RV-List Archive Browser

From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
Date: Nov 02, 2006
Now that everyone is arguing over how stupid your question was, I'll answer it. If you're just starting out on your aviation experience, there's one very important word your going to have to learn to apply, very often. That word is PRUDENT. Now I'm sure Champion gaps the plugs before they leave the factory by either an automated process or some poor smuck sitting there with a gaping tool. But, because it's your butt on the line, do you want to trust this process? Nope, it's prudent for you to check the gap of your plugs with a feeler gage before you install them. If you start looking around in the maintenance shops, you'll see that even after removing new parts from the factory boxes, good mechanics will inspect them visually and if dimensionally critical, they will pull the spec sheet and check them for tolerance. Again, just being prudent. Bruce www.glasair.org > > In a message dated 11/2/06 5:50:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, > deanpichon(at)msn.com writes: > >> Hi All, >> >> I just received some new Champion spark plugs and would like to know if > they >> >> come pre-gapped. I am reluctant to open the moisture-proof packaging to >> check. Does anyone out there know whether or not these arrive ready to >> install? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Dean Pichon > ======================= > Dean: > > It does not matter if they WERE gapped or not. You are supposed to check > the > gap BEFORE you install them. Pull out your gapping tool and gage. > > Barry > "Chop'd Liver" > > > -- > > _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "H.Ivan Haecker" <baremetl(at)gvtc.com>
Subject: Gapping Plugs
Date: Nov 02, 2006
Since we are on this "topic", what are the favored gapping tools that people use. I am a little tired of my cheapo thumbnut adjuster. Anyone tried the one that has been advertised forever in GAN from LeDoux Aviation? H. Ivan Haecker -4 1320 hrs. S. Cen. TX _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Gapping Spark Plugs-There are dumb questions.
Are there DUMB QUESTIONS? There sure are! So where did the infamous quote: "There are no dumb questions", come from? I believe it came from a TEACHER. I teacher that wanted to instill confidence in every child in class. A teacher that wanted to make the children THINK. For a teacher that does not have questions asked of them has to do more teaching than they are capable of. So, why do we get upset when a "DUMB" question is asked? Because somewhere in life YOU were taught the answer to that dumb question and failed to learn it. Because laziness has overrun the ability to do one's own research. Because we have become a, "I want it now society". Because we are so DUMB that we put idiots in Washington to write laws to legislate common sense. So what do we do about dumb questions? We, answer them with the same type of answer the TEACHER must have, or should have given; one that forces the person to think. For in aviation even more so than the sea, aviation is not very forgiving <--- something like that. After all since we are legislating all these Live Longer Laws of Common Sense something has to be out there to maintain the balance of nature and the Darwin Awards. An idiot driver with MMTB (More Money Than Brains) becomes an idiot pilot. And the bad thing about that is they may kill people other than themselves ... And ... Give flying a black eye. Hell, look at that A-Hole Kennedy, John Denver, that baseball BOOB and the list goes on ... Ya can't be politically correct all the time and expect people to change on their own. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Prop: FP faster than CS?
At 11:21 AM 11/2/06, you wrote: >Bob, > >First time I've ever seen a claim that FP is 10 knots faster than CS. >Would you care to elaborate? > Keeping horsepower constant, speed as I understand it is determined by the RPM and the pitch. When you get a fixed pitch prop you can have any pitch you want, you just can not change it. My prop was custom designed to provide optimum climb/cruise speed for my airplane (C/S props do give a better climb performance than my prop). Also blade efficiency has a part to play with this. As I said my prop was custom made, the C/S props are not, as I understand it. My prop only weights about 11 pounds, if my memory serves me correctly. The extra 45 pounds for a C/S prop right on the nose really hurts in additional drag. My aircraft is tail heavy rather than nose heavy. This tends to reduce the required downward lift of the horizontal stab (to maintain level flight), which in turns reduces the drag produced by lift (induced drag I think, I always forget which is which). 45 pounds does not seem like much, but then multiply it by the moment it creates from the center of gravity and it becomes a much larger number. Now if I had an 11 pound C/S prop then my RV would probably go faster with the C/S prop versus the fixed pitch. I am not an aerodynamic engineer as are some on this list (I did major in aerodynamics in college). They may confirm or dispute my opinions. My opinions are not based upon actual test data, but on aeronautical principals as I understand them. In comparison to Vans performance figures for the RV7 (I know different airplane etc) I get about 10 kts faster cruise speed with my fixed pitch prop than his RV7 with a C/S prop. I realize that this is not a scientific valid comparison. What is neat about this list you can buy into my opinion or not. I could be wrong and if so, I am confident that many people on this list will let me know. Bob _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 03, 2006
What exactly does the knowledge of spark glug gapping have on one's ability to safely fly an aircraft? I'll wagger it has as much bearing on flying as the skill of using an E6B has for an A&P to maintain spark plugs. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=71986#71986 _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Prop: FP faster than CS?
What the list should know is that the true secret to Bob's fast speed is the hand-brushed olive drab latex house paint finish on his airframe. Bob's night-fighter is so fast, when he comes by to visit me, he's gone before I know he's even been here, which explains why I never see him - maybe. It couldn't be that he's forgotten where I live and never comes over anymore ;-) Where ya been, buddy? -Stormy On 11/3/06, Bob wrote: > > At 11:21 AM 11/2/06, you wrote: > >Bob, > > > >First time I've ever seen a claim that FP is 10 knots faster than CS. > >Would you care to elaborate? > > > > Keeping horsepower constant, speed as I understand it is determined by the > RPM and the pitch. When you get a fixed pitch prop you can have any pitch > you want, you just can not change it. My prop was custom designed to > provide optimum climb/cruise speed for my airplane (C/S props do give a > better climb performance than my prop). > > Also blade efficiency has a part to play with this. As I said my prop was > custom made, the C/S props are not, as I understand it. > > My prop only weights about 11 pounds, if my memory serves me > correctly. The extra 45 pounds for a C/S prop right on the nose really > hurts in additional drag. My aircraft is tail heavy rather than nose > heavy. This tends to reduce the required downward lift of the horizontal > stab (to maintain level flight), which in turns reduces the drag produced > by lift (induced drag I think, I always forget which is which). 45 pounds > does not seem like much, but then multiply it by the moment it creates from > the center of gravity and it becomes a much larger number. > > Now if I had an 11 pound C/S prop then my RV would probably go faster with > the C/S prop versus the fixed pitch. > > I am not an aerodynamic engineer as are some on this list (I did major in > aerodynamics in college). They may confirm or dispute my opinions. My > opinions are not based upon actual test data, but on aeronautical > principals as I understand them. In comparison to Vans performance figures > for the RV7 (I know different airplane etc) I get about 10 kts faster > cruise speed with my fixed pitch prop than his RV7 with a C/S prop. I > realize that this is not a scientific valid comparison. > > What is neat about this list you can buy into my opinion or not. I could > be wrong and if so, I am confident that many people on this list will let > me know. > > Bob > > _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Prop: FP faster than CS?
Date: Nov 03, 2006
On 3 Nov 2006, at 10:33, Bob wrote: > > At 11:21 AM 11/2/06, you wrote: >> Bob, >> >> First time I've ever seen a claim that FP is 10 knots faster than >> CS. Would you care to elaborate? >> > > Keeping horsepower constant, speed as I understand it is determined > by the RPM and the pitch. When you get a fixed pitch prop you can > have any pitch you want, you just can not change it. My prop was > custom designed to provide optimum climb/cruise speed for my > airplane (C/S props do give a better climb performance than my prop). The propulsive horsepower is equal to the horsepower delivered by the engine times the propeller efficiency. You were turning the FP prop up to 2800 rpm, but only running at 2700 with the CS prop, so the engine was making more power when with the FP prop. I don't recall you said which FP prop you had, but I have seen several reports that indicate the Sensenich has slightly higher prop efficiency than the old Hartzell, as the old Hartzell was not optimized for RV speeds. The newer blended airfoil Hartzell is apparently more efficient than the older Hartzell, and it may have finally equalled or exceeded the Sensenich. Of course at lower speed conditions, and engine with a FP prop is turning at lower rpm, and thus makes lower power than if it had a CS prop. But in cruise, it is possible for a FP prop to be faster, if it is optimized for RVs, and the CS prop isn't. > > Also blade efficiency has a part to play with this. As I said my > prop was custom made, the C/S props are not, as I understand it. > > My prop only weights about 11 pounds, if my memory serves me > correctly. The extra 45 pounds for a C/S prop right on the nose > really hurts in additional drag. My aircraft is tail heavy rather > than nose heavy. This tends to reduce the required downward lift > of the horizontal stab (to maintain level flight), which in turns > reduces the drag produced by lift (induced drag I think, I always > forget which is which). 45 pounds does not seem like much, but > then multiply it by the moment it creates from the center of > gravity and it becomes a much larger number. The drag penalty at cruise from 34 lb on the nose would likely be small, in my opinion. It would be overshadowed by the differences in engine power and prop efficiency. If you kept the engine and prop the same, and added the 34 lb on the nose, you might be able to measure a very, very small difference in speed. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
In a message dated 11/3/06 10:22:47 AM Eastern Standard Time, rcitjh(at)aol.com writes: > I'll wagger it has as much bearing on flying as the skill of using an E6B has > for an A&P to maintain spark plugs. > > Jekyll ====================== Well, I can tell you without a doubt. That any E6B that will fit between the electrode and the core of a spark plug ... Well, that spark plug is not gaped correctly. It should be gaped so my left pinkie's finger nail and plus a R.C.H. will just drag through. Barry "Chop'd Liver" _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: SCOTT SPENCER <aerokinetic(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Prop: FP faster than CS?
RPM is horsepower... most fixed-pitch guys (with wood props anyway) overwind their engines and see more speed than a similar constant-speed equipped plane. This speed comes at the price of higher fuel burns though. Pretty common knowledge in racing circles... Scott N4ZW 3 years racing my -4 in the Airventure Cup... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: bill shook <billshook2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
> What exactly does the knowledge of spark glug gapping have on one's ability to safely > fly an aircraft? Safely fly an aircraft...none. Safely BUILD an aircraft...well, now that is another story. That being said, if there is knowledge missing...this list is a great way to pick it up as long as you separate the wheat from the chaff...so to speak. There are a lot of safety oriented questions I see come across here that I would direct towards a pro if it were me. I mean any of us that have seen Charlie Kuss sitting on his deck watching the waves, drinking some fruity mixture of deadly fluids...would certainly balk at asking him how to properly fish a flight line. I mean come on, the guy listens to Yanni and hangs out with Marines..there is just something wrong there. :) Just kidding Charlie...mostly. Bill (http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com) _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
From: "Jekyll" <rcitjh(at)aol.com>
Date: Nov 03, 2006
Barry, Bill and Dan: No bout-a-doubt-it that building and maintaining an aircraft requires the knowledge and application of gapping techniques. That was not the issue I addressed. Noel crudely but clearly stated that Dean shouldn't be flying if he needed to ask that question. I addressed Noel's missguided assertion. Flying and gapping are not related. Yes, building and maintaining and gapping are related. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72016#72016 _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 03, 2006
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
In a message dated 11/3/2006 8:58:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rcitjh(at)aol.com writes: No bout-a-doubt-it that building and maintaining an aircraft requires the knowledge and application of gapping techniques. That was not the issue I addressed. Noel crudely but clearly stated that Dean shouldn't be flying if he needed to ask that question. I addressed Noel's misguided assertion. Flying and gapping are not related. Yes, building and maintaining and gapping are related. =================================================== Life is the ultimate learning process. This list should mostly be about giving pilots and builders good information with which to go safely and successfully about their business. It may occasionally be about conservative congressmen and evangelical leaders getting caught with their pants down, but not today. Even the most astute practitioner of a given art is often missing some critical piece of needed information and it is our obligation to provide the missing information in a non-judgmental way. I, for one, am always happy to share what little knowledge that I have and prefer to see as much information as possible discussed in an open forum. The consensus or lack thereof among my peers helps me to weigh the accuracy of the data. Please don't archive. I'm sure that what Noel meant to say was, this information should be known by all who commit aviation and that not having this knowledge could in fact contribute to their demise. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 814hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
Date: Nov 03, 2006
This, to me, has been an interesting thread. This is about knowledge and the ability to garner same without risking the junior high school fear of raising one's hand in a social setting that may be embarrassing or hostile. The e-mail environment often distorts or does not distort enough a person's head tone when typing a particular comment. Some of us have years of engine work, stretching back to the good old days of rebuilding those short blocks ('55 Chevy was my learning platform), while others can fly circles around us all, and do so inverted. We all have our strengths, but most importantly, we all have our intellectual and skill-based blind spots. Amazingly, even with the anonymity of the internet, when you ask a question, especially the most basic of questions, no matter how old we are, there is that tendency to hesitate thinking the fool may become me. Then when it gets reinforced by some, perhaps well meaning rebuke, well, then the real danger creeps in. Not asking the question that will really bite you in the preverbal a$$. Knowledge then is not passed on to that person who may not be the most experienced mechanically, but who might be the best jazz pianist in town. Answer the questions. No matter how often asked. Pass on the knowledge. What is the good in not doing so? Yes, we as pilots are better off to have the ability to seek out our own answers, and yes there is the quick fix attitude to contend with, and, yes, good teachers know that an analytic mind is not created by learning through rote memorization, but discouragement and criticism will kill the curious just as surely. John Jessen (40328) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jekyll Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs Barry, Bill and Dan: No bout-a-doubt-it that building and maintaining an aircraft requires the knowledge and application of gapping techniques. That was not the issue I addressed. Noel crudely but clearly stated that Dean shouldn't be flying if he needed to ask that question. I addressed Noel's missguided assertion. Flying and gapping are not related. Yes, building and maintaining and gapping are related. Jekyll Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72016#72016 -- -- _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Have You Tried The New Matronics List Forum?
Hello Listers, One of the major new additions to the Matronics Email Lists this year was the addition of a new and full function Forum Web Site at: http://forums.matronics.com The best part of these new Forums is that they are tied directly to the Classic email distribution Lists! That also means that posts go in both directions. If you post a message on the Forum web site, it will be cross posted to the respective Email List. And, if you post a message to a particular Email List, it will be cross posted to the same respective forum on the Forum site! So, no matter what your content viewing pleasure is - either direct email distribution or web-based GUI interface, you can have it at the Matronics Email Lists! Won't you make a Contribution to support these Lists? It is your SOLE Contributions that make their continued operation and upgrade possible! The Contribution site is Fast, Easy, and Secure. Please surf over and make your Contribution today: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: "JOHN STARN" <jhstarn(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
----- Original Message ----- From: Vanremog(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs In a message dated 11/3/2006 8:58:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rcitjh(at)aol.com writes: No bout-a-doubt-it that building and maintaining an aircraft requires the knowledge and application of gapping techniques. That was not the issue I addressed. Noel crudely but clearly stated that Dean shouldn't be flying if he needed to ask that question. I addressed Noel's misguided assertion. Flying and gapping are not related. Yes, building and maintaining and gapping are related. = Life is the ultimate learning process. This list should mostly be about giving pilots and builders good information with which to go safely and successfully about their business. It may occasionally be about conservative congressmen and evangelical leaders getting caught with their pants down, but not today. Even the most astute practitioner of a given art is often missing some critical piece of needed information and it is our obligation to provide the missing information in a non-judgmental way. I, for one, am always happy to share what little knowledge that I have and prefer to see as much information as possible discussed in an open forum. The consensus or lack thereof among my peers helps me to weigh the accuracy of the data. Please don't archive. I'm sure that what Noel meant to say was, this information should be known by all who commit aviation and that not having this knowledge could in fact contribute to their demise. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 814hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: List Police at it Again
> >Do you deserve to hold the FAA Repairman Certificate for your airplane if >you don't know how to gap your spark plugs? > >I'm not saying a hard yes or no, just playing devil's advocate. Well, let me see If I get this right. Maybe we should have some sort of test before we get an FAA Repairman Certificate. Maybe that test should be, I don't know... how about, yes that is it...build an airplane. What a test??! In my case, I held the FAA repairman certificate for three years before I ever gapped a spark plug??! I never considered gapping a spark plug a critical skill to be an FAA Repairman. Every year during the conditional inspection I had my local FAA A&P IA (remember those guys) clean inspect and gap the plugs and do a compression check. Why, because he had the tools and equipment to do it and I did not. Now I have the tools. So I do it. Yes, I did have numerous questions on how to use the tool and how to gap the plugs. And worst of all the gapper I bought was too large to gap my plugs. Maybe if someone had warned me on the list before I bought the wrong tool things would have gone smoother. But, foolishly, I did not ask the question, I didn't want my FAA Repairman Certificate yanked by the RV List Police. It is too late to yank my certificate now, because I now know how to gap the plugs. HA!! _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Bob <panamared3(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Prop: FP faster than CS?
> >What the list should know is that the true secret to Bob's fast speed >is the hand-brushed olive drab latex house paint finish on his >airframe. > >Bob's night-fighter is so fast, when he comes by to visit me, he's >gone before I know he's even been here, which explains why I never see >him - maybe. Bill Boy are you in trouble now. Releasing classified National Security Secrets on the internet are we? I would sure hate to be in your shoes when the Homeland Security, FBI, ATF, Fincastle Police Department and the worst of all the Dreaded RV List Police get a hold of you! Unfortunately, the NightFighter is no more. It will soon emerge as something else. When one of the locals asked what I was doing, I told him it would be a surprise. He asked if I was going to paint my aircraft and I told him that truly would be a surprise. You can't beat that house paint finish (actually it is not that good) nor can you see it. Bob RV6 the former NightFighter _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Electronics International gages
Date: Nov 03, 2006
I would like to hear from folks using any of the Electronic International Gages. The backlighting for the digital read out portion may be connected to a panel rheostat to dim the backlighting. The instructions say to permanently power up the backlight control line which is what I have installed. However, I'm wondering about the merits of changing this and run the power lines thru a panel rheostat to be able to dim them. The LED lights are on a separate dimmer, as per instructions. Anyone have flying experience behind one or more of these gages to provide some user advice? Thanks. Marty in Brentwood TN {Wiring panel} _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Story <PStory(at)mn.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics International gages
Date: Nov 03, 2006
On Nov 3, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Emrath wrote: > > I would like to hear from folks using any of the Electronic > International > Gages. The backlighting for the digital read out portion may be > connected > to a panel rheostat to dim the backlighting. The instructions say to > permanently power up the backlight control line which is what I have > installed. However, I'm wondering about the merits of changing this > and run > the power lines thru a panel rheostat to be able to dim them. The LED > lights are on a separate dimmer, as per instructions. > Anyone have flying experience behind one or more of these gages to > provide > some user advice? Thanks. > > Marty in Brentwood TN {Wiring panel} Marty, I had the clock, UBG 16 and the fuel flow in my 172. The backlighting was never too bright even in the darkest of cockpit lighting. I hooked up the dimmer (for the LEDs and the UBG-16) but seldom used it. paul story RV-6A building a 7A _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com>
Subject: Gapping Spark Plugs- The Rest of the Story
Date: Nov 03, 2006
Hi All, I had no idea my innocent post would generate so much interest and consume so much bandwidth. In hindsight, I should have posted a more detailed question or perhaps nothing at all. In my quest perform as much prep work as possible for my annual in my basement rather than at the airport, I had considered gapping my shiny new plugs at home, prior to going to the airport. I decided I didn't want to open the protective package only to find that all the plugs were within specification. Thanks to the person who indicated the plugs are gapped and generally within spec. With that knowledge, I left for the airport this morning, armed with my gap gauge and gap setting tool and 8 new spark plugs. Much to my pleasure, I found all plugs within tolerance and installed them quite quickly. It was never about whether I had to check the gaps, but rather the liklihood that would have have to re-set the gaps. Thanks to all. I have learned much from this experience. Regards, Dean Pichon ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Dean Pichon" <deanpichon(at)msn.com> Subject: RV-List: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs Date: Thu, 02 Nov 2006 17:47:30 -0500 Hi All, I just received some new Champion spark plugs and would like to know if they come pre-gapped. I am reluctant to open the moisture-proof packaging to check. Does anyone out there know whether or not these arrive ready to install? Thanks, Dean Pichon _________________________________________________________________ Live Search! _________________________________________________________________ Use your PC to make calls at very low rates https://voiceoam.pcs.v2s.live.com/partnerredirect.aspx _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "noel anderson" <nandrand(at)xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs
Date: Nov 04, 2006
Thank you Vanremog . Your way with words is better than mine. My main concern is one of safety. I made a hasty reply that was not appropriate. I have apologised "of list" to the original post, I do so now to the list. Happy building and safe flying Noel ----- Original Message ----- From: Vanremog(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 04, 2006 6:15 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: Gapping Champion Spark Plugs In a message dated 11/3/2006 8:58:52 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, rcitjh(at)aol.com writes: No bout-a-doubt-it that building and maintaining an aircraft requires the knowledge and application of gapping techniques. That was not the issue I addressed. Noel crudely but clearly stated that Dean shouldn't be flying if he needed to ask that question. I addressed Noel's misguided assertion. Flying and gapping are not related. Yes, building and maintaining and gapping are related. = Life is the ultimate learning process. This list should mostly be about giving pilots and builders good information with which to go safely and successfully about their business. It may occasionally be about conservative congressmen and evangelical leaders getting caught with their pants down, but not today. Even the most astute practitioner of a given art is often missing some critical piece of needed information and it is our obligation to provide the missing information in a non-judgmental way. I, for one, am always happy to share what little knowledge that I have and prefer to see as much information as possible discussed in an open forum. The consensus or lack thereof among my peers helps me to weigh the accuracy of the data. Please don't archive. I'm sure that what Noel meant to say was, this information should be known by all who commit aviation and that not having this knowledge could in fact contribute to their demise. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 814hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 3/11/2006 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RV-6 Crash in PHX-Larry Olson
Well, it hasn't been mentioned on here yet, so I guess I'll be the one to break the news. Our good friend Larry Olson, used to be on the list for a number of years, has passed. It appears he hit some wires over a lake near Phoenix. To those of you who knew him, you know what a great guy he was, and how much he will be missed. To those of you that didn't, well, you missed out. I wish I had a nickel for everytime he lent a hand to someone. Godspeed, Larry. Paul Besing --------------------------------- Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics International gages
The dimming is kind of weird with their instruments in that they require multiple dimmers. I have the UBG 16 and the fuel flow meter as well. My panel rheostat for the LED/LCD is probably the wrong type, because it's kind of a all dark or all brite setting. The rheostat the came with the UBG16 works fine as advertised. I just wish there was a way to uniformly dim the entire panel. Other than that, the instruments are great. And you REALLY can't beat their customer service. First class. Paul Besing Paul Story wrote: On Nov 3, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Emrath wrote: > > I would like to hear from folks using any of the Electronic > International > Gages. The backlighting for the digital read out portion may be > connected > to a panel rheostat to dim the backlighting. The instructions say to > permanently power up the backlight control line which is what I have > installed. However, I'm wondering about the merits of changing this > and run > the power lines thru a panel rheostat to be able to dim them. The LED > lights are on a separate dimmer, as per instructions. > Anyone have flying experience behind one or more of these gages to > provide > some user advice? Thanks. > > Marty in Brentwood TN {Wiring panel} Marty, I had the clock, UBG 16 and the fuel flow in my 172. The backlighting was never too bright even in the darkest of cockpit lighting. I hooked up the dimmer (for the LEDs and the UBG-16) but seldom used it. paul story RV-6A building a 7A --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 03, 2006
From: Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Spark Plugs & Repairman
List, One thing that seems to be lost in the noise regarding checking of spark plug gaps: You don't even need a repairman certifcate to legally clean or replace spark plugs and set the spark plug gap. This is clearly defined in Part 43, Appendix A, supbart C, paragraph 20. Any owner licensed pilot/owner may perform preventive maintenance of Part 91 aircraft, which includes "Replacing or cleaning spark plugs and setting of spark plug gap clearance." I bring this up, because much of the discussion related to spark plug gapping seems to be centered around "holders of repairman certificates". A repairman certificate has absolutely nothing to do with legally gapping spark plugs, though I assume most believe that the holder of a repairman's certificate should know how! Skylor __________________________________________________ _- _- _- _- _- _- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Sears" <jmsears(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Crash in PHX-Larry Olson
Date: Nov 04, 2006
----- Original Message ----- From: Paul Besing To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 11:53 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-6 Crash in PHX-Larry Olson Well, it hasn't been mentioned on here yet, so I guess I'll be the one to break the news. Our good friend Larry Olson, used to be on the list for a number of years, has passed. It appears he hit some wires over a lake near Phoenix. To those of you who knew him, you know what a great guy he was, and how much he will be missed. To those of you that didn't, well, you missed out. I wish I had a nickel for everytime he lent a hand to someone. Godspeed, Larry. Paul Besing ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Low, Low, Low Rates! Check out Yahoo! Messenger's cheap PC-to-Phone call rates. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 04, 2006
Subject: Re: Electronics International gages
Paul, There IS a way to uniformly dim all the panel lights. Check this out. It has 3 channels. Two of the channels can be adjusted to lower levels than the master channel. You could add more if you needed to. http://www.a-and-t-labs.com/K11_Dimmer/index.htm If you think its too expensive, the schematic is posted on this web site. And the article (also posted) was in Kit Planes several years ago. You can change the design to suit yourself. The circuit board (that is sold separately for $20) is of very high quality. I bought the kit, but thought the heat sink was too heavy, so I substituted a lighter one with just as much area. Obviously, I am very happy with this dimmer. Regards, Dan Hopper RV-7A In a message dated 11/4/2006 12:24:49 AM Eastern Standard Time, pbesing(at)yahoo.com writes: I just wish there was a way to uniformly dim the entire panel. Other than that, the instruments are great. And you REALLY can't beat their customer service. First class. Paul Besing Paul Story wrote: ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2006
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Prop: FP faster than CS?
Yes RPM means more HP, about 3-5 HP per 100 RPM. FP, turning faster makes more HP, than a C/S governed to maintain a max RPM, usually 2,700 RPM. Of course this works in the C/S props advantage on takeoff and climb, because you can (gear down or go to low pitch) and turn more RPM's than a FP, which is stuck in high gear, (high pitch). Metal Fixed Pitch props like the Sensenich tend to be more efficient than wood fixed pitch because of the airfoil thickness. That means they have potential to also be faster. However the RENO racers are running 12" long prop extensions and a light weight WOOD prop is safer for them, especially at the high RPMs they run at. It is not that METAL props can't be safe, only that you have to test every installation and RPM to assure it is safe. Wood is much more forgiving. However it is not ideal for performance. Vans Last PROP test compared C/S props and one Sensenich prop. (here is a photo copy of results.) http://img82.imageshack.us/my.php?image=prop200415me.jpg The Sensenich actually was faster than all, but the new Hartzell BA prop. However as was mentioned at the cost of higher RPM and of course fuel burn. The BA was 208.9 mph and the Sensenich was estimated to be 207.9 at equal 2,500 RPM. My est is the Sensenich throttled back to maintain 2,500 rpm would actually be slower than 207.9 MPH because of, pumping loss, or induction drag or restriction from a partially closed throttle. Never the less the Sensenich is a good performer and value. That is another reason or advantage of C/S props, they're more efficient, you can run WOT and adjust the RPM with out moving the throttle. A fixed pitch prop is optimal at only one speed power setting. A constant speed is more efficient at a wide range of air speeds and power settings. Its like a car with one gear or one with 6 gears. EFFICIENCY means the power at the crank shaft is turned into thrust. Props max efficiency run around 80% plus/minus. Wood props tend to be thicker and not as efficient, turning engine HP into thrust and thinner metal props. As mentioned metal is harder to design and test, which is critical. Prop weight HAS little to do with top speed. A light Prop does affect payload, CG, yes! A lighter prop can help or hurt. A RV-7 like mine with a O360 needs the nose weight to get full use of the baggage area. Bottom LINE the FP is a compromise and efficient at ONE POINT, a C/S is more efficient at a wide range of conditions but cost and weighs more. It is possible a well designed FP metal prop can be almost as efficient or as efficient as a C/S prop at one point, but the FP prop sacrifices performance in other flight regimes. Also from Van's test the Sensenich Rocks. Wood props do have the advantage of being smoother. Cheers George RV-7, RV-4, B757 --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited Try it today. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 04, 2006
From: Cory Emberson <bootless(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: RV-6 Crash in PHX-Larry Olson
Oh my God - I've known Larry online for years. I am so, so sorry to hear this, my prayers go to his family and loved ones. He was indeed a Good Guy, and he'll be missed terribly. Godspeed. Cory > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Grease Seals - Soak or not ?
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Just assembled my wheels to gear and thought I went by Vans instructions pretty well. Later I looked at the instructions that came with the Cleveland wheels and they indicated that if you were using the felt wheel seals, which we do,. that you should soak the felt in 10 w motor oil before assembly. Re-read Vans instructions a couple of times and they never mention it. I was wondering if most folks did or did not soak the felt? Looks like it will become grease soaked anyway. Thanks Bill S 7a ark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Subject: Re: Grease Seals - Soak or not ?
In a message dated 11/5/06 9:43:17 AM Eastern Standard Time, billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net writes: > I was wondering if most folks did or did not soak the felt? Looks like it > will become grease soaked anyway. > > Thanks Bill S > 7a ark =============== Well, grease soaked! I doubt it but grease coated SURE. You definitely want then coated or soaked somehow. If you put them together without any oil or grease; I would just squirt some oil on them. It will work its way in. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Palm Springs, CA Airports...
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Hey all... We are going to be flying to the AOPA Expo tomorrow and planning on going to KTRM, but are open to other airports in the area if anyone has any suggestions... If anyone have any room in a hanger for my -8A that would be awesome too! Thanks! -Bill ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "William Gill" <wgill10(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Airflow Performance fuel servo set-up (RV-7 w/IO-390)
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Hello All, If anyone has any pictures of the throttle and mixture cable connections to the fuel servo, please send them my way. I am also trying to find a source for the cable end B-nuts that will fit through the linkage arms on the fuel servo or similar hardware for this purpose (Aircraft Spruce doesn't have). I have rotated the fuel servo 90 degrees that allows both the mixture and throttle arm linkages to be positioned slightly lower than the sump. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Best regards, Bill Gill Lee's Summit, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <Jdaniel343(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Electronics International gages
Date: Nov 05, 2006
I'll agree with Paul, their service is superb. I ordered a UBG 16 from Aircraft Spruce. The gauge they sent didn't have the same connectors for the probes as the instrument. After many calls and packages sent, I finally called EI and spoke with a women there who knew exactly what I wanted. She said send the probes back and she would send the probes with the correct connector. The probes arrived the next day. Couldn't be better. John Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Besing Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 10:23 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Electronics International gages The dimming is kind of weird with their instruments in that they require multiple dimmers. I have the UBG 16 and the fuel flow meter as well. My panel rheostat for the LED/LCD is probably the wrong type, because it's kind of a all dark or all brite setting. The rheostat the came with the UBG16 works fine as advertised. I just wish there was a way to uniformly dim the entire panel. Other than that, the instruments are great. And you REALLY can't beat their customer service. First class. Paul Besing Paul Story wrote: On Nov 3, 2006, at 3:50 PM, Emrath wrote: > > I would like to hear from folks using any of the Electronic > International > Gages. The backlighting for the digital read out portion may be > connected > to a panel rheostat to dim the backlighting. The instructions say to > permanently power up the backlight control line which is what I have > installed. However, I'm wondering about the merits of changing this > and run > the power lines thru a panel rheostat to be able to dim them. The LED > lights are on a separate dimmer, as per instructions. > Anyone have flying experience behind one or more of these gages to > provide > some user advice? Thanks. > > Marty in Brentwood TN {Wiring panel} Marty, I had the clock, UBG 16 and the fuel flow in my 172. The backlighting was never too bright even in the darkest of cockpit lighting. I hooked up the dimmer (for the LEDs and the _____ <http://pa.yahoo.com/*http:/us.rd.yahoo.com/evt=36035/*http:/music.yahoo .com/unlimited/> it today. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Airflow Performance fuel servo set-up (RV-7 w/IO-390)
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Doubt it would be any different than my IO-360-A* installation. http://www.rvproject.com/construction_log.html Granted the front-mounted gov'r and baffles are slightly different, but the AFP servo + horizontal sump should be identical. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (1127 hours) www.rvproject.com / www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: William Gill To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:43 AM Subject: RV-List: Airflow Performance fuel servo set-up (RV-7 w/IO-390) Hello All, If anyone has any pictures of the throttle and mixture cable connections to the fuel servo, please send them my way. I am also trying to find a source for the cable end B-nuts that will fit through the linkage arms on the fuel servo or similar hardware for this purpose (Aircraft Spruce doesn't have). I have rotated the fuel servo 90 degrees that allows both the mixture and throttle arm linkages to be positioned slightly lower than the sump. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Best regards, Bill Gill Lee's Summit, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Peter Mather" <peter(at)mather.com>
Subject: Re: Grease Seals - Soak or not ?
Date: Nov 05, 2006
Grease Seals - Soak or not ?Bill You should smear a thin layer of grease on the wheel seal holders and then I was taught to paint oil onto the felt disk itself using a small brush, bolt it all up and you should get a good seal Best regards Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Bill Schlatterer To: rv-list(at)matronics.com ; RV7A(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 2:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Grease Seals - Soak or not ? Just assembled my wheels to gear and thought I went by Vans instructions pretty well. Later I looked at the instructions that came with the Cleveland wheels and they indicated that if you were using the felt wheel seals, which we do,. that you should soak the felt in 10 w motor oil before assembly. Re-read Vans instructions a couple of times and they never mention it. I was wondering if most folks did or did not soak the felt? Looks like it will become grease soaked anyway. Thanks Bill S 7a ark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: RV-6 elevators needed
Date: Nov 05, 2006
I just bought an RV-6 project and both elevators are smashed. Anyone happen to have any spares or parts? Anyone with a tail kit they are not going any further with for a great price? Contact me at brian(at)engalt.com. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Palm Springs, CA Airports...
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Why not fly right into Palm Springs? The last time I went to AOPA at Palm Springs, that is what I did. Parked my RV-6 between two high wing Cessnas. They did not have RAMP fees back then. Not sure what they charge now. It says that there is reduced fuel and tiedown rates and FREE shuttle from TRM but there is NO shuttle from DDU. http://www.aopa.org/expo/2006/procedures.pdf Sound like you are going early. It does not start till 9th. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,964 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com> Subject: RV-List: Palm Springs, CA Airports... Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 08:29:31 -0700 Hey all... We are going to be flying to the AOPA Expo tomorrow and planning on going to KTRM, but are open to other airports in the area if anyone has any suggestions... If anyone have any room in a hanger for my -8A that would be awesome too! Thanks! -Bill _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Palm Springs, CA Airports...
From: "Phyrcooler" <phyrcooler(at)hotmail.com>
Date: Nov 05, 2006
KTRM is only about 30 - 35 minutes from PS... but definitely further away than KPSP or KUDD. From KTRM - exit the airport and turn right on "Airport Blvd" and go to the Hwy. 86 expressway. Turn left (North) and take the expressway to I-10. Go west on I-10 to the Ramon Rd. exit and then west again and on into Palm Springs. They (KTRM) have a lot of new hangers - many still empty. Don't know what kind of deal they may work for you to park in one for a few days. Weather is chamber of commerce nice this time of year... so may not be worth the hassle unless you really want your baby inside. UDD is a nice little airport (and I can hit it with a rock from my house). They do have rental cars available, but I don't know if any type of shuttle will be running to PS. VERY doubtful you could find hanger space. I only do touch and go's at PSP - and can't attest to any tie-down costs or services. But you ARE right there in town that way. dj Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72526#72526 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wow, Cool! New List Feature... [Please Read]
Dear Listers, By popular suggestion, I've written a substantial new code module for the Matronics Email Lists system. Here's how it works... During each November, I send out quite a few PBS-like "Please make a Contribution to support your List" emails. Wouldn't it be cool if, once a member made a Contribution, they didn't have to receive my support pleas anymore for the rest of that year? Well, that's exactly what I've written! Following this posting, anyone that makes a List Contribution in 2006 will no longer receive my Contribution Pleas for the rest of the year! The best part is this not only applies to the Realtime distribution, but also the Digest distribution! For those that have made a Contribution, the Daily Digest email-version will be invisibly stripped of my requests as well! (Note that my requests will still be present in the online versions of the Digests, List Browse, and on the Forum site.) For those submitting their Contribution by personal Check, please be sure to include your email address along with your Check as this is what is used to determine eligibility. So, in a nutshell, here's how it works: Make a Contribution = No more "Please Make a Contribution" messages! How sweet is that? If that's not a great reason to jump on the Matronics Email List Contribution site and make your donation today, I don't know what is! Don't forget that there are some totally awesome free gifts to be had along with your List Contribution this year!! Don't wait a minute longer to support your Lists! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you for your Support!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 06, 2006
From: Dan DeNeal <rv6apilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: RV-6 elevators needed
I bought a wing kit 10 years ago from another unfinished rv6 project and an empanage came with it. All I needed was the wing kit. (This was before prepunched!!!) My rv6a has been flying since 02 and last year I noticed the cracks in my rudder were getting longer. I tried to fit the extra rudder I had on my plane but the hinges didn't line up. You are welcome to try the elevators but chances are they may or maynot line up. Did you want the horizontal stab too? Dan DeNeal RV6A N256GD Danville, Illinois cell: 217.474.9574 Brian Kraut wrote: I just bought an RV-6 project and both elevators are smashed. Anyone happen to have any spares or parts? Anyone with a tail kit they are not going any further with for a great price? Contact me at brian(at)engalt.com. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Subject: Re: RV-6 elevators needed
The RV-7 elevators will work on the RV-6 HS. At least they did for me. I did trim the HS tips an inch farther forward so the longer, lighter, RV-7 elevator tips would clear. (It's in the plans, so it wasn't a builder mod.. :-) ) BTW, the RV-7 elevators are also used for the RV-8 empannage. I've put RV-7 elevators on both, recently. Regards, Jim Ayers RV-3 sn 50 flying RV-6A sn 21873 flying RV-4/HR2/LDP mods - structure completed, engine mounted. 90% to go. In a message dated 11/05/2006 7:47:52 PM Pacific Standard Time, brian.kraut(at)engalt.com writes: --> RV-List message posted by: "Brian Kraut" I just bought an RV-6 project and both elevators are smashed. Anyone happen to have any spares or parts? Anyone with a tail kit they are not going any further with for a great price? Contact me at brian(at)engalt.com. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: mkejrj(at)comcast.net
Subject: RV Construction Tapes for Sale
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Fellow RVers, After many moons my RV is flying and I want to sell various construction tapes.The tapes are all VHS format.They are priced at half the current list cost. RV Prepunched Empennage, Orndorff, RV 6,7, & 8, (2) Tapes...$20.00 RV Fuselage Construction, Orndorff, RV 8, (2) Tapes.................$22.00 RV 8 Finishing Kit, Orndorff, RV 8, (1) Tape...............................$17.00 RV 8 From The Ground Up, EAA,(4) Tapes................................$35.00 Please add $ 4.00 for postage. Dick Jordan Malvern, PA. RV 8A, N888BZ

Fellow RVers,

After many moons my RV is flying and I want to sell various construction tapes.The tapes are all VHS format.They are priced at half the current list cost.

RV Prepunched Empennage, Orndorff, RV 6,7, & 8, (2) Tapes...$20.00

RV Fuselage Construction, Orndorff, RV 8, (2) Tapes.................$22.00

RV 8 Finishing Kit, Orndorff, RV 8, (1) Tape...............................$17.00

<DIV>RV 8 From The Ground Up, EAA,(4) Tapes................................$35.00</DIV>

Please add $ 4.00 for postage.

Dick Jordan

Malvern, PA.

RV 8A, N888BZ

________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Joe & Jan Connell" <jconnell(at)rconnect.com>
Subject: RV Painters in Iowa and Minnesota
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Guys, I have an RV-9A that could fly next summer if I don't paint it first. I could paint it at home in our basement before the 1st flight using the Stewart/Hangar 21 water- borne, 2-part epoxy process. This would add another year to the build process. Once I fly it I'd rather not return it home for painting. There is no painting permitted at the Rochester, MN airport. Can you recommend someone in the IA/MN area to paint an RV? I'm getting close to a crossroad here... Many thanks, Joe Connell Stewartville, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Doug Weiler" <dcw(at)mnwing.org>
Subject: Re: RV Painters in Iowa and Minnesota
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Joe: If you are interested in a very high quality paint job, consider Wipaire at S. St. Paul. They just recently painted an RV-4 for one of our local builders and it turned out VERY nice. Doug Weiler pres, MN Wing I have an RV-9A that could fly next summer if I don't paint it first. I could paint it at home in our basement before the 1st flight using the Stewart/Hangar 21 water- borne, 2-part epoxy process. This would add another year to the build process. Once I fly it I'd rather not return it home for painting. There is no painting permitted at the Rochester, MN airport. Can you recommend someone in the IA/MN area to paint an RV? I'm getting close to a crossroad here... Many thanks, Joe Connell Stewartville, MN ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Flush Latch Source ?
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Does anyone know where to find this latch. It's very simple and clean and I would like to use it for an oil door latch. Saw it on a Micco a couple of weeks ago. The link below is to a Fairchild Fasteners catalog but I can't seem to find a source. Any help appreciated. http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/Ven dor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf Thanks Bill S 7a engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: RV-6 elevators needed
Date: Nov 06, 2006
How much? Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan DeNeal Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 10:04 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 elevators needed I bought a wing kit 10 years ago from another unfinished rv6 project and an empanage came with it. All I needed was the wing kit. (This was before prepunched!!!) My rv6a has been flying since 02 and last year I noticed the cracks in my rudder were getting longer. I tried to fit the extra rudder I had on my plane but the hinges didn't line up. You are welcome to try the elevators but chances are they may or maynot line up. Did you want the horizontal stab too? Dan DeNeal RV6A N256GD Danville, Illinois cell: 217.474.9574 Brian Kraut wrote: I just bought an RV-6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Airflow Performance fuel servo set-up (RV-7 w/IO-390)
Date: Nov 06, 2006
Bill: The Airflow installation manual has several pictures of various installations. If that is not available, give them a call or an email, there are more pictures available from them. The servo controls would normally be connected with threaded rod end bearings. Incidentally, I just returned from attending the Airflow Perfomance two-day "Fuel Injection 101" I think it is an excellant value and was well worth the trip. Dick Sipp RV10 40065 ----- Original Message ----- From: William Gill To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 10:43 AM Subject: RV-List: Airflow Performance fuel servo set-up (RV-7 w/IO-390) Hello All, If anyone has any pictures of the throttle and mixture cable connections to the fuel servo, please send them my way. I am also trying to find a source for the cable end B-nuts that will fit through the linkage arms on the fuel servo or similar hardware for this purpose (Aircraft Spruce doesn't have). I have rotated the fuel servo 90 degrees that allows both the mixture and throttle arm linkages to be positioned slightly lower than the sump. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Best regards, Bill Gill Lee's Summit, MO ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Flush Latch Source ?
Date: Nov 06, 2006
I think it's a Hartwell latch. http://www.mckechnieaerospace.com/hartwell/html/HW_home.shtm Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: RV-List: Flush Latch Source ? Does anyone know where to find this latch. It's very simple and clean and I would like to use it for an oil door latch. Saw it on a Micco a couple of weeks ago. The link below is to a Fairchild Fasteners catalog but I can't seem to find a source. Any help appreciated. <http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References /Ve ndor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf> http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/ Ven dor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf <<...>> Thanks Bill S 7a engine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2006
From: Charlie Kuss <chaztuna(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Re: Fuel sensors
Ron, Good advice. However, I have to take exception with your cost assessment for using fuel injection versus a carburetor. Aircraft Spruce sells the Precision Silverhawk system for $2400. Considering that you can sell your new or overhauled carburetor for $1000 (or more if new), that makes the "difference" only $1400. The ability to run lean of peak with fuel injection will allow you to recoup a savings in future fuel costs. Charlie Kuss >David, > >Your post brings up a subject which merits some discussion. I often >hear builders saying they want to do "limited aerobatics" so they >are installing this or that thingamajig on their RV. As delivered, >the RV (except the 9 and 10) is capable of many aerobatic maneuvers >and it is a joy to flop about with reckless abandon, knowing that it >will eventually come out upright with the pointy end going ahead of >the tail. Generally the "as delivered" RV is capable of most >POSITIVE "G" maneuvers and this gives it quite a long list of >available aerobatic options. David, I'm not picking on you, but >just adding a flop tube in one of your fuel tanks is not going to >give you NEGATIVE "G" capability and thus expand the range of >aerobatic maneuvers. > >A carburetor will starve your engine immediately at negative >"G". Cost of a fuel injection system: $3000+ >Snipped ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Flush Latch Source ?
From: "Rick Galati" <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 07, 2006
This may be what you are looking for. http://tinyurl.com/yamptp Bill Schlatterer wrote: > Does anyone know where to find this latch. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72813#72813 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Swaim" <bill(at)midwesteq.com>
Subject: Re: [RV-8] Wire marking labels
Date: Nov 07, 2006
Ditto - Use it for my business & the RV. Great little machine and also purchased it from labelcity.com Bill Swaim RV7 Slow Build Fuselage N615KS Reserved ----- Original Message ----- From: Mich=E8le Delsol To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com Cc: RVFrance(at)yahoogroupes.fr ; rvsqn(at)yahoogroups.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com ; adherents(at)vansclubdefrance.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:16 AM Subject: [RV-8] Wire marking labels Just purchased a Dymo Rhino5000 - great little machine for printing labels. The really neat part is that you can purchase 6mm & 9mm yellow shrink wrap tubing to print on. Printing can be wrap around the shrink wrap horizontally or vertically, print sizes from extra small (really very very small) to very large (limit would be half the tubes circumference. Got it from labelcity.com - good prices, fast delivery. This solution is obviously costlier than using transparent shrink wrap on paper standard printer labels but what a great time saver, and a professional looking job to. I thought I'd contribute this tidbit. Michele Delsol RV8 fuselage [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/jrDrlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RV-8/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: RV-8-unsubscribe(at)yahoogroups.com <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Henderson" <wf-k(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ?
Date: Nov 07, 2006
Yes, that is what I used. B&B Sales sell them, $5.00 each. They work VERY well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ? Does anyone know where to find this latch. It's very simple and clean and I would like to use it for an oil door latch. Saw it on a Micco a couple of weeks ago. The link below is to a Fairchild Fasteners catalog but I can't seem to find a source. Any help appreciated. <http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References /Ve ndor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf> http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/ Ven dor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf <<...>> Thanks Bill S 7a engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: RE: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ?
Date: Nov 07, 2006
Flush Latch Source ?Are two really needed on the oil door if you stiffen the door? Dale Ensing From: Dave Henderson To: rv7-list(at)matronics.com ; rv-list(at)matronics.com ; RV7A(at)yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 10:52 AM Subject: RV-List: RE: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ? Yes, that is what I used. B&B Sales sell them, $5.00 each. They work VERY well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:06 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com; RV7A(at)yahoogroups.com; rv7-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ? Does anyone know where to find this latch. It's very simple and clean and I would like to use it for an oil door latch. Saw it on a Micco a couple of weeks ago. The link below is to a Fairchild Fasteners catalog but I can't seem to find a source. Any help appreciated. http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/ Vendor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf <<...>> Thanks Bill S 7a engine ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "dick martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Electronics International gages
Date: Nov 07, 2006
Marty, I have over 1300 hours in my RV8 equipped with the EI fuel gauge(with capacitance sensors) and powered with a reostat lighting. I works perfect with no problems and is accurate within one gallon. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net> Sent: Friday, November 03, 2006 3:50 PM Subject: RV-List: Electronics International gages > > I would like to hear from folks using any of the Electronic International > Gages. The backlighting for the digital read out portion may be connected > to a panel rheostat to dim the backlighting. The instructions say to > permanently power up the backlight control line which is what I have > installed. However, I'm wondering about the merits of changing this and > run > the power lines thru a panel rheostat to be able to dim them. The LED > lights are on a separate dimmer, as per instructions. > Anyone have flying experience behind one or more of these gages to provide > some user advice? Thanks. > > Marty in Brentwood TN {Wiring panel} > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: MDRA rule change
Date: Nov 07, 2006
Canadian interest content follows, My RV6-a is a 180 horse lycoming with C/S night VFR The empty weight came in at 1135 lb. A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. A week later I received the as applied for registration which now resides in the aircraft as required. No changes indicated or requested.by the MOT. My local inspector is an acquaintance. His inspection process was professional diligent and helpful in all regards. He is a highly trained aircraft structural AME. by trade with an all consuming interest in aviation. Yesterday upon having completed the final inspection process of my RV6-a he had to inform me of the following; It has been decided that the maximum gross weight during the 25 hr. flight test period will be set by the MDRA at the kit manufacturers stated (in my case 1650 lb.) regardless of the applicant's requested weight. It is as yet unclear to me and the inspector exactly how this will effect my intention to maintain the previously applied for and accepted 1775 maximum gross weight. Is this little more than a mild shifting of weight by the MDRA with little or no effect on the builders? Will I have to re-test the aircraft for some as yet undetermined additional flight period?. It might mean that I have to re-do the gross weight climb test at the requested 1775 lb. weight. Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to prove the airframe is up to the task. The first three options can be complied with, the later would of course be out of the question. I have no word from the MDRA administration or the local provincial rep. as to the why's and how's this rule change was arrived at. No advance warning. No background or explanations offered to the local inspector. No word as to where this will leave me in dealing with the MOT ? I was informed that after the 25 hr. test period I will be on my own with the MOT. in this regard. No opportunity at all to have input on the matter! My bet is that after turning over one or two rocks in this pile,, a lawyer will be found !? Jim in Kelowna ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 07, 2006
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: MDRA rule change
On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" wrote: > A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application > included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did you do any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will handle the increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? Are you increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that the RV-6 will operate safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? > Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to > prove the airframe is up to the task. No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural testing, or know of someone who has, or perhaps have the blessing in writing from Van's Aircraft, I would go so far as to say you are foolhardy to request the increased gross weight in the first place. Why not just request the book gross weight, and load it up with whatever you want to? It's no safer. Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the kit manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specific gross weight. If you have made structural changes to the airframe to raise that gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are building a Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every right to request your engineering justification for every structural piece on the aircraft. If you haven't made structural changes, you're taking a risk with yourself and your passengers. Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the Van's limit. It doesn't make it safe. -Rob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: If You Got This Email, You Haven't Made A Contribution Yet! :-)
If you received this particular Matronics List Email message, its because you haven't yet made a Contribution to support your Lists! This is the first PBS-like funds drive message under the new distribution system. The new system selectively sends out the Contribution messages ONLY to those that forgot to whip out the 'ol credit card this year to support the continued operation and upgrade of the Matronics Email Lists! Don't you wish PBS worked that way? :-) You heard that right. Once you make your Contribution, these support requests messages during November will suddenly stop coming to your personal email inbox! Pardon me if I seem kind of excited about the new feature. I've wanted to implement something like this for a number of years now, but it was always such a daunting task to modify the back-end List processing code, that I just kept putting it off. Finally this year, I just decided to bite the bullet and put the code-pounding time it to make it work. A few days later, bam! A working system! Anyway, I'll stop gushing now. I really do appreciate each and every one of your individual Contributions to support the Lists. It is your support that enables me to upgrade the hardware and software that are required to run a List Site like this. It also goes to pay for the Commercial-Grade Internet connection and to pay the rather huge electric bill to keep the computer gear running and the air conditioner powered up. Your personal Contribution matters because when combined with other Listers such as yourself, it pays the bills to keep this site up and running. I accept exactly ZERO advertising dollars for the Matronics Lists sites. I can't stand the pop-up ads and all other commercialism that is so prevalent on the Internet these days and I particularly don't want to have it on my Email List site. I'm pretty sure you don't either. If you appreciate the ad-free, grass-roots, down-home feel of the Matronics Email Lists, please make a Contribution today to keep it that way!! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: MDRA rule change
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Hi Rob, As far as the blessing letter from Van goes, a copy of one exists and is being sent to me to use in defence of my request should I desire to go forward with the !750 LB propposed gross weight. "Fortunately, in the case of the RV-6/6A, there is an out. Some years ago (probably in a weak moment) Vans released a letter suggesting, in some roundabout language, that operation at weights up to 1750 lbs was permissible with a reduced CG range at the higher weights. Curt Reimer, a fellow RV-6er here in Winnipeg, was able to locate a copy of this letter and we both were able to use it as supporting documentation to get a gross weight of 1750 lbs authorized for the initial 25hr "test" period". No offence taken Rob. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:14 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: MDRA rule change > > On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" wrote: >> A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application >> included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. > > What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did you do > any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will handle the > increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? Are > you > increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those > numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that the RV-6 will operate > safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? > >> Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to >> prove the airframe is up to the task. > > No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural > testing, or know of someone who has, or perhaps have the blessing in > writing from Van's Aircraft, I would go so far as to say you are foolhardy > to request the increased gross weight in the first place. Why not just > request the book gross weight, and load it up with whatever you want to? > It's no safer. > > Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the kit > manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specific > gross > weight. If you have made structural changes to the airframe to raise that > gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are building a > Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every right to request your > engineering justification for every structural piece on the aircraft. If > you haven't made structural changes, you're taking a risk with yourself > and > your passengers. > > Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the Van's > limit. It doesn't make it safe. > > -Rob > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: khorton01(at)rogers.com
Subject: Re: MDRA rule change
There are two very separate issues here - what is safe? and what is require d by the regulations? This is one of many areas where simply complying wit h the regs is not sufficient to have a safe operation, and just because som ething is safe does not mean that it is allowed by the regs.=0A=0ASafety - obviously an increase in weight puts higher loads on the structure, and the aircraft must be operated differently if safe margins are to be maintained . Builders should operate at lower load factors, avoid rough runways and h ard landings, avoid strong winds, etc. =0A=0ARegs - I see nothing in CAR 5 49 or Airworthiness Manual (AWM) 549 that gives the MDRA a mandate to requi re engineering analysis for weight increases. AWM 549.19 says:=0A=0A549.19 Inspections and Maintenance=0A=0A(a) During fabrication and after final as sembly the aircraft shall be inspected for workmanship and general servicea bility according to a schedule acceptable to the Minister. Particular atten tion shall be paid to enclosed areas of the primary structure, which are no t visible after final assembly.=0A=0AInformation Note: (Ref. AMA 549/1A, pa ragraph 7).=0A=0AAirworthiness Manual Advisory (AMA) 549/1A has been There are two very separate issues here - what is safe? and what is required by t he regulations? This is one of many areas where simply complying with the regs is not sufficient to have a safe operation, and just because something is safe does not mean that it is allowed by the regs.=0A=0ASafety - obviou sly an increase in weight puts higher loads on the structure, and the aircr aft must be operated differently if safe margins are to be maintained. Bui lders should operate at lower load factors, avoid rough runways and hard la ndings, avoid strong winds, etc. =0A=0ARegs - I see nothing in CAR 549 or A irworthiness Manual (AWM) 549 that gives the MDRA a mandate to require engi neering analysis for weight increases. AWM 549.19 says:=0A=0A549.19 Inspec tions and Maintenance=0A=0A(a) During fabrication and after final assembly the aircraft shall be inspected for workmanship and general serviceability according to a schedule acceptable to the Minister. Particular attention sh all be paid to enclosed areas of the primary structure, which are not visib le after final assembly.=0A=0AInformation Note: (Ref. AMA 549/1A, paragraph 7).=0A=0AAirworthiness Manual Advisory (AMA) 549/1A has been superseded by AMA549/1B, which says:=0A by AMA549/1B, which says:=0A=0A3. Background and Discussion .... Given that Transport Canada policy is to keep the airwor thiness standards for amateur-built aircraft to a minimum, Chapter 549 of t he Airworthiness Manual contains the parameters necessary to define an airc raft as being eligible for designation in this category, and minimum requir ements for instruments, equipment and operating information necessary to be eligible for a special C of A for amateur=91built aircraft. ...=0A =0AThe section on Design and Construction makes no mention whatsoever about engineering analysis of structure. =0A=0AThe section on Inspections makes no mention of an assessment of the design from an engineering point of view .=0A=0AThe only limits on weight are the max weight for the category, and t he max wing loading to avoid being classifed as a high performance aircraft . It is worth noting that some Canadian RV and Rocket builders have declar ed max gross weights that mean the aircraft is classified as a high perform ance aircraft, which means the pilot needs a type rating to legally fly the aircraft. This has not been noticed by Transport Canada, but I fear that an insurance company could use this to claim that the pilot was not qualifi ed to fly the aircraft, and thus they did not have to pay out.=0A=0AThe MDR A should be challenged here. It is OK for them to remind builders that the laws of physics haven't changed since Van designed the aircraft, and that weight increases may reduce safety. But they should not be allowed to requ ire engineering analysis on the fly.=0A=0AKevin Horton=0AOttawa, Canada=0A =0A=0A=0A----- Original Message ----=0AFrom: Jim Jewell <jjewell(at)telus.net> =0ATo: rv-list(at)matronics.com=0ASent: Wednesday, November 8, 2006 5:24:53 AM =0ASubject: Re: RV-List: MDRA rule change=0A=0A--> RV-List message posted b y: "Jim Jewell" =0A=0AHi Rob,=0A=0AAs far as the blessin g letter from Van goes, a copy of one exists and is =0Abeing sent to me to use in defence of my request should I desire to go =0Aforward with the !750 LB propposed gross weight.=0A=0A"Fortunately, in the case of the RV-6/6A, there is an out. Some years ago=0A(probably in a weak moment) Vans released a letter suggesting, in some=0Aroundabout language, that operation at weig hts up to 1750 lbs was=0Apermissible with a reduced CG range at the higher weights. Curt Reimer,=0Aa fellow RV-6er here in Winnipeg, was able to locat e a copy of this=0Aletter and we both were able to use it as supporting doc umentation to=0Aget a gross weight of 1750 lbs authorized for the initial 2 5hr "test"=0Aperiod".=0A=0A No offence taken Rob.=0A=0AJim=0A----- Original Message ----- =0AFrom: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>=0ATo: <rv-list@matron ics.com>=0ASent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:14 PM=0ASubject: Re: RV-List )" =0A>=0A> On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" wrote:=0A>> A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application=0A>> included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. =0A>=0A> What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did you do=0A> any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will handle the=0A> increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? Are =0A> you=0A> increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those=0A> numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that t he RV-6 will operate=0A> safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? =0A>=0A>> Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to=0A>> prove the airframe is up to the task.=0A>=0A> No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural=0A> testing, or know of some one who has, or perhaps have the blessing in=0A> writing from Van's Aircraf t, I would go so far as to say you are foolhardy=0A> to request the increas ed gross weight in the first place. Why not just=0A> request the book gros s weight, and load it up with whatever you want to?=0A> It's no safer.=0A> =0A> Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the k it=0A> manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specifi c =0A> gross=0A> weight. If you have made structural changes to the airfra me to raise that=0A> gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are building a=0A> Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every r ight to request your=0A> engineering justification for every structural pie ce on the aircraft. If=0A> you haven't made structural changes, you're tak ing a risk with yourself =0A> and=0A> your passengers.=0A>=0A> Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the Van's=0A> limit. It doesn't make it safe.=0A>=0A> -Rob=0A>=0A>=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JAMES MCCHESNEY" <rvtach(at)msn.com>
Subject: Digital Photo Re-sizer
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Hi Listers A while back there was a discussion regarding the size of photo attachments to list postings. During this discussion someone mentioned a free photo-re-sizer utility which I am unable to locate either on my computer or in the archives. Does anyone have this info handy? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jim McChesney -7A QB Wings and Fuse (almost done) N-622WR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Arnold" <arno7452(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Photo Re-sizer
Date: Nov 08, 2006
James, Type Photo Resizer in your Google tab. It will return several free programs to try. Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: JAMES MCCHESNEY To: rv-list Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Digital Photo Re-sizer Hi Listers A while back there was a discussion regarding the size of photo attachments to list postings. During this discussion someone mentioned a free photo-re-sizer utility which I am unable to locate either on my computer or in the archives. Does anyone have this info handy? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jim McChesney -7A QB Wings and Fuse (almost done) N-622WR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Jeff Dowling <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Digital Photo Re-sizer
> http://bluefive.pair.com/pixresizer.htm > * > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Digital Photo Re-sizer
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Best I've found. http://www.irfanview.com/ Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAMES MCCHESNEY Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 9:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Digital Photo Re-sizer Hi Listers A while back there was a discussion regarding the size of photo attachments to list postings. During this discussion someone mentioned a free photo-re-sizer utility which I am unable to locate either on my computer or in the archives. Does anyone have this info handy? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jim McChesney -7A QB Wings and Fuse (almost done) N-622WR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Digital Photo Re-sizer
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" <rvbuilder(at)sausen.net>
If you are using Microsoft XP, the Microsoft Image Resizer Power Toy is free and simple to use. http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx Michael Sausen -10 #352 Fuselage ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAMES MCCHESNEY Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 8:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Digital Photo Re-sizer Hi Listers A while back there was a discussion regarding the size of photo attachments to list postings. During this discussion someone mentioned a free photo-re-sizer utility which I am unable to locate either on my computer or in the archives. Does anyone have this info handy? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jim McChesney -7A QB Wings and Fuse (almost done) N-622WR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: Digital Photo Re-sizer
Date: Nov 08, 2006
MS Paint works well for just cropping, file resizing, and image resizing. Usually, just resaving the image with Paint's default jpeg setting will reduce the file size significantly. You can resize an image by specifying a stretch factor; if you don't like the result click undo and try another. The most difficult is cropping. Use the selection tool to select the area you want and drag it to the upper left corner (or select the entire object and drag it until the upper left is where you want). Then use the Attributes menu item to set the width and height to clip to the bottom corner. If you crop too much, undo. Not as handy as a cropping tool, but it's both free and pre-installed. Pat Kelley - RV-6A - Still attaching wing, no progress due to school _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAMES MCCHESNEY Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Digital Photo Re-sizer Hi Listers A while back there was a discussion regarding the size of photo attachments to list postings. During this discussion someone mentioned a free photo-re-sizer utility which I am unable to locate either on my computer or in the archives. Does anyone have this info handy? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jim McChesney -7A QB Wings and Fuse (almost done) N-622WR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hans Conser <hansconser(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: MDRA rule change
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Jim, I need a copy of that letter... (Please) Hans On Nov 8, 2006, at 3:24 AM, Jim Jewell wrote: > > Hi Rob, > > As far as the blessing letter from Van goes, a copy of one exists and > is being sent to me to use in defence of my request should I desire to > go forward with the !750 LB propposed gross weight. > > "Fortunately, in the case of the RV-6/6A, there is an out. Some years > ago > (probably in a weak moment) Vans released a letter suggesting, in some > roundabout language, that operation at weights up to 1750 lbs was > permissible with a reduced CG range at the higher weights. Curt Reimer, > a fellow RV-6er here in Winnipeg, was able to locate a copy of this > letter and we both were able to use it as supporting documentation to > get a gross weight of 1750 lbs authorized for the initial 25hr "test" > period". > > No offence taken Rob. > > Jim > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> > To: > Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 11:14 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: MDRA rule change > > >> >> On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" wrote: >>> A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The >>> application >>> included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. >> >> What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did >> you do >> any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will >> handle the >> increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? >> Are you >> increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those >> numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that the RV-6 will operate >> safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? >> >>> Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to >>> prove the airframe is up to the task. >> >> No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural >> testing, or know of someone who has, or perhaps have the blessing in >> writing from Van's Aircraft, I would go so far as to say you are >> foolhardy >> to request the increased gross weight in the first place. Why not >> just >> request the book gross weight, and load it up with whatever you want >> to? >> It's no safer. >> >> Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the >> kit >> manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specific >> gross >> weight. If you have made structural changes to the airframe to raise >> that >> gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are >> building a >> Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every right to request your >> engineering justification for every structural piece on the aircraft. >> If >> you haven't made structural changes, you're taking a risk with >> yourself and >> your passengers. >> >> Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the >> Van's >> limit. It doesn't make it safe. >> >> -Rob >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: "Mark Frederick" <f1boss(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Gross weight -- change to more OR less?
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> Subject: Re: RV-List: MDRA rule change On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" wrote: > A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application > included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. >>What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did you do >>any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will handle the >>increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? Are you >>increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those >>numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that the RV-6 will operate >>safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? Come on -- lighten up! It's a 125LB increase! Van's has done the static testing to the limit of the wing structure, so there really isn't a reason to do that again. They say it is good for XGs at XXXX weight, and I believe them. If you want to fly at XXXX + XXX, then your G limits are reduced, and your maneuvering speed goes up. There is a bit more to it then this, but that's the Reader's Digest version. As an example, you can look in the C-172 POH and see that the ship is certified in 2 categories by using different weights and CG location limits; one category allows for higher G loading and a smaller CG range, but at lower weights, while the other limits the G with increased weight and an increase in the CG range. I'll bet your RV6 can be approved using 2 different loading schedules by using the C-172 POH as an example, along with the wing loading limits provided by Van's. I seem to recall that the RV4 specs call out a max aerobatic weight vs a MTOW, so that would suggest that Van already uses a schedule that more or less follows what Cessna uses. I will suggest that it is possible to load the ship so it is within the capabilities of the wing at a max of 2Gs, but the gear might not take the load. As an example, 1650 MTOW x 6G = 9900. So, if I load 'er up to 9900/2 or 4950LBS (GEEZ!), the wings will be within limits at 2Gs. At such weights you will need to consider the floor structure, but as far as I know, the whole ship is good for 6G at the factory spec'd weight...except for the gear, so that makes this an exercise that cannot actually be accomplished. So much for a non-stop flight to Hawaii! You'll have to stop at least once... ;-) Using the above calcs show that the 1775 lb ship will be good for 5.6Ginstead of 6G, and still be within the design limits of the wing. Most pilots would not have any problem staying within those limits. While the FAR 23 limits are a good design criteria to follow, the experimental world is not required to follow those criteria. Transport Canada CAN add licensing requirements for the pilot if the wing loading is above about 20 lbs/sq ft. I would not, however, exceed the CG limits set by Van's. > Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to > prove the airframe is up to the task. >>No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural >>testing, or know of someone who has, or perhaps have the blessing in >>writing from Van's Aircraft, I would go so far as to say you are foolhardy >>to request the increased gross weight in the first place. Why not just >>request the book gross weight, and load it up with whatever you want to? >>It's no safer. Nor is it any more dangerous if you do some 3rd grade math -- see my statement above. When you load outside the manufacturer's spec'd MTOW, your insurance is, of course, null and void. And as far as I know, the 'manufacturer' is the builder. >>Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the kit >>manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specific gross >>weight. If you have made structural changes to the airframe to raise that >>gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are building a >>Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every right to request your >>engineering justification for every structural piece on the aircraft. If >>you haven't made structural changes, you're taking a risk with yourself and >>your passengers. >>Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the Van's >>limit. It doesn't make it safe. Nor does it make it immediately unsafe -- again, see above. Additionally, FAR 23 allows for a flight program to prove the strength of aircraft structures -- calculations are not the only method of proving structural abilities. I will also suggest that such MTOW increases have been used for quite some time, and we have not heard of pilots landing their planes with damage to the structure from such loading, so it could follow that such weight increases would be allowed under FAR 23....which does not apply anyway. But, if you have data to back up your statements, by all means we had better have a look at such. >>-Rob -- Cheers! Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dave Mader" <davemader(at)bresnan.net>
Subject: Todd's Canopies
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Has anybody dealt with Todd's Canopies lately? Their web site seems to be down and I don't have a phone number. Can anybody help with a number or info? Thanks. Dave Mader RV-6 130 hrs. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Danielson" <johnd(at)wlcwyo.com>
Subject: Digital Photo Re-sizer
Date: Nov 08, 2006
Remember if you resize a JPEG or do any editing and save the picture, the JPEG file will be degraded. If you keep making changes to a JPEG file the picture will be degraded to a point you will not be able to get the photo back to a usable file. If you are using Photoshop, save the JPEG as a TIFF file. Edit the TIFF file as many times as you like, no degradation. When you have the photo that you like, resave the image as a JPEG file, but keep the TIFF file for future use. John L. Danielson -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of JAMES MCCHESNEY Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2006 7:24 AM Subject: RV-List: Digital Photo Re-sizer Hi Listers A while back there was a discussion regarding the size of photo attachments to list postings. During this discussion someone mentioned a free photo-re-sizer utility which I am unable to locate either on my computer or in the archives. Does anyone have this info handy? Any help appreciated. Thanks, Jim McChesney -7A QB Wings and Fuse (almost done) N-622WR (reserved) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
Here's the link I have, which works fine: http://www.toddscanopies.com/tdmain.htm. Since his main .htm file is not something like index.htm that would explain why the webserver doesn't show it if you hit it with just the domain name. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. (pleased Todd's Canopies customer) On 11/8/06, Dave Mader wrote: > > Has anybody dealt with Todd's Canopies lately? Their web site seems to > be down and I don't have a phone number. > > Can anybody help with a number or info? Thanks. > > Dave Mader > > RV-6 130 hrs. > > * > > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Digital Photo Re-sizer
On 7:42:16 2006-11-08 "RV Builder (Michael Sausen)" wrote: > If you are using Microsoft XP, the Microsoft Image Resizer Power Toy > is free and simple to use. > > http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/downloads/powertoys/xppowertoys.mspx I was the one who posted the link to that the last time. The Microsoft power toy is hands down the simplest solution. Select a bunch of photos in your file explorer, right click, and select resize. It all happens automatically. Irfanview is an excellent program for doing many things, and resizing is one of them. But it's a lot more effort if all you want is to resize a photo for the web. -Rob (not putting an archive blocking comment here, because this is a good thing to have in the archive for the next person who wants to know) Keywords: picture photo post resize web microsoft power toy ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca>
Subject: Re: Gross weight -- change to more OR less?
On 2:24:53 2006-11-08 "Jim Jewell" wrote: > As far as the blessing letter from Van goes, a copy of one exists and > is being sent to me to use in defence of my request should I desire > to go forward with the 1750 LB propposed gross weight. I was unaware of this... If indeed Van endorses it, then i'm sure he's done the analysis to support it... The liability issues would be horrendous if he hadn't. I'd like to see the wording of his letter, though... What modifications to G-limits does he make, for both normal and aerobatic category? What's the new aerobatic weight? On 5:42:29 2006-11-08 khorton01(at)rogers.com wrote: > This has not been noticed by Transport > Canada, but I fear that an insurance company could use this to claim > that the pilot was not qualified to fly the aircraft, and thus they did > not have to pay out. My further concern to that is that an insurance company could easily say that you flew your aircraft at a gross weight higher than the manufacturer recommended, and refuse to pay out... Regardless of what Transport says about legality. A Vans RV is a known quantity to an insurer, it's expected to have certain performance and usage characteristics that the insurance company is comfortable with. When you make changes to the design (and increasing gross weight is a change to design), the aircraft no longer fits their metrics, and strictly speaking is no longer a Vans RV. On 9:09:31 2006-11-08 "Mark Frederick" wrote: > Come on -- lighten up! It's a 125LB increase! Only 125lb, you say? There are RV-6's in Canada registered at 2000lb gross. This was before Van issued or alluded to any letters, too. At what point is an increase "reasonable"? When you analyze the structure of a light aircraft from nose to tail, you will learn that this is *not* a trivial change. It's not as simple as saying "add 10% to gross weight, knock 10% off G limits". That 125lb... Where will it go on the airframe? Will you increase your baggage capacity from 60 lb to 120lb? If so, you need to cut in *half* the G-limit on your baggage compartment floor. Will you add fuel to the wing by increasing the tank by one bay? You'll reduce the load on the wing spar at the wing root, but you'll increase the shear load on the skins outboard of the existing tank, *and* you'll move the stress concentration caused by the tank ending out one bay along the wing. Was the spar taper designed to take that? People assume that the weight will be just "spread around". If it could be uniformly spread around the airframe as a thin film of excess weight then you could indeed say that 10% more weight equals 10% less G-limit. There would never be an issue, and our gross weight and G-limits could be shown as a line on a graph and not a hard number limit. But realistically the weight isn't applied that way. The airframe components don't weigh any different, it's all the additional "stuff" that people add that makes the difference. It gets applied in discrete locations, that need to be considered individually to determine the overall effect on safety and performance. > Nor is it any more dangerous if you do some 3rd grade math -- see my > statement above. When you load outside the manufacturer's spec'd > MTOW, your insurance is, of course, null and void. And as far as I > know, the 'manufacturer' is the builder. Personally I prefer to fly airplanes that weren't built using 3rd grade math. You're right, in Canada the builder is classified as the manufacturer, but i'm sure the insurer will still consider the manufacturer of the kit when they choose whether to insure you. If you showed up on an insurer's doorstep with a "john doe special", two seat, weight and performance like an RV, worth $75K US, do you pay the same rate as someone with a built-to-plans (structurally, anyway) RV, of which there are thousands flying? This is something I don't know the answer to... It just seems silly to me that an insurer would accept that their risk is the same whether you build a "known quantity" or a "one-off" design. -Rob PS - I was unlucky in that the airframe structures course I took at university used the RV-6 as their design example the year *after* I took the course. My class used a Murphy Rebel. The analysis is pretty much the same on either aircraft though, and the things you need to consider are significant. On the plus side, I know how to make the airframe of a Murphy Rebel fully aerobatic, but it's not knowledge that i'm likely to put to use. :) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
Here's an email address: BSILVER05(at)aol.com Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Richard Dudley <rhdudley1(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Compression Test
Listers, I read in some descriptions of the differential compression test that for engines with displacement under 1000 cubic inches the orifice of the tester should be .040" and above 1000 ci the orifice should be.060". Some catalogs distinguish between <5" bore and > 5" bore rather than displacement. My O-320 is 5.125" bore and 320 cubic inches. I want to purchase the appropriate tester. I would appreciate your advice. Thanks in advance. Richard Dudley -6A flying ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: Flush Latch Source ?
Date: Nov 08, 2006
That's it exactly :-) Now if I can just find B&G Aviation Parts or at worst the Cessna shop. Thanks Bill S -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Galati Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 7:52 AM Subject: RV-List: Re: Flush Latch Source ? This may be what you are looking for. http://tinyurl.com/yamptp Bill Schlatterer wrote: > Does anyone know where to find this latch. Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=72813#72813 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Compression Test
The FAA guidance in AC43-13-1b was changed, to the under/over 5" designator by someone that doesn't have a clue about engines, as every Lyc bigger than an O-290 has greater than 5" bore and has been tested by the standard tester for eternity. The high volume tester is for radial engines. Just get the regular .040 orifice model. Richard Dudley wrote: > > Listers, > > I read in some descriptions of the differential compression test that > for engines with displacement under 1000 cubic inches the orifice of > the tester should be .040" and above 1000 ci the orifice should > be.060". Some catalogs distinguish between <5" bore and > 5" bore > rather than displacement. My O-320 is 5.125" bore and 320 cubic > inches. I want to purchase the appropriate tester. > I would appreciate your advice. > > Thanks in advance. > > Richard Dudley > -6A flying > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 08, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Clarification On New Contribution Module Operation...
Dear Listers, A number of Listers emailed and indicated that, even though they had made a Contribution this year, they still received the Contribution message yesterday. I looked into it and I found a slight anomaly (ok, bug) in the new code specifically as it related to Listers that had made their Contribution through PayPal AND have a DIFFERENT email address for their PayPal account and for their Matronics List subscription. If your PayPal account email address is DIFFERENT than the email address you are subscribed to the Matronics List(s) as, then my new code module couldn't tell that you had made a Contribution, since it was using the PayPal email address instead of the List email. I've fixed this issue for any new PayPal Contributions, but I don't have any easy way of resolving this for any of the previous Contribtuions. Again, this is ONLY an issue if your PayPal and Matronics List email addresses ARE NOT the same. Otherwise, everything works great. If you made a PayPal Contribution before 11/09/06 AND your email addresses don't match, please drop me an email at " info(at)matronics.com " (do not reply to this message!) and give me your Name, and both Email Addresses and I will manually update the records so that things will work as advertised. Sorry for the hassle! New code; new bugs... :-) To make a Contribution, please see: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administration ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
Subject: MT Prop & Alum spinner
From: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net
I have a 2 blade (MTV15B) MT Prop with the standard white spinner. Has anyone used a polished alum spinner with MT prop? Can't find one anywhere. Steve RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Gross weight -- change to more OR less?
When I set my GW on my -6A I spoke with an unnamed person at Van's...Their response was something like this: "On the record, you should set your Max Gross at xxxx (can't remember, 1400 maybe?)" "Off the record, I personally know of many RV's flying around at 1700-1800 pounds with no problem...just keep it in CG, and don't fly aerobatics at those weights" So, like Mark said, don't exceed the CG...YOU are the manufacturer, you can set your GW wherever you like. I personally used 1650 I think which was a 200 pounds or so more. I have flown it at that, but the issue comes with an aft CG when you burn off fuel. Do what you like with the weight, but evaluate the scenarios carefully when burning off fuel, because RV's can get out of CG really easily if you exceed those weights by much after you burn off fuel. Paul Besing Mark Frederick wrote: From: "Rob Prior (rv7)" <rv7(at)b4.ca> Subject: Re: RV-List: MDRA rule change On 20:41:18 2006-11-07 "Jim Jewell" < jjewell(at)telus.net> wrote: > A month or two ago I registered my RV6-a with the MOT. The application > included a requested gross weight which I set at 1775 lb. >>What criteria did you use to arrive at this new gross weight? Did you do >>any structural analysis of the airframe to confirm that it will handle the >>increased gross weight? What will be your aerobatic gross weight? Are you >>increasing that as well? What analysis have you done to support those >>numbers? Has anyone done analysis to show that the RV-6 will operate >>safely at 1775 gross and CAR/FAR Part 23 limits? Come on -- lighten up! It's a 125LB increase! Van's has done the static testing to the limit of the wing structure, so there really isn't a reason to do that again. They say it is good for XGs at XXXX weight, and I believe them. If you want to fly at XXXX + XXX, then your G limits are reduced, and your maneuvering speed goes up. There is a bit more to it then this, but that's the Reader's Digest version. As an example, you can look in the C-172 POH and see that the ship is certified in 2 categories by using different weights and CG location limits; one category allows for higher G loading and a smaller CG range, but at lower weights, while the other limits the G with increased weight and an increase in the CG range. I'll bet your RV6 can be approved using 2 different loading schedules by using the C-172 POH as an example, along with the wing loading limits provided by Van's. I seem to recall that the RV4 specs call out a max aerobatic weight vs a MTOW, so that would suggest that Van already uses a schedule that more or less follows what Cessna uses. I will suggest that it is possible to load the ship so it is within the capabilities of the wing at a max of 2Gs, but the gear might not take the load. As an example, 1650 MTOW x 6G = 9900. So, if I load 'er up to 9900/2 or 4950LBS (GEEZ!), the wings will be within limits at 2Gs. At such weights you will need to consider the floor structure, but as far as I know, the whole ship is good for 6G at the factory spec'd weight...except for the gear, so that makes this an exercise that cannot actually be accomplished. So much for a non-stop flight to Hawaii! You'll have to stop at least once... ;-) Using the above calcs show that the 1775 lb ship will be good for 5.6G instead of 6G, and still be within the design limits of the wing. Most pilots would not have any problem staying within those limits. While the FAR 23 limits are a good design criteria to follow, the experimental world is not required to follow those criteria. Transport Canada CAN add licensing requirements for the pilot if the wing loading is above about 20 lbs/sq ft. I would not, however, exceed the CG limits set by Van's. > Will the onus be on me to go through a structural testing regime to > prove the airframe is up to the task. >>No offense intended, but if you haven't gone through the structural >>testing, or know of someone who has, or perhaps have the blessing in >>writing from Van's Aircraft, I would go so far as to say you are foolhardy >>to request the increased gross weight in the first place. Why not just >>request the book gross weight, and load it up with whatever you want to? >>It's no safer. Nor is it any more dangerous if you do some 3rd grade math -- see my statement above. When you load outside the manufacturer's spec'd MTOW, your insurance is, of course, null and void. And as far as I know, the 'manufacturer' is the builder. >>Please keep in mind that when building an RV-6 as per the plans, the kit >>manufacturer's engineering analysis limits the airframe to a specific gross >>weight. If you have made structural changes to the airframe to raise that >>gross weight, you are no longer building a Van's RV-6. You are building a >>Jim Jewell Mk. 1, and Transport Canada has every right to request your >>engineering justification for every structural piece on the aircraft. If >>you haven't made structural changes, you're taking a risk with yourself and >>your passengers. >>Many RV-6's have been built and registered at gross weights over the Van's >>limit. It doesn't make it safe. Nor does it make it immediately unsafe -- again, see above. Additionally, FAR 23 allows for a flight program to prove the strength of aircraft structures -- calculations are not the only method of proving structural abilities. I will also suggest that such MTOW increases have been used for quite some time, and we have not heard of pilots landing their planes with damage to the structure from such loading, so it could follow that such weight increases would be allowed under FAR 23....which does not apply anyway. But, if you have data to back up your statements, by all means we had better have a look at such. >>-Rob -- Cheers! Mark --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: MDRA rule change, gross weight increase
Date: Nov 09, 2006
Troupe, Without any flaming or offense intended, the statement "If you want to fly at XXXX + XXX, then your G limits are reduced, and your maneuvering speed goes up." is half wrong and very dangerous. A wing is designed to support a particular limit load, in pounds of force. This force is generated at the critical angle of attack and at the maneuvering speed as published for MTOW. If you achieve the critical angle of attack at a speed greater than the MTOW Va, YOU WILL EXCEED THE MAX DESIGN LOAD FOR THE WING. I suspect that lapses of understanding such as this are precisely why Van's has been so vocal in their protests against design changes lately. It's much more practical than getting everybody a degree in aero. Please, folks, if you do not have a background in aero engineering, consult with someone who does before tinkering with such fundamental design elements. After all, we don't know what we don't know. Pax- glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: <plennon105(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: RE: Tods Canopies
There does seem to be a problem with his index page. The menu page is below which list prices and canopy types. http://www.toddscanopies.com/tdmenu.htm Regards, Pat Lennon RV7 empenage --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: carlos <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Subject: Re: Flush Latch Source ?
Bill Schlatterer wrote: > That's it exactly :-) Now if I can just find B&G Aviation Parts or at worst > the Cessna shop. > > Thanks Bill S > This might help also. Here is a pdf of a Camloc catalog from Fairchild Fastners for the KM610/KM680 series flush mounted panel latches. See page H-58. http://www.unirexinc.com/catalog/camloc_ram-h.pdf Don't know the cost though. Carlos RV-7A N174PP reserved -- Carlos Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com> Structural Engineers, LLC 2111 E. Broadway Rd. - Suite 3 Tempe, AZ 85282 Phone: 480.968.8600 Fax: 480.968.8608 www.sec-engr.com CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE The information in this email may be confidential and/or privileged. This email is intended to be reviewed by only the individual or organization named above. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any review, dissemination or copying of this email and its attachments, if any, or the information contained herein is prohibited. If you have received this email in error, please immediately notify the sender by return email and delete this email from your system. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Todd's Canopies
From: "plennon105" <plennon105(at)yahoo.com>
Date: Nov 09, 2006
There does seem to be a problem with his index page. The menu page is below which list prices and canopy types. http://www.toddscanopies.com/tdmenu.htm Regards, Pat Lennon RV7 empenage Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=73389#73389 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: LessDragProd(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 09, 2006
Subject: Re: MT Prop & Alum spinner
MT Propeller has what they call a "Hi-Glo" finish for their kevlar/epoxy spinner. If you would like to have your spinner refinished, I can check into the cost and delivery time. It makes the spinner look like a polished aluminum spinner. I have a "Hi-Glo" spinner on my MTV-15 aluminum 2 blade MT Propeller, and it looks really nice. Regards, Jim Ayers Less Drag Products, Inc. FAA certified MT Propeller Repair Station # LDSR535X (805) 795-5377 In a message dated 11/09/2006 6:21:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, sjhdcl(at)kingston.net writes: --> RV-List message posted by: sjhdcl(at)kingston.net I have a 2 blade (MTV15B) MT Prop with the standard white spinner. Has anyone used a polished alum spinner with MT prop? Can't find one anywhere. Steve RV7A ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum
After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: vft(at)AOL.COM
Cover the affected area with old towels and soak them with mineral spirits. You may need to soak them for a few hours but this worked very well on my F1 project. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: finn.lassen(at)verizon.net Sent: Thu, 9 Nov 2006 1:06 PM Subject: RV-List: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: Chuck <chuck515tigger(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum
WEIGHT penalty, and possibly could enhance moistures access, hence corrosion. Finn Lassen wrote: After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 09, 2006
From: Jack Lockamy <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Weathermeister
For those who aren't aware... there is an OUTSTANDING new tool available for aviation weather info. Check out www.weathermeister.com This aviation weather website was developed and is maintained by Dan Checkoway (aka 'Sharpie') who is a SoCAL RV-7 builder/formation pilot and frequent contributor to Kitplanes Magazine. Many of you have probably visited his RV-7 website.... www.rvproject.com. Hands down the best RV builder website on the internet. Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. Weathermeister.com displays numerous weather charts, winds aloft info, best economy and best speed altitudes to fly based on up-to-the-minute winds aloft data, TFRs, forecast weather conditions at your destination and airports under your flight path, and much, much more. If you sign up for the premium service ($4.95 monthly or $49.95 yearly...), you can store your own aircraft info and frequently flown cross-country routes that will accurately give you fuel burn, ETE, etc. The premium service is an unbelievable value once you see how powerful, and easy to use the tools available really are. I encourage everyone to visit www.weathermeister.com., evaluate it's awesome capabilities, and sign-up for the premium service to keep the site alive! (NOTE: The Premium service provides a LOT more info than the free site.) As a government employee, I still don't understand how a fellow like Dan Checkoway can single-handedly provide such a useful tool for evaluating flight weather conditions when the entire government (read FAA...) can not provide readable or barely understandable weather info to us. Weathermeister.com displays it all so clearly. If you haven't checked out www.weathermeister.com, you owe it to yourself to try it. I use it EVERY time I intend to fly... Tell a friend about the site. They WILL thank you!!! Jack Lockamy RV-7A N174JL 250 hrs. Camarillo, CA www.jacklockamy.com NOTE: Although Dan C. is a friend of mine, he is not aware of this posting nor did he endorse this message. I am in no way affiliated with www.weathermeister.com. I'm just a a VERY grateful user that appreciates the weather tool Dan has created and wanted to share it with my fellow RV builders/pilots who may not have discovered it yet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Congrats
Date: Nov 09, 2006
Dan Congrats on the Sport Aviation plug on the Sport Air workshop. Good Luck! Frank @ SGU and SLC _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC. Get a free 90-day trial! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg" <greg(at)itmack.com>
Subject: Re: Flush Latch Source ?
Date: Nov 10, 2006
Flush Latch Source ?Aircraft Spruce page 199 # KM610-64 $27.60 Cessna latch Greg RV8 82070 Does anyone know where to find this latch. It's very simple and clean and I would like to use it for an oil door latch. Saw it on a Micco a couple of weeks ago. The link below is to a Fairchild Fasteners catalog but I can't seem to find a source. Any help appreciated. http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/ Vendor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf <<...>> Thanks Bill S 7a engine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2006
From: Finn Lassen <finn.lassen(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Re: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum
Thank you Danny. This is one for the archives! It works! I left a miniral spirits soaked rag on part of the plastic overnight and it now peels right of (or some more stubborn sections scape off easily with a plastic spatula without marring the aluminum). Finn vft(at)aol.com wrote: > Cover the affected area with old towels and soak them with mineral > spirits. You may need to soak them for a few hours but this worked > very well on my F1 project. > > Danny Melnik > F1 #25 > Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory > > > > > > After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic > (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old > RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. > > Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the > material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an > inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic > spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. > > Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? > > Finn ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PGLong(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2006
Subject: Lycoming Data Plate
I've been told that the data plate on my Lycoming 0-230 installed in my RV- 4 is not in compliance with the FAR=99s. The engine has some modificatio ns on it, and I do not maintain an A.D. list, so the engine is experimental. Is it true that only a certified engine can retain its data plate? Who can remove a data plate? How would the FAA handle this situation? Pat Long PGLong(at)aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum
Date: Nov 10, 2006
From: vft(at)aol.com
Cool! I've been mostly lurking on this this for almost 6 years. Glad I was finally able to contribute. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory -----Original Message----- From: finn.lassen(at)verizon.net Sent: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 10:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Removing white plastic covering from aluminum Thank you Danny. This is one for the archives! It works! I left a miniral spirits soaked rag on part of the plastic overnight and it now peels right of (or some more stubborn sections scape off easily with a plastic spatula without marring the aluminum). Finn vft(at)aol.com wrote: Cover the affected area with old towels and soak them with mineral spirits. You may need to soak them for a few hours but this worked very well on my F1 project. Danny Melnik F1 #25 Melbourne (FL) Rocket Factory After spedning a couple of hours trying to remove the white plastic (with black backing/glue) from the rear wing spar channel of my old RV-4 kit, I'm beginning to question the wisdom of removing it at all. Yes, I checked the archive and the hairdryer/hetgun helps, but the material is so old or fragile that it beaks. I can remove maybe an inch before it breaks, then have to start again with a plastic spartula to get an edge to hold onto to pull, etc. Anybody see any liability in leaving it on? Finn ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister
Date: Nov 10, 2006
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net> Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 6:51 PM Subject: RV-List: Weathermeister> > Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based > tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather > infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After > experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. Speaking for myself... When it comes to FREE, Golden Eagle And Cirrus Software For DUATS can't be beat! Download at http://www.duats.com/cirrus.shtml ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2006
From: "Bob C. " <flyboy.bob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Jack, No doubt Dan appreciates the advertisement (SPAM) but IMHO your just wrong! No doubt Dan;s weather page WAS great!!! But it's NOT FREE anymore???!!! With the 'free' function it will no longer remember your location or allow you to set a radius . .. it's nearly worthless! Without the $5.00 per month fee it doesn't even do route weather. I'm not saying it's not worth it if you fly several trips per month but it's not much good for the occasional flyer anymore. Golden Eagle looks like the only choice now if you don't want to pay a monthly fee! What am I missing??? Regards Bob in SE Iowa On 11/9/06, Jack Lockamy wrote: > > > For those who aren't aware... there is an OUTSTANDING new tool available > for aviation weather info. Check out www.weathermeister.com > > This aviation weather website was developed and is maintained by Dan > Checkoway (aka 'Sharpie') who is a SoCAL RV-7 builder/formation pilot and > frequent contributor to Kitplanes Magazine. Many of you have probably > visited his RV-7 website.... www.rvproject.com. Hands down the best RV > builder website on the internet. > > Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based > tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather > infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After > experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. > > Weathermeister.com displays numerous weather charts, winds aloft info, > best economy and best speed altitudes to fly based on up-to-the-minute winds > aloft data, TFRs, forecast weather conditions at your destination and > airports under your flight path, and much, much more. > > If you sign up for the premium service ($4.95 monthly or $49.95 > yearly...), you can store your own aircraft info and frequently flown > cross-country routes that will accurately give you fuel burn, ETE, etc. The > premium service is an unbelievable value once you see how powerful, and easy > to use the tools available really are. I encourage everyone to visit > www.weathermeister.com., evaluate it's awesome capabilities, and sign-up > for the premium service to keep the site alive! (NOTE: The Premium service > provides a LOT more info than the free site.) > > As a government employee, I still don't understand how a fellow like Dan > Checkoway can single-handedly provide such a useful tool for evaluating > flight weather conditions when the entire government (read FAA...) can not > provide readable or barely understandable weather info to us. > Weathermeister.com displays it all so clearly. > > If you haven't checked out www.weathermeister.com, you owe it to yourself > to try it. I use it EVERY time I intend to fly... > > Tell a friend about the site. They WILL thank you!!! > > Jack Lockamy > RV-7A N174JL 250 hrs. > Camarillo, CA > www.jacklockamy.com > > NOTE: Although Dan C. is a friend of mine, he is not aware of this > posting nor did he endorse this message. I am in no way affiliated with > www.weathermeister.com. I'm just a a VERY grateful user that appreciates > the weather tool Dan has created and wanted to share it with my fellow RV > builders/pilots who may not have discovered it yet. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Patrick Kelley" <webmaster(at)flion.com>
Subject: Finally, my website is updated
Date: Nov 10, 2006
I know, it's been ages. And it's only a -6A, not even one of the newer ones. But if you're interested, I've updated my pages and you can see the current progress. Or you can drop in at Flagstaff Pulliam Airport and visit, if you're in the area and I'm available. Next week would be good; Aluminum Overcast will be here Tuesday and Wednesday for flights and tours, and I'm planning to be at the airport to help out. Feel free to drop in. PatK - RV-6A - http://www.flion.com/rv6a/Default.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Golden Eagle
Date: Nov 10, 2006
I travel with my notebook computer to get weather. Am I the only one that has had the FREE Golden Eagle FlightPrep software CRASH on me while I was on a trip in need of weather? It has CRASHED several times on the road. I have also had problems updating the database while on the road. Every time the database needs updated, it appears like they make it harder to do so that you go get their PAID for it software. I still HAD the OLD Cirrus program installed and I also have Jeppsen FlightStar so all was not lost. I still ended up using http://www.rvproject.com/wx which is now http://www.weathermeister.com to get the most useful info in the least time. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,964 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:06:27 -0600 Speaking for myself... When it comes to FREE, Golden Eagle And Cirrus Software For DUATS can't be beat! Download at http://www.duats.com/cirrus.shtml _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Date: Nov 10, 2006
Holy Moly!! Before I type anything, let me wave my hands to get rid of the smoke from that previous email. I went to Dan's Weathermeister website and jumped on it like a horny toad. I LUV IT!!!! I am more than happy to contribute my buckinos to such an outstanding weather website and a great guy. Chill before you drill... Have a goodun! Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Bob C. To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 3:39 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister (SPAM) Jack, No doubt Dan appreciates the advertisement (SPAM) but IMHO your just wrong! No doubt Dan;s weather page WAS great!!! But it's NOT FREE anymore???!!! With the 'free' function it will no longer remember your location or allow you to set a radius . .. it's nearly worthless! Without the $5.00 per month fee it doesn't even do route weather. I'm not saying it's not worth it if you fly several trips per month but it's not much good for the occasional flyer anymore. Golden Eagle looks like the only choice now if you don't want to pay a monthly fee! What am I missing??? Regards Bob in SE Iowa On 11/9/06, Jack Lockamy wrote: For those who aren't aware... there is an OUTSTANDING new tool available for aviation weather info. Check out www.weathermeister.com This aviation weather website was developed and is maintained by Dan Checkoway (aka 'Sharpie') who is a SoCAL RV-7 builder/formation pilot and frequent contributor to Kitplanes Magazine. Many of you have probably visited his RV-7 website.... www.rvproject.com. Hands down the best RV builder website on the internet. Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. Weathermeister.com displays numerous weather charts, winds aloft info, best economy and best speed altitudes to fly based on up-to-the-minute winds aloft data, TFRs, forecast weather conditions at your destination and airports under your flight path, and much, much more. If you sign up for the premium service ($4.95 monthly or $49.95 yearly...), you can store your own aircraft info and frequently flown cross-country routes that will accurately give you fuel burn, ETE, etc. The premium service is an unbelievable value once you see how powerful, and easy to use the tools available really are. I encourage everyone to visit www.weathermeister.com., evaluate it's awesome capabilities, and sign-up for the premium service to keep the site alive! (NOTE: The Premium service provides a LOT more info than the free site.) As a government employee, I still don't understand how a fellow like Dan Checkoway can single-handedly provide such a useful tool for evaluating flight weather conditions when the entire government (read FAA...) can not provide readable or barely understandable weather info to us. Weathermeister.com displays it all so clearly. If you haven't checked out www.weathermeister.com, you owe it to yourself to try it. I use it EVERY time I intend to fly... Tell a friend about the site. They WILL thank you!!! Jack Lockamy RV-7A N174JL 250 hrs. Camarillo, CA www.jacklockamy.com NOTE: Although Dan C. is a friend of mine, he is not aware of this posting nor did he endorse this message. I am in no way affiliated with www.weathermeister.com. I'm just a a VERY grateful user that appreciates the weather tool Dan has created and wanted to share it with my fellow RV builders/pilots who may not have discovered it yet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <dburton(at)nwlink.com>
Subject: Golden Eagle
Date: Nov 10, 2006
Ditto on Golden Turkey. I've given up on it and gone back to using my old copy of Cirrus. Dan's program is awesome. I don't know how he comes up with such elegant solutions to problems that others fumble around with. We're just lucky he's shared them with us... Dave Burton Rv6, building -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of RV6 Flyer Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 3:45 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Golden Eagle I travel with my notebook computer to get weather. Am I the only one that has had the FREE Golden Eagle FlightPrep software CRASH on me while I was on a trip in need of weather? It has CRASHED several times on the road. I have also had problems updating the database while on the road. Every time the database needs updated, it appears like they make it harder to do so that you go get their PAID for it software. I still HAD the OLD Cirrus program installed and I also have Jeppsen FlightStar so all was not lost. I still ended up using http://www.rvproject.com/wx which is now http://www.weathermeister.com to get the most useful info in the least time. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,964 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:06:27 -0600 Speaking for myself... When it comes to FREE, Golden Eagle And Cirrus Software For DUATS can't be beat! Download at http://www.duats.com/cirrus.shtml _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Weathermeister
Date: Nov 10, 2006
I kinda thought everyone knew about Flight Planner. It's also a free service, it will take your flight plans and file them automatically at whatever time you like, uses your particular aircraft data or set up your own for the RVs. Calculates your time in route with current winds, fuel burn, has charts, approaches, etc, cheap gas service, weather, notams, etc. Prints out a great flight plan with winds, frequencies, FBO phone numbers, etc.. It will print a nice enroute weather report with no tams and TAFs with times current to your zone. Just register and there is no cost, the advertisers and FBOs pick up the tab. Link is http://www.fltplan.com/index.htm Here is another fun free site for tracking flights while they are in the air. Tracks anyone on a filed IFR plan and runs about 2 minutes behind. My wife loves it because she can tell when I left and where I am and when I should be on the ground. http://flightaware.com/ Hope this helps Bill S 7a engine _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob C. Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 3:40 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister (SPAM) Jack, No doubt Dan appreciates the advertisement (SPAM) but IMHO your just wrong! No doubt Dan;s weather page WAS great!!! But it's NOT FREE anymore???!!! With the 'free' function it will no longer remember your location or allow you to set a radius . .. it's nearly worthless! Without the $5.00 per month fee it doesn't even do route weather. I'm not saying it's not worth it if you fly several trips per month but it's not much good for the occasional flyer anymore. Golden Eagle looks like the only choice now if you don't want to pay a monthly fee! What am I missing??? Regards Bob in SE Iowa On 11/9/06, Jack Lockamy wrote: For those who aren't aware... there is an OUTSTANDING new tool available for aviation weather info. Check out www.weathermeister.com This aviation weather website was developed and is maintained by Dan Checkoway (aka 'Sharpie') who is a SoCAL RV-7 builder/formation pilot and frequent contributor to Kitplanes Magazine. Many of you have probably visited his RV-7 website.... www.rvproject.com. Hands down the best RV builder website on the internet. Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. After experiencing www.weathermeister.com, you will NEVER go back to DUATS. Weathermeister.com displays numerous weather charts, winds aloft info, best economy and best speed altitudes to fly based on up-to-the-minute winds aloft data, TFRs, forecast weather conditions at your destination and airports under your flight path, and much, much more. If you sign up for the premium service ($4.95 monthly or $49.95 yearly...), you can store your own aircraft info and frequently flown cross-country routes that will accurately give you fuel burn, ETE, etc. The premium service is an unbelievable value once you see how powerful, and easy to use the tools available really are. I encourage everyone to visit www.weathermeister.com., evaluate it's awesome capabilities, and sign-up for the premium service to keep the site alive! (NOTE: The Premium service provides a LOT more info than the free site.) As a government employee, I still don't understand how a fellow like Dan Checkoway can single-handedly provide such a useful tool for evaluating flight weather conditions when the entire government (read FAA...) can not provide readable or barely understandable weather info to us. Weathermeister.com displays it all so clearly. If you haven't checked out www.weathermeister.com, you owe it to yourself to try it. I use it EVERY time I intend to fly... Tell a friend about the site. They WILL thank you!!! Jack Lockamy RV-7A N174JL 250 hrs. Camarillo, CA www.jacklockamy.com NOTE: Although Dan C. is a friend of mine, he is not aware of this posting nor did he endorse this message. I am in no way affiliated with www.weathermeister.com. I'm just a a VERY grateful user that appreciates the weather tool Dan has created and wanted to share it with my fellow RV builders/pilots who may not have discovered it yet. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Golden Eagle
Date: Nov 10, 2006
I have been very happy with the AOPA Flight Planner, but it won't work on my Mac. Then again, DUATS is still free and is quite good. David Maib 40559 On Nov 10, 2006, at 5:44 PM, RV6 Flyer wrote: I travel with my notebook computer to get weather. Am I the only one that has had the FREE Golden Eagle FlightPrep software CRASH on me while I was on a trip in need of weather? It has CRASHED several times on the road. I have also had problems updating the database while on the road. Every time the database needs updated, it appears like they make it harder to do so that you go get their PAID for it software. I still HAD the OLD Cirrus program installed and I also have Jeppsen FlightStar so all was not lost. I still ended up using http:// www.rvproject.com/wx which is now http://www.weathermeister.com to get the most useful info in the least time. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,964 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net> Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:06:27 -0600 Speaking for myself... When it comes to FREE, Golden Eagle And Cirrus Software For DUATS can't be beat! Download at http://www.duats.com/cirrus.shtml _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide
Date: Nov 10, 2006
I just drilled a 1/8" hole just outboard of the fuselage in the lowest part of F826 and F827, the fuselage bottom skins that are attached the inboard bottom wing skin. Their purpose is to drain water that collects there when the RV8A sits outside in the rain. I keep it outside on tie down all the time. It just occured to me that I may have provided a path for exhaust products to be sucked into the cockpit. Could you comment on the likelyhood of this possibility? The holes are located 23 inches forward from the trailing edge of the flap when it is fully raised. Come to think of it, why don't exhaust products get sucked into the cockpit through the aileron pushrod and flap pushrod holes? Is it the draftyness of our cockpits that saves us? Dave Reel - RV8A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 10, 2006
Subject: Re: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide
Hi Dave- FWIW, if the drain holes are at the outside edges of the fuse where the in-flight air pressures are largely affected by the wing airfoil, they may actually be drawing air OUT of the fuselage- see this airfoil diagram: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5255 This is largely speculative on my part and may or may not apply in your case as the pressures may be different at your actual location- you could always test for CO with a tester in the cabin to be sure- cheap peace-of-mind dontchaknow... Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 10, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Wiki...
Dear Listers, I added a new Wiki web site to the Matronics Email List features earlier this year. What's a Wiki, you ask? Well, here's the Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiki) definition: A wiki (IPA: [ w .ki ] or [ wi .ki ] ) is a type of Web site that allows the visitors themselves to easily add, remove, and otherwise edit and change some available content, sometimes without the need for registration. This ease of interaction and operation makes a wiki an effective tool for collaborative authoring. The term wiki also can refer to the collaborative software itself (wiki engine) that facilitates the operation of such a Web site, or to certain specific wiki sites, including the computer science site (an original wiki), WikiWikiWeb, and on-line encyclopedias such as Wikipedia. Under the Matronics Email List Moniker, there is now a very nice List-specific Wiki available! It a place for Listers to put articles about any aviation topic that suits them. The purpose is to provide what the mailing lists do not: structure and persistence. The mailing lists are a fantastic resource to ask a question and get good (and bad and funny and annoying) answers. But once the question is asked and answered it is not in front of the List anymore. If a new person subscribes the next day, he/she does not see that information unless he/she goes to the trouble to search the archives, a hit or miss proposition. The result is that the same thread of conversation gets created and/or revisited. There are several things that happen as a result: 1. The person gets his or her question answered; 2. The information gets better as more people think about and answer the question; 3. The people who have seen the same question asked and answered get annoyed at seeing the same things over and over and over and ... So this is where the Wiki comes in. You know what questions you wanted answered. You may have asked or answered the question. You know the information is useful. So you put the information here, in the Matronics Email List Wiki! It doesn't matter that this information is 100% complete or correct. Just writing something creates a placeholder and makes useful information available immediately. It has the same immediacy as the mailing list but it has persistence and structure. But what if the information is incomplete or incorrect? No problem! Anyone else coming along can edit the article! If I write something and you discover something I have left out or stated incorrectly, you can fix it right then! So let's begin and make this the place for information about building, flying, maintaining, and understanding our airplanes. But what about whether something is "appropriate" or not? Don't worry. Write it down. Let the reader determine whether or not it is appropriate. If it is, he/she will read it. If it isn't, he/she won't. It's as simple as that. And when you do write that article you won't have to worry about whether some editor is going to decide whether or not to print it in a newsletter or whether the webmaster will have time to put it up on the web page. The last question I hear brewing out there is: if anyone can post anything, won't this just become a mass of garbage? Surprisingly, the answer is a resounding no. If you want proof, go visit the Wikipedia, a free-to-everyone encyclopedia written by whoever wants to write articles. The articles there are as good as anything I have read anywhere and anyone can add anything anytime they want to. So don't hesitate. Write it down. Put it here. It will never hurt anyone. The more information we get here, the more useful it will become to other people and the more information they will put here for YOU to use. Here's the URL to start (there are lots more bured under this starting place): http://www.matronics.com/wiki/index.php/Matronics:Community_Portal But please don't forget that this Wiki and all of the other Matronics Email List features are supported solely by YOUR Contributions!! November is List Fund Raiser month and there are lots of Free Gifts to be had with your qualifying Contribution. Please make a Contribution to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great services!!! Thank you! http://www.matronics.com/contribution Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russ & Marilyn" <rmkeith(at)gwi.net>
Subject: Re: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide
Date: Nov 11, 2006
You could install a drain hole cover like tie ones found on fabric covered float planes. The cover should produce a vacuum when the AC is in motion. Russ Keith RV9A ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> Sent: Friday, November 10, 2006 10:28 PM Subject: RV-List: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide > > I just drilled a 1/8" hole just outboard of the fuselage in the lowest > part > of > F826 and F827, the fuselage bottom skins that are attached the inboard > bottom wing skin. Their purpose is to drain water that collects there > when > the RV8A sits outside > in the rain. I keep it outside on tie down all the time. It just occured > to me that I may have provided a path for exhaust products to be sucked > into > the cockpit. Could you comment on the likelyhood of this possibility? > The > holes are located 23 inches forward from the trailing edge of the flap > when > it is fully raised. > > Come to think of it, why don't exhaust products get sucked into the > cockpit > through the aileron pushrod and flap pushrod holes? Is it the draftyness > of > our cockpits that saves us? > > Dave Reel - RV8A > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide
Date: Nov 11, 2006
Ask anyone that has a SMOKE system how much smoke gets in the cockpit if you pull Gs and have the air vents closed. There is a lot of leakage IN to the cockpit of an RV-6. Close all the vents, pull 2 or more Gs, and the cockpit will fill with smoke. In straight and level, you also will get smoke in the cockpit IF all the vents are closed but it takes a lot longer and there is a LOT less. With all the vents open, there is no problem. I know, more POLUTION. Smoke oil is nothing but Concrete form release oil. The EPA recommendation on disposal is VAPORIZATION. That is what people with smoke systems are going and it is the best test there is to find out how much carbon monoxide is getting into your airplane. The amount of smoke that gets in without any drain holes is large compaired to what you will get in through the addition of drain holes. Please do not ask me how I know this. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,964 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA ----Original Message Follows---- From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> Subject: RV-List: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 22:28:31 -0500 I just drilled a 1/8" hole just outboard of the fuselage in the lowest part of F826 and F827, the fuselage bottom skins that are attached the inboard bottom wing skin. Their purpose is to drain water that collects there when the RV8A sits outside in the rain. I keep it outside on tie down all the time. It just occured to me that I may have provided a path for exhaust products to be sucked into the cockpit. Could you comment on the likelyhood of this possibility? The holes are located 23 inches forward from the trailing edge of the flap when it is fully raised. Come to think of it, why don't exhaust products get sucked into the cockpit through the aileron pushrod and flap pushrod holes? Is it the draftyness of our cockpits that saves us? Dave Reel - RV8A _________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FLYaDIVE(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 11, 2006
Subject: Re: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide
In a message dated 11/11/2006 7:58:18 AM Eastern Standard Time, rmkeith(at)gwi.net writes: You could install a drain hole cover like tie ones found on fabric covered float planes. The cover should produce a vacuum when the AC is in motion. Russ Keith RV9A =========================== Guys: There are SCUPPER vents that can be purchased at your local chandlery (Ship's Store) that are easy to mount. BUT! They don't work either. I spent two years hunting down CO leaks in an RV-6. And the cure was to install automotive curved exhaust extensions. The cost was about $10 each which includes the hardware clamps. The results are ZERO (0) CO showing up on the monitor. I tried everything ... you name it ... I'd bet I tried it. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2006
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
> >I apologize if you consider my post regarding 'Weathermeister.com' as >SPAM. It never crossed my mind that it was either SPAM or an >advertisement for the site or Dan Checkoway. > >I am extremely impressed with the weather info and it's capabilities and >thought I was doing the RV commmunity a favor by mentioning the site to >others who may not be aware of it. > >In the future, I will keep my opinions and recommendations to myself and >STAY in the lurker mode.... I see nothing wrong with pilot input on good and bad products. Personally I am not happy that the winds/weather info provided by Dan's website is now a fee-based service but such is life. Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom Lutgring" <tlutgring(at)cox.net>
Subject: Filter airbox missing part.
Date: Nov 11, 2006
Hello, I am looking for some help identifying a part. In the filter airbox kit there are 5 filter retainer clips part number VA-131-D. These clips hold the filter to the oval shape inside the airbox. Looking at the drawing and directions I believe these parts are fabricated from a piece of supplied angle. My paperwork shows that I inventoried this part last year, but I cannot locate it now. Does anyone know what type of angle Vans supplied for this? Thankyou, Tom, RV-9A, getting close. Ohio ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2006
From: "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Drain holes & Carbon Monoxide
On 11/10/06, DAVID REEL wrote: > > > I just drilled a 1/8" hole just outboard of the fuselage in the lowest > part > of > F826 and F827, the fuselage bottom skins that are attached the inboard > bottom wing skin. Their purpose is to drain water that collects there > when > the RV8A sits outside > in the rain. I keep it outside on tie down all the time. It just occured > to me that I may have provided a path for exhaust products to be sucked > into > the cockpit. Could you comment on the likelyhood of this > possibility? The > holes are located 23 inches forward from the trailing edge of the flap > when > it is fully raised. > > Come to think of it, why don't exhaust products get sucked into the > cockpit > through the aileron pushrod and flap pushrod holes? Is it the draftyness > of > our cockpits that saves us? > > Dave Reel - RV8A > > Dave, I get a wiff of exhaust when I deploy my flaps. It does appear to come through the flap actuator holes. My problem is worse than others because 1) my exhaust is farther forward and displaced to the port side. And 2) I moved my flap actuator over to the port side of the baggage area which required a hole in the port flap weldiment inspection cover. (there are a couple pictures on my website if you want to see) I fixed most of the problem by sealing up the leaks around that inspection cover. The CO was never bad enough to change the color of the chemical sensor, but I'm sure the electronic versions would tell a different story. In general, there seems to be enough cabin ventilation that the effects are not significant. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill Schlatterer" <billschlatterer(at)sbcglobal.net>
Date: Nov 11, 2006
Subject: RE: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ?
Dave thanks, do they have a website or phone number. Google just turns up a bunch of bed and breakfast places ;-) Thanks Bill S _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dave Henderson Sent: Tuesday, November 07, 2006 9:53 AM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] RV-List: RE: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ? Yes, that is what I used. B&B Sales sell them, $5.00 each. They work VERY well. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv7-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bill Schlatterer Sent: Monday, November 06, 2006 8:06 PM Subject: RV7-List: Flush Latch Source ? Does anyone know where to find this latch. It's very simple and clean and I would like to use it for an oil door latch. Saw it on a Micco a couple of weeks ago. The link below is to a Fairchild Fasteners catalog but I can't seem to find a source. Any help appreciated. <http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/Ve ndor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf> http://www-glast.slac.stanford.edu/MechanicalSystems/Analysis/References/Ven dor/Other/camloc_ram-h.pdf <<...>> Thanks Bill S 7a engine ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 11, 2006
Subject: [ Matthew M. Jurotich ] : New Email List Photo Share Available!
From: Email List Photo Shares <pictures(at)matronics.com>
A new Email List Photo Share is available: Poster: Matthew M. Jurotich Lists: RV-List Subject: Please help identify this filter http://www.matronics.com/photoshare/mjurotich@hst.nasa.gov.11.11.2006/index.html ---------------------------------------------------------- o Main Photo Share Index http://www.matronics.com/photoshare o Submitting a Photo Share If you wish to submit a Photo Share of your own, please include the following information along with your email message and files: 1) Email List or Lists that they are related to: 2) Your Full Name: 3) Your Email Address: 4) One line Subject description: 5) Multi-line, multi-paragraph description of topic: 6) One-line Description of each photo or file: Email the information above and your files and photos to: pictures(at)matronics.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Drain holes
Date: Nov 11, 2006
The site picture of air pressure around a flying wing at http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5255 is pretty puzzling. I would think a pressure greater than that atop the wing would have to exist under the wing at positive angles of attack to produce lift. The Bernoulli principle would explain the negative pressure atop the wing. But the site picture shows a negative pressure beneath the wing that appears about equal to that on top. ???? Dave ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: ADS-B
Date: Nov 11, 2006
I attended a lecture at AOPA convention given by the FAA subgroup that is implementing ADS-B. According to these folks, the administrator has committed the FAA to making it work all over the country. It'll take years to do, but someday we'll be able to get inflight weather and traffic displayed for free. At some point, maybe ten years from now, the airborne component that broadcasts position and vector info will be required to fly near big airports as transponders are now. Transponders may or may not go away sometime later. They haven't figured it out. TIS may or may not continue to be supported. I'm not going to be buying a mode S transponder anytime soon. The other airborne component that receives and displays uploaded info from the ground stations will be optional. Right now, the equipment is real ass expensive. Now that the FAA has committed to it, more manufacturers will start to make equipment for it and all these software folks will support it on their displays. Maybe they'll get smart and come up with some sort of open architecture so the receivers will interface with different brands of display equipment. It should become more affordable as time goes by. XM weather is great, and at $50/mo, not worth it on the left side of the Rockies, at least not to me. The price of admission for ADS-B won't be cheap, but at least there won't be a monthly fee on top of it. I'm waiting to see how it shakes out. Pax, Ed Holyoke ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Date: Nov 12, 2006
> So with that said .......like noses and other body parts ........everyone > has an opinion. Some I like and others I think stink. > > Frank @ SGU and SLC ================================= Everyone certainly is entitled to their own opinion, Frank, but not their own facts. OPINION: >Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based >tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather >infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. FACT: >But it's NOT FREE anymore???!!! With the 'free' function it will no longer >remember your location or allow you to set a radius . .. Without the $5.00 >per month fee it doesn't even do route weather. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "nick" <nick(at)nickomalley.co.uk>
Subject: ADS-B
Date: Nov 12, 2006
Hi Ed, Here is a link from a UK company, http://www.kineticavionics.co.uk/LAST.php Who are making a GA ADSB unit, its still undergoing testing but may be of interest to the list. Regards Nick PS I am not affiliated in any way to Kinetic-Avionics, I did buy their basestation unit, to pick up Aircraft with ADSB on board. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ed Holyoke Sent: 12 November 2006 07:17 Subject: RV-List: ADS-B I attended a lecture at AOPA convention given by the FAA subgroup that is implementing ADS-B. According to these folks, the administrator has committed the FAA to making it work all over the country. It'll take years to do, but someday we'll be able to get inflight weather and traffic displayed for free. At some point, maybe ten years from now, the airborne component that broadcasts position and vector info will be required to fly near big airports as transponders are now. Transponders may or may not go away sometime later. They haven't figured it out. TIS may or may not continue to be supported. I'm not going to be buying a mode S transponder anytime soon. The other airborne component that receives and displays uploaded info from the ground stations will be optional. Right now, the equipment is real ass expensive. Now that the FAA has committed to it, more manufacturers will start to make equipment for it and all these software folks will support it on their displays. Maybe they'll get smart and come up with some sort of open architecture so the receivers will interface with different brands of display equipment. It should become more affordable as time goes by. XM weather is great, and at $50/mo, not worth it on the left side of the Rockies, at least not to me. The price of admission for ADS-B won't be cheap, but at least there won't be a monthly fee on top of it. I'm waiting to see how it shakes out. Pax, Ed Holyoke -- -- No virus found in this outgoing message. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2006
From: Sherman Butler <lsbrv7a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Weathermeister (SPAM)
No one said Dan was not a good guy. He is only providing a very nice solution and format for Government generated information using his computer knowledge. I just do not think it is worth one more low cost of $X.95 per month. It is a marketing response. Frank Stringham wrote: Terry Yes.......Dan has done more for me and my plane than just about anyone on or off the list. Man if I had to pay for his on list and off list advice to me I would have to added a bunch more to the cost of the plane. Sam and Walter's web sites have also added a great deal to my plane. So with that said .......like noses and other body parts ........everyone has an opinion. Some I like and others I think stink. >him and his work, EXCEPT in one case from one "customer". >>You guessed it . someone decided he wasn't quick enough and started >bitching >and badmouthing the guy right here on the RV list, for a FREE service. > > >Dan Checkoway has provided more free and helpful services than anyone else >I >can think of, (with the possible exceptions of Randy Levold and Sam >Buchanon) on or off the RV list. His website is probably the best reference >anywhere in existence about building an RV; his articles in Kit Planes >magazine are excellent, and now I see he is conducting workshops with >SportAir on building RV's for those who want to get a taste of what is in >store for them. He has provided for free this great site for checking and >decoding weather information. Now he has enhanced and expanded it into a Sherman Butler RV-7a Wings Idaho Falls --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2006
Subject: Re: Pressure profile -- was Drain holes
In a message dated 11/11/2006 7:47:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, dreel(at)cox.net writes: The site picture of air pressure around a flying wing at http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5255 is pretty puzzling. I would think a pressure greater than that atop the wing would have to exist under the wing at positive angles of attack to produce lift. The Bernoulli principle would explain the negative pressure atop the wing. But the site picture shows a negative pressure beneath the wing that appears about equal to that on top. ???? Dave Dave, I thought the picture was really amazing. It is the DIFFERENCE in pressure that causes lift. Also, don't forget that Neuton is right too. The air that leaves the wing has to have downwash, which it will since the air on top got speeded up (more than the air on the bottom). At least that's how I look at it. OK, lets hear from the real experts! Dan Hopper RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PGLong(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 12, 2006
Subject: Mechanical Tachometer repair
My 2.25" mechanical tachometer with hour meter gave up the ghost. The tachometer still works fine but the hour meter portion quit. Is there anyone that repairs these items? I would install a Hobbs type hour meter, but I kind of like the reduced hours I put on when putting around at reduced power levels. Pat Long PGLong(at)aol.com N120PL RV4 Bay City, Michigan 3CM Do Not Archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Frank Stringham" <fstringham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Date: Nov 12, 2006
Bob You are right.....but.......apples to oranges......price is one FACT.....some ones cost vs bennefit (to them a fact) is another. Out for ever on this one Frank @ SGU and SLC >From: "Bob 1" <rv3a.1(at)comcast.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: Re: RV-List: Weathermeister (SPAM) >Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2006 05:33:16 -0600 > > >>So with that said .......like noses and other body parts ........everyone >>has an opinion. Some I like and others I think stink. >> >>Frank @ SGU and SLC >================================= > >Everyone certainly is entitled to their own opinion, Frank, but not their >own facts. > >OPINION: >>Dan has created a MASTERPIECE!!! Weathermeister.com is a FREE web-based >>tool that will absolutely change the way you currently get your weather >>infomation when flying locally or coast-to-coast in your RV. > >FACT: >>But it's NOT FREE anymore???!!! With the 'free' function it will no >>longer remember your location or allow you to set a radius . .. Without >>the $5.00 per month fee it doesn't even do route weather. > > _________________________________________________________________ Get today's hot entertainment gossip http://movies.msn.com/movies/hotgossip?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2006
From: bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Subject: Ray Allen Grip stick wiring
Hi: What is the best way to wire the Grip sitck 205 from Ray allen, when you have the one 201, that is the one with only the PTT button. Has any one upgraded, having the plain one? how did you wire, the new one..using the wires that are alreay there? Would like to see it.. Thanks Bert rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 12, 2006
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Just MHO Dan has done a lot for the RV community...! I hope his weather project does him well. He's a smart man! He's helped many. Darrell Reiley RV7A "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: WLAS [Please Read]
Dear Listers, I sat down at the 'ol computer tonight to have a look at a few of the nice comments List Members have been including along with their Contributions this year. I was amazed at how many I found and even more amazed at some of the very nice things Listers have been saying about the Lists and how valuable the they are to them. I've included quite a few of these nice comments below. Please read over some of this great Lister feedback. No doubt you will find that you agree with at least one or two of those comments - maybe all of them! If you find that do, won't you please make a Contribution to support these Lists today!! Its fast and easy with the Matronics List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Don't forget that I've now fully implemented the new *List Fund Raiser Squelch* feature that will automatically intercept any future iterations of my "Please Contribute" messages -- that is, *once you've made YOUR Contribution*! How cool is that? (Make sure the email address you enter along with your Contribution matches exactly your subscribed List email address. An exact match is how it works.) Thank you for your generous Contributions this year and for all the wonderful comments!! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ Absolutely the best deal on the Internet!! -Owen B I love The Matronics... -Robeto B My wife has her soaps & I've got my lists! -Hal B These lists are, indeed, the lifeline of our hobby. -Bob R The best source of information for my a/c. -Tony C The Zenith list is the first thing I read in the morning. -Herbert H You do more good than you can imagine. I wish I'd known about you while I was building my Kitfox, but you are still an after-the-fact resource. -Ben B ..an excellent site. -Ashley M The "List" has been the ultimate help for my Zenith CH 701 project!! -Brian U I appreciate the list being here for me. -Geoff H ..a great service. -William C The List continues to be an interesting and useful facility. -David M Your list is a constant goad to keep me working on my project. -Thomas S ..a great service. -Robert W The Pietenpol list is a great resource. -Benjamin W The Yak-list is Awesome! -James S ..great service. -Robert S The features you have implemented recently have you poised to knock out yahoo groups... -Danny D I like how your forum looks/works and the list service... -Ken E ..great service. -David P Very useful web site. -Wayne E ..a very valuable service. -Chris D Great sites... -Randall R I used to look at [that other] site also but it's gotten so cluttered with advertising that I've stopped looking at it. -Wayne E Without your services, the build would be a grope in the dark... -Fergus K The information and help I've received greatly outweighs the donation... -Lee P ..great service! -Christopher D I really don't think I could be building my plane without the wisdom I find on this list. -William G It really makes building a pleasure. -James P ..great service. -Doug W I'm getting near the end of my build (Europa tri XS) don't think I could have done it with out the help of the forum. -Stanislaus S Marvelous service. Couldn't have done it without you. -Jim G Love the list, this is a wonderful way to help others... -Michael S ..good service. -Derek L The list is responsible for helping me complete this project and educating me in the process. -Jeff D Definitely worth the donation. -Ron L ..great service to the aviation community. -Tony P I have been flying my plane for 5 years (RV-6) but I still get valuable information from this service. -Don N A very helpful site. -Roland S It's a great community to be part of. -David L Great sites. -John C A great place to find and share not only information but to meet people across the country and make lasting relationships. -Uncle Craig Great facility. -Peter H Its a great source of information! -Michael W Great improvements to the List... -Edward A Great service!!! -Rich D ..great resource! -William C ..excellent lists! -Michael S Couldn't have built my RV4 without the list. -Warren M ..a great service... -James N I would not have missed [the list] for anything during the building of my Europa. -Svein J ..another great year. -Robert D ..this [is an] essential builder's resource. -David A ..excellent service. -Gregory B I've learned a huge amount of "stuff" over the past year and look forward to it every day! -Smith M ..a great communication tool... -Jon M Finished building 5 years ago, but still are lurking on your great list! -Lothar K ..a valuable service. At 11:00 pm Matronics is the goto place for my RV questions. -Mike D ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: WLAS [Please Read]
Matt I donated from my paypal account from john(at)lazy8.net but, I am subscribed from another account, rv8(at)lazy8.net hope you can cross it and stop the fund raising messages. John Matt Dralle wrote: > > Dear Listers, > > I sat down at the 'ol computer tonight to have a look at a few of the nice comments List Members have been including along with their Contributions this year. I was amazed at how many I found and even more amazed at some of the very nice things Listers have been saying about the Lists and how valuable the they are to them. > > I've included quite a few of these nice comments below. Please read over some of this great Lister feedback. No doubt you will find that you agree with at least one or two of those comments - maybe all of them! If you find that do, won't you please make a Contribution to support these Lists today!! Its fast and easy with the Matronics List Contribution Web Site: > > http://www.matronics.com/contribution > > Don't forget that I've now fully implemented the new *List Fund Raiser Squelch* feature that will automatically intercept any future iterations of my "Please Contribute" messages -- that is, *once you've made YOUR Contribution*! How cool is that? (Make sure the email address you enter along with your Contribution matches exactly your subscribed List email address. An exact match is how it works.) > > Thank you for your generous Contributions this year and for all the wonderful comments!! > > Matt Dralle > Matronics Email List Administrator > > > ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ > > Absolutely the best deal on the Internet!! > -Owen B > > I love The Matronics... > -Robeto B > > My wife has her soaps & I've got my lists! > -Hal B > > These lists are, indeed, the lifeline of our hobby. > -Bob R > > The best source of information for my a/c. > -Tony C > > The Zenith list is the first thing I read in the morning. > -Herbert H > > You do more good than you can imagine. I wish I'd known > about you while I was building my Kitfox, but you are > still an after-the-fact resource. > -Ben B > > ..an excellent site. > -Ashley M > > The "List" has been the ultimate help for my Zenith > CH 701 project!! > -Brian U > > I appreciate the list being here for me. > -Geoff H > > ..a great service. > -William C > > The List continues to be an interesting and useful facility. > -David M > > Your list is a constant goad to keep me working on my project. > -Thomas S > > ..a great service. > -Robert W > > The Pietenpol list is a great resource. > -Benjamin W > > The Yak-list is Awesome! > -James S > > ..great service. > -Robert S > > The features you have implemented recently have you poised > to knock out yahoo groups... > -Danny D > > I like how your forum looks/works and the list service... > -Ken E > > ..great service. > -David P > > Very useful web site. > -Wayne E > > ..a very valuable service. > -Chris D > > Great sites... > -Randall R > > I used to look at [that other] site also but it's gotten so > cluttered with advertising that I've stopped looking at it. > -Wayne E > > Without your services, the build would be a grope in the dark... > -Fergus K > > The information and help I've received greatly outweighs the > donation... > -Lee P > > ..great service! > -Christopher D > > I really don't think I could be building my plane without the > wisdom I find on this list. > -William G > > It really makes building a pleasure. > -James P > > ..great service. > -Doug W > > I'm getting near the end of my build (Europa tri XS) don't > think I could have done it with out the help of the forum. > -Stanislaus S > > Marvelous service. Couldn't have done it without you. > -Jim G > > Love the list, this is a wonderful way to help others... > -Michael S > > ..good service. > -Derek L > > The list is responsible for helping me complete this project > and educating me in the process. > -Jeff D > > Definitely worth the donation. > -Ron L > > ..great service to the aviation community. > -Tony P > > I have been flying my plane for 5 years (RV-6) but I still > get valuable information from this service. > -Don N > > A very helpful site. > -Roland S > > It's a great community to be part of. > -David L > > Great sites. > -John C > > A great place to find and share not only information but to > meet people across the country and make lasting relationships. > -Uncle Craig > > Great facility. > -Peter H > > Its a great source of information! > -Michael W > > Great improvements to the List... > -Edward A > > Great service!!! > -Rich D > > ..great resource! > -William C > > ..excellent lists! > -Michael S > > Couldn't have built my RV4 without the list. > -Warren M > > ..a great service... > -James N > > I would not have missed [the list] for anything during the > building of my Europa. > -Svein J > > ..another great year. > -Robert D > > ..this [is an] essential builder's resource. > -David A > > ..excellent service. > -Gregory B > > I've learned a huge amount of "stuff" over the past year > and look forward to it every day! > -Smith M > > ..a great communication tool... > -Jon M > > Finished building 5 years ago, but still are lurking on > your great list! > -Lothar K > > ..a valuable service. At 11:00 pm Matronics is the goto > place for my RV questions. > -Mike D > > ================= What Listers Are Saying (WLAS) ================ > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Date: Nov 13, 2006
I sincerely hope that those who have complained about Dan charging $5 for the use of his weather information also quit using his web site to assist you in building your plane. I don't find any of the FREE sites as easy to use as Dan's site. It shocks me to think that people building and flying their own RV wouldn't pony up $5 a month for a great site to make their flight safer and easier to plan. Further, the same people who are complaining I'll bet have used Dan's site extensively. Knowing Dan, he probably has the methodology to track who has visited and how much. I'm fairly confident that Dan isn't ready to order a new Whizbang 5000 as a result of his bank account growing. Finally, think of this. If you eliminate any one of the following list PER MONTH you could have Weathermeister. 1 fast food meal 1 fancy coffee drink 1 magazine off a rack 1 carwash (do it yourself) 1 pack of cigarettes for those who smoke 4 Big Gulps 1 pay per view movie .5 delivered pizza You get the point. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ RV7 N717EE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Darwin N. Barrie" <ktlkrn(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: ADS-B
Date: Nov 13, 2006
I agree with Tim on this. The implementation of the ADS-B will take considerable time, up to 10 years. Further the TIS system will be active for years despite it being decommed in a few areas. And, I don't think ADS-B will render all of the current transponders obsolete. When I was building and planning to use the Garmin 330S coupled with my Garmin 430 for traffic many thought I was wasting money. Nothing could be farther from the truth. I did spend approximately $1800 more for the 330S over the 327 but the cost/benefit ratio is there. My home airport is under the Class B of Phx Sky Harbor. A lot is going on. Additionally, I'm only 5 miles from Chandler Airport where there is a ton of training in both FW and helicopters. Much of this with people who barely speak English and are not familiar with the area. The TIS has been invaluable in avoiding traffic. There are times when when sunlight conditions, haziness etc.... don't give you a good look out side. The TIS gives you target distance, position, direction of travel, altitude above/below you. With this you can usually spot traffic that you might not have otherwise seen. Some too close for comfort. If you are in this phase of planning and live in an area where you'd benefit definitely give it some thought. Money well spent. Especially considering the overall cost of the project. Darwin N. Barrie Chandler AZ RV7 N717EE ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: aircraft kit data
Date: Nov 13, 2006
I've made an Excel spreadsheet of kit aircraft data, and put it up on my web site. I'm sure it still contains lots of errors and omissions, but I thought I'd get it out to people while I continue to perfect it. Please let me know of any errors or omissions, and I'll keep it updated on an ongoing basis for the benefit of all homebuilders. Please feel free to copy this link & info to other homebuilders' lists. brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/misc.htm#directory -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 7:34 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Smitty I think you are missing the point. Lighten up.... do not archieve > So, I take it that if I find a great product or service that can help > another builder, I am going to be accused of being a Spammer? > > Lighten up.... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Weathermeister (SPAM)
On 11/12/06, Bob C. wrote: > Nobody said it wasn't worth it . . . It probably is worth it if you fly a > number of trips. > > But the original email in this chain said it was FREE . . . it's NOT and > that's OK . . . it's just not accurate to say it's FREE when it's not! > > Bob, there is a portions of Weathermiester that is still free, and it is very valuable. Except for winds, it is basicly what he was offering for free before the big upgrade. -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: 5702-75-060 Washer
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com>
Monday morning - can't get through to Vans. Have hung the tail and am now connecting the elevator push rods on my -8A QB. Drawing 25 shows F-840 and F-839 connecting to the aft stick wiedement WD-412A. However, for the aft connection only, the drawing specifies two 5702-75-060 washers. What the hell is a 5702-75-060 washer? I checked the hardware sections of the both the Standard Aircraft Handbook and AC 43.13-1B and couldn't find it. Paul Valovich Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: 5702-75-060 Washer
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Hi Paul, I think they were the small outside diameter washers that I used to put next to the bearings. They are only as big around as the bearing surface so they don't cause any clamping of the bearing. None came in my kit (-6) but I ordered some from Van's. Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Valovich, Paul Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 8:15 AM Subject: RV-List: 5702-75-060 Washer Monday morning - can't get through to Vans. Have hung the tail and am now connecting the elevator push rods on my -8A QB. Drawing 25 shows F-840 and F-839 connecting to the aft stick wiedement WD-412A. However, for the aft connection only, the drawing specifies two 5702-75-060 washers. What the hell is a 5702-75-060 washer? I checked the hardware sections of the both the Standard Aircraft Handbook and AC 43.13-1B and couldn't find it. Paul Valovich Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JAMES BOWEN" <jabowenjr(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: 5702-75-060 Washer
Date: Nov 13, 2006
I use the inventory list as a guide sometimes. Jim RV-8 >From: "Valovich, Paul" <pvalovich(at)dcscorp.com> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: 5702-75-060 Washer >Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 11:15:17 -0500 > >Monday morning - can't get through to Vans. Have hung the tail and am >now connecting the elevator push rods on my -8A QB. Drawing 25 shows >F-840 and F-839 connecting to the aft stick wiedement WD-412A. However, >for the aft connection only, the drawing specifies two 5702-75-060 >washers. > > >What the hell is a 5702-75-060 washer? I checked the hardware sections >of the both the Standard Aircraft Handbook and AC 43.13-1B and couldn't >find it. > >Paul Valovich > >Ridgecrest, CA > _________________________________________________________________ Live Search! ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Trip to Vans
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "Stephanie Marshall" <smarshall(at)netsystems.net>
Hey everyone, Since our move to Wichita I have been really out of the loop, but hopefully SOON things will start up again with the building. (www.rv-8.org <http://www.rv-8.org/> ) We are going to be ordering our wings next month, and we are planning a trip to Oregon to pick them up (and see family) probably in February. Does anyone want to help us with gas in exchange for us picking up things (like wings or fuselage) for them? We have a 3500 Dodge diesel and we are taking our 20 foot trailer as well (http://www.rv-8.org/date_index/20050618.htm). If you want to talk about it drop me a line! Cheers, Stephanie Marshall smarshall(at)NetSystems.com www.rv-8.info <http://www.rv-8.info/> www.baron-rose.com <http://www.baron-rose.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: how to handle grip switch wiring
Date: Nov 13, 2006
How are people dealing with handling the moving wires in the case of a plane with control stick grip switches? It seems the least amount of wiring movement would be had if I drill a hole in the side of the stick (this is RV-7A, but presumably same situation for all RV models) right near the weld, closest to the pivot point. But it would be extremely difficult to feed wires down the tube, then get them to make a 90 degree turn out the side of the stick. In the case of Infinity Aerospace grips with the wire bundle having about a dozen wires in it and being -5/16 in diameter, this would be even more difficult. If the wires are run out the bottom of the stick, it looks like the wires will have to be moving around quite a bit with the stick. I can see leaving enough slack to allow for the full range of stick movement, but I am concerned about causing fatigue in the wires with so much constant wire movement. It will also have to be carefully laid out so it cant catch on anything. I know lots of people have RVs with stick grip switches. How are others handling this? Thanks, brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm -- No virus found in this outgoing message. 7:34 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Oliver Washburn" <ollie6a(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: how to handle grip switch wiring
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Just let it all hang out. 6 years, 1100 hours and they haven't broken yet. Ollie 6A ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: RV-List: how to handle grip switch wiring How are people dealing with handling the moving wires in the case of a plane with control stick grip switches? It seems the least amount of wiring movement would be had if I drill a hole in the side of the stick (this is RV-7A, but presumably same situation for all RV models) right near the weld, closest to the pivot point. But it would be extremely difficult to feed wires down the tube, then get them to make a 90 degree turn out the side of the stick. In the case of Infinity Aerospace grips with the wire bundle having about a dozen wires in it and being =BC"-5/16" in diameter, this would be even more difficult. If the wires are run out the bottom of the stick, it looks like the wires will have to be moving around quite a bit with the stick. I can see leaving enough slack to allow for the full range of stick movement, but I am concerned about causing fatigue in the wires with so much constant wire movement. It will also have to be carefully laid out so it can't catch on anything. I know lots of people have RVs with stick grip switches. How are others handling this? Thanks, brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES Van's Aircraft's entry in the LSA category had its first flight last Thursday. The mini-RV, which sports many of the characteristics of its larger stablemates (bubble canopy and a big, fat wing), was flown by company founder Dick VanGrunsven, who put it through a variety of speed profiles and basic handling tests. "It's far too early to make any statements about what the airplane is like or what it will do, or what the performance numbers may eventually be," said Van's Web site. "We can report that when Van taxied in and opened the swing-up canopy, he was grinning." More... ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Parker Thomas" <me(at)parkerthomas.com>
Subject: VM1000C wire
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Hi - Does anyone know what kind of thermocouple wiring the VM1000C uses and where I can get it? I'm trying to install a VM1000C in my RV-6A. I cut the wire they provided a little generously and came up short. I called them and someone named Jack insists that it is "chromo-alumo" wire that I can get anywhere - though he can't find it in the aircraft spruce catalog or provide part numbers elsewhere or give specifications about its resistance. JPInstruments has several different kinds. I'm worried about using a different kind because it might have a different resistance and generate different readings. On the fourth phone call Jack finally relented and said he could possibly get some out to me - but not until the end of the week even if I send him a fedex label. Vision Microsystems has provided pretty good support to me up until this point, but this whole interchange has been incredibly frustrating. It just shouldn't take 8 phone calls and half a morning to get additional wire. Got any suggestions? Thanks, Parker ____________________________________ F. Parker Thomas phone 510-393-9876 fax 801-382-1974 me(at)parkerthomas.com skype - parker.thomas LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerthomas ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: how to handle grip switch wiring
From: Gerry Filby <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Had similar concerns this last week as I completed the same task. I drilled a hole just above the pivot point so that the wires exited forward. Installed a rubber grommet and fed the wires through the hole first and then up length of the stick. I used excess lengths of wire so I could terminate the wires in the grip and then feed them back down as I installed the grip on the tube. With the wires exiting forward above the pivot point it keeps them out of the way of the moving parts down below and feeds them directly into the wiring loom directly behind the wing spar (RV-9). HTH g > Just let it all hang out. 6 years, 1100 hours and they haven't > broken yet. > > Ollie 6A > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Brian Meyette > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:01 PM > Subject: RV-List: how to handle grip switch wiring > > > How are people dealing with handling the moving wires in the > case of a plane with control stick grip switches? > > > > It seems the least amount of wiring movement would be had if > I drill a hole in the side of the stick (this is RV-7A, but > presumably same situation for all RV models) right near the > weld, closest to the pivot point. But it would be extremely > difficult to feed wires down the tube, then get them to make a > 90 degree turn out the side of the stick. In the case of > Infinity Aerospace grips with the wire bundle having about a > dozen wires in it and being "-5/16" in diameter, this would be > even more difficult. > > > > If the wires are run out the bottom of the stick, it looks > like the wires will have to be moving around quite a bit with > the stick. I can see leaving enough slack to allow for the > full range of stick movement, but I am concerned about causing > fatigue in the wires with so much constant wire movement. It > will also have to be carefully laid out so it can't catch on > anything. > > > > I know lots of people have RVs with stick grip switches. How > are others handling this? > > > > Thanks, > > brian > > http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm > > > > > > > -- __g__ Gerry Filby gerf(at)gerf.com ---------------------------------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Subject: Re: how to handle grip switch wiring
In a message dated 11/13/2006 12:42:01 PM Central Standard Time, brianpublic2(at)starband.net writes: How are people dealing with handling the moving wires in the case of a plane with control stick grip switches? >>>> Here's one approach- has worked well for 370 hours so far: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=7599 Click on the foto for the bigger picture... >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Struyk" <rv8striker(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: how to handle grip switch wiring
Date: Nov 13, 2006
I drilled a hole just above the welds in the rear of the tube. I put a rubber grommet in the hole and ran the wires (bundled six conductor if I recall) up the tube to the grip. At the bottom I attached the cable to the spar with an Adel clamp leaving enough slack to allow full travel in all directions. 75 hours with no problems. Steve Struyk, RV-8 St. Charles MO 75 hours. Doing first annual inspect. ----- Original Message ----- From: Oliver Washburn To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: how to handle grip switch wiring Just let it all hang out. 6 years, 1100 hours and they haven't broken yet. Ollie 6A ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 1:01 PM Subject: RV-List: how to handle grip switch wiring How are people dealing with handling the moving wires in the case of a plane with control stick grip switches? It seems the least amount of wiring movement would be had if I drill a hole in the side of the stick (this is RV-7A, but presumably same situation for all RV models) right near the weld, closest to the pivot point. But it would be extremely difficult to feed wires down the tube, then get them to make a 90 degree turn out the side of the stick. In the case of Infinity Aerospace grips with the wire bundle having about a dozen wires in it and being =BC"-5/16" in diameter, this would be even more difficult. If the wires are run out the bottom of the stick, it looks like the wires will have to be moving around quite a bit with the stick. I can see leaving enough slack to allow for the full range of stick movement, but I am concerned about causing fatigue in the wires with so much constant wire movement. It will also have to be carefully laid out so it can't catch on anything. I know lots of people have RVs with stick grip switches. How are others handling this? Thanks, brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: VM1000C wire
For my VM1000 there are two types of thermocouples and two types of wire. The ones for my cylinder heads are diferent than the ones for the EGT. IIRC they were "I" or "J". http://www.omega.com/prodinfo/ThermocoupleWire.html is one place that I came up with just by typing in 'thermocouple wire' to my search bar......... Make sure that you read the threads on the aeroelectric list archives regarding connectors/bulkheads etc. -----Original Message----- >From: Parker Thomas <me(at)parkerthomas.com> >Sent: Nov 13, 2006 1:55 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: VM1000C wire > >Hi - > > > >Does anyone know what kind of thermocouple wiring the VM1000C uses and where >I can get it? > > > >I'm trying to install a VM1000C in my RV-6A. I cut the wire they provided a >little generously and came up short. I called them and someone named Jack >insists that it is "chromo-alumo" wire that I can get anywhere - though he >can't find it in the aircraft spruce catalog or provide part numbers >elsewhere or give specifications about its resistance. JPInstruments has >several different kinds. I'm worried about using a different kind because >it might have a different resistance and generate different readings. On >the fourth phone call Jack finally relented and said he could possibly get >some out to me - but not until the end of the week even if I send him a >fedex label. > > > >Vision Microsystems has provided pretty good support to me up until this >point, but this whole interchange has been incredibly frustrating. It just >shouldn't take 8 phone calls and half a morning to get additional wire. Got >any suggestions? > > > >Thanks, > > > >Parker > > > > > > > >____________________________________ > >F. Parker Thomas > >phone 510-393-9876 > >fax 801-382-1974 > >me(at)parkerthomas.com > >skype - parker.thomas > >LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerthomas > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Howell" <cfi1513840(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Trip to Vans
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Stephanie, Could you swing by Glenwood Maryland with an RV-7 fuselage? Just kidding (unless of course you would consider it). Good luck to you both on your project. Who's going to sit in the back? Cheers, Ken Howell Glenwood, Maryland RV-7 Wings -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephanie Marshall Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:08 PM Subject: RV-List: Trip to Vans Hey everyone, Since our move to Wichita I have been really out of the loop, but hopefully SOON things will start up again with the building. (www.rv-8.org <http://www.rv-8.org/> ) We are going to be ordering our wings next month, and we are planning a trip to Oregon to pick them up (and see family) probably in February. Does anyone want to help us with gas in exchange for us picking up things (like wings or fuselage) for them? We have a 3500 Dodge diesel and we are taking our 20 foot trailer as well (http://www.rv-8.org/date_index/20050618.htm). If you want to talk about it drop me a line! Cheers, Stephanie Marshall smarshall(at)NetSystems.com www.rv-8.info <http://www.rv-8.info/> www.baron-rose.com <http://www.baron-rose.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: VM1000C wire
Its going to be either K-type or J-type extension wire. If its K-type the ANSI color codes are yellow for V+ and red for V-. If its J-type its going to be white and red respectively. So just look at the colors of the wire, and get the appropriate extension wire (K or J). You can get it from McMaster-Carr. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 11/13/06, Parker Thomas wrote: > > Hi ' > > > Does anyone know what kind of thermocouple wiring the VM1000C uses and > where I can get it? > > > I'm trying to install a VM1000C in my RV-6A. I cut the wire they provide d > a little generously and came up short. I called them and someone named J ack > insists that it is "chromo-alumo" wire that I can get anywhere ' though he > can't find it in the aircraft spruce catalog or provide part numbers > elsewhere or give specifications about its resistance. JPInstruments has > several different kinds. I'm worried about using a different kind becaus e > it might have a different resistance and generate different readings. On > the fourth phone call Jack finally relented and said he could possibly ge t > some out to me ' but not until the end of the week even if I send him a > fedex label. > > > Vision Microsystems has provided pretty good support to me up until this > point, but this whole interchange has been incredibly frustrating. It ju st > shouldn't take 8 phone calls and half a morning to get additional wire. Got > any suggestions? > > > Thanks, > > > Parker > > > ____________________________________ > > F. Parker Thomas > > phone 510-393-9876 > > fax 801-382-1974 > > me(at)parkerthomas.com > > skype - parker.thomas > > LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerthomas > > > * > =========== =========== =========== > > * > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: VM1000C wire
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Ralph, The VM100C is completely different than the VM1000. The VM1000 uses a DPU but the VM1000c wires directly to the gauge and uses different sensors. I have no idea if the wires are the same or not, but thought I would mention this. VM is probably still trying to get up to speed with their move to Texas. I plan to fly down there one day very soon so I can get a new oil pressure transducer. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:48 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: VM1000C wire > > > For my VM1000 there are two types of thermocouples and two types of wire. > The ones > for my cylinder heads are diferent than the ones for the EGT. IIRC they > were "I" > or "J". > > http://www.omega.com/prodinfo/ThermocoupleWire.html is one place that I > came up > with just by typing in 'thermocouple wire' to my search bar......... > > Make sure that you read the threads on the aeroelectric list archives > regarding > connectors/bulkheads etc. > > -----Original Message----- > >From: Parker Thomas <me(at)parkerthomas.com> > >Sent: Nov 13, 2006 1:55 PM > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: VM1000C wire > > > >Hi - > > > > > > > >Does anyone know what kind of thermocouple wiring the VM1000C uses and > where > >I can get it? > > > > > > > >I'm trying to install a VM1000C in my RV-6A. I cut the wire they > provided a > >little generously and came up short. I called them and someone named > Jack > >insists that it is "chromo-alumo" wire that I can get anywhere - though > he > >can't find it in the aircraft spruce catalog or provide part numbers > >elsewhere or give specifications about its resistance. JPInstruments has > >several different kinds. I'm worried about using a different kind > because > >it might have a different resistance and generate different readings. On > >the fourth phone call Jack finally relented and said he could possibly > get > >some out to me - but not until the end of the week even if I send him a > >fedex label. > > > > > > > >Vision Microsystems has provided pretty good support to me up until this > >point, but this whole interchange has been incredibly frustrating. It > just > >shouldn't take 8 phone calls and half a morning to get additional wire. > Got > >any suggestions? > > > > > > > >Thanks, > > > > > > > >Parker > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >____________________________________ > > > >F. Parker Thomas > > > >phone 510-393-9876 > > > >fax 801-382-1974 > > > >me(at)parkerthomas.com > > > >skype - parker.thomas > > > >LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerthomas > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: VM1000C wire
I knew there were some differences - maybe the wires and transducers are the same...if they're J / K type.... Thanks, Ralph -----Original Message----- >From: Tim Bryan <n616tb(at)btsapps.com> >Sent: Nov 13, 2006 3:15 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RE: RV-List: VM1000C wire > > >Ralph, > >The VM100C is completely different than the VM1000. The VM1000 uses a DPU >but the VM1000c wires directly to the gauge and uses different sensors. I >have no idea if the wires are the same or not, but thought I would mention >this. > >VM is probably still trying to get up to speed with their move to Texas. I >plan to fly down there one day very soon so I can get a new oil pressure >transducer. > >Tim > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- >> server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ralph E. Capen >> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:48 AM >> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> Subject: Re: RV-List: VM1000C wire >> >> >> For my VM1000 there are two types of thermocouples and two types of wire. >> The ones >> for my cylinder heads are diferent than the ones for the EGT. IIRC they >> were "I" >> or "J". >> >> http://www.omega.com/prodinfo/ThermocoupleWire.html is one place that I >> came up >> with just by typing in 'thermocouple wire' to my search bar......... >> >> Make sure that you read the threads on the aeroelectric list archives >> regarding >> connectors/bulkheads etc. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> >From: Parker Thomas <me(at)parkerthomas.com> >> >Sent: Nov 13, 2006 1:55 PM >> >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >> >Subject: RV-List: VM1000C wire >> > >> >Hi - >> > >> > >> > >> >Does anyone know what kind of thermocouple wiring the VM1000C uses and >> where >> >I can get it? >> > >> > >> > >> >I'm trying to install a VM1000C in my RV-6A. I cut the wire they >> provided a >> >little generously and came up short. I called them and someone named >> Jack >> >insists that it is "chromo-alumo" wire that I can get anywhere - though >> he >> >can't find it in the aircraft spruce catalog or provide part numbers >> >elsewhere or give specifications about its resistance. JPInstruments has >> >several different kinds. I'm worried about using a different kind >> because >> >it might have a different resistance and generate different readings. On >> >the fourth phone call Jack finally relented and said he could possibly >> get >> >some out to me - but not until the end of the week even if I send him a >> >fedex label. >> > >> > >> > >> >Vision Microsystems has provided pretty good support to me up until this >> >point, but this whole interchange has been incredibly frustrating. It >> just >> >shouldn't take 8 phone calls and half a morning to get additional wire. >> Got >> >any suggestions? >> > >> > >> > >> >Thanks, >> > >> > >> > >> >Parker >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >____________________________________ >> > >> >F. Parker Thomas >> > >> >phone 510-393-9876 >> > >> >fax 801-382-1974 >> > >> >me(at)parkerthomas.com >> > >> >skype - parker.thomas >> > >> >LinkedIn - http://www.linkedin.com/in/parkerthomas >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "LarryRobertHelming" <lhelming(at)sigecom.net>
Subject: Re: how to handle grip switch wiring
Date: Nov 13, 2006
You are correct in suggesting drilling a hole for the wires at the point of pivot for the stick. That yields the smallest movement and wear on the wires. Put a loop in the wires coming out and ty wrap it to the rib to avoid chaffing from vibration. Then test it by moving the stick round. Then put that area on your annual check list to see how things are going. You can get the wires out a pretty small hole by using a piece of safety wire with a hook on it. You will probably be doing this more than once. It gets easier the second and third time. You can do it one wire at a time. Just use a slightly bigger hole. (I only had two wires.) Indiana Larry ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 12:01 PM Subject: RV-List: how to handle grip switch wiring How are people dealing with handling the moving wires in the case of a plane with control stick grip switches? It seems the least amount of wiring movement would be had if I drill a hole in the side of the stick (this is RV-7A, but presumably same situation for all RV models) right near the weld, closest to the pivot point. But it would be extremely difficult to feed wires down the tube, then get them to make a 90 degree turn out the side of the stick. In the case of Infinity Aerospace grips with the wire bundle having about a dozen wires in it and being =BC"-5/16" in diameter, this would be even more difficult. If the wires are run out the bottom of the stick, it looks like the wires will have to be moving around quite a bit with the stick. I can see leaving enough slack to allow for the full range of stick movement, but I am concerned about causing fatigue in the wires with so much constant wire movement. It will also have to be carefully laid out so it can't catch on anything. I know lots of people have RVs with stick grip switches. How are others handling this? Thanks, brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Ross" <dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com>
Subject: Skytec 149-12LS starter
Date: Nov 13, 2006
Guys: Anyone have a Skytec 149-12LS starter for sale? I have a fresh rebuilt Kelly Aerospace 18 pounder I need to get off the nose of my -9A project. Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 13, 2006
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Skytec 149-12LS starter
Call Skytec. Sometimes they will sell overhauled at good discount. Dan Ross wrote: > > Guys: Anyone have a Skytec 149-12LS starter for sale? I have a fresh > rebuilt Kelly Aerospace 18 pounder I need to get off the nose of my > -9A project. Dan > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RAS" <deruiteraircraftservices(at)btinternet.com>
Subject: Re: RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES
Date: Nov 14, 2006
The prototype is however not registered in the LSA catagory. It is registered experimental. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:10 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES > > RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES > Van's Aircraft's entry in the LSA category had its first flight last > Thursday. The mini-RV, which sports many of the characteristics of its > larger stablemates (bubble canopy and a big, fat wing), was flown by > company founder Dick VanGrunsven, who put it through a variety of speed > profiles and basic handling tests. "It's far too early to make any > statements about what the airplane is like or what it will do, or what > the performance numbers may eventually be," said Van's Web site. "We > can report that when Van taxied in and opened the swing-up canopy, he > was grinning." More... > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES
Date: Nov 14, 2006
One of the many requirements to register an aircraft as an LSA is that the manufacturer has to state that he has ground and flight tested the aircraft (FAR 21.190 (c)(7). Van has still to demonstrate that the aircraft meets the LSA requirements (stall speed, max speed, etc). There are a whole bunch of paperwork requirements that he would have to comply with to register the aircraft as an LSA. It will be much more practical to register the aircraft as an experimental. Kevin Horton On 14 Nov 2006, at 04:52, RAS wrote: > > > The prototype is however not registered in the LSA catagory. It is > registered experimental. > > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Condon, Philip M." > > To: > Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 7:10 PM > Subject: RV-List: RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES > > >> >> >> RV-12 PROTOTYPE FLIES >> Van's Aircraft's entry in the LSA category had its first flight last >> Thursday. The mini-RV, which sports many of the characteristics of >> its >> larger stablemates (bubble canopy and a big, fat wing), was flown by >> company founder Dick VanGrunsven, who put it through a variety of >> speed >> profiles and basic handling tests. "It's far too early to make any >> statements about what the airplane is like or what it will do, or >> what >> the performance numbers may eventually be," said Van's Web site. "We >> can report that when Van taxied in and opened the swing-up canopy, he >> was grinning." More... >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Local wing skin help
Date: Nov 14, 2006
Hello Everyone, I have a favor to ask. I am in the process of riveting the top skins on my left wing. I was wondering if someone would consider helping me backriveting and bucking the wing skin? My good friend who has been helping me has a really tight schedule and has trouble getting free time to come over. I tried teaching my 11 year son, but while he is a master at the rivet gun now, the bucking bar is just too tough for him. It's been 3 weeks now since I started the skin and I would really like to get it finished. If you live in the Plano, TX area, please email me at smitty(at)smittysrv.com Thanks so much! Smitty Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: 5702-75-060 Washer
Date: Nov 14, 2006
They have a small OD and are used for spacing between the rod-end "ball" and the fork to allow the rod-end room to rotate on the ball without binding on the fork. ----- Original Message ----- From: Valovich, Paul To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 11:15 AM Subject: RV-List: 5702-75-060 Washer Monday morning - can't get through to Vans. Have hung the tail and am now connecting the elevator push rods on my -8A QB. Drawing 25 shows F-840 and F-839 connecting to the aft stick wiedement WD-412A. However, for the aft connection only, the drawing specifies two 5702-75-060 washers. What the hell is a 5702-75-060 washer? I checked the hardware sections of the both the Standard Aircraft Handbook and AC 43.13-1B and couldn't find it. Paul Valovich Ridgecrest, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 14, 2006
From: Jamie Painter <jamie(at)jpainter.org>
Subject: Re: DRE Contact Information
> > Folks, Does anyone have current contact information for DRE. The last phone > number I have for them is 408-993-8220 but it is out of service. Google > searches yielded other non working numbers. I have their intercom and > headsets in my -6 and love them. I am having trouble with the mic boom on > one headset that I want to get repaired. Any information will be greatly > appreciated. > Don: I responded off list but wanted to post here for the archives. Here's a message I posted to the VAF forums about DRE going out of business: 09-07-2006: Hi Folks: I just tried to access the DRE communications website, which is down. I needed their phone number so I used archive.org to look at the site as it last existed. I got the phone number and called it, just to get a line disconnected message. I tried another number listed for 'engineering support', and got a guy named Garth. Nice guy. Anyway, he told me that DRE is no longer in business. Apparently there was some sort of internal lawsuit among the owners and the company was shut down. Garth said some of the folks are starting another company providing the same type of products DRE provided, and Garth can handle your DRE repairs. He's currently helping me with some wiring questions that I have with regard to my 244E. If you have problems with your equipment, he may be able to help you. His number is 562-695-7054. I can't vouch for him (yet), just providing info. Best, Jamie RV-7A Almost Done http://rv.jpainter.org ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Lycoming Data Plate
Date: Nov 14, 2006
Leave it on and carry on. If you ever remove the engine and sell it you w ill then need to make sure the person you sell it to knows that it has been in an experimental aircraft and will need to be checked for AD's and servi ceability. Mike Robertson Das Fed From: PGLong(at)aol.comDate: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 12:08:02 -0500Subject: RV-List: Lycoming Data PlateTo: Rv-list(at)matronics.com I've been told that the data plate on my Lycoming 0-230 installed in my RV- 4 is not in compliance with the FAR=92s. The engine has some modifications on it, and I do not maintain an A.D. list, so the engine is experimental. I s it true that only a certified engine can retain its data plate? Who can r emove a data plate? How would the FAA handle this situation? Pat LongPGLong(at)aol.comN120PLRV4Bay City, Michigan3CM _________________________________________________________________ Use Messenger to talk to your IM friends, even those on Yahoo! http://ideas.live.com/programpage.aspx?versionId=7adb59de-a857-45ba-81cc- 685ee3e858fe ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: LOC
Each year at the end of the List Fund Raiser, I post a message acknowledging everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors (LOC)? As a number of members have pointed out over the years, the List seems at least - if not a whole lot more - valuable as a building/flying/recreating/entertainment tool as your typical magazine subscription! Please take minute and assure that your name is on this year's LOC! Show others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Credit card or Paypal on the Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matt Dralle / Matronics PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! Best regards, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Heathco" <cheathco(at)cox.net>
Subject: Brakes
Date: Nov 15, 2006
Having studied the brake fix with the springs and bolts, I found that the brakes on my 6a has a longer push rod which has springs on them. I have a pulling left problem intermittenly so when taxiing back the other day I pulled off my belt and reached down and made sure the brakes were fully retracted, but still has slicht pull to left. I assume the caliper is not fully retracting and wondered if anyone had experienced this and if so how to fix. Charlie Heathco ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Ross" <dcr(at)fdltownhomes.com>
Subject: Re: Skytec 149-12LS starter
Date: Nov 15, 2006
Took Kelly's advice and contacted Skytec to inquire on availability of rebuilt starter at a discount over a new unit. I was informed that Skytec no longer sells rebuilt units due to a lack of sufficient cores. I guess it was a good deal while it lasted. Dan ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Martin & Chris" <av.8(at)bigpond.com>
Subject: Re:Brakes
Date: Nov 16, 2006
Charles, I guess the obvious thing to check is - are the brake calipers sliding freely on the two guide pins ? If not, make sure there is no crud on the pins, and give 'em a squirt of silicon spray, making sure none gets on the brake disc or pads. Also, make sure that the brake line is not restricting full movement of the caliper on the guides. If it is not either of these, then maybe the brake piston is sticking in the caliper and not retracting. In this case it could again be crud, or corrosion or possibly the piston is cocked in the bore. Easy enough to check. Cheers Martin in Oz ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 15, 2006
I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? Thanks Jose del Peso (#80981) Madrid (Spain) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "glen matejcek" <aerobubba(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: RE: RV-ListLycoming Data Plate
Date: Nov 15, 2006
From: Mike Robertson <mrobert569(at)hotmail.com> Subject: RE: RV-List: Lycoming Data Plate >Leave it on and carry on. > >Mike Robertson >Das Fed Boy, I wish you were in our area. Das local feds have said that the engines on our homebuilts no longer conform to the TC and as such the plate has to come off. Fortunately, they come off and go on easily. Same bunch that were insisting on STC'd belts recently. glen matejcek aerobubba(at)earthlink.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 15, 2006
I have the same config with battery in front. It's nose heavy solo, but I don't think I'd do it any different . - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com _____ From: jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net [mailto:jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:07 PM Subject: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? Thanks Jose del Peso (#80981) Madrid (Spain) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 15, 2006
I have an O320 in my -8A, but I do have the nose wheel so maybe it's close in weight... I also have an MT 3 blade prop that weights 38# with the spinner and screws... I mounted my odyssey 625 in the bottom part of the forward baggage compartment just behind the firewall... I weight about 215 and it's a bit heavy in the flair solo, but nothing I would ever complain about... It also allows me to load the crap out of it and never get out of CG... -Bill VonDane RV-8A - Colorado Springs www.rv8a.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Bowen Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 3:49 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 I have the same config with battery in front. It's nose heavy solo, but I don't think I'd do it any different . - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net [mailto:jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:07 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? Thanks Jose del Peso (#80981) Madrid (Spain) href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Date: Nov 15, 2006
The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles on the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the oil cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange to get about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine mount, but wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice from those with flying aircraft. Thanks, Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 16, 2006
That's the same set up as a guy who hangars next to me. He can't 3 point land without passenger or lots of baggage in the back. I'd say put the battery in the back. It will fly nicer solo without extra effort. I have an angle valve engine, hartzell prop, battery in the back and I can 3 point right without a passenger/luggage either. I like the way it trims out better with a passenger in the back so I would assume you'd overall like the way the plane solos with the battery back there too. Depends I guess on how much you are going to fly solo vs how often you are going to take up a VERY heavy passenger. -------------- Original message -------------- From: <jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net> I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? Thanks Jose del Peso (#80981) Madrid (Spain)
That's the same set up as a guy who hangars next to me. He can't 3 point land without passenger or lots of baggage in the back. I'd say put the battery in the back. It will fly nicer solo without extra effort. I have an angle valve engine, hartzell prop, battery in the back and I can 3 point right without a passenger/luggage either. I like the way it trims out better with a passenger in the back so I would assume you'd overall like the way the plane solos with the battery back there too. Depends I guess on how much you are going to fly solo vs how often you are going to take up a VERY heavy passenger.

I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted.

What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot?

Thanks

Jose del Peso (#80981)

Madrid (Spain)

________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2006
From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Kevin, sounds just like mine...no sign that the flange has ever touched the engine mount. John Huft 375 hours Kevin Horton wrote: > > The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles on > the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the oil > cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange to get > about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine mount, but > wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice from those with > flying aircraft. > > Thanks, > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Terry Watson" <terry(at)tcwatson.com>
Subject: Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Date: Nov 15, 2006
Kevin, This isn't an answer to your question, but more of a way of thinking about it.: The farther you are away from the motor mount, the more clearance you need. Since you are pretty close to the engine mount at that location, it would seem that 3/16" might be enough. Of course this is probably all very obvious to you but at one time in seemed like a brilliant insight to me. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 4:33 PM Subject: RV-List: Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount? The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles on the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the oil cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange to get about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine mount, but wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice from those with flying aircraft. Thanks, Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Denis Walsh <denis.walsh(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Date: Nov 15, 2006
Mine is on the rear baffle and I had to grind out a semi hole in the inboard flange to get about the same clearance as you have. It has not yet touched the engine mount, at least not in the first 9.5 years (1870 hours). It is; however an O-360A1A in an Rv-6. The worst shake and furthest deviation from rest position will probably be at the first start up. If you don't get a scrape then, you are most likely ok. Build fast. Fly Fast. But never get in a hurry. Denis Walsh On Nov 15, 2006, at 07:32 6317300011, Kevin Horton wrote: > > The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles > on the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the > oil cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange > to get about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine > mount, but wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice > from those with flying aircraft. > > Thanks, > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 15, 2006
Larry (and you other IO - 360 / Hartzell RV-8 guys), what was your empty weight? I'm wondering how close I came to meeting my weight target on my Mazda 20B three rotor powered RV-8. The goal was to be no heavier than the Lyc / Hartzell setup. FWIW, I'm putting the battery just aft of rear baggage area. I'm solo most of the time and speed / fuel economy (I fly a fixed GPH setting) is measurably better in my -4 when loaded closer to aft CG. Tracy Crook (getting ready to weigh RV-8) ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Bowen<mailto:Larry(at)bowenaero.com> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:49 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 I have the same config with battery in front. It's nose heavy solo, but I don't think I'd do it any different . - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com> ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net<mailto:jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net> [mailto:jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net] Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:07 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? Thanks Jose del Peso (#80981) Madrid (Spain) href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ator?RV-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 15, 2006
From: Rodney Tong <rjtong(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: hanger paine field
LongEz looking for a hanger to rent or share at Paine Field. Thanks Rodney --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $420,000 Mortgage for $1,399/mo - Calculate new house payment ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8
From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Nov 16, 2006
There's a good listing of various RV W&B figures at: http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ As for where to put the battery, I've done it both ways now, and my current RV-8 (O-360, Hartzell) has an Odyssey battery on the firewall. Tandems are always a compromise when it comes to CG, but at least the RV-8 offers a large front and rear baggage compartment to even things out. Bottom line is that the only time you will really NEED to keep the CG from being at the forward limit is if you have an inverted oil and fuel system, and plan to fly inverted. I've been told that there isn't enough down elevator for inverted flight at the foward CG limit, but I don't know this for a fact. I do know that my previous RV-8 had an aft mounted battery, and took a lot of down elevator to fly level inverted. Mounting an Odyssey battery aft might be about the best situation, but getting to the battery is a hassle, and you add weight by having to run a battery cable forward. You could take that same couple lbs, and add it to the tail to make up the difference, and have the battery on the firewall where it's easier to get to. That was my plan this time around, and so far, I'm happy with it. Cheers, Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=74977#74977 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr>
Subject: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 16, 2006
Jose, A French girl (who does speak Spanish) responds to a Spanish guy in English via a US list ' are we international or are we international? This issue was debated fairly recently in one of the lists as I asked the question. The consensus seems to have been that generally RV8s with CS are nose heavy when flying solo and difficult to three point. Based on all the discussion that my question generated, I went for the aft position ' I=92ll have a TMX-IO360, forward induction hence a snorkel up front with an MT prop and Skytech light weight starter. Time will tell whether this was the right choice. I do have a friend with an angle valve (200hp) and CS Hartzell ' he had to put 10lbs in the tail to balance his plane out. Mich=E8le RV8 ' Finishing Paris ' France Jose ' el 1, 2 y 3 de junio el Vans Club de France organiza su encuentro anual. Vienen muchos britanicos, franceses, otros, y algunos espa=F1oles. Estas cordialmente invitado ' el encuentro se hara en el centro de Francia en Nuits St. George ' cerca de Beaune en la zona vinicola de burgo=F1ia _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net Sent: jeudi 16 novembre 2006 03:07 Subject: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? Thanks Jose del Peso (#80981) Madrid (Spain) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 16, 2006
I had a buddy once who when flew with me couldn't trim his airplane enough when he slowed to my speed. He added a small door at the tail where he could add a temporary weight. Maybe that is also a good idea in this case. Add the weight when you need it. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of 13brv3 > Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 8:01 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8 > > > There's a good listing of various RV W&B figures at: > http://www.rvproject.com/wab/ > > As for where to put the battery, I've done it both ways now, and my > current RV-8 (O-360, Hartzell) has an Odyssey battery on the firewall. > Tandems are always a compromise when it comes to CG, but at least the RV-8 > offers a large front and rear baggage compartment to even things out. > > Bottom line is that the only time you will really NEED to keep the CG from > being at the forward limit is if you have an inverted oil and fuel system, > and plan to fly inverted. I've been told that there isn't enough down > elevator for inverted flight at the foward CG limit, but I don't know this > for a fact. I do know that my previous RV-8 had an aft mounted battery, > and took a lot of down elevator to fly level inverted. > > Mounting an Odyssey battery aft might be about the best situation, but > getting to the battery is a hassle, and you add weight by having to run a > battery cable forward. You could take that same couple lbs, and add it to > the tail to make up the difference, and have the battery on the firewall > where it's easier to get to. That was my plan this time around, and so > far, I'm happy with it. > > Cheers, > Rusty > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=74977#74977 > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 16, 2006
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV8
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
1130 after paint. See my site for a link to my W&B. -- Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com Tracy Crook wrote: > Larry (and you other IO - 360 / Hartzell RV-8 guys), what was your empty > weight? > > I'm wondering how close I came to meeting my weight target on my Mazda 20B > three rotor powered RV-8. The goal was to be no heavier than the Lyc / > Hartzell setup. > > FWIW, I'm putting the battery just aft of rear baggage area. I'm solo > most of the time and speed / fuel economy (I fly a fixed GPH setting) is > measurably better in my -4 when loaded closer to aft CG. > > Tracy Crook (getting ready to weigh RV-8) > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Larry Bowen<mailto:Larry(at)bowenaero.com> > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 5:49 PM > Subject: RE: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 > > > I have the same config with battery in front. It's nose heavy solo, but > I don't think I'd do it any different . > - > Larry Bowen > Larry(at)BowenAero.com > http://BowenAero.com> > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > From: jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net<mailto:jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net> > [mailto:jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net] > Sent: Wednesday, November 15, 2006 9:07 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 > > > I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to > know if the battery will be aft or forward mounted. > > What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A > engine,Hartzell propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? > > Thanks > > Jose del Peso (#80981) > > Madrid (Spain) > > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > > www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> > www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> > www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> > http://www.matronics.com/contribution> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Paul Rice" <rice737(at)msn.com>
Subject: Position of the battery in the RV8
Date: Nov 16, 2006
I just moved my battery from front to back in my 8 after speaking with a friend who has the same engine and prop I plan to fly, TMX IO360 and a Hartzell blended airfoil. He has been flying around with a case of oil in the back so the landings are a bit easier. Since I usually will be solo, I think that is the best way to go. I shouldn't have to get to the battery that often, so access is not a priority. I may add a ground power socket aft of the baggage compartment. Paul Rice rv8 finish kit >From: <jdelpeso(at)bellsouth.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: >Subject: RV-List: Position of the battery in the RV8 >Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2006 18:07:03 -0800 > > >I'm ready to order the Van's wire harness kit for a RV-8. I need to know if >the battery will be aft or forward mounted. > >What is the experience of other builders with a O-360-A1A engine,Hartzell >propeller and 200 lbs. pilot? > >Thanks > >Jose del Peso (#80981) > >Madrid (Spain) > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: Powder coat ?s
On 11/16 11:11, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com wrote: > For any of y'all that have powder-coated your panels, what is the prudent > allowance around openings such as instrument holes to allow for thickness > of the powder coat? I imagine this may vary a bit from one coater or > coating to the next, but what is the best bet? Any recommended coaters > out there? Mine's powder coated and in reality it doesn't really make a difference. Make the holes the right size for the instrument. If it's a tight fit because of the coating then just file off the coating. You won't see it on most installations because of the instrument bezel covering the hole gaps. One thing to be aware of, if you powder coat your panel and you intend to use a non-smooth coating for anti-glare purposes like I did, it may be more difficult to apply and not 'see' the decals to mark instruments. Lots of options with powder coating though and it's a very durable coating which I'm very happy with. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying! http://www.evorocket.com - Building ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Powder coat ?s
In a message dated 11/16/2006 8:13:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, Fiveonepw(at)aol.com writes: For any of y'all that have powder-coated your panels, what is the prudent allowance around openings such as instrument holes to allow for thickness of the powder coat? I would recommend making the hole diameters about 1mm (.040") oversize but Walter was correct that you can scrape the inside of the holes with a sharp Xacto blade to get rid of the meniscus. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 816hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: List Value...
If you look forward to checking your List email everyday (and a lot of you have written to say that you do!), then you're probably getting at least 0 or 0 worth of Entertainment from the Lists each year. You'd pay twice that for a subscription to some lame magazine or even a dinner out. Isn't the List worth at least that much to you? Wouldn't it be great if you could pay that same amount and get a well-managed media source free of advertising, SPAM, and viruses? Come to think of it, you do... Won't you please take a minute to make your Contribution today and support YOUR Lists? Contribution Page: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Again, I want to say THANK YOU to everyone that has made a Contribution thus far during this year's List Fund Raiser!! These Lists are made possible exclusively through YOUR generosity!! Thank you for your support! Matt Dralle Email List Admin. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Richmond KY (Madison I39) Fly In
Date: Nov 17, 2006
When is the fly in? Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr>
Subject: Re: rivets
Date: Oct 17, 2006
I am responding a little late as I am reading past mails but since no one has mentioned it I thought I'd bring more info. Rivets have a mark on them which identifies the material they are made of. In our case the dimple indicates that the alloy is 2117 which is the only alloy specially made for rivets I know of which does not require heating the rivet (annealing) prior to using it. Other rivets have a cross, two crosses, four dimples, a star, etc. each one representing a particular kind of alloy/heat treatment combination. If I were you I'd stay away from unidentified rivets and from all rivets which require annealing. Annealing is OK but it is a hassle. The technique is to heat them with a torch inside a metal basket on which you scrapped some basic soap - not the Dove or Zest kind. When the soap turns brown then the temperature is OK. You then have an hour or two to use them before they harden up again. Michele RV8 - Finishing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of kitfoxmike Sent: jeudi 31 aot 2006 16:23 Subject: RV-List: Re: rivets Gee, I thought that dot in the center was for drilling them back out. -------- kitfoxmike kitfox4 1200 912ul speedster http://www.frappr.com/kitfoxmike rv7 wingkit reserved 287RV Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=58727#58727 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ron Schreck" <ronschreck(at)alltel.net>
Subject: Re: Position of the battery in the RV-8
Date: Nov 17, 2006
I originally planned on using a Hartzel CS prop on my RV-8 but opted for the much lighter Whirlwind 200RV after I had installed the dual Odyssey batteries (dual elect ignition) in the tail. The CG would have been perfect with the heavier Hartzell, but rather than tear out the batteries and relocate to the firewall, I elected to add some lead to the engine mount. Another option I have is to remove one of the batteries and replace with a much smaller battery for EFIS and ignition redundancy. Turns out I only use one Odyssey for starting the engine. I do have to be careful about overloading the rear baggage compartment but I really like the responsiveness of the airplane when flying solo. Three-point landings are easy and it spins and snaps great. As long as you stay within Van's CG limits you will be safe. On the plus side of mounting the battery forward is that you can correct a nose-heavy situation by adding a small weight in the tail. Conversely, a tail heavy airplane requires a much heavier weight in the nose to correct the situation. Ron Schreck RV-8 "Miss Izzy" Gold Hill Airpark, NC ________________________________________________________________________________
From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Mich=E8le_Delsol?= <michele.delsol(at)microsigma.fr>
Subject: Forward Baggage Compartment Temperatures
Date: Oct 17, 2006
Excellent info although the specs on the tape limit it to 68F so it should not do for the firewall. However it could be a good product for the forward side skins and the belly skins behind the wing longerons. Michele RV8 - Finishing -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of dick martin Sent: mercredi 6 septembre 2006 03:27 Subject: Re: RV-List: Forward Baggage Compartment Temperatures Importance: High Dave, Suggest you consider insulating the firewall with 3M Vibration Dampinng Tape or equivalent. This will provide a fire barrier and also reduce temps to normal cabin temps. This is a standard insulation for aircraft and is readily available. Dick Martin RV8 N233M the fast one ----- Original Message ----- From: "DAVID REEL" <dreel(at)cox.net> Sent: Monday, September 04, 2006 8:50 AM Subject: RV-List: Forward Baggage Compartment Temperatures > > Yesterday I measured a 110 degree Fahrenheit temperature close to the > firewall in the forward baggage compartment of my RV8A. The method was to > tape the wire lead of the outdoor sensor of an indoor/outdoor digital > thermometer to the firewall so that the sensor was held close but not > actually in contact with the firewall. Upon return from a half hour > flight, > I just opened the baggage compartment door and read the temperature about > 5 > minutes after landing. I also know that plastic bubble wrap which was in > contact with the firewall did not melt and that although you can touch the > firewall, it feels pretty hot. Outside air temp was 75 degrees F. > > Does anyone else have any information on the temperatures likely to be > experienced by baggage stowed in this area? > > Dave Reel - RV8A > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: John Huft <rv8(at)lazy8.net>
Subject: Re: Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Kevin and all I have added some pictures at the bottom of my firewall forward page 2 http://www.lazy8.net/fwf2.html Of the oil cooler installation. John Huft www.lazy8.net/rv8.html Kevin Horton wrote: > > The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles on > the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the oil > cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange to get > about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine mount, but > wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice from those with > flying aircraft. > > Thanks, > > Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > Ottawa, Canada > http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Instrument mounting hole circle
In a message dated 11/17/2006 9:49:22 AM Central Standard Time, Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: It's realy best if you have the instruments on hand to do the fit up. >>> Hi Bruce- thanks for the reply. Understood and agree- this is for Trutrak Digiflight. Trutrak was asked the question and replied "standard instrument cutout dimensions". Instruments on order, not in hand. Beginning to think this simple, common dimension must either be secret information (I'll have to kill you) or I'm the only one not in the Brotherhood... Mark, looking for number, leaning towards 2-5/8" but not confirmed and do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Greg Young" <gyoung@cs-sol.com>
Subject: Instrument mounting hole circle
Date: Nov 17, 2006
It's not a secret... really. Somewhere in the Aircraft Spruce catalog there is a diagram of the standard cutouts with dimensions. It might be accessible thru the web as well although I haven't tried. Greg Young _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fiveonepw(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 11:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Instrument mounting hole circle In a message dated 11/17/2006 9:49:22 AM Central Standard Time, Bruce(at)glasair.org writes: It's realy best if you have the instruments on hand to do the fit up. >>> Hi Bruce- thanks for the reply. Understood and agree- this is for Trutrak Digiflight. Trutrak was asked the question and replied "standard instrument cutout dimensions". Instruments on order, not in hand. Beginning to think this simple, common dimension must either be secret information (I'll have to kill you) or I'm the only one not in the Brotherhood... Mark, looking for number, leaning towards 2-5/8" but not confirmed and do not archive ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Spraylat removal problems
Builders, I used Spraylat as a protective coating for my Lancair plexiglas canopy. It was advertised as a plexiglas protectant during aircraft construction so I bought some. It came in a quart-size bottle with no labels, no directions, no warnings, no Material Safety Data Sheets, nothing. I read on all the lists just to brush 2 coats on so I taped off the edges of my canopy and brushed on the Spraylat. A week or so later, I sprayed an epoxy-based primer over the tape and some primer got onto the Spraylat which I thought would protect the plexiglas. It didn't. Somehow the primer reacted with the Spraylat and it made the Spraylat impossible to remove. I thought for sure it would protect my canopy during the construction process as advertised and painting is a normal part of the construction process. I contacted Spraylat who said to soak a cloth in warm soapy water and let it sit on the Spraylat. No success. I researched the internet and found that Wicks Aircraft online catalog says, "NOT TO BE USED AS A PAINT MASK". I didn't know that before I bought it from Aircraft Spruce. So, technically, it protects the canopy during the construction process EXCEPT for paint. I have tried everything to remove it. 3M adhesive remover, lamp oil, kerosene, and the only thing that worked was NOVUS 3. Still, there was 10% of the Spraylat which was permanent after a solid week of work. I ended up using a razorblade and then a dremel tool with a felt pad to remove the scratches from the razorblade. The dremel tool heated up the plexiglas and made small internal cracks and completely distorted the canopy. Now, my canopy needs to be replaced - there is no way around it. I was so close to first flight. Now it will take another year to rebuild it. So, here is what I learned: NEVER USE SPRAYLAT around ANY type of paint. I am wondering if anyone else has had this type or any similar type of experience with Spraylat. Wicks aircraft told me they had heard of that happening to someone else in the past which is why they added the statement. Also, is anyone else getting Spraylat in plain bottles with no warnings, no labels, no instructions, and no Material Safety Data Sheets? I'd really like to know. I am told that even if I received all of that, none of it includes a warning that Spraylat is not to be used as a paintmask. This happened on a Lancair but I am posting this to all the aircraft sites so that no one will go through what I've gone through and learned the hard way. I look forward to hearing your experiences and advice. Please respond to me at: mattreeves(at)yahoo.com I sincerely appreciate anyone else's input and advice. --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: [RV-8] Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Date: Nov 17, 2006
The oil cooler is mounted on the baffle, so it moves with the engine. I've reworked it a bit to get somewhere between 1/4" and 9/32". There is no way to get much more than that without a complete redesign of the mounting arrangement. My mount is more complex than most, as it incorporates a sliding door to control the incoming air flow. I don't want to redo the mount if I don't need to. I've had several responses from people who had 3/16" to 1/4" clearance with no reported problems, so I'm going to try out what I've got. The cooler is aluminum, and the mount is steel, so I don't think any contact will hurt the mount, other than damage the paint. Obviously repeated contact wouldn't be good for the cooler, so I'll pay close attention to this area until I have some time on the aircraft. Thank you very much to everyone who responded. Kevin On 17 Nov 2006, at 17:14, David Brand wrote: > Kevin, > Is your cooler mounted on your baffle so that it moves with the > engine, > or is it a stationary mount as in attached to your engine mount? If > the > former, depending how far out from the center line of the engine it > is, > I`d give it at least half an inch, more if you can get it. If > stationary, > I think the existing 3/16 should be OK. Dave Brand N254LF > > --- Kevin Horton wrote: > >> The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles on >> the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the oil >> cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange to get >> about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine mount, but >> wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice from those with >> flying aircraft. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) >> Ottawa, Canada >> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 >> >> > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 17, 2006
Subject: Re: Instrument mounting hole circle
Hi Bob- I'm doing the AutoCAD panel layout and have contacted a local waterjet cutter in Nashville about pokin' the holes. Another builder in the area used him with good results. Jet@south-tech.us (615) 847-8226 Might go to Steve Davis in Memphis who did my previous panel with excellent results. And the BBQ there is to die for... http://members.aol.com/panelcut/ Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 17, 2006
From: Leland <federigo(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Light twin for sale
I am posting this for Ken Coe who is a friend and an RV3 owner. Ken is selling his twin-engined 1967 Wing Derringer for $125K. This plane is gorgeous and of museum quality. Ken is the second owner having bought it from George Wings widow. Only 11 were build and some 6-7 are left. It seats two side-by-side, has IO320B engines, an empty weight of 2100 pounds with an 850 pound useful load, and a 227 mph cruise. Kens cell number is 443-7460 with a 925 area code, in Livermore, California Leland ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Catto Propellers
Date: Nov 18, 2006
Does anyone know anything about the state of the business for Catto Propellers? Six months ago I ordered a prop for my RV7 project, and gave them a $1,000 deposit. Now that I'm ready for my prop I can't seem to contact them. I've sent 3 emails with no response, and when I try to telephone the business, all I get is a "fax" tone. I've been burned in the past by suppliers to our homebuilt community, and pray that this isn't the case with Catto. If anyone has had any recent communication with them, or knows anything about the business, please advise. Garry Stout RV7A Odessa Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Paul Folbrecht <paul.folbrecht(at)veribox.net>
Subject: Re: Catto Propellers
Date: Nov 18, 2006
I put my deposit down well over a year ago and have been asked to accept many delays. I have, because I haven't needed the prop yet. Craig is sometimes (no, virtually always) slow to respond to email, but he's been around a long time in this biz and I doubt he's going anywhere. Give it a bit of time. Paul 9A QB #1176 No work for the last month again due to work On Nov 18, 2006, at 9:48 AM, Garry wrote: > Does anyone know anything about the state of the business for Catto > Propellers? Six months ago I ordered a prop for my RV7 project, > and gave them a $1,000 deposit. Now that I'm ready for my prop I > can't seem to contact them. I've sent 3 emails with no response, > and when I try to telephone the business, all I get is a "fax" > tone. I've been burned in the past by suppliers to our homebuilt > community, and pray that this isn't the case with Catto. If anyone > has had any recent communication with them, or knows anything about > the business, please advise. > > Garry Stout > RV7A Odessa Florida > > > ============================================================ _- > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jeff Orear" <jorear(at)new.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Catto Propellers
Date: Nov 18, 2006
Garry: Craig is notorious lately for being behind in his deliveries of props. Waits of up to a year are not uncommon. Unfortunately, the squeaky wheel gets the grease theory holds very true when dealing with Craig. The more you stress to him the need for delivery of your prop, the sooner you get it, or so it seems. Not what I would call proper business practice, but it is what it is. I would continue to try to call him. That is generally the best way to get ahold of him. Hang in there. His saving grace is that he does make an excellent prop and you will be very happy with it. Regards, Jeff Orear RV6A N782P Peshtigo, WI ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: RV-List: Catto Propellers Does anyone know anything about the state of the business for Catto Propellers? Six months ago I ordered a prop for my RV7 project, and gave them a $1,000 deposit. Now that I'm ready for my prop I can't seem to contact them. I've sent 3 emails with no response, and when I try to telephone the business, all I get is a "fax" tone. I've been burned in the past by suppliers to our homebuilt community, and pray that this isn't the case with Catto. If anyone has had any recent communication with them, or knows anything about the business, please advise. Garry Stout RV7A Odessa Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "sportypilot" <sportypilot(at)stx.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Catto Propellers
Date: Nov 18, 2006
You have nothing to worry about other than it takes time to keep up with demand , Craig is not going anywhere his props are awesome though and when you get in contact with him just tell him you need it asfp , he is a very great guy but the quality of his work keeps him backed up , everyone keep in mind if he could turn them out faster with same quality (and get more of our money) don't you think he would love doing that ? also he could have let the quality slip to turn out more per month or year and then we would be bitching about the quality going down can't have it both ways.. keep calling him and he will put a very high quality propeller in your hands as soon as he is able and you will love it.. THEY ARE WORKS OF ART! Danny.. ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 9:48 AM Subject: RV-List: Catto Propellers Does anyone know anything about the state of the business for Catto Propellers? Six months ago I ordered a prop for my RV7 project, and gave them a $1,000 deposit. Now that I'm ready for my prop I can't seem to contact them. I've sent 3 emails with no response, and when I try to telephone the business, all I get is a "fax" tone. I've been burned in the past by suppliers to our homebuilt community, and pray that this isn't the case with Catto. If anyone has had any recent communication with them, or knows anything about the business, please advise. Garry Stout RV7A Odessa Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Mersek" <1rv6flyer(at)internet49.com>
Subject: Re: Catto Propellers
Date: Nov 18, 2006
Hi Garry, Craig Catto is alive and well. I visited him twice this past week; he was re-working my prop for me. Simply put, he is a one man operation and has a large back order of props. Ron Lee's email is right on, just keep calling and you will get a hold of him; let him know you are ready for your prop now and I'm sure he will fit you in. (209) 754-3553 I also don't think you need to worry about getting burned for your deposit; just be persistent with your phone calls. I don't blame him for being slow to respond to emails as they can be so time consuming especially when you live remotely and only have dial up service. In my opinion; for those who are contemplating purchase of a Catto prop you just need to be aware there is a long wait and place your order accordingly. I am very pleased with my Catto prop. I am just shy of 500 hours on my prop/engine and I was concerned of some nicks in the leading edge and I recently noticed a bit more vibration. I guess I was overly concerned about the nicks; he determined them to be minor for the hours on the prop but he did find the static balance to be off some. --Larry Mersek N336RV Mountain Ranch, CA. (KCPU) ----- Original Message ----- From: Chris and Kellie Hand To: Larry Mersek Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:16 AM Subject: Fw: RV-List: Catto Propellers Hi Larry - can you help this guy gte in touch with Catto? Showing my 140 again today, we'll see how that goes. Talk to you later, Chris ----- Original Message ----- From: Garry To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 7:48 AM Subject: RV-List: Catto Propellers Does anyone know anything about the state of the business for Catto Propellers? Six months ago I ordered a prop for my RV7 project, and gave them a $1,000 deposit. Now that I'm ready for my prop I can't seem to contact them. I've sent 3 emails with no response, and when I try to telephone the business, all I get is a "fax" tone. I've been burned in the past by suppliers to our homebuilt community, and pray that this isn't the case with Catto. If anyone has had any recent communication with them, or knows anything about the business, please advise. Garry Stout RV7A Odessa Florida ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Catto Propellers
From: "gbrasch" <gbrasch(at)earthlink.net>
Date: Nov 18, 2006
I have spoken to him on the phone 2 times in the past 2 weeks, he seems to answer more in the middle of the work day. I also placed an order with him, but told him I was not in any rush. He did not ask me for a deposit. Hope this helps. -------- Glenn Brasch RV-9A Finishing #90623 Tucson, Arizona Van's Aircraft Belt Buckles http://home.earthlink.net/~gbrasch/ Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=75463#75463 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Instrument mounting hole circle
Date: Nov 18, 2006
Mark, my friend, as a Lindy Award winner and a Best Metal at Sun-N-Fun, you know the place to find your answers! Seek out Bob Nuckolls' and you will find on his web site a place from which to download the dimensions you seek either in a AutoCAD format or PDF! The palace to go is http://www.aeroelectric.com/Reference_Docs/Panel_Layout! Provided the std. dimensions of the usual panel instruments. I used these and Jet@south-tech.us and it has worked out beautifully. If you want to close up the size of the mounting screw holes to just 0.040" go ahead, as they can be opened up if required to your screw hole size is needed. 0.040" is the smallest hole that JetSouth can cut. This all worked great for me! Now, how do you say, Happy Thanksgiving!!! Marty in Brentwood TN mounting hole circle Hi Bob- I'm doing the AutoCAD panel layout and have contacted a local waterjet cutter in Nashville about pokin' the holes. Another builder in the area used him with good results. Jet@south-tech.us (615) 847-8226 Might go to Steve Davis in Memphis who did my previous panel with excellent results. And the BBQ there is to die for... http://members.aol.com/panelcut/ Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Wheeler North <wnorth(at)sdccd.edu>
Subject: Spraylat
Date: Nov 18, 2006
Best way I could figure to use it was to lay it on thick, two coats, dry, then mask it all with blue masking tape. This allowed for overspray and allowed for an accidental dropped the tool on the canopy which I don't think the Spraylat would prevent a scratch as it just isn't thick enough. But it does allow for the masking tape to come off easily after time. I did have one section that I let go about a year and a half and it was a long pain pulling little stripes off one at a time. So remove all and repeat after nine months to one year if not done. Model builders use a similar latex product made by Tamiya that does work for masking acrylic paints. At least it did back when I used to make models. But it comes in one ounce quantities. W ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Kraut" <brian.kraut(at)engalt.com>
Subject: RE: KR> Premium Aircraft Parts
Date: Nov 19, 2006
I was going to post something about them a few months ago but I changed my mind thinking maybe it was just one bad deal. Now I am sorry I didn't. I might have saved you some trouble. I was doing a top overhaul on an O-290D on my Pacer. I had several broken rings and all the pistons were shot, but the cylinders could be stretched another 500 hours until I was ready to upgrade to an O-320. (The 290D has awefull parts availibility and prices compared to the 320) I had to decide between $4,000 for exchanged cylinders with new pistons or about $1,200 for just honing the cylinders and putting in new pistons and rings. Premium was the only company that said they had the pistons and rings and they had a good price. The cylinder overhaul shops would not sell pistons without the cylinders because the sets they had left were all they could get. I ordered the pistons and rings from Premium and sent the cylinders off to Don George to be inspected, honed, and repainted. The day the cylinders were being shipped back I called Premium to get a tracking number and was told "We are still looking for them" What kind of BS is this? I spent a bunch of money and wasted a week to have my old cylinders done and the only company that said they had them in stock now couldn't come up with them. To make a long story a little shorter, I wound up buying overhauled cylinders and pistons from Gibson (great company, I would highly recommend them) and the fresh painted and honed cylinders I paid to ship all over the place for nothing were returned as my cores. I have attached part of my correspondence with them at the bottom of this email. I am also copying this to the Mustang and RV lists to let everyone else know to beware of Premium. I also need to go back and look at my credit card statements and make sure they have not charged me. Brian Kraut Engineering Alternatives, Inc. www.engalt.com -----Original Message----- From: krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com(at)mylist.net [mailto:krnet-bounces+brian.kraut=engalt.com(at)mylist.net]On Behalf Of Don Chisholm Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 11:26 AM Subject: KR> Premium Aircraft Parts just a heads up to the group that are putting together production engines for their machines. Avoid this company like the plague, I got stung on a complete set of rings for an 0 235 Lycoming engine I put together and contacted Barnstormers about them where I seen their adds and was informed that they dropped them because of many complaints and will be contacting my credit card company also. So beware _______________________________________ Search the KRnet Archives at http://www.maddyhome.com/krsrch/index.jsp to UNsubscribe from KRnet, send a message to KRnet-leave(at)mylist.net please see other KRnet info at http://www.krnet.org/info.html ----Original Message----- From: Chris Baker [mailto:cbaker(at)premiumaircraftparts.com] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 12:43 PM Subject: RE: Estimate from Premium Aircraft Parts, LLC We will cancel your order. I am sure you will have no problem finding these elsewhere as you have indicated. -----Original Message----- From: brian brian [mailto:brian(at)engalt.com] Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: RE: Estimate from Premium Aircraft Parts, LLC I was told that you had them. I need to put them on this weekend. I would have found them somewhere else if I knew that you didn't have them. Let me know if you can get them to me tomorrow or not. ---------- Original Message ---------------------------------- From: "Chris Baker" <cbaker(at)premiumaircraftparts.com> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2006 11:18:45 -0500 >I don't think Tim has found any pistons yet. > >-----Original Message----- >From: brian brian [mailto:brian(at)engalt.com] >Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 11:10 AM >To: Chris Baker >Subject: RE: Estimate from Premium Aircraft Parts, LLC > > >I ordered pistons and rings on Monday. They should have been shipped. >Can you send me the tracking number. Thanks. > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McMahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor..
Date: Nov 19, 2006
----- Original Message ----- From: John McMahon Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:41 PM Subject: Woodward Prop govenor.. Woodward oil leak Help.. Has any one that has Vans Woodward governor,had oil leaks around the 1/4 mounting studs to the unit..Even after replacing with new gasket,there is oil coming out at the studs at 2000 rpm or more!!I know that there is a lot of pressure this unit puts out, but I really do not want to send it out to be checked if anyone has had this same problem..It has only about 130 hrs on it.. Anyone have any ideas??? Thanks John McMahon (RV6 C/S 180) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John McMahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor..
Date: Nov 19, 2006
----- Original Message ----- From: John McMahon Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 9:32 AM Subject: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor.. ----- Original Message ----- From: John McMahon Sent: Saturday, November 18, 2006 8:41 PM Subject: Woodward Prop govenor.. Woodward oil leak Help.. Has any one that has Vans Woodward governor,had oil leaks around the 1/4 mounting studs to the unit..Even after replacing with new gasket,there is oil coming out at the studs at 2000 rpm or more!!I know that there is a lot of pressure this unit puts out, but I really do not want to send it out to be checked if anyone has had this same problem..It has only about 130 hrs on it.. Anyone have any ideas??? Thanks John McMahon (RV6 C/S 180) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: BlueMountain Auto Pilot Q's
Date: Nov 19, 2006
From: flyadive(at)aol.com
Hello Flight: I am finishing up installing the Blue Mountain Auto Pilot in an RV-6A. The Altitude hold servo is installed as well as the interface box. Now comes the difficult part, installing the roll servo. I say difficult because the plane is competed and flying and the installation is an after thought ... Many years after. Installing the servo in the wing is not an option. After doing some fit checking I have come up with an installation point on the pilot side half under the seat and half into the area by the stick and under the left leg. I am thinking about running the push rod from the servo to the right and connecting the rod-end-bearing to the Hex Connecting Rod that goes between the pilot & co-pilot sticks. The method of connection would be to drill and tap the Hex Rod for a 1/4 - 28 thread and use LocTite to secure it. Each end of the push rod will have the rod-end-bearings to help in converting the rotational arc movement of the servo to a liner movement for the aileron push rods. >From all I can see ... YES ... It will also handle the forward and back rock of the stick. So, what is my question(s)? 1 - Is the Hex Rod HOLLOW? 2 - From what I can ROUGHLY measure it is 9/16" from flat to flat. And since all the stress in longitudinal do you feel that drilling and tapping a 1/4 - 28 thread in the Hex Rod is acceptable? 3 - If your answer to Q2 is NO then what method of connection do you recommend? Thanks Flight, your help is greatly appreciated. Barry "Chop'd Liver" ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: BlueMountain Auto Pilot Q's
Date: Nov 19, 2006
On 19 Nov 2006, at 13:34, flyadive(at)aol.com wrote: > I am finishing up installing the Blue Mountain Auto Pilot in an > RV-6A. The Altitude hold servo is installed as well as the > interface box. Now comes the difficult part, installing the roll > servo. I say difficult because the plane is competed and flying > and the installation is an after thought ... Many years after. > Installing the servo in the wing is not an option. After doing > some fit checking I have come up with an installation point on the > pilot side half under the seat and half into the area by the stick > and under the left leg. > I am thinking about running the push rod from the servo to the > right and connecting the rod-end-bearing to the Hex Connecting Rod > that goes between the pilot & co-pilot sticks. > The method of connection would be to drill and tap the Hex Rod for > a 1/4 - 28 thread and use LocTite to secure it. > Each end of the push rod will have the rod-end-bearings to help in > converting the rotational arc movement of the servo to a liner > movement for the aileron push rods. > From all I can see ... YES ... It will also handle the forward and > back rock of the stick. > So, what is my question(s)? > 1 - Is the Hex Rod HOLLOW? > 2 - From what I can ROUGHLY measure it is 9/16" from flat to flat. > And since all the stress in longitudinal do you feel that drilling > and tapping a 1/4 - 28 thread in the Hex Rod is acceptable? > 3 - If your answer to Q2 is NO then what method of connection do > you recommend? > If the screw that connects the servo's rod end to the flight controls is too small, it may fail. This disables the autopilot, but leaves you with normal flight controls. If it is too big the hex rod may fail, and this may lead to a flight control jam, if the loose end of hex rod catches on something. Given the consequences of either failure, I'd much rather bias the probable failures towards a failure of the connection to the servo's control rod, rather than towards a failure of the hex rod that connects the sticks. I suggest you use a smaller rod end, such that you would only need to drill and tap a 3/16" hole in the hex rod, or smaller. As a point of reference, the Navaid devices wing leveler servo uses tiny rod ends that go over #5 screws (about 1/8" diameter) at the servo control arm and at the flight controls, and I have never heard of a problem. So you could get by with a much smaller connection both than 1/4", if you can find a suitable combination of hardware. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor..
Date: Nov 19, 2006
John, Is it leaking at the spacer plate? Do you have the spacer plate in place? Dale Ensing do not achieve Woodward oil leak Help.. Has any one that has Vans Woodward governor,had oil leaks around the 1/4 mounting studs to the unit..Even after replacing with new gasket,there is oil coming out at the studs at 2000 rpm or more!!I know that there is a lot of pressure this unit puts out, but I really do not want to send it out to be checked if anyone has had this same problem..It has only about 130 hrs on it.. Anyone have any ideas??? Thanks John McMahon (RV6 C/S 180) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Mcmahon" <rv6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor..
Date: Nov 19, 2006
Dale Well it is leaking at the 10 o'clock stud and moving back and pooling in a small depression just past the nut..The spacer plate did leak a little,but removed and installed with new gasket..I have been chasing this leak since I installed the new eng and governor,and got mad and said this is going to stop!!It will only show up at the 2000 and operate the CS some and out it comes...I sure hate to have to send it off for $320.00 to check it out..I am going to try to call Woodward tomorrow.. Thanks John ----- Original Message ----- From: Dale Ensing To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 1:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor.. John, Is it leaking at the spacer plate? Do you have the spacer plate in place? Dale Ensing do not achieve Woodward oil leak Help.. Has any one that has Vans Woodward governor,had oil leaks around the 1/4 mounting studs to the unit..Even after replacing with new gasket,there is oil coming out at the studs at 2000 rpm or more!!I know that there is a lot of pressure this unit puts out, but I really do not want to send it out to be checked if anyone has had this same problem..It has only about 130 hrs on it.. Anyone have any ideas??? Thanks John McMahon (RV6 C/S 180) href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/c href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 19, 2006
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor..
IIRC there is supposed to be a gasket on BOTH sides of the spacer. John Mcmahon wrote: > *Dale* > *Well it is leaking at the 10 o'clock stud and moving back and pooling* > *in a small depression just past the nut..The spacer plate did leak a* > *little,but removed and installed with new gasket..I have been chasing* > *this leak since I installed the new eng and governor,and got mad and > said this is going to stop!!It will only show up at the 2000 and > operate the CS some and out it comes...I sure hate to have to send it > off for $320.00 to check it out..I am going to try to call Woodward > tomorrow..* > * Thanks* > * John* > > ----- Original Message ----- > *From:* Dale Ensing > *To:* rv-list(at)matronics.com > *Sent:* Sunday, November 19, 2006 1:37 PM > *Subject:* RV-List: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor.. > > John, > Is it leaking at the spacer plate? Do you have the spacer plate in > place? > Dale Ensing > do not achieve > > > *Woodward oil leak Help..* > *Has any one that has Vans Woodward governor,had oil leaks* > *around the 1/4 mounting studs to the unit..Even after replacing* > *with new gasket,there is oil coming out at the studs at 2000 rpm* > *or more!!I know that there is a lot of pressure this unit > puts out,* > *but I really do not want to send it out to be checked if > anyone has* > *had this same problem..It has only about 130 hrs on it..* > * Anyone have any ideas???* > * Thanks* > * John McMahon (RV6 C/S 180)* > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > * > > * > > href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com > href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com > href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com > href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com > href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > > * > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Larry Bowen" <Larry(at)bowenaero.com>
Subject: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor..
Date: Nov 19, 2006
I have a rebuilt Woodward gov that works fine. Leaked at one time, but a new gasket fixed it. You've witnessed it squirt out at that location? It can't be coming from something up higher on the accessory case and leaking down? Just a thought....sometimes it's hard to tell...... - Larry Bowen Larry(at)BowenAero.com http://BowenAero.com _____ From: Dale Ensing [mailto:densing(at)carolina.rr.com] Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 2:37 PM Subject: RV-List: Fw: Woodward Prop govenor.. John, Is it leaking at the spacer plate? Do you have the spacer plate in place? Dale Ensing do not achieve Woodward oil leak Help.. Has any one that has Vans Woodward governor,had oil leaks around the 1/4 mounting studs to the unit..Even after replacing with new gasket,there is oil coming out at the studs at 2000 rpm or more!!I know that there is a lot of pressure this unit puts out, but I really do not want to send it out to be checked if anyone has had this same problem..It has only about 130 hrs on it.. Anyone have any ideas??? Thanks John McMahon (RV6 C/S 180) href="http://www.aeroelectric.com">www.aeroelectric.com href="http://www.buildersbooks.com">www.buildersbooks.com href="http://www.kitlog.com">www.kitlog.com href="http://www.homebuilthelp.com">www.homebuilthelp.com href="http://www.matronics.com/contribution">http://www.matronics.com/chref "http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Naviga tor?RV-List ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: [RV-8] Clearance between oil cooler and engine mount?
Date: Nov 20, 2006
Kevin, I have a scant 1/4 in. clearance between the body of my cooler and the engine mount after grinding away most of the cooler flange in a semi circle near the engine mount. As a precaution I installed a short length of breather hose over the mount at the potential contact point which reduced the clearance to about 1/8 in. So far I have not seen any evidence of contact. Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 289 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com> > > The oil cooler is mounted on the baffle, so it moves with the > engine. I've reworked it a bit to get somewhere between 1/4" and > 9/32". There is no way to get much more than that without a complete > redesign of the mounting arrangement. My mount is more complex than > most, as it incorporates a sliding door to control the incoming air > flow. I don't want to redo the mount if I don't need to. > > I've had several responses from people who had 3/16" to 1/4" > clearance with no reported problems, so I'm going to try out what > I've got. The cooler is aluminum, and the mount is steel, so I don't > think any contact will hurt the mount, other than damage the paint. > Obviously repeated contact wouldn't be good for the cooler, so I'll > pay close attention to this area until I have some time on the aircraft. > > Thank you very much to everyone who responded. > > Kevin > > > On 17 Nov 2006, at 17:14, David Brand wrote: > > > Kevin, > > Is your cooler mounted on your baffle so that it moves with the > > engine, > > or is it a stationary mount as in attached to your engine mount? If > > the > > former, depending how far out from the center line of the engine it > > is, > > I`d give it at least half an inch, more if you can get it. If > > stationary, > > I think the existing 3/16 should be OK. Dave Brand N254LF > > > > --- Kevin Horton wrote: > > > >> The oil cooler on my IO-360-A1B6 is hung a bit aft of the baffles on > >> the left side, and I don't have a lot of clearance between the oil > >> cooler flange and the engine mount. I have trimmed the flange to get > >> about 3/16" clearance between the oil cooler and engine mount, but > >> wonder if that is enough. I'd appreciate any advice from those with > >> flying aircraft. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) > >> Ottawa, Canada > >> http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 > >> > >> > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 20, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Why? [Please Read]
Dear Listers, Each year I like to explain why I have a Fund Raiser and also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here provide a superior experience over the commercial equivalents. I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to sell little-blue-pills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year during November to encourage members to support the Lists. I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer many benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first feature I believe to be significant is that you cannot receive a computer v*rus from any of these Lists directly. Each incoming message is filtered and dangerous attachments stripped off prior to posting. I also provide a Photo and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and simple. Another very important feature of this system in my opinion is the extensive List Archives that are available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the way back to the very beginning of each List and with the very fast Search Engine, the huge size of some of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the data you're looking for. And added just this year is the new Email List Forum that allows members who prefer the Web BBS-style of List interaction. The beauty of the new List Forums is that they contain the exact same content that is distributed via email. Messages posted via email are cross-posted to the respective Forum and vice versa. The Forums also allow for another convenient method of sharing pictures and other files. Additionally added this year is the new List Wiki that allows members to build their own "Online List Encyclopedia" of sorts, documenting various aspects of their project for all to share. I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys I knew and who where also building RVs. It has grown into nearly 70 different aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over 23,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List Email system forwarded well over 87,000 postings last year, accounting for an unbelievable 39,000,000 (yes, that's 39 MILLION) email messages delivered to Matronics List subscribers! I think there's a lot of value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still providing and improving a high quality service all _without any advertising budget_! I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email Message, Search the Archives, use the List Browser, or surf the Forums and Wiki sites. The Lists will be here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free, that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual List Fund Raiser! List Contribution Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you, Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: hmorris575(at)att.net
Subject: What is the main subject matter of this list?
Date: Nov 20, 2006
Hi all, I was looking for an Recreation Vehicle List that I used to belong to yesterday and this was the only hit on Google. By the Navigator this list seems to be about aviation and/or building your own RV. This would have been a great list for my Dad who was a WWII Army Air Corps pilot, but it may be above my head. -- fondly yours, Corlee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Albert Gardner" <ibspud(at)adelphia.net>
Subject: Route through NM
Date: Nov 20, 2006
Not sure about points farther east but exercise care in the Eloy, AZ area (E60)-much parachute activity there, so don't overfly. Also, east of Brown Field (SDM) there is skydiving both north and south of V317. I'd suggest you join that airway by the time you pass over Reider Ranch (CA75).which is just outside of San Diego's TCA. Check your chart-lot's of parachute and soaring activity in SoCal. Albert Gardner Yuma, AZ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Fuel line question (Dana) _ W R O N G C A R B F I T T I N
G ?
Date: Nov 21, 2006
From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
I seem to recall a special Lycoming P/N fuel line fitting #6 all steel that threads into the carb with a jam nut with a "O" ring to seal. You have a normal aluminum fitting threaded into the carb. I would go with the steel fitting. Now for your clearance problem. Can the 90 degree carb fitting rotate up and a 45 fitting be added to route your feed line away from the exhaust work ? I have used universal steel 45's and 90's (JIC) #6 to do such routing. I also recall the Lycoming steel nipple being "O" ringed just for this case where you need exact orientation AND fuel sealing. Without the "O" ring thingy you are at the mercy of snugging the tapered pipe threaded fitting of the standard fitting down to disallow fluid leaking but not aligning as needed...... > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:44 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Fuel line question > > > Look at this picture if you would please: > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/fuel1.jpg > > This is the small fuel line instead of the called out longer one. My > issue, > the instructions call a 45 degree fitting to come out of the carb. If I > use > that, the fuel line passes right over the exhaust. The 90 degree fitting > parallels the exhaust but still is within an inch. In addition, as you > can > see in the picture, the fuel line make a 90 degree "curve" that "just > ain't > right". More here, the firesleeves rubs the engine mount which will not > viabrate. > > Suggestions or "ID'ers" > > Could someone please post a link showing there fuel line run from the > mechanical fuel pump to the carb. > > I need to get this firewall forward stuff done as the painter just called > to > say he painted the flying surfaces BLACK over the weekend!! > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 > http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: FW: Fuel line question (Dana) Source for JIC fitings (Universal
steel #6 )
Date: Nov 21, 2006
From: "Condon, Philip M." <pcondon(at)mitre.org>
http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/SearchResults.asp Look for p/n 6500 & 6502 ON THE ABOVE LINK. These are great for close quarters rerouting by stringing these in combo or whatever. My local hydraulic store has em'. I goggled JIC #6 to get the pictures for you. You still need a #6 steel Lycoming "O" ring carb fitting. Those are available either as 45, 90 or straight. -----Original Message----- From: Condon, Philip M. Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:05 AM Subject: FW: Fuel line question (Dana) _ W R O N G C A R B F I T T I N G ? -----Original Message----- From: Condon, Philip M. Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:03 AM Cc: Condon, Philip M. Subject: Fuel line question (Dana) _ W R O N G C A R B F I T T I N G ? I seem to recall a special Lycoming P/N fuel line fitting #6 all steel that threads into the carb with a jam nut with a "O" ring to seal. You have a normal aluminum fitting threaded into the carb. I would go with the steel fitting. Now for your clearance problem. Can the 90 degree carb fitting rotate up and a 45 fitting be added to route your feed line away from the exhaust work ? I have used universal steel 45's and 90's (JIC) #6 to do such routing. I also recall the Lycoming steel nipple being "O" ringed just for this case where you need exact orientation AND fuel sealing. Without the "O" ring thingy you are at the mercy of snugging the tapered pipe threaded fitting of the standard fitting down to disallow fluid leaking but not aligning as needed...... > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dana Overall > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:44 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Fuel line question > > > Look at this picture if you would please: > > http://rvflying.tripod.com/fuel1.jpg > > This is the small fuel line instead of the called out longer one. My > issue, > the instructions call a 45 degree fitting to come out of the carb. If I > use > that, the fuel line passes right over the exhaust. The 90 degree fitting > parallels the exhaust but still is within an inch. In addition, as you > can > see in the picture, the fuel line make a 90 degree "curve" that "just > ain't > right". More here, the firesleeves rubs the engine mount which will not > viabrate. > > Suggestions or "ID'ers" > > Could someone please post a link showing there fuel line run from the > mechanical fuel pump to the carb. > > I need to get this firewall forward stuff done as the painter just called > to > say he painted the flying surfaces BLACK over the weekend!! > > Dana Overall > Richmond, KY i39 > RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" > O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 > http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 21, 2006
From: "Paul A. Barker" <pbarker(at)hughes.net>
Subject: Searching for a self-etching primer
This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know that the aircraft will spend all of its days here. We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been using with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in rattle cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we move to larger assemblies. P. A. Barker RV-9 (tail kit) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com>
Subject: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 21, 2006
Have a look at SEM Self-Etching Primer. It comes in rattle-cans, quarts, and gallons. http://www.sem.ws/product.php?product_id=139 I really like the stuff. Brad Oliver RV-7 | Livermore, CA www.RV7Factory.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Barker Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know that the aircraft will spend all of its days here. We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been using with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in rattle cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we move to larger assemblies. P. A. Barker RV-9 (tail kit) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Nov 22, 2006
From: Matt Dralle <dralle(at)matronics.com>
Subject: Please Make a Contribution to Support Your Lists...
Dear Listers, Just a reminder that November is the Annual List Fund Raiser. Please make a Contribution today to support the continued operation and upgrade of these great List services!! Pick up a really nice free gift with your qualifying Contribution too! The Contribution Site is fast and easy: http://www.matronics.com/contribution Thank you! Matt Dralle Matronics Email List Administrator ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Smitty" <smitty(at)smittysrv.com>
Subject: Re: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 22, 2006
I'm using 988 - G.B.P. Self Etching Primer Aerosol from Sherwin Williams and like it a lot. http://www.sherwin-automotive.com/products/show_product.cfm?product=7565 Smitty's RV-9A http://SmittysRV.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul A. Barker" <pbarker(at)hughes.net> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 10:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer > > This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner > and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion > isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know > that the aircraft will spend all of its days here. > > We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to > self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been > using with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in > rattle cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we > move to larger assemblies. > > P. A. Barker > RV-9 (tail kit) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dana Overall" <bo124rs(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: : Fuel line question (Dana) Now Steel fittings
Date: Nov 22, 2006
OK, that is good enough for me. I took the "do not thing" off my signature line. Great work guys. Dana Overall Richmond, KY i39 RV-7 slider, Imron black, "Black Magic" O 360 A1A, C/S C2YK-1BF/F7666A4 http://rvflying.tripod.com/id30.html >From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com> >The only fitting that has to be steel is the prop governor line connection >at the front of the case, for those Lycomings with rear mounted governors. >Those were aluminum originally and had a history of cracking. linn Walters >wrote: >>Originally I heard that it was due to aluminum melting prior to steel in a >>fire. OK, that's reasonable if you plan on an engine compartment fire. >>However, I doubt the integrity of the fittings will make a whole lot of >>difference in the eventual outcome. Then someone said that steel >>fittings were more resistant to o >>fatigue cracking. OK, that sounds reasonable. Balance the prop. >>FWIW, I have aluminum fittings in the engine compartment of my Pitts >>...... because I had them and it was before I knew about the 'concern'. >>They've been faithful for 25 years now. Hmmm. Maybe I should worry??? >>Wonder what the warranty period is. >>Linn _________________________________________________________________ Fixing up the home? Live Search can help ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Nov 22, 2006
Subject: Re: Searching for a self-etching primer
In a message dated 11/21/2006 11:01:11 PM Central Standard Time, pbarker(at)hughes.net writes: We've heard some passing references to self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been using with success. Have a look-see here: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=4863 Still very pleased with the 988. >From The PossumWorks in TN Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 22, 2006
Paul, I used both the SW and the SEM self etching primers and found them equal in performance. Suggest you buy the one that is convenient for you to purchase. Not sure if either one is available in exact same formulation in gallons. I switched to the rattle cans after using a gallon of the SW wash primer. Hard to beat the convenience of the rattle cans. Application note for rattle cans: Spray on light wet coats. If applied too dry (rattle can too far from substrate) the acid etch can not do it's job of getting a bite into the aluminum. Dale Ensing > We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to > self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been > using with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in > rattle cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we > move to larger assemblies. > > P. A. Barker > RV-9 (tail kit) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 22, 2006
Everyone will have a different opinion on primers, but I used to use SEM and now I use the NAPA brand. The NAPA brand has a much better nozzle and in my experience, the paint stick better. brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul A. Barker Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know that the aircraft will spend all of its days here. We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been using with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in rattle cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we move to larger assemblies. P. A. Barker RV-9 (tail kit) -- 9:20 PM -- 9:01 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Randy Lervold" <randy(at)romeolima.com>
Subject: Re: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 22, 2006
Ditto on the SEM, further info here... http://www.romeolima.com/RV3works/Airframe/airframe.htm#Primer Randy Lervold ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:53 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer > > > Have a look at SEM Self-Etching Primer. It comes in rattle-cans, quarts, > and gallons. > http://www.sem.ws/product.php?product_id=139 > > I really like the stuff. > > Brad Oliver > RV-7 | Livermore, CA > www.RV7Factory.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Barker > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:57 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer > > > This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner > and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion > isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know > that > the aircraft will spend all of its days here. > > We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to > self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been > using > with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in > rattle > cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we move to > larger assemblies. > > P. A. Barker > RV-9 (tail kit) > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "WILLIAM AGSTER" <BAGSTERJR(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 22, 2006
I am using the alumiprep, alodine, and AKZO two part epoxy primer on all structural parts and using the Stewart Systems white primer on the insides of all skins. The Stewart Systems product is great, easy to spray with a small air detail spray gun and cleans up easy with water. MY reasons are that I am told it make for easy detection for any cracks in interior, leaking fluids, smoking rivets, and brightens up interior when inspecting. I am really happy with the ease of application and the toughness of the product (read fairly resistant to scratching when assembling parts). I do not use it fast enough to buy the gallons, but I buy it by the quart. Roughly six quarts will do all interior skins on a -7. I have a friend who is using it on all skins and all structural parts on a 9A. He turned me on to the product and it is great! I probably will be painting my exterior with Stewart Systems also. Bill Agster 7A-N174BJ reserved ----- Original Message ----- From: Paul A. Barker<mailto:pbarker(at)hughes.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 9:57 PM Subject: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer > This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know that the aircraft will spend all of its days here. We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to self-etching primers and would like to know which ones folks have been using with success. We would like to find something that comes packaged in rattle cans for small jobs, but is also available by the gallon when we move to larger assemblies. P. A. Barker RV-9 (tail kit) www.aeroelectric.com<http://www.aeroelectric.com/> www.buildersbooks.com<http://www.buildersbooks.com/> www.kitlog.com<http://www.kitlog.com/> www.homebuilthelp.com<http://www.homebuilthelp.com/> http://www.matronics.com/contribution on> http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ator?RV-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Searching for a self-etching primer
Date: Nov 23, 2006
SEM self etching primer is good but a word of caution is in order. If you plan to apply a finish coat over the SEM you must first lay on a coat of regular primer that is compatible with the finish. If you skip this step you will find that the finish coat doesen't adhere well to the SEM and the top coat will eventually start to peel in places, usually the most visible and obvious places. Don't bother asking me how I learned this. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, 291 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: "Bradley Oliver" <brad(at)rv7factory.com> > > > Have a look at SEM Self-Etching Primer. It comes in rattle-cans, quarts, > and gallons. > http://www.sem.ws/product.php?product_id=139 > > I really like the stuff. > > Brad Oliver > RV-7 | Livermore, CA > www.RV7Factory.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul A. Barker > Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 8:57 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Searching for a self-etching primer > > > This is not intended to re-ignite the primer wars, but my building partner > and I have decided to prime the inside of our aircraft. Although corrosion > isn't a big issue here in the middle of the middle west, we don't know that > the aircraft will spend all of its days here. > > We want to keep it simple. We've heard some passing references to

RV-Archive.digest.vol-sj

RV-Archive.digest.vol-sj