird strikes that weren't affected > at all in flight by dents far bigger than that one, so I > respectfully disagree with Kevin. I would make a form block out of > wood and try to work the dent out as best as you can from the > inboard side. If that doesn't work I'd remove the rib try to work > it out that way, and make a custom rib or cover plate in the rib. > If you're careful about how you remove the dent you will never > notice it with paint on the airplane. > > I have a friend with an RV-8 that had a severe dent in the leading > edge right on a rib, just outboard of the fuel tank. Much worse > than this one. It was creased right along the rib. He had an old- > timer metal man work the dent out, it took him all of 30 minutes to > accomplish. I was there and watched him do it, he made a form > block out of wood and gently pried it back into shape with a small > bottle jack and some blocks of wood inside the wing against the > spar (long story short). You cannot tell there was a dent, and > there was no body filler used. It was a very creative fix! > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying, F1 under const. > > On 9/17/06, Kevin Horton wrote: > On 16 Sep 2006, at 22:46, dmaib(at)mac.com wrote: > >> I had an accident this afternoon when on of my RV-10 Quick Build >> wings slipped off the cradle. The inboard leading edge was dented >> and the inboard fuel tank panel was slightly deformed. I am >> looking for advice on how to gracefully recover from this >> (completely preventable) mistake. > > I don't think you should try to salvage that tank. If you leave it > as is, the stress on the tank inner rib and the wing skin may > eventually lead to a fuel tank leak. And, the incorrect profile on > the inboard wing leading edge could affect stall characteristics > and stall speed. I don't see any way to do a repair short of > rebuilding the whole tank. > > I think you should order parts and plan to build a new tank. The > RV Yeller Pages list several companies that will build RV fuel > tanks, if you don't want to do that job yourself: > > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 17, 2006
From: Steve Eberhart <steve(at)newtech.com>
Subject: Re: Unfortunate Mistake
Find you a body man that is at least 60 years old. He will be able to hammer that out to the point you won't be able to tell were the damage was. It takes a good feel for what the metal is telling him and a good eye. The younger bondo slingers just don't have the touch. Steve Eberhart 60 year old RV-7A builder Bob J. wrote: > I've seen RV's with dents from bird strikes that weren't affected at > all in flight by dents far bigger than that one, so I respectfully > disagree with Kevin. I would make a form block out of wood and try to > work the dent out as best as you can from the inboard side. If that > doesn't work I'd remove the rib try to work it out that way, and make > a custom rib or cover plate in the rib. If you're careful about how > you remove the dent you will never notice it with paint on the airplane. > > I have a friend with an RV-8 that had a severe dent in the leading > edge right on a rib, just outboard of the fuel tank. Much worse than > this one. It was creased right along the rib. He had an old-timer > metal man work the dent out, it took him all of 30 minutes to > accomplish. I was there and watched him do it, he made a form block > out of wood and gently pried it back into shape with a small bottle > jack and some blocks of wood inside the wing against the spar (long > story short). You cannot tell there was a dent, and there was no body > filler used. It was a very creative fix! > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying, F1 under const. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2006
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Eliminating glare in photos.
When I first started taking pictures from my plane I was not aware of the effect of glare on the windshield or other similar surfaces. Ideally you could position everything to still have good lighting on the subject and no sun issues inside the cockpit but it happens. I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Unfortunate Mistake
Date: Sep 18, 2006
Thanks to all for the help, suggestions, and advice. It now appears that this won't be as big a job to repair as I initially feared. I can't imagine building without these forums for information. BTW, my wings are now properly secured to the cradle! ^_^ David Maib RV-10 40559 tailcone (and right wing) On Sep 17, 2006, at 11:03 AM, Steve Eberhart wrote: Find you a body man that is at least 60 years old. He will be able to hammer that out to the point you won't be able to tell were the damage was. It takes a good feel for what the metal is telling him and a good eye. The younger bondo slingers just don't have the touch. Steve Eberhart 60 year old RV-7A builder Bob J. wrote: > I've seen RV's with dents from bird strikes that weren't affected > at all in flight by dents far bigger than that one, so I > respectfully disagree with Kevin. I would make a form block out of > wood and try to work the dent out as best as you can from the > inboard side. If that doesn't work I'd remove the rib try to work > it out that way, and make a custom rib or cover plate in the rib. > If you're careful about how you remove the dent you will never > notice it with paint on the airplane. > > I have a friend with an RV-8 that had a severe dent in the leading > edge right on a rib, just outboard of the fuel tank. Much worse > than this one. It was creased right along the rib. He had an old- > timer metal man work the dent out, it took him all of 30 minutes to > accomplish. I was there and watched him do it, he made a form > block out of wood and gently pried it back into shape with a small > bottle jack and some blocks of wood inside the wing against the > spar (long story short). You cannot tell there was a dent, and > there was no body filler used. It was a very creative fix! > > Regards, > Bob Japundza > RV-6 flying, F1 under const. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2006
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Eliminating glare in photos.
On 6:47:38 2006-09-18 Ron Lee wrote: > I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections > such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. Funny you mention that, someone just posted a link to a photo of the "Mexican border fence" that has a lot of reflections in it, and I briefly debated replying with some advice. I've taken hundreds of photos from cockpits, and there isn't much you can do in a low wing airplane with a bubble canopy. The best possible situation is where the cockpit, all occupants, all occupants' clothing, and all seatbelts and cockpit contents, are black. Black doesn't reflect much in the windsreen. Anything not black will stand out if the sun hits it. Next best is to drape a piece of black felt over everything in the cockpit, but that gets warm and uncomfortable for the pilot after a while. Last, but not least, is to get a deep rubber lens hood, and put it right against the canopy, or very very close to the canopy. That will block any light from hitting the part of the canopy right in front of the lens, hence blocking said reflections. It does have a tendency to introduce vibration to your shot, so plan on a high shutter speed (1/500-1/1000 sec). A polarizer does work, sometimes, to remove reflections. The problem is that it usually only polarizes light coming from one narrow angle range at a time, and with a continuously curving canopy like on the RV's, you can't block it all out. But you can block the worst of it. Better yet, find a friend with a Cardinal for your air-to-air photography. Pull the passenger-side door off, the front passenger seat out, and harness yourself to the back seat supports. Works like a hot damn... no struts in the way, no windows in the way, nothing. And it's a hell of a lot of fun. :) -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: 6a strut bolts
Date: Sep 18, 2006
I thought I would pass this on FWIT. I spronged my nose wheel last thur eve and was concerened about the result so I found two problems actually I dont think were related. I thing no harm done on the sprong, but Ifound that with the spacer washer on the axel, I had too much play on bearings so I took it off which resulted it it being a bit tight, but good and solid. I also found a bit of rotation on the nose strut in the engine mount and when I checked the bolt, I found it not much more that barley tight. I couldnt get a torque wrench on it so I tighted it to estimated "Guttentite". I then checked the mains and found them also pretty loose. You might want to check yours. Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Lonn Benson" <benson(at)mrsl.com>
Subject: Wing skin crack
Date: Sep 18, 2006
Hello everyone, I've been monitoring this list for several years now and have found it very useful while building my -8QB. I have never felt the need to post anything until now. I received word that the owner/builder of an -8A in my local area, (southwest Florida), has found a crack in the top skin of his left wing. The plane has been flown approx. 500 hours and the crack is located just outboard of the wing walk doubler, where the top skin is riveted to the rear spar. Specifically, the crack has started where the top skin overlays the doubler on the rear spar at the first rivet outboard of the doubler and has propagated outboard through the next three rivets. Has anyone else with higher time airframes noticed any skin cracks in this area? Apparently the builder contacted Vans and they were unaware of any problems from other builders and suggested that his skin might have contained flaws in that area. I am still several months away from final assembly and am wondering if I should do anything to avoid this potential problem before I hang the wings. Thanks, Lonn Benson RV-8QB (#81666) Osprey, Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Eliminating glare in photos.
Date: Sep 18, 2006
Ron: Nothing will get rid of 100% but a "Circular Polarizing" filter will remove most of it. http://www.offrench.net/photos/articles/polarizing_filter.php Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net> Subject: RV-List: Eliminating glare in photos. Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2006 07:47:38 -0600 When I first started taking pictures from my plane I was not aware of the effect of glare on the windshield or other similar surfaces. Ideally you could position everything to still have good lighting on the subject and no sun issues inside the cockpit but it happens. I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
Date: Sep 18, 2006
Subject: Re: Unfortunate Mistake
>"make a form block out of wood and try to work the dent out . . ." To help prevent the soft aluminum from stretching when doing body work, never use metal tools for both the hammer and dolly. If using a metal dolly, use a wood or plastic type hammer; likewise, if using a metal hammer, use a plastic or wood tool for a dolly. That will help prevent the aluminum from stretching. A hammer made from Delrin is very useful when working with aluminum. Pete Cowper RV8 #81139 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Olmstead" <rlo110(at)cox.net>
Subject: Flying with an open canopy
Date: Sep 18, 2006
Has anyone ever asked vans if they are developing a slider that can stay open in flight?? How about someone redesigning their slider to withstand open operation?? Sure seems like a logical next step for the vans line of aircraft...... This picture made me think of it... - Ron ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2006
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Flying with an open canopy
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 18, 2006
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wing skin crack
I've seen this happen with holes not being deburred before being dimpled. A slight tear can occur when the dimple is set and then the crack can follow the line of the rivets or take another direction. Also, an incorrect matching angle issue from the rear spar to the skin can cause excess stress. Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Wing skin crack
Date: Sep 18, 2006
> > Has anyone else with higher time airframes noticed any skin cracks > in this > area? Apparently the builder contacted Vans and they were unaware > of any > problems from other builders and suggested that his skin might have > contained flaws in that area. > > I am still several months away from final assembly and am wondering > if I > should do anything to avoid this potential problem before I hang > the wings. I've been a subscriber to the RV-List since 1997, and the Yahoo RV-8 list (and it predecessors) since it was first created. This is the first report I can recall of a crack in any of the wing skins. I think there was something unique about this situation. Either some damage, or a builder error, or some other major event that caused this. I wouldn't make any changes in this area. Trying to add more material to beef up the structure may change the load paths, and put more stress somewhere else. You could easily make more problems than you solve. Build on. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Van's Wheel Fairings
Date: Sep 18, 2006
Barry, I had Vans pants installed and flying first. I fitted Sam James pants and flew them. Inorder to determine the performance, which appeared to be faster, I reinstalled Vans pants and flew them and then removed them and flew the Sam James pants an hour later. The James pants were approx 5 knot faster +/- l knot.. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: <FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com> Sent: Sunday, September 17, 2006 6:54 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's Wheel Fairings > > In a message dated 8/29/06 10:16:43 PM Eastern Daylight Time, > martin(at)gbonline.com writes: > > The Custom III series has a much stiffer tred and side casing and holds > its > shape even with a hard landing. > >> I tried Vans pressure recovery pants first and then went to Sam James >> pressure recovery pants because they went faster and looked better. >> Good luck with your project. >> Dick Martin >> RV8 N233M > ========================= > Dick: > > I can understand the looking better part. But, how much faster and how > did > you determine that? > > Barry > "Chop'd Liver" > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Davis" <rvpilot(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: canopy latch
Date: Sep 18, 2006
RV-8 Builders, I still have some of the RV-8 canopy latches available. For a complete write up & pix, see Sam Buchanan's web site http://home.hiwaay.net/~sbuc/journal/rv8-latch.html All info there is still current except for the E mail address new address is below. Bill William Davis rvpilot(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Who has the highest time on their RV?
From: "gbrasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Sep 18, 2006
What about Mike Seager? -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Finishing #90623 Tucson, Arizona Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62449#62449 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: Eliminating glare in photos.
Date: Sep 19, 2006
Hey All- This thread got me to thinking- (scarry, huh?) Does anyone know of an anti-reflective coating that could be applied to the canopy? Being able to get rid of random reflections would not only be really cool for photography, but also for simple daily aviation... Especially at night! >I am curious if anyone has found a way to eliminate reflections >such as dark/black towels/cloth over everything. > >Ron Lee glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Superior Engine Discount
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: "Snow, Daniel A." <Daniel.Snow(at)wancdf.com>
Superior is discounting its XP engines by $500 and providing free shipping in the US for orders placed before the end of the month. I haven't read any threads recently about their engines, and haven't read anything at all about their new XP-0320. I've been planning all along to purchase an Aerosport engine, but this deal is tempting. Without starting a LONG discussion of engines, does anyone want to give me some reasons for not going with this engine? Thanks, Daniel Snow RV-9A, Canopy Pell City, Alabama ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Flying with an open canopy
Here's one. Maybe someone knows the pilot and can ask him about it.... Jeff Point RV-6 flying RV-8 preview plans Milwaukee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)AOL.COM
Date: Sep 19, 2006
Subject: Re: EGT Probe position
In a message dated 9/19/06 10:55:55 AM Eastern Daylight Time, bo124rs(at)hotmail.com writes: > The distance brings the other three probes right at the intersection points > of the joints. If they are within say, two inches of #1 but 2,3 & 4 are the > same distance surely I won't have a noticable difference in actual EGT > between #1 and the other 3. Care to comment?? > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 ========================== Dana: The EGT is only a reference item. So as long as you keep the reference the same on all probes you will do OK. What is meant by reference is that when comparing to other peoples systems the readings will vary. Just try to keep the probe location as uniform as posable on your system. Yes, 1 & 2" differences will be noticed. Also difference will be noted between cylinders especially on Lycoming engines that are carboratored since the spider distribution system is extremely poor. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Wing skin crack
It can also happen when the builder dimples directly on the pre-punched #42 size hole. If the hole is below #40 size, small micro cracks can be formed during the dimpling process. The same thing happens when dimpling #19 holes for #8 machine screws. When dimpling for a #8 screw, open the hole up to a #17 size drill. Ask me how I know this! :-( Charlie Kuss > >I've seen this happen with holes not being deburred >before being dimpled. A slight tear can occur when the >dimple is set and then the crack can follow the line >of the rivets or take another direction. Also, an >incorrect matching angle issue from the rear spar to >the skin can cause excess stress. > > > Darrell Reiley > RV7A "Reiley Rocket" > N622DR Reserved > N469RV Reserved > > CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com > > >__________________________________________________ > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Flying with an open canopy
>From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> Where did you get that picture? I took that picture in about 1971 of Van in his RV-3 flying along side of my VW powered Chris Tena Minicope. I was inspired to build a RV when Van would come by me and do loops around me. I knew that someday I would build an RV. Well it took till 1987 for me to start and 1989 to make the first flight but I am still flying my RV-6 18 years later. I see people with high times but I only have about 1200 hours on mine in 18 years. Jerry >Date: 2006/09/19 Tue AM 10:07:22 CDT >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy >Here's one. Maybe someone knows the pilot and can ask him about it.... > >Jeff Point >RV-6 flying >RV-8 preview plans >Milwaukee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: "Larry E. James" <larry(at)ncproto.com>
Subject: xPanel feedback
Is there any more feedback on xPanel ?? Is this a viable product to design an instrument panel in ?? Larry E. James Bellevue, WA Super Decathlon HR2 - under construction - fuselage ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: Jim Peoples <jp_rv2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wing skin crack
Section 5E of the -7 manual contains a caution about the potential for cracks to develop from pre-punched holes that are not match drilled... drilling removes shear marks left by the punch process. "... removing the shear marks is important because if left alone, the skin can crack around the hole due to the stretching caused by the dimple dies. This cracking may not be apparent for several years after many hours of vibrations and flight cycles." jp --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 19, 2006
From: blue6(at)centurytel.net
Subject: Flying with an open canopy
Hey Vincent John took me up in his 4 with the open cockpit once. What a blast and windy. He was always having fun doing things like that. What a great guy. Dwain ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Transponder
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net>
Date: Sep 19, 2006
What is a strobe input/output for a transponder/encoder? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62693#62693 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Perkinson" <bobperk(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Flying with an open canopy
Date: Sep 20, 2006
FAA Registry N-Number Inquiry Results N17RV is Assigned Aircraft Description Serial Number 173 Type Registration Corporation Manufacturer Name VANGRUNSVEN Certificate Issue Date 01/07/2000 Model RV-3 Status Valid Type Aircraft Fixed Wing Single-Engine Type Engine Reciprocating Pending Number Change None Dealer No Date Change Authorized None Mode S Code 50214137 MFR Year 1971 Fractional Owner NO Registered Owner Name EAA AVIATION FOUNDATION INC Street PO BOX 3065 City OSHKOSH State WISCONSIN Zip Code 54903-3065 County WINNEBAGO Country UNITED STATES Looks like this airplane is in the EAA museum now. Bob Perkinson -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Re: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy >From: Jeff Point <jpoint(at)mindspring.com> Where did you get that picture? I took that picture in about 1971 of Van in his RV-3 flying along side of my VW powered Chris Tena Minicope. I was inspired to build a RV when Van would come by me and do loops around me. I knew that someday I would build an RV. Well it took till 1987 for me to start and 1989 to make the first flight but I am still flying my RV-6 18 years later. I see people with high times but I only have about 1200 hours on mine in 18 years. Jerry >Date: 2006/09/19 Tue AM 10:07:22 CDT >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Flying with an open canopy >Here's one. Maybe someone knows the pilot and can ask him about it.... > >Jeff Point >RV-6 flying >RV-8 preview plans >Milwaukee ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2006
From: Charles Reiche <charlieray(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder
Apply a ground to this pin to have the encoder output on all the time. This is required to be on all the time with every modern transponder. Charles ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 1:46 AM Subject: RV-List: Transponder > > What is a strobe input/output for a transponder/encoder? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62693#62693 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: xPanel feedback
I have been using xPanel and I like it. In my opinion it is much better than the online versions since you can easily add instruments that it does not have in the data base. Also you get side and top views. It is a good product for laying out panel design concepts. However, there is no measuring tool or easy way to move instruments into an exact location. You would need to use some other tool to actually cut the panel. They do have a free web based product. You can try XPanel 5000 in trial mode to see if you like it. XPanel software is here <http://www.xpanelsoftware.com/Index.htm> Larry Rosen RV-10 #356 N205EN (reserved) Larry E. James wrote: > Is there any more feedback on xPanel ?? Is this a viable product to > design an instrument panel in ?? > > Larry E. James > Bellevue, WA > Super Decathlon > HR2 - under construction - fuselage > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Superior Engine Discount
Date: Sep 20, 2006
I spoke to Superior at the RENO air races this weekend and was surprised to find that they reduced their price several thousand dollars AND have a special this month of $500 off and free shipping if delivered before 12-31-06. I Originally planned on a TMX but I will have to look at all the options now. John Furey RV7 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Switched power
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net>
Date: Sep 20, 2006
For the encoder I plan on using a seperate fuse to the POWER IN pin (8) supplied from the a/c power to reduce warm up time and then use pin (14) SWITCHED POWER IN as indicated by the schematic for the switched power back to the transponder. Now for the question. The transponder schematic shows two pins together (8,20) used for SWITCHED POWER OUT. Do both of these get wired to the switched pin number 14 or bacause I'm powering the encoder pin 8 with its own power is one of these pins left empty? Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62786#62786 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Transponder
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net>
Date: Sep 20, 2006
The transponder schematic shows a suppression OUT pin 1and a EXT. DME suppression IN pin 6. Because I do not have a DME I understand that both of these pins would be empty. Would this be what the encoder schematic is showing as the strobe input? If so then this pin would not be used and would be pigtailed to the fround pin. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62788#62788 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2006
From: Charles Reiche <charlieray(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Transponder
Dennis, What Transponder and what encoder are you using? Supression I/O is only used for other L band devices like active traffic (tcas) and DME.... They all work around 1030-1090 MHZ and the suppression lines are only used so only one device is active for a split second. Strobe input at the encoder should be tied to ground, I run my gray code wires A1, A2, A4, B1...etc and power and ground to the encoder. some transponders supply switched power out to simplify the wiring to the encoder. If your transponder has switched power out, thats what I would use to power the encoder. It does not need its own circuit breaker in general. I would supply ground to the endcoder by splitting the ground to the transponder (at the transponder rack) and sending one leg to the encoder. Then I would take that ground and split it into two at the encoder, one hooked to the ground pin and the other hooked to the strobe pin. Like I said before, most all transponders want to see the Gray Code (altitude) input at all times, and the strobe pin being tied to ground means that the encoder will always be sending out gray code info. If Im too confusing or you need more info just let me know. Charlie your avionics guru. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:40 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Transponder > > The transponder schematic shows a suppression OUT pin 1and a EXT. DME > suppression IN pin 6. Because I do not have a DME I understand that both > of these pins would be empty. Would this be what the encoder schematic is > showing as the strobe input? If so then this pin would not be used and > would be pigtailed to the fround pin. > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62788#62788 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 20, 2006
From: Charles Reiche <charlieray(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Switched power
Dennis, If you are powering your encoder right from a fuse from the bus (to reduce warm up time) the switched power pin out of the transponder will be left empty. 8 and 14 are tied together on multi voltage encoders.... the old convention was 28 volts on pin 8 and 14 on pin 14.... Run your fused encoder power to pin 14 and leave pin 8 empty, run no other power wires from the transponder swithced power. I just read this message after i sent the previous. I still want to know exactly shich encoder and transponder you are using. I could draw you up a schematic and fax it to you. Let me know. Charlie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:32 PM Subject: RV-List: Switched power > > For the encoder I plan on using a seperate fuse to the POWER IN pin (8) > supplied from the a/c power to reduce warm up time and then use pin (14) > SWITCHED POWER IN as indicated by the schematic for the switched power > back to the transponder. Now for the question. The transponder schematic > shows two pins together (8,20) used for SWITCHED POWER OUT. Do both of > these get wired to the switched pin number 14 or bacause I'm powering the > encoder pin 8 with its own power is one of these pins left empty? > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62786#62786 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Approach FastStack
From: "dmaib(at)mac.com" <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Date: Sep 20, 2006
Looking for information from anybody who has used Approach FastStack for avionics and panel wiring. David Maib RV-10 40559 Tailcone -------- David Maib Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62924#62924 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2006
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Wing cracks
Several years ago Gary Hansen had a crack propagate along the inboard top wing skin along his rear spar. By the time he discovered the problem it had propagated along several aft spar to skin rivets (paint hid some of the problem for a while). Only solution was to remove the wing and replace the entire inboard skin. This is not an easy or fun job on the RV-6A as the wing cannot be removed without removing the main gear mounts, you RV-7/8/9 guys have it sooooo easy. I think the problem is more common than we hear about, guys who have cracks in benign areas just stop drill them and don't give it a second thought! Unfortunately Gary and his RV are no longer with us so I can't ask him what he believed caused the problem. Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Working on the last of the wiring. __________________________Original Message_______________________________ Subject: Re: RV-List: Wing skin crack ...........This is the first report I can recall of a crack in any of the wing skins. I think there was something unique about this situation.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2006
From: djones(at)northboone.net
Subject: Re: Switched power
Charles The transponder is the Terra 250D and the encoder is the Terra 3000. Dennis Quoting Charles Reiche : > > Dennis, > > If you are powering your encoder right from a fuse from the bus (to > reduce warm up time) the switched power pin out of the transponder > will be left empty. 8 and 14 are tied together on multi voltage > encoders.... the old convention was 28 volts on pin 8 and 14 on pin > 14.... > > Run your fused encoder power to pin 14 and leave pin 8 empty, run no > other power wires from the transponder swithced power. > > I just read this message after i sent the previous. I still want to > know exactly shich encoder and transponder you are using. I could > draw you up a schematic and fax it to you. > Let me know. > > Charlie > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:32 PM > Subject: RV-List: Switched power > > >> >> For the encoder I plan on using a seperate fuse to the POWER IN pin >> (8) supplied from the a/c power to reduce warm up time and then use >> pin (14) SWITCHED POWER IN as indicated by the schematic for the >> switched power back to the transponder. Now for the question. The >> transponder schematic shows two pins together (8,20) used for >> SWITCHED POWER OUT. Do both of these get wired to the switched pin >> number 14 or bacause I'm powering the encoder pin 8 with its own >> power is one of these pins left empty? >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62786#62786 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2006
From: Jim Peoples <jp_rv2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Wing skin crack
Search the archives on 'match drill' and you will find there have been several lengthy discussions about this (March '04 and April '02, etc.)... in my mind there is a connection, in the mind of others there may not be. I will use my judgement, you will use yours... Perhaps this is why i am committed to building my own RV rather than buying one from somebody else. jp --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2006
Subject: RV Kit Wanted
Hello RV Thread, anyone know of a RV 4 thru 9 kit that might be for sale? Less completed the better and only in the lower 48. With or without engine. Please respond off thread, Thanks, Bill Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Wing skin crack
Date: Sep 21, 2006
I've matched drilled and deburred and dimpled and I still don't see a smoothness around the hole. I often see little nibbles or some such thing. Not cracks, but it does make me wonder if I'm doing things correctly. Should be smooth, should it not? John Jessen #40328 _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Peoples Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:20 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing skin crack Search the archives on 'match drill' and you will find there have been several lengthy discussions about this (March '04 and April '02, etc.)... in my mind there is a connection, in the mind of others there may not be. I will use my judgement, you will use yours... Perhaps this is why i am committed to building my own RV rather than buying one from somebody else. jp ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Dwyer" <steve(at)cleanbrite.com>
Subject: Re: RV Kit Wanted
Date: Sep 21, 2006
Bill, We have a RV-6 tail and wing kit available with very little completed. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: RV-List: RV Kit Wanted Hello RV Thread, anyone know of a RV 4 thru 9 kit that might be for sale? Less completed the better and only in the lower 48. With or without engine. Please respond off thread, Thanks, Bill Phillips ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: RV Kit Wanted
Date: Sep 21, 2006
I have a RV-7 empennage kit, as well, with very little completed. I'm sure there are lots out there. I switched to a -10. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Dwyer Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:10 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: RV Kit Wanted Bill, We have a RV-6 tail and wing kit available with very little completed. Steve ----- Original Message ----- From: JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 11:38 AM Subject: RV-List: RV Kit Wanted Hello RV Thread, anyone know of a RV 4 thru 9 kit that might be for sale? Less completed the better and only in the lower 48. With or without engine. Please respond off thread, Thanks, Bill Phillips com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2006
From: Scott Kuebler <scottkuebler(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV Kit Wanted
Bill, See my message that I posted a few weeks ago, below: RV-6 / 6a kit for sale. Empennage: Complete except for fiberglass tips. Includes electric elevator trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Marhyde primer. Wings & Phlogiston Spar: Main wings are complete, bottom skins ready for final riveting. Both tanks are complete and sealed. Flaps and ailerons complete, but not installed. Includes electric aileron trim kit. All parts are alodined and primed with Deft epoxy primer (Mil-P-23377G). Both kits are the pre-punched versions purchased in 1997 & 1998 by myself. Construction is excellent. Preview plans and Orndorff videos are included for both kits. Price: $3900 If all items were purchased separately the price would be more than $6500 for unassembled kits. Scott Kuebler Buffalo , NY 716-695-1987 home 716-510-0318 cell scottkuebler(at)yahoo.com JAPhillipsGA(at)aol.com wrote: Hello RV Thread, anyone know of a RV 4 thru 9 kit that might be for sale? Less completed the better and only in the lower 48. With or without engine. Please respond off thread, Thanks, Bill Phillips --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: EGT Span
Date: Sep 21, 2006
I have my EIS system set to 150 Max EGT Span. Sometimes at high power settings the warning light comes on indicating a span of greater than 150 F. When I look at the actual EGTs the span is between #1 and #4 cylinders and is sometimes as great as 170. A reduction in power extinguishes the warning light. Shortly there after, all EGTs are closer together and run somewhere between 50 25 of each other. At cruise and leaned out sometimes they are within 15 of each other. Is it normal for a 0-360 carburated engine to have more than 150 Span at high power settings? I have tightened the rubber intake connectors and changed plugs. Is it possible to have a sticking valve? Should I do a compression check? If this is normal, what is the highest span recommended? Thanks for any input you may have. Steve Glasgow-Cappy N123SG RV-8 Cappy's Toy 360 Hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Man I hate to do this... (Marhyde update)
Date: Sep 21, 2006
Mark, I used two pictures off your web site and stuck them into a page on mine. Let me know if you object and I'll take them out. My best, John Jessen http://www.soundingsresearch.com/RV-10/Thoughts/Thoughts.htm _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, September 08, 2006 6:41 AM Subject: RV-List: Man I hate to do this... (Marhyde update) Howdy Listers- Just to add fuel to the Primer Wars, please take a look here if you are interested in using self-etching primers on your project: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry <http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4863> &log_id=4863 Please reply OFF-LIST if any ?s... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark Phillips - RV-6A "Mojo" 350 hrs since January, '04 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 21, 2006
From: djones(at)northboone.net
Subject: Re: Transponder
Charles On the transponder the schematic shows two remote ground pins. What would they be used for? Dennis Quoting Charles Reiche : > > Dennis, > > > What Transponder and what encoder are you using? Supression I/O is > only used for other L band devices like active traffic (tcas) and > DME.... They all work around 1030-1090 MHZ and the suppression lines > are only used so only one device is active for a split second. > > Strobe input at the encoder should be tied to ground, I run my gray > code wires A1, A2, A4, B1...etc and power and ground to the encoder. > some transponders supply switched power out to simplify the wiring to > the encoder. If your transponder has switched power out, thats what > I would use to power the encoder. It does not need its own circuit > breaker in general. I would supply ground to the endcoder by > splitting the ground to the transponder (at the transponder rack) and > sending one leg to the encoder. Then I would take that ground and > split it into two at the encoder, one hooked to the ground pin and > the other hooked to the strobe pin. Like I said before, most all > transponders want to see the Gray Code (altitude) input at all times, > and the strobe pin being tied to ground means that the encoder will > always be sending out gray code info. > > If Im too confusing or you need more info just let me know. > > Charlie > your avionics guru. > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net> > To: > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2006 12:40 PM > Subject: RV-List: Re: Transponder > > >> >> The transponder schematic shows a suppression OUT pin 1and a EXT. >> DME suppression IN pin 6. Because I do not have a DME I understand >> that both of these pins would be empty. Would this be what the >> encoder schematic is showing as the strobe input? If so then this >> pin would not be used and would be pigtailed to the fround pin. >> >> >> >> >> Read this topic online here: >> >> http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=62788#62788 >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: EGT Span
Date: Sep 21, 2006
Steve, Carbureted Lycomings have lousy fuel/air distribution and the EGTs are gonna be all over the place. I've found that pulling off about a tenth of an inch of manifold pressure helps even out the fuel distribution and brings the EGTs closer together on our O-320. The slightly deflected throttle causes turbulence and better mixing. You can experiment with a touch of carb heat too which has a similar effect. If you use carb heat, you may need to re-lean a little to account for the extra richness. All that said, the EGT spread doesn't mean too much. Absolute EGT values aren't very important and could be off because of probe errors anyway. What you really want to watch for is changes in temperatures from the normal way it runs that might tell you something has happened. A rise in EGT in one cylinder might mean a fouled plug or a bad valve. A rise in all of them could be a bad mag. If your 170 degree spread is normal for your engine, you could always set the alarm for 180 and quit worrying or just keep punching the acknowledge button when the alarm goes off. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Glasgow Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: RV-List: EGT Span I have my EIS system set to 150 Max EGT Span. Sometimes at high power settings the warning light comes on indicating a span of greater than 150 F. When I look at the actual EGTs the span is between #1 and #4 cylinders and is sometimes as great as 170. A reduction in power extinguishes the warning light. Shortly there after, all EGTs are closer together and run somewhere between 50 25 of each other. At cruise and leaned out sometimes they are within 15 of each other. Is it normal for a 0-360 carburated engine to have more than 150 Span at high power settings? I have tightened the rubber intake connectors and changed plugs. Is it possible to have a sticking valve? Should I do a compression check? If this is normal, what is the highest span recommended? Thanks for any input you may have. Steve Glasgow-Cappy N123SG RV-8 Cappy's Toy 360 Hours ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Pitot Hunt
Date: Sep 21, 2006
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
I'm looking for a 12v heated pitot that fits on the pointy-nose of an airplane....not a right angle type. Just a straight bayonet that mounts in the nose. I know they make 'em because I have one that's only about 3 years old (but now inoperable for reasons I'll not go into). I checked AS&S, Wicks and the usual suspects, but they don't seem to have what I'm looking for--all right angle jobs. Any leads or ideas? Chuck Jensen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Pitot Hunt
Date: Sep 21, 2006
Try Ebay. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Jensen Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:45 PM Subject: RV-List: Pitot Hunt I'm looking for a 12v heated pitot that fits on the pointy-nose of an airplane....not a right angle type. Just a straight bayonet that mounts in the nose. I know they make 'em because I have one that's only about 3 years old (but now inoperable for reasons I'll not go into). I checked AS&S, Wicks and the usual suspects, but they don't seem to have what I'm looking for--all right angle jobs. Any leads or ideas? Chuck Jensen ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Becki" <becki@fly-gbi.com>
Subject: RV-8A For Sale
Date: Sep 21, 2006
A friend has asked us to sell his RV-8A for him. It was built in our shop and is a beautiful plane. Here's a link to more information and photos: www.fly-gbi.com/RV-8Aforsale.htm Please give us a call if you are interested. Thanks! Becki Orndorff (940) 648-0841 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 21, 2006
Subject: Re: Man I hate to do this... (Marhyde update)
No problem- we're here to share! Just hope nobody chokes on seeing my mugly ug- you DID happen to grab the "trick foto". Didja notice the reflection on the belly? (the one on the AIRPLANE, not under the bibs!) 8-) Another lister with long experience in the auto coatings business chimed in off-list that he really likes one I didn't test- DuPont 4115s, which comes in gray and green and is available at from any automotive paint shop that carries DuPont Auto Refinish products- he says he's familiar with most of these products and this is his favorite self-etch... (thanks, Bill!) >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark archive for the DuPont info, and dare I add "primer"? ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Subject: Horizpntal Pitot Hunt
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Chuck, I had on on my Cessna 195. Try that! Jim Nelson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Subject: Re: Wing skin crack
John, Like you, I have looked closely at the holes after dimpling, and see a roughness -- even though the holes were deburred before dimpling. For sure, a smaller hole would be more likely to have stress cracks after dimpling than a bigger hole, so no. 40 is the right drill to use, not 41 as some have done, or no drill at all. Maybe the best thing to do is to deburr the hole AFTER dimpling. But many airplanes have been built without doing this and none (that I know of) have fallen out of the sky due to skin cracks. Aluminum does fatigue and eventually all of the RV's will start cracking! Maybe in 50,000 hours? Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 9/21/2006 11:45:52 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, jjessen(at)rcn.com writes: I've matched drilled and deburred and dimpled and I still don't see a smoothness around the hole. I often see little nibbles or some such thing. Not cracks, but it does make me wonder if I'm doing things correctly. Should be smooth, should it not? John Jessen #40328 ____________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Peoples Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 7:20 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Wing skin crack Search the archives on 'match drill' and you will find there have been several lengthy discussions about this (March '04 and April '02, etc.)... in my mind there is a connection, in the mind of others there may not be. I will use my judgement, you will use yours... Perhaps this is why i am committed to building my own RV rather than buying one from somebody else. jp com/Navigator?RV-List (http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List) (http://www.matronics.com/contribution) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Reiff Engine preheater
Date: Sep 22, 2006
List-Group, I have been trying to contact the Reiff people via Email and phone with no success? Are they still in business?? I need to install a preheater at my annual next month. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Pitot Hunt
From: "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net>
Date: Sep 22, 2006
You might try a 28V twin cessna pitot and see if 12v at 6 amps will give enough heat. -------- Milt N395V F1 Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63239#63239 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 22, 2006
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Young Eagles Fuel
I'll talk to my pilots about the gas... We have an open house at APV on the first Saturday, Oct. 7th and something of a race. Time vs distance vs fuel burn estimates. If your free, drop by and enjoy a burger on us. No "official" meeting on the 7th. JACK ----- Original Message ----- From: randy banks To: AAYoungEagles Jack Starn Cc: AATowerBoss Tom Gummo Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 5:53 AM Subject: Young Eagles Fuel Dear Jack, We need to take care of the fuel for your Young Eagles pilots that flew at our Airshow. Unless you have a better idea, please give me the gallons of fuel needed for each pilot, and their names and addresses so that we may mail them a check. We would like to visit at your next EAA/Pilots Association meeting if you might set that up. Stay well Jack, and thank you very much for all of your efforts! r Randy Banks home (760) 948 9594 cell (909) 964 3021 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ernie & Margo" <ekells(at)sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Reiff Engine preheater
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Tom: Within the last month I have ordered the Reiff engine preheater from Van's catalogue (Page 16). It is fully installed and works perfectly. I set it up so that I can plug it in through my oil door. Perhaps you can deal with Vans or contact me off-line. Reiff may not sell direct. Don't know but I certainly had no reason to. I am very happy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom & Cathy Ervin List-Group, I have been trying to contact the Reiff people via Email and phone with no success? Are they still in business?? I need to install a preheater at my annual next month. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Kraus" <n223rv(at)wolflakeairport.net>
Subject: Reiff Engine preheater
Date: Sep 22, 2006
Reiff is still in business, I just purchased a heater from them for my RV-10. Purchased it directly. Try calling them, many small companies are not good at e-mail for some reason.... 262-968-2342 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ernie & Margo Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Reiff Engine preheater Tom: Within the last month I have ordered the Reiff engine preheater from Van's catalogue (Page 16). It is fully installed and works perfectly. I set it up so that I can plug it in through my oil door. Perhaps you can deal with Vans or contact me off-line. Reiff may not sell direct. Don't know but I certainly had no reason to. I am very happy. ----- Original Message ----- From: Tom <mailto:tcervin(at)valkyrie.net> & Cathy Ervin List-Group, I have been trying to contact the Reiff people via Email and phone with no success? Are they still in business?? I need to install a preheater at my annual next month. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kelly Patterson" <kbob(at)cox.net>
Subject: RE: EGT Span
Date: Sep 22, 2006
My only experience with this issue was the result of carb ice. I was cruising at 17K, WOT and checking on my engine EGT's. The carb O-320 is not making much HP at this elevation, and DA of approx. 19-20K. The EGT's began to spread and this really puzzled me. Messing with the mixture did nothing. Remembering something I read on this list got me to pull the carb heat and see what happens. After a few seconds the EGT's were even again and I removed the carb heat. Didn't happen again, so I chocked it up to experience. Kelly Patterson RV-6A N716K Chandler, AZ O-320 carb 9.2:1 CR & Emag 108 hrs of good times From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net> Subject: RE: RV-List: EGT Span Steve, Carbureted Lycomings have lousy fuel/air distribution and the EGTs are gonna be all over the place. I've found that pulling off about a tenth of an inch of manifold pressure helps even out the fuel distribution and brings the EGTs closer together on our O-320. The slightly deflected throttle causes turbulence and better mixing. You can experiment with a touch of carb heat too which has a similar effect. If you use carb heat, you may need to re-lean a little to account for the extra richness. All that said, the EGT spread doesn't mean too much. Absolute EGT values aren't very important and could be off because of probe errors anyway. What you really want to watch for is changes in temperatures from the normal way it runs that might tell you something has happened. A rise in EGT in one cylinder might mean a fouled plug or a bad valve. A rise in all of them could be a bad mag. If your 170 degree spread is normal for your engine, you could always set the alarm for 180 and quit worrying or just keep punching the acknowledge button when the alarm goes off. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Glasgow Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:32 PM Subject: RV-List: EGT Span I have my EIS system set to 150 Max EGT Span. Sometimes at high power settings the warning light comes on indicating a span of greater than 150 F. When I look at the actual EGTs the span is between #1 and #4 cylinders and is sometimes as great as 170. A reduction in power extinguishes the warning light. Shortly there after, all EGTs are closer together and run somewhere between 50 25 of each other. At cruise and leaned out sometimes they are within 15 of each other. Is it normal for a 0-360 carburated engine to have more than 150 Span at high power settings? I have tightened the rubber intake connectors and changed plugs. Is it possible to have a sticking valve? Should I do a compression check? If this is normal, what is the highest span recommended? Thanks for any input you may have. Steve Glasgow-Cappy N123SG RV-8 Cappy's Toy 360 Hours ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clive Whittfield" <cazw(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Windscreen frame
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Listers Having trouble matching the screen frame to the canopy (slider) frame. After careful measuring and ensuring correct positioning and alignment of mounting points etc it would appear that my screen frame is distorted. I am not talking about a slight bend here, it appears as though one side of the frame has been cut too long before the mounting plate was welded in place. The result is that one side sits about 0.5 inch higher than the other. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a fix for this, or is it something I will just have to work around? All suggestions gratefully received. Clive Whittfield New Zealand RV6 - fuselage well on the way ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Windscreen frame
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Cliff, The slider frame will have a tube on each side in the lower front to accept your track wheels. On my frame each side was quite a bit longer than needed and can be shortened. A 1/2 inch should be no problem to accomplish but I wouldn't do this until all the other fitting points seem to be coming into spec. I trimmed these tubes a little at a time until the overall fit came right in. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ----- Original Message ----- From: Clive Whittfield To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 5:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Windscreen frame Listers Having trouble matching the screen frame to the canopy (slider) frame. After careful measuring and ensuring correct positioning and alignment of mounting points etc it would appear that my screen frame is distorted. I am not talking about a slight bend here, it appears as though one side of the frame has been cut too long before the mounting plate was welded in place. The result is that one side sits about 0.5 inch higher than the other. Has anyone else had this problem? Is there a fix for this, or is it something I will just have to work around? All suggestions gratefully received. Clive Whittfield New Zealand RV6 - fuselage well on the way ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Clive Whittfield" <cazw(at)ihug.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Windscreen frame
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Thanks Tom. Yes I understand the need to adjust the height of the canopy frame to suit, and using spacers under the canopy where needed etc. It just appears that the screen frame (roll bar) is the culprit here. I have sat it upright on a dead flat bench and measured the heights at various points. When comparing one side to the other, this is where that 0.5 inch difference shows up. Even my mark one eyeball tells me it looks like the frame has been 'pushed to one side'. The support bar mount is still centred tho' so I'm pretty sure any attempts to simply heat and bend would cause other problems. This looks like it would need cutting, reshaping and welding. Do all RV6 roll bars have this degree of variation in their shape, or am I worrying about nothing and should I simply ignore and adjust/ shim canopy to suit? Clive in NZ Subject: Re: Windscreen frame From: Tom & Cathy Ervin (tcervin(at)valkyrie.net) Date: Sat Sep 23 - 6:54 AM Cliff, The slider frame will have a tube on each side in the lower front to accept your track wheels. On my frame each side was quite a bit longer than needed and can be shortened. A 1/2 inch should be no problem to accomplish but I wouldn't do this until all the other fitting points seem to be coming into spec. I trimmed these tubes a little at a time until the overall fit came right in. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2006
From: Derek Bohn <ctnyfl(at)yahoo.com>
I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It is my first time building, and am leaning towards the fast build versions. In looking at the specifications on the company websites it seems the RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. So my question basically is, why does anyone choose the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has very nice performance, especially considering the lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the RV. Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable information about these. Financial stability and customer service factors seem to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to assess. Thanks Derek (no flames intended) >From the company websites: RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT Fast Build Cost $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 (no slow build avail.) V Cruise @ 8000ft. 205mph 220mph 210mph (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop Payload(full fuel) 448lb 360lb 596lb Range @ 8000ft. 755sm 1450sm 1009sm Solo ROC 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm Solo TO/Landing Roll 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited Baggage Capacity 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. ft. Cabin Width"/ Height" 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2006
From: Derek Bohn <ctnyfl(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It is my first time building, and am leaning towards the fast build versions. In looking at the specifications on the company websites it seems the RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. So my question basically is, why does anyone choose the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has very nice performance, especially considering the lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the RV. Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable information about these. Financial stability and customer service factors seem to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to assess. Thanks Derek (no flames intended) >From the company websites: RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT Fast Build Cost $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 (no slow build avail.) V Cruise @ 8000ft. 205mph 220mph 210mph (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop Payload(full fuel) 448lb 360lb 596lb Range @ 8000ft. 755sm 1450sm 1009sm Solo ROC 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm Solo TO/Landing Roll 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited Baggage Capacity 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu.ft. Cabin Width"/ Height" 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Choice
Date: Sep 23, 2006
I went through the same process and came up with the same candidates back in 1991. The glass birds looked sexy and fast, but just would not provide me with an aircraft that would do what I wanted to do. The RV did provided what I was looking for and at a lower cost. The first thing that you must decide on before deciding on an aircraft - is what type of flying do you want to do. I wanted to be able to comfortable get into the occasional short grass strip. I wanted an aircraft that had a reasonably slow stall speed in cause I ever had to put it down in a field engine-out. I wanted an aircraft that had a reasonable top speed and range for cross country. At my age 3 1/2 hours is about all I want to spend in the air before a break. I think people choose the glass birds because they meet the type of flying they wish to do. Also so folks feel more comfortable working with composites than they do metal. Both come in retractable gear versions which appeals to some folks. But, basically I think people choose aircraft which pleases them and their pocket book }:>). FWIW Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Bohn" <ctnyfl(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 6:04 PM > > I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It > is my first time building, and am leaning towards the > fast build versions. In looking at the specifications > on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have > similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The > Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher > fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go > more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > > So my question basically is, why does anyone choose > the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and > TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has > very nice performance, especially considering the > lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the > RV. > > Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity > is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable > information about these. > Financial stability and customer service factors seem > to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to > assess. > > Thanks > Derek > (no flames intended) > > >>From the company websites: > > RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT > > Fast Build Cost > $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 > (no slow build avail.) > > > V Cruise @ 8000ft. > 205mph 220mph 210mph > (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop > > > Payload(full fuel) > 448lb 360lb 596lb > > > Range @ 8000ft. > 755sm 1450sm 1009sm > > > Solo ROC > 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm > > > Solo TO/Landing Roll > 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited > > > Baggage Capacity > 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. > ft. > > > Cabin Width"/ Height" > 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height > > > __________________________________________________ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
Date: Sep 23, 2006
On 23 Sep 2006, at 18:09, Derek Bohn wrote: > > I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It > is my first time building, and am leaning towards the > fast build versions. In looking at the specifications > on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have > similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The > Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher > fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go > more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > > So my question basically is, why does anyone choose > the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and > TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has > very nice performance, especially considering the > lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the > RV. > > Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity > is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable > information about these. > Financial stability and customer service factors seem > to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to > assess. 1. Look into the implications of the building material for each of the aircraft and think about what type of construction you want. Composite construction implies many hundreds of hours sanding and filling. Some people are prone to developing allergies to some resins. 2. Visit with some local builders to learn more about how each type of aircraft is built. The more local builders you can find, the better, as they will be a useful resource when you have questions, or need some assistance. 3. Go for a flight in each of the candidate aircraft so you can decide whether you like the performance and handling. 4. Don't be surprised if everyone on the RV-List tells you to build an RV. We're not exactly unbiased. Why do some people choose the Lancair or Glasair? Some people are attracted to the more curvy designs that composite construction allows. Some people put a higher importance on cruise speed than they do on the total performance package (i.e. stall speed, take off and landing distances, climb performance, cruise performance). Some people want to fly something unique, and RVs are becoming the new Cessna - i.e. every airport seems to have a bunch of them. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2006
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: RV7A Wing attaching tips?
I am ready to attach the wings for the last time. I have one in place with the temp bolts holding it in place. I want to put the close tolerance bolts in tommarow. Can someone give me the tips that I need to know? It looks like I will have to start with the bottom outboard 1/4 bolt I know that I will have to start the nut as soon as I can before tapping the bolt all the way in. I have the bolts in the freezer. I read that I should not torque the bolts untill they are at room temp.. Am I going to be able to get on the nuts to torque them once all the nuts are on? -- My new email address: bobbyhester(at)charter.net Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A N857BH SB wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Subject: Re: RV7A Wing attaching tips?
Bobby, Bend the joggle in the fuel lines and put them in at the same time. Its almost impossible to get an acceptable job with the gear brackets in place. Don't put the bolts in the freezer if humidity will cause water droplets on them. I didn't use the freezer at all, so this is new to me with respect to the wing. Let us know if it works. Get the plans out and put washers only where it calls for them. As I recall all the wing bolts all go in from the rear, but the washers are on the back at the bottom. Put the big bolts (7/16 inch) in first. If you have your temporary bolts in now leave one in until you put your other close tolerance bolt in. I'm afraid you'll overstress the small bolt if you put one of them in first. Grease all of them along the unthreaded length so that you can torque the bottom ones from the rear side. There is no way to do it from the front. There is just enough room to get an open end wrench on to hold the nut on the bottom bolts. I would only torque to the standard values even though there is some friction, it shouldn't be that much. Don't be afraid to tap them with a hammer using a piece of hardwood to protect the bolt head. Or use a plastic hammer. Have someone hold the wing tip up a little to unload the bolts from the torque of the wing weight. You can feel when the bolt frees up as you tap it in. Don't forget the "extra" two bolts in each wing that only go into the nutplates. All of the above IMHO. Hope maybe this helps. Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 9/23/2006 7:24:26 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, bobbyhester(at)charter.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Bobby Hester I am ready to attach the wings for the last time. I have one in place with the temp bolts holding it in place. I want to put the close tolerance bolts in tommarow. Can someone give me the tips that I need to know? It looks like I will have to start with the bottom outboard 1/4 bolt I know that I will have to start the nut as soon as I can before tapping the bolt all the way in. I have the bolts in the freezer. I read that I should not torque the bolts untill they are at room temp.. Am I going to be able to get on the nuts to torque them once all the nuts are on? -- My new email address: bobbyhester(at)charter.net Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A N857BH SB wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Windscreen frame
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Clive, Mine fit pretty well but I have heard of people pulling in the sides.....fit was too wide. Shimming the canopy and-or combinations of both. Tom in Ohio ----- Original Message ----- From: Clive Whittfield To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Windscreen frame Thanks Tom. Yes I understand the need to adjust the height of the canopy frame to suit, and using spacers under the canopy where needed etc. It just appears that the screen frame (roll bar) is the culprit here. I have sat it upright on a dead flat bench and measured the heights at various points. When comparing one side to the other, this is where that 0.5 inch difference shows up. Even my mark one eyeball tells me it looks like the frame has been 'pushed to one side'. The support bar mount is still centred tho' so I'm pretty sure any attempts to simply heat and bend would cause other problems. This looks like it would need cutting, reshaping and welding. Do all RV6 roll bars have this degree of variation in their shape, or am I worrying about nothing and should I simply ignore and adjust/ shim canopy to suit? Clive in NZ Subject: Re: Windscreen frame From: Tom & Cathy Ervin (tcervin(at)valkyrie.net) Date: Sat Sep 23 - 6:54 AM Cliff, The slider frame will have a tube on each side in the lower front to accept your track wheels. On my frame each side was quite a bit longer than needed and can be shortened. A 1/2 inch should be no problem to accomplish but I wouldn't do this until all the other fitting points seem to be coming into spec. I trimmed these tubes a little at a time until the overall fit came right in. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Re: Windscreen frame
Date: Sep 23, 2006
I would discuss this live with Van's. If it is irregular beyond their QC maybe they will just send you another one. Tim RV-6 Would be flying tomorrow if my address change didn't put a kink in my airworthiness application. Dang! _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Clive Whittfield Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 12:10 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Windscreen frame Thanks Tom. Yes I understand the need to adjust the height of the canopy frame to suit, and using spacers under the canopy where needed etc. It just appears that the screen frame (roll bar) is the culprit here. I have sat it upright on a dead flat bench and measured the heights at various points. When comparing one side to the other, this is where that 0.5 inch difference shows up. Even my mark one eyeball tells me it looks like the frame has been 'pushed to one side'. The support bar mount is still centred tho' so I'm pretty sure any attempts to simply heat and bend would cause other problems. This looks like it would need cutting, reshaping and welding. Do all RV6 roll bars have this degree of variation in their shape, or am I worrying about nothing and should I simply ignore and adjust/ shim canopy to suit? Clive in NZ Subject: Re: Windscreen frame From: Tom & Cathy Ervin ( tcervin(at)valkyrie.net) Date: Sat Sep 23 - 6:54 AM Cliff, The slider frame will have a tube on each side in the lower front to accept your track wheels. On my frame each side was quite a bit longer than needed and can be shortened. A 1/2 inch should be no problem to accomplish but I wouldn't do this until all the other fitting points seem to be coming into spec. I trimmed these tubes a little at a time until the overall fit came right in. Tom in Ohio (RV6-A) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Vision Microsystems - oil pressure problem
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Hi Listers, I have a Vision Microsystems VM-1000 installed in my RV-6. I have no oil pressure reading as it just flashes 0's. I pulled the connector and checked the pins and location but don't see a problem. The sender is mounted on the firewall with an aero quip hose up to it. VM is apparently NOT available for calls or support. Any ideas on what I can check? Thanks Tim RV -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Windscreen frame
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Clive, Vans response to these type of questions is usually to 'just make it fit'. This is easy to say for someone who has the skills and experience. It may also be something for which they would consider replacing the part. You should call. Do you have the canopy frame installed yet? I am about to install my own RV-6 canopy and I intend to get the canopy frame fitted to the fuselage shape before I worry about the roll bar. Right now I can see I will need to do a lot of work to get it within the 1/16" to 1/8" as called out on SC-2. For both parts I fully expect to have my welder make some 'adjustments'. Some local builders have needed to add a small section of tube to the frame, yours is the first roll bar I have heard that may need some serious adjustment. Just be certain the change is exactly what you want before getting the work done. I'm sure you could make it fit the way it is, but judging from your comments this may not be the right solution for you. Having said all that, by eyeball my roll bar looks pretty right in width and symmetry. Famous last words. Doug Gray (in OZ) > Thanks Tom. Yes I understand the need to adjust the height of the > canopy frame to suit, and using spacers under the canopy where needed > etc. It just appears that the screen frame (roll bar) is the culprit > here. I have sat it upright on a dead flat bench and measured the > heights at various points. When comparing one side to the other, this > is where that 0.5 inch difference shows up. Even my mark one eyeball > tells me it looks like the frame has been 'pushed to one side'. The > support bar mount is still centred tho' so I'm pretty sure any > attempts to simply heat and bend would cause other problems. This > looks like it would need cutting, reshaping and welding. Do all RV6 > roll bars have this degree of variation in their shape, or am I > worrying about nothing and should I simply ignore and adjust/ shim > canopy to suit? > > Clive in NZ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2006
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
Derek Bohn wrote: > >I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It >is my first time building, and am leaning towards the >fast build versions. In looking at the specifications >on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have >similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The >Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher >fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go >more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > >So my question basically is, why does anyone choose >the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and >TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has >very nice performance, especially considering the >lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the >RV. > >Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity >is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable >information about these. >Financial stability and customer service factors seem >to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to >assess. > >Thanks >Derek >(no flames intended) > As others have pointed out, mission & building material choice should be driving factors, with support & business reputation/history overshadowing even those items. One thing you didn't list in your comparison is stall speed. I looked at all three when I was younger & uneducated. As I got a bit older & better educated, I got a bit more focused on analyzing 'best worst case' scenarios. Back when I got serious about making a selection, an engine-out, off-airport landing in any of the Lancairs would have had about the same result as an off-airport landing in a twin (death). The Glasairs were highly variable, depending on model. Supposedly, the old G-1's had a tolerable landing speed if built light; I can't remember about the 2, & the 3 was as bad as, or worse than, the Lancairs. Just one more thing to consider as you make your selection. Charlie (hoping I never hear that Van is selling to an investment group) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: Mission specific/fiber glass
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Derek Determine your future aircraft mission. This will give you the info to decide which to build. Decide if you want to work with metal or fiber glass. I have done both. I prefer metal. They are all great aircraft and you probably would enjoy the whole process with any of the three. And last but not least. Utility to cost ratio................$$$$$$$$$$$ Talks Frank @SGU and SLC >From: Derek Bohn <ctnyfl(at)yahoo.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2006 15:04:03 -0700 (PDT) > > >I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It >is my first time building, and am leaning towards the >fast build versions. In looking at the specifications >on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have >similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The >Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher >fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go >more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > >So my question basically is, why does anyone choose >the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and >TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has >very nice performance, especially considering the >lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the >RV. > >Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity >is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable >information about these. >Financial stability and customer service factors seem >to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to >assess. > >Thanks >Derek >(no flames intended) > > > >From the company websites: > >RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT > >Fast Build Cost >$25,705 $38,500 $42,544 > (no slow build avail.) > > >V Cruise @ 8000ft. >205mph 220mph 210mph >(200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop > > >Payload(full fuel) >448lb 360lb 596lb > > >Range @ 8000ft. >755sm 1450sm 1009sm > > >Solo ROC >2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm > > >Solo TO/Landing Roll >250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited > > >Baggage Capacity >100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. >ft. > > >Cabin Width"/ Height" >43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height > > >__________________________________________________ > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Beadle" <dan.beadle(at)inclinesoftworks.com>
Subject: RE:
Date: Sep 23, 2006
For me, an RV builder, my decision process went as follows: * While I am pretty confident in my ability, I have never built an airplane, so mainstream was important. * I am not fond of fiberglass work (there is still plenty in the RV). * I had never done aluminum work. So I went to a 2 day EAA riveting class. I did well, confidence soared. I CAN DO THIS. * I didn't want an orphan. Van's has the most flying airplanes in the experimental world. But your other choices are also mainstreams. For me, oddballs with perhaps better performance, were not considered for the first plane. * I looked at the accident data. Being a perfect pilot :-) - I didn't worry about stupid pilot trick types of accidents - I looked for wings falling off, unexplained failures, etc. Van's looked good. I am about 70% complete. Van's instructions have mistakes, but the support network is great - both from the factory and the lists. I suspect that you will do well with whatever kit you pick. It is a long journey (for me, it will be 15 months - and that is pretty fast). You need to pick the plane that you can see yourself flying in the long run. Hope this helps. See my blog at www.mykitlog.com/danbeadle and you will get an idea of the ups and downs of my project. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Derek Bohn Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:04 PM Subject: I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It is my first time building, and am leaning towards the fast build versions. In looking at the specifications on the company websites it seems the RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. So my question basically is, why does anyone choose the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has very nice performance, especially considering the lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the RV. Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable information about these. Financial stability and customer service factors seem to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to assess. Thanks Derek (no flames intended) >From the company websites: RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT Fast Build Cost $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 (no slow build avail.) V Cruise @ 8000ft. 205mph 220mph 210mph (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop Payload(full fuel) 448lb 360lb 596lb Range @ 8000ft. 755sm 1450sm 1009sm Solo ROC 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm Solo TO/Landing Roll 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited Baggage Capacity 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. ft. Cabin Width"/ Height" 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height __________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 23, 2006
Subject: Re: Windscreen frame
In a message dated 09/23/2006 4:28:58 PM Central Daylight Time, cazw(at)ihug.co.nz writes: Do all RV6 roll bars have this degree of variation in their shape, or am I worrying about nothing and should I simply ignore and adjust/ shim canopy to suit? >>> Hi Clive- You might best leave the monster rollbar as is and make the frame match it, since re-bending the smaller tubes will result in less hernias and insanity. These frames will typically have to be beat, bashed, stomped, cussed at, hootchie-cood and occasionally sweet-talked into shape. As a matter of fact, I spent the better part of yesterday doing all of the above on a -7. Fear not, there is help a mouse-click away. Take a look at Mike Schipper's excellent description of how he wrestled his frame into submission: http://www.my9a.com/finish6.asp I've seen other descriptions, but this seems typical- an archive search will expose many horror stories and a great deal of help... >From The Possumworks in TN (USA) Mark Phillips http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 23, 2006
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: IO-360 B1E??
A quick search of the archives turned up a couple of guys using this engine on -8s; is anyone using one on a -7 taildragger? Any major issues? Apparently, this engine has a rear facing injector. Is this a major disadvantage? Thanks, Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com>
Subject: Re: IO-360 B1E??
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Charlie I'm using an IO-320-B1A on my 9A. To fit it needs a minor mod to swap the sump for one that mounts the injector underneath. Most shops should have a spare sump and induction tubes lying around. I suspect the same mod would be needed and work for the IO-360-B1E assuming it is the same basic engine as the O-360. Best regards Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charlie England" <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net> Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 5:09 AM Subject: RV-List: IO-360 B1E?? > > A quick search of the archives turned up a couple of guys using this > engine on -8s; is anyone using one on a -7 taildragger? > > Any major issues? Apparently, this engine has a rear facing injector. Is > this a major disadvantage? > > Thanks, > > Charlie > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2006
From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: Vision Microsystems - oil pressure problem
If you keep after them, and leave phone messages, they will answer you eventually. They are in the midst of a move from Oregon to Texas. Meanwhile, check to see if you have 5 volts from the red wire to the black wire at the transducer. If you get desperate, I can send you an old transducer that works, it just reads wrong, and you can check your wires with it. John Tim Bryan wrote: > > > > Hi Listers, > > > > I have a Vision Microsystems VM-1000 installed in my RV-6. I have no > oil pressure reading as it just flashes 0's. I pulled the connector > and checked the pins and location but don't see a problem. The sender > is mounted on the firewall with an aero quip hose up to it. VM is > apparently NOT available for calls or support. Any ideas on what I > can check? Thanks > > Tim > > RV -6 > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Morrow" <DanFM01(at)butter.toast.net>
Subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Before you make your final decision, be sure you get a chance to sit in the cockpit of your intended! If your body deviates very far from the standard FAA adult male, you may find that you're not happy in many of the homebuilts available today. It sounds trivial but comfort is important. Even better get a ride in one. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek Bohn" <ctnyfl(at)yahoo.com> Sent: Saturday, September 23, 2006 3:09 PM Subject: RV-List: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT > > I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It > is my first time building, and am leaning towards the > fast build versions. In looking at the specifications -- snip -- > Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity > is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable > information about these. > Financial stability and customer service factors seem > to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to > assess. > -- snip -- > > > -- > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
Doors? We don't have any stinking doors! :-) In a message dated 09/23/2006 5:20:59 PM Pacific Daylight Time, Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Bruce Gray" Hee...Hee. I can still blow your doors off, inverted. Bruce www.glasair.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: Vision Microsystems - oil pressure problem
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Tim, If you have the VM-1000 Installation/User Manual, Section 5 is a Trouble Shooting Guide. Page 88 give specific readings to check out the oil pressure indicating system. If you don't have the manual, contact me back channel and I'll send you a copy of the appropriate page. Microsystems has been bought out by JPI and has moved its factory operations. Part of the factory will be located in California and the assembly/maintenance part in Boerne, TX. They say it will take another week or so to get their benchs moved and set up. Otis Cameron is the VM expert in Boerne. He is pretty good about answering/ returning phone calls regarding problems, though currently limited in the actions he can provide. He can be reached at (830) 755-6330. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio ---------------------------------------------------- > From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> > Subject: RV-List: Vision Microsystems - oil pressure problem > > > Hi Listers, > > > I have a Vision Microsystems VM-1000 installed in my RV-6. I have > no oil > pressure reading as it just flashes 0's. I pulled the connector > and checked > the pins and location but don't see a problem. The sender is > mounted on the > firewall with an aero quip hose up to it. VM is apparently NOT > available > for calls or support. Any ideas on what I can check? Thanks > > Tim > > RV -6 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2006
From: "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Plane Choice
I am sure we all went through a similar selection process. Here is mine: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html But I think you are asking the wrong people why to choose the glass planes. I bet if you went on their lists and ask them they will all be on the other side of the fence. Most of their arguments would center around speed and looks. Those are very valid if they matter more to you than other factors. Take your time and be sure about it... -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com On 9/23/06, Derek Bohn wrote: > > > I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It > is my first time building, and am leaning towards the > fast build versions. In looking at the specifications > on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have > similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The > Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher > fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go > more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > > So my question basically is, why does anyone choose > the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and > TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has > very nice performance, especially considering the > lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the > RV. > > Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity > is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable > information about these. > Financial stability and customer service factors seem > to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to > assess. > > Thanks > Derek > (no flames intended) > > > >From the company websites: > > RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT > > Fast Build Cost > $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 > (no slow build avail.) > > > V Cruise @ 8000ft. > 205mph 220mph 210mph > (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop > > > Payload(full fuel) > 448lb 360lb 596lb > > > Range @ 8000ft. > 755sm 1450sm 1009sm > > > Solo ROC > 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm > > > Solo TO/Landing Roll > 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited > > > Baggage Capacity > 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. > ft. > > > Cabin Width"/ Height" > 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2006
From: Larry Rosen <LarryRosen(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Plane Choice
You are asking this question to a group that is biased. Per David's suggestion as one of the glass planes lists. Here is one you might try <http://legacyfg.jconserv.net/index.php>. Let us know what they say and what you decide. Larry Rosen RV-10 N205EN (reserved) David Leonard wrote: > I am sure we all went through a similar selection process. Here is mine: > > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html > > But I think you are asking the wrong people why to choose the glass > planes. I bet if you went on their lists and ask them they will all > be on the other side of the fence. Most of their arguments would > center around speed and looks. Those are very valid if they matter > more to you than other factors. Take your time and be sure about it... > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > My websites at: > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html > http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com > > > On 9/23/06, *Derek Bohn* > > wrote: > > > > > I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It > is my first time building, and am leaning towards the > fast build versions. In looking at the specifications > on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have > similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The > Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher > fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go > more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > > So my question basically is, why does anyone choose > the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and > TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has > very nice performance, especially considering the > lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the > RV. > > Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity > is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable > information about these. > Financial stability and customer service factors seem > to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to > assess. > > Thanks > Derek > (no flames intended) > > > >From the company websites: > > RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT > > Fast Build Cost > $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 > (no slow build avail.) > > > V Cruise @ 8000ft. > 205mph 220mph 210mph > (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop > > > Payload(full fuel) > 448lb 360lb 596lb > > > Range @ 8000ft. > 755sm 1450sm 1009sm > > > Solo ROC > 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm > > > Solo TO/Landing Roll > 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited > > > Baggage Capacity > 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. > ft. > > > Cabin Width"/ Height" > 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: RV7a v. Legacy FG v. Glassair SII FT
From: "B25Flyer" <dougr(at)petroblend.com>
Date: Sep 24, 2006
One deciding factor is that I am a buyer, not a builder, and I would never buy a plastic airplane that was not built in a controlled environment, i.e. a factory. I love flying plastic airplanes, but there is too much risk associated with buying one. The numbers flying pretty well answers your question, build the RV. Tailwinds, Doug Rozendaal bought 2- RV-4s and a F-1 EVO Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63669#63669 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Subject: Re: Vision Microsystems - oil pressure problem
In a message dated 9/24/2006 1:34:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chasb(at)satx.rr.com writes: If you have the VM-1000 Installation/User Manual, Section 5 is a Trouble Shooting Guide. Page 88 give specific readings to check out the oil pressure indicating system. If you don't have the manual, contact me back channel and I'll send you a copy of the appropriate page. ======================================= My experience may give you pause to consider what can happen in an intermittent piece of cable. This it the only explanation I was able to come up with my fuel pressure (carbureted) sender indications from day one until I changed the cable (remade it with all new materials). >From the first flights until about 6 months ago I had variations in my pressure indications that ran the gamut from zero to 9 psi at various times and then would settle down for months only to recur at odd times. I discussed with VMI and they told me that there is no way the sender or the conditioning and/or display driver circuits in the DPU could behave this way. Before my last trip to Sedona I finally gave up, rebuilt it and spent an hour on my back under the panel stripping out the old one and reconnecting the new one. It has been working well ever since. What I believe happens is that the cable VMI buys is the wonderfully high quality (he said facetiously) stuff that comes from overseas. It is constructed of individual primaries that get shielded and jacketed as a grouping. I suspect that when the cable making machine senses that one of the individual wires has reached the end of the spool, it stops and notifies the operator to manually load a new spool. The operator (making the equivalent of 5 cents a day) strips back some insulation on the free ends and twists them together. He hits go and the machine continues making more high quality cable and no one is the wiser. The shipping guy tests the spool (if they test at all) and there is continuity on all wires. We're good to go off to the USA and fly in the instrumentation circuit of an aircraft. Imagine an only slightly less motivated operator that doesn't strip the wires and a manufacturer that laid off the test function to cut costs. Good wire and cable is worth the money. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Switched power revisited
From: "Dennis Jones" <djones(at)northboone.net>
Date: Sep 24, 2006
If Charles Reiche is hanging out there in siber space, I have a question about wiring that switch pin for the encoder. If I run power to the encoder from the transponder switch pin (8 or 20) to pin 14 on the encoder, leaving pin 8 on the encoder empty (no seperate a/c power) what pin (pin 8 or 20) on the transponder should be used? Dennis Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63689#63689 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Ok, I have exhausted all my avenues with the gauge and find this. The wires at the sender test just fine as per VMI voltage test procedure The fuel pressure was working just fine, so I swapped the two senders. The fuel pressure continues to work and the oil does not. Now I have to ask myself. Does this engine produce oil pressure? Thank God I have not run it for more than a minute. Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? Is it possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do I burp it? My engine is an 0-360-A1A and is from Aero Sport Thanks for all the input. No oil pressure reading means no flying. Oh, will the DAR expect me to fire the engine to confirm the gauges work? Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 7:38 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Vision Microsystems - oil pressure problem In a message dated 9/24/2006 1:34:59 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, chasb(at)satx.rr.com writes: If you have the VM-1000 Installation/User Manual, Section 5 is a Trouble Shooting Guide. Page 88 give specific readings to check out the oil pressure indicating system. If you don't have the manual, contact me back channel and I'll send you a copy of the appropriate page. ======================================= My experience may give you pause to consider what can happen in an intermittent piece of cable. This it the only explanation I was able to come up with my fuel pressure (carbureted) sender indications from day one until I changed the cable (remade it with all new materials). >From the first flights until about 6 months ago I had variations in my pressure indications that ran the gamut from zero to 9 psi at various times and then would settle down for months only to recur at odd times. I discussed with VMI and they told me that there is no way the sender or the conditioning and/or display driver circuits in the DPU could behave this way. Before my last trip to Sedona I finally gave up, rebuilt it and spent an hour on my back under the panel stripping out the old one and reconnecting the new one. It has been working well ever since. What I believe happens is that the cable VMI buys is the wonderfully high quality (he said facetiously) stuff that comes from overseas. It is constructed of individual primaries that get shielded and jacketed as a grouping. I suspect that when the cable making machine senses that one of the individual wires has reached the end of the spool, it stops and notifies the operator to manually load a new spool. The operator (making the equivalent of 5 cents a day) strips back some insulation on the free ends and twists them together. He hits go and the machine continues making more high quality cable and no one is the wiser. The shipping guy tests the spool (if they test at all) and there is continuity on all wires. We're good to go off to the USA and fly in the instrumentation circuit of an aircraft. Imagine an only slightly less motivated operator that doesn't strip the wires and a manufacturer that laid off the test function to cut costs. Good wire and cable is worth the money. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 24, 2006
Subject: Re: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:08:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes: Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? Is it possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do I burp it? =================================================== Disconnect the lead to the starter to ensure that you don't get confused and get hit with a spinning prop. Disconnect the ignition wires from the spark plugs and lay them aside. Remove all of the spark plugs. Rotate the engine using the prop until you either get tired or you get a pressure indication. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Adjusting Propeller RPM
Date: Sep 25, 2006
I have a WhirlWind 200RV prop, which uses a McCauley hub and an old Hartzel F-series controller. The best RPM I get on takeoff is 2640 and I don't know how to adjust the maximum RPM. The controller doesn't seem to have any adjustment except a stop-screw on the cable arm. This screw is all the way out, so no help there. Is there some adjustment available on the prop hub? Any help would be appreciated. Ron Schreck RV-8 "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2006
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:08:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes: > > Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? Is it > possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do I burp it? > > ========================== > > Disconnect the lead to the starter to ensure that you don't get confused > and get hit with a spinning prop. > > Disconnect the ignition wires from the spark plugs and lay them aside. > Remove all of the spark plugs. > > Rotate the engine using the prop until you either get tired or you get a > pressure indication. > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > Or install a temp manual oil pressure, start engine and see if you have oil pressure in the first 30 sec. my guess is that you do. Jerry ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 24, 2006
From: sarg314 <sarg314(at)comcast.net>
Subject: 6/6A getting in and out
I'm building a 6A with tip-up canopy and have been in and out a lot lately working on radio rack, and seat belts, etc. The canopy, panel and flap housing are not installed. I had the seats and cushions in. I'm trying to imagine how to get in and out gracefully without kicking anything once the whole thing is put together. I will be installing the vertical support from the fuel selector valve to the bottom center of the panel which looks to be a nasty obstacle. It looks like it's going to be pretty awkward. I can do deep knee bends easily, so I don't think I'm lacking strength or flexibility. I'm guessing I just haven't found the best way yet. Do you stand on the seat and do a deep knee bend and then extricate your feet from under you? Can you put much weight on the elect. flap housing? I am assuming the floor forward of the main spar cannot support much weight. -- Tom Sargent RV-6A , instruments ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
First off, physically remove the sender and confirm oil is at least getting to it. You could check the sender with air pressure at the same time. Do you have a flow restrictor in the oil sensor line - is it drilled correctly? Doug Gray > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:08:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes: > Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? Is > it possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do I > burp it? > > ========================== > > Disconnect the lead to the starter to ensure that you don't get > confused and get hit with a spinning prop. > > Disconnect the ignition wires from the spark plugs and lay them aside. > Remove all of the spark plugs. > > Rotate the engine using the prop until you either get tired or you get > a pressure indication. > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Adjusting Propeller RPM
Date: Sep 25, 2006
On 25 Sep 2006, at 24:17, Ron Schreck wrote: > I have a WhirlWind 200RV prop, which uses a McCauley hub and an old > Hartzel F-series controller. The best RPM I get on takeoff is 2640 > and I don't know how to adjust the maximum RPM. The controller > doesn't seem to have any adjustment except a stop-screw on the > cable arm. This screw is all the way out, so no help there. Is > there some adjustment available on the prop hub? Any help would be > appreciated. > Do you get 2700 rpm during climb or at higher speed? If so, the lower rpm during takeoff is probably because the prop is at its low pitch stop, which is set in the hub somehow. If you can get 2700 rpm during climb and higher speeds, I would be tempted to leave it alone. The performance improvement you would get during takeoff from the extra 60 rpm is likely not important, and making the low pitch stop finer will result in more windmilling drag following engine failure - not good. If you are limited to 2640 at all speeds, then it is a prop governor (or tachometer) issue, and all the above does not apply. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: 6/6A getting in and out
Date: Sep 25, 2006
The forward bottom skin can take your weight. I usually try to keep my feet on the stiffeners, but if I put a sub-floor in there I'll just have to guess where they are. I have stood on the skin itself; the .040 skin secured at the edges with rivets and with stiffeners installed does not buckle under 200#s. I would not be surprised to find that it can take two people at once; Van engineers pretty well. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - plumbing wings (actually on hold for school) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of sarg314 Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 10:38 PM Subject: RV-List: 6/6A getting in and out I'm building a 6A with tip-up canopy and have been in and out a lot lately working on radio rack, and seat belts, etc. The canopy, panel and flap housing are not installed. I had the seats and cushions in. I'm trying to imagine how to get in and out gracefully without kicking anything once the whole thing is put together. I will be installing the vertical support from the fuel selector valve to the bottom center of the panel which looks to be a nasty obstacle. It looks like it's going to be pretty awkward. I can do deep knee bends easily, so I don't think I'm lacking strength or flexibility. I'm guessing I just haven't found the best way yet. Do you stand on the seat and do a deep knee bend and then extricate your feet from under you? Can you put much weight on the elect. flap housing? I am assuming the floor forward of the main spar cannot support much weight. -- Tom Sargent RV-6A , instruments ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: Richard Seiders <seiders(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: 6/6A getting in and out
Try mounting your throttle/etc controls on a panel under instr. panel to eliminate the vert leg and create much more wiggle space. I also added floor protection in the form of rubber panels cut from Home Depot interlocking floor pads. Cut to fit between the angle floor supports. Cheap at $20 and not only cushion the floor skin but absorb vibration and easier on your feet. Look good too! At 01:37 AM 9/25/2006, you wrote: > >I'm building a 6A with tip-up canopy and have been in and out a lot lately >working on radio rack, and seat belts, etc. The canopy, panel and flap >housing are not installed. I had the seats and cushions in. >I'm trying to imagine how to get in and out gracefully without kicking >anything once the whole thing is put together. I will be installing the >vertical support from the fuel selector valve to the bottom center of the >panel which looks to be a nasty obstacle. It looks like it's going to be >pretty awkward. I can do deep knee bends easily, so I don't think I'm >lacking strength or flexibility. > >I'm guessing I just haven't found the best way yet. Do you stand on the >seat and do a deep knee bend and then extricate your feet from under >you? Can you put much weight on the elect. flap housing? I am assuming >the floor forward of the main spar cannot support much weight. > >-- >Tom Sargent >RV-6A , instruments > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RE: 6/6A getting in and out
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: "Stucklen, Frederic W UTPWR" <Fred.Stucklen(at)UTCPower.com>
Tom, I find that just stepping in with the left foot on the landing gear bracket, left-hand on the top of the instrument panel, and right hand on the roll bar work great. Then it's just sliding down the seat to a sitting position.... Fred Stucklen RV-6A N926RV Building an RV-7A I'm building a 6A with tip-up canopy and have been in and out a lot lately working on radio rack, and seat belts, etc. The canopy, panel and flap housing are not installed. I had the seats and cushions in. I'm trying to imagine how to get in and out gracefully without kicking anything once the whole thing is put together. I will be installing the vertical support from the fuel selector valve to the bottom center of the panel which looks to be a nasty obstacle. It looks like it's going to be pretty awkward. I can do deep knee bends easily, so I don't think I'm lacking strength or flexibility. I'm guessing I just haven't found the best way yet. Do you stand on the seat and do a deep knee bend and then extricate your feet from under you? Can you put much weight on the elect. flap housing? I am assuming the floor forward of the main spar cannot support much weight. -- Tom Sargent RV-6A , instruments ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: 6/6A getting in and out
sarg314 wrote: > > I'm building a 6A with tip-up canopy and have been in and out a lot > lately working on radio rack, and seat belts, etc. The canopy, panel > and flap housing are not installed. I had the seats and cushions in. > I'm trying to imagine how to get in and out gracefully without kicking > anything once the whole thing is put together. I will be installing the > vertical support from the fuel selector valve to the bottom center of > the panel which looks to be a nasty obstacle. It looks like it's going > to be pretty awkward. I can do deep knee bends easily, so I don't think > I'm lacking strength or flexibility. > > I'm guessing I just haven't found the best way yet. Do you stand on the > seat and do a deep knee bend and then extricate your feet from under > you? Can you put much weight on the elect. flap housing? I am > assuming the floor forward of the main spar cannot support much weight. Getting in and out of any RV requires flexibility that most of us possess. Occasionally an elderly passenger will have difficulty but if the passenger can get onto the wing, they can be coached into the cabin. The tip-up is a little more difficult since the passenger can't grab the canopy or panel. Like you I have the control console in my RV6 and it in no way hinders getting into the plane. The only time the console is a problem is when you crawl headfirst under the panel, it is difficult to get both arms past the console at the same time. But I still find the location of the controls to be convenient and I think you will enjoy the console. Yep, technique is required for smooth entries and exits. I stand on the wingwalk, then place my right foot in the seat just to the right of the stick. The right hand is on the rollbar as I slide over to the seat and "sit" on the top of the seatback. The left foot is brought into the cabin and then it is just a graceful little slide down the seatback and into flight position. It happens quicker than you can read this. :-) Getting out requires a little more effort. Left hand on the fuse side rail, right hand on top of the right seat back, push up with your feet while sliding up the seatback until the right foot is in the seat, then swing left foot out onto the wing. The floor will support your weight and the flap housing is plenty strong. Matter of fact, you can grab about anything but the panel or canopy. You can do it..........hundreds of RV pilots have gone before you! :-) Sam Buchanan (RV-6, 780 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Well this creates a good question. The line from the engine to the sender is about 24" long and is a dead end. If air is trapped in the line are you suggesting it would not read a pressure? I would think the air would pressurize the sender as well. I could bleed it if you think it would matter. Assuming the engine is making pressure. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:17 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem > > > First off, physically remove the sender and confirm oil is at least > getting to it. You could check the sender with air pressure at the same > time. > > Do you have a flow restrictor in the oil sensor line - is it drilled > correctly? > > Doug Gray > > > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:08:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes: > > Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? Is > > it possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do I > > burp it? > > > > ========================== > > > > Disconnect the lead to the starter to ensure that you don't get > > confused and get hit with a spinning prop. > > > > Disconnect the ignition wires from the spark plugs and lay them aside. > > Remove all of the spark plugs. > > > > Rotate the engine using the prop until you either get tired or you get > > a pressure indication. > > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Wicks has changed!
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Check out the new and improved Wick's. They have expanded into the Northwest with a new pilot shop in Arlington, Washington and will even post your "For Sale" aircraft on their website for free. http://www.wicksaircraft.com/Wicks/Pages/LIST_YOUR_AIRCRAFT_FORSALE.php A new catalog offering will surely appeal to the RV'er.....tandem or side-by-side, even -A or -A less. :D http://www.wicksaircraft.com/catalog/product_cat.php/subid 84/index.html Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=63762#63762 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Re: Plane Choice
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Well, I think the question should be one sent to this list, but sent also to all the other lists. Why not get totally confused! Before making the decision to go the RV-7, then the RV-10, I test flew everything I could. I flew the Lancair IV and ES. I flew the Velocity, the Glasair SII, the Glastar and Sportsman. I flew the RV-7, RV-9 and finally the RV-10. I even flew the SeaRay (sp). I eventually went the RV route because of all the targets that they hit with the design, and because of the enormous wealth of experience in the builder community. The latter is matched by Lancair, but not by any of the others, IMHO. In the end, I also got put off by the high cost of the glass planes. I could afford one, but why? I am not one to build for looks or for speed alone. I wanted utility and reasonable speed. The RV gives one that, as well as ease in building, especially now that they have come up the ages and have reasonable plans. The continued use of baggies or paper bags is odd, but whatever. The plans do what they say they are supposed to, are easy (relative to each one's ability) to build and fly. But.... you've got to decide what is your over riding decision factor. Looks? Speed? Building ease? Insurance? Flying capabilities? Building climate? If you do it like I did, then list all the reasons you'd go out and buy a plane, any plane. These are your typical mission and cost of ownership specifications. Then list all the build issues. Tools needed, temperature during the winter, allergies, sound levels, previous experience, builder community, factory experience, support, cleanliness, parts availability, on and on. Then list all the intangibles. Looks, ramp appeal, fighter pilot feel. Put all these into a spreadsheet. Now, before you fly, rate each one on a 3-point scale. 1 = not important to 5 = very important. No 0's allowed. Everything must have an importance score. Then go fly and interview the heck out of the folks at each manufacturer. Come back and rank your experiences on each of the items after flying and your interviews. For me the Lancair IV got a 5 for fun flying, and the RV-7 got a 4. The RV-10 got a middle of the road 3, whereas the C-182 that I was flying at the time got a 2. The Lancair got a 2 for ingress and egress, whereas the C-182 got a 4. The RV-10 got another 3, as did the RV-7, but the Glasair got a 1. And so on. These scores get multiplied by their importance factor. Then all the ranked scores for each plane get added and an average taken. It's surprising how it all turns out. Usually it's about what you were leaning for, but sometimes..... Those are the times you got to go open a cold one and picture yourself opening the hanger and looking at you baby. What do you see there? Write the name down on a piece of paper and go call to place your order. John Jessen RV-10 tailcone -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Larry Rosen Sent: Sunday, September 24, 2006 2:50 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Plane Choice You are asking this question to a group that is biased. Per David's suggestion as one of the glass planes lists. Here is one you might try <http://legacyfg.jconserv.net/index.php>. Let us know what they say and what you decide. Larry Rosen RV-10 N205EN (reserved) David Leonard wrote: > I am sure we all went through a similar selection process. Here is mine: > > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html > > But I think you are asking the wrong people why to choose the glass > planes. I bet if you went on their lists and ask them they will all > be on the other side of the fence. Most of their arguments would > center around speed and looks. Those are very valid if they matter > more to you than other factors. Take your time and be sure about it... > > -- > David Leonard > > Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY > My websites at: > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html > http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html > http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com > > > On 9/23/06, *Derek Bohn* > > wrote: > > > > > I am trying to choose between these three aircraft. It > is my first time building, and am leaning towards the > fast build versions. In looking at the specifications > on the company websites it seems the > RV is considerably less expensive, yet they all have > similar cabin size, baggage capacity and airspeed. The > Legacy and Glassiar do have more range due to higher > fuel capacity, however I really wouldn't want to go > more than 4 hours without stopping anyway. > > So my question basically is, why does anyone choose > the Lancair or Glassair? The Legacy's ROC and > TO/Landing numbers are far worse. The Glassair has > very nice performance, especially considering the > lower hosepower, but not for a 65% premium over the > RV. > > Am I missing anything? Building time and complexity > is a factor also, but I haven't found any reliable > information about these. > Financial stability and customer service factors seem > to favor Vans, though , again, that is difficult to > assess. > > Thanks > Derek > (no flames intended) > > > >From the company websites: > > RV7a Legacy FG Glassair SII FT > > Fast Build Cost > $25,705 $38,500 $42,544 > (no slow build avail.) > > > V Cruise @ 8000ft. > 205mph 220mph 210mph > (200hp, cs prop) (210mph, cs prop) (180mph,?cs prop > > > Payload(full fuel) > 448lb 360lb 596lb > > > Range @ 8000ft. > 755sm 1450sm 1009sm > > > Solo ROC > 2450fpm 1700fpm 2700fpm > > > Solo TO/Landing Roll > 250/350ft 1500/900ft not lsited > > > Baggage Capacity > 100lb/12 cu. ft. 90lb/ ? cu. ft. 100lb./12 cu. > ft. > > > Cabin Width"/ Height" > 43/ 42 43/44.5 42/ ? height > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "jimmy" <jimmy(at)jhill.biz>
Subject: weather
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Due to computer crash, I have lost the excellent enroute weather webb address developed by the RV person. Could someone pleas share it with me? Thanks. Jimmy RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: weather
At 01:20 PM 9/25/2006, you wrote: >Due to computer crash, I have lost the excellent enroute weather webb >address developed by the RV person. >Could someone pleas share it with me? Is this it? http://www.weathermeister.com/free/ Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dan Krueger <pndkrueg(at)mchsi.com>
Subject: Re: weather
Date: Sep 25, 2006
www.rvproject.com/wx Dan RV6A On Sep 25, 2006, at 2:20 PM, jimmy wrote: > Due to computer crash, I have lost the excellent enroute weather webb > address developed by the RV person. > Could someone pleas share it with me? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: weather
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Actually the URL changed: http://www.weathermeister.com )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Dan Krueger To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 12:52 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: weather www.rvproject.com/wx Dan RV6A On Sep 25, 2006, at 2:20 PM, jimmy wrote: Due to computer crash, I have lost the excellent enroute weather webb address developed by the RV person. Could someone pleas share it with me? --> http://forums.matronics.com http://wiki.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: Airspeed Indicator Correction?
Date: Sep 25, 2006
I have a true airspeed indicator...you set your altitude opposite the temperature and the rotatable portion moves to correct for non-standard conditions. A manometer shows that the stationary part of the indicator is accutate - that's up to 140mph. The moveable section, over 140mph, always seems a bit high when "properly" set. Rough and ready comparisions with GPS confirms an error. Before I tear up the instrument panel, I need to ask: Is there some screw slot or some-such that allows a mechanical correction to be applied, or do you have to live with these things? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "KUMC Testuser" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Airspeed Indicator Correction?
Date: Sep 25, 2006
That moveable portion is just circular slide rule. Unless the mask they used to print it was off it will be correct. Just like your E6B, there is no adjustment. Parallax can induce apparent errors as well. Run the same IAS and temp thru your E6B - should be the same. Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Fasching Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:48 PM Subject: RV-List: Airspeed Indicator Correction? I have a true airspeed indicator...you set your altitude opposite the temperature and the rotatable portion moves to correct for non-standard conditions. A manometer shows that the stationary part of the indicator is accutate - that's up to 140mph. The moveable section, over 140mph, always seems a bit high when "properly" set. Rough and ready comparisions with GPS confirms an error. Before I tear up the instrument panel, I need to ask: Is there some screw slot or some-such that allows a mechanical correction to be applied, or do you have to live with these things? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first opportunity ... __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Airspeed Indicator Correction?
Date: Sep 25, 2006
On 25 Sep 2006, at 16:48, John Fasching wrote: > I have a true airspeed indicator...you set your altitude opposite > the temperature and the rotatable portion moves to correct for non- > standard conditions. > > A manometer shows that the stationary part of the indicator is > accutate - that's up to 140mph. The moveable section, over 140mph, > always seems a bit high when "properly" set. > > Rough and ready comparisions with GPS confirms an error. > > Before I tear up the instrument panel, I need to ask: Is there some > screw slot or some-such that allows a mechanical correction to be > applied, or do you have to live with these things? > I don't think there is any provision for a correction at the ASI. You say that a manometer shows the stationary scale is accurate to 140 mph. Did you test it with the manometer above 140 mph? There are several possible sources of your error: 1. ASI instrument error - check the ASI against a good pressure source over the full range of speeds. 2. Pitot or static system leaks. 3. Errors in the OAT source you are using to set the moveable scale on the ASI. Some people put their OAT sensor in locations where they are known to read high (e.g. in a NACA duct on the forward fuselage). 4. Temperature scale on the ASI not accurate (i.e. it provides an inaccurate correction from IAS to TAS). To check this, note the IAS, altitude, temperature and TAS the next time you are trying this feature out. Do a manual conversion from IAS to TAS after you get back on the ground to see if you come up with the same TAS as your ASI did. 5. Inaccurate method to calculate TAS from GPS data. Many people seem to think that if you average the GPS ground speeds from several different headings that the result will be TAS. This is only true if the wind is zero. If there is any wind, the average of several GPS ground speeds will be greater than the TAS. 6. Static system position error. Every static system has some error. Some people have found that the nice looking flush static ports have larger errors than the pop rivet static port that Van calls for. The flush static ports result in a sensed static pressure that is too high, and thus the ASI reads too low. I've got a bunch of links on pitot-static systems on my web site that address many of the above areas: http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/index.php?&PID=48 http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/phplinks/index.php?&PID=49 Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Sep 26, 2006
I'm not suggesting trapped air is the problem. As you rightly point out it is not an issue. I am suggesting that in the first instance you check that oil or should I say oil pressure IS getting to the transducer. Is the line blocked (perhaps by an undrilled flow restrictor), connected to the wrong engine port etc? I would expect that if you remove the sender itself oil should flow freely from the line when the prop is turned through. Simple test, something I would try. Doug Gray > > Well this creates a good question. The line from the engine to the sender > is about 24" long and is a dead end. If air is trapped in the line are you > suggesting it would not read a pressure? I would think the air would > pressurize the sender as well. I could bleed it if you think it would > matter. Assuming the engine is making pressure. > > Tim > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray > > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:17 AM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem > > > > > > First off, physically remove the sender and confirm oil is at least > > getting to it. You could check the sender with air pressure at the same > > time. > > > > Do you have a flow restrictor in the oil sensor line - is it drilled > > correctly? > > > > Doug Gray > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:08:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > > n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes: > > > Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? Is > > > it possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do I > > > burp it? > > > > > > ========================== > > > > > > Disconnect the lead to the starter to ensure that you don't get > > > confused and get hit with a spinning prop. > > > > > > Disconnect the ignition wires from the spark plugs and lay them aside. > > > Remove all of the spark plugs. > > > > > > Rotate the engine using the prop until you either get tired or you get > > > a pressure indication. > > > > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Thanks Doug, Today I disconnected the transducer and screwed on a mechanical gauge. I do have engine oil pressure, so back to figuring out the gauge/ transducer issue. Thanks again Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:52 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RE: RV-List: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem > > > I'm not suggesting trapped air is the problem. As you rightly point out > it is not an issue. > > I am suggesting that in the first instance you check that oil or should > I say oil pressure IS getting to the transducer. > > Is the line blocked (perhaps by an undrilled flow restrictor), connected > to the wrong engine port etc? I would expect that if you remove the > sender itself oil should flow freely from the line when the prop is > turned through. > > Simple test, something I would try. > > Doug Gray > > > > > > > > Well this creates a good question. The line from the engine to the > sender > > is about 24" long and is a dead end. If air is trapped in the line are > you > > suggesting it would not read a pressure? I would think the air would > > pressurize the sender as well. I could bleed it if you think it would > > matter. Assuming the engine is making pressure. > > > > Tim > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > > > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Doug Gray > > > Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 2:17 AM > > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Vision Microsystems NOT - oil pressure problem > > > > > > > > > First off, physically remove the sender and confirm oil is at least > > > getting to it. You could check the sender with air pressure at the > same > > > time. > > > > > > Do you have a flow restrictor in the oil sensor line - is it drilled > > > correctly? > > > > > > Doug Gray > > > > > > > > > > In a message dated 9/24/2006 8:08:26 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, > > > > n616tb(at)btsapps.com writes: > > > > Question: How can I confirm if I even have oil pressure? > Is > > > > it possible the engine oil system has an air bubble? How do > I > > > > burp it? > > > > > > > > ========================== > > > > > > > > Disconnect the lead to the starter to ensure that you don't get > > > > confused and get hit with a spinning prop. > > > > > > > > Disconnect the ignition wires from the spark plugs and lay them > aside. > > > > Remove all of the spark plugs. > > > > > > > > Rotate the engine using the prop until you either get tired or you > get > > > > a pressure indication. > > > > > > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 809hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J2j3h4(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer and setting that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost certainly not get the correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for temperature and humidity. The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this correction made. For an explanation see _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerf(at)gerf.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first opportunity ... __g__ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: "Stan Jones" <stan.jones(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: RE: 6/6A getting in and out
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but obviously not a humidity sensor. The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet .. g > > If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > and setting > that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > certainly not get the > correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > temperature and humidity. > The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > correction made. For an explanation see > _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > > Jim Hasper > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > gerf(at)gerf.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 25, 2006
All he is saying is that there is a difference between barometric pressure and altimeter setting. The original poster used the term barometer. If he read a barometer, and it was at 29.92, then the altimeter setting would almost certainly have been something other than 29.92. For example, if the pressure was as per the standard atmosphere, the altimeter setting would be 29.92. The barometric pressure at sea level would be 29.92 in HG. The barometric pressure at 66 ft would be 29.85 in HG. So, if the barometric pressure at 66 ft was actually 29.92, that implies the pressure was higher than standard, and the altimeter setting would be greater than 29.92. Note: the weather folks also publish barometric pressures which are the station pressure, corrected to sea level. But even these values are not the same as an altimeter setting. The difference between the station pressure corrected to sea level and the altimeter setting will depend on the air density, which also depends on the temperature and humidity, as mentioned earlier. I'm hoping the original poster actually used an altimeter setting, and that it came from a credible source (e.g. a control tower). If it came from a less credible source, then the altimeter setting may have been in error. Kevin Horton On 25 Sep 2006, at 20:00, Gerry Filby wrote: > > > Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those > corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but > obviously not a humidity sensor. > > The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet > .. > > g > >> >> If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer >> and setting >> that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost >> certainly not get the >> correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for >> temperature and humidity. >> The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this >> correction made. For an explanation see >> _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ >> (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) >> >> Jim Hasper >> >> >> >> In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >> gerf(at)gerf.com writes: >> >> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >> >> >> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm >> building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the >> official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of >> Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback >> instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first >> flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ >> >> I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first >> opportunity ... >> >> __g__ >> >> Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Olen Goodwin" <ogoodwin(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 25, 2006
You have to remember that there is a tolerance for altimeters...even in jet transports with two or more altimeters, there will be a difference. With the new glass cockpits and computerized instruments that may not be as true as with the old baro altimeters. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com> Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 3:42 PM Subject: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > ========================================================= > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Sep 25, 2006
The original poster was I :-) The pressure - 29.92 - was read off a digital weather station located on the field at 66 feet ASL (my personal one, nothing to do with the airfield). I was reasoning that since I was more-or-less at sea level (66 feet ASL) and the barometer was reading 29.92, this must be a "standard pressure" day ... therefore the altimeters should be reading the actual altitude of the field - 66 feet. The Dynon EFIS read 62 feet and the steam gauge read minus 20 - thus the steam gauge is almost 90 feet out. I think ... ~(:-|) g > > > All he is saying is that there is a difference between barometric > pressure and altimeter setting. The original poster used the term > barometer. If he read a barometer, and it was at 29.92, then the > altimeter setting would almost certainly have been something other > than 29.92. For example, if the pressure was as per the standard > atmosphere, the altimeter setting would be 29.92. The barometric > pressure at sea level would be 29.92 in HG. The barometric pressure > at 66 ft would be 29.85 in HG. So, if the barometric pressure at 66 > ft was actually 29.92, that implies the pressure was higher than > standard, and the altimeter setting would be greater than 29.92. > > Note: the weather folks also publish barometric pressures which are > the station pressure, corrected to sea level. But even these values > are not the same as an altimeter setting. The difference between the > station pressure corrected to sea level and the altimeter setting > will depend on the air density, which also depends on the temperature > and humidity, as mentioned earlier. > > I'm hoping the original poster actually used an altimeter setting, > and that it came from a credible source (e.g. a control tower). If > it came from a less credible source, then the altimeter setting may > have been in error. > > Kevin Horton > > On 25 Sep 2006, at 20:00, Gerry Filby wrote: > > > > > > > Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those > > corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but > > obviously not a humidity sensor. > > > > The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet > > .. > > > > g > > > >> > >> If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > >> and setting > >> that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > >> certainly not get the > >> correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > >> temperature and humidity. > >> The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > >> correction made. For an explanation see > >> _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > >> (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > >> > >> Jim Hasper > >> > >> > >> > >> In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > >> gerf(at)gerf.com writes: > >> > >> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > >> > >> > >> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > >> building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > >> official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > >> Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > >> instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > >> flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > >> > >> I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > >> opportunity ... > >> > >> __g__ > >> > >> > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > > > > > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steven DiNieri" <capsteve(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: RV-List :transition training
Date: Sep 26, 2006
I'm trying to find a pilot/plane capable of giving transition training (rv-6a) in the northeast. New York, Albany area .. I've a friend who needs a signoff before he can be covered by his insurance co. I've checked vans and reeves website and the ones that are listed all reside south of the mason - Dixon line..... Can a regular cfi give a signoff in a customers own aircraft???? Thx Steve 40205 -- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: J2j3h4(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The following is a quote from the Dynon Forum: GPS altitudes will not necessarily compare to barometric altitudes. They will only be the same if the atmosphere is at standard temperature all the way from the ground to the test altitude, which is never the case. While it is quite possible that your mechanical altimeter DOES have an error, you won't know that until you set it using a corrected barometer reading from an FAA weather report. Even if you were AT sea level, you still wouldn't have a standard reading unless the temperature and humidity were also at standard conditions. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 7:03:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerf(at)gerf.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but obviously not a humidity sensor. The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet .. g > > If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > and setting > that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > certainly not get the > correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > temperature and humidity. > The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > correction made. For an explanation see > _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > > Jim Hasper > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > gerf(at)gerf.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 25, 2006
From: Jerry Springer <jsflyrv(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: RV-List :transition training
Steven DiNieri wrote: > > I'm trying to find a pilot/plane capable of giving transition >training (rv-6a) in the northeast. New York, Albany area .. > I've a friend who needs a signoff before he can be covered by his >insurance co. I've checked vans and reeves website and the ones that are >listed all reside south of the mason - Dixon line..... > > Can a regular cfi give a signoff in a customers own aircraft???? > >Thx >Steve >40205 > > > > yes but you need to make sure he is familiar with RV's first ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Ah. Sorry about the confusion. Let's assume that your digital weather station is accurate. Does it correct for field elevation, or does it provide a raw barometric pressure? If it is providing a raw barometric pressure, then a reading of 29.92 represents the pressure you would expect to see at sea level on a standard day. If you put in an altimeter setting of 29.92, you have just told your altimeter that the pressure at the field elevation is the same as a standard day at that altitude. So, the altimeter is seeing a pressure of 29.92, and it should display sea level (0 ft), as that is the altitude at which the pressure would be 29.92, on a standard day. In this case your steam driven altimeter is closer than the Dynon. If your weather station corrects for field elevation, then the Dynon is probably closer than the steam driven one. But, both altimeters have means to adjust them to correct for small errors. The Dynon has a setup menu item, and the steam driven altimeter has a way to change the relationship between altitude and altimeter setting. These small errors will be corrected when you have your static system check done. Kevin On 25 Sep 2006, at 23:02, Gerry Filby wrote: > > > The original poster was I :-) > > The pressure - 29.92 - was read off a digital weather station > located on the field at 66 feet ASL (my personal one, nothing > to do with the airfield). I was reasoning that since I was > more-or-less at sea level (66 feet ASL) and the barometer was > reading 29.92, this must be a "standard pressure" day ... > therefore the altimeters should be reading the actual altitude > of the field - 66 feet. The Dynon EFIS read 62 feet and the > steam gauge read minus 20 - thus the steam gauge is almost 90 > feet out. I think ... ~(:-|) > > g > > >> >> >> All he is saying is that there is a difference between barometric >> pressure and altimeter setting. The original poster used the term >> barometer. If he read a barometer, and it was at 29.92, then the >> altimeter setting would almost certainly have been something other >> than 29.92. For example, if the pressure was as per the standard >> atmosphere, the altimeter setting would be 29.92. The barometric >> pressure at sea level would be 29.92 in HG. The barometric pressure >> at 66 ft would be 29.85 in HG. So, if the barometric pressure at 66 >> ft was actually 29.92, that implies the pressure was higher than >> standard, and the altimeter setting would be greater than 29.92. >> >> Note: the weather folks also publish barometric pressures which are >> the station pressure, corrected to sea level. But even these values >> are not the same as an altimeter setting. The difference between the >> station pressure corrected to sea level and the altimeter setting >> will depend on the air density, which also depends on the temperature >> and humidity, as mentioned earlier. >> >> I'm hoping the original poster actually used an altimeter setting, >> and that it came from a credible source (e.g. a control tower). If >> it came from a less credible source, then the altimeter setting may >> have been in error. >> >> Kevin Horton >> >> On 25 Sep 2006, at 20:00, Gerry Filby wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those >>> corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but >>> obviously not a humidity sensor. >>> >>> The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet >>> .. >>> >>> g >>> >>>> >>>> If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer >>>> and setting >>>> that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost >>>> certainly not get the >>>> correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for >>>> temperature and humidity. >>>> The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has >>>> this >>>> correction made. For an explanation see >>>> _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ >>>> (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) >>>> >>>> Jim Hasper >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>>> gerf(at)gerf.com writes: >>>> >>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>>> >>>> >>>> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm >>>> building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the >>>> official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of >>>> Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback >>>> instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first >>>> flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ >>>> >>>> I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first >>>> opportunity ... >>>> >>>> __g__ >>>> >>>> >> >> Kevin Horton >> Ottawa, Canada >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > -- > __g__ > > ========================================================= > Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: Pascal GROELL <pgroell(at)chello.fr>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Just to add a bit more. It would have been interesting to make a reading by having the altimeter set to the QNH. The QNH being the pressure you have to set on the altimeter to read the field's altitude on the altimeter. (the QNH being rarely if never equal to the real sea level pressure due to the difference in density between the ideal standard atmosphere between sea level and the airport and the real atmosphere we have out there). By being not to precise one could say that your QNH whas around 29.92 + 0.06 (for 66ft) : 29.98. By tuning the altimeter to 29.98 your reading would have gone up around 66ft (all this is not exactly exact due to density adjustments no being taken into account)and I concurr with Kevin the mechanical altimeter would have been nearer to the real altitude than the Dynon. To finish two remarks : - on my big aircraft (Airbus A330 and A340) the tolerance is +- 25ft between normal altimeters on the ground and +-200ft between those altimeters and standby altimeter. - it is quite difficult to understand how altimeters truly work, but try to be aware that this is a very "tricky" instrument, using a standard table for reference when the atmosphere is never standard. And we use settings which are sometimes not fully understood (QNH shows the airports altitude when set on the altimeter and aircraft on the ground, in France we sometimes use QFE which shows 0 when set on the altimeter and aircraft on ground). Those settings are correlated to measured barometric pressure but are obtained after some calculation or reading in a table. For example you can try to solve the following little puzzle : two airfields are only a few miles apart. Field A altitude is 275ft, field B altitude is 1900ft. Temperature throughout the whole atmosphere is ISA + 20 Celsius. QNH at A is 30,47 inHg. What would the QNH be at field B? Same as in A, more or less? Pascal Kevin Horton a crit : > > Ah. Sorry about the confusion. > > Let's assume that your digital weather station is accurate. Does it > correct for field elevation, or does it provide a raw barometric > pressure? If it is providing a raw barometric pressure, then a > reading of 29.92 represents the pressure you would expect to see at > sea level on a standard day. If you put in an altimeter setting of > 29.92, you have just told your altimeter that the pressure at the > field elevation is the same as a standard day at that altitude. So, > the altimeter is seeing a pressure of 29.92, and it should display sea > level (0 ft), as that is the altitude at which the pressure would be > 29.92, on a standard day. In this case your steam driven altimeter is > closer than the Dynon. > > If your weather station corrects for field elevation, then the Dynon > is probably closer than the steam driven one. > > But, both altimeters have means to adjust them to correct for small > errors. The Dynon has a setup menu item, and the steam driven > altimeter has a way to change the relationship between altitude and > altimeter setting. These small errors will be corrected when you have > your static system check done. > > Kevin > > > On 25 Sep 2006, at 23:02, Gerry Filby wrote: > >> >> >> The original poster was I :-) >> >> The pressure - 29.92 - was read off a digital weather station >> located on the field at 66 feet ASL (my personal one, nothing >> to do with the airfield). I was reasoning that since I was >> more-or-less at sea level (66 feet ASL) and the barometer was >> reading 29.92, this must be a "standard pressure" day ... >> therefore the altimeters should be reading the actual altitude >> of the field - 66 feet. The Dynon EFIS read 62 feet and the >> steam gauge read minus 20 - thus the steam gauge is almost 90 >> feet out. I think ... ~(:-|) >> >> g >> >> >>> >>> >>> All he is saying is that there is a difference between barometric >>> pressure and altimeter setting. The original poster used the term >>> barometer. If he read a barometer, and it was at 29.92, then the >>> altimeter setting would almost certainly have been something other >>> than 29.92. For example, if the pressure was as per the standard >>> atmosphere, the altimeter setting would be 29.92. The barometric >>> pressure at sea level would be 29.92 in HG. The barometric pressure >>> at 66 ft would be 29.85 in HG. So, if the barometric pressure at 66 >>> ft was actually 29.92, that implies the pressure was higher than >>> standard, and the altimeter setting would be greater than 29.92. >>> >>> Note: the weather folks also publish barometric pressures which are >>> the station pressure, corrected to sea level. But even these values >>> are not the same as an altimeter setting. The difference between the >>> station pressure corrected to sea level and the altimeter setting >>> will depend on the air density, which also depends on the temperature >>> and humidity, as mentioned earlier. >>> >>> I'm hoping the original poster actually used an altimeter setting, >>> and that it came from a credible source (e.g. a control tower). If >>> it came from a less credible source, then the altimeter setting may >>> have been in error. >>> >>> Kevin Horton >>> >>> On 25 Sep 2006, at 20:00, Gerry Filby wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those >>>> corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but >>>> obviously not a humidity sensor. >>>> >>>> The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet >>>> .. >>>> >>>> g >>>> >>>>> >>>>> If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer >>>>> and setting >>>>> that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost >>>>> certainly not get the >>>>> correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for >>>>> temperature and humidity. >>>>> The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this >>>>> correction made. For an explanation see >>>>> _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ >>>>> (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) >>>>> >>>>> Jim Hasper >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, >>>>> gerf(at)gerf.com writes: >>>>> >>>>> --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm >>>>> building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the >>>>> official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of >>>>> Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback >>>>> instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first >>>>> flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ >>>>> >>>>> I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first >>>>> opportunity ... >>>>> >>>>> __g__ >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> Kevin Horton >>> Ottawa, Canada >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> --__g__ >> >> ========================================================= >> Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com >> ---------------------------------------------------------- >> >> >> >> >> > > Kevin Horton > Ottawa, Canada > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Custer" <ddcuster@wmv-co.us>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 26, 2006
The barometric altimeter "computes" the altitude using the correlation between air pressure and altitude; there are lots of opportunity for error. The GPS computes altitude based on the satellite information. The GPS should be real close to the actual elevation. Barometric altimeter error rapidly builds as it moves away (distance and time) from the corrected reporting station. That is why ATC or FS always gives you the closest reporting station altimeter reading when you contact them. Since the difference between your barometric altimeter and the GPS if fairly constant, I would suspect that there is some kind of mechanical error in the barometric altimeter. Aircraft altimeters coming out of the shop should be within some specified error. There has to be some tolerance. It is unusual to find any science based instrument with no error. The error should be small, however. Anyone out there know the tolerance for a VFR/IFR altimeter. I know it varies with the altitude. Doc Custer Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist Building RV9-A. Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: J2j3h4(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, September 25, 2006 11:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The following is a quote from the Dynon Forum: GPS altitudes will not necessarily compare to barometric altitudes. They will only be the same if the atmosphere is at standard temperature all the way from the ground to the test altitude, which is never the case. While it is quite possible that your mechanical altimeter DOES have an error, you won't know that until you set it using a corrected barometer reading from an FAA weather report. Even if you were AT sea level, you still wouldn't have a standard reading unless the temperature and humidity were also at standard conditions. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 7:03:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerf(at)gerf.com writes: Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but obviously not a humidity sensor. The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet .. g > > If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > and setting > that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > certainly not get the > correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > temperature and humidity. > The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > correction made. For an explanation see > _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > > Jim Hasper > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > gerf(at)gerf.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > -- __g__ ======== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - bsp; --> nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
J2j3h4(at)aol.com wrote: > > I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The Dynon does not use GPS for any of its calculations. It has pressure transducers for both altimeter and airspeed solutions. Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: UFOBUCK(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
In a message dated 9/26/2006 9:16:50 A.M. Central Daylight Time, Kearney(at)shaw.ca writes: .....To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables ..... There is an EAA regulation to the size of my work benches ???? This is getting too complicated. %-) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: "Lockamy, Jack L" <jack.lockamy(at)navy.mil>
Gerry, Before the first flight in my RV-7A, I had the airspeed indicator, altimeter and transponder checked for IFR tolerances. The Dynon EFIS-D10 was right-on altitude and within 2-3 KTS accuracy on airspeed from S/L up to 40KFT. The mechanic doing the certification test was extremely impressed with the accuracy of the Dynon EFIS-D10. You can also adjust the Dynon altimeter up/down in 10 foot increments to correct any errors that may be present. Mine is set at "0" and is nuts on.... The same can not be said for the Van's/UMA back-up steam gauges I installed. The airspeed indicator has a 10 KT fast error that can not be adjusted. The altimeter was over 300 FT off but CAN be adjusted. There is a small screw just left of the adjustment knob on the altimeter. If I remember correctly, I adjusted the altimeter to the known field elevation, loosen the screw, then turn the adjustment knob to the correct barometric reading (ie. 29.92, etc.) in the window. Once the field elevation and the current barometric reading are both correct.... tighten the adjustment screw and you are good to go... Jack Lockamy RV-7A N174JL (240 hrs) Camarillo, CA www.jacklockamy.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: "D.Bristol" <dbris200(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
The altitude that the air traffic system uses is based on the air pressure that is measured by the barometric altimeter, not on the true altitude that you get from GPS. When ATC tells you to fly at 8000 feet, they're talking about pressure altitude, not actual altitude. So, unless the GPS altitude is somehow corrected for pressure, you'll be at the wrong altitude when using the GPS altimeter. Dave EAA Technical Counselor Doc Custer wrote: > The barometric altimeter "computes" the altitude using the correlation > between air pressure and altitude; there are lots of opportunity for > error. The GPS computes altitude based on the satellite information. > The GPS should be real close to the actual elevation. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Amit Dagan" <amitdagan(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Calculate altimeter setting from barometric pressure.
Date: Sep 26, 2006
// convert the sensed pressure to the altimeter setting: // // http://www.srh.noaa.gov/elp/wxcalc/formulas/altimeterSetting.html // // Alt = (p - 0.3) * (1 + K * (h / (p - 0.3)^^E))^^(1.0 / E) // E = 0.190284; // K = 1013.25^^E * 0.0065 / 288 = 8.4229e-5 // // where // // p = station pressure in millibars // h = station elevation in meters // Alt will be in millibars. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Here you go http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2%20Manual%20&%20Drawings.pdf Bob Collins RV Builder's Hotline http://home.comcast.net/~rvnewsletter/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
Les, This is the table I made. The EAA tables are level with adn suppor the work. Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: carlos <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
LES KEARNEY wrote: > > Hi > > In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. > > Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? > > Many thanks > > Les > > RV10 Wannabe > > > > Here you go. http://www.experimentalaero.com/DRDT-2%20Manual%20&%20Drawings.pdf Carlos RV7A N174PP "Pretty Penny" -- Carlos Hernandez Structural Engineers, LLC 2111 E. Broadway Rd. - Suite 3 Tempe, AZ 85282 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Here is a copy of the plans you will get from Experimentalaero when you purchase your DRDT-2 Dan 40269 (N289DT) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of LES KEARNEY Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:13 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: lessdragprod(at)aol.com
There are three different altitudes commonly used in aviation. 1.) Below 18,000' the station pressure is used to adjust the altimeter for local variations in pressure. 2.) Above 18.000' a pressure setting of 29.92 is used. This is also called the pressure altitude. 3.) Density altitude. The pressure altitude can be adjusted for the OAT to obtain the density altitude. The Dynon with an OAT can provide the density altitude readout. Density altitude is used for performance flight testing. (Station altitude and pressure altitude, by themselves, are useless for performance testing.) I understand that GPS horizontal position is supposed to be accurate within 60 feet. And the vertical position is less accurate. Our pilot training provided a common altimeter base so we would be likely to have the same altitude reference while flying. Doing flight performance testing at a fixed density altitude can be interesting, since the station altitude can be 2,000' different. Regards, Jim Ayers -----Original Message----- From: J2j3h4(at)aol.com Sent: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 10:31 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS I believe the Dynon is determining altitude by GPS. The following is a quote from the Dynon Forum: GPS altitudes will not necessarily compare to barometric altitudes. They will only be the same if the atmosphere is at standard temperature all the way from the ground to the test altitude, which is never the case. While it is quite possible that your mechanical altimeter DOES have an error, you won't know that until you set it using a corrected barometer reading from an FAA weather report. Even if you were AT sea level, you still wouldn't have a standard reading unless the temperature and humidity were also at standard conditions. Jim Hasper In a message dated 9/25/2006 7:03:03 P.M. Central Daylight Time, gerf(at)gerf.com writes: Hmm, so you're suggesting that the Dynon is making those corrections ? It does have an OAT temperature sensor, but obviously not a humidity sensor. The two instruments have consistently differed by about 80 feet .. g > > If you are just taking the reading from a physical barometer > and setting > that in the window of your steam gauge, you will almost > certainly not get the > correct altitude. That reading must be corrected for > temperature and humidity. > The reading you get from AWOS or other FAA weather source has this > correction made. For an explanation see > _http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html_ > (http://www.exploratorium.edu/weather/barometer.html) > > Jim Hasper > > > > In a message dated 9/25/2006 4:45:42 P.M. Central Daylight Time, > gerf(at)gerf.com writes: > > --> RV-List message posted by: Gerry Filby > > > At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm > building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the > official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of > Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback > instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first > flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ > > I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first > opportunity ... > > __g__ > > -- __g__ ================================= Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - bsp; --> nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Engine pre-heat & cell phone
From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net
Anybody use a cell phone to turn on a timer at the hanger? I would like to use this to start the engine pre-heater. Internet is not a option in this WWII hanger. Thanks Steve RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Gerry, I use to be an instrument instructor in the Army for helicopter pilots. Our rule was if the "K" factor was 7 or less, to note it on our flight plan and apply that correction factor to any barrometric reading while in flight. 29.75 +,- .07 is an example of acceptable. More than the 7 points was reason to have the altimeter replaced. Of course this is only my opinion and is for my use only as a disclaimer. Jim Nelson ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doc Custer" <ddcuster@wmv-co.us>
Subject: Re: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Good to know. Doc Custer Retired software engineer and sometime Audiologist Building RV9-A. Fuselage ----- Original Message ----- From: D.Bristol To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:34 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS The altitude that the air traffic system uses is based on the air pressure that is measured by the barometric altimeter, not on the true altitude that you get from GPS. When ATC tells you to fly at 8000 feet, they're talking about pressure altitude, not actual altitude. So, unless the GPS altitude is somehow corrected for pressure, you'll be at the wrong altitude when using the GPS altimeter. Dave EAA Technical Counselor Doc Custer wrote: The barometric altimeter "computes" the altitude using the correlation between air pressure and altitude; there are lots of opportunity for error. The GPS computes altitude based on the satellite information. The GPS should be real close to the actual elevation. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: What avionics checks are required pre-inspecction: ? (was: Van's
steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS)
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Sep 26, 2006
(Yikes ! No wonder people end up flying into the side of a mountain. Thanks for the heads up on the available adjustment - that's helpfull.) Can anyone point me in the right direction for a list of the (certified?) avionics checks that have to be done and documented before I call over the DAR ? I'm flying VFR, but I'd happily go the extra mile and come up to IFR standard just for the safety margin. Thx g > Gerry, > > Before the first flight in my RV-7A, I had the airspeed > indicator, altimeter and transponder checked for IFR > tolerances. The Dynon EFIS-D10 was right-on altitude and within > 2-3 KTS accuracy on airspeed from S/L up to 40KFT. The > mechanic doing the certification test was extremely impressed > with the accuracy of the Dynon EFIS-D10. You can also adjust > the Dynon altimeter up/down in 10 foot increments to correct > any errors that may be present. Mine is set at "0" and is nuts > on.... > > The same can not be said for the Van's/UMA back-up steam gauges > I installed. The airspeed indicator has a 10 KT fast error > that can not be adjusted. The altimeter was over 300 FT off but > CAN be adjusted. There is a small screw just left of the > adjustment knob on the altimeter. If I remember correctly, I > adjusted the altimeter to the known field elevation, loosen the > screw, then turn the adjustment knob to the correct barometric > reading (ie. 29.92, etc.) in the window. Once the field > elevation and the current barometric reading are both > correct.... tighten the adjustment screw and you are good to > go... > > Jack Lockamy > RV-7A N174JL (240 hrs) > Camarillo, CA > www.jacklockamy.com > -- __g__ ========================================================== Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: What avionics checks are required pre-inspecction: ? (was:
Van's steam gauges versus Dynon EFIS)
Date: Sep 26, 2006
> Can anyone point me in the right direction for a list of the > (certified?) avionics checks that have to be done and > documented before I call over the DAR ? I'm flying VFR, but I'd > happily go the extra mile and come up to IFR standard just for > the safety margin. Gary Sobek has a good checklist on his AB-DAR web site: http://www.rvdar.com/ Click "What You Need" and you'll see what I mean. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Dickk9(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps
Jim try _www.mouser.com_ (http://www.mouser.com) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Registration/Certification
Group, I'm just now going thru the registration/ certification process, so here are a few "heads ups" I found. 1) Start the process 6 months before expected inspection date. FAA states 60-90 days just to process registration, which must be complete before inspection/certification. 2) Don't expect your local FSDO to know anything about registration. That is not their job. OTOH, don't expect anyone to answer the phone in OK City, all I got this morn was a busy signal, not even elevator music, so tried the FSDO which although sympathetic, could not answer questions about registration, only certification. 3) After putting both me and spouse's names on Bill of Sale from Van's, I wish I hadn't, raises questions about paperwork, which is why I needed to call FAA in the first place. 4) Read everything the EAA says about the process, they have a ton of stuff. FAA does also. 5) Van's can't tell you anything about the process, not their thing. 6) Find a fellow builder who has gone thru the process recently and have them review before you send the registration app to OK City. Thank you, Len Kaufmann... 7) One would just hate to wait 90 days, then have to do it all again because of an undotted "i" or sumpin'. 8) Now I'll just wait and hope. I think the FAA has some sort of tracking thing that lets you see how your paperwork is doing... 9) Did I mention "Start Early"? Regards, Jerry Cochran ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Van's gauges vs Dynon (ALTIMETRY)
OH MY GOSH! GPS has nothing to do with altimeter settings. First if your altimeter is with in 20 feet of field with local QNH (Baro setting from tower, atis or approved weather observer) YOU ARE DOING GREAT. IF you want to get rid of that altimeter send it to me, please, email me, I'll take it. The FAR limit is +/- 75 feet or 150 feet total spread. When comparing two altimeters, what ever temp or humidity errors there are, they are the same on both, so that washes out. In part 135 and 121 there are dual altimeter limits and they are set by the manufacture, but typically they can be as much as 100 to 150 feet, e.g., one can be 75 feet low and one 75 feet high from field. Small Part 91 GA planes don't have dual instrument requirement, unless fitted with an advance flight deck, for example RVSM (Reduced Vertical Separation Min from 2000' to 1000 from FL290-FL410). Bottom line it's the +/- 75 rule. ALSO where YOU really AT the field elevation ref point????? Airport elevation at the same field can be way different from one spot to another on the field. May be you where 20 feet lower than you thought and the mechanical altimeter was perfect and the dynon was off 22 feet or what ever? ALSO altimeters have non-linear error with altitude. It must be accurate within 75 feet when set on the ground, but it must also be accurate with 75 feet throughout. The error can very as you climb. An altimeter may be off 2 feet at sea level and 100 feet at FL180. That is why altimeters are bench tested throughout their range, not just at one altitude. Please, any one think GPS is used, read your flight manual on altimeters or write me. I am sure EFIS altimeters are just based just on corrected pressure, no magic. The Dynon comment just means it does not compensate for non standard conditions. GPS altitude can be very inaccurate based on the angles and position of the satellites. All you have to do is look at the altitudes your gps gives you. We fly INDICATED ALTITUDE. If it is a perfect standard day and atmosphere, than that is hight above MSL. However with non standard, pressures, lapse rate, temps and humidity we have errors that make use higher or lower from true MSL. That is why we have the old saying: FLY from HOT to COLD, HIGH to LOW, LOOK out BELOW. The biggest driver is pressure, than temp, than humidity. Humidity has the effect of making the air less dense. You are lower than you think based on indicated altitude, which is reading higher than normal or standard conditions. Thus every 100 nm reset your Kollsman window. Regardless all altimeters are set the same BARO or QNH (below FL180) or QNA (29.92 above FL180), so we are all on the same page. There are no special corrections by EFIS altimeters vs mechanical. THERE are special ATC and IFR procedures for extreme temps and pressures, but that is beyond the topic at hand, simple altimetry is all we have, which can be confusing. The original posters errors mean nothing. They are indeed both good and very acceptable. Their error may also change from day to day at different conditons, temps or field elevations. The electronic transducer in the dynon may have some temp compensation issues that might increase its error? Heep in mind the altimeter may be TSO'ed and the Dynon not. I have a Dynon BTW in a RV-7 so I like it and I do not use a back-up for VFR flight. Cheers George CFI-II-MEI, ATP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com> At one point this weekend the barometer at the field where I'm building was exactly 29.92 - the Dyon EFIS read 62 feet, the official field elevation is 66 feet. I also installed one of Van's "steam gauge" Altimeters - supposedly a fallback instrument if my wiring/plumbing goes belly up on the first flight. The steam gauge reads minus 20 feet :-\ I know which gauge will be junked out of my panel at the first opportunity ... __g__ ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larry Pardue <n5lp(at)warpdriveonline.com>
Subject: Re: Van's gauges vs Dynon (ALTIMETRY)
Date: Sep 26, 2006
On Sep 26, 2006, at 4:35 PM, wrote: > > > The Dynon comment just means it does not compensate for non > standard conditions. GPS altitude can be very inaccurate based on > the angles and position of the satellites. All you have to do is > look at the altitudes your gps gives you. > Well if you compare your GPS altitude to altimeter altitude it does vary. If I am flying I am going to use the altimeter and if I want to know the actual height of a mountain I am going to use GPS. These are different missions and each method has its strengths. Our aircraft altimeters are not good at all at telling us our actual height above sea level. This is because the atmospheric profile is rarely standard. If temperatures aloft are cold, we will be lower than the indication. It doesn't matter too much as long as we don't fly too close to the mountain. Note the required clearances for IFR flight. If for some reason I want to actually now how high I am, I will go with GPS. I check the automobile one at every marked elevation and rarely see an error of more than 20 feet. Really pretty extraordinary. Larry Pardue Carlsbad, NM RV-6 N441LP Flying http://n5lp.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Registration/Certification
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Well, you couldn't be more right. I just got my A/W today after a couple of weeks of wrangling. One issue is I moved since I registered the a/c and put my new address on the A/W application. In short - Don't. I got lucky and was able to backtrack. A friend attempted to get his done same time as I and as it turns out he put "Zenith" as the Manufacture. Don't make that mistake. I would ask your inspector to go over your paperwork at least 2 weeks prior to inspection to verify you have everything right before you submit it. Tim Bryan RV-6 N616TB soon to be amongst the flying _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry2DT(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 3:05 PM Subject: RV-List: Registration/Certification Group, I'm just now going thru the registration/ certification process, so here are a few "heads ups" I found. 1) Start the process 6 months before expected inspection date. FAA states 60-90 days just to process registration, which must be complete before inspection/certification. 2) Don't expect your local FSDO to know anything about registration. That is not their job. OTOH, don't expect anyone to answer the phone in OK City, all I got this morn was a busy signal, not even elevator music, so tried the FSDO which although sympathetic, could not answer questions about registration, only certification. 3) After putting both me and spouse's names on Bill of Sale from Van's, I wish I hadn't, raises questions about paperwork, which is why I needed to call FAA in the first place. 4) Read everything the EAA says about the process, they have a ton of stuff. FAA does also. 5) Van's can't tell you anything about the process, not their thing. 6) Find a fellow builder who has gone thru the process recently and have them review before you send the registration app to OK City. Thank you, Len Kaufmann... 7) One would just hate to wait 90 days, then have to do it all again because of an undotted "i" or sumpin'. 8) Now I'll just wait and hope. I think the FAA has some sort of tracking thing that lets you see how your paperwork is doing... 9) Did I mention "Start Early"? Regards, Jerry Cochran ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Governor/ Prop operation
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Hello Listers, My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? Thanks for any input Tim RV-6 N616TB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: DOUGPFLYRV(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Subject: Re: Rocker switches/Annunciator Lamps
Mark, this is where we bought our switches for the 7A & 10......very pleased. Doug Preston BHM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: davcor(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) -------------- Original message -------------- From: LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca> > > Hi > > In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy > getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work > tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. > > Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of > receiving my tool order? > > Many thanks > > Les > > RV10 Wannabe > > > > > >
Hi,

Many techniques to consider...

Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets.

A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins...

So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going...

Dave Cordner

RV7 - N898DC (rsvd)

center section joined, side skins drilled,

(fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^)
utilit ===== ====
>
>
>

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Governor/ Prop operation
Tim, Start checking connections... controls, oil lines, etc... Chuck Tim Bryan wrote: Hello Listers, My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? Thanks for any input Tim RV-6 N616TB --------------------------------- All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Governor/ Prop operation
Date: Sep 26, 2006
First let's hope for the b est. !0 out of 10 people I know have had the same problem. It is typical for the first cycle of the prop/gov. Apparently the oil doesn't get up to the prop unless you "cycle it three times." So first thing go back out and run it up and pull that sucker out, count to two, then do it again. The third time is the charm. If that don't work get advice from someone else; however it has worked for every case I know of. Cheers Denis Walsh On Sep 26, 2006, at 07:11 690820009, Tim Bryan wrote: > > > Hello Listers, > > My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled > it plus > taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I > cycle > the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? > > Thanks for any input > Tim > RV-6 > N616TB > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: Engine pre-heat & cell phone
I haven't used it but here it is, look at the remote on/off switch: http://www.reiffpreheat.com/product.htm My new email address: bobbyhester(at)charter.net Surfing the Web from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my web site at: http://www.geocities.com/hester-hoptown/RVSite/ RV7A N857BH SB wings-QB Fuse-XPO360 engine :-) sjhdcl(at)kingston.net wrote: > >Anybody use a cell phone to turn on a timer at the hanger? I would like >to use this to start the engine pre-heater. > >Internet is not a option in this WWII hanger. > >Thanks >Steve >RV7A > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Les, I built two of the EAA work tables and am very happy with them. I built the DRDT-2 table from the plans that came with the DRDT-2 and it is great. Here is a photo of the DRDT-2 table. [URL=http://img87.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img0652jd6.jpg][IMG] http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/88/img0652jd6.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Regards, David Maib #40559 On Sep 26, 2006, at 9:13 AM, LES KEARNEY wrote: Hi In anticipation of ordering an empennage kit on Tuesday next, I have been busy getting my workspace ready. To that end I have built two regulation EAA work tables and now would like to build a table / stand for a DRDT-2 dimplier. Does anyone have plans for such a beast so I can build the table in advance of receiving my tool order? Many thanks Les RV10 Wannabe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor(at)comcast.net To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== ==== > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor(at)comcast.net To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== === > > > com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 26, 2006
From: LES KEARNEY <Kearney(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Hi Dan I have just spent a couple of hours wandering throgh your website. You have some very cool photo's, tips, hints and links. I am planning an RV10 QB but your comments on SB vs QB have given me pause. When I visit Van's next week for a demo flight I plan to have a serious chat with them about QB kits vs SB kits. Cheers Les Kearney RV10 Wannabe ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
I use my c-frame to rivet with the gun as well. Learned from Wally Anderson at Synergy Air in his Fundamentals of Building class. David Maib RV-10 #40559 On Sep 26, 2006, at 10:25 PM, DonVS wrote: Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/ attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C- frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead- blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== === > > > com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_- ============================================================ _- forums.matronics.com_- ============================================================ _- ============================================================ _- =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
Wow. I think you might potentially be doing damage to the rivet gun. If the piston in the rivet gun isn't impacting the shaft directly, it could easily split and jam the gun. Just as we were taught "never fire a rivet gun into the air," the reason is because the piston goes slamming into the end of the cylinder and can literally shatter. If the piston is really hitting the dimpling shaft then disregard...but be careful, it could trash an expensive tool. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: DonVS To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor(at)comcast.net To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== ==== > > > com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DonVS" <dsvs(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table
Date: Sep 26, 2006
I reported one thing wrong. The shaft is shaped just like a rivet set made for the gun. Avery claims that the shaft is for use with a gun. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:49 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Wow. I think you might potentially be doing damage to the rivet gun. If the piston in the rivet gun isn't impacting the shaft directly, it could easily split and jam the gun. Just as we were taught "never fire a rivet gun into the air," the reason is because the piston goes slamming into the end of the cylinder and can literally shatter. If the piston is really hitting the dimpling shaft then disregard...but be careful, it could trash an expensive tool. )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: DonVS To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:25 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dan, I use my c frame to rivet with the gun as well. It came with a shaft that has one flat end and one for rivet sets. The flat end fits in my rivet gun and works just fine. Don -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Checkoway Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 8:13 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor(at)comcast.net To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== === > > > com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: davcor(at)comcast.net
Subject: hammer? no no no it was the gun
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Dan, This is the pic from your CD that got me going... Forgive the novel... I took the same shaft and used a transfer punch to mark the center. To do this I took some 3" tape, wrapped (sticky side out) around the end, used the nearest diameter punch, whack! I then put the shaft in a machinist vice (held vertical in "v" groove), went to the drill press and drilled a pilot hole, and snuck up on the shaft size of the die. I'm going to make another, or see if I can get a longer shaft from Bob Avery maybe talk him into making it for me. Nah, I'll just order it and ask around at the chapter to see if someone has a lathe. I have the little taig lathe like Tom Emery's but it's just too small, the shaft will not got theough the chuck-race. Ok, nomenclature nomenclature I know, the hole that goes therough the chuck... Bottom line, I need to do a more precise job as the die is a little offset. When I wrote 45 min, it was actually faster. The compressor is 20' from the final filter & reg. The reg at the compressor was at 30#, The hose from the final filter was about 20' too so I'm estimating that I had 20# at the gun, was pretty quiet. I locked the collar onto the shaft, spring under the colar. need/want about 2" more on the shaft. Works great! Dimples are crisp and all the same. Center section skin looked great till I couldn't wait for a helper and rivited the skin myself in a couple hrs. Tried backriveting with a dumbell bucking bar, but ended up just using the swivel set and a "T" shaped bucking bar underneath. Oh well, when I was worrying about my rudder, I looked at one of the Vans planes at a Colorado fly-in. I got on the ground and was eyeballing the line looking up. I think it was Scott who walked over and said, 'I know what you're looking at, don't worry about it, just press on. And besides if you get too close and personal like this with other builders planes, ya might get your fingers stepped on'. Anyhow, given that I have a few of these spots, I'm toying with getting a (very) small decal made that says 'Caution, if you can read this, you're too close, the builder/owner is about to step on your hand' ;^) Dave 719.660.6665 (cell) if you want to talk it over rather than just email tag -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> Dave, Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame. FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D "Priorities" www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: davcor(at)comcast.net Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table Hi, Many techniques to consider... Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets. A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins... So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going... Dave Cordner RV7 - N898DC (rsvd) center section joined, side skins drilled, (fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^) utilit ====== ==== > > > com/Navigator?RV-List
Dan,

This is the pic from your CD that got me going...

Forgive the novel...

I took the same shaft and used a transfer punch to mark the center. To do this I took some 3" tape, wrapped (sticky side out) around the end, used the nearest diameter punch, whack! I then put the shaft in a machinist vice (held vertical in "v" groove), went to the drill press and drilled a pilot hole, and snuck up on the shaft size of the die.

I'm going to make another, or see if I can get a longer shaft from Bob Avery maybe talk him into making it for me. Nah, I'll just order it and ask around at the chapter to see if someone has a lathe. I have the little taig lathe like Tom Emery's but it's just too small, the shaft will not got theough the chuck-race. Ok, nomenclature nomenclature I know, the hole that goes therough the chuck...

Bottom line, I need to do a more precise job as the die is a little offset.

When I wrote 45 min, it was actually faster.

The compressor is 20' from the final filter & reg. The reg at the compressor was at 30#, The hose from the final filter was about 20' too so I'm estimating that I had 20# at the gun, was pretty quiet.

I locked the collar onto the shaft, spring under the colar. need/want about 2" more on the shaft.

Works great! Dimples are crisp and all the same. Center section skin looked great till I couldn't wait for a helper and rivited the skin myself in a couple hrs. Tried backriveting with a dumbell bucking bar, but ended up just using the swivel set and a "T" shaped bucking bar underneath.

Oh well, when I was worrying about my rudder, I looked at one of the Vans planes at a Colorado fly-in. I got on the ground and was eyeballing the line looking up. I think it was Scott who walked over and said, 'I know what you're looking at, don't worry about it, just press on. And besides if you get too close and personal like this with other builders planes, ya might get your fingers stepped on'.

Anyhow, given that I have a few of these spots, I'm toying with getting a (very) small decal made that says 'Caution, if you can read this, you're too close, the builder/owner is about to step on your hand' ;^)

Dave

719.660.6665 (cell) if you want to talk it over rather than just email tag

Dave,

Are you using your rivet gun to dimple with the C-frame? Which shaft/attachment are you using? Please enlighten me... ;-) I do use my C-frame to rivet, but only with the shaft that has the flush/solid end...and only with a hammer (so far!). Interested in finding out your method with the rivet gun & C-frame.

FWIW, I would love to have a DRDT-2. Maybe for my next project I'll buy one if the budget permits.

)_( Dan

RV-7 N714D "Priorities"

www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com

----- Original Message -----

From: davcor(at)comcast.net

To: rv-list(at)matronics.com

Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 6:35 PM

Subject: RV-List: But wait...Re: DRDT-2 Table

Hi,

Many techniques to consider...

Ya know, I wish I had paid more attention to Dan Checkoway's web contents as I watched him finish his plane. Then I bought his CD and reviewed as I was building, when I got to the centersection prep steps, Dan has a great picture showing the rivet gun and C-Frame to buck a few rivets.

A few weeks later as I needed to dimple the centersection bottom skins, dreading getting my elbow fired up again (swinging the dead-blow), I said... I wonder... dimpled the scenter section in 45 min! I wish I knew this when I dimpled the wing skins...

So while I lusted after the DRDT-2 as being obviously easier on the elbow, the C-Frame works great, set the air down, use two hands to move the skin in-progress, one-hand reach and pull the trigger... ya can get a real rhythm going...

Dave Cordner

RV7 - N898DC (rsvd)

center section joined, side skins drilled,

(fast) dimple party on skins this weekend ;^)
utilit ====== ====
>
>
>
com/Navigator?RV-List

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2006
From: "David Schaefer" <n142ds(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06
Has anyone else seen this AD from Hartzell? As I read it, it applies to the HC-C2YR-1BF/F7496 props we purchased from Vans and is an inspection of the front hub to look for cracks that apparently resulted in a blade seperation from an aircraft. This appears to be an expensive, repetitive AD requiring eddy testing etc. Can one of our A&Ps check into this? Thanks... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Geek One" www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Hi, I've looked up the AD, the AD states : ( )HC-( )2Y( )-( ) series propellers with non- suffix serial number (SN) propeller hubs installed on Lycoming O-, IO-, LO-, and AEIO-360 series reciprocating engines. The Vans props do have the suffix:" -1BF", this should mean that the props from Vans are exempt from this AD. It is somewhat confusing due to the manner the model number is given as there are two positions for the suffix. An interesting note on the side for haa haa's, the proposal docket lists an aplicability list at the bottom and the Robinson R22 is listed!! ----- Original Message ----- From: David Schaefer To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06 Has anyone else seen this AD from Hartzell? As I read it, it applies to the HC-C2YR-1BF/F7496 props we purchased from Vans and is an inspection of the front hub to look for cracks that apparently resulted in a blade seperation from an aircraft. This appears to be an expensive, repetitive AD requiring eddy testing etc. Can one of our A&Ps check into this? Thanks... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Geek One" www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06
Date: Sep 27, 2006
HI again, the props from Van's are not HC- but C- , this is not covered by this AD. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Schaefer To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06 Has anyone else seen this AD from Hartzell? As I read it, it applies to the HC-C2YR-1BF/F7496 props we purchased from Vans and is an inspection of the front hub to look for cracks that apparently resulted in a blade seperation from an aircraft. This appears to be an expensive, repetitive AD requiring eddy testing etc. Can one of our A&Ps check into this? Thanks... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Geek One" www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Incorrect. The props from Van's are: HC C2YL-1BF HC C2YK-1BF HC C2YR-1BF The AD applies. Check your serial number. The A and B hub have A or B after the serial number. Gary A. Sobek A&P DAR "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,951 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com> Subject: Re: RV-List: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06 Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 10:23:00 +0100 HI again, the props from Van's are not HC- but C- , this is not covered by this AD. ----- Original Message ----- From: David Schaefer To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 6:39 AM Subject: RV-List: Hartzell AD 2006-18-15 09/25/06 Has anyone else seen this AD from Hartzell? As I read it, it applies to the HC-C2YR-1BF/F7496 props we purchased from Vans and is an inspection of the front hub to look for cracks that apparently resulted in a blade seperation from an aircraft. This appears to be an expensive, repetitive AD requiring eddy testing etc. Can one of our A&Ps check into this? Thanks... -- David W. Schaefer RV-6A N142DS "Geek One" www.n142ds.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Engine pre-heat & cell phone
From: "N395V" <n395v(at)hughes.net>
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Contact Chris at cschuerm(at)cox.net -------- Milt N395V F1 Rocket Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64227#64227 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Thomas Phy" <thomphy(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 09/26/06
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Hey Tim, First, Congrat's on getting the airworthy cert! Now, for the prop. Do you know for sure that you have a hollow crankshaft? One of our local chapter members, had the same problem. Signed off, ready to fly, can't cycle the prop!!!! Did every check known to man, only to find out the engine guys put the wrong crankshaft in his engine!!! R&R engine, replaced crankshaft, and the prop now cycles just fine. Hope that's not your case. But you have to pull the prop to make sure. Thomas Phy RV-7 rotary > Hello Listers, > > My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus > taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle > the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? > > Thanks for any input > Tim > RV-6 > N616TB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 09/26/06
Tim, I am not an expert, but here's how I'd approach the problem. First I would give it plenty of time. The first cycle takes maybe 15 seconds to fill the prop. Go to at least 1800 RPM to be sure you're within the range of the prop/governor. Go to 2000 if that doesn't work. If that doesn't cause the prop to cycle, then I would put a pressure gauge in the prop line. My governor adaptor has a plug where this could be done. I would use 1/8 inch copper tubing to a 500 psi gauge into the cockpit. I don't know what the pressure should be exactly, maybe 150 psi or so. Perhaps someone else on the list knows. Or, a call to Hartzell would probably get you an answer. If you have pressure and the prop doesn't increase pitch and slow the engine RPM, then maybe Thomas is right -- the crank is wrong, or not set up for constant speed. Does it have a soft plug installed for a fixed pitch? Do you remember what the crankshaft looked like before you installed the prop? Best wishes, and let us know what you find out. Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 9/27/2006 11:18:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, thomphy(at)msn.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Thomas Phy" Hey Tim, First, Congrat's on getting the airworthy cert! Now, for the prop. Do you know for sure that you have a hollow crankshaft? One of our local chapter members, had the same problem. Signed off, ready to fly, can't cycle the prop!!!! Did every check known to man, only to find out the engine guys put the wrong crankshaft in his engine!!! R&R engine, replaced crankshaft, and the prop now cycles just fine. Hope that's not your case. But you have to pull the prop to make sure. Thomas Phy RV-7 rotary > Hello Listers, > > My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus > taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle > the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? > > Thanks for any input > Tim > RV-6 > N616TB ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Re: RV-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 09/26/06
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Thanks all for the input on this prop issue. I will be checking it out further when I get back in town on Saturday. This morning I went to do this, but had a dead battery. Building took it's toll on it so now I get to have a new one. I am a tail wheel guy so I will not allow the plane to go over on its nose. I can tie it down if need be. As I remember, the crank had a red plastic plug stuck in it when it arrived from Aero Sport. I removed it and installed the prop. I am pretty sure I would have noticed if they had a hard plug in there, but if I can't get it to go then I will remove the prop to double check. I did hear it after a couple of times cycle start to drop the RPM, but it wasn't as much as I was expecting. It must be getting at least some oil. Anyway, I will update the list Saturday afternoon when I get a chance to check it with a good battery. Thanks again Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 8:46 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: RV-List Digest: 48 Msgs - 09/26/06 Tim, I am not an expert, but here's how I'd approach the problem. First I would give it plenty of time. The first cycle takes maybe 15 seconds to fill the prop. Go to at least 1800 RPM to be sure you're within the range of the prop/governor. Go to 2000 if that doesn't work. If that doesn't cause the prop to cycle, then I would put a pressure gauge in the prop line. My governor adaptor has a plug where this could be done. I would use 1/8 inch copper tubing to a 500 psi gauge into the cockpit. I don't know what the pressure should be exactly, maybe 150 psi or so. Perhaps someone else on the list knows. Or, a call to Hartzell would probably get you an answer. If you have pressure and the prop doesn't increase pitch and slow the engine RPM, then maybe Thomas is right -- the crank is wrong, or not set up for constant speed. Does it have a soft plug installed for a fixed pitch? Do you remember what the crankshaft looked like before you installed the prop? Best wishes, and let us know what you find out. Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 9/27/2006 11:18:57 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, thomphy(at)msn.com writes: Hey Tim, First, Congrat's on getting the airworthy cert! Now, for the prop. Do you know for sure that you have a hollow crankshaft? One of our local chapter members, had the same problem. Signed off, ready to fly, can't cycle the prop!!!! Did every check known to man, only to find out the engine guys put the wrong crankshaft in his engine!!! R&R engine, replaced crankshaft, and the prop now cycles just fine. Hope that's not your case. But you have to pull the prop to make sure. Thomas Phy RV-7 rotary > Hello Listers, > > My -6 just got its airworthy cert today. I took it out and fueled it plus > taxi tested it. I did a run-up and found very little change when I cycle > the prop. How do I begin to determine the problem with this? > > Thanks for any input > Tim > RV-6 > es Day --> - NEW MATRONICS WEB FORUMS - bsp; --> nbsp; - NEW MATRONICS LIST WIKI - ======================== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Mike Robertson" <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Calculate altimeter setting from barometric pressure.
Date: Sep 27, 2006
Amit, I am embarrassed to say that I have not been able to find a copy of that ma nual/order that you want. I would suggest calling the Airway Facilities br anch in Renton, WA. Mike > From: amitdagan(at)hotmail.com> To: rv-list-digest(at)matronics.com> Subject: R V-List: Calculate altimeter setting from barometric pressure.> Date: Tue, 2 mitdagan(at)hotmail.com>> > // convert the sensed pressure to the altimeter se tting:> //> // http://www.srh.noaa.gov/elp/wxcalc/formulas/altimeterSetting .html> //> // Alt = (p - 0.3) * (1 + K * (h / (p - 0.3)^^E))^^(1.0 / E)> // E = 0.190284;> // K = 1013.25^^E * 0.0065 / 288 = 8.4229e-5> / /> // where> //> // p = station pressure in millibars> // h = station e ==> > > _________________________________________________________________ Try the new Live Search today! http://imagine-windowslive.com/minisites/searchlaunch/?locale=en-us&FORM =WLMTAG ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Furey" <john(at)fureychrysler.com>
Subject: Cleveland tail wheel
Date: Sep 27, 2006
I've been staring at nose wheels for the past 6 years so please excuse my ignorance but I just looked at two Cleveland tail wheels and noticed that what looks like a zerk grease fitting is just a hole to the center of the wheel. Looks like a sealed bearing on each side. Seems like an odd set up to me. Any insight would be appreciated. John Furey 2 RV6A RV7 in process ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Mission specific/fiber glass
From: "deuskid" <empire.john(at)gmail.com>
Date: Sep 27, 2006
You might want to also cosider: Lightning Aircraft LSA compliant and full experimental version Lightning forum: http://forums.matronics.com/viewforum.php?f=64 website: http://www.arionaircraft.com/ a short description and pilots impression: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?t=12480 like everything ... there are trade offs involved but it is about the cost of a RV-9 and can be built in months not years. ymmv John Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=64398#64398 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2006
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Cleveland tail wheel
John Furey wrote: > I've been staring at nose wheels for the past 6 years so please excuse my > ignorance but I just looked at two Cleveland tail wheels and noticed that > what looks like a zerk grease fitting is just a hole to the center of the > wheel. Looks like a sealed bearing on each side. Seems like an odd set up to > me. Any insight would be appreciated. It is indeed an odd setup since the bearings are sealed. That's about all the insight I can provide. :-) Sam Buchanan (RV-6 and three sets of sealed tailwheel bearings in ~800 hrs) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Sep 27, 2006
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: hammer? no no no it was the gun
I have a lathe and a mill in my basement, full size shop lathe. If you want, I can turn just about anything you want. No charge other than mailing. Email me at dnellis(at)wowway.com if interested. I live in Michigan. Dave Nellis --- davcor(at)comcast.net wrote:

RV-Archive.digest.vol-sg

RV-Archive.digest.vol-sg