RV-Archive.digest.vol-sp

February 11, 2007 - March 02, 2007



      
      Dave Cudney
      
         Don't 4get the Riverside Airshow is coming up on March 31
      Those RVers who would like to are invited to come by the
      Hangar (GM 1 just west of the tower) for Hamburgers and
      Hot dogs.  It is also a great  place to view the Airshow.
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 11, 2007
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Alternate tailwheel ?
Could it have been the Bell tailwheel fork? If you have the time to wait for one, they are fantastic. One of the best pieces of machining for aftermarket RV parts (and better than most standard RV parts) I've ever seen. Pricey, and it might take a few months to get. I know Vince was offering one too, but haven't seen it. Either way, the new angle of tailwheel brackets are awesome. I love my Bell tailwheel fork. Never thought it would make that much difference, but it really does. Paul Besing Gerry Filby wrote: This past couple of weeks there was a posting about a replacement tailwheel that increases the ground clearance - its a very similar design to the Vans one but the fork is angled downwards to increase the clearance. (This is not the Aviation Products one - that's to wide to fit in a tailwheel pant.) Anyone remember ? g --------------------------------- Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Steve Glasgow" <willfly(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: F1 Rocket for sale
Date: Feb 12, 2007
This one is awesome. http://www.vansairforce.net/buildermodifications/tailwheel/Tailwheel_Doug Bell.htm Contact for Doug. dbell(at)manisteenational.com Steve Glasgow-Cappy N123SG RV-8 Cappy's Toy ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve
Date: Feb 12, 2007
Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve like the "real" planes have? Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve
Date: Feb 12, 2007
Salvage yard - buy "real" plane valve. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Reynolds Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:11 AM Subject: RV-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve like the "real" planes have? Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Richard Reynolds <rvreynolds(at)macs.net>
Subject: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX
Date: Feb 12, 2007
OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc. Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve for superior crafted OBAM planes? Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve like the "real" planes have? Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Martin" <martin(at)gbonline.com>
Subject: Re: Backup Battery Size?
Date: Feb 12, 2007
John, I used a small 7amp battery from B&C as suggested by them It works good and lasts between 3 & 4 years. I put the last one in my lawnmower and it still works. Dick Martin RV8 N233M ----- Original Message ----- From: John Fasching To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2007 4:30 PM Subject: RV-List: Backup Battery Size? Those of you with dual electronic ignition systems that have opted for a backup battery: What capacity backup battery did you opt for? 3.5AH, 5AH or what? Suggestions if you recall a battery name/number. Thanks ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FASTPILOTRV8(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 12, 2007
Subject: All Electric RV ?
All Electric RV which way to go? I have and all electric panel, so my question is do I install a A. Second Alternator (12 Amp B&C) using existing battery B. Backup battery only with a switch C. Second Alternator and a Backup Battery I am already have been using an Ex-Bus for 4 years, (which has a specific 5 amp circuit for charging a aux battery). My battery is in the tail due to weight and balance. Back up plan also includes a TruTrac ADI with backup battery/GPS, hand held Garmin 195, and a hand held I-Com hand held radio. I do fly IFR. So where I need opinions & experiances on which method do I use ? Who can tell me where to get some wiring diagrams (other than Bob Knuckols) and the parts ? Dane Sheahen N838RV RV8a ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: new tailwheel
Date: Feb 12, 2007
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
******* Could it have been the Bell tailwheel fork? If you have the time to wait for one, they are fantastic. One of the best pieces of machining for aftermarket RV parts (and better than most standard RV parts) I've ever seen. Pricey, and it might take a few months to get. I know Vince was offering one too, but haven't seen it. Either way, the new angle of tailwheel brackets are awesome. I love my Bell tailwheel fork. Never thought it would make that much difference, but it really does.************ It was me who offered another alterative to the Van's units. My units differ from the Bell units in that mine are wrapped steel sheet (similar to Van's) while the Bell units are tube steel. Mine have less frontal area and will accept a wheel pant. My units are all 4130 steel, CNC machined, and tig welded. I have shipped 40 units in the past 2 months. So far, all the feedback I have received has been about the improved performance and high quality. I typically have plenty of the units in stock and ready to ship. Prices are $175 for a fork to retrofit your Van's full swivel tailwheel or $241 if you need the whole unit. Shipping is an extra $14 to US customers. I also have a full compliment of spare parts that will fit the Van's units, tailwheel tires, axle spacers, sealed (no greasy mess) bearings, and other stuff... like a wide array of vinyl graphics, N-numbers, military insignia, stripes, checkerboards, etc.. Check it out. Vince Frazier Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2007
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: All Electric RV ?
>Since you fly IFR I suspect that dual alternator and battery is your best bet. If you only have one battery and two alternators would you continue flying if the battery died? Likewise, if you have two batteries and the one alternator dies would you continue flying or land? Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: All Electric RV ?
Date: Feb 12, 2007
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com>
There are as many opinions on this as there are ideas. My 2 cents after owning 2 all electric RV's for over 2k hours. 1. Batteries don't fail. More than 1 is not necessary 2. Alternators do fail. I have lost ~6, including one IMC. Never needed 2 though. 3. I have plenty of juice in my battery to get me to my destination or some other suitable location 4. Your far more likely to have a device fail than "the system" 5. too complex means too much trouble, complexity, weight, & headache 6. If you cant find what your looking for with all of Bobs diagrams, Im not sure where you would. You can easily make subtle changes to any one of those to suit your needs. 7. Best to write down all your failure modes that are in the realm of possibility and see if your system supports them, including multiples of them. Its gong to be very hard to provide you advice without knowing your mission objectives. I fly IFR is really not enough. Do you do mostly punch throughs and let downs? Do you generally NEED to get somewhere regardless of weather? Are you more cautious and conservative, or more liberal on your decisions? Are your minimums minimums, or well above that? Have you actually killed your system in flight, fired up the battery backup, and tried to fly to a suitable location under the hood? Have you considered all your likely failure modes and worked em through? Just some random thoughts for you. Mike _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of FASTPILOTRV8(at)aol.com Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 10:19 AM Subject: RV-List: All Electric RV ? All Electric RV which way to go? I have and all electric panel, so my question is do I install a A. Second Alternator (12 Amp B&C) using existing battery B. Backup battery only with a switch C. Second Alternator and a Backup Battery I am already have been using an Ex-Bus for 4 years, (which has a specific 5 amp circuit for charging a aux battery). My battery is in the tail due to weight and balance. Back up plan also includes a TruTrac ADI with backup battery/GPS, hand held Garmin 195, and a hand held I-Com hand held radio. I do fly IFR. So where I need opinions & experiances on which method do I use ? Who can tell me where to get some wiring diagrams (other than Bob Knuckols) and the parts ? Dane Sheahen N838RV RV8a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "T.C. Chang" <tc1234c(at)roadrunner.com>
Subject: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX
Date: Feb 12, 2007
I use a nylo-seal union tee to tie into the static line and a bulkhead union to serve as the valve. On the open end of the union I seal off the nut with glue. Just turn the nut to open the alternate air valve (one or two turns). It works well for me. Ted Part number from Aircraft Spruce: Union Tee: 264-N 04 Bulkhead union: 282-N 04 -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Reynolds Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:50 AM Subject: RV-List: Static Air System - Alternate Air Valve- REDUX OK,I 'm sorry, apologize, etc. Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve for superior crafted OBAM planes? Does anyone have a source or suggestion for the alternate air valve like the "real" planes have? Richard Reynolds ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 12, 2007
Subject: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
One of these ... http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? g ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Panama" <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: I've sworn off purge valve installations
Date: Feb 12, 2007
I am sorry to get into this dog fight a little late, but, I do not understand. My engine definately is hard to start and hard to keep running at idle during hot weather. I run an IO-360 (180 hp) Bendix FI system. On taxi to and back from the runway on a hot day I get some pretty violent engine surges, settles down with boost pump on. It can take 30-40 revolutions to start the engine. Before I installed the purge valve, one time during a hotstart I had to take the cowl off and wait 90 minutes for engine cool down! I have even been supervised by Don Rivera himself during engine startup. My current solution; don't fly in hot weather If this is not vapor lock, then what is it? . You guys really got me confused Bob I have a problem when, in the absence of any clear data, a malfunction is attributed to 'vapor lock'. I've put up with all the rhetoric for a lot of years running auto fuel ..... in FL, on hot days, with both injected and carb'd engines (yep, run auto fuel through the injected engine too ..... but not near as much as through a carb) with nary a hiccup. Not even any more hard starting problems than using 100LL. I guess the statement 'looked like vapor lock to me' just rubbed me the wrong way. Sorry. I really would rather have statements backed up by data or first-person-experience, not (to seal a line from a song) 'I heard it from a friend, who, heard it from a friend, who .... '. The point I tried to make (and failed, I guess) is that all that engine running after startup should have purged any heat-soaked fuel. Once the heat soaked fuel is gone (from the firewall forward), the possibility of vapor lock goes way down ...... ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
Date: Feb 12, 2007
From: "Brad Templin" <btemplin(at)templinelectronics.com>
I've got one for a DB-25 - you're welcome to if that'll work for you.... I was lucky - I found it in a surplus store. Brad ________________________________ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com on behalf of Gerry Filby Sent: Mon 2/12/2007 5:35 PM Subject: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? One of these ... http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? g ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: I've sworn off purge valve installations
Date: Feb 12, 2007
This certainly sounds like it could be vapour lock. What things have you done to the fuel system to try to improve the situation? Kevin Horton On 12 Feb 2007, at 18:44, Panama wrote: > I am sorry to get into this dog fight a little late, but, I do not > understand. My engine definately is hard to start and hard to keep > running at idle during hot weather. I run an IO-360 (180 hp) > Bendix FI system. > > On taxi to and back from the runway on a hot day I get some pretty > violent engine surges, settles down with boost pump on. It can > take 30-40 revolutions to start the engine. Before I installed the > purge valve, one time during a hotstart I had to take the cowl off > and wait 90 minutes for engine cool down! I have even been > supervised by Don Rivera himself during engine startup. My current > solution; don't fly in hot weather > > If this is not vapor lock, then what is it? . > > You guys really got me confused > > Bob > > > I have a problem when, in the absence of any clear data, a > malfunction is attributed to 'vapor lock'. I've put up with all > the rhetoric for a lot of years running auto fuel ..... in FL, on > hot days, with both injected and carb'd engines (yep, run auto fuel > through the injected engine too ..... but not near as much as > through a carb) with nary a hiccup. Not even any more hard > starting problems than using 100LL. I guess the statement 'looked > like vapor lock to me' just rubbed me the wrong way. Sorry. I > really would rather have statements backed up by data or first- > person-experience, not (to seal a line from a song) 'I heard it > from a friend, who, heard it from a friend, who .... '. > > The point I tried to make (and failed, I guess) is that all that > engine running after startup should have purged any heat-soaked > fuel. Once the heat soaked fuel is gone (from the firewall > forward), the possibility of vapor lock goes way down ...... > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2007
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
They're scarce. And, as you say, expensive. Best bet (if the metal isn't too thick) is to use a nibbbler tool to make the square opening (measure on the short side) and use a file to get the longer side. You can also use a drill to hog out most of the cutout and go from there. No matter what, it'll be some work ..... but I doubt that you'll be able to make enough DB cutouts to justify the punch. Linn ..... always done it the hard way. Gerry Filby wrote: > One of these ... > > http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 > > Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? > > g > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Duckworks Light Dimensions
Date: Feb 12, 2007
I'm looking for a couple of dimensions from the "standard" duckworks landing light kit, and hope someone can help me out. First, what is the overall width of the cutout in the leading edge? Second, what is the overall height of the cutout in the leading edge? (Note, I need the height of the opening in a wing, not the template dimension). Third, I need the height of the aluminum backing plate for the light. You ask why? I'm scouring the web for a cheap HID upgrade that'll fit without too much work. Thanks in advance... Kyle Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
Date: Feb 12, 2007
That price is ridiculous. Use a drill, Dremel and needle file and be done in 15 minutes. That is, unless you need 20+... Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? One of these ... http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? g ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 12, 2007
From: Kelly McMullen <kellym(at)aviating.com>
Subject: Re: I've sworn off purge valve installations
First you have to consider the brand of injection. Bendix does not need a purge valve(unlike aftermarket brands). I operate my Mooney(200hp IO360) with it in AZ in 110+ temps and rarely have any hot start problems. Yours sounds like it is out of adjustment. Does your pull to idle cutoff give a 50rpm rise, or less? Any more than that is too rich, no rise is too lean. How long since the servo was overhauled or checked on a flow bench? They do need service after several years. Are you giving enough throttle for cranking? I use 1/2" for first try, 1" for second. After about 6 blades I start easing the mixture in slowly, and it usually catches at 1/2 way in on mixture. If that doesn't get it, go full throttle, mixture idle cutoff, which after a dozen blades will have any flooding/vapor cleared if it doesn't catch. Panama wrote: > I am sorry to get into this dog fight a little late, but, I do not > understand. My engine definately is hard to start and hard to keep > running at idle during hot weather. I run an IO-360 (180 hp) Bendix > FI system. > > On taxi to and back from the runway on a hot day I get some pretty > violent engine surges, settles down with boost pump on. It can take > 30-40 revolutions to start the engine. Before I installed the purge > valve, one time during a hotstart I had to take the cowl off and wait > 90 minutes for engine cool down! I have even been supervised by Don > Rivera himself during engine startup. My current solution; don't fly > in hot weather > > If this is not vapor lock, then what is it? . > > You guys really got me confused > > Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
Couldn't agree more - but that's the going rate pretty much everywhere I 've looked. The problem is my panel is already installed and I just don't want metal shavings flying around my instruments. g -----Original Message----- From: Bret Smith [mailto:smithhb(at)tds.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 06:50 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? That price is ridiculous. Use a drill, Dremel and needle file and be done in 15 minutes. That is, unless you need 20+... Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ------------------------------------------------------------ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server@mat ronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? One of these ... http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? g href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.m ======== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
Date: Feb 12, 2007
McMaster Carr has em for about $180 Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 9:11 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? Couldn't agree more - but that's the going rate pretty much everywhere I've looked. The problem is my panel is already installed and I just don't want metal shavings flying around my instruments. g -----Original Message----- From: Bret Smith [mailto:smithhb(at)tds.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 06:50 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? That price is ridiculous. Use a drill, Dremel and needle file and be done in 15 minutes. That is, unless you need 20+... Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:35 PM Subject: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? One of these ... http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? g href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2007
From: "Patty Hamilton" <PGILLIES(at)gwm.sc.edu>
Subject: 4th Annual Palmetto Wing Fly-In April 7
The Palmetto Wing of Vans Air Force Invites any and all RV pilots/flyers/builders, EAA members To the fourth annual PALMETTO RV FLYIN COOKOUT Saturday, April 7th No Rain date since Sunday is Easter (If it rains we will be eating a lot of hamburger) Columbia Downtown Owens Field Airport Columbia, SC Palmetto Burgers and Carolina Dogs Grills will be fired up at 11:00 AM No Program No Vendors No Speeches No Organization No Charge (Donations Accepted for EAA Chapter 242) Just good food, RVs, and friendly conversation. www.airnav.com/airport/KCUB Note right traffic for runway 13 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bill VonDane" <bill(at)vondane.com>
Subject: Re: Duckworks Light Dimensions
Date: Feb 13, 2007
Hey Kyle... Are you talking about the rectangular lights that go in the leading edge of the wings?? I am working on an HID replacement for those lights... Drop me a line... -Bill VonDane www.creativair.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:02 PM Subject: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions I'm looking for a couple of dimensions from the "standard" duckworks landing light kit, and hope someone can help me out. First, what is the overall width of the cutout in the leading edge? Second, what is the overall height of the cutout in the leading edge? (Note, I need the height of the opening in a wing, not the template dimension). Third, I need the height of the aluminum backing plate for the light. You ask why? I'm scouring the web for a cheap HID upgrade that'll fit without too much work. Thanks in advance... Kyle Boatright ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ?
Date: Feb 13, 2007
Gerry, this is where you get creative and rig a vacuum hose right up to where you are cutting... Bret Smith RV-9A "Wings" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 12:11 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? Couldn't agree more - but that's the going rate pretty much everywhere I've looked. The problem is my panel is already installed and I just don't want metal shavings flying around my instruments. g -----Original Message----- From: Bret Smith [mailto:smithhb(at)tds.net] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 06:50 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? That price is ridiculous. Use a drill, Dremel and needle file and be done in 15 minutes. That is, unless you need 20+... Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------- --- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Filby Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 5:35 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Anyone got a DB9 knock-out punch ? One of these ... http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=6949 Expensive little bu****s ... anyone got one an prepared to lease/loan ? g href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Larygagnon(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 2007
Subject: Re: Duckworks Light Dimensions
I have a paper template on the wall from my 6 that I'm going to use on the 6A I'm building. The hole is 4 3/4 wide by 5 1/4 inches tall. I measured 4 1/2 inches from the edge of the skin at the wing tip inboard to the outside of the hole. It's 18 3/4 inches forward from the skin edge to the top of the hole. The plate is whatever fits between the end rib and the first one inboard. I have one angled down and one angled forward on my taildragger but I'll put just one in the 6A aimed forward. Hope that helps. Larry Gagnon N6LG ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 13, 2007
From: Mitchell Faatz <mitch(at)skybound.com>
Subject: NAV audio hum - simple question
I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin (on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60 millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care, because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present (mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question: Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is running? If so, my choices are 1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered "normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks. 2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel, which I would like to avoid. Thanks for any educated responses! Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 13, 2007
Subject: Re: NAV audio hum - simple question
Mitch, I don't have a simple answer for you, but forget the T-Pass filter. The reactance of 100 pF at 1500 Hz is about 1 megohm. In other words, you have inserted 500 + 500 ohms in series and will just knock down all audio frequencies the same. On the other hand maybe this is what you need to do. Sixty millivolts is 24 dB below a 1 volt signal. One volt at 500 ohms is 2 milliwatts. Sixty millivolts is 7.2 microwatts. It seems to me like you may not have a problem. The question is, what is the audio level out of the 430 when you tune in a VOR station? Is the hum small compared to that level? Small would be say 30 dB below that level (about 3 percent). So if your signal level is more than 2 volts, then don't worry about it. If it causes too much noise, you can use a resistive pad to lower the level from the 430 into the intercom and still have enough VOR audio. I don't know the schematic of your intercom, but maybe you could reduce the 430 audio level there. Dan Hopper RV-7A Retired EE In a message dated 2/13/2007 4:20:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, mitch(at)skybound.com writes: I've verified the hum coming out of the Garmin 430's NAV 1 audio hi pin (on connector 4006), it has peaks at 500 and 1500 Hz, and is 60 millivolts when measured with an oscilloscope. Many people won't care about this because they have audio panels and the NAV audio is typically turned off all the time unless you're identifying a VOR. I care, because I don't have an audio panel and my NAV 1 audio is always present (mixed by Bob's Iso Amp with COM audio, marker beacon, and traffic warnings). I can knock down the level of the hum a little bit with a T-Pass filter of sorts: two 500 ohm resisters with a 100 pF cap going to ground in the middle. I have hi-buck Bose-X noise canceling headphones and stereo music, and here is the million dollar question: Will a 60 millivolt hum into an intercom be audible when the engine is running? If so, my choices are 1) return the unit to Garmin for testing/fixing (hopefully), might have a bad capacitor on board or something, or it might be considered "normal" by them, in which case I've just wasted two weeks. 2) put the nav 1 audio on an on/off switch on the instrument panel, which I would like to avoid. Thanks for any educated responses! Mitch Faatz RV-6A Never Ending Finish Kit Auburn, CA ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 13, 2007
Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns out the fire crews did testify. http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
Subject: RV-8 Tail Kit for sale
Date: Feb 13, 2007
I have an RV8 tail kit for sale. Pre punched. Horizontal Stab. is completed. Excellent workmanship. Includes electric trim kit. Stabilizer is crated and ready to ship. Jetjoc 859-361-9460 algrajek(at)msn.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net>
Subject: All electric RV!
Gotta agree with Dan here. Last year about this time I was trying to finalize my electrical system and had decided that I was going to add a second alternator on the vacuum pump pad as backup. But while I was drawing up everything on autocad I also did quite a bit of thinking. I have been a reader of the Aeroelectric list for the last 4 years. Those that partake of that list know that there has been much weeping and nashing of teeth in a multi-month debate that has been raging about internally regulated versus externally regulated alternators. Several people who bought internally regulated alternators from auto parts stores (and a few from Van's) have had problems with them and some multiple problems. I'd heard a lot about the B&C externally regulated alternators (modern day Nippon Denso modified for external regulation and balanced to minimize vibration). I'd also heard that B&C had very few returns on these units over a long period of time and people on the list who'd used them confirmed that premise. So....much as I did NOT want to spend the money (about three times the price of a NEW alternator from an auto parts store), I returned Van's internally regulated unit and bought the B&C 60 amp unit and regulator. I originally left off the backup alternator from my CAD drawings thinking that I'd add it later and install it after the airplane flies (I've been working on this RV-6 for 10 years and want to get it in the air). But after all the hallaballoo on the aeroelectric list and the talk of how reliable the B&C alternators are, I gave it some more thought and now keep asking myself if I need to do the aux alternator at all. Although I plan on doing instrument flying (when necessary) I don't expect it to be an "all-the-time" thing. This airplane is my traveling machine and stress reliever not an air taxi and if the weather is really bad I plan on staying on the ground. I decided that since, the B&C alternator is so reliable, I have a magneto on one side, a backup battery inside my Dynon EFIS and my mission is not IFR all the time....there is no need to install the aux alternator right now (or maybe ever). Everything is new right now, including the alternator and I don't want to spend the time and effort to install and wire an aux alternator into my system right now. And, I'd rather not spend another $1000 for the unit and its regulator since I've gone way over budget on this airplane already. Just a few thoughts for you to ponder. No I don't work for B&C and, I don't like the price on these alternators but, if it turns out to be as reliable as they say, it will have been worth it (and I shouldn't need to worry about a back up for a long time). Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Registering and paying those use taxes, oh boy! -----------------Original message----------------------------- >From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric RV ? > >None of the above (or below as the case may be). How much truly "in the >solid soup" IFR flying do you really plan to do? How much soup time >have you logged in the past 1-2 years? How many of those flights was a >MUST scenario and not a MIGHT scenario (where you HAD to be somewhere). >Be honest. > >Unless your engine depends on electrons flowing for the fan to keep >turning (i.e. dual electronic ignition without backup such as LASAR or >P-Mag), I'm a big proponent of KISS. And that means one battery, one >HIGH QUALITY alternator, done deal. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: All electric RV!
Date: Feb 14, 2007
Dean, I am as "Thrifty" as the next guy but I a have a B&C set up on my RV6-A and it will be the same on the Rocket I am building. Tom in Sunny Ohio (10G) ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:57 AM Subject: RV-List: All electric RV! > > > Gotta agree with Dan here. Last year about this time I was trying to > finalize my electrical system and had decided that I was going to add a > second alternator on the vacuum pump pad as backup. But while I was > drawing > up everything on autocad I also did quite a bit of thinking. I have been > a > reader of the Aeroelectric list for the last 4 years. Those that partake > of > that list know that there has been much weeping and nashing of teeth in a > multi-month debate that has been raging about internally regulated versus > externally regulated alternators. > > Several people who bought internally regulated alternators from auto parts > stores (and a few from Van's) have had problems with them and some > multiple > problems. I'd heard a lot about the B&C externally regulated alternators > (modern day Nippon Denso modified for external regulation and balanced to > minimize vibration). I'd also heard that B&C had very few returns on > these > units over a long period of time and people on the list who'd used them > confirmed that premise. So....much as I did NOT want to spend the money > (about three times the price of a NEW alternator from an auto parts > store), > I returned Van's internally regulated unit and bought the B&C 60 amp unit > and regulator. > > I originally left off the backup alternator from my CAD drawings thinking > that I'd add it later and install it after the airplane flies (I've been > working on this RV-6 for 10 years and want to get it in the air). But > after > all the hallaballoo on the aeroelectric list and the talk of how reliable > the B&C alternators are, I gave it some more thought and now keep asking > myself if I need to do the aux alternator at all. Although I plan on > doing > instrument flying (when necessary) I don't expect it to be an > "all-the-time" > thing. This airplane is my traveling machine and stress reliever not an > air > taxi and if the weather is really bad I plan on staying on the ground. I > decided that since, the B&C alternator is so reliable, I have a magneto on > one side, a backup battery inside my Dynon EFIS and my mission is not IFR > all the time....there is no need to install the aux alternator right now > (or > maybe ever). > > Everything is new right now, including the alternator and I don't want to > spend the time and effort to install and wire an aux alternator into my > system right now. And, I'd rather not spend another $1000 for the unit > and > its regulator since I've gone way over budget on this airplane already. > Just > a few thoughts for you to ponder. No I don't work for B&C and, I don't > like > the price on these alternators but, if it turns out to be as reliable as > they say, it will have been worth it (and I shouldn't need to worry about > a > back up for a long time). > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Registering and paying those use taxes, oh boy! > > > -----------------Original message----------------------------- >>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric RV ? >> >>None of the above (or below as the case may be). How much truly "in the >>solid soup" IFR flying do you really plan to do? How much soup time >>have you logged in the past 1-2 years? How many of those flights was a >>MUST scenario and not a MIGHT scenario (where you HAD to be somewhere). >>Be honest. >> >>Unless your engine depends on electrons flowing for the fan to keep >>turning (i.e. dual electronic ignition without backup such as LASAR or >>P-Mag), I'm a big proponent of KISS. And that means one battery, one >>HIGH QUALITY alternator, done deal. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Re: All electric RV!
Date: Feb 14, 2007
Dean, You have just eloquently detailed what Bob N calls the "worry bucket". Bret Smith RV-9A "Wings" Blue Ridge, GA www.FlightInnovations.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 1:57 AM Subject: RV-List: All electric RV! > > > Gotta agree with Dan here. Last year about this time I was trying to > finalize my electrical system and had decided that I was going to add a > second alternator on the vacuum pump pad as backup. But while I was > drawing > up everything on autocad I also did quite a bit of thinking. I have been > a > reader of the Aeroelectric list for the last 4 years. Those that partake > of > that list know that there has been much weeping and nashing of teeth in a > multi-month debate that has been raging about internally regulated versus > externally regulated alternators. > > Several people who bought internally regulated alternators from auto parts > stores (and a few from Van's) have had problems with them and some > multiple > problems. I'd heard a lot about the B&C externally regulated alternators > (modern day Nippon Denso modified for external regulation and balanced to > minimize vibration). I'd also heard that B&C had very few returns on > these > units over a long period of time and people on the list who'd used them > confirmed that premise. So....much as I did NOT want to spend the money > (about three times the price of a NEW alternator from an auto parts > store), > I returned Van's internally regulated unit and bought the B&C 60 amp unit > and regulator. > > I originally left off the backup alternator from my CAD drawings thinking > that I'd add it later and install it after the airplane flies (I've been > working on this RV-6 for 10 years and want to get it in the air). But > after > all the hallaballoo on the aeroelectric list and the talk of how reliable > the B&C alternators are, I gave it some more thought and now keep asking > myself if I need to do the aux alternator at all. Although I plan on > doing > instrument flying (when necessary) I don't expect it to be an > "all-the-time" > thing. This airplane is my traveling machine and stress reliever not an > air > taxi and if the weather is really bad I plan on staying on the ground. I > decided that since, the B&C alternator is so reliable, I have a magneto on > one side, a backup battery inside my Dynon EFIS and my mission is not IFR > all the time....there is no need to install the aux alternator right now > (or > maybe ever). > > Everything is new right now, including the alternator and I don't want to > spend the time and effort to install and wire an aux alternator into my > system right now. And, I'd rather not spend another $1000 for the unit > and > its regulator since I've gone way over budget on this airplane already. > Just > a few thoughts for you to ponder. No I don't work for B&C and, I don't > like > the price on these alternators but, if it turns out to be as reliable as > they say, it will have been worth it (and I shouldn't need to worry about > a > back up for a long time). > > Dean Psiropoulos > RV-6A N197DM > Registering and paying those use taxes, oh boy! > > > -----------------Original message----------------------------- >>From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com> >>Subject: Re: RV-List: All Electric RV ? >> >>None of the above (or below as the case may be). How much truly "in the >>solid soup" IFR flying do you really plan to do? How much soup time >>have you logged in the past 1-2 years? How many of those flights was a >>MUST scenario and not a MIGHT scenario (where you HAD to be somewhere). >>Be honest. >> >>Unless your engine depends on electrons flowing for the fan to keep >>turning (i.e. dual electronic ignition without backup such as LASAR or >>P-Mag), I'm a big proponent of KISS. And that means one battery, one >>HIGH QUALITY alternator, done deal. > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Engine monitor survey
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 14, 2007
I'm trying to put a thing together for the Hotline, similar to what I did for transition training; basically, folks reviewing their choices for engine monitors and, hopefully, both a pro and con perspective. Add it all up and it I think it provides a good companion to an interesting article in Kitplanes this month. I haven't had a heck of a lot of success with the Yahoogroup, so I'm sur the RV list will be better. I've got a series of about 6 questions. If you're in the mood, let me know and I'll send them to you. Email me at bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net. and thanks! -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94972#94972 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 14, 2007
This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was being burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a egregious verdict. Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns out the fire crews did testify. http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 -- 1:23 PM -- 7:54 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: Steve Allison <stevea(at)svpal.org>
Subject: Re: RV-6 static port location?
Kevin Horton wrote: > > I'm communicating with someone who is chasing a static system accuracy > issue on an RV-6. He didn't build the aircraft, and he can't find the > info on where Van recommends putting the pop rivets for the static > ports. I'd appreciate it if an RV-6 builder could either provide a > detailed description of the recommended location, or scan and e-mail > me the sketch that Van provided. From the RV-6 builders manual, Figure 8-15: 1 inch forward of bulkhead F-607 2.5 inches below the longeron Steve RV-6A wiring ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: "David Leonard" <wdleonard(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
You have got to be kidding me. Even if the crash didn't kill him, it still caused the fire that did kill him. He still built the plane that trapped him. He also crashed the plane causing himself to become trapped. How can that only be 15% responsible for his own death??? Sounds more like 90-100% to me. If he was so 'alive and well' why didn't he use his own fire extinguisher to put it out while it was still small? (*(*^^^%$$n lawyers! Dave Leonard On 2/14/07, Brian Meyette wrote: > > > This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts > I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was > being > burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a > different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a > egregious verdict. > Brian > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com > [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins > Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > > > Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns > out > the fire crews did testify. > > http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 > (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391) > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 > > > -- > 1:23 PM > > -- > 7:54 AM > > -- David Leonard Turbo Rotary RV-6 N4VY My websites at: http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/rotaryroster/index.html http://members.aol.com/_ht_a/vp4skydoc/index.html http://leonardiniraq.blogspot.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
Subject: Rv8 Tail Kit for sale
Date: Feb 14, 2007
Sorry, Gang. I forgot to list the price. Ill take $1000. I am in Lexington, Ky Jetjoc ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Altimeter movements on landing roll
Yes, this could be caused by static system position error. But, the aircraft supposedly has Van's standard pop-rivet static ports, so I wonder why this aircraft is different from the others. I have asked him to do a static system leak check, as this is another possible cause. Kevin "David Leonard" wrote: > Sounds like a static port issue (low pressure area around the static port). > > Dave Leonard > > > On 2/14/07, Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > > > I'm communicating with an RV-6 owner who has noted interesting > > altimeter movements as the aircraft slows down on the runway after > > landing. He says that "from touchdown to stop, the alitmeter goes > > down forty feet". > > > > I'm betting the altimeter isn't getting much attention during the > > landing roll, but I would be interested in hearing from anyone who > > has paid attention to what it does. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: RV-6 static port location?
Date: Feb 14, 2007
And on both sides. In case it wasn't obviously known. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Allison > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 9:51 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: RV-6 static port location? > > > Kevin Horton wrote: > > > > I'm communicating with someone who is chasing a static system accuracy > > issue on an RV-6. He didn't build the aircraft, and he can't find the > > info on where Van recommends putting the pop rivets for the static > > ports. I'd appreciate it if an RV-6 builder could either provide a > > detailed description of the recommended location, or scan and e-mail > > me the sketch that Van provided. > > From the RV-6 builders manual, Figure 8-15: > > 1 inch forward of bulkhead F-607 > 2.5 inches below the longeron > > > Steve > RV-6A wiring > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "don wentz" <dasduck(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Duckworks Light Dimensions
Date: Feb 14, 2007
Hi Kyle, As the maker of the Duckworks Landing Lights, I just wanted to pass along that I have and do make any portions of my kits available to those who need an install =91for their own lamp/reflector=92. I can provide the whole kit minus the light, which would give you instructions, templates, lens, hardware, etc., or, any sub-parts. I know that sometimes a guy just wants to use =91something else=92, so I do what I can to minimize that effort for you. In addition, I=92m happy to help you come-up with a mounting solution for your lamp, or at least be a sounding board for your ideas, to assist you. Finally, we do offer 3 versions of the kits, the 55w halogen original, a 100w Round PAR-36 Halogen, and the Round PAR-36 HID/Xenon. Our HID uses the top of the line Phillips Bulb and Ballast in the D1S format. Each of the round lamps are available as upgrades to my (and other) kit installations, and install very easily, using the original mounting holes, in just a few minutes. Just wanted to make sure you all knew about the options and that I am more than happy to help in any way I can. Keep building, it=92s worth it! Don =91The Duck=92 Wentz HYPERLINK "http://www.duckworksaviation.com/"www.duckworksaviation.com RV-6 N790DW 980hrs (completed in 94) _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions I'm looking for a couple of dimensions from the "standard" duckworks landing light kit, and hope someone can help me out. First, what is the overall width of the cutout in the leading edge? Second, what is the overall height of the cutout in the leading edge? (Note, I need the height of the opening in a wing, not the template dimension). Third, I need the height of the aluminum backing plate for the light. You ask why? I'm scouring the web for a cheap HID upgrade that'll fit without too much work. Thanks in advance... Kyle Boatright 2/13/2007 -- 2/13/2007 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 14, 2007
//And how is 15% at fault determined when the crash would not have happened in the first place without pilot error. The best example I can come up with is the chain-of-errors thing that we've always been taught. Just one error won't kill you, but if a chain of them, will. Even breaking one chain would prevent an accident. Back up a little bit in the case and you'll see the answer. One of the reasons the EAA was held liable is because they (1) Held a fly-in and (2) "Invited" Mr. Corbitt in. The "what if" can go on and on. He wouldn't have died if he hadn't crashed. True. He wouldn't have crashed if he hadn't flown in. True. He wouldn't have flown in if he hadn't been "invited." True. He wouldn't have been invited if there hadn't been a fly-in. True. Trying to find where the "chain of events" started... as with any chain... isn't always easy. And in this case, it also wasn't a fact in dispute. He died because his plane crashed. But is that the only reason he died? THAT's the question the jury appeared to have wrestled with and what much of the case was about. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-058#95058 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal responsibility. But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made the assertion of who was to blame. Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal.\ Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:09 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M //And how is 15% at fault determined when the crash would not have happened in the first place without pilot error. The best example I can come up with is the chain-of-errors thing that we've always been taught. Just one error won't kill you, but if a chain of them, will. Even breaking one chain would prevent an accident. Back up a little bit in the case and you'll see the answer. One of the reasons the EAA was held liable is because they (1) Held a fly-in and (2) "Invited" Mr. Corbitt in. The "what if" can go on and on. He wouldn't have died if he hadn't crashed. True. He wouldn't have crashed if he hadn't flown in. True. He wouldn't have flown in if he hadn't been "invited." True. He wouldn't have been invited if there hadn't been a fly-in. True. Trying to find where the "chain of events" started... as with any chain... isn't always easy. And in this case, it also wasn't a fact in dispute. He died because his plane crashed. But is that the only reason he died? THAT's the question the jury appeared to have wrestled with and what much of the case was about. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-058#95058 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Duckworks Light Dimensions
Date: Feb 14, 2007
Now thats customer service! Don was also very flexible and helpful when I was installing my Duckworks lights. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of don wentz Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 12:15 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions Hi Kyle, As the maker of the Duckworks Landing Lights, I just wanted to pass along that I have and do make any portions of my kits available to those who need an install for their own lamp/reflector. I can provide the whole kit minus the light, which would give you instructions, templates, lens, hardware, etc., or, any sub-parts. I know that sometimes a guy just wants to use something else, so I do what I can to minimize that effort for you. In addition, Im happy to help you come-up with a mounting solution for your lamp, or at least be a sounding board for your ideas, to assist you. Finally, we do offer 3 versions of the kits, the 55w halogen original, a 100w Round PAR-36 Halogen, and the Round PAR-36 HID/Xenon. Our HID uses the top of the line Phillips Bulb and Ballast in the D1S format. Each of the round lamps are available as upgrades to my (and other) kit installations, and install very easily, using the original mounting holes, in just a few minutes. Just wanted to make sure you all knew about the options and that I am more than happy to help in any way I can. Keep building, its worth it! Don The Duck Wentz www.duckworksaviation.com <http://www.duckworksaviation.com/> RV-6 N790DW 980hrs (completed in 94) _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Boatright Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: RV-List: Duckworks Light Dimensions I'm looking for a couple of dimensions from the "standard" duckworks landing light kit, and hope someone can help me out. First, what is the overall width of the cutout in the leading edge? Second, what is the overall height of the cutout in the leading edge? (Note, I need the height of the opening in a wing, not the template dimension). Third, I need the height of the aluminum backing plate for the light. You ask why? I'm scouring the web for a cheap HID upgrade that'll fit without too much work. Thanks in advance... Kyle Boatright -- Release Date: 2/13/2007 -- 2/13/2007 -- 7:54 AM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
>True that they invited him, but they did not make him hurry or rish the >pre-flight or taxi to the wrong end of the runway. Nor did they make him >as a low time pilot make the decisions he did. End result is personal >responsibility. >But I know it is different in this case because he would likely say it >was his fault, but it is his wife and her "outstanding lawyer" that made >the assertion of who was to blame. >Sad situation and hope the defense gets a better lawyer on appeal.\ >Dan I will repeat my view that if I die doing something as suicidally bone-headed as this person may have done, I do not want anyone to be sued for my stupidity. Add appropriate legalese crap being of sound mind and body and stuff. Ron Lee N54RL RV-6A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 14, 2007
Subject: Why does my engine back-fire ?
(Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far in flight ... I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? g ________________________________________________________________________________
From: <dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Why does my engine back-fire ?
Date: Feb 14, 2007
We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle body of the carb. We had to send away to get corrected. It is much, much better now and only cracks or pops only occasionally. RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've ever come across.) It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far in flight ... I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? g ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why does my engine back-fire ?
If I'm not mistaken, an intake tube sucking air will also cause this problem. Darrell --- dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote: > We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean > mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. > In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle > body of the carb. We had to send away to get > corrected. It is much, much better now and only > cracks or pops only occasionally. > > RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > > (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've > ever come across.) > > It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even > if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far > in flight ... > > I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture > means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? > > g > > > > > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 14, 2007
n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: > LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > The fact that the lawyer determined that burning to death should be compensated at 1 million a minute is stupid. They claim it took 5 minuted to die so the family gets 5 million. I still contend that the pilot caused his death because of poor piloting skills/ improper preflight/showing off in front of the crowd. God only knows the real reason. What about the 10's 100's maybe thousands of human beings that witnessed a person burn to death because of his own negligence. I didn't see anything in the testimony that made any claim that the pilot was showing off at the time. Nor do I believe the calculation of the money had anything to do with how long it took him to die. I believe it was calculated based on the lost earnings potential. The theory about "he was flying, it's his fault" is an interesting one. But when we get in trouble, a fire, a crash, a mugging... we EXPECT the people we call to respond. Why? When the cops don't show up, we get upset. Why? Maybe we shouldn't have been walking down that street. Or maybe we shouldn't have bought a house that could catch fire. Silly? Of course it is. The fact is that personal responsibility or no personal responsibility, we all have our OWN responsibilities that aren't waived because of someone else's. If your responsibility is to be on a fire crew, you have a responsibility to perform your tasks dutifully. Now maybe they did and maybe they didn't. But that question isn't irrelevant. Beyond that, I think a lot of folks have missed the real point of the litigation. IF the fire crews themselves were deemed NOT liable in this case -- because Washington state law gives the city of Arlington immunity -- then how on earth can that liability then be transferred to the EAA? THAT is the question. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-112#95112 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Why does my engine back-fire ?
Check this link out and see if it helps. Dave http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-fire --- dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote: > We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean > mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. > In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle > body of the carb. We had to send away to get > corrected. It is much, much better now and only > cracks or pops only occasionally. > > RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > > (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've > ever come across.) > > It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even > if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far > in flight ... > > I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture > means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? > > g > > > > > > Cheap talk? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Schaefer" <dwschaefer(at)n142ds.com>
Subject: A&P Recomendation at KRIC
Date: Feb 14, 2007
A friend is looking at buying a spam can in Richmond, VA (don't ask why! ;-) ). Does anyone have a recommendation for a good A&P that can do a pre-buy inspection in the area? Please email me off line. Thank you, David W. Schaefer RV6-A N142DS www.n142ds.com <http://www.n142ds.com/> ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
You need to re-read the article it states the lawyer determined a million a minute was fair, and that was how they determined the amount. No matter how we dice it, and regardless of what the suite was about, I think the amount of the finding was ridiculous. Dan -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 7:01 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M n801bh(at)netzero.com wrote: > LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > The fact that the lawyer determined that burning to death should be compensated at 1 million a minute is stupid. They claim it took 5 minuted to die so the family gets 5 million. I still contend that the pilot caused his death because of poor piloting skills/ improper preflight/showing off in front of the crowd. God only knows the real reason. What about the 10's 100's maybe thousands of human beings that witnessed a person burn to death because of his own negligence. I didn't see anything in the testimony that made any claim that the pilot was showing off at the time. Nor do I believe the calculation of the money had anything to do with how long it took him to die. I believe it was calculated based on the lost earnings potential. The theory about "he was flying, it's his fault" is an interesting one. But when we get in trouble, a fire, a crash, a mugging... we EXPECT the people we call to respond. Why? When the cops don't show up, we get upset. Why? Maybe we shouldn't have been walking down that street. Or maybe we shouldn't have bought a house that could catch fire. Silly? Of course it is. The fact is that personal responsibility or no personal responsibility, we all have our OWN responsibilities that aren't waived because of someone else's. If your responsibility is to be on a fire crew, you have a responsibility to perform your tasks dutifully. Now maybe they did and maybe they didn't. But that question isn't irrelevant. Beyond that, I think a lot of folks have missed the real point of the litigation. IF the fire crews themselves were deemed NOT liable in this case -- because Washington state law gives the city of Arlington immunity -- then how on earth can that liability then be transferred to the EAA? THAT is the question. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-112#95112 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 14, 2007
LloydDR(at)wernerco.com wrote: > You need to re-read the article it states the lawyer determined a > million a minute was fair, and that was how they determined the amount. > I did better. I read the court documents. The time it took for the man to die had nothing to do with how the how the amount was determined. The documents are posted online if you'd like to read them. And while I'm sure the work of the writer in the article mention tried, nothing compares to the piece RVator John Wiegenstein wrote. (http://rvhotline.expercraft.com/articles/2007/eaa_court_motion_result.html) Beyond that, I'm still anxious to find out what changes the EAA has made since the accident at this particular fly-in. Even better, I'll be anxious to hear if anything noticeable changes at Sun n' Fun. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-174#95174 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Date: Feb 14, 2007
In the process of putting together this week's Hotline, I always check to see if any NTSB investigations have been completed on RV-related incidents. Tonight I found this one (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 041110X01799&key=1). It's interesting -- to me -- for a number of reasons: (1) The NTSB report delves deeply into the construction of the nosegear on this particular RV-6A (2) It reinforces why you should pay attention to edge distance (3) It raises some question about the advice Van's gave to a builder who called seeking advice. Apparently the builder has questions about the edge distance on a nose gear component, called Van's, and then -- according to the NTSB -- followed the instructions he was given. The nose gear collapsed, the bird flipped, the pilot died and the NTSB said he was responsible because he flew with a known deficiency. Van's told the NTSB they don't keep a record of what advice they give to an individual builder. It apparently is in the hands of an attorney. Reinforces, though, that when you're building these things, LISTEN to the voice in your head and don't automatically listen to the people who just say "build on" without knowing for sure whether that part really is compromised. Throw the part away. Make it right. -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-189#95189 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 14, 2007
From: Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Perhaps I'm missing something, but I see no discussion in the NTSB report discussing edge distance of the nose gear assembly. All of the edge distance discussion refers to the canopy support structure/roll over structure that apparently failed when the plane ended up on its back. I wonder if this accident is the reason that Van's came out with a redesign of the roll over structure for the -7's (and 6's, I think) last year. Skylor RV-8 QB Under Construction --- Bob Collins wrote: > > > In the process of putting together this week's > Hotline, I always check to see if any NTSB > investigations have been completed on RV-related > incidents. > > Tonight I found this one > (http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id 041110X01799&key=1). > > > It's interesting -- to me -- for a number of > reasons: > > (1) The NTSB report delves deeply into the > construction of the nosegear on this particular > RV-6A > (2) It reinforces why you should pay attention to > edge distance > (3) It raises some question about the advice Van's > gave to a builder who called seeking advice. > > Apparently the builder has questions about the edge > distance on a nose gear component, called Van's, and > then -- according to the NTSB -- followed the > instructions he was given. The nose gear collapsed, > the bird flipped, the pilot died and the NTSB said > he was responsible because he flew with a known > deficiency. > > Van's told the NTSB they don't keep a record of what > advice they give to an individual builder. > > It apparently is in the hands of an attorney. > > Reinforces, though, that when you're building these > things, LISTEN to the voice in your head and don't > automatically listen to the people who just say > "build on" without knowing for sure whether that > part really is compromised. > > Throw the part away. Make it right. > > -------- > Bob Collins > St. Paul, Minn. > RV Builder's Hotline (free!) > http://rvhotline.expercraft.com > > > > > Read this topic online here: > > http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-189#95189 > > > > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Try this.. Find psychologist to discuss the effect the accident has had on you. Explain to him that you don't feel good about flying anymore - and attribute it to the impact of the accident which was caused but the builder. Get him to prescribe that you need to spend some time flying (getting back in the saddle) even through you don't really feel good about it. Then, sue the estate of the crash pilot/builder for the cost of your "treatments". Assuming the "treatments" lasts for years - you're flying for free! Seems to be a good application of the millions awarded. Just kidding - but couldn't help myself. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Bryan Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:02 AM I witnessed this crash and I can tell you it WAS hard on me.. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: Ron Lee <ronlee(at)pcisys.net>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
At 07:15 AM 2/15/2007, you wrote: >This thread is about as relevant to building airplanes as anything we have >discussed for quite some time. Please consider the effect these things >have on our ability to afford and fly airplanes at all. If you or others >can't afford to insure them or fly them then why build them. These >lawsuits are the reason Cessna quit making GA airplanes for so long. It >is a major factor in the cost of a sport plane. I once read and cannot >quote today but the jest was a Cessna 172 includes $70k per unit cost in >liability insurance. If van were faced with anything even close, we would >not be building these fine airplanes. Good point. My concern is what impact will this have on fly-ins? Will smaller ones cease to exist? Will grass-roots fly-ins run by individuals end because of the fear of massive lawsuits if a pilot kills himself? Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 15, 2007
I see on the EAA Web site this morning that Louisiana is starting another series of 10 fly-ins around the state...I think starting next weekend. Looks like a fun time. I would be interested if anyone flying in, who has participated in the previous series, notices any difference. I also assume SnF would be something of a barometer, although it seemed that the level of services in dispute in the Arlington case... did not apply to SnF or Oshkosh... at least that's what I recall reading in the EAA motion. B _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ron Lee Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 9:42 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M At 07:15 AM 2/15/2007, you wrote: This thread is about as relevant to building airplanes as anything we have discussed for quite some time. Please consider the effect these things have on our ability to afford and fly airplanes at all. If you or others can=12t afford to insure them or fly them then why build them. These lawsuits are the reason Cessna quit making GA airplanes for so long. It is a major factor in the cost of a sport plane. I once read and cannot quote today but the jest was a Cessna 172 includes $70k per unit cost in liability insurance. If van were faced with anything even close, we would not be building these fine airplanes. Good point. My concern is what impact will this have on fly-ins? Will smaller ones cease to exist? Will grass-roots fly-ins run by individuals end because of the fear of massive lawsuits if a pilot kills himself? Ron Lee ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Why does my engine back-fire ?
Date: Feb 15, 2007
With highly tuned race engines the situation described is usually a result of unburned fuel in the exhaust . When the throttle is closed quickly the engine (the pump) is being driven externally. In our case is by the windmilling prop. The pump is packing more fuel into the cylinders than is being burned in the cylinders and the excess is suddenly dumped into the hot exhaust causing the small explosion in the exhaust. Could this be the cause? I have not had it happen. Just putting forth a theory. Dale Ensing Gerry, Mine does the same thing. Don at AFP told me that it had something to do with the Vetterman exhaust. I don't really know the explanation but I've asked a few people and none thought it was a big deal. It does kinda freak out the passengers though so I started trying to tell them as I was turning final that it was normal for it pop when I pull the throttle back. I wish somebody would 'splain it to me, so if you get a good explanation, be sure to let the rest of us know. Godspeed, Phil On Feb 14, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Gerry Filby wrote: You description of "close the throttle quickly" and "popping" sounds like what I'm experiencing. The same thing happened when I was flying the factory 7 with Mike Seager. Dan C's did it as he swooped down into the pattern at HAF when he came to seem my project. I'm not worried about it, seems to be common - just curious why it does it. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "L Klingmuller" <l_klingmuller6(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: San Diego Area - Parking - refueling
Date: Feb 15, 2007
In a ten days I plan to fly to San Diego, CA from Denver, CO We need to see people in Carlsbad but then my passenger needs to catch a plane from San Diego Int. to fly to Central America. Which airport would be best? Montgomery, Gillespie, McClellan-Palomar or where?? Which AP is RV friendly, cheap fuel, car rental, taxi from Ap to San Diego Int. etc. ?? Lothar, RV_6A 675hrs, doing conditional inspection. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Al Grajek" <algrajek(at)msn.com>
Subject: Engine Backfires
Date: Feb 15, 2007
I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire. All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting. Al Grajek RV8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Subject: Re: Engine Backfires
Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused having no knowledge whatsoever. If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess fuel coming from, assuming: - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle is open - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is closed (or the engine would be developing power) (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, although I understand its little more than 2 expansion chambers.) g >-----Original Message----- >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire. >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting. >Al Grajek >RV8 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Charles Brame <chasb(at)satx.rr.com>
Subject: All electric RV!
Date: Feb 15, 2007
I agree with all you say. But I do have one suggestion. As I'm sure you know, once the top forward skin is riveted on and the windshield installed on your -6, you will have very limited access to the area behind the panel. If you have any idea of later adding a back up alternator, I would suggest that you install all the wiring for the installation before sealing up the panel. Charlie Brame RV-6A N11CB San Antonio -------------------------------------------------------------------- From: "DEAN PSIROPOULOS" <dean.psiropoulos(at)verizon.net> Subject: RV-List: All electric RV! Gotta agree with Dan here. Last year about this time I was trying to finalize my electrical system and had decided that I was going to add a second alternator on the vacuum pump pad as backup. But while I was drawing up everything on autocad I also did quite a bit of thinking. I have been a reader of the Aeroelectric list for the last 4 years. Those that partake of that list know that there has been much weeping and nashing of teeth in a multi-month debate that has been raging about internally regulated versus externally regulated alternators. Several people who bought internally regulated alternators from auto parts stores (and a few from Van's) have had problems with them and some multiple problems. I'd heard a lot about the B&C externally regulated alternators (modern day Nippon Denso modified for external regulation and balanced to minimize vibration). I'd also heard that B&C had very few returns on these units over a long period of time and people on the list who'd used them confirmed that premise. So....much as I did NOT want to spend the money (about three times the price of a NEW alternator from an auto parts store), I returned Van's internally regulated unit and bought the B&C 60 amp unit and regulator. I originally left off the backup alternator from my CAD drawings thinking that I'd add it later and install it after the airplane flies (I've been working on this RV-6 for 10 years and want to get it in the air). But after all the hallaballoo on the aeroelectric list and the talk of how reliable the B&C alternators are, I gave it some more thought and now keep asking myself if I need to do the aux alternator at all. Although I plan on doing instrument flying (when necessary) I don't expect it to be an "all- the-time" thing. This airplane is my traveling machine and stress reliever not an air taxi and if the weather is really bad I plan on staying on the ground. I decided that since, the B&C alternator is so reliable, I have a magneto on one side, a backup battery inside my Dynon EFIS and my mission is not IFR all the time....there is no need to install the aux alternator right now (or maybe ever). Everything is new right now, including the alternator and I don't want to spend the time and effort to install and wire an aux alternator into my system right now. And, I'd rather not spend another $1000 for the unit and its regulator since I've gone way over budget on this airplane already. Just a few thoughts for you to ponder. No I don't work for B&C and, I don't like the price on these alternators but, if it turns out to be as reliable as they say, it will have been worth it (and I shouldn't need to worry about a back up for a long time). Dean Psiropoulos RV-6A N197DM Registering and paying those use taxes, oh boy! ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Backfires
Date: Feb 15, 2007
"After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the result of several factors. One, when you close the throttle, you have immediately reduced the amount of air available to cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity already in the manifold does not fall off as quickly. That means there is generally some unburned fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel can be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in the exhaust - this is promoted in short exhausts as there are "reversion" waves reflected back from the exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back into the exhaust system. When these two factors combine - "after fire" is a common result. There is generally no damage and nothing to worry about - unless you have a passenger with a weak heart. However, it occurred frequently and prolonged I would check my exhaust valves for cracks. "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is generally when the combustion process occurs in the cylinder before the intake valve is completely closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the intake manifold to ignite - sometimes blowing off components depending on the degree of air/fuel mixture and other factors. This can happened due to misfire due to ignition time set incorrectly or to an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures burn slowly and the process may not be completed if the mixture is very lean by the time the intake valve again opens. This can then ignite the mixture in the intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage. At least that's what I recall about the topic. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused having no knowledge whatsoever. If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess fuel coming from, assuming: - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle is open - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is closed (or the engine would be developing power) (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, although I understand its little more than 2 expansion chambers.) g >-----Original Message----- >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire. >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting. >Al Grajek >RV8 > > > =========== =========== =========== > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: San Diego Area - Parking - refueling
Date: Feb 15, 2007
I was there at Christmas and stayed at Montgomery. It isn't that far from the international airport. Fuel prices were high, but parking was adequate, etc. Other than that, you are probably looking at somewhere outside the area like Ramona. I am not speaking against any other location, just thought Montgomery was OK. Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L Klingmuller Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: RV-List: San Diego Area - Parking - refueling In a ten days I plan to fly to San Diego, CA from Denver, CO We need to see people in Carlsbad but then my passenger needs to catch a plane from San Diego Int. to fly to Central America. Which airport would be best? Montgomery, Gillespie, McClellan-Palomar or where?? Which AP is RV friendly, cheap fuel, car rental, taxi from Ap to San Diego Int. etc. ?? Lothar, RV_6A 675hrs, doing conditional inspection. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Affidavit of Ownership
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Dana, Wanna get away? Just kidding of course, glad to hear you are getting that close Tim _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of wgill10(at)comcast.net Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:03 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Affidavit of Ownership Dana, US identification refers to the "N" number (US registration number) Bill ====== ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Walter" <dale1rv6(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: San Diego Area - Parking - refueling
Date: Feb 15, 2007
I was at Palomar last week, KCRQ. They have transient parking spaces just west of the control tower for $3 per nite. Cheapest gas was at French Valley (F70) only 28 miles at 15 degree radial. Nice but busy field at Corona, (KAJO) 49 miles at 340 degrees, price about $3.40 at the round roof. Controllers at Palomar were friendly, traffic was light most of the time. Dale ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of L Klingmuller Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:34 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: San Diego Area - Parking - refueling In a ten days I plan to fly to San Diego, CA from Denver, CO We need to see people in Carlsbad but then my passenger needs to catch a plane from San Diego Int. to fly to Central America. Which airport would be best? Montgomery, Gillespie, McClellan-Palomar or where?? Which AP is RV friendly, cheap fuel, car rental, taxi from Ap to San Diego Int. etc. ?? Lothar, RV_6A 675hrs, doing conditional inspection. ==================== ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Affidavit of Ownership
smitty(at)smittysrv.com wrote: > > OK. Now I KNOW I'm old. My SSN IS my Pilot License number. You can have your SSN removed from your pilot records by following a link on the FAA web site. They will issue a new plastic certificate with a new number at no charge. I had this done a while back due to privacy concerns and the process only took about two weeks. The only downside I saw is that the date of issuance on your certificate changes to the new date so it looks like you are a new pilot! :-) Sam Buchanan ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: RV-8 for sale
From: "13brv3" <13brv3c(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Greetings, The time has come to move on to a new project, so my RV-8 is officially for sale. The following web page should answer any questions. If not, there's contact info on the page as well. http://www.radrotary.com Cheers, Rusty Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-356#95356 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Phil Birkelbach <phil(at)petrasoft.net>
Subject: Re: Why does my engine back-fire ?
Date: Feb 15, 2007
This seems feasible. Come to think of it, I can't remember hearing any pops while I was practicing power off stalls, so that would support your theory. Would an exhaust system with higher efficiency contribute? That is what I understood Don to be saying. If there was more back pressure then the fuel would be burned up before it exited and wouldn't make as much noise? Just guessing. Phil On Feb 15, 2007, at 10:09 AM, Dale Ensing wrote: > With highly tuned race engines the situation described is usually a > result of unburned fuel in the exhaust . When the throttle is > closed quickly the engine (the pump) is being driven externally. In > our case is by the windmilling prop. The pump is packing more fuel > into the cylinders than is being burned in the cylinders and the > excess is suddenly dumped into the hot exhaust causing the small > explosion in the exhaust. > > Could this be the cause? > > I have not had it happen. Just putting forth a theory. > Dale Ensing > > > Gerry, > > Mine does the same thing. Don at AFP told me that it had something > to do with the Vetterman exhaust. I don't really know the > explanation but I've asked a few people and none thought it was a > big deal. It does kinda freak out the passengers though so I > started trying to tell them as I was turning final that it was > normal for it pop when I pull the throttle back. > > I wish somebody would 'splain it to me, so if you get a good > explanation, be sure to let the rest of us know. > > Godspeed, > > Phil > > On Feb 14, 2007, at 11:51 PM, Gerry Filby wrote: > >> You description of "close the throttle quickly" and "popping" >> sounds like what I'm experiencing. The same thing happened when I >> was flying the factory 7 with Mike Seager. Dan C's did it as he >> swooped down into the pattern at HAF when he came to seem my >> project. I'm not worried about it, seems to be common - just >> curious why it does it. >> > http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List_- > ============================================================ _- > forums.matronics.com_- > =========================================================== > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: scott bilinski <rv8a2001(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: San Diego Area - Parking - refueling
"traffic was light most of the time."=0A=0AHmmm, dont know what day you exp erienced but I know of several occasions where it took at least 15 minutes to get out. CRQ affectionately known as "the lobster trap" you can get in, but not out!=0A=0A =0AScott Bilinski=0ARV-8a=0Acell 858-395-5094=0A=0A=0A =0A________________________________________________________________________ ____________=0ALooking for earth-friendly autos? =0ABrowse Top Cars by "Gre en Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.=0Ahttp://autos.yahoo.com/green_ce nter/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Subject: Re: Engine Backfires
Thanks, that makes sense to me ... now I'm wondering why I experience th e same backfiring when I lean too aggressively looking for the "peak" in cruise flight at altitude. g -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson [mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires "After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the result of several fac tors. One, when you close the throttle, you have immediately reduced the amoun t of air available to cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity al ready in the manifold does not fall off as quickly. That means there is g enerally some unburned fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel ca n be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in the exhaust - this is promoted in short exhausts as there are "reversion" waves reflected b ack from the exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back into th e exhaust system. When these two factors combine - "after fire" is a comm on result. There is generally no damage and nothing to worry about - unle ss you have a passenger with a weak heart. However, it occurred frequentl y and prolonged I would check my exhaust valves for cracks. "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is generally when the co mbustion process occurs in the cylinder before the intake valve is comple tely closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the intake manifold to ig nite - sometimes blowing off components depending on the degree of air/fu el mixture and other factors. This can happened due to misfire due to ign ition time set incorrectly or to an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures bu rn slowly and the process may not be completed if the mixture is very lea n by the time the intake valve again opens. This can then ignite the mixt ure in the intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage. At least that's what I recall about the topic. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From:Gerry Filby To:rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused having no knowledge wha tsoever. If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess fuel coming from, assumi ng: - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle is open - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is closed (or the engine w ould be developing power) (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, although I understand it s little more than 2 expansion chambers.) g >-----Original Message----- >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire. >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting. >Al Grajek >RV8 > > =========== =========== =========== > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronic s.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Subject: Affidavit of Ownership
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Smitty. Request that the FAA change that. They now know that is a no no using your SS number for your license number. The FAA said around last year they would do the change no questions. Jim Nelson ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Backfires
Backfires caused by over leaning is probably caused by the engine missing frequently and the resulting unburned mixture igniting in the exhaust. It may also be due to the fact that the combustion rate at very lean mixtures is so slow that the mixture continues to burn as it leaves the cylinder and enters the exhaust. Skylor RV-8 QB Under Construction --- Gerry Filby wrote: > Thanks, that makes sense to me ... now I'm > wondering why I experience the same backfiring when > I lean too aggressively looking for the "peak" in > cruise flight at altitude. > > g > > -----Original Message----- > From: Ed Anderson [mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:31 AM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > > "After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the > result of several factors. > > One, when you close the throttle, you have > immediately reduced the amount of air available to > cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity > already in the manifold does not fall off as > quickly. That means there is generally some unburned > fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel can > be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in > the exhaust - this is promoted in short exhausts as > there are "reversion" waves reflected back from the > exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back > into the exhaust system. When these two factors > combine - "after fire" is a common result. There is > generally no damage and nothing to worry about - > unless you have a passenger with a weak heart. > However, it occurred frequently and prolonged I > would check my exhaust valves for cracks. > > > > "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is > generally when the combustion process occurs in the > cylinder before the intake valve is completely > closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the > intake manifold to ignite - sometimes blowing off > components depending on the degree of air/fuel > mixture and other factors. This can happened due to > misfire due to ignition time set incorrectly or to > an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures burn slowly > and the process may not be completed if the mixture > is very lean by the time the intake valve again > opens. This can then ignite the mixture in the > intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage. > > At least that's what I recall about the topic. > > Ed > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From:Gerry Filby > To:rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused > having no knowledge whatsoever. > > If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess > fuel coming from, assuming: > > - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle > is open > - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is > closed (or the engine would be developing power) > > (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, > although I understand its little more than 2 > expansion chambers.) > > g > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] > >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > > > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and > AFTERfire. > >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you > pull to idle. All > >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the > RVs is you dont have a > >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the > idle setting. > >Al Grajek > >RV8 > > > > > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums Want to start your own business? http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Backfires
Date: Feb 15, 2007
G, It would take instrumentation to be certain, but I suspect that the cause is similar to closing the throttle. If you have WOT then your manifold pressure is high meaning your engine in ingesting high density air into the cylinders. The piston then compresses the mixture and the plug fires it. However, igniting the mixture with an electrical spark under high pressure is not as easy with a lean mixture as it is with a richer mixture. As a consequence, there is more "misfire" , as you known the leaner the mixture the more misfire occurs until ultimately the engine will not run as the mixture is too lean. At this point no fuel is being burnt in the cylinders but fuel is still flowing into the exhaust. These lean misfires in the cylinder can once again result in unburned fuel getting into the exhaust and being "cooked - off". At least that's my take on it. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 5:54 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires Thanks, that makes sense to me ... now I'm wondering why I experience the same backfiring when I lean too aggressively looking for the "peak" in cruise flight at altitude. g -----Original Message----- From: Ed Anderson [mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:31 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires "After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the result of several factors. One, when you close the throttle, you have immediately reduced the amount of air available to cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity already in the manifold does not fall off as quickly. That means there is generally some unburned fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel can be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in the exhaust - this is promoted in short exhausts as there are "reversion" waves reflected back from the exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back into the exhaust system. When these two factors combine - "after fire" is a common result. There is generally no damage and nothing to worry about - unless you have a passenger with a weak heart. However, it occurred frequently and prolonged I would check my exhaust valves for cracks. "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is generally when the combustion process occurs in the cylinder before the intake valve is completely closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the intake manifold to ignite - sometimes blowing off components depending on the degree of air/fuel mixture and other factors. This can happened due to misfire due to ignition time set incorrectly or to an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures burn slowly and the process may not be completed if the mixture is very lean by the time the intake valve again opens. This can then ignite the mixture in the intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage. At least that's what I recall about the topic. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Gerry Filby To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused having no knowledge whatsoever. If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess fuel coming from, assuming: - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle is open - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is closed (or the engine would be developing power) (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, although I understand its little more than 2 expansion chambers.) g >-----Original Message----- >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire. >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting. >Al Grajek >RV8 > > > =========== =========== =========== > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com get="_blank">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Engine Backfires
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Your exhaust temps are also quite a bit higher when leaned and will re-burn any spent fuel in the exhaust. > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Skylor Piper > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 6:44 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > Backfires caused by over leaning is probably caused by > the engine missing frequently and the resulting > unburned mixture igniting in the exhaust. It may also > be due to the fact that the combustion rate at very > lean mixtures is so slow that the mixture continues to > burn as it leaves the cylinder and enters the exhaust. > > Skylor > RV-8 QB > Under Construction > --- Gerry Filby wrote: > > > Thanks, that makes sense to me ... now I'm > > wondering why I experience the same backfiring when > > I lean too aggressively looking for the "peak" in > > cruise flight at altitude. > > > > g > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Ed Anderson [mailto:eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com] > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 11:31 AM > > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > > > > > > "After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the > > result of several factors. > > > > One, when you close the throttle, you have > > immediately reduced the amount of air available to > > cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity > > already in the manifold does not fall off as > > quickly. That means there is generally some unburned > > fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel can > > be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in > > the exhaust - this is promoted in short exhausts as > > there are "reversion" waves reflected back from the > > exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back > > into the exhaust system. When these two factors > > combine - "after fire" is a common result. There is > > generally no damage and nothing to worry about - > > unless you have a passenger with a weak heart. > > However, it occurred frequently and prolonged I > > would check my exhaust valves for cracks. > > > > > > > > "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is > > generally when the combustion process occurs in the > > cylinder before the intake valve is completely > > closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the > > intake manifold to ignite - sometimes blowing off > > components depending on the degree of air/fuel > > mixture and other factors. This can happened due to > > misfire due to ignition time set incorrectly or to > > an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures burn slowly > > and the process may not be completed if the mixture > > is very lean by the time the intake valve again > > opens. This can then ignite the mixture in the > > intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage. > > > > At least that's what I recall about the topic. > > > > Ed > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From:Gerry Filby > > To:rv-list(at)matronics.com > > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM > > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > > > > Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused > > having no knowledge whatsoever. > > > > If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess > > fuel coming from, assuming: > > > > - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle > > is open > > - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is > > closed (or the engine would be developing power) > > > > (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, > > although I understand its little more than 2 > > expansion chambers.) > > > > g > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] > > >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM > > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > > >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > > > > > > > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and > > AFTERfire. > > >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you > > pull to idle. All > > >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the > > RVs is you dont have a > > >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the > > idle setting. > > >Al Grajek > > >RV8 > > > > > > > > > > > =========== > > =========== > > =========== > > > > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV- > List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV- > Listhref="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums > > > > > Want to start your own business? > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: First flight this weekend hopefully :-)
My aircraft inspection is scheduled for the Saturday and I'm hoping to make my first flight either Sat. or Sun. Whoooo Hooooo!!!!! -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: Skylor Piper <skylor4(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Engine Backfires
Quite a bit higher than what? When Lean of Peak, EGT's are lower than peak. At peak, the exhaust gas temperatures are, of course, higher than anywhere else, and backfire sounds don't occur there (unless something is really wrong). --- Tim Bryan wrote: > > > Your exhaust temps are also quite a bit higher when > leaned and will re-burn > any spent fuel in the exhaust. > Never miss an email again! Yahoo! Toolbar alerts you the instant new Mail arrives. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: Walter Tondu <walter(at)tondu.com>
Subject: Re: First flight this weekend hopefully :-)
On 02/15 8:43, Bobby Hester wrote: > My aircraft inspection is scheduled for the Saturday and I'm hoping to > make my first flight either Sat. or Sun. > Whoooo Hooooo!!!!! Go Bobby GO! Best of luck on your first flight! Happy safe landings. Be sure to get some pics of that big post-first-flight smile. -- Walter Tondu http://www.rv7-a.com - Flying! http://www.evorocket.com - Building ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 15, 2007
From: <gmcjetpilot(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: All electric RV!
Nothing wrong with B&C alternators but consider Plane Power. I agree a second alternator is overkill. You do have a battery right? I agree dual alternators is over kill. If your "worry bucket" is high by all means get a back up standby battery. A B&C alternator is just a ND alternator with the Voltage regulator removed. To read their sales pitch you would think they invented the alternator. Yes they do some balancing and anodize it. That is it. It is still subject to mechanical failure, rectifier (diode) failure. Plane power installs fans that cool in the CCW rotation verses the stock CW automotive fans B&C uses. Also Plane Power uses special brushes. I believe B&C uses again stock brushes. Plus Plane power has extra Over voltage protection. The real concern is the voltage regulator. The B&C voltage regulator is nothing special and many have failed. It is hand made unit and nice, but at $230 its a lot of money. Consider a Transpo V1200 all digital VR with over voltage protection for about $60-$80 retail. Some use a $10 Ford VR. Why? What if your B&C alternator dies in the middle of the weekend, 1000 miles from home? What are you going to do? It is a special unit with no direct replacement. At least with a internally regulated Plane Power or Stock ND from an auto store you can go buy one for $130 and drop it in and go. The plane power units do have an extra OV module device, but it still installs the same as a stock unit. So in a pinch you could replace the Plane Power unit with a stock unit. Cheers George --------------------------------- TV dinner still cooling? Check out "Tonight's Picks" on Yahoo! TV. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ken Cantrell" <kcflyrv(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Why does my engine back-fire ?
Date: Feb 15, 2007
I notice it more when I'm entering the pattern as usual I'm traveling a little faster than I should be. I always figured it was poppin' because the prop was in flat pitch and the excess speed was pushing the prop to a higher rpm than it would otherwise be. At idle the unburned fuel would end up burning or "popping" in the exhaust stack. A sure way to stop it if you're too high and hot is to pull the mixture to cut off and that really slows you down in a hurry if you have a CS prop. Then when you get it slowed down to 80, put the mixture back to rich and you're where you want to be. ...and no more poppin' No one has ever accused me of being any kind of authority on these things but it's just my .02 worth. Ken Cantrell RV-6 O-360 A1A 580 hrs. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Darrell Reiley Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 3:56 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? If I'm not mistaken, an intake tube sucking air will also cause this problem. Darrell --- dwhite17(at)columbus.rr.com wrote: > We had same problem. Potential cause is too lean > mixture, which could indicate an air leak in carb. > In our case, there were some burrs in the throttle > body of the carb. We had to send away to get > corrected. It is much, much better now and only > cracks or pops only occasionally. > > RV-6, Lycoming O-360-A1A. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 4:46 PM > Subject: RV-List: Why does my engine back-fire ? > > > (Not just my engine - just about every RV I've > ever come across.) > > It does it when I pull the throttle to idle, even > if I do it fairly slowly ... and if I lean too far > in flight ... > > I was thinking that idle throttle, or lean mixture > means less fuel - so what's to burn in the exhaust ? > > g > > > > > > Any questions? Get answers on any topic at www.Answers.yahoo.com. Try it now. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: pcowper(at)webtv.net (Pete Cowper)
Date: Feb 15, 2007
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Dave Leonard wrote: (*(*^^^%$$n lawyers! "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've already made up my mind." Pete Cowper RV8 #81139 California Lawyer ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 16, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Engine Backfires
Thanks, Ed. I feel exonerated and "affirmed" for my earlier post in this thread. -Stormy On 2/15/07, Ed Anderson wrote: > > > "After fire" occurring in the exhaust system is the result of several > factors. > > One, when you close the throttle, you have immediately reduced the amount > of air available to cylinders to combust fuel. But the fuel quantity already > in the manifold does not fall off as quickly. That means there is > generally some unburned fuel ending up in the exhaust system. This fuel can > be "cooked off" by the temperatures it encounters in the exhaust - this is > promoted in short exhausts as there are "reversion" waves reflected back > from the exhaust pipe opening which can push some oxygen back into the > exhaust system. When these two factors combine - "after fire" is a common > result. There is generally no damage and nothing to worry about - unless > you have a passenger with a weak heart. However, it occurred frequently and > prolonged I would check my exhaust valves for cracks. > > > "Back firing" (occurring in the intake manifold) is generally when the > combustion process occurs in the cylinder before the intake valve is > completely closed. This may cause air/fuel mixture in the intake manifold > to ignite - sometimes blowing off components depending on the degree of > air/fuel mixture and other factors. This can happened due to misfire due to > ignition time set incorrectly or to an overly lean mixture. Lean mixtures > burn slowly and the process may not be completed if the mixture is very lean > by the time the intake valve again opens. This can then ignite the mixture > in the intake manifold. Back firing can result in damage. > > At least that's what I recall about the topic. > > Ed > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Gerry Filby > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 1:19 PM > Subject: Re: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > Agreed that I am confused, if one can be confused having no knowledge > whatsoever. > > If "afterfire" is the case - where is the excess fuel coming from, assuming: > > - fuel is burned to provide power when the throttle is open > - there is little or no fuel when the throttle is closed (or the engine > would be developing power) > > (BTW I have the muffled exhaust from Vettermans, although I understand its > little more than 2 expansion chambers.) > > g > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Al Grajek [mailto:algrajek(at)msn.com] > >Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2007 09:47 AM > >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > >Subject: RV-List: Engine Backfires > > > > > >I think you are confused between BACKfire and AFTERfire. > >All(or most) of the engines have afterfire when you pull to idle. All > >engines do it. The ony reason you hear it in the RVs is you dont have a > >muffler. It is just excess fuel burning off at the idle setting. > >Al Grajek > >RV8 > > > > > > > =========== > =========== > =========== > > > > > > > > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tracy Crook" <lors01(at)msn.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 16, 2007
Wouldn't matter to me if he was dancing a jig and reciting the Gettysburg address while burning to death. (am I going to hell for that?) People around him did their personal best to save him but he died anyway. If mistakes were made, well too bad, he obviously made the first and primary mistake that caused his death and others should not have to pay for that fact. Tracy Crook ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette<mailto:brianpublic2(at)starband.net> To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2007 10:16 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > This description certainly sounds a lot different from previous accounts I've read. If true that he was alive and talking to people as he was being burned to death, with only a broken leg from the crash, that is quite a different matter and might explain what had seemed to most of us to be a egregious verdict. Brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bob Collins Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2007 5:55 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > Interesting new stuff from Aircraft Maintenance Technology today. Turns out the fire crews did testify. http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 tp://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391> (http://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391 ttp://www.amtonline.com/article/article.jsp?siteSection=1&id=3391>) -------- Bob Collins St. Paul, Minn. RV Builder's Hotline (free!) http://rvhotline.expercraft.com> Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828 atronics.com/viewtopic.php?p=94828#94828> -- 1:23 PM -- 7:54 AM http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List ator?RV-List> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 16, 2007
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
In a message dated 2/16/2007 9:38:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lors01(at)msn.com writes: Wouldn't matter to me if he was dancing a jig and reciting the Gettysburg address while burning to death. (am I going to hell for that?) People around him did their personal best to save him but he died anyway. If mistakes were made, well too bad, he obviously made the first and primary mistake that caused his death and others should not have to pay for that fact. =================================================== I have remained silent on this issue until now, but I have to agree with Tracy's assertion of "any good Samaritan (professional or amateur) doing their level best to help out someone in trouble is absolved of liability". I want people to help others in need, even if they fail to succeed. Stuff happens and you can't always put Humpty Dumpty back together again. This is the sad fact, get over it, but learn from it. Others' assertions that we need to know the minutiae of the case in order to fully understand the nuanced but higher wisdom of a jury acting in a frivolous suit against those who tried to help is nonsense. IMO, the issue should have never come before the court. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 16, 2007
From: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com>
Professionally trained folks are not just people passing by and we expect a level of training, performance, and knowledge from them when responding. I expect that police officer knows how to aim and fire his gun. I expect the paramedic to know the drugs he is using and what their affect will be. I expect that pilot of my airline plane to know how to navigate and use the systems available to him. I hold all of them to a standard that is very different then just someone trying help. To suggest that because the fire department showed up, that is all that they need to do is ridiculous! I cannot believe that I even read that in this group. If the fire department didn't use their training and execute properly for the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it. How can you say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for not using their training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the exact same thing? Pick a side. Everyone is upset at what happened, but the family has a right to ask the questions as to what happened. Hundreds of years ago it was just the workers fault that they stuck their hand into the machines. Shouldn't have had it there in the first place, right? OSHA has made the work place safer and helped many people. That occurred by people questioning the experts. There are examples all over the world around us. Now, I am not suggesting that I agree or disagree with the results, but will say that the idea that experts are excused is a bunch of bologna. They should do it better, thus the expert title. From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vanremog(at)aol.com Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 8:55 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M In a message dated 2/16/2007 9:38:09 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, lors01(at)msn.com writes: Wouldn't matter to me if he was dancing a jig and reciting the Gettysburg address while burning to death. (am I going to hell for that?) People around him did their personal best to save him but he died anyway. If mistakes were made, well too bad, he obviously made the first and primary mistake that caused his death and others should not have to pay for that fact. = I have remained silent on this issue until now, but I have to agree with Tracy's assertion of "any good Samaritan (professional or amateur) doing their level best to help out someone in trouble is absolved of liability". I want people to help others in need, even if they fail to succeed. Stuff happens and you can't always put Humpty Dumpty back together again. This is the sad fact, get over it, but learn from it. Others' assertions that we need to know the minutiae of the case in order to fully understand the nuanced but higher wisdom of a jury acting in a frivolous suit against those who tried to help is nonsense. IMO, the issue should have never come before the court. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 17, 2007
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
In a message dated 2/16/2007 8:16:15 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com writes: Professionally trained folks are not just people passing by and we expect a level of training, performance, and knowledge from them when responding. I expect that police officer knows how to aim and fire his gun. I expect the paramedic to know the drugs he is using and what their affect will be. I ex pect that pilot of my airline plane to know how to navigate and use the systems available to him. I hold all of them to a standard that is very different t hen just someone trying help. To suggest that because the fire department sho wed up, that is all that they need to do is ridiculous! I cannot believe that I even read that in this group. If the fire department didn=99t use their training and execute proper ly for the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it. How can you say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for not using thei r training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the exact same thing? Pick a side. ====== And even professional money managers often lose money. Past performance is not a guarantee of future results, and with the ton of variables out there, it's not always their fault. If it's intentional bad management (such as in the case of Enron) then you may have a point. If the fire squad drove up to the burning plane and brok e out their sticks and marshmallows, that would be the only careless disregar d finding I could agree with. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 17, 2007
From: "Jeffery J. Morgan" <jmorgan(at)compnetconcepts.com>
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From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 17, 2007
The fire fighters were volunteers......correct? Do we hold volunteers to the same standards as professionals? The airpark we live in is protected by a volunteer fire department. While I hope they can do as well as the professionals, I do not expect the same. It was my choice to take that risk. If the fire department didn't use their training and execute properly for the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it. How can you say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for not using their training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the exact same thing? Pick a side. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 17, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
Dale, >From the briefs Bob posted, apparently, one of the reasons for finding against the defendants was the lack of competence on the part of the Rescue Team (i.e. tennis shoes, clothes not at the ready, wrong hose hookup, water instead of foam). The implication was that the EAA was responsible for this less than sterling performance by the Rescue Squad. The question is "what standard is the EAA (or any flyin manager) supposed to hold a Rescue Squad" such that it protects against claims of incompetence? The best available in the local area? The best available anywhere? Is the EAA supposed to make the Volunteer Fire Department run demonstration tests for them to show competence? Is the EAA to require 5 practice drills on the part of fire and rescue squad? And what standard is used to measure competence? Is 45 second response okay, but 44 second is not? The local Volunteer Fire Department is the best available (even if not very good), does that mean the EAA is required to contract with a Hook-n-Ladder fire crew from Washington, Dulles and have them travel 5,000 miles to be at the ready because they are better, or the best available? All of these questions, some silly, some unanswerable, go to the issue of what duty the EAA and Flyin Sponsors had, if any, to the guest flyers beyond just having the local good-guy with some fire equipment available. If the guest pilots had an unspoken, unwritten, unpublished expectation that there would be fire-n-rescue with a high level of competence available, then perhaps future flyin hosts should publish on their web page and fliers: "Note: No fire and no rescue services will be available and none should be expected. If, while attending this flyin, you intend to crash and burn, please arrange for your own fire and rescue services because we have none. If this arrangement is not satisfactory, please stay away and take your crash somewhere else." Is a warning like this stupid? Probably, but then again, perhaps its also prudent. It would certainly have presented the claimants in this litigation with a higher level of proof. Chuck Jensen Dale Ensing wrote..... The fire fighters were volunteers......correct? Do we hold volunteers to the same standards as professionals? The airpark we live in is protected by a volunteer fire department. While I hope they can do as well as the professionals, I do not expect the same. It was my choice to take that risk. If the fire department didn't use their training and execute properly for the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it. How can you say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for not using their training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the exact same thing? Pick a side. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: FASTPILOTRV8(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 17, 2007
Subject: Panel Face Overlay, Paint or Powder Coating?
On my quest for my rebuild of my RV8a panel to all electric plane (OP Technologies) I have another question. Although I have seen thousands of RV, I have not studied the finished panel face. I had a back-engraved overlay on my old panel. I am looking for something that is simpler and can be changed easily. Are builders just painting or using powder coating or another alternative ? Then what are builders using to lettering? How do you hide the screws for the avionics stack (I don't want to rivet one section)? Looking for some great ideas and some failures and any input would be greatly appreciated Dane N838RVRV8a ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Thanks, Chuck. I'm going to use that in my announcements of future fly-ins at my farm. "Note: No fire and no rescue services will be available and none should be > expected. If, while attending this flyin, you intend to crash and burn, > please arrange for your own fire and rescue services because we have none. > If this arrangement is not satisfactory, please stay away and take your > crash somewhere else." ;-) I love it. -Stormy On 2/17/07, Chuck Jensen wrote: > > > Dale, > From the briefs Bob posted, apparently, one of the reasons for finding > against the defendants was the lack of competence on the part of the Rescue > Team (i.e. tennis shoes, clothes not at the ready, wrong hose hookup, water > instead of foam). The implication was that the EAA was responsible for this > less than sterling performance by the Rescue Squad. > > The question is "what standard is the EAA (or any flyin manager) supposed to > hold a Rescue Squad" such that it protects against claims of incompetence? > The best available in the local area? The best available anywhere? Is the > EAA supposed to make the Volunteer Fire Department run demonstration tests > for them to show competence? Is the EAA to require 5 practice drills on the > part of fire and rescue squad? And what standard is used to measure > competence? Is 45 second response okay, but 44 second is not? The local > Volunteer Fire Department is the best available (even if not very good), > does that mean the EAA is required to contract with a Hook-n-Ladder fire > crew from Washington, Dulles and have them travel 5,000 miles to be at the > ready because they are better, or the best available? > > All of these questions, some silly, some unanswerable, go to the issue of > what duty the EAA and Flyin Sponsors had, if any, to the guest flyers beyond > just having the local good-guy with some fire equipment available. If the > guest pilots had an unspoken, unwritten, unpublished expectation that there > would be fire-n-rescue with a high level of competence available, then > perhaps future flyin hosts should publish on their web page and fliers: > > "Note: No fire and no rescue services will be available and none should be > expected. If, while attending this flyin, you intend to crash and burn, > please arrange for your own fire and rescue services because we have none. > If this arrangement is not satisfactory, please stay away and take your > crash somewhere else." > > Is a warning like this stupid? Probably, but then again, perhaps its also > prudent. It would certainly have presented the claimants in this litigation > with a higher level of proof. > > Chuck Jensen > > > Dale Ensing wrote..... > > The fire fighters were volunteers......correct? Do we hold volunteers to the > same standards as professionals? The airpark we live in is protected by a > volunteer fire department. While I hope they can do as well as the > professionals, I do not expect the same. It was my choice to take that > risk. > > > If the fire department didn't use their training and execute properly for > the accident that they responded to, they should be called on it. How can > you say that it is okay for them to not be held responsible for not using > their training and then turn and criticize the pilot for the exact same > thing? Pick a side. > > > href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List > href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Panel Face Overlay, Paint or Powder Coating?
Date: Feb 17, 2007
Dane, I used power coating back in 1997 and have been very please by its resistance to scratches and color fade. However, if you do powered coast be advised the thickness of the coating can "narrow" the diameter of your instrument cut outs. If I were to power coast again, I would enlarge the diameter of the cut-out holes by 1/32". You can file/scrape out the powder coat inside the holes, but best to avoid it if possible. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: FASTPILOTRV8(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: RV-List: Panel Face Overlay, Paint or Powder Coating? On my quest for my rebuild of my RV8a panel to all electric plane (OP Technologies) I have another question. Although I have seen thousands of RV, I have not studied the finished panel face. I had a back-engraved overlay on my old panel. I am looking for something that is simpler and can be changed easily. Are builders just painting or using powder coating or another alternative ? Then what are builders using to lettering? How do you hide the screws for the avionics stack (I don't want to rivet one section)? Looking for some great ideas and some failures and any input would be greatly appreciated Dane N838RV RV8a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Anderson" <eanderson(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Panel Face Overlay, Paint or Powder Coating?
Date: Feb 17, 2007
Errr, need to pay more attention to the choice of words offered by my spell checker{:<(. Regard all words of "power" in below message as "powder." Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: Ed Anderson To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 10:07 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Panel Face Overlay, Paint or Powder Coating? Dane, I used power coating back in 1997 and have been very please by its resistance to scratches and color fade. However, if you do powered coast be advised the thickness of the coating can "narrow" the diameter of your instrument cut outs. If I were to power coast again, I would enlarge the diameter of the cut-out holes by 1/32". You can file/scrape out the powder coat inside the holes, but best to avoid it if possible. Ed ----- Original Message ----- From: FASTPILOTRV8(at)aol.com To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:48 AM Subject: RV-List: Panel Face Overlay, Paint or Powder Coating? On my quest for my rebuild of my RV8a panel to all electric plane (OP Technologies) I have another question. Although I have seen thousands of RV, I have not studied the finished panel face. I had a back-engraved overlay on my old panel. I am looking for something that is simpler and can be changed easily. Are builders just painting or using powder coating or another alternative ? Then what are builders using to lettering? How do you hide the screws for the avionics stack (I don't want to rivet one section)? Looking for some great ideas and some failures and any input would be greatly appreciated Dane N838RV RV8a href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 17, 2007
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
In a message dated 2/17/2007 12:44:05 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net writes: Well, that's a judgment an intelligent person could only make AFTER he/she gets the information. Not before. It's illogical to say that information you don't even have is worthless ================================== Not worthless, just pointless in this case. -GV ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: It's flyable!
I'm checked out and signed off ready to fly, the plane is checked out and signed off ready to fly. Now if I could just get this weather to cooperate...............
http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm bottom of the page! -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 17, 2007
From: Carlos A Hernandez <carlosh@sec-engr.com>
Subject: Re: It's flyable!
Bobby Hester wrote: > > I'm checked out and signed off ready to fly, the plane is checked out > and signed off ready to fly. Now if I could just get this weather to > cooperate............... > > http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm bottom of > the page! > Congrats!! Must have pic's!! Many of them and a video maybe? I'm a long ways away but I'm certainly happy for you! Fly safe! Carlos in AZ RV7A - emp done and saving up money for the wings ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Fw: Look! Up In The Sky!
Date: Feb 17, 2007
From: "Jim Jewell in Kelowna" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Subject: Look! Up In The Sky! ... it's a bird! It's a plane! Yes, by golly, it IS a plane! Announcing the first flights of C-GIIG (Gigi) today, Feburary 17, 2007. Gigi flies straight and true, with just a few small adjustments to do. Many thanks to all our friends for their support and help during the (less than) 10 year process. Only 9 years and 11 months to get her in the air! Also many thanks to Chuck Ross for the test flights and faith in the girl. The matronics lists played a big roll in making this dream a reality. Thanks to you all, Jim and Chris ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2007
From: Gerald Richardson <gerric(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Fw: Look! Up In The Sky!
Congratulations Jim, I'll bet you didn't get any sleep last night. Very rewarding after all those years of thinking, riveting, etc. I still have another year (or so) to go. Maybe we will see you in Medicine Hat one of these days. Gerald Richardson RV-6A C-FGJR -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Jewell Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 23:17 Subject: RV-List: Fw: Look! Up In The Sky! From: "Jim Jewell in Kelowna" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Subject: Look! Up In The Sky! ... it's a bird! It's a plane! Yes, by golly, it IS a plane! Announcing the first flights of C-GIIG (Gigi) today, Feburary 17, 2007. Gigi flies straight and true, with just a few small adjustments to do. Many thanks to all our friends for their support and help during the (less than) 10 year process. Only 9 years and 11 months to get her in the air! Also many thanks to Chuck Ross for the test flights and faith in the girl. The matronics lists played a big roll in making this dream a reality. Thanks to you all, Jim and Chris -- 17:06 -- 17:06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: Fw: Look! Up In The Sky!
Date: Feb 18, 2007
Congratulations Jim!! You will never forget that First Flight!!!! Good looking RV6......Time to ENJOY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tom in Ohio (10G) Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 1:16 AM Subject: RV-List: Fw: Look! Up In The Sky! > > From: "Jim Jewell in Kelowna" <jjewell(at)telus.net> > > Subject: Look! Up In The Sky! > > > ... it's a bird! It's a plane! Yes, by golly, it IS a plane! > > Announcing the first flights of C-GIIG (Gigi) today, Feburary 17, 2007. > > Gigi flies straight and true, with just a few small adjustments to do. > Many > thanks to all our friends for their support and help during the (less > than) > 10 year process. Only 9 years and 11 months to get her in the air! > > Also many thanks to Chuck Ross for the test flights and faith in the girl. > > The matronics lists played a big roll in making this dream a reality. > Thanks to you all, > > > Jim and Chris > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: What pop rivet does Van's static port kit use
Listers, Can somebody tell me what pop rivet Vans includes in their static port kit? It looks like an SB-42-BSLF, but I'm not sure. Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bob Collins" <bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net>
Subject: What pop rivet does Van's static port kit use
Date: Feb 18, 2007
I have it on the inventory as SD-42-BSLF -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Lewis Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 12:17 PM Subject: RV-List: What pop rivet does Van's static port kit use Listers, Can somebody tell me what pop rivet Vans includes in their static port kit? It looks like an SB-42-BSLF, but I'm not sure. Thanks, Tim Lewis -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Center cabin cover
From: "jlfernan" <jlfernan(at)bellsouth.net>
Date: Feb 18, 2007
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This may sound like newbie questions, but lately simple things seem to get complicated. When drilling through the floors stiffners in the the center cabin cover(my instructions say 981, plans say 982, typo?) what is the edge distance for the hole? Is 5/16ths of an inch OK? And the plans say 15/16th's of an inch between the floor skin to the inside surface of the cover. Mine, with the cover sitting on the stiffner is 1", am I just lucky or and am I reading the plans wrong? -------- Jorge Fernandez N214JL Reserved 9A QB Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p-879#95879 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net (lucky)
Subject: pictures of the RV8 Classic Crystal
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Anyone have links to or any pictures of the RV8 scheme Classic Crystal as well as any other yellow trimmed RV8 WWII schemes? thx, lucky
Anyone have links to or any pictures of the RV8 scheme Classic Crystal as well as any other yellow trimmed RV8 WWII schemes?
 
thx,
lucky

      
      
      
________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pictures of the RV8 Classic Crystal
Date: Feb 18, 2007
From: cbrxxdrv(at)aol.com
This link should get you to what you are looking for http://web.mac.com/glpalinkas/iWeb/Personal/KVNC_VAF_FL.html If that does not work go to WWW.vansairforce.net and scroll down to "Florida Wing Does Venice" and follow the links to the pictures. Sal Lakeland FL N898SC (In Paint shop) -----Original Message----- From: luckymacy(at)comcast.net To: RV-8(at)yahoogroups.com; rv-list(at)matronics.com; vansairforce(at)yahoogroups.com Sent: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 8:28 PM Subject: RV-List: pictures of the RV8 Classic Crystal Anyone have links to or any pictures of the RV8 scheme Classic Crystal as well as any other yellow trimmed RV8 WWII schemes? thx, lucky ________________________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 18, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: I flew today!
Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and will fly some more. -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: I flew today!
Date: Feb 18, 2007
Congrats Bobby! As I like to say, Welcome to the "minority." ;-) SL30 -- there's a calibration procedure you have to go through for the SL30 to work with the CDI/resolver properly. Installation manual...page 34... http://rvimg.com/garmin/SL30Nav_Comm_InstallationManual.pdf Safe & fun phase one! )_( Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Hester" <bobbyhester(at)charter.net> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 7:58 PM Subject: RV-List: I flew today! > Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was > great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work > fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working > and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need > to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and > will fly some more. > > -- > Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A website: > http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tom & Cathy Ervin" <tcervin(at)valkyrie.net>
Subject: Re: I flew today!
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Congratulations BOBBY!!!!!!!! Hope to see you at the locale UFO's shortly! Tom in Ohio RV6-A (10G) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bobby Hester" <bobbyhester(at)charter.net> Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:58 PM Subject: RV-List: I flew today! > Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was > great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work > fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working > and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need > to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and > will fly some more. > > -- > Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A website: > http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Subject: Re: What pop rivet does Van's static port kit use
In a message dated 2/18/2007 1:21:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu writes: Listers, Can somebody tell me what pop rivet Vans includes in their static port kit? It looks like an SB-42-BSLF, but I'm not sure. Thanks, Tim Lewis ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Subject: Baffles baffling you ?
... checkout Kitplanes article on engine baffling - very interesting- and surprising - read. g ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: panel finishing
Date: Feb 19, 2007
From: "Frazier, Vincent A" <VFrazier(at)usi.edu>
Another option to finish your panel(and any other flat surface) is to use sign vinyl. There are some wicked patterns available. One that is particularly popular right now is carbon fiber. Many nice woodgrains are available too. Browse through some of the vinyl graphics websites and take a look. If you find one that you like, you can order it yourself or I'd be glad to order it and sell you only as much as you need so you don't waste 9 yards of vinyl. I can always use it elsewhere. You'd want to apply the vinyl after you're done cutting/drilling the panel. Then just install your stuff over it. The vinyls are very durable and will last for 9+ years even outdoors. It should last the life of your plane if you keep it hangared most of the time. Even if the vinyl gets damaged, nasty, or the plaid pattern you chose goes out of style, it is relatively easy to remove by peeling off with a little heat. Then apply some new and your done. No stripping, no paint fuems, easy. Check my website for other graphics. And I sell the world's best performing RV full swivel tailwheels too. Vince Frazier Screaming Eagle Graphics and Accessories, LLC 3965 Caborn Road Mount Vernon, IN 47620 812-464-1839 http://vincesrocket.com/products.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: I flew today!
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Congratulations, Bobby - I know you've been working on this a long time. Best wishes with it. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Bobby Hester Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 10:59 PM Subject: RV-List: I flew today! Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was great, it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work fine the first flight. Second flight the oil temp probe stopped working and I played with the nav side of the SL30 without much luck, but I need to read the book to find out exactly how it works. I'm off tomorrow and will fly some more. -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm -- 5:06 PM -- 4:35 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "David Burton" <d-burton(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Sirius and XM
Date: Feb 19, 2007
After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for Sirius and XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are going to have problems with this since it will remove any competition between satellite radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our equipment and service will be if this goes through. Dave Flying 172/182 Building RV6 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Sirius and XM
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Apparently it is true: http://tinyurl.com/2rdjoj funny, after theyve been denying it for so long, like fer example: http://www.orbitcast.com/archives/sirius-xm-merger-enough-already.html it MAY help me, as I have Sirius subscription & hardware & will need XM for weather in the plane when its done -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of David Burton Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: RV-List: Sirius and XM After a lot of speculation it looks like a deal has been made for Sirius and XM to merge. Somehow I think the Federal regulators are going to have problems with this since it will remove any competition between satellite radio providers. I wonder what the effect on our equipment and service will be if this goes through Dave Flying 172/182 Building RV6 -- 4:35 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Gold" <andygold(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD
Date: Feb 19, 2007
27 Years of the RVator will be available in early April. This year, besides as a book, it will also be available on a fully searchable CD. The book is getting fatter and fatter, and regardless of how much care we take to organize the articles in what we think is the most logical way, there are still many times when certain important pieces of information are not easily found. As a CD, or as an e-Book, you simply search for what you need (for example exhaust systems) and you are directed to every article Van has written on the subject, regardless of whether we put it in Engine Installation chapter, or Powerplant Operation, or Safety Notices, or Options, or wherever. SPECIAL OFFER As we've still got about 100 copies of the 24 Year Book on the shelf, here's an offer while they last. Order a copy of the 24 Year book today from the link below, and besides the book now, we will send you a FREE copy of the 27 Year CD when it becomes available in April. Just write in the special notes section of the shopping cart "27Year CD". Or place the order by phone to 800 780-4115 http://www.buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm Thanks, Andy Gold Builders Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2007
From: bill shook <billshook2000(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Like most of us I can only draw from my own experience. When I go to the race track to race my car with others of like minds...I pay someone for the use of that track and the facilities/services provided there. The services I pay for are defined in documentation and I do very much expect them to be competent, properly equipped and capable of saving me when things go wrong. The article I read (posted here) stated that the EAA had required a certain type of equipment be onsite for this event. Which means EAA members flying in could and should expect that equipment be onsite. That equipment was not there. That ladies and gentlemen ends our discussion on why the EAA is responsible for paying $10.5M. If you MAKE the requirement, and then do not follow it...you have shot yourself in the posterior and nobody can save you. They wrote down the requirement...there just is no way around it. Negligence, pay up. Bill Don't pick lemons. See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Tim Bryan" <n616tb(at)btsapps.com>
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Bill, that isn't so. There was equipment on the field at the time. This occurred just prior to the airport being closed for the airshow. A fire engine was stationed on the west side of the field as it is every day at almost any airshow I have attended. I am not entirely sure why the choice was made to dispatch a truck from somewhere else other than because the accident occurred on the East side of the field across the active runways. The accident did not look survivable and it may have played a contributing factor in decisions made in the heat of the moment. I do not know how they do this. I also could not speak to weather this would have made a difference. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list- > server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of bill shook > Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:43 PM > To: rv-list(at)matronics.com > Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M > > > Like most of us I can only draw from my own experience. When I go to the > race track to > race my car with others of like minds...I pay someone for the use of that > track and the > facilities/services provided there. The services I pay for are defined in > documentation > and I do very much expect them to be competent, properly equipped and > capable of saving > me when things go wrong. The article I read (posted here) stated that the > EAA had > required a certain type of equipment be onsite for this event. Which > means EAA members > flying in could and should expect that equipment be onsite. That > equipment was not > there. > > That ladies and gentlemen ends our discussion on why the EAA is > responsible for paying > $10.5M. If you MAKE the requirement, and then do not follow it...you have > shot yourself > in the posterior and nobody can save you. They wrote down the > requirement...there just > is no way around it. Negligence, pay up. > > Bill > > > > Don't pick lemons. > See all the new 2007 cars at Yahoo! Autos. > http://autos.yahoo.com/new_cars.html > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: panel finishing
From: Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Vincent: Thanks for the tip. It hadnt occurred to me that vinyl was an option for panel finishing and I am now considering going this route. Question: Some of my instruments fit into their corresponding holes from the back of the panel, so that from the front of the panel, there is absolutely no overlapping bezel to hide any imperfections in the hole cut in the panel and any overlying vinyl that would be applied. Maybe its not a big deal, but Im concerned that I may not be able to apply the vinyl over my panel and then cut a hole in it that perfectly matches the hole cut in the underlying panel. Do you have a suggested foolproof technique? I guess the upside is that if blow it, I can easily start over. Related questions: (1) Do you have any recommendations for panel labeling on top of a vinyl covered panel? (2) I dont trust matching colors from my computer screen. I assume suppliers will generally provide samples for this? thanks Erich Weaver ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 19, 2007
From: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net>
Subject: RV-7A N174JL has a new owner...
Just thought I would inform you that my RV-7A, N174JL has a new owner. After posting a recent For Sale ad on the SoCAL and RV-List, it took only hours before I was contacted by Chuck Olsen, USAF Major from Edwards AFB, resident of Tehachapi, CA, (and MANY others) who were interested in the plane. Chuck drove 2.5 hrs to Camarillo prior to the Super Bowl, 4 FEB, inspected the plane, went for a ride, and made me an offer I accepted. Chuck is a Global-Hawk drone pilot, C130 Gunship Navigator at Edwards AFB, first-time aircraft owner, and a great guy! Chuck and I completed an annual inspection this past Saturday, and put N174JL back together. It was Saturday afternoon when the winds had died down, and we planned to take a few laps around the field here at Camarillo and perform a few touch & go's. Wouldn't you know it... the FLAP MOTOR decided it didn't want to work (flaps were extended) and we were grounded! The flap motor had worked flawlessly up until now and had been cycled at least 4+ times during the annual inspection!!! A quick call to Gregg Healy (RV-7A builder at CMA) and he allowed me to go to his hangar early Sunday morning, remove his flap motor in his 'not-yet-flying' RV-7A, then I pulled the flap motor from N174JL, and had the new motor ready to be installed as Chuck was arriving around 0830! Wheeeeewwww.... what a chore! (Thanks Gregg... your new, replacement flap motor is on order from Van's). Chuck and I did a few touch and go's at Oxnard Airport (KOXR) Sunday morning and then returned to CMA to meet his co-pilot Jim who has an RV-6A with a Subaru installed. At approx. 1115, Chuck and Jim departed KCMA in N174JL and she was off to her new home in a hangar at Tehachapi, CA (KTSP). Falcon Insurance required a 3-hour check-out in N174JL for Chuck so Jim was performing that duty after I climbed out of the right seat... N174JL was just one-month short of being 2 years old. First flight was on 3/17/2005 (see http://www.jacklockamy.com/N174JL_First_Flight_Video.wmv). She had 260.3 wonderful hours on the tach and hasn't missed a beat! Great airplane but I am doing LOTS of cross-country flight these days on business and have decided to go into a partnership in a 2003 Cirrus SR20. My new partner also has an RV-3A for local, fun flights but it may soon be for sale to make room for a possible Harmon Rocket project (I still have all my tools and LOVE to build airplanes...). Please welcome Chuck Olsen, his wife Carla, and N174JL when you see them flying in the SoCAL area.... You guys (and gals) have been wonderful and I'll see you all on a ramp around the area soon I'm sure... Jack Lockamy Camarillo, CA N174JL RV-7A SOLD N200GR Cirrus SR20 N633TB RV-3A www.jacklockamy.com jacklockamy(at)verizon.net ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Emrath" <emrath(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: It's flyable!
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Congratulations Bobby, good on ya! Marty ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 19, 2007
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
In a message dated 2/19/2007 1:19:12 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, bcollinsrv7a(at)comcast.net writes: I think one of the distressing elements of society today, frankly, is that we assume people who don't share the same opinion we share, are stupid. ===================================== Not stupid, just misguided, and I forgive you all in advance. All of my forgiveness will never amount to my agreeing with them, however. Much of the argumentation these days surrounds issues such as how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or what is the sound of one hand clapping, when the answers are meaningless. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 20, 2007
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that matter, pilots, were on the jury? ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M
Date: Feb 20, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
For that matter he was a buyer not a builder.... Dan _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Hopperdhh(at)aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:37 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Re: pilot's family awarded $10.5M Speaking of "Jury of his peers" how many aircraft homebuilders or for that matter, pilots, were on the jury? ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD
Date: Feb 20, 2007
What years does this cover, Andy? brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:10 PM Subject: RV-List: 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD 27 Years of the RVator will be available in early April. This year, besides as a book, it will also be available on a fully searchable CD. The book is getting fatter and fatter, and regardless of how much care we take to organize the articles in what we think is the most logical way, there are still many times when certain important pieces of information are not easily found. As a CD, or as an e-Book, you simply search for what you need (for example exhaust systems) and you are directed to every article Van has written on the subject, regardless of whether we put it in Engine Installation chapter, or Powerplant Operation, or Safety Notices, or Options, or wherever. SPECIAL OFFER As we've still got about 100 copies of the 24 Year Book on the shelf, here's an offer while they last. Order a copy of the 24 Year book today from the link below, and besides the book now, we will send you a FREE copy of the 27 Year CD when it becomes available in April. Just write in the special notes section of the shopping cart "27Year CD". Or place the order by phone to 800 780-4115 http://www.buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm Thanks, Andy Gold Builders Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com <http://www.buildersbooks.com> 800 780-4115 -- 5:01 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Andy Gold" <andygold(at)rkymtnhi.com>
Subject: Re: 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD
Date: Feb 20, 2007
The current 24 year book covers 1980-2003 The updated 27 year book will cover 1980-2006 ----- Original Message ----- From: Brian Meyette To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 8:43 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD What years does this cover, Andy? brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of Andy Gold Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 6:10 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RV-List: 27 Years of the RV-ator on searchable CD 27 Years of the RVator will be available in early April. This year, besides as a book, it will also be available on a fully searchable CD. The book is getting fatter and fatter, and regardless of how much care we take to organize the articles in what we think is the most logical way, there are still many times when certain important pieces of information are not easily found. As a CD, or as an e-Book, you simply search for what you need (for example exhaust systems) and you are directed to every article Van has written on the subject, regardless of whether we put it in Engine Installation chapter, or Powerplant Operation, or Safety Notices, or Options, or wherever. SPECIAL OFFER As we've still got about 100 copies of the 24 Year Book on the shelf, here's an offer while they last. Order a copy of the 24 Year book today from the link below, and besides the book now, we will send you a FREE copy of the 27 Year CD when it becomes available in April. Just write in the special notes section of the shopping cart "27Year CD". Or place the order by phone to 800 780-4115 http://www.buildersbooks.com/24_years_of_the_rvator_vans_.htm Thanks, Andy Gold Builders Bookstore www.buildersbooks.com 800 780-4115 - The RV-List Email Forum - ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2007
From: Dave Nellis <truflite(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: panel finishing
The holes where the instruments are mounted from the back can be painted black before applying the vinyl. The hole or imperfections will almost disappear. Dave Nellis --- Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com wrote: > Erich_Weaver(at)URSCorp.com > > > Vincent: > > Thanks for the tip. It hadnt occurred to me that > vinyl was an option for > panel finishing and I am now considering going this > route. Question: Some > of my instruments fit into their corresponding holes > from the back of the > panel, so that from the front of the panel, there is > absolutely no > overlapping bezel to hide any imperfections in the > hole cut in the panel > and any overlying vinyl that would be applied. > Maybe its not a big deal, > but Im concerned that I may not be able to apply the > vinyl over my panel > and then cut a hole in it that perfectly matches the > hole cut in the > underlying panel. Do you have a suggested foolproof > technique? I guess the > upside is that if blow it, I can easily start over. > > Related questions: (1) Do you have any > recommendations for panel labeling > on top of a vinyl covered panel? > (2) I dont trust matching colors from my computer > screen. I assume > suppliers will generally provide samples for this? > > > thanks > > Erich Weaver > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > It's here! Your new message! Get new email alerts with the free Yahoo! Toolbar. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/toolbar/features/mail/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Chuck Weyant" <chuck(at)chuckdirect.com>
Subject: Re: RV-7A N174JL has a new owner...
Date: Feb 20, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: Jack Lockamy To: RV List Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 5:36 PM Subject: RV-List: RV-7A N174JL has a new owner... Just thought I would inform you that my RV-7A, N174JL has a new owner. After posting a recent For Sale ad on the SoCAL and RV-List, it took only hours before I was contacted by Chuck Olsen, USAF Major from Edwards AFB, resident of Tehachapi, CA, (and MANY others) who were interested in the plane. Chuck drove 2.5 hrs to Camarillo prior to the Super Bowl, 4 FEB, inspected the plane, went for a ride, and made me an offer I accepted. Chuck is a Global-Hawk drone pilot, C130 Gunship Navigator at Edwards AFB, first-time aircraft owner, and a great guy! Chuck and I completed an annual inspection this past Saturday, and put N174JL back together. It was Saturday afternoon when the winds had died down, and we planned to take a few laps around the field here at Camarillo and perform a few touch & go's. Wouldn't you know it... the FLAP MOTOR decided it didn't want to work (flaps were extended) and we were grounded! The flap motor had worked flawlessly up until now and had been cycled at least 4+ times during the annual inspection!!! A quick call to Gregg Healy (RV-7A builder at CMA) and he allowed me to go to his hangar early Sunday morning, remove his flap motor in his 'not-yet-flying' RV-7A, then I pulled the flap motor from N174JL, and had the new motor ready to be installed as Chuck was arriving around 0830! Wheeeeewwww.... what a chore! (Thanks Gregg... your new, replacement flap motor is on order from Van's). Chuck and I did a few touch and go's at Oxnard Airport (KOXR) Sunday morning and then returned to CMA to meet his co-pilot Jim who has an RV-6A with a Subaru installed. At approx. 1115, Chuck and Jim departed KCMA in N174JL and she was off to her new home in a hangar at Tehachapi, CA (KTSP). Falcon Insurance required a 3-hour check-out in N174JL for Chuck so Jim was performing that duty after I climbed out of the right seat... N174JL was just one-month short of being 2 years old. First flight was on 3/17/2005 (see http://www.jacklockamy.com/N174JL_First_Flight_Video.wmv). She had 260.3 wonderful hours on the tach and hasn't missed a beat! Great airplane but I am doing LOTS of cross-country flight these days on business and have decided to go into a partnership in a 2003 Cirrus SR20. My new partner also has an RV-3A for local, fun flights but it may soon be for sale to make room for a possible Harmon Rocket project (I still have all my tools and LOVE to build airplanes...). Please welcome Chuck Olsen, his wife Carla, and N174JL when you see them flying in the SoCAL area.... You guys (and gals) have been wonderful and I'll see you all on a ramp around the area soon I'm sure... Jack Lockamy Camarillo, CA N174JL RV-7A SOLD N200GR Cirrus SR20 N633TB RV-3A www.jacklockamy.com jacklockamy(at)verizon.net ------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- 2/20/2007 1:44 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2007
From: Jeff Dowling <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Sliding canopy aft fairing
*Just wondered if anyone has modified there aft fairing to fiberglass. My aluminum fairing doesnt seal at all and Im thinking of notching it, bending each notch to fit the fuse, then glassing over the "teeth" made by notching the original al. Im thinking about weaving a glass strip around each tooth, one on top, the next underneath in an attempt for cohesion. I guess I'll drill a bunch of holes in the teeth as well. Any suggestions? Shemp n915jd 300+ * ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2007
From: "Ralph E. Capen" <recapen(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy aft fairing
One of the guys that was helping me in TX did his completely in fiberglass. I'm gonna do mine the same way. I'll see if I can have him write up some text...... -----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Dowling <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> >Sent: Feb 20, 2007 3:46 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Sliding canopy aft fairing > > >*Just wondered if anyone has modified there aft fairing to fiberglass. > >My aluminum fairing doesnt seal at all and Im thinking of notching it, >bending each notch to fit the fuse, then glassing over the "teeth" >made by notching the original al. > >Im thinking about weaving a glass strip around each tooth, one on top, >the next underneath in an attempt for cohesion. I guess I'll drill >a bunch of holes in the teeth as well. > >Any suggestions? > >Shemp >n915jd >300+ >* > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jim Jewell" <jjewell(at)telus.net>
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy aft fairing
Date: Feb 20, 2007
Hi Jeff, A sheet metal shrinker/stretcher worked for me. have you looked into that as an alternative? Jim in Kelowna - C-GIIG ..(Gigi) has now flown 1 and 1/0 hr ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Dowling" <shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: RV-List: Sliding canopy aft fairing > > *Just wondered if anyone has modified there aft fairing to fiberglass. > > My aluminum fairing doesnt seal at all and Im thinking of notching it, > bending each notch to fit the fuse, then glassing over the "teeth" > made by notching the original al. > Im thinking about weaving a glass strip around each tooth, one on top, the > next underneath in an attempt for cohesion. I guess I'll drill > a bunch of holes in the teeth as well. > > Any suggestions? > > Shemp > n915jd > 300+ > * > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Harker" <dpharker(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
Date: Feb 20, 2007
For those of you that have one impulse coupled magneto and a single electronic ignition. Which one are you using on engine startup and what is your startup procedure? Thanks Don Harker Gurnee IL 90% done 50% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
Date: Feb 20, 2007
I have a Jeff Rose (AKA Electroair) ignition and an impulse coupled mag. My starting procedure is to turn on the fuel pump, pump the throttle once, then take care of all of the buckling in and pre-start stuff while the fuel (hopefully) evaporates into the intake system. Then, I turn the EI and the mag to "hot" and hit the start switch. My airplane is usually hooked up to a battery tender which maintains a good charge on the battery. This is important because low system voltage (like experienced when starting with a less than fully charged battery) *may* cause the EI to lose track of crank position and fire at a bad time, causing kickback. Some folks turn the mag on, hit the starter, and then energize the EI once the starter has the prop rotating. This is an alternate way to avoid the low voltage/kickback scenario with the EI. In the winter, I typically preheat with a sump heater for anywhere from 15 minutes to several hours, depending on if I set the heater on a timer or if I plugged it in when I arrived at the airfield. Hope this helps. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Harker To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: RV-List: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup For those of you that have one impulse coupled magneto and a single electronic ignition. Which one are you using on engine startup and what is your startup procedure? Thanks Don Harker Gurnee IL 90% done 50% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2007
From: G McNutt <gmcnutt(at)shaw.ca>
Subject: Re: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
0-320 Lycoming and I turn both Magneto and Electronic Ignition on after engine has turned three blades on the starter - almost instant start with no kick back in 450 hrs. George in Langley BC Donald Harker wrote: > > For those of you that have one impulse coupled magneto and a > single electronic ignition. Which one are you using on engine startup > and what is your startup procedure? > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dan Checkoway" <dan(at)rvproject.com>
Subject: Re: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
Date: Feb 20, 2007
Lightspeed Plasma II + Slick 4371 impulse-coupled mag on my IO-360-A1B6. Both ON at startup. )_( Dan RV-7 N714D (1207 hours) www.rvproject.com www.weathermeister.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Harker To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 3:44 PM Subject: RV-List: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup For those of you that have one impulse coupled magneto and a single electronic ignition. Which one are you using on engine startup and what is your startup procedure? Thanks Don Harker Gurnee IL 90% done 50% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 20, 2007
From: Tim Lewis <Tim_Lewis(at)msm.umr.edu>
Subject: Re: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
I have an impulse coupled mag and a Lightspeed on my RV-6A. I start with both. 850+ hours, no problems. I understand there are compatibility issues between the Lightspeed and the use of the Flyweight starter (which I have on my RV-10 - under construction). As I understand it, the problem is apparently caused by the huge engine-start current surge into the Flyweight causing the bus voltage to drop, causing the Lighspeed to fire at the wrong time. So, for my RV-10, I'll have a small (2-3 Ah) battery just for the the Lightspeed, fed from the main bus via a diode. This'll isolate the Lightspeed from plunging main bus voltage. Tim -- Tim Lewis -- HEF (Manassas, VA) RV-6A N47TD -- 850 hrs RV-10 #40059 under construction Donald Harker wrote: > > For those of you that have one impulse coupled magneto and a > single electronic ignition. Which one are you using on engine startup > and what is your startup procedure? > > > > Thanks > > Don Harker > > Gurnee IL > > 90% done 50% to go > > > > * > > > * ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Gerry Filby" <gerf(at)gerf.com>
Date: Feb 21, 2007
Subject: Re: Sliding canopy aft fairing
Jeff, I fabricated my fairing completely out of fiberglass - for similar reason s. I didn't do the best job of shaping the canopy frame and I couldn't ge t the aluminum to fit nicely. The fiberglass came out just fine. If its any help - I used transparent duct tape (more flexible than the re gular kind) to bridge the gap between the turtle deck and the canopy to f orm the "mold". I used lots of short strips side by side. I then applied mold releasing wax and started laying up. Overall it came out pretty well . I can get you some pics if its helpful. g >-----Original Message----- >From: Jeff Dowling [mailto:shempdowling2(at)earthlink.net] >Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 12:46 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: RV-List: Sliding canopy aft fairing > > >*Just wondered if anyone has modified there aft fairing to fiberglass. > >My aluminum fairing doesnt seal at all and Im thinking of notching it, >bending each notch to fit the fuse, then glassing over the "teeth" >made by notching the original al. > >Im thinking about weaving a glass strip around each tooth, one on top, >the next underneath in an attempt for cohesion. I guess I'll drill >a bunch of holes in the teeth as well. > >Any suggestions? > >Shemp >n915jd >300+ >* > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Jerry Calvert" <rv6(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
Date: Feb 20, 2007
Impulse Mag on left, Jeff Rose on right. Start on left and as soon as engine starts, which is usually 2-3 blades, turn on the Jeff Rose. The 0-320 always cranks right up. Jerry Calvert Edmond Ok N296JC RV6 ----- Original Message ----- From: Donald Harker To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2007 5:44 PM Subject: RV-List: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup For those of you that have one impulse coupled magneto and a single electronic ignition. Which one are you using on engine startup and what is your startup procedure? Thanks Don Harker Gurnee IL 90% done 50% to go ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2007
From: rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Prop Spinner Pattern
I'm getting to the point where I need to cut out the spinner for my Hartzell C2YK-BF/F7666A-4 Prop. I've never done a cutout before, although this is my second RV-8 (My RV-8A spinner was cut out by Craig Catto) and I'm hoping that someone has a spinner pattern online or one they can mail me. The archives showed two folks who provided patterns - Bowhay and Ludvig. Of course, Bohay is deceased and I got a message that Ludvig's on line pattern is no longer available. So, anybody out there that can provide this info? It would be greatly appreciated. Walt Shipley RV-8A flying RV-8 still workin' P.S. The prop is a constant speed ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Donald Harker" <dpharker(at)worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Impulse coupler mag and electronic ignition at startup
Date: Feb 21, 2007
Thanks to all who replied. Great Help. Don Harker ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Prop Spinner Pattern
Date: Feb 21, 2007
Walt, I have a Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF C/S prop with Van's spinner. Have the spinner off the prop at this time and can take a picture or draw a pattern for you. Maybe best would be if I copy the cut out pattern on to paper and fax a copy to you. If that works for you, send me a fax nbr to my email address densing(at)carolina.rr.com Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: "rveighta" <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:07 AM Subject: RV-List: Prop Spinner Pattern > > > I'm getting to the point where I need to cut out the spinner for my > Hartzell > C2YK-BF/F7666A-4 Prop. I've never done a cutout before, although this is > my second RV-8 (My RV-8A spinner was cut out by Craig Catto) and I'm > hoping that someone has a spinner pattern online or one they can mail me. > > The archives showed two folks who provided patterns - Bowhay and Ludvig. > Of course, Bohay is deceased and I got a message that Ludvig's on line > pattern is no longer available. > > So, anybody out there that can provide this info? It would be greatly > appreciated. > > Walt Shipley > RV-8A flying RV-8 still workin' > > P.S. The prop is a constant speed > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: How long does it take to sell RVs
Date: Feb 21, 2007
After posting a recent For Sale ad on the SoCAL and RV-List, it took only hours before I was contacted. A recent post made to the list indicates that these things sell pretty fast. What has been some others experience selling or buying an RV? I am looking to sell mine in the near future and would like to get an idea of what to expect. Scott _________________________________________________________________ The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: XM Sirius
I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I did manage to get an > undergraduate degree in Economics a few decades ago. > Then you'd be just the man to explain how the government interferes with the free market for electricians and plumbers in a way that compares at all with medicine and utilities. Are you referring to Hillary's focus group that's plotting to socialize plumbing and require all employers to purchase single-payor septic tank insurance for their employees? Yeah, I knew that was it. Gotta run; Ira Magaziner 's on the other line... wants to know how to prevent Tax-free House Wiring Savings Accounts from getting through congress ;-) -Stormy {I'm really _not_ following you here, Charlie. >>Plumbers? Electricians? No and no. The law? No, with profanity withheld.<< ...but it's not the first time.} ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 21, 2007
From: Charlie England <ceengland(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: XM Sirius
Bill Boyd wrote: > > I didn't stay in a Holiday Inn last night, but I did manage to get an >> undergraduate degree in Economics a few decades ago. >> > Then you'd be just the man to explain how the government interferes > with the free market for electricians and plumbers in a way that > compares at all with medicine and utilities. Are you referring to > Hillary's focus group that's plotting to socialize plumbing and > require all employers to purchase single-payor septic tank insurance > for their employees? Yeah, I knew that was it. > > Gotta run; Ira Magaziner 's on the other line... wants to know how to > prevent Tax-free House Wiring Savings Accounts from getting through > congress ;-) > > -Stormy > > {I'm really _not_ following you here, Charlie. > >>> Plumbers? Electricians? No and no. The law? No, with profanity >>> withheld.<< > > ...but it's not the first time.} Just about every form of certification & licensing quickly evolves from 'protecting the public' to protecting the current practitioners from competition. I'm certainly not endorsing Socialism but I'm no fan of government supported oligopoly either. Charlie ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Richard Sipp" <rsipp(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: How long does it take to sell RVs
Date: Feb 21, 2007
James: IMHO if you price it realistically, post some nice pictures, it will be sold in a few days. Dick Sipp ----- Original Message ----- From: "james frierson" <tn3639(at)hotmail.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 4:57 PM Subject: RV-List: How long does it take to sell RVs > > After posting a recent For Sale ad on the SoCAL and RV-List, it took only > hours before I was contacted. > > A recent post made to the list indicates that these things sell pretty > fast. What has been some others experience selling or buying an RV? I am > looking to sell mine in the near future and would like to get an idea of > what to expect. > > Scott > > _________________________________________________________________ > The average US Credit Score is 675. The cost to see yours: $0 by Experian. > http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=660600&bcd=EMAILFOOTERAVERAGE > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: rveighta <rveighta(at)earthlink.net>
Subject: Re: Prop Spinner Pattern
Dale, yes, I would appreciate your sending me a copy of the cut out pattern. My fax is inop right now but you can send it to my nextdoor neighbor, Mac McCartan, at (423) 257-6647. Thanks a ton........ Walt Shipley -----Original Message----- >From: Dale Ensing <densing(at)carolina.rr.com> >Sent: Feb 21, 2007 1:08 PM >To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >Subject: Re: RV-List: Prop Spinner Pattern > > >Walt, >I have a Hartzell HC-C2YK-1BF C/S prop with Van's spinner. Have the spinner >off the prop at this time and can take a picture or draw a pattern for you. >Maybe best would be if I copy the cut out pattern on to paper and fax a >copy to you. If that works for you, send me a fax nbr to my email address >densing(at)carolina.rr.com >Dale Ensing > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "rveighta" <rveighta(at)earthlink.net> >To: >Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 9:07 AM >Subject: RV-List: Prop Spinner Pattern > > >> >> >> I'm getting to the point where I need to cut out the spinner for my >> Hartzell >> C2YK-BF/F7666A-4 Prop. I've never done a cutout before, although this is >> my second RV-8 (My RV-8A spinner was cut out by Craig Catto) and I'm >> hoping that someone has a spinner pattern online or one they can mail me. >> >> The archives showed two folks who provided patterns - Bowhay and Ludvig. >> Of course, Bohay is deceased and I got a message that Ludvig's on line >> pattern is no longer available. >> >> So, anybody out there that can provide this info? It would be greatly >> appreciated. >> >> Walt Shipley >> RV-8A flying RV-8 still workin' >> >> P.S. The prop is a constant speed >> >> >> > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: "Chuck Jensen" <cjensen(at)dts9000.com>
What's the current concensus on starters? BNC or SkyTec HTI (hy torque in-line, or some such)? I'm not interested in the PM Skytec but was trying to choose between the non-PM (permanent magnet) starters for an IO-540? Chuck Jensen ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
The B&C is a Hitachi starter with a different nose piece and pinion gear, so its easy to get parts for it locally if you ever have to rebuild it. It is simpler mechanically compared to the inline sky-tec. The inline sky-tec is a good starter, a friend of mine has one and you never see him do what I call the 'sky-tec dance' where the starter has to be bumped to get over the first compression stroke, as is common with the PM starter-equipped airplanes. I am a proponent of not having a seperate starter contactor, and using only the starter solenoid to engage the starter like every car made in the last 40 years. Yes you do have a fat hot wire all the time but so what, if its supported correctly it is unlikely to ever fail. Less resistance this way, lighter, and less complicated. Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 2/22/07, Chuck Jensen wrote: > > > What's the current concensus on starters? BNC or SkyTec HTI (hy torque > in-line, or some such)? I'm not interested in the PM Skytec but was > trying to choose between the non-PM (permanent magnet) starters for an > IO-540? > > Chuck Jensen > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Austin-area airport recommendations?
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: "Lawson, Michael" <mikel(at)ssd.fsi.com>
In the future, I may be doing some long cross-country flights to the north Austin area. Does anyone have specific airport recommendations for the best overall experience? I would be tying-down or hangaring the plane overnight. The airports closest to my destination that I'm considering are: 1. GTU - Georgetown: Looks good, but seems really too busy whenever I'm driving my car nearby. 2. 5R3 - Lago Vista / Rusty Allen: Looks like a nice quiet airport, but maybe there are some unknown gotchas? 3. 3R9 - Lakeway: I understand they can be cranky with fees and operating hour restrictions? Thanks for any advice. Mike Lawson RV-8A 81825 - fuselage on jig (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
Recommend B&C. SkyTec never worked for me. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: Darrell Reiley <lifeofreiley2003(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Austin-area airport recommendations?
Michael, I would use the Taylor Airport. Close in to North Austin and Round Rock area, less traffic auto and plane wise, RV's are on the field, small town atmosphere, very... very good AVgas fuel prices and Excellent BBQ!! Darrell --- "Lawson, Michael" wrote: > > > > In the future, I may be doing some long > cross-country flights to the > north Austin area. Does anyone have specific > airport recommendations > for the best overall experience? I would be > tying-down or hangaring the > plane overnight. > > The airports closest to my destination that I'm > considering are: > > 1. GTU - Georgetown: Looks good, but seems really > too busy whenever I'm > driving my car nearby. > 2. 5R3 - Lago Vista / Rusty Allen: Looks like a > nice quiet airport, > but maybe there are some unknown gotchas? > 3. 3R9 - Lakeway: I understand they can be cranky > with fees and > operating hour restrictions? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Mike Lawson > RV-8A 81825 - fuselage on jig (still) > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Darrell Reiley RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "J. R. Dial" <jrdial@hal-pc.org>
Subject: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
Date: Feb 22, 2007
I have a very poor customer service problem going with Sky-Tec right now and would definitely go with B&C. If you want the details contact me off list or phone. 512-914-6028. If you want a Sky-Tec type starter contact Air-Tec and get the same thing at half the price. www.airtecinc.us Dick Dial N89DD -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bob Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:39 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Starter: BNC or SkyTec Recommend B&C. SkyTec never worked for me. Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 22, 2007
From: Matt Reeves <mattreeves(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
My vote is for SkyTec. I had a problem a few years ago with my starter. Rich, the manager, FedEx'd me a new starter the next day - at his expense!!!! And I had no idea how old my starter was as it was on my engine when I bought it. Service like that gets my vote for life. I won't ever look anywhere else, even if I saved weight. New starter is lighter and more reliable than any starter I've ever had in 25 years! SkyTec - you can't go wrong! Matt Chuck Jensen wrote: What's the current concensus on starters? BNC or SkyTec HTI (hy torque in-line, or some such)? I'm not interested in the PM Skytec but was trying to choose between the non-PM (permanent magnet) starters for an IO-540? Chuck Jensen --------------------------------- ________________________________________________________________________________
From: PittsS1(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 2007
Subject: Re: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
just a note ... i have had complete B n C electrical systems on 3 different airplanes. they all have been trouble free. the support bill bainbridge provides is outstanding. i vote for B n C mike


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Austin-area airport recommendations?
Date: Feb 22, 2007
Try Spicewood, 88R. It is close to both Lakeway and Lago Vista. Also, there are several RV's there. The airport is daylight use only though. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lawson, Michael Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 2:26 PM Subject: RV-List: Austin-area airport recommendations? In the future, I may be doing some long cross-country flights to the north Austin area. Does anyone have specific airport recommendations for the best overall experience? I would be tying-down or hangaring the plane overnight. The airports closest to my destination that I'm considering are: 1. GTU - Georgetown: Looks good, but seems really too busy whenever I'm driving my car nearby. 2. 5R3 - Lago Vista / Rusty Allen: Looks like a nice quiet airport, but maybe there are some unknown gotchas? 3. 3R9 - Lakeway: I understand they can be cranky with fees and operating hour restrictions? Thanks for any advice. Mike Lawson RV-8A 81825 - fuselage on jig (still) ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Hopperdhh(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 22, 2007
Subject: Re: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
Will the B&C inline clear the FAB air duct on my RV-7A with 200 HP injected angle valve engine? I have the Skytec PM starter now and it has workied fine for over 2 years now except for a whump sometimes. You guys got me worried. Dan Hopper RV-7A ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "RV6 Flyer" <rv6_flyer(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
Date: Feb 23, 2007
I have been using SkyTec PM starter for the past 10 years. Replaced one solenoid in that time. Service with them has been great. 1,980.4 hobbs hours when I put the airplane away on Saturday. I have a B & C alternator and voltage regulator. Service has been excellent. Both SkyTec and B & C make good starters. You should get good service from both. An old wise man once told me "You only get what you pay for." IMHO. You will not go wrong with either of the two starters on any of the Lycoming engines that RVs use. Gary A. Sobek "My Sanity" RV-6 N157GS O-320 Hartzell, 1,980 + Flying Hours So. CA, USA _________________________________________________________________ Play Flexicon: the crossword game that feeds your brain. PLAY now for FREE. http://zone.msn.com/en/flexicon/default.htm?icid=flexicon_hmtagline ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
From: "shirleyh" <shirleyh(at)oceanbroadband.net>
Date: Feb 23, 2007
My Superior O360 was delivered with a Skytech lightweight starter. At around 10 hours of operation, I noticed chipped teeth on the ring gear. A couple of starts later it jammed completely. Replaced the ring gear, had engineer check everything... next two starts chipped the new ring gear. Installed borrowed B&C and returned original starter to Skytech. Now over 50 hours, and 7 months later, no contact from Skytech and the old B&C has never missed a beat. YMMV Shirley in Perth, Western Australia RV6 Read this topic online here: http://forums.matronics.com/viewtopic.php?p'824#96824 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Starter: BNC or SkyTec
Date: Feb 23, 2007
On 22 Feb 2007, at 21:16, Hopperdhh(at)aol.com wrote: > Will the B&C inline clear the FAB air duct on my RV-7A with 200 HP > injected angle valve engine? > The B&C starter does not clear the induction air duct for the front mounted servo. It may be possible modify the fibreglas duct to fit around the B&C starter. Kevin Horton RV-8 (finishing kit) Ottawa, Canada http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Eric Parlow" <ericparlow(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: Weather? for- i39, Richmond Madison Flyin Feb. 24th. is ON
Date: Feb 23, 2007
What's the weather look like there? Who's going? Hasn't been much e-traffic this on The Kickoff ............... Last 3 years were great! ERic-- RV-10 N104EP ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 23, 2007
From: Paul Besing <pbesing(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Austin-area airport recommendations?
I regularly fly out of GTU. It's really not that busy. Yes, they are getting a control tower, but everyone who flies there are pretty safe. A flight school, and some charter planes now and then. Gas prices are ok, no food on the field. No tie down fees. Hangars are a premium there, but I never really looked into an of the RV's that may be in the area. Otherwise, if it's near your destination, it's a good airport. Crossing runways, all in great condition, etc. Paul Besing Darrell Reiley wrote: Michael, I would use the Taylor Airport. Close in to North Austin and Round Rock area, less traffic auto and plane wise, RV's are on the field, small town atmosphere, very... very good AVgas fuel prices and Excellent BBQ!! Darrell --- "Lawson, Michael" wrote: > > > > In the future, I may be doing some long > cross-country flights to the > north Austin area. Does anyone have specific > airport recommendations > for the best overall experience? I would be > tying-down or hangaring the > plane overnight. > > The airports closest to my destination that I'm > considering are: > > 1. GTU - Georgetown: Looks good, but seems really > too busy whenever I'm > driving my car nearby. > 2. 5R3 - Lago Vista / Rusty Allen: Looks like a > nice quiet airport, > but maybe there are some unknown gotchas? > 3. 3R9 - Lakeway: I understand they can be cranky > with fees and > operating hour restrictions? > > Thanks for any advice. > > Mike Lawson > RV-8A 81825 - fuselage on jig (still) > > > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > Web Forums! > > > > > Darrell Reiley RV7A QB Slider "Reiley Rocket" N622DR Reserved N469RV Reserved CenTex_RV_Aircraft-owner(at)yahoogroups.com --------------------------------- Don't be flakey. Get Yahoo! Mail for Mobile and always stay connected to friends. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Fasching" <n1cxo320(at)salidaco.com>
Subject: How Did You...?
Date: Feb 24, 2007
Re: replacement fuel tanks from Evan Johnson After 12-years or so and finally finding loose slosh in my tanks I decided to have Johnson make me two of them rather than go through that mess again. Here's my question: I can slip on the replacement tanks (they have 1/4" oversized skins) and accurately determine where the underlying nutplates are located and drill a pilot hole. Then removing the tanks I can dimple the aft row of holes but the forward ones are what right now have me puzzled. The forward row of holes need to be machine countersunk, not dimpled. I can see that the cutter head's pilot "shaft" in my microstop countersink tool will 'bottom out' in the nutplate before the cutter has finished the proper cut, or even got a good start. How did you folks get around this? I wondered if using the shop grinder to 'shorten' the pilot shaft a bit might work...other than that nothing has yet occured to me. (Fortunately it will be some time before I get the tanks so I have lots of time to figure this out.) I know others have faced this, and rather than reinventing the wheel so to speak I am asking for guidance. Thanks for any help. John ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Kyle Boatright" <kboatright1(at)comcast.net>
Subject: Re: How Did You...?
Date: Feb 24, 2007
A couple of thoughts: 1) Have a buddy with a lathe turn down the pilot on the countersink to fit the inside diameter of the nutplates. The problem in this scenario is that you still need to drill the holes for the screws, and the nutplates will be in your way during that step too. 2) I really think you'll want to mark the tank on the airframe, but drill the holes and countersink 'em off the airplane. Going this route, after you marked the holes, you could attach the tank to a spacer shaped like the spar, then drill through the tank skin into the simulated spar. At that point, the hole in the false spar would serve as the guide for your piloted countersink. I'm sure you're putting lots of thought into this. Once you decide how to approach the problem, it is probably worth talking it over with another experienced builder or a machinist before you start cutting aluminum. KB ----- Original Message ----- From: John Fasching To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Saturday, February 24, 2007 4:46 PM Subject: RV-List: How Did You...? Re: replacement fuel tanks from Evan Johnson After 12-years or so and finally finding loose slosh in my tanks I decided to have Johnson make me two of them rather than go through that mess again. Here's my question: I can slip on the replacement tanks (they have 1/4" oversized skins) and accurately determine where the underlying nutplates are located and drill a pilot hole. Then removing the tanks I can dimple the aft row of holes but the forward ones are what right now have me puzzled. The forward row of holes need to be machine countersunk, not dimpled. I can see that the cutter head's pilot "shaft" in my microstop countersink tool will 'bottom out' in the nutplate before the cutter has finished the proper cut, or even got a good start. How did you folks get around this? I wondered if using the shop grinder to 'shorten' the pilot shaft a bit might work...other than that nothing has yet occured to me. (Fortunately it will be some time before I get the tanks so I have lots of time to figure this out.) I know others have faced this, and rather than reinventing the wheel so to speak I am asking for guidance. Thanks for any help. John ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 24, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: low oil temps
My oil temps are running low and I am putting alum. tape on the cooler to get them up. I'm thinking about ordering the oil cooler vent from Vans. What you you guys doing? -- Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Fiveonepw(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 24, 2007
Subject: Re: low oil temps
Over the years there has been much discussion here regarding oil cooler blocking to elevate oil temps in cold climes. It seems that most attemps to block off a baffle-mounted cooler at the rear of the cooler exhibited marginal improvements at best, and those that covered the front of the cooler much more effective. I suspect that the reason is that if the rear of the cooler is blocked, there is still enough cold air swirling around at the front of the cooler to pretty effectively cool it. As some evidence (FWIW!) my firewall-mounted cooler has a butterfly valve upstream from the cooler operated by a cable that allows me to regulate airflow through the cooler and allows me to accurately "set" whatever oil temp I desire, regardless of OAT. See: http://websites.expercraft.com/n51pw/index.php?q=log_entry&log_id=5001 >From the info on Vans web catalog website, it appears this shutter would block quite a bit of airflow even when open, but I have no evidence of this. I'm curious if it works well fully open in hot climates. It DOES say it mounts between the baffle and cooler, so it may prove effective. I'd suspect that before it was offered by Vans is had been pretty well qualified. See: http://www.vansaircraft.com/cgi-bin/catalog.cgi?ident=1172376538-200-201&brows e=engines&product=oil_shutter I'd suggest some aluminum duct tape or cover plate taped in place over most if not all of the cooler front face as an experiment- easy to do and might be perfectly serviceable prior to onset of Kentucy summer- fer shure much less co$t & hassle... Mark ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "JOHN COLLIER" <johncollier5110(at)msn.com>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 25, 2007
Guys and Gals, I'm starting to plan out my avionics. I'm leaning toward an all glass panel - IFR legal. I'm considering a couple of Dynon's with backup batteries. I've brainstormed (to the best of my abilities) all the possible ways I could get myself into trouble. With backup batteries in each dynon I'm "relatively" safe from a total electrical failure. Also, if I lose one EFIS...I'll switch to the other dynon for flight data. Looking for some advice and recommendations... what I'm I overlooking or not considering? Thanks John _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2007
From: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: low oil temps
Hi Where did you get the 3 inch butterfly valve and do you have a part number? Thanks in advance Matthew M. Jurotich e-mail mail to: phone : 301-286-5919 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 2007
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Door
Over the years there has been much discussion here regarding oil cooler blocking to elevate oil temps in cold climes. It seems that most attempts to block off a baffle-mounted cooler at the rear of the cooler exhibited marginal improvements at best, and those that covered the front of the cooler much more effective. ======================================== You know I've heard this argument for years and it just isn't so. The attached photo shows one that works quite well and is simple to execute. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Door
Date: Feb 25, 2007
I would like to know your secret. My oil cooler door is exactly like yours and I detect very little oil temperature rise when the door is closed. Dale Ensing You know I've heard this argument for years and it just isn't so. The attached photo shows one that works quite well and is simple to execute. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Door
Date: Feb 25, 2007
On 25 Feb 2007, at 12:00, Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > Over the years there has been much discussion here regarding oil > cooler blocking to elevate oil temps in cold climes. It seems that > most attempts to block off a baffle-mounted cooler at the rear of > the cooler exhibited marginal improvements at best, and those that > covered the front of the cooler much more effective. > > ======================================== > > You know I've heard this argument for years and it just isn't so. > The attached photo shows one that works quite well and is simple to > execute. > GV - What is the coldest surface temperature you've flown in and found that you could keep the oil temperatures up? Some parts of the world do get quite a bit colder than California. Kevin Horton Ottawa, Canada ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
Date: Feb 25, 2007
Vans has recently offered a nose gear leg to cowl intersection fairing. I purchased one for my RV 7A and am left scratching my head as to how this should be installed such that I can still remove the lower cowl. Has anyone on the list installed one of these, or alternatively have they built one from scratch? How did you attach this fairing? Garry Stout Odessa FL ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Vanremog(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 25, 2007
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Door
In a message dated 2/25/2007 10:19:07 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, khorton01(at)rogers.com writes: > Over the years there has been much discussion here regarding oil > cooler blocking to elevate oil temps in cold climes. It seems that > most attempts to block off a baffle-mounted cooler at the rear of > the cooler exhibited marginal improvements at best, and those that > covered the front of the cooler much more effective. > > ======================================== > > You know I've heard this argument for years and it just isn't so. > The attached photo shows one that works quite well and is simple to > execute. > GV - What is the coldest surface temperature you've flown in and found that you could keep the oil temperatures up? Some parts of the world do get quite a bit colder than California. ============================== Kevin- What you say is true, however my point is that a rear mounted door can effectively raise your oil temp about 50 deg F from open to closed. The coolest air I've flown in at altitude is about -20 deg C. GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA)


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AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Subject: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
Date: Feb 25, 2007
> Vans has recently offered a nose gear leg to cowl intersection fairing. > I purchased one for my RV 7A and am left scratching my head as to how > this should be installed such that I can still remove the lower cowl. > Has anyone on the list installed one of these, or alternatively have Mine is attached with three smallish screws on each side along the main body and one at the aft end. --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2007
From: bertrv6(at)highstream.net
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Door
Quoting Dale Ensing : > I would like to know your secret. My oil cooler door is exactly like yours > and I detect very little oil temperature rise when the door is closed. > Dale Ensing > > You know I've heard this argument for years and it just isn't so. The > attached photo shows one that works quite well and is simple to execute. > Dale: Common... you logic alone destroys that argument no? Example, my Carb heat, does not show any drop in rpms, when checking mags before take off, etc...but I know that when that little door is closed, the inside temperature of that Carb. area, is going to got up./ That is law of PHysics... My 2 cents.. Happy flying Bert rv6a ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: low oil temps
Date: Feb 25, 2007
I have just finished installing Van's oil cooler vent on the front of my baffle mounted cooler but haven't flown with it yet because of bad weather. I am only slightly concerned about the amount on airflow that will be blocked in the fully open position in hot weather. I have been flying in hot weather with a plate on the back of the cooler with eight 5/8 in. holes in it and have never seen over 180 deg. F with that set up even with OATs over 115 F., so I am optimistic that I won't have a problem. A heads up for those planning to install one of these vents. I discovered that fins on the front side of my cooler protrude a little ahead of the mounting flanges. When I first tightened the mounting bolts the vent mechanism locked up because of this and could not be moved. The simple fix in my case was to put .032 spacer strips between the cooler mounting flanges and the vent. FWIW. -- Harry Crosby RV-6 N16CX, O-360, 312 hours -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net> > > My oil temps are running low and I am putting alum. tape on the cooler > to get them up. I'm thinking about ordering the oil cooler vent from > Vans. What you you guys doing? > > -- > Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY > Visit my RV7A website: > http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Matthew Brandes" <matthew(at)n523rv.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
Date: Feb 25, 2007
What's the quality of the nose gear fairing? I ordered the main gear intersection fairings and they were pretty darn poor quality IMHO. Matthew RV-9A :: N523RV www.n523rv.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Garry" <garrys(at)tampabay.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
Date: Feb 25, 2007
----- Original Message ----- From: Matthew Brandes What's the quality of the nose gear fairing? I ordered the main gear intersection fairings and they were pretty darn poor quality IMHO. Vans is great with metal, but not so good with fiberglass parts. I'm sure they "outsource" the fiberglass parts, but the quality control isn't good. In many cases I think you're better off making your own molds and doing your own layups rather than use the Vans parts. Garry Stout ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2007
From: "Bob J." <rocketbob(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Oil Cooler Door
Looks like you have some foam rubber on the door and sealed up around it pretty well... what's the coldest temp you've flown in and what was your oil temp? Regards, Bob Japundza RV-6 flying F1 under const. On 2/25/07, Vanremog(at)aol.com wrote: > > Over the years there has been much discussion here regarding oil cooler > blocking to elevate oil temps in cold climes. It seems that most attempts > to block off a baffle-mounted cooler at the rear of the cooler exhibited > marginal improvements at best, and those that covered the front of the > cooler much more effective. > > ======================================== > > You know I've heard this argument for years and it just isn't so. The > attached photo shows one that works quite well and is simple to execute. > > > GV (RV-6A N1GV O-360-A1A, C/S, Flying 833hrs, Silicon Valley, CA) > > > ------------------------------ > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free > from AOL at *AOL.com*. > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 25, 2007
From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net>
Subject: Re: low oil temps
Does it just bolt between the cooler and the baffle or was there rivets to drill out? I'm about to order one. Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY Visit my RV7A website: http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/MyFlyingRV7A.htm HCRV6(at)comcast.net wrote: > >I have just finished installing Van's oil cooler vent on the front of my baffle mounted cooler but haven't flown with it yet because of bad weather. I am only slightly concerned about the amount on airflow that will be blocked in the fully open position in hot weather. I have been flying in hot weather with a plate on the back of the cooler with eight 5/8 in. holes in it and have never seen over 180 deg. F with that set up even with OATs over 115 F., so I am optimistic that I won't have a problem. > >A heads up for those planning to install one of these vents. I discovered that fins on the front side of my cooler protrude a little ahead of the mounting flanges. When I first tightened the mounting bolts the vent mechanism locked up because of this and could not be moved. The simple fix in my case was to put .032 spacer strips between the cooler mounting flanges and the vent. FWIW. > >-- >Harry Crosby >RV-6 N16CX, O-360, 312 hours > > -------------- Original message ---------------------- >From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net> > > >> >>My oil temps are running low and I am putting alum. tape on the cooler >>to get them up. I'm thinking about ordering the oil cooler vent from >>Vans. What you you guys doing? >> >>-- >>Surfing the web with my laptop from Hopkinsville, KY >>Visit my RV7A website: >>http://webpages.charter.net/bobbyhester/FinishingUpPg3.htm >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 26, 2007
I have an all glass IFR panel in my RV-10 and love it. You can see it at: http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=panelinstalled1bl4.jpg It is a three screen Grand Rapids system with weather overlay and I love it. The center glass screen is a sport model with it's own AHRS for backup. As far as backup batteries as long as you can identify a battery or alternator failure they are somewhat unnecessary. The amount of amps drawn by a single EFIS system and an autopilot is so small that you can do an IFR let down on your main battery with little problems. I went ahead and put an SD-8 backup on my engine as a backup to the alternator just to be on the safe side however. Best regards, Russ Daves N710RV - Flying RV-10 N65RV - RV-6A sold ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "rtitsworth" <rtitsworth(at)mindspring.com>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 26, 2007
A thought/scenario. If you had some sort of electrical fire (smoke, serious smell, etc), and were unsure of the source, and wanted to shutdown the alternator(s) and master(s), what would be left? Seems that having a small, local, dedicated stby battery attached to an attitude instrument would be helpful (necessary) in IMC - especially if you plan on flying high enough that it takes several minutes (or longer) to descent to safety. Assuming of course that stby instrument is not the original smoke problem. My .02 Rick _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves . As far as backup batteries as long as you can identify a battery or alternator failure they are somewhat unnecessary. The amount of amps drawn by a single EFIS system and an autopilot is so small that you can do an IFR let down on your main battery with little problems. ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 26, 2007
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFR I have an all glass IFR panel in my RV-10 and love it. You can see it at: http://img139.imageshack.us/my.php?image=panelinstalled1bl4.jpg It is a three screen Grand Rapids system with weather overlay and I love it. The center glass screen is a sport model with it's own AHRS for backup. As far as backup batteries as long as you can identify a battery or alternator failure they are somewhat unnecessary. The amount of amps drawn by a single EFIS system and an autopilot is so small that you can do an IFR let down on your main battery with little problems. I went ahead and put an SD-8 backup on my engine as a backup to the alternator just to be on the safe side however. Best regards, Russ Daves N710RV - Flying RV-10 N65RV - RV-6A sold ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2007
Subject: Glass for IFR
From: James H Nelson <rv9jim(at)juno.com>
Hi Bruce, That is what the turn coordinator / wing leveler from TT is for! :-))) Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 26, 2007
OK, I looked again at your panel picture and darn, I just can't see that TT TC. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of James H Nelson Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 9:15 AM Subject: RV-List: Glass for IFR Hi Bruce, That is what the turn coordinator / wing leveler from TT is for! :-))) Jim ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 26, 2007
I went with multiple brands, on the idea that any hardware or software problems with one brand would not show up in the second brand. I chose Blue Mountain as primary and Grand Rapids as secondary. I also later ended up getting a Dynon as third, instead of a turn coordinator. Whether this turns out to be better than, say, a dual screen, dual AHRS GRT with TruTrak A/P remains to be discovered. See avionics pages for details brian http://brian76.mystarband.net/RV-7Ahome.htm -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of JOHN COLLIER Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 6:17 AM Subject: RV-List: Glass for IFR Guys and Gals, I'm starting to plan out my avionics. I'm leaning toward an all glass panel - IFR legal. I'm considering a couple of Dynon's with backup batteries. I've brainstormed (to the best of my abilities) all the possible ways I could get myself into trouble. With backup batteries in each dynon I'm "relatively" safe from a total electrical failure. Also, if I lose one EFIS...I'll switch to the other dynon for flight data. Looking for some advice and recommendations... what I'm I overlooking or not considering? Thanks John _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more....then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 -- 3:16 PM -- 3:16 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 26, 2007
This thought, as well as the previous one from Rick Gray, are, IMHO, a good reason for a third display. My thinking was that by not buying a turn coordinator, 1/2 of a Dynon is already paid for. Its small and self-contained. And it has its own internal battery, so you can shut down all else, and it will still work. brian -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com]On Behalf Of rtitsworth Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 8:14 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR A thought/scenario If you had some sort of electrical fire (smoke, serious smell, etc), and were unsure of the source, and wanted to shutdown the alternator(s) and master(s), what would be left? Seems that having a small, local, dedicated stby battery attached to an attitude instrument would be helpful (necessary) in IMC especially if you plan on flying high enough that it takes several minutes (or longer) to descent to safety. Assuming of course that stby instrument is not the original smoke problem. My .02 Rick _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves As far as backup batteries as long as you can identify a battery or alternator failure they are somewhat unnecessary. The amount of amps drawn by a single EFIS system and an autopilot is so small that you can do an IFR let down on your main battery with little problems. -- 3:16 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
From: HCRV6(at)comcast.net
Subject: Re: low oil temps
Date: Feb 26, 2007
________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2007
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
My high quality Bob Snedaker (Fairings-etc.) upper nose gear intersection fairing is held in place by 2 #6 screws. The nutplates are attached to bits of aluminum attached to the lower cowl. The fairing sits in a recess of built-up filler producing a smooth transition with the lower cowl. To remove the lower cowl, I just remove the 2 screws holding the fairing in place and let the fairing slide down and out of the way on the leg fairing. http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9435/uppernosegearlegfairingxc6.jpg Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Charles Rowbotham" <crowbotham(at)hotmail.com>
Subject: I flew today!
Date: Feb 26, 2007
Bobby, CONGRATULATIONS and WELL DONE !! Chuck & Dave Rowbotham RV-8A >From: Bobby Hester <bobbyhester(at)charter.net> >Reply-To: rv-list(at)matronics.com >To: RV-List >Subject: RV-List: I flew today! >Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2007 21:58:42 -0600 > >Well I finally did it! About 3pm today I got to fly my plane. It was great, >it flew great, it performed great and everything seemed to work fine the >first flight. _________________________________________________________________ Find a local pizza place, movie theater, and more.then map the best route! http://maps.live.com/?icid=hmtag1&FORM=MGAC01 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Lance Sorensen <lancej(at)charter.net>
Subject: cooling fan
Date: Feb 26, 2007
I have a new Ameri-King 5 port avionics cooling fan for sale. I paid $225 and will sell for $125. I decided not to use it because I have only one radio in my RV9. Lance Sorensen Selah, WA ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 26, 2007
From: "Jack Lockamy" <jacklockamy(at)verizon.net>
Subject: Outstanding RV-3A for sale...
Click on link below for specs, photos and more... www.jacklockamy.com/RV3A_N633TB_For_Sale.html ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Dale Ensing" <densing(at)carolina.rr.com>
Subject: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Rick, Your nose gear intersection fairing appears to fit the gear leg fairing much better then mine. On mine, the intersection fairing opening (Fairings-etc) is wider than the gear leg fairing (Van's). Did you do anything to make this a better fit? Dale Ensing ----- Original Message ----- From: Rick Galati To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Monday, February 26, 2007 3:52 PM Subject: RV-List: Re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing My high quality Bob Snedaker (Fairings-etc.) upper nose gear intersection fairing is held in place by 2 #6 screws. The nutplates are attached to bits of aluminum attached to the lower cowl. The fairing sits in a recess of built-up filler producing a smooth transition with the lower cowl. To remove the lower cowl, I just remove the 2 screws holding the fairing in place and let the fairing slide down and out of the way on the leg fairing. http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/9435/uppernosegearlegfairingxc6.jpg Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: Rick Galati <rick6a(at)yahoo.com>
Subject: re: re: Nose Gear Intersection Leg Fairing
Dale, The intersection fairing is wider than the gear leg fairing. I would suppose it is designed that way to avoid certain chaffing as the nose gear flexes quite a bit fore and aft depending upon the varying weight and load conditions imposed upon it. Rick Galati RV-6A "Darla" Rick, Your nose gear intersection fairing appears to fit the gear leg fairing much better then mine. On mine, the intersection fairing opening (Fairings-etc) is wider than the gear leg fairing (Van's). Did you do anything to make this a better fit? Dale Ensing ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Russell Daves" <dav1111(at)cox.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Guys. We the uninitiated, need to know why something is scary or why something is cool. Thanks. John Jessen RV-10 emp _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 7:33 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
Why is triple redundancy scary? You would also have the virtual panel in a hand held GPS as a 4th backup. Just how far do you want to take it? You can spend as much or as little as you want. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Bruce Gray wrote: > Now that's scary! If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot. It would have already been on since entering IMC. With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on teaching autopilot operation. Sam Buchanan =========================== > > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid > IMC > and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the > > other > says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS > and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. > > Russ Daves > N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process burning out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as the backup? Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and that won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus loosing all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The only thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems if you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes, IMC, in turblance?) Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right side up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the ground before something more serious happens? Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on it. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an electrical fire? Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Bruce Gray wrote: > Now that's scary! If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot. It would have already been on since entering IMC. With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on teaching autopilot operation. Sam Buchanan =========================== > > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid > IMC > and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the > > other > says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS > and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. > > Russ Daves > N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
From: David Maib <dmaib(at)mac.com>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
I would make an emergency descent and land ASAP. Glass or steam gauge. I will have at least once source of attitude reference that is completely independent of the airplane electrical system. It will not be vacuum. David Maib 40559 QB wings On Feb 27, 2007, at 11:49 AM, Bruce Gray wrote: I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an electrical fire? Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sam Buchanan Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:29 PM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Bruce Gray wrote: > Now that's scary! If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot. It would have already been on since entering IMC. With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on teaching autopilot operation. Sam Buchanan =========================== > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- > > Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid > IMC > and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning > right and the > > other > says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS > and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. > > Russ Daves > N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
On 2/27/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all > available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an > electrical fire? >> Bruce > www.glasair.org I'd radio my final instructions to my next of kin: get a mean lawyer and sue the ever-loving stuffin's out of the companies that manufactured the fuses and wire in the plane, because that simply cannot occur unless _they_ made a _big_ mistake. Actually, I'd roll over and go back to sleep, knowing I was dreaming, since electrical fires don't happen in properly designed and built cockpits, for the reason given above. But I might worry a little that, once asleep again, I'd return to dreaming about "dark and stormy night" scenarios. It's more likely I'd have dreams about vacuum system failures, because they are much more likely. Put another way, Bruce, I think if your question was posed on the AeroElectric list, you'd eventually hear that your time could be better spent worrying about a prop bolt failure than about the disastrous failure of a properly-designed and built electrical system in an OBAM aircraft, given the statistical likelihood of each. I believe Bob N. is right about that. You are welcome to differ, but "please bring data." -Stormy who has "no problem" with triple-redundancy; it's good in avionics and it's good in DC power distribution :-) Drink the KoolAid, Bruce ;-) Resistance is futile. Actually, it's volts/amperes, but that's not important right now... ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
"Russell Daves" wrote: > Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid > IMC > and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the > other > says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? > > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. > If you are counting on this plan to work, you might want to see how well your autopilot handles when you engage it during an unusual attitude. Maybe it'll do OK, but I suspect it won't do so well from anything more than minor unusual attitudes. If your autopilot isn't up to the task, it is better to find that out on a nice blue sky day than to make this discovery after you end up in an unusual attitude due to an EFIS that has lost its way. Kevin Horton ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Bruce, these are good points, but we do have all electric GA IFR aircraft being built. I believe the Columbia is one such, with full redundancy. Perhaps many builders are not including the full redundancy, and that is something to consider. But, I think it's fair to say that GA manufacturers are trying hard to get vacuum out of their lexicon. From their website: Redundant Electrical Systems - Other modern aircraft advertise being "all-electric", however the dual electrical systems on Columbia aircraft are fully-redundant. The critical difference between dual and redundant is that many aircraft with dual electrical systems have a lesser back-up electric system that cannot operate all standard systems. Consequently, the pilot is forced to make critical decisions to shed power, pull breakers and/or run a partial panel. The second electrical system on Columbia aircraft is a fully redundant system equal in every way to the other system. Thus either electrical system on a Columbia aircraft can start the aircraft and run all standard systems independent of the other electrical system. Dual 60 amp alternators, dual 15 amp hour batteries, dual busses and dual wiring harnesses ensure that an electrical emergency will not force the pilot to shed power, pull breakers, turn off critical standard systems or fly a partial panel in the event of an electrical emergency. Safety by Design - Not by Default. _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:46 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process burning out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as the backup? Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and that won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus loosing all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The only thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems if you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes, IMC, in turblance?) Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right side up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the ground before something more serious happens? Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on it. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
The way you respond to this is that my engine is electrically dependant so I can not kill the master, but I do have redundant busses and I can kill the avionics buss. My dynon is battery powered, the 496 is battery powered, and so is the portable Icom radio. So I can still stay up right, navigate, and communicate. The engine is on the e-buss and so is the prop controller, and will last more than 1 hour on this battery, which can be parallel, prior in the circuit to the avionics master, with the other battery to extend the flight if necassary. Other than that we get into sky is falling routine and if you are that paranoid you should not be flying single engine IFR in the first place. IMHO Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:46 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process burning out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as the backup? Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and that won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus loosing all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The only thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems if you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes, IMC, in turblance?) Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right side up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the ground before something more serious happens? Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on it. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. c om/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: Matt Jurotich <mjurotich(at)hst.nasa.gov>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR
I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet. Matthew M. Jurotich e-mail mail to: phone : 301-286-5919 ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR
Matt, you know that won't replace gyro's, right? So, where are you taking this - compass, ball and airspeed? On 2/27/07, Matt Jurotich wrote: > > I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the > ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet. > > Matthew M. Jurotich > > e-mail mail to: > phone : 301-286-5919 > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Brian Meyette" <brianpublic2(at)starband.net>
Subject: volume/pressure question
Date: Feb 27, 2007
I know there are a lot of smart engineers out there, so I am hoping someone can help me with a calculation that is beyond my knowledge. BACKGROUND: My supercharged Eggenfellner STi engine starts and idles at a too-high value (1500 rpm) after I connected the supercharger plumbing to the intake manifold. It used to start at 1300, then drop back to 1000 after a couple minutes, then drop to 750 after it got warmed up. With the supercharger hooked up, and the wastegate open, it starts at 1500, then drops to 1300, then it kind of fluctuates slowly between 1100 and 1280 awhile, then eventually (the one time I ran it that long) back to 750. Id really rather it didnt start at such a high idle. Details & pics in my Feb engine page http://brian76.mystarband.net/engineFeb07.htm Id like to try to find out in advance how much overpressure I will have at idle if I go to the not insignificant trouble of removing the supercharger plumbing, cutting off the valve adapter, and welding on a larger valve adapter. THE PROBLEM: I am generating X amount of air volume in the supercharger ducting. That volume being vented through a wastegate hole in the ducting is causing a 7 psi pressure in the ducting, in front of the throttle valve. If I change to a hole, what will the pressure be for that same volume of air being generated? What would the pressure be if I changed to a 1 hole? I suspect its more than just a simple matter of comparing the area of the holes and multiplying that comparative ratio times the 7 psi (which of course I can do myself). If that was true, a hole with 10 times the area would still be holding back enough air for there to be 0.7 psi in the duct, which I find hard to believe. I suspect its not a linear relationship, but maybe it is. I hope someone who knows about these things can help illuminate me. Thanks, brian -- 2:56 PM ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: Sam Buchanan <sbuc(at)hiwaay.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Bruce Gray wrote: > > I think the FAA emphasis is on reducing pilot workload and using all > available tools to do so. What would you do in your airplane if you had an > electrical fire? > > Bruce > www.glasair.org This is a different question than the one you first posed. You first asked "if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life?" In my opinion the replies about letting the autopilot break the tie are valid. But you have now raised a different, unrelated question concerning an electrical fire. Granted, ANY fire while airborne is potentially deadly and one of our worse fears. But, with good wiring architecture the odds of an electrical fire are very low, probably much lower than the odds I will wad up the plane in a landing accident. What does concern me greatly, however, is how many pilots think they can hand fly their RVs in the crud on partial panel (airspeed, altimeter, turn coordinator) while being stressed out with an inflight emergency. I think the chances of surviving that scenario are very low but the odds can be greatly improved by providing redundant, independent electrical flight instruments (EFIS, autopilot, etc) that have the capability of providing quality flight info. Sam Buchanan > > > Bruce Gray wrote: >> Now that's scary! > > If I was flying in IMC with my dual-glass plane and there was a > conflict, I wouldn't have to worry about turning on the autopilot. > > It would have already been on since entering IMC. > > With the new solid-state coupled autopilots, I don't see a need for much > hand flying in IMC. Seems the FAA has *finally* come around to a similar > position as it pertains to IFR training and their new emphasis on > teaching autopilot operation. > > Sam Buchanan > > =========================== >> >> >> >> Bruce >> www.glasair.org >> >> >> -----Original Message----- > >> Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid >> IMC >> and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and > the >> other >> says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? >> >> >> Bruce >> www.glasair.org >> >> You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT > EFIS >> and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. >> >> Russ Daves >> N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 27, 2007
From: Charles Reiche <charlieray(at)optonline.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
MessageThe G1000 beechcraft have no vacuum driven instruments. You have a battery backup attitude indicator and airspeed and altimeter. ----- Original Message ----- From: Bruce Gray To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:45 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Have any of you thought of the alternator frying and in the process burning out the battery contactor and opps, no electro wizzies. Flip all the dead switches you want, no joy. Is there a reason why every certified installation of an EFIS in a GA airplane has a Vacuum Attitude Indicator, ASI, and Altimeter as the backup? Wait you say, I have a duel bus/battery power distribution system and that won't happen. It's happened. The last one I read about was an Airbus loosing all, and I mean ALL, power in the the cockpit. Total dark panel. The only thing left was that little 2.5 inch backup Jet Attitude Gyro and a flashlight. (as an asside, what's the reboot time for your EFIS systems if you have an electrical hiccup? Can you fly without it for 3-4 minutes, IMC, in turblance?) Or, you're flying along in solid IMC and the cockpit starts filling with smoke. Smells like an electrical fire but no breakers have tripped. What do you do? Kill the master switch? But you need the EFIS to keep the right side up. Keep the electrical system operable and hope you can get on the ground before something more serious happens? Think these equipment decisions through with care, your life is dependant on it. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary instrument during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR training. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Back in my Aero Engineering school days we had to study a subject called Human Factors Engineering or man/machine interfacing. Most pilots like to flip a switch/pull a knob and then monitor the results of that action, in real time, as the desired or commanded action takes place. Move the stick and watch the ADI change. This is called closed loop control, the pilot is in the control loop and can reverse or correct any undesired results. With your autopilot controlled recovery and a dark EFIS, the pilot is out of the control loop. While the results might be successful, the time waiting for the end of the process, to me at least would be terrifying. With a redundant ADI, ASI, and altimeter the pilot would at least be able to monitor the aircrafts return to controlled flight. It's all a matter of what your comfortable with, I guess. Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with me. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary instrument during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR training. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bret Smith" <smithhb(at)tds.net>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
>Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with me.< Whatever lightens your "worry bucket"... Like Sam said, my A/P is ALWAYS on in solid IMC. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR Back in my Aero Engineering school days we had to study a subject called Human Factors Engineering or man/machine interfacing. Most pilots like to flip a switch/pull a knob and then monitor the results of that action, in real time, as the desired or commanded action takes place. Move the stick and watch the ADI change. This is called closed loop control, the pilot is in the control loop and can reverse or correct any undesired results. With your autopilot controlled recovery and a dark EFIS, the pilot is out of the control loop. While the results might be successful, the time waiting for the end of the process, to me at least would be terrifying. With a redundant ADI, ASI, and altimeter the pilot would at least be able to monitor the aircrafts return to controlled flight. It's all a matter of what your comfortable with, I guess. Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with me. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary instrument during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR training. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics.com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Bruce Gray" <Bruce(at)glasair.org>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 27, 2007
Surprisingly, so is mine. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:30 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR >Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with me.< Whatever lightens your "worry bucket"... Like Sam said, my A/P is ALWAYS on in solid IMC. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:51 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR Back in my Aero Engineering school days we had to study a subject called Human Factors Engineering or man/machine interfacing. Most pilots like to flip a switch/pull a knob and then monitor the results of that action, in real time, as the desired or commanded action takes place. Move the stick and watch the ADI change. This is called closed loop control, the pilot is in the control loop and can reverse or correct any undesired results. With your autopilot controlled recovery and a dark EFIS, the pilot is out of the control loop. While the results might be successful, the time waiting for the end of the process, to me at least would be terrifying. With a redundant ADI, ASI, and altimeter the pilot would at least be able to monitor the aircrafts return to controlled flight. It's all a matter of what your comfortable with, I guess. Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with me. Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bret Smith Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR Bruce, why is that scary? The autopilot is considered a primary instrument during single-pilot IFR. This is also a procedure taught during IFR training. Bret Smith RV-9A (91314) Mineral Bluff, GA www.FlightInnovations.com _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bruce Gray Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 10:33 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Now that's scary! Bruce www.glasair.org -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Russell Daves Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 8:31 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Nice panel. I have a stupid question, if you're flying along in solid IMC and all of a sudden one of your EFIS says you're turning right and the other says you're turning left, on which one do you bet your life? Bruce www.glasair.org You immediately turn on your autopilot which is independent of the GRT EFIS and after the autopilot levels the airplane you turn off the bad EFIS. Russ Daves N710RV - First Flight 7/28/06 href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com href="http://www.matronics.com/Navigator?RV-List">http://www.matronics. com/N avigator?RV-List href="http://forums.matronics.com">http://forums.matronics.com ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR
From: Doug Gray <dgra1233(at)bigpond.net.au>
Date: Feb 28, 2007
Question: Do the current EFIS systems for experimental aircraft have true gyros (laser/micro machine perhaps) or do they resolve attitude from accelerometers? If they use accelerometers how is the acceleration of the aircraft itself cancelled? Doug Gray > > Matt, you know that won't replace gyro's, right? > > So, where are you taking this - compass, ball and airspeed? > > > On 2/27/07, Matt Jurotich wrote: > > > > I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the > > ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet. > > > > Matthew M. Jurotich > > > > e-mail mail to: > > phone : 301-286-5919 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Kevin Horton <khorton01(at)rogers.com>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 28, 2007
The current low cost EFIS systems use solid state accelerometers and rate sensors. Each vendor has their own algorithm. The Dynon system, which I have, uses the airspeed signal to provide a correction for the effect of acceleration on the calculated pitch attitude. It apparently works quite well, and the attitude is apparently usable, but degraded, even without an airspeed input. Kevin Horton On 28 Feb 2007, at 02:56, Doug Gray wrote: > > Question: Do the current EFIS systems for experimental aircraft have > true gyros (laser/micro machine perhaps) or do they resolve attitude > from accelerometers? > > If they use accelerometers how is the acceleration of the aircraft > itself cancelled? > > Doug Gray > >> >> Matt, you know that won't replace gyro's, right? >> >> So, where are you taking this - compass, ball and airspeed? >> >> >> On 2/27/07, Matt Jurotich wrote: >>> >>> >>> I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the >>> ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet. >>> >>> Matthew M. Jurotich >>> >>> e-mail mail to: >>> phone : 301-286-5919 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2007
From: Bob <panamared5(at)brier.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
At 03:04 PM 2/27/07, you wrote: >But I have *never* had an automobile >alternator fail, nor the associated equipment The best car I have ever owned, and I mean that, I had to replace the alternator three times (in 300,000 miles). I have also had to replace alternators in other cars and I had to replace the alternator in my RV at 60 hours. Food for thought! Bob ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Feb 28, 2007
From: linn Walters <pitts_pilot(at)bellsouth.net>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Bob wrote: > > At 03:04 PM 2/27/07, you wrote: > >> But I have *never* had an automobile >> alternator fail, nor the associated equipment > > > The best car I have ever owned, and I mean that, I had to replace the > alternator three times (in 300,000 miles). I have also had to replace > alternators in other cars and I had to replace the alternator in my RV > at 60 hours. > > Food for thought! Wow Bob, you surely get your money's worth out of your car!!! If you got an average of 40MPH (the numbers are easier for an engineer!), that's 7500 hours of driving! If the fourth one failed right now, you got (on average) 1875 hours per alternator. Not too shabby. Now for the failure modes ...... brushes wear, diodes fail, and bearings wear out. With the exception of the brushes, the other failure modes are easily detected ..... whine in the headsets (diodes) and slipping alternator belt (bearings) before anything gets serious. You might detect current fluctuations before the brushes give out entirely, but you have to be looking at the gauge when it happens. Alternators rarely croak because the windings fried. Regulators (the mechanical ones) used to be a weak spot, but the solid state ones are pretty reliable. The biggest difference between your airplane and a car is the load. Your car alternator is sized close to the max load (which can be really high .... 50 amps isn't uncommon with all the stuff turned on) and your airplane probably only draws ...... around 20 amps would be my guess ..... so there's less strain on the system. As avionics gets more efficient things get even better. More food on the table! Linn > > > Bob > > ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "Ed Holyoke" <bicyclop(at)pacbell.net>
Subject: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 28, 2007
Just as another data point, the airspeed fitting broke off the back of our D-10 on the first day of a cross country trip. I pinched the line leading from the backup steam gauge and disabled the airspeed display on the Dynon so as to continue the trip. After some hours, (probably 20 or 30), I noticed that the Dynon had the leans. It seemed fairly accurate when level, but lagged in turns and didn't want to return to level. The factory told me that there is a file that is written to continuously that uses airspeed as a parameter that was probably screwed up over time by having no airspeed input. I wiped the firmware and re-installed, having first restored the pitot line of course, and it is now cool with no problems for many hours. I definitely wouldn't trust it in clouds without pitot. Pax, Ed Holyoke -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Horton Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 2:30 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFR Glass for IFR The current low cost EFIS systems use solid state accelerometers and rate sensors. Each vendor has their own algorithm. The Dynon system, which I have, uses the airspeed signal to provide a correction for the effect of acceleration on the calculated pitch attitude. It apparently works quite well, and the attitude is apparently usable, but degraded, even without an airspeed input. Kevin Horton On 28 Feb 2007, at 02:56, Doug Gray wrote: > > Question: Do the current EFIS systems for experimental aircraft have > true gyros (laser/micro machine perhaps) or do they resolve attitude > from accelerometers? > > If they use accelerometers how is the acceleration of the aircraft > itself cancelled? > > Doug Gray > >> >> Matt, you know that won't replace gyro's, right? >> >> So, where are you taking this - compass, ball and airspeed? >> >> >> On 2/27/07, Matt Jurotich wrote: >>> >>> >>> I am adding a skid slip indicator just below the Garmin 480 as the >>> ultimate backup to the BMA and Dynon. Not flying yet. >>> >>> Matthew M. Jurotich >>> >>> e-mail mail to: >>> phone : 301-286-5919 >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >> ________________________________________________________________________________
From: Jerry2DT(at)aol.com
Date: Feb 28, 2007
Subject: Sorcerer?
Folks, I hate to display ignorance, but what in heck is a "Sorcerer"? Is this a joke and I don't get it or?? BTW, because of this conversation about loss of electrics and such, during my flyoff period I will flip the master off, and then expect to see my Dynon telling me it's running on internal batt power, and same with Garmin 296. Then I'll try my handheld comm and see if it's possible to communicate... Should be able to aviate, navigate, communicate... VFR of course... Also, wondering if anyone has thought of a dedicated back up batt just for the A/P?? Jerry Cochran N18XP Close...Very close.. Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT


**************************************
AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at http://www.aol.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
Date: Feb 28, 2007
From: "Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta)" <mike.stewart(at)us.ibm.com>
OK... Done. Mike PS. Feel free to do this anytime yourself on any post you read. Reply back and take it out at your discretion. Too bad we cant go back and put it in though:) waaayyy to many posters do not understand the concept. -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Terry Watson Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 11:39 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR Mike, Why would you put "DNA" on this? This is important stuff. Please reconsider. Terry -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stewart, Michael (ISS Atlanta) Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 3:44 AM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR As a survivor of a dual efis (GRT & BMA), single lockup, IMC, 2000'agl vectors to final approach, it was the a/p that broke the tie for me. One said left turn, one said right. My GRT locked up frozen on the efis screen in a turn. I was fortunate to have noticed the discrepancy. Disorientation set in in about 1 second as soon as it was noticed. You cant imagine the immediate brain confusion when the 2 EFIS's are not agreeing in a big way. Turn on the a/p and sort it out. A/p says BMA wins, and thats what I flew to the runway. It resulted in an emergency firmware update the following day by GRT. Turns out the EFIS did not like a GPS approach with no assigned runway in the database. Was a software bug. Would have been easier if the screen had just gone blank, but your don't get to choose your fail modes. Also as a side note, had I of had 2 GRT's, they both would have locked up and I'd of been on A/P alone. That would not have been fun, but doable. It can happen. I was happy that day I chose 2 different EFIS's. Probably saved my butt. Also, as was asked earlier on this thread, I have tested my Trio A/P in many unusual attitudes, and it will right me from the most ridicules attitudes every time. Mike ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Feb 28, 2007
> >Engaging the autopilot and hoping for the best just doesn't cut it with me.< > > Whatever lightens your "worry bucket"... Like Sam said, my A/P is ALWAYS on in solid IMC. > There is the key. Keep the A/P on. With my Trio autopilot connected to a GNS 430, I question whether a GNS 430 failure would cause the plane to depart belly to earth flight. Will that happen if one of your EFISs die completely or suffer another undiscovered bug like happened to Mike? Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Sorcerer?
Date: Feb 28, 2007
From: "Lloyd, Daniel R." <LloydDR(at)wernerco.com>
It is the high end Tru-trak AP http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ttfsproducts.html#SORCERER does just about everything and warm things up in the microwave oven for you, all with its hands tied behind its back!! Dan N289DT _____ From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jerry2DT(at)aol.com Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 12:42 PM Subject: RV-List: Sorcerer? Folks, I hate to display ignorance, but what in heck is a "Sorcerer"? Is this a joke and I don't get it or?? BTW, because of this conversation about loss of electrics and such, during my flyoff period I will flip the master off, and then expect to see my Dynon telling me it's running on internal batt power, and same with Garmin 296. Then I'll try my handheld comm and see if it's possible to communicate... Should be able to aviate, navigate, communicate... VFR of course... Also, wondering if anyone has thought of a dedicated back up batt just for the A/P?? Jerry Cochran N18XP Close...Very close.. Behalf Of Lloyd, Daniel R. Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2007 12:01 PM To: rv-list(at)matronics.com Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR This is also how I have it setup in my plane, if there is a conflict between the Chelton and the Dynon, Engage the sorcerer and turn off the offending equipment. Dan N289DT _____ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at <57x4311227241x4298082137/aol?redir=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eaol%2Ecom" target="_blank">AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 01, 2007
From: "Bill Boyd" <sportav8r(at)gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Glass for IFRGlass for IFR
That would be a good question to put to GRT. I have yet to purchase my system. These posts, and even the thread title, could stand a little trimming. On 3/1/07, Bruce Gray wrote: > > At what level of the data stream are you going to cross check? Most I've > seen only cross check the AHRS output. That still leaves all that > questionable code up to the display screen. > > Bruce > www.glasair.org > > > -----Original Message----- **pages and pages snipped** ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR
Date: Mar 01, 2007
> Why not vacuum? Weight, cost, lousy reliability come to mind. My > personal belief is you would typically overhaul (or experience > failure) of a vacuum system several times over before your properly > designed and installed electrical whizzies hiccoughed for the first > time. > > IMO, of course. I just ordered a new vacuum pump. Failed after about 1000 hours. Mike's post (thanks Mike) shows that coding for these EFIS systems may be less than rigorous. We recently saw a forced landing in less than ideal terrain apparently because of a software problem in a experimental class mag system. It seems that if you are really going to fly in IFR conditions then you might want to go up with a safety pilot and see how well you do if certain systems go south. Example, your only EFIS dies. Can you safely fly and make an instrument approach using everything left that is available to you? It might be useful if suggested system components be identified that provides adequate redundancy in the event of a major comnponent failure. The groupings may be as follows: 1) EFIS, all electric 2) EFIS, vacuum 3) No EFIS, all electric 4) No EFIS, vacuum I would fall into Group 4. Vacuum Horizon and DG, Typical airspeed, altimeter, rate of climb plus electric T&B. Trio Ez-pilot autopilot. Of course I have not finished my instrument rating. Signed off to take the practical but need to fix the vacuum system. Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: "John Jessen" <jjessen(at)rcn.com>
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Mar 01, 2007
Some certified's, at least the Columbia, are using two independent electric systems. I would think the battery backup EFIS systems out there would also qualify as independent. You could certainly go vacuum as backup. Nothing wrong with that. Same as going EI on top and standard mag on the bottom. The chance of an electric and a vacuum failure at the same time would be minimal, I would venture. No matter what, one should, as suggested, get an instructor and go fly in IMC with systems being taken off line in various ways to see what it would be like and practice recovering, troubleshooting. Nothing like practice. John Jessen (and this thread is just great!) -----Original Message----- From: owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com [mailto:owner-rv-list-server(at)matronics.com] On Behalf Of ronlee(at)pcisys.net Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2007 9:13 AM Subject: Re: RV-List: Glass for IFR > Why not vacuum? Weight, cost, lousy reliability come to mind. My > personal belief is you would typically overhaul (or experience > failure) of a vacuum system several times over before your properly > designed and installed electrical whizzies hiccoughed for the first > time. > > IMO, of course. I just ordered a new vacuum pump. Failed after about 1000 hours. Mike's post (thanks Mike) shows that coding for these EFIS systems may be less than rigorous. We recently saw a forced landing in less than ideal terrain apparently because of a software problem in a experimental class mag system. It seems that if you are really going to fly in IFR conditions then you might want to go up with a safety pilot and see how well you do if certain systems go south. Example, your only EFIS dies. Can you safely fly and make an instrument approach using everything left that is available to you? It might be useful if suggested system components be identified that provides adequate redundancy in the event of a major comnponent failure. The groupings may be as follows: 1) EFIS, all electric 2) EFIS, vacuum 3) No EFIS, all electric 4) No EFIS, vacuum I would fall into Group 4. Vacuum Horizon and DG, Typical airspeed, altimeter, rate of climb plus electric T&B. Trio Ez-pilot autopilot. Of course I have not finished my instrument rating. Signed off to take the practical but need to fix the vacuum system. Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________________________________________________________
From: ronlee(at)pcisys.net
Subject: Glass for IFR
Date: Mar 01, 2007
No matter what, one should, as suggested, get an instructor and go fly in IMC with systems being taken off line in various ways to see what it would be like and practice recovering, troubleshooting. > Nothing like practice. > Actually John, I would not go true IMC. Use foggles or other devices. That way if you start to enter a spiral the instructor can more easily recover or have you remove the foggles. As someone mentioned, having an EFIS die with only a T&B (?) backup available may be just a matter of time before you lose controlled flight. Assumes no autopilot of course. Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________________________________________________________
Subject: Re: Glass for IFR
Date: Mar 01, 2007
From: jhnstniii(at)AOL.COM
Have been following this post with interest. Our plan from the beginning was to fly IFR. Here's what we did: Vacuum attitude indicator Backup electric attitude indicator Vacuum DG Electric T & B (S-Tec 30 with altitude hold) Garmin 430 We plan to get a good Garmin handheld like the 496 and mount that, too, which can give you a self-contained virtual panel on internal battery. Plus, we plan to replace the vacuum pump and the alternator at regular intervals, probably every 500 hours (yep, buy new ones). So far we haven't flown any actual IFR because we are still flight testing. Just our .02 LeRoy Johnston and David White - Ohio - RV-6 Esperanza 65 hours flying. -----Original Message----- From: ronlee(at)pcisys.net Sent: Thu, 1 Mar 2007 2:54 PM Subject: RE: RV-List: Glass for IFR No matter what, one should, as suggested, get an instructor and go fly in IMC with systems being taken off line in various ways to see what it would be like and practice recovering, troubleshooting. > Nothing like practice. > Actually John, I would not go true IMC. Use foggles or other devices. That way if you start to enter a spiral the instructor can more easily recover or have you remove the foggles. As someone mentioned, having an EFIS die with only a T&B (?) backup available may be just a matter of time before you lose controlled flight. Assumes no autopilot of course. Ron Lee --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ ________________________________________________________________________ AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at AOL.com. ________________________________________________________________________________
Date: Mar 02, 2007
From: <wstucklen1(at)cox.net>
Subject: Traveling
Hi All, Im in Silver City, NM on a business trip, and will have Saturday free 3/3/07). If theres anyone in the area that would like a fellow builder see their project, or needs some electrical help, send me an email with your contact information


February 11, 2007 - March 02, 2007

RV-Archive.digest.vol-sp